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picking a technology to learn

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picking a technology to learn

Jaqui
Twice yesterday I saw discussions / questions here abould learning new technologies.

for one, the persons information given in the post suggested that the tech really would not benefit anyone, including the proposed business startup.
[ linux and virtual machines to develop windows apps ]

The other, from someone who is not a tech, to learn the lowest level programming language there is.


maybe people should have it blatantly pounded into their heads:

don't pick a technology just because it is the latest fad / you are told to, pick it because it is a huge benefit to your life / will be instremental in moving your career in the path you want it to take.


why learn linux development and work with virtual machines to develop windows apps when you already know how to develop windows apps?
cross platform development is harder than developing for the target platform on the target platform by orders of magnitude, even with widget sets that are available for the target platform and the host platform.
[ system calls / paths are set up differently, your code needs to take that into concideration. ]

why learn something like assembly programming because a friend says you should?
are you going to be writing device drivers or operating systems for a living afterwards?


look at what use and what problems there will be caused by the technology before going to the effort of studying it to use it.
don't do it just because it's the hot thing, or a friend tells you to.
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    Tony Hopkinson

    coders should be taught assembly.

    Actually those two posts weren't that bad. The scary one was the guy who wanted to get a vb6 front end to talk to sql server under wine.

    The assembly language guy, though I'd be interested in his mates justification for why he should learn assembler. I think I'm a better coder for knowing it, but opportunities for using it are very limited nowadays. Certainly I wouldn't recommend it as a first language.

    Assembly language programming requires a keen interest in coding and a lot of dedication.
    It's several orders of magnitude more complicated to do now than it used to be.
    It would be like learning woodwork, starting with cellular biology.

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    Jaqui

    why I mentioned the assembly language, it's not a very usefull language for most programming today.

    the VB sql server question wasn't is this a good tech, it was how to implement, which there are three different options.

    the two are more adding comlexity that isn't going to help them.
    the vb on linux connecting to sql server is complex, but it's not a learn a technology that isn't going to be of use.

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    Tony Hopkinson

    to make good choices at inception.
    We all know what happens if you make a poor choice at the start, after a certian point in the project, you get to live with it, no matter the consequences in terms of quality.

    Course a lot of the time the initial technology choices are made for non technology reasons.

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    yup

    Jaqui

    I just figured making a public comment about picking technologies will help people pick which to not ask about better, so they are not asking about technology that isn't so obviously wrong for their needs, or completely overkill for their intentions.

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    Tony Hopkinson

    with management and marketing, they tend to pick most wrong most often

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    SlappyMcnasty

    Whats wrong with learning a vendor technology stack? I have yet to read any of these "what should I do next" posts that addresses the tremendous career opportunities out there based on a vendor offering.
    I am talking about things like Tibco, IBM WebSphere (Message Broker and Process Server) or BEA AquaLogic. There is a market demand for these skills and they do pay well and they do build for the future.
    Now, flame on!

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    Tony Hopkinson

    you should learn the underlying technology first. That way, you have something to fall back on should the vendor disappear on you.

    The other problem with concentrating on vendor offerings is choices are based on the current market place. By the time you've learnt it, it could be dead, niched or worse still a common skill that you would be lucky to get a low pay job doing.

    A lot of vendor techs are poor choices to learn the basics. Look at the poor buggers who learnt OO with VB6 for instance.

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    Jaqui

    nothing, if you can guarantee that the time spent will be usefull in every position everywhere.

    learn the underlying technology for the listed products, and you have the knowledge to use the products, no matter what vendor solution it is. learn to use the products only, you are screwed if you are handed a different vendor's product to work with.

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    kfedee

    I agree. However most people do not know where they will end up in the next few years. I started out as a C++ programmer before I moved into databases, and now I am into networking. I think that people also need to take into account how the market is progressing.

