Discussions

Arrogance of clients who expect free afterhours support from contractors

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Arrogance of clients who expect free afterhours support from contractors

Big Ole Jack
Am I wrong in my annoyance and disgust with corporate mentality in their treating hourly consultants and contractors as salaried employees? As consultants, every hour onsite is billable and any support outside of normal business hours is also billable. I am angered and downright insulted when I see contractors being called at 1:00am for support, bill the client for it, and then the client balks and refuses to pay. Note to corporate beancounters and idiots in HR: Consultants and contractors are NOT employees, and get paid by the hour. If you wake them up at 3:00am for a problem that they don't fix until 7:00am, expect to get billed for 44 hours worth of work. When I was working as an independent contractor, I made it pretty loud and clear that if I don't get paid for performing afterhours work, I will cease to show up altogether and resort to outside collection methods if they think I work for free. Is it just me, or have any of you been through such stupidity as well? Also, I bet these are the same companies that combine what should be 4 positions into one and offer the salary of one position. Cheap bastards!
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    Locrian_Lyric

    But I've been there too.

    A certain NY based Financial company with a bull as their logo was FAMOUS for doing that.

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    0 Votes
    Big Ole Jack

    Typical of financial firms and especially law firms. Until you threaten them with collections, they won't budge.

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    Locrian_Lyric

    That company had another neat rider for consultants...

    75% of your rate if you went over 40hrs for each hr over 40.

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    0 Votes
    Big Ole Jack

    Whereas some greedy firms think that contractors work for free after 40hrs. I'd simply avoid working after 40hrs if I knew I'd be getting stiffed on the billable hours, or even better, stipulate my billable hours and conditions before the project starts. Negotiations are a two way street and if they think they're getting cheap labor, they're very wrong.

    +
    0 Votes

    "Negotiations are a two way street and if they think they're getting cheap labor, they're very wrong."

    Don't give them the opportunity to assume. Bring to the table your terms and ensure they are reflected in the contract. Include expectations for work that falls outside the scope of the contract as well as a work schedule.

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    Big Ole Jack

    I told him that I am not interested (for obvious reasons) and even if I were desperately looking for work, I wouldn't go near Merrill Lynch with a 10 foot pole.

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    0 Votes
    Locrian_Lyric

    When the EVPs confide in you that they're looking elsewhere for work....

    MMMMMMMMMMMMM.... not a good thing.

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    0 Votes
    Big Ole Jack

    because people run out of there screaming in agony at the politics and bullcrap going around. This position will be advertised for another 2 years because they won't be able to retain anyone in this position for more than a few weeks.

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    0 Votes
    CONTACTS

    To the author:
    With all understanding to your frustration
    I would recommend against blacklabeling any big company for bad experience with one/two of their managers - there are hundreds of other managers among whom there are honest people. Otherwise company wouldn't get to the top.
    So please don't help people who didn't pay you to ruin a reputation of a company that is a place to work for thousands. It will not help you and it definitely will damage the reputation of the company.

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    0 Votes
    jpb

    It is an entirely different situation when there is only one or two isolated managers who operate like this. Many companies deserve to have their reputations tarnished, because of broad policies that specifically dictate this approach to contractors.

    +
    0 Votes
    Big Ole Jack

    for support beyond 40 hours. And, if they make an issue of it, I repeat the same line I do to everyone else..."You no pay..I no play!". Consultants are not corporate slave employees, so if you want our support, expect to get a bill. I doubt doctors and lawyers offer free services out of the goodness of their hearts, because they will bill you for every hour of them time. Contractors are no different!

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    OldER Mycroft

    No Workey.

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    0 Votes
    Big Ole Jack

    I couldn't have said it better myself.

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    0 Votes
    mjd420nova

    The very top of the front page states the monetary obligations for services rendered. Really simple, A $125. callout fee with $105 an hour witha one hour minimum. Hours over 8 per day are 150 % the regular rate. Also included is the mileage rate and charges for meals and lodging should the travel be over 150 miles from my office. Holidays are at 150% of regular and should it be after 40 hours, it is 250% regular rate. I don't mind getting those calls in the middle of the night, it's the ones who will wake me and expect me to diagnose over the phone for free. I might be good, but not that good.

