Discussion on:

Avoid these six common IT interview mistakes

Its refreshing to see a no nonsense but logical approach to the interview room. I am about to leave my current employment after a long old while and although most of the hints offered appeared to me (an interview layman!) to be obvious, I never would have written a thank you note! Thank you for the advice! By the way, I am still looking for work..........

If the salary for the job is not mentioned in the ad or job description, it should be discussed upfront, IMO. Full disclosure is important. Who wants to wait for a second interview to find out that the pay is well below industry standards?

Otherwise, if you already know the general salary range for the position, it can be negotiated on the second interview.

It seems like whenever the economy is doing poorly, we are loathe to discuss salary. Why is that? Also, many employers attempt totake advantage of a weak IT job market by offering ridciculously low pay combined with wild expectations.

-Adam

If you want to have your candidacy cut short, go ahead and ask about salary early. However, if the job is especially promising, if the company has a great future and if you'll work on challenging projects, salary is only one of many factors you'll be weighing in your decision. Why remove yourself from the "short list" before you get all the facts? Also, once you've hooked the company on your skills and expertise, and they really want you, you're in a much stronger position to negotiate. The pay structures in most companies are much more flexible than it first appears.

Before applying, call the HR dept secretary. Tell him/her you're interested in applying for the open position and wondered if a salary range had been established yet.
I don't think the hiring company intends for the pay to be a secret, it's just awkward to talk about at the first interview.
Call and ask, anonymously beforehand. That way you know if it's worth your time even applying.

Not asking about pay during the first interview isn't limited to times of poor economy. It's always bad taste, and anyone who asks deserves not to get the job.

As for employers taking advantage of a weak IT job market...that would be like when we took advantage of a strong one by expecting high pay combined with low expectations. It's the #1 reason the IT industry is in the state that it's in. It's not entirely the fault of the certified housewives or the papermills that pushed them out, but they did play a pretty large role. I've noticed a very sharp decline in the skillset of IT people in the last 5 years, with an almost equally sharp increase in the whining about pay.

I'd say the decline in the last 5 years is due to the decline in qualified HR people doing the hiring and management that has unrealistic expectations of how much change can be introduced into a company at one time.

I got in on the very end of the IT boom (I entered the market 6 months before the bust). The skills vs. pay vs. expectations route runs both ways. As a "newbie" to the industry I found it hard to get a job that offered "experience" even though I have all the prerequisite education & certs for the position I was persuing. Part of the problem was on the corporate side of the issue. Trying to get in on the ground floor I went the route of working for contracting commpanies (temp agencies for IT skills), I ran into several bosses (contracting clients) that were outraged when they discovered that my skills did not meet their ever changing need. For example one day I was verbally attacked by a supervisor because I did not know how to configure LDAP on MS Outlook. In his opinion, because I had been trained on and passed certification exams on Windows OSs (NT5 and Win 2000), that I should by default be expert on Outlook (software I had never encountered). By this type of corporate standard a person with a two year sociology degree should be able to handle the tasks of a Psychiatrist. Some corporations need to look at their new hires and then empoloy them in accordance with their qualifications or offer them training in the unique specifics of the job tasks desired. Quit trying to get off cheap by hiring an IT person certified on "Net+" and paying them accordingly, while expecting them to handle the same work as an MCSE.

As an employer of (senior) IT staff, particularly in a volatile market, I believe it's important to address salary in the first interview, even if it's to gauge the candidate.

Whilst I wouldn't what to settle on the final package, I would want an expectation of what the candidate is looking for.

... especially in the Job Ad (send salary expectations), if you are interested int he job you should be prepared to discuss the issue.

Generally, "Yes I am willing to work for 10 Indian Rupees an hour!" or whatever figure the interviewer indicates is company-appropriate for the position.

Well, the initial contact with the HR rep should be able to give you a "range" prior to the interview. This will give you the heads up if you even want to pursue the position. If so, I suggest you do not ask any of the interviewers about salary compensation. Never. If you are successful and you and make through all the interviews. HR will call you back, and make an offer in the "range" that was stated prior to the process. At this time, you can negotiate the offer to come to an exact number. So in short. 1-know up front from the contact HR rep to see if it is worth your time 2- never, never talk about salary to an interviewer, why? they may not even want you. so wait until they do and make an offer. hope this helps. and understand this is only from my experience.

