Also, in this case, I think the Peter Principle also applies. The cream does not always rise to the top.
Oh, so I'm playing WoW (cedega), RtCW:ET (native), NWN (native), KOTOR II (cedega), HL2 (cedega), and CS:Source (cedega) all in Linux. Sure they have some issues and I do use cedega/point2play, but I'd rather use Linux than be stuck with a $200 OS that constantly crashes.
Oh I just updated my system from FC3 to FC4 via yum...why can't I do that with a MS OS? Why can't I just upgrade via updates on the net?
Discussion on:
Why is Windows the most widely used OS?
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Windows is (or Was) free.
Huh? what the hell are you talking about? I'll get to it in a bit.
Look Macs are cute but if you wanted the MAC OS then you had to buy a MAC PC (talk about monopoly) and MACs have been, despite all thier PR about being "A PC for the Rest of Us" the Cadillac of machines and was always way more expensive than a comparable PC and No Clones allowed to help spread the word. (That decision alone hampered them in the market place now they need IPODs and M$ ca$h to keep them afloat.)
That just didn't apply to retail purchase of the machines butthe whole infrastructure. Back in the Day when I was first getting started in the business I wanted to learn MACs (because they were so cool you know)and how to service and repair them and all that. However the only place to get that kind of Training was the Authorised Apple Training center in Cupertino(?) and it cost Thousands of Dollars + Plane fare and a Hotel. Heck I couldn't afford to buy the freaking computer let alone the training! (I was an orderly at a mental hospital, go ahead crack the jokes)
Then I saw that the local public Vo-Tech school had a "Basic Computer repair course" down the street and it only cost $90.00 for a nine week class! It mostly covered (75%) learning DOS, and then what the basics were of the hardware and where all the plugs go. Windows 3.1 was the last thing we learned. But that was enough to get me a job testing Floppy Drives at a CLONE PC* exporter in the warehouse district of Miami @ $7.00/hour. Not bad in 1992 for someone with no practical experience.
*(see the Clones effect? I'm telling you Apple really screwed the pooch on that one!)
What about Windoze being free? Thats easy two Words:
SOFTWARE PIRACY
M$ never really put any signifcant copy protection on the OS or any of their products. This was emntioned already but I thought I would stress it. It was dead simple to copy off a bazillion copies and distro them on BBS' and to you friends. And since you could buy third party PC Parts cheap (you couldn't do that with apple/MAC) it was nothing to build a machine loaded WIndows and be done with it. Now you build a bunch of these and put these in peoples homes and thats what you became familiar with. Combine that with IBM in the early days being the No. 1 provider of PC's in the business world and you have this cycle Apple (or Commodore my fave) couldn't touch.
(Someone else commented on this in another post and called it INERTIA and he was dead right)
People wanted a system at home that was more familiar to them and like the one at work, and then later people at work wanted something that was familiar like they used @ home.
Now that Linux is out and getting easier for the average user (Sorry Peguinheads its STILL a Geek tool in the OS2 stages of friendliness but your getting there! Kepp it up!) and it is free, for the most part. I forsee a similar type of Cycle. Windows is putting copy protection (in the form of an "activation" policy.)and you really have to buy it if you want to get updates. Since harware is still ridiculously cheap (and MACS are still proprietary) and you can get many forms of Linux for free legally, you will see more and more Linux based machines @ home and then you will also see the same corporate dynamic cycle at work too (as more people use it @work they will want it @home and vice versa people are creature of habit ya know)
You can stop reading here because that really is my answer to the question however Below I digress into some of the obstacles Linux will face gaining the desktop)
There are a few flies in the ointment though:
1. So many Variants of Linux that the Home/Work dynamic isn't as strong. So many flavors which one is right for me? Sometimes too much of a good thing is not too good. If user gets confused by all the variants of Linux they will just bring their PC back to the shop, and have them load WIN XP or VISTA and be done with it. If their computer "guy" who set it up for them still tries to insist that it (Linux) is "Technically superior" and all that and the customer isn't happy they will find someone who will do what they want.
2. The Game/Entertainment Factor. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy and parents who want their machines to do double duty will go with MS as the Choices are much larger. Sure Doom 3 and Unreal Tournament are available for Linux but Linux is in the same boat as MACs as far as games are concerned. Someday..maybe but not yet. (Note this may be offset by the Xbox/Playstation factor)
3. Linux still Geeky. This is the big one. Sorry guys I like Linux but most flavors are still too techy. Even "user freindly" versions rely on the command line to change the most basic settings. (Auto/full duplex 100mbit etc)**
YAST is good start and so are some of the other Desktops (KDC comes to mind but get get rid of all the "K" spelling stuff (Konqueror et al) its sooo cheesy. Now I'm sure a bunch of will reply well the X,Y,Z varients with R-D-U interface are easily downloadable and can be installed just by using RPM to check your dependancies and recompiling your Kernal and blah blah blah. Theres lots of options you are obviously too lazy to do your research.
Uh huh Right. Next!
4. Software, people use PC's to do stuff not just play with (We do we're different). Sure there's alot of Open Source stuff out there but most of it like Linux isn't ready for consumer Primetime. (apologies to Jaqui but its true Google up Project managment software for instance. Sure theres a couple of unstable Demos and Immendio but your own your own for support..)
If you can't install it by merely clicking on Install or Setup than you have lost. Same thing with having multiple versions of the program availble for Download on the same page. Huh? Which one do I use the one that says ver 2.1.4.56b (STABLE) or 2.1.4.6a (REF, why is there an UNSTABLE version is it crazy? Whats this Source Code? What no setup? What do you mean by compile it?
(I know these answers guys for those of you who don't get my point so don't answer back with some Diatribe with links and definitions it will only ehnance my point.)
** OK fair enough thats fairly in depth for your average home user probably not good example but for a Laptop user its can be critical. Many Hotels need it set to Auto or 10/half, While in the office due to Network infrasturcture or policy it needs to be set to 100/full or whatever) Being able to Change needs to be fairly easy and that usually means a GUI. Unless you write a script that runs with Root/Administrator Access or some other method you have to devise yourself.
Huh? what the hell are you talking about? I'll get to it in a bit.
Look Macs are cute but if you wanted the MAC OS then you had to buy a MAC PC (talk about monopoly) and MACs have been, despite all thier PR about being "A PC for the Rest of Us" the Cadillac of machines and was always way more expensive than a comparable PC and No Clones allowed to help spread the word. (That decision alone hampered them in the market place now they need IPODs and M$ ca$h to keep them afloat.)
