Australia has one of the lowest developed country on-line purchasing percentage of population figures. On-line purchases can take anywhere from one day (if you live in the same major city as the store and you buy in the morning) to four weeks to deliver - - most average seven to ten days. We're a big place with few people and in need of a decent fast freight transport system.
Then when you add in most Aussies want to be able to look at the physical product before they buy, you can see why we tend to buy from the brick and mortar stores - heck many of the on-line sales come about after the people have looked at a demo item in the local store or one a friend has before they go near the store's on-line shop.
Discussion on:
View:
Show:
that I have so many options for purchasing tech products.
By the way, we Americans want to get our hands on things before we buy them too. If you try it out at the store and then buy it online, it's called "showrooming". Brick and mortar stores hate it.
By the way, we Americans want to get our hands on things before we buy them too. If you try it out at the store and then buy it online, it's called "showrooming". Brick and mortar stores hate it.
The Microsoft Store has Windows Home Premium for $119 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Home-Premium/productID.235488300/vip.true), Windows 7 Professional starting at $199 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Professional/productID.216645600/vip.true), and Windows 7 Ultimate starting at $219 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Ultimate/productID.216647200/vip.true).
Use the above Windows 7 titles if you have an older PC and want to use a really good operating system on it. However, if you have a kick-arse PC just get Windows 8 Pro for $69 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbpage.Windows_8_Pro) and join us in the future!!
Use the above Windows 7 titles if you have an older PC and want to use a really good operating system on it. However, if you have a kick-arse PC just get Windows 8 Pro for $69 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbpage.Windows_8_Pro) and join us in the future!!
And the OS cost me nothing.
Don't go to the Windows Store. Go straight to MS and get your free upgrade for $39.99 and a free Features upgrade for Windows Media Center.
That would be if I wanted to move from Zorin OS to Windows 8 (which I don't see, by the way, as an "upgrade").
But the subject here is the option of downgrading from 8 to 7.
But the subject here is the option of downgrading from 8 to 7.
The negative comments about Windows 8 above were obviously made by people with substantial computer knowledge about the problems of Windows 8 that affect them, reasonably enough because those are the kind of people that are going to participate in this kind of forum.
But there is another whole class of people that Microsoft has thumbed their nose at with this recent example of ego and greed: The less computer literate users. These are people that use email, word processing, web browsing, an image viewer and not much else. They may have great difficulty in learning a new way to access the few things that they do on a computer and learning a new way will do absolutely nothing to improve their experience.
The specific people I am thinking of are my 95 year old father and his wife. They use their computers quite a bit and reasonably enough decided to replace one of their aging XP computers. Little did they know that they were part of the market segment that Microsoft didn't give a crap about any more and were shocked to find out that getting a new computer meant having to navigate a maze of new ideas about the GUI without any apparent justification other than Microsoft wanted to force it on them. Eventually they returned the machine and found a Windows 7 machine to replace their old XP machine. I wish I could tell you that they had moved to Linux. I am now firmly in the anti-Microsoft camp. I won't buy a Microsoft driven smart phone or the surface tablet. I feel lucky there are alternatives, something that Microsoft might consider the next time it decides to use its near desktop OS monopoly as a tool to cram unwanted changes onto the users.
But there is another whole class of people that Microsoft has thumbed their nose at with this recent example of ego and greed: The less computer literate users. These are people that use email, word processing, web browsing, an image viewer and not much else. They may have great difficulty in learning a new way to access the few things that they do on a computer and learning a new way will do absolutely nothing to improve their experience.
The specific people I am thinking of are my 95 year old father and his wife. They use their computers quite a bit and reasonably enough decided to replace one of their aging XP computers. Little did they know that they were part of the market segment that Microsoft didn't give a crap about any more and were shocked to find out that getting a new computer meant having to navigate a maze of new ideas about the GUI without any apparent justification other than Microsoft wanted to force it on them. Eventually they returned the machine and found a Windows 7 machine to replace their old XP machine. I wish I could tell you that they had moved to Linux. I am now firmly in the anti-Microsoft camp. I won't buy a Microsoft driven smart phone or the surface tablet. I feel lucky there are alternatives, something that Microsoft might consider the next time it decides to use its near desktop OS monopoly as a tool to cram unwanted changes onto the users.
it seems to me the class of users you're discussing might find W8 easier. Of the applications you mention (email, word processing, web browsing, an image viewer), only word processing doesn't have a Start screen tile out of the box.
