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Quest to Build an Almost-Future-Proof PC - Need Help with Parts - Please!

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Quest to Build an Almost-Future-Proof PC - Need Help with Parts - Please!

offtherails2010
Hello and thanks in advance for all help given!

2 Problems;

1. I desperately want to build a pc with a dual CPU motherboard but my problem is that i already have 8 x 4096 DDR3 1333 Mhz (32GB) of corsair ram and want a mobo capeable of using all of it but with more space so i can install more later.

-The ram is NOT ECC, its unbuffered & non-ecc.

I have seen an intel board (Workstation Board) that came close but i have searched high & low and cant even find any dual CPU mobo anymore...
Another i have come across is made by a company called Tyan but again its a very old mobo (2002) and it doesn't support unbuffered DDR3.

2. I also need help on finding a CPU, preferebly an Intel Dual-Core. But the CPU MUST have 4MB L2 cache Minimum & doesn't cost an arm and a leg as i'll be needing two of them.
-The CPU must also be capable of using all this ram and more in its specs, as i have noticed with the i7 - it only supports upto 16GB of Ram and thats why i wont buy any i7 cpu...

I get dizzy a lot due to my medical condition and so cannot spend the amount of continuous hours i used-to hunting for parts and whenever i am stuck and need advice, i know that this is the best place to seek it from the best of the best around the globe, so here i am again with another hair-brained scheme for a super computer!

Please could anyone suggest a decent Motherboard and CPU from the criteria above, i would be humbly appreciative of any/all help given!
  • +
    1 Votes
    Slayer_

    I remember reading about a new material they descovered, that when used to make processors, achieved speeds into the 10ghz range.
    If this becomes real, your future proof PC will look as dated as a 486.

    +
    0 Votes
    offtherails2010

    not kidding it'll make my pc look like an old 486!

    +
    0 Votes
    offtherails2010

    Judging from the rate us mere humans are advancing technology, i am trying to hopefully make my pc still keep-up with the cpu's of the future. Intel have only just released thier new sandy bridge cpu (thanks for the link seanferd) and at the 22nm manufacturing process of the semiconductor, the cpu i am looking for (or should i say afford) is 32nm....

    The link below shows an estimated time scale of the next generation cpu's and what i'm trying to do is build an extremey quick system and have it keep up with whats coming next (yup yup, i know, i know, its almost impossible! lol)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22_nanometer

    +
    1 Votes
    seanferd

    Or otherwise look for the processing power which meets your requirements - regardless of cores or number of physical CPUs. Then you can look for a board which supports 8 x 4096 DDR3 1333 Mhz RAM (or more) and appropriate processor(s).

    Between 8 and 12 slots for RAM is all you will probably find, but not necessarily for DDR3.

    A two processor board with more than 8 DDR3 slots (12 or 18, probably) is sounding an awful lot like a server board, but Xeon processors may not be optimal for whatever it is you do on your PC which requires such amounts of RAM and processor power.

    You can try tailoring searches, like:
    http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&q=DDR+3+8+slot+board
    But check against to total RAM - you may have 8 (or 12) slots, but only support for 1 or 2 GB per slot.

    It is difficult, but you have difficult requirements. You may want to look at http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Components,1/Motherboards,2/ to help sort out what meets your needs best. Once you have a better idea, you can ask questions in the forum there, where a community dedicated to building PCs can better and more readily answer your questions.

    Still, check back here. Some members are quite knowledgeable in the PC-building department. (<i>Col, I'm looking at you, here.</i> )

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    0 Votes
    offtherails2010

    Again i am amazed at the speed of your response!
    Very much appreciated!

    Such a simple thing as adding the extra plus's in the google search and you've helped me eliminate hours and hours of manually sifting through websites! Always learning!

    I think i have found a marriage with cpu and mobo, both on the intel website for the info;

    CPU (Times Two!)
    http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=48768

    Mobo
    http://www.intel.com/products/workstation/motherboards/s5520sc/s5520sc-overview.htm

    My primary use for this caliber computer is for games, i already have a middle-of-the-road built AMD pc with Asus Crosshair II, 8gb DDR2 800mhz, 7580 cpu, 4 SSD's in RAID-0 and 1GB graphics card (but the system in showing its age moderately with some games, in another year it'll definately be showing its age as old!) but secondary is a small business me and a pal are considering to setup, we have had a few 'dry-runs' with providing music video's for local DJ's and wedding video's edited with Adobe's After Effects (Around the ??800 mark for that alone-not good).

