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  • #2262341

    Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

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    by chrisfc ·

    Hi,
    Until recently, I had been looking at buying Dell’s rather space saving USFF (ultra small form factor) chassis for new computers. They hinge on the back of the screen, so are easy to move around. We have a few.

    Great from a sysadmin point of view, until I started considering what I do when the warranty runs out. These are pretty tight pieces of kit, it’s not going to be easy changing out a hard drive or memory if they fail, not compared to a desktop anyway. However i have three years before anything could potentially fail.

    What’s everyone’s opinion on this? Worth worrying about, or is the 3 year warranty sufficient…
    Chris.

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    • #2543140

      Buy Shuttles or media boxs

      by tony85 ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      I dislike most of the kit from the big guys – they often have quirks that are a killer when out of warranty. I have just had to ditch a Fujitsu-Siemens at a small company because it had a non-standard power supply and motherboard. I couldn’t even fit a replacement motherboard.

      If you like small form factor, take a look at the Shuttle PC – a mate of mine has ended up supplying these more or less exclusively to small businesses and home users. There is a good range, but you do end up with a package of case and motherboard.

      Another alternative is to take a look at some of the cases for media PCs – some of these are quite small form factor, and designed to run quietly. Many will take standard motherboards, and with motherboards having pretty well everything you want on board now, and Firewire and USB2 poviding expansion for most things, you do not need a great deal of space for expansion.

      • #2537917

        Silverstone Case

        by lindsay.leung ·

        In reply to Buy Shuttles or media boxs

        I had a Shuttle until it died (mobo or PSU I think). It served me well for just over a year, but I wouldn’t get one again, namely because:
        1) While the design and compactness is great, it suffered from overheating; and
        2) Decent parts are hard to come by. For example an 8800GTS video card will not fit, nor will a standard PSU. I also had to buy a special ‘Shuttle’ wireless module that fitted in the case.

        I’ve since replaced it with a Silverstone case. Still SFF, but not quite as small as the Shuttle. It looks great, and I’ve managed to fit in all normal sized parts.

    • #2543134

      check memory and hdd types, whether they’re standard ones.

      by ulugor ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      if memory and HDD types are wide-spread ones, go for that solution. there also HP’s dc7100 SFF or dc5750 to consider. plus add Care pack to entend warranty and on site support to 5 years.

    • #2543115

      HP SFF

      by johnc ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      I have been using HP SFF machines for some years now and they are easy to work on.
      I have been taking them with a 3 year warranty, but as we have had so litte trouble with them I have decided with our new purchases of DC7700 to take the 5 year warrenty option, at very little extra cost.

      • #2543109

        Dont go Dell

        by tlabs ·

        In reply to HP SFF

        The whole line of Optplex is FUBAR I work for a company who has the support contract for Dell and Gateway. I do mostly replacement MOBOs on the optiplex line the 270-280 blow Caps realy bad and I am seeing the boards I replaced a year ago blowing caps again. Now I see the newer Optplexes 600-700 series starting the same thing, if you need a box machine and are looking @ Dell go to the Dimension Line they have at least reliable Mobos not the crap in the optiplex line.

        Now people say Gateway stinks but the hardware is actually really sound, just the customer service sucks, the support gets the EU so flipping mad when I get there I have to tell the EU that I am not working for Gateway I am just a contractor. But if you get a lot of GWs (100+) you may get a bit better service but not nearly the service plans Dell provides Next business day support the next day. GW NBD is usually 2-4 days and you need to have a credit card on file for them to send you a part

        • #2543101

          Check out Cybernetman.com

          by r_snyder ·

          In reply to Dont go Dell

          They have been around for years. Nice tight package. I have a very old one that is still running 95 to support an application. Never had a prolem with it all these years. New ones look much better.
          http://cybernetman.com/

        • #2543095

          USFF Boxes and Dual Video Adapters

          by brodden ·

          In reply to Dont go Dell

          My company purchased two of these machines about 3 years ago and since then we have been standardizing all of our computers to have two monitors so that employees can be more efficient. This has caused a problem with these two machines because I have tried and been unsuccessful and finding a dual video card for them or making a single pci video card and the Onboard work together.

