General discussion

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #2249860

    Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

    Locked

    by –loki– ·

    I recently acquired a student…. He wants to learn how to build/repair computers, mainly as a hobby, but if he’s any good I may use him in my business…

    So he came over the other day, and had a box of parts, and I showed him about jumpers and pin-1 for cables and such, and how to basically fit parts together… simple stuff….

    Now when I was learning this stuff, I taught myself, and I pretty much soak things up like a sponge, and don’t remember usually HOW I learned something, just that I know it….

    I realize that most people don’t learn that way… lol… Sooooo… I need a lesson plan of some sort… What order to teach things in… what are the little things that get overlooked? I have a habit of just assuming that things are obvious, or that people should just KNOW things… (I’m probably not the best teacher for that reason… lol)

    So I guess what I’d like to know is….

    What are the things that you would teach someone that you think are important to being a good computer builder/tech? Everything from hardware to software is what I want to teach this fella… So I need help putting my knowledge in some sort of logical order… lol

All Comments

  • Author
    Replies
    • #3222027

      Personally…..

      by jamesrl ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      I’ve never trained someone from scratch, I’ve always had people with some exposure.

      I would start with installing the OS. Build a PC for them, and have them first install the OS through the defaults, then do it again with the custom – have them play with some of the custom installs.

      Once they can install the OS without too many thoughts, have them build the basic PC – put the MB in the case, install the base components, then boot it up, format, install the OS.

      Then have them add the often additional components – video card, sound card, ethernet card etc. Install the HW, then configure it in the OS, one by one.

      Once they have the basic box stuff, then you can move to networking.

      James

      • #3220941

        First thing?

        by cg it ·

        In reply to Personally…..

        I’d tell the guy or gal to go buy Scott Muellers upgrading and repairs PCs as a reference book. Start reading. If they could afford it get some of the back editions. Knowing the boot sequence of POST, what a MBR is and how it’s processed, how board layout is, what really is a AGP, PCI buss, PCI Express [meaning how they work.

        Second, I’d give him a PC completely built and with an O/S and tell him to take it apart and rebuild it including formating the HD and reinstalling the O/S. To the level it was before he/she tore it down.

        I think I would try to stress documentation and how important it is even if it’s a time killer.

        • #3219989

          Assess the newbie…

          by rkg ·

          In reply to First thing?

          Find out what overall skills they have, and use those to build on new abilities.
          Start with an older but complete computer, and have tehm swap out the video card. Make certain they understand the component, what it brings to the computer. check technique; does the newbie need to focus on not damaging hardware when making the swaps?
          Then memory, then replacing the hard drive.
          Each step have the newbie see what difference the change has made on the system. From a 4 MB graphics system with 128 MB RAM and a 20 MB HD that barely runs windows, they have created a much faster computer, and they see the differences.

      • #3217895

        Most important and Most overlooked

        by itsa3419 ·

        In reply to Personally…..

        Teach him the most overlooked and most important thing he can learn.
        BEFORE making even the slightest changes MAKE A BACKUP!!!!
        How many times have technicians done some simple thing that should be a no brainer and had it go wrong only to find no backups?
        Our plan at SystemBytes is simple, before you even start the repairs, boot to a live linux cd and MAKE A HD IMAGE!! You are now protected from data loss and many hours of stress. You are more relaxed and can think more clearly knowing you can always recover any data or settings you lose.

    • #3220925

      First off, use a grounded wrist strap

      by mjd420nova ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      Start off with a fully functioning system, teach them how to listen to the different sounds and watch the lights. Find a good comprehensive list of the beep codes and the diagnostic codes from the bios ( 100-CPU 200-memory 300-keyboard ETC) then move onto what’s needed to make a bootable disk, partitioning hard drives, loading the OS and then drivers for appropriate hardware. Then work into dip switches-jumper bergs and last of all don’t forget changing the CMOS battery and how to clear CMOS and password access work arounds.

      • #3220924

        I always work with an anti-static strap-on

        by why me worry? ·

        In reply to First off, use a grounded wrist strap

        strap it on..baby and do your magic

        I was dieing to say that…LOL

        • #3220910

          lol

          by cg it ·

          In reply to I always work with an anti-static strap-on

          ROFL LMAO

          don’t drop the soap!

        • #3220722

          Hehehehe

          by –loki– ·

          In reply to I always work with an anti-static strap-on

          Kinky…… lol…. Oh, wait.. You didn’t mean THAT strap-on… Oh well… *puts her toys away*

          lol… Thanks! I needed to lighten up a bit today… lol

        • #3220677

          oh boy!

          by cg it ·

          In reply to Hehehehe

          ROFL LMAO

        • #3222400

          Play

          by Anonymous ·

          In reply to Hehehehe

          I got my start in PC’s with a game called Cranston Manor, on an Apple IIe donated to our school. Spent hours trying to find the funny commands unusual commands would give. (ie “Pray -> Praying won’t help you”….

          I then recieved my first PC (Timex Sinclair ZX81 as a present for my birhtday the year following. I was too poor to buy any games, so I started writing my own. Over time, moved to a Commodore128, and built a speech processor for it ($20 in radio shack parts),along with writing a few games.

          My point? Find a couple fun projects which meet some of your student’s interests. Particularly projects where there is room to “hack”. Those are a great way to help the individual develop an understanding of the fundamentals – an understanding not just of how, but also why.

        • #3222389

          Whoops

          by Anonymous ·

          In reply to Play

          Probably should have paid closer attention to what thread I was posting on with a subject like “Play”.

        • #3220040

          Uh….

          by justinsvalois ·

          In reply to Play

          Please stay on topic here,
          We were talking about toys… 🙂

      • #3220723

        Now see… I would have forgotten to tell him….

        by –loki– ·

        In reply to First off, use a grounded wrist strap

        about the beep codes… lol…. One of those things that I always listen for when trying to boot a board, but not one of the things I would have remembered to actually MENTION to someone…. THANKS!!!

