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    • #2431499

      Are we talking about the U.S. budget?

      by john.a.wills ·

      In reply to Baby steps to balancing the budget

      If so, I suggest the defunding of Planned Parenthood (and the UNPFA as long as it is dominated by PP) and the Israeli/Zionist state. Well, in the case of the latter, funding should be made conditional on the restitution of all the private property stolen in the last 60+ years, and perhaps the Israeli leadership would go along with that, in which case nothing would be saved quickly, but there would soon be full recognition of the Zionist state by the Arab states so there would be less excuse for all that U.S.-funded armament.

      Oh yes, the farm subsidies should go; they’re just a distortion of prices.

      • #2432104

        Planned parenthood saves you guys a bundle…

        by ansugisalas ·

        In reply to Are we talking about the U.S. budget?

        Those accidental teen pregnancies are a big drain both in lost productivity and in opportunity cost.

        • #2432064

          PP increases the number of teen pregnancies

          by john.a.wills ·

          In reply to Planned parenthood saves you guys a bundle…

          PP, obviously deliberately, prescribes less effective means of family planning (they don’t teach Billing, do they?), presumably with the intention of making money on later abortions. Which cost us human lives immediately and, later, post-abortion syndrome, with its costs. Without the American Eugenics Society, as PP used to be known, we would have an in many ways healthier society, so funding it is counter-productive.

        • #2432057

          Less effective than the entirely unreliable abstinence?

          by ansugisalas ·

          In reply to PP increases the number of teen pregnancies

          No such thing, buddy.

        • #2432029

          barring rape, abstinence is completely reliable

          by john.a.wills ·

          In reply to Less effective than the entirely unreliable abstinence?

          but difficult for many people to achieve.

        • #2432027

          Doesn’t that make it impractical

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to barring rape, abstinence is completely reliable

          as opposed to other, easier methods? If the discussion is strictly about government spending, isn’t it cheaper to fund easier methods than to pay for the food, health care, and education of unwanted children? You’re not going to stop people from having sex, although you can shift the expense of the consequences to the rest of us..

        • #2431961

          You missed my main point:

          by john.a.wills ·

          In reply to Doesn’t that make it impractical

          PP does not tech Billings, which is easy enough and more reliable than the methods PP teaches.

        • #2431946

          Billing? For sex?

          by ansugisalas ·

          In reply to Doesn’t that make it impractical

          Isn’t that prostitution?

        • #2431941

          Deleted by author.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to Doesn’t that make it impractical

          .

        • #2432019

          Since people cannot be relied upon to abstain

          by ansugisalas ·

          In reply to barring rape, abstinence is completely reliable

          abstinence is patently unreliable. Known fact.
          The worst was when Dubya demanded Abstinence replace condoms in African aid efforts, leaving the wives of whoring husbands with no protection from AIDS.
          Hypocrisy is seldom more pungent than when dripping from the virtuous.

      • #2432101

        Wow! Cut Planned Parenthood?

        by nicknielsen ·

        In reply to Are we talking about the U.S. budget?

        Congratulations. You’ve just cut less than .01% of the budget. That’s a bold step.

        Foreign aid? 1%. Another bold step.

        Keep it up. You’ll reach balance in…oh…about 40 years. Pretty much the same time Ryan’s plan would do it.

        • #2432063

          Okay, only 1.01% at once,

          by john.a.wills ·

          In reply to Wow! Cut Planned Parenthood?

          but somewhat more as the results multiply. Still, you are right that my suggestions are for small potatoes in proportion to the whole budget. It’s just that these are morally urgent matters, so I put them first.

          For larger sums, see Palmetto’s suggestions below, with most of which I agree.

        • #2432039

          I agree with most of Palmetto’s suggestions, as well.