    I think knowing a little bit of everything is benificial because who will give yourself options for the long run. However, you also need to be very good at one thing to cover yourself for today. Microsoft and cisco technologies will definitely be around for a long time and I would recommend that everyone at least master them or take refresher courses. VMWare, Exchange, Active Directory, RIS, etc are not going anywhere. There are plenty of training facilities that will allow you to master these technologies without having to go back to school. I just completed a course with techprosgroup.com which taught me things about Microsoft that I never new existed. It was brief and very compact focusing more on the how to use the technology rather than the why.

    So I do think that who need to think about a combination of both in order to be successful in the future. Places like attending Techprosgroup definitely helped me decide that.

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    Tony Hopkinson

    Administrator, DBA, web master, programmer, are good choices. Delphi, peoplesoft, VB6 , websphere are not, all vendor tech dies eventually and you have few options except staying on the version and certification merry go round while they expire.

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    Jaqui

    but look at the number of positions avvailable for MS certification holders, then look at the number of such with no job.

    here, an MS cert is useless, since 90% of those holding them are not employed in IT if at all.
    I see more interest in people with Unix skills than MS skills, the local shops add the ms skills as an afterthought to the job descriptions.
    [ and me being *x only, the ms skills requirement tells me they are to stupid to work with ]

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    SoTexCisco

    I have experience in electronics, database administration, networks, and programming. The last time that I was job hunting, I kept getting told that I was too much of a database administrator or too much of a programmer. I found myself trying to dumb down my experience so that I only knew what was required.

    How can I avoid this? Anybody else have this experience or am I the only one???

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    Neon Samurai

    I have a few comments here about Jack of all Trades being unemployable these days. I feel your pain.

    Too skilled, too general, too old, too young, too experienced, too inexperienced and just plain not what they are looking for; sometimes all in the same interview.

    It's worse than trying to find a date and that's taking into account how stereotypically "datable" us geeks tend to be.

    Your best bet it to get in through a friend (most people will be employed through "connections" rather than qualifications these days). If you can get a really detailed idea of the job and type of person they want then its resume tailoring.

    My favorite from the list above is; "If you?re that good, you should have no trouble finding a job. Oh, but sorry, your not what we?re looking for"

    I?d also be interested to know where all these great IT jobs I keep hearing about are hiding.

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    1) I am a jack of all trades too, and with the exception of the recession times of 2002, I have never lacked employment opportunities.

    2) I have found that if you can bring your experiences together coherently, good things happen. A lot of my job opportunities happened because they needed a programmer who could also manage their small network, or a network guy who could work with the database and write reports against the DB. And so on.

    3) Some osrt of resume magic happened a few years ago for me, and I stopped calling recruiters; they now call me. I cannot quite explain it, but maybe I finally got the "secret sauce" just right or something. Recruiters hound me, I have not cold called or sent a resume blindly in a while.

    4) A lot of the "jack of all trades" advantage comes from doing a lot of things, but doing each one for a while. Doing networking for a year, DBA work for a year, and programmer for a year is a lot more valuable than doing a mix of all three for three years. Why? Do something for a year, you know it at a deep level. Do the "everyday, something new" routine, and you don't actually know anything too well a lot of the time.

    5) Get a good mix of companies in there! I've worked in companies as small as 2 people (the owner and me) all ther way up to top F500 companies with $100b market caps. Big corporate experience shows that you know how to handle certain situations, small company work shows other types of skills.

    6) why are you applying for jobs that you are overqualified for? I tend to apply for jobs that I am just about qualified for, where I have the background, but not the experience. As a jack of all trades, employers see that I can learn quickly, and feel comfortable giving me jobs that I have not already done.

    J.Ja

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    Tony Hopkinson

    emphasise the needs, de-emphasise or omit anything else.

    It just confuses HR types.

    Must be different in the UK, very few people want specialists, certainly not to employ full time.

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    jkameleon

    They change all the time.

    What you need to learn and understand are the basics- mathematic, logic, information theory, and so on. Once you have the grasp of this, learning new language, or understanding a new technology is easy.

