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    <title><![CDATA[Discussion on Should ISPs be accountable for overall Internet security? ]]></title>
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292]]></link>
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    <lastBuildDate>2013-05-22T05:30:05-07:00</lastBuildDate>
             

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        <title><![CDATA[The Prosecution Awakens...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110158]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[You have several good points there, but if you comb your hair a little differently, you should be able to cover them up.Sorry, but here comes another analogy.  You're calling ISPs simple pipelines, as in oil industry pipelines.  An oil producer can own a pipeline along with its oilwells, or another company can own the pipeline.  If the oilwell owner also owns the pipeline, then it is absolutely responsible for what is travelling through the pipe.  Therefore, if a personal malicious website is hosed on an ISP, then the ISP is responsible for shutting it down or forcing it to change its content.You say, &quot;It is the program originator that tags the contents and your television receiver that must examine these tags as required by law.&quot;  That's fine.  So where are the analogous laws for the Internet?  Are you saying that malicious websites should be legally obliged to tell me, &quot;You have already contracted a malware infection just by visiting this site?&quot;  That won't be very effective unless my browser can interpret that message before it downloads the page content.  I'm sure you can see the absurdity in this concept.Finally, you state, &quot;No ISP in the world has the manpower to inspect the gigabytes of content that flow every second or every day through your wires.&quot;  True, but all that content also flows through the ISP's wires.  There is so much content that expecting masses of uninformed users to manage security for the entire Internet just plain silly.  Many ISPs are voluntarily sharing this responsibility by providing their subscribers with e-mail and phishing site filters, anti-spam tools, and even parental controls akin to the V-chip.Don't you think it would be reasonable to require well-informed and highly capable tech-savvy ISPs to shoulder at least some of the burden for Internet content security?]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110158]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Scoid]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:25:14 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Well, then dump it!]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110121]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[You could dump it today!  I can think of only one wide area internetworking protocol to replace it, and that is Novell's IPX.  RIP's would be quite a problem, I cannot imagine life without DNS, and think of the huge routing tables you'd need in every router.  But it could be done.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110121]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[mgordon@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:50:31 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Pretty good description]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110115]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Minor corrections -- the feature of fixed size packets and padding is unique to ATM (Asynchronous Transfer Mode) where they are called cells.  Also, ATM is a &quot;layer 2&quot; transport protocol that hides *underneath* IP which is layer 3.IP (Internet Protocol) packets vary from about 40 bytes up to about 1400 bytes.  They can be bigger, all the way up to about 65535 bytes, but most routers will be forced to fragment packets larger than an ethernet frame.  As you have correctly pointed out, these packets can take diverse routes to their destination and can even arrive out of sequence.  The destination is responsible for re-assembling the packets.  No location between sender and recipient is guaranteed to see or possess all packets of a transmission.IP itself carries layer 4 protocols, TCP is one, UDP is another.  Inspecting traffic is an extremely arduous process that I engage in only when an urgency dictates that I must. A layer 5 datagram could conceivably be broken into entirely different layer 4 protocols and sent via different paths.  Some protocols use TCP for control and UDP for transmission.  It is quite complex and anyone suggesting that ISP's monitor and regulate traffic have perhaps no idea what they are suggesting.  The task, while theoretically possible, would be enormous -- the cost of it would dwarf the cost of the internet itself.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110115]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[mgordon@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:24:32 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[A longer description would be useful]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110113]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I see by your tag that you are a LAN administrator.  Perhaps you could describe a few threats and how an ISP gateway could stop them, and why would they?  However, I am sure that for a suitable fee, your ISP will do whatever you want with your particular feed.Stopping email viruses is very easy: shut port 25.  Stopping web viruses is also easy: shut port 80.  Since you cannot inspect SSL traffic at all, you must shut all SSL ports (443, 995, etc). Guaranteed success 100 percent virus and offensive material blocking.  Try it and report back to the group on your success  Some commercial offerings use proxies to achieve these results.  I suggest that customers that want safe surfing be steered to one of these proxied services.  Naturally, a performance penalty applies (and a cost), but they do work.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110113]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[mgordon@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:11:17 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[What comes first?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110109]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[&quot;As for spamming, the rule should be default, if you want to recieve email from a site then you need to opt in, and the default is, you are opted out.