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  • #2180592

    vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

    Locked

    by gsaravin9 ·

    THE DEATH KNELL OF VISTA HAS ALLREADY BEEN SOUNDED!!!!PROVING I WAS RIGHT ALL ALL ALLONG.To prove i’m right just look at the Amazon prices & you will see xp home $10 dearer than vista home.It has derfintely turned ugly!
    With so many members of the elite!! at tech republic etc giving vista the thumbs up when in fact they were merely speculating.Please look at the evidence don’t take my word & you’ll see i’m right!!

    Well Guys & Gals SORRY to dissapoint you all, recent testing has shown VISTA to be outperformed by XP by a whopping 15%!!A lot of it due to the way the op system is designed & it’s non functioning as an op system.As predicted vain attempts to rewrite source code at the last minute or lack of & reports of positive spin did not help the lame system. Recent release of vista has proven to a lot of people that it is a complete waste of time.VISTA=DUD!Guys & Gals i have been totally vindicated as my thread has tried to tell you the truth.While Other threads are simply speculating at tech republic.
    MS have pretented to show by using terms like vista ready & packing features that people don’t realy need & using catch words like “killer product” with complete abandon when in fact it has been a complete DUD!
    There are no real benefits attached.Compared to xp it is much slower.Heaps of people have tried the os & have gone back to XP just as i had predicted!
    Microsoft also has attempted to cut
    Support Time for Some Vista queries…
    Vista will go the way of Windows ME and I think Microsoft knows it that is why they have allready announced a … Gee, do ya THINK MS knows Vista is a dud? …
    When compared, test results actually show vista to be outperformed by xp.
    Hey guys MS has finally admitted that VISTA IS A complete FAILURE !!!
    Well,Well Heh Heh I have been totally vindicated!!!!!!!!!!!
    Well hell nothing short of total vindication for me ,Bill Gates
    admitting to vista failure & him stepping down due to vista being a DUD!
    You have Acer chief admitting to vista being a failure & refusing to partake of it!
    You also have people like Dell,Hp,& others refusing to use vista due to stability & security issues.Dell vista sales have been drastically curtailed as the company & others do not openly recommend use of vista in new systems.
    Vista critical issues have not been fixed as redmond procrastinates.Sales of vista have been dwindling.
    Vista performance testing is still woefull
    as the”lame” system is licking it’s wounds
    the death knell has allready been sounded!!
    Well ,well we are now in january 2008 &Recent aussie lab testing has confirmed that comparison tests between vista & xp have been shown to be 15 % now it has been checked & can be as bad as 22%.Why a lot of it in the way the source code has been put together like wham bam thankyou maam!!
    Guys i’ts April 1st 2009 we are waiting for
    the next windows win 7 need isay more about vista its all been said bfor.
    ta mick

    ta mick

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    • #3147163

      What beta builds have you tested?

      by georgeou ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      “vista is a crap system why because it is a resource hungry system”

      No, Vista utilizes the hardware you already have more efficiently. The 512 MB minimum is the recommended minimum memory. That extra RAM is used to boost performance with things like SuperFetch but Vista will actually load on much less RAM. Vista is taking advantage of modern systems with 512 MB ram or more and doesn’t just let that RAM sit their idle which disk seeks slow the system down.

      “it crashes moreas to compatibility issues”

      What can I say, it’s called a beta.

      “it is not backward compatible.”

      It’s often the very same complainers complain that Vista didn’t drop legacy support and should have been written from scratch.

      “it has also security holes more than you can poke a stick at.”

      No, it’s much more secure than any other desktop operating system with the new security model.

      “it is much slower in multi tasking than xp”

      No, it’s really not.

      “whereas vista requires basic i gig of ram,100 gig hard drive,dual processor core at least 3 gig processor.”

      No, it doesn’t. But it can exploit modern hardware like never before to deliver a better user experience.

      “compatibility is a big issue.A waste of money why bother as there aren’t too many functional reasons to buy.”

      No, compatibility is as good as it can be. As for a waste of money, that’s for individual users to decide.

      “Obviously therare problems with stability as the kernel is not fully capable of working in the 64 bit chip architecture comfortably.”

      Again, see definition for “beta”. But 64 bit is fully supported and “comfortable”.

      So tell me, what beta builds have you tested? Or are you just speculating?

      • #3146691

        Speculating?

        by mickster269 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        We call it “trolling” around these parts here.

        • #3113745

          vista won’t make the mark

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Speculating?

          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.
          well you got ms stooges like michael hereid
          snr beleiving all is well with vista can’t accept the enevitable that ms has produced a crap system.

        • #3283555

          Im sure you have…

          by pell.luke.h ·

          In reply to vista won’t make the mark

          HeHe…
          I was running beta 2 on my one-year-old laptop for a month as a test. By the way, its only got a 1.5 Celeron m, was running with 348 mg ram, after 128 was split to graphics and a 40 gig hdd. And, by the way, it ran ok. Driver support was good; in fact all drivers not already part of the system were downloaded in my first windows update!
          Of course its still a little shaky, but as everyone else has pointed out, its still only a beta! I see vista as a step forward for Microsoft.

        • #3283546

          no one said you can’t run it at all

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Im sure you have…

          the problem is when combining motherboards ,drivers etc with software etc that it causes problems.i did not say it’s totally
          unusable!
          ta mick

        • #3288415

          a few programming software not supported by vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to no one said you can’t run it at all

          Which Microsoft development environments will be supported in Windows Vista?

          Not the ones you might think.

          SUPPORTED: VB 6 ? ah, my old friend
          NOT SUPPORTED: Visual Studio .Net 2002
          NOT SUPPORTED: Visual Studio .Net 2003
          SUPPORTED, BUT WITH ?COMPATIBILITY ISSUES?: Visual Studio .Net 2005
          Good grief.

          So, forcing the upgrade path for those older .Net versions? Or is it that they just can?t be bothered making it all work?

          Meanwhile, Australian pricing for Vista is out. $751 for Vista Ultimate?! Yowch. Mind you, who really pays for a full version of Windows? Most people would be getting upgrades from previous versions, or OEM copies. Like Office, the full pricing is always exhorbitant.

          ta mick

        • #3288412

          problems abound

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to a few programming software not supported by vista

          There are still plenty of glitches. If you move the data folders out of the user profile and onto a separate partition, for instance, the search index doesn’t get updated, and some programs (including Windows Live Messenger) still look for data in the old locations.
          thanks mick

        • #3228145

          i was right!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Im sure you have…

          yeah i was right!
          ta mick

        • #3287734

          well news for you i was right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Im sure you have…

          i was right all all along.
          Ta mick

        • #2510604

          still right ,you’ll say i’m still wrong

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well news for you i was right

          if you look at what’s happening you’ll agree.

          ta
          m
          i
          c
          k

        • #2484713

          your wrong i have proof i’m right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Im sure you have…

          Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results
          Vista & to XP Professional Compared
          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.
          well you got ms stooges like michael hereid
          snr beleiving all is well with vista can’t accept the enevitable that ms has produced a crap system.

          ta mick

        • #2484998

          well look how wrong you are & i’m right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Im sure you have…

          Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results

          Vista & to XP Professional Compared

          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.

          ta mick

        • #2489935

          there’s heaps of software that was supported under xp no longer supported

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Im sure you have…

          by vista & a plethora of compatibility problems.No one gives a damn at the moment.Heaps of people are stuck with an os
          that does not perform to expectations :result all are going back to xp.
          ta mick

        • #2493605

          why vista is defective by design

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to there’s heaps of software that was supported under xp no longer supported

          Why Vista is defective by design
          14th February 2007 Ashton Mills Internet, Kernel Knowledge, Vista, Windows
          Vista’s DRM features have been drawing ever more criticism, but it’s just the latest step among many that takes liberties out of the hands of users and into the media megacorps. So what are you going to do about it?

          Even Vista is, of course, just the most recent example in a litany of anti-consumer devices designed to protect monopoly distribution for the media cartels and, most certainly, Microsoft at the expense of the you, the customer.

          In his recent column on Forbes, Bruce Schneier covers off all the essential arguments, including Microsoft’s interest in implementing DRM, which I couldn’t have said better myself. In my piece on 10 reasons not to get Vista, some of the comments in response suggested that the point about the inclusion of DRM in Vista was unfair, that Microsoft’s hand was forced by Hollywood. Which is, of course, a gigantic load of wombat poo. As Schneier puts it:

          “It’s all complete nonsense. Microsoft could have easily told the entertainment industry that it was not going to deliberately cripple its operating system, take it or leave it. With 95% of the operating system market, where else would Hollywood go?”

          But the problem didn’t start with Microsoft. Copy protection, and its newer perverted cousin DRM (Digital Rights Management, or more accurately Digital Restrictions Management) has been around for a rather long time now. And it’s not that products shouldn’t be protected, it’s that frequently these protections comes at a cost to the very people who it isn’t intended for — those who legitimately buy the products.

          The problem is that, while piracy is real, Hollywood and ilk make the assumption that everyone in the entire world is guilty until proven innocent. Apparently it’s all too hard to do the right thing, so why not just treat everyone as guilty and be done with it?

          It doesn’t matter if you legitimately purchased your DVD or CD, it doesn’t matter if you wish to format shift this product you own to another device you own, and doesn’t matter that you routinely go out and buy more music and movies to enjoy — you’re a criminal, deal with it.

          As DRM has absolutely no use to the end user, and in fact hinders their experience of a purchase, DRM infused products have been termed ‘Defective by design’. Because lets face it, they are. There’s even a website for it.

          And why should you foot the bill for a copy protection mechanism that doesn’t apply to you? Eric Raymond put it best in the Jargon File with his definition of copy protection:

          “copy protection: n.

          A class of methods for preventing incompetent pirates from stealing software and legitimate customers from using it. Considered silly.”

          Decades from now our children will look back be in awe at the irony this period of human history produced. Lets cover the facts shall we:

          Fact: DRM and copy protection doesn’t stop piracy.
          We’ve had these in place for decades now. I can remember playing games on a Commodore 64 that came with a ‘code wheel’ to prevent anyone without the wheel from playing. Today there is Safedisc, Laserlock, Securom and others to prevent games being copied.

          Yet games are still pirated.

          For DVDs we’ve had CSS and CDs all manner of perverse copy protection systems — one of which could be bypassed with a felt tip pen, while another installed a rootkit (both courtesy of Sony).

          Yet DVDs and CDs are still pirated.

          Even Vista’s DRM has already been broken.

          Fact: DRM and copy protection hinders legitimate users.
          Since DRM and copy protection is applied to the products on sale, naturally it’s the people who buy the products who end up encountering it. Pirates? They rip it out and the pirated versions of software, DVD and music have no usage restrictions, and no hindrance.

          It doesn’t get clearer than this: The only people who experience copy protection are same people who support the product by buying it.

          I can already hear the children who will inherit our legacy laughing.

          Fact: DRM and copy protection has cost billions.
          Between Hollywood, Sony, EMI, and the gaming publishers I can’t imagine the volumes of money sunk into these schemes. Yet piracy still occurs. It doesn’t take a genius to realise this is dead money that — here’s a crazy idea — could have been spent actually producing products that people want to buy, and turn a profit.

          Unfortunately, it also adds to the cost to produce these products, so the end user ultimately has to foot the bill for the paranoia of the media and entertainment megacorps that see the world through pirate-coloured glasses.

          So let’s summarise…
          DRM doesn’t work, it hinders legitimate use, and it has exorbitant costs through which ultimately users foot the bill.

          And we only need to look to current events for yet another example of how pointless and expensive the pursuit of copy protection and DRM really is. As this Boing Boing blog describes, the AACS copy protection system that forms a part of both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray has already been broken (just like CSS before it on DVDs), and puts it succinctly like so:

          “AACS took years to develop, and it has been broken in weeks. The developers spent billions, the hackers spent pennies.”

          So why does the Hollywood mentality still persist?

          Because the industry just doesn?t get the future that’s bearing down on it. The RIAA and MPAA especially are a middleman the world no longer needs, and they are fighting tooth and nail to hang onto the past. As legal, downloadable, music and TV distribution has shown the future is an on-demand online market where content producers sell direct to the consumer. No one needs the MPAA or RIAA anymore, but they don’t want you to know that.

          Finally, all of this could be averted if the flawed reasoning that people are inherently criminals was actually thought about for a picosecond — if the majority of people really were thieves, there isn’t a business on this planet that would still be standing.

          The fact is, while piracy is real (and is real eveywhere — you can bet the local fruit shop loses a few apples a week), that the majority of the human race will buy products rather than steal them, because we all have an understanding that the world just wouldn’t work otherwise.

          Hollywood, for one, wouldn’t have got as big as it has if this wasn’t true. Where did all those profits come from, even in age before digital restrictions where people could still copy VHS tapes? Funny how Hollywood didn’t collapse. Instead, it’s bigger than ever.

          So here’s the message to the big content producers of this world — stop trying to protect your B-grade products from being stolen (have you seen some of the shit movies that make it to DVD?), and start investing money in making A-grade products people want to buy. Economics will do the rest.

          Heck, for a teeny tiny fraction of the millions of dollars wasted that’s been wasted so far, I could give you the next Star Trek franchise.

          And what can you do about it? Be vocal. Let them know. Don’t buy DRM products, and when you see them on the shelves fire off an email telling why you didn’t buy it. Help them to understand that keeping you happy is in the best interests of their profts. When there’s enough noise, change is inevitable.
          ta mick

        • #2510488

          tom s hardware benchmarking supports that vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to why vista is defective by design

          is a complete flop in performance gaming.
          check it out for yourselves.This should put any ideas that ms has given us an improvrd system to xp rather a big bloat.
          ta mick

        • #2510477

          Article frome extreme tech .com confirms that vista is much slower than xp

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Im sure you have…

          xp wins hands down.Confirming all allong what i have said as far as needing to upgrade they recommend a clean install.
          Once again time is on my side all my years of testing etc etc has confirmed that vista is one giant flop!!
          ta mick

        • #2528276

          vista is one giant flop

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Article frome extreme tech .com confirms that vista is much slower than xp

          vista is one giant flop

        • #2528275

          security is not strong enough

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista is one giant flop

          on vista

        • #2528274

          drivers or lack of is big problem

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista is one giant flop

          lack of drivers is aproblem with vista

        • #2532749

          well reflecting now it’s nice to know that

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Im sure you have…

          i was right & all those fence sitters were
          wrong.
          ta mick

        • #2531977

          my opinions are so worthwhile they are being used everywhere

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Im sure you have…

          from yahoo answers to google find it etc.I’m so pleased of the outcome.

        • #2531976

          a 90 day report card shows vista to be

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to my opinions are so worthwhile they are being used everywhere

          a complete failure i was right all allong.
          Where’s that ostrich dope michael hereid jnr now. Head in the sand.

        • #2531975

          from computer world nsw govt considers vista os

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to a 90 day report card shows vista to be

          unsuitable to use in govt day to day business & recommends a stay with xp!!

        • #2531974

          recent posting from zdnet australia confirms the worst

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to a 90 day report card shows vista to be

          most people are not ready for vista.They have to be kidding.
          Here is your Vista, says Microsoft

          Oh well, it is a publicity machine after all.
          Just wait, in 6 months the analysts will have turned on them and will be asking why Vista is such a dud.
          WinXP is good enough for most Windows users out there and that’s how it’ll stay.
          just confirms what adud vista is.

        • #2531973

          recent confirmation about vista security confirms that i was totally right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to my opinions are so worthwhile they are being used everywhere

          about vista security flaws.As a matter of fact xp is more secure than vista.
          Microsoft partner: Vista less secure than XP
          By Tom Espiner, ZDNet UK
          19 March 2007 06:31 AM

          Security company Kaspersky claimed that Vista’s User Account Control (UAC), the system of user privileges that can be used to restrict users’ administrative rights, will be so annoying that users will disable it.

          Natalya Kaspersky, the company’s chief executive, said that without UAC, Vista will be less secure than Windows XP SP2. “There’s a question mark if Vista security has improved, or has really dropped down,” she said to our sister site ZDNet UK at the CeBIT show in Hanover last week.

          Kaspersky provides one of the scanning engines in ForeFront, Microsoft’s business security product.

          Arno Edelmann, business security product manager for Microsoft, said that Kaspersky’s claims were surprising. “We have a thriving community of partners, and Kasperky is one of our best partners,” Edelmann told ZDNet UK. “I find their statements a little strange because they have one of the best insights into Microsoft security products.”

          After being roundly criticised over its security strategy in the past, Microsoft has done a lot of work to improve its approach and has been touting Vista as its most secure operating system. But Kaspersky confirmed that her analysts had found five ways to bypass Vista’s UAC, and that malware writers will find more security holes.

          Kaspersky also added her voice to Symantec and McAfee complaints that PatchGuard, designed to protect the Vista kernel, is hindering security companies’ work.

          “PatchGuard doesn’t allow legitimate security vendors to do what we used to do,” said Kaspersky.

          Symantec has claimed that PatchGuard is hurting security vendors more than it was hurting malware writers. Bruce McCorkendale, a chief engineer at Symantec, said: “There are types of security policies and next-generation security products that can only work through some of the mechanisms that PatchGuard prohibits.”

          Eugene Kaspersky, the company founder, said last Thursday that while vendors had to interact with Vista legitimately, hackers were under no such constraints.

          “Cybercriminals seem not to care about Vista licensing,” said Eugene Kaspersky. “They don’t need to follow regulations or be certified by Microsoft — antivirus vendors do.”
          The fact that ms was spouting news about a killer os that was the most secure system ever is a joke.Ms hoped to thrive on the sheer ignorance of people.
          ta mick

        • #2531972

          i did say that vista was crap & there were more security holes to poke

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to recent confirmation about vista security confirms that i was totally right

          a stick at.

        • #2531969

          proceed with caution is one recommendation if

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to recent confirmation about vista security confirms that i was totally right

          installing vista.Upgrading to Vista? Proceed with caution

          “More so than ever, the operating system is just such a small piece to the user,” says Stan Foster, research fellow and Microsoft specialist at Hewlett-Packard’s service division, which helps HP customers manage rollouts and provides additional services such as managed desktop outsourcing. “It’s the applications that are important to the business people. All these components [Vista, Office 2007, Exchange 2007] have individual benefits, but combined — that’s where the action is.”

          And though it may not simply be a matter of whole-hog deployment of the Microsoft trifecta or nothing at all, from a planning perspective, it’s certainly easier to consider Vista, Office, and Exchange as a holistic combination rather than starting over from scratch each time.

          Both Office 2007 and Exchange 2007 offer significant, new, user-facing features that could well influence management buy-in far more than Aero’s pretty face. Figuring out the right feature combination means charting the best course to ROI, and that, in turn, is the best path to getting management on board — a path that requires identifying the combination of these three platforms that will offer the most to your user set and then building your rollout plan around those features.

          Fortunately, this is one area where Microsoft has done a considerable amount of work — especially from an eat-your-own-dog-food perspective. “For us, deploying Vista definitely meant deploying Office 2007 simultaneously,” says Ron Markezich, vice president of managed solutions at Microsoft, and formerly the company’s CIO. Microsoft at present already has 64,000 Vista desktops deployed and previously had 107,000 Exchange 2007 mailboxes rolled out. Markezich cites the new Windows Imaging capability that’s included with Vista as a key driver for the decision to perform both product upgrades at the same time.

          “It’s just so much easier than with previous imaging packages,” says Chad Lewis, Microsoft’s Vista deployment product lead. “Remember, we don’t just deploy Vista or Office once, like our customers. We’ve had to deploy several builds of both at regular intervals. The ability to keep our WIM [Windows Imaging Format] file library small and easily tailored has made the whole process just so much easier.”

          Microsoft has configured its upgrade process to allow certain users to upgrade their own machines at their own pace when going from Windows XP/Office 2003 to Vista/Office 2007. But once on the new platform, Microsoft uses a forced SMS (Systems Management Server) 2003 upgrade process to make sure that users on Vista stay current with new builds. “The nice thing is that we can use the same WIM library for both operations,” Lewis says.

        • #2531968

          proceed with caution is one recommendation ifers put the bite on vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to recent confirmation about vista security confirms that i was totally right

          Hackers test Vista defences

          Computer hackers are off and running trying to find vulnerabilities in Microsoft’s new Windows Vista operating system, putting to test the software maker’s claim that it is the most secure Windows program ever.

          The new version of Windows, the computer operating system that runs over 95 per cent of the world’s computers, became available to consumers on Tuesday after five years of development and a number of delays to improve security.

          A high-profile new product like Windows Vista draws interest from the entire spectrum of the computer security industry, ranging from hackers trying to exploit a breach for criminal means to researchers looking to make a name for themselves as security experts.

          “For sure, people are hammering away on it,” said Jeff Moss, the organizer of Defcon, the world’s largest hacking convention. “If you are a bad guy and you find a problem, you have a way to spread your malware and spyware.”

          Most security experts see Vista as a more secure operating system than its predecessor, Windows XP, but even Microsoft acknowledges it’s not impenetrable and attackers will undoubtedly look for a way in.

          Attackers can use spyware programs to monitor a computer remotely and collect personal information on a user. They can also control machines remotely to attack websites, send spam email or defraud online advertisers.

          Vista’s comes with built-in anti-spyware software, and new account controls curb the ability of users to unintentionally install harmful programs. The high-end versions come with a feature called BitLocker that encrypts a computer’s hard drive in the case of a lost or stolen machine.

          “We know from the outset that we won’t get the software code 100 percent right. No one does in the entire software industry … but Windows Vista has multiple layers of defence,” said Stephen Toulouse, senior product manager at Microsoft’s trustworthy computing group.

          Windows Vista runs over 50 million lines of software code and Microsoft invested $6 billion to develop the first new operating system since it released Windows XP in October 2001.

          Microsoft’s ability to protect Windows from attackers is seen as a critical litmus test for a product that generated more than $US10 billion in sales last year, especially to large institutional customers who are extra careful.

          Another key element in Microsoft’s plan to combat attacks will be automatic Windows updates sent to Vista users to patch up vulnerabilities and changes to its anti-spyware products.

          In the past, attackers honed in on vulnerabilities in the core Windows operating system, but those types of attacks are being cast aside for attacks from email, instant messaging and applications downloaded from the Web.

          “In the past with XP, they could attack the operating system itself to infect you. Today the OS is stronger but threats can still get on your system,” said Oliver Friedrichs, director of emerging technologies at security software maker Symantec Corp.

          Johannes Ullrich, a cyber security expert at the SANS Institute research group, expects hackers are working furiously to win recognition as the first to find and publicise a security hole in Vista.

          He also cautioned that hackers would still be able to launch attacks by taking advantage of vulnerabilities in Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office, and warned that criminals would hold off on exploiting holes until more users adopt Vista.

          “Being the first to write an exploit for Vista is something a lot of people would like to do,” Ullrich said in a telephone interview. “But ultimately any exploit

        • #2531967

          proceed with caution is one recommendation ifers put the bite on vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to recent confirmation about vista security confirms that i was totally right

          Hackers test Vista defences

          Computer hackers are off and running trying to find vulnerabilities in Microsoft’s new Windows Vista operating system, putting to test the software maker’s claim that it is the most secure Windows program ever.

          The new version of Windows, the computer operating system that runs over 95 per cent of the world’s computers, became available to consumers on Tuesday after five years of development and a number of delays to improve security.

          A high-profile new product like Windows Vista draws interest from the entire spectrum of the computer security industry, ranging from hackers trying to exploit a breach for criminal means to researchers looking to make a name for themselves as security experts.

          “For sure, people are hammering away on it,” said Jeff Moss, the organizer of Defcon, the world’s largest hacking convention. “If you are a bad guy and you find a problem, you have a way to spread your malware and spyware.”

          Most security experts see Vista as a more secure operating system than its predecessor, Windows XP, but even Microsoft acknowledges it’s not impenetrable and attackers will undoubtedly look for a way in.

          Attackers can use spyware programs to monitor a computer remotely and collect personal information on a user. They can also control machines remotely to attack websites, send spam email or defraud online advertisers.

          Vista’s comes with built-in anti-spyware software, and new account controls curb the ability of users to unintentionally install harmful programs. The high-end versions come with a feature called BitLocker that encrypts a computer’s hard drive in the case of a lost or stolen machine.

          “We know from the outset that we won’t get the software code 100 percent right. No one does in the entire software industry … but Windows Vista has multiple layers of defence,” said Stephen Toulouse, senior product manager at Microsoft’s trustworthy computing group.

          Windows Vista runs over 50 million lines of software code and Microsoft invested $6 billion to develop the first new operating system since it released Windows XP in October 2001.

          Microsoft’s ability to protect Windows from attackers is seen as a critical litmus test for a product that generated more than $US10 billion in sales last year, especially to large institutional customers who are extra careful.

          Another key element in Microsoft’s plan to combat attacks will be automatic Windows updates sent to Vista users to patch up vulnerabilities and changes to its anti-spyware products.

          In the past, attackers honed in on vulnerabilities in the core Windows operating system, but those types of attacks are being cast aside for attacks from email, instant messaging and applications downloaded from the Web.

          “In the past with XP, they could attack the operating system itself to infect you. Today the OS is stronger but threats can still get on your system,” said Oliver Friedrichs, director of emerging technologies at security software maker Symantec Corp.

          Johannes Ullrich, a cyber security expert at the SANS Institute research group, expects hackers are working furiously to win recognition as the first to find and publicise a security hole in Vista.

          He also cautioned that hackers would still be able to launch attacks by taking advantage of vulnerabilities in Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office, and warned that criminals would hold off on exploiting holes until more users adopt Vista.

          “Being the first to write an exploit for Vista is something a lot of people would like to do,” Ullrich said in a telephone interview.

        • #2531964

          more vista issues

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to recent confirmation about vista security confirms that i was totally right

          A high-profile new product like Windows Vista draws interest from the entire spectrum of the computer security industry, ranging from hackers trying to exploit a breach for criminal means to researchers looking to make a name for themselves as security experts.

          “For sure, people are hammering away on it,” said Jeff Moss, the organizer of Defcon, the world’s largest hacking convention. “If you are a bad guy and you find a problem, you have a way to spread your malware and spyware.”

          Most security experts see Vista as a more secure operating system than its predecessor, Windows XP, but even Microsoft acknowledges it’s not impenetrable and attackers will undoubtedly look for a way in.

          Attackers can use spyware programs to monitor a computer remotely and collect personal information on a user. They can also control machines remotely to attack websites, send spam email or defraud online advertisers.

          Vista’s comes with built-in anti-spyware software, and new account controls curb the ability of users to unintentionally install harmful programs. The high-end versions come with a feature called BitLocker that encrypts a computer’s hard drive in the case of a lost or stolen machine.

          “We know from the outset that we won’t get the software code 100 percent right. No one does in the entire software industry … but Windows Vista has multiple layers of defence,” said Stephen Toulouse, senior product manager at Microsoft’s trustworthy computing group.

          Windows Vista runs over 50 million lines of software code and Microsoft invested $6 billion to develop the first new operating system since it released Windows XP in October 2001.

          Microsoft’s ability to protect Windows from attackers is seen as a critical litmus test for a product that generated more than $US10 billion in sales last year, especially to large institutional customers who are extra careful.

          Another key element in Microsoft’s plan to combat attacks will be automatic Windows updates sent to Vista users to patch up vulnerabilities and changes to its anti-spyware products.

          In the past, attackers honed in on vulnerabilities in the core Windows operating system, but those types of attacks are being cast aside for attacks from email, instant messaging and applications downloaded from the Web.

          “In the past with XP, they could attack the operating system itself to infect you. Today the OS is stronger but threats can still get on your system,” said Oliver Friedrichs, director of emerging technologies at security software maker Symantec Corp.

          Johannes Ullrich, a cyber security expert at the SANS Institute research group, expects hackers are working furiously to win recognition as the first to find and publicise a security hole in Vista.

          He also cautioned that hackers would still be able to launch attacks by taking advantage of vulnerabilities in Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office, and warned that criminals would hold off on exploiting holes until more users adopt Vista.

          “Being the first to write an exploit for Vista is something a lot of people would like to do,” Ullrich said in a telephone interview.

        • #2531963

          ;

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to recent confirmation about vista security confirms that i was totally right

          ghghgh

        • #2531951

          honey moon is over with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to recent confirmation about vista security confirms that i was totally right

          ms is not coping well with vista problems

        • #2590891

          Falling into the vista trap!!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Im sure you have…

          Falling into the Vista trap
          By Tim Weber
          Business editor, BBC News website

          Microsoft promises to wow people who are upgrading from Windows XP to its new operating system, but with the joys of Windows Vista comes plenty of pain.

          Computers look complicated, but are easy to upgrade

          Vista video roundup

          I know, I know, I’m a sucker for technology.

          The shiny new Vista disk was sitting on my desk, and I just couldn’t resist giving it a try.

          Even though I fell for Vista’s promise – more security and certainly much more fun than tired old Windows XP – I tried not to be stupid.

          I knew my four-year-old PC might have trouble coping with Vista, not least because of its wheezing graphics card.

          When I bought it, my Dell Dimension 8200 was fairly state-of-the-art (a few stats for the experts: Pentium 4 processor running at 2GHz, 384MB of RAM, a 64MB graphics card, and a Creative SB Live audio card).

          Since then I had added memory (to 768MB), a second hard disk, extra USB ports and a Wifi card.

          A blunt message

          But this was probably not enough, so I downloaded Microsoft’s Vista Upgrade Advisor.

          Out with the old, in with the new computer memory

          Microsoft’s message was blunt but useful: Yes, my computer could happily run Vista, but it would need a few crutches and new body parts. Step-by-step instructions told me how to avoid problems:

          Get a new graphics card with at least 128MB memory;
          download new software for the Linksys Wifi network card, to sync my PDA with Outlook and to make good use of my multimedia keyboard;
          download the latest version of my Kaspersky Antivirus software.
          With a few minor exceptions, the rest of my set-up was given a clean bill of health, including my webcam and printer.
          It turned out to be tricky to find the right graphics card. Most shopping websites were useless in providing information on Vista compatibility.
          At least a dozen times, I discovered in the small print on manufacturers’ websites that there were no Vista drivers for that particular piece of hardware. I finally settled on a Nvidia GeForce 6200 with 256MB memory.

          Now here is the dirty little secret of all the expensive PC helpers out there. Upgrading hardware is really easy.

          As long as you make sure the new hardware fits into the slots that come with your computer and does not overburden its power supply, it’s usually just a case of carefully lifting out the old and slotting in the new piece of kit.

          Do check the manual, though, to see whether you need to install the driver software for your new equipment before or after putting it in.

          If you are still worried, go online. You can find plenty of videos and manuals providing step-by-step guides on how to do it.

          Then I followed the task list drawn up by Microsoft. The Upgrade Advisor even provided direct links for downloading new drivers and other software.

          Taking one more precaution, I made a full back-up of all my documents to an external hard drive.

          A good start

          Finally I was ready to go.

          I had read somewhere that a Vista installation would take 20 minutes. Not if you upgrade from XP.

          HAVE YOUR SAY
          Vista looks snazzy, but functionally, there isn’t enough to warrant the price of upgrade yet

          Andrew McKendry, Stockton, UK

          Send us your comments
          After three-and-a-half hours of churning, at long last the Vista logo filled my screen.

          It was the beginning of a day of anguish.

          At first sight, everything had worked fine: All user accounts, complete with documents and software, were present and accounted for.

          Vista looked slick. Its user interface was clear and set-up seemingly easy. The XP gobbledegook had disappeared from dialogue boxes.

          Installing the new wifi driver and anti-virus software was a cinch.

          Software worked straight away – whether it was Microsoft Office, Firefox or my very old copy of Photoshop Elements.

          Feel the pain

          But soon the problems began to mount:

          Where was the internet? I could see my router, but nothing beyond – even after a full day of tinkering with various network wizards. My BBC laptop proved that this was not a problem with my router or ISP.
          Why did my Philips webcam refuse to work? The Upgrade Advisor had explicitly said it would.
          What hardware was responsible for the three driver errors flagged up by Vista? One seemed to be the sound card – oh yes, why did I have no sound? But which mysterious “PCI input device” was lacking a driver? And what was the “unknown device” flagged up by Vista?
          Why did I get a “disk is full” error message every time I tried to install my keyboard’s new Intellitype software? Why did Vista refuse to uninstall the XP-version of Intellitype?
          I knew that Apple had failed to make iTunes Vista-ready, so I didn’t even try.
          But why did Microsoft’s successor of Activesync, called Windows Mobile Device Center, refuse to hook up Outlook to my trusty old Pocket PC?
          Fiddling around with Vista’s settings, I soon found myself deep below its slick interface.

          And the deeper I got, the more the look and jargon of dialogue boxes took me back into the world of XP.

          The Vista interface is slick and easy to use

          It took me one day to get online. The detail is tedious and highly technical: reinstalling drivers and router firmware didn’t work, but after many trial and error tweaks to Vista’s TCP/IP settings, I had internet access.

          Once online, Creative’s website told me that my sound card was a write-off. No Vista support would be forthcoming.

          Grudgingly I ordered a new one. After installing it, the hardware error messages disappeared; the three different errors flagged up by Vista were all triggered by my old sound card.

          I also realised that my computer really needed more memory. Annoyingly, my Dell uses an unusual flavour of memory, called RDRAM, which is rare nowadays.

          Two lost and one successful eBay auctions later, I installed one extra gigabyte of memory.

          So far the upgrade to Vista had cost me about ?130.

          Not cheap, but probably fair value, as it will have extended the life-cycle of my PC by about two years.

          Bearing a grudge against Philips, Dell and Microsoft

          But a few problems refuse to go away and are both expensive and aggravating.

          VISTA PC SPECIFICATIONS
          VISTA CAPABLE
          800MHz processor
          512Mb memory
          DirectX9 capable graphics processor
          PREMIUM READY
          1GHz processor
          1Gb memory
          128Mb graphics memory
          40Gb hard drive
          DVD-ROM
          Internet access

          My Philips ToUCam still doesn’t work, and plenty of angry forum debates are testament to the distinct lack of Vista support provided by Philips.

          Even worse, Vista still refuses to talk to my Dell Axim X5 Pocket PC, which is a mere three-and-a-half years old.

          I like my PDA. It saved my bacon when my laptop died on a reporting trip. Over five days, I filed 14 stories using the Axim and its foldable keyboard.

          I don’t want to buy a new one – at least, not until I find an affordable smart phone that is both slim and has a slide-out keyboard (what’s on the market right now is too bulky for my taste).

          But my Axim uses the Pocket PC 2002 operating system, and Microsoft has decided that Vista will work only with Pocket PC 2003 and higher.

          A top Microsoft executive, who does not want to be quoted by name, tells me that “the refresh rate on [mobile] devices is typically 18 months, from our research – hence the view that most Pocket PC 2002 devices would no longer be in use.

          “Our view (which may be incorrect) is that those people using the latest Desktop [operating system] would potentially also be using later devices as well.”

          Well, I have a surprise for Microsoft: They are wrong, not least judging from the discussions on various forums I’ve been to while hunting for a solution.

          While Microsoft leaves me out in the cold, Dell is no help either.

          Delving into a Dell support forum, I realise the company practises tough love. Very briefly, a couple of years ago, Dell offered X5 customers an upgrade to Pocket PC 2003. Not anymore.

          So I can either throw away my Axim and invest another ?200 or ?300 (for a PDA and webcam), or roll back to XP and wave Vista goodbye.

          To Vista or not to Vista

          I find myself caught in the Vista trap. Quite apart from the pain of having to reinstall XP, I do like Vista.

          It’s slick, it’s fast, it is very user-friendly. I like its applications – for example, Windows Picture Gallery, which could become a serious competitor to my favourite image browser, Faststone.

          However, there are still plenty of wrinkles. The Windows “sidebar” may look nicer than Google desktop, but it crashes regularly and infuriates me because its “gadgets” can not be customised.

          I’ve had two Vista crashes so far – not a blue but a black screen – and that really shouldn’t happen. I can’t even remember my last XP crash.

          And everywhere I look, there are blogs and forums full of people who have problems with software drivers and suffer the poor customer support of the hundreds of hardware and software vendors that make up the Windows ecosystem.

          So would I do it again?

          The answer is no. Do what I originally had planned to do. Wait for half a year until the driver issues are settled and then buy a new PC.

          Once that’s in place, you can upgrade and tinker with your old machine, to give to your parents or children.

          You will probably enjoy Vista, but there’s little reason to do it the hard way.

          Update 20 March 2007:

          After four different attempts to solve the problem with my keyboard’s Intellitype software, a Microsoft engineer sorted the issue by crawling for 75 minutes through my Registry Editor.
          Last night I finally found a driver in an arcane corner of the Philips support website that I could force to work under Vista; the driver installation did not work out of the box, though, and I had to jump through several hoops to force its installation; Philips now say they hope to release a set of Vista drivers in April
          I’ve given up on the crash-prone, resource-hogging Windows sidebar, and I’m back with the Google desktop sidebar.
          Vista still refuses to speak to my handheld computer, and Microsoft says that this won’t change; I now use the Windows XP computer at work to maintain and sync my calendar and address book, which is a huge inconvenience.
          Well at the risk of sounding like a church bell i told you so!
          ta DR Mick

        • #2590886

          BIll hails digital decade

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Falling into the vista trap!!

          Microsoft boss Bill Gates has outlined his vision of the connected future, telling experts in Las Vegas: “The digital decade is happening.”

          Mr Gates was speaking on the eve of the world’s largest hi-tech conference, the Consumer Electronics Show.

          He told delegates that “connected experiences” were now the most important part of new technologies.

          “Young people spend more time with their Windows PC than watching TV,” he said.

          People want to do things with their content across multiple platforms

          Bill Gates

          In a speech with few concrete announcements, Mr Gates outlined how his firm’s latest operating system Vista would be the tool to connect people.

          “People want to do things with their content across multiple platforms,” he said.

          He said the hardware and content had been put in place “and the key thing missing is the connections”.

          As part of the keynote presentation, Mr Gates invited other Microsoft executives on to the stage to explain how products connected people.

          Justin Hutchinson, group product manager, demonstrated a range of new features in Vista, many of which seemed designed to counter arguments from some observers that Apple was the home of creative computing.

          IPTV pledge

          New features unveiled included a document back-up tool called shadow copy, a new DVD photo gallery tool and a piece of software which corrects mistakes in digital photographs.

          Robbie Bach, president of entertainment devices at Microsoft, revealed that the company had sold more than 10.4m Xbox 360s by the end of 2006.

          TOMORROW’S WORLD BLOG

          Bill’s speech talked of connected experiences, but it lacked a bit of zing

          Darren Waters,
          BBC News website tech editor

          Read Darren’s piece in full
          Mr Bach told delegates that Microsoft’s work in developing IPTV (internet protocol TV), which allows programmes to be delivered live or on demand over an internet connection, would soon come to Xbox 360 games consoles.

          By the end of 2007 partner companies will be offering IPTV services to Xbox 360 owners, he said.

          Mr Gates also unveiled a new product in conjunction with HP which lets people store all their data on a central device and access from any number of Windows-connected products, including the Zune portable music player, the Xbox 360, PCs and phones.

          The Windows Home Server is a storage system which can hold more than one terabyte of data.

          Last keynote speech

          Photos, music and videos can be saved to the system and accessed from many other devices in the home and even remotely via the internet.

          HP is launching the first product designed around Windows Home Server software, called the HP Media Smart Server.

          A range of new PCs from third-party companies using Vista were unveiled at the show, including a white, round media centre PC from Sony designed for watching of movies and music playback in the living room and a touch screen PC from HP.

          Mr Gates also confirmed that next year would see his last keynote speech at CES as he steps down as head of Microsoft.

          He said he had offered to come back the following year but that he might “talk more about infectious diseases than software”, referring to his philanthropic work.
          What Bill didn’t refer is how in the last decade ms has really flopped & got things arsedup!! Could spell the deathknell for ms as others may clamber for the op system production.
          tata mick

        • #2590883

          Business suffers with vista problems

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to BIll hails digital decade

          Windows Vista “causes problems through industry” says Tiscali

          Phishing Trap Dear customer, you probably weren’t expecting this

          By INQUIRER staff: Saturday 31 March 2007, 11:39

          A READER HEARD from Tiscali that all may not be rosy for the world+dog because of incompatibilities caused by Vista.
          The firm told its customers… oh to heck, here’s what it said below.

          From noreply@uk.tiscali.com
          Dear Customer,

          Important: Windows Vista and your Tiscali service

          Microsoft have launched a new operating system called Windows Vista. If you are thinking of upgrading your system to Vista, please read the important information below.

          The introduction of Windows Vista has caused some problems throughout the industry. These are due due to incompatibility issues with other software. If you are upgrading to Vista there are scenarios where you may experience problems, such as being unable to connect to the Internet. This is due to incompatibility issues with your existing modem software and Vista.

          Most other ISPs are experiencing the same difficulties, and Tiscali is working hard (along with our modem supplier) to ensure full compatibility with Vista. We expect to have a complete solution in the next few weeks. We suggest you wait until this is ready before purchasing Vista.

          However, if you are still thinking of upgrading your PC to Windows Vista before that time we recommend you click on the link below to install the relevant new drivers for your modem to avoid being disconnected from the Internet.

          Please check your modem to see if it is a SpeedTouch or a Sagem modem, and click the link below to download drivers and get advice on how to install them.

          Get drivers and installation advice

        • #2590877

          vista the sheer arrogance

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to BIll hails digital decade

          Vista – Arrogance & Stupidity

          Microsoft Invades Accounting
          Upgrading to Windows Vista has been banned by the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT), the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), technology giant Texas Instruments and other corporations and government agencies (V1, V10, V11). These organizations are evaluating their options, but overseas it’s turning into a stampede to get out of Microsoft software (V15).

          School districts in the U.S. are starting to move entirely to Linux rather suffer the cost of upgrading Windows. Examples are the Windsor Unified School District in Northern California and the Bexley, Ohio high school district. Schools making this move have been surprised how easy it is and how much money is saved. (V6, V8)

          Leading computer maker HP is reporting “massive deals for Linux desktops” with corporate clients (V4). Runner-up computer maker and long time faithful Microsoft ally Dell has been overwhelmed by demand and has started developing Linux desktop preloads for their notebook and desktop computers (V9).

          Even that great bastion of the status quo, the Wall Street Journal, has published an article under the title Linux Starts to Find Home on Desktops (Business Technology, 13 Mar 2007).

          Small business and consumer demand for computers with Windows XP is very high, but Microsoft has moved swiftly to make sure they can’t get it. No sane person wants Vista, so Microsoft is making sure they have no choice.

          It’s becoming clear people are going to be holding on to their XP machines as long as they can. Chip manufacturers in particular face a damaging glut of memory and CPU chips because the anticipated Vista upgrade demand isn’t materializing. One gigabyte of RAM memory is the practical minimum for Vista (except Home Basic which will run in 500 megabytes).

          What went wrong? Basically, Vista was designed with almost no consideration for the needs of Microsoft’s customers. James Allchin, co-president of Microsoft’s Platform Products and Services Group wrote an internal memo saying that Microsoft had lost touch with customer needs and if he didn’t work there he’d buy an Apple Macintosh (V12). Allchin retired the day Vista shipped.

          Vista and its companion programs, Office 2007 and Internet Explorer 7, offer precious little Windows users want beyond what’s in Windows XP, but plenty they don’t want.

          A confusing new user interface. Vista actually reduces user productivity according to a consulting firm’s study (V7).

          Blamed for so many security problems, Microsoft has placed security responsibility right where it doesn’t belong, squarely on the shoulders of the average user. Confusing security pop-up dialogs are so common users get used to just hitting “Yes” automatically to everything, including malware.

          Most existing software is not compatible with Vista. You will have to purchase upgrades to almost all the software you run and many programs will never be upgraded to Vista.

          It’s an exercise in frustration to try to upgrade an XP computer to Vista. Few Vista drivers are available except for new devices designed for Vista, and manufacturers don’t plan any.

          Even many current printers don’t have Vista drivers, and many never will. Developing Vista drivers and getting them approved by Microsoft is just too expensive.

          Vista is effectively a Windows price increase. Vista Home Basic, shipped with lower cost consumer market computers, is rather minimal, This often forces a $79 upgrade to Home Premium (equivalent to Windows XP Media Center) or Ultimate for $139. Vista’s built-in Anytime Upgrade handles that – have your credit card ready. Actually all versions are on the machine but must be “activated”.

          Vista Activation is a hassle and failure prone, but Microsoft says they’ll be turning the screws down even tighter due to rampant piracy already taking place. This does little harm to the pirates, just to legitimate users (V5).

          Vista Activation, should it fail or be aborted, phones home to Microsoft with enough details to identify your computer and possibly your location (V3).

          Vista’s much ballyhooed security has already been shattered in various ways, and Microsoft’s One Care, intended to protect Vista from malware, has scored at the very bottom in independent tests of anti-malware programs (V2).

          Microsoft’s draconian DRM (Digital Rights Management) features not only interfere with your enjoyment of entertainment media you have purchased, but force you to have a much more powerful and expensive machine just to achieve XP level performance (V14).

          Windows Update is now mandatory. What’s wrong with that? You have no defense against patches that break other stuff. Worse, Microsoft has promised the media moguls they will cripple your computer if any DRM problems are found with your computer’s hardware or drivers – this by Windows Update, of course (V14).

          Microsoft president Steve Ballmer said Vista was so good a service pack would not be needed. Service Pack 1 went into “critical” development even before Vista’s public release at the end of January. There are flaws aplenty.

          Why did they do this? Most new features originally planned for Vista were dropped in favor of one: a draconian DRM (Digital Rights Management) scheme. See my editorial Vista – Broken by Design for the details. All other features were of lower priority and the needs of customers were disregarded if they conflicted with DRM.

          Microsoft hopes to parlay secure DRM into a monopoly on distribution of so called “premium content”. Once they have lured the studios into the deal and established the monopoly they can dictate terms to the studios the way Apple dictated terms to the record companies based on the iPod success, but on a much larger scale.

          Microsoft is depending on the unbounded greed of the media moguls to pull this off, but word is the moguls are starting to wonder if DRM is a good idea after all. It is causing them a lot of trouble, has done nothing to stop piracy, and has caused tremendous ill will and bad publicity.

          Clearly ill will is of no concern to Microsoft. A recent patent filing reveals they have a whole lot more pain and expense planned for you in the future (V13).

          What should Microsoft do? Their most basic mistake is “one size fits all”, holding that an entertainment device is equally suited for business. This is now obviously and painfully false. Microsoft should immediately develop a version of Vista for business with DRM completely stripped out. Perhaps they could disable playing of “premium content” entirely if they could do it cleanly – “premium content” has no place on business computers anyway.

          Will Microsoft do this? No. Instead they will “stay the course”, increasing PR expenditures, working on ways to kill Windows XP to force Vista adoption, and ramping up their misinformation and FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) attacks on Linux to “full rabid” shrillness.

          What should you do? Every business should be taking a long hard look at moving to Linux. Yes, there will be costs involved, and employees will gripe initially, but those who have done this find an overall cost savings.

          eComStation (formerly IBM’s OS/2) is another good alternative for general business, but lacking specialty applications. I find it hard to recommend Apple – applications are limited and it’s a closed proprietary environment run by a person of proven greed. It seems like jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

          I understand that many small businesses are dependent on specialty software the publishers of which support only Windows – even if it’ll actually run on Linux. It’s time to start pressuring them for Linux versions and/or support. Remember, there’s worse to come (V13).

          If you happen to be such a software publisher, it’s time for you to take a good hard look at producing Linux versions yourself. Microsoft has already killed a huge segment of the commercial software industry and you are on their list. Sooner or later it’s your turn.

          – Andrew Grygus

          Additional Reading
          V1 – Information Week – Microsoft Suffers Latest Blow As NIST Bans Windows Vista
          V2 – CNet News – Microsoft’s OneCare antivirus fails another test.
          V3 – Inquirer – Windows piracy hunt tool phones home if aborted.
          V4 – CRN ChannelWeb – HP Sees Huge Linux Desktop Deals.
          V5 – Inquirer – OEM Vista crack gets round ‘phone home’ activation.
          V6 – SearchOpenSource.com – Microsoft Windows ousted at California school district.
          V7 – The Register – Vista makes people less efficient than XP did.
          V8 – DesktopLinux.com – Ohio school district upgrades to Linux, saves $412K.
          V9 – Direct2Dell – Dell to Expand Linux Options.
          V10 – Information Week – FAA May Ditch Microsoft’s Windows Vista And Office For Google And Linux Combo.
          V11 – Information Week – Microsoft Hit By U.S. DOT Ban On Windows Vista, Explorer 7, and Office 2007.
          V12 – Seattle Post-Intelligencer – Jim Allchin’s Mac message: The full text.
          V13 – ars technica – Microsoft files for patent on “modular operating system”.
          V14 – Andrew Grygus – Vista – Broken by Design.
          V15 – silicon.com – French MPs pick Ubuntu for Linux switch.
          V16 – Microsoft – Microsoft Unveils Windows Vista Product Lineup
          Well guys any ideas this basically sums it up
          ta mick

        • #3228146

          i was right wasn’t i?

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista won’t make the mark

          Ms still hasn’t fixed their os.
          it still is crap!
          ta mick

        • #2528273

          it’s now end of march 2007

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i was right wasn’t i?

          ms has not made much of an effort to fix their faulty vista op system.

        • #2528271

          ram chips problem with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to it’s now end of march 2007

          Faulty RAM issues surface in move from XP to Vista
          Serdar Yegulalp, Contributor
          01.30.2007
          Rating: -4.00- (out of 5)

          RSS FEEDS: Expert advice on Windows-based systems and hardware

          With every new iteration of Windows comes?what else??new growing pains.
          When I upgraded from Windows 95 to Windows 2000, hardly any of my existing hardware drivers made the cut; I had to do without a few key pieces of hardware (like my sound card) until the drivers were issued.

          Now some people upgrading from Windows XP to Windows Vista are discovering that a machine that ran XP fine will throw up a Blue Screen of Death in Vista. The code for the BSOD is usually the type that comes up when faulty or cut-rate RAM is installed in the computer.

          If it never happened in XP, why would this happen in Vista? Is Vista doing something differently with memory than XP (aside from needing more of it to install)? The short answer is yes, and the reason for this is somewhat surprising: Vista uses memory more completely than XP.

          Vista uses a memory allocation technique called address space layout randomization as a pre-emptive defense against common exploits such as buffer overruns. Each time the system is booted, the OS loads its code into different segments of memory. This makes it more difficult for an attacker to predict where a given piece of code will be loaded (and thus subvert it). Many of the BSD OSes and some commercial varieties of Linux?Red Hat, for one?have had this feature or a variety of it for a long time.

          This technique is no cure-all (nor is it intended to be one), but it does make it all the more difficult for an attacker to do this sort of thing casually, and it also helps provide a bit more defense for products that Microsoft is not directly responsible for.

          But it means that a machine that ran XP without a problem but has a faulty RAM module somewhere may very well choke under Vista. This should be a sign that it’s time to replace the offending RAM, since it may very well have contributed to silent memory-corruption issues in XP (i.e., the odd random crash or application fault) without you ever knowing about it.

          If you’re running Vista and you encounter something you feel to be a memory problem, there’s a way to test for this in Vista itself. From the Start menu, type mem in the Search box to bring up the Memory Diagnostics Tool. When run, it will reboot your computer and run a series of aggressive tests on your system memory, then report the results back to you. If there’s a problem with a particular memory module, it’s better to know about it and deal with it immediately than to let it linger silently.

          Another memory-testing tool that comes in handy is MemTest86+, a utility which burns to a CD and boots as a standalone program. If you suspect a system has faulty RAM, you can set this up to run overnight and see if it turns anything up. It will run in an infinite loop by default, so you don’t need to do anything except boot it and let it go.

          By the way, regarding ASLR, I should point out that it is only enabled for binaries that are specifically compiled to take advantage of it; Vista’s own system components are of course compiled to do so.

          And on a personal note, I’d like to add that it’s issues like these that have compelled me to spend the extra money on memory (and systems) that support ECC?error checking and correction?as an extra level of defense against generic memory problems.

          ta mick

        • #2528270

          faulty app error with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ram chips problem with vista

          Faulty app Error loading Vista – 02-12-2007, 11:41 AM
          permalink

          ——————————————————————————–

          Monday, February 12, 2007 Application n Error Faulting application
          setup.exe, version 6.0.6000.16386, faulting module kernel32.dll, version
          5.1.2600.2945, fault address 0x00012a5b.

          Hi, the error above is what I receive trying to install Vista….

          Running WindowsSP SP2
          Before I even purchased it I ran the vista upgrade advisor, only one issue
          with my scanner,no biggie.
          So I purchased Vista Home Premium upgrade
          Backed up files I needed
          Cleaned out any malware/adware using 2 different programs (none)
          Ran a complete virus scan (none)
          Deleted temporary files and cookies
          Searched for tmp files and deleted them
          Ran a window washer program
          Reboot

          After reboot I created a new restore point, disabled the virus program, put
          the Vista cd in and got that message. I tried several times in both drive
          bays.

        • #2528266

          more vista problems

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ram chips problem with vista

          The business case against migrating to Vista

          Bernie Klinder, Contributor
          27 Nov 2006 | SearchWinIT.com

          There are many valid business reasons to migrate to Windows Vista, and Microsoft spends a lot of time and effort laying out the rationale for doing so as soon as it is available ? or as soon as humanly possible. What Microsoft won’t proactively say is that there are many legitimate reasons not to jump on the bandwagon and rush to migrate to Vista. In my previous article, The business case for Microsoft Windows Vista, I discussed some of the positive aspects of Vista. In this one, you’ll ..
          don’t look back
          ta mick.

        • #2528265

          more vista problemserrors

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ram chips problem with vista

          The business case against migrating to Vista

          Bernie Klinder, Contributor
          27 Nov 2006 | SearchWinIT.com

          There are many valid business reasons to migrate to Windows Vista, and Microsoft spends a lot of time and effort laying out the rationale for doing so as soon as it is available ? or as soon as humanly possible. What Microsoft won’t proactively say is that there are many legitimate reasons not to jump on the bandwagon and rush to migrate to Vista. In my previous article, The business case for Microsoft Windows Vista, I discussed some of the positive aspects of Vista. In this one, you’ll ..
          don’t look back
          ta mick.

        • #2528263

          more vista problemserrors

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ram chips problem with vista

          Too stupid for a beta OS.

          When you help someone like this they will just be back in a few more
          days with more stupid question.

          This group is being flooded with moronic questions:
          How do I get a product key
          Where do I get a driver for xyz hardware
          Won’t install on my lapotop
          Won’t install on my computer circa 1968
          My crappy video card won’t run aero glass (the sky is falling)
          My crappy sound card doesn’t work
          Can’t figure out how to activate
          Will my 16 bit program from 1992 run on Vista
          How long can I use Vista Beta
          How do I dual boot
          I NEED STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS HOW TO GET XP BACK
          cannot delete windows.old file

          Ignore them, children should only listen to adult conversations, not
          be incouraged to join in.

        • #2528261

          more vista problemserrors

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ram chips problem with vista

          The activation system is faulty. I’m not sure if the build is correct. When I
          >try to activate (Its been 14 days) it gives me the following error:
          >
          >The following information was found for this error:
          >
          >Code:
          > 0xC004E003
          >
          >Description:
          > The software licensing service reported that license evaluation failed.
          >

        • #2528260

          too stupid for comment

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ram chips problem with vista

          You know what? I found a bug that I’ve been trying to fix. I’ve done phone
          activation, changing the product key, asked all my freinds, but yet, the same
          errors,
          code 0xC004E003 and Confirmation ID not valid for the installation ID. Did
          you ever think that its a bug? I was directed here by the msdn online
          concierge!

        • #2528259

          too stupid for comment

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ram chips problem with vista

          You know what? I found a bug that I’ve been trying to fix. I’ve done phone
          When you help someone like this they will just be back in a few more
          > days with more stupid question.
          >
          > This group is being flooded with moronic questions:
          > How do I get a product key
          > Where do I get a driver for xyz hardware
          > Won’t install on my lapotop
          > Won’t install on my computer circa 1968
          > My crappy video card won’t run aero glass (the sky is falling)
          > My crappy sound card doesn’t work
          > Can’t figure out how to activate
          > Will my 16 bit program from 1992 run on Vista
          > How long can I use Vista Beta
          > How do I dual boot
          > I NEED STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS HOW TO GET XP BACK
          > cannot delete windows.old fil

        • #3205008

          still right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista won’t make the mark

          i’m still right no one i’ve met are ready to ditch their op system & vista still sux!
          ta mick

        • #3204912

          Your still wrong

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to still right

          Right now I’m using Vista as my main OS. I also know of a few 100’s thosands of others doing the same thing. Of course you know that as I have told you this before.
          Mike

        • #3140744

          just like giving candy to a child!All you can say is i’m wrong

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Your still wrong

          The simple truth is you are all so easily pleased with the crap that’s spewed from ms.On a recent trip overseas Bill Gates was asked on when will vista be finally released he stated that he did’nt know.The whole thing has been a giant coverup of the major problems ms has been having.At the moment people like me who have taken time to test ms vista crap rc1
          have been ex[periencing countless freezups & equipment malfunctions.This non commital of ms spells disaster & trouble.
          ta mick

        • #3140739

          the fact is that ms admits it got it wrong

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Your still wrong

          I’m sorry, but to defend Microsoft here isn’t right. They’ve acknowledge that they didn’t do things right. They’ve acknowledge that they aren’t where they want to be. VS.NET is plagued with the same slow release problems – though it’s something we’ve been told is going to improve (remember when we didn’t even know there was going to be a major fix to VS 2005/.NET 2.0?)
          Microsoft quotes:

          “… we will never have a gap between Windows releases as long as the one between XP and Windows Vista; count on it.” (http://dotnet.sys-con.com/read/246707.htm)

          “We tried to incubate too many new innovations and integrate them simultaneously, as opposed to letting them bake and then integrating them, which is essentially where we wound up.”

          “We’ll never again do a Windows update this big,”

          (http://www.informationweek.com/software/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=191600952)

          I could find a lot more…especially on blogs.msdn.com or other microsoft-like blogs (mini-microsoft).
          Well guys with ms stooge michael accepts everything that ms gives him without question even in the face that vista is & will be a crap system he can’t accept the inevitable.Michael we know you are a
          stooge for MS$$$$
          ta mick

        • #3139750

          But by reading the whole paragraph instead of just a sentence and putting

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to the fact is that ms admits it got it wrong

          Your view on it always proves you wrong-this is from where you took the statement from
          “Windows Vista, IE 7, Office 2007: These are big releases. You could say in Vista’s case a long time in the making, if you want to, and I think that’s probably a fair statement, a long time in the making, but absolutely a blockbuster release. I think it’s probably important for me to tell our partners to rest assured we will never have a gap between Windows releases as long as the one between XP and Windows Vista; count on it.”

          “I could go through the history of how we got here; just count on it, we will never have this kind of gap again. But what we have is absolutely a phenomenal set of products, and frankly really together the whole is bigger than the sum of the parts.”
          Mick you need to add the whole thing not just what you want to see.
          Ta,Mike

        • #3276217

          mike at the moment current expose is that vista is not strong enough

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to the fact is that ms admits it got it wrong

          to cope with malware.This has been proven in testing labs & out on the field that unlike xp, vista is pretty weak when dealing
          with malware.Whil’st this has been presented to ms many times they have no intention to strenghthen the kernel in time for release as it would waste more time and money.This one has been left on the backburner so to speak.Ms is not consulting with anyone thank you.
          ta mick

        • #3287732

          i was right & you were wrong as you have not done your homework

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Your still wrong

          despite you being a tester you havent tested
          vista like you should.The results speak for themselves evidence that i was right,
          ta mick

        • #2485811

          Not tested right -let’s see

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i was right & you were wrong as you have not done your homework

          Vista runs 24/7-I have recorded tv shows/movies while burning a movie to dvd. Using a word processor and downloading off the net-all at the same time with no problems.
          How’s that for testing. I do this nearly everyday.
          Mike

        • #2485788

          well michael you seem to know evertything vol109

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i was right & you were wrong as you have not done your homework

          current news on vista is thatit is not good enough or better than xp:
          Vista is here!or is it???from RAN ONE BUILDING BETTER BUSINESS VALUE!!!

          The highly anticipated Microsoft Vista has been getting IT professionals, reviewers and computer geeks hot under the collar since it was a mere babe in Microsoft?s womb. After a 5-year development cycle (one of the longest in Windows? 20+ year history), and after many false alarms, Vista has finally arrived − available to businesses on November 30. read on

          Why might you buy?
          Aside from nifty tricks and slick good looks, Vista lists amongst its new benefits for businesses better, more efficient search functionality, connectivity improvements designed for a mobile workforce and reduced deployment/installation costs.

          But the big one, the real draw card for most businesses is likely to be the improved security. The operating system has been designed to shut out spy ware, introducing important changes at the heart of the operating system, as well as to Internet Explorer, and include Windows Defender, an anti-spy ware tool.Security with vista is a huge joke!!

          Reasons to cool your heels
          Foremost, obviously, cost.
          Estimated US pricing information is as follows:

          Windows Vista Home Basic: $199

          Windows Vista Home Premium: $239

          Windows Vista Business: $299

          Windows Vista Ultimate: $399
          too expensive fior an upgrade

          Furthermore almost any major upgrade or new operating system has hardware and software implications, and Vista is no different. Running basic Windows Vista requires a computer with a minimum of a 800MHz processor and 512 MB of system memory. To use Windows Aero, which features a much more sophisticated graphical interface (i.e., it?s a whole lot prettier), will require higher specs again. To access the system?s full range of tools and features will, for most, mean upgrading hardware, raising the upfront Vista total-cost-of-ownership substantially.

          Bugs and compatibility
          During its years of development there has been, and is, ongoing testing. However it is inevitable that there will still be a few bugs here and there to be discovered and eliminated. Whole lot more than meets the eye!!

          For businesses that make a gradual move, hosting both XP and Vista machines, it?s possible there may be interoperability issues that weren?t discovered in the testing. Compatibility is likely to be a serious issue if you are using software that is custom-made or no longer supported. Well i thought compatibility was the biggest issue & it still is!!
          Despite the hype, the impact on businesses will depend largely on the nature of the enterprise and, for the majority, there may be no need for immediate action: delayed action may even be the appropriate response. Whether this is the case or not, it is perhaps a timely point at which to consider how forward?looking and strategic your organization is in terms of emerging technologies and IT generally. Exactly what i have been saying all along!!
          ta mick

        • #2485773

          what testing/eh well michael here it is:

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i was right & you were wrong as you have not done your homework

          Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results
          Vista & to XP Professional Compared
          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.

          ta mick

        • #2484712

          no micheal you wrong as i have the testing on my side

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Your still wrong

          Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results
          Vista & to XP Professional Compared
          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.

          ta ta mick

        • #2484695

          So WHAT???All the bench marks show is XP is only marginally

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to no micheal you wrong as i have the testing on my side

          faster. As I have said before Vista will seem to a non-gamer as running at the same speed. Also some of the benchmarks show Vista as faster than XP.
          Mike

        • #2484694

          So WHAT???All the bench marks show is XP is only marginally

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to no micheal you wrong as i have the testing on my side

          faster than Vista. In fact some of the benchmarks show Vista is faster, but so what-only gamers will really see a differance in speed.
          gsaravin you need another way to show that VIsta is crap-this does not work.
          Mike

        • #2484650

          So Why?

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to no micheal you wrong as i have the testing on my side

          If it appears that there is no great advantage to Vista in speed OR reliability why waste the time or the money to buy one. If XP is stabile and reliable, always working well, of what possible reason could one have of changing what works. As the old saying goes if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

        • #2484649

          So Why?

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to no micheal you wrong as i have the testing on my side

          If it appears that there is no great advantage to Vista in speed OR reliability why waste the time or the money to buy one. If XP is stabile and reliable, always working well, of what possible reason could one have of changing what works. As the old saying goes if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

        • #2485012

          still right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Your still wrong

          Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results

          Vista & to XP Professional Compared

          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.

          yep still right
          mick

        • #2511319

          obviously you have gone into hibernation

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Your still wrong

          thanks for your “continued” contribution.
          Keep up the good work i’m proud of you son.Mustn’t use up the reserve fat we need it for the spring time!
          ta mick

        • #2511027

          you are either wrong or right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Your still wrong

          in the final analisys ms is the one who got it al wrong!
          ta mick
          we don’t get anything but headaches from ms.

        • #2517463

          oj you are wrong (ostrich Jerk)

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Your still wrong

          yes oj you are wrong &don’t know what you are talking about. stick your head in the sand again!!

        • #2517449

          you are using or was using the dud os

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Your still wrong

          & you fail to admit that you have gone back to xp

        • #2517448

          OJ you are using or was using the dud os

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Your still wrong

          & you fail to admit that you have gone back to xp

        • #2532757

          ye gullible people will use any free beta system

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Your still wrong

          do they realise it’s crap that’s another story!
          they probably don’t have the smarts to figure it all out.
          ta mick

        • #2532748

          well oj i’m still right & you are totally wrong

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Your still wrong

          you have done no testing,ie run various benchmark testing etc I have currently found that vista is at least 10% slower than XP.Or xp is faster than vista by 10%%
          do you comprehend that is a waste of time.
          Testing has shown that vista is a poor performer in gaming too.
          ta mick

        • #3321792

          well well what a load of crap vista is

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Your still wrong

          its 22 % slower than xp.

        • #2510471

          taken from anandtech.com this article cofirms

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to still right

          what aflop 64 bit is telling people that it’s ready when it’s not.
          Vista x64

          One of the major changes on paper for Vista is that x64 now becomes an equal platform with the x86 version, as using the Vista compatibility logo on any hardware or software requires that the item in question works under both the x86 and x64 versions, but the reality of the situation is not as rosy. Along with the other limitations of the OEM versions we listed above, only the retail versions of Vista are shipping with x64 and x86 together; the OEM versions are only sold in an either/or fashion: you can either get the x64 or x86 version, but not both at once. It’s possible that this will be trivially easy to work around, however it’s something that should be kept in mind if you’re purchasing an OEM copy.

          As for how well the x64 versions of Vista work, in our first article we called x64 the black sheep of the Vista family, as it was clearly behind the x86 version in terms of compatibility and performance. While we had hoped that Microsoft would remove the gap between the two versions, in our testing this has not completely been the case. Vista x64 is still the product of all the compatibility problems of Vista with all the compatibility problems of a still-young 64-bit platform.

          This is not to say that Vista x64 hasn’t improved; if anything it has improved more between Beta 2 and now than the x86 version did, if only by virtue of having more ground to cover. The performance gap we initially saw between the x86 and x64 versions has dissolved away in most cases, so x64 no longer means taking an immediate performance hit in benchmarks. However we can’t shake the feeling of Vista x64 still being slower, even if the benchmarks don’t show it. We’ve had multiple editors use multiple machines, and general performance in particular just feels slower. At this point we still are unsure why this is, but it’s a very real condition that hurts Vista x64.

          On the positive side, driver support for the x64 version seems to be about as good as the x86 version (although more testing will be required to completely confirm this). The biggest problem as far as support goes is the applications. Not every application is happy working under the Windows-on-Windows (WoW) compatibility environment for 32-bit applications, and this is on top of the applications that don’t work with Vista period. There are very few major applications available with x64 binaries, so without 64-bit applications everything still remains in the 32-bit world for now. Furthermore, as we will also see in our graphics tests, having a 64-bit application doesn’t necessarily mean we won’t see any performance issues.

          At this point Vista x64 is certainly usable if you need it, but we wouldn’t recommend it unless you have a specific reason to go that route (i.e. applications that can use more memory). Except in a few cases where 64-bit code is clearly faster, the primary purpose for Vista x64’s existence is to resolve the problems of 32-bit addressing space, and we’re just not at the point yet where even most enthusiasts are pushing that limit. Once applications begin to push the 2GB addressing space limitation of Win32 (something we expect to hit very soon with games) or total systems need more than 4GB of RAM, then Vista x64 in its current incarnation would be a good choice. In the meantime, Vista x64 shouldn’t be used until it’s needed or SP1 comes out – whichever comes first. The black sheep isn’t ready to rejoin the flock quite yet.
          I don’t think so it needs to get it’s 32 bit in order & maybe later.
          My God what a complete flop.
          ta mick

        • #2510469

          tests confirm that i was right about vista network performance

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to taken from anandtech.com this article cofirms

          once again what a flop:

          Networking Benchmarks

          Just to get a quick idea of what these new features can do, we ran our usual networking benchmark suite on a pair of ASUS P5B-Deluxe motherboards using both the on-board PCI and PCIe connected gigabit network controllers (Marvell 88E8056 and 88E8001 respectively). We used two tests for this, a multiple small file transfer test consisting of about 450 files totaling 600MB, and a large file transfer test consisting of a pair of ISO images totaling 3GB. In order to keep the load on our D-Link Gamer Lounge router consistent, we also had the WMV-HD version of Terminator 3 streaming in the background. We tested Windows XP SP2 for a base score, followed by Vista with Compound TCP switched on and off.

          Unfortunately for Vista, neither test is particularly favorable. Compared to XP when Compound TCP is disabled, Vista is anywhere between 25% and 50% slower than XP in terms of the total time required for these tests. Without the ability to separate Vista’s networking stack from the drivers for our NICs, it’s impossible to tell if this slowdown is the fault of the networking stack being worse for this situation, or if the Vista drivers for this line of Marvell NICs are not quite as tuned, so as a comparison to XP this test is inconclusive. Either way, for this particular setup Vista ends up being slower at file transfers than XP.

          The one bright spot however is that when enabled, Compound TCP is clearly having some effect even on our low-latency network. The 5% or so boost in Vista’s low scores won’t bring it back above XP, but it clearly proves that Compound TCP does have a real-world effect on performance.
          ta mick

        • #2510495

          article confirms vista is a waste at this time

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista won’t make the mark

          Bookmark With Del.icio.us
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          Print This Article Date: January 25, 2007
          Author(s): Rob Williams

          Does performance suck on Vista when compared to XP? That’s what I was set out to find out. I was worried at first, since the performance in Beta 2 was quite bad. While there is indeed a performance decrease, it’s quite minimal as you’ll find out.

          Last summer, I wrote an article entitled “Windows Vista Beta 2 Performance Reports” which attracted a lot of attention. In fact, it proved to be our second most popular article of 2006, so it’s clear that people who are looking to purchase Vista truly care about whether or not they will lose a good deal of performance when making the move.

          Well, that article was more for fun since it was indeed based on a beta operating system. I noted there that when the RTM became available, I would revisit all of the benchmarks mentioned there and come up with a more appropriate conclusion. I received a lot of criticism for that article, but most people didn’t seem to see the “Beta 2” in the title. I was completely aware that the performance seen there did not reflect the actual performance differences in the final release.

          I will admit one thing, the RTM is -far- superior to Beta 2… there is no comparison. I have been using Vista Ultimate RTM full time on my Windows rig for over two months and haven’t run into any serious problems, except for a few of my favorite applications that still do not function. I’ve found the system to be much more stable overall and speedier as well. It still has lingering issues, but I mention most of those in my rant article from this past Tuesday.

          Back to performance. This article will not go into depth like the other one did. In fact, it will be split into two articles. There is a gaming performance article on the way, but we are still awaiting final drivers from NVIDIA before proceeding with it.

          Testing Overview & Methodology

          For our performance testing today, I will be using my Intel dual-core rig. The goal of the article is to show the direct performance decrease you will experience when making the move. Take note though, that the difference on your system may vary from my results, especially if you are using an older machine. I chose to use a “midstream” PC to benchmark with, as most people reading this may have a similar setup. If you use a computer that’s more than 2 years old, with a small GPU or one that has only 1GB of ram, you can expect Vista to not run that seamlessly.

          I will be comparing the performance from a freshly formatted machine with both an XP Professional and Vista Ultimate installation. I will be using a variety of synthetic benchmarks and also real world benchmarks that touch on multi-media tasks. All tests are performed on machines that are -not- altered for the best performance. Normally when we benchmark memory or a CPU, we disable many services and close needless programs before doing so. This will not be done here, as realistically, this is not what people do prior to crunching a video file or playing a game. No post-install third party applications will be left running though… just default system services.

          Testing System
          Intel E6300 Dual Core @ 1.866GHz
          ASUS P5N-E SLI 0307 BIOS
          Corsair 2GB PC2-9136 @ DDR2-1066 4-4-4-12
          ASUS EN7900GT 256MB
          Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB
          Corsair HX620W Power Supply
          Corsair Nautilus 500 Water Cooling
          LG 18x DVD-Burner
          D-Link WiFi Card
          NZXT Apollo Case
          Prior to benchmarking, the system is “cleaned” up. Needless scattered files on the desktop are removed, and post-install applications are closed down if they are running in the background.

          Throughout all of these charts, you will see many deltas. These symbolize the advantage or disadvantage Vista Ultimate has over XP.

          SANDRA 2007

          First up is SANDRA, one of my favorite benchmarks.

          XP Professional
          Sandra Arithmetic
          MIPS: 17116
          MFLOPS: 11906
          Sandra Multi-Media
          Int: 102632
          Float: 55427
          Sandra File Systems
          Avg. Read: 63MB/s
          Latency: 8ms
          Sandra Memory
          Int: 5773
          Float: 5775
          Vista Ultimate
          Sandra Arithmetic
          MIPS: 17037
          MFLOPS: 11905
          Sandra Multi-Media
          Int: 102281
          Float: 55338
          Sandra File Systems
          Avg. Read: 61MB/s
          Latency: 7ms
          Sandra Memory
          Int: 5782
          Float: 5717
          .
          Delta
          – 0.46%
          – 0.008%
          Delta
          – 0.34%
          – 0.16%
          Delta
          – 3.28%
          + 14.8%
          Delta
          + 0.16%
          – 0.66%

          There’s very little difference here so far… less than 1% all around.

          Cinebench, Sciencemark, 3D Mark 06

          The same goes for here with Cinebench, but I started to see even larger differences with Sciencemark where the delta was closer to 3.5%. Super Pi also proved 19 seconds slower under Vista.

          XP Professional
          Cinebench 2003
          Single Thread: 312
          Multi-Thread: 581
          Sciencemark 2 (Lower is Better)
          Mol Dyn: 83.72s
          Cipher: 15.39s
          3D Mark 06
          4907
          Super Pi
          32 Million: 25m 0s
          Vista Ultimate
          Cinebench 2003
          Single Thread: 312
          Multi-Thread: 579
          Sciencemark 2 (Lower is Better)
          Mol Dyn: 86.58s
          Cipher: 16.06s
          3D Mark 06
          4693
          Super Pi
          32 Million: 25m 19s
          .
          Delta
          – 0.00%
          – 0.34%
          Delta
          – 3.41%
          – 4.35%
          Delta
          – 4.56%
          Delta
          – 1.27%

          The 3D Mark score is about 300 points lower on Vista, but please don’t take that result too seriously at this point. NVIDIA is working around the clock on final Vista drivers, so the performance may improve when they are finally out the door.

          Hard Drive Benchmarks

          Overall with the disk access benchmarks, the only tests that had a rather large differences was with the burst and minimum speed tests. In both HD Tach and HD Tune, the Avg. MB/s proved no different at all, which is good to see.

          XP Professional
          HD Tach
          Burst Read: 134.5MB/s
          Avg. Read: 66.2MB/s
          Latency: 13.4ms
          HD Tune
          Min: 30.6MB/s
          Avg: 62.3MB/s
          Max: 76.3MB/s
          Latency: 13.4ms
          CPU Usage: 2.6%
          Vista Ultimate
          HD Tach
          Burst Read: 120.7MB/s
          Avg. Read: 66.2MB/s
          Latency: 13.4ms
          HD Tune
          Min: 36.6MB/s
          Avg: 62.3MB/s
          Max: 76.5MB/s
          Latency: 13.5ms
          CPU Usage: 7.7%
          .
          Delta
          – 11.43%
          – 0.00%
          – 0.00%
          Delta
          + 19.6%
          – 0.00%
          + 0.26%
          – 0.74%
          N/A

          The only thing that stands out to me here is the fact that HD Tune required over 5% more CPU power during usage. This could be the result of Vista forcing a Windows XP program to function. By default, it did not function in Vista, but adjusting the compatibility fixed everything.

          Real World Benchmarks

          For some light real world testing, I chose a few programs to conduct multi-media recoding. For Sony Vegas, I took a 50MB .divx file, recoded it to a high-definition profile and added a watermark. For Nero Record, I took a DVD from Volume 4 of the Family Guy collection and recoded it to fit on a backup sized DVD (4.5GB). Lastly, for LAME, I first ripped Voodoo & Serano: Cold Blood to a single .WAV file. Then I ran than through a “lame -b 320 vns.wav” command.

          XP Professional
          Multi-Media Recode (Lower is Better)
          Sony Vegas: 18m 38s
          Nero Recode: 9m 56s
          LAME Recode: 3m 59s
          Vista Ultimate
          Multi-Media Recode (Lower is Better)
          Sony Vegas: 18m 21s
          Nero Recode: 10m 31s
          LAME Recode: 4m 07s
          .
          Delta
          + 1.5%
          – 5.87%
          – 3.34%

          Interestingly enough, Vegas proved a touch better under Vista, but it fell short with the other two tests.

          Final Thoughts

          I don’t necessarily recommend Vista to anyone at this point in time, simply because it’s not needed. In the two months that I’ve been using it full time on my Windows machine, I’ve run into too many weird bugs that I would have liked to have avoided. This ranges from applications not working, quirky UI glitches or hardware drivers not working as well as they should.

          That aside though, it’s no secret that many out there are dying to install it on their system, which is fine. As we have seen from the performance results above, should you stick with XP to save on performance? Hardly… there was not much of a difference between XP and Vista overall, I’m actually quite impressed.

          As I mentioned earlier though, if you run an older machine, you probably will see a greater slowdown than I did. My test rig consisted of a nice processor, midstream GPU and 2GB of ram. If you run a last-gen CPU, low-end GPU and 1GB of ram, chances are good that you will have a sluggish running system.

          What should you take away from this article? The fact that Vista actually isn’t -that- bad performance wise, if you have a decent machine. It’s leaps and bounds above the performance I saw in Beta 2, so I have no major complaints. In the months to come, companies should be continually releasing more Vista-friendly drivers, so the stability/performance side of things should get even better.I thought it was better??
          ta mick

        • #2510494

          Tom’s hardware.com support what i have stated all

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to article confirms vista is a waste at this time

          Windows XP vs. Vista: The Benchmark Rundown
          Patrick Schmid, Achim Roos
          January 29, 2007 09:16

          Is Windows Vista Faster Than XP?
          Our Windows Vista coverage began with a hands-on diary by MobilityGuru’s Barry Gerber, followed by an assessment of gameplay under Windows Vista by graphics presidente Darren Polkowski, as well as a complete feature rundown of Vista. Barry took the new operating system and its look & feel with a grain of salt, while Darren was disappointed because OpenGL support was dropped along the way, meaning that Windows Vista currently offers horrible performance for graphics applications utilizing the Open Graphics Library.

          We are sure that mainstream users will appreciate the improved usability of Windows Vista, and the average office/multimedia user will likely never notice the lack of OpenGL. However, a chapter on the overall performance of Windows Vista requires more dedication. In particular, two things require an in-depth analysis:

          Basic Windows Vista Performance
          How does Windows Vista perform compared to Windows XP? Will applications execute equally quickly, or will they even run slower due to the new features and the AeroGlass interface?
          Windows Vista Performance Enhancements
          With SuperFetch and ReadyBoost, Windows Vista introduces two features to make use of today’s technology in order to improve the user experience. This means that more application data should be actively cached into all available memory (SuperFetch), whether that is physical RAM or a USB Flash memory device (ReadyBoost). Microsoft’s goal was to create balanced performance by removing delays in everyday work.
          This article deals with basic application execution under Windows Vista Enterprise, which is representative of the other editions. We put together a high-end test system and performed a comprehensive benchmark session both with Windows XP Professional and with Windows Vista Enterprise to see if there are differences. And indeed, we found that there are some…

          Software And Vista
          Although the main Windows Vista core has undergone lot of modifications, many of your applications will work with Vista. There is, however, no guarantee. You should definitely try any essential software on Windows before you upgrade.

          Process scheduling and thread pooling have been improved in Vista; a deadlock protection mechanism and hardware partitioning for virtualization support were added, together with many more features.

          We tried lots of different programs under Windows Vista Enterprise, and came up with a list of software that definitely works.

          Games
          Call of Duty 2
          Far Cry
          F.E.A.R.
          Unreal Tournament 2004
          Applications
          Adobe Acrobat 8
          Adobe Photoshop CS2
          Autodesk 3DSMax 8.0
          AutoGK 2.4
          Hamachi
          KeePass 1.06
          LAME MP3 Encoder
          MainConcept H.264 Encoder
          Miranda Messager 0.5.1
          Microsoft Office 2003
          Microsoft Office System 2007
          Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1
          Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5.0.9
          Nokia PC Suite 6.82.22.0
          Ogg Vorbis 1.1.2
          OpenOffice 2.1
          Picasa 2
          Putty
          Skype 2.5.x and 3.0
          SmartFTP 2.0
          Sungard Adaptive Credit Risk Calculation 3.0
          SonyEricsson PC Suite 1.30.82
          SQLyog 5.22
          Symantec AntiVirus 10.2.0.224
          UltraEdit 32 12.10
          WinRAR 3.70
          XviD 1.2.0
          Benchmarks
          3DMark 06
          Cinebench
          PCMark05 Pro
          SiSoft Sandra 2007
          SPECviewperf 9.03
          In other cases there were some issues.

          We found Vista updates for the Futuremark benchmark programs 3DMark and PCMark, as well as the popular data compression tool WinRAR. Lots of video-related software such as DivX could no longer be installed; new versions are required. The popular audio player WinAMP 5.32 throws up an error at startup, yet it works properly. Quake IV can still be executed, but the installation program did not work. Applications that run their own memory management won’t benefit from Vista’s SuperFetch function. For example, Adobe Photoshop takes care of creating a temporary work file every time it launches – Vista has no access to this process and cannot speed it up.

          There are some types of software that you should only use if they have been specifically designed for Windows Vista: firewalls, anti-spyware and anti-virus software needs to be Vista-Ready.
          ta mick

        • #2532759

          well definitely right there all along!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista won’t make the mark

          with so many people staying with xp you would wonder what all the who ha with vista was about.
          But if anything like the response in this thread with lame responses from people like
          oj (ostrich jerk) michael.& poor responses like Hal 9000 & then going into hibernation.
          I would have expected a more healthy debate.
          I just rely on the testing of what i have done & others which is in agreement with my opinion.
          If anyone likes to make a healthy response rather than poo poo this thread.
          Well i have been right all allong!
          ta mick

        • #2595217

          well this proves if anything that i was right!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista won’t make the mark

          Microsoft says ‘EU version’ of Windows Vista a dudBy Paul McDougall 22 May 2007 14:12 AEST Operating Systems A A A

          Company officials say no PC manufacturers have chosen to license the special editions of its operating systems, which are available only in Europe, that lack the Windows Media Player media playback software.

          A senior Microsoft official said the company has had few takers for modified versions of its Windows operating systems built to conform to European competition requirements. David Heiner, Microsoft’s deputy general counsel, said “not a single PC manufacturer has chosen to license” the special editions of its operating systems, which are available only in Europe.

          The software, Windows XP N and Windows Vista N, lacks the Windows Media Player media playback software, which ordinarily is integrated into Microsoft’s operating systems.

          EU regulators ordered Microsoft to unbundle Media Player from some versions of Windows available for sale in Europe after charging that the bundling gave the company an unfair advantage over media player products created by third-party developers. advertisement

          Microsoft, however, was allowed to offer standard editions of Windows for sale in Europe alongside the N editions, allowing consumers to choose between the two.

          Speaking in March to officials at the US Federal Trade Commission, Heiner said European consumers have opted en masse for the full versions of Windows. The N versions, he said, “sit on the shelf.”

          “PC manufacturers and consumers in Europe can now choose to get Windows with or without its media playback functionality. They have chosen the full-featured version of Windows, as might be expected,” said Heiner, according to a transcript of his remarks obtained by InformationWeek.

          Heiner was speaking to FTC officials to urge them to adopt anti-monopoly measures that promote competition rather than restrict consumer choice.

          He said Microsoft’s consent decree with monopoly watchdogs at the Department of Justice is a good example of the former. As a result of the deal, he said, “new Windows PCs come loaded up with software from Microsoft’s competitors” without limiting consumer access to Microsoft’s own products.” By contrast, the EU’s decision to order Microsoft to strip out its own media player technology from some versions of Windows has hurt both Microsoft and its European customers, Heiner said.

          “Costs have been imposed, but there is little apparent benefit for anyone,” he said.

          Microsoft continues to butt heads with European regulators over the prices it charges to competitors for interoperability protocols for file and print servers.

          Microsoft last month dodged – at least temporarily – European Union fines of up to US$4 million (A$4.8 million) per day by submitting an 11th-hour response to allegations that it continues to overcharge rivals for the tools they need to make their products compatible with the Windows operating system.

          The company told the EU that it needs “greater clarity on what prices the commission wants us to charge” and called for more talks on the issue, according to a statement released last month by the software maker.

          In his comments to the FTC, Heiner blasted the EU for inserting itself into talks between Microsoft and third-party product manufacturers.

          “Whether firms choose to take a license, and what kind of products they build with those licenses,” Heiner said, “is of course entirely up to them and outside the control of either Microsoft or any antitrust agency.”
          I know i’m right because i spoke the truth!

        • #2595186

          vista banned

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well this proves if anything that i was right!

          DOT bans Vista upgrades By Staff writers, TechWeb 5 March 2007 08:06 AEST Operating Systems A A A

          CIO cites cost and compatibility issues.

          Citing concerns about cost and system compatibility, the CIO of the US federal Department of Transportation has put a hold on DOT upgrades to Microsoft’s Windows Vista operating system, Internet Explorer 7, and Office 2007.

          The agency has an “indefinite moratorium” on upgrades because “there appears to be no compelling technical or business case for upgrading,” CIO Daniel Mintz says in a 19 January staff memo obtained by InformationWeek. In addition, there are “specific reasons not to upgrade,” he says, referring to compatibility with software apps, upgrade costs, and an upcoming move to a new headquarters. The ban applies to 15,000 DOT computer users who now use Windows XP Professional. The memo indicates that a similar ban is in effect at the Federal Aviation Administration, which has 45,000 desktop users.

        • #2595173

          ms has stuffed it again

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista banned

          Microsoft: OneCare should not have been rolled out
          Tom Espiner, ZDNet UK

          17 March 2007 09:07 AM

          Microsoft has said that its Live OneCare security suite has “a problem” with the underlying antivirus code, and admitted that security is just “a little part of Microsoft”.

          Speaking to our sister site ZDNet UK exclusively at the CeBIT show in Hanover, a senior manager for the software giant said that its consumer security product is far from perfect and that pieces are actually “missing”.

          OneCare has been dogged by controversy since its launch last May. Signs that the software was not up to scratch came earlier this month when OneCare failed to achieve certification in an independent test of security products. Shortly before that, it emerged that the product did not sufficiently protect users of Microsoft’s Vista operating system against malware.

          But the latest and most serious problems arose in March this year after the product mistakenly quarantined and even deleted Outlook and Outlook Express files for the second time.

          Microsoft apologised for the problems and has issued an update that has now been automatically pushed out to OneCare customers, to halt the false positive identification as malware of Outlook .pst and Outlook Express .dbx files.

          Asked about these problems, Arno Edelmann, Microsoft’s European business security product manager, told ZDNet UK last week that the code itself has pieces missing.

          “Usually Microsoft doesn’t develop products, we buy products. It’s not a bad product, but bits and pieces are missing,” said Edelmann.

          The problem lies with a core technology of OneCare, the GeCAD antivirus code, and how it interacts with Microsoft mailservers. According to Edelmann, the Microsoft updates and mailserver infrastructure do not harmonise.

          “It’s a problem with the updates, and it’s a problem with the implementation,” said Edelmann.

          If mail is received from a server running Exchange 2007, users are unlikely to encounter problems. However, if mail is received from servers running Exchange 2000 or 2003, the likelihood of quarantining is high, said Edelmann.

          “OneCare is a new product — they shouldn’t have rolled it out when they did, but they’re fixing the problems now,” said Edelmann.

          According to the security manager, security is only a small part of what Microsoft does.

          “Microsoft is not a security company. Security is important, but it’s just a little part of Microsoft,” said Edelmann.

          Security vendor Kaspersky said that it was not acceptable for two Microsoft products — such as OneCare and Exchange 2007 — to be incompatible, especially as Microsoft has market dominance.

          “All in all it’s a bad thing,” said Eugene Kaspersky, the founder of the company. “It’s not acceptable for Microsoft products to do that. Microsoft dominates the market. If they do that it creates a big noise, many affected people, and happy lawyers.”

          This is not the first time Microsoft has had a problem with OneCare and Outlook. In January OneCare also erroneously quarantined Outlook files. However, Kaspersky said that although the problems then and now were the same, the cause of the problems in January was different.

          “They fixed the first false positive, and now they have the next one,” said Kaspersky.

          Kaspersky said that false positives are not just a problem for Microsoft, but for the whole antivirus industry. He said that about one percent of Kaspersky records were false positives, but they were almost totally stopped by the company’s test robots. He added, however, that sometimes false positives are released by Kaspersky

        • #2595162

          spanner in the works

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms has stuffed it again

          A spanner in search engines
          SEARCH advertisers will need to quickly find a way around Microsoft’s recently launched Vista if they don’t want their messages being bypassed.

          Vista’s inbuilt search engine, with its ability to cut out the likes of Google and Yahoo, could be a serious problem, the head of internet search advertising specialist DoubleClick, Rick Bruner, told yesterday’s ad:tech conference in Sydney.

          Mr Bruner also said it was still difficult to read what impact the emergence of new operating systems, social networking and online videos would have on internet advertising.

          “It is too early to say whether these things are going to be an interesting development for the future or if they are just a passing fad and are going to go away,” he said.

          “I think some aspects may be faddish, but for example consumer generated advertising is something some advertisers have reached out for in the last year, getting consumers to create ads for them. It was fun and funky, but I don’t see it being around in five years

        • #2595160

          pirates offer vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms has stuffed it again

          Pirates quick to offer Vista
          AS MICROSOFT kicked off the global launch of its long-awaited Windows Vista, the software giant’s new operating system also hit the streets of China – in pirated form.

          In an electronic market in the southern Chinese city of Shenzhen, scores of sellers were offering the brand new software for as little as 10 yuan ($1.66), along with Microsoft Office, anti-virus software and others.

          The sellers said Vista was available several weeks before its launch, although they would not say how they got hold of the version.

          Described as the “official version of the new generation operating system” on its cover, the pirated copy offered an identification code at the back of the disk for downloading the software

        • #2595157

          big problems

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms has stuffed it again

          Apple?s iBook G4 may have ?serious consequences worldwide? says Danish CCB
          Written by Darren Yates
          Tuesday, 08 May 2007

          Danish Consumer Complaints Board finds power failures due to design fault, orders Apple to correct. More to come worldwide?

          After discovering faulty solder joints within Apple?s iBook G4 notebook computers, the Danish Consumer Complaints Board says the discovery of the design fault could have serious consequences for Apple worldwide.

          The problem started when several Danish users of the iBook G4 had made complaints, finding the screen going blank after little more than a year?s use.

          While processing the complaints, Danish researchers had found iBook G4 notebooks around the world suffering the same problem. The Danish CCB?s suspicions were aroused at this point and decided that these notebooks deserved some in-depth examination.

          During that examination by independent electronics lab, Delta, they discovered that several solder joints around a voltage regulator (a device designed to set a particular voltage) were of poor enough quality to deteriorate over time and cause the fault.

          “It is a bit like a person dying a little bit every time he breathes because the cells break down. In the same way, the computer dies a little every time you turn it on and off”, says Frederik Boesgaard Navne, the Consumer Complaints Board lawyer who has been dealing with these cases.

          The faults were discovered using a combination of microscopy and X-ray microscopy around various components and solder joints.

          Consumers around the world had developed creative solutions such as placing a cardboard tubing or ?shim? around certain parts of the notebook (http://www.coreyarnold.org/ibook/). While this process is certainly not recommended, it is often a commonly used solution to similar problems where solder joints are the fault.

          Apple had continued to deny that any problems were the result of design faults and that the notebooks in question were outside of Apple?s one-year warranty and were therefore not covered anyway.

          However, armed with the new evidence, the CCB has ordered Apple to make repairs to all Danish iBook G4 notebooks exhibiting this fault.

          The CCB has also not been backward in coming forward to attack Apple?s stance on the problem concluding the initial part of its statement with: ?The question now is whether Apple is going to go on denying that there is a design fault in the same type of computer in the world outside Denmark?s borders.?

          For now, no other consumer complaints authority around the world has issued any statements regarding the iBook G4 so it will be a wait-and-see case for many owners as government consumer complaints bodies either look over the Danish results, wait for consumer complaints to start rolling in or for Apple to do the right thing and acknowledge the problem and order a product recall.

          If your iBook G4 is suffering from screen blank/power failure problems, it?s important you don?t open it up and try some of the remedies being suggested on the internet, even if the warranty period has expired. Many of these solutions actually make the problem worse by flexing the notebook?s circuit board.

          Your best option is to contact Apple in your country or failing that, contact the official consumer complaints body in your country.

        • #3167539

          i have tested vista beta

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Speculating?

          vista beta whil’st it’s beta leaves a lot to be desired but in the actual testing it leaves a lot to be desired.with hardware functioning & software.there are problems

        • #3167499

          What kind of testing have you done?

          by florida_rob ·

          In reply to i have tested vista beta

          I have tested the last 2 builds at our firm and found that it runs better, smoother, and faster than XP. I admit it doesn’t like some 6 year old PCs, but then again neither do I. What products have you tested it against?

          Also what universe do you live in when you say users are going to give up on Microsoft’s OS? Maybe the few IT-savvy geeks (like me) will move towards Linux or alternatives but the average Joe User is still running ME or XP and is very satisfied.

          If you don’t like MSFT, that’s fine. You’re entitled to your opinions- but before you predict the demise of a market-dominant product in the real world you need to offer a viable alternative– which currently doesn’t exist. Yes, I know Macs are better… Yes, I know Linux is more stable.. but until Macs break through the $600 price point they won’t take on any major market share, and until Linux looks and operates like Windows with full compatibility it won’t either. Criticize all you want, but the market has spoken and it likes Windows- and spare me the conspiracy theories. I have 2 words for you: Xerox and Polaroid. If the market didn’t like it, it wouldn’t be there. Fast food burgers are horrible for you and there ARE alternatives available, yet people still buy them by the millions– so they must be offering value to the public, much like Microsoft is doing. When the cost outweighs the benefits, and that day will likely come as it did for US Automakers, electronics manufacturers, etc. but it’s not here yet.

          Again, you are entitled to your opinions.. but they would hold much more water if backed up with facts. What products aren’t compatible? What drivers aren’t available (and that is more vendor’s faults than MSFT’s- it is THEY who create device drivers for their products)?

          It requires more memory? So what? Are you still planning on running a box with less than 1GB? My daughter’s PC has that much and all she does is surf the internet and type reports for school (on OpenOffice, I might add).

          I understand the animosity that exists in the world towards Microsoft- and some of it may be justified- but any well-written critique should include specific facts to support your thesis.

        • #3167289

          i just have major reservations

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What kind of testing have you done?

          whils’t a lot of people have minor reservations i have major ones.I don’t think the current hardware is capable of handling the full capabilities as people will make do with what they got.If you must know i don’t prefer windows based systems.i prefer a linux but i woul like unix the most as it is the stablest of all.
          i’m not anti this or anti that i’m trying to stimulate a bit of discussion.There is no wrong or right answer it all depends on the circumstances.
          i have tested every beta i know it will take time
          i hope they fix things on time rather than wait later.all the best

        • #3284751

          Reservations

          by mark ·

          In reply to i just have major reservations

          Then don’t buy it when it’s released. I would think someone with a “masters in computer science” would be able to write a cogent, factual statement as opposed to “Well, I just don’t like it nyaaa nyaaa nyaaa…”

        • #3284692

          You show your abject ignorance

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Reservations

          If you bother to read ALL i have written you will see
          that i’m qualified in Masters in computing plus I’m a PHD in the field of operating systems. My experience in IT has been 30 years.I was playing with punch cards when you were in nappies!.Also you suffer from selective seeing as you fail to understand that vista is totally crap as most of the good things of vista have been canned.Also if vista
          ever comes out it will be like XP plus bloat.
          I have quite a number of contacts at ms that i have known & they say that vista is all washed up as far as an operating system.

          ta Dr MICK

        • #2484992

          well looks like you belong in a reservation

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Reservations

          you are wrong results prove i’m still right
          Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results

          Vista & to XP Professional Compared

          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.

          ta mick

        • #2532756

          well i was right & jerks like you are like sheep that

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Reservations

          just tag along.
          mick

        • #2484710

          well in answer to your question i have done heaps of testing

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What kind of testing have you done?

          Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results
          Vista & to XP Professional Compared
          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.
          Well guys & Gals Recent testing using good old aussie know how has revealed what a slow trooper vista is it is a dead slow 15 %
          I have been totally vindicated!!
          I’m definitely proud of myself

          ta mick

        • #2484642

          RE: You show your abject ignorance

          by nehpestthefirst ·

          In reply to well in answer to your question i have done heaps of testing

          I find it interesting that “Dr.” Mick has gained a Ph.D. between early July and the end of August.

          In the world of MMORPGs, we often find people who will “invent” new expertise to suit their arguement at the moment. We call them trolls. I think we simply have a case of the same here, especially given Mick’s propensity for re-posting the same set of data over, and over, and over… as well as his utter disrespect for Levy in the above posts.

          I agree, Lev. One would hope that any Ph.D. holder would be better able to defend a thesis, right or wrong, given the wealth of data available.

        • #2484562

          you comments are crap

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to RE: You show your abject ignorance

          my testing wheres yours:
          Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results
          Vista & to XP Professional Compared
          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.
          hey man GET A LIFE don’t be a pesky pest!
          being insulting won’t get you anywhere.

          ta Dr MIck

        • #2532744

          well how wrong you are look at the evidence

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to RE: You show your abject ignorance

          i claimed vista was useless as an os i presented the evidence that Vista is slower
          than xp by 10 % that is a lot & now i’m right.Ms was mean’t to unleash a “killer product”.A history making event & thrown billions to produce it & it is a giant flop.
          That’s where i have a phd & you don’t.I know in advance of what is going to happen.
          & i’m right!
          ta mick

        • #2584080

          Well Vista is slow & dangerous

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well in answer to your question i have done heaps of testing

          Vista: Slow and Dangerous
          The security program in Microsoft’s new version of Windows is so annoying you’re likely to turn it off. And that’s risky
          by Stephen H. Wildstrom

          Related Items
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          When I write a column, I almost never feel I have had enough time using the product under review. Even in the rare instance in which deadlines aren’t bearing down, I often realize later on that I’ve missed a fair amount. In the case of Microsoft’s Windows Vista, flaws that I thought would grow less annoying with extended use have actually become more troublesome.

          Most of the time I spent testing Vista was with sluggish pre-release versions. I expected things to improve when I ran the finished software on PCs configured for the new Windows version. I now realize that Vista really is slow unless you throw a lot of hardware at it. Microsoft (MSFT) claims it will run with 512 megabytes of memory. I had recommended a minimum of a gigabyte, but 2 GB is more like it if you want snappy performance. This is especially true if you’re also running resource-hungry Microsoft Office 2007.

          The most exasperating thing about Vista, though, is the security feature called User Account Control. UAC, satirized in an Apple (AAPL) ad as a security guy who constantly interrupts a conversation, appears as a pop-up asking permission before Windows will do a number of things: change system settings, install programs, or update antivirus software. UAC may well be necessary to block malicious programs from secretly installing themselves or hijacking your browser settings. But Microsoft has designed it to drive you nuts.

          Turn-Off Temptation
          A recent experience demonstrates what I mean. I was working away when Windows OneCare, Microsoft’s extra-cost security program, suddenly popped open a window asking me if it should give a program called wercon.exe access to the network. To begin with, this is a question that would mystify nearly everyone. (It turns out wercon.exe is a tool that sends error reports back to Microsoft.) When I clicked O.K., UAC asked me if it should let OneCare proceed. You would think Windows would be able to figure this out for itself and that these different security components would work together. But Vista leaves it all to the user to sort out.

          There’s a real danger here: UAC is such a nag that many folks will just turn it off, which Microsoft has made quite easy to do. Disabling UAC is especially tempting if you have set up limited accounts for your children that let you restrict the sort of Web sites they can visit, the programs they can run, and the amount of time they can spend on the computer. With limited accounts, the kids will have to find a parent whenever a UAC window pops up. But if you give them unlimited accounts to deal with UAC requests, they can undo any restrictions.

          Unfortunately, turning off UAC severely weakens Vista’s defenses. In a study of Vista security, Symantec researcher Orlando Padilla found that without UAC, Vista’s resistance to hostile software was similar to that of Windows XP. Before Vista, Windows promiscuously let programs install new software and make system changes without any notice to the user. UAC goes way too far the other way, requiring intervention for many innocent actions. The version of UAC in Mac OS X works much better, rarely popping up except during a software installation or upgrade.

          Immediate Pain
          As for general usability, I still have trouble finding once-familiar features that have been hidden in odd places. For example, unlike XP’s My Network button, an item on Vista’s main menu called Network does not give access to any network settings.

          Things don’t have to be this way. I’ve spent as much time with the redesigned Office 2007, and it feels quite comfortable. I’m sure I’ll get used to Vista’s quirks, Microsoft will smooth out the rough edges, and, in time, Vista’s many attractions will outweigh the drawbacks. For now, though, it’s a pain.

          Wildstrom is Technology & You columnist for BusinessWeek. You can contact him at techandyou@businessweek.com.

        • #2584078

          vista the slow way

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well Vista is slow & dangerous

          Vista: Slow and Dangerous
          All Reader Comments
          page 1 of 10

          Albert223

          Jun 6, 2007 7:56 PM GMT
          The Vista project had a vision which due to a mid-course correction just ran out of time. Get it out of the door was the mantra. Well they will pay a big price for this down the road as the company stock is reflecting. Vista is not flying of the selves where I live. XP is selling strong and at a premium. This is not like XP. Vista demands upgraded hardware and the consumer is spending their money on other things.

        • #2584077

          xp stillleads

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well Vista is slow & dangerous

          Smarty Pants

          Jun 6, 2007 3:43 PM GMT
          Annnnd you people are surprised whyyy?

        • #2584074

          slow poke to boot

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well Vista is slow & dangerous

          BummedSon

          Apr 29, 2007 3:57 PM GMT
          I recently bought a low end computer for my mother and all I could quickly obtain was Vista. Today “low end” means 1 gig of memory, a core duo processor and basically good hardware. But Vista is SLOW, and the screen is so busy with eye candy, that it is really annoying. Mind you, however they removed such clutter as title bars for things so you can’t tell what some windows are for, and they added the most annoying UAC I’ve ever seen. Nothing is easy to find and … ugh, I can’t go on. If you are getting a new PC, search for one with XP.

        • #2584073

          ms no idea in what they are doing

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well Vista is slow & dangerous

          Chris Nielsen

          Apr 28, 2007 10:02 PM GMT
          I had to buy a computer last week to replace mine. I was running Windows 2000 because I never liked or needed XP. I really tried to like Vista, and with 512 it was not that slow on my 3.3GHZ machine. But it was like working with a MAC in that you are kept from the OS and the UAC was driving me crazy. Sure it’s kind of pretty, but not much more than XP and who needs it? Anyway, when I installed Office 2000 and found that Outlook would not work correctly, I decided to make a backup of VISTA and install win2k again. I was going to make TWO backups of my VISTA OS, just in case, but after the first one, I was informed that I was not ALLOWED to make a second one. WTF? I’m now looking into getting a machine and running Linux so I can learn it and prepare for the day when my Win2k no longer works for some reason. This is the worst upgrade I have seen from Microsoft and their failure to produce a version of Linux just tells me that they still don’t have a clue.

          .

        • #2484709

          well in answer to your question i have done heaps of testing

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What kind of testing have you done?

          Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results
          Vista & to XP Professional Compared
          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.

          ta mick

        • #2489933

          after all the testing that’s been done vista still lags

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What kind of testing have you done?

          heaps back than xp.So why would anyone waste their money on an os that doesn’t perform.At the moment some people that have upgraded have found that there aren’t many benefits attached to vista as predicted there are huge tecnical hurdles & as much time as 2 years to get things right!
          ta mick

        • #2469743

          still the same

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to after all the testing that’s been done vista still lags

          yes it is

        • #2469741

          registration causes freezups

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to still the same

          as you are trying to register freezups occur.

        • #2532746

          well Bob i can tell you that xp performs 10% faster

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What kind of testing have you done?

          than vista.That means vista is a lame duck & ms has not done anything to improve the system.
          ta mick

        • #3228147

          call it what you like but

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Speculating?

          i was right.
          Ta mick

        • #2535823

          defintely on the right here

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to call it what you like but

          current evidence showsWindows code is too complicated. It’s not the components themselves, it’s their interdependencies. An architectural diagram of Windows would suggest there are more than 50 dependency layers (never mind that there also exist circular dependencies). After working in Windows for five years, you understand only, say, two of them. Add to this the fact that building Windows on a dual-proc dev box takes nearly 24 hours, and you’ll be slow enough to drive Miss Daisy.
          Windows process has gone thermonuclear. Imagine each little email you send asking someone else to fill out a spreadsheet, comment on a report, sign off on a decision — is a little neutron shooting about in space. Your innocent-seeming little neutron now causes your heretofore mostly-harmless neighbors to release neutrons of their own. Now imagine there are 9000 of you, all jammed into a tight little space called Redmond. It’s Windows Gone Thermonuclear, a phenomenon by which process engenders further process, eventually becoming a self-sustaining buzz of fervent destructive activity.

          Let’s see if, quantitatively, there’s any truth to the perception that the code velocity (net lines shipped per developer-year) of Windows has slowed, or is slow relative to the industry. Vista is said to have over 50 million lines of code, whereas XP was said to have around 40 million. There are about two thousand software developers in Windows today. Assuming there are 5 years between when XP shipped and when Vista ships, those quick on the draw with calculators will discover that, on average, the typical Windows developer has produced one thousand new lines of shipped code per year during Vista. Only a thousand lines a year. (Yes, developers don’t just write new code, they also fix old code. Yes, some of those Windows developers were partly busy shipping 64-bit XP. Yes, many of them also worked on hotfixes. Work with me here.)

          Lest those of you who wrote 5,000 lines of code last weekend pass a kidney stone at the thought of Windows developers writing only a thousand lines of code a year, realize that the average software developer in the US only produces around (brace yourself) 6200 lines a year. So Windows is in bad shape — but only by a constant, not by an order of magnitude. And if it makes you feel any better, realize that the average US developer has fallen in KLOC productivity since 1999, when they produced about 9000 lines a year. So Windows isn’t alone in this. [KLOC data comes from ?Worldwide IT Trends & Benchmark Report 2001?, produced by META Group (now acquired by Gartner)]

          The oft-cited, oft-watercooler-discussed dual phenomenon of Windows code complexity and Windows process burden seem to have dramatically affected its overall code velocity. But code can be simplified and re-architected (and is indeed being done so by a collection of veteran architects in Windows, none of whom, incidentally, look anything like Colonel Sanders). Process can be streamlined where inefficient, eliminated where unnecessary.

          But that’s not where it ends. There are deeper causes of Windows’ propensity to slippage.

          Cultured to Slip

          Deep in the bowels of Windows, there remains the whiff of a bygone culture of belittlement and aggression. Windows can be a scary place to tell the truth.

          When a vice president in Windows asks you whether your team will ship on time, they might well have asked you whether they look fat in their new Armani suit. The answer to the question is deeply meaningful to them. It’s certainly true in some sense that they genuinely want to know. But in a very important other sense, in a sense that you’ll come to regret night after night if you get it wrong, there’s really only one answer you can give.

          After months of hearing of how a certain influential team in Windows was going to cause the Vista release to slip, I, full of abstract self-righteous misgivings as a stockholder, had at last the chance to speak with two of the team’s key managers, asking them how they could be so, please-excuse-the-term, I-don’t-mean-its-value-laden-connotation, ignorant as to proper estimation of software schedules. Turns out they’re actually great project managers. They knew months in advance that the schedule would never work. So they told their VP. And he, possibly influenced by one too many instances where engineering re-routes power to the warp core, thus completing the heretofore impossible six-hour task in a mere three, summarily sent the managers back to “figure out how to make it work.”? The managers re-estimated, nipped and tucked, liposuctioned, did everything short of a lobotomy — and still did not have a schedule that fit. The VP was not pleased. “You’re smart people. Find a way!” This went back and forth for weeks, whereupon the intrepid managers finally understood how to get past the dilemma. They simply stopped telling the truth. “Sure, everything fits. We cut and cut, and here we are. Vista by August or bust. You got it, boss.”

          Every once in a while, Truth still pipes up in meetings. When this happens, more often than not, Truth is simply bent over an authoritative knee and soundly spanked into silence.


          The Joy of Cooking

          Bundled with a tendency towards truth-intolerance, Windows also sometimes struggles with poor organizational decision-making. Good news is that the senior leaders already know this and have been taking active steps to change the situation.

          There are too many cooks in the kitchen. Too many vice presidents, in reporting structures too narrow. When I was in Windows, I reported to Alec, who reported to Peter, to Bill, Rick, Will, Jim, Steve, and Bill. Remember that there were two layers of people under me as well, making a total path depth of 11 people from Bill Gates down to any developer on my team.

          This isn’t necessarily bad, except sometimes the cooks flash-mob one corner of the kitchen. I once sat in a schedule review meeting with at least six VPs and ten general managers. When that many people have a say, things get confusing. Not to mention, since so many bosses are in the room, there are often negotiations between project managers prior to such meetings to make sure that no one ends up looking bad. “Bob, I’m giving you a heads-up that I’m going to say that your team’s component, which we depend on, was late.”? “That’s fine, Sandy, but please be clear that the unforeseen delays were caused by a third party, not my team.”

          Micromanagement, though not pervasive, is nevertheless evident. Senior vice presidents sometimes review UI designs of individual features, a nod to Steve Jobs that would in better days have betokened a true honor but for its randomizing effects. Give me a cathedral, give me a bazaar — really, either would be great. Just not this middle world in which some decisions are made freely while others are made by edict, with no apparent logic separating each from the other but the seeming curiosity of someone in charge.

          In general, Windows suffers from a proclivity for action control, not results control. Instead of clearly stating desired outcomes, there’s a penchant for telling people exactly what steps they must take. By doing so, we risk creating a generation of McDevs. (For more on action control vs. results control, read Kenneth Merchant’s seminal work on the subject — all $150 of it, apparently).

          Uncontrolled? Or Uncontrollable?

          We shouldn’t forget despite all this that Windows Vista remains the largest concerted software project in human history. The types of software management issues being dealt with by Windows leaders are hard problems, problems that no other company has solved successfully. The solutions to these challenges are certainly not trivial.

          An interesting question, however, is whether or not Windows Vista ever had a chance to ship on time to begin with. Is Vista merely uncontrolled? Or is it fundamentally uncontrollable? There is a critical difference.

          It’s rumored that VPs in Windows were offered big bonuses contingent on shipping Vista by the much-publicized August 2006 date. Chris Jones even declared in writing that he wouldn’t take a bonus if Vista slips past August. If this is true, if folks like Brian Valentine held division-wide meetings where August 2006 was declared as the drop-dead ship date, if general managers were consistently told of the fiscal importance of hitting August, if everyone down to individual developers was told to sign on the dotted line to commit to the date, and to speak up if they had any doubts of hitting

        • #3287735

          if you bother to read the latest evidence

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Speculating?

          you will see i have been right.
          ta mick

        • #2484715

          you are fucking hilarious

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Speculating?

          here’s my results on vista i’s a fucking failureVista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results
          Vista & to XP Professional Compared
          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.
          ta mick

        • #2489467

          Acording to the benchmarks you posted there should be a very noticable

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to you are fucking hilarious

          differance if you ran XP and Vista on nearly identical pc’s. Well guess what I have done that-in fact the XP pc has a 3300+ AMD Athlon while the Vista has a AMD 2800+ but the fact of the matter XP is only slightly faster that Vista. In some cases Vista is faster.
          Mike

        • #2489159

          the answer has to do with stability & compatibility

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Acording to the benchmarks you posted there should be a very noticable

          Have you not read george ou’s latest blog where he says he will not use vista as a main
          op system.Because vista is still not as stable as people think & along with associated problems still not resolved by ms.
          I think say xp is much better as it’s more stable & runs applications better.
          ta mick

        • #2504470

          hardware

          by lindfalas ·

          In reply to the answer has to do with stability & compatibility

          Well he has hardware problem and other problem none other have now.

          GReetz

        • #2504783

          well with vista there are huge complications

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to hardware

          some are hardware related ie motherboards,hardrives etc some are software realted when the whole thing is intermixed you have got one immense problem.I wish it was sipmle & could easily be solved.But the whole thing is what do people want from vista or they happy with xp.
          ta mick

        • #2517468

          accordingto the ostrich jerk he feels he has no problems

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to hardware

          but there are huge hardware & software problems &failures that either ms or anyone
          has even attempted to solve.Unsigned drivers
          etc is a pain in the butt.

        • #2543474

          huge hardware problems still abound in vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to hardware

          there are huge printer/ scanner problems.

        • #2543473

          vista sux

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to hardware

          Hi,

          I recently installed the newest drivers with Alchemy for my Audigy 2, following all the instructions on this forum.
          After that I tested the speakers and it seems that when I use the Creative speaker settings to test my speakers front/rear right and front/rear left are both output on the front speakers now. If I test my speakers in the Vista control panel everything seems to work fine.
          In the Creative speaker settings I’ve unchecked the sync with control panel.

          Does that mean my speakers work for now or are they completely screwed up?

