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  • #2184171

    Clueless in Seattle

    Locked

    by oz_media ·

    US police in Seattle asked Vancouver police to arrest political party leader and marijuana activist Marc Emery for extradition to the USA.

    Marc Emery was the pioneer of Vancouver Hemp Store and now operates Vancouver’s seed distribution store as well as being the BC Marijuana Party leader.

    Seattle police have had him arrested for his business that has been shipping seeds to multiple US states, other claims (not charges) were against money laundering and other smaller crimes.

    In Vancouver, Marc Emery is a VERY well known marijuana activist and leader of the Marijuana Party. Vancouver police have not arrested him to since 1999, for even though selling seeds IS illegal in Vancouver, they do not have substantial evidence of him as an individual committing the crimes.

    As a result of the arrests, people in Vancouver lined the sreet outside the seed bank and protest US police presence in Canada, though not a physical presence, they had ordered the arrest and this has infuriated many locals, who are already adamantly against US political actions.

    News footage showed Marc standing ouside of the police station in Nova Scotia, where he was attending the annual hempfest (there’s one in every province every year) that police turn a blind eye to, in fact they attend and control traffic and crowds during the annual parade and smoke-in. The RCMP officers allowed him have one last MASSIVE Bong hit before he turned around in submission for the officer to handcuff him. (Only in Canada they say, pity! 🙂 )

    Canadian news: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1122667113835_118076313/?hub=TopStories

    US news: http://www.komotv.com/stories/38267.htm

    Another Seattle report claims his business is shut down. Not realizing that it will only cause a dozen more to be opened now that the competition is gone. They also claim that because he is selling seeds to US grow ops, he is a drug dealer.

    http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_072905WAKpotarrestDS.2164f8ef.html

    But cannabis seeds are NOT really a drug, and he doesn’t technicallt sell a drug. The people who cultivate it strip only the intoxicating buds from the cannabis plants and sell them, are drug dealers.

    The guy that sells the guns may be breaking a law in some countries, but he is not a murderer unless he uses them to kill someone.

    The US news paints a far more condemning picture BUT there is little mention of the biggest argument against US presence in Canada to investigate the alledged crimes. Do they really want people to believe that Canadians feel this is okay and that nobody is pissed off at the US?

    I watched as the Seattle press conference claimed that they had finally captured him and he will suffer the steepest penalties and be shut down. This guy has been shut down before, he has evaded 11 similar charges based on looopholes, as he has a VERY high profile local lawyer. Seattle police are still extremely confident though.

    The US news clip also says that a handful of people were protesting his arrest outside the store. The news I watched showed a LOT of people congregated, flying US flags upside down and protesting with signs and full attention of the media. In the end the protest turned into arrests for impeding the police at the scene.

    I think the BIGGEST issue of all, is that he was ORDERED arrested after DEA agents had investigated his business. The thought of US police ordering the arrest a Canadian (icon) IN Canada was really just too much of the ‘US in Canada’s businesss’ for most to stomache.

    Apprently the issue is not even that he was selling seeds to some personal culivators in the USA but for providing seeds used by major marijuana grow operations in the USA, which for some bizarre reason US authorities think will be forced to shut down. Perhaps hey haven’t read Marc Emery’s magazines that provide outlets to buy seeds all over the world (as does the readily available, world famous High Times magazine) of all strains and with pictures and ratings of the quality.

    Perhaps US authorities just have no idea what they are up against, one man and one seed operation doesn’t even qualify as a spit in the bucket, in fact arresting Marc Emery wil only cause people to be even more blatant about selling seeds and promoting marijuana than ever before. Just as it did in 99 when he was arrested by Vancouver police and apparently was to have his sttore shut down. It will simply allow importers from Europe and other continents to start shipping mroe and more seeds to the US and Canada as the market is now wide open for them.

    This will be stopping large grow ops in the USA ? Pull the other one, they must be absolutely mad to believe it for 5 minutes, good luck with that Seattle. :^O

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    • #3182354

      nuke the usa!!

      by jaqui ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      they are breaking international laws by having thier police operating in canada, ordering the arrest of canadian citisens for breaking us laws while in canada.

      nuke the commie bas|ds!!!!

      😉

      it’s a prime example of the us screwing themselves world opinion wise.
      this is exactly the type of activity that promotes anti usa commentary, terrorist activities, and genral disgust with the usa.

      • #3182344

        No kidding

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to nuke the usa!!

        People would have been much mellower if this wasn’t a typical US overstepping thier boundaries issue.

        That first report makes it seem like a couple of people stood outside and rallied gainst it. It soon turned into a blockade that resulted in police arresting them in an aggrivated standoff.

        It’s just getting way out of hand, the US is in everyone’s business because any part of the worl around them that touches thier country in any way is immediately THIER business.

        Man, why don’t they just dig a big trench across the border and set the USA sailing south or something. They could completely isolate themselves from the rest of the world and do us all a favour. But then they wouldn’t be able to dominate consumption of the rest of the world’s resources I suppose.

        • #3182334

          ~chuckle~

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to No kidding

          talknig with me mac buddy about this.
          both of us want to find out who the dea and fbi agents working in vancouver are, so we can plaster thier faces all over the place.

          thinking about promoting hacking both agencies to pull agent database images, posting the entire dea and fbi rosters on billboards around town will get them out of here.

          us police in the usa, not in a separate country.

        • #3182230

          Typical

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to ~chuckle~

          It’s SO typical, this is just another blatant example of the US getting involved where it is niether welcome, justifiable or welcome.

          This is another issue that right-wing yankers will see as a needed and justified measure o the world police. World police wouldn’t be THAT unacceptable, if they weren’t so f*****g stupid to begin with.

          Scotland Yard wouldn’t be so bad, the baddis would be gone real quick and the people would be left alone, even THEY are unfavorable though, yet MUCH better than the USA trying to instill thier warped views on the rest of the world.

          If Americans are so proud of being individuals, so proud of thier freedom (that only applies IN America and doesn’t mean they have the freedom to do as they wish elsewhere)if they say everyone is jealous of America and they don’t need others, why do they spend all thier time trying to FIX other countries?

          Why don’t they, as I suggested before, just sperate themselves form the rest of the world and live in a giant two sided commune, not that America isn’t just a giant two-sided commune as it is.

          We’ll see Bush in 10 years being arrested while living in a trailer underground and commanding his followers like Waco. Hopefully someof our republican peers will be drinking the cool aidse too and we’ll find them all dead in a 50′ nmetal box buried underground. Just leave ’em be, where they belong.

        • #3182133

          did you see

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to Typical

          the front page of the sun this am?
          ( saturday issue )

          one of my neighbors is the guy holding the sign up in the photo.

        • #3195078

          Not yet

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to did you see

          Myffriends only get The Province delivered, but I’m heading out Richmond way today so I’ll keep an eye out for it.

          Would that be this guy?
          http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/idl/vasn/20050730/261923-84014.jpg

        • #3195075

          yup

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to Not yet

          that’s one of me neighbors.

          the entire building seems to think that it’s wrong for us agencies to be working in canada.

        • #3195066

          International cooperation

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Not yet

          I can understand international cooperation in some instances. Such as a terrorist or serial killer who is a great threat to the personal security of the world’s citizens.

          In such a case, I have no problem with forces ‘copoerating’ in the form of meetings and sharing important data to thwart thier movements.

          IN THIS case, it is just wrong, here’s another analogy;

          I build a website that promotes jay walking because I have a beef with a stop light not being installed in Vancouver. The website is globally available for viewing.
          If 1000 people in Oregon start jay walking and breaking the law to support MY cause in Vancouver US police would then be able to request MY extradition to US courts to hold responibility for people breaking the law in the USA.

          I know it SOUNDS extreme, but really it is no different.

          It’s just like the Sharman networks issue with Kazaa. You can’t extradite people from Australia and raid thier stores just because thier product finds it’s available for Americans to USE. Arrest the Americans who use it instead. Sharman networks isn’t breaking global laws.

          Where does it end? East indian men being brought to Vancouver for beating thier wives in India, as it is influencing Indians in Vancouver to do so too?

          The line will get smaller and smaller unless it is stopped, and yet they CLAIM they are NOT trying to be the world police?

        • #3182026

          Question about the law

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Not yet

          I don’t know if it is legal to buy and sell the seeds in the US or not. Sorry, just not up on my drug enforcement knowledge.

          IF it is illegal, then anyone importing this into the courty would be breaking the law.

          This all assumes that the sale of the seeds is indeed illegal.

          Sending something to a place where it is illegal IS breaking the law, not just the person recieving it. Just often harder to get your hands on.

          spammers for instance.

        • #3182008

          Yes

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Not yet

          For some reason selling seeds is illegal in Canada AND the USA. But it has been done for ever, not from Canada but by mail order from Amsterdam for years.

          WHy haven’t the US DEA agents started having people in Amsterdam arrested, their shops shut down and then have them extradited to the US for trial?

          Because Canada is RIGHT HERE! The pople are just like Americans and they bend over for American authority, well the government does anyway. I know quite a few RCMP who don’t like the amount of US intervention in Canadian law either.

          Criminals bring guns to Canada illegally, do we have the gun shop owners in the US arrested?

          Criminals will commit crimes nomatter who is put in jail, these grow ops of which they speak, are not going to be shut down if Emery is put ni jail. If they KNOW of these specific grow ops, why aren’t THEY shut down instead and put THEM in jailfor life due to cultivation for the purpose of trafficking?

          It’s much wasier to flex your might at another country as bein at fault that’s why. Why address a problem or even admit you have a problem when it canbe attributed as someone else’s fault?

          It’s pure denial, if it wasn’t for Canada these criminals wouldn’t exist? Who are they trying to kid this time?

          America needs some self evaluation, some REAL objective evaluation not just the ‘we are great, quick wave your flag’ type of self evaluation.

          You guys face some REAL problems with crime and violence that we don’t see here, where the problem is supposed to be originating. Time to stop the denial and fix your own country, then when you can set an example, use that example to influence others.

          Believe me, if you solve drug and crime issues as a nation, WITHIN your nation, others ARE going to be all ears.

        • #3182003

          Well that is a horse of whole different color

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Not yet

          If he broke the law, why are you suprised?

          The stance in the US is that track the drugs back to the source. Remember when we went down to panama? The only difference is WE didn’t go into Canada to get this guy.

          What you or I think about what he is doing doesn’t matter squat. If you break a law, someone somewhere is going to try to ding you on it.

          This really makes most of the discussion “pot should be legal in the US”, as that is what he was doing. Bringing pot into the US in seed form.

          As for the guns, if a DEALER is illegally selling firearms in Canada, you bet your a$$ I would want him sent up there for prosocution. There are already enought nuts looking for any excuse to ban all guns without letting someone else make EVERYONE look like a criminal.

          Like that a$$bag rosie odonal who wants all guns confiscated. “If you need help, call a cop”, yet she turns around and tries to get her bodyguard to get a concealed carry permit. It is good enough to defend her, but not anyone else. They have also shown that many of your ANTI-gunners own and carry a gun themselves.

          Just like many senators have been busted with drugs, yet they are the ones writing the anti-drug laws.

          Too many laws, too much government.

        • #3181764

          Guns

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Not yet

          I was touching on the point that ineastern Canada, where there are actually homcides by handgum, they are usually found to be people from teh US or guns from teh US not Canada that are killing Canadians.

          What I was getting at is a gun dealer selling someone a gun and then that person killing a Canadian with it, we should be looking for the killer not the arms dealer first.

          As for providing America with POT, that’s crao too. Seeds are not pot, and neither is the cannabis plant. It is the cultivation, removal of the buds and the selling of it that’s the problem, for some retarded reason, they actually think it will stop those major grow ops, now there;s a laugh. All it takes is five minutes on a search engine and your seeds ae on the way, from all over the world. As I said, are they gonna try bustin people in Amsterdam next? Never in a million years, Canada’s easy though.

        • #3195429

          re seed sales

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to Not yet

          Oz, it’s only illegal here if in suffiecient quantity to be cultivating for sale.

          small quantities aren’t illegal.

          you were at the track probably on canabis day. 😉
          they recount existing laws and highlight the limitations as well as changes to them.

          they stopped giving away a baggie of weed and started giving away a baggie of seeds, as it’s not prohibited.
          ( Canabis Day, july 1st at the art gallery here. )

        • #3195425

          Yeah I always miss them now

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Not yet

          That’s usually a key camping weekend. This year I was at Kensington lake with a few old friends from the interior.

        • #3195337

          Didn’t say “I” would prosocute anyone

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Not yet

          I asked if the sale of the seeds is currently illegal.
          You stated yes.
          This is grounds to arrest someone.
          Why the suprise?
          You not liking something holds no relevence. I don’t like the way our highways drom from 70mph to 55mph just because it is within so many hundreds of feet of population, dispite being enclosed with 8 foot walls on each side. If I choose to disregard this and get caught I will not win in court just because I don’t like that law.

          If you don’t like a law, you have to change it not disregard it. If it is legal in some places and not others then go to where it is legal or be prepared to deal with the consiquences of your chosen disregard.

          As for US guns, very few guns are legally purchased with the intent to commit a crime. The only way your claim would hold ANY merit would be if the dealer illegally sold a firearm to someone. This idea is as stupid as suing GM because a drunk driver took out your family with one of their cars.

          Illegal guns come from all over and end up all over. A tougher gun law would stop someone from using an illegal gun how? They don’t CARE if they are breaking a law, so the laws only end up restricting the people that wouldn’t be a threat in the first place, the law abiding citizen.

        • #3195330

          in response to the guns

          by itgirli ·

          In reply to Not yet

          I think that if they would just legalize pot, they would have far fewer shootings. Pot heads really don’t have the time or effort to kill someone when they are on a mission for fritos and M&Ms.
          Just my two cents.
          Not that I would know anything about it.
          I’ve heard stories.
          right.

      • #3182245

        world opinion wise…

        by absolutely ·

        In reply to nuke the usa!!

        As a US citizen, it is a case of just plain screwing ourselves, PLUS the effect to international relations!

        Or, more exactly, getting screwed by DC, plus…because nobody benefits from the War for Drugs except fearmongers and their paid assassins in the coercive, government-made monopoly called drug smuggling.

        Yes, the “tough on drugs” politicians are ALL in cahoots with South American revolutionary drug kingpins, and with Al Qaeda. There needn’t be a money trail: neither can exist without the other! Think about it.

        Al Capone [i]relied[/i] on Prohibition to skew supply/demand dynamics, which became statics for him, as always happens in illegal markets for products that are in demand. The USSR, I believe, tried to control the use of vodka. I hear it didn’t work there, either.

        Human nature — the full spectrum of human nature as expressed in the variety of people we all [i]know[/i] to exist within the gene pool’s variety — is a [i]metaphysical fact[/i], a constant, not a variable, and as such cannot be altered or abolished. But I know something that can!

        Legislation will not remove an economic demand, nor will [i]any[/i] level of brutality in enforcement. All attempts to negate or evade metaphysical facts, including the human desire for intoxication (occasional in some cases, constant in others) is [i]hopeless[/i].

        Would we be better off without addiction, or addicts?

        IRRELEVANT, WE WOULD BE A DIFFERENT SPECIES!

        • #3182232

          The War on Drugs

          by house ·

          In reply to world opinion wise…

          The drugs don’t promote violence, the war on drugs promotes violence.

          The US government spends way too much money on this issue, pointing its ugly finger at drug abuse and intoxication as the primary cause for the decay of their lesser fortunate areas, when in fact, this escape from reality is a direct result of the sh*tty state of affairs that has become of an abandonned society.

          The issue is simple – frightened right wing extremists with nothing better to do. For everyone’s sake, I hope that your country will spawn a few more brilliant democrats in the future. Though I am slightly conservative on the scale, there is an obvious lack of balance in the US right now.

          This is one pissed off Canadian. ]:)

        • #3182210

          house..

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to The War on Drugs

          it’s better to be pissed off than pissed on.

          unless you are into watersports

        • #3182190

          true, true, true…

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to The War on Drugs

          true on every count, house.

          And Jaqui, how true!

          I appreciate that you’re both pissed off. I feel like I’m being pissed on.

        • #3182134

          naw..

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to true, true, true…

          it’s the stupidity of the issue, caused by the us government, pissing on the government yup.

          ( my wife and daughter are amercian, can’t say I hate americans. 🙂 )

        • #3182119

          don’t worry

          by house ·

          In reply to true, true, true…

          I’ve got nothing against the US people. I’ve got something against a certain breed of people, which is not dominant in the US by any means, but seems to be representative of the country nonetheless. It is unfortunate.

        • #3195065

          So

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to don’t worry

          That still makes you Anti-American, by my study anyway. 😀

          I have concluded that if you hate all Democrats, they call you a wise neighbour, if you are against ANY Republicans, you are Anti-American.

          I just calls ’em as I see ’em. 🙂

        • #3195055

          So the Democrats

          by house ·

          In reply to So

          …are soon to be thrown in the can for treason and conspiring against the state?

          I understand what you are saying though. Even their own citizens are required to support the Republican administration, else they are accused of being unpatriotic and unsupportive of the troops overseas. Translation – Anti-American.

          Ask New York what they think. Hell, if anyone should be supporting this dual term circus act, it should be them. However, that is not the case. If only we could all breathe a little culture into these southern and mid-western apes. 😉

          I just realized that this crap doesn’t have much to do with Repiblican / Democratic politics – we’re going off on a rant here. heh.

        • #3182000

          Hopeless?

          by beads ·

          In reply to So

          Does this mean that, I, as an American can’t relieve myself of the burden of being American and go run to Canada when I can no longer tolerate the insane conservative politics of this country any more?!?

          Please say it isn’t so!

          Another embarassed American,

          – beads

        • #3053227

          Welcome

          by house ·

          In reply to So

          Though it’s a hell of a lot easier to travel North across the border than South these days. Once you get here, you may be stuck for a while so make it a good one.

          Just don’t do anything crazy, or we’ll ship you back. And believe me, you don’t want to be standing around while some suit with a broken marriage goes in full fist in the search for greens. 😉

    • #3182292

      Free Emery

      by house ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      There is way more pot going south than there are seeds. Why don’t they try to nail someone at the border? Instead of invading our country and snatching up our citizens? Why don’t they arrest their own citizens who are buying the seeds? Why don’t they just relax and twist one up…

      F*cking leave us alone. This is ridiculous. We can’t let our citizen go to face their overexagerated drug laws. This whole ordeal just doesn’t make any sense to me.

      Benson says, “…” who cares what Benson has to say. Why are US authorities accusing our citizens? Give me a friggin break. If MY dog shits in MY backyard, it’s MY BACKYARD. The ‘Seattle operations’ are just an excuse, and I’d be surprised to learn that they actually hold water.

      • #3182240

        Amsterdam

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Free Emery

        Seeing as the MAJORITY of theses seeds are available online or through several publications and advertised for sales globally through Amsterdam, would it be okay for US to go to Amsterdam and start arresting seed dealers? That would go down well I’m sure.

        Or why doesn’t the RCMP launch an undercover investigation into these known grow ops in the USA, that cause OUR citizens to break the law by selling seeds. I think our friends in the south would be more than happy to see our Mounted Police launching investigations in their country. Then we could simply order the state police to arrest these people on demand and extradite them to Canada to face a judge.

        Lets extradite Bush first and arrest him for being a dictator committing war crimes.

        Seeing as penalities are MUCH tighter in the US, why hasn’t the US just shut down these grow ops, once they are in jail for life (or on death row awating the chair) it would send out a FAR stronger message to US grow ops, Marc Emery is NOT the way to even begin to slow the sale of seeds to these people who can buy them all over the world anyway. Arresting Canadians is not even a partially sensible resolution.
        It’s lik ewhen they tried to have Sharman Networks in AUSTRALIA SHUT DOWN BECAUSE Americans were using thier file sharing program. A55holes should look at themselves first, but they never do, they don’t know HOW to look at themselves.

        They don’t realize that in Canada if they arrest a marijuana advocate, that all of those who follow him will automatically pick up the reigns even more blatantly than he did and do it in protest, whlie waving it in thier faces?

        Despite the fact that it is absolutely insane to try and enforce YOUR laws in another country that has fewer penalties, the whole THOUGHT process is ridiculous. How stupid can people be? I mean this is even below the mentality of a small child, who would know better. Goes to show the level of IQ these people possess, it’s equivalient to that of a rusty bottle opener.

        Just completely retarded, and people wonder why others oppose Bush’s mentality behind fighting the war on terrorism.

        In Canada, ‘we always get our man’

        In the USA, they have no idea who their man is, so they get everyone else and think it’s being clever and offering resolve.

        Complete retards, with absolutely NO clue where to turn next.

        ON another note, isn’t it cool how quickly and efficiently Scotland Yard nailed these guys in England? Now that’s targeting the right people in the right place for you. They didn’t just throw 50 muslims in jail saying ‘we are rounding them up’ and then go attack another country in hopes that they will catch some potential terrosits in the meantime.

        Every move Bush and the US authorities make, makes them an even bigger laughing stock for the rest of the world. Esapecially as they love to televise these morons and provide a warped view of the story to make it appear intelligent and the best thing for Americans. Yet when we see the full reports and video we can actually see the bigger picture that America doesn’t want people to see.

        Petty soon we’ll see them driving into combat zones in a Hummer and 25 men will pop out making ballon animals and tooting bicycle horns.

        How about, F**K OFF, they aren’t welcome ANYWHERE in the world now. Thank the government for that one, instead of blaming those who oppose the actions.

    • #3182231

      I hope this thread…

      by house ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      …will attract some of those needle nosed republicans that flamed everyone during the Bush campaign. I’d love to read their tight ass*d remarks right about now, just to reinforce my hatred for this administration. 😉

      • #3182229

        They run in fear

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to I hope this thread…

        In most cases they will defend even the most absurd actions, but ones like this are simply not defendable.

        They avoid discussions where they actually have to face the music, if it’s undesireable, ignore it and pretend it isn’t there, as Bush has taught them well.

        Head in the sand, while saying what’s wrong with everyone else.

        Maybe time for a new bumper sticker.

        “Have you beaten the snot out of a Republican today?”

        “Help save the whales, kill a Republican”

        “Support drug control, kill the right wing”

        “Support the free world, get rid of Bush”

        “Support gun control, shoot a righty”

        Bunch of clowns. yet they feel they are so right, that’s the most aggravating part, how stupid and misguided they are.

        • #3182220

          haha

          by house ·

          In reply to They run in fear

          For some reason though, I can still see them justifying this action in their narrow skulls. I’ll be really surprised if one of them doesn’t stick his ugly head in here to say “well… it’s wrong because the law says it’s wrong” – or to even go so far as to attack drug use and distribution as the root of all that is evil in this world.

          There is a big difference between laws and morals, and their failure to see that difference is one of the primary reasons for the world’s rejection of Republican thought. Their laws aren’t made to protect people, they are made to widen the gaps between the various classes in western civilization.

          A blind man with a weapon cannot differentiate between an attacker and a common citizen. Open your f*cking eyes before you run out of excuses, else you’ll have your cival war.

        • #3182204

          I can just see it

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to haha

          American troops doing door to door searches in Port Hardy.

          “Hey, get the f**k out of my house a**hole, I’m trying to watch golf you over zealous clown! And whie you’re at it, go home and shoot that stupid Bush bastard, you cornfed, right wing dork. Don’t let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out!”

          It wouldn’t exactly be like walking into some mud hut full of people who don’t know who the hell you are or what language you speak.

          Mind you, they probably wouldn’t get off of the ferry anyway, they’d be busy going back and forth taking pictures and wondering why they were lied to all these years.

          Oh well, if only I could say ‘to each his own’, but that doesn’t apply in the US does it?

      • #3194932

        Only half right

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to I hope this thread…

        (get it, RIGHT?)

        Tight assed, yes, I like girls.

        This isn’t a Republican/Democrat issue, which suprises me that OZ isn’t knowledgable enough about the US to know that? Truly a disappointment the lack of understanding about this issue.

        Democrats had the white house for 8 years, and they went after the same “war on drugs”.

        It is lack of understanding by the general public. What we see is what is on TV about the violence that surrounds the drug houses (yes, we have a lot of drug violence, take a walk through Flint or Detroit and try to tell me otherwise).

        Of course, that fact that the drugs are illegal so it is rival gangs that have to fight for teritory that most of the violence comes from, not the average user. If legal, then people would not fight over being able to sell on this or that corner because you could get it cheaper and safer at the local RX.

        Cause and effect. Do drugs create violence or does the illegalness of the drugs create violence? Most people, INCLUDING DEMOCRATES just don’t look that closely.

        But it is yet another thing for a certain Bush HATER to go off on? How can someone go through life carrying so much hate for someone they have never gotten divorced from? Grow up.

        • #3194803

          It was just a rant

          by house ·

          In reply to Only half right

          Treat it like a conversation among friends. I don’t really hate Republicans, or even Bush himself for that matter. It just makes me shudder to sit back and watch the Orwellian dystopia unfold. I can see a difference between ‘needle nosed Republicans’ and plain old ‘Republicans’. Like everything else, they cannot be generalized. It was not an attack on the US, it was an attack on an ideology that is difficult to narrow down, and is not definitive of all who wear red. In any case, it was just a rant, though I did succeed in pulling one of the blind followers out of the woodwork (not you).

          – – – – – – – – –

          Violent people are violent by nature, and it has nothing to do with drugs. Narcotics are simply the business that they’ve chosen.

          A few months ago, some psycho shot up the Alberta police while they raided his grow-op near Edmonton. During the week to follow, some people were blaming pot as the reason for the deaths of the officers, and demanded stiffer penalties for the cultivation of marijuana. This type of thinking is what really gets my goat. “Let’s push more resources into the war on drugs – this would never have happened if we had more stern regulations and penalties relating to the production and distribution of marijuana.”

        • #3182084

          Observations

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to It was just a rant

          First, from reading your other replies it is understood this wasn’t declairing war on the Republican nation. 🙂

          Second, yes I saw you drag that one out from under some rock. Throw it back.

          Third, drug violence. Didn’t that also start up the anti-gun groups as well? After all, if a gun was illegal then that drug dealer would not have used it because there would be a law saying so? Oops, forgot. Gun laws only affect people that obey the laws in the first place.

          Fourth, Rant on my friend, rant on.

        • #3182051

          Interesting

          by house ·

          In reply to Observations

          People, myself included, have made the connection that strong arming the drug community would only increase it’s distribution, while also instigating a more serious breed of criminal activity. However, stiffer gun regulations in Canada haven’t increased violence and crime in any way. Now I’m confused.

          And you are so right in that ‘laws don’t affect criminals’. The way I see it, more severe sentensing will only cause more severe reactions when one finds himself stuck in a corner. So why not relax the laws that are not really moral issues in the first place. If I have a joint in my hand, and you’re coming at me with a summary conviction, such as a fine, I would be more submissive than if you were threatening me with life imprisonment. It is human nature to sustain one’s life. 25 years? – you may as well kill me before I kill you.

        • #3182035

          BINGO!

