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  • #2326650

    Is hiring just a popularity contest?

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    by debate ·

    Tell us if you think the hiring process is just a popularity contest, as featured in Monday’s Career Advice e-newsletter. Do you think companies interview with profit in mind? What experiences do you have with interviewing at companies that focus less on profit and more on “popularity”?

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    • #3593984

      Comments

      by bweaver ·

      In reply to Is hiring just a popularity contest?

      Hi,

      I am a little confused now. For several months I have been reading your article’s and they have all been very consistent regarding the approach one should take when career searching; until to day that is. Your comment of “Are companies actually interviewing candidates with profit in mind? I’d guess that relatively few are” says that by following your previous advice one would be limiting their odds of success to those relatively few companies that hire with profit in mind. And that applying your methodology to a company that does not hire with profit in mind would only yield results if the candidate also had a personality that meshed with the company. It sounds like one would be better off to play the odds and apply for a position based on personality.
      Am I missing something?

      • #3593233

        Theory vs. Reality

        by windrider ·

        In reply to Comments

        Souds like you are mixing THEORY described in the media or by a consultant with REALITY. Always a dangerous predicament.

        No matter how accurate a model is, it departs from reality some of the time.

        The best way to tell how good a model is ,is to have performance statistics. Metrics provide a factual basis upon which we can base important decisions.

    • #3593971

      Is hiring process a popularity contest?

      by jlutz ·

      In reply to Is hiring just a popularity contest?

      I think it is to some degree, and I have no problem with it. Yes, a company is in business to make a profit. But, if profit was the only concern in running a business every business would be an adult Web site. Just as most business owners prefer to run a business that they enjoy and are comfortable with, most also want to work with folks that meet those same requirements – and they are entitled to do so.

      A good hiring manager looks at both – fit and finanaces.

    • #3593967

      Corporate personalities

      by prefbid ii ·

      In reply to Is hiring just a popularity contest?

      Companies have personalities just the same as people do. To work for a company where you “grate” oneach other is an invitation for disaster no matter how good you are or how “focused” you claim to be in searching for profits.

      Sure, profit is a bottom line driver for the company, but there are many indirect ways to focus on profit without having to show a math formula to prove how you personally add to the bottom line. For example, a job that requires interaction with customers needs to have a calm disposition (I don’t care if it is a fuzzy term). That calm disposition adds to the bottom line, but you will never find a formula out there that says a score of 96 on the (fill in blank) personality test equates to $14,000 to the company bottom line.

      The same goes for a lot of other intangibles like teamwork, organizational skills, leadership, planning, interpersonal skills, etc. However, they are all an important part of how a company makes money.

      • #3593287

        It’s NOT just about money

        by t bowman ·

        In reply to Corporate personalities

        Profit is the bottom line, however, money isn’t everything. Just like in evaluating your current position to determine if you want to take that offer from XYZ, Inc. Sure, the money you make now may be a bit low – but what about the perks? Or the co-workers? If you have a great job, you are more apt to be happy working for less money. The same may be true for companies. They balance their ‘bottom line’ to ‘organizational fit’.
        We’ve all been in jobs where we liked the work/money, but the boss/co-workers made life miserable – so we look elsewhere. Or, we hated the work/money/hours but the boss/co-workers were great to work for/with… so we stay.
        Life and business IS about more than just money and if you DON’T get that… your missing out!

      • #3593281

        Teams

        by michaelpo ·

        In reply to Corporate personalities

        Today, it is all about teams. I am talking about getting work done that generates profit. An incompatible personality can kill a whole team’s production. You must be technically skilled, but that is not enough. The days of putting a tech behind a cube wall, throwing over specs and getting code back are gone.

        • #3593222

          Clear Communications

          by terryn (tbarill ·

          In reply to Teams

          I agree that the days of the anti-social tech guru are gone. As consultants, we constantly send IT folk into a variety of situations, and the feedback we consistently get is that their communications skills added the most value. The ability to communicate *why* a business unit needs or can/cannot get what it wants is critical. Especially in mid to large companies, it’s all about the team and communicating with others.

    • #3593285

      Do you fit?

      by nonsuch ·

      In reply to Is hiring just a popularity contest?

      Most firms I have come across in the UK have a very simple method of recruitment. They lay down a “Personal Specification”. Any applicant who does not meet its requirements is rejected automatically by the HR Department; any person who approaches a member of staff regarding their application is rejected automatically.

      Any one lucky enough to get through to the interview is then assessed on the basis of how well they interview.

      They may not win the popularity stakes but at least they meetthe specifications.

