Microsoft plans to incorporate new anti-piracy technology in Windows Vista that will help put an end to pirated software. Windows Vista?s "reduced functionality mode" will lock people out of their PCs if the OS isn't activated with a legitimate product registration key within 30 days.
How long do you think it will take before people find a way around the product registration key in Windows Vista?
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most people will probably keep XP around for a while. I think that the first 6 months of Vista will be like Me when it was released.
That said, to answer your question, and note, I am not a developer.
I think that it will be cracked pretty quickly, lets say, less than 2 months. But I think that the majority of people in the USA will use legit copies, and still get locked out occasionally.
That said, to answer your question, and note, I am not a developer.
I think that it will be cracked pretty quickly, lets say, less than 2 months. But I think that the majority of people in the USA will use legit copies, and still get locked out occasionally.
Are Volume License stuff where one of the MS Certified Partners buys the package and just installs the product on everything that they sell.
What makes this worse is that this is abused Genuine Product and in most cases that I've run into here it's the end user who suffers because MS can not get their hands on the now defunct company who originally flogged the software.
As far as generating Product Keys I don't know how things go with the current WGA but when it comes to cable TV the cracks are available on line within a few minutes of the changes occurring. I dare say the same will apply to the Different versions of Vista when it becomes available. Though I personally think that the major problem will remain with Volume License Product which doesn't need Activating.
Col
What makes this worse is that this is abused Genuine Product and in most cases that I've run into here it's the end user who suffers because MS can not get their hands on the now defunct company who originally flogged the software.
As far as generating Product Keys I don't know how things go with the current WGA but when it comes to cable TV the cracks are available on line within a few minutes of the changes occurring. I dare say the same will apply to the Different versions of Vista when it becomes available. Though I personally think that the major problem will remain with Volume License Product which doesn't need Activating.
Col
Working at a computer repair shop, you see this EVERYwhere. I can tell you in my early days I even had several of my own computers on the lovely Windows XP Pro SP2 Corporate Edition, perfect for any pirate in training. No activation, no worries about getting updates up untill WGA and it worked like a charm.
What most people don't understand is how many people use these copies. It's not just the geek down the street. To quote ZDnet, "35% of the packaged software installed on personal computers worldwide in 2005 was illegal, amounting to $34 bln in global losses". And I'm sure a big chunk of that was M$ products. The couple complaints from people about WGA is well worth the possible billions they could get from people being forced to get a legal version of Windows.
But knowing M$, they'll probably come up with a great idea to fix this, only half way develop the idea, and end up putting a patch/SP out a couple months later to finish the idea.
What most people don't understand is how many people use these copies. It's not just the geek down the street. To quote ZDnet, "35% of the packaged software installed on personal computers worldwide in 2005 was illegal, amounting to $34 bln in global losses". And I'm sure a big chunk of that was M$ products. The couple complaints from people about WGA is well worth the possible billions they could get from people being forced to get a legal version of Windows.
But knowing M$, they'll probably come up with a great idea to fix this, only half way develop the idea, and end up putting a patch/SP out a couple months later to finish the idea.
people with vested interests in over stating the amount, as it justifies their position and business. The second point is that the vast majority of this pirate software is in countries where the software isn't protected by laws anyway - eg China, etc.
A side point, raised by another are:
If there are no pirate Whinedoze versions, then those pirate copies will NOT convert to sales of legal software. People use the pirate software because they can't afford the legal stuff, at this time. Often they use it at home while a student, and then buy legal software when they can afford it, they buy what they're familiar with. So the pirate software, later leads to legal sales. If they can't get MS at a low enough price, they won't get MS at all, and those sales wil never go to MS.
In short, this is NOT going to increase legal sales in any way. It may stop pirate sales and force people to other OSs, and will lead to lowered sales, as the people will be familiar with the other OS, and never buy Whinedoze when they can afford legal software.
A few complaints about WGA, yeah, right. teh problem is bigger than that. Corporations are complaining about the problems and costs caused by WGA shutting down systems. Their response is to look at moving away from WGA, that means moving away from MS Whinedoze, this may take some years, but some companies are already actively looking at Linux and having the next generation of their specialty apps designed for linux or Unix.
At present, each new version of Whinedoze requires a new update of your major apps. If you have to update, why not update for good, and move to a better OS, that doesn't give so many headaches.
Long term this will cost MS big dollars, not gain any.
A side point, raised by another are:
If there are no pirate Whinedoze versions, then those pirate copies will NOT convert to sales of legal software. People use the pirate software because they can't afford the legal stuff, at this time. Often they use it at home while a student, and then buy legal software when they can afford it, they buy what they're familiar with. So the pirate software, later leads to legal sales. If they can't get MS at a low enough price, they won't get MS at all, and those sales wil never go to MS.
In short, this is NOT going to increase legal sales in any way. It may stop pirate sales and force people to other OSs, and will lead to lowered sales, as the people will be familiar with the other OS, and never buy Whinedoze when they can afford legal software.
A few complaints about WGA, yeah, right. teh problem is bigger than that. Corporations are complaining about the problems and costs caused by WGA shutting down systems. Their response is to look at moving away from WGA, that means moving away from MS Whinedoze, this may take some years, but some companies are already actively looking at Linux and having the next generation of their specialty apps designed for linux or Unix.
At present, each new version of Whinedoze requires a new update of your major apps. If you have to update, why not update for good, and move to a better OS, that doesn't give so many headaches.
Long term this will cost MS big dollars, not gain any.
Currently I have a problem with a dead guys computer that I bought the original copy of XP Pro from one of MS's resellers and these are the major wholesalers not the little low volume wholesalers which I've killed the DSL connection as the computer only has to be kept for about 5 years till the Tax Cycle ends and there is no possibility of the Tax Man coming after a Deceased persons Estate.
Now as this is a free job I'm not overly happy with the current problem I've had to turn off Windows Updates because they where hogging all the available Bandwidth and slowing down dramatically the ability to collect E-Mail that was left over from prior to the death of this guy and open Web Pages.
On the 26-6-2006 I turned off Windows Update and last night when I tried to open the computer to apply some AV Updates I got a lovely This Is A Pirate Copy of Windows display that I can not work around.
Out of desperation I rang MS Tech Sup[port and was promptly told that A This is really a Pirate copy of XP Pro or B I must be mistaken as this Can Not Happen.
Now as I built the computer and know exactly what was put into it I know that there is a perfectly Genuine Copy of Windows installed and I know that the thing isn't working properly & I'm totally locked out of the system so there is no chance of a Quick Fix. The fact that both SP1 &2 as well as WGA installed without a single problem is beside the point either I have a Pirate Copy of XP Pro which it most certainly is not or I'm an Idiot That may be correct but I was only telling them what came up on the screen.
Now MS answer is to do a repair Install and see if that works and if not try an In place Install and in 2 days time they will ring back and see how I'm going. I'm not actually overly concerned with the actual immediate problem but I don't want to see it happen every few months as the wife who is still under heavy medication is very fragile and falls apart at every slight problem. I personally don't need to contribute to these problems that she has but I have to keep the computer running and as I'm not getting paid for my trouble I really don't want top spend 100's of hours finding a solution.
In this one case WGA is a very real problem that is adversely impacting on the health of the surviving family member and it's something that I really don't need to deal with. Crying women are not my first choice and this one is anything but stable.
Sure I could quite rightly walk away saying It's Not My Problem but as the owner has been a excellent customer for over 15 years I feel obliged to help out. This should only involve a few minutes every few months to keep running and nothing else should be required. Unfortunately it's not working out that way and I really don't want to put more problems on this poor woman.
However if this was a copy loaded from an Action Pack this problem wouldn't be arising. Either way I just see it as wrong and I'm far less than happy about the entire incident.
Col
Now as this is a free job I'm not overly happy with the current problem I've had to turn off Windows Updates because they where hogging all the available Bandwidth and slowing down dramatically the ability to collect E-Mail that was left over from prior to the death of this guy and open Web Pages.
On the 26-6-2006 I turned off Windows Update and last night when I tried to open the computer to apply some AV Updates I got a lovely This Is A Pirate Copy of Windows display that I can not work around.
Out of desperation I rang MS Tech Sup[port and was promptly told that A This is really a Pirate copy of XP Pro or B I must be mistaken as this Can Not Happen.