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Interesting

          The tougher the penalties, the more of a cornered rat they will be and that is how you got your shoot out. It really is now a “nothing to loose” situation.

          I apply a very similar method with the rasing of my boys. I have less rules than the soon-to-be-EX does, but I am more concistent with the enforcement of the rules that I do have. I also have a REASON for the rules and this reason is explained so as to be understood rather than just being on the rag or “because I said so”.

          The more rules you have, the more rules you must enforce. If you don’t enforce the rules, you are undermining your own authority and crediblity.

          Don’t make a rule you can’t enforce.
          Don’t make a rule you can’t justify.
          Don’t make a rule you break yourself.

        • #3195108

          One more, for government.

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to BINGO!

          Don’t make a rule that diminishes liberty more than it protects it.

          Whose liberty, whose rights are advanced by this insane “War on Drugs”?

          Sober folks? Sorry, they are at risk of drive-by shootings [i]only[/i] because the prices of a few intoxicants are inflated by government interference in a market that worked without violence when it was governed only by the Invisible Hand. It’s admittedly a small risk for people who live in a “safe neighborhood, I’ll grant, but whatever risk is involved is [i]entirely created[/i] by the DEA’s interference in a phenomenon they have now proven for 30 years to be unable to deter in any way but to shift popularity from one drug to another. That is not progress.

      • #3194887

        What an anti US rant

        by ben “iron” damper ·

        In reply to I hope this thread…

        Dang no wonder here in the US people can’t stand Canadians, your all a bunch of terrorist supporting A-holes. Not to mention your biggest claim to fame is that c@nt Celine Deion.

        • #3194873

          Correction

          by house ·

          In reply to What an anti US rant

          Your type hates Canadians. Did I generalize the States in any way? I don’t think so.

          So Oz was right after all…

          “I have concluded that if you hate all Democrats, they call you a wise neighbour, if you are against ANY Republicans, you are Anti-American.”

          I then rolled back my attack a little bit because it is NOT a Republican / Democrat issue.

          “I understand what you are saying though. Even their own citizens are required to support the Republican administration, else they are accused of being unpatriotic and unsupportive of the troops overseas. Translation – Anti-American.

          I just realized that this crap doesn’t have much to do with Repiblican / Democratic politics – we’re going off on a rant here. heh.”

          Am I not allowed to express my point of view without being deemed a ‘terrorist lover’? Grow up. The issue has nothing to do with Bush, and not all Republicans are useless – I’m not that narrow minded. The only reason that I dropped the name was because I knew that the minds would flock on over here to spit their two cents on this thread. I want to hear some intelligent feedback on the issue at hand. What are your thoughts on the whole ordeal?

          Ps – The Celine Dion comment just goes to show the ‘worldly nature’ of your point of view. Get a life. Canada has nothing to with Celine Dion, besides the fact that she grew up here.

        • #3194821

          Any country that can

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Correction

          make a hottie like Shanna Twain can’t be all bad! Of course you do need to hit the mute button so you can enjoy her videos! Woo Woo!

          On the other hand, there is still that Brian Adams issue….. (via South Park) “with your flappy little heads” :^O

        • #3194806

          The repub slant

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Any country that can

          Yes, I think everyone is aware that the US policy (regardless of who holds office) has been a war on drugs.

          I think the issue being referred to though is that it’s always the TR republicans that think anything they do, no matter how far they are overstepping international boundaries is justifiable.

          It’s the republicans here that feel they have a right to enforce thier laws or beliefs elsewhere and that anything they do is correct.

          It’s nothing to do with Bush directly really, but he is the grand pooh bah of the mindset referred to above. Sig Heil, mein furor Bush!

          As for the violence of turf wars and drug houses in America, we are discussing the marijuana trade, not crack, coke or ice here.

        • #3194774

          Thank you

          by house ·

          In reply to The repub slant

          I couldn’t word that any better myself. I was looking for the right way to explain my thoughts without generalizing all Repubs. Anyways, the issue does not involve these types of politics, I just went off on a tangent while trying to define the type of person that would be for the extradition of Emery, as well as the type of person who believes that someone should face life in prison for the distribution of seeds.

        • #3194751

          There WAS mention of legalization for all

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to The repub slant

          so that is why I added the additional vices.

          And there are still turf wars for marijuana, as well as many ad campaigns against pot. I personally am confused why that seems to be the biggest target around here when it isn’t the [b]leader[/b] of most violence in neighborhoods.

        • #3182065

          Some people

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to There WAS mention of legalization for all

          Still believe it is a gateway drug. Cimpletely ignoring the fact that it is people ‘seeking’ a gateway that have the problem.

          I know why you brought it up, but I must explain the differences when it is raised as that’s what too many people, NOT in the know think. Such as those who lump it together as one problem.

          WHY do people use drugs should be more of a concern that what drugs lead to what. That’s easy, drugs let us escape pressures. Just like having a beer or two after work.

          One could just as easily say that beer is a gateway drug, it leads to hard alcohol drinking and alcohol abuse, NO KIDDING! But it’s not the beer that does it, it’s the person driunking the beer that needs help. IN the US, it seems that if the government spends tax money to help try to FIX these individuals, the right wing goes crazy! THAT’S MY MONEY THAT I EARNED!

          But they have no problem spending all the money, make that wasting all the money, on a war against drugs, which has lost more money for the US than if the government had been buying everyone in the nation free lottery tickets each week.

          Fix the poeple and you reuce the problems.

          Acohol causes far more problems in America AND Canada that selling pot seeds or cultivating marijuana has or will ever do.

          They see a LOT of money going into a Canadian business, and THAT is wrong, unless the US government is cashing in somehow.

        • #3048373

          Pot is not the leader of violence…

          by jessie ·

          In reply to There WAS mention of legalization for all

          I’ve NEVER in my life seen a mean stoner. I’ve seen LOTS of mean drunks, and crack-heads and freaks on acid trips… but never in my life have I seen a mean stoner. They’re more likely to neglect their kids than beat them… not that that’s much better.

        • #3182082

          Extradition

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to The repub slant

          Now lord knows I don’t always think the US is right.

          But if Canada is arresting someone and shipping them to the US, then its because of a mutual agreement. Canada and the US have extradition treaties, and there are rules and exceptions.

          Canada does not hand over someone just for the asking. They must judge whether there is sufficient evidence for trial. And Canada will not extradite someone to the US if they will face the death sentence.

          But in general there is a reciprocal arrangement – we will arrest and ship to each other. Now the US CANNOT try someone for crimes committed elsewhere, unless its one of those international human rights violations(like Spain and Pinochet). So the US must have some evidence that the person in question violated US law in the US. If he shipped seeds to someone in the US that might qualify.

          James

        • #3182071

          Another side is

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Extradition

          if the Canadian government WANT to do something to stop his business but because of political fall out can’t or won’t?

          Everyone is pissed at the US anyways, so let them take the heat for taking care of our problem? My understanding is your government has tried to stop him more than once?

          Just a thought, because as you very acurately pointed out there would be no extradition if they didn’t have what the Canadian government felt was a valid case.

        • #3182059

          That’s the line

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Extradition

          Sharman networks was APPRENTLY making thier software available for people in Caliornia and that’s where a great deal of copyright abuse was being performed.
          Therefore the US tried to have Sharman networks face trial in California, not gonna happen.

          Yes they said that in this case, the courts did place a bench warrant out for Emery based on the recommendations of US authorities.

          He should therefore be tried in Canada, it’s a Canadian warrant.

          As always, it’s the people expecting government to act on thier behalf that creates these issues, they simply cannot see the problem is in thier own backyard and they always seem to look at the most bizarre reasons for internal issues. When it’s right under thier nose the whole time.

        • #3182050

          Appeals

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Extradition

          In fact you can legally appeal extradition. I do recall a case where Canada was extraditing someone who was later convicted of murder. He was wanted in Canada for assault, and he asked for the right to stand trial for his Canadian crimes before being sent to the US. It didn’t fly. The crown had the right to defer its trial.

          It was appealed again. Canada did have the right to be reasonably “satisfied” that the evidence was sufficient for trial – in other words, if the same evidence was presented to a Canadian judge, a trial would happen. And in that case he lost the appeal and was sent south. You may think its funny, but I can tell you that on criminal matters, both our systems are based on British common law, and its not out of line to draw a US precedent(though British ones are preffered to American in Canadian courts).

          James

        • #3182046

          JD

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Extradition

          The canadian government has passed laws based on the best interests and desires of the people of Canada.

          If hat means they can’t keep someone in jail that they would LIKE to, then so be it, it’s doesn’t really show a flawed system. These aren’t antiquated laws that we hang onto from our past.

          SO if the peoplein Canada want that freedom, if th government comes to a majority vote and passes a law allowing such issues to go with very minor penalties then that’s the way it must be. We can’t say, ‘yeah but I really wish we could lock him up anyway’. That is not the law here.

          There are a couple of reasons this has been allowed:

          The Canadian government has it’s head so far up US arses that it can’t see the light until the US opens it’s mouth.

          The Candian government is sick and tired of such a clever man using his freedoms to see his way safely around poorly formed Canadian laws. Sick him on the US and let them deal with him for a while. Not realizing just how muchinfluence this ONE man actually has when he addresses the people, he will find a similar following/support in the US, especially in Seattle as he does here. I don’t know howmany Americans I’ve met when Vancouver has it’s annual hemp parade and smok-in.

          It’s a great booking opportunuty for local bands too.

          But these smoke-in’s and hemp fests go in in many states too each year, just a litle quieter and more low profile than here, where it gets news airtime and front page of all local newpapers, not in protest of the event but in support of the flawless way it goes off each summer and how cooperative police are, not making arrests but just there in case of troubles.

          Emery hits the states, I wondr if he is making up North American tour t0shirts now. Damn, could’ve got in on that one!

        • #3182033

          But he WAS a thorn

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Extradition

          Even though the laws have been changed, do you really think that a political enemy would get away like that? Once you make an enemy, they will FIND a way to get you. I would say they found their way, wouldn’t you?

          Who is laughing now, Emery or the officials that tried to stop him before?

        • #3182031

          Emery is still laughing

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Extradition

          And don’t ever think otherwise, you’d be the fool.

        • #3182027

          Emery is

          by house ·

          In reply to Extradition

          Damn Oz – you beat me to it. There is a video link of Emery on CTV or CBC… anyways, you can get to it from the front page of Pot-TV. It shows Emery taking a bong hit from a local supporter while the police are escorting him into the court.

          Did the police arrest the person who packed the bowl? No. Did this bong hit count towards his alleged crimes? No. This recent fiasco seems to be a political move that I’ve yet to decipher. More than likely, it’s Canada bending over to take it up the shoot.

        • #3182021

          Right there

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Extradition

          on the first CTV link on the first post.

          It says he was not being arrested for anything he did in Canada, but for what he allegedly did in the US, including not only seed distribution but money laundering.

          If Emery was laundering money in the US……

          James

        • #3182014

          Missing my point

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Extradition

          The people who WRITE laws are not the same people who ENFORCE laws.

          Just because the laws have changed, does not mean the people who have tried to prosecute him in the past don’t still want him out of the way.

          Sure is flattering to think that the US is so domanate over Canada that they will cater to our every whim, regardless of being justified by law or not? I somehow have a hard time believing that is the case, but it sure gave me a chuckle for a few minutes.

          “Thank you sir, may I have another?” :^O

        • #3194800

          I apologize..

          by house ·

          In reply to Any country that can

          ..for Bryan Adams. 🙂

        • #3194760

          Now Now

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to I apologize..

          He is represented yb a fariely good acquaintance and really clever man that most people hate. (my kinda guy 🙂 )

          He’s worked his little a55 off to get to his post, he’s written some good music, some we….you know. But he’s a very hard working and generous performer. No I don’t care for his work opver the last 10 years either, but he’s one hell of a nice guy with one hell of a bull pulling his wagon.

        • #3194753

          So he is…

          by house ·

          In reply to Now Now

          I still like picking on him though. I like the old eighties tunes, but can do without his newer stuff.

          I remember seeing a small documentary on his music. When he started out, apparently he couldn’t hit a single note on vocals. It takes a lot of work to be a singer / songwriter when you don’t have a knack for singing in the first place.

        • #3182042

          You mean like

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Now Now

          Bob Dylan, Niel Young?

          Great songwriters, and apparently great performers too?

          Bryan Adams is a god eprformer though, a good advocate for the causes he supports and Canada in general. On teh two brief occasions when I’ve met him, both in early to mid 80’s, he’s been an upstanding and very nce guy. His concerns and comments are genuine, he’s not flash, he’s not gliter, he’s just a guy who writes great music, even if it has left the realm of my personal taste.

        • #3182039

          God Performer?

          by house ·

          In reply to Now Now

          I wouldn’t go that far. I hope that was another typo. heh.

          He is a good guy. I just wish the CRTC wouldn’t hammer our poor ears with his music everyday.

        • #3182029

          Adams

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Now Now

          He puts on a rocking show, he gets the entire audience involved, he is great on a stage, he works the band he works the crowd, he’s not just famous because he’s overplayed, that’s usually more detrimental than anything else, as you show in your own comments.

        • #3182024

          Overplayed

          by house ·

          In reply to Now Now

          is an understatement. Like any other music, it is detrimental to their fan base. I’m tired of hearing Rush at noon everyday.

          I never get sick of the Hip though.

        • #3194748

          Accepted

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to I apologize..

          not that I really have anything against him or his music. I never listen to a station that would play him in the first place. Just had that movie on my mind and so it seemed to fit! B-)

          I really didn’t even know he HAD any new music! Now THAT is funny.

        • #3182091

          yeah

          by house ·

          In reply to Accepted

          Some poor pop-blues exploration from the late nineties. “The only thing that looks good on me… ta-ta-ta… is you!” Nothing spectacular.

          We have the unfortunate situation of CRTC legislation that enforces a certain percentage of Canadian content on the radio. It wouldn’t be so bad if they played some decent Canadian music. Instead, we are stuck with the likes of Shania, Celine, and yes… good ol’ Bryan Adams. And even that wouldn’t be so bad if they were thrown around with a bit of variety. 🙁

        • #3195329

          Prepare to Recieve Our Transmission

          by bfilmfan ·

          In reply to I apologize..

          We are sending William Shatner BACK to you even as we speak…

        • #3196294

          ack!!!!

          by house ·

          In reply to Prepare to Recieve Our Transmission

          He remade Pulp’s ‘Common People’ ala Lou Reed. You can keep it.

        • #3181995

          Sure

          by ben “iron” damper ·

          In reply to Correction

          Grow up huh? Sure thing, I promise to grow up when you promise to stop supporting terrorists.
          Something tells me you have a huge stack of Celine Deion CD’s.

        • #3181987

          Rational arguments

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Sure

          If Celine Dion had such a loyal fan base in Canada, she would not have setup more or less permanent residence in Las Vegas. Guess those Las Vegas loving, Celine Dion CD buying americans support terrorists huh?

          As for Canada supporting terrorists, tell that to the widows of the Canadian troops killed in Afghanistan.

          Think Canada is soft on terror? One of Canada’s most Famous Prime Ministers was Pierre Eliot Trudeau, a “reformed” socialist. When there were two political kidnappings in Quebec in October 1970, he invoked the war measures act, in essense martial law. We had armoured personel carriers patrolling Ottawa streets, police had unrestricted arrest and search and seizure powers.

          Tell me how Canada supports terrorists, without using Bill O’reilly to make your argument for you.

          James

        • #3181915

          I can’t

          by house ·

          In reply to Sure

          stop supporting terrorism and buying Celine Dion CDs. I’m a Canadian. Remember? It’s in our blood.

          – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

          Dallas Stars? I should have known. Go Leafs Go!!!!

        • #3051788

          That’s BS, House

          by dmambo ·

          In reply to I can’t

          “Go Leafs Go!!”

          I’ve sat back and read the vitriol spewed forth in this thread without too much comment, but now you’ve gone too far.

          GO HABS, GO!!!!!!!!!!!

        • #3051527

          I’ve got one word for you

          by house ·

          In reply to That’s BS, House

          😉

          [b][u][i]LEAFS[/i][/u][/b]

          Now, I suppose you’ll bring up the cup thing?!?! You guys always bring up the cup thing.

          I have to hand it to you though – I know some hab fans who have switched it up over the past few years – no loyalty. I’ve been a Leafs fan since I could walk – back before the John Brophy days – man – you know I’m in for the long haul.

          When I was younger, my mom’s ex dropped a good 40 bucks on some Montreal pj’s for me straight from the Forum back in the early 80’s. They stayed in the package for at least 5 years before we got rid of them. Nice try buddy.

          I just saw buddy’s Dallas post on the hockey thread. It just justified his earlier comments over here. Now I understand where he is coming from.

        • #3052089

          And just keep on going

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to I can’t

          Everyone knows that the Wings are going to take it AGAIN this year! :X

          Been around too much decriminalized marydoyouwanna cigarettes or what? Maybe bumped your head? ;\

          I wonder if you got a blood transfusion if we could “fix” the canadianism out of you? :^O

        • #3052087

          Who did that tune?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to And just keep on going

          Was it Cheech ?

          “Marydo youwanna?”
          “Yeah, Marydoyouwanna!”

          “Mary do you wanna take your mother to the GANGBANG, the gangbang….”

        • #3051914

          JD, You don’t know nuthin’

          by dmambo ·

          In reply to And just keep on going

          The wings will be known as the gs after this season, as I don’t think they have much “win” in them. They are old and too deep into the salary cap to do much about it.

        • #3051854

          Wings?

          by house ·

          In reply to And just keep on going

          I think that there are more Canadians who play for the Wings than the Leafs. The Wings have always had a huge Canadian roster.

          I don’t mind Detroit though. They’re right on the border and part of the original six. The Wings were only second to Montreal as far as Leaf rivals were concerned when I was growing up, so I’ve a rich enough history with them to respect the organization as a REAL hockey team.

          Though the southern teams have players who play for the game itself, I often question their fan base. Hell, it was cheaper to fly from Calgary to Tampa and back with room and board than to try to snag tickets in Alberta during the last cup.

        • #3050983

          GOT TO GIVE ME THE WINGS

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to And just keep on going

          It isn’t like I can be a football or baseball fan and still root for the home team, now can I?

          So what is a fella to do?

          Gooooo Wings!

          It really is a shame that they have us in the western division. I would MUCH rather watch us play the canuk teams! Not to mention, the games are on at a normal time! time zones are too big of a hassle when it comes to hockey.

          But being VERY new as a fan, no, I don’t know much about the teams or how they will stack up this year. Give a noobie a break! Better late than never, right?

        • #3050832

          Welcome

          by house ·

          In reply to And just keep on going

          Though you missed the richer parts of the game. Like any other sport, it’s big business now. I remember when American networks started the ‘streaking’ puck and the little light to help the noobs keep an eye on the puck. I knew then that the game was sliding. Oh well. Enjoy. Best sport in the world.

        • #3047009

          I pity you.

          by nighthawk808 ·

          In reply to Sure

          That was the most intelligent argument any George W(oron) Bush lover has ever made. Now that is truly sad, and a reflection on all you tobacco-chewin’, gun-totin’, sister-kissin’, moonshine drinkin’, Bush-votin’ red states. You want to stop supporting terrorists? Stop votin’ Ruhpublicain, y’all. So don’t just grow up, Ben, grow the fsck up.

          To the rest of the world: half of the country voted Bush. Half of any population will be below average. Any connection?

          The good news is, half of the country voted against Bush. That would be the half whose IQ’s are above 100. Not all Americans are bigoted, brain-damaged terrorists who couldn’t find Europe on a labeled map. Just the ones with the R after their name. Many of us agree with the famous headline from the London Daily Mirror, “How could 59,054,087 be so dumb?”

          The saddest thing is that I have to apologize to the rest of the world for the dumb decision made by only half of us yet affects all of us–including those in other countries who had no say in the matter.

        • #3046976

          Well

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to I pity you.

          At least you stand up to be counted, aren’t afraid to call it as YOU see it and not how you are supposed to see it.

          Electing Bush wasn’t really THAT bad, people are often mislead into voting, then the person shows his real colours and people feel ‘ripped off’.

          What wrecked my head was that Americans elected Bush not once but TWICE!! Now, I just can’t fathom that. You are all supposed to be this politically savvy and aware bunch, in this case you have portayed yourselves as the most clueless and easily imfluenced bunch of morons on the planet. No offense to you personally, you know exactly who I am referring to.

          I just couldn’t believe people wanted this guy back after all the credibility he should have lost in his first BS term.

        • #3052034

          On behalf of my country, I apologize.

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to What an anti US rant

          It’s only because of the availability of red maple leaf patches, flags and stickers that any of us can travel to other continents at all! (and live to tell about it) Our country is known worldwide as the home of “people” like “Ben Damper Leto”. It’s always the noisiest ones that attract the most attention.

          And whether you like Celine Deion (sic) or not, it is the United States fame factory that got her voice into every mall, radio playlist and Bar Mitzvah, not the Canadian lust for world supremacy.

        • #3051913

          You know something?

          by dmambo ·

          In reply to On behalf of my country, I apologize.

          Absolutely, sometimes, just sometimes, you’re OK. 🙂

        • #3051856

          I have to admit

          by house ·

          In reply to On behalf of my country, I apologize.

          ..I was trolling for that one. I thought it would be good for a laugh. I guess that makes me no better. 😉

          That was the ‘definitive’ response to this thread that I was expecting. Sorry. Heh.

        • #3053030

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to On behalf of my country, I apologize.

    • #3182108

      september 9 2005

      by jaqui ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      rally at us consulate in vancouver to protest this.
      ( being organised by the group that were responsable for the rally at the hemp shop )

      thinking a few us “stars ‘n stripes” going up in smoke until the us police forces are pulled from canada might also help get the point across.

      or else the rcmp have officers arresting us citizens for breaking canadian laws in the us.
      like promoting hate based on sexual orientation..then bush can be arrested, extradited and tried….

      • #3195095

        From what I gather…

        by house ·

        In reply to september 9 2005

        The RCMP was working in conjunction with the DEA. At first, I didn’t like the idea of America agents in our country investigating our citizens. Now, I don’t really like the fact that the RCMP and the Canadian government played no part in protecting Emery.

        In fact, the RCMP were the ones who arrested Emery in order to have him extradited to the US. Why are we not protecting our own here? No balls, I tell ya. 🙁

        I have read a few different accounts here;

        1) Vanvouver police have raided Emery’s seed bank while RCMP took him into custody in Halifax under the direction of Seattle DEA in order to have him extradited to the US.

        2) The DEA raided Emery’s seed bank while the RCMP nabbed him in Halifax in order to have him extradited to the US.

        3) The Vancouver police and RCMP have done this on their own accord, and now the US demands extradition for the distribution of seeds.

        In any account, we have no balls. Option 2 gives us the US grossely overstepping their boundaries, while option 1 gives us the US overstepping their boundaries, but not without consent of our government. Option 3… well… I don’t believe a bit of option 3.

        chris

        • #3195076

          from what I’ve heard

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to From what I gather…

          the entire investigation was fbi and dea.
          vcpd only went into the store, as backup for dea and fbi, and only when ottawa ordered it.

          I still say that us policing in canada demands reprisals or equal in exchange.

          ie rcmp operating in the usa or nuke the states.

        • #3194981

          well

          by house ·

          In reply to from what I’ve heard

          I have to say that I’m surprised at the whole scene in BC over the past couple of days. Living in Ontario, I’d orginally thought that most of BC and Alberta were right wing, and that the west felt abandonned throughout this Liberal reign, leaving them to draw closer to American influence and the more conservative views that are representative of Mr Harper’s government.

          Are there groups of people out west who believe that Emery should go south to face his crimes? It wasn’t too long ago that a pot farmer shot up the police in northern Alberta. They made the bonehead connection between drugs and violence back then, when in fact it had nothing to do with weed at all. The guy was a psycho. Plain and simple.

        • #3194816

          haven’t

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to well

          heard any support for the states in this.

          western canada does get ignored by ottawa.
          a good example of it is the coast guard and naval deployments….
          less than 1/3 of the ships are here, with 60%+ of illegal shipping traffic on this coast.

          since Vancouver has the puest drugs in the country, being the import center for the country, you would think that they would make sure there were more resources to stop the coke and heroin from getting in.
          ( the drugs in canada are purer than in the states, and bc has the purest..
          you can see it on the streets, someone from easter canada gettingloaded into meat wagon cause thier normal 3 point whack of down killed them here.. it was like doing 6 points of stuff from out east.

        • #3195073

          It was Ben Dover and Phillip McAvity

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to From what I gather…

          (say it fast a few times)

          As for DEA in Canada, we do need to draw the line on international investigations.

          The US raises a huge fuss when investigations are to be carried out by RCMP in the USA, in fact it almost never happens anymore. BUT, they expect explicit joint coperation when it comes to THIER watching us. It’s one sided as always.

          THey want to see everyone’s hand but refuse to show thier own.

          Security? Well yes it is…so why would you expect others to play along too?

          The Seattle DEA ordered his arrest, the RCMP executed his arrest.

          IO think the RCMP are getting fed up of raiding him and having him released so quickly.

          Even though he is arrested now, they still have to get extradition, which he will inevitably fight also now that he’s arrested.

          I BELIEVE he has Phil Rankin as one of his key attorneys (might not be abymore) Phil doesn’t let anyone get mistreated by ‘the system’ though so who knows.

          What gets me is the OBJECTIVE and cocky US agents who claim that this will stop these operations in the USA.

          Emery used to import seeds from well knownsed banks around the world. ALl of these banks also ship seeds globally and advertise in High Times. These people will just buy from the source, even though a lot of the speed and conveniece of dealing with a well known company is ‘paused’ for the present time.

          Here’s todays news:

          “It’s really an attack on our sovereignty.”

          The search was requested by the U.S. government through the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, a federal law administered by the Department of Justice.

          The warrant was authorized Thursday in B.C.’s Supreme Court, based on an affidavit provided by a Vancouver police officer.

          U.S. authorities say the warrant was the result of an 18-month investigation of Emery’s international seed-selling business.

          The investigation involved about 38 DEA offices across the U.S. and allegedly linked marijuana seeds sold by Emery to indoor grow operations in several states, including New Jersey, Michigan and Florida.

          Jeff Sullivan, assistant U.S. attorney, alleged Friday during a news conference that more than 75 per cent of the seeds sold by Emery were sold to people in the U.S., and Emery was making about $3 million a year selling seeds and marijuana-growing equipment.”

          >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Americans should like this guy, capitalism at it's best, I bet Bush would be jealous.

        • #3181989

          Bush… jealous?

          by beads ·

          In reply to It was Ben Dover and Phillip McAvity

          Only if you could squeeze light Brent crude oil out of the seeds. Then! He would be jealous.

          Is it me or does most of this sound rather misdermeanor but on my much ‘grander’ scale?

          – beads

    • #3194960

      The only assertion that would be incorrect

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      If you sell seed that grow a plant that is what is concidered a “controlled substance”, then that IS a drug dealer.

