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Is It OUTRAGEOUS or is it just ME?

By deICERAY ·
Microsoft has pulled XP off the shelves of every place I've looked for it, online they've pulled all but the OEM versions, meaning you can no longer upgrade to it. I find that outrageous and manipulative and in the opposite spirit of "support". I have never heard of that happening, have you? Do you think it's good business? I haven't looked into Vista at all, as I thought I could continue with XP for a much longer time. What's next? Are we going to have to upgrade all programs? Does it even support older software? Does this irritate you as much as it irritates me?

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Yep

by Tig2 In reply to Is It OUTRAGEOUS or is it ...

Looking into alternatives as I have a family that I support and want them to continue to compute.

We all got new computers before the end of the year. That insures that we have XP and restore options. I have some 98 and NT originals as well and can keep them safe.

I have been exploring Linux as an alternative and having some great luck with that. I have to do some re-thinking but in general, Linux is being a positive experience.

You may be able to find a real XP on ebay. That can be a solution.

I'm just saying "no" to Microsoft. There are too many good alternatives out there.

Incidentally, Vista may not even support your older hardware, much less your older software.

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Yup

by w2ktechman In reply to Yep

I bought a system last year just in case as well. But I do find this a bad descision, trying to force everybody onto an unsupported OEM license or Vista.

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Yep

by CodeBubba In reply to Yep

Tigger,

I'm not "anti" Vista - but after evaluating it on a machine at the office I'm not interested in putting it on my systems - it doesn't solve any problems for me.

I own 5 copies of XP - they're staying under lock and key!

-CB :)

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Nothing New

by TheChas In reply to Is It OUTRAGEOUS or is it ...

This is nothing new.

Microsoft has been pulling old versions off of the shelf with increasing regularity when a new version is released.

Actually, this is good business for Microsoft. It allows them to control the support workload and lets them set a clean end date for support.

Another aspect is the typical consumer. When they go into a store to buy software they typically only buy an older version if it is priced at a deep discount. Most retailers just don't have the shelf space to stock a product that has a limited market.

You can still buy XP and additional licenses. So, you can still upgrade to XP and wait on Vista.

Chas

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You can still buy retail Windows XP here

by TechExec2 In reply to Is It OUTRAGEOUS or is it ...

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You can still buy Windows XP retail versions here (1).


"...Microsoft has pulled XP off the shelves of every place I've looked for it, online they've pulled all but the OEM versions, meaning you can no longer upgrade to it. I find that outrageous and manipulative and in the opposite spirit of "support"..."

It is a waste of time to use reason when it comes to Microsoft. They don't care. No corporation has a conscience, you know. The people who run them might (varies...BillG?...no), but they separate themselves from the corpus corporatus.

Simply put: Microsoft thinks they can do anything they want. They defy EVERYBODY including governments. You don't really think they give a damn what you or I think, do you?


"...Do you think it's good business?..."

It has been so far for them. Microsoft has a very powerful monopoly that the U.S. federal government allows them to keep. Microsoft clears $49 MILLION in profit EVERY SINGLE DAY ($18 BILLION per year). During Friday happy hour, they celebrate another $343 MILLION in profit from people like you and me.


"...Are we going to have to upgrade all programs? Does it even support older software?..."

If you upgrade to Vista, yes. A lot of applications have problems on Vista, including older releases of MS Office.


"...Does this irritate you as much as it irritates me?..."

Not any more. I am completely calm and at peace now. I am NEVER going to upgrade to Vista, and I am just as happy as I can be about it. I'm FREE! And, I've been using Windows since 1992 (and still am as I type this).

This is just like getting out of a bad marriage. Once you decide to do it, the world looks so much brighter! :-)

You have all the power you need to be happy with your computer. If you don't want to upgrade to Vista, and you don't want to upgrade all of your applications, don't. There are other options, just like there are other fish in the sea.

It is no accident that we have Macintosh and Linux and massive amounts of open source as very good options today. It's up to you to choose.


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(1) Windows XP retail versions

Microsoft Windows XP Professional with SP2 - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16837116195

Microsoft Windows XP Home Upgrade with SP2 - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16837116194

Windows XP, various versions
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/002-5679488-9337636?url=search-alias%3Dsoftware&field-keywords=windows+xp&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go

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Someone's a bit resentful...

by bart99gt In reply to You can still buy retail ...

Woah...calm down!

Are you still sore that OS/2 didn't catch on?

Fact is, Microsoft released a product where there was a relative void beforehand. Apart from the various versions of the MacOS, there have been ZERO legitimate (ie., one that actually has a decent chance of getting widespread acceptance) user friendly desktop operating systems even introduced. Mac never caught on universally simply because it was (and still is) an expensive niche product. If you want to talk about price fixing, look no further than Apple. You either sell their product at the price they specify, or you don't sell it at all. I've looked at various retailers and there is NOBODY that discounts Macs. At least MS gives retailers some pricing leeway. If you're one of the conspiracy theorists that thinks MS is out to take over the world or whatever, you don't have to buy their products.

Linux simply isn't a viable option until someone comes up with a distro that totally eliminates the need to do things on the command line. Your average joe isn't going to tolerate having to deal with a prompt to configure or install an application. This is coming from someone who uses Linux, BTW. I could *possibly* get away with setting up a Linux box for my father, but I surely wouldn't set one up for anyone else in my family.

