Discussion on:
View:
Show:
Android and i OS tablets are much simpler than Windows 8 Tablets. This alone will be enough to make sure that Windows doesn't become King of Tablets. Anyone that is not very computer literate is going to select one of the first two options. I have both W7 and an Android Tablet, and the Android Tablet is a lot more friendly. Windows might offer the superior tablet, but that doesn't mean that people will not go for Android and i OS as their preferred tablet. Windows is (TDC), Too Damn Complicated to become King of the Hill. I really like my Windows 7 Desktop and Laptop computers, but that being said, I am only one person and the crowd will decide on the tablets that are simpler, and for that matter 1/2 the price of a Windows 8 device. Not everybody is a techie that reads computer magazines. W7 just updated my computers this morning. 16 updates, and one of my computers after the updates, got the BSOD, but it recovered and finally was working OK. With my Nexus 10 Android, the minute I turn it on, all of the programs installed on it are updated if required, and the Jelly Bean 4.2.1 also received necessary updates. It is so simple that anyone can get it done since it is automatic. I like all of my computers and wouldn't want to part with any of them, but if someone has to select just once device, I honestly think that they will select an Android or i OS device due to the lower cost and ease of use.
BSOD? Now you sure it wasn't a hardware issue? Blame it right away on windows.
My netbook [yes a netbook] goes to the windows 8 desktop within 20 seconds. - faster than your Nexus.
16 updates? OK. Now how do you know how many updates are going through when you say "all of the programs installed on it are updated if required".
My netbook [yes a netbook] goes to the windows 8 desktop within 20 seconds. - faster than your Nexus.
16 updates? OK. Now how do you know how many updates are going through when you say "all of the programs installed on it are updated if required".
I also had another BSOD after the latest MS security patches (so much for Win. 7 being secure - I'd estimate 80 - 90% of the patches are security fixes - and there has been a ton of them). Had to go through the repair cycle twice and then used another product to "fix" the problem.
I can see some of the "Redmond" boys are out trolling the blogs!
I can see some of the "Redmond" boys are out trolling the blogs!
It just says there is a bad base to begin and who knows how many more security holes are there!
are known for using very porous material when patching.
>> I'd estimate 80 - 90% of the patches are security fixes -
About the same for my Linux server.
About the same for my Linux server.
fixes for the various apps that run rather than the fixes for the kernel, which are few. The patches for Windows are mostly for the OS. Yes, there are also patches for IE and MS Office, but they don't count as [art of the OS. Also note, when Firefox or Google Chrome makes a patch for their Linux support,. that same patch typically needs to be applied to the Windows version. With Linux support, that patch is made available with the Software Update function in distros like Ubuntu, Mint, etc. With Windows you need to take care of those patches yourself. The Linux kernel is hundreds of time moer secure than the Windows kernel.
So don't throw FUD about Linux patches vs Windows patches.
So don't throw FUD about Linux patches vs Windows patches.
Android is not simpler than Windows, if you gave Windows on a tablet a chance you would know, its much faster and easier to use than any Android. And it is a lot more enjoyable than crapple's old boring GUI
This petty excuse is of it not being simple is weak, people need to think about what they write a bit more.
This petty excuse is of it not being simple is weak, people need to think about what they write a bit more.
Each tablet has their place, their own context. I think Win 8 is a huge success on both the desktop and tablet. The OS just gets out of the way of the application user interface. MS has bypassed Apple's antiquated skeuomorphic design philosophy -- it's only relevant to boomers and gen Xers' nowadays. I've read tat Apple's design team is painfully aware and since Jobs is gone they may get to finally do away with the old design philosophy he so tightly controlled. As a content creator I appreciate being able to install my favorite IDEs on Surface Pro and the keyboard is a huge boon for me. I hate typing on the screen, I dislike most mobile devices but not the Surface. It's what I hoped the original iPad would have been, a tablet that's also laptop. The Surface isn't a tablet killer, no. It's a laptop killer! I've read alotof negative comments on Win 8 and I just have to conclude that a percentage of people always have to have something to complain about, especially if they view change as a negativism. I don't think they understand it wasn't just a change from what the other big 2 are doing, it was an evolutionary step in user interface design. I tip my hat to MS as they had the cojones to skip a few steps in the evolutionary ladder.
I come from a company that is heavily tied to legacy Windows and AS400 apps. Big news - they run on Windows 8 tablets. The new Windows 8 tablets are going to do something for us that Apple and Android do not get. We are not going to have to redevelop our entire world to be able to use a smart looking device. The hybrid devices are going to really be a big thing if people stop and think before they transform their entire business IT world to revolve around Apple. Save some money folks and use what already works for your environment. USB - check. S Pen - check. Sexy device - check. Printing - got it - Integration on my domain- check. Win 7 software compatibility - check. This is probably the only time I can remember Microsoft saving us money - kudos!!!! Check out the Samsung ATIV and the Dell Lattitude coming soon.
that Windows now supports AS400 architecture (or S/W designed to run on the ASS/400). Did Microsoft pull another fast one on IBM?
If have a tablet with Windows 7 on it, I suggest you upgrade to Windows 8 ASAP (It won't cost much). Compare Windows 8 with other tablet OSes, but not Windows 7, although it has a few touch features, it was designed for the desktop only.
My 80+ year old mother bought herself an iPad as a Christmas Present to herself late last year. After visiting her Nephew she decided to but a Tablet which would be easy to use do all she wanted and just work.
She looked at all of the available tablets and bought a iPad which she loves.
OK she's defiantly not in any way related to any form of industry and doesn't require any Industry Applications but what i did find interesting is how the author here was drawing on Industry Needs and then started talking about Cloud Based Apps which in any form of business that has even the smallest security need are the biggest No No into adopting any form of Multi-platform Cloud Software.
If they do not control their Data they have nothing and the fact that most of these Cloud Providers own whatever data they store means that Business will not touch their offerings with a Barge Pole even if there was no impediment to them adopting it from other areas.
Business runs on Data and they just don't give it away freely no matter what.
Then the other side of the market which is Domestic Users who want a Play Toy to do whatever just need an Appliance which they can use. The iPad and Droid Tablets fit that pretty well depending on the person using it and Windows RT is still too difficult for most people so personally I can not see the Windows Pro Tablet gaining much traction in anything other than M$ Only Business where that business has signed an agreement for cheaper product with M$ to only use M$ product.
Col
She looked at all of the available tablets and bought a iPad which she loves.
OK she's defiantly not in any way related to any form of industry and doesn't require any Industry Applications but what i did find interesting is how the author here was drawing on Industry Needs and then started talking about Cloud Based Apps which in any form of business that has even the smallest security need are the biggest No No into adopting any form of Multi-platform Cloud Software.
If they do not control their Data they have nothing and the fact that most of these Cloud Providers own whatever data they store means that Business will not touch their offerings with a Barge Pole even if there was no impediment to them adopting it from other areas.
Business runs on Data and they just don't give it away freely no matter what.
Then the other side of the market which is Domestic Users who want a Play Toy to do whatever just need an Appliance which they can use. The iPad and Droid Tablets fit that pretty well depending on the person using it and Windows RT is still too difficult for most people so personally I can not see the Windows Pro Tablet gaining much traction in anything other than M$ Only Business where that business has signed an agreement for cheaper product with M$ to only use M$ product.
Col
Can you say iPad for [computer] dummies. IPads are for the computer novices. they dumb it down.
But comparing a Win Surface RT to a iPad for a non-computer user and I think you'll find that the iPad wins every time.
When you start to consider different products you need to keep them in the same range so while a iPad is a Domestic Product aimed directly at Domestic Users it's only Microsoft comparable device is a Surface RT.
For you and me 8 may not be an issue but here we are not talking about us, we are talking about Home Users and they go with what is easier for them to do the things that they want to do. And really why would you or I buy a RT when we know that the Pro is coming and will be what we really need?
The RT is never going to be a Business product simply because it is designed not to fit that role, the yet unreleased Surface Pro will fill that bill perfectly and be what Business wants and needs though they may not want to pay for it.
So when you stick to Domestic Products with Domestic Users, you'll find that the Surface RT is going to loose out just about every time. It's not in the race even with the hack to allow it to run the full Microsoft Software range and not being limited to the crippled Microsoft App Store Software.
Personally I think that the Pro will be a great unit and will suit most business no matter who ends up making it and here I think you'll find that the Big Makers and not Microsoft will be the big winners here as they will be able to introduce lower speced Pro Tablets under the Microsoft Price Point which will be the draw card for most business even if they are slower and less powerful, they will be what Business ends up buying.
Personally I can not see the RT being anything more than a Loss Maker wetting the appetites for those who need a Pro.
Col
When you start to consider different products you need to keep them in the same range so while a iPad is a Domestic Product aimed directly at Domestic Users it's only Microsoft comparable device is a Surface RT.
For you and me 8 may not be an issue but here we are not talking about us, we are talking about Home Users and they go with what is easier for them to do the things that they want to do. And really why would you or I buy a RT when we know that the Pro is coming and will be what we really need?