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    Jaqui

    the technology is the foundation for the PRODUCT. :)

    C++ is the product, the technology is programming concepts, practices, as well as mathematics, logic, relationships......

    administration of a system is administration, doesn't matter if it's on Sun's Solaris, Microshaft Server, Unix, HP-ux, Linux, Irix, openBSD, freeBSD, netBSD or PalmOS [ to just list a few os options ]

    Database design, for performance and reliability is the same no matter what engine.. MS SQLServer, Oracle, Sybase, MySQL, PostgreSQL, sqlite.....

    But the topic is more, how to pick what area to start with or to learn next.

    learn something just because it's the latest fad?
    no, learn it because it will improve your income level.

    learn something because a friend says to?
    only if it's something with a proven track record for being in demand.
    [ C++, C are good examples, Java is not. ]

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    Neon Samurai

    If I understand your post, that may be a more focused wording but point taken.

    I see two angles. If you learn the concepts rather than the indavidual thing then learning a new indavidual thing is an easy matter.

    Consider also that the more things and concepts you learn, the easier the new stuff becomes bacause your knowledge base provides so much support.

    IE. Most speak at least one language. If you learn a few frases from a second langauge, that's all you get but if you learn the concept (grammar, written form) the language becomes far easier to learn. Building still, the more languages, gramatical systems and written forms you learn, the easier new ones become to pick up; Learn french, spanish becomes easier or learn latin, many languages become easier.

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    zlitocook

    Depends on the job that I am at requires. If the company has an AIX server and apple computers I learn that. But I also pick things that are up and coming like XML with Ajax or what looks interesting. MS has been coming up with allot of new stuff, so I have been trying to learn it.
    But it is interesting that that the boot CD's or live CD's are keeping up with this.
    Maybe I need to learn to create my own live CD and sell it?

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    sach.jain

    I am strong proponent of idea that you should have knowledge of many things but master the one.
    That way you get the most out of it. For example if I have knowledge of C# and master of Java then I can develop something new of C# in Java.

    One should pick up any technology from roots If I say I am a Java Guy then I should be having load of working knowledge of it right from core level to application level. And I guess that comes from the work we do.
    Today we need to pick tecnology in terms of area like database/software development(we have full suite of application by SUN/MS)/App Servers etc. So expertise should be generic first then move to a particulat vendor. For example if I know DBMS/RDBMS concepts the be it oracle or sybase there won't be much time needed to move to a new thing.

    The era in software is moving towards frameworks, design patterns and interworking of solutions. Also, today technology is divied something like SUN platform or Microsoft technlogies. Expetise in either one is good. Some core things like C/C++/Unix would always be there..

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    Tony Hopkinson

    It's always been that way.
    Knowing C# or java syntax won't help you for crap if you can't program.
    Oracle or MS SQL, what use without database theory.

    VMS or Windows, admin is admin.

    All these things in terms of doing the job are flavours, so called fundamental differences are a joke perpetrated on us by an industry that wants us to buy the stuff they've made.

    Master semantics, gain experience in syntax. New technologies are a breeze after that.

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    Neon Samurai

    I'm finding little opertunity for IT work these days. Everyone seems to want a specialist; "You know four OS, programming and a bazillion deamons/apps? Sorry, we want a 'just-msSQL' guru."

    Being more a Jack of all Trades in IT (each week a new focus; systems to link, new OS to consume..) somehow seems to limit opertunities round these parts. Perhaps other places want highly knowledgable hires but round here it's a one trick pony's market.

    The general knowledge is extremely important but it seems you gotta have the latest buzz-word certification these days. "mcse" was the buzz-word last year, what is 2007's "mcse" or "compTIA"?

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    Neon Samurai

    For the express purpose of selling liveCD systems becomes questionable as most liveCD systems are GPL'd.

    For the express purpose of learning more, by all means, jump in and go (Mandriva Linux even has a mklive application).

    Learning more is never a bad idea, especially if it can be done for free and doesn't detract from your work.