        • #3219679

          There are a million little things

          by mjd420nova ·

          In reply to Now see… I would have forgotten to tell him….

          I didn’t mean it to sound like that. Useing you ears is very important too. Sometimes I can locate the fault just by listening. Most often it’s not what you hear, but what you don’t hear that can lead you in the right direction. A basic primer in the use of a good voltmeter is also important, as they can be used to confirm a power supply fdailure, and even shorts can be tracked to the culprit if it’s digital. The eyeball is also important, but sometimes a good magnifing glass is called for.

    • #3219637

      If you’re looking for a full up training curriculum

      by nicknielsen ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      Thomsen Course Technology has several resources (http://tinyurl.com/y3gw66), but they are rather pricey.

      The best other source is probably the current edition of Scott Mueller’s [i]Upgrading and Repairing PCs[/i]. If you also can get a copy of the Tenth Anniversary Edition, you will pretty much have all the information you need from PC Day One. Start him reading.

      • #3219615

        Have the book… 2 of them actually… lol

        by –loki– ·

        In reply to If you’re looking for a full up training curriculum

        One of them is almost a pocket sized version… They’ve been sitting in my bookshelf getting dusty…. Guess it’s time to bring them back out, huh?

        • #3222730

          I have three different editions going back to the 3rd

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Have the book… 2 of them actually… lol

          Together they eat almost a foot of bookshelf, so I use them primarily for reference at the end of the day. They are simply too big to carry around with me.

          I do have a condensed reference (Pocket PC) that I carry with me for on-site use. It contains general PC information, BIOS configurations, beep codes, configuration data and so on. It’s a couple of years old, but I haven’t needed to update it yet.

    • #3219636

      break it down and focus

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      what will be the primary skill needed, hardware, OS, software?

      A basic understanding of all is needed, but then focus on the ONE that is the most important.

      Too many times I see people that know a little about everything, but not a lot of any one thing. They can get by in the day to day, but when there is a real problem, they don’t have the abiltiy to resolve it.

      Also stress to be methodical. Always make one change at a time until the problem is solved or you will have no idea which change fixed your problem.

      Relaxing is important too. It drives my co-workers nuts becaues they will be all frantic over something for a while trying to get something going. I go back to my office, turn on the tunes, grab my coffee and “just sit there” or “browse the web”. What they don’t relize is I am doing that “thinking” thing, or I am looking on the web for people that have had the same type of problem. It usually doesn’t take me long to get the answer.

      When you rush, you make mistakes. Dumb mistakes.

      • #3219614

        Too true…

        by –loki– ·

        In reply to break it down and focus

        I used to butt heads with the owner when I managed a puter shop some years back, because I’d stick the “problem” cases on the back burner while I would get the easy/fast fixes out of the way, regardless of which one came in the shop first… He never could quite grasp that I WAS working on the “problem” ones too.. but I was trying to think about possible solutions that hadn’t been tried yet, rather than waste time staring and poking at it, when other things could be accomplished in the meantime… lol…

        • #3220056

          “No Customers Allowed in the Shop”

          by graham.moore ·

          In reply to Too true…

          End users(customers) don’t see what is going on in your head as you work and problem solve. They think you’re dogging it, while in fact you are thinking about what your next steps are. This is the real reason customers aren’t allowed into shop areas at auto garages and most other areas. It also holds true for even the most basic vetrinary and human surgical procedures. Some managers and business owners need to learn this approach as well.
          Sorry to veer off topic, but I think it also applies to helping students learn. Let them think and make mistakes without looking over their shoulder and applying performance pressure.

        • #3137985

          No Reason to Hide

          by jkowolf ·

          In reply to “No Customers Allowed in the Shop”

          I’ve been invited into shops and supervise most auto repairs unless I know they will take too long. Much of my programming is with managers/end user sitting next to me to provide instant feedback. If I think something will need some extensive code or I need to think/plan, I tell them to take a break. Usually they have something else to do.

          My fees are based on the value of my solution to the customer and not how much time I take.

          Get the kid close to customers; they’ll be paying his salary.

      • #3219586

        Sounds familiar

        by nicknielsen ·

        In reply to break it down and focus

        [i]…turn on the tunes, grab my coffee and “just sit there”…[/i]

        If you’re the tech in question, there is nothing quite like watching the end user bouncing off the walls while you examine the problem with a cup of coffee in your hand. 😀

        If it’s a new problem to me, I’ve been known to take a smoke break and consult the manual before going to work. That really sets them off! “D*mn it, I can’t do %$#*(@ and you’re sitting out here smoking and drinking coffee! :^0

        • #3219557

          “Wish I could sit around reading all day”

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Sounds familiar

          I was reading a book on shell scripts when a (L)user made that comment. I handed them the book and asked them to explain it to me.

          One look at the page I was reading and they got an almost sick look on their face. They decided that just MAYBE I was not reading for pleasure?

          B-)

          Before I became the Net Admin, the mail server went down. Not my job, no one asked me what I thought, and no one wanted to hear what I had to say. No problem. (the then admin was a very insecure woman that was afraid that I was trying to take her job or something)

          The EX’s aunt had JUST died the day before, so I had to leave for the showing. I was out at noon.

          The next day they had a consultant in ($1000 a day) looking into the problem. I had the funeral so I was out early again.

          The next day, the consultant didn’t even bother to come back because he had no clue, and the server was still down.

          I wrote down the error codes on the console, went back to my office and relaxed. litterally 30 minutes later I had the server working again. Was pretty simple too. The young pup that did most of the admin work FOR the admin that didn’t know how, had made a symbolic link to it’s self. circular loop that took the system down. Killed the sym link and the server took off. Was kind of funny actually. He of course TRIED to deny that is what happened, but of course I had print outs of the log files…… log files don’t lie. 😀

      • #3276351

        The man speaks wisdom

        by dm3haggitt ·

        In reply to break it down and focus

        jdclyde knows what he is saying. He is right. Unfortunately,
        coworkers and bosses sometimes fail to adapt the consistant
        and timely success of the methodical and perfer the caos of
        headless chickens whose work often has to be redone. At
        least this is what I have found. I have learned that if you find
        yourself in this situation do your thing, but don’t try to
        change others.

