Discussion on:

Nontechnical people should be barred from selling software

Sepaking as someone who spent 15 years in (non IT) sales before crossing over, the first law of sales is KNOW YOUR PRODUCT.

You can't sell it if you don't understand it, the naturally charismatic sales type of person is great, but it's NOT a substitute for product knowledge in a technical field!

Your company was lucky to have had you present at the meetings. Unfortunately very often non-technical people from the seller side meet non-tecnical people from the buying side and as a result we get a mosnstrosity of software/hardware which sometimes simply cannot be used. The "financial" people that do not have enough money (or brains, or both) to hire people with technical background, purchase outdated products "because they are cheaper" from smart non-technical sales reps. Without any evaluation! Isn't that the most common case - both sides equally illiterate to buy/sell hi-tech products? That is how fake "technologies" like CRM come into being...
I have to say again that your company was lucky to have someone who knew what questionsto ask...

I have yet to meet a sales person that knows what they are taling about (with the exception of what might be written on the box).

For years I have been a computer application trainer who has put up with Sales people who sold training courses based on course outlines - as they knew naff all about the software applications themselves...but at the end of the day inevitably, their targets were more important than putting together a group of like-minded individuals in the same room on a suitable course.

Many a time have I found myself teaching a macros or advanced course with abilities ranging from "I've been on every course known to man and used the product for 6 years" to "i got a PC for the first time last month and my boss said it would be good to learn Macros".

As far as I was concerned, the only thing that kept those Salespeople in jobs was MY ability to somehow rectify an appalling situation by ensuring everyone got something out of the course - and subsequently came back for more.

Who gets the bonus for repeat sales? Not the trainer that's for sure.

It's just as bad if you go into a shop to buy a Video recorder (or such like). Whenever can the sales person answer anything about the product without reading the box first (as if I wasn't able to do that for myself!!!).

Sales people have been the bane of my life and are target, not Quality driven...hence I now work for myself, successfully, and many of them have long since gone out of business!!!

John F. Lawhon wrote the best advice for selling anything, "Know your product!" Time and again this premise has been proven in every field, not just I.S. The best salesperson is always the one with the most knowledge of the product, including experience with the product. Don't discount the so-called "geeks" just because they don't look like George Clooney sales clones. The most succesful person has always been the one with the most knowledge and applies it.

It makes sense doesn't it? If you're buying a car you you talk to a mechanic to learn how it really works, not to the guy with the orange plaid jacket, green pants and striped tie. Take your donuts home to your kids and send me someone who knows how the product works.

This is my personal experience of a large well known company in the backup software market.I recently took up the post of SysAdmin for a small R n D company and one of my first tasks was to look at the problems with there backup solution. We where sold a Small Business Server edition of the backup soft package and at the time of purchase we pointed out that we could not backup additional servers. The response that was received was that if we bought additional remote clients we would be able to.Six months later clients are purchased but do not work, a month later I take up my position and have to sort out the mess. During my discussions with the sales person who sold the software no solution was reached and I was eventually passed to a regional sale manager. This particular person actually tried to bully me over the phone stating things like if you had a problem why did it take six months before you raised the issue. My obvious reply was we asked about this scenario and we were told SBS edition would do the job (we have emails to back this up). After some prompting from me they offer us the Back office variant of the software. I subsequently check the price and find I can purchase it for less off the shelf from a reputable sourcewhich I then point out to the software vendor. I am told that they can not supply it any cheaper as they have discounted it already. I pointed out that if I bought it from them I would be left with the SBS edition which would be useless to me.
My next move was to get the cost of the client software refunded which has now been processed. I am now going back to the software vendor to sort this out but I expect to end up filling a small claim against them on the point that we were sold the wrongsoftware.
I am afraid this all comes down to the sales staff not knowing the products that they sell and not getting the training they require.

I agree that people who sell software should be trained in technology. I also believe that people who sell software should be trained in customer relationships, account management, and solution selling.

I know few sales people who have read and understand "Professional EJB" or "XML Applications" for instance. Likewise I know few technologists who have read and understand "Successful Large Account Management" or "Solution Selling".

