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So aggravating...
I want to start by acknowledging that you were not coming into the thread to evangelize Linux or trying to convert - you were simply suggesting that the article didn't address the solutions available for Linux and offering guidance for Linux users who want to achieve the same goals with DVD archiving. So, the following rant isn't aimed at you. Still, if you read it, I'm interested in your feedback and discussion.
I really wanted this to work hassle free. I'll keep playing with it. I ran into a bunch of *other* hassles too... not related to K9Copy, but related to how adaptable Windows is to throwing different situations (hardware, peripherals, interfaces, etc...) at versus how fragile and finicky Linux and OS X tend to be in similar situations. It hardly matters at this point, as I do believe the Desktop Era as a commercial consumer-driven market is coming to an end... but it aggravates me every time I have to deal with it.
Basically I had my Mac Mini and P4 3.4Ghz HT hooked up to a 27" monitor via 2 port usb KVM.
I picked up a cheap 4 port Sabrent USB KVM switch, pulled my Ubuntu box out of the basement and hooked all 3 boxes back up... and the Mac and the Ubuntu box both choked on the 1920x1080 resolution of the monitor with the new KVM.
Now the easy argument would be, "It is the KVM. It worked fine with the Mac before, so this isn't really an OS X problem".
Or...
"You can go in and edit the XFree86 config file to add the correct hardware sync information for your monitor and video card, this is user limitation, not OS limitation."
And both suggestions *are* accurate.
But in either case, the Windows box handled the cheap, off-brand KVM with aplomb, as if nothing had changed at all, without any hassle. If I installed Windows on the Ubuntu box, the video would just work, just like on the P4 3.4Ghz Windows XP box.
And this is why Linux and OS X aren't ever going to have a huge market share of the desktop OS market. They just don't work as hassle free in desktop OS environments. Linux requires you to know *too* much. Most users aren't willing to dig up the vertical and horizontal frequencies of their monitor and video card and learn how to use VI to add those arcane configuration lines to their X config file. OS X simply requires you to follow the rules that Apple sets. The Apple pundit would tell me, "get a better KVM, or better yet, just use an Apple monitor with no KVM, and everything will work fine".
Back before iOS, before the iPad really spawned the post-PC era, I used to argue that there would *never* be a "Year of the Desktop Linux PC". I used to make the claim, "If Windows is ever replaced as the dominant desktop OS, it will be by a new paradigm of computing that we haven't even conceptualized yet. Something so revolutionary to our computing experience we can't even imagine what it will be, yet..."
And that is what happened. The mobile OS platforms are the threat to Windows, and it is ironic that they are built on *nix technologies. Android is Linux, and iOS is OS X Unix.
But the *ideal* of Linux and Unix as a replacement was *lost* on the way to commercial consumer success. The FOSS promise of security and freedom with Linux is not present in Android. The security is arguably potentially *worse* than Windows ever was...
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/security/the-problem-with-android-updates-playing-the-blame-game/8474?tag=main
The apps and the custom skinning by manufacturers and telcos is *hardly* open source. Even the Android core by Google is not a true Open Source environment. Which is one of my other predictive claims about *nix,
"If it ever *becomes* a threat to Windows, it will be so highly evolved it will resemble the Windows ecosystem more closely than it resembles FOSS Linux as it exists today."
As for iOS - it is locked down and so heavily skinned as a Unix that end consumers only ever see the very simple, appliance-like GUI. It is only Unix as an *engine* - the user-experience is something entirely different.
So, *nix seems to have "won the war", but lost itself on the way to that victory.
Ultimately, I put a lot of time and effort, and some cash, into trying to get this solution up and running, and ran into constant aggravation on the *nix side of what I was trying to do, and then the program itself which was driving this project let me down as well. As a ROI and TCO proposition, it didn't make sense for time and capital investment. I might actually have been ahead to just buy a Windows machine and pay for the commercial programs. I would have been up and burning DVDs reliably without any of the hassles. I understand those are sort of intangible/subjective values... if you're broke and you can only afford a bare machine with no Windows license then Linux is an awesome opportunity that will allow you to achieve the same goals, with a lot more sweat equity. If you've got lots of money and you don't mind limitations that say you must follow a certain script to achieve certain goals than OS X is a good solution that minimizes some *other* hassles that Windows is prone to, and that might be a ROI and TCO factor to consider, too. So these aren't absolutes...
But for the 80% of Windows desktop users, Windows remains the most balanced choice, which is why it remains wildly dominant in that demographic.
So really, I'm *not* bashing on Linux or Unix. My suspicions that I posted in response to your original post were based on frustrations of a predictive nature. My aggression and barely restrained hostility on subjects like this is based on having had so many heated arguments about this in the past with outspoken Microsoft critics and Linux/OS X pundits. To me, this is the reality of the situation. I'm not incompetent with Linux. I've compiled custom kernels, I've done custom configuration in VI of configuration files for Samba and XFree86, I've worked with Solaris and CDE and I know where to find the logs and how to read them... I'm probably rusty at this point, but I was a moderately skilled *nix Admin at one point. Those are the experiences I drew upon when I voiced my skepticism to your original post - and unfortunately, my forecast has been accurate.
I'll probably stick with it and figure out how to get it working (although the KVM situation probably just isn't going to work out with the current KVM). For people who have the skill and time to make it work, it probably is a great solution - and you can *never* really argue with the *price* with Linux solutions. I mean, right off the top, if I give up watching a few hours of TV that are wasted minutes of my life I'll never get back and figure this out, I've also saved ~$100 on a Windows License and about ~$50 on a Windows DVD ripping program.
But the typical and *average* user who sees your post and goes, "I'm going to try setting up Linux and running this K9Copy program," is probably going to end up frustrated and disillusioned with Linux altogether and won't come away with the experience with anything but the idea, "Linux sucks, man".
