You mention that the software problem is a big considerable for you... RT has a lackluster app store, but the Pro will run any desktop app you can throw at it. How is this a problem? Is this not far, far better than any tablet that's come out yet?
For me, the ability to run any Win8/Win7 capable desktop applications is the sole reason I'm going to get one. For that, I can take the hit on battery life.
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Hi Jack,
The problem with Windows 8 isn't the over all software catalog, but applications that specifically work in tablet mode. As I tried to convey in the article, my ideal machine would be one that works like a traditional laptop (a use case Surface Pro nails) and one that can compete with the iPad in Tablet mode (where Surface Pro and RT fail).
Frankly, I don't care if Apple creates an iPad that will run Photoshop and Word, or Microsoft gets the Tablet side of Windows 8 working, neither can do both at this stage of the game. I find Microsoft seems to be thinking more clearly in this direction, and has come frustratingly close to executing on it, but for the reasons articulated in the article it's not yet there for my usage.
The problem with Windows 8 isn't the over all software catalog, but applications that specifically work in tablet mode. As I tried to convey in the article, my ideal machine would be one that works like a traditional laptop (a use case Surface Pro nails) and one that can compete with the iPad in Tablet mode (where Surface Pro and RT fail).
Frankly, I don't care if Apple creates an iPad that will run Photoshop and Word, or Microsoft gets the Tablet side of Windows 8 working, neither can do both at this stage of the game. I find Microsoft seems to be thinking more clearly in this direction, and has come frustratingly close to executing on it, but for the reasons articulated in the article it's not yet there for my usage.
Ah, I didn't see that come through very well in the article. A fair point, though for myself it's more the "tablet that acts like a PC" that's the selling point. After all, we can expect that the available apps will grow, likely at an exponential rate from here on out.
I'm really rooting for the concept of "one device to rule them all," especially since MSFT seems to be the one that "gets" it conceptually at this point. We just need execution to catch up to the concept.
MSFT has got the concept right, the Surface W8 is not an annoying toy, I have to run virtualbox, Linux virtual machines and eclipse on whatever I use to replace my current Core i5 notebook running W8 Pro. My current notebook is fast and sort of light. I would go for a Surface if it had the power of my current Asus K-53.
"the Pro will run any desktop app you can throw at it" Not my experience! We've tried our astronomy software on Win 8 and most it and/or drivers won't install or run. Everything works on Win 7...
That's a W8 issue, not a Surface Pro one. I acknowledge you can't get a Surface without W8, but if the application won't run on any W8 platform then it's not a hardware issue.
If the Surface is a true Wintel platform, then it should be able to run Win7, and possibly Win XP 64-bit (drivers being an issue.) 7 And XP may not handle the touch screen too well, but (again with the drivers) could handle the pen input. An interesting thing to look at is to see if someone can get the touch screen input to translate to something like touch pad input, for times when it's inconvenient to use the actual pad on the keycover. As for the rest of the hardware, the specs look like about everything else that Win 7 already runs on with Ultrabooks. Don't forget there's always virtual XP mode over Win7/8--have fun with that.
It still has the same issues as its ancestors--the full desktop Windows. Yes, it does have everything so many people demanded was "absolutely necessary for any tablet" when the iPad came out, but every one of those arguments ignored the fact that tablets with desktop Windows had been out for almost a decade even then. The only difference now is that the device is easier to carry and lighter in weight, yet still suffers with next to no battery life which was one of its main failings originally. Add to this that the vast majority of Windows apps are STILL not touch-centric and the Surface Pro simply loses every advantage it should have.
While it is true that legacy programs built for windows 7 and earler windows operating systems are not "touch centric", programs on the Surface pro and other windows 8 tablets with a stylus are "stylus friendly".
I have been using a stylus with all of my Windows tablets since 2003.
You can do anything with a non-capacitive stylus in Windows 8 that you can do with a mouse. Often times, you can do it much faster and more accurately with a stylus vs. a mouse. This has been true since Windows XP for Tablets.
Please refrain from repeating the old stylus-causes-screen-damage story. It just has not been true any of the Windows Fujitsu, InMotion, HP, and Lenovo tablets I have ever used.