      • #3593248

        European model Vs Real Nerd model

        by lwood ·

        In reply to Do you fit?

        Sounds to me like the UK has embrassed the “politically correct” architecture of management. Which is exactly why your objective should be to circumvent this room full of idiots known as “HR” and try and find the hiring manager within IT. I would rather have a comfortable person out in the front (help desk) answering calls, with the highly technical “nerd-not necessarily PC” in the backgroud resolving the real technical issues of the day.

        HR could be asking for to much-a great technologist with the political touch of an executive secretary”-get real. To obtain a job through HR declares “you are a great politician”-and more than likely you are not a great technologist. A hybrid employee is rare-great management/communication skills in combination with great technical skills-very rare bird.

        Did someone mention something about profit?

      • #3593246

        This IS how it works in the US too

        by kentward ·

        In reply to Do you fit?

        I have read this news letter for what seems like years. The ideas are great, but the real world applications are not there. EVERY job but one I have gotten as and employee is because I knew someone (the one was with Lockheed and the hiring manager went through applications). HOWEVER, the Networking, get to know someone (we actually used to call it Hustling) takes months or years. When you need a job you usually don’t have that much time. ALSO, 99 out of 100 jobs (this is NOT an overstatement)that I have applied for required the Resume through HR. The hiring Manager would not even speak to me. This is with using personal contacts. I have spent months searching door to door person to person.

    • #3593241

      HR is a sleve to the machine.

      by windrider ·

      In reply to Is hiring just a popularity contest?

      Most HR recruiters would be selling/recruiting for an agency if they were confident of their performance. We all know they are not risk takers. Most alibrate hiring by looking at company management, and then try to find candidates the walk and talk like them.

      I get the feeling that most people are hired from a smaller or troubled competitor where they held the same job title. I am sure that HR is full of good intentioned people but are they knowlegeable about company operations. DO they sit in meetings, observe teams and offer solutions or do they sit an wait for a rec.

    • #3593236

      To Make it to the Top of the Pile

      by maxwell edison ·

      In reply to Is hiring just a popularity contest?

      I think that Nick, in his reply, possibly missed what was “between the lines” of the question. The questioner wondered if companies’ hiring process was just a popularity contest, and that they overlooked increasing their profit possibilities by hiring a particular person. Hidden within the question was, what appeared obvious to me, some hard feelings of rejection, which was most likely caused by a bad attitude. I can’t say for sure, but that’s what I suspect.

      I’m not a hiring manager, but I do hire people for my department. (Actually, two departments.) It’s also common for people to start in my department and later move up in the company, eventually transferring to other departments with expanded responsibilities. So I do have to consider long-term possibilities and consequences.

      I enter every interview with one maxim in mind, one I’ve learned to emphasize (with myself) in the hiring process. I hire for attitude and train for skills. I never hire for skills, thinking I can change someone or adapt to what I might consider an undesirable attitude. I would hire a low skilled person with a great attitude over a highly skilled person with a bad attitude every time. It could be thata person who was a 10 on the “skills” scale could help immediately with our profit margin. But if that person has a bad attitude, bad people skills, etc., he would, in the long run, be a drag on others in the company, thus driving the overall profit down.

      (continued..)

      • #3593235

        Top of the pile – continued

        by maxwell edison ·

        In reply to To Make it to the Top of the Pile

        The questioner wondered what it meant when “companies decide if you fit”. He thought it meant “controllable”, and that “they hire you if they like you”, and that “skills have little to do with it”. In this regard, the dynamics of the company is extremely important, and I believe it’s wise for any hiring manager to keep that in mind. We all (should) want to maintain a pleasant working environment, and hiring people who work well together is avital part of the equation. In other words, a happy workforce is a productive workforce. If you think that’s silly, just substitute the word “unhappy”, and imagine what you’ll get. So, unless I’m totally desperate, I will overlook a person who, I would say, is not a good fit.

        My bottom line advice would be this. Be positive, be friendly, and be optimistic. That will help you stand out from the crowd and make it to the “possible” pile. Then show themhow you can help improve the bottom line. That will get you to the “probable” pile. Lastly, show them what you, and you alone, can uniquely give to them. That will get you to the top of the pile.

        Maxwell

        • #3593227

          Reply To: Is hiring just a popularity contest?

          by terryn (tbarill ·

          In reply to Top of the pile – continued

          I think too many HR types focus on filtering resumes — the manager asked for X, Y & Z, and this resume only shows X & Z, therefore they are not qualified to do the job. HR doesn’t understand what we do or what all those funny letters mean. All they can do is match up the requirements to the resume.

