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Hussein the Horrible -- or was he?

By jardinier ·
For the past two years there has been continuous talk about the "thousands" -- or whatever large figure appeals most to you -- of Iraqi citizens murdered by their despotic leader.

Well this item I picked up in the news kind of refutes that. [The article was dated December 5, 2004]. At least it raises questions as to how murderous was he?

China carried out almost 90 per cent of the world's executions last year, putting at least 5,000 people to death, according to an activist group campaigning to end capital punishment.

China is one of 60 countries that still have the death penalty, the Rome-based group Hands Off Cain said in a report issued yesterday. It said other governments carried out more than 500 executions

Amnesty International said in April China put 726 people to death last year - nearly two-thirds of all executions reported. But it said that figure was based on incomplete official information and the true number was believed to be much higher.

Iran had the second-highest number of known executions worldwide last year, with 154, according to Hands Off Cain. It said that as a proportion of its smaller population, the Islamic Republic "applies capital punishment just as much as China".

Iraq executed at least 113 people before former president Saddam Hussein's government was toppled on April 9 last year, the group said. The death penalty was suspended during the US administration but restored by the interim government of the Prime Minister, Iyad Allawi.

NOTE: I cannot of course personally account for the discrepancy in the figures for China quoted by "Hands off Cain" and Amnesty International.

But the figure quoted for Iraq for the portion of the year before Hussein was toppled from power seems relatively small compared with the assumed number of citizens that were executed under his regime.

Perhaps someone else might be able to come up with some more precise figures.

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well....

by jkaras In reply to Hussein the Horrible -- o ...

We will never know just how many people he killed, but finding mass graves and torture chambers speaks volumes. Not to mention eloborate palaces with complete decadence, massive feasts at all palaces to confuse would be assassins while his people starved, had no clean water, no schools, and stealing a ton of the oil money rather than investing in his people, so no, no brownie points from me or others. Is the news sensationalized, do we really know the facts or just the facts that are given for adgendas or improved sales? Their is no true objective journalism in todays world, no triuth, just distorted lies. But I tend to at least believe that he was the monster he has been portrayed as, there are just too many facts.

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Iraqi Kurdistan

by Montgomery Gator In reply to well....

Also, remember the untold thousands of Kurds that were killed by poison gas over the years in Iraqi Kurdistan under Saddam Hussein.

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Formal Executions

by BFilmFan In reply to Hussein the Horrible -- o ...

I believe the distinction we are discussing is the difference between a legal sentence of death and genocide. While some of these courts have no moral, ethical or legal standing in my view, there is still a difference between the two types of deaths.

In the 20th Century, it has been estimated that over 169,202,000 citizens were murdered by fellow citizens or their governments. prior to the 20-th Century, it is estimated that 133,147,000 were murdered.
(see R.J. Rummel's 'Death by Government,' Transaction Publishers, 1994 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1560009276/qid=1104329247/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-4542918-5227955?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 for more details and his interesting website http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM and the University of Memphis' site http://www.people.memphis.edu/~genocide/)

Hussein, Pinchot, Kim Jong Il, and many others have a great deal to answer for. Unfortunately, history teaches that many of them will never pay for their crimes.

"Truth will come to light; murder cannot be hid long."
----Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice

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Rewriting history already?

by awfernald In reply to Hussein the Horrible -- o ...

Seems like the original source of this may be attempting to "lessen" the crimes of Hussein down to more "acceptable" levels, except that (as BFilm pointed out) there is a difference between government executions and mass executions/murders.

How many people died in those Kurdish towns that "chemical Ali" gassed in years past? and... who ordered it to happen? How many years has Hussein been performing mass murders/executions?

The source quoted says that "over the last couple of years", however, Hussein had been in office for the last 15? 20 years? Were his favorite targets already wiped out by the time anyone got around to questioning his methods?

Were the executions for the last couple of years simply people that offended him (or one of his high-ranking family members) for some minor reason?

