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Get the true story behind Windows 8

Jensen Harris does a good job of explaining why Microsoft decided to make such a radical change - there are good logical reasons. Watch the video and tell us what you think?

If you want to know why we needed a new interface concept then Microsoft did the worst compared to competitors.

Google was really innovative and has made a very usable new interface, within Chrome and Android OS (Apple also did a good thing on iPhones and now on its iPad tablets).

Microsoft is late in everything, and first in the usability. The excellent tiled interface is the one you find on Android OS and on the Chrome applications store. Even Firefox has a much better interface for its application store (replacing now the former selector for themes and addons).

The Google experience is not only usable, it is excellent across platforms from the smallest smartphones via the tablet to the desktop and notebook or even on your TV. Everything is synchronized (including third-party applications, with the new NaCl, acronym for the Native Client library, and for its builtin virtual machine which provides a secure sandbox). If something crashes on your PC, just drop everything and reinstall the browser : everything will be instantly resynchronized. There's nothing as simple to use as Google applications and its third party providers. Intuitively, even if there are dramatic innovations in the UI.

It is crap, I had a galaxy tab and galaxy s2, you obviously aren't talking from experience, these systems felt very amateur, I am now a surface and windows phone 8 user & love it

I can understand noobs being scared of it, wow, your Android statement, you just have no idea

This site is populated with some of the most technically oriented minds in the field. Some of them are intelligent in other fields such as common courtesy. Some of us have been programming and creating source code before you were born. Even a handful of us, myself included worked in building with massive machines with huge magnetic tapes running binary.
So be careful who you call new and non experienced, we have more right to challenge technology and it's rapid changes more than anyone. Face it, we are just airing things out. In 2 years or less we will be beta testing Windows 9, and in 4 years be complaining about it just as passionately and there will be those who will step up and say how fantastic and innovative it is. Really? So, who was all that exited with Windows Vista? I am only using Vista as an example because it was recent but there have been other releases that were not so fun.
I am no longer technically employed, nor am I professionally designing software, I am retired. I prefer to talk in less technical terms for the benefit of those who are laymen. I get opportunities to beta test equipment and software for various companies, for which I volunteer, under the condition that I give my report back to them from a consumers point of view and not a technical point of view.
After all, if it was all about selling only to technically advanced people who wish to brag about the size of their toys which are ironically getting smaller, then all of these manufactures would starve to death. If it's not consumer/user friendly, it should not be a marketable item.

I appreciate your input!

Well, you certainly took him to school on that one.

Actually, you took him behind the woodshed!

its still lacking some truth. And in explaining why the desktop is such a jarring difference from the Metro-ized world.

One of the things that caught my attention, and to which I've found out doesn't hold up, is the "natural order" thinking they had.. mainly with scrolling the metro/start screen and having it line up .. it doesn't always line up as he'd explained.

I think he would have been more honest if he'd said they simply stuck lipstick on a pig and sent it out into the world as "The NEW Windows" ...

everything he talked about seemed centered around metro .. and how wonderful it is.. when the cold reality is that metro only works on laptop/tablet, etc devices because again... the "desktop" version of the OS did nothing more than remove commonly known mouse clicks and keyboard shortcuts and replace them with gestured touch compatible ones, that are a horrible fit if you don't have touch on your machine... swiping? who in their right minds *needed* to swipe with a mouse? Or perform three or more other mouse/gesture movements just to accomplish the simple power off/restart ??

TG2, I'm having trouble following your reasoning. I need to turn my computer off about once or twice a month. Most of the time I just walk away, and it goes to sleep after ten or fifteen minutes. If I need to lock the screen, I just press Windows + L. When I do shut down my machine, I don't usually make three mouse clicks, I do it all with the keyboard. In general, I run the whole Windows 8 interface from the keyboard, and use the mouse only rarely. Since I'm not running surface, all the business about gesturing and swiping that you talk about makes no sense. I can't swipe with a mouse, so I don't have to worry if it is efficient or not. Yet it seems I can always get where I need to go in about half a second with the keyboard.

The Win 8 OS boots faster than Windows 7, and faster than Linux. It handles things like updates and system scans automatically, and reliably. The new start screen is much easier to navigate than the old start menu, which made starting applications like hunting for a needle in a haystack.