        • #3276341

          :8}

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to The man speaks wisdom

          and a rule of thumb, you have to allow other people to be wrong. No one likes a “know-it-all” that steps on everyone else.

          A lesson learned the hard way….

          state your case, and then let it go. In a year when it doesn’t work, everyone will know as it gets changed back to what you had said in the first place. Let time prove you right.

          thanks dm3

        • #3216132

          I hope to apply this lesson…

          by dm3haggitt ·

          In reply to :8}

          I am learning this lesson the hard way… First at work, now in my marriage. I hope I am starting to catch on. A friend recently gave me this advice; “Don’t right that wrong simply for the sake of righting a wrong.” And once again thank you jdclyde for your help and advice.

    • #3219584

      A Handy A+ Manual

      by tig2 ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      The condensed version is best- it will present the information in logical order and help to reinforce it while not actively in the lab environment.

      There are a number of good A+ manuals out there- I like the “Passport” series for well condensed information.

      Another important thing to keep in mind are the old tricks that the new kids don’t seem to understand- like the sensibility of keeping a paperclip handy…

      • #3222574

        good one

        by vtassone ·

        In reply to A Handy A+ Manual

        Amen to the paper clip…… A set of bamboo chop sticks is nice also. They are great for the hard to reach RAM tabs.

        • #3222503

          Natural hair blush brush

          by tig2 ·

          In reply to good one

          Don’t leave home without it! I have two in my bag at all times- great for cleaning out the dust rhinos that develop in the case.

          Alcohol and cotton swabs is another good one. And “Tweak”.

        • #3222383

          chopsticks

          by jay_el_72 ·

          In reply to good one

          That is funny, I thought I was the only one that did that. Things like paperclips, chopsticks and rubber bands are tricks that you won’t find in mainstream tech books but come from experience.
          Tell them about Google and techrepublic too. Most things they will come across can be googled now.

      • #3222443

        Books are where to start

        by techmichelle ·

        In reply to A Handy A+ Manual

        I don’t know about everyone else but it seems like I am always reading a book or reading articles to stay up to date.

        The books follow a logical order, so you can say the person knows this after reading this book, okay a few oops as a person translates book to doing is normal.

        Michelle

    • #3219558

      Start with DOS

      by rednksweetpea ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      That way you can teach him the basics of DOS, than work up to Windows, than who knows after that, he may start teaching you what he learned. Just a thought LOL

    • #3222726

      an important one..

      by jaqui ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      pound it into their head that you do NOT need to change bios settings every time.

      I recently had someone change a cdr for a dvdrw on a system, which failed completely.
      they had changed the bios settings and created an irq conflict.

      which really means:
      do as little as possible to get the system running, tune it later if needed.

      A lot of people think they have to adjust pins and bios settings for every hardware change, or even os change. the default bios with plug ‘n pray options enabled can, now, usually get it right, so “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” needs to be retaught to a lot of people.

      • #3222707

        It used to be horrible

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to an important one..

        If you had a piece of hardware and the(l)user didn’t think they needed to keep the books that came with them. Sure, just TRY to guess what the proper pin settings are suppose to be… :0

        I would not deal with it if they didn’t have the manual. Doesn’t work, guess you get to buy a new one.

        • #3222620

          yup

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to It used to be horrible

          though there are still times I will not tough something unless they have the original manual and and software that came with the device.

          it makes it so much easier to make sure you are loading the right device drivers into the kernel when you have the original documentation.

      • #3222693

        Could be worse

        by nicknielsen ·

        In reply to an important one..

        I once worked with a tech whose first troubleshooting step was to flash the BIOS without first checking anything else (all PCs there were the same model IBM). Every time he walked up to a machine, he’d pop in his handy dandy BIOS floppy and reboot.

        Then one day, he popped his IBM 450-DX2 BIOS floppy into a brand new IBM 6282… 🙁

        After IBM declared the warranty voided, he was charged for a whole new machine. :^0

        • #3222619

          exactly.

          by jaqui ·

          In reply to Could be worse

          any good tech will do the minimum needed to get the system working again.
          solving the root cause is secondary, if it’s not obvious by what needed to be done to get it back up.

          This is a point that needs to be made to new techs, simply to save everyone the headaches of fatal mistakes.

        • #3222604

          It may be a failing of youth

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to exactly.

          Or just an individual personal issue, but some people just can’t seem to get the idea:

          Just because you [u]can[/u] do it doesn’t mean you [u]should[/u] do it.

    • #3222708

      Always start with the basics

      by jjvolk ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      Troubleshooting a PC starts with the basics. He will need to read and study a good A+ training book. That will teach all the basics of computer components. As for repair the usual components that are the problem are: Hard Drive (bad sectors), Memory (Memtest 86 is good to check), Power Supply (always have a reliable replacement to test with). I have a POST card. This is essential for trying to diagnose a defective motherboard or CPU or Power Supply.
      As to building a computer set a procedure. What parts get put into the case first and in a certain order. Be methodical, and don’t let him deviate from the procedure. That way he can build systems consistantly and speed will come with repetition.
      Usually we build CPU and Memory on motherboard and run it on the bench or desktop before installing it into the case. Don’t assume it will work. It may not. We have had defective motherboards right out of the box! Also defective CPU’s and memory that were brand new. Once the board runs on the table then it can be placed into the case using the standoffs. Then comes the hard drives, cd or dvd drives. then cards and cables and power added last. It should all work if the board ran on the table to begin with.
      During OS install sometimes defective parts show up like Video or CD/DVD drives (the setup reports unable to copy/find/certain files). Also defective media (CD’s or DVD’s) sometimes show up, but not too often. Hard drives usually show to be defective during this time also. If the OS installs properly and all drivers and devices work, let it run about 24 hours and see if still works (no lock ups or resets) before putting it into everyday use.
      I have been in the PC repair/construction business for about 18 years. I have A+ and Network+ certifications. The main requirement of an IT job is to LOVE WHAT YOU DO!

