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  • #2153164

    Obama misspoke.. or did he?

    Locked

    by protiusx ·

    When one speaks off the cuff it is usually done openly and without guile. When one is speaking the truth one does not hesitate in their responses. Barak Obama did not hesitate when he spoke about his Muslim faith. I believe this is because his faith is based on a history of being raised as a Muslim and then being immersed into “Black Liberation Theology” as a young adult.

    Do I believe Obama is a Muslim? In part yes. His father is a Muslim, his grandfather is a Muslim and (from what I?ve read) he attended Muslim schools as a young child. Additionally, being immersed in the “Black Liberation Theology” movement for so many years he cannot credibly call himself a Christian as that movement does not identify itself with the tenets of Christianity.

    Does this remove him as a viable candidate for President?
    As a matter of opinion I would have to say no.

    The United States of America is inherently a secular nation. We are a country that was founded on religious freedom and the first amendment to our constitution forbids the government from making any law restricting the free expression of any religion (The fact that a decidedly liberal judiciary has decided to interpret that part of the constitution exactly opposite to the clear language it is was written in is a topic for a whole other discussion).

    My point is: He should not disavow a particular part of his past, his religiosity or his makeup to appease certain voters. He is who he is, and he should not try to paint himself as something he is not all for a few votes.

    There are certain ideologies and belief systems that are at their very heart prejudiced and racist. Does Sharia Law identify everyone (both man and woman, or the believer and the infidel) equally? Does the Black Liberation Theology movement promote inter-racial peace and harmony? Ultimately, I am saying that a president must firstly consider themselves an American above all other things. A president should not consider themselves a “Black-American” or an “Asian-American” first as this presupposes another ideology before that of the American. I want a president who will think of America first!

    Note – I’ve changed this from its original posting in an effort to clarify my intended supposition.

    Edited ? Corrected the amendment mistake. See what happens when I type really fast!

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    • #2799479

      Inheritance

      by gate keeper ·

      In reply to Obama misspoke.. or did he?

      “Do I believe Obama is a Muslim? In part yes. His father is a Muslim, his grandfather is a Muslim and (from what I?ve read) he attended Muslim schools as a young child.”
      ——————————————–
      let me correct a misunderstanding here:

      being a Muslim is not hereditary i.e your father and his father for 100 generations might have been Muslims … it does not automatically make you a Muslim.

      as far as I know most major religions are the same .. you are not born into a religion you choose.

      what in your opinion does Obama have to do or say to be accepted by you to be a christian ?

      • #2799442

        Conversion

        by protiusx ·

        In reply to Inheritance

        I am not suggesting that one?s religion is based on one?s parentage. What I am saying is that it is far more likely that a person who is raised in a family and a culture that espouses a certain religion tends to conform to those ways. More specifically, I was stating that there are fundamental lessons one learns at a very young age that tend to guide or influence ones decisions throughout the rest of their lives.

        It is not for me to say whether someone is a Christian or not. However, there lacks a clear understanding today in America what it means to be a ?Christian?.
        To be a Christian one must believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, is God, is born of a virgin, died on the cross, rose from the dead three days later and did so to pay for our sin and to be the ONLY conduit to salvation. One cannot work one?s way into heaven. It is a gift that must be received.

        Black Liberation Theology is a political movement garbed in the raiment of a religion.

        • #2799441

          Puuuulease

          by ic-it ·

          In reply to Conversion

          How ingrained do you think it could be from a father whom by all accounts did not practice it? Obama went to a school that had Muslims present, he also went to a Catholic school. Do you think he may be a closet Catholic?
          The BLT thing was wrapped in Christianity.
          And Elvis is really dead. 😉

        • #2798511

          What?!

          by jiminpa ·

          In reply to Puuuulease

          But he was just at my uncle’s wedding in August and he looked so healthy. Something must have happened to him when he left the building. 😀

        • #2799823

          Two errors

          by delbertpgh ·

          In reply to Conversion

          You say, “I am not suggesting that one?s religion is based on one?s parentage. What I am saying is that it is far more likely that a person who is raised in a family and a culture that espouses a certain religion tends to conform to those ways.”

          You are suggesting, unmistakably, that he’s a Muslim. Once a Muslim, always a Muslim. His father was over the hill by the time he was two, and his mother, though an atheist, was the product of a Christian family. He was raised for many years in the home of that family, and got a Christian upbringing. He attends an enthusiastically fundamentalist church as an adult. I’d say that if he picked up unerasable religious tendencies as a child, they were Christian. I see no reason to doubt his Christian identity, only coincidence falsly presented as evidence.

          Your other core issue, “Black Liberation Theology”, does not figure anywhere in his background. Possibly you are drawing a line connecting the pastor of his former church (the goofy Rev. Wright) and Marxist Caribbean priests? There’s zero evidence.

        • #2799808

          Delbert

          by santeewelding ·

          In reply to Two errors

          You introduce error into a context of the unerasable. You step on like thin ice.

        • #2798492

          It was directly from his mentor

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Two errors

          Wright said as much in interviews that is his teachings.

          Obama was right there, until it was not politically advantageous anymore.

        • #2798469

          Mentor?

          by mr stumper ·

          In reply to It was directly from his mentor

          Being a member of a local church is paramount to making the preacher a “mentor”?

