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Vista- a marked improvement on XP?

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Vista- a marked improvement on XP?

tednyhan
Unquestionably in my opinion I feel that Vista is one of the greatest software advancements of the modern generation.I would like the cynics to reply A.S.A.P. with their easily refutable negative comments on Vista so I can tear you apart with my in-depth knowledge on this magnificent system. I would also love comments from the pro-vista posse.
Vive la Revolution!!!!
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    Tony Hopkinson

    Need a point of reference bfore I can burn you up.

    Advancement from what?

    or Advancement for whom?

    Either or both will do.

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    CharlieSpencer

    He spent the last 20 years at Verizon, a company that didn't exist 20 years ago. I suspect that for most of the last 20 years he was still swimming in his father's prostate.

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    WOW

    Tony Hopkinson

    People have made suggestions that my ego is a tad over inflated.

    I shall simply refer people to him and change mine, to meek and humble. ]:)

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    FilipVR

    It makes you wonder about TechRepublic's policy on assessing items before linking them in their newsletters.

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    Tony Hopkinson

    to be fair, that would be hard to do without a human in the process.

    Notice, he hasn't come back to easily refute anything.

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    Richard81

    Judging by the infantile remarks in his profile I would highly agree with your observations concerning his age...

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    w2ktechman

    1. Training is needed for things that everyone already know how to do!

    2. many drivers are not supported yet, so installing HW will oft. result in a non-useable device.

    3. Most SW that is currently in use, including proprietary company-created SW, is not useable under Vista, which requires re-working useable applications.

    4. many companies do not update their systems regularly enough to use the newest MS OS. machines made 3-5 years ago will be slow at least, or not capable of running Vista.

    5. Bugs, MS has a list of bugs that are not yet fixed, and the list gets bigger everyday.

    6. explain why it is the best OS, other than it is the newest and you like the look of it. How in-depth are you? Your post was generic and crap with absolutely no insight as to anything other than a small rant. Does someone you know work at MS or something so you are taking their word for it? Specify your position in detail if you want others to as well. What makes it magnifiscent? because it is new? Because of Aero? Because you have no clue? or because you are just ignorant of reality?

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    mroseberry

    7. The DRM in Windows Media Player 11 is the worst that M$ has put out yet.

    8. The OS is very expensive (between $200 and $400 depending on the version).

    9. The User Account Control to prevent malware from installing can come up so often that selecting "Allow" may become a reflex action since there is no thought required.

    (Maximum PC / February 2007 / 10 Reasons You Don't Need Vista Today)

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    Tony Hopkinson

    You just know people are going to click yes, and then reel back in horror as their brain catches up with their finger.

    Del *.*

    F%&&&*&&^^%%. t

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    w2ktechman

    Thank You for adding them to the list.

    And to think, these are just some of the main reasons not to move!

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    Ambercroft

    The OS is cheap.
    All you have to do is get it preloaded on the new expensive, top of the line computer you have to buy so it will run. :)

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    Home built pc in 2004 for XP Pro
    1 MSI K8M NEO-V $80
    2 AMD Athlon 2800+ $160
    3 1 gig DDR memory PC3200 $120
    4 eVGA GeForce 5200 256 meg DDR $80
    5 Mid Tower case with 500 watt ps $60
    6 DVD RW+- DL $35
    7 WD 120 gig ata 100 harddrive $80
    total $615
    Runs Vista Home Premium/Ultimate RTM with no problems. All hardware drivers installed from installation-on.
    Top of the line NO Mid range maybe!
    Vista Home Premium will cost $239-$10 less than Windows 95 when I bought it.
    Mike

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    apotheon

    It's crazy that Vista should require all that just to run without problems. I'm using a 1.6GHz P4 with 256MB of RAM and an ATI 9200 with 128MB of video RAM on this FreeBSD system, and it is screaming-fast. While cutting RAM might slow it down a bit, the rest of the specs are well above what FreeBSD needs to provide performance Vista can't touch even with 4GB of RAM on a 3GHz processor with dual-SLI PCIe video.

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    j.g.camp

    wait until you try Ubuntu Linux.

    Vista needs mega amounts of memory to support it's features, you pay for the eye candy in terms of software and hardware. I beta tested RC2 on a system, it took between 300-400 MB of the RAM. That box had only 512 MB, I think if I had 4 GB, I wouldn't care, but that memory is intended to be used for productivity, not eye candy. For that Ubuntu gives me Aplle OS level looks and uses 120-140 MB of RAM on the same box.

    As for 3rd party applications, I get them free. Gimp, the equivalent of Photoshop, with Vista, I'd pay upwards of $ 1,000 for the latest Photoshop. There's also a 3d renderer called Blender. The titles are virtually endless. I have no use for Vista or anything else MS after converting over to Ubuntu. And guess what, in April 2007, I get my 3rd free OS within a year, if I so desire to upgrade. It's free of course, will work, and is stable and secure. I guess I don't need $ 399 for Vista Ultimate. Who knows, why don't I just have a portion of my tax refund go to MS and I can have Vista on layaway ?

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    marjoe2

    Everyone knows Windows Vista is a cheap and poorly implemented clone of Mac OS X Tiger. Tiger is better in every way, and Leopard OS X 10.5 due out soon shows how often a real OS maker releases new versions, and at reasonable prices even for students. There is no way you can say Vista is better than Tiger unless you are on the MS payroll.

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    escinfotech

    Vista the greatest software ever? Please give me a break. If Microshit created it, how can it possibly be superior. I'll take Linux any day thank-you.