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    0 Votes

    Yep

    Tig2

    And I have defined in my contract just exactly what that expectation looks like and what it costs.

    I have never had the problem of being asked to work in my down time as a contractor or consultant. The language of the contract protects me.

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    0 Votes
    Big Ole Jack

    What's even more insulting is that they continue with such behavior, knowing full well that they won't get anything unless they pay for the service.

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    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    Was from people who didn't realize that I got paid no matter what. They just knew that I was the IT Guy and called no matter what.

    Now I try Remote Access to repair some machines or I'll go out there whenever. **** I get paid no matter what and now that my first option is to remotely access the computers they all expect to get billed from the moment that the phone rings till I go back to sleep.

    They don't even complain when I'm Power Napping when I've been on site over a day. They all know that they get billed from the moment that I arrive or wake up after hours till I either leave or get home depending on when they called me out.

    Col

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    0 Votes
    lgomez

    Little background. I am a Mexican, living in Mexico who does consulting jobs in the US. Let me tell you this, US is heaven!!!. For what I read some of you will not stand a single week doing consulting in Mexico. DO NOT START BLAMING. Understand, there is a lot of underpayed, overworked managers out there. They expect you to give at least the same "effort" as them (mainly because you are making more money than them). I am not saying that it is rigth or if I like it, it just the way it is. This is true for a lot of Companies in Mexico either they are Mexican, American, European or Japanese.

    All of the above means that I am used to it, so when I get a contract in the US, its just honey. This is what I do just to get a good spirit. 40 working hours per week, 4 extra hours free of charge only if request is on paper and I am on site. After that everything is 200%.

    It is very important to have the free time stated on the contract. When they say you -"We need to finish this, can you stay a little longer?", I say "Of course!!!, just let me print the FORM". You handle the free time form to the manager. This send a very strong message to the him/her. "I am pretty serious about my contract hours, even for the free ones".

    Are you worried to give your work for free? Can your customer take an 8-10% increase in your hour rate?

    Make a little math.

    Everyone wants "free stuff", even if they have to pay for it.

    Regards,

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    0 Votes
    techrepublic

    An exchange of e-mails should be sufficient to form a binding contract.

    Also, make it clear that the decision was theirs, not yours. For example, you might inform them "My contracted working hours are 09:00 to 18:00. I can start to investigate your problem at 09:00. If you wish me to start work before then, please send me a message confirming that you authorise overtime payments according to my standard terms and conditions."

    You may be interested to learn that the other side of the Atlantic, the European Court of Justice has ruled that time "on call" - i.e. when you are expected to answer the phone - constitutes working time, even if they don't call.

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    0 Votes
    robin

    On Call equates to "working time" . . . wow !
    Do you have more detail - I would like to use it to poke a stick at some folk I know ;-)

    Reason I ask is that the articles I found related to actual on-site presence to be regarded as working time. I didn't find the reference to "standby" time.

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    0 Votes
    egpor95

    Actually courts in the U.S. have held that MANDATED standby time for an EMPLOYEE is generally payable, although a lower scale is acceptable in those cases. The KEY is, EMPLOYEE. For an independent contractor it is strictly a matter of "whats in YOUR contract?"
    Gene Y.

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    0 Votes
    techrepublic

    The European Working Time Directive defines working time as follows:
    "working time shall mean any period during which the worker is working, at the employer's disposal and carrying out his activity or duties, in accordance with national laws and/or practice".

    The ECJ ruled that a doctor on call (Dr Norbert Jaeger, Kiel Hospital, Germany) satisfied this definition. n.b. Dr Jaeger wasn't asking to be paid extra for the period; he wished to assert his right not to work more than 40 hours in a week (a statutory right throughout the European Union).