Another large barrier to sales people being technological is the rapid change of technology itself. If the technologists themselves have a severe problem with avoiding "engineering obsolescence, how does a sales person, who doesn't work with technology everyday, avoid it?" How many of my fellow technologists know the following technologies: C++, Java, EJB, XML, .NET, OOD, Aspect Programming, PHP, Perl, Linux, RDBMS, Windows XP...you get the point. We all choose what we are expert in, and we can't all be expert in everything.

Also, I know few technologists who would forgo their well compensated salaries for a more risk-based compensation package that relied substantially on whether a sale was made or not. Certainly, after the past two years in the marketplace, those who did would be more than willing to go back to a straight salary.

Should a non-pharmacist be barred from selling pharmaceuticals (remember I said selling/not dispensing)? I believe you can know your product and still not be the most technically inclined person in the world. You should know what your product doesand how to use it, but that doesn't mean you have to use it daily and be up on the latest and greatest technology. Maybe your product doesn't even use the latest and greatest technology. A drug rep may market a variety of medicines, but they mightnot have angina so they might not have to use the product. I think it's the same. With proper training, a sales rep can learn more than enough about his product to be an effective sales person with good and reliable information on his product.

Hi all,

a few months ago a sales rep was trying to sell a crm-software.
We were in need for a software managing our costumer-databases and all the stuff related to that, so there were really good conditions for that guy to get his contract, but.....

This guy was absolutely clueless about what he was selling. He wasn't well-prepared and even his tiny little pp-presentation didn't work quite right.
In the end, he walked away with empty hands. We bought another software, guess why... :-))

Jochen, Germany

As a technical person working for IT companies for more than 15 years recently "i went to the other side"(as account manager)in the firm that i am working for the past 5 years.
The reasons for that are exactly the ones that you describe in your article.
This article hits the hart and soul of the most common problem in IT companies.

I was once in a situation where I had to show the trainer from a vendor how to launch the software she was sent in to train my users on. Apparently, she had never used their windows client before and didn't know what she was doing. Lets just say I lost what faith I had in the trainer after that incident.

I have a Dilbert strip pasted on my wall ... it shows a "Sales Parade" of the National Sales VP, Federal Division Marketing Manager, East Coast Regional Director etc.... marching in to a big meeting with Dilbert. Dilbert innocently asks, "But what does your product do?" and the answer (of course) is ... Oh, we forgot to bring along the technician who knows that! ByeBye Idiots! The worst is when they try to BS you like your guy with the database migration. I kill for less offense than that!

Guys trying to sell us information retrieval (search) software ... brought along a "technical expert" type as they called him (say about 22, sharp dresser) ... Hmm, maybe a plus...NEVER FEAR...Sales Idiots are Here...

After a few minutes bantering around things about "intelligent related term expansion" and "concept-oriented retrieval" I asked the "tech" ... Does your system support word order searching or exact pharase searching or just word proximity? ... The tech asked me to "explain" proximity, and I said ... like "within one word" and the "expert" was really surprised when I explained that what I wanted was the ability to search text for references to things like "blind Venetians" rather than "Venetian blinds"! (That example has been around I.R. for 40 years!)

If that was their "tech", then God help the "Salesman" and the end user. Needless to say, we found another retrieval-ware company.

I am an independent IT consultant. Most of what I do involves getting called in to clean up after the vendor's sales person has sold the client with "this product will do everything you want and installation/integration will be 'no problem'." Of course he has never completed an analysis of the client's existing applications, operations or IT environment to back-up that statement. This type of analysis should be a required part of the sales/purchasing process!!!

Major db vendor (hint: "O", CEO is "LE") sent a team of 6 to the presentation. Are we a peachy account, or what?"

Us: How do we know it will perform?
O: We said so.
Us: Uh, we're not getting warm fuzzies here.
O: Why not?
Us: We said so.

So we gave them a list of technical issues to address, as opposed to that canned-but-customized pp slideshow (insert victim-name here), and sent them off to try again.

