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  • #2193422

    Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

    Locked

    by mjwx ·

    With all of us techie?s getting lost in the fun of windows bashing I feel it is important to remember that there are other buggy, poorly-written, unusable, proprietary operating systems available (until recently permanently attached to equally as dreadful hardware I?m just waiting for ?why doesn’t my modem not work on my MacIntel?).

    In the spirit of being fair we should give windows a break (if you don’t want to bash two OS?s at once) and bash Mac OS X for a while.

    So feel free to complain about the inadequacies, uselessness and general annoyance of a Mac whether it?s on its own or in a pristine Linux (or even a moderately clean Windows) environment, but if you dont mind I am going to begin with my rant.

    I have Mac users complaining about putting in passwords because Mac?s can hold on to a password. Every time they want to access their email or the internet they need to re-enter their password. It?s not like I didn?t painstakingly spend 3 days on giving just 4 machines internet and email access (in a SBS 2003 domain), its not like they have a harder password than anyone else, its just that their crappy OS cant hold a password and it?s not like they can?t do everything they do on a PC (they do web graphics 90% of the time).

    Mac motherboard broken? Then spend $2000 AUD on a new Mac. PC mobo broken? Then spend $200 AUD on a new mobo (and maybe an hour or two doing a repair install for XP if you couldn?t find the same board).

    And while it takes M$ 3 months to reply to your request for support AT LEAST THEY REPLY.

    And what does the Mac have going in its favor, aesthetics but that is debatable.

    Rant over (maybe more to come don?t know yet).

    Mike

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    • #3097444

      MAC rant

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      I am of a more forgiving nature so again I will try to stay with something nice to say. hmmm. This is harder than I thought. hmmm.

      I know!

      MAC users dress nicer!

      What else? Oh I know!

      MAC users don’t clutter their brains with all kinds of technical knowledge, leaving more room free for puffs of dust and such to float around in the empty areas! ;\

      Third which remains to be seen.

      MAC users have a sence of humor? Well, we will see, depending oh now this post is recieved! 😀

      • #3097432

        ummm …

        by stargazerr ·

        In reply to MAC rant

        Are you Mac user bashing??

        ]:)

        • #3097409

          Who? ME?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to ummm …

          Bashing is such a harsh term. I prefer to think of it as pointing out the obvious, much in the way George Carlin does his observational humor!

          MAC users are a funny animal! They also make my grandma look like a propeller head in comparison! 😀

          They even have to keep the mouse with only one button as the users would get confused if you threw in a second button on them! :^O

        • #3097407

          oooooohhhhhhhhhh

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to Who? ME?

          I like that!!!!

          “They even have to keep the mouse with only one button as the users would get confused if you threw in a second button on them!”

        • #3097776

          Mac-n-Mouse

          by ball5ball5 ·

          In reply to oooooohhhhhhhhhh

          I have been playing with Macs for a few years now, enjoying their child-like simplicity and overall ‘cutesy’ factor. It never occurred to me until they made a huge production out of the release of a 2-button mouse, but what the h*ll took them so long to come around to doing it? As I said, I had only played around with Macs, never a serious user. How did all these graphic-minded people ever get along without the 2nd button or even a scroll wheel? Yeesh- I can’t even get through a half-hour of Office without getting a numb scroll finger.

          One of the reasons I stayed away from Macs in the office area was I’ve never had the time nor the money to repair them. Mac parts are hard to come by even these days and were even more difficult a few short years ago. You couldn’t just run down to the local Computer store and pick up a new NIC or a modem. And when you were able to locate parts the cost was just ridiculous.

          I must say, though- my ‘new’ eMac is pretty cool with it’s OS X. The core seems to be Linux and it’s very stable and responsive. And it’s just plain fun to use. Damned thing weighs about 70 lbs. though, but so far, so good. I see where the Intel chips are going into Macs now so perhaps that will open up the architecture a bit more for us poorer folk.

        • #3109833

          bash away, but get the facts right

          by jake2006 ·

          In reply to Mac-n-Mouse

          To be factual and clear:

          Macs have been able to use two or more buttons for years.
          Apple just chose to no sell one. Apparently they felt the OS was
          fine without one. Go figure.

          In my experience, Macs don’t need replacement parts as much
          as cheap PCs. A quality PC from IBM or a Mac from Apple, just
          seem to work pretty darn well for three to five years. You get
          what you pay for, and I know many folks who bought cheap PCs
          or built their own that are constantly needing to replace cheap
          parts.

          Finally, OS X is based on a flavor of UNIX, not Linux.

          Cheers

        • #3094050

          Not Linux

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Mac-n-Mouse

          Macs are based off BSD Unix “on top of” the Mach Microkernel.

          I agree with the one button mouse thing. While multi-button mice have been available for a while, I wish the laptops came with built in with at least a two button mouse. The single button is annoying.

          I’m also concered about the move to the x86 and the kernel performance, but we’ll see

        • #3108770

          expensive to REPAIR???

          by hiredgun469 ·

          In reply to Mac-n-Mouse

          Sounds like you just have bad luck or you just don’t know what
          you’re doing. I bought my first Mac in 1995 and I have NEVER
          had to put a penny into a repair. Not even a battery!! I still use
          this machine. It’s not my main Mac right now, but it still does
          money making work for me. My father-in-law is on his 4th PC,
          because they either become slow with programs that are
          installed or they just stop working. And around my small town,
          in order to get something to work you have to pay them $75 an
          hour and after just 2 or 3 hours you almost have a new PC
          payed for. Macs are solid machines and yes like every computer
          they do have some problems. But overall they’re rock solid.
          And now that the OS is UNIX based, there is so much more you
          can do with them. So if you’re a Windows user and like to hack
          the backend code or whatever…hack away. Have you ever dove
          into the Terminal? I could write all day about this subject, but it
          would be a waste of time. But I would like to say one other
          thing, and that is that I hate when uneducated people say, “but
          you can buy thousands of programs for a PC”. Sure you can.
          You can for a Mac also, but reguardless of the platform, after
          selecting about 20 – 30 programs, the rest are either programs
          that do the same as other ones, but may have a different GUI.
          Or they are just crappy, buggy, worthless programs. The first
          20 – 30 are money making productive programs and the others
          are time wasters. Also keep in mind a lot of the Windows
          “inovations” are ideas stolen from the Mac and then done wrong.

        • #3134631

          Typical left-handed comment

          by mickeymac ·

          In reply to oooooohhhhhhhhhh

          as a ‘lefty’ you should appreciate the one-button-mouse. There is
          no confusion about which is the ‘right’ mouse button, even when
          you are “cack-handed”!

        • #3097401

          Now that we have established …

          by stargazerr ·

          In reply to Who? ME?

          That we are not bashing Mac users … Lets get down to some serious ……. ummmm uhhh … Oh, what the hell … BASHING …. 😀

          Mac users are also people with a lot of patience (time to set the thing up) and a lot of money (stuff that has to be bought when upgrading or replacing )

          ]:)

        • #3099875

          Think that’s bad..

          by tryten ·

          In reply to Who? ME?

          try letting a MAC user handle a Logitec MX510 with 8 buttons….
          Two standard right\left buttons
          Two thumb buttons (programmable)
          Scroll wheel
          Scroll wheel button
          Two scroll buttons (programmable)
          Window switch button (functions like atl-tab)

        • #3098987

          now that

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Think that’s bad..

          is just being mean! 😀

        • #3109499

          Hey Hello?

          by neildsouza ·

          In reply to Think that’s bad..

          The computer was made to make your life easy. Only us dumb
          humans want to complicate that simplicity. Why would you want
          to use an 8 button mouse, bro?

          That said, the Mac OS is the most sophisticated system. Even
          more sophisticated than Windows. It’s UNIX to the core. So it’s
          better, right?

          The Mac rules as a simple and easy to use machine. The learning
          curve is very short. The advantage… even your granny would be
          able to use a Mac.

          Tell me again why you want to complicate that process?

          Unless you’re that nosy guy that threw a fit when the world
          introduced laser mice. Why? Coz he could clean the balls
          anymore!!!!

        • #3134640

          Still haven’t cracked open the OS Manual

          by sonicbridge ·

          In reply to Hey Hello?

          Started with Apple in the 80’s and have been enmeshed with PC’s since. Bought a G5 in September last year and still haven’t cracked open the OS Manual. I’m sure I will eventually find something other than the mouse to complain about; but please let me enjoy the bliss a little while longer. I still own both. PC for practical business matters and Mac for my creative endeavors.

        • #3109340

          Buttons Buttons Who can use the buttons.

          by wlbowers ·

          In reply to Who? ME?

          Naw! it’s because a Mac person can do more with one button
          that a PC person could do with 3.

          Control click brings up contextual menus. And they change with
          what you click on.

          I have installed and programmed the logitec 4 button mice for
          PC users only to have them call me to remember what they were
          programmed for.

          To scared to click on them I guess.

          Keep trying though.

      • #3099352

        Hmmm..

        by brichpmr9 ·

        In reply to MAC rant

        If you use a Mac or a PC, you have a MAC address on your machine; so you’re a MAC user 🙂

        • #3098174

          Please elaborate

          by jardinier ·

          In reply to Hmmm..

          I do not understand what you are saying.