I'm not going to feel any sympathy for someone who is still trying to use Office 2000 or Office 97. From the standpoint of someone who works in IT support, there comes a time when you need to upgrade your software, regardless of what your personal feelings are about it. Eventually there comes a time even when 3rd party developers stop supporting an application. Of course, people are quick to forget that *many* Windows 95/98 apps wouldn't work out of the box with 2000 or XP. They had to be patched or some creative workarounds had to be implemented to make them work. And the same thing happened back then...people swore they'd never upgrade to 2000 or XP because some of their 2-3 year old programs wouldn't work with them.

Hardware wise, I'm not sore that my 8 year old Adaptec SCSI card isn't supported by Vista (and probably never will be). No, manufacturers probably aren't going to write drivers for alot of older hardware. FWIW, my AMD 64 3200+ with 1GB of RAM works fine with Vista. If there's anyone to fault for 1-3 year old hardware not being compatible with Vista, its the hardware manufacturers! They've had more than enough time to write new drivers, IMHO (Creative anyone??). Of course, these companies are in business to sell NEW hardware and not support someone's 5 or 6 year old video card forever.

Lastly, nobody is putting a gun to someone's head to go out and upgrade to Vista. In fact, if I hadn't gotten a FREE copy of Ultimate at a launch event, I'd still be plugging away with XP.

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I'ts OK. Really.

by TechExec2 In reply to Someone's a bit resentful ...

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A little bit. I'm just tired of being manipulated by Microsoft. It's pretty offensive. The capricious DE-activation problems in the Vista WGA have forced me to decide to completely leave Windows on my primary computer. Microsoft's actions with WGA in Vista are very offensive. They sell $44 BILLION in software each year and clear $18 BILLION profit. That's fine. There may be a piracy problem, but it's the kind of problem I would SEEK to have. It certainly isn't necessary to put hundreds of millions of legitimate customers at risk.


"...Linux simply isn't a viable option until someone comes up with a distro that totally eliminates the need to do things on the command line..."

I don't know. I can do most things in the GUI with KDE (Fedora 6). I use the command line freely, so I really cannot say if there is anything significant lacking in the KDE GUI.

---

I think it's fine if you want to run Vista. Vista (RC2) runs on my hardware also, complete with Aero Glass. I'm just not going to accept the WGA DE-activation nonsense. I don't have to. So, I won't.

I had an attitude when I made that post. I'm OK. Really. :-)

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all good points but...

by deICERAY In reply to Someone's a bit resentful ...

My major point remains that it is selfish and customer UNsupportive to summarily pull all copies of their OS's off the market, forcing you to buy Vista for anything new. It was never that way, period. I can still buy older versions of almost any software you can think of, and you used to be able to that with MS, and I think it's irresponsible to act this way. They are the overwhelming choice in the entire world for PC OS's, so why act like software nazi's?
Now people all over the world will either
a. hold off on upgrades
b. consider Linux
c. consider Macs
d. all of the above, PLUS regard MS as an insensitive corporate monopoly (no surprise there) and maybe send a message to them and simply not upgrade
e. (choice comes down the road) having held off until support/upgrades have vanished from microsoft.com for XP, they will HAVE to go to some other OS.
It's all bad. It's all too bad, because all they had to do was business as usual, and eventually people would come around willingly - now they will only come around grudgingly and with attitude and with a strong desire to 'get out' of the MS stranglehold.
OK, so that was more than one major point; consider it a patch to my first sentence.

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My memory is a bit fuzzy, but

by bart99gt In reply to all good points but...

I don't recall 98 or 2000 sitting on the shelves for very long after 2000 and XP (respectively) were introduced.

Of course it could have been a retailer decision to haul in copies of XP, since it appears that some retailers (mainly online) are still selling what copies of XP they have left in stock. Whatever is on the shelves of a store is actually the property of the retailer, so ultimately its up to them to keep it on the shelves or not.

Eventually you MUST upgrade your OS or entire computer. Companies stop writing compatible software for older operating systems and hardware support dwindles.

Let's step back and take a look at the big picture here. MS is marketing this product to the mass market, not just a small niche of consumers who might happen to keep every single computer they've ever owned for the past 5+ years and need an OS for each. Most people aren't going to run out and upgrade their OS just for the sake of doing so (well, unless you were one of the unlucky folks to buy a computer with Me on it). Most people will only experience Vista for the first time when they retire their old PC and buy a new one that already has Vista loaded on it. These kinds of people don't know and don't care that their local computer store or Microsoft (whatever the case may be) pulled XP off the shelves a month after the launch of Vista.

BTW, it isn't that hard finding a legal or semi-legal copy of XP. There are probably millions of unused keys on PCs across the country because a business has a VLK copy of XP and never used (or activated) the key that was on the sticker of the 1000 PCs they bought last month. I'm not going to debate the specific legality of this, but anytime I scrap an old PC that has a serial key on it, I write it down. MS probably would poo-poo on this, but as far as I'm concerned, "ownership" has changed hands (albeit to the dump or recycler).

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What a ridiculous tirade...

by jusovsky In reply to all good points but...

Why this hysteria over Windows Vista being pushed by few retialers? Microsoft doesn't call the shots, and if said retailers really want to sell XP, Microsoft will gladly sell them more licenses. I verified this with Ingram Micro, D&H distributing, and even Microsoft Licensing sites this morning. It has nothing to do with Microsoft "pulling" anything from the shelves.
You'd probably be a happier fellow if you removed Microsoft's nefarious Vista upgrade plans from your conspiracy theories. While you're at it, accept that JFK was shot by Oswald, the moon isn't made of cheese and that we really did land on it, and the Republicans are not trying to read your brain waves, so you can stop wearing that hat made of aluminim foil.

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