          Tell me who your pastor is so that I can get transcripts and dessiminate every single word that your mentor says!

          Seriously, what about all the pandering the loony right (Bush, McCain, Reagan) does to the fanatical evangelists?

        • #2798378

          Obamas own words, or weren’t you paying attention?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Mentor?

          It was Obama that used that label until it came out what a racist git he really is. I know it has been over 3 days since Obama said it, but try to keep up.

          You can make excuses all you want, changes nothing.

          You can try saying someone else is just as bad, reflects pathetically upon you, and changes nothing.

          Obama talks about his religion more than any other politician, past or present, that I can think of. Heck, even the “rev” Sharpton and “rev” jackson don’t talk about religion as much.

        • #2781415

          Own words…

          by mr stumper ·

          In reply to Obamas own words, or weren’t you paying attention?

          Yours: Oh, we shouldn’t discriminate against Mormons? It is only the Muslims that you are not ALLOWED to talk negatively about.

          Also yours: You can try saying someone else is just as bad, reflects pathetically upon you, and changes nothing.

          I’m sorry that you consider yourself “pathetic”. You should really do something about that self-loathing issue you have. It’s really not healthy.

          In any case, I looked and could not find a single transcript or video showing Obama referring to Wright as his Mentor. I found tons of quotes of people saying Obama said “Mentor” but no direct quotes.

          If you can post one (again, an unedited transcript or video) then I will happily admit that I’m wrong. If not, I’ll just assume that it’s just another right wing wacko talking point.

          Besides, you should keep up, didn’t you know the newest scare tactic is that Obama wants to teach sex-ed to kindergarteners? THAT’s what you are supposed to be talking about now, or didn’t you get the memo?

        • #2788089

          Why bother?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Obamas own words, or weren’t you paying attention?

          You have taken on the debate tactics of pee wee herman, and not looking to discuss or be open to anything.

          “councils me”
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpzHQ_PC1uI&feature=related

          “like an uncle”
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP2K4Lhas2o&feature=related

          Yeah, it was a real surprise to Obama after 20 years. Got a bridge to sell you….

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXNk5OVLm4k&feature=related

          And of course that is before we even take into consideration about his white grandma who avoided black youths based upon their being black, was a “typical white person”.

        • #2791435

          This is ridiculous

          by mr stumper ·

          In reply to Obamas own words, or weren’t you paying attention?

          First of all there is no mention of the word ?mentor?, no wonder I couldn?t find anything. Get your facts straight.

          Secondly, Obama kept referring to Wright as his Pastor who ?like an uncle?, ?counseled? him on taught him about Christianity when he was younger, which is exactly what a Pastor should do. Obama never even implied that Wright has any affect on his political views, nor councils him on politics in any way. It is people like you and the ?liberal media?, who are trying to spin this into a political issue. I wonder why the ?liberal media? isn?t going after McCain/Palin as viciously?

          Also, your mention of Obama?s grandmother is another cute little spin on what Obama really meant. Which is that good people who are not necessarily racist can still harbor stereotypical views. Honestly, from many of your own comments, it sounds like he could have been talking about you, JD.

          Seriously, you should learn to think for yourself instead of parroting RNC talking points. I realize, while you may not, that the tactic is to continually repeat the same thing over and over again until it becomes ?fact?, but free thinking people will simply be turned away from those using such tactics. It really is getting to the point where people are catching on to the RNC below the belt tactics and are being turned off by it. Even Rove has figured this out.

          You know, if I were as brain-washed as you I could twist statements and fact to state that Palin hates jews, Bush is in league with Bin Laden, McCain is a admitted war criminal and Limbaugh goes to the Dominican Republic to have sex with underage prostitutes. I?ve actually heard wackos say such things, with twisted documentation ?backing? it up, but I would never believe them, nor repeat them with serious intent because I have more respect for myself than that.

          Keep you ear open for that newest talking point to spread around!

        • #2791382

          RE: This is ridiculous

          by netman1958 ·

          In reply to Obamas own words, or weren’t you paying attention?

          “I wonder why the ?liberal media? isn?t going after McCain/Palin as viciously?”

          Excuse me?
          They call Palin a Christian fanatic/lunatic/extremist
          because they heard she once bought a copy of Neil Diamond’s “Brother Love’s Travelling Salvation Show”

          Give me a break.

        • #2791361

          Netman, which media outlet?

          by mr stumper ·

          In reply to Obamas own words, or weren’t you paying attention?

          Called “Palin a Christian fanatic/lunatic/extremist
          because they heard she once bought a copy of Neil Diamond’s “Brother Love’s Travelling Salvation Show””

          Was it ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, CNN, MSNBC or FOX?

          You seriously cannot tell me that McCain/Palin have been grilled as much as Obama. Of course Palin has had only one interview so far…’cause she’s in “media” boot camp right now, learning how to interview. And McCain has only received softball questions.

          No questions regarding the Keating five, Rod Parsley (personally think this is about as stupid as the whole Wright thing), or the fact that this maverick’s campaign, who keeps talking about “change”, is filled with lobbyists for the Oil companies. Or how about the fact that he flipped flopped on the state of the economy not 48 hours ago, or how he stated that those running failed companies should give up their “golden parachutes” but has not asked HIS OWN ADVISOR, Fiorina to give back her 40 million golden parachute for screwing up HP!