    With the games I dont want any slow downs and extremely quick loading (as do we all !) although much to do with games is to do with the graphics card/s, i was thinking of two nvidia cards, want another 2 montiors on top of the 2 i have, i also repair pc's and multitasking is bliss with extra screens taking a little less time switching between programs as on a single screen setup...

    My friends computer is an imac with 16GB of 1066mhz ram and the i7 but even that is taking upto 4-6 days of rendering graphics and we are thinking that if and when we do get serious about this business, we're going to need a pc that'll dwarf the processing and memory power of a mac (hopefully, if not a little too ambitious!) He deals with the expensive video recording equipment and my 2nd love is for computers/hardware/software/OS's etc etc !

    Again i applaud your swift speed in replying to another of my dilemma's, i will still check out tomshardware.com link you gave in the morning (02:05am by the time i send this mail!)
    many many thanks!

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    1 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    A Server and a Desktop M'Board?

    The M'Board you have listed has no sound limited expansion capabilities and very low end Video Options. It's hardly Future Proof in any form when you look at 4 Video Cards in a Crossfire array that the higher end Desktop M'Boards currently support.

    All of the current higher end M'Boards support 2, 3 or 4 Video Cards in a Crossfire or nVidia's arraignment and fit in a standard Case with On Board sound that is HD at the very least.

    The M'Board you have listed needs a special Case which comes with Redundant Power Supplies as an Extra and very little room for important things like Video & Sound Cards. Not to mention requiring Special Cooling Devices for the CPU/s which again are not part of the CPU when you buy them.

    What exactly is it you want to do with this system?

    And probably more importantly how long do you want to future proof it?

    Col

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    0 Votes
    offtherails2010

    i totally understand the difference between server and desktop mobo's but what im going to attempt to try to build a pc that i can upgrade and update as pc parts become cheaper for the pocket over time, eg, a 4gb ddr3 ecc memory module costs around ??50 but an 8gb module costs around ??200 (DDR3 1333mhz ECC) and i just cant afford 12 stick of the latter! Basically as the tech gets cheaper, i'll be able to upgrade the ram at least, as time goes by and newer, faster technologies appear.

    a short quick example of the latest sandy bridge cpu is made/manufactured at a 22nm process thus making it faster/more efficient, and the link below is a rough guide for the next generations of cpu...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22_nanometer

    What i intend to do with this setup is use it for intesive gaming, sometimes lasting for 24hrs+. but me and a pal are conidering starting a business in the future and he deals with video editing and graphical rendering.... He has an imac with the i7 cpu and 16gb of 1066mhz DDR3 ram but he's forever complaining that its taking him 4-6 days to complete just one render of video that when complete only plays for 4-5 minutes...

    So here i am tring to build a powerful pc desktop to deal with his problem of cutting down rendering times.

    i also checked out that the mobo from my link has its onboard sound rated at 7.1 HD, this will be sufficcient for us and it had 2 pci-x (x16) slots for graphics cards which made it an ideal choice.

    Now i only have 'A Plus' under my belt so i know more or less the basics and have built 10+ pc's but i am still learning!

    Q: You say that i need to use a special PSU for this board, can i not use a gaming one, specs of 1200w from the likes of corsair/ocz/coolermaster?

    many thanks for any replies and constructive criticism is most-welcome!

    +
    1 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    These Dual Xeon M'Boards with on-board SCSI are very big M'Boards and do not fit into a Standard Case. They are too long from front to back to fit into a Standard Case if you leave the Drive Mounts in Place.

    Depending on the case most require you to remove all of the 2.5 inch mounts and most of the 3.5 inch mounts as well.

    I maybe should also just add I do work for a company who renders Video for the Movies and with their 6,000 CPU Blade running SUSE it's not unusual to spend 3 weeks to render 30 seconds of Video. Rendering Video is neither fast or easy it's very time consuming and complicated particularly if you have any water involved and want it to look realistic.

