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February 20, 2008 at 6:25 pm #2244108
Do routers slow down your internet speed?
Lockedby txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
I just had Cox install a telephone service in my house. The installer said that I get lousy download speeds because of my router (Netgear WTG624 v2). I did not believe him. After he connected my telephone service, I went to speakeasy.net service to check my download speed (the cat cable was connected to the pc without the router) and I logged 25 to 30MB/sec as my download speed! When I connected my netgear router to it, my download speed dropped to 5.9 or 6 MB/sec. The upload speed remained at 512Kbs/sec. I need the router to get internet to the rest of my home computers but am very concerned in the deterioration of download speed. I even checked the speed at dslreports.com and got the same result. So, my question is:
Is there a way to get my internet speed up with the router? Or should I get a new router? If so, what brand/model of router do you suggest? I thought it was my cat cable from the router to the pc and I changed that and the results were the same. I am at a loss as to what or why my download speed is one fifth of the speed without the router.
Thanks for your input.Topic is locked -
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February 20, 2008 at 9:24 pm #2558613
try
by cholan41 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Do routers slow down your internet speed?
In general, the maximum range for DSL without a repeater is 5.5 km ,As distance decreases toward the telephone company office, the data rate increases. Another factor is the gauge of the copper wire. The heavier 24 gauge wire carries the same data rate farther than 26 gauge wire. If you live beyond the 5.5 kilometer range, you may still be able to have DSL if your phone company has extended the local loop with optical fiber cable.
or
chk go to the http:192.168.0.1 see the modem setting try to disable the wireless setting-
February 21, 2008 at 7:04 am #2557078
Cable company not a phone company
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to try
First I have a cable company, and not a phone company. The internet and phone signals come through a fibre optic line to the street level and through a coaxial cable to my house. My wireless setting on my router has been disabled.
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February 20, 2008 at 9:27 pm #2558612
Have you tried updating the driver(s) ???
by sleepin’dawg · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Do routers slow down your internet speed?
a lot of downloads are slow due to a lot of access to their servers being made at the same time creating a bottle neck but if your drivers are outdated that could also slow things down.
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February 21, 2008 at 7:06 am #2557072
Which drivers?
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Have you tried updating the driver(s) ???
The firmware for the router has already been updated. To my knowledge, netgear has stopped supporting this router and have “discontinued” it. There has been no firmware update for several years on this router.
Thanks for trying to help.
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February 20, 2008 at 11:01 pm #2558594
Do routers slow down your internet speed?
by info · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Do routers slow down your internet speed?
Please don’t have anything unnecessary on your desktop as it will take more time for the processor to do the processing. Next,don’t store movies,pictures etc. unless and otherwise they are very important. Please write these things in a CD/DVD and store them.I need to know more details regarding what type of softwares you have installed in your system.Thank you mate.
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February 21, 2008 at 7:07 am #2557071
Stuff on computer
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Do routers slow down your internet speed?
But that still doesn’t explain why routerless connection is so fast compared to router-ed connection. The computer is still the same.
Thanks for helping out. -
February 21, 2008 at 11:54 am #2556874
Ehr
by kjell_andorsen · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Do routers slow down your internet speed?
I’m sorry, but this makes no sense and is bordering on plain bad advice.
The amount of data stored on your system has nothing to do with network speed.
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February 21, 2008 at 12:08 pm #2556858
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February 21, 2008 at 5:38 am #2557147
Consumer Grade Equipment
by michael kassner · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Do routers slow down your internet speed?
First you were directly connected via Ethernet cable to the Internet perimeter device and used an application to determine data rate. Next you injected the Netgear router in between the perimeter device and your computer, once again using the same application to determine throughput. The only difference was the router and one additional Ethernet cable.
The testing was done using wired connections and not wireless? Were there other computers actively using the router while you ran the tests?
You did not mention what the data rates for the Internet access were, but from your test results it sounds like a rather healthy pipe. The Netgear is a consumer grade device and Netgear does not advertise what the external to internal interface throughput specifications are for any of their consumer equipment. That device has a firewall and other security measures that all affect throughput and you maybe seeing the results of that.
