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  • #2128742

    Use of a certification

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    by venkat_1781 ·

    hai all

    i have both mcse and ccna certification.i have experince in wuindows nt 4.0
    .but not on cisco routers.Still iam not getting any satisfactory job. Could you please tell me whether doing any more certificatin will be usefull. Orjust go out and work wih this experince.

    thanks in advance.

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    • #3439280

      Experience is what counts

      by jimbb ·

      In reply to Use of a certification

      I feel like repeating myself over and over again, but companies are not interested in your certification. Companies are interested in someone that can make them become (more) profitable. It’s up to you to show you can help them.
      If you rely on only your certifications, then you give them no reason to hire you and not someone else with exactly the same certs – you’re certainly not alone with them. What you should outline is what you’re good at doing, not what theoretical knowledge you have -because let’s face it, a cert is nothing but that. Do you own a website? Make it a professionally looking one. Have you helped someone out for free? That too is very valuable experience, and most people don’t list it on their resume.

      A certification serves only one goal: get you beyond Human Resources. They usually do the hiring based on criteria that they can understand. Candidate one has cert A and B, and 3 years experience. Candidate two has cert A only, and 2 years. Mmm. He cannot be as good as candidate one. So purely for them: get a pile of papers, and impress them. But it will not give you work.

      Try to figure out who the hiring manager is, and figure out what kind of person (s)he is looking for. They usually don’t care for certs, but they want to know what you can do, and how, and if you’ll fit in the existing team. And if you manage to get their interest (“I’m used to using tool X”, “I found a workaround for problem Y in the particular case you’re mentioning”, “thinking of using product Z? Oh, I’ve worked with that. Not much, but enough to know the pitfalls when installing it”), they can get you around HR.

      It requires a little more work than just sending in a job application, you’ll have to investigate both the company and the culture a little. But you’ll get results for sure.

      Jim

      • #3423310

        use of certification

        by muthusamy ·

        In reply to Experience is what counts

        I too agree, but The indidual certification will help the company in many ways.
        like the company want to project their resources to the client, they have to show the client that the company got certified professional in the particular prime area. it is kind metual trust between client and company, so based on the skills strength the client will decide wheather to join hands or not. I would say that’s how the indidual certification will help the company to grow more and more.

        Muthu

        • #3434366

          Having a certificate than none

          by jeffersonrexb ·

          In reply to use of certification

          For a newcomer into the computer field without any experience, having a certificate is better than having no certificate and no experience.

          If a person has no experience and no certificate, what is there to talk about?

          For me my strategy is get certified then get all these machines in ebay and master them. Thus, if someone ask me had I worked on a vlan catalyst 3000 switch, I can say “yeah”, I got one at home.
          (I got a proliant 5000quad too—play with them everyday.)

          a+, ccna

        • #3649779

          experience vs certification

          by modijayesh01 ·

          In reply to use of certification

          basically, once you get one or two good certifications, that must be enough to get entry in industry. technology changes very fast. You can not spend money to achieve new certifications.
          When you work in the field, automatically you get knowledge.But at the same time you need to study new technolody also. If you have good experience, that is more valuable than certification.

        • #3649765

          CATCH 22

          by rrgilmore_2001 ·

          In reply to experience vs certification

          Ya I will agree

          But in order to get the experience ,you need to get certificatons to get the job, to get the experience. You say that experience out ways the certs? I want know how long have you been in the IT field?
          BECAUSE IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKEYOU GOT GRANDFAUGHERED IN: in a time where all you needed was a pulse.

          I will also make this statement, there are so many of you poeple out there that forgot where you came from.
          Ya I am talking about all of you that never seen a client’s site. Untill after you had 1-3 years
          in some computer shop and your MCSE. Why don’t all
          of you haters stop hating.