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Okay, only 1.01% at once,

          But on the subject of Planned Parenthood, you and I disagree. It’s morally urgent for me that people have access to appropriate medical care. To defund Planned Parenthood would deny millions of women who can’t otherwise afford it access to such care. It may be “morally urgent” for you to defund PP, but I don’t see anything “moral” in failing (or refusing) to educate our children on how to prevent pregnancy, reducing access to the means to prevent pregnancy, banning abortion, denying access to affordable care, then complaining when women have babies they can’t afford to support.

        • #2432028

          appropriate medical care

          by john.a.wills ·

          In reply to I agree with most of Palmetto’s suggestions, as well.

          does not include most of the “services” of the American Eugenics Society, which does not educate in erotic self-respect or in the most reliable methods of family planning. Defunding it would not, alas, end abortion, but it would much reduce the kind of rubbish you are spouting: PP, like AIPAC, propagandizes for funding for its purposes, including renewed propaganda; you are picking up bits of PP’s propaganda and respouting them free.

        • #2432018

          Take a look at Westboro baptists…

          by ansugisalas ·

          In reply to appropriate medical care

          then tell me abortions are a bad thing…

        • #2432008

          What are the most reliable methods of family planning?

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to appropriate medical care

          Abstinence? Rhythm?

          Sex is fun. It’s designed to be fun. You can tell the kids not to do it all you want, but they’re still going to do it. If you want to reduce the number of abortions, you need to make it easier for women to avoid the consequences of sex. Reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies. Educate our children about sex. Teach them how to prevent pregnancies. Allow the use of the morning after pill. Then you won’t have as many women getting pregnant, which will reduce the need for abortions. And also reduce the need for public assistance for poor women.

          You keep going on about the “American Eugenics Society” as the progenitor of Planned Parenthood. Given the current beliefs and behavior of Republicans, should I now refer to them as the John Birch Society? The KKK? So far, only the methods differ…

        • #2431911

          Easier to avoid the consequences of sex.

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to What are the most reliable methods of family planning?

          BINGO, I’d have a shitload of kids *shudders* were it not for Planned Parenthood. However, that’s also true were it not for the people who informed of PPs existence.

        • #2431966

          Planned Parenthood is good for the country

          by delbertpgh ·

          In reply to appropriate medical care

          It makes birth control and birth control education available to people with low budgets, the poor and working class, and the young who are just getting started in the economy. Without those services, we’d have a lot more pregnancies in families and single women who couldn’t afford a child (or more children,) and a lot more abortions, incidentally. We have an economic system that depends on a working class, and we will always have the poor; it’s not productive or decent to leave a large slice of our people priced out of this kind of medical care. It’s been the American way to keep this kind of thing out of government and in the hands of non-profits, like PP. If government didn’t fund PP to do pap smears and pass out contraceptives to the poor, how would it get done?

          Planned Parenthood also counsels people on healthy pregnancies, as well as preventing them, or aborting them. It’s a full set of GYN services. Most of the people who see PP are not there for abortions.

          There’s a big distaste for sex in this country, and a feeling that we’d all be better off with less of it, and being secretive about what’s left. Bull. Lying to ourselves about what we want and do is not a rational policy. I lived through the 50s. It wasn’t a better time to be a woman, or to be a man, for that matter.

    • #2432091

      Close military bases located in foreign countries.

      by charliespencer ·

      In reply to Baby steps to balancing the budget

      Doing so would reduce the manpower requirements. It would also keep more money stateside, as both military spending and servicemen paychecks would remain here. Raise military retirement to 25 or even 30 years of service. Close the commissary and Exchange systems; Wal-marts are usually close to the same prices and have better selections. Eliminate overhead and redundancy by merging the five services into one. Ignore the brass when they scream about traditions we can no longer afford.

      Stop buying unneeded major military equipment just because it keeps factories open back in the district / state. Retrain those left unemployed for infrastructure (roads, bridges, public transportation, water, sewer, etc.) and use the money formerly wasted on unwanted weapons to rebuild those systems.