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    dawgit

    But first let me step down a little...
    it no work 4 me, me find big rock, sqush bug, vista dead mon.
    There simple. I CAN'T use it. It doesn't meet anyones standards (not yet anyway).
    No reason to expend funds that vcan be better used else-where.
    Any questions? -d

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    wgs777

    Everything I've read about Vista points to incompatibility with hardware and existing software. Vista is a very slow running high overhead operating system. All benchmarks show Vista runs games 15% to 20% slower than XP on high end PC's. XP Pro SP2+ runs fast on my 6 year old son's 366 MHZ PC with 256 MB of Ram. I have a huge library of Windows 98 games (which I purchased in 1999, 2000, and 2001) which work perfectly on Windows XP. None of them run on Vista! Why can't Microsoft make an OS which is compatible with their previous OS's? This points to the poor quality of Vista. I wish Microsoft would have made Vista even more backward compatible than XP with existing hardware and software, and with even less overhead than XP. But Vista is moving in the opposite direction. Also, I don't think any business will ever touch Vista because of its incompatibility issues with existing hardware and software. Businesses nowadays are laying off thousands of works to aggressively cut costs. How can any business justify an expensive hardware/software upgrade to Vista. The only benefit after spending all that money would be incompatibility problems with existing software. Home users will be surprised to find Vista won't run a lot of their software. I honestly believe Vista will be criticized as being the worst operating system ever created (because of its incompatibilities and high overhead). I have respect for those people who want to use Vista, but I'm rushing to buy new PC's while they still come preloaded with XP Pro.

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    Den2010

    I've beta tested four different builds of Vista since last June. I've been running it on a 1.4 GHz Athlon with 1 GB of RAM and an nVidia Geforce 5200 video card with 128 MB RAM. I can run Aero without any limitations, other than speediness.
    What I've found troubling about Vista (currently using Build 5744) is all the changes, small and large, that seem to be more for the sake of change itself than for any good reason. For instance, to start with the most obvious--the Aero interface. Why do we need translucency? What does it add to the user experience in a productivity sense? I've found it rather disconcerting to have a notice pop up from time to time, telling me that this or that application is not compatible with Aero and that the display mode is changing to Basic. When the offending application is closed, then the screen blanks out and returns to the Aero UI. What's up with that? Is this something that has persisted into the RTM version? I've not seen any posts on this behavior, and can't believe that I'm the only person experiencing it.
    Another thing that bugs me is the collection of junk that goes under the name of Windows this and Windows that. I guess maybe it's just me, but I haven't found much use for Microsoft's crippled applications for handling photos and such, when such capable applications are available from third-party vendors (often for free download) as an alternative. My notion of an "operating system" is of a software platform that provides "services" upon which others can develop applications to do useful things, not a collection of software that serves as a one-stop-shop for the original vendor. Now it's true that Microsoft has made available to ISVs the APIs necessary to write products for their various versions of Windows over the years. It's also true that each version of Windows has had more features in it than the previous version, and they're generally not of such a quality that most people would want to use them. I'm thinking of things like Windows Backup, or Outlook Express, or Paintbrush--the list could go on. It's true that novice Windows users will use these trifles, but most people rapidly outgrow their use fairly early on, and want something that is more capable. Wouldn't it make more sense for a group of vendors to come together to offer a "desktop pack," for instance, collecting the best products for basic personal computer use in one place and then making that available to Windows customers, either as a free add-on or as a specially priced product with new copies of Windows? Why does Microsoft include semi-functional versions of software that it does, instead of making use of partners who know better how to do this sort of thing?
    Finally, and most damning, is Vista's DRM components. I've read some rather dire accounts of costs of the implementation of this DRM regime; why would I want to inflict this kind of thing on myself?
    I'll most likely wait until I have no other choice (unless I chuck Windows entirely for some 'nix, at least) before widely installing Vista at home and work. The next year or two should be _very_ interesting.

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    dawgit

    Now that was a good post, I enjoyed reading it. A Thanks to ya. I do believe that it really depends on ones location. Over here in Europe (Germany in my case) we see a different animal altogether. (I did just see Vista Home Priemum to be offered at the local super-market, today. for at least 2x what XP Home is sold for. ?:| ) The problem is that untill we can get our hands on the 'real' Vista (for businesses) no-one knows how it will work. I do see a trend on the part of M$ to try to 'sneek' it in as the platform that runs their Office 2007. I can't say that's to beat the EU-Regulators, but it looks fishy to some of us. They're not really pushing Vista on the business world, but they are their new Office Program, which is built on Vista. (And after you get in the door, all thay want to talk about is Vista, and not what it does, but what it will do.) I would have to say the jurory is still out on this whole mess, but the major concensus is "Why". -d

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    mroseberry

    Does that version of Vista have Media Player 11?

    I read that because the public in Europe is so much more DRM aware than in the USA, M$ will have versions available there without the DRM laden Media Player 11 so people are more likely to buy it than boycott and protest it (which the public should do everywhere there is DRM).
    I wonder if I can get those versions and install them in the USA?

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    dawgit

    That still hasn't been totally decided yet. What's funny is when all the Windoze Media Players (version 11, that is) stoped working at the same time on 31 Dec / 1 Jan. uh, what a stink that caused. And that with the 'New' OS. That did not help M$ at all.