    With those Intel Server Boards and Cases they have 2 power supplies in them the main one plugs straight into the M'Board with both the 24 PIN ATX and a 8 Pin Supplementary 12 V Lead which most domestic Power Supplies don't have and then the Backup or Redundant Power Supply plugs into the Main Power Supply and as they are Specials built for the Intel Server Cases you can not generally speaking use a Domestic Desktop Power Supply in one of those cases without extensive metal work in cutting out to fit the single power supply and then blocking off the extra hole for the Backup Power Supply.

    The Xeon CPU's Do Not come with a heat Sink or Fan and these are Optional Extras after you buy the CPU. Even then with some Dual M'Boards you need to use Passive heat Sinks and have large case fans blowing air in the front and sucking air out the back of the case. Intel only has available U Cases so if you what something that looks like a Desktop Case you need to find one and these are hard come by these days as not many make them any more. Antec used to and they stopped 6 or so years ago and Zalman had a Fanless Server Case which I also haven't seen for many years now. The Zalman Cases where great and at only about a 1K each without the PS where reasonably cheap for what they where. Of course the Fanless Zalman PS for those Cases was about another $500.00 but the 2 units involved where the best that I've ever used.

    Also are you sure that this Server Board will use your existing RAM Modules generally speaking Server Boards use EEC Memory which is also a lot more expensive than the non EEC or sometimes called Parity Checked Memory.

    If the board isn't using EEC RAM it's going to be a lot slower and no where near as powerful as a similar chip set that requires EEC RAM. Typically EEC RAM costs about the same as the Corsair Dominator Series RAM or more and comes in smaller sizes. Of course they also power the system to do some serious Number Crunching and those systems where never designed to idle away for any length of time.

    I have a Dual Xeon Board here with RAM only 16 GIG which is all it takes and my problem is the Backing Plate only comes with the Intel Case which isn't suitable for my needs so I have to break out the Backing Plate on a very good and old Antec Server Case and leave a gapping hole in the back. For that reason the M'Board with RAM, Active Heat Sinks and CPU's has been sitting in it's box not being used but with the Dual Chanel SCSI it can nearly use all of the 23 External Drive Slots available in the case.

    Col

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    0 Votes
    JamesRL

    I have a contact who buys off lease Dell Precision workstations, and when I feel the need to upgrade, I buy from him.

    My current model is this: http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/ws490/en/ug/geninfo.htm#wp1060065

    But, my coworker, who also had this model, built his own i7 machine and its much faster. Two years ago, I paid $450 for mine with 4GB of RAM and 2 Xeon dual core 2.0 Ghz processors. One downside is that it only has one video card slot, so you have to buy one fast video card instead of 2 reasonably fast ones.

    You can find these on ebay.

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    0 Votes
    offtherails2010

    Many thanks for your advice, it is Greatly Appreciated !

    For the case i have had my eye on the one in the link below;

    http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_spec.php?pno=tj05&area=usa

    Its called the TJ05 and can support my huge mobo size
    (Form Factor - SSI EEB {12??? x 13???}) As i really want a side window in the case too.

    I'll definately take your advice on the ram, i'll go and grab as much DDR3 ecc memoery as i can afford, the non ecc 4gb modules i have can go for new system builds, i should have another 2 pc's to build for my pals very soon! If i want this thing to be at its peak 'quickness' its'll have to be ecc.

    Now the PSU issue is where it all falls down for me? i cant seem to find any server based psu's with the redundant back up? Please would you be able to post one or two suggestions but teying to keep the costs as low as possible to meet the requirements of say, 48gb ram (12 x sticks DDR3), 4 SSD's, 1TB HDD, 2 x 1GB nvidia vga cards (pci-e) and 2 cpu's ?
    I know trying to ask to keep the price low in almost impossible for what im wanting to build - but i dont think i'll be back to work at all this whole year, cant walk atm so cash is a little sparse!

    many many thanks again for your input !

    +
    0 Votes
    offtherails2010

    Also i have been using a liquid cooling system for my CPU and VGA card for the last 4 years continuous - MY pc does not switch off! i do give it the occasional restart every few days but with the liquid cooling system (LCS) all i have had to replace was the 120mm fan - which was only replaced a month or two ago, along with a coolant change every 8 months to a year (only 1 top-up of coolant made per year) !

