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April 21, 2004 at 8:35 am #2295348
They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Lockedby clindell · about 19 years, 11 months ago
As the title states I am a Network Administrator at a job where I am on a contract and could go perm soon. I feel the offer is low at 50K in northern California and the north bay and the demands are extremely high and stressful, how much should I expect to make?
I am a one man IT shop for a small company and do EVERYTHING, not just computers and servers, but handle leases of all hardware and copiers and printers the installation and return of leased equipment as well as handle the phone switch (PBX) and voice mail system. Let?s not forget the Cisco VPN concentrator, Cash register systems, purchasing, I review billing on any IT related expense, Cell phones and the 24/7 on call phone support to the remote sales staff or the owners if needed.
Manage LAN/WAN, Windows NT and 2000 Servers, Window 2000 pro and XP pro workstations
Manage Company PBX phone switch and voice mail system
Exchange 2000 Email server with secure Outlook Web Access
Windows 2000 Active Directory administration
Cisco VPN Management
Help desk services for local employees and remote Sales staff and on call as needed
Company website management
Manage company software and licensing
Hardware and software purchasing upgrades and rollouts
Training of employees on new systems
Manage multipurpose copiers, printers and fax machines
Manage leasing of computer systems and multipurpose copiers
Manage all data, phone lines, IT contracts and billing
Manage all Cellular phone services and billing
Manage and maintain company tape data backup system
Advisor to Owners and COO for all data and IT needsWhat am I ?
Thanks,
Clindell
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April 21, 2004 at 9:23 am #2669402
The same as most of us
by ohwell · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Unfortunately in this technical enlightened age, any company that employs less than 100 staff palm anything from web development to changing lightbulbs on the IT poeple I know. 50K may be low in CA but for most of us in England & Europe thats good money
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April 21, 2004 at 10:23 am #2669385
Good money
by oz_media · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to The same as most of us
I have actually been turning down opportunities in England myself due to lack of cash but when you do the conversion, it’s not that bad. I know 50,000 pound would be nice but I think we are talking US dollars here, not quite the same thing.
From what I’ve seen, jobs I’ve looked into around London, St.Albans area, 24,000 – 40,000 pound looks about average, in USD that’s some good change.
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September 3, 2004 at 6:42 am #2717507
Good money all relative
by dragnob · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Good money
You can only look at the conversion rates so far. Having lived in the US until ’98, then London until 2002 and now in Australia, I can say with certainty that a Pound Sterling is to a Brit what a Dollar is to an American or Australian. They may earn 50,000 GBP, but their petrol is still (or was) around 1 GBP a litre. My annual Tube pass for about 17km was around 1,200 GBP, here in Brisbane a annual rail pass for about the same distance it’s A$1,150. Any other shopping comparisons and I would have to ask my wife. All I know is it seemed expensive when we first arrived because we were always doing the exchange rate comparison. Then we realized that 1 = 1 = 1.
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September 3, 2004 at 12:53 pm #2717043
Petrol (gasoline) in the USA is about half that price.
by dc_guy · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Good money all relative
In most of the country it’s a little over US$2.00 per gallon, which is about 0.55 per liter. That’s why so many of our people can afford to drive farm trucks disguised as station wagons for Klingons.
When and if US petroleum prices rise to the world norm, you’re going to see SUVs abandoned along the roadways like Trabants in East Germany the day after the Berlin Wall fell.
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September 3, 2004 at 9:01 pm #2716969
Your Job Title…
by jbchiong · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Good money all relative
bloody job.
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September 30, 2004 at 3:58 am #2702157
Infra Manager
by msingh300973 · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to Your Job Title…
I do same as you do in our company as a Infra Manager, & time to time Project Leader for different projects. Currently I am a Support Leader for Pymidol.com, Earlier I was support leader for CAD systems, then BARCODE system like this ….many more.
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September 28, 2004 at 12:55 pm #2721503
Who am I?
by mtruong · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to Good money all relative
You are what we called down here in OH: Misc/Etc Administrator. They load you up with the whole bunch of responsibilities for a peanut especially in CA. You worth more than what you are being paid right now. Based on your described reponsibilities, I would say you should be paid around 80-90K especially in CA where the living expenses are high. Maybe you should try to test the market on your free time and see what you find. Who know! you might find something better. Good luck
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September 2, 2004 at 8:12 am #2717779
yup, that sounds about right
by coldbrew · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to The same as most of us
I did most of what you say your job description is. I am also doing it at my other job along with maintnance and what ever else they come up with. And I make a whoping 25K a year. As of present I am looking for another career b/c I am burnt out and I think the job is overrated. Do what you can and move on if you are not happy.
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September 2, 2004 at 3:51 pm #2717625
If its got electricity running through it, i fix it!!
by chicharelli · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to The same as most of us
im in the same boat my company thinks that if its got electricity running through it that i am the man for thr job, also if somthing heavy needs to be lifted thats my job as well!!!
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September 3, 2004 at 11:08 pm #2716960
What other employee do
by indra · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to If its got electricity running through it, i fix it!!
I think if i’m not working in my company right now ,
other people maybe still using snail mail , type with typwriter , and maybe using two can with snare to talk with others….. -
September 14, 2004 at 11:42 am #2706990
You are a Computer Professional — if exempt then you have them!
by old-timer · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to What other employee do
Go to the Department of Labor Web Site; Fair Labor Standards Act. A degreed professional who is an exempt Computer Professional(no overtime) may not spend over 50% of their time doing menial tasks (manual labor using hand tools, or moving equipment). If the manual labor exceeds 50 %, then they cannot label you Exempt, and you get O.T. Or they must raise your salary to equal $26.34 (I think) no O.T.. And the California Department of Labor has the same regulation, but the pay amount is greater. Good Luck!
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September 5, 2004 at 5:58 pm #2716407
i fix it!!
by jeff.allen · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to If its got electricity running through it, i fix it!!
…And if it doesn’t have electricity going through it , sell them something that does!!
$50K? That sounds fantastic from where I am sitting, AND I do stores duty now as well.
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September 4, 2004 at 2:50 am #2716941
it is okey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ktharbi.c · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to The same as most of us
it is ok!!!
if you can manage all that tasks in your office time its ok because you will have a good experience or knowledge in different areas ?
but if you can not do all that tasks on time it is mean you will have a problem with your manager then it is a bad point in your work history , so you need to talk with your manager and ask him about your job description?
Finally don?t think so match about title now , but always thinking who you can collect the experiences!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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April 21, 2004 at 9:29 am #2669393
You’re employed
by gralfus · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
In the current economy, it may suck to make only 50K and do what you do. But many of us have struggled the past few years just to find a job that doesn’t include french fries. I’m extremely thankful to have a job related to my field of study, after 2 years of unemployment. So I would suggest biding your time, getting really good at what you do, keep your resume up to date with your latest skills (not just the job title), and keep looking for other places to work. Other opportunities will present themselves eventually.
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September 2, 2004 at 5:31 am #2717116
Experience
by sternzy · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to You’re employed
I agree, take the experience, update the resume, and when the economy picks up or a job presents itself, take it. When a company takes advantage of their employees to try and save money, it will come back to get them in the long run. My guess is that you are not the only one at that company that is doing a job that could be spanning multiple.
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April 21, 2004 at 10:00 am #2669389
dont get me wrong but….
by jkaras · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
a bit of a whinner. I lived in Cali. for some time and yeah is it expensive to live if you want to be a homeowner, not a renter. I will give you that making 50k is rather small potatoes but I’m making barely 30k for helpdesk. I would jump at an opprotunity to make that much and build a resume as an administrator that I could parley it into mad money. I got into computers only for the payday only to find that the bubble burst and employment opprotunities let alone good salaries are extremly hard to come by. People making the advertized high amounts on tv and in colleges are in actuality people that have been in the industry for 10+ years touting major experience. How many people in this small company do you actually support? How big of a budget do you think they have to employ you? What do you feel is the proper amount that suits your needs? Your list of responsibilities is rather impressive but nothing out of the ordinary nor duties that will completely occupy every moment of your time. I see that on a typical day you will work hard or seriously for 3-4 hours, reviewing leases and expenses are not an everyday thing let alone returning equipment. The only thing that is the hard part is the helpdesk part if your users dont have a clue or the network runs poorly. My advice take it cause there are many people that would undercut you for that job, build the resume and parley into mad money after two+ years, but that’s just me.
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April 21, 2004 at 10:55 pm #2669250
A bit of a whinner??? who’s whinning?
by clindell · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to dont get me wrong but….
I am 45 years old and have been in the computer biz for almost 10 years, I am not a rookie without experience who has mostly schooling and certifications on my resume. I work for a $50,000,000.00 million a year privately owned company that employs around 120 people and around 60 users. Where do you live making 30K as a help desk and how long have you been in IT? 30K in some parts of the country would be like 60-70K here.
The COO does not give anyone a budget, yet expects all departments? heads to sign off on all purchases or requests related to that department and authorizes purchase as needed. From the records I have seen it looks as though the IT budget is about $500,000.00 a year. Other people I have talked to including a high level manager friend at Intuit say I should be 70K or more even with the amount of people available in this market, this area is a very expensive place to live.
At this time I would say I work hard 7-8 hours a day, believe it or not. I literally feel like taffy being stretched from all sides several times a day and must weigh which problem or task gets priority and sometimes don’t take a lunch. The network runs OK, but I have found many things that were not built or configured correctly or lack procedures which then take time to determine correct methodology. The users are about 50/50 good and bad, meaning they need hand holding and the owners need the most hand holding of all, which needs to be treated as delicately as possible; they don?t like to hear it can?t be done that way and even go to their private residence to work on their computers, broadband and VPN.
As far as parleying $50K a year into mad money north of San Francisco, it ain?t going to happen! You need to look at housing prices here. Currently a median single family home is running close to $450,000.00 where I live; try to buy that on 50K a year. If I were in my 20?s 50K a year might seem pretty good but before I changed careers I made close to that 15 years ago working for Jaguar. Surely the person responsible for the health and safety of all the data of a 50M a year company is worth more than an auto mechanic, I was one once, I think I know.
The point here was more of what am I, or what is more fitting of a title as I do everything except manage my own budget? I have been an IT manager & a director between 98 & 01 and did less work and oversaw less than I do now for much more money. I know many of us have lost jobs and many more got into IT hoping for great wages and I make substantially less than I used to.
Is this the way it is going to be? Do a lot more work for a lot less money and if you don?t someone else will? Are we, the experienced senior level network people giving our skills away just to have a job if we can find one?
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April 22, 2004 at 6:31 am #2669201
In a nutshell….
by jellimonsta · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to A bit of a whinner??? who’s whinning?
…Yes! I think this field has become a ‘work more for less money’ scenario. Partly due to the .com bust, partly due to kids coming out of tech schools in the multitude, and partly because it does not take the same skillsets to run an M$ network as it does an AS/400.
…. the beginning of the end! :oP -
September 3, 2004 at 7:30 am #2717486
Hmmmm
by jaymiller25 · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to In a nutshell….
“and partly because it does not take the same skillsets to run an M$ network as it does an AS/400”
My one comment on that remark: Maybe the skillsets aren’t the same…but the technical proficiency has to be there to run a MS network properly. Unfortunately, most don’t config their MS networks properly…they just go w/ the default settings.
Just my 2 cents.
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April 22, 2004 at 9:48 am #2669118
My apologies
by jkaras · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to A bit of a whinner??? who’s whinning?
Trust me when I say it wasnt ment to offend. In your original post you claimed it was a small company not a big one. My terminology of small didnt equate a multi million dollar company, but more along the lines of less than a million a year and a compliment of under 60 users to support.
I work for a local government office of about just under 200 employees. Our equipment is not cutting edge and we are currently in the process of upgrading. I have only been here less than 2 years and when I started they were all using Win95 and word98 not to mention pcs and monitors that are from ’93. We just migrated to 2000 and we are getting rid of our NT domains for a 2000 solution. We have a four man crew and we do next to nothing all day. Typical day is printing issues and bad keyboard/mice problems, with the occasional in house program issues. My boss does the type of reports/budget stuff that takes up hardly any time. This is my first office job compared to my previous life of warehouse work (home improvement), retail, UPS worker sorting mail and loading trucks, and other service oriented jobs. My days were so busy and long up to 14 hour days without a full day off while attending community college. Here is very boring and I am more tired just sitting around compared to working non stop. Looking at your post previously to me looked like my current environment vs. the typical big company 5 meetings a day over nothing, constant cubicle moves and a vast array of servers that need constant attention. Yes we have the advantage of a four person compliment vs. just you but it seemed like they didnt have much money to invest in their IT department and judging that it was a three to four management operation if that.
I lived in Stockton, C.A. for nine years and yeah I loved the weather and the people, the constant concerts, the ability to go an 1 1/2 in any direction to go gambling, skiing, big city life in Frisco, and yadda yadda. To own a home is crazy out there and most people from Frisco bought homes in Gault, Stockton, and other small cities and commuted the hour drive. Currently I live in Orlando. Its all the same, nothing but beaches, hicks, messed up streets and highways, and no work or good paying jobs due to its a retirement state and a vacation spot. The pay sucks unless you are a big wig, the compromise is cheap land. You may make squat but just about everyone can afford a house if they really go thru the process. They dont appreciate well so its affordable. Compared to Cali, houses appreciate by the hour due to damand and lack of land. Trust me when I say I’m making the standard for help desk at about $13 an hour. Pay is regulated to area economics to certain extents. I’m making according to my tax return only $200 more than I did in retail. I know a ton of people right now that are way more qualified with way more experience that are out of work currently here. I am rather thankful for this job despite that it isnt meeting my expectations in regards to pay and experience, but I’ll take what I can get. Thankfully I dont have a wife and kids to support since I need a roommate and I’m 33.
Yes it is a cold hard fact in today’s world that competition is centered on how can business save money by offering less in economic downfalls that our nation is currently in. Not only do we fight eachother for jobs, but we have to contend with outside competition that will do it for far less. i really dont see it changing for the better especially with software being engineered to be more automative requiring less skilled workers only needing help desk duties to keep the office running. After reading your reply I know and dont doubt that you are working far harder than what the pay demands but if you wont work for that pay someone else will, especially a person like me who just wants a chance to make it nedding experience or someone who cant go back to retail and will settle for a moderate paycheck with benefits. If you ask for more they will probably turn you down and replace you with someone who will work for that pay or slightly less, and that’s sad but it is reality. To be happy you might have to more to some rural state that doesnt have the IT qualified people that are willing to pay big bucks. What ever you decide good luck, we all need it.
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April 23, 2004 at 3:34 pm #2668098
If you want some comic relief
by hal 9000 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to My apologies
You could do as one Government department here did. They had a big print run on their new HP color laser printer which was networked in senior management office well they needed to run off 4 -5 thousand double sided copies of some broucher so they decided that rather than send the printing job over the network and have someone stand beside the printer feeding it as required they would move the printer.
Sounded reasonable until the person chosen decided to take it down some steps on a trolley without strapping it on well it bounces quite well I’m told even if it did spew several bits and pieces around the place {they are still picking them up occasionaly now 8 months latter.} But it gets even better it didn’t matter that it was cheaper to replace than repair they lacked the money in the budget for new equipment so they had it repaired for about double the cost of a new one.
The weird thing was that the person responsible was promoted for doing this as it seems that incompetence is rewarded with a promotion or maybe they just wanted him out of the office and the promotion was the easy way out but the whole thing is nuts!
Probably why I no longer do any Government work, I suppose.
Col
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September 2, 2004 at 10:27 am #2717714
A More Fitting Title?
by debb · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to A bit of a whinner??? who’s whinning?