&quot;The problem, of course, is that YOUR request to OPT-IN is necessarily unsolicited email to THEM.  You would never know that the &quot;them&quot; existed until they spam you, and they will never know of your interest until you spam them!Clearly, some compromise must exist -- the &quot;no trespassing&quot; laws allow some easements -- postmen can deliver mail to your door, solicitors can usually approach your door, your next door neighbor can knock on your door.  Technically, all might be said to be trespassing, but SOME trespass is recognized as socially necessary.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110109]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[mgordon@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:55:46 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Consider what you have just written...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110092]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[&quot;Hopefully people will learn to take medical advice from the doctor, construction advice from the contractor and technical advice from me.Unless you think you can build your own house?with a fractured tibia.&quot;This is EXACTLY what doctors and construction workers do when they install server-grade computers at home directly connected to a global network. Do we go to Sam's Club and buy our own surgical tools?  Not usually; we leave that to the doctors.  But look at a similar situation -- millions of people buy networked computers and they DO NOT know what they are doing.  This is not a 'slam' on them; but it is no different than pushing surgical tools on every household, cheap, private airplanes for anyone that wanted one -- no license needed!  'ware the collision, mate!]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110092]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[mgordon@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:48:45 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Good thread, bad analogy!]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110087]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[&quot;To draw a final analogy, we police our physical highways. The responsibility for them resides with the owner...state, county or province... It is not unreasonable to expect the same on the internet.&quot;And what do we actually DO with our police on the highways?  We make sure that automobiles are going in the proper direction for their lane, not too fast and not too slow, and avoiding collisions.  These features already exist on the internet in various routing and transport protocols and policies.  Police do NOT stop each car and inspect for authorized contents, nor would it be particularly useful in the absence of comparing the contents of any particular car with the contents of EVERY car.  Since a single web page is composed of elements from possibly many different packets and many different servers, the police would have to not only stop every car, but aggregate the contents destined to each destination.  Thus, one car may be carrying little metal pins -- harmless by itself, but integral to assembling guns.  Another car coming from the east may have hammers.  Another car, coming from the north, might have barrels.  Thus, the police would have to not allow ANY car to deliver ANYTHING, until ALL cars to that destination have been inspected, and individually and collectively determined to be harmless.  Nazi Germany tried really hard to do that very thing, and failed.  The eastern bloc nations tried very hard to do that thing, and failed.  Diversity exists in too many ways to make any kind of aggregation always successful at detecting intention. A technical equivalent might be a pornographic website, or cluster, that delivers images sliced or interleaved in some random way.  Any image by itself is nothing; it could even be autumn leaves in Vermont.  But when pixel-by-pixel operations combine the images from several different servers, suddenly you have the intended output -- and it exists ONLY on the final recipients' computer.What you are proposing is not happening, and cannot happen, in the United States of America as presently constituted.  The TCP/IP protocol suite would have to be altered to ensure a single path between sender and recipient, and government nodes (&quot;Carnivore&quot;) would have to be installed at those nodes, and nobody would receive ANYTHING until the complete transmission had been re-assembled at the Carnivore-like spy node for inspection.  Nobody would use encryption for anything because it would be forbidden.  E-Commerce would die a sudden death and so would the entire internet.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110087]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[mgordon@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:16:15 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[The good, the bad and the ugly]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110084]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[&quot;Blocking the SQL 1433 port during the blaster worm attack would have mitigated a huge amount of the traffic and infections that occurred.&quot;No doubt, but it would also have shut out anyone using SQL databases remotely.  You could probably do this to residential feeds, but SQL servers are not usually in residential feeds.  The problem should be obvious -- slammer utilized a port that must remain open for business to be conducted.The same can be said of web and email viruses, which today describe most of them.  These ports must obviously remain open.ISP's cannot detect zero-day viruses.  In fact, nobody &quot;detects&quot; them.  What happens is your server crashes (or some other symptom) and you eventually figure it out.  Then you develop a recognition pattern for the virus and ship it out to your subscribers.But what happens if ISP's filter everything?  How shall McAfee's virus update patterns ever reach customers if the ISP's anti-virus triggers on those very same patterns?  You can see that anti-virus must be applied at exactly one place only, and because of the multiplicity of incoming paths for some people, that place can only be the end-node or a gateway to a corporate network.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110084]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[mgordon@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:03:07 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Most Creative Response award]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110079]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Your response is well written but I think not very well thought out.  