    • #3222616

      Earthing Strap

      by bbwalters ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      When I worked with Motorola we had a course, ‘Back to Basics’ The guy showed us the importance of the earth strap by displaying microscopic pictures of the internals of CPU’s that had been ‘Zapped’ The holes had to be seen to be believed. After that I never worked without an earth strap. We were also told anyone working without proper earthing facilities would be ‘Fired’ Their reputation depended on correct procedures.

    • #3222605

      TheOSI – Non-invasive Techniques

      by dotxen ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      osi first, tcp/ip second and not silly stuff like how to build a pc. no-one builds pcs anymore. we buy them in, and throw them away at the end of their life-cycle.

      most importantly, teach non-invasive attitudes and techniques. no point fiddling about at the top layer (application) if the cables dropped out (physical.

    • #3222603

      Objects are life

      by marketingtutor. ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      I would start with objects, and the communication that links them. Like you already did…
      Motherboard goes here and is connected to the power supply. There are a few different PSU connector types…
      CPU goes here and is connected to the motherboard via the socket.
      Hard drives and CD/DVD drive goes here and is connected to the motherboard with these types of cables.
      Video Card…blah blah blah…

      Once they get the object and connection basics, and can get a basic system to turn on and only beep once at post have them disassemble it and rebuild it five more times. Be sure to use old stuff you don’t need as breakage amongst newbs is quite common until they get a feel for it. Hence the repetition.

      Above all, let them know to ask questions frequently if they’re in doubt of what to do next. As with most technicians, communication is an essential skill to learn. Not just listening, but talking too, and communicating an their thinking correctly and coherently.

      After the hardware assembly basics are finished, a light dose of introduction to BIOS is in order, followed by determining what to setin the bios to boot the installation media.

      I am a very techincally savvy person, and I must say that the most common theme I remember from my childhood is the continual breaking of things while taking them apart to figure out how they work.

      Its very important for the fledgling tech to break some things to get a good idea of the limitations of the parts, and how to correctly handle them.

      In my work, I have found the best techs and support people to be those adventurous types that aren’t afraid to break the rules, but know when to use common sense. Its a very rare combo that is in short supply these days.

    • #3222594

      Sorry, but if You don’t already know…

      by dukhalion ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      then You shouldn’t be the one teaching. (No ill will intended).

      • #3222571

        oh, I just love this

        by cloudberry ·

        In reply to Sorry, but if You don’t already know…

        There is always the one who wants to say these “constructive” things. You didn’t disappoint me again.

      • #3220053

        Sometimes we don’t have a choice

        by locolobo ·

        In reply to Sorry, but if You don’t already know…

        Where I work training varies. When we can, we try to go over the basics with the newbies. Often though, we just throw them in the deep end with little or no training. Some survive (stay), some move on.
        My point is that we have to change from where we are. Discussions like this can help a lot. If I can learn how to train or help the newbies so they can transition to “expert” more smoothly, then that is good.

        Paul

    • #3222577

      Basic electronics and ability to identify devices

      by neje ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      A basic knowledge of electronics and ability to identify devices, such as chipset, eeprom, hard disk will help. Basic electronics will help to understand device handling and what drivers need to be installed when documentation is not available. Lastly, there is nothing better than hands-on knowledge.

      • #3222568

        Notebooks

        by vtassone ·

        In reply to Basic electronics and ability to identify devices

        Get the guy a couple of good notebooks. I mean good old fashion paper ones (lol). The first is to copy down the things you teach him. Even if he never reads it again the simple act of writing it down reinforces to learning. The second notebook is to list the actions taken on a machine when working on it. I commonly work on 3 or 4 machines at a time. While running a scan on one I’m replacing a power supply on another. I have a notepad in front of each one in order to keep track of what I’m doing. It helps alot when you leave the bench for the night and come back in the morning. The boss at the first computer shop I worked for insisted on keeping notes. It’s become a great habit.

    • #3222573

      Addressing, Binary, & Communication

      by dm3haggitt ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      Teach your studnet to use complete sentences,
      paragraphs, and thought patterns so that he may avoid
      miscommunication. Communication is essential in any
      field, especially Information Technology. I agree, a
      grounding strap and a knowledge of DOS are essential. Also,
      an understanding of addressing and base 2 is helpful.

    • #3222567

      Basics

      by csmith8 ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      Tell them to get a “PC for Dummies” book. If they like it and can handle the detail then go more advanced. Micheal Meyers maybe…….

      I just believe to keep it very simple, to get a base for their interest and go from there.

    • #3222565

      Please don’t create another roofer.

      by franktate ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      I have worked in the IT industry for over fifteen years and I have seen it a million times. If I am a roofer and I take my cousin along to help on a job. Now he thinks he is a roofer. Tell this “tech” to go to school and spend the 100,000 like the rest of us. No room for half ass techs. Give him a book and let him read about algorythm and page file sizes. Give him some macromedia crap and cut him loose building a web site.

      • #3222463

        15 years?

        by kiltie ·

        In reply to Please don’t create another roofer.

        Wow, you must know it all by now then.

        ….and you bought all this for 100,000?
        A bargain.
        AND seen it a million times!!! (whatever “it” is). I stand in awe.

        ….however….
        I see you have been a member at TR for 4 years, but still haven’t learned how to fill out a profile though, maybe you can spend a bit less than 100Gs to find out.
        Maybe you can learn how to use a spell checker while you are at it too, and how to post without using profanity.

        Dunno where people get this notion that they have to [b][u]buy[/u][/b] experience, it didn’t cost me a penny.

        • #3220041

          Agreed

          by justinsvalois ·

          In reply to 15 years?

          I have to agree with you. These people who goto school for IT, and know absolutely nothing about computers think when they come out they should be making top dollar. Its quite funny to see. I have people in my Linux and Cisco courses that have absolutely no idea what they are doing. They hardly know how to use the terminal screens. Education is usefull for a foundation, but without the experience to build on top of the education, you really are not worth much. Especially when you think your education is worth so much.