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    Plus it was the tv tuners that quit working as the license on the codecs in RC1 ended.
    SO WHAT. It was a release candidate after all.
    The version you buy January 30th won't do that.
    Mike

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    ?:|

    dawgit

    Hallo, Glad to see you're out and about, outside the other string. (I'm begining to think you and gsaravin are trying to break the TR record)
    Anyway, I can't personally answer that, so I have to go by what I read and hear.
    I don't have the Vista yet to test, due to the fact you have mentioned above. It was Windows Media Player 11, that was in question. (on the Vista Home Priemum OS platform.) TV cards have been talked about, but there are too many Hardware-driver issues at this point, not many work yet. TV, in general is not the issue here as we are DVBT anyway.
    and I sure hope you're right, that the version I might be able to buy EOM won't do that. -d

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    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-6147259.html

    According to this it was tv tuner stops working.
    Plus included on the dvd is more drivers than was included in any other version of Windows.
    The only drivers unavailable for my pc is the printer drivers which are supposed to be made available before launch event.
    Mike

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    tednyhan

    It is difficult to imagine a microsoft product without criminal DRM schemes. Supposedly media player 11 is unusual in this regard but I suspect msft will put their copyright before anyhthing else. I doubt mp 11 has anything remarkably unique and enhancements made are most likely risk-of-lawsuit motivated rather than fear of boycotts or consumer digruntlement. I fear if you do get your hands on it you will be disappointed. It is funny that msft's mp3 offering won't be tied to a particular download store a la iTunes. You're even meant to be able to transfer songs and videos albeit with an automatic expiration after 2 days.
    On Vista, contrast quality of xbox 360 with that of msfts OS. Are we witnessing an IBM behemoth phenomenon within msft? Maybe John Akers 13 autonomous divisions formula would be advisable?

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    mroseberry

    dbarr said
    "Wouldn't it make more sense for a group of vendors to come together to offer a "desktop pack," for instance, collecting the best products for basic personal computer use in one place and then making that available to Windows customers, either as a free add-on or as a specially priced product with new copies of Windows?"

    - I highly recommend TheOpenCD (currently version 4.0) which you can download a free ISO of at "http://www.theopencd.org/Welcome".
    It contains many popular open source programs like OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird, 7-zip, the list goes on (33 in all) and I guarantee that any person that gives it half a chance will find things on it they will want to use.
    It's not on the CD so I also recommend SyncBack (the freeware version) which is at "http://www.2brightsparks.com/downloads.html#freeware". It takes a little getting used to but it works great.

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    in Vista RTM. But so what? In XP there are some software that if the resolution is too high it changes to a resolution that works.
    On DRM what implementations and what costs??
    As far as limited included software-it's good enough for most people but if you need a more rounded implementation, you can buy it. Just like in most any other os.
    Mike

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    1 My Windows 98 games won't play in XP
    2 No drivers for the hardware
    3 incompatibility issues with current hardware/software
    4 too resource hungry
    5 too expensive to upgrade hardware/software for XP
    6 XP too expensive
    HMMMMM same issues that are mentioned by you. How about that.
    Mike

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    gsaravin

    i rest my case.
    mick

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    CharlieSpencer

    At least, he hasn't responded to anyone's points. His profile shows he lobbed a couple of grenades on Tuesday and hasn't been heard from since. I hate a troll who doesn't have the stones to hang around.

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    tednyhan

    Has anyone not noticed that as I live in Tullamore, Ireland I couldn't possibly work for Verizon? I don't think Vista has had a European release as of yet, but I'll stand corrected. I have used a downloadable version(illegal- shocking for most of you corporate types i know)of Vista and its relatively poor I admit but I think y'all deserve it for putting any faith in a monopolised dinosaur. Vista's predecessors crash incessantly, inefficiently utilise memory and if I see another bloody fatal error report giving you the option to inform Microsoft their product is crap I'll crack!I ask you- what did you expect? Do you think Gates de facto retired just before Vista coincidentally? Btw My niece and friends set this up, told me about this and had a great laugh out of "Palmetto"'s post.I work for Kerry group, have a biz/law degree and am not a true techie but unfortunately I am subjected to a host of substandard programmes from msft,

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    w2ktechman

    then you loaded crap SW on it. I have many machines with XP, and they all work fine. I have lots of crap on them as well.
    But if Vista works for you, thats great, although an illegal copy is frowned upon here!

    its not only the OS that causes crashes, it is usually the SW loaded afterwards or a HW problem.

    Since too many spyware/malware/virus are not out for Vista yet, you may just be lucky at the moment.

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    wgs777

    Hi,

    I've been using Windows XP Professional since it first came out in October 2001. Its a rock solid OS, built from the same very stable code base of Windows 2000. In my humble opinion, Windows XP Professional is the best operating system Microsoft will every produce. And my research on the web has uncovered articles that show that 87% of the world's PCs are currently running Windows XP. I don't think Vista will every gain more than 50% market share of the world's PCs. Vista will be lucky if it ever achieves 15%.

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    since Beta1. Both are rock solid.
    Personally I like Vista RTM so much I think that within the next year and half it will beat XP in installed base.
    I have been using Vista Ultimate RTM(the same thing you can buy January 30th) since November of 2006. It is rock solid.
    Mike

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    wgs777

    I respect those of you who want to use Vista. I just hope you're ready to face the fact that a lot of your favorite programs will never work on Vista. For that privilege of saying good-bye to your favorite programs, Microsoft, the Motion Picture Association of America, Intel, AMD, etc will charge a tax of $2,000 on your savings. Did I forget to mention that the new dual core or quad core supercomputer you buy will run slower than an old system running XP due to Vista's exponentially high overhead. Why is Vista so slow and incompatible? Why would anyone want Vista?

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    Tony Hopkinson

    now he works for the Kerry group, so sell that.

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    CharlieSpencer

    Pushing a lawn mower around his neighbors' yards. And he probably does a lousy job.

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    wgs777

    Is tednyhan really Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer?

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    tednyhan

    Microsoft copies Apple so much, you'd expect them to copy OSX's top-notch UNIX security model!!!!! Perhaps the next, post-Vista version of Windows will be based around the Linux security model.obviously Microsoft won't stoop to Apple's level and say something negative about them and yet, their marketshare has never stooped as low as Apple's either.