One test that you can try is to remove the external to internal interface exchange. Just plug the Ethernet cable from the Internet perimeter device into one of the 4 switch ports of the Netgear router and also the Ethernet cable from the computer. That way the router is acting as a basic switch. You also may have to shut of the DHCP server on the Netgear router if that is enabled. If the throughput is still poor then you have a really issue with that piece of hardware.
The other possible explanation is that particular device is defective, there are no real methods for typical users to test hardware devices for performance other than what you have tried. I might suggest asking Netgear about your findings and see what they suggest. But first make sure that your device has the latest firmware or they will not listen to you.
I am of the opinion that the device is going to continue to be a bottleneck and you will have to move to a business style wireless router that has better throughput numbers i.e., more expensive.
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February 21, 2008 at 7:16 am #2557065
Consumer equipment
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Consumer Grade Equipment
Yes, the testing was done through wired connection and not through wireless connection. No, there were no other computers running or accessing the internet while the testing was done.
I will try your suggestion of changing the ethernet cable from the cable modem and into router’s switch ports rather than its LAN (input) ports. Yes, the DHCP server setting in the router is still disabled.
The router has the latest firmware upgrades.
Do you have any suggestion for a better business device with lossless throughput?
Thanks-
February 21, 2008 at 10:26 am #2556936
Data rate
by michael kassner · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Consumer equipment
Could you specify the data rate that your ISP is delivering.
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February 21, 2008 at 11:21 am #2556902
Data rate
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Data rate
With the router, it is (download) 6900-7000kbps/sec and without the router it is 28000-29000 kbps/sec
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February 21, 2008 at 7:20 pm #2557334
Forgive me for not being clear
by michael kassner · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Data rate
It is important to know what the ISP is providing you as per your EULA or the SLA. Not what you are seeing during the tests.
Also did you happen to run that test I suggested about just using a router as a switch. Also Dumphrey expanded on what I was trying to point out earlier, but without knowing the provided bandwidth suggesting an alternate router would not be a good idea.
I am curious as to what kind of Internet access you have also as it appears that you have significant bandwidth.
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February 22, 2008 at 6:34 am #2557176
Your questions
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Forgive me for not being clear
According to my cable package, I am supposed to get upto 3 MB/sec but with the installation of my phone service, my speeds are upto 6 MB/sec (with a router) and upto 25-29 MB/sec without a router.
No, I could not do the test that you suggested. When I remove the ethernet cable from the LAN input jack and put it into one of the other 4 jacks, I don’t get any interent connection via my router. My router has 1 LAN input and 4 outputs. I don’t know what settings you want me to test, but I thought you wanted me to use the router as a “switch”, and that I should not use the router as a LAN device. I am hoping that is what you meant, and I did do the test that you suggested, but I just could not get any internet connection at all on my pc when I did that.The provided bandwith, as I mentioned earlier, is supposed to be around 3 MB/sec.
I have Cox cable internet service with Cox telephone service recently installed.
Thanks for all your help. -
February 25, 2008 at 5:32 am #2657124
Interesting.
by michael kassner · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Your questions
So actually you are getting the SLA agreed upon bandwidth with the router in place. I actually suspect that the ISP has the line configured wrong and has not instigated bandwidth throttling as of yet. That is a big pipe without the router acting as a bottleneck. Most people would be very happy with the 6Mb.
I would be hesitant to get purchase a router capable of handling that kind of throughput until you knew it was going to stay that way. If you are not paying for 25Mb ( I think you mean Mb not MB) they will shut it off as soon as they figure it out.
As for what kind of router, I suspect you would need something on the order of a Cisco 1800 series router that had sufficient memory to process that kind of bandwidth. If you are inclined to pursue this the best thing would be to call a Cisco “gold certified” partner to get exactly what you need.
As for the router not acting as a switch that is also interesting. The port where it does work is not really a LAN port but more of a WAN/Internet /external interface port. The other 4 ports are actually the LAN/internal interface ports. More than likely you have the DHCP server configured on the router and it is interfering with the DHCP server on the Internet perimeter device.
The test is somewhat moot anyway as there is no way that router will successfully process 25Mb throughput.
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February 25, 2008 at 5:52 am #2657752
Cox cable
by the listed ‘g man’ · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Your questions
If you are not using the provided router what is the Cox cable being plugged in to exactly?
