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  • #2251734

    Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

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    by why me worry? ·

    My wife works for a large international management consulting firm, whose name I won’t disclose for legal reasons and as not to embarrass the company due to the unprofessional behavior of some of its desktop support staff. Anyhow, my wife’s company issued laptop was acting up and causing her grief when working with Excel. Earlier that week, her laptop was crashing with the BSOD at random times. I took a look at her laptop and found that the hard drive had a few bad sectors and that the BSOD was happening as a result of system updates that are scripted to install at some predefined and inconventient time on the laptop. I told my wife to approach her IT dept and request to have them reimage her machine after swapping out the hard drive because it was defective. Based on my wife’s story, it took those snapperheads half a day to troubleshoot the issue, determine that she had a corrupt profile, and reimage her PC. They initially tried to brush her off by making it look as if she was doing something wrong with her laptop and that IT was doing its job. She stated that they ran their own “diagnostics” and didn’t find any bad sectors when on the contrary I had run three different disk scanning utilities and had visibly found problems with the hard drive. The point I am trying to make is that her desktop support staff look down upon the users and assume they are all idiots, when indeed many are smarter and more computer savvier than the desktop support staff. Desktop Support is a customer service position, and if these conceited stuck up individuals think they are God’s gift to IT, then they had better start looking for a new profession. If I were in charge, I’d fire all of them for such unprofessional behavior and for needlessly wasting the end user’s time when they are all under pressure to complete projects and close deals.

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    • #2499534

      Not all. Just the ones that call!

      by 1bn0 ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      PLease continue rant. 😛

      • #2499528

        I agree, but I am not referring to the YASUs’ that spill water

        by why me worry? ·

        In reply to Not all. Just the ones that call!

        on their keyboards or water plants above their CRT monitors. Desktop Support is quick to judge users and assume they are all dumbasses because they are improperly conditioned to think this way. As I said, desktop support is a customer service position, and if you see your customers as idiots, then such arrogance will show in your dealings with them. Such behavior is unprofessional and should not be exhibited in this field.

        • #2499435

          Unprofessional?

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to I agree, but I am not referring to the YASUs’ that spill water

          Were they rude or abusive? What did they do that indicates they think your wife is an idiot, other than question the third-party diagnosis she brought them?

          Do they know you personally and your level of skills? If not, I don’t see anything unprofessional about their questioning your call. I get handed misdiagnosed problems all the time. “My spouse / friend / significant other works on computers and he / she said the problem is … “.

          These guys may have been unprofessional, but the only evidence you’ve cited is that they didn’t agree with the solution offered by a complete stranger.

        • #2500416

          The brush off instead of actively tackling the problem is UNPROFESSIONAL!

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to Unprofessional?

          I don’t expect them to take my wife’s word or my word of what the problem is, but their quick reflex to brush off the user and assume it’s the user’s fault is the problem. Desktop Support is not the DMV or some other gov’t beaurocracy which is programmed to act rude to customers. I am not at all pleased with their general attitude and if you think they are right and I am wrong, then perhaps you need to re-evaluate what Desktop Support means.

        • #2500412

          Cool off.

          by mr.wiz ·

          In reply to The brush off instead of actively tackling the problem is UNPROFESSIONAL!

          Your response is just as unprofessional as you accuse the support people where your wife works. Palmetto’s points are valid.

        • #2500407

          You must be one of those “Desktop Support” techs I talk about

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to Cool off.

          and no, I will not cool off because I stand behind my statement.

        • #2500380

          Wrong.

          by mr.wiz ·

          In reply to You must be one of those “Desktop Support” techs I talk about

          If you’d read my earlier post, you’d know that I agree with most of what you say. The manner that you address other professionals is unprofessional and denigrates your argument. I’ve dealt with both arrogant techs and arrogant users. You’re no better than any of them and just as arrogant in your attitude. If you choose to continue this in this vein, I feel sorry for you.

          And yes, I’m proud to be a “Desktop Support Tech” as you put it. I know that most of my job is customer service and training. I also know how to keep my frustrations and anger from showing to my users and other techs.

        • #2500234

          I don’t think you’re wrong.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to The brush off instead of actively tackling the problem is UNPROFESSIONAL!

          And I don’t think they’re right. But I didn’t see any evidence in your original posting indicating unprofessional behavior. You posted your version of someone else’s version of what happened, with almost no possibility of the technician telling his side. I’m not in any way trying to put your wife in a bad light, but neither you nor I were there.

          What you describe as a “brush-off” may have been her interpretation of the technician’s request that he deal with a more critical task first. We don’t know if the the tech has seen a rash of problems with this model of laptop that were due to something other than a bad drive. We don’t know that all data was on the server, as you state below. I always assume there is data on the drive; users put files on the desktop, some apps put the data where they want, etc. I also consider assuming all data is on the server to be professionally negligent, even if that’s where it’s “supposed” to be. Frankly, and I’m not trying to be rude, we don’t know if your wife has a history of reporting problems that turn out to be user error.