          Then there’s the hiring manager. They’ve never been trained in the hiring process, so they don’t really know what to ask. They’re as uncomfortable with the process as the applicant.

          When I hire people, I look for technical competency, communication skills and some sort of connection that tells me they would fit in with the rest of the team. I ask them to tell me about projects they’ve done and things they’ve accomplished. We try toget a sense of what they could bring to the table and if it’s a good match for us — otherwise, we’ll just be going through the whole exercise again in 3 months.

        • #3592850

          Max is right

          by lance.gillis ·

          In reply to Top of the pile – continued

          Well said.

    • #3593191

      Not popularity, personality

      by dlreazor ·

      In reply to Is hiring just a popularity contest?

      The hiring process I have employed for years is a very straight forward, simple and has had more positive than negative results. First, the resume and phone interview (I do both and do not utilize HR) will get over the basic technical side. This also gives me some insight to what kind of personality they possess. If this goes well, the next step is a personal interview with at least one other manager. This setups a predefined scoring system that provides a better detail of their technical skills, but more importantly, will they fit into the group. They can be the best technical person that walked through our door in years, but if their makeup won’t work in my team, sorry, you not going to be my selection. I would rather spend the money on training then dealing with a bad fit or disruptive employee. A happy team is a good team and saves the company money by being a lot more productive then an unhappy team.

    • #3593154

      Popularity isn’t a bad word….

      by admin ·

      In reply to Is hiring just a popularity contest?

      Especially coming from a country espousing Democracy, which has nothing to do with putting the best suited for the actual job folks in office. Popularity is at the core of our system in the US. If you want a public enemy, you make them unpopular. Ifyou want people to chose a certain course, you make it popular. If you want to sell the most software, you never, ever make it the best. You make it the most popular. This is what our whole social order is based on, why should we think it should be different in acquiring a job?

    • #3593119

      Popularity Rules

      by paul g. ·

      In reply to Is hiring just a popularity contest?

      Based on Corcadillos “flag waving”, hiring is nothing but about popularity, he even encourages those he advises to make themselves (those looking for employment) “popular” in the eyes of the hiring managers. He insists that is the “only” way to geta job, ie. by winning the popularity contest with the manager responsible for the actual hiring (not the HRD). “Forget about talking to the HRD folks because they haven’t a clue when it comes to hiring, only the department managers requesting a position have any clue. If you are popular with the department managers, then you will succeed at becoming employed.”

      Skills are largely meaningless, or so says Corcodillos, except those skills which allow the person looking for work, become more popular with the managers responsible for the actual hiring, again, since the HRD folks are largely ‘without a clue’.”

      Corcodillos writes:

      “Yes, I coach both hiring managers and HR people. A lot of them get it.
      They realize that traditional hiring methods don’t work well at all.”

      It would seem that is the way Mr. Corcodillos makes his money and manages to continue to make his money, by convincing the various managers that traditional methods of finding employment are meaningless, thereby encouraging the “popularity contest”, and subsequently “locking” certain managers in to hiring based on “popularity” as opposed to “merit”.

      In other words, a person may have more than 25 years in a career, and if they are not “popular” with the manager responsible for the hiring, then they do not deserve to be hired, only because they “have not spent hours, days and even weeks making themselves popular in the minds of those actually responsible for the actual hiring, regardless of the position in question.

      Again, experience, bacground and skills are largely meaningless, according to Corcodillos, “unless” the person looking for a position has spent lots of

    • #3593118

      Popularity Rules

      by paul g. ·

      In reply to Is hiring just a popularity contest?

      Based on Corcadillos “flag waving”, hiring is nothing but about popularity, he even encourages those he advises to make themselves (those looking for employment) “popular” in the eyes of the hiring managers. He insists that is the “only” way to geta job, ie. by winning the popularity contest with the manager responsible for the actual hiring (not the HRD). “Forget about talking to the HRD folks because they haven’t a clue when it comes to hiring, only the department managers requesting a position have any clue. If you are popular with the department managers, then you will succeed at becoming employed.”

      Skills are largely meaningless, or so says Corcodillos, except those skills which allow the person looking for work, become more popular with the managers responsible for the actual hiring, again, since the HRD folks are largely ‘without a clue’.”

      Corcodillos writes:

      “Yes, I coach both hiring managers and HR people. A lot of them get it.
      They realize that traditional hiring methods don’t work well at all.”