Now as I built the computer and know exactly what was put into it I know that there is a perfectly Genuine Copy of Windows installed and I know that the thing isn't working properly & I'm totally locked out of the system so there is no chance of a Quick Fix. The fact that both SP1 &2 as well as WGA installed without a single problem is beside the point either I have a Pirate Copy of XP Pro which it most certainly is not or I'm an Idiot That may be correct but I was only telling them what came up on the screen.
Now MS answer is to do a repair Install and see if that works and if not try an In place Install and in 2 days time they will ring back and see how I'm going. I'm not actually overly concerned with the actual immediate problem but I don't want to see it happen every few months as the wife who is still under heavy medication is very fragile and falls apart at every slight problem. I personally don't need to contribute to these problems that she has but I have to keep the computer running and as I'm not getting paid for my trouble I really don't want top spend 100's of hours finding a solution.
In this one case WGA is a very real problem that is adversely impacting on the health of the surviving family member and it's something that I really don't need to deal with. Crying women are not my first choice and this one is anything but stable.
Sure I could quite rightly walk away saying It's Not My Problem but as the owner has been a excellent customer for over 15 years I feel obliged to help out. This should only involve a few minutes every few months to keep running and nothing else should be required. Unfortunately it's not working out that way and I really don't want to put more problems on this poor woman.
However if this was a copy loaded from an Action Pack this problem wouldn't be arising. Either way I just see it as wrong and I'm far less than happy about the entire incident.
Col
single install copies of Whinedoze XP Pro. It's exactly why I gave up on it and have switched to Linux. In the seven cases I've seen, it has appeared where the original install was a single, fully licenced copy of XP Pro, in the fancy box with the seriel number, bought from MS Aust. SP1 is loaded, SP2 is loaded, WGA is loaded. Auto updates are used for a while. Then you turn off auto updates and start to pick and choose which you want. You don't do any updates for 28 days - whammy you get shot. Seven different machines, three it happened twice.
In one case the owner got so frustrated, that she took the pirate copy of XP Pro her son brought home from school and put it on. She does no updates at all now, but the system doesn't lock up either. She keeps the original disc sitting with the computer, in case they every check her software licences, it's a business computer - she can't afford the lockdowns.
In the other cases, two are now Linux, the other 4 have to use Whinedoze for a specific app, and they won't consider anything else. So clean installs of XP PRO SP1 only, no SP2, no WGA, no updates beyond SP1. Another machines has the internet connection and has and both have firewalls. Best that can be done with this rubbish.
WGA = Whinedoze Guaranteed Agrivation
In one case the owner got so frustrated, that she took the pirate copy of XP Pro her son brought home from school and put it on. She does no updates at all now, but the system doesn't lock up either. She keeps the original disc sitting with the computer, in case they every check her software licences, it's a business computer - she can't afford the lockdowns.
In the other cases, two are now Linux, the other 4 have to use Whinedoze for a specific app, and they won't consider anything else. So clean installs of XP PRO SP1 only, no SP2, no WGA, no updates beyond SP1. Another machines has the internet connection and has and both have firewalls. Best that can be done with this rubbish.
WGA = Whinedoze Guaranteed Agrivation
The Head of MS Tech is away at the moment I should have realized that with Vista coming so soon I wouldn't have got him.
As things stand at the moment I'm supposed to try a Rescue install and wait for MS to ring back on Thursday between 1.30 to 2.00 PM.
I have this terrible sinking feeling in my guts that it's going to be exactly the same as the problem that I ran into with SP1 for XP. When every possibility had been exhausted by MS I was told to ring them when I had a fix.
That was an incompatible DVD Player that caused that problem and took ages to find out. I just don't want to go through the entire thing all over again particularly as the woman in question isn't capable of listening.
Tonight when I picked up the computer I told her that I was going to wait for a phone call from MS Tech Support and that would be between 1.30 to 2.00 PM Thursday and she promptly replied that I could return the computer after 12.30 as she would then be home. Currently with all he drugs that the quacks have her on she's not overly reasonable and I really don't want to make things worse.
Now what was it that I was saying about No Good Turn Ever Goes Unpunished?
Personally I think that I'll be stuck with a In Place Install from the original install CD and just adding SP1. It doesn't need any more than that for the little use that it's going to be getting.
Col
As things stand at the moment I'm supposed to try a Rescue install and wait for MS to ring back on Thursday between 1.30 to 2.00 PM.
I have this terrible sinking feeling in my guts that it's going to be exactly the same as the problem that I ran into with SP1 for XP. When every possibility had been exhausted by MS I was told to ring them when I had a fix.
That was an incompatible DVD Player that caused that problem and took ages to find out. I just don't want to go through the entire thing all over again particularly as the woman in question isn't capable of listening.
Tonight when I picked up the computer I told her that I was going to wait for a phone call from MS Tech Support and that would be between 1.30 to 2.00 PM Thursday and she promptly replied that I could return the computer after 12.30 as she would then be home. Currently with all he drugs that the quacks have her on she's not overly reasonable and I really don't want to make things worse.
Now what was it that I was saying about No Good Turn Ever Goes Unpunished?
Personally I think that I'll be stuck with a In Place Install from the original install CD and just adding SP1. It doesn't need any more than that for the little use that it's going to be getting.
Col
MS is entitled to get payed for services provided (eg provision of OS) However they should NOT be entitled to insist that a user has to use their product in a certain way (eg activate). I pay for my software and want to use it unrestricted after taking it out of the box. As long as I do not do anything illegal (eg pitate) why do I have to do anything else but use the system. Asked me once a month to put a valid CD in the drive or something that does NOT involve any further dealing with MS. I can live with this. But why do I have to connect to MS?
Hello Hal and D_E.
It's been a while and it's good to read you guys again.
I've had exactly the same problem.
I bought my XPPro Brand New Last August and then as usual crashed.{I'm making a long story short} I crashed twice freely then on the third install, my number no longer worked and I had to call Microsoft.
Whereupon they gave me a new number to punch in, but there was a catch.
Now, no matter what I now do, all my Drives are interconnected ie; Shared and no matter how many time I try to undo this, when I do a shut down restart, they come back all shared again. I don't want the drives to be shared nor do I want to have to go to Microsoft and get a new number every time I re-install.This tell's me that they are in contact with my system. They've even given themselves managerial rights on my system.
All this because of their stupid need to Dominate.
I paid serious money for this program and should certainly be able to consider it mine,not to be shared by Microsoft.
This Validation ins nothing more than subterfuge, it's their way of maintaining control over your PC, something that I deeply resent.This Computer is Mine, as are all the peripherals, So is the Program I therefore see no need for Microsoft to control that which is not their's EULA notwhistanding.
I deeply resent my privacy invaded under an obviously false pretext.I don't need MS to tell me I'm Genuine. Sell me the Product clear, no validation should be required.
We are paying for the crooks and Microsoft is using this as a method of control. This is wrong.
Anyway,Enough of my ranting, been away and it's good to be home talking to you guys.
Thanks for the Ear.
Regards
Aaron
It's been a while and it's good to read you guys again.
I've had exactly the same problem.
I bought my XPPro Brand New Last August and then as usual crashed.{I'm making a long story short} I crashed twice freely then on the third install, my number no longer worked and I had to call Microsoft.
Whereupon they gave me a new number to punch in, but there was a catch.
Now, no matter what I now do, all my Drives are interconnected ie; Shared and no matter how many time I try to undo this, when I do a shut down restart, they come back all shared again. I don't want the drives to be shared nor do I want to have to go to Microsoft and get a new number every time I re-install.This tell's me that they are in contact with my system. They've even given themselves managerial rights on my system.
All this because of their stupid need to Dominate.
I paid serious money for this program and should certainly be able to consider it mine,not to be shared by Microsoft.
This Validation ins nothing more than subterfuge, it's their way of maintaining control over your PC, something that I deeply resent.This Computer is Mine, as are all the peripherals, So is the Program I therefore see no need for Microsoft to control that which is not their's EULA notwhistanding.
I deeply resent my privacy invaded under an obviously false pretext.I don't need MS to tell me I'm Genuine. Sell me the Product clear, no validation should be required.
We are paying for the crooks and Microsoft is using this as a method of control. This is wrong.
Anyway,Enough of my ranting, been away and it's good to be home talking to you guys.
Thanks for the Ear.
Regards
Aaron
I read a quote just a couple hours ago in this months Windows IT Pro magazine by Paul Thurrott stating that even the volume license versions will require activation. No version of Vista apparently will escape this requirement.
-J-
-J-
It's something that M$ has dropped in on us since originally talking to their Partners about Licensing Procedures.