          BTW Personal Skills, I would say are just as important as experience in this field. 8-D

        • #3275074

          Personal and Personnel Skills

          by compuhorsy ·

          In reply to Agreed

          Having been both the tech and the person who calls a more knowledgeable tech when I am in over my head, I will second how important personal / social / communication skills are.

          I hate it when I get a tech that cannot ask intelligent questions when I haven’t given him or her all the details needed to fix a problem or when the tech cannot explain to me how to avoid a recurrence. (Maybe that is job security?)

      • #3220133

        Hate to Break it to you.

        by justinsvalois ·

        In reply to Please don’t create another roofer.

        But not all of us are looking at becoming Web page designers…. that being said. I learned most of what I know on my own from age 9. Using DOS, working through all of the windows versions (SIGH) and using Linux as much as possible. I built my second computer from scratch, I took the time to research parts and how they worked. I became a computer tech. THEN I started going to school to become a System Admin. Now Im working on Info Sys Security. You have to start somewhere. There are plenty of people who are capable who were self taught.
        (Just my 50 Cents)
        PS and yes, I have played with webpages, just not in years. Not my thing. 🙂

      • #3220095

        Not to mention another paper technician

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Please don’t create another roofer.

        100,000k you should have got hold of me I’d have knocked 25k off that for you.

        Knowledge you can get from a professor, from sitting by a Nelly or from a book, skill to apply it is innate and honed by success and failure in the real world.

        I’ve been in the business 20 years, aside from my own personal library, haven’t spent a penny, annoying I’ll admit, but not something I can take responsibility for.

    • #3222556

      first most important lessaon . . .

      by pikeman6669 ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      ELECTROSTATIC DISCHARGE
      He MUST understand that he can destroy electronic componenents “silently” by touching them without having proper precautions in place. You don’t have to throw a spark to ruin a MB or card.

    • #3222539

      Open the case first

      by cweb ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      Break open the case and show him how all that fits together and what everything is. Help him take everything out and re-install the parts. Then power it up. I’d go through some of the error beeps (like when you forget to connect the keyboard, etc…)and show him the bios. Then install the OS. Then you can show him why the devices aren’t working because you need the drivers. I would NOT steer him towards any of the publications, unless you can find one that has lots of illustrations and is cheap! No need to get him to spend $60.00 just to learn how to put in a video card, when you’ve just shown him how to.

      • #3220093

        Before you do that, make sure it works !

        by tony hopkinson ·

        In reply to Open the case first

        You’ll scare the ‘ell out of the poor bugger, he’ll think he broke it, having forgot to don his wrist strap.

        LOL

    • #3222535

      KISS

      by drinkmetoo ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      You?ve said it yourself in your question, several times, THINK. I?ve found in many years, in the industry that what seems obvious, isn?t always. Went stumped, relax, and come at it from a new angle, or sleep on it. Also, some of the most complex and daunting problems have simple solutions.

    • #3222533

      training

      by arthur.bonilla ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      1) Hardware training: Tell them to be humble,
      2) Software training: Branch unconditional statement to instruction #1: tell them to be humble.

      I state this because after training newbies at electronics maintenance down to the component level and then later at my present career, training newbies as a desktop \ server site support specialist many come in with inflated views and objectives, money wise and knowlege wise. Its not just about imparting the knowledge but getting them to see the whole process, the big picture, the actual knowledge to complete the task, properly “seeing” the user base i.e. you user base is not supposed to have your skill set, just what they need to do THEIR job. etc.Getting them to do a thorough job etc.
      Write down all the important tasks to complete your most critical tasks. then break them down.
      Its a complicated issue and I suggest that you visit the library and look at HOW TO Teach/Train technical material subject matter. There is lots of good material out there. I come from a technical\maintenance and training background and your task is not as easy as it may seem BUT properly done once and you have proper training documentation specific to your needs it will save you time and effort in the future with future tainees and it will make you look sharp. I’m in that process right now for my new shop it works.
      email me if needed

      • #3222385

        training is completely…

        by jay_el_72 ·

        In reply to training

        different than IT work. I have my masters degree but had to go back to school to be a teacher. You can do it without the education but there is more to it than one thinks. You really should break you lessons into small learning activity packets that they can complete in a reasonable amount of time. Use a computer that isn’t the best or newest and tell them about something such as RAM and then have them read about it. After they have read, they can watch you do it, explain it back to you and then perform it under supervision.
        The hands on approach you are taking is the best way to learn by far and I commend you on taking on your new padoin!

      • #3276391

        training process

        by loggdata ·

        In reply to training

        Do you have something you can email me concerning your training process?

    • #3222532

      DOS\Linux BOOT DISKS

      by jerome.koch ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      1)Have the trainee create a set of DOS Boot Disks that will boot to a network share. The boot disks should work on any of your PCs

      2)Have him do the same with Linux boot disks.

      3)Have him install a custom Linux OS. He should be able to re-compile the kernal with a custom set of device drivers.

      4)Have him do the same with Windows using Sysprep.

      Once he/she can do that, he is ready to do basic desktop support. Unless he is supporting Servers, he should be able to do basic hardware support (NICs, HDD, Vid cards). Send him to vendor training if he is to do server hardware support; or better yet, just get a support contract for vendor HW. Once the trainee is comfortable doing desktop support, send him to get trained on whatever network OS you have running in your shop.

    • #3222531

      Ok. I read the 38 posts and I didn’t see the obvious.

      by rclark2 ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      First rule is safety.
      Second rule is keep the boss informed.
      Third rule is keep the user informed.
      Fourth rule is When in Doubt, Don’t.
      Fifth rule is try the obvious first. (Check to see if it’s plugged in)

      After that you guys have it pretty well handled. I would echo the people who said to take notes, but go futher and make them build detailed run sheets or check lists for for everything they do. Bring the check lists back to you and you approve or modify them. The little gotchas will show up then. If you need to change a procedure because you now replace a specific part or change the way you do something because of a case mod change, you can without rebuilding the whole check list.

