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    <title><![CDATA[Discussion on Whatever happened to entry-level as I remembered it? ]]></title>
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392]]></link>
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    <lastBuildDate>2013-05-22T11:38:02-07:00</lastBuildDate>
             

    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Try being fifty-ish...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-2497325]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[...been in the field for years and finding without realizing it, you've become too specialized. Now you're about to be outsourced... on the hoof and oh btw, what happened to IT when you weren't looking? It went off in all different directions and now it's catch-up time.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-2497325]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[KarenML]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 18:54:25 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[same prob different side]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-2140640]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Hi,I know exactly how you feel. But instead of going for a B.S. Degree, I took IT Academy courses and started getting certs. I've got MCP,MCDST, MCSA, and just got MCSE a few days ago. I've been doing tech support on the side for 3 years with a web design company -whenever they need something. I've been sending out resumes for about 3 months, ever since I got MCSA. I've had a couple phone calls but not a single offer yet. But, I'm feeling a lot less discouraged after reading some of the advice in here though. Good luck. BTW I am also 42.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-2140640]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[paulmeadows9@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 02:06:31 -0800</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[did you get a job?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1928838]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I was wondering how your life was going? Did you get a job or what? I tried to email you but the link wasnt working. Good luck. Vince]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1928838]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[wallacevincentrose@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:50:25 -0800</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Not alone]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1869972]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I am glad to hear I am not the only one experiencing this.  I am in a similar boat.  I am 36 with a family and just graduated with a bachelor's in IT.  I was exposed to many languages and technologies, but didn't specialize in any one thing.  The four-year degree and my passion shows I am willing to start most anywhere, but it is difficult to express that in an interview without sounding desperate.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1869972]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[dvdbglw]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:49:49 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Ever think of moving to Canada, Eh?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1852437]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Read all of the posts on the threads, and from what I can tell things are better in Canada, especially oil rich Alberta, where I live.  I came across the following article about the government of Canada saying there is a extreme worker shortage all over the country, in both trades and tech jobs, but again, especially in oil rich Alberta.http://start.shaw.ca/start/enca/news/NationalNewsArticle.htm?&amp;src=n092339A.xmlA little about Canada:Our politicians are inept criminals who couldn't manage their own check books, and even when caught frauding the people out of millions, they get a slap on the wrist.Our taxes are much higher, but we have alot of social programs free to everybody.Our winters are cold, but it's not like that 12 months out of the year, and we don't have hurricanes.From what I can tell the standard of living on the whole is better/higher than in the US.Like I mentioned, we value our social safety net/social programs, which I think are fairly good and important.Like the article says, we're looking for qualified immigrants.I've lived in Canada all my life, and though it's not perfect, I don't think I'd want to live anywhere else.Just my 2 cents worth.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1852437]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[monte-carlo@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:00:02 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Entry Level Pay]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1852267]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Entry level jobs are out there. The pay is entry level, however, the expectation of experience is much more than entry level. Whether your looking for an IT or engineer position, more is expected from you.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1852267]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[methos7997]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:31:48 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Suggestion]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1851664]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[When seeking an entry level position, it is good practice to research the company prior to the interview process. Understanding the expected roles and responsibiltites on a detailed level is also important. Building a portfolio of example websites is another method of generating exposure and a demonstration vehicle for your skills. While age is certainly a factor and a important part of some employers selection criteria, be positive, age can work in your favor as well. I am 42 and in my second year of law school, this is my first career change and certianly not the last.