Discussion on:

What is your best excuse for skipping work?

Or when it favours you.

It might suprise you to know that I worked retail too, and like you I was the top sales guy in the store. I did get some extra attention from management, but it was to push me to do my best, and at the end of the day they promoted me.

If you are in a bad situation, leave. But do it the right way - look for a job, get an offer, give your notice. I've been there done that.

How would you feel if one of your co-workers quit and left you holding the bag, needing to work an extra 10-20 hours a week till they replaced you?

It is a small world out there. Once upon a time I started a new job and discovered a manager who was not too competant. I didn't mean to get anyone fired, but I discovered things that showed his lack of competence, and my role at this place made it important that I disclose them.

Few years later, I am laid off, looking for work. Dream job comes up, 5 minute drive from my house.

I walk into the interview, and the interviewer asks me if I know manager that I got fired. Though I think I came across great in that interview, I didn't get the job, nor would they return my calls. Its a small world out there, and being selfish in the short run may come back to haunt you. Be ethic in all things and hopefully it will help. But even if it doesn't you will have the satisfaction of knowing you were the a$$ your boss was.

James

"I've got real bad diarrhea."

No boss wants to risk having you experience anal leakage in the middle of their office. :^O

I often wander around the workplace with a pen and a piece of paper in hand doing nothing whatsoever. when asked why i am not working I simply reply, " because I did it right the first time". no more questions asked.

wish I could do that.

I write software. And unless you're a real pain to your users, you never do it right because they always want to change something or add something to it.

Oh well...luckily, I got the automation thing done right for one department the first time...and they love it.

Now...I have to write the technical docs. Hahah.

listing clearly the features requested keeps "feature bloat" from the users changing their minds from being a short-coming on your part.

NEVER confuse you not doing it "right" with them changing their minds! Don't let THEM get confused about that point either.

I'm senior programmer...not the supervisor/manager/director.

I can't say what I or other employees will do. My position is to give guidance and insight and write software according to "customer" designation.

It is my supervisor's job to manage the employees and decide what is allowed to be mandated of his employees in completing projects.

My boss is pretty good about keeping too many changes out. But, he's been convinced on occassion to allow mods...and...he's been trumped by the Director to have it done by me.

So...I'm in a no-win situation til I come on as the boss here...and introduce the "project sign-off".

That is the greatest thing ever. Put that puppy in the front of a design document...and when everyone signs off that the design meets their requirements, it takes an act of God to get a change put in...so long as not working it in doesn't involve causing harm or the company downfall that is...hehehe :^O

Oh well...hey...it ain't easy being...the top computer geek in the house :^O

I'm senior programmer...and MSSQL DBA...and in-house Windows Server admin...and document writer...and systems analyst...and chief software architect for Windows applications...and project manager over my projects.

Christ...I should be making 6 figures.

Wasn't saying you wouldn't have to make the changes.

Only said to make it clear that there is a big difference between it not being right, and the user changing their mind.

Just clearly state, here is the function that was requested. If the incorrect funtion was requested or additional functions are needed we will make the changes from the original request.

Point. They asked for something. You gave them that something. Make it clear that adding new features is asking for something new, that does not invalidate the first delivery based on them changing their minds.

THEY changed the design, not YOU not making it "right".

But you gotta understand...

I discuss things with them...and they agree to them...verbally...it's how they want it.

When I come back later...there will be something else they want...but...the way they phrase it is "Well...that's not exactly what I want."

I understand they are making the change...but...from hearing them...you'd never think that was the case.

6 figures... not likely mate.. unless your getting paid in Roupees!!

Shame, know what you mean though.

The raises and bonuses were good too. After all, you never messed up, right?

If you did not understand the first. I added a better discription and reasion for calling in to work.

You lied to your employer about why you didn't come to work. I would still fire you.

And by being away from work, you didn't actually resolve your problem did you? I am sure the redhead was still there when you came back.

Sit down with the redhead over coffee. Tell her thanks for all the attention but people are starting to talk. Tell her about places you and your wife go together - drop the huge hint that you are your wife are very happy. She will get the message.

James

considering how much employers lie to or mislead their employees nowadays.

And...can you truthfully say that you've never lied to or misled any of your employers in the entirety of your work history, JamesRL?