        • #3098034

          Well…

          by brichpmr9 ·

          In reply to Please elaborate

          MAC is an acronym for Media Access Control, which identifies your local machine’s address. A Mac is something else…:-)

        • #3098695

          Actually

          by hetzel ·

          In reply to Well…

          I think it’s Machine Address Code.

        • #3098932

          My Netgear Router..

          by brichpmr9 ·

          In reply to Actually

          defines it as Media Access Control. At any rate, a MAC is not a Macintosh.

        • #3098882

          media access control

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to My Netgear Router..

          just remember that the media that is refered to is the cable that you plug into, not media as in multi-media applications.

          either way, both mac “computers” and Windoze computers have both addapted the UNIX protocols of tcp/ip in order to get on the web.

          The mac and windows protocols used before did not scale well beyond a ten user lan.

          Thank goodness for Unix, or we wouldn’t have an internet now to discuss this on! 😀

        • #3109966

          It is indeed…

          by Anonymous ·

          In reply to My Netgear Router..

          It is indeed Media Access Control – a 48 bit hexadecimal address that identifies your machine in a network. Each is unique in the world.

          And to other post on TCP/IP and Unix, well we don’t have Unix to thank for that, we actually have DARPA (formely ARPA) to thank for that. ARPA Net became the internet in short. TCP/IP was invented as a means to allow control over military hardware via a decentralised military network in event of Nuclear Strike. Experimentation lead to ARPA Net and eventually it adapted to the Ethernet quite well. Anyway, short history lesson and off topic.

          Mac’s rule. OS X is simple yet also very powerful.

        • #3109978

          Ah! So you’re a Mac User! ;)

          by lbrum ·

          In reply to Please elaborate

          Yeah, that.

          A PC user knows what a MAC address is, just by hearing about it (even he never used that thing for any purpose – it just pops up when you need to evaluate Wireless security or type in ipconfig /all, to get your IP address).
          It will show there, so they know about it…

          EDIT: I saw another post of yours later.
          It appears that you are a PC User. I am confused about the reason of your doubts…
          My users don’t know what a MAC address is, by they do kinow about IPCONFIG, since sometimes I need their IP in order to access their machines remotelly. That brings about MAC address, which I sometimes ask of them, when they have more than one machine and can’t figure out which is which…

          Anyway, accept my apology, please.

        • #3110198

          Just goes to show…

          by jake2006 ·

          In reply to Ah! So you’re a Mac User! ;)

          that there are all user levels on all OSes. I have seen secretaries on
          Linux. If you judge an OS by its users, Windows is the dumbest by
          sheer numbers of ignorant users.

      • #3109701

        Mac Users…

        by susan_h ·

        In reply to MAC rant

        Mac users get the job done, while PC users are still trying to figure
        out how.

        Mac users can spell!

        And yes, I have a sense of humor–and if it weren’t so frustrating,
        I’d be chuckling over the daily agony at work served up by
        Microsoft.

    • #3097435

      The Spinning Pizza-Wheel Of Death

      by stargazerr ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      Whenever you go to do something in OS X, the spinning rainbow cursor appears and stays on the screen for a long time before anything happens. Obviously what is happening is that something in the background is using a bunch of CPU time and keeping other actions from being executed normally, or an application is hunting for needed data that it can’t find.

      Usually it can be fixed the same way that you fix an installation of OS X that is running too slowly. That is, run Repair Permissions, and reset your user preferences …

      But thats not the point .. The point is .. That this is STUPID.

      ]:)

    • #3097398

      bash macs?

      by jaqui ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      only in thier horrible case design and corrupted unix os.
      [ you actually have to port unix applications to macos they don’t run on it otherwise, so macos is not a true posix unix. { and to be unix it has to be posix or it fails the primary design philosphy } ]

      the actual hardware is good quality.

      but they really need to rethink this rounded case crap. you can’t put it into the workstation space DESIGNED to hold a system, the mac is incompatable with a convienient, out of the way, positioning of the case.

      then they went one step further in making the inside of the case “clean” they got rid of the cabling..you have to hard dock the drives into specific slots built into the granny[smith]board [ it can’t be a motherboard on a MAC ] like what happens when the slot gets damaged? throw the overpriced thing in the garbage and buy another over priced thing?
      far better to just replace a cable.

      • #3109874

        Re: Bash Macs

        by igner ·

        In reply to bash macs?

        Yes, OS X is based on BSD, which makes it closer to Unix than
        Linux. Yes, it is not fully posix compliant. Yes, many (not all)
        Unix apps need to be ported to OS X, but a lot of that has to do
        with the fact that doesn’t have X11 installed by default, but it’s a
        trivial task to install and run). And point me at a Unix box that’s
        usable by the *average* end-user.

        As far as the hardware – how often are you swapping hardware
        such that there’s a risk of damaging slots? If you’re damaging
        slots inserting a drive, what’s to say that you won’t damage
        cable pin outs swapping bad cables…

        I’ve seen plenty of horrible case designs in the PC world, as well.

        • #3109760

          plenty of bad design everywhere

          by dryflies ·

          In reply to Re: Bash Macs

          There has been improvement. When I worked on MACs you could not expand them at all without a soldering iron. (I had to do something to get through college) We got in a bunch mac 512 upgrades and had to desolder and resolder to do the upgrade.
          I have a friend I work with at a non-profit as a volunteer. he has a mac. when he produces flyers for the organization, I have to spend more time converting it to something the world can read than he spent making the D**N thing.

        • #3110196

          Instead of giving him a fish…

          by jake2006 ·

          In reply to plenty of bad design everywhere

          teach the man to fish. There are tons of applications on the Mac
          that produce the same file formats as their PC counterparts. And
          tons of apps on both platforms that have proprietary formats.

          If he is running OS X, he can just print to a pdf file and the world
          can read it!

    • #3097201

      Not OS Problems

      by davemori ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      Your frustration is evident, but it sounds like you have a USER problem, not a Mac OS X problem.

      Hardware problems don’t equate to an OS problem.

      User rantings over putting in passwords do not stem from an OS problem. More like a security training problem. Use biometrics if you have to.

      Support problems don’t equate to an OS problem, they equate to a lack of a knowledgeable staff.

      Besides, according to your own info, this is just 4 machines. 4 is not a huge number of users and not massive amounts of hardware. I have a hard time believing that your 4 Macs have that many motherboard failures and cost that much to get authorized service.

      You appear to be doing what psychologists call EXAGGERATION AND PROJECTION. You don’t get along with 4 mac users and you prefer other technologies, so you exaggerate the issues and project your technical problems on an inanimate OS.

      • #3097126

        not motherboard

        by jaqui ·

        In reply to Not OS Problems

        granny[smith]board

      • #3097835

        a little from column A and a little from column B

        by mjwx ·

        In reply to Not OS Problems

        i have both problems. using the password senario as an example, they have only one password that they can complain about but they have to put this password in every single time they open a web browser.

        i get along well with three of the four mac users. when we are not talking about mac’s (or PC’s). they are actualy quiet good people.

        i had one motherboard failure and it was on a brand new G5 (three weeks old at the time) fortunately it was replaced out of warenty.

        i suppose i am EXAGGERATING and PROJECTING a little bit but if i didn’t i’d be a certifiable nutcase by now.

        • #3259685

          To answer your problem with the Internet Browser…

          by lodai ·

          In reply to a little from column A and a little from column B

          Disable their Browser Keychain to prevent the user from being asked for their password.
          To get to the rant…

          I have to work with a combination of PC and MAC machines and users. The difference that I noticed is that the PC user will generally have more patience with an issue (wait for a process to finish and then continue with work), but our MAC users put in a support call the minute their machines “blip” the wrong way.
          But as a strictly design perspective the PowerMac G5 is a 70lb thing of beauty (we have them locked down so a user cannot access the internal hardware). The good thing is that the MAC’s here are strictly used for design purposes and the PC’s for everything else.
          The posts regarding support or lack there of from Apple are correct. The “Apple certified” support centres are a joke and a rip-off which is why we now deal directly with Apple, (though the turn-around has much left to be desired)… That’s my rant.

        • #3259620

          When you say…

          by brichpmr9 ·

          In reply to To answer your problem with the Internet Browser…

          the PCs are used for ‘everything else,’ what exactly does that mean? Our PC users have to be patient because we need to test out all patches and security updates before we upgrade the XP systems. The OSX Macs chug along with the periodic point upgrades and security patches, pretty much without issues. I agree that Apple needs to improve their enterprise support. However, aside from proprietary enterprise apps, written only for Windows, there is actually very little that couldn’t be done on the Macs that we currently use the PCs for.

        • #3259613

          Apps specific to the PC…

          by lodai ·

          In reply to When you say…

          I agree that pretty much most common apps have been ported to the Mac. Most of the “everything else” are apps written only for the PC. Our main system is still Win2000. For our Macs we are running a combination of OS 9.2.2 and OSX (Tiger). We would love to go completely OSX but some apps that the Artist’s/Designers use are not functional under Classic, and they are a stubborn bunch.

      • #3099955

        Management Solution to 4 Macs

        by too old for it ·

        In reply to Not OS Problems

        Find 4 PC users to replace them. Preferably in India or China where they get paid less.

        • #3110194

          Management Solution to supporting 4 Macs

          by jake2006 ·

          In reply to Management Solution to 4 Macs

          Fire the whiney tech and replace him with one that can deal with 4
          Mac users. Saves on training costs.