When they first started talking about what is now known as Vista we where told that things would remain the same as for the previous products as per the Volume Licensing Requirements that we where previously using.
But recently this has been changed so we now have to activate at the very least every copy of Vista that we sell on a Volume License. I've been told that this is No Big Deal & it will not Add much time to each Build that we do.
If only it was so!
Col
When they first started talking about what is now known as Vista we where told that things would remain the same as for the previous products as per the Volume Licensing Requirements that we where previously using.
But recently this has been changed so we now have to activate at the very least every copy of Vista that we sell on a Volume License. I've been told that this is No Big Deal & it will not Add much time to each Build that we do.
If only it was so!
Col
I read a quote just a couple hours ago in this months Windows IT Pro magazine by Paul Thurrott stating that even the volume license versions will require activation. No version of Vista apparently will escape this requirement.
-J-
-J-
constantly locking me out of my legal copy of XP (I have a right not to use autoupdates, but MS disagree) so I switched to SimplyMEPIS Linux, who needs a MS product key - not me.
who have started switching to Linux. For basic computing it is not a bad OS. It gets much more complicated though, when trying to really learn it.
I have been moving over to SUSE more and more.
I have been moving over to SUSE more and more.
Ubuntu 6.06 LTS installs easily, virtually any application you can do with MS, there is a similar mirror of it under a different name and slightly different way of performing the same tasks in Open Source software applications. Use Ubuntu's software repositories and they install flawlessly. Linux shouldn't scare anyone any moreso than OS X. I wouldn't consider Linux a basic OS, it's equally as capable of Windows and then some. Vista is actually becoming more like OS X and Linux, but still bears the heftier pricetags.
Off topic, had to laugh, the guy boasting about getting Vista RC1 32/64 bit versions, was walking out of work moments ago, he can't even get the 32 bit version to install on a standard issue, same hardware across the board Dell. He tells me other's are experiencing this same issue. Hey, when Microsoft pays me or anyone else for wasted time on/with Vista, their OS should be free. Makes me appreciate Ubuntu even more.
Off topic, had to laugh, the guy boasting about getting Vista RC1 32/64 bit versions, was walking out of work moments ago, he can't even get the 32 bit version to install on a standard issue, same hardware across the board Dell. He tells me other's are experiencing this same issue. Hey, when Microsoft pays me or anyone else for wasted time on/with Vista, their OS should be free. Makes me appreciate Ubuntu even more.
I have tried fedora, kept having issues, and so I tried a couple of others, and ended up on SUSE 10
The only trouble I had with it was (on a notebook) it tried installing the Wireless network card and not the LAN. On a reinstall (before I knew what was going on) I saw in the setup this, so I switched it to install the LAN default.
After that the install was simple. On a desktop system, I had no problems.
The only other thing was installing the media player for DVD's. I had to follow instructions from 4 different sites for the proper downloads, and it still fails to install because I am missing another download. I installed 9 things to get it working and then thought it to be too time consuming and gave up for then. never got back to it.
The only trouble I had with it was (on a notebook) it tried installing the Wireless network card and not the LAN. On a reinstall (before I knew what was going on) I saw in the setup this, so I switched it to install the LAN default.
After that the install was simple. On a desktop system, I had no problems.
The only other thing was installing the media player for DVD's. I had to follow instructions from 4 different sites for the proper downloads, and it still fails to install because I am missing another download. I installed 9 things to get it working and then thought it to be too time consuming and gave up for then. never got back to it.
ended up at SimplyMEPIS, I found it a bit easer to use than Ubuntu. MEPIS 6 uses the Ubuntu Dapper packages, and is now about 80% Ubuntu, just a few differences that I find a bit better. MEPIS is easier to do some admin functions than Ubuntu Badger (the version I tried).
Re the DVDs, have your tried the Xine from
www.xinehq.de
I'm using Kaffeine, just had to load a special file that decodes the corporate protection rubbish.
Re the DVDs, have your tried the Xine from
www.xinehq.de
I'm using Kaffeine, just had to load a special file that decodes the corporate protection rubbish.
I don't know jow it works in Suse, but Ubuntu, there are two obvious ways to get applications, the first, the menu at the top has an Applications selection, at the bottom of the pop up menu tree is the add/remove. From there Xine and a host of other dvd players/media players is automatically installed thru the repositories after downloading and applying the selections, dependencies are handled thru the repository. Just make sure you pick the main application first, then whatever libs and other dependencies are indicated to be selected. By all means select them and proceed.
The second method, Synaptics Package Manager, is under System, administration and then look for Synaptics Package Manager.
The second method, Synaptics Package Manager, is under System, administration and then look for Synaptics Package Manager.
will be to have the hybrid free/commercial distros. I am about to try Linspire for this very reason. Ok, I pay for it ($12 on ebay) but it has propritary drivers and applications not on the free versions. I am hoping that this will solve some of my problems too.
at Micro Center recently. But it is a yearly subscription for the SW packages and updates. After a few yrs. it costs as much as XP Pro.
But in defense of SUSE, I was installing rpm packages for the media player, at the time I didnt realize that YAST installed apps as well.
And that there was more SW on the dvd and Novells site (to install with YAST).
But I havent had the need to watch a DVD at work, or on the road, so I didnt continue.
For the most part, as just a user, I have had very little problems with SUSE, and many administrative functions are pretty easy too. I just don't know them all yet.
But in defense of SUSE, I was installing rpm packages for the media player, at the time I didnt realize that YAST installed apps as well.
And that there was more SW on the dvd and Novells site (to install with YAST).
But I havent had the need to watch a DVD at work, or on the road, so I didnt continue.
For the most part, as just a user, I have had very little problems with SUSE, and many administrative functions are pretty easy too. I just don't know them all yet.
My time is valuable as well as my customers time. I pay Microsoft for their software and follow the privilages of the OS lease. The problems I see that security addresses is most often caused by thrid party "holes in the wall". I can put many locks on my door but if I give the keys to another I could have a serious problem.
Vista has addressed this issue: if software doesn't meet the requirements it doesn't get installed. I have two PCs running Vista one 64bit the other 32 bit. Its the best and I don't want some else using my EULA product key. Thanks MS for a great product. Eveybody gets rewarded for their work, with their own legal copy. Time is important: stick with well known legal products.
Vista has addressed this issue: if software doesn't meet the requirements it doesn't get installed. I have two PCs running Vista one 64bit the other 32 bit. Its the best and I don't want some else using my EULA product key. Thanks MS for a great product. Eveybody gets rewarded for their work, with their own legal copy. Time is important: stick with well known legal products.
It's not your EULA, it's MS's
The 3rd party holes in previous versions of windows were engineered by MS, so 3rd party software would run.
I personally welcome the security improvement, but I know it's going to cause one or three problems for businesses with vista incompatible 3rd party and inhouse applications. It's going to range from a trivial problems to total carnage. So you might find a few people less than sanguine about your blase acceptance.
Best what by the way
P.S What hardware are you running the 64 on, did you get the driver signing issues?
The 3rd party holes in previous versions of windows were engineered by MS, so 3rd party software would run.
I personally welcome the security improvement, but I know it's going to cause one or three problems for businesses with vista incompatible 3rd party and inhouse applications. It's going to range from a trivial problems to total carnage. So you might find a few people less than sanguine about your blase acceptance.
Best what by the way
P.S What hardware are you running the 64 on, did you get the driver signing issues?
"The 3rd party holes in previous versions of windows were engineered by MS, so 3rd party software would run."
The whole idea of an OS is to run third party software, thus it should be made to run them properly, not via holes.
Secondly, people who make third party software for Windows, pay MS for the code and list of instructions to enable them to write their software compatible with Windows. SO it's MS's decision on what they are given, and how it's writtern.
The basic concept behind modern software is that applications do things and then give the OS commands from various basic sets, the OS then does things with those commands. The OS should be written such that the application writers need not know the OS code, just the commands to give the OS. This was set out as a recommended industry standard over a decade ago. Yet, MS don't do it that way, thus the need for application writers to get the MS code.
Having made people to pay for that code to people so that they can interface with MS Windows, MS should be responsible for seeing that the code stays operational, and not arbitrarily change it. If they need to make changes to fix a problem, then the changes should be further into the system. E.g. if command routine 'x' has a problem in its code and MS want to change that, then the can do so by having the call procedure the same, the routine the same name, and rewrite the routine. Sadly, that is NOT how MS usually write code patches.