          I’m using the Inspire 6700 speakers from Creative which are actually 6.1 speakers, but 6.1 obviously doesn’t work anymore in Vista. Might this be the reason for my speakers acting weird?
          10-02-2007 02:35 AM

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        • #2543470

          vista sux

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to hardware

          Unable to open saved project in Movie Maker, HELP!!
          I recently (last month) bought a new HP Pavalion a1730n with Windows Vista
          Home Premium. I have been using Movie Maker and DVD Maker wihtout any
          problems until today. Suddenly I am not able to open a previously saved
          project file in movie maker! Here’s what happens….I open Movie Maker, click
          on File, Open, and double click the file. It begins to load the pictures that
          are in the file (they show up in the storyboard), and then apparently just
          stops. The mouse spins in its little circle, and the only way to close movie
          maker is through task manager, end task. I’ve even waited up to an hour to
          see if maybe it was just taking a super long time to open my project. It is
          not a large file – only 100 photos which total about 8 min long. I have also
          tried opening other projects that I had previously saved. It will not open
          those either.

          I called HP tech support and they can’t help. They wanted to transfer me to
          someplace where they’d charge me for it! Microsoft is closed until Monday. I
          need to get working on this project now! And instead of spending the last two
          hours working on the project, I’ve been searching the internet trying to find
          a way to open my project!! If you have any suggestions, I would really
          appreciate it.

          Maybe Microsoft recently updated something in vista that screwed it up? Is
          anyone else having this problem?

        • #2543468

          vista is well & screwed

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to hardware

          Posted by typemismatch // Fri, Nov 9, 2007 3:10 PM

          So we all know that networking in Vista is screwed up and I am amazed that 1 year after release it still doesn’t work. What happens to me? well after about 8 hours of use most applications loose their internet connection (wireless and lan) – Most? you ask … yes – things like outlook still get/send mail, IE/FF stop working, chat stops etc. maybe office just “wishes” the data over the air

          So I need to reboot to get back my connection – great, here is the problem. After getting the “logging off” and then “shutting down” for an un-determined amount of time my machine just blue screens … awesome.

          That means for one I can never “shutdown” as the blue screen causes a restart. Now lets compound this – if I resume from Sleep or Hibernate I get an ACS (acs.exe??) crash and guess what – no internet. So I need to do the above BSOD sequence – (left eye twitching).

          This is Vista certified hardware from Lenovo – “certified” I guess means Vista will run … what it does while running isn’t “certified” but at least I know my drivers are pretty good.

          So once or twice a day I must force a BSOD to keep surfing, I can’t resume,sleep,shutdown or restart with a BSOD so installing updates is fun.

        • #2543465

          vista is well & fucked

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to hardware

          People always claim Im in a hurry to show affection for Bill Gates and Windows Vista. Well with Bill, I admire the guy. Instead of taking his billions and running around like a 19 year old with a permanant erection like some CEO?s we know; Bill is quick to try to help humanity, cure diseases and generally try to make it bearable for those who find the world unbearable. But enough on Bill, lets move on to Windows Vista. As with any product I use I have my likes and dislikes. here is my list of Vista dislikes.

          1. Editions ? Way to many editions of Windows Vista. There should only be one, maybe 2 but definatly not 6.

          2. The blue pearl ? While I like the idea of the blue pearl I hate the fact it extends up and beyond the taskbar. Shrink it a bit.

          3. Desktop search ? While I like the desktop search function, I hate the implementation. They should have gone with something similar to Windows Desktop Search and put it in the taskbar.

          4. Driver support ? Some of my printers and scanners are unsupported on Windows Vista, a true shame and since Microsoft changed the Device driver model its unlikely to change any time soon as companies wont see any need to update their drivers.

          5. Windows Calendar ? Even though it is said to be iCal compliant, it isnt. I can go from iCal to Windows Calendar but not vice versa.

          6. Application support ? Some of my favorite apps like Virus Sheild, yes Cybermagellan this is a hint for YOU, GAIM, Frostwire and Adobe Audition dont work on Vista, GAIM and Frostwire for me refuses to connect.

          7. Theme support ? Still no support for 3rd party themes. Inexcusable.

          8. Price ? Yep, very expensive but worth it. I may buy a couple of copies and replace the rest when I replace the PC?s

          9. Hardware support ? yeah I do wish it would support older hardware, particularly Video and sound cards and printers and scanners.

          10. Driver signing ? It will be interesting to see how this one works itself out. Whether device driver developers will have to belong to an exclusive club. But its about time Microsoft addressed the security issue.

        • #2535821

          no xp is much faster than vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Acording to the benchmarks you posted there should be a very noticable

          vista is slower than xp

        • #2535818

          lack of drivers for vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to no xp is much faster than vista

          it’s taken much too long as not much drivers are available.

        • #2535817

          vista complaints

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to lack of drivers for vista

          Operating Systems

          Brampton Factor: Vista complaints
          It’s not ‘green’, it’s pricey – and what does it say about modern software development?

          By Martin Brampton

          Published: Tuesday 20 February 2007

          Martin Brampton sounds off on the ways Windows Vista fails to live up to its promise – and what it tells us about the stagnant state of software engineering today.

          Windows Vista has arrived and if you buy an off-the-shelf PC you will almost certainly get a copy. Vista has been described as the biggest software development ever attempted. I’ve been puzzling over what that might imply.

          But before getting down to some programming issues, let’s digress to consider the environment. There seems little hope of IT being able to make ‘green’ claims so long as new software makes existing hardware obsolete. Yet again, Microsoft is launching an operating system version that will not run on many existing systems. There will doubtless be token resistance but it will inevitably be difficult to avoid the move to Vista.

          One might think the situation is saved by the lack of any obviously compelling features in Vista that would persuade people to upgrade. Unfortunately, life is not so simple.
          Not only does the Vista technology place stress on systems, Microsoft’s pricing gives extra incentives to throw out perfectly usable computers. The retail price of Vista is exorbitant and the upgrades are not radically more appealing than previous versions of Windows while coming with irritating restrictions. To get a half decent price for Vista, the buyer is pushed towards OEM software, which is less than half the price of the equivalent retail version.

          Taking Amazon prices as a guide, Vista Home Premium costs a staggering ?197, while the OEM product is just ?68. Doubtless the big PC makers pay a lot less than that, especially as we know that US prices are generally lower than UK prices. There are similar price differences for applications such as Office. All this means that Microsoft is giving strong financial encouragement to the scrapping of computers and their replacement by new machines.

          One might think the situation is saved by the lack of any obviously compelling features in Vista that would persuade people to upgrade. Unfortunately, life is not so simple. Upgrade is likely to be forced as one thing leads to another. It only takes one vital upgrade of one application to a version that demands Vista to force the move. So it seems we need to suspend belief in the ‘greenness’ of IT at least until Microsoft issues a new operating system that works on all existing hardware and costs less as an easily installed upgrade than a new OEM deployment.

          What about the actual development of Vista, though? It is widely believed that Vista contains something like 10 million more lines of code than XP. One commentator thought there are around 2,000 Windows developers, and so in the five or so years since XP, they appear to have each contributed only around 1,000 additional lines of code.

          Others then contended that was a reasonable rate of production. Research from Steve McConnell, author of the book Software Estimation: The Black Art Demystified (Best Practices (Microsoft)), indicates annual rates ranging from 3,200 lines of code down to 1,600 per year, reducing with size of project. Someone else has claimed a national (presumably US) annual average of 6,200 lines, although no source was specified. The Vista figure was further defended on the grounds that operating systems are complex. That is an inadequate argument, given that only a very small portion of Vista is, truly speaking, an operating system.

          All of these numbers raise another curious issue. When I was a young programmer, several decades ago, it was considered that the average rate of code creation was around 20 lines (tested and documented) per day. If we suppose 200 effective working days per year, that equates to 4,000 lines per year. That figure relates to third generation languages and sizeable corporate projects, above the size of McConnell’s smallest projects.

          This puts computer industry hype into some perspective. Despite numerous ‘advances’ in both technology and technique, it would appear the creation of software takes just as long today as it did many years ago. There is no sign that any of the numerous expensive tools or the many heavily documented ‘new’ development methods have had the slightest impact. That is a sobering thought.

          It could be argued that different development languages are now used, yet there is actually little real change. While moving from assembler to third generation languages undoubtedly made life easier and perhaps more productive, fourth generation languages failed to maintain that progress. Always too specific to particular kinds of problems, they inevitably ran the risk of introducing huge overhead into projects for which they were unsuited. So nowadays, we see most development in Java, C++, variants of Basic and so on. Little different from techniques used in the 70s, especially if we take account of the invention of Smalltalk during that period.

          Another interesting consideration is that the usable lifetime for software may well have already peaked. Much of the code forming the so-called ‘legacy’ that caused such anxiety at the millennium was written in the 70s and 80s. It was kept in use far longer than its authors ever expected, and far longer than most software from earlier periods. The signs are that most software written today is scrapped after much shorter periods than the ‘legacy’ despite the fact there is little sign it is produced any more easily or cheaply.

          Now of course I do know that lines of code is a very poor (sometimes contrary) way to measure the creation of software. Yet it is the one enduring measure that allows us to do very simple calculations. Those calculations are useful because they cut through the obscurity that otherwise surrounds a highly complex activity.

          But getting back to Vista. Some more solid arguments in favour of the Vista developers’ productivity include the fact that some XP code has been scrapped, and even some of the code originally written for Vista was scrapped in the face of changing priorities. What is still of concern is that it is hard to see that Vista is a worthwhile result for the efforts of thousands of developers. If we have failed to increase productivity significantly over several decades, does it really make sense to devote such a huge resource to a mere operating system?

        • #2489938

          the only value of vista at the moment is to use

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Speculating?

          it as a coaster or hang it from the mirror on your car!
          ta miock

        • #2489863
          Avatar photo

          No you are so WRONG!!!!!

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to the only value of vista at the moment is to use

          I walked into Jaycar and bought a Back wards Clock Movement and fitted it to the M$ Provided Partner Demo Readiness Toolkit along with a stand. It confuses the hell out of everyone who sees it as they all think that they are going mad because it’s going back wards. 😀

          They only supplied a RC2 Beta Version that was supposed to be provided in November and came in early February after the Production Version went on sale to the General Public.

          Col

        • #2493624

          i know the clock we have jaycar here in sydney

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to No you are so WRONG!!!!!

          perhaps ms could make use of such a clock with an addition of a cuckoo on it to remind them of their dud os.
          ta mick

        • #2493479

          i’ll be honest i hardly go to ms for advice as they

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to No you are so WRONG!!!!!

          give me the wrong advice at times.i don’t beleive you should pay for advice unless you go to a lawyer.
          I usually consult with my colleagues & i go back to the manufactures.One has to reminisce on the early days of dos.They were sort of hectic by the seat of your pants survival days.I miss those days as now there’s hardly anything to do as it’s all automated.
          ta mick

        • #2511318

          if the latest sales are any indication of what’s ahead

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to No you are so WRONG!!!!!

          it’s a big mother of a flop.People are comparing it to millenium release.as everyone knows millenium was a hideous failure.Vista?s development cycle has suffered some serious, well-documented problems. Group projects with that many internal difficulties and delays rarely turn out well. To make matters worse, many features that were to be included in Vista, such as the WinFS file system, were cut. Add that to Vista?s high system requirements, and many users might decide not to buy the expensive new hardware needed to run an expensive, unproven operating system, especially one with such widespread developmental woes. The tech world has changed drastically since the days of DOS and Windows 95, and it may no longer be possible for a single company to enjoy near-ubiquity in all aspects of computing.What does that mean for Microsoft? If Vista flops, Microsoft?s monopoly will not vanish; sheer inertia alone will see to that. But it will erode at an increasingly rapid rate, especially if aggressive contenders, like Ubuntu Linux and Boot Camp-equipped Intel Macs, can make inroads. The failure of Vista would not doom Microsoft-Office alone would see to that-but Microsoft might well suffer a serious loss of power and influence.

          So is Windows Vista a coming triumph for Microsoft, or a catastrophe in the making? Which potential future do you see coming
          true?
          ta mick

        • #2532740

          jokes aside current testing has confirmed ms woes

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to No you are so WRONG!!!!!

          with vista os xp is 10% faster in the performance stakes than vista.This is huge
          so with have here a complete dud!!
          ta mick

        • #2531555

          well all evidence points to vista being totally

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to No you are so WRONG!!!!!

          washed up.by the way where is your ostrich
          friend michael hereid snr?
          he doesn’t seem to be around.
          ta mick

        • #2531552

          well when one weighs all the evidence

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well all evidence points to vista being totally

          regards vista youll see there are fundamental flaws of which Ms is totally ignorant & seems to ram on regardless.
          ta mick

        • #2590872

          Well vista does notsupport div-x

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to No you are so WRONG!!!!!

          Vista sings the DivX blues
          Regardless of what you think of the operating system itself, there?s no doubt that Vista has, since release, languished under the shadow of compatibility issues.

          In fairness, this seems to have had little to do with Microsoft. Many popular and regularly-updated applications simply haven?t caught up and been made Vista-compatible, despite the long beta and the two solid months between the release of Vista RTM and the consumer versions.

          One major application which is still lagging behind is DivX. The latest version of the codec, 6.5.1, offers patchy playback support on Windows Vista and Media Player 11, and it?s officially unsupported.

          When you install the DivX for Windows package on a Vista machine, it detects that you?re running Vista and gives a warning, outlining the various known problems of running DivX on Vista.

          DivX – Vista Warning
          The bundled version of the DivX Player (6.4.3) does work on Vista, but when you open a movie the Vista desktop will bomb back to Aero Basic ? this also occurs with the DivX Web Player. It?s not a complete desktop or explorer crash though ? the desktop switches back to Aero Glass once the Player is closed.
          Well what more do we needto say.

        • #2510596

          vista incompatible in korea

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Speculating?

          KOREA: Vista incompatible with some Korean websites
          Improved security of Windows Vista causes problems for users trying to access some websites

          Korea Herald
          Tuesday, February 20, 2007

          By Hwang Si-young

          Microsoft Korea launched Windows Vista, Office System 2007 and Exchange Server 2007 for home PC users on Jan. 31 this year, promoting the latest operating version’s enhanced security and three-dimensional graphic functionality. But despite much fanfare, the new system’s strong security features are creating problems in Korea.

          “As Koreans do a lot of commerce transactions and download government data via the internet, the incompatibility between the Vista and internet sites has surfaced as a new problem,” said an official at the Information Ministry.

          Internet transactions account for about 20 percent of the nation’s total commerce deals. Koreans downloaded 1.43 million government-issued documents last year. It is, however, not uncommon to see shaky screens when a Vista user wants to download data or view video clips on major portal sites as the content is all or partly blocked.

          The incompatibility occurs as Vista is stripped of the “Active X” technology, a security tool used by most Korea-based internet shopping, government and online gaming websites. Microsoft Korea cited Active X’s vulnerability to vicious codes as the reason for discontinuing the technology.

          Faced with resulting possible technical glitches, commercial lenders such as Shinhan Bank, Woori Bank and Hana Bank have taken proper measures. Users of these banks’ websites can expect normal services regardless of which type of system they choose. Other commercial lenders and brokerages such as Samsung Securities and Korea Securities said they will take steps no later than March this year.

          Online portals including Yahoo, Naver, Daum, and Empas, and internet shopping malls such as http://www.auction. co.kr, http://www.interpark.co.kr and http://www.ticketlink.co.kr, are currently offering normal services. Lineage, a popular online gaming service, said it would make its program compatible with the new operating system by the end of February.

          Meanwhile, experts have divided opinions about Vista’s future success in the Korean market.

          “Windows Vista’s functional enhancement will lead to increased demand for more powerful PCs, more memory capacities, including flash memory and dynamic random access memory chips,” Chung Chang-won, an analyst at Daewoo Investment & Securities, told The Korea Herald.

          “The launch will help boost the liquid crystal display market as well, which has been a bit sluggish for the past two years. Twenty-inch or bigger LCDs, considered fit for three-dimensional graphic and video clip viewing, will be in high demand thanks to the debut of the latest operating system,” he said.

          Skeptics, however, said the launch will only have limited effects.

          Chung Woo-chul, a software analyst at Tong Yang Investment & Securities, said companies will not go to the trouble of changing their existing office systems as long as they are not inconvenienced at work.

          “Companies were willing to change software and IT systems in the past, but things are now a bit different except for new start-ups who have to set up all new software and systems,” Chung said.

          Date Posted: 2/20/2007
          ta mick

        • #2510592

          vista security overhaul questioned

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista incompatible in korea

          The Register ? Security ? Vista security overhaul questioned
          User Account Control: insecure by design?
          By John Leyden → More by this authorPublished Monday 19th February 2007 12:40 GMTInterested in this story? Receive others like it on your desktop as they break. Security researchers have taken issue with Microsoft’s implementation of a security feature in Vista that is designed to stop users from routinely running systems in admin mode.

          Users of Windows XP and older Microsoft operating systems habitually ran PCs in admin mode, which gives unrestricted access to the system. As a result, malware attacks carried the ability to take over compromised systems which wouldn’t normally be possible if a machine was running in user mode.

          The User Account Control (UAC) security functionality of Windows Vista is designed to address this problem by obliging users to run their Vista PCs via a normal user account by default. Users are asked to switch modes and enter login credentials when they request a task requiring admin credentials.

          White hat hacker Joanna Rutkowska discovered that users attempting to run an installation file need to do so in admin mode. That means users are confronted with the all-or-nothing choice of granting an installed program complete system privileges or abandoning an installation altogether.

          “That means that if you downloaded some freeware Tetris game, you will have to run its installer as administrator, giving it not only full access to all your file system and registry,” Rutkowska writes, adding that Win XP gave her the ability to add permissions to her normal (restricted) user account that isn’t possible with Vista.

          Mark Russinovich, a technical fellow at Microsoft, argues in a detailed response that the design of Vista’s User Account Control balances security and usability.

          Rutkowska acknowledges that Microsoft has improved the security of its operating system with Vista but warns that the security shortcomings of UAC can not be so easily dismissed. “UAC is not perfect [but that] doesn’t diminish the fact that it’s a step in the right direction, implementing a least-privilege policy in Windows OS,” she writes.

          Rutkowska takes issue with Microsoft’s contention that flaws in UAC controls don’t in themselves create security bugs. She points, by way of example, to a security bug she has discovered which allows a low integrity level process to send WM_KEYDOWN messages to a command prompt window running at high integrity level as among the types of problems she is seeking to highlight. ?

          ta mick

        • #2510588

          vista raises the bar for flaw finders

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista security overhaul questioned

          Vista raises the bar for flaw finders
          But the battle’s not over yet
          By Robert Lemos, SecurityFocus → More by this authorPublished Wednesday 31st January 2007 11:54 GMTReceive articles like this on your desktop as they break, click here. Microsoft launched its latest operating system – Windows Vista – on Monday, a move that will make finding easily exploitable vulnerabilities a lot harder, according to security researchers.

          In a launch event in New York City, the software giant took the wraps off both Windows Vista and its Office 2007 productivity suite. Long awaited, Windows Vista brings together a number of security features, some aimed at hardening the operating system against attack and others designed to encourage users to make security a priority when using their PCs.

          “None of the features in Windows Vista, either individually or together, are meant to be bulletproof,” said Stephen Toulouse, senior product manager for Microsoft’s Security Technology Unit. “But the defense-in-depth will significantly raise the security level compared to Windows XP.”

          The launch of its latest operating system comes five years after the company restructured its approach to software security with the Trustworthy Computing Initiative. The revamped strategy – prompted by the Code Red and Nimda worms that struck a massive number of the software giant’s customers in the summer of 2001 – led to a massive push to educate developers and provide tools to weed out software bugs. In 2004, Microsoft refocused Windows XP Service Pack 2, making the update almost completely about security.

          While other applications, including Internet Explorer 7 and Office 2007, have benefited from Microsoft’s secure development lifecycle, the development of Windows Vista was the first time the software giant’s consumer operating system was designed from the ground up with a focus on security. For example, the operating system enforces least-privilege rules of access, requesting the user’s password to execute certain higher privilege tasks. The software giant has also improved the operating system’s firewall and revamped the Security Centre to give more information to users. Internet Explorer 7 brings additional security enhancements, such as limiting ActiveX controls and significant anti-phishing features.

          For security researchers, however, it’s what’s under the hood that matters. Three major features will make Vista more difficult to exploit even when vulnerabilities are found: Kernel Patch Protection, Data Execution Prevention, and Address Space Layout Randomisation.

          The controversial Kernel Patch Protection, also known as PatchGuard, limits the practice of some software developers of creating add-on features for the operating system by patching the kernel, the core system software. Many security software makers have criticised the feature because it limits their software’s ability to modify the core features offered by the Windows operating system.

          “This is especially popular among anti-virus products, which sometimes use exactly the same hooking techniques as some popular malware, like rootkits,” Joanna Rutkowska, senior researcher for COSEINC Advanced Malware Labs, said in an email interview with SecurityFocus. “This is not good, not only because it may have potential impact on system stability, but it also confuses malware detection tools.”

          Such restrictions are good for the overall security of the Windows platform, but it’s not comprehensive by any means, Rutkowska said. PatchGuard only protects against modifications to code and static-kernel objects, what Rutkowska calls type-I infections. It does not detect modifications to dynamic structures (type-II infections) nor does it detect modifications to code running through hardware virtualisation (type-III infections), she said.

          Track this type
          ta mick

        • #2617129

          well bills made himself a jackass

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Speculating?

          The Microsoft chairman said, in essence, that the development world has changed with the advent of new Web technologies that give people any time, any place access to their data–a far cry from the PC-centric world of the past. “Everything we do now, we have to be user-centric, not device-centric,” he said.

          Gates also pledged to bolster the company’s development efforts on Internet Explorer, which he said has lagged in recent years.

          “In a sense we’re doing a mea culpa, saying we waited too long for a browser release,” Gates said. “I expect us to move very very rapidly there because we see great opportunities.”

          Gates said that Microsoft is already working on the next two versions after Internet Explorer 7, which is due later this year with Windows Vista, a long anticipated update to Windows XP.

          On Monday, Microsoft released several product updates, including a “refresh” of the Internet Explorer 7 Beta 2 preview, and Microsoft’s Atlas AJAX Web development kit will have an updated license allowing customers to run Web applications built with Atlas.

          The term AJAX was coined last year to describe a combination of Web technologies, including JavaScript and XML. More and more developers are using these tools to build more capable Web applications that can replace older generations of “fat client” desktop systems.

          This week, Microsoft executives will explain in more detail the company’s full arsenal of software and Live hosted services for building Web applications on a range of devices including desktop PCs, mobile phones, gaming devices and Media Center PCs.

          The expansion of Web-connected software to a larger group of consumers is something that can’t be ignored, the company says. “More and more activities are happening online. Whatever industry you look at, that’s where people are spending time,” said Charles Fitzgerald, general manager for platform technologies at Microsoft. “Our latest Web technologies (can be used) to drive better customer connections online.”

          Moreover, the popularity of “mashups,” which let developers combine parts of one Web site with parts of another, has driven a new way to look at Web sites. Increasingly developers can think about Web sites as “components” in their applications, Gates said. “This is a powerful idea whose time has come, and we’re really just at the beginning.”

          Video: Mix ’06: Gates keynote
          From the stage of Mix ’06, Bill Gates discusses building new online applications.
          Gates on Monday also discussed the changes to Web usage that will come from the broader adoption of RSS (Really Simple Syndication) and related Microsoft-led initiatives, including Simple Shared Extensions for sharing calendaring information and Live Clipboard.

          “You can think of RSS as the start of the programmable Web. As Web sites start exposing their APIs, amazing things happen,” said Gates.

          Microsoft intends to build deeper RSS support in Windows Vista and Internet Explorer 7, allowing people to subscribe to Web pages as well as podcasts and photos.

          The Mix ’06 conference is also an effort by Microsoft to attract more Web developers and designers to Microsoft products.

          The company’s Expression line of designer tools is being built to foster better collaboration between technical programmers and designers. The tools are expected to be released later this year.

          Now on News.com
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          Extra: Space cadet school
          Overall, Microsoft is hoping to prove to developers that it understands the new realities of online development, ranging from things like AJAX to software-as-a-service development, pioneered by rivals such as Salesforce.com.

          Adam Gross, vice president of developer marketing at Salesforce.com, noted that Microsoft has been very successful with traditional Windows developers. But it has not been as successful reaching “Internet developers.”

          “Until now, Microsoft tools have been very Microsoft-centric. I’d like to see how they are really going to approach the Internet as a development platform,” Gross said.

      • #3156181

        The Bottom Line

        by aaron a baker ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        The Bottom line with Vista is that unless a person “Actually has tried it out” they are in no position to talk.
        From then on, all we get is what’s been said by someone else who didn’t try it and on it goes. I for one would like those of us who have NOT used the system to be the ones to read about it from the experienced user. Anything else makes no sense. So there’s no point in flaming, your blog tells us A-You’re angry and B- at something you know nothing about and do not understand.Get with the Program.
        I would advise doing like the rest of us who Don’t have Vista and read.
        You might learn something.
        And for god’s sake, stop listening to the blathering fools around you who haven’t tried it either.
        Good or Bad, I want to hear it from an experienced user and not a theorist.
        At the very least, A Pro 😉
        Regards 🙂
        Aaron

        • #3156622

          I agree fully with Aaron

          by neil higgins ·

          In reply to The Bottom Line

          Unless you’ve dabled with the beta version,now 2,I have’nt,simply trashing Vista,is stupid.A good read is at longhornBlogs.com
          I wont be installing Vista from “the off”,as I want to see what problems occur,and they will,due to the enormous mish-mash of configurations “out there”,but after a period of reflection,and a good look at one of the full release versions next year,in a home situation (family members have said they will buy),I shall dabble to my hearts content,and see what happens.
          Read,review,but above all dont destroy with words,a product that is’nt out till 07.If you dont have the “bottle”,or chance,to be beta tester,or after a long “test” period of one of the final public release versions,then you can say you dont like it,or it’s not for you.Kicking Microsoft seems to be the norm.I often have a little dig now and again,but writing the code for a new OS is no easy task,and one which should be appreciated.Really.

        • #3156470

          Thank you Neil

          by aaron a baker ·

          In reply to I agree fully with Aaron

          I’m glad you concur. There has been an incredible an absolutely incredible amount of hype and built up tension regarding a product that, for all intents and purposes, “Doesn’t Exist Yet” and yet all this back and forth between those loving it and those hating it.
          It’s not Vista they hate, it’s Microsoft and they can’t wait to get in there and start looking or thing to go wrong, just so that they can rant and rave some more.
          If ever there was an exercise in futility, this is it.
          I think you’ll find that as time goes on, the rants/raves will die down and the truly intelligent members, will read up on what the “Experienced” Vista user think’s and why.
          Many users, different experiences, should be interesting.
          when you consider the line up of Pros and Experience that we have in our little Tech Republic Family.
          It’s not going to be boring, that’s for sure.
          Regards
          Aaron

        • #3113742

          aaron you are right but i have tested vista through

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Thank you Neil

          vista is not going to make the line as there are major faults inherent in the system.
          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3227631

          What builds have you tried.

          by rndmacts ·

          In reply to aaron you are right but i have tested vista through

          I have been running Vista since April on my machine, I have used Beta 2 and now am using RC1.
          True it is beta software and sometimes there are a few gotchas but then thats what the testing program is all about. You report the gotchas to MS so they can figure what went wrong. You don’t apply a Beta and expect the finished product.

          I haven’t met a software program that has balked at being run in Vista either natively or in compatability mode. So far I like it and will buy Ultimate when available.

          All you are spewing is things that pro Apple and pro Linux commentators have been saying, no facts just spew. You obviously have no first hand experience as RC1 is not bloated and as Georg Ou stated previously it uses the resources available and manages them to give the best computing experience. I will declare that yes I am running Vista on hardware designed to take full advantage of Vista, but then again it is a real world test. You are convinced that there are major problems in the source code, but where is your empirical proof of such a statement. If there is a problem, point it out, you can’t because there isn’t one and so there is nothing for MS ot state.

          If you wish to slag something, provide proof of your statements because from the general composure of your post you ain’t as bright as you profess to be. Unless your original language is not english, I don’t know a university that hands out masters to someone bordering on illiterate.

        • #3289388

          you just jealous because i’m right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What builds have you tried.

          You just rambling on I have thouroughly tested all versions & i have done cost benefit analysis.At least i havean informed
          opinion & i don’t make off the cuff comments.It’s now 28/11/06 & i’m still right vista is crap!!!
          ta mick

        • #3113743

          i know what’s happening at microsoft

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I agree fully with Aaron

          the long delay is that they are having major tchnical
          hurdles
          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3206967

          Vista is going to be just like XP

          by combssrlckc ·

          In reply to i know what’s happening at microsoft

          The frist time I used XP I had to go Buy New Printers That were compatable with it. I like the new vista. but it does have a big compatablty problems, most of my old program are not compatable. I am a tight wade so I still use dial up so far the only modems that work are us robotics. I think it will come around. I think they should have gone to the other software companys sooner so they could develope new drivers sooner. I think in a few months it will be a different story

        • #3206946
          Avatar photo

          There is one very big difference between XP & Vista

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Vista is going to be just like XP

          That is in the Digital Signing of software. To be able to install software on Vista MS is claiming that it will have to be Digitally Signed just like the Hardware is now on XP. The only problem here is that if MS Pushed ahead along the same lines as Hardware Digital Signatures the companies involved [b]Can Not[/b] provide any support for different platforms.

          At first I think that you’ll be able to install unsigned software but when the second version comes out 4 years after the original product release of Vista things might be very different and you’ll be unable to install any unsigned software. From what was said at the last MS Partners Meeting that I attended you will be unable to use any unsigned Hardware on Vista this was touted as one of the new Security Features but there may very well be resistance from the hardware makers as to get a Digital Signature they must sign a contract not to support any other platform. And the same is going to start being applied to Windows Software as well. There could very well be some major Software Houses who write software for various platforms who resist this change and this could force some users away from Vista.

          This is MS’s way of ensuring Market Share but I don’t know how well it will work and this depends on just how happy business will be willing to accept being dictated to by MS. Currently the stated aim is to only allow Digitally Signed Hardware to be used with the original Vista and as Vista is going to be the backbone of all MS Development for at last the next 10 years things could get nasty. As MS is saying they are expecting to release 1 major update 2 years after the product release and then at the 4 year stage a new OS. So if MS stick to this we’ll be seeing 3 major updates along the lines of SP2 for XP and 2 new OS in the next 10 years which MS is expecting business to adopt very shortly after it’s release so that companies no longer will skip an entire product range like many did when ME & 2000 was released.

          Many companies just continued using 98SE as it was still on sale and it even outsold XP until it was removed from sale so MS saw many companies completely skip ME & 2000 and move from 98 to XP when they where forced to upgrade their computer systems.

          I don’t know how well this will work for MS and I guess that [b]Only Time Will Tell![/b]

          It could be a brilliant move on the part of MS or it could backfire badly and make the choice to move to a different OS a really good idea to a lot of Business. I’ll be looking on with interest.

          Col

        • #3206894

          Pure Speculation

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to There is one very big difference between XP & Vista

          1) Please provide proof other than something you heard at a MS Partners Meeting. You say things like that alot. For one, I believe that would be illegal and they’ll rightfully get sued over it. And for two, it would be market suicide and therefore they won’t do it.

          2) Perhaps retail sales of Win 98 outsold retail sales of Win XP for some time, however, only 10% of all OS sales are done thru the retail channel.

          The vast majority of OS sales are done thru new PC sales and volume licensing. In that area, Win XP won hands down.

          Once again, it is you spreading the FUD this time.

        • #3208622
          Avatar photo

          Rick if you where a MS Partner

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to There is one very big difference between XP & Vista

          You could visit the Partners Web Site at MS and download the slide shows for your self. As you are not it’s pointless me giving you the link as you can not get in there to see for yourself.

          As for the legality of MS D demanding that and providers who Digitally Sign their products look no further than Creative Sound Blaster. if you look for drivers for an AWE 64 you can find Windows, Unix & Linux drivers but if you look for drivers for the Live or latter sound cards there are only Windows drivers available. The only thing that has changed in that time is that Creative has got a Digital Signature for their product to work with Windows XP.

          Instead of picking on me join MS and see for yourself you just might be surprised at what is happening.

          Also the sales of 98SE according to MS sources and a slide from a Power Point Presentation clearly show 60% as Win 98SE and 40% as XP over all not just confined to one group. MS make these slide shows available to their partners shortly after the Road Shows so it’s all there for anyone who cares to take the time and effort to join up and look. 🙂

          Col

        • #3206278

          BTW

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to There is one very big difference between XP & Vista

          Just read an article in Windows IT Pro that only the x64 version of Vista will absolutely require digitally signed drivers. Not the x32 version of Vista.

          The vast majority of purchases in the near term (2 years maybe) will be x32.

        • #3214754
          Avatar photo

          Well I can only repeat what the people from MS tell us

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to There is one very big difference between XP & Vista

          If they have changed their minds on what they will and will not have in their [b]Secure Computing Platform[/b] that’s MS’s business not mine.

          I’ve never said at any stage that I am getting MS do do something or other but I do rely on what MS tells it’s Partners as to how they will be proceeding. The current reasoning for Digitally Signed Drivers & Software is to make sure that there are no new holes opened in the OS that is predominately used by the majority of people the world over.

          If MS wants to back away from it’s [b]Trusted Computing Model[/b] that’s their business not mine but just like [b]Win FS[/b] which was supposed to be at the core of Vista they may have encountered technical or legal problems that the people at MS didn’t anticipate but till the product actually reaches [b]Production[/b] and unless MS says other wise I would tend to believe them rather than some other authority with no direct connection to the development team at Redmond.

          Col

        • #3227626

          What are you talking about.

          by rndmacts ·

          In reply to There is one very big difference between XP & Vista

          Digital Signatures don’t have anything to do with whether manufacturers can support other technology, that would be illegal in 70% of Microsofts marketplace. If you sat through a partners meeting you would know that Digitally Signed Hardware can only be obtained from Microsoft and is more costly to obtain than earlier liscences. Too many past security flaws and other problems were due to poorly written drivers, that won’t happen again. There is another option and that is to have your hardware use universal driver support built into Vista, which also means that some functionality could be lost.

          I find it strange you say you are a partner but by the info you are claiming is real are saying that MS is going to break every monopoly law on the books. I have sat through partner meetings and never heard any of what you claim.

        • #3227539
          Avatar photo

          Well I’ll repeat it again just for you

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to There is one very big difference between XP & Vista

          At the MS Partner meeting in Brisbane AU on the 22 May-2006 the MS people said that they would be only allowing Digitally Signed Software to be installed on the next version of Vista.

          This is not the first version of Vista that we will see but the next generation as what is currently known as Vista is the basis of all MS products for the next 10 years. They expect to release a Service Pack every 2 years and a replacement OS every 4 years. They where not specific if they meant that the Digitally Signed Software would apply when the Service Pack was released of the next generation of Vista.

          If you look at the Digital Signing of Hardware for MS this removes all cross platform support for that piece of hardware and generally speaking any cross platform support from that Hardware maker. If you think that this is not already happening I would ask you to show me the place on Creative Web Site that has drivers for any Nix OS for an Augicy ZX2 or for that matter any other of their new products all of which are digitally signed for XP.

          Col
          Re here for more info as it was written closer to the day.

          http://tinyurl.com/hjej2

        • #3205021

          hal i have been to lot’s of MS for partners

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to There is one very big difference between XP & Vista

          meetings I have to agree with you totally.I have
          spoken to mS who have said virtually tough titties
          if you don’t have digital signage or compatibility
          problems.They say the onus is on the hardware manufacturer & not on them.
          In fact given the current situation we can expect
          complete sales drop for MS.Compared to other OS releases Vista will definitely flop big time.
          MS has been caught out by lying to the poor old consumer again.
          TA mick
          oi you are numero uno on this site hal congrats!
          you also TALK A LOT OF SENSE!

        • #3167542

          thanks

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I agree fully with Aaron

          i don’t think expreassing an opinion about a product
          is really knocking MS.I for one would like to see them be successful.Bu after evaluating all the betas i’m convinced that it wont’t make it in the 64 bit area due to major technical reasons.

        • #3164903

          From experience

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to The Bottom Line

          I loaded the latest (beta2) on an HP-Compaq tc4200 notebook.
          From previous versions, beta2 ran smoother and faster (but took longer to install). It eats up almost 80 MB Ram less than previous versions tested. I was much more comfortable with this release than previous versions.
          That said.. It stil needs lots of work. System resources are more in control with it, but many drivers are still unavailable or cannot install. Perfect example, I could not get the pen driver loaded (tablet pc). It failed every time, but when I erased the drive, setup XP and installed the driver, then upgraded, it worked fine. So the driver worked, it just wouldnt install.
          But I tested the BOOT recovery option again, I havent done this since the first build. It still does not work well. I moved ntoskrnl.exe and booted, it errored (expected), instructed me to recover, asked for the disk, and ran a process. After a few minutes it asked if I wanted to run system restore ???? for a missing kernal? I said no, and it scanned for another 5 min or so and told me that nothing was wrong with the boot environment???????? This really needs some work.
          Then I tried the new search. Unless I am searching the cd drive or the directory that I am currently in, it will not find anything. This may be an option that was disabled purposefully, but it is one of the ‘highlights’ of Vista, so why would it be disabled?

          I didnt go further because it still needs a lot of work. I played with it for a day and blew it away, just waiting for a better release, or at least one where I can search and actually find something.

        • #3113741

          w2ktechman you are right!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to From experience

          Microsoft has a long way to go let’s not kid ourselves i have really tested vista & it has major short comings not like the other predessessors. ihave recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3165328

          spoken like a true professional…

          by unclerob ·

          In reply to The Bottom Line

          concise, polite and directly to the point:
          excellent reply, you could give a course on discussion responses!

          I get tired of reading flames, it’s nice to read something positive.

          Thank you, it’s a good start to the day.

        • #3113740

          thanks unclerob

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to spoken like a true professional…

          you speak a lot of sense when you say that,i don’t speakharshly it’s a fact.
          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3113744

          the bottom line is you are unsure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to The Bottom Line

          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3283152

          Enough already!!!

          by txtopgun ·

          In reply to the bottom line is you are unsure

          We have read your illiterate remarks enough already. If you don’t have something new, or at least in genuine english, to say, then shut up and color (I am sure you still have your crayons close by.) I don’t have a master’s in computer science or a PHD but at least I can spell and know when I have already said the same stupid things several times.

        • #3200215

          where did you come from & go back to

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Enough already!!!

          your black hole You should change your name txtopgun arseabout.You know jackshit you can’t even spell Phd properly.You show no respect to your elders & you don’t deserve any jack shit!
          Did anyone say ashit head like you can make any comment as you know buggerall.
          piss off
          Dr Mick

        • #3200182

          Elders?

          by txtopgun ·

          In reply to where did you come from & go back to

          I would venture to say I am probably your elder for that matter. I started working with computers in earnest around 1982. Can you post the link to your pHD (yes I did it on purpose dummy) so everyone else can have one for their wall too?

        • #3200175

          Verification of elleged credentials

          by mark ·

          In reply to Elders?

          I asked him to post when he got these alleged degrees and from what university so that they could be verified, but he hasn’t. Hmmm… I wonder why?

        • #3200163

          you obviously can’t count or spell

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Elders?

          I started in IT in 1976,that’s 30 years ago.You obviously can’t count.Also you did not intentionally
          misspelt PHD as it stands for Poor Head Dunce.
          If you started in 1982 you dunce you would be 24 years. HA HA
          Ta Dr Mick Phd
          ps you can go suck eggs

        • #3200006

          Hey numbnuts!

          by txtopgun ·

          In reply to where did you come from & go back to

          You have become the laughing stock of this place. I don’t think you have any idea how stupid you sound. If you indeed have a PhD in any field whatsoever you have singlehandedly done more to damage its credibility than all your predecessors combined. I am truly amazed they let creatures in padded rooms have computers! Your idiotic posts are no longer worth my time.

        • #3199946

          that’s it go away

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Hey numbnuts!

          if that’s all you can do well you are wasting my time & everyone elses so
          go away
          piss off
          Ta Dr Mick

        • #2485003

          you know numbnuts your wrong & i’m right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Hey numbnuts!

          Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results

          Vista & to XP Professional Compared

          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.

          eat crap you pig!
          mick

        • #3200214

          where did you come from & go back to

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Enough already!!!

          your black hole You should change your name txtopgun arseabout.You know jackshit you can’t even spell Phd properly.You show no respect to your elders & you don’t deserve any jack shit!
          Did anyone say ashit head like you can make any comment as you know buggerall.
          piss off
          Dr Mick
          ps your so perfect you don’t make spelling mistakes!!

        • #3200177

          “Spelling” Ph.D.

          by mark ·

          In reply to where did you come from & go back to

          “You know jackshit you can’t even spell Phd properly”

          And for someone who allegedly has one, it appears that you can’t either. It’s Ph.D.

          And who in the hell are you to criticize someone else’s spelling?

        • #3200160

          i could say the same about you

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to “Spelling” Ph.D.

          You are a dumb arse idiot go play with yourself somewhere else as you have nothing to contribute here.
          Ta Dr Mick Phd

        • #3218980

          whil’st there has been some strong points

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Enough already!!!

          in the development on vista.There have been many vulnerbilities not reported in the media.The kernel is not really as strong as they claim.despite assurances of stability.
          ta mick

        • #3168195

          Experienced User Reporting

          by mypl8s4u2 ·

          In reply to The Bottom Line

          Please note that the ramblings are to be regarded as an ?opinion?.

          Loaded Vista build 5291
          Installation: The installation is the standard 2GB+ DVD variety and takes a long time. The good thing about the installation is that now you have two progress bars. The first one is labeled to the effect that user input will be required till this bar has fully progressed. The second bar then resumes the process, and this is where Vista?s setup will tell you that your input is no longer required. All you have to do now is wait until the installation process is completed, and delve right into it. According to our test results, it took approximately an hour before 5270 was fully installed.
          We were quite surprised by the amount of disk space the installer required. It needs a minimum of 8GB+ of free disk space, which goes on to show Microsoft’s capitalization of cheap storage. Personally, we think that 8GB for a mere OS is a bit too much to ask, but considering Vista is still in Beta, maybe the required disk space will trickle down in the final version. It might even go up, so if you have a 40GB hard disk, be prepared to spare 20 percent of it just for the OS.
          The upgrade option is currently available only if you have Windows XP with SP2 (a service release we personally detest so we did a fresh install), or if you have a previous build of Windows Vista installed. We didn?t have that either. When making a fresh install, it will not format the drive but will simply move all current Windows files to a folder labeled windows.old (quite possibly, it simply renames the Windows folder to that). The downside to this is that during the boot-up process, you will see both options for the OS, and thus you won’t be getting a clean and thorough install, which is a pity to say the least. You can, however, change this by editing the Advanced System Properties, but unlike in Windows XP, where you can create modifications and change the OS name altogether, here you can simply choose the default OS from a drop down menu.
          An interesting quirk that we came across was that at the login screen, the display didn?t cover the entire screen (we used a 15.4″ widescreen display), but just a small portion of it. This happens only at the login screen, but once inside, there are no issues whatsoever. Apparently Vista is having some issues with widescreen displays, but it’s nothing serious.
          Also, the system did not automatically take the native screen resolution of 1280×800 but was stuck at 1024×768. We had to manually correct it. Normally in XP, the screen resolution gets set automatically (for LCDs). Perhaps this is another pre-Beta 2 quirk.

        • #3168019
          Avatar photo

          Personally I don’t think that the production

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Experienced User Reporting

          Release of Vista will take up less Disc space if you look at the actual install it copies all the install files to the HDD and then proceeds to install from there. Once the Install files are copied across the DVD isn’t accessed again during the install.

          I did a clean install on a [b]Blank HDD[/b] and had no problems in formatting the drive actually I formatted it into 2 partitions each about the same size on a 200 GIG SATA Drive. The Upgrade option is at best a Nightmare to work with but what I found the most interesting was the inability to install quite a lot of software.

          Even some new MS Software wouldn’t install admittedly it was a game but the latest Age of Empires wouldn’t load while some old 98 game installed without a problem though the graphics where lousy.

          Personally I’m waiting for an AV product that will install before I begin serious testing. I’ve singed up for the Trend Micro Beta Testing Program and until that becomes available latter this month I’m only having a play at the moment.

          Col

        • #3168400

          hal you are right7 are confirming what isaid!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Personally I don’t think that the production

          The problems you have come accross is the the tip of the proverbial iceberg.When we later find out that either our hardware or software will not work either in the realm of 64 bit or 32 bit as drivers for vista are incompatible.So in essence people will be forced to buy new systems & new hardware.Don’t think that i’m anti microsoft & or anty vista far from it.We just are going to be at the mercy at whatever comes our way.Like many we’l be the ones suffering!
          As i said i have done some core testing & i have found big compatibility problems & i know beta is beta but will they fix it in time for release.

        • #3167334

          So far…. I’m not impressed.

          by ju1ce ·

          In reply to Personally I don’t think that the production

          But again, it’s a beta. The graphics were nice, but I couldn’t get passed picking my drive. It would not detect it and it is a known issue that SATA v2.0 support lacks severly.

        • #3167288

          good on you juice

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to So far…. I’m not impressed.

          for expressing your opinion! all the best
          we want responses like yours!

        • #2489928

          Heaps of people refuse to takeup vista for

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to So far…. I’m not impressed.

          compatibility & stability reasons guess which software they’ll stay with.
          ta mick

        • #3277071

          Vista AV

          by rebelflag ·

          In reply to Personally I don’t think that the production

          AVG now will install under the Beta 2 of Vista, so there is an anti-virus option available.

        • #3217031

          there are problems in recognition of

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Vista AV

          sata drives.Ms has admitted that vista has problems detecting sata drives.
          ta mick

        • #3217025

          delay on vista causes other delays

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Vista AV

          Delayed Vista, Laptop-Battery Mess May Quash Holiday PC Sales
          ta mick

        • #3217020

          wikipedia infected

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to delay on vista causes other delays

          Read more…
          Wikipedia: hacked and infected!
          The German version of Wikipedia has been hacked to spread malware to unsuspecting users. Will the sneaky ?social engineering? attacks of the hackers ever end?
          ta mick

        • #3217018

          austrian programmer sets sight on vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to delay on vista causes other delays

          Virus writers are working on ways of hacking Microsoft’s new operating system Windows Vista.
          An Austrian programmer has published examples of malicious code that exploits loopholes in technology which could be part of Vista.

          The viruses affect Microsoft’s command shell technology which is expected to replace the current command prompt.

          Vista, previously codenamed Longhorn, is due for release towards the end of 2006, half a decade after Windows XP.

          2004 warning

          Finnish security company F-Secure described the malicious code as proof-of-concept viruses to highlight potential vulnerabilities in Vista.

          In company’s blog, F-Secure’s director of anti-virus research, Mikko Hypponen said: “The case is interesting historically, as these are the first viruses for a totally new platform.”

          The viruses target MSH (Microsoft Command Shell), the technology that Microsoft is looking to use in Vista.

          Security experts had warned about the possibility of virus writers exploiting MSH in 2004.

          But it is unclear whether the technology will make it into the final version of Vista.

          “It has lately been rumoured that MSH might not ship with Vista at all,” said Mr Hypponen.

          “Instead [it] might be part of Microsoft Exchange 2006 or something. We won’t know for sure until later.”

          Microsoft’s flagship Windows software already runs on about 90% of personal computers worldwide.

          The firm has promised that Vista will take what for Microsoft is a completely new approach to computing, with security not an add-on but an integral part of the operating system.
          ta mick

        • #3217014

          windows vista upgrade coupons

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to delay on vista causes other delays

          Microsoft later this month plans to roll out an Express Upgrade program that gives buyers of Windows XP-based PCs a coupon for a free or discounted upgrade to Windows Vista through March 15. As part of the deal, designed to drive PC sales though the holiday season, Microsoft will include coupons in each Windows XP SKU that will entitle users to a free or discounted Vista upgrade when the next-generation operating system ships in the first quarter of 2007, industry sources said.

          ta mick

        • #3217013

          ms bullish on vista business uptake

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to delay on vista causes other delays

          In the first year of Windows Vista’s release, Microsoft Corp. is expecting businesses to adopt it twice as fast as any other version of Windows, with 10 times as many Vista business seats deployed at launch than any previous release of the operating system. Despite this optimism, analysts still don’t expect businesses to begin adopting Vista in earnest until late 2007 or even 2008, with many waiting for the first service pack version before they consider an upgrade.

          ta mick

        • #3217012

          high definition gaming

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to delay on vista causes other delays

          NVIDIA unveils extreme high-definition gaming
          General Manager of NVIDIA GeForce GPUs, Ujesh Desai, introduces you to the NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTX, GeForce 7900 GT, and GeForce 7600 GT bringing extreme high-definition gaming to multiple market segments.
          ta mick

        • #3217009

          legacy coding problems

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to delay on vista causes other delays

          It really is about legacy practices at MS, which through their re-use of code in “new” products causes its customers to suffer the consequences. They remain more interested in getting what they consider a new product out the door to maintain a revenue stream with no regard for those that have to deal with the awful coding practices of then & now.

        • #3217000

          benq reveals new vista monitors

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to delay on vista causes other delays

          BenQ unveils Vista-approved LCD monitors
          BenQ Corp. unveiled some new flat-panel monitors Thursday that have been qualified to work with Microsoft Corp.’s upcoming Windows Vista operating system
          ta mick

        • #3289306

          how unready 64 bit is really is as stated by ms

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Vista AV

          Unbounded changes to the operating system ?kernel? can lead to system instability as well as the complete compromise of all software programs and hardware resources on a system. Consequently, the operating system kernel environment needs to be the most secure, reliable and trustworthy piece of code in Microsoft? Windows?.
          64 bitMicrosoft Windows Vista? is not only the next version of Microsoft?s operating system; it is also an inflection point for security and 64-bit computing. How these two critical ecosystem changes are handled in Windows Vista will set the stage for the long-term vision of Windows as an even more secure and reliable operating system.

          But what do we see is all ready no it’s a huge damn mess.
          ta mick

        • #3168396

          it’s not installation problembut…

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Experienced User Reporting

          When we later find out that either our hardware or software will not work either in the realm of 64 bit or 32 bit as drivers for vista are incompatible.So in essence people will be forced to buy new systems & new hardware.Don’t think that i’m anti microsoft & or anty vista far from it.We just are going to be at the mercy at whatever comes our way.Like many we’ll be the ones suffering!
          As i said i have done some core testing & i have found big compatibility problems & i know beta is beta but will they fix it in time for release.
          i have gone beyond & tested the core functionality in comparison to XP it is mere cosmetic changes but in trying to function in the 64 bit architecture i have found huge poroblems.I for one would not want to be critical as if it was as easy to install as is to function.

        • #2489930

          vista is no longer a beta it still has major problems

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Experienced User Reporting

          are you the one that’s upgraded & done your dough??
          ta mick

        • #2489861
          Avatar photo

          No actually Vista is now the final Beta Version available from M$

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to vista is no longer a beta it still has major problems

          You buy the thing and then pay M$ a lot of money to fix the problems in the OS because it doesn’t work right and M$ get paid feedback to what they need to start to fix.

          This is typical M$ Product Release Strategy since the DOS days though now the problems are far bigger and far more time consuming to fix and consequently you pay M$ far more to be told that, that bit isn’t working yet call back in another week and pay us another Thousand $ only to be told to call back the week after that. 😀

          This is the perfect Money Making method that M$ has employed since the beginning of their products and as they make so much money out of it they are unlikely to change things ever unless Laws are changed and they have to provide the support for free like they do in AU because under our Law they have to supply a [b]Marketable Product[/b] which currently Vista isn’t.

          Col

        • #2493617

          yep they allways say do you have an account with us

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to No actually Vista is now the final Beta Version available from M$

          Some of the advice i’ve had over the years
          is not worth paying for.As for vista they are going to generate heaps of money because of all the associated problems.At the moment all my pcs & my client’s pcs do not use or recommend vista usage at at all until such time as it’s fixed.
          ta mick

        • #2493533
          Avatar photo

          The last time that I rang M$ Support

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to yep they allways say do you have an account with us

          I was asked to ring back when I had a solution to the problem and tell them how I had worked around the problem. That was with SP1 for XP.

          I guess that shows just how much I ring M$ for help but it also shows why I don’t need to as I’m pretty much left on my own.

          But my all time favourite was back in the DOS days getting an error message that Device 6 was missing. After spending hours on the phone to M$ I was eventually told that I had failed to fit the CPU on a P 90 so I asked how I was getting a screen display without a CPU? Their answer was I had forgotten to fit the CPU a wipe of the HDD and reload cured the problem as it was obviously a install problem but I still get a good laugh whenever I think of that one. 😀

          Col

        • #2532753

          well you have just added more support to my

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Experienced User Reporting

          thread that there’s heaps of problems which
          people “hope”ms will fix .Pity the people that have equipment with no proper drivers.
          ta mick

        • #3208448

          Thanks, Aaron.

          by jaklauren ·

          In reply to The Bottom Line

          That’s what I want to hear, as well – what was experienced by those who have tested/are testing Vista. I’ve got Beta2 CDs sitting here on my desk at home, and I keep looking at it….!!!

        • #3205034

          good point but….

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to The Bottom Line

          The current scenario of symantec v MS proves what crap system is vista.Ms has been caught lying to the poor consumer.Symantec has tested vista & it has major reservations that vista is crap.
          At the moment Google Is challenging Ms to the fact that google want’s to lead the development of operating systems.
          ta mick

        • #3138537

          My initial appraisal was that it is not good

          by starderup ·

          In reply to The Bottom Line

          But after playing with it for a few days, it’s not bad.
          I’m running it (RC1) on an AMD Thunderbird 1100 MHz system with 384MB of ram, and it sure isn’t very speedy, but it does work.
          I’d be the last person to say Microsoft is wonderful, even though my job depends on supporting users running it, but if you have a reasonably modern system, you might like it.

        • #2485016

          well starderup results prove otherwise

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to My initial appraisal was that it is not good

          Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results

          Vista & to XP Professional Compared

          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.

          ta mick

        • #3280152

          Vista, a short test

          by johnc ·

          In reply to The Bottom Line

          Well I installed vista since my laptop hard-drive took a dive and over all I think MS may have a very good product in the works. That being said, drivers for specialty apps/hardware is almost non-existant (to be expected with beta)I like the new functionality but one thing that floored me is that they took out hyperterminal. When you look for it it sais to use telnet. /shrug I just downloaded the hyperterminal shareware app and it worked fine. The one thing that cut my test short was that it did not take the drivers for my aircard so I could not work. Just my two cents.

        • #3218988

          that’s ok

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Vista, a short test

          youv’e had you 2 cents worth but you have installed vista & uyou’ve had problems with availability of drivers & relly hyperterminal is missing & you think that ms could do more to improve vista.
          ta mick

        • #2493608

          vista users face big problems with oz internet telcos

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to that’s ok

          BigPond and Optus broadband slip on Vista
          7th February 2007 Dan Warne Internet, The Invistagator, Vista
          Customers of the largest Australian internet providers face a wait of a month or more before they’ll be able to easily connect PCs running Vista up to broadband.

          The problem stems from the largest providers’ use of cheap USB broadband modems rather than the marginally more expensive Ethernet ones that don’t require drivers.

          The drivers required for the USB modems aren’t yet available from all modem manufacturers.

          In fact, Telstra is refusing point-blank at this stage to connect new ADSL or Cable customers if they’re running Vista.

          An Optus customer service representative told APC it would not be able to connect Vista users to Optus broadband until 1st March.

          Whirlpool.net.au News Editor Phil Sweeney said it was time for providers to stop using cheap USB modems and spend a couple of dollars more per modem for ethernet models.

          “USB modems made more sense in the past when computers didn’t have Ethernet ports built in, but these days they cause more problems with drivers than they’re worth and they’re generally considered to be less reliable,” he said.

          He advised broadband users to check if their USB modem had an Ethernet port on the back as well and use that instead. However, he conceded that people might not be able to get much help from Optus or Telstra in configuring the modems, as neither company provides tech support to Vista users yet.

          However, the problem this time round is compounded by the fact that most new computers being sold at retail now have Vista pre-loaded.

          Microsoft’s stance on the modem problem
          A Microsoft Australia spokesperson said the lack of drivers for USB broadband modems “Microsoft does not develop specific hardware drivers for broadband modem or other devices. This is the responsibility of the hardware vendor to develop the driver to meet new rules for device drivers in Windows Vista. Most companies are offering updated drivers via the vendor web site for download.”

          “Vista has been in development for more than 18 months and the public date for launch known for about 3 months previously. At launch more than 1.5M devices work with Windows Vista and more than 4,200 hardware and software products have been through the rigorous Windows Hardware Quality Lab and Windows software testing process and received either a Certified for Windows Vista or a Works with Windows,” the company said.

          Microsoft Australia could not immediately provide a list of USB modems that Vista supports in its shipping driverbase, but forwarded the enquiry to Microsoft USA for response.They are still waiting.

          What the ISPs are saying
          Telstra BigPond has published an FAQ stating that it will not be able to connect new customers to ADSL or Cable if they are running Windows Vista on their computers.

          “Whenever a new operating system is introduced, hardware upgrades are required across the board. The launch of Vista means ISPs worldwide will be beholden to their hardware/modem suppliers for Vista drivers,” spokesperson Bronwyn Winley said.

          BigPond only has drivers for its wireless broadband card so far, and if you buy a new Vista computer and want to get ADSL or Cable connected, don’t call Telstra.

          OptusNet said it already supported six operating systems but “only recently learned that Vista brings with it some problem elements that require us to change our systems.”

          It is now “fast tracking” the training of staff to support Vista users and expects to have this completed in “coming months”. The telco said it would work with customers on a case-by-case basis if they had problems with OptusNet and Vista.

          On request for further information from Optus on whether the USB modems it has distributed to customers have Vista driver support but it refused.

          Netspace Managing Director Stuart Marburg said his tech support team would start supporting Vista in coming months, but needed to make sure enough members of the helpdesk team were trained in Vista before officially supporting it. He said Netcomm had supplied Vista drivers for some of its newer modems — NB5 and NB8W, but Marburg said he wanted the technical team to test the drivers further before officially supporting them.

          iiNet said it had trained all of its senior tech support staff on Vista and put Vista machines into its call centres. However, it said ongoing training of all the rest of the tech support staff was ongoing, so it was possible that customers may initially reach someone not yet trained in supporting Vista. In such cases, the customer could generally be transferred on to a Vista specialist perhaps at some indian call centre.

          Internode said its long-standing policy of supporting any operating system that included TCP/IP holds true with Vista. “Internode as a matter of policy sells and prefers to support ethernet based modems for ADSL due to their demonstrated advantages in terms of compatibility and lack of USB driver issues,” Internode Managing Director Simon Hackett.

          What the modem makers say about Vista compatibility
          Linksys told APC it was planning to support Vista on “select” devices and it has published a list of models that are currently supported or have drivers “coming soon”. An ominous footnote at the end of the page states “If your Linksys product does not appear on any of these three lists, there is no plan to support the product with Windows Vista.”

          Linksys models listed as having Vista drivers “coming soon” include AG241 and WAG54G.

          Billion Australia said the company had only ever shipped a small quantity of one USB modem at the request of a particular ISP, preferring instead to sell Ethernet models that did not require drivers. He said Billion Electric in Taiwan had not announced plans for Vista driver support for this model, BiPAC 7001, at this stage.

          Belkin modem product manager Anthony Malone said “Our F5D5730au v3000 has USB drivers for Vista. We are in final testing and should have them posted to our web site by mid Feb.” Belkin will offer tech support on products the company has been able to qualify as working with Vista.

          NETGEAR said none of its current ADSL modems or modem/routers include a USB port. However, some older single port-modems, the DM602 (discontinued in 2004) and the DG632 (discontinued in 2006) included a USB port, but also included an Ethernet port. “At this stage, it does not appear NETGEAR will be able to release Vista-compatible USB drivers for either of these devices. However, both devices do also contain an Ethernet port which does not require driver support, and will therefore work with Vista,” the company said.

          “All NETGEAR’s router and modem products are administered using a web GUI, and are able to be administered from a Vista PC without any need for an update. NETGEAR is currently rolling out formal support for customers using Vista. In the meantime, support is being provided on a best-effort basis. ”

          D-link said it was working ‘full steam ahead’ on Vista drivers for its USB modems and had added 20 drivers in the past day (including drivers for its current-model DSL-200 and DSL-502T USB modems) to its tech support site.

          The company is offering tech support for customers having difficulty getting their modem working with Vista, and is currently in the process of setting up a dedicated Vista page on its web site to make it easier for customers to get drivers.

          Netcomm said it had released drivers for the NetComm have released Vista drivers for the following products:AM5066, NB1, NB5 series, NB6 series, NB8W, NP542 / NP543 / NP544 and would have Vista drivers for other wireless and USB products “shortly”.

          Draytek, Thomson/Alcatel and OPEN Networks were contacted but are yet to respond.

          … and then there’s wireless broadband
          Wireless broadband services that use PCMCIA cards for laptops are also beholden to their hardware providers writing Vista drivers.

          Unwired said it had already produced new drivers for customers with the PCMCIA card and customers could either call in to get a CD posted to them, or download them from the Unwired web site when they’re made available in a few days’ time.

          “Like most people, we’ve known about Vista for a fair while — we’ve been monitoring it for the last 12 months and been working with the developer for the last two months,” Unwired spokesman Tyson Bowen said.

          Competitor iBurst said it had beta drivers available and expected to have final drivers available by the end of the month.

          The Telstra BigPond Wireless PCMCIA card has Vista drivers available, however customers would need to download and install the latest BigPond Wireless Connection Manager software.
          ta mick

        • #2493607

          nividia faces class action

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista users face big problems with oz internet telcos

          NVIDIA owners threaten class action over Vista drivers (or lack of them)
          6th February 2007 Dan Warne PC Hardware
          Sprung: an NVIDIA video card with “Windows Vista Ready” labeling in-storeGPU giant NVIDIA is facing a possible class action by irate users who claim they were mislead by “Vista ready” logos on NVIDIA graphic card packaging.

          The threatened lawsuit stems from the fact that NVIDIA is yet to ship final Vista-compatible drivers, while its arch-rival ATI released final drivers on the same day Vista was released to consumers.

          A website — http://www.nvidiaclassaction.org — has been set up to collect the grievances of NVIDIA GPU owners.

          NVIDIA’s latest beta Forceware drivers, version 100.59, work for some people but not others. The company has been struggling to get GeForce 8800 cards working properly under Vista, despite marketing them as having DirectX 10 compatibility.

          An earlier version, 97.46, is listed as being WHQL certified and is not listed as a beta, however a bold disclaimer notes, “These NVIDA Windows Vista drivers are under development. This version is not fully optimised for full 3D performance and may not include all available features available on different operating systems. NVIDIA, along with the industry, is continuing to update its Windows Vista drivers to ensure maximum performance on 3D applications and add support for features.”

          The company goes on to say, “These drivers are provided “AS IS.” NVIDIA MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND WHATSOVER AS TO MERCHANTABILITY, COMPATIBILITY, PERFORMANCE, APPLICATION OR FUNCTION, AND DISCLAIMS ALL SUCH WARRANTIES TO THE FULLEST EXTENT ALLOWED BY LAW.”

          In other words, “they may not work — don’t sue us.”

          The problem with that is that NVIDIA has been marketing many of its graphics cards as “Vista ready” for months, which, it could be argued, has influenced the buying decisions of thousands of people.

          While NVIDIA may argue that “Vista ready” means something specific, consumer law generally uses the interpretation of the ordinary consumer to judge what an advertising claim actually ‘means’.
          ta mick

        • #2493606

          it’s a disgrace

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to nividia faces class action

          Logitech, Creative, NVIDIA driver disgrace
          1st February 2007 James Bannan PC Hardware, Vista, Windows
          OK, time to rant for a bit. Vista is out and I?d like to be able to upgrade my main home computer. I?ve got the software ? all I need to do is throw in the DVD and I?m away.

          Why do I want to upgrade? Well, I?d like to be able to put forward loads of cogent arguments as to why Vista is such an incredible operating system for home users, but I?d need to ingest a few mind-bending substances before I could.

          To be honest, other than some nice extra applications and a new look, I can?t think of a single, substantial reason for any home user to spend the bucks and move away from Windows XP.

          I?m only considering it myself because I?d be letting myself down as an IT journo and desktop administrator not to.

          And yet, I can?t upgrade. Why not? Well, I have this embarrassing problem of owning a Creative Audigy 2 ZS soundcard and a Logitech MX3000 keyboard/mouse combo.

          They?re great products and I love using them, but apparently both vendors approach new operating systems with the same amount of trepidation as you?d approach a cobra.

          The final, shipping version of Vista has been out for two months now to business and hardware vendors and now every version of Vista is commercially available.

          And yet, Creative is still only offering beta drivers. Still, that?s better than Logitech, who aren?t offering ANY Vista solution for current devices using SetPoint at all. Actually, that?s not exactly true ? there is version 3.3 of SetPoint available, which supports a couple of the very latest Logitech keyboard/mouse combos, but nothing for other, reasonably recent devices. Guess there?s little benefit to being a loyal Logitech customer.

          Considering the sheer length of time manufacturers have had to get their drivers ready for Vista, it?s nothing short of disgraceful to find two apparent industry leaders caught in such a position ? incapable of offering their customers a smooth transition to a new operating system.

          Actually, make that three industry leaders ? NVIDIA won?t have their final-release Vista drivers out for about another month. AMD had theirs out the same day Vista was released. Intel had the vast majority of their final release drivers out when Vista RTM was released. Pay attention the rest of you ? it CAN be done! You?re just waaaaaay behind!

          I?ve spent a lot of money on my system and I?m certainly not going to spend more on it just because a couple of manufacturers haven?t got their act together. Guess that Vista upgrade is just going to have to wait — either that, or I upgrade my hardware to something compatible and vow never to buy Logitech, Creative or NVIDIA ever .
          ta mick

        • #2459192

          Nvida end users

          by wallballster ·

          In reply to nividia faces class action

          think it time that someone files a class action suit against Nvavida for providing faulty software (drivers) to their end users for the hardware they sell. They provide little or no support and continue to provide faulty drivers for their hardware.
          If anyone out there has legal expertise would like to assist, I am sure many end users would sign the necessary documents
          Please feel free to contact me at wallballster@gmail.com
          Larry Wall

      • #3156179

        My Aplogies George……..Aaron :D

        by aaron a baker ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        I Meant to place this in the main topic line and not yours.
        Sorry about the mistake.
        Regards
        Aaron

      • #3165153

        Monopolies

        by ronaldchilcoat ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        Microsoft is the perfect example of what is wrong with monopolies – Vista is reported to have 50 mil lines of code! No one at microsoft knows what is going on in the code – no one except the antichrist (Gates) has been there that long. Nothing with 50m lines of code an be stable (I say that having spent over 30 years in IT)- by luck of timing and stupidity on IBM’s part – Gates and company became a virtual monopoly on the desktop – and now we all suffer for it. Not only will Vista be full of security holes and a resource hog – but it will have many more “Big Brother” “features” built in. Just try to dup a new dvd with Vista. I for one have decided to begin learning lenux I stopped using Internet Explorer,& Outlook and always look for something other than Microsoft software for any application I want. You will not see anything good come out of Redmond until Gates & Co. have some real competition.

        • #3165136

          I couldn’t agree more

          by yobtaf ·

          In reply to Monopolies

          The bottom line is: If you want to be part of the world you will need
          to use Vista at some point. I will get it when I’m good and ready
          (and that will depend, in part, on when MS can get it together). I
          don’t like the “Big Brother” features and MS getting involved in DRM
          issues. All this just tightens its clamp on the OS business. I just
          wish it was possible for PC users to have another choice other than
          to use Linux.

        • #3165098

          MS doesn’t really have a choice on DRM.

          by mustangj369 ·

          In reply to I couldn’t agree more

          The MPAA and RIAA wrote the DCMA and paid its way through Congress. If Windows pcs are to have access to protected content, they must support DRM. I don’t like it any more than you but I can’t write checks to compete with Hollywood.
          As for other choices, there’s always Apple. Oh, wait. They have their very own DRM (FairPlay – well, fair to Apple in any event), don’t they?

        • #3165083

          Just say NO to ‘protected content’

          by jdudeck ·

          In reply to MS doesn’t really have a choice on DRM.

          Certainly we aren’t so addicted to Hollywood that we need DRM’ed content, do we?

          For that matter, I still use W2000. It is far better than XP in most ways. Vista is a no-go for me. By time that W2000 won’t run on current hardware, Linux will have gotten good enough that we can walk away from M$ altogether.

        • #3165496

          already there..

          by sir_cheats_alot ·

          In reply to Just say NO to ‘protected content’

          someone will find a way around DRM, they always do. i have a copy of Win2k Pro, but i encountered stability issues with SP4 and it crashed out and i was presented with the BSOD. after being forced to reformat four times, i reinstalled XP w/SP2 and haven’t really had many problems since…so i can’t say win2000 is any better then XP. As Far as Linux goes, i’m already using it…in fact i’m using Ubuntu 5.10 “breezy badger” while i type this. I must say Linux has come a L O N G way in the last few years. now there is a way to read and now write to a NTFS file system under linux. WiFi is now supported. From what i hear Myth TV works quite well now. Linux is making some very nice advancements now…except grub…that never seems to change. There are a few Distros that are targeted at the expected migrating windows users. while some don’t support proprietary format out of the box, the codecs are in repositories for download, so with a little effort those coming from windows shouldn’t have too much trouble(given the great support of each respective linux community, and of course google 😉 ) i have NeverWinter Nights diamond edition v1.67 working under linux (and it hasn’t crashed once by the way), so i’m perfectly happy on linux.

        • #3113730

          you are 110percent right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to already there..

          i respect your right to use any system you want.
          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3224461

          Don’t be so sure.

          by jdbwar07 ·

          In reply to already there..

          I’m not an expert on things like this, but from what I read, it probably won’t be possible to hack the new DRM measures for HD content. Just because the DVD standard was cracked doesn’t mean in the future it’ll be so simple.

          Hollywood was careless with the CSS standard, it was weakly designed, they didn’t have any experience with that kind of thing before.

          However, now it’s much more sophisticated. Not just the actual content is DRMed but all the hardware (many supposedly HD-ready monitors and video cards won’t be able to play HD content at full resolution because they didn’t include the HDCP drm). When the whole system is protected it just isn’t likely or possible.

          Also, the new standard uses a much higher grade encryption than CSS. From what I read, it would all the computing power there currently is in the world more than like 100 billion years to crack, basically longer than the lifespan of the universe.

          Finally, when Hollywood releases a new HD disk, they specifically program it so only devices with certain keys will work with it. So even if, say, an HDTV manufacturer’s key is made public, and then someone releases devices to strip the copy protection from them, they’ll just revoke that specific key so new DVDs won’t work with it anymore.

          Again, if you care about things like fair use and your rapidly-disappearing digital rights it’s best to speak up now before they become history (the EFF is a good site to look at). This has to be widely opposed and the DMCA should be reformed or revoked.

          Again, I’m not saying it’s impossible at some future point there won’t be a way around the DRM, however it’s probably naive to just do nothing and take for granted that hackers will solve this, just because they’ve done so at times in the past.

        • #3113732

          you arespot on!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Just say NO to ‘protected content’

          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3224257

          in answe to jdwar there are means & ways people can work around

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to you arespot on!

          the copyright protection.Just because the say it’s foolproof doesn’t mean it is.The more they think that they’ve solved the problem when they haven’t.You make a valid point but in due time everyone will be circumvent all forms of protection.
          ta mick

        • #3140710

          Right On!!!

          by rlgoers ·

          In reply to Just say NO to ‘protected content’

          Dude – you got it! The ONLY (and I mean ***ONLY***) reason I’m running WinXP is for the LCD Cleartype feature. If I still had any CRT monitors, I would still be using Win2000. It is a FAR superior OS! No bloat, runs fast, and is more secure! I have every stupid animation/shadow/slow-your-system-down XP “feature” set to OFF. Anywhere XP offers a “2000-like” setting, I have it selected. XP sucks, plain and simple. Vista will be worse. Just wait until M$ starts deleting stuff from your hard drive, because they determined you don’t have proper rights to it. Welcome to Vista, and DRM-extreme!

          As for XP security; Did you know you can walk up to any WinXP machine, feed it an XP boot disk, and be in? Try that with Win2K. Doesn’t work!

          I have to agree… by the time I’m forced to run Vista, I’ll have all *nix systems. M$ will have no one to blame but their DRM-kissing selves.

        • #3139905

          Well…

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Right On!!!

          Use the sub-pixel smoothing feature in Linux and switch now…we don’t want whiny people using “our” OS.

          You complain and complain about Windows but I’d bet you have used it since Win 3.1. So many people on TR complain about Windows yet most still use Windows and not Linux or they use both and not Linux exclusively. Put your money where your mouth is.

          One man’s bloat is another man’s feature. Notice Linux is getting awful bloated lately?

          Have you tried a beta version of Vista or are you just ranting again?

          Who needs a XP boot disk? I can get into any version of Windows, including your acclaimed 2000, with a Linux CD.

          About the only thing I can agree with you here is about the DRM. However, that’s being driven by outside forces as much as it is by Microsoft.

          BTW, good luck with your W2K security.

        • #3218981

          your right on the bloat,the feedback i got was

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Right On!!!

          that 2000 is stable & people swear by it.So bloat is not the answer.Lean is mean.Also i have met heaps of people who refuse to use ms internet explorer & also ms products that ms can monitor.
          ta mick

        • #2498562

          100 % right there son vista is not good enough

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Right On!!!

          We are all using XP until & if Ms get’s it’s act together it is a big flop.You can only use the dvd as an expensive coaster!
          ta mick

        • #3276210

          you would expect that in the coming months

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Just say NO to ‘protected content’

          But seriously: You should expect a whole lot more of this “Windows Vista” coverage in the next few months. Note that none Of it will be negative and none of it will mention the features which should have made it in if Microsoft actually paid any attention to people outside their payroll.
          Do you think that ms realy cares.
          not on your nellie.
          ta mick

        • #3276207

          vista is scrap

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Just say NO to ‘protected content’

          But seriously: You should expect a whole lot more of this “Windows Vista” coverage in the next few months. Note that none Of it will be negative and none of it will mention the features which should have made it in if Microsoft actually paid any attention to people outside their payroll.
          Do you think that ms realy cares.
          not on your nellie.
          ta mick

        • #2483831

          Vista = crap

          by paul.opensource ·

          In reply to Just say NO to ‘protected content’

          I stopped using windows at home years ago. I’ve been a Linux user since 1998 and I currently use it as my only operating system at home. Windows, in any variety, is a complete joke, and I cannot believe consumers and businesses have been misled by microsoft into buying it. It is the worst implementation of an operating system I have ever seen. Vista is just one more steaming pile by microsoft that consumers will have to put up with until the next version.

          OK, will get off my soapbox now 🙂

        • #3165068

          Solution for the DRM problem

          by tryten ·

          In reply to MS doesn’t really have a choice on DRM.

          Run vista virtualized under an Linux distro….
          I am currently doing that with xp pro. Or when its possible run something like DSL (damn small linux) virtualized. With a good system you can run both without a problem. And when something gets infested with DRMs reload them. Virtualization is so fun.

        • #3113729

          you arespot on!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Solution for the DRM problem

          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3113734

          the spider is tangled in it’s own net!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to MS doesn’t really have a choice on DRM.

          The bottom line is that they were to release 64 bit & it has many shortcomings & the future is not rosy with DRM.
          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3199131

          IF you have such incredible skills and you have “Done it”

          by wolf13 ·

          In reply to the spider is tangled in it’s own net!

          WOW – GEEZ — The Computer Buddha– I think we should all bow down, for this man has done it all.
          First and foremost go back to school where you got yor masters and ask them to teach you to type.
          Now if you can get over your self without tripping over your inflated ego take your much vaunted (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vaunted) skills and develop your own operating system so I can install it on my computer systems, which would im sure would make me the envy of the computing world

        • #2532376

          MS vista is a complete failure employees have finally

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to the spider is tangled in it’s own net!

          admitted.Microsoft employees in Vista revolt

          Bring me the head of Monkey Boy

          By Nick Farrell: Thursday 23 March 2006, 07:22

          WHILE THE markets and the IT press are castigating Microsoft for releasing Vista late, it appears that Vole is suffering from an attack from its own staff over the decision.
          According to an insider bog, the staff are up in arms about the move.

          The blog is fuming that Microsoft will not only miss the back to school market, but will also now lose the Christmas sales period.

          “Vista’s deployment is going to come from people buying CPUs with the OS pre-installed, not dancing down the CompUSA aisle as they clutch that boxed version of Vista to their loving chest,” the bog says.

          The bog, which is backed by hundreds of similar comments from Microsoft employees, says that managers should be offering their resignations for the delay. Other comments called for the head of “Monkey Boy” while others said that it is time for a shareholder revolt.

          “Vista is the biggest software development failure of all time, IBM’s office vision was the previous record holder, with $900 million spent? Vista has cost five or six billion,” the poster moaned.

          However, one person, who claimed to work in the Windows department said that Vista simply was not ready to ship.

          “If you had spent the last five years of your life grinding away to get this thing out the door, you would have realized the only thing worse than slipping the date, would have been to lay a turd in August. Those of us in the trenches (front-line L61 PM here, on a real feature set, not one of those useless COSD bureaucrats) see exactly what bugs are between us and shipping.” ?
          well guys i’ve been saying this all allong
          at the risk of saying what the hell i told you so.
          ta mick

        • #2532373

          vista is a failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to MS vista is a complete failure employees have finally

          RapidFire
          Jan 27th, 2007 at 15:33
          It is a failure, look at the reviews at download.com on that thing, it?s stupid.

          And woah, $400+ for that thing? (check out my blog for an ironic pic on that price thing) So I spend what, 3 years mastering XP to make it stable enough so it doesn?t keep freezing over and over and crashing and so on, and now vista which users say has things moved around so that you have to rememorize where stuff is? Hell no.

          Plus you can skin xp with all that stuff out there now. It?s too late for that windows tilting feature to get that much good use of it, there?s probably some freeware out there that has some more efficient way of seeing what window is where anyways, and with firefox and other tabbed browsers (besides IEcrap7) who cares about tilting?

          And linux has some weird ability to not just tilt, but rotate windows in a cube form (like the borg, that was cool, heh).

          Look world, forget vista, here are your healthy choices:

          1. XP
          2. OSX
          3. Linux
          4. Amiga

          Bye vista, you?re 5 years late to class, F-.

          2 CD
          Mar 6th, 2007 at 7:42
          Good for Landfill at the local tip, the shiny disc surface might scare some seagulls to relieve their contents on it.

          3 Gordon Sutton
          Mar 9th, 2007 at 22:01
          VISTA = Expensive FAILURE

          4 Gordon Sutton
          Mar 9th, 2007 at 22:02
          VIST – Latest ME failure

          5 Jonathan
          Mar 26th, 2007 at 11:09
          I used Microsoft for the majority of my life. I am a Master level user, and only up until 5 years ago did I discover the wonder that is Mac OsX.

          One of my good friends works at Office Depot as a salesman, and I said to him, ?so?How has Vista gone??

          ..and he just sighs out, rubs his face and says??I don?t even wanna talk about it dude?

          Yeah? that pretty much says it all.

          Leave a Reply
          Name

          Mail (will not be published)

          Website

          ——————————————————————————–
          ? Back to driving ? damnI still got it? ?
          ——————————————————————————–

        • #2532370

          vista is a failure=dude

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to MS vista is a complete failure employees have finally

          CD
          Mar 6th, 2007 at 7:42
          Good for Landfill at the local tip, the shiny disc surface might scare some seagulls to relieve their contents on it.

          3 Gordon Sutton
          Mar 9th, 2007 at 22:01
          VISTA = Expensive FAILURE

        • #3224466

          Reply

          by jdbwar07 ·

          In reply to MS doesn’t really have a choice on DRM.

          They don’t have to. Whatever shady deal went on, Microsoft doesn’t (and never) object to it. Besides most computers run Windows, and Micrsoft is probably bigger than any singly Hollywood studio, so it could resist the pressure if it actually cared about the consumers.

          Also, Fairplay is NOTHING compared to Hollywood’s standards for HD-DVD and HDCP. Many HD televisions, computer monitors, and graphics cards (even the latest ones) won’t even be able to play it, not because they can’t, but because hollywood won’t let them.

        • #3224254

          defintely right there

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Reply

          I’ts more of a push for the consumer to part with their money,whether it’s the right thing to do is another matter.
          ta mick

        • #3165012

          Another OS?

          by willjamr ·

          In reply to I couldn’t agree more

          “I just wish it was possible for PC users to have another choice other than to use Linux.”

          Heard of BSD? It’s *not* Linux.

        • #3113728

          you are right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Another OS?

          yes vista is another system…And with lot’s of shortcomings.You wonder why they are pushing it so hard i’ts themight $.
          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3165512

          other than —

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to I couldn’t agree more

          What about Mac??
          Besides, the only real issues with Linux for beginners is installing apps, setup config, and app availability.
          I am currently running Linux SUSE 10 on KDE and have gotten pretty good at the basic things. I cant play a DVD yet (trouble installing media players) but after 2 days of it I was able to get myself up and running with Thunderbird email, Opera and Firefox (and Konquerer) browsers (all 3 are working), dual screen on a notebook, setup background and some security, setup printers, figured out how to communicate with my XP boxes, etc.
          In other words, it originally took me longer than that to learn Win 95. I can do most of my work with SUSE now, with just a few days of getting to know it.
          However, I still wish for a better install system. I hate browsing for companion files and making 7 or 8 downloads and installing them all (in a certain sequence) to get 1 program working.

        • #3277250

          Linux for the masses try Linspire

          by w.j.eichler ·

          In reply to other than —

          I am using Linspire and have only had some minor problems with it. The best part is their software installation process. As long as you have a fast internet connection it works very well. They have many free products in their CRM warehouse and they install without much user interaction. The downside is that you have to pay for the OS and the service. When you consider value for the dollar though it is pretty cheap. For about $49.00 a year you download and install all of the free applications you want, including Open Office, Firefox, Opera, Realplayer, etc. The OS can be purchased for about $49.00 also.

          Their tech support is knowledgeable and responsive, much more so than MS. When I needed them they provided support not a way to find support. The fix worked the first time.

          If you are looking for an alternative give them a try. Until some OS other than MS starts getting paying users, they will always be second rate. Linux is a strong kernel and with some standardization and funding could put MS on the run. This would result in better MS products. Look at Intel; until they were pushed by AMD they made slow progress, as they felt it was profitable. When they started to get their butt kicked, they came up with Conroe.

          As for Mac being competition, didn’t Gates bail out Mac not too many years ago? Does anyone remember the Godfather?

        • #3113736

          spot on you are right & microsoft iswrong!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I couldn’t agree more

          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3277059

          Please learn to edit.

          by rebelflag ·

          In reply to spot on you are right & microsoft iswrong!

          For someone who is allegedly a code writer, could you please learn to edit your posts. It really is not necessary to keep posting the same thing over and over again. Please. If you want to get real adventurous you could also give spelling and punctuation a run.

        • #3166716

          point taken

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Please learn to edit.

          it’s more when you are on the fly,rush rush,keys on key board sometimes stick,kids spilling drinks.
          point taken much appreciate it.
          ta mick

        • #3165072

          Whatever

          by emar1000 ·

          In reply to Monopolies

          I don?t necessarily like everything MS does but you know what? Deal with it. I respect your over 30 years of exp. But instead of bashing do something about it. Get some business savvy and start pushing the OS of your choice. It wouldn?t matter who is heading up the best OS out there. The same bashers now would be the same bashers then. It doesn?t take a rocket scientist to do a search of other OS?s security flaws.

          Oh and 80% of the time I use Linux.
          Its just a favorite past time to bash the leader. Be a little more constructive.

        • #2489922

          BIG trouble with vista compatibility

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Whatever

          From zdnet forum by david berlind
          Trouble in Vista paradise? Large software vendor warns of major compatibility problems and burdensome remedies.
          Intuit, developer of one of the world’s most popular accounting applications used in small, medium and large businesses (Quickbooks), has notified its customers by email that Windows Vista is incompatible with some of the features of Quickbooks 2006. According to the email (see a complete image of it here) from Intuit senior vice president of QuickBooks Brad Smith:

          You may have heard about the upcoming release of Microsoft’s new operating system, Windows Vista. Microsoft has made significant changes to how software runs on Windows Vista.

          I’m sending you this important service alert because you are using a 2006 or earlier version of QuickBooks software.

          Since QuickBooks 2006 and earlier versions were developed and released before the introduction of Windows Vista, these versions may be adversely affected when used on computer running Windows Vista.

          This will impact Simple Start, Basic, Pro, Premier, Payroll and Point of Sale, as well as other QuickBooks products and services. We recognize that your QuickBooks software is an important business tool and apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.

          Smith’s e-mail goes on to describe what action is required on behalf of Quickbooks customers. For example, if they’re not going to be running Vista, they don’t need to do anything. But, if customers are upgrading to Vista, then they need to spend more time figuring out whether or not they’ll run into compatibility problems based on what features of QuickBooks they use. To do this, users are advised to visit Inuit’s Web site where the software company provides very detailed information on the affected features and what the remedy is.

          Unfortunately, for many of the features, end-users are advised that they must switch on Windows XP compatibility and run Windows Vista with system administrator privileges. However, one of the cornerstones of Vista’s security and a long-time recommendation of Microsoft is to run Windows (even XP) as what’s know as a lesser privileged user or LPU. When running Windows with system administrator privileges, the risk that malware could enter the system and damage precious system files thereby destabilizing or ruining a PC altogether goes way up. Malware would of course have to find its way into the system in the first place. But security experts including those at Microsoft have always urged extreme caution when it comes to running Windows as a system administrator. Doing so gives software that’s installed on a PC (including any malware) access to sensitive areas that it wouldn’t otherwise have access to (thereby increasing the chances of a catastrophic event). So, in essence, one remedy is to deactivate one of Windows’ most important security features.

          Beyond that, there is still another list of QuickBook features that are incompatible with Vista to the point that even switching into the XP Compatibility and Administrator modes won’t help. Here, the only remedy is to upgrade to QuickBooks 2007.

          According to Intuit spokesperson Rachel Euretig, QuickBooks 2007 was launched in the Fall as a version of the software that was designed to be Vista compatible. Euretig told me that prior to that, there wasn’t much Intuit could do on the Vista compatibility front since the operating system was still in development. In an effort to be as communicative as possible, Euretig says the company is still searching for potential problems and taking a proactive stance when it comes to notifying customers of its findings.

          Still, ZDNet reader Al Chartier who was the first to tip me off to the problem says he’s not satisfied. According to Chartier, Intuit’s suggested remedy means that he must pay $200 for QuickBooks Pro 2007 (editor’s note: Right now, Intuit is offering the software at a $20 discount) Euretig says that QuickBook customers who purchased Quickbooks 2006 on or after July 26th are entitled to a free upgrade to the 2007 version. Euretig also said there is no special upgrade price for existing QuickBook customers. All customers (new or existing) must pay the same price. According to Chartier, ” I won’t be buying any more Intuit software.”

          In the bigger picture, the problem with QuickBooks raises new and very serious issues for Microsoft on the eve of Vista’s launch. If the software title was a small and very vertically oriented program that falls into the category of collateral damage that Microsoft must accept every time it releases a major new version of an operating system, the damage would be minimal. But Intuit is a software bellwether and QuickBooks one of the most popular software titles in the industry (Update: Euretig says that at the time of QuickBooks 2007’s launch, there were 3.7 million active users of QuickBooks).

          Not only should the compatibility questions and remedies cause small and medium business users to reconsider any plans to upgrade, enterprises may need to put the brakes on as well. Intuit offers an enterprise version of its tools (starting at $3,000) which means that any large business that’s a QuickBooks customer that’s thinking of moving to Vista may have to think again. Not only must they examine how many users within the business might be impacted, they also must (a) look at the cost of upgrading should that be the only other remedy and (b) wait to see if other software vendors begin to issue similar warnings. Based on what Intuit’s Euretig told me, the company is still looking for problems other than the ones listed on its Web site; a situation that can only mean that other software vendors are doing the same. In other words, the full x-industry backwards compatibility report on Windows Vista is still in flux.

          Earlier today, my colleague George Ou posted a blog on how backwards compatibility problems between ActiveX and the new version of Internet Explorer 7 are causing most of South Korea to hold off on upgrading to Vista because of how incompatibilities could interfere with that country’s banking system.

          Another fire this snafu is sure to fuel is rhetoric from the part of the Web 2.0 camp that offers alternatives to locally hosted programs like QuickBooks. For example, this problem with upgrades is exactly the sort of problem that NetSuite CEO Zach Nelson uses to justify his browser-based hosted solution over his competitor QuickBooks. With browser-based hosted solutions such as NetSuite, compatibility with the browsers is all that’s important (and something that hosted solution providers like NetSuite have plenty of time to resolve).

          I’ve reached out to Microsoft for its take on the issue with the position that Intuit is indeed a bellwether software developer and how incompatibilities with its software could cause the entire industry to take a deep breath. Not only does this affect potential upgrades to Vista on existing systems, the problem also has ramifications for hardware vendors who are hoping to capitalize on Vista’s launch by offering a slew of new systems that are pre-loaded with Microsoft’s new flagship OS. I’ve yet to hear back.
          Intuit, developer of one of the world’s most popular accounting applications used in small, medium and large businesses (Quickbooks), has notified its customers by email that Windows Vista is incompatible with some of the features of Quickbooks 2006. According to the email (see a complete image of it here) from Intuit senior vice president of QuickBooks Brad Smith:

          You may have heard about the upcoming release of Microsoft’s new operating system, Windows Vista. Microsoft has made significant changes to how software runs on Windows Vista.

          I’m sending you this important service alert because you are using a 2006 or earlier version of QuickBooks software.

          Since QuickBooks 2006 and earlier versions were developed and released before the introduction of Windows Vista, these versions may be adversely affected when used on computer running Windows Vista.

          This will impact Simple Start, Basic, Pro, Premier, Payroll and Point of Sale, as well as other QuickBooks products and services. We recognize that your QuickBooks software is an important business tool and apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.

          Smith’s e-mail goes on to describe what action is required on behalf of Quickbooks customers. For example, if they’re not going to be running Vista, they don’t need to do anything. But, if customers are upgrading to Vista, then they need to spend more time figuring out whether or not they’ll run into compatibility problems based on what features of QuickBooks they use. To do this, users are advised to visit Inuit’s Web site where the software company provides very detailed information on the affected features and what the remedy is.

          Unfortunately, for many of the features, end-users are advised that they must switch on Windows XP compatibility and run Windows Vista with system administrator privileges. However, one of the cornerstones of Vista’s security and a long-time recommendation of Microsoft is to run Windows (even XP) as what’s know as a lesser privileged user or LPU. When running Windows with system administrator privileges, the risk that malware could enter the system and damage precious system files thereby destabilizing or ruining a PC altogether goes way up. Malware would of course have to find its way into the system in the first place. But security experts including those at Microsoft have always urged extreme caution when it comes to running Windows as a system administrator. Doing so gives software that’s installed on a PC (including any malware) access to sensitive areas that it wouldn’t otherwise have access to (thereby increasing the chances of a catastrophic event). So, in essence, one remedy is to deactivate one of Windows’ most important security features.

          Beyond that, there is still another list of QuickBook features that are incompatible with Vista to the point that even switching into the XP Compatibility and Administrator modes won’t help. Here, the only remedy is to upgrade to QuickBooks 2007.

          According to Intuit spokesperson Rachel Euretig, QuickBooks 2007 was launched in the Fall as a version of the software that was designed to be Vista compatible. Euretig told me that prior to that, there wasn’t much Intuit could do on the Vista compatibility front since the operating system was still in development. In an effort to be as communicative as possible, Euretig says the company is still searching for potential problems and taking a proactive stance when it comes to notifying customers of its findings.

          Still, ZDNet reader Al Chartier who was the first to tip me off to the problem says he’s not satisfied. According to Chartier, Intuit’s suggested remedy means that he must pay $200 for QuickBooks Pro 2007 (editor’s note: Right now, Intuit is offering the software at a $20 discount) Euretig says that QuickBook customers who purchased Quickbooks 2006 on or after July 26th are entitled to a free upgrade to the 2007 version. Euretig also said there is no special upgrade price for existing QuickBook customers. All customers (new or existing) must pay the same price. According to Chartier, ” I won’t be buying any more Intuit software.”

          In the bigger picture, the problem with QuickBooks raises new and very serious issues for Microsoft on the eve of Vista’s launch. If the software title was a small and very vertically oriented program that falls into the category of collateral damage that Microsoft must accept every time it releases a major new version of an operating system, the damage would be minimal. But Intuit is a software bellwether and QuickBooks one of the most popular software titles in the industry (Update: Euretig says that at the time of QuickBooks 2007’s launch, there were 3.7 million active users of QuickBooks).

          Not only should the compatibility questions and remedies cause small and medium business users to reconsider any plans to upgrade, enterprises may need to put the brakes on as well. Intuit offers an enterprise version of its tools (starting at $3,000) which means that any large business that’s a QuickBooks customer that’s thinking of moving to Vista may have to think again. Not only must they examine how many users within the business might be impacted, they also must (a) look at the cost of upgrading should that be the only other remedy and (b) wait to see if other software vendors begin to issue similar warnings. Based on what Intuit’s Euretig told me, the company is still looking for problems other than the ones listed on its Web site; a situation that can only mean that other software vendors are doing the same. In other words, the full x-industry backwards compatibility report on Windows Vista is still in flux.

          Earlier today, my colleague George Ou posted a blog on how backwards compatibility problems between ActiveX and the new version of Internet Explorer 7 are causing most of South Korea to hold off on upgrading to Vista because of how incompatibilities could interfere with that country’s banking system.

          Another fire this snafu is sure to fuel is rhetoric from the part of the Web 2.0 camp that offers alternatives to locally hosted programs like QuickBooks. For example, this problem with upgrades is exactly the sort of problem that NetSuite CEO Zach Nelson uses to justify his browser-based hosted solution over his competitor QuickBooks. With browser-based hosted solutions such as NetSuite, compatibility with the browsers is all that’s important (and something that hosted solution providers like NetSuite have plenty of time to resolve).

          I’ve reached out to Microsoft for its take on the issue with the position that Intuit is indeed a bellwether software developer and how incompatibilities with its software could cause the entire industry to take a deep breath. Not only does this affect potential upgrades to Vista on existing systems, the problem also has ramifications for hardware vendors who are hoping to capitalize on Vista’s launch by offering a slew of new systems that are pre-loaded with Microsoft’s new flagship OS. I’ve yet to hear back.
          Well that means there are huge issues with vista & it doesn’t look like they are going to get resolved.
          ta mick

        • #2489889

          gsaravine-last time I Post here-You know why Quickbooks won’t work

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to BIG trouble with vista compatibility

          and it is because Intuit is lazy and designed it wrong. But then genius that you are. You already knew that. Why do youy think that Quickbooks was never certified for Windows XP. It was because they took shortcuts to communicate via the registry which MS has said since Windows 2000 came on sale, was the wrong way to do that.
          ]The Korea news is just that OLD news.
          Just let the thread die=I am.
          MIke

        • #2493620

          i do setups for small businesses & chartered

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to BIG trouble with vista compatibility

          accountants occssionally & none of them want vista on their systems because of the unknown.They can’t afford to loose money & time on vista.
          They are quite happy to stay with XP.
          Similarly i don’t know of any financial institution or insurance companies that are ready to take up vista now or in the immediate future.There’s too much at risk!
          ta mick
          Ps michael you were off for a while i thought you might be sick

        • #2534379

          The honey moon is over with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to BIG trouble with vista compatibility

          Vista’s honeymoon is over
          March 19, 2007
          Icon

          Despite the fanfare at its launch, Vista has received a mixed reaction, writes Roulla Yiacoumi.

          AdvertisementIn one of the new “Get a Mac” ads on television, PC appears wearing a hospital gown, prompting Apple to ask if he’s going in for a check-up. “Well,” PC says, “I’m upgrading to Vista today, which is great, but I get a little nervous when they mess around with my insides.”

          Apple fans may have a bit of a chuckle but early adopters who rushed out and bought Microsoft’s new operating system, Windows Vista, as well as more system and graphics memory, have failed to see the funny side.

          Since Vista was launched on January 30, its creator has been racking up negative commentary.

          “Utterly unimaginative, internally discordant and woefully out of tune,” was the verdict at Forbes.com . “Wait for half a year until the driver issues are settled and then buy a new PC,” the BBC instructed its readers. “Not yet ready for prime time,” USA Today wrote.

          The blogosphere hasn’t been much kinder. Stories detailing lengthy installations, absent drivers, frequent crashes and overzealous “security” prompts are littered throughout the net.

          One user angry at the limitations of Vista wrote a blog entry that struck a chord with hundreds of readers. Author and technology enthusiast Chris Pirillo of Seattle wrote “Vista: I’m breaking up with you” after installing and testing the operating system. He came up with a shopping list of problems he encountered including a non-functioning scanner, Windows Movie Maker crashing on a regular basis, Explorer losing settings and fax software that refuses to work under the new operating system. Pirillo has vowed to switch back to XP for his primary desktop machine.

          “There are certain things I’m willing to deal with and live with,” he said. “But when it starts interrupting my productivity, my daily life, I can’t deal with it. I want to ask Microsoft to take stock of the situation. People who are buying Vista machines are having issues. What are you going to do about it?”

          As the new operating system suddenly renders various peripherals and applications obsolete, Microsoft has moved quickly to hose down claims the operating system was rushed out the door in a less than perfect state.

          Paul Randle, Microsoft Australia’s consumer audience marketing manager, says Vista has been received “phenomenally well” since its launch a month ago. “We completely refute the product wasn’t ready. Negative feedback has been in the minority.”

          Randle says there are 1.5 million devices compatible with Vista and new drivers are constantly becoming available.

          It’s too early for official sales figures but Australian retailers have reported strong activity. Rutland Smith, general manager of computers and communications at Harvey Norman, says the retailer will sell 50 per cent of all copies of Vista in Australia.

          Smith says he’s been “thrilled” with Vista sales to date. There has been some increased demand for support, but this is normal, he says. “With the release of any new OS, you will see the occasional glitch.”

          Given the increased hardware requirements, Smith says it’s important customers talk to sales staff to ensure they get the right version of Vista.

          Even better news for Harvey Norman, of course, is that users will need to upgrade different bits of their PCs to get Vista working optimally. This year will be a very good one for hardware sales, Smith says.

          Users should not be surprised better hardware is needed to run the latest operating system, says Martin Gilliland, research director at Gartner. “Microsoft has never tried to hide that fact or shied away from it,” he says. “If you want to get the new operating system, you will need to upgrade your hardware.”

          Most consumers will avoid the upgrade route altogether and simply buy their next PC with Vista pre-installed. Gartner is predicting that by 2010, 72 per cent of machines sold to consumers will come with Vista.

          And the rest? “Seven to 10 per cent will have Mac, less than 3 per cent will have Linux and the rest [15 per cent] will be people downgrading Vista to XP,” Gilliland says.

          Sounds like a cue for another Mac ad.

          MashUp Blog: What happened to the WOW?
          Well there was no wow factor just as i had predicted performance has been woefull
          & people by & large are pissed off with ms.
          ta mick

        • #2534375

          Adobe does not want to embrace vista without

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to The honey moon is over with vista

          Charging extra$$$ for an upgrade.
          It is a woefull fact but.

          Adobe Has No Plans To Make Current Products Windows Vista Compatible

          Adobe says it has no plans to issue updates to the current versions of its products to ensure Windows Vista compatibility.

          By Paul McDougall
          InformationWeek

          March 19, 2007 11:00 AM

          Users of Adobe Systems’ digital publishing products, including Photoshop, InDesign, and Dreamweaver, will have to shell out for new versions of the software if they want to run them without glitches on Microsoft’s new Windows Vista operating system, Adobe says.

          According to a statement posted on Adobe’s Web site, the company “does not plan to issue updates to current versions of those products for Windows Vista compatibility.”

          That means users will have to pay hundreds of dollars to upgrade their Adobe software if they want trouble-free performance on Windows Vista, which is now preinstalled in virtually all new PCs shipping in the United States. That’s because the current versions of most of Adobe’s major products won’t work properly on the new operating system.

          Adobe Photoshop CS2, for instance, requires users to register the software each time it’s launched on a Windows Vista PC, even if it’s already been registered. Dreamweaver 8, Adobe warns, will crash on some Vista computers when users browse for files. InDesign customers, meanwhile, may get a false error message indicating they do not have enough available disk space to run the product.

          Adobe lists a number of other known Windows Vista compatibility problems for those and other products. Additionally, Adobe Acrobat 8 encounters errors when run atop the new Windows OS, but the company says it plans to issue a free patch in the first half of 2007 to resolve those issues.

          The bottom line is that Adobe customers who are satisfied with the current versions of their software will have little choice but to pay for upgrades if they buy a new PC this year. Adobe says the newest versions of Photoshop, InDesign, Dreamweaver, and several other products will ship this spring and will be fully compatible with Windows Vista.

          Tensions between Adobe and Microsoft may be partly behind Adobe’s less than warm embrace of Windows Vista, the consumer version of which launched in January. Adobe recently accused Microsoft of violating European Union trade laws, claiming that Microsoft’s bundling of Vista and the XML Paper Specification document creation application — a potential competitor to Acrobat — is anticompetitive.

          Adobe officials were not immediately available to comment.
          i knew this was going to happen as vendors aren’t willing to take the pressure from ms.Adobe isn’t so readily going to change.
          ta mick

        • #2534373

          ongoing issues with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Adobe does not want to embrace vista without

          #1Latest DivX bundle causes Media Center to crash/hang

          To my dismay, Media Center does not like DivX… Unfortunately, the only way to alleviate this would be to uninstall…

          I’m trying to find a fix for this… hopefully I come up with something soon… or Microsoft (maybe)…
          ta mick

        • #2534372

          ongoing issues with vista single drive vista installation

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Adobe does not want to embrace vista without

          Single Drive Vista Installation

          As it turns out, installing Vista Ultimate with more than one (1) HD connected is a No-No. You will receive an error message along the lines of…

          “Windows is unable to find a system volume that meets the installation requirements”.

          To get around this… just leave the drive that you are going to install Vista onto connected.

          ta mick

        • #2534371

          issues with dial up modems

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Adobe does not want to embrace vista without

          some modems supplied with dell systems is incompatible with . Dell has asked if I’d installed the old modem and when I told them I had they said I had to do a fresh system restore as Vista does not like uninstalling things. They also asked me to ring them to go through the new modem installation as it is not as straightforward as sticking the cd in, then plugging the modem in.
          ta mick

        • #2534369

          ongoing issues with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Adobe does not want to embrace vista without

          1) My DVD-RW Drive (Pioneer DVR-710) isnt being recognized. Its just not there. I have spotted it a couple times but it goes away with a restart. (All cables are plugged in and it was functional with XP). This is highly irratating.

          2) Creative Xfi Extreme Gamer sound card does not function correctly. This may be because it is a BETA vista driver, but any info out there helps put my mind at ease. My speakers are set at 5.1, but the surround sound satellites do not work correctly. Additionally, Vista was giving me only two options in control panel: Mono, or Stereo. I have 5.1…. why would Vista tell me I dont? Is it driver-related?
          ta mick

        • #2534363

          Partners point out ten annoying problems with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Adobe does not want to embrace vista without

          Partners report 10 annoying Vista problems as conflicts dampen debut
          By Paula Rooney, CRN Platforms & Applications

          Vista users facing a higher than usual number of conflicts.

          Partners are annoyed by the abundance of software and hardware incompatibilities surfacing as Windows Vista is deployed to more early adopters.

          The software giant launched Vista and a companion update called Windows Vista Application Compatibility Update to the market on January 30.

          That update, KB929427, handles some of the more problematic application incompatibilities, but the nightmare is far from over, partners say.

          It’s typical for these conflicts to appear shortly after an operating system is released. The big problem with Vista is not only the number of incompatibilities with existing applications but also the lack of drivers for critical hardware components and hardware peripherals, partners say.

          One partner said he is surprised by the lack of Vista drivers available for basic hardware components that keep a PC running.

          “Customers upgrading Vista in place may find getting support for existing hardware very challenging,” said Phil Aldrich, North American Microsoft Practice Manager for Dimension Data North America, a US$3.1 billion solution provider.

          “Tons of vendors haven’t done Vista drivers and that’s left a big hole in support. I can understand when it comes to printers and scanners, but when we’re talking about hard drives, chipset controllers and video cards, things that run the PC, it’s surprising,” he said. “It’s not just peripherals but primary component manufacturers aren’t ready, and that unusual compared to the previous releases of Windows.”

          According to various solution providers contacted by CRN, here are the 10 biggest problems faced by early adopters of Vista out of the gate:

          1. Lack of available drivers from ISVs causing application conflicts;

          2. Lack of available drivers for existing and new peripherals and hardware components;

          3. Buggy drivers;

          4. New security feature often flags existing applications as suspicious and interrupts service;

          5. Few applications aside from Vista and Office 2007 take advantage of user account control;

          6. Customers are confused by Office 2007’s ribbon-like user interface;

          7. The OS automatically recommends which Vista versions is best for each PCs configuration. This will cause small businesses to download different versions of Vista;

          8. Benefits of Vista and Office 2007 running together are not obvious. Partners and IT staff need training for maximum ROI;

          9. Deployment isn’t easy. Partners should use either Business Desktop Deployment tool, “lite” BDD no-charge tool or other tools;

          10. Hardware doesn’t run Windows Vista well.

          Some speculate hardware and software manufacturers have invested little in updating their current products because they expect most customers will buy a new and associated products to run Vista.

          Aldrich maintains, however, that many installed PCs are properly equipped to handle Vista and Office 2007 and the idea that customers must buy new PCs is a myth.

          Partners and IT pros are also facing problems with peripherals.

          “There’s not enough drivers out there. Peripherals manufacturers are not all up to speed with Vista, so be careful what you buy,” said Anthony Rodio, chief marketing officer at Supportsoft, a Redwood City, Calif., partner that provides helpdesk support for Windows Vista to enterprises and consumers. “People want to use the functionality in Vista and there are some multimedia, video and sound devices that support Vista, but many peripherals have to catch up.”

          He noted, for example, that Microsoft’s own recently released Zune is not Vista compatible. And he added that one of his technicians recently bought an up-to-date webcam for Windows Vista and it didn’t work.

          The lack of available Vista drivers for existing software applications is a nightmare, partners say. They don’t understand why Microsoft and its ISVs have dragged their feet for so long in developing drivers for existing applications.

          The Windows Vista Application Compatibility Update is a package of updates released on January 30 that fixes application compatibility issues with applications like Adobe Photoshop, AVG AntiSpyware, Google Desktop 4 and Roxio Easy Media Creator 7.,5.

          But that Vista patch introduced problems with another version of Roxio one partner is using. He reported it to Microsoft but it hasn’t been resolved yet.

          “So many things just don’t work and won’t ever work and that’s the problem,” said Brian Bergin, president of Terabyte Computer, Boone, N.C. “Smartphones, fingerprint scanners, video drivers and both ATI and nVidia’s cards are questionable at best, not to mention that many business applications don’t work. Microsoft did such a horrible job of working with vendors on legacy XP-Windows 2000 application-hardware compatibility that everything is up in the air.”

          One of the beauties of Vista is the added security, but in order to use it, you must have updated hardware and drivers for applications,” said Aldrich. “And none of the large ISVs have done it.”

          New security features in Vista are compounding the incompatibility issues, Supportsoft’s Rodio said.

          “Windows security is nice, but it may interrupt some existing applications you are running, like a travel service or something that Microsoft flags as spyware and interrupts,” Rodio added. “It will likely disrupt stuff you’ve done in the past.”

          Incompatibilities dominate the list of most common complaints registered against Windows Vista since it shipped on January 30, say several partners who support consumers and SMB and enterprise customers.

          Many ISVs have pledged to release Vista drivers in the second half of 2007 but partners should expect a flood of support calls for customers who deploy this year, experts say.

          Paul DeGroot, an analyst with Directions on Microsoft, a newsletter in Kirkland, Wash., said it’s not surprising to him that hardware manufacturers are not investing in new Vista drivers for older hardware.

          Although some maintain that Vista runs happily on a Pentium 4 with at least 512 megabytes of RAM, he and others expect most customers will migrate to Vista through new PC purchases.

          “I’m guessing that most of the hardware manufacturers will initially ship drivers for Vista only for new products that they’re shipping about now because there wasn’t demand in the marketplace for Vista drivers. In addition, Vista will be heavily related to OEM sales, and the OEMs may be selling compatible accessories with new PCs, so the aftermarket business will see less Vista-specific traffic.
          Well guys i did say there was outstanding problems with vista did’nt i!
          ta mick

        • #2534359

          5 deadly vista sins

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Adobe does not want to embrace vista without

          The 5 sins of Vista
          Since Vista was released to MSDN subscribers back in November I have started using it on my primary development laptop. I would love to run it in a VMWare session while I am developing, but it is still not possible to get Areo Glass to run this way (I need glass running to get our Remote Control Applications to work with it). After a month and a half of using it I have found a number of things that have irritated me, and only make me more angry as time goes by

          It makes me angry because I am a big fan of Microsoft. In my mind, every version of Windows since 3.1 has gotten better with each release (I will kindly forgive them for Windows ME). Each day I feel that in many ways, Vista is a step back in the usability department.

          I want Vista to be great, but there are so many issues I have lost count. I will limit my rant to the top 5 user interface nit picks in Vista. This is my top 5 – yours may be different 😉

          Number 1 – The new file browsing interface is broken

          This problem costs me time every day. I use notepad all the time. It is great for throwing together a script, or a to-do list. Text files work on almost every OS, so I can still read them when I am running Mac OSX. When I go to browse for a file I am shown this dialog.

          Notice that when I clicked on the dropdown it shows me a bunch of websites. A BUNCH OF FRICKEN WEBSITES! No, not the usual tree of folders, and My computer so I can locate a file.

          Sure, I can click on the left to one of my ‘Favorite locations’, but this takes much longer than the tree interface ever did. Oh yea. What happens when we select one of those websites?

          Why show it then?

          One other bone I have to pick with the new browsing interface is the difficulty in going back to the parent of the current directory. The new way makes going back up a few folders a much longer process. Simply stated there is no one button that will always bring you back up to the parent.

          Keep in mind that this file browsing interface is in every new Vista aware application.

          Number 2 – The new start menu sucks (Kind of)

          When I first started using the new start menu I loved it. I usually have 100s of programs installed, and the new interface makes it much easier to navigate. But there is something also I do with the run command on the start menu.

          If I want a specific folder to launch in explorer I just type it out. Click start, then run and type c: Press enter, and the folder will show up.

          Not anymore. If you forget the trailing backslash it will launch a program that is the closest match to that word. So for me, when I type c: It launches Remote Desktop! Argg! I must still make this mistake about 10 times a day. It would be so easy for them to check and see if the folder exists before launching an application

          Number 3 – Windows Networking is a mess

          I need to go into networking options often when going from place to place with my laptop. Since some places need a static IP, others need dynamic, etc. When I go into windows networking I am greeted with this.

          Look at all of the options I am given here. If you have never used Vista before – Quick tell me how to change the IP address on my wireless card! I think they could have split many of these options into totally different areas and made it much cleaner, and easy to use.

          Number 4 – Windows Search Is Broken

          Same as it ever was. Ever since they started messing with Windows Search in Windows XP Service Pack 2 I have hated it. It has fooled me so many times into thinking a file was gone, or nothing existed that matched by search criteria.

          Now when I want a simple search for any file that contains the string ‘IntelliAdmin’ I can’t do it. Instead of fixing what they broke in XP SP2, they just took it out! I want a simple search program that will search for a file on my hard drive (Hint to Microsoft – Every file, not just the types you know about like Word and Excel files) that contains a specific string of letters. It can’t be done any more with windows search. I find myself going to a command line these days and doing a wildcard directory search to get better results. How sad.

          Number 5 – Windows copying has not improved

          Ever since the Chicago Beta was released to the world (You know it as Windows 95) I have hoped that the next version of windows would improve the file copying system.

          Sure they have made the interface look cooler, a snazzy progress bar here and there. What about a robust copy? I absolutely hate it when my 5000 file copy gets killed half way through because 1 single file can’t be opened. Or better yet, how about when I start a copy to a remote file share that is not responding – and all of explorer locks up. Yes it still does this in Vista. I have had to kill explorer on a few occasions over the last month and a half. In this regard Microsoft thinks it is perfectly fine for the UI to become unresponsive when the network is down.

          ta mick

        • #2534354

          vista issues slow vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Adobe does not want to embrace vista without

          Only one version of Java should be installed on a computer. Multiple versions will cause some parts of Vista to malfunction.

          Platforms affected
          Windows (9x,ME,NT,2000,XP)

          Fix
          All versions of Java should be uninstalled. Then, download and install the latest Java version available from: http://www.utas.edu.au/coursesonline/software.htm. ta mick

        • #3164365

          Amen

          by rm3mpc ·

          In reply to Monopolies

          …and amen! I totally agree with ronaldchilcoat.

        • #2501716

          upgrade obstacles

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Amen

          heres a reply from avista user on it news Asus A8JP

          NOW no longer a Vista virgin, I thoroughly expected the installation on the Asus machine, also with Intel Core 2 Duo processors, to be a walk in the park.

          Wrong!

          Although there is nothing on the Asus website or on the machine saying this particular unit is Vista-ready, it is easy to presume it might be.

          However, when we tried to load our trusty Vista RC2, it was rejected very smartly.

          The reason?

          Recent though it is, the machine natively runs the Fat32 file format and Vista requires NTFS, so this led to a lengthy partition format.

          Then, a further long interval ensued (at least half an hour) with a box reading: “Please wait while Windows checks your computer’s performance. Your machine will reboot on completion.”

          So we waited, and we waited, and finally the machine booted into the new world of Vista.