    • #3097156

      Monetary

      by leobloom ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      My 12 year old Mac goes for around 250 (US)on ebay, Whereas my 5 year old PC is going for between 36 and 56 (US).

      • #3097122

        And?

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Monetary

        which could perform todays work functions of email, worksheets, word proccessing, and access the internet? The 5 year old pc or that 12 year old MAC?

        That is what I thought.

        I have a PII400 my work bought for me back in 98 and it still does every business function that I require of it. 7 years old and does everything I need it to do. Your five year old would be a PIII and does basic business functions just fine.

        Tell me about value again?

        • #3099380

          What a nice coincidence

          by jardinier ·

          In reply to And?

          I purchased a P II 400 about 18 months ago at a school fete for $AU 25.

          I installed Win 98 and later upgraded to 98 SE.

          I do EVERYHING on this machine although I have faster ones available.

        • #3099224

          oh yeah

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to What a nice coincidence

          I run win2kpro, 512 ram, 32m viper card.

          This is even the computer I use to play diabloII on.

          I see using this for AT LEAST one more year without having to put a penny into it.

          Side note, my WORK computer is a 600 celeron running XPpro. 😀 Again, does everything I NEED it to. We don’t buy computers for the ego here. something MAC users could learn from. If you spend all the money a company makes on equipment, it is the same as never making it in the first place.

        • #3094078

          Yeah, but…

          by mchall ·

          In reply to oh yeah

          why play Diablo II when you could be playing World of Warcraft? Buying a new machine is not necessarily a sign of a bloated ego. Some buy for the fun factor. When the game you want to play is too macho for your old machine then it’s time to consider upgrading or replacing it.

          I see this as more a factor with PC gamers than Mac users. PC gamers who want to maintain bragging rights for being on the bleeding edge can get into a new 512MB vid card for upwards of $600 right now. Do this everytime Nvidia or ATI release a new vid card and the costs can rapidly add up. Conversely, I recently read a study that said Mac owners use their machines an average of six years. Split the cost of an iMac over that period and you’re not looking at that big of a price differential.

          Stock 20″ iMac: $1700/6 yrs = $283.34 per year

          PC vid card (assuming chipset upgrade every 18 months): (12 months * 6 years)/18 months = 4 upgrades * $600 = $2400 -or- $400 per year

          I would suggest that frugality and reliance on old hardware strictly comes down the individual owner regardless of the hardware or OS.

          To your point, this is certainly not a “need”. If you don’t have the time, inclination or disposable income to upgrade then it certainly makes sense to stand pat with what you have.

        • #3098659

          OF COURSE

          by leobloom ·

          In reply to And?

          YOUR 5 yr old computer can do more than a 12 year old (YO). But can you get 250 for a 12 YO pc like I can get for my 12 YO MAC. My point was I cant even get that for a 5 YO pc.

          Further more I can (STILL) do email SS and WP and access the internet on my 12 YO mac. And with that functionality it is only using about 170MB of its 250 MB HD

        • #3098590

          value vs price

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to OF COURSE

          I guess this all depends on what you determine as value.

          I take the analynical approach as determing what something is worth by how useful it is to me.

          Others will put emotional value on things like this and pay more based on this unreasonable emotional value.

          What determines price? How badly does someone want it.

          Also, how common is it. Something that is rare will have a higher price as an artifact, not as a computer.

          To claim the old mac is WORTH more just because someone will pay more is like comparing it to yesterdays story about William Shatner selling his kidney stone for $20K to raise money for charity.

          Is his stone WORTH $20K? No. Will someone pay that? Well, they did. So you have the kidney stone of computers on your hands. Take the money and run!

          So while I see your point, I see it as the emotional point, not the logical point I was trying to make.

        • #3098420

          ???

          by leobloom ·

          In reply to value vs price

          WTF are you talking about. An EMOTIONAL point not a logical point????

          You want to imply MAC users are either emotional or as the post after you states, stupid. Either way it is an argumentum ad hominem.

        • #3098014

          Then logically validate your statement

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to ???

          Explain to me why something you ADMIT is not as powerful OR useful would have someone paying MUCH more for it?

          If that isn’t either an emotional attachment, it is stupid. There is no logic involved in spending much more for something that is not nearly as good.

          Emotional is just fine. I buy things because I WANT them. Just be honest about WHY people are offering more for one than the other.

          You are NOT able to say they will pay more for the one because it is a better product. So you tell me, emotional or stupid? I was giving you the benifit of “emotional”, but the other can be put back on the table if you wish?

          As for the “post after”, it was a joke son! you may have heard of them. or don’t mac guys joke about anything? how emotional of you…. 😀

        • #3097846

          You’re still committed to using the ad hominem

          by leobloom ·

          In reply to Then logically validate your statement

          I would like to point out that I am not a MAC Guy. I have been working w/ PC’s since 1988. In 1994 I bought the MAC because I worked at a place that had a few and I wanted to learn more about them. I have 4 computers in my house and the kids prefer the PC so I end up using the MAC. If I WAS a mac guy, I’m thinking I would have bought another since ’94.

          To validate my statement.. I admitted my 5 YO pc is more powerful but I did not say more useful. In fact I noted earlier what I can still do with it. As far as people paying more for something that is less powerful, it happens all the time for reasons other than stupidity or emotion. For example, people buy hybrid autos which are much less powerful than their standard counterparts. Another example, if I bought a pick up truck rather than the sedan I drive it would have been much more powerful (and useful) and less expensive.

        • #3097753

          then by all means

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Then logically validate your statement

          explain how this “value” can be based on logic.

          The only ONE valid reason I will give you is if someone wants it for parts and can’t find them anywhere else.

          Other than that, if it isn’t as powerful, you will have a much harder time supporting it because of parts and software not being available.

          This leaves only the spare parts arguement, that because not many people wanted them 12 years ago, they will have a much harder time finding one now.

        • #3098003

          I didn’t say all Mac users are stupid.

          by faradhi ·

          In reply to ???

          Just the ones that fork out $250 for a 12 year old PC.

          Man, a little sensitive.

        • #3097985

          Not “sensitive”

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to I didn’t say all Mac users are stupid.

          “Emotional”! 😀

        • #3110189

          Your missing the point

          by jake2006 ·

          In reply to value vs price

          The value is based on no only the speed of the hardware but the
          software. Did you forget this was a Mac OS bashing topic? The
          value of the older Macintosh is the ability to run the Mac OS and do
          useful work.

        • #3098581

          So let me get this straight

          by faradhi ·

          In reply to OF COURSE

          You are actually saying that MACs are better because someone is actually stupid enough to pay 10 times as much for a computer that is twice as old and less powerful just because it is a MAC?

          Uh… Ok…

        • #3098569

          lol

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to So let me get this straight

          basicly what I said, just looks like you cut right to the chase….

          And yes, it is funny that he would feel this is validation even after admitting that my system that people would pay less for is much more powerful.

          Goes back to why MAC’s are popular in the first place, and it doesn’t have anything to do with logic. Image. It is all about the image.

        • #3094266

          250 for an old mac…

          by tony ·

          In reply to OF COURSE

          if you can honestly get someone to pay $250 for a mac that old chances are it’s not going to be to someone you actually like. Same applies to old pc’s. With new machines barely costing more than that, at least on the pc side of things there just isnt a real compelling reason to buy anything old thats already more steps behind than something with a warranty and some life to go.

          You might be able to actually get that kind of money, but not with any good concience about it.

          Tonis

        • #3110192

          plenty of 12 year old Macs still useful

          by jake2006 ·

          In reply to And?

          Plenty of old Macs in use doing email, worksheets, word processing
          and access the internet. Macs could access the internet out of the
          box back when you had to jump through hoops to get a PC to do
          the same.

      • #3097834

        supply and demand

        by mjwx ·

        In reply to Monetary

        there simply are more old PC than old Mac’s. basic economics.

        • #3099944

          correct

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to supply and demand

          the fact that no one wanted them back then makes them hard to find for the people with an emotional tie to old equipment that on it’s own has NO value.

        • #3110188

          you are hung up on this emotional thing

          by jake2006 ·

          In reply to correct

          Can’t you accept that other find logical value in something you
          don’t.

        • #3099860

          But why?

          by leobloom ·

          In reply to supply and demand

          Obviously it is supply and demand but I dont think it is simple. For example one might think that the proportion of mac machines to mac users would be similar to the proportion of pc machines to pc users. But I dont think that is the case. I believe as you imply that there are lot more pc machines to pc users than there are mac machines to mac users. Maybe it is because PC users get fed up with their machines after a few years. Although Windows has improved, I especially remember with Win 95 a typical pc practically had to be reimaged after about 2 years or else it was terribly slow. For the lay computer user it is probably easier just to replace your pc every few years. Macs on the other hand are more stable. With my MAC, although I have had to run the repair program several times, I never completely reinstalled the system software. And the only upgrades to the hardware have been the modem and the memory.

        • #3098710

          Repair program

          by jardinier ·

          In reply to But why?

          Perhaps you can answer a question for me. I don’t know which OS you are referring to, but with every (pre OS X) early Mac, the message on the screen tells me that I cannot run the Disc Repair on the start-up disc.

          As the start-up disc happens to be the solitary HDD, then I cannot run Disc Repair.

          This is just another example of how DUMB Mac OSs are compared with Windows in many instances (and in this case DOS also) as Scan Disk can be run on the primary (or only) HDD.