While I admired the honesty of the individuals, when I asked about the applicant having any barriers that would prevent them from working the job in question, I didn't really want to hear about how you just got out of a lockdown psych ward and that as long as you took your meds, you'd be ok. I was asking because I had a desk job, and wanted to make sure you wanted the physically demanding one, not the desk one. And, by the way, if you are a felon, don't even apply at a facility that federal regulations prevents us from hiring you. And if you are going to tell me how you murdered someone and just got out of jail, why didn't you mark the felony on your application?

I recently read this post from Db daily (included in full) There is no link because it was included in an HTML e-mail and I have not bothered to find where it has been duplicated on the net.

I believe that many of the contributors of this site are getting drawn in the nitty gritty. The article was supposed to be about good advice for interview techniques. I found many of the postings to be flawed and misguided. It seemed to me that the focus was on what stood you out from the other candidates, but that the only answers presented was petty trivialities that would please the small mind.


I have been interviewed and been interviewee on many occasions. from manual labour right up to the present day and my consultant role. Whenever I am in the role of the interviewer, I am always aware of how it is, to be the candidate. We ALL know the tips and tricks and most of them are drawn from passed on knowledge. But let's not stupify ourselves with the thought that (without real thought or meaning) thank you notes will swing an interview for you.

Strong stuff. But I do not mean to criticise in any way. Honestley. It's just after reading all of the posts and then reading the article, my view on the subject became clearer.

There really should be several headings for the main post. Interview techniques for people who are out of their depth but really want the chance. Interview techniques for 'Bunny Hoppers'. Interview techniques for the out of work for six months and desparately want to work again. Take the basics, good manners, well dressed, politely spoken and then add a dash of yourself!

"There Is No Right Answer
And there is no Book-Of-All-The-Answers you need for life. My buddy Dean and I were driving around recently, talking about kids because, face it, when you have teenagers they consume a lot of time. And frustration, and stress, and annoyance, and many other things from parents. If they don't for you, then you are one of the very lucky ones.

So as we talk about the decisions we made, the things we wish our kids did better, or at least knew, etc., it struck me that my own life, and those of most people I know aren't much different from our kids. Sure the world has changed, but we are almost always operating with incomplete information.

That applies to careers as well. For most of us, we're looking for a new job and we apply to a few places. And if we're lucky, then we get 2-3 or more interviews in a short period of time and maybe 2-3 offers that we can actually debate against each other. More often than not, however, I've gotten one offer and I need to make a yeah/nea decision without knowing what may happen tomorrow or next week.

Now I do recommend that when you get an offer and you think you could get more, delay for at least 2-3 days. I've done this saying I need ot "think about it", which I do, but also to give someone else a chance to give me a better offer. Better doesn't usually mean more money, but it can. It's the total package that I want to consider.

For the hiring company, the situation is similar. They don't get the "best" candidate. They get the best of the limited responses they get within a short period of time and pick one. There might be a much better candidate that comes along a week after the acceptance from a candidate or they might have just missed one the week before. This is one reason that I recommend anyone of any size doing development work keep a requisition open all the time. You never know when you'll find a great employee.

So we're usually making a decision under some pressure and not knowing everything. Plus we make a decision based on what we know at the time. When we're younger, money is more important than when we're middle-aged. When we're older, security may be more of a concern. And we often look at people in a different situation and think they aren't making a good decision.

Look, we all make mistakes, but we do the best we can. And you need to have some confidence in yourself and your decisions. Accept them as your own, right or wrong, and keep looking to do better.

I guess the point of this editorial is to understand that the only things you really have in this life are your mistakes and your accomplishments. The things you yourself do. Not what you're told to do or given. And you need to enjoy the successes and accept responsibility for the mistakes and move on. We're not perfect, don't expect to be, but we do strive to do well. Whatever that means for each of us.

And I hope that is what my kids will learn someday.

Steve Jones"

Of course there is no right answer!

There never is. I don?t presume that these tips or avoiding these mistakes will land you the job in every case. But to suggest that person writing posts to these articles, especially when they are drawn from personal experiences is ?flawed and misguided,? is poor form. The average interviewer in most cases has not received formal training in conducting a good interview. Like you, the average interviewer conducts an interview based on his or her personal experiences ?in the chair.? A good candidate needs to be prepared for that. Avoiding the mistakes mentioned is a refresher of what to do when preparing for an interview.

