Discussion on:

Novell's Linux strategy worries some customers

I was worried about Novell getting rid of NetWare, but then I realized that don?t use NetWare. I use the services that run on NetWare and the platform is not central to the services. So I decided that this is the best thing that Novell has done in years. The move away from the NetWare Kernel decouples the services from the Kernel this will allow more choices in hardware platforms.

My opinion is the NetWare Kernel will go away within five years and good riddance. (As a note I?m a current CNE and have been since 3.11) As far as the services GroupWise is not going away it is their premier collaboration platform with over 30 million users? world wide. It is Novell?s third largest income stream. And 65% of those users are on the latest version. The next release will be fully implemented on Linux, Netware and Windows. As a note Novell does not sell Open Enterprise server it was released to a European company.

Novell is migrating all of the services to Linux. So the only this that you lose is the NetWare Kernel. But what we are getting is a new world of choice, and a platform that will allow more applications to be developed on more platforms.

My recommendation is to embrace Linux and Open Enterprise Server. It is a future that is bright. And a company that is now in a position to return to the forefront of networking

While some may mourn the passing of the NetWare OS, I think that Novell is smart to change their focus to the multiplatform services arena as they have been doing for a while now. The shift of focus to Linux as the MS giant killer is Novell's only choice really if they wish to maintain a foothold in the server OS realm.

As for GroupWise, I'm not certain there, demand for it may continue to decline depending on if Novell can get it's marketing act together or not. I agree that Novell won't willingly let go of it, and they shouldn't, but I think it's future is still cloudy, though the switch to open source platform support is a great hedge on their part...

On the technical side; hopefully Novell does a better job rewriting the GroupWise code for Linux than they did for NetWare considering most GroupWise components still run better on Windows servers than it does on a NetWare box after all these years.

I've run GroupWise on NetWare since day one and have never had a significat issue. I know systems that have 18000 users and 90 servers around the world. Windows has it share of issues especially when microsoft tries to break your code.

I've worked with GroupWise for many years for many different clients and employers, it was originally written to run on Windows and when Novell purchased it from WP they ported it to the NetWare platform.

Of course, the porting of the code wasn't really done well and as a matter of fact there are still telltale marks that GroupWise used to be another company's product, (ever wonder why the queue directories start with WP?)

I remember when they released the SMTP Gateway (before it was called GWIA), that piece would hang all the time on NetWare, it was so bad that Novell itself started to recommend that the agent be run on the Windows platforms. Same thing happened with the WebAccess agent as well, still to this day it's common practice to put Webaccess, or at least a few parts of it, on a Windows server because it's still so problematic on Netware. (I work at a client site using 6.5.3 and the INSO viewers are still a beast on NetWare boxes.)

Mind you, I want Novell to succeed as much as the next guy, maybe more... When a company like MS is SO massive that it's dividend payouts can massively alter the national income statistics of the US then something is horribly wrong. But even that desire shouldn't cloud the truth of the technical matters we discuss.

Good luck to you.

well since I am a linux person, if novell manages to get everything running right on linux, and I have need of it I may check it out.

but linux has built into it most of the services that novell offers, linux has the option of including support for novell netware services as is.

novell may be making a mistake in moving to linux as most linux systems don't need anything novell offers.

there are numerous means of collaberation for linux already, most open source and free. ( CVS most common )

what is the incentive to move from existing software on my linux systems to novell's system?
to spend more money?
(free existing software to purchase software)

ssh for data transfer, nfs for share in network, yp for additional security, all coming with a standard distro.
cvs can easily be configured to require ssh connection, which limits access to registered users.

the move makes sense in some ways, but not in others as competing against fairly standard free software isn't going to be easy.

To those with some Linux savvy or even a modicum of technical aptitude it may appear that Linux does indeed need nothing that Novell could offer it. (whether Novell needs Linux is another side of the issue though).

However, for the enterprize, oft filled with a technically challenged user base, Linux still has many needs. The big plus for both Novell and Linux in this marriage is the added support for ported Novell products on a Linux platform (server and desktop) like GroupWise, for example.

GroupWise is a familiar piece of software to the user base in companies already using it, so having that portion of heavily relied upon code ported to linux client and server side would alleviate some migration woes should you decide to move towards an open source solution.

Add to that the interoperability tools Novell has to offer, like eDirectory and it's cross platform identity management tools, then you have a really good transitory base for a migration from all platforms or even a great base for a mixed environment that includes Linux as a major player.

Even if you don't agree with me about Novell having anything to offer Linux in a technical aspect, you have to consider the additional marketing and perception boost that will occur if Novell drops it's flagship platform in a switch to Linux.

since I'm all open source already, and am completely comfortable with the existing tools.

my point about novell is from the viewpoint of those already using linux, and the open source software exclusivly.

take a look at Xandros newest release for easy installation / configuration. it even runs ms orifice, outbreak and internet exploiter if you really want them.
since sybase ase is available for linux, ibm's enterprise servers, oracle, even borland's enterpise servers are available for linux, it's not actually lacking for full readiness for the Enterprise market.

where linux is lacking is the gaming department.
no-one has bothered to create the equivalent of ms activex ( force feedback for game controls design intent )

if an existing enterprise is already open source, what is the incentive to use novell?

postgresql is an open source enterprise level sql server, so it isn't even needfull to buy one of the one's mentioned above.
mysql isn't as secure in many respects as postgresql, though it is faster.