The RT is never going to be a Business product simply because it is designed not to fit that role, the yet unreleased Surface Pro will fill that bill perfectly and be what Business wants and needs though they may not want to pay for it.
So when you stick to Domestic Products with Domestic Users, you'll find that the Surface RT is going to loose out just about every time. It's not in the race even with the hack to allow it to run the full Microsoft Software range and not being limited to the crippled Microsoft App Store Software.
Personally I think that the Pro will be a great unit and will suit most business no matter who ends up making it and here I think you'll find that the Big Makers and not Microsoft will be the big winners here as they will be able to introduce lower speced Pro Tablets under the Microsoft Price Point which will be the draw card for most business even if they are slower and less powerful, they will be what Business ends up buying.
Personally I can not see the RT being anything more than a Loss Maker wetting the appetites for those who need a Pro.
Col
That statement is really backward logic. By your definition, we should only buy poorly designed, overly complicated devices so that we can prove our intelligence? To whom? The goal of any well designed consumer device is to be simple to use yet flexible - the iPad meets those requirements which is why it is used by my 81 year father, and my 19 year old daughter. The way i see it, Microsoft has 2 big problems - getting their app store to be comparable to Apple's and Google's, and getting the die-hard Apple fans to even look at something else. Their other option was to play in the cheap device market, but that is pretty much gone the way of Anroid.
How many times is this fabricated 80 year old grandma story going to be regurgitate? Tim Cook, is that you?
and we have a cheap Android that she plays her 2 or 3 games to pass time. She finds the Android easy to use and she is nowhere being computer literate. Stop at the local BB and we looked at the MS "Metro" - she found it confusing as all get out. Until I got the Android, the closest she would go to a computer was a couple of hand-held games - she won't even try my laptop nor my desktop - ha no patience for waiting them to boot up among other things.
Hardly and she's my mother not Grandmother. Though I could do with some of his money as I'm most defiantly poor in comparison. 
I'll admit that she's different and says she doesn't like computers but will use a Computerized Photocopier to it's full capability as to her it's not a Computer it's a Photocopier. It has the same controls as the old Black & White Analog unit that she used years ago and other than a couple of more buttons for Colour and so on to her at least it's the same thing.
Windows on the other hand can under no stretch of the Imagination be called the same as Windows 3 whatever is radically different to 95 which was again different to 98 and again different to everything that came after it.
8 is again radically different to 7 and since this person is incapable of using XP for little things like the same button called Start turns it off and on she claims that it makes no sense.
Sorry but as you must be a Youngster who's mother can not be a day over 18 years old you simply will never understand.
Col the old fart laughing at your ingorance
I'll admit that she's different and says she doesn't like computers but will use a Computerized Photocopier to it's full capability as to her it's not a Computer it's a Photocopier. It has the same controls as the old Black & White Analog unit that she used years ago and other than a couple of more buttons for Colour and so on to her at least it's the same thing.
Windows on the other hand can under no stretch of the Imagination be called the same as Windows 3 whatever is radically different to 95 which was again different to 98 and again different to everything that came after it.
8 is again radically different to 7 and since this person is incapable of using XP for little things like the same button called Start turns it off and on she claims that it makes no sense.
Sorry but as you must be a Youngster who's mother can not be a day over 18 years old you simply will never understand.
Col the old fart laughing at your ingorance
Of course, this is a technical board and a few have a clue as to what goes on in the overall real world - not just their on little cubicle.
History.....that's the problem that Microsoft will need to overcome for many users. Bottom line is historically Microsoft products have had lots of bugs, crashed often, etc.
Granted more recent products have not been having as many issues, but the perception is still out there and that is what Microsoft will have to overcome.
Additionally, they will need to compete with the low cost Amazon tablets, as well as the higher end iPads and make the distinction between Windows RT and Windows clearer in their advertisements.
They will need to do all of this while avoiding lawsuits from Apple and Google, something that I don't see being possible, as the windows tablets resemble both way too much.
Granted more recent products have not been having as many issues, but the perception is still out there and that is what Microsoft will have to overcome.
Additionally, they will need to compete with the low cost Amazon tablets, as well as the higher end iPads and make the distinction between Windows RT and Windows clearer in their advertisements.
They will need to do all of this while avoiding lawsuits from Apple and Google, something that I don't see being possible, as the windows tablets resemble both way too much.
I believe the exact opposite. Micrsosfts history and legacy are what drives the microsoft buyers. Those on pc and not apple love windows for what it has always been. It has been simple, powerful, customizable, and fairly inexspensive. things like the always there desktop, the ease of use with the start button, familar static desktop icons and the abilty to upgrade and get better without loosing the core of what made windows so easy and simplistic to use. Now with Windows 8 all of that is gone. Yes it seems to appeal to apple users as it is much more apple like then windows which is why windows users dislike it so much. Everything that was legacy and simple is now gone and made much harder. Why would they hide crap and make you go find it when you used to click the start button and get what you wanted..Oh we call them charms and they are hidden in corners of the screen or over here behind these tiles. microsoft will die for turning its back on its history, familiarity and its desire to impress apple users while alienating the windows long time users.
Only reason people are stuck on Microsoft is because of its monopoly and licensing agreements. If it wasn't for IBM's stupidity, Microsoft, if it still existed, would be another also-ran company.
IBM had the business market due to the mainframes. When it came out with the PC, it had a lock in the business world - it had the sales force, the foot in the business world door, the service, etc. Apple had none of that. If IBM had developed in house (or Kildall had struck a deal), Microsoft would be nowhere the company it is today.
IBM had the business market due to the mainframes. When it came out with the PC, it had a lock in the business world - it had the sales force, the foot in the business world door, the service, etc. Apple had none of that. If IBM had developed in house (or Kildall had struck a deal), Microsoft would be nowhere the company it is today.
but their OS never took hold. Also, IBM is not good at software development (Lotus notes anyone? Lotus 1-2-3 was trounced by Office).
Sorry, your argument just fell apart.
Sorry, your argument just fell apart.
OS/2 lost because IBM had to have things done their way, be that good or bad. Gates didn't want to take it in the direction IBM wanted to go, so they parted ways.(And part of that direction was that OS/2 be rock solid and reliable. IOW, Enterprise class. Windows, at that point in time, was not. Some would still argue this point but that's for another thread and has been beaten to death.) IBM has accepted (I say accepted and not learned) this with Linux. I think they accept the Linux situation partly because it is making money for them.
Quick history lesson, IBM paid Microsoft (Gates and friends) to develop DOS (Desktop Operating System). The thing that made Microsoft was IBM allowed MS to retain the rights to the software. OS/2 was the software they developed after the split between MS and IBM. It was too late at that point, DOS was already taking hold in the business world.
People forget that businesses drive the software and hardware markets, or at least did until recently.. The business world buys way more devices than the consumer market, expect for things like personal phones, and maybe tablets. The shift is because people are now buying them and then demanding the company support the use of these devices in doing their job. Of course the company is fine with this as it cost them less money.
People forget that businesses drive the software and hardware markets, or at least did until recently.. The business world buys way more devices than the consumer market, expect for things like personal phones, and maybe tablets. The shift is because people are now buying them and then demanding the company support the use of these devices in doing their job. Of course the company is fine with this as it cost them less money.
IBM wanted an OS for a microcomputer (what they called PCs then), but didn't have one. They approached a few people and they didn't want to deal. IBM approached Bill Gates, he went out and bought the rights to the OS someone else had written and made a few changes then licensed it to IBM to use. Bill Gates did NOT write PC-DOS or MS-DOS but bought it and made a few minor changes. Gates then had others make improvements to have the later versions come out.
OS/2 was a much later development done as a joint effort until Gates walked away from it, taking most of the code as well and using that to create Windows NT, the basis for the current versions of Windows.
OS/2 was a much later development done as a joint effort until Gates walked away from it, taking most of the code as well and using that to create Windows NT, the basis for the current versions of Windows.
IBM wanted to write the next release of OS/2 in C and Gates was trying to convince them to write it in Assembler (while Windows was being written in C?). IBM and Gates parted ways for a number of reasons.
I can't totally disagree with some of the Linux argument, but IBM was already on the UNIX bandwagon to an extent with AIX. During the early years of the PC, IBM thought they were nothing more than "hobbyist toys" and the main frame would rule forever (it still does to an extent). By the the the clones were taking over the market, IBM started having an awakening. going to Unix and then Linux was a way of blunting the Microsoft's eventual dominance of the S/W market. Linux has made big strides in the server market.