That's why I stick with the "I got real bad diarrhea." story when I need a "mental health" day.

Like I said...no boss wants anal leakage happening in the office.

One of the acid tests is - what if everybody did it, would it be fair?

If everyone took 3 weeks off and called in sick(in addition to vacation)....then we might as well close down the company.

Actually in my company you need a doctors note after 3 days, so this wouldn't happen unless you forged a doctors note.

I've never lied. I have called in sick when I was marginally sick and just wanted to rest so I could get ahead of it - a preventive day if you will.

And I don't lie to my employers in general. Its not healthy. I find its better to get it out and take your lumps than to hide things or lie about things, and have it discovered later.

I haven't always volunteered every bit of information.

You know one sick day, if you don't repeat it, I will over look. But the original poster said three weeks - thats just not right.

James

for any employee to take sick leave at anytime?

Sure, so long as they had sick leave to use...sure it is...that's what sick leave is for.

Plus, a company can't prove someone isn't sick or isn't feeling pain...that is a doctor's determination

Where I work, it's 2 days...then you need a note...this is where the doctor helps the corp. Of course, I know a bunch of docs I can get to write me a note. So, that's not much help to the corp.

Three weeks is a lot, I admit...no doubt about that.

However in the case of the chick flashing skin and essentially harassing the guy and making unwanted advances...I'd think that more of an issue. She is the root cause of the problem that has arisen.

Since he has to deal with constant "attention" from her and there is nothing a corporation can do about an employee being friendly to another one...even if it is constant and continuous. Friendliness can't be made illegal.

I see where you're coming from...but to condemn the guy because he's being harassed and getting unwanted attention that corporate policy can't possibly stop...I'd rather try to help any employee...and quite probably, other employees who might have been, are being, and could be in the future, harassed by the same individual.

Plus...you also have to consider...how approachable was his boss with this? Some bosses, even with current laws, would try and blow something like that away and say "she was just being friendly" or something.

Of course as soon as I'd heard that they'd been in a wreck and were gonna be out 3 weeks...I'd make a visit to their house and take them something to eat or check up on them.

If I caught em in the backyard playin with Fido...it would be time to have a "Come To Jesus" meeting with them. That's for sure.

But, I'd get their side of it first...before I considered termination. There might be a legitimate circumstance that needs evaluation before taking the extreme action of termination.



Now...am I saying he did the right thing?

Not in the least. He should have just avoided the woman...then when he was ordered to go over to her house and do the work, he should have been smart enoough and creative enough to take the spouse with him...the flirtatious woman would never be so brazen to make passes at him while the wife was with him.

But, I wouldn't go and just say that anytime an employee takes 3 weeks sick leave (which they have earned) for a stupid reason...it does not warrant unconditional and immediate dismissal.

We're all human. That's something to remember. We all make mistakes.

You get 3-5 sick days a year with no carry over.

But it is to be used for real sickness - we can and will fire people who abuse that.

If he is being harrassed, there is something the company can do. He should talk to HR. If he were female and the other party were male, would we be having this conversation - no, we would clearly say talk to HR.

I need trust from my employees - I trust them and they trust me. If I can't trust them to be honest with me, then I can find someone else. If HR came to me and asked me to give someone 3 weeks stress leave, I would not have an issue. But if my employee lies about three weeks - they had better have been in rehab - even then I would want a doctors note and would strongly have told them I need advance notice.

We all make mistakes, but 3 weeks - thats not a mistake that is taking advantage of an employers trust.

James

Dude...take it from someone who got a reality check in life and lost over 200 lbs.

Sometimes you have problems you don't want to admit or talk to anyone about...even to the people you love and trust most...including really good bosses. And then...it hits you in the arse and you have to deal with it. There's no notice to give.

Sometimes you have addictions that no one knows about but you until you go to rehab, so there is no advanced notice. My grandfather was a functional alcoholic who worked on the railroad out of Chicago with no one every knowing he drank like a fish when he got home.

You can't expect someone to just totally divulge any and all personal affects of their life to you and to the depth you desire simply because you're their boss. That's unrealistic. Real trust is earned...not demanded.