          The screen, however, looked pretty bland and the icons were huge.

          In spite of the promise in a sticker on the machine’s wrist rest of “Video Intelligence Technology”, not only could we not activate the higher Vista functions, but we couldn’t budge the screen resolution from VGA.

          A check of the snazzy new Control Panel again revealed just standard VGA graphics.

          Also, because we had to reformat, the option of upgrading was not available, and this resulted in a clean install on the partition, with only the bare bones of the operating system.

          Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this machine, as it is set up for Windows XP.

          Just don’t expect it to run Windows Vista without a fair amount of pain and heartache.

        • #2501714

          uprade woes

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Amen

          this is from australian it news
          Asus A8JP

          NOW no longer a Vista virgin, I thoroughly expected the installation on the Asus machine, also with Intel Core 2 Duo processors, to be a walk in the park.

          Wrong!

          Although there is nothing on the Asus website or on the machine saying this particular unit is Vista-ready, it is easy to presume it might be.

          However, when we tried to load our trusty Vista RC2, it was rejected very smartly.

          The reason?

          Recent though it is, the machine natively runs the Fat32 file format and Vista requires NTFS, so this led to a lengthy partition format.

          Then, a further long interval ensued (at least half an hour) with a box reading: “Please wait while Windows checks your computer’s performance. Your machine will reboot on completion.”

          So we waited, and we waited, and finally the machine booted into the new world of Vista.

          The screen, however, looked pretty bland and the icons were huge.

          In spite of the promise in a sticker on the machine’s wrist rest of “Video Intelligence Technology”, not only could we not activate the higher Vista functions, but we couldn’t budge the screen resolution from VGA.

          A check of the snazzy new Control Panel again revealed just standard VGA graphics.

          Also, because we had to reformat, the option of upgrading was not available, and this resulted in a clean install on the partition, with only the bare bones of the operating system.

          Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this machine, as it is set up for Windows XP.

          Just don’t expect it to run Windows Vista without a fair amount of pain and heartache.
          ta mick

        • #2497401

          total mayhem is what’s happening with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to uprade woes

          Ms ain’t doing much in the face of lack of sales.A lot of people are totally dissapointed with vista.
          ta mick

        • #3113737

          you arespot on!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Monopolies

          monopoly is right!
          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3218985

          ronald i have to agree fully with you

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Monopolies

          I’m of the same opinion stability,compatibility,reliability these are still some of the unresolved issues.
          Why do we bother using ms products because they have a virtual monopoly & the choice is
          not that much.Allready virus makesrs have set their sights on vista & have proved how hackable vista is than previous versions.
          THey have produced viruses for 64 bit versions.
          ta mick

        • #2490194

          have you had a go & played with vista??

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ronald i have to agree fully with you

          what i have said still holds.
          ta mick

        • #2490193

          it’s still a flop a lot of people at zd net thinkso!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to have you had a go & played with vista??

          heaps of people are switched after they have tried vista & think it’s aflop.
          ta mick

        • #2490192

          typical user comments vista is one giant flop

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to it’s still a flop a lot of people at zd net thinkso!

          Vista is a flop like Millenium
          Hi,

          I have been working in the industry for a long
          time and this OS is not up to my expectations.
          I believe it is a big flop just as the Millenium OS. It is bulky and not user friendly. Menus are to say the least awkward and when I tried to default to classic windows settings it took me some time to get there. All in all I rather stay with WinXp and keep upgrading ’till
          the release of something better.

          Sincerely,

          David

          well need we say more
          ta mick

      • #3165071

        Mostly right …

        by dlmeyer9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        George got it right except for this answer:

        “it has also security holes more than you can poke a stick at.”

        No, it’s much more secure than any other desktop operating
        system with the new security model.
        _______

        Sorry, George. OS X still rules in this area. You can trot out your
        list of “vulnerabilities” and you can claim “obscurity” all you want
        – the “more secure” Vista being tested by <1% of the market
        over the past year have been hit by more malware than the
        "more vulnerable" OS X users (>2% of market) have seen in the
        past several years … not that that’s such a difficult standard to
        exceed.

        Still, in the WINDOWS world, it is “more secure”. This is a Good
        Thing.

      • #3113746

        yes vista is crap

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
        release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
        my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
        & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
        are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3217033

          most people at the ms launch

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to yes vista is crap

          are not ready to ditch their systems until
          they are convinced they are getting any tangible returns.so it wil take a while some said up to 2 years on the uptake.
          ta mick

        • #3289311

          michael you should grow up as you only accept the ms stooges view

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to yes vista is crap

          that is to swallow every word from ms hook line & sinker what ms dishes out to you .
          I have the patience & i have shown you what methodology i have used in my research.Just because you can’t click on a couple of links doesn’t make me a liar.I tell you right now ms is having problems.Even it’s own software is not vista compatible:
          Zune software doesn’t support Vista

          ——————————————————————————–
          posted 8:30am EST Fri Nov 17 2006 – submitted by Brian Osborne
          BLURB

          It seems Microsoft might have missed something before it released its new Zune music player earlier this week. According to the company’s Zune website, the Zune software, which comes with the device, is not compatible with Windows Vista.
          That has to be more than just a little embarrassing for Microsoft, which can’t release a product day one that supports its Windows Vista operating system
          well need i say more
          ta mick

        • #3289167

          Vista not even released yet but

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to michael you should grow up as you only accept the ms stooges view

          I bet that by January 30th-which by the way IS the release date of Vista-Zune will work with Vista.
          “you only accept the ms stooges view that is to swallow every word from ms hook line & sinker what ms dishes out to you ”
          NO I don’t- I believe what I see and Vista is working(RTM) very well for me with no problems and as always if you have no answer all you can do is attack. By the way I said why don’t you grow up because I have challaged you several times and it seems because you have no real answer you choose to ignore me instead.
          Mike

      • #3168198

        i’ve tested all of them

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        You people are attacking me instead of going out for yourselves & seeing first hand of what is really happening.Coupled with this you treat it as i have spoken too soon & i know i havent as i have contacts within microsoft.I know what a beta release is.I can also tellyou what vista is really tryng to bring is mostly cosmetic that won’t show much benefit.I don’t know how you can dissagree with me when you can see a lot of people have allready agreed on some of the problems.Also we are heading into a new grey area
        64 bit architecture all i’m saying is that it is happening toofast without due regard for proper hardware or software to handle it.Not only this
        people have said that the future will be with 128
        bit.256 bit,512 bit up to 712 bit operating systems.I would like to see what operating system they have planned???.All i’m saying is i have examined the details & vista does not answer the needs of the 64 bit architecture as i have tested it thouroughly.
        expect performance in the 32 bit area.

        you can agree to disagree you are entitled to your opinion.My recommendation is i know i’m right!

        • #3217925

          Vista 32 or 64 bit

          by jaytmoon ·

          In reply to i’ve tested all of them

          I agree that the 32 bit is fairly stable. I have tried several times to load the RC1 64 and it failed every time. I like the 32 bit version, with its interface. It is fairly stable (as musch as XP was at first). I do hope the final 64 bit can make it out of the box.

        • #3217900

          64 but stable too

          by moira ·

          In reply to Vista 32 or 64 bit

          I tried the 32 bit Ultimate version and currently have RC1 of the 64 bit version installed. Clearly the Biostar drivers I’m having such a hard time with are never going to work from the CD on the 64 bit version, but they didn’t with the 32 bit either, so it’s no worse from that point of view. I find the 64 bit version perfectly stable.

        • #3217864

          i agree to some extent with the 32 bit

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Vista 32 or 64 bit

          with the advent of 64 bit i don’t think there’s too much drivers available or the equipment.Whatever testing i’ve done is limited to 32 bit.But in the years to come there’s no reason why 64 bit can’t be a reality.It’ll probably take off in few years.
          ta mick

        • #2485006

          right there

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i’ve tested all of them

          Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results

          Vista & to XP Professional Compared

          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.

          yep
          mick

      • #3210912

        re vista beta testing

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        I’ve seen first hand & it is so bad that the amount of people that have said they have problems installing beta vista 1 & beta vista 2 this is on the MSN website.Also people that have bought new equipment hoping to install vista have come to grief as the equipment will not work with vista,coupled with this either existing software & more importantly new software will not work at all with the beta Vista 2.I know it’s beta time but it seems to be hit or miss with both the hardware & software as no one knows for sure.From my testing of beta 2
        i found complete instability of the system.Where as others have found some stability
        but experienced weird symptoms.

      • #3211120

        vista problems

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        Lately, I’ve been having some issues with my Windows Vista. Some driver isn’t doing so hot and is forcing my system to suddenly restart. Its beginning to happen more often now that I use the system more heavily.

        I managed to get the Windows Media Encoder 9 Series loaded on Vista to take screencapture videos. Unfortunately the Encoder doesn’t do so well on Vista. I can usually take one good screencapture video then have to restart the program because it crashes. Correction: Vista restarts it for me.
        One other goofy thing about Windows Vista so far: my CD/DVD-RW doesn’t work like it is suppose to. I cannot read any CD’s or DVD’s. It spins and then stops and freezes the explorer.exe. Then it gives me some ATAPI errors in my Event Viewer.

      • #3211118

        vista is a copy cat system of mac os

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        typical M$ they release something and only catch up. While most mac users have been using vista capabilitis for 3 years. Windows users suffer from the “beatin windows sindrome”. Like ei7 . The add for that should be “Look suckers we finally got it”. Vista wont even be fully functional till 2008, I develop on it,lol. Keep buying M$

      • #3211117

        vista tested on security

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        The User Protection crap, after 10 minutes I had been warned 43 times about something that might be dangerous. Very handy, but will scare the crap outta someone who doesn’t know what it means. And after those 10 minutes I was ready to kill whoever came up with the idea to lock us out of the OS when the dialog box was up.

        • #3205031

          security is still a major issue

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista tested on security

          current controversy of symantec & mS confirms what a big fat liar MS is saying this & that when it is lying & stalling for time!
          ta mick

        • #3204892

          I’m sorry but what controversy

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to security is still a major issue

          I have looked all over symantic site on what you keep saying- how about you giving us the url or is just like usual something you keep saying with no proof.
          Mike

      • #3211116

        vista tested on media

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        Media Center is a farce, I know for a beta product it wont be perfect, but the speed difference between MCE 2005 and MCE Vista is horrific, after reading that Microsoft were working hard at speeding up MCE and making it easier to use I am disappointed. Apart from the speed it is an absolute pig to navigate, really 20 steps backward.

        • #3205027

          While speed has been improved

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista tested on media

          It could be better & there are problems still.
          TA mick

        • #3204889

          Better How-by the way you do know it is RC1 not RTM don’t you

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to While speed has been improved

          and what problems-only thing I see is mior problems/
          Mike

        • #3204762
          Avatar photo

          Actually I think that the 32 Bit Version of Vista

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Better How-by the way you do know it is RC1 not RTM don’t you

          May go close to hitting the Business market come late November but the 64 Bit version is a different story.

          Currently I’m wondering how MS is going to address the Dual Core HTT CPU’s as the RC1 Vista doesn’t seem to totally support these CPU’s at the moment and they are becoming far more common and will soon be the Norm rather than the exception.

          Currently Debian is having some issues with them in their 32 Bit System as well.

          Col

      • #3211115

        vista tested on functionalities

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        The glass theme is truly awful, it’s a half assed attempt at taking XP’s candy interface, Apple’s OS X, and trying to add a bit of pizzaz and cool to it by making it see through, it doesn’t work, it make window chrome very messy and for your average user they will get really confused. I sat my dad down and got him to try out Vista, see what he thought of it and his comment was much the same as mine, spend the money on a Vista license on a Mac, the few things which keep him tied to Windows at the moment are not worth keeping when Vista becomes the norm, and he is looking at upgrading his computer in the next 2 years anyway and if he doesn’t want Vista it’s a Mac or nothing (do not bring Linux into this, it is not really suitable for a non-geek’s desktop)

        • #3277054

          Let me see if I am following this…

          by rebelflag ·

          In reply to vista tested on functionalities

          You say that Vista is krap. You speak highly of OS X. Then you say that Vista is a knockoff of OS X. Wouldn’t that make either OS X krap, or Vista good (depending on which way you are leaning at the time?)

        • #3166709

          you are logically right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Let me see if I am following this…

          you make sense in what you say.I,m not anti windows
          but why introduce something that is with someone else &claim it’s new.Why can’t we get something new
          for a change,why duplicate.Given the huge resources of ms why can’t they create something new.I could get stuck into mac os as a system but i don’t evaluate such systems & they have their place.What i’m saying is we can get lost in the actual trickery
          of functionality call it gimmicks what you like & yes you could apply it to other systems as well.
          good point ps I’m not saying that’s good to call vista crap & not the other.I also think that crap is in a subjective way.I say it more to stimulate response. ta mick

        • #3205018

          the glass theme is truly awful, i

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista tested on functionalities

          I hate it big time ,it is a hideous thing & they should get rid of it.It creates confusion.Ms should change it with something else,something that’s more pleasing & is more functionable.
          ta mick

        • #3204885

          Auful not to the ordinary people I have shown it too

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to the glass theme is truly awful, i

          I have shown Glass to several people and they all like the functionality and the way it displays things. By the way I like it also.
          Mike

      • #3211114

        vista tested on speed

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        Speed at loading applications can be atrocious, CS Source takes a little over 7 minutes to go from clicking the Source icon on the desktop to being at the main menu. On my dad’s Celeron (2.4Ghz, 256Mb RAM) it takes about 5, it isn’t just games which take a long time to load, Photoshop, InDesign, any major application takes around 2 to 3 minutes longer to load than it does under XP.

        • #3205015

          load up time takes longer

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista tested on speed

          Boot time can be as much as a minute i think they
          will try & improve it at the expense of something else.They dare not slow it down any further as it will put people off completely.Speed is still of the essence!
          ta mick

        • #3204879

          Well guess what – no it don’t take longer

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to load up time takes longer

          in fact on a machine with XP on it(by the way a faster cpu and more ram) againest a pc with a slower cpu/less memory and Vista on it. Vista booted up faster than the XP machine. So I guess your wrong again.
          Mike

      • #3211113

        vista tested on navigation

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        t’s awkward to get around, I know this doesn’t really say much but the operating system itself is difficult to use, in places it is overly simple and in others it is needlessly complex. Like the Control Panel, it may be sectioned off, trying to find something is still an absolute pig.

      • #3211112

        vista tested on gaming

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        In game performance is slightly improved over XP however that could be down to a fresh install more than anything else.

      • #3211111

        vista tested on gaming

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        I think Microsoft will find, as it has for a while, that people will upgrade because it’s what one does when new software comes out. The people won’t really care whether it’s all that much better, faster, or safer. It’s what one does. Then there are those like me who need it and only it for one thing or another. Most notably are all the gamers. Gamers need it because that’s the platform games are written for primarily, developers need it because that’s the platform for which most people buy software. Most people don’t care whether the update is all that much better. They care about whether or not they will still be able to do what they always have. People don’t like change. And that’s what I think will save Microsoft – for one more crap release,

      • #3166535

        VISTA is to be ditched!!

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        I’m sorry to tell you that i have some bad news for you i was right for a change.I have just received some news from an insider at MS that the VISTA project is to be ditched or postponed indifinetly.The project had been a disaster from the start behest with many insurmountable technical
        problems.There you have it a lot of people including
        you will have to eat humble pie or humble crow.I was right all along!!
        ta Mick

        • #3229981

          If your basing this on some rediculous blogg some Aussie posted…

          by steve.marshall ·

          In reply to VISTA is to be ditched!!

          … Please check your sources…

          http://forums.wincustomize.com/index.aspx?forumid=202&aid=109570&c=1

          Yes, ok, I know I said I would never post on this thread again, but I’m afarid I could not allow the train wreck that is gsaravin to wallow in self proclimation without retort…

          Any chance we can see gsaravin being scrapped in the near future ? if anything was full of bugs, bad coding and poor performance its him, makes MS products look absolutely perfect on first release !

        • #3229793
          Avatar photo

          Just one question here

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to If your basing this on some rediculous blogg some Aussie posted…

          [i]Microsoft’s own blogger Richard Scoble checked into the story and got a denial from an executive at Microsoft’s PR firm,[/i]

          Why ask a PR Firm? They would know as much about the technical side of things as asking a Politician about the price of bread for the working class. Surely if there wasn’t some truth to this story MS would be denouncing it at every opportunity and not relying on an outside company who knows nothing about the technology involved to answer questions.

          As they say in the BBC Series [b]Absolute Power[/b] [b]Never Shake the Hand of a Gynaecologist or ask a PR Person for the Truth![/b]

          Col

        • #3229772

          of course there a denials

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Just one question here

          col of course they would deny to minmise any colatoral damage.You have every man & his dog coming
          out of the woodwork in denial.I have 29 years of experience in IT.Some people think that i make brash
          statements.But in reality i do my homework,i research things through.I would base my comments
          on that but i can tell you the rumblings are correct.
          I tested all the betas & they are totally crap.
          I base my research on checking some of the
          source code & that’s why MS is abandoning ship
          it’s a juggernaut & it’s going to sink.
          You would think that MS is paying people to say nice things the way it’s reported.

          I know i’m right as i’m not trying to give a positive spin.
          ta mick

        • #3229751

          Re:

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Just one question here

          “Surely if there wasn’t some truth to this story MS would be denouncing it at every opportunity and not relying on an outside company who knows nothing about the technology involved to answer questions.”

          However, some would also argue that defending oneself against purely speculative or flat out false information only lends a sense of credibility to that information.

          For example, few would try to argue against the conspiracy theorists that Elvis is still alive or that Hitler is alive and well somewhere in South America.

          It just doesn’t make sense to defend oneself against completely false acquisitions.

        • #3201955
          Avatar photo

          Well why

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Re:

          Quote MS Blogger?

        • #3201693

          To make it look like they are “listening” to the community

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Well why

          Vista is the same ol’ same ol’ and things like XGL blow DirectX 10 out of the water.

          We’re going to see a HUGE shift in the efforts vendors make to accomodate MS and their inability to follow standards.

        • #3229780

          no i’m not

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to If your basing this on some rediculous blogg some Aussie posted…

          Definitely not, this is the first time i’ve seen the above i have had first hand experince with the crap betas.Also i have had a chance to check some of the
          source code that is currently been loaded.Coupled with the fact that i have a few Ms contacts & what they told me that they feel that vista is history & i smell a rat.MS have basically said that stuff you were
          not ready.I don’t think that vista will be released by jan 07.Also given that the proverbial rug has been pulled from under our feet.You only have to see that there is hardly anything on the MS site now.There’s no beta testing,theres no specs.
          steve if you bother to check that i have been right all along that vista is crap & a majority of
          postings on this thread agree with me, all you have
          is a personal attack on me.Just remmber it’s people like you that readily accept without question all the rantings & ravings of technical writers, writing positive spins on vista were in fact wrong as vista misses the mark totally.
          Steve you know i’m right,you remind me of a fly who is never there,who shits around & flys away.Thats because you have not done any research along the way.You find one posting & say that is what i base everything which is bullshit.
          Unless you have something constructive
          to say please stay away.(buzzaway)

          ta mick
          A good many people at tech republic agree with me,& youll see that i’m right when vista is totally scrapped.

        • #3229759

          you would have to look at these forums (win customise)

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to If your basing this on some rediculous blogg some Aussie posted…

          as hearsay.You know nothing about checking things for yourself you have to rely on win customise sites
          to tell you about vista & some sort of hearsay to convince you that vista is crap.
          i have done hundreds of hours of testing,I have got countless contacts from all over the place.you have none except some shit website!I have more credibilty
          than you as i base my views on good hard experience & genuine feel for the product,Wherea’s you go to shit websites like win customise to help
          you decide.You are fence sitter steve & you are just jealous because you aren’t really intelligent.Just think apart from criticising me you have not made any comment on vista that one would consider intelligent regardless if it was wrong or right.Your threats to start a campaign will nothing short of backfire on you because
          if you try it you will find yourself on your arse!

          That’s the sort of dopy things you have to resort
          like the child that you are because you don’t have anything intelligent to say.Pretty soon i’m
          going to get my Phd & i have to deal with idiots like you. please go away!
          mick

      • #3228149

        i was right wasn’t i?

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        yep i was right looking back.
        ta mick

      • #3288286

        Something Evil this way comes!

        by !thebear ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        I put the 32bit version of Vista RC1 on a IBM8185-F5U. Bumped the ram to 2048. I loaded ok. It appears to be very ‘foofy’. When I tried to install virus protection. Nothing would work with vista except…. Windows ONE care!!!.

        Hmmmmmmmm

        Will keep you posted…

        • #3216766

          definitely evil

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Something Evil this way comes!

          I wouldn’t even waste my time with it folks
          with good sense can figure it out it’s just a money grab.I’m not saying because i hate ms or not i have tested the lo & it has many shortcomings.
          ta mick

        • #3216765

          definitely evil

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Something Evil this way comes!

          I wouldn’t even waste my time with it folks
          with good sense can figure it out it’s just a money grab.I’m not saying because i hate ms or not i have tested the lot & it has many shortcomings.
          ta mick

      • #2501433

        ENGLISH

        by njneiljones100 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        Sorry mate but i havn’t got a jar of glue (clue)what you’re talking about,i think the main thing to say is at least they are trying to improve and with what iv’e seen the graphics are shit hot. I got office 2007 and that is a total upgrade to the normal man on the street,the control and functionability is brilliant and i love it.I don’t understand all the numbers ,as long as i works in front of my eyes then its ok for me . Bottom line is it’s a product for mr average to buy and without his input+sales there wouldn’t be any product. I think everybody should remember this small fact.

        N Jones,

      • #2501432

        ENGLISH

        by njneiljones100 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        Sorry mate but i havn’t got a jar of glue (clue)what you’re talking about,i think the main thing to say is at least they are trying to improve and with what iv’e seen the graphics are shit hot. I got office 2007 and that is a total upgrade to the normal man on the street,the control and functionability is brilliant and i love it.I don’t understand all the numbers ,as long as i works in front of my eyes then its ok for me . Bottom line is it’s a product for mr average to buy and without his input+sales there wouldn’t be any product. I think everybody should remember this small fact.

        N Jones,

        • #2501418
          Avatar photo

          Just a couple of points with Office 2007 & Vista

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to ENGLISH

          While it may look $##T Hot there are a few problems built into Office 2007 firstly the Accounting Package isn’t Vista Compliant because SQL 2005 isn’t so it doesn’t work on Vista.

          As you are using Office so much and like it as well perhaps you could help out a Peer here with answers to her questions on InfoParth & SharePoint that she’s having problems with.

          http://tinyurl.com/yaoukf

          Col

        • #2486208

          Hal is right again! I seen the problems that office 2007

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Just a couple of points with Office 2007 & Vista

          is having & ms supposed to be getting a fix on it but as to when???nobody knows.The whole issue ist to do with non compliance of software with vista.
          ta mick

        • #2486206

          Hal is right again! I’ve seen the problems that office 2007

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Just a couple of points with Office 2007 & Vista

          is having & ms supposed to be getting a fix on it but as to when???nobody knows.The whole issue ist to do with non compliance of software with vista.
          ta mick

        • #2486207

          Hal is right again! I’ve seen the problems that office 2007

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Just a couple of points with Office 2007 & Vista

          is having & ms supposed to be getting a fix on it but as to when???nobody knows.The whole issue ist to do with non compliance of software with vista.
          ta mick

      • #2486231

        ‘No’ is a reply, but…

        by riphly ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        Just saying ‘No, it isn’t.’ or ‘Not really’ or ‘No it doesn’t’
        does, in fact qualify as a reply. But it is a useless one as
        any two children having the “Yes it does / No it doesn’t”
        argument can tell you. WHile I’ll agree the original
        statements supporting ‘Vista is crap’ are not exactly data-
        filled, a meaningful reply would have to include some
        data. For example, simply saying the required megabites
        for loading is 512 does not rebut the ‘resource hungy
        system statement’. A statement of how much RAM is
        needed for smooth performance is required (but not
        supplied) for your proper rebuttal.
        Your reply is more on the order of a PR statement full of
        sales words like ‘it’s much more secure’ (no data
        supplied), ‘exploit hardwrae like never before’
        (salesmanship, but no data) and “(the kernel is not fully
        capable of working in the 64 bit chip
        architecture)(because) (it’s a)…beta…but…”comfortable”.
        If you work for Microsoft, you couldn’t have said it any
        more salesman-like.

      • #2484718

        well george you must be the one speculating because your response

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        is similar to the spindoctoring of vista!
        test results & experience prove i’m right:
        Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results
        Vista & to XP Professional Compared
        cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
        cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
        cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
        cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
        cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
        cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
        cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
        cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
        graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
        graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
        graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
        graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
        graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
        graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
        graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
        graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
        memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
        memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
        memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
        memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
        memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
        disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
        disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
        disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
        Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
        cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
        2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
        memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
        disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
        cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
        3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.

        who is the one speculatin now??
        ta mick

      • #2532758

        my responses are still valid we have been given a

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        lame duck.Xp is much faster than vista.Compatibility is still a problem with stability & forget 64 bit pie in the sky.
        Vista was mean’t to be the “killer” op system.This has not eventuated,sales are not picking up as more & more people don’t want to upgrade.Ms should have released a new service pack for xp rather than a new system called vista.Vista is set to go the way of millenium os.
        ta mick

      • #2527705

        Does your copy of Vista keep flipping out

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        Does your copy of Vista keep flipping out of Aero Glass into Aero Basic?
        7th February 2007 James Bannan Vista, Windows

        Are you being plagued with alerts from Vista stating “The colour scheme has been changed to Windows Vista Basic”? Here’s why

        • #2527700

          nividia disgrace

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Does your copy of Vista keep flipping out

          Logitech, Creative, NVIDIA driver disgrace
          1st February 2007 James Bannan PC Hardware, Vista, Windows
          Thinking of upgrading to Vista? Be prepared for the rude shock that a triumverate of the most common hardware manufacturers still don’t have final-release Vista drivers available.

        • #2527695

          i have to agree on that

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to nividia disgrace

          definitely

        • #2527692

          launch a flop

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i have to agree on that

          What went wrong at the launch of Vista
          30th January 2007 Angus Kidman Vista, Windows
          The projector didn’t work, Rogue Traders appeared by accident, and apparently all the best bits of Vista are actually Windows Ultimate Extras. Oh, and Microsoft is partnering with Sanity for the world’s most overpriced subscription music service

        • #2527687

          k

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to launch a flop

          l

        • #2527673

          jgjj

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to k

          jljl

        • #2527670

          eqwed

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to k

          rfwsf

        • #2527535

          ?:|

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to k

          Say what? ?:|

      • #2525576

        Sorry Goerge Ou

        by fredonesaid ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        Try telling that to so many people that have tried vista either by upgrading or having gotten stuck with it by buying a new computer, I am no techie, far from it, but I do have commen sense, vista is terrible, 99% of people I talk to are not happy with it.

        And I’ll give you another example, I wanted to buy a new computer from bestbuy and circuitcity and asked if I could with xp on it, both said why are so many people asking that question, oh jee I wonder why. I looked at my local craigslist.com, I was shocked to see how many newer vista computers were up for sale and only a handfull of xp models, and the xp models never lasted long mostly gone the next day, so what does that tell me? actually its a no-brainer, vista sucks period, MS should be ashamed of themselves.

      • #2518584

        Web Browsing and Email are So SLOOOOOOOOOW

        by grichardt1 ·

        In reply to What beta builds have you tested?

        I bought a new Dell E521 with an AMD duocore 64, one gig of RAM loaded with Vista Home Premium. Was I disappointed. Reading my daily email took twice as long because it took so long to download the messages and forever to load all the HTML in any of my subscriptions. Nor was desktop function any faster. I recall clicking on some admin function, thinking that it was inoperable and going onto other chores only to have a window open with the requested task between 5 and 10 minutes later. That is just not acceptable. I am now running Ubuntu Linux and all my emails are downloaded in seconds not the several minutes it took to get the first email with Vista.

    • #3146700

      Vista looks pretty good to me so far

      by mr.wiz ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I’ve loaded and run every beta for Vista that has come out. In fact, I’m loading the beta 2 that was just released right now. I’ve been impressed with Vista so far, and it works pretty well, even with pc’s that don’t have a gig of ram or a 100 gb hard drive. The system I’m loading right now has an 80 gb HDD, 512 MB RAM, P4 2.4 processor and on-board video. I don’t get Aero with this machine, but it runs quite well.

      • #3157008

        I often have a minor dig

        by neil higgins ·

        In reply to Vista looks pretty good to me so far

        at Microsoft,over something or other,but to just call Vista “crap” is silly.Think of all the hard work the guys/gals are doing at Redmond.Think of all the beta testing which goes on.Think of all the data reports,and meetings that go on,to make sure all the bits fit.True,I wont be installing Vista,as I’ve said on another thread,but to just put the OS down without seeing it in action,is incomprehensible.
        A tongue-in-cheek remark is one thing,but to simply “trash the thing” is off-line.

        • #3113717

          I HAVE THOROUGHLY TESTED IT & IT’S krap

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I often have a minor dig

          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3283553

          Listen, rookie

          by mark ·

          In reply to I HAVE THOROUGHLY TESTED IT & IT’S krap

          As per usual, you need to get your facts straight before spouting your tripe. I’ve got you beat by five years in the industry, fella. Unless you’re going to post factual information about your observations, it’s just YOUR OPINION which is worth exactly what we’re paying for it: NOTHING, which, coincidentally, is exactly how much impact you’ll have on Microsoft’s sales.

          Your posts would also tend to indicate that you skipped the English and grammar courses on the way to your alleged degrees.

        • #3283544

          don’t make me laugh!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Listen, rookie

          what does a product resseller know when a product is crap!
          my qualifications are masters in computing & phd in operating systems!
          ta Dr MICK

        • #3283522

          Make sure to mention those degrees again…

          by mark ·

          In reply to don’t make me laugh!

          I see through great effort you managed once again to throw in a mention of these alleged degreed you claim to have. It’s getting a little old. Perhaps if you mention it enough times, it’ll actually come true.

          How did you get these degrees when you obviously failed English, spelling, and grammar?

          What schools granted those degrees? When? These things are verifiable.

          What does a reseller know? Obviously quite a lot more than you. I see many systems in varied production environments. The systems I manage are not academic lab toys, they’re doing real work.

          Your qualifications are dubious at best.

        • #3220343

          A PHD in operating systems??

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to don’t make me laugh!

          does not exist…….

        • #3220303

          P hd

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to A PHD in operating systems??

          research was done on computer systems & their evolvement.
          dr mick

        • #3283495

          source code testing proves vista is crap

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Listen, rookie

          I use software that other developers use called klocwork,which perform a detailed source code & design analysis.i can even look at complex situtions involving millions of lines of code.
          Also i use Seapine’s testtrack pro software ,it allows detailed tracking of any bugs.I also have usedmicrosoft’s sourcesafe .As well as automated
          checking & verification i can select manual checking
          of codeor any software.I also use testtrack pro from seapine which is a cross platform software
          which can quickly analyse any source code control integration.
          I also use a source code analyser from fortify software is called source code analysis 3.5It allows software developers to identify,priortise,
          & resolve any flaws in software applications before the operating system is deployed.There is
          a built in structural analiser for finding flaws or definition of a program.
          TA Dr MIck

      • #3165055

        Same here…..

        by jim lovejoy [ibm] ·

        In reply to Vista looks pretty good to me so far

        Same here Mr.Wiz. I have loaded Vista on aprox. 15 different platforms, of all ranges, and configurations. I have seen no real major issues. For a beta, I have been impressed. Although my real interest is in the Server product, this does look like a good replacement for XP as long as the hardware that it is installed on is not outdated. If your trying to run it on PIII, stick with 2000, or XP.

        Once it?s released I will use it on a dedicated machine, and confirm that all the numerous apps that I use are compatible. As always, if I find any issues, I just open a case with Microsoft, and they are always happy to jump in and solve any issues that I bring to their attention. After 30 years in this business, I have never had a more professional experience with advanced support then with Microsoft.

        I have used every OS that has been out there since the late 1970?s. Some were innovative for their time, some were crap. One thing is for sure, Vista will not be crap when it?s released. You can bank on it.

        • #3283490

          Trolling?

          by pkr9 ·

          In reply to Same here…..

          Are we on the same planet with both 35 years in the same trade ?

        • #3283415
          Avatar photo

          Well I’ve only been working with computers for 32 Years

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Trolling?

          And back when I started there where no PC’s we used [b]Mainframes[/b] with [b]Dumb Terminals[/b] now they call them [b]Thin Clients[/b] and are using a decent sized [b]Server[/b] that is most likely far more powerful that the mainframe that I started with ever could hope to be. 🙁

          Col

      • #3113727

        you haven’t tested the source code like i have

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Vista looks pretty good to me so far

        it’s truly crap! have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
        release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
        my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
        & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
        are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3208477

          gsaravin…mmh mmh mmh…honey…you need to leeeeaaaarn english

          by marketingtutor. ·

          In reply to you haven’t tested the source code like i have

          Nice copy and paste of earlier posts. Wow, you’ve tested the source code? What program did you use to test the source code? You must be one of those speed reader types to cover 50mil lines of code in such a short period.

          Do you have access to the original Coca-Cola recipe too? I also must give you my private email so you can pass on to me the Colonel’s secret 11 herbs and spices.

          And of course, you’re the only guy that has actually extensivley tested Vista.

          Yeah, continually stating that you have a degree really gives you more credence. I mean, well, I went to college with some dimwits that couldn’t even read…did you by chance play basketball for your college?

          You didn’t perhaps order one of those Ph.D. by mail courses did you? Are you a graduate of ITT Techinical Institute?

          You have given absolutely NOTHING concrete in anything you have said except to stand behind other people’s posts and statements and repeat the “Me test source code…Vista bad…other OS good…” and “Me is a educated dingleberry wif a duh-gree”

          The only conclusion any reasonable reader can come to is that you are a troll that is trying to get your site rank up, cause your posts carry no merit and make you look actually quite retarded.

        • #3229393

          well you shock me by your comments

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gsaravin…mmh mmh mmh…honey…you need to leeeeaaaarn english

          i thought peole know better.My reasearch is much, much thorough by the way what is your email if your a good sort i can email the special secret software i have on hand.
          I have looked at all the source code for vista & all i can say ,the way it is compiled it will not be ready by january 07.Vista fails on many fronts & particularly there’s hardly any software or drivers around.Most of the hardware doesn’t even function properly.Yes i have extensively tested all the vista betas & they are all short of abysmal in performance standards.Also i have a masters in computer science & currently attend uni & i do a Phd.
          If you are a good sort we may even extend this coversation!

        • #3283549

          What exactly is your testing methodolgy?

          by mark ·

          In reply to well you shock me by your comments

          Explain your testing methods and precisely how you do your “research.” Faulty methods produce erroneous results. Back up your claims. And exactly where did you get the source code and how much time did you spend looking at millions of line of it?

          Keep telling us about all your degrees. I suggest that you research the the following quote from Hamlet: “The lady doth protest too much, methinks” Whom do you REALLY need to convince you have these degrees, hmmmmm?

        • #3283487

          re testing methodology

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What exactly is your testing methodolgy?

          Unlike you guys there just downloading the software.You only decide on a go no go basis.Where my tools of trade are developer tools.The only reason why i will not divulge my methods & techniques is it can get very boring to quote technical crap.
          I use a program called klocwork You can have it all
          automated checking source code or any other software goes into detailed source code & design & analysis.It even guides the developer to develop better code.You can even get complicated source code that runs into millions of lines.It allows you to look at code defects etc.Other software i use is the qa wizard from testtrack pro which allows you to detect & manage bugs in any system.
          I use a source code analyzer from fortify software called source code analysis 3.5 with this software you can identify & resolve problems before an application is deployed.You can look at the whole structure of a given program & see how it is going.You can use it visual basic 6.0,visuaL C++6.0 & visual studio.I even use microsoft software sourcesafe in checking things.
          I hope that satisfies you, I don’t do this for everyone you know.
          ta Dr Mick

        • #3227675

          :-)

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to gsaravin…mmh mmh mmh…honey…you need to leeeeaaaarn english

          -danke

        • #2486229

          About that English….

          by riphly ·

          In reply to gsaravin…mmh mmh mmh…honey…you need to leeeeaaaarn english

          If you are sophisticated and wise, you’ll probably agree
          that not every IT expert was born, raised and lives in
          America AND not every IT expert is a native speaker of
          English. Not even the average American native speaker of
          English can put together a paragraph of grammatically
          correct sentences in English, never mind a foreign
          language. So, go ahead and scoff at the meaning while
          backing up your criticisms with data, but lay off the
          English = intelligence equation. It smacks of
          unsophisticated wisecracking.

    • #3156709

      With all due respect, Mr/Ms gsaravin

      by jardinier ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I note that you have been a member of TR since August, 2002, you have absolutely nothing in your profile, and this appears to be the first post you have made.

      So do us all a favour and fill in your profile so that we know who you are, what are your interests, and what experience you have had with IT.

      There has been quite a lot of discussion about Vista at this website recently, so I would recommend that you read some other discussions and get a much wider range of viewpoints.

      • #3113724

        chill out man

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to With all due respect, Mr/Ms gsaravin

        have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
        release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
        my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
        & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
        are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3200203

          Spammer

          by pkr9 ·

          In reply to chill out man

          BYE, just to be able to turn off e-mails from this silly ‘discussion’. Like talking to a 10-year old who learned 5 sentences.

          You give absolutely nothing to this. EOD.

        • #3200158

          what is your contribution

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Spammer

          at least i speak my mind & i have tested the betas you show up nothing to add.You are silly for coming to this discussion .You know jack shit !
          DR Mick Phd

    • #3156649

      …all this from someone with no sense of grammar?

      by hitoweruk ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      If we were to even consider your opinion as valid, you would have to first make your message readable! Perhaps, if you are too lazy to write properly, you are also too lazy to properly review software that is very much in beta!

      • #3113723

        chillout you are a stooge for ms

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to …all this from someone with no sense of grammar?

        have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
        release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
        my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
        & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
        are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3199230

          Truth: Gsaravin is not a human…

          by bengt ·

          In reply to chillout you are a stooge for ms

          Stop complaining about gsaravin@… ‘His’ posts are generated automatically using a buzzword generator, which also looks to be the case for most other OS posts on most discussions everywhere…

          Why does nobody admit that an OS is only a necessary evil, and that only applications matter? Will Vista run everything XP can, including old DOS data bases?

        • #3199223

          the secret is out

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Truth: Gsaravin is not a human…

          your right i’m a robot,take me to your leader
          brrp oops
          mick

      • #3214637

        Bingo !!

        by jfowler ·

        In reply to …all this from someone with no sense of grammar?

        I’ve been waiting patiently for someone to say it. Thank you. The only ‘face’ one can present on this, or any other, discussion board comes from the end of one’s fingers. Personally, I’m not impressed.

    • #3165183

      Poor Post

      by inspiredfunk ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I have to confess that I have made no posts under this ID before, but I have often enjoyed the posts of other users. This is not one that fell into that category – it looks as if you have read a review on a Linux site, taken the 5 top criticisms leveled at Vista by marketing people (many of whom have not yet seen the Beta 2), and jumped on the anti-Microsoft band waggon.

      I can’t blame you for that – but supporting your arguments with facts, rather than loose statements would be more effective.

      You have to remember that, despite any bad feeling towards Microsoft, they have done more to bring standardisation to the computer industry than any other software company. I do not say this as a fan of Micro$oft, after all, their licensing approach is not, perhaps, the most cost effective – but with all the pirating of MS products that goes on, perhaps this is not a surprise.

      Vista Beta 2, which is the current subject of lab tests for me, has proven to be a reasonable beta release. We have not found the “compatibility” issues to which you refer, with the exception of a few slightly more specialised hardware components (which, in truth, are not supported AT ALL by Linux). For general components, we have had no significant problems.

      For backwards compatibility, granted there are a few issues, but testing these issues is a part of the Beta process – and Microsoft has made great efforts to fix many of the issues identified in the last Beta release.

      As for security, our view is that the security of Vista is significantly better, more integrated and more coherent that that provided for XP at this time. Of course there are still a few holes, but again, this is a Beta!

      Our core criticism against Microsoft would be one of expectation management – this product was supposed to hit the streets in production a few years ago. In the interim we continue to patch existing operating systems in a model which is more effective for the enterprise than the home user.

      FYI – before I am accused of “working” for Microsoft, my core home systems are based on SUSE and Mandrivo Linux, my web servers run predominantly on proprietary UNIX platforms (with the exception of Sharepoint on Windows Server 2003).

      • #3113725

        you are a stooge for microsoft!

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Poor Post

        have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
        release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
        my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
        & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
        are ready to ditch their operating systems.

      • #3284322

        check it out

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Poor Post

    • #3165180

      I await with interest

      by ang2006 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      the final judgement on the Vista system. The post by gsaravine was very angry and with many unsubstantuated charges which George promptly put down(Not to mention I am very suspicious of anyone who types like they are 4 years old) I, at least for now, am pretty much satisfied with XP as it it is worlds above the former Windows offerings. If Vista becomes the Cadillac and XP is then the Chevy—I’ll likely take and keep the chevy for awhile as it runs just fine. After all Microsoft sells enough caddies at too high a price anyway, God Bless ’em!!

      • #3113721

        chill out man

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to I await with interest

        have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
        release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
        my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
        & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
        are ready to ditch their operating systems.

    • #3165175

      gsaravin

      by verd1 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      gsaravin
      I really believe you are just an anti-Microsoft person. You are “one of those” people who hate Microsoft no matter what they do just because they are a sucessfull company. Thanks very much for the post as now I know who’s post I will not waste anytime with. Maybe you should just GROW UP and go back to your Linux box or Mac or Free BSD or whatever it is you use, just do not write anymore useless posts like this one. In fact maybe you should just get off Tech Republic all together.

      • #3113720

        you don’t see the big picture!

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to gsaravin

        have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
        release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
        my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
        & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
        are ready to ditch their operating systems.

    • #3165174

      Confusing Reports

      by researcher75 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Trying to follow these Vista tracks one has to have the sense of an olde Virginian I think? one source says “Whoppee” and another say” Yuk!” – it seems to me that there are problems with Longhorn come Vista but one hopes the delayed release is going to straighten them out. Running 3 machines on XP Home for some while now, I have found they seem to develop individual characteristics, dependant upon the build. To crapize Vista at this stage is a little harsh I think as if it is anything like the thought that went into Office 2007 which I am using with very good results, then Vista will be the perfect partner to provide an even better base for programs.

      Roy

      • #3113719

        vista is still krap

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Confusing Reports

        have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
        release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
        my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
        & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
        are ready to ditch their operating systems.

        • #3283518

          Why don’t you repeat this post a few more times?

          by mark ·

          In reply to vista is still krap

          This line in particular throws your “qualifications” into serious question:

          “have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.”

          Well, Duh! Where else would it be? In the CD maybe? Or perhaps it’s in the object code? Oh, wait, that’s derived from the source code! Maybe this “problem” is in the hard drive! Yes, it must be, because that’s where the code is!

          Moron.

        • #3283493

          dear moron you know everything

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Why don’t you repeat this post a few more times?

          yep you seem to know everything there is to know on vista so why do we bother.
          ta Dr Mick

        • #3283435

          Know it all

          by mark ·

          In reply to dear moron you know everything

          No, Mr. Alleged Degrees, I do not claim to know everything. Unlike you, however, I keep an open mind. I’ve seen tons of beta software, and now, some of it is the most stable stuff around.

        • #3283517

          More spelling

          by mark ·

          In reply to vista is still krap

          By the way, “crap” is spelled with a “c” not a “k.”

          Time to take your nappie now.

        • #3283494

          gee you are so right dude

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to More spelling

          yep time to take a nap dude

          &for you to chill out man!
          TA Dr Mick

    • #3165159

      Vista is B E T A, gsaravin !!!

      by gfdgary ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Calm down, gsaravin. The release is still BETA so take a pill. I’m using release 5381 on an AMD 2600+, 1.5 gig ram, and a older nVidia 6200/256mb ram video card. Works fine, programs open extremely fast, and the GUI is very pleasing. Oh, and I have it installed in a 35gb partition on one of my older 80gb, 7200 PATA Western Digital hard drives. The only problem I had was it did not recognize my 250gb SATA drive intitially.

      • #3113718

        VISTA IS A CRAP BETA SYSTEM!

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Vista is B E T A, gsaravin !!!

        have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
        release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
        my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
        & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
        are ready to ditch their operating systems.

    • #3165158

      Wow…. when did time travel become available?

      by dean_nr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I mean, if you’re talking about Vista after it’s gone gold and is available in stores then _maybe_ I could understand the gripe. But if you’re talking about a beta system that’s being used on machines that were designed with windows XP in mind, then there’s gonna be some issues at first.
      I mean when windows 3.1 was that ‘standard’, do you think windows 95 didn’t hog resources? Do you think windows 95 didn’t have issues with PCs built for a DOS environment?
      So unless you actually have access to time travel and managed to snap a copy of Vista from Best Buy 2 years from now, quite poo-poo’ing on an unfinished product. That’s like complaining to a chef that his meals are garbage while he’s still preparing it.

      • #3113716

        I’VE TESTED IT IT’S A COMPLETE FAILURE!

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Wow…. when did time travel become available?

        have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
        release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
        my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
        & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
        are ready to ditch their operating systems.

      • #3207023

        Ah, the good old days…

        by hectorj102 ·

        In reply to Wow…. when did time travel become available?

        Dean_NR asked: “when windows 3.1 was that ‘standard’, do you think windows 95 didn’t hog resources? Do you think windows 95 didn’t have issues with PCs built for a DOS environment?”

        I was there and it wasn’t pretty, especially when installing from the floppy disk set and “Disk 16” (or some other random disk) wouldn’t read.

        Don’t even get me started on the so-called “upgrade” path from 3.1 to 95…

        • #3206942
          Avatar photo

          No that was the easy time

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Ah, the good old days…

          When you where installing the original 98 from floppies on NB’s that was a nasty time and what made it even worse is that the owners lost the Manual so when it came time where you had to perform a reinstall you generally had a non working NB and no Product Key. MS very quickly dropped the support for the 98 Install from Floppies so it was impossible to do a reinstall once that support had ended. MS quite nicely would provide you with a install CD but when you didn’t have a CD ROM in the NB it was a pointless exercises. Then there where only 40 something floppies involved just to get 98 installed all on the 1.7 MEG capacity so it was so much fun to perform a clean install. You never ever tried a Repair Install when you had one of those NB’s.

          Col

        • #3206907

          Missed that one somehow

          by hectorj102 ·

          In reply to No that was the easy time

          Fortunately, I never dealt with a 98 install from floppies. Sounds like that was a good thing, too. I used the CD even if I had to pull the cover and throw a CD drive in temporarily.

        • #3208621
          Avatar photo

          You where lucky

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Missed that one somehow

          With the 356 IBM Think Pads I think they didn’t have built in CD Drives but you could get an optional SCSI external that the 98 Installer couldn’t recognise.

          It certainly wasn’t boring to say the least. 😀

          Col

        • #3284607

          That took all the fun out of it!

          by txtopgun ·

          In reply to Missed that one somehow

          nt

        • #3284498

          why don’t you do yourself a favour

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to That took all the fun out of it!

          & make a comment on vista.Do you like it or do you hate it? Remember you opinion is valued,It doesn’t matter if it is wrong or right.
          Ta mick

        • #3284485

          opinion on Vista

          by arizmendi ·

          In reply to why don’t you do yourself a favour

          I have run Vista Beta 2 with the updates of a couple of weeks ago. Limited testing at that, since I have to re-cable hard drives each test. I did have driver problems (my obsolete Santa Cruz sound card and non-obsolete MSI 6600GT AGP graphics card). My last real Beta testing was with Windows 98, and think I remember that there were thousands of patches between the Beta and RC1 release. I’ll reserve further judgement until I install another hard drive and RC1. Looking at it from a marketing perspective, Vista is prettier and seems to install easier; especially Internet access. I don’t know if MS can think of a reason why everyone should switch to Vista, unless they drop support for enough legacy systems to make people start worrying – that will be their main hope. Windows 3.1 to 95 was a big jump, but XP to Vista will seem pretty tame to the casual end-user and to me (so far). Remember that sales of anything is perceived value, NOT real value and value is whatever (if anything) someone will pay for your product.

        • #3284453

          Haven’t tried it yet

          by txtopgun ·

          In reply to why don’t you do yourself a favour

          I haven’t taken the time to try it yet…so far I have no clients that even have an interest in it and I don’t really care personally. I just came on here to read what others had to say about it and maybe learn something. Unfortunately, most of this particular thread is taken up by your complete lunacy.

        • #3284442

          re reply to arizmendi

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to why don’t you do yourself a favour

          this comment was more to topgun to make comment.As regards to your comments i have to agree with you but like to add that Vista started off with a lot of good things & then canned them along the way.I was speaking to some senior it’s & they said vista will turn out like a bloated XP.
          ta Mick

        • #3284320

          the current dispute on security between MS

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Missed that one somehow

          & symantec proves what a poor system vista is .With serious security breaches & Ms simply denying Symantecs reports.You don’t need to be an einstein or some dude with a phd to work out that vista is a dud system.A lot of people have simply been taken for a ride about vistas bells & whistles,when in reality it’s a huge mess.In what appears to be a last ditch effort by MS as vista will be it’s last of the windows operating system before it hopes to move on to some other platform.
          ta mick

    • #3165154

      Crap is subjective

      by wiske57 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I recently quit using a well known A/V product after paying to upgrade to the 2006 version. The problem? Required more system resources than I could afford. Vista will sell; I can see you haven’t seen it run, (on good hardware.) Think of why I may be saying that. Vista requires a lot from the system and more opinions than mine have been changed in the last few weeks. 98SE did all that I needed to do, I had no reason to upgrade. D’uh, well maybe I better as I have 25 machines to support that will be upgraded. XP will do all I need to do. Why would I upgrade? Sound repetitive?

      • #3165092

        Not repetitive

        by npinchot ·

        In reply to Crap is subjective

        “I had no reason to upgrade. D’uh, well maybe I better as I have 25 machines to support that will be upgraded. XP will do all I need to do. Why would I upgrade? Sound repetitive?”

        If everybody said that everyone would still be using green text monitors that have no graphics mode. That’s a bit of an exaggeration but you know what I’m sayin. I’m not saying Microsoft is great or Vista is great (not saying it’s bad either). I’m just saying technology evolution is a good thing.

      • #3113714

        YES BUT IT STILL IS CRAP

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Crap is subjective

        have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
        release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
        my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
        & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
        are ready to ditch their operating systems.

    • #3165151

      Take a chill pill

      by emar1000 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I use to work with a couple people with this same type of attitude towards MS. They really are good people but the attitiude they had was less than tasteful. Suppose you are right, Vista is a resource hog. Ya so? It should be expected that it will use more resources. Common sense should tell you that. Personally I am looking forward to seeing what it can do. I just wish I had a beta to try.

    • #3165150
      Avatar photo

      As I’ve posted elsewhere the second Beta Release of Vista

      by hal 9000 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Or probably more correctly the first Beta Release of Vista and not the preproduction Longhorn platform should be available sometime around 3 weeks from the 22 May 06.

      MS is attempting to have the [b]Ultimate[/b] version of Vista available come November 06 but at the current time this is still up in the air and could be pushed back depending on what problems that they run into.

      Currently Vista represents [b]1,000,000 Man Years[/b] of work well at least according to the MS Marketing Rep that addressed us at the MS Road Show on the 22 May 06 and currently they are finding 5,000 problems per day in the code so it should still be quite some time till the Retail Version becomes available.

      And Vista will run on a lot less than 512 MEG of RAM and a Dual Core 3 GIG CPU it’s just with the lower Video RAM available some functions will not be available to the user which I personally do not see as such a bad thing as Vista will cut back and only allow the systems to run that the computer has the resources for.

      Currently the Beta Version of Vista should be arriving soon and I’ll be downloading it and having a play with it on a [b]High End Workstation[/b] before I even begin to think about if I like it or not. On Friday Local Time MS sent out a MS Bulletin setting up for those wanting to try Vista and when they make it available I’ll load it to a system along with the Office 12 or 07 product also in Beta and give it a run. Currently I have the Office products downloaded & I’m just waiting for the Vista OS to become available before I load them up and give them a run.

      As far as comparing Vista to XP it is a [b]Resource Hog[/b] which requires far more in the way of hardware but by the same token the same was said about XP before it was released and today a 3 GIG CPU is one of the smaller ones available and with the cost of RAM being [b]As Cheap as Chips[/b] who cares if you need a couple of GIG that RAM will still cost less than the 1 MEG that we used on the old DOS days.

      Being one of the Dinosaurs here I can still remember paying $100.00 per MEG for RAM and a $1.00 a MEG for HDD Space now it’s really much cheaper than that and a computer built to make full use of the newest MS OS when it eventually becomes available will still be much cheaper than a 286 was when new. When the DX60 486’s where new I broke the bank by installing 8 X 16 MEG RAM Sticks [i]that’s right I had 128 MEG of RAM on a 486[/i] on the M’Board with a 500 MEG HDD and a 256 Colour Display adaptor.

      I can still remember having to fight with the sales person for that 500 MEG HDD because it would be [b]Unfillable[/b] in his words and that was before Windows in any form was available.

      Personally before I make any decisions on Vista I’ll [b]Suck It And See[/b] and then make my decision from there. But no matter what with the Latest Generation of Dual Core HTT CPU’s available there is one thing that is certain [b]XP CAN NOT RUN THEM FULLY[/b] so unless you are pushing a wholesale switch to Linux by this post you are way off the mark. 😀

      Col ]:)

      Just one thing I forgot to add Vista will be coming out on a DVD not a CD as there is over 1 GIG of it to load. So MS has finally made good on their word and is finally releasing their Software on a DVD which they have being saying that they have been going to do for several years now. But if you want to work with a really [b]Low End[/b] computer you can get it on CD’s for a while from it’s release though I personally don’t know any system builders who are still using CD instead of DVDs in their systems.

      • #3165047

        Good read HAL

        by jim lovejoy [ibm] ·

        In reply to As I’ve posted elsewhere the second Beta Release of Vista

        I couldn’t agree more.

        p.s. Remember CP/M ?

      • #3164731

        Hardware ready for Vista?

        by alvarocervantes ·

        In reply to As I’ve posted elsewhere the second Beta Release of Vista

        I think an OS should be an interpreter of the hardware, not the other way around. So basically I don’t see why we have to adjust to MS rather than them creating a pure OS which could be very light since no applications have to be there. An applciations disk could be added and we install whatever we need or want. We all know that MS OS it is not just an OS but a marketing devise so we continue filling the landfields with palstics, metals and silicon.
        My advice, recycle and use Linux in your old computers.

        • #3271098
          Avatar photo

          Strange you should say that. :0

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Hardware ready for Vista?

          The NB which has above average Specs has proven a bit of a mixed bag with Vista. It refuses to boot from a DVD though it will boot quite happily from a CD. [i]Chalk up one to MS for their great new OS[/i] I generally run Debian on the NB and it works perfectly even the Web Cam and WiFI built in devices but it seems that it can not boot from it’s Dual Layer DVD Burner when you insert a DVD I’m still waiting for a BIOS Update that will hopefully cure the problem. 😀

          As for the Dual Xeon it’s my new Workstation and can not be called anything but new eventually when I get around to finishing it off I’ll have several different Distro’s installed to boot from and no doubt a copy of Windows not so much because I want it but because I have to service it and I keep forgetting things when I don’t use it enough.

          But I’m no where as nasty as one Nix Developer that I’ve meet who runs Nix on his NB with IE loaded on the desktop so just about everyone thinks that he running Windows with some new advanced settings. :^0

          Now if only I could move all my customers over to a Nix Desktop I would be so much happier and have far less work inflicted on myself. :p

          Col ]:)

      • #3209940

        $1.00 per HDD MB?

        by daveo2000 ·

        In reply to As I’ve posted elsewhere the second Beta Release of Vista

        Oh, Col! Here I was feeling young and impetuous and now you break my bubble!

        The first drive I had to pay for was $600 for 10 MB and that was mail order. The ones in the local ComputerLand (remember them anyone?) were selling for $1000 installed (and they would keep your floppy drive that it replaced).

        That drive was for my 5-slot PC (pre-XT) with a rocking 4.33 MHz processor and 256K on the motherboard!

        • #3209883
          Avatar photo

          Yes I really messed up there didn’t I?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to $1.00 per HDD MB?

          What I actually meant to say was that we couldn’t conceive things getting any cheaper when we got to the the $100 per MEG for RAM and a $1.00 per MEG of HDD Space.

          That was the price that just couldn’t be broken or so we thought way back them. I’ve just bought 4 GIG of DDR RAM for under $300.00.

          Now how many cents is that per MEG? B-)

          Col

        • #3284606

          Don’t really remember what it cost

          by txtopgun ·

          In reply to $1.00 per HDD MB?

          What I do remember was when I had a hard drive go down in a Z100 (Zenith)in the Air Force and had to wait over a year just to get a replacement. That is when I first learned you can actually move the boot sector to another physical location on the drive to get past the bad blocks. Oh those were the days!

        • #3284551
          Avatar photo

          Well if memory serves me correctly

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Don’t really remember what it cost

          Back in the 286 Days we would buy 50 MEG HDD for about $300.00 AU and thought that was so cheap. Mind you at the same time or slightly latter we where paying $25.00 AU Per CDR and that was so cheap at the time on a $700.00 + SCSI Burner. Now I pay about $20.00 AU for a spindle of 50 CDR and don’t use them much any more as I’m using DVD R to do a lot of the storage and they are even cheaper than the CD’s.

          Currently I’m waiting for the price of Dual Layer DVD R’s to drop to a reasonable level currently over here when you can get them they are still asking around the $10.00 AU per Disc Wholesale.

          Actually my first personal PC was a 486 that I had to fight to buy a 500 MEG HDD for as it at the time was supposedly [b]Unfillable.[/b] But I also had a bit of trouble with the RAM as well as I wanted 8 X 16 MEG Sticks and they where well over $100.00 AU per MEG of RAM so each stick cost close to 2K AU and there where 8 of them. Now I couldn’t give away that RAM if I wanted to. 😀

          I’ve a couple of the old 50 MEG HDD’s lying around here as well which are effectively only good for [b]Paper Weights[/b] now and I don’t know if you ever saw them but most are not the IDE Interface they have 2 Ribbon Leads to them the IDE’s came latter and even then they where RAM Drives which where inherently unreliable.

          I can still remember my first company supplied LT which was the size of a medium suitcase which I was supposed to carry with me at all times. It was a joke at the time but I’d love to have it now as it was different with the fold out speakers and the Green Screen CRT people just had to have a play with it when it was new and I was caring it to all the Mainframe work that I was going to. I didn’t carry it around much because it was heavy and limited the amount of stuff that I could carry into a job in a Secure Position so it was mostly left at the office. Particularly as it looked fragile to me and I didn’t want to destroy one of the first available before they even went on sale here. I think that the company thought that if they where reliable enough to allow Mainframe Techs to carry around they where going to be good. I think that I was mostly using [b]Dumb Terminals[/b] till I bought the 486 but I had bought the parts for a 286 for my Mother and assembled the unit for her long before I bought a PC for myself. It was then I learnt all about Incompatible Hardware and coming from the Mainframe side this was a problem for me at least. The company couldn’t understand why I bought the bits myself and made the computers that I wanted rather than but a preassembeled unit that they where supplying. Mine always worked better and I didn’t have any of that nasty MS Software that came bundled on the prebuilt systems that they where selling at the time. Even the company supplied PC’s where upgraded to hell and all the MS stuff removed and replaced with something that worked. :0

          Col

        • #3284452

          Actually….

          by txtopgun ·

          In reply to Well if memory serves me correctly

          I had forgotten about the Burroughs systems I worked with in the very beginning. The B25 systems ran up to 8 workstations (dumb terminals) and they only had a 10MB hard drive. Nobody could figure out what to do with the XE520 system (renamed from B29 so it could be sold in Japan!) so I wound up with one of them sitting behind my desk. It was called a mini-mainframe…it was about the size of an apartment sized fridge. It had a whopping 50MB of storage space not including the 5MB syquest drive to power its 32 terminals (which by the way had to be hardwired to it no matter where they were located). I will have to say though the word processing program it used, Write 1, was one of the best I have ever encountered. I have often wished I still had a copy. These were the predecessors of the PCs.

          My first experience with a laptop didn’t come until around 1990. When I took it with me to Desert Storm it caused quite a stir every time I went through security…they just weren’t used to seeing people actually carrying them around yet. You didn’t dare check them as baggage. At the time it was state of the art, a 286.

      • #3214534

        Hey Hal I can remember when XP was beta

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to As I’ve posted elsewhere the second Beta Release of Vista

        Early on it was a resource hog. During early beta having debuging tools embeded in the code would cause some issues. but as we got nearer to RC these issues slowly went away. Of course it has been in all the beta’s I have been in from Windows 98/Plus 98/98SE/Me/XP/SP2 and now Vista.
        Having beta tested Vista since July of last year I have seen huge improvments and on my current homebuilt
        MSI K8N NEO Platinum
        AMD Sempron X64 3300+
        2 512meg DDR Kingston PC3200
        WD1200JB SE 120 gig
        Maxtor Diamond10 S ATA 80gig
        MicroAdvantage DVD +- RW Dual-L
        Nvidia FX6200 256meg memory
        AverMedia Ultra TV 1500 MCE
        Ultra V-series 500watt PSU
        Ultra Media Reader
        Dual-boot Windows XP Pro SP2/Vista Home Premium
        MS Optical Mouse(USB)
        Hitachi 19″ CRT
        Acer AL1717BBM LCD 17″monitor
        Vista with the current build supports all the hardware on this computer. Even on another homebuilt Vista works with no problems.

        • #3215769
          Avatar photo

          Michael where did you get the Home Premium Copy?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Hey Hal I can remember when XP was beta

          The current Vista Beta is the Ultimate copy which is slated for release at the earliest in November 06 but may be moved back to next year depending on what problems that are encountered.

          The way that MS was talking about this release on 22 May 06 was that it was the equivalent of the RC2 Release and I’ve got the current version as I checked again just in case another one had been made available for download a couple of days ago when I read your posting below.

          Actually what do you think of the idea of MS charging for the Beta Release of Office? Granted it’s only a small amount but even still if I’m downloading & testing and providing feedback I don’t expect to pay for it as well. But maybe that’s just me I’m wondering how others feel about this.

          Actually what I meant above about Vista being a Resource Hog is that it will require more resources than XP currently does not that it’s a bad thing but that it is written to take advantage of the current generation of Hardware that is available which XP [b]Can Not[/b] do particularly when you look at the upper end Dual Core CPU’s with HTT or whatever AMD calls their equivalent system that looks to the OS like a Quad Processor setup. XP will handle a Dual Processor Setup quite nicely but when it comes to Dual Cores with HTT that’s a different story. I’m also wondering how MS will write their EULA for VISTA as now we have Dual Core CPU’s with HTT and with the previous versions like XP they said 2 CPU’s which in my books at least mean 2 separate CPU’s and not 2 CPU’s on one chip.

          It’s just like every previous version of Windows the newer that it is the more hardware resources that it requires to work properly but I’m not saying that if you have a decent unit running XP that Vista will not work on it just that the more resources that you have available the better things will be just like every previous version of Windows. If you want to go back to the Beta of 95 it was considered a Resource Hog in comparison to DOS or Win 3.11 and while that was the current convention what is really correct to say is that the newer MS OS is bigger and makes better use of the newer hardware and while it uses more system resources than the previous versions there are more available to be used so why would you not build an OS to make use of what is available rather than leave resources unused.

          With 98 you had problems when you exceeded 768 MEG or somewhere there abouts and had to perform a Reg Hack to allow the system to use the more RAM that was available, then with XP the same applies when you have more than 4 GIG and no doubt there will be an upper limit of usable RAM before problems start to arise with Vista but it’s gong to be higher than 4 GIG. The Board that is my new Workstation can carry 12 GIG but I don’t see that much being added for a while yet the current 2 GIG per CPU seems enough for the time being even with Vista becoming available soon though it’s nice to know that I’ll be able to bung on more without running into problems. 😀

          Col

        • #3215729

          Actually the iso’s I get has more than one version on the dvd

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Michael where did you get the Home Premium Copy?

          Windows Vista Basic/Ultimate Home-Business/Ultimate all on 1 DVD. A differant
          product key for each version. Oh and I get a differant iso for Vista X64.
          By the way I have said before I have beta tested for MS since December of 1997 and I still am. I have cd’s of all the Windows I beta test last count 75+ that were sent to me by MS.
          Oh and windows 98 had a limit or 256 meg before you had to modify the system, as I remember.. :p

    • #3165144

      The trouble with Vista is the same trouble that existed ……………….

      by sleepin’dawg ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      in the transition to XP from 2000 and in 2000 from 98 SP II and prior to that from 95 and prior to that from 3.11. Microsnot unfortunately produces some of the most bloated code possible and endeavours to introduce all kinds of bells and whistles that few have really asked for in real world circumstances. Unfortunately many of these items are ill conceived and poorly implemented, thus opening portals for all sorts of malware. So many of these things are so seldom used that quite some time can pass before anyone becomes aware of the vulnerabilities.

      Rather than see a more complex OS loaded with assorted features that over 90% will seldom if ever use, why can’t MS produce a faster more secure OS and make the additional features available as plug-ins. They could still sell the new and improved OS and have an additional market for the plug-ins for those who are truly in need of these things.

      We have been evaluating the first beta version of Vista and are presently entering upon an evaluation of beta 2. As with our transition to XP, so far it looks that we will be holding off as long as possible before making the switch. The fact that they were publishing security patches to the first beta even before it was published, speaks volumes. Hell they still haven’t got Office 2003, never mind 2007, running glitch free without vulnerabilities still coming to light, never mind the XP OS. What discourages me is that after reporting a minor glitch to MS, we were apparently provided with a patch, that while fixing the glitch, opened up two or more potential problems.

      I am not actually performing the evaluations myself because I no longer have the recondite skills necessary for the task; my focus being primarily on the hardware front but I still have the ability to comprehend what my people are telling me. So far, as with XP, the advice is to wait until others have sorted out all the glitches that are sure to arise.

      Make no mistake about it; we will transition to Vista eventually. We will have no choice but this doesn’t mean we have to be happy with the switch. One would think that a company with the resources of MS could do a better job of publishing a fast,
      secure 64 bit OS than what they have achieved so far. Our glitch or problem list is now over seven legal sized pages long and growing. God alone knows what it will be like when the 128 bit systems start coming on line in 2010, with the rumour that 256 bit and 512 bit systems may be seen before 2015.

      It is interesting to note that the laptops carried by astronauts aboard the shuttle and the space station have only recently switched to 486s, although that is changing as I write this. The reason for using such old tech, is that it has been thoroughly debugged. There is talk they may be switching from Intel to AMD systems but why this should be so, is unclear to me. It isn’t a hardware problem but a software one, in the area of backwards compatability.

      As a point of interest, who is running IE7 and other than the supposed tabbing feature, is it really any improvement over 6??? It’s like all other MS products; riddled with security holes and a resource hog, never mind the fact that it is unnecessarily bloated beyond belief.

      My personal opinion is that MS has too many coders including their pet projects into the overall system and there isn’t sufficient supervision as to what should be included and what excluded. They get away with this because hardware development is light years ahead of software development and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. I am not kidding about 128 bit systems, Intel has that in the fire already with the rumour that AMD is prepared to leapfrog 128 bit and go straight to 256 with 512 in the background. Imagine dual core chips in this range. The reason for these new chips is OSs based upon voice activation. Say goodby to mice and perhaps keyboards. We will all be like Scotty in Startrek, “Hello computer?” Forget fingerprint readers and retina scanning, voice print recognition will become the standard for machine security.

      [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

      • #3165107

        Chicken or egg?

        by mustangj369 ·

        In reply to The trouble with Vista is the same trouble that existed ……………….

        Is the software growing in complexity and ability to take advantage of the latest hardware capabilities or is the hardware being made more powerful to keep up with the needs of advanced software?
        At the moment, you’re right that hardware is ahead of software, and Microsoft is just trying to make the best use of what hardware is out there. Yes, Vista qualifies as bloatware, I suppose, but look at all that it can do. True, many of these features won’t be used by a lot of people, particularly enterprise users in the case of media functionality, and your idea of providing these as plugins has merit, but MS can’t be pilloried for trying to market a complete computing experience in one package. It’s one of the reasons for their success.

        BTW: I’ve read that most astronauts carry their own laptops on space missions because NASA’s are too old. The reason for that is it takes as long as 7 years for NASA to certify hardware for space. There must be reasons for this lengthy process other than durability testing, such as budgetary restraints. No need to upgrade to the latest and greatest if what you’ve got does the job sufficiently well.

        • #3165095

          You have to remember that most of the hardware they are interfacing……..

          by sleepin’dawg ·

          In reply to Chicken or egg?

          is over twenty years old. Yes they do carry their own computers but they still require the NASA ones, which plug directly into the onboard computers and controls. The personal computers may lack the capability and you must remember that most mil standard hardware has been redundantly debugged to the nth degree. By the time this has been accomplished the technology has moved on. You would be amazed at how old some of the hardware technology is, that NASA uses but it isn’t a matter of bugetary restraints so much as it is because it is something that has been proven beyond a doubt to work without fail, [i]most of the time.[/i]

          [b]Dawg[/b] ]:)

        • #3165411

          ….

          by inspiredfunk ·

          In reply to You have to remember that most of the hardware they are interfacing……..

          “it isn’t a matter of bugetary restraints so much as it is because it is something that has been proven beyond a doubt to work without fail, most of the time.”

          … and the fact that the build contract go to the lowest costing, technically compliant bidder!

        • #3113713

          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major prob

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to You have to remember that most of the hardware they are interfacing……..

          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems.

    • #3165143

      umm i dont think so

      by patl411 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      ur sayin it reuires 1 gig ram? i ran it fine and fast at 768… dual core? i have a athlon 2800+.. thats single core and 2.14ghz.. not 3ghz… and the hdd i used was a 30 gig….maybe u have never tried runnin it… becuase it ran nice for me

      • #3210611

        vista does not recognise some hdd

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to umm i dont think so

        some of the hdd i’ve tried were not recognised by vista.100 gig maxtor sata drive,seagate 80 gig
        harddrive.no matter what fidling i did in bios etc i could not access the drive.Whilst you did install vista & got it running the minimum recommendation is much higher especially when you are running 64 bit.Most of the hardware printers,modems,video cards were not detected.
        When using vista i noticed that video cards were
        getting hotter & chips were getting hotter so better cooling is a must & i noticed that some video cards were strugling to display basic information.I suspect the drivers in windows to be suspect as they will not work with some cards.
        I would recommend certainly running dual core with some applications requiring it.
        Also i noticed that vista gobbles a lot of resources that i would recommend more ram & extra hdd space.

    • #3165080

      This reminds me of AOL ….

      by moira ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      People seem to love bashing AOL in a similar way to Vista (and by implication, Microsoft). Usually they’re people who have barely done more than dabble with either and just think it makes them look kewl and 1337.

      I have beta2 and have had a go with some of the earlier builds. My only real criticism is the need to have a 3D graphics card for desktop apps. Many, many people never need more than onboard graphics for all the programs they use, why should the OS alone demand this? And I’ve seen the difference, Vista really does lose something when you can’t view the fade in fade out menus or the spectacular graphic effects properly.

      Yes it takes a lot of space, but look how big hard drives are now. Is there really going to be a problem with users not having enough gigabytes to install it? Yes the permissions issue is well irritating, but MS have been forced into this position in rather the same way as we’re all forced to have house contents insured.

      I do think if they hadn’t hyped up the release of Vista quite so much with all these versions which will quickly need replacing once the 64 bit OS builds come out, and they hadn’t then got hopelessly behind schedule with code that had to be rewritten etc, they might have made it easier on themselves. At the end of the day though, we can’t really criticise the product until it’s launched.

    • #3164940

      Vista will not sink….

      by fxef ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Vista may carry us on a turbulent ride, but it’s not going to sink. XP has us spoiled with it’s solid foot print. Now this is just my opinion but moving to Vista from XP is going to be like the switch from 3.11 to Win95.

      FXEF

      • #3167558

        we know vista is crap but

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Vista will not sink….

        I don’t think its going to work well in the 64 bit area!

        • #2482982

          Do not advertise your stupidity !!

          by v_2amt ·

          In reply to we know vista is crap but

          People saying that Vista is a crap I feel pity on them. They are not ready to accept the success of Microsoft. They need some medical aid for their mental treatment. They are getting some money from Mac/Linux or any other company and they start barking on Microsoft. Stop doing that and accept the challenges from Microsoft. Vista is going to change the world of OS and no one can stop it. Specially people like these. They just know how to put there crap ideas on internet for cheap publicity. It is already proven that MS is leader in OS industry and this is what they are not able to digest. Here is an idea for these kind of people. Join MS. There you can get trained properly and in positive way so that you dont do these kind of stupid acts again in future !!!

        • #2482930

          they have a right to express a view just like you have

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Do not advertise your stupidity !!

          of course your view is more stupid bcause your a fence sitter & you have done no reaearch or testing.You think you just install vista on your pc & that’s it!
          I test operating systems for a living .your stupidity tells you that those people who say vista is crap also & hate ms .You are totally wrong.yes vista is crap ms is not crap,their op system xp is much better as it offers greater stability & compatibility.
          so think before you say anything because
          you are just talking through your arse.
          I have thoroughly tested vista,benchmarked it to xp,tested the source code etc.
          you have done nothing but st on yoour fat arse.You are stupid simpleton fool who looks at the world through colored glasses.You wait for someone else to make up your mind.
          If this thread was no good people would not reply.This thread is one of the most popular with nearly 1500 responses.
          get off your arse & do something as your bloody stupid & theres no prize for second best.
          ta mick

        • #2482925

          more people think vista is crap

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to they have a right to express a view just like you have

          Vista is crap for gaming, bloke reckons

          Security stuffs up everything

          By Nick Farrell: Wednesday 10 January 2007, 09:20

          MICROSOFT’S excessive security features could kill off its use for the PC gaming market, according to one game distributor.
          Alex St. John who runs an outfit called WildTangent, publishes online games from the likes of Atari, Nickelodeon,PlayFirst, iWin, and Popcap.

          Writing for GamaSutra, St John found many of the security changes planned for Vista alarming and likely to present sweeping challenges for PC gaming.

          Online distributed games would be particularly hit because of Vista’s use of Limited User Accounts. Although LUA?s are used in Windows XP, no one uses them because of the onerous restrictions they place on usability. However Vista has made them compulsory, he said.

          St. John said that it is like having to enter a username and password per song you wanted to try in Apple iTunes.

          He also does not like Vista?s “obstructive security” used in the new Vista Game Explorer which he thinks is a heavy handed implementation of parental controls.

          He said Vista Game Explorer defines games using the ESRB rating service, which designed for multimillion dollar boxed titles and is too expensive for most small casual game developers. Vista?s parental control system also cannot deal with web games which it will not protect users from anyway. ?
          Bfore michael insults me i’ll walk away quietly.
          Ta mick

    • #3165507

      Rowrrrrrr

      by timmers ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Rowrrrrrr!!! Someone needs a valium.

      • #3167554

        you miss the point

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Rowrrrrrr

        s it someone who trusts you to do your job? Someone who can show you the ropes? Someone who will go to bat for you even when it means taking a certain amount of heat? Find out what TR members have to say about this issue.

      • #3167552

        you do cause you sit on the fence

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Rowrrrrrr

        you don’t say anthing & just sit on the fence what have you tested?

    • #3165502

      On Backwards Compatiblity

      by jumpa ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I do not and never have understood the requirements for backwards compatibility within an IT environment (which it seems is the main thrust of Tech Republic). I would love to know why it is a requirement when PCs and servers generally get replaced/updated every 3 and in the very worst case 5 years.

      There are sectors in which backwards compatibility could be required such as industrial control. I’m a H/W designer (yes I know I shouldn’t be here) who designs such boards and it always astounds me that people would want to run low bandwidth/slow devices (eg my pet hate the ISA bus) on processors that are several hundred times faster than when these devices were state of the art. If it didn’t show a complete lack of understanding it would be funny when I get complaints that under XP the ISA bus doesn’t run any faster and sometimes considerably slower than on their old 286 or 386 machine with a cut down version of 95 on it (these people generally love doughnuts and have a son called Bart).

      Microsoft have missed a real trick here. I’ll admit I’m not their greatest fan but they really should have elminated as much backward compatibility as possible with Vista. To run all these devices you don’t need Vista and you could argue probbably shouldn’t even be running 2000 or XP. To have a machine capable of running XP or Vista and using these archaic devices is going beyond a joke. It’s a bit like buying a Ferrari to drive 10 meters so you can get there that little bit faster only to find out it takes longer to get in and out of a Ferrari and therefore the overall journey takes longer.

      There are 2 major upsides to eliminating backwards compatiblity. First there’s less code in the OS so less to go wrong and probably increases efficiency. Second there’s less hardware in your system which a. makes it cheaper, b. makes it more reliable, c. makes it cooler and d. makes it cheaper to run as it uses less power. Oh yes – e. stops driving me insane everytime something I have to design in goes obsolete 🙂

      • #3165452
        Avatar photo

        By Backward Compatibility

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to On Backwards Compatiblity

        I don’t know of too many people who want ISA or even VESA supported but they do want to be able to open a Doc that they made in Word 2 years ago in the new version of Word.

        This is something that isn’t always possible.

        Actually I don’t know of any people who would attempt to plug in [b]Old Hardware[/b] to a new system unless of course it’s a USB Stick or something like that and there is always the Digital Camera but there shouldn’t be an issue with Backward Compatibility with USB Devices.

        Although I’ll admit to liking it if possible to plug in my SCSI Slide Scanner and having it run on XP but I can buy a new Driver CD from the maker it’s just that it’s such a messy business that I can’t be bothered so I keep a Win 98 unit around just to scan in Slides and the like. What is my main gripe here is that when I bought that scanner they already had XP out but no drivers available for it and now they want me to pay for them. And no it doesn’t have an ISA SCSI Card as all the M’Boards that I use have the SCSI built onto them.

        But here’s a reasonable question for you with the changes in M’Board design when are we going to start seeing the next Generation of Plug in Cards for the sockets that are already available? Even the higher Speed PCI sockets have very few devices that actually will plug into them once you remove the RAID Adaptors I don’t think that there are any and on my newest Intel M’Board there are 3 of these sockets. Granted most people would use one of these as a Server Board but I need a High End Workstation so the Dual Xeon suits my needs quite well.

        But on a recent Intel Chip Set M’Board that I used there where only 2 PCI Sockets 1 PCI Express and 3 PCI Enhanced or whatever they are called. Now I know the benefits of this new socket but as yet I haven’t seen anything at all to actually plug into them. Any idea when these new devices will be hitting the streets?

        Col

        • #3165361

          Huh?

          by emar1000 ·

          In reply to By Backward Compatibility

          I find it interesting that you don’t know of any people who would attempt to plug in Old Hardware to a new system.

          (?It?s an everyday occurrence whether it is in a business setting or a home user. ?)

          I also have never had any issues opening older office documents with newer versions of office. But then again if I do there is always ?Open Office?. I don?t think MS should have to make something backward compatible to where it will cost them money. Users need to learn to get up to date. As for your SCSI Scanner ?blame the maker?.

          I know you are saying they should, But I have heard more than one person complain about MS not making their products backward compatible. Why should they cater to those few that refuse to upgrade? I personally would rather not have backward compatible STUFF. Spend the money, or keep what you have and stop complaining.

          (I repeat) This was not an attack on you personally.

        • #3165258
          Avatar photo

          Well the point that I was trying to make

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Huh?

          Is you have a business running smoothly and then at the end of your current [b]Tax Cycle[/b] you replace your existing Hardware/Software combination and suddenly you are unable to read some Documents that are current or maybe even a Template that you have made previously in the supposedly [i]”Same Product!”[/i]

          With my stuff that isn’t a problem as I run 4 different Office Suites on my NB but as I do work for [b]Small Business[/b] this does have an effect on them which is very hard to justify when they run into it.

          I just haven’t run into a problem of needing to try to fit older hardware to a new computer other than external devices like Digital Cameras when it comes time to replace the units I replace the complete units though I’ll admit that I do very little [b]Home Users Work[/b] all my customers are Small to Medium Business so I don’t generally have a problem with this.

          But the main problem that I’ve seen is that with the way that the Tax Cycle works these business are hitting every second product so while the document may open generally any special formating is either lost or so messed up that it has to be created again. Now if this is a half page letter it’s no big deal but when it’s a 25 Page Tender that is used all the time by these business as a Template it is a different story and this is where things begin to hurt.

          Incidentally no Foul taken and [b]I do Blame the Scanners Maker[/b] so much so that I refuse to buy the XP drivers for the Bloody Thing. 😀

          Col

        • #3164476

          Actually I

          by emar1000 ·

          In reply to Well the point that I was trying to make

          didnt stop to think a little further. After reading your reply it just popped in my head (i hate to admit I opened my mouth first before thinking) but I did. When joey bag of doughnuts business down the street upgrades to office 2007 and I still have 2003 yes it would cause issues. Not to mention the time and money involved. I was just thinking of “interoffice” issues. Hey sometimes I do get small minded 😛

        • #3164408
          Avatar photo

          Don’t we all?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Actually I

          :^0

      • #3167550

        it’s a whole new ballgame with 64 bit

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to On Backwards Compatiblity

        i don’t think it is the same as there huge hurdles
        to overcome whilst some peoplae say vista will perform ok others are saying its not.

        • #3167512
          Avatar photo

          As it currently stands Vista has Issues

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to it’s a whole new ballgame with 64 bit

          With the 32 Bit Version and the 64 Bit version is about as useful as the 64 Bit version of XP nice to look at and a great idea in principal but not much to call home about when it’s all said and done.

          This isn’t so much because the 64 Bit version is utter crap but because there is still to little 64 bit software available. AMD has had 64 bit CPU’s for at least 3 years now maybe longer and we’ve yet to see and real development in the 64 bit programs.

          My main beef with MS however is the fact that they are going to insist on Digitally Signing all products to work on Vista which will mean that there is no cross platform development as part of MS Agreement to get Digitally Signed is not to develop drivers or software for other OS other then Windows.

          I see this type of action as at the very least Illegal but as is typical of MS they will bring on the technology and worry about the Law suits and Court Rulings latter long after any competition has disappeared. This I do not like about MS and the way that they do business. I don’t like the way that MS ring their partners and attempt to get you to sell pirate software either, it sucks of entrapment particularly when I know that I’ve had no complaints against me for anything MS related.

          I do the right thing by MS and I don’t expect to be treated like a criminal by them for doing as they say but I’ll live with the fact that I know that I’ve done the right thing and I have a very big stick in the form of [b]Free Legal Protection[/b] to fight any court battles though I would prefer to stay away from those places.
          Currently about the only thing that MS can complain about is the fact that I’ve installed the same Beta copy of Vista onto several different computers but as there isn’t anything preventing me from doing this they really don’t have anything to complain about particularly as I’m constantly feeding them problems as they occur.

          Is 64 Bit the way to go Yes but if MS is the way to go 64 Bit is a different question. I’ve got several different Linux’s that will all run quite happily on a 64 Bit CPU along with 64 Bit software none of which is currently available for any Windows OS.

          Maybe here Linux has the jump on MS [b]Again[/b] and will finally leave MS behind in the dust where it quite rightfully belongs. While MS has bags of money to throw at advertising they don’t have deep enough pockets to develop all the 64 Bit software that will be required by business and they certainly can not compete on the Games Market across the entire range. MS has to stick to it’s small corner in the games market and just hope for the best.

          Col

    • #3165478

      too soon…Way too soon

      by sir_cheats_alot ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Hey, it’s only a Beta! On top of that, i have to agree with the others…work on your grammer a while. Yes, i’m well aware that it is a resource hog. I personally won’t be getting it, because i refuse to spend $200+ for a 256Mb graphics card, and another $80 for another 512Mb RAM chip…even though i should just because i’m a gamer. Seriously a 128Mb video card, and 256Mb of RAM should be plenty to run both A OS and a game. the reported 15Gb install for the OS without anything else is a bit rediculous. I, as a logical, semi-intellegent individual, will wait until Vista comes out before i bash it…It’s common courtesy :p
      yes, yes i also know my spelling sucks…it’s not exactly a focus point in school these days.

      • #3207029

        Well guess what

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to too soon…Way too soon

        Vista runs on a graphics card with only 64 meg memory. By the way I am a MS Beta tester and I have tested Vista all builds since july of last year.
        I built this computer specically for Windows XP Pro. At first not all the hardware would install but the last few builds-everything on my computer works.
        The video card is a nVidia card with 256 DDR that cost me $75. It shows Aero with no problems.
        Also when I bought the gig of system meory it cost a total of $99.
        Also I’m using Vista at this time to reply to this thread.

        • #3206939
          Avatar photo

          Did you do a Clean install or Upgrade?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Well guess what

          If it was a clean install what software have you got to load?

          Personally I’ve found very little that can be installed from a clean HDD Install of Vista but I only have a Dual Core with HTT on a 955 Chip Set M’Board and a 256 MEG Video card with 4 GIG of System Memory. Aero works great but other than the Beta version of Office there is very little commercial software that I’ve been able to install. Perhaps I should have tried the Upgrade Option and then changed to Mixed Mode to see how things worked.

          I’ve only recently got the beta copy of Trend’s AV program so I’m really at the beginning of doing serious testing and I’m only working with the 32 Bit version as there just aren’t the Drivers or software available for the 64 Bit version yet.

          What I’ve found is that I can install XP Drivers and get the hardware running without a problem but when it comes to the software necessary for the hardware that’s a different story. I have a Aver Media Video Capture Card which just will not work on the current Version of Vista as I can not install the required software. The only software that I’ve been able to install is the Beta Office and everything that was on the Open CD for Windows so that’s Open Office which works perfectly but I can not get Corel Draw X3 to install or any of the other Mission Critical Business Applications that I use.

          Even the newer MS games will not install on the system but the older ones will though the graphics leave a lot to be desired. Particularly when you think that the slated release date for this version is November this year.

          But one thing that I’ve totally failed to see working is the supposed ability to stick in a USB RAM Stick and use that as Temp System Memory have you tried that and if so how much of a performance hit do you get?

          Col

        • #3215709

          Clean install of course but I have

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Did you do a Clean install or Upgrade?

          Done a upgrade but that was before I found a TV card that works(AverMedia Ultra TV 1500 MCE that works in Windows XP/MCE 2005 and (Thank God Vista))
          I always prefer a clean install because no matter how good they design a upgrade it will leave behind something that can mess up a computer.
          As we get closer to RTM I will be installing XP on a differant partition or hd and doing a upgrade to see if I can find any bugs.
          I don’t have a lot of commercial software to test with because I don’t have a lot of money. Mostly it will be software that is included with hardware I buy.

      • #3284862

        dog days for dell

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to too soon…Way too soon

        Businesses are holding off on buying PCs and servers because they’re waiting for Vista, Caughey said, referring to Microsoft’s newest version of its Windows operating system. She expects corporate spending on PCs to rebound once Vista is released later this year.If it is released at all???
        ta mick

      • #3284861

        dog days for dell

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to too soon…Way too soon

        Amazon.com Reveals Windows Vista Prices

        By ALLISON LINN
        AP Business Writer
        Last Updated:August 29. 2006 7:25PM
        Published: August 29. 2006 7:25PM

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        Microsoft Corp. will charge $239 for the version of the Windows Vista operating system it hopes most consumers will buy, according to prices listed on Internet retailer Amazon.com’s Web site.

        Amazon.com, which has begun taking pre-orders for Vista, also reveals list prices for two other versions. Those prices will be similar to what Microsoft currently charges for comparable versions of Windows XP, the current system.

        According to Amazon.com’s Web site, the version of Vista geared toward work use, Windows Vista Business, will cost $299, similar to the price for Windows XP Professional. The consumer version, Windows Vista Home Basic, will cost $199, the same as Windows XP Home.

        But Microsoft is hoping most consumers will embrace Windows Vista Premium, which offers entertainment capabilities such as the ability to record live television. That version is listed at $239. Similar functionality is available in the Media Center edition of Windows XP, but that is only available pre-loaded onto a computer, so comparable pricing is not available.

        The company also is hoping to sell consumers on another version of Vista, called Ultimate. That version, geared toward home users who also want to do some work from the family den, is listed for $399 on Amazon.com’s Web site.

        The prices listed on Amazon.com’s Web site are for those users who choose to buy the operating system on its own. Many consumers, however, buy Windows as part of a new computer purchase.

        It’s also generally cheaper to upgrade a machine from the current version of Windows to the new one. Amazon.com is selling the upgrade to Windows Vista Home Premium for $159, and the upgrade to Home Basic for $99.95.

        Microsoft declined comment on the prices. Kevin Kutz, a director in Microsoft’s Windows client unit, said the company will officially make prices public when it releases a near-final test version, called release candidate 1, which is expected by the end of September.

        Amazon.com spokesman Sean Sundwall said the Seattle-based online retailer posted the listings and began taking pre-orders two or three weeks ago because consumers were asking for that option. He said the prices are from the latest price sheet that Microsoft provided.

        “The one thing we were certain on is the price,” Sundwall said.

        But Sundwall said Amazon.com can’t be certain when Vista will be released. The retailer lists the ship date as Jan. 30, which Sundwall said was an estimate based on Microsoft’s public assertions that it plans to release the consumer version of Windows in January.

        Kutz said Microsoft is still on track to deliver the much-delayed Vista to big business clients in November and to consumers in January. But he reiterated that the company will not hesitate to delay Vista’s release if any problems crop up.

        “Quality is the ultimate determinant,” he said.

        Goldman Sachs analyst Rick Sherlund, who was among the first to note the Amazon.com listings, said in a research note that the prices listed on the Web site, if accurate, could provide some boost to Microsoft’s earnings. But he wrote that it was hard to judge exactly how Vista will affect Microsoft’s earnings because details such as the exact release date aren’t yet clear.

      • #3284860

        mac v ms

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to too soon…Way too soon

        Apple is already gearing up for a major marketing campaign for the holidays, and if they’re able to ramp up demand, and then deliver the system when they say it will be delivered, it could trump Microsoft in a way that Apple’s CEO Steve Jobs would crow about for years.

        • #3284770

          Bragging Rights?

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to mac v ms

          And that’s about it.

          When all you have is 3% of the market, a better holiday campaign isn’t enough.

          Apple could do that for the next 10 X-Mas’s and it wouldn’t matter.

        • #3284764

          i agree it’s a foregone conclussion

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Bragging Rights?

          I think the ultimate stranglehold on the software market will only be the test of time, you also have google throwing their hat into the operating software ring.
          ta mick

      • #3284857

        ms explorer 7

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to too soon…Way too soon

        Microsoft released a near-final version of its Internet Explorer 7 browser on Thursday, and the company said the free Web-surfing software is on track for completion by the end of the year.

        Internet Explorer 7 Release Candidate 1 contains all the features Microsoft hopes to include in the final product, its first major update for the program in years. Among the bells and whistles is the ability to open multiple “tabs” in the same browser window – a popular function in rival Mozilla’s Firefox browser – plus updated security functions.

        The near-final release is aimed at industry professionals and tech experts who may help the world’s largest software company spot last-minute kinks and bugs.

        Microsoft won’t say how many people have downloaded previous test versions.

        Tony Chor, a group program manager with Internet Explorer, said the company also has not decided whether it would put out one more test version before the final product is released. He said Microsoft is currently planning to make the final version of IE7 broadly available in the last three months of this year, barring any unexpected problems.

        IE 7 will be available for download for people using Windows XP, and it will be included in the forthcoming version of Windows, called Vista. After many delays, Vista is currently scheduled to be available for business users in November, and for consumers in January.

      • #3284856

        ms cut price vista

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to too soon…Way too soon

        Microsoft refused to elaborate on the potential discounts. But Michael Silver, research vice partner at analysts Gartner, said it was likely that the scheme would involve consumers who buy PCs before the holidays being given vouchers that will get money off a Vista upgrade when the software is released next year.

        Delays to the next generation of Windows, which accounts for 90 per cent of the market, are expected to hit PC and processor manufacturers as consumers delay buying new computers until the latest software is available.

        The voucher system would be designed to mitigate those effects but could also hit Microsoft’s bottom line.

        “It has become pretty clear that Microsoft was going to have to do something to help out retailers and PC manufacturers over the holiday,” Mr Silver said.

        It is thought the company had pencilled in a retail price of as much as ?400 for the consumer version of Windows, and that an upgrade from a previous version would cost as much ?100.

        Consumers can expect to pay less if they buy a new machine that has the operating system pre-loaded.

        News of the potential Vista discount comes as rivals predict that high costs associated with migrating from Windows XP to Windows Vista will spur companies to switch to rival systems like Linux.

        Novell, which builds applications to work on the open source system, would benefit from such a move.

        Widespread migration would hit Microsoft’s earnings hard. Combined with Office, the suite of office software, Windows accounts for the lion’s share of profits at the world’s largest software developer.

        Vista discounts could also signal the pressure Microsoft is under to maintain its traditional markets and muscle its way into new ones. Rumours have circulated in recent weeks that Microsoft is considering giving away music tracks in a bid to attract users away from Apple?s iTunes to its own online music store.

        Vista has already been more than four years in the making and has been postponed several times amid security concerns. The latest delay came earlier this year when quality problems put back the consumer version until early 2007.

        Fears were raised again last month when Microsoft said it was dealing with Vista “milestone by milestone” but refused to give a more detailed timetable.

      • #3284854

        ms blunder

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to too soon…Way too soon

        Microsoft’s latest announcement gives all 32-bit system owners a good reason for not upgrading to Vista. The company said at TechEd 2006 in Sydney that high-definition protected content would not be supported by the 32-bit versions of Windows Vista.

        In other words, people eager to see HD DVD and Blu-ray movies on their computers would have to upgrade to x64 edition of Vista. Needless to say, most of them would also require to upgrade their hardware to 64-bit systems.

        According to APC Magazine, Microsoft tried to soften the news by claiming that time will be the miracle cure for the situation and that 64-bit systems would have widespread adoption by the same time the HD DVD and Blu-ray formats would.

        However, Microsoft ?forgot? to mention a one more arising issue: x64 editions of Vista will require drivers signed by Microsoft. In order to get Microsoft’s signature, every driver must undergo extensive testing, thus leading to a long and costly process for every manufacturer.

        This would put Microsoft in a privileged position, as the company can strike preferential deal with some of the manufacturers, leaving other to wait their turn in line, which would prove disastrous for their businesses.

        On the other hand, even if Microsoft would work side by side with some developers, there’s still a big chance that drivers would arrive on the market later than the public was used to.

        As far as the 32-bit versions of Vista were concerned, Microsoft said it would leave them to run unsigned drivers because of application compatibility problems. While customers would get drivers much sooner, unsigned drivers would also allow users to employ software able bypass any copy protection on the discs. In conclusion, Microsoft’s decision should be a blow against piracy.

        Microsoft stressed out that the restrictions wouldn’t apply to HD DVD or Blu-ray in terms of storage capacity, but only to commercially produced movies:

        ?you could put an MPEG-4 movie on them and play them on a 32bit Vista PC just fine.?

        The statement is rather futile. If the next-gen formats are not compatible with 32-bit Vista, why should anyone choose HD DVD or Blu-ray discs as storage when it can use the current-gen (and much cheaper) DVD format?

      • #3284850

        re dell exploding batteries

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to too soon…Way too soon

        The computing industry’s culture is also partly to blame. Firms have long tried to ship products as fast as they possibly can, and they may have set less store by quality. They used to mock the telecoms industry’s ethos of ?five-nines??99.999% reliability?because it meant long product cycles. But now they are gradually accepting it as a benchmark. That is partly why Microsoft has taken so long to perfect its new operating system, Windows Vista.

      • #3284848

        Microsoft now needs a patch for its patch

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to too soon…Way too soon

        It just seems to get worse for for Microsoft on the Windows security front. Now the software company has been forced to create a patch for a patch released earlier this month which has introduced a new critical security vulnerability in Internet Explorer.

        The bug in the MS06-042 security update causes Internet Explorer 6 with Service Pack 1 to crash due a buffer overrun if the user visits certain websites. However, Microsoft now admits that flaw is exploitable and could allow an attacker to gain control of a computer if the user visits a website specially designed for that purpose.

        To make things worse, Microsoft has got into a public slanging match with security company eEye for disclosing publicly that the MS06-042 security update itself creates an exploitable flaw. eEye has been making a name for itself in recent months by discovering security flaws in the products of large security vendors such as Symantec and McAfee.

        According to Microsoft, eEye, which notified Microsoft of the vulnerability in MS06-042, should have stayed quiet until Microsoft had its fix for the patch completely ready for distribution.

        However, eEye in its own advisory on its website refutes Microsoft’s criticism and accuses Microsoft of originally misrepresenting the vulnerability saying:

        “This information is already known in various research circles and also with exploit writers. So it is important that IT administrators understand the true threat of this problem that this is not simply a crashing bug as Microsoft has been incorrectly misrepresenting it but in fact that it is an exploitable security bug. Researchers and exploit developers know this, therefore it is extremely important that IT administrators are told what really is going on.”

        At last report, Microsoft had still not released a new fix for MS06-042 because it found problems in a fix that was supposed to be released on Tuesday.

        The news of the latest bug comes in a month where Microsoft software security has been in the spotlight constantly. The Department of Homeland Security issued an alert highlighting the serious nature of a critical vulnerability in Windows addressed by security update MS06-040 and then Microsoft had to issue a fix for a problem discovered with that patch.

        In addition, it was revealed that two of the seven critical bugs revealed by Microsoft in August also affected the Beta 2 version of its upcoming replacement operating system Windows Vista. That news in itself was surprising because Microsoft has put a lot of work into making Vista bullet proof.

      • #3284844

        is vista going to be ready??see extract

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to too soon…Way too soon

        Extract from Is Windows Vista Ready? by Paul Thurrott

        There’s been a lot of speculation and opinion about Windows Vista lately. Many claim that Microsoft’s next generation operating system isn’t ready and can’t be made ready in time for the software giant’s self-imposed October 2006 Release to Manufacturing (RTM) deadline.

        Who are these people? And what are they really worried about?

        Some have said that Microsoft should wait until sometime in mid-2007 to ship Vista, because businesses aren’t lining up to deploy the new operating system any time soon. Heads up, guys: Businesses have never lined up to install a new Microsoft operating system. They always install new Windows versions gingerly and years after the fact. We’re all familiar with the “wait for Service Pack 1 (SP1)” mantra that many enterprises extol.

        Others have said that Microsoft should add a Beta 3 release between Beta 2 (which, yes, was lousy) and Release Candidate 1 (RC1), which presumably will ship by late August or early September. But that’s just arguing semantics. Who cares what the next milestone is named? What we should worry about is that the next milestone be more representative of the final product than was the previous milestone. Based on my experience with the last two interim builds, that will definitely be the case.

        Many beta testers tell me and their fellow testers that Windows Vista isn’t ready. But beta testers never think any Windows version is ready: If we left the ship decision to testers, we’d still be testing Windows XP. (OK, that one is an exaggeration, but one with a point behind it. Many beta testers simply like their exclusive little clique to continue as long as possible. Only they, after all, are qualified to determine when Windows is ready.)

        And then there are the online pundits, many of whom are barely old enough to legally buy alcohol. These guys are classic. Let’s just say that a lack of experience and a strongly worded opinion don’t result in the most coherent of arguments and leave it at that.

        So what’s left?

        I can’t speak for any of these people, but I do listen to what they have to say. I even agree with some of it. But I’ve been working with Windows Vista for a long, long time, and I’ve seen how it’s evolved. Heck, I’ve been working with Microsoft OS betas for over 12 years now, and while it’s very clear that Vista hasn’t exactly followed a trajectory that’s at all similar to any of the other betas, it’s also true that each OS beta has its own vibe. We might call Windows Vista a “train wreck” for simplicity’s sake. But it’s getting better. Seriously.
        Is Windows Vista ready?

        No. God, no. Today’s Windows Vista builds are a study in frustration, and trust me, I use the darn thing day in and day out, and I’ve seen what happens when you subject yourself to it wholeheartedly. I think I’ve mentioned the phrase “I could hear the screams” on the SuperSite before. My wife said that to me one day, and she was referring to the sound of me barking some primeval curse at my desktop PC as it succumbed to Vista’s stupid slowdowns, crashes, and hang ups for the umpteenth time. She, more than anyone, knows the frustration I’ve experienced because of Windows Vista. But even she doesn’t know the details. They would bore her, frankly. She’s normal like that.

        Here are some examples. I’m navigating around in Explorer and suddenly realize I need to access a file on a network share. In XP, this is easy as My Network Places is also available from the Task Pane. In Windows Vista, there’s no Task Pane, and there’s no link to Network in the new Favorite Links pane (though you can, admittedly, add one if you want, or add links to any network shortcuts). So you open Network from the Start Menu and wait … and wait… and wait… while the damn thing finds all your networked PCs and servers. In XP, this process is instantaneous.

        Here’s a more insidious one. In Windows Vista Beta 2, Adobe Photoshop Elements 4 would install but issue a warning when you ran it, noting that it was incompatible with Vista. You could ignore the warning and everything worked fine. However, in the subsequent two interim builds, Photoshop Elements 4 has literally gotten worse over time. Now, some key functionality simply doesn’t work or, oddly, only partially works. Save for Web, for example, now only saves in GIF format. I have no idea why. But because I use this product every single day, it’s impacted me in a big way. It’s annoying.

        Or take IE 7. Please. I use IE for one thing and one thing only: The magazine’s Web portal requires IE to post articles, and because I post WinInfo articles every day, I need to use IE. Every day. In IE 7, the rich edit control that forms the basis of the third party ActiveX control we used to post article bodies not only doesn’t work, it is actually deprecated in Vista so that it will never work, even if you manually install it. That means I will have to use an older version of IE, in a virtual machine, to post WinInfo articles for the foreseeable future. Stupid.

        And then there’s that wonderful “Recent Items” entry on the Start Menu. I can’t tell how it decides to cache stuff, but I can tell that it does not–ever–list the actual documents I most recently use. It’s infuriating.

        And why does the screen have to “pop” so violently when it switches between Aero and Windows Standard (“Windows Stupid,” as I’ve grown to call it) because I need to run an application that, for some reason, won’t let Aero continue running? (That application, by the way, is Virtual PC, which is required because of the IE issue mentioned previously. Auuuuugghhhhhh! It’s a re-entrant annoyance!)

        Why did I just waste four years making nice album art for music folders and custom folder art for photos? Microsoft changed folders completely in Windows Vista, and all that work just got flushed down the virtual toilet. (Microsoft calls this toilet the “Recycle Bin ” as opposed to Apple’s toilet, which was called “Mac OS 9.”)

        I like the way the Start Menu complains about no email application being set as the default every time I use the Search Box. I also like the way my machines jump to the logon screen every ten minutes despite the fact that I’ve configured Power Management not to do that. I especially like the way I can’t delete certain items from the desktop (randomly, it seems, like a game) unless I either reboot my machine or manually crash Explorer.exe. But my favorite Windows Vista behavior–and believe you me, this was a tough contest–has to be the weird COM object errors I get while cutting and pasting between Paint and Word 2007. (And yes, frankly, this could be an Office 2007 bug. But let’s face it, Office 2007 and Vista are “Better Together” as Microsoft likes to point out.)

        Let’s recap. Paul uses Vista every day as his only OS on each of his desktop and notebook machines. Paul has begun screaming a lot and it’s not because he’s taken up an anger management form of yoga. (That’s what Kabbalah really is, right?) Why is Paul now referring to himself in the third person? I can’t remember.
        Will Vista be ready in time?

        Honestly, who cares? After five years of delays, another six months isn’t going to make a difference. But just for the sake of argument, let’s say I have a stake in this and am being forced to render an opinion about Vista’s ship readiness for October. Will it be ready in time?

        Actually, I think it could be. I think that Microsoft will actually make this date, and as I write these words I’m acutely aware that Microsoft will announce another delay within minutes of its publication if only to discredit me. I can live with that because, as I said, I don’t really care. It’s just an opinion. Everyone has one.

        Do I think that Microsoft will finalize Windows Vista by the end of October 25? Yes, but I also believe they will release a massive series of patches between October 2006 and January 2007 if they do arbitrarily hit their latest release promise because of issues that crop up after Vista gets shipped out to all those businesses that won’t be installing it anyway. (Which brings me to a side issue: Why ship Vista to enterprises with volume license agreements before shipping it to consumers? Businesses are not going to install Vista anyway. Why waste the effort?)

        Windows Vista is huge and complex and a major change from Windows XP despite some high-level similarities between the two operating systems. Users are going to freak when their hardware and software doesn’t work right. They’re going to lose it when they can’t do things that were easy in XP but impossible in Vista. On the other hand, some things have improved enough to trigger instantaneous smiles. Microsoft should ship Vista when those smiles outnumber the screams. It’s simple math. Even a Pentium could do it correctly.
        The real question: When will Microsoft figure out what’s important?

        Here’s the thing. Microsoft was fooled into announcing a ship date because it felt that its customers were losing faith in the company’s ability to deliver. What Microsoft didn’t realize is that the way to win back customers’ hearts isn’t to make bold proclamations; it’s to actually do the right thing. (Reference: The Bush administration.)

        In other words, Microsoft should have simply pulled an Id Software and said they’d ship Windows Vista when it was ready. Period. They should have then begun actively educating people about all the wonderful stuff they’ve released between Windows XP and Windows Vista and pointed out that all those wonderful freebies (which naturally require Windows Genuine Advantage) are still coming as we speak. And look, can’t you see how Vista is getting better and better with each beta milestone?

        I don’t know how long Microsoft will need to finalize Windows Vista. Ultimately, I just want them to get it right. But if that means January, May, or even August 2007, so be it. But really, who cares what I think? At the end of the day, I’m just an online pundit/beta tester who likes technology a bit more than is healthy. And I really need to work on the screaming.

        ta mick

        • #3284826

          Why did you not cut and paste the latest he wrote on 5536

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to is vista going to be ready??see extract

          this is what he wrote as a conclusion
          Conclusions
          There’s no doubt about it: Windows Vista has taken too long to ship, and the first major milestone that Microsoft shipped to the public, Beta 2, was a disappointment. Since then, the company has shipped three promising interim builds to testers. The latest one, build 5536, an RC1 escrow build, is simply wonderful. If this build represents the quality, performance, and functionality that users can expect to see in RC1 and the final release, then Microsoft will have gone a long way towards making up for its mistakes and miscalculations. My only question is why we had to wait so long to see a build this good. If you can get your hands on 5536, enjoy it. If not, RC1 will be publicly available. Either way, you likely won’t be disappointed.

          –Paul Thurrott
          August 25-26, 2006

        • #3284789

          i left it to you as i knew it would

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Why did you not cut and paste the latest he wrote on 5536

          steal your thunder.Whils’t he has a point to make IF
          Vista comesout like it should then it would more than make up for the shortfall.But it is a BIG IF.But what is mentioned more of the functionality of vista but what is ommitted is the ongoing problems with the source code.
          so all is not so rosy.
          ta mick

      • #3284842

        re is vista ready

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to too soon…Way too soon

        extract from ohmey technology news
        Next year will be very special for computer users because Microsoft will release a new operating system called Windows Vista.

        Windows Vista will be the latest version of Microsoft Windows. It can be used in desktops, laptops and media centers.

        Microsoft has said that it will introduce the business version of Vista in Nov. 2007 and the consumer version in Jan.

        Five years after the successful release of Windows XP, Microsoft is adding hundreds of new features to Windows Vista. Vista will be helpful in file sharing, password setting and other areas.

        To make Vista secure from viruses, Microsoft has held discussions with more than 300 experts in the Information Technology sector.

        Even people who aren’t very technological like their computers to look pretty. The interface of Vista is named Windows Aero and is supposed to be more visually attractive than XP.

        According to Microsoft, Windows Vista will have an expanded search capacity. The sidebar will follow the same format as that used on Apple Computers. Internet Explorer 7 and Windows Media Player II can also be used in Vista.

        The new operating system will also have Windows Mail, which will please everyone who hates Outlook Express.

        In a move that brings Star Trek to mind there will also be speech recognition software. This will allow the computer to recognize the voices of the users and follow commands!

        Citizen reporters and other writers will be happy to hear that more fonts are available in Vista than in XP Windows. Budding filmmakers will be over the moon with the Windows DVD maker.

        There are two categories to run Vista. One is “Vista Capable” and the other is “Vista Premium Ready.” Both categories need different hardware capacities.

        For Vista Capable, 800 MHz Processor and 512 MB RAM is needed whereas for Vista Premium Ready 1 GHz processor and 1 GB RAM is needed.

        However, IT researchers claimed that there are some weaknesses in Vista. They say that Vista and the Mac OS X operation system for Apple computers are the same. They also say that the codes used for the manufacture of Vista aren’t strong.

        The reviewers criticize Vista, saying that Microsoft is not giving enough attention to digital content management and user account control.

        There are five months until the product launches. Let’s hope that will be enough time to solve these problems.

    • #3165332

      don’t hold back…

      by unclerob ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      tell us how you really feel!

      Vista is still a beta.
      Unfortunately maybe your specific system has some hardware compatability issues with Vista which is why you’re having such a bad experience with it.

      You mention security issues, since this OS hasn’t been released for mainstream consumption, I think it’s a little early to say that it has “security holes more than you can poke a stick at”. I wasn’t aware of any existing security exploits against vista already. And I’m not saying there won’t be security issues with Vista, all in all it should provide a more secure environment than we’re currently experiencing with WinXP SP2.

      Vista won’t be for everyone and until some finite hardware specs are released letting people know what hardware they have to purchase in order to run Vista, it’s a little speculative to say that Vista won’t run unless you have 1 GB of ram and a 3GB cpu.

      In the end, no one is forced to run Vista, you can only run Vista if you purchase it (beta’s don’t count) and if you don’t like it, don’t buy it. That’s probably the greatest power you & other consumers have over Microsoft, send them a message that you don’t like the software by not purchasing it.

      This wasn’t the greatest discussion to start, there are other Vista discussions in place where you could posted your statement as a reply instead of starting your own thread.

      Just my 0.02 cents cdn.

      • #3215708

        Hey Rob MS has released spec needed

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to don’t hold back…

        http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/capable.mspx
        This tells exactly what is needed.
        Vista capable
        A modern processor (at least 800MHz1).
        512 MB of system memory.
        A graphics processor that is DirectX 9 capable.

        For Primium Vista
        1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor1.
        1 GB of system memory.
        A graphics processor that runs Windows Aero2.
        128 MB of graphics memory.
        40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
        DVD-ROM Drive3.
        Audio output capability.
        Internet access capability.
        Those spec’s tell me that If your pc can run XP that you can run Vista.

        • #3277224

          a little confused by your reply…

          by unclerob ·

          In reply to Hey Rob MS has released spec needed

          nothing in my post suggested that I didn’t know what the required specs for vista are, on the contrary I’ve tested the recent vista beta on a few machines, each of them with more than capable specs (both of them still falling short performance wise which is why I guess this discussion has flourished some much)

          In fact, I’ve also installed the vista transformation pack on one of my winxp machines to get a handle on the vista gui experience, so far I’m undecided but at least I know what windows will look like when the next os is finally release (whenever that is)

          …. rob,wpg

        • #3166699

          I agree with you Uncle Rob

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to a little confused by your reply…

          I don’t know, but i know that a lot of things have been hastily taken down from The MS website including a review on specs.As vista will not install on some hardware & MS knows full well that
          they cannot make sham specs for the sake of it.
          A big IF is it’s continual release of betas is under review as it’s plagued by huge technical problems.
          ta mick

    • #3165275

      Anyone can speak Troll, you just point and grunt !

      by red_wolf9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Has anyone noticed that GSARAVIN has not posted since the original flame?

      Let the thread die already.
      Friends don’t let friends feed trolls.

      • #3164538

        Reminds me of another discussion

        by moira ·

        In reply to Anyone can speak Troll, you just point and grunt !

        There was an initial post regarding ageism in IT or something like that – deliberately designed to be provocative and get people’s backs up.

        Turned out to be written by someone who actually held the diametrically opposite view and was merely trying to see arguments which would in fact, back this view up.

    • #3164522

      Hope it’s not as bad as your grammar!

      by mr first ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      If it’s as bad as gsaravin’s grammar, we are in trouble!

    • #3164382

      Now tell us how you really feel

      by !thebear ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Please be patient. By the time Vista actually arrives we will all be a year older and we will have new computers.

      Remain calm.

    • #3164331

      I’ve read the reviews

      by mjd420nova ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I’m going to save my opinions until a full version is released. From the responses I’ve read, few are pleased with the performance. My estimation is that you must have a fast processor, and preferably a dual core one. The drivers seem to be the down fall, and I’m sure that when the full set gets out, that will have been fixed. If it turns out like MS expects, it will be my next OS to play with. I have already begun shopping for the parts to put together a functional system that would handle it. If it’s as fast as touted, I may be able to finally combine all of my needed peripherals into one system without needing multiple platforms.

      • #3164278

        I’ve read the reviews

        by researcher75 ·

        In reply to I’ve read the reviews

        My sentiments exactly mjd420nova – I already have the motherboard the new ABIT AN 32X Series 939 socket with a 2GHZ system bus for a dual core AMD CPU and 2GB RAM DDR 400, we should get some interesting results?

        • #3145365
          Avatar photo

          Well just for your information

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to I’ve read the reviews

          When all the different versions of Vista are finally released there are supposed to be 7 versions of the 32 Bit OS and 7 of the 64 Bit OS.

          Right at the moment the stumbling block is the 64 Bit OS as there are still insufficient Drivers available for it and even less software support.

          The above rant may be correct regarding the 64 Bit Versions but then again exactly the same things apply to the 64 Bit Version of XP as well but I very much doubt that it will be true of the 32 Bit versions when they become available.