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    0 Votes
    Locrian_Lyric

    I don't think I've ever worked less than 45

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    0 Votes
    Shellbot

    other than the wee bit of overtime here and there, which i take as time off rather than pay..in the past 8 years i have never worked more than 37.5 hours a week.

    thank you EU :)

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    0 Votes
    Locrian_Lyric

    I've done as much as 70-80hr weeks.

    When I worked for a financial company, my work day started at 5:30 am, when I called India from home, would continue when I got in the office at 7:30, when I'd check the email, at 8:00am(EST)I'd catch the UK as they were coming back from lunch...
    get home at around 7pm, hop on the phone to Japan at 9pm.

    and on Saturdays, disaster recovery exercises.

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    0 Votes
    Shellbot

    i couldn't take that..would burn out in a few months..

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    0 Votes
    scansite

    Hi,

    A couple of weeks ago I traveled from Holland
    to Germany for a job interview.

    The train trip took 8 hours in total, and the whole process cost me about 600 Dollars.

    I had the interview on Thursday and they promised me feedback the Monday or Tuesday after that.

    To make a long story short: Neither my agency
    or me heard anything during the whole of that week. Mind you, this is a company that sells Information Systems for Stock Exchanges
    all over the world.

    Decency is not a word in their dictionary.

    So, as you can see, contractors get fucked around in many different ways.

    Carl

    +
    0 Votes
    peter.leahey

    In today's workplace, where maximizing productivity gives managers/execs huge bonuses at the expense of workers, this is typical behavior. It is insane to expect people to work for nothing but it is a result of the GOP trickle down economics. However, I have also found many managers are literally insane, without any recall of conversations and replying to questions with answers to other questions. Also without any awareness of their previous comments.

    +
    0 Votes
    cabratt

    I am not a contractor but I work in a law office. As soon as they found out that I was certified and knew my way around computers, they never called a tech again. They think it's ok to call on me to fix everything in the small office and just get me a lunch every now and then. A nice bonus every now and then would go a long way. I don't mind helping any one but most of the time they don't listen anyway and I have to redo the fix!

    +
    0 Votes
    CIO at Alphabetas

    I would like to know how either parties politics have anything to do with this? Why does it seem people who are married to either major party never lose an opportunity to slip the knife in?
    Come on... demonstrate that link you made with real world logic- not the tortured logic of the 1 party systems backbiting we currently enjoy...

    +
    0 Votes
    Locrian_Lyric

    Party politics has nothing to do with this lunacy

    +
    0 Votes

    When I first started out in consulting I ran into this problem right away. I put in a lot of hours on the financial project I was on but never complained (though I should have). Finally, during the last big push I put in an extra 12 hours during this week and requested that my over time be paid for.

    Of course the manager would have nothing to do with it so I went to my recruiter and told him that I didn't think I was asking for all that much. He had me calculate how much over time I thought I had put into the entire project and surprisingly I was able to come up with a rough estimate that was legitimate.

    He got me money, the manager threw me off the project and I was sent to work for another client within a week.

    As far as financial companies are concerned, they are all horror houses to work in (I worked in financial for about 20 years.). They tend to attract the worst in our field since such working conditions require huge egos and the ability to blame everyone else for your own failures.

    +
    0 Votes
    Locrian_Lyric

    It seems that in the Financials, the ONLY way to survive is to be a total A$$.

    True story:

    IT guy does a great job.

    TWO managers go down and tell his boss how great and helpful he was.

    The following week, he was laid off.

    The union got his job back because it WAS unjustified (the old "you are making us look bad" bit)

    end result, he got his job back, but dropped his productivity to come more inline with the low standards of the shop.

    +
    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    Where the worse you are the faster you get promoted.

    These places reward stupidity and punish the real workers by refusing them the advances that they deserve. Only good thing that I've ever seen is that the real workers get away from the fools buy these fools are invariably replaced by more fools who will do as they are told.

    Col

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    0 Votes
    dfreeman

    I've been on both sides of this fence, and all I have to say is if you didn't take care of this in your contract, too bad. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

    The entire situation boils down to, you are a contractor, and right now, those are pretty easy to come by. A few years down the road and the pendulum will shift back the other way.