I just wish I could stop thinking of W8 in terms of previous versions of Windows. It would make my learning curve less steep if I didn't have a couple of decades of habits.
Few existing business programs are Metro-compatible, and I find the constant shifting between Metro and the Classic desktop quite jarring. However, users you describe can do most of the tasks you mention in Metro, and would rarely have to see the Classic desktop.
I just wish I could stop thinking of W8 in terms of previous versions of Windows. It would make my learning curve less steep if I didn't have a couple of decades of habits.
Few existing business programs are Metro-compatible, and I find the constant shifting between Metro and the Classic desktop quite jarring. However, users you describe can do most of the tasks you mention in Metro, and would rarely have to see the Classic desktop.
No, users can't do most of the tasks in Metro (Modern). The default tiles, or whatever the term is, link to the Modern apps that aren't the same as what you find on the Classic desktop (such as Internet Explorer - two very different versions). That 95 year-old will feel like Alice (in Wonderland) when he "takes a bite" from the Metro Internet Explorer, and then takes a bite from the Classic desktop Internet Explorer.
You can't stop thinking of Win8 in terms of previous versions of Windows. You shouldn't have to. There is a concept called look and feel. A well-designed system should have and customers expect a certain look and feel. What Microsoft seems to be telling us on each new version of a product they put out is "We didn't know crap about how to display and organize the interface before, but we got it right now." Then, out comes the next version of Windows or Office, menu items, ribbons, tiles, icons, or whatever get moved, changed, or deleted, renamed or some other obfuscation to leave a user befuddled on where to look for a possibly non-existant feature.
I think Microsoft did a brilliant job of establishing an excellent look and feel with Windows 95. The control panel was the most logical of any other version of Windows. Now, one of the entries in the control panel is something like "Printers and Other Devices". That's real informative. If you have something physically attached to a computer, that would be a printer or other device. Right-click on a printer and two of the choices to select are "properties" and "printer properties".
Back to Palmetto_CharlieSpencer's comment that you rarely have to see the Classic Desktop. That is true if you can figure out how to get the classic applications over to the Metro (Modern) start menu. It can be done, but I think most casual users would have to struggle to try to find the process and many of those would still not succeed.
Fortunately, there is a great deal of business-essential software that will not work in Windows 8, so I will have some breathing-room before I have to try to assist users with Windows 8. Hopefully by the time software developers program for and certify Windows 8 for their products, users will have already purchased a Windows 8 computer at home and had their relatives/friends walk them through the muck called an interface on this new OS, which appears to be an otherwise very fast and solid operating system.
You can't stop thinking of Win8 in terms of previous versions of Windows. You shouldn't have to. There is a concept called look and feel. A well-designed system should have and customers expect a certain look and feel. What Microsoft seems to be telling us on each new version of a product they put out is "We didn't know crap about how to display and organize the interface before, but we got it right now." Then, out comes the next version of Windows or Office, menu items, ribbons, tiles, icons, or whatever get moved, changed, or deleted, renamed or some other obfuscation to leave a user befuddled on where to look for a possibly non-existant feature.
I think Microsoft did a brilliant job of establishing an excellent look and feel with Windows 95. The control panel was the most logical of any other version of Windows. Now, one of the entries in the control panel is something like "Printers and Other Devices". That's real informative. If you have something physically attached to a computer, that would be a printer or other device. Right-click on a printer and two of the choices to select are "properties" and "printer properties".
Back to Palmetto_CharlieSpencer's comment that you rarely have to see the Classic Desktop. That is true if you can figure out how to get the classic applications over to the Metro (Modern) start menu. It can be done, but I think most casual users would have to struggle to try to find the process and many of those would still not succeed.
Fortunately, there is a great deal of business-essential software that will not work in Windows 8, so I will have some breathing-room before I have to try to assist users with Windows 8. Hopefully by the time software developers program for and certify Windows 8 for their products, users will have already purchased a Windows 8 computer at home and had their relatives/friends walk them through the muck called an interface on this new OS, which appears to be an otherwise very fast and solid operating system.
1. While out of the box, the Start Menu points to a "Modern Style" version of Internet Explorer. It is easy to change the default IE to the desktop version. From then on, click the IE tile opens the desktop version of IE.
2. When Windows 95 came out there were many people who disagreed with you that Microsoft did a "brilliant job of establishing an excellent look and feel ". They wanted to stick with their familiar Windows 3.1. How soon we forget...