          There is however one thing that I’m still in 2 minds about but this will mainly apply to NB’s if you need some extra RAM you can plug in a USB RAM Stick and that can be used as System Memory. While the idea sounds like a good one to get out of trouble in the short term it will have to affect the performance of the unit when this is being used.

          Col

    • #3113748

      re crap vista- re visited

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
      release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
      my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
      & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i do’t think too many people
      ar ready to ditch their operating systems.

      • #3206911

        You chill out.

        by the truth ·

        In reply to re crap vista- re visited

        It’s possible you’re wrong. It’s also possible that what you experienced is unique to you. Some people have different experiences or opinions. Get over it and SHUT UP.

      • #3214598

        Time for YOU to “chill out”..

        by jfowler ·

        In reply to re crap vista- re visited

        How many times are you going to repeat the same garbage? Everyone got your point 80 posts ago. Give it a rest dude!

        • #3229392

          we should all chill out!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Time for YOU to “chill out”..

          we all need a break & need to chill out dudes!
          ta mick

          ps we need it as we all work hard & deserve more money!

    • #3113747

      re crap vista- re visited

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
      release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
      my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
      & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
      are ready to ditch their operating systems.

      • #3113715

        Why are U just re-posting same content?

        by nehpets ·

        In reply to re crap vista- re visited

        You seem to have just copied your original post, and pasted it into hal a dozen new posts?
        Whats the point?

        As for people “dumping” operating system….
        MS don’t care about you, or other individual upgraders…

        When you buy a new PC, you will get VISTA…
        Corporates with SA, will get Vista…
        and MS will get the numbers…

        end of story, its just history repeating itself….

        • #3113712

          YES YOU ARE RIGHT!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Why are U just re-posting same content?

          this ishappening because of vista th cut & paste function doesn’t work properly & some letters do’t appear.you are spot on.

        • #3113711

          YES YOU ARE RIGHT!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Why are U just re-posting same content?

          this ishappening because of vista th cut & paste function doesn’t work properly & some letters do’t appear.you are spot on.I’m sory i’ll just ditch vista &go to xp.

        • #3113658

          Reputation and relevance

          by steve.marshall ·

          In reply to YES YOU ARE RIGHT!

          I don’t often post here, I find it more interesting to read many of the discussions and usually find that someone has suggested or made comments similar to those I would like to voice, so do not feel it’s worth repeating them.

          Unfortunately it doesnt look like our friend gsaravin has the decency to do the same. I have gone through this thread now and am actually repulsed by the lack of objectiveness and relevance of any of your posts, this repetition of your “background” serves little relevance and its credibility stripped with every re-enouncement of your credentials… Just makes me feel that, even if they are true, it is more likely that your nothing more than a junior tech or tech student that has had the chance to play with a BETA for the first time in your career/life.

          If you look at ALL of the MS OS BETA’s historically driver databases have never been complete until release (and even then had amendments with service packs fairly swiftly after release). Have never been final working release version (erm… read BETA) and therefore are expected to be buggy, the WHOLE POINT of you having access to the BETA is to test it prior to release and comment on the problems you find with it…

          Try to remember that your posts reflect future relevance and insight on other discussions… I for one will certainly be ignoring anything that contains your sig, prejudging them as worthless blathering, which maybe unfair, but you have set your own value that will unfortunately deface anything else you write before it is even written.

          This may be deemed as harsh, I hope you take it as so and try and gleen something from it to take with you in the future.

          Anyway, getting bored of this whole thread, completely pointless and as you have so painfully missed the point of the entire pre-relase program you are very likely to miss the point of this post so will not waste a moment more on it.

        • #3113532

          Well Said

          by joe ·

          In reply to Reputation and relevance

          Your reply to this thread was well stated. As a 24 year veteran of the IT industry I could not agree with you more. If gsaravin is not a rookie he certainly is acting like one. I spent 10 years as a Microsoft and Cisco trainer as well as many years designing and building large corporate networks. Maybe this is the first beta gsaravin has ever seen. He should read the early beta reports from any Linux implementation, they are almost identical to the beta reports for Microsoft. I doubt that Microsoft will make their deadline for release, they have never made one of these deadlines going back to windows 2.0 (yes there was a windows 2.0)
          What really gets me is gsaravin acts like everyother software vendor releases pure clean code. I remember, 12-15 years ago,a Novell rollout during the early days of pc Raid technology. We installed it and all the clients data was destroyed by what turned out to be a software bug, this was in a production release. Thankfully we had good quality backups.

          The bottom line is that beta is beta and don’t think production release 1 is perfect either. The fact is this is the world we live in get use to it or get into a different line of work.

        • #3168723

          I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN IT FOR 29 YEARS!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well Said

          this is my thread in this discussion if you don’t like it get off
          you are entitled to your view butyou are utterly wrong when you say i’m a junior tech.I have found major design faults in vista that you don’t seem to comprehen fully.we know it’s a beta but i’m telling you that vista will not make the light of day seriously.my job entails looking at such systems & i have spoken my mind & i have the backup to proove it!This is my thread i started it get off!

        • #3166904

          29 years or not…..

          by ivefallen ·

          In reply to I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN IT FOR 29 YEARS!

          the problem with everything you say is the way you present it. You don’t sound (or act) very professional and that is your biggest problem. It’s people like yourself that are the bane of IT’s existence. It’s not too late, you know.

        • #3199945

          experience

          by arizmendi ·

          In reply to I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN IT FOR 29 YEARS!

          As one of my bosses at JPL told me back in the sixties (paraphrased): “Some people have 29 years experience, some have one years experience 29 times”.

        • #3168724

          my job is testing operating systems

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Reputation and relevance

          you are entitled to your view butyou are utterly wrong when you say i’m a junior tech.I have found major design faults in vista that you don’t seem to comprehen fully.we know it’s a beta but i’m telling you that vista will not make the light of day seriously.my job entails looking at such systems & i have spoken my mind & i have the backup to proove it!This is my thread i started it get off!

        • #3168720

          im speaking from good hard experience

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Reputation and relevance

          i know that i’m right i’m not agains’t anyone or system.I have simply found that we are all led up the proverbial garden path once too often.i’ll say it again that i have thouroughly tested vista & it has major shortcomings that will not be fixed in time,& because i’m such a talented & experienced person i beleive that vista will not see the light of day as a full release.In saying this i’m not against anyone.This is not going to make it as there are
          major design flaws & problems so expect MS to abandon it soon!In speaking i have experience & it is not an off the cuff comment.I can back it up!

        • #3215707

          You keep saying you can back it up but no where

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to im speaking from good hard experience

          Have you backed it up. You just keep posting the same retoric time after time. How about backing it up-lets see your proof????

        • #3229389

          dude the proof will come !

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to You keep saying you can back it up but no where

          Just hang inthere the proof will come when there is anouncement that MS will not release vista because it’s such a flop.
          ta mick ster

        • #3168387

          GET OUT OF MY POSTING!!!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Reputation and relevance

          GET GET OUT OF MY POSTING!!!OUT OF MY POSTING!!!GET OUT OF MY POSTING!!!
          GET OUT OF MY POSTING!!!
          GET OUT OF MY POSTING!!!
          i HOPE YOU GOT THAT! YOU INSULTIN PIECE OF SH..T

        • #3209931

          Just when we thought you could sink no lower…

          by daveo2000 ·

          In reply to GET OUT OF MY POSTING!!!

          It isn’t [b]your[/b] thread. It is [b]a[/b] thread on a publicly available forum which you have chosen to contribute precious little in content and far too much in repititious rambling.

          Just for fun, check out the posts by HAL9000. He has even responded to one of your posts with thoughtful commentary. He has a history of thoughtful commentary. I have never seen him post the same text twice. You could learn something from him if you tried.

          He also knows how to turn off the Caps Lock key. It is a toggle that reverses the function of the Shift key. You can tell when it is on because your text comes out like the posting just prior to this one when you said “i HOPE YOU GOT THAT!”. Did you get that? It isn’t a Vista function so please don’t blame that on MS.

          By the way, nobody is in your posting. A posting is what you do when you hit “Submit My Comments”. Sometimes there are other postings between your postings. That happens when somebody thinks you have said something worth replying to or when you actually wait more than a minute between submitting one post and submitting another with a different subject line but the same old message.

          As a last thought, go out and have a non-caffeinated drink and a nice healthy meal… nothing with to much sugar in it. Get some sun, take a walk and find a nice young psychology student to talk to. Preferably somebody studying anger management and interpersonal communication. You have clearly got some issues to work through.

          I am looking forward to see how you flame me.

        • #3209928

          nice try but it’s not going to work

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Just when we thought you could sink no lower…

          your just trying to upset me & have a go at me & insult me.This thread should stay as a vista thread & lets keep it that way.Wew may agree to disagree but you have a right of say provided you show a bit of respect.

        • #3167563

          we know vista is crap but

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Reputation and relevance

          so are your comments as you simply say that’s beta ho hum whereas i test systems & hardware & write reports evaluating the operating systems.You on the other hand do nothing & critcise other people who do.You don’t have much to contribute where as i have
          to the point that i’ll repeat it that vista cannot adequtely cope in the 64 bit architecture thats why i’ve said it’s crap & i have tangible evidence through my thorough testing procedures.
          there are other major problems such as overheating
          of chips & video cards in that more is required of them as they are pushed beyond their limits.In essence pushing limits beyond normal 32 bit seems to be in no no land.I have come accross other problems that is that where dynamic links fail to work all together & software that is 32 bit will refuse to function.Ive tried testing with 64 bit software & experienced crashes & instability.

        • #3217923

          64 bit OS?

          by jaytmoon ·

          In reply to we know vista is crap but

          Can you, from your experience, recommend a working 64bit OS?

        • #3217862

          Without knocking anyone the only 64 bit would be the

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to 64 bit OS?

          64 bit xp that is workable to some extent.
          As to the different oSes we have to wait perhaps another year or two untill the dust settles.It’s a wait & see attitudeas software & hardware becomes more available then more testing can be done.
          I’ve tried to test 64 bit software as regards to video editing & i’ve had some crashes.So it’s too early to say yay or nay.
          ta mick

        • #3217857
          Avatar photo

          Depends on what it is you want to do

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to 64 bit OS?

          If it’s just a straight Desktop type application any of the more common Debian based Releases of Linux or one of the BSD’s will do the trick quite nicely thank you very much.

          If you would like to tell me what you want to do I can post back with the right OS for your needs. Just remember that because people call them Open Source that doesn’t mean that they are free or that the applications that you want to run on them are free either.

          For any of the decent ones you pay for them but generally speaking no where near as much as you would pay for a Windows Alternative. The specialised software though is a totally different story. If you are looking at doing CG Stuff that is really expensive with the Professional Programs that have been developed and the hardware required to run them properly. But they are normally the exception not the rule.

          Col

      • #3168736

        Not another one……

        by jcdyson ·

        In reply to re crap vista- re visited

        Beta Release!!!!
        Mate the releases that we have seen are just that Beta releases they are not even close to a polished product. I am not going to get into a slanging match about what quals you have because regardless of how many post nominals you have, experience is the thing that counts and honestly with the comments you have posted you are sounding too much like a newbie straight out of academia for me to get into anything of the sort, esp. when all you seem to do is cut and paste the same post over and over sounding like a broken record. A Beta is released to the IT community within MSDN and TechNet etc to allow us Professionals to evaluate the beta not go out and try and run everything that can be run on a polished OS such as XP or 2K. Naturally there will be some instability, and compatibility issues for some hardware/software with a Beta it?s because it is just that a BETA release. It is definitely not for general release nor should you even contemplate putting it into your production environment. I have ?played? with the latest release and whilst I have some minor reservations in the recovery and search functions as previous posters have eluded too, I am happy with what I am seeing and once the production version is released (and only then) will I make any harsh judgments or consider releasing it to my fleet.

        • #3168722

          with due respect.We were asked to comment

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Not another one……

          I was frank & to the point simply without fear or favour some people can’t accept that.I have assesed the inner workings of vista & have recommended that it will not function like the other releases be it vista beta or vista actual release.Being 29 years in IT ,i have inner contacts with MS & secretely they have assured me beta or no beta vista will not see the light of day as there are severe performance restrictions in the 64 bit architecture.I’m frank about it i have checked it out by going to the source code etc .trust me it is crap.it is all pie in the sky.

        • #3168204

          Re: With due respect. We were asked to comment

          by jcdyson ·

          In reply to with due respect.We were asked to comment

          Clearly you have missed the point of why my esteemed colleagues and I are saying. It was not my intention to incite terse comments I was merely stating that the comments you put up were subjective, appeared ill-informed and your argument is not backed up with factual evidence. As for your comment “I was frank & to the point simply without fear…” The only frank statement you have made is “Its Crap!!” You state that you have been in the industry for 29 years and as such I would expect a backed up factual argument showing, 1.that you have objectively reviewed the beta and 2.the reasons you feel, as you not so eloquently put it, “It’s crap”.
          With regard to your statement “…there are severe performance restrictions in the 64 bit architecture.” Um cutting edge technology!!! Currently I don’t know of many businesses except those in video or 3D rendering that need to use the power of 64Bit. Until it [64bit] becomes main stream we will have teething problems and therefore it will take time for applications to truly utilise 64bit as opposed to the current 32bit architecture we are used to. I don’t expect that we will see great improvements in 64 bit in beta releases of Vista and envisage that the first production release will be similar in that respect. Remember the first production release of 2k you had to go out and obtain drivers before you installed it however once the first update was released everything ran a lot smoother. The reason 2K was problematic was that it pushed the boundaries of technology in similar ways to what the 64 bit Vista release is going to do.
          Therefore by making unsubstantiated ill-informed comments you do nothing to sway people in favour of your argument it in-fact detracts from it; Thus I stand by my original statement that you sound more like a newbie straight out of academia than an alleged experienced veteran with stated 29 years experience. Furthermore, it seems that you have never been involved in any sort beta release program and would not have a clue in how to submit an objective well informed argument. It you were my software tester and you submitted something like the comments you started this post with I would have you thrown off the project quicker than you could type your own name.

        • #3167632

          I have read all this to tell me that it’s BETA

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Not another one……

          WE know that this is beta but you have not really acknowledged that there are major faults or problems
          with vista beta.you say you have minor reservations but i have major reservations that i think that it’s not going to make it in the 64 bit architecture!That’s what i mean by vista i’ts crap.I base this on my own testing & research!.

      • #2531636

        this still

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to re crap vista- re visited

        applies

    • #3168721

      is it rude to speak the truth& to be wronged when you are right

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      i know that i’m right i’m not agains’t anyone or system.I have simply found that we are all led up the proverbial garden path once too often.i’ll say it again that i have thouroughly testedvista & it has major shortcomings that will be fixed in time,& because i’m such a talented & experienced person i beleive that vista will not see the light of day as a full release.In saying this i’m not against anyone.This is not going to make it as there are
      major design flaws & problems so expect MS to abandon it soon!In speaking i have experience & it is not an off the cuff comment.I can back it up!

      • #3168200

        iknow what i know & i would stake my reputation

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to is it rude to speak the truth& to be wronged when you are right

        You people are attacking me instead of going out for yourselves & seeing first hand of what is really happening.Coupled with this you treat it as i have spoken too soon & i know i havent as i have contacts within microsoft.I know what a beta release is.I can also tellyou what vista is really tryng to bring is mostly cosmetic that won’t show much benefit.I don’t know how you can dissagree with me when you can see a lot of people have allready agreed on some of the problems.Also we are heading into a new grey area
        64 bit architecture all i’m saying is that it is happening toofast without due regard for proper hardware or software to handle it.Not only this
        people have said that the future will be with 128
        bit.256 bit,512 bit up to 712 bit operating systems.I would like to see what operating system they have planned???.All i’m saying is i have examined the details & vista does not answer the needs of the 64 bit architecture as i have tested it thouroughly.
        expect performance in the 32 bit area.

        you can agree to disagree you are entitled to your opinion.My recommendation is i know i’m right!

        • #3168178

          Congratulations gsaravin !

          by steve.marshall ·

          In reply to iknow what i know & i would stake my reputation

          You almost… almost, put up a constructive critical post there !

          Unfortunately you threw it away at the end with “My recommendation is I know i’m right!” You know nothing, all you know is that the current Beta is flawed which is something we all know, that’s why its still a beta release.

          Your entire argument is flawed as you lack the understanding of hardware and software life cycles. Software forces hardware vendors to up the stakes, and I assure you, that if MS are bulldozing for Inetl, AMD etc to produce chips that will take advantage of their OS they will.

          When the PII’s + where realeased to the general public did you honestly believe that they were the greatest and latest chips that Intel were working on ? I know for a fact that they had 1.2g development processor in the works when the PII hit the market place. Do you not think that manufacturers already have their own beta programs for hardware to put the Vista platform on ???

          You continually seem to be trying to infer that you have omnipotent foresight into Microsofts plans and expert knowledge on the major chip manufacturers… well… I’m afraid that it is plainly obvious through the absolutely trash posts you have made that you are either a child troll looking to try and impose your biased and short sighted views on people that have a good understanding of the laws of progression. Or, you’re some kind of tech in what is obviously an over paid and poorly managed position otherwise you would have been fired years ago… 29 years experience… don’t make me laugh, 29 days maybe, and probably fresh out of school with the business sence of a Gibbon.

          You have discredited yourself so many times the only real reason i’m posting here is due to rubber knecking syndrome, can’t resist looking at a disaster site, and you Gsaravin are clearly the disaster…

          If you were in beta, i’d scrap the project immediately.

        • #3168394

          you don’t know what your talking about..

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Congratulations gsaravin !

          When we later find out that either our hardware or software will not work either in the realm of 64 bit or 32 bit as drivers for vista are incompatible.So in essence people will be forced to buy new systems & new hardware.Don’t think that i’m anti microsoft & or anty vista far from it.We just are going to be at the mercy at whatever comes our way.Like many we’l be the ones suffering!
          As i said i have done some core testing & i have found big compatibility problems & i know beta is beta but will they fix it in time for release.

        • #3168388

          a typical comment from an uneducated newbie

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Congratulations gsaravin !

          you show no respect at all ,think of all thepostings on these threads you’ll see funny that,they all agree with me & you have taken to agree but you have decided to knock me personally i have more experience than you & i have personal
          contacts with developers at Microsoft,i know what im takinga aboutyou dont.i suggest that you don’t stay here & go somewhere else as i started this thread & it doesn’t matter as we don’t need people like you!.

        • #3166995

          Ohhh Rly ?

          by steve.marshall ·

          In reply to a typical comment from an uneducated newbie

          … unfortunately for you, it is I that is at the advantage as I have not declared my experience (40 times might I add) in broken english and poor grammar.

          You are the person declaring you have 29 years experience but everything you have posted thus far points at the diometric opposite.

          I show no respect simply because you don’t deserve any, respect is earnt, It would appear you haven’t earnt your salary for the last 29 years (If your demonstration of testing OS’s in this forum is consistent with your work methodology).

          Nobody is disputing that Vista has issues, people are suggesting that your original post and subsequent garbage posts are completely unwarranted, inacurate and bland.

          Just because you started a thread doesnt give you sole ownership of it, anyway, starting this thread is little to be proud of. All you have achieved is making everyone painfully aware that your posts are a complete waste of time and only really open for people to rip apart in a moment of distraction during their real jobs.

          I would reasses who you regard as “We” too… I have not witnessed anywhere on this thread anyone suggesting that you are right on the money, that Vista is a complete load of garbage and will never hit production… please correct me if i’m wrong… I will “sit” corrected if so.

        • #3167846

          More Adventures in Beta Testing Vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Ohhh Rly ?

          I finally got my hands on a copy of Windows Vista Beta 2 and wouldn’t you know it, the motherboard in my test system bit the dust. My goal in testing Vista was to use the same system throughout the entire beta program in order to see how my hardware would fare with each successive release of Windows Vista. So I ordered a new, comparable motherboard that carried the same onboard ATI RadeonXpress 200 graphics system with 128 MB of shared memory and accepted my AMD Athlon 64 3400+ CPU. However, I did decide to add another 512MB chip to bump my RAM up to 1GB.

          More Adventures in Beta Testing Vista

        • #3167824

          You have been basing your comments on Beta 1!!!

          by jcdyson ·

          In reply to More Adventures in Beta Testing Vista

          For the sake of the Gods mate!!! You have just proved that you are a dead set doof when it comes to beta testing esp since your comments were based solely on beta 1. In your posts you claim to have tested them all, yet you come out after in excess of 100 posts and say Oh “I finally got my hands on a copy of Windows Vista Beta 2” I fail to see any reason for me to even remotely consider anything you have said in the past or in the future as anything better than utter Garbage. Your whole credibility (if you had any from the start) is now shot down the proverbial and as for your comments of 29 years exp don’t make me laugh. It is my belief that you have only been in the industry since morning tea (another words 3/5ths of stuff all) and should get some time up before you go shooting your mouth off again!!!

        • #3167752

          sorry for the typo i have tested all of them

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to More Adventures in Beta Testing Vista

          2 was a typo error

        • #3208497

          um…

          by palerider2 ·

          In reply to a typical comment from an uneducated newbie

          gsaravin, you are delusional, at best, and an idiot, at worst…or perhaps you’re still in grammar school, and struggling to understand reality…either way, you need help!

        • #3199246

          i know i’m right!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to um…

          you don’t know anything all you can do is knock me & i have been right all the time regarding vista.If all you can do is knock me then you are totally deluded & you are not fit to be on these
          pages.Who are you to judge others on grammar i have yet to see you writing on these pages.As i see it all of you have eaten humble pie!
          If you bother to look on these threads i have thoroughly tested all the betas & have posted the
          results if you bother to look!.
          But to you uneducated it appears as rantings & ravings.I want nothing less but an apology.You have an attitude problem!

        • #3167636

          you are plainly rude & jealous !

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Congratulations gsaravin !

          You have nothing to contribute that’s tangible in regards to vista you keep straying off the topic.
          you are merely conjecturing here maybe this maybe that with no real evidence or proof of what you are saying.your on the same boat as everyone else.All i’m saying that vista is not all what is cracked up
          to be & i don’t think it is going to make it in the 64 bit arena.in a nutshell thats what i’m saying & that’s what i’m sticking to.Whether it is popular or not.

        • #3167635

          you are plainly rude & jealous !

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Congratulations gsaravin !

          You have nothing to contribute that’s tangible in regards to vista you keep straying off the topic.
          you are merely conjecturing here maybe this maybe that with no real evidence or proof of what you are saying.your on the same boat as everyone else.All i’m saying that vista is not all what is cracked up
          to be & i don’t think it is going to make it in the 64 bit arena.in a nutshell thats what i’m saying & that’s what i’m sticking to.Whether it is popular or not.

        • #3167488

          You actually have the gall to call someone else rude?

          by ivefallen ·

          In reply to you are plainly rude & jealous !

          Quotes

          “GET OUT OF MY POSTING!!!”

          “You are a stooge for microsoft!”

          “No one has asked you to stay on this thread!”

          This is straight from the horses keyboard, you being the horse. As I stated earlier, it’s not about what you say it’s how you say it. If you ever expect to be taken seriously, you may want to brush up on your grammer and your attitude. Right now, you seem less like an IT professional and more like an arrogant fool. A thought for you to ponder:

          “There is no sin greater than ignorance”

          Rudyard Kipling

        • #3167287

          freedom of expression

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to You actually have the gall to call someone else rude?

          you have the right to be heard i didn’t attack you guys personally remember you guys started to get derogatorynot me you tried to ridicule me as if i dont’t know what i’m talking.

        • #3206910

          You are a rude, arrogant idiot. Shut up.

          by the truth ·

          In reply to freedom of expression

          same as the subject title…

    • #3168719

      ALL I’M TRYING TO PROMOTE IS A HEALTHY DEBATE

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      dONT SHOOT THE MESSENGERi undestand what betas are etc etc so i for one will not criticise microsoft because i hate them ,i don’t hate them
      you all got it wrong i have evaluated their system &it has simply got major short comings
      at least stand up for what you beleive.In so doing i have received over 100 replies,i have really stirred up a hornets nest .I think people will be stirred up for a change & ask pertinent
      questions like have they reached the end of the road for the operating systems.At least i’m honest & i have 29 years of experience to back it up.

      • #3168708

        “Don’t shoot the messenger”…

        by steve.marshall ·

        In reply to ALL I’M TRYING TO PROMOTE IS A HEALTHY DEBATE

        A messenger delivers information, be it good news or bad, you… as the proverbial carrier pigeon have done nothing more than pooped on the “head” of debate.

        You have done nothing but bad mouth Vista without any constructive comments to back up your points, in fact, you haven’t MADE any points at all.

        Discussion is about debating an issue, thing, question, none of which have been opened to the floor by you.

        We have had numerous amounts of duplicate posts yet infinitely devoid of any real content and your (limited) resume posted more times than I care to remember…

        I ask you, if your JOB is to test operating systems, do you submit product reports in a similar fashion ?

        Sample:

        “Microsoft Vista OS review by gsaravin”
        “This operating system is Krap”
        “End”

        Ya know, I would expect this kind of stuff to come from a 12 year old forum troll, not someone who has aledgedly spent 29 years in the industry… I would suggest you review you debating techniques…

        • #3168197

          i know i’m right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to “Don’t shoot the messenger”…

          You people are attacking me instead of going out for yourselves & seeing first hand of what is really happening.Coupled with this you treat it as i have spoken too soon & i know i havent as i have contacts within microsoft.I know what a beta release is.I can also tellyou what vista is really tryng to bring is mostly cosmetic that won’t show much benefit.I don’t know how you can dissagree with me when you can see a lot of people have allready agreed on some of the problems.Also we are heading into a new grey area
          64 bit architecture all i’m saying is that it is happening toofast without due regard for proper hardware or software to handle it.Not only this
          people have said that the future will be with 128
          bit.256 bit,512 bit up to 712 bit operating systems.I would like to see what operating system they have planned???.All i’m saying is i have examined the details & vista does not answer the needs of the 64 bit architecture as i have tested it thouroughly.
          expect performance in the 32 bit area.

          you can agree to disagree you are entitled to your opinion.My recommendation is i know i’m right!

      • #3168603

        What did you expect of a new OS Beta?

        by joe ·

        In reply to ALL I’M TRYING TO PROMOTE IS A HEALTHY DEBATE

        Having been around as long as you claim, is this your first experience with a beta rollout? You make comments as though you think a product in this stage of development should be bug free. Vista, like it predecessors is built to utilize the hardware of tomorrow. When Windows 2000 was first announced its hardware requirements were well beyond the current norm. Most systems had 64-128 mb of ram when Windows 2000 was in development and there were people then making the same statements as you have made. (?vista requires basic i gig of ram,100 gig hard drive,dual processor core at least 3 gig processor.compatibility is a big issue?). Do you really believe that the way ram in personal computers has exploded that we won?t see 2gb as the standard in the next 12-8 months? Dual Core processors are becoming the norm. As always in the past software developments have pushed new hardware to be accepted. I can not tell you the number of times I have had to replace most of the hardware in a clients network in order to implement a new Operating system. This is normal in the IT world.

        With IT experience should come some wisdom about these things. When NT5 was in development (later renamed Windows 2000) there were many more issues with its beta than I have seen in Vista. We had serious site replication issues as well as kernel issues and many other problems which meant Microsoft had to keep moving back the rollout date. However bad the problems were and no matter how many experts like yourself said Windows 2000 would not see the light of day , it did and it has become the standard.

        In your original statement ?vista is a crap system? I would disagree that it is crap. I would say that it is not ready for production and that Microsoft has a way to go before this is ready for production. Microsoft is already talking about moving release dates back. A trait that has happened to every OS they have developed.

        My basic complaint with your thread is that I am not sure what you were expecting. When I saw that you have 29 years experience then I really got confused about what a veteran of 29 years and what must be numerous OS changes in those years was thinking whey you wrote your comments.

    • #3167942

      My Vista Adventures or UAC will hold the vendor hostage

      by jmgarvin ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      1) Download and burn. Normally, not a big deal, but it took forever to download and MS shutdown the bittorrent sites. Burning it wasn’t that big a deal, but it does take a DVD.

      2) Installation. Wow, what a friggin’ nightmare. First my key (that MS gave me no less) was invalid. Ok, great…whatever. I’ll just upgrade. WRONG. The upgrade explained that my copy of XP was not upgradable.

      So, after getting my key issue sorted out, I had to wait about 1 hour for it to install. I can do a full 7 gig Fedora Core 5 install on the same machine in about 45 minutes. What’s the deal with Vista?

      3) First boot was smooth until it hardlocks in the boot screen. A reboot later and it’s just fine.

      4) Logging in and farting around is pretty uneventful. I have to say that the GUI is a great way to waste screen real estate. I don’t like the buttons. I don’t like how they made the Sleep button the “shutdown” button. I don’t like how changing users is relegated to >>.

      5) UAC is a farggin’ nightmare. Users will NOT put up with this. Most of the time a user won’t understand why they have to accept or decline and they’ll just accept. So UAC has done nothing. How about actually FIXING your architecture MS.

      6) Speed and reliablity. Blech. It’s pretty top heavy and it locked and killed stuff (or wouldn’t run it at all) regularly. I felt like I was using Win95 when it first came out.

      My take is that Beta 2 is pretty much what the consumer will see. I see UAC as a way to hold vendors hostage. I don’t see any complelling reason to move from XP to Vista.

      So what’s the deal MS? Is this why everyone is jumping ship?

      • #3168556

        Which build are you using?

        by moira ·

        In reply to My Vista Adventures or UAC will hold the vendor hostage

        Can I just ask which build is being discussed here? At the moment I have 5384 installed and working but have 5456 ready to install.

        Anyone know if I can do a simple upgrade? Is the newer version significantly better?

        • #3168417

          Build 5384

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Which build are you using?

          I’d also like to know. Honestly from the beta I am less than impressed.

        • #3168390

          you are just confirming all i’ve said…

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Build 5384

          When we later find out that either our hardware or software will not work either in the realm of 64 bit or 32 bit as drivers for vista are incompatible.So in essence people will be forced to buy new systems & new hardware.Don’t think that i’m anti microsoft & or anty vista far from it.We just are going to be at the mercy at whatever comes our way.Like many we’l be the ones suffering!
          As i said i have done some core testing & i have found big compatibility problems & i know beta is beta but will they fix it in time for release.

        • #3167815

          Remember Windows2k

          by jcdyson ·

          In reply to you are just confirming all i’ve said…

          Win2K pushed the envelope on hardware and the first release of it saw that you had to get the drivers for you system before you installed the system subsequent releases you did not have to so obviously software drives hardware developement and vice versa. Again you are speaking as though you are new to the whole Industry.

        • #3167748

          you are right but

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Remember Windows2k

          weare moving from a 32 bit to 64 bit architecture
          there ara major complications as to availability of drivers & more to the point 64 bit software.this is a major hurdle.If it were as simle as installing vista then thats ok.there are huge problems to overcome.

      • #3168541

        By the time the OEM’s get it

        by mustangj369 ·

        In reply to My Vista Adventures or UAC will hold the vendor hostage

        and tailor it to their hardware with proper drivers, it should be quite stable. Upgrading will be another matter as you’re on your own as far as getting the right drivers and configuring the os to your setup goes. The older the hardware, the more difficult this will be.
        You said your copy of XP was not upgradeable. Is it an OEM version that you have?
        Commodity box builders like HP don’t recommend upgrading the os’s on their machines and may not make drivers available for and will not support such an upgrade. You’ll have to hope the ones built into Vista will work, especially if you have to do a clean install to load Vista in the first place.

      • #3168391

        you know you are right & cofirm what i was saying..

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to My Vista Adventures or UAC will hold the vendor hostage

        When we later find out that either our hardware or software will not work either in the realm of 64 bit or 32 bit as drivers for vista are incompatible.So in essence people will be forced to buy new systems & new hardware.Don’t think that i’m anti microsoft & or anty vista far from it.We just are going to be at the mercy at whatever comes our way.Like many we’l be the ones suffering!
        As i said i have done some core testing & i have found big compatibility problems & i know beta is beta but will they fix it in time for release.

    • #3168360

      This has gone on long enough.

      by mustangj369 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Actually, I’m amazed it’s gone on this long. You’ve made your position crystal clear, ad nauseum, ad infinitum, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
      Time to give it a rest and find something else to b*tch about. OK?

      • #3167746

        dear mustang it could go on…

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to This has gone on long enough.

        I thinkwe have createda monster i hope it goes to more than 400 responses which would be a record.I would probably make it to the tech republic top 100 list.
        It’s been good to get in on the discussion as long as we don’t take it seriously,we can all have our say.I’m pretty sure we can bitch about a lot of things.But vista has got on everyone’s goat!.i know people like to typify it to other releases & betas but this is a whole new ballgame.
        might i say please go ahead & contribute as much as you want youve got nothing to loose but get it off your chest! all the best

        • #3167725

          Top 100 of the most stupid comments in TR history!!!

          by jcdyson ·

          In reply to dear mustang it could go on…

          I am not normally one for burning people publicly but I quite frankly can’t stand this any further. Yes you might make the TR top 100 list but it will be for making the most stupid, ill-informed, unsubstantiated, non-factual comments of all time. I get the feeling we are in a high school chat room and there is one of us not realising that they have made some of the most impetulant remarks known to man. I again restate my previous opinion by saying you have missed the point that just about every person(not your own) on this thread has made and are not willing to see the wood for the trees. If you?re about creating records and making top 100 lists then I would suggest you?re in the wrong industry and definitely on the wrong forum. I would suggest you go back to your secondary school chat room and argue your little heart out because it is obvious that you are failing to see what my colleagues and I are saying. I further suggest you stop trying to play with the big boys until you learn to debate issues objectively. Your 15 mins of Fame (infamy) is up.

          Before you spit your dummy and say get off my thread, you troll, you ONLY STARTED it. Nothing says that you own a thread because you started it. The only thing you own is the opinion you have so poorly expressed.

          To my Esteemed Colleagues I feel it is time that we let this thread die a very timely death as it is clearly about inciting an argument for arguments sake. I say let him pull up stumps take his bat and ball and go home as it is clear he has no idea of playing with the bigger kids.

        • #3167641

          you are rude & feel you are self important

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Top 100 of the most stupid comments in TR history!!!

          I’d like to see when you have started a thread,you think you know everything & you don’t.You are just plain jealous of me that i’ve had so many responses.If you go i for one i’m not going to miss you or your rantings.By criticising me you feel that you have something over me that you are more gifted or more intelligent
          or you think yo know more.You know nothing,you have not proved anything.If you think i’m stupid why stay & rant & rave how much you know.I don’t feel that i need to speak with you just go someplace else!!!

        • #3167286

          guess what your wrong

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Top 100 of the most stupid comments in TR history!!!

          i have support from other people in this thread to confirm what i said was right you wrong.I win this time.take back your silly & stupid remarks.

        • #3167642

          This will be my final post on this “road kill” of a thread…

          by steve.marshall ·

          In reply to dear mustang it could go on…

          Although it’s been slightly amusing reading the completely misinformed, misdirected and child impressionism so wonderfully performed by our ignorant and socially inept gsaravin, I don’t wish to contribute any further to what is a total waste of my time. (none of the previous should be regarded as unsubstantiated insults, but observations based on the demonstrated ineptitude of the aforementioned)

          One of your key points (I use the term “points” loosely) is that the inherent drivers in Vista do not work. As someone who has 29 years (That is Earth years and not dog years right ???) you will know that MS issue advice to the hardware vendors and distribute the software maps for them to build drivers for the OS, the hardware vendors then issue their product listing on what they view as viable or potential projects in their line (There is a transparent but tight relationship between the key vendors that you are obviously unaware of, seems a little strange considering its aledgedly your JOB to know this). MS will produce basic compatability for current hardware whilst building the OS in beta purely as a cursory excericise, we are not testing hardware compatiability during Beta, we are testing funtionaility and content, nothing more.

          So, if you wish to find fault in Vista for not being able to support your ageing hardare blame the hardware manufacturer you nublet, not MS, sheesh, get a clue !

          As for you knowing more than me, you know NOTHING about me, I have not bragged about my career, but as you mention it, I would be the person that employs the person that employs the fecking idiot that employs you… I’ll say no more than that.

          This is no debate, it can only be seen as a PR excercise briefing the general TR board reading public that should you ever come across someone that potentially could be gsaravin IRL you should instantly turn around and walk the other direction, if for no other reason than to prevent yourself doing hard time for “justified” manslaughter (Although any judge with an amoeba sized common sence will be very very lenient).

          May this thread rest in pieces…

        • #3167639

          no one has asked you to stay on this thread

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to This will be my final post on this “road kill” of a thread…

          you have not offered anything tangible on this thread apart from ridiculing me ,you are not a friend of mine nor do i want to be friendly with you so why don’t you leave & go someplace else on another thread.You have proved that you know nothing
          about computers or systems you are an abject failure as far as i can see good ridance!!!

        • #3167571

          Amen to That!

          by researcher75 ·

          In reply to This will be my final post on this “road kill” of a thread…

          As I said above – AMEN!

        • #3167555

          i’ll say the same

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Amen to That!

          we have a bunch people who are sitting on the fence with unconvinced opinions when some of us know allready that we are going to get gloom from doom.
          amen to that!

      • #3167638

        if you don’t like it tune out

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to This has gone on long enough.

        Go someplace else as you have not really contributed much.If you have than please tell me what is regarding vista!!!
        Because you have nothing to contribute why waste time & space.If you have anything tangible lets have it otherwise you have nothing to say as you don’t know>i’ve been in it for nearly 30 years & i know more than you!

      • #3167285

        bitch bitch bitch

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to This has gone on long enough.

        bitch bitch bitchvistabitchvista

    • #3167455

      Support for your statement?

      by florida_rob ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I have tested the last 2 builds at our firm and found that it runs better, smoother, and faster than XP. I admit it doesn’t like some 6 year old PCs, but then again neither do I. What products have you tested it against?

      Also what basis do you have for stating that users are going to give up on Microsoft’s OS? Maybe the few IT-savvy geeks (like me) will move towards Linux or alternatives but the average Joe User is still running ME or XP and is very satisfied. There may be no real reason for Joe User to run to the store and buy this OS on the midnight of its release, but corporate users are already gearing up for it, and features such as Sidebar, SideShow, UAT, Defender, and Aero Glass themes may offer users benefits once they start seeing them. No basis for that statement other than the users I deal with read the Tech section of the WSJ and like to jump on new features that will make them more efficient and secure.

      If you don’t like MSFT, that’s fine. You’re entitled to your opinions- but before you predict the demise of a market-dominant product in the real world you need to offer a viable alternative– which currently doesn’t exist. Yes, I know Macs are better… Yes, I know Linux is more stable.. but until Macs break through the $600 price point they won’t take on any major market share, and until Linux looks and operates like Windows with full compatibility it won’t either. Criticize all you want, but the market has spoken and it likes Windows- and spare me the conspiracy theories. I have 2 words for you: Xerox and Polaroid. If the market didn’t like it, it wouldn’t be there. Fast food burgers are horrible for you and there ARE alternatives available, yet people still buy them by the millions– so they must be offering value to the public, much like Microsoft is doing. When the cost outweighs the benefits, and that day will likely come as it did for US Automakers, electronics manufacturers, etc. but it’s not here yet.

      Again, you are entitled to your opinions.. but they would hold much more water if backed up with facts. What products aren’t compatible? What drivers aren’t available (and that is more vendor’s faults than MSFT’s- it is THEY who create device drivers for their products)? What hardware/PCs did you test it on? I’ve run it on HP NC6000 (1.6 GHz Pentium M), 6230 (2.0 Pent. M), DeskPro (800 MHz P4), Motion Computing M1200 (P3 Mobile 933 MHz), Evo d530 (2.6 GHz P4), HP dc7600 (3.4 GHz P4), xw4300 (dual P4 3.4 GHz), ThinkPad T42 (PM 2.0), and a home-built box (AMD Duron 1.6 GHz). Memory ranged from 512 MB to 2 GB on most machines except the portables, which had 512 MB. HDD ranged from 20 GB (DeskPro) to 120 GB dual RAID on the xw. I had driver issues on the Motion, but it’s an older PC and I didn’t expect Gateway to have drivers available for the Beta. Ditto the direct-to-disc burn feature on the nc6230. Totally within the expectations for a beta release test.

      It requires more memory? So what? Are you still planning on running a box with less than 1GB? My daughter’s PC has that much and all she does is surf the internet and type reports for school (on OpenOffice, I might add). Now that memory is relatively cheap, please justify me why this matters.

      Is the source code bad? What parts are faulty? In what way? I don’t claim to have looked at the source, but what constitutes bad? One programmer’s schlock is genius to another.

      Is multitasking slow? For what applications? I’ve run Office 2007, 2003, various Sungard financial apps, home-grown stuff, and a photo editor. Done them all while running Sidebar with RSS feeds and had no performance issues. Is the slowness the fault of the application, the network, the user, the hardware, or the OS?

      I understand the animosity that exists in the world towards Microsoft- and some of it may be justified- but any well-written critique should include specific facts to support your thesis.

      • #3167251

        Support for your Statement

        by researcher75 ·

        In reply to Support for your statement?

        Interesting that you should comment about “6 year old machines” – this must of course refer to factory build like Dell etc; – I think what most of this discussion refers to is self-built and it is quite possible that factory builds will have had additions that would have entailed upgraded hard drives which would have possibly meant obtaining OEM OS and the like, so making the original machines self build. Then there would be the other additions that would mean different drivers, all this adds up to that maybe installing Vista on a clean drive is the best way forward, and I MEAN CLEAN!
        That is what I intend to do when I eventually get the disk that I paid for two weeks ago – try the beast to upgrade an XP installation on my new self-built machine first and then if it is not succesfull, clean the drive and start from scratch????!!!

        • #3167240

          theres nothing like a squeaky clean install

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Support for your Statement

          you know factory built ones are much sturdier than the ones that have been assembled in a shop.
          good luck with the clean install.i hope you have all the drivers!

    • #3167270

      still with XP

      by htos1 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I was thinking of forgoing vista and using XP64 in my new box that’s coming online soon.I don’t need bubblegum and balloons to do audio,video and file archiving.Now,don’t get me wrong,I don’t flame windows and Microsoft particularly,but XP64 will be all I need for a few more years.I guess I’ll live if I can’t install IE8 on XP64.

      • #3167238

        htos 1 you have a very valid point

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to still with XP

        precisely what i have been saying that people such as yourselves are not ready to ditch your old systems just yet.You probably spent thousands of dollars & now you don’t want to upgrade for upgrade sake.you are happy as you are.
        well done & good luck to you i’m in full agreement

    • #3167248

      Could you write something better than Microsoft Vista?

      by domingo a. trassens ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Microsoft is not the ?God? of the software. It frequently makes a lot of mistakes that the users help to fix. This is true! The Windows? father never creates the ?perfection? as a divine creature but there are a long distance between the ?perfection? and a ?crap?. Could you write something better than Vista and run with your ?creature? the millions of different PCs hungry for new software through the globe?

      • #3167239

        you have a good point

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Could you write something better than Microsoft Vista?

        you know we as consumers pay a lot of money be it to microsoft or whatever & often our hopes are dashed as the sum total of the pc hardware +software often fails & we have to send a message
        to developers of software or hardware that we are not happy!
        good on you Domingo all the best ,muchos gracias!

      • #3167218
        Avatar photo

        That’s not the point though is it?

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Could you write something better than Microsoft Vista?

        MS is in the business of writing Software & OS’s and as of the 22 May 06 they had devoted 1,000,000 man hours to the development of Vista and that’s only the 32 Bit Version. Those figures come directly from MS at the MS Road Show that I attended on 22 May 2006 in Brisbane AU so either the Marketing Department of MS is less than truthful or that have spent that much time in attempting to develop this new OS.

        Now MS has a group of people who specialise in writing OS’s and have performed this operation several times previously. The fact that they have spent so much time in developing the current Beta 2 Version of Vista and I’m only referring tho the 32 Bit Version here not all 14 different versions that will eventually hit the market just one which is the platform from which all the rest will spring eventually. As of the 22 May 06 they had invested 1,000,000 Man Hours of Development and at that late stage where still finding 5,000 problems per day. Now I’m not saying that I could write something that would make Windows redundant tomorrow but to me it seems that MS has spent a Hell of a Lot of Time and Effort to make a MESS!

        From my very limited play with the different versions of Vista currently available I can say it has excellent [b]Eye Candy[/b] but once you start to dig under the hood that all pails to insignificance as the OS itself leaves so much to be desired. First it copies itself to the HDD and then installs itself so the first 3 odd GIG of HDD Space is taken up by the install files. Now I can understand why this is done this way because it is so large that if they relied on the DVD to read the files from and then extract we wouldn’t be sitting around for an hour or there abouts it would be several hours waiting just to install the OS. Currently I run Virtual CD on my XP HDD’s and I do this because it allows me faster access to the data contained on those much used drives up to 100 times faster so I’m supposing that the same applies here to Vista by coping all the install files to the HDD it speeds up the install dramatically and I very much doubt that there will be many Home users willing to sit around for several hours waiting for Vista to install on a Pentium Extreme with 4 GIG of RAM on a 200 GIG SATA HDD and with a 256 MEG Video Card.

        On the machine that I’ve installed Vista it’s one of the faster ones and it still takes around 1 hour to fully install I don’t dare think how long that install would be if it was read all off the DVD that just doesn’t bear to think about. A SATA drive is at least 10 times faster than a IDE DVD Drive so you do the maths and work out just how long it would take to install Vista from a DVD ROM. And remember it’s only an OS with a few items built in it isn’t a complete Software Package. Even the SUSE 10 which comes on DVD doesn’t take that long to install on the same hardware and it’s a complete software package which Vista certainly isn’t.

        So instead of asking someone can they write something better as an excuse to accept the junk that MS is currently dishing out look at the actual thing and see what you think of it. I know if I was allowed half the resources that have been devoted to Vista so far I could come up with something better. Would it sell though Probably Not mainly because I wouldn’t have the advertising Budget that MS has to flog rubbish to the masses.

        Many years ago if in doubt buy IBM as no one ever got fired for buying IBM well today the same applies to MS if in doubt by MS as you’ll not run the risk of loosing your job by buying a MS product though you’ll most likely drive the Technicians who have to support it to [b]Mental Breakdowns[/b] but at least you’ll keep your job even if it drives so many completely over the edge. All you have to hope is that when the techs finally [b]Crack[/b] they don’t decide to take it out on the person who has exposed them to such rubbish if that was to happen they you really would have a [b]Big Problem![/b]

        Personally I’m planing on a [b]Very Long Hospital Stay[/b] when Vista gets released and starts to be taken up by the business community suffering from the newly discovered disease [b]Information Overload[/b] and when I get out and come back to work supporting business again you lot will have all the bugs worked out so I’ll not have to do it all myself [b]AGAIN![/b]

        There is no doubt that the current Beta release of Vista will improve before the product release but will it improve enough to make it usable by the masses?

        Col

        • #3210345

          Your right we are in an never ending cycle

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to That’s not the point though is it?

          I have noticed that it’s that dreaded cycle repeated again ,with vista being the worst.No one has the answers to all the questions,we have to wait & see.I reckon taking a holiday while it happens might help.I think that microsoft have developed vista with too many things that can go wrong.I for one wan’t a system with less spills & frills,a compact & lean system so that less chances things can go wrong.I think that they need to rethink what is it that consumers want less complex & more stable systems.
          I still have major reservations is it is a huge mess waiting to be unleashed on the poor consumer.

      • #3210352

        It’s called Linux

        by jmgarvin ·

        In reply to Could you write something better than Microsoft Vista?

        NT

        • #3210343

          Linux is good but unix is better

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to It’s called Linux

          I like Linux but would prefer Unix which is more
          stable than Linux.

    • #3167237

      hardware driver compatability

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I don’t know if anyone’s mentioned it but when i was testing vista beta.The lack of drivers & the availability of drivers at the present time.I tried using 32 bit ones & some did not work in the 64 bit area.you’ll find that some equipment is not detected at all & may be fiddly to install.

      • #3167215
        Avatar photo

        It was for that very reason that I didn’t

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to hardware driver compatability

        Waste much time with the 64 Bit version of Vista. Currently XP 64 Bit lacks the necessary drivers, most of the current generation of Hardware Sold lacks the necessary 64 Bit drivers.

        Right at this point in time while 64 Bit will eventually be the way to go we are not there yet with so very little of the available hardware & Software Combinations supporting 64 Bit computing.

        Personally I was happy if the 64 Bit build of Vista picked up the most commonly used parts of the computer that I installed it on so it worked with the M’Board, CPU, RAM, Sound Card & Video Card the items not picked up where not worth attempting to install drivers for as even if you could get the currently available 32 Bit drivers to install the software to drive the hardware will not install and work correctly.

        64 Bit is for latter on when the general Industry starts to embrace 64 Bit computing with Open Arms. Even the current 64 Bit Linux versions which are complete packages are not heavily used and while the hardware may be available it is not being fully utilised at this point in time. Even sales of the 64 Bit version of XP aren’t great so while currently it’s a novelty it isn’t anything earth shattering right at the moment. Even MS lacks 64 Bit Applications and once you over look Sharepoint there are no 64 Bit MS Applications currently available.

        The 64 Bit argument is for latter not now as there is currently so little available to consider using it on.

        Col

    • #3167236

      vista security problems

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Microsoft Vista is slated to have a new method of encryption in place call Bitlocker. This is a major problem for forensics to search files on employee devices. See the BBC article at:

      UK holds Microsoft security talks
      By Ollie Stone-Lee
      BBC News political reporter
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk_politics/4713018.stm

      • #3167214
        Avatar photo

        This is nothing new IBM has had it for a long time

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to vista security problems

        On their T 4X series of NB computers. It is easily cracked provided you retain the original M’Board. What will happen here is that any suspect will have their entire Computer seized and probed and it doesn’t rely on entering a Encryption Key as this is already built into the M’Board. If you follow IBM’s current trends on saving data when a M’Board needs replacing in one of the T4X series of NB’s you’ll see that they can copy the encryption key from the M’Board even when it barely works. It’s even possible to remove the chip and read the encryption key directly off the IC as the Encryption Key isn’t stored in Volatile Memory but is hard coded in the IC.

        So once you get over the Media Hype you can see that this is a Non-Issue.

        Col

        • #3210341

          your right on security

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to This is nothing new IBM has had it for a long time

          We have positive statements that security problems have been fully resolved only to see that people can circumvent security in a different way.Once we go through the media hype we can only have chuckle as the mind boggles of all the problems we have to face whether it be through hardware hacking or software hacking the system is not foolproof.

        • #3210329
          Avatar photo

          What system ever is?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to your right on security

          I can remember when [b]Sasser[/b] was hitting the place hard we had shut down all external connections into the network to prevent any infections so the Boss when he tried to log on after watching the morning news hit a brick wall so he decided from that single incident that the network was down and unworkable. 🙂

          What we had done was to lock down the internal network and block any VPN’s into the place till we could get our grubby little hands on the computers and scan them for problems. We didn’t want a Trusted Computer infecting the entire network. :^0

          It was really funny when the Boss hit the office he was ranting and raving and when he finally stopped to catch his breath I said “We don’t have any problems here but for basic security we have shut down any access points till we can clear all the NB’s that you people have to prevent any infection.” Of course with all his Porn Surfing over the weekend he had picked it up but it would have been our fault if he had of infected the system. 😀

          Col ]:)

      • #2533983

        you are right

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to vista security problems

        definitely correct

    • #3167235

      vista security problems

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Microsoft Vista is slated to have a new method of encryption in place call Bitlocker. This is a major problem for forensics to search files on employee devices. See the BBC article at:

      UK holds Microsoft security talks
      By Ollie Stone-Lee
      BBC News political reporter
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk_politics/4713018.stm

    • #3167234

      vista security problems

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Microsoft Vista is slated to have a new method of encryption in place call Bitlocker. This is a major problem for forensics to search files on employee devices. See the BBC article at:

      UK holds Microsoft security talks
      By Ollie Stone-Lee
      BBC News political reporter
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk_politics/4713018.stm

    • #3209953

      Vista BETA 2 is Crap!

      by researcher75 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Now that I have received the Vista CD and installed it over XP, I am inclined to agree with gsaravine@…. but as it is only a BETA build I don’t care to make such brash statements.

      It has faults does this BETA build, and I wonder WHY! – MS has given us the dubious entertainment of a three to four hour install period and an even longer period of trying to get Windows Explorer to do something exciting?

      At first when it eventually got to the desktop, most things were ok but then I discovered the machine didn’t like my graphics card (Brand New Sapphire Radeon – bought for the purpose)- I eventually obtained a Vista driver software set from ATI.

      I was then invited to download Office 2007 which didn’t function (It is tops with XP!) and then I was updated with several files for both Office 2007 and VISTA.

      From that point on, Windows Explorer was out of action and all that happened was a continual stream of error reports being generated and sent to MS. (Hope they can read them?)

      If this excellent idea is to get Mr Gates or his successor loads of dosh then someone in his employ has a lot of overtime to get paid for.

      I will now reformat the drive and try a clean install on a clean drive???

      Researcher …..

      • #3209880
        Avatar photo

        Try a clean install of Vista from the 32 Bit DVD

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Vista BETA 2 is Crap!

        Don’t bother with the 64 Bit version as you’ll be giving yourself a world of pain & suffering.

        MS was claiming that they where sending both versions when they posted them if you’ve only got the 64 Bit version I wouldn’t bother even attempting to install it as there is so little available for it and so many problems.

        I cheated though and started from blank Drives when I installed it as I didn’t want to hose a XP install and I certainly didn’t trust Vista to upgrade properly.

        I found that 2007 Office installed OK on the 32 Bit version of Vista but I can’t say that I’m overly impressed with it as it currently stands. Granted I prefer Word Perfect Office but even taking the step from Office 2003 to 2007 was a major headache and I never did find a way to open a Power Point Slide Show well at least in MS Office but Open Office 2 worked like a dream on Vista.

        Col

        • #3209820

          re upgradability

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Try a clean install of Vista from the 32 Bit DVD

          I asked microsoft re upgradability & they said you might experience some problems try a clean install first.I said that a few of the harddrives are not even recognised under vista & they said compatibility is not an issue with them but is with the manufacturer so try them.On the issue of graphic cards they said
          some graphic cards will work & others will not work at all.I did state that they should at least disclose what they have found on their website so that people will avoid buying cetain hardware that
          will not work with vista.

        • #3209727
          Avatar photo

          Personally I never trust any MS Upgrade Product

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to re upgradability

          I never use them and on the rare occasions when a customer has one I always do a clean install with the Upgrade CD and just pop in the old version of the product to allow the install to proceed.

          Anything less than a clean blank HDD is a waste of time and effort as far as I’m concerned.

          Col

        • #3209777

          Upgrade vs clean install

          by mustangj369 ·

          In reply to Try a clean install of Vista from the 32 Bit DVD

          I sent for the DVD’s and both 32 and 64 bit versions are in the package. You’re right about the 64 bit version. It just isn’t worth the trouble at this point.
          My first install was an upgrade over XP Pro SP2. It took 2:15 from start to finish. Only hardware issue was with the soundcard. Everything else worked well enough, just slower than I expected. Vista will tax most any system to it’s limits and then some. Then I did a clean install on the same machine and this took only about a hour, with the same results.
          Graphically speaking, Vista is a nice package, but I don’t really see anything in it compelling enough to make me want to upgrade from the known and stable XP installs I already have. Vista will eventually come my way when new pc’s are purchased in a year or two. This will be the way the vast majority of users get it.

        • #3209730
          Avatar photo

          If the Ultimate release is anything

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Upgrade vs clean install

          Like the Beta Release I’m personally planing a long hospital stay recovering from [b]Information Overload[/b] till all the bugs have been worked out. 😀

          Actually that will be till the Quacks consider me [b]Recovered[/b] and I’ll be able to stretch that one out a very long time. Sneaking away to access a NB on the web will help keep me in the place for a very long time so I’ll have some idea of how many problems you guys are having. :p

          Personally I’ve found very little that will actually run on Vista at the current time there isn’t even a AV product available as yet though Trend Micro should have their Beta available on the 16th. The really funny thing is that every Windows Program on the Open CD works perfectly on Vista but none of my bought programs will run properly if I can even get them to install. I’ve even resorted to games to try and the latest MS Games will not load but a 98 game will load and play but the graphics are crap. 🙂

          Anyway enjoy all your [b]Undocumented Features[/b] I’ll be putting up with Hospital Food which is almost as bad. :^0

          Col ]:)

        • #3210940

          More issues

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to If the Ultimate release is anything

          I’ve found that even on “modern” hardware, that Vista has issues.

          A) If you leave the machine on for long periods, it tends to hard lock. I’m not sure if it is a driver/hardware thing or a Vista thing.

          B) The driver support and the app support is pitiful, which means weird problems.

          C) It’s a sad commentary when OpenOffice works better than MS Office on an MS platform. (hint OO works better in Vista than MS Office)

          D) Vista is clunky even on new hardware. The LONG install doesn’t make me very happy either. Has anyone tried to image Vista?

          E) Flaky graphics. I sometimes get odd graphical artifacts floating around on my screen…SPIFFY.

          As it stands, this isn’t even a beta, but more of an alpha. It has a ton of bugs and it looks like vendor support is going to be iffy at best.

          On that note, has anyone seen a pricing structure yet? Why would anyone buy anything but Ultimate? How much is Ultimate.

          I’m going to guess $699, but hey, I’m an optimist

        • #3210917

          i’mnot going to say i told you so

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to More issues

          Im sorry i ever called it CRAP because it’s seems to be jinxed.I was hoping that it would come good but judging by what one of the developers of the source code said it would be lucky to come out given the problems with the source code.Also to read the glowing reports on the MSN website & they have a side dedicated to hardware
          compatibilty.The developer said you would mainly hope to use the 32 bit rather than the 64 bit at this moment.He made me aware of the huge insurmountable problems involved & the complexities involved.He doesn’t think that all the problems will be resolved thats the way it’s been in the past.All in all it’s a sorry tale.As Hal 6000 has said maybe it’s time to closeshop & go o/s on a long holiday & hope it will all go away.

        • #3210905

          re vista beta testing

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to More issues

          i have found that internet explorer 7 exhibits weird symptoms & doesn’t work properly with vista.Other things become apparent while you are searching.I have experienced more errors on internet explorer errors than ever before with any other system.I found that Mozilla or Fire fox refuses to function & experiences freezups & makes browsing difficult.Furthermore when you try to save files it can’t save them properly.
          Other problems are dynamic link libraries don’t seemto function properly with vista as well as
          exe files that normally work with one op system will
          not work with vista as it doesn’t recognise them.
          I have spoken to microsoft that they said things are being looked at but cannot garrantee that the final release will be so squeaky clean as other ops releases.So expect some weird surprises I guess that said i don’ think that people will be ready to ditch XP just yet.

        • #3208493

          um…gsaravin

          by palerider2 ·

          In reply to re vista beta testing

          …”I have spoken to microsoft that they said things are being looked at but cannot garrantee that the final release will be so squeaky clean as other ops releases.So expect some weird surprises I guess that said i don’ think that people will be ready to ditch XP just yet.”

          3 points about the above statement in your previous post:

          1- you’re an idiot!
          2- you’re an idiot!
          3- you’re an idiot!

          GOT IT???!!!

        • #3212029
          Avatar photo

          Retail or OEM Copies?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to More issues

          And remember that Ultimate is the second top version the Enterprise Edition is the only one that comes with Software Assurance. Well that’s what they where saying as of the 22 May 06 and I’m guessing that they have got a lot more Bug Reports since them.

          Col

        • #3212020

          Gah…what a mess

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Retail or OEM Copies?

          Ok, so here is my take (from what I can see)

          Home Basic/Premium – watered down and pretty useless. Will be put on Dells PCs and will be “cheap.”

          Business – Desktop for MS only shops. However, it’s unclear exactly what it is. I’m guessing a replacement for the XP Pro desktop.

          Enterprise – Desktop for hetergenous shops. Also seems to have some server functionality, but it is VERY unclear what exactly it does and doesn’t have.

          Ultimate – Everything under the sun, save for Software Assurance. Although, at this point, I’d say that is a GOOD thing. 😉

          I’m VERY confused about Starter (or whatever it is they are calling it). I’m guessing this is for emerging markets and cost effective solutions for non-profits and the like.

          I’d like some clarity from MS as to what exactly the different flavors are meant for. It seems to me that Ultimate will find its way to most peoples desktop because Home is crippled, Business is lacking in multi-media, and Enterprise seems server-like.

          So, is MS going to pony up with clear information, or do we have to wait until bloggers have at it?

        • #3211969
          Avatar photo

          Currently I don’t even think MS knows what is going to happen

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Retail or OEM Copies?

          While the Marketing side is in full swing the Technical Side seems to be dragging the chain quite a bit. The current Beta 2 Releases are the Ultimate form but this is how it was explained at the last MS Partners Meeting.

          [b]Home use 3 versions[/b]

          Vista Basic
          Vista Premium
          Vista Ultimate

          [b]Small to Medium Business 2 versions[/b]

          Vista Business which is the equivalent of XP Pro
          Vista Ultimate

          [b]Big Business Government Departments 2 versions[/b]

          Vista Business
          Vista Enterprise

          [b]This is supposed to be all 7 versions though I quite can not see all 7.[/b]

          The only way that this was explained is that Vista Basic is equivalent to XP Home, Vista Premium is equivalent to Media Centre, Vista Business is equivalent to XP Pro.

          The others where not mentioned where they fitted in and the 1 tech support guy there wasn’t talking as he was tooooooooooo busy keeping the slide shows & Mic’s working. :^0

          Then these are supposed to be all available in both 32 & 64 Bit Flavours though for the time being I don’t think that the 64 Bit ones will be much of an issue. :p

          Then 2 years after Vista is launched there is supposed to be a [b]Major Upgrade made Available[/b] we where told this would be in the form of a Service Pack like SP2 for XP. Then 2 years latter a new OS will be released on the bones of the old Vista basically it will most likely have a different name and be a development of the current Vista. This is MS projected next 10 years though when it’s supposed to start I’m not sure if that 2 year gap starts from the release of Vista Ultimate or the complete Vista range. 😡

          Col ]:)

      • #3209822

        you are having only preliminary problems

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Vista BETA 2 is Crap!

        What i have found to some extent vista will clean install from the 32 bit dvd .It will function to some extent but i have found compatibility problems as to working with certain hardrives will not allow installs of vista as well as certain motherboards,other software will not function.Installing software over software is a problem in some cases as vista is not backwards compatible.Also drivers availability is a issue.
        Also i have found that the video cards were running at a hotter temperature as well as strugling to keep to the high end scale.i know this is just beta but i have contacted several
        manufacturers & they have said that microsoft
        never even consulted with them about driver signing & to make matters worse they didn’t
        even consider making adjustments in the vista betas
        or the final release.I said what shall i do with this particular graphics card & they said “ditch it & buy another one”.On the issue of hard drives if you bought one of those 200 gig hardrives that
        won’t function properly microsoft is not interested
        in your predicament as they are involved in software not hardware malfunctioning.

        • #3206989

          Nonsense

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to you are having only preliminary problems

          Rather than ranting on about motherboards, hard drives, video cards, software, etc can you for once give us a concrete example.

          A brand, model number, etc.

          Until you provide evidence, other than “I told you so”, your arguments are meaningless. Give details or give it up.

      • #3209821

        Clean install definitely

        by jcdyson ·

        In reply to Vista BETA 2 is Crap!

        With Vista there is no point in upgrading from XP to vista it is the best to do a clean install because i do believe with that you will have no where near the problems with the application once you do this. The problem is vista has a different structure to what XP has and dont think that MS has done much with the upgrade function therefore it will have conflict after conflict until the release of the polished product. I recall the beta of 2k had similar problems with upgrade from 95/98. I definitely recommend a clean install with any beta release anyway esp if you have the install DVD.

    • #3212077

      microsoft is withdrawing product support

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      did you know that win 98 & win milenium will no longer be supported for updates.There are 50 million users out there.This is crazy.

      • #3212024

        98/ME Update withdrawal overdue.

        by jcdyson ·

        In reply to microsoft is withdrawing product support

        Of course they would be 98 is effectively 8 years old and is out of date. They withdrew support for Win 2K except for security updates last year which is definitely younger than 98/ME so why would they keep updating this old software when they are past it. There may well still be millions of users out there but it is time for it to die.

        Anyhow I would believe that this is in the wrong thread. This thread is infact about Vista is it not?

      • #3207075

        Good Grief!!

        by jerome.koch ·

        In reply to microsoft is withdrawing product support

        Win98 and ME may as well be DOS4 and 5.1. Win98 is a 16bit OS that cannot run anything developed before 2002. Why should MS waste its resources on a 8 year old OS – it might as well continue support with Win95 or 3.1.

        For those customers and buisinesses still using 98, spend a few bucks and upgrade.

        • #3206938
          Avatar photo

          Easy to say not always easy to do!

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Good Grief!!

          I have one [b]Mission Critical[/b] that was written for NT so the latest Windows version that it will run on is NT4. And before you start insisting that I upgrade this is a [b]Current Product[/b] still being sold and it is really [b]Mission Critical![/b] It’s a cute little program where the basic package starts about 80K and gets more expensive the more hardware that is required and I don’t mean Computer Hardware but Laser Sighting Hardware.

          The thing is used in adverse conditions that play havoc with computer hardware as it is a earthworks program that allows earthworks to be performed to within 1 cm of the design. So you have Laser Sighting equipment all around the construction sight and on all the machinery and it allows massive savings in everything connected with the job. Less fuel is used scraping the earth away, less trucking of the scraped earth is required and no Backfilling is required at all so it’s a very useful program. Actually I think that they give away the software and you are only paying for the sighting equipment and it’s always been that way.

          I’ve tried it on new versions of Windows and it just doesn’t work correctly if you can even get it to start. I’ve run it in tandem with a NT4 box on Y2K after spending a long time setting up Y2K to run this program and I noticed that there is a 6 inch error between the NT4 and Y2K displays. 6 inches is a lot of expensive backfilling so we never used the Y2K install. XP on the other hand is just a [b]No Go[/b] it will not even install let alone run so we are stuck with using NT4 boxes which are factored in as only expecting to last the life of the job nothing more than 6 months usage from a single box.

          Then there are Machine Tools that run on DOS will you want to be the one who insists that a company shuts down while a 20 foot + bed lathe is removed from the production floor and replaced with something new? That will also mean changing the positions of all the other machinery and network cables as well if everything goes without a hitch that’s 3 weeks of being shut. MS still sell DOS for these machines and I personally buy about 5 copies per month. There must be others here who use it as well because the head of marketing at MS AU has said that they sell around 50 copies of DOS per month and he can not see any reason for this to happen. Then you speak to the Legal Side and you get a different story. It was really funny to watch at a MS Partners Meeting the Marketing Guy saying one thing and then the Legal Team Leader saying something totally different and she was the next speaker.

          But in places like that we run 2 separate networks one based on XP Pro and then the DOS one that actually controls the work performed on the production floor. The main problem now is finding suitable hardware to run DOS on currently we have moved most of the machine controllers from Intel CPU’s & M’Boards to AMD Athlon 64 CPU’s and NVidia Chip Set M’Boards. That seems to work OK.

          Remember that not everyone works in an air conditioned office between 9 to 5.

          Col

    • #3212040

      you mean i’m not the only on who thinks it?

      by alexcoop ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      vista, which comes from a company KNOWN for it’s illegal & immoral business practices and famous for it’s deceptions and outright lies. and let us not forget their wonderful tech/customer support or the way they shaft (steal) people by the MILLIONS. and people are surprised.
      i’ve yet to find ANYTHING redeeming about vista, but i will buy it. why? i support microsucks products mainly because that’s what the market is. personally i’m switching to linux so i can get some real work done. and bill gates can $@%^&&*^ himself with a chainsaw.
      alex

      http://www.alexcooper.org

      • #3211368

        i fully agree that a lot of people will be put off

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to you mean i’m not the only on who thinks it?

        that they will make the switch.My company has allready switched to linux & we have virtually hopped off the proverbial microsucks Bus as we can see for what it is, a waste of peoples money.All i can say is whatever people decide on is i hope they are happy with it in the end.
        From what i hear & see nobody seems to know what the hell is going on & no one seems to be listening or caring
        as to what people actually want not what microsoft
        dishes up to them.

        • #3206909

          You’re wrong, VISTA is Wonderful!

          by the truth ·

          In reply to i fully agree that a lot of people will be put off

          Vista will displace Unix in the world. Long live Microsoft!

        • #3208618
          Avatar photo

          Well in that case will you please inform me how

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to You’re wrong, VISTA is Wonderful!

          I can install Corel Draw X3, Adobe Professional, Macromedia Dreamweaver at the very least on a clean install of Vista?

          Actually as there is no server version of Vista available yet I can not see how you can even suggest that Vista will displace Unix as currently we [b]Do Not Know[/b] just how scalable it will be. Currently MS doesn’t offer any OS for a 2,000 CPU Blade which is common for a mid range Blade and no OS available for a decent sized Server Farm.

          But I would dearly love to get Corel Draw and the other programs installed on my test rig.

          Col

        • #3199233

          I have just lost 2 databases with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well in that case will you please inform me how

          In regards to vista & unix the answer seems to be linux.It has to do with stability & reliability & also cost.
          I have just lost two data bases of data due to vista crashes & backup failed due to software incompatiblity.Also photoshop doesn’t even work!

        • #3166838
          Avatar photo

          Personally I think that MS has found

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to I have just lost 2 databases with vista

          Some more [b]Major Flaws[/b] in Vista and removed it from the Download site till they have them worked out.

          The 5472 version wasn’t there for long and they don’t seem to be rushing to get the thing pushed out for Beta Testing any time soon. Looks as if the Launch Date has been put back to Feb- March next year if this is the way that things are going. 😀

          Col

        • #3166705

          my sentiments exactly,HAL

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Personally I think that MS has found

          a big IF it comes out at all it would be the biggest
          operating system disaster ever unleashed on the gullible consumer.Like i said before i’m not impressed by what i’ve heard from MS insiders that the whole project has gotten too big & it’s out of hand & no one seems to know what the hell is going on.In regards to the 5472 i heard that they weren’t so keen to push it as there are huge technical problems
          involved.I would say that the whole project was headed for disaster from the start.The beta releases have huge problems & even ongoing source code problems.
          TA Mick

        • #3202032

          vista &unix are totally different platforms

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to You’re wrong, VISTA is Wonderful!

          unix is a better platform & is less prone to problems then windows

        • #3199490

          What is the importance to be the ?better platform? in the real world?

          by domingo a. trassens ·

          In reply to vista &unix are totally different platforms

          You say: “Unix is a better platform…” Okay, but despite all the merits of UNIX, the technology is not only servers and mainframes. Today, the desktop is very important part of the world of the technology. Is UNIX in this level? No!!! Till now, Windows is the only software platform running in different levels and environments from the bottom to the top. For this reason, its heir Vista will continue higher. Maybe, at future, Linux Desktop grows as the Vista’s alternative, but UNIX never will grow into the masses. It will continue in the glassed rooms as the jewels of my grandmother.

        • #3199335
          Avatar photo

          Or maybe

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to What is the importance to be the ?better platform? in the real world?

          Running all those [b]Thin Clients[/b] that are now becoming so cost effective so that PC’s can be moved off the desktop and replaced by what where once called [b]Dumb Terminals and are now called Thin Clients.[/b]

          Seems the more that things change the more that they stay the same.

          Col

        • #3199236

          Unix is better for stability

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What is the importance to be the ?better platform? in the real world?

          Ever since VIsta has been available as a beta release i have had nothing but crashes & problems.
          What i’m saying is whil’st unix is more stable
          windows is more prone to problems & it comes at a cost.
          You hit the nail on the head as you mentioned linux
          as it is a more stable system than windows & is as closer to unix than windows.
          All i’m saying is the problems with vista are huge & as compared to previous releases.
          In my organisation we have totally gone from windows to linux due to the stability problems.
          Also if MS comes up with the goods i for one will be the first to convert to windows.
          Aso think of the poor home user will they have
          $700 or more to spend on a vista vista o/s.
          I know beta is beta but i have just lost two data
          bases of data due to crashes with vista.Back up failed as the software is not compatible.
          My job entails evaluating systems & software for bad or worse without prejudice i’m not going to waste good hard earned money on something that will not work properly.!
          mick

      • #2490196

        have you had a go & played with vista??

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to you mean i’m not the only on who thinks it?

        I’m not overly pleased.It’s got it’s deficiencies.
        ta mick

    • #3207063

      Illiterates and computers …

      by therealpauper ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Read your review, and your responses to replies posted … Your obvious and moronic inability to grasp the facts behind Vista’s requirements, coupled with your lack of proper grammar and punctuation leads me to believe that President Clinton’s planned program to provide every inner city’s uneducated child a computer is back on track and succeeding. Not only have you learned to use a keyboard, but you manage to do so with your head driven firmly up your rectum.

      • #3207041

        AMEN!

        by lsrouse ·

        In reply to Illiterates and computers …

        What he said!

      • #3206933
        Avatar photo

        Just one thought here

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Illiterates and computers …

        You are going to look very silly if the person that you are replying to isn’t a citizen of the US or has English as a First Language, aren’t you?

        You need to remember that not everyone speaks English as a First Language and hardly anyone actually lives in the US when it comes to Forums like this as it is a [b]World Wide[/b] forum which anyone is welcome to join or at least that’s the way that TR wanted it to be.

        Personally I don’t know where this person lives but by their grammar I would hazard a guess that [b]English isn’t their First Language[/b] so your intended insult only makes you look stupid.

        Col

        • #3206906

          I’m stupid ?

          by therealpauper ·

          In reply to Just one thought here

          He’s posting in ENGLISH … they make spelling and grammer checking software for every language … so BITE ME … and STFU moron.

        • #3208616
          Avatar photo

          Perhaps you should try communicating

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to I’m stupid ?

          With Word in French and ask a French Person how correct it is.

          But when someone descends to calling names instead of putting forward a reasoned and well thought out discussion I think that speaks volumes about them. :p

          Col };)

        • #3206905

          And BTW …

          by therealpauper ·

          In reply to Just one thought here

          My response was not based soley on the reasons stated, but his faulty cognative processes in general (something you both have in common apparently).

          “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run
          by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it.” –Mark Twain

          You Col, obviously “…really mean it’.

        • #3208613
          Avatar photo

          BTW

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to And BTW …

          Look at this link and tell me what you see.

          http://tinyurl.com/zwjbt

          Then show me one single link to any place that I have said that anything MS is [b]Junk![/b]

          You will not find one but there are several questions that I have asked on this thread alone that no one has so far bothered or been able to answer.

          Col

        • #3138451

          Hmmmmm

          by therealpauper ·

          In reply to BTW

          You actually figured out how to look up my profile ! You have 10 times the intelligence I originally thought you had. Congratulations, that puts you into the double digits !!!!

        • #3138386
          Avatar photo

          Well as it’s only taken you

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Hmmmmm

          2 Months to make a response what’s that say about you? 😀

          Single digits or less I’d say although .0009 could be called 4 digest I suppose. :p

          Col :^0

    • #3207050

      TRYED IT 2ND ATTEMPT

      by cte71457 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I,m running VISTA with all system requirements if fact exceeding requirements this is a new system 1.5 GB memory 128 MB video card ASUS MB ATA HD 120 GB AMD XP 3000 FSB 333 HD running at ATA 133, VISTA took around 2 HRS to install I had McAfee Antivirus which interefered with installation and had to be removed I consider Myself as being a qualified OS user as I started dwelling into systems since 1978, VISTA has plenty of bugs, its not user frendly and appears to have bells and whistles that no other OS has had and has a very complicated user interface which could use a overhauling instead of using a single mouse click like XP some functions now require 5 mouse clicks for the results startup and shutdowns are excessive Ghraphics are running at around half the speed of XP, programs that worked with XP 50% will not run VISTA anyone wanting this new system had better wait until 2012 AD the vendors and OS may be in order by then!

      • #3202029

        precisely what iv’e been saying

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to TRYED IT 2ND ATTEMPT

        We have just lost 2 data bases in a gigantic hiccup
        using vista beta versions whilst doing tests to determine compatiblity.I heard just recently that not all the features will be ready for release as there are delays in release.

    • #3207044

      Nothing to write home about

      by calmes ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I’m on my second installation of beta 2 and nothing has made me go ahh! so far. Sluggish performance (2.8GHz P4, 2GBmem, 100GB SATA HDD), annoying security pop-ups, tried two AV programs (CA was a bust – TrendMicro seems OK), it’s not smart enough to know that the media center has already installed the media player, etc. Waiting for RC1 to see if my mood improves.

    • #3207042

      Hmmm…another one that just does not get it.

      by lsrouse ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      First off…Microsoft does not cater to l33t script kiddies running multiple linux boxes out of their homes. Boxes that still run on 486 chipsets and pentium pro’s. Vista is a cut off point separating the technology of the 90’s from what is about to come out in the 21st century. Vista is still in beta…beta means incomplete…it means if you download it and run into issues you report those issues…I have personally been in the HUGE lab environment where they do all of the debugging for Microsoft network operating systems…trus me…Microsoft knows what it is doing and the fact that you even have a beta version now means they are aware that there are issues and they are giveing you a beta to help them see what they cannot (a wise practice). If you are running Vista on any technology that is not current then you don’t get it….your right this product is NOT FOR YOU! Vista is going to be for companies that are pro-active in moving forward not back ward or stagnant. IT grows or it dies…that is it’s nature. Microsoft is one comapany that drives that growth…Vista is a catalyst for that driving force…you either grow or you die.

      • #3206950

        “Vista is a catalyst for that driving force…you either grow or you die.”

        by nighthawk808 ·

        In reply to Hmmm…another one that just does not get it.

        Or you switch to Linux. There’s a whole world out there that you don’t have a clue about.

      • #3206931
        Avatar photo

        …trus me…Microsoft knows what it is doing

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Hmmm…another one that just does not get it.

        Well that was good for a laugh I particularly liked the bit about MS Driving Technology when it’s actually holding it back.

        But since you claim to have a much better knowledge than me when it comes to all things MS can you answer a few questions for me [b]Please?[/b]

        When is MS going to bring out a decent suite of 64 Bit Applications?

        When is XP 64 Bit going to start to sell as a real OS instead of a [b]Cursory[/b] that it is?

        We have had 64 Bit CPU’s for a very long time now the hardware vendors consider them perfected and have moved on to 128 Bit design but it was only recently that MS came out with a 64 Bit OS if I remember correctly MS gave me a copy about 2 years ago and I’ve yet to find anything that will run on it properly and no it wasn’t a Beta but a Production Version that is now currently sold well listed for sale as I’m not sure that there are to many actually sold for real work.

        If your above statements where true why are we still using 32 Bit OS & Applications?

        Col

        • #3206893

          Answer is Simple

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to …trus me…Microsoft knows what it is doing

          If your above statements where true why are we still using 32 Bit OS & Applications?

          The vast majority of home and business users aren’t running a 64 bit systems. It’s pure supply and demand.

        • #3208608
          Avatar photo

          Well AMD has had 64 Bit CPU’s for

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Answer is Simple

          Well over 5 years now that are backward compatible with 32 Bit OS’s. Intel had a entire series of 64 Bit Only CPU’s and now has 64 Bit Enabled CPU’s that have been freely available for at the very least 2 years. When I bought one of the first 64 Bit AMD’s I was given a copy of the XP Pro 64 Bit OS and then a couple of years latter MS gave me a copy of their latest version of XP Pro 64.

          I have Hardware that can run both of these OS’s but not a single application that is optimised for 64 Bit code.

          I have on numerous times answered questions by people running 64 Bit versions of Windows in various forms telling them why their printers and the like [b]Will Not Work[/b] on that 64 Bit System that they are trying to make it work with.

          The simple fact of the matter is that the hardware makers have perfected 64 Bit CPU’s and have now moved to 128 and 256 Bit CPU’s one is in prototype and the other is still in design stage but not a single application to run on those 64 Bit CPU’s currently in use from MS. Most Linuxes have AMD optimised 64 Bit product available with not only the OS but all the apps working in 64 Bit Mode.

          But more importantly if MS is actually driving Technology what Happened to [b]Win FS?[/b] MS was talking about that File system since the NT days and it’s still to eventuate. It was supposed to be the [b]Core of Vista[/b] but we are seeing NTFS Partitions still.

          Col

        • #3208591

          You’re Still Missing the Point

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Well AMD has had 64 Bit CPU’s for

          So what that the 64 bit hardware is out there and so what that the 64 bit Win OS is out there.

          If only a small minority of the market owns these, why the heck would application developers write code for it?

          Sure, it is more common in open source. They don’t have to worry about profits.

          But as for the for profit world, the market share isn’t sufficient enough yet. Once more and more people own 64 bit hardware and 64 bit Win OS, you’ll see thousands upon thousands of applications out there.

          We just haven’t gotten to that point yet. Patience Danielson.

        • #3208561
          Avatar photo

          Rick I didn’t ask when the Entire Profit Driven world

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to You’re Still Missing the Point

          Would start offering product for 64 Bit OS but when would MS Start?

          Currently MS has several 64 Bit OS’s available which they will willing take your money for but they do not have a single product that runs on them currently. If MS is driving Technology shouldn’t they be one of the first to market with products?

          The current Beta Office 2007 is still a 32 Bit application with no current development as a 64 Bit option being available. However on the Server side they are going to start offering some 64 Bit application early next year things like Share Point & Exchange will both be 64 Bit as it allows MS much more room for things like Mail Boxes so there is a much higher Upper Limit of mail boxes for a 64 Bit Exchange Server that there is for a 32 Bit Exchange Server. That is the benefit that MS is pushing though there are certainly far more.

          Actually I do [b]Get It[/b] but I just Can not accept that MS is driving Technology in the way that some people here are claiming. That’s all. Do you see my point?

          Col

        • #3229680

          there is going to be stop to pc manufactring

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well AMD has had 64 Bit CPU’s for

          Now that we know tha MS is ditching vista most pc manufacturing is going to be curtailed as there won’t be a proper operating system especialy the much touted 64 bit system.In conversation with George Ou who asked me which betas have i tested in may he assured me that
          vista was working quite comfortably in the 64 architecture.I explained to him that it is the opposite & that there are major hitches to overcome.So now we know that vista is not able to function properly in the 32 bit architecture due to lack of drivers & other hardware problems.Next i discover straight from MS that they are having source code problems & ongoing problems complicate things further.MS was buying
          more time. I explained that on the surface it appeared that MS had tightened security problems but the opposite was the norm & so on & on.So
          the project has gone from the ridculous to the sublime.I pointed out that i had major reservations on vista coming out at all.Lo & behold i was right.A lot of people will now have to eat both crow & humble pie too!It got to the stage
          that even at the launch of the new Mac os they
          had a dig at how vista is a copy cat of mac os & a poor one at that.
          I have been totally vindicated.
          ta mick

        • #3229678

          you are going to laugh at this

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well AMD has had 64 Bit CPU’s for

          Now that we know that MS is ditching vista,did you all know that plans were a afoot that MS had plans for 128 bit right through to 728 bit operating systems the mind just boggles.I’m quite happy with 32 bit windows xp thankyou!
          Imagine that 728 bit systems probably in 1000 years i hate to think even about it,

          ta mick

        • #3229630
          Avatar photo

          Well as both AMD & Intel have 128 Bit CPU’s

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to you are going to laugh at this

          At the Prototype Stage and are currently working on 256 Bit CPU’s it’s only to be expected that the [b]Biggest OS Maker in the World[/b] will follow where the hardware is leading. Of course I very much doubt that they’ll manage to get it right unless they somehow rebadge a SCO Unix with MS Windows 64 Bit and give Gnome all the [b]Eye Candy[/b] that is associated with Windows. :^0

          Of course if MS tried this they would somehow manage to muck it up completely by rewriting the code so that the average user would constantly run as [b]Root.[/b] 😀

          To prevent others having access to the [b]Source Code[/b] they would have to substantially alter the SCO Unix to something completely different as any Linux would just be way to similar and the Enterprise Versions who offer a Better Support Service than MS does would have to be done away with because they would give MS a [b]Bad Name.[/b] So places like SUSE, Red Hat & Mirvinda would have to go but I’m not quite sure how MS would deal with Debian as there is no company behind it just a bunch of developers who have no direct ties to the project other than donating their time and effort the [b]Software Equivalents of Terrorists at least in M$ eyes.[/b] 😀

          Col

        • #3229622

          we seem to be hardware ready for the next couple of years

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well as both AMD & Intel have 128 Bit CPU’s

          If intel & amd can get ahead in the bit architecture
          why can’t someone as big as MS.Frankly if i were
          a developer i’d walk out cosidering the stress etc they are in.Clearly MS has shown they can’t even keep up with the next level let alone 128 bit.I cannot even begin to fathom what were going to encounter with 128 bit.Speaking with a few of the developers they are completely pissed off with MS &
          being a developer is not a easy task i’d like to be in.Imagine the source code needed to just finish off vista.It is just absolutely mind bogling the time spent on vista.
          Given MS track record they are simply ducking & weaving for cover & cant’t keep up with the pc manufacturers who are simply going to stop development.
          mick

        • #3229603

          High Expectations

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Well as both AMD & Intel have 128 Bit CPU’s

          I won’t hold my breath for the 128 bit nor the 256 bit hardware to come out anytime soon.

          First off, neither Intel nor AMD will release it anytime soon as they haven’t made enough money on the 64 bit versions to pay for the research and development…you act as if these things come free.

          Intel and AMD are a for-profit business too just like Microsoft.

          Second of all, for many years now hardware has been ahead of software so what is your point? A 1.0 Ghz processor is more than enough for the average, everyday user except for gamers, developers, etc.

          Which way do you want it? One of the things Linux users always talked about the most is that Linux will run fine on an old x486 and Windows won’t. Now, you ranting and raving about 256 bit PC’s. Geesh.

          Sometimes you get so far ahead of yourself, I don’t think you even realize what you are saying.

          Lastly, just about all makers of OS’s steal ideas from each other. That is the competitive market working.

          Few Linux users will admit it, but until the day comes that Linux looks like Windows, their market share will be limited.

          And to be fair, until the day comes that Windows has the security of Linux, they will be under constant assault.

          No one company or group has a patent on perfection. Every OS has its strenghts and every OS has its weaknesses.

          I would expect all companies and groups to steal ideas from each other.

        • #3229564

          rickk is correct

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well as both AMD & Intel have 128 Bit CPU’s

          i think we are above ourselves as we worry more about the hardware & software but we forget that it’s all about money in the end & whether the poor old consumer will buy it.I think we are too
          pre-occupied at present worrying about the uncetainties.I think it will be a wait & see whats around the corner.
          ta mick

        • #3229549
          Avatar photo

          For Profit :^0 :^0 :^0 :^0 :^0 :^0

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Well as both AMD & Intel have 128 Bit CPU’s

          That’s why AMD pours so much money into Ferrari, HP pours so much money into Williams and why Intel was the first to market with a 64 Bit CPU which they have since dropped like a hot potato as it wasn’t backward compatible like the AMD 64 was.

          As well as Profit there comes [b]Bragging Rights[/b] which both companies want more than the other as this sells their product. So Currently AMD is saying that we had the First True Multipurpose 64 Bit CPU and Intel is saying well you might have had the first 64 Bit CPU that was accepted by the consumer but we had the fastest that is currently available.

          I’ve been to both AMD & Intel meetings and the one sure thing that comes through is that they are creating their own markets and people are buying this stuff not so much because they need it but because they want it even if the software of choice doesn’t support their Current Generation Hardware.

          Once upon a time the catch cry from the Linux Brigade was we can use old hardware to do the same job now it’s changed quite a lot as they are saying 64 Bit we’ve had it as a fully working version for years what’s MS been doing all this time? Currently when it comes to 64 Bit Architecture and above Linux is leading the path by a long way and MS is constantly playing Catch up not very well. Just have a look at how long the Major Distro’s out there have had complete 64 Bit Packages available and granted while most are geared to the AMD 64 Architecture more and more are coming on line that support Intel’s EMT 64 Bit as well while MS is plodding along with it’s 64 Bit versions of XP Pro and 2003 that support piratically nothing in the way of hardware.

          Personally I’m getting sick & tired of telling people that their new beaut printer which they are attempting to connect to a 2003 64 Bit Enterprise Server will not work because there are no 64 Bit drivers for it. I really wouldn’t mind if they just accepted the truth of the matter but instead they throw abuse at me because I tell them the truth which they don’t want to hear.

          Lets face it MS is now holding back Technology not leading it. 😀

          Col

      • #2497389

        good advice for a system that’s a flop

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Hmmm…another one that just does not get it.

        you have to see it to beleive it.
        ta mick

    • #3207031

      Stop whining

      by ids ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Give me a break….When are you guys ever going to stop crying over Microsofts domination. They have a proven track record (exception with Millenum) that shows progress with each succesive OS…they listen to the industry and hit the nail on the head 9/10 times.

    • #3207012

      Vista

      by eiojal ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Half my programs such as Logitech Quickcam, motherboard support for ethernet to name a few will not work in Vista. And there is no future plan from these companies to issue Vista drivers as it’s ‘beta’.

      It cost me $15 to get Vista DVD which will eventually go into garbage.

    • #3206996

      Well guess what people

      by michael l hereid sr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I am a MS Beta Tester and I have beta tested Vista since July last year.
      1 I have a nVidia card that costs $75 with 256 DDR memory works well in both 32 and 64 systems
      2 the latest build installs in about 18 minutes
      3 The performance has improved dramatically
      4 Sure I think you will need to get full performance you will need at least 1 gig memory but at a cost of only $99 not bad
      5 Aero works with a video card that has only 64 meg memory but how many have a card that old anymore
      6 Sure there are still bugs but being only Beta 2 that is no issue
      7 I am right now using Vista on this pc as my only os

      • #3206929
        Avatar photo

        [i]the latest build installs in about 18 minutes[/i]

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Well guess what people

        How in Gods Name are you getting the latest version to install in 18 minutes?

        I’m supposing that you are running a upgrade from a previous version of Vista right?

        I’ve only got a limited budget to play with so I’m limited to a Pentium Extreme the Dual Core one with HTT on a 955 Chip Set M’Board with PCI Express 3 PCI X and two PCI slots. I’m skimping on both the video and RAM as I only am using a 256 MEG ATI Video PCI Express and 4 GIG of RAM. With that rig maybe the DVD will copy the files to the HDD and format it in 18 minutes but it then takes about another 40 minutes to complete the install as a clean install. I haven’t tried upgrading from XP though as the MS people recommended to perform a [b]Clean Install[/b] to get the best results.

        What Brand and Model of [b]Super Computer[/b] are you using to get installs that quick?

        Col

        • #3208611

          Super Computer-I wish

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to [i]the latest build installs in about 18 minutes[/i]

          It is a pc I built specifically for XP but works very good because I used hi-quality parts.
          MSI K8N NEO Platinum
          AMD Sempron X64 3300+
          2 512meg DDR Kingston PC3200
          WD1200JB SE 120 gig
          Maxtor Diamond10 S ATA 80gig
          MicroAdvantage DVD +- RW Dual-L
          Nvidia FX6200 256meg memory
          AverMedia Ultra TV 1500 MCE
          Ultra V-series 500watt PSU
          Ultra Media Reader
          Triple-Boot Windows XP Pro SP2/Vista Home Premium
          MS Optical Mouse(USB)
          Hitachi 19″ CRT
          Acer AL1717 17″ LCD
          If you read my profile You will see I’m even more limited as I’m living on Social Security.
          No, I do not work for MS but I get the latest as I have beta tested for MS since December of 1997. I like to see the latest tech even if I don’t get paid for it.
          As a tester I get the latest build they release to the testers and yes the install was only 18 minutes.

        • #3208605
          Avatar photo

          Michael how are you getting 18 minute installs?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Super Computer-I wish

          I’m not having a dig here I just really want to know. I’ve tried clean installs of Vista and the latest ones take about 1 hour maybe slightly less but somewhere around that time.

          I haven’t tried to run an Upgrade from XP Pro to Vista because it was suggested this wasn’t such a good idea but from what I’ve seen so far this Beta Copy id like Y2K it has very little Software support built in.

          I’ve been Beta Testing since the 95 Days and seen all the different Beta versions I most likely still have most of them here [i]UG what’s that say about me?[/i] 😀

          I’ve got several Test Rigs loaded with Vista and none of them will accept any commercial software that is currently available though things like Open Office install without a problem and work well. Actually every Windows Program on the Open CD work excellently on Vista but I’ve had a lot of trouble installing any new stuff except for Office 2007 Beta most likely Office 203 will install but I can’t see the point of installing 2 versions of the same thing besides there are DLL problems involved so I haven’t bothered.

          It’s really freaky the latest MS games will not install but every old 98 – 2000 style game installs and runs though the graphics leave a lot to be desired. Over all this looks very much like the Y2K Beta version in what can be installed on it maybe I should try some of the older software like Corel Draw 8 instead of X3 which is the newest version currently available.

          Granted I mainly use Intel CPU’s and Chip Set M’Boards but that’s because of the work that I do but I do have a 2800 AMD here running with 1 GIG of RAM and for its age it’s a fairly decent sort of unit about average for it’s age and defiantly on Par with the Intel alternative.

          I’ve got one of the original 64 Bit Athlon’s running here as well though I can’t for the life of me remember it’s speed but it flies along on a 64 Bit Version of Debian When I got it I was given a 64 Bit version of XP Pro and there was nothing that I could run with it hardware related anyway things like scanners and printers which are a [b]Must Have[/b] for me at least just didn’t work so I went to an OS that worked and allowed the hardware to work to its full potential.

          More importantly can I swap places with you? I tried to go into semi retirement about 8 years ago and that only lasted about 12 hours and I’ve now got 10 full time techs working for me. The SODS hated working for me when I was working Big Business but they followed me around between different places that I worked and then they all approached me for a job when I was trying to retire. My original idea was to work with small business a couple of days per week Max and then have time to play with my play toys which have been sadly mistreated while I was working full time. Now I’m working even longer have more responsibly and no free time to play. I would gladly trade it all for just a NB and 1 1973 Mercedes if I had to I may even consider giving up my Ducati but only at a pinch and when my wife wasn’t around. :0

          Actually it’s currently got to the stage where I’m hoping that one of the kid’s will have a baby so I can pack up the mobile home and go on a holiday for about 30 years just to get a break from the constant work. The youngest is now 30 and I feel that I need a break as I’ve never managed to have a holiday in my entire working life.I’m actually longing for the days when I used to work for a boss as I knew that I would only be working about 80 hours per week they where the [b]Good Old Days[/b] now I’m spending much more time working and getting less out of it.

          OK enough winging but I’m reading how so many people are getting this to work on Vista when I can’t get it to even load and I’m in constant contact with Tech Support here and am told that whatever I’m trying to load isn’t supposed to install.

          Perhaps I should just forget the entire thing and try an Upgrade from XP I can always clone a HDD and use that so I don’t trash a perfectly good load on the XP drive. In the past whenever I’ve tried doing this with a Beta version it’s always failed but maybe it’s worth a try now that I have the Beta of Trend’s AV program that is only good for about a month so I should really get stuck into doing some heavy duty testing instead of just having a play every now & then on a stand alone unit. Currently I have a 4 station LAN loaded with Vista that works quite nicely with the very limited software that actually works on it I suppose now that I’ve got the AV Program I can connect that sub group to a router and hide it from the rest of the LAN and get busy. Currently whenever I’ve been on the net with Vista I’ve picked up so many infections that I’m wondering if the Sandbox that IE is supposed to be in is actually working.

          You’ve got to be mad to Beta test and what worse is when you enjoy it then you know that you have real problems right? :^0

          Col

        • #3208604

          Well Hal

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Michael how are you getting 18 minute installs?

          It is a build 5472, which is the latest build released to beta testers.To tell the truth I was surprised my self when the install took only 18minutes. All previous builds took 1 hour or more. Oh I have not tried the 64 bit Vista yet-if this ~!@!@##$$%%^%^ hot weather eases up I’ll be adding another 80 gig hd and trying then. But the 32 bit installs that fast.
          On the being mad I think your right-since XP went rtm I belive I have re installed XP aproximately 500 times on my pc. But then I guess that is the cost of being a beta tester.

        • #3208559
          Avatar photo

          Michael I wouldn’t bother too much

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Well Hal

          With the 64 Bit version of Vista as there is very little hardware support available. You’ll most likely get most Video cards to work most Sound Blaster chip Sets to run but not the AC97 type as there is no native support for them and the makers don’t have 64 Bit drivers in most cases I can’t say in every case as there is no way possible that I could look at every maker but those that use the AC Chip Set Sound On Board don’t have any 64 Bit drivers available yet places like ASUS, Gigabyte, A Bit, MSI & Clevo anyway.

          There is very little USB support built in and things like scanners, most printers and Web Cams just don’t work. It’s interesting to have a play with but that’s all you’ll be doing so I personally wouldn’t make it a [b]High Priority[/b] thing to do if you have more pressing testing to do on the 32 Bit version.

          I always have a spare HDD around to work with when I’m doing any Beta testing it saves so much time and effort if the install crashes and takes out the Partition information on the drive. When I first installed both of the Beta Vista’s I did something that I normally would not consider I put both of them onto one HDD a 200 GIG SATA 2 which I split in half or nearly anyway the 32 Bit one went on first and then the 64 Bit one on the other partition. I got lucky as nothing went wrong and both installed perfectly other than requiring the SATA Drivers which was no big problem. Some of the other units loaded here have small 80 GIG IDE Drives with Vista on and they are much slower to load than the SATA drives it’s about the only time I’ve really noticed a major speed difference between SATA & IDE during the install.

          I’ll have to pull my finger out an get that Dual Xeon running and try it on that as well before I push it into service for myself. God it’s terrible to be [b]LAZY[/b] my wife commonly known as [b]She How Must Be Obeyed[/b] only had to wait 10 years for me to pull some cable through the house so that the main trunk leads where not lying on the floor. But I can get away with unsafe practises in my own home that I would never consider dong in a work environment. 😀

          I don’t know what made he madder the fact that all the stuff was always here and I just didn’t get the time to pull 5 cables or the fact that I kept taking the cable away and using it on jobs and then replacing it afterwards, But I did leave all the wall sockets & Mounting plates here well most of the time anyway I think I needed to grab a couple one time when the suppliers where out of stock but they where soon replaced. Now she’s pointing to a Token Ring cable that I really don’t know why I still have here but it may be useful one day. :^0

          Col

        • #3208533

          Well I have to try it anyway

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Michael I wouldn’t bother too much

          since in this pc I have a 120 gig hd-divided into 2 partions of equal size and a 80 gig divided the same way-plus a S ATA 80 I use for data storage. 1 will have XP Pro/Sp2(sp2 which by the way I beta tested) 2nd one will have Vista Basic(hoping it will be good enough for my granddaughter’s pc(which I built for them by the way)) 3rd Vista X64 after all that is part of beta testing. 🙂
          On my other pc with 120 gig hd I will have Vista Home premium- and also testing X64 on 🙂
          On networking when we lived in an apartment I had wires strung up near ceiling but now that we live in a house I have in the basement to the girls pc.
          My wife hates pc’s-she says I spend all my time on mine but then I watch/record tv shows on mine also dvd movies.
          My wife says I’m a packrat and I should get rid of all the junk I have in boxes of course it’s not junk if something is there to fix stuff she wants done. :O

        • #3208502
          Avatar photo

          I do much the same thing

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Michael I wouldn’t bother too much

          But I’m careful my wife likes Classic Mercedes so I keep buying them as [b]Presents[/b] for her well that’s my story anyway anytime I see one that I like I buy it and when she gives me that accusing look I say [b]But I bought it for you[/b] and look all unhappy after all I have my Ducati and it’s my play toy. Currently she’s not sure how to react she can’t complain that I’m buying her presents but she does object slightly to all the money I’m spending on her when I actually drive most of the cars.

          Although she caught on at a recent Auction that I wanted to go to they had 2 Gull Wing Door Mercedes up for sale which she loves the looks of which would have been perfectly OK for me to buy one till she rang up the place and found out that they has Several Vincent Motor Cycles there so I wasn’t allowed to go to that one though I didn’t know about the Vincent’s [b]Honest.[/b] 😀

          Currently we have a 4 car garage that you can not fit a car into as it’s full of parts for her Mercedes and it’s got my Ducati in there but really it doesn’t take up much space. I think that I currently have something like 16 working motors a lot more Auto trans all working and 2 manual gearboxes complete with the shift mechanism, clutch, pressure Plate and Flywheels but I’m only keeping them for her needs so that one of her cars isn’t off the road while I source parts for it. What with all the Doors and guards hanging up it’s almost impossible to move out there and I’m going to try to fit in a complete chassis for a coupe when the one that’s currently being painted returns. I took 2 cars up there one for parts or at the very least a template for parts and it’s being taken back to bare metal and total repainted inside & out by a mate who is a Real Panel Beater and not one of those people who just grabs a can of body filler. I’ve sen him start with a flat piece of metal and make an entire guard out of it with all the bends and creases in place perfectly. You couldn’t see the difference between one of his home made and the genuine units.

          Well I hope you enjoy playing with the 64 Bit version but as I said I wouldn’t be placing a high priority on it. 🙂

          Col

    • #3206988

      When will it end?

      by djs.vegas9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I’ve been using computers since 1981 when I bought a used Trash 80. Green screen, cassette I/O, big 48k interface, the whole nine yards. Got pretty good at NEWDOS.

      Few months later I got an Atari 400. Upgraded the keyboard. As an artist and pong addict I thought the Atari was WAY cooler!. Color graphics. Superior games…compare Joust on the Atari to anything that would run on the TRS. I remember ‘Snake’ and ‘Pong’ and a really crappy version of Space Invaders.

      But I loved the TRS-80 because I could (at last) correct my funky typing errors, edit text and SAVE stuff to cassette (and later 5 1/4″ floppies) and print endless copies on my little dot matrix printer that all looked exactly the same.

      Cool!

      And I’ll use that as a segue into my opinion about Windows 3.1 thru XP. With minor exceptions they’ve all been the same. Drastically flawed. Sure the GUI has gotten slicker but IMHO the major advances in computing hasn’t come from Microsoft but from the Hardware Manufacturers. Faster processors, increases memory, radical graphics cards, sound cards etc.

      It’s just too damn bad that all we have to get the stupid things to run boils down to a few incompatible choices.

      The government (at least one of the three branches) should have stepped in 25 years ago to prevent Gates from creating the most insidious monopoly the capitalist world has ever seen! They wouldn’t stand for ATT or Ma Bell running the phone lines, they promote and encourage healthy competition in all other areas of commerce and manufacturing…even allowing foriegn competition to take jobs away from our citizenery and now seem to be on the brink of granting amnesty to millions of illegals just to avoid confrontation and controversy and provide businesses with a cheap labor force that they don’t have to go overseas to find. They’ve allowed gas prices to soar while the oil companies reap billions in profits (even though that’s not technically a monopoly since there are a HANDFULL of oil companies).

      They strictly regulate the airwaves, pharmaceutical companies (sort of), major league sports, ground transportation, air travel AND the sorry-ass minimum wage all to the detriment of the public majority.

      They are traditionally short-sighted, self serving and remarkably arrogant, refusing to admit their errors. Vietnam, equal rights, the war in Iraq and Bill Gates! Well they’ve sort of admitted mistakes in Vietnam and equal rights but it usually takes at least 30 or 40 years to get around to that sort of thing. Using that timetable Gates will be long dead by the time they see fit to break the grasp of Microsoft on our wallets.

      They really don’t mind though as long as Gates and Microsoft keep paying HUGE taxes. Wouldn’t you love to be Gates accountant or ‘tax-guy’! Bet he pulls in some coin!

      But my tirade against the Gov’t aside, my major problem is with Gates, Microsoft and their products.

      Have they ever marketed anything that just plain WORKS???

      Nope, and they don’t have to. We’re stuck! The hardware manufacturers are as guilty as the Gov’t because the lazy sacks let Gates slide one by ’em.

      A sorry state of affairs.

      Windows has always been crap, and always will be because the honchos at Microsoft can devote all their attention to bloated code, bells and whistles and trying to develope ways to undermine third party companies that possess superior abilities in producing graphics, audio production, CD and DVD writing, word processing and every aspect of computing that an OPERATING SYSTEM shouldn’t control.

      It’s a messianic complex.

      And now they’ve decided that you can’t buy their ill conceived, over-priced product and actually own it! Windows, apparently, is just like beer…you can only rent it for awhile!

      Proprietary software is a SCAM. Almost every other corporation in the area of audio and video electronics, home entertainment and software developement has at least made an effort to provide SOME kind of compatibility with their competitors products or create what they would hope to become an industry standard. The cream rises to the top. Cassettes vs. 8 tracks, beta vs. VHS, vinyl vs CD’s, digital vs analog. The public is not completely dense! But there has to be a choice!

      Enough of the rant. Gates has a messanic complex. Deservedly so.

      Everything he makes DIES!

      • #3206926
        Avatar photo

        Just one observation here

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to When will it end?

        In Bureaucratic circles it’s the [b]S H I T that Rises to the Top not the Cream.[/b] 🙂

        Col

        • #3208580

          Right you are HAL

          by djs.vegas9 ·

          In reply to Just one observation here

          Made my day my friend! Unfortunately, jaded and cynical as I am, I still try to preserve a shred of idealism.

          I don’t think that very many participants in this discussion realize the part that politics plays in this whole brouhaha (and I get to use that term so infrequently). And I’m referring to the ‘crap’ coming out of Washington (D.C.) AND the corporate bureaucratic ‘crap’ coming from Microsoft.

          Microsoft is not unlike the big oil companies and the role they play in ‘training’ the public to accept the increases in gas prices. A year ago if I could find gas for under $2.50 a gallon I thought “How Cheap!” Now if I see it for under $3.00 I consider it a bargain.

          A new Windows OS…larger and probably more expensive than the last, with more restrictions and limitations regarding its use placed on the consumer AND other software and hardware developers. How many times will folks have to pay for this product?

          I’m an artist and a musician. If I sell a painting to someone I don’t expect to get paid again if they hang it in a different room or give it OR a reproduction of it to a friend. If the reproduction is a nice clean one and still has my signature on it they can ‘give’ it to a hundred friends. It’s flattering! It promotes me and my talents.

          As a musician I have some insight and opinions regarding the whole Metallica/Napster thing too. Those clowns in Metallica (who’ve already gotten stinking rich off of legit album sales) objected to the and distribution of their tunes by Napster. How many cassette copies of other artists songs do you think passed through their hands while they were learning to ‘play’??? Not to mention the fact that they’re a stone-cold Led Zepplin ‘wannabe’. Did Jimmy Page jump into their shit for ‘stealing his licks’?

          Final word on Metallica : “Originality is the art of concealing your source”!

          My thoughts on Microsoft? “Smoke and Mirrors”, “Tap Dancing and Bullshit” and “Dog and Pony Show” leap to mind. Those also work for the U.S.Gov’t on SO many levels!

          As far as this thread? “Flogging a dead horse”.

          Peace Out Ya’ll

      • #3206908

        Well said

        by hectorj102 ·

        In reply to When will it end?

        “Gates has a messanic complex. Deservedly so. Everything he makes DIES!”

        Kudos for the best analysis I’ve ever heard to explain how MS operates. It made my morning!

        • #3208578

          Thanks

          by djs.vegas9 ·

          In reply to Well said

          Thanks Hector. Your obviously a person of intellect!

          And thanks for not mentioning the mispelling of ‘messianic’…it was a typo, honest!

        • #3222975

          too true

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Thanks

          a lot of people’s expectations have been dashed as time tells that vista is not really cracked up what it should be.The system is proving more unstable by the day.
          With a lot of people thinking why has ms bothered to relese 2 systems.Perhaps to please all camps old & new.But the big but fails to deliver on many fronts.!
          ta mick

        • #3222862

          Not TRUE

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to too true

          My expectations have improved actually as Vista has been very stable on my pc. In fact Vista X64 is running 24/7 on my computer with no stability problems, this is with only RC2(installed 1 week after I got the ISO).
          Where’s your proof that people’s expectations has been dashed-as usual you post with no proof.
          Mike

        • #3222770

          the proof is when you get off your behind & start testing

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Not TRUE

          vista & experience the problems first hand.
          You got to break it down & test the software.
          You will see the problems first hand.You will see that unless the drivers or the software has been certified then expect a let down.Any old sissy can install vista.The proof of the cake is in the eating.
          So far we are experiencing problems as older software will crash & not run properly.New software also crashes too.
          We have proved that the kernel is not as stable as ms would like us to beleive.So start testing & you will see.Vista is just a show pony that doesn’t perform properly.
          & no you’re wrong
          & mick is right

        • #3139613

          I have and I am still testing Vista SInce July of 2005-your still Wrong

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to the proof is when you get off your behind & start testing

          You have also been qouting the Gartner Group-did you see where Vista is now going RTM, they admitted they were WRONG.
          By the way have you looked at this http://www.winsupersite.com
          As far as what versions I will buy-it will be first Vista Ultimate X32
          second Vista Home Premium X32
          and maybe if softare developers develop more 64 bit applications inabout a year or 2 , Vista X64.
          Plus by that time MS will have just about finished getting more 32 bit working in Vista X64.
          OH by the way-even RC’s have debug code in it so RTM will have that removed and they will have tweaked Vista for more performance.
          Your still WRONG.
          Mike

        • #3139532

          no youre wrong as i have done in depth level testing

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to the proof is when you get off your behind & start testing

          with various software right to the kernel & other ground work investigative software.This simply proves that vista has a lot to be desired.you say you do testing
          what testing you keep saying that you prefer this or that what is it you do.I’m pissed off big time when a perfectly good program functions under xp & not under vista.
          Perhaps the design & compatibility is the
          problem people like ms don’t give a damn if your software does not function not due to the software but to the operating system itself.When i really see vista operating as it should i’ll take my hat off.
          But abot testing my testing is rigourous
          & i could spend a whole day pinpointing where in the operating system you have bugs or faults.I have spoken to ms & they don’t give a damn.
          so start testing & prove to yourself what a huge pile of crap it is.
          ta mick

        • #3139440

          could it be, perhaps…

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to Not TRUE

          location dependent?
          In that I can say the M$ OS’s that a person is exposed to does vary from region to region. The Vista that is so far available for any testing here in Europe is NOT what you will find in the US (& perhaps Canada).
          You claim to find Vista good where you are, but it isn’t even the same OS as available in other places. Sorry, but I’m going to have to break it to you, IT doesn’t work that way. No company’s going to invest the amount needed to field this just because it works in Iowa. Data and the needed software to support it MUST be able to be transportable around the Globe. (and safely too.!.)
          With the M$ XP OS that has been possible. (although not painless) With various Open Sourse OS models that is possible.
          With Vista? It hasn’t been seen.

    • #3206984

      I.E. Crap

      by barry-n7zzf ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I am only one person with a single opinion but I do like security in software but (VIEW) english for VISTA does not have it. The software is not friendly to even the Admin. If it does crash and the back up system does not work try to lets say go to DOS and do a little snip & cut well the files are not what you expect so I will bet you that Microsoft will sell you more software to fix the other software !!!

      Enough Sniveling I DO NOT LIKE ANY SOFTWARE THAT TELLS ME WHAT I WILL DO ON MY OWN MACHINE.

    • #3206902

      It is BETA ! What did you expect?

      by feral ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Vista is still in BETA testing, what did you expect?
      An all singing, all dancing bear?
      Pull your head in and think about it, read the documentation, anyone who has an ounce of common sense is aware that a beta package is going to be buggy and slow among other things.
      BETA software does not represent accurately what you can expect from the final product, though in the past I have suspected that MS does send BETA standard software to manufacturing simply because it has been very buggy, Windwos 98C is a fine example.
      You make all these statements such as “It has security holes more than you can poke a stick at” yet do not substantiate this claim with any evidence.
      I would expect it to be quite unstable in its present form as well.
      As for it being a waste of money, what do you care you did not pay for the BETA version anyway, did you?

      • #3208603

        Security holes

        by jmgarvin ·

        In reply to It is BETA ! What did you expect?

        Do you not read security forums? Vista is a security mess…totally broken from the network stack to UAC.

        • #3208532

          And did you not read

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Security holes

          It is still beta not RC1 or RC2.

        • #3208518

          *sigh* It doesn’t matter…

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to And did you not read

          A) It’s feature locked at this point
          B) Most of what you see in the Beta cannot be changed significantly

        • #3208468

          Most security holes indicate

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to And did you not read

          a fundamental architectural error, ie (for example) , not ones you are going to sort out by January.
          Yes they can put a bit of sticking plaster over it and say look solved, then some clever git comes along and slides under the plaster, or even better through those little holes that let the wound breathe.

          I don’t agree with where the intiator of this discussion comes from, but windows is funamantally unsound from a security point of view and will take a lot more work to sort out.

          That means stop concentrating on spangly new buttons and start on what code the button executes, not as exciting commercially I’ll admit, but there’s no getting away from it, if you have to compete of course.

        • #3208531

          And did you not read

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Security holes

          It is still beta not RC1 or RC2 or RTM.

        • #2497396

          As predicted vista launch was a complete joke!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to And did you not read

          Vista’s “wow” gets put on hold
          We’re still puzzled why Bill Gates passed on the geek capital of the world for the launch of Windows Vista and opted for an event in New York instead. As a reward Silicon Valley has responded to Microsoft’s biggest software launch ever… by completely ignoring it.

          Microsoft chose Time Square in New York for the official unveiling, but in San Francisco it settled for a basement bound CompUSA computer store in the downtown area. The shop opened its doors at 10pm for a special event featuring San Francisco 49ers quarterback Alex Smith. For nerds with jobs, the store opened early this morning at 7am with a special performance by local radio personality Joe Rock.

          The nightly opening brought out a small crowd, which reportedly didn’t buy more than a dozen of Vista boxes/systems (it went for discounted printers and memory instead). The morning event meanwhile can be described only as a Complete Failure.

          We showed up bright and early, hoping to witness a stampede for this revolutionary software, or at least some excited Microsoft fans eagerly waiting to get a copy of the first new Windows operating system in more than five years.