          And yes, I am “one of those Desktop Support techs.”

        • #2509263

          unprofessional???

          by mrivera ·

          In reply to The brush off instead of actively tackling the problem is UNPROFESSIONAL!

          LOL!!! Dude! take it easy! there wasn’t anything wrong with those IT guys.. Palmettos point is right on the money! I think that your wife should have taken the laptop to those guys, mention the problem, get another laptop and allow the IT guys to do their job. Your wife should’ve never mention that X person run some diagnostics and found this and that on the laptop. All she had to do was to mention to them that she was experiencing X number of problems and thats it! If the laptop would have continue to experience any problems or that it eventually dies its the IT problem to deal with and not your wife. Simple as that… my 2 cents…

        • #2509264

          Totally Agree!

          by mrivera ·

          In reply to Unprofessional?

          right on the money!

      • #2500160

        agreed

        by juan18_c ·

        In reply to Not all. Just the ones that call!

        I currently work for a large Educational Institution and even though I agree that not everyone is a dumb ass, I do get 90% of all calls b/c end user mistakes. Hey after all it might just be “That Loose Nut Behind the Keyboard”

    • #2499523

      Multiple Levels

      by mjd420nova ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      Just as there are a multitude of levels of users, so are there many levels of help staff and help desk people. Rarely will a low level user have a call taken by a low level help desk staff. That could really lead to a mess, the user thinking they know what the user is saying and vice versa. Most of our help desk staff are burned out field people, so they really know what questions to ask to get to the root of the problem, and know how to do the work around to get answers in terms that the user can provide without upsetting the users and making them feel really stupid. The help desk people, having been in the field before know how frustrating it can be to get sent to a call that has a description that in no way resembles the real trouble. Now I know that this is the ideal situation, and have a whole library of documented calls that have gone off into left field from the start and went downhill from there. Attitude is 90 percent of service and depends on the communication between caller and dispather being able to really communicate.

    • #2499522

      Agreed

      by mr.wiz ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      I work tech support for a k-12 school district. I try to make sure my users can ask me anything without worrying that I’ll think badly of them.

      The outlook among techs that I’ve noticed is an arrogance because of our technical skills. Technology doesn’t come easily to everyone. The ones that bother me personally are the ones who won’t make any attempt to learn about the technology they are using. Many give me the “its not my job” attitude. Those are the ones who are the biggest challenge.

      I feel that my job is not just to fix customer problems, it is also to educate my customers. Generally that has been a successful strategy and I’ve been able to cut my support calls down.

      Your problem with your wife’s help desk people is understandable. However, criticizing them for following their own procedures and not just taking her word for what the problems were is uncalled for. They don’t know who you are or what your qualifications are. If they are like many of our users, you can’t just take a users word as truth without verification. I get people all the time telling me what their friend, husband, etc. has told them about what is wrong. Sometimes they are right, many times they are wrong or still missed additional problems.

      All we can do is the best we can and try to get along.

      • #2500404

        Their “procedures” waste the end user’s time, which is critical

        by why me worry? ·

        In reply to Agreed

        and instead of wasting half a day to figure out that her profile was shot, it would have been quicker for them to reimage the laptop because all data is stored on the network servers anyway, so there was nothing to lose. I have been in this business too long and it is a complete waste of time in today’s fast paced corporate world to waste half a day troubleshooting laptops and desktops when it is much quicker to blow the damned thing away and reimage it. Even with servers, my policy is to remove the offending server hardware and replace it with a new hardware if that is the case. The goal is to minimize disruption to the business and end user, not to spend half a friggin day poking around to find what’s wrong. Once the bad server is isolated, I have all day to troubleshoot it without affecting the rest of the network.

        • #2500378

          Your solution…

          by mr.wiz ·

          In reply to Their “procedures” waste the end user’s time, which is critical

          may not have followed their local procedures. I agree that a reimage would’ve had the problem fixed quicker, and we can second guess them all day long. Again, what you or I would’ve done is not necessarily relevent to this unless you happen to know what their troubleshooting procedures require in this situation. Not everyone views a problem in the same way and won’t necessarily troubleshoot the same either.

        • #2500226

          Edited / removed

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to Their “procedures” waste the end user’s time, which is critical

          Question removed after rereading the original post.

        • #2500185

          agree with Mr Whiz

          by shellbot ·

          In reply to Their “procedures” waste the end user’s time, which is critical

          Although I completely understand what your saying, I am also agreeing with most others here.