Are you now measuring the speed of the cable feed in general (TV, Phone, Web) and not just the ‘Internet’ feed?
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July 22, 2009 at 2:01 pm #3009080
A point with the tests you did suggested by Michael
by deadly ernest · about 14 years, 8 months ago
In reply to Your questions
I’ve a similar series router and the router actually establishes and maintains the Internet connection as well as the Network Address Translation and other firewall activities, it also does DHCP unless you turn that off.
When you test without the router in place are you setting up your computer to be the gateway establishing and maintaining the Internet connection, or just doing a test of the cable capability instead?
When you set up to use the router as just a switch, did you set your computer up to be the gateway and not have it still look to the router as the gateway – that will make a difference to seeing the Internet?
I know when cable capability tests were done on my adsl link, by the tech when I got adsl, the readings were a lot higher than what I got when I connected to the Internet. In the first place it’s measuring what the cable can handle as a maximum, in the second it’s handling what I’m permitted via the ISP throttling to meet my account standard. You may be hitting the same difference.
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February 21, 2008 at 11:24 am #2556900
Do routers slow down your internet speed?
by gar123 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Do routers slow down your internet speed?
My Belkin wireless router was giving me problems recently. I called my cable ISP and they told me there were issues with this unit. Even with a firmware upgrade. I have since bought a Dlink 802.11n router from Circuit City and I now have maximum throughput to the other wireless computers in my house. Only thing I have to do is upgrade the 802.11g adapters on my PC’s to 802.11n to really get my money’s worth. The model is D-Link Wireless N Router Model #DIR615. Bought it for 49.99. It is 69.99 on their internet site.
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February 21, 2008 at 11:33 am #2556897
Lossless throughput?
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Do routers slow down your internet speed?
Is your throughput using the D-Link DIR615 lossless? That is, are the download speeds the same with or without the router?
Thanks-
February 21, 2008 at 12:12 pm #2556854
There can not be a lossless
by dumphrey · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Lossless throughput?
router. By nature of what it’s doing with the packets (store n forward, NAT/PAT, SPI, firewalls, ACLS etc) there will be some loss, the idea is to keep that loss as tiny as possible.
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February 22, 2008 at 6:36 am #2557175
Lossless router?
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to There can not be a lossless
Ok, I understand that, so my next question is: which wired/wireless router minimizes the throughput loss? Should I just get the business routers, in that case?
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February 22, 2008 at 7:34 am #2657083
Dlink router
by gar123 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Lossless router?
Hey txt,
On that Dlink i mentioned yesterday. It was working flawlessly until last night. I had some kind of interference on my TV. During this period (60min+-), my connection kept disconnecting from the wireless router. After the interference cleared up, it worked fine. I don’t know where the interference came from. First time I have seen that happen on my TV in a few years. Looked like interference from a motor or generator. So in a nutshell the Dlink might be more susceptible to electrical interference noise. Don’t remember having this problem with my old Belkin. Just my 2 cents.
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February 21, 2008 at 12:46 pm #2556834
Lossless throughput?
by gar123 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Lossless throughput?
Don’t know the answer to that. Installed about a week ago. I do know the signal strength is better then the Belkin I had before. 802.11n has more range. Belkin signal would fluctuate often and give me slow internet. It was also easy to setup. I have seen negative reviews on it but that probably is due to the users computer knowledge.
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February 21, 2008 at 11:57 am #2556870
Port speed
by fregeus · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Do routers slow down your internet speed?
I think you may connect to your cable modem at a link speed of 100 Mb/s with your PC but you connect at a link speed of 10 Mb/s on your router.
Can you confirm the link speed you connect to with both devices? While you’re at it, check the duplex settings too
TCB
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February 22, 2008 at 6:44 am #2557166
What is link speed?
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Port speed
Can you please tell me what is link speed and how can I determine that? Also, please tell me how to determine or check my duplex settings?