        • #3259752

          On Mac OSX,

          by brichpmr9 ·

          In reply to Repair program

          you have choices. You can run Disk Utility on the start-up drive to verify the disc. If you have a problem, just insert the OS install cd and boot from it; or hold down the OPTION key at start-up and select the bootable clone backup of your entire internal drive you were smart enough to create and repair the internal drive. I have a second internal drive and an external firewire drive, both containing complete bootable clones of my primary drive…it’s trivial to do this on OSX…not as simple with XP and its stupid BIOS and easily screw-upable Registry.

        • #3094246

          It’s trivial…

          by tony ·

          In reply to On Mac OSX,

          it’s only trivial when you know and are familiar with how your OS works. Which comes over time as you need to do something that requires knowing how to do it.

          It would be great if the same procedures to deal with troubleshooting applied to both sides. You might find more people compelled to really not care what OS they use. But realistically with Windows far dominating for so long with far more users the momentum to set any “standards” on procedures on the mac side has never come close to happening.
          If the real desire was to get people to stop using windows and move to OS X, then they would stop trying to do things differently and give those typical users who need to do these things the same procedures to accomplish things.
          Otherwise they really arent going to convert anyone on any real scale ever. They’ll just contiunue to keep some of the past users who don’t want to learn the windows way do things and possibly get the occasional new user who has to learn some way of accomplishing things no matter what they get on.

          Thinking differently with computers can be great when your trying to solve a problem, acting differently is usually the reason for causing problems.

        • #3110184

          why do the same braindead thing?

          by jake2006 ·

          In reply to It’s trivial…

          The real truth is that people like what they first get used to.
          Case in point, many years ago I worked at a university and we
          were evaluating desktop publishing programs to support one.
          There wer e three contenders that we tested. There were three
          testers. Remember that this was in the early days of desktop
          publishing and none of us had prior experience outside of word
          processing. we each started with a different package and rotated
          through all three. End result, each of us liked the first package
          we tested best, and had judged the other two by what we
          learned frim the first one. so if something was doen differently
          in package two, then to us it seemed inferior to the way it was
          doen in package one.

        • #3259060

          Thanks, but

          by jardinier ·

          In reply to Repair program

          You will see my question specifically relates to earlier versions than OS X.

          And yes, Windows registry is a nightmare.

          While I have your attention, can you tell me what Macs use instead of BIOS. There must be some equivalent function which tells the computer what is to be loaded at boot-up.

          You may have read in another post of mine that my G3 either won’t boot at all, or will boot only into 640 X 480 resolution.

          On occasions however it will boot up giving the choice of about 7 screen resolutions and functions perfectly in these instances.

          Is this a hardware or software problem? I have played with dozens or hundreds of PCs of all ages and OSs, and I have NEVER encountered a unit that does not boot up either ALWAYS or not at all, and always gives the same choice of screen resolutions, according to the video card and drivers installed.

        • #3258931

          Hey !

          by jardinier ·

          In reply to Thanks, but

          Are you a faith healer? My G3 just booted up three times in quick succession with all the screen resolutions !

          If it keeps that up I will be encouraged to fully explore OS X.

          And just between you and myself, because of the excellent hardware and Unix-based OS, if I was just starting out and buying my very first computer, it would be a Mac G5.

          Except of course that I couldn’t afford the price. If I had THAT much money to spare, I would upgrade my motor vehicle to a newer model.

        • #3258925

          My solution..

          by brichpmr9 ·

          In reply to Hey !

          to the expense of Macs issue was to buy a refurbished iMac for my son…as good as new and hundreds less. Also, the iMac G5 is fairly reasonable for what you get.

        • #3258627

          Refurbished computer?

          by jardinier ·

          In reply to Hey !

          I think you are missing the point.

          Why would I buy a refurbished Mac computer when I could buy a BRAND NEW PC for probably half the price of a refurbished Mac?

          At the store where I purchase my electrical items (including computers) for a small additional price I can get extended warranty for four years on top of the manufacturer’s warranty of one year — 5 years all up.

          This came in very handy recently when the hard drive failed in a particular PC which I had purchased new WITH extended warranty.

          The original unit had a 10 GB HDD, but at the time of the repair the smallest HDD available was a 40 GB. So I came out on top with that one because the extended warranty cost was a fraction of the cost of a new 40 GB HDD.

          Anyhow if my G3 continues to behave itself I will accredit you with the gift of faith healing.

          And here is an example of price comparison. My G3 is the last model released that did not have an internal modem.

          No problem. Buy an external modem — yes at a cost of $AU 170 when the PC equivalent was $AU 70.

        • #3258901

          boot to the cd

          by leobloom ·

          In reply to Repair program

          You have to boot with the System CD to repair the HD in the 7.? MAC systems

        • #3258625

          Thanks for the tip

          by jardinier ·

          In reply to boot to the cd

          Will do. 🙂

      • #3109970

        Your old Mac is an EXPENSIVE piece of garbage, LOL!

        by lbrum ·

        In reply to Monetary

        Exactly WHAT did it do in the time you used it to justify the difference in cost?

        And why have you moved on to the PC in the first place?…

        I’m rather curious!…

        Oh, and what about software costs? Wasn’t the Mac’s one also more expensive to perform identical functions?…

        As you can see, I am putting it all in the same basis as you (compared cost/benefit) and I am very much curious about your input.

        Thanks
        Leo.

        • #3094121

          Alright Curious George

          by leobloom ·

          In reply to Your old Mac is an EXPENSIVE piece of garbage, LOL!

          As I already posted previously: I have been working w/ PC’s since 1988. In 1994 I bought the MAC because I worked at a place that had a few and I wanted to learn more about them. I have 4 computers in my house and the kids prefer the PC so I end up using the MAC. If I WAS a mac guy, I’m thinking I would have bought another since ’94.

          As far as a cost difference, around the time when I purchased it, my sister bought an intel 486 pc and it was less than 100 dollars cheaper than my mac. Both came with similar bundles, except where she got MS Works my MAC had Claris works.

          Regarding cost/benefit, I did not do any cost benefit analysis, I merely searched e-Bay to see what I could get for my MAC and what I could Get for a PC. The purpose of the post was that despite what people say about MACs they do seem to retain value longer, for what ever reason.

    • #3099377

      I approached the matter with an open mind

      by jardinier ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      Having known for years that Macintosh was a religion and not a brand of computer, I did however acquire several models second-hand just to learn about them.

      I can’t speak for OS X. I have a Power G3 with 10.2 but it has a problem with booting up — usually just gives 640 X 480 resolution — and I am not going to spend any money fixing a Mac.

      However I have (or used to have) numerous models from Mac Plus through to various LC models and an iMac.

      User friendly? You’ve got to be kidding. I can only speak for systems up to 9.2, but they crash (freeze) far more often than Windows of similar vintage and there is no Ctrl + Alt + Del to restart them. It is switch off the power and start again from scratch.

      They send up far more error messages than Windows, the favourite being: “Such-and-such could not be done because of an unknown (or unexpected) error.”

      And now I will give you a classic example of a dedicated Mac-addict. I was at a garage sale where there was a relatively early model for sale. I got into conversation with a man who was a Macaddict.

      “My Mac is wonderful,” he assured me.

      “And what do you do with your older files that are stored on floppy?” I asked.

      “I burn them onto CD on another computer,” he replied proudly without apparently being aware of the absurdity of what he had just said.

      I have had a friend (neighbour) for many years — at least 15 I would think — who earns his living writing about IT.

      He has never used anything but Macs. He calmly describes to me all the many glitches of the various Mac OSs — at least as many if not more than Windows — but still slogs away at his Macs.

      One plus for Macs is that the OS discs do not have serial numbers so it is easy to use them on as many computers as you like (does anyone ever read a EULA?)

      HOWEVER, when I asked my friend to burn a copy of his OS 9.2 disc, he found that it was apparently copy-protected. Now wouldn’t Bill Gates save himself a lot of worry if he thought to do something as simple as that?

      • #3099357

        Thanks….

        by brichpmr9 ·

        In reply to I approached the matter with an open mind

        for sharing your ignorance about current Macs…lends you a lot of credibility. If I judged Windows PCs on the P2 350 running Win 95 (which my company purchased for me in 1998, and I ran for 3 years), I’d conclude that Windows was a total POS and PCs, in general, sucked goat balls. Happily, my newer XP Pro P4 runs just fine for typical corporate apps…however, it runs no better or productively than the Mac OSX box I’m typing this post on. Both platforms are stable if you know what the f*ck you’re doing….some of the ‘tribal wisdom’ spewed around here is totally lame.

        • #3099211

          Actually

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Thanks….

          His post was a lot less biased than yours.

          He clearly stated what his experiences were, and where they came from. At no point did he say anything about current MAC’s as he stated he didn’t know about them.

          I am not “up” on current Mac’s myself, but are the systems he is talking about really 8 years old like the pc you are talking about, or the OS 11 years old as again the one you are talking about? If so, then have a fair point, even if it wasn’t delivered in an unbiased fashion.

          If the systems he was talking about are NOT 8 and 11 years old respectively, then you are intentionally being dishonest in your example as they are not and even comparison?

          Note, both he and I both use a PII 400 daily and have no problems. How many 8 year old MAC’s do you still use for ALL YOUR business needs?

