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Since when were MCSEs' required to be VBScript or ASP.NET experts?

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Since when were MCSEs' required to be VBScript or ASP.NET experts?

Big Ole Jack
I'm seeing more and more jobs out there requiring MCSE certification as well as expert knowledge in VBScript and ASP.NET. Not any one of the cert exams touches on scripting, nor do I believe that Microsoft even requires scripting knowledge of MCSEs'. Are prospective employers confused as to the difference between server/OS engineers and developers, who I see as being scripting and ASP.NET experts? How many of you out there are MCSEs' and also experts in scripting or know someone who is? If scripting should be a required skills among MCSEs', shouldn't Microsoft require it to be included in its MCSE curriculum? What are your thoughts?
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cmiller5400

I am not an MCSE, but I am studying to be one. I think that scripting can definitely help in the job and has its places, but ASP.NET should not be required. Scripting is one thing, writing websites is another. In my opinion, a small section of the basics on VBScript is all that is needed. If we can get an MCSE, we should be able to pick up scripting fairly easily.

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Big Ole Jack

I use 3rd party tools like ASE from ITripoli to write my scripts. I think there should be some sort of public outcry or backlash against ignorant employers who are requiring a rediculous list of scripting requirements on top of the basic MSCE certification and hardware knowledge. This goes back to my previous rants about annoying recruiters who blast me with jobs that require the "ideal" candidate to be an MCSE, website developer, Cisco Engineer, DBA, and everything else under the sun, for the price of a desktop support position.

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Big Ole Jack

Wanted: Professional truck driver with microsurgery experience. Yeah..good luck with that one!

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Big Ole Jack

Dear Jack,
Our direct client, a firm based in New York, is looking for an Active Directory /Exchange Analyst. Salary: DOE
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I would appreciate the opportunity to speak with you further and see if this position might be of interest to you. If interested please send me you updated resume or please give me a call at your earliest convenience
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JOB DESCRIPTION
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Ability to design, build, AND implement Active Directory and Exchange
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Experience integrating Exchange with voice systems <B>"Excuse Me but MCSEs' don't do voice mail systems!"</B>
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Network experience (routing designs, communications carriers, routing protocols to support failover scenarios) <B>"Now they wan't a CCIE ontop of an MCSE?"</B>
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A plus is experience with MPLS networks, and multi-vendor/partner models. <B>"MPLS? Sorry, but they don't teach that in MCSE school!"</B>
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Thank you.
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Fawad <B>"More like Dickwad"</B><p>
Recruiter, Technology Division<p>
PRI Technology,420 Madison Avenue<p>
15th Floor,N Y, New York 10017<p>
Tel: 917-470-9692<p>
Fax: 917-386-2760<p>
fawad@pritechnology.com<p>
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$500 referral fee - if you refer friends,colleagues or family members that ends up getting one of our positions, you will receive $500 from PRI Technology after their 90th day on the job! Not valid for third parties. <B>"Refer who? I don't any one person who does all of these things!"</B>

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Kjell_Andorsen

I doubt they're looking for an MCSE specifically. Sounds like they're looking for a Systems Engineer, and while Systems Engineer is part of the MCSE title, knowing just the stuff you learn studying for the MCSE does not make you a real-world Systems engineer.

As I said earlier, in real life the MCSE will only teach you part of what you need to know to be a Systems Administrator or Engineer. The job description listed seems pretty reasonable to me for a senior level Systems/Network engineer to me, as data and voice networks become more converged you can bet your sweet *** that Network admins will be expected to know at least the basics of VOIP and PBX administration.

As far as understanding routing you should know the basics at least from the 70-291 and 70-293 Exams, again for Senior-level positions (the ones that pay good money) you'll be expected to know more than what's taught for the MCSE courses.

I dunno, I mean what exactly do you expect? That you'll get a job that only covers things you studied for your MCSE?

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Big Ole Jack

I've tried reading books published by MS Press and all it did was put me to sleep. Do you recommend any other books other than by MS Press to quickly learn VBScript and WMI?