          Answer me that batman!

        • #2791219

          Mr. Stumper

          by netman1958 ·

          In reply to Obamas own words, or weren’t you paying attention?

          Actually I was making a snide remark in an attempt to demonstrate how silly and ridiculous some of the attacks that have come from BOTH camps really are. In reality though, Palin has been attacked and accused of being a Christian zealot in reference to a video of her addressing a graduating class at Wasilla Assembly of God. See this article for an example:
          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

          “You seriously cannot tell me that McCain/Palin have been grilled as much as Obama.”
          Are you kidding? Which of those media outlets you listed do you watch/read? Maybe you just see what you want to see.

          “No questions regarding the Keating five, Rod Parsley (personally think this is about as stupid as the whole Wright thing),…..”

          If you haven’t already done so, you might want to take a look at this website:
          http://www.factcheck.org/

          I think you will find that there has been plenty of crap coming from both camps. The whole thing disgusts me.

        • #2798346

          This is so lame

          by delbertpgh ·

          In reply to It was directly from his mentor

          Your priest says something, so it’s the same thing as you saying it? Unbelievable.

        • #2783672

          This is lamer

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to This is so lame

          If I hold someone up to the world, and say they have been the biggest influence in my life and have shaped my spirituality, (as Obama did) then yes, his views ARE relevant.

          You can make all the excuses you want.

          You can overlook anything that you dislike if you want.

          This man was held up as the single biggest influence, mentor, and friend for decades, of Obama. Are you going to TRY to say Obama isn’t a lying punk for pretending to not know what a hateful racist git the man is?

          Could one of your friends be so hateful, and you not realize it for decades? No.

          Silly me, I always forget that for a Democrat, character is not a trait that is valued.

        • #2798454

          You see no reason to doubt his Christianity

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Two errors

          I agree.

          I also see no reason to judge his ability to be a political leader, of a country that does not discriminate based on religon, because of his religious convictions.

          The whole concept is hypocritically flawed.

        • #2799724

          Completely 100% incorrect

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Conversion

          “I am not suggesting that one?s religion is based on one?s parentage.”

          Yes, yes you are. You are implying that since he had a father who was Muslim, that Obama therefore, MUST be Muslim.

          “What I am saying is that it is far more likely that a person who is raised in a family and a culture that espouses a certain religion tends to conform to those ways.”

          In that case Obama is a Catholic or Christian. He was raise by his mother, who by all accounts, was not very religious and raised by his grandparents who were Catholic.

          So, does that mean Obama is a Muslim Catholic Christian?

          “It is not for me to say whether someone is a Christian or not.”

          Nice try Sean Hannity. You are clearly implying that he is NOT Christian. It’s insulting to my intelligence to state otherwise.

          “Black Liberation Theology is a political movement garbed in the raiment of a religion. ”

          I don’t even think I want to touch this with a ten foot pole.

          Let me summarize what you’ve said: “Unless someone believe exactly as I do, they are not Christian.”

        • #2783654

          His father’s influence

          by protiusx ·

          In reply to Completely 100% incorrect

          Okay, let me be as clear as I possibly can for you. Generally, one tends to identify with the precepts (both religious and social)learned from one’s parents. Notice I said GENERALLY.
          If we are going to have a discussion on what a Christian is we really should have a common understanding of what we both “think” a Christian is. I mean do you think someone who does NOT believe in the divinity of Christ is a Christian? How about someone who thinks that there are loads of gods and Christ is one of them? Is that person a Christian? I was merely trying to provide some context as to what is conclusively agreed upon as what a Christian is. There are a lot of Christian’s who disagree with one another on tenets of faith but they ALL believe in the common underpinnings of the Christian faith.

        • #2799717

          OK, now a question for you

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Conversion

          [i]To be a Christian one must believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, is God, is born of a virgin, died on the cross, rose from the dead three days later and did so to pay for our sin and to be the ONLY conduit to salvation.[/i]

          If that’s what you must do to be a Christian, what must you do to be Christian?

        • #2783674

          Doing is a lot harder than being :) (nt)

          by tonythetiger ·

          In reply to OK, now a question for you

          .

        • #2783576

          Amen!

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Doing is a lot harder than being :) (nt)

          Imagine how much better things could be if more people were doing instead of just being.

        • #2799707

          Lack of clear understanding what it means to be christian

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Conversion

          Yeah me too.

          Every time I talk to one, they say something different than the last one.

        • #2800368

          Not unique.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to Lack of clear understanding what it means to be christian

          I have the same problem with members of most religions, but it doesn’t mean they’re unfit (or fit) for elected office.

        • #2800125

          No the only thing that should bar someone from

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Not unique.

          that is a desire to be in public office.

        • #2798532

          You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to No the only thing that should bar someone from

          You mean let in the poor, or non Protestant, or those that aren’t white, or those that aren’t male!!??

          Looking at this current election, you are wrong…we can’t let them there MUSLIMS in office!!!

        • #2798491

          Oh, we shouldn’t discriminate against Mormons?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          oh wait, it is still politically allowed to go after them. Silly me.

          It is only the Muslims that you are not ALLOWED to talk negatively about.