    The unit i am using id a thermaltake Bigwater 780 (it takes up 3 x 5.25" drive bays)
    and my cpu temp at idle is always 30 degress and at full gaming load (with 2 virtual PC's running in the background!) wont budge above 45 degrees!

    On that note i am building a liqued cooling unit from scratch to get the temps alot lower, but thats a tangent i dont wanna get into just yet - a set of Q's for another day!

    +
    0 Votes
    offtherails2010

    So i'll probably be using 2 waterblocks from Zalman for the 2 cpu's ( Socket LGA1366) !

  • +
    1 Votes
    Slayer_

    I remember reading about a new material they descovered, that when used to make processors, achieved speeds into the 10ghz range.
    If this becomes real, your future proof PC will look as dated as a 486.

    +
    0 Votes
    offtherails2010

    not kidding it'll make my pc look like an old 486!

    +
    0 Votes
    offtherails2010

    Judging from the rate us mere humans are advancing technology, i am trying to hopefully make my pc still keep-up with the cpu's of the future. Intel have only just released thier new sandy bridge cpu (thanks for the link seanferd) and at the 22nm manufacturing process of the semiconductor, the cpu i am looking for (or should i say afford) is 32nm....

    The link below shows an estimated time scale of the next generation cpu's and what i'm trying to do is build an extremey quick system and have it keep up with whats coming next (yup yup, i know, i know, its almost impossible! lol)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22_nanometer

    +
    1 Votes
    seanferd

    Or otherwise look for the processing power which meets your requirements - regardless of cores or number of physical CPUs. Then you can look for a board which supports 8 x 4096 DDR3 1333 Mhz RAM (or more) and appropriate processor(s).

    Between 8 and 12 slots for RAM is all you will probably find, but not necessarily for DDR3.

    A two processor board with more than 8 DDR3 slots (12 or 18, probably) is sounding an awful lot like a server board, but Xeon processors may not be optimal for whatever it is you do on your PC which requires such amounts of RAM and processor power.

    You can try tailoring searches, like:
    http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&q=DDR+3+8+slot+board
    But check against to total RAM - you may have 8 (or 12) slots, but only support for 1 or 2 GB per slot.

    It is difficult, but you have difficult requirements. You may want to look at http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Components,1/Motherboards,2/ to help sort out what meets your needs best. Once you have a better idea, you can ask questions in the forum there, where a community dedicated to building PCs can better and more readily answer your questions.

    Still, check back here. Some members are quite knowledgeable in the PC-building department. (<i>Col, I'm looking at you, here.</i> )

    +
    0 Votes
    offtherails2010

    Again i am amazed at the speed of your response!
    Very much appreciated!

    Such a simple thing as adding the extra plus's in the google search and you've helped me eliminate hours and hours of manually sifting through websites! Always learning!

    I think i have found a marriage with cpu and mobo, both on the intel website for the info;

    CPU (Times Two!)
    http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=48768

    Mobo
    http://www.intel.com/products/workstation/motherboards/s5520sc/s5520sc-overview.htm

    My primary use for this caliber computer is for games, i already have a middle-of-the-road built AMD pc with Asus Crosshair II, 8gb DDR2 800mhz, 7580 cpu, 4 SSD's in RAID-0 and 1GB graphics card (but the system in showing its age moderately with some games, in another year it'll definately be showing its age as old!) but secondary is a small business me and a pal are considering to setup, we have had a few 'dry-runs' with providing music video's for local DJ's and wedding video's edited with Adobe's After Effects (Around the ??800 mark for that alone-not good).

    With the games I dont want any slow downs and extremely quick loading (as do we all !) although much to do with games is to do with the graphics card/s, i was thinking of two nvidia cards, want another 2 montiors on top of the 2 i have, i also repair pc's and multitasking is bliss with extra screens taking a little less time switching between programs as on a single screen setup...