And best of all, Windows 8 provides great integration with the cloud and great support for virtual machines.

I spend about half my time on Linux and half my time on Windows 8, and I think they are both great. Linux doesn't have the smooth, this is like flying, ease of use of Windows 8, but it shines brighter when it comes to networking and web deployment issues.

Whit all respect, where do you see Windows 8 booting faster than any Linux distribution?

It's faster than Windows 7, yes... but only because it doesn't load all the services that Windows 7 starts at boot time. Check the clock next time you'll boot Windows 8!

I also use few Linux distributions on a daily basis (Debian Squeeze and Wheezy, Ubuntu 10.04.4, 12.04.1 and 12.10, MintOS 14.1, OpenSUZE 12.1, FreeBSD9.1, CentOS 6.3 and even Fedora 17) on the same machine where I run Windows 7 and 8 (all the OS are 64 bit and are installed on larges Crucial SSD).

And any Linux distribution boots always two to three times faster than Windows 8! Oops!

BTW, most if not all the Linux distributions handle updates and system updates automatically and relaibly too. But you've to learn how to setup those very basic things! LoL!

Now with regard to the web services, just compare Nginx or Cherokee or Lighttpd and even the old dog Apache on any Linux distribution to the pure crap named IIS. MSFT's web server isn't even a joke, it's a shame!

Just my two cents.
All the best.

Null4Ever: You are making the classic straw man argument. You imply that I said updates on Linux were hard. I never said that. You imply I said Windows networking was better than Linux, I said the opposite. Perhaps there is something odd about my experience with booting Linux, but for me, booting Ubuntu 12.10 is similar or slightly slower than booting Windows. Not that booting Windows or Linux is something I do very often. Generally, these days we just put the machine to sleep, which works well in Windows and Linux, as both wake up in less than five seconds. So the whole argument about boot times is not really very important.

And just to be clear: I use Linux and Windows a lot because I really like both operating systems. The last thing I am doing is trying to run down, Linux, which I love. Windows 8 is not perfect (and neither is Linux) but people say Win 8 is terrible, which is absurd.

charliecalvert - Like so many people I have already labeled and judged this OS a write off without even using it. I guess people just don't like change. But from what you are saying here my opinion is swayed somewhat and will give it a try. I think also people are getting confused from the old "run" command line - and the search function.

We can start with the fact that when you install it on some Win7 computers, the sound no longer works, and go from there.

Then there's the fact that it can lock up and stick on 13%. Of course, you can fix this by uninstalling the video driver, then completing the Win8 setup, and THEN re-installing the video driver. BUT, at least when you get it up and running, you can go and hunt for the shut-off/restart options, tons of fun for everyone!

...who is not either a technical professional, or a kid.

The fact that it takes several steps to reach the power settings is one nuisance, to the point where people are returning their windows 8 computers to the stores where they purchased them.

I find it odd that you think keyboard shortcuts are missing in Windows 8. Here is one good compilation of the great shortcuts available in Windows 8:

http://tech2.in.com/features/software/tips-and-tricks-windows-8-shortcuts-cheatsheet/551452

Lets start with the Windows Key .. where's shutdown / restart and RUN in your glorified Metro? Not a Win+Key combo.. I mean the simple *Windows* key launching a menu system that had nearly *EVERY* option from *one* key. Control Panel? Printers & Devices? ... etc.

Not there.. now things like Run and Shutdown are moved to a completely different menu bar (if you want to call "Charms" that, since that is the function). Taken away is the *Start* button/screen that we've had since win95 .. which was a window onto everything the pc *could* be asked to do ... and now replace with the Start Screen which gives you *ONLY* applications, or things you manually put there.

Even in the bastardized Gnome3 / Unity / whatever you want to call it .. they at least have a "start" menu system that gives you, *by default*, all the same Panel Groups .. Applications, Office, Internet, System, etc.... that you had with the older Panel styled menu system.

You wanted to bring *nix in to the mix.. be careful what you wish for.