I can't totally disagree with some of the Linux argument, but IBM was already on the UNIX bandwagon to an extent with AIX. During the early years of the PC, IBM thought they were nothing more than "hobbyist toys" and the main frame would rule forever (it still does to an extent). By the the the clones were taking over the market, IBM started having an awakening. going to Unix and then Linux was a way of blunting the Microsoft's eventual dominance of the S/W market. Linux has made big strides in the server market.
was because Microsoft stuck it to IBM (remember Gates stating OS/2 was the greatest thing since "sliced bread" - all while Microsoft was secretly developing Windows). Also, IBM had to tread carefully as it was still bound by a consent decree it had signed with the US Justice dept. OS/2 was far ahead of Windows, but Microsoft undercut them (and got away with licensing agreements that would have had the Justice dept. back in court suing IBM). BTW, Windows 2000 turned out to be very OS/2-like.
Also, many banks still use OS/2 - not Windows for certain secure operations.
As far as Lotus Notes, it was developed separately and later bought by IBM after Microsoft Office had been cobbled together from components developed by other companies - not Microsoft.
You haven't a clue as to how S/W is developed by IBM. Their main-frame organization had some of the best programmers in the world at one time. They also had one of the best R&D organizations in the world (and still do). IBM did true innovation, not "buying" others out of their innovative work, tweaking it and putting a Microsoft logo on it.
IBM's biggest problem was its management never fully backed the PC business. It still had it in its head that "big iron" was where it was at. It also was hurt by proprietary PC H/W. Another reason why Microsoft got the foothold - competing companies such as Compaq, HP, etc. could install MS-DOS (and later Windows) on their cloned PCs. Later, Gerstner took over IBM and switched the business to one of services - although they still are in the S/W business and, actually, are a bigger S/W producer than Microsoft.
It is obvious that NS fan-boys know very little about computer and PC history.
Also, many banks still use OS/2 - not Windows for certain secure operations.
As far as Lotus Notes, it was developed separately and later bought by IBM after Microsoft Office had been cobbled together from components developed by other companies - not Microsoft.
You haven't a clue as to how S/W is developed by IBM. Their main-frame organization had some of the best programmers in the world at one time. They also had one of the best R&D organizations in the world (and still do). IBM did true innovation, not "buying" others out of their innovative work, tweaking it and putting a Microsoft logo on it.
IBM's biggest problem was its management never fully backed the PC business. It still had it in its head that "big iron" was where it was at. It also was hurt by proprietary PC H/W. Another reason why Microsoft got the foothold - competing companies such as Compaq, HP, etc. could install MS-DOS (and later Windows) on their cloned PCs. Later, Gerstner took over IBM and switched the business to one of services - although they still are in the S/W business and, actually, are a bigger S/W producer than Microsoft.
It is obvious that NS fan-boys know very little about computer and PC history.
Bill picked up his marbles and walked out. However, he took copies of everything that IBM had paid him to develop and used that as 90% of the basis for Windows NT, which is the core of all the Windows systems for more than a decade. Thus the core of OS/2 is still around as Win 8, just a different GUI.
Microsoft is king because
- IBM clones were cheap
- Bootlegging their operating system (and products) was easy
Every home-built, computer-show PC with a bootlegged copy of DOS or Win 3.x was part of Microsoft's success story. Anyone remember the TRS-80? The Amiga? Apple was hanging on by it's fingernails and Linux was a home-brew OS that data center and academic people played with. After computer technology was mature Microsoft could enforce product licensing better - game, set match. They certainly now aren't going to lose at the tablet game, they're to big for that. If they do get out of tablets I'd be concerned about tablets.
- IBM clones were cheap
- Bootlegging their operating system (and products) was easy
Every home-built, computer-show PC with a bootlegged copy of DOS or Win 3.x was part of Microsoft's success story. Anyone remember the TRS-80? The Amiga? Apple was hanging on by it's fingernails and Linux was a home-brew OS that data center and academic people played with. After computer technology was mature Microsoft could enforce product licensing better - game, set match. They certainly now aren't going to lose at the tablet game, they're to big for that. If they do get out of tablets I'd be concerned about tablets.
IBM and Microsoft developed OS/2 jointly. If you check some of the early literature, you will find Gates endorsing OS/2. BTW, After the split, IBM marketed PC-DOS (basically MS-DOS with REXX and Stacker).
companies to use many millions of dollars of their research for a nominal royalty fee of $1.00 per device. Thus saving them huge start up costs. Thus, IBM created the PC industry.
You must have forgot the $200 - $300 OS upgrades of a few years back. Apple software upgrades have almost always been significantly less expensive than Microsoft's and Linux is free. It's competition that brought Microsoft's pricing down. Nothing about Microsoft is inexpensive, unless you want to compare them to Oracle.
we will see how well the Microsoft tablet sales stack up compared to the i-Pads and Androids. Microsoft has a monopoly on the desktop for various reasons (not all good). Microsoft won't be able to throw its weight around in the tablet market with licensing agreements and other OS lock-ins. They can tout 40 or 60 million in sales of Windows 8, but a lot of that is due to new desktops and laptops being marketed (not all have been actually sold).
It think it actually started as a languages company and then moved into operating systems and applications after that.
Apple, Google/Android and others already have really great products, for all segments of the market (low end cheap to luxury expensive). Microsoft just doesn't have the cool factor and that is needed in the consumer market. They may do ok in the corporate market.
Sorry I/we see no need for a tablets in our organisation, we are here to work NOT play.
We will stay with our Decktops and Notebooks with WIN7 as WIN8 is the most unproductive O/S, I have ever been asked to use/buy. We are already looking at alternative O/S's to0 Microsoft so if forced we have a place to go. Check out this link to see what alternative, "http://www.zorin-os.com/premium.html", we are currently trailing it and its looking great.
Sorry Microsoft but its a big miss here
We will stay with our Decktops and Notebooks with WIN7 as WIN8 is the most unproductive O/S, I have ever been asked to use/buy. We are already looking at alternative O/S's to0 Microsoft so if forced we have a place to go. Check out this link to see what alternative, "http://www.zorin-os.com/premium.html", we are currently trailing it and its looking great.
Sorry Microsoft but its a big miss here
Maybe some fringe business settings may have a use for tablets; but, the traditional fixed office setting, desktops/laptops will be the major form factor running Windows-7 and XP. As for "going for the cloud," security is paramount in my company. We'll be sticking with tangible backup mechanisms. What are you going to do and who are you going to call when the "cloud goes down?"
You got it right, but the tech writers have to have something to generate discussion (and money for their articles), so the "end of the PC era" and "tablets are the future" will still be parroted for months to come....
The author thinks Microsoft will 'win', but for all the wrong reasons. All you have to do is look at the current offerings to see that the 'cloud' is still not the deciding factor--especially in the way he describes it, as an unlimited, web-based hard drive. That concept has been in use for more than ten years and it's no more successful now as it was then.
No, Microsoft's tablets will rise through one very simple concept: it's integration with the full Windows environment. The simple fact that any app that can run in WinRT will also run in Windows 8 means that information *mobility* is far more convenient and if Microsoft adds an automated synchronization capability between common apps on divergent machines then suddenly mobile computing for the masses is that much easier. The iPad already has this ability and the fact that an iWorks file on an iPad is automatically synchronized to iWorks on OS X for editing and fine-tuning and just as automatically re-synchronized back tot he tablet makes using the tablet a no-thought process. Android's biggest drawback is that it has NO ability to synchronize automatically to any desktop OS--not even Linux. A very quick and simple example of this is when reading a book on an iPad, you can pick up where you left off automatically with any other iOS device on the same user account, including iPhone and iPod Touch; no synchronization trigger necessary.
This is where WinRT will succeed. Over 80% of today's computer users already have Windows at their desks. It is only logical that the Windows-based tablet is the best choice for integration with the habits of the Windows user.
No, Microsoft's tablets will rise through one very simple concept: it's integration with the full Windows environment. The simple fact that any app that can run in WinRT will also run in Windows 8 means that information *mobility* is far more convenient and if Microsoft adds an automated synchronization capability between common apps on divergent machines then suddenly mobile computing for the masses is that much easier. The iPad already has this ability and the fact that an iWorks file on an iPad is automatically synchronized to iWorks on OS X for editing and fine-tuning and just as automatically re-synchronized back tot he tablet makes using the tablet a no-thought process. Android's biggest drawback is that it has NO ability to synchronize automatically to any desktop OS--not even Linux. A very quick and simple example of this is when reading a book on an iPad, you can pick up where you left off automatically with any other iOS device on the same user account, including iPhone and iPod Touch; no synchronization trigger necessary.
This is where WinRT will succeed. Over 80% of today's computer users already have Windows at their desks. It is only logical that the Windows-based tablet is the best choice for integration with the habits of the Windows user.
They are projecting sometime in the 2014/15 time frame. By then, the world will have passed them by. Plus Unity (and Gnome 3) are as bad as the WIn. 8 "Metro". While there are the Unity fanboys just like the Win. 8 fanboys, most who liked Ubuntu through 10.10, dislike Unity. A lot of Ubuntu users have switched ti Mint, ZorinOS, SolutOS or similar.