        • #2798489

          Wasn’t a Mormon running for President? :-)

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          Race, creed, religion, fart smell, amount of money in he bank, or sexual preference should never enter into the equation…

          Unless of course they’re Mormon (that’s what the MSM told me) 😉

        • #2798376

          It does show the hypocrisy, doesn’t it?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          I would trust a Mormon before I would trust a Muslim, if I were to have to vote by religion.

          Good thing that will not come to a vote, huh? Let the people trying to distract from any real points continue worrying about the religion of each.

          If people waste their time attacking Obama the muslim, they distract from attacking Obama the Marxist for change. America is a great country, but he will “change” that, and all you will be left with is “change” in your pocket when he is done taxing.

        • #2798349

          Why the mis-direction

          by ic-it ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          of only change in your pocket.
          That has been dispelled in numerous postings. With Obama’s tax plan the average middle class taxpayer will gain about 5%. With McCain’s it is about 3%.
          Now Greenspan has gone on record stating that McCains plan Will bankrupt America unless huge cuts in Federal spending are inacted (like that is going to happen). McCains plan will cost us about 3.3 trillion dollars in deficet.
          So it would be more accurate to say McCain’s plan will leave us with only change (or lint) in the pocket. 😉

        • #2798335

          Why don’t you comment

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          on the free pass being muslim gets while mormon equaled license to kill?

        • #2798322

          Because he isn’t Muslim, also

          by ic-it ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          who says a Muslim gets more of a free pass than a Morman? The right wing will attack a candidate from either of those faiths.

          Side stepping the tax comments? Hmm.

        • #2798312

          RE: Side stepping the tax comments

          by netman1958 ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          Actually, according to this article:

          http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html

          Obama’s plan might be a little better than McCain’s but they both leave a lot to be desired. After you read this article you might want to go to the home page

          http://www.factcheck.org/

          where there are numerous articles that debunk stuff that have come from both camps.

        • #2798300

          JD, Mormons, hypocrisy

          by delbertpgh ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          Quote, “Oh, we shouldn’t discriminate against Mormons?
          oh wait, it is still politically allowed to go after them. Silly me.”

          You sure ain’t talking about Democrats. You might wish you were, but that wasn’t who unfairly circulated prejudicial judgements against ole Mitt. I guess if you’re a Republican, you maybe managed to discriminate against Mitt and the Mormons. It was Republican hillbilly voters who were busy circulating the story that Mormonism is a “cult” instead of a religion. And it sure wasn’t Democrats who voted Romney down in those Republican primaries.

          I actually didn’t mind Romney as a Presidential possibility, that is until I saw him run for the office. As governor, he was a moderate (translate to Republican-speak: “extreme liberal”) who took balanced positions and tried to deliver good government. As a candidate, though, he tried to run to the right of Cheney while sounding dumber than Bush, apparently believing these were the necessary qualities to attract what has turned out to be the Palin constituency.

          Hmm… maybe if he wore his hair in a bun and shot moose, he’d have gotten further.

        • #2783688

          After listening to Obama and his plans

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          his many redistribution plans are going to as he said “hurt” people.

          Like was discussed a few months ago, his plan to have a tax paid to go to other nations, run by the UN. If individuals want to donate to other countries, let them do so. I don’t think obama should be wasting my money over seas worrying about their poor when people are hurting plenty here, thanks to jobs being sent overseas, and sucking money out of our economy and sending it to other nations that will sell us oil, laughing that we are to stupid do use our own. They are laughing all the way to the bank, as we sell future generations down the river.

          Obama will never get my vote.

        • #2783677

          are you for real ?

          by gate keeper ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          JD are you just trying to score a cheap point here .. or do you seriously believe

          “It is only the Muslims that you are not ALLOWED to talk negatively about.”

          let me remind you …. this whole thread and this topic revolves around obama allegedly being a Muslim … as if that is enough to disqualify him from running for office.That is the underlying message here is it not …Obama is a Muslim therefore not fit to run for office ?

          I can drag up threads in TR .. where Muslim-bashing love fest was being held.

          forget talking about Muslims negatively it is no longer even politically incorrect to outright racially disparage them as a whole.

        • #2783673

          Egad. Is this your brain on drugs, or what?

          by delbertpgh ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          “After listening to Obama and his plans
          his many redistribution plans are going to as he said “hurt” people. Like was discussed a few months ago, his plan to have a tax paid to go to other nations, run by the UN.”

          Usually, I find people confine their delusions to something that can fit on a bumper sticker, but that doesn’t fit you. You’re the total package. You’re running down the fantasy highway in a 409. Go, Speed Racer! Not that I’m suggesting you’re Japanese, of course. If you were, you might start voting against yourself.

        • #2783670

          Gatekeeper, not talking on TR

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          talking out in the real world, in the mass media.

          Now that we are all on the same page, care to try again?

        • #2783648

          :) JD what are you on ?

          by gate keeper ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          … whatever it is .. can i have some …cuz it must be some strong sh!t

          let me get this right .. you a think TR (a community of educated professionals) are prejudiced against Muslims.. but people out in the real world .. treat them with kiddy gloves.