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    0 Votes
    Locrian_Lyric

    Oh, you can have wet between the ears Ashok from Mumbai who's been to Infosys's "Scamming 101" class, but REAL consultants.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

    good luck.

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    Eoghan

    Been there myself. Even had one guy tell me I should volunteer for unpaid overtime because that was how they picked the people they wanted to hire in. HA!

    I gently explained to him that the company was already winning because they paid me no benefits, because I had no paid holidays, etc, etc. He couldn't understand it.

    Let me also point out that this fellow as an Iraqi national, by birth, who had emigrated to the UK and became a UK citizen, they emigrated to the US and was working on becoming a US citizen. I asked him why he hadn't volunteered to go back to Iraq as an interpreter for the military and short cut the naturalization process. No answer.

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    JamesRL

    They exist.....

    ...if you want to break into Advertising, Brokerage, Movie production, even articling lawyers etc. etc. They hire lots of junior people at crap wages and expect them to do lots of unpaid OT to gain one of the few better paying spots in the future. In many cases less than half will make it in the industru.


    I'd like to think IT won't be one of those kinds of jobs.

    James

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    mccolloughc

    I'm playing devil's advocate, but this is based on actual experience with a consultant...

    Consultant John Doe developed a proprietary database that ran fine all day but when it rebooted at midnight, it required a password to get back in. A password he forgot to share with us.

    Should my company have to pay Consultant John Doe when we call him at midnight to obtain this password?

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    Fregeus

    The error was his, not yours. Therefore you have no reason to pay him for fixing his mistake.


    TCB

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    Oz_Media

    Though I don't offer such support now, I did until last year and I was always very clear about billable hours. When a contract is signed they have no recourse from that point forward. If I billed 4 hrs, they paid it, end of.

    In Canada, Bc particularly, if you call ANY employee at home, whether on salary or hourly wage, they are entitled to 2 hrs pay, even if for a 15 minute conversation. If you need then for 2hr and 1 minute, when at home they are entitled to 4 hrs pay.

    If yuo turn up for work and get sent straight home, 2 hrs pay.

    If you work for any portion of time when you are scheduled for 8 and are sent home (lack of work etc), 4 hrs pay.

    The government here backs employees and contractors BIG TIME, companies don't have a chance to screw people over when people know the employment standards.

    Companies here soon learn that you simply don't f**k a canuck.

  • +
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    Locrian_Lyric

    But I've been there too.

    A certain NY based Financial company with a bull as their logo was FAMOUS for doing that.

    +
    0 Votes
    Big Ole Jack

    Typical of financial firms and especially law firms. Until you threaten them with collections, they won't budge.

    +
    0 Votes
    Locrian_Lyric

    That company had another neat rider for consultants...

    75% of your rate if you went over 40hrs for each hr over 40.

    +
    0 Votes
    Big Ole Jack

    Whereas some greedy firms think that contractors work for free after 40hrs. I'd simply avoid working after 40hrs if I knew I'd be getting stiffed on the billable hours, or even better, stipulate my billable hours and conditions before the project starts. Negotiations are a two way street and if they think they're getting cheap labor, they're very wrong.

    +
    0 Votes

    "Negotiations are a two way street and if they think they're getting cheap labor, they're very wrong."

    Don't give them the opportunity to assume. Bring to the table your terms and ensure they are reflected in the contract. Include expectations for work that falls outside the scope of the contract as well as a work schedule.

    +
    0 Votes
    Big Ole Jack

    I told him that I am not interested (for obvious reasons) and even if I were desperately looking for work, I wouldn't go near Merrill Lynch with a 10 foot pole.

    +
    0 Votes
    Locrian_Lyric

    When the EVPs confide in you that they're looking elsewhere for work....

    MMMMMMMMMMMMM.... not a good thing.

    +
    0 Votes
    Big Ole Jack

    because people run out of there screaming in agony at the politics and bullcrap going around. This position will be advertised for another 2 years because they won't be able to retain anyone in this position for more than a few weeks.