That just didn't apply to retail purchase of the machines butthe whole infrastructure. Back in the Day when I was first getting started in the business I wanted to learn MACs (because they were so cool you know)and how to service and repair them and all that. However the only place to get that kind of Training was the Authorised Apple Training center in Cupertino(?) and it cost Thousands of Dollars + Plane fare and a Hotel. Heck I couldn't afford to buy the freaking computer let alone the training! (I was an orderly at a mental hospital, go ahead crack the jokes)
Then I saw that the local public Vo-Tech school had a "Basic Computer repair course" down the street and it only cost $90.00 for a nine week class! It mostly covered (75%) learning DOS, and then what the basics were of the hardware and where all the plugs go. Windows 3.1 was the last thing we learned. But that was enough to get me a job testing Floppy Drives at a CLONE PC* exporter in the warehouse district of Miami @ $7.00/hour. Not bad in 1992 for someone with no practical experience.
*(see the Clones effect? I'm telling you Apple really screwed the pooch on that one!)
What about Windoze being free? Thats easy two Words:
SOFTWARE PIRACY
M$ never really put any signifcant copy protection on the OS or any of their products. This was emntioned already but I thought I would stress it. It was dead simple to copy off a bazillion copies and distro them on BBS' and to you friends. And since you could buy third party PC Parts cheap (you couldn't do that with apple/MAC) it was nothing to build a machine loaded WIndows and be done with it. Now you build a bunch of these and put these in peoples homes and thats what you became familiar with. Combine that with IBM in the early days being the No. 1 provider of PC's in the business world and you have this cycle Apple (or Commodore my fave) couldn't touch.
(Someone else commented on this in another post and called it INERTIA and he was dead right)
People wanted a system at home that was more familiar to them and like the one at work, and then later people at work wanted something that was familiar like they used @ home.
Now that Linux is out and getting easier for the average user (Sorry Peguinheads its STILL a Geek tool in the OS2 stages of friendliness but your getting there! Kepp it up!) and it is free, for the most part. I forsee a similar type of Cycle. Windows is putting copy protection (in the form of an "activation" policy.)and you really have to buy it if you want to get updates. Since harware is still ridiculously cheap (and MACS are still proprietary) and you can get many forms of Linux for free legally, you will see more and more Linux based machines @ home and then you will also see the same corporate dynamic cycle at work too (as more people use it @work they will want it @home and vice versa people are creature of habit ya know)
You can stop reading here because that really is my answer to the question however Below I digress into some of the obstacles Linux will face gaining the desktop)
There are a few flies in the ointment though:
1. So many Variants of Linux that the Home/Work dynamic isn't as strong. So many flavors which one is right for me? Sometimes too much of a good thing is not too good. If user gets confused by all the variants of Linux they will just bring their PC back to the shop, and have them load WIN XP or VISTA and be done with it. If their computer "guy" who set it up for them still tries to insist that it (Linux) is "Technically superior" and all that and the customer isn't happy they will find someone who will do what they want.
2. The Game/Entertainment Factor. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy and parents who want their machines to do double duty will go with MS as the Choices are much larger. Sure Doom 3 and Unreal Tournament are available for Linux but Linux is in the same boat as MACs as far as games are concerned. Someday..maybe but not yet. (Note this may be offset by the Xbox/Playstation factor)
3. Linux still Geeky. This is the big one. Sorry guys I like Linux but most flavors are still too techy. Even "user freindly" versions rely on the command line to change the most basic settings. (Auto/full duplex 100mbit etc)**
YAST is good start and so are some of the other Desktops (KDC comes to mind but get get rid of all the "K" spelling stuff (Konqueror et al) its sooo cheesy. Now I'm sure a bunch of will reply well the X,Y,Z varients with R-D-U interface are easily downloadable and can be installed just by using RPM to check your dependancies and recompiling your Kernal and blah blah blah. Theres lots of options you are obviously too lazy to do your research.
Uh huh Right. Next!
4. Software, people use PC's to do stuff not just play with (We do we're different). Sure there's alot of Open Source stuff out there but most of it like Linux isn't ready for consumer Primetime. (apologies to Jaqui but its true Google up Project managment software for instance. Sure theres a couple of unstable Demos and Immendio but your own your own for support..)
If you can't install it by merely clicking on Install or Setup than you have lost. Same thing with having multiple versions of the program availble for Download on the same page. Huh? Which one do I use the one that says ver 2.1.4.56b (STABLE) or 2.1.4.6a (REF, why is there an UNSTABLE version is it crazy? Whats this Source Code? What no setup? What do you mean by compile it?
(I know these answers guys for those of you who don't get my point so don't answer back with some Diatribe with links and definitions it will only ehnance my point.)
** OK fair enough thats fairly in depth for your average home user probably not good example but for a Laptop user its can be critical. Many Hotels need it set to Auto or 10/half, While in the office due to Network infrasturcture or policy it needs to be set to 100/full or whatever) Being able to Change needs to be fairly easy and that usually means a GUI. Unless you write a script that runs with Root/Administrator Access or some other method you have to devise yourself.
Thank you for articulating what I have been unable to do in these threads - explain why Linux is failing to make a lot of headway in the desktop market (your items #1-4).
I hope the Linux Enthusiasts (apotheo, jck, HAL, Col, etc.) will read this and LEARN from it. If you want more people to try and learn Linux, it helps if you refrain from anti-Windows vitriole and explain why you love Linux in terms that techies of varying experience levels can understand.
I hope the Linux Enthusiasts (apotheo, jck, HAL, Col, etc.) will read this and LEARN from it. If you want more people to try and learn Linux, it helps if you refrain from anti-Windows vitriole and explain why you love Linux in terms that techies of varying experience levels can understand.
I hope People don't look at it as a bash on their beloved LINUX. I'm working with it it here at my Office and trying to get applicability but its tough slog. By the Way this is for a Desktop replacement, mostly for Knowldege workers and call centers. We already use it for some of our servers where it Makes sense. Our company does major Financial/Insurance stuff and Windows based software totally 0wns this world.
Mostly for the aforementioned points (except for games of course). No matter which flavor I've tried (Currently playing with NLD and SUSE) its always seems more hassle than the amount of effort I put into it. Of course I know it will pay off eventually, the price points will eventually be too much for our managment to ignore. But the reality is while LINUX is Cheap a LINUX guy isn't. While the Software is Cheap it doesn't always work and the standard "Check the User Groups" answer does not cut it in my world.
I like LINUX, I want it to succeed. But as you pointed out, calling me or my users lazy, inept etc. and then tell me how bad Windows is is not going to win over converts. Its the old Attracting with Sugar than Salt principle and LINUX folks I have dealt with are a rather Salty lot.
