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Theoretical Internet without ISP

By winthrop.polk ·
I know there has to be a way to connect to the internet at high speeds without an ISP. How do I do this; or, how does AT&T and Comcast do this. The internet is big, and AT&T, comcast and others all provide the exact same content which leads me to beleive there is an underlieing principle of net neutrality and free information access somewhere on the backbone of the internet.

Okay, so we supposedly live in a free market society. So how do I become my own ISP. If I know what IP adresses I want to connect to (perhaps using my personalized DNS), how do I do this. Imagin that cost is no option. Could I run a T1 line directly to a google server? But then, does google have an ISP? Comcast is an ISP, but who does comcast pay? If they don't pay anyone, then I should be able to set up my own ISP just by replicateing their system.

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ISP's have GSP's

by LarryD4 In reply to Theoretical Internet with ...

ISP's have GSP's or Global Service Providers for their needs.

AT&T. MCI, Sprint Net all are GSP's. You can't buy a fiber drop from a GSP, you need to go through your local telecommunications company for a Fiber drop.

ISP=IP Block
If you want to be an ISP you will need to lease or purchase an IP block. I don't think its actually possible to buy a block anymore. Well that should change once IPv6 is out. In most cases you would just lease a block of addresses from a company like AT&T and that leased block will become the IP addresses you dole out to your customers.

This is not something you can just do. You need to register with the IANA, IEEE, and the internet dudes, (lol can't remember the offical name off the cuff).

It's a big world out their and if you want to be your own ISP I would talk to the business side of your phone company.
In New Jersey its Verizon as well as in many other places.

You can run an ISP off of a cable or fiber(FIOS) connection, as long as your careful, and have smart engineers.

But either way you should start doing a lot of research on how enterprise routing works, PoPs, and redundcy plannig for your ISP.

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hmmmmmm........

by winthrop.polk In reply to ISP's have GSP's

Okay, so comcast-to-AT&T is like a "electric company"-to-"power plant"? THey sort of contract the local distribution out and comcast/electric-company gets a piece? If this is the case, wouldn't there be a comflict of interest since AT&T is also an ISP as well as a GSP? So AT&T would be competing with it's own subcontractor?

Also, how does the AT&T system really work? Since this is supposedly a freemarket society, there has to be a way to become a GSP (imagin I am Bill Gates).

Where is the main DNS for the internet as a whole. Very confusing.

Appended resulting from preious post edit
-----------------------------------------

Thats right, I forgot about the IP block split up and such. They should be requiring to sell these blocks. if our society is capitalism, then if they don't sell anymore blocks, there will never be any new competitors and capitalism becomes communism when competition fails to exist. With only a few GSPs and even ISPs out there, it is easy to use loop wholes and internal collaboration to fix price and such.

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Hmm

by StealthWiFi In reply to hmmmmmm........

DNS is not housed in one location run by one entity. There are a few large authoritive DNS's out their. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_name_system)

If the Gov get's it's way with the DNS flaw the government might just be controlling all the DNS servers. Imagine 1984.

Anywho, if your looking for a flaw in the system to get free internet, go to Starbucks.

If you seriously want to start your own ISP or GSP then go to school and get start a company and hire a team of WAN engineers.

P.S. as to your above post if I imagined you were Bill Gates I would have to assume any inoformation I suggest will be stolen and used against me for your own profit LOL

Cheers,

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Start your own communications company!!!!!

by 1bn0 In reply to hmmmmmm........

String Fiber across country(ies)/ocean(s)/planet.

The telecoms are GSP because THEY HAVE THE BACKBONE NETWORK. The telecoms were carrying data long before the internet was an idea. They also have the majority of the connections to the customers.

You need connections between point a and pointb. They called it the World Wide Web for a reason. Only you would need a 3 dimensial web to try to properly represent it. It works because all of the GSP's conect to each other.

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Agreed but.....

by winthrop.polk In reply to Start your own communicat ...