          QUIT DRINKING THE HATERAID…

        • #3651330

          Wait for it…Wait for it…

          by road-dog ·

          In reply to CATCH 22

          Absolutely, some of us were “grandfathered in”. I got into IT back during the transition from the mainframe/terminal to client/server. My first network was terminal emulator on PCs and / or terminals connected to comm servers DIX connected to ethernet.

          The environment HAS changed. There are degree programs in IT now, when there only was CS when some of us got started. It most definitely is harder to get that important first position now. Tooling on us “old farts isn’t going to help you.

          Many people have been screwed with this “HOT IT JOB TRAINING”. They have been sold training with the idea that the job offers would roll in after certification.

          Anybody with some certification and little experience is going to have trouble gettingthat first break in the absence of an “inside” buddy. My advice is to go with a small company who needs someone on their small network. The money and the hours will suck, but the experience will help in the long run.

          I think that maybe when the recovery happens, things will break open for many. If its any consolation, a lot of guys with both training and certs are riding the pine right now, (I know 2 who “dropped dead” in the layoffs after 9-11). One is going for real estate license, and the other is eaking out a living selling web pages.

        • #3651143

          PAYING THE DUES

          by gizmo5050 ·

          In reply to Wait for it…Wait for it…

          Yes older techs learned by paying the dues. I was a Tech. Then a sr Tech then a Teacher for a collage Paying your dues i wish everybody had to do it. They might learn something.

          Christopher L Gay
          A+,MCP,MCSE+I,CCNA

        • #3651270

          Unadulterated Bovine Excrement

          by rkweller ·

          In reply to CATCH 22

          Certs are only a door opener. If you believe anything else you are only fooling yourself. Yes I have been in the IT profession for more then 15 years. I wouldn’t give you a dime for a room full of MCSE’s with no experience. Or any other cert holder without experience for that matter. I could rattle on and tell you the stories, but that would be a waste of bandwidth. I can tell you having worked up from nothing and becoming the Director of a corporate IT departmrnt that in my experience hiring so called “IT Professionals” based upon a cert aquired from a camp that guarantees the particpant will pass is a shallow cert for sure.

          I will tell the originating poster, that from your post I would think before hiring you as an IT team member in my organization. I look at the professional manner of the team member. From your post I gathered that you are hurried, unorganized, and not very professional. Your post was poorly worded and, well, the spelling is another matter. I don’tmean to sound cruel, but I am assuming from your post a critique of sorts is what you are looking for.

          Clients look for knowledge and professionalism with regard to the IT industry. No matter how many certs’ you or your orginization possess, if you lack the latter it means nothing.

          Lets all wake up and smell the roses.
          In-case you are wondering I am A+, MCSE, CCNA certified.

        • #3650682

          Additional Bovine excrement

          by ferocious ·

          In reply to Unadulterated Bovine Excrement

          I started causing errors on PCs back in 1992, in that I would cause the problem and then fix it for practice. After ten years, nothing has changed. I got a Bachelor degree in CIS in 1997. A company opened the door for me in 1998 not knowing what they needed, only that I worked cheap (14.50/hr). After three years and an MCSE and A+ certification, they let me go because they needed to save money and use outside support. I tell companies what I’m familiar with in their organization and how I used my experience to fix problems. I do “charity” work for my wife’s company on occasion, playing with the NT Servers, and do support for Doctors. One day I’ll get in with a company that vacuums my brain clean of all the knowledge I have garnered, but in the meantime I keep plugging away like everybody else. BTW, I was a truck driver for 11 1/2 years before I started college. My wife believed in me enough to encourage me to go to college, and I was 35 at the time. Those boot camp certs are a joke, in a nutshell, if you don’t have experience and problem-solving skills. Also, I’m an MCSE and A+ white male.

        • #3651142

          YAAAAAAAA

          by gizmo5050 ·

          In reply to Additional Bovine excrement

          YA, You go

      • #3650556

        Certs = Self Assessment Tools

        by tomsal ·

        In reply to Experience is what counts

        The old cert debate again.