    "in 2001, OSX came out and 5% of the world was experiencing it."

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    tednyhan

    Windows Vista advancements in security and reliability, along with its cost and operational efficiencies, give you and your users confidence in your company PCs. With Windows Vista, users have clear ways to organize and view their information, which enables them to focus on the most important aspect of their jobs. Windows Vista communication, mobility, and networking features keep users connected to people, information, and devices. Combined, these benefits bring clarity to your world and to the world of your end users.

    These capabilities make Windows Vista a great operating system solution for your company PCs. From the perspective of an IT professional, Windows Vista is easier to deploy, and less expensive to maintain, than any earlier version of Windows. From the perspective of end users, Windows Vista's improved performance and reliability add value by allowing people to be more effective while performing their jobs.

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    tednyhan

    Wow Starts now!!!! Whoooooo!!
    Microsoft will officially launch Windows Vista and Microsoft Office
    2007 System for consumers at a special event in Times Square in New
    York on January 29 called "Wow Starts Now." At the event, Microsoft
    and its partners will promote Vista, Office 2007, and related
    products.

    "On January 29, Microsoft will celebrate the launch of two amazing
    products that represent the culmination of a tremendous team effort,"
    an email message from Microsoft reads. "Millions of people--Microsoft
    employees, developers, valued customers, bloggers, families, media,
    the entire industry--have come together like never before and added
    their own individual imprints to help make Vista and Office 2007 the
    most tested products in Microsoft history."

    The January 29 event apparently includes a lunch reception, then a
    launch celebration. "Our celebration is dedicated to the millions of
    people who helped transform the operating system into a rich
    experience that's more exciting and more powerful than ever before,"
    the email reads.



    I have spent the last weekend trying to acquaint myself with Windows Vista. I very much wanted to like it. I was a super-involved Windows 95 beta tester and always carried the Microsoft message with me - even participating in one of Bill Gates' keynote speeches. But I come away disillusioned. I am a seasoned professional - a sophisticated software developer and I love tinkering with operating systems. This OS feels like way too many people participated in it. There are too many features. Too many ways to do things. Too much hefty software. Too much irregularity in the design. And too much security. I am rapidly being trained to ignore the constant permission dialogs that pop up every other action. Ok, Windows takes a beating on the security front - but in 20 years of Windows I have not had enough issues to warrant troubling me this much over security. I am so disappointed in Vista! And I can't believe the general public will be able to fathom this thing out. Vive la revolution!!!

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    wgs777

    I agree with tednyhan that Vista has too many features, and too many ways to do things. One of the troubling trends in new Microsoft software (Vista, IE7, and Office 2007) is there is less usable screen space. IE7 and Office 2007 have so many lines of clutter at the top of the screen, that the browser window, or excel spreadsheet has less room to display data, so you have to scroll up and down a lot more. I think the public is initially going to buy Vista, but eventually every one will realize that it just wasn't worth the costs involved (such as buying new hardware). 87% of the World's PC's are currently running Windows XP, partly because of XP's 5 year run. I don't think Microsoft will ever wait 5 years again between OS releases, so I don't think Vista will have enough time to ever have more market share than XP. I'd like to see Google get into the OS business - that would be real competition for Microsoft.

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    tednyhan

    The real question is not whether Vista is better or not it is whether it is better enough for it to be worthwhile switching to it. Google are the most innovative company in the world and there attrempt at an OS would get a cult following of sorts but, let's face it, msft's penetration won't be overturned any time soon. Nothing beats brand power especially among novice users!! BTW msft office 2007 is shockingly presented but i'm sure we'll adjust

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    wgs777

    I hope the following short analogy will convey my impressions of Vista. I currently use Windows XP Professional SP2 on my primary home PC. I recently installed Zone Alarm Pro Firewall and CounterSpy Anti-spyware. Suddenly, my task manager went from its usual 1% CPU utilization to almost 100% very frequently, just because of the overhead of the firewall/anti-spyware programs constantly running and examining every thing I do. My PC felt like the CPU was spending more time on this overhead, then it was spending on the programs I was running. So I uninstalled both of those high overhead programs, and my CPU Utilization went back to its usual 1%. The reason I mention this is that Vista feels the same way. You could be sitting there using Microsoft Excel, and your CPU utilization remains high because of all the new background services running. When I use Vista, I have the feeling that the CPU spends more of its time servicing the operating system than it spends on running my programs.
    A lot of these Vista background programs cannot be turned off (like its indexing service, DRM copy protection, deeply built in WGA constantly calling home to Microsoft, etc).

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    WHAT are you talking about a $2000 tax-where do you get this. I have not heard this.
    As far as slower-nope- but I have 2 very simular pc's one running Vista the other XP.
    Vista boots faster(more tray icons in Vista than XP)
    No noticable differance of speed in programs I use
    Mike

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    Aaron A Baker

    When was the last time you had a good look around?
    Or are you too great for that too? I'm using Vista and will reserve judgment, suffice to say
    A:Toys & Gadgets, Don't impress me
    B: And so far, neither does Vista.
    What I find most deplorable is the obviously childish Flamers like you who can't talk straight. Everything has to be a fight.
    Well go for it, and when you're tired of fighting alone, you can pick up your skateboard and go home, Oh and Take the attitude with you.
    At Tech Republic, We're Pros, in case you hadn't noticed and we know how to treat each other accordingly.
    Regards
    Aaron

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    pgm554

    According to M$,every new release is the "best Windows yet!".

    AND,as alluded to in an earlier post.compared to what?

    Did they compare it to Apple OSx or Linux or Unix?

    Nope,only to prior Windows releases.