Re the 64 bit hardware, when I ran XP on my 64 bit system, thie biggest driver issue I had was finding 64 bit drivers for my MS Intellimouse - I buy the latest MS OS (XP 64 bit edition) and it doesn't have 64 bit drivers for their own hardware, then I find that it's another 6 months before their website does (nearly a year since they released the 64 bit XP). Yet, Linux had 64 bit drivers available for the MS Intellimouse with every 64 bit edition I tested, kind of funny that.
The whole idea of an OS is to run third party software, thus it should be made to run them properly, not via holes.
Secondly, people who make third party software for Windows, pay MS for the code and list of instructions to enable them to write their software compatible with Windows. SO it's MS's decision on what they are given, and how it's writtern.
The basic concept behind modern software is that applications do things and then give the OS commands from various basic sets, the OS then does things with those commands. The OS should be written such that the application writers need not know the OS code, just the commands to give the OS. This was set out as a recommended industry standard over a decade ago. Yet, MS don't do it that way, thus the need for application writers to get the MS code.
Having made people to pay for that code to people so that they can interface with MS Windows, MS should be responsible for seeing that the code stays operational, and not arbitrarily change it. If they need to make changes to fix a problem, then the changes should be further into the system. E.g. if command routine 'x' has a problem in its code and MS want to change that, then the can do so by having the call procedure the same, the routine the same name, and rewrite the routine. Sadly, that is NOT how MS usually write code patches.
Re the 64 bit hardware, when I ran XP on my 64 bit system, thie biggest driver issue I had was finding 64 bit drivers for my MS Intellimouse - I buy the latest MS OS (XP 64 bit edition) and it doesn't have 64 bit drivers for their own hardware, then I find that it's another 6 months before their website does (nearly a year since they released the 64 bit XP). Yet, Linux had 64 bit drivers available for the MS Intellimouse with every 64 bit edition I tested, kind of funny that.
i have the same problem vista rc1 will not install were beta 2 used to sit. even as a clean install.
in each case it stops at the very same point almost done but not yet done. it then locks up and stays put there or reboots and reboots.
makes up ms? if this is going to be the case then i think i be building more machines with linux on them.
in each case it stops at the very same point almost done but not yet done. it then locks up and stays put there or reboots and reboots.
makes up ms? if this is going to be the case then i think i be building more machines with linux on them.
But for Vista this has to be a self inflicted wound. When MS feels compelled to charge what they will do for Vista , I won't buy that crap (and that's if I ever do need it at all) until it works with at least XP compatibility & reliability.
I saw this earlier in the AM and commented about how this will effect adoption of Vista. Microsoft fully expects this to be an impediment to a bigger transition from XP to Vista (they're shooting themselves in the foot). I don't see this as a barrier, rather I see it as an opportunity to enjoy Ubuntu Linux. No codes, autoupdates & no limitations. This will even make me think twice about running OS X on a PC if it comes down to a choice of what to buy/pay for. I see OS X becoming a bigger player, may even influence pricing of Windows and other MS products. Apple needs to view themselves as not only a viable competitor to Dell, HP and others for hardware, but in a real arena where the real battle line will become the OS and software applications. Before Jobs claimed his OS was superior on a closed platform (PPC), now he's going to get his chance to prove it. When the best MS has to offer in Vista is $ 399 a copy and Apple can put OS X out for $ 139 or so, this has to be advantage Apple. Linux doesn't help either MS or Apple, but at least is you have to pay for one, OS X is significantly more cost effective. If Apple makes Leopard compatible with older G4 PPC, I'll be buying it long before a Vista purchase, that's if Vista is ever bought. Maybe hardware vendors can bundle Vista with a hdd, otherwise, I could care less if I ever use it beyond the beta and RC stages.
I understand MS's need to curb piracy, this is a good approach for themselves to implement at the hdd level of each machine Vista is installed on. I've beta'ed Vista and it will expire 6/1/2007. This and anything else MS may hasten it's removal, I really don't use it all that much anyway, especially when I've decided Ubuntu Linux is my solution. Why waste time and resources learning Vista, once you've used a Windows product it's no different from release to release since Windows 98 SE. To be honest I could care less about MS at this stage of the game, this Vista product is smoke and mirrors, relying on an over abundance of resources rather than a lean and mean approach to an OS. I don't buy faster cpu's, better graphics, larger and faster storage & memory for it to be unproductively wasted on bloated eye candy. Let MS keep Vista Beta/RC1, Office 2007 Beta and IE 7 Beta. Some of the hardware that Vista supports today, those drivers will not be included with the production release. So that day they'll not only require me to upgrade software, but hardware as well. Or at least that is the thought process. I refuse to, Ubuntu Linux and it's open source applications are my choice moving forward and has been for the last 126 days. I intend for my hardware to be usable and productive for at least a few more years, not the predetermined obsolescence that MS has planned.
MS continues to cut their own throats, they hang themselves with their own rope. For those that rely on them, pooor souls, those of us that have evolved to Linux are free of & from MS.
I understand MS's need to curb piracy, this is a good approach for themselves to implement at the hdd level of each machine Vista is installed on. I've beta'ed Vista and it will expire 6/1/2007. This and anything else MS may hasten it's removal, I really don't use it all that much anyway, especially when I've decided Ubuntu Linux is my solution. Why waste time and resources learning Vista, once you've used a Windows product it's no different from release to release since Windows 98 SE. To be honest I could care less about MS at this stage of the game, this Vista product is smoke and mirrors, relying on an over abundance of resources rather than a lean and mean approach to an OS. I don't buy faster cpu's, better graphics, larger and faster storage & memory for it to be unproductively wasted on bloated eye candy. Let MS keep Vista Beta/RC1, Office 2007 Beta and IE 7 Beta. Some of the hardware that Vista supports today, those drivers will not be included with the production release. So that day they'll not only require me to upgrade software, but hardware as well. Or at least that is the thought process. I refuse to, Ubuntu Linux and it's open source applications are my choice moving forward and has been for the last 126 days. I intend for my hardware to be usable and productive for at least a few more years, not the predetermined obsolescence that MS has planned.
MS continues to cut their own throats, they hang themselves with their own rope. For those that rely on them, pooor souls, those of us that have evolved to Linux are free of & from MS.
For the last month or more the mere mention of MS and Vista seems to draw you out to make misinformed and inaccurate statements about an OS you can't have possibly tried. We are aware that you are a Linux weenie, but get real, Linux is just another flavor of OS it has its strengths and plenty of weaknesses as well. I will agree that on looking at Ubuntu Dapper Drake that they are getting close to being a friendly desktop. But until it can read my hardware accurately and supply the correct drivers for that hardware, and perhaps make suggestions for software that will take advantage of its capabilities it is still an also ran with me.
You make the statement that when Vista will be released there will be less drivers, what complete idiosy on your part, as I visit the hardware vendors sites for hardware that I own there are more and more Vista drivers available. It is the manufacturers not MS who decide on how much legacy hardware gets supported. But if you had ever tried Vista or even XP you would know that MS has Universal or generic drivers which do a very good job in taking care of approximately 80% of legacy equipment that manufacturers no longer support.
I am sure MS doesn't care one way or the other whether you update your hardware, they will even support your XP machine for another five years if that is your wish. But some of us due to the kind of computing we do, update our hardware on a fairly regular basis, and have long had the resources to run Vista, in fact most computers sold in the last year with slight modifications will run Vista with all the bells and whistles. I have tried Office 2007 Beta on a 486 running XP SP2 and it worked fine. Vista installed as well but due to hardware deficiencies ran in basic mode only which for a lot of people is probably all they want.
This article though was on the fact that MS was doing away with corporate liscencing which is where the major source of piracy happened. They are just saying that they are closing the door on this previous weakness, which is smart on their part, I hope they suceed and that others will follow suit. The high cost of software is caused in part by piracy and any measures to stop it are welcome, as I only use legal software.
As to the cost of Mac OS X, I wish someone actually look at what you get from Apple versus what you get from MS. MS charges one price upfront and all upgrades to that version are free. Apple charges $139 for their OS, and then again the next year with their upgrade, and then again the next year with the next upgrade, and so on. Like MS their OS has a five year life span, so at 139 X 5 you will find that you are paying more for your Mac OS than you are for Windows.