          Store shelves were stocked to the rim. Demo machines were finely tuned to show off the next-gen operating system and the staff was ready to pitch their wares. But not a customer in sight.

          Maybe it was because many customers were hesitant to migrate to a new and largely unproven Windows version that in many cases requires costly graphic card updates. Or perhaps is a 7am release event just another demonstration of Microsoft’s continued misunderstanding of its customers.

          Microsoft marketeers resort to Starbucks, as Windows Vista failed to provide any eye-opening experiences this Tuesday morning.
          Perhaps someone like michael should have been there & mingled with the crowd to add to the excitement.
          What a complete failure once again predicted by me months ago & rejected by dopes like michael hereid snr.(now ostracised) however never to come back on this thread again. He has proved what a complete fool & a simpleton he is a BIG DOPE to boot !

          ta mick

        • #2497395

          serious fatal flaws in vista system

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to As predicted vista launch was a complete joke!

          Last week, the media went schizophrenic over the Windows Vista speech recognition ?loophole? which allowed anyone with a microphone to have full access over your computer. Granted, you must also be partially-deaf, turned your speaker volume to full, carefully place your microphone next to the speakers, turn on speech recognition and train your speech profile as if you were someone else. It might sound incredibly challenging to get this exploit working properly, but the media assures this exploit is a ?fatal flaw?, so obviously Microsoft is to blame and Vista gets a big red ?Fail? on security.

          This week, two top Swedish security experts only to be named ?Long? and ?Zheng?, to hide their identity from Microsoft, exposes many more ?fatal? security flaws inside the newborn operating system, Windows Vista. Here are the two most dangerous exploits you should be concerned about.

          The first exploit is a bug inside the keyboard and mouse subsystem which enables the targeted system to be hijacked and maliciously delete files, folders, music, torrents and other important sounding stuff without the user?s authorization or control.

          Details of how such an exploit works are sketchy, but leaked documents reveal the keyboard and mouse APIs offers unprecedented amount of control over an operating system, allowing anyone and everyone to have full access to your computer with or without your authorization. This exploit allows anyone ranging from younger siblings to gang leaders who could use brute force, such as a punch or tickle, to gain access to your keyboard and mouse cursors and perform malicious activities such as browsing The Inquirer or deleting vital fraudulent financial documents.

          A second exploit highlights a serious flaw inside the popular Windows-platform development tool, Visual Studio. An undocumented feature inside this software is said to enable the ability for malicious users to compile and execute unsigned and potentially damaging source code. If users somehow come across malicious source code and decide to copy, paste, compile and execute within Visual Studio, the resulting application could change wallpapers, block access to YouTube, increase the volume and other serious irreversible damages to the computer system.

          Nobody knows exactly how or why Microsoft has designed Visual Studio to include such a dangerous and exploitable feature, but several self-proclaimed security experts has voiced their anger to Microsoft for such questions actions. ?Putting lives at risk like cars on the road? says one expert, ?cheese sandwiches are really good, but this is horrible like a tomato sandwich? insists another – drawing a connection between operating systems and lunch snacks.

          Whilst both exploits are said to affect the entire industry of operating systems, ?Long? and ?Zheng? insists that only Windows is affected due to its massive user-base and pretty wallpapers. Both security experts warn if users do not switch to another operating system, Apple and the Free Software Foundation will be really upset.

          Microsoft officials gave me a weird look and did not wish to comment at the time of writing.

          Next week, keep an eye out for the exclusive report on why Solitaire is a fire hazard. How the end-game fireworks might burn down your operating system. Not to be missed by every innocent Solitaire player.
          Last, there may well be some security flaw in Visual Studio. I did point these problems months ago,well vista is a complete joke isn’t it.
          ta mick

        • #3199228

          you are so right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Security holes

          In my reply to george ou i mentioned security problems with vista & he said how wonderfull vista is.I said straight from the beginning that i fear there would be severe security problems with vista.In my contact with various people with MS.They said to me that vista is more complex than before & they can’t guarrantee security.Security comes at a price!
          mick

      • #3214269

        I expected it to work, that’s all

        by moira ·

        In reply to It is BETA ! What did you expect?

        I’m really starting to have some sympathy with the OP now. Vista is RUBBISH! OK, I’m just in a bad mood with it, because I decided to try the latest build and now I have a system which won’t work after 3 days because I can’t activate it (compared to my original beta2 which MS happily activated for me). The Biostar fan control utility won’t install, so if I did want to use it I have to put up with the fans running at 100% all the time which is not only noisy but wastes energy too.

        I can’t honestly see anything better in this latest build. Why produce another copy if it doesn’t significantly improve on the last one?

        • #3214254

          I have seen this happen many times

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to I expected it to work, that’s all

          In the last year-where one build works but the next not. It is also the reason I dual-boot my pc’s. Plus for me 5472 is better in most ways than the previous one.
          You might try the xp driver it may work and won’t hurt to try.

        • #3212957

          Thanks!

          by moira ·

          In reply to I have seen this happen many times

          Thanks – in fact I tried the mobo disk and downloaded drivers from Biostar’s website for XP (there aren’t any specific Vista ones to obtain), without success. But you made me feel better just knowing this is a common problem.

          At the end of the day, if I can’t activate it, I’ll probably go back to the copy I had originally which MS were happy to give away activation copies for. I assumed this would be the same …. but no. There’s no getting away from it …. some of the comments might be a bit OTT but Vista is annoying!

        • #3212873

          Oh one thing

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Thanks!

          If network is onboard then try the chipset designers website. I do know for that nvideo nforce chipset has vista beta drivers. Maybe VIA or ati has beta drivers available also.

        • #3212747
          Avatar photo

          Have you noticed that any Beta of Vista

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Oh one thing

          Has disappeared from the MS Web Site?

          I logged in yesterday and while Office 07 is available Vista is listed as [b]No Longer Available.[/b]

          Col

        • #3212741

          I had read that Beta 2 would

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Have you noticed that any Beta of Vista

          only be available for a certain amout of downloads. Office is also set to be pulled from what I have read.
          But I bet Vista when they release RC1, will be available, hopefully by that time some of the issues and/or bugs that I and others reported will be fixed.

        • #3214961

          Hope my original copy will be OK

          by moira ·

          In reply to Have you noticed that any Beta of Vista

          Since it looks like I’m going to have to go back to the first beta copy that you could legitimately download from MS, I hope I don’t have any problems reactivating it 🙁

        • #3199250

          i’m not surprised

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Have you noticed that any Beta of Vista

          judging by what’s been happening with ms delays on vista i don’t think that it will be ready till next year.There are major delays & comlications.As i’ve stated that to all intents & purposes vista is a spent force as far as operating systems go.A mere copycat of mac os.Not
          offering anything tangible for their money.I for one will not be recommending a change for vista,

        • #2516302

          the ostrich head in the sand person approach

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Oh one thing

          apart from installing vista you have not done any testing.A buggerall testing go no go way of testing!

    • #3208520

      Buy Vista asap

      by kiltie ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Then look around for a machine to run it on
      Cost you some money, but W.T.H, isn’t it worth it?

      Todays new Vista comes with lots of eye candy, and the much improved WGA that will tell you it is not genuine and refuse to let you run it.
      (however it recommends you buy a new copy)

      sigh

      NO WAY, I am not going anywhere near Vista

      • #3208501
        Avatar photo

        If MS sticks to their projected release dates

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Buy Vista asap

        In November I’m going into Hospital suffering from [b]Information Overload[/b] to be cured while you lot work out the bugs and find all the workarounds for Vista. I really don’t want to go through another new MS Product again on [b]Mission Critical Systems.[/b]

        Actually it’s a real disease and if I keep sneaking out to play with my NB I’ll be there for a very long time so when I finally get out the majority of the problems should be known and workarounds in place and all I’ll have to do is look crazy not to be asked to do any work on Vista. I’ll quite happily play with XP, Any Windows Server any program that runs on any of that stuff any Nix Distro well anything but Vista in [b]Mission Critical Areas.[/b]

        I’m getting way to old to be running around putting out fires as they start to keep things running when those problems shouldn’t be arising.

        Col

        • #3208491

          Anyone tried 5472?

          by moira ·

          In reply to If MS sticks to their projected release dates

          Has anyone tried the new build yet? I plan on doing a fresh install anyway, just to give the new build a go. I recently had to go back to a restore on the PC currently running Vista on a spare HDD, and I lost the boot menu giving Vista as a second option.

          Irritatingly, I can’t get it back by adding a line in the boot.ini file, thanks to MS and their new bcedit.exe so another install is the only option (other than physically unplugging the SATA drive).

        • #3208487

          Yes In fact this is what I’m running right now

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Anyone tried 5472?

          Things start up faster but there are still performance issues-but it is a interm release.
          But it is good enough that I’m in it nearly 100% of the time.

        • #3208467

          Excellent

          by moira ·

          In reply to Yes In fact this is what I’m running right now

          I’ll get it installed as soon as possible then and give it a go!

        • #3199239

          harddrive problems

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Yes In fact this is what I’m running right now

          dear mick,
          I’ll have to agree with you on many respects.
          I’ve had nothing but problems with a couple of seagate drives they will not allow installations of vista.I have contacted seagate & they said they are aware & are modifying their software accordingly.I’ve had trouble using photoshop
          as it will totally not work with vista.
          There are numerous software i have tried vista does not recognise the exe files.I’ve had problems with dynamic link libraries not working
          or failing to install.I have also lost two databases of data as they crashed,backup sofware does not work with vista.I suppose speed
          & a few cosmetic changes is all that it has going for it.

          yours mick

        • #3199242

          I dont think they will release just yet

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to If MS sticks to their projected release dates

          hey col there are too many complications just yet.
          I have spoken to a number of companies & they said that vista drivers for new equipment will be delayed well beyond next year even later.So i’m not holding my breath on vista.I’ve also spoken to insiders in MS & they said to me what i’ve been
          saying that they are still grapling with source
          code & that could be till the cows come home.
          Another problem is they are working on the development of the vista kernel to stop viruses attacking it.There are other things associated
          with the whole vista project that it has major complications.He said to me it will be a wonder how the whole thing will work out in the end.He said to me if you like being dazzled by vista & it’s features then you will like it as he said there aren’t any reasons for change because of changes’sake.
          I said to him that vista is more or less a copycat of the mac os system & people have grown to hate the transparency feature they know that allready!

        • #3277140

          Vista is certainly peculiar ….

          by moira ·

          In reply to I dont think they will release just yet

          I installed the latest beta and discovered it was going to need activating within 3 days, which I couldn’t do.

          Resigned to going back to the earlier beta, I logged on to it and got the expected message that Windows couldn’t activate. It then proceeded to load as normal, download and install some Windows updates and run everything perfectly (except system fan control which Biostar just don’t seem to have vista drivers for yet).

          Avast AV updated itself as well – basically everything still works, which is a bit strange. I’ll never spend much time in it while I can’t set system fan control though, but I don’t want to install it on this PC because it only has onboard graphics.

          I guess I’ll be using XP for a while yet. I agree about the stability of linux, if it wasn’t for having to use Windows for softwear reasons, I’d be happy to spend the majority of my time using something like Ubuntu.

        • #3166694

          my sentiments exactly

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Vista is certainly peculiar ….

          Theres a lot to be said on the function of drivers you made a good point that under vista using existing drivers will produce weired results like hardware crashes.Also i have noticed current drivers
          don’t allow laptops to switch off & they still keep working in their bags.Maybe even catch fire.I also noticed whils’t testing different graphic cards they can get exceptionally hot under vista.I can vouch that i have come up with similar problems when testing the vista Beta releases.
          The other thing i would like to add is a lot of the technical people that have spoken so highly of
          vista in their reviews have changed their mind now as it is not ready to be released.
          The other thing is the main reason why i have this view of vista as crap is that i have gone through the various testing problems plus i have contacts
          in the industry.

          ta mick

        • #3229566

          Try smart fan

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Vista is certainly peculiar ….

          It works on my motherboard and Vista(crrent build)
          Mike

    • #3199222

      Vista is Satan Incarnate.

      by 2shane ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Windows Longdong umm no make that Vista; yeah Vista is Satan Incarnate., upgrade to Win 3.11.

      • #3277163

        good point!

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Vista is Satan Incarnate.

        perhaps everyone needs to go back to square one maybe even windows 2.1 i still have the two diskettes to go!
        mick

    • #3166536

      i was right!

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      all those people who said i don’t know what i’m talking about arenow totally wrong & who attacked me personally will eat mums humble pie.
      I have just found out from insiders from MS that the
      VISTA project may have to be either ditched or postponed indefinitely due to huge insurmountable problems.So all you technical people you know who i mean who wrote really nice things about vista & made huge promises when in fact it was a HUGE GIGANTIC FLOP will eat humble crow!
      ta MIck

      • #3229681

        Are you wrong

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to i was right!

        Vista has not been ditched or postponed. I do have multi-contacts at MS and they say you don’t know what yur talking about.
        Mike

        PS I have 10 years of contacts at MS.

        • #3229675

          my sources are reliable

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Are you wrong

          Now that we know that MS is ditching vista,did you all know that plans were a afoot that MS had plans for 128 bit right through to 728 bit operating systems the mind just boggles.I’m quite happy with 32 bit windows xp thankyou!
          Imagine that 728 bit systems probably in 1000 years i hate to think even about it,
          ta mick

        • #3229629
          Avatar photo

          Well as of May 22- 06 MS was saying

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Are you wrong

          That the Vista Bets 2 will be released some time within the next 3 weeks which it has and since been withdrawn from Beta Testers, but far more importantly.

          Vista represents 1,000,000 Man Hours of development and that they are still finding 5,000 problems in the Kernel per day. Vista Ultimate was slated for product Release sometime in November 06 but that now seems to have been put back to some time in 07 at the very least and currently MS has stopped sending out Beta Testers Newsletters to all of those signed up as Beta Testers but are continuing to accept problems as people who are testing it report them.

          Somehow by the way that information from MS has completely dried up over the last couple of weeks I would tend to agree that the launch has been placed back again and with more limited functions being incorporated into the OS. If everything was going smoothly at MS with Vista it must be getting very close to Finial Release Version by now as it’s supposed to be shipping in a little over 3 months so they have to get the Master Copy to the DVD Makers and press the DVDs package them and have them dispatched World Wide by November so the finial Release Version should only be days away 14 at the absolute tops as any longer than that MS wouldn’t be able to get stock to the shops in time for the November Launch not to mention the Big PC Makers like Dell, HP, Gateway and their ilk.

          At the very least the 32 Bit Version has been put back and the 64 Bit Version placed even further back in it’s projected release time because it doesn’t work properly.

          But MS has a Problem here as the new Sharepoint will only run on a 64 Bit Platform what is going to be available to run it on 2003 64 Bit which is already suffering from a lack of available drivers?

          Col

        • #3229624

          precisely my point

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well as of May 22- 06 MS was saying

          What is it with these free invites to launches,freebies for
          technical writers they come out praising vista & singing it’s praises.I come out telling the truth
          & i get shot down in flames.I said exactly what you are saying & that vista in it’s current form of development & delays etc as a product is not going to last.Judging from the contacts at MS i have unofficially asked & they said vista is ready for the S-crap
          heap.MS has allready pulled the rug from the beta testers & said screw you were not ready.To top it all of if ever they release vista to the consumers are going to stay away.Vista is completely dead & buried as far i’m concerned.Also from speaking to quite a number of beta testers they told me in no uncertain terms they are pissed off with MS & the way they treat them like complete fools.
          I agree with you that the only hope vista had in the credibility stakes was to get it all finalised
          within a certain period & certainly release it before christmas to maximise sales.
          I simply don’t like their chances of a release in
          january as it has taken too long & i don’t like their chances.
          ta Mick

        • #3229620

          HAL If I may ask

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Well as of May 22- 06 MS was saying

          Are you calling the people who downloaded Vista Beta 2(build 5384-Preview Release), Beta Testers?? If so they are not Offical MS Beta Testers.
          Most of the REAL Beta Testers have been downloading and using Vista since July of last year. They have, also since Vista Beta 2 was released to the public, downloaded and have/are using 2 differant builds since that time.
          They are also in constant communication with MS via private newsgroup.
          Mike

        • #3229547
          Avatar photo

          And just how did the general public

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to HAL If I may ask

          Get access to any form of Vista?

          They had to register with MS to get access to the product and allow themselves to be called Bets Testers.

          Besides the Forums the newsletters have completely dried up that are coming from MS. I used to be getting them about twice a week now I haven’t seen one for ages a little over 1 month. And while the Vista Forums are hosted by MS they are not actually supported by MS have you noticed much MS input to these forums recently?

          Do you remember the time that MS would send you the Beta Versions Free? I do now they are expecting you to pay for the Post & Shipping and then put in your time to tell what’s wrong with the product. If MS expects you to pay for their Beta products even if it’s only Postage & Packing they should be willing to pay for the feedback that they are getting after all this is only befitting MS and no one else when it comes to money. Personally from the way that MS is heading I’m seriously beginning to think that I’ll drop out of the Beta Testing program that I’ve been in since it began and just confine my play time to writing Linux Applications & improving the code base that is being used. At least that way I’m not spending my money for no reason and then have MS claim to have done it all when they release a new product.

          Michael if you like being a MS stodge you’re welcome but I’m rapidly tiring of it and am currently wondering why I’m a member of the MS Certified Partners Team and more importantly why I pay for so much stuff that is next to useless to me. One day I might even use something from the Action Pack that I religiously pay for each year but personally I find that I get better value for money from Volume License product and the contents of the Action Pack make excellent Drink Coasters.

          Col

        • #3229535

          Well I do not pay for any downloads

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to And just how did the general public

          of Vista Betas and I do not get them from Microsoft dot com- I get them from a non-public website and server. I pay no money getting any beta I have or am in. When ever there has been a cd/dvd they send out -I pay no money for it-MS does.
          I can tell you this-watch the MS website after September 4th-you may see RC1 Preview then.
          Tell you what also- goto http://connect.microsoft.com you may find something there. Also every once in a while go there-you may find something you may want to volunteer for. 😉
          Also I have never worked nor probably never will work for MS. I have beta tested for MS since December of 1997. On some of the betas I have even started with the Alpha builds-again paying no money.
          If I ever get a scanner I will scan a few of the 75 cd’s I have recieved from MS to you.
          And by the way one of the things I beta tested was SP1/SP2 for Windows XP. Plus a few of the rollup’s for same.
          Mike

          PS When the public gets a Preview of a beta OS-they are just previewing the beta-if they report problems to MS so much the better for us all.

        • #3229520
          Avatar photo

          Never seen the place. :^0 :^0 :D :D

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Well I do not pay for any downloads

          Actually I was in there yesterday downloading a copy of ISA to have a play with on a new system that I’m building for a company who are insisting that they don’t need ISA. 😀

          I’m betting that after 120 day time trial they will have a different attitude.

          Currently MS is talking about charging people for Office and with the last round of Vista Releases if you chose to get the DVD you paid for the shipping which is something new that MS has never had previously. I’ve been doing testing since the prior to the 98 days if not earlier it’s really too long to remember back and I have a heap of Beta CD’s as well as the [b]Time Bombs[/b] that MS hand out as release versions to wet the appetite with. At the 2003 ES launch they insisted on giving me another set of something like 15 CD’s for 2003ES and all the associated software that comes with it. It didn’t matter that I already had a copy they where just throwing them away like they where going out of fashion.

          Previously MS would send you the CD’s and give you the option to download so you have it now instead of waiting a couple of weeks about 4 mostly and in those days they allowed you to download and they sent you a copy as well. Besides the Time Bombs that MS hand out I have heaps of the Pre Beta & Beta copies of different MS Software as well. Does this page look familiar?

          http://tinyurl.com/sx4wj

          I generally don’t post links to closed sites as it confuses too many people but this particular page is a very useful starting point to get what you need and is my Default Tech-net Page.

          [b]Rick[/b] you can join up and get the [b]Good Oil[/b] on everything MS or at the very least MS view on it. I don’t know how they do it now but they used to require you to have an active E-Mail address and they would send you out an e-mail with the activation code your password so you could access the site. Since I’ve been a member of this prior to Hot-mail I’m not quite sure how things are done today at one stage they where asking you to create a Hot Mail Account but I think that you have a choice now of either using one of your existing e-mail account or a Hot-mail account. 🙂

          Col

        • #3229384

          thats very good michael

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well I do not pay for any downloads

          after booting off a cd when i was clean installing vista beta 2 on a 80 gig hdd western digital drive i had an error come up”file setupdd Sys could not be loaded”
          I think the harddrive is ruined any way out of this ?? I defintely think that’s the end of the drive.
          ta mick

        • #3229602

          November?

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Well as of May 22- 06 MS was saying

          Why do you keep saying November?

          Have I missed something or do you live under a rock?

          Microsoft has already come out (a long time ago) and said that it won’t be released until after the 1st of the year (2007).

        • #3229600

          1st of the year for the consumer edition

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to November?

          That is you will be able to go out and buy a copy at your local retailer. Here is the time line for you.
          1 Before end of October RTM(release to manufacturing)
          2 November/December release to corperations
          3 then january release so you can buy one.
          Mike

        • #3229486

          Well Hal

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Well as of May 22- 06 MS was saying

          I don’t have Technet as I could never afford it. I am just a Home user that when MS needed some new Beta Testers to test a Home user of Windows 95-they want some who had 95 and 3.1 to see how Windows 98 Beta 3(i still remember some of the painful experiance of that) did on upgrading same. At the time I had 2 computers one of which had 3.1 on it and the other 95. I got lucky and was accepted and have Beta Tested ever since.
          The only windows I did not test was 2K.
          With vista I am lucky in that I can test all versions of the os from Vista Home Basic to Vista Ultimate. :p The only one I don’t is the Business version as I’m not in business and don’t know what business’s need.
          Mike

        • #3229471
          Avatar photo

          Michael it really amazes me just how few

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Well Hal

          MS Partners get involved in Beta Testing they want to sell the product but know [b]Bugger All[/b] about it. Actually I got a funny one yesterday I was asked again to register for Tech Net but this time it came up as the UK Tech Net not the US or AU so I’m not overly sure what’s going on. It was defiantly a MS Site and all the details where correct but why MS is breaking up Tech Net so much is a little beyond me. Last year we only had to re-register once and where connected directly to the Local Country and the US Tech Net sites now it seems that we need to register on every Tech Net Site. I’ve just got another [b]Registration Reminder[/b] from MS in one of the routine newsletters so I’m not overly sure what’s happening that’s now 3 in 3 days.

          From MS there are several different versions of Vista Basic which is equivalent to XP Home, Premium which is the equivalent of XP Media Centre and Ultimate which is sort of something like XP Pro but there are 2 more the Business & Enterprise versions and this is where things get a bit funny it’s only with the Enterprise Version that you can have Software Assurance and you can get Volume License with Ultimate, Business and Enterprise. MS licensing is a Nightmare at best and until a lot more information becomes available I really don’t know what’s what in the Vista Lineup and then you have to remember that all of these will be coming in both 32 & 64 Bit Versions and somewhere in this is supposed to be a Server Version as well but as yet we haven’t seen hide nor hare of that one but it’s supposed to be running the new 64 Bit only Exchange which allows more Mail Boxes and much more room for stored E-Mail but this needs to run on a Server Application so there is a problem there with the lack of 64 Bit drivers that are currently available.

          I don’t currently know what MS is doing along these lines either as they have stopped sending Notices out as to how things are progressing. But I’m still thinking that the proposed November Launch date is more than a bit optimistic on MS behalf. 🙂

          Col

        • #3229373

          question for you or anyone that knows

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Michael it really amazes me just how few

          while booting from a cd vista 2 & clean isntall
          on a western digital hdd 80 gig drive i had an error “file setup sys could not be loaded”
          “the error code 4”
          what do you think i can’t get beyond this.Is the drive ruined???
          ta mick

        • #3229791
          Avatar photo

          There are a couple of possibilities

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to question for you or anyone that knows

          But I think you mean when Booting from a DVD not CD as Vista doesn’t come on a CD.

          I generally don’t use WD Drives as I haven’t found them overly reliable but you could try flashing he Firmware on the WD Drive or making a copy of the Vista DVD as the original may be damaged.

          It also wouldn’t hurt using a wiping program that writes zero’s to every sector of the drive as well.

          Col

        • #3229711

          gsarine that error code is not for

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to question for you or anyone that knows

          Vista. You say you have tested all the builds for Vista – how about listing some of the builds you tested?? Also how about listing the Motherboard/cpu you are testing on??
          Mike

      • #3209040

        This is where I think you owe a bunch an apology

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to i was right!

        Tech testers and some technet testers have recieved an interm build of Vista plus in the next 2 weeks they will be releasing RC1. So I still think your wrong.
        Mike

    • #3229646

      VISTA IS A DUD

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      vista is a DUD !
      Recent release of vista has proven to a lot of people that it is a complete waste of time.VISTA=DUD!
      MS have pretented to show by using terms like vista ready & packing features that people don’t realy need & using catch words like “killer product” with complete abandon when in fact it has been a complete DUD!
      There are no real benefits attached.Compared to xp it is much slower.Heaps of people have tried the os & have gone back to XP just as i had predicted!
      Microsoft also has attempted to cut
      Support Time for Some Vista queries…
      Vista will go the way of Windows ME and I think Microsoft knows it that is why they have allready announced a … Gee, do ya THINK MS knows Vista is a dud? …
      When compared, test results actually show vista to be outperformed by xp.

      ta mick

      • #2538099

        come on guys let’s have your comments on vista

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to VISTA IS A DUD

        don’t take my word for it lets have your comments.

        • #2538098

          vista comments would be appreciated

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to come on guys let’s have your comments on vista

          What ? come on all you tecchies there share your views on vista!

        • #2538095

          as predicted by me more vista woes

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista comments would be appreciated

          Microsoft Windows Vista started shipping back in January of this year. In December of 2006, only about 47 percent of those online were aware of Vista’s existence. Then came Microsoft’s marketing machine and according to a recent Harris poll, 87 percent of those online say they are aware of Windows Vista. But some are aware of Vista for the wrong reasons.

          Some are finding relatively few problems with Vista while others are voicing a great many concerns. One of which is that their current software and hardware are not working with Windows Vista though they have been listed as “compatible”. Many software products that compete with Microsoft software seem to be having the most issues. Roxio and iTunes are good examples. Some anti-virus software are facing conflicts with Vista protection systems as well.

          Yet many more are concerned that they are unable to use some of the hardware such as their Palm PDA synchronization software and hardware, but even worse are the printer issues. Many HP printers for example have no updated Vista drivers available, and the note on their website states that the drivers in Vista are the most up-to-date available. However the drivers in Vista, though they may offer some usability, do not allow the full functionality of the printers. For example, you cannot open the printer properties to change any of the print settings such as draft or normal print. You also cannot use the 2-sided printing without the full software package, and the XP version is not compatible with Vista.

          Gamers seem to be having the most problems with Vista. Some have reported playing an online game called MapleStory only to find that it is not compatible with Vista. But incompatibility is only part of the issue as some have reported that the game actually conflicted so badly with Vista that it caused the Vista to shut down many of its functions and think that the user is using a non-genuine version of Vista. One blogger related that this happened to him with a new computer with Vista installed on it. He inquired of Microsoft who said that he was on his own as it was his responsibility to make certain of the software compatibility with the operating system. Others have related of problems playing games such as EA Game’s Battlefield series. The game runs alright but then after a couple of minutes in an online game, Punkbuster kicks the player due to an OS incompatibility.

          Microsoft has reported great sales of this grand new operating system, and likely there are more stories of success than there are of failure. More problems will be reported than successes – this is just the nature of the beast. But if this many users are having so much trouble, it begs the question, “did Microsoft release Vista too soon?” Was it really a finished product? And is it possible that Microsoft spent too much time on the anti-piracy of Vista and not enough time on the features of the operating system like the speed or its ability to fight virus’? You know, the stuff that the user really wants.

          One last point that needs to be addressed is the limitations of installation of Vista. When a user upgraded an XP system too many times and reinstalled Windows XP, ofter they would not be able to complete the install because of too many changes to the system. The user would simply call Microsoft who would say that the system was changed enough to really require another copy of XP, but then they would issue a new CD key that would work for a few more upgrades. But how many times does a user reinstall their operating system due to a virus or an upgrade?

          Gamers seem to be constantly upgrading their systems because there is always something new with more power coming out, and with the limitations placed on Windows Vista, these gamers may be required to buy a new copy of their operating system. How many do you think will instead turn to pirated copies of the program instead of buying that which they have already bought?

          Ultimately, we are seeing many people stick with their Windows XP operating systems. They are refined and run smoothly without glitches. No one wants to intentionally put glitches on their system. For this reason, most people who know of Windows Vista – for bad or for good – will likely wait until all of the bugs have been ironed out before they purchase a Vista upgrade. We don’t think Microsoft is intentionally shooting themselves in the foot over these Windows Vista issues, but a little more compassionate customer service and a little less arrogance might help smooth over these problems. And maybe focusing on what the customer wants rather than how they can protect their market share and avoid piracy will get them a little closer to making their customers happy and have more positive comments on those Internet blogs rather than all of the negative ones.
          the problem guys rests with ms & vista is a dud Dudes!

        • #2538094

          more tales of woe vista rippoff ! class action called

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to as predicted by me more vista woes

          NATIONAL

          Lawsuit alleges Microsoft misled on Windows Vista

          A Washington woman who bought a computer in November 2006 marked as ?Vista Capable? and later discovered it?s capable of running only the most basic version of Microsoft?s new operating system, has sued the company for unfair and deceptive marketing.

          Dianne Kelley, represented by Seattle law firm Gordon Murray Tilden, filed a lawsuit Thursday, alleging ?Microsoft engaged in bait and switch _ assuring consumers they were purchasing `Vista Capable? machines when, in fact, they could obtain only a stripped-down operating system lacking the functionality and features that Microsoft advertised as `Vista.??

          The suit seeks class-action status.

          A Microsoft attorney defended the marketing practices in an interview Tuesday, noting that the ?Vista Capable? logo was one part of an ?unprecedented effort? by the company to distribute information about the operating system?s features and hardware requirements.

          ?Our goal is to give (customers) as much information as possible down to the precise technical specifications that they need? to operate the various versions of Vista, said Linda Norman, associate general counsel in Microsoft?s litigation group.

          In March 2006, Microsoft began a program that allowed computer makers whose machines met certain specifications to label them as ?Vista Capable.? The required specs included at least 512 megabytes of memory and a DirectX 9 graphics processor. But PCs bearing the ?Capable? logo ?cannot run, or run poorly, with Vista Home Premium, the least expensive version of Vista that includes Vista?s heavily marketed and most popular features,? Kelley?s complaint said.

          Microsoft later introduced a ?Premium Ready? designation for PCs with enough memory and graphics processing power to handle the additional features, including the translucent Aero user interface and many of the digital media applications for photos and DVDs.

          Jeffrey Thomas, an attorney at Gordon Murray Tilden, said the average consumer shopping for a new PC and seeing a ?Vista Capable? sticker has ?a reasonable expectation? of getting ?the core experience that Microsoft has spent quite a lot of money advertising as the Vista experience.?

          Microsoft said consumers running the Basic version are in fact getting the ?core Vista experience? of increased performance, better security and easier file searching.

          Microsoft attorney Norman said advertising is a visual medium so it?s not surprising the snazzy translucent user interface called Aero and other visual aspects of Vista are highlighted.

          ?(But) what customers are going to appreciate on a day-to-day basis is the underlying architectural changes that have increased the security and reliability of that experience _ not something that?s easy to put up on an advertising board and catch a consumer?s attention,? she said.

          The suit was filed in U.S. District Court in Seattle.

      • #2643935

        I think the last thing ms would want is a revolt

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to VISTA IS A DUD

        if the cut out all support for xp by this year & make people adopt vista as not many are converting over.

    • #3229645

      VISTA IS

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      NO MORE

      YOURS MICK

      • #3229644

        HA HA HA HA HA HA HAS…………………………..

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to VISTA IS

        TALA VISTA BABY!

        ALAS NO MORE
        TA MICK

    • #3229967

      Cretin…

      by steve.marshall ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      You truly believe that MS would scrap something they have invested so much money in, even to the point of distributing BETA’s ?

      You know nothing of projects do you, certainly of something of this scale, if it was going to be scrapped it would have been done way before the BETA stage.

      Anyway… more to the point… what kind of perverse little man are you that takes great pleasure in seeing MS downed (Not that its going to happen) ?

      None of your posts have contained one iota of positivity unless you have been trying to massage the ego of a previous poster by telling them “Yes.. you are right !” without actually grasping what they were posting anyway ! Just a vain attempt of gaining some support from a large group of people that already know your nothing but an idiot without a point to prove…

      Anyway, broken my promise to myself twice now and made two posts after suggesting I would no longer entertain it… I’ll leave it at that, but may start a campaign to ban the gsaravin from these boards as you obviously have nothing to contribute other than random banter, self promotion, unrealistic and poorly constructed rants about a company/product you know nothing about.

      • #3229769

        you prove that you know nothing

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Cretin…

        You just prove to me that you are the real cretin.
        I have checked some of your postings & i have to say that they are crap & you are crap.Remember you are the one that’s attacking me .You don’t know anything as you are brainwashed whatever other people dish out to you. you can’t think for yourself,you can’t grasp reality.You are the real cretin.Whereas we are maintaining a sense of reality when someone like you comes along & spoils it for everyone.
        I challenge you to write in response how much you have tested vista I stake my claim on 29 years of testing in IT.I have a Masters in Computer science
        & i’m half way through my Phd.
        So there CRETIN go away!
        Mick

        • #3201926

          Show me one post…

          by steve.marshall ·

          In reply to you prove that you know nothing

          … of the 100’s that you have made that is a constructive one regarding Vista and it’s BETA status…

          I have seen many from HAL, Michael and others that actually attempt to deal with some of the inadequacies in Vista.

          All I see from you is child like posts quoting again and again that you have 29 years of experience and that you’re studying for you Phd yadda yadda to infinitum…

          I started many weeks ago requesting (politely) that maybe you need to review your debating techniques, but you chose to ignore that and continue your inane and nonsensicle ramblings quoting your resume again and again which basically means or achieves nothing other than re-enforcing the rest of the posting world that you have absoultely no idea what you’re talking about at all…

          A child can sit at home and profess they have walked on the moon, only their actions publicly can re-inforce that as fact, all you have displayed is an obvious lack of understanding of how OS’s are launched (Read Hardware driver problems) and no understanding of any kind of programme management.

          I have not actually commented directly on my experience of Vista as a tester because I have no experience of it, and frankly don’t personally want to… What I am interested in is the view of the technical public on its flaws and posible implementation requirements for a global rollout programme for the organisation I am responsible for, which, (as you’re so keen to enforce your CV, ill give you a little detail of mine) I will be responsible for the implementation of Vista (for my sins) for over 38,000 desktops globally for a Fortune 500 organisation, and thus my interest and why it’s important for me to have your worthless crap filtered off what otherwise is an interesting thread.

          Just do me one small favor and consider the value of your posts before you make them, there is absolutely NO NEED to continue telling people you have 29 years experience, because a) nobody cares, b) it has no impact on the subject, c) nobody believes you anyway.

          We don’t care if you have a PhD or even trying for one for the same reasons.

          I won’t bother answering your call of my intelligence as again it holds no relevance and the fact (or fiction) that I may (or may not) be a member of “the1000” or “mensa” has nothing to do with the subject anyway…

        • #3201912

          Guess what despite your rambling

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Show me one post…

          I’m right.All along you have been expecting me to be all technical with my reviews but i decided not to post any technical details as i feel that too much data will confuse people.The basic tenet has been that vista beta is crap & i ‘ve proved it & all the senior people have now agreed.Note people like George Ou no disrespect to him thought that like you that i don’t know what i’m talking about.But i have researched with my contacts,tested the Betas of which were a pain to work with as they would not even install properly.I lost 2 databases with vista due to backup software not working under vista.
          Different motherboards & bios not working properly,& drivers not working,new drivers not available etc etc Do i need to be more technical to say thats Crap.Also I have contacts that informed me that they think VISTA is totally
          finshed as far as an operating system.If ‘i’m
          wrong i’ll eat humble pie.Note also some of the IT chicks are even cracking on to me!
          personally dude i mean you no harm!
          Sorry dude If you want technical stuff you have to resort to mike or Hal(col)
          cheers dude
          mick
          Also don’t expect grammar or spelling on these
          posts as i’m lazy & write on the fly.

        • #3201875

          Re:

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Guess what despite your rambling

          No one is asking you to confuse people.

          What we do want is for you to prove your credentials.

          George and Michael are very reliable sources of info and, as much as I hate to admit to it as I disagree with him as often as I agree with him, HAL is also a reliable source for the most part.

          You, on the other hand, give nothing to this conversation other than your own opinion, and as the saying goes, opinions are like #$%^^^&, everyone has one.

        • #3230982

          ok i better explain

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Re:

          No one said you can’t run vista on it’s own using all sourts of setups but what was mean’t that if you wan’t to run other software on vista you better get some decent size hardware as anything less might not work with vista.It just depends what you trying to run.I couldnt get some of the software to work under
          vista & some hardware did’nt work well either.
          I hope this answers your question.
          ta george

        • #3230966

          Specifics…

          by steve.marshall ·

          In reply to ok i better explain

          People may find it more useful to know what “software” you have been unble to run, rather than being “informed” that no software works…

          Are you suggesting that the Office suite wont work, or that a specific VPN client is inoperable under the testing environmentyou work under…

          Is the performance of CADCam on a system with less than 12gig of ram unresponsive ? Or does it simply not install…

          Suggesting that “software” simply doesnt work or gives poor performance is about as much use as being informed that “a car tested in a controlled environment and will make 12 miles/gallon”… something that in the real world just never transpires…

          To refer back to your repeated issues with Hardware, again, specifics would be useful, although this is a vendor related issue and not a fainling of Vista (As I have mentioned before). Prior to it going to release the vendors will supply MS with their driver sets, you will find rudimentary compatibility only with most vendors during BETA as there is simply no point in asking a vendor to write a driver database for a system still in development as their requirements may change continually. It’s MS’s responsibility to indicate the pipeline requirements and specifications NOT to provide hardware compatability and connectivity.

          Anyway… to summarise, add more related content to your posts and you will be taken more seriously !

        • #3230921

          reply to steve….

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ok i better explain

          I have to agree that perhaps i could’ve supplied
          specific details.I thought simply commenting was enough & i can see that it puts some people off as they need something tangible.I suppose i owe you an apology for that.I just thought people would be bored stiff if i got all technical.Steve i see where you are coming from ok & i’m sorry to let you down & the tech republic team.I think i learned a valuable lesson in that you have to back up your argument with specifics otherwise people will think of you as an idiot & not take you seriously!
          thanks Steve
          ta Mick
          ta mick

        • #3201881

          Unfortunately…

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Show me one post…

          Tech Republic is getting full of people like him.

          I think TR should implement a new system where the users can vote comments to be stricken from the record.

    • #3229894

      gsarine No your HD is ok

      by michael l hereid sr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I have run into this because I burnt the iso onto a dvd too fast-try burning another dvd at a slower speed.
      Mike

    • #3201915

      hal &mike i got an answer to problem

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      i found out it was the bios on the motherboard.I managed to hoodwink the installation as it was looking for harware by pressing f7 & that’s it!
      ta mick

    • #3201773

      gsarine you still have not answered my question

      by michael l hereid sr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      How about this question – how did you get each version? Did you get each version off individual dvd’s or what.
      Also you say you need a 3 ghz cpu then how come I can run it on a AMD XP2800+(1.8ghz)or you say 100 g hd-I’m using a 40g hd-you say 1 gig of memory – I’m using on one of my test pc’s 512m and it runs just fine.

      Mike

      • #3230987

        heres how

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to gsarine you still have not answered my question

        I have various friends & i got it directly of a server.You can run it on it’s own fine no one said you can’t run it at all .we said when you have other software running as well that’s when you have hiccups.I would recommend at least 80 to 100 gig as 40 gig is very low on the spectrum.When running vista with other software i found problems galore.If you were just running vista on it’s own that should work .I even found different combinations of hardware did not work well with vista either not installing or hdd not being recognised at all.ther problems of compatiblity
        of bios etc was present.
        i hope that answers your question.
        ta Mick

        • #3230882

          gsaravine-don’t you remember when XP first came out in

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to heres how

          2001- a lot of people could not install XP unless they updated their BIOS and a lot of hardware would not either, there are litterally millions of differant hardware-MS can not be expected to write drivers for these-the manufacturers have to write them if they don’t -MS can not do anything about that.
          I do have other software running and as I said it works great here in both 32 bit and 64.
          Mike

        • #3230763
          Avatar photo

          Actually I still think that Windows 2000 was the worst

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to gsaravine-don’t you remember when XP first came out in

          Most of the people that I do work for ignored it completely and went from 98SE to XP and even then waited a while before they switched to XP.

          Y2K and ME where probably the most Ill [b]Fated MS Products Ever.[/b] And while XP had problems when its first production version hit the streets it was a relatively easy workaround for me at least. I still have one company using a Volume License copy of the Original XP though to be fair they didn’t take it up till it had been available for quite some time and if they had of waited a bit longer they would have got the SP1 version.

          Col

        • #3199777

          Are You Kidding Me

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Actually I still think that Windows 2000 was the worst

          It is pretty much a universal feeling that Windows 2000 was solid, stable, reliable, etc.

          Most of the needed features of XP without the eye candy and bloat.

          Compared to 98 or ME, 2000 was great. 98 was good to a degree, but in a business environment, 2000 was better.

        • #3199734

          i kid you not some

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Are You Kidding Me

          people are still on win2000 & they swear by it.They say how stable it is even if they are given a free
          copy of xp they will not change.Theres less things that can go wrong.
          ta mick

        • #3199743

          that does bring memories

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Actually I still think that Windows 2000 was the worst

          I remember when i installed beta 2000 it would notrecognise my lexmark printer & also it did not have
          signing.i remember it was brand new just released
          & lexmark did not have win 2000 drivers & i had to use win 95 drivers i ended up going back to win 98
          instead.
          ta mick

        • #3199748

          I have to agree with that ;but

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gsaravine-don’t you remember when XP first came out in

          you would expect drivers to be readilyavailable it’s like
          bringing the cart after the horse has bolted.I think one get’s frustrated when the operating system will not work properly.No one seems to care whether it be the manufacturer or the maker of the operating software.THey probably care only asbout the$.
          ta mick

        • #3199590

          Really!

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to I have to agree with that ;but

          “No one seems to care whether it be the manufacturer or the maker of the operating software”

          Same can be said about Linux driver issues.

          To me, that is the most frustrating thing about Linux…less so nowadays but certaintly a huge ploblem in the past.

          Driver support is/was awful.

          But like you said, “No one seems to care whether it be the manufacturer or the maker of the operating software”.

          Therefore, for me at least, until recently, Linux was not an option.

        • #3283804
          Avatar photo

          Rick you are totally correct

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Really!

          While it doesn’t matter who is at fault it’s always the Maker of the OS that gets the blame. In todays world that’s mostly MS so if you buy something it should just plug in and virtually work. Many people don’t even want to install drivers so it works properly and then complain that the New piece of Hardware doesn’t work with that OS be it Windows, OS X, Linux, BSD or whatever.

          I suppose that is the cross that IT people have to bear at one place the people paid a small fortune for some Garman GPS Software for Europe and they where complaining like hell when they plugged in the Memory Card that it was blank. When I got there they had a Card Reader the Memory Card and Destruction manual but they somehow misplaced the CD, well actually they hadn’t taken it out of the box that everything came in and thrown the box out when I retrieved it from the rubbish I loaded the European Map on the Memory card then easily inserted the Memory card and it worked a treat. The only problem was that by that stage the person in question had decided that it didn’t work so he had to try it out and insisted that it wasn’t working because it would only give him a distance from Brisbane AU to Madrid Spain with no route to travel to drive there. I just asked him how he planed to drive out of AU onto the Sub Content so he could continue to drive to Madrid it then struck him that he was asking the unit an impossible question but it took about 30 minutes of him complaining that it wasn’t working properly before he shut up long enough so that I could ask the proper questions so he understood why it couldn’t give him the directions that he wanted. 😀

          He did the same thing with an I Pod which came up as External Storage so to him it was working even if it didn’t play he songs that he had saved onto his XP computer. 🙂

          Col

        • #3283756

          Must be a Full Moon Out

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Rick you are totally correct

          Hal and I agree on something.

          Kidding.

          Hal, you’re a good guy…

        • #3283746

          rick is right again about the full moon bit

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Rick you are totally correct

          col i agreewith you entirely you vividly paint a true picture of what’s going on.On a different
          topic related to the full moon jus announced that pluto is no longer classified as a planet.If pluto was circling around the earth,what would you call it as it’s not a moon !
          I can see allready i’m growing a beard.
          ta mick

        • #2488709

          in reply michael have i said i have access to source code in vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to heres how

          well you are mistaken as i only have saifd that it is via using different types of software.to check on the functioning of the source code.I have given my methodology in other parts of this thread at no point have i said that i can hack into the actual code with full admin rights.I have merely said that there is software to check up where
          the operating system has flaws.For example fortify software has software to analyse source code in software.
          Fortify’s Source Code Analysis product sifts through source code and looks for possible vulnerabilities. The software checks for more than 65 types of flaws and typically runs on the server used by developers to “check in” completed chunks of code.
          One does not need to have access to the actual code to get an analysis report.
          I have not said that i have access to the code i have said that i hacve run tests.
          Tests on vista vs xp allready shown on this thread.
          ta mick

        • #2505228

          Ok gsaravin if I may remind you of a few posts you have made

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to in reply michael have i said i have access to source code in vista

          “I use software that other developers use called klocwork,which perform a detailed source code & design analysis.i can even look at complex situtions involving millions of lines of code.
          Also i use Seapine’s testtrack pro software ,it allows detailed tracking of any bugs.I also have usedmicrosoft’s sourcesafe .As well as automated
          checking & verification i can select manual checking
          of codeor any software.I also use testtrack pro from seapine which is a cross platform software
          which can quickly analyse any source code control integration.”

          All of these only check source code.

          “you haven’t tested the source code like i have ”

          If you don’t have the source code why did you say this.

          “i have done in depth level testing
          with various software right to the kernel & other ground work investigative software.This simply proves that vista has a lot to be desired.”

          Logically this means at code level

          “Whatever testing i’ve done is limited to 32 bit”

          If that’s truewhy did you say this

          “i have examined the details & vista does not answer the needs of the 64 bit architecture as i have tested it thouroughly”

          You can also give benchmark results but not the program that gives them to you-YE right.

          I’m sorry gsaravin but you keep changing your posts you can no longer keep track of what you have said. Or not said.
          (not insulting just the facts)
          Mike

      • #3230986

        in addition to your question

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to gsarine you still have not answered my question

        again no one said you can’t run it on 512 meg & no one said you can’t run it on 2800 amd.
        what was intended to say you would do better with 1
        gig ram & 3 gig speed.It would be necessary as you also running other software as well.Why bother just running vista if you are not adding the software.
        I hope you got that.
        ta Mick

    • #3230920

      AOPOLOGY TO ALL

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I have to apologise to you nice folk as i have not added much specfic details to my statements.In my
      wisdom & rushing around i thought that you guys are interested in just opinions.Yes you are but you would like to see specific details.After all this time it has taken to click in the old brain I’m so sorry will you forgive me.Also despite what i’ve said about vista i hope MS pulls it through,don’t you think that it deserves to make it after all the hardship?.I think it deserves to do well & i wish Ms well & i’m genuinely sorry that i called vista crap will you all forgive me.
      also good to meet so many technical people who have a genuine desire for IT you know who you are.Also that George Ou is simply amazing isn’t he?
      thanks
      Mick
      ta mick

      • #3230737

        Hilarious

        by drossi ·

        In reply to AOPOLOGY TO ALL

        Hey Everyone

        Not trying to start World War III on here or provoke it any further as i normally don’t reply to these things but guys come on its a beta! – thats why its buggy! – i’ve said it and everyone else has said it here.

        XP and every other operating system that has been released was the same when it was a beta, If it wasnt id be very scared! as for why alot of programs at the moment don’t work on it – well like i said and everyone else on here has said its a beta!, how can programmers make viable working programs if the operating system it has to run on isnt “finished” yet? Also how can hadware developers make fully working drivers for their equipment if the operating system is still evolving in front of them?

        Every few years they make a new OS that requires newer/faster hardware to drive people to spend more money to get newer machines in order to run it. If they didnt do that then why would people want to buy new machines if what they got is lightning fast and rock solid? then sales of hardware would drop and all the computer related companies out there wouldnt be making half the amount of money that they do right now.

        Like anything if you have your doubts, keep with your windows xp system for a minimum of 12 months after vista comes out so that anything critical that has been found by customers/security firms has been fixed and then you should have a better experience with the operating system. Or if you are really picky wait a few years till microsoft release a service pack!

        What i find absolutely hilarious is i have met alot of people in real life that say XP is the biggest load of crap and everything else they can think of but at the end of the day Guess what they are running – you guessed it! Windows XP! As far as im concerned, if you dont like XP keep your thoughts to yourself or do what some people do and switch to a Mac or run Linux and be done with it.

        As it has been said before on here 99% of all software out there is written for a microsoft based system so unless a viable alternative comes out then you are just going to have to put up with whats on offer. If you think you can do microsofts employees jobs better then maybe you should be employed by them.

        Also there is nothing worse when i have to deal with people that jump on the i hate this an that OS bandwagon when they haven’t even used it or can prove what they say to be true.

        I apologise if this offends anyone as that is not my intentions in any way shape or form i am just expressing to the public (and ranting i suppose) what i feel and what i have to deal with nearly everyday at my workplace! you can only take soo much!!! I am not trying to insult anyones intelligence or anything like that either i am just expressing myself….

        • #3199729

          i have to agree i think some of us

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Hilarious

          are just frustrated that we are literally taken for a ride.As consumers of be it hardware or software including operating systems do not perform the way we expect.Also the products become obsolete so quickly. i agree that some of us will hold on to our existing systems for a while.you don’t need to apologise you are simply expressing yourself.
          By the way who do you prefer out of the chip makers
          amd or intel & why please explain.
          ta mick

        • #3283770

          Speed of technology

          by drossi ·

          In reply to i have to agree i think some of us

          what really is frustrating is you can go out and buy the best of the best right now and find that in 3 days time it is superseded!!!! just unfortunate we live in a world where it is a big rush job in making the hardware and then we have to download firmware updates or software updates every 5 minutes just to get the item to do what it was advertised to do!!!!

        • #3283745

          regarding speed of technology

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Speed of technology

          i was planning to upgrade but i sttalled until now waiting for chips to improve in speed.Amd describes its dual core chips as 4600 & it’s not 4.6 gig speed real clock speed is 2.4 gig they said it operates better than a 3.2 gig dual core
          intel.Also previously you bought a 2.8 gig amd xp
          or sempron they operate at 1.6-1.8 gig.
          if you upgraded now which would you choose.
          ta mick

        • #3283721

          Id now go with an intel

          by drossi ·

          In reply to regarding speed of technology

          I used to be a AMD “Fanboy” lol but id go back to intel seeing they have faster FSB more cache etc etc

        • #3283699
          Avatar photo

          And if you use an Intel Chip Set M’Board

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Id now go with an intel

          You don’t have the compatibility issues that you get with some AMD M’Boards that will just plain & simple not work with some Video Cards.

          Compatibility issues with M’Boards made for AMD CPU’s are a real Minefield to wade through. A nightmare if you are building them to suit your needs rather than buying an [b]Off the Shelf[/b] system that you have to modify the way you work to make it work properly.

          Col

        • #3283681

          I’ve heard people still lump amd’s with celerons

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Id now go with an intel

          as intels are at a higher levels.Do you go for a particular motherboard & graphics card or due you just settle whatever is available??
          ta mick

        • #3209194
          Avatar photo

          It really depends on the workstation required

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Id now go with an intel

          But I never use the [b]All in One M’Boards[/b] Ever as the Systems are not much cheaper a lot slower and less reliable once the graphic chip goes you can not generally speaking get into the BIOS and disable it so unless you have already disabled the On Board Video your stuck with a dead M’Board. This will also happen if you flash the BIOS as it will default back to Factory Standard and lock you out again.

          As for the Celeron’s even Intel at the Chanel Partners Meetings doesn’t talk about these and at one Channel Partner Meeting that I went to when someone asked about the Celeron’s the Presenter just said [b]We don’t talk about those.[/b] Personally I don’t like them either as the limited amount of Cache on the chip doesn’t make up for the difference in performance when every thing is considered and the money saved is negligible in comparison to the slower performance. If you use a Celeron on an All in 1 M’Board you are getting the worst possible of everything available.

          I tend to use a lot of the ATI Video Cards personal Preference maybe but from previous experience they seem to work better for the people that I make computers for. Now it comes down to the interesting bits whenever I make an AMD unit on special Order they specify the basic hardware that they want and quite often the Video Card will not work with the M’Board. This gets quite annoying when it’s the same company who is making both units like A Bit with some of their AMD M’Boards their ATI Video Cards will not work actually what happens is that the computer fails to start you hit the on switch and besides the lights & Fans coming on nothing happens. Lately I’ve only been using the 256 MEG Video cards or bigger depending on the work that the workstation is going to do but even with some 1 Gig Video Cards I’ve had the same problem. My main Wholesale Supplier has several different brands available so I have a range to chose from something like 5 Brands of M’Board and 7 Video Card Makers. So far I’ve always been able to get a working system but what’s frustrating is the fact that one brand of Video Card will not work on an AMD M’Board while another that is the same Chip Set will.

          That is something that I’ve yet to have with an Intel Chip Set M’Board and it may be a non issue when and if AMD buys out ATI to be the main maker of chip Sets for M’Boards for AMD CPU’s just at the moment with all the different Chip Set Makers around it makes things hard particularly when you are using things close to the Top of the Range and they don’t work together.

          Actually I do us some all in one M’Boards but these are only for Custom Built NB and here you really don’t have much choice available there are only a limited number of available Chassis that you can chose from so you pick the one that best suits your needs at the time but even here these have their own dedicated Video Ram installed and although this may be limited to 64 MEG it gives you decent performance and then install the required CPU. RAM, HDD and any Optical drives that are required but on the last I tend to use Dual Layer DVD Burners as they don’t cost much more and give a far more versatile NB when it’s all said and done.

          Col

      • #3283750

        gsarine you owe a lot of people an apology as

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to AOPOLOGY TO ALL

        • #3283741

          re apology i don’t think i owe anyone an apology especially

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gsarine you owe a lot of people an apology as

          when i have been right.The first reference paint’s a rosy picture of vista as much better than xp.But i would question what software have they run to test vista to give them that result??
          You can run the operating system fine but until you load a particular software you may never know.
          Also on the issue of drivers there’s hardly any around
          also theres no mention of 64 bit at alll.
          The other reference is an it forum basically anything happens & they can just about say anything on vista.
          Ta Mick

        • #3209150

          have you checked out the new dualcore chips

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gsarine you owe a lot of people an apology as

          have you tested any of the dual core chips what’s you opinion.I don’t think they are cracked up to be.
          ta mick

        • #3209143

          do you know of any

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to have you checked out the new dualcore chips

          evaluation websites for the chips &hardware
          ta mick

        • #3209120

          Here are just a few

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to do you know of any

          http://www.tomshardware.com
          http://www.motherboards.org
          http://www.mbreview.com
          I thought you were a IT and don’t you know how to use a search engine

        • #3205818

          hey man give me a go some of the data available

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Here are just a few

          is biased towards intel & some towards amd i don’t know the whole kit & kabbotle of reputable websites!
          i aLLREADY USE TOMSHARDWARE.
          TA MICK

        • #3205778

          i thought you might know of pc benchmarking

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Here are just a few

          These hardly have anything that i want i want proper benchmarking.
          tA MICK

        • #3209114
          Avatar photo

          I only have limited experience with them

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to have you checked out the new dualcore chips

          I’ve used about 5,000 Intel Dual Cores 300 Intel Dual Cores with HTT and I think 4 AMD Dual Cores.

          Yes I know I mostly use Intel CPU’s as thats what the customer requires in the area that I work. The Dual Core Intel’s work a treat on Windows XP Pro as do the AMD’s I actually built one for my son to play games on and as an idea of it’s performance Ripping a DVD takes about 28 minutes as apposed to over an hour on a P4 3.2 GHZ both have 2 GIG of RAM and are on similar spec M’Boards.

          Of the Dual Core with HTT I haven’t used as many of these mainly because Windows XP doesn’t support the 4 Threads and every one of these has gone into a Nix Box for Graphic processing they really rock and push Linux along quite nicely. The jobs that where taking days to render can now be finished generally speaking within 1 day or slightly more depending on the particular job that is being done. Most of these have gone into a CG environment so they get a lot of heavy use.

          The Dual Core AMD’s that I’ve used have all been for Home Development machines where the people involved wanted the higher processing power without breaking the bank and they have all been difficult builds mainly because of Video Card incompatibles, but once you get parts that work together they work fine.

          Although from experience any Dual Core isn’t anywhere near as good a a Dual Processor System they are slightly slower but a Lot cheaper so I suppose it depends on what you want from a system as to how you rate them.

          Currently when I get the time I’m putting together a Dual Xeon 3.2 for myself with 2 GIG of RAM per CPU but I’ve been trying to finish the assembly since November last year and every time that I try to get down and bolt it together something urgent crops up so it gets left behind in the rush to do some paying work. 😀

          Col

        • #3205798

          i’m just asking

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I only have limited experience with them

          to see what experience people have had whether it’s better to upgrade now with dual core or wait for the quad core or something else to come up.What do you think i recon something is going to come up that will be a quantum leap on the rest! you could be left behind & do your dough!You know i know these people & they are the cheapest around check them out
          msy technology.com they are the cheapest in parts!
          ta mick

        • #3205496
          Avatar photo

          I suppose it depends on what you want to run

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to i’m just asking

          With the current Dual Cores without HTT XP Pro will run them to 100% capacity but if you use a Dual Core with HTT XP will still only see 2 Cores not the 4 data streams so you are buying more hardware than is necessary for the Software available. To get best usage of these new Multi Core CPU’s you need to either use one of the Nix’s or go with a MS Server product as none of MS’s current OS will support anything better than a Dual Core or a Single Core with HTT.

          The current Vista Enterprise does the same but this may change as the hardware is now becoming more available and MS needs to keep up with the available Hardware so that could very well be part of the reason why things on Vista have been put back again.

          It all depends on how MS is going to define a CPU. Is that 1 Core or 1 Core that Supports HTT or 2 Cores, or 2 Cores that Support HTT and so on as things get bigger and better. Currently the Hardware Makers are leaving MS behind as they seem unable to keep up with the pace of change. But that would be a very good reason to put back Vista again to rewrite the code for these Multi Core CPU’s that are now so freely available.

          Currently the Quad Core will only work with a MS Server product and something like 2003 isn’t ideally suited for the desktop so a Dual Core with HTT or a Quad Core will not be used to it full capacity. The best current option is a Dual Core without HTT as that works quite well with XP Pro and Vista at it’s current Beta stage but that could change very quickly in a short time.

          The current Pentium Extremes or the AMD Equivalent could be the next hottest thing available if Vista supports 4 Data Streams or even a Quad Core without HTT when they eventually hit the markets. But at the moment they are not available so it really depends on what you need to do.

          About 2 years ago I suggested to someone who asked should they buy a computer now or wait for Longhorn to become available I said buy now as Longhorn will not be around for a long time and I was hauled over the coals because I was being [b]flippant.[/b] 😀

          But from what he had read in the Mags he thought that Longhorn would be out within 6 months and nothing that anyone could say to him would make him think otherwise and that was back when [b]WinFS[/b] was supposed to be an integral part of what is now known as Vista. Maybe he’s still waiting to buy a Vista computer but I personally think that he would have bit the bullet a long time ago now and brought something new. :^0

          Col

        • #3282561

          mainly for video editing

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I suppose it depends on what you want to run

          video editing some people are saying that amd dual core 4600is the same as intel 3.2 gig dual
          core performance??
          tamick

        • #3205796

          dual xeon

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I only have limited experience with them

          how does that rate with the rest??
          ta mick

        • #3205490
          Avatar photo

          Well it really can’t be compared to any current Desktop

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to dual xeon

          As it’s much more a [b]Server[/b] platform as MS will tell you to a great degree. I’ll be multi Booting it and running several different OS’s on it one of which will be Windows but that will only work with Half the available Computing capacity as it will only see 2 Data Streams or 2 CPU’s if you like and these are 2 CPU’s that support HTT so there are effectively 4 Data Streams available for use. Maybe I brought the wrong M’Board as the one I got doesn’t support SATA Drives just IDE & SCSI but at this point in time I can’t see any major difference between one of the faster IDE and SATA drives in Real Time but maybe that’s changing as with 6 SATA Drives you could maybe setup a decent RAID configuration but as the M’Board will support 30 High Speed SCSI Drives straight from the On Board Controller That’s what I wanted as they are much faster than either the IDE or SATA drives that are available and with a Plug In card can be configured as a RAID if required. The down side is that the SCSI Drives are smaller and much more expensive than the available SATA Drives. Actually the entire thing is expensive as nothing about it is cheap but I’ve been using Dual Processor M’Boards since the Pentium Days and even the occasional Quad Processor setup and they have the advantage of not having all the cores on one chip so heat isn’t so much of a problem but even these things do run hot and standard they have massive Heat Sinks fitted. I naturally have gone with better & Bigger Heat Sinks so they are big and both have 2 80 MM Fans on them to blow air through the Heat Sink to shed as much heat as possible. They add a lot of weight to the M’Board and it’s safer to carry the M’Board with the CPU’s and Heat Sinks around by one of the Heat Sinks or you run the risk of breaking the M’Board because of the weight of he Heat Sinks.

          Col

        • #3205759

          i’m overwhelmed congrat’s

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I only have limited experience with them

          on being no 2 on tech republic’s top 100!
          ta mick

        • #3205738

          Well…

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to i’m overwhelmed congrat’s

          First off, I see you as number 73 not 2.

          Second, congrats on accomplishing absolutely nothing.

          It is clear that you have added nothing meaningful to this conversation and most would suspect that you had started out in a quest only to increase your rank and not have a meaningful discussion.

          To that end, you have been successful…at nothing.

        • #3205504
          Avatar photo

          Rick I hope you’ve done a Screen Dump

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Well…

          You currently have the most sort after Rating in all of TR. 🙂

          I wanted to be hard coded to 666 but the Boys & girls at TR will not play nice. 😀

          Col
          http://tinyurl.com/fz854 ]:)

        • #3282560

          i know what number i am

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well…

          i di d not say what i am that’s not my question i merely said that col is no 2 ,but if you want quote my number 73 then i’m in the top 100 & youre not.Rickk i don’t know of your accomplishment at tech republic,if you have any then i’ll beleive it.
          ta mick

        • #3282559

          i know what number i am

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well…

          i di d not say what i am that’s not my question i merely said that col is no 2 ,but if you want quote my number 73 then i’m in the top 100 & youre not.Rickk i don’t know of your accomplishment at tech republic,if you have any then i’ll beleive it.
          ta mick

        • #3284782

          Gsaravin… Post count ++ ???

          by steve.marshall ·

          In reply to Well…

          Gsaravin, now I know that all of your previous claims of having some intellect, experience and maturity is complete and utter rubbish…

          I had actually taken your earlier apology at face value and thought to give you the opportunity to redeem yourself, instead, you claim some kind of superiority for being able to post x number of comments with absolutely no value, no content and certainly totally out of context and think this makes you special ???

          I’m disapointed but not suprised.

          OK… I agree… Your special… very special……….

          Think about what your boasting about, are you so insigificant in life, your career and your personal environment that you get a kick from a high post count?

          This is not an insult, its a question, and can only be viewed as an insult if its true (as we all know the truth hurts right ?)

          TAKE A SECOND AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU POST, PLEASE !!!

        • #3284760

          in response to Steve Marshall

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i’m overwhelmed congrat’s

          I’m true to my word I have merely displayed news items for comment.What i have found that if I reply to someone else’s comment people try to pick the eyes out of it & take it out of context.The news items are about vista & are pertinent!.AS to the number of replies. I’ll do my best it’s not my fault
          people are replying is it?I’m finding that things are taken out of context.For example Mike snr quotes me one guy saying nice things about Vista then i quote to him another quote where the person negates it .Then i get someone like march red responding
          I don’t even know him.
          So there you have it i mean no disrespect to anyone all i want is a healthy discussion steve over to you.We have to reach 500.!
          ta mick

        • #3284665

          Quote …”we have to reach 500″…

          by steve.marshall ·

          In reply to in response to Steve Marshall

          My point zigactly…

        • #3283583

          The reply I gave back to you was

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to in response to Steve Marshall

          from the same person you qouted but a newer opinion in fact it was almost a month later. From what he seen in a later build than Beta 2. So from my point of view you are taking things out of context.
          Mike

        • #3283515
          Avatar photo

          Michael have you had a look at MS Site recently?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to in response to Steve Marshall

          RC1 was made available last night my time and has already reached it’s 100K limit so it’s not available to anyone any more.

          What’s MS playing at only issuing 100,000 copies for testing? It might work well for US people but others don’t stand a chance of getting a look in. 🙁

          Col

    • #3205785

      Same Old Story

      by mavmin2 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I have heard this similar comment about every version of Windows since 3.0. Yet, it always seems that one man’s crap is another man’s main course as I fullly expect to read many other raving testimonials to VISTA’s glory. In the end, we shall all migrate to it and wait to revile and praise the next version. In the Army, we had a saying that a bitching soldier is a happy soldier. Methinks that can be modified to a bitching SYSADMIN is a happy SYSADMIN. 😉

      • #3284758

        It seems to be the same thing all over

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Same Old Story

        again. What does it matter we’ll cop it in january 07.Regards your army thing you are 110% right that’s so true the more bitchin the more happier uou are!
        ta mick

    • #3284839

      Not a lot of substance, gsaravin …

      by marchred ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I’ve seen a lot of comments in this thread from you gsaravin (mostly cut ‘n’ paste), but very little substance to support this assertion.

      Most organisations strive to be on the leading, rather than bleeding, edge of technology and hence IT Managers use fora such as Techrepublic to assess what is the future direction they may wish to consider heading, based on the actual expereinces of other IT professionals. Unsupported diatribes are of no assistance whatsoever and only flag a particular poster as someone whose comments are to be skipped.

      I found the comments posted by mypl8s4u2 (on 07/05/06) to be very useful – factual and documenting actual experiences encountered. You may care to take time to read it and learn what people seek in here.

      You may have provided some evidence in subsequent posts, gsaravin, but frankly I have neither the time nor interest in wading through the seaweed to get to the clear water.

      • #3284767

        you jump the gun as my comment cut &paste were not directed

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Not a lot of substance, gsaravin …

        for you but for mike snr as he sent me a quote to say how i was wrong that vista will come good when the whole question is A BIG IF .You have taken it out of context.It was more for info only .We don’t know each other so how can you respond to it.I have provided info to adnauseum that vista has got fundamental source code problems & i have info from ms to prove it.You can agree to disagree.
        ta mick

        • #3283523

          What info ad nauseum

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to you jump the gun as my comment cut &paste were not directed

          You have never given any proof of what you say you qoute many times that you have been in IT for 29 years-your getting a PHD in computers but that is all you say, Oh you do day that Vista is crap but give no proof. You give other peoples opinions as proof but usually you put on is something that agrees with your opinion no matter is it several months out of date.
          Mike

        • #3283486

          you are entitled to you opinion like

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What info ad nauseum

          anyone else,If you look at other replies show the developer tools software that i use & my methodology
          that i use.I use other peoples opinions only to highlight the ones you guys so readily adopt as your own to prove that vista is not what it is going to be.
          ta Dr Mick ps please address me as Dr in future as anyless is insulting.
          Ta Dr Mick
          Also please note my phd was on design & analysis of operating systems!

      • #3284732

        have i got a quote for you! Windows Vista Beta 2 Plagued by Bugs

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Not a lot of substance, gsaravin …

        August 21, 2006 9:55AM

        “I have been testing Microsoft operating systems since Windows 95, and this is the buggiest OS I’ve seen this late in development,” says Joe Wilcox, an analyst with Jupiter Research. “Look at the older operating systems, and by Beta 2 there is a stable foundation on which the [independent software vendors] can build. Right now, Vista is like a ship on stormy seas.”
        ta mick

      • #3284725

        a foregone conclussion

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Not a lot of substance, gsaravin …

        August 21, 2006 9:55AM

        A survey of 207 companies released by Jupiter Research last week shows that nearly 50% of these 100-plus-employee outfits will wait at least 13 months after release to deploy Vista — or won’t deploy it at all.

        Microsoft’s traditional advocates also are questioning the viability of the software and its release schedule. Robert McLaws, a popular blogger and a Microsoft MVP (non-employees who offer expert analysis on products), said in his blog entry titled “The entry I didn’t want to write,” “Beta 2 was a disappointment on many levels. It was nowhere near as stable as it should have been.” McLaws says pushing the launch back four to six weeks with a release in February, adding another beta cycle and coming clean publicly with the new delay may be the best solution for producing “the best version of Windows ever.”
        He wasn’t the only one with stern advice for Microsoft. Former Microsoft blogger advocate Robert Scoble used his blog to say, “This sucker is just not ready It feels like it needs a good six more months, . . . which would mean a mid-year release next year.”(ha ha says mick)

        After five years between major client operating system releases, Microsoft needs a home run, experts say.

        “It’s ready when it’s ready, but it better be good when it’s ready or there’ll be hell to pay,” says Tom Henderson, principal researcher for ExtremeLabs and a member of the Network World Lab Alliance. He says there are a lot of issues with the code floating around among testers.My sentiments Mick!

        Others see additional red flags.

        “Put the testing aside, I can’t find a valid antivirus software that works with it,” says Michael Cherry, an analyst with research firm Directions on Microsoft. “That is a key application and runs at a core level. If the antivirus vendors, who work closely with Microsoft, can’t get Vista working, then the core is not stable.”My sentiments exactly Mick!

        Cherry says it might be time to reset expectations because an operating system no longer should be a groundbreaking piece of technology.

        “I am impressed with Apple OS and I like the way over the last couple of releases they have made a series of incremental improvements. It has not been earth-shattering,” he says.
        Their words not mine! I don.t want to say i told you so!
        ta Mick

    • #3284821

      Re: Vista is crap

      by todd ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Vista is still in BETA stage….. because its full of code that wont be in the final release, it crashes cause again BETA STAGE, drivers are also in BETA STAGE, have a look at beta releases of XP… same deal… not quite to this extent but thats to be expected. Considering Intel and AMD constantly try to get fast speeds from cpu’s, and Nvidia and ATI release cards that have phenominal processing speeds, why should vista be called ‘crap’ cause it utilises the hardware? Im not a MS fanboy, but give vista a chance, at least to get to the release stage.

      • #3284755

        re vista is crap

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Re: Vista is crap

        Vista as it stands is crap because it as an operating
        system where there is hardly any drivers at the moment & there is confusion as to whether any will be supplied.Comments from MS being made that they will not rigorisly test any drivers for anyone.THe manufacturers have not provided any & have not made plans to do so.That’s why i will not change to vista
        next year.Also there are huge compatibility issues
        The other matter i have heard from people within ms that they are having continuous source code
        problems both in the betas & theymay continue when If released should cause major concern.No one in their right mind would contemplate releasing an operating system with major faults.
        MS has simply brushed asside these problems & is still going ahead despite stability warnings.
        ta mick

        • #3283520

          I would like to know what stability problems

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to re vista is crap

          The only problems I have had with Vista are performance problems-which by the way I report to MS.
          The latest build (which by the way is 2 builds after Beta2) I have is very good on performance-stability and like I said I at this time only see minor performance problems.
          Mike

        • #3283480

          Thanks for that

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I would like to know what stability problems

          All i know is that i’m not satisfied with what has been done.Until such time as they can assure me that stability has been resolved & the majority of bugs removed i will not upgrade for quite some time.
          My company has decided not to upgrade to vista for
          at least 12 months.
          I agree with what you are saying but from what i’ve seen call it my opinion then i’m not totally convinced.
          ta Dr MIck

      • #3276219

        precisely

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Re: Vista is crap

        latest news is Due to teething problems and many businesses deciding to wait for this period to be over, the upgrade to Windows Vista is likely to take a year and a half or more. With the previous version of Internet Explorer now lacking many of the features users have come to expect, such as an integrated multiple-use internet search bar, the usage of Firefox in the coming months is therefore sure to rise – but only an unstable, tech crazed Microsoft-o-phobe could possibly claim that the new Internet Explorer will not allow Microsoft to continue to dominate the browser market for a good period of time.
        ta mick

      • #2518495

        hey michael this ones at you just the facts by

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Re: Vista is crap

        your favourite.it Describes vista as a lipstick on a pig.
        I wish I was making this up – I really do. I also wish that someone at Microsoft would wake up to the fact that the user experience in Windows Vista is 10x worse than it was in Windows XP (if only because they couldn?t get developers to adhere to XP guidelines, and now Vista apps look even more Frankenstined). I wish Microsoft would hire somebody to look at this stuff before it ships – and do something about the problems before the world has to deal with them.

        I wish users didn?t have to put up with this level of sloppiness from a multi-billion dollar company. I wish I didn?t have to play the ?bad guy? and point out that Classic Mode is still the only way to experience a clean, consistent Windows environment. I wish more people would look past Vista?s translucent veneer to see that it?s nothing more than lipstick on a pig. I wish people would see that I care more about this product than most Windows users do. I wish geeks cared more about UI? so that I wouldn?t feel like such a sore thumb here. Thanks to Brandon for posting this – and thanks to Ryan for pointing out that Windows 3.1 is still alive and well in Windows Vista (screenshot).

        classic mode, gui, microsoft, microsoft windows, operating system, os, translucent, ui, user experience, user interface, ux, vista, windows, windows vista, windows environment
        just the facts

    • #3284820

      Re: Vista is crap

      by todd ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Vista is still in BETA stage….. because its full of code that wont be in the final release, it crashes cause again BETA STAGE, drivers are also in BETA STAGE, have a look at beta releases of XP… same deal… not quite to this extent but thats to be expected. Considering Intel and AMD constantly try to get fast speeds from cpu’s, and Nvidia and ATI release cards that have phenominal processing speeds, why should vista be called ‘crap’ cause it utilises the hardware? Im not a MS fanboy, but give vista a chance, at least to get to the release stage.

      • #3284752

        vista deserves the chance that it gets

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Re: Vista is crap

        i mean that the same law of gigo garbage in garbage out applies to ms as it does to everyone else.WE as consumers base our expectations on the past & we hope that ms delivers on the promises as i for one will not easily part with my money.Whils’t ms has a virtual monopoly on windows software there will be other players like mac or even google getting in on the act.What’s needed is some more healthy competition.
        ta mick

      • #3280056

        We know beta is beta but

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Re: Vista is crap

        Ms has not fixed a lot of things that a wrong with vista.It still contains major source code errors.Theres problems with stability.The kernel can be easily hacked.Compatibility
        is a big problem.There’s hardly any software around.64 bit is not available properly.A lot of things promoised originally were abandoned.
        Vista would have been better served if there was a service pack release to win xP.rather than releasing a failure of an operating system.All in all it seems to be a face saving exercise by MS when Ms is trying to release something that’s crap on the unsuspecting consumers.All at the expense of making the mighty dollar.
        ta mick

      • #3280051

        more resource hungry than xp

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Re: Vista is crap

        The other thing is vista is a very resource hungry system.So if you have money to throw away by all means go for it
        ta mick

      • #2595577

        vista a headache to isp’s

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Re: Vista is crap

        Net firms tackle Vista headache

        Some new PC owners have faced problems getting online
        Windows Vista is causing problems for some new PC owners hooking up their machine to a broadband connection.
        Some old installation discs that simplify the task of configuring a PC for broadband have refused to work on machines loaded with Vista.

        One reader was warned by Virgin Media that it would be “weeks” before its software worked with Vista.

        Other net service firms have also admitted that the appearance of Vista has caused some hiccups for users.

        Disc delays

        Microsoft launched the consumer versions of Windows Vista on 30 January and anyone buying a PC since that date is likely to have it installed on their brand new machine.

        Many are thought to have suffered the same problem as Swansea-based Rob Evans who found that he could not use his existing Virgin Media account with his new PC from Tesco.

        After ringing Virgin for help he was told that Vista support may not be forthcoming for some time.

        A spokesman for Virgin Media, formerly NTL/Telewest, admitted that its discs did not yet work with Vista but added that Mr Evans was now using his broadband service.

        “We can get people online without the installation disc,” he added. “It’s not that it does not work, it’s just the disc.”

        The spokesman said that other net service firms were also known to be taking time to get to grips with Vista.

        Microsoft launched Windows Vista to consumers in January
        “It’s such a big product that to train staff up on it fully and make sure all your services are tested and compliant takes time,” he said.

        A spokesman for BT said: “I think we are now supporting it though we did have some issues with it.”

        In particular, he said, Vista was conflicting with the Norton security software that BT sells with some of its broadband bundles.

        “That’s now been ironed out,” he added.

        The spokesman said BT had created a help page devoted to Vista to make it easier for people to get their PC connected.

        Net service firm Tiscali advises its users to back-up important data on their Vista PC before attempting to connect it to broadband.

        Andrew Ferguson, editor at Think Broadband, said: “I suspect Vista is going to break a lot of things as it makes some major changes to how things are done in Windows.”

        “Many places aren’t up to speed with Vista yet,” he said.

        Welli foretold this months ago

        • #2595573

          serious search problems & indexing errors with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista a headache to isp’s

          Vista search with mapped network drives serious issues
          Some people are having some serious issues with Desktop Search on Vista Business edition after installing the UNC-plugin to enable searching mapped network drives.

          1. After installing the plugin, 80% of the time, opening a document in Word 2007 or Excel 2007 on the network drive (running Vista also), editing it, and then trying to save it leads to an error message. Excel simply says “Document not saved” when pressing save, and Word says something about network issues. The problem disappears when removing the UNC-plugin. No one else has the documents open or is editing the documents. The only solution is to save the document under another name. Removing UNC-plugin solves the problems. But why is the UNC-path plugin messing with the ability to save Word and Excel documents to the network drive?

          2. Clicking on a folder in search results opens a generic Vista search window (with grayish blue background), instead of opening that folder. Right-clicking on a document shows no option for opening containing folder. Why is this important functionality not working with mapped network drives? I have hundreds of documents with the same name, organized in different folders. With Vista Search and UNC-plugin, it is impossible to tell in what folder that document is saved in the Start-menu, and impossible to access that folder?

          At first, I tried using offline folders for my network drives. Search worked flawlessly, however, offline folders have critical issues regarding Access 2007 databases. It managed to corrupt one database beyond repair, and led to data inconsistency errors on a daily basis, so that is not an option for me…

          I’ve been searching the net to find clues about my issues, but so far, I have found nothing. I would be very greatful if someone could find a solution/explanation to these problems.

          (Using Vista Business and Office 2007 on 2 computers. The other computer acts as document server, the client accesses the other computer through a router).

          Issue 1 sounds suspiciously similar to the problem people were experiencing with file locking on shared drives in WDS 2.6 on XP (nb. one set of symptoms is described at http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/927018/en-us.).

          Noone on the newsgroup, to this point, has been able to make an authoritative statement regarding the suitability of WDS 3 in an environment that includes shared drives containing concurrently accessed files. At present, our IT staff refuse to allow any of us to run WDS because they believe the indexing engine is irreversibly locking shared files that are being simultaneously edited by various members of staff. It would be great to receive feedback from anyone that might know whether there are plans in the pipeline to remedy this problem. I love what this product can do on my home machine (which only contains local drives). But for the time being, we’ve all been banned from using it at work.

        • #2595572

          autocad does not work with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to serious search problems & indexing errors with vista

          Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out
          Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 10:34 AM
          [Editor’s Note: After posting a note last night about the reports of terrible performance by CAD software on Windows Vista, I turned to a knowledgeable industry veteran who recently became available to talk freely. When I asked Evan Yares for his view on what’s happening, he sent the following reply.]

          Microsoft Windows Vista was released for worldwide distribution on January 30. The very next day, reports started popping up about serious performance problems with CAD programs running on Vista. In an article on his WorldCAD Access blog, Ralph Grabowski says ?Wow! Vista Runs CAD 80% slower,? pointing to benchmarks published by Tom?s Hardware Guide. Several readers jumped in, speculating about the source of the problem.

          Before damning Microsoft for having completely screwed up, it might be worthwhile to consider that neither Microsoft nor the major CAD vendors are run by idiots. I can?t imagine Jim Heppelmann (Chief Product Officer of PTC) standing up in front of a crowd of users, and telling them to use a version of Windows that runs Pro/E 80% slower. (It?s not only because I think Heppelmann is smarter than that, it?s because Pro/E users are probably the toughest crowd in the CAD industry.)

          The claim that Vista runs CAD 80% slower simply doesn?t hold up to reasonable scrutiny. Looking at the benchmarks run by Tom?s Hardware, the only one to report such distressing numbers is SPECviewperf 9.03?which relies upon OpenGL. What the authors of the article didn?t explain particularly well is that, out of the box, Vista supports OpenGL as a software layer sitting on top of Direct3D, creating a nasty performance problem. The solution is to use the installable client drivers provided by either NVIDIA or ATI (both of which include high-performance OpenGL support), rather than the ?certified? drivers that come with Vista. The authors of the Tom?s Hardware article didn?t do this.

          There are legitimate reasons to be concerned about using Vista as a platform for CAD, not the least of which is that it has demanding minimum hardware requirements. Acceptable CAD performance under Vista is going to require new top-of-the-line hardware. Yet, even with the right hardware, CAD performance under Vista is going to remain an open question for a while longer. Microsoft pushed hard to get Vista shipped, but important components, such as display drivers and development tools, are still buggy and incomplete. It will likely be many months before these problems will be shaken out.

          Guest writer Evan Yares is the former executive director of the Open Design Alliance and, before that, a CAD industry analyst.

          Feedback
          # re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out
          2/2/2007 1:21 PM by Bill Fane
          …but I thought that the original promise of Windows was that it freed us from the hassle of having to install specific hardware drivers! Isn’t that what Plug-and-Play is supposed to be all about?

          # re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out
          2/2/2007 9:23 PM by Franck Hervet
          hi,
          i can go to ati or nvidia but they don’t have driver for all card!
          Fire gl from ati have nothing for vista. it’s a card for Cad!
          # re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out
          2/7/2007 7:08 AM by Matthew Fuller
          Forget slower performance: Windows Vista doesn’t support the latest (or any) verion of AutoCAD or its family products (ADT/ABS, etc). Autodesk are very much brushing it under the carpet, offering no statement or help other than “Vista doesn’t support it”. For many in the CAD industry, I would say this is a problem.

          We have just bought a new PC in the office (we generally get one a month to upgrade the oldest machine), and were completely unable to source a WinXP to go with it! Some have pointed out that ADT will “run as administrator” in Vista, but there are many features adversely affected, e.g. no network plotters in ADT (even though they are in Windows), and relative XRef paths not supported (which causes havoc if you use the Project Navigator system on larger projects). No doubt Microsoft don’t care, and Autodesk will simply insist we wait till the next release later this year, but as seasoned subscription users will have found, every new release comes with its own new set of bugs, and then the Autodesk tech support guys will tell us that perhaps we shouldn’t have upgraded after all!!

          Is anyone aware of possible patches/hotfixes/service packs in the pipeline to ease the problem? Failing that, perhaps we should halt all upgrading for the next year until we are ready to do Vista and ADT2008 all at once. A shot in the foot for Microsoft and Autodesk!
          # re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out
          2/8/2007 2:18 PM by zxys
          “but important components, such as display drivers and development tools, are still buggy and incomplete. It will likely be many months before these problems will be shaken out.”

          geez,..yeah, let’s wait,.. ya think!?

          but,.. wait, that there gui is so purtiy. yeah, that’ll make me/us productive!?

          Incredible, absolutely incredible.
          # re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out
          2/12/2007 1:20 AM by 3DCADResources
          I feel with a decent machine vista’s performance is not so bad. After all they have added so many new features with new aeroglass interface. It takes few months for us to get used to it.
          # re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out
          2/13/2007 2:31 AM by dotGt
          >>The authors of the Tom?s Hardware article didn?t do this.

          This seems false if you look at the driver installed, it is a version that supports natively openGL (please look at Ati’s release notes)
          # re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out
          2/14/2007 12:46 PM by Trevor
          Actually, I find it hard to blame on it all on Microsoft. Afterall, Vista is actually a vast improvement over XP and the new interface is sweet. It’s Autodesk fault for not being up front about it. Eventually, they will come around and fix it, I’m sure. In the mean time, we’re all stuck with this incompatibility issue.

    • #3284922

      My impressions of Vista Beta 2

      by john.madden ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Of course, i have to preface this with the fact we are still in Beta. I am a developer trying to rewrite some application code for th Vista.

      1. Graphics need some work. Looks great, but I still occasionally get grayed out Dialogs that work fine in XP. This seems to coincide with network activity so this may be a threading problem that they will fix. On rarer occasions the video burps and the machines needs to be rebooted.

      2. Network access, like shares and drive mappings appears a tad slow, but I think this is due to debug code in Beta 2. Real performance should be better (hope so).

      3. There are some issues with AD – one where the SAM account format, i.e. domain\username logon request is returned with “path not found.” This happens if the username is all numeric. Interestingly, is the format is qualified, i.e.
      username @ domain, it works fine.

      • #3283479

        i totally agree

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to My impressions of Vista Beta 2

        My impressions of vista is that it still crashes,& there are still wsource code problems & heaps of bugs.This scenario with ms trying to push it out regardless is going to take a long time for the consumers to accept.
        There seems to be a lot of people who simply load the vista op system & say that hey it works while others say it is not working properly.
        I say that you have to consider the software that is going to run as well under load.
        I may be crazy for saying this but vista is plagued with too many problems & all the good things have been canned so far.
        ta Dr Mick

    • #3283510

      Hal that was not RC1 but pre RC1(build 5536)

      by michael l hereid sr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      They allowed only 100,000 downloads of this to public then took it down- it was on the website-I heard about it from my REAL sources at MS campus. But don’t worry you will be able to get RC1 in about a week or so(if they don’t hit a snag)since you have TechNet you should see it just about the same time I get it.
      By the way build 5536 is pretty good-still needs a little work.
      🙂
      Mike

      • #3283420
        Avatar photo

        Mike you’re going to love this one

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Hal that was not RC1 but pre RC1(build 5536)

        I’ve got a customers Dual Processor system in here that for various reasons needs to be reloaded. Nothing special a P3 650 MHZ unit with a GIG of RAM and [b]XP Will Not Install![/b] However the Beta 2 of Vista installs perfectly without a problem. :^0

        Apparently he has upgraded it from 98 to XP Pro and of course the [b]One Upgrade CD[/b] that I have here I couldn’t easily find. After about 3 Hours of looking I found what I thought was the Upgrade CD and quite happily walked out to the computer and opened the CD Case only to find it empty. 🙁

        Only been a couple of years since I’ve had to use one so I’ve got no idea where the thing has got to I’ve most likely left it in a repair some time ago so now I’m waiting for the guy to bring in his Copy of the CD so I can load the unit. I’m not even going to try to figure out what’s happening here just roll with the punches. 😀

        But just to make sure I’ve put a copy of 98SE onto it and beside not having drivers for the Video Card it’s working perfectly so it’s not hardware related. 🙂

        Col

    • #3283120

      Sorry–it’s too early to call Vista “crap”

      by den2010 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      At the risk of feeding a troll, I would have to say that calling Vista crap at this stage of testing seems to indicate an axe to grind. Vista has some rough edges, sure, but it is still in beta. I’ve done several installs of Beta 2 (Build 5384) and just now of Build 5536, and the most aggravating thing I’ve encountered has been the UAP nag boxes. I’ve gotten Firefox and Thunderbird to run with minimal difficulty, as well as OpenOffice.org. and some other applications. Printers have been created without a lot of drama, and you can customize your desktop within pretty wide limits.

      I don’t know if there’s sufficient new stuff in Vista to justify an early upgrade for the general user. The hardware requirements are pretty heavy, but then, a tricked out Windows XP installation with some bells and whistles isn’t a lightweight either. The newest build (5536) runs nicely on a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 with 1 GB of RAM, and has a memory footprint of about 415 MB. That said, for those individuals who are willing to deal with the delay in getting Vista-compliant drivers for some hardware devices, and upgraded versions of some programs, I think Vista would be an appropriate OS to have on a new PC (or a recently upgraded existing PC) early next year. If one is comfortable with a Microsoft-based computing platform, the combination of Vista and MS Office 2007 should meet their needs quite nicely. The learning curve with the new user interfaces could be pretty steep, but the eye-candy does look nice. We’ll have to wait and see how Vista holds up on the security front, but I’d say it will be a lot better than XP was right out of the gate in 2001.

      And for all you posters out there who rant on about this or that–Vista or IE7 or Linux or any other topic that people here find worthy of discussion–will you for heaven’s sake learn how to spell and punctuate? People with doctorates shouldn’t come across in writing like hillbillies or illiterates…

      • #2508351

        no testing shows vista is much slower than xp

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Sorry–it’s too early to call Vista “crap”

        yep that’s right it is damn slower.Simply because ms has not got it right.All we have is a pack of lies & vista is ready is it ready/?? no!
        ta mick

      • #2498619

        well time has flown & i’m right in what i have said beta or no beta

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Sorry–it’s too early to call Vista “crap”

        i have tested vista & is slower than xp.That’s with the final product!As to your criticism of spelling try & type when you have acouple of wonky keys on your keyboard.
        Just to let you know, i know of heaps of people who won’t upgrade to vista & those few that did have gone back to xp!!
        At this moment the only use for vista is a rather expensive coaster!
        ta mick

      • #2609405

        Well you have been trully blasted out of the water

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Sorry–it’s too early to call Vista “crap”

        Recent testing of vista compared to xp has shown that vista is slower by 15%.
        Also chief Bill Gates stepped down because of the vista failure not because he wanted to devote more time to his part time charity Bill & Melinda Gatesfoundation.Only gullible people people beleive that!This has been the end of the road for ms & it’s cohorts.Well the idea of releasing of an op systems before they are finished are long gone.Vista is long gone & cannot catch up at all as there are critical performance woes. To counteract this ms hopes to stop issuing updates to xp at the end of this year where people will be forced to partake vista.
        Allready selling of vista has virtually dried up you have acer chief saying tha vista is a complete dud & they have gone back to xp.
        Other people like dell & hp & others are not openly recommending vista.They are offering xp & vista has been sidelined by use at your own peril.There are still security issues & stability issues.
        Well i have been right so far my predictions
        have come true.After years of testing op systems etc vista is the pits where a system is unfinished to the point it becomes unusable is unleashed on the gullible public.
        I was right,i was not merely speculating as some of you have stated!!!

        mick

    • #3283084

      experts

      by arizmendi ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      In my computer career (since 1959) I have NEVER seen anyone who describes themselves an “expert” to actually be one, or to even know very much about anything. Keep this in mind when reading rants and raves. I used to have a couple of PHDs working for me when I ran an operating systems group (one also had a Cal Tech advanced degree). Most people didn’t know they had PHDs, and neither said they were experts, but they were.

      • #3283068

        Vista is only partly crap

        by drchips ·

        In reply to experts

        I’m not an ‘Expert” like most of you guys are. I do not Have A PHD. What I do have is:

        I’ve been in computers since the 1970’s.
        4 degrees in programming languages (Basic,C,Fortran and Colbolt.

        Degree in Radio, Color TV and VCR’s.
        Degree in computer repair.

        Add it all up = Experince. (can’t spell either)

        Anyway back to Vista.

        To the person that says Vista is crap. I have to assume that he is using the A64 version of Vista. I don’t have an A64 up and running right now so I can’t check it out, but I am running the X86 version of Vista.

        Yes – Vista’s a bit crappy – It’s a beta.
        Yes – Vista has hardware and software incompatibility problems. – It’s a beta. That’s what bug reports are for.

        I tried to install My Visual Studio 6.0 and Vista came up with Setup cannot be run error.
        I sent in a bug report and most of my microsoft programs will now install (after updating).

        Vista seems to run on my computer just fine. It has only crashed once because I was trying to make it crash and had to reinstall. That’s what beta testing is all about.

        We’ll see how much Vista’s been fixed after the new beta comes out.

        My System:

        AMD Septron 2200 (1.5mhz) cpu
        1 G ddr ram
        Nvidia 6200 256mg video card
        240 G hhd

        Thanks
        DrChips also
        A.K.A. TheGameKing

      • #3283044
        Avatar photo

        Personally I prefer to say

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to experts

        I’ve had more practise than others when it comes to describing my qualifications as the Education doesn’t count in the [b]Real World[/b] at best it only gives you the right to start to go out and [b]Learn Your Trade.[/b]

        At one of the places that I used to work they insisted on calling me DR which was more of a nuisance than anything else particularly when on an aircraft once I was approached by one of the flight crew to help a person having a Heart Attack, because I was called DR on my ticket I must have known all about [b]Medical Things[/b] well that’s how many people see it anyway and I avoid ever using the term unless it’s for Legal Reports that are ending up in a Court. Besides as I say anyone who’s going to be impressed with all those silly letters after your name isn’t worth impressing in the first place. I also say that PHD is the sound that you make when you hit the floor after tripping over that whatever that was going to be fixed 2 years ago but is yet to be done. 😀

        Although I do like the Honorary PHD that I was awarded by one of the Peers here at TR now I officially have 4 PHD’s and the only one worth mentioning is the Honorary One on the [b]Erogenous Zones of Sheep[/b] because I see a lot of Kiwi’s around the place here and observe them. :^0

        Col

        • #3283027

          HONORARY Ph.D. ???

          by mark ·

          In reply to Personally I prefer to say

          I like that last one…

        • #3282986

          qualifications

          by arizmendi ·

          In reply to HONORARY Ph.D. ???

          I personally am two classes short of a Masters in Theoretical Mathematics, so I presumably can’t know anything about computers. Long ago, I realized that degrees don’t mean anything except to indicate that you might have a good starting point. One of the best computer guys I ever saw didn’t have any degree (he did end up with a PhD) – he worked full time, went to school full time and took care of a 5 yr old since his wife was dying. I won’t mention my background, except that once upon a time I did have overall responsibility for a complete mainframe operating system design and implementation back in spooling systems days. A Univac/Unisys vice pres once told me my operating systems group was the best in the Country, so I had great people working for me. What counts is what you accomplish, not what your PR is. As soon as we heard that someone was an expert, my group would let out a collective groan: “Oh no! Not another expert!”.

        • #3200119
          Avatar photo

          Join the club

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to qualifications

          Originally I built [b]Race Cars[/b] why back when and I did Electronic Engineering to learn about how I could design an Engine Management Systems back before they where available.

          So The most that I ever say in Day to Day life is that [b]I’m Still Learning Maybe One Day I’ll Get It Right![/b]

          But actually I enjoy the work way to much so I’ll just have to keep learning. 🙂

          Col

        • #3200007

          Hey Hal

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Join the club

          If you have a Technet account on connect-check the downloads-there maybe a surprise there.
          Mike

        • #3199998

          Sorry Hal

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Hey Hal

          But Technet won’t have this till next week but I’ll email you after I test for a few days. 😛
          Mike

        • #3199944

          guess what guys

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Join the club

          we are all on the same boat.The only reason qualifications come up to shut up the idiots who like to question everything.At no point do i quote rank to normal decent people who have a right to express their opinion.Not the idiots who come out of the blue the only thing they have to contribute is to criticise me personally.
          ta Mick

        • #3200124
          Avatar photo

          So do I :^0 :D :^0 :D

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to HONORARY Ph.D. ???

          That’s why I mentioned it. 🙂

          Col

        • #3200093

          this is fun

          by arizmendi ·

          In reply to So do I :^0 :D :^0 :D

          I was thinking of getting a PhD, but I don’t know where to mail my $15 for the certificate. Maybe I’ll get a Doctor of Divinity and another one for Sex Therapy – I need a hobby now that I’m retired. Why do you suppose that the multiple “Doctor” thinks he is the only person that has tried Vista? My first Alpha and Beta test work was in 1960 for Ibsys – I was one of the 45 people that got IBM to implement the first commercial operating system. Do you suppose he knows the difference between prest and squoze decks? And what a “Beta” system release means? Maybe he prefers DRDOS or likes S3 hardware. Vista Beta 2 configured my hardware better than XP, although the sound card and graphics drivers were rocky. It will be an improvement, but I’ll probably hang on to XP Pro for a while until I figure out if what I’ll gain for the bucks spent is worth it.

        • #3199943

          In reply to your “doctor”

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to this is fun

          I do not claim to be superior to the decent people
          at tech republic.I’m claiming superiority to the rat bag element who just appear out of the blue & criticise people for the sake of it. DR ARIZMENDI
          GO AHEAD & MAKE YOUR DAY & GET YOUR DOCTORATES.I don’t mind at all !!
          ta Mick, to the decent people of tech republic

      • #3200211

        no one is an expert

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to experts

        i don’t claim to be an expert just someone who knows
        at least i can comment not like some fence sitters.
        ta Dr Mick

    • #3283055

      Dr Mick?!?!?, (aka gsaravin)

      by marchred ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I do apologise to those in here actually trying to contribute worthwhile input on the question of where Vista is at, but there are some things that just niggle and one has to respond ….

      While I am not the slightest bit interested in whether you have or do not have any experience or qualifications, gsaravin – sorry Dr Mick, I am a little confused by your assertion that you are a PhD. On 21 August 2006 you were only half way through your doctorate and I quote from your post “you prove that you know nothing (403 of 482)”

      “… I challenge you to write in response how much you have tested vista I stake my claim on 29 years of testing in IT.I have a Masters in Computer science & i’m half way through my Phd.
      So there CRETIN go away!
      Mick

      Posted by: gsaravin@… Date: 08/21/06 …”

      Just wondering if you got your doctorate from the Khaosan Road University in Bangkok?

      Cheers

      Marchred

      • #3282990

        Template?

        by txtopgun ·

        In reply to Dr Mick?!?!?, (aka gsaravin)

        Maybe we could get him to post a link to the PHD template…maybe I we could all print one for our walls too.

        • #3200209

          why no indeed

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Template?

          you guys make it sound so easy.All the hardearned money i have poured into it would amaze you.not counting the blood & sweat to earn the doctorate.
          Ta Dr Mick

      • #3200210

        i’m going for second thesis where my first doctorate

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Dr Mick?!?!?, (aka gsaravin)

        was on operating systems.I’m now half way through
        my second thesis,so in essence i’m getting 2 doctorates!!!
        Those of you that think you know everything & show no respect will soon see that i’m right in what i say.
        Ta Dr Mick (also half way throgh second doctorate thesis.)

        • #3200154

          I still say that vista is crap

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i’m going for second thesis where my first doctorate

          due to the overwhelming evidence that there are so many things wrong with the operating system.I have tried it & i’m not satisfied with it far from it.
          I’m entitled to my opinion.
          Ta Dr Mick

        • #3200120

          Congratulations, everyone….

          by revsmileyg ·

          In reply to I still say that vista is crap

          … you made it to 500! And you all got me to pen my first (and probably last ever) post.

          I’m relatively new to the world of IT (a mere 15 years) and so I use this site to gain informative insights from my peers on a variety of subjects that I’ve been asked to look into.

          I have to say that I’ve learnt absolutely nothing new from this thread. It was funny for a while, but not anymore.

          I’m sure even my post will get an automated, duplicated and nonsensical reply from you know who, but it really won’t matter because I won’t be reading it.

          Have fun in the sandpit everyone, I’m off to see the world….

        • #3200026

          Revsmileyg

          by jonathan h ·

          In reply to Congratulations, everyone….

          I wish sincerely that the discussions were started by individuals more like yourself who, in the interest of learning and sharing knowledge joined this community. Thus far the posts I have made have been for mere entertainment.
          I am quite new to the IT world and for the most part just get to “fly by the seat of my pants”. Learning tools such as TechRepublic have been invaluable.

        • #3218636

          dear revs for short

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Congratulations, everyone….

          you don’t like to face the music & it’s head in the sand.I have been to the current roadshow here in sydney.I have had a 20 minute discussion with ms re the sort of things that i have come accross & strangely
          ms is full on agreement.But there has been some improvement in vista is the full thing i expect only time will tell.
          ta mick

        • #3200043

          I’m no expert

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i’m going for second thesis where my first doctorate

          I only have a AA Degree in Electronics that I earned in 1966-heck IC’s were just coming out at this time-my first computer was a Sinclair ZX81 Kit. In 1985 I started using IBM computers and in 1987 building mine. There weere not that many people at that time doing this so I had to learn on my own. Since that time I have built 25+ computers for myself and others. In 1997 I started beta testing for MS and since that time I have been on the beta team for 98/Plus98/98SE/Me(sorry on that one)and Xp.Now Vista.
          So I have seen the worst and the best-Vista is not as bad as you say. From what I’ve seen in the last 2 builds after Beta 2 – I think Vista will be b fantastic OS.
          Mike

        • #3199940

          good luck to you

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I’m no expert

          you are perfectly entitled to say that.
          ta mick

        • #3199916

          Well at Least I’m Honest

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to good luck to you

          About my experiance. You remind me of a supervisor(a young kid about 2years out of college)he wanted me to do a job his way-I told him it would not work and what he needed to do to make it work. So he tried it his way-guess what it did not work and when I did it my way it did. He only lasted a year- he had the degree but he did not know how to use it. I’m sorry but you sound just like him on every thing he would say he had the degree and no matter what he was right and I was wrong. He would never admit he was wrong even if you showed him he was. He could never prove he was right either.
          Before you say I’m just a kid – I’m 64 been in electronics for nearly 48 years.
          Ta, Mike

        • #3284593

          who I would hire

          by arizmendi ·

          In reply to Well at Least I’m Honest

          I would hire you (you have the right attitude), but (sorry kid) not “gsaravin”. I couldn’t work with him no matter how good or smart he might be. Although maybe he is not like this in person; the print and “real” personas are sometimes different. In 22 yrs of management, I never fired anyone I hired (but I was tempted sometimes), so my track record speaks for itself. I’m 73, and played with computers in high stress environments since 1959.

        • #3284496

          Just remember a little respect

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to who I would hire

          goes a long way.Just because my opinion is different
          doesn’t mean i’m wrong As there is no right or wrong.there is a saying we can agree to disagree but i will defend your right to express your opinion!
          It’s good to have an opinion we don’t have to agree on all things.Also these people who come on & are rude to me how would you react you probably would give them a job & they don’t have an opinion.!
          ta mick

    • #3200079

      Entertaining

      by onbliss ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I thought the talk about operating systems would be so over the top of my head and I would not understand much of what the experts discussed. So after the first few reads, I abandoned the thread. Little did I know that this would develop into a hilarious thread 🙂

      LOL… WOW…

      • #3200025

        You bet it’s funny!

        by arizmendi ·

        In reply to Entertaining

        For one person to think that they can comprehensively test a multi-million lines of code modern operating system is ludicrous. It couldn’t be done even when operating systems were 300,000 lines of code, but could be when a mainframe “operating system” was 256 words (1K bytes). One can test a tiny portion (without even knowing exactly what you are testing), and hopefully find a bug that can be reported to Microsoft to help us all out. After a few hundred thousand people do the same, most of the key problems can probably be found. That is what Beta testing is for. When the successor system is released, there are probably still a few thousand unsolved or unknown bugs in the old one. Having said that, quality is infinitely better than back when I ran a 35-person in-house operating systems group in the 60s. Back then, my management thought that running one test program a thousand times was as good as running a thousand different ones once.

      • #3199942

        problems posted to MS?

        by arizmendi ·

        In reply to Entertaining

        Of the thousands of problems that “gsaravin” has uncovered, how many has he documented and reported to Microsoft? Or does he just e-mail them and say Vista’s crap? If it’s the former, then good for him. If he hasn’t documented problems, then he is one of the problems.

      • #3284439

        It is shere bliss

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Entertaining

        welcome aboard as long as we don’t have it out this can be like a watering hole for our problems etc.
        A biit of respect won’t go astray as well.Im not perfect.To be human is to err.So no one is perfect we can all have our opinions & be heard I’m also
        suprised at this thread myself.
        ta Mick

    • #3284514

      Pssssst I’m running RC1 right now

      by michael l hereid sr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      and the differance from beta 2 and this is like the differance between night and day.
      The only bugs I’ve found so far is in MCE of Home premium version. They are very minor bugs compared to the ones I found in Beta 2 and previous versions.
      All the hardware in both of my computers were detected and installed.
      One thing I will recommend once it goes RTM that people buy the Home Premium version.
      ta, Mike

    • #3284502

      self taught is the best!!!

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      there is a thread that says “I have had enough of all you so called self taught people. Why are you in your job?

      You have no right to be there.

      What gives you the right?

      You never bothered to study the foundations of your profession. You make me sick.

      Pray the day you entrust something to these wannabes!”

      Ta Mick

      • #3284495

        I agree

        by arizmendi ·

        In reply to self taught is the best!!!

        I never thought it would happen, but I agree with “gsaravin” completely. Us elderly nerds HAD to be self taught since there were NO computer classes. I used to be in charge of user computer education at JPL (among other things), so instead of taking classes, my group taught them.

        • #3284492

          times change

          by arizmendi ·

          In reply to I agree

          Newbies probably don’t know that in early days, Operating Systems support was done by programmers whose function was mainly to correct errors in OS source code. Every site had the OS source, so you learned a lot after looking for bugs all day for years on end. Now, Operating Systems support is done by administrators, who configure systems but don’t ever look at code. Both can be difficult, and I have done both. I can’t say one or the other takes more skill, but the skill set is totally different. Current systems are much more sophisticated, but also much more stable so no one needs an OS programmer on site. Maybe that is why I changed from applications to Operating Systems to Data Center Manager to data communications (LANs and WANs) as each job became obsolete in turn.

      • #3284419

        Self taught the best-not really

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to self taught is the best!!!

        the best is a person with a PHD and the ability to recognize he does not know it all. Thing is nobody can know it all, People need to realise that with that PHD they need to get experiance to use that knowledge and the ability to combine the 2.
        Nothing turns people off faster than the person who says he’s right and everybody else is wrong. gsarine you sound like that person or at least in here you do-you say you have proof that Vista is crap but you won’t give that proof-you say you have test all versions of Vista but won’t give Build numbers of the ones you test, so what are people supposed to think.
        I’m not attacking you I am just asking for proof of what you say.
        MIke

        • #3284397

          self-vs-classes

          by arizmendi ·

          In reply to Self taught the best-not really

          It used to be that self-taught was the ONLY way you could learn due to NO classes; it was not the “right” way. The title of “programmer” did not exist, which was why programmers were Math, Physics, or Engineering majors. Now, sufficient classes and proper theoretical knowledge is available in schools, and taking a class for a semester is a lot quicker than spending a couple of years on your own to learn the same thing. You are right. You need a Computer Science degree now, preferably an advanced one. I (and thousands of others) were self taught since that was the only way to learn about computers – along the way we learned a lot of other stuff due to studying the wrong things so we at least got to be well rounded. I wish I knew a compelling reason why I need Vista. Maybe in two or three years.

        • #3284370

          Who “needs” Vista?

          by mark ·

          In reply to self-vs-classes

          Or XP, or Unix, or any other O/S? A computer with an O/S is relatively useless, you need applications to make it actually do useful work. Whether or not you “need” Vista depends on the applications you need to run. Eventually, (more than two or three year) you’ll be forced to run Vista if you want to use the applications that are written to run on it. If you can find suitable apps that run on Unix or XP or whatever that fulfills your needs, then you don’t need Vista.

        • #3284350

          Ok If you want to know who would want it

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Who “needs” Vista?

          YOU it you want
          Better security(it’s there)- IE more standardized-more protection visiting web sites(IE in a sandbox)- WinFS(huh yep it’s there(renamed .net3(beta form but it’s there)) better/faster search -yep-Aero display engine(yes it will help developers design better graphics be it games or work applications-improved NTFS file system-MCE (fantastic-you can record a tv show/movie and burn to dvd)-ready boost(improves performance)-setup on my 2 pc’s one setup in 20 minutes, other in 30 minutes-boot up time faster than XP- there is more that is not even seen in this version
          Mike

        • #3199218
          Avatar photo

          Only true if the Major Software Houses jump

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Ok If you want to know who would want it

          On Board with Digital Signing for Vista. If they don’t MS is going to have a big problem with their new OS come the first major Service Pack about 2 years after the production release of Vista.

          Also the recording of TV shows only applies to the 32 Bit version as the 64 Bit version is going to have Copy Protection to prevent the copping of DVD Media and the like.

          This might be a big improvement for Home users but I’ll sit on the fence a bit longer when it comes to Business Systems as I’ve yet to see any real benefit and things like Apples Quick Player to get Digitally Signed will have to be a Windows Only System with no Cross Platform Support, [b]Sorry But I can Not See things like this happening.[/b]

          Col

        • #3284325

          Ok then the latest build of vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Self taught the best-not really

          has major problems with the search engine.
          ista search – not all it’s cracked up to be

          Desktop search is one of the areas supposedly getting a major revamp in Windows Vista, according to Microsoft. But if my experiences with the Beta 2 release are anything to go by, users are likely to be disappointed.

          While trying out Vista, I did a quick search for a particular executable file. To my surprise, Vista couldn’t find it. Trawling through the hard drive manually, I soon found the file was there after all. What was going on?

          Microsoft seems to have optimised its Search tool in Vista chiefly for multimedia files. I’m sure that IT managers out there will be pleased to know how much easier it is for workers to find the digital photos and music they’ve stockpiled on their work PC, but what about other files?My experience shows this to be true.

          Searching for anything else seems to have become a much more complicated and long-winded process than is currently the case with Windows XP.

          Search1_1 For example, this is the process I went through to search for the install file for VMware’s Player, which I had already downloaded to the PC. All seems well at first; Vista now puts an Instant Search box in the Start menu. Typing ‘vmware’, however, comes back with ‘No items match your search’.

          Trying the main search function, now called the Search Folder, elicits the same response. At this point, the inexperienced user will probably assume the file isn’t there and give up.

          Search2_1 However, you can choose a specific search location from the drop-down Search Index. Selecting the C: drive and clicking OK starts a search that eventually locates the VMware install file, but not until nearly thirty seconds have passed.

          Search3_1The search tool under Windows XP is often maligned, but is much easier to use and finds files much faster by comparison. Just select Search from the Start menu, click ‘All files and folders’, type ‘vmware’, and Windows finds the file almost instantly.

          You may argue that the average office worker has little need to search for executables and other system files, but IT staff and other professional users will often need to. Why make it so tricky?

          You don’t need phd to work that out
          ta mick (you notice that i don’t use my qualifications when i talk to you)
          Only when i respond to idiots!
          ta Mick

        • #3199143

          Well on the search engine

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Ok then the latest build of vista

          Beta 2 was still a beta just as RC1 is still a beta. There were 2 beta’s between Beta 2 nd RC1 during that time don’t you think MS was refining search and all other things in Vista since features are set and won’t change-they are now spending time fixing any bugs that are found and increasing the performance.
          I just hunted for a exe file on my computer-it found it in less than 1 second and this was on a hd of 80gigs- I also searched for another exe on this computer that was in a partion of just one of the harddrives
          1 hd 120 gigs divided into 3 partitions of 40 gigs each
          2 2 S ATA 80 gig hd’s
          This search took 10 minutes but considering how much hd space I have not bad.
          Mike

        • #3284324

          Ok then the latest build of vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Self taught the best-not really

          Ms said that vista system is the most secure system in the world.Microsoft has admitted that the August mega patch included two patches intended for the beta versions of Vista that are currently under test around the world.Of the seven critical Windows updates released in August, two – MS06-042, which is a cumulative patch for Internet Explorer, and MS06-051, which fixes a vulnerability in the Windows kernel – also affect Windows Vista Beta 2 or later. .
          Ms warns that beta testers should not be lulled into a false sense of security by the addition of Vista.
          ta mick

        • #3199139

          True because software is made but us

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Ok then the latest build of vista

          imperfect humans-there well always be imperfect or bugs in software that is designed by us poor humans.
          Because of this you have to take an active part in helping the OS to keep secure. The software can only do so much.
          But then as a person with a Ph.D you already know this -RIGHT
          Mike

        • #3284084

          check out the latest scandal between symantec & MS

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to True because software is made but us

          on the semantec website it’s got Symantec saying vista is a load of crap as far as security is concerned.Practically the vista kernel is hackeable.Also Ms has virtually excluded third party software like symantec.ther is a huge furore going on with symantec accusing Ms of outright lying about
          vista.
          ta Mick

        • #3284080

          check out the latest news on vista from MS

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to True because software is made but us

          I have spoken to MS & the say that they cannot reveal the exact release date so that they can allways change it.I said to them that i felt that january 07 did not seem right for a release more like june 07 given the massive problems.They said there won’t be any more beta releases & it’s going to be final candidate.They did agree about the massive problems they are facing,huge technical hurdles.They seem to just shrug them off.I did mention to them about the calling off the release of vista completely they just laughed & said they
          don’t intend to call it off.There is too much at stake to do that.They did agree on a lot of the issues that i have raised on this thread.The other thing hardly anyone knows what the hell is going on down there!