          Other equally fair question, how many home users know what the “f*ck” they are doing?
          How many WORK users know what the “f*ck” they are doing?

          I thought that was the whole POINT of a MAC, that you DON’T have to know what your doing. “Easy of use” is suppose to be the big seller fo macs?

          Sounds like we need to load linux on all of them and get it over with! 😀

          Disclaimer, I by no means am a Windows advocate. I like to bash windows as much as the next guy! But how could I pass up this discussion, being the equal opportunity offender that I am?

        • #3099206

          Actually…

          by brichpmr9 ·

          In reply to Actually

          Both Macs and PCs can be easy to use, but a user needs a minimal level of knowledge to run either securely and reliably. In my company P2 400 systems are in no way adequate to run XP Pro…we have replaced them all with, at minimum, P4 or 2.4 gig Celerons. The poster I was responding to was drawing conclusions about Mac OS, based on nothing more current than OS 9.2…which is not supported by Apple. In terms of ‘bias,’ I am biased toward opinions based on daily hands-on use of OSX and XP Pro using the same/similar apps….that’s my daily experience…what about you??

        • #3099184

          Actually….

          by faradhi ·

          In reply to Actually…

          I was just looking for a place to put my 200th post.

          Additionally, my tribal council says all three OS’s have their benefits and drawbacks. All have their uses.

          However the bones tell me that the MAC will go away before Windows and Linux. It seems to me that Apple may be making a move to consumer electronics.

          WooWooWooWooWoo

        • #3094221

          Apparently you missed…

          by mchall ·

          In reply to Actually…

          the line where he said “I can’t speak for OS X.” This is what’s commonly known as a “disclaimer”. jardinier was only offering a historical perspective of past versions of the OS (with both pros and cons), not a criticism of the current one.

          Never assume.

    • #3098171

      My apologies

      by jardinier ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      I did not at first register that the discussion was only about OS X, and so talked about earlier versions of Mac OSs.

      I think it is quite pointless to have a Mac bashing discussion that is only about OS X because everybody knows it is a good OS, and at least on a par with, if not better than Windows XP.

      • #3098636

        Forgiven

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to My apologies

        😀

        I personally don’t know much about OS X, other than it runs on proprietary hardware that is more expensive than the competition.

        I also only see the advertising to see who the target audiences are.

        Finally, I see the end results of a user that has bought into the MAC “thing”, and the average MAC WORKER has the same technical knowledge as the HOME AOL user. Which is NOTHING.

        I would welcome a MAC advocate that is ALSO knowledgeable with PC’s to do a side-by-side comparison.

        Spend the same ammount of money on the system, with the os, (OS X vs WinXPproSP2).

        If we spend the same ammount on the systems, how fast is this Mac and how fast is this PC? (please link to the systems chosen for the comparison)
        What is the “uptime” of each, or tbf (time between falures).
        If I want to drop in more memory for each, say add and extra gig of RAM, how much will this cost in a side by side comparison?
        I need a bigger hard drive, say 200 gig as a slave drive. Can I do it, and if so, how much for each?

        To be fair, on the PC side, add in AV software as part of the required price.

        Total cost for each would be?

        I am open to hear what the advocates have to say.
        Is this a cost effective way to get out from under the thumb of MS?

        • #3097807

          I can see that you are a Windows man

          by jardinier ·

          In reply to Forgiven

          You would like to compare Mac OS X with Windows XP Pro updated to SP2.

          There have been three upgrades to the original OS X:

          10.2 Jaguar
          10.3 Panther
          10.4 Tiger

          These have upgraded the OS possibly/probably to a greater degree than SP 1 and SP 2 upgraded XP Pro.

        • #3097750

          just trying to be fair

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to I can see that you are a Windows man

          compare the “latest and greatest” each has to offer on a head to head basis and show me how they stack up. Like I said, I am not up on MAC’s, but will listen to what someone has to say provided they can come up with a logical explaination and comparison to show why dollar for dollar I would be better off with a MAC in my life.

          I have not gotten around to loading my linux desktop as all my “free” time has been taken up working on my house, getting it ready to sell. (part of divorce agreement)

          I am actually more interested in the hardware diffences though.

          Also, just how much of a change will the new chipset change MAC’s?

        • #3094132

          OS Agnostic

          by mchall ·

          In reply to just trying to be fair

          I program for PCs at the office but have been using a Mac PowerBook G4 at home and on the road for about a year now.

          HARDWARE:

          From a pure hardware cost standpoint I found that for my budget and the features I wanted there was not much difference between Apple and other major notebook manufacturers like Dell. At first glance PC notebooks appeared cheaper, but once I started adding features to the base configuration the price rapidly went up. The PowerBook came fully loaded with everything I wanted.

          One of the things that gave me pause were the updgrade limitations for Apple laptops. RAM upgrades are easy. Everything else is pretty much out of the picture. If you’re a gamer and are used to upgrading your audio and video cards periodically you may be a bit disappointed. On the other hand I recently read a study that said Apple owners use their machines for an average of six years, which would imply that the gaming industry does not drive the technology on Macs as hard as it does on PCs. The new chipset may change that as it makes a wider range of media cards accessible.

          There are a lot of good reviews surfacing regarding the new chipset, so I won’t give it broad coverage here. Most indicate that stability has not been a problem and speed increases are greatest on native code (versus legacy code using the Rosetta emulator). Few software incompatibility issues have been reported.

          SOFTWARE:

          The hidden cost of switching to an Apple is in the software. If you must have MS Office then Office 2004 will set you back a couple of bills. If there are “PC only” programs you need to run you’ll need to pick up Virtual PC. If you’re lucky some of your old software will have both PC and Mac versions on the same disk. A few companies like Blizzard do this.

          The flip side is that Apple machines ship with an exceptional suite of multimedia software. If you’re an amature musician, shutterbug or director then you’ll find plenty of tools to feed your hobby. I’ve also found the Safari browser to be comparable to Firefox, complete with tabbed browsing and robust RSS support.

          DEVELOPMENT:

          If you truly want to get geeky you can. OS X is Unix under the hood, so the command line is not far away. Apache comes pre-installed, so LAMP (or would it be XAMP on a Mac?) development is readily available with a quick install of MySQL. Perl comes pre-installed as well. Apple also offers its XCode tools for free on its site. None of this is much help if you’re a .NET developer, but it is more cost effective. Since Apple is not a pure software company they have a vested interest in making it easy for developers to get started building Mac-specific programs that consumers will want to use. MS, on the other hand, is about selling software, including development tools. They have made it cheaper with the introduction of the “Express” product line, but Visual Studio and MSDN subscriptions can come with a pretty hefty price tag depending on what features you need. Ultimately what you use comes down to how much you want to spend and what audience(s) you want your software to reach.

    • #3098165

      but I like macs

      by nz_justice ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      why would I want to bash them

      • #3098103

        Then unbash them

        by jardinier ·

        In reply to but I like macs

        That is to say, praise them.

        But please avoid the cliches: “More user friendly” and “Fewer security breaches.”

        The myth of user friendliness began because they were the first to release a GUI. The myth has stuck, but has not necessarily been true since the time that IBM/Microsoft also produced computers and OSs with GUIs.

        While I have tried Windows and Macs and prefer Windows, I believe that a person’s preference is mostly based on which OS they became accustomed to initially.

        There have been security breaches discovered in the various editions of OS X. Security has not been a major issue with Macs because most virus writers and hackers prefer the more popular Windows as they can wreak much more havoc, simply because of the much greater proportion of people worldwide who use Windows.

        • #3098036

          The 5 year…

          by brichpmr9 ·

          In reply to Then unbash them

          history of Mac OSX is that there is no malware in the wild for that platform. XP presents a much different reality. I agree with your statements, however, the vast majority of Windows users are minimally competent on that OS and don’t have any extensive hands-on with current Macs to gain an educated preference.

        • #3098585

          Fair to say

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to The 5 year…

          that OSX is more secure out of the box than WinXpProSp2 is.

          [b]If you don’t agree, compare:[/b]
          AV software used on the two platformes.
          Spyware software used on the two platforms.
          Software firewalls used on the two platforms.
          All the people running away from using IE in droves.

          Ease of use though is NOT an advantage either holds anymore and is a real shot to anyones credibility to claim otherwise.

          Stability? BASED on *nix, OSx is bound to be more stable for the way processes are handled. XP has moved in that direction with XP, but didn’t go far enough.

        • #3097841

          Stability…….

          by ibanezoo ·

          In reply to Fair to say

          We have quite a few G4s and new G5s. Stability is a myth in our experience…. they crash or freeze up as much or more than the Xp boxes…

        • #3097748

          stability

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Stability…….

          question. Are the g’s running the same applications as the xp boxes or is one or the other doing more intensive tasks?

          how does the hardware specs match up between the g5’s and the xp boxes?

          how many of the crashes/freezes are caused by the user?

        • #3099523

          Also maturity….

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to stability

          The Macs had a reputation for stability based on the fact that the OS core didn’t change much from the first versions through System 9. The advantage of the Mac core was that it managed RAM much more elegantly that DOS or the DOS based Windows OS so it didn’t require the dramatic rewrites. OS changes just added more features.

          But OS X required a brand new OS kernel/core, and to keep backwards compatibilty with the old apps.

          So am I suprised that the OS is not as stable? Not at all – it may be as stable over time.

