Discussion on:

Why the Surface Pro won't fit my computing needs

You mention that the software problem is a big considerable for you... RT has a lackluster app store, but the Pro will run any desktop app you can throw at it. How is this a problem? Is this not far, far better than any tablet that's come out yet?

For me, the ability to run any Win8/Win7 capable desktop applications is the sole reason I'm going to get one. For that, I can take the hit on battery life.

Hi Jack,

The problem with Windows 8 isn't the over all software catalog, but applications that specifically work in tablet mode. As I tried to convey in the article, my ideal machine would be one that works like a traditional laptop (a use case Surface Pro nails) and one that can compete with the iPad in Tablet mode (where Surface Pro and RT fail).

Frankly, I don't care if Apple creates an iPad that will run Photoshop and Word, or Microsoft gets the Tablet side of Windows 8 working, neither can do both at this stage of the game. I find Microsoft seems to be thinking more clearly in this direction, and has come frustratingly close to executing on it, but for the reasons articulated in the article it's not yet there for my usage.

Ah, I didn't see that come through very well in the article. A fair point, though for myself it's more the "tablet that acts like a PC" that's the selling point. After all, we can expect that the available apps will grow, likely at an exponential rate from here on out.

I'm really rooting for the concept of "one device to rule them all," especially since MSFT seems to be the one that "gets" it conceptually at this point. We just need execution to catch up to the concept.

MSFT has got the concept right, the Surface W8 is not an annoying toy, I have to run virtualbox, Linux virtual machines and eclipse on whatever I use to replace my current Core i5 notebook running W8 Pro. My current notebook is fast and sort of light. I would go for a Surface if it had the power of my current Asus K-53.

"the Pro will run any desktop app you can throw at it" Not my experience! We've tried our astronomy software on Win 8 and most it and/or drivers won't install or run. Everything works on Win 7...

That's a W8 issue, not a Surface Pro one. I acknowledge you can't get a Surface without W8, but if the application won't run on any W8 platform then it's not a hardware issue.

If the Surface is a true Wintel platform, then it should be able to run Win7, and possibly Win XP 64-bit (drivers being an issue.) 7 And XP may not handle the touch screen too well, but (again with the drivers) could handle the pen input. An interesting thing to look at is to see if someone can get the touch screen input to translate to something like touch pad input, for times when it's inconvenient to use the actual pad on the keycover. As for the rest of the hardware, the specs look like about everything else that Win 7 already runs on with Ultrabooks. Don't forget there's always virtual XP mode over Win7/8--have fun with that.

It still has the same issues as its ancestors--the full desktop Windows. Yes, it does have everything so many people demanded was "absolutely necessary for any tablet" when the iPad came out, but every one of those arguments ignored the fact that tablets with desktop Windows had been out for almost a decade even then. The only difference now is that the device is easier to carry and lighter in weight, yet still suffers with next to no battery life which was one of its main failings originally. Add to this that the vast majority of Windows apps are STILL not touch-centric and the Surface Pro simply loses every advantage it should have.

While it is true that legacy programs built for windows 7 and earler windows operating systems are not "touch centric", programs on the Surface pro and other windows 8 tablets with a stylus are "stylus friendly".
I have been using a stylus with all of my Windows tablets since 2003.
You can do anything with a non-capacitive stylus in Windows 8 that you can do with a mouse. Often times, you can do it much faster and more accurately with a stylus vs. a mouse. This has been true since Windows XP for Tablets.
Please refrain from repeating the old stylus-causes-screen-damage story. It just has not been true any of the Windows Fujitsu, InMotion, HP, and Lenovo tablets I have ever used.

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On a resistive screen, you have to put enough pressure on the plastic overlay to create a kind of contact on the sub-layer. Over time and with heavy usage, the more-used pressure areas become unusable or at best intermittent in operation. Mind you, I'm talking a minimum of one year of heavy use; the machine itself may or may not die before the contact pad.

On the other hand, a capacitive display requires NO pressure and as such will not wear out with use. Granted, it is notably more sensitive to inadvertent contact, but the display is not damaged in any way and can remain as clear and sensitive years later as though it were new. So your request to refrain from the old "stylus-causes-screen-damage story" is still in-valid. The newer technologies are notably better than the old resistive displays.