          I am a DBA, but I also do applciation support for my Users. I treat them as if they are Stars and would NEVER talk down to them. However, they may have to wait 3-5 days for me to get thier problem fixed, because I’m extremley busy, and unless its critical, you just have to wait. I also get calls such as ” i can’t send an email”..the old “you use computers therefore you should help me fix this regardless”

          Anyways, put yerself in this guys shoes.
          Maybe he has to document everything he does. I know lots of people in this position.
          Maybe his boss is a jerk, and if he puts “mary’s husband says this is the problem” he is going to look like a right d1ck head in his bosses eyes.
          Maybe they’ve had similar problems and need to try all resolutions to document them as they are looking for a refund form the vendor.
          Maybe they’ve just had 15 people show up with a laptop that isn’t working..and god knows the user didn’t do anything, nope, it was just sitting there and decided not to work. Honestly, the user did nothing..yet when the tech looks into it, they’ve downloaded 40 viruses in the past 6 hours..

          Sometimes people feel “brushed off”, and yes this happens, I’m guilty of giving this impression I’d say..but you know, when i’ve got 6 people on call waiting, 2 servers down, a stack of documentation to do and my boss breathing down my neck..i’ve said “are you sure your doing it right. Go try again/this way and come back to me if its still not working.”

          At least she got it fixed in the end which is more than i can say for some support teams 🙂

        • #2500179

          Sounds like a typical day at the office!

          by mr.wiz ·

          In reply to agree with Mr Whiz

          That’s a fairly typical day at the office most days. Some days I can get right to you, others, not so quickly.

        • #2500127

          I have a system

          by shellbot ·

          In reply to Sounds like a typical day at the office!

          now i’m sure someones going to have a go at me for this, but the system works great.

          P1ss me off and your work goes to the very deep dark bottom of the pile.
          Be halfway pleasant and nice about it, it gets done quick enough.
          Be proactive, respond to my queries for more info on the problem, its gets done within the day if possible.

          A few users have actually figured this out and are a joy to work with.

          Then i have the one that gets frustrated and yells at me..you’d think after 2 years she’d figure out her work always gets done last, and i do just what i need to..no extra.. Ok, i could forgive her the first time she raised her voice and i hung up. But come on..she’s done it about 20 times now..God there is no better feeling than hanging up on a Manager and then ringing her back in 30 minutes and saying “if you’re a bit more relaxed, maybe we can sort this problem out now, if not how about you call me tomorrow”

        • #2498670

          Triage

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to I have a system

          Priorities:
          0) Things my boss tells me overrides other tasks (3-4 times a year).
          1) Shipping department during the last week of the financial month (need to meet the sales quota).
          2) Payroll.
          3) Network / infrastructure problems that keep multiple people from working.
          4) Single user unable to work and I can fix quickly.
          5) Single user able to work and I can fix quickly
          6) Single user unable to work and I can’t fix quickly.
          7) Single user able to work and I can’t fix quickly.
          8) Nice but not essential
          9) Any self-inflicted injury regardless of whether it fits any of the previous categories.

        • #2498659

          Another stab at it…

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Triage

          Priority one:
          major systems failure of a key business system – going to lose money/credibility with customers.

          Priority two
          Major systems failure that impacts a number of people and makes them unable to do their job

          Priority three
          Major failure that impacts one person, and makes it impossible for them to do their job.

          Everything else.

          Self inflicted, I don’t judge necessarily as if the CFO is about to go to an annual meeting, its pretty stupid to be petty about the cause, the company needs you to fix it. Blame can come later.

          I also don’t worry about how quickly I can fix it – the impact to the company should come first. If I need to I can co-operate with my peers to ensure fairness.

          Now, I haven’t been a tech for a decade. But I did manage 20 of them….

          James
          Everything else.

        • #2509407

          Where to begin…?

          by tumbras ·

          In reply to Their “procedures” waste the end user’s time, which is critical

          Worry –

          i can appreciate the type of experience your wife had with her Co’s IT staff. I can also appreciate the fact that even family members can recognize individual IT member’s attitude probably needed an adjustment.

          Having said that, let me say that i am an IT consultant myself, and have worked for several years in Server/Desktop support for large size companies = large size bureaucracy.

          There will always be two sides to every story – both valid for each party involved. Each with their own perspective – which we are ALL entitled to.

          One thing experience has taught me is this – as you have stated – IT Desktop Support ARE primarily two things (hopefully) 1. Educators for the “End-User” community, and 2. Troubleshooters with a boat-load of Customer Service thrown in. Let’s face it, IT staff at that level are “user-facing” so they SHOULD, as you and your wife have the right to expect – be prompt, polite and efficient. In a rosy-colored world, that makes perfect sense. In reality though….