Mostly for the aforementioned points (except for games of course). No matter which flavor I've tried (Currently playing with NLD and SUSE) its always seems more hassle than the amount of effort I put into it. Of course I know it will pay off eventually, the price points will eventually be too much for our managment to ignore. But the reality is while LINUX is Cheap a LINUX guy isn't. While the Software is Cheap it doesn't always work and the standard "Check the User Groups" answer does not cut it in my world.
I like LINUX, I want it to succeed. But as you pointed out, calling me or my users lazy, inept etc. and then tell me how bad Windows is is not going to win over converts. Its the old Attracting with Sugar than Salt principle and LINUX folks I have dealt with are a rather Salty lot.
You probably have support contracts with vendors for software and hardware already? Linux is no different.
Anyone in a corporate environment that isn't a GOD on that particular Application/OS/Hardware should have a suport contract. User groups are great for the home user, but in the corporate world you need an answer NOW, not in three days. Linux support is out there.
Is that sweet enough?
I guess I sometimes come across as a chinese dish. Sweet and sour pork? :^O
Peace all.
Anyone in a corporate environment that isn't a GOD on that particular Application/OS/Hardware should have a suport contract. User groups are great for the home user, but in the corporate world you need an answer NOW, not in three days. Linux support is out there.
Is that sweet enough?
I guess I sometimes come across as a chinese dish. Sweet and sour pork? :^O Peace all.
It is breaking down first the original statement of "Why is Windows the most widely used OS?".
It is agreed that it is the most widely used on the desktop.
It is not agreed that it is the most widely used on servers of all sizes.
From there it is how did MS get EVERYWHERE? Marketing, leveraging, and strong-arm tactics.
IBM had no idea how to market OS2 Warp and you couldn't just walk into a store and buy it. Dispite being more stable with identical functionality and feel, it didn't matter because you just couldn't easily get it. (big blue was a big mess back then)
The introduction of *nux to the mix is for another time, another place.
(I cencored my other post, just for you!)
It is agreed that it is the most widely used on the desktop.
It is not agreed that it is the most widely used on servers of all sizes.
From there it is how did MS get EVERYWHERE? Marketing, leveraging, and strong-arm tactics.
IBM had no idea how to market OS2 Warp and you couldn't just walk into a store and buy it. Dispite being more stable with identical functionality and feel, it didn't matter because you just couldn't easily get it. (big blue was a big mess back then)
The introduction of *nux to the mix is for another time, another place.
(I cencored my other post, just for you!)
Someone else mentioned Apple, and also noted their questionable marketing strategy. I don't think you can discuss the popularity of one product without mentioning why it is more popular than it's competitors.
McDonald's is the most popular burger joint (based on either net sales or number of stores), but I'm sure most of us can agree they don't have the best burger. If you're going to discuss why they are the most popular, you may have to mention Burger King and Wendy's for comparison purposes.
McDonald's is the most popular burger joint (based on either net sales or number of stores), but I'm sure most of us can agree they don't have the best burger. If you're going to discuss why they are the most popular, you may have to mention Burger King and Wendy's for comparison purposes.
thinking of all those terrible "restaurants"!
Does anyone else remember a time when we ate food that tasted good without making everyone 50 pounds overweight?
Does anyone else remember a time when we ate food that tasted good without making everyone 50 pounds overweight?
1. I don't just jump in with "anti-Windows vitriole" [sic]. When someone makes inaccurate statements about Windows security, stability, or general superiority, I respond.
2. william Herrera's points 1-4 indicate clearly what some of the major perceptions are that hinder Linux adoption, and there's a kernel ('scuse the pun) of truth to each, but they're inflated and exaggerated.
3. I (and likely Col, jmgarvin, Jaqui, and others) never indicated that Linux wasn't hindered in widespread adoption by a number of factors, but the actual hindrances don't get brought up much by the Microsoftie crowd, so there's not much call to respond to them. Once in a while, though, I do address such issues as difference in documentation paradigm, marketing, ease of acquisition, and the like. The fact that I have to run damage control on FUD consumed and dutifully regurgitated by those such as yourself, however, really skews the subject matter of such discussions in the direction of explaining where your comparative inexperience with Linux has gotten in the way of strictly accurate statements.
2. william Herrera's points 1-4 indicate clearly what some of the major perceptions are that hinder Linux adoption, and there's a kernel ('scuse the pun) of truth to each, but they're inflated and exaggerated.
3. I (and likely Col, jmgarvin, Jaqui, and others) never indicated that Linux wasn't hindered in widespread adoption by a number of factors, but the actual hindrances don't get brought up much by the Microsoftie crowd, so there's not much call to respond to them. Once in a while, though, I do address such issues as difference in documentation paradigm, marketing, ease of acquisition, and the like. The fact that I have to run damage control on FUD consumed and dutifully regurgitated by those such as yourself, however, really skews the subject matter of such discussions in the direction of explaining where your comparative inexperience with Linux has gotten in the way of strictly accurate statements.
"1. So many Variants of Linux that the Home/Work dynamic isn't as strong. So many flavors which one is right for me? Sometimes too much of a good thing is not too good. If user gets confused by all the variants of Linux they will just bring their PC back to the shop, and have them load WIN XP or VISTA and be done with it. If their computer "guy" who set it up for them still tries to insist that it (Linux) is "Technically superior" and all that and the customer isn't happy they will find someone who will do what they want."
Part of the problem is that techs generally don't understand Linux. I just got back from CompUseless. I talked to a tech and explained I needed a scanner that would work in Linux without having to jump through hoops. He then told me "scanners don't work in Linux, nothing does. You have to use Windows." What!!?? With ignorance like that it is impossible to find what works best for you.
As for the number of distros, I think the only thing a tech needs to find out is:
"What are you using it for." That decides the distro. I use FC3 because it is a jack of all trades OS. I can serve out web pages, files, email, play games, use it as a desktop, etc. What distro is right for you? I don't know. Plenty of distros come on a Live CD, so you can try them and if you don't like them toss the CD.
I would suggest for the noob:
1) Fedora
2) Ubuntu
3) Knoppix
I would suggest Gentoo and Fedora for excellent community support and Ubuntu for good developer support.
As for setting up Linux properly, it isn't hard. I can even get theme that makes it look just like XP. Most techs are Linux savy enough to set it up properly, let alone make it usable for the user.
"2. The Game/Entertainment Factor. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy and parents who want their machines to do double duty will go with MS as the Choices are much larger. Sure Doom 3 and Unreal Tournament are available for Linux but Linux is in the same boat as MACs as far as games are concerned. Someday..maybe but not yet. (Note this may be offset by the Xbox/Playstation factor)"
I'm not going to touch on the death of computer gaming because that is just a religious war waiting to happen (my console/pc/whatever is better than your console/pc/whatever).