I went into the router settings and this is what came up:
RF Parameters
Downstream
Freq/Power: 591.000 MHz 1 dBmV
Signal to Noise Ratio: 38 dB
Modulation: QAM256——————————————————————————–
Upstream
Freq/Power: 22.000 MHz 43 dBmV
Channel Type: DOCSIS 1.x (TDMA)Symbol Rate: 2560 kSym/sec
Modulation: QAM16
Interface Parameters
Interface Name Provisioned State Speed
LAN Enabled UP 100(Full)
CABLE Enabled UP —-
USB Enabled DOWN 12
MTA passWithWarnings UP —-Thanks for helping out.
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February 22, 2008 at 7:18 am #2657098
Ok
by fregeus · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to What is link speed?
See this:
LAN Enabled UP 100(Full)This means that your PC is connected to your router at 100 Mb full duplex.
But this:
CABLE Enabled UP —-Tells me that your cable is connected Either directly into your router, which would be strange, or it does not have the speed and duplex settings. Now that could be that there is an error and it is not set properly or it has trouble talking to your cable modem. Do you have a cable modem?
TCB
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February 22, 2008 at 2:44 pm #2656839
Cable modem
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Ok
Yes, the coaxial cable carrying the internet signal goes into the cable modem first and then via the cat5 to the router.
Thanks
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February 21, 2008 at 12:06 pm #2556860
Short answer is YES
by dumphrey · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Do routers slow down your internet speed?
A router reads packets and decides what to do based on IP information, processes ACLs, acts as a firewall, and keeps track of all tcp/ip connections for the firewall. A faster router will limit this delay to almost non-existent, a slow router will highlight the problem. most consumer grade routers are about 80 Mhz processors, 8MB of ram, and around 16 Mb of flash. Even a cisco 870 more then doubles this. An ancient p2 with 256 MB of ram can seriously increase throughput over a consumer router. Also, many of these routers have sub-standard firmware, and unfixed bugs. Many times a “new generation” will be released as opposed to fixing problems with older hardware.
Also, the WAN interface of your router may not be configured for optimal communication on the net. Keep in mind we are talking about a piece of hardware that costs less then a decent good frying pan.
Devil linux, smoothwall, monowall, cayote linux, freesco, these are all options to build your own router. You may be surprised by the results.
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February 22, 2008 at 6:46 am #2557163
Make your own router?
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Short answer is YES
Now you ‘ve got me interested. How do you make your own router? Do you have a link or a url that I can look at?
Thanks-
February 22, 2008 at 8:46 am #2657028
Own Router
by the listed ‘g man’ · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Make your own router?
First you need an old PC that is not in use. Make sure it has a CD-ROM and about 256 MB of memory.
Next ensure that it has at least two NIC’s. One for the LAN side and one for the WAN side. Any more NIC’s you add would be for a DMZ style setup.
Next look around the web for ISO images that you can create boot CD’s for your router / firewall.
I use smoothwall (http://www.smoothwall.org) but there are others.
Burn the ISO and then run this boot CD in your machine.
From there just configure as instructed.
It is even more fun creating your router if you play The Trooper by Iron Maiden in the background but think ‘The Router’ instead.
What is the problem here
THE ROUTER!!!!!!!!! – (Guitars start…) -
February 22, 2008 at 2:48 pm #2656837
Thanks
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Own Router
Thanks I will try that.
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February 21, 2008 at 12:11 pm #2556856
Why I dopn’t buy Netgear
by kjell_andorsen · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Do routers slow down your internet speed?
In general I’m not a big fan of NetGear stuff, and while I have no experience with this particular router, it seems alot of people are unhappy with it from reading online reviews. Looking at the stats you posted it may be that the ethernet interface on the router is having a hard time autonegotiating the speed with your NIC to 100Mbps. It may just be establishing a 10Mbps connection between the router and the PC, which in practice would probably just give the 6-7Mbps speeds you’re seeing.
I don’t know where to configure the settings on the Netgear to make sure it’s set for 100MBps full duplex though, but if you can get a hold of a Netgear tech they might be able to tell you.
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February 21, 2008 at 12:14 pm #2556850
I have had bad luch with pretty
by dumphrey · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Why I dopn’t buy Netgear
much all consumer router brands…
Linksys makes almost pure garbage anymore, they lock up at the drop of a hat, are slow, and have weir bugs. Dlink, very slow and very underpowered. Belkin? they self destruct…. -
February 22, 2008 at 6:49 am #2557160
Netgear full duplex settings
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Why I dopn’t buy Netgear
Unfortunately, that model (Netgear WGT 624 v2) has been discontinued and I could not find anywhere on router settings where I can change the “full duplex settings”.