You make the statement that when Vista will be released there will be less drivers, what complete idiosy on your part, as I visit the hardware vendors sites for hardware that I own there are more and more Vista drivers available. It is the manufacturers not MS who decide on how much legacy hardware gets supported. But if you had ever tried Vista or even XP you would know that MS has Universal or generic drivers which do a very good job in taking care of approximately 80% of legacy equipment that manufacturers no longer support.
I am sure MS doesn't care one way or the other whether you update your hardware, they will even support your XP machine for another five years if that is your wish. But some of us due to the kind of computing we do, update our hardware on a fairly regular basis, and have long had the resources to run Vista, in fact most computers sold in the last year with slight modifications will run Vista with all the bells and whistles. I have tried Office 2007 Beta on a 486 running XP SP2 and it worked fine. Vista installed as well but due to hardware deficiencies ran in basic mode only which for a lot of people is probably all they want.
This article though was on the fact that MS was doing away with corporate liscencing which is where the major source of piracy happened. They are just saying that they are closing the door on this previous weakness, which is smart on their part, I hope they suceed and that others will follow suit. The high cost of software is caused in part by piracy and any measures to stop it are welcome, as I only use legal software.
As to the cost of Mac OS X, I wish someone actually look at what you get from Apple versus what you get from MS. MS charges one price upfront and all upgrades to that version are free. Apple charges $139 for their OS, and then again the next year with their upgrade, and then again the next year with the next upgrade, and so on. Like MS their OS has a five year life span, so at 139 X 5 you will find that you are paying more for your Mac OS than you are for Windows.
he is expressing a point, and quite a valid one from his perspective.
You have the right to disagree, and make other points, but to resort to name calling destroys any validity about what you were trying to say.
You have the right to disagree, and make other points, but to resort to name calling destroys any validity about what you were trying to say.
I'm not an Mac user, but I recently looked at one. The Mac software was offered locally at one fifth the price of MS XP Pro, and had many extras. To buy the MS software to equate what Mac were offering you need to purchase the following MS products
XP Pro, Office, Publisher, Media Centre, and it had a few extras not available as MS products. The total here would increase the cost of XP by ten fold.
You also missed out on the fact that Mac OSs are not upgrades, like MS Service Packs but new versions. Like going from Win 95 to Win 98 to Win 98SE. Mac upgrades for identified security issues are provided free, the same way that MS offer security patches - it's just that Mac doesn't have to offer so many.
The Mac development cycle is much shorter than MS, which is why the local Mac people offer big discounts if you buy the new one as soon as it's out. Checking the Mac OS prices, over the life of XP, buying and replacing the Mac OSs each time, still works out cheaper than the full MS XP route.
But, you don't have to buy the new Mac OS when it comes out. Like MS Window$ you can stay with the one that you originally bought.
I hvaen't yet seen anything to justify switching from XP to Vista, it offers nothing worthwhile to the average user, and is a degredation for the business user. The best Windows version for business was Win 98SE, and still is. No excess garbage to slow down and distract they staff from their work. But MS doesn't support it any more, not that they ever really supported it. Loss of MS support just means that they don't issue fixes for the faults in the original, any more.
But hey go to Linux, its's a lot cheaper again, and has free upgrades and updates and patches.
Going back to the article and moving away from corporate licences, so that a company would need individual licneces for each machine would mean huge increases in corporate tech support. Some will wear that out of ignorance, many will so 'enough' and move away from Windows, and then the MS sales will drop further.
What is interesting is the number of games manufacturers that are moving away from Windows based games to Linux based - they're fed up with MS charging for the code to make the game work with Windows, then MS issues a patch that crashes the game, and want them to pay for the code of the change to make the game work again. the same with some apps.
XP Pro, Office, Publisher, Media Centre, and it had a few extras not available as MS products. The total here would increase the cost of XP by ten fold.
You also missed out on the fact that Mac OSs are not upgrades, like MS Service Packs but new versions. Like going from Win 95 to Win 98 to Win 98SE. Mac upgrades for identified security issues are provided free, the same way that MS offer security patches - it's just that Mac doesn't have to offer so many.
The Mac development cycle is much shorter than MS, which is why the local Mac people offer big discounts if you buy the new one as soon as it's out. Checking the Mac OS prices, over the life of XP, buying and replacing the Mac OSs each time, still works out cheaper than the full MS XP route.
But, you don't have to buy the new Mac OS when it comes out. Like MS Window$ you can stay with the one that you originally bought.
I hvaen't yet seen anything to justify switching from XP to Vista, it offers nothing worthwhile to the average user, and is a degredation for the business user. The best Windows version for business was Win 98SE, and still is. No excess garbage to slow down and distract they staff from their work. But MS doesn't support it any more, not that they ever really supported it. Loss of MS support just means that they don't issue fixes for the faults in the original, any more.
But hey go to Linux, its's a lot cheaper again, and has free upgrades and updates and patches.
Going back to the article and moving away from corporate licences, so that a company would need individual licneces for each machine would mean huge increases in corporate tech support. Some will wear that out of ignorance, many will so 'enough' and move away from Windows, and then the MS sales will drop further.
What is interesting is the number of games manufacturers that are moving away from Windows based games to Linux based - they're fed up with MS charging for the code to make the game work with Windows, then MS issues a patch that crashes the game, and want them to pay for the code of the change to make the game work again. the same with some apps.
"But until it can read my hardware accurately and supply the correct drivers for that hardware, and perhaps make suggestions for software that will take advantage of its capabilities it is still an also ran with me."
This feature by MS's own admission only works with 32 bit XP and Vista, doesn't work on 64 bit Vista and isn't 100 % accurate with known issues.
Read for yourself:
"http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upgradeadvisor/default.mspx"
"http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upgradeadvisor/faq.mspx"
Besides, Ubuntu has repositories full of software that work with the OS and hardware, how much more of a suggestion do you want, select the package and it installs and works. It wouldn't be in the repository unless Ubuntu had developed a deb package for Ubuntu specifically.
As for fewer drivers, the legacy drivers, many will not be included in the initial release, this would mean there would be fewer drivers if they are excluded. Unless MS keeps adding new drivers to keep up with the newest hardware for Vista, mathematically for new drivers that's an increase. I'm not arguing that with you or making that point, but that would still be fewer, because the older legacy hardware is no longer being supported by MS. It only makes sense that as newer Vista drivers become available, they would be added or replace the older driver. How is any of this logic re: fewer drivers, my idiocy ?
No offense but your claim of running XP SP2 on a 486 has got to be stupidity on your part. First off a 486 isn't even a Pentium class system, Check XP's minimum requirements (233 Mhz). I doubt XP runs well on that system, much less Office 2007. Vista installing on a 486 ? You're making me laugh, Why would you even try it ?
"http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/upgrading/sysreqs.mspx"
Yes, and what about those instances where MS incorrectly identifies software as pirated or not genuine, I guess MS will just be sorry that day for any inconveniences ? I have a Dell @ work that was shipped with XP, I have to make several attempts to install critical updates for it, 1/2 of them fail on each attempt. This on a system I personnally had WGA certified and passed. Sometimes to download the kb******, the system has to reauthenticate. Unfortunately Ubuntu has had to update a few times this week, all updates downloaded and installed flawlessly.
Mac OS X, sorry, you're wrong about that too. Upgrades are every bit as free. iTunes, Quicktime, Mail, and so on upgrade thru a free download or automatic software updates. Hey just because MS has been sitting on XP since 2001, don't rip OS X and Linux for several overhauls. I've been using all 3 OS's in one form or another since the turn of the century. OS X and Linux have yet to crash on any of my systems, yet to be compromised for a denial of service attack. Yet upon numerous occasions, Windows has crashed, has experienced denial of service attacks. Yes, I stay on top of all updates, every 2nd Tuesday of each month. But back to your assertions, why would I buy OS X five times in five years ? I've had Jaguar, came with my Powerbook G4, Apple was so kind as to include a free set of Panther upgrade disks with the notebook. So I bought Tiger for $ 95 delivered a week after it was introduced for $ 139. Everyone one of these OS's has been update 8-9 times, The updates are free of charge and downloaded directly from Apple. I can get it as a single step updater dmg or a combined updater dmg for everything from the first to the current. Tiger is @ update 10.4.8, with Leopard around the corner. Apple hasn't published compatible hardware, I don't know if PPC will be supported. Oh well, I don't care, I'm converted to Linux anyway.
Anything more you want to cover ?
This feature by MS's own admission only works with 32 bit XP and Vista, doesn't work on 64 bit Vista and isn't 100 % accurate with known issues.