      He should have known better than to sell the seeds in regions where it isn’t legal.

      If he used FedEx or UPS, then he would have saved himself possible federal charges of send this through the mail. They could really do things bad if you send ANYTHING suspect over state/country lines through the US mail.

      He should have just let people come up and buy from his store if not in Canada. I have had several products I wanted, (LEGAL) but the places couldn’t send it across the boarder. But if I drove up there I could walk in and get it anytime I want. Madness.

      Pot has a bad stigma in the US, and that has been a big factor of stopping the legalization. Too many pictures of smelly hippies from the 70’s? That and the inability to keep morons from stepping up trying to be a spokesman for it rather than well spoken, up standing citizens doing the talking. If you look and sound like a loser, you hurt the message your trying to get out. Lots of people here hurting that message here.

      The money could and should be spend talking care of the meth labs and crack houses that are all over in lower Michigan instead of worring about pot.

      Crack heads kill people, pot heads kill doritos.

      • #3194872

        No JD

        by absolutely ·

        In reply to The only assertion that would be incorrect

        Seeds do not contain THC, thus are not included on the federal drug schedule. That’s why High Times magazine is full of ads to order seeds by mail.

        Crack heads kill people because the price of crack is inflated by illegal government prohibition.

        Pot heads don’t kill people because the DEA doesn’t usually waste its time on pot.

        If you don’t believe me, think about how many alcoholics are known to exist. They don’t kill for a fifth because the price is reasonable, not because they aren’t equally addicted. But when alcohol was banned, that caused violence just like the present bans.

        Ask an economist about “sin taxes” and supply/demand dynamics.

        • #3194829

          See my other post

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to No JD

          “only half right”, and I agreed about a lot of the same things about the violence and priceing.

          The problem is, alcoholics don’t kill to get the fifth, they just kill after they get the fifth.

          That is what many people are afraid of.

          Crack is already a fairly cheap high (or so I have heard, personally have no intention of trying a drug named after a part of my a$$) yet crackhead commit violence to get money to pay for the drugs because they can’t hold a job. Then there is the effect it has on society. Ever seen a crack baby? Not a pretty sight.

          There are many social issues that do validly get raised if you go with a no-hold-barred, no-judgemental way of life.

          I know I don’t want pilots and bus drivers being users even if drugs were legal.

          As for DEA, there IS a lot of enforcement here in Michigan. There are some smaller communities further on up north that are regularly having fairly major raids. They use planes to spot the crops that people plant in the wood or in the middle of a farmers corn crops or whatever. Pot is the MAIN drug they go after in mid-michigan. Crack and Meths are the main down by Detroit.

        • #3194757

          A conclusion?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to See my other post

          One point you raised, I don’t know how you really intended it;
          “I know I don’t want poilots and bus drivers being isers even if drugs were legal.”

          And I agree, these people have a job that places public lives directly into thier control. Alcohol has been legal for years, but pilots and bus drivers still have VERY strict regulations as to drinking before flying. They can still drink, but they cann’t drink and fly. Just as a truck driver is expected top be drg and alcohol free too or anyone else with similar responsibility. Do you like ot have a few beers on weekends or Friday nights? You don’t have a few beers at work though.

          It’s personal resposibility, just because it’s legal, it doesn’t mean you use it irresponsibly.

          And the same goes for marijuana or any other drug for that matter, I don’t know if there’s responsible coke or crack or herion use but there is responsible/recreational marijuana use because it does not have the same addictive nature ofmuch harder drugs.

          For people who have never done drugs, I suppose the best way to describe the difference between pot and harder drugs is to think of a ten year old having a small glass of beer with his dad. The kid may even get a little tipsy, but he’ll be fine. Now take that same kid and get him to chug a bottle of Jack, he’ll be completely out of control and without any personal faculties for some time.

        • #3182090

          My point

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to A conclusion?

          is that this would come up, esp with the Unions so strongly against drug testing all all. Heaven forbit that I know if the person putting the brakes on my new car is tweeked while he is working.

          The other thing that comes into play is like smoking ciggaretts and then be deprived from them for any lenght of time and see what the user is like. Ever seen the people at the end of a long flight? Imagine if that was the pilot?

          They say pot isn’t addictive and I believe it isn’t, physically. But mentally people can still get addicted.

          The other fear is, once you allow the first where do you stop? Many are addictive, and so how will that addict get through life. Would have to have more testing for anything were they would pose a risk to themselves or the people around them.

          We already have the same issues with booze, and now that we allow people to call alcoholism a “disease” makes it harder to hold people accountable for their actions.

          And no, I don’t drink during the work day. The same couldn’t be said for my last job though, hail the union shop. And I would see the pot heads toke down at every break, but even though the company KNEW it, they couldn’t do anything about it unless the person appeared “impaired”.

        • #3182032

          As for your brakes

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to My point

          Something like that can be done ripped on acid, depends on the person.

          I get your point though, it’s just that things lik ethat are second nature to most mechanics, I have been blind drunk and put a 4-speed transmission together without issues.

          But I know what you’re saying.

          As for people becoming MENTALLY addicted, again this reverts to my previous comments, these are people seekign ANY release formlife, thier problems are a lot deeper than the drug use they adopt to escape that reality though.

          Nobody I know is MENTALLY addicted to pot, they often think they might be, but can go on two week international vacations without it and have no problems, even though they would LIKE to smoke pot to be able to relax and really have some fun on thier vacations. It’s a preference, but not an addiction hat leads to irrational behaviour or violence and crime.

          As for the union comments, that’s up to the union to control in the workplace and deem what is acceptable for the nature of he work being performed not the government.

          I have worked in an office in the heart of Vancouver’s business district, Bentall center, and seen middle aged guys in 3-piece suits sharing a joint at lunch, I have seen a secretary smoke a few puffs before heading back after lunch. When I was younger, I had an employer give me money to go down the street and buy a couple of joints so I could relax after a stressful meeting. Some guys are better off when they’ve had a few puffs, not stoned out of thie rmoinds but just enough to shake it all off for a while and be a little more peaceful.

          I think it’s the responsibility of the person and the emplyer as to what is deemed acceptable and what isn’t, just like anything else. Som eplaces don’t min dpeopl e[laying games on PC’s to escape work for a while, some allow music to be played or personal email to be checked etc. But in other cases they do not. But it’s not something the government needs to control, as far as workplace useage and ethics are concerned.

        • #3182010

          My brakes

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to As for your brakes

          I have also seen people that have a hard time doing a quality job BEFORE they got stoned.

          Many do not just take the edge off, and I do not have faith in the human spirt for them to control themselves.

          The unions should decide if it is good for the union/company/consumer if the workers should be able to be under the influince or not? Fox watching the hen house here. The only thing the union cares about is keeping the dues coming in and keeping their way of life safe. Ie make as much money as possible while doing as little work as possible. Gee, wonder why North American cars often don’t rate as high as many EU cars do for safety/quality/dependablity?

          And yes, lots of drugs on the assembly lines, not just pot. Where do you think most lemon cars come from?

        • #3195376

          drugs in the industry

          by house ·

          In reply to As for your brakes

          I know more smokers than non-smokers when it comes to the industry. I know a whole crew that work on the rails stoned out of their tree. They are the most efficient welders this side of Ontario, and they are snatched up to do jobs all over the province. You catch them on a dry spell, and they’ll only do half a days work.

          On a funnier note, the first time that I got high when I was a kid, I was helping my uncle put up insulation in the attic during a heat wave. I remember the little fibres sticking my tongue while I tried desperately to hold it up with my face. To this day, I hate doing insulation. And when I see those stupid pink flamingo bags in the hardware store, I get all itchy and pasty.

          To boot, he lends me his bike with the warped front wheel in order to get home, about 2 clicks away through downtown. Damn flamingo.

      • #3194769

        Great realization

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to The only assertion that would be incorrect

        At least you can see the diference between hard and soft drugs.

        I also think nobody has actuallt taken time to think about how one leads to another.

        People use SOFT drugs for many reasons, many similar to smoking a cigarrette.
        1) peer pressure
        2) escape from teh pressures of reality
        3) party fun,
        4)enjoying a light hearted escape from the stress of a day
        And a few others but only one of the issues above really leads to harder drugs and it isn’t because of the drug. It’s because of people not being able to deal wit thier lives. Whether it’s poverty, parental issues,relationship issues,workissuesetc.

        Just as every person who dinks a few beers doesn’t end up being a chronic alcoholic living on Rye.

        People lok for ways to escape problems, they seek heavier drugs because it takes more to find that release or escape from reality.

        But MOST people smoke pot to chill out a bit after a long day, to have a laugh with friends at a movie, to get into party modeat a concert, to simply let thier hair down and relax a bit. But it’s back to work in the morning as they have a wife and kids to support still. These people aren’t truning from pot to crack, they have no need or desire to get that screwed up, they don’t need to escape life, they are just using for recreational enjoyment.

        There is a difference and one leads to the other when it is someone needing help to begin with, not help quitting drugs as much as help dealing with issues they are unable to without escaping the world.

        People need help, yet people are unable to find it and are left seeking ways to simply forget they are alive.

        Not a single case has ever been reported of someone dieing from pot smoking, nobody walks down the street robbing people, nobody goes out looking for ways to get that next joint so they can’t stop the withdrawl symptoms, nobody gets hurt, nobody dies, nobody gets shot, nobody gets ‘jacked’.

        The worst case scenario of a chronic pot head is that they will fall asleep from smoking too much, not pass out, just fall asleep.

        And the only way one leads to the other is if the person has OTHER reasons to seek escape, I’ve never seen s toner decide to get into herione because it sounds like a good high, heroine is KNOWN to be the worst high of all, why would people seek it unless they simply wanted to get so obliterated they can forget life altogether.

        I never liked drugs that I did not have my faculties about me, even LSD could be controlled ( I wrote and passed tests in HS while on LSD) it’s personal mindset, LSD seems to enhance whatever mood you are in before you take it, if you are an agressive and angered person, you will have violent high, if you are a passive and peaceful person, you will have a pleasant and happy high.

        But none of this is because of smoking pot, it just doesn’t work that way, the pot heads and crack heads are two different breeds of people entirely.

        • #3182086

          Some typo’s are just too funny

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Great realization

          “who dinks a few beers”.

          While I am not telling you to change your typing, that one still made me laugh!

          The whole pot issue also remindes me of the porn issue and an old comic I saw once about the myth vs reality of porn.

          myth, had an angry man masterbating to a magazine thinking “I need to go rape someone!”

          Reality had a picture of a man passed out with mags around him and spent love all over himself.

          Porn, like pot, just makes you sleepy. :^O

        • #3182013

          That’s really good!

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Some typo’s are just too funny

          I didn’t se the typos either but yes it is quite funny!

          Min dyou many beer drinkers become dinks I guess, so dinking a beer may ‘fit’ for some.

          The porn comments, too true and too funny to be considered. 😀

          But you’re right, people used to say to me, “WOW, did I ever get high, I’m TOO high, how do I come down.”

          “uh, here, have a bag of Cheetos and a pillow, see you in the morning.” LOL. that’s about it.

          In my teens, I don’t ever remember getting stoned and wanting to commit a crime. I did get pissed and roll a gas station attendant though, while wielding a firmly clenched fist and making my best ugly face, just for the free smokes of course, and they were probably less than $2 at the time too!

          Pot and crime, aside from possessing it to begin with, are not related directly. Indirect effects are due to people who need drugs to escape problems, whether legal or not, these poeople will seek these vices to escape a reality they can’t face. This done NOT speak for the average or even the majority of pot smokers though.

          In Vancouver, they have clean needle exchange and injection sites, where addicts can have a safe, clean place to do thier drugs. Seems absurd really, but it does work. At first people were staying home and not using these outlets, thinking somethin gelse is going to happen if they do, but sinc ethen, they have found it to be an excellent way of at least working WITH the problem instead of trying to pretend it doesn’t exist or that stopping pot smokers will help in any small way.

          The results have been positive,

          Aids and HIV is reduced because of regulated and clean tools and preparation.

          The disposal of needles in public parks wher echildren play and animals run, is reduced.

          The number of people reaching out for help has increased as they learn to trust the peopl ethey are dealing with. These people DO promote other avenues and ways to get help whilst ensuring the safety and cleanliness of injected drug use are controlled.

          There’s always mreo than one way to solve a problem, now I am not by ANY means suggesting that these needle banks and safe injection sites are stopping drug use, but they are helpin greduce the effects as well as helping SOME to find a way out.

          I KNOW a person, VERY educated, several college degrees who ended up living on skid row and using heroine after a divorce where he lost his family and livlihood as an accountant. HE managed to get help, HE managed to move away, HE managed to stop (though getting Methodone from his doctor and having a legal marijuana use exception) HE managed to get a hom eaway from the crime and drug epicenter, HE managed to stay alive, when he was nearly dead.

          Yes he is HIV positive and also has Hep C, but he has sought treatment, he has found friends, even wit hwith former family that had disowned him, he has found there is another way. He only managed BECAUSE there is help readily available andbecause his problem is addressed and understood, instead of just locking him up where without ANY question whatsoever, he’d be dead now.

        • #3181982

          Difference between pot and beer

          by beads ·

          In reply to Great realization

          Size. You can carry a pack of 20 smokes in your pocket and hardly be noticed while beer… ummm. Just wouldn’t work that way.

          Now, your wondering what the point is, right? Well, you can take a few joints anywhere. Whereas it a bit more obvious to take the 20 beers anywhere you go. You just have to be able to enforce the social mores before you start setting up resturants with: Smoking, Non-smoking and pot? But I’d love to hear that sometime.

          Obviously, theres a bit more to it in the workplace setting and thats what I was eluding to with the social mores thought. Even if it was suddenly legalized it would be difficult to enforce without strong social support. But hey we can’t seem to use blinkers here in the US let alone tell someone they couldn’t smoke legal pot.

          – beads

    • #3182011

      Not Again

      by maxwell edison ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      New title same issue.

      • #3195438

        That;s right Maxwell

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Not Again

        Marc Emery was busted last month too and the month before that. I just didn’t realize that someone as clever as you would notice.

        I remember this being a major issue I have complained of a lot, it seems every month I feel a need to talk about Marc Emery being arrested due to US interference.

        Now did you have something worthehile or relevant to say, or are you just trying to be clever and thorw a comment back at me when it doesn’t apply. Unlike my making the same comment when yoru broken record started bitching about money being given to those whoe didn’t earn it.

        Grow up and at least try and make sense next time, man you’ve been looking dumber every day lately.

        When you are trying to say touche, you need to be referring to a similar issue you know. Aren’t you a CLEVER little boy!

        • #3195333

          At least you see

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to That;s right Maxwell

          what my comment in the liberty post meant. Just seeing each of you posting that same post out of context looks very mature. ;\

      • #3195111

        OOOOOOOOH, Maxwell!

        by absolutely ·

        In reply to Not Again

        What about the free market?

        What about the failure of the War on Drugs as a failure of the command economy strategy of a “sin tax”? Why, in this case, is it OK for the government to decide what’s fun and what isn’t? Who does not get to decide how to pursue their own happiness, in MaxLand?

        • #3195104

          Drugs in MaxLand

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to OOOOOOOOH, Maxwell!

          .
          You have the right to smoke yourself silly, regardless of the weed, plant, or whatever vice of choice. And may the flake of the cocoa plants fly up your nose, if you so desire. You have the right to remain wasted, but not to have anyone else support you while you enjoy your delirious state. You have the right to waste your life away, but not to waste the fruits of someone else’s labor as a means of support.

          Who said that I supported the war on drugs? I certainly didn’t. I actually believe it’s stupid. And I support the legalization of such recreational drugs. And I would support an across-the-board pardon for all people in prison for violating minor posession and drug use laws. Shall I go on?

          I also think that some acts of civil disobedience are also stupid — as illustrated by this dumb-ass Canadian, Oz Media’s modern day folk hero. Believing in something is one thing. Shooting yourself in the foot to make a point is something entirely different.

        • #3196227

          Drugs don’t kill people

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Drugs in MaxLand

          …nearly as badly as wars on drugs kill people.

          I condone any non-violent protest against the retarded DEA.

    • #3181990

      Now all I’ve got

      by dr dij ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      is:
      “That 70’s show!”

    • #3181946

      Wow.

      by itgirli ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      I feel that the US had no right. And I’m really sick of them putting such a big deal on it here in the US. I think the US has bigger issues to deal with other than the partaking/distribution of an herbal plant that has less damaging effects that alcohol. The only thing that makes me want to move to Canada. Luckily there are thousands of things about Canada that are keeping me from making that move. I can’t believe they “ordered” Canadian officals to hand him over. Canada should have told the grand US of A to go screw themselves. Seattle has never set well with me anyhow.

      • #3181910

        Some observations

        by maxwell edison ·

        In reply to Wow.

        .
        1. The U.S. did not “order” any such thing. And to suggest as much is taking an ounce of truth and whipping up a ton of lies, something Oz Media does quite well — and quite often. (Or he’s just stupid and repeats the lies when others spew them, just like a parrot.) For example, under the current extradition treaty between the USA and Canada, such a thing can only be requested, but never ordered. And it’s something a Canadian court could prevent. Moreover, if the person in question is not breaking an identical Canadian law, then no extradition could possibly take place. If growing and selling marijuana, and/or seeds, and/or anything else marijuana related, and/or money laundering wasn’t ALSO illegal in Canada, then they couldn’t extradite the guy to the USA. A person might say, yea but the Canadians turn a blind-eye to such things even though it’s illegal. But that would only suggest that they, too, have laws we might deem unfair, and/or they have similar problems up there as we do down here, and that is some laws are not applied equally, and/or legitimately, and/or in accordance with the wishes of the governed. In other words, they should get their own legal house in order before they criticize our legal house for having the same amount or same kind of disorder.

        2. If they (Canadians) claim, on one hand, that the USA has somehow pressured Canadian authorities into capitulation concerning a small and insignificant pot smoker, but on the other hand they (Canadians) claim to stand on their principled ground — and stand up to the USA — when it comes to something major, such as the global war on terrorism, something just doesn’t jibe. Are the Canadian authorities strong-willed and principled individualists, regardless of the pressure applied by the USA, or are they a bunch of spineless jelly-fish who get weak-kneed when the USA says jump? These USA bashing Canadians want it both ways. Were they lying then, or are they lying now?

        3. Don’t believe what you read in these threads, especially if it’s being posted by an obvious and admitted America hater. It’s the epitome of bias. And don’t necessarily believe me, either. Before you jump to any conclusions, do some simple research on both the extradition agreement between Canada and the USA, and see how it’s been applied — and it works both ways, I might add. And then read some unbiased news stories about the account.

        4. If you think that the drug laws in the USA are unfair (and I might add that I would agree with that notion), then I would ask you this. Have you lobbied your representatives to repeal the laws that you (and I) deem stupid and/or are an infringement on a person’s personal liberty? If we have laws that are an infringement on a person’s individual liberty, it’s only because we, collectively, have allowed it to happen. I call on you to stop complaining about it……….no, check that. I call on you to not only continue to complain about it, but vow to do whatever is necessary to put a stop to it — and do what you can to restore the notion of individual liberty in the USA.

        • #3195436

          You little fuc*ing liar you!

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Some observations

          There’s just no end to the third party lies you are intent on bleating today is there.

          As for your example of how I spin the truth, in reference to his arrest being ordered, my first line of the fist post here states; “US police in Seattle asked Vancouver police to arrest political party leader and marijuana activist Marc Emery for extradition to the USA.”

          So your implication that I have suggested his arrest was ordered is a bonified 100% lie. As seen here: “(Or he’s just stupid and repeats the lies when others spew them, just like a parrot.) For example, under the current extradition treaty between the USA and Canada, such a thing can only be requested, but never ordered.”

          For example? That’s not an example, that’s a lie, I said they “…asked Vancouver police to arrest…”

          TECHNICALLY they asked the RCMP to act on the issue, not VPD though.

          Talking of spineless jellyfish, you can’t even stand up for yourself without relying on your little third party asides to make a point.

          Got a problem, tell ME about it you wuss! What a jouvenile little turd you are! A pure baby who gets all whiny when he doesn’t get his way, gets proven wrong and caught telling lies, then gets all poopy pants about it. I have never seen such a display of infantile bahaviour from someone claiming to be an adult before.

          First of all, please PROVE YOUR LIE, that I hate America, and provide links to where I have said so. You’re good with links that suit your cause, I am sure oyu can take something out of context that will work. Remember, you claim that I say I hate AMERICA, not just childish cowards such as yourself.

          As for what I posted, I posted several links to US and Canadian news sources of information on the subject, should I have looked for Bush’s comments so they are valid enough for you to believe, sheep boy?

          Baaaaaa, I only believe what Bush says, nobody else else is worth the consideration, Baaaaaaaaaaaaa. You sorry litle misguided boy.

          The US had requested Emery’s arrest and, as several of us have explained now, it was decided by a Canadian court in Ottawa that an arrest warrant should be put out on behalf of the US.

          At least read the posts before you lie, it will help you retain integrity, if you can find any left, perhaps borrow some from a democrat or something.

          I just can’t believe how small you’ve become, your rants are unjustified, out of place, incorrect and in a third party manner seen in preshool kids.

          Did they wait to teach you that in high school, or was it post secondary edcation in your case?

          Now run along before your mom sees you using her computer or the shepherd wonders why his little sheep is not with the rest of them.

          you obviously haven’t read the thread nor anything else regarding this issue, you have simply lied endlessly and hoped that your wish came true. Core values and mature, ethical behaviour from someone who CLAIMS he’s of superior inteligence, my a55.

          WHat tiny shred of integrity you clung to for dear life in the past is simply a lost hope now. You show no consistecy, other than the ability to repeat yourself and make baseless assertions and ‘untruths’.

          What is it you like to call people…Disingenious?

          Whatever Maxwell, you don’t really need flaming I guess, you’ve sunk your ship all by yourself.

        • #3195334

          You Prove my point – you deceive

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to You little fuc*ing liar you!

          .
          Itgirli said, “I can’t believe they ‘ordered’ Canadian officials to hand him over”.

          I replied to her (not you) saying, “The U.S. did not ‘order’ any such thing. And to suggest as much is taking an ounce of truth and whipping up a ton of lies…..”

          Therefore, she had the impression that it was ordered; and she apparently got that impression by reading your account of the story. Thus, my comment, “…..something Oz Media does quite well — and quite often”.

          So you proved my point. Either your message “suggested” such a thing, or else Itgirli would not have had that impression, or else you’re flaming the wrong person. Perhaps you should give HER a piece of your mind for misquoting you.

          Now go smoke another doobie.

        • #3195323

          Dudes!

          by itgirli ·

          In reply to You Prove my point – you deceive

          I put “ordered” in quotes not because it was true, but because of the way they do business in Seattle. It was a joke. Like “the man” keeping them “down”. Reading too much into quotes is deluding both your brains. Have a toke on me.

        • #3195320

          Somebody else is already one toke over the line

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Dudes!

          .
          …and it ain’t me.

          But I’ll pass, thanks just the same.

          (Title credits to Mike Brewer and Tom Shipley)

        • #3195324

          And Look here – You DID SAY IT!

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to You little fuc*ing liar you!

          .
          Looking at your original message, you said, “I think the BIGGEST issue of all, is that he was ORDERED arrested after DEA agents had investigated his business. The thought of US police ordering the arrest a Canadian (icon) IN Canada was really just too much of the ‘US in Canada’s businesss’ for most to stomache.”

          YOU SAID IT, and then you claimed you didn’t say it.

          Scrambled brains, indeed. You’ve really been smoking too much pot.

          Note: As of 08/02/05, that original message, the one starting the discussion, was last edited on 07/30/05. Now don’t go edit that part out.

        • #3195247

          Well done

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to And Look here – You DID SAY IT!

          obviously havign read the first post there is a clear indication that I understand what the process was.

          Technically they did ‘order’ him arrested, but it is up to Canada’s own court to decide whether to execute that order I suppose.

          But even though you decided to pin point wordking in one comment, it doesn’t make your comment accurate. Many people have used the term order and THAT is your defense about pepoe’s complaints.

          It’s like when people talk about Bush and say he said XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX whatever, you will instantly say he didn’t and ask fo rthat specific quote, not realizing that it still doesn’t change his reaction.actions but just the words he used.

          You aren’t defending or describing events, just digging into the wording used as if that excuses the event itself.

        • #3195314

          Yep, he sure did say ORDERED!

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to You little fuc*ing liar you!

          .
          The story that Oz linked to said:

          “Vancouver Constable Howard Chow said Canadian law enforcement was approached by the DEA to aid in the investigation……..The DEA came to us about a year ago surrounding Marc Emery and asked for our assistance in the criminal investigation that had to do with trafficking a controlled substance, Chow told CTV.ca News. It’s an ongoing investigation. There may be further charges that come out of this…..”.

          Oz Media spin and interpretation, in his own words:

          “I think the BIGGEST issue of all, is that he was ORDERED arrested after DEA agents had investigated his business. The thought of US police ordering the arrest a Canadian (icon) IN Canada was really just too much of the ‘US in Canada’s businesss’ for most to stomache.”

          What a scramble-brain.

          Yep, he sure did say ORDERED!

        • #3195238

          Those are two different actions all together,

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Yep, he sure did say ORDERED!

          I am referring to the raids, when the US court ORDERED his arrest, this then means tat Canada must take ti to court, as I explained they did, and then have the RCMP make arrests.

          YOU are now pointing to a PORTION of one (out of three) articles provided that has nothing to do with ihs arrest at all. THat is referring to the RCMP’s cooperation wit hthe DEA who were conducting the investigation that lead to his final arrest. My comment was regarding his arrest order that came after the events.

          And who the hell are you talking to now? Can you not speak directly to people, or is that just too scary for you.

          I didn’t say, Max said ….., then MAx went and…..then Max always……I speak to YOU for som ereason, and yet you still don’t understand a point or a word anyone says, it’s such a miniature little mindset you show here. Perhaps like your core values, just some BS so that you don’t have to think.

        • #3195311

          But you did change the tone near the bottom of your post

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You little fuc*ing liar you!

          But you did change the tone near the bottom of your post.

          “I think the BIGGEST issue of all, is that he was ORDERED arrested after DEA agents had investigated his business. The thought of US police ordering the arrest a Canadian (icon) IN Canada was really just too much of the ‘US in Canada’s businesss’ for most to stomache.”

          You changed the whole tone of your post just like Max claimed in that the US ORDERED the Canadian government to do this.

          Why was your post not “clueless in Canada” because of the Canadian government going along with this? But they are without fault as I see from your posts. And the 11 times they DID try to arrest him that you talked of? More clueless in Canada?

          But yes, everyone in the US knows that they are nuts in Seatle and Califoria.

        • #3195308

          Yep.

          by itgirli ·

          In reply to But you did change the tone near the bottom of your post

          Two places I never want to go to:
          Seattle and California.
          Crazy morons bent on their own enforcing their own insane ideas on the rest of civilized society. I would love it if LA did sink into the ocean and all the California coastline with it. Freaks.