    My friends computer is an imac with 16GB of 1066mhz ram and the i7 but even that is taking upto 4-6 days of rendering graphics and we are thinking that if and when we do get serious about this business, we're going to need a pc that'll dwarf the processing and memory power of a mac (hopefully, if not a little too ambitious!) He deals with the expensive video recording equipment and my 2nd love is for computers/hardware/software/OS's etc etc !

    Again i applaud your swift speed in replying to another of my dilemma's, i will still check out tomshardware.com link you gave in the morning (02:05am by the time i send this mail!)
    many many thanks!

    +
    1 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    A Server and a Desktop M'Board?

    The M'Board you have listed has no sound limited expansion capabilities and very low end Video Options. It's hardly Future Proof in any form when you look at 4 Video Cards in a Crossfire array that the higher end Desktop M'Boards currently support.

    All of the current higher end M'Boards support 2, 3 or 4 Video Cards in a Crossfire or nVidia's arraignment and fit in a standard Case with On Board sound that is HD at the very least.

    The M'Board you have listed needs a special Case which comes with Redundant Power Supplies as an Extra and very little room for important things like Video & Sound Cards. Not to mention requiring Special Cooling Devices for the CPU/s which again are not part of the CPU when you buy them.

    What exactly is it you want to do with this system?

    And probably more importantly how long do you want to future proof it?

    Col

    +
    0 Votes
    offtherails2010

    i totally understand the difference between server and desktop mobo's but what im going to attempt to try to build a pc that i can upgrade and update as pc parts become cheaper for the pocket over time, eg, a 4gb ddr3 ecc memory module costs around ??50 but an 8gb module costs around ??200 (DDR3 1333mhz ECC) and i just cant afford 12 stick of the latter! Basically as the tech gets cheaper, i'll be able to upgrade the ram at least, as time goes by and newer, faster technologies appear.

    a short quick example of the latest sandy bridge cpu is made/manufactured at a 22nm process thus making it faster/more efficient, and the link below is a rough guide for the next generations of cpu...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22_nanometer

    What i intend to do with this setup is use it for intesive gaming, sometimes lasting for 24hrs+. but me and a pal are conidering starting a business in the future and he deals with video editing and graphical rendering.... He has an imac with the i7 cpu and 16gb of 1066mhz DDR3 ram but he's forever complaining that its taking him 4-6 days to complete just one render of video that when complete only plays for 4-5 minutes...

    So here i am tring to build a powerful pc desktop to deal with his problem of cutting down rendering times.

    i also checked out that the mobo from my link has its onboard sound rated at 7.1 HD, this will be sufficcient for us and it had 2 pci-x (x16) slots for graphics cards which made it an ideal choice.

    Now i only have 'A Plus' under my belt so i know more or less the basics and have built 10+ pc's but i am still learning!

    Q: You say that i need to use a special PSU for this board, can i not use a gaming one, specs of 1200w from the likes of corsair/ocz/coolermaster?

    many thanks for any replies and constructive criticism is most-welcome!

    +
    1 Votes
    HAL 9000 Moderator

    These Dual Xeon M'Boards with on-board SCSI are very big M'Boards and do not fit into a Standard Case. They are too long from front to back to fit into a Standard Case if you leave the Drive Mounts in Place.

    Depending on the case most require you to remove all of the 2.5 inch mounts and most of the 3.5 inch mounts as well.

    I maybe should also just add I do work for a company who renders Video for the Movies and with their 6,000 CPU Blade running SUSE it's not unusual to spend 3 weeks to render 30 seconds of Video. Rendering Video is neither fast or easy it's very time consuming and complicated particularly if you have any water involved and want it to look realistic.

    With those Intel Server Boards and Cases they have 2 power supplies in them the main one plugs straight into the M'Board with both the 24 PIN ATX and a 8 Pin Supplementary 12 V Lead which most domestic Power Supplies don't have and then the Backup or Redundant Power Supply plugs into the Main Power Supply and as they are Specials built for the Intel Server Cases you can not generally speaking use a Domestic Desktop Power Supply in one of those cases without extensive metal work in cutting out to fit the single power supply and then blocking off the extra hole for the Backup Power Supply.