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    All three taught me to think abstractly and laterally. Do I use pointers, recursion, functional programming or integrals? Not in the least. But their taught me ways of thinking that have served me extremely well throughout my life. Along those lines, I would also suggest "The Republic" by Plato, and at least one book by Nietzsche. If you can understand the true points of those items, you can do anything and go anywhere in life.

    J.Ja

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    alameh

    the proper usage of the English language, spelling words correctly, using proper capitalization, correct sentence structure and correct grammar and punctuation could come in handy at some time or another.

    [Or is i be wrongo?]

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    Tony Hopkinson

    with compilers they tend to be very literal and not at all forgiving of splelling mistakes

    Communication is the key, humans can cope with far more variances than programs. Language english or another is not precise enough for IT, so personally I'd say mathematics and logic were far more important.

    If you were hitting on Jacqui, he's not english, that's the way they talk over there.

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    alameh

    I agree with him. He made sense.

    I have a pet peeve about accurately communicating ideas and thoughts because I've been burned bad at work for not doing being able to do that well.

    He's not my type.

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    Tony Hopkinson

    waggling your eyebrows at me, when you said Jacqui wasn't your type, were you?.

    Spelling and grammar can add to accuracy, but they aren't as important as content.

    I saw a bare in the woods last week.

    Is accurate, what it does show, is you never learnt to spell in english, or the communication wasn't important enough to proof reed.

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    Neon Samurai

    Work or non-Tech communications means being clear in both content and grammar. You have to speak in terms the reader/listener can understand.

    Here among peers, if you understand what the person is saying; isn't content more important than a typo? My spelling and grammar are often terrible but talking tech would be a five or six hour conversation at minimum.

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    Tony Hopkinson

    is all it is.

    Writing a report for a manager is not an email to a colleague or a message to a peer on here.

    Look at it this way, they are looking for a mistake in your thinking. Seeing as most don't have the skills to challenge you technically, they go back on to safe ground, spelling and grammar.

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    Ashby

    I agree with you that abuse of the English language is becoming all too common - as in "I've been burned bad at work..." for example. "bad" is an adjective and should be used to qualify a noun. If you want to qualify a verb, you use an adverb, "badly" in this case, as in "I've been burned badly at work..." or better yet "I've been badly burned at work...".

    And no, I don't live in a glasshouse!

    Happy festive season to all, whatever particular celebration you observe.

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    Tony Hopkinson

    coders should be taught assembly.

    Actually those two posts weren't that bad. The scary one was the guy who wanted to get a vb6 front end to talk to sql server under wine.

    The assembly language guy, though I'd be interested in his mates justification for why he should learn assembler. I think I'm a better coder for knowing it, but opportunities for using it are very limited nowadays. Certainly I wouldn't recommend it as a first language.

    Assembly language programming requires a keen interest in coding and a lot of dedication.
    It's several orders of magnitude more complicated to do now than it used to be.
    It would be like learning woodwork, starting with cellular biology.

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    Jaqui

    why I mentioned the assembly language, it's not a very usefull language for most programming today.

    the VB sql server question wasn't is this a good tech, it was how to implement, which there are three different options.

    the two are more adding comlexity that isn't going to help them.
    the vb on linux connecting to sql server is complex, but it's not a learn a technology that isn't going to be of use.

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    0 Votes
    Tony Hopkinson

    to make good choices at inception.
    We all know what happens if you make a poor choice at the start, after a certian point in the project, you get to live with it, no matter the consequences in terms of quality.

    Course a lot of the time the initial technology choices are made for non technology reasons.

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    yup

    Jaqui

    I just figured making a public comment about picking technologies will help people pick which to not ask about better, so they are not asking about technology that isn't so obviously wrong for their needs, or completely overkill for their intentions.