          How many people do you know that hold all Muslims accountable for 9/11 ?

          cuz i know literally dozens … and that’s not even south of the border .. I imagine the number would be much greater.
          ————————————–
          EDIT

          I just came across these words of yours .. in this thread

          “Thanks to media coverage
          to most people, muslim equals subjugation of women, beheading of anyone they disagree with, and an orgy in heaven if you kill the infidels.” -jdclyde

          it appears you were just playing dumb after all

          care to try again ?

        • #2783426

          I know this is difficult

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          I am not sure if it is an inability to comprehend on your part, a poor job of communicating on my part, or a combination of them. I suspect people reading what they want to see in other peoples writings, combined with personal blind spots has made this calm attempt on my part to explain, a waste of time.

          Since you don’t understand or agree with what I am saying, you can go ahead thinking I am doped up or mentally deficient if it gets you through the day. I give.

        • #2783421

          Del, actually

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You mean we shouldn’t discriminate!!?? BLASPHEMY!

          this was based upon listening to him talk in the DNC debates and during the primary’s.

          Not from blogs, or any outside source, but listening directly to the man, back when he and Hilary were debating “free” healthcare and such.

          If you choose to not hear what he is saying, when he says it, that is your choice.

        • #2783860

          For me personally

          by stepmonster ·

          In reply to No the only thing that should bar someone from

          For me personally, I want a president that hits his knees in prayer every time a huge decision hits his desk. Daily! I want him praying to the ONLY God. It’s a Christian nation, based on the Right to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, regardless of who lives here now.

          Yes, my way – or it’s wrong. Correct. Why? Because the Bible tells me so.

        • #2783841

          One question.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to For me personally

          How do you know the Bible is correct?

        • #2798456

          However, there lacks a clear understanding today in America what it means t

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Conversion

          [i]However, there lacks a clear understanding today in America what it means to be a ?Christian?. [/i]

          and

          However, there lacks a clear understanding today in America what it means to be a ?Muslim?.

        • #2798375

          Thanks to media coverage

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to However, there lacks a clear understanding today in America what it means t

          to most people, muslim equals subjugation of women, beheading of anyone they disagree with, and an orgy in heaven if you kill the infidels.

          Maybe the liberal medias excessively biased coverage of Iraq is starting to back fire, huh? Instead of scaring Americans out of Iraq, it has painted the extremists as crazy people.

          Is there any wonder people would be uncomfortable with a muslim leader?

        • #2798310

          You can’t blame the media all the time

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Thanks to media coverage

          I agree that it is the media that has blown things out of propotion and that they constantly miguide the public.

          However, this also illustrates the blatant stupidity of most people to not question and investigate news. It is OUR jobs as citizens to seek out more information and confirm or reject such BS from the media.

          It’s as bad as people who listen to political jargon and use it to vote.

          People need to take responsibility for their own actions, and that includes questioning media news, questioning the government and building an opinion based on research, proper research.

          People don’t question the government, this blows my mind because it is our jobs to question our leaders and hold them accountable for government action/inaction.

          It is out duty to make sure the press is scrutinized so as to keep THEM in line.

          The reason the press gets away with this Enquirer style reporting is because nobody really questions it. If it was held under a microscope, they would be more incluned to report truth and retain integrity as a news source.

          If it is on CNN, many people believe anything they say, however the same goes for all other biased sources (thank God for SNOPES), its just a matter of finding one that lies by telling you what you WANT to hear.

          In the end I keep coming back to the same thing; the more people I meet, the more I respect the bear I saw in the woods this weekend, what a smart bugger to just get on with his life and ignore the ridiculous world around him. Compared to wildlife, our so called advanced culture is quite simple and rather stupid.

          As Freddy Mercury said:

          “If there’s a god up in the sky,looking down,
          what must he think of, what we’ve done
          to the world that he created.”

          Sometimes its embarassing to be human, I get these feelings when I return from a trip and see just how in tune and synchronized the rest of the world’s natural creatures are.

          We are just a bunch of buffoons who think we are an advanced civilization, what a laugh that is.

          Mankind is like cancer to the world, it did much better without us and will do much better again, once we are all gone.

        • #2783695

          That’s why the MSM hates bloggers and independent sites

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to You can’t blame the media all the time

          The MSM hates thinks like FactCheck.org and the blogosphere (blech…I can’t believe I just used that term).

          Finally, we’re seeing people take power BACK and find out what is really happening in the election process.

        • #2783690

          There used to be a time

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to That’s why the MSM hates bloggers and independent sites

          when the media was seen as the watchdog of government, until they found it was to their advantage to control instead of report.

          “reporters” are a dead breed, and left in their place are opinionists.

          Unfortunately, there are so many whackjobs blogging as well…. 🙁

          We are left with such a horrible selection because this is who the media put up for us. It was MEDIA coverage of Mit that knocked him out of the running and put one of the weakest candidates up there. This makes it less likely for him to win, and if he does, he is a lot more liberal in many of his views, so it is still a win, while the rest of us all lose.

        • #2783652

          What are they supposed to do?

          by tonythetiger ·

          In reply to You can’t blame the media all the time

          [i]However, this also illustrates the blatant stupidity of most people to not question and investigate news.[/i]

          Turn to another channel and watch THEIR news?

          Read blogs?

          Who CAN you (we) trust?

        • #2781461

          There is no single source anymore

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to What are they supposed to do?