          Ta mick

          ta Mick

        • #3201538

          What massive problems

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to check out the latest news on vista from MS

          I’m using RC1 right now and see only minor (very minor) problems. This computer runs 24/7 and is very stable. As I said there are only minor problems and I think when RC2 comes out those minor problems will be gone.
          On symantec- I have seen the products that they make and I have also worked on problems they cause. Recntly I worked on a Desktop that had their product on it. It had major stability problems and was very slow. After removing the Symantec software and getting him programs that do the same thing only better. It was no longer unstable and running better than when he bought it. A week later he called me and thanked me for giving him a better computer.
          The main thng Symantec i hollering about that because of the way Vista prevents any kernal changes which means they can not add their own code there, which to me is stupid. Now they will have to design their product the correct way.
          I would like to know what issues you are talking about in eveery comment you have made in this thread you have never mentioned even one of the issues, all you ever say is that there is issues.
          Mike

        • #3201309
        • #3201415

          Boy your sure self important –gsaravin–

          by wolf13 ·

          In reply to check out the latest news on vista from MS

          I have spoken to MS & the say that they cannot reveal the exact release date so that they can allways change

          I’M SURE MS WOULD TELL YOUR “ALL IMPORTANT SELF” SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

          I said to them that i felt that january 07 did not seem right for a release more like june 07 given the massive problems

          IM SURE MS COULD GIVE A CRAP ABOUT WHEN YOU THINK THAT VISTA SHOULD BE RELEASED

          BOW DOWN TO THE “COMPUTER MASTER” A GURU TO THE IT WORLD A MAN WHO KNOWS IT ALL AND “HAS DONE IT ALL” A PERSON WITH A SUPPOSED MASTER’S THAT CAN NOT SPELL- YOUR JUST A BLOWHARD WHO IS TRYING TO MAKE HIS SMALL UNIMPORTANT LIFE SEEM LIKE IT MEANS SOMETHING, BUT IN ACTUALITY IT JUST DEMEANS IT EVEN MORE WITH EACH POSTING THAT YOU MAKE.

        • #3201307

          You would expect a manufacturer to divulge

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Boy your sure self important –gsaravin–

          a release of a product why hide & lie .MS has done itself a major diservice by misrepresenting to the consumer of when they will release.They must know
          why is it just guesswork.What’s the big deal we all want to be told the truth is it or isn’t it & stop lying to us for a change.Delaying & lying is not going to help it in the long run.
          ta mick

        • #3284078

          Does you it job suck

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to True because software is made but us

          Why not spill the beans & let us know that your it job sucks.I love my it job because it offers variety & challenges!

          Ta mick

        • #3201532

          I don’t have a IT job-I’m retired

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Does you it job suck

          After over 50 years of working I figure I deserved to retire. Having worked those years in electronics I am still fasinated by what electronics can do and the possiblities of the future.
          I have worked with computers since 1981 and I am reading all the time trying to learn as much as I can about them.
          Mike

        • #3201304

          you know you are as old as you feel so why retire

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I don’t have a IT job-I’m retired

          When i first enetered it i was interested in the electronics side & repairing individual components.When i found out that you don’t replace individual components but replace the boards i did’nt bother with that.
          I pursued a career in IT you name it i’ve done it.
          I still say us oldies should keep going as we need to stimulate the younger people by setting them an example.Who would’ve beleived a 10 meg hardrive sold in 1982 for $2500.Now you can get a 350 gig hardrive for $120.I’d hate to think the advances we’ll make in 5 to 10 years it’s all too mindbogling.I’ll just keep going when my firm doesn’t want me & i’ll retire when i’m good & ready.
          ta mick

        • #3201303

          my it job is interesting & varies in challenge

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Does you it job suck

          from day to day different challenges come up you have to face them square & without avoiding the hard ones,you accept them all & apply your knowledge & experience.I can say i have thoroughly enjoyed my time working in the it sector.I wouldn’t give up my job for anything.
          ta mick

        • #3220341

          PROOF – PROOF – PROOF

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to my it job is interesting & varies in challenge

          Ok Mr. PHD – prove to everybody that you have said qualification. Failure to do so will be taken as ‘you have none’.

          Any comment about not having to do so will be taken as ‘you have none’

          Any other comment OR failure to deliver said information will result in ‘you have none’.

          Cough it up then??

    • #3284440

      that explains it Tx topgun

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I suppose what’s going to matter MS is going to thrust it’s software on us whether we like it or not
      At least here we can get it off our chest.As long as we don’t take it out on each other.For a minute there you were getting on my goat.See that’s the thing when you don’t know the people visually & not having met you i assumed the worst.So underneath that skin there beats a heart of gold!Sorry to upset you!.
      This thread i would like it to be like a watering hole where people from IT can let it all hang out.
      Speak your mind & don’t be afraid to say it!
      ta Mick love ya all.

    • #3230684

      Re: This proves Re: You would expect

      by michael l hereid sr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Your link on MS not knowing what they’re doing does not work.

      On not devulging the release of a product- Vista is not ready for release-it is only a RC-even at RC something may happen to delay the product and no manufacturer will announce when a product is at this stage but then you know that right -you have been in IT for so many years that you should.
      Mike

      • #3230637

        Re: Why retire

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to Re: This proves Re: You would expect

        As I have said I have worked for 50+ years in that time I have done all kinds of jobs from electronic repair to plant maintaince. My body is wore out. I was ready to retire to enjoy my hobbies of electronics(designing and building projects)-Amatuer radio and computers. Oh and enjoying my grandkids.
        I still enjoy working on computers from building my own or for others to working on other peoples computers and showing them how to take care of them. Plus I get to beta test for MS to help them make better products.
        I remember in 1997 buying a 640 meg hd for $200 and thinking this thing is so big that I’ll never be able to fill it. Thing is I can now buy a 250 gig hd for $110.
        Mike

        PS I can now buy a 500gig hd for that same $200

        • #3200738
          Avatar photo

          Mike do you remember

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Re: Why retire

          How much RAM used to cost when the 286/386 Systems where new?

          I can remember having a system with 4 MEG of RAM installed and back then it was considered as overkill needing that much RAM.

          The first computer that I built for myself has 128 MEG of RAM 8 X 16 MEG 30 pin sticks installed and I had to wait for that RAM to come in as it wasn’t something that was carried only listed. Back then I think that we where paying around $100.00 AU per MEG and we all thought that was so cheap. 😀

          Now I’m using 2 GIG RAM sticks and think nothing of it and it costs far less for all the RAM in the entire system than what 1 of those 16 MEG RAM sticks used to cost. 🙂

          Col

        • #3200589

          Well yea I do

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Mike do you remember

          The first time I built a pc. After I assembled all the pieces, it sat on my bench for an hour before I got the courage to turn on. If it had smoked I would have also gone up in smoke-my wife would have made sure of that.
          Mike

    • #3230660

      It’s OK from what I’ve seen

      by rob ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I have bene running Vista under VMWARE Workstation and have 512mb allocated to it.

      It runs OK. I haven’t really seen much special, new or innovative. Office 2007 running on it is kind of nice. MANY visual changes, Vista and Office seem kind of dumbed down. Kind of an Adobe type look to the tools in Office.

      Performance is OK, nothing special but then again I’m running VM on a Core Duo 2.0ghz. I’d like to see it native on my laptop.

      I CAN tell you this, WE ALL HAVE MORE JOB SECURITY. The visual changes are enough to completely confuse the masses, especially in Office. I think comapnies should wait to deploy this puppy until at least SP1. The learning curve for the masses on this one is going to be steep.

      • #3230519

        From what I’ve seen more than OK

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to It’s OK from what I’ve seen

        But then I’ve been beta testing Vista since July of 2005. For another I’ve tried to record TV shows/Movies since Windows 98. At last with Vista I can do this and even burn to dvd with no problems.
        As far as performance Vista boots faster-applications startup faster than XP.
        The learning curve is just about the same as when Windows came on the market(Windows 3.1 anyone).
        Before you mention software compatibility-remember when XP came out it took a while but evenually it got pretty good-once Vista goes RTM – MS will still be working on that and by the time you can buy it there will be many improvements. I’ve not seen Office 2007 so I have to take your word on that.
        Mike

        • #3200737
          Avatar photo

          Mike have you tried the Beta of Office 2007?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to From what I’ve seen more than OK

          It’s totally different in the user interface, that’s what I think the above poster is referring to. Unlike the previous versions of Office the tools are laid out differently and what was previously second nature takes some finding now.

          If it takes off people will initially have a fairly steep learning curve to go through but eventually will probably like the new interface though to be honest it’s totally different to the previous versions of Office that have been available and for that reason alone will make the transition harder for many people particularly the ones using it for Business as they will initially be much slower till they have used it for some time.

          Col

        • #3200615

          Actually no

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Mike have you tried the Beta of Office 2007?

          I have not used this beta but then I’m in 6 other betas. 🙂 But every windows beta I have been in-the interface has been in some way differant.
          Like with Vista-I’m still learnng the interface and sometimes I have to hunt for what I want to do.
          Mike

    • #3282793
      Avatar photo

      For anyone interested MS has just released

      by hal 9000 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Vista RC1 and the 32 Bit version is only about 2.5 GIG so it’s much smaller than the previous Vista Beta Releases.

      I’ve got it coming down now but unfortunately the main machine that I was going to try it on is being used to recover data off 2 HDD so I’ll be playing with it on smaller less powerful systems till I have recovered all the data off the drives. 🙁

      Col

      • #3282732

        As I said RC 1 is totally differant than Beta 2

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to For anyone interested MS has just released

        So far since Friday I have found only minor problems with it. I have both of my pc’s installed with Home Premium and I’m using Vista 99% of the time-it is that good-only reason I go to XP is because I’m still in 6 other betas.
        Mike
        PS as soon as I get 256 of memory and a better video card-it will be on my granddaughters pc-total cost $65.

        • #3200526

          i’ll agree that there has been some improvement

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to As I said RC 1 is totally differant than Beta 2

          but i reckon that you should get kninston ddr2 chips
          as they are the best.A good graphics card is definitely a must.
          ta mick

      • #3282701

        I’m just using rc 1 & found errors

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to For anyone interested MS has just released

        I’ve just installed rc 1 on a hp pavillion intel 3 gig duo processor when low & behold my dynalink 56 k modem caused a stop error of which there is no recovery from.
        ta mick

      • #3282699

        rc 1 is definitely more stable

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to For anyone interested MS has just released

        than the others but there are a few niggling problems.Different hardware seems to cause sporadic
        crashes.
        Ta mick

        • #3282690

          Use Quality parts and get

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to rc 1 is definitely more stable

          quality results. Plus it helps when the manufactures make the correct drivers for those parts and that particular software.
          Mike

        • #3200525

          right that’s a definite yes

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Use Quality parts and get

          when manufacturers provide us with the right drivers then maybe we’ll get some stability back in our systems.It’s a wait & see.
          ta mick

      • #3282698

        ram chips incompatible with vista

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to For anyone interested MS has just released

        i’ve just tried some of the generic ram ddr 2 chips
        they don’t seem to work with vista properly,i’ve had to settle with kingston,that seems to work!
        ta mick

        • #3282692

          Well when I build a pc

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to ram chips incompatible with vista

          I do not use a generic brand anything. When I get ram I use what the manufacturer recommends -I have found that Kingston works very good for me. When I chose other parts I find if I read reviews from other people that have used them and websites that review those parts- my computers work much better.
          Mike

        • #3226879

          rc 1 Boot time is slow

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well when I build a pc

          Rc takes about 1 minute to boot,MS are working on it.
          ta mick

        • #3228143

          Download problems with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well when I build a pc

          when downloading stuff with vista you can experience freezups,loss of connections as the webinstaller is incompatible with vista.
          ta mick

      • #3227233

        RC1 opinions as of 9/15/06

        by arizmendi ·

        In reply to For anyone interested MS has just released

        I tried the latest Vista RC1 as of 9/15/06 (RC1 plus 1 update). Here are my opinions after limited testing – I got tired & frustrated and gave up.
        1. Nero 6 does not install (I got an ‘Undetermined error”).
        2. Moving IE “favorites” from my old system files sucks. The “wizard” did not work even though my old favorites bookmarks was also IE7.
        3. IE7 bookmark display is inferior to IE6 and Firefox. I prefer cascading style – it’s much easier to look for bookmarks.
        4. The new “documents and folders” system will take a lot of getting used to.
        5. I sure hope that “update” will work. It’s a mess re-installing the little details right now.

    • #3228175

      red herring rc 1 still has problems

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Microsoft did not confirm the pricing then, but its latest announcement shows it to be in line with Amazon.com prices. Upgrades will cost between $100 for the basic version and $259 for the ?ultimate? version. Without an upgrade, the software will sell for $199 to $399.

      Vista is estimated to have more than 50 million lines of code and has a complete overhaul of key components of the operating system.

      ?Windows Vista makes a whole lot of plumbing changes?kernel, graphics, etc.?that are almost certain to require some tweaking somewhere,? said Joe Wilcox, an analyst with JupiterResearch. ?It?s one reason why I suspect Microsoft provided the pre-RC to 100,000 volunteer testers before issuing the release candidate to potentially millions of people.?
      It could also be the reason why Microsoft?s race to the finish line with Vista has opened up the program to 5 million testers.
      ta mick

      • #3228033

        gsarine it’s RC not RTM

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to red herring rc 1 still has problems

        This is where MS does the tweaking of performance removing all of the debug code as I have said before I have found few bugs in this build mostly needing tweaking of the performance issues.
        Mike
        PS this is my main OS on this pc.

    • #3228173

      further delays of vista expected

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Vista?s Outlook Gets Cloudier,& cloudier

      Gartner predicts Microsoft will ship its upcoming Vista operating system later than the January 2007 target.
      Microsoft?s upcoming operating system Windows Vista is unlikely to ship until the second quarter of 2007, research firm Gartner said Wednesday, suggesting another potential delay that would be profoundly embarrassing for the software giant despite having little long-term impact.
      Gartner said it now expects Vista to hit the shelves anytime between April and June of next year, instead of January, which is when the company last said it would roll the OS out. Microsoft still has plenty of work to do on the product, said Gartner.
      Analysts estimate it will take another nine months to turn that into a final product.
      Vista is the first major operating system to come out of Redmond in nearly five years and is regarded as the most important one since Microsoft released the Windows 95 OS nearly a decade ago.

      ta mick

      • #3228043

        As usual you take a earlier report

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to further delays of vista expected

        This one from May 2 of 2006 and say this is why Vista will be delayed.
        From the same mag that you got the gartner report but dated September 6,2006
        http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/09/06/HNvistastable_1.html?s=feature
        Mike

      • #3227536
        Avatar photo

        Hardly unexpected

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to further delays of vista expected

        As this is exactly what MS was saying as of 22 May 06 at the last Partner Meeting that I attended. They where setting a possible supply date for the masses come Jan Feb 07 but it could be put back till latter as that was at that stage still only a [b]Projected Release Date.[/b]

        The Business Version was projected for Release in November 06 but again that was only a [b]Projected Release Date[/b] and nothing had at that stage been set in stone.

        Currently the RC1 32 Bit version seems reasonably stable and the 64 Bit one seems about the same as the 64 Bit Version of XP hardly useful at all. This is what MS is going to have to work on as the 64 Bit version will in the not to distant future be the standard OS to work from and the 32 Bit one will be relegated to the past just like the 8 & 16 Bit ones where.

        Col

    • #3228169

      doubtfull on release times

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Microsoft Explains Vista Build Numbers

      The Microsoft official responsible for releasing Windows Vista builds explained in an interview published on the Vista Team Weblog this week some of the intricacies of how the build numbering scheme for Release Candidates works.

      In the interview, Sven Hallauer, director of release management for Windows Vista, said the company currently has parallel build cycles in play for builds numbered 5400 through 5699 which are reserved for Release Candidates (RC). At the same time, it also has reserved builds numbered 5700 and above for Release to Manufacturing (RTM) — the step following the last RC build and the code that will ultimately be released to customers.

      “So does this mean that MS is working on builds for RC1 and RTM in parallel? You bet!” says the posting that accompanies the interview online.
      you bet mick

    • #3228167

      ms warned on vista security problems

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I originally stated that vista had more security problems than you can poke a stick at!
      Look at the following story:
      EU Warns Microsoft About Vista Security Market

      by The Associated Press

      September 12, 2006

      European Union officials warned Microsoft Corp. on Tuesday not to shut out rivals in the security software market as the company plans to launch its Windows Vista operating system with built-in protection from hackers and malicious programs.

      EU spokesman Jonathan Todd told reporters that the European Commission is “ready to give guidance to Microsoft” concerning Vista but added that it was up to the U.S. software maker “to accept and implement its responsibilities as a near monopolist to ensure full compliance” with EU competition rules.

      Microsoft, meanwhile, warned EU regulators to avoid attempting to block the in-house security upgrades it is making to the long-delayed Windows upgrade now scheduled for release to companies in November and consumers in January.
      ta
      mick

      • #3228059

        Do you know why Synmantic is complaining

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to ms warned on vista security problems

        Because Vista does not allow changes to the kernal. Symantic wants to be able to add it’s own code to the kernal but just like Apple and Linux the kernal is protected against that.
        I am one of those that will never allow Symantic products near my computers. I have worked on too many computers that have been messed up by those products.
        There are other individual products that so the same thing as Symantic products but they just do them better without adding code to the kernal.
        How can EU commision give guidance to MS on things it has no knowledge about.
        Mike

    • #3228166

      ms warned on vista security problems

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Special Report

      Vista Deployment ? As in Hollywood, Image Is Everything

      Stuart J. Johnston

      September 11, 2006

      With the debut of Windows Vista Release Candidate 1 (RC1) last week, Microsoft has begun the final test phase before releasing its new desktop operating system to the marketplace. From previous experience, it?s clear many IT shops will spend as many as 18 months testing the final code before moving forward. But now is the time to begin planning how to best deploy Microsoft?s first major upgrade to Windows in five years.

      Additionally, there are always early adopters who want to get in at the bleeding edge of the technology curve in hopes of gaining competitive advantage over rival companies.

      One prime example: Microsoft?s internal IT department ? in the company?s longstanding tradition of ?eating its own dogfood? ? has already garnered plenty of experience deploying Vista over the past three or four months. MSIT began deploying Vista to users? PCs with the beginning of Beta 2 last spring. To date, they have rolled out more than 25,000 copies.

      Key to Microsoft?s own deployment and, the company believes, to simplifying rollouts for corporate customers, is a new system imaging format called Windows Image format or WIM as well as tools that work with it. Unlike previous Windows releases, WIM enables administrators to deploy a single system image for virtually all PCs.

      ?While we don?t really know quite yet whether the reality will live up to the promises, [WIM] should certainly save IT a lot of time in prepping the images, and [constitute] a substantial savings in time managing multiple images,? said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. ?Up until now, it?s been very difficult to deploy [new operating systems].?

      Vista?s Image Manager tool enables IT managers to compress binaries into one file that?s easy to manipulate — it?s componentized and can be used offline.
      ta mick

      • #3228038

        This post has nothing to do with security problems

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to ms warned on vista security problems

        But tells how it will allow to easly and cheaply deploy Windows Vista in a enterprise setting. Which makes Vista even more valuable for enterprise.
        Mike

        • #3227698

          i don’t know what post your talking about

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to This post has nothing to do with security problems

          all i know is that the rc1 kernal can be hacked into easily despite the assurances on th cotrary by MS.The whole vista platform rests that vista is not hackable at this point.Symantec has proved that
          you can hack vista easily.
          Ta mick

        • #3229122

          “I don’t know what post your talking about”….

          by steve.marshall ·

          In reply to i don’t know what post your talking about

          … Your previous “post” (I always use the term lightly regarding any of your own…) is clearly titled “MS Warned of vista security problems” and contains a copy/paste of an article that simply states that MS are roling out 25k copies within their own offices…. no mention of security vulnerabilities to be found…

          The only complaints regarding security have been from the worst anti-virus software house out there complaining that their crappy software is not able to write to the kernal any more… how is that a security risk ? when MS are stopping these poor applications from manipulating their critical piece of software infratstructure…

          I really have no idea what you are all about gsaravin… can’t figure out if you are the biggest incompetant socially inept loser I have ever met or the smartest person in the world, all I do know is your posts are STILL worthless, STILL quote complete unrelated rubbish but I have to thank you for not continuing to post your resume anymore…

        • #3205425

          it’s on the symantec website & it is

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to “I don’t know what post your talking about”….

          a news item of how it was proved that the vista kernel can be so easily hacked into.To which Ms issued a counter denial that’s what it about.that made the news.
          Ta mick

        • #3204865

          Where on the Symantec site is it

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to it’s on the symantec website & it is

          I hunted all over the site and can find no mention of the hacking. But I know about it-it was at a Blackhat convention and even when she showed it, she said that MS had already repaired the hole.
          Mike

        • #2518732

          ram errors to do with caching system

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i don’t know what post your talking about

          I’ve got the same problem I changed the memory usage setting from program first to system cache first, in the system property->advanced->performance options.
          However in the safety mode, no error message pumps up. I changed the setting back in the safty mode, and the error disappeared up to now.
          I believe this is a vista bug which is related to the large system cache technique.
          Hope it’s helpful to someone here.

        • #2518729

          ms admits to failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ram errors to do with caching system

          Microsoft admit Vista is a failure [ 21-04-2007 ]

          I’ve been thinking that the uptake of Vista hasn’t been as energetic as maybe the media made it seem initially. For months everyone sang the praises of “Longhorn” as it was once called, but when it was released it seemed to be met with nothing but apathy. This week, Microsoft basically admitted it’s failure.

          Vista promised the world and seemed to deliver a re-skinned XP. People were excited over the new interface, Aero, a new file management system and the early-adopters seemed to be the only people who actually followed through and bought it. There were two major events this week that The Enquirer picked up on that seem to indicate an admission of failure.

          #1 – Dell was allowed to start re-selling XP again
          This week Dell announced that it was going to return to offering XP as the operating system on home-desktop purchases. As it happens the second that Microsoft releases a new flagship product – the vendors are then *encouraged* (in a strong strong way) to ship with the new product. Microsoft make it *very* difficult to sell the old product in the face of the new one. Well, Dell have gained permission to ship XP once again.

          A classic case of a super-power losing control

          Truly powerful parties don’t make concessions. They don’t do deals and they don’t step backwards. Microsoft showed their inability to make everyone do what they wanted – possibly for the first time. Not a good sign. This indicates that Vista’s sales aren’t looking overly peachy.

          #2 – The “$3 Student Innovation Suite”
          In a desperate attempt to avoid pricing themselves out of the “third world market” (and give Linux a nice easy win), Microsoft announced the $3 Student Innovation Suite which is a low-feature bundle aimed at developing nations. This is purely in order to bring Microsoft into the running to influence “one billion of the five who are yet to experience the PC revolution”. Not a strong move in my eyes – desperate scrabbling for a bigger market.

          Vista has become widely known as Windows Millenium Edition 2 – which was a massive failure too

        • #2518727

          ms vista massive failure of all time

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms admits to failure

          “Vista is the biggest software development failure of all time, IBM’s office vision was the previous record holder, with $900 million spent? Vista has cost five or six billion,” the poster moaned.

          yep thats it what’s a few billions among friends

        • #2518726

          vista sham was revealed in start of 2006

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms vista massive failure of all time

          FAM: Vista SR Demo failure — And now you know the rest of the story …
          As I posted yesterday, I got a chance to check out the machine that Shanen used for the Financial Analysts Meeting demo. I confirmed that it was just what I suspected: An audio gain issue.

          If you watch the video clip on MSN Video you can see in the speech user interface that the microphone “volume” is very high. It pushes up into the red frequently while Shanen is speaking to the computer. That’s caused by the fact that the audio sub-system wasn’t respecting the audio gain settings we’ve asked it to use.

          This is a known bug in current builds, and has already been fixed by the audio team in their private builds in preparation for RTM.

          A little more on audio gain …

          Have you ever heard a car drive by that had the stereo blasting away, and the audio sounded absolutely horrible? In simple terms, this is caused by the system being set up incorrectly, and the system is experiencing a problem called clipping.

          Microphones and sound cards can have similar problems trying to convert the analog signal from the microphone element into a digital signal for use by software on the PC (for example: speech recognition software). That’s why it’s important to have the audio gain set correctly for the microphone and/or sound card that you’re using. That’s the whole point to the having the user run through our “Microphone Setup Wizard”. That piece of Windows Speech Recognition takes great care to analyze the sounds of your voice to properly set the audio input gain on the mic / sound card to eliminate clipping.

          The problem in this demo was simply a matter of the audio sub-system not respecting that audio gain “request” that WSR made. So effectively, all the audio data that was being received by WSR was being clipped, and thus was incredibly distorted.

          Here’s what Wikipedia says about clipping in digital signal processing:

          In digital signal processing, clipping occurs when the signal is restricted by the range of a chosen representation. For example in a system using 16-bit signed integers, 32767 is the largest positive value that can be represented, and if during processing the amplitude of the signal is doubled, sample values of 32000 should become 64000, but instead they are truncated to the maximum, 32767. Clipping is preferable to the alternative in digital systems ? wrapping occurs if the digital hardware is allowed to “overflow”, ignoring the most significant bits of the magnitude, and sometimes even the sign of the sample value, resulting in terrible clipping distortion of the signal.

          Why didn’t we catch that before Shanen went on stage?

          That’s a good question. The reality of the situation is that Shanen and the demo setup team were aware of these issues, and great care was taken to try and eliminate the possibility of this gain setting being a problem.

          Shanen practiced the demo a few times both off-stage and then again on-stage just prior to FAM starting. The whole demo was working perfectly several times.

          Unfortunately, the nature of this specific audio sub-system bug is that it’s intermittent. It worked great every single time. Right up until that one live demonstration — the one that counted. 😉

          It’s too bad that it didn’t go more smoothly. The analysts would have been very happy with WSR’s performance had they seen it working the way it normally works. Rest assured that we have the issue under control here in Redmond, and when Vista ships later this year, this audio gain issue will be a thing of the past.

          There’ll be more public demonstrations of WSR coming up in the near future. Then, we can finally show the world just how amazing Windows Speech Recognition really is!

          Filed under: In the News
          Comments
          # I’m sorry, I didn’t catch that
          Saturday, July 29, 2006 12:37 PM by Richard Sprague WebLog
          &nbsp;Rob Chambers thinks that demo problem at the Financial Analysts Meeting was&nbsp;an audio gain…
          # Krunk4Ever! » Blog Archive » Another Microsoft Blunder
          Sunday, July 30, 2006 4:41 AM by Krunk4Ever! ? Blog Archive ? Another Microsoft Blunder
          PingBack from http://www.krunk4ever.com/blog/?p=662
          # re: FAM: Vista SR Demo failure — And now you know the rest of the story …
          Sunday, July 30, 2006 8:38 AM by mrmckeb
          Sorry to hear that the demonstration didn’t work out. It would have been nice for the public to see the great progress of Vista.

          I first saw the clip from CNBC “On The Money” and they unfairly trashed the Microsoft team. I hope that you guys can show them how good it is next time – and if they were real reporters they would have tested it for themselves via a beta and seen that it DOES work.
          # Vijay shankar ganesh K » Blog Archives » Microsoft office voice wreckognition
          Monday, July 31, 2006 11:01 AM by Vijay shankar ganesh K ? Blog Archives ? Microsoft office voice wreckognition
          PingBack from http://blog.vijay.name/index.php/2006/07/30/microsoft-office-voice-wreckognition/
          # re: FAM: Vista SR Demo failure — And now you know the rest of the story …
          Monday, July 31, 2006 12:17 PM by
          you know the rest of the story

        • #2518720

          in reply heres one at you

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i don’t know what post your talking about

          Microsoft Vista is a failure
          Published November 27th, 2006 in Rants and Technology.
          It seems a lot of people (especially those at Microsoft) are constantly extolling all the virtues of the next Microsoft operating system to-be, Windows Vista.

          Am I really the only person who sees it as a dinosaur?

          Admittedly, I?m not the biggest fan of Microsoft software. I?ve dealt with Microsoft for far too long to trust pretty much anything they release. I have struggled with each and every piece of software they have ever released.

          Well, save for one: DOS.

          Mind you, operating systems were a lot simpler back then. They didn?t need to do much. They just needed to provide an environment in which things would work. But the problems with Vista started even back then. Remember the 640k barrier? The workarounds to use the higher memory?

          I?ll wager that the roots of DOS are still there. Sure, they rewrote the whole thing for Windows NT. But have you ever wondered why the requirements for the operating system keep getting larger and larger? Why you need more and more disk space to run it all? Windows XP is supposedly based on Windows NT (as was Server 2003), and I wonder how well all the changes are managed.
          It?s an operating system. It?s supposed to support everything else, not set an initial barrier to entry! There have been press releases about how powerful hardware needs to be in order to get the best experience out of Windows Vista. Any system bought within the last year is likely outta luck ? you don?t have the juice. That just strikes me either as gloriously poor support for the user, or collusion with hardware vendors. Since when do you need a graphics accelerator to view a Word document?

          Okay, I exaggerate ? it will run sans 64 MB of RAM on your video card ? but the statement still seems to baffle the mind. Does Microsoft not think that perhaps there is need to rewrite from the ground up?

          Take the most successful operating system in recent years: UNIX. Not just Linux, but also Mac OSX. The kernel is small. No graphics. It runs. Add on only what you need to make things work. It runs nicely. There are releases of Linux out there that at a glance look like Microsoft Windows. Mac OSX is based (loosely) on the Mach kernel from the vaunted (and lamented) NeXTStep operating system. There?s a reason Macs run sooooo nicely, and it ain?t just the hardware.

          C?mon, Microsoft, if you hope to compete on the desktop space, you need to think much more carefully about your foundation. Crappy foundations lead to crappy experiences.

          6 Responses to ?Microsoft Vista is a failure?
          Feed for this Entry Trackback Address

          ——————————————————————————–

          1 RapidFire
          Jan 27th, 2007 at 15:33
          It is a failure, look at the reviews at download.com on that thing, it?s stupid.

          And woah, $400+ for that thing? (check out my blog for an ironic pic on that price thing) So I spend what, 3 years mastering XP to make it stable enough so it doesn?t keep freezing over and over and crashing and so on, and now vista which users say has things moved around so that you have to rememorize where stuff is? Hell no.

          Plus you can skin xp with all that stuff out there now. It?s too late for that windows tilting feature to get that much good use of it, there?s probably some freeware out there that has some more efficient way of seeing what window is where anyways, and with firefox and other tabbed browsers (besides IEcrap7) who cares about tilting?

          And linux has some weird ability to not just tilt, but rotate windows in a cube form (like the borg, that was cool, heh).

          heh heh why not indeed

        • #2518719

          there’s room for one more

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to in reply heres one at you

          I?ve been holding off blogging on The Inquirer?s piece on Vista being a failure, but wanted to throw my 2 cents into the hat as it seems to be making the rounds.

          The premise of what The Inquirer is saying is the two most damning nails in the coffin:

          Dell was forced, by it?s users, to add Windows XP back to the available OS list when buying a new computer even though Microsoft puts a huge amount of pressure on OEMs to make adoption of Vista mandatory.
          Microsoft creates a Windows + Office bundle for like $3 in Asia to combat the horrific sales numbers. The idea here being similar to what they did in the 90s, making Windows easy-as-sin to pirate, so everyone got it on their machines. The problem here is that instead of using Vista as the viral entity here, they are sticking with Windows XP. Another declaration by Microsoft that Vista just isn?t ?there yet? enough to push it.
          So based on Microsoft?s own actions for one of the largest budding technical markets and user-demand, I?d have to say Vista was SOD (shit on delivery).

          My own experiences with running Vista have been on par with most other folks. It?s a confusing mess of crap. To the point that you just want to ignore it and wait for the next release? it really is trash.

          Update #1: Looks like Microsoft is offering upgrade-pricing to every single person that ever ran a beta or release-candidate of their OS. You know, cause it?s flying off the shelves.

          Update #2: According to Microsoft Vista sales are blowing up? interesting. Is this marketing doing it?s job or for real? If it?s for real, the number of crash reports being sent back to Microsoft I hope are going to find their way into SP1.

          6 Responses to ?Vista is a Failure – Microsoft?s Actions Agree?
          panj Says:

          April 25th, 2007 at 5:03 am
          Just one case but my experience with Vista has been successful. Only awaiting one driver upgrade (stat package) and am using all software with no issues. Aesthetically pleasing interface, great manager for video/music. bit of time to get used to interface but I would recommend, at least when buying a new machine which was my path (Dell XPS recent purchase).

          Riyad Kalla Says:

          April 25th, 2007 at 5:40 am
          panj,
          Have you had any stability issues with programs you are using that may not be completely vista compatible yet?

          Any 3d-driver issues? Sound card issues?

          panj Says:

          April 25th, 2007 at 8:48 am
          Cannot run SPSS version 15, patch on way this month. My machine is only 3 months old and configured by Dell with Vista so unlikely any problems with drivers, obviously. However, I have a lot of legacy software, ran Turbotax, etc. with no problems so far. I did have to download one driver for my home network?for the router?but very straightforward. Also, Dell provides Belkin cable for easy transfer from XP to Vista (eg. all my old tax forms came right up in new version on new machine!). Running a number of games with no problems either. Maybe just lucky.

          Riyad Kalla Says:

          April 25th, 2007 at 8:57 am
          panj,
          Thanks for following up? there is so much Vista bashing going on (and my own negative experiences) that I really want to hear more about the ?successful? side of things.

          Would you say you like Vista and it?s a usability improvement or are you just happy it?s not breaking on you?

          Do the security prompts start to get frustrating after a while?

          Any limitations?

          Has the reorganization of the different properties menus and Control Panel been frustrating at all to you?

          panj Says:

          April 26th, 2007 at 4:53 am
          1. I do prefer the interface to XP, not just happy it is not crashing. The aesthetics are attractive, other usability aspects are effective?upgrades with Media Center are very nice. If I had the XBOX 360 I would really maximize interface with multimedia options. Thinking hard on that option.

          2. Only ?security prompt? I need to change is actually from a Dell bundled product PC Penicillin I believe.

          3. The Dell platform I got is at 2MB memory and a significant video card?at work and for some reason can?t remember specifics! getting old I guess. For example, I am running a new game (C&C 3) at maximum resolution on a Gateway 22inch HD monitor?no slowdowns in game, etc., so I know I have a loaded system. I would hate to run Vista on less than 2mb given preference for max graphics.

          4. The reorg did take some time as I never do the tutorials, read the guides (unfortunately). For example, shutting down the system was not obvious from just clicking the start menu, had to find on another drop down. Also, learning Ofice 2007 new interfaces at same time so that was more of a challenge.

          Really like the transparencies aspect and the right border with the new items (forgot name) where you can customize display icons on news, time, etc. The community is really doing some creative work here to provide useres with all sorts of tailored options.

          Been great so far but I must say I was worried most on drivers for my network, but as I said, I had only to download one driver and was on my way.

          I do have to comment that MS is really seen as the big insensitive market bully and prompts a great deal of initial negative press. I do know that my worksite, however, has found some bugs with old legacy systems and will await some new drivers before even considering Vista. Also, cannot underestimate my easy experience being helped by getting a new machine configured by Dell to be compatible with Vista. Cheers and good luck.

        • #2518716

          ms doesn’t care one hoot about the poor consumer

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to there’s room for one more

          WITH TWO OVERLAPPING events, Microsoft admitted what we have been saying all along, Vista, aka Windows MeII, is a joke that no one wants. It did two unprecedented things this week that frankly stunned us. Dell announced that it would be offering XP again on home PCs.

          The second that Vista came out, Microsoft makes it very hard for you to sell anything other than MeII. It can?t do this on the business side because it would be laughed out the door, but for the walking sheep class, well, you take what you are shovelled. This is classic abusive monopoly behavior, Microsoft wrote the modern book on it.

          It pulled all the major OEMs in by twisting their arms with the usual methods, and they again all fell into line. Never before has anyone backpedalled on this, to do so would earn you the wrath of Microsoft. But Dell just did. This means that MeII sales are at least as bad as we think, the software and driver situation is just as miserable, and Dell had no choice but to buck the trend.

          If anyone thinks this is an act of atonement for foisting such a steaming pile on us, think again, it doesn?t care about the consumer. What happened is the OEMs revolted in the background and forced Microsoft?s hand. This is a big neon sign above MeII saying ?FAILURE?.

          well don’t let me say it i was right

        • #2518709

          vista is a failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to there’s room for one more

          The Inquirer would have you think so (Microsoft admits Vista failure). Dell has bowed to the lack of consumer enthusiasm about Vista (especially those laptop users dismayed at power management issues, but people whose applications suddenly break won?t be amused either), reinstating Windows XP availability on their customer line-ups. This is, at best, a grace period of one year, since Microsoft currently plans to stop XP sales entirely in 2008.

          They have a point there. I have a problem with their assertion that the $3 Windows edition is another admission of failure. True, the stronger anti-piracy controls on Vista means that Microsoft?s closing one eye on piracy no longer reduces Linux?s price advantage as much. But there?s the point of government tie-in: to be eligible for the cheap Windows licenses, governments have to step in and subsidize the hardware!

          So Microsoft might have a weakened hold on its current OEMs, but it is hoping to gain entire countries as new clients. In which case the price drop cannot be compared against the full price of Windows, but what Dell, HP etc. gets charged (less than $50 a piece, I?m sure). An order of magnitude less. Which is a side issue ? Microsoft is not currently gaining anything from those pirated copies anyway (apart from mindshare). The main worry is that another generation will be locked into Microsoft products, and want to bet there?s a clause in the fine print promoting the so-called Open XML over Open Doc?

          theres no stopping the pirates.

        • #2518708

          its ms own admission

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista is a failure

          However good you think it is. Microsoft Vista is a failure. So much so that Dell have put XP back on their computers again. Is it case of Vista coming out too early? I think it is. With hardware lacking and the incentive to move to Vista is not very attractive. Who wants and needs to shell out the high cost of Vista for worse performance and no real directX10 games to make you want to buy this. No ATI cards for you to play the DirectX10 games on. Well who blames us for sticking with XP for the time being.
          well need i say more

        • #2518706

          ms is only itself to blame

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to there’s room for one more

          Microsoft admits Vista failure
          Microsoft admitted what we have been saying all along, Vista, aka Windows Me Two (Me II), is a joke that no one wants. It did two unprecedented things this week that frankly stunned us. Dell announced
          that it would be offering XP again on home PCs. The second that Vista came out,Microsoft
          makes it very hard for you to sell anything other than Me II. It can’t do this
          on the business side because it would be laughed out the door, but for the walking sheep class, well, you take what you are shovelled.

          This is classic abusive monopoly behaviour, Microsoft wrote the modern book on it. It pulled all the major OEMs in by twisting their arms with the usual methods, and they again all fell into line. Never before has anyone backpedalled on this, to do so would earn you the wrath of Microsoft. But Dell just did. This means that Me II sales are at least as bad as we think, the software and driver situation is just as miserable, and Dell had no choice but to buck the trend. If anyone thinks this is an act of atonement for foisting such a steaming pile on us, think again, it doesn’t care about the consumer. What happened is, the OEMs revolted
          in the background and forced Microsoft’s hand. This is a big neon sign above Me II saying ‘FAILURE’. Blink blink blink. OK, Me II won’t fail, Microsoft has OEMs whipped and threatened into a corner, it will sell, but you can almost hear the defectors marching toward Linux.

          This is a watershed. The other equally monumental Me II failure? Gates in China launching a $3 version of bundled XP. Why is this not altruism? Well, it goes back to piracy and how it helped enforce the MS monopoly. If you can easily pirate Windows, Linux has no price advantage, they both cost zero. With Me II, Microsoft made it very hard to pirate. It is do-able, you can use the BIOS hack and probably
          a host of others, but the point is, it raised the bar enough so lots of people have to buy it.

        • #2518703

          DELL ADMITS TO VISTA FAILURE

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms is only itself to blame

          Dell brings back XP on home systems
          After adding it back as an option for small businesses, direct seller offers older OS on consumer machines in response to demand.
          By Ina Fried
          Staff Writer, CNET News.com

          Published: April 19, 2007, 11:04 AM PDT
          Last modified: April 19, 2007, 3:56 PM PDT
          TalkBack E-mail Print del.icio.us Digg this

          update Dell is bringing XP back.

          Amid significant customer demand, the computer maker said on Thursday that it has returned to offering the older Windows version as an option on some of its consumer PCs.

          Like most computer makers, Dell switched nearly entirely to Vista-based systems following Microsoft’s mainstream launch of the operating system in January. However, the company said its customers have been asking for XP as part of its IdeaStorm project, which asks customers to help the company come up with product ideas.

          “We heard you loud and clear on bringing the Windows XP option back to our Dell consumer PC offerings,” Dell said on its Ideas in Action page. Users get to vote on various suggestions, and the notion of bringing back XP got 10,000 “points,” making it among the most popular requests but well below top picks such as adding Linux or OpenOffice.org to its PCs.

          Windows XP systems became scarce, but not impossible to find, after Vista arrived. For example, Hewlett-Packard said it would continue selling XP on some machines aimed at small and midsize businesses, while CompUSA still stocks a couple of business-oriented XP systems in its retail stores. Lenovo has also continued shipping XP on many of its business systems.

          Starting immediately, Dell said, it is adding XP Home and Professional as options on four Inspiron laptop models and two Dimension desktops.

          Earlier this month, Dell added XP back as an option for small-business customers, but at the time, it said it would not add it back for home users.

          “Dell does not have plans to launch Windows XP for home users as the preference, and demand is for the ‘latest and greatest’ technology, which includes Windows Vista,” Tom West, director of small-business marketing at Dell, said in a blog posting at the time.

          Analysts say Dell’s move is not a good sign for Windows Vista.

          “That there is remaining demand from some segment of (the) consumer market points to the inability of Vista to resonate with consumers,” IDC analyst Richard Shim said.

          There was an initial bump for Vista sales right after its launch, Shim said, but some of that may have been from consumers who delayed purchasing a PC late last year. Sales in the later part of the first quarter were less strong, he said. The overall response to Vista will become clearer throughout the year, he said.

          Current Analysis research director Samir Bhavnani said most of the demand for XP he sees is from small businesses, rather than consumers.

          “They know that XP works,” Bhavnani said. “It’s not that they don’t want to upgrade to Vista. They just don’t want to upgrade to Vista yet.”

          In a sense, the issue isn’t the relatively small number of PC buyers demanding XP, but it’s whether Vista is having any effect on the PC market as a whole.

          In announcing PC sales data, Gartner said this week that Vista’s launch “had very limited impact on overall worldwide shipment demand on a quarterly basis.”

          Bhavnani blamed some of the lackluster results on a lack of marketing, noting he sees more ads for Apple than for Vista.

          “It’s been a very soft launch,” Bhavnani said. “I think you will see Vista create additional demand for PCs in the back half of this year.”

          Microsoft product manager Michael Burk said in a statement: “Dell is responding appropriately to a small minority of customers that had this specific request. But, as they have said before, the vast majority of consumers want the latest and greatest technology, and that includes Windows Vista.”

          Now on News.com
          Tesla’s roadster meets the engineers
          Urban farming barges ahead in New York
          Week in review: The revolution will be posted

          Extra: A half century of lunar exploration

          Video: Web developers sound off on Silverlight The software maker has said it will stop selling Windows XP to large PC makers by January. Smaller computer sellers, known as system builders, will be able to sell XP machines for an additional year.

          In a statement last week, Microsoft said such a move is normal after a new operating system comes out.

          “Windows Vista is safer, easier to use, better connected and more entertaining than any operating system we’ve ever released, and we’re encouraged by the positive customer response we’ve seen to date,” the company said. “It’s standard practice to allow OEMs, retailers and system builders to continue offering the previous version of Windows for a certain period of time after a new version is released.”

          Dell knows that vista is a heap of crap.

    • #3228165

      special report on vista

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Special Report

      Vista Deployment ? As in Hollywood, Image Is Everything

      Stuart J. Johnston

      September 11, 2006

      With the debut of Windows Vista Release Candidate 1 (RC1) last week, Microsoft has begun the final test phase before releasing its new desktop operating system to the marketplace. From previous experience, it?s clear many IT shops will spend as many as 18 months testing the final code before moving forward. But now is the time to begin planning how to best deploy Microsoft?s first major upgrade to Windows in five years.

      Additionally, there are always early adopters who want to get in at the bleeding edge of the technology curve in hopes of gaining competitive advantage over rival companies.

      One prime example: Microsoft?s internal IT department ? in the company?s longstanding tradition of ?eating its own dogfood? ? has already garnered plenty of experience deploying Vista over the past three or four months. MSIT began deploying Vista to users? PCs with the beginning of Beta 2 last spring. To date, they have rolled out more than 25,000 copies.

      Key to Microsoft?s own deployment and, the company believes, to simplifying rollouts for corporate customers, is a new system imaging format called Windows Image format or WIM as well as tools that work with it. Unlike previous Windows releases, WIM enables administrators to deploy a single system image for virtually all PCs.

      ?While we don?t really know quite yet whether the reality will live up to the promises, [WIM] should certainly save IT a lot of time in prepping the images, and [constitute] a substantial savings in time managing multiple images,? said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. ?Up until now, it?s been very difficult to deploy [new operating systems].?

      Vista?s Image Manager tool enables IT managers to compress binaries into one file that?s easy to manipulate — it?s componentized and can be used offline.
      ta mick

    • #3228163

      vista deployment

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      We can essentially move to one global image per major platform such as x86 or x64,? said Chad Lewis, program manager in charge of Vista deployment in MSIT, in an interview. The same image can be deployed to both tablet and non-tablet PCs as well as both desktops and laptops ? thus eliminating custom images, which are complicated to manage.

      For Microsoft, that?s a big deal. The company has 340,000 PCs with 121,000 separate user accounts in 98 different countries or regions and a total of 441 buildings. The largest numbers of those are in the US, but the second largest are in Japan. So, as in any global corporation, localization is an important detail.

      ?WIM allows us to go to two images worldwide ? x86 and x64 ? with all the localization . . . It makes our versioning control easier and [results in] smaller binaries.?

      The same is true with language packs for the new operating system. ?[WIM] lets you componentize the language and localize it at install time ?on the fly?,? Lewis added. That applies to both the default language as well as the user interface language. ?You can have English as the default and then inject Japanese into the merge.?

      WIM also supports unattended scripting, another important capability for reducing the amount of time IT administrators have to spend per deployment. ?It?s not just the raw binaries that need to be compiled and installed ? the bulk of the install time is the copy time from the server.?

      Microsoft has also done a few more things to make Vista deployment easier for enterprises. For instance, a new Windows Deployment Services updates and replaces Windows Server 2003?s Remote Installation Services. Coming in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 2 (SP2), WDS provides a pre-boot execution environment (PXE ? pronounced ?pixie?) for remote PCs.

      Basically, WDS updates RIS to enable remote deployment of Vista — in fact, WDS is required for Vista deployment. One of the enhancements Lewis noted is a full graphical user interface mode. It provides native support for Windows Imaging format. It also includes a snap-in for the Microsoft Management Console.

      ?WDS will [automatically] install users? credentials into the correct domain [which is] a big jump ahead of RIS,? Lewis said. Windows Server 2003 SP2 began ?privately? beta testing in July. (See ?Microsoft Reveals Additions to Windows Server 2003 SP2,? August 3, 2006.) It is slated for release later this year.

      For new PCs that are being brought in to replace aging computers, MSIT is using capabilities in Vista itself to migrate users? applications and settings to the new machines. Windows Easy Transfer is a wizard-based tool for migrating individual users? files and settings ? a simpler to use tool than the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard that it replaces.

      ?It?s seamless and the user doesn?t have to do anything [and] they end up with a new OS,? Lewis said. Microsoft also has the enterprise-oriented User State Migration Tool (USMT) in work. Version 3, which is currently in beta test, was designed for migrating users? settings from Windows XP or Windows 2000 to Vista on an enterprise basis.

      Among its features, USMT saves users? state data to a server and restores it to the desktop after installation and also upgrades users state data and applications in place.

      ?[WIM and WDS] should reduce the need for special tools for deployment . . . Though we don?t have any data yet, they may be good enough to deploy Vista without third-party tools,? Enderle added.

      No third party tools just yet oh haha why not!
      ta mick

      Ta mick

    • #3228156

      vista installment of 64 bit

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      From Paul Pherotts super window’s
      He says “OK, there is one caveat. If you try to install an x64 version of Windows Vista, well, God help you. I have no idea what Microsoft was thinking with these products, but after getting over my initial euphoria at how good the hardware support was, I descended quite quickly into software compatibility hell. So unless I mention it explicitly, all the good news here applies solely to standard 32-bit (x86) Vista versions. The x64 stuff is still a nightmare. My guess is that it will always be a nightmare. So unless you have some specific workstation-type needs for more than 4 GB of RAM and very specific applications, please just skip out on x64 Vista versions entirely. There’s no happy ending there and your sanity hangs in the balance.”
      So stay away from 64 bit o/S for a while.

      Ta mick

      ta mick

    • #3228154

      Nero 7.2.7.0

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Nero 7.2.7.0 cannot install on vista by a web installer>You can install it from a cd.
      Ta Mick

    • #3228152

      Adobe photoshop

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      On vista rc1 there are problems that some of the elements will not work.Windows Vista RC1 is a huge improvement over previous Vista versions, and compatibility plays a big part in that success.More needs to be done to show that the os is more compatible.

      ta mick

      • #3228026

        As I remember Adobe photoshop

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to Adobe photoshop

        that worked with 2K would not work with XP- so your point is.
        Mike

        • #3227702

          point is that the software is not

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to As I remember Adobe photoshop

          compatible as elemnts with vista will not work properly.
          ta mick

        • #3220342

          Point is

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to point is that the software is not

          Vista has not been released yet. Why would an application need to work NOW with software that has not been released yet?

          I bet there are loads of programs that don’t work with Longhorn Server, the next MAC OS and the newest Linux pre-releases.

          gsaravin – hmmm I know that name from somewhere…thought you dropped out after year 1 of the undergrad as you could not hack it?

    • #3228132

      Linux – Ubuntu

      by ronaldmcatee ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Windows in general is crap! I have had enough with Microsoft and their operating systems! I had never used Linux before and had a big learning curve, but after loading a few versions of Linux based operating systems I have fell in Love with Ubuntu. It loads easy and seems to have most of the programs I need and use as a package… best of all is that it is FREE, and the working group actually supports the product!! If everyone would just give it a try, then we could make Microsoft just and GO AWAY!

      • #3228774

        Ubuntu ?!? I completely disagree …

        by moira ·

        In reply to Linux – Ubuntu

        If “everyone would give it a try” – well, I did more than give Ubuntu a try and I just can’t let your “loads easy” comment pass.

        Since this thread:

        http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=189966

        I have tried Kubuntu, which did exactly the same thing. Sorry, but operating systems have to be reliable enough to install in the first place, and at least Vista does that.

        • #3227289
          Avatar photo

          Just where you trying to install it ?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Ubuntu ?!? I completely disagree …

          A 10 GIG HDD split in 2 with XP & SUSE so where where you trying to fit Ubuntu?

          I’ve installed numerous versions of Ubuntu without a problem and though it’s not my Nix of Choice it’s installs easily without too many problems.

          With Windows you install the base OS and then all the necessary drivers and then the software for the hardware and when that is all finished you can start to install your software. That’s hardly easy or fast when everything is said & done either.

          Col
          [i]Edited for a typo[/i]

        • #3229191

          I got rid of Suse, then tried my dual core PC

          by moira ·

          In reply to Just where you trying to install it ?

          Clearly, I wasn’t about to fit XP, Suse and Ubuntu on one 10 gig hard drive. I had hoped to replace Suse with Ubuntu.

          However, with all the problems the laptop gave me, I eventually partitioned off a section of my main PC, a dual core Athlon with two large hard drives and plenty of RAM to more than cope with Ubuntu. That’s when I got as far as “OK … booting the kernel” and no further.

          I’m sorry but in my case it didn’t install easily without too many problems. I do have a third PC I could put it on but that already dual boots between Vista and XP and I don’t want to confuse it with a third OS.

        • #3229164
          Avatar photo

          It could be something to do with the AMD Dual Core

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to I got rid of Suse, then tried my dual core PC

          CPU as I’ve never had a problem installing it on any system, but to be fair most have been Intel and many Dual Processor P3’s or newer.

          Because it’s not my Nix of choice I haven’t tried it in place of Debian on my main Workstation though a Dual Xeon setup which cops a lot of work and is constantly running.

          I actually see Ubuntu as an entry level Nix for beginners but it may have some issues with the Dual Core AMD Architecture which gave you the problems.

          Col

        • #3205075

          Symantec V MS

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to It could be something to do with the AMD Dual Core

          Have you noticed lately the news story about this woman in
          europe proved that she can hack in to the vista kernel very easily of which Ms completely denied it. Symantec is counter testing vista & has found
          heaps of critical problems on security & Ms simply denying it.Opens up the cotroversy of third party software using MS vista operating System.I fully agree & support symantec in saying that vista has got major faults despite that we have assurances
          that assure us to the contrary.

          ta mick

        • #3204999

          And now you resort to lies

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Symantec V MS

          I ask that you provide links to support what you just claimed about a Symantec statement that “Vista has got major faults”.

          No they didn’t!

          http://www.symantec.com/vista/index.jsp

          Don’t you have something better to do, like go watch SpongeBob SquarePants? That’s about your speed.

        • #3204710

          look who’s lying

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Symantec V MS

          Symantec condemns Vista kernel security
          By Derek Sooman, TechSpot.com
          Published: August 11, 2006, 5:00 AM EST

          The kernel is the fundamental part of an operating system. It is a piece of software responsible for providing secure access to the machine’s hardware to various computer programs – it manages the system’s resources and facilitates communication between hardware and software. It is the heart of the operating system.

          The kernel has become the new target of malware authors, who seek to alter the way in which the kernel operates. For example, rootkits operate in so-called “kernel space” and allow the malware author to hide files and system processes from the system and security software. Thusly, a virus or something equally horrid might be running on your system, but you will not see it in task manager, and you will not see the program?s files on your hard drive. Naturally, this is a cause of great concern.

          Security is high on the agenda for Microsoft in their new operating system, Windows Vista, and so they have turned their attention to kernel security in a big way. They have applied new security features to the kernel which they believe will make it much harder for malware such as rootkits to operate.

          However, Symantec has released a report outlining some weaknesses in the kernel protection mechanisms built into Windows Vista. They claim that features in the Windows Vista kernel obstruct innovations by antivirus and other security applications. If security vendors cannot access the kernel, they claim, it cuts down on their ability to innovate new security products.

          “These new technologies, along with Microsoft?s unwillingness to make compromises in this area, have serious implications for the security industry as a whole,” said Oliver Friedrichs, director of emerging technologies in Symantec Security Response.

          “If Microsoft wants to make Vista more secure, it should provide equal access to the platform that its own developers have to ensure that security vendors can continue to innovate on the platform, and to ensure that consumers and original equipment manufacturers can continue to choose the best security solutions for the platform. This has always been the case with prior operating systems.”
          Furthermore, Symantec claims that malware authors have already successfully demonstrated ways to circumvent Vista’s kernel security features. All that is being done, they claim, is that Microsoft is making it harder for Symantec and other similar firms to create security solutions; Vista will not be safer from the blackhats as a result.

          [

        • #3205006

          Thanks Hal

          by moira ·

          In reply to It could be something to do with the AMD Dual Core

          Nobody else has suggested a possible reason – anyway I’ve downloaded Mepis and will try that.

        • #3204757
          Avatar photo

          Actually this just cropped up today

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Thanks Hal

          On the Debian users forum apparently some people are having issues with Dual Core CPU’s and installing Debian, so it could be more widespread than first thought. Admittedly most are complaining about NB installs where the BIOS is naturally less well structured and far more limited but it might be something to look out for. Currently the People on the Debian Forum are insisting that if you enter BIOS and make sure that the BIOS is reconsigning both Cores the OS will load but a couple of people with Toshiba NB’s haven’t found that is a workable option.

          It could be the Chip sets driving the CPU’s or something far more basic but as yet it’s not something that I’ve run into.

          Col

    • #3228109

      OK Time for my 2 cents worth…..

      by pdschofield ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      After reading about half of this thread, it looks like the same arguments are being reiterated constantly by the same people – if not, I apologise to whoever is concerned, but I got fed up of reading the same quotes time and time again.

      My take on the Vista position is at the moment you have to install it for what it is – Currently Release Candidate 1, it is NOT for a production environment, it is for testing. Microsoft are putting it out there for us to test as there is no way that they can economically test every one of the millions of potential hardware and software combinations that the final relase of Vista will be exposed to. Microsoft want the feeedback, good or bad to rectify any problems or issues before final release.

      Seeing supposedly knowledgable people discuss this issue with the closed minded manner that people discuss sports or religion just makes me wonder if the ‘Computer Geek’ image – who has hardly any social skills and talks in technical language that practically no one can understand – is completly justified.

      s for those of us who market ourselves as ‘Consultants’ surely our position should be that of open minded competency. There is no perfect solution, if there was we would all be using it. Everything has its pros and cons. We should be using our position as learned advisors to ensure that the solution that meets a clients needs best is implimented. It takes a great deal of courage for a consultant to tell a client that they do not know the ins and outs of a proposed solution, but here is a consultant who does. I for one would rather have a happy non client than an unhappy client.
      Let the Flames Begin………

      • #3228030

        Well balanced

        by onbliss ·

        In reply to OK Time for my 2 cents worth…..

        …post. Good to know there are still professionals like you, out there.

      • #3205040

        Have you seen the latest controversy

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to OK Time for my 2 cents worth…..

        of Ms V symantec Of which concerns the basic fact that the vista kernel is quite easily hacked into.It opens up the fact that Ms has been lying & stalling for time that there are real major fault’s with vista that it doesn’t want the consumer to know it is in complete denial about it’s vista op system & it’s associated releases.I think MS will learn a valuable lesson in that if it doesn’t deliver the goods it’s going to loose sales,credibility as a major operating system
        provider.Allready companies like symantec & google
        are questioning MS about the quality of the vista system.

        ta mick

      • #3204870

        another 2 cents

        by jeyost ·

        In reply to OK Time for my 2 cents worth…..

        Based on my totally subjective use of Vista RC1 over the past week or so. I believe that it is now and will hopefully continue to be an improvement over Windows XP. It is not a revolutionary change but it does seem to be fairly stable.

        I had trouble right clicking to rename a file, stopping a print job in process across a network and was unable to install Nero with this beta version but hope those problems will be addressed in a future release. (a more knowledgeable friend tells me that you can’t easily interrupt a print job thats already gone to the printer on any OS, but it seems I was able to do that with my Win2k box on occasion)

        Anyway I’m glad Microsoft added a chess program to their list of available games and IE7 seems to download faster with fewer issues than IE6. Deepburn works fine with Vista RC1 for burning DVDs and old Dos friendly games from pre 1996 are able to run at least as well as they did under XP. {specifically – Ascendancy and a couple of old MS EP games: Dr BlakJak, Rodent’s Revenge etc.)

        It does take up considerably more hard drive space over 9gb of the 20gb HD on my test machine but runs ok with 512mb sdram, a 1.8ghz(256k) P4 CPU and tolerates the Vanta 16mb video card even though some of the apps and desktop themes require directx 9 compatibility.

        Untweaked performance was notably snappier than Ubuntu 6.06 on similar hardware and while I would welcome a worthy competitor capable of running all of my windows and dos applications I do not believe that Microsoft’s continued dominance will be jeopardized by the final release of Vista.

    • #3228069

      u’re wrong.

      by lavinmansukhani ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      this is beta. the vista site clearly states the requirements, if u dont have the resources then dont install it.
      its good that its not backward compatiable. that way legacy applications
      show me one security hole.
      i have vista on my pc and it has given me no problems and it works fine.

      • #3228039

        Biostar Fan Control

        by moira ·

        In reply to u’re wrong.

        I’ve now installed RC1 64 bit edition which won’t even install the CD containing the Biostar SFF fan control program, never mind run it! It seems that Vista will only install programs with signed drivers as well ….

        This is a major disadvantage as I don’t want to run the computer I’ve installed Vista on with the fans spinning at 100% all the time, apart from the energy waste it’s noisier.

        I had a program called SpeedFan recommended, however this too needs a signed driver. IMHO we’re miles away from a usable operating system, even now RC1 is out.

        • #3228029

          The main reason your having this problem

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Biostar Fan Control

          is the drivers do need to be designed for Vista 64 and signed so MS is sure there are no surprises with the drivers.
          Mike
          PS Fan control needs 64 bit drivers.

    • #3228766

      If I ever had a reason to disregard everything one person has said. . . . .

      by maxwell edison ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      …you’ve given it to me, and you’re the person. What a loser!

      • #3205051

        Current Controversy of Symantec V MS

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to If I ever had a reason to disregard everything one person has said. . . . .

        Proves what i’ve been saying that vista still is crap Ms has not gone deep enough & produced a polished product.It has produced rc 1 which has some stability but there are still some more faults with it.Ms is quite happy to go ahead & release a product
        that it fools everyone into thinking that it is ready.Symantec has proven that the vista kernel is easily hackable.Also don’t expect vista to work properly if you don’t have the right software/hardware cofiguration for vista to work
        properly. Not only this theres hardly any driver software around.I have found lately that Vista is slow loading & still has stability problems of which you can’t brush aside.You can fool some of the people some of the time But not all the people all the time!
        Ta mick

        • #3205017

          You only reinforce my previous comment

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Current Controversy of Symantec V MS

          You obviously have an axe to grind with Microsoft; you obviously are not taking into consideration what “beta” means; you obviously are not addressing comments other people have made, but rather repeating the same old silly rhetoric; and you obviously can’t put together a string of articulate sentences.

          To heed your advice about how to approach MS Vista would be like heeding a ten-year old’s advice on how to handle money.

          Get a life, dude.

        • #3205010

          By the way, you’re obviously. . . . .

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Current Controversy of Symantec V MS

        • #3204986

          Um, Maxwell? Did you bother to read many of the postings?

          by daveo2000 ·

          In reply to By the way, you’re obviously. . . . .

          Before you get too high on your horse, check out the first quarty of this topic. Much of it was devoted to getting garwin to say something intelligent. We have gotten past that, way past.

          If you really want to add something useful here, catch up and THEN toss in your cookies.

        • #3204911

          Hey Daveo

          by maxwell edison ·

          In reply to Um, Maxwell? Did you bother to read many of the postings?

          If I want to comment on a message, with or without reading everyone else’s comment first, I’ll do it. If you have have a problem with that, it’s your problem, not mine. It seems to me that it’s you sitting high on a horse — or in your case, an ass.

        • #3204845

          Actually I have read all the posting even tho gsarine

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Um, Maxwell? Did you bother to read many of the postings?

          has started to put a little more thought into his postings-but he keeps on posting out of date proof(plus he even leaves out things that may be pertant esp if he disagrees with it) and he keeps on saying that everybody who disagrees with him is wrong and basically we don’t know what we are talking about. Plus he keeps saying about proof that he says a certain site has then does not share the url.
          Mike
          Mike

    • #3203163

      The sun has it’s spots (even WinXP sp2)

      by local support ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Two years ago I acqierd a new PC with OEM WinXPh service pack 1. The first year I did’n unpack it, because I was more confident and happy with my old rig, 233 MHz and Win98 (first edition).

      My old rig crasched, and I was forced to start using my WinXP. According to some critics XP is just a face lift and cosmetics on top of a heap of bugs.

      I do not agree with them.

      One thing is puzzling though.
      I cannot use the find-file function to search my harddrive for files contaning a specified string.

      \Local support

    • #3204612

      Actually Maxwell He’s not lying but

      by michael l hereid sr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      As usual he does not drill down to the actual first report which was on Network world where MS answered the reportby saying “Microsoft welcomed the report, but said it was out of date. The report studies Windows Vista Community Technical Preview (CTP) Build 5365, released in April, and Microsoft said it has fixed “the majority” of the issues outlined in the report since then.”
      As usual gsarine will show something that proves what he wants but then he never investigates further because it may not meet his view.
      Mike

    • #3140833
      Avatar photo

      OK it’s now official

      by hal 9000 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      MS AU at least has the release date laid out for Office 2007 & Vista it’s in my area 8 November 06.

      While they are not as yet taking bookings for the release they have the venue booked and with the official notification that I received today they add a notation to your Calender in Office Outlook.

      So instead of laying back enjoying my Birthday this year I’ll be at another MS Product Release and take the better part of an entire day to watch all the promotional material that they push out. OH well I suppose after it’s finished I can sneak home and relax with a few drinks. 😀

      Col

    • #3139804

      Lesson About Betas

      by rkuhn040172 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      http://tinyurl.com/nlgqp

      Not knocking Linux, just a lesson for gsaravin about betas…that is why they are called betas.

      • #3139772

        thanks for the lesson smart guy

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Lesson About Betas

        i know what they are & i for one have not been taken in by all the bells & whistles.One thing’s for sure that i’m surprised how ms can do basically what it wants & still release an unpolished product with major faults.
        I for one will not be upgrading to vista for a long time!
        ta mick

        • #3139730

          There You Go…

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to thanks for the lesson smart guy

          You admit that you will upgrade eventually though:

          “I for one will not be upgrading to vista for a long time!”

          After trashing Vista for weeks now, you finally admit that you will use it…as we all expected.

        • #3141292

          as an evaluator of operating systems

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to There You Go…

          no i will not take up vista in it’s current form unless drastic things are done to make it more stable & compatible.Then & then will i take it up if there are any tangible befits if any.But like many people i have doubts.
          ta mick

      • #3139766

        speech recognition in vista needs improvement

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Lesson About Betas

        a study has shown that virtually 1 in 10 words are wrong in the speech recognition software.MS did promise to work on it to improve speech recognition but alas time is ticking away to no avail.This was a nice gesture like everything else only to be ditched.
        ta ms mick

        • #3139748

          I see what your saying but where is the study

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to speech recognition in vista needs improvement

          As I said before where is the proof.
          Ta,Mike

        • #2501822

          wellmichael how do we know that you might

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I see what your saying but where is the study

          bewudupcf in disguise.He fits your decription you can be vitreous at times,come out & spill the beans you are wdupcf or are you going to tell me f off.
          tamick

        • #2501823

          wellmichael how do we know that you might

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I see what your saying but where is the study

          bewudupcf in disguise.He fits your decription you can be vitreous at times,come out & spill the beans you are wdupcf or are you going to tell me f off.
          tamick

        • #3139731

          Really?

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to speech recognition in vista needs improvement

          Thought you weren’t taken in by all the bells and whistles?

          I would consider speech recognition as a bell and whistle at this point in time since there isn’t really a product on the market at all that does it well.

        • #3202933

          Although I have never used it

          by w2ktechman ·

          In reply to Really?

          I have been told by several people that Dragon Naturally Speaking is a good SW for voice recognition.

        • #2538228

          3rd Party CSR Dragon NaturallySpeaking also slower

          by markungewitter ·

          In reply to speech recognition in vista needs improvement

          Well, for people who really need speech recognition, it’s sad that Dragon NaturallySpeaking9, which is a wonderful program, runs slower on Vista than it does on XP.
          Personally, I’m holding onto XP for as long as possible. By then, DNS9 will run faster on Linux than it does even on XP. How? CodeWeavers or WINE, which runs Windows programs on Linux using just a minimum of resources.

      • #3139764

        firefox 2 release

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Lesson About Betas

        The release isn’t expected to introduce any new features or major functionally but it will improve stability and fix bugs that have been found in the still-under-development Firefox 2.0 release. If you tried it let us know what you think of it.
        ta mick

      • #3139762

        problems still dog vista bark!

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Lesson About Betas

        Those issues include upgrade compatibility from Windows XP and final code updates for Internet Explorer, along with some other applications.
        ta mick

    • #3138492

      Vista is weird

      by vinitogupta ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I agree with what u say, I installed a Vista RC1 evaluation edition got from microsoft just to try, but eats all my resources and freezes my system, eventhough i have best configuration system…I recommed people not to use vista….its really a weird….

    • #3138450

      VISTA is a BETA Still

      by samson99tx ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I have tested the last 2 BETA’s for VISTA, and I am currently on the RC1 – 5600 build.
      A BETA build is a sample.. a test, give it to select users to find what breaks, and give feedback. Overall, I like what VISTA has to offer. Far more control over network security, user control security, user error, far better help files, where help files have been populated, and far more efficient documentation for mid level PC users on “how do I do this?”.

      Overall, the potential for VISTA can only be improved by BETA testers who contribute to postive feedback. Just griping and complaining that it doesn’t work, doesn’t solve anything.

      No software is ever “perfect”. End Users are the ones who help shape how software should look and feel, and what results are expected.
      Personally, I like the direction that VISTA is going. I sent in almost 100 “issues” my first week of the 2nd BETA, and only 30 so far of RC1.

      I like it! No Complaints if they fix the bugs that I have found when they release the final.

      • #3138379
        Avatar photo

        Just one observation here

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to VISTA is a BETA Still

        The way to improve any Beta copy of any product isn’t to provide Positive Feedback but to provide feedback about things that [b]Don’t Work Properly if at all![/b]

        The RC1 is much better in the 32 Bit version at least though personally I’m still not sure about the 64 Bit version but considering that the product launch is already set in stone locally here on the 8 November 2006 I would have to imagine that the RC1 version with a few tweaks is going to be very close to the production version as MS will have to have the product at the pressing plants very soon to meet that release deadline.

        Currently I have 8 machines running Vista all as test rigs varying in configuration and while the 32 Bit version works fairly well though I notice that the RC1 has dumped some of the more useful features of the Beta 2 Version the 64 Bit version is a totally different story. It lacks the ability to drive many currently available bits of hardware that should be usable with it things like Video Capture Cards and TV Tuners which as a [b]Multi Media[/b] experience is not a good thing and more importantly 64 Bit is and should be now the way to go with a drop off of 32 Bit Applications becoming available.

        When I compare the 64 Bit RC1 of Vista it’s about as usable as the 64 Bit Version of XP or 2003 but way behind the 64 Bit Nix’s that are currently available. MS still has a long way to go to get what should be the basis off all their new software to the Production Stage where it will be in Full Time Use.

        Col

      • #3138369

        MS is releasing this in November!

        by jmgarvin ·

        In reply to VISTA is a BETA Still

        So what you see in RC1 is pretty much what you’ll see in the production version. I can say RC1 is an improvement (in some ways) to Beta2, but it still needs a LOT of love.

        MS should just push back the release date and push it out when it is done.

    • #3140047

      Say What?

      by pmuller1 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Maybe you should’ve used a spell and punctuation checker on your message before you sent it. With no spaces after commas and period, no capitalization at the beginning of sentances, etc, it looks like you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about……much less being “still right”.
      In using the Vista Beta, I realize it is a work in progress, but I look forward to the final release.

      • #3141385
        Avatar photo

        The Business release is set for November 06

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Say What?

        I’m actually already booked into the local product launch on 8 November 2006 and the domestic release is sometime around February 2007.

        So with the current RC1 5600 Build I can not see many changes coming through before the RTM product gets sent to the pressing plants if it hasn’t already gone there.

        In about 1 month MS is supposed to have copies of this Business Application available to all it’s resellers who supply the Small Business sector and places like Dell, HP, IBM and their like. So the big builders should already have the release copies available to them so that they can start to slipstream the required data to the Restore CD or Partitions that they supply with their machines.

        Col

        • #3141344

          Not ready yet

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to The Business release is set for November 06

          There will be another interm build released to about 50,000 to 100,000 testers. I hope I’m one of them. So far Build 5728 looks real good.
          Mike

        • #3141327

          maybe, maybe not

          by arizmendi ·

          In reply to Not ready yet

          The latest RC1 build lost my on-board NIC driver two times (during installation, and during running). I had to install the driver manually both times. Beta 2 installed the driver automatically fine. Also, Nero 6 blows up when I click “install” – it gets “undefined error”. Finally, the “import favorites” wizard for IE really sucks. RC1’s a little rocky yet, and seems to have regressed in some areas. This is the latest RC1 as of 10/1.

      • #3141290

        i’m still right on the crap bit

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Say What?

        ms is still trying to release a crap system on the gullible consumer.Even ms doesn’t know what the hell is going on at redmond.As to my spelling mistakes i don’t give a flying fart this is the internet warts & all.
        ta mick

        • #3281797

          re vista security concerns

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i’m still right on the crap bit

          PARIS, Oct 6 – Microsoft’s new operating system Vista will not make it more difficult for anti-virus systems to work, Russian computer security group and potential IPO candidate Kaspersky Lab said on Friday, contradicting rivals.

          In an open letter this week, U.S. anti-virus provider McAfee accused Microsoft of weakening users’ protection by no longer co-operating with computer security groups and denying them access to the core of the Vista system.

          “From what we have seen of Vista we cannot tell that Microsoft is blocking access to the core,” Kaspersky Lab Chief Executive and co-founder Natalya Kaspersky told Reuters in an interview in Paris.

          “It would not make any sense for them (Microsoft) to stop working with other computer security companies because it would make their system more vulnerable to attacks,” Kaspersky added.

          Microsoft, the world’s largest software group, entered the computer security market in June with OneCare, a software that aims to protect computers from viruses, spyware and other ailments.

          The U.S. software giant fired back on Monday, saying that it had worked closely with computer security companies throughout the development of Vista and planned to continue to do so.

          “Microsoft would have to change their business completely if what McAfee says was true,” Kaspersky said, explaining that Microsoft’s business model was based on working with other providers.

          POSSIBLE LONDON FLOTATION

          Kaspersky said Microsoft had held its traditional annual meeting with computer security companies this summer and she had not noticed co-operation was weakening.

          In its open letter on Monday McAfee alleged that Microsoft had firmly embedded in Vista its own security system which could not be disabled even when users purchased an alternative security product.

          “Microsoft seems to envision a world in which one giant company not only controls the systems that drive most computers around the world but also the security that protects those computers from viruses and other online threats,” McAfee said in its letter.

          Symantec and other computer security companies have backed McAfee’s criticism of the Microsoft Vista system.

          Microsoft has rejected their allegations and said it wished to deliver a secure version of Windows Vista that would be compliant with EU law.

          Kaspersky Lab, which was founded in 1997 in Moscow, said it was considering floating on London’s junior Alternative Investment Market (AIM) within the next three years.

          However, it said it wanted to wait and see first how Microsoft’s new anti-virus product OneCare would fare on the market before talking to investors and seeking a listing.

          “After one or two years, we will see what position on the market Microsoft’s OneCare product gets and perhaps it will turn out that Microsoft is just one among other providers of anti-virus software,” Kaspersky said.

          Kaspersky’s anti-spam software uses artificial intelligence – it reads and analyses word combinations. The company’s consultants can work days on virus attacks which target specific companies or organisations.

          Its customers include the BBC Worldwide, France Telecom, Telecom Italia Mobile, Russia’s largest retail bank Sberbank and several Russian ministries such as railway and finance.

          Kaspersky said she had noticed that anti-virus police forces around the world lacked resources.

          NEW VIRUSES

          She said new forms of attacks emerged every month or two.

          Among the latest, most dangerous forms, was spyware which allowed attackers to surreptitiously access files and information such as credit card details left after making a purchase online.

          She said potent “rootkits” were also being developed to prevent anti-virus software to work.

          Kaspersky, which has offices in California, Asia and Europe, employs 500 staff, is controlled by Natalya Kaspersky and her ex-husband Yevgeny Kaspersky, a former cryptologist. Together they own aboout 80 percent of the company.

          She said the business was profitable on a pre-tax basis and had enjoyed sales growth of nearly 20 percent in the past few years.

          She declined to provide precise revenue figures but said annual sales estimates of between $30 million and $60 million were realistic.

          Kaspersky said the total amount of money stolen and the damage caused by cyber-crime every year was far greater than the global market for computer security systems which she said was worth about $6 bilion in annual sales.

        • #3281794

          ms jingles

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i’m still right on the crap bit

          Vista startup chime will be optional. Seier writes, “Microsoft looks to have had a change of heart regarding its start-up chime. Weeks ago it was learned that the company was considering locking the startup sound down so that it could not be turned off. Ars Technica reports that Microsoft has added the option to disable the sound in the control panel. Meanwhile, Microsoft has still not revealed the startup sound, which will reportedly based on the guitar work of Robert Fripp.

        • #3281792

          thank you come again

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i’m still right on the crap bit

          Matt Freman writes to mention a ZDNet article on reports that private data is being sold out of an Indian call center. A U.K. television programme, ‘Dispatches’, follows a 12-month investigative report on illegal privacy-related activities. During the taping of the show thousands of U.K. bank customers had their personal information sold by the staff of a call center. From the article: “Indian IT trade organization Nasscom criticized Channel 4 for refusing to show it any of the footage before it was broadcast on Thursday evening. It urged the program makers to cooperate in rooting out and prosecuting any ‘corrupt’ call center workers. ‘The whole issue of data security is a global problem,’ said Sunil Mehta, a vice president at Nasscom. ‘There are bad apples in every industry around the world, and these incidents happen in India and the U.K. This is not a widespread problem in India. Security measures and practices that Indian companies have are the best in the world.'”

        • #3281791

          re ms piracy

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i’m still right on the crap bit

          coondoggie writes to mention an article on Information Week about possible unintended consequences of the Microsoft Software Protection Plan (SPP) discussed on Slashdot on Wednesday. The new initiative is intended to protect consumers from pirated software, but may cause major headaches for IT shops. From the article: “Microsoft will support SPP in current and future reporting and asset management tools such as System Center Operations Manager. ‘On paper it might sound pretty good, but we have to see how it works,’ says Jeff Allred, manager of network services for the Duke University Cancer Center. One of his concerns is that a reduced functionality mode kicks in three days after changing out a motherboard in a server if the software is not revalidated. ‘That really jumped out at me. We change out motherboards in our servers all the time,’ he says. The provision only covers a swap with a non-OEM motherboard, which Allred admits doesn’t happen often.”

        • #3281786

          possible further delays

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i’m still right on the crap bit

          Microsoft did not change its timing for the software’s final release, but did indicate that it could still miss its goals.

          “As we stated from the beginnning of Windows Vista development, the quality of the product will always be our first priority,” Microsoft said in a statement. “That said, Microsoft continues to target Windows Vista availability for volume license customers in November 2006 and general availability in January 2007, although the final delivery will be based on quality.”

          The software maker had hoped to have Vista on store shelves and in new PCs in time for this year’s holiday season, but said in March that it would miss that date.

          Analysts have been divided on whether Microsoft will make its revised goal. Goldman Sachs analyst Rick Sherlund said earlier Friday that Microsoft was on track to meet its current timetable, but Gartner has been predicting for some time that Microsoft would be forced to again delay the product.

          The software maker is encouraging developers and others to provide feedback on any issues that remain unresolved in the latest test builds.

          “Microsoft has continued to receive excellent feedback that is helping to improve the overall quality and performance of the product,” it said. “RC2 reflects that feedback and includes important improvements in performance, application compatibility and ‘fit and finish’ work.”
          yep that about says it

        • #3281733

          gsarine you say your a IT but then you show your not

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to possible further delays

          As anybody who is a IT knows that any software with even a 1/4 of the code of a OS that you can test for 100 years and never find all the bugs besides Windows runs on literally 100’s of millions of differant hardware which I think is amazing that there are not more problems.
          Mike

        • #3281783

          that about sums it up

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i’m still right on the crap bit

          The latest word on Windows Vista is the Presentation that Bill Gates made at the CES, where the ‘Man of the Year’ demonstrated some features that had not been shown before.

          David Pogue writes for The New York Times, giving an item by item list of these features and his impressions on them:

          ? Transparent window edges. They’re cool, sure; but exactly how many times, in your work life, have you muttered, “Darn! If only I could see just the part of the background window that’s currently obscured by the 1/3-inch margin of the foreground window”?
          ? Widgets. It’s a lot like the Dashboard in Mac OS X (or the shareware Konfabulator that came before it), except that apparently, you can’t put the widgets anywhere on the screen you like.
          ? 3-D application switcher. It’s a lot like the Expos? feature in Mac OS X, except that you don’t get to see all of the windows simultaneously; you have to walk through them one at a time with the mouse or keyboard.
          ? Global, fast search. Vista can now find words in any of your files, quickly and easily, just like the Spotlight feature of Mac OS X.
          ?
          Photo organization. Vista’s couldn’t look more like Apple’s iPhoto program if you ran it through a copying machine.

          “If I seem to be laying on the ‘stolen from Apple’ language a bit thick, you’re darned right. Ordinarily, I’m careful about making accusations like this, because I know I’ll get hammered by Apple bashers. But in this case, there’s not a shred of doubt: most of the features Microsoft demonstrated last night were pure, unadulterated ripoffs from Mac OS X. I could hear actual whispers of recognition from the audience around me,” Pogue writes.

          ?A lot of what we’ve seen in Vista has similarities with Tiger,? said Gartenberg, referring to the operating system on Apple Macintosh computers. ?Vista may still impress many consumers, because many of them may have never seen Apple’s operating system.?

          It comes as no surprise to anyone, after all, at the WWDC in June 2004 there were huge posters of the Mac OS X Tiger CD that read ?Introducing Longhorn,? ?This should keep Redmond busy,? ?Redmond start your photocopiers,? and ?Redmond we have a problem.? To everyone that has used Apple’s OS over the years, the similarities in features and options that appear in Windows, years after they are seen in the Mac OS are no mere coincidence.
          Steve Jobs answer to what he thinks of Longhorn aka Vista could not be clearer: “They are shamelessly copying us. They can’t even copy fast,” he said. ?Innovation is the only way to win. You just have to stay ahead of people.”

          Microsoft is finding itself to be less and less in the spotlight while the small fish of yore have grown up and are now breathing down their neck.

          ?Whatever Microsoft has lacked in flair, it has made up for with a combination of muscle and patience… But now, Microsoft no longer looks as if it can dominate the competition through willpower alone: Google runs the dominant Internet search business, and Yahoo! has a dominant position as an Internet content provider. Apple Computer now dominates the mobile-entertainment-player business and may soon leverage that lead to make a run at the same home-media-player business Microsoft has been trying to crack,” Peter Kafka writes for Forbes.

          In general, Microsoft and its ?new? operating system is loosing more and more of its credibility with each passing month and year as it is constatnly being postponed and features keep getting left out. Vista is very important to Microsoft, both in generating income, allowing it to maintain its position, and in conquering new territories.

          ?There’s a lot riding on Vista,? said Michael Gartenberg, an analyst at the market research firm Jupiter Research. ?Vista must be successful if they want to be an important player in the digital home.?

          At the end of the day, David Pogue said it best: “Anyway, all of this will be nice to have, if it works and doesn’t require us all to buy new computers to run it. But I think that what most people want from the next Windows isn’t more stuff added, but rather stuff to be taken away–like crashes, lockups, viruses, error messages and security holes.”
          you’re darn tootin right !
          ta mick

        • #3281735

          Actually you as usual have it wrong

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to that about sums it up

          1 Dashboard was stolen from Konfabulator so why can’nt MS use the same idea
          2 Actually both Apple and Google stole the idea of fast search as MS announced it several years ago
          3 Actually Photo Gallery is simply a pared down version of Digital Image Suite 2006, MS just put in-but is even more capable than iphoto, that’s the way to go.

          If you want to know the truth both Apple and MS use ideas from each other all the time.
          Mike

        • #3281729

          Well gsarine I know your totally wrong

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i’m still right on the crap bit

          Windows Home Premium is the only OS on 2 of my pc’s. From what I’ve read here you do not know what your talking about. You say yo9u have proof then half the time you won’t give it and when you do you post just what you think supports you but if you put it in context of the the article it proves you wrong 99% of the time.
          I’m sorry but to me you sound like a teenager who’s says I know it all and anbody who disagrees with me is wrong.
          Mike

        • #3281717

          Home Premium?

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to Well gsarine I know your totally wrong

          as in Vista?

        • #3281703

          That’s right

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Home Premium?

          Seeing I’ve been beta testing Vista
          since July of 2005.
          Mike

        • #3281574

          NO as usual your still totally wrong

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i’m still right on the crap bit

          Vista X86 all versions is very good- Vista x64 once more hardware manufacturers get onboard with drivers will be very good.
          Frankly you still sound like a know it all kid who does not really know anything.
          Mike

        • #3281561
          Avatar photo

          Michael I would nearly agree with you

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to NO as usual your still totally wrong

          About the 32 Bit Version except for the limited AV Support it’s fairly good reasonably steady has a few problems that stop existing hardware running or worse still install and appears to work properly and then stops DVD X Copy comes to mind here. That’s a pain really as it goes through all the process until it comes time to burn the DVD and then insists that the Drive Tray is empty.

          However the 64 Bit version is [b]Woeful[/b] and I don’t agree that the Hardware makers are entirely at fault. Every 64 Bit Nix or BSD that I use has full hardware support but the Windows Offering leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to hardware recolonisation and supporting drivers.

          However the one thing that has me slightly concerned is how MS is now going to classify what a CPU actually is. With the advent of Dual Core with HTT which look to all intents & purposes like 4 CPU’s I personally think that this is going to be a problem for many end users who want the processing power and still use Windows. It’s something that’s only going to get worse as time goes on with the advent of 4 Core CPU’s from Intel and no doubt AMD in the not to distant future to be shortly followed by Quad Cored with HTT.

          I think MS will want to treat these new offerings as Multi CPU’s and the Legal Fraternity will argue that as there is only 1 Chip involved it’s actually only 1 CPU. Either way I’m not sure how that’s going to work out and the 5600 Build of Ultimate only supports 2 CPU’s and not the Dual Core with HTT that I’m currently running it on well at least on 1 test unit.

          MS is going to have to develop much more in the way of 64 Bit drivers to make the hardware makers follow this path and come up with better drivers & Applications if MS ever wants to sell their 64 Bit OS’s in any volume. Currently the new version of Exchange is going to be 64 Bit and will run quite nicely on a 64 Bit Sever OS from MS that is incapable of driving many printers currently available. It’s when you see things like this where there just are not the necessary drivers available that make MS look bad.

          While I like the idea of MS supplying an AV product I’m not likely to be a heavy user of it as I don’t like placing all my eggs in one basket so to speak. Both Norton’s & McAffee have been very vocal about the way that MS is handling Vista and even Trend isn’t putting out much in the way of Beta Products that show any real functionality. It’s just when someone breaks the MS Supplied AV product they will then have complete control of the computer that worries me. It’s far more likely to happen that way than any other way and I’m uncomfortable with the idea.

          Here on Company NB’s I use a product called Zonex which will allow company staff 28 days between upgrades or Definition updates whatever you want to call them with out a problem which works out well for people on the road and not in their office with ready access to the Net to update their systems, I wouldn’t be trusting any MS product to be doing a similar job on the same machines. They will just be too big and Tempting Target for the Script Kiddies not to get Close & Personal with.

          Actually I think that MS should be doing far more with the 64 Bit versions as they will in the not to distant future be the Standard rather than something that’s nice and will one day be the standard platform that everyone’s going to be working off. When we moved from 16 Bit to 32 Bit the change didn’t take anywhere near as long and it was far smother than what we are currently seeing.

          Col

        • #3280110

          I agree with you hal 110%

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Michael I would nearly agree with you

          My comment is in what should have been another
          service pack for windows XP,MS has turned it from longhorn to vista et all.It is a complete
          flop.It is of no use to the average user who should stay with XP.AS to the 64 bit readyness
          that is a complete lie & a joke & we all know it.In what should have been a complete technical flop they have tried to maintain face & kept massaging it
          for the gullible IT Public & consumer.
          I for one am not convinced one iota of the real value of windows vista as it is technically deficient of all it cracked up to be.I still say there are huge technical hurdles to overcome in stability is still a sham
          as well as compatibility.I still say vista
          is crap & a goodmany people are not happy with it.
          PS there’s hardly any vista software around & i’m told that 64 bit is just pie in the sky !
          I spoke to some of my MS contacts who say that they should’ve ditched vista long time ago.
          ta mick

        • #3280109

          In the operating business MS has totally flopped

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to NO as usual your still totally wrong

          in What was meant to be a heads will roll attiotude MS persisted & massaged the VIsta betas to produce a final in about face to save
          it self from complete failure.In what should have been a service pack for Win XP they persisted with huge technical hurdles & abandoment of what they promised to deliver.
          Vista is still not as stable as they would have you beleive.The software drivers aren’t available.Compatibility is still a problem.
          Source code is still with errors with people saying she’ll be right when it is a sham.
          ta mick

    • #3280042

      Latest release leaves lot to be desired

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      The final release of vista looks like anything but thepolished product it’s meant to be.We know that from the time taken & the results of the previous releases that MS was taking it’s time as the vista project snowballed with huge
      technical problems They tried to cover it up by face saving rc 2.This has proved that it is anything but a poor attempt at that.IT still has source code errors.People are still reporting problems of stability,Problems with no drivers for vista not being available.Compatibility is still a major issue.Heads were mean’t to roll at ms over the dysmal failure of the previous releases.Current release still shows that with time racing away they still have major problems.
      ta mick

      • #3280037

        In a recent annoncement hackers have shown

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Latest release leaves lot to be desired

        how easily hackers can get into the vista kernel.MS in it’s attempt to offer greater protectiion than previous releases have shown contrary to their own statements that the kernel was better protected.Security is still a concern& is a problem in that it may release vista as is.
        ta mick

      • #3279940

        You say you’ve been in IT for 29 years and do not rememberwhen XP came out

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to Latest release leaves lot to be desired

        From what I’m seeing RC2 (32bit) Vista is better than XP RTM on compatiblity of older applications-stability and also drivers.When XP first came out there were less drivers than what is in Vista plus more than a few of the XP drivers will work in Vista.
        Plus we all know that most people will not run the 64 bit version but as time goes by and driver availiblity plus more applications written for 64bit people may switch over.
        Mike

        • #3279872
          Avatar photo

          But therein lies the problem Michael

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to You say you’ve been in IT for 29 years and do not rememberwhen XP came out

          We already have 64 Bit versions of XP and 2003 available and they are atrocious to say the least. I recently answered a question posed by one of the peers here why their printer wouldn’t work off the 64 Bit 2003 File/Print server that they had setup and has all the hardware sold to work with the 64 Bit System there where no 64 Bit drivers for that printer under 2003.

          I currently have 2 copies of XP Pro 64 and neither of them is any good for anything at all at the moment and I’m constantly steering clear of 2003 64 for server applications. When I need a 64 Bit Server I use one of the Linux’s or a BSD in 64 Bit Configuration as they have everything required.

          Currently here MS is letting down it’s users [b]Big Time[/b] with their 64 Bit offerings. Even as recently as a day ago I was suggesting to another peer here at TR to remove a 64 Bit XP OS and use a 32 Bit version so that the computer can do what it was built for.

          The 64 Bit OS’s have been out long enough now that there should be plenty of drivers available for them, even when XP was released it had built in drivers for a heap of Printers that where no longer being supported by the makers with drivers written for XP and until I could be sure that some of my bigger high volume Laser Printers where supported under XP I wouldn’t even consider rolling out XP across the LAN. These drivers came with the original version of XP and while it had plenty of faults it at least drove most of the then available hardware with only a few exceptions. Now granted my Canon LBP1760 printer isn’t anywhere near new and there are a lot of newer Laser Printers available but very few as solid or as fast with the duplexer fitted and I can’t see any reason to change it. This is basically the same unit as the HP4000 which is still one of the heavily used Laser Printers. While the 64 Bit versions of XP do supposedly drive this printer the print speed is appalling compared to the 32 Bit drivers provided by MS.

          Col

        • #3220422

          32 bit is the way to go for quite a while.

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to But therein lies the problem Michael

          my organization is sticking to 32 bit for a lon while.I have contacted the major manufacturers & the have said that they won’t be releasing 64 bit drivers in the immediate future.I have asked them about vista drivers & they have said that it will take a long time & MS has only itself to blame over the delay.They should not have released a vista op system & should have released a service pack for XP.
          People have lost faith with MS this time.
          ta mick

        • #3281421

          + point for WinXP, and Col is correct…

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to You say you’ve been in IT for 29 years and do not rememberwhen XP came out

          The success of WinXP, and the biggest + point was and still is, is that it had drivers with out end. It was, and still is, the most driver supported OS, ever. (& no, all the credit does not go to MS, the drivers had come from the venders of the equiptment, but MS was smart enough at the time to include them.)
          edited to add:
          the Hal is also correct in that Win64 bit anything is worthless- I know of NO firm using it or even considering useing it. -Ever-

        • #3281379

          Actually I agree on Vista X64

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to + point for WinXP, and Col is correct…

          By the way I had Windows XP RTM long before most people had it(I was one of the beta testers who had it the day it went RTM).As I remember it-oneof the biggest complaints most people had-were the drivers not being there. In fact I remember a scanner not having any drivers-which I contacted the manufacturer-who said there will be no drivers for it and this happened with many other hardware.
          Plus I also remember many people could not install XP till they updated the bios of their computer. If they could not update theirs in other words no update available-they were out of luck.
          Mike

        • #3281313
          Avatar photo

          Michael I only remember an XP SP2 BIOS problem

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Actually I agree on Vista X64

          And that one only occurred with Intel systems always the P4’s of the day. It wasn’t a problem overall with XP that I’ve ever run into and I’ve been using XP on 450 P3’s though granted they where all Dual processor M’Boards. Mostly Gigabyte and ASUS if I remember correctly.

          But the SP2 was a major problem for just about every P4 Intel Chip Set Unit that I’ve ever seen though for some reason it didn’t affect different Chip Set Makers when they where using P4 CPU’s.

          I can still remember one office Manager where I had turned off the Auto Updates and told her not to turn it back on so she just had to and insisted on installing SP2 on the last day of the month when the Tax had to be done well after 3.00 pm. It was interesting on the reboot as after the POST Screen she got a lovely blank screen and I could hear her scream from here. 😀

          I only had to drive about 85 K’s to get there to Flash the BIOS so that it worked again and I never had another problem from her about getting in and doing routine maintenance. Prior to that she didn’t have the time available to allow me to do what was required as she was [b]Too Busy.[/b] There is nothing like sitting around for a little over an hour waiting for the tech to turn up and hopefully get the unit working again so you can do the Tax. She didn’t believe just how fast I got the system up & running again but for months prior she didn’t have the spare time to let me in there to do the update. :0

          Col

        • #3220424

          i agree with you on all you had to say

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Actually I agree on Vista X64

          especially the bios bit a lot of hardware like hardrives etc will not function.A lot of people are loosing patience with the release of vista on to the market.
          my sentiments exactly.
          ta mick

        • #3220423

          64 bit is pie in the sky

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to + point for WinXP, and Col is correct…

          youre right the vendors were embracing xp this time they are not embracing vista & thats the truth.
          People are going to find that they have virtually no drivers.How are they going to use vista?
          Vista still has inherent problems.
          Ta mick

        • #3220373
          Avatar photo

          And herein lies the problem

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to 64 bit is pie in the sky

          The hardware makers are rushing ahead in developing new Hardware that 3 years after it is launched still has no software to drive it fully.

          With the advent of 64 Bit CPU’s and the current companies working on 128 Bit CPU and Chip Sets to support these CPU’s why bother even building them if there is nothing to drive them to 100% capacity?

          Ms has at the very best made a half hearted attempt to produce a 64 Bit OS and is only some time in the near future releasing a 64 Bit Application namely Exchange because their poor coding practices have made this necessary to allow Exchange to still maintain it’s position in Business. So the [b]Do More With Less[/b] add campaign will now read Do More with More as you have to buy specialized product to run on one server to distribute your E-Mail and then you can move everything onto one other 32 Bit Server. What a Joke! But as MS will be selling 2 copies of 2003 Server and 1 new copy of Exchange they are not going to be worried in the slightest.

          Of if you are brave enough to trust a Mission Critical Application on a 64 Bit OS that is supposed to run in 32 Bit Mode for 32 Bit software you could always wait for the new Sever product that is coming. I’ll just bet that the basic drivers for unimportant things like printers retain the need to drive them in native 64 Bit Mode so that immediately rules out almost all the currently available printers.

          Col

        • #3281372

          I don’t remember either

          by arizmendi ·

          In reply to You say you’ve been in IT for 29 years and do not rememberwhen XP came out

          I’ve been in IT since 1959 and I don’t remember when XP came out, nor do I care, nor does it matter. I also don’t remember when the the Altair came out, or when North West Tech Labs was in business. What does matter is whether the future learns from the past and whether it is at least getting better. The learning from the past bit is unfortunately a problem for a lot of people (and non-existent for politicians), so progress is miserably slow. So far, Chris Pirillo is right – only switch to Vista if it comes with a new computer you buy. Since I assemble mine from parts, I’ll probably stick with XP for a long time until there is a reason to switch.

        • #3281311

          Agreed

          by jinteik ·

          In reply to I don’t remember either

          i totally agree with arizmendi…if you are using win xp and you are happy with it,stick to it….i believe xp can do NEARLY everything that normal user needs to do.

        • #3221402

          I was just answering gsarine

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Agreed

          Where he was saying no drivers for Vista-I was reminding him that XP did not have many drivers until it was out being used. Actually this happened many times with each new Windows version -many manufacturer’s would or did not write new drivers that worked with each new version till that version was actually for sale.
          Mike
          PS since I usually had the full versions 2 months or more before the public could buy – I noticed that soon after release the manufacturers were releasing drivers for the versions. From version 98/98SE/Me/XP now Vista.

        • #3220426

          well thats not the point

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I was just answering gsarine

          the point is there ain’t going to be drivers even though vista will be released.
          Most people don’t seem to careas not many people are ready to embrace the full release as it’s a pile of crap.Moreso even Ms knows it will be upgrades that it hopes to sell.
          ta mick

      • #3221390

        VIsta licensing

        by arizmendi ·

        In reply to Latest release leaves lot to be desired

        According to an article I just read, Vista can be transferred ONLY ONCE. This means that you can change motherboards ONCE, since a motherboard change looks like a new computer. This will prevent you from upgrading your computer a second time unless you buy another copy of Vista. Microsoft is helping us again, Aren’t they nice?

        • #3220428

          you are right on that

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to VIsta licensing

          Ms doesn’t want people to cheat & that about sums up what the anti piracy steps are
          they want to squeeze every last drop of sweat & blood from the consumer.
          ta mick

    • #3220381

      another reason to ignore vista is

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      When Windows Vista is available, consumers will be able to transfer the OS license they purchase to only one machine other than the one for which they originally buy Vista, says Shanen Boettcher, a Windows general manager at Microsoft. He says Microsoft thinks the change makes sense because ?lifetimes for PCs are getting longer.? Most likely, a user will not need to transfer an OS license to more than one computer during the time that OS is the latest one available, Boettcher says
      ta mick

      • #3220370

        Better

        by now left tr ·

        In reply to another reason to ignore vista is

        than the current OEM!!

      • #3220290

        !!! DOC POST PROOF !!!

        by now left tr ·

        In reply to another reason to ignore vista is

        Post 590 of 720 PROOF – PROOF – PROOF

        Ok Mr. PHD – prove to everybody that you have said qualification. Failure to do so will be taken as ‘you have none’.

        Any comment about not having to do so will be taken as ‘you have none’

        Any other comment OR failure to deliver said information will result in ‘you have none’.

        Cough it up then??

        • #3276224

          the latest release proves what a dumb idiot you are

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to !!! DOC POST PROOF !!!

          Technology
          Network Security – Microsoft
          Microsoft scrutinised for IE 7 flaw and broken Vista promises
          by Bill Brenner, Senior News Writer
          Monday 23 October 2006
          This article originally appeared on SearchSecurity.com.
          Microsoft defended itself Friday against accusations of insincerity regarding its pledge to make…

          Article Continues Below
          … Windows Vista compatible with third-party security software. The company was also forced to dispute a security firm’s claim that the newly-released Internet Explorer (IE) 7 contains a flaw.

          On the Vista front, Gartner analyst Neil MacDonald claimed in an analysis Thursday that while Microsoft’s plan to tweak Vista is a positive move, the process will take years and cause incompatibility problems in the short term.

          Microsoft didn’t address Gartner’s assessment directly, but Ben Fathi, corporate vice-president of Microsoft’s Security Technology Unit, probably added more fuel to the fire by saying the company’s goal is to provide an initial set of documented, supported kernel interfaces in the Windows Vista SP1 timeframe.

          In recent months Microsoft has tried to refute accusations from security suppliers such as Symantec and McAfee that it was developing Windows Vista in a way that would lock out third-party security products. But last week it caved to pressure from security suppliers and anti-trust officials in Europe and promised to create additional APIs so rival suppliers can access the operating system’s core and, as a result, develop products that work more effectively with the operating system.

          Christopher Thomas, a legal counselor for McAfee, fired off an angry statement Thursday accusing the software firm of hollow promises.

          “Despite pledges, press conferences and speeches by Microsoft, the community of independent security companies that consumers rely on for computer protection has seen little indication that Microsoft intends to live up to the promises it made last week,” Thomas said.

          In response, Fathi dismissed McAfee’s claims as “inaccurate and inflammatory,” adding that Microsoft has “already taken a number of steps to provide McAfee and our other security partners with the information they need.”

          On the short-term issue of allowing third-party security alerts to replace Windows Security Center alerts, he said Microsoft made the documentation and sample code available to security partners Monday.

          “At McAfee’s request, we also emailed a second copy of the materials to a senior McAfee engineer at 2:07pm, Tuesday, 17 October,” he said. “We followed up by providing the new builds of Windows Vista with this functionality on Wednesday, 18 October, and we held a conference call with McAfee personnel at noon Thursday, 19 October to answer any remaining questions.”

          As the Microsoft defended itself against McAfee’s claims, it was also forced to refute charges from Danish vulnerability clearinghouse Secunia that the newly released IE 7 has a security flaw.

          In an advisory, Secunia said the vulnerability is caused by an error in how redirections for URLs with the “mhtml:” URI handler are processed. Attackers could potentially exploit the problem to disclose sensitive information, the firm added. It did deem the flaw “less critical,” however.

          Christopher Budd of the Microsoft Security Response Center said in the organisation’s blog that there is no IE 7 flaw. The issue Secunia warned of is actually a flaw in Outlook Express.

          “The issue concerned in these reports is not in IE 7 or any other version at all,” he said. “Rather, it is in a different Windows component, specifically a component in Outlook Express. While we are aware that the issue has been publicly disclosed, we’re not aware of it being used in any attacks against customers.”

          He said Microsoft would continue to investigate.

          Microsoft released IE 7 this week after a long beta process. The software firm has been touting significant security enhancements in the browser, including an anti-phishing feature.
          How long will they mislead people about the real worth of vista as a worthless piece of sh …t
          ta mick

        • #3276173

          CTRL C – CTRL V

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to the latest release proves what a dumb idiot you are

          !

        • #3138050

          if you bothered to read the release blogs

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to CTRL C – CTRL V

          at the ms website you would see the sort of problems people have had with the betas.
          One would agree that the picture is not as rosy as people would have us beleive.There are still major issues here.
          ta mick

        • #3222840

          How about proof of what you post

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to if you bothered to read the release blogs

          I know you know how to cut and paste. You endlessly say Vista is a failure and here is proof but don’t give the url so we can read our selves. How about when your qouting somebody else that fits your ABMer atitude-give us the url-you many time take things out of context or just don’t give the whole story.
          Mike

        • #3222764

          idon’t prove anything to anyone what i have so far is true

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to How about proof of what you post

          you see mike you will readily accept whatever ms dishes out to you.I don’t.What i have said is true it is based from testing
          & i make my own mind at the moment vista is one big sham when people like you readily accept everything without question.
          This does not apply to HAL or Col who is numero uno at tech republic of which he has the good sense to say that all is not as rosy as people think & i fully agree with what Hal has to say.
          MS has not come clean on vista at all it is smply trying to monopolise everything of windows & make$$$$$.
          ta mick

    • #3220380

      If beta comes out hardly any full versions will be sold

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Vista release won’t be accepted as full version for quite a while as people are stillnot convinced of it’s benefits.If anyone does get it it will be more of an upgrade.More reason to assume that vista will not be like other releases.There will be a lotat stake as some software programs are not compatible & manufacturers will take their time to fix their programs.Ms has no one else to blame but itself.
      ta mick

      • #3220292

        !!! PROOF – PROOF – PROOF !!!

        by now left tr ·

        In reply to If beta comes out hardly any full versions will be sold

        Post 590 of 720 PROOF – PROOF – PROOF

        Ok Mr. PHD – prove to everybody that you have said qualification. Failure to do so will be taken as ‘you have none’.

        Any comment about not having to do so will be taken as ‘you have none’

        Any other comment OR failure to deliver said information will result in ‘you have none’.

        Cough it up then??

    • #3220371

      VISTA

      by now left tr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      has not been released yet. Everything you have based your views & comments on is a ‘pre-release version’ of the software.

      I guess you must drive around on an axel & live in a timber frame.

      • #3220335

        In Addition

        by rkuhn040172 ·

        In reply to VISTA

        Read some of the reviews of Red Hat 5.0 beta.

        If I were to start a thread about how terrible RHEL 5.0 beta is, the Linux crowd would swarm me and fight to the death to defend their precious Linux distro…or, of course, tell me how RHEL isn’t all that but their specific distro is.

        Bottom line, betas are called betas for a reason. Please reserve judgement until the final product is released.

        • #3220334
          Avatar photo

          Wouldn’t be a problem here

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to In Addition

          I hate FC5 with a vengeance and the Red Hat Enterprise isn’t much better in my opinion.

          If I’m given the option between Red Hat Enterprise and SUSE I’d take SUSE every day of the week. It’s just better.

          But that’s only my 2 cents worth. 😀

          Col

        • #3220308

          re hat has got a 93 feel

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Wouldn’t be a problem here

          red hat is really old hat for me,if it wasn’t for stability windows would win all the time.
          ta mick

        • #3220293

          !!! PROOF – PROOF – PROOF – PROOF !!!

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to re hat has got a 93 feel

          Post 590 of 720 PROOF – PROOF – PROOF

          Ok Mr. PHD – prove to everybody that you have said qualification. Failure to do so will be taken as ‘you have none’.

          Any comment about not having to do so will be taken as ‘you have none’

          Any other comment OR failure to deliver said information will result in ‘you have none’.

          Cough it up then??

        • #3222519

          well judging by your remark you have none!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to !!! PROOF – PROOF – PROOF – PROOF !!!

          You only need see the ms website to concurr
          that there is a big sham going on to make the gullible public feel they are getting their $$$ when in fact it is a big con job to stop piracy in a big way.That’s all it is
          & it is the sign of an intelligent person to concurr with that.I think judging how you feel you will not get far in IT.
          ta mick

      • #3222509

        but i have appraised & tested vista on many levels

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to VISTA

        I have put vista to the test & it has failed dismally on all levels.That is what i have based my results not simply that i have installed vista but i have used it with other installed software & have proven that stability & compatibility are still are major problems.
        I rest my case
        ta mick

        • #3219016

          well that’s all we are going to get

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to but i have appraised & tested vista on many levels

          well that’s what well get from ms in regards to vista.It’s come a long way but it’s still got a long way to go with more release packs & upgrades to 2n edition in 2009.
          ta mick

        • #3218947

          This is a MEANING LESS reply

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well that’s all we are going to get

          Well what is it that we will get with Vista.
          I would still like proof you are who and that your job is what you say it is or are you just a wannabe(more likely).
          Mike

        • #3218951

          Sorry gsaravin but you have never given proof

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to but i have appraised & tested vista on many levels

          plus you keep saying the same thing ad-infinum. I have tested in all levels and it performs great. Stability is great in Vista-my pc runs 24/7 with no problems.
          On campatibility which programs are you talking about.
          The only program I use that does not work is Nero but that needs to be written for Vista and Vista drivers supplied.
          Mike

    • #3220291

      !!! – PROOF – PROOF – PROOF !!!

      by now left tr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Post 590 of 720 PROOF – PROOF – PROOF

      Ok Mr. PHD – prove to everybody that you have said qualification. Failure to do so will be taken as ‘you have none’.

      Any comment about not having to do so will be taken as ‘you have none’

      Any other comment OR failure to deliver said information will result in ‘you have none’.

      Cough it up then??

      • #3222518

        well i don’t know you but all i can say is vista is not quite

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to !!! – PROOF – PROOF – PROOF !!!

        ready to make the impact that they originally said they would.you know a lot of graphic cards cannot cope with the extra loads they will carry when they operate under vista.This strain willmanifest itself
        in greater equipment failure.You wouldnot use vista with just any equipment & testing is paramount.
        Ta mick

    • #3220631

      X64 Ultimate install on my pc-RC2

      by michael l hereid sr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Everyone esp gsaraqvin say there are no drivers for Vista X64-well I just installed it on one of my pc’s-guess what all of my hardware is installed and working very good. I have ran for several days now and no problems-even my tv card was detected and installed and working.
      Mike

      PS gsaravin your still wrong.

      • #3219782

        Biostar fan control still has no drivers

        by moira ·

        In reply to X64 Ultimate install on my pc-RC2

        I also installed that, although not RC2, which I have on DVD, just haven’t installed yet.

        Biostar fan control still doesn’t work in Vista, which is particularly annoying as I really don’t want to be running the fans at 100% capacity all the time.

        • #3222511

          that is exactly what i have been saying all along

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Biostar fan control still has no drivers

          mike4 just doesn’t get it that vista doesn’t readily accept any old drivers that we can get & even if we install the”right ones”it will ignore rhem as there are no acceptance featuresasin other op systems.vista doesn’t show full capability to that extent.
          ta mick

      • #3222515

        did i say there were no drivers for some equipment

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to X64 Ultimate install on my pc-RC2

        & some drivers for others.You have only installed the drivers.But are you testing to see that you are getting the full spectrum of x64 you will find that you are not as i have tested it out & found problems galore,you are kidding me.You will get some functionality granted but if you test that it is a far cry of what is expected.You sure are wrong mike.
        ta mick

        • #3222408

          OK what problems

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to did i say there were no drivers for some equipment

          Just a few programs that work-Adobe(pdf)-flash-Quicken-QuickTime/ITunes-Fligh Simulator-Sim City 4-Acronis True 10 Home plus many developers say that until Vista goes RTM they will not update drivers or they will release new software that you will have to buy. Also many manufacturers will not develop Vista drivers because they want you to buy new equipment that will work with Vista. This has happened with every windows version.
          So like I said what problems.
          Mike

        • #3220080

          What problems ???

          by moira ·

          In reply to OK what problems

          I’m not made of money, that’s the first problem. I don’t see why I should buy a new motherboard because Vista refuse to include drivers that will utilize the fan control feature. I’m not impressed that there are programs which work – as far as I’m concerned it’s not acceptable to run the fans at 100% capacity, so what programs work is completely irrelevant. I won’t be able to use it for more than experimental purposes on that PC, which OK, isn’t new by any means but it’s still got a reasonable spec and could have handled Vista nicely apart from this one irritating oversight.

        • #3219925

          Do you have any idea how many

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to What problems ???

          motherboards are availible-literally 10’s of 1000’s. The fan control drivers are provided by those manufacturers. MS cannot be expected to supply those drivers,which by the way has to be done with each motherboard, this has happened with every new OS.
          Mike

        • #3276226

          do you know that neither the manufacturers or ms

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Do you have any idea how many

          is going to supply drivers for the existing motherboards.People will have to fend for themselves.Unless you are prepared to buy this $$$ new fangled current mother board with xyzx bios you will just take potluck.
          I’m sorry but MS has taken just too long on this project & has missed the boat as manufactures are not compelled to issue new drivers.
          Precisely what i have been saying all along tha vista has let us down on a whole lot more than we think.
          ta mick

        • #3276195

          You are so deceived

          by marketingtutor. ·

          In reply to do you know that neither the manufacturers or ms

          and lost in the musings of your own mind. Asus for one already has various motherboards with Vista drivers available.

          You’re a troll, nothing more… You talk all this crap, and then say something like “I think the problem is in the source code” like you’re a friggin’ genius or something. Where else is the problem going to be?!? On the wall next to your computer?!?

          The problem isn’t in the source code, its in your head.

          You troll, go play with your blocks under the bridge, and leave the adults alone.

          This thread has turned into a typical Troll-fest.

        • #3275875

          Actually a lot of drivers for XP

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to do you know that neither the manufacturers or ms

          Were not out till XP went retail. Vista it self contains more drivers than XP when it went retail.
          By the way there is no way that MS can compell any manufacturer do issue new drivers for any new OS and once Vista is availible you may be surprised at how soon some will release new drivers.
          Mike

        • #3276057

          Precisely why I’m less than impressed so far

          by moira ·

          In reply to Do you have any idea how many

          I quite agree that we’re all going to have to buy expensive new hardware for Vista, which will probably be obsolete by the time it’s actually available.

          For whatever reason, the failure of fan control drivers is a fundamental barrier to using Vista on that computer, so my choices are limited. I can either buy a 3D graphics card for this PC solely for Vista, which somewhat irritates me – yes I know it would work in a basic fashion with onboard graphics but I don’t like paying a fortune for an operating system where I can only use half the potential it offers. Replacing the motherboard on the PC that does have a good enough graphics card means more or less rebuilding it.

          I could hope Biostar bring out drivers, which they might – or I could just use a different operating system, beginning to look by far the most practical option for a good while yet.

        • #3276014

          Stop Hiding…

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Precisely why I’m less than impressed so far

          Your hatred for Microsoft behind your fan control.

          I haven’t yet heard you say that you’ll never buy another Biostar product again since their driver support is so bad.

          Give it time.

        • #3276001

          Well for about 1 month after Vista is on the shelves

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Precisely why I’m less than impressed so far

          Check the Biostar website-they may release Vista drivers eventually-this includes all other hardware that at this time is not supported for Vista.
          I have seen this happen with Windows 98/Me/Xp-the manufactures of most all hardware being a little slow offering updates for them to work in the new operating system.
          Mike

        • #3276227

          precisely why is it hit or miss when it should have updated drivers on inst

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What problems ???

          Heaps of people don’t have money to waste on the new system & hardware.Also if you buy something like hardware & it’s incompatible youv’e done your dough.Also most people just want to sample the new system.I’m with you on this all the way.
          cheers mick

        • #3276170

          Hmmm

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to precisely why is it hit or miss when it should have updated drivers on inst

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        • #3275936

          Then according to you(PS for Moira)(more added)

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to precisely why is it hit or miss when it should have updated drivers on inst

          MS should write and test drivers for all the hardware that you can buy. Won’nt happen as there are literally millions of drivers needed.
          I’m one of those you say cannot afford to buy new equipment or software all the time-I’m living on Social Security so I don’t have a lot for new equipment but I will buy Vista Home premium because it is worth the price.
          mick looks like you really don’t know what your talking about.
          Cheers Mike

          PS Moira this is meant for gsaravin-he is always saying that MS should supply all drivers.

        • #3275903

          I’m certainly not saying that

          by moira ·

          In reply to Then according to you(PS for Moira)(more added)

          Regarding my Biostar problems, I’m just stating the fact that the lack of drivers *so far* are a fundamental reason why I could never use Vista seriously on that PC. Why haven’t Biostar brought out drivers? They did for XP.