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    Tony Hopkinson

    with management and marketing, they tend to pick most wrong most often

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    SlappyMcnasty

    Whats wrong with learning a vendor technology stack? I have yet to read any of these "what should I do next" posts that addresses the tremendous career opportunities out there based on a vendor offering.
    I am talking about things like Tibco, IBM WebSphere (Message Broker and Process Server) or BEA AquaLogic. There is a market demand for these skills and they do pay well and they do build for the future.
    Now, flame on!

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    0 Votes
    Tony Hopkinson

    you should learn the underlying technology first. That way, you have something to fall back on should the vendor disappear on you.

    The other problem with concentrating on vendor offerings is choices are based on the current market place. By the time you've learnt it, it could be dead, niched or worse still a common skill that you would be lucky to get a low pay job doing.

    A lot of vendor techs are poor choices to learn the basics. Look at the poor buggers who learnt OO with VB6 for instance.

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    0 Votes
    Jaqui

    nothing, if you can guarantee that the time spent will be usefull in every position everywhere.

    learn the underlying technology for the listed products, and you have the knowledge to use the products, no matter what vendor solution it is. learn to use the products only, you are screwed if you are handed a different vendor's product to work with.

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    0 Votes
    kfedee

    I agree. However most people do not know where they will end up in the next few years. I started out as a C++ programmer before I moved into databases, and now I am into networking. I think that people also need to take into account how the market is progressing.

    I think knowing a little bit of everything is benificial because who will give yourself options for the long run. However, you also need to be very good at one thing to cover yourself for today. Microsoft and cisco technologies will definitely be around for a long time and I would recommend that everyone at least master them or take refresher courses. VMWare, Exchange, Active Directory, RIS, etc are not going anywhere. There are plenty of training facilities that will allow you to master these technologies without having to go back to school. I just completed a course with techprosgroup.com which taught me things about Microsoft that I never new existed. It was brief and very compact focusing more on the how to use the technology rather than the why.

    So I do think that who need to think about a combination of both in order to be successful in the future. Places like attending Techprosgroup definitely helped me decide that.

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    0 Votes
    Tony Hopkinson

    Administrator, DBA, web master, programmer, are good choices. Delphi, peoplesoft, VB6 , websphere are not, all vendor tech dies eventually and you have few options except staying on the version and certification merry go round while they expire.

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    Jaqui

    but look at the number of positions avvailable for MS certification holders, then look at the number of such with no job.

    here, an MS cert is useless, since 90% of those holding them are not employed in IT if at all.
    I see more interest in people with Unix skills than MS skills, the local shops add the ms skills as an afterthought to the job descriptions.
    [ and me being *x only, the ms skills requirement tells me they are to stupid to work with ]

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    SoTexCisco

    I have experience in electronics, database administration, networks, and programming. The last time that I was job hunting, I kept getting told that I was too much of a database administrator or too much of a programmer. I found myself trying to dumb down my experience so that I only knew what was required.

    How can I avoid this? Anybody else have this experience or am I the only one???

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    0 Votes
    Neon Samurai

    I have a few comments here about Jack of all Trades being unemployable these days. I feel your pain.

    Too skilled, too general, too old, too young, too experienced, too inexperienced and just plain not what they are looking for; sometimes all in the same interview.

    It's worse than trying to find a date and that's taking into account how stereotypically "datable" us geeks tend to be.

    Your best bet it to get in through a friend (most people will be employed through "connections" rather than qualifications these days). If you can get a really detailed idea of the job and type of person they want then its resume tailoring.

    My favorite from the list above is; "If you?re that good, you should have no trouble finding a job. Oh, but sorry, your not what we?re looking for"

    I?d also be interested to know where all these great IT jobs I keep hearing about are hiding.

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    0 Votes

    1) I am a jack of all trades too, and with the exception of the recession times of 2002, I have never lacked employment opportunities.

    2) I have found that if you can bring your experiences together coherently, good things happen. A lot of my job opportunities happened because they needed a programmer who could also manage their small network, or a network guy who could work with the database and write reports against the DB. And so on.