Shutdown? Sure.. it could be argued that you "dont have to" but then lets look at a standard laptop ... again without a touch screen .. the very first thing *I* do ... is to STOP the pc from taking actions when I close the lid. I pick up my laptop to relocate within the house, or when I'm going from room to room at the office, I *DONT* need it sleeping or some other BS which adds delay to simply opening the lid.. or when someone walks by and I don't want my screen seen .. again.. close the lid.. I'm sure these can be disabled in 8 too.. but then when you intend to pack your laptop away when you are taking it with you.. again.. Shutdown isn't as easy as it was.

We can do this all day long.. the simple fact .. as above.. Microsoft didn't even give users the choice .. *AND* when it was proven users did things to get AROUND microsoft's stupidity .. microsoft DIRECTLY took action to disable the ability to "start to the desktop" .. yes again.. we can go round and round about adding YET ANOTHER app to the pc to make it do things as we've already been learning to do them... and get us to the desktop when we start.. but we wouldn't HAVE TO do these things and make these huge changes to how *WE* do our work on these devices .. with windows 8 had microsoft given us the choice.

And don't misconstrue this to be anti windows 8 ... because I think some of their stuff makes perfect sense *ON A TABLET* ... EVEN THERE however... when a coworker showed me his new toy .. it wasn't connecting to the internet.. so the first thing I did? Start a Command Prompt to check for IP's, try to ping, etc.. and again.. the difference from Metro to Desktop is still the same analogy ... Metro is the lipstick on the pig .. cute for some, some functionality if you're in metro apps ... but for the real world ... complete and utter garbage ..

Even in your desktop ... from a laptop, or tablet like that microsoft surface device.. the moment you attach that keyboard .. it should ask if you want to switch to a "desktop mode" which would include a 'previously standardized windows start menu and bar' so that you can operate in the non-touch screen world more easily.. *THAT* would have been another good choice microsoft could have made .. but I'm sure some 3rd party will come along and make an app for that. Far be it from microsoft to include a basic formatting feature like that.

Thanks for your detailed, and informative, reply.

I still am not, however, convinced by what you are saying. I'm in Win 8 now. I want to get to the start menu: I press the Windows key. I'm there instantly. I want to get back to the desktop. I press the windows key. (Alternately Windows + D). I'm back at the desktop instantly. How could it possibly be faster or simpler?

I don't understand your discussion of moving your laptop. The fastest way to completely pause and restart your machine is to put it to sleep. With a laptop, just close the lid and it goes to sleep, just as it did in Windows 7. Then when you want to restart, just open the lid and (optionally) type in your password. That is exactly the same as on Windows 7. Alternately, just press Windows + L, and walk around with your laptop lid open, then you don't have to sleep and wake, though that takes less that 5 seconds on my machine. As you say, there are options change whether a computer sleeps when you close the lid.

When I am on Ubuntu Unity, I get to the Start screen in exactly the same way I do in Windows 8: I press the Window key.

As for run: just press Windows and click on or type the name of your app. Either way, the app starts running? How could it be faster or simpler? Alternately, just press Windows + R to start the old Run dialog from Windows 7.

Starting the control panel and related features: The simplest way to do most of these tasks is just to press Windows + X. No simple way to describe what that does, but try it: it gets you instant access to the Control Panel, task manager, File Explorer, Search, Disk Managment, Device Manager, Power Options, etc.

I understand that Windows 8 requires that we learn a few new things, and perhaps I'm odd, but I enjoy the change. And since the change is helping me to old tasks in faster, simpler ways, I welcome them. Is there room for improvement: sure. Is it junk: no. It's very good, and pretty much fun.

Sorry but doesn't that sound like using the Command Line which was so derided in Unix when Windows 95 came out?

I don't want to use that stinking Unix as to start things running I have to type in Commands be that Program Names or whatever.

Sorry but returning to the Command Line to launch Apps or whatever you want to call them is just the Command Line all over again.

Col

No, it is not the same as using the command line. With the command line, you have to change directory, run a dir listing to make sure you have the spelling then start your app. Or else set up your path and/or a batch file to start apps automatically. (The command line can be very efficient, but that is another issue.)

With Windows 8, you can do any of the following:

* Press the Windows key, and click on your app icon,
* Press Windows + Q and click on your icon,
* Press Windows and type your apps name and press enter.

All three work fine, and none are like using the command line. All are at least as easy as Windows 7 equivalent actions.