      Phase out farm subsidies. Alter the ethanol requirement so that it must be made from non-food crops. Brazil gets ten times as much ethanol from an acre of switch grass as we do from corn. Ignore the Big Ag outfits and oil refineries.

      Raise taxes. Cap the deduction on dependents at three. Make all income taxable, even if it’s only at half a percent. It doesn’t have to be done in one big jump; make the increases gradual. Ignore and override the ‘No tax’ pledge-makers.

      Decrease the amount of mortgage interest that can be deducted on homes over $250,000. Phase it out on second homes or second mortgages. Ignore the realtors and mortgage lenders.

      Gradually raise the gas tax by 25 or 50 cents. Mandate this increase to be used for road and bridge repairs, NOT new construction. The price of gas fluctuates that much in a couple of months anyway.

      Pass a line-item veto bill.

      Eliminate overhead by combining Medicare, Medicaid, and similar medical programs into one department. Roll the functions of Veterans Affairs back into DoD. Ignore the government employees unions.

      Increase usage fees for national parks; dedicate the money to repairs and maintenance.

      Phase out Amtrak funding; if it can’t make it on it’s own, let it die. Take the regulations off the post office, cut it loose to run as a business and set its own rates, so it can either make or break on its own.

      Hire some more IRS auditors. Here in SC we hired more and each repaid his salary within a few months.

      Legalize marijuana and quit wasting money enforcing laws against a product that is far less dangerous to society than alcohol or tobacco. Make money by taxing it; save money on enforcement and incarceration; unclog the court systems.

      Tie the Social Security retirement age to the estimated lifespan, say 85% or so. Take estimates from seven non-government sources (medical research firms, public health universities, etc.) every ten years, toss out the lowest and highest ones.

      Tie the salaries of elected officials and cabinet secretaries to the deficit. It may not save much, but it might just motivate them.

      Man up and do something, ANYTHING, and stop worrying about what party is going to get the credit. If both parties and houses agree on 80% of a bill, drop the rest, pass that much, and move on. Make passing a budget the FIRST thing you do at the start of the congressional session, not something you put off until three months into the fiscal year.

    • #2432079

      Too much of a constituency

      by thechas ·

      In reply to Baby steps to balancing the budget

      The penny lick the nearly as costly dollar bill has much too large of a vocal constituency to ever be eliminated by Congress.

      Research the number of times either Congress or the US Treasury have attempted to eliminate the penny or replace the dollar bill with a dollar coin. Always a very strong vocal outcry comes straight to each member of Congress and the measure is dropped.

      Then again, I’m one of the few who will stop and pick up a single penny I see on the ground. I would not willingly give up either the penny or the dollar bill.

      The citizen support for the penny is but a microcosm of how difficult it is to cut any US government spending. Every program has a constituency, most of which are highly connected and get very active when their program is threatened. Only when people start asking for cuts to the government spending that they support or benefit from will we see any real budget cuts.

      Myself, I would like to see increased spending on the programs that I support. Therefore, I have to be in favor of higher taxes to pay for spending and deposit reduction.

      Chas

      • #2432075

        That’s where the hypocrisy lies, Chas

        by nicknielsen ·

        In reply to Too much of a constituency

        Everybody wants to keep their pet program, but they aren’t willing to have their taxes raised to pay for it.

        Having spent some serious time in Europe, I always find myself stifling laughter every time I hear somebody complain about how “over-taxed” Americans are. I laugh out loud when South Carolinians complain about their “record” tax load, particularly after the Legislature cut already low (compared to other states) property tax rates by over a quarter and [u]eliminated[/u] the sales tax on groceries.

        The same people don’t hesitate to complain, though, that they aren’t getting everything from government that they deserve…

        • #2432070
          Avatar photo

          But Pally don’t you understand

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to That’s where the hypocrisy lies, Chas

          The Government is there to do what the People want.