I’m in your boat. I’m 51, been in this business for almost 10 years and as network administrator I wore every hat that fit and then some. My company wasn’t near as large as yours. You asked about a more fitting title. I found that titles are scraps upper management will throw you in exchange for the money you really want. Good luck and hope you find the answers you want.
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September 3, 2004 at 8:21 am #2717469
Whinning is not the Word
by safikay · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to A bit of a whinner??? who’s whinning?
I am in your boat Clindell but I am making the figures of jkaras. I am one of only two people in the IT dept. supporting 200 users at 18 locations in 10 states. The big wigs use my age(25 with a Bsc) and 5 years experience as an excuse for under-paying me. I live one the East Coast and 30k barely pays my rent every month.
You should be making at least 20k on top of the 50k. I wish you much Good luck
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September 3, 2004 at 12:55 pm #2717042
Not it’s not…
by dc_guy · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Whinning is not the Word
It’s spelled “whining.” ^_^
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September 5, 2004 at 6:17 pm #2716404
I am on your side.
by jeff.allen · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to A bit of a whinner??? who’s whinning?
hey, after reading between the lines, I can really relate to what you are saying.
I am in a very similar position (without the high house prices). After many many years in the industry, you expect to be in a better position, financially than you are. Agreed. The industry doesn’t seem to pay on experience and the ability to get things done. THAT ability just earns you more (unrecognised) work.
By the way, you mentioned a strange word (to me): “lunch”. I don’t undertstand the concept. What I understand “lunch” to be is that sandwich you made sometime early this morning (when it was still dark) to eat at your desk while you save the company’s time.
I am employed as a “senior Engineer” I have many certificates etc, gained over many years in the industry, from mainframes to PC’s. I Manage my company’s service team in my home city. I am the company’s only large systems/mainframe Engineer in this city. I “look after” (call vet: 2nd level help desk) most of New South Wales (look at the map, see the area I look after). I habve a group of remote Agents I look after. After having my admin person retrenched in my absence (first holiday in yeras) I now do her work: stores, ordering, invoicing, bill vetting AND call desk operation). My day is about 8AM until I finish, usually 6:30 to 7PM. I then go home and do all those jobs I could put off through the day (good ole ADSL).
How much is THIS job worth? Less than the $50K you’ve been offered. -
April 24, 2005 at 3:02 am #3244921
Dont even bother, Find a New Job Period!
by sfranzken · about 18 years, 11 months ago
In reply to A bit of a whinner??? who’s whinning?
Need I say more, the company your working for is out of date, like your job.
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June 14, 2005 at 8:11 am #3192764
suggestion
by tdaisy · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to A bit of a whinner??? who’s whinning?
I will not get into the discussion of whining or not. My only suggestion due to the current job market not being the best is to not leave your current position until you have a replacement job. See if your company would hire interns (pay them cheap and get them when they are in school still) to help do helpdesk calls. This might lighten your load alot, plus you will help future IT professionals get some experience.
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September 2, 2004 at 4:54 am #2717121
to many in computer field
by fdsudds · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to dont get me wrong but….
jkaras , If you only work 3-4 hours a day, no wonder you only make 30k.. You got into the business just for the money, Well it?s people like you that have made this business bad and flooded with people. Why don?t you and the other?s that ?I got into computers only for the payday? go to some other fields so that the ones that are in the computer field, not only to make money, but because they love what they do can find work.
As for clindell, I think you should be making more than 50k for what you are doing and know how you feel. Some of us work a good 8 hours or more and do not get paid what we should. I hope that you get more, but most places now will not pay more because they know that there are people like the 30k guy out there to take your place.
If you don?t get a raise, I would not leave right away. Like someone else said, you can get the experience and build your resume for when things get better (hopefully when we get a democrat in the White House this next election).
Just my opinion.-
September 2, 2004 at 6:18 am #2717809
OK but…….
by glastron · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to to many in computer field
I agree there are to many IT people in it for the money. In the 90’s if you didn’t know what to go to school for they steered you to IT because “The money is good”. Well the .com bust killed that. As far as the Democrats helping….Wait till they start raising taxes and start socialized medicine, then see how many companies can afford to pay you more!
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September 2, 2004 at 9:45 am #2717735
Back to you OK but…..
by nflme · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to OK but…….
Sounds like you don’t have much faith in the Democrats making things better…you’re worried about taxes rising and socialized medicine??? how much worse has you got to get for you Bush followers? i don’t get it? since when have your taxes gone down under any political party? oh yeah, if you consider that $300 we got from Bush a tax cut then you really are in sad shape. everything else has gone up, but you got your $300. i have faith that it will get better under the Democrats because they at least have ideas and the values/ethics to make sure the little guy isn’t constantly getting taken advantaged of and being exploited. that’s really what this web thread is all about. the downhill decline of the American worker and all because we don’t have people have the top who care about the common, average hard workers in this country. There really is no choice in this next election unless of course, you really are one of the select few wealthy people in this country actually getting a tax cut and life is good for you.
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September 3, 2004 at 7:09 am #2717495
back at you
by glastron · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Back to you OK but…..
Beleive it or not, I am not trying to start a political debate. The thread is about the workers. My point is tech people should quit whinning and stop looking for someone else to help them. If you are genuinely qualified to do your job, you will find work. If your skills are outdated or you think you are worth more then you are, you will have a hard time finding a job. Politics aside, if people stop with the “the world/government owes me something” attitude they will be fine. If you want a job that you can get hired anywhere anytime go into nursing. Job shifts are a normal part of the economy. 10 years ago IT was the career to be in now it’s heathcare. People have not gotten away from the boom of the 90’s and still think they should be able to get a job making 100 grand a year. If people are realistic and willing to adapt they will be fine. Take care.
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September 3, 2004 at 8:42 am #2717114
Whoa is me? get over it….
by mbaldwin · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Back to you OK but…..
So the rich people are the root of the problem?
Why don’t you just quit and start your own company? Then you have only yourself to blame.Oh wait I forgot, someone is keeping you down to prevent you from doing that!
Last time I checked, I wan’t able to get a job from a poor person….
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September 3, 2004 at 2:18 pm #2717025
Re:
by vltiii · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Back to you OK but…..
You are seriously out of touch if you really believe what you posted. If you didn’t get a tax break someone is ripping you off… As for the democrats having ideas, values, and ethics, I haven’t heard one articulate it yet. All the democrats do is complain when the other party is in office, but they NEVER have plans to make life better. Historically, the democrats are only good for raising taxes and Kerry is no different. He has already indicated that he want’s to raise taxes. It amazes me how those that support the Democrat party think it’s ok for the government to take and take and take.
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September 2, 2004 at 9:55 am #2717731
I did leave!
by clindell · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to to many in computer field
and after 2 months got a better job making 25% more 🙂 doing less and 10 minutes from my home!
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September 2, 2004 at 2:47 pm #2717638
Congradulation!!!!
by notabmw · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to I did leave!
Congratulations!!!! That took balls. I admire you. You really stuck to your guns and surpised them. In this economy it’s amazing you wasn’t unemployed for longer. It’s really slim picken’s.
I got one question. Can you get me a job where you are? I’m CCNA certified, A+ knowledgeable, a hard worker with a genuine interest in IT. I’m currently working as a Assistant Systems Administrator at a 100 user company. As the Assistant Systems Admin, I have been taking care of everything else but passwords and various report runs. I only make 30k in Nashville. I am willing to relocate.
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September 2, 2004 at 2:46 pm #2717639
don’t do it just for coin…
by ibeit · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to to many in computer field
I know I’ve got it better than most making 60K in Chicagoland as the single full-time IT admin for 40 users and 6 officers. I have found in my 8 years of network administration, that decent compensation, thick skin, communication and passion are the keys to keeping yourself “appreciated” in the company. The real money is in sales, so don’t kid yourself about big bucks in administration. For most of us, those days will not come. Get your experience and position yourself in the profit center if you want to make real money. That’s my goal. I love my network admin job, but I couldn’t imagine doing this too much longer. It’s stressful, long hours and its easy to get burnt out, but you probably already knew that!
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September 3, 2004 at 2:13 pm #2717027
Re:
by vltiii · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to to many in computer field
What does who is in the White House have to do with this guys job. Not everything is political nor can you blame everything that doesn’t happen the way you think it should on our elected representatives.
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September 3, 2004 at 9:33 am #2717099
You are got right!
by thunder_striker · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to dont get me wrong but….
I dont know why,but this is the trend in the industry to put IT guys in every job where there is a employ shortfull. Be it a Clerical job, administrative one or something as low as a lifter. Techies are alway thought of as “do it all” kind of guys or may i say in rather harsh words that we are thought of as someone who has less or nothing to do in their own field of work. For these and many other reasons we are given everykind of work from paperwork to woodwork and as far the pay is concerned i think its quite good 50k. If you compare it with me i am working as a Networks Engineer at an Offshore call center facility in Islamabad Pakistan and if you convert my pay to US$ it comes up to only 2k per annum.And i have to do a hell more than the job description written in the beginnig, from handling VoIP services to purchasing keyboards and paper pins for the company. What do you have to say about this.
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April 21, 2004 at 10:19 am #2669387
Your a jack of al trades congratulations
by oz_media · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Well it seems that not unlike most most of us, you are ‘called’ the Network Administrator but are used for everything else.
When I was with my last FT employer, I was EVERYTHING to the company, if it wasn’t in someone else’s specific job description, it became mine. Including, changing light tubes, watering plants, unclogging the crapper, fixing the sales reps cars as well as the entire service fleet of vans, managing the servers, the VoIP PBX, the CO switch for our area (including the clients that were on it), ALL printed and video presentations and sales software etc. and oh yes, the network and email system.
I was paid a ridiculously low salary and left to venture out on my own, I then resigned as a remote admin for the same company (no in house garbage just netadmin) at more than double my former salary as they realized the cost of replacing me.
I would just smile to yourself and keep it up, you have a job, you are not stuck in a humdrum rut of doing the same thing day in day out, you have more responsibility and therefore will aquire more skills.
Actually judging from what you have listed, you’ve got it pretty easy. 😉
OM
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April 22, 2004 at 8:30 am #2669148
I do?
by clindell · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Your a jack of al trades congratulations
Actually judging from what you have listed, you’ve got it pretty easy. 😉
I sure wish it felt that way, I have almost no time for any personal business during the day, including the time when I try to take a lunch. If I don’t leave the building I end up working or aiding in someone?s request.
Maybe in time as I unravel this mess I inherited and try to be proactive I can claim some time back and it won?t seem as hard. I almost quite literally walked into this office without knowing where anything was or what it was (like walking into a dark closet and closing the door), but that it WAS there and was working. There are some records, procedures, notes and a not so up to date password list that causes headaches every time one does not work out as stated.
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April 22, 2004 at 10:14 am #2669110
I do
by oz_media · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to I do?
It wasn’t always that way though. As I said, I was cheif, cook and bottle washer for a pathetic paycheck. I made the change, not the company. I got sick of working through lunch (in which case you MUST be paid for it no matter what the meployer says, even if you are on salary).
My problem was a cheap employer who wanted everything for nothing, I said F-O and walked. I was drinking in a local one night and networking with some business owners when an old sales rep said he NEEDE to to come back as everything had gone down the tubes. I said to have his boss cal ME as I wasn’t prepared to go back and ASK them for work (cheap buggers!). The boss turned up at the pub a few nights later and gave me a contract which I laughed at and said I was moving to the Island if he wanted help from there. It took a few months of negotiating and sticking to my guns but he eventually folded and met my expectations.
Many, if not most, wouldn’t do this though as a paycheck often clouds over being USED by an employer. It takes a loty of nerve and you must be prepared to do you own thing if it doesn’t pan out, which I already began to do.
I don’t take ANYONE’s crap, I’m no rocket scientist that is in worldwide demand but I’m not an idiot either, I would rather work at a coffe shop that appreciates it’s staff than make more money working for a clown.
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September 2, 2004 at 5:39 am #2717115
Follow the path to Jesus…* This IS funny, really*
by cedricsatterfield · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to I do?
A friend of mine in Cedar Rapids is IT manager for Stickle Group, a multi million dollar trucking firm/conglomerate. He routinely takes trips to set up ship to shore networks on the southern and eastern coasts, and has been there about 5 years. I have never asked him outright what he makes, but I know that about year 2.5 he was ‘frozen’ for rasies, perks, etc. It didnt have anything to do with 9/11 as the company is still small enough that Aaron has contact daily with the CEO, CTO, and most of upper management. He is a dept of one plus an intern if he can find one.
He started by not wearing a tie to work….this graduated into gradually casualing down until, at one point, he looked like the standard Jesus-blondish hair, blue eyes, flowing beard, and Birks. They finally asked what was wrong and Aaron replied that he didnt have time for personal upkeep because every job involving a plugged in appliance seemed to cross his desk rather than the computer stuff.
He now has latitude and budget to hire intern(s) with impunity, and they are sending him to graduate courses for Linux mgt, and security/network forensic analysis. Hopefully in 6 months I can convince my wife to let me move to Cedar Rapids and intern for a few months.
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September 2, 2004 at 10:49 am #2717712
Please
by orodrigues · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to I do?
Stop Crying Ladies…If you let an employer shit on you they will…Why don’t you grow a pair and ask for a raise or something of value..Like additional vacation time or let them pay for some type of certification…How long have you been at that company???…I love people like you…all you know how to do is bitch… The Squeeky wheel gets oiled…..Speak up….
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September 3, 2004 at 6:25 am #2717513
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April 21, 2004 at 10:23 am #2669386
You are….. a Network Administrator
by jellimonsta · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
You are not really doing anything out of the ordinary for most network administration positions. I perform almost all of the mentioned tasks as well as a few others in an IT shop of 4. I have been doing it for 4 years and I am still fighting for the Net Admin title.
Like the above people have stated, you have a job in which you are going to gain experience if not instant financial wealth. Gain that experience and move on when the opportunity presents itself.-
September 1, 2004 at 11:17 am #2717257
Screwed
by jgross71 · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to You are….. a Network Administrator
When times are tough the first on the chopping block are the IT folks. Projects are put off and necessary upkeep and upgrades are put on hold. When times pick up these companies then spend a fortune undoing all of the neglect and their business is affected. It is the old story of penny wise and dollar foolish. When things turn around and demand rises move on to better paying positions.
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September 3, 2004 at 1:58 am #2717561
Reply to Jellimonsta
by seanc · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to You are….. a Network Administrator
Hi Jellimonsta,
I agree wholly with what you say. However, it’s clear that you have missed the point. You say you are fighting for the Network Admin title. This does not make sense as this whole discussion is focused around Network Administrators who are being exploited because of the dire economic climate. Why would you still want to be labelled
the same ?. I have no doubt that you are just biding your time where you are. Until the opportunity presents itself, try to increase you skills to surpase those of a Network Admin. After 4 years of fighting and still no title. I think they are trying to tell you something.seanc
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April 21, 2004 at 12:12 pm #2669346
How “stressful”?
by dc_guy · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
You say the demands are high and stressful. What exactly do you mean? Sixty-hour weeks? Are you on call 24/7? Do problems pop up all the time that verge on disaster, so you have to be impossibly fast at diagnosis and repair?
That kind of lifestyle makes a person get old really fast. Inhibits your ability to spend time at home with your family if you have one, or to acquire one if you don’t.
$50K is not a “fair” wage for that kind of responsibility. However, since the dot-com bust the Bay Area is an employer’s market. There are probably ten desperate, unemployed people out there who are genuinely qualified to do your job and would be happy to work for less.