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    blair.s

    The mass's will buy it because of the gagets and the marketing. They are tired of looking at the same "XP" screen for six years. If there was proper drivers for XP64, a large number of the design/engineering offices would not be looking at Vista to over come the memory limitation of XP, that is the only reason. Since the anouncement of Vista, development work of XP64 drivers stopped.

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    Tony Hopkinson

    Need a point of reference bfore I can burn you up.

    Advancement from what?

    or Advancement for whom?

    Either or both will do.

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    CharlieSpencer

    He spent the last 20 years at Verizon, a company that didn't exist 20 years ago. I suspect that for most of the last 20 years he was still swimming in his father's prostate.

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    WOW

    Tony Hopkinson

    People have made suggestions that my ego is a tad over inflated.

    I shall simply refer people to him and change mine, to meek and humble. ]:)

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    FilipVR

    It makes you wonder about TechRepublic's policy on assessing items before linking them in their newsletters.

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    Tony Hopkinson

    to be fair, that would be hard to do without a human in the process.

    Notice, he hasn't come back to easily refute anything.

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    Richard81

    Judging by the infantile remarks in his profile I would highly agree with your observations concerning his age...

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    w2ktechman

    1. Training is needed for things that everyone already know how to do!

    2. many drivers are not supported yet, so installing HW will oft. result in a non-useable device.

    3. Most SW that is currently in use, including proprietary company-created SW, is not useable under Vista, which requires re-working useable applications.

    4. many companies do not update their systems regularly enough to use the newest MS OS. machines made 3-5 years ago will be slow at least, or not capable of running Vista.

    5. Bugs, MS has a list of bugs that are not yet fixed, and the list gets bigger everyday.

    6. explain why it is the best OS, other than it is the newest and you like the look of it. How in-depth are you? Your post was generic and crap with absolutely no insight as to anything other than a small rant. Does someone you know work at MS or something so you are taking their word for it? Specify your position in detail if you want others to as well. What makes it magnifiscent? because it is new? Because of Aero? Because you have no clue? or because you are just ignorant of reality?

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    mroseberry

    7. The DRM in Windows Media Player 11 is the worst that M$ has put out yet.

    8. The OS is very expensive (between $200 and $400 depending on the version).

    9. The User Account Control to prevent malware from installing can come up so often that selecting "Allow" may become a reflex action since there is no thought required.

    (Maximum PC / February 2007 / 10 Reasons You Don't Need Vista Today)

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    Tony Hopkinson

    You just know people are going to click yes, and then reel back in horror as their brain catches up with their finger.

    Del *.*

    F%&&&*&&^^%%. t

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    w2ktechman

    Thank You for adding them to the list.

    And to think, these are just some of the main reasons not to move!

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    Ambercroft

    The OS is cheap.
    All you have to do is get it preloaded on the new expensive, top of the line computer you have to buy so it will run. :)

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    Home built pc in 2004 for XP Pro
    1 MSI K8M NEO-V $80
    2 AMD Athlon 2800+ $160
    3 1 gig DDR memory PC3200 $120
    4 eVGA GeForce 5200 256 meg DDR $80
    5 Mid Tower case with 500 watt ps $60
    6 DVD RW+- DL $35
    7 WD 120 gig ata 100 harddrive $80
    total $615
    Runs Vista Home Premium/Ultimate RTM with no problems. All hardware drivers installed from installation-on.
    Top of the line NO Mid range maybe!
    Vista Home Premium will cost $239-$10 less than Windows 95 when I bought it.
    Mike

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    apotheon

    It's crazy that Vista should require all that just to run without problems. I'm using a 1.6GHz P4 with 256MB of RAM and an ATI 9200 with 128MB of video RAM on this FreeBSD system, and it is screaming-fast. While cutting RAM might slow it down a bit, the rest of the specs are well above what FreeBSD needs to provide performance Vista can't touch even with 4GB of RAM on a 3GHz processor with dual-SLI PCIe video.

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    j.g.camp

    wait until you try Ubuntu Linux.

    Vista needs mega amounts of memory to support it's features, you pay for the eye candy in terms of software and hardware. I beta tested RC2 on a system, it took between 300-400 MB of the RAM. That box had only 512 MB, I think if I had 4 GB, I wouldn't care, but that memory is intended to be used for productivity, not eye candy. For that Ubuntu gives me Aplle OS level looks and uses 120-140 MB of RAM on the same box.

    As for 3rd party applications, I get them free. Gimp, the equivalent of Photoshop, with Vista, I'd pay upwards of $ 1,000 for the latest Photoshop. There's also a 3d renderer called Blender. The titles are virtually endless. I have no use for Vista or anything else MS after converting over to Ubuntu. And guess what, in April 2007, I get my 3rd free OS within a year, if I so desire to upgrade. It's free of course, will work, and is stable and secure. I guess I don't need $ 399 for Vista Ultimate. Who knows, why don't I just have a portion of my tax refund go to MS and I can have Vista on layaway ?

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    marjoe2

    Everyone knows Windows Vista is a cheap and poorly implemented clone of Mac OS X Tiger. Tiger is better in every way, and Leopard OS X 10.5 due out soon shows how often a real OS maker releases new versions, and at reasonable prices even for students. There is no way you can say Vista is better than Tiger unless you are on the MS payroll.

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    escinfotech

    Vista the greatest software ever? Please give me a break. If Microshit created it, how can it possibly be superior. I'll take Linux any day thank-you.

