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    <title><![CDATA[Discussion on What qualifications are a useful measure of competence ]]></title>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[A degree proves you can learn]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1773519]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[That is basically all a degree means.  If you read too much into it, you will be VERY disappointed.While man students have dollar signs in their eyes when they go to school, they realize that they need experience to make the money they want to make.Oh, and it sure does seem kids aren't as hot for the IT field as they once were]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1773519]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[jmgarvin]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 20 May 2005 16:20:53 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Respect is a key to all professions]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1773512]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[It's not particular to IT or even service industries. Anyone you disrespect 'knows' you aren't going to do your best work for them hence you'll get no respect.Certifications, qualification or wadges of experience don't rate respect, being able to do what you claim you can and then actually following through is what gets you it in my book.For an initial contact always give them the benefit of the doubt. That in itself should get you the best from someone who's capable of it. If it doesn't they're a w@nker who isn't worthy of your time.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1773512]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Hopkinson]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 20 May 2005 16:10:54 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Entirely too damn many.]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1773481]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[How else would you explain a degree in media studies. Academic qualifications in IT don't expire as fast as certs, but eventually they can become less relevant. After all us old chaps who learnt how to program, now get supplanted by people who are competent with a mouse. What's really strange is how someone can decide that a carpenter is incapable of assembling a flat-pack wardrobe because they haven't got a certification for the use of a 4 millimeter allen key.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1773481]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Hopkinson]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 20 May 2005 15:47:02 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Yes you can]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1773479]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[it's a lot harder though. Essentially you need to find a back door, the pavement admirals in HR will rarely let you in the front one.Presentation and attitude is the key, and it all depends on how much of what experience gained where]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1773479]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Hopkinson]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 20 May 2005 15:37:50 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Eh ?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1773477]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I like to be interviewed by people with no training at interviewing, they always go away thinking they've heard a great deal of sense, mainly through answering my questions. My last interview they gave a damn good grilling, all of my taking control tactics failed miserably. Still got the job mind, but they made me work for it.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1773477]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Hopkinson]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 20 May 2005 15:33:18 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Schooling? vs Experiance]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1773231]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Shooling is alright for basic knowledge but I believe that there is nothing that beats on the job and hands on training. Of course a person needs the apptitude for it. If they don't have a mind for it, then they will never have a clue as to what they are learning.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1773231]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[dobbinsm@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 20 May 2005 11:14:55 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Maybe you haven't been around the industry enough.]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1655257]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Maybe you need to be around the industry more. Making a living fixing pc's is pretty hard these days. And in defense of those of us who have certs. I can also say that I've never ran into any guy claming to be in this field for 20 years without anything to prove it other than fixing pc's be able to do much more than fix pc's. PC componets are cheap and easy to replace these days. When we talk about the value of certs, we're usually speaking in terms of doing more than replacing hard drives, or spending 11 hours at 100 per hour troubleshooting a hardware issue (when the client can buy a new one for 500). Explain the difference to me in OSPF routing vs RIPv2 routing. You can't put it in plain english because some of what you hear is not just &quot;IT Jargon&quot; sometimes it just is what it is. If you've done good fixing pc's without any cert, without any other form of education or however you have, then good for you and power to you. But to call certified professionals &quot;incompetent megalomaniacs&quot; is down right stupid, pointless, un-based, and evidence of your hiding in a whole the last 20 years. I wonder why your company started ages ago is still a one man band? Look at corporate web sites, and job advertisements buddy. I'd bet my next check from Microsoft, that 90% of the IT positions are asking for some type of cert. Get real, and get with the times.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1655257]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[vic@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:16:24 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[what?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1655255]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[you gotta be kidding]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1655255]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[vic@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:11:58 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[do u know how to set it up right?