I am glad that the prosecution is going to rest.&quot;ISPs are a provider of information as are other utilities such as cable TV companies.&quot;No.  Neither of these types of companies provide information.  What they both provide, as a common carrier, is communications.   They are the conduit; the responsible parties are at the ENDS of the conduit.  If you unplugged the webservers at the other end of the conduit, you would still have your end, and you'd still have to pay your ISP. Your example about the V chip is a good one, but does not help your case.  The cable companies have nothing to do with labeling (or usually creating) the contents they carry.  It is the program originator that tags the contents and your television receiver that must examine these tags as required by law.  On a voluntary basis, websites can be tagged in several ways, and Internet Explorer can easily be enabled to process these tags.  My website is tagged as family friendly, for instance.I would like to see anyone who has ever worked at or for an ISP take your side of the argument.  No ISP in the world has the manpower to inspect the gigabytes of content that flow every second or every day through your wires.  Nor could any ISP know what YOU consider offensive, which will vary considerably from what your neighbors consider offensive.I've tried some filtering appliances, and invariably they cannot discern offensive talk from intelligent meta-talk about offensive topics.  Here we are talking about offensive internet topics, worms and viruses included; but if we were to actually give some examples, we all know that this very blog would be blocked.  These filters simply look for certain words and it is very easy to &quot;munge&quot; words to sneak them past the filters: I'm sure we all know about \/14GR4 pills.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2110079]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[mgordon@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 09:49:57 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[I don't want my email filtered by my ISP]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2109704]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[As great as 1&amp;1 is as a low cost ISP, when I turned on the mail filter it was using hueristics written by some moron. Half my mail turned up in the spam dir. I use mailwasher in concert with spam-cop input into the program it learns enough in about 2 months to take care of   85% of my email without intrevention. And no false positives.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2109704]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[support@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:36:18 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Yes They Should.  Here's Why...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2109574]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Think about this conceptually instead of technically and the burden of responsibility becomes clearer.  ISPs are a provider of information as are other utilities such as cable TV companies.  We may want to consider ISPs as a utility for the sake of argument.  Let's look at this first using the cable TV example.  Some cable TV stations offer porn and alternative programming.  It's up to the users who have entered into the agreement with the cable provider, the parents, to protect other users, the children, from this content.  They could use a content control system, say the V-chip (analogous to a firewall and A-V software for your TV).  The key difference is that the parents know UPFRONT EXACTLY what that content is and at what time it could possibly be placed on the screen to 'infect' the kids.  Malware doesn't adhere to programming and ratings rules, thus users cannot completely control it like they can TV viewing.  Therefore, more burden MUST be placed on the provider of the content, the ISP.What about the electric or natural gas companies you ask?  The content they pipe into your house can kill you.  Do we hold them accountable?  No, because their dangerous content is ALWAYS THERE, which again means I can easily predict the threat and mitigate related risks.  Furthermore, their content often warns me it is about to hurt me - sparks and arcing, and that wonderful rotten egg smell.  Again these scenarios are very different from threats presented by ISPs.  Different types of malware threats infect PCs based on different types of user actions: no firewall, clicking on a poisoned URL, unwittingly visiting an invected web site, always with no warning of any sort.  The only commonality in these scenarios is, yup, the ISP.  Once again, the ISP must take more responsibility for the content they pipe into our PCs.The prosecution rests.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2109574]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Scoid]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:02:18 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[What do you expect Road Authority do?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2109200]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Do you expect Road Authority to ensure that the roads you use are free from all risks. Of course not, road users must take most responsibilities to ensure that the risks are kept to minimum. Of course, I am not saying RA has no responsibility at all.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2109200]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[laman]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 04:27:57 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Global Community]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2109197]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Much if the problem is with those who write policy. They appear to be clueless that the net is a global community that transcends country borders and laws. ISPs cannot possibly provide the level of security required by themselves. Best practice is layered security. This means that every connection needs to have security.    How do we do that and maintain accessabilty?]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-2109197]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[JerryM MCSE+I / A+]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:44:38 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Your wrong about the home user...