        • #3051710

          That’s mean

          by dr dij ·

          In reply to Yep.

          We’re just grooving here. ALl we want is to be left alone so we can surf, rollerskate, hike up the earthquake faults, bike on wilderness trails & be eaten by mountain lions – definitely too cute to kill. Bad kitty! Noo!!!! Aaahhh!

          And maybe grow a bit of … (to feed the seeds to our parrots, I’m sure). Sounds like you need some.

          And with global warming, we will probably sink into the ocean. But Florida’s first! They’re lower. And hey, I didn’t vote for the Pot-hole-inator governor, who digs potholes in roads so he can fix them in front of a TV camera.

          Yet strangely he makes sense. Govt should NOT be spending MORE than it takes in. There are no market limits on teachers salaries as there would be if schools were private. Everyone is trying to grab more and more gubmint money. (I guess they are everywhere).

        • #3195293

          A pound of Lye – Five dollars. . . . . . .

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to But you did change the tone near the bottom of your post

          .
          Oz Media caught spewing a pound of Lies – Priceless.

        • #3195219

          A pound if lies

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to A pound of Lye – Five dollars. . . . . . .

          I used a single descriptive word that actually does apply in more then one way if you really want to dig. Unlike yourself who is shown time and time again to spew pure lies and then you just go flame me in third party (the lowest form of cowardice) fashion like some child who was pushed over at the playground..

        • #3195224

          Who cares? That’s irrelevant.

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to But you did change the tone near the bottom of your post

          What happens to him in Canada is fair game, it has nothing to do with this whatsoever.

          NO I don’t think the Canadian government is without fault at all, I have never said as much in all the time I’ve been here.

          I have never supported Canada’s political decisions, perhaps onceor twice, but I don’t think our government is good and yours is bad. The difference is, I can admit, accept and understand that we have a joke for a government, unilke people who simply refuse to acept any flaw or issue with eth US government, no matter how blatant.

          As for ordered you’re right the ‘tone’ does change, and that ‘tone’ (aren’t we reading here, or do we now hear tone in messages?) should have helped understand what was behind the comment. Canadians didn’t order his arrest, they would have completely ignored the issue. It was upon America’s ‘request’, ‘recommendation’, ‘overbearing suggestion’, or yes, order that Canada then dragged it through court and issued his arrest.

          I am also not the only person who has said that here, so I guess OTHER people do see it as being ordered by the USA.

          BUT, the terms used there are so irrelevant it REALLY doesn’t matter. Max just likes to make something out of nothing when he is forced to try and think. (My turn for some third party flaming).

          And toiterate how irrelevant Max’s comments are, I don’t think EVERYONE in the US knows that they are nuts in Seattle and California”. I have actually found some of the nicest Am”ericans I’ve met in the Seattle area.

          But you said EVERYONE knows, and that’s just a lie, proving how you spin the truth.

          Pretty stupid reply that doesn’t address your issue at all, I guess that’s my point regarding Max’s comments.

        • #3195191

          How irrelevant?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Who cares? That’s irrelevant.

          It was your insistance that you NEVER claimed they ordered at the beginning of this thread that was in contention.
          [i]
          “As for your example of how I spin the truth, in reference to his arrest being ordered, my first line of the fist post here states; “US police in Seattle asked Vancouver police to arrest political party leader and marijuana activist Marc Emery for extradition to the USA.”

          So your implication that I have suggested his arrest was ordered is a bonified 100% lie. As seen here: “(Or he’s just stupid and repeats the lies when others spew them, just like a parrot.) For example, under the current extradition treaty between the USA and Canada, such a thing can only be requested, but never ordered.”

          For example? That’s not an example, that’s a lie, I said they “…asked Vancouver police to arrest…”[/i]

          Nothing out of context, nothing misrepresented. Just you pointing out part of your original post/flame while denying the last part.

          I don’t recall you starting an anti-canadian government discussion, but I do recall you starting many about the american government. Why is this? Matter of fact, not any anti-british government discussions either.

          This all from the unbiased “I never said I hate America”, but just acts like it. You need to step back and look at how you post. You may not intend it to come across like that, but that is EXACTLY how you often sound.

          Maybe even admitting you misspoke when it is clear you did would add to crediblity instead of saying it doesn’t matter?

          The fact that you “accept and understand” about your government being a joke and other not having that same enlighenment means to only BASH America?

          Like in many other discussions, it is a good thing that it does not take your agreance with what I say or think that makes them valid or not.

        • #3196191

          My political views

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to How irrelevant?

          Have been made more than clear here on more occasions than I can possibly begin to remember.

          My stand is that I do not have Canada’s government in my face, if I did ,I would complain.

          I do not have Britain’s government in my face, if I did, I would complain and in that case even vote against it (I can vote in England not here though).

          I have also never suggested Canada or Britains government is not a corrupt institution with nothing but thier own best interests in mind. Though Canada’s government does actually bow to the people when they make noise and they consider indivuduals protests publicly, (they don’t usher them away as we saw with people wearing political t-shirts at the wrong conference).

          In this case, I have mentioned how Ottowa has bent over for the US, but they alwasys do that and I wouldn’t stand behind them when I find them wrong. Unlike US ‘Patriots’ who would never second guess or question a political move if they supported the party as a whole, or even th eperson as an individual. It’s not ALL shite, som eif it’s good, and we see some good from ALL parties, we just need to be more critical of our governments overstepping thie rboundaries. Which in your case seems to be anywhere they choose to be involved.

          In contrast, YOUR government has always been relatively cool and has stayed out of my face/business, for the most part, exceptions like 9/11 etc I can accept of course as I also did Canada’s participation (which is currently getting pretty nast yas violence is on the rise).

          Ever since GWB has been in office, your government made it’s issues EVERYONE else’s issues. My country was flamed, my country of origin was flamed your government has been nothing but hostile and inconsiderate of the rest of your allies.

          The reason it BOTHERS me though, is because all I see day and night on TV, in the papers etc., is American politics that I strongly oppose.

          I do not support GWB’s policies, his policies are in my face daily.

          Canadian politics is pretty quiet and internal for th emost part, it’s just another bunch of suits in an office, as is England’s. I have to go out of my way to keep abreast on British politics, you have to search to even find much going on in Canadian politics, but US politics is everywhere. At least 40% of my $100/mo of TV is US BS.

          It’s in my face so I am in yours, if you wish to debate these issues of course.

        • #3196168

          Just don’t see you as objective nor unbiased

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to How irrelevant?

          In a great deal of your posts you will pull out a GWB snyde remark that has nothing to do with the case.

          I hear about how Candians don’t follow politics, yet you follow US politics. You know what I do? Turn the channel when something comes on that I don’t want to watch.

          I hear all the time about US company did this or that. Much of the timber is controlled by the Japanise and the EU.

          Not all ships that dump are US, but that is the only country you complain about doing it.

          You complain because I would ask why your coast guard isn’t guarding your coasts, enforcing your laws. That is what government is for. Cops, military, coast guard. That is what they do and that is their purpose.

          Something happened that has you out on a limb, and it puts more into your posts than I think you realize. There is much more to the over-generalizing of anti-republican is anti-american.

          I try to stay calm, and rational in my replys to you and USUALLY I think I do. Sometimes I hit the submit instead of the close window, but I don’t think it is that much at this point in my life.

          I don’t agree with everything you say. I don’t have to. This doesn’t make me right or wrong anymore than it does you. I do think you have been more emotional than logical lately, but what do I know?

          No matter how wrong you are, I have no bad feelings towards you. I just don’t understand all the hate sometimes. (unless it is aimed at my soon-to-be-EX-wife)

          Have you started taking your laptop to the pub again? ;\

        • #3196152

          I have mentioned other companies

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to How irrelevant?

          I have mentioned that this is not JUST a US issue, I have explained that it is found in Vancouver habour all the time frominternational cruise ships.

          But the cruise ship companies aren’t proposing opening a new terminal in ANWR that would increase the vast volume of ships and spills.

          My focus is on US ships because the US is looking to expand that industry, one which the coast guard cannot currently keep on top of, or any other coast guard around the world for that matter, this happens everywhere, but THEY aren’t trying to increase that volume, the US oil industry is.

          The oil industry has Bush in thie rpocket and he is responsible for American actions, he chose the career, if it was Joe Blow, I’d have it out on him. It’s not the person in THIS CASE, as much as it is the power that allows it to continue and those who lobby for it.

          As for changing the channel, I’ve heard that one before and actually listed a list of channels. Out of about 60, almost everyone was a US network or affiliate network. WIth about 4 Canadian channels and some multicultural stuff tossed on top. It is mostly US crap though, don’t get me wrong, I love to kick back and giggle to a stupid sit com once ina while. Although it’s mostly crap, it is entertainment when wanted and you have to get all teh BS networks in order to get the few channels I do want un a tiered system(Discovery, A&E etc.)

          Yes I know you have an opinion and you are entitled to it, I certainly wouldn’t expect you to CHANGE your opinion becauseI think otherwise, but often people need to see more than one side and possibly find information they did not know whenforming thie rinitila opinion

          My main point here is that teh Bunker oil is SUPPOSED to be dumped t aauthorized stations, this is a law around teh globe. IN MANY cases, people are NOT obeying th elaws and it is happening so that the coast guard cannot stop it as it is, increasing that volume will only increase the problem, and the problem is HERE, RIGHT HERE.

          Yuo have hundred of thousands of police in America, why haven’t they stopped the drug trade yet? WHy aren’t they doing thier job?

          Because they simply can’t be everywhere at the same time, but they still stop a great deal of crime. The US won’t decriminalize weed because it fears an increase in uncontrolable crimes or something, it’s the same thing here. We already have waste and simply can’t keep up, we don’t need more.

        • #3195426

          a small and insignificant pot smoker??

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Some observations

          Man, you should really read up on this.

          He is the BC Marijuana Party leader, has run for Mayor of Vancouver twice, is known from cost to coast by millions and is the largest advocate for legalization of marijuana, one of the key voices in having it decriminalized, though not his suggested resolution more than the governments attempt to make it appear that they are understanding the issue.

          But this LIE is just pathetic, everyone here knows exactly what I hate is American politics, which we have established earlier here, is seen as; anti-democrat is being clever and astute
          anti-Republican means anti-American or a terrorist. You clueless moron, you still can’t comprehend the simplest issues can you? Your comments, as always, suit only what you wish to believe and not what people have actually said. Yet you have the audacity, and ignorance to claim that others are spinning the turth??

          “And then read some unbiased news stories about the account.”

          So what’s considered unbiased news, Maxwell? This outta be good.

          “Have you lobbied your representatives to repeal the laws that you (and I) deem stupid and/or are an infringement on a person’s personal liberty?”

          Who’s Marc Emery, Max? That insignificant little pot smoker you were referring to? the voice of the people, the one who represents those who support him in the thousands wherever he goes. I know you are referring to Americans standing up and saying something, but Marc Emery is the result of the following and suport for the voice he has in Canada. He was going to bat for the people a long time before he ever opened the Hemp Store or the seed bank.

          In the US, someone such as that would nevr have a voice anyway, your government and local law enforcement would see to it that his freedom of speech and ability to raise awareness on these issues is quickly muted, as always with the ‘undersireables’ that don’t follow the rest of the flock.

        • #3195326

          Gee, I insulted your hero, Marc Emery, by calling him. . . .

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to a small and insignificant pot smoker??

          .
          …..a small and insignificant pot smoker.

          He ran for Mayor? BFD. Where did he finish, fifth? Anybody can get their name on a ballot, even an insignificant pot smoker like Marc Emery.

          And if he is, as you suggest, “the voice of the people, the one who represents those who support him in the thousands wherever he goes…..”

          Well, okay, whatever you say, dude. If he’s “the voice of the people”, I guess we know what you consider important. And you said it, not me.

          Now go smoke another doobie. But then again, perhaps we now know why your messages are so scrambled — because you’ve smoked too many doobies…….brain cells…….scrambled…….this is your brain……..this is your brain on drugs……..

          And remember, don’t bogart that joint, dude.

        • #3195209

          Well you should know

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Gee, I insulted your hero, Marc Emery, by calling him. . . .

          As you collect my comments, that I don’t really smoke anymore, a puff or two with people on occasion but not as a rule. You missed the entire point, sorry, you IGNORED as always, the entire point behind the comment itself as you simply cannot provide a reasonable answer, as someone else had predicted above before you posted here.

          When in a corner Republicans seem to cower and think they are hiding. “Maybe it’ll just go away”

          How about addressing the object of people’s comments here. Instead you start running off on me being a stoner? How stupid.

          Marc Emery runs for mayor and that’s no big deal, how many times has your name been on the ballot?

          And you comments completely diregards the fact that it IS relevant that he ran for mayor, we are discussing someone’s community profile and community voice here, so just RUNNING makes you a well known voice and advocate for the people. My comment supported my point very well, yours had no point at all.

          I am not insulted, I didn’t claim Marc Emery spoke for me or that (as you claim about Bush) I believe everything he says before I’ll believe anything else.

          I don’t praise Marc Emery, I just noted that your comments proved you have absolutely no idea at all what you are talking about. There isn’t one ounce of valididty or common sense shownin your argument and you are just typing for the reson of flaming someone. You are SO transparent and simple minded sometimes.

        • #3195180

          You said that you didn’t praise Marc Emery.

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Well you should know

          .
          Yea right. You only said:

          “he is a (political) party leader”

          and

          “he has run for Mayor”

          and

          “he is known from cost to coast by millions”

          and

          “he is the voice of the people”

          and

          “the one who represents those who support him in the thousands wherever he goes”

          and

          “He was going to bat for the people”

          and

          “Marc Emery is the result of the following and support for the voice he has in Canada”

          …..and you suggest you weren’t singing his praises? Ooooookay, whatever you say, dude.

          What was that you were saying about having taken LSD? It does cause permanent damage, you know.

          In fact, “The immediate effects of LSD are sometimes followed by long-lasting or even permanent changes in a user’s psychology, point of view, and personality…..An LSD trip can have long lasting or even permanent negative psychoemotional effects…..There are some cases of LSD inducing or triggering a psychosis in people that were apparently healthy prior to taking LSD……In (some) cases, the psychosis may be chronic…”

          Now we know.

        • #3196182

          You really have to work on your comprehension.

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to You said that you didn’t praise Marc Emery.

          You said he was a “small and insignificant pot smoker.”

          I merely took that opportunity to prove some of the impact he has had on a specific (large) society that supports him. How he is known across the country etc. This validates his arrest as being one of example and one that is noticed throught the country.

          [b]Therefore he is not a “small and insignificatn pot smoker” as you so claim, because he isn’t in your face everyday as you would expect a strong voice to be.

          If I had hailed him as a hero, I think I would have probably offered him more merits to begin with.

          I know you are just trying SO hard to push that comment back at me, because you have proven that you idolize the BUsh Administration and the Grand Pooh Bah to boot, all hail the great Bush and all that. I haven’t sung such praises for Emery at all, I have voiced an oposition to the US investigating a crime in Canada and then calling for his arrest and extradition over something like selling POT seeds!

          Don’t you have a war in Iraq to deal with or something?

          And don’t tell me that you can be multiple places at once, because that is making the whole US focus appear very thin, they can’t be everywhere and focused accordingly on every problem simultaneously.

          Anyhow, I couldn’t give a crap about what you think today, really.

          I just signed a killer deal and I’m moving again to seek bigger and better things, not too happy about that part but it’s worth it.

    • #3195225

      Canada’s Sovreignity

      by dmambo ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      Hey, Oz,
      you write “As a result of the arrests, people in Vancouver lined the sreet outside the seed bank and protest US police presence in Canada, though not a physical presence, they had ordered the arrest and this has infuriated many locals, who are already adamantly against US political actions.”

      Maybe I missed it in the thread, but why did the Candaian/local authorities submit to this request? Unless it was an action upholding a treaty, did the government “bend over forward” and just take it? Were they using it for political cover so they would not be seen in a bad light for arresting this guy on their own after a long time of ignoring his behavior?

      It seems to me that if they wanted, the Canadian gov’t or local police could have told whatever US agency was involved to get bent.

      I’m sure there is a significant portion of the Canadian population (my mom-in-law for one) who are glad the arrest was made because of their personal feeling about drug use.

      You also state “The guy that sells the guns may be breaking a law in some countries, but he is not a murderer unless he uses them to kill someone.” How can you compare guns to something dangerous like pot??? 😉

      • #3195193

        The US DEA

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Canada’s Sovreignity

        Has beenconducting UNDERCOVER INVESTIGATIONS in Vancouver?! How would people feel if the RCMP were on anundercover stakeout in West Virgina or something? Americans would flip inside out screaming injustice.

        There’s NO WAY IN HELL a Canadian investigation being ocnducted IN the US would be tolerated by Americans if people KNEW about it, they would be screaming blue murder outside the WhiteHouse about it.

        Turn the tables and it’s, “Gee, so what? We are the world police and his seeds are being used by our criminal citizens to commit crime here!”

        It’s just so incredibly two-faced there’s no way Americans would stand for this in their country.

        People like Max are just standing up because they will defend any action America does and refuse to accept the obvious fault in thier ways.

        Bush could be having people gassed and Max would say ‘but they are democrats, they get what they deserve. In 1534 China….’. He would rather see America walk all over the world than see them focus on thier own problems, it’s so much easier to look at the other guy.

        But to conduct an undercover operation, and ‘request’ place an order to Canada to have him arrested, for selling SEEDS is just too much. I will completely accept cooperation of our intelligence gathering systems and law enforcement to see that serial killers, rapists etc are not allowed to walk free by crossinga border. But to investigate another country’s citizen, IN THAT COUNTRY, and then have that country place him under arrest because YOUR laws are stiffer is just wrong. It’s overstepping a fair boundary and should never see a coutroom.

        YES I am blaming Canada’s courts system for actually seeing his arrest as being remotely sensible. But I’ve never claimed Canada’s system was even close to reasonable, it goes without saying that I didn’t like thier action, but nobody can accept that the US is wrong in so many of these similar issues, people actually think the American government smells nice or somerhing?!?

        • #3195172

          Multilateral co-operation

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to The US DEA

          Perhaps Americans aren’t aware, but there have been situations where the reverse has happened. Canadian law enforcement works in conjunction with US law enforcement, to the point of sending officers down to the US to participate in busts. These have been initiated by Canadian law enforcement – if the leads send them to the US, there is usually good co-operation. This helps in situations where they want to make simulatenous raids on both sides of the border.

          If the DEA are conducting undercover operations in Canada, I am sure they notify local officials and are subject to following Canadian laws regarding wiretapping, searches etc.

          If Marc Emery was stupid enough to send hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of seeds to the US and think he was safe, then he should have researched the law before he sent the first shipment. Plus there is the money laundering charge. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

          My understanding is that selling seeds is illegal in Canada, but not prosecuted. No one should say thats the same as legal. Just because we tolerate it within our borders, doesn’t mean we should expect our neighbours to tolerate it cross border – and thats the real point – Marc shipped across the border, and he should have realized the potential consequences, consulted with a lawyer.

          James

        • #3195157

          Now that is just silly talk

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Multilateral co-operation

          Why bring unbiased logic into this? It is much more interesting to hear how the US NEVER co-operates with Canada and then turns around and treats it like a whipping boy.

          Yes, we all know that the entire contenent works together to fight the flow of drugs and has for a long time.

          Yes, we all know that just because something isn’t inforced in Canada has no bearing on if it will be enforced in other countries.

          Are you sure your REALLY Canadian James? ;\

        • #3196267

          One example

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Now that is just silly talk

          We have a huge problem with gun smuggling in Canada. Specifically firearms are bought in the US (maybe stolen too) and sent illegally into Canada where they often end up used in crimes. Estimates by the Toronto Police are that fully half the gun crimes in Toronto involve guns smuggled up from the US. Legal in US, illegal here….sounds familiar.

          Currently we don’t get co-operation from the US on this matter. But we’d like it. I think co-operating with the US on drug issues helps rather than hurts the issue.

          From an interview I heard this morning on CBC Radio, this guy shipped $3 million dollars of seeds last year. Not sure how many went to the US, and apparently he turns all his proceeds into the promotion of legalization, but its still a pretty huge volume to ignore.

          James

        • #3196181

          And you would find many members of the NRA

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to One example

          are in full support of enforcing ALL gun law that prohibit illegal sales or usage of all firearms.

          Don’t need new law, need to enforce the ones we already have.

          Sitting about 5 hours from you, and I never hear anything about this issue. Crazy, huh? Either the illegal trafficing OR of any lack of co-operation.

        • #3053195

          The thing of it is

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to And you would find many members of the NRA

          These guns are bought legally in the US, and then smuggled across the border illegally into Canada, where they find their way into the hands of criminals. So there isn’t a US law to enforce.

          The problem is highlighted by a rash of shootings in Toronto this week. Overall crime stats are down, but shootings are up. Check out the Toronto Star website for more info.

          And I am not in favour of the gun registry in Canada, because that will only track people who buy guns legally, and thats not where the problems are.

          James

        • #3051529

          Good point James

          by house ·

          In reply to And you would find many members of the NRA

          The registry is a simple cash grab for the government. People often fail to realize that procedures only apply to those who follow them.

          As for gun smuggling from the US, believe me, most of these guns are coming back with Canadians and not from US citizens. The original exchange is handled with the Americans, but WE bring the guns back for the most part.

        • #3050617

          Be fair though James

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to And you would find many members of the NRA

          Most of those guns ARE registered legally and owned by upstanding citizens of America who like a little sport.

          Then some low-life breaks into thier home or car and steals it, smuggles it out the country, scrubs and and fences it. Then someclow-life from Canada, buys one, thanks the US and goes and shoots up a kid who resembles his highschool girlfriend that cheated on him at the prom.

          So technically, a lot of the guns are registered, but the bottom feeding dregs of society will always find a way.

          Edit: to be more inline with the topic;

          That sawm lowlife that stole the gun, sells it to a Canadian drug dealer who shoots another drug dealer that is cornering his $400,000/yr enterprise. So then they go and arrest Marc Emery for selling the drug dealer the seeds. Hmmmmmm.

          Fair enough, now go and do the same in Amsterdam and parts of South America too, the criminals sure as hell will.

          What? are they pissed that they blew so much cash in Iraq, so they have to get others to waste some taxpayers money and take heat too?

          It’s just such a PATHETIC example of law enforcement,our tax dollars and international alliances at work. Very sad result.

        • #3196174

          No oil money

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to One example

          HE has to fund his own campaigns flights across the country etc.

          3 million is a spit in the bucket really, how much is spent when others campaign? And in most cases with huge monetary support from those who support them. People just don’t like someone that speaks for the minority anymore, absolute power and control is a must it seems.

        • #3053183

          Can anyone clarify?

          by beads ·

          In reply to One example

          Since I am not really in the know, here. How many seeds would it take to make three (3) million, guessing, Canadian dollars, worth of pot seeds?

          Understand that this is not a trivial amount but before I go out on to Chicago’s busy streets and make enquiries – can anyone shed some light on the amount? LOL.

          Probably be arrested for making such an inquiry as my office looks at City Hall here but curiosity is curiosity.

          – beads

        • #3051693

          Not too sure but…

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Can anyone clarify?

          If you search for marijuana seed sales you will get all the other ‘dealers’ too.
          They range in the $200.00 range per packet, which is based on ssquare meters of plant and apporximate yield per packet. Avg. seems to be abour 400- 450 grams indoor and 500 grams outdoor.

          He also sells hydroponic equipment, which is completely legal here and there are MANY hydroponic stores that cater to the indoor grower of ‘household plants and vegetables” Some of these store in upscale areas too. There is a LOT of money it as is his books and guides, bongs and pipes etc.

          It’s a big trade. But now lets look at th guy who buys $1000 worth of seeds.

          Emery makes a portion of that, after expenses are removed of course. $1000 would be about 5 packets or 2500 grams of marijuana is worth about $37,000 if sold in small quntity on the street. So a big grow op, unvesting many thousands in seeds could be looking at returns upwards of a quarter million. And yet they focus on Emery’s income instead of those distributin a clutivated bud to the kids on the street and earning immense sums for 60 days work.

          Even Emery’s webite clearly stated that seeds were Canadian and Dutch. Again, why isn’t anyone raiding a store in Amsterdam, love to see how well that would go over. And they actually have legalized smoke there, so these guys are facing less of a sentence than Emery.

          Emery’s site is shut down, with a few links to other stories on how the BC Marijuana Party decries a loss of sovereignity, a discussion forum about the raids, and updates available on tha Cannabis Culture website (Emery’s magazine).

          They also encourage people to call local authorities and provide the phone numbers for the Mayors Office, The Vancouver Police and The Vancouver Sun newspaper (a very high profile paper that always supports Emery)as well as a link colecting donations for Emery’s legal fund, as always.

          They are also having a rally of defiance that advertises free weed for attendees. It WILL be sizeable!
          http://www.emeryseeds.com/

        • #3196176

          Not teh same though

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Multilateral co-operation

          As I have said before, I completely understand cooperation between forces, epsecially in a case of a multinational drug ring or murder case.

          But this is just the DEA launching an investigation in Canada and then requesting a Canadian search and arrest warrant followed by extradition for POT SEEDS.

          I just can’t explain how politically wrong such cooperation can seem. This is an issue with US drug operations that have many such outlets for the product around the world. Marc Emery was a statement by the police alowed by the crown, that was really ‘crossing the line’ that’s all. When these cooperative agreements are first imposed, this is the lax use of it that people fear and oppose. As I said, next thong they’ll be arresting some poor pisssed off kid in Montreal for his website suggesting people jaywalk.

        • #3053193

          He committed a crime in the US

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Not teh same though

          Just the same as if he did telephone fraud or internet scam or whatever to a US citizen – he shipped pot seeds to US citizens. Thats the difference.

          You may see politics in why they chose to target him, and you wouldn’t be wrong. But he did allegedly ship pot seeds to US citizens and launder money in the US. He isn’t being charged with anything he did in Canada that stayed in Canada. I think you will find the raid was to get evidence of his US shipments.

          James

        • #3051466

          rope..

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to He committed a crime in the US

          manilla rope, still heavily used on ships is made from the “pot” plant.

          yup, it’s the stems rubbed into fibers and spun / woven into rope.

          so how can you state unilaterally that those seeds were used for criminal enterprise of growing a narcotic? the grower could very well have been growing for making rope, as well as clothing.
          ( hemp based clothing is as soft as silk, and stronger than denimn. )

        • #3051391

          Hemp

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to rope..

          I’ve met growers of hemp -its perfectly legal (in Canada not sure about US) because the THC content is extremely low. But you would be extremely naive to think that thats what he was selling.

          I can state that it was criminal because it is a crime in the US to sell or distribute pot seeds in the US. I am sure Marc knew that or ought to have known.