This is an effective add for the future success of the Windows 8 tablet. The immaturity and the limitations of the Windows RT tablet will be blown away by the 2nd generation of the Windows 8 tablets. The 1st generation of the Windows 8 tablets shouldn't be overlooked. Price is an issue and Microsoft is setting a high price/performance standard with the Surface. Microsoft partners have lots of price room underneath to compete with iPad and Android tablets. This is an interesting time in a market created by Apple and now open to multiple competitors.
Microsoft is missing an ecosystem for consumer entertainment, which is their Achilles heel.
http://blogs.cio.com/windows/17675/windows-8-why-adults-are-so-stupid?source=CIONLE_nlt_insider_2013-01-09_default
Microsoft is missing an ecosystem for consumer entertainment, which is their Achilles heel.
http://blogs.cio.com/windows/17675/windows-8-why-adults-are-so-stupid?source=CIONLE_nlt_insider_2013-01-09_default
Which is precisely why I avoid Apple like the plague. Not all users want a device that can only be used as part of an ecosystem, and most of the people I work with fall into that category. Apple and their solution have their place, but it isn't the only viable vision for what a tablet will be when you look at the broader group of "all potential tablet users".
But they, Apple or MS, aren't forcing you to use the ecosystem. It's there if you need it and can use it. I recently bought an RT it works fine without having to sync up with any of the windows platforms. (No. I'm not a windows biggot, it's just how things worked out).
It's only the Apps in Windows 8 that are part of an ecosystem. The desktop is still open.
(was called Zune) and it now works across, PCs, Xboxs, Windows Phones and W8 tablets, and it's pretty nice on a W8 tablet, you can currently listen to a lot of stuff in full without paying anything - hope it lasts.
When you say that an app in Win8 RT will also work with the regular win 8. Not 100% true. The base Win 8 RT tablet is using an ARM processor, while the higher end is using an Intel [or compatible] processor. so it will depend on which model is used. ARM based apps can't run on x86/x64 and vice versa.
You can also make the full version of Windows 8 run on the Surface RT--if you jailbreak it.
Even worse, there is just an compatibility layer, just like how Wine works, to make the x86 code work on ARM.
I have a desktop running Windows 8 Pro (64 Bit) and I had a tablet convertible running Windows 8 Consumer Preview (32 Bit).
The Win 8 start screen does not have a clock so I installed an app on my desktop called "The Time" that puts up a clock & date tile.
Here's the weird thing, I could not find the app in the Microsoft Market using the Win 8 CP tablet but when I upgraded the OS on the tablet to Windows 8 Enterprise 32 Bit, I was able to find and install the app.
Did I have a subset of apps because I had a demo version of the OS?
The Win 8 start screen does not have a clock so I installed an app on my desktop called "The Time" that puts up a clock & date tile.
Here's the weird thing, I could not find the app in the Microsoft Market using the Win 8 CP tablet but when I upgraded the OS on the tablet to Windows 8 Enterprise 32 Bit, I was able to find and install the app.
Did I have a subset of apps because I had a demo version of the OS?
Within The Bigger Picture I witnessed upon installing System8 over my poor vista, it let me TAKE my PICTURE for my ID, but now, it says I "NEED TO BUY SKYPE CAM" because my Laptop (mysteriously) lost its perfect operating and installed CAM.
Well, it also does not FIND my DVD/CD DRIVE, installed and running... but not to be found within none MS space...
The $ GRAB may be its next TAKE Growth Plan, and the way to make me/you/us to pay for theirs buying skype?!
Well, it also does not FIND my DVD/CD DRIVE, installed and running... but not to be found within none MS space...
The $ GRAB may be its next TAKE Growth Plan, and the way to make me/you/us to pay for theirs buying skype?!
"This is where WinRT will succeed. Over 80% of today's computer users already have Windows at their desks. It is only logical that the Windows-based tablet is the best choice for integration with the habits of the Windows user."
Unfortunately no. Everyone thought that Windows RT would have an advantage over other iOS and Android in the eco system. But perplexingly it didn't happen. Windows RT can't even connect to an AD domain.
Unfortunately no. Everyone thought that Windows RT would have an advantage over other iOS and Android in the eco system. But perplexingly it didn't happen. Windows RT can't even connect to an AD domain.
the great majority of workers do NOT have a business need for a tablet.
So there is a slight advantage over the other tablets.
Vulpine is spot on. You've gained tremendous credibility and respect from me with this post, Vulpine.
Writing this from my Nexus 7, for the record, in Chrome. Android has come so far, but Win 8 is already significantly ahead of it in some major respects.
Writing this from my Nexus 7, for the record, in Chrome. Android has come so far, but Win 8 is already significantly ahead of it in some major respects.
Care to make another wager like the iPad one a couple years ago? I could use some more swag.
I believe Skydrive is Microsoft's choice for syncing across all platforms.
I think you are forgetting about Google Drive.
You can use it on the android to synchronize with your desktop. I can open a file on Android using Polaris or QuickOffice, work on it and save it back to Drive.
I do not disagree with you about Windows 8 & RT. They stand a much better chance in the Enterprise than the other tablets & tablet hybrids.
Welcome back! I have been wondering where you were.
You can use it on the android to synchronize with your desktop. I can open a file on Android using Polaris or QuickOffice, work on it and save it back to Drive.
I do not disagree with you about Windows 8 & RT. They stand a much better chance in the Enterprise than the other tablets & tablet hybrids.
Welcome back! I have been wondering where you were.
Again, the synchronization with both WinRT and iOS is completely automatic and tied to their respective user accounts.
While it is true that you have to save it back to Drive, it would not be difficult to modify Polaris or QuickOffice to autosave it back to Drive once you close the file. - just like Microsoft OneNote does.
due to it having been cut back. But they should run well on the full Surface Pro, however, how well that does will depend on what it costs to have a well set up one when compared to an Ultrabook.
If you are looking for an alternative to the classic desktop or notebook running Windows 7 or 8, sure maybe the new unreleased Surface Pro may be the choice
Tablets e.g. iPads are not meant to be notebook replacements although I use mine for work daily for most task, email, content consumption, web conferences, IM, VPN, minor office document editing, internet browsing
last I read the Surface RT has .13% marketshare in tablets, if the Surface Pro starts at $899, why wouldn't I just have a slim notebook - Dell, HP, Lenovo, Apple.. just to have a touchscreen interface...not hardly
I will not trade in my nice slim 3lb notebook for a Surface Pro just for a touchscreen UI
Will some SMB and Enterprises adopt a SurfacePro from Microsoft or OEMs, sure , will it have a dent in overall tablet sales? Time will tell
Tablets e.g. iPads are not meant to be notebook replacements although I use mine for work daily for most task, email, content consumption, web conferences, IM, VPN, minor office document editing, internet browsing
last I read the Surface RT has .13% marketshare in tablets, if the Surface Pro starts at $899, why wouldn't I just have a slim notebook - Dell, HP, Lenovo, Apple.. just to have a touchscreen interface...not hardly
I will not trade in my nice slim 3lb notebook for a Surface Pro just for a touchscreen UI
Will some SMB and Enterprises adopt a SurfacePro from Microsoft or OEMs, sure , will it have a dent in overall tablet sales? Time will tell
Google comes out with an "android" desktop. After all, it would be difficult since Android is Linux based.
The article could not be further from any of the possible outcomes. I have recently tried a surface and I found it very counter intuitive to use... like most things 'Microsoft' the balance between what is 'exposed' and what is 'hidden' on the UI is just not right usability is not their strength. Considering that the hardware is not the most economic alternative, then why get one?
I do IT field work, and I'm writing this on an Intel-based Win8 tablet. (Acer Aspire W510), which I bought primarily to support our clients that have bought or will buy a MS Surface. I was pretty sure Windows 8 was a big step backwards when I first tried it, but after working with it for the past month, I'm really sold on it. I love my iPad, and I used to use it constantly, but put it aside for the most part, especially for job related tasks.
Win8 was built for the tablet, but doesn't limit you to crippled tablet versions of applications, or web sites. It's really the best of both worlds. With a little more polish, I think they really could come out ahead in the tablet market.
Win8 was built for the tablet, but doesn't limit you to crippled tablet versions of applications, or web sites. It's really the best of both worlds. With a little more polish, I think they really could come out ahead in the tablet market.
Why do we think anyone has to be "top dog"? There are plenty of opportunities for Microsoft, Apple and Google to all meet in their own ways. Microsoft might lose market share in the consumer space, but no one can run manufacturing processes with Apple and Google products! GM dwarfs BMW, but whose car do you really want? And what if you need a heavy duty truck? Does that mean GM or BMW is better? Stop comparing companies in one market only!!!!
"...considering Microsoft essentially invented the tablet category a decade ago"
Who said MS 'essentially invented' the tablet category?
Details, please!
Who said MS 'essentially invented' the tablet category?
Details, please!
Probably referring to the HP TC1100 series that ran Win XP Tablet. But without references, will never know.
In fact and from the start, MS seldom INVENT and mostly BUYS or COPY others success by maintaining its original in into IBM and our wallets and/or accounts.