Personal opinion: I like the Wacom type of stylus better than the typical capacitive foam tip--but it's also more expensive and needs its own charging or power supply which increases cost of ownership. You get the accuracy of the older resistive system with the sensitivity and variable-pressure capabilities of the Wacom tablets--on your active screen. It's unfortunate for now that the Wacom pen stylus doesn't work on the iPad--as far as I know. I would take it in a heartbeat.

What apps will you not have? How long it the battery life? If you stay in Metro and not Desktop, how slow are the apps you are running?

supported by a significant number of people who have reviewed the Windows 8 experience.

You won't have Facebook. You won't have Twitter. Sure, you can just drop into Classic mode and run those in a full fledged app - but that model doesn't work well when you're trying to use the device in a tablet mode, and the People tile is OK for light consumption, but poor for interaction. There are too many areas where the suggestion is, "you've got a full fledged PC there, why would you *want* to do this using a mobile app"?

Because, there are times when I'll write an entire two or three paragraph response on my Nexus 7 on Google Plus or Facebook. That kind of experience sets the benchmark for the mobile device experience, and Windows 8 isn't there, yet.

Speaking of which, no Google Plus app. Sharing isn't as well integrated into the Modern-UI apps in Windows 8 as it is on Android and iOS. I can name countless things about Windows 8 that disappoint me. I'm not the only Windows 8 reviewer who has noticed that the Modern-UI apps are too slow starting up. There are a *lot* of ways that I feel like the experience is superior to either iOS or Android, too, though.

I'm with Patrick on this. I've got an ASUS ultrabook with touch screen and Windows 8 pro at my desk right now, I'm writing a blog on it in Google Docs in the desktop browser (Chrome). That experience is superior to anything any Android or iOS device can currently deliver. But too frequently I find myself going right to the desktop and not using the Modern UI. Microsoft is headed in generally the right direction, but things are still rough right now.

Social media is where Windows 8 is weakest. If I had a hybrid or convertible or Surface Pro, it *would* have Netflix and Kindle - and those are two of the biggest mobile apps for a decent mobile experience. There are just some really big gaps in their app market offerings.

There isn't a facebook app yet so I access it through the browser. I would be surprised if one is not being developed though.

Google is intentionaly dragging there feet in writing apps for Win8 and Wp8. this is a strategic decision that is intended to hurt Microsofts new efforts because they are in direct competition with Goolge. So much for Google's "Don't be Evil" mantra. That left behind when they became a publicly traded company.

You're completely wrong about sharing too. Sharing is massively integrated into Win8 and WinRT. Maybe you don't know all of the features yet.

I do agree with you on some of the Modern UI. Some of the apps are great but some of them are too blocky (like the browser). Microsoft should automatically sense whether you are using the device as a laptop or a tablet and adjust the UI accordingly. Maybe detecting a mouse or something with the gyroscope would be successfuly.

Win8/Metro is definitely a first generation effort and hopefully will be tweaked to make it better with each iteration.

Last time I checked, maybe two weeks ago, it wasn't. Good. Although Twitter is the LEAST important social media outlet to me to have a native mobile app for.

And it doesn't matter if Google is dragging their feet or not... it is Microsoft's problem if they don't have hot apps for their platform. I used to make this argument about Linux all the time. If Linux doesn't have the competitive apps that users want, they don't care if it is because the vendors won't *write* for Linux... they'll go with the platform that has what they want. So Linux distros had to figure out that problem... how do we get Netflix, for example. Now Microsoft is in that situation. They better figure it out.

Sharing is massively POORLY integrated into Windows 8 for cerain, and if it works the same way in RT, for that platform, too. I'm not wrong. If you're at all familiar with how well integrated sharing is in Android and iOS, you can't deny that Windows 8 has a poor attempt at integrated sharing. Conceptually the IDEA is cool... but, just to double check, I'm staring right now at a Windows 8 Desktop with a side-bar that reads, "Share, Nothing can be shared from the Desktop".

Now I've opened an image in the Moder-UI image browser. I've opened Share, and my options are "Fresh Paint, Mail, Skydrive and Windows Phone". Sharing and sharing integration is massively LAME in Windows 8.

When I pull down the sharing menu in gallery on my Android device, it automatically has my LAST sharing destination selected, and has the following destinations.