          The trouble in the US is that everyone wants something different and they are all willing to scream the House Down if they do not get it. Doesn’t matter that millions of others are screaming the house down because what 1 person wants interferes with what they want everyone has to get what they want.

          now remember

          [b]Hello I’m from the Government and I’m here to help you.[/b]

          Col 😉

        • #2432067

          To which saying, my response is “BOHICA”

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to But Pally don’t you understand

          Bend over, here it comes again!

      • #2432033

        If I stick to the original subject,

        by charliespencer ·

        In reply to Too much of a constituency

        the penny isn’t as much of a waste as dollar coins. At least people will use the penny.

        I have only one problem with dollar coins: vending machines won’t accept them. That’s a simple technology issue, and I’d gladly use the coins if the vending companies had reason to upgrade the mechanisms. Apparently the rest of the public has other issues. The Eisenhower dollar coin was too big to be practical. The Susan B. Anthony coin was too easily confused with the Washington quarter, a costly mistake when using a vending machine. I don’t know why the Sacajawea coin failed.

        At least those coins were distributed to the public. The biggest waste was Congress’ mandate that the Treasury mint a series of dollar coins with each president, similar to the quarters with each state on the back. No one wants these coins, and they’re sitting undistributed in bank vaults. Even the detested $2 bill has more pieces in circulation. As of this spring Congress was discussing dropping the requirement, but I haven’t heard if they finally took action.

        Speaking of state quarters, ‘special series’ coins are a waste of taxpayer money. The uniqueness encourages people to collect them, taking them out of circulation prematurely. We charge people for stamps, and if they don’t use them then the post office profits by not having to provide the purchased service.

        • #2432017

          People can’t really use pennies anywhere…

          by ansugisalas ·

          In reply to If I stick to the original subject,

          and it costs more than a penny to make a penny. It’s a total waste to keep making them.
          Nickels are even more expensive (proportional to value too).

        • #2432004

          I use pennies all the time.

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to People can’t really use pennies anywhere…

          $26.73. Danged things keep from breaking bills.

        • #2431998

          We have 5, 10, 20 and 50 (euro)cent coins.

          by ansugisalas ·

          In reply to I use pennies all the time.

          Finland refused to accept 1 cent coins because their value was smaller than the cost of making them. Makes no difference… and now the 5 cent coin is that shi††y little thing we only need to use in order to avoid getting one. If something has a cost with a fraction of .05, I look in my wallet for a 5 cent piece, because otherwise I’ll have to accept a 5 cent piece! Other than that, they’re useless. And the 5 cents of a euro is worth around 7 cents of a dollar.

        • #2431985

          Ditto; sales tax.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to I use pennies all the time.

          I use them regularly.

          I’d support eliminating them but then there’s the question of how we handle sales taxes. Here in SC the state sales tax is 6%, with some counties adding another penny on some items, and some cities adding yet another. Eliminating the penny raises the sales tax by at least 2%, and potentially as much as 4%. I’m not biting on that much without a legislatively mandated, locked-in guarantee of how the windfall will be spent.

        • #2431965

          Rounding works

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Ditto; sales tax.

          If the total ends in 8, 9, 1, or 2, round to 0.
          If the total ends in 3, 4, 6, or 7, round to 5.

          The military exchange service overseas has been doing it for decades. Surprising, the overall result is pretty much a wash, plus AAFES determined that over time, they were actually saving several thousand dollars a year in administrative costs by not dealing with pennies.

          Before the Euro, the Italians didn’t deal with amounts of less than 10 Lira; if the total required something smaller than that, you got a piece of candy or two.

        • #2431945

          Not surprising though.

          by ansugisalas ·

          In reply to Rounding works

          Rounding is a zero sum game.

        • #2431940

          Quibble.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to Rounding works

          You’re assuming the politicians won’t just everything round UP.

          1, 2, 3, 4 = 5
          6, 7, 8, 9 = 10

        • #2431897

          That’s why you hold on to your old pennies…

          by ansugisalas ·

          In reply to Rounding works

          then you put them in a sock… and you know the rest.