          BUT, just as we find here, you hear a story and see who else has reported it (not just reposted the same story and credited the first writer). When yuo find siz or seven credible sources that all say the same thing in a different way or in their own words from their own reports, its a good indication of consistency and credibility.

          If you find ONE story that counters or corrects the point, thne you have some real diggint ot do, find out which story has credibility or is basked by facts that can be confirmed. Just as a reporter does his homework, so must we.

          No we will not always get the correct idea but it certaionly beats taking CNN verbatim or any others for that matter. I find many people will instantly discount a source, just becaiuse of the source. Regardless of who said it or how often they are wrong, there is always SOME truth in it but we must disect what is said, who said it and try to determine WHY it was said.

          All I am saying is don’t rely on a single news source for your news. I hear a story and then instantly jump online and start looking into it and trying to confirm or deny it, whereas I find others that say “ahh, it’s CNN they are full of crap” and they never look any further. But what if it actually IS true and yet the instant bias refuses to let you see the truth?

          As they say on the X Files, “the truth is out there.”

        • #2802348

          All the truth about human being !

          by danfrancie ·

          In reply to You can’t blame the media all the time

          OZ, that’s what i think about human being when i consider all things he have accomplished in this earth and therefore think he is an advanced civilizated being. Personnaly i don’t thing we (human being) are superior to other creatures on this earth.
          “Compared to wildlife, our so called advanced culture is quite simple and rather stupid”, anything else.
          I recommandto WHOM think the opposite to just take time to look at other creatures and their life and to self mirroid in clean water. “unfortunately”, we can’t try this because there’s no logner clean water in this earth!

        • #2803103

          Christian Prejudgice?

          by philipyandel ·

          In reply to Conversion

          “Black Liberation Theology is a political movement garbed in the raiment of a religion.” I think the same could be said about the right-wing fundamental evangelican Christian movement that tries to force it’s morality and religious views upon the rest of the American people.

          BTW – How many Muslims do you have daily contact with that helped you to base your opinion of their religion on?

        • #2803052

          Philip, you’re wasting your time.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to Christian Prejudgice?

          ProtiusX is what we call a ‘seagull poster’. He flies in, squawks a lot, s#!ts on everything, and then leaves. He’s responded to only two questions since starting this love-fest and is not expected to return to defend any of his near-indefensible positions. He couldn’t find a Muslim if you dropped him in Mecca.

      • #2799708

        Muslim, Christian, or other

        by the scummy one ·

        In reply to Inheritance

        why does it matter? Can he or can he not do the job?

        • #2783659

          He can not

          by protiusx ·

          In reply to Muslim, Christian, or other

          In my opinion, I would say he can not.

        • #2783651

          So what does his religion have to do with anything?

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to He can not

          Can you say why you think he cannot, without invoking his religious beliefs, regardless of what they may be?

        • #2783614

          What happened to you leaving TR?

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to He can not

          I thought you were taking your toys and going home?

        • #2783582

          Move along, buddy; I’m working this side of the street. (No text)

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to What happened to you leaving TR?

          :p

        • #2781436

          NEVER! I’m going to steal your thunder! ;-) NT

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Move along, buddy; I’m working this side of the street. (No text)

          NT

        • #2781393

          Steal my thunder?

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to Move along, buddy; I’m working this side of the street. (No text)

          Pull my finger and you can have it for free.

        • #2788155

          *pulls Palmetto’s finger*

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Move along, buddy; I’m working this side of the street. (No text)

          Oh, it smells like carrots and throw up. Oh, that could gag a maggot. I smell like hot sick. Ass and a dead carcasss. Oh, even stink would say that stinks. You know when you go in an apartment building and you smell other peoples cooking on each floor, and you go “what are they cookin?” That plus crap.

        • #2791427

          Would it knock a buzzard off a garbage truck at 50 meters?

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to *pulls Palmetto’s finger*

          Did the EPA declare the immediate area a Super Fund clean-up site? Did a new hole open in the ozone layer? Did it smell like at least six other people should feel better after that one? Did wine glasses shatter and small children faint, scarred for life? Did it smell like an opossum crawled up in me about three days ago and then died, an opossum with a wharf rat already three days old up inside it?

          My work is done here.

        • #2791374

          Not quite

          by santeewelding ·

          In reply to *pulls Palmetto’s finger*

          Did it make a freight engine jump the tracks and take a dirt road?

        • #2781460

          Yeah but nobody else would play either

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to What happened to you leaving TR?

          So it’s back to TR again.

      • #2803105

        Why the Prejudgice Against Muslims?

        by philipyandel ·

        In reply to Inheritance

        First, I have to say that I am absolutely surprized that normally rational adults turn into superstitious children when it comes to Islam and Muslims. Why do you feel that being a Muslim would be abad thing? Just because some Muslim fanatics have gone off their med’s and declared war against everything non-muslim, in direct conflict with the teachings of Islam, we put every Muslim into that same category as those nuts. How about the fanatical right-wing conservative Christians and some of the strange views they hold when viewed by people outside of their religious circles?

        Second, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Mr Obama is now or ever has been a Muslim. I hope that makes the paranoid among you feel better now. And in order calm for fears of xenophobes, he has had to make it a point to show that he is a mainstream Christian, even though his religion is not an issue that we should be using to decide who will lead our country.