As for gaming, most Windows games will work just fine in Linux. Cedega/Point2play are easy to install and use. Some games run native in Linux (Doom 3, UT2004, NWN, RtCW:ET, etc), but for those that don't Cedega works just fine. I play WoW, CS:Source, and HL2 just fine on my FC3 box...and ironically enough I get higher frame rates EMULATING Windows...go figure.
"3. Linux still Geeky. This is the big one. Sorry guys I like Linux but most flavors are still too techy. Even "user freindly" versions rely on the command line to change the most basic settings. (Auto/full duplex 100mbit etc)**
YAST is good start and so are some of the other Desktops (KDC comes to mind but get get rid of all the "K" spelling stuff (Konqueror et al) its sooo cheesy. Now I'm sure a bunch of will reply well the X,Y,Z varients with R-D-U interface are easily downloadable and can be installed just by using RPM to check your dependancies and recompiling your Kernal and blah blah blah. Theres lots of options you are obviously too lazy to do your research."
I agree to an extent it is too geeky, but there are options and you no longer have to recompile your kernel for everything. Linux has come a LONG way in just a few years. Yum, up2date, aptget, yast, et al are all very easy to use and all have a GUI of some sort available for them.
As for almost all system tasks you can do them in the GUI now. Most tools Apache to Zebra have a nice handy GUI and you don't have to touch a command line.
Also, now you can just double click on an RPM and it will install. Installing stuff in Linux has become QUITE easy and less command line oriented. While you can still use the command line, you don't have to any more.
I can't argue with the cheesy K stuff.
"4. Software, people use PC's to do stuff not just play with (We do we're different). Sure there's alot of Open Source stuff out there but most of it like Linux isn't ready for consumer Primetime. (apologies to Jaqui but its true Google up Project managment software for instance. Sure theres a couple of unstable Demos and Immendio but your own your own for support..)
If you can't install it by merely clicking on Install or Setup than you have lost. Same thing with having multiple versions of the program availble for Download on the same page. Huh? Which one do I use the one that says ver 2.1.4.56b (STABLE) or 2.1.4.6a (REF, why is there an UNSTABLE version is it crazy? Whats this Source Code? What no setup? What do you mean by compile it?"
Typical "desktop" packages come in RPM (or whatever flavor) format that simply need to be double clicked in the GUI to have them install. While some packages are hard to find, yum/apt-get/yast/et al will grab all the dependencies for you. Gone are the days of ./configure && make && make install && make clean...Not much stuff is compiled from source (although it is still out there as an option)...
I agree the pages are confusing and the package naming convention for the average user is hard to understand, but I think that will come along as Linux becomes more friendly. Plus, you don't have to go to the pages anymore, you can just use your updater to get them!
Part of the problem is that techs generally don't understand Linux. I just got back from CompUseless. I talked to a tech and explained I needed a scanner that would work in Linux without having to jump through hoops. He then told me "scanners don't work in Linux, nothing does. You have to use Windows." What!!?? With ignorance like that it is impossible to find what works best for you.
As for the number of distros, I think the only thing a tech needs to find out is:
"What are you using it for." That decides the distro. I use FC3 because it is a jack of all trades OS. I can serve out web pages, files, email, play games, use it as a desktop, etc. What distro is right for you? I don't know. Plenty of distros come on a Live CD, so you can try them and if you don't like them toss the CD.
I would suggest for the noob:
1) Fedora
2) Ubuntu
3) Knoppix
I would suggest Gentoo and Fedora for excellent community support and Ubuntu for good developer support.
As for setting up Linux properly, it isn't hard. I can even get theme that makes it look just like XP. Most techs are Linux savy enough to set it up properly, let alone make it usable for the user.
"2. The Game/Entertainment Factor. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy and parents who want their machines to do double duty will go with MS as the Choices are much larger. Sure Doom 3 and Unreal Tournament are available for Linux but Linux is in the same boat as MACs as far as games are concerned. Someday..maybe but not yet. (Note this may be offset by the Xbox/Playstation factor)"
I'm not going to touch on the death of computer gaming because that is just a religious war waiting to happen (my console/pc/whatever is better than your console/pc/whatever).
As for gaming, most Windows games will work just fine in Linux. Cedega/Point2play are easy to install and use. Some games run native in Linux (Doom 3, UT2004, NWN, RtCW:ET, etc), but for those that don't Cedega works just fine. I play WoW, CS:Source, and HL2 just fine on my FC3 box...and ironically enough I get higher frame rates EMULATING Windows...go figure.
"3. Linux still Geeky. This is the big one. Sorry guys I like Linux but most flavors are still too techy. Even "user freindly" versions rely on the command line to change the most basic settings. (Auto/full duplex 100mbit etc)**
YAST is good start and so are some of the other Desktops (KDC comes to mind but get get rid of all the "K" spelling stuff (Konqueror et al) its sooo cheesy. Now I'm sure a bunch of will reply well the X,Y,Z varients with R-D-U interface are easily downloadable and can be installed just by using RPM to check your dependancies and recompiling your Kernal and blah blah blah. Theres lots of options you are obviously too lazy to do your research."
I agree to an extent it is too geeky, but there are options and you no longer have to recompile your kernel for everything. Linux has come a LONG way in just a few years. Yum, up2date, aptget, yast, et al are all very easy to use and all have a GUI of some sort available for them.
As for almost all system tasks you can do them in the GUI now. Most tools Apache to Zebra have a nice handy GUI and you don't have to touch a command line.
Also, now you can just double click on an RPM and it will install. Installing stuff in Linux has become QUITE easy and less command line oriented. While you can still use the command line, you don't have to any more.
I can't argue with the cheesy K stuff.
"4. Software, people use PC's to do stuff not just play with (We do we're different). Sure there's alot of Open Source stuff out there but most of it like Linux isn't ready for consumer Primetime. (apologies to Jaqui but its true Google up Project managment software for instance. Sure theres a couple of unstable Demos and Immendio but your own your own for support..)
If you can't install it by merely clicking on Install or Setup than you have lost. Same thing with having multiple versions of the program availble for Download on the same page. Huh? Which one do I use the one that says ver 2.1.4.56b (STABLE) or 2.1.4.6a (REF, why is there an UNSTABLE version is it crazy? Whats this Source Code? What no setup? What do you mean by compile it?"
Typical "desktop" packages come in RPM (or whatever flavor) format that simply need to be double clicked in the GUI to have them install. While some packages are hard to find, yum/apt-get/yast/et al will grab all the dependencies for you. Gone are the days of ./configure && make && make install && make clean...Not much stuff is compiled from source (although it is still out there as an option)...
I agree the pages are confusing and the package naming convention for the average user is hard to understand, but I think that will come along as Linux becomes more friendly. Plus, you don't have to go to the pages anymore, you can just use your updater to get them!