          Just my two cents…

        • #2542993

          Many of these models will have optional

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to USFF Boxes and Dual Video Adapters

          riser cards to fit full size video cards. Also, most can use half height cards.

          though, I do prefer full size desktops over these mini versions.

    • #2543096

      Will it fit?

      by dicklaw ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      Look back at what Compac did for so many years, the only replacement that would fit and/or work was a house item. When that Compac item became unavailable or over priced you were stuck.
      Never again for me.
      Richard E Law (A dinasaur veteran).

    • #2543246

      The Dell USFF

      by cbraatz ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      Having worked as a contractor doing hardware warranty work on Dell machines,in the past. I’ve done a few of these machines. Memory was not hard to change, Hard drives are more of a standard laptop hard drive. Both you just remove a cover and there it is. There is another model that you just split the case, and remove memory and hard drives. Standard desktop issue in this case. Easy to do.
      Motherboards take some work, until you have done a few and learn a couple tricks.
      As for adding a second monitor to one, there are several after-market devices that allow you to do just that.

    • #2543238

      Ultra small = heat issues

      by info ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      I’ll never buy the Ultra Small Form Factor PCs again. They don’t have adequate cooling for the HDD and they get clogged up with dust too quickly.

      • #2543237

        PCI LP cards are hard to come by

        by info ·

        In reply to Ultra small = heat issues

        Another reason not to get anything but the Mini-Tower is that Low-Profile add in cards are hard to come by.

    • #2543228

      Generally USFF doesn’t sound like a good idea

      by chrisfc ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      Thanks for the replies. Judging from the responses, there’s some good reasons for looking at Small Form Factor instead.

      I shall look at the Optiplex 745 SFF instead…

      Although I appreciate the comments on dell machinery, an upgrade to five year warranty covers most of my worries…

      • #2542979

        Our experience

        by little wheel ·

        In reply to Generally USFF doesn’t sound like a good idea

        We have about 50 of the older versions of the 745 USFF, and have had minimal problems with them. The power supply/bricks are external, so that mitigates the heat issue to some degree. I never heard what you were going to do with the new unit, so am unsure of what to recommend. If you want a work box that does everything fairly well, our organization has had good results with Dells. The expandability of a USFF is extremely limited, hence our choice of using external enclosures for all of our ?added? toys. The toys are also portable, and I work in two locations, so they can be moved from one desk or location to another.

        For the power user, we are going with the SFF. I do not think replacement parts are astronomical in cost, nothing near the cost of a laptop, since neither chassis is meant to be carried about. Good luck.

    • #2543227

      Planned Obsolesence!

      by netsyscon ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      Get the USFF for desk savings, Your people will love you, and after three years, re-up the maintenance for another two. Total of over five year machine. By that time you will need to upgrade to handle the new software anyway…

      • #2543204

        two options

        by little wheel ·

        In reply to Planned Obsolesence!

        Our staff have the predecessor of the 745 USFF. We have many SX280s for a business reason ? not enough counter/desktop space, and a standard office type software package. For the power users, we are going to use the replace the standard large desktop chassis with a 745 SFF. We define our power users by the complexity and amount of computing power needed to complete their job, as well as the number of additional peripherals they need. We have moved to the use of external drives (DVD Burners, CD Burners, Zip Drives), scanners, etc. rather than internal installation for expediency sake when we image new boxes. It is also easier to move these peripherals to where they are needed. In the end, we have more space for the added peripherals, but less space taken up by the original boxes. Our ratio of standard user to power user is about 90% – 10%. Most of the power users have a larger space to be able to effectively use the peripherals without enlarging the area.

    • #2543226

      Dell Optiplex 745 USFF

      by mbaker1 ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      We just started buing Dell Optiplex 745’s. Two memory slots and standard SATA drives, DVI on-board video. The way they get the case so small is you get an external brick for the power supply, with a special connector to the back of the unit. Have not had them very long, so not sure how reliability is going to be.

    • #2543218

      Caution Advised

      by ccarter ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      I purchased over 75 of these for a lab setting about a year ago and now the mother boards are failing. Of course, they are within warranty, but in a lab situation, we expect the machines to be up 24-7. The other down side is the inability to add cards if needed.

