Discussion on:

What's with Generation Y and online privacy?

Both are good points, ReadingR. I would have to agree with your assessment.

I feel the general perception of a laissez-faire attitude about Gen-Y online reputations (and so much more) is simply the disconnect between the youth and the mature. The most visible examples of young adults (from any time setting) are the rebels and hell raisers. Obviously they get most of the focus from the elder moral majority. Even the Amish practice of Rumspringa is an example. Many (but not all) 18+ legally adult individuals go hog wild, for a while, and then they finally settle down.

I've seen my nieces and nephews photos of stupid behavior on FB go from zero, then peak at an obnoxious level, and then decline and finally disappear. There are two explanations:

1. The young adults settled down - It seems like finding a mate was the beginning of the decline. Having a child was the end of the photos of stupid behavior. Obviously a bad experience (like being stalked) can also cause a sudden change in behavior.

2. And for young adults still going hog wild - The FB security options have evolved, allowing these young adults to finely tune their privacy settings to share their Rumspringa exploits with their friends while hiding it from their elders. The young adults scored higher in the study than the old farts because of a need for this concealment behavior. Later, after they settle down, they will need to hide less and will need to fine tune the FB security options less often.

So how is all this different than the a laissez-faire attitude about reputations when "sexual freedom" and the "promiscuity" become all the rage in the 18+ legally adult individuals from an earlier time setting? Easy - the young adult's behavior was essentially the same, they went hog wild (for a time), but there was no FB to blame and no need to write rhetorical online articles.

I do disagree with rhetorical online articles though. I have received numerous emails saying the piece was helpful and started a dialogue. Also, the article lead to the comments, and I have learned a great deal from those.

WHat they do and post as youths will haunt them for many MANY years to come. Just because someone finally grows up and becomes more aware of the ramifications of posting such info, the info is still there and employers will look for anything they can and rate their opportunity based on what I seen online. Fair or not, it's done by most employers these days.

Information that they remove from THEIR Facebook page can still be widely available via the hoards who share it on their page too and don't delete it. That information, even though locked down by it's originator, can be picked up and shared freely by classmates etc. who may not have the same sense of security.

Facebook also allows for face tagging. If someone decided to tag Grant Smith on his photo and share it with others, then Grant Smith doing whatever he shouldn't be doing in the photo, is now public.

Children and teens often don't have any sense of privacy or an undertsnading of what comes back to haunt them. They are free spirits and have the Don't Care attitude. When they turn 23 and realize they can't even get a job at MacDonalds, because of some old photo shows them smoking weed and flashing their boobs in public, they live to regret earlier decisions.

As to your laissez-faire attitude comment. You are very right, I had a HELL of a lot of fun too, and had a strict rule about people taking photos at parties, of course long before camera phones or digital pictures. People weren't quite as snap happy when they had to pay $25 to develop a roll of film.

Back then, your only regret was if you got someone pregnant (or got pregnant yourself) or caught a dose of something nasty and had to go to the doc for penicillin.

That's far from the case today. Teen activities are public and broadcast to the point of no recovery. What they do today, WILL come back and bite them tomorrow and being young and stupid isn't much of an excuse for most employers anymore. there are plenty of people who are young and NOT out broadcasting their antics to choose from.

And that was before there was a Face Book or Twitter.

Just how much worse is it going to be when the Face Book Generation Grow Up and try to become part of the Establishment?

Of course most will be ruled out from Political Office before they even start. So maybe it's not so bad.

Col

There will be so many people in this position that society will adjust to accommodate the critical mass. Those with published and published embarrassing pasts will get a pass because so many others have similar pasts.

When I was in school, career options for people with visible tattoos was pretty much limited to the docks or record stores. Today, you can find them everywhere in corporate America.

Want another good example? Bill Clinton's Presidential campaign nearly got derailed over allegations of smoking pot just once, prompting his silly "I didn't inhale" response. Nearly 20 years later, Barack Obama openly commented on his "choom gang" past, and nobody seemed to care.