According to Wikipedia, it would be Intel in 1999. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_computer]. But Microsoft did release an OS for it before the iPad.
see the post "History of tablets" by JVPirate - he (or she) has a reference to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tablet_computers which shows Microsoft being late to the show.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tablet_computers which shows Microsoft being late to the show.
...you must be too young to remember the pen tablets of the late 90s and the turn of the century? Only problem was that hardware hadn't caught up to concept, too bulky, heavy and expensive. Too lazy to "Bing" it? Here you go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tablet_PC
that's close to a decade ago.
It was a Fujitsu Stylistic slate with a dock and wireless keyboard. I think I still have it in storage.
It was a Fujitsu Stylistic slate with a dock and wireless keyboard. I think I still have it in storage.
Personally I hate this moving to the cloud idea. I like having an individual copy of a program/application running on my device locally and independent from any need to have an internet connection. Cetainly having copies of data in accessible is handy but what happens the net goes down or the cloud space breaks for some reason? Can't do the things I want or need to do is what happens.
I agree. The cloud is something I don not see as advancing or as succeeding in business but only for home enteratinment. Its good to share movies and media but as far as cloud based apps or storage of important work no. I see almost no adaption of using the cloud here in the small business world of Chicago and here its hated appearence by almost all. Windows 8 is what will have killed Microsoft. there comes a time when a compnay spits on its consumer base once to many and this may be it. During the beta stages millions let Microsoft know their distatse for the tiles and the start button removal and Microsoft as they have done since Ballmer took control laughed and ifnored its base. WP7 poor sales backed this all up yet a dummy named Ballmer kept on going. Unless Microsoft goes back to filling demand instead of trying to abandone life long demand for new demand it will not work. Gates needs to dust off the brief case fire Ballmer and get back to the basics of filling the needs that are being demanded by the consumer and windows 8 is the exact oppsosite.
about Sinofsky, you will find that Microsoft planned to fire him for quite some time.
He was an abrasive manager. Many at Microsoft were unhappy with him for a long time.
He was an abrasive manager. Many at Microsoft were unhappy with him for a long time.
Y E S, I agree = but, Mostly, if they make it work on older computers, like in my case of success and discovery = how they will make much more $ on us, by this SURFACE designed operating, yet not sufficient system without employing the WISDOM contained within USCIIIIII CODE solution war, we are winning... for listening and talking, singing and thinking machines we have named EchoLogical Computer-Robots.
it will run on "older" H/W until you find out you need to find drivers for the "older" peripherals. BTW, I also read the next kernel of Linux is going to stop supporting 32 bit machines. Some Linux distros do quite well on older H/W and peripherals.
This article tells you nothing other than this guy likes his Microsoft tablet. Big whoop. And to read it, you'd think that Google doesn't even exist. What a laugh. Microsoft is an anachronism in search of a mission.
They have enough money that they'll be in business for a good while to come, but even the biggest names in computing have gone bye-bye. Honeywell, DEC, SGI, Sun... all faded memories. Microsoft isn't next, but they're on the long slow slide to irrelevance.
They have enough money that they'll be in business for a good while to come, but even the biggest names in computing have gone bye-bye. Honeywell, DEC, SGI, Sun... all faded memories. Microsoft isn't next, but they're on the long slow slide to irrelevance.
unlike IBM, they do not have their foot in the door with the sales and services support.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tablet_computers
This might take some confusion out of the above
This might take some confusion out of the above
Isn't the cloud based office 365 MS's solution to mobile platforms? Is there really any likely hood that they will dump a bunch of money into installed apps when office 365 already provides that functionality?
Bill
Bill
bucks each month on Internet download fees in every country outside North America.
> ...Microsoft may still win the tablet war...
Yeah, and that would be about as disastrous as Osama BinLaden winning.... (oh wait, he did, if you consider his goal being to destroy American freedoms...).
Yeah, and that would be about as disastrous as Osama BinLaden winning.... (oh wait, he did, if you consider his goal being to destroy American freedoms...).
I have been an Android user for years. I had a chance to go with a Windows Phone but decided Instead to go iPhone 5. But my customer base still do not use iPhones but are still the past remnants of laptop owners unlike the curve we see everywhere else. As a result, they will be the purchasers of Windows 8 laptops and therefore be the latest adopters of tablets and smartphones. What will they pick? Considering they are typically older people who have suffered through the Windows 8 Experience and want to get the smartphone with the least steep learning curve... Enter the Windows smartphone which works the same way as the desktop or laptop or even netbook they have chosen because they are afraid of change and, as much as I love my iPhone goodbye will go the Apple market share for baby boomer revenge and the Supremacy of the Windows Phone. There are way more comfort windows phone seekers than Apple Koolaid Drinkers.
sit easily in the pocket. I use a cell phone to make and receive phone calls - and that's all I want it to do.
A smart phone and/or tablet is not so much a phone as much as it is a fully functional Pocket Computer/Web browser/Email client/ Personal information manager (PIM), beeper, 4G Wireless Router, Game boy, MP3 player, flashlight, digital camera, HD Camcorder, Video conferencing machine, on demand TV and Video player, FM Radio, GPS, Tape recorder/Dictation machine, Calculator, Alarm clock, Stop watch, Electronic Book /Magazine/Comic book/ News paper reader, a tool that can take a picture of a wine,beer, food or product label, bar code etc and searches the internet for it (Goggle Goggles) that just happens to be able to (some times) make phone calls.
It has a compass that pin points your location and direction you are facing on google maps. THAT is worth the price alone.
you are on the Windows phone talking to an important customer when right in mid-sentence, you are cut off as "patch Tuesday" commences and takes a half-hour to install all those security patches (due to an insecure OS).
This discussion has been taken to The Water Cooler / View thread
to perform any of the productivity functions a computer does; but does have enough functionality to be a nice consumer media toy.
Droid has only been in production for 4-5 years, BTW mobile devices are the future of computing.
http://www.businessinsider.com/mary-meekers-latest-incredibly-insightful-presentation-about-the-state-of-the-web-2012-5?op=1
In 10 year mobile devices will dominate the market.
http://www.businessinsider.com/mary-meekers-latest-incredibly-insightful-presentation-about-the-state-of-the-web-2012-5?op=1
In 10 year mobile devices will dominate the market.
Actually I manage quite nicely. Let me look at what I have installed. I have an Office productivity suite that I can use to edit and view Excel, Powerpoint and Word documents. An email client that connects to Exchange Server with Outlook Mail, Calendar and Contacts. I have a Gmail client that allows me to read email while off line as well as Evernote, Firefox, Google Chrome, FTP and SSH/telnet clients, PDF/eBook reader and Word to PDF converter, Google drive/Dropbox, Skype, graphics editor, a code/HTML editor, etc. etc. So I have all the productivity applications that anyone would need to be productive in a business environment. Hell, I even installed a web server. The only thing I have not been able to find is a high end graphics editor like Photoshop and the code editor is a bit lacking but works well enough. When I hook up a mouse and keyboard I can get pretty freakin close to being as productive as I would be on a regular desktop. If need be I can always RDP onto my desktop (VPN is built in) and work from my desktop. And yeah, I do have multimedia apps, Emagazines and some games installed. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. Besides the display is something like 320 DPI and high definition videos look absolutely gorgeous.
To clarify, this is a high end tablet with a 9 in screen. It has a data connection so it can be used as a phone. So it is a smart phone just with a really big screen
Besides the display is something like 320 DPI and high definition videos look absolutely gorgeous.To clarify, this is a high end tablet with a 9 in screen. It has a data connection so it can be used as a phone. So it is a smart phone just with a really big screen
Expecting MS to win the Tablet War is akin to expecting a horse to win a 2 mile race after giving its competitors a 1.9 mile head start.
The reason iPad was a runaway success is because Apple designed it as a true consumer product with a user interface that even a 4 year old can figure out in a very short period of time. If you put Surfaces in the hands of of a bunch of pre schoolers, they'd probably give up on it within a few minutes.
Microsoft may well make inroads to the corporate and SME markets who place more emphasis on the tablet as a productivity tool that integrates well with their current I.T. infrastructure, but that is not going to give MS global dominance in the tablet space.
Microsoft should have stayed out of the hardware business and focussed on software that runs across multiple platforms. With 100 million iPads out there, why haven't they released Office for iOS? They could sell the suite for $50 and make $0.5 billion in sales with 10% uptake. Apple's iWork apps are amog the top grossing productivity tools in the App Store, probably because they are the closest thing to Office apps that is available. The stats would be a whole lot different if Office for iOS was an option at a similar price point.
Steve Ballmer needs to swallow his ego and view the iPad population as a huge marketing opportunity instead of seeing Apple as his mortal enemy who needs to be crushed.
And of course, the same applies to the opportunity for MS in the Android space.
The reason iPad was a runaway success is because Apple designed it as a true consumer product with a user interface that even a 4 year old can figure out in a very short period of time. If you put Surfaces in the hands of of a bunch of pre schoolers, they'd probably give up on it within a few minutes.