Read for yourself:
"http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upgradeadvisor/default.mspx"
"http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upgradeadvisor/faq.mspx"
Besides, Ubuntu has repositories full of software that work with the OS and hardware, how much more of a suggestion do you want, select the package and it installs and works. It wouldn't be in the repository unless Ubuntu had developed a deb package for Ubuntu specifically.
As for fewer drivers, the legacy drivers, many will not be included in the initial release, this would mean there would be fewer drivers if they are excluded. Unless MS keeps adding new drivers to keep up with the newest hardware for Vista, mathematically for new drivers that's an increase. I'm not arguing that with you or making that point, but that would still be fewer, because the older legacy hardware is no longer being supported by MS. It only makes sense that as newer Vista drivers become available, they would be added or replace the older driver. How is any of this logic re: fewer drivers, my idiocy ?
No offense but your claim of running XP SP2 on a 486 has got to be stupidity on your part. First off a 486 isn't even a Pentium class system, Check XP's minimum requirements (233 Mhz). I doubt XP runs well on that system, much less Office 2007. Vista installing on a 486 ? You're making me laugh, Why would you even try it ?
"http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/upgrading/sysreqs.mspx"
Yes, and what about those instances where MS incorrectly identifies software as pirated or not genuine, I guess MS will just be sorry that day for any inconveniences ? I have a Dell @ work that was shipped with XP, I have to make several attempts to install critical updates for it, 1/2 of them fail on each attempt. This on a system I personnally had WGA certified and passed. Sometimes to download the kb******, the system has to reauthenticate. Unfortunately Ubuntu has had to update a few times this week, all updates downloaded and installed flawlessly.
Mac OS X, sorry, you're wrong about that too. Upgrades are every bit as free. iTunes, Quicktime, Mail, and so on upgrade thru a free download or automatic software updates. Hey just because MS has been sitting on XP since 2001, don't rip OS X and Linux for several overhauls. I've been using all 3 OS's in one form or another since the turn of the century. OS X and Linux have yet to crash on any of my systems, yet to be compromised for a denial of service attack. Yet upon numerous occasions, Windows has crashed, has experienced denial of service attacks. Yes, I stay on top of all updates, every 2nd Tuesday of each month. But back to your assertions, why would I buy OS X five times in five years ? I've had Jaguar, came with my Powerbook G4, Apple was so kind as to include a free set of Panther upgrade disks with the notebook. So I bought Tiger for $ 95 delivered a week after it was introduced for $ 139. Everyone one of these OS's has been update 8-9 times, The updates are free of charge and downloaded directly from Apple. I can get it as a single step updater dmg or a combined updater dmg for everything from the first to the current. Tiger is @ update 10.4.8, with Leopard around the corner. Apple hasn't published compatible hardware, I don't know if PPC will be supported. Oh well, I don't care, I'm converted to Linux anyway.
Anything more you want to cover ?
"But until it can read my hardware accurately and supply the correct drivers for that hardware, and perhaps make suggestions for software that will take advantage of its capabilities it is still an also ran with me."
Back to this one, I'll give you a real world example for XP SP2. My boss has a usb Microsoft wireless keyboard and mouse. XP SP2 on a computer. To testbed Xandros Linux, we installed and dual booted it on the same box.
Prior to Linux going on the box:
Symptoms: The system is turned on, passes the bios identification process and gets to the Windows XP logo screen. At this point the Microsoft wireless mouse and keyboard start to function erratically, sometimes one or the other is recognized, sometimes even both, sometimes neither. As Windows continues to load, the wireless mouse and keyboard stop functioning completely, depending upon which was even recognized. To get the hardware to be rerecognized or recognized at all, each item has to be turned off and turned back on as it if were being plugged in again for the very first time and Windows XP SP2 has to find it and add it to the list on every bootup.
So right now you have to figure it's either a bios problem, defective hardware or a Microsoft Windows problem, right ? It's isolated as a Windows box only.
We install Xandros Linux, The bios obviously recognizes at least the keyboard, because LILO requires you to use the arrow kays to toggle between multiple selections on a dual boot system and this functions flawlessly. When Windows XP is selected, the same issues arise as if it were a MS Windows XP system. Reboot the system and simply go into Linux, quite the opposite happens, the Microsoft Wireless mouse and keyboard continue to function properly and flawlessly.
What does this mean ? Well, to me, it means the bios is doing it's job for recognizing keyboard, regardless of whether it's wireless or wired. That somehow Windows XP SP2 isn't loading the hardware drivers for Windows and this means the hardware isn't being recognized, even though the Microsoft latest and greatest available ones were/are installed. Yet, the Linux drivers are not only the proper ones, but aren't buggy.
Real world example # 2:
Again, my boss has a Dell notebook for work, it has Blue tooth. Using a Microsoft bluetooth wireless mouse, the mouse periodically lags and freezes up. Solution, he went and bought a package deal from Logitech, bluetooth wireless mouse and keyboard. Problems solved, Microsoft hardware has been removed from the equation here, obviosly XP SP2 Pro functions properly on the notebook, just not with the Microsoft branded hardware that he bought for quality and compatibility rational.
Real world example # 3:
I have a 15" lcd (X2GEN MG15VT), this monitor has yet to not boot into Windows XP SP2 or the test bed system that has Vista on it properly without being reinitialized (turned off and on again). It's not the video card, because this doesn't happen with a crt monitor (and over the years this system has had several brands of crt's ranging from Sony 15", a generic brand 17" and my current 19" IBM.). Sometimes the built-in audio doesn't work, sometimes the logo splash screens are so hopelessly aligned when Windows is the OS of choice. Sometimes the logo splash screen never is displayed. This same lcd, hooked up to my Ubuntu Linux box, works just fine.
Real world example 4: I have yet to install a MS OS, that didn't choke on drivers and hardware, that is when every device was connected on the very first clean install. You are better off building it and connecting a very basic/minimal system to get Windows on that box initially. This holds for Vista too, I had at least 5 hardware issues in device manager for the only Vista install I've ever done (You know, the little yellow question marks when hardware isn't working properly.). Previous versions of Windows were no better. That's been my choice not just inexperience, I've had others want me to install for beta purposes. But for windows, a minumumsystem needs to be installed first and then you start adding hardware component by component until everything works. Linux, the only piece of hardware that didn't function on an install that all hardware was hooked up was a wireless card. The computer I'm on now without going into the specifics, has a plethera of hardware items hooked up. Ubuntu went on this system without a single hickup with the drivers Ubuntu provides. I can't say the same for any version of Windows and Vista won't go on this computer, Ubuntu is set up and works flawlessly. Why screw up a solid working OS in Ubuntu to piddle around with Vista ?
I wouldn't call myself a Linux weenie, but that must make you a Microsoft Windows geek. So what is that supposed to mean to anyone ? Since I've backed up my posts with real world examples, please back your posts up with tangible Linux issues.
Back to this one, I'll give you a real world example for XP SP2. My boss has a usb Microsoft wireless keyboard and mouse. XP SP2 on a computer. To testbed Xandros Linux, we installed and dual booted it on the same box.
Prior to Linux going on the box:
Symptoms: The system is turned on, passes the bios identification process and gets to the Windows XP logo screen. At this point the Microsoft wireless mouse and keyboard start to function erratically, sometimes one or the other is recognized, sometimes even both, sometimes neither. As Windows continues to load, the wireless mouse and keyboard stop functioning completely, depending upon which was even recognized. To get the hardware to be rerecognized or recognized at all, each item has to be turned off and turned back on as it if were being plugged in again for the very first time and Windows XP SP2 has to find it and add it to the list on every bootup.
So right now you have to figure it's either a bios problem, defective hardware or a Microsoft Windows problem, right ? It's isolated as a Windows box only.
We install Xandros Linux, The bios obviously recognizes at least the keyboard, because LILO requires you to use the arrow kays to toggle between multiple selections on a dual boot system and this functions flawlessly. When Windows XP is selected, the same issues arise as if it were a MS Windows XP system. Reboot the system and simply go into Linux, quite the opposite happens, the Microsoft Wireless mouse and keyboard continue to function properly and flawlessly.
What does this mean ? Well, to me, it means the bios is doing it's job for recognizing keyboard, regardless of whether it's wireless or wired. That somehow Windows XP SP2 isn't loading the hardware drivers for Windows and this means the hardware isn't being recognized, even though the Microsoft latest and greatest available ones were/are installed. Yet, the Linux drivers are not only the proper ones, but aren't buggy.