It is true that the backbone is there and that it has been used for years by the ISPs before the interenet was even invented. However, I do not think that the phone companies actually paid for this most of this(more research needed). I am pretty sure that governments pays for these intercontinental connections (probably first set up for military use) just as they pay for the power lines (more research need to verify this, but they definitely pay for portions such as some lines used by TVA [government power company]) and roads. However true ownership of these systems has become convoluted.

Analogy time:
Roads- the internet is like the system of roads. major roads are paid for by the government or often companies, driveways are paid by the homeowner, etc. If you want to send anything on the roads you have to rent frieght from a frieght company (the ISP) or get your own truck (my theoretical ISP).

Power- the grid is like the internet. electric companies are like the ISPs. But, If I really want to and I am rich, I can contract a direct line from a power plant that, in effect, is still part of the grid but eliminates the middle man of the electric company.

There has to be a way to do this. Otherwise, ower ecconomy simply isn't run on capitalism but, instead, a sort of corporate communism.

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In the US....

by ---TK--- In reply to Agreed but.....

In the beginning there was ARPANET which was put up by the US defense department, who also came up with the wonderful so easy to trace TCP/IP...

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Roads are PUBLIC INFRASTRUCURE.

by 1bn0 In reply to Agreed but.....

Paid for by taxes. For the express purpose of providing access to the raveling public. Even then there are TOLL roads where they charge you extra.

Communication links in N.A. are majority privately owned. By the Telcos. Even in those countries where the Governemnt "owns" the telco. The telco is generally run as a commercial entity and "owns" its infrastructure under that corporation.

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You too can be a GSP!

by LarryD4 In reply to hmmmmmm........

AT&T is not the only GSP, but AT&T is one of the few telecommunications companies that have wiring spanning the globe.

Globaly their are about 20 true "GSPs"

GSP's are simply large scale telephone companies. They have their own routes for communications across the country, continent, globe. Whether its land line copper,fiber backbones, oceanic cabling. or cross continent satelite, they have a means to get your network packets from one place to another.

Most ISP's will have atleast two GSP's, the "Main" account and the backup. The billing cycle on these types of account can be based on bandwidth usage or could be a flat rate for a certain sized pipe. Usually, in an ISP, your main "pipe" is a flat rate and your backup is a per bandwidth charge. So while your not using your backup the fee is nominal.

The lines between ISP and GSP are getting vague. You need a boat load of money to setup a true ISP and from what I have seen lately, most ISPs contract out their actual server farm and bandwidth provisioning.

Their are tons of server farm companies out their and a lot of them have the money, size and need to actually be a ISP and have multiple GSP connections as backup and alternate GSP's for connections to different continents. So in theory you can setup an ISP in your office and never need to buy any hardware.

But I'm geting off the subject.

The internet itself is not owned in any way shape or form by the government. In essence the Internet is an interconnection of different companies telecommunications networks. They all agree to pass packets back and forth to each other to allow "commerce" to occur between competing Telecommunication networks. But their is really no rules on how to act.

Hence the big fiasco with Vonage and Verizon and the process of prioritizing packets for VoIP phone calls for your users.

Is the internet free? Sure.

If you have about 750 million to buy the hardware, lease the satelite bandwidth, or just launch your own!

Then you too can become a GSP!

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Flaw in your logic.

by CharlieSpencer In reply to hmmmmmm........

"They should be requiring to sell these blocks. if our society is capitalism, then if they don't sell anymore blocks, there will never be any new competitors..."

Capitalism doesn't REQUIRE someone to sell an asset. It also doesn't require assisting the development of new competitors, only not blocking that development or the continuation of existing competitors (at least as we implement capitalism in the U.S.)

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Not really true

by winthrop.polk In reply to Flaw in your logic.

There are monopoly laws to prevent any one company from providing any single service or product. There are also laws to prevent companies from working together to price fix. The problem is, when companies get as large as they are today by gobbliing up the smaller companys, you end up with only a few companies providing the service. Price fixing then becomes almost impossible to enforce. When these large companies start working together to determine a price for their service, we cease to have capitalism but instead, something new never before seen.

You say "It also doesn't require assisting the development of new competitors, only not blocking that development or the continuation of existing competitors". If they only sell the blocks to established GSPs, don't you consider this blocking the development of new competitors?

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