Which is too bad, really.
I really wanted this to work hassle free. I'll keep playing with it. I ran into a bunch of *other* hassles too... not related to K9Copy, but related to how adaptable Windows is to throwing different situations (hardware, peripherals, interfaces, etc...) at versus how fragile and finicky Linux and OS X tend to be in similar situations. It hardly matters at this point, as I do believe the Desktop Era as a commercial consumer-driven market is coming to an end... but it aggravates me every time I have to deal with it.
Basically I had my Mac Mini and P4 3.4Ghz HT hooked up to a 27" monitor via 2 port usb KVM.
I picked up a cheap 4 port Sabrent USB KVM switch, pulled my Ubuntu box out of the basement and hooked all 3 boxes back up... and the Mac and the Ubuntu box both choked on the 1920x1080 resolution of the monitor with the new KVM.
Now the easy argument would be, "It is the KVM. It worked fine with the Mac before, so this isn't really an OS X problem".
Or...
"You can go in and edit the XFree86 config file to add the correct hardware sync information for your monitor and video card, this is user limitation, not OS limitation."
And both suggestions *are* accurate.
But in either case, the Windows box handled the cheap, off-brand KVM with aplomb, as if nothing had changed at all, without any hassle. If I installed Windows on the Ubuntu box, the video would just work, just like on the P4 3.4Ghz Windows XP box.
And this is why Linux and OS X aren't ever going to have a huge market share of the desktop OS market. They just don't work as hassle free in desktop OS environments. Linux requires you to know *too* much. Most users aren't willing to dig up the vertical and horizontal frequencies of their monitor and video card and learn how to use VI to add those arcane configuration lines to their X config file. OS X simply requires you to follow the rules that Apple sets. The Apple pundit would tell me, "get a better KVM, or better yet, just use an Apple monitor with no KVM, and everything will work fine".
Back before iOS, before the iPad really spawned the post-PC era, I used to argue that there would *never* be a "Year of the Desktop Linux PC". I used to make the claim, "If Windows is ever replaced as the dominant desktop OS, it will be by a new paradigm of computing that we haven't even conceptualized yet. Something so revolutionary to our computing experience we can't even imagine what it will be, yet..."
And that is what happened. The mobile OS platforms are the threat to Windows, and it is ironic that they are built on *nix technologies. Android is Linux, and iOS is OS X Unix.
But the *ideal* of Linux and Unix as a replacement was *lost* on the way to commercial consumer success. The FOSS promise of security and freedom with Linux is not present in Android. The security is arguably potentially *worse* than Windows ever was...
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/security/the-problem-with-android-updates-playing-the-blame-game/8474?tag=main
The apps and the custom skinning by manufacturers and telcos is *hardly* open source. Even the Android core by Google is not a true Open Source environment. Which is one of my other predictive claims about *nix,
"If it ever *becomes* a threat to Windows, it will be so highly evolved it will resemble the Windows ecosystem more closely than it resembles FOSS Linux as it exists today."
As for iOS - it is locked down and so heavily skinned as a Unix that end consumers only ever see the very simple, appliance-like GUI. It is only Unix as an *engine* - the user-experience is something entirely different.
So, *nix seems to have "won the war", but lost itself on the way to that victory.
Ultimately, I put a lot of time and effort, and some cash, into trying to get this solution up and running, and ran into constant aggravation on the *nix side of what I was trying to do, and then the program itself which was driving this project let me down as well. As a ROI and TCO proposition, it didn't make sense for time and capital investment. I might actually have been ahead to just buy a Windows machine and pay for the commercial programs. I would have been up and burning DVDs reliably without any of the hassles. I understand those are sort of intangible/subjective values... if you're broke and you can only afford a bare machine with no Windows license then Linux is an awesome opportunity that will allow you to achieve the same goals, with a lot more sweat equity. If you've got lots of money and you don't mind limitations that say you must follow a certain script to achieve certain goals than OS X is a good solution that minimizes some *other* hassles that Windows is prone to, and that might be a ROI and TCO factor to consider, too. So these aren't absolutes...
But for the 80% of Windows desktop users, Windows remains the most balanced choice, which is why it remains wildly dominant in that demographic.
So really, I'm *not* bashing on Linux or Unix. My suspicions that I posted in response to your original post were based on frustrations of a predictive nature. My aggression and barely restrained hostility on subjects like this is based on having had so many heated arguments about this in the past with outspoken Microsoft critics and Linux/OS X pundits. To me, this is the reality of the situation. I'm not incompetent with Linux. I've compiled custom kernels, I've done custom configuration in VI of configuration files for Samba and XFree86, I've worked with Solaris and CDE and I know where to find the logs and how to read them... I'm probably rusty at this point, but I was a moderately skilled *nix Admin at one point. Those are the experiences I drew upon when I voiced my skepticism to your original post - and unfortunately, my forecast has been accurate.
I'll probably stick with it and figure out how to get it working (although the KVM situation probably just isn't going to work out with the current KVM). For people who have the skill and time to make it work, it probably is a great solution - and you can *never* really argue with the *price* with Linux solutions. I mean, right off the top, if I give up watching a few hours of TV that are wasted minutes of my life I'll never get back and figure this out, I've also saved ~$100 on a Windows License and about ~$50 on a Windows DVD ripping program.
But the typical and *average* user who sees your post and goes, "I'm going to try setting up Linux and running this K9Copy program," is probably going to end up frustrated and disillusioned with Linux altogether and won't come away with the experience with anything but the idea, "Linux sucks, man".
Which is too bad, really.
Contributr Posted by dcolbert@...
3rd Oct