And if the trust really swings both ways:

If you end up finding a melonoma on your skin and it could possibly be malignant, are you going to give your employees as advanced notice as possible of the possiblity to need to take lots of leave for chemo and what not right away gather all your employees and tell them as such before you know?

Or if it comes back malignant, are you going to tell your employees right away before you know that it requires laborious treatment or if you caught it early?

The fact is, zlito hit a wall and made a very bad decision. That is quite obvious.

However, he was not the root cause of his situation. And if you were his boss and to fire him, you still have a staffer in-house who might go on to harass more people.

Getting rid of the lymph nodes because they are cancerous doesn't get rid of the cancer.

He wasn't the cancer in this case...he was just affected by it.


As for his gender...you are exactly right. Female-on-male harassment is much harder to prove and much less frowned upon even in the modern workplace because of stereotypical "gender roles".

And I don't know what your corporate definition of "sexual harassment" or "harassment" is, but my employer defines offending conduct as such:

'...any form of harassment, discrimination or inappropriate verbal or physical conduct against another person which is based upon that person's race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, disability or marital status.'

Friendliness, which is all he would have been able to prove unless she'd made some unwarranted, provable action within the workplace, would have all she could have been found to have done.

At least, not without him baiting her into doing or saying something on tape in the office. Then, she would have grounds to say that he was the instigator of the situation.

Needless to say, you can't expect everyone to place all unlimited faith and trust in you simply because of you being their boss.

Some people just are not wired like that...and some people have a hard time trusting others...even their spouse...with personal "skeletons".

Anyways...I can tell that you fit the EA type at work and in fulfilling your role as a manager. And, that means you'll never find plausibility in my statements.

BTW...I got 96 hours of sick leave and 80 hours of paid vacation plus 12 paid holidays from day 1.

Guess from your description of your corporate paid leave, it's a good reason for me to stay in government and work up to that 5 weeks of paid vacation.

That...or move to Europe where most employers don't expect their people to be machines.

Good luck with your management philosophy. I hope it serves you well.

Its obvious that whatever a manager says they are out to screw you and that colours the way you intepret what I am saying.

If someone has a crisis, all I need is a phone call. If you can't make a call in the day, leave a message at midnight when I will not be there. But some information is required, you can't just not show up. If you can't face the boss on the phone, then have someone else call about the situation.

Trust me I have worked with people with addictions and other issues. I've dealt with employees who were harassed and who have harassed.

I don't see eye to eye with you on the OP's problem. If there is harassment, then deal with it - it festers if its left alone, so face it. Go to HR, if they do nothing about it will still feel better to get it off the chest and record it somewhere.

Nowhere did Zlito say he had given this person any hint that the attention is unwanted.

I didn't form all these opinions as a manager, I was in the ranks for 12 years before assuming any management function.

Like I tried to convey earlier, use the litmus test - if everyone did it, what would happen. If everyone took 3 weeks off and lied about it, its not hard to envision the department being closed, and all the staff including the manager being fired. You have to balance compassion on one hand with hte need to be fair with the other employees on the other.

James

James

where do you work? Nazi Germany. You get 10 sick days minimum in Australia by law.

If management policies are to be truly fair to all employees, then you can't set a single rule by which to judge all employees' situations.

All circumstances are different. All people are different. All HR Departments are different. All managers are different.

Each situation must be evaluated and be given due consideration to be totally fair.

After all, you don't know if zlito had been there 2 months...or 2 decades. Perhaps he had not built up a level of trust in his manager?

But, to say a single rule fits every possible situation is, in my opinion, quite obtuse.

Again, zlito might not have directly taken an aggressive approach to putting a stop to the situation.

However if zlito goes up to a woman who has been "very friendly" to him and says...

'Hey...I'm really not interested in your amourous advances toward me.'

that makes him vulnerable to a charge of sexual harassment himself. After all if you imply to someone that they are making sexual or amourous advances toward you and they want to get back at you for turning them down, she simply need to go HR and say...

'He said that I was making sexual advances toward him. I am offended and would never do that. I never act in an unprofessional manner.'

and his arse would end up being, in the corporate's eyes, in the wrong when he really wasn't.