Microsoft may well make inroads to the corporate and SME markets who place more emphasis on the tablet as a productivity tool that integrates well with their current I.T. infrastructure, but that is not going to give MS global dominance in the tablet space.
Microsoft should have stayed out of the hardware business and focussed on software that runs across multiple platforms. With 100 million iPads out there, why haven't they released Office for iOS? They could sell the suite for $50 and make $0.5 billion in sales with 10% uptake. Apple's iWork apps are amog the top grossing productivity tools in the App Store, probably because they are the closest thing to Office apps that is available. The stats would be a whole lot different if Office for iOS was an option at a similar price point.
Steve Ballmer needs to swallow his ego and view the iPad population as a huge marketing opportunity instead of seeing Apple as his mortal enemy who needs to be crushed.
And of course, the same applies to the opportunity for MS in the Android space.
Hardly a "war."
Apple has the consumer market, which MS is desperately trying to muscle in against Apple with tablets running Windows-8. Good luck.
Microsoft is/has alienated the business/enterprise market with its touch-centric tablet-oriented Windows-8, which contains very little for the business/enterprise market. Not a wise move.
When will MS wake up and give the business/enterprise market a significant improvement over Windows-7? Windows-9? [Doubtful that Windows-8 will have a major UI update for laptops/desktops users...arrogance gets in the way.]
Apple has the consumer market, which MS is desperately trying to muscle in against Apple with tablets running Windows-8. Good luck.
Microsoft is/has alienated the business/enterprise market with its touch-centric tablet-oriented Windows-8, which contains very little for the business/enterprise market. Not a wise move.
When will MS wake up and give the business/enterprise market a significant improvement over Windows-7? Windows-9? [Doubtful that Windows-8 will have a major UI update for laptops/desktops users...arrogance gets in the way.]
I've been looking for what I've been calling "my last computer" for a few months. I wanted something with loads of RAM, loads of HDD space and expansion room and with as many extras as I could find [BD, TV card, memory card slots, USB 3 and any other goodies that were available.]. I seriously considered a Linux box and a desktop Mac Pro as I could run Windows on one of those in addition to whatever native OS they came with.
I decided, yesterday, to go to a retail shop where I could play with the latest and greatest boxes, or at least those available on the shelves. I thought it would help me at least to eliminate things I *don't* want. [Unwanted advice number 1: *never* go to play with the nice shiny boxes unless you want to come home with one.]
Vast swathes of shelving were given over to W8 machines. There were the odd few Win7 boxes and a lot of tablets and some laptops and many Apple boxes but most of the Windows desktops and laptops were W8.
I played with just about all of them. HP, Sony, Samsung, Asus and many others, all sorts of prices and specifications. After about the tenth machine I tried, I noticed I was doing something strange on *all* of the W8 machines: I immediately clicked on the "Desktop" tile. I ignored W8 and all its prettiness completely and jumped to the more familiar interface that looks like Windows 7, Win98, Win95 and WinMe (not very much like WinME but a little). I could immediately discern the specifications of the installed software and the hardware in the Classic interface but I didn't even bother to *try* to find out how to do it in W8.
I saw a really lovely Win7 machine with all the things I needed ["needed" being euphemistic and really meaning "it was all shiny and big and I wanted it"] and I bought it. It was thrice the price of a quite powerful W8 box but it had more bits, more grunt, more room and a vastly easier to use OS.
As I've mentioned, I doubt I'll be buying another box, unless the world gets really unlucky and I turn out to be immortal in which case I'll need something in about a hundred years or so, maybe sooner but not by much.
I never *considered* buying a W8 box nor buying an Apple machine and loading W8 onto it. I did think of running Win7, WinXP and earlier OSes as VMs but I never saw myself loading W8.
Being retired, I no longer need to keep up with new OSes and from what little I've seen of it I have no interest in learning W8 for fun.
I think I'll just skip it.
I realise I'm not typical of the computer-buying public. I know lots, I've seen lots, I've broken many OSes and helped fix them and I am in the enviable position of doing computing for fun, now, as my hobby. I have an Android tablet, a MacBook Pro and an XP box, and now a Win7 giant of a machine. I think I have way enough toys.
What my choice of new box tells anyone is that *I* didn't like the look and feel of W8 and I don't have the patience to acquire the taste for it. I doubt I'm very representative of any market but I did notice that few others were playing with the new W8 machines; most were fiddling with the Macs and the tablets. That may have been a matter of timing, of course.
I hope Microsoft can make a go of W8; one OS to rule them all seems like a noble goal and a brilliant idea, but I don't think I'll buy it.
Indeed, I didn't.
I decided, yesterday, to go to a retail shop where I could play with the latest and greatest boxes, or at least those available on the shelves. I thought it would help me at least to eliminate things I *don't* want. [Unwanted advice number 1: *never* go to play with the nice shiny boxes unless you want to come home with one.]
Vast swathes of shelving were given over to W8 machines. There were the odd few Win7 boxes and a lot of tablets and some laptops and many Apple boxes but most of the Windows desktops and laptops were W8.
I played with just about all of them. HP, Sony, Samsung, Asus and many others, all sorts of prices and specifications. After about the tenth machine I tried, I noticed I was doing something strange on *all* of the W8 machines: I immediately clicked on the "Desktop" tile. I ignored W8 and all its prettiness completely and jumped to the more familiar interface that looks like Windows 7, Win98, Win95 and WinMe (not very much like WinME but a little). I could immediately discern the specifications of the installed software and the hardware in the Classic interface but I didn't even bother to *try* to find out how to do it in W8.
I saw a really lovely Win7 machine with all the things I needed ["needed" being euphemistic and really meaning "it was all shiny and big and I wanted it"] and I bought it. It was thrice the price of a quite powerful W8 box but it had more bits, more grunt, more room and a vastly easier to use OS.
As I've mentioned, I doubt I'll be buying another box, unless the world gets really unlucky and I turn out to be immortal in which case I'll need something in about a hundred years or so, maybe sooner but not by much.
I never *considered* buying a W8 box nor buying an Apple machine and loading W8 onto it. I did think of running Win7, WinXP and earlier OSes as VMs but I never saw myself loading W8.
Being retired, I no longer need to keep up with new OSes and from what little I've seen of it I have no interest in learning W8 for fun.
I think I'll just skip it.
I realise I'm not typical of the computer-buying public. I know lots, I've seen lots, I've broken many OSes and helped fix them and I am in the enviable position of doing computing for fun, now, as my hobby. I have an Android tablet, a MacBook Pro and an XP box, and now a Win7 giant of a machine. I think I have way enough toys.
What my choice of new box tells anyone is that *I* didn't like the look and feel of W8 and I don't have the patience to acquire the taste for it. I doubt I'm very representative of any market but I did notice that few others were playing with the new W8 machines; most were fiddling with the Macs and the tablets. That may have been a matter of timing, of course.
I hope Microsoft can make a go of W8; one OS to rule them all seems like a noble goal and a brilliant idea, but I don't think I'll buy it.
Indeed, I didn't.
Sorry, it won't replace the iPad. The keyboard is cool, but ms still has yet to be innovative. The price of the keyboard + tablet > iPad
Apple has the best ui's. period. Ms continues to copy that with windows 8, which is a lot better. Google is just a Linux box with so many points to get hacked its like a pc without mcafee.
Windows 8 phone is looks promising though.
Apple has the best ui's. period. Ms continues to copy that with windows 8, which is a lot better. Google is just a Linux box with so many points to get hacked its like a pc without mcafee.
Windows 8 phone is looks promising though.
the Linux OS is much more secure than the Windows OS. You don't see regular "security patches" every week for Linux like you do for Windows. The Linux kernel was built on a sound base. The Windows kernel was built on a GIGO base.
Whether Surface goes down in the history books as a winner or a loser could depend a lot on how you define the battlefield....
Apple carefully engineered the iPad not to compete with its desktop and laptop products; Amazon, Google, etc generally don't have such products, but designed their tablets to complement whatever customers might already have....
But in announcing Surface, Microsoft proclaimed "This is your next PC". So what matters isn't so much how well Surface does against other tablets -- to be a winner *by Microsoft's chosen criteria*, it has to destroy the existing Windows laptop market (and make a significant dent in desktops, too).
Not that it's impossible -- it just seems to set the bar unnecessarily high. It *might* give Home Server a boost, as the home for work currently done on desktops that doesn't conveniently shift to a tablet.
Apple carefully engineered the iPad not to compete with its desktop and laptop products; Amazon, Google, etc generally don't have such products, but designed their tablets to complement whatever customers might already have....
But in announcing Surface, Microsoft proclaimed "This is your next PC". So what matters isn't so much how well Surface does against other tablets -- to be a winner *by Microsoft's chosen criteria*, it has to destroy the existing Windows laptop market (and make a significant dent in desktops, too).
Not that it's impossible -- it just seems to set the bar unnecessarily high. It *might* give Home Server a boost, as the home for work currently done on desktops that doesn't conveniently shift to a tablet.