          Maybe they’re as disillusioned with Vista and it’s constant delays as some of us are. Either way, if hardware isn’t compatible and I can’t afford an upgrade, Vista isn’t an option yet. I’m not saying it’s anyone’s fault, it just makes Vista rather useless.

        • #3275873
          Avatar photo

          I don’t know if this helps or not

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Then according to you(PS for Moira)(more added)

          But at the AMD Launch of the 64 Athlon AMD where saying just how close they & the major M’Board suppliers that they recommended where working with MS to supply drivers that would be available from the MS Live Update Site.

          So the original thinking was that when you logged on to update your version of Windows you would get any new drivers for your hardware just like HP does with their printers. While I’ve never used a Biostar M’Board I’m not sure just how well they worked but the NVidia and SIS Chip Set M’Boards where pretty good for getting the latest updates when they where made available.

          But having said that the 64 Bit version of XP was never very well supported.

          Col

        • #3216070

          well at least you would expect some drivers

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Then according to you(PS for Moira)(more added)

          if some one buys the latest operating system
          you would expectsome drivers to be available.
          it’s a hand in hand approach.
          ms has delayed vista so much that hardly any drivers are available.
          so i’m saying drivers should be available for most equipment ,it would be nice!
          ta mick

      • #3223487

        I am delighted !!

        by moira ·

        In reply to X64 Ultimate install on my pc-RC2

        A friend of mine came up with a solution to the Biostar fan control problem in Vista and now it is running as quietly as it was in XP.

        I had an old manual fan control dial – with this fitted on the cpu fan, I can manually set the Biostar to run at the mimimum speed necessary – simulating what the Biostar software did automatically. And it doesn’t matter that the fan control software still runs in XP, it simply doesn’t really need to kick in now.

        If the room heats up I can easily take the side off the case and turn the fan up – I used to have this system before the Biostar anyway.

        So suddenly Vista is suddenly viable again, even the 64 bit version. I’ve decided that when I do switch over properly, I’ll buy a decent video card for my own PC which is dual core, more powerful anyway, and add another gig of RAM (planned upgrades for both PCs after xmas) and run it on here rather than a spare computer. Whatever its frustrations, I know I’m going to want it.

        What makes me laugh is that Vista only went to manufacture last Wednesday and already there are Ultimate copies all over the internet. Activation keys will surely follow! Not even businesses will receive it until the end of November with consumers waiting another couple of months. (Talk about zero day warez.)

        I don’t know if MS and security will ever really belong in the same sentence.

    • #3275998
      Avatar photo

      Well I don’t know if this means anything

      by hal 9000 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      But the Product Release is slated for 8 November 2006 here and here is the program for the release.

      18.00 Registration
      18.30 – 20.30 System Builders Event
      20.30 – 21.30 Drinks

      This is for both Vista and Office 2007 and I personally haven’t seen MS run something so short for a very long time. In 2 hours at the end of the day I’m not exactly sure just how much they will be able to push across. But it doesn’t appear as if MS is devoting much effort to this release when you consider that 2003 was an entire day and that product was only aimed at a small section of the market.

      MS AU didn’t even include this in their normal E-Mail notifications but posted out the invitations so you could register.

      The events start in Sydney on November 1 and finished in Adelaide on November 27 with releases in Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide in that order.

      Col

      • #3275369

        Sounds familuar

        by dawgit ·

        In reply to Well I don’t know if this means anything

        I see the same type of schedual here in Germany, except, it was anounced that they will not be intraducing Vista. But- it is on the schedual. ?:| Very few Cities are to be covered, and here in Stuttgart, it will be held in a Hotel outside of the city itself. (semi-suburb, part of the city some 20kms out from the center. In a 2nd rate Hotel. -Now, they want to save money? ?:| ) And it will be expensive too. (as opposed to the Open Sourse Program in a better location, and only 25 ?, and that for non-members. Members of course- Free.) I just can’t imagin what MS is thinking.

        • #3275871
          Avatar photo

          Well they are using the Brisbane Convention Centre here

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Sounds familuar

          Which is the normal place for product Releases with a major hotel in the heart of the city for the normal Road Shows. So here MS isn’t moving too far away from normal. Pity that the parking is so expensive as it’s going to cost about $25.00 for the night 2 + hours but the normal daily rate is only $9.00 per day that is get in before 8.45 AM and leave before 6.10 PM and you get it cheap but after that time the rates go through the roof.

          While it’s not MS Fault it gets very close to being cheaper to be dropped off there and catch a Cab home after the event which is probably what I’ll be doing.

          Col

        • #3274801

          hey hal i’m heading for the sydney darling harbour

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well they are using the Brisbane Convention Centre here

          convention centre on 2nd nov & i’m ready for some good old fashion questioning.You can expect to put on a few kilos from the frivoloties! enjoy.
          ta mick

        • #3274722
          Avatar photo

          Well if you can corner

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to hey hal i’m heading for the sydney darling harbour

          Mark O’Shea he always good for some honest answers. Mind you when he sees me he hides. 😀

          But he’s about the best that MS has here and will not candy coat things for the company that he works for. And while I don’t totally agree with him particularly about the lack of need to reload XP, he’s always good for an honest answer.

          I just find that his touted [b]Repairs[/b] take far longer than a wipe & reload and then you know you have removed any problems where as the way that he tells you to repair something is always good for hours of wasted time & effort. I prefer the 1 hour option of a clean install as apposed to the 13 hour repair.

          Col

        • #3216065

          i wont upset him by telling him that vista is crap

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well if you can corner

          No afterall they are giving free final vista dvds.
          we got to make ms look happy & contented.Ill
          have a few questions good up there.
          I’m looking forward to meeting all the other people from ms & all the visitors & share a few ideas.Remember the launch i think98 or 2000 ?? when Bill Gates was demonstrating the plug & play & it wouldn’t work & people were saying did he fire the guy who set it up??
          I find Ms launches pretty impressive apart from the freebies.
          How are you going at Brisbane & that launch?

          ta mick

        • #3216027
          Avatar photo

          Unfortunately Yes

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to i wont upset him by telling him that vista is crap

          November 8th is my birthday and they are running the show at the end of the day so I won’t even be able to get home sit down have a few drinks and relax.

          I just might have time for a shower before I have to go there. There are also giving out some shirts or something as I remember that I had to give them my size for something.

          Actually I find Mark pretty good and just provided you approach him the right way and ask for help with a problem he will bend over backward for you. He has learnt to avoid me because I never have an [b]Easy Problem[/b] they are all hard ones that take a lot of time & effort to sort out so he prefers me to ring him on his direct line when there is more time available and better still no true believers hanging around who just may hear that this isn’t the best thing since sliced bread.

          Col

        • #3218631

          no not quite

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i wont upset him by telling him that vista is crap

          no free dvds,yes on free coffee,free leaflets,hats & pens.Excellent presentation by MS of vista & office 2007.
          Regardless a most enjoyable day.I did’nt see Mark but i got to meet other people from MS & we spent 20 minutes discussing vista problems during the break.Strangely enough the ms people agreed with my comments on vista.We did agree that it’s a wonder vista is coming out when it was a complete failure before.
          We agreed that there were some improvements & technical hurdles to overccome.
          They said all most problems will be ironed out
          by a vista 2nd edition in 2009.
          The said sata drives were an ongoing problem.The don’t expect a huge uptake of vista.Not untill better hardware & drivers are available.Also ms will eventually get back to more sedate releases every 3 to 4 years.
          Have a happy birthday on the 8th nov 21 again??
          ta mick

        • #3218265
          Avatar photo

          I take it that the MS Give aways are the Time Bombs?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to i wont upset him by telling him that vista is crap

          The 120 Day Trial versions as MS like to call them from the technical side of things.

          I have those from 95 on wards and a pile about 2 feet high of other MS trial stuff.

          All great to have a play with but not good for much else.

          As for the 21 Again I’m not sure i gave up counting many years ago and my Demetre is kicking in as I don’t actually know my age but I can still tell you a part number of something that I used 20 + years ago. 😀

          Not sure yet if I’ll take a car in there and pay the parking or just get dropped off and catch a cab after the event. Either way it’s going to be a late night nd I’ll probably get a phone call around 4.30 AM to do a service call. Always happens when I set time aside for something. But Seagate has dropped an exam on me on the 10 November as well where I have to get a 70% mark to pass. After putting them off for a few years now I suppose that I had better go to this one. I can just see the questions now

          Q A HDD is

          1 a device to store things on.
          2 A funny looking squarish thing that makes strange noises and can get hot.
          3 Something that is used by computers only and not in anything else.

          Of course they will not accept that idea that any Microprocessor Controlled thing is a Computer so I suppose the correct answer would be 2 though under the right circumstances all 3 could be correct. :^0

          Col

      • #3138233

        Sorry couldn’t reply directly

        by moira ·

        In reply to Well I don’t know if this means anything

        Seems I reached the message limit 🙂 anyway, thanks for that, yeah you’re right, there’s every chance drivers for Biostar will be rolled out, it’s frustrating right now, but may not end up being much of an issue.

        And yes, I chose to install the 64 bit version and that historically has had poor driver support.

        • #3138211

          Yea right now I’m running X64 Ultimate

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Sorry couldn’t reply directly

          There are only a few anti virus programs-there are a few like AVG-Avast- I think also Symantic(which by the way I’d never use that resource hog) plus all of my 32 bit programs that I use work with this OS. Personally I think this OS is way better than XP-even tho it is a RC(2) build I’m now using 100% of the time on this PC.
          Mile

        • #3138044

          intel has an answer

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Yea right now I’m running X64 Ultimate

          Intel believes that malacious codes, viruses and other security threats may become a worry of the past. Inte’s R&D team is currently working on Trusted Execution Technlogy, previously known as LaGrande. Trusted Execution Technology or TXT will use hardware keys and subsystems to control what part of a computer’s resources can be accessed and who or what will be granted or denied access.
          ta mick

        • #3137959

          Using Avast too

          by moira ·

          In reply to Yea right now I’m running X64 Ultimate

          Yes, Avast works well with Vista, even the 64 bit version which I run. Really if it wasn’t for the Biostar problem, I’d be fairly happy with RC2. The scanner is one piece of hardware not recognised (not that I’ve tried to find suitable drivers but I’m not optimistic they exist). The printer worked straight off (the local printer anyway, which is actually quite old).

        • #3274808

          precisely my point

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Using Avast too

          with the advent of new drivers at a stand still many people may have to buy new compatible hardware.I have found that you could possibly substitute other drivers & try to fool the system to accept the.Worth a try.
          ta mick

        • #3274769

          As a side note on drivers-for XP to be installed on all 3

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to precisely my point

          Of my computers-to install the chipset drivers(network-sound-usb-firewire-agp plus others) I have to use a cd with system drivers on it. MS can only include those that the manufacturer’s write themselves and give to MS if they don’t write them MS cannot.
          MIke
          PS Who do you think knows the hardware better-the manufacturer’s or MS?

        • #3219004

          hey moira avast does work with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Using Avast too

          you are right it does work unlike some software like some of the adobe products
          & ulead products.
          ta mick

        • #3219001

          under the m-dollar website matt mondock

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to hey moira avast does work with vista

          calls vista : Updated list of Vista versions revealedWindows Vista Ultimate Crap * Windows Vista Home Basic N Crap * Windows Vista Business N Crap They will all come in one craptacular box with a piece of crap …so true
          check it out guys.
          ta mick

        • #3218998

          under tomshardware help question

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to under the m-dollar website matt mondock

          I think that’s the Vista Free-Crap Edition though 😆 What was the difference between the Vista free crap edition and the vista arm&leg edition again? …
          ta mick

        • #3218941

          Here comes the crap again

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to under the m-dollar website matt mondock

          and his name is g*******n.
          Mike

        • #3218943

          Adobe products & Ulead needs to be re written for

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to hey moira avast does work with vista

          Vista, since they want low level access-wait it won’t be long after Vista goes on the shelves that they will have new versions that work, but then being who you say you are, you already know that-RIGHT.
          Mike

        • #3222970

          i sure do

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Adobe products & Ulead needs to be re written for

          i’ts going to be a loooong time.
          mick

        • #3218908
          Avatar photo

          Michael you might like to have a go at this one

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to hey moira avast does work with vista

          http://tinyurl.com/y3p5a4

          Apparently this guy wants to know how to setup Remote Desktop in Vista currently he says he has it working internally but can not access the Vista Desktop from an external source.

          As this is something that I haven’t tried you most likely have a better chance of answering the question than I do.

          Col

        • #3218895

          I have not tried either

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Michael you might like to have a go at this one

          I may sometime but not soon.
          Mike

        • #3217905

          Err … I never said it didn’t

          by moira ·

          In reply to hey moira avast does work with vista

          I’m fully aware Avast works with Vista and if I posted otherwise then I apologise …. I’m using it myself with RC1 of the Vista 64 bit release.

        • #3217860

          your right moira

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Err … I never said it didn’t

          it does work no problem there.
          carry on.
          ta mick

        • #3138210

          Yea right now I’m running X64 Ultimate

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Sorry couldn’t reply directly

          There are only a few anti virus programs-there are a few like AVG-Avast- I think also Symantic(which by the way I’d never use that resource hog) plus all of my 32 bit programs that I use work with this OS. Personally I think this OS is way better than XP-even tho it is a RC(2) build I’m now using 100% of the time on this PC.
          Mike

        • #3138053

          what software are you running

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Yea right now I’m running X64 Ultimate

          i’m having trouble with the dvd decoder.Also i’m running ulead video editor 8 & having problems constant errors such as elements not linking etc loosing work eventually.I think software is not compatible.
          ta mick

        • #3274896

          gsaravin I thought you said you tested all the versions

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to what software are you running

          Vista Home Premium/Ultimate will play DVD’s from first install. As for Ulead Video Editor the included DVD Maker and Movie maker included is much better. Home Basic does not have the decoder so on thisyou will have hope somebody will make one, which will more than likely happen.
          As far as incompatiblities this always happens with a new OS.
          Mike

        • #3274806

          what i mean’t to say is the media player dvd decoder

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gsaravin I thought you said you tested all the versions

          the problems i’m having with ulead video editor 8 is that the actual scene footage sometimes does not link together & there
          are freezeups & i end up loosing my work.
          I would say that i may have to use other software in the mean time.But i have tried all versions of vista & what i was meaning to say is what software programs have you worked with,also what problems have you encountered along the way.
          I can say that there needs to be a bit more improvement before i can say yay or nay.
          ta mick

          ps are you personally going to the november
          launch of the release of vista.

        • #3274772

          Actually Media Player use the decoder of the program

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to what i mean’t to say is the media player dvd decoder

          you install. Media Player does not have a decoder in VIsta Basic/Business versions.
          On programs I use
          1 Jarte a free wordprocessor based on wordpad
          (by the way it works on both 86/x64 versions)
          2 WeatherPulse-helps keep track of weather
          3 AsusLogic disk defrager
          4 Avast antivirus(x64)
          5 MS OneCare(86)
          6 QST Handbook
          7 QRZ Callbook
          8 For video editing I use what’s included in Vista
          9 Acrobat Reader
          10 QuickTime
          11 QST Callbook
          12 MS Office (beta)
          With RC2 I don’t have any problems. As to the launch-Since I chose to not recieve dvd’s of Vista-I hope I win the chance to be there-not enough money otherwise.
          I have seen tons of improvement otherwise I would still have XP installed on this PC. I still Dual boot but both are Vista(x86/x64)Ultimate. I spend 99.9% of my time in x64 version. I think my tv and dvd movies look better in Media Center, plus recorded TV show look better and with included software is easer to burn to dvd. With DVD maker I can remove commercials from the movie very easlly-put in chapters with no problems.
          Mike

        • #3274802

          i was meaning to say that i was having problems with the media player

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gsaravin I thought you said you tested all the versions

          as the dvd decoder does not function properly.
          also i was using ulead vid 8 editing software,where i was loosing footage as the links were lost due to corruption.I could not save my work.Nevertheless i’m going to try other editing software.
          ta mick

    • #3218629

      re vista

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      vista still needs more work done on stability & compatibilty
      ta mick

    • #3218483

      MS has changed the EULA-now I’m satisfied

      by michael l hereid sr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      MS relented hobbiest can now transer to new homebuilt pc. Read for your self
      http://news.com.com/Microsoft+backtracks+on+Vista+transfer+limits/2100-1016_3-6131900.html?tag=nefd.lede
      Mike

      • #3217362

        it’s about time they did

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to MS has changed the EULA-now I’m satisfied

        if ms ran any tighter they would sink,it’s about time.
        ta mick

        • #3217359

          hal, no time bombs this time

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to it’s about time they did

          you know there was a segate stand in the pavillion.If you filled in their survey you could win their 2.5 gig microdrive.You could ask any question on harddrives.Acoording to thedemonstrator he said harddrives will not change they will always be the same.
          ta mick

        • #3217356

          the lunch was nice,no alcahol though

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to it’s about time they did

          lunch was very nice & we wandered through the various stands.we were laden with information.The ms people knew their stuff & strutted real positive spin.They were ready for any questions.They did admit there were teething problems with vista & they said all will be eventually resolved in a vista 2nd release edition 2009 ??.
          They also said that
          MS would be better prepared & would release a new system avery couple of years.
          The also admitted to all the problems they have been having & were very sorry for all the delays.
          Ta mick

      • #3217354

        ms is not going to chase the vendors for drivers

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to MS has changed the EULA-now I’m satisfied

        it’s the vendors who need to supply their drivers & ms is not going to chase them like it did in the past.
        ta mick

        • #3218991

          pc consumers are going to be dissapointed when

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms is not going to chase the vendors for drivers

          they are not going to get their drivers for their vista systems in time for the release in january 07.
          most vendors have said that they will not release their drivers untill all the dust has settled for vista.
          ta mick

        • #3218933

          Like all the other posts you have made

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to pc consumers are going to be dissapointed when

          you are so full of it. Those vendors may surprise you. Besides most people will get their Vista pc’s from OEM’s. When XP came out a lot of hardware was not compatible-in other words no drivers. But look what was availible just 6 months later. I had XP 3 months before most other people and all my hardware worked, just as Vista RC2 does now on my pc.
          Mike

    • #3219014

      TO PROVE HOW POPULAR THIS POSTING IS

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      SOMEONE HAS STARTED A WEWBSITE IN IT’S HONOUR:its called “gary pool s.e.o.”
      search engine optimisation.in that he has got the quoteHere is a post I found in TechRepublic forums. Being a Mac guy I have to work hard to keep up on Microsoft products. I found this entry about Longhorn uhm, I mean Vista very intersting. Anyone else have any information they would like to share about the new M$?s OS?
      yeah,yeah vista it’s a total crap system.
      ta mick
      guys thanks for the feedback you have made us famous with over 800 postings!!!!

    • #3217614

      It is Offical Vista is RTM

      by michael l hereid sr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Jim Alchin announced Vista in now RTM. Yes in January 30th when you get to buy VIsta there will probably be updates to be installed but I think most people will like this OS.
      Mike

      • #3217559
        Avatar photo

        Strange the people from M$ didn’t mention this last night

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to It is Offical Vista is RTM

        But then again they seriously believe that when Vista and Office 2007 rolls out it will be as big as the release of 95.

        Now the OPK system has been massively improved but there are a few drawbacks the first is that system builders are encouraged to slipstream Office 2007 to every new computer but depending on which version the customer buys they get a different reaction from the product key that they install and is handed to them by the OEM Maker or it can sit there as a 60 day trial and once this 60 days expires it will no longer work. However we’ll not be able to supply restore media this will now be a special order from MS with a Postage & Handling charge that will come on top of the License fee to be paid by the customer. I and everyone else see this as a major problem as it goes against everything that we have been telling our customers for years now [b]If you don’t get the Install Media it most likely a Pirate Copy![/b] Of course people like Dell and HP don’t need to do this so there are different rules & regulations for different Business who supply M$ product.

        As of last night they didn’t even have a firm price for the Postage and Handling 3 different speakers quoted 3 different prices for the same thing ranging from $23.00 to $35.00 AU per Disc.

        On the up side M$ now want very system builder to have at least 3 OPK install sets that they can copy and use to install from and we will no longer be restricted to needing to buy 3 copies and hope that the OPK Disc is in the sealed package. Most times they just where not there and they where very hard to get your hands on. M$ is now providing a Cloning tool so you can load 1 HDD and then clone it to as many drives as you like and with the possibility to actually install every computer that you build from the 1 load no matter the hardware load the required sub headings can be on a USB Stick to pick & chose the different elements to install and the Cloning Utility is [b]Free[/b] that is something that was said at least 20 times last night and every time that a question was asked about it the standard reply was [b]It’s Free![/b]

        Apparently the Bulk Loading of HDD is no longer considered as Piracy by M$ which was something that was brought in with XP that’s a great move ahead I just wonder will M$ refund everyone that they hit for doing this on XP now that they are again welcoming it with open arms?

        When you did this with 98 Y2K NT you where doing the right thing but when XP came out you had to individually install each machine now common sense has returned and not before time.

        The Official COA for Office that was shown to us last night can be run off on a colour photocopier/Laser Printer so I really am slightly concerned about possible misunderstands of Piracy between new customers and the builders. We can buy the COA’s in bulk from MS and just hand them out with new computers so that the new customer can enter their Code and activate their new Office Product. I hope this changes or I can see the potential for many more false reports to M$’s Anti Piracy Hotline and the dealers will be wearing the brunt of these complaints.

        Now as M$ are claiming that there is a 30% instance of Piracy they have started to incorporate a similar technology to WGA into Office called SGA which if not passed will not allow updates or templates to be downloaded and will prevent things like the new 2007 Accounting program as well.

        The M$ people where very proud of themselves when they claimed that WGA had only broken 1% of [b]Legal Software[/b] unfortunately for them many didn’t agree with this statement and had many complaints with the way that WGA was working. One dealer even complained that WGA had broken the software in his Action Pack so why was M$ selling him Pirate Software every year? That was a hard one to get around. 😀

        The other big thing that I noticed was that I didn’t recognise anyone there either all the old OEM builders didn’t bother to turn up or they have gone broke as I do know of several of the bigger shops here that have closed their doors attempting to keep in line with M$ licensing policies, but to be honest they are replaced with others who seem to think that they will make a killing in a few months and be able to retire on the profits. 😀

        If you are interested I can open a new discussion of the entire meeting and what information was passed on to us.

        After the meeting ended and the general questions had run their course I approached the speakers and spoke to the Vista Guy about WGA and other things I didn’t initially complain but I did explain how I was constantly being reported for supplying Pirated Software to 1 Government Department and that I never actually supplied anything at all I was just fixing up their mess that had been created there on a Volume License Product. He promised to have my name & company removed from the complaints list but personally I’m not holding my breath but it will be a pleasant surprise if it happens.

        Col

        • #3217856

          your right hal

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Strange the people from M$ didn’t mention this last night

          the whole licensing thing is one big mishmash as M$ tries to stamp out piracy.The good thing is you can now image
          virtually anything & install from anywhere via network.Of course the cost gets passed t the consumer.M$ hared at length how much money is saved.
          ta mick

      • #3222974

        what software applications do you run on vista

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to It is Offical Vista is RTM

        what software do you run on vista is it 32 bit or 64 bit.
        pray tell
        ta mick

        • #3222852

          My applications

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to what software applications do you run on vista

          are all 32 bit except for what is in the operating system-as a IT Expert you knw there are not that many YET.
          Running 32 bit
          Avast-antivirus
          Weather Pulse-local weather(desktop)
          Jarte-Free Word processor (based on MS Wordpad)
          Adobe Reader
          Games Too many to list
          Spybot Search & Destroy
          Ad Aware(finds very few spyware-guess they will have find a differant way)
          AsusLogic Defragmenter
          Plus just like when Xp was RTM’d-MS will be working very hard to get more applications to work
          Mike

    • #3225842

      from news week news of browser wars

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Fake Sites Insist Microsoft Bought Firefox

      The parody sites tout the new Microsoft browser as “It’s better now like seriously,” but actually download Internet Explorer 7.

      By Gregg Keizer
      InformationWeek

      Nov 9, 2006 11:55 AM

      Tongue-in-cheek Web sites are claiming that Microsoft Corp. purchased Mozilla Corp.’s Firefox browser and then renamed it “Microsoft Firefox 2007 Professional Edition.” However, when you try to download the new Web browser you actually get a copy of the Redmond, Wash. developer’s for-real Internet Explorer 7.

      Two sites — http://www.msfirefox.com and http://www.msfirefox.net — both direct to similar parodies that tout the newly purchased browser as “It’s better now like seriously” and sport IE 7-esque features, including one dubbed “Cut Away Effect,” which disables rendering of nine-tenths of a page to “save system resources.” It also claims: “This is not a bug.”

      Other faux features include Firefox 2007’s “TakeOver” technology that, according to the site, “protects the Windows Kernel by automatically recognizing all McAfee and Symantec programs as viruses.”

      In the last two months, Symantec and McAfee have both publicly criticized Microsoft for the PatchGuard technology in the 64-bit of Windows Vista, claiming that it blocks their access to the kernel and makes it impossible for them to create advanced security features.

      The “Microsoft Firefox 2007” system requirements also tip toward the absurd. On the http://www.msfirefox.net site, the list includes “A Credit Card” and “Microsoft Office 2007 (Provides the ability to scroll webpages).”

      Another feature claims that “Visiting the following sites using MS Firefox 2007 will cause your computer to shut down unexpectedly,” then lists examples such as Google, iTunes, Apple, and Yahoo. The final item on the banned list: “Any sites with the phrase: microsoft/windows/explorer/vista/bill sucks.”

      Any attempt to actually download the bogus Microsoft Firefox 2007 Professional Edition from http://www.msfirefox.com actually retrieves Internet Explorer 7, Microsoft’s real browser. A download from http://www.msfirefox.net, however, pulls down a copy of Mozilla’s Firefox 2.0 for Windows.

      As of early Thursday morning, the http://www.msfirefox.com site was available; later in the morning, however, it was offline. The http://www.msfirefox.net site remained up.

      Neither site’s owner could be tracked down. The .com site’s domain owner’s information was cloaked by a privacy feature of the registrar, while the information for the .net owner was clearly fake.
      cheers guys
      mick

    • #3225841

      beta news on vista not needing antivirus

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Allchin Suggests Vista Won’t Need Antivirus
      By Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews
      November 9, 2006, 4:26 PM
      During a telephone conference with reporters yesterday, outgoing Microsoft co-president Jim Allchin, while touting the new security features of Windows Vista, which was released to manufacturing yesterday, told a reporter that the system’s new lockdown features are so capable and thorough that he was comfortable with his own seven-year-old son using Vista without antivirus software installed.

      Allchin’s statement came in response to a question about his relative level of confidence that Vista would be more secure than Windows XP SP2. In response, he noted there were key security features added to Vista which could not be added to Windows XP SP2 even though, he said, his people apparently tried to do so.

      Two such features — namely Vista’s new parental controls, and Address Space Layout Randomization (ASLR), which renders the object code of the system kernel in memory differently each time to thwart the designs of malicious code — render his son’s Vista machine comfortable enough for him to use, even though production-quality anti-virus software for the unit has yet to be completed.

      “I would say that Windows XP SP2 did an amazing job, and I’m proud of what we did there. But you have to understand, we learned a lot during Windows XP SP2, and there were things that we couldn’t put in that product,” explained Allchin.

      “I’ll give you an example: It’s my favorite feature within Windows Vista, it’s called ASLR (Address Space [Layout] Randomization). What it does is, each Windows Vista machine is slightly different than every other Windows Vista machine. So even if there is a remote exploit on one machine, and a worm tries to jump from one machine to another, the probability of that actually succeeding is very small. And I wanted to do this in Windows XP SP2, but we couldn’t figure out how to do it. So then a smart guy here came up with a solution, so we put it in Windows Vista.”

      After summarizing that past statement, Allchin continued, “Please don’t misunderstand me: This is an escalating situation. The hackers are getting smarter, there’s more at stake, and so there’s just no way for us to say that some perfection has been achieved. But I can say, knowing what I know now, I feel very confident.”

      “I’ll give you an example: My son, seven years old, runs Windows Vista, and, honestly, he doesn’t have an antivirus system on his machine. His machine is locked down with parental controls, he can’t download things unless it’s to the places that I’ve said that he could do, and I’m feeling totally confident about that,” he added. “That is quite a statement. I couldn’t say that in Windows XP SP2.”

      Allchin led up to that comment after having recalled the company’s Defense-in-Depth program, which emerged in 2004 as a way to assist software in defending specifically against viruses, but which evolved into a comprehensive anti-malware campaign.

      As a result of Defense-in-Depth, Allchin told the reporter, Service Pack 2 of Windows XP made it substantially more difficult for malware to get to the kernel.

      “So we’ve just put up one barrier after another,” he said, “so that the end result is, in the percentages, when I look at the number of bulletins that we’ve produced over a period of time for Windows XP SP2, and I look at what I would expect to take place in terms of, not just the number, but probably more important, the severity for Windows Vista, we have been doing measurements of that all along, and it’s my opinion that the severity of the bulletins will be less, as well as the number will be less.

      “That’s to be proven, so we will see about that. But I need to say the following: Windows Vista is something that will have issues in security, because the bar is being raised over time,” Allchin continued. “But in my opinion, it is the most secure system that’s available, and it’s certainly the most secure system that we’ve shipped. So I feel very confident that customers are far better off by using Windows Vista than they are with anything that we’ve released before.”

      ASLR would apparently have been a component of Defense-in-Depth, based on Allchin’s comments, had it been compatible with the existing architecture of Windows XP. In fact, ASLR may help substantiate the need for such features as PatchGuard, which is designed to draw a kind of “moat” around the kernel of the operating system, rendering it inaccessible accept through authenticated communications.

      But the evolution of the Defense-in-Depth program, he implied, may have evolved its implementation in Vista beyond the need for the generation of antivirus protection that was its original impetus.
      cheers
      mick

      • #3225838

        microsoft defends windows kernel stance regards

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to beta news on vista not needing antivirus

        64 bit:
        In an interview with Computerworld, Stephen Toulouse, senior product manager with Microsoft?s security technology unit, explained his company?s position.
        Excerpts from that interview follow:
        Why did Microsoft decide to restrict access to the 64-bit Windows kernel? The biggest concern has been rootkits that can hide themselves from detection software and anti-virus software. When you have a situation where code that is not part of the operating system can run at the same level as the kernel, that is not good because the kernel can?t necessarily figure out what is good and what is bad.
        In the 32-bit version of the [operating system] there has always been these undocumented and unsupported ways of modifying the kernel while it is running. That introduced stability problems, performance problems and security problems because attackers can use them, as well. These unsupported, undocumented ways of modifying the kernel have never been used by Microsoft and their use by other vendors is frowned on. We don?t believe that it is good for the user experience to modify the kernel while it is running. When changes are made to it in unsupported fashion, you introduce instability.
        So, what we felt the right thing to do for the 64-bit platform was to prevent the use of these unsupported functions and instead try to implement safer documented ways of implementing the same functionality.
        What does Patch Guard do for Windows? I think it is important first off from our perspective to note that one of the things that customers have been very clear about with Windows and all of our products is that we?ve got to fundamentally raise the security of those products. That has been very, very clear feedback from our customers. One of the ways we are doing that on our 64-bit platform is this implementation that is known as kernel patch protection or Patch Guard. It is actually not new. We have been shipping operating systems with kernel patch protection for a couple of years now. The feature is also in Windows XP 64 and Windows Server 2003, 64-bit.
        The goal around Patch Guard is to help make a more stable, reliable and secure experience for the customer. It prevents the unsupported and undocumented modification of the kernel. If it detects [that the kernel] has been modified or something is attempting to modify it, Patch Guard will automatically shut the system down to prevent an attack.
        Does Patch Guard prevent third parties from offering specific features in security applications? There are supported ways to run code in kernel mode and things of that nature. One of the things we have been asking software vendors is, ?To the extent you are using this functionality, what are you using it for and how can we help you implement that in a safe way??
        Some security vendors were offering what is known as deep-packet inspection of network traffic. That is a very valuable feature that is certainly something customers want and need and that is being provided today by third parties. So we implemented something known as the Windows Filtering Platform so that [independent software vendors] could talk to the protocol in the network interface directly. Other companies were modifying the kernel in place to look at everything that goes in and out of the file system, so we also implemented something called File System Filters to allow them to do that. So really all Patch Guard does is prevent use of these unsupported and undocumented interfaces. We are committed to working with the software vendors to implement their functionality in a safe way.
        Symantec and McAfee also say that Windows Security Centre, as implemented in Vista, will result in user confusion because there is no way to disable the dashboard?even when the user installs a third-party security dashboard. First of all, Windows Security Centre is not a product. It does not provide any protection. All it is meant to do is to provide a vendor-agnostic view of security in the operating system across different baseline categories. The first one is anti-virus; there is anti-spyware, firewall and then there is Automatic Updates. The goal here is to kind of have it be like Device Manager.
        If you look at Device Manager in the operating system that?s a place where?no matter who makes the hardware, whether it is a Microsoft mouse or a Logitech mouse?your Device Manager tells you the status and you can update that as you need. We wanted to provide that for security because customers let us know that they were really looking for one place to know their correct status. The goal of Windows Security Centre is simply a notification service that third parties can plug into. If they wish to provide their own security centre that has more categories and much more functionality, we think that is great. But we believe the baseline of the operating system should still have that notification for the user across those fundamental categories. The reason we are concerned about allowing the automatic and silent disabling of the service is that you really can?t guarantee that it will be enabled on uninstall and that will leave the user vulnerable. If the user does not want to see our security centre it is very easy to disable it.
        How would you respond to the complaints of Symantec and McAfee? These guys are our partners. Windows Vista is not going to be a silver bullet that by itself is going to solve all security problems. We believe that we have done a significant amount of work to increase the baseline security of the operating system like customers asked us to but also to help maintain choice. We have provided those vendors with unprecedented access to the development of the operating system. They have had office space on campus, lab space, direct contact with our developers?just, really, an unprecedented level of support.
        What we are trying to say is, ?Look, customers have provided us with this feedback that we?ve really got to fundamentally increase the security of the operating system. To do that, we have got to make some hard choices, and when we make those hard choices, we are going to lean toward protecting the customers. Unfortunately, there are some vendors out there who want the operating system to be insecure. They really want things to stay the way they are.
        ta mick

        • #3225833

          mainly for video editing/data bases

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to microsoft defends windows kernel stance regards

          basically databases & video editing.
          ta mick

        • #3222982

          why does ms bother

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to microsoft defends windows kernel stance regards

          A majority of x86 PCs still use processors that do not support x86-64 and even now x64-32 processors are still manufactured and in the sales channel. Without a 32 bit version of Vista, not only would these older systems be left without a Windows upgrade earlier then neccessary but both these systems and some applications would be lost to alternative non Windows operating systems.

          ta mick

        • #3222979

          to all you doubters i was right the kernel can be

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to why does ms bother

          easily hacked.
          via news.softpedia.com) ? “Hackers have already broken PatchGuard and can disable it. This means that hackers can already get malicious code into the Windows Vista kernel; while legitimate security vendors can no longer protect it.
          Ms cannot guarrantee protection of the vista kernel Microsoft may be eyeing the Anti-virus market. Indeed, this is a very lucrative business, given that everyone running MS code is insecure, nomatter how much they “lock” their kernel.

        • #3222977

          re windows vista 64 bit

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to to all you doubters i was right the kernel can be

          previous note from george ous comment on vista 64 bit applies
          Note on x64 Operating Systems
          X64 platforms will run both 32 and 64 bit software at full speed but x64 systems will only work with 64 bit drivers. Applications can either be 32 or 64 bit but device drivers MUST be 64 bit and they must be digitally signed by the vendor in order for them to be accepted by Vista x64.
          a lot of people have missed this important bit just because it runs it doesn’t mean it’s running at 64 bit!!!
          ta mick

        • #3222866

          But as a ITexpert -you know that

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to re windows vista 64 bit

          the drivers are 64bit and because the x64 cpu has double the data paths of the 32bit cpu-the 32bit application will run faster. But then you knew that RIGHT.
          Mike

        • #3222778
          Avatar photo

          But what about the legalities

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to But as a ITexpert -you know that

          Of the coming Digital Signing of Software to work on Vista? Currently anything will run well mostly but when M$ release their 2 year update it is going to force you to run only Software that is Digitally Signed to work with Vista. M$ argument is that this is to make the Windows System far more secure but if they follow the Digital Signing Agreement with Software that they have with Hardware will it even be legal?

          More impotently how many Software Houses will be willing to write M$ only Software when they currently have support for different platforms?

          I suppose that with M$ agreement with Apple that they will still be able to support that platform Maybe but as M$ has not as yet said exactly what they are planing with this Digital Signing of Software I’m personally not sure just how good it’s going to be for the Computing world.

          While I can see the benefits of Digital Signing of Hardware I’m not even sure that the conditions that M$ impose to get that certificate is even legal. It might be in the US but it certainly isn’t here though I suppose that the cases will be fought in Europe by the EU who seem bent on breaking M$ monopoly standing that they currently have on the market.

          Col

        • #3139444

          ah, I don’t believe…

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to But as a ITexpert -you know that

          it works quite that way. ?:| Sorry, but in the references I’ve seen, your math is just a tad too simple. It’s not going to be exactly double just because the CPU is of 2x the bit rate (2 x 32 ≠ 64, not quite) Also, from what I have learned, when a M$ 64 bit OS (any) then has 32 bit programs (any type) introduced, the whole OS switches to 32 bit automaticly. (If that’s changed somebody say so, please.)
          Anyway, please tell us (me) just how you can tell if a particular piece of an operating system is 32 bit. (or even if the rest of, or the base of, the OS, is in fact 64 bit.) What test program is that?
          -d

        • #3139412
          Avatar photo

          Dave that’s what M$ has said

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to But as a ITexpert -you know that

          And that is how I understand that the 64 Bit version of both Vista and 2003 works.

          I only believe that because the people at M$ have said so at several of the Partner Meetings and without the 64 Bit Software it’s a bit hard to call them liars. 😀

          Col

        • #3219419

          I never said twice as fast-just faster

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to But as a ITexpert -you know that

          Because a x86 cpu has 16 data paths into the cpu, through and out-a x64 has double or 32 paths in the cpu. Because of the data paths -a 32bit program won’t be twice as fast but because it can use all 32 it will run faster.
          Mike

        • #3222868

          As usual you post something and then don’t give link

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to to all you doubters i was right the kernel can be

          Besides that on what are they basing the hack on? As for vendors protecting the kernal -companies like Symantic or MacAfee sorry but those 2 companies products I don’t want anywhere near my OS. I have had to fix too many problems caused by these companies on other people’s pc’s.
          Besides Patchguard is only in the X64 version of Vista.
          Mike

          PS Patchguard is only 1 small part of the total security added to Vista.

        • #3222760

          just recently it was proven that hackers got inside the kernel

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to As usual you post something and then don’t give link

          Also it was stated that the door is fully open for malware to hackin.There are commentators who say we are not any better off actually the reverse.Also much worse
          the announcement that 64 bit is hackable by malware,so it was only a matter of time.
          Also i have just heard that vista rc2 has been hacked & it’s got no serial no prompt.
          & also the time limit is indefinte.
          So all in all i was right when ms comes up with the goods i’ll be the first to say congrats.
          ta mick

        • #3139525

          ms is doomed in europe

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to just recently it was proven that hackers got inside the kernel

          The European Union has given software giant Microsoft Corp until Thursday Nov 23 to submit the secret protocols of its Windows operating system to rivals or face the prospect of more fines, EU competition commissioner Neelie Kroes said in an interview with The Guardian newspaper.

          ‘I don’t have eternal life,’ Kroes said.

          ‘I am not impressed if someone says 90 percent of the information is already there when we need 100 percent. It’s a jigsaw and some parts are missing … In my opinion, this information should have been here a couple of months ago.’

          The US company has long clashed with the EU Commission over the crushing market power of its existing Windows operating system and was fined a record 497 mln eur in March 2004.

          Frustrated with Microsoft’s defiance against some of its demands, in July the Commission imposed daily fines adding up to 280.5 mln eur over the six-month period of the penalty for failing to fully respect the 2004 antitrust ruling. Microsoft is appealing against that charge.

          In March this year Kroes also sounded the alarm about Vista possibly breaking competition law and since then Brussels and Microsoft have held talks on the issue.
          ta mick

        • #3139463

          “MS is doomed in Europe ” we still not heard from the court

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to just recently it was proven that hackers got inside the kernel

          If the Court rules in favor of MS-guess you will be just like all other ABMers-MS bought their way out of it again. I just love the way you charcters are always saying this but then that is their/your opinion not proof.
          But then you almost always never have proof do you.
          Mike

        • #3219415

          Who said this-who are the commentators you say they said this but where is

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to just recently it was proven that hackers got inside the kernel

          As usual a comment from you with no proof.
          Yes RC2 has a serial-alsoit’s good till June of 2007-then it won’t work.
          Oh by the way I’m running RTM right now andit is great.
          Mike

        • #3288583

          graphic cards that don’t utilise directx 9

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to why does ms bother

          will not work with cards that are like geforce 4 with open gl will not work on the aero interface on vista.Vista uses the pixel shader 2.0 which is a problem if your card does not support direct x 9.
          ta mick

        • #3288579

          problems with vista visuals

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to graphic cards that don’t utilise directx 9

          it’s been proven that the visuals in vista come at a heavy price that the actuall sap the resources & hog the system.
          ta mick

        • #3288526

          So what

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to graphic cards that don’t utilise directx 9

          Most people that buy OEM pc’s don’t do much other than surf the web and write e-mail. The ones that will buy Vista will more than likely have already updated their video cards and memory.
          Mike

        • #3288471

          I don’t see it…

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to So what

          How do you figure that? Personally I just don’t see a whole lot of people who are willing -or- wise (or dumb enough, depending on ones view-point) enough to want to do that. Not just to surf around. If it comes to them packaged up nice and neet, maybe, other wise, nope. That’s just market hype, and not reality.
          Business, on the other hand, who have waited to upgrade their systems, are discusted, and tired of the hype. (there, in that market, we’re talking 20,000 Nodes a pop)

        • #3288451

          This Argument

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to I don’t see it…

          Has been going on since the switch from Win 3.1 to 95 to 98 to ME to 2000 to XP.

          Each time people do purchase it, do migrate, etc.

          I will admit, however, that it does seem like each time the older OS’s do hang on longer and longer.

          But I don’t think that is Microsoft putting out crappy products. I think that is quite the opposite.

          Each new generation of OS seems to get better and better. I ran a laptop at home running Win 98 until about a year ago. I still have a laptop on Win 2000. Both OS’s worked great.

          So yes, I think the adoption rates are slowing over time, however, it isn’t because somehow Vista sucks. It’s because Win 2000 and XP are still doing a great job, but Vista will do it better.

        • #3288443

          True

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to I don’t see it…

          Those points (as well as the other post: ‘Bottom Line’, below) are from me but you are right also
          “… because Win 2000 and XP are still doing a great job,…”
          a valid point and very true. And a point on which I base my statement.
          “… but Vista will do it better.”
          not yet. at least not for at least for the next 5 years. This speaking from a Pro-&-Techi view point.
          as for the consumer market, that’s entirely too fickel to count on.
          The point is, at this point no-one can say it’s the (only) way to go.

        • #3288444

          You need more than directx 9

          by moira ·

          In reply to graphic cards that don’t utilise directx 9

          I wish directx 9 was all you needed for the full Vista experience. Unfortunately you’re going to need a 3D video card with at least 128MB memory, which I think sucks just for an operating system. I’d rather see the resources put into a sleeker, more efficient way of running Windows.

        • #3290364

          Who Doesn’t Have a 128MB Card

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to You need more than directx 9

          You don’t need it for business use nor would you have it anyways.

          But most home users, especially anyone playing games, will already have one.

        • #3290361

          Onboard graphics is fine for a lot of people

          by moira ·

          In reply to Who Doesn’t Have a 128MB Card

          I don’t have more than onboard graphics here. They’re maybe better than default, but not god enough to display aero in Vista. I’m getting a PCI express card at xmas so this PC can fully utilize Vista. At the moment the PC running Vista does have a good enough card, but that’s my spare PC and eventually I want it on my own machine.

          Why would I want a dedicated graphics card? I’m not a gamer, I don’t use CAD programs or anything. Plenty of people have no use for a 3D video card – to say “who doesn’t have one” is a being a bit underinformed.

        • #3290344

          Moira

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Who Doesn’t Have a 128MB Card

          And then I went on to say that business users that don’t have a 128MB video card shouldn’t care because Aero Glass should mean nothing to them anyways.

          Any OS and not just Windows means a lot of things to a lot of different people. Business users should be more interested in security, manageability, reliability, etc.

          Home users are more impressed with eye candy, to a large extent security as well, new features, etc.

          But to listen to some people complain that Aero Glass is a waste and then turn around and complain that it needs a better video card is ridiculous.

          You either want it or not. If you want it, get a video card that can handle it. If you don’t want it, disable it. That simple.

        • #3290341
          Avatar photo

          In answer to your question Rick

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Who Doesn’t Have a 128MB Card

          A lot of the new growth market Note Books don’t have this and are incapable of having it fitted.

          Col

        • #3290302

          rickk – you miss the point

          by moira ·

          In reply to Who Doesn’t Have a 128MB Card

          Speaking as a home user, I’m not “impressed by eye candy”, I’d rather see development of an operating system that concentrates on security, functionality, cross compatibility and efficient use of reasonable resources. To have to upgrade a graphics card just to get the most out of an operating systems is ridiculous.

          However, since we’re stuck with Vista as it is, and we can’t change it, then I want to see what it is capable of and try out its features. Having got an ultimate 64 bit version, am I really going to leave it running on a PC mainly used by other people (which has an adequate graphics card) and *not* install it on here?

        • #3290267

          Growth Market Notebooks

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Who Doesn’t Have a 128MB Card

          Precisely.

          Growth market notebooks aren’t exactly the target market for Vista anyways.

          Put Linux on them or put some watered down versions of XP or Vista that are specifically designed for lesser powered machines.

          Nice try. Try again.

        • #3290213
          Avatar photo

          Rick how about this

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Who Doesn’t Have a 128MB Card

          After the 27th I’ll download a M$ Partners Power point slide show that was used at the most recent M$ Partners meeting and you can read it directly from M$ presentation about what is the growth market and what they are primarily aiming Vista At. Incidentally if you would like to know at the last 2 M$ Partners meetings every M$ Speaker has been using a Note Book loaded with Vista as a demonstration platform. Admittedly at the one in May they only had Beta 2 installed and the one in November they where using RC2.

          Now granted they are using the High End NB’s but as most people will not be looking at a 5K + AU NB I’m wondering just how many will be satisfied with the sub 1K Dells that are currently being sold off claiming that they are Vista Ready.

          Sorry that I can’t get the PP slide show before the 27 but as the current round of Partner meetings don’t finish till them MS will not place them on the Members Web Site for download so you are going to have to wait till M$ make them available.

          Col

        • #3288575

          New drm technologies are setting up vista for failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to why does ms bother

          fom computerworldPetManimal writes
          “Computerworld has picked apart the way Vista handles DRM in terms of hardware and software restrictions. Trusted Platform Module, Output Protection Management, Protected Video Path and various Windows Media software components are designed to ‘protect’ copyrighted content against security breaches and unauthorized use. The article notes that many of the DRM technologies were forced upon Vista by the entertainment industry, but that may not garner Microsoft or Hollywood any sympathy with consumers: ‘Matt Rosoff, lead analyst at research firm Directions On Microsoft, asserts that this process does not bode well for new content formats such as Blu-ray and HD-DVD, neither of which are likely to survive their association with DRM technology. “I could not be more skeptical about the viability of the DRM included with Vista, from either a technical or a business standpoint,” Rosoff stated. “It’s so consumer-unfriendly that I think it’s bound to fail ? and when it fails, it will sink whatever new formats content owners are trying to impose.”‘”
          ta mick

    • #3139523

      vista is not quite there even with rtm

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Here’s a typical latest vista install comment “iI installed RTM (6000) today, and I’m actually somewhat surprised to see that it isn’t quite there yet. The installation failed to detect my Sound Blaster Audigy (Creative’s website still only has beta drivers), and even with drivers, my HP S20 scanner will not properly install. Also, the biggest shock of all is the problems with AOL Instant Messenger v5 STILL haven’t been fixed — this bug is going to seriously piss off millions of users who get a new PC or upgrade and can’t get it to work.

      Anyway, Vista is going to become my primary OS, but I still need to keep my XP partition active in order to scan….this reminds me of when I had to throw out my old Visioneer scanner since it ONLY worked in 98, and a 2000/XP driver was never released.
      vista is not totally there is just the tip of the iceberg.
      ta mick

      • #3139478

        How did he get RTM when OEM’s/Technet or MSDN do not have it yet

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to vista is not quite there even with rtm

        Besides Creative makes good products but lousy software. I have not used them for my sound for over 6 years because of it.

        “this reminds me of when I had to throw out my old Visioneer scanner since it ONLY worked in 98, and a 2000/XP driver was never released”

        On this you have to blame the manufacturer not MS.
        Mike

        • #3219319

          precisely what i’ve been saying

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to How did he get RTM when OEM’s/Technet or MSDN do not have it yet

          expect to see more & more equipment to be ditched as drivers not certified by ms may not work with vista.
          Ms is not going to make the effort to chase manufacturers.Consumers will have to check
          before they buy for compatibility& drivers.
          ta mick

        • #3219236
          Avatar photo

          I noticed this yesterday with an A Bit M’Board

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to precisely what i’ve been saying

          The Sound drivers for the Built in 7.1 Surround Sound on an Intel Duo M’Board are not Certified for you with XP. Apparently the Realtech ones are not supported or at least given a Digital Certificate for XP.

          This could be a real problem when it comes time for Vista as those Drivers on the RTM shouldn’t load and this is a current Top of the Range M’Board biased on an Intel 955 Chip Set.

          Col

        • #3216357

          With 19,500 drivers on the DVD it self Plus at this time

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to I noticed this yesterday with an A Bit M’Board

          11,700 on the update site which means ,more than likely it is there, oh by the way XP only had 10,000 drivers on install. Hal-who says that only the (say) Realtech has to certify drivers. Intel can certify the drivers for that particular chipset, by the way they do.
          Certified drivers are only needed for the X64 version of Vista.
          Mike

          PS The sound for my current motherboard is Realtech and it works great with X64 Ultimate RTM.

        • #3288590

          all in one motherboards are a real bugger to work with

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to With 19,500 drivers on the DVD it self Plus at this time

          Driver support & different bioses are a real
          problem.Getting the drivers & installing them is another matter as some motherboards
          do not work well with sata drives & we know that vista doesn’t recognize some drives still.Whil’st vista has come along some distance people are still not convinced
          that it will be as good replacement to
          xp just yet.
          ta mick

        • #3288532

          What people are not convinced-heck it’s not even on store shelves

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to all in one motherboards are a real bugger to work with

          I know that Vista is good replacement for XP. As soon as I can I WILL be buying Vista for my 2 other pc’s. I already have RTM on this pc.
          Mike

        • #3288458

          Bottom Line, It’s the bottom line…

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to all in one motherboards are a real bugger to work with

          I have two XP machines sitting in front of me, The OS (WinXP-Pro/MultiLang) cost is around 150 ? (aprox.) each. To get what I already have with XP, I (will) have to pay at least 500 ? (each). And that version is not even built yet. With that in mind, it means a – (yes a negitative) ROI of at least 350 ?. :_| and no, nada, nix, (nichts here) in the way of any gain.
          The bottom Line is Vista is OUT. (at least for the next 5-10 years.)
          It’s nice that you’re in with a RTM, (you might be the only one) but it just won’t do the job. Bottom Line.

        • #3216244
          Avatar photo

          Well as A Bit make the M’Board in question here

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to I noticed this yesterday with an A Bit M’Board

          I’m not sure that Intel has anything to do with this part of the M’Board. They certainly do not have anything to do with the LAN connection as that is another different set of drivers and an odd one so I don’t expect drivers for that.

          However Realtech are a different story with just about everyone using this sound setup as the On Board Sound. This is the point I was trying to get across and you’re correct [b]At the Moment[/b] it doesn’t matter but it’s not going to stay that way according to M$ themselves. They in an attempt to make the Kernel More Secure are going to prevent unsigned Hardware from being installed at the first Major Update approx 2 years after the launch and on the next release in about 4 years after the initial release of Vista they are talking about doing the same for software which is not Digitally Signed with M$.

          M$ way around Legal issues is to claim that they re preventing breaches in the Security of the Basic Kernel of Vista though I’m not sure that it will be all that legal but just like Netscape by the time that everything is done and dusted in the courts the damage will already have been done and we will have lost all the competition to M$. Have you as yet downloaded the Accounting Package for Office 2007?

          I can understand M$ wanting to be everything to everyone but they simply can not provide the necessary software design that is available to all the third party software houses without becoming even bigger and less flexible that they already are. M$ is currently in the same position that IBM was in the late 80’s and I have no doubt will go the same way.

          Col

        • #3288586

          you are spot on the money

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well as A Bit make the M’Board in question here

          ms in their attempt to control everything & everyone has tried to make the vista kernel more secure by ousting software vendors such as symantec etc only serves to show that they want a slice of the market for themselves.In that pursuit for dominance & control they will stand to lose as the kernel is not as secure as they thought
          as it can be hacked into by malware & such.
          So instead of moving ahead they will find that it’s a repeat retrograde.
          ta mick

        • #3288529

          Symantic and McAfee are the only ones

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to you are spot on the money

          That are saying that they are being blocked. Those are also the only ones that want to modify the kernal. Those also are the 2 I do not want anywhere near any of my computers. I have had to correct too many pc’s that these have messed up.
          Mike

        • #3288470

          not so fast on that..

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to you are spot on the money

          to say there are only two firms with a problem is a mis-statement at best. Maybe in your area, it might look like that, but world wide, the rumble is much bigger, and since M$ either, won’t, or can’t deal with it, it seems to be snow-balling.

        • #3288593

          well i’m really confused

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I noticed this yesterday with an A Bit M’Board

          Certified or not most vendors are really peeved that they have to be dictated by ms.
          I wonder if you can insert uncertified drivers & will they work.I have found that you can fool the system to accept them.
          I have found that crashes happen even with certified drivers.
          ta
          mick

        • #3288563
          Avatar photo

          The point is that it’s Illegal!

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to well i’m really confused

          No matter how M$ tries to dress it up it’s just Illegal even under the US Law that they can change at will or at least they would like to believe that they can by buying off enough Politicians.

          Europe is going to be the problem area for M$ along with a lot of the Asian Countries who are developing their own version of Linux as a viable alternative OS to M$ offering that is crippling them. The hardware makers are going to have to provide drivers for the biggest market and right now M$ Market Share doesn’t look that healthy.

          Europe is working with several different Linux’s and Asia is working on Turbo Linux exclusively so a very large chunk of the M$ Market is rapidly disappearing, no matter what lies Steve comes out with about M$ tie up with Novel and SUSE Linux being the only truly M$ Legal Linux, in many countries M$ just will be wasting money with little to no chance of winning any IP Suits.

          Col

        • #3288505

          Can You

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to The point is that it’s Illegal!

          State the specific law that makes this illegal?

        • #3288472

          A Recent Article – Try Again

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to The point is that it’s Illegal!

          “In a periodic joint status report, required as a part of Microsoft’s 2002 antitrust settlement with the U.S. Department of Justice and state plaintiffs, the government attorneys said a technical committee charged with overseeing the software giant’s compliance had found no outstanding issues after “extensive testing” of Vista and Internet Explorer 7.”

        • #3288468

          Not even sure that they’ll get it court…

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to The point is that it’s Illegal!

          In Europe, They still haven’t met the goals for WinXP, with that said, there is a possiblity that Vista is DOA. They are trying, but now even that looks shadier that a used car salesman out side of a junk yard.

        • #3290345
          Avatar photo

          Rick I take it that you where asking a recursive question above right?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to The point is that it’s Illegal!

          OH BTW are you aware that Office 2007 has an accounting package available for it so I’m guessing that M$ will be pushing the same idea that they did to their resellers when IE came out install Office Accounting and don’t have for sale any other Accounting product.

          But since you already know how M$ has been caught with it’s pants down in the US and that they had to buy themselves a new Federal Government to stop being broken up into several smaller companies I’m supposing it that you consider the previous Administration a Socialist Administration running a Land of The Free country and destroying free enterprise at every opportunity right?

          If that’s the case look at what Free Enterprise has being doing since this administration came to power they have been stealing from the small people hand over fist and then when the money has disappeared they shut up shop and disappear themselves.

          The only thing that I can remember about the previous administration is that your President had an interesting way of keeping his cigars moist. but besides being impeached for quibbling over what comprise [b]Sexual relations[/b] I don’t remember much else going wrong under his watch now can you say ENRON?

          Col

        • #3290268

          Hal and Enron

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to The point is that it’s Illegal!

          To somehow suggest that Enron was Bush’s fault is utterly ridiculous.

          And I would suggest that the vast majority of the events to lead to Enron’s fall actually occurred during the Clinton administration.

          Now, I’m not sugggesting it was Clinton’s fault either. I don’t blame Presidents for the illegal behavior of business people.

          However, the fail of Enron didn’t occur overnight. It was a chain of events that started many years earlier.

          Once again, anyone suggesting such is part of the problem and not part of the solution.

          Neither Democrats or Republicans, liberals or conservatives can gain an upper hand using fear or lies as their weapon of choice politically.

        • #3290235

          Presidents and Enron?

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to The point is that it’s Illegal!

          How in the world did the conversation get off onto presidents and Enron? I thought this debate was about Vista not presidents who have no control over crooked corporations.

        • #3290234

          Presidents and Enron?

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to The point is that it’s Illegal!

          How in the world did the conversation get off onto presidents and Enron? I thought this debate was about Vista not presidents who have no control over crooked corporations.

        • #3288541

          Certified drivers only for Vista X64

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well i’m really confused

          But then you knew that didn’t you-WRONG. From what you have posted.It seems you don’t really know what your talking about. I run Vista 24/7 and have yet to have it crash on me.
          Everthing I have installed works with no problems.
          Mike

    • #3139389

      After 852 posts

      by ang2006 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      all I can say is one says this, one says that, a quote here, a quote there, but there is way too much controversy over things like anti-virus and digital signatures for me to ever, any time soon, buy a Vista. Maybe later when the dust has settled and I am assured by trusted experts that any software of MY OWN CHOOSING will operate and MY CHOICE of virus protection installed will function without hinderance, then maybe I will buy a Vista. It will never happen until then.

      • #3219317

        I have to agree with you totally

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to After 852 posts

        when all is said & done we hear this or that in the final analysis people will make up their own minds.We can all discuss things & agree to disagree but no one knows for sure.I wish decisions were as clear cut
        as that & manufacturers & ms make the transisition easy for the poor old user.
        Also we need as much information as we can get.WE all hate delayed releases & are assured that vista is going to be better than before well we hope so.We won’t forget
        if we are let down.
        ta mick

        • #3288585

          So how….

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to I have to agree with you totally

          after this statement

          “are assured that vista is going to be better than before well we hope so.We won’t forget
          if we are let down”

          is Vista Crap then?

          We have not been let down yet as the OS has not been released!!!!!!

        • #3288566

          it’s a wait & see attitude

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to So how….

          I’m personally not convinced that it’s a value for money system but for the ordinary user you would need to wait for the next
          upgrade of vista to see any benefits.A lot of problems are still not resolved with vista i know it is a beta but they won’t be resolved in time for release.Previous vista release were a disaster leading to ms having to rewrite something of the order of
          50 million entries of source code.I have personally tested some of the source code only to find heaps of errors.Uncorrerected errors can lead to fatal system crashes.
          coupled with other critical problems as well as pressure to release you have a receipe for disaster.Personally i dont’t think ms should have released vista as a system but should have released it as part of an xp edition update.The next vista rlease edition will be in 2009 .
          ta mick

        • #3288559

          gaming post -vista -myths & realities heaps of problems for gamers

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to it’s a wait & see attitude

          Ant writes
          “An article at Ten Ton Hammer answers personal computer/PC gamers’ question on what’s coming their way with Microsoft’s newest operating system/OS, Windows Vista. With the PC primed to be the primary distribution platform for certain gaming categories (MMOGs in particular) for many years to come, it’s important to know exactly what we’re getting into when Vista rolls out worldwide on January 30, 2007. Jeff ‘Ethec’ Woleslagle offers a quick, non-technical rebuttal to several of the more ambitious PC gaming rumors cropping up around the internet.”
          From the article:
          “Games which seek to take advantage of DirectX 10 high-end features like Shader Model 4.0 (which the graphically revamped version of EVE Online will aspire to use) will require a computer fully compatible with DirectX 10. This in turn requires a GPU fully optimized to work with DX 10 (such as the first-to-market NVidia 8800). The Microsoft requirements for a DX10 ‘optimized’ GNU and system are fairly strict, so jaded gamers take note: this phrase is more than a marketing maneuver. For those among you that can’t afford a major hardware upgrade anytime soon, don’t fret (yet). Microsoft’s XNA framework enables developers to easily develop parallel versions of a game for DX 9 and DX 10. Here’s hoping that developers and publishers will be equally accommodating in releasing XP / Vista compatible games in the same box.”
          ta mick

        • #3288551

          to upgrade or not to upgrade

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to it’s a wait & see attitude

          Scott Spanbauer from pc world reportson vista upgrades: Many of the upgrades went fine. But when they went bad, they went really bad. The final version of Vista will likely provide a smoother transition, but I’d still recommend waiting a few weeks after Vista’s announced January 30th general release before you make the move. Check user forums to see what problems other people have faced, give your device manufacturers time to release new drivers, and generally allow things to settle down a bit.
          ta mick

        • #3288517

          You know that Vista is RTM-don’t you

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to it’s a wait & see attitude

          In other words it’s out of beta. If they had to re wirte 50 million lines of code-you know that it would have taken a minimum of a year to find 99% of the bugs-right. Oh that’s right, they did that already-beta was started in July of last year. ButI don’t think they re wrote 50 million lines.
          Mike

        • #3290365
          Avatar photo

          Michael I’ll say it again

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to You know that Vista is RTM-don’t you

          At the M$ Partners Meeting before last the M$ people claimed that Vista represents in May 1,000,000 Man Hours of Work and that they where still finding 5,000 errors per day.

          Somehow I find it impossible to believe that in the 6 months since that statement was made that M$ has been able to cure all the problems that they where finding back then.

          Col

        • #3290240

          Hal I never said that Vista is perfect

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Michael I’ll say it again

          In fact since software is designed and built by us poor humans, there is no software that is with out bugs.
          What I am saying is that I run VIsta X64 Ultimate RTM-24/7 with no problems that I can find. All the 32 bit programs I’ve installed work as intended. Are there bugs-of course-will they all be found-most will eventually as with any software. But if any designer waited till software was perfect-we might get it in a 100 years.
          Is it stable-h**l yes-will you be buying-h**l yes my other pc needs it.
          Mike

        • #3288513

          Incorrect

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to it’s a wait & see attitude

          NO…it is not a wait and see attutude you have!

          It is a statement “vists is crap” pure and simple. Why do you now try to turn around your own argument towards – wait and see from such a daming statement shows how little you actually know. I think you are worried it will not be as crap as you state.

          Que the well Vista is X,Y,Z,Z1,Z2 and the stupid ta mick line.

          2009 – thanks for telling me what MS shows on it’s product roadmaps.

          You really know your ‘Ctrl’ ‘C’ / ‘V’ don’t you.

          ta tech

        • #3289389

          you don’t seem to know that vista can’t be taken up properly

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Incorrect

          untill drivers become more widesspread.Then my attitude is that until there is some tangible need to switch to vista then it is just crap.It is crap in that there are problems with vista still.I call vista crap but at the same time say the ms still needs to deliver on performance.They hope that we get a fully functional op system by 2009.
          I beleive that ther might be some glimmer of hope otherwise people will go off the windows platform all together.
          I won’t be using windows vista in my organisation for a long time.As my testing has revealed that we don’t need to upgrade to vista.
          ta mick

        • #3289387

          you know you speak crap when you say i’m not sure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Incorrect

          I have done my homework & i consider vista crap because there are toomany shortfalls.
          Yo make smart arese comments what testing have you done & you probably think vista is the best thing.
          ta mick

        • #3289366

          gsaravin why don’t you grow up

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to you know you speak crap when you say i’m not sure

          When somebody disagrees with you. You repeat the same old argument that Vista is crap. When we ask for proof of who you are and proof of your knowledge-you don’t answer-if you say here is proof(that Vista is crap)-then you don’t give the url-a couple times you did and I showed that you take things out of context or that the person wrote this was writting about a beta that was serval times earlier the one available now and not even what was happening in the current beta.
          I have seen some of your arguments and they show that you don’t know what your talking about. From some of your posts it looks like your a kid who likes to think he knows more than he really does.
          Mike

        • #2486959

          you ready to accept the bullshit that michael pedals

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Incorrect

          well techmail test results prove vista is totally crap.Everyone criticising me has been blown clear off the water!
          Ta mick
          I’m right & the whole lot of you are wrong!!!

        • #2486873

          What tech mail results-where is it -as usual you say some thing

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to you ready to accept the bullshit that michael pedals

          then no url with your proof.
          Mike

        • #2486870

          what is the name of the benchmark program

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to you ready to accept the bullshit that michael pedals

          I would like to try it myself.
          Mike

        • #3288384

          still is

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to it’s a wait & see attitude

          why not release a system thats really ready.

        • #3288371

          Dell pays refund for unwanted Windows XP

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to still is

          By Iain Thomson

          Linux enthusiast gets a cheque to cover the costs of not using Windows.

          A Linux user has managed to persuade Dell to refund the cost of Windows XP after buying a laptop from the vendor.

          Dave Mitchell, a freelance programmer from Yorkshire, bought a Dell laptop in October but did not want the bundled copy of Windows XP Home.

          The Linux enthusiast went through the registration procedure for the operating system, but then declined to activate the product and took screenshots of every step.

          “I had a clear record of what the licence did or did not say,” he told the BBC. “I fully intended to take it as far as the small claims court just to be bloody-minded.”

          Mitchell sent a letter to Dell’s UK headquarters explaining his position and received a cheque for ?55.23 within days. Dell did not ask him for the Windows XP installation discs that came with the laptop.

          “Dell does not have an official programme that accommodates the return of the operating system,” said a spokeswoman from Dell.

          “In general a customer would return the system if unhappy with any pre-installed software end-user licence agreement, including the operating system.

          “Customers should consult the applicable terms and conditions of sale for more information on Dell’s return policy.”

          Dell has offered alternative operating systems to Windows on its desktop range for some time now but laptops only come with Windows.
          ta mick

        • #3288555
          Avatar photo

          Vista doesn’t need to be released to be a problem

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to So how….

          Currently M$ is pushing the idea of the OEM System Builders selling Vista Ready Computers Now and when they release Vista & Office 2007 for a small Postage & Handling charge you can have the upgrades posted out to you direct from M$. This is [b]Available NOW![/b]

          So effectively M$ is selling Vista & Office now without the ability for the buyers to actually see what they are buying. Incidentally the EULA comes into effect when you receive the DVD/CD and you are supposed to install Vista & Office as soon as they arrive and you are not allowed to go back to the previous XP system if you want to as that would be Pirating the M$ Product under the terms of their EULA that you have agreed to before you even get to read it let alone before you can even consider installing it.

          Col

        • #3288548

          it’s a huge mess

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Vista doesn’t need to be released to be a problem

          defintely shambles & a legal minefield.The bottom line is people aren’t getting much of a choice.Not being able to go back to the previous is a big problem.Also i have noticed people are having trouble with parallel installations.
          ta mick

        • #3288545

          An article from techtree .com re vista upgrades a waste of

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to it’s a huge mess

          money & time:
          Vista? Not necessary
          Punit Lodaya Email Print
          Nov 22, 2006

          “Vista? Not necessary.” These were the words that came out of a network administrator’s mouth, while having a conversation with some Microsoft representative, who was persuading him to upgrade to Microsoft Vista. All this time, I was going gaga over Microsoft Vista on how cool it looks; how easy it is to install; and boasting about all its upcoming features. But, after hearing those words, I really gave it a practical thought; how will Microsoft Vista be more useful than Microsoft Windows XP????

          Let’s get back in the time wheel, shall we? Every newer version of Windows boasts enough features, in a way, compelling any Windows user to upgrade to the latest one. Windows became popular with the introduction of Windows 95. Soon, Windows 98 replaced it with enough features to boast about, and then came the dreaded Windows ME, which Microsoft itself never took very seriously. It was just to bridge the gap between the release of Windows 98 and the upcoming NT-based OS for the desktop.

          Come October 2001, Windows XP became finally available to everyone; some of them even managed to get hold of it even a month earlier than that. And for once, it was the biggest upgrade anyone could ever imagine. The instability issues with Windows 9X range were almost eliminated; the computer didn’t crash for every single reason and I got rid of the cumbersome process of installing Windows 98 every 3-4 days. For the first time, my OS could run at a stretch for 6 months non-stop working 24*7 without any signs of slowing down. Obviously, Windows XP did cost me a bit as I had to upgrade from 128 MB to 256 MB, but it was worth it. Initially, Windows XP had lots of security problems, but then it was at least more secure than Windows 9X series. With the release of service packs and now, the monthly release of critical patches, Windows XP is close to being a perfect OS, at least for me.

          Microsoft Vista is here finally (at least, the RTM version), but we have just realized that right now; except for a gamer, there’s no need for anyone else to upgrade. There have been minor updates, but not worth the price one has to pay for the new OS and of-course, the hardware cost. It boasts about cool and sleek looks, but frankly speaking, does a corporate need the cool looks? It boasts of high security. Well, update your Windows XP with the latest patch and have the security centre running in background, and you will be the proud owner of one of the most secure PCs around. It boasts of new applications with newer features. Internet Explorer 7.0, Windows Media Player 11, Windows Defender, Windows Desktop Search, etc, have all been released for Windows XP as well. It boasts of widgets. We have Yahoo! Widgets which even betters the competitor. The interface might have turned easier, but over the period of five years, people have learnt using Windows XP so well that using Vista will be like spoon-feeding them.

          The biggest competitor to Windows Vista is not Mac OS X or Ubuntu Linux. It is Windows XP itself. If DirectX 10 had not been mandatory for Windows Vista, even gamers wouldn’t have upgraded to Windows Vista. Windows Vista will eventually replace Windows XP, as newer machines will come bundled with it, but the current breed of Windows XP-based machines certainly has no reason to pay and upgrade it.

          ta mick

        • #3288501

          Ok Then

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to An article from techtree .com re vista upgrades a waste of

          If none of the new features are worth it, why don’t Linux users just continue to use their .1 versions, Firefox .1, OpenOffice .1, etc?

          C’mon, every other posts is about how some Vista feature was stolen or copied from Linux or Mac’s and they’ve all updated yet the Windows user is supposed to not upgrade.

          Give me a break.

          Vista is a huge improvement over XP. But the whole argument is worthless. These types of debates have been happening ever since Windows 3.1 and upgrading to Windows 95.

          The change will happen and the open source community is just trying their best to muck up the waters. It ain’t going work.

        • #3290373

          The article

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to An article from techtree .com re vista upgrades a waste of

          is extremely well said. Fancy screens and such are of no importance if the OS does not work as needed. Even if it works well, I have serious doubts it can do any better than my XP and that includes a whole host of games including online shooter games like Joint Ops—at least for the foreseeable future there is no need for Vista. Like a cadillac dealer wanting me to upgrade to the newest model car when the old runs just fine. I do not need the prestige–just the darn thing to work right. 2 or 3 years out and we can talk about it but not until then.

        • #3290284

          Parallel installations…

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to it’s a huge mess

          No problem at all unless the machine can’t run Vista in the first place (tech specs). I have done many in Beta Testing.

          You don’t get all your perfs to work either because they are not designed to work with anything above XP or the vendor has not yet released a driver.

          Time to Rave…

          Ta Tech

        • #3289308

          what a mess Michael

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to it’s a huge mess

          Extolling Vista’s parental controls and Address Space Layout Randomisation feature — a new defense against buffer overrun exploits — Allchin said he’s so confident in the operating system’s security measures that he believes there’s no need for Vista users to run any third-party antivirus software. “My son, seven years old, runs Windows Vista, and, honestly, he doesn’t have an antivirus system on his machine,” said Allchin. “His machine is locked down with parental controls, he can’t download things unless it’s to the places that I’ve said that he could do, and I’m feeling totally confident about that. … That is quite a statement. I couldn’t say that in Windows XP SP2.” No, you couldn’t. But as I noted above, you sort of did anyway, didn’t you ,Jim?
          To be fair, Allchin didn’t go so far as to say Vista will be immune to security problems. The OS will have its fair share, just far fewer than its predecessors. “Windows Vista is something that will have issues in security, because the bar is being raised over time,” he continued. “But in my opinion, it is the most secure system that’s available, and it’s certainly the most secure system that we’ve shipped. So I feel very confident that customers are far better off by using Windows Vista than they are with anything that we’ve released before.”
          ta mick

        • #3289224

          could care less about vista

          by arizmendi ·

          In reply to what a mess Michael

          I can’t come up with a good reason for spending 2 or 3 hundred bucks to change from XP to Vista, so I won’t in the forseeable future. I have overwritten my Vista hard drive with Unix Ubuntu and have experimented with it for fun. Vista is a more viable system than Ubuntu since things like a number of hardware support pkgs can’t be installed even though the hardware works (except no Canon 8400F scanner driver yet). I can see that Ubuntu (being free) is a perfectly viable system for many people – especially those with limited funds.

        • #3288512

          Thought…

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Vista doesn’t need to be released to be a problem

          it was a voucher you could choose to redeem?

        • #3288454

          True, but…

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to Thought…

          see below (please)

        • #3288504

          Pure FUD

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Vista doesn’t need to be released to be a problem

          The standard EULA goes into effect when you open the product…in this case, the DVD.

          If I never open the the DVD, I am not agreeing to the EULA and therefore I don’t have to install Vista.

          If I don’t install Vista, I’m not pirating XP. It came with the system.

          Until you offer proof to the contrary, I believe you are merely spreading fear.

          Give me proof that if I buy a PC with XP today and get Vista in the mail, that I have to install it.

          I’m not interested in your opinion, I want proof. You are merely spreading accusations at this point.

        • #3288447

          Let me try to explain..

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to Pure FUD

          (if that’s possible)
          You buy a PC that is supposed to come with Vista, but since it isn’t available here yet, (may never be, but wait, this gets better) It is given to you with XP, which you, of course PAY for. It will also come with a voucher for a ‘FREE’ ‘UPgrade’ to Vista. Sounds good right? Not quite so simple.
          1) The PC you buy now will not (and could not) have been tested throughly with the OS that was not available at time it was sold to you. Putting the Manufacturer at a liability.
          2) The Voucher, when sent to M$, after Your version of Vista is available, will indeed have a DVD with your Vista delivered to you. But, problem #3
          3) When delivered you will be given 60-90 days to ‘Activate’ your Vista. (the exact time will depend on your location, usually 90 days) in that time your XP is toast if Vista is installed. If you do not install your Vista in that time, The offer is voided. You must then Purchase Vista Retail. (But remember, you were promised a free-be, and probably paid a primeium price too)
          4) The OEM of the computer you just bought just lost a sale of the Vista OS Computer, next year. He was under cut by M$ on that. Nope, Nobody wins.

          edited to add:
          I almost forgot the real hammer:
          There is no guarantee that Vista will be available to you at all (depending on where you are) soooooo….
          What the Boys at M$ are trying to do here, is leverage the regulatory agencies by creating a demand, by establishing an OS (by vouchers) in an area, there-by bi-passing any pliminary requirements before sales are actually started. (“We have to have access to the market, because we are already in the market”)
          It’s how the game is played.

        • #3290369

          Your quote….

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to Let me try to explain..

          ….your XP is toast if Vista is installed. See this is where the problem comes in for me as it is not so simple as doing a restore to get back an older program which works better than a new—-or a simple uninstall and reinstall of a program—this is the entire OS we are talking about…lots of danger involved with too little benefits for me. While I certainly hope they get everything working like they want it and so forth—I just have to wait and see.

        • #3290366

          Wow

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Let me try to explain..

          You’re taking alot of creative license on this one.

          1) Why do you say it may never be available where you live? Honestly, do you really think that? Give me a break. The best our European “allies” will do is sue Microsoft more and extract more money out of them because of the European leanings towards socialism and not capitalism.

          2) Most IT pros build their own PC’s. In that scenario, no OS is “tested throroghly” against the various combinations of hardware in advance yet we do it all the time and these PC’s are typically still better than the mass produced ones.

          3) Do you have proof of this 60-90 day validation period? That’s the first I’ve heard of it. Please post proof if you have it. Otherwise, stop spreading FUD.

          4) OEM’s would much rather have a sale today than next year…time value of money. Besides, you can’t have it both ways. The Windows haters complain that Vista isn’t ready on time for X-Mas yet when Microsoft does the best they can, vouchers, now you claim OEM’s are hurt by it. You’d have an excuse anyway it works out.

          5) Related to #4, the Windows haters claim there is little demand for upgrading to Vista so why if that is true would Microsoft fight regulators by trying to create a demand that your types claim doesn’t even exist to begin with.

        • #3290357

          Rick, offering opinion while requesting nothing but fact?

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Let me try to explain..

          Quote1 was replied with your opinion; and a very single minded and uninformed one at that. Yes, Europe is more socialist based than America, but capitalismn has just as many flaws towards the general public when looked at objectively. It’s merely your opinion, not fact, as you so demand.

          And whilst you doubt those who actually do know better than most here, you really need to learn about your audience.

          Both posters you are questioning are actually two of the most informed people, on this subject, that grace our forums.

          You won’t hear qualified opinion, without casting your own doubts based solely on what you see as fair business practice; remember, you support your capitalist government and don’t see MS as one of the worst run and corrupt corporations in human history. Why would anyone offer realistic and considerate replies?

          You also assume that Colin was referring to Europe, for some bizarre reason.

          Assumption, opinion, unqualified comments and yet you insist others prove things to you?

          Get over yourself, that doesn’t fly on TR. I’m surprised they have had so much patience with you so far, it won’t last long.

          You are entitled to challenge an opinion here anytime, but don’t expect fact if all you offer is mere speculation and opinion. The opinions you are challenging are a couple of the more qualified opinions on TR though, especially on a MS front.

          If you insist on doubting people’s comments, perhaps do a little research yourself and stop expecting everyone to prove you wrong before you can educate yourself.

          “Guilty until proven innocent”, nice approach, you ARE an American aren’t you?!

        • #3290350

          Oz_Media

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to Let me try to explain..

          “You also assume that Colin was referring to Europe, for some bizarre reason”

          Well, yes, I was assuming he was talking about where he lived and that is in his profile. Germany..yes, I can read.

          If it wasn’t Germany, perhaps he should have named the location.

          But since we are on the subject of opinions, you seem to have your fair share too.

          Thanks for the insult or at least the insinuated insult about being an American. It’s to be expected.

        • #3290228

          ???

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Vista doesn’t need to be released to be a problem

          You were replying to HAL9000, right? That’s who you posted beneath.

          Where do you get Germany fom the profile?
          “HAL 9000 (488)
          Job Role: IT Consultant
          Location: Constantly Confused Mere Male, QL
          Member since: 11/19/2002”

          QL would be Queensland, Australia.

          Now you say I assume that YOU were American?
          Based on your profile, and that you pointed out that is the correct place to get such information.

          rickk@… (17)
          Job Role: Networking / LAN Administration
          Location: Indianapolis, IN
          Member since: 11/08/2001

          Indianapolis, Indiana ?….Isn’t that in America? So are you actually trying to look clever with your retort, because you are not actually an American citizen? If you are not American and have just sought home there, all the power to you. But you will know first hand that, unlike in a “multiciultural” country, immigrants to America are expected you live and act as Americans. They are encouraged to take on US culture and leave theirs behind, this is why America is a “melting pot” and not actually “multicultural”. You sure as hell sound like one. Half the information and twice the opinion.

          If you live there, you are American. If you are not and feel your culture is respected and welcomed, keep it quiet, they’ll get rid of you pretty quick for not ‘Americanizing’ yourself.

          If that’s NOT what you meant, this isn’t a place for cryptic identification, speak up or shut up.

        • #3290541

          If you live there, you are American

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to ???

          If I moved to America I would not become American. I would retain my normal nationality no matter what.

        • #3225022

          merry xmas

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to If you live there, you are American

          present is with santa.
          ta mick

        • #3290521

          No, nt

          by rkuhn040172 ·

          In reply to ???

          I was responding to Dawgit who his profile says he’s from Germany.

          This thread has gotten so big that it isn’t always possible to post directly under the correct person. You should of noticed that by reading my posting.

          I do know how to read and do know where people are from when they post it in their profile. Nice try.

          And yes, I’d rather live in a melting pot than a “multicutural” society like you speak of.

          But I expect as much from you. Trash Microsoft, trash America. There’s a pattern here. Americans are used to it.

          But your elitist attitude won’t get you anywhere.

        • #3289391

          they reckon hat ms is as american as mums

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to No, nt

          humble pie.
          Better still they reckon that the next operating system will come from india.
          Were allpart of the global network.
          ta mick

        • #3289390

          they reckon that ms is as american as mums

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to No, nt

          humble pie.
          Better still they reckon that the next operating system will come from india.
          Were all part of the global network.
          ta mick

      • #2491167

        after 1456 posts is this thread worth reading at all?

        by lasersteel ·

        In reply to After 852 posts

        apart from the fact that it shows some slanging matches between several players, there really isn’t a lot of substance in the topic other than personal rants.

        Maybe the moderators could cull out the FUD and leave us with some facts so its worthwhile reading or just kill off the thread altogether…….

        • #2491127

          Amen Brother

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to after 1456 posts is this thread worth reading at all?

          Just going around in circles with the same arguments………I still think the jury will be out until Vista is out a couple of years and then I may upgrade. I just see no reason to fix something on my computer which is not broken. XP is fine for me.

        • #2491031

          Can i add amen to that brothers & sisters lets

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Amen Brother

          just see how vista shapes up when it is released in a couple of days.I fully agree with your comments.
          ta mick

        • #2491126
          Avatar photo

          Well actually as Vista is released in 6 Days time

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to after 1456 posts is this thread worth reading at all?

          It will be interesting to see what happens and how Vista Related Questions start to pop up in the Q & A Forum.

          This thread may still prove useful then.

          Col

        • #2491087

          BUT only if……….

          by lasersteel ·

          In reply to Well actually as Vista is released in 6 Days time

          the trashy replies and personal attacks and chest beating stuff is discarded.

          It will probably drop the thread to a couple of hundred comments, then it might be useful!

        • #2491030

          well from what i have heard a lot of businesses are very cautious

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well actually as Vista is released in 6 Days time

          on vista.I have heard how their new pcs come with a nice sticker saying that it is vista ready when in fact it’s not.
          How many other consumers are ready to embrace vista????
          ta mick

        • #2491029

          well threads like these are for people to share their experiences

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well actually as Vista is released in 6 Days time

          this is a free forum for all to share their
          ideas & experiences.
          ta mick

        • #2491028

          this is from apc magazine australia misses out

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well threads like these are for people to share their experiences

          Australians locked out of Vista discounts
          23rd January 2007 Dan Warne The Invistagator, Vista, Windows

          Microsoft Australia has confirmed that Australians will not be allowed to download Vista through the Windows Marketplace, take advantage of the “Anytime Upgrade”, or buy with family discount.

          A spokesperson said the family pack discount, which allowed purchasers of Vista Ultimate to buy two additional licences to Vista Home Premium for only $US49 each, was not available in Australia because “as many Australian software promotions only run in Australia – this is one that only runs in the US.”

          In relation to the Anytime Upgrade scheme, where a user of Home Basic, for example, could pay a one-off fee to transform their Vista installation into Home Premium on the spot, the spokesperson said, “Microsoft Australia is currently evaluating the suitability of deploying Microsoft Windows Anytime Upgrade in Australia, but we have no announcements to make at this stage.”

          And what about the ability to get instant gratification by downloading the Vista DVD?

          “Windows Marketplace exists in various geographies around the world,” the spokesperson said. “Those geographies that already have Windows Marketplace will have the download ability. Australia has not had Windows Marketplace to date and as a geography without Windows Marketplace it would be hard to offer a download via Windows Marketplace.”

          Microsoft Australia would not give any reason why the family pack discount, Anytime Upgrade or Vista downloads were blocked to Australians.

          ta mick

        • #2491027

          well another article discusses that we don’t really need vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to this is from apc magazine australia misses out

          echoes my sentiments exactly.from apc magazine

          We don’t need Vista after all?
          29th December 2006 Dan Warne The Invistagator, Vista, Windows
          Now that we’re close to the public launch of Vista, a weird thing is happening in the blogosphere: people are starting to say that we don’t really need it after all.

          For so many years, XP was the exploit-riddled OS lacking in basic security measures and forcing 95% of computer users to fit in with a five-year-old user interface that desperately needed to be updated to stay competitive with the digital era.

          Now that Microsoft has finally done it, it’s “yawn, we don’t really need that… why fix what ain’t broke.”

          Here’s a high-profile example: Microsoft blogger Paul Thurrott says in his review of Vista: “The problem isn’t even that Microsoft promised us the world and then failed to deliver. No, the problem is that there’s another OS out there that runs just fine on over 400 million computers around the world. That system is stable, secure, and gets the job done. It’s Windows Vista’s biggest competitor. To be fair, it’s Windows Vista’s only competitor. Maybe you’ve heard of it: It’s called Windows XP.”

          Ballmer and Gates must be kicking themselves for releasing such a substantial update with XP SP 2.

          To an extent I have to agree with Thurrott. I’ve run Vista on my work PC for months and have actually gone back to XP for the time being (I’m still running a Vista box for testing and experimentation; just not working on it full time).

          It’s not that Vista isn’t better than XP — it is, in many ways — it’s that certain apps that I rely on don’t work properly in it yet (Citrix GoToMyPC is one prime example — I’ll be buggered if I’m going to keep paying the monthly fee for a service that doesn’t work in Vista, and Blackberry Desktop Manager doesn’t seem to work properly with Office 2007.)

          The benefits of Vista just aren’t that enormous over XP, which, as it is at the end of its life cycle, works with everything.

          In an upcoming edition of APC I’ve written about the top 10 reasons you should care about Vista. For me, many of the most important aspects of Vista come down to shell user-interface refinement: the ability to browse through a folder of photos in a method similar to Apple iPhoto, or a folder of music using ID3 tags rather than filenames.

          Frankly, though, these improvements didn’t need six years of kernel rewriting — they could have been implemented by reworking the XP desktop.

          It is certainly nice to have the option of a more modern operating system than XP. But upgrading to Vista on an existing PC may be a waste of money if you don’t find XP irritating to use at the moment. Given Microsoft Australia has hiked up the local pricing so much compared to what Vista sells for in the US, the cost of the Vista upgrade is non-trivial. Probably the only way to buy Vista at a fair price is to get it with a new PC, where you’ll probably only be paying $100 – $150 for the full OEM licence.
          my sentiments exactly

          ta mick

        • #2491051

          Nope :|

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to after 1456 posts is this thread worth reading at all?

          You’re quite right in your opservation. It has been a slug fest between a few here. Very enteraining though. Actually, there is some (very little) good points to ponder. As for killing the thread, why bother, it will die a natural death, sooner or later, and it’s better that these few keep it here than to start it all over again in another thread. -d

        • #2491024

          why kill a thread that’s approaching nearly 1500

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Nope :|

          responses.Why have the slanging of just two people ,wait until vista is released to the public & we’ll have 5000 responses.all i’m saying we need more people to respond.The more the merrier.
          ta mick

        • #2490969

          oh, boi, oh boi

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to why kill a thread that’s approaching nearly 1500

          Yup, yup, I just can’t wait, nope. ‘gona be moe fun dan ride’n a scoot’r in ina blizzard, it is. yup, yup.
          (sorry too long on a M$ site today 🙁 )-d

        • #2507026

          if we took out your 650 posts……………

          by lasersteel ·

          In reply to why kill a thread that’s approaching nearly 1500

          between your ~ 640 posts (yes I counted them) and the constant corrections, challenges and rebuttals made by others who also have valuable hands-on and technical experience, this distills the “valuable” contributions worthy of reading to a couple of hundred, if that, at best.

          We had the same rants and raves with XP is crap, Windows 98 is crap, Windows NT is crap, Windows 2000 is crap etc . Nothing is new here.

          Having the general public rant and rave over wild claims such as this won’t add any value at all.

        • #2506895

          well michael must accept some of the blame you can’t

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to if we took out your 650 posts……………

          keep a good beta tester down.He certainly doesn’t muck around.He has been helping to the contribution of this thread.I would hazzard to say correct me if i’m wrong as one of the biggest at tech republic.Perhaps we should set a guineas book of records!
          ta mick

        • #2491033

          actually you’ll have to agree it’s good entertainment value

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to after 1456 posts is this thread worth reading at all?

          & rather cryptic sounding as ms muscles in on the market & you have some diehard beta testers out there who just love whatever ms
          dishes out to them.
          Yes vista is crap but who cares,does anyone??
          unless we have some healthy competition from
          other op system manufacturers we will cop the same crap all over again.And is’nt it funny
          we have to agree to disagree with some diehards who will allways accept the shit that’s presented to us by ms.
          Anyway god bless!

          ta mick

        • #2507032

          its really a waste of valuable resource $

          by lasersteel ·

          In reply to actually you’ll have to agree it’s good entertainment value

          ………if you are employed by an organization to make these comments then they aren’t getting their value for money either!

          Technology professionals can seek out better forums for entertainment than the “let’s beat up Microsoft banter” going on here.

        • #2507023

          if you were working at our IT department you’d be fired

          by lasersteel ·

          In reply to its really a waste of valuable resource $

          …….based on the number of posts made and we found out you were using our systems during working hours wasting our resources.

          Sort descending order
          Count posts total sgaravin this thread = 634
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        • #2506917

          ?:| You do know….

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to if you were working at our IT department you’d be fired

          That all of us do not all live in the same time zone. He is not in your time zone. And he just might be one of those who does the hireing and fireing. (or like me, just don’t really give a hoot about petty office politics.)-d

        • #2506894

          these forums are not a waste of time provided more

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to its really a waste of valuable resource $

          people interact.what’s the point when you have a couple of people duelling it or arguing & the rest are sitting on the fence.
          By making a contribution such as giving your opinion that’s good for the forum ie by participation.On the question of ms bashing that’s totally wrong .I’m not anti ms as a matter of fact i’m advocating to people to keep their ms product like xp until such time as ms corrects it’s vista problems.
          Far from it some of my best friends are from ms.I would’nt like to be enemies with ms.
          So all in all i’m pretty fair.i’m simply saying if vista is brought upto scratch i would be the first to uphold it.I’m not definitely anti this or that.
          All i want is people to put forward their experiences & comments no one least of all myself will jump at you & say your wrong!
          Michael will but i won’t!
          thank you all
          mick

    • #3224509

      TO MICK = MORON VOL 2 OR IS IT MIKE AND YOU FORGOT HOW TO SPELL YOUR NAME

      by wdupcf ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      HAD TO REPLY TO THIS MOUTH MORON..BEEN RUNNING RC2 SINCE IT CAME OUT AND ON A MACHINE A QUARTER HALF OF WHICH YOU YAP ABOUT MICKY MIKE, NOT ONE ISSUE, RUNS GREAT. THEN AGAIN I’M NOT A 8 YR OLD PS2 KID WANNA BE EITHER, LIKE YOUR ACTING LIKE MICK MIKE OR IS IT MICKY MOUSE, MIKE, WHO KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT COMPUTERS OR HARDWARE, LET ALONE THE OS AND HOW THEY WORK AND I’M 99.999% SURE ABOUT THAT, NOT 11/16..LOL, THERE ALL BETA’S YOU MORON TILL SIGNED OUT..AND BETA’S MEANS REALLY BROKEN, OR NOT JUST RIGHT, STILL NEEDS LOTS OF WORK AND EVEN THEN NOTHING IN THIS WORLD 100% YOU ALREADY PROVE THAT ONE MICKY MIKE..MS SHOULD CHECK YOU OUT TOO MICK AND SEE IF YOU PERFECT,THEY TOO WILL FIND YOU WILL ALWAYS BE STUCK IN BETA BRAIN MODE MICK AND DAM, YOU ALREADY BEEN RELEASED IT SEEMS ON THE PUBLIC,..LOL…PLEASE GO TO http://WWW.JUST FOR MORONS LIKE MICK MIKE.COM AND SEE IF YOU HAVE A RECALL ON YOURSELF OK SONNY LOL..OR AT A PATCH TO SHUT YOU UP. SORRY MICK ALREADY CHECK MYSELF…NO LUCK AND NONE COMING..YOU BEEN DISCONTINUED…OR NO SUPPORT LIKE THE OTHERS.

      OH YA AND WHILE THERE..TAKE OUT YOUR NOTEPAD AND WRITE THIS DOWN MICK, REPLACE THE LETTER (M) WITH (D), AND REPEAT AFTER ME >> NEVER MET A MICK WHO WASN’T A…(FILL IN THE BLANK) OR A MIKE, WHO COULDN’T EVEN SPELL HIS NAME MICK MIKE NAME RIGHT? MAC? ANOTHER ONE, LOOKS PRETTY…DOES (FILL IN THE BLANK)

      GOD..WERE DO YOU PEOPLE COME FROM? AND TALK SUCH GARBAGE AND TRASH..MUST BE REALLY SAD LIVING IN THE BACK WOODS…GET A CAN OF RAID OK AND SPRAY IT ON YOUR SELF, IT KILLS BUGS DEAD MICK…LOL 11/16, IS THAT? YOUR IQ YOUR TALKING ABOUT OR WORKING ON, PLEASE GO BACK TO YOUR PS2 OR TAKE UP KNITTING AND LEAVE THE SPACE HERE FOR OTHERS WHO KNOW A BIT ABOUT WHICH THEY SPEAK AND NOT ONES WHO THINK THEY DO AND JUST MOUTH OFF AT ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY LONELY, BORED OR THERE LIFE JUST SUCKS, OK

      BY THE WAY MICK… DO YOU KNOW THE SAME IDIOT FROM AUSSIE THAT SHOWS UP ON NFS HP 2 TOO WITH A CHEAT AND TRASH TALK THERE TOO JUST LIKE YOU. IF NOT , BOTH OF YOUS SHOULD GET TOGETHER, THIS WAY IF YOU LUCKY AND PUT BOTH YOUR BRAINS TOGETHER, YOU MIGHT STAND A CHANCE OF GETTING OUT OF THE WOODS, JUST MAKE SURE, YOU DONT END UP ON A RAILWAY TRACK IN FRONT OF A TUNNEL, STAND THERE AND SEE A LIGHT COMING AT YOU TO GET RAMED, YOU MIGHT JUST THINK IT’S THE MOON COMING AT YA AND BLAME MICROSOFT FOR THAT TOO. LOL

      • #3224470
        Avatar photo

        Really Adult this posting isn’t it?

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to TO MICK = MORON VOL 2 OR IS IT MIKE AND YOU FORGOT HOW TO SPELL YOUR NAME

        :p

      • #3224464

        alpha beta (gamma?)

        by arizmendi ·

        In reply to TO MICK = MORON VOL 2 OR IS IT MIKE AND YOU FORGOT HOW TO SPELL YOUR NAME

        Since I’m not hysterical, I’m not using all caps for my reply. First, Mr/Ms WDUPCF, a Beta release is not “really broken, etc.”. An “Alpha” release is a barely releasable system; sort of a preliminary design. A “Beta” release is software that the implementors think is ready to go, and they release it in order to get inputs from other testers. Mr/Ms WDUPCF is obviously not familiar with software releases and testing. If I was him/her, I wouldn’t advertise my deficiencies in all caps, but I would take my medication until things clear up and the rest of the (perceived) world settles down.

        • #3224440

          easy

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to alpha beta (gamma?)

          this in lower case for mick for his level.nice of you to reply back to others with your IQ mick too, enjoy your vista mick morons,when you finnaly break down and get one… at least bill got one thing right? with this one, seeing you all convert to vista, the idiots,the bitchers who later convert anyways. MS controll 90% of world market software and a 5 yr old can run it with a click of a mouse button, get it?….you will mick….then you can change your name later or email to ass hole surpreme leader and bitch about that too or say it the next best thing next to god or something else untill it craps out on you or tell someone else like there’s a mac lepord vista coming out and you know because someone told ya and dont forget? to look for updates and patches from both sides too, it’s allready starting…you know what? grow up race the race mick or shut the hell up mick with your kid like mental ramblings, MS they rule like oil or a pope. enjoy your vista mick and you will…ms can bet on it $$$$$$

        • #3224364
          Avatar photo

          I’ve had a really bad day today

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to easy

          I’ve been locked in a room with accountants with them trying the new accounting package in Office 2007.

          More that 30 minutes of that constitutes [b]Cruel & Inhumane Punishment![/b]

          You’ve got to give it to the accountants if they think that they are getting something for free they’ll grad hold of it with both hands while it drags them to the bottom of the deepest part of the ocean. No they didn’t like the accounting package in Office 2007 but unfortunately there was no water that I could push them into to prevent them annoying me about the shortcomings of the M$ offering. Apparently according to them I made the stupid thing and it should work the way that they want it to and not the way that M$ have made it.

          Col

        • #3224250

          accountant’s i hate them with a vengeance

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I’ve had a really bad day today

          Fate is so cruel to be locked in with them for 3 minutes is a cruel blow.
          ta mick

        • #3224264

          to alpha beta (gamma?) from wdupcf

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to alpha beta (gamma?)

          just a couple of things, ok? this in lower case for ya this time ok…sorry i never took typing lessons like you did and not about too either, not on my top 10 list of things that are important to me right now in my life, but thanks for pointing out my deficiencie anyways. you want to throw a rock buddy, you better be prepare to have one throwing back at ya, unless you perfect like mick is too, or maybe you can look hard and find spelling errors too, since you retired and have nothing better to do than point out peoples deficiencie, ooups..me just repeated deficiencie again, hang on me go take a pill for you ok, be right back.

          Second, you can call a beta anything you want, buttom line is, it not a finish product, any which way you look at it, want to call or test it, case in point.

          third..since your retired,you most likely take more pills than i do and maybe you should start to work on a sence of humor, since yours appears to be stuck in beta mode too and finnaly, the world i live in is fine thks, it was micks world he live i was replying too not yours ok. yes you do type better than me, whoo hoo for you. teacher.

        • #3224247

          hey man chill out!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to to alpha beta (gamma?) from wdupcf

          there is a sayin take a powder & chill out.
          We seem to be all on the same proverbial boat that’s fast sinking as we await the release of vista & MS is making the fast buck to oblivion.Vista is a total sham as MS$ is trying to save face by delaying & releasing a final product that is not complete.
          TA mick

      • #3224253

        look at the childish way you carry on :guess what

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to TO MICK = MORON VOL 2 OR IS IT MIKE AND YOU FORGOT HOW TO SPELL YOUR NAME

        surprise surprise i have been totally vindicated by ms the have said that vista is not finished & it is work in progress.The very things i have said of vista that it is crap i’m totally right>!!!
        You don’t know how to spell too.So what’s the deal here you are the MORON why because your views are baseless there are no facts.
        Just look at the latest news & you will see that people are questioning vista’s readiness & MORONS like you because you just install vista & run it give it the thumbs up & do no testing under the hood.
        You have no idea the testing software that i use,you think i just make it up YOU are THE MORON to boot!!!A first rate MORON
        ta MICK

      • #3224213

        to mick i just talk like you, that’s all…it a no brainer bud

        by wdupcf ·

        In reply to TO MICK = MORON VOL 2 OR IS IT MIKE AND YOU FORGOT HOW TO SPELL YOUR NAME

        check this link mac lovers….it from techrepublic too mick..lol you break me up. you will still get and run vista mick…just dont tell anyone ok moron. you 2 faces of eve….or in your case 2 faces of mick mike.lol…anyway take CARE all, me out of this verbal trash talk garbage dump brought to by mick..a ms basher and lover, know it all but know nothing JUST LIKE TOO talk idiot talk…get a life mick or at least a girl..friend who can put up with ya..you nothing but a trash taker disrupter….had you figure out the frist time i read you rants, there so many of yous, like a virus REALLY…to bad they can allocate space for people like you to come on waste everyones time with youR jubberish and by the way mick, like i say replace the M with d….that’s who you are and a nothing more wanna be could of been…that’S why you talk garbage talk. JUST THOUGHT I LET YA KNOW.LOL, YOU A DIME A DOZEN MICK…THAT’S A $1.20 US BY THE WAY..AND MOST LIKELY HATE THE USA TOO…LOL
        OH YA BEFORE I FORGET SINCE I CANT SPELL OR TYPE…IT SURE AS HELL GOT YOUR ATTENTION NOW DIDN’T IT…DAAAAAAAAAAAAA.LOL

        http://ct.zdnet.com/clicks?t=20537572-28611ae01977986763e841f5019c39c3-bf&s=5&fs=0

    • #3224271

      I know this is an informal message board but…

      by eddie n ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      …for the love of Steve Jobs, I hope you don’t couch your internal memos in such badly-written and badly-punctuated language. What, are you a VP for Yahoo! or something? 🙂

    • #3224259

      according to Allchin vista is supposed to be rock solid

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Allchin said the latest version was “rock solid” after the outfit began shipping it to computer programmers and manufacturers so they could tailor their gear to the system.

      Microsoft has been criticised and its stock battered like a North Sea cod for delaying the release of Vista several times to further refine the system. It has also knocked out so much of the sexy stuff that critics consider it a bit too close to Windows XP to be worth a five-year wait.
      well need i say more!
      ta mick

    • #3224258

      I rest my case according to Allchin vista is supposed to be work in

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      progress!
      Patchy outlook for Vista early adopters
      With Vista due for release concerns about its readiness arise

      Daniel Robinson and Madeline Bennett, IT Week, 27 Nov 2006
      Microsoft?s Windows Vista will be made available to volume licensees later this week, amid concerns that the software is not completely ready for deployment and that enterprise customers may wish to postpone upgrades.

      In tests on the release version of Vista, IT Week Labs found that drivers were not installed for some components such as graphics subsystems, and these issues had to be manually fixed. IT Week has also been contacted by readers with similar issues.

      Meanwhile, Microsoft has hinted that Vista is still a work in progress, even though its code was officially finalised earlier this month. Writing on the Windows Vista blog, Microsoft?s Jim Allchin said the firm will make greater use of Automatic Updates to deliver improvements to the platform.

      ?When you use Windows Vista for the first time, you will notice that the system asks if you want to check for any updates. And don?t be surprised when the system downloads some updates ? in fact you should expect it,? Allchin said. ?[Using this mechanism] Windows Vista will continuously get better and better, automatically.?

      Some UK IT managers remain unmoved by the prospect of Vista, however. Jane Kimberlin, IT director at Domino?s Pizza, said that while mobile advancements and quad-core chips offer ?very exciting? prospects, she was ?not sure how much Windows Vista will change anything for us or industry in general?.

      Gordon Frazer, Microsoft?s UK managing director, conceded that his firm needs to convey the core Vista benefits to enterprises. ?We?ve got to help companies understand what upgrading will mean for them,? he said. ?There are significant benefits around productivity, security and total cost of ownership reductions. Firms need to make a choice of whether they want those benefits now.?

      Frazer added that early-adopter customers could have ?unique? reasons for upgrading, for example using the BitLocker encryption tool to protect against data losses if laptops are stolen, and reducing the number of IT images they need to manage. He added that Microsoft has built in migration and data-transfer tools to make it easy for customers to deploy Vista.
      ta mick

      • #3224207
        Avatar photo

        OK now I’m confused

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to I rest my case according to Allchin vista is supposed to be work in

        [i] Jane Kimberlin, IT director at Domino?s Pizza, said that while mobile advancements and quad-core chips offer ?very exciting? prospects, she was ?not sure how much Windows Vista will change anything for us or industry in general?.[/i]

        Since when did Vists start to support Quad Cores? The Ultimate RC2 version that I am currently running doesn’t support a Pentium Extreme a Dual Core with HTT. It only sees 2 cores so how will a Quad Core work better under Vista?

        Col

        • #3224182

          i don’t know but it just serves to say that industry

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to OK now I’m confused

          is not ready on the take up of vista.
          ta mick

        • #3224888

          Humm?…looks like Mac is turning to crap too Mick

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to i don’t know but it just serves to say that industry

          May I suggest to all Mac Lovers, LINX there next by the way, that they run out and buy XP to practice there updating vulnerabilities flaws routine skills on, looks like they going to need it from now on too and if I may borrow a quote from rpmtl22

          In the land of warrior giants there was once lived a small creature who ran around declaring they were the strongest warrior. The fact they were never attacked proved that everyone must be convinced of their superior strength and wit. Eventually their bragging and taunting attracted the attention of one giant and the small creature got stomped on.

          Moral of the story: Don?t tempt fate (or virus writers) as this will provoke them into squishing your delusion about all OPERATING SYSTEMS.

          By the way, Welcome to Bills world Mac people, we been waitng for you, the slience now is deafening and to think I’ve been running Vista RC2 for almost 2 months and recived only a hardware update…lol.

          So let me guess?…will all Mac users dump there OS and run out get Vista for Mac if Bill makes one…go for it Bill, you have been punished enough over the years by them and bragging and desevre to cut into there so small market share too, at lease they will get better over all support and the kids will love being able to play more games and run more programs like never before.

          Long shot here, is that one of the real reasons why Steve boy, switch to a Intel CPU, just in case, see you all at the Vista lineup one way or the other.

          PS. Hope My Typing is better and meets your high standards…and the only idiot here is you Mick and was the only reason I wrote and back to you in the frist place…talk about all and at same time say nothing….Loser

        • #3224885

          WDUPCF,quoting an old English axiom

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to Humm?…looks like Mac is turning to crap too Mick

          I have followed this discussion for days and “methinks thou dost protest too much.” The whole thing is starting to sound like a personal thing with you about mick which means nothing to the rest of us here. Make your statement but please do so in a way which might actually impress us.

        • #3224872

          Here it is ang2006. The world of crap

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to WDUPCF,quoting an old English axiom

          “me thinks thou, you’s, must like the word crap, a lot in here, since it seems to come out of Micks mouth a lot too, along with his, go suck eggs , piss off and Vista is crap, still crap and more crap.

          Guess he special and it’s not a personal thing too with him or a protest ang2006, in his reply back to others in here and I have read from him with these wonderfull words of wisdom, even before I started to write back to this raving Vista bashing Moron, just likes to crap a lot I guess and everyone lines up to listen.

          I guess, He’s not protesting too as you call it ang2006, if you dont agree with him, well that’s a bunch of crap too. This is what I notice in here about him.

          Impressive isn’t it. Nope, it’s crap. lol

          I have follow this one too for a few days here, thank God I can go to my other Forums were the IQ factor is more than a bit above his grade 8 crap level talk here and not get nailed on my typing skills from some others as a result of my opinion about someone who just likes to hear himself talk and use the word crap a lot…lol

          Some tech forum eh?…me smarter than you, no you not, me smarter than you…I have degrees, so what, prove it, I have more than you, by the way? see the way he types, that’s crap too…lol

          Want a sandbox to go along with that?, Kiddies

          Maybe that’s why it means nothing to the rest of you’s like you said and pointed out to me ang2006, not suprise…theres nothing going on in here except, crap talk, finger pointing and good old thou jousting, for I want to be the Brain leader here today, you were yesterday Mick, no I wasnt..yes you were, well ok but no matter what, even if Vista is good, Mick saids it’s still crap or His name isnt Mick, with a capital, see’s all, knows all and have degrees in crap to prove it and will email them to you to show you He’s full of crap and done it all, for He is Mick and hear Him crap….lol

          So, by all means, enjoy your one on ones with Mick, I got my shot in and a update on my typing skills as a result, nice of you’s to notice and no I was not here to come in and impress you ang2006, nor have you done this with me.

          It almost like grade 8 level talk here and Mick the leader board for all of you’s to follow, so, as you know, when in Rome do as the Romans do and I did, see, easy here, no brainer.

          Thks for the intro, and now a word from your local station.

          Apple commercial
          Mac vs. PC

          PC: Got another, ha-chew, virus
          MAC: Too bad, I don’t get viruses
          PC: Really? (and pigs can fly too.)
          MAC: Yep, totally secure.
          PC: I guess you just haven’t been around enough people to catch one
          MAC: I am around plenty of people, I’m just not popular enough for people to get to know me
          PC: Well, when you become more popular you might catch something
          MAC: Well, more people are using me..thks to Intel…sniffle. Oh…d@mmit, what’s this?
          PC: Welcome to the popular crowd,need a Vista for that..Mac?
          MAC: Not yet thks, but I do feel one coming on….lol

          Nothing more intoxitating than seeing tradgedy unfold, Mac users realizing that even their software is written by humans like MS is and therefore is flawed.

          ALL of you’s, might as well just give up and turn off your computers and go back to watching your HD TV’S. Such a waste of time to rant and rave about something that you have very little controll over, what so ever in the big picture, is not perfect, NEVER WILL BE and is broken, when brand new from right out of the box to your desktop and can never be fix to run perfect.

          Oh ya, dont forget to use Norton too as a add on insult you IT pros, if you really want too fill your system up with crap, that alone will do more damage to your computer than any virus, torjan, rootkit or hacker I’ve come across, anyday anytime and you get to pay for it too, got to love Nortons busniess savey, but hey, what do I know, you all way more smarter than me with your degrees, english major’s and typing skills. ask Mick he knows everything.

          That’s why there are Forums, so we can all get together and talk about THIS CRAP WERE ALL STUCK WITH, POINT OUT OUR TYPING SKILLS AND SPELLING ERRORS TO EACH other AND WHO IS MORE SMARTER THAN WHO AND HAVE MORE DEGREES in crap..REAL OR OTHER WISE OHHH THE BRAIN TRUST..What a bunch of ? dare I say….CRAP…..lol.

          Enjoy your Vista’s you all, me thinks thou has seen enough in here to see now. Not much.

          HAVE A SUPER DAY 🙂

        • #3223416

          heres to you intelligent people that is a load of

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Here it is ang2006. The world of crap

          crap & he needs to take his meds.Please can we get any lower than this.I thought this forum was for adults!!
          Ta Mick

        • #3223409

          Last word for Micky Mouse

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to Here it is ang2006. The world of crap

          You know what you problem is Mick, you been in here so long, that you got yourself and Hal9000 believing your own bull shit, and think you run the place, that’s another word for crap too by the way and you full of it, at both ends. problem is most of it comes out of your mouth. Guys like you are a dime a Dozen Mick and with a IQ too match your other end.
          See if you can figure that secret word out and that’s what you are and nothing more.

        • #3223384

          I hope thus is your last as we won’t tolerate your crap

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Here it is ang2006. The world of crap

          If you don’t like vista stay away from this forum.Also take what ever you need & keep away.
          ta mick (not micky mouse)
          your insults are crap!

        • #3223154
          Avatar photo

          Thank you very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :^0 :D :^0 :D :^0 :D

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Here it is ang2006. The world of crap

          Apparently you are incapable of understanding that a debate is a free flow of ideas between people who do not need to think the same and be the Zombies that you appear to associate with.

          As you can not address any points raised against your stated aims and just Flame away without any reasonable comments to make and constantly claim that [b]Mines Bigger that Yours[/b] I hope that you can run home to daddy to protect you from yourself, as you obviously need the help that only a father will offer their spoilt misguided child.
          You are fully entitled to your ideas but you are not entitled to expect others to agree with you just because you think that they should because you believe something. You’re probably one of the ones who describe M$ as [b]The Biggest Computer Company in the World[/b] when they are just a software maker and have absolutely nothing at all to do with the manufacture of computers. You’re welcome to your beliefs but if you think that others are blindly going to follow total trash that you push out you are in for a rude awakening, which you totally deserve.

          You are welcome to play [b]The Troll[/b] on any other sites that you like but remember that TR is devoted to IT Professionals so if you wish to try to pass off your uninformed views here you are going to get slapped down really fast. Then Boast that you where never taught to type doesn’t bode well for you either as that shows that you are not a full time IT worker in any sense of the word but enjoy your own immaturity and lack of knowledge as it will be your undoing that will leave you unemployable on the food stamp line where you belong.

          Col

        • #3225024

          merry xmas

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to WDUPCF,quoting an old English axiom

          & new year resolution take your meds & don’t use profanities.
          Ta TA MIck

        • #3224859
          Avatar photo

          You really need your Meds now!!!!!!!!!

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Humm?…looks like Mac is turning to crap too Mick

          OSX the Apple OS is Based on BSD not Unix and while they do have similar Commands they are about as alike as a $20.00 Mazda is to a Mercedes Benz.

          If you don’t know the differences between different OS’s why do you insist on making a fool of yourself? You could just as easily claim that OSX is a Form of Windows as M$ has brought the rights to Unix from SCO and agreed to work with Novel neither of which actually use BSD. But they have brought a share of Apple so Apple must be using M$ code right?

          But if you want to go back to the absolute basics it was Xerox using Unix who where the first company to develop a GUI for a PC and that ran on Unix where they could share CPU Power, RAM and everything else around a 1,000 machine Network.

          That’s something that neither M$ or Apple has been able to reproduce yet though they have been trying for over 30 years now. Of course if the Management of Xerox had not brought in Bill Gates and Steve Jobs we most likely would never have had a GUI or a pointing device as no one had as by then thought of them as necessary except the developers at Xerox of course.

          Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of World Domination if Xerox had of proceeded with their project and not slipped back to the Photocopier Business there would be no M$ today and an very small Apple who would be attempting to catch up on Xerox.

          [b]Interesting thought isn’t it?[/b]

          Incidentally the very first recorded case of Hacking occurred on the Melbourne Universities Unix Mainframe with the then high speed 60 Baud dial up modems of the day, but because there where no laws in place no crime was committed. What made it even worse was when the hacker community got hold of the [b]Security Bible[/b] that allowed them virtually unfettered access to computers connected to phone lines world wide where they could do as they please.