The folks responding to the article are hardly misguided because they have offered their own personal recollections about what worked for them. You say you remember what it is like to be the candidate. You didn?t demonstrate that fact very well by referring to the posts of persons attempting to be helpful as as ?trivialities.?

Say what you like: I know of three experiences, one of them my own, where a Thank You note after an interview made the difference in landing really good jobs. When it comes down to evenly matched candidates with equally impressive stats and work histories, often it is trivial matters that help make the decision. The experiences relayed are hardly small when it makes the difference in a phone call that says ?you got the job!?

The "Thank You Note" What do you think?

I am never pleased by what I consider to be "efforts taken to stand you out from the crowd" which are as petty and insignificant as can possibly be.

But... In the real world . Many of the tips and trips put forward by contributors may well be helpful to interviewees who have not as yet decided how they want to present themselves.

In the early days we all need tips and tricks that help along the way... but only because in my opinion MANY interviewers are stuck in a corporate system that does not allow them to find the person required for the job.

I do not find anything really invalid in people's discussions. I, like many, wish we were not driven into this false charade of an interview process. It's almost as if it's a case of lie and lie well!

Without a doubt, most interviewers do not have any training in the process. And for many, the interview does indeed become a charade. In many cases when performed correctly, the process can be a very useful tool in weeding out poor candidates. As for lying, I never have and never will lie in an interview. I know many people that do and many that consider it a necessity. If lying is something that you consider a part of the process, I can understand why you find interviews to have no value.

As for standing out in a crowd... like it or not... in many cases, it is the thing that gets you the job.

You deliver some good counter point to the worldly system. You should consider writing them down and submitting them to TechRepublic for publishing on the site. I was paid a good chunk of change for this article. There's a contact page on this site; they pay for good work. Check it out!

Thanks for keeping the line going...



Thanks for the input...

Avoid talking about negative philosophies.

Don?t say that you hate something, say that you like something. It makes you look positive and gives an indication that you have a passion for your job. For example (I used this in my interview for my current job (network admin/system support))

?I consider myself competent with Windows and Linux servers but I enjoy working with Linux more?.

PS we are a Microsoft house:|

Use all available media to collect information about company, especially financial news and success stories. Otherwise answer on question ?What do you know about our company?? even for best suited person can turn into disaster.

This works all well and good if you happen to know where you will be applying at. More and more companies are using temporary services to screen out potantial permanent workers. When you apply at these services, you wait fro a phone call as to where you will be interviewing at so getting information about you future employer is somewhat stipend by the unknown. I have been asked at a temporary sent interview as to why I would like to work at the company. I usually answer that I feel my education and experience will promote the company's mission plus allow me to gain experience in a new field.

This question is often asked in relation to the personal attributes that you think you have and that would b of value to the organisation.

Make sure you can reel them off..Resourceful, Energetic, etc

Important part of the statement was how would you be of value to this organization. Either key in on job description in hand or current conversation of duties and use "your value to the organization" with one or more of the duties you would be expected to perform. This should show you are listening and you do have qualifications for the job.

One Should know enoug about one self so as to be able to speak either on one's personal or professional back ground to hold fr atleast 2-3 minutes with out too many gaps in the speech. Many a time, have I faced an HR person who is interested in knowing my family background and how I portray it for whatever reasons.

Hope this helps. The article is very good and I am proud to be contributing to it.

Srivas

The seventh mistake was a good addendum.

I think the more a person knows about the position they are applying for shows more depth but I will dismiss a resume almost from the gitgo if there is spelling errors. A resume should be a crowning glory to show your stuff. Having spelling errors tells me that person is not very detailed oriented and the resume must have been slapped together.

One gentleman I interviewed in the past received a red line due to his mispelling of the last TWO employers he had worked for. One of which had given him paychecks for TWO years.

I agree; but update your own resume! The last time I checked my own, I actually had a spelling error!