3. I disagree that each new Windows OS says, "We didn't know crap about how to display and organize the interface before, but we got it right now." If that was the case, why was Classic view available in Windows XP and why is the Desktop View still available in Windows 8? There are a ton of links to the Microsoft Blog describing the evolution of the Windows GUI. You might find it informative.
4. The old way Windows presented printers was simple but installing printers was often not. Ever since Vista, the OS automatically finds and installs the vast majority of printers for you as soon as you plug them in directly or to your network. How easy is that?
2. When Windows 95 came out there were many people who disagreed with you that Microsoft did a "brilliant job of establishing an excellent look and feel ". They wanted to stick with their familiar Windows 3.1. How soon we forget...
3. I disagree that each new Windows OS says, "We didn't know crap about how to display and organize the interface before, but we got it right now." If that was the case, why was Classic view available in Windows XP and why is the Desktop View still available in Windows 8? There are a ton of links to the Microsoft Blog describing the evolution of the Windows GUI. You might find it informative.
4. The old way Windows presented printers was simple but installing printers was often not. Ever since Vista, the OS automatically finds and installs the vast majority of printers for you as soon as you plug them in directly or to your network. How easy is that?
Just download for free Win8Startbutton and install. Some KB and you can have back the windows xp, vista or 7 start button with lot of customization. simple and easy.
Or install Windows 7. Hmmm, that's an option. (It's an option for those who don't like Windows 8.)
Disclaimer: you don't have to reply to my comment. It's just my opinion and doesn't require anyone else validation.
Disclaimer: you don't have to reply to my comment. It's just my opinion and doesn't require anyone else validation.
The cool thing about the digital realm is that "copies" of software don't require fabrication of tangible products. It's a concept lost on you baby boomers.
There was no "digital realm". Think about what that means.
And I wonder what you'll discover wasn't there while you are growing up...
And I wonder what you'll discover wasn't there while you are growing up...
he now lives in was created by baby boomers - he thinks you can't know something unless you grew up in it. Which doesn't explain how our generation invented all this stuff or had the dreams about it to put in the effort to invent it.
The Microsoft Store has Windows Home Premium for $119 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Home-Premium/productID.235488300/vip.true), Windows 7 Professional starting at $199 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Professional/productID.216645600/vip.true), and Windows 7 Ultimate starting at $219 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Ultimate/productID.216647200/vip.true).
Update: one person didn't like the links to purchase Windows 7 directly from Microsoft. Weird.
Update: one person didn't like the links to purchase Windows 7 directly from Microsoft. Weird.
The concept is NOT lost on his generation. You know better than to interpret the behavior of one as indicative of all.
when his generation gets insulted with an inane generalization.
No. I don't believe it. I know plenty of kids who are polite and respectful.
No. I don't believe it. I know plenty of kids who are polite and respectful.
maybe he'll take the hint from you. He certainly hasn't picked up on it from anyone else. He's had this ageist obsession since he first appeared.
I'll give him credit; he's motivated this old person to finally explore something new. Not Windows 8, mind you; but how the TR 'Ignore' feature works.
I'll give him credit; he's motivated this old person to finally explore something new. Not Windows 8, mind you; but how the TR 'Ignore' feature works.
here's how I checked
www.microsoft. com - - click on the hot link 'Store' -- click on the hot link 'Windows'
and you get a full page ad about Win 8 with a line 'Like Windows 7 only better' with all the prices.
Hover over the hot link on the left that says 'Windows' and you get the choice of two links "Windows 8' or 'Windows 8 Pro' - nowhere in the store is there Windows 7 available for sale or download.
www.microsoft. com - - click on the hot link 'Store' -- click on the hot link 'Windows'
and you get a full page ad about Win 8 with a line 'Like Windows 7 only better' with all the prices.
Hover over the hot link on the left that says 'Windows' and you get the choice of two links "Windows 8' or 'Windows 8 Pro' - nowhere in the store is there Windows 7 available for sale or download.
Dude, you just lied again to JJFitz.
Don't worry, JJ. I left links to three flavors of Windows 7 sold by The Microsoft Store. Everyone likes a good sideshow attraction.
Don't worry, JJ. I left links to three flavors of Windows 7 sold by The Microsoft Store. Everyone likes a good sideshow attraction.
if you're so sure the link you've found still works, go spend some money buying a copy. it's not where people will find it during a usual check of the store and it may well be an old link for stuff they don't sell any more - can't tell until you fork over the cash for it.
This discussion has been taken to The Water Cooler / View thread
But that download also includes a "free" Torch Browser. Who in the heck wants to install that kind of unknown/unproven bonusware on their new laptop?
Proceed with caution...
