Discussion on:

Secrets of a super geek: Troubleshooting

You may now leave, and learn how to fix your car.

Your comments were right on the money. The best IT people are those that understand systems and know where the problem is.

The *most* valuable IT people are those that know the theory and concepts behind computers, operating systems and applications -- thus they can pick up new systems with relative ease because they know how computers work, and just haven't rote-learned a set of commands.

They know how the computer must be manipulatedto do what they want -- for them, the applications/commands only provide a means to that end.

They know the mind of the creator.
(Hmm, now that I think about it, this is probably the secret of life.)

To learn to be a super geek is
Keep it Simple Stupid learn that
one and one = two not 417.5

I have an instinct for sniffing out problems and their solutions. While this amazes or impresses my fellows, I just let it pay my bills. It appears to be a God-given gift. I have tried to teach my techniques to others as I perform my diagnoses and they are incapable of following. Somehow I am aware of the issue and know it's cure. Keeping it simple, though is key to tapping into my ability to find the solution in seconds. If I start thinking too hard, I cloud the gift.

I know exactly what you mean. I can sometimes just sit in front of a screen and the answer comes to me. It must be a gift.

This is an art, my friends.

There is no science or religion to troubleshooting computers.

However, don't let recreational drugs mess this gift up even if you can now afford them.

Alcohol, and the illegal substances, will dull your gift.

Ahhh, the GIFT. The ability to glance at the forest and instantly recognize it's growth pattern, history, and future based on the the individual trees and the surrounding landscape....

My favorite tech is the one who thinks everyone else is stupid if they don't know about computers. Even though he is clueless about all life except computers. I have been fixing everything electronic for 20 years, including computers. And yet this kid constantly ignores me because he thinks he knows better. A typical computer nerd. He is clueless on life.
My biggest problem is fixing non-electronic stuff. Because I refuse to be "incompetent", I have found myself fixing "Accounts payable" andother things like this. I have constant arguments with the owner. He is a typical salesguy. I have increased collections on service from 50 to 95 percent just by including some comments, and the owner doesn't like those comments. I have to keep pushing to keep business "Simple". Such is life in the Jungle.

I have always wondered how many other people can sit down fix a problem, but not be able explain exactly how they got there? It drives my wife (Amanager) crazy when she has a problem with her laptop, I fix it, but don't really know how.

Am I theonly one?

You are in good company. Hence the length of this thread.

1+1 = 00000010

While understanding your the system, knowing where the problem IS are important to being a valuable IT person. And the theory behind computers, operating systems and application will move you into the *Most* valuable category. Those persons who are truly of Guru statute are those who can combine their knowledge, training and experience with a logical, systematic approach to the 'investigation", and who can then effectively communicate their findings.

So many times I have seen persons, who I consider very technically sound, flounder when trying to resolve difficult system problem. In almost every case I have been able to attribute this difficulty to their inability to examine the problem completely, and to approach it in a logical manner. I think that that sort of effective problem analysis is becoming a lost art.

Forget about personal bias and "the fault cannot be in my area of responsibility"! Keep an open mind and question everything, don't believe anything you haven't seen with your own eyes.

I am an auto (truck) mechanic, self learning computer innerworkings for fun (and maybe a career change). The last post really hit home when it was said "Keep an open mind and question everything, don't believe anything you haven't seen with your owneyes." So many times (Too Many) I have found that the problem is the end of a chain of problems that nobody wants to take the time to diagnose completely. My motto is "Dont just fix the problem, fix the cause !!!"

Sounds like the truck industry is loosing a good mechanic.

I saved a welder from cadmium induced insanity (ala McDonald's). He's a great tech in training now.

IT saves minds from the rot of manual labour.

i know this is a random post, but IT rots the mind, just as much as any other trade. lol

Even a good book on Zen is recommended.

I agree with the problem analysis becoming
a lost art. But how would you develop
the talent so that it becomes a major part
of your skills?

How do you develop a problem-solving talent? Here's the secret -- and you newly certified IT people pay close attention -- Shut your mouths and open your ears and eyes when you're working with senior IT people. Yes, your book-learning and your certificate are laudable, rah-rah. But there's *no* substitute for experience. Listen and you'll learn something. Just like auto mechanics who can diagnose a problem just by listening to the engine, we "experienced" IT people develop a sixth sense basedon experience you can only get by answering thousands of trouble calls and working on dozens of networks over a period of years.