    +
    0 Votes
    CONTACTS

    To the author:
    With all understanding to your frustration
    I would recommend against blacklabeling any big company for bad experience with one/two of their managers - there are hundreds of other managers among whom there are honest people. Otherwise company wouldn't get to the top.
    So please don't help people who didn't pay you to ruin a reputation of a company that is a place to work for thousands. It will not help you and it definitely will damage the reputation of the company.

    +
    0 Votes
    jpb

    It is an entirely different situation when there is only one or two isolated managers who operate like this. Many companies deserve to have their reputations tarnished, because of broad policies that specifically dictate this approach to contractors.

    +
    0 Votes
    Big Ole Jack

    for support beyond 40 hours. And, if they make an issue of it, I repeat the same line I do to everyone else..."You no pay..I no play!". Consultants are not corporate slave employees, so if you want our support, expect to get a bill. I doubt doctors and lawyers offer free services out of the goodness of their hearts, because they will bill you for every hour of them time. Contractors are no different!

    +
    0 Votes
    OldER Mycroft

    No Workey.

    +
    0 Votes
    Big Ole Jack

    I couldn't have said it better myself.

    +
    0 Votes
    mjd420nova

    The very top of the front page states the monetary obligations for services rendered. Really simple, A $125. callout fee with $105 an hour witha one hour minimum. Hours over 8 per day are 150 % the regular rate. Also included is the mileage rate and charges for meals and lodging should the travel be over 150 miles from my office. Holidays are at 150% of regular and should it be after 40 hours, it is 250% regular rate. I don't mind getting those calls in the middle of the night, it's the ones who will wake me and expect me to diagnose over the phone for free. I might be good, but not that good.

    +
    0 Votes

    Yep

    Tig2

    And I have defined in my contract just exactly what that expectation looks like and what it costs.

    I have never had the problem of being asked to work in my down time as a contractor or consultant. The language of the contract protects me.

    +
    0 Votes
    Big Ole Jack

    What's even more insulting is that they continue with such behavior, knowing full well that they won't get anything unless they pay for the service.

    +
    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    Was from people who didn't realize that I got paid no matter what. They just knew that I was the IT Guy and called no matter what.

    Now I try Remote Access to repair some machines or I'll go out there whenever. **** I get paid no matter what and now that my first option is to remotely access the computers they all expect to get billed from the moment that the phone rings till I go back to sleep.

    They don't even complain when I'm Power Napping when I've been on site over a day. They all know that they get billed from the moment that I arrive or wake up after hours till I either leave or get home depending on when they called me out.

    Col

    +
    0 Votes
    lgomez

    Little background. I am a Mexican, living in Mexico who does consulting jobs in the US. Let me tell you this, US is heaven!!!. For what I read some of you will not stand a single week doing consulting in Mexico. DO NOT START BLAMING. Understand, there is a lot of underpayed, overworked managers out there. They expect you to give at least the same "effort" as them (mainly because you are making more money than them). I am not saying that it is rigth or if I like it, it just the way it is. This is true for a lot of Companies in Mexico either they are Mexican, American, European or Japanese.

    All of the above means that I am used to it, so when I get a contract in the US, its just honey. This is what I do just to get a good spirit. 40 working hours per week, 4 extra hours free of charge only if request is on paper and I am on site. After that everything is 200%.

    It is very important to have the free time stated on the contract. When they say you -"We need to finish this, can you stay a little longer?", I say "Of course!!!, just let me print the FORM". You handle the free time form to the manager. This send a very strong message to the him/her. "I am pretty serious about my contract hours, even for the free ones".

    Are you worried to give your work for free? Can your customer take an 8-10% increase in your hour rate?

    Make a little math.

    Everyone wants "free stuff", even if they have to pay for it.

    Regards,

    +
    0 Votes
    techrepublic

    An exchange of e-mails should be sufficient to form a binding contract.