    • #2543206

      Dell USFF

      by mlashinsky ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      The cover pops off easily, the hard drive is right on top, and the RAM is easy enough to reach as well. The optical drive is an ejectable laptop style drive. If you do not need any add on cards, this will do fine. Like all dells, the MB is propriatory. As for the warrantee, that is always a gamble. Dell is betting it won’t break, and you are betting it will.

    • #2543086

      3 years? the Upgrade cycle., Value of the inventory?

      by 2shane ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      Surprisingly, I tend to get the best of the almost outdated but still in stock hardware….

      I get the “common as flyshit” systems….

      I usually only upgrade when things blow up or wear out; or when it makes good sense to make changes.

      The golly wizzbang megabuck system that is HOT now, simply becomes something that you have to basically pay to get carted away in 5 years time…

      I mean seriously, unless ONE has a GENUINE NEED and GOOD REASONS for getting the high ende components and systems – then I wouldn’t bother with them.

      It amazes me that:

      a) One can only type / think so fast; and

      b) You can get simply outstanding performance, from cheap shit all in one motherboards with kind of basic processors.

      I don’t play super games with high ende graphics and I am not developing apps or running video editing, or any of that stuff; most of what I do is typing and 2D graphics and similar…

      My pathway is to go “Cheap, Reliable and Common.”

      A common box with common cheap parts and a good monitor….

      And I forget all the fancy trendy stuff, that will be worth SFA anyway in a few years time, more so because of it’s narrow market distribution.

      All the parts / systems I use, can be gotten anywhere and I can get replacements from anywhere.

      Simple.

      • #2543073

        What’s standard and what’s not?

        by chrisfc ·

        In reply to 3 years? the Upgrade cycle., Value of the inventory?

        I hear what you’re saying, but not sure it applies across the board.

        I’ve worked for this small charity for two years, it has 60 desktops or so. Ranging from 4 year old maxdata machines through to 6 month old Dell’s.

        Getting a stable buying plan is almost impossible given the rate we’re growing (50% p.a.), I therefore think we’ve got to buy the best hardware available at the time. To do otherwise simply doesn’t make a good investment…

        Back to my pc/chassis decision. Looks like a Dell Optiplex 745 small form factor with 5 years…

    • #2543010

      I can think of lots of reasons to avoid USFF

      by kferraro1 ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      Maybe these were stated already
      1. higher initial cost
      2. physically difficult to repair due to compactness (you’d better have really small hands)
      3. non-standard repair parts
      4. higher expense of repair parts (think laptop)
      5. poor heat dissipation
      So what are you gaining? Do you really have limited space where you need to put these boxes? Cost – benefit ratio: total cost of ownership will be higher, is it worth it? 3 yr. warranty adds a lot of cost up front and then are you going to replace these boxes after three years?

    • #2542990

      The Bigger the Better

      by ra.kish ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      When considering chassis, the bigger the chassis the better. To me, a chassis should be massive enough to have to be placed on the floor under the desk and tall enough so that I do not have to bend over to insert disks or turn it off. I know that this sounds impractical from a business perspective, but it really is not.

      Consider that most cube people have large amounts of space under their desks in their cude. It is easy to slide a chassis in anywhere in that space.

      The main issue with the smaller chassis, as some have already pointed out, is heat. With the newer faster and now multi-core chips, heat dissipation becomes a major problem. I worry about it even with my Alienware chassis; which has dual quad code Cores running at 3 GHz and a dual NVidia card. And if you ever saw the massive heat sink that any of these chips require, you would never consider anything but the roomiest chassis you can find!

    • #2542976

      Our experience

      by little wheel ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      We have about 50 of the older versions of the 745 USFF, and have had minimal problems with them. The power supply/bricks are external, so that mitigates the heat issue to some degree. I never heard what you were going to do with the new unit, so am unsure of what to recommend. If you want a work box that does everything fairly well, our organization has had good results with Dells. The expandability of a USFF is extremely limited, hence our choice of using external enclosures for all of our ?added? toys. The toys are also portable, and I work in two locations, so they can be moved from one desk or location to another.

      For the power user, we are going with the SFF. I do not think replacement parts are astronomical in cost, nothing near the cost of a laptop, since neither chassis is meant to be carried about. Good luck.