          James

        • #3094164

          Reply To: Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

          by ibanezoo ·

          In reply to stability

          The applications are the same (Adobe CS, Quark, various graphics applications). The hardware is obviously different… Some things are caused by users doing stupid things, I would say the majority are just crashing due to bad programming or whatever…

        • #3257461

          agreed…

          by techcontroller ·

          In reply to Stability…….

          We have a dual 2GHz G5 (with FCP4) for video editing and rendering… it crashes and freezes all the time (nearly once a session).. our old G4 (OS 9) was better.. but not great…

          “We have quite a few G4s and new G5s. Stability is a myth in our experience…. they crash or freeze up as much or more than the Xp boxes…”

      • #3098632

        Fine

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to but I like macs

        then tell us WHY you “like” them.

        In business and tech, it takes much more than your personal feelings of what you like or dislike.

        Sell us on a MAC, if you can. 😀

        • #3097860

          well here you go….

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to Fine

          I haven’t used a Mac in years by the way, not played with OSX.

          But here is why I liked Macs back then.

          Hardware – it worked. It was truly plug in play even back earlier than Windows 3.1.
          Plug in a video card and voila it works. Wanna run two video cards – no problems.

          SCSI – back in the day was faster and more flexible.

          OS – with a few exceptions, more stable. Drivers had to be written to a standard. No ability to write batch scripts though – had to program something.

          Easier to use. Yeah I am not buying the crap about it being the first GUI and the one you learn first. I saw Windows first (2.0). I prefer the Mac interface, and I work with lots of people who have PCs at work and Macs at home – even some OS junkies who long for OS/2. I sold lots of PCs and Macs in my time and the newbies who bought macs were up and running faster.

          Networking – Mac TCP was standardized earlier than PC/Winsock. Many universities were Mac centric cause Apple had great education discounts. Mosaic, which became Netscape was first done on a Mac – there is a reason. The company who made IE, before MS bought them, made their Mac version first.

          Macs had processors with better math than PC processors – so autocad, 3d apps etc worked better and faster.

          James

        • #3259090

          Most of this is still true…

          by tclnj ·

          In reply to well here you go….

          I started using Macs in 1992 because when my wife and I bought our first computer together she only had one stipulation… it had to be a Mac. Having worked with mainframes and PCs for as long as I could remember, the thought of a Mac was upsetting… but I caved. From that point forward, no computer came into our house (unless I was fixing it) other than a Mac. For all my complaining, I soon discovered that it was easier and more enjoyable to use a Mac.

          As an IT guy, I also enjoyed the fact that I could do stuff with the computer without it getting in the way. I’ve used everything from the 68030 to a G5, from System 7 to OS X 10.4.4, and I can safely say that the old mantra of “it just works” remains the same (at least once you get past the pre-10.2 versions of OS X… the early days os OS X were a little bumpy).

          Between the quality of the OS and the quality of the hardware (and the unique benefit of having control over both of these cannot be underestimated), the Mac remains a winning platform.

          While performance numbers have lagged at times (and at others have been far ahead of the PC world), the overall productivity for day-to-day tasks has always remained the platform’s winning quality.

          These days, I enjoy the fact that I can get all geeky and compile open source software for my Mac (if there isn’t already a pre-compiled binary available for OS X), or I can just pretend there’s no command line and just do my regular business tasks in MS Office without fear of spyware and viruses infecting my OS (just watch those Word macros).

          I can’t bash the OS, but I can bash Apple for being too tight-lipped, making Objective-C the language of choice for OS X while removing support for that language completely from WebObjects (what were you thinking?!), releasing/announcing new hardware without actually having an adequate supply, and not making the Cube more a more affordable machine when it was released (I had to wait and buy a refurb later).

        • #3258924

          Yep…

          by brichpmr9 ·

          In reply to Most of this is still true…

          Your experience with Macs pretty much mirrors mine. OSX stacks up very well with XP Pro (which I have to use 6-8 hrs a day), but doesn’t carry XP’s malware baggage. I’d like to see Apple get their Enterprise act together…

    • #3098568

      What would have made this more fun

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      if it would have been posted in the MAC section instead of the misc section. 😀

      (there IS a mac section, right?)

      • #3097894

        No MAC Section

        by bschmidt ·

        In reply to What would have made this more fun

        Of course not, this is TECH Republic, which instantly disqualifies Macs.
        (Just had to take that stab, I honestly don’t know if there is a Mac section or not)

        Really, though. I don’t know much about Macs other than having to support a few here at the office. Windows can do this, Macs can do this, blah blah blah. OK, assume functionality is equal between the two. Do I buy a $2500 Mac or a $400 PC? Remember, equal functionality….the fact that someone would spend 6x the price to do the same thing kind of makes you wonder if all the neurons are firing on cue in the first place. Not to mention (and again these are my own experiences) look at most of your Mac users. Macs make them “cool”. “Look at my new iMac, it’s just, like, so, wow. Give me a double latte and a low-fat bagel.” Seriously, I think there’s a reason 90% (unsupported figure) of graphic design is done on Macs, because Macs are for people that wear the black turtle-necks that are 2 sizes too small that have changed their names to Maurice and have the little tweaky moustache and use the little cigarette holder things at the art exhibits and drink their Skyy martinis. Mac = artist, PC = tech. Don’t be a hippie, JUST SAY NO to Macs!

        (OK the last part is just for the sake of bashing. The price comparison, though…seriously…who would pay that much without some added intrinsic value?)

        • #3097831

          Schmidt, please tell me which currency those prices are in

          by mjwx ·

          In reply to No MAC Section

          i want to know how much it is in AUD (for the moment i will assume that it is USD) after all this is an international forum.

          at curent exchange rates ($1 AU is roughly $0.75 US)
          so its a $500 PC and $3250 Mac (AUD)

        • #3109802

          Price / Specs

          by igner ·

          In reply to No MAC Section

          No offense, but I see the comparisons of $400 to $2500, have to
          say they’re crap. I’ve yet to see a $400 PC box compare favorably
          in spec to a $2500 Mac; it’s more like a $1200 PC to the $2500
          Mac. Still a big difference, mind you, but it’s a 1:2 cost ratio, not
          a 1:6. And honestly, a lot of those sub-$1000 PCs are often
          borderline bait and switch, intended to get people in the door
          for upsells.

          Best case scenario the $400 box is an entry-level machine, so
          compare to an entry level Mac…the cheapest of which is $499. Is
          the Mini worth the extra $100? Good question. But the price
          disparity is not what you make it out to be here.

    • #3097933

      printing…

      by ibanezoo ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      Have fun installing printers on OSX… We use higher end Fierys and other rip servers…. it takes like 10 minutes to install a single printer driver. Don’t even think about using a dash in a shared Windows printer name (or is it underscore? at any rate….) the Mac won’t even see it. Its LPR setup is time consuming for such a trivial thing. I absolutely hate the printing system of OSX. God forbid you get part of your print cache corrupted… you will be reinstalling the whole OS.

      Other than that I don’t mind Macs at all. They are a bit too artsy fartsy for my taste (interface and hardware), but that is just aesthetics.

    • #3098734

      Mac Attack

      by deejay54 ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      A few years ago, I started supporting a small office of 3 imacs and 1 PC. The imacs, you know the kind with all the guts inside a crt monitor. Well not a day went by where I didn’t find myself dealing with files changing their save location randomly, changing their file extentions, machines changing their video settings, try looking at a display the color of magenta for a day. Lost printer connections regularly and random freezes for no apparent reason. The list goes on and on. I finally got them all on PC’s and have since added 1 more. The only non human problems now are usually cured with a simple reboot. I feel like the Maytag repairman now.

      • #3098728

        Heresy I say ! Heresy !

        by jardinier ·

        In reply to Mac Attack

        Obviously you have been over-indulging in some hallucinogenic substance to imagine such an impossible scenario.]:)

        • #3098716

          I agree

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Heresy I say ! Heresy !

          This could not possibly be true! I have been repeatedly told that Macs don’t crash, are easier to use and are just more fun. They are more stylish and make you cool, and will have lots of people like you!

          Please don’t tell me that isn’t all true?

        • #3259559

          Yes they did.

          by deejay54 ·

          In reply to Heresy I say ! Heresy !

          I’m serious, 2 of the 3 really did change to a magenta hue. One of the macs went to a mac service center store 3 times and then to a private shop twice. They changed everything, some things more than once. Motherboard, display driver, high voltage rectifier, even a memory module. ( no clue as to why). I suggested the picture tube. I was told “no way could it be that”. It did no good It just made the machine become more unstable. If you tapped on the top of the case, they would clear up for a while, sometimes.
          No drugs involved. It really happend.

    • #3098708

      The essential Mac accessory

      by jardinier ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      My first Mac (purchased second-hand) was a Mac Plus.

      However it refused to eject a 3.5 in floppy disc. In desperation I tried to remove the disc with long-nosed pliers and of course destroyed the floppy drive.

      So I rang my Mac friend to ask him about this, and he advised me to straighten out a paper clip and insert it in the tiny hole underneath the floppy drive.

      Next time I encountered this problem (on a different machine as I had killed the original one) I found that it successfuly ejected the floppy disc.

      But THEN I acquired an instruction manual for a Mac and to my amazement, there it was in black-and-white — “straighten out a paper clip to manually eject a floppy disc.”