Yup. If all goes well, we'll have a contender, for sure.
My take on the RT Surface is that it's not ready for prime time. If my iPad worked like an RT Surface, I would consider it broken. Not impressive and it took me all of 15 minutes to put it in the 'irrelevant' bin. Later, when the Intel unit ships, I'll give it another look. MS has plenty of time and money to get it right, but the RT was rushed and I can see early adopters being set up for a 2013 disappointment.
Meanwhile, Apple has the market AND Apple has the +$1000 market for computers, virtually 100%. Fascinating change in roles.
My take on the RT Surface is that it's not ready for prime time. If my iPad worked like an RT Surface, I would consider it broken. Not impressive and it took me all of 15 minutes to put it in the 'irrelevant' bin. Later, when the Intel unit ships, I'll give it another look. MS has plenty of time and money to get it right, but the RT was rushed and I can see early adopters being set up for a 2013 disappointment.
Meanwhile, Apple has the market AND Apple has the +$1000 market for computers, virtually 100%. Fascinating change in roles.
The surface is not a tablet and not a laptop, it has the worst features of both. You can really modify it. You can't really extend it. The Metro GUI has the utility of a boat anchor used as tennis racket, it has detachable (read, you will lose it) parts and I could go on, but ... if you are unlucky enough to buy one you will find out. The only thing it is for is content hogs to passively slice of bright cheap trinkets at steep prices. A real pay for play trap if I saw one. Microsoft is trying to slither into web pay content market like Google and Apple. All the surface is good for is just that a surface like a placemate for my dinner plate maybe.
I agree that the tablet market isn't a "war" and there is room in the market for both consumption devices and creation devices. Where Microsoft has already succeeded is bringing a content creation tablet to market.
Windows 8 isn't counter-intuitive, its just different. It presents all your relevant data - emails, texts, IM's, news, weather, sports, etc - right to the home screen so you don't have ot go to the web or open an app to see what's what. That in itself is a welcome alternative to my Android device.
Win RT has its place but its silly to compare it to iOS or Android when its only been out for three months. It too is a consumption device and I dare say the Start screen makes it more handy than any other tablet out there for that very reason.
There is nothing like a tablet running Win 8 Pro for anyone who needs to be mobile. For sales, teaching professionals, mobile service people, doctors, trial lawyers, students and creative types its a fantastic tool.
Tablets running Win 8 Pro are where all the action will be. While running Office is a big advantage, so is being able to run Photoshop and Illustrator. Microsoft is right, The Surface Pro and other Windows 8 Pro tablets aren't a threat to the iPad or Android market, its a threat to the laptop space. In that regard, I think it will be a huge win.
One more discussion point: the first to market usually enjoys a heyday, but rarely ends up being the dominant player a few years later. The iPad came out a mere two and a half years ago, so you do the math.
Windows 8 isn't counter-intuitive, its just different. It presents all your relevant data - emails, texts, IM's, news, weather, sports, etc - right to the home screen so you don't have ot go to the web or open an app to see what's what. That in itself is a welcome alternative to my Android device.
Win RT has its place but its silly to compare it to iOS or Android when its only been out for three months. It too is a consumption device and I dare say the Start screen makes it more handy than any other tablet out there for that very reason.
There is nothing like a tablet running Win 8 Pro for anyone who needs to be mobile. For sales, teaching professionals, mobile service people, doctors, trial lawyers, students and creative types its a fantastic tool.
Tablets running Win 8 Pro are where all the action will be. While running Office is a big advantage, so is being able to run Photoshop and Illustrator. Microsoft is right, The Surface Pro and other Windows 8 Pro tablets aren't a threat to the iPad or Android market, its a threat to the laptop space. In that regard, I think it will be a huge win.
One more discussion point: the first to market usually enjoys a heyday, but rarely ends up being the dominant player a few years later. The iPad came out a mere two and a half years ago, so you do the math.
It may still win because of IT departments.
If you are an IT department, it is a pain to support so many devices. The easiest devices for IT to support are Windows devices. The cost for IT to support a computer for 1 year is cheaper if the OS is windows. That is why Windows owns enterprise desktops. Apple just isn't there when it comes to IT yet and while Linux is there, it is not there when it comes to business desktop software (especially the in-house proprietary apps that are .NET only).
So now if the computer and the tablet are the same OS, then you can use the same IT knowledge and you don't have to spend on retraining, etc...
Soon you will see IT departments push for the Surface because it is more cost effective from an IT perspective.
If you are an IT department, it is a pain to support so many devices. The easiest devices for IT to support are Windows devices. The cost for IT to support a computer for 1 year is cheaper if the OS is windows. That is why Windows owns enterprise desktops. Apple just isn't there when it comes to IT yet and while Linux is there, it is not there when it comes to business desktop software (especially the in-house proprietary apps that are .NET only).
So now if the computer and the tablet are the same OS, then you can use the same IT knowledge and you don't have to spend on retraining, etc...
Soon you will see IT departments push for the Surface because it is more cost effective from an IT perspective.
the war of car makers? Is Ford going to capture the entire market?
This question makes as much sense as asking who will win the tablet wars. ie None.
This question makes as much sense as asking who will win the tablet wars. ie None.
Patrick, since which end of the universe did Microsoft not attempt to control everything? You would have to have lived in a bubble to not know the ends they went to, to crush any & all opponents in every possible sphere imaginable. Microsoft were a scummy monopoliser & proved it many times over. Are you deliberately attempting to muddy Microsoft's perverse past?
"Microsoft also seems a bit more pragmatic and less dogmatic than Apple" on the other hand has some basis in truth, by microscopic shards only. Apple have the crown at the moment but they have it only by a nibble. Microsoft continue their efforts in attempting to shut out "free" software, something that Apple quietly (not so now) in the past hated even more.
Are you paid by these people to use a pragmatic spin to make these scummy companies appear better than they are?
"Microsoft also seems a bit more pragmatic and less dogmatic than Apple" on the other hand has some basis in truth, by microscopic shards only. Apple have the crown at the moment but they have it only by a nibble. Microsoft continue their efforts in attempting to shut out "free" software, something that Apple quietly (not so now) in the past hated even more.
Are you paid by these people to use a pragmatic spin to make these scummy companies appear better than they are?
As long as Ballmer is at the top any success will be based on coincidence and not on strategy. The examples given above are hardly making a compelling case. There are numerous better, friendlier and safer alternatives for SkyDrive that work on almost all platforms out there. The Microsoft hardware is still hard to find in many places and as soon as it becomes widely available the crapware will be included. On top of that do you really want your people to work with open systems where they can easily copy and upload data from and to a tablet. The openness might work out to be a nightmare if you are in charge of anything from a medical facility to a research center.
While Microsoft does produce an "Office" for iOS it is a diluted product. For instance, earlier versions could not run macros (I am not sure what the current situation is) and it does not have the basic - menu shortcuts, e.g. -F for "File". In any case, the quality is not consistent over the different M$Office products (Word is nowhere near the quality of Excel). Other products, like Libre Office and Open Office have filled the gap to some extent, but not fully. An enterprising software publisher could target this gap. Microsoft did best when most computer users were computer semi-literate. As computer skills have grown, their FUD advantage has diminished. With the growth of "Bring Your Own Devices" the buying decision is shifting from IT departments (where once "no-one ever got fired for buying IBM") which tend to favour the Microsoft corporate marketing pitch to the users, who favour user-friendly products (and what their brother-in-law, neighbour or kids have on their smartphones or tablets).
Where have you seen Office for iOS? Are you sure you're not confusing this with Office for Mac OS? iOS and Mac OS are 2 completely different animals.
I've been patiently waiting for the Surface to come out because, quite frankly, I'm not a fan of Apple. This is mostly for personal reasons so please don't take this as a condemnation of the 'i' crowd in general. I've been playing with Window's 8 on my home desktop for some time now, and despite my earlier preconceived misgivings, I have come to actually enjoy using it. Sure there are certain aspects of it that I just don't get and don't understand Microsoft's logic in the how and why of certain features which were incorporated. I also found pretty much all of the apps contained in their app store to be too dumbed down and childish for me to really want to use. It's for this reason that I've been holding out for the Surface Pro. I want to run "real" programs... the ones that I use on my desktop on a day to day basis and not be corralled into using these limited functionality apps from the app store. Herein lies the problem though.... While the touch screen format of the tablet format is fun and pretty cool... it's not a necessity for me. As a matter of fact, the one thing that I really like about the surface is the attachable keyboard so I don't have to loose a good portion of my screen to the virtual keyboard. In talking with the sales rep from the Window's store, however, I now understand that the Surface pro, with a keyboard would be chiming in right at around the $1,000 mark (or more). Why in the hell would I want to pay that much money to effectively do what my $200 Acer net-book will already do? For the fun of having a touch screen? I think not! And while the rep at the MS store could certainly convince me that when compared to a comparable iPad device, you might get more bang for your buck with the Surface Pro that would only be an effective argument IF I were willing to pay that much for an iPad as well... which I would not. Sorry folks but I'm not willing to become a tablet Lemming. The computer... desktop, net-book, tablet (whatever) is a tool... plain and simple. whether used for work or play, it's a tool that has to have a viable cost-benefit ratio and a tablet, any tablet, with it's inherit limitations that costs 2, 3 or 4 times more than a comparably equipped laptop or net-book doesn't make sense to me. When (and if) a tablet is produced that can run a full off the shelf version of Windows 7 or 8 is available for under $500 I will consider it but for $1,000... they're high! Finally, with respects to "the cloud"... Again.... A nifty OPTION for storing data and accessing it from multiple devices but I'm not always connected to the internet when I have to do my work. If a program only runs (or only fully runs) when connected to the internet or if the data I rely upon is only available when I'm on-line then it doesn't work for me and I'll be darned if I'm going to pay for it.