          It staff is ALWAYS, (at least in medium and large Co’s) inundated with several different tasks, more often than not, requiring individual IT members to put on the “Hat” of several different roles. Speaking from my own experience – ive participated in vendor negotiations, project leads, technical writing, training, image design and maintenance, server/kiosk creation, just to name a few. Notice i have not even begin to mention “troubleshooting”. There is a reason why, and that is because the average IT guy is relatively underpaid, and WAY over worked, and that can only = disaster for both the IT guy and the end-user. I’ve never seen a ticketing system (Remedy, Heat, etc..) where their ticket bin was empty – never. They are ALWAYS going to be behind – that’s just the way it is for most of us. As for “just reimage it” – i can totally appreciate that – and if it were ever up to me personally, i would have ALWAYS gone that route. BUT, management has that ugly way of throwing wrenches in your plan – and they want things done a certain way, in a certain order – so if ONE person has a bad experience, so what. Believe it or not, it happens like that. The company is ALWAYS going to look out for it’s bottom line, and unless your wife is an executive with her company, and if her problem is ONLY impacting her, guess what? she’s going to wait, period. That’s why there should be in place contracts with each dept on what is going to be prioritized, and an issue impacting just one person, isn’t going to be placed too high. It’s unpleasant, uncalled for, but it is for the majority of us who’ve worked this business – reality. We IT guys are ALWAYS stuck in the middle, playing referee/negotiator for the management that is so demanding of us, and the end-user who has deadlines to meet.

          What im getting at, is that it’s not so much the IT guys fault, and certainly NOT your wifes either. Its the way in which her Co has probably chosen to delegate PRIORITY of incoming trouble issues – compounded by PROCEDURE, because as you probably know, we too have to abide by the Co’s S.O.P and and contractual agreements we have with each department. That is what governs how and when things get done.
          I cant think of anyone in that position that willingly wants to be berated by an end-user for “taking so long”, but the truth is, they are attempting to do the impossible, and still make everyone happy, (or at least try to).

          I hope your wife doesn’t have another experience like that, she certainly didn’t deserve it. It’s stories like this one that always sticks in the back of my mind when i AM working with an end-user – it’s my internal gauge that evaluates on how im doing with a user – and i try to keep an even-keel about myself always. Number one thing to remember, we are ALL people, not the job-role we play out, but an individual, mother or father, husband or wife – that;s how i look at each of my users.

          regards,
          Nicholas

        • #2626770

          Temp fix

          by nhahajn ·

          In reply to Their “procedures” waste the end user’s time, which is critical

          Reimaging a computer as a fix all is not he best solution. If all they did was blow away the computer and reimage it, the problem would of came back due to the bad sectors. With out the troubleshooting the underlying problem would of resurfaced. Not everyone has the luxury of having extra servers laying around with a image on them ready to replace a bad one.

    • #2499510

      Agree.

      by borginva ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      Support people should at least get a basic idea of what someone knows and what was done, before going on. I had people on the phone tell me how to empty my cache, reboot, clean temps, etc.
      ME
      “Buddy! I have been dealing with computers for years. What you suggest, my PC does once a day on its own. My problem is the NIC is not working.”
      TECH
      “A NIC?”
      ME
      “The network interface card”.
      TECH
      “Okay, let me tell you how to uninstall AOL”.

      Thay may not be a good example, but it is always good for them to ask questions before assuming anything.

    • #2500135

      Subjective

      by highlander718 ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      I think you really see this from a subjective perspective, first of all becuase your wife is involved, and second because you were not there to interpret the moods or tones of the involved actors.
      So I agree with the ones here that are finding attenuating circumstances for the tech guys, especially that you mention it’s about a large company. The larger, the more procedures and policies you have to follow, the more problems and helpDesk tickets you will have, and the more time it will take for problems to be fixed.

      For me, hearing you complain that your wife’s case was not fixed in half a day is just out of proportion. Unless your wife’s the company’s CEO I don’t think her laptop could’ve been fixed in half day.

      the only question is why did she not get a spare laptop, or a spare workstation to work, for the time being ??? Be that half a day or a week.

      • #2498666

        Loaners

        by charliespencer ·

        In reply to Subjective

        We keep a couple of desktops set up in a guest office. Their primary purpose is for employees from other plants who don’t travel much and don’t have laptops. Their secondary purpose is for local employees while their primary computer is being repaired.

      • #2498594

        Assumptions…Assumptions make asses of you and me

        by why me worry? ·

        In reply to Subjective

        The company she works for does not have designated workstations and because they are all “manegement consultants”, they are given laptops to use with the company’s standard image preinstalled. At the HQ, they all have docking stations and no desktops whatsoever. Also, her problem with her laptop affected her entire project team because she could not actively collaborate with her team members to get her part done. It would have been quicker to give her a replacement laptop instead of their desktop support guys wasting half a day on troubleshooting, preventing her from doing her work and jeaporadizing the project, which could have potentially looked very bad in front of the client. No, she is not the CEO, but her ability to get work done on time impacts the company’s bottom line and reputation.