Back around 1995 or so I used the FVWM or FVWM2 window manager in XFree86. It looked exactly like Windows 95. It seems that those two X themes changed since then. I wanted to use them to show to people using M$ that Linux can look familiar to them but I haven't been able to do that.
Are you talking about FVWM or FVWM2, or are you talking about another window manager?
Are you talking about FVWM or FVWM2, or are you talking about another window manager?
FVWM has a Win9x theme that looks very nice, although it is clunky (I like to use a "clean" FVWM)
http://fvwm-themes.sourceforge.net/ (then choose Redmond98 as your theme)
Gnome and KDE both have "XP" themes for them...
IIRC this is for Gnome: http://art.gnome.org/themes/gtk2/637/
IIRC this is for KDE:
http://www.xptheme.info/resources_view.cfm/hurl/specific=90/VisualStyles=/rnam=KDE%20XP%20Beta%201/
Also can be found (for both)at:
http://themes.freshmeat.net/projects/experience/?branch_id=53380&release_id=201881
If anyone has better themes please post a link...Thanks!
http://fvwm-themes.sourceforge.net/ (then choose Redmond98 as your theme)
Gnome and KDE both have "XP" themes for them...
IIRC this is for Gnome: http://art.gnome.org/themes/gtk2/637/
IIRC this is for KDE:
http://www.xptheme.info/resources_view.cfm/hurl/specific=90/VisualStyles=/rnam=KDE%20XP%20Beta%201/
Also can be found (for both)at:
http://themes.freshmeat.net/projects/experience/?branch_id=53380&release_id=201881
If anyone has better themes please post a link...Thanks!
If more Linux Users responded like that it would go far to shed some of baggage that Linux has been carrying. I would like to make a couple of comments.
Your definately right about Some of the Techs at Comp*** or Best***. I'll pose this question though (Rehtorically)if the techs that your avg user consults can't help then what is the Avg user to do? Other than go outside conventional Channels, or pay through the Nose and buy a MAC so it works with the their IPod (Joke)
Note: This is a marketing opportunity for the LINUX crowd. Quit preaching to the Choir and know your audience.
Point 2: Agreed no Holy Wars here! I have both a PC and an XBOX and am just fine with that. I have not tried the Cedega/Point 2play option so I can't comment. But now that I know I will check it out! Thanks
Points 3 and 4. True Linux has come a long way in ease of use. But in terms of sheer variety you make my case for me. the Savvy Tech can figure this out but your Average user can't. YAST/ YUM ? etc etc. Whos to know the difference? And I've found that for some of these the GUI is an afterthought or far more complex than it needs to be. I know variety is the Spice of life but conme on guys pick a team and play! And that Pesky Command line is still around Even for RPM Distros.
Case in Point. VMWARE for Linux Certainly not a Bedroom operation but its still not as easy as its Windows Counterpart. Its an RPM Install but it really isn't finished unitl I Drop to a terminal Session and run some Magic there and even then it still doesn't make an icon/shortcut for me! OK Call me lazy or whatever but I don't have to do that in Windows. (or Mac and thats BSD under the hood right?) In any case the variety is mixed and so is the Quality. Sorting Through that mess can be Daunting even for a technical user like me.
Anyways, All in all LINUX and its flavors are getting better,like I said its in the OS2 stage of Friendliness (ok maybe a little better). But while the products are getting better the people side still needs work. (Hide the ZZ-Top look alikes with Penguin Tatoos and Death to Bill Gates t-shirts that look like they need to be washed--more than once, when the press comes around OK?)
Here is where marketing Magic $$ make the Difference. Getting info out to regular users in popular trade publications. Get Professional reviews of software. Not Esoteric stuff but real day to day stuff. I can't say it enough - know your audience! Many Linux Rags and sites preach to the choir and rag too much on Microsoft or the "the Establishment" Its OK to call Bill gates the spawn of Satan on Slashdot but guess what, that doesn't play well in Peoria. they should make it a policy to ban the use of M$ and just be mature about it. The Community has to grow up, quit name calling and start focusing on the Positive Aspects of what your trying to sell. And make no mistake you are selling! Maybe some of it is free but you still to convince people of the worth of the product, not the worhtlessness of the competition (or your users).
Your post was excellent because it did just that I applaud you and thank you for it, I only hope more follow that example.
(Win those hearts and Minds you know!)
Your definately right about Some of the Techs at Comp*** or Best***. I'll pose this question though (Rehtorically)if the techs that your avg user consults can't help then what is the Avg user to do? Other than go outside conventional Channels, or pay through the Nose and buy a MAC so it works with the their IPod (Joke)
Note: This is a marketing opportunity for the LINUX crowd. Quit preaching to the Choir and know your audience.
Point 2: Agreed no Holy Wars here! I have both a PC and an XBOX and am just fine with that. I have not tried the Cedega/Point 2play option so I can't comment. But now that I know I will check it out! Thanks
Points 3 and 4. True Linux has come a long way in ease of use. But in terms of sheer variety you make my case for me. the Savvy Tech can figure this out but your Average user can't. YAST/ YUM ? etc etc. Whos to know the difference? And I've found that for some of these the GUI is an afterthought or far more complex than it needs to be. I know variety is the Spice of life but conme on guys pick a team and play! And that Pesky Command line is still around Even for RPM Distros.
Case in Point. VMWARE for Linux Certainly not a Bedroom operation but its still not as easy as its Windows Counterpart. Its an RPM Install but it really isn't finished unitl I Drop to a terminal Session and run some Magic there and even then it still doesn't make an icon/shortcut for me! OK Call me lazy or whatever but I don't have to do that in Windows. (or Mac and thats BSD under the hood right?) In any case the variety is mixed and so is the Quality. Sorting Through that mess can be Daunting even for a technical user like me.
Anyways, All in all LINUX and its flavors are getting better,like I said its in the OS2 stage of Friendliness (ok maybe a little better). But while the products are getting better the people side still needs work. (Hide the ZZ-Top look alikes with Penguin Tatoos and Death to Bill Gates t-shirts that look like they need to be washed--more than once, when the press comes around OK?)
Here is where marketing Magic $$ make the Difference. Getting info out to regular users in popular trade publications. Get Professional reviews of software. Not Esoteric stuff but real day to day stuff. I can't say it enough - know your audience! Many Linux Rags and sites preach to the choir and rag too much on Microsoft or the "the Establishment" Its OK to call Bill gates the spawn of Satan on Slashdot but guess what, that doesn't play well in Peoria. they should make it a policy to ban the use of M$ and just be mature about it. The Community has to grow up, quit name calling and start focusing on the Positive Aspects of what your trying to sell. And make no mistake you are selling! Maybe some of it is free but you still to convince people of the worth of the product, not the worhtlessness of the competition (or your users).