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1851664]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[ron.est@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:29:58 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Doing some person-to-person research can help]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1850298]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[When I got laid off from a full-time software development position in 2001, the company offered a free two-day outplacement seminar to us, to help us find new work. It wasn't a job fair, but a presentation by a career counselor talking about how to network, how to sell your best qualities, and how to interview.A lot of the advice turned out to be useless to me, but one piece of advice helped me out some: doing &quot;research&quot;. The counselor suggested that one way to get contacts is to do &quot;research&quot; in your industry. The reason I put quotes around it, is she suggested using it as a way for a manager at a company to get to know you a little bit, and vice-versa, and possibly develop an &quot;inside&quot; contact, someone you could buzz every now and again to see if they have any new openings, which was supposed to be your true goal, not so much the &quot;research&quot;.I was never good at schmoozing, which is basically what this technique requires, best I can tell. However, I was curious what was going on out there. I decided to use my curiousity as an incentive to go ahead and do this.I researched a few companies in my area, and found one I was really interested in. All I did was bring up their website, and take a look at what they had on it. I called them up and asked to speak to their hiring manager. They connected me to her. I gave her my pitch, that I was a developer in the area and was doing research on the IT field, and would she be interested in joining me for lunch, where I could ask her some questions. She suggested I talk with someone else there for that, one of the founding partners of the company. I contacted him, and gave him the same pitch. To my surprise, without hesitation he said yes. We arranged to meet for lunch at a resteraunt close to him.It turned out he was kind of interested in talking to a local since he had moved here just a week before, and was unfamiliar with the area. So of course I offered to answer any questions he had.We ordered lunch, we had a little smalltalk, and then I asked him my questions, stuff I was genuinely curious about. I did learn some things.At the job I had been laid off from I was primarily working on MFC applications for the Windows platform. I really liked it and wanted to continue doing it. I had heard a lot about web application technologies and turned up my nose at it. It seemed like a Rube Goldberg contraption to me. The thing was I had heard about .Net, dabbled some in it, and I was very interested in working with it further. I had only gotten into WinForms though. The guy I met with suggested I give ASP.Net a chance, the web part of .Net. He said, &quot;It's about as easy as developing a VB 6 application.&quot; That was news to me, and it encouraged me to try something I would've otherwise passed up. Shortly thereafter I downloaded Web Matrix and did a couple projects in it. I was glad I did, because about 1-1/2 years later it turned out learning this was my ticket to finding a job I enjoy. It's the job I have today. I didn't get a job at this guy's company, but the information he gave me helped with my career.That was a positive networking experience. I had a sort of negative one as well. I tried using the same technique at another company, shortly after I met with the first guy. It didn't go so well. I got ahold of the hiring manager for a division of a company that sounded interesting. I give him my pitch about my research, and he sounded suspicious. I tried to assuage those suspicions, but the guy refused to go any further with our dialog. Bummer.Anyway, I'm doing okay now.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1850298]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Miller]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:59:29 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[That's insane]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1850297]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I don't work in the hardware/admin field, but that particular place is shooting for the moon, and they're not doing it realistically. I would be surprised if they found anyone for that job, especially at $9/hr. A masters degree, with all of the technologies and certs demands more than that.You might be able to pay a programmer with a bachelors degree right out of college that much per hour ($9/hr is the pay rate I started at 11 years ago), but if you shot for the moon like that and were only offering that rate, I'd be real surprised if you found anyone. I don't care if they've been out of the job market for two years. To be that desparate and succumb to that kind of insult just kills one's soul.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1850297]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Miller]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:27:23 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Tried this]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1850201]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I found it helped me be able to speak to some experience during an interview. I became familiar with the terminology of the technology (in my case, .Net as well), and how it basically worked. However, every time, the interview was filled with Q&amp;A, and after that the interviewer needed to move on to the next candidate. I never got the opportunity to demonstrate what I had created.Nevertheless, I got a job working on contract for a small IT consulting/outsourcing company about a year ago. They considered my background to be valuable, and were willing to have me do on-the-job training to become more skilled in .Net, SQL Server, and IIS. Receiving payment for my work has been a bit frustrating. I eventually get paid, but it hasn't been like the contract or full-time work I used to do several years ago. Sometimes I have to wait some months before getting paid for work I got done previously (having savings is essential for this, or a credit card), but I have been gaining valuable experience on the technical side of things. It's definitely something I can put on my resume.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1850201]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Miller]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:24:26 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[This goes for churches, synagogs, etc. too!]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1849951]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I earned my current IT position &quot;seat-of-the-pants&quot; style like Mr. Moran was referring to and he is right, it takes a looooooong time. For me, nearly 20 years. However, a co-worker of mine is the IT Admin for a local church. He's literally a &quot;god-send&quot; to them and talk about experience! And they pay! Probably not enough to make a living, but enough that the experience he gains supporting their entire network, and the stippend he earns, makes it well worth his while.