Plus if he goes to HR with no proof whatsoever with an allegation...and somewhat revealing clothing such as loose blouses and slightly above the knee skirts would not be proof of sexual advancement...any HR department in a company would take no action other than maybe to speak to her manager and have him/her address the clothing issue...and at most might consider amending or modify their code of conduct concerning dress code to cover themself legally if they felt it was that much of a liability risk on their part.

And with that said, you can't possibly think that the feel good you should get from reporting harassment would end up a feel good if they deny your allegation...or even worse...turn the table on you.

And, I see zlito's case as one of those where he had no proof and a "Fatal Attraction" type woman who was going to extreme measures (including professional coercement) to get him in vulnerable situations.

It's not the reporting that gives relief...it's solving the problem. Hence, that is why I suggested in my last post removing the "cancer" from the workplace rather than firing an employee for being too passive.

And to let you know, I'm not green to the management arena either. After working 6 years professionally in programming IT, I moved up to a supervisory/management position and did budgeting, employee evaluations, staff meetings, technical analysis and implementation design, project estimations, etc. Plus, I also filled the roles of maintaining systems and software as well at the same time.

So, I'm not just talking out of my arse either. I've been in the management arena. The only reason I didn't stay where I was at because of where I was living, and because I was going to be sitting in the position I was in with no possibility of promotion until one of two people retired for me to move up. I was upwardly mobile and wanted more of a challenge than managing a $4M budget. So, I started over in Florida as a software engineer with a multi-billion dollar corporation to begin working my way up again. Of course, that flopped when they lied to me about "promoting from within" and "a very upwardly mobile work environment".

I worked over 2 years there...not once considered for promotion...only got cost-of-living increases and one salary adjustment which was corporate wide.

Hence, I don't promote being totally trusting of anyone in the workplace...or the workplace itself.


Nonetheless, I don't see drawing the hard-line being necessarily the best management technique.

And, being fair to all employees doesn't mean setting the same rule to them all. It means being fair to each of them, and giving each of them equal consideration and understanding.

Of course where I live, we have a larger embodiment which does this called the legal system. Everyone is given consideration under law, because their are extenuating circumstances.

And, the workplace is no different. Extenuating circumstances exist everywhere.

BTW, the everybody taking a 3-week unannounced leave...happens. It's called a walk-out.

I also do have to point out...you said:

"If someone has a crisis, all I need is a phone call. If you can't make a call in the day, leave a message at midnight when I will not be there. But some information is required, you can't just not show up. If you can't face the boss on the phone, then have someone else call about the situation."

zlito (or OP as you've called him) did say:

"...I called in and said I was a car accident and would be out for awhile."

So, he did make the call.

Again, I won't condone what he did. As I said, it was a very bad decision he made. However, I would not just say in a "cut and dry" manner 'Oh he's fired because he lied about the issues he's having.'

If I found out, I'd call him in and tell him I knew and ask him why he lied. If he told me about the situation with the woman, I'd then tell him 'Listen...you should have come to me. I would have helped you. I'm not gonna bite your head off for you being a victim. OK? Now, let's solve this thing so you can be you at work.' and dealt with it from there and helped him pursue and investigate it myself and with HR.

It might not be a manager's job to do HR functions, but it is your job to work in your employees' best interest...whether professional or personal.

Now on the other hand if I found out he was in the Bahamas for 3 weeks, I'd have gathered proof and said 'Listen...I know the truth. And, there was no underlying cause for you to take sick leave for an infirmity of any kind...mental or physical. I regret I have to do this, but I am going to have to notify HR of the situation and suggest dismissal.'

As I understand, you take a much harder line to the management philosophy than I do and hold steadfastly to the written rule. And as I said before, I wish you all the luck in the world with it and hope that it works for you and your employer...and I mean that sincerely.

Good luck.

hiya james..
i agree with you in principle, but come on, have you never done anything that you now look back on and think "oops". In the spirit of the thread, he told his excuse for not going to work. its done now, don't be beating dead horses.

i would never condone what he did. in fact in my last position i was supervisor, and one of the team was continually out for weeks on end with "back pain". We knew she was not as bad off as she was saying, but she had Dr's notes..what could we do. She would go on holidays believe it or not..but whatever. She cost me so many man hours it wasn't funny.