There are too many tools out there to check grammar and spelling before a resume is sent out. In the tech industry, if they can't figure this out or just don't realize the importance of it, I'd not want him under me.

jeldred

I whole heartily agree with your post regarding spelling. And with that I hate to nit-pick, but gitgo is spelled get-go http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=get-go. I just love Firefox's right click dictionary search and the SpellBound extension (for spell checking in web forms). Again, sorry to nit-pick:)

I'm not sure any of the posters on this topic would get hired! See asterisks below for some spelling/grammatical problems. Problems range from outright spelling errors to common grammatical problems like case mismatch. I would think if someone were to criticize spelling and grammar, they'd check for them in their own posts first. On the other hand, I suppose the rules on forums like this tend to be more relaxed than those that apply to a more formal resume format. Nevertheless, you can't be too careful!
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I think the more a person knows about the position they are applying for *shows more depth but I will dismiss a resume almost from the *gitgo if there *is spelling errors. A resume should be a crowning glory to show your stuff. Having spelling errors tells me that person is not very *detailed oriented and the resume must have been slapped together.

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One gentleman I interviewed in the past received a red line due to his *mispelling of the last TWO employers he had worked for. One of which had given him paychecks for TWO years.

I agree; but update your own resume! The last time I checked my own, I actually had a spelling error!

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There are too many tools out there to check grammar and spelling before a resume is sent out. In the tech industry, if *they can't figure this out or just don't realize the importance of it, I'd not want *him under me.

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I whole *heartily agree with your post regarding spelling. And with that I hate to nit-pick, but gitgo is spelled get-go http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=get-go. I just love Firefox's right click dictionary search and the SpellBound extension (for spell checking in web forms). Again, sorry to nit-pick

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I am constantly amazed at how many "professionals" I see online making comments, pronouncements and opinions to others using poor grammar and horrible spelling.

Why not practice those skills all of the time? Anything that can be said can be said clearly and it can only improve one's chances of being understood if they take the time to do it right in the first place.

Since the time I wrote the article about common mistakes and problems to avoid, I have heard many suggestions. This category always makes for the most amusing to me. Yes, we all make mistakes on a document. Even after we spell check and think we have worked out all the bugs, there are sometimes mistakes. The tip was about minimizing the errors. I have been at my current position for five years and still make mistakes everyday. I have learned that a good thing to do before you send your resume out into ?the wilderness? is to have someone else read it over. A second pair of eyes on a document is often the trick to finding typos or errors that one might have missed, even when checked by a spell checking software or review by a grammar checking program. The fact that we are all human comes across the table in an interview and mistakes will usually be overlooked, provided you manage not to butcher it too badly. I had two typos on my last resume and still got the job because I nailed the interview. Had I been going for the position of proofreader, I might not have fared so well.

As for practicing your skills everyday, by all means do so! The rudimentary skills of communication are locked in at a very young age but can be improved. Old dogs can learn new tricks, or we wouldn?t have communication courses in college. As for me making spelling and grammar errors, I often do. I never claimed to be perfect and would suggest that doing so is an even bigger mistake.

Thanks for the comments!

Greg Williams

That a lot of the people writing in this discussion claim to be IT persons in positions that are responsible for hiring, yet some of the most profound grammar and spelling errors come from those that say something like "I don't want him under me."

Sorry about the "I don't want him under me" reference above. It is just an axample and not aimed at anybody in particular.

Has anyone have ever encounterd a situation where the "applicant" was right but was perceived as wrong by the "hiring manager" because that manager thought he/she was right?

I thought the points that the article was trying to make are an excellent non-all-inclusive reference. The post about the "seventh" possible mistake is a worthy addition to the rest.

That a lot of the people writing in this discussion claim to be IT persons in positions that are responsible for hiring, yet some of the most profound grammar and spelling errors come from those that say something like "I don't want him under me."

Sorry about the "I don't want him under me" reference above. It is just an axample and not aimed at anybody in particular.

Has anyone have ever encounterd a situation where the "applicant" was right but was perceived as wrong by the "hiring manager" because that manager thought he/she was right?

I thought the points that the article was trying to make are an excellent non-all-inclusive reference. The post about the "seventh" possible mistake is a worthy addition to the rest.

I have been in interviews where I had done my homework about the company, the work, the position, etc, but didn't know how to reflect it in a way that showed my interest, but didn't look over-zealous. Ideas?

As a technical recruiter I strongly agree with your Seventh mistake posting. There are two things that help to set you apart from other candidates with equal skills (1) knowledge about the company where you are interviewing and (2) "enthusiasm" for that company and position. Most hiring managers want someone who not only knows what the company does, but who is excited about it. Enthusiasm is definitely a plus.

One thing that was mentioned in most sections of the article but not emphaised is to never say anything negative about anyone, a company or technology during an interview.