In Windows 7, you pressed the Windows key, or clicked on the start button, then dug through the menus, then started your app. Or else you ran them off the start menu itself after first setting them up, which is the same Windows key + click icon. There really was no equivalent in Windows 7 to the Windows key + Q, which has all the advantages of the old Windows 7 menu in that it lays out all your apps in categories, but it is easier to use than Windows 7 because you don't have to dig down through the menus.

The point is that the command line (which can be very efficient) involves typing and paths, while Windows 8 is just hit a single key (or wave the mouse) and click on an icon. They are very different models. Starting an app in Windows 8 works as efficiently as Windows 7, has all the same features, but adds some new ones in terms of presentation and ease of use.

It's different to the Command Line because you use different commands?

Sure there are other ways of doing it but when so many sprout that it's easy and to type in whatever it's using the Command Line for whatever reason.

The reason why so many people jumped to Windows was because there was no need to use the Command Line at all and that they had Icons to click on either on the desktop or in Sub Menu's which meant that they never go near the command line ever again. That really meant No Typing Names or needing to remember Important Phrases.

Needing to type whatever in instead of using a Menu System under those conditions most defiantly isn't a step forward for those people. Doesn't matter if they don't have to first change Directories and then start the application by typing in the necessary commands the need to type is what so many people complained about in the first place with using computers.

What's the difference between needing to remember strange Commands and even stranger Application Names to start things?

After all what would the average person think Ado.exe means?

The reason why I refer to this being a Substitute Command Line is because so many people from Microsoft down are spooking just how easy it is to Launch Applications from the Start Menu/Screen/Metro or whatever you want to call it by pressing the windows key and typing.

They seem to have forgotten the reasons why they pushed so hard to not need to type anything to get applications running which was the Claimed Big Advantage of using Windows in the first place.

The moment that they realize that all devices are not the same and some may need a different GUI to best suit their intended use the better off we'll all be but if they insist on retaining the On Size Fits All it's going to hurt them for a very long time to come. Not all Committee Decision no matter how well intentioned that they are work or are the best way to go. The places that stick to those Committee Decisions regardless, because there is a Reason for them in the companies eyes, be that Carbon Fiber Frames for Moto GP Bikes or Metro for using Windows 8 is a sign of a Company where the Decision Making Process has got more important that what the users want.

This was Microsoft's big advantage when they started with IBM is that they where not a Massive Bureaucracy which needed years to instigate change. They moved from 8 to 16 Bit processing very quickly when 16 Bit Hardware became available and then to 32 Bit processing. However it's now been years since 64 Bit processing was available and we are now only starting to have 64 Bit OS's being predominate. This isn't because of any Advantages of 64 Bit OS's but because we have outgrown 32 Bit Software and it's unable to sufficiently address the Hardware needs of todays users. It's been years since we started seeing 64 Bit Software being made available and it's only since the advent of 7 that we have seen wide spread use of it starting.

Personally I wouldn't be at all surprised if we had 256 Bit Hardware well and truly available for all before we see a move to 128 Bit Software. The bigger Microsoft gets the slower they are to respond to changes and the more bureaucratic they get.

They are IBM all over again.

Col

If you don't like using the keyboard, then just wave your mouse in the lower left part of the screen, and you are at the start screen. Then click on an icon to start you application. That is almost exactly what you did in Windows 7.

I happen to like using keyboard shortcuts, and I think the keyboard shortcuts in Windows 8 are very useful. If you don't like them, then don't use them. Stick with the mouse. It works fine.

You are pretending there is some huge difference between Windows 7 and Windows 8, when the same things work in both operating systems. In windows 7 you click in the bottom left corner on the start button to get to the menu, in WIndows 8 you move your mouse in the bottom left corner to get to the to the start screen. To you it is a big difference, for me it is essentially the same thing, only it is a refreshing change from the same old- same old, plus some nice new features.

Is typing in Windows 8 to call up a program like using the command line? In some ways yes. In other ways no.
As Charlie pointed out, you don't need to know the file path or the exact file name to run the application.

Is using the hierarchical file structure in Windows 7 faster or more efficient than typing the file name in Windows 8? Sometimes, maybe.