          James

        • #3051283

          ~G~

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to rope..

          it’s actually the male plant that the rope and clothing is made from.
          the female is the one that has the high thc content.
          the thc is used to catch the pollen from the male to make seeds.

          we all know that Marc is selling plants bred for high thc content. but if the females were being destroyed then the end user wasn’t growing for the narcotics use.
          ( not likely.. but possible )

          at 1000 an acre to license from Candaian government to grow legal hemp crops it ain’t a cheap crop.

          but the return is about 20 thousand an acre so it does pay well.

        • #3051168

          That’s the concern though James

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to rope..

          BC politicians are FOR conservative drug laws, BC COURTS are for conservative drug laws.

          Our people, 7 out of 10 are FOR conservative drug laws and don’t knock the recent decriminalization at all.

          So the problem is, due to this agreement between our nations, our LEGAL hands are bound, the courts and those enforcing the laws, when they are bein gpaid by taxpayers.

          They are FORCED/OBLIGATED to act on the US behalf, thus WASTING our resources and undermining a major issue that supported decriminalization in the first place; the freeing up these resources for what the PEOPLE of Canada deem more imperative than a costly war on drugs that doesn’t resolve any real problems.

          As for HEMP seeds and the HEMP byproduct used for textiles and rope. Emery’s store ALSO sells hemp clothing, as do two other related stores on the same block, he also sells books on how to create your own textiles from it and how to grow it for such uses.

          OF COURSE there’s the underlying abilty for someone to grow a stash and make millions that way too (thus makin gthem a far bigger criminal that would obtain these seeds through countless other outlets), we aren’t completely unaware of this, but in Canada it has been the majority opinion that our tax money is better spent on more realistic solutions and policing our real problems instead. And that is a major issue behind Canadians feeling a los of sovereignity due to this binding agreement.

        • #3051159

          Nice but

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to rope..

          They guarantee female plants.

          Or you can buy HEMP seeds and books on how to make your own hemp products, which is acceptable here.

          Even small grow ops here are no big deal, people with a dozen or so plants are left alone.

          We’ve decriminalized it to save our tax money from being wasted on a war on drugs we don’t feel is needed. But now we are still bound to make these silly little arrests at teh expense of OUR tacpayers because another country thinks we should.

        • #3050667

          Sexing your plants

          by house ·

          In reply to rope..

          is what it really comes down to. It is up to the grower to drop the females early if he/she wants a very low THC content.

          I’ll admit though, Marc’s seeds are rarely used for clothing and rope. BC Big Bud, Northern Lights, and AK 47 – thanks bud-eye – three of the strongest ropes in the world. So I’ve heard. 😉

        • #3052073

          Wild hemp

          by beads ·

          In reply to rope..

          Wild hemp makes the best rope – period. Though illegal to grow in the United States after WW II its still available outside of the US. In fact it goes quite well on my farm in Michigan. Not to confuse anyone but I do live in Chicago for now but have a little 80 acres farm in Northern Michigan as well.

          Other outstanding hemp facts (or what I really learned in college)

          – Most of the signaturers of the Declaration of Independance, grew hemp!

          – Washington and Jefferson also grew hemp! Though I doubt they’d want to smoke the stuff.

          – Growing wild hemp was common in the midwest until after World War II primarily for War time rope usuage but can be used to make a study denim like material as well. I find hemp clothing to be a bit stiff myself.

          Enjoy!

          – beads

        • #3051916

          Hemp clothing

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to rope..

          Hemp clothing is for sale all over Vancouver. When it was first inroduced, and as you say, it was very stiff and itchy, much like a burlap…at first.

          I have since seen dress shirts (of all colors), bikini’s, pants, jackets, hats, DRINKS (yes they sell hemp iced tea etc.)etc.

          the clothes now, you wouldn’t tell from a dress shirt anywhere else, except it is much cooler while still being FAR more durable and longer wearing.

          Times have changed, hemp is now a textile such as cotton or wool, it is more durable than other textiles, and MUCH more expenve too due to the very limited production and costs incurred.

        • #3051855

          Yeah

          by house ·

          In reply to rope..

          Durability aside, it’s way too starchy. I’m not a fan of hemp clothing. Maybe for industrial cargos – that’s about it.

        • #3053185

          US DEA – Its the tip of the Iceburg

          by beads ·

          In reply to The US DEA

          Frankly, I have personally seen battalions of foriegn: Troops, police and “investigators” of various types here in the US for years. I have meet RMCP as well as others working with “local and federal” law enforcement types “investigating” or “training” here on US soil on various accounts.

          Its no secret that we have even had Chinese soldiers using one of our main strategic training centers in California. To think for one half of one second that this sort of thing isn’t reciprical is ludicrous.

          You seem to think that Bush, the Republican party, the Nuns down at St. Barbara’s and Max Edison are out to get you, OZ, and Canada in general. Most Americans either think or treat Canada like some sort of 51st state with its own currency. Sad but true. Likewise, I have meet Canadians with a huge chip on thier shoulder concerning this little inferiority complex with being America’s northern nieghbor. Take your pick find one group or another and someone will choose to dislike or hate them for whatever reason, whatever time – just for being. Its a simple fact of human nature and niether of us is going to change it, at least, overnight.

          Whats really happening in American politics is the normal cyclical shift in politics that swings from liberal to conservative and back to more liberal politics again. The biggest thing in the conservative adgenda is to convert all us stupid heathens to good southern, Bible-bumpin’ conservatives. All while transfering as much money to themselves from around the globe to thier own personal pockets. It doesn’t matter to these people where the money comes from: Africa, the middle-east or Europe as a whole. They want the money – honey! Thats what you get from oil Barrons running the country. Southern style Gooberisms and the rape of the environment with a little preaching to act as a cover to boot.

          That my enlightened friends is what is really happening here in America. The guy selling a few ounces of pot seeds is nothing more than a casualty of American policy. A shamefull example at that but there are others more egregiously trampled by the current administration. See Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

          – beads

    • #3051754

      You Guys Better Comply

      by dr dij ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      or Bush will ask for $80 billion to fight the War on Drugs, and invade Canada! 🙁

      Too bad they closed down that 300′ border tunnel! It was kind of clever. Even made it onto Daily Show

      • #3051740

        Pissed

        by beads ·

        In reply to You Guys Better Comply

        George (Bush) is just pissed that he didn’t think of it first.

        Imagine he’ll be asking for plans for a tunnel to Ottowa from DC, next. When what he needs is a tunnel back to Tex-ass where theres a village whose missing thier idiot.

        – beads

        • #3051519

          Give him SOME credit

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Pissed

          He’d at least qualify for STATE idiot.

          I mean, look at how well he’s done at being the whole world’s idiot!

          There was another article in a local newspaper today about Enery and how they have asked for an inch and taken a mile with the whole Canadian court cooperation.

          The next page had a write up on a Cuban band that is playing in BC. The opening patagraph is (and again this is to showcase a Cuban band, LOL)

          “Add to the list of reasons to hate George Bush the fact that he refuses to lift the embargo on Cuba. Not only does this leave the country impoverished, it also deprives the rest of the world or some incredible music. Furtunately La Candela are here to take up the slack.”

          This is local news, I guess he has made quite an impression onpeople other than myself.:D

        • #3051257

          It takes a village.

          by beads ·

          In reply to Give him SOME credit

          If Hillary Clinton was right about: “It takes a village to raise a child.” And your (Oz) is right that Bush is the idiot of the state of atleast Texas. Then we can correlate that it took the entire global village to raise this idiot; to a new hieght at the very least.

          As for Cuba. It does seem rather un-Christian of him to not lift an embargo against another “Christian” country now doesn’t it? Of course the official stance is “Athiest” but I have never meet an Athiest Cuban. There are many here in Chicago as well.

          Ahhh… to be a hypocrite and still feel good about ones mixed morals.

          – beads

        • #3051175

          They’re just pissed because they lost thier playground

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to It takes a village.

          They all used to hang out in Cuba and treat it like a retreat for the wealthy, actually it WAS a retreat for the wealthy.

          Castro kicked ’em out of the sandbox and they’re still personally miffed.

          Political reasons, sure they can find dozens, just as Bush can find dozens to support his BS or others here do the same.

    • #3051515

      Emery released on bail, back to the store

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      Emery will be allowed to return to his Hastings street ‘bookstore’ and resume political activities as leader of teh B.C.Marijuana party.

      Aw hell, I may as well try and offer the key points, the article was pretty long.

      [b]Canada is being forced to fight the US war on drugs on it’s own soil says the BC Civil liberties Assn.[/b]

      Murray Mollard, BCCLA executive director says the treaty bind the hands of Canadian Law enforcement and the courts.

      “Clearly there’s a real appetite here for treating drug issues differently that the Americans” Mollard said “And yet we find ourselves being bound by having to facilitate a war on drugs that the majority of Canadians don’t want to persue”

      Almost seven ou of 10 Canadians support the marijuana decriminalization according to a recent poll by Canada SES Research.

      IN a city where councillors back progressive drug policies, Emery’s arrest has prompted local politicians to question the role of the police.

      “I can think of a lot worse problems in the city that need attention from the police.”MPA Coun. Sam Sullivan says.

      And Emery’s lawyer questioned why his client had never been charged locally before.
      “For nine years (Emery has) been doing this quite openly and they’ve done nothing about it.”

      Emery was granted $50,000 bail, although the Crown has asked he remain in custody, arguing the 47-year old was likely to re-offend. Emery will be allowed to return to work at his Hastings street bookstore and resume political activity as the leader of teh BC Marihuana Party. Emery’s next court appearance is in late August.

      So the problem being debated is that Vancouver POlice were directly involved in this case to enforce a law that 70% of Canadians do not oppose. This is considered a complete waste of our resources in order to satisfy a US war on drugs, THAT is the key issue being puched now.

      It’s a waste of OUR time and OUR taxpayers money.

      • #3051498

        And you don’t see a problem with this?

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Emery released on bail, back to the store

        If it is okeydoky, then why hasn’t the laws been changed yet? When you have a law that everyone is allowed to ignore just because it isn’t popular it undermines the rest of the laws. Someone else can then come back and use this as grounds, because he doesn’t agree with a different law.

        You can’t pick and choose which laws you will obey and expect to maintain order.

        • #3050642

          I see a different problem than you see.

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to And you don’t see a problem with this?

          Ambivalence. Voters, cops, and judges are ambivalent about pot. They think it’s bad, but not a lot worse than beer, possibly not even [i]as bad[/i] as strong varieties of distilled liquor. The result is that none of us know what’s what.

          I like smoking pot, but I don’t have time for the legal process, to which I can be subjected at any time by a police officer who needs to make his quota. Or a neighbor who didn’t get free tech support. 🙁

          At the same time, real criminals can finance other, truly criminal activities, by selling an innocuous plant at a cost that’s inflated by misguided law, because it still tastes better than beer to a lot of people, and is at least equally fun to a lot of the same people.

          Prohibiting harmless behavior only punishes harmless people.

        • #3050632

          The people

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to I see a different problem than you see.

          As I’ve mentioned before, the government in Canada is relatively quiet and low key, but it does listen to the people and will seem to act for the people due to the way our parliment alllows a little more equal opinion beteen parties and thus represents a broader voice from several groups of supporters.

          Canadian courts have been against drug laws and want more conservative laws, politicians and police feel the same way, thier time could be better spent on more harmful issues than pot.

          The people of the country feel the same way, the entire country has a conservative vew of marijuana use and doesn’t feel that citizens shouls be penalized. To this time, it has merely been decriminalization, not legalization yet.

          But that made EVERYONE happy. So to see a man’s arrest as per a US request based on stiffer drug laws and what is seen as a wasteful war on drugs, it doesn’t sit well. Not with the people, not with the courts, not with the police and not with the politicians. BUT, we are BOUND by agreement that can be used in so many other very useful ways, and yet is wasted on senseless and USELESS issues such as this.

          Absolutely, you are right; “Prohibiting harmless behavior only punishes harmless people.”

          Not a single death due to marijuana on record in history. Yet you (the US in general)support gun ownership?

          From another of many different sources of info I’ve run across:

          “The total number of deaths (in the USA) due to all the illegal drugs combined is about 4,500 people (2500, 2000 herion, marijuana 0). Now compare 4,500 deaths with the number of deaths due to prescription drugs, alcohol (which is about 80,000 people), tobacco, over-the-counter aspirin, and sidestream smoke. The total number of deaths due to these [b]legal[/b] drugs is well over 500,000 people — every year. The multi-billion dollar drug war ignores the half-a-million deaths due to legal drugs and instead makes the illogical claim that 4,500 deaths due to illegal drugs justifies a multi-billion dollar shooting war.”

        • #3050608

          I can’t believe you don’t see the logic in that!

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to The people

          1: illegal drugs cause 4,500 deaths/year
          2: making war on illegal drugs costs more than $1B (conservative estimate, you’ll see why!)
          3: legal drugs kill 500,000 people/year, over 100 times as many!

          Do the math: making war on legal drugs would just be too expensive, it would cost at least 100 times as much as our present war on drugs!

          I’m really tired of people who vote for “harsher sentencing guidelines” for drug offenses, because they can only be brain-dead if they don’t understand that the drug-[i]related[/i] crimes — crimes against person and property — will still be illegal without the idiotic anti-drug laws that make drugs expensive, which in turn [i]causes[/i] drug-related crimes, both of person and property.

          The real reason for the drug war: most gangster movies with no dramatic value, written by writers who can only create suspense via special effects, rely on the drug culture for their “plots”.

        • #3052085

          LOL

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to I can’t believe you don’t see the logic in that!

          YOu got me with your title though! 😀

        • #3050504

          Deaths due to drugs

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to The people

          There are more issues than just people dieing from ODing.

          How many car crashes were there because the driver was stoned?

          How many people got shot because of turf wars?

          I am just playing devils advocate here, as all the worst case senerios should be reviewed to the just how bad something can get to decide if it is a good or bad thing.

          Yes, I know people that function perfectly fine while using pot but I have also met MANY that are totally useless once they light up.

          Legalize and regulate strongly.
          zero tollerance while driving.
          zero tollerance for anyone that is responsible for the lives of other people.
          zero tollerance around children.

          Besides that, your not my problem if you light up or not.

        • #3052081

          That’s included

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Deaths due to drugs

          THose issues were included in the numbers.

          That’s ONE of the reasons deaths due to legal drugs (alcohol, over the counter medication and prescription medication) was so much higher.

          Aspirin can be a LETHAl drug if not taken responsibly, it causes severe internal bleeding of the liver and kidneys fail. People use it to kill themselves all teh time. Another point is that in areas such as much of poorer England, Australia etc. where marijuans availability is far lower than here, they have LEGAL drug problems, sniffers (glue, paint and solvents) which creates FAR mroe aggressive behaviour and violence than smoking pot does.

          SO your question of how many people have died from smoking pot and driving stoned (on marijuana) = 0

          There has yet to be a SINGLE death contributed to the use of marijuana, in any fashion.

          Perhaps smoking and DRINKING has caused accidents resulting in death, those two must be carefully mixed, but it is the alcohol that creates the severe impairment and inability to drive safely, not pot.

          If you ever get stuck behind a guy doing 50MPH in the right lane of the highway, that’s the stoner. The guy on legal drugs is speeding down the express lane, running STOP signs and flying through your children’s school zone.

        • #3052058

          turf wars

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Deaths due to drugs

          Zero, when drugs are legal. Without prohibition, supply will increase relative to demand, which has been shown not to increase with legalization (NL), until being a drug dealer is “barely profitable”. Standard economic theory: competition causes profit margins to narrow (to the point that they are not worth killing, and risking dying, to protect!), and only the most efficient businesses can cut production costs enough to compete.

          All your zero tolerance requirements are reasonable to me, as long as they are applied equally to alcohol & cigs.

      • #3051254

        Waste

        by beads ·

        In reply to Emery released on bail, back to the store

        Have to agree with Oz that its a complete waste of time, effort and money – on both sides of the border.

        The question is, as I do not know the local politics in Canada, how difficult would it be to legalize marijuana in Canada? Is this a BC versus the other provinces issue? Or does the rest of Canada, outside of BC, feel friendly twoard the whole issue?

        Get the law repealed and the US will have nothing to say or waste money on the issue in the first place, now will we?

        – beads

        • #3051245

          Legalize no, decriminalize yes

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Waste

          What we have today in Canada, is a defacto criminalization – the law still exists but is unenforceable for small amounts, based on a few court decisions. Larger amounts, for the purposes of trafficking, are still actively prosecuted. While each police force has some discretion, they act pretty much the same across the country.

          Decriminalizing would make possession an offense, like a speeding ticket -pay your fine, no criminal record, no huge drain on the courts.

          I haven’t seen a survey but most of the country doesn’t seem to be all worked up over simple possession of small amounts of marijauna.

          James

        • #3051166

          Good and bad

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Legalize no, decriminalize yes

          Decriminalization is not the real focus of the marijuana advocates though. IN the past, if you were caught, they’d give you aa stare (MAYBE) take it away and that would be that.

          If you were caught with LARGE amounts, then it would be taken to court, though often thrown ou in no time and with little repercussion to teh offender.

          IF they busted some guy selling dime bags on Hastings, he would be selling dime bags on Hastings later that day or the next morning after it was tossed out of court.

          They can drag ’em off to jail, but they can’t seem to find a judge to convict them. This cost the city MILLIONS each year, OUR money was being wasted.

          NOW, they impose a HEFTY fine instead, so they don’t have to waste court time, but most people would not bother paying it anyway. If push came to shove, a free lawyer would get you off on a minimal charge.

          SO NOW they just stand to make money off the issue and it STILL hasn’t been resolved. People are still facing fines and possible legal action (bench warrant for failing to pay it).

          As for Canadian public opinion, a recent enws piece in Vancouver said recent studies show 7 in 10 in FAVOUR of decriminalization. Which is one step closer to legalization but if the city does make money, that wil never happen.

          They aren’t writing the tickets though, just telling people to take it elsewhere and away from people , if in public.

          So, it’s niether here nor there really, no legalization, no criminal charges, no tickets seem to be handed out. Nothing really changed, here anyway.

        • #3051143

          do you know which

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to Good and bad

          case was the power behind the attitudes here?
          it’s actually kind of funny.

          since possesion for personal use wasn’t a criminal offense someone with 5 kilos of pot in his trunck made that claim when charged.
          the judge ruled in his favour.

          seems having 5 kilos of pot is not for purposes of trafficing.. when you live 120 miles from town, up in the arctic… and get caught with it in september.

          that loophole was plugged afterwards. yet the legal system is acting like it hasn’t been. the new legislation is more specific on what it personal use, yet I do think a judge would take into account remote residence in an extreme climate still.

        • #3050709

          Decriminalization fines

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to do you know which

          Are actualy quite clear now,under 15 grams, nice number that makes a half ounce slip under the radar, though there is a $100-$400 fine they CAN impose.

          You face a fine, over 15 grams and you face a criminal charge. .

          A comment about decriminalization and US laws;

          “There is no basis for Bush’s claim, and he himself must know that. What must really concern him is that if our experiment with decriminalization succeeds, it will underscore the embarrassing failure of his own drug policy, and will increase pressure for decriminalization in the USA.

          Bush’s marijuana policy is fatally flawed, because even if he could completely eradicate the supply of pot, Americans would use other substances to get high. Take Japan, for example: There, marijuana has been scarce, and young people have instead resorted to sniffing solvents and using amphetamines. Evidently, eliminating the supply of marijuana can actually encourage more dangerous practices!”

          The Nixon era war on drugs, when voices don’t say what htey WANT to hear, they are hushed. Seems this happened in the Bush era too, with the reports to congress too when it was shown that the US was breaching agreement regarding the OFF sanctions as did Saddam.

          Nixon hides the truth:
          http://www.alternet.org/story/12666/

    • #3050488

      Different Question

      by bfilmfan ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      Don’t support terrorism! Buy home-grown and made American drugs!

      I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion flaming!

      This could qualify as the Firday yuck, no?

      • #3052078

        Cute

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Different Question

        Yup you’re right there, but unfortunately, Americans aren’t happy if someone has something they don’t.

        The good ole US homey just isn’t sutting it when the homey here is worth a near moint in the USA.

        One problem I do see a lot of is Coke coming here FROM the USA and being traded straight across for weed (BC Bud). Sure coke is cheap crap now, compared to what I was doing in my sex drugs and rock’n roll heyday, but it’s still an illegal substances that floods our country from the south and causes FAR more harm to Canadians than Canadian weed has EVER caused in America.

        • #3051054

          That is part of the problem

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Cute

          using one problem to justify another.

          Something else they did is worse, so what we do doesn’t matter.

          How about just hold everyone accountable for what they do?

          If there is such a “problem” with US coke, then why doesn’t the Canadian government DO something about it?
          If there are illegal guns coming in, why doesn’t the Canadian government DO something about it?
          If there is sludge dumping, why doesn’t the Canadian government DO somethign about it?

          You were talking about self-evaluation further down. I think there are plenty of problems in paradise that just aren’t being addressed by your current government that you are perfectly content to blame the US for. You don’t LIKE a war on crime, but you complain about US coke coming in? Pick a side, and make sure you like what they are about before critisising the other.

        • #3051024

          Quid Pro Quo

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to That is part of the problem

          You can rest assured that the “quid Pro quo” for the DEA setting up in Vancouver and Toronto, and allowing the RCMP to have offices in the US is to increase the level of co-operation betwen the agencies to tackle these very problems.

          I know I’ve complained about illegal guns coming in, but I read in the Toronto Star over the weekend that ATF is working with the RCMP on the issue, and the RCMP are happy with the progress.

          I don’t ever think two wrongs make a right.

          And I think if Marc is going to send seeds to the US, he should be aware of the laws and criminal procedures in the US, and adjust his behaviour accordingly. If he only shipped to Canada, we wouldn’t be having this chat.

          James

        • #3050991

          Very well spoken

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Quid Pro Quo

          and right to the point.

          How can anyone disagree with anything you just wrote? Especially because it agrees with me? 🙂

          I do think people should pick their battles. Marc didn’t think his out as well as he thought he did. Cashed in his princibles for money because selling seeds in the US does NOTHING to further his agenda in Canada except for making HIM money instead of patitioning to get pot legalized.

        • #3050859

          Tell me

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Very well spoken

          You and several others have referred to HIS money.

          What kind of car does he own?

          Where did he buy his house?

          WHat type of watch does he wear?

          A) Doesn’t own a car

          B) DOesn’t own a home

          C) A Timex if anything.

          He doesn’t HAVE money, millions goes all around the world in support of people’s legal defense (thier right) and to help bail people out, as well as operating his book business, magazine and internet TV station.

          HE isn’t a money grabbing capitalist, you’d need to set aside all of your business knowledge to understand his position.

          He is an activist, not into material possessions AT ALL, and has nothing for himself.

          THat 3 million figure that was tossed around was complete crap, HE doesn’t have 3 million any more than you do because the company YOU work for makes millions.

        • #3050860

          Have you followed Emery’s case at all?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Quid Pro Quo

          In a very recent interview, which I have provided lonks to, he was asked if he considered that and he agreed he had and was prepared to face life in jail or even execution if need be as that is his life’s work. He said one issue is the ridiculous sentences handed out for drugs in teh US, and if HE has to face that then he will.

          But it does not mean it’s right either, the US should not be able to ask for people’s arrest in Canada, when the root of the problem is the criminals and growers in the USA. Not the criminals and sellers in Canada. OF course again I must include teh exception for serial murderers, people who jump borders to escape police etc.

          THat’s not what Emery does, Canada’s government accepts his above board and very prominent business, they take his tax money.

        • #3052788

          Very simple

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Have you followed Emery’s case at all?

          We have a treaty with the US. We respect their laws (offences spelled out in the treaty). They respect ours.

          If I as an Ontario Citizen, get a speeding ticket in New York state, I lose points on my Ontario license. Reciprocity. A New York driver in Ontario would have the same thing happen.

          What Marc does within Canadian boundaries is none of the DEA’s concern. Thats for Canada to deal with. When Marc ships to the US, he breaks US law. Since drugs are part of the agreement for extradition between our two countries, then he is liable to face charges. He should not be suprised.

          If I ship dangerous goods to the US, I should know what the legalities of the situation, or I could be charged. How is this any different? Only because its a “political” issue.

          James

        • #3052761

          James – Correct me if I’m wrong

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Very simple

          .
          I assume that the Canadian shipping procedures, rules and regulations are similar, if not identical, to the US, at least in regards to this kind of thing.

          If I ship goods to Canada, as I often do, I must declare the contents and the value of the shipment. Furthermore, I am prohibited from shipping certain items; and when I ship things to Canada (or anywhere, for that matter), I must also declare that these prohibited items are not being shipped. Sure, I could lie about it, but I’d be breaking US postal regulations and US law. I assume the same would apply in Canada.

          http://sss-web.usps.com/gxg/jsps/showStdProhibitions.jsp

          So it appears as though Emery is breaking Canadian postal laws, Canadian drug laws and America’s drug laws.

        • #3052555

          Resources

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Very simple

          A Scout learns to be WISE in teh use of his resources. I don’t see this as a wise use of Canada’s resources and neither do most Canadians.

          IN th ecase of your trafic ticket, yes, you will get a fine applied to your licence.
          In Canada, there would be a fine imposed on Emery, or a minimal sentence.

          Now if you were speeding in Canada, but OUR laws said that was a 10 year jail term, and your laws said it was a $150.00 ticket, we would be justified in having you arrested in Colorada to face a 10 year term for speeding in Canada?

          I know you will say yes, but if it happened you would certainly would see it as ridiculous Canada overstepping thier boundaries.

          Just because you CAN doesn’t mean it is ethical to do so. You guys need some new laws, then these issues wouldn’t even be issues, as they have not been issues here.

        • #3052546

          Was your (Oz) resources message directed at me?

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Very simple

          .
          If it was, and by your selective use of a few words, it seems as though it was, I’ll remind you that I didn’t use a traffic ticket analogy. So you’ll have to direct the question to the guy who did. I used a Post Office comparison analogy. But I understand if you forgot — that short term memory thing, and all.

        • #3052544

          Partially

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Very simple

          It was actually James who said “If I as an Ontario Citizen, get a speeding ticket in New York state, I lose points on my Ontario license. Reciprocity. A New York driver in Ontario would have the same thing happen.”

          I agree, a law broken somewhere else is a law broken somewhere else.

          The reason this particular case is such an issue is due to the differences in law. Similar to the lady who was arrested for smuggling drugs through Australia and thrown in jail. Her penaties for being tried outside of Australia were incredible and contested by many.

          In this case, it is a ridiculous penalty too. I mean no teven realistic, if it was even 1 yr in Canada compared to 5 in th eUS, it wouldn’t be so harsh, but when facing a slap on th wrist here and facing life in the US, it’s just a bit incredible.

          I agree, he should face charges if he has broken a US law, but the penalty is FAR from being even somewhat realistic, and this has been his stand all along and a reason he is such an advocate of personal freedom, which apparently you support.

          So seeing as you suport the personal freedom issue, and I am sur eyou also oppose such extreme sentences, how do you support your country extraditing him and TRYING to enforce such horrendous charges upon him.

          It’s not so much the factor of him breaking, a law, it’s the ability of your government to request he face such extreme penalties in the first place, and OUR resources being wasted on it when it is deemed somewhat acceptable here.