It's harder, but putting positive spin on people or technology you disagree with will help show your willingness to solve problems and discuss - rather than argue - an alternative solution.

Companies want business solutions from their people, not additional problems.

Well written articles such as this one is why I joined TechRepublic and why I'll continue to recommend it.

Your advice rings true. The interviewer does not want to be your therapist and hear about your problems (whether personal or work related). I have two potentially negative interview questions that I have difficulty to answer honestly.

One, an interviewer may ask the question relating to negative experiences with past employers. I usually state that the supervisor was very strict, but a strict supervisor enabled to do my job more efficiently, etc. That was probably not the best way to answer such a question.

Two, the interview questions that I find most difficult are questions such as, ?Describe your worst characteristic?? What is the best way to put a positive spin on these types of questions?

When asked for things I need to improve- I usually tell them I am sometimes too much of a perfectionist or that I tend to work too hard. The question is a trap - try to find negatives that aren't all that bad. This is a common interview question, you can be prepared ahead of time.

Good advice. I do not want to lie in an interview, however. I have two real negatives: I always finish what I start, even if a new project hits me, I have a tendency to tinker with it in my spare time. Second, I am fairly forgetful, so I write down notes to myself all the time. What is the best way to portray those negatives as "positive negatives"?

Thanks for your help.

Finishing what you start is a good trait - nobody likes a quitter. Positive spin - "I tend to want to hang on to things - I don't like to leave things unresolved. When asked to move on to a new task - I will work on my own time to resolve the dropped task, if possible."

Forgetful, but know that and make notes / lists. Fault yes - but you recognize it and deal with it. Don't use the word "forgetful". Say something like "I sometimes go overboard on taking notes and lists. I do this to ensure that nothing assigned to me is overlooked."

There is no need to lie unless your negatives are things like "I am lazy and don't like to work" or "I make 30 personal calls a day" - not sure who could put a positive slant on those kinds of negatives.

I will take those points into consideration. I wanted to avoid the "I work too hard" hackneyed quote. I will assume the hiring manager will hear that phrase from at least 60% of applicants, so I hope it may be more refreshing to hear the truth (spun into a positive, of course).

Thank you very much. You have been a valuable asset to my interview skills.

When interviewing with multiple people on the same day at a company, ensure that your thank-you letter is addressed to the hiring manager, even if that is not the most senior person that you interviewed with. It is okay to copy the other folks, but don't address them directly. This is an especial peeve with my manager, who has KO'd candidates for this simple slip.

When I interviewed for my current job, I had the opportunity to meet separately with the hiring manager (now my boss) and with the CEO. I actually sent two follow-up letters, each addressed individually in its own envelope. A little extra effort is noticed and appreciated.

I find it surprising that people have never heard of sending a thank you after an interview. I thought that was standard interviewing etiquette. There are so many websites and other reference material devoted to do's and dont's, such as how to dress for an interview etc., that there's really no excuse for saying "I didn't know I was supposed to do THAT."

When I was last between jobs, I sent thank you notes to all the people I interviewed with: the hiring manager, the HR rep and the senior techie. That individual contributor may have a lot of input to the hiring decision. If there are many qualified candidates out there the hiring process may focus in on the candidate who's most compatible. Why handicap yourself?

If intend to use email to communicate with a potential employer, don't use a clever email address. Employers won't take a candidate seriously if you do so.

Makes so much sense to address the hiring manager and copy the others you met instead of addressing them directly. I lost a dream opportunity years ago. I was aware that my excitement probably got in my way. I see now see one big mistake I made.I wrote separate thank you notes addressed to everyone I met.

Good article.

One more tip to add... Remember that this person is NOT your best friend, and don't discuss your personal/homelife. On the other hand, if you've had something planned for awhile that will cause you to miss work, be upfront with it.
I say this from personal experience. I made the mistake of telling one potential employer that my daughter was an unwed teen mother-to-be and was told later that this is why I wasn't hired. The person doing the interview being of the opinion that I"couldn't do the job, if she can't even control her own kid." I have a yearly trip that I've taken for the past 12 years. I have always informed potential employers that I will not be available to work that week. I have never been turned down for a job for it, and have had HR and management tell me that they hired me because I was willing to take the chance of being turned down rather than miss something that is so important to me and to my family.

Just my two cents worth.