NINE WEEKS later, a remixed team showed up (only the sales folks got stuck facing us again), with a different custom-canned presentation.

NOT ONE of our specific issues was addressed, and anything we asked got a reply of "that's proprietary."

C ya!

It's about time someone addressed this issue.

To have a salesman who doesn't know how the product works is bad enough.

Having a sales director without even a basic understanding, and who never even used the product is not only stupid, but atbest expensive for the selling company.

It would be like buying a car; you ask the salesperson if a certain model comes with a certain engine.

He/she says yes, you find out the engine is available, but not on the model/trim level you want. You then ask the sales manager and he further convolutes the issue by saying well, it is available on the trim level/model you want, but you have to order an option package to get it.

Bottom line is that there are too many people selling products,whether they be technical, automotive whatever, who don't have a clue about what they are selling, how it works, and how to apply it to the customer's needs.

I might point out too that there are a lot of people buying services/equipment who really don't know what THEY want, or what the equipment is supposed to do.

A little more education on both sides might be helpful.

At the very least, the Sales Director should have brought along a 'geek' to explain things in normal terms. Notice the phrase 'normal terms' This is where a lot of people get hung up.

John B.

The author is right, there is a perception that technically savvy people either can't or don't want to sell effectively. One might as well say "Irish folks can't sell!"
ONE of the very most effective salespeople I ever came across was one of the developers of the NOS and management products we use. He was great, and we spent many six figures of $$$ with him.
THE most effective salesperson I ever met was..is... me!! (OK, I am biased). I am a longtime CNE/CDE/CCNA and design, manage, and maintain (NOT Administer - I teach people how to do that.)a 300 server enterprise network.
But, in between this position and the last one, I worked as a Mfr Rep for a VAR with some very technical hardware and software products - that I had used extensively - and I sold rings (Rings 0, 1, and 2? Hehheh, little joke)around the non-technical "schmoozers" that were my coworkers.
I only left because the IT explosion of a few years ago, with the huge salaries, lured me where I am now, and the challenge kept me here.
But when I finish this 5 year or so plan, I would definitely consider sales again.

As a long term techie on the receiving end of the sales pitch, I understand the problem that was discussed. However, I don't understand why a company would send a single individual out to make an important sales pitch to a customer. In fact , I believe a "sales pitch" should be like developing a solution to a technical problem...find out what the customer's requirements are prior to the meeting, have a technical person customize the sales pitch to resolve the requirements, have the sales dept determine the costing strategies and other admin contractual stuff, and then have the team make the presentation.

With IT budgets tight, the seller needs to develop a strategy which will result in a higher percentage of "wins"...and an effective sales pitch geared to the customers needs seems to me to be a good way of achieving this objective.

ArnieB

Way, Way, Way too often "sucessful" sales are made on the golf links or over an expensive wine shared between an Rollex/***** idiot on the sales side and a top-of-the line HSM-suited imbecile on the purchasing side. THEN they give the product to a CIO and his technical implementation teams to "roll out" to the eagerly awaiting staff, who had no idea somebody was even dreaming of acquiring a "playtoy" like a new ERP or CRM system from ANY vendor, let alone THOSE DORKS!

Too funny, but true some of the time. I agree that this happens when the spend is over 100K, but rarely for anything less.

The current rules of sales as I see it is:

1. You are sending a non-technical person to see a non-technical person. So with that, you can sell anything.

2. When in doubt, take the technical reference and give it to the customer, but when you are done, collect it and leave the customer wanting the product.

When the entire world sees it another way:

1. Send me a sales person who has the technical knowlege to demonstrate and PROVE the product to me.

2. Send me a sales person that will not attempt to lie or decieve me. The minute he does, your company has lost the sale.

3. Back up your support pitch with the support that you pitch. More often than not, we get the product and we have to call a bobblehead reading from a script that has to keep me on hold every five minutes because he has to ask someone more intelligent what the questions and answers are.

Just a few thoughts...