          I don’t think ANYONE should be facing such charges to begin with, neither do you and neither does Emery.

          MY tax money being used to enforce unrealistic laws in YOUR country really gets to me. If we both (US and Canada) deemed it a terrible offence and people were hurt or placed at risk because of it, then I would not be so opposed, I think. We need to get dangerous criminals off th estreets and a joint force has done so effectively, this is not a dangerous criminal, the guys who run US grow ops are, and they would do it with or without his help. The reasoning being stated as a way to deal with these criminals and grow ops in the US is just ridiculous. Throw THEM in jail for life. Solve the problem, not the bit players.

          This has been shown as a problem due to Canada’s lax laws, but these criminals exist, always have and always will and THAT’s a problem you need to resolve in your OWN country, not mine at MY expense.

        • #3052531

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Very simple

          – See new thread

        • #3050861

          Gee you missed that point

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to That is part of the problem

          I was makign the exact same point you’ve just attempted to make.

          The problems WE address are problems with OUR borders, OUR security, OUR governmenty and OUR citizens.

          The problems YOU address are OUR problems with OUR government, OUR security and OUR citizens.

          See the difference?

          YOU try and fix OUR (and others) problems because you dont like them, and you have no place in trying to do so.

          WE try to fix our own problems and in the case of decriminalization that was one of our governments resolutions at the demand of the people.

          You are tryign to fix your problems with organized crime, and gansters trying to protect thier drugs with guns, but you do it by launching an investigation and requesting OUR courts and OUR tax money is then spent seeing OUR citzen brought to the US for trial?

          THat’s the problem, we don’t come there and start demanding that you arrest these gun owners so WE can put them on trial, with much more stringent guns laws here.

          But as your last ppost really proves, you are more interested in someone else fix THIER problem than accepting that you have your own problems.

          When IO m,entioned that and included issues that we have and how WE deal with these issues in our own country, your instant defense is to say that we need to address OUR problems.

          MYOFB?

        • #3052711

          You need a vacation

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Gee you missed that point

          You have continually complained about the issues I brought up, and then turn around and blame the US government, Bush, and US companies for it all instead of holding your current government responsible.

          You have continually complained about how there are worse offenders out there and more will fill Marc’s shoes as if this is a justification of leaving he to continue to break US laws.

          Go back and read James posts. He has it dead nuts. If you knowingly break a US law, you should not be suprised when you get charged with the CRIME that you knowingly committed.

          This isn’t about taking care of YOUR problem, it is about stopping someone from breaking US laws. All this little man had to do was not ship to the US and he would be able to prosue is dream of a stoned Canada.

          This is not a great human rights activist being persecuted, no matter how EMOTIONAL YOU GET, or how personal the attacks from you become.

          There is nothing else to this case than a man broke a law and now is getting charged with it. End of story. The best you can do is pray for him to find a “loophole” as you have brought earlier.

        • #3052558

          My life IS a vacation

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to You need a vacation

          What are you on about? If I want a holdiay, I have one.

          As for Emery,I already explained that he was fully aware of repercussions and accepts them, my beef IS with Canada’s government for bending over and I have said as much more than once in this thread, including my last reply to yoo. I also never said anything about Bush, as I said in my last comment. So why have you simply posted your same issues twice? I just replied to this.

          What I disagree with, is the WASTE of our money and resources fro a crime that Canada doesn’t see as a real crime. Nobody gets killed, raped, ripped off or anything, it’s a useless law that even Canadian courts don’t really agree with.

          Our money is being wasted, police, courts etc. to see if our courts deem him worthy of extradition.

        • #3052457

          How about if he is worth

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to My life IS a vacation

          breaking an agreement with another contry over. You were all bent out of shape at the thought of the US not taking the anwr agreement seriously? Or do you get to be the one to pick and chose which to honor and which to snub your nose at?

          You don’t get to pick and choose which law you like. You get the laws changed that you don’t like.

        • #3053148

          No you’ve missed the point on that one

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to My life IS a vacation

          I HAVE said that the law IS worthwhile and I support it’s use, wen actually USEFUL, or to rid the entire world of a criminal.

          I don’t support it’s use in this case especially considering the offence and sentence attributed to it. If the guy was running a meth lab and killing people, if he was protecting his drugs and stolen goods with a gun or booby traps, then I agree cooperation between both nations helps track and get these people out of society’s way. They pose a severe threat to human life.

          I also believe VERY sctrongly on the VICLASS/VICAP computer system that allows us to track these people around the globe and bring murderers, child molesters and serial killers to justice. These systems work, lives are saved, entire cities have been relieved of danger and many desereving criminals have been taken to jail.

          But as I’ve said time and time again, I feel this is a complete waste of tax payers money, it is ademinstrative action, not a resolution to anything, they should not be albe to use the agreement in such a meaningless and token manner unless in a full national or international investigation to bring down a threat.

          As for ANWR, I see that as yet ANOTHER example of how the US does as it chooses and ignores the basis for international agreements when it suits thier needs.

          So yes, ANWR AND Emery have been just another way of the US saying, FU, we’ll do what we want anyway.

        • #3053036

          We are pretty cool

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to My life IS a vacation

          I STILL have to wonder WHY the US is just NOW interested in him.

          As you have said, the Canadian government has tried numerous times (11 was it?) to shut him down but were unable to for various reasons. (loopholes)

          Do you not see it even REMOTELY possible that the Candian government ASKED the US government to take care of this politically charged issue FOR THEM? After all, what better way to solve this issue than with someone Candians believe is heavy handed anyways? Who will take the most heat, the Candians for following agreements as they HAVE TO or the Americans for CHOOSING to take this man on?

          I know that due to popular demand they are not prosocuting people for pot. Does that really mean they changed their mind against someone they tried 11 times to lock up?

          It really never does pay to make an enemy, because even if they can’t do something directly there are always other ways to get to you.

          Just a thought.

          Second thought, if Marc thinks he has such a good case and is in the right why is he fighting extradition in the first place? Day in court? Or doesn’t he think he has as good a chance in US courts as he did in Candian? Think what it would do for his “cause” if he WON in US courts?

        • #3052920

          jdclyde: is he worth extradition?

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to My life IS a vacation

          I haven’t researched all the precedents, but my impression is that extradition is generally reserved for violent criminals – terrorists or revolutionaries, especially. And if some of them have been drug dealers in the past, they are extradited because of their [b]direct[/b] role in violent crimes, either as perpetrator or organizer.

        • #3052892

          Excellent post JD

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to My life IS a vacation

          I see you have been thinking and have some very valid comments.

          THis is what I feel in THAT regard.

          1) I VERY highly doubt that Canada has looked upon the US for this. Canadian courts MAY want to see him taken down, but they strongly oppose th eharsh sentences passed out in teh US. I would give it a very small percentile of a possibility. .00001% about as much as you have considered it I think, it’s just not gonna happen.

          2)As for Marc’s defense.

          His defense is based on Canadian law, I don’t know if he would see the same options in the USA. He can probably beat out a Canadian court based on his political beliefs, but I don’t think that would help him too much in the US, though obviously it would be HIS take on the issue.

        • #3052874

          Absolutely, Canadian oversight

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to My life IS a vacation

          The Canadian government entered the agreement, which was supposed to enforce a cooperatiove war on drugs. I am suer nobody at the time expected it to be ‘misused’ in this fashion though.

          As I had mentioned before, this is TWO agreements that I have recently notice US abuse of. This and ANWR, ‘whatever works in US best interests’ is when these worthy agreement are trashed or abused.

          This is not really relevant to teh war on drugs, no drug dealers are stopped, even temporarily impeding supply wil increase demand, raise cost and increase crime in the USA.

          Apparently, as stated by US officials, this will help stop the organized crime and growers who protect thier crops with guns and booby traps. Uh, sure….do they really think people are that stupid? NO we aren’t all as out of touch with reality as ‘the authorities’ seem to be. Authority on what is what I question?

          The international systems for tracking serial killers, repeat offenders and dangerous persons across borders has been very effective, ViCLass and ViCap.

          This is just a jopint cooperation on a war on drugs, one where the two party’s involved have completely different views of and those differences are EXTREME not slight.

        • #3048332

          But the war on drugs IS working

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to My life IS a vacation

          for the United States corrections industry.

          It’s no coincidence that most of our public schools look just like our prisons. Since public schools cost more per pupil than private schools, the same construction company has paid politicians to prohibit so much of every day life that staying out of prison is a full-time job.

        • #3048190

          LOL

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to My life IS a vacation

          THat’s why I never get paid then is it?

    • #3052258

      An example of the ‘rational’ thought process

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      Reading info from Washington State’s Attorney’s office I have found that the DEA had been taking his mail and photocopying the return addresses on the envelopes, though nothing has been sumitted to incriminate others of course. How they visisted the seed shop, bought some seeds and had some more shipped to the USA, when they asked Marc if he could set them up with a couple of ponds of marijuana, he said he didn’t do that kind of thing and couldn’t help them out. AWWWWWW. 🙁

      But here’s a comment that made me laugh, gee what’s wrong with THIS picture?

      “We are not going to turn a blind eye to Marc Emery’s illegal multi-million dollar sales of marijuana seeds,” said U.S. Attorney John McKay. “The grows that sprout from those seeds are often protected by armed criminals or rigged with lethal booby-traps. They do significant environmental damage, and fuel the organized crime and drug trade that destroys lives.”

      First of all, he blames the seeds for creating an denvironment where criminals in the US protect thier grow ops with guns or booby-traps. Uh, excuse me, sir…don’t you think that the criminals would STILL be criminals without the seeds from Emery? Emery doesn’t provide information on buildin gbooby traps and he doesn’t tell them to buy a gun to protect thier crops.

      Secondly, and this one slays me, “They do significant environmental damage”

      Since when has anyone south of the Canadian border been concerned about environmental damage? If the US government was growing the weed, or if US companies were making millions, they would be defending it’s environmental acceptability.

      Again though: “…and fuel the organized crime and drug trade that destroys lives.”

      Where rock do they FIND these people under?

      Another comment, can’t find the page again now, was that they had FOUR drug ops that claimed they purchased seeds from Emery. So now, they are showing how they busted people but figure they’d go after the big guy instead? These US criminals, with guns and booby-traps apprently, have ratted out Emery as the source for ther seeds, being completely ignorant, the authorities feel that closing that seed shop will end the crime?

      Just click on IE or Firefox and buy the next batch. It’s not the seeds, it’s the criminals that see they are used to make a dollar off of drug users, pot is often bought by crack heads etc as a ‘come-down’ drug. It relieves stomache cramping and helps the apptite that is lost from Heroin and Crack withdrawl between fixes.

      Talk about barking up the wrong tree, these guys don’t seem to have the slightest CLUE what they are doing.

      Someone should arrest the DEA agents who investigated the case and have them infirmed for psychological evaluation, these people are obviously not sane enough to hold positions of authority.

      • #3050793

        uh, Oz..

        by jaqui ·

        In reply to An example of the ‘rational’ thought process

        heroin withdrawal painns are better eased by mixing one tablespoon of jello with one 8 oz glass of cold water and drinking it.
        the gelatin actually eases the transition of the heroin from the bone marrow, reducing pain drastically.
        ( got that from rehab worker here )

        and crack has no pain, it’s a purely mental addiction.

        yes, weed is often used as a painkiller for far more than just reducing pain from withdrawal, it is actually prescribed for cancer patients.
        ( compassion club membership card allows for chemo weed* ownership in any quantity with zero legal repercussions )

        *chemo weed, grown un the biology labs at UBC, with chemo-therapy drugs added to help people fighting cancer with both cancer and pain.

        • #3052745

          It does more than just pain management for Cancer

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to uh, Oz..

          For people that are normally too sick to eat from the chemo, it helps them eat. Helps with the nausia as well. They can live an almost normal life, instead of curled in a tetal posistion all day because of the pain and nausia.

          It really does make a difference for these people, which is why I think scumbags that pretend they are sick so they can get medical usage should suffer a painful time in prison being someones beotch because it hurts a very legitamate agenda.

          Until it is legalized, anyone abusing this program should be nailed harder than just a common user.

        • #3052714

          Medical Marijauna

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to It does more than just pain management for Cancer

          My wife has MS, at a relatively advanced state, so in Canada she would qualify for medical marijauna. But as her pain is infrequent, as we have kids and frankly smoking is not the best method, we currently aren’t interested in it. Perhaps at some point if things get worse, we will look for brownie recipes….

          James

        • #3052689

          James

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Medical Marijauna

          Sorry to hear, I know isn’t an easy thing to have to deal with.

          I have lost several family members, including my father when I was 17 to cancer. So when I see people abusing a program that offers another alternative for people who REALLY need it, it just burns me bad.

          But that isn’t what this discussion is about. It is about the average user toking down just because. I don’t have an issue with at, as long as it is honest about why they are doing it and how they are getting it.

        • #3052520

          Be mroe than happy to help

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Medical Marijauna

          NO green brownies either, YUMMY ones 🙂

          Also chocolates, drinks etc.

          The trick with food is to make BUTTER with it and then use the butter in the food. Whereas most people just throw a bag in and mix it up..

        • #3052508

          “which is why I think scumbags that pretend”…

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to It does more than just pain management for Cancer

          …that there were such serious drug problems before Nixon created the DEA that there is any excuse for the continuing existence of the DEA “should suffer a painful time in prison being someones beotch because it hurts a very legitamate agenda.”

        • #3052522

          Its mainly garbage though

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to uh, Oz..

          My best friend’s dad has a compassion club card, HIV and Hep C, and undergoing Chemo.

          It’s expensive and NOT the quality of teh ‘CHEMO WEED’ known on the street.

          The other growers, legal growers, were basically left to thier own devices. They cannot gain access to the seeds needed, legally, they can not get access to the right hydrophonic systems LEGALLY, they are left with small ops that offer little hope.

          In essence, compassion club is a failure due to NO government support, they are simply left to do thier thing. Well done Canada.

          But I suppose it’s a false hope of a beginning anyway, just like decriminalization, that does nothing but afford the city a way to make some money.

        • #3052507

          It does one other thing

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Its mainly garbage though

          “But I suppose it’s a false hope of a beginning anyway, just like decriminalization, that does nothing but afford the city a way to make some money.”

          It also discredits decriminalization and legalization movements among all but the most attentive, perceptive observers.

        • #3053103

          I wasn’t

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to Its mainly garbage though

          saying it works as intended by the people that developed the program.

          was just commenting on it’s existance, and how even before decriminalisation started the program could help avoid criminal charges for possesion.
          ( the cops can’t tell the difference between crappy medical weed and street weed by look, just like everyone else, they have to test* it. )

          * testing methods differ.. cops use labs.. peopleuse papers and flame. 😉

        • #3052856

          Yup

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to I wasn’t

          The only way the cops know is by the cards now, you’re right.

          I read it to mean that it was a good solution for those who need real help, but it isn’t.

        • #3046949

          but the whole

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to Yup

          medical weed issue is completely innaccurate, for me.

          there were 2 reasons I stopped smoking it.
          1) I would “tune out” and not notice anyone or anything.
          2) it intensified all sensations, specially pain.
          I have constant pain from scoliod curvature in my back. the pain can be exhibited as hypertense muscles to debilitating rib out of socket.
          I don’t need either intensified thanks. 🙂

        • #3046804

          I understand that too well

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to but the whole

          A a teenager I had severe scoliosis between the shoulder blades, not bad while walking or standing but any form of bending or lifting from a bent position was intense pain.

          I also had Scheuermann’s disease at the same time, causing a sway back curvature, which has pretty much repaired itself now as I have finished growing. Add three severe whiplash cases to that and you have a pretzel spine, I still much around under cars and lift heavy objects but have to be very aware of posture when working.

          One thing about SEVERE back pain, not just a stiff back or muscle spams, nobody can relate unless they’ve experienced it first hand.

          As for the medical grow, there were some suggestions that the DEA had been growing Emery’s seeds in a US university where a medical grow program was underway. But it has been proven that if so, they either screwed the strain up or didnt know what thet were doing, as the medical grade in the USA is very low in THC and has a high concentration of CBD instead. (A high CBD strain is available from Emery too, but the DEA had been buying high THC seeds from him for several years.)

        • #3046781

          Oz, I’m admitting & exhibiting a bit of ignorance here but……………

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to but the whole

          what is CBD??? I know about THC but CBD is a new one for me. I have no idea what the pain of scoliosis is like but understand it can be mind-numbingly drastic. I had a girl friend, once who had it but she had had it surgically corrected. However, even though it had been corrected she would sometimes suffer severe pain, which always left me feeling somewhat helpless as there was little or nothing I could do to help aleviate it, other than hold her hand and bring her water to help swallow her pills. She had prescriptions for Indocid, an anti-inflamatory and Demerol. I suggested that she try weed because I was only too aware of the dangers of Demerol and morphine addiction, having experienced it myself. One thing, I’ve always preferred hash to weed, since weed always screws up my nose and throat unlike hash. It’s hard to find hash now though since the high THC content of locally hydroponically grown weed makes hash much less economical.

          My return to the use of the “devil weed” was predicated upon my being dumb enough to somehow acquire MS seven years ago. However, I’m lucky in that my version of it is of the remitting-relapsing variety and not the debillitating wasting variety so many others have. It’s more of an inconvenience than anything too serious but can be embarassing if I have one of my attacks while out in public. Everyone thinks one of three things; I’m having some sort of fit, I’m having a heart attack or I’m drunk. I don’t mind the last so much as they don’t gather around making all sorts of sympathetic and wanting to call an ambulance. If you have ever experienced the sensation of your foot falling asleep then you have an idea of the type of pain MS gives. It’s a numbness, often accompanied by tremors but it’s through your whole body. Any move to move you sets waves of pain loose and try as I might I can’t seem to ever convince anyone to leave me alone, at least long enough for the worst of the attack to pass. The residual pain after the attack is exquisite but I’ll be damned if I allow myself to become dependant on prescription pain killers. Drugs like Celebrex are about as effective as a screen door on a submarine but booze or a joint do help tremendously. Just wish I could have easier access to hash though. Since I can usually predict the onset of an attack I can normally get myself somewhere private and spare myelf the embarassment. Once the attack passes there is lots of residual pain and an overall weekness for several days but unlike the regular MS sufferers the effects are not as cumulative. Leave me alone, get me a drink or a joint and I can handle it. It’s not going to kill me and what the hell, we don’t get out of this life alive anyways.

          [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #3046778

          dawg,

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to but the whole

          she is lucky.
          the doctors say that I would have 50/50 for quadraplegia if they tried operating to fix mine.

          I have had my back go ‘pop’ just standing up from a chair.
          try calling a bank at 11 pm to tell them you won’t be in at 8:30 to work.. on welfare day.. which a teller average of 300,000+ for transactions. ( done in 175 amounts )
          It ain’t gonna happen… so 8 hours on my feet with a rib out of it’s socket.. eating painkillers like candy.
          ( my minimum dosage of over counter or off shelf painkillers is 1600mg every 4 hours. recommended daily max is 2400mg )

          right now, I can’t turn my head, trapezius muscles are that tense that it hurts to even move my hand to type.

          __________________________________________________

          Being pro-Linux and anti-MicroSoft is fine, but there may be a better time and place to wear your “I’d rather die than deal with MS” t-shirt than at a support group for people with multiple sclerosis.

        • #3046774

          Ignorance??

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to but the whole

          I wouldn’t call it ignorance, (unless we were ranting, then I’d call you a LIAR somehow 🙂 )

          delta-9-THC, cannabidiol (CBD), and cannabinol (CBN).

          THC (D-9)is the rushy high you get when you first smoke a joint. THC content has ben the focus of many growers, but CBD is USUALLY the preferred high.

          CBD is the mellow, relaxed feeling, people refer to it as burning out. Nice, calm, mellow, relaxed and NO PAIN!

          Medical marijuana is HIGH in CBD but low in THC, resulting in what is known as crappy weed. You don’t get the same initial ‘blast’ or head rush from it, you don’t get hyper and antsy, but it relaxes and calms you, reduces pain and inflammation.

          Common street weed will average 5-15% THC while CBD levels are usually .1 – 1.3% but can be as high as 13% in some strains, though not really making the high much different unless THC increases.

          CBN, really has no effect and is generally a low % of the smoke, again similar to CBD but with little efect.

          There are so many myths people believe abut marijuana and most o fthem are what stops support for such a harmles plant.

          Marijuana has fewer chemicals than many common legal products, so the health risk is actually quite low. It has almost NO traceable responsibility for causing cancer, is NOT a gateway drug, Alcohol is much more of a gateway to cocaine and herion use that Marijuana is.

          It’s just FUD, Fear Uncertainty and Doubt that stops us from legalizing it. People are unaware of just HOW harmless it really is, Alcohol and cigarrettes are FAR more detrimental to life, health and society than weed could ever be.

          People just don’t KNOW, don’t WANT to know and therefore form uneducated opinions based on mythology, instead of fact.

          That’s one thing Marc Emery DID do, he opened eyes and ears, he made MASSIVE changes to Canada’s understanding and public acceptance of a harmless yet illegal drug. He got High Times back on teh shelves, he got Hemp Stores on the map, he got marijuana books back into Canada, he changed public and political view, he got people who were once very candid about their usage to come out and speak publicly, politicians, mayors, ombudsmen etc.

          He has been supported bu our government, he has been promoted by our government, he has provided campaign funding for members of government, and they have all accepted and understood his goals and business without issue.

          For th eDEA to start throwing their weight around on a GLOBAL scale merely because THEY have a war on marijuana and want to make Emery an example, is just wrong. They run without congress, they run where they choose. They are a loose cannon, with too much time on their hands, a danger to society as we know it.

      • #3052527

        Intro to Economics

        by absolutely ·

        In reply to An example of the ‘rational’ thought process

        Addiction, in macroeconomics, defines a static demand (with the assumption that addicts are generated by the populace at nearly the rate they die). Static demand means that no matter how high the price, as long as the price is attainable, even if it requires pawning all one owns, the buyers will pay the required price. Any honest economist knows this. Attempting to prohibit, with the force of government, that kind of demand, can result in nothing other than “armed criminals” & “lethal booby-traps.” I just do not know how to explain this any more clearly. Physiological side effects of drugs do [b]not[/b] cause crime. Economic side effects of the impossible pipe dream of totally eliminating drugs, by force, cause drug-related crimes. Is it too simple to believe? Too straightforward to accept? Why are there still illegal substances? Would somebody who thinks that drug prohibition is a good, practical idea, please explain this to me? I am completely baffled.

        • #3046771

          and there is a fairly

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to Intro to Economics

          recent example of how it doesn’t work.
          it was called prohibition.

          making booze illegal didn’t stop it, so prohibition was repealed. how long do you think it will take before the current prohibition will be stopped and the items controlled through licensing?

    • #3052253

      “Emery, global war, & sovereignty”

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      While this webpage is an endless list of arguments, and offenses against the US machine, the last few paragraphs do make some interesting comments.

      But if you have the time, wade through the rest, it really doesn’t paint a great picture of the USA, but whilst it must be taken with a grain of salt, SOME will still find it fit to completely discount it as it is just so hard to believe that they MAY have been wrong or misled.

      http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4473.html

    • #3052242

      Excerpts from a LOOOONG interview.

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      Well too long for me to type out here, but here’s the bulk of it and a link for the full interview.

      After basic intrdoduction and explanation of what happened on the day of Emery’s arrest he is asked;

      [b][u]Interviewer:[/b][/u] What is your take on the DEA’s investigation, in THIS country that lead to you being arrested.

      [b][u]Emery;[/u][/b]

      “Well that’s a tradgedy that our policice have been co-opted, our politicians have been co-opted, by a goliath of a tyranny called the United States of America, under the Bush administration.
      Our country is in GREAT danger of surrendering it’s beautiful values of tolerance, of compassion, of reasonableness to a VERY unreasonable archipelago of goulag strung out across the United States. With a terrible dominator complex that cruelly imprisons tens of thousands of people for marijuana every year for terms of 5, 10, 15, 20 years; a friend of mine named Mike Smith in Oklahaoma was growing 200 plants and was sentenced to 30 years in jail last year. These are beyond the pale, this is no more legitimate than the people in the Republic of China getting imprisoned for life for practicing failing failing Gong (sp?), or people in countries of the world where they are put in jail for thier political point of view.

      I am the most recognized and well known advocate for the civilisation of our marijuana laws, in the world and am targeted specifically because of that. THe DEA has admitted that this is the purpose for this whole persecution.

      [b][u]Interviewer;[/b][/u] “But you must have known that there is an extradition treaty with the US as a mutual legal assitance and criminal matters act. and in addition, the DEA has been operating in Vancouver since 2002. Did you ever anticipate this might happen to you?”

      [b][u]Emery:[/u][/b] Well, it’s not so much that I anticipate the Americans would arrest me, I have cetainly always been willing to take my case before a Canadian court, for Canadian law. What cannot deter me however, is that my life, in the cosmic balance is not significant compared to the repression and suffering of millions of people, like me, around the world who rely on someone like me to provide hope, and the concept that one day we will be liberated from our bondage. And that this terrible pogram against us will end.

      So ultimately then I may have ot be sacrificed then, although I would like to think that Canadians will come to my aid and rally to our cause and realize that our whole value system of being Canadian is at stake here and it is the politicians, perhaps, and our courts may sacrifice those values to appease an EVIL, EVIL organization called the United States of America’s government.”

      [b][u]The interviewer asks;[/b][/u]
      “What do you say to those who say you are breaking Americans laws and really flouting them, therefore you brought this upon yourself?

      [b][u]Emery;[/b][/u]”I never thought of myself as breaking American laws CANDIDLY, I thought of myself as workin gwithin what was given to me task and approval, afterall, I gave $380,000 in personal income tax to the Canadian Revenuce Agency, which was split by teh Federal GOvernment of Canada and the British Columbia government, they KNEW it was for teh sale of marijuana seeds. It said on my income tax return, ‘this is for teh sale of marijuana seeds, I am giving you this money. They KNEW that, I had many meetings with income tax and they were happy to take this money, they wer ehappy to admit that I had sold marijuana seeds, and they had no objection to it.”

      It’s an 11 minute interview so I’ll leave off there, here’s a link if you wish to listen to it in it’s entirety.

      It certainly shows just how my MILD my dislike for the US government really is, when compared to a real Anti-US government voice and a VERY big voie for Canadians and millions of others around the world.

      Your government is the CAUSE of much unrest around the world. It’s not exactly the voice of reason or peace.

      Comments have included, [b]tyrannical, unreasonable achipelago of goulag, unreasonable and an EVIL, EVIL organization,[/b] later he says that the US administration is out to totally destroy us and our culture. There’s more if you care to listen to the 11min. audio interview. It closes with a comment from a local caller who echoes many similar views supporting his arrest as provided here.