    Also, make it clear that the decision was theirs, not yours. For example, you might inform them "My contracted working hours are 09:00 to 18:00. I can start to investigate your problem at 09:00. If you wish me to start work before then, please send me a message confirming that you authorise overtime payments according to my standard terms and conditions."

    You may be interested to learn that the other side of the Atlantic, the European Court of Justice has ruled that time "on call" - i.e. when you are expected to answer the phone - constitutes working time, even if they don't call.

    +
    0 Votes
    robin

    On Call equates to "working time" . . . wow !
    Do you have more detail - I would like to use it to poke a stick at some folk I know ;-)

    Reason I ask is that the articles I found related to actual on-site presence to be regarded as working time. I didn't find the reference to "standby" time.

    +
    0 Votes
    egpor95

    Actually courts in the U.S. have held that MANDATED standby time for an EMPLOYEE is generally payable, although a lower scale is acceptable in those cases. The KEY is, EMPLOYEE. For an independent contractor it is strictly a matter of "whats in YOUR contract?"
    Gene Y.

    +
    0 Votes
    techrepublic

    The European Working Time Directive defines working time as follows:
    "working time shall mean any period during which the worker is working, at the employer's disposal and carrying out his activity or duties, in accordance with national laws and/or practice".

    The ECJ ruled that a doctor on call (Dr Norbert Jaeger, Kiel Hospital, Germany) satisfied this definition. n.b. Dr Jaeger wasn't asking to be paid extra for the period; he wished to assert his right not to work more than 40 hours in a week (a statutory right throughout the European Union).

    +
    0 Votes
    Locrian_Lyric

    I don't think I've ever worked less than 45

    +
    0 Votes
    Shellbot

    other than the wee bit of overtime here and there, which i take as time off rather than pay..in the past 8 years i have never worked more than 37.5 hours a week.

    thank you EU :)

    +
    0 Votes
    Locrian_Lyric

    I've done as much as 70-80hr weeks.

    When I worked for a financial company, my work day started at 5:30 am, when I called India from home, would continue when I got in the office at 7:30, when I'd check the email, at 8:00am(EST)I'd catch the UK as they were coming back from lunch...
    get home at around 7pm, hop on the phone to Japan at 9pm.

    and on Saturdays, disaster recovery exercises.

    +
    0 Votes
    Shellbot

    i couldn't take that..would burn out in a few months..

    +
    0 Votes
    scansite

    Hi,

    A couple of weeks ago I traveled from Holland
    to Germany for a job interview.

    The train trip took 8 hours in total, and the whole process cost me about 600 Dollars.

    I had the interview on Thursday and they promised me feedback the Monday or Tuesday after that.

    To make a long story short: Neither my agency
    or me heard anything during the whole of that week. Mind you, this is a company that sells Information Systems for Stock Exchanges
    all over the world.

    Decency is not a word in their dictionary.

    So, as you can see, contractors get fucked around in many different ways.

    Carl

    +
    0 Votes
    peter.leahey

    In today's workplace, where maximizing productivity gives managers/execs huge bonuses at the expense of workers, this is typical behavior. It is insane to expect people to work for nothing but it is a result of the GOP trickle down economics. However, I have also found many managers are literally insane, without any recall of conversations and replying to questions with answers to other questions. Also without any awareness of their previous comments.

    +
    0 Votes
    cabratt

    I am not a contractor but I work in a law office. As soon as they found out that I was certified and knew my way around computers, they never called a tech again. They think it's ok to call on me to fix everything in the small office and just get me a lunch every now and then. A nice bonus every now and then would go a long way. I don't mind helping any one but most of the time they don't listen anyway and I have to redo the fix!

    +
    0 Votes
    CIO at Alphabetas

    I would like to know how either parties politics have anything to do with this? Why does it seem people who are married to either major party never lose an opportunity to slip the knife in?
    Come on... demonstrate that link you made with real world logic- not the tortured logic of the 1 party systems backbiting we currently enjoy...