      Wow ! I mean how sophisticated can you get? Could they not at least have supplied an appropriate device with the computer?

      Or perhaps actually have a button to press like EVERY PC since the 3.5 in floppy was first introduced?

      Anyhow to the best of my knowledge the paper-clip was an essential accessory for every model until the iMac was released, which did not have a floppy drive, but a single CD drive which also had a CD write capacity.

      • #3259703

        and the funny thing about that

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to The essential Mac accessory

        is the mac-a-holics probably don’t even see anything wrong with that, because it was always like that.

        button? we don’t need no stinken’ button! 😀

        • #3259691

          There are…

          by brichpmr9 ·

          In reply to and the funny thing about that

          a surprising number of Windows users I see each day who are marginally illiterate about the right mouse button and contextual menus. They are no more computer literate than those stereotypical one-button-crippled ‘mac-a-holics.’ I’m happy that Apple got rid of floppies about 8 years ago….haven’t found the need for one any time this century 🙂

        • #3259633

          missing the point

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to There are…

          as your taking this waaaaay too seriously. 🙂

          I took a class before for Acrobat and it was in a mac room. I could not get used to being so limited by this “easy to us” system. It drove me nuts.

          Since then, it was just one more thing to poke fun at mac users about. nothing more, nothing less.

          That was the whole spirit of this discussion, but some just take everything too seriously.

        • #3259622

          Not too Serious…

          by brichpmr9 ·

          In reply to missing the point

          I’m just pointing out that most of the Win-only users I know are, if anything, less computer literate than those Mac users. If you get familiar with OSX, you find that it can be ridiculously simple or a geek’s paradise, or something in between…you have the choice. I’ve customized the hell out of my personal Mac set-up, which simply demonstrates that no one is ‘limited’ by a current Mac…only by their own level of knowledge and/or interest.

        • #3260105

          The point is….

          by jamesrl ·

          In reply to and the funny thing about that

          To eject a Mac floppy, you use the mouse.

          You only need the paper clip if you have a floppy that is stuck. Apple didn’t plan for floppies to break down – don’t forget they were the first to use the new 3.5″ floppies. Others learned from that experience.

          James

      • #3259670

        It’s also the “essential” PC accessory

        by lodai ·

        In reply to The essential Mac accessory

        The fabled paper clip is used quite a bit here because I frequently forget to eject the CD out of a laptop drive prior to sending it out with a user. So rather than powering the laptop back up and ejecting the cd, then powering off the laptop, I use the secret weapon of all Tech’s… the paperclip!

        Oh, and here’s another great thing about the OSX system…. You can reset ANYONE’s password with a copy (not just the original) of the OSX install disk. Just boot the system with the OSX cd and you can change any user password and even the Administrator password. The clincher is that if you are running a MAC with OSX 10.4 (Tiger) and you have any previous OSX OS disk, you can still change the password. So beware of users that like to have access to the original system CD’s.

        • #3259096

          Mac passwords

          by jardinier ·

          In reply to It’s also the “essential” PC accessory

          I purchased a Power G3 second-hand simply because it had OS X installed and I wanted to learn about the OS.

          When I got it home and set up, I found that I couldn’t access the thing without a password.

          So I rang the guy who sold it to me to ask for the password and he said he had forgotten, and gave me a few suggestions — none of which worked.

          So I had to purchase a brand new copy of OS 10.2 just to use the damn thing. As the computer has never worked satisfactorily — it will only boot up if you leave it for about a week, and then usually only in 640 X 480 resolution — I reckon the guy knew it was a dud and I was the sucker who bought it.

          Somewhere along the line in a computer magazine (or other source, I forget) a keyboard combination was given which would bypass the password. Unfortunately I did not make a record of this.

    • #3107237

      finally admitting intel’s better..

      by techniquephreak ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      Anyone else think its just hilarious that Mac-a-holics finally have to admit that Intel is a better chip? After years of claiming superiority in their chintzy ad campaigns, they are finally admitting that their systems are 4 x faster with an Intel chip. Lovely. Funny thing is, most Mac freaks are going to try and say this means ‘4 x faster’ than a PC, bunch of ignorant ingrates.

      And isn’t “Mac Geek” an oxymoron?

      • #3094215

        They didn’t go for AMD

        by snarfiorix ·

        In reply to finally admitting intel’s better..

        Too bad, now that would have made me go out and buy one!

        • #3094043

          I would assume you could use AMD, no?

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to They didn’t go for AMD

          The kernel isn’t made SPECIFICALLY for ONLY Intel processors.

          Am I wrong?

      • #3110151

        Sheez

        by wlbowers ·

        In reply to finally admitting intel’s better..

        The reason that Mac is going to the Intel processor is because
        people like you can’t fathom the fact that a RISC processor
        running 2.5 gig is faster in applications than a CISC processor
        running 4 gig.

        You look at a number and get tunnel vision.

        I have a 2.5 gig Mac that is crapping all over a 2800+ AMD
        Athlon. Using the same programs doing the same operations.

        Photoshop doing filtering and processing of a 1200 dpi photo.

        Lee

        • #3110103

          yeah, right….

          by snarfiorix ·

          In reply to Sheez

          You argument by picking a single operation with a single app and throw in tunnel vision?

          Eat my SQL 2005 on a AMD Athlon 64 FX processor
          Intel hypertreading only slows it down….

          And if you want to go server based…eat my AMD Opteron

    • #3109932

      Mac OS & Outlook Web Access

      by dncbrady ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      I can confirm the aforementioned ‘password’ issue – but
      it’s not the OS. We had no problem getting to our
      Outlook Web Access via Apple’s Safari browser until
      the launch of Tiger (10.4) with Safari 2.0 – THAT’s when
      the password problem popped up.
      We’ve even had an Apple engineer take a look at it. I
      know there are others out there who have the problem –
      but only see it as another Mac annoyance. Some folks
      have ‘gotten around it’ by using FireFox – but that
      doesn’t FIX THE PROBLEM! Apple may not be paying
      attention because not enough people are screaming
      about it. We would LIKE to use Internet Explorer for
      Mac, but Microsoft says it will no longer support the
      browser in 10.4 (prompting us to succumb to Safari)
      when we updated our machines to Tiger. BTW – buying
      additional software is out of the question for an urban
      school district. Mr. Jobs, if you are listening .. fix the
      problem. Thanks for the soapbox.

    • #3109928

      PC vs MAC = VHS vs Beta

      by sbillings ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      Look people, It’s very simple. If you look at the entire “computer” universe broken down as a pie chart, MACs make up just a very small wedge of that pie. The MAC architecture and OS may be superior to the PC but the fact is most of the world uses PCs. Steve Jobs unwillingness to license the architecture back in the 80?s is the reason why the PC is the dominant form of computer used today. It’s very similar to what Sony did with the Betamax in the 80’s. Beta was superior to VHS but they had a “If you want Beta then you gotta’ buy it from us” attitude. So, with every TV, toaster and electronic doo-dad company making VHS VCRs, the inferior VHS format won. I’m in IT support for a large medical practice in Portland Maine and I don’t work on MACs at all. I’ve spent a total of 1 hour on a MAC in the last five years. They’re just not used that much in the medical field. I will say one thing though— MAC users sure are passionate about their MACs

      • #3109899

        It just runs

        by dlthompson471 ·

        In reply to PC vs MAC = VHS vs Beta

        I am an IT professional with over 35 years in the business. I was
        an early adopter of personal computing (kaypro, TRS-80,
        Commodore 64), I have used Windows at Work and at home for
        years. Two years ago I decided to move to a Mac for my home
        machine becuase I was tired of dealing with the ongoing
        problems I was having with viruses etc on Windows.

        My Mac has been online 24/7 (broadband) for two years with no
        problems whatsoever. I never power it down but do reboot
        occasionally after applying software updates. In my opinion, this
        is how a consumer appliance should work.

        I’m not worried about upgrading it. I will use it until it breaks
        (my guess it will take many years for that to happen). At that
        point I will buy a new appliance and just keep on chugging.

        Bottom line, I have to deal with the frustration of working on a
        Windows PC at work, I don’t want to bring it home with me.

        • #3094166

          Reply To: Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

          by ibanezoo ·

          In reply to It just runs

          …but how much do you actually use it? Our Macs have someone in front of them nearly 24/7 (yes, really… we never close) and they are every bit as frustrating as a PC and in some instances more so (installing printer drivers comes to mind…). They are generally being used for image editing, design, layout, and printing… they get ALOT of use around here.

        • #3093977

          Standard home use

          by dlthompson471 ·

          In reply to Reply To: Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

          I use it for standard home use, Word Processing, Spread sheets,
          Photo and Music storage, hosting a personal web site, I also
          have MySQL and Postgres running on it for personal education of
          those two products. About the only other thing I use it for is
          streaming photos and music to my TV through my Tivo box.

          I do understand your frustration with printer drivers. Especially
          in the early going with OS X. I don’t have to deal with that
          because I found a printer that works well with it (Canon IP4000).

      • #3110150

        Passionate Yea

        by wlbowers ·

        In reply to PC vs MAC = VHS vs Beta

        It’s like riding a Harley. If you can ever afford one you will never
        go back.

        Mac user since 1988

        I work on PC’s.