I agree and I was always one who figured 'everyone else did it too'. but i was wrong. turns out that everyone I thought was cool did this or that but the nerds, as they were called back then in a derogatory way, actually ended up becoming today's IT boomer and have companies that would never entertain hiring someone that wasn't squeaky clean..

Same thing with today's youth.
My son: No facebook, not professional enough for him. No parties, he grew out of it, I didn't. He's had no issues following his professional career path.
My nephew: Facebook photos everywhere, all his friends have copies of his antics etc. Very skilled and trained as a chef in a well established, high end restaurant but loses jobs due to his past history that keeps coming up.
My niece: Very studious, has Facebook page strictly to display her professional efforts (she's a semi accredited fashion designer now planning a move to UK for her career). She has people flocking to her with offers because she looks squeaky clean, despite her fun life outside of work.

So yes, FACEBOOK makes a hell of a lot of difference today's youth when it comes to seeking jobs, gaining the trust and respect of peers and coworkers etc.

My son, my nephew and my nice are all skilled, trained, driven and have had similar fun antics at high school parties etc. However it is only the one who has posted such info on Facebook that has issues with work. He was all lined up for a job with a major local hotel (my brother, his dad, has SERIOUS connections) but he was told flat out, he couldn't hire someone with such a public profile.

Even if he deleted all his party pics and started up a professional looking page, you could still search for his name and find the same pics on his friend's pages, with his name tagging him.

People don't seem to understand, it' snot what YOU do anymore, it's that ANYONE has access ot ANYTHING you post and they will repost it, whether in fun or in malice, and can destroy your future prospects.

When my parents were 16, they were adults. Dad was in trade school and preparing for AirForce duty, mom was a new mother (my older sister) and ran the household outside of working.

When I was 16 it was party time, people got going at 17-18 years old.

Now kids are treated like kids until they are well into their 20's. They don't learn to grow up early and now it is often too late as they have an indelible trail of all their antics.

Not too many 16 year old, reliable, trustworthy and hardworking kids out there raising families these days. I'm not saying they don't exist, in fact those that do will succeed in a crowd of children that never grow up and post it online for the world to see.

I was always taught to think of the future before acting on the present, I never did but I sure as hell should have! I admit I got SO lucky in that the field I work in doesn't care about my past, it has no bearing on my skill set as not too many others share the same. Not that I have a superior skill set to anyone but just that it is a very broad and unique mix of skills.

Kids today are simply SOL

Everyone here has been (or is still) young. We all made mistakes and most of us wised up and made a (hopfully) good career despite past indulgences. If I get all the comment correctly, companies only look at what their applicants did wrong (to their eyes) and not how they improved themselves....
A little short sighted I think, but very real.

They just need to look at what has been done and that places the applicant on a Do Not Employ List.

After all if the person in question was a Doctor who played up like a Second Hand Lawn Mower and was totally open about this just how many Patients do you think would trust their lives to this person?

Only the people who directly knew them would be interested as they would know the way that this person has changed but Joe Public looking at someone breaking into houses and stealing things, Drugged to the Eyeballs on whatever and generally speaking a Total Miscreant would put the majority of people off and they wouldn't have sufficient patients to continue to survive.

Of course they would also get a mass of Junkies who wanted to get Hyped Up on Medical Drugs as they are cheaper on Prescription than the ones available on the street. Over all hardly the group you want to appeal to.

Col

Tattoos are cool and hip, to some. Most of the younger employers have them too. When I was younger, and I assume for you also, tattoos were for bikers or mechanics. Girls didn't have them unless they were hookers in training, today women have them because they are cute and trendy (until you start to sag and wish you never dumb enough to let someone tattoo you).

As for weed and presidents, the media and state politicians have made it so mainstream that it isn't seen as the gateway to hell anymore, but I think that's a result of education more than ignorant acceptance. Remember past monarchs were also cannabis users, it wasn't until the US made it illegal and media jumped all over it with smear campaigns about losing your mind and killing people, that it was opposed to begin with.

Now people are waking up and realizing it's not the end of life to smoke weed for recreation and within reason. In fact, the legal drug Alcohol kills people every day, ruins families, creates crime etc. Weed can only be attributed to such issues if it is seen as a gateway drug.