Amazon Send to Kindle, Backup Assistant Plus, Bluetooth, Email, Facebook, Gmail, Google+, Online Album, Photo Share, Picasa, Text Messaging, Blogger, Color, Drive, Dropbox, Foursquare, Instagram, Messenger (FB), Perfectly Clear, Skype and Twitter.

Sorry, I'm completely RIGHT about Windows 8 sharing. Wish I wasn't, but I am.

It appears that the iPad is still the best overall option since integration is more capable, but I will also note that the current concept for RT/Win8 is still the better one. This may be a case, again, that even though Apple doesn't do the job first, they'll be the one that gets it right--first.

Will make it available to the masses under a more ethical business model.

But I would certainly say, 'less expensive business model.'

Can't find it in the market. Please elaborate.

If it isn't in the official market, by the way, even if it exists, it might as well *not* exist.

I found it through the Store icon which came as part of Windows 8. I am at work now so I can't give you many more details but I believe that it is the official Twitter app for Win8 Metro. I don't trust using 3rd party apps to login to anything so I am pretty good about checking who the developer is.

If it isn't coming up for a search for Twitter... that is a problem, too.

My, you're really racking up the '-1's on this one

When you search from the store and the Search interface pops up on the right hand side you might need to click on the "Store" entry. It was searching my machine and Apps instead of the store. I think that it was because of some settings that I chose previous to that.

My favorite kind...

"I don't like what you say enough to ding you, but not enough to tell you why..." Helpful readers are helpful.

Sorry about that. I don't know what happened. I checked the developer for the Twitter app and it is not official Twitter. I rarely trust anyone other than the official site with my credentials but I only use twitter to read tech tweets so maybe I decided it wasn't important in this case.

There isn't a twitter app for the start menu. There are third party apps but no app from Twitter.

Once logged into Google +, twitter, or facebook, you can pin them to the start menu. From then on, you will have a tile on your start screen to get directly into the browser version of the app.
Doesn't this work for you?

Directing you to a legacy desktop web app that is optimized for mouse/keyboard input is a huge elephant in the room for Windows 8 RT and IA (8 and Pro) right now.

It is a crutch. When I am in the Modern-UI gallery and I want to share a picture, and the options are Fresh Paint, Mail, SkyDrive, and Windows Phone - Microsoft has an integration problem with the maturity of their touch-oriented interface. Windows 8 needs to have *all* social media as integrated throughout the OS as Android and iOS, and right now, they're not even in the same ballpark. Windows needs stand alone Modern-UI apps for Facebook, Twitter and Google+ that meet or exceed what is available for Android and iOS, and in some of those cases, the decision to create an authorized 1st party app for those media services is outside of Microsoft's control. That could be a big liability for adoption of Windows 8 *outside* of professional productivity models.

Right now that is EXACTLY how I do things like sharing images or links or other information to social sites - I drop back into Classic mode and do it in a regular web browser. That works, and arguably having that flexibility can be an *advantage* (things that I wouldn't be able to do on an Android or iOS device until I got back to a "real" PC, I can do on one Windows 8 device, right then) - but it also doesn't offer the convenience or transparency of execution that mobile platform users expect.

It is one of the biggest obstacles to getting mainstream consumer adoption of Windows 8 as a single unified platform across their devices.

I am talking about using the "Metro UI" version of IE 10 to access FB, Twitter and Google + - Not the desktop version of IE 10. It is slightly more touch friendly than the desktop version with Pin to Start, Tools, Refresh, Find on page, drag down to see open windows, swipe, etc.
I can zoom in and out if I want to use my finger to interact with the screen but that is not really my style.
Personally, I do not like virtual keyboards taking up 1/4 to 1/3 of my screen so I will always opt for a real keyboard for more than 140 character input. In addition, I am a stylus user. I have been using it for so long on Windows tablets (8 years) that it's just second nature to use it to navigate legacy programs (I'm talking about non Metro-ized Windows 8 apps) just like most people use a mouse or trackpad. I also use my stylus a lot on my Galaxy Note 2.
I use touch (finger) input only for large motor function tasks - swiping a window or scrolling tiles.
I am probably pretty rare in this respect.
I fully agree with you about the ability to share from different "Metro apps".
It is certainly not as prevalent as it is in Android.