      It would seem that is the way Mr. Corcodillos makes his money and manages to continue to make his money, by convincing the various managers that traditional methods of finding employment are meaningless, thereby encouraging the “popularity contest”, and subsequently “locking” certain managers in to hiring based on “popularity” as opposed to “merit”.

      In other words, a person may have more than 25 years in a career, and if they are not “popular” with the manager responsible for the hiring, then they do not deserve to be hired, only because they “have not spent hours, days and even weeks making themselves popular in the minds of those actually responsible for the actual hiring, regardless of the position in question.

      • #3593089

        Uh, You aren’t bitter…. are you?

        by jack_swayze ·

        In reply to Popularity Rules

        With that attitude, I wouldn’t hire you to clean the dirt off the tires of my car. I wouldn’t care how qualified or experienced you are.

        Any manager hiring you would have to spend all their time defending you to half of the other managers in thecompany.

        Here is the motive to shoot for…. Make yourself the one person the hiring manager has to spend the least amount of time on.

        It doesn’t matter if he likes you, or not. Nor does it really matter if you have the technical savy or experience. If you make the hiring managers life better, or easier, then you are worth having.

        You could be personally distasteful to the manager, as a person, and almost inept, yet if you do what you can and do so such that the manager doesn’t have to spend but 30 minutes each year deciding how much to give you as a raise to keep you, then that is the pinnacle of success Iin a ‘down’ economy).

    • #3593114

      and the winner is….

      by ruralhospmo ·

      In reply to Is hiring just a popularity contest?

      Only unscrupulous managers would ever make a hiring decision based on popularity. I just happen to work for a CIO with questionable ethics. His former employer is our largest competitor. Since being hired, he has successfully “recruited” several of his former co-workers. Some are personal friends and others are acquaintenances that were obviously coached regarding specific information that should be included on their resumes in an effort to hide any obvious impropriety should they be reviewedfor unfair hiring practices. The most disturbing thing is that the positions are posted, resumes are reviewed and before applicants are interviewed, rumors begin circulating that the position has been filled by a former colleague – although the decision is not announced as final until after the interview.
      Though he has made some tremendous improvements throughout or facilities, they are greatly diminished due to his hiring practices. Approximately 50% of our current IT staff is from the samecompeting site and that number is expected to rise.
      I am not certain if his need for popularity among his peers, his desire to hire people that have a mutual background and experience, his inexperience as a manager, or a combination of the above is fueling his hiring decisions. Most people throughout our organization suspect it is his insecurity and desire for popularity that plays a key role in the hiring process which has been detrimental to our image & reputation.

    • #3593093

      NOT popu. Contest NOR Profit, but…..

      by jack_swayze ·

      In reply to Is hiring just a popularity contest?

      Unless you are being hired for an upper-middle-management position, then you will be interviewed by a middle-manager or a 1st line manager.

      These managers aren’t intrested in profit (for the company) nor are they really motivated by who they like. Instead, their motivation is 1) to preserve their position and/or 2) advance up the management chain.

      So, should you stress the ‘profit motive’ for hiring you? Maybe, but only if you can demonstrate how making the company more profitable will result in a promotion for the manager hiring you.

      Should you try to befreind the hiring manager? Nope, unless you are already his friend, no amount of friend-making will work to get you hired.

      So, what should you do? Demonstrate to the hiringmanager that hiring you can advance HIS career.

      Middle, and 1st line, managers KNOW that managers come and go (on the average 4 to 5 times more rapidly than the people working for them). So, their fear is that someone above them will eliminate their position. Their hope is that someone above them will be promoted, which will result in an opening they can fill.

      Don’t believe me? Consider your own work history. Count the number of managers you have had in the last three jobs. I’d bet even money that it is more than eight.

      Bottom line: to get hired, show how you can make it less likely that the hiring manager will get fired.

    • #3592914

      Yes it is

      by idkeidek ·

      In reply to Is hiring just a popularity contest?

      As the guy who asked you said “They want to know if you’re controllable.”. Let me tell you my experiance; I have a working experiance of 8 years in Supporting Hardware / Software in a mid size company. I had 4 interviews for the same exactly position, and after 2nd interview I was never called back. Becoause the interviewers always employed someone new at the market place -fresh graduate, a new guy who dose not really yet know that Boss is not always wright.

    • #3591873

      buzzwords AND controllability/popularity

      by mccready ·

      In reply to Is hiring just a popularity contest?

      Unfortunately, I would have to add buzzwords (and phrases), i.e., telling them what they want to hear, to popularity and controllability as THE MOST IMPACTIVE factors in getting hired. However popularity is the most important. If they don’t like you they will never hire you.

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