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-1921299]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[most would love to keep their systems clean and secure, the monies that they have invested in hardware and software represent a much larger percentage of available funds then ANY corporate investment in I.T. ever.The problem is one of knowledge: we in IT have spent years learning what ?good vs. bad? policy in computing is. Now you expect the average user to have your general knowledge? How many of these home users do you really think are CREATING viruses and worms? Where do you think they come from? Next how much time have YOU actually spent educating them? Home users are flooded with misinformation on how to run their computers and information on home networking is a joke.Yes people can be slow to get it, but to imply that they don?t care is wrong. If IT professionals could agree on standards and stick with them for more then a minute the average home user might get the chance to catch-up. Remember this is what WE get to do for a living, other people have other things to do in life. I will keep up on the IT, let my doctor keep up on medicine and my contractor keep up on building codes. Hopefully people will learn to take medical advice from the doctor, construction advice from the contractor and technical advice from me.Unless you think you can build your own house?with a fractured tibia.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-1921299]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[I.T.Services@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:18:47 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[We all have responsibility on this problem]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-1921277]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[However, this is really a SOCIETY problem.  I see machines on a near daily basis that are infected with all the &quot;nasties&quot; that you can think of and my clients ask generally &quot;why do these people make these things to break my machine&quot;  My answer generally goes something like this - bear with it there is some method in my madness!Would you let an Estate Agent, Solicitor, Double Glazing/Kitchen sales person or any other like minded people in your home on the promise of a &quot;Freebie&quot; or &quot;Discount&quot;?  When you go to the supermarket which carrier bag is better, the free one or the one that costs you 10p?Both analogies don't initially make the client think about their PC but they all answer the same = NO and 10p oneI then ask them why do they believe that the &quot;FREE program&quot; they downloaded was really FREE, or that the MP3s that they downloaded lastnight came purely with music content.The promises of FREE SOFTWARE plays into basic GREED and that is where most people get caught out, we all used to get two things &quot;FREE&quot; the first being &quot;Information&quot; but they are working on &quot;DRM&quot; and &quot;Intellectual Property&quot; so that is that one out of the window, and the other being &quot;AIR&quot; and the only reason we still get that free is that they have yet to find a way to charge us for it (HOWEVER, I have seen cans for sale in both computer magazines (for PCs) and the breathable stuff for sale in Debenhams in READING UK)EXPECT NOTHING FOR FREE!!!!!! STOP GETTING SUCKED IN!!!We all have responsibility on this problem if it is to get sorted out.  All machines should be running AV, Firewall and Anti-spyware of some description.  ALL machines sold should have a full version (variation dependant on preference) of each and the industry needs to accept that these are as neccessary as electricty (and yes I do understand that not every machine goes on the internet), All machines prior to despatch need to be sent out 100% up to date with all relevant updates AND the person buying the machine needs to accept that the machine is not going to cost ?200 and that they have a responsibility to keeping our virtual society safe for all users.  Obviously there are going to be costs to put this in place and the purchasing off the shelf of PCs is going to be affected but better that, than the state we are getting into.This is possible - ALL my machines do not leave my workshop without being fully up to date - its a pride thing!!The ISP can help in some of the problem areas that we have created.  All files stored on their servers should be regularly scanned and if all service providers carried out this action then part of the problem would disappear.   - HYPOTHETICALLY - If a man does not know he has HIV and he passes it on and infects another person who subsequently dies - IS IT MANSLAUGHTER? WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE AND EVERYONE SHOULD BE TAKING EVERY PRECAUTION POSSIBLE ** HOWEVER **THE ISP IS NOT SOLEY RESPONSIBLE NOR HELD OVERALL ACCOUNTABLE UNLESS THAT SPECIFIC THREAT IS HELD ON THEIR SERVER AND THE PROVERBIAL S*** SHOULD HIT SOMEONES FAN!!!JEFF IMMSSystems Administrator/Engineer]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-1921277]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[jeffro in Berkshire]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2006 05:33:23 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[&quot;We just provide a service&quot;]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-1909410]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[The &quot;service&quot; referred to in &quot;we just provide a service&quot; is equivalent to a package delivery service. FedEx doesn't open every package to check the contents, and you'd have a screaming fit if they did. And since most viruses, like every downloaded file/software/image/whatever, comes in little pieces, that would be the equivalent of having FedEx hold on to all the packages until it assembled the whole thing, and then delivering it to you. The (ethical) ISP-mailbox service does check for viruses, as all the little packages have arrived and been assembled. To continue the car/road analogy, the road owner would be required to put up roadblocks at then ends of your street and check the contents of all trucks and cars for illegal material before letting them drive down your street. The only place the whole thing comes together is on the end user's computer. I repeat, the only place it comes together is on the end user's computer. Which is the only place all those little bitty pieces turn into one big monster and the only place the virus software can identify and the kill it. For the purposes of viruses attached to email, the ISP-mailbox can be considered the end user, and can have virus checkers at that point. For everything else, it's that box with the lights and the whirring noise sitting on or next to your desk.