You don’t say how old you are. If you are still in your first decade of work you’re just paying your dues and you’ll have to be patient about pulling in more money, especially in a region with a depressed market.
So unless you’re willing or even eager to relocate, you’ll have to settle for what you can get. You could perhaps get a modest increase by moving to the L.A. area, on top of the bundle you’d save on housing, but people who are accustomed to S.F. don’t usually feel at home in L.A.
Speaking of which, the further away you get from the Pacific Rim, the stranger it all seems. I had to relocate to the East Coast to find work at all, and every day feels like an episode of a bad soap opera. Life in California has more in common with Europe than it does with any place east of the Rockies.
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April 21, 2004 at 1:35 pm #2669316
You do the same things I do
by maxwell edison · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
.
For the most part, you do pretty much the same kinds of things that I do, give or take a few specific tasks.What do they consider me?????
The scape-goat, of course.
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April 22, 2004 at 6:54 am #2669197
LOL.Aint’ that the truth Maxwell!!
by tomsal · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to You do the same things I do
..yep…definitely..
after 8 years total employment time here of a barely 10 year old company, I’ve become used to be blamed for things that are done on days I’m even out sick or on vacation. 😉
Ahh yes the joys of IT!!
You get used to it after a while.
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September 1, 2004 at 11:25 am #2717255
~LoL~ Why do they break when your on vacation?!!!
by admin · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to LOL.Aint’ that the truth Maxwell!!
As if I didn’t do a thing to KEEP them running when I’m here ~LoL~
I really think certain people think that they just “magically” have problems while I’m gone and never really when I’m here since they run smoothly to the end-monkey 🙂
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April 22, 2004 at 8:27 am #2669149
Aint that right!
by hal 9000 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to You do the same things I do
Maxwell you have hit on the perfect description and what any title should actually be!
I just love the way that you alway get “But I’ve done nothing!” or “What have you done to our computers?” even when you only work as a consultant and have not been there for several months. I regularly send out update notices which are never followed but it is always my fault when they much up the system.
Like recently a 600 P3 with 128 MEG of RAM running XP Pro without any AV and it is my fault when it gets an infection even though I’ve never actually seen this particular unit as they bought in in from “HOME” but it was my fault when it broke.
Col
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April 22, 2004 at 12:25 pm #2669089
I concur and thank you Max.
by oz_media · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Aint that right!
Yes, Max summed t up quite well.
What’s really funny is that when I busted my ass 9+ hours perday for 8 hours pay and did EVERYTHING under the sun, the bosses always asked each other “what does Oz do all day?” “Is he just playing games or what?” THE NERVE!!! I never played mroe than a few hours per day and that was usually a LAN game WITH the bosses. 😛
Now I hear nothing, it’s soooooo quiet, like the little town I live in since escaping the rat race.
I find though that NOBODY ever makes a mistake or screws up a computer, other than me when onsite of course. The user is always innocent and I just seem to bring all this bad luck with me on a site visit like an alien controlling a car on th efreeway, everything all of a sudden has a problem that just magically appeared.
Yes, I was, am, and probably will always be ‘the scape goat’.
Thank you Max for an insightful job descirption, it will make my contract renewals so much easier when under duties it just says “take the blame” under position it will say ‘scape goat’.
Well done sir!
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September 2, 2004 at 2:39 pm #2717643
commumication is “god-like”
by ibeit · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to I concur and thank you Max.
I couldn’t agree more. Not only is the end user innocent, but nobody seems to get what the IT admin does all day. Well I can tell you that a good part of my 55+ hour week as a single full-time IT admin for 40 architects making 60K in Chicagoland is used up writing communications justifying what I’m doing to make end users’ lives better and why I’m doing it. They are, after all, my clients, so I try to treat them like it. My experience has shown that regular communications with the end users works as long as you keep your promises, but that’s another discussion…
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April 21, 2004 at 1:36 pm #2669315
Hmmm..
by maecuff · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
A carbon based life form?
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April 21, 2004 at 3:46 pm #2669292
What R U Really?
by y2kpursuer · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Fukt. To me anyway, If you decide to take on more responsibility.
An out of work, What am I really too.
New Yorker.Al
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April 21, 2004 at 6:23 pm #2669273
Ask For More
by worker bee · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
If you think you deserve more money for all you do then the time to ask for it is now, before you become an employee.
You have been working contract for them so they know what you can do and they know that they want you. You will never be in a better position to bargain. Even if they can find someone cheaper it would take time for someone new to get up to speed on all the stuff you do. Don’t be afraid to climb those golden stairs. If they say no you can always give in, although I would recommend you “think it over” for a few days to make them sweat. Admittedly there is some risk involved here but the risk seems small compared to the potential gain. Good luck.
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April 22, 2004 at 6:41 am #2669199
Welcome to the Club!
by tomsal · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Welcome to the wonderful world of the IT professional in the year 2004. Your whole job description/list of duties is almost as if you were reading my own list of duties and job description. For YEARS (5 years to be exact) I was the lone IT man for our company. There was one other IT person who happened to be my own brother but he was the sole developer, so *all* (I’m being sarcastic) he did was develop and manage the proprietary software that became the foundation of this company. The only duty you listed that I didn’t do was manage a Cisco VPN. We have a Sonicwall VPN instead. 😉
My brother has left the company and now its been 2 1/2 years since my department expanded to include 5 total members now, so I no longer do things alone anymore.
But if it makes you happier when I was doing all by myself I was even breaking 40k a year. So count your blessings.
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April 22, 2004 at 7:14 am #2669192
What you earn depends on where you live
by clindell · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Welcome to the Club!
OK so you earn 30K, 40K, 50 or even 60 or 70K for your duties and responsibilities, BUT where do you live? Cost of living has a dramatic affect on your ability to save.
50 or 60K in the San Francisco bay area might be chicken scratch compared to 40K in Little Rock, Arkansas when you factor in housing and other costs of housing, gas, insurance, bridge tolls, food, etc.
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April 22, 2004 at 5:50 pm #2668330
Good point!
by oz_media · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to What you earn depends on where you live
Perhaps instead of trying to solve the unsolvable (unless you can get a raise, in which case you should) maybe you could just quit, move and find a job that YOU want to do that pays what YOU feel you’re worth?
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April 22, 2004 at 6:22 pm #2668318
What you earn depends on where you live
by clindell · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Welcome to the Club!
OK so you earn 30K, 40K, 50 or even 60 or 70K for your duties and responsibilities, BUT where do you live? Cost of living has a dramatic affect on your ability to save.
50 or 60K in the San Francisco bay area might be chicken scratch compared to 40K in Little Rock, Arkansas when you factor in housing and other costs of housing, gas, insurance, bridge tolls, food, etc.
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April 23, 2004 at 9:05 am #2668223
Is moving an option?
by onbliss · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to What you earn depends on where you live
Man, health is important. Can you move out of the bay area into a smaller town? Is that an option you have? Smaller cities/towns can have a less stressful life.
take care of your health. good luck.
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April 23, 2004 at 10:17 am #2668205
Is moving an option?
by clindell · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Is moving an option?
I wish moving were an option! As it is now I drive 45 minutes to an hour. Anywhere around the greater SF bay area there is traffic, and the closer you get to SF the worse it gets, but there are better choice of jobs and pay, but is all that stress of commuting and living in your car for hours worth it? I don’t think so! I live on the out skirts of the greater SF bay area and traffic is bad there due to lack of roads to handle the traffic from folks who can’t afford to live any closer.
Anywhere up here if you move you run into the same stuff, it’s a catch 22 and due to my wife’s need for working in sales she needs to be within 90 minutes of the SF bay area for tradeshow exhibit sales that are flat which adds to our stress.
With the dot-com bust a few years back and our own local telecom valley bust at the same time there is a glut of IT peeps ready to work and still more fresh out of school. My savings grace is I am multifaceted and have some very good real world experience that some people don’t get even after 20 years of work.
If we could move where would we go? First we need jobs to go to before we could move, moving without a job to go to would be the definition of insanity for middle aged married homeowners.
I do have a couple of r?sum??s out and hope one of them makes an offer, it would be closer to home and should pay more of an IT industry standard wage with full benefits. One thing I have learned is family owned business?s tend to pay less but play less head games than corporate America where wages tend to be a bit higher but with backstabbing from your peers.
Why can?t we all just get along?
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April 23, 2004 at 10:29 am #2668196
You deserve a vacation…
by onbliss · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Is moving an option?
…but I bet you can’t taken one with those kind of work responsibilities.
Maybe you guys can look for work in a smaller city and move there instead of looking something just near the SF area.
I am sure you are aware drastic situations might need some drastic approaches.
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September 2, 2004 at 7:35 am #2717798
More Responsibilty ? Check the Contract
by rush2112 · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Is moving an option?
What does it say about your HIRED responsbilities?
What items are listed upon it that describe the job you were hired to perform?
Have those increased to include others? If so, when does the contract TERM end ?
Negotiate a new contract based on your expanded roles and responsibilities use the original contract as a reference and be sure to bring a copy to the negotiations.
Be NICE. Be FIRM.
Chances are, when you prove your point, you will obtain something for your efforts.And why not request a full time position and a salary that is more acceptable for this amount of work?
Otherwise, just move on to the next joe-50k-Job and let them learn Economics on their own.
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September 2, 2004 at 10:00 am #2717727
Check the Contract?
by clindell · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to More Responsibilty ? Check the Contract
Great ideas! thanks for sharing
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April 22, 2004 at 8:52 am #2669139
OK as you have said your on “Contract”
by hal 9000 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
What are you making now? The only reason that any company would want to move an outside contractor “In House” is to save money so if you are only making slightly more where you presently are it is a reasonable thing that the company is offering.
However if you are making a lot more presently the company is trying to get you cheap but no matter what you have to realize that any full time employment will result in a drop in income from your present position but an increase in benefits like Medical and the like perhaps in light of your impending Nervous Breakdown you should take the job at least that way you will have the Medical Coverage to pay the bills when you hit the rocks instead of having to go to work to make the money to pay for your therapy.
Col
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April 22, 2004 at 11:33 am #2669094
Contract
by clindell · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to OK as you have said your on “Contract”
In this case the contract has an easy buyout, as my employer (the outsourcing Company) is owned by the son of the owner of the company I service, they are inter-related. My wages are 50K a year or $25K for the 6 months with NO benefits or paid time off and I think the total contract is 60K for the year. The employer is saving money by not having to pay benefits currently and my employer has said they would pay me the same I am currently making plus benefits.
The benefits would be good if I do snap and I am already taking anti-depressants to deal with the stress.
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April 23, 2004 at 5:28 am #2668259
Whoa…Now that’s NOT good..
by tomsal · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Contract
“The benefits would be good if I do snap and I am already taking anti-depressants to deal with the stress.”
Sincerely man that is not good. When work affects your health you should definitely think long and hard about whether you should stay or long for employment elsewhere. I take that seriously, I’ve seen people close to me in my life get very sick over work and very depressed. I’ve recently hat a bout with depression (but not over work) and talk about feeling low and worthless even trapped…screw it! I’ll be damned if I let work cause that to me. Life by itself is hard enough sometimes.
Btw, point well taken were we live does affect how much “worth” are pay scale has to us. And here (NJ) isn’t the cheapest state in the Union but I know for a fact its MUCH cheaper cost of living than were you are.
That’s one of the reasons I resisted going to CA years back is I found out the costs of living out there!
But now I day dream of moving to another state that is AS expensive as cali if not more so (Hawaii).
Oh well perhaps one day I’ll win the lotto and can live ANYWHERE I chose to.
(yeah right that’ll happen!)
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April 23, 2004 at 2:09 pm #2668125
Yep Tom your so right
by hal 9000 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Whoa…Now that’s NOT good..
When any form of work starts to affect your health it a really bad thing and something that should be avoided if at all possible.
That is probably over here there are a lot of people dropping out of the rat race and taking lower paying jobs bu find they are happier as they have more of a life or maybe it’s a better type of life and at least here it isn’t where you live that counts as people in Sydney one of the most expensive places in AU are dropping out faster that most other places and still managing to survive. Maybe it is the way most of us look at life and what we consider as successful. If a lot of people would chose willingly to have a lower income and a more fulfilling job they may find that they are a bloody side happier and healthy but then again what the Hell would I know as I’m a self confessed work-oholic.
Col
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April 23, 2004 at 1:11 pm #2668146
Well I’d take the Job
by hal 9000 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Contract
And then go on “Stress Leave!”
Man you’ve got it bad haven’t you? I’ve been lucky in the fact that I’ve never considered what I do as work and I love it but then again M$ do call us “Certified Partners” over here the certified bit means that you should be committed to a mental institution generally permanently and I at least get a good laugh out of that particularly when ever I see the look on the M$ guys & galls faces when I mention it.
But I still vividly remember back to when I was at IBM when Mainframes where the only real computers available we had these multi million $ units with what could best be called Main Boards that fell over so much that we had a 6 month backlog on replacement parts now if you really want some stress try telling some guy who’s just shelled out a couple of mill for a new computer that it will be down for at least 6 months that’s IV Valium time so I did the only thing possible and had a look at the board and found after a couple of hours a bad tranni {lousy 5 cent part taking out several thousand $ worth of hardware and costing millions in down time} well I started replacing these filed bits with better ones and they never broke again do you think IBM was pleased “Hell NO” I was sent to purgatory for having a negative stock of 60 of these boards on my stock list but I was making them money hand over fist as the things as a reco unit where a couple of K and it was only costing a couple of cents to get this money but they where IBM after all and you do not do what you aren’t told to.
So as punishment I was sent to Martech who at that time made fuel injection controllers for race cars normally the guys sent there lasted 3 months before begging for a transfer but in my case after 2 years they got the idea that I liked it there having to work weekends when the season was on “Free passes to every race motor meeting and being treated like a God by the tech staff” I could live with that very well but then again I did start out designing race cars so I was only returning home where I really liked it. Anyway after 2 years of being there I was approached and told that I was being transfered back to the main operation I told them that I wasn’t interested and I would quite happily stay where I was “you should have seen the look on his face particularly after reminding him that I was a Mech Engineer as well as an Electronic Engineer seems that they had forgotten that one” so their punishment was in fact nothing more than fun for me. Well eventually the ultimatum came down and I just handed him my notice great way to negotiate they throw down the gauntlet and you hand them a resignation which was promptly torn up and they went off to think of another way to punish me. Actually it was punishment working with the mainframes compared to where I was then and I was eventually told that if I promised never again to muck with their main-boards I would be returned to where I was but with a promotion to State technical manager my response was well if you can supply me with main-boards that work and I’m not waiting months with your customers screaming down my back I’ll gladly never mess with the things again but if you put me back into that position if I can fix them I “Bloody Well Will” and to hell with your internal politics.
Anyway what I’m trying to get across is no matter how stressful a job may be you have got to have fun there or you will go insane so if you can not get by without laughing several times a day and I do mean genuine laughing not the insane kind where no matter what you do you are going to mess things up more you need a “Mid Life Crisis” mine resulted in leaving the boss and starting my own business now I worry more about keeping the staff paid and work longer sleep less but still have fun.
Col
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April 23, 2004 at 6:42 am #2668250
Answer to your question
by kurtasha · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
You are employed.
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April 23, 2004 at 10:27 am #2668197
Do you give your skills away?
by clindell · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Answer to your question
OK, so I have a job, but what is of more value a person who keeps a company’s network running and data safe and keeps everyone working so as to keep efficiency and productivity up for or a guy working on cars and owns his own shop?
I made more than 75K as an IT manager and could make more than 75K as an automotive shop owner, which I have done before and it is starting to look more and more attractive.