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    dawgit

    But first let me step down a little...
    it no work 4 me, me find big rock, sqush bug, vista dead mon.
    There simple. I CAN'T use it. It doesn't meet anyones standards (not yet anyway).
    No reason to expend funds that vcan be better used else-where.
    Any questions? -d

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    wgs777

    Everything I've read about Vista points to incompatibility with hardware and existing software. Vista is a very slow running high overhead operating system. All benchmarks show Vista runs games 15% to 20% slower than XP on high end PC's. XP Pro SP2+ runs fast on my 6 year old son's 366 MHZ PC with 256 MB of Ram. I have a huge library of Windows 98 games (which I purchased in 1999, 2000, and 2001) which work perfectly on Windows XP. None of them run on Vista! Why can't Microsoft make an OS which is compatible with their previous OS's? This points to the poor quality of Vista. I wish Microsoft would have made Vista even more backward compatible than XP with existing hardware and software, and with even less overhead than XP. But Vista is moving in the opposite direction. Also, I don't think any business will ever touch Vista because of its incompatibility issues with existing hardware and software. Businesses nowadays are laying off thousands of works to aggressively cut costs. How can any business justify an expensive hardware/software upgrade to Vista. The only benefit after spending all that money would be incompatibility problems with existing software. Home users will be surprised to find Vista won't run a lot of their software. I honestly believe Vista will be criticized as being the worst operating system ever created (because of its incompatibilities and high overhead). I have respect for those people who want to use Vista, but I'm rushing to buy new PC's while they still come preloaded with XP Pro.

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    Den2010

    I've beta tested four different builds of Vista since last June. I've been running it on a 1.4 GHz Athlon with 1 GB of RAM and an nVidia Geforce 5200 video card with 128 MB RAM. I can run Aero without any limitations, other than speediness.
    What I've found troubling about Vista (currently using Build 5744) is all the changes, small and large, that seem to be more for the sake of change itself than for any good reason. For instance, to start with the most obvious--the Aero interface. Why do we need translucency? What does it add to the user experience in a productivity sense? I've found it rather disconcerting to have a notice pop up from time to time, telling me that this or that application is not compatible with Aero and that the display mode is changing to Basic. When the offending application is closed, then the screen blanks out and returns to the Aero UI. What's up with that? Is this something that has persisted into the RTM version? I've not seen any posts on this behavior, and can't believe that I'm the only person experiencing it.
    Another thing that bugs me is the collection of junk that goes under the name of Windows this and Windows that. I guess maybe it's just me, but I haven't found much use for Microsoft's crippled applications for handling photos and such, when such capable applications are available from third-party vendors (often for free download) as an alternative. My notion of an "operating system" is of a software platform that provides "services" upon which others can develop applications to do useful things, not a collection of software that serves as a one-stop-shop for the original vendor. Now it's true that Microsoft has made available to ISVs the APIs necessary to write products for their various versions of Windows over the years. It's also true that each version of Windows has had more features in it than the previous version, and they're generally not of such a quality that most people would want to use them. I'm thinking of things like Windows Backup, or Outlook Express, or Paintbrush--the list could go on. It's true that novice Windows users will use these trifles, but most people rapidly outgrow their use fairly early on, and want something that is more capable. Wouldn't it make more sense for a group of vendors to come together to offer a "desktop pack," for instance, collecting the best products for basic personal computer use in one place and then making that available to Windows customers, either as a free add-on or as a specially priced product with new copies of Windows? Why does Microsoft include semi-functional versions of software that it does, instead of making use of partners who know better how to do this sort of thing?
    Finally, and most damning, is Vista's DRM components. I've read some rather dire accounts of costs of the implementation of this DRM regime; why would I want to inflict this kind of thing on myself?
    I'll most likely wait until I have no other choice (unless I chuck Windows entirely for some 'nix, at least) before widely installing Vista at home and work. The next year or two should be _very_ interesting.

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    dawgit

    Now that was a good post, I enjoyed reading it. A Thanks to ya. I do believe that it really depends on ones location. Over here in Europe (Germany in my case) we see a different animal altogether. (I did just see Vista Home Priemum to be offered at the local super-market, today. for at least 2x what XP Home is sold for. ?:| ) The problem is that untill we can get our hands on the 'real' Vista (for businesses) no-one knows how it will work. I do see a trend on the part of M$ to try to 'sneek' it in as the platform that runs their Office 2007. I can't say that's to beat the EU-Regulators, but it looks fishy to some of us. They're not really pushing Vista on the business world, but they are their new Office Program, which is built on Vista. (And after you get in the door, all thay want to talk about is Vista, and not what it does, but what it will do.) I would have to say the jurory is still out on this whole mess, but the major concensus is "Why". -d

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    mroseberry

    Does that version of Vista have Media Player 11?

    I read that because the public in Europe is so much more DRM aware than in the USA, M$ will have versions available there without the DRM laden Media Player 11 so people are more likely to buy it than boycott and protest it (which the public should do everywhere there is DRM).
    I wonder if I can get those versions and install them in the USA?

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    dawgit

    That still hasn't been totally decided yet. What's funny is when all the Windoze Media Players (version 11, that is) stoped working at the same time on 31 Dec / 1 Jan. uh, what a stink that caused. And that with the 'New' OS. That did not help M$ at all.