        • #2498579

          maybe not workstations

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to Assumptions…Assumptions make asses of you and me

          but I would think that loaner systems would have been available.
          I work in a large corp and deskside has loaners, and for my dept. I have a few as well (specialty apps installed alerady).

          This means that I can have a loaner setup in a short time (usually 30 min to 1 hour) with basic functionality + more.

        • #2498420

          Okeeeei …

          by highlander718 ·

          In reply to Assumptions…Assumptions make asses of you and me

          so, why did they not have spare laptops than, especially if it’s a basic image involved ?

          Of course we make assumptions, and so do you, you are just mentioning now the importance of your wife’s position and task at that point.

        • #2511590

          I think this is really the point.

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Assumptions…Assumptions make asses of you and me

          “It would have been quicker to give her a replacement laptop instead of their desktop support guys wasting half a day on troubleshooting, preventing her from doing her work and jeaporadizing the project, [b]which could have potentially looked very bad in front of the client.[/b]No, she is not the CEO, but her ability to get work done on time [b]impacts the company’s bottom line and reputation.[/b]”

          How to get your entire company working on serving the customer, especially those whose “customers” are all fellow employees, is an interesting challenge, which is not specific to help desk IT folk.

    • #2498652

      While I partly agree,

      by w2ktechman ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      I also partly do not agree.

      As I do partly work in support, but moving away from it a bit, I do get all kinds of things. Some I pre-diagnose as user problems, yes, and sometimes I am wrong.
      I get told by people consistantly that they have done nothing, or that all they did was open Outlook, or the like. Then I find out that they downloaded a 3rd party program or tried installing a webcam or some other crap.

      Although, as a support professional, I do try to minimise anything that could be considered offensive, and often downplay any fault on their part. This usually makes them feel better, and, they were often just playing around anyway (I do it).

      But, I cannot rely on anyones word of what happened. If I cannot find out the problem quickly, I setup a loaner system and take their system until it is fixed. Then I have all the time I need in order to diagnose the problem(s).

      And 1/2 a day to reinstall the system is nothing here where I work. First I need to use an image, then I need to configure the system, then I need to install apps that are special for their job, then I need to transfer data from the old system/hdd, then I need to setup the backup service and retreive/backup the system.
      usually, for a new hire this takes a day, but for someone that has been here a while, 2 days is not unheard of (or 3 if they do not give me the information that I need).

      Diagnosing, reimaging and transferring data in 1 day is not bad at all.

    • #2498521

      Some desktop people are like that

      by av . ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      Without a doubt, I have worked with desktop support people that have the IT God attitude and are just not helpful. Most are usually not like that though.

      Looking at what happened to your wife from the IT support person’s point of view though, I’d have to do my own testing regardless of what you said about the laptop because thats my job. I wouldn’t have my job for too long if wrote on my trouble ticket that someone’s husband said he scanned the hard disk and found it was bad so I replaced it. If I took the word of every user, I’d be re-imaging laptops or replacing disk drives on a daily basis.

      1/2 day turnaround really isn’t bad. Sure, your wife was inconvenienced and you would think a large company would have loaner laptops to accommodate her, but maybe you’re taking their response too personal because they didn’t follow your advice without question.

      Desktop support is always a slippery slope because you’re dealing with people that are aggravated to begin with because their computer isn’t working and they can’t get their work done.

    • #2498440

      Everybody should not assume their customers are stupid.

      by absolutely ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      & everybody should assume that they are replaceable. But, there is an unspoken collective agreement to resent our work & underachieve, so that no boss can easily fire you because your boss can’t depend on the field of applicants having any better attitude than the conceited, rude mediocrity she wants to fire. Your later post, in which you imply that rudeness at the DMV is expected, therefore acceptable, proves my point. Every job I have ever done has included introduction to the work by the boss, and indoctrination by some or all peers to the collective expectation of laziness & contempt for the work. Better employers have less of this, but I have yet to find an employer totally free of this atmosphere. And as long as people expect to be treated like sh*t when they’re customers at the DMV, they’ll expect to also get away with the same quality of service, to at least some of their customers.

      A thought snack before I close: if you were to complain about the service at the DMV, would you feel like an a**hole? Your taxes pay their wages. Your wife doesn’t pay for the support of her employer’s IT department, she receives money from that employer. Your expectations are higher of somebody who pays money to your household than somebody who receives money from you, who is effectively your employee.