Thanks.

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cmiller5400

My background is in programming, so VBScript just was really easy to pickup. I usually read books online at http://www.books24x7.com They seem to have a decent library, I mainly use them just for reference.

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Kjell_Andorsen

Well I agree with other posters that some scripting knowledge is very useful for Windows admins, but I don't know if you need to be an expert by any stretch. I know the basics and get by just fine. If anything I'd say Powershell would be the most useful scripting language available now.

I suppose ASP.NET would be useful if the job involves alot of Web administration and IIS, which isn't too uncommon.

I have 2 more exams to go before I have my MCSE 2003, but if there's one thing I know from my time actually working as a Sysadmin it's that to do your job you will need to know alot of stuff never mentioned in any of the MCSE material, and that there's a bunch of stuff you learn fro the MCSE that you will likely never use in real life.

This doesn't mean the MCSE isn't useful, I've learned a ton of useful stuff studying for it, but the skills taught as part of that curriculum are not the Alpha and Omega of systems administration.

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wayne62682

It's required because businesses want to have someone that can do two or more job descriptions for one paycheck, instead of having to hire multiple people. That way they pay you one salary (the lowest-paying one) to do Networking/Support/Programming/DBA work, and save money on having to hire four different people for four different salaries.

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Big Ole Jack

And if they do find someone to fill the position with, it's usually some low paid H1-B candidate who doesn't mind working for chump change and barely gets the job done.

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cpayne366

While you wave that big ole FLAG!

Just moved, no work for me or chemist wife.

Cheap ruckers!
Still Sore

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Big Ole Jack

That's like expecting a locksmith to do plumbing work or an electrician to do masonry.

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om_Instance

And they expect you to be on the same profficiency level as a DBA with 10 years experience when you're wroking in SQL, or equivelant for each other task they have you doing. And they want you to shovel snow in your free time, and mow the grass when it's nice out. "Other duties may be assigned beside those listed in this job posting."

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riotsquirrl

If you work in systems integration, a knowledge of both OS and whatever scripting language(s) dominate(s) on that OS is often required to get all the components working together. Ads for Unix sysadmins routinely require shell scripting plus Perl or other scripting languages. When I started working in NetWare networks, you really couldn't create the users' working environment without DOS batch files and NetWare's login scripting language. As far as I know, it's only a Microsoft conceit that a systems administrator wouldn't have to know some kind of scripting. As for expertise level, that's something else.

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corporate

r u experts in security ?

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My guess as to the reason for the scripting is that they want the person to be a "network administrator" and some previous administrator set up a bunch of scripts to help them with administration. So, the scripting became necessary.

Then they probably want the same person to be a webmaster, so they want ASP.NET to help out there. That way, the person can develop the web pages announcing the company's new widget and the company doesn't have to hire a uni-tasking html coder.

Finally, I imagine that at least some companies are requiring all this in the hopes that nobody will be able to provide all this. That way the company can say they couldn't find any Americans qualified to do the job so they should be able to bring in an H1B person for 1/4 the pay.

As to whether all this is needed? I think scripting can help network admins with some of their tasks. When I worked in the admin side of this, I used scripting and batch files a lot to help automate certain tasks. It also helped to build a script, put it on the network and tell a user with a certain problem to just run the script and let it fix the problem for them.

Whether admins need ASP.NET; I'm a bit shakier on that one. Unless, of course, you want to post technical procedure instructions on the Intranet. Somehow, though, I doubt that happens very much.

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MartMan

I've been an MCSE since 1999 and have been scripting since then too. I don't think you have to be a scripter to manage computer systems but it certainly saves a ton of time.
Spending an hour or two writing a vbscript to automate a task that usually takes 10 minutes each day will save you 43 hours per year..every year.. and thats just with a 2 hour investment..
I collected so many scripts over the years I even set up a website for them.. thescriptlibrary.com so that shows you how much I value the skill.
All the best.. Marty