I have been using a stylus with all of my Windows tablets since 2003.
You can do anything with a non-capacitive stylus in Windows 8 that you can do with a mouse. Often times, you can do it much faster and more accurately with a stylus vs. a mouse. This has been true since Windows XP for Tablets.
Please refrain from repeating the old stylus-causes-screen-damage story. It just has not been true any of the Windows Fujitsu, InMotion, HP, and Lenovo tablets I have ever used.
On a resistive screen, you have to put enough pressure on the plastic overlay to create a kind of contact on the sub-layer. Over time and with heavy usage, the more-used pressure areas become unusable or at best intermittent in operation. Mind you, I'm talking a minimum of one year of heavy use; the machine itself may or may not die before the contact pad.
On the other hand, a capacitive display requires NO pressure and as such will not wear out with use. Granted, it is notably more sensitive to inadvertent contact, but the display is not damaged in any way and can remain as clear and sensitive years later as though it were new. So your request to refrain from the old "stylus-causes-screen-damage story" is still in-valid. The newer technologies are notably better than the old resistive displays.
Personal opinion: I like the Wacom type of stylus better than the typical capacitive foam tip--but it's also more expensive and needs its own charging or power supply which increases cost of ownership. You get the accuracy of the older resistive system with the sensitivity and variable-pressure capabilities of the Wacom tablets--on your active screen. It's unfortunate for now that the Wacom pen stylus doesn't work on the iPad--as far as I know. I would take it in a heartbeat.
On the other hand, a capacitive display requires NO pressure and as such will not wear out with use. Granted, it is notably more sensitive to inadvertent contact, but the display is not damaged in any way and can remain as clear and sensitive years later as though it were new. So your request to refrain from the old "stylus-causes-screen-damage story" is still in-valid. The newer technologies are notably better than the old resistive displays.
Personal opinion: I like the Wacom type of stylus better than the typical capacitive foam tip--but it's also more expensive and needs its own charging or power supply which increases cost of ownership. You get the accuracy of the older resistive system with the sensitivity and variable-pressure capabilities of the Wacom tablets--on your active screen. It's unfortunate for now that the Wacom pen stylus doesn't work on the iPad--as far as I know. I would take it in a heartbeat.
As I have said at least 20 times before. In the 8 years (of daily use) that I have been using a resistive stylus on a tablet I have never experienced any damage to the screen.
Every resistive stylus I have used has had some give when you apply pressure to the screen. Wacoms do it too. This is how it determines line weight and it would help prevent applying too much pressure on the screen.
All of the stylus nibs have been replaceable because they do wear down ove time. The nibs usually last 1 year for me.
There is no power (no batteries) in the resistive stylus.
The only stylus that I use that requires batteries is in the n-trig stylus for my Android HTC Flyer - but that's a different technology.
Repeating the same thing over and over again does not make it true.
Every resistive stylus I have used has had some give when you apply pressure to the screen. Wacoms do it too. This is how it determines line weight and it would help prevent applying too much pressure on the screen.
All of the stylus nibs have been replaceable because they do wear down ove time. The nibs usually last 1 year for me.
There is no power (no batteries) in the resistive stylus.
The only stylus that I use that requires batteries is in the n-trig stylus for my Android HTC Flyer - but that's a different technology.
Repeating the same thing over and over again does not make it true.
What apps will you not have? How long it the battery life? If you stay in Metro and not Desktop, how slow are the apps you are running?
supported by a significant number of people who have reviewed the Windows 8 experience.
You won't have Facebook. You won't have Twitter. Sure, you can just drop into Classic mode and run those in a full fledged app - but that model doesn't work well when you're trying to use the device in a tablet mode, and the People tile is OK for light consumption, but poor for interaction. There are too many areas where the suggestion is, "you've got a full fledged PC there, why would you *want* to do this using a mobile app"?
Because, there are times when I'll write an entire two or three paragraph response on my Nexus 7 on Google Plus or Facebook. That kind of experience sets the benchmark for the mobile device experience, and Windows 8 isn't there, yet.