      Young minds are a terrible thing to waste, but they are also a trial to train. More power to anyone who undertakes that task.

      For the trainer my advise is to take long breaks away from your trainee to recharge your attitude and regenerate your own ability to patiently give instruction. Remember you were once a newby too. They will also appreciate not having you breathing down their necks for a short period of time as well. Its how they grow. But don’t over do it, they need to know there are limits also.

      • #3222499

        Safety is paramount

        by brian.walters2@btinternet ·

        In reply to Ok. I read the 38 posts and I didn’t see the obvious.

        I’ve got to agree with RClark (message 44), safety is the very first lesson. A pile of quivering jelly hanging on the mains is no good to man nor beast.
        The second area of safety is for the equipment. ESD is a must and an anti-static strap should be the trainee’s first purchase.
        Listening is the next lesson. Listen to the trainer and learn. Listen to the equipment, it might be trying to say what’s wrong. Listen to the client, they can see what’s happening. Never say to a client “It can’t do that” …. it is doing that and that’s why you’ve been called in.
        After all that, A+ training seems like a reasonable place to start with the technical training.

        Employ a teenager …. while they still know it all.

      • #3222497

        Most basic element

        by nmeyer ·

        In reply to Ok. I read the 38 posts and I didn’t see the obvious.

        Critical thinking and basic trouble shooting skills.

        I’ve observed many “techies” with virtually no critical thinking skills. The bad techs apply this sad “problem/fix” approach; no understanding of the systems involved – just Pavlovian responses. In my career – I often fixed the “trouble” systems when the limited stimulus/response approach failed some other tech.

        I could go on and on – but simply put – effective skills in technology are a reflection of a way of thinking. Critical, methodological thinking.

        (I learned from college science and basic application of those skills OJT – plenty of help from skilled ex-Navy, ex-Air force technicians. Hours and hours of work – thousands of dollars in tuition)

    • #3222527

      Training up a beginner…

      by richard.bennett ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      One of the key parts of understanding a computer is what they are doing when you use one. Understanding the things that take place when it boots, when it makes any beeps, and what signs to look for as it boots up to the final screen will give them a guideline so they know what to expect.

      Its vital they know the proper sequences and what the results are to be able to determine when something isnt working properly. What should happen when you push the power button? What visible/audible indicators do you have to know everything is connected and working? Start with a working computer to give them a frame of reference. I would show him/her the major components, what is needed for them to “talk” to the system, staying as simple as possible. After this I would introduce built-in troubleshooting tools for simple problems. The light on your monitor, the beep sound during boot up, the sound of the hard drive spinning up,things like that. Dont over look the simplest things like the power supply setting or a pin bent on the VGA cable, keyboard or mouse cable. Most existing computers are not using USB keyboards and mice yet, so this is important.

      Lastly I would walk through some logical procedure to help them troubleshoot some of the most common problems. I find it useful for the new tech to have solved some of the simpler problems in our lab giving them a sense of confidence before sending them out to work in the field.

      • #3222491

        Read the manual

        by hlhowell9 ·

        In reply to Training up a beginner…

        I will assume that the individual already knows some electronics, and a bit of programming. If not get him into a community college and get the basics.

        After that, teach him to read the book and follow it.

        Not just the generic texts, but the specific manual on the motherboard, and the OS manuals. Ditto for the other software and hardware she may be exposed to. If you succeed in imparthing this knowledge you will have taught them the lesson that will stand them in good stead in all that they attempt.

        I have run into engineers all over the world that “don’t have time to read the book”, but will spend hours of their time waiting for someone to solve a problem that reading as far as page 3 would have solved.
        It is frustrating for those that support them, expensive for their employer, and ineffective at best if they simply do not bother to learn the basics of their chosen situatiion, and the craft they have chosen as a career.

    • #3222487

      Assess, Mentor, Certify

      by chris.johnson ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      The best thing you can do is to encourage them to pursue A+ Certification. But to start have a very frank conversation and find out what they know. They start with the basics, what is what, and where it is located, then how it is connected. But the best way that I have found to teach someone is to have them build a PC from scratch and then load an operating system. This will help them learn and I have found that they become better technicians because they have to learn solid troubleshooting. Even Luke had to build his first lightsaber. Good luck and be patient.

    • #3222479

      A++ certification.

      by djatomicice04 ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      if you don’t want to put him in a A++ class to get a certification,i suggest you get a book then start with simple hardware such as a hard drive and what it does and so on.

      • #3220039

        that’s an odd idea..

        by jaqui ·

        In reply to A++ certification.

        since A+ certification is useless in my netork I would never concider training someone fore it.

        after all it’s only usefull if you have microsoft’s malware installed anywhere. if you have professional quality software then it’s a useless cert.

        • #3276301

          It may not be as odd as you think…..

          by gmboat1 ·

          In reply to that’s an odd idea..

          To be honest though, I have never taken the A+ certification. It could be used to help a person to have a very good beginning reference for understanding what each element of hardware is; and what role the parts play in making pc parts collectivly into a computer.

        • #3274817

          Halfway

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to that’s an odd idea..

          If you can pass the hardware exam, you definitely know your stuff. The OS exam is only useful for, as you said, Windoze.

    • #3222471

      Teach This First…….Logic

      by gmboat1 ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      1. The Humans are smarter than the machines.

      2. Make sure he has a good grasp of the nomenclature (part names)that make a machine go.

      3. There are five elements that make a computer (pc, desktop,laptop,)the rest of the parts are peripherals. (monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc).

      The peripherals; are what the Humans use to comunicate with, and monitor the machines input or request, or store and retreive input and data.

      4. The basic elements are power(supply), Motherboard, memmory, video card, and of course the processor.

      Once he can grasp the basic and advanced functions of the basic five elements, as they interact in the POST, how they come together as a unit (PC); then it is time to
      Teach the steps of identifying and troubleshooting the basic five. It depends on how far you want to go with the MB, different types of connectors and agp, versus/ and or pci and of course bus structures.