I am sure there must be a way to do that. If only I knew.
Thanks for helping.
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February 22, 2008 at 6:43 am #2557168
Yes, by default….
by the listed ‘g man’ · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Do routers slow down your internet speed?
anything that accepts inputs, processes and delivers outputs will slow any stream of information down by result of processing time.
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February 22, 2008 at 6:53 am #2557155
Routers’ are speed bumps?
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Yes, by default….
If that is the case, I am surprised that we don’t hear about this feature in routers. If they are really speed bumps, then why not come up with a router that just allows lossless throughput or minimize losses in throughput? Just curious. I can’t believe my router is what is slowing my speeds down so much.
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February 22, 2008 at 7:05 am #2657108
Lossless Throughput…
by the listed ‘g man’ · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Routers’ are speed bumps?
is impossible as there has to be an overhead for any processing. That would be like asking you 100 questions in 20 seconds and expecting an a perfect answer for each. You could not manage this, why?
Well you need time to accept the input, process it and then respond.
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February 22, 2008 at 7:12 am #2657103
Thanks
by txtbkseller2006 · about 16 years, 1 month ago
In reply to Lossless Throughput…
I thought your response was excellent! Makes perfect sense.
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July 22, 2009 at 12:05 pm #3009154
im having same issue
by amiljacobs · about 14 years, 8 months ago
In reply to Routers’ are speed bumps?
Same problem im having ..I have COX isp. Im suppose to get around 12 mb download speed and when i direct connect from my cable modem to my pc, i get around there which is great.
As soon as i connect my wireless 4 port NETGEAR firewall router, it drops to around 5 or 6mb, this is on wireless .
Now when i use the 4 port switch built in , i do get around 7 or 8 mb but not where i should at around 12 mb.
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July 22, 2009 at 12:26 pm #3009138
I am not sure if….
by thumbsup2 · about 14 years, 8 months ago
In reply to im having same issue
… you are complaining about the service or asking a question about it.
If you are asking a question, read the rest of this thread. The answers are provided within, the simple version being ‘when you add the router, you will never get the same throughput as when the router is not in the picture, ESPECIALLY with wireless’.
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July 22, 2009 at 12:55 pm #3009119
Here’s a paper that might help understanding
by cg it · about 14 years, 8 months ago
In reply to I am not sure if….
throughput in Ethernet networks.
http://sd.wareonearth.com/~phil/jumbo.html
While I don’t think cable uses jumbo frames, the paper does provide throughput calculations and explains data transmissions.
Note: you will always get higher transmission rates with a directly connected computer but that still is limited by what the equipment can handle.
Note: With NAT the router must strip the packet to determine the destination address and forward it. While routers do this very efficently, the amount of throughput is still limited by the network and it’s equipment.
Note: Please see 32 bit CRC on ethernet networks that use maximum segment size of 1500 [MTU].
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December 23, 2008 at 11:46 pm #2985313
any update?
by stevenl · about 15 years, 3 months ago
In reply to Do routers slow down your internet speed?
I just install comcast cable modem recently and see the same problem, the 2wire test shows 20+Mb if I connect the pc directly to cable modem, but it drops to 5-8Mb once I add my netgear WGT624 in the between. wonder any update or solution for this problem. Thanks for input.
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July 22, 2009 at 3:03 pm #3009054
To contrast
by dwdino · about 14 years, 8 months ago
In reply to Do routers slow down your internet speed?
I have a Juniper Netscreen 5GT at my house. I see no difference between directly connected and routed.
Why?
Because this device is built to specifications above the D-Links, Netgears, and Linksys devices. All home/consumer devices are built to meet a certain minimum which is usually 10 Mbps at most. They simply do not have the resources (processor, memory, etc) to receive, inspect, and forward packets faster.
If you have more than ~8 Mbps of inbound bandwidth, I would have to suggest upgrading to more robust router/firewall. These usually start in the $75+ ballpark.
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