Proceed with caution...
...and it looks like what we have come to know from Win7 (95% close).
It's a pity people are afraid of change and I can only imagine what the same people would have commented if a few years ago you wrote similar articles about how people could get rid of the Start Button and the Taskbar on Windows 95 to keep their Windows 3.1 look and feel on their PC's.
Fact is change is eminent, and it's people like you who help those reluctant to change to slowly adapt to these changes. I don't believe you intention is to re-brand Windows 8 with a Windows 7 costume, but to assist those who are finding it difficult to find their way around with some of the passages and doors changed, but eventually everyone will get used to the change as well as seeing the need or purpose for such change.
Keep up the good work Greg, tips like this are certainly helping a lot in my environment. I think deploying Windows 8 will happen a lot faster and with less pain from our clients since we will have workarounds for those people struggling to find their way around!
Fact is change is eminent, and it's people like you who help those reluctant to change to slowly adapt to these changes. I don't believe you intention is to re-brand Windows 8 with a Windows 7 costume, but to assist those who are finding it difficult to find their way around with some of the passages and doors changed, but eventually everyone will get used to the change as well as seeing the need or purpose for such change.
Keep up the good work Greg, tips like this are certainly helping a lot in my environment. I think deploying Windows 8 will happen a lot faster and with less pain from our clients since we will have workarounds for those people struggling to find their way around!
It's much easier for people to accept change when they know why the changes are being made. That was certainly my problem with W8; I didn't get why the GUI change was necessary.
Microsoft's advertising for W8 shows only Metro apps, mostly on tablets or touchscreens, The don't show people using traditional apps, even though they'll run on W8. It don't show people using mice or keyboards, even thought they'll work just the same with W8. They don't show anyone doing any actual work.
In short, the advertising doesn't show the backwards compatibility. That makes people (and businesses) wonder why they should want an OS that -apparently- doesn't do what they want, or a computer with that OS on it.
Microsoft's advertising for W8 shows only Metro apps, mostly on tablets or touchscreens, The don't show people using traditional apps, even though they'll run on W8. It don't show people using mice or keyboards, even thought they'll work just the same with W8. They don't show anyone doing any actual work.
In short, the advertising doesn't show the backwards compatibility. That makes people (and businesses) wonder why they should want an OS that -apparently- doesn't do what they want, or a computer with that OS on it.
Their reason for change is business sense. If they are to survive, they have to adapt. And that's what Windows 8 is all about. But again changes such as omitting the Start Menu on the Desktop App, were informed by information collected when people use their pc's whilst connected to the net. More and more users are abandoning the Start Menu. Microsoft noticed that fewer and fewer were made on the Start Button!
the people are not afraid of change per se, but pissed off that their use of the desktop computers have been downgraded in performance due to Microsoft forcing a change that's unsuited to desktop usage onto the system. Win 8 is great for smartphones and small touch screen tablets but useless on large screen monitors on desktops. If they had the dual interface set up similar to what they did with XP so people had a choice it would have been a great idea, that way those who wanted the touch screen for their touch sensitive devices could have it and those that didn't could set the default to the other. All the complaints I've seen have been about how useless it is on a desktop system.
The other screw up was in NOT having a very simple and quick way to make significant adjustments to the icon sizes as they are huge on a large monitor. You need big for the small screen phones and tablets, but not for the desktop monitors.
Joysticks instead of steering wheels and throttles work well on jet fighters, but that doesn't mean we should have them on out normal cars - yet the claim this change is good for all says we should now switch car controls to match jet fighters as both are forms of transport.
The other screw up was in NOT having a very simple and quick way to make significant adjustments to the icon sizes as they are huge on a large monitor. You need big for the small screen phones and tablets, but not for the desktop monitors.
Joysticks instead of steering wheels and throttles work well on jet fighters, but that doesn't mean we should have them on out normal cars - yet the claim this change is good for all says we should now switch car controls to match jet fighters as both are forms of transport.
A decade ago Sony could have added a MP3 player to their Walkman and Discman product lines. They couldn't figure out how to handle this format intangibility factor not plaging tapes and discs. Sony heads couldn't figure out how consumers were going to get music digitally. There was probably a young guy (let's call him Akira) who explained they could control the music distribution AND the vehicle to enjoy it. But the old cats couldn't understand. That's why Sony isn't a real player now. HTC and Samsung are more relevant and that's by accident. Don't be a Sony.