If companies aren?t willing to pay fair compensation why work for them? That is how I am starting to feel.
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April 23, 2004 at 11:42 am #2668181
But George Bush says…
by pgm554 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Do you give your skills away?
The economy is coming back and is picking up.
Yeah,right!The SF bay area housing cost have risen 17% over last year .The avg price home in Santa Clara county is OVER $520K.
Avg price house in Allegheny County(Pittsbugh,Pa) is $85K.And this is comparing apples to apples.
So if you make $50K /year in Pitt and applied a ratio of income to housing costs, you would need to have an income of $305K.
Not a whole lot of jobs are paying that here right now.
So the joke here is ,one of the only places you can make $300K a year and not be able to buy a house.God ,I love this place,but man ,these prices are nuts!
Trying to move back ,after having moved away is a real struggle.
Workers in the bay area are some of the most productive in the world,but the price ratio here is going way out of wack.
We are going to reach a point when the real estate value of this area is going to be more than the land value of a state like Ohio or Alabama.
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April 23, 2004 at 11:59 am #2668174
Wow
by oz_media · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to But George Bush says…
I also live in a VERY expensive Province in Canada, in fact the highest cost of living in the country. Highest taxation etc.
We get HAMMERED at every chance, but we also get to live in Beuatiful British Columbia. If I lived in our county’s capitol, I would tax the buggers out West who had such a nice place to live too.
It’s worth it though, we have everything and then some. Industry, Nature that is unsurpassed, freedom, mulitculturalism (thus becoming culture), and so much more.
I have to be somewhat shocked at the price of housing in SFBay area though, I LOVE SF Bay, it is truly a hotpot for culture and diversity and is highly entertaining. One thing that baffles me a little though is that ALL the houses are the same, tons of character and very ‘Victorian’ but they are all the same. On a tour many years ago I think I reember learning about a group of four or five developers who built the majority of the homes there, (correct me if I’m wrong) thus the identical structures. How can these homes be so expensive without any diversity? ON second thought the latest trend in Vancouver seems to be monstrous structures that go from back fence to front sidewalk, so much so that the city has clamped down on new building rules that ensure that the house can only take up a certani percentage of land and a certian percentage of greenery MUST be included (otherwise we would see too much cement and no grass). So even though these ugly and horrible (I won’t include the local racial name they are tagged with) homes, they are selling upwards of 1.2 > 1.4 Million, and rapidly at that.
So I suppose for a home in SFBay, with the character they have, it is not so unreasonable afterall. I just think clone homes are not very impressive I suppose.
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April 23, 2004 at 12:26 pm #2668165
Tract Homes
by pgm554 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Wow
That is for Santa Clara County ,and those are tract(clone)home prices.
San Francisco /Palo Alto / Menlo Park are literally in the millions.I rent an in-laws quarter’s from a venture capitialist down here(SF peninisula) and his place is valued at $ 4.5 million.This would be a $600 to $800K place in almost in any other city.
But between the weather and being about 20 minutes from either SF or the Silcon Valley does have its’ advantages.
But,it is a two edged sword.
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April 23, 2004 at 2:35 pm #2668116
OZ there is something to be said for
by hal 9000 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Wow
NO green stuff like no mowing no upkeep but most importantly no work when you are supposed to be away from work.
After all you do not need to spend all week slaving your guts out only to have to do it unpaid on the weekends as well just to keep the house and land looking good. My ideal is green concrete everywhere but I’m not allowed that by “She Who Must Be Obeyed” so I stay on call 24/7 and guess who gets to mow the yard? She is now talking about decreasing the garden beds and lawn area so I just might get my way eventually.
Col
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April 23, 2004 at 10:48 pm #2668072
EEEEEWWWWW
by oz_media · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to OZ there is something to be said for
Perhaps that’s why I’m not married now, I despise being TOLD what to do, read into ‘suggestive idea’ and don’t fall for the guilt trip either. If I’m left to do it I will, just don’t tell me to do it I don’t even like being ASKED to do it.
Anyhow that aside, I could not live without the tress and greenery that I’ve become so accustomed to here. Here a pic of a house just 10 minutes down the road, http://tinyurl.com/ywka6 .
Trees! 10 minutes from there, Pacific Ocean and whale watching, cool huh?
That’s why I am having such a hard time moving home to England, I would miss nature too much as I’ve become spoiled here but try not to take it all for granted.
Anyhow, I borrow my neighbours lawn tractor (as I haven’t been here long since leaving the cement graveyard of Vancouver) and it makes for a fun afternoon drinking a cold beer and driving around on my lawn, weeeee.
Yup, it’s hard not to become a tree huger but there’s so much foresty infustry here that employs my new friends and I understand more about what they do so it’s easier to accept. If only they could stop shipping it all to the US and Japan, it would be so much better. There is a horse logging company up the highway that could log their land perpetually without ever depleting the forst they own. They make just enough to live, pay a few employees and pay the mortagage, so much more enviro friendly and still enough to sustain yourself.
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April 23, 2004 at 12:21 pm #2668168
That’s your decision to make.
by oz_media · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Do you give your skills away?
That is also a major reason I do my own thing now. I am an INterprovincially Licensed Mechanic and certified air care technician as well as a member of Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE).
When I left, the company realized the cost of relacing me, as I said before, they came back to me with a better offer. I turned it down and moved anyway. I live in a comlpete ZEN town, hardworking people but very laid back, Killer Whales and sea Lions just off our shores and places to kayak etc., total tranquility.
I have a four car garage, where I restore and build cars as a hobby/side job. I run a artist management and promotion company AND I still remote network at almost double my previous full time salary for the same company. Someone gave me the idea and I ventured out and did it, what do you know IT WORKED!!
I COULD run a shop, but that’s not fun. I could be a F/T IT staff member but as you know, THAT’s no fun either, I could be in th emusic nidustry F/T and put up with the labels and artist squabbles too, but that’s also no fun. So I dabblle here and there now as neede and make WAY mroe money than any F/T position I’ve held.
What did it take? Big kahona’s! A leap of faith, stepping out of my comfort zone, taking a risk (no more than a server reboot with the fingers crossed), and DOING it. I sat and bitched and whined about my F/T job for a year, I bitched about the city (which as a sales rep was exciting but I got sick of it once it became over populated), I complained about money and NO recreational time, I complained about it all.
A VERY sucessful independant trader and copywriter who was/is my mentor and personal God told me to “JUST DO IT”. I will never do it if I try to [plan it out carefully, it take a lep of faith, like bungy jumping, you know it will be OK but you’re still scared to take that ineveitable doozy of a first step.
If you WANT it bad enough, “JUST DO IT” (no I don’t work for Nike). You can talk about it until the cows come home but you will never be truly happy until you actually MAKE it happen, it won’t happen by itself.
NOTE: I too was suffering from severe anxiety attacks (which were later found to be due to an allergic cafeine reaction as well as stress)and was just not happy with anything. Just ask the peers here how I used to be over negative and trod on anyone I could, that truly isn’t me. I am happy go lucky and enjoy being alive, I just needed to find a place where I could realize it once again. For the past couple of days, I’ve been back in Vancouver city for some work (I still have a studio here too) and simply cannot wait to get back to my quiet little town where the water is as still as glass at night and I can kayak within 100′ of the whales again, the picture in my head keeps me going in the city, the reality when I leave is what keeps me alive.
Money? I’d have done it for half, but fortunately I make more than I used to, then again, I have time to do what I want to as well.
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April 23, 2004 at 12:38 pm #2668162
You do Mountian Dew too?
by pgm554 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to That’s your decision to make.
Caffiene attacks,eh?
I recently had to give up Diet Mountian Dew,chest pains ,nervous twitches and anxiety.I thought I had heart problems,my doc asked me how much DMD I drank a day(about 2 to 3 liters) and said cut it out and see what happens.
It has been like night and day.
I am down to 1 diet Pepsi.But I did enjoy that DMD cafeine rush at 6 in the AM.
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April 23, 2004 at 12:56 pm #2668152
Hey I knew a guy quitting Mountain Dew….
by onbliss · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to You do Mountian Dew too?
…poor soul. He had terrible headaches in the morning. I knew a person who needed to chew plastic to keep him going…like the straws, lolli-pop sticks etcetra…
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April 23, 2004 at 4:26 pm #2668089
The Dew!
by pgm554 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Hey I knew a guy quitting Mountain Dew….
The life blood of programmers and exam time college students.
What a hard habit to break.Withdrawl symptoms include,migraine,irritability and a lust for that carbonated fix.
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April 23, 2004 at 10:58 pm #2668070
Jolt
by oz_media · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to The Dew!
I don’t know if they sell Jolt cola there, it was taken off the shelves here for a year or so but is back in full force. “All the sugar and twice the caffeine” is their motto.
When I was a hyperactive teenager, they had a focus group and I wanted the $40.00 for beer so I went to this big warehouse and got to samle the new product Jolt Cola. We got a 6-pack to go with the $40.00 so I ended up buying Rum instead of beer and I was hooked. After it was stopped for a year I got back into Coke and didn’t look back.
bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz -
April 23, 2004 at 10:55 pm #2668071
Don’t do the Dew
by oz_media · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to You do Mountian Dew too?
Well my case was a freind owns a coffe bar and I own a LaCimbali espresso machine.
A four shot espresso to wake up, a four shot Mocha from the coffe bar (hey I built his website, caffeine is free!!) a few Cokes through the day, a Coke and a few chocolate bars in the evening, then a Coke and a Dairy Milk in bed, bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Yup, I binge good when I’m on to something!
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September 2, 2004 at 8:48 am #2717765
Chocolate – the tastier picker-upper
by jetpowercom · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Don’t do the Dew
Enjoying your posts, Oz. On the verge of breaking out per your path (former musician, yogi, cptr cons since 1985 turned netadmin) – possibly a commercial bodywork studio (to help fund maintenance of my injured and aging tissues), more music (doesn’t end), selected cptr consulting, etc.
But all that caffeine – ow! And the sugar – reminds me of a story: after years of up to 7 cups a day and all the Dew he could process, an old friend ulcerated and had to clean up. After being clean for years, he was made diabetic by a food poisoning bout. Possibly predisposed by all that toxic behavior. Now pricks himself half a dozen times a day – stable, but it’s no more new carbs for him in this lifetime. LET THE DRINKER BEWARE!
I used to hunt down Jolt for long drives – that’s about it. Chocolate, on the other hand, tastes good, is easy to meter and has other social value…
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September 3, 2004 at 12:59 pm #2717041
Chocolate
by dc_guy · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Chocolate – the tastier picker-upper
In addition to caffeine, chocolate contains theobroma. It’s a stimulant, but of a different variety, not so edgy.
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September 2, 2004 at 3:40 pm #2717628
Bawls.
by admin · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Don’t do the Dew
I still Dew too, but Bawls is mighty good. 🙂
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April 23, 2004 at 1:54 pm #2668133
Happy to be working
by jamesrl · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Do you give your skills away?
I have 19 years in the industry and worked my way through a few Fortune 100s.
At the height of my career, I had a staff of 30.
Then came the layoff – hopelessly optimistic, I thought I’d be off a couple of months, and would use the severence to pay down the mortgage.
I great skills, a good network, great references.
I was out 3 months before my first interview. Came a close second out of 500 applicants. Almost landed a job a few months later, until an internal hiring freeze put a stop to it.
Had lots of people tell me I was overqualified. Lots of people saying I needed silly certs that weren’t useful in the roles I applied for.
Ten months after the layoff I landed a business analyst contract for six whole weeks. That turned into another 5 month contract. Both at about 50% of what I was making before. I was glad for the work, glad to get exposure to an industry that I hadn’t worked in before, glad to gain some contacts and references. Glad to not be collecting employment insurance. Glad to be able to pay the mortgage.
The whole pay structure of IT has changed. Unless you have amazing skills in the hottest areas, you aren’t going to be able to get what you used to – get used to it.
When I finally convinced someone to hire me, I was extatic. True the pay wasn’t great – but I have a purpose, I have a role to play, I have respect, I have challenges to meet – I am alive and happy to be working.
Think about that.
If IT makes you happy in other ways, stick with it.
If you want to be an auto mechanic – go for it. Different strokes for different folks – different challenges to.
If you measure your self worth by the money you make, then you must always feel inferior to someone.
If you measure your self worth by your family, your friends and your accomploshments – both at work and outside of work, then you need not feel inferior to anyone.
James
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April 23, 2004 at 2:47 pm #2668114
James I think you’ve hit the nail on the head
by hal 9000 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Happy to be working
You have to be happy in your work as apposed to be happy to be working.
Col
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April 23, 2004 at 2:26 pm #2668122
You could always do what I did
by hal 9000 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Do you give your skills away?
And start your own business at least in the beginning I was happier even if I had to work a bloody side harder but I have always remembered something that I was taught by one of the people who I used to work with
“No matter how bad things get and how much of a panic people are in the one saving grace is that no one is likely to die if you can’t get it fixed now!”
Needles to say I don’t work in the medical area any more either when you can have a somewhat laid back attitude to work which by no means, means that you do not take it seriously but that you don’t let it get to you things will be better. I sometimes think of going back to fixing Sewing Machines after all I could do a service properly in 15 minutes and now that is a $165.00 fee but then I remember the neurotic women that drove me away in the first place and the computers beginning to look better even though at times I’ve been tempted to try placing one box behind some heavy earthmoving plant tracks and backing up over the box a couple of times or just throwing one into a swiming pool but I didn’t have a long enough extension lead so the thing might have worked when they pulled it out.
Or you could always do as I did once and kill a dead LT when someone pissed me off I just grabbed the LT and started bashing it against a work desk with bits and pieces flying everywhere it was amassing just how many people left me alone after that “if only for a short time anyway” at least I got my composure back and it really felt “BLOODY GREAT.”
Anyway you have got to learn to have fun and never allow things to get to you no matter how bad they get remember that no matter what happens no one is likely to die if it takes you 2 days to fix instead of the required 10 seconds.
Col
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September 2, 2004 at 3:45 pm #2717627
How to get more money out of them.
by kiera · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Do you give your skills away?
Any business is geared to be successful. Success is directly related to the staff: those working in the core business, those working in support of the core business workers, and those working in the operations side of the company.
They’ve offered you 50k, which in Australian terms is about 72k. I live in Sydney, and for a decent house anywhere within a 10k radius of the city, it’s about 800k-1.3million. I agree that this isn’t much compared to how expensive it is to live and what your job duties are, but it’s pretty much close to the mark of what you’d be happy with I think, after tax, give or take another say, 15k.
So what you have to figure out is how to get them to pay you 15k. Nobody is going to say, let’s pay him more money, even if you ask. Why don’t you, instead of trying to get it via wages which is always expensive to the company, try to get it paid in some kind of equity into the business?
You have just as much impact on the bottom line as anyone does, you’re the one doing the purchasing, negotiating, planning. You’re the one that is in the position of making smarter decisions about technology ie saving on licensing via citrix and that sort of thing. Ask them for a 1% profit share. This will show them that a) you are smart about money and know that it’s more value than it is numbers b) you are commited to the success of the company by being directly involved in the bottom line. (You’ll have to explain all of this to them and why it makes sense to include employees in profit, in the end, if people slack off or spend money unessesarilly, everybody loses.)
Put that to them, they may not give you 1% but they’ll give you something, and judging from the turn over, that will equate into at least 15-20k per year, and there’s your raise, plus there’s your stable future since you showed them you are business minded.
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April 23, 2004 at 2:11 pm #2668124
But is it worth
by hal 9000 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to Answer to your question
Killing yourself just for a job?