But on the flip side..we all need a day or 2 now and then to let our brains and bodies rest. I think especially in IT, non-it think cause your at a pc all day that its not demanding..my brain in is a state of meltdown at the minute, and the only thing holding me together is coffee, and the fact that i am on 13 days holidays as of Feb 8 (heading to good ole saskatchewan to visit ma and pa).

As well..i've worked for some right ****ing a****** in my time, and some employers literally deserve to have thier staff pull stuff like that.

I fondly remember the time i was told to "get on with it" and lift that box (back in my pre IT days) and when i put my back out, i had to finish my shift. Then when i rang in the next day after the Dr told me i have actually tore a major muscle in my back they said i could take the day off. I said i had a not for the week and i was to not do anything physical..they rang me the next day and asked could i come in. when i said no i was told to "watch myself". i quit in a month due to the attitude of my boss..

thats why some people "pull sickies" and feel no quilt what so ever

we all don't have great bosses to work for.

So..your place sounds pretty good, hiring?

In the US, most ppl get b/t 3 - 5 sick days...

I know I get 5 that are accrued by hours worked throughout the year... (Meaning if I took all 5 days the first week of January, then quit the second week, I'm allowed to take them, but they'd actually dock me for those days as I hadn't actually "accrued" them yet.)

I personally do not like having to give other people reasons for why I do something.

I like PTO policies better than "Sick Days" because I prefer to just say "I will be taking the day off". It matters not why, that choice belongs to me.

The relationship between me and the employer is (or should be) mutual. I never view them as being above me to the point that I have to justify myself to them, and whenever I am in a so called "leadership" position, I view it more as matter of order that prestige. It is the leader that is the servant.

As an employee I see my services as being of value to my employer. In a perfect world the value should be equal to my wages/benefits, and no one involved feels obligated beyond that balance.

you are being shafted.

Meh, 5 sick days and around 5 personal days makes up the difference for me. But honestly, I came in with very little to no RL experience and it is in exactly the location I wanted. I wasn't about to say no! Lol.

if that's all you guys get...you are getting screwed.

I get:

12 paid holidays
10 days vacation (gets higher with more years...up to 25)
12 days sick/personal leave

But, I don't abuse the sick leave. If I need it, I want to have it.

The company that I work for gives us 7 public holidays, 25 days vacation and your birthday off. Some of my colleagues have worked for them longer and have up to 32 days leave. Probably why US productivity is better.

In 2004 I was quite ill and off for 5 weeks and then worked short hours for another couple of weeks. I got full pay throughout that time and still had my vacation later in the year. Didn't get any overtime pay, though.

As IT Department (yes, department, as I'm all there is... Lol) I get the same as the Paralegals and experienced secretaries.
- 15 days vacation (1st-4th years with a day added on in the the 5th-9th years... No idea what happens if you are employed after 10 years... I guess they either kick you out or make the attorneys partners... but I doubt I'd be made a partner at a LAW firm! Lol),
- 4 sick days (whoops, I thought it was 5... Thanks for prodding me to look this stuff up! Lol)
- *1* personal day ...wow, I thought it was more than that.

So 20 days total... You guys got it good!!!!

25 days of PAID holidays

3 "agency days" where its not really a public holiday, but the office closes anyways (good friday, boxing day and day after boxing day)

5 or 6 PAID public holidays

5 "uncertified" PAID sick days (if your out for more than 2 days in a row you need a Dr's note)
If you are out sick more than 5 days in a row, you get the Dr to fill in a form, bring it to HR and they pay you your full wages and the government reimburses them for it.
For canadians, kind of like claiming for time off sick from unemployement..but no hassle and the boss does it for you.

hey jck..if ya move over to ireland you'll get paddy's day off

I almost would have said: come and work in the NL.

Depending on CAO (Central Labor Agreement) of the branch y're working in, or company y're working for.
Day's of from the boss are on average:
25 paid holiday's (with aging as of 40 every
5 years 1 day extra)
all (max 5) Christian day's (depending if there
not on Sunday)
1 queens day (if on working day)
with a 37 hour labor week
or the same + every month 2 day's extra if a 40 hours labor week.

But then again there are around 450 ppl/km2, and this is water surface included(about 1/3rd of it).
Only country's like Singapore and Bangladesh are more crowded. So if you like it crowded, do come over.