Gateway drugs are only a gateway for people WITH existing problems who will constantly seek other ways to get rid of internal, mental pains and troubles. If it wasn't weed, they'd go straight to alcohol and THAT would be the gateway drug.

Teen pot use linked to later declines in IQ: http://news.yahoo.com/teen-pot-linked-later-declines-iq-192328332.html

Frankly, I don't care if other people do. But if I am choosing the "more intelligent" employees, odds are that they are the ones who didn't smoke.

I would just like to comment that perhaps the differences in the age groups is that the non gen y users are actually more careful with online postings and disclosure to begin with - hence the lack of need to monitor online reputations.

See my public FTC presentations and other writings. Not many things are part of our constitution. The founders thought privacy was integral to our rights under unwritten English law and since it was attacked did not codify it. However, lest you think that makes it lawful to breach privacy review case law and the Federal Register. There are many US laws and agency regulations in force but not often enforced for lack of manpower or interest to prosecute unless overt exposure. This will change. When the impact of MIBs and other inter-corporate info sharing undermines ability of people to land jobs or redlines them in other economic ways, the pressure to enforce and redefine privacy will be forefront.

If I understand correctly, changing the constitution requires a great deal more effort than case law,right? So privacy as alluded to in other laws is easier to alter?

Since managing privacy is too complex for most users and the users don't care the only relevant solution is automatic
You can see solutions such as MyFacePrivacy (www.myfaceprivacy.com) for automatic Facebook privacy settings and LinkAdvisor 2.0 from CallingID (www.callingid.com) that automates data privacy - before you submit your data if there is a risk you get a warning
This is the way to protect the masses!

...to the majority of Americans.

It's my prediction that our contemporary notion of "privacy" will be obsolete in the very near future, and forgotten altogether in a generation. Consider that those now under 30 have spent their most impressionable years in a world of reality TV and YouTube; where nearly all forms of public exhibitionism no matter how stupid or crude is not only tolerated, but is encouraged. Kids today tweet details of their daily lives that would have horrified our parents, and even install applications on their smartphones with the sole purpose of broadcasting in realtime their exact whereabouts and activities to anybody who cares to see.

Who is going to care about privacy when nearly everyone is already literally and purposely broadcasting every minute detail of their personal lives to the entire planet?

Do you really think that these same people are going to be that concerned that their phone, automobile or home appliances are going to be sending off nearly undecipherable strings of hexadecimal code to the IP addresses of who knows who for reasons unknown? Probably not.

I will say that if something adverse happens, they will change their minds fast and react even faster.

By the definition in this article, I'm not Gen Y, but I've found that most folks older than me, have no clue how sensitive and vulnerable their information is online. By contrast, the younger generation seems to have a bit of a better understanding of this when I ask them about it.

I think, perhaps the issue is not generational, it's an educational thing. Younger folks may be more informed on these matters than some of their elders, and conversely, some older folks may have a poor understanding and assume they understand the risks.

Few realize how valuable it is to not give out information in public. It is good that people are talking about it and making everyone aware of this importance. I for one pay cash whenever I can. That limits some form of tracking.

People who have become adults it the Facebook and mobile age simply post and use online social media more than their older peers and parents, ergo any research will be skewed towards this demographic.

I spent most of my working life working with and around Gen Y and their technology habits by interacting with a user base of 30,000 of them. Their value system about what is and isn't acceptable online has a much lower bar than older demographics, so while they might act on certain privacy issues, what they consider private (if they consider it at all) is a very small percentage of online material.