Col
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April 24, 2004 at 10:55 am #2668042
Strategic Answer!
by dr. al olaimi · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
First of all you have listed your “job description”, and this is very healthy for all parties evolved. The least to say you do not need a management consultant to do it for you!
My advise (based on what your assessment) is:
A. Develop an original Job Description for your post that would reflect your current workload.
B. try to find any title that match yours, and make sure that you have common criteria in the work environment i.e. company size, clients served, company’s capital, operations working hours, etc.
C. Put a proposal to IT consulting houses, where you would be specifically asking for “potential” outsourcing staff that would full fill your pre-defined job-description.
D. Get the proposals altogether and feed your intellect with the “admin” information that they would feed you in.
F. Draft a “reasonable” contract for current employer that would “contract” you for another year, where you will put a clear job description and work load time table, and leave a space where you would be able to “second” staff for you to manage them.
G. Try to get into a very smooth negotiation (socially as much as possible) with the owner for ease of presentation of such “self-request”
G.1 during the discussions or “camouflaged” negotiations try to emphasize the outsourcing concept.
G.2 presents the idea that you “will” be scouting such “concept”
G.3 update you?re CEO (directly) with the results of shopping around for such outsourcing consulting companies, without any comments from your side, and leave him/her get into some real figures and costs.
G.4 Increase your presence and try to think-loudly with him/her about the cost-effectiveness.
G.5 try to drag your discussions in scheme that would be informative not self-promotional way.
H. Present the Job Description to him/her for personal thoughts, with a bit of benchmarked comparison with what is in the proposals you are conveying.
I. remind them all that your contract is about to expire. and you are willing to “re-new” the contract, but after revisiting some issues.
J. make sure that your CEO is aware about the notion that you got some idea about the prices and most likely they would presume that it would cost them lot more to hire someone else with such “pre-defined” tasks.
K. Level-up the discussion with them about a better terms in either direction, contracting or permanent employment.
L. you are ready to push for a better situationing with clearer vision, because you are now more than confident that you are “Adding-Value” to this $50MM private business 😉
M. Try to set an smaller organization within the company as to be the “IT Function” dept.Who knows maybe you may not find a better pay, rather you might end up hiring others to split the work load with you and escalate you resume to include some managerial experience added to it!
At the end, time is the governor overhear, how much time is left before your contract expires? 😉
With such caliber of yours, I presume you would not fined real problems getting hired internationally with triple the pay (as a mid-to-large networks trouble shooting consultant!)
Good luck
Dr. Al Olaimi
olaimi@infonovation.com -
April 27, 2004 at 9:04 am #2733420
You’re the IT Guy
by kairee · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
You mentioned that you work for a “small” company but didn’t specify how small. Depending on the real size (in terms of revenues, profits, etc) you could be paid very well.
The situation you find yourself in is not at all uncommon. A number SMBs need IT help but don’t understand the level of effort and even if they did still couldn’t pay more than what they are paying.
If you are in a secure position, try negotiating for other perks….flex time, extra vacation….or even 1 conference or training program a year. Sometimes it’s easier in SMBs to get some of the little perks that are tightly controlled in larger organizations.
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April 27, 2004 at 10:17 am #2733413
BTDT
by mlayton · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
You are where I was several years ago. I started as network administrator at a little under $35 on the East Coast, managing a Novell Network for 30 people and their Panasonic PBX. They had contract help before, and I was the first network admin. The company grew. By the time I left, I had a Masters, I was directing overseas operations of IT, and had a salary around $75K. And even with the international travel, etc., I was still managing the PBX and advisor to COO and on call 24/7 – and doing everything you listed here (you didn’t list going to the COO’s house to support wife and children on computers or service his PBX – but yeah, that too). Go permanent as Network Administrator. Submit a proposal to change your title to I.T. Manager (which indicates Information Technology and encompasses more than a data network). Find which of the tasks listed is your passion. Dedicate yourself to finding out all you can about that aspect – and then look for a job that can focus you in the right direction. Good Luck.
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April 27, 2004 at 10:19 am #2733411
Oh and one more thing….
by mlayton · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to BTDT
… find someone in the office that has an interest in what you do. Take them under your wing, train them a little. Then submit a proposal to have them support you, at least part-time. In my case, the Warehouse Guy eventually became network administrator. It helps with the stress levels to have someone you can count on to back you up, believe me.
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September 2, 2004 at 6:06 am #2717812
i do the same as u for less than 15k BIZZAR NO?????
by it-manager · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Oh and one more thing….
where i live, i do all what you do + housecalls for the CEO, wife and children, brother and father of CEO and their families,3 other branches (not mentioning fuel expenses)update websites and media, work on catalogues all that for less than 15k.
What do say about that…..??
I live in Lebanon, Middle East.
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September 2, 2004 at 10:03 am #2717726
15k
by clindell · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to i do the same as u for less than 15k BIZZAR NO?????
But is that a good wage for your area of the world?
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September 2, 2004 at 10:09 am #2717724
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September 3, 2004 at 10:34 am #2717073
global perspective
by lexa · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to i do the same as u for less than 15k BIZZAR NO?????
Thank you for putting this issue in perspective! Although the cost of living might make $15K an attractive offer in Lebanon, it still humbles me enough to be grateful to make $25K here in the US as a newbie IT-Jane-of-all-trades. Shokran!
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April 27, 2004 at 9:13 pm #2733277
But now
by hal 9000 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to BTDT
It’s a must do to go out to every ones home and secure their computer if they have access to the company network. God I fondly remember the days when I had to go out to these type of calls easy work and at least I was well looked after almost force feed at times.
It’s the change from the office that makes the real difference as it allows you to unwind a bit before having to go back and tackle that impossible problem that you’ve been wrestling with.
Col
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September 2, 2004 at 10:14 am #2717720
Reply To: They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
by support · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to But now
The only way that my clients home computers have access to any of the servers is via ADSL/VPN and I have Netsupport DNA Installed on them. I have 25 users over the 12 networks that work from home.
Pat
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May 3, 2004 at 3:05 pm #2734004
Yes I do that too
by clindell · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to BTDT
(you didn’t list going to the COO’s house to support wife and children on computers or service his PBX – but yeah, that too).
Well I do that to and thought I did post that somewhere and I go to the owners home for theirneeds also. And did I mention we are a 50M a year company?
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April 27, 2004 at 9:19 pm #2733275
Far more importantly you need something
by hal 9000 · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
To take your mind off work if only for a short time.
I did this by buying a fish tank and setting it up and watching them swim around it is really quite relaxing but as I’m a lazy sod I got a really big one as it requires far less work and that is something that I find important. I don’t need to spend 20 hours a day working at the office and then come home to do more.
You need some form of relaxation so find something totally unrelated to work to do that doesn’t require too much time and is very peaceful it will help with the stress and depression no end as you will not be appreciated for killing your self in the attempt to keep things right.
Col
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April 29, 2004 at 1:58 pm #2666774
You are being taken advantage of
by karnagetyme · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Dear clindell,
I find it hard to beleive that the company that you are working for has decided to hire you on at the low 50K a year living in one of the most expensive areas of the United States and you are basically doing everything by yourself! You are being taken advantage of terribly and should find another place to work. Perhaps then your “Company” will know just how valuable you are and were. You should be the CIO and have a staff of at least a few good people working for you in the low 50K a year! It would seem to me that there would be many places in your neck of the woods that would be glad to have a person with your talent and skills. Good Luck.-
May 3, 2004 at 4:42 pm #2733979
Taken???
by clindell · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to You are being taken advantage of
I found it hard to believe myself. Only those people who live and work in the Marin/Sonoma county areas could truly understand how much it costs to live here, but that is our choice and for some a need. The fact is I am doing everything myself, though I don’t think the company really knows what this job takes to do and it is not that different than many others who do similar jobs. The bad part about this is that it is an employers market and they are taking advantage of those who need jobs and an income.
I read in my local paper last night where a local employer was looking for a senior MS networking tech and paying 35-40K for full time, they have no idea what it takes to be a senior tech and why would you trust your data to someone who makes less than 40K where that income is almost at poverty level.
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April 30, 2004 at 2:43 pm #2727501
Contracts Change Everything
by krazykowboyslady · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
First of all is it an open ended contract i.e. are you on contract indefinitely or is there a type of evaluation date and you will be hired or your contract expires? Secondly, since you are on contract, you are not yet the Network Administrator for that company. You are a Contracted IT Consultant, which makes you self-employed, and except for the Cellular Services you pretty much do everything a Network Administrator does. One last thing at 50K I don’t care if it’s northern California or Southern Antartica in this day’s economic situation, you better ride that train until the track runs out. I worked for a company on contract until one day they announced the plant was shutting down and as Acting Industrial Engineer I got the privilege of tracking all the Capital Assets (mostly machinery), which has nothing to do with Engineering. After most of the equipment was shipped to Mexico, my job was shipped out permanently…
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May 1, 2004 at 3:22 am #2727451
overworked & underappreciated!
by pccoach · about 19 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
network admin, help desk, procurment, contract admin, database manager, technical trainer…you mean all of those things aren’t part of being a network administrator? the support you offer is invaluable…the catch is “support”. Support for IT is akin to the support secretaries of the past are familiar with…the place wouldn’t run without you yet you are not paid your worth and you are rewarded for your worth by more work. go figure!
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August 30, 2004 at 3:29 pm #2716705
Update
by clindell · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
For those of you who may have read or followed this I no longer work for the company that I had been working for. I was hired by a headhunter for a 6 month contract to hire, little did I know that the placement Co. was owned by the son of the company?s president where I worked causing a direct conflict of interest when I needed an advocate to speak up for me.
As more and more projects kept piling on I went to the COO with a list and asked her to prioritize that list, which she did not do. Doing so would have made her look incompetent since there were to many things to do in a reasonable timeframe or even overtime if she had agreed to let me work, which she didn?t.
Soon after I asked for a priority list from her she requested another temp to help, which I later found out, I was to train and then be replaced. I was told to train my replacement or I had to leave. I opted to leave feeling that I was working in a very bad and manipulative situation and leaving the company I worked for high and dry and missing lease and other deadlines.
You should have seen her face when I said I would leave!
It took two months but I have now found work again. This job is a 10 minute drive from my home as opposed to 60 minutes and I am paid 25% more than before for a good company with a great boss and I don?t have to do everything under the sun and I work as part of a team with realistic objective and goals.
What a difference! 🙂
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August 31, 2004 at 3:32 am #2716627
Good for you
by skidoggeruk · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Update
A lot of people are stuck in the same kind of situation and don’t chance moving on. “Better the devil you know.” Genuinely pleased for you. Did they try to negotiate when you said you were leaving? or was it to difficult for them to “take it back” by then? Loss of face, etc.
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August 31, 2004 at 8:13 am #2716577
Thanks
by clindell · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Good for you
Didn’t even try to negotiate, they would have let me go in two weeks anyway after I trained my replacement. Though I left on my own and know it was the right thing to do I felt sick when I left wondering if I could make it on my savings for a while, expecting to fight unemployment since I walked out of a hostile workplace and would have to prove that; I am still waiting for my hearing. I told my wife we would get through this and when I was working again I would pay back our savings account, she was very stressed about it but knew I did the right thing.
I feel like a thousand pounds has been lifted off my back and get home from work with time enough to wonder what to do? I do want to say that I took a job with less responsibility and less pay than I would have liked but what I have now is still 25% more $$$ than I had with less driving time and it is a fair wage for where I live and what I am doing.
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August 31, 2004 at 6:27 am #2716603
FANTASTIC!!!!!!
by jkaras · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Update
That’s really great news that all worked out for the best for you. More money, better environment, and you didnt have to move! Probably the best part of it was the ability to have the satisfaction to tell them to take this job and shove it. I told a boss that once and they eventually fired me when stepping down from management, man it felt good to say it and it still puts a smile on my face to this day so it was worth it for my own sanity but no so much for my career. That job was great and horrible, teaching me alot about myself and do’s and dont’s.
On a side note how is Cali these days? I miss the beautiful weather and the excitement that Cali has to offer. I just dont miss the price of living!! 🙂
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August 31, 2004 at 7:29 am #2716586
California is not a single place, geographically or economically.
by dc_guy · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to FANTASTIC!!!!!!
The cost of living in central California (the San Francisco-Sacramento region) is indeed high — housing prices are the highest in the nation. This is preposterous since the economy there has not recovered from the burst of the dot.com bubble. Congratulations to Cindell for finding a good job but don’t let his experience tempt a thousand of you to migrate to the Bay Area.
Southern California (San Luis Obispo south to the border including L.A. and San Diego) is a different world in many ways. It went through its bubble-bursting experience right after Perestroika because its particular bubble was the aerospace industry. A decade and a half later it’s recovering passably well and the cost of living has been as least slightly normalized. L.A.’s traffic is now only the nation’s third worst and it’s still the Capital City of the Pacific Rim: there are arguably more Spanish- than English-language radio stations.
The true “Northern California” starts where the Wine Country counties — the northern outpost of the S.F. region — end. Eureka, Redding, and its other cities are exactly as distant from S.F. as S.F. is from L.A., and as close to Oregon as L.A. is to Mexico. (Check a map and you’ll see that San Francisco is at the precise midpoint of the California coastline, not in the north part of the state at all.) The economy there is in transition. Logging is losing its place as our major industry because somebody forgot to re-plant all those trees. Elder care is rapidly replacing it (at least on the North Coast) as a new generation of retirees seems to prefer redwood trees, seventy-degree summer days, and entire counties with five-figure populations to the hurricanes, alligators, sunburns, and Spring Break chaos of their grandparents’ retirement mecca. Our main export is our children. The cost of living is peanuts ($300K can buy a nice house on acreage and water is practically free), but there’s only work if you’re a doctor, nurse, or other health care professional. The largest IT shop has TWO Macs.
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September 3, 2004 at 2:18 am #2717560
Nice information
by orjan · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to California is not a single place, geographically or economically.
Thank you for the information about CA. It?s quite interesting to read.
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September 7, 2004 at 7:43 am #2716144
Nail on the head…
by boomslang · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to California is not a single place, geographically or economically.
And in Southern Oregon, $50,000 is a phenomenal sum you should be happy with if you can get it.
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August 31, 2004 at 8:21 am #2716574
Cali is
by clindell · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to FANTASTIC!!!!!!
Doing better but still not where it was. There is still much competition for work and not many jobs being advertised, but the headhunters I worked with said they have been seeing a slight increase in contract help and contract to hire.
Where I live in the North Bay (Santa Rosa) the job market is tight and housing expensive. When you go to the bigger areas like San Francisco or San Jose there are more jobs but housing is very expensive and in many cases is cost prohibitive. So that means very long commutes, and I don’t feel it is worth it!
I feel very lucky and fortunate!
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August 31, 2004 at 10:44 am #2716531
Santa Rosa
by dc_guy · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Cali is
It used to be the first place you’d stop after leaving SF and traveling through the vineyards and empty spaces for an hour and a half. Then it became a distant suburb, a place where people who worked in Marin County lived, or people who worked in the city but really valued “getting away from it all” enough to suffer a really long commute. Then Novato, Petaluma, and all the intervening towns grew to abut each other, they completed the freeway and made it a one hour drive, and Santa Rosa became a place a traveler on a budget would stay and drive into the city. Then it became a full-fledged suburb with malls and a Costco and a six-figure population.