What I'm hearing in all these comments is that Surface Pro is great for a lot of uses, and has deficits for some Android- and iOS-style uses. Given that Surface AND Win 8 have just emerged, and the others have been refining for years, I give full marks to Microsoft development.

So it might take 8.1, .2, .3 to achieve nirvana, what's new? I hear everyone saying Surface is the right strategy, so I'm getting on board, and can't wait for the day when I run a single OS on Server, Client, Laptop, Tablet, and Phone, and that OS runs them ALL really well. Knowing quite a lot about product development and planning, I can see nirvana from here, while Android & iOS just don't have that kind of potential. All aboard the Microsoft express.!

I'ts just amateur hour around here - the same short blog style posts with no new content.

This is what passes for tech journalism these days; it's become a race to the bottom.

I'm using the Samsung Smart PC Pro, so very similar to the the Surface Pro. Samsung has a larger screen and different keyboard. And I'm told the active digitizer is better on Samsung.

I love mine. Finally great processor, RAM, screensize and active digitizer all rolled into one.

And OneNote is the best program ever.

I have been waiting a long time for this release. What interests me the most is the ability to run VBA macros in Excel. Currently this cannot be done on any tablet without third party servers (or at least I haven't found another way).

Aside from software though, I think the surface pro is great in regards to battery life. Yeah it may not outlast the Ipad on a single charge, but you can't replace an Ipad battery like you can with the surface. Carry an extra battery or two with you!

The two things I would truly like to read about in an article/review are the heat dissipation and noise level of this tablet. I work in sales and and clients will not be fascinated if this tablet is too hot to hold or too noisy to have a conversation over.

Remember that Li-ion batteries only have a shelf life of 3 years typical, up to 5 if you only use it or store it in an air-conditioned room with great circulation. So 3 years then. How many iPads in the landfill needlessly?

Keep in mind that nearly every hybrid and electric car on the market uses Li-ion batteries and have an expected battery operational life of over 7 years, not three. As such, the argument about the Li-ion on the iPad as a weakness is hardly valid. I'm still using a first-gen iPad and still get more than 5 days of standby time with no usage and it really depends on how I use it as to how fast it depletes its charge. Since I don't use it at home as much as I do on the road, three days of intermittent use is normal for me and almost two days of fairly heavy use when relying on a weak 3G signal where no other internet source is available. It still recharges to full power in about 3-4 hours of charging off the car battery port.

When will I buy a new iPad? When this one dies, or iOS itself advances to where its integration with OS X makes it that much closer to fully replacing a laptop so that I can do anything on it that I do on my desktop at home--including playing the same games.

"...Im left with carrying a laptop and tablet for most of my computing tasks."

I've read similar comments from others who say they have to carry a laptop and a tablet. I'm not a mobile worker, and my tablet experience is limited to loading an OS and apps on XP-era equipment and handing it to the end user. With that background in mind, I ask:

If you're going to carry the laptop, why bring the tablet along? What functions does it provide that the laptop can't, and are they worth toting two devices?

Here are a couple of examples:

1) On the plane, if I want to relax my tablet (these days usually an iPad) goes in the seatback pocket. I'll catch up on a book via Kindle, read the WSJ through their app, or read RSS feeds. There are no good "standard" Windows 8 equivalents to these apps (except perhaps Kindle), since desktop apps are designed for a connected, keyboard/mouse-driven experience.

2) In meetings, I use the iPad as a digital notepad. I know many people use their laptops to take notes, but I find this diminishes the client interaction (ever try talking to someone while furiously pecking away and staring at a screen)? A nuance perhaps, but 95% of my job is interacting with people in a small conference room setting, so this is a major factor for my type of work.

I use the laptop for standard business tasks: spreadsheets, email composition, document creation. The tablet doesn't do this well, but does the above tasks so well it's worth the space in my bag.

I want my leisure device and my content creation device to be a single, thin, light, quick, silent device that runs for an entire coast-to-coast flight with juice left over when I land and can sit on standby for an entire day and still have most of its battery left when I need it.

But I also want something that will work with web apps like Google Docs, that will get me into Facebook and Google Plus and Tech Republic so I can write posts like this.

Without having to lug around a backpack full of so many cables and wires and electronic devices that I end up holding the entire TSA patdown line up an extra 20 minutes while they figure out what to do with me.