Speaking of which, no Google Plus app. Sharing isn't as well integrated into the Modern-UI apps in Windows 8 as it is on Android and iOS. I can name countless things about Windows 8 that disappoint me. I'm not the only Windows 8 reviewer who has noticed that the Modern-UI apps are too slow starting up. There are a *lot* of ways that I feel like the experience is superior to either iOS or Android, too, though.
I'm with Patrick on this. I've got an ASUS ultrabook with touch screen and Windows 8 pro at my desk right now, I'm writing a blog on it in Google Docs in the desktop browser (Chrome). That experience is superior to anything any Android or iOS device can currently deliver. But too frequently I find myself going right to the desktop and not using the Modern UI. Microsoft is headed in generally the right direction, but things are still rough right now.
Social media is where Windows 8 is weakest. If I had a hybrid or convertible or Surface Pro, it *would* have Netflix and Kindle - and those are two of the biggest mobile apps for a decent mobile experience. There are just some really big gaps in their app market offerings.
You won't have Facebook. You won't have Twitter. Sure, you can just drop into Classic mode and run those in a full fledged app - but that model doesn't work well when you're trying to use the device in a tablet mode, and the People tile is OK for light consumption, but poor for interaction. There are too many areas where the suggestion is, "you've got a full fledged PC there, why would you *want* to do this using a mobile app"?
Because, there are times when I'll write an entire two or three paragraph response on my Nexus 7 on Google Plus or Facebook. That kind of experience sets the benchmark for the mobile device experience, and Windows 8 isn't there, yet.
Speaking of which, no Google Plus app. Sharing isn't as well integrated into the Modern-UI apps in Windows 8 as it is on Android and iOS. I can name countless things about Windows 8 that disappoint me. I'm not the only Windows 8 reviewer who has noticed that the Modern-UI apps are too slow starting up. There are a *lot* of ways that I feel like the experience is superior to either iOS or Android, too, though.
I'm with Patrick on this. I've got an ASUS ultrabook with touch screen and Windows 8 pro at my desk right now, I'm writing a blog on it in Google Docs in the desktop browser (Chrome). That experience is superior to anything any Android or iOS device can currently deliver. But too frequently I find myself going right to the desktop and not using the Modern UI. Microsoft is headed in generally the right direction, but things are still rough right now.
Social media is where Windows 8 is weakest. If I had a hybrid or convertible or Surface Pro, it *would* have Netflix and Kindle - and those are two of the biggest mobile apps for a decent mobile experience. There are just some really big gaps in their app market offerings.
There isn't a facebook app yet so I access it through the browser. I would be surprised if one is not being developed though.
Google is intentionaly dragging there feet in writing apps for Win8 and Wp8. this is a strategic decision that is intended to hurt Microsofts new efforts because they are in direct competition with Goolge. So much for Google's "Don't be Evil" mantra. That left behind when they became a publicly traded company.
You're completely wrong about sharing too. Sharing is massively integrated into Win8 and WinRT. Maybe you don't know all of the features yet.
I do agree with you on some of the Modern UI. Some of the apps are great but some of them are too blocky (like the browser). Microsoft should automatically sense whether you are using the device as a laptop or a tablet and adjust the UI accordingly. Maybe detecting a mouse or something with the gyroscope would be successfuly.
Win8/Metro is definitely a first generation effort and hopefully will be tweaked to make it better with each iteration.
Google is intentionaly dragging there feet in writing apps for Win8 and Wp8. this is a strategic decision that is intended to hurt Microsofts new efforts because they are in direct competition with Goolge. So much for Google's "Don't be Evil" mantra. That left behind when they became a publicly traded company.
You're completely wrong about sharing too. Sharing is massively integrated into Win8 and WinRT. Maybe you don't know all of the features yet.
I do agree with you on some of the Modern UI. Some of the apps are great but some of them are too blocky (like the browser). Microsoft should automatically sense whether you are using the device as a laptop or a tablet and adjust the UI accordingly. Maybe detecting a mouse or something with the gyroscope would be successfuly.
Win8/Metro is definitely a first generation effort and hopefully will be tweaked to make it better with each iteration.
Last time I checked, maybe two weeks ago, it wasn't. Good. Although Twitter is the LEAST important social media outlet to me to have a native mobile app for.