      [audio src="http://pot.tv/archive/view2.cgi?number=3913&redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.timmeehan.ca%2Fcbc-20050805-aih-emery.mp3" /]

      So the issue as it sits now, IF it manages to get through Canadian courts in less than two years, he will then appeal the Supreme Court f Canada, known to be very accepting of such charges. IF he is then finally etcadited to the USA, he will also have several appeals he can make there too.

      • #3052199

        well, that certifies him as a nut

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Excerpts from a LOOOONG interview.

        When it was just your standing up for him, he was just another joe on the street standing up for what he believed in.

        Now we know this guy is a few oz short of a full bag.

        goulag, evil, tyrannical. Oh this guy has lost all traces of sanity and will probably end up in a padded room for his own good before he would end up behing bars.

        Sorry to rain on your parade, or not admire this lunitic rantings. I know you see him as some hero, but he is just nuts.

        • #3052195

          No…you don’t know.

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to well, that certifies him as a nut

          “I know you see him as some hero, but he is just nuts.”
          No, you don’t know, because I don’t see him as some sort of hero.

          He is an educated and politically aware/capable man. He is a very respected member of the community and is known across the country for his political ability. I believe he made the top 5 on a mayoral ballot and also debated in Ottawa with the Liberal and conservative opponents. HE has representaive of his party in all provinces and is by FAR a much smarter and HONORABLE man than the George Bush could ever hope to be. He is a man with a history of success and an ability to make money, GWB is a man of average intelligence amongst his peers, that has failed in his own business ventures and lost millions of other people’s money too.

          Emery has some valid complanits though as iterated on his website, which is also linked in the posts above.

          If HE is a nutbag to you (bacuase he calls it as e sees it), then you need to stop and think for a minute. PERHAPS there is sometruth nehind the hundreds of scandals and other allegations that have followed your government for decades, that are just quietly slipped into hiding.

          A great majority of the world’s population are nutbags based on your false premise. And I mean a GREAT deal, and that’s only because America has enough citizens to qualify as a fair minority against the rest of the world and only a percentage of Americans believe it. Getting to be a small percentage of world opinion now aren’t you? Even half of your own countrymen don’t buy it. http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4473.html

          You seem to be missing a major point that I have made so many times here, THIS IS HOW PEOPLE SEE THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT! Tyrannical, VERY unreasonable archipelago of goulag, with a terible cominator complex. Or as most say more simply, arrogant, stupid and bullish.

          Not just me, not just Marc, but MOST people.

          It is only the people (sorry Jessie, some people) in the USA that don’t see it. But you know what they say, love is blind, and don’t tell me you’ve never learned THAT lesson before.

          The US oversteps it’s boundaries and expects everyone to listen up as it feels fit. Too bad I suppose.

          But as expected, your comments were on his dislike for the US government and not the legal issues, did you even LISTEN to the full interview? You haven’t addressed any of the issue he raised, you haven’t addressed the idiocy behind arresting a seed salesman and not focusing on the organized criminals who use booby traps and guns to protect thier illegal enterprises. Marc Emery has a storefront, an email address and is happy to meet you, he’s not the criminal in hiding that you need to get instead. These organized criminals ar enot about to be shut down just because Emery Seeds is no more, his competitors have been warning about dealing with him, stating customers will be traced and prosecuted, while they in turn try to take over the industry for themselves. You can buy seed sfrom four other Canadian dealers that I know of, there are simply hundreds if no tthousands world wide, Emert is simply an example and a personal bone for some US nutbag to pick.

          IF this ever makes it to a US courtroom, which may never happen, US and Canadian relations will be demaged irrepairably and very quickly by the citizens of Canada as more than 70% are in favour of conservative drug laws and opposed to US drug laws as well as thier insistance on wasting OUR money to arrest people we don’t deem criminals.

          You also seemed to have missed the fact that he was ratted out by dealers in the USA looking for a lighter sentence, which is really a stab in the back because he also goes to bat for the freedoms of these people who face severe incarceration in the US.

          They then make out like he’s some massive entrepreneur making millions and sitting on a bundle. He has no home of his own, no car, no material possessions to speak of, he is really not interested in that crap. MOST of his money goes to helpingpeople get bail, providing lawyers and support networks for people who ARE facing ridiculous “unrealistic” charges in other countries, such as the USA.

          He fights for the little guy with HIS pocketbook. How un-American of him!

          He was not allowed to provide his own bail as it was to be made available by ‘surities’ from BC homeowners. Which were provided.

          One guy decided to crop his entire grow op a week early and sell it with ALL proceeds (aside form a few pertinent bills to be paid) are going to Emry’s legal defense. Again, something that would no thappen in the US.

          You see, whle we speak teh same language, we wera the same clothes and look very similar in most ways, Canadians are NOT Americans. We are not America’s little brothers, we are NOT America’s bed buddy.

          We are a completely indpendant country that simply shares a border. YOU government wasting OUR tax money is not very welcomed in Canada. Especially in such a waste of an issue as this.

          Agan to quote U.S. Attorney John McKay; “The grows that sprout from those seeds are often protected by armed criminals or rigged with lethal booby-traps. They do significant environmental damage, and fuel the organized crime and drug trade that destroys lives.”

          This MORON, (definitely a few JD’s short of a bag) is completely insane in makning such ridiculous comments, I wonder if he realized just how DUMB he sounded after he read his own comments.

          he’ scomplaining about seeds because of organizaed crime and people who protect thier crops with guns. Is he SO stupid that he doesn’t realize that anyone who boobytraps anything and uses a gun to protect it, legal or not, is a person worthy of time? It’ snot the playground, it’s the player.

          WHY don’t these same issues exist in Canada and occer on a regular basis if allowing marijuana would bring on such behaviour?
          How retarded is this person of authority in the USA? He’s completely clueless, not a HOPE.

          Typical American reaction though, if something is awry in the USA, it must be somebody else’s fault. There’s no way the US actually creates it’s own criminals with it’s ridiculos laws.

          The political motives behind US actions is not new, it’s been questioned since WWII, but it’s always swept under the rug and brushed off as lefty ranting or righty BS, instead of anyone actually realizing that they are the stem that flowers these problems and maybe, just maybe, thier trusted president is just another lair politician just as everyone else has to put up with.

          Don’t examine yourself, when you can simply pass the blame to others, it’s far easier, yet not very effective and people are just sick and tired of the USBS now.

          The loopholes for Marc that will probably see his extradition stopped by Canadian courts;
          http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4473.html

          A long way to go before he’s extradited.

        • #3052184

          here’s the link

          by house ·

          In reply to No…you don’t know.

          http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4473.html

          in case you didn’t see it the first three times 😉

          Thanks though Oz, that was a good read. I haven’t seen anything of interest since last weekend when this thread was started. TR definitely needs more of this stuff. I’ve had my fill of tech discussions for a while now.

        • #3050813

          House

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to here’s the link

          Well at least it’s real. Debating real issues on our own turf for once, instead of the two-way speculation of events in the Middle East.

        • #3052152

          “…..he made the top 5 on a mayoral ballot”

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to No…you don’t know.

          .
          Are we supposed to be impressed? What percentage of the vote did he get? My guess is no more than…..let’s guess…..three-tenths of one percent or less. So that would mean that three-tenths of one percent of BCs dope smoking voters didn’t forget to vote that day. Who cares? That’s about as insignificant as it gets.

          You say he’s an educated man? Where did he get his degree? From Cheech and Chong Bong University? Did he even graduate from High School? And you suggest that he’s “smarter than President Bush”, who graduated from Yale University and received an MBA from Harvard? Oh really?

          “I was always an anarchist in my classes, always bringing disorder to the teachers’ design of order. I really didn’t like my schooling…..I got midway through grade 12 and then quit school”
          – Marc Emery

          He’s “politically aware”, you say? And this is the guy who called for the abolition of the public school system? And called for banning all health-care for people over 70 — IN CANADA — saying they should just die!

          And you said, “he is known across the country for his political ability”. Only if you call getting arrested dozens of times “political ability”.

          And you said, “He is a man with a history of success.”

          “We had never made enough money to save any at Hemp BC…..We really worked hard to recover. Employees had pay cuts that went on for months, bills went way behind and our credit rating was trashed because we fell grievously behind on paying bills.”
          – Marc Emery

          “After two years of living in Asia in search of Shangra-La, I had built this house…..I spent all my savings, $30,000…..I then lost $30,000 dollars. This led to a series of escalating events which caused me to completely run out of money.”
          – Marc Emery

          You said he has, “an ability to make money”.

          But he can only make it by selling illegal stuff.

          “He is a very respected member of the community”, you say?

          “I spat on one of the (Canadian) police officers, but I don’t believe I assaulted him because there was no pain, no bleeding, no consequence.”
          – Marc Emery

          I wonder if that Canadian police officer respects him?

          “In a snit, a pout, I had come to the conclusion that Canadians weren’t worth saving and that my effort was wasted on them.”
          – Marc Emery

          Ooooookay.

          You said, “If HE (Marc Emery) is a nutbag to you (because he calls it as e sees it), then you need to stop and think for a minute.”

          “I have often seen the future, and it has come to pass every single time. I have also seen visions of a greater, more beautiful future, and of other dimensions…..But that’s not spiritual, I think it’s from the incredible capacity of our brains to absorb ideas beyond the linear? other dimensions, other worlds, other concepts. I like Terence Mckenna’s idea that aliens put mushrooms on the planet so we would have an easy means to communicate with other beings and other spirits out there, or other entities that exist in a more astral sense.”
          – Marc Emery (but he’s not a nutbag — yea, right.)

          You claim he’s not your hero, but you continue to sing his praises. Okay, whatever you say.

          By the way, while you denounce me for my “new title, same issue” harping on my individual liberty stance, that’s one area in which Marc Emery and I agree. That’s the basis behind his vision and life’s mission of legalizing marijuana. You have sure jumped on that bandwagon, but as for all the rest of it, you’ve criticized at every turn. We now know where your real priorities lie.

          “I advocate the position of liberty, the position of justice, the position of non-violent freedom for all people to do what they want, to put in their body what they want, and to act in a manner that is suitable to them without interference from others, especially their government.”
          – Marc Emery

          Gee, that could have been me who said that. The difference is that you support only Marc Emery’s primary focus of legalizing marijuana, while I apply the philosophy consistently. But you would criticize me for saying it. How about now?

          You claim he’s not your hero, but you continue to sing his praises. Okay, whatever you say.

        • #3051081

          Agreed

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to “…..he made the top 5 on a mayoral ballot”

          While I think you two should relax, and stop sniping at each other, and I think that animosity colours your perception of the issue, on the whole, it sounds like Marc Emery is a bit of a crazy man.

          Some of the things Max and others have pointed out that Marc has said to not point to someone who thinks carefully before he speaks. Either that or he likes to exagerate for effect.In either case it makes it hard to take him seriously.

          And like Max, I am for the “liberalization” of marijauna laws, have been for many years.

          James

        • #3051038

          liberalization of marijauna laws – and more comments

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Agreed

          .
          Absolutely they should be “liberalized”. However, where I part company with quite a few folks, or where they part with me, actually, is where I apply the same principle across-the-board. The government should protect one’s individual liberties, not infringe upon them — period. And I don’t care what the issue is.

          The government should not prevent a person from drinking or smoking dope. (This is where the disingenuous will suggest that I espouse abolishing the drinking age.)

          The government should not prevent a person from selecting a school for his/her kids. (And by taking “school taxes” from that person, but not allowing them to be spent at the school of the parents’ choice, may be preventing them from making that choice.)

          The government should not prevent a person from keeping all the fruits of his labor, especially when the forced distribution of money from the person who earned it is used to only give fruit salad to the recipient. (Nice play on words, don’t you think?)

          The government should not prevent a person from owning private property, free and clear, and not subject to confiscation if that person doesn’t pay the government a ransom, I mean a property tax, forever and ever.

          The government should not prevent a person from deciding for him or her self who, if anyone, is the recipient of, what amounts to charity, whether that be in the form of welfare, medical care, retirement pay, etc.

          At least I’m consistent, and my legalized drugs stance is based on something bigger than my desire (figuratively speaking, of course) to smoke marijuana. A person either believes in libertarian principles or not. These people who pick-and-choose the liberties that want for themselves and/or will allow others to enjoy are, in my opinion, about as unprincipled as they come, or they haven’t fully thought out the positions they espouse.

          And Marc Emery is an idiot. He’s actually hurting the libertarian cause by using it to advance his single-issue agenda.

          He’s a high school drop out, but people are calling him educated.

          He’s the scorn of most Canadians, an embarrassment to an entire nation, but some people call him respected — yea, maybe by a hand full of dope smoking customers of his.

          He received only one-fourth of one percent (.025) of the vote, but people are calling him some great civic-minded savior just because he got a couple thousand votes from his dope-smoking customers.

          He’s blatantly violating American drug laws, but cries foul when the American authorities want to stop him from doing it. And his supporters criticize the Americans for it. I suppose they would be just as “tolerant” of an American citizen who would run across the border into Canada, break Canadian laws, and then defiantly laugh in their faces about it. Yea, right.

          His supporters call him a successful businessman, but he’s probably never earned an honest dollar in his life. From what I’ve read, he’s “made his money” in defiance of Canadian laws, primarily selling illegal drugs and/or drug related items, and has been arrested dozens of times because it.

          The guy’s a joke — just like the people who support him.

          And the guy is being touted as some sort of folk-hero. I guess it shows the perspective some people actually have.

        • #3051026

          My take on this man as a hero

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to liberalization of marijauna laws – and more comments

          This is not someone I would want my kids looking up to as a role model. Would you? If not, ask yourself why and how you can support him anyways?

          If I became a dealer, I too could make a lot of money. If I got busted, I too could cry foul for the governments enforcing laws. I too could be a joke.

        • #3050817

          Exactly

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to liberalization of marijauna laws – and more comments

          ” I guess it shows the perspective some people actually have. ”

          In a ‘nut’shell.

          Yes, the government is wrong, and the people are right.

          People who support the government are wrong, and people who support people are right.

        • #3050816

          JD

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to liberalization of marijauna laws – and more comments

          Before you swallow Max’s words like a hungry slut, nobodyt has claimed Marc is seen as a hero except Maxwell.

          He is looked up to and supported because he supports people, and in Canada, people who support people are people who are supported.

        • #3052794

          Marc Emery is a hero to Oz

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to liberalization of marijauna laws – and more comments

          .
          Look up various definitions of hero. Then refer to the words Oz uses to describe Marc Emery.

          Conclusion – Marc Emery is a hero to Oz.

          He may not want to use the H word, but he sure is dropping the H-Bomb.

        • #3052737

          hero

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to liberalization of marijauna laws – and more comments

          [i]a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities
          one that shows great courage
          an object of extreme admiration and devotion
          [/]

          “He is looked up to and supported because he supports people, and in Canada, people who support people are people who are supported.”

          Sounds like everything you have said fits the definition of hero, even if you refuse to admit it.

          Personal attack aside, you still are going off on tangents that rarely address what I have posted.

          I know you don’t WANT him to be convicted. The FACT is that he broke a law, and this is not changed by the fact that there are other people doing the same thing. so much for making supported arguements.

          And the Candian government not prosocuting people for something is not the same as condoning something. The word is “tolerated”.

          Now if you care to respond again, address what I have posted, not just your full bullet points list or a response to someone else through me. I am not looking for an antagonistic relationship here. You make a point, I make a counter point. We both walk away wondering how the other can be so wrong. That is what discussions are about.

        • #3052732

          Drat and double drat!

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to liberalization of marijauna laws – and more comments

          I should have read Max’s post before relying.

          I wouldn’t have bothered doing the definitions thing had I seen this was mentioned.

          Oh well. Such is the life of a “slut” I guess……

        • #3052535

          JD

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to liberalization of marijauna laws – and more comments

          In this case. I MADE my point, you didn’t see it, therefore we are left walking away wondering what the hell the other guys was on about.

          Yes EMery committed a crime, I haven’t argued that. Yes Canada TOLERATES his behavior, i have not said it is condoned. You rlaws are ridiculous an dno person shoul dbe subject to facing them, whether American or Canadian.

          The REAL criminals were used as an ‘excuse’ to arrest Emery, THAT’s wrong. It has been said that this will help reduce organized crime and these people who protect thier ioperations with guns and booby traps. YOU are much smarter than to believe such crap. They are simply going after th ewrong guy to make a point.

          As I said to Max, this reminds me of the Autralian lady who was arrested for drug smuggling and was sitting in jail within minutes of her arrest, it was a ridiculous sentence to face in a foreign counrty, whether she had actually done it or not (which is really irrelevant to this example).

          If yuo had penalties even remotely close to being acceptable, fines, even a few years in jail it would not be a big deal.

          When MY tax dollars are WASTED on something to help another country do nothing but prove a point, that bothers me. Nobbody is any safer with him off the streets, and that’s the qualifying factor in my mind. There was no plausible reason for it iother than a law had been broken, a law that most people don’t care about, a law where nobody is placed at risk or harmed in any way. It’s not even as bad as petty shoplifting, a shoplifter steals property from someone. Someone may even by physically harmed!

        • #3050818

          Nice work

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to “…..he made the top 5 on a mayoral ballot”

          I have read some of those comments befoer, in full context, they lose a lot when taken out of context though,as always.

          Emery is not oin the same plane as you. when he rejects governmenr interference, he is referrin gto exactly what you t interference, as I do also, we are talking on different plans than yourself. You see the government as a system to be admired, but they take you rmoney from you and help others.

          Marc Emery sees the US government as a tyranical, overbearing and ridiculous system that represses the masses and sticks its nose where it dowsn’t belong, he DESPISES George W Bush and his cronies, HATES his world policies and thinks he is misleading and toturing Americans and anyone else around the world that he sees fit, did you READ his comments on the US government? HE has slammed teh US government for MANY years of torure, illegal actions in other countries etc. He thinks the US government should be abolished completely.

          And yet you claim you share opinions? He’d shoot Bush point blank in a heart beat, you would run up and cuddle him or bow at his feet.

          Do I think Emery’s a hero, no of course not. My hero is, quite honestly, my mother, and that’s as far as MY heros go.

          I support Emery for his stand and his determination to relax laws that are not wanted.

          As for his education, intelligence comes from many places, formal education is not a way to measure intelligence at all, it’s a way of showing learned skill. Actions speak louder than words, Emery has made a positive difference for the people, Bush has made a negative difference for the people by dragging thier country’s name through the mud, but he HAS made a positive difference for himself and companies like Haliburton.

          Emery is ADMIRED, spitting on a cop does not make one unpopular n a place where cops do not have a good reputation, I thought it was the VPD not RCMP though.

          When our premier slapped a guy in the face, this made him a Canadian hero, we support those who support thier views and don’t expect false PC action all the time, it’s not real.

          As for success, he has been quite successful, has a knack for business and making money, he lost money, Bush lost MILLOINS and failed large companies, he has no record of business success, legal (not neccessarily ethical but legal)business that is.

          So don’t even try, you are wasting your time. You will just continue to offer snippets of quoted material, often taken out of context completely, that will only support your claims, as always.

          If I thought you would even consider a fair or unbiased opinion, I would be interested in hearing from you. Your spinning is just precious though.

        • #3052801

          Clueless in Vancouver

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Nice work

          .
          Playing the “out of context” card again. That’s a typical ploy whenever you’re faced with a truth you don’t want to face.

          The source so everyone can see NOTHING was taken out of context.

          http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/1423.html

          And I could have predicted your, “…formal education is not a way to measure intelligence…” nonsense. You were the one who claimed he was “educated”, and we all know what it means. And in this case, it means a high school drop out who has been stoned since he was 21. And he’s not “educated”. He’s an absolute fool.

          Just like you proudly proclaimed he came in FIFTH in a mayoral race. FIFTH – WHAT A JOKE. He received .025 percent of the pot-smoking vote.

          You just don’t like eating your own words, do you? But keep singing his praises. It let’s everybody see your true perspective, and it’s kinda’ “foggy”. Now there are TWO Canadian embarrassments that we all know about.

          And you know, and your total preoccupation with Bush should be cause to worry. You can’t ever stop talking about him. Do you dream about him, too? You’re obsessed, dude, obsessed. Perhaps it has something to do with that LSD you took.

          (But you admire Marc Emery. Oooookay.)

        • #3052517

          WHo did Emery kill?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Clueless in Vancouver

          Emery’s actions have caused the death of……..

          Emery’s actions have disrupted the lives of……

          GWB is responsible for thousands of US and Iraqi deaths, directly. He sent them to war.

          GWB is responsible for disrupting th elives of MILLIONS around teh world.

          Now if he had screwed over Americans or the US government, it’s not my problem, when he takes his cause to a world stage, it is my concern.

        • #3052516

          Double post, NT

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Clueless in Vancouver

          NT

        • #3052796

          Admired only by pot smokers

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Nice work

          .
          I wonder if the 70+ crowd “admires” him. They’re the ones who should receive NO health care and just die, at least according to Emery.

          And he even has other pot-platform people apologizing for him.

          http://www.mapinc.org/newscc/v05/n619/a10.html?397

          And letter writers against him:

          http://www.langleyadvance.com/issues05/044205/opinion/044205le1.html

          Maybe they admire the way he eats mushrooms and talks to beings from another dimension? (Gee, I’m sure glad I’m not that “educated”.)

          Emery is a national joke and a national embarrassment. Except to Oz, of course.

        • #3052514

          Yet Bush is a hero?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Admired only by pot smokers

          Get a life and think again.

        • #3052786

          Help is on the way

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Nice work

          .
          Talk about taking things out of context, George W Bush has nothing to do with this deal; and no one even mentioned him — except you, over and over and over and over and over and over…….

          You’re obsessed with the guy. Your every thought must include him, at least if your messages are true indicators of your thoughts.

          Get over it, dude. Get help.

          It’s called “Obsessive Compulsive Disorder”. But help is available.

          The Obsessive Compulsive Anonymous (OCA) fellowship offers hope to people who have felt the fury and crippling power of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD). While new and effective medical and psychological treatments have helped those with this disease, the Twelve Step program of OCA has proven to be an important part of continuing recovery from OCD. Members share their firsthand struggles and recoveries from OCD, giving one another a sense of identification and the certain knowledge that they are no longer alone.This invaluable resource includes a definition of obsessive compulsive disorder; what those in OCA have discovered through participation in the fellowship; an outline of the Twelve Step OCA recovery program; personal stories of recovery…….

          You’re welcome.

        • #3052512

          OCD

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Help is on the way

          Well I believe I hadn’t brought up Bush until you decided to compare Bush’s intelligence, or else I did as an example of your suggestion that Emery is my hero, and therefore KNOWING that Bush is your hero it was an obvious comparisson. How many people’s death has GWB been responsible for THIS year, lets make that THIS WEEK? Don’t say none, we all know GWB started the war, willingly and unjustly.

          And yet you support his lunacy, no matter how wrong, unwanted and uncalled for it is.

          Whatever Max, why do you even bother posting?

        • #3051085

          Dishonest or out of touch with reality

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to No…you don’t know.

          for anyone to claim that there are goulags in the US. For people who either have no clue as to history, or no concept of reality when they make a comparison like that.

          A smart guy like you and you don’t think that is just a little on the fringe to make a claim like that?

          And if the WORLD thinks the US has goulags, then I have been giving them WAY too much credit as for being informed and general intelligence.

          It is not a matter of examming myself to know if we have goulags in the US because I know that we don’t.

          Now as for the war on drugs, yes it has been a huge waste of time/money/lives. I have not argued that.

          Do I think there is merit in trying to split hairs on if seeds that grow into a plant are a part of a plant? Smoke in the wind, and if I plant a seed for a plant I KNOW what I will get. If it is illegal, then don’t do it or don’t get caught.

          If there is any merit to the charges, then he will end up in the US courts. If there isn’t any then he will never get extradited. Any other claims are just so much rantings, unless you are going to tell me that the Canadian Government would extradite according to an agreement without following the terms for extradition?

          Loopholes? That is his defense? There are only so many cracks you can slip through, before they get patched.

          NOTE: this wasn’t the DA from Michigan that brought the country of Canada to its knees, it was from Seattle. Or at least that is the way you are presenting this.

          If he wins this will go a long ways towards furthering his adgenda. If he loses he will pay the price of fighting a system he doesn’t believe in. Justifying him selling into the US because there are others that will also sell is lame and you know it. Justifying because of ansterdam is lame because they don’t have the same extradition, do they? And it is LEGAL there. It isn’t legal here or in Canada. (Or England?)

          Don’t throw me into the same group of anti’s so causually. My arguemnets have always been, if there is a law, you follow it or pay the price if you CHOOSE to break that law. If you have laws that you don’t enforce, you undermine ALL laws. Don’t like a law, change that law.

          As for Marc (and people know what I think of that name ;\ ) I didn’t make any personal comments on this person that I knew only from your postings until you posted quotes of his showing he is a nutcase. Only a nutcase would think there are goulags in the US.

          It isn’t for the DA’s to CHOOSE which laws to enforce. It is for Congress to WRITE laws. The DA’s HAVE to enforce the laws until they are changed or repealed. You know how government works.

          Tell us again, how this is all Bush’s fault? After you learn MORE about the US, you will learn that the President doesn’t make the rules, it is Congress. The President has a lot less to do with the running of the country than Congress does. Want someone to blame? Go to where the power is and HAS been. War on drugs? That is where to fight it. Bush will be gone in two years, but the same Congress will carry on, business as usuall.

        • #3050814

          Justifications

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Dishonest or out of touch with reality

          No I am not justifying it because others do it. I am not JUSTIFYING it at all. I am just wondering how the DEA and Seattle police actually get off claiming that it is to help stop teh organizd crime and people protecting grow ops with guns and biiby traps due to his selling them seeds. They can get them anywherem they will STILL continue a life of crime, perhaps earning a little less money or becoming more desperate in the process, thus killing and harming more people.

          This isn’t a resolution to ANYTHING, nobody is saved, helped or protected by closing down Emery Seeds and throwing Emery in jail. NOBODY.
          It’s a personal bone to pick and anyone who doesn’t see it that clearly is as bind as US authorities, it’s a poltical pissing contest, a flex of the muscles and all the other things Canadians dislike, such as an expense on our tax dollars for YOUR benefit, a slap in Canada’s face and a cheap pot-shot with no purpose.

          I NEVER said this was Bush’s fault, so I can’t tell you again. WHo gives a flying f*** at a rolling donut what US congress thinks? I’m Canadian, US congress SHOULD not effect me or any other Canadian for that matter.

          As for Extradition, there’s a long way to go yet, he has to be found worthy of extradition by two courts in Canada still, that actually accept his practice, for the most part, make money from it, and also support the conservative marijuana laws established in Canada.

          He has political reasons for not being found guilty by the courts here, it is his FAITH and they cannot fnd him guilty of a crime based on his faith or political preference/voice. He is a demonstrator and public voice/advocate, his political basis for his crime is clear, his FAITH in his belief is clear, they will have a rough time finding him guilty when he is actually protected due to these issues.