My wife and I have 3 kids in the age range you've been researching. As an IT Mgr I have a sensitivity to "privacy" much as I see in your article. The point I think that needs to be addressed is Part 2. I believe you've uncovered basic statistics that indicate this age range actually IS concerned about privacy, (my kids fall into that group, there's no question they value their privacy and control over it, just ask them). Now if I ask them to define a list (using your example above regarding access to a domain) of things within their domain they would seek to keep private their list of "valuables" would leave us (an older generation) speechless. Sexual partners or preferance would not be on that list. Who they are seeing currently or to openly have a tiff with a loved one in the arena of public opinion, that is like reality TV to them and they are will participants in the drama, they can be heard, plus it is not about being right, unless you deem having public opinion behind you as being "right". Embarrassing pictures (to parents at least) are not a big deal, however personal secrets are. In fact with my kids it was always about things where they're most emotionally vunerable. That was where they really wanted privacy. Talking about where their parents do their banking and how they got a savings account with $200 in it for their birthday, heck that makes them popular. Talking about what they have or when they will be out of town traveling (come rob my house please) raises their status amongst their peers. So to wrap it up, I see this age group as concerned about privacy as us all, it only seems like they do not because they do not value privacy in the areas we think (as an older/wiser?? generation) they should. Cheers.

It doesn't matter what you think -- marketing has already figured out who they are selling to and what they will buy and how to influence the targeted demographic of boomers and Generation Whine.

The proof of the theory is the sales.

The models seem to be quite successful, no matter what your opinion is.

What ever happened to actual real people going out to meet others in person?

No matter how much anyone knows about you from the Internet, the view is highly skewed and gives an entirely unrealistic representation of who a person really is.

Narcissism would be such a fine thing if it didn't exist.

Generation Y's are too young to assess the consequences of their 'openness' - how the internet is harvested is in its infancy. And what will be, for what and by whom - is unknown. Young Boomers protested consumerism, war and pollution - and turned out to be the biggest polluters and resource consumers themselves.
Values have changed - we now don't hold doors open for each other for the fear of it affecting our place in the line.

I don't know for certain that Millennials are more or less concerned with privacy than their elders, although from those numbers, I suspect that they're more concerned. But it does look like they may be differently concerned about it. At least, they seem to be concerned with keeping different things private.

All it takes is for a few practitioners of the ancient art of "if-it-bleeds,-it-leads" finding and propagating stories about "sexting" and the like and suddenly all of the young'uns are complete idiots in the minds of their elders. (It's not like we've never seen the biases of the "reporters" or their bosses reflected in what gets reported or how, is it?

Mind you, there are some out there who are plain stupid and just don't get it. (It has always been so. Don't tell me that none of your peers were "too stupid to live", however old you now are.) IMHO, kids who brag about having committed crimes on social media and especially those who post videos of their crime sprees should be sterilized in addition to whatever other punishment is meted out. They are, if not too stupid to live, at least too stupid to be allowed to breed.

As presented (though I suspect in reality given what I've seen of Pew), the Pew data isn't meaningful. A Millenial could truthfully answer "Yes" to the question about removing photo tagging if he or she had ever removed tagging from even one picture. Is that meaningful if someone is tagged in hundreds or thousands of pictures? Or if a really embarrasing family photo had tagging removed, but semi-nude pictures were still texted to a boyfriend.

Too, even if 44% of Millenials "Take steps to limit the amount of personal information available about them online" if those "steps" are not defined, what does it mean? That someone intentionally did not post her second mobile number? Or that obfuscated and misleading information was supplied? Big difference between the two, but both could elicit an affirmative answer.

Working at schools for the last 15+ years, I've seen a lot of these kids first-hand and by and large, I do not see the level of awareness about online privacy that I wish I did.

I think Millenials are more aware than older generations that there is almost no way to keep anything posted online private. It's the 50-somethings on my flist who keep posting "mark this status friends only so no one can see me!" or similar things, to which I normally post back news articles about sites that will share their FB posts no matter what the privacy setting is to start with, as a reality check. My Millenial friends know that if they put something out there, it's out there. The place where some, and not all of them, run into trouble is that they are not as aware of potential consequences as the older generation. We fogies have learned by experience and observation that the picture of the person vacationing in Cancun when they called in sick can mean they lose their job - and most of the news reports of this type are about Millenials, which gives the perception that as a group they have this problem. Of course, my socially savvy or tech-smarter Millenial friends pick that up from news reports and adjust their online presence accordingly. My carefree ones post all kinds of things, though, that just as attitude or opinion make me wonder if they realize there is an archive for Twitter that a future boss might see. Some manage multiple online identities for this reason or to get away from marketers - I manage separate identities for my shopping/travel and my online postings, so that I don't constantly have the data mine ad junk following me around or filling my inbox. In some ways I'm beginning to adopt the attitude of my younger friends - for a long time I haven't posted anything political or comments on articles, for instance, but recently I've begun to voice definite opinions even though they're captured in stone, because there are some things I'm old enough now to know that they'll very likely always be my opinions and I'd rather stand behind them than weasel around about it. In that way, my younger friends' attitude about it has been refreshing.

