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Happy Fourth of July

By neilb@uk ·
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Today is the day when all Americans should give thanks to the French, without whose aid, you would all be Canadian and probably much nicer people. Are you going to remember the French when you set off your firecrackers? Of course you are...

OK, I know I'm a day early but most of you will be - should be - too busy enjoying yourself (drunk) to post tomorrow.

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Actually, I'm working on the 4th.

by CharlieSpencer In reply to Happy Fourth of July

We're replacing seven switches, and there won't be anyone else in the building. They're already mounted, I just have to move all the cables over.

The good news is that the new ones are going in parallel to the old ones, so it's not a 'do or die' situation. If something has a problem, I'll just move it back to the old switch and troubleshoot it on Friday. However, the new one I brought on line two weeks ago has performed to expectations, so I don't see any problem. With any luck I'll get two done this afternoon when everyone leaves, and the other four tomorrow.

It's good to live in any country where you have the opportunity to do work you enjoy! I regard our 'Revolution' as similar to one of those big knock-down, drag-out fights between maturing young adults and their parents. The kid storms out of the house for good, but the relationship eventually matures into one of mutual respect.

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Canadian?

by GSG In reply to Happy Fourth of July

I seem to remember from History class that we were fighting England and the Hessians.

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The Declaration of Independence

by john.a.wills In reply to Canadian?

refers to "the King of Grat Britain", England having been absorbed into Great Britain 69 years earlier. If your history teacher told you otherwise, you should have pulled him up on it.

Had the Revolution not happened, Ohio and Florida would have continued as GB colonies administerd for the good ot the Native Americans living there, so North America would have been a lot less Anglo. Also, the British North America Act would have included those 13 colonies, Ohio, Florida, the extended Canada as under the Quebec Act (3 of the current United States) and the western and maritime provinces of what is now Canada, though presumably not the Spanish territories of Aztlan, so neilb is perhaps right about "being Canadians". Also, slavery would have been abolished somewhat earlier, so perhaps certain people would indeed have been nicer.

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Great Britain

by GSG In reply to The Declaration of Indepe ...

OK, England was me, not my History teacher. However, I think it was a stretch to say we'd be part of Canada. Possible, but a stretch. I would like to protest the comment that we'd be nicer. I think that in general, we were plenty nice.

However, I will blame all of my History teachers for the great Christopher Columbus lie and the F I got on the paper that I had to write about who discovered America and that I titled, "Christopher Columbus Did Not Discover America".

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Canadian? Since we're assuming no U.S. independence...

by CharlieSpencer In reply to Great Britain

1) Jefferson would have never purchased Louisiana. Many of us might now be French. Of course, the Alaskans might be Canadians, although they might also still be Russkies.

2) None of the western treaties and wars would have occurred, at least not in the name of this country. Lacking those, many of us might have always been Mexican.

3) Although #2 above assumes Mexican independence. Lacking the U.S. example, it (and everything to its south) may have not successfully have separated from Spain. In that case, those in the U.S. west would be Spanish instead.

4) It's anyone's guess if Hawaii would still be a monarchy, or if Texas would have remained an independent republic (most likely because no one else would want it ).

In short, there's a lot more to the US than the former British colonies of the eastern seaboard. I can understand some forgetting that; I might too if I lived in one of those itsy-bitsy European nations :-)

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You would have been part of the British Empire

by neilb@uk In reply to Canadian? Since we're as ...

which, back then, was pretty far from "itsy-bitsy" and getting bigger.

We would not have purchased Louisiana but I do suspect that we would have taken it for nothing at the latest following Waterloo. Especially if the revolution, backed by France, had failed rather than not having occurred.

Whether we have stolen quite so much land from the Mexicans as the US did is an interesting point but I think that war with Mexico would have been unavoidable and it would have been you and us verses them so we might have taken even more.

It's not likely that the settlers would have stopped expanding the borders because the rulers had changed.

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Waterloo?

by john.a.wills In reply to You would have been part ...

The French Revolution was largely inspired by the "American" Revolution, so if the latter had failed the ancien regime would have continued, there would have been no French Republic, hence no French Empire, hence no defeat of France at Waterloo.

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The problem with "alternate histories"

by neilb@uk In reply to Waterloo?

Is that historical cause and effect is about as chaotic as the weather. Slightly more boring, too. My original comment was intended to be tongue in cheek and I expected to be answered by "up yours, Brit", not a dissection of my alternate hiostory's credibility.

I wouldn't have said "inspired" - except for some of the middle classes, ut there weren't many of them - as the massive French National debt crisis and a demonstrably unfair and outdated tax system were the main causes. But, whatever... Nobody else bothered to follow your example - except the Poles and Catherine the Great bitchslapped them bigtime!

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Geez, neilb, I'm sorry!

by CharlieSpencer In reply to Waterloo?

"Up yours, Brit!"

There. All better now?

Harry Turtledove writes very entertaining alternate histories. Keeping in touch with the holiday theme, his 3-book 'Atlantis' series starts with the discovery not of America by the Spanish but Atlantis by the French.

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It was more the Canadian native Indians though

by aidemzo_adanac In reply to Great Britain

Savages supported the British Imperial Army in defending Canada's borders, often without a fight from US soldiers who really weren't as organized and well trained at that time. It was the savages that scared most US soldiers and their leaders off, even when Canada's offense was severely outnumbered by US troops.

In three separate attempts to acquire Canadian land, the USA fled, eventually opening up shop to Canadians who wanted to cross the border and illegally bring goods back to Canada, (not much has changed in that respect). The problem was not so much Tecumseh but the company he kept and the rumours that preceded them.

Fighting the unknown enemy was not in most American soldier's best interests and they just didn't want to have anything to do with it.

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