Real world example # 2:
Again, my boss has a Dell notebook for work, it has Blue tooth. Using a Microsoft bluetooth wireless mouse, the mouse periodically lags and freezes up. Solution, he went and bought a package deal from Logitech, bluetooth wireless mouse and keyboard. Problems solved, Microsoft hardware has been removed from the equation here, obviosly XP SP2 Pro functions properly on the notebook, just not with the Microsoft branded hardware that he bought for quality and compatibility rational.
Real world example # 3:
I have a 15" lcd (X2GEN MG15VT), this monitor has yet to not boot into Windows XP SP2 or the test bed system that has Vista on it properly without being reinitialized (turned off and on again). It's not the video card, because this doesn't happen with a crt monitor (and over the years this system has had several brands of crt's ranging from Sony 15", a generic brand 17" and my current 19" IBM.). Sometimes the built-in audio doesn't work, sometimes the logo splash screens are so hopelessly aligned when Windows is the OS of choice. Sometimes the logo splash screen never is displayed. This same lcd, hooked up to my Ubuntu Linux box, works just fine.
Real world example 4: I have yet to install a MS OS, that didn't choke on drivers and hardware, that is when every device was connected on the very first clean install. You are better off building it and connecting a very basic/minimal system to get Windows on that box initially. This holds for Vista too, I had at least 5 hardware issues in device manager for the only Vista install I've ever done (You know, the little yellow question marks when hardware isn't working properly.). Previous versions of Windows were no better. That's been my choice not just inexperience, I've had others want me to install for beta purposes. But for windows, a minumumsystem needs to be installed first and then you start adding hardware component by component until everything works. Linux, the only piece of hardware that didn't function on an install that all hardware was hooked up was a wireless card. The computer I'm on now without going into the specifics, has a plethera of hardware items hooked up. Ubuntu went on this system without a single hickup with the drivers Ubuntu provides. I can't say the same for any version of Windows and Vista won't go on this computer, Ubuntu is set up and works flawlessly. Why screw up a solid working OS in Ubuntu to piddle around with Vista ?
I wouldn't call myself a Linux weenie, but that must make you a Microsoft Windows geek. So what is that supposed to mean to anyone ? Since I've backed up my posts with real world examples, please back your posts up with tangible Linux issues.
and the other attempts at piracy are proving M$s downfall. It is just some bean counters suggestion to revive failing profit margins.
They are not targetting pirates, they are alienating their (previously) loyal users.
Most are getting disgusted with M$s distrust of users, falsely labelling everyone as pirates, when their software to do so, is bug ridden.
The only way, as many an industry commentator has suggested, for M$ to combat so called piracy is to make the prices of SW realistic, and affordable, hence driving the real pirates out of business, as there will be no profit in it.
No wonder that so many are looking elsewhere, such as Linux, way ahead of any Vista launch.
They are not targetting pirates, they are alienating their (previously) loyal users.
Most are getting disgusted with M$s distrust of users, falsely labelling everyone as pirates, when their software to do so, is bug ridden.
The only way, as many an industry commentator has suggested, for M$ to combat so called piracy is to make the prices of SW realistic, and affordable, hence driving the real pirates out of business, as there will be no profit in it.
No wonder that so many are looking elsewhere, such as Linux, way ahead of any Vista launch.
They are constantly telling us their Certified Partners just how cheap their products actually are. I liked the response that I got when I asked how they could justify that when SUSE cost me under $150.00 and Windows 2003 was several thousand.
At first I was told that I was attempting to compare a Desktop Product with a Server Product but Honestly I don't think that 2003 is suitable as a Desktop Operating System. The people at MS must have rocks in their heads to think this.
I was actually comparing the server version of SUSE 10.1 to the Server version of Windows and I don't need to purchase any CAL's either to allow all my workstations to run correctly and access the server/s without a problem.
Personally I walked away from OEM or Retail copies of XP after I installed 6 SCSI HDD in my workstation and needed to reactivate the product and was accused of pirating a few hundred $ of MS junk when I was fitting several thousand $ of hardware. They really annoyed me no end with that one and I've removed every OEM copy and just used Volume License copies ever since. They have no activation issues like the OEM or Retail stuff has even if you have to change the product key every time that a Service Pack or similar so called Update becomes available.
Actually when MS starts to pay me for all the time that I waste keeping my systems running I may consider using their products again but now beside the 4 Windows computers that I have here and one of those has RC1 Vista on it everything else is either some form of Linux or BSD and I'm happily sticking to them as the OS just plain & simple works better and is far more secure.
I just love the looks that I get at MS Partners Meetings when I pull out my NB with Debian on it but I've ported IE6 and have both the Browser and Mail Client on the desktop even if they are very rarely used most of them think that I've got a really Cool Screen Saver and a highly personalised Desktop.
Col
At first I was told that I was attempting to compare a Desktop Product with a Server Product but Honestly I don't think that 2003 is suitable as a Desktop Operating System. The people at MS must have rocks in their heads to think this.
I was actually comparing the server version of SUSE 10.1 to the Server version of Windows and I don't need to purchase any CAL's either to allow all my workstations to run correctly and access the server/s without a problem.
Personally I walked away from OEM or Retail copies of XP after I installed 6 SCSI HDD in my workstation and needed to reactivate the product and was accused of pirating a few hundred $ of MS junk when I was fitting several thousand $ of hardware. They really annoyed me no end with that one and I've removed every OEM copy and just used Volume License copies ever since. They have no activation issues like the OEM or Retail stuff has even if you have to change the product key every time that a Service Pack or similar so called Update becomes available.
Actually when MS starts to pay me for all the time that I waste keeping my systems running I may consider using their products again but now beside the 4 Windows computers that I have here and one of those has RC1 Vista on it everything else is either some form of Linux or BSD and I'm happily sticking to them as the OS just plain & simple works better and is far more secure.
I just love the looks that I get at MS Partners Meetings when I pull out my NB with Debian on it but I've ported IE6 and have both the Browser and Mail Client on the desktop even if they are very rarely used most of them think that I've got a really Cool Screen Saver and a highly personalised Desktop.
Col
Going to meetings and have not bought a action pack this time. MS thinks that having hundreds of venders will help sales and bring up profits.
But the partners still make too little to make it worth their time.
But the partners still make too little to make it worth their time.
Mainly because I've seen them abused and several partners installing the Volume License Software in them on every computer that they sell.
It's a great way to recover the cost of the Action Pack several times over and still be providing what is essentially Legal MS Product. Though it makes life harder for the rest of us who work honestly and don't do things like that.
Generally speaking I only go to their Road Shows when there is something interesting occurring like come November 8 this year they are releasing Vista so that will be another full day spent at the Mighty MS Meeting watching the faces of the converted admire the great new OS and other offerings from MS. I'll try very hard not to be sick.
But at these meetings they always bring up the senior tech who I waylay and get some good info from so from that point of view it's worth the day if I don't see anything else, which they generally have something interesting there to look at and get all the latest new offerings from the VAR's.
At the last one some crowd had a 42 inch Plasma TV hooked up to a copy of Media Centre and where demonstrating just how great it was, at lunch time when we all walked out some one had stoled the Plasma display which was good for a laugh as it was right beside the MS log in section and must have been noticed.
Col
It's a great way to recover the cost of the Action Pack several times over and still be providing what is essentially Legal MS Product. Though it makes life harder for the rest of us who work honestly and don't do things like that.
Generally speaking I only go to their Road Shows when there is something interesting occurring like come November 8 this year they are releasing Vista so that will be another full day spent at the Mighty MS Meeting watching the faces of the converted admire the great new OS and other offerings from MS. I'll try very hard not to be sick.
But at these meetings they always bring up the senior tech who I waylay and get some good info from so from that point of view it's worth the day if I don't see anything else, which they generally have something interesting there to look at and get all the latest new offerings from the VAR's.
At the last one some crowd had a 42 inch Plasma TV hooked up to a copy of Media Centre and where demonstrating just how great it was, at lunch time when we all walked out some one had stoled the Plasma display which was good for a laugh as it was right beside the MS log in section and must have been noticed.
Col
It seems to me that Microsoft has adopted the attitude that all of its customers are criminals and should be treated as such. Personally, I don't like it and I think this attitude is further fueling the open source movement. And with Apple's systems now running Intel chips there is another competitor to Microsoft. I think they are treading on thin ice when they treat their customers this way.