This problem isn't unique to the computer industry. As well as building and repairing computers, before I became disabled I had a mechanical contracting firm. I got so tired of listening to sales people who didn't know there product in the HVAC and Plumbing equipment line, that I refused to buy from those who didn't, even though the company supplier who's info I could trust, was more espensive. I have had the same problem when teaching with textbook sales people. Degreed engineers and MBA'swithout any practical background in the fields in which they work also cause a lot of problems. Administrative types need to learn that team work and knowlege of product is extremely important in both sales and production. It's hard to work as partof a team if you don't know and respect what your team members are doing.

I’ve worked at a help desk and in sales. What company’s want is a nice clean-cut person. Most likely a buddy that needs a job. The only thing wrong with that is to find the person that is actually producing the product and knows how it works you have to go into the dungeon of the company. You once said in a column Just because you are technical doesn't make you a great instructor. This is the same things this sales guy was untrained and instead of saying let me check into that he upand lied.

This happens way to much in the IT world. Please Sign me up for sales!

On large scale "solutions" we insist that the sales person bring an engineer with them when they make thier pitch. It has been my experience that if the sales person does not know the answer, rather than say "I don't know", they will tell you what they think you want to hear.

The other point we insist on is a detailed list of all the features we are getting beforehand that is revised after we ask our questions. That way, if there is a dispute later on, we have documentation.

We learned these lessons the hard way, just like most everyone else.

Two examples of criminal stupidity:

Goal: Make a profit. Solution?: Hire an MBA who has never had a real job to run the company.

Goal: Increase your business. Solution?: Rely on a well groomed, well-meaning salesman with Hollywood caps but no hands-on familiarity with the product, the field or the jargon.

What you actually need is two people to do the sales job. One sales person who is a granted tech idiot and one person who is a technical expert in the field. The problem is that sales people are a unique breed and 99.9 percent of technical people CAN NOT DO THERE JOB. A tech person is dry, boring and unable to coverse with anyone but other geeks and answer the hard questions. While a sales person can stand up infront of everyone give a good presentation and make small talk. Very, very few people can do both jobs, believe me my company has tried to find them and they are just not available.

OT

>A tech person is dry, boring and unable to coverse with anyone but other geeks and answer the hard questions.

I think you're wrong on this one. It might have been true years ago -- when only ultrageeks could read manuals and understand how systems work. Nowadays, IT pros come from all walks of life, and they don't all look like they could star in a Nerds movie.

I say if the right people aren't available, find a pretty-social person and teach them some technology. Or send your techies to charm school.

I would tend to agree with this post saying there are two types of people required. I do believe that some technical people can become good sales people, but there are cases where you need a "sales type" person.

Ultimately, if the selling companies have their tech savvy sales person meet with the IT department ?geeks? to make sure the product works, there is still usually an approval process to purchase the software.

i.e. if the company buying the software has any sort of responsible IT governance, purchases over a certain size (like ERP, EAI and CRM stuff) will have to be approved by executive.

I have actually had the fortune of meeting some tech savvy sales folks, and when selling to IT they do very well. However, I have never seen one of these same sales people successfully assist in presenting the project to executive for approval. At this point in the project approval it isn?t SOAP and XML anymore it?s ROI. People who can speak at both of these levels are VERY rare.

So ultimately, depending on the size of the project you will likely need both types. For a large product you will need one to sell to IT and the other to sell to exec. For smaller purchases which the IT department can approve itself, a tech savvy sales person would be great.

I?m interested in any comments!

I couldn't agree with more - even if I had said it myself. Which I have numerous times. I have been in IT for 30 years and I this has always been a problem. As you have stated a savvy sales person should at the very least bring a technical person along to answer questions.

If salespeople are clueless this is often a result of poor management, sales training, and product knowledge. Jeff mentioned that the salesperson couldn't answer the most basic questions, which is easily remedied. Salespeople should do their homework, but they don't need to be technology experts. It's the business case and the ability to speak in non-techie business language that decision-makers can understand. If a salesperson is uncomfortable with the finer points of technology, then they should simply bring a techie along with them. Salespeople and techies are two radically different breeds. They must learn to work together.