Your post was excellent because it did just that I applaud you and thank you for it, I only hope more follow that example.
(Win those hearts and Minds you know!)
1) There are groups out there to help the noob, but typically your noob only knows about CompUseless and Best Buy. The LUGs are out there, but I don't know if an average user can find them. Also there are your local Linux service centers (if they are in Albuquerque, the must be everywhere). Sure, they are mom and pop, but they typically know their stuff.
2)www.transgaming.com is where you want to go. It will cost you $15.00 to get it, but it is so worth it! cedega is the command line and Point2Play is the GUI.
3/4) Part of the image are the few bad apples. I call them Linux Nazi's (Godwin invoked?). They tend to make the whole Linux community look like tin foil hat wearing unibombers. I don't know HOW to part with that image, but there has to be a way the quiet majority that can squelch it.
I also agree with the short-cut creation and installation of some programs. While many have made an install script (like webmin), some are stuck in the stone age. 'Course now many users are creating RPMs and uploading them to various repositories. Hell, getting the lastest video driver is even easy now (magic!). It is coming along, but it still has a few features to catch up to...
I also agree with the marketing. I think Red Hat has done a bang up job in the corporate sector. Now if only we could find a distro that did the same thing for desktops.
I'll do it, but I need a VC and about $3 million in invenstment capital for marketing and desktop support
2)www.transgaming.com is where you want to go. It will cost you $15.00 to get it, but it is so worth it! cedega is the command line and Point2Play is the GUI.
3/4) Part of the image are the few bad apples. I call them Linux Nazi's (Godwin invoked?). They tend to make the whole Linux community look like tin foil hat wearing unibombers. I don't know HOW to part with that image, but there has to be a way the quiet majority that can squelch it.
I also agree with the short-cut creation and installation of some programs. While many have made an install script (like webmin), some are stuck in the stone age. 'Course now many users are creating RPMs and uploading them to various repositories. Hell, getting the lastest video driver is even easy now (magic!). It is coming along, but it still has a few features to catch up to...
I also agree with the marketing. I think Red Hat has done a bang up job in the corporate sector. Now if only we could find a distro that did the same thing for desktops.
I'll do it, but I need a VC and about $3 million in invenstment capital for marketing and desktop support
1) I attended a couple of meetings of my local user group, but I came away disappointed. The group was based at the local university so most of the members were in the academic community, and most of the topics struck me as either theoretical or impractical (writing diagnostic software, debugging statistical programs, etc.) I realize LUGs in bigger cities are probably more diverse and have a larger percentage of members from the "real world".
I did a quick scan of the Columbia SC yellow pages, but found no ads that mentioned Linux; there was a Mac specialist!
1 / 3) There is another LUG a couple of hours away, but since their URL included something like "windowssucks", I decided they were another group of evangelists trying to convert me.
Stupid question from the Linux-illiterate guy: do any of the major ISPs (either dial-up, cable, or DSL) support Linux? Most of these companies have CDs that do the installion for you, making it easy for the average non-technical home user. The software on these CDs usually requires Windows. Do any of the national ISPs offer something similar for Linux?
After you find your VC, alert us all when you go public.
I did a quick scan of the Columbia SC yellow pages, but found no ads that mentioned Linux; there was a Mac specialist!
1 / 3) There is another LUG a couple of hours away, but since their URL included something like "windowssucks", I decided they were another group of evangelists trying to convert me.
Stupid question from the Linux-illiterate guy: do any of the major ISPs (either dial-up, cable, or DSL) support Linux? Most of these companies have CDs that do the installion for you, making it easy for the average non-technical home user. The software on these CDs usually requires Windows. Do any of the national ISPs offer something similar for Linux?
After you find your VC, alert us all when you go public.
Ah, sometimes it is hard to find a good LUG. Sometime you just have to keep trying. The Linux Nazi's can take over a LUG if they aren't careful.
Strange that there aren't any Linux shops, esp around a university...
As for ISPs:
This is a loaded question that comes with a yes and a no answer. Some ISP software is just a PPP script that can be copied and used (eg Earthlink). Some ISP software is a little more complicated than that, and you have to jump through a few hoops (eg AOL).
For most broadband providers it is a non-issue as their software does nothing more than install a toolbar in IE
Check out:
http://www.knowplace.org/ppp.html
Strange that there aren't any Linux shops, esp around a university...
As for ISPs:
This is a loaded question that comes with a yes and a no answer. Some ISP software is just a PPP script that can be copied and used (eg Earthlink). Some ISP software is a little more complicated than that, and you have to jump through a few hoops (eg AOL).
For most broadband providers it is a non-issue as their software does nothing more than install a toolbar in IE
Check out:
http://www.knowplace.org/ppp.html
There are ISP dialer programs you can use for dialup access where you don't actually need the ISP software to connect. For broadband, usually all you really need to do is plug in the network cable and open a browser. If you've got DHCP networking set up on your Linux system, which is usually the default, you're probably good. If you're running multiple systems off one broadband connection with an off the shelf router, your router is handling the uplink anyway, and all you have to do with your Linux system is plug into the network.
As for LUGs:
http://www.linux.org/groups/
As for LUGs:
http://www.linux.org/groups/
Okay, I'm confused. The first sentence in your reply says "techs generally don't understand Linux." Your last sentence in point one says "Most techs are Linux savvy enough to set it up properly." Which is it?
Speaking as a non-Linux-savvy professional, I am confused by the number of choices offered by the open source movement in general and Linux in particular. Yes, there are a number of distros available as Live CDs. It's fine to tell a hobbiest "Try one; if you don't like it, try another." The average home user isn't interested in test driving operating systems. He wants to buy the box with as much of it as preconfigured as possible. That usually means a Windows machine from a retailer.
Speaking as a non-Linux-savvy professional, I am confused by the number of choices offered by the open source movement in general and Linux in particular. Yes, there are a number of distros available as Live CDs. It's fine to tell a hobbiest "Try one; if you don't like it, try another." The average home user isn't interested in test driving operating systems. He wants to buy the box with as much of it as preconfigured as possible. That usually means a Windows machine from a retailer.
Linspire is the Windows of the Linux world. So, for the non-interested person, I'd highly suggest that distro.
My comment I meant this:
The computer techs at various retail and computer stores don't understand Linux.
Most techy people (people who are tech savvy enough to understand computers and OSs) can deal with the few curve balls Linux may send them.
My comment I meant this:
The computer techs at various retail and computer stores don't understand Linux.
Most techy people (people who are tech savvy enough to understand computers and OSs) can deal with the few curve balls Linux may send them.