I agree completely! This seems to be the biggest problem with new techs and people in general. People are so eager and willing to put in their two cents, noone wants to listen and possibly learn something.

My boss/mentor told me one day that the best way to learn is to "Listen with your ears, not your mouth" - Basically wait until the person is done speaking before interjecting thoughts and ideas... Get the picture first.

Listening....hmmm. I find listening and asking the right logical questions is a great skill to troublshooting and fixing problems. Also learning from your mistakes and everyone elses is great. If you can't admit you made a mistake how can you learnfrom it. Textbook learning is good, but you can't beat experience and real situations which you don't get in a book.

"if at first you don't succeed..."

I think the following sums up my thoughts: Been there, Done that, I already made that mistake.

I agree with what you said. I also believe that good spelling and grammer also have their place in this industry. I'm not perfect as far as these issues are concerned, but some of the best technicians I know vary from being almost illiterate - not being able to spell "shirt" - to masters of the English language. I believe that what it takes to solve problems can come in a variety of packages. If a person's job description includes written communication, then those grammer, spelling, and englishskills will tend to seperate them from other great technicians who lack those abilities.

I agree that good repair technicians also tend to have more experience in the field. But the truely great ones have the head knowledge also.

However, there seems to be a belief in this industry that head knowledge as defined by certifications isprefered over experience. In practise I have found just the opposite. You can not substitue a technician with a certification for one that has the experience.

The best practise I have found is to recruit based on experience and then develope that technician using certifications. The certification process goes much faster because the learning is backed up by real world experience.

I learned auto mechanics while in high school. It wasn't until 15 years after HS I got into computers. I soon found out that the trouble shooting I learned as a mechanic works for computers as well. After 3 years messing with computers I was helpingguys with many years to fix problems. Now 10 years later I am just getting around to taking tests to get the wall hangings.

I have to agree with you seaker it not just the knowledge that is needed to be a good technician. In this world of CNE's, CCNA's, MCSE's... etc.. etc.. People seem to forget the the most important skill you have is problem solving.. Yes that thing you were tested on in early High School.. Most certifications give you text book problems and text book fixes to those problems. Yell what happends when the problem is not in the "text". Having the knowledge is important because you need to follow thethread of possible cause and fix. But I find that our industry is being flooded with book worms who are good at taking tests not fixing problems.

The most annoying question I get is "Are you certified"? I always answer that I am certifiable. And only half of my listeners hear what I truly said.
I hate certificates. When others were out getting certified, I was fixing things. To my memory, I can't remember the last "certified" technician who knew half of what I know. I just fix things. I grok computers. We talk the same language. I was fixing computers years before they came up with this certification stuff. When a certified technicianmentions his certifications, I always reply "Well, I will try to not hold it against you." And I try...

i agree ...i have come across this question a lot of times too.... but what actually put me off certifications ..is the number of people who get certified after learning up the entire book .......which they would obviously not remember the day afterthey take the exam ......so what's the point ????

I started my troubleshooting skills as soon as I was old enough to work on cars. I could repair them but was too young to drive. Moved onto repairing medical equipment (xrays, cardiac eq. etc....) in the military. Got into computers about 12 years ago. Booklearning is fine, but you can't be good until your hands are dirty.

Well Understanding you people with the concept of experience is better than a text book fix. Yes This is true, BUT a Very Big BUT being in a small country I'm you all know by now Australia. Remember the very best Olympic's EVER hehehe. Well it seem certification with Big bussiness is everthing and you will not get a look in if you don,t have the so called certification paperwork to back up your claims of skills. Yes it is costly, but you do get that lovely little certificate to hang on your wall and you don't have to lie about your certification or skills. Don't get me wrong here , there are a lot of very good tech's out there without certification, but it seems to be they have been around either before these courses become available or they own there own bussiness. As it seems these days if you are new to the areana no Certification no Job.

I myself am a CNE with 5+ years in Novell experience. I find that the industry is being flooded with paper CNEs' and paper MCSE who are good at test taking but dont know squat when it comes to troubleshooting real servers. Certification training does give you in depth knowledge of the system but a lot of the problem solving techniques must be acquired through repetitive problem solving, something that can't be taught in class. It saddens me to see that employers today yawn when I tell them Iam Novell (CNE) and Microsoft (MCP) Certified. They don't what certs and how many you have, as long as you know your stuff and won't have to flip through tons of manuals to fix something. A Good IT professional should know how to approach the problem from a logic standpoint and solve it in the minimum amount of time possible. Remember, we are getting paid to make the system run at peak performance, and when something doesn't work right, we need to fix it now, and fix it fast. I hate to compete for jobs with so called paper certified IT novices. They should first get some real troubleshooting skills before they start shooting their mouths off about the certs they have and how many. The industry is taking a plunge due to these people, and it scares me. Time to separate the real pros from the fakes.