Activation and reactivation are tremendous time wasters in a business environment. Replace too many components, a hard drive, or a faulty motherboard and be prepared for Microsoft to assume you're trying to cheat them. Then be prepared to waste an excessive amount of time on the phone proving to them that you're not cheating. Or, and I think it's what Microsoft wants you to do, buy another copy of the software.
There will always be a certain percentage of pirated copies, but I question how many of these pirates are either (A) stopped by Microsoft (certainly not the determined ones), or (B) wouldn't have purchased the software anyway were a pirated copy not available.
Activation and reactivation are tremendous time wasters in a business environment. Replace too many components, a hard drive, or a faulty motherboard and be prepared for Microsoft to assume you're trying to cheat them. Then be prepared to waste an excessive amount of time on the phone proving to them that you're not cheating. Or, and I think it's what Microsoft wants you to do, buy another copy of the software.
There will always be a certain percentage of pirated copies, but I question how many of these pirates are either (A) stopped by Microsoft (certainly not the determined ones), or (B) wouldn't have purchased the software anyway were a pirated copy not available.
What annoys the most about XP and Windows 2003 is that you can't simply transfer the O/S to new hardware without needing to reactivate the product or reinstall it. I had this nasty experience when I upgraded my old Pentium 3 motherboard and RAM to a Pentium 4 with newer RAM. Windows XP bluescreened on every boot attempt, requiring me to reinstall the product completely. Even an in-place repair wouldn't do the trick and required a fresh O/S reinstall. And then there's that annooying process of activation again, which after numerous attempts, will lock you out from doing it over the internet. You will have to call the MS support line and talk to a technician in hopes you can convince him/her that you own a legitimate copy of Windows and are simply upgrading the hardware. If MS is so concerned about piracy, they should ship their products with USB dongles, like what many other software publishers are doing to thwart piracy. Without the dongle, the software won't function. No product activation, no telephone calls, simply a dongle in the USB port is all you need. If you upgrade your hardware, Windows will still work so long as the dongle is present. But I guess MS wants to keep track of all activated versions of Windows because they are too anal about piracy and think that everyone who owns a copy of their product is a pirate. Until they change their mentality, the general public will have to deal with their activation stupidity.
I can see this happening to many people. Or, getting too many SW apps that need a dongle, can you imagine having 300 USB hubs filled up with Dongles. The an error comes up stating that a USB port needs more power!!!
which one???
or keeping a box of dongles around and sifting through them for the proper ones to be plugged in at any given time.
what a mess.
which one???
or keeping a box of dongles around and sifting through them for the proper ones to be plugged in at any given time.
what a mess.
They can always revert back to the old serial number method like in Windows 2000
the games industry has found the "Please insert original disc to open game" still works very well. If the disc gets damaged, you can ship the old one back and they ship you a new one, usually for free.
And charge for service they would have a constant ongoing stream of incoming revenue without any possible Piracy Problems.
They no doubt would be making far more money as well. Just Imagine it every time you install a Patch and it breaks something you call MS and fork over your credit card number get charged for the obligatory 15 minutes only to be told in the first 30 seconds that it's not a MS problem ring the supplier of the software. Even if the software is MS they could just bounce you to the correct department so you have what you think of as an Windows Problem only to get charged for 15 minutes to be told that it's actually a problem with Office or whatever and you get charged for the 3.5 hours while they talk you through the fix procedures to get the application working again. MS could even deliberately engineer patches to break applications so they would get more income.
In other words do a Henry Ford you can have any of my cars free provided that you come to me for parts & service. After all that's where the real money is not in the original one off sale but in the recurring service calls which can be quickly fixed but still have a minimum service charge. You pay for the 15 minutes even though MS only takes 5 seconds to give you the answer and they charge you for the time on the phone while you are waiting to talk to a tech. Easy money and a massive profit that not even MS can dream of really.
Col
They no doubt would be making far more money as well. Just Imagine it every time you install a Patch and it breaks something you call MS and fork over your credit card number get charged for the obligatory 15 minutes only to be told in the first 30 seconds that it's not a MS problem ring the supplier of the software. Even if the software is MS they could just bounce you to the correct department so you have what you think of as an Windows Problem only to get charged for 15 minutes to be told that it's actually a problem with Office or whatever and you get charged for the 3.5 hours while they talk you through the fix procedures to get the application working again. MS could even deliberately engineer patches to break applications so they would get more income.
In other words do a Henry Ford you can have any of my cars free provided that you come to me for parts & service. After all that's where the real money is not in the original one off sale but in the recurring service calls which can be quickly fixed but still have a minimum service charge. You pay for the 15 minutes even though MS only takes 5 seconds to give you the answer and they charge you for the time on the phone while you are waiting to talk to a tech. Easy money and a massive profit that not even MS can dream of really.
Col
dongle that allows the flow through of data as well. The dongles goes on the port, the printer behind it. With so few printers requiring this now, it would be a simple matter to have several piggybacked. I know of one CAD designer who had four attached before his printer, until he bought a USB printer. They all worked fine, as did the old printer, he got one with better quality colour.
With so many machines coming with wireless and BlueTooth built in, you could always have the dongles use low range variants of those technologies.
With so many machines coming with wireless and BlueTooth built in, you could always have the dongles use low range variants of those technologies.
Sorry but if I was required to have a USB dongle or a paralle dongle or anything.. umm no.
1. A good number of newer computers have no legacy support, all USB, kinda like Mac.
2. I run a laptop as my primaray machine. Dongles would be fine and dandy on a machine you'll move maybe once a month, but I don't want to have to unplug all thos dongles and carry them around with me..
1. A good number of newer computers have no legacy support, all USB, kinda like Mac.
2. I run a laptop as my primaray machine. Dongles would be fine and dandy on a machine you'll move maybe once a month, but I don't want to have to unplug all thos dongles and carry them around with me..
in through the back door, you'll only need to have one. Then what will happen is that you register with Wintel Secure Computing Centre, get you individual dongle that identifies you. You then get copies of what ever software you want, probably via Internet download, go to the WSCC and register your copy, paying for and being issued with a licence. This will be registered against your WSCC account, and any computer you plug your dongle into will automatically check your registered applications with the WSCC, and allow you access to the ones that it has installed and you're licenced for. No licence OK from the WSCC and you can't use it.
New systems from HP, Dell, etc will come with all the apps affilliated with the WSCC already installed, for free. You just pay your annual licence fees for access to WSCC and you various apps, and your dongle continues to work.
Please print and store this statement, and refer to it in 10 years time, and you can then say "Sheet, the little booger was right."
New systems from HP, Dell, etc will come with all the apps affilliated with the WSCC already installed, for free. You just pay your annual licence fees for access to WSCC and you various apps, and your dongle continues to work.
Please print and store this statement, and refer to it in 10 years time, and you can then say "Sheet, the little booger was right."
Bean counters at M$ suggested this idea as a way of increasing profit margins.
But it is costing M$ far more to implement that it gains, and alienating normal customers.
Yes, they have well and truly shot themselves in the foot with WGA.
Linking it to Vista? Renaming it?
Sheeeesh, that same bean counter hasn't been fired yet.
But it is costing M$ far more to implement that it gains, and alienating normal customers.
Yes, they have well and truly shot themselves in the foot with WGA.
Linking it to Vista? Renaming it?
Sheeeesh, that same bean counter hasn't been fired yet.
but with him moving aside, the next version of Windows may be sensible, doubtful, but possible.
herm i agree one hundred percent ms has gone to far with their piracy movement number one piracy occured on the high seas and usually involved murder rape and the burning of ships so some poor soul who lost his motherboard or hard drive is not a pirate or even close to a pirate all the poor soul wanted to do is reinstall an os that he legally paid for i am sick of ms and their ranting and insane ramblings. i guess the bottom line is bill gates has been made a poor man because the people have pirated his products.Linux is really a good os i downloaded it in a spare pent 4 computer i have here and it runs perfect still learning how to operate it but enjoying every min of it .THE new sign in front of my computer repair shop now reads TRY LINUX
Microsoft is to security / piracy as politicians are to honesty, complete strangers that will never meet.
until microsoft changes their default security policy in the design of their products, there is not one microsoft product that can honestly be said to be designed for professional use, they are all designed for home use with the critical security violations caused by their flawed default allow security model.
until microsoft changes their default security policy in the design of their products, there is not one microsoft product that can honestly be said to be designed for professional use, they are all designed for home use with the critical security violations caused by their flawed default allow security model.
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