It's helpful to keep in mind that technically proficient people savvy enough to understand computers and OSes aren't working at CompUSA. The people working there, or Best Buy, or Circuit City for that matter, are generally barely competent enough to install Worlds of Warcraft on their store-bought Windows gaming systems.
jmgarvin, I was confused by your use of "techs" to refer to salespeople in the first use and information technology professionals in the second. I understand your point now, even if I disagree with you about the Linux skill of the average IT professional. Maybe I've led a sheltered career in a technological backwater, but I've never seen a Unix box and my Linux experience is limited to three distros (RH, Suse, and Knoppix), none of which I'm ran for over a couple of months. I wouldn't dare recommend one over the other. I suspect there are a large number of paid professionals who have spent most of their careers supporting Windows systems; I must count myself among them.
I think we can agree that Microsoft's marketing department is the main reason for their large installation base, whether it's truly the most popular or not. The average home user wants a box he can fire right up with minimal effort, and he is willing to pay a premium for this perceived convenience. Microsoft has done the best job of convincing consumers that a computer running their products will fulfill that desire. At work, as someone else noted, "Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft."
apotheon, thanks for the LUG link. Unfortunately, of the five groups in SC, two had web sites over three years old, two said they were trying to reorganize, and the only active group was over three hours away (and based at a university again). South Carolina isn't noted as a high-tech hot spot, and there appears to be a lack of professional interest here.
Thanks guys.
I think we can agree that Microsoft's marketing department is the main reason for their large installation base, whether it's truly the most popular or not. The average home user wants a box he can fire right up with minimal effort, and he is willing to pay a premium for this perceived convenience. Microsoft has done the best job of convincing consumers that a computer running their products will fulfill that desire. At work, as someone else noted, "Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft."
apotheon, thanks for the LUG link. Unfortunately, of the five groups in SC, two had web sites over three years old, two said they were trying to reorganize, and the only active group was over three hours away (and based at a university again). South Carolina isn't noted as a high-tech hot spot, and there appears to be a lack of professional interest here.
Thanks guys.
in US a large percent and in many other countries, majority of windoze installs are pirated. combine this with a wish to conform; and nice visual OS make it easy to use. novell went down the tubes even tho it was more stable as they didn't want to redo their utils visually.
(this is a marvelous book that explains m$ success and failures of dbase, wordperfect, novell despite -at times- good product):
In Search of Stupidity: Over 20 Years of High-Tech Marketing Disasters
by Merrill R. Chapman
Apress ? 2003 (268 pages)
ISBN:1590591046
(this is a marvelous book that explains m$ success and failures of dbase, wordperfect, novell despite -at times- good product):
In Search of Stupidity: Over 20 Years of High-Tech Marketing Disasters
by Merrill R. Chapman
Apress ? 2003 (268 pages)
ISBN:1590591046
Don't forget illegal contracts and illegal linking of advertising dollars to good technical reviews (both were adjudicated in the late 80's and mid 90's). Most people don't remember, for example, that the original working name of IBM OS/2 was Windows 4 and when IBM rolled it out they were bashed for shipping buggy software. MS shipped Windows 95 two years later and it was hailed as a gret leap forward with ten times the bug list.
Before everyone starts trashing back - I do use and support Windows but also have used most of the alternatives at one time or another. Each has some strengths and weaknesses. We now choose to accept the weaknesses of Windows.
Before everyone starts trashing back - I do use and support Windows but also have used most of the alternatives at one time or another. Each has some strengths and weaknesses. We now choose to accept the weaknesses of Windows.
Well, to all of you window bashers or lovers..
In 70's there was a new tool for consumers, called VCR. Had two options, VHS and BETA. Even Beta's quality was much better then VHS, VHS won the war. All windows bashers had one VHS vcr at home. WHY?....MARKETING!....Windows did better marketing at the right time so they rule the world. So be it and keep it quiet even if you don't like it. If you feel sorry for yourself then go to your mom's basement(where you are still living) and watch "Star Wars" or "Nepoleon Dynamite". Bur god's sake stop being stop being a pseudo-geek.
In 70's there was a new tool for consumers, called VCR. Had two options, VHS and BETA. Even Beta's quality was much better then VHS, VHS won the war. All windows bashers had one VHS vcr at home. WHY?....MARKETING!....Windows did better marketing at the right time so they rule the world. So be it and keep it quiet even if you don't like it. If you feel sorry for yourself then go to your mom's basement(where you are still living) and watch "Star Wars" or "Nepoleon Dynamite". Bur god's sake stop being stop being a pseudo-geek.
Beta was proprietary to Sony and was too expensive because there were no clones. Similar to Apple....
True!!! Sony wanted $100 royalty fee per beta deck made.
While JVC just wanted a couple of $ per deck.
While JVC just wanted a couple of $ per deck.
It's bloody simple to learn and decipher. With a reasonably sharp mind and 6 months experience under your belt, you can fix anything in Windows....that's why. (not to mention extremely good marketing)..
earth to go back to your planet could you please drop me off on Mars.
MS doesn't manage to fix faults in windows in six months !
A bit of FUD is expected from both sides, but thats way too much.
MS doesn't manage to fix faults in windows in six months !
A bit of FUD is expected from both sides, but thats way too much.
Windows is popular because it appeals to the end-user.
That's basically the outcome of years of advertising and marketing. Hey, why don't we include Apple in the Mix. Apple is also in the Unix family, why isn't the Mac OS as popular? Hmm... price. So why isn't Microsoft unstoppable? Because developers for the Windows OS is getting a fatter pay check than open-source developers. Compare regular pay checks to a PayPal slip. So who's winning? I think it's both.. applications developed and maintained in the Windows arena is being further enhanced by the Open-source. Fueled by the eagerness to make the best free. Open-source development is gaining mass popularity. One day... Microsoft will yield. But when that happens, Mr. Gates would have infinite resources to perhaps... buy world peace.
That's basically the outcome of years of advertising and marketing. Hey, why don't we include Apple in the Mix. Apple is also in the Unix family, why isn't the Mac OS as popular? Hmm... price. So why isn't Microsoft unstoppable? Because developers for the Windows OS is getting a fatter pay check than open-source developers. Compare regular pay checks to a PayPal slip. So who's winning? I think it's both.. applications developed and maintained in the Windows arena is being further enhanced by the Open-source. Fueled by the eagerness to make the best free. Open-source development is gaining mass popularity. One day... Microsoft will yield. But when that happens, Mr. Gates would have infinite resources to perhaps... buy world peace.
"Fueled by the eagerness to make the best free. Open-source development is gaining mass popularity."
I don't understand why anyone would create quality code but not want to get compensated for their labor. If the quality of your programming is so good others want to use it, and you enjoy doing it enough to do it for free, why not get paid for your efforts? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the idea of working for free, but I honestly don't understand why you would do it. Programming isn't like working with Habitat for Humanity or feeding the homeless. (I also don't understand why anyone would want to benefit from someone else's labor but feel exempt from compensating them for it, but software piracy is -really- way off topic.)