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1655254]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Do you know how to set &quot;it&quot; up right the first time? If you know how to set &quot;it&quot; up, chances are you won't have to fix &quot;it&quot; as often.  Come on people. If nothing else you learn something just preparing for the certs. I've got tons of certs and I can tell you that even from taking the A+, I learned something.  The stuff about registers (not registry), etc. Was completely new to me. And just because someone is good at figuring out how to fix something doesn't mean they are the person for the job. Why would I pay someone 45 to 100 bucks per hour to sit there and &quot;figure out&quot; how to fix it? Why not read a book or get some certs and learn how to fix it right the first time, instead of &quot;figure out because i'm so good with my hands&quot; method.  I've seen 10 year vets sit there and scratch their heads for hours (while pretending they knew how to figure it out) over simple group policy issues.  Some of you sound as if you think it's going to hurt you to have certs.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1655254]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[vic@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:02:28 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[do u know how to set it up right?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1655252]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Do you know how to set &quot;it&quot; up right the first time? If you know how to set &quot;it&quot; up, chances are you won't have to fix &quot;it&quot; as often.  Come on people. If nothing else you learn something just preparing for the certs. I've got tons of certs and I can tell you that even from taking the A+, I learned something.  The stuff about registers (not registry), etc. Was completely new to me.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1655252]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[vic@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:57:30 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[very true indeed]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1650131]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I would totally agree I was really into computers but since I had no paper I could never get hired by anyone so I made a consulting company worked it for a year and then parlayed that into a career I mean if more people looked for aptitude as apposed to paper and fluff I know I would have had a much easier time breaking into the industry and been a lot happier.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1650131]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Mandanglo78]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:26:33 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[The Paper]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1649940]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Is is worth paying 100-500 bucks to land a 60-80k job vs a 40-59k job? Unless things change in the U.S. focus in areas that can't be easily outsourced or try and get employed by a US Gov't agency. Hopefully they want outsource our government.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1649940]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[dmwoodcock@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2004 06:26:21 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Professional vs Smart Butt]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1649935]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Not perfect but accountable. Don't really know alot of IT Guru's seen it on a few license plates though. IT is broad and specialists are required. Difference between an AA or AS. Not everyone is good at everything. Seen excellent mainframe programmers that really didn't know much about a PC other than using the 3270 terminal emulator. We need everyone to make it all work, and they all need to be able to perform their speciality, not smile about it or just talk about it.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1649935]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[dmwoodcock@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2004 06:20:04 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Non-geek agrees.]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1649599]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Just letting you know there are those of us out here who agree w/ you. P.S., I used the spell checker.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1649599]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[jtakiwi]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:59:01 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[I have to agree...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1649598]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[It isn't such a hardship to be nice when you are fixing whatever the problem is. The ability to politely explain what happened in plain english and how to avoid it in the future is a huge plus in any industry, not just IT. Should we settle for less? Why? For every &quot;brilliant&quot; anti-social, there is another &quot;brilliant&quot; sociable IT person waiting to take you job. Keep it in mind. I can teach you the technology, I cannot teach you to have social skills. Your mother should have taught you that.True story, I went to a custom pc shop in Florida to purchase a pc for my mother. I walk in, and am immediately hit in the face w/ attitude from the techies. You would have thought I walked into a biker hangout to see the attitudes and swagger of the little 120 lb soaking wet types in there. I don't look like the typical techie, so they assumed I had no idea what I wanted. I made the mistake of actually purchasing something there (they were the only option at the time, and time was a bit short). Turns out, attitiude cannot fix anything, as my poor mother found out. So, basically, lose the attitiude, and you can come work for a professional organization instead of hanging out at a fix it store or comp usa trying to look cool.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1649598]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[jtakiwi]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:55:38 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[I'm seeing alot of resentment toward certs and good grades...