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  • #2252962

    How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

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    by absolutely ·

    How long does etiquette dictate that it is a ‘meeting’ instead?

    There are no offices or walls, even for the top managers in my building. Four clowns with exceptionally loud voices insist on holding conversations at full volume, all day long, about every triviality of their ‘work’ and personal lives. How long is it reasonable to consult, and after how long should they adjourn to a meeting room?

    There is never any shortage of meeting rooms in this building, just inconsiderate, obnoxious unprofessionals.

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    • #2491177

      Another thing…

      by absolutely ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      The plethora of meeting rooms include ethernet connections in each, full access to the corporate network, and all of the offenders have notebook workstations. There is just no excuse, and no explanation except for being desperate for attention.

      • #2507054

        You are correct

        by w2ktechman ·

        In reply to Another thing…

        There really is no excuse except that their manager is failing to inform them. That is why you need to complain to your manager, and state that distractions cause a lot of delays, and quality of work can suffer.

        Then ask your manager if it is OK to print up signs and/or a memo for the area. If worst comes to worst, go to HR and explain the problem, they will certainly contact these employees managers and inform of the prblem. Sometimes it takes a complaint on ones desk to decide to address issues.

    • #2491175

      Interesting Problem

      by w2ktechman ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      What we do is post signs all over stating to be quiet and considerate of everyone working in the area.
      These are in the aisles every 8-10 cubicles.

      If someone is constantly interrupting the work of others, such as these people, then it should be brought to their managers attention. Their manager should ask them to keep it down, or keep their personal conversations to a minimum while in the work area. Then bring up that they can use a meeting room if they need to converse.

      Other thoughts would be to get them onto instant messaging for those short outbursts and trivial matters.

    • #2491161

      Money

      by dawgit ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      Money talks. Lost business, loss in productivity, increase in absences, do to the noise and non-work related distractions. That costs companies Money. If you could find a way to demonstrate that, it would certainly get managements attention. (It sees they all like to make money for some reason)
      -Or- get some noise canceling earphones. :p
      -d
      edited, oh just because….

      • #2507050

        Headphones

        by willjamr ·

        In reply to Money

        dawgit wrote: “-Or- get some noise canceling earphones.”

        I tried that at work once. Unfortunately they were designed to pass voice. 🙁

        • #2508425

          My favorite solution, too.

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Headphones

          Sometimes I forget them, but they really are wonderful.

      • #2508713

        The top managers want this to happen

        by breadtrk ·

        In reply to Money

        that is why you are in an open office environment. Get with the program or get some skillz so that you can have a closed office. I swear, some folks would complain if the toilets were gold plated but not heated.

        • #2508698

          I think… you’re one of them

          by van_eric ·

          In reply to The top managers want this to happen

          No manager(s) wants their office to be like fish market. Individual skills is not a passes to be exempted from the bad environment. Unprofessional, unethical and immoral personnel(s) should be placed in the box with out ventilation and let us see if they will not complain. The magic word here is “RESPECT”. And as a general rule “Do unto others what you don’t want to do unto you”. I swear, those stubborn guys are the number one obnoxious in this kind of environment. Be factual.

        • #2508697

          The top managers want this to happen

          by mleeseberg ·

          In reply to The top managers want this to happen

          Most of the ‘open office’ situations I have found are due to cost considerations or people who design the space without really understanding what happens there, such as the level of noise generated by an office full of people trying to do phone support next to programmers who would like some quiet.

      • #2503812

        Fire with Fire

        by Anonymous ·

        In reply to Money

        Just start commenting on their conversation
        Generally mocking it and making them realize how trivial they are being.If they have a clue they will be quiet. Never go to a manager, unless the culture at your work dictates it…. what are we three?
        Thank GOD I no longer work for a corporation

        • #2496008

          Use a recording device

          by ian gregory ·

          In reply to Fire with Fire

          I had a similar problem when I worked in a large “open-plan” office, my solution ws to take in a small personal battery-powered tape recorder, then to record these individuals.

          This tape was then take to my manager, who then took me to the mager of these individuals – result, no more noise!

    • #2491139

      Direct action gets results really quickly

      by drowningnotwaving ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      Water pistols.

      Don’t do any real damage – get small “soft spray” and resist the urge to include ink in the mix (and don’t use the nitro/solar/nuke-powered versions some imps seem to have these days – Heck, you might not like your marketing or sales director that much but removing his left eye-ball could be interpreted as an over-reaction).

      What will happen?

      You’ll get in arguments. You’ll get verbally abused. You’ll get a “please explain” from the boss or bossette.

      But most importantly you’ll get your win in under two working days. Guaranteed.

      Alternately of course you’ll get sacked really quickly in which case you just found out your true value and position.

      It’s a solution that works on many levels.

    • #2491012

      Evidently the manager doesn’t care.

      by stress junkie ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      That’s why I hate managers. The manager either does already know or should already know about this. Therefore the lack of management intervention so far says that you are SOL.

      In a situation like that I just like to imagine taking an oak axe handle and firmly applying it to the skulls of the offenders. Unfortunately daydreaming is as far as you can go with that solution.

    • #2508157

      Had this issue a few years ago

      by hutch it mgr ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      I went through this a few years ago and the method used was direct communication to the individuals explaining what the issue was, how it could be corrected, use a conference room, and why it was distruptive. Our team was about 22 people all in a bull-pen style cube arrangement. We had 2 offenders of the speakerphone and loud discussions of little or no relevance to work. Several of the team members brought of the issue in open discussion during a team meeting. No one was singled out during the meeting however, the manager of the team was aware who the offenders were and talked to them individually after the meeting. The rule became speakerphone conversations had to be taken in a conference room, and any conversation longer that 3 minutes was to move to a non-work area, either a conference room or break area.