I think you all are missing an important point. I hold a couple low end certifications but have also been working with computers a looooong time and have way more experience then most certs I know also. Now granted, having the cert does not make youthe guru of whatever it is you are certified in, BUT it shows you have an indepth knowledge of it and that you showed the dedication to take the time to learn it, study for it, and take the test. To an employer this is a good sign! Hey at least theyknow you know something, not just taking your word on it, it gives them a little more confidence to hire you. I have seen peoples resumes that say they have 10 years experience working in a tech shop, but in true all they did was bolt all the stuff in the cases and then passed it on to a real tech to finish the installation. So a little certification goes along way. I mean you are gonna have to get HIRED before you can get that VALUABLE experience , right?

A wonderful woman named Ohky Simine Forest was asked to leave a well known Californian university because she only had Grade 8.

However, what she knows about shamanism she fit into her book.

The same applies to the technician who lacks credentials but fixes problems in half the time or less that the MSCE gurus take.

If you really care about the state of the industry, take some time to train and mentor some of these so called "paper" CNE/MCSEs, and give them the benefit of your years of experience. These dumb ass kids that you are referring to happen to be our future support team, and if we don't show them how it's done - who will?? Remember, you were at entry level at one time too. The only thing that seperates you from them is the 5 years. After they have five years under their belt, they will likely complain about the entry level much like you do. And it's all because of your personal insecurities relating to kids that are ten years younger than you, holding all the same certs that you do. Yes it would be sad if some "paper" certified 18 year old took your job. But if you're as good as you say you are - that shouldn't even be an issue, should it?

These paper techs are a sad commentary on the state of the industry, my personal experience is that they falsly come into jobs where the results to be accomplished are far above their head ( even when they listen ) the complexeties escape them as they do those who hire them. It isn't enough to have great grammer and spelling so you can explain why IT didn't happen, the job demands that the DATA FLOWs ~ period, there is no caring about INEXPERIENCE or lack of "the secret knowledge" or having it, but not knowing how or where to apply it. The Zen of Computer Maintenance is seen in the alacrity of the "Accomplished" practitioner. The condition of the practice is as good as it's members, and , rocks are hard-water is wet-and the DATA MUST FLOW. So if the only difference is the five years, that is well and good but remember the demand of your charge.

Certifications come and they go, along with poor performers. Good staff remain. The piece of paper makes a big impact at interview time and for a while after (along with the exec suit & briefcase). But the truth usually comes out regardless (depending on IQ of management). Insecurities are present on both sides to some extent and those who point the finger loudest should step back and solve their own problems first.
When new 'paper' staff start working with me I happily help them. If they eventually replace me, then I consider that I have done a damn good job training them and am now worth more elsewhere. Eternal optimism!
The future of the long term IT pro is a hard road, one full of constant changes & skill upgrades, sneering idjits, brown-nosers and their peers in management. We chose this career to help all concerned. Even them.

Who would you hire - New Degree / Diploma / MCSE - or 'Joe Tech' who worked hands-on in a relevant IT dept for 3 years?

I'm an aspiring teckie... I've been banging away on my home PC's for a long time now, and I didn't think much about it. I'd spend hours just hacking around on all the "junk parts" that were disregarded by the company I work for. As a customer oriented person I thought that I best fit in our customer service department. Then it hit me one night when I was up at 3 a.m. building a new system out of spare parts for a friend, I LOVE working on computers: after years of working my way up the latter of customer service I realize I wante to change careers... I want to be a TECKIE!

I'm taking the time to get into some classes and working toward some formal learning, because I've interviewed and found that most IT departments won't even give me a 2nd look until I have some type of paper saying I know at least something.

It is now my hope to get some certifications and get into an IT department where I can really dig in and get my hands dirty; however, after reading some of the posts above I must say I enter with some apprehension.

I was hoping that I would find a group of people like me. People with a love of 1's and 0's... yes and no... black and white; what I'm seeing is a group of people that seem to loath newbies like me. I realize I don't have the experience, but I want to learn. It's mentors like yourselves that I was hoping to glean knowledge from and thereby authenticate the useless framed papers.

