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I decided to try some Distros in MS VM 2007, the results are not impressive

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I decided to try some Distros in MS VM 2007, the results are not impressive

Slayer_
Here is a flash video of me trying to Install Ubuntu and Mandriva onto a VM.


http://www.trevorsarchives.selfip.net/funpics/images/nix%20having%20problems/Why%20nix%20Fails.htm
4mb Flash
----Edit, Looks like Instant Demo crapped out at the point where I try to turn off the distorted Ubuntu, so if you just hear a bunch of clicks and nothing is happening, u can just stop watching.

Please everyone note that I am not attempting to bash Nix. I am however trying to point out that this is a pretty big failure for anyone that wants to try out Nix systems and see if it is right for them. I tried two populour distros, both could not even install, and not for lack of trying. Most of the time, the progress was random. With Ubuntu I actually got all the way into the OS, only to be hurt by crazy resolution and distorted graphics.

I cut the video short as I was never actually able to reproduce the error I was getting in the Mandriva install because it only seems to get far enough to error out, very rarely. Most of the time it just hangs at a black screen.
http://www.trevorsarchives.selfip.net/funpics/images/nix%20having%20problems/MandrivaFailing.JPG

I am also fully aware that these OS's work when used on a real system. However with virtualization becomming so populour, I consider this to be a big problem.


I choose MS VM 2007 because it's what I use for all my other virtualization needs and its free. It is also provided by MS and "usually" works very well. If the Nix distro came with a Virtualization app, as DSL did, I would have used that instead.


In the game of life, first impressions are everything, if a first time user wanted to test if Either of these Nix's was right for him, I doubt he would have left Windows.


Both installs were done using ISO files. I had a Ubuntu CD that I ISO'd for this. The mandriva was downloaded twice, both DVD versions from two different mirriors, then I checked file sizes and opened them in winrar to see if winrar reported unexpected end of archive.
The ubuntu CD in a Physical system works fine, I've even had it installed... Hated it... but it installed none the less.
I have never had Mandriva installed on a physical system.


P.S
Please ignore spelling mistakes
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    CharlieSpencer

    My attempts to use MS virtualization hosts with Linux guest systems have met a variety of problems. I've had much better luck using VMware's free and oddly misnamed Server product. Or try the equally free VMware Player, which allows you to download and run free pre-built virtual machines of many popular distros.

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    Slayer_

    I already have a lot of critical VM's in MS VM, can VMware server be installed along with MS VM?

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    Jaqui

    vmware server is a boot the hardware from the burned disk and install. access from a windows system to administer it via gui.
    [ they say that you can jump through 6 or 7 hoops to get linux administration, from the command line only last time I checked, which I called them on false advertising that windows isn't required before someone pointed me to where in the docs they had that info hidden. ]

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    CharlieSpencer

    VMware Server is a virtualization environment that will run happily along side MS VM. It can be installed under XP or Vista, although I haven't tried it under W2K. That's why I said it was mis-named; it isn't really a server product. It can be administered directly from inside Windows, and no external host or Linux knowledge is needed. Jaqui has mistaken this product for one of VMware's full-scale, production-level virtualization hosts.

    http://www.vmware.com/products/server/

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    Jaqui

    to try a vmware appliance?
    I could install Mandriva 2009 in a vmware setup, and zip that up then post a link for download.

    only need to know three things:
    ram limitations on your system for such
    32 bit or 64 bit?
    size of drive desired in the vm?

    I would do it as an oem install, but if you use the free vmware player I don't think you can install the vmware tools from it.

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    Slayer_

    I know the MS VM installs network drivers and such, what happens if you have two vritualization apps installed? Will one wreck the other?

    I need to keep my MS VM cause I have a lot of VM's set up for my various programming needs. If you watched the Video you probably would have seen many of them such as an XP dev system, a 95 Dev system, a 98 test system, a 2000 test system, an XP Backup server (used if physical server goes down) and an XP test machine.

    If I can safely install both at the same time, then it sounds good :)


    Also you don't gotta make the VM for me, I want to do that myself, how else can I experience Mandriva completely? However it seems the DVD version is just too big to download and get it right, and my DL speed is just too slow.

    If you could rehost it and perhaps rar it into something like 200mb pieces, that would help greatly, especially since Rar will tell you if the archive is incomplete.