Mr. Gates uses part of his near-infinite resources to perhaps... buy world health (among other charitable works). Please see http://www.billandmelindagates.org
I don't understand why anyone would create quality code but not want to get compensated for their labor. If the quality of your programming is so good others want to use it, and you enjoy doing it enough to do it for free, why not get paid for your efforts? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the idea of working for free, but I honestly don't understand why you would do it. Programming isn't like working with Habitat for Humanity or feeding the homeless. (I also don't understand why anyone would want to benefit from someone else's labor but feel exempt from compensating them for it, but software piracy is -really- way off topic.)
Mr. Gates uses part of his near-infinite resources to perhaps... buy world health (among other charitable works). Please see http://www.billandmelindagates.org
there are packages that have small price tags attached. This is usually for some form of support. It gets you from paying $180 for an OS today that is worth NOTHING in four years. You pay for services as needed, when needed.
There really are business models where you can make money with open source. If you ever get a chance, listen to Eric S Raymond talk. Read "The Cathedral & the Bazaar" for starters.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/
There really are business models where you can make money with open source. If you ever get a chance, listen to Eric S Raymond talk. Read "The Cathedral & the Bazaar" for starters.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/
Most of the end users who have just say 5% knowledge of computers are comfertable with windows as the GUI of windows is very user friendly.The day Linux or for that instance any other Operating system makes its GUI as user friendly as Windows the craze of Windows is going to reduce. Maximum High end users like any servers prefer using Linux as it is an open sourse and can be modified as per your requirement and also it is much more secure than windows with it's IP tables. Moreover Windows is mostly effected by piracy then any other OS!
Please, please, please let me be the first one to post that Apple had a user-friendly GUI years before Microsoft, one many regard as friendlier than Windows. The GUI wasn't enough to overcome Apple's proprietary hardware policies and limited developer support.
In fact, MacOS X is proof that it's easier to make unix pretty than it is to make Windows stable and secure.
Most people want to stay in their comfort zone, not daring to venture out and test new waters. Like AOL, MS preys on the not so savy and relies on marketing, bells and whistles and whatever else to keep the majority of the masses (the ones who like the comfort zone).
Comparing Windows to AOL, simply brilliant. Same martketing strategy. I love it.
When Sun introduced Unix for 386 workstations, they had a chance to pull ahead of the BSD/XENIX crowd and become the dominant desktop OS. At the time, Windows 3.0 (then 3.1) was just getting popular. When Sun dropped their 386 product because they didn't want to support a third hardware platform, they ceeded first place to MS. They had the opportunity to set a single binary API that could have been overwhelmingly popular. Bell Labs/AT&T couldn't productize UNIX successfully, Sun wouldn't, and the result was the Tower of *nix Babel.
Sun was right that the network is the system, but they forgot that clients create the need...
Sun was right that the network is the system, but they forgot that clients create the need...
That's very much the case.
Of course, about the same time that Windows 3.x and BSD were hitting the PC market, Linux was as well. Frankly, I'm happy that such a vibrant and open development community has grown around it, and if it wasn't for the advantageous characteristics of Linux (such as very efficient and effective hardware polling during install and boot), we'd probably not have the open source community that now exists. If Sun dominated the 386 market as they could have, Sun would be what Microsoft now is instead, but there likely wouldn't have been the same challenge.
On the other hand, BSD might have filled the void left by the absence of a Linux if Sun had grabbed the corporate top-dog spot, because BSD would have become easier to stomach for pointy-haired bosses if the major player on the PC was another unix instead of Windows.
Of course, about the same time that Windows 3.x and BSD were hitting the PC market, Linux was as well. Frankly, I'm happy that such a vibrant and open development community has grown around it, and if it wasn't for the advantageous characteristics of Linux (such as very efficient and effective hardware polling during install and boot), we'd probably not have the open source community that now exists. If Sun dominated the 386 market as they could have, Sun would be what Microsoft now is instead, but there likely wouldn't have been the same challenge.
On the other hand, BSD might have filled the void left by the absence of a Linux if Sun had grabbed the corporate top-dog spot, because BSD would have become easier to stomach for pointy-haired bosses if the major player on the PC was another unix instead of Windows.
1.] mICROSOFT IS MORE EASILY INSTALLED AND MAINTAINED !!{2.}MORE COST EFFICINT IN THAT A NORMAL DIE HARD CAN INSTALL IT!![4]MICROSOFTS UPDATE IS MORE EFFICIENT FOR HOME BUSINESS AND PERSONEL USER'S....{5}OHH YES LET,S NOT FORGET....THEY ARE GIVING AWAY TRIALS BY THE 100'S...HEHEHE FOR PPL LIKE ME TO CRASH...PS I STARTED XP 1ST UPDATE!!!!ASK RON VAN FOSSEN!!
out, but I'd suggest sticking to the correct dosage from now on.
What happened to 3.] by the way ?
I'm very close to my screen so there's no need to shout back with an answer.
What happened to 3.] by the way ?
I'm very close to my screen so there's no need to shout back with an answer.
IF WE LOOK CLOSE {ALL}OP,S HAVE STARTED WITH BASIC BSD PRINCIPLES.....{FREEWARE}
The nerd talk about Windows vs the World seems to miss the point that users are no more interested in their operating system than their car engine. Any OS is at best a necessary evil! Only applications matter. Retraining - however 'trivial' - costs a fortune and untold miseries. Stability, possibility of running any old application (try that with the Mac!) and plenty of people to ask for help if stuck are the reasons for the dominance of Windows.
You need look no further...
You need look no further...
You're so close to getting this right, but your string of reasoning breaks down as you hit the conclusions part.
Stability, possibility of running any old application, and plenty of people to ask for help if stuck are the reasons that Linux is gaining market share. Lack of stability, compatibility issues (many of them intentional), and the difficulty of getting competent help with real problems in Windows are the reasons that Windows is losing market share.
Stability, possibility of running any old application, and plenty of people to ask for help if stuck are the reasons that Linux is gaining market share. Lack of stability, compatibility issues (many of them intentional), and the difficulty of getting competent help with real problems in Windows are the reasons that Windows is losing market share.
Interesting - You make it sound as if Linux could run people's old dBase booking systems or accounting packages or whatever still lives on in the real world. I have had customers with 20 year old DOS-based applications which will only be retired (very painfully and at great cost) when the person herself retires. Windows XP runs them flawlessly.
I imagine you haven't heard of things like DOS emulators for Linux if you think the only way to run DOS-based applications on new hardware is with WinXP.
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