Now it’s a mid-six-figure population, it has absorbed (if not annexed) Windsor to the north and Rohnert Park to the south, and has two Home Depots and its own rush-hour traffic jams. You can’t drive through Santa Rosa at 7:30am and if you do, you’re gridlocked on US101 on your 2-hour commute into San Francisco. Yet people who work in the city still live in Santa Rosa because its $300,000 houses (heralded as the greatest single-year inflation in home prices in the nation) are, by their standards, affordable.
People who work in Santa Rosa’s mostly modest businesses can’t afford to live there, so they’re bidding up real estate prices in sleepy, scenic Sebastopol.
Another lovely little town ruined by the inability of America’s clueless managers to adapt to telecommuting employees.
And sweet little unsuspecting Healdsburg, 15 miles further north, becomes the new cool place to move to.
Coming soon: Ukiah. It already has a Wal-Mart.
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August 31, 2004 at 10:54 am #2716527
$300,000 houses???
by clindell · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Santa Rosa
YOu said “Yet people who work in the city still live in Santa Rosa because its $300,000 houses” ??? Where are they? Let me know I’d like to buy one for that price! When we moved here 4 years ago we bought for $325,000 and that was Ok then. That same home is now at $575,000. There are no $300,000 dollar homes anymore and haven’t been for 2 or 3 years, not even in Healdsburg, maybe in Cloverdale?
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August 31, 2004 at 12:23 pm #2716502
Ouch
by dc_guy · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to $300,000 houses???
That’s as bad as South Pasadena, which is only a few miles from L.A. civic center. How can anyone afford to live in the Bay Area?
Guess I’m out of touch, or at least the survey I read was. Got to check the dates on those things. Considering that they’re getting up into the three’s in Eureka, whence one cannot commute to anywhere, it’s no surprise. So where do people with minimum-wage jobs in the Santa Rosa mall or even union jobs in Costco live? With their parents? Six years ago it was Sebastopol, but I’d be surprised if that’s affordable anymore if Healdsburg and Cloverdale have already been overrun. Anyway, congrats on your good investment!
When the generation that’s growing up with IM and webcams takes over and sees no reason for people to have to be physically in the same place to work together — or even in the same country — there’s going to be some painful realignment of home prices in the major metro areas. Places like Prague and Lake Chapala will boom, and Maui will finally be completely paved over.
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September 2, 2004 at 10:09 am #2717723
Eureka IT
by r_fernandez · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Ouch
I’m a network admin/IT manager/civil engineer for a firm in Eureka. My job mobility is severely restricted if I wanted to move, but I am paid pretty well for taking care of 40+ users and 2 servers.
Because of distance and time to civilization, by necessity we have a little bit of everything here. The only thing really missing is a good electronics store (Fry’s, please come in!) But the fiber-optic is almost complete, so we can join the digital first-world.
Houses are expensive now, but have leveled off in the last year. I made 40% in 4 yrs on a 3/2/2100sf on the edge of town. I bought a different house in the same ‘hood for $310k, a steal for a newer 3/2/2400sf on a 10k lot. There are not too many easy buildable areas left, any new growth will be on marginal building sites, therefore if demand continues to increase, price will rise. -
August 31, 2004 at 12:36 pm #2716496
LOL
by oz_media · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to $300,000 houses???
Cloverdale? Well Cloverdale in British Columbia has houses (near mansion size ad geeraly on more than 3 acres, for about $180,000.00 > $250,000.00 (avg.) Although there are much higher priced homes too.
My brother bought a few homes in Cloverdale (BC) about 7 years ago at less that 150,000 ea. and sold them all last year for just under $250,000.00, which bought his summer home.
I just thought it funny that cheap homes in Cali were in Cloverdale, just as they are in BC’s Cloverdale. (Our Cloverdale is only cheap though because it’s suburban and new development is popping up all the time)
Now in USD, that’s about the price of a garage.
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August 31, 2004 at 12:28 pm #2716499
Great to hear, that’s always the case though
by oz_media · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Update
I worked at a job where I hired 20 new people per week, and fired 20 throughout the next week.
They would often be quite bummed at being let go, but knew that was the nature of the business and that no amount of seniority would help.
I always kept in toudh with most of the people and had a few beers on Friday night with an ever increasing party. Almost ALL of them, wet on to fid beter jobs that they were happier with, I found many of them new caeers myself from contacts in the area.
ANY time I have ever left a job, which used to be annually as I got bored after a year, I would move on to something bigger and better.
I am a restless person who needs control and the ability to change my own direction, not exactly a company guy.
I always encourage people to get out and do ther own thing, or if you don’t lik work LEAVE and do something else.
You are an inspiration to many and living proof that you don’t need to stick around when you don’t want to.
Well done!! Best wishes with your new work!
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September 2, 2004 at 8:29 am #2717772
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September 2, 2004 at 10:41 am #2717713
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August 31, 2004 at 11:38 am #2716516
Salary Info
by p2techsup · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
I’d go to Salary.com
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September 3, 2004 at 1:00 am #2717564
Join the Club
by jrice · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Salary Info
I have been at this for 14 years. I have all the major certifications Novell, Microsoft, Cisco, I have a B.Ed and B of Technology. Here in Canada (Vancouver Island) I earn the whopping wage of 30k a year after Taxes. Currentely I manage upwards of 500 desktops and over 20 servers. Is the pay worth it? Hardly, I am on call 24/7 and the stress is great. Network Admin titles sound cool but now that I am approaching 50 and the countless hours I spend trying to stay current I wonder was the IT Field a good career move? In my mind its all hype and the times of high pay are well past us. Its pretty sad when the postman gets paid better then I do!!!
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September 3, 2004 at 7:58 am #2717476
Find another club!
by clindell · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Join the Club
Jrice, it’s time for you my friend to walk. If your not feeling like you make a good to a pretty good salary (before taxes) and your stress is too much then, my friend you have a choice! Let them know you need help and a pay increase or they can look for someone else whom they will have to pay more! You have way more certs than me and I was still able to get a job that I feel is good and has good pay!
Quit being taken advantage of, you have way to much to offer and your employer doesn’t recognize it.
Say good-bye
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August 31, 2004 at 11:40 am #2716515
Salary Info
by p2techsup · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
I’d go to Salary.com and print out the salary data that is for the area and use it as a basis to discuss what the wages are for that type of work in that area. I think it would give you some bargaining ammo.
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August 31, 2004 at 7:30 pm #2717432
Well Thats the heading on my resume
by zlitocook · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Tried for two years to get just an Admin. Job but every one is looking for a jack of all. You need to be able to program, administer, and pull cable through drops ceilings. You need to be able to help users with programs that you have never heard of a still be able to help users with locating short cuts that they have forgot. Even though you have no idea where it?s at.
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August 31, 2004 at 8:23 pm #2717430
Jack of all IT – DUDE
by paradox667 · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Well Thats the heading on my resume
Hey guys…
sounds like most of you are in the same boat as me.
I’m at a site though where I am it – Everything.switches, servers, workstations, purchasing, security, phones, help desk, user management, routers, internet access, printers, televisions / dvd players, video editing, digital cameras, software I’ve never heard of, etc etc etc…
what boils my blood here is that:
barely any leave for past three years, work on average 9-10 hour days (paid for 8) including unpaid weekends….and the site doesn’t have a clue what I do -> except when anything they can blame on me isn’t working.I think an early post had your title sorted:
Scape Goat.-
September 1, 2004 at 8:12 am #2717320
Scape Goat
by clindell · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Jack of all IT – DUDE
It’s time to ask for a raise and tell them what you do or walk, you should not have to work 9-10 hour days and weekends, unless you are grossly overpaid, which I doubt. Have you worked out your actual pay based on the time you work? Working the amount of time you do effectively lowers your hourly pay and yearly gross, but if you are paid well you shouldn’t complain. If it is to much you have choices, after 4 months at my previous gig I found myself heading your direction, there was no way I would accept the work without proper compensation! I walked and you can to, we all have choices.
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September 2, 2004 at 6:04 am #2717813
Do the walk….
by cibertek · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Scape Goat
Choosing to “Walk” is exactly what I did. I was the “IT Guy” whith many hats for 3 years. I got my raises to 55K but it still worked out to making less than $20 hour with a 50-hour work week including weekends and some holidays. Eventually, I just got real tired of working so many hours. Management wanted to hire a second person, but said they couldn’t afford it because my salary was too high. That was the straw that broke the camels back. I walked. Even though it took me almost 14 months to find a new job, it was worth it. I now work sometimes less than 40 hours a week and have the same salary as when I left the old job. Happier and less stress.
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September 3, 2004 at 4:14 am #2717546
and the greatest thing you are responsable for…
by zpeterse · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Well Thats the heading on my resume
*phone rings* “MY SCREEN JUST WENT BLACK WHAT HAPPENED!!?” and you reply, “Is the computer plugged into the outlet?” , “YES IT IS”, *walk to the other side of the building) , ” I thought you said it was plugged in?” , “I THOUGHT IT WAS”.
Users = Stressful comedy.
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September 1, 2004 at 8:42 am #2717308
Your the Man/Woman
by sfranzken · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
You should be at the very leaset 80K.
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September 3, 2004 at 2:10 pm #2717030
Re:
by vltiii · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Your the Man/Woman
I disagree. He stated that he works for a small company. It’s not uncommon for small companies to have a single IT person on staff to fulfill all of their IT requirements. Also as a small company they probably can’t afford to pay him as much as he may think he should earn. The rewards in working in this type of position is the depth of well rounded experience acquired which ultimately will give him the power to demand the higher salary should he move to another company that can afford to pay the larger salary.
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September 1, 2004 at 12:54 pm #2717241
Welcome to the rest of us
by whitecat · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
I live in a smaller part of the country with a lower cost of living. However that lower cost of living also equates to lower wages and even lower respect for the tech industry.
I have been managing the network system of a medum sized car dealership for almost 3 years. Next week I will be given the title Part Time IT manager and a slight pay increase instead of just parts guys who busts his but to keep the system halfway working when he can. I won’t go into a big whining session (it seems that we have had plenty of those in this tread already)but I just wanted to say that I feel your pain but count your blessings that you have been taken seriously and that your services are worth more than 20K.
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September 1, 2004 at 1:37 pm #2717235
What are you, really?
by william.jaramillo · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
What are you REALLY? From your list of responsibilities there is no single title. You can be a Network Mgr, Wan Mgr, Telecom Mgr, Web developer, Microsoft admin, Office IT Mgr etc. The closest title I can find is either an IT Services Director/Manager or an Enterprise Services Manager. Either way 50K should be you sign-on bonus if you are experienced with all these systems. Anything below 6 figures would be unacceptable. If it is then make sure there is a huge BONUS attached to it.
But this is only my opinion. However, I am speaking from experience.
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September 1, 2004 at 4:39 pm #2717200
Welcome to Network Administrator
by computer_guy02 · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
I think I’m getting the raw end too!!!!I’m a one man show for 2 hospitals that are about 130 miles apart and I do the same job and get paid 50K. I’m the resident photographer because I know how to use a digital camera which means new employee’s security badges. I also take care of the HMS (Health Care Management System) which is another server that handles all the hospital billing, pharmacy, patient information and the time clocks. Not only am I fixing the computers here but the employees bring me their home computers to look at. Then in my free time I also handle United Way and Day of Caring and any other fund raisers.
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September 2, 2004 at 4:48 am #2717122
Would Love $50K starting
by james.august · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
At my current job I make a lousy $30K here in Illinios. I do all Audio/Visual, Network Infrastructure, Server maintanance, PC Desktop support,and all Phone related problems. I also manage Email Server and District Website. All in total there are 3,289 PC’s and 52 servers.
I’ve been told I’m worth twice what I make, but finding a job to honor/offer current Industry Standard pay is non-existant.
So my suggestion is be happy with $50K (hope with Benifits) and just be happy you are employed.
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September 2, 2004 at 10:13 am #2717721
cost of living and location
by r_fernandez · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Would Love $50K starting
Depending where you are in illinois, I’m sure the cost of living is different in Quad Cities, Suburban Chicago, or southern Ill. In calif., 50k in Santa Rosa is the equivalent of 30k in the north valley, or 100k in San Jose. It’s all relative (except for gasoline!)
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September 3, 2004 at 8:49 am #2717111
Who said starting?
by grant@rb · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Would Love $50K starting
If you lived in the San Francisco Bay area, you have a shot at making $50k, but the cost of living is very different. As stated in previous posts, the average price of a home is about $450k. Daycare is about $1k/month.
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September 2, 2004 at 5:05 am #2717120
You are a support tech
by zpeterse · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Sounds like my company. I am a “Senior Support Technician”? the posted job description is that of a network administrator. I service anything that plugs in to the wall (with obvious exceptions). This includes computer, phones, all of the above networking eq, automated conveyor systems (photo eyes, systems/server/software management), user training, and common troubleshooting… to name a few. If I were to go on it would cover three typed pages.
I work in the company?s largest distribution facility and we have an IT shop of 2 guys… my boss and I. So I am basically the assistant systems manager in charge of keeping nearly 900 users and all of the higher ups happy. I do this all for the grand sum of $27k/year. But… on the other hand I am more than happy to have this job… I?m on the fast lane to being a manager and well… beats the hell out of being unemployed.
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September 2, 2004 at 7:38 am #2717796
50K???
by super_it_mom · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
I do exactly what you are doing with a title of Network Support Specialist. Let me tell you, I don’t make near $50K AND have NO benefits and was told no hope of a raise. I am just buying some time until I find something better (I am looking like crazy!). Keep your job….at least until something else comes along.
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September 2, 2004 at 7:45 am #2717792
50K????? Ditto
by megancuccia · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to 50K???
No kidding—-I’m way under that, do the same and just found out they’re taking away my boss of 10+ years and now I have to report to someone else who now has the title “Head of IT” and knows absolutely zilch about IT. Then I get reamed by the President when I ask how this decision came about and was accused of not being a “team player!!”
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September 2, 2004 at 8:08 am #2717786
Wages and choices
by clindell · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
For all of you that are complaining or unhappy with wages, lets look at where you live.
If you live in an area where 50K can’t even help you buy a starter home because they start at 600K I say you have a problem. If you make 50K and can afford a starter home you are probably doing OK, maybe you are still overworked, but OK. For some that posted they are making income in the 20K range I would first want to know how old you are, how much experience you have, what the cost of a starter home is and if you have a retirement plan? I know that 20K in Nebraska will fetch a starter home for less than 100K, that isn’t all bad when you figure in the cost of housing and you like where you live. Secondly if you make a lower income than you think your worth due to working for an arm of the government or an employer that also offers a retirement package, not a 401K you need to think about your future earnings and add that into the picture!
If you are one of the lucky ones who make great wages where you live, have a real retirement and can afford a home and are happy, congratulations and count your blessings. If you have a job and a roof over your head and are eating and just making ends meet, it could be worse, at least you have a job.
Lets not forget we all have to pay our dues and if your not happy where you work you can do something about it, get training, change careers, find another job even if it means moving, we all have choices, this is not a dictatorship or a communist country and no one is forcing you to do something you don?t want to do or live where you are it is your choice.
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September 2, 2004 at 8:36 am #2717769
Your Lucky
by dale.richards · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
I cover all that and more, 2 1/2 years ago our IT department was downsized from 4 to 1! thats me. I dont have a job title or a contract but I am permenant staff 6 years and counting. I get reasonable salary and benifits. But no help or holiday cover. When I am off it waits for me!
Oh i forgot to say we offer external support services to third parties.-
September 2, 2004 at 9:04 am #2717759
Private vs Public Companies
by pozotech · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Your Lucky
I too live in CA for a similar sized company. I have the title of IT Mgr and do everything that has been discussed (including all the home repairs) with a 1/2 time assistant.