The older generation which is technically savvy comes into the online world with more experience and is more in tune with security and privacy issues than millennials. MIllenials come into the online world and have to learn the hard way about this issues. By that time, some of the damage may be done as their information has already been extracted and passed on to other social networks. This does not mean they are less concerned about privacy issues, in fact they are more concerned as they see what their previous actions have cost them.

That's what the statistics above seem to indicate. My impression is they spend more time using the technology and more time coaching each other on how to use it.

Example:
I nor my wife can access my medical information, yet there are a multitude of government bureaucrats and private entities that can. After a non-injury vehicle accident where I was rear ended at a traffic light, my auto insurance company mistakenly sent me a very thick packet that contained my medical history from pre-school up until the time of the accident. When they discovered the mistake, they approached me in an effort to have the packet returned stating that the packet was proprietary information and it belonged to the insurance company. The intra-office cover letter listed over 40 other government and private entities in the Bcc list. I do not doubt that in many cases, payment for my information was given to my insurance company in much the same way that many internet companies sell one's private information...

...but your comment is very disturbing. And I wonder why I am still a little surprised

What is with all this pandering by businesses to please the Generation Y employees, to the detriment of the business organization? An excellent illustration of this is the allowing personal devices in and being used in the workplace.

What this boils down to is philosophy, or its lack, no matter which letter of the alphabet is applied to this or subsequent generations. Philosophy studies the fundamental nature of existence and of mans relationship to existence. Philosophy deals with those aspects of the universe which pertain to everything that exists. The task of philosophy is to provide man with a comprehensive view of life. Does Generation-Y know this?

Over the Millennia mankind has lived in the jungles, mountains and by the sea in small groups in villages. Their lives were centered around the village square where they all gathered for company after a hard days toil to talk about how they spent that mundane day and the treasures they found while digging for roots. They would dress the same way, spin the same yarns, dance the same dances, sing the same songs and eat the same food, all in a communal atmosphere, watched over by the Chief and his witch doctor.

But mankind began to evolve. It moved from the basic means of survival to more sophisticated means of survival and advancement, which led to privac. The application of intelligence was the means to progress and that advancement. And since the source of intelligence is the individual, the product of the application of intelligence in each instant belonged to that individual. The benefits of the product may have belonged to the tribe, but the idea that created the product didnt. Now here comes the Chief who passes an edict whereby the owner of the product has to share or give up that product to the tribe without reaping any reward for his product or invention. A more benign Chief may want the producer to produce large quantities of his product and he would then distribute 90% of the production to the tribe and keep 10% (the roots of taxation and/or Socialism?).

But the right to own the product of his intelligence and effort and to keep the idea that created that product requires that the producer be protected by The Right to Ownership. He has the right to own his idea and his product and share them with others at his own behest. He can only guard his idea or ideas and his life by exercising privacy. Actually there is only one fundamental right from which all other rights are born: A mans right to his own life because Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action.

Now, lets look at Generation-Y in that context. This generation in particular uses its opposable thumbs primarily for sending out text messages at close to the speed of light. And I believe there are global competitions for this event. The big question is what really is transmitted in those text messages? Any unique ideas produced through the use of intelligence? No. Anything concerning human existence and its improvement? No. Any questions to a friend or classmate concerning homework or a math or science problem? Hell, No!

So what is truly exchanged in text messages? The latest winner on American Idol, the latest cacophony to hit the Top 40 charts, the latest in denim jeans, hair styles and fashion. The rest is just music, music, music. And why did this particular generation in such a funk? To answer that question, lets take a closer look at their parents. Did philosophy play a role in their lives? Did they discuss serious issues with their friends when they tied up the land-lines for hours? No, to both questions.