    • #2508046

      A lateral approach?

      by ashby ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      Try meeting with your manager and explain that you can’t get your work done because the work area has become a discussion room and ask him/her if you can compensate by using a small conference room to work in.

      You’ll either get a nice little “office” of your own or the manager will fix the problem.

      • #2495173

        ….or not.

        by qantm ·

        In reply to A lateral approach?

        …or the manager will acknowledge the situation and ignore it. leaving you exactly where you were from the start as has happened to me.

    • #2507134

      I empathise

      by wamari ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      Truly your colleagues are being unprofessional. My take is that you need to have a discussion probably on mail on norms within working areas such as yours. I have tried it and normally there is little results but you have to keep at it and things will change albeit gradually. The norms should be discussed openly (e-mail) and could cover a wider range of issues include mobile-phone, guests, eating and many other issues.

      Good luck

    • #2508674

      Dive Right In

      by johnnysacks ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      I picture myself jumping in every time at the most inopportune moment and steering the discussion so far off track that they start avoiding me the plague.

      • #2495172

        Not a bad idea

        by qantm ·

        In reply to Dive Right In

        Hehe.. this is probably the funniest and most interesting solution i’ve seen here so far.

    • #2508662

      Similar problem

      by rogiem ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      We have a cube farm here as well and while there are only four of us, we also have the local printer. We all try to keep it down, but it’s not always easy. I have had to stop a conversation and shush my co-workers a time or two. I always appologise after, but I figure I’m paid to get work done, not be popular. I’ve also warned them that I would do this and told them to feel free to do it as well. You get a shock the first couple of times it happens, but unless the company plans on springing for higher walls, we’re pretty much SOL.

      • #2508803

        Dude you’re screwed

        by cathy.odom ·

        In reply to Similar problem

        You’re damned if you damned if you don’t.

        The best non-confronational way is to get an ipod and keep the music up in your headphones.

        Other than that, you’ll get in trouble for complaining.

        Best bet: jump up when they’re yacking, walk over there, and take a break, yack with them. Get others to do so. Maybe if 20 or 100 of you are doing it, management will come over. Then there will be too many of you to censure and get in trouble so then management will post signs up to be quiet, and you won’t be the bad guy.

    • #2508744

      TALK TO YOUR BOSS

      by balthor ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      They are not doing their work.Beware after this one it’s the thermostat.

      • #2508728

        NEVER talk to your boss before …

        by drowningnotwaving ·

        In reply to TALK TO YOUR BOSS

        … you have spoken directly with the people doing the chatting.

        Unless you want to be tagged as the office whinging bitch.

        If you give them the opportunity to sort it out themselves, and they choose NOT to change, then you can go hard.

      • #2504231

        RE: Talk to your Boss….

        by Anonymous ·

        In reply to TALK TO YOUR BOSS

        It IS my Boss

    • #2503904

      I’m amazed that the managers aren’t annoyed

      by av . ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      They must hear it too. Its really up to whoever handles HR to remind people that there are limits to how long and how loud they should be talking in an environment like that. Unfortunately, people like the four clowns have no sense of anyone else but themselves.

      Maybe you could discreetly mention it to the HR person. You might get some relief.

    • #2503715

      Cubicles are the issue…

      by it cowgirl ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      Either the company is too cheap to build all offices or wants the open crush of people. My theory is easy, if you put me and others in a cubicle then the noise is a by product of cubicles, so tough it. I have a loud fan, I talk loud on the phone, I yell over the cubies to my work mates…
      (Heck even the boss yells from his office to ask us all questions…)
      If the company wants less noise, they can build offices.

      Hence programmers should not be sitting in the middle of us…they need quiet!

    • #2496023

      With apologies to Monty python…

      by jfowler ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      “..Oh Well, they can’t help it, can they? So I’d just kill ’em.”

    • #2496019

      I Wear My Headphones

      by frankstaheli ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      While we’re waiting (for a year and counting) for a remodeled office space, we have a conference room for an office space, with most people sitting around a table. The worst is when 2-3 of them entertain a conference call–IN MY OFFICE!!!

      Most of the day I wear my headphones, listening to music or talk radio. Now everyone knows that to get my attention, they must do something visual.

    • #2495941

      Noise blocking earmuffs

      by wuchak ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      You could try noise blocking earmuffs like those used by construction workers or shooters. They are available in low profile designs for about $10. Stay away from the electronic ones as they are designed to let voices through.

      • #2504226

        headphones not the answer

        by mooseduds ·

        In reply to Noise blocking earmuffs

        Headphones just block the sound for one individual (if they can even use them – for some of us any kind of headphone is painful after 20-30 minutes). The problem is failure of those 4 to even consider there are others around them trying to work. We have the same situation where I work, and we have offices. But folks congregate in the hallway and talk loudly. Signs and reminders work – for about a day. Sometimes slamming the door helps… just for that group, then another one comes along ….

    • #2495314

      If all else fails, get management approval to have music

      by deadly ernest ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      playing through the office, at a level to kill the conversations if separated by more than two work stations. They’ll either stop, or get sore voices from having to shout.

    • #2495154

      Good luck with that…

      by miken ·

      In reply to How long is a ‘conversation’ in an open office/floorplan?

      Rather than complaining to this blog, which will definitely not help resolve YOUR issue. You might try talking with your co-workers like a true professional. Communicationg your frustrations in a professional, adult manner might produce surprising results.

      Or based on the tone of your blog you could try this – voice your expectations of workplace professionalism to the “four clowns”. Make them aware you expect professionals to be hyper aware (and psychically aware) of the potential negative impact impromptu “all day long” hallway conversations have on YOUR ability to work.

      If this approach doesn’t wok you can always follow the suggesstions posted to run and tattle to management. Both should work. Good luck with that.

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