        My feelings are that to be a valuable and well rounded IT professional there really are really three components that are required and the fourth is helpful, but largely optional.

        The required 3:

        1) Good personality (I’m being very broad here – throwing in your social skills with your general attitude and demeanor as well)

        2) Formal Education (This leaves out certs in favor of college degrees or at the EXTREME minimum a H.S. diploma)

        3) Experience (Preferred is on-the-job experience from a previous employer, however for new comers it relates to EXTENSIVE hands-on experience with simulated real world IT situations/problems)

        The optional 4th “component”:

        4) Certifications.

        Despite the claims of newspaper and magazine ads, I’ve yet to find an IT job in my area that outright refuses or dismisses an applicant due to lack of certification. Along those same lines however, I can say with confidence that at LEAST 90% of all well-to-excellent paying IT positions REQUIRE college degrees and/or practical work experience.

        I’m working on a BA degree, which I just started to supplement my 6 years IT experience (manager), 2 AAS degrees and three certifications (I actually have more certs, but I only count 3 as “real” ones – the others are from small time education programs). I got lucky now that I think about it – my employer didn’t require a BA degree six years ago when they hired me, so I’ve been gradually building up my education and experience over the years.

        I plan on getting more certs, but its no rush. Certs are more for the individual than anything else – IMO. If you work HONESTLY (ie. no cheating/using brain dumps) for your cert they are great tools to assess your skills,target your strengths and your weaknesses.

        That’s how I use them and it has made me a better IT manager.

        later.

    • #3446484

      There is no substitute for experience.

      by retro ·

      In reply to Use of a certification

      Maybe the problem isn’t the certifications. We all know there is no substitute for experience in the IT field. I would spend my time learning new and better interview techniques and negotiating skills. Perhaps at your next job interview, you should angle toward your desire to gain more working experience with the Cisco equipment. This may involve attempting to take control of the interview for a period of time, which insn’t the easiest thing to do. The perfect job won’t fall into your lap,sometimes you have to coax it a little.

      • #3422035

        Experience, certification & will

        by kpfreelance ·

        In reply to There is no substitute for experience.

        I have quite a few years of experience as a Systems Admin and am looking to move on to network operations support. Last year I got my CNE (we are a Novell house) and we have also migrated from cc:mail to Exchange (I’ve gained some good experience there). I’ve been posting my resume on the web for a while and I still get the same “jokers” calling and leaving a message that they’re looking for someone with helpdesk and desktop support experience (even though my objective clearly states that I’m looking for a NetOps position). I just recently got my CCNA; fortunately, Cisco’s training does give you some good basic hands-on experience with configuring internetworking devices. I hope that helps this time around and I probably will have to “takeover in a interview” to avoid being steered down the same old path.

        • #3650810

          RE: Experience, certification & will

          by jcyt ·

          In reply to Experience, certification & will

          After reading your post, I have a suggestion that may help you receive the desired job opening responses you prefer. I would suggest you seek a position as a Network Engineer, or a LAN administrator. You are receiving the responses for Help Desk or Desktop Support positions because of the reference to NetOps. In a growing number of IT shops today, you will find that Network Operations and/or Systems Operations perform first level network/systems support as well as after hours Help Desk support. By changing your job search to better utilize your certifications and develop the career path you desire, you will find using keywords such as Network Analyst, Network Engineer, or LAN support will provide the results you are seeking.
          Also, please remember, most companies have some form of ‘probationary’ period when you will be required to not only ‘talk the talk’ but also ‘walk the walk’.
          With all my certifications, as well as multiple year recipient of ‘International Who’s Who of Information Technology’ & ‘International Who’s Who of Professionals’, I can guarantee you that the ability to ‘walk the walk’ has been the most beneficial in my career. Good Luck!

    • #3432012

      Experience is more valuable

      by derek schauland ·

      In reply to Use of a certification

      I have experience in NT as well and Win 2k… not enough experience though. I am an MCSE on win2k and it is not really playing into things except making my resume look nice.