I'm happy you agree Windows 8 is design for touch, so if you don't have a multi touch touchpad, a touch mouse or a touch screen, Microsoft is happy to give you or your enterprise support on Windows 7 until 2020!
here's how I checked it out and found they do NOT sell Win 7 anymore
www.microsoft. com - - click on the hot link 'Store' -- click on the hot link 'Windows'
and you get a full page ad about Win 8 with a line 'Like Windows 7 only better' with all the prices.
Hover over the hot link on the left that says 'Windows' and you get the choice of two links "Windows 8' or 'Windows 8 Pro' - nowhere in the store is there Windows 7 available for sale or download.
www.microsoft. com - - click on the hot link 'Store' -- click on the hot link 'Windows'
and you get a full page ad about Win 8 with a line 'Like Windows 7 only better' with all the prices.
Hover over the hot link on the left that says 'Windows' and you get the choice of two links "Windows 8' or 'Windows 8 Pro' - nowhere in the store is there Windows 7 available for sale or download.
The Microsoft Store has Windows Home Premium for $119 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Home-Premium/productID.235488300/vip.true), Windows 7 Professional starting at $199 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Professional/productID.216645600/vip.true), and Windows 7 Ultimate starting at $219 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Ultimate/productID.216647200/vip.true).
Use the above Windows 7 titles if you have an older PC and want to use a really good operating system on it.
Use the above Windows 7 titles if you have an older PC and want to use a really good operating system on it.
No need to worry about that, we still have Windows 7 which Microsoft will still support for the next couple of years. Pity they had to release Windows 8 as a way of catching up with the tablet market and didn't necessarily want to abandon their Windows as you know it to concentrate on the touch market!
FYI, I recall it will be supported through at least 2018. XP is still supported through sometime in '14, although i don't recall exactly when.
What a lot of people forget is that just because MS stops supporting an OS doesn't mean it will automatically stop working.
The other side of that coin is that long before MS drops support, hardware vendors will stop writing drivers. I'm already having trouble finding XP drivers for some new hardware, especially systems released in the last couple of years. I'm not interested in putting XP on new iron very often, but we do have the occasional business reason.
What a lot of people forget is that just because MS stops supporting an OS doesn't mean it will automatically stop working.
The other side of that coin is that long before MS drops support, hardware vendors will stop writing drivers. I'm already having trouble finding XP drivers for some new hardware, especially systems released in the last couple of years. I'm not interested in putting XP on new iron very often, but we do have the occasional business reason.
The Microsoft Store has Windows Home Premium for $119 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Home-Premium/productID.235488300/vip.true), Windows 7 Professional starting at $199 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Professional/productID.216645600/vip.true), and Windows 7 Ultimate starting at $219 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Ultimate/productID.216647200/vip.true).
I doesn't look good when you pass along misinformation.
I doesn't look good when you pass along misinformation.
but it isn't by extension a good reason for their customers to accept those changes. As a customer, it isn't my job to keep a company in business. My point is that MS is doing a lousy job of explaining to potential upgraders why these changes are being made.
Fewer people may be using the Start button, but those few certainly seem to be screaming loudly.
Fewer people may be using the Start button, but those few certainly seem to be screaming loudly.
Works on a tablet and works on a desktop. Windows 8 is here to stay.
The Microsoft Store has Windows Home Premium for $119 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Home-Premium/productID.235488300/vip.true).
Windows 7 Professional starting at $199 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Professional/productID.216645600/vip.true).
Windows 7 Ultimate starting at $219 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Ultimate/productID.216647200/vip.true).
The Microsoft Store has Windows Home Premium for $119 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Home-Premium/productID.235488300/vip.true).
Windows 7 Professional starting at $199 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Professional/productID.216645600/vip.true).
Windows 7 Ultimate starting at $219 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Ultimate/productID.216647200/vip.true).
But how many potential customers are going to find that blog, much less read the entire article?
The Microsoft Store has Windows Home Premium for $119 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Home-Premium/productID.235488300/vip.true).
Windows 7 Professional starting at $199 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Professional/productID.216645600/vip.true).
Windows 7 Ultimate starting at $219 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Ultimate/productID.216647200/vip.true).
Use the above Windows 7 titles if you have an older PC and want to use a really good operating system on it.
Windows 7 Professional starting at $199 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Professional/productID.216645600/vip.true).
Windows 7 Ultimate starting at $219 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Windows-7-Ultimate/productID.216647200/vip.true).
Use the above Windows 7 titles if you have an older PC and want to use a really good operating system on it.
- Keyboard Shortcuts:
- Prev
- Next
- Toggle