But let's take calculator for an example. Let's assume that I don't have a calculator key on my keyboard. If I want to add some numbers up quickly I would do the following:
Windows 7
Take my right hand off the keyboard and use the mouse.
Click the Start Button
Click All Programs
Click Accessories
Find Calculator on the list and click it.
Return my right hand to the number pad and start adding
In Windows 8
If you are not on the Start Screen, hit the Windows key
Type C-A-L-C + Enter
Start adding
In this case, typing is much faster and more efficient.

Yes, it is a new/old way to open programs and it may be a shocker to people who are used to mousing around the All Programs menu but I think most people will welcome it if it is explained to them.

You can use the exact same key sequence in W7 that you describe in W8. Win key, type C-A-L, press Enter key.

Typing is more efficient if you're a good typist and already know the shortcuts. Most of my users aren't good typists, which is why they rejoiced when the mouse came along in the first place. I know plenty of efficient ways to use a computer, but I'm always going to give the instructions that are easiest to follow. That usually means I give preference to mouse movements over keyboard sequences.

But most people don't.
I was addressing those people. I will call them the "mousers".
I was using C-A-L-C as an example but if I wanted to teach someone how to use the Windows 8 start menu efficiently I would say, "If you want to open a program and you know at least part of the filename, just type the part you know, look at the screen, if you see it, press the enter key. When you are on a computer other than your own, you no longer have figure out where in the "All Programs" it is located. (people can and do relocate those programs)
If you want Microsoft Excel, just type "Excel" and hit the enter key.

If it's your own computer, set it up the way you want it. Make a category. Make a tile. Pin it to the taskbar. But know that if you go on someone else's computer, you can always find it if you type the name of the program from the start menu."

I think most people would find that information very useful.

The funny thing is, many office workers buy a calculator or adding machine rather than use the one built in.

Lets look at *why* Microsoft moved from the Program Manager in 3.1 to the "Start Menu" ...

Program Manager with an active open window of groups of icons ... tiled, or cascaded, etc etc ... put groups of windows with mouse travel all over the place.

Start *Menu* like in Panel of *Nix/Xwin .. started with the concept ... little mouse movements ... a 3 inch area of activation where most things could be easily reached without repeated edge to edge mouse movement... you shouldn't need to go edge to edge of your screen with a mouse to activate commands with your mouse ..

Enter the Start Screen ... like that of Unity ... In *tablet* modes ... your hands are already ON the screen ... the area of motion is roughly 5 inches either way? More natively touch based rather than carry a mouse, etc etc etc

Turn the OS into a DUAL interfaced system ... and you fix most of the complaint .. When in Desktop Mode .. you don't have to remember Win R ... Win C ... win ANYTHING other than "Win" ...

In tablet mode .. the Windows key alone, no longer gets you to the menuing system that provides full access to every command, buried or not ...

If your complaint is that the menus don't make sense in Win 7 .. then neither does the grouping under Win 8 and you have to take action to re-arrange your "Menu" to your preference ... Win 7 and older .. Right Click the start menu ... Win 8 .. press and hold on a "tile" and that signifies you mean to move it.. etc..

With that... your complex idea of digging through menus is erased .. its not my fault if you didn't think of your menu, and your hard drive like a file cabinet .. that was their analogue.

Win 7 ... like Vista even tried to FURTHER help you get access quickly in LESS than that 3 inch space .. by putting frequently used applications and commands into the Main Menu of start ..

Start Menu to Start Screen .. signified also a shift from "you start here" for "Start Menu" as they had the target laden ads and the initial "how to use" videos showing the bulls-eye target ... to the Start Screen where Microsoft is signifying "Start something" ... to which I add the hook .. and yank away with "... BUT NOT EVERYTHING" because the start screen lacks what the start MENU had, access to everything.

As to the whole laptop issue .. you made the argument for not shutting down .. I'm making the argument that I do shut down .. frequently .. because I move with my laptop frequently .. and that I don't use Sleep as a method .. for short term that's not an issue, but for me .. I drive 1 hour one way to get to a job, to a friend, or any place I need to be (I'm that geographical oddity 1 hour from just about everywhere) and having my laptop in sleep mode that hour means when I wake it up ... I have less than 1 hour run time before needing power ... etc..