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-1909410]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[lindaniel@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:40:12 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[And you too?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-1909346]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Oh, goodie. Can I send out email, fake the headers so it sounds like you and watch while the big yellow truck pulls up in front of your house? The qualifier is the killer -- IF YOU CAN IDENTIFY THE SENDER... First thing virus writers learned how to do. I'm not real web savvy and I can spoof headers.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-1909346]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[lindaniel@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:04:27 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Can't check for virus at ISP level...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-1909344]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[because the virus comes in in pieces. If it's attached to an email, the ISP-mailbox can check it, because the ISP-mailbox has reassembled all the pieces. The virus that comes in from a website or that comes in because some unshielded user clicks on a dubious link in an email is transported thru various ISPs in separate little pieces (called packets) that don't get assembled into the big ugly monster until it arrives at the host computer. Unless you really like the idea of any ISP anywhere holding on to all those pieces until they can be assembled and verified, then and only then passing them on to you, thus slowing down the I-want-it-now email/web surfing experience back to the stone age, and adding the Big Brother aspect on top of that, the end user is going to have to get a grip and get the software.Y'canna change the laws of physics.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-1909344]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[lindaniel@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2005 08:58:40 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Sue the who?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-1909317]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[The problems we're discussing here aren't with the software (sue the dealer, etc), it's with the transport (the road). If your car was having problems like the internet has viruses, would you sue the dealer? Or the manufacturers/installers of the road? Or the road material? If the parking lot had holes in it, would you shop at that store? If I handed you a package full of parts, would you know if those parts were something the recipient wanted or junk parts, just by looking at the parts? And since each box of parts (a packet) is just a piece of the whole thing, how are you to know what the whole thing is? Unless you-as-ISP want to hang on to all these boxes of parts until the whole thing arrives. Besides ruining the I-want-it-now aspect of email/web surfing, the Big Brother aspect makes me a bit nervous.Keeping viruses and spam under control is going to cost time/money. I can require my ISP to do it, which will slow down my service (time) and probably cost money to pay for the people who do the looking and the software to spot the trends. Or I can do it myself, which costs money to get software and the time to install it, and keep Big Brother farther away from my stuff. Then I can choose what I see. I can choose what to block.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-1909317]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[lindaniel@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2005 08:48:04 -0800</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[HELLLL  YES]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-1908993]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[ardon my bluntness. This will be however the FIRST day in in a fricking year I can post something this long.I am a business of one. I started out as a tech and have gradually turned my focus into security. All this whill raising 2 teenage daughters etc. Up until TODAY, I have been under a massive atack from &quot;certain parties&quot;, . Its ALL of them and ONE of me. My ISP had several &quot;tier 2&quot; level techs Observe. Nothing. I collected, mac addies, REAL IP's ( before they wisened up), etc etc. They have/had TONS of evidence as well as the financial resources to get foresnics done on a scale that they could make an examle of these &quot;buttheads&quot;. Well, Seems they were more interested in buying ATT then listening to their customers. I have personally given them over 500 clients over the years. To Make matters worse?, the attackers not only nailed me with scripts, but nails the firmware on my dsl modems so they just &quot;died&quot;. Took 2 months to get just 1 back! THAT WAS TODAY...I of course had to use cable and sat ,just to download drivers, for repa irjobs. So far, my estimate of losses and time is about 70K . I am NOT a wealthy man and it took a LOT of blood, sweat and tears to climb up the financial ladder. How did this happen?, Lets see, the nice guys they were started hitting me while I was watching my mom have a heart attack on a plane, she then died as the pilot refused to land, Of couse when I tried to communicate effectively, I found out, I was under attack.I guess thats what I get for NOT being a litle programming script  monkey. I however and working on correcting THAT weakness.  What these guys didnt count on is,,I will NEVER quit!Its made me a better tech,and took measure of me as a man and husband. Im sorrry...sorry, getting a little giddy that I am typing on the internet at HOME! ( Which by chance is where I run my company from) Go figure... In parting?,  NEVER believe in  the following:1 isp2. 1 security company3..s:...I found out what 7 av companies took a year to figure out...If it walks like a duck, flies like a duck?, It AINT a COW!Have a pleasant evening..regardsJohn CarrollOwner/OperatorNighttechSorry I HAD to edit that text Hopefully, this is more coherent!]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/4-186292-1908993]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[nighttech@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:49:18 -0800</pubDate>
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