    I want to try the latest Mandriva however, not the 2008 one, I only had the 2008 one for use on an older machine... which died recently... A VM on my primary machine should be more than capable.

    My primary is good up to 2.7gb of RAM and 60gb HDD (since you asked :) )

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    Jaqui

    VMware player just runs the pre-built appliance.
    the VMWare machine creates it's own network interface, and wants to install a couple of it's own use networking devices.
    It gives you the option of only vm to vm networking, bridged, to get it's internal network card it's own ip addy from dhcp, and nat.

    so a 2009.x version, not a problem.
    vmware, virtual disk by default is split into 2 gb files. compress-able individually.
    [ specifically for that reason. ]

    only need to have 15 gigs of virtual hard drive, so 16 gigs. [ 2 gig files, makes it easy. ] hmm... I'll have to see if it will work with an expand disk as needed to a max of x gigs for a player to use. Then only the minimum disk needed for the install itself is allocated. [ see I'll be learning something also :) ]

    rar is not well supported on linux, most distros don't include the cli rar tools at all. [ only rar tools for linux are cli ] that "proprietary" software thing. The linux version may not support the splitting an archive into smaller chunks. I know bzip2 format is supported in winrar, and gives better compression than rar itself... have to play around to see how small I can shrink a virtual drive file.

    as far as conflicts with the different vm apps, I don't know, no issues other than resource consumption if to many vms running, with the linux apps, which doesn't include ms vm.

    You didn't say if you wanted a 32 bit or 64 bit version, so a 64 bit vm with a multilib install? [ both 32 and 64 bit apps supported. ]

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    Slayer_

    Cause I seem to be unable to download it without it corrupting cause its so big.

    If you could download it, rar it into smaller pieces and rehost it so i could download it, repiece it backtogether, and burn it to disc, would be swell. I want to install onto an old beater system that has is XP system pretty wrecked.


    If there is a version that can make and use a bootable flash drive, that would be preferable, otherwise the CD version would be required. I wish I could use the DVD version but saddly, beater doesn't have a DVD drive, just CD drive.

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    Jaqui

    checking for latest stable version available.
    I have 2009.0 on my hard drive already.
    if 2009.1 isn't released yet I can install rar and make the 200 MB volumes today.

    nope, 2009.1 not released.

    and I know my 2009 iso is good, I've used it.

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    Jaqui

    me just noticed you wanted the livecd, which has the live installer.

    all mandriva releases will install onto a usb flash drive, but the image files are only the livecd or dvd, they killed of the cd based install.

    not a problem. only take me a couple of hours to grab the 700 mb cd iso.

    one 702 MB KDE4 iso and one 602 GNOME iso.
    I'll make two sets of archives, though both will allow installing the other desktop, and many more, after they are installed on the system.

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    url

    Jaqui

    http://dev.jaqui-greenlees.net/mandriva

    the KDE international version of the livecd Mandriva One for i586 [ their default ] is there.

    The GNOME version is currently rarring up.
    Though GNOME is the same gui as Ubuntu, so I doubt you will like it.

    edit to add:

    GNOME version now there also.

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    Slayer_

    Slow internet speed

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    Jaqui

    to turn off the torrents I'm seeding.. 12 seeds sucked bandwidth.

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    ok

    Jaqui

    just downloaded the trial version of rar for linux and read the docs included.
    It will make volume archives and allow volume size to be set.
    [ not something any other archiver I have available will support. ]

    and I tested on a vmware virtual disk file [ empty of os ] a 2 gig file compressed to 237 KB using bz2 compression. but it was only a marker for content not in the virtual drive file, so not really a surprise. ]

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    Slayer_

    On the Mandriva install, I suspect the ISO is downloaded bad.

    The Ubuntu install, was completely successful when done from my laptop and using safe graphics mode. So thats a gold star for Ubuntu. The VM itself wasn't satisfactory however, it did not want to capture the mouse, and keyboarding in Ubuntu kind of had me stumped, I eventually mashed enough keys to get the menus to open up... But a successful test none the less. Also Ubuntu has a built in CD verification, considering that the primary distrobution network for Nix is on the internet, this is a really good thing to have.

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    seanferd

    Download VMWare Player.

    Download the generic live cd vm (this site has a lot of other interesting stuff as well).
    http://www.vmwarez.com/2006/02/livecd-player-virtual-machine.html

    Follow the simple instructions & go!