And if *you* want to carry your open laptop anywhere ... then that's fine for you .. I'd rather have it flat and compact so I can hold it securely with one hand as I move etc. Hence.. disabled sleep mode for lid closure .. and still accessible to do sleep mode if I want, by hitting START cursor key to shutdown etc. etc. .. but you can't do that on your Win 8 ... not with the Win Key Alone .. can you.. and its not in your start screen .. its in your charms ...

That's hardly using the Win key alone.
In Win 7 you can get to sleep mode on a laptop by doing the following:
1 Click the Windows key
2 Use the trackpad to move the cursor to the shutdown button.
3 Click the arrow next to the shutdown button to call up the options
4 Click on sleep

In Win 8 you can get to sleep mode on a laptop by doing the following:
1 Click the Windows key + I
2 Use the trackpad to move the cursor to the power button.
3 Click Power
4 Click on sleep

There are still the same amount of steps in Win 7 and Win 8.

Of course, I set my power button on my laptop to make it go to sleep faster. Slide it to the right and release puts it to sleep. (Win 7 or Win 8)

Alternatively, in Windows 8 you can do the following.
1 Get to the desktop (Win or Enter key )
2 Press Alt + F4
3 Choose Sleep
4 Click OK

I don't think either way (Win 7, Win 8 A or Win 8 B) are any easier. They are just different.

I'm sorry JJ ... Win i? that is *NOT* the Windows key all by itself. That is not using a single key to get access to *ALL* items that are possible on the system ... you blindly said.. Win + I ... where did *you* learn Win+i?

The same issue I have with Vista / 7 .... and that I had with XP not showing by default .. the *underlined* character that would activate some feature..

ie.. Alt + F .. for file? ... etc... things that *could* be done to XP and others.. to have users see there *were* keyboard shortcuts to be had ... and to make it easier on them if they paid attention.. but where are these hot key markers now? By default microsoft *did not* turn on the Alt carat markers.. and this continues to this day ... you have have watch some other video, or read about these features rather than have them in front of you ... for you to question ...

Yes, Win+I are two keys.
Since I can touch them both with the same hand, can't I count it as one move? No? Man, this is a tough audience.
I feel like we are playing "Name that Tune". I can name it in four notes.

What does it matter anyway when I can put my laptop to sleep in one single finger step? Slide the power button and release.

Where did I come up with Win+I? You see... I'm an inquisitive kind of guy and there's this cool search thing on the Interwebs called Google. You can type in all kinds of things and get answers. Nowadays with these new fangled things called "browsers", you can enter your question right into the box at the top of the window. Be careful though - the box in the Win 8 IE10 app browser puts the box at the bottom.(Mind blown)

I assumed that the shortcuts that I have been familiar with and using in previous versions of Windows may also work in Windows 8 and lo and behold... I was right! The vast majority of them do work! And there's a few new ones. You might want to try that Google thing I told you about to find out about Windows shortcuts.

For example: I have been using Win+L to quickly lock my desktops for a long long time. Do you still do Start > Shutdown > Lock or worse, Ctrl+Alt+Del+Enter? That's so old school.

you say 'old school' like there's something wrong with that. And no, I didn't forget the 'smiley'.

Agreed. Don't let the apparent length intimidate you. The original blog post is only about 15% of the page. The rest is reader comments and feedback, although some of the MS responses are also enlightening. Yes, that's still a lot of material if you're accustomed to single-screen posts, or if Twitter challenges your attention span. However, if you REALLY want an answer to the question, "What the $@%&$ was Microsoft thinking?!?", then here it is.

I tripped over this post a couple of weeks ago. It didn't make me a W8 fan. At least now I know where MS is coming from with W8, and have a better idea why it thinks W8 will get it where it wants to go.

Greg, I'll take a look at the video over the weekend. Thanks.

it's a mashup and the actual video link is to

http://player.vimeo.com/video/52173464

and even going to that direct it doesn't run.

The only thing being blocked on either site by my security settings is google-analytics.com/ga.js which should NOT be stopping the video from running unless it has some odd controlling script to only allow it to work after knowing where you are - if that's so it's a very obtrusive piece of spyware.

The embedded link is working for me at this time. I did have to click it a few times, with a few seconds in between each click.

I have AdBlockPlus blocking GA as that stops a heck of a lot of excess download and ads due to them not being able to determine where I am to push the local ads.