Rob

Lol, if only I spoke Dutch!

And I live in New York City... I'm used to crowded! LOL!

Mr. Zilto:
Once married you how can you feel that any other
" she " is a great looking. Few wives would accept that. Since your son is 30, I guess you are about fifty or more and a 30 year old redhead seems appropriate. But 130 pounds is a bit heavy, should be around 120 pounds. ( By the way you have heard of kg. )But for a " a great looking 30 year old redhead " to follow you crazily you must be one dashing male. This is really not an excuse for skipping work. Its an excuse to avoid a situation. I would say you would gave have been better off if you indicated to the " great looking 30 year old redhead " that you are queer.
Just kidding.
j.

A really cute guy! Haha I am the most nonqueer person you can meet, I respect a person's life style if you like the same sex more power to you.But my wife hits me on the back of the head if I look at a women too long! And that happens alot;) But we married vary young, I was 18 and the old lady was 16. The son was born six months after;) I look 35 but I am 47 and seem to get along with every one. Which is one of my problems I help any one that needs it and it may look like I care more about the person I help. Dont get me wrong I like helping others but some of them can take it wrong! The lady I was talking about had major problems on her computer a laptop so I fixed the problems. But it was one she used at home so I made a CD that she could use on her home computers (not the company computers) that would remove and fix all the problems she had. No one else had ever done this. Oh my son is 29 and as dumb as a log, I look like alot of people some say they see me at places I have never been? Mabie I am a genitic experimemt that went wrong! The men in black will be out to get me! Run for your life! See you on the SI-FI channel:)

> "Oh my son is 29 and as dumb as a log,"
People that say that should be neutered. You may as well beat him physically if you think that of him, as it only will hurt him emotionally.

> "Mabie I am a genitic experimemt that went wrong!"
And you call your *son* dumb.

*steps off the soap box before she starts to rant*

Diarrhea is the best simple lie. No one will ask you to come in, you dont need a doctors note, and no one questions it.

If a parent, kid sick or in trouble at school, no babysitter.

Cat crawled into the hood of car and started it not knowing it was there. Needs cleaning. It's gross but who suspects that lie?

House flood due to a burst pipe or leaky toilet from the middle of the night.

car broken into, needs new window. You dont need a police report nor show a receipt unless you used one too many times.

A mental day off. Explain that you are facing massive depession due to marital or financial woes. Most employers wont bat an eye and stay away from any liability for the refusal.

Insomnia. Nobody wishes that on anyone the trick is to set it up in conversations a day or two prior with bad sleep.

the best is just claiming sick and paying the 10.00 copay at a doctor's office and getting a dr's note for an excused absence, it's by far the best alibi and only wastes a little over an hour and you can parlay it into a day or two.

Wardrobe malfunction. You can say that the dryer the night before didnt dry your clothes leaving you with nothing clean or appropriate to wear, calling a repairman and doing laundry at friends house to make it in tomorrow. You did your laundry before going to bed expecting it to be dry but the heating element obviously broke.

There are so many to list, but you get the gist.

I'm in my 30s...and I have the perfect tool to fix her access point problems.... :^O

tell her to drop me an email.

I work for the local gov (hence me not doing very much workwise)..and when we want time off sick we can have it, there is no sick notes or questions when we get back to work. we have a very lenient time really. we work 27 hours a week (thats full time here)and only work 36 weeks a year but get paid for 52 weeks anyway, so anyone wanting to have time off un-nessessarily is really pushing it, i dont have time off unless i am dead. no point really with a holiday every 6-7 weeks anyway.

I am looking at relocating out of the USA...most European countries have reasonable work schedules and expectations...

and tell him you got dyharia, common sysptom of a cold that you can have without the teprature and with out lookking sick then get your docs certificate, and you can take as muchtime of work as you like.

my gf/wife/etc is extremely frisky today

...

.
It's a great day today, my son doesn't have school, we're not really that busy right now, so I'm going to take the day off and take my son to play a round of golf. Anybody want to join us?

That's the best one I've used -- and yes, I have used it.

sorry cannot come into work i am busy posting excuses on why on an internet forum here is the URL boss http.....

http://www.getodd.com/raz/sickday/sickday.html