    The Xeon CPU's Do Not come with a heat Sink or Fan and these are Optional Extras after you buy the CPU. Even then with some Dual M'Boards you need to use Passive heat Sinks and have large case fans blowing air in the front and sucking air out the back of the case. Intel only has available U Cases so if you what something that looks like a Desktop Case you need to find one and these are hard come by these days as not many make them any more. Antec used to and they stopped 6 or so years ago and Zalman had a Fanless Server Case which I also haven't seen for many years now. The Zalman Cases where great and at only about a 1K each without the PS where reasonably cheap for what they where. Of course the Fanless Zalman PS for those Cases was about another $500.00 but the 2 units involved where the best that I've ever used.

    Also are you sure that this Server Board will use your existing RAM Modules generally speaking Server Boards use EEC Memory which is also a lot more expensive than the non EEC or sometimes called Parity Checked Memory.

    If the board isn't using EEC RAM it's going to be a lot slower and no where near as powerful as a similar chip set that requires EEC RAM. Typically EEC RAM costs about the same as the Corsair Dominator Series RAM or more and comes in smaller sizes. Of course they also power the system to do some serious Number Crunching and those systems where never designed to idle away for any length of time.

    I have a Dual Xeon Board here with RAM only 16 GIG which is all it takes and my problem is the Backing Plate only comes with the Intel Case which isn't suitable for my needs so I have to break out the Backing Plate on a very good and old Antec Server Case and leave a gapping hole in the back. For that reason the M'Board with RAM, Active Heat Sinks and CPU's has been sitting in it's box not being used but with the Dual Chanel SCSI it can nearly use all of the 23 External Drive Slots available in the case.

    Col

    +
    0 Votes
    JamesRL

    I have a contact who buys off lease Dell Precision workstations, and when I feel the need to upgrade, I buy from him.

    My current model is this: http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/ws490/en/ug/geninfo.htm#wp1060065

    But, my coworker, who also had this model, built his own i7 machine and its much faster. Two years ago, I paid $450 for mine with 4GB of RAM and 2 Xeon dual core 2.0 Ghz processors. One downside is that it only has one video card slot, so you have to buy one fast video card instead of 2 reasonably fast ones.

    You can find these on ebay.

    +
    0 Votes
    offtherails2010

    Many thanks for your advice, it is Greatly Appreciated !

    For the case i have had my eye on the one in the link below;

    http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_spec.php?pno=tj05&area=usa

    Its called the TJ05 and can support my huge mobo size
    (Form Factor - SSI EEB {12??? x 13???}) As i really want a side window in the case too.

    I'll definately take your advice on the ram, i'll go and grab as much DDR3 ecc memoery as i can afford, the non ecc 4gb modules i have can go for new system builds, i should have another 2 pc's to build for my pals very soon! If i want this thing to be at its peak 'quickness' its'll have to be ecc.

    Now the PSU issue is where it all falls down for me? i cant seem to find any server based psu's with the redundant back up? Please would you be able to post one or two suggestions but teying to keep the costs as low as possible to meet the requirements of say, 48gb ram (12 x sticks DDR3), 4 SSD's, 1TB HDD, 2 x 1GB nvidia vga cards (pci-e) and 2 cpu's ?
    I know trying to ask to keep the price low in almost impossible for what im wanting to build - but i dont think i'll be back to work at all this whole year, cant walk atm so cash is a little sparse!

    many many thanks again for your input !

    +
    0 Votes
    offtherails2010

    Also i have been using a liquid cooling system for my CPU and VGA card for the last 4 years continuous - MY pc does not switch off! i do give it the occasional restart every few days but with the liquid cooling system (LCS) all i have had to replace was the 120mm fan - which was only replaced a month or two ago, along with a coolant change every 8 months to a year (only 1 top-up of coolant made per year) !

    The unit i am using id a thermaltake Bigwater 780 (it takes up 3 x 5.25" drive bays)
    and my cpu temp at idle is always 30 degress and at full gaming load (with 2 virtual PC's running in the background!) wont budge above 45 degrees!

    On that note i am building a liqued cooling unit from scratch to get the temps alot lower, but thats a tangent i dont wanna get into just yet - a set of Q's for another day!

    +
    0 Votes
    offtherails2010

    So i'll probably be using 2 waterblocks from Zalman for the 2 cpu's ( Socket LGA1366) !