I've not heard of GA before this conversation.

javascripts from Google to find out where someone visiting your website is from. The main use is by Google to localise the ads that they push at you. If you check the source code for this page you'll find a section labelled "GA Tracking" - it's in green text and seems to be a Rem label for some code which includes google-analytics.com/ga.js.

I've found that blocking that one script and cookies from the GA site has a serious impact on the number of advertisements pushed at me from many sites. However, some sites are now set to have a response from that before they allow the content to be downloaded to you.

You have, I suppose, heard of this glowing ball in the sky called the sun, of which everything in the rest of our solar system revolves around?

Of that too, Google Analytics has been beating its drum watching and profiling all of us readily. "helping" to deliver us from the irrelevancy of maxipad ads while giving us trojans, or showing us that all mighty IBM still has a system and name to sell us on...

Its there ... beneath the code, and has been for a very very long time.. you need to question this stuff more Mr. CS_P ... you need to come to the same table many of the rest of us come to ... the table of dis-satisfaction where we're tired of "THEM" sending us loud ads that auto play, auto script, or any of a billion other issues with ads that you too should not tolerate... and you learn at the same time who's pulling the strings of the world wide web marionette.. Google.

I'm in desktop support, not web development. I'm at plenty of other tables already, and there are too many these days to sit at all of them.

Not knowing the mechanisms used or what they're named doesn't mean I'm unaware of their general effects and intentions. Targeted advertising is not unique to Google or the web. (*cough, couch - TECHREPUBLIC - cough*) Do you expect to get their services for 'free'? If you don't like their practices, have you heard you're not obligated to use them? Have you heard of ad blockers, disabling cookies, and other methods of reducing the impact of user tracking? I have, even if I don't know the exact names of some of these products.

Ah... Adblocker ... and what is it ... do you think ... that Adblockers use to block ads? Filters of sites that supply them ...

If you were so adblocker aware ... you should have by now investigated google analytics for having accidentally blocked it ... or some other such thing... but obviously you haven't ... and labeling it under a guise of Web Development means you still don't understand its impact.

Further .. being in Desktop Support .. are you telling me you've never run into the over zealous ad blocker who also was affected by blocking something in google space and then again didn't bother to look at it then?

I.T. *IS* a huge field ... google is bigger... and the more you google the dark side ("privacy issues google" "invasive google tools" etc) the sooner you learn some of the history and know the future to expect.

whose major 'initial investors' were NSA/CIA war chests. Visionaries had realized that Information Awareness need not *cost* $; it can actually, in today's world turn a huge profit. The last CIA fronts I heard of that actually made money are Air America and BCCI....

When I first started using NoScript (many years ago now) I noticed a marked improvement in page loading speeds.

The culprit was Google Analytics.
It was causing massive delays and let's face it, it's Spyware.

Unfortunately, these days all websites seem to run hundreds of unnecessary JavaScript routines and page load times are increasing as a result.

I'm aware of the functions of the tools many web sites use to capture visitor data. I just didn't know 'Google Analytics' by name.

and the EULA to use anything Google, where enough to get me to switch to Dragon(which until recently did block ALL objects I didn't want to load), but I still get the advantage of the Chrome browser. I have two Gmail accounts, but I only use one, and I access it through server based email at my ISP, using Outlook. That is as close to anything Google I want to be. Bing has come along very nicely, and it is my primary search engine now.

The extension was called privalert; and is being reworked for stability. I never had problems with it myself. I liked the fact that I could block everything just like NoScript, but it worked in groups of objects, which gave a different feel to the control, I liked it better than No Script.

I use Google only for search.

than yahoo mail and live mail (used to be called Hotmail) - gmail also has less excess crap too. But my main mail accounts aren't with gmail at all.

nt

Did you really expect it to open in anything other than IE?

nt

exercise to try and convince people it all makes sense. However, the section on Windows 8 makes it clear that Win 8 is aimed solely at the mobile user personal entertainment market and totally ignores the real needs of business, the enterprise, and workplace productivity except where they can make it seem to fit in.

That all makes sense for the smartphones and tablets, but is a major slap in the face for enterprise and those after an OS for productivity, and also for those who want to have something they're familiar with to use at home. If they'd left the Win Classic desktop and start as an available option they'd have ha d a winner, but what they've done is make life way too hard for too many users.