It is a holy grail for highly mobile users who do a lot of content creation, I think, especially those ones who like to use their devices for personal as well as professional pursuits.

Android is moving in that direction, and Windows 8 is moving in that direction, but they both still have enough challenges that I see myself carrying around a Windows laptop and an Android tablet for at least the next 11-18 months.

I don't really care if ARM gets me there or Intel gets me there, if Windows, Android or iOS gets me there. Whoever can get me there first will get to take my money.

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I agree completely. I don't care who gets the feature set correct first, but right now it looks like Surface Pro is my jam. I need that USB-Serial support. I need that "external monitor that isn't just duplicating my tablet display" support. I need that digitizer pen support, not the usually-pathetic capacitive stylus that forces awkward palm-rejection solutions.
Unfortunately I also want 10 hour battery life but I guess that's the thing to go for now.

Both Gray and dcolbert above point out that they want a single device that can do everything they need. As yet, no one device really meets those needs, though the Surface tablets and the iPad come close--with Android carrying a couple of different advantages. Still, if they don't have the battery life, would any of them truly meet mobility needs?

A small anecdote:
I write fiction and do private tech consulting for income. I use an iPad whenever I'm not at home. This past Wednesday, I had to take my wife to the doctor's for a followup after cancer surgery (no, I'm not asking for condolences or pity, just making a point). My iPad was fully charged and by the time my wife came out I'd used about 10% of that battery. On returning home, I accidentally left the iPad in my car--where it remained for 48 hours in temperatures that went from near-70 degrees on Wednesday to 26 degrees on Thursday night. When I retrieved the iPad from the car, the battery still read 89% despite the 36 hours off of a charger and sitting in sub-freezing temperatures for a minimum of 16 hours. Please note that this is a first-generation, 3G model, not one of the 'latest and greatest' with the newest battery technologies.

With this, I personally feel that the iPad is still the best all-around product for productivity and entertainment in a mobile device--despite the other platforms' other advantages. The Surface RT is, to me the best non-Apple device despite its other limitations while honestly Android for now seems to be the better productivity platform--on a hybrid device like the ASUS Transformer. Microsoft has the concept down, but doesn't yet have the execution. Android lacks the concept and the execution of integration while iOS lacks the concept but succeeds with the execution as far as it goes (based on this article Apple's integration and automatic synchronization of data is still better, though it doesn't run desktop apps themselves.) Use what you like; hate what you will; no one product will meet everybody's needs or desires.

Maybe Apple got the standby thing right from the get-go. Android didn't. My first tablet drained so fast, I had taken to shutting it down on longer periods of inactivity. Nothing to do with battery chemistry or capacity, thus was all software.

My replacement, a Transformer, seems to use no power for even days on standby. Even with a faster clock, it seems way ahead of what I've heard of the Surface RT. The good news is, they're similar enough hardware, this might be a patch to the Surface and/or WinRT. First place to look: Android uses the tiny 5th processor in the Tegra 3 during standby. The Surface, not yet.

As for the Pro, sleep mode on regular windows may be more evolved, but with hotter hardware, that may just take some time...

and only lose 1% of battery charge in 48 hours--with a first-generation model. Why?

Yes, I would have to say it's in the software, but it's also in the design of the device. An ARM or Atom processor doesn't draw as much power as an x86 and as such automatically extends the life of a given battery by some factor. It has already been reported that the Surface RT gets roughly 8 hours of battery in use while the Surface Pro gets about 3 hours. Assuming all else the same for just the moment and we see that the different processor alone makes a huge difference in performance. By turning things around and jailbreaking the SurfaceRT, you find you get access to all of Windows 8--but desktop performance is abysmal.

In other words, it's not just software that gives longer battery life, it's the combination of hardware and software--the engineering of the device along with the operating system that controls how well a given product will perform. This is also why the so-touted "tech specs" are such a poor measure of how well a machine will work for any given individual.

Apple is miles ahead of anyone else on battery technology in these areas, although it looks like Android smartphone manufacturers have caught up and even exceeded Apple on the iPhone/iPod Touch.

But even the Macbook Air does magic things with standby and battery runtime that the best Windows Ultrabooks can't quite match.

I think it has something to do with Steve Jobs and black magic.