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    Plus it was the tv tuners that quit working as the license on the codecs in RC1 ended.
    SO WHAT. It was a release candidate after all.
    The version you buy January 30th won't do that.
    Mike

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    ?:|

    dawgit

    Hallo, Glad to see you're out and about, outside the other string. (I'm begining to think you and gsaravin are trying to break the TR record)
    Anyway, I can't personally answer that, so I have to go by what I read and hear.
    I don't have the Vista yet to test, due to the fact you have mentioned above. It was Windows Media Player 11, that was in question. (on the Vista Home Priemum OS platform.) TV cards have been talked about, but there are too many Hardware-driver issues at this point, not many work yet. TV, in general is not the issue here as we are DVBT anyway.
    and I sure hope you're right, that the version I might be able to buy EOM won't do that. -d

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    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-6147259.html

    According to this it was tv tuner stops working.
    Plus included on the dvd is more drivers than was included in any other version of Windows.
    The only drivers unavailable for my pc is the printer drivers which are supposed to be made available before launch event.
    Mike

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    tednyhan

    It is difficult to imagine a microsoft product without criminal DRM schemes. Supposedly media player 11 is unusual in this regard but I suspect msft will put their copyright before anyhthing else. I doubt mp 11 has anything remarkably unique and enhancements made are most likely risk-of-lawsuit motivated rather than fear of boycotts or consumer digruntlement. I fear if you do get your hands on it you will be disappointed. It is funny that msft's mp3 offering won't be tied to a particular download store a la iTunes. You're even meant to be able to transfer songs and videos albeit with an automatic expiration after 2 days.
    On Vista, contrast quality of xbox 360 with that of msfts OS. Are we witnessing an IBM behemoth phenomenon within msft? Maybe John Akers 13 autonomous divisions formula would be advisable?

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    mroseberry

    dbarr said
    "Wouldn't it make more sense for a group of vendors to come together to offer a "desktop pack," for instance, collecting the best products for basic personal computer use in one place and then making that available to Windows customers, either as a free add-on or as a specially priced product with new copies of Windows?"

    - I highly recommend TheOpenCD (currently version 4.0) which you can download a free ISO of at "http://www.theopencd.org/Welcome".
    It contains many popular open source programs like OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird, 7-zip, the list goes on (33 in all) and I guarantee that any person that gives it half a chance will find things on it they will want to use.
    It's not on the CD so I also recommend SyncBack (the freeware version) which is at "http://www.2brightsparks.com/downloads.html#freeware". It takes a little getting used to but it works great.

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    in Vista RTM. But so what? In XP there are some software that if the resolution is too high it changes to a resolution that works.
    On DRM what implementations and what costs??
    As far as limited included software-it's good enough for most people but if you need a more rounded implementation, you can buy it. Just like in most any other os.
    Mike

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    1 My Windows 98 games won't play in XP
    2 No drivers for the hardware
    3 incompatibility issues with current hardware/software
    4 too resource hungry
    5 too expensive to upgrade hardware/software for XP
    6 XP too expensive
    HMMMMM same issues that are mentioned by you. How about that.
    Mike

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    gsaravin

    i rest my case.
    mick

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    CharlieSpencer

    At least, he hasn't responded to anyone's points. His profile shows he lobbed a couple of grenades on Tuesday and hasn't been heard from since. I hate a troll who doesn't have the stones to hang around.

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    tednyhan

    Has anyone not noticed that as I live in Tullamore, Ireland I couldn't possibly work for Verizon? I don't think Vista has had a European release as of yet, but I'll stand corrected. I have used a downloadable version(illegal- shocking for most of you corporate types i know)of Vista and its relatively poor I admit but I think y'all deserve it for putting any faith in a monopolised dinosaur. Vista's predecessors crash incessantly, inefficiently utilise memory and if I see another bloody fatal error report giving you the option to inform Microsoft their product is crap I'll crack!I ask you- what did you expect? Do you think Gates de facto retired just before Vista coincidentally? Btw My niece and friends set this up, told me about this and had a great laugh out of "Palmetto"'s post.I work for Kerry group, have a biz/law degree and am not a true techie but unfortunately I am subjected to a host of substandard programmes from msft,

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    w2ktechman

    then you loaded crap SW on it. I have many machines with XP, and they all work fine. I have lots of crap on them as well.
    But if Vista works for you, thats great, although an illegal copy is frowned upon here!

    its not only the OS that causes crashes, it is usually the SW loaded afterwards or a HW problem.

    Since too many spyware/malware/virus are not out for Vista yet, you may just be lucky at the moment.

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    wgs777

    Hi,

    I've been using Windows XP Professional since it first came out in October 2001. Its a rock solid OS, built from the same very stable code base of Windows 2000. In my humble opinion, Windows XP Professional is the best operating system Microsoft will every produce. And my research on the web has uncovered articles that show that 87% of the world's PCs are currently running Windows XP. I don't think Vista will every gain more than 50% market share of the world's PCs. Vista will be lucky if it ever achieves 15%.

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    since Beta1. Both are rock solid.
    Personally I like Vista RTM so much I think that within the next year and half it will beat XP in installed base.
    I have been using Vista Ultimate RTM(the same thing you can buy January 30th) since November of 2006. It is rock solid.
    Mike

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    wgs777

    I respect those of you who want to use Vista. I just hope you're ready to face the fact that a lot of your favorite programs will never work on Vista. For that privilege of saying good-bye to your favorite programs, Microsoft, the Motion Picture Association of America, Intel, AMD, etc will charge a tax of $2,000 on your savings. Did I forget to mention that the new dual core or quad core supercomputer you buy will run slower than an old system running XP due to Vista's exponentially high overhead. Why is Vista so slow and incompatible? Why would anyone want Vista?

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    Tony Hopkinson

    now he works for the Kerry group, so sell that.

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    CharlieSpencer

    Pushing a lawn mower around his neighbors' yards. And he probably does a lousy job.

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    wgs777

    Is tednyhan really Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer?

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    tednyhan

    Microsoft copies Apple so much, you'd expect them to copy OSX's top-notch UNIX security model!!!!! Perhaps the next, post-Vista version of Windows will be based around the Linux security model.obviously Microsoft won't stoop to Apple's level and say something negative about them and yet, their marketshare has never stooped as low as Apple's either.

    "in 2001, OSX came out and 5% of the world was experiencing it."