Also... does it matter? What were those executions in the last couple of years for? Someone stealing food to feed their family? Someone who had the nerve to say that "there must be a better way!" too close to spying ears?

Hussein the horrible? I think the answer is a definite "YES"!

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If Hussein has a legitimate trial

by jardinier In reply to Hussein the Horrible -- o ...

then I would hope that evidence of ALL his nasty deeds will come to light.

But this will probably have to depend to a large degree which of his dastardly acts were recorded.

So if he allegedly (using courtroom terminology) had people put to death for trivial reasons, this could not be proven unless records were kept of all the executions.

Will indiviual Iraqi citizens be called as witnesses to the events which were not recorded?

If friends and relatives of ALL his victims were called to give evidence when there was no record of the facts, the trial would last two years.

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Actually it would most likely last longer

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to If Hussein has a legitima ...

But what would be the Rules of Evidence applied? Right now at this point in time he has been tried, sentenced, convinced and put to death by the media and public opinion based on the very same media who has already tried him.

Unfortunately even though he was a nasty piece of work I very much doubt that all the facts will be brought forward at a trial as far too many important people would be compromised.

Also just why is Saddam such a big story now? What ever happened to Armin, Pol Pot and all the rest of those who where responsible for genocide in their homelands?

All to often we forget what happened yesterday and only apply thought to what is happening today there have been and will continue to be numerous dictators who are as bad as Saddam but never brought to task for their actions.

The bit about his palaces are a fur-fey as every leader in that part of the world is treated that way. I get a great laugh when people talk about just how rich the Queen of England is and want her taxed on all of her assets. I can just see it now Buck House with a "For Sale Sign" in front of it to pay death duties incurred by the Monarchy. NBL these places while being an asset to the Crown are not capable of being sold I can just imagine the public outcry if one of the Palaces was sold away from the Monarchy the reality of the whole thing is that while the Monarchy has use of these lands and buildings they remain the property of the British People who want then to stay exactly where they currently are.

After all they remain a tourist attraction which brings millions of pounds into the British Economy. Just look at the Americans who line up to take photos of the changing of the Guard or any number of other Royal traditions.

Col

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win98 removing about blank as home page

by kvre25 In reply to Actually it would most li ...

How do you remove about blank as the home page?
win98

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Well I'm not quite sure what this is doing here but

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to win98 removing about blan ...

Open Internet Explorer Left Click on Tools then chose Internet Options from the drop down Menu and type in your preferred home page in the box at the Top called Home Page.

If that doesn't work which it should scan your computer for malware with Ad aware or Spy bot Search & Destroy or you can try a few of the programs from the following URLs

http://www.intermute.com/spysubtract/cwshredder_download.html

or

http://www.spywareinfo.com/~merijn/downloads.html

I do not know if it still applies but remove any spaces which may have been inserted in the posted URLs

Col

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forcing home page problem

by kvre25 In reply to Well I'm not quite sure w ...

Thank you for responding - sorry that I posted inadvertently in the wrong area. Have been running ad aware, spybot, cwshredder, etc. several times to no avail.

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Well as a last resort

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to forcing home page problem

Remove the HDD from the computer and use it as a secondary drive or put it into a USB Caddy and then run Spy Bot, Ad Aware and CW Shredder also there is a trial version of Spy Subtract that seems to work quite effectively.

Of course this will require a different computer or even the same computer with Windows loaded to a different HDD but if you have been unable to remove the problem with Windows Running than your only option left to to attempt it without Windows running that way some of the files will not be locked and be possible to either remove or edit.

While it is easier than a reload it is still time consuming. I'll admit it now I'm extremely lazy and I always fit at least 2 HDD to every computer that I build one has Windows on it and the other has all the programs and data so if Windows get toasted you still have your data intact and all you have to do is wipe the Boot Drive and reload Windows and all of your Software it just makes things so much easier.

Col

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