    3) Some osrt of resume magic happened a few years ago for me, and I stopped calling recruiters; they now call me. I cannot quite explain it, but maybe I finally got the "secret sauce" just right or something. Recruiters hound me, I have not cold called or sent a resume blindly in a while.

    4) A lot of the "jack of all trades" advantage comes from doing a lot of things, but doing each one for a while. Doing networking for a year, DBA work for a year, and programmer for a year is a lot more valuable than doing a mix of all three for three years. Why? Do something for a year, you know it at a deep level. Do the "everyday, something new" routine, and you don't actually know anything too well a lot of the time.

    5) Get a good mix of companies in there! I've worked in companies as small as 2 people (the owner and me) all ther way up to top F500 companies with $100b market caps. Big corporate experience shows that you know how to handle certain situations, small company work shows other types of skills.

    6) why are you applying for jobs that you are overqualified for? I tend to apply for jobs that I am just about qualified for, where I have the background, but not the experience. As a jack of all trades, employers see that I can learn quickly, and feel comfortable giving me jobs that I have not already done.

    J.Ja

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    Tony Hopkinson

    emphasise the needs, de-emphasise or omit anything else.

    It just confuses HR types.

    Must be different in the UK, very few people want specialists, certainly not to employ full time.

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    0 Votes
    jkameleon

    They change all the time.

    What you need to learn and understand are the basics- mathematic, logic, information theory, and so on. Once you have the grasp of this, learning new language, or understanding a new technology is easy.

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    0 Votes
    Jaqui

    the technology is the foundation for the PRODUCT. :)

    C++ is the product, the technology is programming concepts, practices, as well as mathematics, logic, relationships......

    administration of a system is administration, doesn't matter if it's on Sun's Solaris, Microshaft Server, Unix, HP-ux, Linux, Irix, openBSD, freeBSD, netBSD or PalmOS [ to just list a few os options ]

    Database design, for performance and reliability is the same no matter what engine.. MS SQLServer, Oracle, Sybase, MySQL, PostgreSQL, sqlite.....

    But the topic is more, how to pick what area to start with or to learn next.

    learn something just because it's the latest fad?
    no, learn it because it will improve your income level.

    learn something because a friend says to?
    only if it's something with a proven track record for being in demand.
    [ C++, C are good examples, Java is not. ]

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    0 Votes
    Neon Samurai

    If I understand your post, that may be a more focused wording but point taken.

    I see two angles. If you learn the concepts rather than the indavidual thing then learning a new indavidual thing is an easy matter.

    Consider also that the more things and concepts you learn, the easier the new stuff becomes bacause your knowledge base provides so much support.

    IE. Most speak at least one language. If you learn a few frases from a second langauge, that's all you get but if you learn the concept (grammar, written form) the language becomes far easier to learn. Building still, the more languages, gramatical systems and written forms you learn, the easier new ones become to pick up; Learn french, spanish becomes easier or learn latin, many languages become easier.

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    0 Votes
    zlitocook

    Depends on the job that I am at requires. If the company has an AIX server and apple computers I learn that. But I also pick things that are up and coming like XML with Ajax or what looks interesting. MS has been coming up with allot of new stuff, so I have been trying to learn it.
    But it is interesting that that the boot CD's or live CD's are keeping up with this.
    Maybe I need to learn to create my own live CD and sell it?

    +
    0 Votes
    sach.jain

    I am strong proponent of idea that you should have knowledge of many things but master the one.
    That way you get the most out of it. For example if I have knowledge of C# and master of Java then I can develop something new of C# in Java.

    One should pick up any technology from roots If I say I am a Java Guy then I should be having load of working knowledge of it right from core level to application level. And I guess that comes from the work we do.
    Today we need to pick tecnology in terms of area like database/software development(we have full suite of application by SUN/MS)/App Servers etc. So expertise should be generic first then move to a particulat vendor. For example if I know DBMS/RDBMS concepts the be it oracle or sybase there won't be much time needed to move to a new thing.