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    tednyhan

    Windows Vista advancements in security and reliability, along with its cost and operational efficiencies, give you and your users confidence in your company PCs. With Windows Vista, users have clear ways to organize and view their information, which enables them to focus on the most important aspect of their jobs. Windows Vista communication, mobility, and networking features keep users connected to people, information, and devices. Combined, these benefits bring clarity to your world and to the world of your end users.

    These capabilities make Windows Vista a great operating system solution for your company PCs. From the perspective of an IT professional, Windows Vista is easier to deploy, and less expensive to maintain, than any earlier version of Windows. From the perspective of end users, Windows Vista's improved performance and reliability add value by allowing people to be more effective while performing their jobs.

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    tednyhan

    Wow Starts now!!!! Whoooooo!!
    Microsoft will officially launch Windows Vista and Microsoft Office
    2007 System for consumers at a special event in Times Square in New
    York on January 29 called "Wow Starts Now." At the event, Microsoft
    and its partners will promote Vista, Office 2007, and related
    products.

    "On January 29, Microsoft will celebrate the launch of two amazing
    products that represent the culmination of a tremendous team effort,"
    an email message from Microsoft reads. "Millions of people--Microsoft
    employees, developers, valued customers, bloggers, families, media,
    the entire industry--have come together like never before and added
    their own individual imprints to help make Vista and Office 2007 the
    most tested products in Microsoft history."

    The January 29 event apparently includes a lunch reception, then a
    launch celebration. "Our celebration is dedicated to the millions of
    people who helped transform the operating system into a rich
    experience that's more exciting and more powerful than ever before,"
    the email reads.



    I have spent the last weekend trying to acquaint myself with Windows Vista. I very much wanted to like it. I was a super-involved Windows 95 beta tester and always carried the Microsoft message with me - even participating in one of Bill Gates' keynote speeches. But I come away disillusioned. I am a seasoned professional - a sophisticated software developer and I love tinkering with operating systems. This OS feels like way too many people participated in it. There are too many features. Too many ways to do things. Too much hefty software. Too much irregularity in the design. And too much security. I am rapidly being trained to ignore the constant permission dialogs that pop up every other action. Ok, Windows takes a beating on the security front - but in 20 years of Windows I have not had enough issues to warrant troubling me this much over security. I am so disappointed in Vista! And I can't believe the general public will be able to fathom this thing out. Vive la revolution!!!

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    wgs777

    I agree with tednyhan that Vista has too many features, and too many ways to do things. One of the troubling trends in new Microsoft software (Vista, IE7, and Office 2007) is there is less usable screen space. IE7 and Office 2007 have so many lines of clutter at the top of the screen, that the browser window, or excel spreadsheet has less room to display data, so you have to scroll up and down a lot more. I think the public is initially going to buy Vista, but eventually every one will realize that it just wasn't worth the costs involved (such as buying new hardware). 87% of the World's PC's are currently running Windows XP, partly because of XP's 5 year run. I don't think Microsoft will ever wait 5 years again between OS releases, so I don't think Vista will have enough time to ever have more market share than XP. I'd like to see Google get into the OS business - that would be real competition for Microsoft.

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    tednyhan

    The real question is not whether Vista is better or not it is whether it is better enough for it to be worthwhile switching to it. Google are the most innovative company in the world and there attrempt at an OS would get a cult following of sorts but, let's face it, msft's penetration won't be overturned any time soon. Nothing beats brand power especially among novice users!! BTW msft office 2007 is shockingly presented but i'm sure we'll adjust

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    wgs777

    I hope the following short analogy will convey my impressions of Vista. I currently use Windows XP Professional SP2 on my primary home PC. I recently installed Zone Alarm Pro Firewall and CounterSpy Anti-spyware. Suddenly, my task manager went from its usual 1% CPU utilization to almost 100% very frequently, just because of the overhead of the firewall/anti-spyware programs constantly running and examining every thing I do. My PC felt like the CPU was spending more time on this overhead, then it was spending on the programs I was running. So I uninstalled both of those high overhead programs, and my CPU Utilization went back to its usual 1%. The reason I mention this is that Vista feels the same way. You could be sitting there using Microsoft Excel, and your CPU utilization remains high because of all the new background services running. When I use Vista, I have the feeling that the CPU spends more of its time servicing the operating system than it spends on running my programs.
    A lot of these Vista background programs cannot be turned off (like its indexing service, DRM copy protection, deeply built in WGA constantly calling home to Microsoft, etc).

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    WHAT are you talking about a $2000 tax-where do you get this. I have not heard this.
    As far as slower-nope- but I have 2 very simular pc's one running Vista the other XP.
    Vista boots faster(more tray icons in Vista than XP)
    No noticable differance of speed in programs I use
    Mike

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    Aaron A Baker

    When was the last time you had a good look around?
    Or are you too great for that too? I'm using Vista and will reserve judgment, suffice to say
    A:Toys & Gadgets, Don't impress me
    B: And so far, neither does Vista.
    What I find most deplorable is the obviously childish Flamers like you who can't talk straight. Everything has to be a fight.
    Well go for it, and when you're tired of fighting alone, you can pick up your skateboard and go home, Oh and Take the attitude with you.
    At Tech Republic, We're Pros, in case you hadn't noticed and we know how to treat each other accordingly.
    Regards
    Aaron

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    pgm554

    According to M$,every new release is the "best Windows yet!".

    AND,as alluded to in an earlier post.compared to what?

    Did they compare it to Apple OSx or Linux or Unix?

    Nope,only to prior Windows releases.

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    blair.s

    The mass's will buy it because of the gagets and the marketing. They are tired of looking at the same "XP" screen for six years. If there was proper drivers for XP64, a large number of the design/engineering offices would not be looking at Vista to over come the memory limitation of XP, that is the only reason. Since the anouncement of Vista, development work of XP64 drivers stopped.