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Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

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We have a two location network
connected via T1. The main location has
an NT Stand-alone server that has basic
shares for users. The remote location is
subnetted through two routers on either
side of the T1.

My question is how to get the remote
subnet computers (WIN98) to see the NT
server in the main location. We have tried
setting up LMHosts on the WIN98
machines for a static route though it does
not seem to work.

The IP traffic routes fine. We can ping the
machines from any direction. The remote
machines can access the internet
through a main location router connected
to a DSL line. But the remote machines
cannot see any Windows services.

We have installed WINS on the NT but it
does not seem to broadcast the Windows
information to the subnet. The remote
WIN98 computers have their network
properties set to the IP of the WINS
server, but they cannot see it.

Must the NT be PDC to run WINS? Is
there some setup in WINS to broadcast to
the subnet?

Topic

Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

In reply to Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

No, a server does not need to be a PDC to run the WINS service. WIN’s is not broadcast based. One of the main purposes of WINS is to reduce broadcast traffic. If you want to browse other subnets, you need to set up a WINS server on each subnet and configure them as Push and Pull partners.

Note, when you configure a client to look to a WINS server for name to IP resolution, the client is a “hybrid” node type, meaning, it will attemp to resolve name/IP by first polling the WINS server, then if theres no reply it will attempt name/IP resolution through a broadcast.

Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

In reply to Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

This answers part of my question whether running the WINS ion a standalonew server is acceptable.

However, setting up another WINS server on the subnet is not an option sincve we do not have another server there. We just need the WIN98 clients on the remote side of the subnet to be able to browse the network and see the standalone server on the main side of the net.

Another pice of inforamtion is that in examining the requests of the WINS server, I see that of the 1000+ requests that have been made, all have failed.

Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

In reply to Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

Try going into start – Run on the win9x box and typing

\\ipaddress

where ip address is the ip of the nt server
eg
\\192.168.0.1

this should bring up the file shares on the server. As well, you must make sure that the share is sharedto “Everyone” or that the user is a member of the domain or that the user has the same username / password as someone on the domain.

Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

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This request does not display the list of shares. The user(s) do have the permissions to see the server and access the shares because they can access the same shares through SFM on the Macs we have in the remote site.

As far as the domain goes, I think with a standalone server the term theyt use is WORKGROUP, right? Does the WIN98 client need to be on the same WORKGROUP as the standalone server in order to browse the netwoork with WINS? I thought that WINS was supposed to tell the client subscribed to it what the list of the available network devices are.

We have tried setting the client to the same WORKGROUP as the server with WINS still running and the WIN98 client still comes up with the ‘Can’t browse network’ in the net neighborhood.

This makes me thing think that there is some other WINS configuration necessary on the server or client that isn’t there. Since the network is really quite simple, what other config might be necessary?

It might help to know that the WINS server shows 1000+ requests all of which show failed.

Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

In reply to Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

Workgroups can’t browse across subnets. Only domains can. You won’t be able to browse to your server through Network Neighborhood because the master browse list for the workgroup will not be transmitted across your routers.

You should be able to connect to resources on your remote server, though. Your failed WINS queries may indicate the source of that connection problem.

I don’t know how complicated your WINS entries are, but you might try deleting all static and dynamic mappings on your WINS server then rebooting the server so it can automatically reregister itself in its own WINS DB. After the reboot, try to connect from the remote client via the NET START \\ServerIPorName command. You should then be able to see the shares on your server. You should also be able to map network drives by typing in the \\ServerIPorName\sharename in the Map dialog.

See these KB articles:
Q149941 – Windows Clients Not Able to Browse Remote Workgroups
Q117633 – How Browsing a Wide Area Network Works

Search the KB for MASTER BROWSE and WINS BROWSE to find many other relevant articles.

P.S. The NT box does not have to be a PDC to run WINS, but you do need a PDC if you want to browse across subnets – with or without WINS.

If you rebuild as a PDC, instructions for making your WAN browsing work are in Q148527 – Windows 95 Can Share the Windows NT Domain Browse List.
Also read
Q150800 – Domain Browsing with TCP/IP and LMHOSTS Files

You could also use RAS services – anotherstory entirely.

Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

In reply to Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

Please disregard the duplicate posting below. My mistake.

Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

In reply to Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

The question was auto-closed by TechRepublic

Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

In reply to Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

Workgroups can’t browse across subnets. Only domains can. You won’t be able to browse to your server through Network Neighborhood because the master browse list for the workgroup will not be transmitted across your routers.

You should be able to connect to resources on your remote server, though. Your failed WINS queries may indicate the source of that connection problem.

I don’t know how complicated your WINS entries are, but you might try deleting all static and dynamic mappings on your WINS server then rebooting the server so it can automatically reregister itself in its own WINS DB. After the reboot, try to connect from the remote client via the NET START \\ServerIPorName command. You should then be able to see the shares on your server. You should also be able to map network drives by typing in the \\ServerIPorName\sharename in the Map dialog.