      5. Once that happens, now you can teach memmory, the different types and how they interact.

      6. ROM, Ram, cache, video, upper,(umb)640k, 384, and beyond 1024k, protected, reserved,etc. this is a good time to touch binary math, and large numbers. Spend time with this one; couple this information with… this is the building block of how the machines “think”.

      He will have a better appreciation for this when you add a harddrive and start to teach storage devices, the different types of storage and what role they play in the boot process. The sectors cylenders, rpm’s, FAT table(s), boot sector, etc.

      7. That mystical term we call bootstap, that hyper leap from POST, to the machine showing the OS Logo, text or what ever the Humans need to acknowledge that IT’s; yeah IT is ready for Input.

      This is only the very basics of what you must know about machines to be a technician. There is a great deal of infmation I did not touch on or include,….I appologize.
      Some things I don’t think about anymore, they are quite literaly second nature to the way I troubleshoot “think about” machines.

      Greg

      • #3220059

        Fundamentals are key

        by w97civic ·

        In reply to Teach This First…….Logic

        If you’re teaching this guy from scratch, then I think Greg has a very good outline for you.

        I’m a networking major at a local University and when I had to take a class on basic computer hardware I was not interested in the idea at all. I had been building computers and networks for more than 10 years when I signd up for the class and couldn’t find a way to get out of it. The bottom line is that I learned all of these functions of a computer that I never really thought about. I didn’t know what the terms PCI or I/O meant I simply knew that certain components fit certain slots. I now am thankful I took the class and was taught what bus speed means, how SCSI works, what the difference is between RAM & ROM.

        I am now in a position where most of this knowledge doesn’t matter. What I would reccomend is to teach this guy these basics. You can get into the different OSs if necessary, but you stated that you are considering having him work for you. Once he has the fundamentals, focus in on exactly what you want him to do for you. If you are going to have hime build/repair PCs for you, then teach him about the different hardware that is available like 3.5 floppies vs. USB, serial connections vs. TCP/IP. Communication standards like the OSI model might be important also.If you are going to have him build databases for you, get him familiar with the db application he’ll be working with and all the designs methods and techniques.

        Whatever it is he’ll be doing, have him specialize in that area and focus on what you want him to be doing. Teaching someone everything you know sounds great, just don’t try to do it all at once or you might scare the person. Hope this helps & you two have some fun in the process.

        • #3219903

          Teaching someone everything you know sounds great

          by gmboat1 ·

          In reply to Fundamentals are key

          And if they can comprehend it all; then that?s’ even better.

          I appreciate you W97civic, it seems you have been in the trenches a couple times, maybe the “war-room” (a term used to describe the tech support environment needed for troubleshooting hardware, and to assist users/clients after a major upgrade or network push for more than 100 pc’s) also known as Maniacal Monday’s.

          W97civic realizes that Humans think on a higher level than machines and that as a technician you have to think on the machines’ level.

          I guess what I was trying to communicate to the Author of this thread….

          My approach with any newbie would be as a “teaching method”; to teach the tech how to “think” like the machines (or OS software, applications, network operating systems (NOS) learning to “think” like them is Key.

          Once the features of any hardware has been understood by the tech, he then has to become familiar with the “control interface” (software/or drivers) for machines, devices, interfaces, and of course the machine/human interaction.

          We sometimes refer to this machine/human interactive function as the interpreter or disk operating system (dos). You input symbols and characters and IT (the machine) turns the input into something it can understand (1’s and 0’s)

          In most cases you just have to “read the readme” files first, to understand what the manufacturer or programmer intended when interfacing or integration of hardware/software into the new environment.

          The “Readme.txt” It is one of the best places to start troubleshooting, and the error codes should be noted (on paper) for reference when trying to resolve the issue.

          Well I hope this can be used to enlighten a newbie somewhere….

          Greg

    • #3222470

      Teach them to turn a screw driver

      by gnx ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      Teach them to turn a screw driver. I hired a tech that was book smart and not mechanical. He had trouble using basic tools but could quote the most useless part of his MCSE book. If the book didn’t say it, he wasn’t able to do it.

    • #3222465

      How to research

      by joanre ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      Did not have time to go thru all posts, so don’t know if already said. In addition to existing posts I did read…

      Any problem, for 99% of problems, someone has already had and the answer is posted somewhere. Learn some solid research skills so that you can find a needle in a haystack on the general Internet and within any specific site if need be when looking for an answer. Comes in great when you need to learn by fire, and/or are on your own without help, or know more than anyone else with you and what you know can fit on the head of a pin. Or even when you do know quite a bit, too.

      I say this as a previous business researcher (non-IT) who uses those skills every day in my IT job.

      • #3222407

        This is good advice from Joanre

        by dm3haggitt ·

        In reply to How to research

        Joanre gives us good advice.

      • #3222406

        I like helpful advice like this

        by dm3haggitt ·

        In reply to How to research

        We should all try to give good advice like Joanre.

        • #3276292

          It’s called

          by gmboat1 ·

          In reply to I like helpful advice like this

          the knowledgebase or KB, and it gets bigger when the tech resolves the issue that has been seen, but not resolved. He contributes an article to the KB and it is reviewed by other contributors. The review is normaly done by recreating (break/fix) the issues and then documenting the results. this helps other techs and users.

          Greg

          Greg

        • #3223093

          Thanks for the info, just moved to Charlotte, looking for work

          by dm3haggitt ·

          In reply to It’s called

          Hey! Thanks for the info. I just moved back to Charlotte and I’m looking for work. Do you happen to know of anything that might fit my profile, gmboat1?
          Thanks.

    • #3222448

      Break something

      by kiltie ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      I don’t mean that literally, well not necessarily… lol

      There are a lot of good suggestions in the previous posts, between them you should be able to assemble a plan.