    • #2511604

      The Other Side – I HATE it even MORE

      by now left tr ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      When people get ‘others’ who have no right to be using or looking at equipment to scan / diagnose problems. They have no right to use the system (legally – will be in contracts) and by showing another, such an act can result in the person being fired for gross misconduct.

      If I was the IT department I would report your wife and get her fired for allowing ‘this’ to happen to company owned equipment!

      This is the other side of your coin!!!!

      • #2511652

        Fired for what? Not being able to work on her laptop because IT messed up?

        by why me worry? ·

        In reply to The Other Side – I HATE it even MORE

        Perhaps you need to pull your head out of your anus and realize that my wife came to me for help with her laptop because I have over 15 years of experience in this stuff and the so called IT gurus who run her company’s desktop support staff are all inexperienced kids fresh out of college and don’t understand the business side of IT. I’d fire the idiot in desktop support who wasted her time instead of giving her a new laptop. Such waste of time costs the company money. Perhaps all of you who side with the idiot desktop support tech here do not understand the business side of IT. The customer must be able to work, and any such interruptions in business continuity is the fault of IT.

        • #2490103

          Look at her Employment Contract

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Fired for what? Not being able to work on her laptop because IT messed up?

          and the policy about comapny owned IT equipment.

          You KNOW I am correct in my statement so what are you taking such an issue to it. I was only showing the other side of the coin.

          You could have 1,000,000 years experience but under the employment contract you have no right to ‘look’ at the machine in question.

          I am siding with company policy. Would it be OK for me to take a look at one of your machines without you knowing or allowing???

          You also Say:

          “I have over 15 years of experience in this stuff and the so called IT gurus who run her company’s desktop support staff are all inexperienced kids fresh out of college and don’t understand the business side of IT”

          *********
          NOTE: Your profile says:
          I am a CNE with over 10+ years of IT experience
          You joined in 2005 – so how over 15 years IT experience?
          (if it was 15 you would have say 15, not 10+ – human nature)
          *********

          I’d fire the idiot in desktop support who wasted her time instead of giving her a new laptop”

          So you are firing people because they lack experience now? Despie the fact that they are, as you state, ‘kids’ and again, as you state, just out of ‘college’????? – geeez…glad I never worked for somebody like you when I started 12 years ago.

          I feel sorry that you have built up such a twisted attitude towards support staff. I guess you were never one in your 15! years.

          Hope you don’t get a trainee docor at any time – by your standards you would be better of on a slab than see their likes.

        • #2509522

          No Reply from Why Me Worry – I was correct!

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Look at her Employment Contract

          .

        • #2509425

          Never assume a lack of reply means you’re right.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to No Reply from Why Me Worry – I was correct!

          It may be the other guy is has an actual off-line life for the weekend. It may mean his system or connection are down. It may mean his job responsibilities require him to do some actual work for a while.

          It may just mean he’s decided you’re a twit. I quit responding to the “Irish new members” in January for this reason.

          Mind you, I think you’re right too, but not getting a response doesn’t prove either of us right.

        • #2509422

          But HE posted below !!!!!!!!!!!

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Never assume a lack of reply means you’re right.

          So what you say now?

    • #2490023

      Re: Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      by b.mojo ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      Of course they think they are smarter than you. They assume that if it’s broken, you broke it. In my company, we had a programmer that wrote a few routines for the work staff to use on their terminals. One of these staff members decided to change a few things in the program. The database lacked certain data for a new product line, and was to be updated by the program administrator. The administrator, or the programmer, was out for the week, so the employee decided to do it himself. He succeeded in totally screwing up the entire database which, needless to say, infuriated the programmer no end, and dressed down the hapless employee for messing with his stuff. My argument for the defense was if the program was so easy to break, then why didn’t he include safeguards and blocks to prevent unauthorized use of the Administrator’s tools? Although the employee did not violate any rules of conduct, he still should have waited for an authorized person to make the changes, but the program should have been able to prevent this.

      • #2490008

        I completely agree, but my wife is not a programmer

        by why me worry? ·

        In reply to Re: Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

        she is a typical user of their system and just happens to be a victim of a poor desktop support policy and sub-standard QA procedures to ensure that the company’s employees are not getting defective laptops. She did initially go to her desktop support dept when her laptop started acting up. They scanned it with their own tools and didn’t find anything wrong. She approached me and had me take a look at it and I found a rash of bad sectors and corrupt areas on the hard drive, yet her IT dept gave the machine a “clean bill of health”. A few weeks pass and her laptop started working even worst than before. How come I was able to find problems with the machine and her desktop guys didn’t find anything wrong, assuming they performed a thorough analysis of the machine? This just goes to show that they didn’t do anything about it, or their troubleshooting skills are seriously flawed. Another thing that points to the desktop support’s lack of expertise are the constant software updates they push out on their network, causing laptops to behave erratically thereafter. My wife is no computer expert, but she has noticed a pattern with when the updates are pushed and when her laptop starts acting up. Coincidence? I think not!