    +
    0 Votes
    Locrian_Lyric

    Party politics has nothing to do with this lunacy

    +
    0 Votes

    When I first started out in consulting I ran into this problem right away. I put in a lot of hours on the financial project I was on but never complained (though I should have). Finally, during the last big push I put in an extra 12 hours during this week and requested that my over time be paid for.

    Of course the manager would have nothing to do with it so I went to my recruiter and told him that I didn't think I was asking for all that much. He had me calculate how much over time I thought I had put into the entire project and surprisingly I was able to come up with a rough estimate that was legitimate.

    He got me money, the manager threw me off the project and I was sent to work for another client within a week.

    As far as financial companies are concerned, they are all horror houses to work in (I worked in financial for about 20 years.). They tend to attract the worst in our field since such working conditions require huge egos and the ability to blame everyone else for your own failures.

    +
    0 Votes
    Locrian_Lyric

    It seems that in the Financials, the ONLY way to survive is to be a total A$$.

    True story:

    IT guy does a great job.

    TWO managers go down and tell his boss how great and helpful he was.

    The following week, he was laid off.

    The union got his job back because it WAS unjustified (the old "you are making us look bad" bit)

    end result, he got his job back, but dropped his productivity to come more inline with the low standards of the shop.

    +
    0 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    Where the worse you are the faster you get promoted.

    These places reward stupidity and punish the real workers by refusing them the advances that they deserve. Only good thing that I've ever seen is that the real workers get away from the fools buy these fools are invariably replaced by more fools who will do as they are told.

    Col

    +
    0 Votes
    dfreeman

    I've been on both sides of this fence, and all I have to say is if you didn't take care of this in your contract, too bad. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

    The entire situation boils down to, you are a contractor, and right now, those are pretty easy to come by. A few years down the road and the pendulum will shift back the other way.

    +
    0 Votes
    Locrian_Lyric

    Oh, you can have wet between the ears Ashok from Mumbai who's been to Infosys's "Scamming 101" class, but REAL consultants.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

    good luck.

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    Eoghan

    Been there myself. Even had one guy tell me I should volunteer for unpaid overtime because that was how they picked the people they wanted to hire in. HA!

    I gently explained to him that the company was already winning because they paid me no benefits, because I had no paid holidays, etc, etc. He couldn't understand it.

    Let me also point out that this fellow as an Iraqi national, by birth, who had emigrated to the UK and became a UK citizen, they emigrated to the US and was working on becoming a US citizen. I asked him why he hadn't volunteered to go back to Iraq as an interpreter for the military and short cut the naturalization process. No answer.

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    JamesRL

    They exist.....

    ...if you want to break into Advertising, Brokerage, Movie production, even articling lawyers etc. etc. They hire lots of junior people at crap wages and expect them to do lots of unpaid OT to gain one of the few better paying spots in the future. In many cases less than half will make it in the industru.


    I'd like to think IT won't be one of those kinds of jobs.

    James

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    mccolloughc

    I'm playing devil's advocate, but this is based on actual experience with a consultant...

    Consultant John Doe developed a proprietary database that ran fine all day but when it rebooted at midnight, it required a password to get back in. A password he forgot to share with us.

    Should my company have to pay Consultant John Doe when we call him at midnight to obtain this password?

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    Fregeus

    The error was his, not yours. Therefore you have no reason to pay him for fixing his mistake.


    TCB

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    Oz_Media

    Though I don't offer such support now, I did until last year and I was always very clear about billable hours. When a contract is signed they have no recourse from that point forward. If I billed 4 hrs, they paid it, end of.

    In Canada, Bc particularly, if you call ANY employee at home, whether on salary or hourly wage, they are entitled to 2 hrs pay, even if for a 15 minute conversation. If you need then for 2hr and 1 minute, when at home they are entitled to 4 hrs pay.

    If yuo turn up for work and get sent straight home, 2 hrs pay.

    If you work for any portion of time when you are scheduled for 8 and are sent home (lack of work etc), 4 hrs pay.

    The government here backs employees and contractors BIG TIME, companies don't have a chance to screw people over when people know the employment standards.

    Companies here soon learn that you simply don't f**k a canuck.