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    t0ken

    You're using MS VM 2007


    Go here, be happy:

    http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

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    Re:

    Jon

    Personally, I have found that Virtual Box is a great free-ware product for virtualization. MS Virtual PC has limitations, and from experiences testing applications and different OS with in the environment the software does not meet the expectations set forth by VMware or Virtual Box. Agreeing with most of the other points discussed previous to mine, VMware would be an improvement to the existing configuration you are using. Also might I suggest creating a 20GB or so partition and allow grub to be the default boot loader so you can dual boot. Another choice would be to make multiple partitions on an external hard drive to boot from, as long as the system you are using has an USB boot enabled BIOS, I was not sure you were using an aged machine or not for this. I would take the external hard drive choice and just test everything within it, it allows you to take the system with you anywhere.

  • +
    0 Votes
    CharlieSpencer

    My attempts to use MS virtualization hosts with Linux guest systems have met a variety of problems. I've had much better luck using VMware's free and oddly misnamed Server product. Or try the equally free VMware Player, which allows you to download and run free pre-built virtual machines of many popular distros.

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    0 Votes
    Slayer_

    I already have a lot of critical VM's in MS VM, can VMware server be installed along with MS VM?

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    0 Votes
    Jaqui

    vmware server is a boot the hardware from the burned disk and install. access from a windows system to administer it via gui.
    [ they say that you can jump through 6 or 7 hoops to get linux administration, from the command line only last time I checked, which I called them on false advertising that windows isn't required before someone pointed me to where in the docs they had that info hidden. ]

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    0 Votes
    CharlieSpencer

    VMware Server is a virtualization environment that will run happily along side MS VM. It can be installed under XP or Vista, although I haven't tried it under W2K. That's why I said it was mis-named; it isn't really a server product. It can be administered directly from inside Windows, and no external host or Linux knowledge is needed. Jaqui has mistaken this product for one of VMware's full-scale, production-level virtualization hosts.

    http://www.vmware.com/products/server/

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    0 Votes
    Jaqui

    to try a vmware appliance?
    I could install Mandriva 2009 in a vmware setup, and zip that up then post a link for download.

    only need to know three things:
    ram limitations on your system for such
    32 bit or 64 bit?
    size of drive desired in the vm?

    I would do it as an oem install, but if you use the free vmware player I don't think you can install the vmware tools from it.

    +
    0 Votes
    Slayer_

    I know the MS VM installs network drivers and such, what happens if you have two vritualization apps installed? Will one wreck the other?

    I need to keep my MS VM cause I have a lot of VM's set up for my various programming needs. If you watched the Video you probably would have seen many of them such as an XP dev system, a 95 Dev system, a 98 test system, a 2000 test system, an XP Backup server (used if physical server goes down) and an XP test machine.

    If I can safely install both at the same time, then it sounds good :)


    Also you don't gotta make the VM for me, I want to do that myself, how else can I experience Mandriva completely? However it seems the DVD version is just too big to download and get it right, and my DL speed is just too slow.

    If you could rehost it and perhaps rar it into something like 200mb pieces, that would help greatly, especially since Rar will tell you if the archive is incomplete.

    I want to try the latest Mandriva however, not the 2008 one, I only had the 2008 one for use on an older machine... which died recently... A VM on my primary machine should be more than capable.

    My primary is good up to 2.7gb of RAM and 60gb HDD (since you asked :) )

    +
    0 Votes
    Jaqui

    VMware player just runs the pre-built appliance.
    the VMWare machine creates it's own network interface, and wants to install a couple of it's own use networking devices.
    It gives you the option of only vm to vm networking, bridged, to get it's internal network card it's own ip addy from dhcp, and nat.

    so a 2009.x version, not a problem.
    vmware, virtual disk by default is split into 2 gb files. compress-able individually.
    [ specifically for that reason. ]

    only need to have 15 gigs of virtual hard drive, so 16 gigs. [ 2 gig files, makes it easy. ] hmm... I'll have to see if it will work with an expand disk as needed to a max of x gigs for a player to use. Then only the minimum disk needed for the install itself is allocated. [ see I'll be learning something also :) ]

    rar is not well supported on linux, most distros don't include the cli rar tools at all. [ only rar tools for linux are cli ] that "proprietary" software thing. The linux version may not support the splitting an archive into smaller chunks. I know bzip2 format is supported in winrar, and gives better compression than rar itself... have to play around to see how small I can shrink a virtual drive file.

    as far as conflicts with the different vm apps, I don't know, no issues other than resource consumption if to many vms running, with the linux apps, which doesn't include ms vm.