Don?t pigeonhole me as ?just another guy with paper and no experience trying pass himself off as one of us.? Getting the certificates first is the best way into the industry right now, granted it?s not the most desirable way but it?s how management hires.

Let's not forget why we're in this field, we're allteckies. Now let?s support one another...for my sake.

I do agree with you, but one does have to start somewhere and MCSE certification training was the way I chose. I don't mind starting at the bottom. But while I may not have worked in the IT insdustry (yet), I have worked with the public on a personal level and been in management over the past 40 years. That has to count for something. So don't disregard someone just because they made the effort to get certified. It cost me $10,000.00 because I chose not to take the speed read course. Hopefully,it won't be a waste!

Seaker,
You make a very good point. I live in harrisburg PA. I've bine tring to find a new job (for over a year now)were I could use my macgiver instinct in computers and technology but for some reason I cant seem to get a brake. I was told get mycertifications then they would talk. I think sometimes IT bosses should give the guy with out the paperwork a chance. I would love to find a job that would hire me on skill and then send me to school for refinment. Certification is overrated and just to costly.

Flukster:
I am in a position to make a career change after 20+ years in 1 field. This will be my 2nd career change. I remember my first days in a new industry that I had no idea what the even the fundamentals of the business were(building materials). I had good teachers(bosses) who combined the study guides with real life experience. I am now taking various certification courses and have had a good teacher for A+ but I have a poor teacher for Net+. The difference is in the relating the book stuff to real life.
Anyway my point is that I feel confident in my skills but am running into the no (curent) paid experience in the computer field. So I guess certifications are only good up to a point.
Hang in there and you'll get a job that may not be the dream job but will open the door for a better job later.
PS- Better hone those spelling skills of yours.

Where I do agree that actual experience is the most valuable thing one can have, I also beleive certifications also play a big part. I have seen some pretty "suped" up resumes claiming years of experience, when in fact they were not much more then aparts gopher. But with a certification you at least now part of what they know. Some certs aren't the hardest to pass, but they aren't easy if you don't know it. To sum it up, I beleive experience is best for perfromance, but certifications are needed to set milestones and points of achievements and knowledge for the individual. I mainly hire people with certifications, that shows me that they are somewhat dedicated to what they are doing. I do look at people with just experience also, but theywould have to really stand out.

The biggest problems today I believe is the cost. The cost industries place on the exams are rediculous to say the least. I suggest people that are interested to start out with Comptia A+ ($240)and Network+ ($180) certs. They are respectible certs, but have a realitivly low price tag. With 2 years experience at the time, I bought a study book for $30 for each course and passed both tests, after which I was hired as a Network Admin.

Alex

It's true that a certifications does'nt mean you know squat, but unfortunately that's what a lot of people look at. So if your looking for some kind of recognition of your skills you might as well buy some books do some studying and take the test.

But it's the way it is......That's honestly the most rational thing I've heard all day!

Hi Everyone

I have found that even though I know the theory of how something is supposed to work, my most valuable asset is the information the end user supplies me with.

I gone thru great pains to make the end user feel like (s)he is part of the solution, not the problem. Armed with this attitude, the user feels like "we" are solving the problem; ie., we are a team working to fix the "evil" computer.

Once a user feels like they are part of the team, they will open up and tell you exactly what was done, then allowing me to fix the "problem".

Hope this helps everyone

The Geek

I have also found the phrase "You sound very frustrated" to be a miracle phrase. Say this and customers quit being irate and will actually start telling you what they did to cause the problem. Everyone wants to shift blame. When I say "You sound very frustrated" it puts the customer at ease and they spill their guts on what their "beast" is doing.

At least when it comes to the PC aspect and the interaction with the systems. I have Techs that are far more savvy then I but sometimes you have to make sense out of nonsense (it may help to note I can fix my car). You can do the exact same thing the exact same way and get 2 entirely differant results. There is a certain amount of laying on of the hands to make things work. Technically weak I may be, but sometimes it takes creativity to work around the conflicts that invariably arise from multiple platform/software/vendor solutions(?). At least that's what I tell them to justify my job It may be Zero Effort Networking but it's Double Effort PC Support.

I agree with everything you stated, been there, done that, doing that. So many variables that it is rare to find 2 machines that are exactly alike. I also find it most amusing to walk up to a puter,put my fingers to the keys, and like magic the problem disappears,hmmmmmmmmm guess we are real healers after all.