    • #2542972

      USFF from Dell

      by 4rd4fun ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      We have purchased serveral of these where space was a premium and have been very pleased. I was very concerned if they would last as we had terrible experience with Dell’s V line from a few years back but these little boxes rock. We even use one for our main frame system console.

      • #2542928

        sometimes it’s not an option

        by mikeaaaaaaaaa9 ·

        In reply to USFF from Dell

        I do alot of dental offices and as usual, IT is the last called when blueprints are drafted. They make the operatories that hold the units so small nothing but small factor fits. I have used the toshiba tablets but they are a little expensive. I have had bad results with HP so I am now going to try the XPS laptops. 15.25 screen. Power with punch. We turn machines every 3 to 4 years so what is the dirrefence, they all are throw aways

    • #2542971

      I seriously prefer a larger desktop!

      by tomshotcash ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      As a person who works with and has always had a desktop pc at home and in business, I prefer the larger desktop in case I had to install or take out components. I hate the idea of opening a laptop or other small desktop due to concerns about pulling or jarring something else.

    • #2537916

      Cooling is a huge consideration

      by yanipen ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      I live in a tropical country. With Temperatures varying anywhere from 27 deg. cent. (rainy and christmas season) to 32-37 deg. cent. (ave. during summer).

      So cooling/ventilation and easy access for the “innards” are my criteria on buying chassis. USFF will not work for us. Although it is space saving, being that small will need a cooler environment. On the office, it might be (though I’d stick for component easy access), but for home use USSF is no good even if it has 3 years of warranty.

    • #2537907

      Things to consider

      by ozi eagle ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      Hi,

      I don’t have a recommendation one waY or the other, just some observations that may help you decide which way you wish to go.

      Your comment “However i have three years before anything could potentially fail.” is not quite correct – you have 3 years in which to get it repaired, no guarantees about how long to failures.

      I have always gone for desktops wherever possible for several reasons. Space, sit it on the desk in front of the user, place the monitor on top. The monitor uses about the same space as the desktop anyway, so both items use the same footprint.
      Users have easy access to the drives, on / switches USB ports.
      Dirt – you would be surprised in the difference placing a computer on a desk as compared to a tower on the floor, makes in accumulating dust bunnies ( or more like dust bears).
      Easily obtainable and inexpensive replacement parts.
      Lower heating problems – more space for air circulation.

      Herb

    • #2537754

      New Desktop Chassis

      by sisaacs ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      I use the SFF, I have no problems replacing failed parts. Its a good middle ground tower, not to small not to big.

      • #2528745

        Shuttle vs. Silverstone

        by lindsay.leung ·

        In reply to New Desktop Chassis

        So no problems with overheating?

        Also, in my earlier post when I said it was hard to find decent parts, I suppose I meant that it was hard to find high performance parts that would physically fit into the Shuttle case. For example, the most powerful PSU that I could find on the Shuttle website was 300W – hardly enough to run my 8800GTS video card (which also wouldn’t fit!)

        The new Silverstone replacement I bought is great. I just shopped for parts that I’d normally buy for a tower case. The only ‘SFF’ part I had to buy was a mini ATX mobo.

        I suppose that I am using my machine for a lot of gaming. For a machine of lower specs for other use, I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend the Shuttle. I certainly got a lot of use out of mine while it lasted!

    • #2581292

      Dell USFF problems we have

      by brad mankoff ·

      In reply to Buying new desktops – which chassis to choose

      We have been deploying Dell Optiplex 745 Ultra Small as standard systems for our general users. In relation to our other desktops these have a higher failure rate than any other computer from Dell. We have had many failures due to bad memory, motherboards and hard drives. Since they are under warranty it is not an issue but our users down time is important and very time consuming since IT has to deploy a loaner until their computer is repaired and the data transfer to the loaner and then back to their system after being repaired. Inprespective we also purchase Dell Optiplex 745 Mini-Tower and the failure rate is significantly less than the Ultra Small’s.

      • #2582904

        Honestly I am not fond of

        by w2ktechman ·

        In reply to Dell USFF problems we have

        ultra slim form factor (USFF) or (SFF) small form factor, or (USDT) ultra slim desktop.

        While they take less room, they are a hassle for additions except external.
        Also, they seem to have issues (as you said) with HW failures. In my experiences with them, they are a cheap, crap product meant just to give lower bids for contracts.

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