    You didn't say if you wanted a 32 bit or 64 bit version, so a 64 bit vm with a multilib install? [ both 32 and 64 bit apps supported. ]

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    0 Votes
    Slayer_

    Cause I seem to be unable to download it without it corrupting cause its so big.

    If you could download it, rar it into smaller pieces and rehost it so i could download it, repiece it backtogether, and burn it to disc, would be swell. I want to install onto an old beater system that has is XP system pretty wrecked.


    If there is a version that can make and use a bootable flash drive, that would be preferable, otherwise the CD version would be required. I wish I could use the DVD version but saddly, beater doesn't have a DVD drive, just CD drive.

    +
    0 Votes
    Jaqui

    checking for latest stable version available.
    I have 2009.0 on my hard drive already.
    if 2009.1 isn't released yet I can install rar and make the 200 MB volumes today.

    nope, 2009.1 not released.

    and I know my 2009 iso is good, I've used it.

    +
    0 Votes
    Jaqui

    me just noticed you wanted the livecd, which has the live installer.

    all mandriva releases will install onto a usb flash drive, but the image files are only the livecd or dvd, they killed of the cd based install.

    not a problem. only take me a couple of hours to grab the 700 mb cd iso.

    one 702 MB KDE4 iso and one 602 GNOME iso.
    I'll make two sets of archives, though both will allow installing the other desktop, and many more, after they are installed on the system.

    +
    0 Votes

    url

    Jaqui

    http://dev.jaqui-greenlees.net/mandriva

    the KDE international version of the livecd Mandriva One for i586 [ their default ] is there.

    The GNOME version is currently rarring up.
    Though GNOME is the same gui as Ubuntu, so I doubt you will like it.

    edit to add:

    GNOME version now there also.

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    0 Votes
    Slayer_

    Slow internet speed

    +
    0 Votes
    Jaqui

    to turn off the torrents I'm seeding.. 12 seeds sucked bandwidth.

    +
    0 Votes

    ok

    Jaqui

    just downloaded the trial version of rar for linux and read the docs included.
    It will make volume archives and allow volume size to be set.
    [ not something any other archiver I have available will support. ]

    and I tested on a vmware virtual disk file [ empty of os ] a 2 gig file compressed to 237 KB using bz2 compression. but it was only a marker for content not in the virtual drive file, so not really a surprise. ]

    +
    0 Votes
    Slayer_

    On the Mandriva install, I suspect the ISO is downloaded bad.

    The Ubuntu install, was completely successful when done from my laptop and using safe graphics mode. So thats a gold star for Ubuntu. The VM itself wasn't satisfactory however, it did not want to capture the mouse, and keyboarding in Ubuntu kind of had me stumped, I eventually mashed enough keys to get the menus to open up... But a successful test none the less. Also Ubuntu has a built in CD verification, considering that the primary distrobution network for Nix is on the internet, this is a really good thing to have.

    +
    0 Votes
    seanferd

    Download VMWare Player.

    Download the generic live cd vm (this site has a lot of other interesting stuff as well).
    http://www.vmwarez.com/2006/02/livecd-player-virtual-machine.html

    Follow the simple instructions & go!

    +
    0 Votes
    t0ken

    You're using MS VM 2007


    Go here, be happy:

    http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

    +
    0 Votes

    Re:

    Jon

    Personally, I have found that Virtual Box is a great free-ware product for virtualization. MS Virtual PC has limitations, and from experiences testing applications and different OS with in the environment the software does not meet the expectations set forth by VMware or Virtual Box. Agreeing with most of the other points discussed previous to mine, VMware would be an improvement to the existing configuration you are using. Also might I suggest creating a 20GB or so partition and allow grub to be the default boot loader so you can dual boot. Another choice would be to make multiple partitions on an external hard drive to boot from, as long as the system you are using has an USB boot enabled BIOS, I was not sure you were using an aged machine or not for this. I would take the external hard drive choice and just test everything within it, it allows you to take the system with you anywhere.