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1849951]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[MC68000]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:55:46 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Never give up]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1849561]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[After finishing college at the age of 51 I have finally got a job aged 55. I found it extremely difficult to make the interviewers understand my position and 'life experiences' in management other than IT and my 'sea change' in careers. But after 93 interviews I finally made the grade in my interviewers eyes and landed the type of job I was after. I manage the network for 23 hospitals which is critical in modern day surgeries and information supply to health professionals.I am enjoying my new, much more rewarding career, along with the knowledge that my retirement is much more secure.AussieIT]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1849561]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[AussieIT]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:09:37 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Turn the &quot;tables&quot;]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1849376]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[So turn the tables on the buggers: invest smartly, make your money, and get the flock back out. Bulls and Bears both make money so the particular state of the economy is irrelevant. That's how the bad guys do it, and we're way smarter than they.(Speaking of tables, let me know when you get your coffee shop going. I'd love to stop by. Uptown? Maxtown? Columbus?)]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1849376]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[crawk]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:01:55 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Some spouses are not always understanding]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1849244]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I have that problem from time to time with my husband.  He means well, but doesn't always understand the IT process and problems that come up with it.  I didn't start out with much pay and was hourly and worked about 30 hours a week.  Once you get the experience in, you can get the higher paying positions.  It depends upon what you want to go for.  There are also several sides to IT - software, hardware, security, infrastructure, db-oriented positions, etc.It is also true that smaller companies often can pay a higher salary than larger companies with many on the payroll.   I haven't looked back myself.  The technology is constantly changing as new gadgets come out and people become more mobile. You need to be on the computer looking, gaining knowledge, keeping all options open.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1849244]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[cake@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:41:35 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Helpdesk positions]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1849200]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I used to work in Customer Service for Anthem and went back to get my Associates Degree in CS. I had several people tell me when I first started looking that they liked my personality and thought I was a real go-getter but still didn't have enough experience.  I went back to my Advisor and spoke to her about my experience and they actually had a work study program.  I got my foot in the door at a local business as a 2nd level support person where I got some great experience in both hardware and software and found I had a nack for working with software. That ended and after about 18 months - still just shy of the 2 years most places want you to have when applying for an IT job.   It was still hard to land my first job with a company where I could really dig in to the job and get benefits, vacation, etc.What I recommend is this -1.  See if your institution has a placement program.  Many times they have a career office where they can work with local businesses that are looking for college students for internships, and other entry-level positions.  2.  I agree with Tony's comments on using your past experience to put a spin on what you can offer to a company.  I used my customer service experience to help land my helpdesk job.  One of the things that I love about IT is that you don't always have to have the answers right away.  As long as you can find an answer or give an action plan to resolve the issue, this is what they are looking for.  3.  Don't be afraid to network.  Look in your area for a Windows User Group and attend their meetings and functions.  Create business cards and pass them out.  It is a great way to get a feel for different companies and people will remember you from the event.4.  When applying for a position, research the company and try to cater your responses to how you can be an asset to the company for what they are in business for.  Most companies have a website - look them over, use a demo of their software if they have it available on line(that is a plus too and they know you mean business).Hope this helps too!  Good Luck and keep your chin up!  It can take awhile to land that first job, but once you do, the sky is the limit.I had a rough start myself and now have been working in the industry for 7+ years now.  Keep your perseverance, it will pay off.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1849200]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[cake@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:45:46 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Excellent Reply]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1848697]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Dear Sir;Just had to take a minute to state that I couldn't agree with you more. This is the kind of article that should also be sent out to some of the people hiring these days. Might give them a better idea of what to look for and what questions to ask. Very astute of you to notice this lack on both sides of the issue.But, I digress. My intent was only to tell you that I thought your article excellent well done, succinct and hit the nail right on the head. RegardsAaron A Baker]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1848697]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Aaron A Baker]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2005 22:47:56 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Management with NO REAL EXPERIENCE]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1848719]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[The problem my friend is not your experience level for you are entry-level.  