        • #2489992

          Possibly, their job requirements assume that [i]they[/i] are stupid…

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to I completely agree, but my wife is not a programmer

          “How come I was able to find problems with the machine and her desktop guys didn’t find anything wrong, assuming they performed a thorough analysis of the machine?”

          It’s quite possible that they work from a “troubleshooting” [i]script[/i] that requires certain actions, regardless of technological sub-category of reported malfunction.

        • #2489942

          Sounds like Dell’s Technical Support

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to Possibly, their job requirements assume that [i]they[/i] are stupid…

          Customer: “I checked my NIC status and I am getting an IP address, Gateway, and DNS server”

          Technician: “Please be going to start-run, and type cmd, followed by enter key. Then type ipconfig /all”

          Customer: “But I already told you I have a valid IP address, that’s not the problem I am having”

          Technician: “Please be rebooting your PC”

          Customer: “I’ve done that numerous times already, but that does not address the problem”

          Technician: “Please be following directions or I cannot assist you otherwise”

          Customer: “Stop wasting my f*****g time because your troubleshooting skills suck..goodbye”

          That’s the point I am making here. They follow some script for troubleshooting as if they are a bunch of trained monkeys, yet refuse to use their brains and logical analysis to pinpoint the source of the problem. This is what distinguishes us seasoned IT pros from these amateur wannabes who are trained to perform their jobs like robots.

        • #2489921

          But that is not the tech’s fault in many cases

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to Sounds like Dell’s Technical Support

          that is policy.
          I used to work for a company as a deskside lead. There were certain people on the helpdesk that knew me well and other deskside people. B ut unfortunately, they did not last long at the helpdesk because they took our word on what we did rather than follow the script in front of them.
          Even though we were trained pro’s in the same company, they still had to follow the script to a ‘T’ or face write-ups and possible terminations.

          Some of these people suck, but the majority are trying to keep their jobs long enough to get enough experience to find a new job.

        • #2489915

          Granted, then the buttheads in charge of the dept should be fired

          by why me worry? ·

          In reply to But that is not the tech’s fault in many cases

          if they expect their desktop support techs to perform like trained monkeys and waste the customer’s time on illogical troubleshooting methods. After this incident with my wife’s laptop, I don’t think very highly of her company’s IT dept or their policies and methodoly of doing things. Maybe I am being too objective, but I know incompetence and mismanagement when I see it, because I have been in this business long enough.

        • #2493648

          Yes, that’s probably the main problem.

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Granted, then the buttheads in charge of the dept should be fired

          “Maybe I am being too objective, but…”

          Yes, there is a popular epidemic of locally excessive objectivity, which deprives morons of the opportunity to stumble upon the correct answer by random chance and also be first to arrive at that correct answer. On behalf of morons everywhere, “Please stop”. On behalf of myself, please continue.

        • #2509421

          welcome to the real world

          by shellbot ·

          In reply to Granted, then the buttheads in charge of the dept should be fired

          i don’t know where you work, but this is pretty much how it is most places.

          My manager makes my descions for me, yet doesn’t even have enough knowledge to sort her email by date or name.. I’m no expert, but at least i’ve got several years experience with databases and programming. I have my users begging me for some alterations to our application, and i wholeheartedly agree with them, however, manager won’t sign off on it, as she doesn’t understand the importance of it.

          Such is life..maybe those idiot kids out of college are simply trying to do the best the can within an environment which limits them? Obvioulsy if there are no loaners and other things you say are true, its pretty obvious that the management is doing things how they want to , not how they should be done. If its that bad, i bet they are all planning on moving on when they can.

          Maybe those kids feel like your wife, frustrated by those who they lok to for help?

    • #2509458

      stupid or nontechnical?

      by shuubz ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      as my wife says, computer people are like hairdressers, they rarely like or trust each other’s work.

      just because you know what you’re doing, doesn’t mean that their IT staff has to buy your diagnosis. when it comes out of the mouth of a non-IT user, it is no better than hearsay. add to that the grim stats on computer literacy (most adults over 30 are using computers at a 4th-grade level, if that, and management is usually worse), and it becomes reasonable to assume that the user has no competence in diagnosing IT problems.

      i understand your annoyance, since your wife is the user in question, but such assumptions are usually correct, and justified by operational necessity. they could certainly have handled the situation better in terms of communication and setting expectations. i don’t know the competence level or the tools available to their IT department, so i can’t judge that side of the incident.

      it usually helps to step back and judge such things without sentiment, though when it comes to my own wife, i have a hard time remaining detached as well.