So, what this boils down to is philosophy, or the lack of it, no matter which letter of the alphabet to apply to this or subsequent generations. Philosophy studies the fundamental nature of existence and of mans relationship to existence. As against the special sciences, which deal only with particular aspects, philosophy deals with those aspects of the universe which pertain to everything that exists.

The task of philosophy is to provide man with a comprehensive view of life. This view serves as a base, a frame of reference, for all his actions, mental or physical, psychological or existential. This view tells him the nature of the universe with which he has to deal (metaphysics); the means by which he is to deal with it, i.e., the means of acquiring knowledge (epistemology); the standards by which he is to choose his goals and values, in regard to his own life and character (ethics)and in regard to society (politics); the means of concretizing this view is given to him by esthetics. Without philosophy mankind will continue flying blind, no matter which generation and society will be taken advantage of by degenerates in politics who do understand its power and who will use it towards their own gains.

Boy the ability to have or lack of ability to have responsibility among youth is a subject that has gone on (just my opinion) since the beginning of families. Being a grandfather now I have seen an obvious change in both attitude and maturity in middle class young adults. Outside the area involving trauma do to drug or other forms of abuse young adults are just plain smarter and more aware of national events.
The world of computers had barely starting when I was leaving high school back in 1976 My kids were involved with the beginning as I took them from dos to Windows 3.xxx. Both my daughters are now involved with careers involving computer science not attached to my own computer business. Their children (oh I just love saying my grandchildren) have been on computers since they were able to read.
Now I can honestly tell you my children are way more responsible then I was about many things including personal privacy and on line immunity. My grand kids are so mature and aware of things going on with privacy rights, our government and the general social climate of the internet today it scares the begeebies (not sure this is an acceptable word but hey?) out of me. I feel like I need to take them away to just play and be kids for a day!
I am truly undecided about whether it's a good or bad thing that our youth is so caught up in the subject of online privacy. On the one hand I appreciate them taking measures to protect their own families. On the other hand it bothers me that there is an increasing number of individuals or groups that want to use or exploit others personal information. This is not just limited to corporations or for profit if you will. I am also concerned with governments including our own continually working on eavesdropping on even the most innocent and personal conversations of anybody, anywhere and at any time.
It is good that our youth learn responsibility about protecting their own and respecting others privacy whether on line or off. Hopefully this attribute comes out of good family and social upbringing and not out of fear of being constantly spied on from both corporation and government entities. Fear is a weapon used by suppressors and can damage the freedom we all enjoy in this country today.

Both my children are millenials. Among other things I'm a data security professional, and I taught both of them as much as I know about privacy concerns, personally-identifiable information (PII), and online reputation (although I didn't use that term, exactly). My wife is an attorney, and has also provided information about online reputation and privacy concerns.

My 18-year-old daughter doesn't seem to get it; she divulges personal information all the time. My 17-year-old son, on the other hand, is quite careful about what he posts. In this small sample size, my daughter is not an "IT person", while my son is (he's taught me a few things), so that may have something to do with it.

I've not done any surveys of this behavior; however, in my small world (knowing a few hundred people) most people I know do not divulge private and/or PII online, regardless of age... but my experience shows something interesting. Teenagers are less concerned about such matters than adults, but they are more aware of doing so. Adults are more likely to divulge things because they don't realize they're divulging things, so the two may even out in the big picture.

Every example and comment we get improve our understanding. Even if it the outcome is to highlight the complexity of the issue.

As a young friend explained to me, they like Facebook and the like, and they will use it ***Regardless*** of the Privacy Statements of those companies.
I do believe your assertion that "Millennials are nave about future fallout from their openness online"...
None of us has the Crystal Ball that will enable us to see the future consequences of today's actions/choices.

You're grouping people born between 1982 and 2000: so around 12 years old to 30 years old. Would any other research suggest that these groups of people act the same or have the same concept of "online privacy".
I think you'd be closer to the mark if you changed to the poll to "reputation management". The older you get, the less likely you are to be concerned about potentially embarrassing statements or photos being posted, and maybe the opposite - I'm probably in that 61% of 30-49 year olds who believe we've "still got it"!