      What I mean is, when building a PC, once you have shown him how to do something, introduce faults. Use known faulty hardware, if you have any, a bad RAM chip, faulty keyboard, or whatever. If you are any good with a soldering iron, unsolder a few wires/connections, this will be easy as you can always fix it afterwards, since you know what the fault is. If you don’t have any faulty hardware, try something non destructive, such as (re)moving a jumper or loosening a connector.

      On the software side, try altering settings in the BIOS. Change some OS settings.
      If you feel brave, introduce a bit of malware, but only after you have shown him the tools to deal with it. Keep off any network while doing this though, that includes the Internet.

      I remember in another post that you were considering a possible Linux distro, so try him with the idea of using a Linux LiveCD to troubleshoot a system.
      For an advanced lesson, get him to know how to use the utilities of a system rescue disk, such as Ultimate Boot CD.

      Lastly, in all of the software lessons (hardware too) drum into him the necessity of saving vital data, making back ups, and document, document, document.

      He’ll thank you for it later, any notes he takes will prove invaluable in the future.

    • #3222425

      first thing to learn

      by half9 ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      learn to read and research. If the M/B book is there, take time to have a thumb through. And know where to go to get the information on the web. nobody knows it all and things change quite fast in the pc world. take the time to learn. I never throw out a instruction book, and boy they come in handy, even if it is only to put the front panel indicators on the M/B in the right place, and if possible put these on the M/B before you try to install it finally. It is a lot faster than trieing to fiddle around in a confined space with a pair of long nose pliers

    • #3220253

      Ask the oracle

      by javijaldin ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      Teach him to ask the oracle http://www.google.com

      • #3276289

        The Oracle…..

        by gmboat1 ·

        In reply to Ask the oracle

        So that is the name of the true answer god….LOL

        Greg

    • #3220239

      How to get started

      by georgeou ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      Read a lot of IT magazines. Learn how to build a computer. Learn how to install the OS. Get comfortable with the OS and applications.

      • #3220171

        First things first

        by dimbulb ·

        In reply to How to get started

        Teach/tell him to ask questions. If he’s unsure of how to do something-ask someone. If he deals directly with customers, he needs to ask them what’s wrong with the PC- what it does and doesn’t do, noises…. My boss just hired someone that doesn’t ask questions, doesn’t bother to learn how we do it here, just wants to do things his way. He won’t make past probation.

    • #3220078

      Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      by mrivera ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      – Teach him all the components of the computer. MB, Mem, HD, floppy (if any), USBs, etc…

      – Have him study for the A+ exam. This covers the basics on computers HW and SW.

    • #3219910

      Fault finding

      by tony hopkinson ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      Not fault guessing, fault assuming or fault dunno lets change this.

      First rule of fault finding change only one thing at a time. If it doesn’t fix it put back how it was and try the next possibility.

      Next rule 99.99% of the time if you are coming up with some really weird scenario based on the time of the day , the colour of the users socks and wind direction, you’ve missed something obvious.

      Third rule, the fault is always in the last place you looked, which is usually the place where you assumed it couldn’t be.

      • #3276269

        Good Advice!

        by dm3haggitt ·

        In reply to Fault finding

        Cool! Words to live by.

        • #3275542

          Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

          by pappasmurfsr49 ·

          In reply to Good Advice!

          I would say, talk to him/her find out what they know (or think they know)about computers. Why do they want to learn this? I learned by OJT. I wanted to learn about computers because they are in my life every day. The frig,car,stereo…everythings becoming computerized.
          Here’s my 2cents worth.

    • #3138086

      You only have to teach him one word

      by breadtrk ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      Google.

      There is not a problem he will ever come up against that he can’t find somewhere to start from with the G.

    • #3137988

      Don’t Reinvent the Wheel

      by jkowolf ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      There must be some A++ certification guide or book you could use as a reference/outline to your teaching. Then give him a PC and get started.

      I’m not a huge certification fan, but it would be a nice payoff for your apprentice.

    • #3275196

      Putting your knowledge in logical order

      by jell ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      This reply probably goes a bit wider than your question, but is relevant to many initial training tasks. It revolves around your last comment: “So I need help putting my knowledge in some sort of logical order.”

      This is often the problem with training – you know that lots of things are important, but you don’t really know which to do first, or which is most important.

      Knowledge Structure Mapping is a technique that lets you analyse the knowledge an organisation or person needs to accomplish a particular task, and understand how all the knowledge hangs together and what knowledge is an essential precursor of other knowledge.

      This sort of approach is probably over the top for a single student, but it has proved very useful in clarifying the sort of issue you raise. You can read some more at http://www.akri.co.uk

      Hope that helps.

    • #3225953

      Sounds like a full time job.

      by wesmantx059 ·

      In reply to Training a newbie tech…. What do you teach first?

      You know, I think it is a full time job and they call them teachers. But the best teachers that I have always had did the following
      1) took alot of time for what seems like on task, so that they could explane ALL of the middle work.

      EG. When you build the computer for the first few times, you need to stop him alot to explane the do’s and the do nots to him. As well as spelling out the anatomy of the system (this I think includes the sub componets of the MoBo [North Bridge, South, Video, Sound, Caps, ZIF PGA SEC Pin counts and the world of the socket]) He/She needs some GOOD reading material that not only goes over the inerworking of the machine but the HISTORY TOO! That will tell him tons on the WHY? questions.
      2) Hands on always works best in a 101 setting.
      He/She holds the screw driver. You hold a beer.
      3) I have never seen a teacher with out a well layed out game plan from the get go.
      Sit down and do some doodling.. Helps it flow if you draw your own mental pictures out for yourself.
      4) (And this is the hardest) PATIENCE!
      You didnt understand binary the first time it was shown to you….C’mon dont lie now. You learned it 2 or 3 ways till you had it down pat and you did some self study of some sort.

      Thats all I got realy. Good luck.
      I do suggest that you spend the extra $3 an hour to save some of the hair on your head. Training a new guy could kill you.

Viewing 37 reply threads