    The era in software is moving towards frameworks, design patterns and interworking of solutions. Also, today technology is divied something like SUN platform or Microsoft technlogies. Expetise in either one is good. Some core things like C/C++/Unix would always be there..

    +
    0 Votes
    Tony Hopkinson

    It's always been that way.
    Knowing C# or java syntax won't help you for crap if you can't program.
    Oracle or MS SQL, what use without database theory.

    VMS or Windows, admin is admin.

    All these things in terms of doing the job are flavours, so called fundamental differences are a joke perpetrated on us by an industry that wants us to buy the stuff they've made.

    Master semantics, gain experience in syntax. New technologies are a breeze after that.

    +
    0 Votes
    Neon Samurai

    I'm finding little opertunity for IT work these days. Everyone seems to want a specialist; "You know four OS, programming and a bazillion deamons/apps? Sorry, we want a 'just-msSQL' guru."

    Being more a Jack of all Trades in IT (each week a new focus; systems to link, new OS to consume..) somehow seems to limit opertunities round these parts. Perhaps other places want highly knowledgable hires but round here it's a one trick pony's market.

    The general knowledge is extremely important but it seems you gotta have the latest buzz-word certification these days. "mcse" was the buzz-word last year, what is 2007's "mcse" or "compTIA"?

    +
    0 Votes
    Neon Samurai

    For the express purpose of selling liveCD systems becomes questionable as most liveCD systems are GPL'd.

    For the express purpose of learning more, by all means, jump in and go (Mandriva Linux even has a mklive application).

    Learning more is never a bad idea, especially if it can be done for free and doesn't detract from your work.

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    All three taught me to think abstractly and laterally. Do I use pointers, recursion, functional programming or integrals? Not in the least. But their taught me ways of thinking that have served me extremely well throughout my life. Along those lines, I would also suggest "The Republic" by Plato, and at least one book by Nietzsche. If you can understand the true points of those items, you can do anything and go anywhere in life.

    J.Ja

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    alameh

    the proper usage of the English language, spelling words correctly, using proper capitalization, correct sentence structure and correct grammar and punctuation could come in handy at some time or another.

    [Or is i be wrongo?]

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    Tony Hopkinson

    with compilers they tend to be very literal and not at all forgiving of splelling mistakes

    Communication is the key, humans can cope with far more variances than programs. Language english or another is not precise enough for IT, so personally I'd say mathematics and logic were far more important.

    If you were hitting on Jacqui, he's not english, that's the way they talk over there.

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    alameh

    I agree with him. He made sense.

    I have a pet peeve about accurately communicating ideas and thoughts because I've been burned bad at work for not doing being able to do that well.

    He's not my type.

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    Tony Hopkinson

    waggling your eyebrows at me, when you said Jacqui wasn't your type, were you?.

    Spelling and grammar can add to accuracy, but they aren't as important as content.

    I saw a bare in the woods last week.

    Is accurate, what it does show, is you never learnt to spell in english, or the communication wasn't important enough to proof reed.

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    Neon Samurai

    Work or non-Tech communications means being clear in both content and grammar. You have to speak in terms the reader/listener can understand.

    Here among peers, if you understand what the person is saying; isn't content more important than a typo? My spelling and grammar are often terrible but talking tech would be a five or six hour conversation at minimum.

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    Tony Hopkinson

    is all it is.

    Writing a report for a manager is not an email to a colleague or a message to a peer on here.

    Look at it this way, they are looking for a mistake in your thinking. Seeing as most don't have the skills to challenge you technically, they go back on to safe ground, spelling and grammar.

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    Ashby

    I agree with you that abuse of the English language is becoming all too common - as in "I've been burned bad at work..." for example. "bad" is an adjective and should be used to qualify a noun. If you want to qualify a verb, you use an adverb, "badly" in this case, as in "I've been burned badly at work..." or better yet "I've been badly burned at work...".

    And no, I don't live in a glasshouse!

    Happy festive season to all, whatever particular celebration you observe.