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1649594]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Most of the posts on this subject say that experience rules. In my experience, I have to say that experience counts for alot, the more varied the better. However, you cannot say that certs are useless, or just the product of an egomaniacal personality (Hitler was a megalomaniac, I would hope any of us could spot one of those shortly after they sat down for the interview). We happen to have quite a few people running around these halls w/ a string of letters after their names, me included, should they choose to answer emails that way (most don't). They all seem to be functional human beings who manage to tie their shoes each and every morning. To say, as in an earlier post someone made, that good grades are a bad thing, are you kidding me? All things being equal, you would have to be a moron to hire the person w/ lower GPA or less certs. Come on, not everyone is a paper MCSE. The certs prove to me that you are interested in the field, and have put forth effort to obtain credentials to back it up. They also show a willingness to learn (not a common trait). Certs are not a substitute for actual knowledge, you have to balance the experience and the certs.      To say; &quot;I have yet to come across anyone ... in any industry ... with a a string of alphabets after their name who have turned out to be nothing more than incompetent megalomaniacs.&quot; just tells me you don't get out much. To make such a blanket statement like that, especially if you have 22 yrs experience as stated...     We conducted a string of interview recently, and the best prospect so far has no certs. Just the way that it is. If he were hired by us, he would have a time window in order to earn certain certifications and see a raise in salary accordingly. The certifications are one of the few ways to differentiate our company from the average computer shop.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1649594]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[jtakiwi]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:44:03 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[...both are important]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1649583]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Both technical chops and the ability to work with others are important.  Ask the end users who they want fixing broken boxes:1.  The alpha geek who has the personality of a blunt object or sharp rock, but can fix any problem that has ever occurred in a heartbeat; or2.  The tech who might take a minute or so longer to fix the problem, but also doesn't leave his customers wondering just how a bad network connection became their fault.I know of one case where a client asked that a certain tech not return to that site because he couldn't do the job without p_ssing people off!]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1649583]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[NickNielsen]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:31:49 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[YEAH]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1649231]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I started my business in 1982 selling and fixing VIC20's and didn't have a clue about PC's and, over the years built up my business employing 7.I only hired those who were prepared to &quot;get a little dirt on their hands and have an open mind&quot; and who could explain their actions in &quot;Plain English&quot; not IT jargon, at the same time getting the job done. Some have now gone on to their own businesses and I now operate successfully as a &quot;one man band&quot;.I have yet to come across anyone ... in any industry ... with a a string of alphabets after their name who have turned out to be nothing more than incompetent megalomaniacs.ChrisTOTG, has got it right.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1649231]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[cmate@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:59:11 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Being There]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1648780]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[As I believe Woody Allen said &quot;80% of life is being there&quot;. Most good employees are depenable and knowledgeable. Theory is theory,  and Microsoft, Novell and all the companies are full of a lot of theory. In the classes I've taken about a third of the class is impractible in todays business world. Experience and reliability are my criteria. Even mice and monkeys can pass a test. A good Tech is in for the long haul until a problem is resolved and a procedure is in place for business to continue it's operations. IT is support tools for a business not an end product.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1648780]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[john_anthony@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:32:10 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[That's a huge myth...its a bit harsh..]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1648729]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I can't let this one go without commenting  &quot;Guys in I.T. have no social life&quot;....this is a huge myth, probably one of the biggest in the IT industry -- that suggests that IT guys are geeks in the social sense as well as the professional sense (the latter -- most of us wear as a badge of honor btw..lol). I'll readily admit I'm far from a social butterfly, I don't like crowded places -- nothing to do with any strange phobia or anything, merely the fact I really don't care to mingle in large crowds, its not my thing. I however, prefer small groups of very good friends and family -- with these folks I have a pretty good &quot;social life&quot; with...of course when one of your best friends lives 5,000 miles away, you tend to value the time more when you vacation with them.Here's some more &quot;IT Myths&quot; I'd like to debunk...- No we don't live in mommy and daddy's basement - Yes we are actually having real relationships with our girlfriends/boyfriends/wife/husband, etc.- Some of us IT folk actually HATE having to carrying a cellphone/PDA 24/7.- We don't all wear black framed glasses with tape in the middle, pocket protectors and bowties. Some of us dress like normal business people...IMAGINE THAT!- We don't all have home networks, build our own machines, and.......oh ummm....yeah we do. later...]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/16-155922-1648729]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[TomSal]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:21:51 -0700</pubDate>
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