People sellings software and hardware in stores should be certified.But the companies won't pay
for the certfication. So people are buying stuff
that they don't need like 100 gig harddrives for
home use!They don't know what a cache or dpi is
among other stuff.
I am not going to mention the stores, but you know them they are well known.

A+ Certified
barjo997@capital.net

I applied to a major PC mfg. store several months ago. The store manager was very impressed with my knowledge, told me he was bringing me back for a second interview. The sales manager, his assistant was to handle the second interview. He told me although I met every qualification (tech. related) he would not interview me because I lacked the 6 month sales experience that he wanted.
While waiting for my first interview I heard one of the sales reps working with a potential customer. All I heard him say was "um, um, I can ask UM, UM ..........

I am certified and I used to work in one of those megolith stores. I could answer most questions about computers, but I also had to sell all other kinds of crap like cell phones, fax machines, label makers, and page lamenators. Add to this that I had to make sure my aisles were stocked, my inventory did not get low, and I worked alone in my department for 6 of my 8 hours.
There simply was not enough time in the day for me to get caught up on all the stuff I was resonsible for. So, more oft than not, when a customer asked me a question, I'd end up reading off the side of the box because I refused to make up an answer just to make a sale.
Needless to say, my sales career did not last long.

I sit in these 90 minute sales shows almost weekly
and find most sales reps. well versed in their product but have no further knoledge about technology. Last weeks sales person asked what type of NOS we had. I replied Netware, he never heard of it..
My main function at these sales pitches is to make sure that the sales person's laptop function's correctly. If you sell Tech. products you should be at least able to open the PP presention and know how to start the slide show.
We "Techies" should be able to work in tech sales.
Were not the little little geeks that have been stereotyped over the years, heck I don't even know anyone who fits the "geek" mold !!! TECHIE POWER !!!

I disagree with the premise of this article. The idiot salesperson in the story is more a reflection of the software company and its strategies than the industry as a whole.

As a trainer of sales people and one who has built product training courses I can say this person is not the industry standard. In this case, the one apple does not spoil the bunch.

A salesperson?s talent does not necessarily lie in product knowledge. It is the ability to bring together a buyer and seller in a relationship that will benefit both entities. The salesperson identifies the buyer?s needs and ?pre-qualifies? the buyer beyond the initial needs (RFP). The next step is to introduce the buyer?s people to the product?s people and let them discover the details. This should include the user groups, the technical groups, etc. The technical resource should come into play only when needed; it is not an ?a priori? requisite.

Selling is not getting in front of a prospect and giving a PowerPoint demonstration. It is the ability to be invited to give the PowerPoint and knowing who to invite to the meeting.

Do not underestimate the ability of a greasy sales-monkey to sell a product they know nothing about.

My two cents,

David K Smith

This isn't a reflection of this one software company it's a blazing example of how it is across the board. Every single company that has courted our company to purchase software or hardware has had the same type of idiot salesperson who hasn't a shred of technical information on the product. A smart salesperson will bring in a technical person with them but even then I've found these people to be only midly experienced and extremely cocky. This whole process needs to be changed because I'm tired of wasting my time with companies who can't answer the question(s) right the first time.

There is no way that you live in the same world that I do. Sales personnel are notorious for having little or no knowledge of the product they sell and, in many cases, being unable or unwilling to find the answers to our technical questions. And, BTW, we will not buy from such people.

One more time: Sales people sell products used by technical people, but they sell to non-technical people.

Who out there has ever been on a "ride-with" with a sales person? They don't make sales calls with the IT geek.

DKS

I currently work in a location where the technical knowledge of the sales staff is, um, lacking - after hearing a salesman explain that Hp's RET is Retinal Enhancing Technology, I cringed - I never knew a printer could make you see better. Luckily,that afternoon the same customer came in - I came out of the shop and explained how the Resolution Enhancement Technology worked, and made the sale. Of course, I'm straight wage, but it was painfully obvious that technical knowledge will make or break the sale.