        Lee

    • #3109842

      Windows

      by krazykyngekorny ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      Actually, Windows is the best operating system, IMO. The problem lies not with the OS, but with hot-doggers at MS who 1) put in a lot of useless bells and whistles that no one ever uses, just to show off their “programming skils, 2) all those unnecessary updates so Gates can get more money and 3) all the doors Gates and company put in so they can tamper with your computer. All those “Gates gates” make it easy for virus writers to obtain entry to your system.

      All in all, Gates, and his hand picked “engineers” are the problem with Windows.

      • #3109712

        Windows…. oh broken windows

        by ricardol_limon ·

        In reply to Windows

        IMO Window WAS the best operating system back in the days where the gui wasnt a factor to migrate to the next version or distro. I must admit that i was hooked on ms-dos and i got seduced by the click-click culture and before i knew it i had to upgrade almost every year due to security problems and of course to stay current in this cruel industry. Now this days im a hardcore Linux user and is a fact that you must choose an OS according to the necesitys of each individual end user. In my case im a system developer/architect where the main development languages are C and Java and theres nothing easier to test and monitor an app that in linux giving me full control to terminate a process without depending in a gui app that it might not work or better even will react when you are already going for cold reset on your machine and on the other hand you just detect the process id number and tell it to die in one of many ways your heart might desire.

        • #3093975

          Yes, but

          by krazykyngekorny ·

          In reply to Windows…. oh broken windows

          I must agree about Linux, BUT…at the moment it is much more difficult to get the installation set up for easy operation- not easy enough for a non nerd. IOW, it needs mor refinement to be ready to compete with Gates.

          OSx is already there- Linux isn’t.

    • #3109835

      Hardware design of Macs

      by shanaza ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      With the mac operating system, you also get the proprietary hardware … so I don’t believe this is entirely off topic.

      Ever open a powerbook G4 and try to replace a part? Compare that exercise to replacing a part in any non-mac laptop — it’s analogous to brain surgery (mac) vs. changing your tire (pc). Mac laptops are so fragile that one could destroy it with the slightest misstep; however, one must be pretty ham-handed to screw up a pc laptop.

      Try changing something as simple as a dc-in on a G4 without trashing it. The mac genius’ recommend a shell replacement for $1000; all for a $60 part. Mac’s are expensive (but look great) and if you ever need work done, you might as well buy a new one if it’s out of warranty. For the same money, you can buy a high-end pc laptop, not worry about warranties, and still have $$ left over.

      Bottom line: nice if you have $$ to blow and want something that looks cool.

    • #3094233

      IBM – I should have bought a Mac!!!!!!!!

      by wjacomb ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      I am a Mac / PC Support Specialist in Australia

      1. The Mac OS is superior to Windows in every way and form –
      always has been.

      2. Windows DLL goes south – re do windows if you want it right
      – and thats not two hours thats more like 10, cause you have to
      redo programmes users data e.g. reimport into Outlook etc,
      Install Windows Updates

      3. OS 9 / X equivalent goes south – just do a custom install a
      replace the defective part. 30 minutes at worst
      4. Its a lot tougher to create viruses for Mac than Windows – I
      have seen only one mac infected in 3 years – PC’s every day.

      I shouldn’t complain PC Viruses make me good money but
      they are certainly a waste of the clients.

      4. The Macintosh HD drivers have built in fail safes which make
      the storage of data more robust.

      5. Have you worked on a G4 or G5 case – they are a breeze
      although I will admit that an Emac or Imac can be painful

      6. Okay replacing components means avoiding Apple when they
      can which is why real Apple Techs actually know what PC
      Components they can use and where to source second hand.

      I don’t mind valid criticsim of Macs (or rather Apple) but your
      remarks indicate that you should tells us what prescription / non
      prescription drugs you are on – it is only fair to the rest of us.

      Oh yes, before I forget your remark about passwords – look up
      and use key chain – users generally discover it for themselves by
      using the online help function – and you claim to be a Mac Tech?

      • #3094008

        Mac’s do not support domain level authentication

        by mjwx ·

        In reply to IBM – I should have bought a Mac!!!!!!!!

        nor does the infernal keychain. this gives another password to the users that complain about needing one.

        as for stability a properly configured operating system should remain stable for some time windows, mac or otherwise.

        P.S. i need to remember atleast 4 passwords off the top of my head at any given time, plus 5 more which arent as important and a further 5 which i have written down because i just cant remember 14 passwords at once when most of them change every 6 weeks. Mac users complain about one.

    • #3094126

      Mac OSX

      by davin123 ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      I have an iMac G5 and an iBook G4, they are linked by Airport with no problem ( I never thought I would say this! ) It just took Apple support 3 days of continuous phone support to make it so. Hurrah for support.
      The system freezes about once a month, I have reinstalled the system 4 times now and have lost all data on both Macs at once when I renamed folders, eg from “Documents” to “Documents iBook” so I knew which is which. The keyboard is upsetting as there is no deleting key ( delete does backspace )
      Software is buggy, Microsoft Office for Mac loses all Excel comments when saving and transferring from a PC. I confess I use a PC for important stuff backups, it is kept clean with minimal software. Virtual PC works usually except for some installer programs like for Nastran, I use it for the important stuff with a Maxtor external 300Gig drive.
      Dealing with files is a pain, Finder doesn’t find what I want, there is no real simple Paint Shop Pro equivalent or Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, etc. I want to do stuff not solve puzzles..
      All in all I will pursue this Mac business as I have an eternity of years, from a Vic 20 to the first IBM PC and on, to grumble about Microsoft and a steady procession of blue screens to give me high blood pressure. I must confess that I am becoming more fond of Microsoft nowadays though.
      To end on a good note, the phone support from both is extremely good, even in the Antipodes. The hardware warranty seems to be problematic though from what I have read and the number of unofficial Apple retailers is growing. Also annoying that my iMac G5 hardware has been superceded twice now when it is only 6 months old.

    • #3094085

      Passwords and More

      by wlbowers ·

      In reply to Tired of Window’s Bashing, try Mac Bashing

      Good grief bubba, turn on key chain.

      And it’s not the Mac’s fault you have problems getting it on a
      windows domain. What did you think that Bill was gonna make it
      easy for you.

      I have 7 computers in my home alone, not including my
      business. 4 are Macs, 2 are PC and 1 is an ipaq.

      I have reloaded both of the PC’s at least 3 times in the last year
      out of complete necessity. And dang dud I’m a consulant. I fix
      these things for a living.

      I haven’t touched the Macs since they were installed. the iMacs
      are over 3 years old.

      And dang dude where are you buying your motherboards. I can
      get you a 1.8gig G5 CPU for $1449.00.

      Motherboards are just as reasonable.

      Bash Apple. Not gonna happen here.

      Lee

      • #3094006

        for some strange reason

        by mjwx ·

        In reply to Passwords and More

        1. the keychain still doesnt fix the problem 2. it only remembers the first password and doesnt change it every 6 weeks.

        this is a corperate enviroment as much as i would appreciate help on this issue home networks are different. so this is for the record MAC’S DO NOT SUPPORT DOMAIN LEVEL AUTHENTICATION.

        P.S. i cant authenticate against a print server (so much for getting around the driver issue).

        P.P.S. it’s been a long day so i apolpgise for my rudeness.

        • #3093937

          DLA

          by wlbowers ·

          In reply to for some strange reason

          This is what Microsoft did.
          http://www.microsoft.com/technet/itsolutions/msit/security/
          ipsecdomisolwp.mspx

        • #3093935

          appriciate the reply

          by mjwx ·

          In reply to DLA

          But first my complaint was not that we can?t get Mac?s onto the domain (which is a SBS 2003 domain (before 10.4 Mac’s had a problem with .local but it?s still not perfect)) but the users need to enter a password every time they open their mail/browser/access file server all of which they can do. They just need to enter a password each and every time (I?ve already explained that the keychain is useless).

          Apart from a few specific Microsoft issues (like sharing colanders in exchange) Mac?s can everything they need to (mail/internet/storage). But it is difficult for both the user and the admin (me) because Mac?s have trouble cooperating with the domain. a good example of this is they cant authenticate against the print server (we have one printer running AppleTalk).

          A few days ago Office for Mac started having a problem with the fonts (corrupted or cant access) I cant get to the machine in question right now to tell you the exact error message.

          My problem in short (if you?ve gotten this far i should probably thank you for patience) is that as the techie in charge of the Mac?s I spend more time (per machine) giving basic functionality to a Mac (in a corporate environment) than fixing serious problems on XP machines.

          Probably TR’s fault but the URL was half cut off. Probably what that ://tinyurl/ thing is meant to fix. someone’s gonna have to tell me how to do that.

        • #3258419

          URL

          by wlbowers ·

          In reply to appriciate the reply

          Sorry I had a brain fart. I know about tiny url.

          http://tinyurl.com/buk9q

          Description of what Microsoft did for Non Macs. Might be to rich
          for ya’ll though.

          We set an online laser and dedicated it to the macs. They were
          all in the graphics dept.

          Lee

        • #3258126

          Check This Out…

          by brichpmr9 ·

          In reply to URL

      • #3108562

        Reloading Windows

        by krazykyngekorny ·

        In reply to Passwords and More

        If you are running Win2K or XP, there is a caveat.

        Microsoft says they will run on FAT32. Don’t you believe it.

        Switch to NTFS and knock out well over two thirds of the problems. Gates engineers won’t tell you that, but experience will.

Viewing 19 reply threads