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Has the TSA gone too far?

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Has the TSA gone too far?

maxwell edison
Pilots and passengers rail at new airport patdowns

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AA55S20101111?ref=nf

Pilots being patted down? What's that all about? Don't many of them carry weapons, themselves? And if anyone was in an ideal position to destroy a plane, it would be the person in the cockpit!

Patting down children? Anyone else would be arrested!

I'm really tired of all these reactionary policies of the TSA.

Personally speaking, I quit flying years ago. I've taken quite a number of 600 mile trips, a couple of 750, a couple of 850, and one pushing 1,000, and I drove each time.
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    NickNielsen Moderator

    than this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhba64FEFdc

    There's much to be said for originality.

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    NickNielsen Moderator

    One of the obvious things after 9/11 (at least to me) was that aircraft hijackings were now useless as a terrorist weapon. One of the lessons of 9/11 for airline passengers was "These people plan to kill us and don't care if they die. Fight back."

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    AnsuGisalas

    Over here there are limits to the indignities people will put up with.
    I remember once, an official waved me over after the security check, showed me their newest trick: rubbing a special tissue on my shoe, then lighting it afire in a spectral analysis mcguffin of some sort. I came up clean.
    That was seven or eight years ago, right after that dork tried to light up his sneakers mid-flight.

    Here the objective is the most security that can be had, without sacrifing too much of people's freedom and/or dignity and/or convenience. "too much" being subject to local variation.

    But with the TSA the decision appears to have been left to officials trying to pre-empt getting blamed for the inevitable.

    Stuff happens. Trying to positively pre-empt it is a recipe for afflucktion.

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    AnsuGisalas

    in the forest, killing someone who didn't hear it coming... who will have liability?

    I don't see how the taxi company will have liability, unless shooting passengers is part of their policy, either as a rule of thumb, or as a rarer measure. Which it might be, of course, you didn't say.

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    deepsand

    And, you will, no doubt, observe and compare such with the results realized.

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    TonytheTiger

    you don't yet KNOW the results.

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    deepsand

    Depends on the degree to which the results are deemed satisfactory by said wielder.

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    Deadly Ernest

    There are some simple anti-terrorist counter measures that would make the whole most TSA operation not needed. The main concern is someone taking over an aircraft, then make that impossible.

    Call all commercial aircraft in for retrofitting of new arrangements while passing laws to change how new ones are built.

    1. In all aircraft have the cockpit include a toilet and a small area for drinks and food.

    1.a. In new aircraft have the cockpit designed for the flight crew to enter by a different exterior door and have no physical contact with the passengers and cabin crew possible. The wall between to be air tight and armoured.

    1.b. In older craft retrofit with armour plate on the wall between and replace the door with a high security lock door. Also construct a toilet and food area in the cockpit area. The pilots are locked in by ground crew before the plane loads, and they get released after it's emptied.

    2. The pilots can talk to the passengers and crew by making announcements, but the cabin crew can not talk direct to the pilots. The only communication being to hit a button that triggers an alert saying there is an emergency and they must land at the nearest airport that will take them. Only options being one button for a medical emergency and one for any other type of emergency.
    .................

    This all means that no one can take a plane over in flight, thus eliminating the ability to hijack the plane. The TSA would still need to check luggage etc for bombs but taking control of the passenger area would do them no good at all. So the passengers only need the old style basic checks.

    I don't expect this to happen as it puts a lot of the responsibility and expense back on the airline companies and in the corporate run USA the company owned Senators and Congressmen will never approve the companies having to pay to make their systems safe.

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    NexS

    Your reactionary policy to the extensive security policies are also a little over-the-top, in my opinion.

    There are a few good reasons to bump up security in air travel specifically. Reasons such as the fact that they carry a great many people, and so, all those persons' have paid for a safe travel. Of course, moral obligation plays a role, but court is based on legal obligation.

    Keeping citizens, visitors and other people safe should be something everyone cares about.

    <i>Patting down children? Anyone else would be arrested!</i>
    I have two viewpoints on this;
    1: Complaints about this from the parents side give me the sh!ts. It leads into the new(ish) directive regarding parents not being allowed to film/photograph their children during junior league sporting and community events. It has gone far too far.

    2: Patting down children would be exactly the same as patting down adults. It has no sexual orientation; it is merely a security measure. What's good for one should be just as good for the other.

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    santeewelding

    As much as I appreciate the many other things you say and have said over time, I don't appreciate your screwed up plural possessive, "...persons' have paid for a safe travel."

    "All" of them, you said. That includes me, doesn't it?.

    I have never paid for "a safe travel". I have paid fare only for the chance of transport instead of having to walk or swim. "Safe" was always a crapshoot, far as I was concerned; much like my next, hoped-for heartbeat.

    You belong to a club, or something, that has safety all sewed up, and I never heard about it?

    I go with Max on this one. Besides, it's been turned too much into an application to fly. I quit applying for anything years ago.

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    NexS

    I don't have the experience to comment on what happens in the US airports, and so I don't know what you expect from an airline.
    But should something happen en route and you were killed, someone will ultimately be blamed. It is always someone's fault.
    Such is life.

    If a taxi driver shot you while you were in his vehicle, would the taxi company not be liable?

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    santeewelding

    Would I be around to give a shilt?

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    NexS

    Rather, you or I, or he or she, they or them.

    Whether or not you were around, liability will always be present.
    That is, provided said incident does not destroy humanity.

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    santeewelding

    Was another of those appreciated comments I take pleasure in reading.

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    AnsuGisalas

    in the forest, killing someone who didn't hear it coming... who will have liability?

    I don't see how the taxi company will have liability, unless shooting passengers is part of their policy, either as a rule of thumb, or as a rarer measure. Which it might be, of course, you didn't say.

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    maxwell edison

    .... is not the same as patting down an adult.

    Let me guess? You have no kids. Nor have you ever worked with kids. I've had/done both.

    And if you do have kids, if you would allow an adult stranger to pat down your child....... well, 'nuff said, except I wouldn't allow such a thing.

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    NexS

    It is exactly the same. The only difference is the size of the child's body.

    Also, a child could smuggle aboard any number of object just as easily as an adult, if not - more so.

    If the pat-search of a child is inappropriate for a child, then it is inappropriate for an adult.

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    maxwell edison

    Please answer that question.