        Having been involved in the fundemental, evangelical right-wing Christian movement for many years, now that I am out of it, those that cling to it scare me far more than any muslim ever can.

    • #2799474

      So wait….

      by jmgarvin ·

      In reply to Obama misspoke.. or did he?

      Because Obama’s father was a Mulsim, who wasn’t even in Obama’s life, that makes Obama a Muslim?

      I thought we’d be through all this about six months ago and it was a agreed this was backwards thinking.

    • #2799470

      on sharia

      by gate keeper ·

      In reply to Obama misspoke.. or did he?

      “There are certain ideologies and belief systems that are at their very heart prejudiced and racist. Does Sharia Law identify everyone (both man and woman, or the believer and the infidel) equally?”
      ———————————————
      for example you single out sharia law as racist or prejudice … no doubt you will come out with examples of sharia law with regards to homosexuality, infidels,heretic etc.

      sharia law is based upon the same abrahamic laws that you can find in the Talmud and the Bible … all three hold the exact same positions with regards to many things homosexuality,disbelievers aka infidels aka heretic.

      from an objective theological point of view there is not a big difference between them.
      unless you are railing against religion in general from the point of view of an atheist … no single religion holds a monopoly on jihad(Islam) or crusades(Christianity) or ***** (whatever you call what is being done the Palestinians)

      ps: the ***** are there so we don’t get sidetracked into another debate

    • #2799468

      If that’s true

      by jck ·

      In reply to Obama misspoke.. or did he?

      “When one speaks off the cuff it is usually done openly and without guile. When one is speaking the truth one does not hesitate in their responses. ”

      Barack Obama…MUSLIM?

      Lemme give you his own website that debunks your whole basis:

      http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/11/12/obama_has_never_been_a_muslim_1.php

      There ya go, ProtiusX. He is not and has never been a Muslim. From his own campaign.

      Now…as for others in the campaigns…

      Sarah Palin’s interview with Charles Gibson on ABC was filled with little “uhs” and pauses and you could tell she was fighting to push out the right words to make things extra nice and politically correct.

      Especially trying to turn around that she called the military action in Iraq “God’s”.

      As well, John McCain makes long pauses all the time. However, I give him benefit of the doubt. He is older, plus he’s been through hell and back.

      I’ve never seen a staunch so-called Christian conservative move away from God so quick, except for in the movies.

      That shocks me. Normally Christians stick up for what they say. She duck and covered quick.

      Kinda disappointing. I figured she had more guts than to let the media sway her religious convictions and her beliefs that God leads good people down the right path…including the military.

    • #2799440

      Which amendment was that?

      by nicknielsen ·

      In reply to Obama misspoke.. or did he?

      [i]We are a country that was founded on religious freedom and the [u]second[/u] amendment to our constitution forbids the government from making any law restricting the free expression of any religion…[/i] (my emphasis)

      Have I misunderstood the Constitution and its amendments all these years?
      .
      .
      .
      I thought not.

      edit: grammar

    • #2799827

      The only religious school he attended was… Catholic.

      by delbertpgh ·

      In reply to Obama misspoke.. or did he?

      As a child he spent three years in Indonesia. For one year, he went to a public school, where they opened each day with a prayer to Allah. The other two years, he attended a Catholic school. The public school is the one that gets referred to as a “madrassa”, although they taught science and other subjects, and no religion, and they taught boys and girls together.

      By the way, when I attended Pittsburgh public schools in 1958 through 1962, my classes were opened every day with a prayer. Was I in a madrassa or a seminary? Did that make me a Christian for life?

      Beats me how you figure his father, who left him by age two, could have imparted a unshakable religious commitment to Islam to him. Or his grandfather, even. Did he ever meet the guy? Did he remember his dad?

      This all seems like an effort to discredit him in the eyes of voters by putting out false evidence for him being a Muslim. Americans won’t vote for a Muslim, so the best way to defeat him is to spread a rumor. Do you realize you’re a tool?

      • #2798472

        Oh my GOD!

        by mr stumper ·

        In reply to The only religious school he attended was… Catholic.

        I went to Catholic school! Does that mean I’m Catholic? Seriously? Wow…I thought that because I never got Confirmed that I wasn’t. Crap…why didn’t anyone tell me. All that “pre-marital sex” and stuff…and now I guess I’m goin to hell.

        Not to mention the fact that my family is German…I guess I’m a Nazi too! I seriously wish someone would tell me this stuff. Guess it’s time to start hating Jews. Which is going to be tough considering I really don’t hate anybody.

        So…If I’m a Nazi…do I get a cool uniform?

        • #2783622

          No Uniform

          by the scummy one ·

          In reply to Oh my GOD!

          however you really need to change your Avatar to reflect the Naziism :0
          Oh, and make sure to have a cross with it, and some rosary beads… just to make sure there is no confusion :^0

        • #2783580

          Don’t you still have your old uniform?

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to Oh my GOD!

          From Catholic school? I’ll bet you looked hot in that white blouse with the plaid skirt. 😀

        • #2783573

          You forgot the Mary Janes :0

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Don’t you still have your old uniform?

          Patent leather. It’s just not the same without them. ;\

        • #2783444

          And the white ankle socks!