My take after 20 plus years or experience is that when you work for a Privately held company – the concern is how much money can the company make for that single owner to put in his pocket. They will step over dollars to pickup dimes. Usually they have little or no focus and are concern on how much money THEY are making today.
Public held companies have to respond and report to stock holders who usually demand that the company have vision and leadership.
It has been this way with most of the priviate owner companines that I have worked for. Find one that is concerned about employees instead of how many cars, boats, airplanes and vacations they can take and you will be working for the right company. Then once you have proven yourself – they will take care of you.
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September 6, 2004 at 8:28 am #2716324
Pretty much sums it up.
by boomslang · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to Private vs Public Companies
That’s basically been my experience. The private company will keep you around because the personal ties can be stronger, you have to compete with the new cars and the boat for the IT budget though.
The corporate world “might” pay more, but be prepared for a whole new set of problems, including the crampon marks in your back where the more abitious types climb over you on the way up the ladder, and they have no qualms about using any means possible to accomplish that. Also there is the fact that you are immediatley more disposable in a tough economy.
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September 2, 2004 at 8:56 am #2717762
Computer Systems Administrator
by jdclyde · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
I had the same situation where I am the System admin, Network admin, hardware tech, software support, training and anything else that came along.
It didn’t affect my pay because I didn’t increase the number of hours worked, just the number of toys I get to play with (making me more valuable), but we needed to better describe my position for the company Org chart.
We just came up with this generic catch all.
Most of the added “hats” were with my concent and desire to do. I am now a more diverse worker and my days are never the “same old, same old”.
Wouldn’t have it any other way.
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September 2, 2004 at 9:51 am #2717732
Remote Sys Admin
by support · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Computer Systems Administrator
Well i remotley administer 12 networks ranging from 5 to 25 machines. I target professional clients that are willing to pay for a top quality service. I make about A$90,000.00 PA but i do it because i enjoy it. I have ADSL/VPN Connections between most of my clients and use Netsuport DNA for the Adminsitration and Monitoring. I work 14 hour days, Weekends sometimes and help with my clients their home computers. I have Service Level Agreements in place in blocks of 2 years. As part of the agreement my clients must turn over all their workstations every 2 years to stay current with technology. Accountants, Solicitors and Financial Planners need to do this to stay on top. I love my job/Lifestyle, being self employed and working in an industry that is always changing. If you have to ask is the mony worth it you should not be in the IT industry. Take a look at supplying Quality of Service not Volune of clients and you might just find that the money is good no matter how much it is. (I started making A$25,000.00 PA 3 Years ago)
Pat
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September 2, 2004 at 11:28 am #2717704
Welcome
by matthew.kinch · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
The call me IT Manager but, I get paid less than other managers and have only one person reporting to me. I am responsible for everything you have under your list plus project managment.
What can you do?
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September 2, 2004 at 12:49 pm #2717685
Do This
by infoguru · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Continue to do what you do and become great at it. Ask for training for particular certifications and/or upgrades to an existing system. Make sure you’re up on the latest and greatest. Keep your resume up to date. Network through friends and people you know. When an opportunity presents itself be prepared to leap on it. Good luck!
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September 2, 2004 at 3:08 pm #2717634
You are correct to complain
by mach5 · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
I have just read a book called The IT Professional’s Industry Almanac and the author has been in networking for ten years. He wrote an entire chapter on just what you are complaining about and gives some really good advice on how to deal with it. I would recommed it as a good read. The only way you are going to get what you want is to be the squeaky wheel. If some people want to call that whining… oh well 🙂
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September 2, 2004 at 3:30 pm #2717630
What are you REALLY?
by oz_media · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
In simple terms, the average IT employee.
Your job description does not seem all that different than most others in your field, your salay is competitive.
I would be satsifed that you are getting a whole host of experience in many areas, others ae often limited by their jobs and do not get to become involved enough, this then turns ito a negative when seeking work. At least your position is allowing you to gain experience on many apsects of the industry and you will not be pigeonholed when you seek other employment.In a nutshell, think yourself lucky, no everyone can say the same. Many do more for less money, others want to do more but can’t as there are too many cooks in the kitchen.
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September 2, 2004 at 4:25 pm #2717616
Salary is competitive
by clindell · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to What are you REALLY?
Competitive for where? Please don’t be so generic.
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September 2, 2004 at 3:50 pm #2717626
Turn IT to Income
by entertaining it manager · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Hi
Biggest problem in I.T. is that it is often viewed as an expense. The trick is to turn the job role in to a profit centre – Use your skills to create ‘chargeback’ reports or, as I do, create actual income for the business by selling on and/or supporting solutions. Also, present a project for a solution in a form that caters for the high end Sun/Unix environment and all the processor/licensing to accomplish the task and then create MS solution costings and then bottom line it with a full Linux solution that costs next to nothing other than time and a 3rd rate server/workstation. Instant value and appreciation in terms that the CEO down can relate to.
Like you and many others I am a Computer all rounder who has increased my skills and value to the company for a pretty good return (salary) AND made my position very difficult to fill!! -
September 2, 2004 at 4:27 pm #2717615
Reply To: They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
by lopaka · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Based on the current surveys for the San Francisco Bay Area, $50,000 annually is actually quite reasonable. This is also depending on your years of experience, for example:
Years of Experience 10th Percentile Mean 90th Percentile
16 $66,955 $80,762 $100,113
8 $55,790 $67,337 $83,420
1 $39,581 $47,845 $59,184Now, these number are considered your base compensation. You should also figure in Benefits and Bonus which will increase your income.
If you go to a Compensation Analyst, Web Services (Like SalaryExpert.com, Salary.Com, or SalaryReview.com), Watson Wyatt and more you can get a better fix on your salary structure. These resources also provide ammunition for requesting more compensation.
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September 2, 2004 at 9:12 pm #2717580
Mr. Let’s abuse him
by aldanatech · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
I know the job of a Network Administration can be a bit demanding, but they basically don’t let you have a life. You should talk to your manager and ask him or her to hire at least one more IT professional to light up the load a bit. If this is denied then you should seriously begin to look elsewhere. For now, hang in there. All this fast-track experience should look good on your resume.
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September 2, 2004 at 11:38 pm #2717569
You are a Swiss Army Knife!
by yanipen · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
And welcome to the club. But you are not a jedi, though.
I do not know if my suggestion will be read by you because most often, this discussion might be over before I got it. But anyway, read on.
Anywhere you go, no matter what country for that matter, it is the same. It is because of the COLA in your country, I suppose.
All of the above guys comments and suggestions are correct. But I ask you one thing, though. Do you love your profession? Your Job? Of course, salary is should be synanimous to this, but most of the time is not. I can relate because we are basically the same. But I love my profession. And one advantage I got, is that I am single. So I understand your sentiments, especially if you have a family to support.
One thing you can do is gather all the necessary docs that you may need. Performance eval. and the like. Then present it to your manager, since you do not have a supervisor. Anyway, even if you have a supv., present it to yoer manager anyway. Then try to work from there. One thing is crucial, though. Timing.
Do not act like they owe you, even if it is true. Company politics might come into play here. Worst comes to worst, they may replace you with a younger IT with fewer responsiblities and higher paycheck. So keep it cool. As I have said, a big influence here is company politics. Ow, you got the idea.
That’s what I did. Did not get much though, but it is a good start.
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September 3, 2004 at 12:42 am #2717566
how about this…
by bosko · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
You are a LUCKY guy. I cover 80% of the duties you stated, here in Serbia, for a 3000 euros annual salary. That’s my MCSE destiny.
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September 3, 2004 at 4:51 am #2717537
Job Security
by jimrl · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
With that many talents who else is going to do the job?? I am in the same boat.
Jim La Dieu, Augusta Ga -
September 3, 2004 at 5:47 am #2717528
IT Manager? Hmmm.
by reversearp · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Unfortunately I am in the same boat, I do all of that and then some, and I don?t even make 35. I live in CNY, where unless you know some one you will not land a decent job.
I manage 6 sites spread across 4 states with just about 100PC’s, 12 servers and all of the Data and Voice needs, most of the time more work than a one man team can handle.
Don?t get me wrong I am glad to be employed during these times. But on this salary my wife and I cant afford groceries let alone anything enjoyable.
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September 3, 2004 at 6:15 am #2717520
IT Manager – But a Title
by sgtrock63 · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to IT Manager? Hmmm.
I myself have been in IT since ’97 slowly building my own business in The Fox Valley here in Wisconsin mostly performing PC repairs and doing well. I was working torward adding more skills to help service more of my clients. I went on to expand my skills went after several degrees, Programmer/Analyst, Network Support, as well as Hardware Support. Not too bad considering I did this raising four kids, at 40 yrs old, and still maintaining my business. Funny thing is I did it all because of my ‘Passion’ for Technology and the ability to give my kids a little extra. I left a career at the USPS (18 Yrs and bored to tears) to pursue the American dream. The slump in IT and the economy as a whole hadorced me to seek employment somewhere else as well as maintain my current clients. The only thing I could find was an hours drive away. Working as an ‘IT Manager’ for a small company, 40 users, 6 servers, IP phone system (Including Voice Recording and call logging) as well as Designing & Implementing 3 Web Sites and 1 Intranet Web Site. Then just for Laughs & Giggles, I now am required to provide front line support on a new software/hardware package that my boss has decided to market under a new business he has set up. Now I am under Salary for 31K a year required to work a minimum of 45 hours a week, No benefits to speak of and oh, did I mention that I am now the Digital Video Editor now as well. By the way, I am, alone the IT Dept. Now, put all of this into perspective here, I am not a whiner, but a surviver, I want better too, And for me this is just a stepping stone, just more experience to put under my belt. Am I being taken advantage of, damn right I am, but you do what you have to do and in the end all things will come full circle. With the current conditions being what they are, the Wanna be’s that are looking at just the money will move onto another “Hot” pursuit and we the “passionate” will survive and be rewarded in the end. All things are cyclic, the question is do you have what it takes to adapt and overcome? Good luck my fellow IT Geeks and God Bless, We will say a prayer for all you, the Passionate Techies.
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September 3, 2004 at 7:28 am #2717487
I hate to say it
by reversearp · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to IT Manager – But a Title
I hate to say it , I am salary and therefore “its expected to work overage” for about six weeks this amount well exceeded 75 hours a week.
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October 5, 2004 at 11:06 am #2721980
Same Boat
by tmbell · about 19 years, 5 months ago
In reply to IT Manager? Hmmm.
Understand where you’re coming from BTDT.
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September 3, 2004 at 7:44 am #2717482
Clindell, Count Your Blessings…!
by priscillaowens · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Dear Clindell,
First, congratulations on your soon to be permanent F/T IT job that actually pays!
I think you are in a privileged position that most IT professionals want to be in. 50K/yr to start is not bad at all, it will get better. If you are expecting more, don’t worry it’ll come if you hang in there.
If you asked me what you are in that company, I’d answer: you are the owner! You handle everything after all.
My only advice to you, not that you need any, is to get the “boss” to get you some help to relieve the pressure off of you and the stress.
Besides that, I think your grass is really green! :o)
Keep in mind that IT jobs like yours get off-shored all the time in massive, mad quantities leaving many IT professionals unemployed.
So you see Clindell, don’t worry…be happy!
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Priscilla Owens-
September 3, 2004 at 10:15 am #2717082
Dear Priscilla, your perception is warped.
by clindell · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Clindell, Count Your Blessings…!
Privileged??? Sorry but working as a temp and not being able to ask for anything and perform 12 hours of work in 8 hours is not privileged. The “BOSS” did look for more help, help to replace me with someone that she thought she could walk on the same way she did with the person before me who quit, she found I didn’t let her walk on me! Company employees told me how the she (the COO) liked to try to make people cry and belittle them.
I asked for 1 new NIC since there were none and my purchase order for $15.00 was turned down!
I guess you didn’t read much on this thread, I walked out, and I left!
To make it clear to you and others who think I should have just been happy with the right to work and be overworked and underpaid for where I live and be treated poorly, sorry no one needs to take it and be treated poorly, NO ONE! I do expect to be treated fairly, that?s all FAIRLY.
I did not want to stay in a manipulative situation with a bad BOSS in a hostile workplace. I worked at a winery; the winery?s owner had a son who also has a temp firm. That temp firm located me and asked me to work at the winery for the temp firm on a contract to hire where I might end up as a permanent employee.
How?s that for a conflict of interest??? The temp firm wouldn?t go to bat for me when I had problems and my BOSS at the winery kept piling on more tasks; this was not how it was supposed to be! Also keep in mind that a physical body cannot be offshored sweetie, some companies actually need warm bodies on a building to do physical work; so tell me how they are going to do that from India?
I should feel privileged for this??? HA
I had a choice and I found a better job.
I am sorry your perception is warped and no one should ever feel privileged working in a stressed out overworked hostile workplace. The winery should have felt privileged having me there and wanting and trying to make a difference for everyone that I worked with, which I did and those people were sorry to see me leave.
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September 6, 2004 at 7:22 am #2716329
IT “Victim” Mentality
by evrhis · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to Clindell, Count Your Blessings…!
Ms. Owens, I do understand where you’re coming from, but when one is overloaded and stressed nearly to the breaking point, one cannot feel happy!
I was in his shoes, and worse. No amount of looking on the bright side can make you happy, when you have gone beyond your capacity to keep your head above water. When your stress level is beyond what you were designed to take, people telling you not to worry, to be happy you have a job – is no help at all. It is an insult and more crushing and uncaring than you can imagine.
Apparently, you are not in over your head, as this person you replied to obviously is. I can personally tell you that companies who cannot see that they are burning their IT person out generally do not care, even if they do see it. He most likely will be ignored, put off, or his company will find a legal way to get rid of him, should he ask for more help.
I know that type of company. They don’t care if you drop dead. As they see it, there are more of you out there, and you can probably be hired for less money.
The only way our corporate world is going to stop overloading the IT Professionals is for them to finally see those they burn out as humans – not faceless tools that can be replaced, and for less money.
It’s a fight I did not wish to tak eon. Instead, I did something different than you all might want to do.
I stopped being a victim and took control of my life. I no longer work for someone else. I work for myself, as a contractor/consultant. I still struggle to keep a roof over my head, but I am much more at peace with life, have much less stress, and have a manageable life. I am happier this way.
Great pay + miserable job = Unhappy life.
See, our own creator knew that the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Stop loving it and start loving yourself a little more. If you love yourself a little more, you may find that you put yourself in the wrong path, via love of money. Maybe it’s time to redirect yourself into what you were really meant to be.
But what do I know . . .?
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September 6, 2004 at 7:41 am #2716328
IT “Victim” Mentality
by evrhis · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to Clindell, Count Your Blessings…!
Ms. Owens, I do understand where you’re coming from, but when one is overloaded and stressed nearly to the breaking point, one cannot feel happy!
I was in his shoes, and worse. No amount of looking on the bright side can make you happy, when you have gone beyond your capacity to keep your head above water. When your stress level is beyond what you were designed to take, people telling you not to worry, to be happy you have a job – is no help at all. It is an insult and more crushing and uncaring than you can imagine.
Apparently, you are not in over your head, as this person you replied to obviously is. I can personally tell you that companies who cannot see that they are burning their IT person out generally do not care, even if they do see it. He most likely will be ignored, put off, or his company will find a legal way to get rid of him, should he ask for more help.
I know that type of company. They don’t care if you drop dead. As they see it, there are more of you out there, and you can probably be hired for less money.
The only way our corporate world is going to stop overloading the IT Professionals is for them to finally see those they burn out as humans – not faceless tools that can be replaced, and for less money.