    • #2509429

      Egotistical, Arrogant Writer

      by d50041 ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      What’s up this this really bad attitude on “Why Me Worry’s” part. He’s the problem. Not understanding computers is not “stupid”, its being ignorant of how computers work, just as IT pros are ignorant how other professions work. What a rant from a silly, self centered guy who’s whole tirade is based on the fact that HIS diagnois what not quickly accepted by his wife’s company support ataff!!!

    • #2509356

      Why worry about what you can’t control

      by dcrandell@newtonenterpris ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      With my little bit of experience in Tech Support in Reatil (which i no longer do) i have had so many people that have had their best friend “the plumber” diagnose their problem. It was taken as a valid point of view, but we still HAD to REPEAT the problem IN HOUSE. I personally do not accept a diagnosis from someone that I do not know or who does not work for the company. Not saying that they are wrong, but have to see the problem for myself.
      For the problem with the timeline, how do you know that there weren’t 3 other systems that were needing repair before this one? If the company does have loner systems they may all in use because of the 3 other systems that are in.
      Where I worked there were times that it took WEEKS to get parts in if they needed to be replaced and yes customers were frusterated but it was out of our control. Anything warranty we had to get parts form that supplier.

      I also agree with the post about the service contract (I don’t remember the name of the poster) on a lot of systems the warranty can be VOID if an unauthorised person works on the system. Not to mention the information that is on the system being possibly seen by an unauthorised 3rd party.

      I’m not saying that it was a problem for your Wife to have a possible solution, but they will have to be able to do their job in the way that they are told by their management. If they have to follow a guide then that is what they do. Just because you have “found” the solution you don’t have any authority over them and should stay off their backs.

      When you started out I’m sure you had people with experience looking down on you and thinking that you were holding back progress.
      Everyone has to start somewhere, the only way to get experience is to do it yourself, and not have to listen to someone elses husband rant about the half day that his wife couldn’t do work.

      • #2490245

        Because I have no worries about what I do control.

        by absolutely ·

        In reply to Why worry about what you can’t control

        And what I can control, but don’t, I choose not to control because I have no need to control it. What’s left, if I’m going to worry about anything at all, the only logical choice is that which I [i]cannot[/i] control.

        :p

    • #2490334

      Helpdesk Revenge

      by gphalpin ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      Sounds like the IT people there are sick and tired of their jobs and users. Here’s a site dedicated to unruly users–not that your wife falls in that category.
      http://www.helpdeskrevenge.com

      • #2490328

        That’s funny…I think I’ll bookmark it

        by why me worry? ·

        In reply to Helpdesk Revenge

        and yes, there are stupid users out there, but some users are smarter than most desktop support staff give them credit for.

        • #2511203

          That is a good point

          by dcrandell@newtonenterpris ·

          In reply to That’s funny…I think I’ll bookmark it

          I totally agree that some support staff are best at supporting a chair or wall. I find it kind of sad when the ISP comes to hook up my home internet and has absolutely no clue why there is no signal and I have to troubleshoot myself. Or when they walk in and you just flat out tell them “make the call its ready to go” and they just look at your setup and are completely amazed at something they could never do.

    • #2626768

      you probably violatd their IT policy

      by nhahajn ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      by running diagnostics on her company owned laptop anyway. If I took everything that users tell me they think is wrong with their computers(along with their solution which is always – I just need a new computer), I would be fired for over spending the budget. your comments are just as rude as the desktop support people.

    • #2626767

      End user’s Husbands

      by jan-carel.coetzee ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      Users should not always assume that they know more about desktops and internal company programs and End Users husbands should not always think that they know more than the IT support of their spouses company.For all that you know your findings might have been incorrect. There may be some settings or programs that you know nothing about and then you go and mess up more than fixing a problem.

    • #2782391

      Opinions Vary

      by computrtek ·

      In reply to Desktop Support Staff Should Not Assume That All Users Are Stupid

      I must say I understand where your coming from…. however, I’ve been doing this for 14 years and I can honestly say that the amount of computer savvy people compared to the computer illiterate is small indeed.

      We as support technician are lied to on a consistant basis, for instance. ” No I didn’t download anything … it just stopped working” 😐 sure… whatever.

      Also… when people assume they know more than the man/woman trying to fix things…if that is the case… fix it yourself and stop wasting our time.

      We run into a lot a people who blame the machine when it is clearly their fault. running third party software is never a good idea since they have no idea what has been done on the back end.

      I know some peiople are condescending… but they are few. when we get met with the whole “you serve me” attitude, it is like being in retail… most people don’t work there because it it the end user/customer that looks down at us. SO this is actually on both sides of the fence.

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