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to You forgot the Mary Janes :0

          With the hem of the skirt Scotch-taped up at least four inches above the knee.

          “C’mon Virginia, don’t make me wait,
          You Catholic girls start much too late.”

        • #2783395

          scotch taped?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to And the white ankle socks!

          Is that an addition after leaving the house? :0

          [i]
          “I don’t usually say things like this to girls your age,
          but when I saw you Coming out of the school that day,
          that day I knew, I knew, Ive got to have You,
          Ive got to have you.”

        • #2783388

          Yeah.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to scotch taped?

          Or roll up the waist several inches, accomplishing the effect of raising the hem. Girls who knew how to sew used a product called Liquid Hem (or something similar). It was designed to hold fabric temporarily while the pieces were sewn together, but it worked well to temporarily hold the hem above the mandated minimum. It’s also much more interesting than the original topic.

        • #2783369

          Didn’t have uniforms

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to scotch taped?

          so this is all news to me.

        • #2781479

          Now you’ve done it!

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to And the white ankle socks!

          I’m going to have to ask my neighbor to dress up tonight…

          :^0

        • #2783569

          Hey. I resemble that remark.

          by captbilly1eye ·

          In reply to Don’t you still have your old uniform?

          ‘cept we called it a kilt.

          😉

        • #2783443

          One big difference.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to Hey. I resemble that remark.

          No one wants to see what you have under your kilt.

    • #2799715

      Didn’t you say you were leaving?

      by charliespencer ·

      In reply to Obama misspoke.. or did he?

      I distinctly remember you saying you were leaving. It was in your “I’m being censored; poor pitiful me” tantrum. You said it at least twice. Why are you still here?

      Obviously we shouldn’t have believed those posts. Why should we believe any part of this one?

    • #2783542

      Who the hell cares?

      by boxfiddler ·

      In reply to Obama misspoke.. or did he?

      He’s just another politician. Political success requires great skill in lying and manipulation. I thought we’d figured that out by now.

      What, I’m wrong again? 😉

      • #2783417

        Not “again”

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Who the hell cares?

        “still”.

        Again would indicate you STOPPED being wrong at some point and started up again…. :p

    • #2783390

      STILL HERE?

      by the ‘g-man.’ ·

      In reply to Obama misspoke.. or did he?

    • #2781443

      The absolute opposite here – Being Muslim is a vote getter

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to Obama misspoke.. or did he?

      In the current election, we have soem locals that would be tarred and feathered, dragged through the streets and peed on by America, if they were running for office there.

      While driving in Delta yesterday, very East Indian and Pakistani dominated city, I saw the following campaign signs.

      Conservative: Sandeep Pandher

      Conservative Party of Canada


      Note that his bio states that although he was born in Edmonton (Alberta) he grew up in India. now if that was teh USA, would it not be, ‘Although I grew up in India, I was born in Edmonton”

      But as Delta is predominantly East Indian, they won’t vote for a Canadian if an Indian is on the ballot. His key is that he IS Indian.

      Surrey NDP MLA – Jagrup Brar
      http://nid-1431.profile.bcndp.ca/
      “Born in India, Jagrup moved to Canada to study at the University of Manitoba where he earned a Master’s degree in Public Administration.”

      The list goes on and on, we don’t care if politicians are muslim, in fact in their areas they actually get more votes for being muslim.

      And poeple say Canada is just like the states. LOL, close but not quite, eh?

      • #2788133

        Come to my hometown.

        by jamesrl ·

        In reply to The absolute opposite here – Being Muslim is a vote getter

        There have been times when all the candidates for the three major parties were East Indian.

        But most of them here are Sikhs not Muslims.

        The Sikh community here is pretty tight, and the Sikh politicians use the community associations well.

        My MP is Gurbax Malhi, he didn’t live in the riding when first elected (parachute) but got in anyway. Next riding over is the lovely Dr. Ruby Dalla.

        Didn’t BC have the husband and wife conservative MPs, they were both of East Indian heritage. And BC had a premier who is of East Indian heritage – Usal Dhosanjh.

        James

        • #2788105

          And of course

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Come to my hometown.

          that is not seen as any kind of racism, but if the same East Indian ran in a NONindian area and was defeated by a nonIndian how is that seen?

          Is it racist to vote for “one of your own”?

          If not, is it racist NOT vote for someone because they are NOT “one of your own”?

    • #2791491

      What are your sources?!

      by cactus pete ·

      In reply to Obama misspoke.. or did he?

      “Do I believe Obama is a Muslim? In part yes. His father is a Muslim, his grandfather is a Muslim and (from what I?ve read) he attended Muslim schools as a young child.”

      Where did you read this that has not already issued a retraction/correction? He did not attend a Muslim school, let alone multiple Muslim schools.

      If anything, having a diverse background and experiences will help him make sensible and informed decisions – which is much more than I can say for the present administration and what it’s party is offering up as a continuation.

      • #2791436

        Don’t expect an answer.

        by charliespencer ·

        In reply to What are your sources?!

        In theory ProtiusX is interested enough in this topic to have scooped it back out of the litter box, but he’s only bothered to respond three time since the initial post. One of those was to thank someone for pointing out a typo, so he’s only put up two posts of ‘substance’.

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