See these KB articles:
Q149941 – Windows Clients Not Able to Browse Remote Workgroups
Q117633 – How Browsing a Wide Area Network Works

Search the KB for MASTER BROWSE and WINS BROWSE to find many other relevant articles.

P.S. The NT box does not have to be a PDC to run WINS, but you do need a PDC if you want to browse across subnets – with or without WINS.

If you rebuild as a PDC, instructions for making your WAN browsing work are in Q148527 – Windows 95 Can Share the Windows NT Domain Browse List.
Also read
Q150800 – Domain Browsing with TCP/IP and LMHOSTS Files

You could also use RAS services – anotherstory entirely.

Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

In reply to Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

Yes the WIN98 clients should be able to connect to the NT standalone server with WINS, but they cannot access it. The failed WINS queries may be pointing to the problem, but where exactly might the connection issue be? The configuration?

Again, we can access all services on that machine _except_ the Windows-based ones.

No matter what we try, including the net start stuff, the system returns that “The network name cannot be found.”

Should the NT box be set up to be a domain regardless that it is a stand-alone server? We have it currently as a name and a workgroup. But I notice from network properties > identification > change that you can specify that the server is a member of a domain.

Does the domain have to be already created? And this just logs on like any other NT client? Or does it set up the domain even though it is _not_ a PDC?

Does the remote WIN98 client have to have the network properties > client for microsoft networks properties ‘Log on to NT Domain’ checked to work though WINS?

Why can I ping the darn machine and use all other services via TCP/IP but not Windows services? And the WINS queries all fail? Arg!

Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

In reply to Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

WINS-query is a unicast packet, meaning it has a destination and is able to traverse routers. Broadcasts, the default panic-name-resolution, cannot traverse routers. You said you can ping by IP, this has established connectivity. When you ping by name, from your remote machines, do you get the error message “Bad IP address %name%”?

Since you have WINS running, make sure in the TCP/IP properties of your NIC, of your remote machines, that there is a WINS entry, it can be the same for both Primary and Secondary(workaround for MS bug.) Also make sure that your have typed in the domain name for your workgroup name (Upper-case, please). Make sure that your WINS server is pointing to itself for the Primary and Secondary WINS server (another MS bug workaround). These three steps eliminate WINS issues. If you want to use a lmhosts file, make sure to include this:

x.x.x.x %servername% #PRE #DOMAIN:domainname
x.x.x.x “domainname,,,,,\0x1b” #PRE

The above IP’s should be the same and the second line should have the quotes and the five commas.
Between the WINS suggestions and the lmhosts, that will cover 99% of the troubleshooting. If all else fails, make sure ports 137-139 are open on the router!!!

Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

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When I ping by name, it does work. But it is looking for the DNS name using ping. DNS is running on that server and it deos return the correct IP. But I need WINS to resolve the machine name to see the shares.

WINS is configured as you sayabove with one exception. On WIN98, you do not haver the opportunity to enter a primary and secondary WINS server. Only addresses. So the correct address is in there.

Again, I can see that the WINS server is getting queries, but they are failing. Should the WINS option of using DNS be set to on? Could this have an effect on the WINS queries?

I would configure the LMHOSTS as you show, but we cannot use the DOMAIN tag. Remember, this is a standalone server. I do not believe you can access it within a domain.

Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

In reply to Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

You have TCP/IP connectivity working fine. Your WINS problems appear to be irrelevant to the problem you are trying to solve. You can use WINS, LMHOSTS, or DNS with equally satisfying (or frustrating) results. As I attempted to explain in my first answer, you need a PDC.

Workgroups cannot span routers. Even if you use the same workgroup name on each side of the router, Windows will treat them as two separate workgroups.

If you want to be able to browse across the WAN from Windows 95 PCs, there MUST be a Windows NT domain on one side of the WAN or the other. Your single standalone server must be a PDC for a domain – you will not solve your problem unless you rebuild your server as a PDC (or add another NT server that is configured as a PDC, then add your existing standalone server to that domain).

After you have established a domain at the server end, place the Win95 machines in a workgroup with the same name as the NT domain. You will also need to tell at least one of your Win95 machines to maintain a browser list. I recommend that you configure all of them to be automatic browse masters.

It is actually very helpful to convert at least one of your Win95 boxes to NT Workstation. The default configuration of NT works very well as a browse master on remote WAN segments. 95 is more quirky.

Make sure that you leave the NetBIOS ports 127-129 open on your routers as well, or you will still not be able to connect.

The WINS failures are probably due to looking for an identically named workgroup across the WAN when the workgroups are not actually identical in Windows’ eyes. The bright side of this problem is that once you have created your domain on the server end, you will probably see your WINS failures disappear as well.

The articles I mentioned in the first post are still relevant here for more details.

Accessing NT over subnet T1 from Win98

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