        • #2431910

          I also pile them up

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to Ditto; sales tax.

          in a gallon jar. Every couple years I cash the contents of that jar in and buy me a bottle of Turkey. 😀

        • #2431893

          We used to do that.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to I also pile them up

          We’d toss all change in a large beer stein. Once a year or so we’d dump it out and roll the coins, just before we’d go on vacation. For a couple of decades we’d average close to $100 annually. Then we started to use debit cards more often, and stopped using cash as often. We quit saving coins when we dumped the stein after two years and had less than $20. Now we just spend them as quickly as we get them.

    • #2431970

      The country had a balanced budget under Clinton

      by delbertpgh ·

      In reply to Baby steps to balancing the budget

      The tax regime of Clinton produced balanced budgets, at least for a couple of years. Partly that was due to the stock bubble producing huge, taxable capital gains, but it also seemed well tuned to the economy of its time. It didn’t stop people from getting very rich, lots of them. George Bush confronted the issue of surplusses by proclaiming big tax cuts, which were followed promptly by war and recession, raising expenses while lowering collections. It seemed like a lot of bad strategy to me.

      We could do worse than going back to the Clinton rates.

      • #2431964

        Can’t do that, it would harm “the economy”

        by nicknielsen ·

        In reply to The country had a balanced budget under Clinton

        “The economy” being, of course, the denizens of the stock and financial markets. Lord knows the country would fall apart if the alleged job creators could no longer earn hundreds of thousands (or more) a year.

        • #2431956

          Billions were made during the Clinton economy…

          by delbertpgh ·

          In reply to Can’t do that, it would harm “the economy”

          Wall Street was not lined with investment bankers selling apples and panhandling quarters from the passers by, in those years. Them suckers got filthy rich. In the Bush years, they got double-filthy rich, and now everybody forgets how much wealth inequality boomed during the previous administration.

        • #2431944

          It’s also fun when people say the Bush tax cuts worked…

          by ansugisalas ·

          In reply to Billions were made during the Clinton economy…

          the revenues went up, though the taxes went down.

          And how is it a bubble works, again? Oh, right, overstimulation – then crash.

          Those talking points are another reason not to trust those messengers.

        • #2431932

          Nobody says the Bush tax cuts resulted in higher tax revenue.

          by delbertpgh ·

          In reply to It’s also fun when people say the Bush tax cuts worked…

          Economic expansion during the Bush years was dead slow. The only point where the growth rate started to accelerate was during the housing/mortgage/refinance boom of 2006-2007, just prior to the crash.

          I’ve never heard any analyst, not even the craziest anti-tax fanatic, say that Bush’s tax cuts made revenues go up. I have heard fanatics say that the slow recovery would have been much worse without the tax cuts, but they have never offered any proof, other than to say “taxes hold back the economy and it always grows after a tax cut.”

        • #2431895

          I have heard the argument made…

          by ansugisalas ·

          In reply to Nobody says the Bush tax cuts resulted in higher tax revenue.

          Probably not by actual professional analysts, but the lay folk do a lot of talking these days. And their word has weight when they talk to their like-minded peers. It all gets very mutual confirmation of desired outcome.

        • #2431939

          Quibble

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to Can’t do that, it would harm “the economy”

          ‘The economy’ that would be harmed is that of all those elected idiots who recite the Norquist Creed at their ‘No tax’ revival meetings.

    • #2431938

      Question regarding tax cuts for ‘the rich’ and job growth.

      by charliespencer ·

      In reply to Baby steps to balancing the budget

      As I understand the argument, cutting income taxes on the wealthy helps them generate jobs. Exactly how does this work?

      I thought job growth was one reason why capital gains taxes are already substantially lower than income taxes. I thought that was done to encourage individuals to invest in companies; investment provides the funding to expand or improve; expansion increases jobs.