      I got certified right out of school and only right then because there were no jobs available just then… but I would have certified in 2k anyway.

      I am glad I got the cert because it shows that I can use the product, but I am still waiting to get a shot to get real experience…

    • #3651326

      Help Desk?

      by road-dog ·

      In reply to Use of a certification

      Have any of you guys in the “certified but not experienced” quandry tried help desk jobs? I’m seeing lots of help desk positions opening. It sucks, but at least it gets you in the door.

      Just a suggestion..

      • #3651294

        I agree!

        by jereg ·

        In reply to Help Desk?

        Too many prople fall for the sales pitch from technical training schools. If you get certified, you’ll get a job making $70-80,000.00 a year to start. Sorry, but that’s just not going to happen. You certification and $3.00 will get you coffee at Starbucks. Certifications are good, but only if you have some experience. Take an IT job, ANY IT job to get started. Work on a help desk. Do the work that you’re asked and do it well. You’ll learn a great deal, get experience, and if you take the nasty jobs that nobody else wants, you stand a much better chanse of promotion. Jobs are tough to find now, so take what you can and get on the job experience. When the economy turns around, you’ll be in a great position to take advantage of it.

        • #3651236

          Use of a certification

          by lesboyce ·

          In reply to I agree!

          Just my two cents. Take it from a old guy who thought if he worked for the same company he could retire happy and wealthy. NOT!! After sixteen years with company A, I went for my CNE. Four years later my MCSE. Two networking jobs later I’m finally make a decent living. Be willing to pay your dues and be very friendly to the guys who do have experience. Most are glad to show or tell you what they know.

      • #3651263

        Help desk starts

        by rkweller ·

        In reply to Help Desk?

        Very good point, I also put in my time at a help desk. Nothing short of a miracle and placed in a hot spot will you get better experience and for the most part at your pace. A good help desk org will give you free training and assistance in aquiring excellent troubleshooting skills.

        Maybe more importantly it gives a better then McDonald’s cash flow until something else opens up for you.

      • #3652062

        Help Desk quagmire.

        by nonamecharlie ·

        In reply to Help Desk?

        It is a good stepping stone but you can get stuck there (Gosh, who do I know in that predicament?).

      • #3652055

        Help Desk quagmire.

        by nonamecharlie ·

        In reply to Help Desk?

        It is a good stepping stone but you can get stuck there (Gosh, who do I know in that predicament?).

        • #3650667

          Begin making your escape plan..

          by road-dog ·

          In reply to Help Desk quagmire.

          I’ve seen people who are “unreplaceable and thus unpromotable”. The key is to have a heart-to-heart with your boss and explain your predicament. If you get nowhere, and your skillset makes you suitable for a higher position, you might want to bring it to his attention that if you do find that promotion at another company, he will lose you anyway. Explain that you do not want to go, but you will if you have to.

          A wise manager will try to keep you as an asset to your company even if it is notunder him.

          I’ve seen several good people move up from help desk to support using this argument.

          Good luck, nobody likes feeling “stuck”.

        • #3650655

          That does sound reasonable..

          by nonamecharlie ·

          In reply to Begin making your escape plan..

          …but my boss would be featured on those “rant about your IT job discussions”…so, I just keep pounding the pavement and brushing up on my skills between 1 and 4 in the morning.

        • #3650643

          Is this guy the helpdesk Sup?

          by road-dog ·

          In reply to That does sound reasonable..

          Hopefully, this boss is over the help desk and not whatever other department covers what you want to do. If he is not, get qualified/certified at the tasks that would be required of you in that department. Meet/greet the current employees there. Network Network Network. When a position opens up, make sure that you are the #1 person the other folks think of to fill it. Make sure that your buddies in the other department KNOW that you’re interested, and that you want to know as soon as they find out that a position is going to open.

          Make sure that you are ready for the posting when it happens, check in with HR and articulate your qualifications.

          Good luck!

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