It seems odd you don't mention the most important factor with the Surface in the Enterprise; the wait for the Surface with Win8 Pro. This will put full OS on the surface and allow Office, either local or 365 (cloud edition). Need to do a better job of research or at least tell why you are not talking about what is comming down the pipe line.
"Microsoft may still win the tablet war?"..... no not so much.
Microsoft became the modern version of :"IBM of the 1980's", too big to fail to huge to change. Vista release set the stage for future disaster. Windows 7 pumped half the water out, but Windows 8 has opened a new gaping hole in their marketing strategy. Tat combined with unclear direction to developers early on, nope, they are an also ran when they should be leading the industry.
Microsoft is suffering now from same problem that faced IBM in the 1990's. Too many irons in the fire, unclear future, slipped release dates. R&D is great, problem Microsoft is coming to the market with a product that is functionally obsolete.
you only get so many "do overs".....IMHO Microsoft is on their last one.
Microsoft became the modern version of :"IBM of the 1980's", too big to fail to huge to change. Vista release set the stage for future disaster. Windows 7 pumped half the water out, but Windows 8 has opened a new gaping hole in their marketing strategy. Tat combined with unclear direction to developers early on, nope, they are an also ran when they should be leading the industry.
Microsoft is suffering now from same problem that faced IBM in the 1990's. Too many irons in the fire, unclear future, slipped release dates. R&D is great, problem Microsoft is coming to the market with a product that is functionally obsolete.
you only get so many "do overs".....IMHO Microsoft is on their last one.
I'm not sure that people will accept Microsoft as the only manufacturer of the the windows tablet. Yes Apple has somehow convinced people that putting all their eggs (hardware and software) in basket is a good idea but I'm not sure that the "Windows" crowd is the same animal. I'm not an Apple fan in any way. Nor am I a Microsoft fan. I'm a fan of having choice. I don't believe that combining hardware and software together into one vendor exclusively is good for the market.
I'm both a windows and Apple user, and I have to say that the reliability of Apple products is higher, because Apple is in control of both hardware and OS design - upgrades just work. Compare this with Windows OS upgrades, where you can't be sure if your hardware will even run the next version. I've had experience where some hardware component manufacturers don't even supply updated drivers for new Windows versions, so I had to buy a new component hat worked with the newer OS. I think Microsoft is trying to take Apple's lead in this regard with Surface. Whether it will bear fruit in the market place is another story.
Of course there's the risk of a single hardware/software vendor holding you to ransom for their products as there's nowhere else to shop, but Apple tends to remain vigilant of it competition and sets its prices accordingly, particularly for its software.
Of course there's the risk of a single hardware/software vendor holding you to ransom for their products as there's nowhere else to shop, but Apple tends to remain vigilant of it competition and sets its prices accordingly, particularly for its software.
Microsofts's poor software on its own hardware is just another opportunity for people to make it better by running Linux on it. The irony that will arise should that happen given Microsoft's attempts with Win8 and UEFI to block the running of other OS on its hardware. Not a walled garden? Going to be an open platform? I think not.
After reading this, I have no idea why Microsoft would win the tablet war?
I'm waiting for the tablet that has a full OS. Microsoft is bringing it! On the micosft surface with win 8 pro, ill be able to do all the stuff I do with my pc in a tablet. I think that the real problem with current tablets & the IOS.
And for 10 years nobody used it because the software wasn't touch-centric or even touch-friendly despite the fact that the OS made touch usable in every single app.
"And for 10 years nobody used it"
Nobody = not enough people
and I still say the stylus is a much better input method than fingers.
Nobody = not enough people
and I still say the stylus is a much better input method than fingers.
capacitive touch screen display--including the PC all-in-ones and laptops currently available. You want stylus, you have stylus. The point Jobs made was that you shouldn't NEED a stylus to make it work.
I agree that you shouldn't NEED a stylus to make some things work on a tablet but I NEED a stylus for my line of work.
I work for a biotech company where I interact with research scientists, clinicians, administrators, process engineers, and IT professionals. Since I have over 30 years of experience in research, engineering, and IT, I attend a lot of meetings where I need to take handwritten notes and draw lots of network infrastructure diagrams, org charts, rough graphs, equations, etc. I use a fine stylus in MS OneNote.
A virtual keyboard would not cut it for me. It is slower than handwriting for me. I use a lot of symbols when I take notes that the keyboard either does not have or has buried under several layers.
While a capacitive stylus is passable for casual notes and drawings, comparing it to a resistive (think Wacom) pen, is like using a fat felt-tip marker when you need a mechanical pencil. The biggest problem with a capacitive stylus is that you can not see precisely where you are writing. A resistive stylus has a thin tip on the end making it vastly more useful for drawing as well as selecting small icons, tabs, radio buttons, drop down arrows, and text. (especially with legacy programs)
It is much better than a capacitive stylus and vastly better than a finger.
The nice thing is the different input methods are not mutually exclusive.
I use my finger to swipe the screen and my stylus for finer motor movements.
I do the same on my Windows 8 convertible tablet, my 7" n-trig stylus supported android tablet, and my s Pen supported Galaxy Note II.
I work for a biotech company where I interact with research scientists, clinicians, administrators, process engineers, and IT professionals. Since I have over 30 years of experience in research, engineering, and IT, I attend a lot of meetings where I need to take handwritten notes and draw lots of network infrastructure diagrams, org charts, rough graphs, equations, etc. I use a fine stylus in MS OneNote.
A virtual keyboard would not cut it for me. It is slower than handwriting for me. I use a lot of symbols when I take notes that the keyboard either does not have or has buried under several layers.
While a capacitive stylus is passable for casual notes and drawings, comparing it to a resistive (think Wacom) pen, is like using a fat felt-tip marker when you need a mechanical pencil. The biggest problem with a capacitive stylus is that you can not see precisely where you are writing. A resistive stylus has a thin tip on the end making it vastly more useful for drawing as well as selecting small icons, tabs, radio buttons, drop down arrows, and text. (especially with legacy programs)
It is much better than a capacitive stylus and vastly better than a finger.
The nice thing is the different input methods are not mutually exclusive.
I use my finger to swipe the screen and my stylus for finer motor movements.
I do the same on my Windows 8 convertible tablet, my 7" n-trig stylus supported android tablet, and my s Pen supported Galaxy Note II.
Granted, they use a broad clear plastic tip to help prevent scratches on the glass, but they have that 1mm or less diameter tip.
That said, I've also clearly stated that while no one device is best for all, there are enough choices now that each person can find what's best for them. What I dislike are people who try to claim one device is best for all or those who try to claim some device is useless for all. Just because one brand or device is disliked by one doesn't mean everyone would or should dislike it.
That said, I've also clearly stated that while no one device is best for all, there are enough choices now that each person can find what's best for them. What I dislike are people who try to claim one device is best for all or those who try to claim some device is useless for all. Just because one brand or device is disliked by one doesn't mean everyone would or should dislike it.
What I said was, "I agree that you shouldn't NEED a stylus to make some things work on a tablet but I NEED a stylus for my line of work."
I understand that many people have different computing needs.
FYI:
The broad spongy (plastic?) tip on the end of a capacitive stylus is not there to prevent scratches. It is there because a capacitive screen requires a larger surface area of contact to work properly. I know because I have experimented with capacitive styli by trimming them down. You cannot get them to work reliably when they are trimmed down to a pen-sized tip. If they could design them more like pens, companies would manufacture them.
By the way, I have never seen any capacitive styli with a clear end. Could you send me a link? Thanks.
I understand that many people have different computing needs.
FYI:
The broad spongy (plastic?) tip on the end of a capacitive stylus is not there to prevent scratches. It is there because a capacitive screen requires a larger surface area of contact to work properly. I know because I have experimented with capacitive styli by trimming them down. You cannot get them to work reliably when they are trimmed down to a pen-sized tip. If they could design them more like pens, companies would manufacture them.
By the way, I have never seen any capacitive styli with a clear end. Could you send me a link? Thanks.
This discussion has been taken to The Water Cooler / View thread
- Keyboard Shortcuts:
- Prev
- Next
- Toggle