      How does cutting income tax on individuals encourage job growth? How do we know the tax savings will be spent on something that encourages job growth? Wouldn’t it make more sense to cut the income taxes on businesses, not individuals?

      • #2431933

        Maybe when the tax rate dropped from 90% to 70%, it caused growth.

        by delbertpgh ·

        In reply to Question regarding tax cuts for ‘the rich’ and job growth.

        Maybe. That was the Kennedy tax cut. Nobody’s sure if it actually worked. Or the Reagan tax cuts, which took it from 70% to 28%. Nobody knows if these actually worked, either. The initial analysis was that it did stimulate growth, and that gets repeated endlessly by anti-tax drum beaters. There’s doubt today that the Kennedy surge amounted to anything more than a normal economic recovery, and no tax cut since then has been unambiguously tied by the data to a surge. Not even Reagan’s.

        The capital gains tax was around 40% when income taxes were at 90%. Reagan did away with the income/capital gains distinction; rates for both were dropped to 28%. It makes economic sense: why should the tax system favor one type of gain over another? Why should you tax somebody 35% for profits on a stock held for 9 months (income), but only 15% after a year (capital gain?) Should the government be trying to steer investment money into brackets? State planning of the private sector is generally frowned upon by capitalist theorists. Of course, any guy who can benefit from a tax cut becomes a tax cut supporter.

        What I think happens is that a businessman will bet his money on expanding his business if he has confidence his bet will pay off. He will take a risk if he thinks it will make him more money, and that is regardless of whether his net profit will be taxed at 15% or 35% or 40%. At any of those rates, he still puts money in his pocket to enjoy at the end of the day. If he lacks confidence that his investment will pay, he won’t make it, regardless of the tax rate. A low rate won’t make a bad bet good, and a high rate won’t make him want to not make money. The best thing we can do for tax rates is to keep them consistent over the long haul, so that the investor is kept betting on the economy and not on the government.

    • #2431853

      Administrative costs of processing tax returns and welfare applications

      by chdchan ·

      In reply to Baby steps to balancing the budget

      Those less conspicuous admin costs should not be overlooked. So with a cut, there comes substantial saving at the same time, needless to say also the trimming and streamling of the total govermental processes.

      • #2431852

        Tax return costs are already way down from a decade ago

        by charliespencer ·

        In reply to Administrative costs of processing tax returns and welfare applications

        Most people file electronically, either on line themselves or by paying H&R tax preparers for the privilege of those ‘Rapid Refund’ rip-offs. Welfare programs are usually administered by the states, not the feds.

        I’m certainly not saying there isn’t overhead to cut, just that those aren’t two of the better examples.

      • #2431851

        Don’t forget the entertainment value

        by nicknielsen ·

        In reply to Administrative costs of processing tax returns and welfare applications

        in all the whining and complaining from all those who see another three or four percent of Americans added to the ranks of those “not paying any taxes”.

    • #2431843

      The costs of penalizing China

      by chdchan ·

      In reply to Baby steps to balancing the budget

      There are points to ponder when trying to curb China involvement in US business and its commodities/products. First and foremost, it is the all-time low prices being enjoyed by US citizens over China goods. Second comes the damages to the mutual beneficial relations having been established and operating well so far. Thirdly, China businesses are important taxpayers and big employers, in a word economic benefactors to US citizens too; protectionistic impacts will be bilateral. Then is the possible retaliation by China. Last but not least, any disputes should be resolved by litigation but not sudden unilateral sanction or displinary actions that are politically advised in such high profile.

      • #2431837

        How’s the weather in Beijing today? No text.

        by charliespencer ·

        In reply to The costs of penalizing China

        .

      • #2431785

        I believe it’s a retaliation for Chinese actions of the same kind…

        by ansugisalas ·

        In reply to The costs of penalizing China

        playing politics and hurt pride with trade (delaying goods over such things as receiving the Dalai Lama) is a good way to piss off a lot of people, and a poor platform for martyrdom.

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