It’s a fight I did not wish to tak eon. Instead, I did something different than you all might want to do.
I stopped being a victim and took control of my life. I no longer work for someone else. I work for myself, as a contractor/consultant. I still struggle to keep a roof over my head, but I am much more at peace with life, have much less stress, and have a manageable life. I am happier this way.
Great pay + miserable job = Unhappy life.
See, our own creator knew that the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Stop loving it and start loving yourself a little more. If you love yourself a little more, you may find that you put yourself in the wrong path, via love of money. Maybe it’s time to redirect yourself into what you were really meant to be.
But what do I know . . .?
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September 6, 2004 at 7:56 am #2716327
IT “Victim” Mentality
by evrhis · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to Clindell, Count Your Blessings…!
Ms. Owens, I do understand where you’re coming from, but when one is overloaded and stressed nearly to the breaking point, one cannot feel happy!
I was in his shoes, and worse. No amount of looking on the bright side can make you happy, when you have gone beyond your capacity to keep your head above water. When your stress level is beyond what you were designed to take, people telling you not to worry, to be happy you have a job – is no help at all. It is an insult and more crushing and uncaring than you can imagine.
Apparently, you are not in over your head, as this person you replied to obviously is. I can personally tell you that companies who cannot see that they are burning their IT person out generally do not care, even if they do see it. He most likely will be ignored, put off, or his company will find a legal way to get rid of him, should he ask for more help.
I know that type of company. They don’t care if you drop dead. As they see it, there are more of you out there, and you can probably be hired for less money.
The only way our corporate world is going to stop overloading the IT Professionals is for them to finally see those they burn out as humans – not faceless tools that can be replaced, and for less money.
It’s a fight I did not wish to tak eon. Instead, I did something different than you all might want to do.
I stopped being a victim and took control of my life. I no longer work for someone else. I work for myself, as a contractor/consultant. I still struggle to keep a roof over my head, but I am much more at peace with life, have much less stress, and have a manageable life. I am happier this way.
Great pay + miserable job = Unhappy life.
See, our own creator knew that the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Stop loving it and start loving yourself a little more. If you love yourself a little more, you may find that you put yourself in the wrong path, via love of money. Maybe it’s time to redirect yourself into what you were really meant to be.
But what do I know . . .?
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September 3, 2004 at 7:47 am #2717481
When you find out, let me know!!
by poppi · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
I do almost exactly the same thing. My company is larger and I make 43K. I had to start 2 years ago at 35K. Was out of work for 2 years so am glad to have the job. The call me IT Manager. I have 55 in house network users and 300 remote sites in 5 states. Am I worth more?? Sure but it’s all economics… and if I can no longer advance with this company, I will move on… I have been thru a conversion from Novell Netware to a Microsoft 2000 network… hehe talk about experience. Most don’t have a clue how to do that or what is involved. Good luck!
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September 3, 2004 at 11:09 pm #2716959
Sounds like an admin
by djbrown62 · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
I’d bet you work late hours and weekends and get calls when you’re on vacation too – oh wait, you don’t go on vacation. – been there.
It’s a job of many hats and anyone who’s been doing it for a while does the same stuff you do. “If it touches a PC, it touches me” was the way I always looked at it.
That’s the way it is in small companies. The network admin is the expert on everything with a power-button from the office calculators to the CEO’s vcr at home.
It sounds like you’re a skilled guy who cares about his job who is in the process of paying his dues.
It also sounds like you may be within reach of a cert or two that could lead to a situation that is more to your liking.
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September 4, 2004 at 7:43 pm #2716851
Are the certs really worth it?
by gabejudson · about 19 years, 7 months ago
In reply to Sounds like an admin
I currently have a job very similar to the one in question. I have been with the organization for 4 years and have set up from scratch most of the systems in questions. My compensation is around 14k but I only work part time. I am also working on a BS in Information Systems that I will complete in April. So far I have stayed away from any vendor or association certifications. I believe that they are more about the $$ then the knowledge and I mean the $$ it costs to get them.
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September 5, 2004 at 11:27 pm #2716373
You the IT Boss ( Manager)
by jaydamodar · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Mate,
You are getting heaps of experience with this job….whatever title you wanna give. Still around for some time and keep looking for an opportunity. You’ll fly high in future.
Best of Luck.
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September 6, 2004 at 3:21 am #2716357
you are manager
by chris007 · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Today the employers like to employ people with multitasking skills than with the people who are sticking to one area
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September 6, 2004 at 6:44 am #2716338
Possible Solutions
by evrhis · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
You are . . . a perfect candidate for Prosac and a heart attack, per my doctor. My short story.
You don’t state your age, so forgive me if I’m listing things that may not apply quite yet, to your life.
As someone who had been in your shoes for a couple of decades, I found myself in what my career counselor told me was classic career burnout mode. My Dr. said I needed to quit – NOW! He put me on Prosac, which I quit taking after a month. My company fired me after I returned from a mandatory two-week rest, per Dr. (yes, it was illegal, and they paid for it, via EEOC)
Unemployed, and depressed, I was forced to use my inate troubleshooting ability to troubleshoot my own LIFE!
Here’s where I started: I listed everything I did in my career-past and present. Then, I categorized, by how much I liked/hated each task. I honed in on what I loved doing all those years, and I decided then and there to begin mastering certain things.
Today, I am a software trainer, spreadsheet and database developer and a general answer person. I redirect issues I don’t want to handle to those who can and will, and who love doing so.
One thing, though. I work for myself, since working for someone else puts me at their mercy, as you currently appear to be.
Working for yourself may not work for you. But somewhere along that path, you might find a better direction.
Also, buy the book called, “Finding Your Perfect Work”, by Paul and Sarah Edwards. It’s a great tool that will help you regroup your life into a more sensible, nanageable existence.
It took me six years to extricate myself from corporate America. I had to discipline myself topaying off my bills, find the courage to locate clients, etc. But it’s worth it.
Things to Ponder: Do what you love. Find your passion – that which energizes you. Your passion=even if you weren’t paid, you would still love doing it. That passion is what you were created to do. Money’s not everything. Great money – miserable job = Unhappy life. You’re only a victim when you allow it.
God Bless You and Dont’ Give Up – Reorganize.
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September 6, 2004 at 12:49 pm #2716294
Job Title: BSBH
by gargantuan gary · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
It’s a acronym for a Singlish/local dialect phrase used by Singaporean. “Bao Sheon Bao Hai”… roughly meaning you cover just about everything.
At least it looks good to have that in the Job Title.
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September 6, 2004 at 12:52 pm #2716293
Deity of IT perhaps?
by gargantuan gary · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to Job Title: BSBH
Think it’s really scary to have some much work… perhaps only a deity could do that? hmmmm anyway cheers for doing a good job.
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September 7, 2004 at 4:34 am #2716201
You aren’t alone
by jwagdy · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Well, you aren’t alone. I do the same thing in the company I work for. Though in Egypt 50K US$ is allot of money. I get paid what is equivalent to 6775 US$ (42K L.E) per year which is very good for Egypt. I wouldn’t mind doing the same thing for the 50 grand though :).
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September 7, 2004 at 8:19 am #2716130
Very good for Egypt
by clindell · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to You aren’t alone
Well you might get paid very good for Egypt, but one thing I keep reminding everyone is the cost of living in the USA can be tremendously different from one location to another. One location might be barely getting by with terrible commutes just to get to the job another could be very good for your particular location with a short drive or walk and very nice home prices. I would not be quick to jump on ANY job without first doing my homework and finding out what the local conditions are and what my quality of life will be with the pay I receive.
After all do we ?live to work? or ?work to live??
I choose the later ?work to live? even though I enjoy what I do for the most part. If I did not have to work I would choose not to and do things that I enjoy more like my hobbies and not have to report to an office. But until I win a lottery or need to retire I will work for an income be it from any employer or myself serving a need that I am compensated for fairly.
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September 9, 2004 at 12:59 am #2718419
Absolutely right
by jwagdy · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to Very good for Egypt
Well Clindell,
You are absolutely right about the differences of locations and its effect in the decision making process. When I got that job a year and half ago I was living 10 mins walking, now I?m 30 mins by Taxi because I had to change the place ( I was renting ).
I hate the fact that I “live to work”. That would be killing. I ?work to live? while enjoying the other activities I do in my free time ( If I got some ) or in the week ends.
I agree that if we are to live a good life despite day-to-day work pressure, we must love what we do specially our full time job.
Winning a lottery sound like a good idea, but do you think that sitting home or doing nothing ( computers if you love working with them ) in general will make you happy or satisfied? It won?t work for me. I though about it, having money itself will not make me satisfied as much as the work of my hands. Money to me is tool that I use to accomplish other tasks in my life and make it valuable.
But you know what, sometime we swap positions, so now ?I live to work? (though I hate it but this is for a very short period) to raise money.
My mission right now, is to save as much money as I can ( hopefully that would end by June next year ) by which I would have got to my target number. Later I thinking of moving to the US ( don?t worry I won?t get your job for sure 🙂 ).
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September 7, 2004 at 6:43 am #2716164
Bottom line
by eva2k1 · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Network admins are facing several problems: One, the economy has tanked in the last few years, two, more competition for college graduates who went into the program expecting to make a lot of money, three, competition with overseas workers willig to work for a fourth or what we make in the US, and the list goes on.
50K is unacceptable! Somebody with your responsibilities should be making at least 65 to 70K. I agree, you should bank on the experience. Try to stay at least a year, and update your resume everytime you get a new assignment… Most importantly do not stop looking.
I wish you the best luck. -
September 7, 2004 at 12:28 pm #2716026
My deepest sympathies
by cjnmis · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Dude, sounds like you are up the proverbial river without a paddle. I’m not sure what I would do in your position.
With all of the crap you are doing, seems like CIO would be the most appropriate title for you, as you do quite a bit of managing of the budget and technology.
I have the most respect for someone in your position that has to do so much with so little.
Regards,
Chad -
September 8, 2004 at 6:39 am #2715830
I feel your pain
by weeze · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
I am in much the same situation with my job and with no relief in sight. I have made my short-term career goals very clear to my manager (the guy that I do his job and my job for) and gotten a lot of lip service and pillow talk. I am going back to school this spring for my MBA (part-time) and will further reevaluate my options there.
Keep fighting the good fight!
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September 14, 2004 at 12:21 pm #2706974
sounds like…
by heml0ck · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
I have a friend who was once in the same situation.
We called him the manager… -
September 15, 2004 at 3:01 pm #2707189
You are a
by mabradford · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
UNDERPAID slab of meat with a number assigned to it. That is how the small business and corporations view you. You are a TOOL – Fool. You are part of what keeps the industry standards down. Tell these owners to screw themselves and do their own work and see how much they think it’s worth. Find a higher paying job. You don’t need these arrogant business owners who would sell their own daughters for a loaf of bread and a glass of wine to save a buck. That’s why U.S. businesses are hated and mistrusted around the world. You have to get out of the “starving give me a job” state of mind. There’s plenty of work out there to pay you what you’re worth. You know your self-worth, now make them know it and pay you – or move on. You must play the same barbarian “they are slabs of meat with numbers on them” that they play. They didn’t create the money they give you. The Bankers do that and if you try to make your own – you get the axe – literally. These business people just understand the dumb masses with bloakes like you. Gather some self-esteem dude and move on if the punk you work for doesn’t want to pay you. If they are so great – then let them do their own work and spend their own time of life on the pay they don’t want to give you. Spreading the wealth is the name of the game that makes Capitalizm work. If some punk business know it all doesn’t want to share in that theory – then you don’t need them. Move on.
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September 21, 2004 at 12:31 pm #2712565
you’re under paid
by mtaylor · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Resumes like yours listed tend to read quite impressively. If you are doing all of the things you say you are doing then you are actually a LAN manager, not administrator. There are things that we dont know though…for instance, you are also doing end user support, is that for 10 users or 500? Server administration…4 servers or 35?? See my point? That being said, I am in NJ and earning quite a bit more than that for doing server administration only (for the most part. I work for a large company. 5 of us in my group support about 150 servers. I have been at several companies over the past 6 years and can say in all cases I did not do all of the things you listed and made more money. If you can also handle the budgeting/manager side than you are worth more in my opinion. if you can handle the same tasks at a company of say 400 or more employees you can assume a pay in NJ between 65 90. I am sure of it. Good luck.
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September 28, 2004 at 10:17 am #2707898
You are me!
by arouna · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
I think a Information Systems Manager is more approbriate or even IT Director
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September 28, 2004 at 11:30 am #2707838
Reply To: They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
by ssangodare · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Clindell,
You’re a Systems Manager and severely underpaid. (Hey, you didn’t hear that from me.) Please don’t go postal on your employer and demand a salary increase right away. If you like the job and are very happy with it and can live within the range of the salary, then hang in and keep your eye open for opportunities elsewhere. Good luck!
Sam S.
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September 28, 2004 at 12:20 pm #2707822
On Target
by toucan · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Unfortunately, that’s the role of most small shop IT guys. One is left alone to handle everything top to bottom. The difficult problem is that to large companies a jack of all trades is viewed as not much more than a senior helpdesk, maybe an administrator.
Break out into a larger shop and experience the mind numbing boredom of the engineer, watching over 40 firewalls and 100 or routers. Every mouse click documented three ways to Sunday and a change management board to review each proposed actions required. Well paid baby sitters?
Try IT management for a while, you get to bethe crap buffer for your team, deal with bizarre personality issues, unexplained absences by staff and deliver it on time under budget. Mobody stands too close as you have the bullseye for anything that needs a technology scapegoat. Document everything, play politic and slowly watch your marketable skills erode while you manage.
Hang out your own shingle and consult. Now you’re the sales guy, business office and talent, plus the ultimate scapegoat.All that said, it’s not so negative. Find the role you really like balance with a salary that pays the bills. Let’s face it, most people hate thier job, if you can say you don’t hate it, get along with the people you work with and can pay your bills — probably you’re better off than most folks.
BTW, you should be referred to as IS Manager for all the title is worth. The pay seems fair enough, maybe 55k-60k. Pay is comensurate with experience AND RISK.
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September 30, 2004 at 8:24 am #2702020
Toucan, Great response!
by clindell · about 19 years, 6 months ago
In reply to On Target
I appricate your response, especially from the engineer prospective. I have been the IT manager before and had that target on my back and learned the hard way. I can say been there-done-that to some of the jobs you listed.
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April 24, 2005 at 9:43 pm #3243685
IT Director
by mwyatt63 · about 18 years, 11 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
You do the same thing as I do but my title is “IT Director”. If you are handling budgeting, planning, implementation, ordering, and you also take care of all the brreak/fix and support issues with Hw and SW then that is what you are.
I would discuss a possible title change. At least to IT manager (anything that shows that you have sole responsibility for their IT dept0>
Hope that helps!
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June 14, 2005 at 7:04 am #3192796
What you are is of value to some
by numarx1 · about 18 years, 9 months ago
In reply to They call me a Network Administrator, but what am I really?
Greetings my friend:
I can respect how you feel, having all that responsibility.
I my self would love to have the challenge that you
seemed to have mastered. But I am only doing level 2
support and trying to get the knowledge you have
earned over the years. Then ofcourse, I would seek
better paying opps. So, if I were in your shoes, I would
certainly want to have at least (2) people working
under me so I could delegate the responsibilities. The
2 people would have Level 1-3 support experience and
deserve annual salries between 28k-36k expecting
them to be on call in rotation and working 45hr work
weeks.I hope this information helps. As for the salry you
deserve…. Pending demographic location from 55k –
80k.Good Luck and please aknoledge my post,
Best Regards,
Wayne
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