        • #3052795

          That doesn’t address my point though

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Justifications

          I stated clearly [i]”Dishonest or out of touch with reality for anyone to claim that there are goulags in the US. For people who either have no clue as to history, or no concept of reality when they make a comparison like that.”[/i]

          I didn’t say if he will get off. I said he is a nutter, no if, ands or buts.

          So what is it, is he a lier or a nutcase? Or both? Or are you going to say he is right?

        • #3053142

          Well

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to That doesn’t address my point though

          One can assume that it was his chosen figure of speech, an example, an extreme perhaps, but it echo’s his feelings well doesn’t it? It got your goat, I suppose his comments hit home, just as they were intended.

          We’ll call it an Emeryism? LOL 😀

          Never seen that done before, noooooooooo.
          But to put it into perspective, andnot in reference to Russian prison camps specifically.

          Another definition for Gulag is;
          “A place or situation of great suffering and hardship, likened to the atmosphere in a prison system or a forced labor camp.”

          He does see the US government as imposing great suffering upon it’s own people and the rest of the world. Guess what? So do many Canadians, Americans, British, Spanish, German, Fench, Swiss, Asutralian and many others around the world.

          The world is nuts? Or are you just starting to gain perspective on how the world really views America’s government?

        • #3053042

          No goat here

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to That doesn’t address my point though

          It did not “get my goat”. What it DID do was show me this person is either dishonest or is out of touch with reality, thus someone to be dismissed.

          When you lie or intentionally distort the truth, anything you say or do has no crediblity.

          If your out of touch with reality, again, no crediblity.

          [b]So all he accomplished with his RANTINGS, was to have rational people like myself DISMISS him and everything he says from that point on.[/b]

          I have not argued with you on many of the points, and have actually agreed with many. You just seemed to take any disagreement as total disagreement.

          If someone “sees” something a certain way, but is still wrong then you HAVE to question [b]why [/b]he is wrong.

          Now are we on the same page with why he IS a nutcase? I don’t believe for a second that the entire world hates America, nor believes half the crap that Emery was saying. Why are some many people coming to the US every year if they really think it is such an evil, vial place? To better their lives by going to an evil place? Then what does that say about the shape of the rest of the world?

          Hey, I live here. It can’t be ALL that bad!

          Beyond that, I believe in rule of law. You can not have a civilized society without laws to regulate behaviour to a point or it will go back to the wild west. Times DO change, and the laws should be changed to match the times. If you don’t like a law, you change it, not break it. That was my ONLY other point.

          You can’t let people pick and chose which laws they will follow and which they won’t.

        • #3052942

          jdclyde: “You can’t let people pick and choose”

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to That doesn’t address my point though

          “…which laws they will follow and which they won’t.”

          I believe it’s much more important to prohibit people elected to government from picking and choosing which parts of the Constitution they will respect and which they won’t.

        • #3052923

          Chick and the egg

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to That doesn’t address my point though

          Watching for who will vote which way is a little late in the game for me as far as new laws go. I missed out on the whole “free love” daze of the hippie days. The laws were already on the books for me.

          Fact, there are already way too many laws that limit OUR behaviour and they seem to think we need more? Stop writting laws and do NOTHING congress. Stop trying to legislate everyones well being and let us live as we may depending on what we make of things.

          Right now there are lots of things between Congress and the courts that is hitting the fan and it is all BS. The courts don’t write law, and need to be reigned in, HARD! Congress needs to stop using the “comerse” clause to do anything that they want.

          As for the Constitution, it is a disgrace the way people want to change the meaning as fits them, but think it is wrong to make REAL changes as the world changes. The intention of the Constitution does not change from year to year. If something doesn’t fit, then AMMEND it, not bastardize it.

          AB, where would you recommend I go to find such a candidate that will faithfully follow the Constitution and keep government in it’s place?

        • #3052870

          That’s fair JD.

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to That doesn’t address my point though

          But what I think you don’t see is: “I don’t believe for a second that the entire world hates America, nor believes half the crap that Emery was saying. Why are some many people coming to the US every year if they really think it is such an evil, vial place?”

          Many people are comign to teh US, Canada, ENgland and many other countries too. Some for work, America has big companies with lots of opportunity.

          Many on Vacation, people want to see what it’s all about.

          Many actually DO like America.

          But anywhere I’ve been around teh world, you mention the USA and teh eyes roll. Everyone’s got soem story about America’s government, dealing with American businesses, understanding American people etc. Each and every one of them is happy to NOT be in America. These are mainly people who aer exposed to America, they do business with Americans or have spent time there etc.

          I find anyone with exposure, has damn good (and odften identical) reasons for not likin gAmerica. Most laugh (then shudder) at the though of livign there.

          I spend lots of time stateside, doesn’t mean I love America though.

          ON that same note though, I have NEVER met someone ANYWHERE that didn’t say Canada was one of the best places they have evert been, how they loved the people and the country was beautiful. Most say they want to move here, if not visit longer next time.

          You have 52 states and 300 Million people, there aer a lot of reasons for people to enter the US while still not thinking it is the best place to be. People are often FORCED to conduct business there, many go there for cheaper cost of living, lower taxation etc.

          But again, I have not met a single person in decades that thinks America is a good place to live. Most say, hey it’s okay but SO screwed up, they do ‘this and that’….etc. People don’t think you have fair employers, a fair government, a fair educational system and those from more socialism focused countries think teh medical system there is a farce too.

          I suppose it’s what you grow up with, but those who grow up outside of America rarely would choose it as a place to live. Unless of course from repressive or communist countries where they have NO freedoms.

        • #3052834

          52, Oz?

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to That doesn’t address my point though

          That would be a full deck, we are two short so far. But once we grant Puerto Rico and Canada statehood, we’ll be there!

          jdclyde: http://www.lp.org

        • #3048392

          That’s the joke

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to That doesn’t address my point though

          Ask a Canadian how many states are in the US, 52, including Canada. 🙂

          But Alaska should be a Canadian territory. You can have Mexico.

        • #3049150

          Oh the poor people

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to That doesn’t address my point though

          FORCED to come to the US to make a living.

          Yes, I KNOW lots of people go to Canada and England for many of the same reasons they come to the US. I did not mean to imply that we are the only haven that people flock to in order to IMPROVE their lives.

          Plain and simple, life it too short to live somewhere you hate. Life is too short to work somewhere you hate.

          People come here for the MANY freedoms they don’t get elsewhere, and then use that freedom to complain about how things are run here? In many of the countries they come from they would not have that same luxury of openly complaining about how the courty is run. But we don’t ever hear THAT part of the arguement.

          People don’t HAVE to live in the US, they CHOOSE to live in the US. Canada I am sure would be happy to take anyone not happy here, right? (not making snide comment, just observing the very open nature of Canada.)

          If they can’t make a living somewhere else, then maybe the US isn’t so bad after all because it allows you to succeed where MANY other countries don’t!

          Same for you. You CHOOSE to do business in the states. You could CHOOSE not to, but that isn’t in YOUR ecconomic best interests is it? So your money is more important than your principles against the US?

          You can find people that hate or dislike something about someone else anywhere you go. Can’t please everyone.

          Again, the very negative anti-us reporting DOES have a big impact on how we are seen. Too bad the news doesn’t talk about the good as well as the bad. Because yes, just like ALL courties, we do have bad to report. (Canada is not an acception) Really is sad, because there is more TO like here than there is to dislike.

    • #3052785

      How many Canadians out there actually ADMIRE Marc Emery?

      by maxwell edison ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      .
      There are a lot of Canadians who post messages in these threads, but only one, that I can see, has admitted to ADMIRING Marc Emery. And he claims that people all across Canada ADMIRE the guy.

      How many other Canadians out there actually admire Marc Emery?

      And as a point of reference, include other people you ADMIRE so we can truly measure the level of admiration this guy receives. What kind of pedestal do you put the guy on? And with whom does he share that pedestal?

      It would also be interesting to see some links to articles from other Canadians who “admire” the guy — but ones without the little marijuana leaf up in the corner, or ones that don’t reference such “sources”. Does anyone have such a link?

      Come on all you Canadians out there – speak up and support the guy you ADMIRE.

      • #3052505

        I don’t care if Canadians ADMIRE him.

        by absolutely ·

        In reply to How many Canadians out there actually ADMIRE Marc Emery?

        I think they’re right to characterize his crime as far below the traditional standards for requesting extradition. It isn’t how things are normally done, and the place of marijuana in the war on drugs is insufficient to justify such an exception to the norm of international relations.

        Maxwell, I agree that this is a silly issue for civil disobedience, and one in which such a strategy is counterproductive. Maybe the deactivated regions of the pot smokers’ brains are responsible for their diminished capacity for reason. Whatever the case, they’re not winning people over by exhibiting the most anarchistic behavior associated with intoxication.

        Nevertheless, the DEA exceeds the federal government’s role as described in the Constitution, and since that is the supreme law of the land, that is the bottom line in any issue in which the Constitution applies, meaning any issue of US law.

      • #3053147

        Get up off the ground

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to How many Canadians out there actually ADMIRE Marc Emery?

        You are scraping the gutter again. You always say you don’t know why you bother posting but then continue to do so.

        There are many people who admire him, this doesn’t mean that they have posters of him on thier wall, pictures in thier wallets and a chair at the dinner table for him.

        Admiration dowsn’t mean that someone is more important to you than anyone else. People generally admire anyone who goes to bat for the minority. The fact that 70% of Canadians are in support of his cause, it is only logical to say that many admire him.

        As for who? Well it shows in the thousands that attend his hemp festivals around Canada. The people who shop at his stores, the people who offered $10,000 each of thier own money to bail him out of jail.

        There are hemp fests in the US too, very large ones with many supporters.

        Now you illogically group these people into the types of people who have pot leaves on thier websites. But those people also include politicians, judges, lawyers,doctors, bankers, and many other very successful people.

        Take off the headband and the rose coloured glasses and see a following of many citizens from many woks of life, they aren’t all losers and stoners.

        I suppose one could say Timothy Leary was a nutcase too, based on that limited vision.

        • #3053045

          The difference between Timothy Leary and Marc Emery

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Get up off the ground

          .
          There are some very important and distinct difference between Timothy Leary and Marc Emery.

          Timothy Leary was.

          Marc Emery is.

          Timothy Leary was a smart, highly-educated nutcase.

          Marc Emery is a stupid, under-educated nutcase.

          Timothy Leary was the “Legend of a Mind”.

          Marc Emery is only a legend in his own mind.

          Timothy Leary had a song (see above) about him written and performed by the Moody Blues.

          Marc Emery will just be singing the blues with moody inmates performing the “unwritten”.

          There ya’ go — very distinct differences.

        • #3052862

          You know

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to The difference between Timothy Leary and Marc Emery

          YOu often claim to be highly educated,. you place your own intelligence far above others around you, something I have just learned to ignroe for the most part, whatever floats your boat and all.

          But to think you have a better grasp of politics and law than someone like Emery is a complete joke.

          I know you haven’t DIRECTLY compared his intelligence to your own, but you have certainly claimed that he is stupid basedon YOUR conclusions, thus you feel that you know better than hom and are able to judge his knowledge and ability.

          This guy has accompliched more than you as far as focused success is concerned. He is a politician, activis tyand store owner and has shown his success in all areas.

          He definitely knows more about US and Canadian politics and political history than you do.

          He has definietly shown success in his business ventures with his stores, doesn’t matter how many times he gets shut down if he manages to open for buseinss soon after, if not the next day.

          He has definitely gained mreo financial success than yourself, he’s made millions, CHOSE to spend it in other ways than padding his bank account, but he DOES rake it in, no matter how he spends it.

          And yet, you have a longer formal education, claim to know US politics very well, and have not made millions, still work for someone else, and dream of achieving our own personal successes still. As do most of us.

          So for YOU to claim HE is a failed moron is a joke. You could only hope to reach such a level of ‘failure’.

        • #3048369

          You are the biggest joke around

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to You know

          .
          You have no idea what you are talking about. You are a total idiot. Even your fellow Canadians are keeping their distance from you on this one.

          GET A CLUE, IDIOT!

          This thread has turned into the funniest ever — and the joke is on YOU!

          Do yourself a favor and just quit talking. You look more moronic with every word you spout.

        • #3048366

          THAT WAS A JOKE – IDIOT!

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to You know

          .
          (But like any good joke, it has an element of truth.)

          What a fool you are.

        • #3048358

          No it’s not a joke actually

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to THAT WAS A JOKE – IDIOT!

          You form your opinions of a man and abuse of an agreement, for someone else’s personal gratification, based on a few internet articles and comments.

          You had most likely never even heard of Emery before this thread and yet you feel qualified to pass judgement on how he is viewed by the people and even how MANY people aupport him?

          (and don’t even THINK of saying the same goes for my opinion of Bush, because we have all seen his actions and comments smeared under our noses for years)

          Anyone who disagrees with Emery’s arrest is a nutcase in your mind, you LOVE to categorize and group people, it makes then easier to sort out I suppose. Instead of understanding individuals you just have to lump them together, just as you lump together all of your political and world views into a convenient handful of core values.

          It’s like talking to a caveman, you know two or three ways of dealing with everthing that you have to make a decision on.

          Anyway, I gotta get some work done for once, have a good one.

      • #3053143

        To respond to your out of context comments

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to How many Canadians out there actually ADMIRE Marc Emery?

        Regarding your earlier comments about his proposing removal of senior medical support from TAX revenue.

        He is FAR more toward YOUR way of thinking on these issues. He is very much like yourself in his right leaning opinion. He is also cofounder of The Freedom Party, while it rejects the term “libertarian” for philosophical reasons, it is generally considered to be a party of the libertarian right.

        SO here’s what he actually explains wit hrespect to those comments:

        “We spend far too much of our taxpayers’ money on a rapidly growing population of old people. We’re spending lots of money keeping _ many many millions of old people _ alive when it would be much more honourable to let them die in a dignified way”.

        He claims that those over seventy should be responsible for their own health care, and should not rely on the state for funding. [b]Emery has also noted that many senior citizens are being kept alive against their wishes, citing his own father as an example.”[/b]

        So his REASONS for his comments, that you conveniently omitted for effect, cast a different shade on his reasoning and wishes behind it. Again, he is only working toward personal freedoms, if citizens were to pay for private insurance (which is actualy affordable as a senior)then they would be able to determine when they choose to finally pass. He believes that seniors should be allowed to choose thier time, and shouldn’t be kept alive unneccesarilt and against thier will due to government imposed regulations and control of health care.

        As for public schools. He is in favour of private tutoring as an alternative to government run and regulated (often limiting ability or materials)and be replaced with a deregulated system. If private schools were more comon, they would also be far mroe competetive, less selective and much more affordable than now.

        Such schools would permit a parent to see the education of choice, and not be forced to send thier children to public school and get an average education.

        Links? Sorry, you’d have to attend and hear him out with your own ears I guess. But I can say you’d probably find most of his views coincide with your own if not exactly, it would be well within your acceptable level of views.

        But here’s another link to explain a BIT his achievements a bit better anyway. (BC residents will always support a Canucks fan!)
        http://www.answers.com/topic/marc-emery

        • #3052922

          Read it again

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to To respond to your out of context comments

          The wikipedia article says he is in favour of the ABOLITION of public education. Thats not in favour of choice, which of course, any parent has today.

          In terms of seniors being kept alive against their own wishes – in that respect we are no different than the US. No one must get treatment against their expressed wishes. If the person is incompetent, a living will is acceptable.

          In terms of health coverage for seniors, again I would disagree. Whether its through insurance premiums or payroll taxes(varies from province to province), these seniors have paid into a system for years when they had fewer claims and if now they have greater claims than average, they should be covered. You don’t change the rules in the middle of the game.

          I am not impressed with simply running for office and consistently finishing well out of the running. There are marxist-leninist candidates and many other fringe parties that field candidates with no hope of winning. Heck there is a panhandler in Toronto who has run 3 times and came in 5th.

          James

        • #3052858

          Choice

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Read it again

          Many p0arent DON’T have choice, that’s the problem. They can either pay immense sums to send thier children for a private education or simply stick them in public school. I never said he wanted CHOICE for schools.

          Removing public schools, will inctrease the number of provate schools by great proportions, when there is more competition for students, there wqill be lower prices and people WILL be able to afford a mroe personal, private education fo rthier children, instead of the rich gettign smarter and the poor being kept dumb and poor by the governments substandard educational system.

          AS for not changing the rules in the middle of the game, that would stop the system from EVER being improved or changed, because SOMEONE wil always lose, whether it is you moother today or you tomorrow. It has to happen sometime and yes people will be effected by it, but the long term gain will be seen in the future, as with ANY brweak teh government hands out. What about wehen Social Security disappears, all the people who paid into it for 50+ years will lose, but the next generation wins, and that’s what we are supposed to be focused on, creating a better world for future generations, not having it best for US.

          As for running and losing, he has actually gained a lot of support in his poorly finded campaigns, it’s not because he thinks he will become mayor, or P.M,. it’s to have his voice made public, and he succeeds everytime in creating interest and new followings in his patry.

          HIS BIGGEST mistake, is not legalizing weed, it’s taking the right wing stance, that doesn’t go well in Canada. I actually think he’ dfind greater support in the US these days.

        • #3048371

          Do you realize how STUPID you are sounding?

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Choice

          .
          You agree; you disagree. You are trying to support the unsupportable and justify the unjustifiable — all at the same time. You have no idea what you are supporting. you are contradicting yourself, and even agreeing with me, but now you won’t, I’m sure.

          On one hand you just said (ignoring the numerous sic-sic-sic), “Removing public schools, will inctrease the number of provate schools by great proportions, when there is more competition for students, there wqill be lower prices and people WILL be able to afford a mroe personal, private education fo rthier children, instead of the rich gettign smarter and the poor being kept dumb and poor by the governments substandard educational system.”

          You just said that as though you support it and agree with it. (Now is when you will say that I either took it out of context or can’t comprehend. HA! HA! WHAT A JOKE)

          You then said, “HIS BIGGEST mistake, is not legalizing weed, it’s taking the right wing stance, that doesn’t go well in Canada.”

          BUT YOU JUST TOOK THE RIGHT WING STANCE!

          What a total idiot you are. You are back-peddling, contradicting yourself, and looking like you have no idea what you are talking about. Come to think of it, you are representing yourself quite accurately.

          What a friggin’ joke.

          Give it up.

        • #3048362

          Read it again

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Do you realize how STUPID you are sounding?

          Yes the typos were nasty on that one.

          I am saying he is farther right than people think, most that aren’t familiar with him think he’s a hippie tree hugger, ‘smoke pot and hug a tree’. But that’s not really his stand at all. He does want to see freedoms and legalization was one issue he is noticed for. One problem though is that Canadians are also rather letf leaning, especially on some of the veiws you pointed out.

          I didn’t say I support all of his ideals, but I do support the whole presmise of legalization and recognize him for his efforts.

          I still oppose his arrest requested by the US DEA, but can’t really blame Canada’s government because it is bound by an agreement, yet this is just abuse of that law in my eyes.

          I still stand behind my comments that I think Emery is a bright and very successful man, is very educated in his field and, even though he’s a little bit radical about it, he has helped many people who are facing life sentences for miniscule crimes of very minor posession. He has raised awareness and brought out the voice of the people. The government is aware of our wishes, the goverment is at least responding (though not as it is wanted to) because of Marc Emery. Many people would never have raised a voice and be heard before, now they do.

          Since he started on the Vancouver scene, he went from a noname to a person everyone has at least HEARD of and knows what he does sorta. For the most part people support him too.

          Just as you don’t support every Republican view, but you still like Bush for what he DOES do, I can support Marc Emery, and even more importantly, object to his arrest in Vancouver (as I would pretty much anyone who did the same).

          I still don’t support him as P.M. (not that I could anyway) but you will vote for Bush as president based on a few values you feel are most important, and that’s okay?

          I said that I admired what he’d done, and that a great deal of Canadians support his cause too. I said I disagreed with the arrest for reasons other than who it was, you ran with it and decided to turn it into a love affair with Marc Emery.

          If you don’t know by now that I view isssues one by one, as I am free to do as a resident here, and judge each and every case based on my own values or even feelings of right and wrong, then you are the mental one here, Max.

          Theworld can’t be written in a book, this one has been taken way to literally by US officials and is
          merely an example of US power in Canada, inhopes of slowing the influx of marijuana. Whereas you tac money should be spent taking down insead of Iraqi’s, ‘your’ criminals and killers not ours. We don’t have the same issues here so it’s not Marc Emery’s fault you have problems. Why are ‘we’ footing the bill for ‘you’ to make a point?

          You know exactly what I meant and you just decided to be a knob as always.

    • #3052530

      How do I explain it??

      by maxwell edison ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      .
      By the way, I won’t bother posting your questions and such, but this is in reply to a message in a maxed out thread.

      In all seriousness, and with all flaming aside.

      I’m on the record as being opposed to America’s war on drugs, but for a variety of reasons. I’m also on the record as being in favor of legalizing marijuana use and its regulated sale, but for the broader issue, not the narrowly focused one of just wanting to smoke some wacky. (William F. Buckley, by the way, is also in agreement with me.)

      Having said that, I also believe that only an idiot would openly, blatantly and defiantly ignore the drug laws of the USA. Like them or not, agree with them or not, they are what they are. I dislike our tax laws about as much as the idiot Emery (and others) dislikes our drug laws. But if I stand on principle, so to speak, and refuse to pay my taxes, spout off about it at every opportunity, and publicly defy them and the authorities, I’ll go to jail. And in the case of taxes, just like in the case of marijuana, I would be hurting my own case — and my own cause — by practicing such stupidity.

      Change can be implemented, to be sure. But the methods used in such attempts should be carefully measured. There’s a time for some calculated civil disobedience, such as Martin Luther King’s and Rosa Parks’ defiance of unjust laws of the 1960s, and then there’s a time for measures of a different sort. And there are times when practicing civil disobedience is actually hurting your own cause, because you won’t have a huge groundswell of public support on your side. The former just won’t work without the latter. Emery is an idiot because he doesn’t see the distinction. And regardless of what you might claim, he does not have such a groundswell of public support, not in Canada, and especially not in the United States.

      Moreover, he’s a Canadian who’s practicing his civil disobedience on another nation’s turf. And the guy’s a total moron for not understanding that. That makes him unworthy of any sympathy from me. In fact, it makes him not only an idiot, but it makes him a flaming idiotic criminal. If I use my still to make and sell moonshine to my neighbors, it’s one thing. But when I start shipping the stuff to Canada, and do it openly and defiantly of their laws, those guys would have every right to request that I be sent there to suffer the consequences. And according to the treaty between the USA and Canada, the local authorities would probably be more than happy to oblige. Make a point in your own friggin’ country. But when you do it in another’s, it’s a whole new ball game.

      But you know what, Oz? You used this as yet another opportunity to criticize America. You know it, and I know it. And without resorting to flaming, but only to make a point, UP YOURS.

      The IDIOT in this case is Marc Emery, no more, no less. And regardless of the outcome of this, he should be hung by the toes and dipped into a vat of boiling oil for being so STUPID. And then you go and take his side and use it as an excuse to spout off — yet again — about the demon America. Sorry, dude. Not this time. And people wonder why I can’t see much of a difference between you and Emery.

      (Okay, so maybe I did finish with a flame. But you deserved this one.)

      • #3053141

        That’s not what he’s doing though

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to How do I explain it??

        He’s not demonstrating and smoking in people’s faces just for the sake of smoking some wacky. That’s where you’ve missed the argument of his arrest. He is practicing his true political faith and beliefs, he therefore should not be imprisoned for doing so, according to Canadian law.

        Canada’s court should not be able to allow his extradition, which I feel may actually be the end result and it will probably be business as usual, with a few changes as always.

        The court has sided with his views on that basis several times and thus leaves him alone.

        So all he has to do is win over Canadian courts, not US courts.

        EDIT: sorry,how rude of me, I forgot to flame you! prick! 😛

        • #3053053

          YOU MISS THE POINT

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to That’s not what he’s doing though

          .
          He’s doing it — whatever IT is — on USA turf. Keep it in Canada, Marc, you brain-dead stupid idiot.

          You said, “Canada’s court should not be able to allow his extradition.”

          But guess what, THEY ARE. Your gripe should be targeted north of the border, not south.

          And the guy is an IDIOT practicing his civil disobedience in the USA, with or without the “blessings” of the Canadians. What a total IDIOT. He’s lost too many brain cells.

          Flame of the day: Read my mind.

        • #3052853

          No they aren’t,, you are missing this one.

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to YOU MISS THE POINT

          Canada has NOT agreed on his extradition. They predict it may take up to two years for this to clear Canadian courts.

          He has to be extradited under Canadian court order still, he goes on trial. Then he is allowed to appeal to the Supreme Court, IF he loses both THEN he goes to the US for hearings, and again is completely within his right to appeal THAT decision too.

          So when I complain about our tax money being wasted, I mean it. RCMP, VPD, Court costs and MORE court costs. This will cost the people tens of thousands if not more by the time is all said and done. His chances of being extradited to the US are slim, but I am not saying it can’t happen.

          So the most likely scenario, he wil spend trwo years dragging this through Canadian courts at MY expense, then be let go on a technicality as Canada’s laws have allowances for people with a political or religious focus behind thier motives. PLUS, it’s the supreme court that has the most members in support of more relaxed drug laws.

          As for reading your mind, I think it’s not neccessary, you only have three or four core values that you base mankind entire existence on. It would be a limerick, not a book.

    • #3053014

      I have been…”out of the loop” recently

      by absolutely ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      But I used to pay close attention to marijuana laws in the United States, and the last I heard, seeds lack the [i]controlled substance[/i] THC, and cannot be prosecuted by the DEA. Obviously, that is no longer the case, at least for Canadians under US jurisdiction. Does anybody know the story of that change? Are US citizens also now prohibited from carrying seeds?

    • #3048684

      for all those that

      by jaqui ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      are getting the impression that Canada is pro drugs.

      http://www.canada.com/vancouver/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=d60b4c2d-a4d3-4460-818a-991d86287eeb

      there is a distinct difference between something that grows naturally, and these chemical cocktails that are killing large sections of users brains with every dose.

    • #3048069

      Drug issues North America

      by mhambrecht ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      You make it sound as if your Government didn’t want to arrest this pot head. Apparently they did or they are just afraid of their less economically challenged neighbor to the south. Or is it that twice this century we have had to pull other nations asses out of the frier. Let’s just say that your country rolls over and dances t our tune since for the most part they have none of their own. I am really sick of other nations citizenry criticizing American Foreign Policy when their own governments obviously support it.
      DRUG WARS
      The war on drugs is being fought in all the wrong ways I agree, however, I don’t believe that for one second ignoring it will make it go away. Drugs are constantly sold for money for guns. You say its just marijuana seeds, whose buying them growing them and selling the by product? You say they are the guilty ones. When it comes to drugs I believe that destroying the pipeline from the top down is a pretty good solution only they have not yet made the punishment fit the crime.

    • #3079150

      How about an update Oz?

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to Clueless in Seattle

      While not looking to argue about if this was valid or not, I am interested in how things are proceeding.

      Are you following this as it proceeds Oz?

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