The problem is that your interviewers really either:a. Want to pay a lower salary that they should to obtain a qualified candidate, orb. They simply do not have the experience to know the difference between entry-level and experienced.They probably just lost someone who was more knowledeable than they guessed and are now finding out what it costs to get a replacement.The truth is that we as a community probably need a union of some sort to help &quot;management&quot; learn the difference.  They think they can lose one person and then just go to the gumball machine and another knowledgeable person will just pop out.If expereinced people would be willing to hold out for say 2-3 months vs. 2-3 weeks, then management would be forced to pay say $65.00 per hour from the contracting company for that $38,000.00 exployee they just let walk out the door who had 3+ years of experience in the company.Sounds personal, well it is.  I've just watched a company let two young talented, bright people go and a simple 5% raise could have made the difference.  I firmly believe the company should pay for a manager's inability to keep skilled people on the job.  The company has nothing to gain by constant re-hiring.  Trying to advertise for an entry-level position when the reality is they probably just let an experienced person go is really depressing, but it is the norm.  Sad but true.You cannot expect management to say &quot;I screwed up and I really don't know how to manage my people and keep them happy so that the business would actually run better and thereby be subject to less downtime and higher stakeholder satisfaction, and ultimately higher profits&quot;.  No that is not how Corporate America works.  No today.Good Luck!]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1848719]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[darbyweaver@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:24:09 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Your point is right on DC Guy]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1848157]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[After 30 years in the business, and 16 at the last place of employment, I found myself forced to find a job when my position was eliminated as part of cost-cutting measures.  I can't tell you how many positions I applied for and didn't get despite having worked in every area of IT.  I eventually faced the reality that age discrimination was alive and well, and that it wasn't going to be easy for a 47 year old to land a position.  Most of the hiring managers were 15 years my junior on average.My IBM CE had been laid off and became a &quot;head hunter&quot; to keep food on the family table, so I worked with him in my search.In the end, I landed a position in County government.  The IT department was being run under contract after all management had been fired (new meaning to the term &quot;mis-management&quot;).  They recognized that I had a lot of skills and experience that could be utilized here and hired me.  I've been here for 9 years and really enjoy it.To those looking to get in the door these days I would suggest looking for a place where you could work as an intern to gain skills and experience.  We had an intern here who had been an iron worker.  Due to an occupational injury, he needed to find another line of work.  He interned here for 6-9 months and was eventually hired.  Today he is, in my opinion, one of the very best desktop support /LAN Admin. guys we have... and he is &quot;no spring chicken&quot; as they say.  Don't get dis-heartened... keep looking and try internship if you can. It will all turn out OK, believe me.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1848157]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[BlueKnight]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:54:43 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[A few thoughts....]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1847746]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Don't give up BrainXpansion. I graduated in May 2004 at the age of 43 from a Tech College. I was fortunate I already had my foot in the door though because I was working for a so-called IT department processing mainframe data. I finally landed an IT job over a year later even though I had to move 350 miles to take the job. A couple of things that will make you a more desirable:Certifications - Start with a basic cert like A+. I had a few prospective employers that called me in for an interview just because of that little cert. You can buy a book and study on your own. If you learned anything in college then you'll notice the info is very familiar. The cert test is also tax deductible.Resume writing - Find a local college with a job placement office and have them look over your resume. Write a few different versions and send them to employers depending on what they're looking for. BUT, keep them straight so you don't stick your foot in your mouth. Be creative in your writing also. Don't lie but embellish instead.Keep up with technology. Don't fall behind what's new and exciting. Although most companies don't seem to keep up with technology it doesn't mean you have to. Keep your head up. Some employers are looking for IT people with real world life experience. Us old IT guys do belong in the business. Good luck.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1847746]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[conunigma@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:01:01 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Path Outta IT]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1847644]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I had passed some email back and forth with the guy in the drycleaning business.My plan is a coffee shop.The reason why the economy is the US in general and IT in particular sucks so bad is that corporate CEOs haven't had a new idea since they gutted the steel industry back a few decades ago.1. Shitcan the American worker at all cost.  Quality, cost, security be damned .. the American worker can NOT share in wealth creation with a decent paycheck.2. Do so in a manner that makes him believe that he truly is the scum you think he is.  Watching wave after wave of blank faced depressed out-of-work workers must give these types narcotic gratification.  Especially so if they are war-era veterans.3. The only stratigic planning that matters is the earnings guidance you give the analysts next Friday.4. The only metric that matters is IBITDA (Income Before I Trick Dumb Auditors).I don't see this changing much before the economy and tha social infrastructure is laid waste by an economic downturn that makes the great depression look like the golden age.See you at the coffee shop.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/6-180392-1847644]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Too Old For IT]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:27:36 -0700</pubDate>
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