I agree that the move will benefit linux, and won't harm Novell's existing client base, but how does the move increase the client base ( benefit Novell )?
besides the obvious of being able to increase programmers working on groupwise etc by taking them from the netware kernel team.

I certainly agree that Novell's shift into Linux will not affect many people who have already embraced the open source movement, so there is no argument from me on that point.

I'm thinking more about those who don't have any Linux in house or have just been toying with the idea up to this point, at the very least having another large player shifting towards open source will provide an added push for those who are still wary, as you seem to agree as well.

But for this point...

"I agree that the move will benefit linux, and won't harm Novell's existing client base, but how does the move increase the client base ( benefit Novell )?
besides the obvious of being able to increase programmers working on groupwise etc by taking them from the netware kernel team."

To answer that I think we would have to embrace Microsoft's stated fears, (even if we may or may not believe that they are indeed worried about the open source movement). If Linux is indeed the potential giant killer that Microsoft supposedly perceives then Novell's move towards that rising platform and away from the declining NetWare base is Novell's best bet to stay in the back-end arena unless they decided to shift entirely over to supplying Microsoft based products, at which point you could count the big red N's days as numbered indeed.

So, between the choices of hanging on to the sinking NetWare battleship, (which has been bleeding marketshare to the Windows sharks for years), or selling it's soul to the MS Privateers, Novell instead opted to hop onboard the Linux boat. Really was the only choice they had to stay afloat I think.

I don't like the fact that they are killing Netware and accociated products without giving it a fighting chance. They are jumping ship onto the Linux platform - when there are still many who worry if Linux is as well suited and capabale for large scale enterprise handling as was Netware.

They seem to be abandining the NOS - when they don't seem to have given it a fighting chance. Development on it should have contuned for at least a few more years.

Open Enterprise Server is will include NetWare as well as SELS9 and all services. Novell is not killing any services the are continuing to migrate all of the services to multiple platforms. They are comtinuing the OneNet Vision in that it is allowing you the freedom of choice and not tying you into an OS. The OES NetWare is essentially NetWare 7. The product manager states the the development of NetWare will continue, though it's evolution will take on many feature that will merge NetWare and Linux features. So Novell isn't abandoning NetWare even though that is the message that comes across. The Roadmap for OES is two generations out and still includes NetWare.

. . . you just don't like Linux.

The minute Novell announced that it will be moving away from the legacy Netware kernel built in C++ and Java to a Linux based kernel, Novell started to see a mass exodus of their own clients engaging Microsoft for a quick escape route because the idea of running Linux and opensource in a corporate environment just didn't sit too well with the CTO and IT department staff. Novell has disenfranchised many of their own customers by forcing Linux down their throats, whether the customers wanted to or not. I have built an entire career that revolved around supporting legacy Netware products all the way up to OES Netware 6.5, but I'll be damned if I touch anything having to do with Suse Linux or opensource. I've since retrained as an MCSE and won't even touch Novell products because they nearly cost me my career because I couldn't find work supporting Novell systems due to the heavy market shift towards MS products.

Many companies that have heard about linux and all the advantages doen't make that leap because they just don't know where to start or how to make a switch.

Novell is starting a push to migrate people off their MS based network to a linux, from the server to the desktop.

While many people here would not "need" Novell to do what they do, it is giving a potential customer a box they can pay for and have work.

I can see that, until you concider:

I have a novell system it works, if I don't buy new linux version my people don't need to learn new os.

or

I have windows networking only, why learn 2 new systems, netware and linux?


I am all for the move, but I can't see it making a huge difference financially for them.
one of the drawbacks for corporate use of linux has been the lack of a decent security rating for the os. suse has the best yet. ( owned by novell -- go figure )
I can see that argument for using netware on linux with netware being security tools for the os.
the builtin networking tools in linux are faster than novell's networking. besides being kernel based instead of user-space.

it really depends on what they do with it, and how they market it.

What Novell on Linux provides is a single-vendor integrated software solution. A lot of people in the corporate world feel more comfortable with that than they do with the piecemeal "one tool, one job well" approach of Linux (and unices in general). I think Novell is likely to do a bang-up job of bringing the single-vendor integrated software solution option on a Linux platform to a lot of people, and that's a good thing.

While I believe that the more traditionally Unixy way of doing things (using the right tools for the job and getting them wherever you find them rather than playing the single-vendor game) is superior, a lot of people don't. They'll be more inclined to use the integrated Novell software solution, and in time they may learn a new way of doing things but at least Novell will provide a good, solid solution for them in the meantime.

because they are forcefully shoving Linux down the throats of companies with established legacy Netware 5.x and 6.x systems built upon the C++ kernel. When GroupWise 7 was first released, Novell was bragging about how nicely it runs on an OES Linux cluster, but when asked to cite a current Novell customer that had a successful deployment of GroupWise 7 running on a Suse Linux cluster, they couldn't point to a single one. Novell expects their customers to be guinea pig beta testers for them, yet cannot admit that they are pushing a product and technology that has not been proven to be mature because not one of their customers is running it in that setup? Sure, I've clustered GroupWise 6.x on Netware 6.x clusters, but I have yet to see GroupWise run on a cluster in a Linux environment.