And it doesn't matter if Google is dragging their feet or not... it is Microsoft's problem if they don't have hot apps for their platform. I used to make this argument about Linux all the time. If Linux doesn't have the competitive apps that users want, they don't care if it is because the vendors won't *write* for Linux... they'll go with the platform that has what they want. So Linux distros had to figure out that problem... how do we get Netflix, for example. Now Microsoft is in that situation. They better figure it out.
Sharing is massively POORLY integrated into Windows 8 for cerain, and if it works the same way in RT, for that platform, too. I'm not wrong. If you're at all familiar with how well integrated sharing is in Android and iOS, you can't deny that Windows 8 has a poor attempt at integrated sharing. Conceptually the IDEA is cool... but, just to double check, I'm staring right now at a Windows 8 Desktop with a side-bar that reads, "Share, Nothing can be shared from the Desktop".
Now I've opened an image in the Moder-UI image browser. I've opened Share, and my options are "Fresh Paint, Mail, Skydrive and Windows Phone". Sharing and sharing integration is massively LAME in Windows 8.
When I pull down the sharing menu in gallery on my Android device, it automatically has my LAST sharing destination selected, and has the following destinations.
Amazon Send to Kindle, Backup Assistant Plus, Bluetooth, Email, Facebook, Gmail, Google+, Online Album, Photo Share, Picasa, Text Messaging, Blogger, Color, Drive, Dropbox, Foursquare, Instagram, Messenger (FB), Perfectly Clear, Skype and Twitter.
Sorry, I'm completely RIGHT about Windows 8 sharing. Wish I wasn't, but I am.
And it doesn't matter if Google is dragging their feet or not... it is Microsoft's problem if they don't have hot apps for their platform. I used to make this argument about Linux all the time. If Linux doesn't have the competitive apps that users want, they don't care if it is because the vendors won't *write* for Linux... they'll go with the platform that has what they want. So Linux distros had to figure out that problem... how do we get Netflix, for example. Now Microsoft is in that situation. They better figure it out.
Sharing is massively POORLY integrated into Windows 8 for cerain, and if it works the same way in RT, for that platform, too. I'm not wrong. If you're at all familiar with how well integrated sharing is in Android and iOS, you can't deny that Windows 8 has a poor attempt at integrated sharing. Conceptually the IDEA is cool... but, just to double check, I'm staring right now at a Windows 8 Desktop with a side-bar that reads, "Share, Nothing can be shared from the Desktop".
Now I've opened an image in the Moder-UI image browser. I've opened Share, and my options are "Fresh Paint, Mail, Skydrive and Windows Phone". Sharing and sharing integration is massively LAME in Windows 8.
When I pull down the sharing menu in gallery on my Android device, it automatically has my LAST sharing destination selected, and has the following destinations.
Amazon Send to Kindle, Backup Assistant Plus, Bluetooth, Email, Facebook, Gmail, Google+, Online Album, Photo Share, Picasa, Text Messaging, Blogger, Color, Drive, Dropbox, Foursquare, Instagram, Messenger (FB), Perfectly Clear, Skype and Twitter.
Sorry, I'm completely RIGHT about Windows 8 sharing. Wish I wasn't, but I am.
It appears that the iPad is still the best overall option since integration is more capable, but I will also note that the current concept for RT/Win8 is still the better one. This may be a case, again, that even though Apple doesn't do the job first, they'll be the one that gets it right--first.
Will make it available to the masses under a more ethical business model.
But I would certainly say, 'less expensive business model.'
Can't find it in the market. Please elaborate.
If it isn't in the official market, by the way, even if it exists, it might as well *not* exist.
If it isn't in the official market, by the way, even if it exists, it might as well *not* exist.
I found it through the Store icon which came as part of Windows 8. I am at work now so I can't give you many more details but I believe that it is the official Twitter app for Win8 Metro. I don't trust using 3rd party apps to login to anything so I am pretty good about checking who the developer is.
If it isn't coming up for a search for Twitter... that is a problem, too.
When you search from the store and the Search interface pops up on the right hand side you might need to click on the "Store" entry. It was searching my machine and Apps instead of the store. I think that it was because of some settings that I chose previous to that.
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