          No OS is fool proof but you don’t need to make it easy like M$ has. They lack any form of security at all even the NT products where weak in comparison to what a true OS was at the time and as time has passed M$ has fallen further behind so that using the words M$ & security in the same sentence is an Oxymoron.

          Col

        • #3223415

          i agree with you Hal

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to You really need your Meds now!!!!!!!!!

          the os is as good as the company that makes it.If everything was as good as they claim at MS why did they take so long.Also why did they have rewrite most of the source code only to discover more problems.Problems galore what’s around the corner.
          ta mick

    • #3224633

      Mick you like to post reviews from others-how about this

      by michael l hereid sr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      “Analysts such as JupiterResearch’s Michael Gartenberg say there is no reason for businesses to wait to deploy. In the past, he has recommended waiting for the first service pack, however he has changed his tune for Vista.

      “I don?t think that?s warranted this time around. I?ve been using every version of this OS, from early Longhorn builds all the way to RTM and so far, it?s been secure, rock solid and works well once you get used to the new UI,” he said.”
      And here is the url
      http://www.betanews.com:80/article/Vista_Office_2007_Debut_for_Businesses/1164905524
      Mike

      • #3223382

        yes but they have MS advertising on their site

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Mick you like to post reviews from others-how about this

        I’ve read it & it is positive spin whatever MS dishes out.
        From THE age Newspaper,
        Vista gold but cracked already,
        Various pirate websites have a version of Vista available to download, called “Vista BillGates”.

        It comes supplied with a product key, allowing users to install the operating system on their computers unhindered.

        Microsoft declined comment for this story, but it will no doubt work quickly to stamp out the piracy of its products, which it should be able to do fairly easily.
        ta mick

        • #3223379

          from builder au site

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to yes but they have MS advertising on their site

          for developers by developers.
          Cisco: Windows Vista is scary
          By Tom Espiner,
          A senior security expert at Cisco has admitted that aspects of Microsoft’s new operating system are worrying.

          Speaking at the Gartner Security Summit on Monday, Bob Gleichauf, the chief technology officer of Cisco’s security technology group, said integrating Vista into a complex IT infrastructure could present problems.

          “Parts of Vista scare me,” said Gleichauf. “Anything with that level of systems complexity will have new threats, as well as bringing new solutions. It’s always a struggle in security trying to build for what you don’t know.”

          Gleichauf told ZDNet UK that Cisco views Vista both as a bearer of possible solutions to security problems, but also as a potential trigger of security issues.

          “Vista will solve a lot of problems, but for every action, there’s a reaction, and unforeseen side-effects and mutations. Networks can become more brittle unintentionally,” said Gleichauf.

          Systems complexity needs to be taken into consideration in any action plan for Vista implementation, he added.

          “If you’re embracing Vista it’s not going to be 100 percent initially. It’s going to create more heterogeneity for a while,” said Gleichauf.

          Analysts from Gartner have also found many businesses are nervous about integrating the security features of the upcoming operating system with legacy systems.

          “Most organisations are cautious about Vista,” said Eric Ouellet, vice president for research, security and privacy at Gartner. “[Companies] already have security tools, which are being built into Vista. The risk is to go to another system ? there’s always going to be some hits,” Ouellet told ZDNet UK.

          “The risk you have to manage is ? is Microsoft going to get it right first time? Maybe yes, but are businesses going to take that risk?”

          Microsoft has not helped to reassure customers by pushing back the release date of the OS and changing some of the promised features.

          “People don’t know what’s coming down the pike,” said Ouellet. “TPM is now not fully integrated ? you can’t rely on the feature and function set. Microsoft moving the goalposts is definitely adding to the heartburn.”

          Tom Espiner, ZDNet UK, reported from London
          I’ve been saying that there are things that ms does not want people to know & i have been right all allong.
          ta mick

        • #3223373

          vista security easily breached

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to yes but they have MS advertising on their site

          Security experts warn of Vista-specific malware
          By Clement James, 1 December 2006

          Sophos reported that one Vista-affecting baddy, the Stratio-Zip worm, overtook Netsky-P as the most widely circulated piece of malware, accounting for one-third of the total threats reported.

          Following Stratio-Zip by a long way is Netsky-P, which is then followed by Bagle-Zip. Zafi-B is in fourth place, followed by Netsky-D, Nyxem-D and MyDoom-O. Eighth place goes to Mytob-C, then Sality-AA and Zafi-D is in tenth.

          “No operating system is 100 per cent secure as a standalone system, as end users utilise various alternative applications such as independent email clients, instant messaging, file sharing and more that open new doors for hackers,” said Ron O’Brien, senior security analyst at Sophos.

          “While Microsoft should be commended for the huge security improvements offered by Vista, every organisation should supplement their systems with compatible technology that defends against hackers at all entry points.

          “It won’t be long before cyber criminals develop Vista-specific malware or modify current threats to fit the bill. The Stratio-Zip worm, for example, remains on the top 10 list due to constant, minor alterations to its code that force security systems to re-identify the malware,” added O’Brien.
          what could i say except i told you so!
          ta mick

        • #3223369

          Most security tools are not ready for vista so ms i s releasing

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista security easily breached

          a product that’s not ready & there will be a huge lag in it’s takeup.
          Microsoft released Windows Vista for businesses on Thursday, but most security companies look like they need more time to deliver tools to protect the new operating system.

          Symantec, Trend Micro and CA are still working on products for Vista, representatives for the each of the companies said Thursday. McAfee is the only major security software maker that has products available now for the long-awaited Microsoft operating system.

          “The absence of security software from the major vendors will be another reason why business will not migrate to Vista right away,” said Natalie Lambert, an analyst at Forrester Research. That’s in addition to the lack of support for Vista in general applications, which are the tools businesses need to run their operations, she noted.

          Microsoft celebrated the launch of Vista in New York on Thursday. It is the company’s first major Windows client release since Windows XP shipped in 2001. On the back of Microsoft’s announcement, Symantec, McAfee, Trend Micro and CA all put out news releases promoting software for Vista PCs. Yet none announced actual product availability, except McAfee.

          “McAfee is the only major security vendor with products available today that support Vista right out of the gate,” said Rees Johnson, McAfee’s vice president of product management. McAfee VirusScan Enterprise 8.5 and McAfee AntiSpyware Enterprise 8.5 support Vista and are available now, the company said.

          The other large security vendors plan to release their corporate products for Vista over the next months. Symantec plans to release an update to AntiVirus Corporate Edition by December 31; Trend Micro expects to have a new version of OfficeScan ready in the first half of 2007; and CA’s new antivirus and antispyware is due out by early February.

          Now on News.com:
          Ballmer: Vista’s ready for business
          Pedal to the metal for electric cars
          Photos: A computer well ahead of its time
          Extra: Ten best, worst… and craziest uses of RFID
          Video: Get the facts on tech recycling
          “I really expect all vendors to have shipping solutions before the end of the first quarter,” Lambert said. “But even then, Vista rollouts will be time-consuming.” Forrester doesn’t expect mass deployment of the new operating system until 2008, she said.

          So, while lack of security tools for Vista could mean some people will hold off from upgrading right away, it is not a major issue for the majority of business users, Lambert said. “This is not a big deal, as we will not see enterprises switching to Vista immediately,” she said.

          Microsoft is more optimistic. The Redmond, Wash., company predicts that Vista will be adopted by companies at twice the speed as its predecessor, Windows XP. Twelve months after the release of Vista, Microsoft expects that usage share of the oft-delayed operating system in businesses will be double that of XP a year after it shipped, the company has said.

          Microsoft has promoted Vista as the most secure version of Windows yet, but has also emphasized that users will still need to run security software to protect their PCs. For example, 3 of the top 10 types of malicious software that hit PC users today can bypass Vista’s security defences, security company Sophos said on its Web site Thursday.

          “Microsoft continues to encourage customers to follow all of the steps of the ‘Protect Your PC’ guidance of enabling a firewall, applying all software updates and installing antivirus software,” a Microsoft representative said.
          Well you can’t fool all the people all the time only some of them eh michael!.
          ta mick

        • #3223364

          adobe plans to sue ms because it is blocking it’s products

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Most security tools are not ready for vista so ms i s releasing

          from working in vista.As we know ms has their own equivalents & it wants a virtual monopoly but adobe is now suing ms.
          Ive been saying that all allong if ms doesn’t capitulate it will have a raft of
          lawsuits that could cost big time.
          ta mick

        • #3223353

          That’s funny since in both Vista X86/64

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to adobe plans to sue ms because it is blocking it’s products

          I’m using Adobe products. I have also told you this before or don’t you remember Mick.
          Mike

        • #3225213

          michael i don’t know whether the use is on 64 bit

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to That’s funny since in both Vista X86/64

          but it might be on 32 bit as ms tries to muscle in on the competition& ms does not want to give them free reign.This is a deliberate thing as to the ins & whys well you have to judge for yourself.As to which platform i couldn’t tell you perhaps you might like to try their website.I just thought it might be interesting & i’m not making it up.
          ta mick

        • #3225192

          RE:”michael i don’t know whether the use is on 64 bit “

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to That’s funny since in both Vista X86/64

          Symantic and McAfee both want access to the kernal(X64) so they can addtheir own code to it. But MS says no-they want to be the only one to modify the code of the OS(guess who gets the blame if they allowed changing the code and it caused problems(MS))-which by the way I don’t blame them as I won’t use their products because that causes too many problems.
          As for Adobe-I run that in both X86/64.
          Mike

        • #3223248

          Mick that’s funny

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Most security tools are not ready for vista so ms i s releasing

          But AVAST-NOD32 and SOPHOS all have products that work with Vista, but then instead of sueing MS -they made their products comapatible instead.
          Mike

          PS AVG also has a product

        • #3225211

          well who knows what the hell is going on i would say ms

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Mick that’s funny

          ms want’s people to pay for the priveledge of using their op system.Call it highway robbery because that’s what is as more & more vendors are strugling to meet costs & find that they have an uphill battle with ms.I’m not surprised how ms is trying to rip them off for the privelege.
          ta mick

        • #3225178

          Man you must be dumb-MS is a busness

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well who knows what the hell is going on i would say ms

          So yes they want us to pay to use their software and the OEM’s want this operating system.
          Besides Vista Home Premium is the equivilant of Windows 95. In 1995 Windows 95 cost me $250-Vista Home Premium (Full Version)costs $240. Being a IT person(ahem) you know for a fact that OEM’s pay no where near that price.
          In fact with Vista Ultimate they will charge a premium price for their pc’s.
          Mike

        • #3224127

          I do know that ms is charging too much for their upgrades

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well who knows what the hell is going on i would say ms

          a lot of people are sure that the cost to upgrade are too high.They are happy with xp as it has been tested etc.
          ta mick

        • #3224079

          Over priced – lets see

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well who knows what the hell is going on i would say ms

          Vista Home Basic=XP Home oops same price
          Vista Home Premium=XP Media Center-ouch same
          Vista Business=XP Professional-oops again same price
          Vista Ultimate=OH sorry no equal in XP version
          As usual Mick your WRONG.
          Mike

        • #3224027

          Where?

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to well who knows what the hell is going on i would say ms

          Where do you find those prices? The same price? Not here in Europe, it’s real close to double. And if you were to considered that over-all prices and costs for software were going down, it makes M$ really look bad. As for the equivalant to ‘XP-Pro’, ‘Vista’ ‘Business’ isn’t quite there. You would have to have at least the ‘Ultimate’, which looks like the ‘Enterprise’ vrersion over here. (close anyway)
          Sometimes Michael, it looks like we’re on different Planets in this matter. (we are not looking at the same thing)

        • #3223152
          Avatar photo

          Or to add from one of the M$ User Groups Supported Newsletters

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Most security tools are not ready for vista so ms i s releasing

        • #3225209

          yep they call it work in progress

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Or to add from one of the M$ User Groups Supported Newsletters

          under the guise of work in progress & they call it a finshed product.I’d hate to be the buyer a pc with vista on it.The real finished product probably by 2009!!
          I think it’s rush hour at ms & they are just pulling the wool over our eyes.
          ta mick

        • #3225187

          Vista RTM is finished

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to yep they call it work in progress

          I’m running Vista Ultimate RTM right now with no problems.
          RTM is what you will be able to get after January 30th. As I said before most people will like Vista but the ABMers like you won’t.
          Mike

        • #3225168

          Opps Mick- I think you may need to re read the article

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Or to add from one of the M$ User Groups Supported Newsletters

          It’s talking about a few security firms having work to be done. Not MS.
          Mike

        • #3225143
          Avatar photo

          The real problem here is that

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Opps Mick- I think you may need to re read the article

          Vista is now available for Business to buy. But there is only 1 Software Company capable of supplying a Security Program and the OPK OEM Install Kit is still at the Bets Stage.

          So for all of use OEM Resellers we are supposed to use a Bets OPK tool to install the RTM product with no decent AV product available. Remember that the Volume License Stuff is already available and it’s harder to get a Volume License of XP Pro than it is to get a Volume License of Vista.

          I was bashing my head against that brick wall last week for a client who is upgrading all of their computers and M$ was attempting to force me to Vista instead of XP Pro which is the desired alternative at the moment.

          I would have been perfectly happy to buy the Vista with SA if I could be told that there was a backward Compatible License that I could use till the necessary Software & Drivers are available for the business.

          So far they have some Mission Critical Stuff that doesn’t run on Vista maybe in a few months time it will be OK but they unfortunately can not wait that long without the application running on their new workstations.

          Col

        • #3223260

          I said your Micky Mouse Mick, here’s why?

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to vista security easily breached

          Your the raven Vista crap hater here in this forum, Moron, read your posts you idiot, ok.

          Now let me guess, the next thing your going to try and do and once you get a couple of Fosters under you belt, is try and convince everyone, your the real Crocodile Dundee too with a PhD in Physics, now there’s a idea, like the Phd in operating systems you say you have too..lol which dont exsist. I think you better lay off the Fosters beer, Mate and take my meds instead..lol, at least they dont put you into lying, self denile, delusional, bullshit rumor, crap spining, talking mode state after a few.

          It’s I, who can’t,tolarate you Micky Mouse and you know why? You wrote this awhile back to a Michael

          “Quote” just like giving candy to a child!All you can say is i’m wrong.

          and all you can say Micky, is crap.

          That there, pretty much sum’s up the type of person you are, Micky Mouse and why you hang out in here.

          Your game, Bucko is to play Devil’s advocate with everyone and feed off their reaction, so I just though I’d point that out to ya Mate, that’s something else you really suck at too and have no degree in.

          You like A X-ray and that’s why your Micky Mouse. a phoney, and I do type and spell better than you by the way and have no degrees, fake or imagery and perfer a Intelligent Conversation with a Adult, verses the copy and paste world let’s get a reaction out of someone world you live in.

          If you were a Piece of Antique Furniture and your close too it from what I have read…I rate you about worhtless.

          There I rest my case too..lol

          ta Micky Mouse

          or is it daaaaaaa Mick.

        • #3223241

          Mick I hate to tell you this

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to vista security easily breached

          but no software designed by us poor humans is safe from mal ware. Be it BeOS-Linux or Apple OS all are vulnerable. Watch I bet MS like they did with IE 1 versus’s Netscape 2-they start out slow but they eventually get things right(Netscape 1-2-3 beat IE till version 4 when MS beat Netscape).
          Mike

          PS But then you know the biggest security risk is the one in front of the keyboard.

        • #3223149
          Avatar photo

          Interesting Michael but I seem to remember it slightly differently

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Mick I hate to tell you this

          M$ prevented their resellers from installing Netscape on any computer at risk of loosing the ability to sell M$ Product.

          The court case that was run over that was lost by M$ and they had to cough up for the damages that they had done to Netscape and others by their [b]Anticompetitive Business Practises.[/b]

          Wasn’t the first time and it certainly will not be the last M$ believe that if they can get something out of circulation for the time involved to get to the courts and have the case heard they win no matter the outcome of the courts and they are right.

          Col

        • #3223141

          HAL that maybe but

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Interesting Michael but I seem to remember it slightly differently

          During that time I was using Netscape 2-3 as I prefered it to IE but when IE reached version 4- I started using IE as I thought it was much better browser. With each version I would try both and use the one I considered best.
          Mike

          PS Hal I still do.

        • #3225208

          yep ms did shell out squillions for netscape keffufle

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Interesting Michael but I seem to remember it slightly differently

          i don’t think the’d want too many lawsuits just yet.As their system will be proven for what it is in the marketplace full of shortcomings & empty promises.
          ta mick

        • #3225190

          Actually I thought Netscape was better

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to yep ms did shell out squillions for netscape keffufle

          than IE till version 4 on both. There were also a lot who agreed with me.
          As far as shortcomings or empty promises-I know not all is in Vista as what they first announced but so what. But I think that most people will like Vista, of course all the ABMer’s like you will put it down.
          Mike

        • #3225034

          despite the pros &cons of either vista ,netscape or your

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to yep ms did shell out squillions for netscape keffufle

          Internet explorer:The people out there will decide the ultimate fate & that is if it works for them or not!
          ta mick

        • #3225025

          Merry xmas & happy new year!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Interesting Michael but I seem to remember it slightly differently

          your present iswith santa!
          cheers Mick

    • #3223195

      with so much crap information around people don’t often question

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      MS positive spin on how good vista is.When people really question vista & ms they find that vista has so much shortcomings that they wonder if they should buy it.Price factor prohibitive.There are many technical hitches still to overcome.As i stated previously ms has had many unresolved problems.
      ta mick

      • #3223181

        WHAT shortcomings-technical hitches-problems

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to with so much crap information around people don’t often question

        as usual all you can say is Vista has problems-I say what problems-I’m using Vista and I see no problems.
        Oh and on the pricebeing prohibative-Vista Home Premium is about equivilant to Windows 95 and in 1995-when I bought the Full Versionof 95 it cost me $250-Vista Home premium Full version costs $240.
        Mike

        • #3225029

          big does not mean better

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to WHAT shortcomings-technical hitches-problems

          By Mary Jo Foley describes below what’s going on at ms:By now, everyone?s heard Microsoft?s CEO Steve Ballmer?s repeated pronouncement that Microsoft will never again take five years to deliver a new version of Windows. But no one inside or outside seems to know exactly how Microsoft plans to make the Windows development process more agile.

          Many folks have ideas, however, as to how Microsoft can fix the myriad management and technical setbacks that resulted in Windows Vista looking little like the product based on initial ?Longhorn? expectations. And they?re offering freely their two cents about what ails Windows and how to remedy the problems to Steven Sinofsky (Senior Vice President of Windows and Windows Live engineering) and his band of merry Windows developers.

          Joel ?on Software? Spolsky kicked things off last week when he posted about his dissatisfaction with the ?Off? button in Windows Vista. Spolsky said:

          “I’m sure there’s a whole team of UI designers, programmers, and testers who worked very hard on the OFF button in Windows Vista, but seriously, is this the best you could come up with?”

          Channeling Mini-Microsoft, Spolsky continued:

          “Every piece of evidence I’ve heard from developers inside Microsoft supports my theory that the company has become completely tangled up in bureaucracy, layers of management, meetings ad infinitum, and overstaffing. The only way Microsoft has managed to hire so many people has been by lowering their hiring standards significantly.”

          Spolsky subsequently linked to Moishe Lettvin, a Google software engineer and former Windows developer who worked on the aforementioned Vista Off button. Lettvin details exactly why it took 40+ individuals more than a year to deliver the final Vista Off button:

          “In small programming projects, there’s a central repository of code. Builds are produced, generally daily, from this central repository. Programmers add their changes to this central repository as they go, so the daily build is a pretty good snapshot of the current state of the product.

          “In Windows, this model breaks down simply because there are far too many developers to access one central repository ? among other problems, the infrastructure just won’t support it. So Windows has a tree of repositories: developers check in to the nodes, and periodically the changes in the nodes are integrated up one level in the hierarchy. At a different periodicity, changes are integrated down the tree from the root to the nodes. In Windows, the node I was working on was 4 levels removed from the root. The periodicity of integration decayed exponentially and unpredictably as you approached the root so it ended up that it took between 1 and 3 months for my code to get to the root node, and some multiple of that for it to reach the other nodes. It should be noted too that the only common ancestor that my team, the shell team, and the kernel team shared was the root.

          “So in addition to the above problems with decision-making, each team had no idea what the other team was actually doing until it had been done for weeks.”

          (Word on the street is Sinofsky is taking a chainsaw to the Windows organization any day now. By the time all of the expected post-RTM Windows defections and cuts are done, Microsoft might have eliminated quite a bit of the middle-management bloat that seems to have been a big part of Vista?s problems.)

          The maze of Windows dependencies mentioned by Lettvin ? and former Windows chief Jim Allchin when I spoke with him last month ? is another thorny issue that needs solving in order for the Windows trains to run more on time.

          Allchin said that the Vista team made considerable headway in mapping out the Windows dependencies (and showed off a two-story-high, floor-to-ceiling dependencies map on the wall of Building 27 as evidence) in a way that would simplify Windows development going forward.

          An anonymous poster, claiming to be a Windows veteran, posted some more ideas for reducing Windows dependencies in the comments of Lettvin?s blog post.

          “There are three obvious solutions to this (Windows dependency) problem: 1. federate out the source tree, and pay the forward and reverse integration taxes (primarily delay in finding build breaks), or? 2. remove a large number of the unnecessary dependencies between the various parts of Windows, especially the circular dependencies. 3. Both 1&2″

          The poster said option 1 was the winning solution ?in large part because it could be executed by a small team over a defined period of time. #2 would have required herding all the Windows developers (and PMs, managers, UI designers?), and is potentially an unbounded problem.”

          While some Microsoft watchers seem to think Microsoft won?t be able to get a piece of software as big and complex as Windows on the faster (or at least, faster) track, I actually think the Redmondians can do it. Sinofsky mastered the art of delivering a new version of Office like clock-work, every two years. How did he pull this off? He never bit off too big a bite in any one release.

          I predict we?ll see more incremental, smaller-bang Windows versions, going forward. Industry-changing promises, ambitious feature sets and revolutionary releases is over for the Windows team. In the new world order, if and when Microsoft wants to deliver radically new ? and potentially risky ? Windows functionality, it can simply add the technology in the form of a Windows Live add-on.

          Anyone else see other ways Sinofsky and Co. can make the Windows team more agile?

          Ms has lately admitted that there are many bugs in the vista op system.
          even if one has the right software there are
          stillperfformance issues of dvd’s & Printers not working properly with vista.
          ta mick

        • #3225026

          merry xmas

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to WHAT shortcomings-technical hitches-problems

          present is with santa!
          Ta mick cheers

        • #3224912

          heres what the folk at the neowin website think of Vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to WHAT shortcomings-technical hitches-problems

          At this point, MS Vista = Total Crap.
          Of course, the folks at Microsoft are trying to spin it as if it’s the greatest thing since Sliced Bread.
          But it’s really just another MS Steaming Load.(piece of s.h.i.t)
          All MS fanboys may now flame and/or troll me, as their programing dictates. I’ll be the one ignoring them he said.
          ta mick

        • #3224911

          Hackers are salivating for vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to heres what the folk at the neowin website think of Vista

          Hackers ‘Salivating’ for Vista

          Security experts brace for viruses in Microsoft’s Windows Vista.

          By Scott Martin

          Microsoft’s long-awaited Windows Vista release Thursday for business customers will get more than just the passing attention of network administrators. That’s because hackers will be eagerly waiting to do what hackers do best: start some mischief.

          The software that took $7 billion, five years, and armies of programmers is now going to be the target of hacker attacks looking to prove a point: that no Microsoft software is secure.

          It’s also a chance to prove Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer, who’s made some bold security claims, dead wrong on Vista.

          That’s got security firms facing an early Christmas present?namely lots of problems and steady business.
          ?I will sleep well tonight knowing that Vista is not the end-all to security,? said Ron O?Brien, senior security analyst at Sophos, the afternoon before Microsoft’s historic release.
          Burlington, Massachusetts-based security firm Sophos, whose labs have been testing Vista, on Thursday released a top 10 list of virus concerns. The researcher said that Vista is already vulnerable via web email to the Stratio-Zip worm, which is the most widely circulated piece of malware.

          Stratio-Zip worm allows an intruder to gain access to and move in and out of a network without being noticed. The hacker’s activity is encrypted and undetectable to the average person. The computer that is infected with Stratio-Zip can be turned into a so-called node and that computer can become the hacker?s computer.

          “This is the most expensive issue out there,” said Ralph Echemendia, a well-known hacker and trainer. “I?ve come across at least three or four different corporate servers, for pretty large companies, that had already been ‘owned.’ Mostly they were used as gateways for spam.?

          Sophos’ anti-virus and malware testing found that while Vista’s upgraded email client Windows Mail identifies and stops all ten threats on its list, Stratio-Zip, Netsky-D, and MyDoom-O are able to bypass security when a third-party email client is used.

          Most often spread by email, the three Vista threats make up about 40 percent of all malware now in circulation, according to Sophos.

          “No operating system is 100 percent secure as a standalone system, as end users use various alternative applications such as independent email clients, instant messaging, file sharing, and more that open new doors for hackers,” Mr. O’Brien said in a security report he forwarded to Red Herring.

          Vista: Hacker Haven

          Mr. O’Brien said that hackers will be toying with Vista the moment it starts to get out.

          ?Based on what I?ve read, there are a number of people that are determined to find those vulnerabilities and want to claim the distinction of identifying those,” Mr. O’Brien said of the potential threat of hacker interest in Vista.

          Hacker Academy founder Aaron Cohen, who recently launched a hacking school, said hackers would likely be “salivating for Vista.”

          ?We have no interest in doing that,? Mr Cohen said of hacking that involves Vista. ?I?m sure there are people out there who are looking for the opportunity. What better way, than to expose Microsoft vulnerabilities.”

          Mr. Echemendia agreed that hackers would be seeking out new exploits in Vista. ?There?s no doubt about it.?

          McAfee on Wednesday issued a warning over the top security threats for 2007. Among the security firm’s concerns were the use of bots, programs that do automated tasks on computers, which will increase in favor with hackers, McAfee reported. The security company also noted that malware, or viruses that modify a disk’s files, will make a resurgence.

          This would all suggest Microsoft’s Vista, which will be in use in 2007, still offers no silver bullet against viruses.

          While McAfee did note that the number of rootkits on 32-bit platforms would increase, it said that protections would increase as well.

          Sophos said that it won’t be though long before hackers develop Vista specific malware or tweak current threats to work on the new software.

          An interview with Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer in May at the Churchill Club in Silicon Valley perhaps didn’t help matters with hackers.

          Ballmer: ‘Experts in how hackers attack’

          Churchill Club President Roger McNamee posed Mr. Ballmer with a question:

          “So give us a sense of on the security side, are we going to be done with the current generation of worms and viruses … while the hackers figure out the next opportunity?”

          Mr. Ballmer’s answer has been the talk of security circles since. Ballmer replied:

          “Subject to the tolerance levels of the fact that there might still be a small amount of human error, we will have eliminated the known attack vectors that people use against us today. You’ve got to understand today we’re the world experts in how hackers attack.”

          Those couldn’t have been bigger fighting words. Sophos’ Mr. O’Brien said that Microsoft’s past claims have disregarded that there were known vulnerabilities. “It stands to reason that these will be identified,” Mr. O’Brien said of those who would react to Microsoft’s statements.

          Mr. Echemendia said Ballmer’s words kicked in a “spur of activity” from hackers who wrote exploits in direct response to attack his statements.

          Sophos’ security analyst, however, gave credit to Microsoft for giving home users and small-business users who don’t have any security protection at least a very basic level of protection. However, he said, more elaborate networks are ?going to require more than is currently available in Vista.?

          Likewise, Mr. Echemendia gave some credit to Microsoft. He said that he has been called on to do quite a bit of work to train Microsoft programmers, and he said the software giant is trying to better understand some of the techniques used by hackers. He said part of the problem for Microsoft is having ten times the amount of code.

          ?The biggest issues is backward compatibility, which creates a lot of the security flaws,” he said. “They can?t just not make it backwards compatible with older systems. I think they are doing the best they can.”

          Nobody is expecting administrators to run out and replace systems with Vista right away. But virus vulnerabilities are a whole different concern.

          “I don?t know how Microsoft will address that these were able to run,” Mr. O’Brien said of the email vulnerabilities that affect Vista.

          ta mick

        • #3216698

          I think you just nailed it….

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to WHAT shortcomings-technical hitches-problems

          The Problem as I see it is what you just laid out.
          Ok, I’m glad you have the ‘Home-Premium’ version, but that won’t help me at all. What I would have to have is the super version (‘Vista- Business or Enterprise’ editions) And they’re not quite here yet. in fact, it seems they keep evolving even as we’ve been talking about them. Now I only see 5 versions comming available (Here in Germany anyway). What happened to the rest?
          I will have to get my hands on something even to see if can do what I (and others) need an OS to do. (and the ‘HOW’ as well).
          Home Premium might be fine for you, and that good for you. But that creates a problem also. If people like you can use it at home, and are happy with what they think it can do, they just won’t understand why they can’t use it at work, just as they did (or thought they did) with the XP platform.
          As for the cost, the prices you quoted sound about right, (with exchange rates thrown in of course) but that’s still double that of XP. And for what I would need (even just to test) is far too high.

        • #3216546

          Actually I have Ultimate RTM

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to I think you just nailed it….

          the same version you can buy on January 30th. Which is a a combination of Home Premium and business versions. I am totally satisfied with it.
          More than likely after January 30th you will be able to get a trial version of Vista.
          Mike

        • #3224011

          Thanks, but…

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to I think you just nailed it….

          That won’t do the job. I will need at least the ‘Enterprise’ version of ‘Vista’, and that just to do the test drive. The XP-Pro versions that I presently running, do more than your ‘Ultimate’ will do. The closest is the ‘Enterprise’ version. As for the end of January, (and a maybe, here at that) is too long a wait, just to find out the ‘If’, and more importantly, the ‘How’, it can / will perform. We have a big problem with that over here. To deploy systems anytime next year at all, we should have had to the ‘Enterprise’ version already in the IT shops. -d
          (and, yes, I can explain the why to that if you want, other wise I won’t waste space rattling on)

        • #3223987

          Actually dawgit Ultimate has all that Enterprise has

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Thanks, but…

          and actually more than enterprise. If you have Windows XP Pro you can upgrade(USA) to Ultimate for $259.
          Actually Ultimate will do more than XP Pro.
          Mike

        • #3223950

          again, thanks, but…

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to Actually dawgit Ultimate has all that Enterprise has

          I just don’t see that here, yet. I’m not saying that you’re not correct in what you have there. That’s not the point. It either, just isn’t here yet, as such, or it will be slightly different. (XP is different here in Germany than in the US, or even France, or GB, for instance)
          It’s the ‘wait and (to) see’ problem, that is the problem.

    • #3225028

      I would like to wish everyone at tech republic

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      A very Merry Xmas & happy Newy year!
      ta MIck
      Cheers!!

      • #3216697

        a little early ?:|

        by dawgit ·

        In reply to I would like to wish everyone at tech republic

        But same to you. Have a safe one. 🙂

        • #3224148

          I’m hitting the road for xmas & i may not have internet access

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to a little early ?:|

          I’m heading for the middle of australia for two weeks & there may not be Internet access.
          That’s why i’m wishing people merry xmas.
          ta mick

        • #3224054

          Santa was listining after all….

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to I’m hitting the road for xmas & i may not have internet access

          Thank the luck stars – no idiotic ravin over Xmas period. Excellent – I would like to say you will be missed, but then that would be a lie (and there was nowhere to copy and paste this info from).

          Ho-Ho-Ho

        • #3223874

          stone the crows if i find any resemblance of an internet connection

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Santa was listining after all….

          don’t count on missing me over xmas.But then you may be lucky.
          see ya later crocodile!
          ta mick (not dundee)

        • #3223854
          Avatar photo

          Well you could always take a NB with a Bigpond

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to stone the crows if i find any resemblance of an internet connection

          CDMA Wireless Card in it and post away to your hearts content. That has pretty good coverage in rural AU but at $30.00 for 10 hours it’s a bit expensive though very convenient.

          I don’t think that Bigpond has the G3 WiFi PCMCIA cards yet but they should ensure an even better coverage than the CDMA ones which are being fazed out in about 2 years time. Part of the reason why I didn’t go with the CDMA experience in my NB as by the time that the contract had ended I would have been very close to having a useless PCMCIA Card and no way of using it. Though for a wireless application 375 KBS Download is decent. Not great compared to hard wired connections but good enough for Wireless connections.

          Col

        • #3287748

          I’ll find something at one of the motels in alice

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well you could always take a NB with a Bigpond

          i’m thinking Of unwired but they may not have the coverage. Either way I’ll find a connection somewhere.
          Ta mick

        • #3224010

          Are you trying to say…

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to I’m hitting the road for xmas & i may not have internet access

          That the Rooos down there don’t do WIFI tele-commuting? :p

        • #3223997

          Merry Christmas Mick

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to I’m hitting the road for xmas & i may not have internet access

          I wish you and your’s the best of the holidays.
          I just wish you would when you give something as fact that you would back it up with proof. I have shot down most of your statements- you do sometimes get it right but not that often.
          Mike

        • #3224147

          did you know that vista networks will beoperating much slower

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to a little early ?:|

          than xp networks due to the way vista is defaulted by ms.Testing has shown that business networking will be much slower under vista than with xp.
          ta mick

        • #3224059

          What testing-where

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to did you know that vista networks will beoperating much slower

          As usual you say something and we are supposed totake it as fact, sorry but give me proof.
          Mike

        • #3223878

          gaming is slower than xp

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What testing-where

          from tech2. website Gaming on Vista to be 10-15% Slower Than XP
          By: Gaurav Seth |

          Microsoft is telling certain folks in the gaming industry that gaming on Vista will be at least 10-15% slower than Windows XP. This is because one has to keep the 3D desktop loaded all the time. This is ironic since Microsoft’s claim to the developers was that the same API (Application Protocol Interface) can do stuff up to four times faster.

          So gamers, what then? Stick to Windows XP? Well, you cannot run Direct X 10 titles on Windows XP. But there aren’t any Direct X cards in the market anyway.

          So in case you play games like the Battlefield 2 and FEAR, they would run 10 to 15% slower on the Vista. As usual with Microsoft you are not left with pretty much of a choice?take it or leave it.

          ta mick

        • #3223876

          this one’s for you michael

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gaming is slower than xp

          from website:http://www.apcstart.com/node/4226
          Could Vista actually slow down networks?
          31st October 2006 James Bannan Vista, Windows
          Vista?s much-touted new networking features like the Network Centre, Network Map, Sharing and Discovery and UPnP Media Sharing could not be possible without some extra grunt at the networking application level.

          A default installation of Vista has the standard Windows networking protocols and clients installed and enabled ? Client for Microsoft Networks, QoS Packet Scheduler, File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks and Internet Protocol TCP/IP ? but it also features some extras. Namely Internet Protocol TCP/IP Version 6 and the two components of LLDP (Link-Layer Discovery Protocol) ? the Discovery Mapper and Discovery Responder.

          Loaded up: Vista’s default networking setupOr to put in another way, that?s one client, two services and four protocols in Vista versus one client, two services and one protocol in XP.

          Common sense would dictate that Vista is, by default, going to be a lot chattier on the network than XP. By and large, that?s not too much of a problem. Most home networks are running 100Mb or even 1000Mb wired ethernet, which has plenty of bandwidth to cope with excess chatter without degrading performance. But consider 54Mb or 108Mb shared wireless connections, or business environments which have not one or two, but dozens or hundreds of PCs/devices on their network, busily chattering away. Under these conditions, increased network traffics isn?t something which can simply be absorbed ? it?s a definite problem.

          Or course in large business environments, there are generally de-centralised switches which provide bandwidth throttling, QoS and broadcast limitation to keep the backbone relatively free of excess chatter. But that won?t eradicate localised bandwidth degeneration.

          Vista Chatter Put To The Test

          To test just how Vista compares to XP on the network Chat-O-Meter, I rigged up a little experiment using VMWare (my favourite app since XTree Gold). I created two virtual XP machines and two virtual Vista machines, all configured absolutely stock-standard. The machines all ran on a host-only virtual network, meaning that they couldn?t NAT out to the general network, which would result in traffic over and above the absolute minimum.

          The idea was to see how much traffic was generated between two machines running the same OS in absolute isolation. The host machine ran Ethereal and monitored the virtual network. The advantage of this setup is that there?s no external traffic interfering with the internal network, and the peer-to-peer traffic between workstations is captured too, as two machines on the same network will generate more traffic that one isolated machine ? they need to sort each other out and determine who?s boss.

          The only changes I made to the workstations was to disable the Automatic Update service on the Windows XP machines, and the Windows Update service on the Vista machines.
          Could Vista actually slow down networks?
          31st October 2006 James Bannan Vista, Windows
          Vista?s much-touted new networking features like the Network Centre, Network Map, Sharing and Discovery and UPnP Media Sharing could not be possible without some extra grunt at the networking application level.

          A default installation of Vista has the standard Windows networking protocols and clients installed and enabled ? Client for Microsoft Networks, QoS Packet Scheduler, File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks and Internet Protocol TCP/IP ? but it also features some extras. Namely Internet Protocol TCP/IP Version 6 and the two components of LLDP (Link-Layer Discovery Protocol) ? the Discovery Mapper and Discovery Responder.

          Loaded up: Vista’s default networking setupOr to put in another way, that?s one client, two services and four protocols in Vista versus one client, two services and one protocol in XP.

          Common sense would dictate that Vista is, by default, going to be a lot chattier on the network than XP. By and large, that?s not too much of a problem. Most home networks are running 100Mb or even 1000Mb wired ethernet, which has plenty of bandwidth to cope with excess chatter without degrading performance. But consider 54Mb or 108Mb shared wireless connections, or business environments which have not one or two, but dozens or hundreds of PCs/devices on their network, busily chattering away. Under these conditions, increased network traffics isn?t something which can simply be absorbed ? it?s a definite problem.

          Or course in large business environments, there are generally de-centralised switches which provide bandwidth throttling, QoS and broadcast limitation to keep the backbone relatively free of excess chatter. But that won?t eradicate localised bandwidth degeneration.

          Vista Chatter Put To The Test

          To test just how Vista compares to XP on the network Chat-O-Meter, I rigged up a little experiment using VMWare (my favourite app since XTree Gold). I created two virtual XP machines and two virtual Vista machines, all configured absolutely stock-standard. The machines all ran on a host-only virtual network, meaning that they couldn?t NAT out to the general network, which would result in traffic over and above the absolute minimum.

          The idea was to see how much traffic was generated between two machines running the same OS in absolute isolation. The host machine ran Ethereal and monitored the virtual network. The advantage of this setup is that there?s no external traffic interfering with the internal network, and the peer-to-peer traffic between workstations is captured too, as two machines on the same network will generate more traffic that one isolated machine ? they need to sort each other out and determine who?s boss.

          The only changes I made to the workstations was to disable the Automatic Update service on the Windows XP machines, and the Windows Update service on the Vista machines.

          Could Vista actually slow down networks?
          31st October 2006 James Bannan Vista, Windows
          Vista?s much-touted new networking features like the Network Centre, Network Map, Sharing and Discovery and UPnP Media Sharing could not be possible without some extra grunt at the networking application level.

          A default installation of Vista has the standard Windows networking protocols and clients installed and enabled ? Client for Microsoft Networks, QoS Packet Scheduler, File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks and Internet Protocol TCP/IP ? but it also features some extras. Namely Internet Protocol TCP/IP Version 6 and the two components of LLDP (Link-Layer Discovery Protocol) ? the Discovery Mapper and Discovery Responder.

          Loaded up: Vista’s default networking setupOr to put in another way, that?s one client, two services and four protocols in Vista versus one client, two services and one protocol in XP.

          Common sense would dictate that Vista is, by default, going to be a lot chattier on the network than XP. By and large, that?s not too much of a problem. Most home networks are running 100Mb or even 1000Mb wired ethernet, which has plenty of bandwidth to cope with excess chatter without degrading performance. But consider 54Mb or 108Mb shared wireless connections, or business environments which have not one or two, but dozens or hundreds of PCs/devices on their network, busily chattering away. Under these conditions, increased network traffics isn?t something which can simply be absorbed ? it?s a definite problem.

          Or course in large business environments, there are generally de-centralised switches which provide bandwidth throttling, QoS and broadcast limitation to keep the backbone relatively free of excess chatter. But that won?t eradicate localised bandwidth degeneration.

          Vista Chatter Put To The Test

          To test just how Vista compares to XP on the network Chat-O-Meter, I rigged up a little experiment using VMWare (my favourite app since XTree Gold). I created two virtual XP machines and two virtual Vista machines, all configured absolutely stock-standard. The machines all ran on a host-only virtual network, meaning that they couldn?t NAT out to the general network, which would result in traffic over and above the absolute minimum.

          The idea was to see how much traffic was generated between two machines running the same OS in absolute isolation. The host machine ran Ethereal and monitored the virtual network. The advantage of this setup is that there?s no external traffic interfering with the internal network, and the peer-to-peer traffic between workstations is captured too, as two machines on the same network will generate more traffic that one isolated machine ? they need to sort each other out and determine who?s boss.

          The only changes I made to the workstations was to disable the Automatic Update service on the Windows XP machines, and the Windows Update service on the Vista machines.
          ta mick

        • #3289091

          Who CARES

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to this one’s for you michael

          as no person in their right mind runs the default settings!!!

        • #3225286

          TO MICK = MORON VOL 3

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to gaming is slower than xp

          The only thing in this forum that’s 10-15% slower, is your Micky Mouse Brain Mick and your lap-dog cronie wana bee, Hal9000, who I’m replying too in this post also, from his message to me awhile back and who should also get another eyeball by the way, to go with the other one, this way Hal , you’ll will be able to see clearly for sure and for the frist time who’s ass you been kissing all along, then you would be a Hal1800 update for Micky’s Mouse 2 cheeks, not just one. lol

          DAAAAAAA, The Directx 10 cards you say dont exsist Micky, on the market are the Nvida GeForce 8800 GTX and the GeForce 8800 GTS and have been available for well over a month, you should get out of your cave, more often Micky for sunlight since you live in the dark, before you go compelety coo-coo, posting another one of your miss leading Moron, stupid ass, comment as always.

          Why dont you read about Directx 10, and what it will do for PC gaming instead of mouthing off on another subject you know very little about, which is just about everything else in here it seems too, you fool.

          oh ya forgot , you cant read, only cut and paste.

          Directx 10 in Vista, is the frist Directx for the PC with AI and a unified systems architecture, built from the ground up with features that will detect and set up the NEW cards for Max performance and visuals From the Video drivers for 10, from the Card manufactures and when and only when a Directx 10 game or program is detected and is coded for that detection, for enhanced visuals and speed, WHY?.. For the frist time IT TAKES THE BUDDEN OFF THE CPU by more than half and it’s resouces and so much more, evem with a directx 9 game on vista will benift from Directx 10 too., but you cant do this with 9.0c card because it’s fixed, like all present day 9.0c GPU’S.

          So run Vista full on, it cant bog down because of the new way it allocates the resouces and work load stupid.

          GETS THE GPU TO DO SOME WORK FOR THE FRISTIME on a PC AND OUTSIDE OF THE FIX Architecture all rigs HAVE using a Directx 9.0 and up card.

          ATI has the frist AND ONLY ONE in the XBOX 360 AND VISTA HAS THE NEW VERSION OF THIS

          YOU NOT SEE ANY THING YET PS3 WHEN THIS KICKS IN.

          Pleae dont tell me and everyone else here too, you got that code and you have worked on iT, and Directx 10 wont make the grade either according to Micky Mouse, bla bla bla bla bla….lol

          It will activate other features, like the new pixel shaders 4.0 and a whole lot more features you know nothing about also and unless of course you manully over ride it’s setings via the cards own users interface.

          All games, will run better on Vista inherently with the right drivers that are always being fine tuned AND IMPROVED on, well most to the time, with every release..and with a Directx 10 CARD installed, waiting for a Directx 10 game or program, yes I said program too, it will run even better on Vista period, as long as the supplied drivers for the Video card and the games code or programs are not riddle with bugs.

          Fix an issue, create another one. But that’s another matter subject you know nothing about either.

          For XP USERS.a new Directx 9.0L will be availible later in the year. This will be a good enhancement from 9.0c for XP users..they will recive, a little of the 10 layer overlay and manage to Squeeze in to 9.0c, that why it’s called 9.0L, but that’s all, it still no Directx 10, since 10 was built only for and from the ground up For Vista in mind and yes, you will be able to run all your present games on it too better, just wont see and get all the eye candy of course and speed since it’s not a Directx 10 game..daaaa, hell we have’nt even Max out 9.0c yet or Pixel shader 3.0 and now comes 10 and a shit load of more new goodies.

          Of course Hal9000 ,will still be in awe about the Intel 2.6 running on a 64 bit OS, while waitng for his upgrade to a Hal1800, for 2 cheeks, keep me posted Hal9000, ok, np, i just pop in once in a while and get the update anyway’s..lol

          The cards which you say Micky Mouse are not on the market,I can go out buy tomorrow from any store or from my suppliers , since my company builds OVER CLOCKED custom gaming rigs and have already built 5 with those new cards in them ,for people who have more money than they know what to do with and who are now waiting for the frist DIRECTX 10 game, but have the bragging rights any ways.

          One for us too, with Vista RC2 for a testing platform, amazing, with the odd glich, but that from the early 10X driver for the card and not Caused by Vista.

          There’s so much more too this Micky Mouse, which are facts and not, BS HALF TRUTHS YOU SEEM TO SWIM IN UP TO YOUR NEXT AND GET OFF ON, WITH YOU LAP-DOGS, NOT ALL LAPDOGS HERE BUT A FEW TO KEEP TOO GIVE YOU A NON-PURPOSE.

          So, Send me some money Mickey Mouse I go buy one for you that’s not on the market and send it too ya for your in depth expert opinon, and not a cut out and paste picture of one, a real one once you figure out were the slot is for it.

          #Tip 1…get a new Motherboard frist ok, very important.

          THEN AGAIN LIKE I SAY BEFORE I DONT LIVE IN THE BACKWOODS, OR CAVE LIKE YOU, CUT AND PASTE COPY GUY.

          IF THIS FORUM WERE A TOWN, you’d be run out of it already, for your stupidy level alone.

          I’d educate you more on this subject, but I’d be wasting more time of your Valuable TIME TO BLOG THIS SITE WITH YOUR MINDLESS CRAP and Knowledge , about SUBJECTS that are over your head and out of your range. like every thing else that’s still coming out of your mouth. thank God for lapdogs.

          DAAAAA, MICKY MOUSE

          GOBBLE GOBBLE.

        • #3289776
          Avatar photo

          Sorry but I didn’t know that you where that way inclined

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to TO MICK = MORON VOL 3

          However I think that you should look at your addition as when you add 9,000 to 9,000 you get 18,000 not 1,800. Perhaps you where using the Calculator in Vista Beta 2 to perform the calculation and that is your explanation for the error. :p

          As for Brown Nosing you are the one doing this as you are defending the indefensible in the form of M$ who are unable to offer a Operating System Software for the currently available hardware. Go and buy your new Quad Core CPU or dual Core with HTT and see which OS you can actually use on it to allow it to be driven to 100% capacity. There isn’t one that comes from M$ unless you want to run a Server Application on your Desktop and then your precious games will not be all that great. Then look at the legal implications of just what comprises a CPU. One wafer of Silicon is what both Intel & AMD claim while M$ claims the number of cores on that wafer. Even you must see a pattern forming here. 😀

          Even you have to accept that with Vista more is missing from the original announced package than is present and Win FS has been promised since the NT3.5 days it was supposed to have been developed and integrated into a M$ OS by NT4. Where is it now? When if ever will M$ be able to deliver what they claimed to have developed? I could go on with the things that are missing out of the OS that are important to it’s operation but I’ll let you lick your wounds when you realise what a fool you’ve been. :p

          Face facts M$ is constantly falling further behind the [b]Bleeding Edge of Technology[/b] and the faster that the technology developers the further behind M$ is getting. Both Intel and AMD will have their 8 Core CPU out by the end of 2007 and M$ will just have released Vista which can run 2 CPU’s not the 8 that will be available on 1 chip so unless M$ can manage to pull the proverbial [b]Rabbit out of their Hat[/b] they are stuffed and will be dead and buried as no one will be willing to use their Software on their new computers as they will not work to the level that the computers are capable of working. Perhaps you’ll be happy with only using a small % of the CPU that you’ve paid so much money for but me personally I want to get 100% capacity out of every CPU that I buy for both myself & customers. But you are entitled to your opinion and sexuality no matter what else. 🙂

          Col

          Edit just for you here are two of my eyes as of 9-11-2001. You may have some slight memory of that date . 😀

          http://preview.tinyurl.com/pkxs4

        • #3289721

          as Usual you just shoot your mouth off Show what a dum

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to TO MICK = MORON VOL 3

          arese you are.Of course you are talking from your arse.The very things you talk about are utterly wrong& you don’t really appreciate the waydirect x works with games & the way hardware & software interact.I have never said anything what you say that graphic cards of direct x 10 are out.
          graphic cards that don’t utilise directx 9
          will not work with cards that are like geforce 4 with open gl will not work on the aero interface on vista.Vista uses the pixel shader 2.0 which is a problem if your card does not support direct x 9.
          So the status quo is don’t buy anything that’s less than the 8000 or the 8800.The recommendation i got is don’t buy any of the current cards as they will be obsolete
          by july 2007 when a new batch of better cards will be available that will work better.So you don’t know anythingyou dum arse.Nobody knows thata particular card will work with vista or not as further testing needs to be done particularly with the direct x 10.You say that they run well .I got news for you so many fail the tests & blow as they overheat.You have no idea of whats involved in the design & manufacture of these cards.You dum arse you.
          Your comments are very insulting & innaccurate & i’m sure Hal is very much pissed off with you!
          MIck
          MICK

        • #3289653

          WDUPCF-No need to be insulting

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to TO MICK = MORON VOL 3

          I agree gsaravin does a lot of cut and paste-which he thinks supports his position. He has also not shown me that he really knows what he’s talking about.
          Now Hal 9000-I do believe he knows what he is talking about. He is very knowledgeable about IT. I may disagree with him but we live in differant countries-where costs are differant. Sometimes we in the USA forget we can get many things that others can not.
          Mike

        • #3289572
          Avatar photo

          Actually I got a good laugh out of the comments expressed here

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to TO MICK = MORON VOL 3

          But I particularly liked the inability to add 9,000 to 9,000. 😀

          However I thought that the closing comment [i]GOBBLE GOBBLE.[/i] Which is a male Homosexual invitation to Oral Sex was just over the top. 🙂

          I’m still laughing from the above comment. :^0

          Col

        • #3289501

          TO MICKY MOUSE HAL AND SR

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to TO MICK = MORON VOL 3

          This one, again is easy and if you see any speeling mistakes…SUE ME OK…LOL

          Most of you IT type people as Usual and belive me I know plently, even live with one, go figure..lol prove over and over again their lack of Knowledge, when it comes to softhware behavior and hardware from the Desktop gaming point of view and remeber, I said lack of Knowledge, not Stupidity, Only Mick has that one coverd in spades in here, so your safe.

          1.To Micky Mouse…you said the Directx 10 cards are not on the market, if that’s not you that said that, then you twice as stupid for posting it to begin with, IF YOU NEW THERE WAS, but then you like doing that , misinformation, POSTING CRAP now that’s Stupidity, but than, that’s why you full of it too IF NOT THAN OF COURSE YOU BOTH WRONG…your, Period, end of story, sorry about your luck, get over it and stop trying too divert the issuses, every time someone sees garbage talk, flying out out your mouth and your caught which is all the time,

          Better yet, go find a lid and put it on yourself, it stinks up this forum that would otherwise be way better without you and your type in it ok, Just to stir things up with your Ignorance too get a reaction, your a Joke Mick, DEAL WITH IT.

          Your reply back to me on this subject, about Directx 10 is nothing more, than that too, from a Babbling idiot, no nothing reply wanna bee, which you are and a waste of space in this forum. ta ta Micky.

          2.To hal9000, sorry for being a bit rude, hal, but I set this up some what in Directly, (exsuse the pun) to see if once again you would come to the rescue, some what too Pin Head and you did shorta, you way ahead of that Moron, hal9000, why waste your time with him.

          3.But Hal, also, your reply back to me, had nothing to do, what so ever with what I was talking about, but never the less and again I thank you for pointing out a typo error in my math hal9000, lol..dam good eye you have there, but again you miss the rest of it too.

          let me update you on Vista and why you seem so confused about CPU’s and the OS and there relationship with each other and the mother boards, from a Desktop and gaming point of view and not the server world, blade or otherwise most of you guys live in and have to deal with.

          If it were not for us Gamers hal9000, demanding faster CPU’S and Video cards too play are stupid games on…you guys and eveyone else would still be using Pentium 75’s at home or worse 486 dx 100’s for companies that buck upgrades.

          4. So Forget pretty much all what you know about the past setups, when it comes too single core, single thread CPU’S, on old Mother boards with or without Multi-socket CPU capabilities with the OS back then, all the rules have change now and nothing from the pass now and how it is use to work, can be applied here any more or too your confused state with Vista in which your reply was based on, at least you, I think you will try to understand hal9000, unlike the other idiot.

          Also looks like most of yous have not or even bother to update yourselfs with the white papers in this field were the real Knowledge base is, guess yous playing it safe by hanging out with motor mouth in the cut and paste world, drawing at straws..for Micky Mouse…I have too know and as much about what’s going in the gaming world as best I can, not half truth’s, rumor spreading, misinformation and lies. like I said, My company FRIGG’N COMPUTERS INC, builds custom over clocked gaming rigs, or did you forget that point all together and just look for spelling errors again….lol

          The button line here is, the fastest and most stable desktops on the planet are gaming Rigs, HAL9000, and Micky mouse, they have too be, care to debate that one.

          Voodoo, a Canadain company ,which was the frist and started it all in the early 90’s and is the oldest, out of all of them by the way all, is now part of HP, Alienware, Falcon Northwest, came later and others, like me work with the lastest cutting edge hardware, and push it even more, till it breaks or works, some if it good, some of it not so good, trust me, nothing is ever going to be 100% in this world with this stuff.
          You can have the best of every in that Rig, but if one maufacture of chipsets put out a bad one, then you got a nightmare in a box and the OS will behave by the some of it’s parts, I’ve been building custom systems for over 5 yrs now and you will never see a sis or Via chipset in any of my Rigs, they like norton, poison.

          That’s why it’s such a copy and paste world in here. with so much misinformation, brought to by Mickey Mouth, plus the fact, you have this Moron at the wheel in here. like a crash test dummy, who thinks he runs the place and it’s his own forum, that should be your frist clue, where this Micky Mouse is coming from.

          5. Vista is the frist Massive Tera Ram capable, Muilty core, Muilty thread OS from Microsoft, for everyone, hal9000, that’s why it’s so huge, try and get Mac X OS to do what this one is going too do, it cant and It’s not and for the frist time, depended on how many single Thread CPU’S you have on the mother board like the others were, do you not think Microsoft knows whats going on over at Intel, AMD ATI, NVIDA and vise visa, whats going to go down the tubes frist and then might come out of the pipes after, way before we know, thats why they rule.. case in point.

          Windows 2000/ XP, 2000’s younger brother, XP as you know lets say, had a pretty face make over, some new shoes and went out with holes in his pants, but still gets the most dates, unlike his cousin Mac Who’s even prettier looking, drives a nice looking car with a new engine in her from Intel, but after while , you find out, not too many people want date him, because all he wants to do is take lots of pretty pictures make movies and listen to music….boring after a while really, then you go out and buy a PC to play all the Games, not just some from the cousin.

          So, lets see, 1 Single, one thread CPU for 95 and 98, = 1 THREAD. Then comes NT 4.0 2000/XP = NOW CAN USE 2 to 4 SINGLE THREAD CPS, DEPENDING ON THE MOTHER BOARDS, DUAL OR QUARD BOARD configuration AND LATER CANGE THE SOCKET ADD A HT CPU, AND NOW DOUBLE AGAIN. 1 CPU BECOMES 2 THREADS A DUAL BOARD BECOMES A 4 THREADER AND A Quard BOARD BECOMES A 8 THREADER AND MAX IT OUT AND THEN WERE DO YOU GO, WELL AGAIN ChANGE THE SOCKET ADD 2 CORES TO ONE SINGLE CPU AND YOU GET MY POINT AND BY THE WAY INTEL HAD JUST FINISHED 2 MONTHS AGO TESTING OUT A 16 AND 32 CORE PROCESSOR IN THERE R&D, SO YA…

          THEY WAY AHEAD OF THE GAME AND ONLY LET US KNOW WHAT AND WHEN THEY WANT US TO KNOW THINGS LIKE THE REST OF THEM, THAT INFO LEAK OUT BE MISTAKE, OR WAS IT? MY TAKE ON IT AND IT’S TIMING WAS TOO PUT THE FEAR OF GOD INTO AMD

          SO HUMM?..WERE WILL THEY BE NEXT YEAR, WHEN THEY ALL READY CHECKING OUT 16 AND 32 CPU CORES. AGAIM MY TAKE IS Intel WILL SKIP 6 CORE AND GO TO 8 CORE BY THE END OF THE YEAR, THE COMBO’S AND CONFIGURIONS FOR THIS NEW WAY, ARE AMAZING AND AS THEY GET SMALLER TOO, EVEN MORE INTRIGUING

          HEY WHAT ABOUT MOTHER BOARD THAT CAN HOLD 4 32 CORES 64 BIT CPU’S, IT WILL COME AND FOR VISTA, IT WILL HANDEL IT NO PROBLEM.

          WOW, AND DONT FORGET WHAT WERE USING RIGHT NOW and on the same OS too that was compiled almost 10 yrs ago with holes in it with the odd make over, or did microsoft some how manage too sneak in and rewrite 2000 and XP for all of us when the dual cores CPU’S just came out and we were all asleep one night and had a automatic update, no it was design from the start, at that time with Intel, again, that’s why they rule and since Intel knew it was going to make HT CPU’S, long before we knew, well the rest is history, also keep in mind the Bios update one must have too for Mother boards that were design at that time to run HT with that socket and this feature later, again through a bios update for HT ready mother boards,… scoket 478, ASUS P4P800 Dual channel ddr Ram with AI for over clocking and so on.

          6. Vista changes everything, hal9000, you can throw any amount of cores at it 4,8,16,32 theres no limit, I repeat any amount of cores, Tera Ram to boot too and that will be needed any ways of course to keep track of all the treads running at the same time as the CPU’S get core pumped over the next few years,
          while AMD and ATI, make the worlds frist hyper CPU-GPU combo and ya I know there one company now, I deal with them whem I build My rigs.

          So lets do the math ok hal900 since you were so kind to point that out earlier.

          Company upgrades to Vista Business OS or ultr and upgrades there mother boards to run Quard-core XEON processors on there servers, geez hal9000, guess Vista is running 4 core CPU’s already, no problem, X the number of CPUS and there cores on the mother board of choice, desktop or server grade. Quard-core XEON, MINUS THE GAMING ASPECT and so how many threads can we have running at once hal9000, it will be amazing in the next little while or DID this company just get riped off, by Vista base, on your reply back too me in how you think it works…then not being totaly stupid, THIS COMPANY, made sure too that the motherboards that were avaialble at that time were hopfullLY able to run 6 or 8 cores later on the same socket , if Intel so chooses with a bios update and not another major socket change to the mother boards and chipset for a while, till the next Major rip out NEW SOCKET lets upgrade and maintain again comes again, to keep everyone employed and busy

          So when they make it and they will, you can throw any amount of cores at Vista and it will not only run it, it will eat it for lunch, just add lots of Ram to keep track of ALL THE THREADS.

          It was design from the start to run like this, and belive it or not hal9000, it was also design to run like this for gamers too, one other reason it took so long to get it out, that’s why Directx 10 is for Vista only and not XP..WHOLE NEW UNIFIED Architecture.

          Guess they had to stop for a bit, put the brakes on along the way with there problems and listen to Intel, AMD, ATI, NVIDA, problems too, then revise and rethink their roadmap, never mind the others with there CPU, GPU AND CHIPSETS directions, go back and rewrite code so they can talk to each other later for the New brave world of Multi-core processing and hang on to as much of the OLD legacy they could too,once the smoke cleared and for companys who would upgrade but keep those 10-50 or more $35000 A WACK color printers and all.

          Yes hal900, I do you agree with you on one point, it was a shame FS didnt make the cut..that there, would of been worth the price of admission to see that fly. but HEY just a new way AGAIN of file allocation anyways and retrieval, like FAT, FAT 32 TO NTFS, who knows, we just might see it yet, total cost for all the delays for Microsoft induced by it or not, with all the other new programs BELLS AND WHISLES to keep us employed, amused and Entertained, last time I checked, 5 yrs 7 Billion

          So, HAL9000 tell Micky , go get 7 Billion and build a better OS that works perfect for everyone, since he knows it all and is the Genius here in this, his MICKY MOUSE CLUB.

          TC

        • #2502488

          TO HAL9000 no turkey here lol

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to TO MICK = MORON VOL 3

          Hi hal9000, now you have me lmao for a few moments….at least you have a sence of humor and the frist one too show it, that’s cool and yes I was bit out of line with lapdog comment, sorry, even I now and then, can get carried away too.

          Now with REGARDS to the Gobble Gobble comment to Micky. This was my way of saying he’s a Turkey, He be the last person I ever ask out for a date even if he was a chick… too much about Bitchen, about the movie, how bad it was, Microsoft made that and dinner well they dont know how too cook I can do better and I’m right they there all wroung…then I’d ask her to step out of the car and accidentally run her over..oops speak too me speak too me.hell.on second thought, drive away, drive away…..lol

          He had mention in one of his post he was heading out to OZ and I was really hoping he bump into Dorthy and her dog toto and those munchens get married and never come back.

          He also mention some thing about having turkey…when the light bulb came on..lol so I guess he miss that one along with everything he talks about when he comes back foaming at the mouth as awalys..lol…So Hal9000 take care..and Merry Christmas, I’m out of here now and tell Mickey mouse,I just gave him a taste of his own Medicine, in how he treats people in here to see how He likes for a change too. I’m finished playing with him now.Poor boy, needs all the attention he can get.

          …I have a very real job too do now, besides waste any more of my time with the likes of Him and that’s hopfully save my Dads life now since he was told last Monday he has lung and liver cancer and is dying…not much of a Christmas for me and my family I’m affaid or for him and this not a lol, at this point…amazing what can happen in a blink of a eye….dont read into that hal, it was not ment for you that way, just a statment…take care hal9000

        • #2502192
          Avatar photo

          My Condolences

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to TO MICK = MORON VOL 3

          I hope your father isn’t suffering at all as from your description things don’t look all that good.

          With Lung & Liver one will be a secondary so that doesn’t bode well for him at all. I just hope that he doesn’t suffer.

          Regards

          Col

        • #3224009

          How? ?:|

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to did you know that vista networks will beoperating much slower

          That is one of the things we sure would like to know. But did any-one get to find that out, pro, or con? M$ has not let out the full tilt versions for any-one to get a look at that.

    • #3225027

      HO HO HO merry xmas

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      A very Merry Xmas & happy New year!
      ta MIck
      Cheers!!

    • #3288385

      ONE FORUM WONDER…

      by now left tr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      So ‘Ta Mick’ do you know anything about any other subject OTHER than how bad Vista will be?

      You look to be a ONE FORUM WONDER – which means nobody will give a damn what you say or think TBH.

      ONE FORUM – LOL…

      • #3216763

        we could discuss the cricket or soccer??

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to ONE FORUM WONDER…

        perhaps gardening or even sex.Why not??
        ta mick

        • #3216696

          naaa….

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to we could discuss the cricket or soccer??

          that Cricket thing just makes absolutly no sense to me. :^0

        • #3216515
          Avatar photo

          But it’s so much fun watching the Poms loose

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to naaa….

          At the game that they invented. 🙂

          It must feel like [b]The Ashes[/b] in their Mouths. :^0

          Col

        • #3224142

          ashes to ashes it must be really humiliating for them

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to But it’s so much fun watching the Poms loose

          The ashes must be like the holy grail & so valuable.As i said that if you follow it you won’t miss it.
          ta mick

          By the way the Media center is a big concern
          is it will be only available on Vista Home Premium and Ultimate editions.It’s only if you have$$$$.
          The media centre has a lot of shortcomings:
          You can only use two tuners at a time.
          No picture in picture facility.
          No Australian tuner frequencies & no program guide.
          No captions.
          No support for DVB-S.
          Customers are getting half the system.
          ta mick

        • #3224121
          Avatar photo

          Also the Business Enterprise Volume License

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to ashes to ashes it must be really humiliating for them

          Is a little over $200.00 more expensive than XP Pro on the Volume License. So I went with XP Pro and Software Assurance for 50 workstations that I replaced last week. That’s a hell of a lot of money just for a different OS for any business to absorb.

          Col

        • #3224008

          That’s what I see also…

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to Also the Business Enterprise Volume License

          And it’s way too much to spend to even do test runs of your (running) programs. WHich must be done to have a smooth transition from / to, any OS.

        • #3287751

          no Hal that is chicken feed to Michael as he thinks vista is not

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Also the Business Enterprise Volume License

          isn’t that dear,he doesn’t understand what all the fuss is about.As we should all sing vista’s ultimate’s praises & adopt it without question.
          At the moment i’ve just lost my 200 gig harddrive with all it’s contents when i was using vista ultimate.All it was,was one loose connection in the dvd burner & the pc kept booting over & over.Could not recover in any mode or could not activate reapir mode or recovery mode in vista.One hell of a mother CRASH .The only way out was to loose everything & reformat & reinstall.
          ta mick

        • #3287702

          Chicken Feed- I wish and Hal use what’s best for your customers

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Also the Business Enterprise Volume License

          gsaravin- I’m living on social security so I don’t have a lot of money. It may take me a year of more but eventually my other 2 computers will have Vista installed.
          Hal I think you made the right choice on the OS-as Vista is a new OS and needs to be tested for what that orginization needs running.
          XP is an good OS-I just think Vista is better but each person or organization needs to decide for them selves.
          As far as losing your harddrive-you do know as a IT person- that your drive just may have died and it does not matter if the OS had been Win9x-XP or Vista-it probably would have died anyway.
          Mike

        • #3224146

          they treat it like the game for gods

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to naaa….

          Unless you are interested & follow it you will be bored.I suppose being German you must follow soccer.By the way i’m Macedonian by decent.
          ta mick

        • #3224006

          You do know….

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to they treat it like the game for gods

          You left yourself openwith that one….
          …as in a “Macedonian-Nut” by chance? :p
          sorry, I just had to do that.
          a Merry Christmas to ya…-d
          (Frohe Weihnachten)

        • #3223872

          you mean macadamian nut

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to You do know….

          either way i’m a tough nut to crack.
          Hey is your nicname dawgit like doggitt ??
          Merry xmas.
          ta mick

        • #3287750

          wie gehts dawgit

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to You do know….

          i used to study german for five years !
          Gut danke und ihnen!
          How is the uptake of vista in europe or Germany ???
          ta mick

        • #3274046

          re chicken feed i’m not trying to knock you

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to they treat it like the game for gods

          but to say that you responded by saying that the vista upgrade is cheap.A lot of people regard it as dear especially when they got xp why should the ditch it .& if they think their not ready to take up so be it they have a right to do it.Particularly if you are on social security you don’t have money to throw around.That would apply to virtually everyone excluding Bill Gates.
          re Hardrive It was not faulty i reinstalled everything & it works fine.
          It Could have happened with any system but i think it must be the compatibility of the hardware & drivers with the new vista op system.
          ta mick

        • #2528280

          it’s a dud

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to re chicken feed i’m not trying to knock you

          vista is a dud

        • #2528279

          complete failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to re chicken feed i’m not trying to knock you

          yep

        • #2528278

          current sales of vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to complete failure

          recent sales indicate vista is a big flop

    • #3223883

      michael am i wrong ??

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      These are feedback from heap of consumers they are not happy to part for an upgrade to vista.I’ts not just my opinion people are happy with xp for the time being.
      ta mick

      • #3287746

        michael what’s on the xmas wish list & how are you celebrating

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to michael am i wrong ??

        is it in true American fashion or some other.
        or are you an atheist????
        ta mick

        • #3287745

          Latest test poll on vista takeup for 2007 is bleak

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to michael what’s on the xmas wish list & how are you celebrating

          Will you upgrade to Vista in 2007?
          No
          748 68.6%

          Yes
          342 31.4%

          Number of Voters : 1090
          First Vote : Sunday, 03 December 2006 15:29
          Last Vote : Saturday, 09 December 2006 18:22

          ta mick

        • #3287744

          i’ve been vindicated that what i’ve said about vista i’ve been right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Latest test poll on vista takeup for 2007 is bleak

          This quote is from e-week.com
          Vista Breaks Applications .By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols
          November 21, 2006

          Opinion: The big secret at Redmond is that existing applications and new products will not work with Vista.
          Microsoft really doesn’t want you to know this, but many of your existing applications won’t work with Vista. In fact, some brand new products won’t work with Vista.

          At the top of that list of “It doesn’t work,” we find, believe it or not, Microsoft new music player, Zune. Yes, that’s right; Microsoft’s iPod killer doesn’t work with Vista.

          Not only will Zune not work with Vista, it also doesn’t work with all media files that are protected with Windows Media DRM (Digital Rights Management). So much for PlaysForSure!

          Microsoft promises that Zune will eventually work with Vista, but don’t you find it a little scary that the boys from Redmond couldn’t get their number one Christmas toy to work with their number one operating system?

          Moving closer to business, let’s take Microsoft’s recently released scripting system, PowerShell. This scripting language, formerly known as Monad, would have made Vista management much easier … except it doesn’t work on Vista. Server 2003 and XP, yes. Vista, no.
          Now, Microsoft says it will be ready by January 31, 2007. Remember when Monad was going to be in Vista? I do.

          Too techie for you? Then, consider if you will, Windows Live Messenger 8.0 and the beta 8.1. Both IM clients blow up after a few hours of use on Vista.

          Oh, and the new IM client from AOL, AIM 6? I can now attest from personal experience that it goes “boom” too on Vista.

          As someone who lives and works on IM all day every day, I’m not a happy camper. This isn’t super techie stuff. They’re freaking instant message clients. How hard can this be?

          It’s not like say the Cisco VPN client, which I also must have for work, and which doesn’t work with Vista.

          Vista also doesn’t want to work and play well with CheckPoint VPN-1. Still, VPN’s are more complicated. Of course, with business people on the road, support for VPNs, and not just Microsoft’s own, is absolutely critical. Making sure the major VPNs work with Vista should have been a top priority for Microsoft.

          Now, I do understand why some software will no longer run on Vista. 16-bit software, for example, including my ancient but still useful copy of Norton Commander, will no longer be supported.

          That said, I do wonder a bit why many major anti-virus programs, such as AVG Free, Symantec AntiVirus Corporate Edition for Vista, and Kaspersky Anti-Virus & Kaspersky Internet Security 6.0 are all reported to crash and burn.

          Microsoft releases Vista to developers. Click here to read more.

          Could it be because Microsoft wants to cut the security software companies out of their business?

          You should also know that some of Microsoft’s own programs won’t run with Vista. For example, Microsoft’s own Virtual PC 2004 won’t work.

          ta mick

        • #3287743

          Ms is trying to run a trash & burn principle to vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i’ve been vindicated that what i’ve said about vista i’ve been right

          Heres some more programs that won’t work
          Neither will Visual Studio .NET 2002, Visual Studio .NET 2003, and Microsoft SQL Server 2000. Visual Studio 2005 SP1 will work… sort of.

          So, if any of you developers out there are planning on creating.NET 1.1 applications in Vista, forget about it!

          As for games and media programs, good luck! Some won’t work. Some will work, albeit badly, and a few will do just fine.

          One thing for certain though is that if your 2005 or older game uses OpenGL for better 3-D graphics performance, it will not perform well on Vista.

          Here’s the bottom line. Many programs?and not just the ones I mention above?are not going to work with Vista. At least they’re not going to work well with it.

          For now?for the next few quarters?the wise IT manager is not going to move any production systems from XP, or earlier, to Vista. It’s that simple.
          ta mick

        • #3274238

          What secret-I knew about this long before you

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i’ve been vindicated that what i’ve said about vista i’ve been right

          For one thing Vista is not on store shelves yet-by the time it is-Zune will work with Vista.As far as VPN is concerend-major suppliers of this- need to get to work on getting that to work on Vista not MS.
          Yea MS needs to work on some of their programs to get them to work with VIsta-you can bet they are also.
          As far as anti virus there are 2 companies who’s product I would not use if they paid me-Symantic/McAfee, both of which causes more trouble than they are worth- I have used AVG-Avast with Vista and had no problems-what does that tell you-somebody needs to design better products is what it tells me.
          Mike

        • #3274214
          Avatar photo

          Actually this one is a bit of a worry

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to What secret-I knew about this long before you

          The Accounting package for Office 2007 has known compatibility issues with Vista as it runs on M$ SQL 2005 and that’s not Vista Compliant.

          It works perfectly with XP as that’s what I used the other day to demonstrate it to a bunch of accountants but earlier tonight I tried installing in onto one of my Vista Test Rigs and I got that error message. Currently it looks as if the system has hung up as it’s attempting to look on line for some updates to allow the Accounting Package for Office 2007 to install but the CPU’s are running at 100% usage the page file is almost entirely used up but Task Manager insists that the application is running so I’ll leave it running till much latter today and see what it comes up with if anything or even see if there are any changes.

          What I find concerning is he way that M$ touted Office 2007 as totally compliant with Vista and then releases a package that’s will be part of the total Office Suite that isn’t Vista Compatible.

          I just hope this isn’t a sign of things to come.

          Col

        • #3274045

          i ha ve to agree compatibility & stability are pretty high

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Actually this one is a bit of a worry

          on everyone’s agenda.I knew that they were having big problems with office 2007. Ms has rewritten most of the source code & unless most of the eerors have been fixed then there will be compatiblity issues.Youd think they’d get it righton their own software.
          ta mick

        • #3274249

          Poll who took it – who answered the poll and where is the url

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Latest test poll on vista takeup for 2007 is bleak

          As usual you post something with no proof and we are supposed to take it as fact-I don’t think so.
          Mike

        • #2488524

          A closer look at”Latest test poll on vista takeup for 2007 is bleak “

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Latest test poll on vista takeup for 2007 is bleak

          OK that’s 1090 people-lets add four zero’s to that 10,900,000 people.
          That will be 3,420,000 people upgrading to Vista.
          That does not look so bleak to me.Plus this is just a small amount of people you needto ask.
          Mike

        • #2488487

          Oh gsaravin the forcast on pc sales is

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to A closer look at”Latest test poll on vista takeup for 2007 is bleak “

          400 million pc’s this year. Of those 10% or 40 million will be homebuilt and of those 98% will run Vista.
          Mike

        • #2487317

          michael,well in my humble opinion you want to know everything

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to A closer look at”Latest test poll on vista takeup for 2007 is bleak “

          i did say it was bleak,it’s only a forecast
          so michael i’ve given you test results,i’ve given you test results comparing vista to xp & xp wins by a large margin.I’ve given you
          the vista source code at great cost & expense
          & what do i get is ungreatfullness.please what else do you want. You don’t want me to walk starkers do you.Also your cohorts Angst & techmail are not happy with this thread.
          Well this thread is for all to enjoy.It gives me no greater happiness than for all to enjoy this thread & others.Please feel free to comment you don’t have tpo agree.It’s an open invitation to all.Its over to michael come on michael
          you now have the vista source code so enjoy!!!
          ta mick
          ps wheres Hal?????

        • #2487297

          Bleak- that’s not bleak that is about double of XP BUT

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to michael,well in my humble opinion you want to know everything

          as a PH’d you know that is not a big enough sample to give a accurate forcast.
          As far as test results you give what you say are the results of the benchmark but not the actual benchmark program you used so others may check the results.
          you gave what you say is Vista source but even to me it looks like something you made up.
          You say you have tested all the builds but give no build numbers.
          Mike

        • #2487659

          i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Bleak- that’s not bleak that is about double of XP BUT

          well michael i think you need to sit down
          & have a beer,calm down stop worryng yourself over statistics it comes to personal choice you want vista you bloody well can have vista.I want xp because it’s better & faster than vista & offers more compatiblity & stability i stay with xp.
          ta mick

        • #2487660

          i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Bleak- that’s not bleak that is about double of XP BUT

          well michael i think you need to sit down
          & have a beer,calm down stop worryng yourself over statistics it comes to personal choice you want vista you bloody well can have vista.I want xp because it’s better & faster than vista & offers more compatiblity & stability i stay with xp.
          ta mick

        • #2487098
          Avatar photo

          Well I wasn’t going to mention this but

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to michael,well in my humble opinion you want to know everything

          MS has claimed that the BSOD is no more so your source code must be wrong or they have dropped that part from Vista just like so many other features. 😀

          Actually now according to M$ you are supposed to see a [b]Red Screen of Death[/b] and the blue screen will only appear when something really fatal occurs. But I’m the first to admit I don’t fully understand that Logic if you have a Fatal Error Occurring that gives you the RSOD how much worse will a BSOD have to be?

          Col

        • #2487649

          they all mean the same

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well I wasn’t going to mention this but

          fatal crash & how they crash You cannot prevent it.
          ta mick

        • #3287698

          My Xmas wish list

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to michael what’s on the xmas wish list & how are you celebrating

          Well I already have it-Vista Ultimate. As far as celebratting it will be in true american fashion. With my wife of 39+ years-my son and daughter plus my 3 granddaughters.
          On Christmas day we will have a turkey dinner with all the trimmings. No I’m not a atheist -all I have to do is look at my family and I know God is real.
          Mike

          PS Merry Christmas

        • #3274048

          I do beleive that there is god down there somewhere.

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to My Xmas wish list

          they are highly intelligent & made us all.
          I’m heading for the middle of oz during xmas.
          We will drive with a couple of 4 wheel drives with family & friends.
          with camping equipment & food & we’ll celebrate Xmas .With turkey ,bbq,legs of ham,
          seafood etc.A real family celebration.
          ta mick

    • #3274125

      Ha! What a nut bar.

      by cayble ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Your either clearly incompitent, are a bare faced liar or very confused.

      Vista runs like a top with ALL FUNCTIONS on a 18 month old Pentium 2.66 duel core, one GB of 533 ram, an IDE 80GB HD, and an Asus nvidia 6600 video card.

      Where are these clowns coming from that try to claim that Vista needs new top of the line hardware to run? Either they plain do not have a clue or they are purposly spreading FUD.

      • #3274092
        Avatar photo

        I’m impressed I didn’t think that a 2.66 Pentium 4 Supported 64 Bit.

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Ha! What a nut bar.

        😀

        • #2502846

          Hey Hal

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I’m impressed I didn’t think that a 2.66 Pentium 4 Supported 64 Bit.

          could it be that michael is all quiet & he is probably wdup!
          ta mick

        • #2502821

          HEY MICKY MOUSE (RATBAG)

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to Hey Hal

          I’LL SAVE MICHAEL AND HAL THE TROUBLE OF REPLYING BACK TO YOU OK (ASS-HOLE) AND YOU FORGOT THE (CF) AGAIN, IT’S WDUPCF.. AND NOW YOU REALLY BEGINING TO TO PISS ME OFF AND MESS WITH ME, SO NP, GO AHEAD AND PUSH ME YOU DIRTBAG AND THEN YOU’LL FIND SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES FOR YA, YOU HUMAN GARBAGE CAN WITH LEGS.

          HERE’S YOUR FRIST CLUE?..YOU KNOW WHAT A TUNNEL RAM IS.

          UNLIKE YOUR BS Imaginary SOFTHWARE TOOLS

          THIS ONES REAL AND WORKS.

          YOU GOING TO TALK ABOUT SOME ONE, BEHIND THEIR BACK, YOU HUMAN WASTE OF SPACE, AT LEAST GET THE NAME STRAIGHT OK, LIKE I HAVE DONE WITH YOURS, MICKY MOUSE RATBAG, THAT’S YOUR NEW NAME BY THE WAY, SO YOU DONT GET ME CONFUSED WITH MICHAEL OR ANYONE ELSE IN HERE, DUDE, AT ANY LEVEL AND THE ONLY REASON VISTA IS CRAP TO YOU, IS SIMPLE, YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE AND ONE OF THOSE IDIOTS THAT WOULD INTERPRET A PDF FILE AS A DOS COMMAND, WITH YOUR SPECIAL NEEDS SOFTWARE AND TOOLS WHICH IS IN BRAIL. (D-D-B)

          SO GO AHEAD, PUNK, FEELING LUCKY?

          BACK OFF, OR YOU AIN’T SEEN NOTHING YET.

          NOW LET’S SEE HOW SMART OR REALLY STUPID YOU ARE, INTERPRET THIS AS A WARNING SHOT ACROSS YOU BOW AND YOU ON A GARBAGE HAULER.

        • #2502597

          can you just go someplace else as you have gone far enough

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to HEY MICKY MOUSE (RATBAG)

          You insulting language will not be tolerated.You have nothing positive to say except to criticise me go & play somewhere else your not welcome here!!!
          mick

        • #2502594

          given the way you are acting you seem like a

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to can you just go someplace else as you have gone far enough

          retarded person or something & you sound that you are not a ligit person.You have just joined tech republic & your hell bent on insulting me.We’ll as i said you are not welcome here.Go away to another thread or forum!!!
          ta ta mick

        • #2502562

          TO MICKY MOUSE (RATBAG) GAME OVER

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to can you just go someplace else as you have gone far enough

          YEP, GAVE YOU A WARNING, LOTS OF THEM TOO, TO BACK OFF, TO BE SMART OR STUPID… BUT NOPE, NOT YOU, NO COMPREHEN DAY THE ENGLISH.

          HAD TOO KEEP TELLING EVERY ONE WHAT YOU HAVE AND WHAT YOU WERE YOU DOING WITH IT TOO.

          ILLEGALY TOO, BY THE WAY I MIGHT ADD.

          NO 2 WAYS ABOUT IT..MICKY MOUSE.

          YOU ARE ONE DUMASS, STUPID MORON, AT ALL LEVELS.

          THAT’S WHY I NAMED YOU MICKEY MOUSE.

          I’LL BE HERE, TO SEE THIS THROUGH. UNTILL YOU LEAVE….WHICH SHOULD BE PRETTY SOON, SINCE I, EXSUSE THE REFERNCE, HAVE BEEN (compiling) TOO, ALL OF YOUR POSTS ABOUT YOU CLAMING TOO HAVING THE VISTA SOURCE CODE.

          I ASSUME ARE HACKING IT ALSO, NOT TESTING IT BY THE WAY YOU TALK AND NOT A VERY GOOD WAY TO GO AROUND IN A FORUM TO IMPRESS PEOPLE WITH. so you can get all of the attention, you crave, well you got that part done, congrat’s.

          TESTING IS WHEN YOU HAVE PERMISSION FROM MICROSOFT, AND NOT WITH THEIR SOURCE CODE EITHER OUTSIDE MICROSOFT, BIG DIFFERANCE.

          OH YA, BY THE WAY SINCE I’M A REAL TECHNET AND MSDN MEMEBER, FOR MICROSOFT. WELL I’M SURE OUR GROUP, WILL BE MORE THAN INTERESTED IN YOU AND HOW YOU GOT A HOLD OF THIS, THE SOURCE CODE, ALL YOUR CLAIMS AND THE TOOLS TO INFRINGE AND AGAIN HACK, NOT TEST THIS SOURCE CODE SOFWARE,OK MICK ,GOOD LUCK,

          UNLESS OF COURSE, YOUR ON THEIR SYSTEMS DATA BASE AS A EMPLOEE AND TESTER OF MICROSOFT, WHICH YOUR NOT AND NOT ON THE OUTSIDE OF MICROSOFT WITH THE SOURCE CODE DOING THEM A FAVOR, TELLING THEM THEIR $7 BILLION INVESTMENT IS CRAP ACCORDING TOO YOU WITH SOMETHING YOU NOT SUPPOSE TO HAVE TO BEGIN WITH.

          GET IT.?

          I’M ALSO SURE ONCE THEY GO OVER THIS, THEY WILL BE IN TOUCH WITH TECHREPUBLIC TOO AND THEN YOU. IT WONT BE HARD, MICK, IT’S THE INFORMATION WORLD, RIGHT MICK, AND IT’S ALL RIGHT HERE….ALL THE RECORDS.

          LOG ON LOG OFF, LOG ON LOG OFF, IP’ THE REAL IP ADDRESSES, BEHIDE THE ROUTERS, DONT MATTER. UDP’S TCP’S…. KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

          SO IF I WAS YOU, I’D BE THINKING ABOUT AT GETTING OUT OF HERE REAL QUICK AND MAYBE, CLEAN UP YOUR ROOM, WHICH I WAS REALLY HOPING YOU’D PICKED UP ON AND CLUED INTO BUT DIDN’T.

          SEE WHAT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE WHO BS AND OR LIE AND INFRINGE AND MAKE CLAIMS AND MOUTH OFF.

          YOU CANT SAY I DID’NT WARN YOU.

          WELCOME TO THE REAL INFORMATION WORLD MICK.

          MIGHT CONSIDER TAKING UP GAMING INSTEAD, OK

          GAME OVER ANYWAYS.

          TA TA

          CONSIDER YOURSELF TUNNEL RAMED

    • #2502438

      I agree with you gsaravin

      by defuse3388 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Yes I agree with you on the fact that Vista is nothing but a crap.Even if it is not it has nothing to do with the common man who has trusted MS and there are millions and millions of users who don’t have enough money to upgrade to Vista.Here’s the link of the detail article that I have written.
      http://blog.eukhost.com/2006/12/04/are-you-thinking-of-windows-vista/

      • #2502435

        No Dice

        by now left tr ·

        In reply to I agree with you gsaravin

        Checked and you (defuse) are gsaravin!!

        • #2502429

          Tech Mail that’s not true defuse is from Durham GB

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to No Dice

          gsaravin is from sydney australia.A good many people are now realising what i have been saying about vista & are coming to their senses.So tech mail where is your evidence. gsaravin is from sydney,nsw australia nice try !
          ta mick

        • #2502424

          to wdup you are bloody disgrace please stay out of these

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Tech Mail that’s not true defuse is from Durham GB

          discussions as you are just plain insulting & you say crap things that aren’t true.I’d call you a turkey but that’s too good for you.Why don’t you go over to the Mac camp discuusion board.
          in other words get lost we are sick of your drivel insulting people & their intelligence.
          ta mick

        • #2502296

          TO MICKY MOUTH

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to to wdup you are bloody disgrace please stay out of these

          IT’S the other way around PIN HEAD and most who have a clue in here and have dealt with jerks like you in the past, also know what your are all about too, A WANA BE, A JOKE.

          Were do you get off on thinking this is your forum and you can say anything that comes out of your mouth to any one and speak for all in here, you can’t, just proves again not only are you an idiot to the 5th degree, your a liar too and make this stuff up and spit it out.

          Well guess what, I was going to leave, take care of My Dad since he has cancer now and since your also to stupid to let sleeping dogs lay, I’ll tell you what Goof, I have the Resolve to do both.

          So, in other words Micky Mouth, everytime you spit out garbage or mislead people with your cut and paste crap in order to set them up, so you can nail them later, which is your way insulting people & their intelligence AND MINE, I’ll be here to remind you.

          Since you also think people in here are easy targets for you to play with at your leasure and abuse with your dribble and you think you can play with me, then I’ll play with you, NP

          PS. Who in here made you Chief cook and bottle washer, no one, it’s all in your head and I hear nothing but echo. Knock knock…see echo.

          Your biggest problem is you have yourself Believing your own BS and Expect and demand others in here belive you too.

          Well guess what, not happening with me Bucko and as you once said to some one here and now I say too…PISS OFF…… JERK.

          You want too mess with a bull, exspect to get the Horns

        • #2502169

          i thought it was micky mouse not mouth

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to TO MICKY MOUTH

          unless you have something interesting to say you should say it you just get all personal.Can we just stick to vista i think it’s crap.Why blah blah evidence conclussion.Why get personally uptight when it’s all beyond your control.I’m not saying that i’m right & everyone is wrong.Everyone has a right to be heard & to express themselves it’s in the constitution.
          So before we get all personal why don’t we
          just talk about the topic at hand if i’m wrong i’ll eat humble pie or crow.
          We don’t even know each other & we get uptight over ms or vista who rakein billions.
          I’monly saying that if you just acted more professionally we couldall take a leaf & say
          hey even if we don’t agree with him he made his point.
          Sorry to hear that you have someone with cancer go out & look after them.
          Ta mick

        • #2502103

          TO MICKEY MOUSE MOUTH , HOW ABOUT THAT. LOL

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to i thought it was micky mouse not mouth

          FRIST OFF, THAT SOMEONE IS MY DAD, MISTER. NOT A SOMEONE OR THEM, HAD YOU Actually been able to Absorb most OF OR ANY PART OF WHAT YOU READ, IN MY REPLY BACK TO HAL, INSTEAD OF CUT AND PASTE WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE TOO, IT SEEMS, YOU WOULD OF REMEMBERED THAT.

          PLUS AND YOUR ABOUT AS SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT THAT AS I’M, ABOUT FINDING OUT TOMORROW YOU DONT COME HERE NO MORE, BECAUSE YOU GOT RUN OVER BY A KAGAROO OR HIT BY A FLYING ****
          LOL.

          HEY? MAYBE MICROSOFT SHOULD CHECK INTO THAT.

          NEWS FLASH..MICROSOFT PROGRAMS KAGAROO WITH VISTA TO RUN OVER MICKS VISTA BASHING MOUTH, ONCE AND FOR ALL, KAGAROO COLLAPES AT SCENE AND DIES, FOUND OUT IT WAS FULL OF CRAP. ALL CHARGES DROP.
          MORE NEWS AT 11:00…LOL

          UNDERSTAND TOO, IN MY REPLY BACK TO HAL9000 LIKE EVERYTHING YOU READ IN HERE, WHEN SOME ONE REPLYS BACK TO YOU WITH THERE OPINIONS, IT’S FINE AS LONG AS THEY AGREE WITH YOU, IT’S FINE, BECAUSE IT’S ALL ABOUT YOU AND ONLY YOU IN HERE, AND IT’S ALL READY PERSONAL WITH OTHERS IN HERE MICK FROM WHAT I HAD READ, WAY BEFORE, MY FRIST POST TOO YOU AND THEY OR MOST IN HERE DONT LIKE YOU EITHER FROM WHAT I READ TOO, GEEEEZ I WONDER WHY, AND NOW WE CAN ALL GO **** OURSELFS TOO…LOL…COOL

          SO LET’S DO THE MATH HERE SHALL WE?

          WE ALL GO **** OURSELFS OUT OF HERE NOW, BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT MICKY WANTS, WHICH MEANS HE’D BE THE ONLY ONE LEFT IN HERE, WHICH MEANS MICK JUST ****HIMSELF TOO. GOOD ONE MICK…LOL YOU ON A ROLL MATE, KEEP GOING. THEN MAYBE YOU CAN REALLY ADD NAMES TO THIS FORUM AND START TALKING TO YOURSELF AND THIS WAY YOU CAN ALWAYS AGREE WITH YOU TOO.LOL
          SO WHO’S THE BLOODY DISGRACE NOW.

          HEY..YOU NOT PICK UP ON ANYTHING OR ANYONE TRYING TO TELL YOU IN HERE LATLEY, BEFORE I SHOWED UP, A LOT DONT LIKE YOU, I READ ALL OF YOUR POSTS AND HELL, I DONT LIKE YOU EITHER AND I JUST GOT HERE.

          YOUR A RAVEN, FIND THE tinyest LEAST BIT OF CUT AND PASTE BS ON VISTA, MISLEADING OR OTHERWISE, AND MAKE IT SOUND LIKE MS IS GOING TOO GO OUT OF BUSNIESS, BECAUSE VISTA WONT MAKE THE CUT BECAUSE YOU SAID SO…IT’S WHAT YOU BELIVE, NOT MOST WHO KNOW BETTER AND HAVE A HIGHER IQ THAN POLLY WANT A CRACKER…BRAAAA VISTA IS CRAP, VISTA IS CRAP BRAAA I’M RIGHT YOUR WRONG BRAAA..LOL AND JUST TO PROMOTE YOUR SELF SO YOU CAN BE HEAR OVER OTHERS., QUOTE FROM YOU…

          Everyone has a right to be heard & to express themselves it’s in the constitution.

          constitution.??????…LOL YOU LOSING IT OR WHAT?.
          OR HOW ABOUT THIS.

          Everyone has a right to be heard AS LONG AS IT’S ME MICK & to express themselves UNTILL I TELL EVERYONE THERE IDIOTS AND TOO GO **** THEMSELFS, THIS IS THE constitution, OF TA MICK.

          IS THIS WHY, WE CAN ALL GO ****OURSELFS TOO NOW, BECAUSE IT’S IN YOUR, constitution.?

          YOUR A MS BASHER HATING NOOB, MICK WHO ALSO RUNS WINDOWS AT HOME ANYWAYS,GETS THERE UPDATES, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, WHICH MAKES YOU A (hypicrite)

          ARE YOU THAT STUPID TO NOT REALIZE THAT YOUR IN A VISTA FORUM AND NOT A MAC FORUM, LIKE DAAAAAAAAAAAA, HELL I’LL HAVE MY COMPANY EVEN FLY YOU OVER TO THE MAC CAMP IF NEED BE,THEY WOULD LOVE TO HAVE SOME ONE LIKE YOU AND YOUR NATURE IN THERE AND THEY WOULD MOST LIKEY MAKE YOU THERE KING TOO, THINK ABOUT IT FOR A SECOND. KING MICK MAC LORD OF THE MOUTH..LOL AND THEN LATER, MAYBE THERE GOD…LOL

          THEN YOU WEAR THEM OUT WITH YOU BS AND THEN YOU CAN TELL THEM ALL TO GO ****THEMSELFS TOO
          LIKE YOU JUST DID WITH EVERYONE ELSE IN HERE WITH THERE RIGHT TO EXSPRESS THERE OPIION AND THERE constitution.??????…LOL

          ALSO PART OF YOUR REPLY BACK TOO TO ME.

          We don’t even know each other & we get uptight over ms or vista who rakein billions.

          FRIST OFF, VISTA NOT RANKING BILLIONS YET SO YOU ALREADY AND AGAIN MISINFORMING ME, NICE TRY THOUGH.

          SOUNDS LIKE YOUR THE ONE WHO’S UP TIGHT IN HERE MICK, IS IT BECAUSE MS AND NOT VISTA, YET, MAKE BILLIONS AND YOU DONT WITH WHAT YOU SAY IS CRAP CRAP CRAP AND THAT’S WHY YOUR REALLY PISSED OFF AND WONDER HOW’S IT’S ALL POSSIBLE TO DO THIS, EASY MICK, THEY CONTROLL 90% OF THE OS WORLD MARKET WITH CRAP THAT DONT WORK AND WE BUY IT RIGHT MICK..AND THEY A WAY LOT SMARTER THAN YOU MICK….DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU MATE, BUT ALL THE ONES I BULID AND HAVE WORK FINE THKS, NOT ONE COME BACK IN 5 YRS AND I PLAN TO KEEP IT THAT WAY..I GOT 2 SECRETS AND I BUILD WITH 2000/XP AND YES EVEN NOW WITH VISTA ON THEM, YOU KNOW WHY MICK, HERES secret, NUMBER 1.

          BECAUSE I’M A GAMING HARDWARE AND OS Specialist AND YOUR NOT, YOUR A PROGRAMER.

          SO PLEASE GRAB THE 7 BILLION YOU GOT FROM YOUR LAWSUITE AGAINST THE KAGAROO THAT RAN YOU OVER AND PROGRAM YOUR OWN OS TO RUN MS OUT OF TOWN OK, MAYBE THAT’S ANOTHER REASON THEY RULE…NO ONES HAS THE MONEY TO TAKE THEM ON AND NEVER WILL DAAAAAAAAA, MAC’S WILL ONE DAY END UP IN A MUSEUM,AND YOU AND ALL THE LINX PEOPLE WILL STILL TALK THE TALK, BUT CANT WALK THE WALK, YOU THINK MS IS WORRIED, ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE YOU..LOL THAT’S BS TALK LIKE THE MAC comercials AND LIKE WHAT YOU DO IN HERE.

          HERE’S SOME TIPS DESPITE YOURSELF TO MAKE YOU MS CRAP RUN BETTER.

          USE INTEL CPU’S WITH A INTEL CHIPSETS, THEY LOVE TOO TALK TO EACH OTHER BECAUSE THEY FAMILY, NOT Tiwaness LIKE VIA AND SIS..LOL

          AMD ONLY WITH THERE NEW CHIPSETS NOW

          USE ATI VIDEO CARDS, NOT NVIDA

          STAY AWAY FROM ANYTHING WITH A SIS OR A VIA
          CHIPSET IN IT, THIRD PARTY GARBAGE.

          SUPER SERCERT NUMBER 2, HARDWARE…GET A TOP OF THE LINE POWER SUPPLY MIN, 420 WATT NO LESS FOR SMALL RIGS 560 FOR MID AND UP THE MORE THE BETTER, TO RUN ALL THIS HARDWARE,

          THE RIGS I BUILD USE 600 TO 780 WATTS AND NOTHING LESS, COMES IN HANDY WHEN RUNNING CROSSFIRES SO THE SYSTEM DONT START CHOKING OFF THE OS.. LOOKING FOR MORE JUICE.

          AND FOR GODS SAKE GET RID OF NORTON AND MACAFEE..NIGHMARE GARBAGE JOKE SOFTWARE.

          THERES A VIRUS BORN EVERY 5 MINS AND SO IS A SUCKER BUYING THIS JUNK…THEY WORSE THAN MICROSOFT COULD EVER BE…FOR GODS SAKE..YOU WANT TO **** UP COMPUTER QUICK, GET A FREE ROOTKIT TOO BOOT AND LANCH VIRUS INTO YOU SYSTEM WITHOUT DETECTION AND BY NORTON THEMSELF WITH THEIR LIVE UPDATES, HAVE YOU SYSTEM RUN LIKE IT’S IN SLOW MOTION AND GET THE OS TO GO NUTS AFTER,

          THAN LINE RIGHT UP. THERE’S A MR. NORTON IN A BOX FOR $89 WITH THE WORKS, THAT WILL BEAT THE CRAP INTO YOUR SYSTEM AND PRETEND IT’S TAKING IT OUT.. WELL, PRO’S USE AND CORPS USE IT SO IT MUST BE GOOD…YAAAAAAAAA THEY DO, THAT’S WHY THERE’S A SUCKER BORN EVERY MIN ALSO.

          ANYONE OF MY CUSTOMERS PUT’S THAT GARBAGE ON THEIR SYSTEM, VOIDS THERE warrenty WITH MY COMPANY AND I CAN TELL YOU, NO ONES HAS EITHER…JUST USE AVG AND WIDOWS FIREWALL FOLLOW MY 4 RULES AND GUESS WHAT, NO VIRUSES, BREAK THE RULE GET A VIRUS, DEAL WITH IT.

        • #2502170

          i thought it was micky mouse not mouth

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to TO MICKY MOUTH

          unless you have something interesting to say you should say it you just get all personal.Can we just stick to vista i think it’s crap.Why blah blah evidence conclussion.Why get personally uptight when it’s all beyond your control.I’m not saying that i’m right & everyone is wrong.Everyone has a right to be heard & to express themselves it’s in the constitution.
          So before we get all personal why don’t we
          just talk about the topic at hand if i’m wrong i’ll eat humble pie or crow.
          We don’t even know each other & we get uptight over ms or vista who rakein billions.
          I’monly saying that if you just acted more professionally we couldall take a leaf & say
          hey even if we don’t agree with him he made his point.
          Sorry to hear that you have someone with cancer go out & look after them.
          Ta mick

        • #2502743

          My Proof

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Tech Mail that’s not true defuse is from Durham GB

          Where is defuse now?
          All he has posted lies in is this thread.

          Account created just for the postings…

          Suddenly , after this post he will come back and post 1 or 2 other comments elsewhere.

          That or just dissapear – he is you.

        • #2502295

          I am curious

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to No Dice

          Just for the sake of truth—how can anyone be positive that defuse is gsaravin? What proof do you offer to substantiate such a claim? I am not saying you are wrong but being in the legal field, I usually accept proof as opposed to an opinion. Unfortunately just a statement as above does not proof make. Can you help us out here?

        • #2502100

          DEfuse is from durham gb & gsaravin is from sydney australia

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I am curious

          I’m fed up having to spoon feed idiots like michael who doesn’t get it that vista is a total crap,he can’t put two & two together!.
          He thinks i’m totally false & i’ve taken the trouble to cut & paste articles proving my stories.I don’t give a flying fuck if anyone beleives me or not.I have done testing previously & stated my testing methology *& software used confirming testing on source code etall Vista as a piece of crap.
          So i’ve done my bit i don’t care if you all go to hell.Theres only one decent person left at tech republic & that’s Hal 9000.
          The rest of you can’t think for yourseleves.
          You are all bunch of ratbags!
          Mick tata

        • #2502091

          TO MICKEY GO TO WHERE? AND A FYING WHAT?

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to DEfuse is from durham gb & gsaravin is from sydney australia

          HEY MICKY MOUSE MOUTH, DIDNT KNOW A **** COULD FLY, ONLY IN ASSIE EH? MATE…QUICK DUCK,HERE COMES ONE NOW…LOL

          CAN WE AT LEAST GO ****OURSELFS FRIST BEFORE WE ALL GO TO HELL, BE NICE TO GET ONE LAST ONE IN BEFORE WE ALL GO, ANY WOMEN IN HERE? GOING FOR THE TRIP? SPEAK UP LAST CALL..LOL AND THE RAT BAG?, WAS THAT FOR HER OR FOR US AND OUR BELONGINGS.

          HEY HAL LOOKS LIKE MICKY’S GOING TO BE YOUR NEW BEST FREIND, SURE YOU DONT WHAT TO COME WITH US TOO HAL, MIGHT BE BETTER THAN HAVING TO LISTEN TO HIM FULL TIME ,FULL TIME ..LOL
          LIKE A INTEL DUO 2. ONLY YOU’LL BE HEARING TWICE THE GARBAGE COMING OUT NOW..LOL

        • #2502034
          Avatar photo

          Well I was going to leave your inaccurate post above alone

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to TO MICKEY GO TO WHERE? AND A FYING WHAT?

          But as you are unable to let sleeping dogs lie here are a few facts for you.

          I bought a 5 Site License of Visa Ultimate a couple of weeks ago so I now have the Production Product running on some Test Machines.

          On the Pentium Extrema a Dual Core with Threading 2 CPU’s are recognised by Vista Ultimate.

          On the Dual Xeon 3 GIG Workstation that I’m typing this on again 2 CPU’s are recognised so I’m presuming that either one core of each Xeon is working or only one Xeon is actually running under Vista. They are both Dual Core CPU’s in this case just in case you are unfamiliar with the Business Products.

          If you want a [b]Play Toy[/b] Windows is Brilliant and works a treat but for real work where people other than games makers do something and that’s the majority of us Vista is a Pile of Rubbish not worth the extra $200.00 over the Volume License Cost of XP Pro.

          Office 2007 doesn’t run quite right on Vista but it’s still a Beta copy as the Production Volume License isn’t available here yet well at least 2 weeks ago it wasn’t. Provided that you don’t install the Accounting Package Office works OK but when you have a piece of Office for the Business environment not working because SQL 2005 isn’t compatible with Vista you have a problem.

          If all you want is a play Toy to waste your time & Effort on Windows is Brilliant though it still is incapable of running a Dual Core CPU with Threading and it’s incapable of running 2 Dual Core CPU’s as well so your argument that it can support multi cores of whatever size is blown out the Window.

          However you are correct that it will support 2 Cores or even 2 CPU with Single Cores but then again so did the latter versions of NT so what’s the big deal here?

          As for the Mac’s while they are personally not my preferred Cup of Tea I do see many of them in use by Graphic Artists people who use their computers to actually make money and not while away the hours playing games and wasting enormous amounts of time. But why are you comparing Windows to BSD? They are hardly similar or even in the same class though BSD has a proven great track record in the Security Stakes where as Windows like all of M$ previous products are still Abysmal in terms of security. Vista still allows the User Profile on the same partition as the Kernel so there is a bulk amount of possible available insertion points that are yet to be found. While it’s probably better than previous versions of Windows I still wouldn’t do as Balmer says and allow a 7 year old unsupervised access to the computer connected to the Internet, there are way too many WACKO’s out there for the safety of the children of this world.

          If this is anything to go by I once saw a Politician extolling the virtues of DDT and to show just how safe it was he drank a cup of the poison so because someone is silly enough to believe what they are saying by no means makes it right and I’ve yet to find any Computer Platform that I would allow a child unsupervised access to the Net from.

          But you’re free to allow your children to follow in Balmers footsteps I just hope you get to keep them undamaged.

          But when you look at a particular Peer here you get some interesting facts like who has joined when and what contributions to the Site that they have made like this one here

          http://tinyurl.com/y9ssvn

          Seems that this person is targeting just one discussion and has not been an active participant of the site since they joined in November 2006. Could that be because this is a newly created alias to Flame one person and not to be a real member of TR? Or are they just working for the M$ Marketing Department to push out the FUD to confuse the masses as per usual M$ Marketing Rubbish?

          I’ll leave that to others to judge. As this person counts me as a Contact it must be me doing all of this Flaming. If only I had the time to waste of trivialities like this and more importantly I would be much happier if my father was still alive and had not have died in 1987 at age 83 of old age.

          Col

        • #2501978

          when i see some people are just trying to stir up

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well I was going to leave your inaccurate post above alone

          trouble& i know that ms is trying to discredit me in other posts like zdnet& other forums i wouldn’t be surprised of what the real motives are.Personally i don’t care but i do care that some people are doubting thomases & are trying to question my personality of who i am & that makes me very angry.I’m pissed off with them.I have been living in Oz for over 40 years & am a proud auzzie & no one can take that away from me by saying i’m not!!!a pom or yank i’m not!!!
          Definitely right about all youv’e said Hal.
          ta mick

        • #2501974

          I have to agree that parents are very important in life

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well I was going to leave your inaccurate post above alone

          The thing is once they are gone you don’t have anyone to replace them & It’s not the same,they are irreplaceable.My dad is 78 & still believes in working.Whilst my mum passed away in 1993.I fully agree if we had alternatives we would’nt be wasting our time here.
          ta mick

        • #2501837

          TO HAL…THKS Revised

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to Well I was going to leave your inaccurate post above alone

          Thks hal9000 for your Condolences, as I write this too you, My Dad is in getting a second biopcey done on his Liver, to see what stage it’s at and how fast it’s spreading.

          Guess I’ll have to wait for more info and just maybe it’s the same, wishfill thinking I suppose, dont know how much more they can poke around in there with him since he’s weak after just getting over pneumonia a month ago and now this.

          The only thing I had a laugh at was Micks little temper fit and then just comes right back in as if nothing happen. I dont take Meds of course, but man, I’d be more than happy to send him some over…lol and SR thought I was rude…please…lol

          I’m sorry you look apond gaming as a wase of time, most IT people do, that’s why they hang out in forums..lol but never the less there a lot of Benefits too, like keeping kids off the streets that would other wise and most likely be doing some thing else not so great,

          teaches team base co-operation, unlike what going on in this forum and this with Adults..lol, so there’s one bonus right there you cann’t get from HERE.

          Keeps the brain sharpe too, great for memory recall, MICKY MOUSE, should take up gaming since his memeory not so good, that why he repeats himself all the time..lol

          Over here, we also use it in old folks home now for memory and motor skills improvments,

          MICKY MOUSE, should take up gaming since his memory not so good, that why he repeats himself all the time..lol

          See what I mean..lol

          It’s a $8 Billion a year market and still growing with no end in site, employs Millions of people world wide and ya the media loves to promote the bad part of it, because that’s there job, to make the ratings to make the money because people in general like to here bad news so they can yap about it later. good news is boring. right, ask Mickey Mouse…lol

          Chess, a Great game too, no one playS this here, in my family, except me, but I can go on line and find anyone. Everything for a reason.

          I’m also writing back hal9000 on a few things ok.

          1. My post to you is not inaccurate hal9000 and no insult here towards you, it’s because and look like you dont understand the relationship, between the Physical CPU unit it self it’s role in the Motherboard and it’s core in a, single or muili-core SMP Environment and it’s hard limit factor to the OS and the socket lic that go’s along with it and is Interpreted by the industry, from what I can gather by your reply back to me.

          For you I will exsplain as best I can with what I know, facts, not fiction and have worked with too. it’s not easy and so much more to this, you can dam near write a book on it alone. which I’m not going to do here.. so hal9000 your not going to get the works here, ok way too much info for me to exsplain it all too you.. but here it goes as best I can in a very very short version and remember will take XP FOR EXCAMPLE… XP is limited to 2 CPU processors.

          1.From windows NT 3.1 to XP. Windows has a hard limit of 32 logical cores (on 32-bit processors; 64 logical cores on 64-bit processors) which you can actually hit if you have on an 8-socket 2 riser card mother board box being populated with dual-core, hyperthreaded processors, so there you go hal9000, now you have 64 cores on one Motherboard running on XP PRO topped out max. The limit is simply so that a single variable can be used with the Interlocked instructions to note which processors are free or busy. K

          Why dont every one have these…easy, they cost a whole S-H-I-T load of bucks and that’s just for one.

          So it’s no surprise either hal9000 to the ones who know too that even XP Home edtion supports multiple cores on the single socket too by the way.

          An XP Pro machine with two hyperthreaded dual-core processors shows up as and with the NUMBER_OF_PROCESSORS=8, when looking at the ‘Performance’ tab in the task manager.

          A quad-core hal is still a single proc too with 4 cores and if you can get a hold of one installed XP on a dual-quadcore Xeon test box. All 8 cores show up in the Task Manager performance view.

          XP Pro is limited to 2 CPU’s with a top end of 64 cores when pushed to the limit hal.

          Frist check your systems bios on the motherboard and see if things are in order, then go for a update if one is there, then go to your task manager to see what shows up there..the board has to have the ablitly to do this too or it wont show up at the other end of course.

          Now, with Vista like I said, now you can throw any number of cores at it and it will take it, because they got rid of the hard limiting part of this, that was was in the others.

          So, hal9000 when you really think about it, for the frist time from Windows, were trading in our desktop OS system for a desktop muily-core mini server. that’s What Vista is all about really short of speak cool eh?. I know a bit about this at your end when it comes to and on busniess machines too, motherboards are motherboards hal9000, but like I said, my end is gaming, much more chanleging to get these puppies running ,then working on servers any day of the week …and if you cam make a gaming rig run just about perfect, then you can make any 2d system run too. and that’s even easier.

          For the record I hate Dell and IBM computers

          But here’s the specs on the new Dell

          Precision 390 WORK STATION WHICH is a tower work station by the way and supports Intel Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Extreme quad-core and dual-core processors, and Pentium 4 single-core processors.

          Quad-Core Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 (2.66GHz, 1066 FSB, 8MB L2 Cache)

          Dual-Core Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 (2.93GHz, 1066MHz FSB, 4MB L2 Cache)

          Dual-Core Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 (2.66GHz, 1066 FSB, 4MB L2 Cache)

          Dual-Core Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.40GHz, 1066 FSB, 4MB L2 Cache)

          Dual-Core Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 (2.13GHz, 1066 FSB, 2MB L2 Cache)

          Dual-Core Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 (1.86GHz, 1066 FSB, 2MB L2 Cache)

          Single-Core Intel Pentium 4 631 (3.0GHz, 800 FSB, 2MB L2 Cache) and runs on Vista too.

          Hope this helps you out a bit hal9000, gtg now and check on My DAD, then I’ll go gaming for a bit of fun, I’m 50 and it keeps me young.

          take care hal9000

      • #2502433

        I have checked your comments & i have to agree

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to I agree with you gsaravin

        totally with you that we are all taken for the proverbial ride.If people examine what has happened at ms & what ms has really done to vista they will see they are hardly getting anything for their money.
        ta mick

        • #2502354

          Of course you’d agree with yourself

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to I have checked your comments & i have to agree

          Because most of the people in this forum disagrees with you or do not believe your pronouncements as fact. You had to make up somebody who agrees totallly with you.
          Mike

        • #2502174

          well michael you can all go & get F cked

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Of course you’d agree with yourself

          That’s a lie & you know it how can I be Durham england when i’mliving in sydney.
          I’m not going to give in to you people you are plain stupid or for crying out loud
          so dumb you can’t see the damn truth.
          If you think i’m this other person Im not.
          You can beleive what you want to beleive.
          Ta mick

        • #2502747

          How???

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to well michael you can all go & get F cked

          You just make it up, that’s how…

      • #2502116

        they think that i’m you & they say that i posted the comments

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to I agree with you gsaravin

        to make it look like someone is at least agreeing with me.
        ta mick

      • #2502113

        just because i’m listed as a contact doesn’t mean i’m the person

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to I agree with you gsaravin

        only someone like michael would do such a thing & say that i would stoop that low.That is a pretty mean thing especially when i have been bought up on christian values!
        ta Mick

      • #2501986

        The question still stands

        by ang2006 ·

        In reply to I agree with you gsaravin

        —–Just for the sake of truth—how can anyone be positive that defuse is gsaravin? What proof do you offer to substantiate such a claim? I am not saying you are wrong but being in the legal field, I usually accept proof as opposed to an opinion. Unfortunately just a statement as above does not proof make. Can you help us out here?—-the question still stands and at this juncture gsaravin did not even need to respond but he did…..I have yet to see the response I asked for to settle whether the statements are libelous or not.
        Now I have followed this entire discussion since it started and while it is certain that gsaravin is definitly not a Vista fan, he has, which a court would approve of, offered as it were expert judgments on the problems with Vista. Sorry guys, on a web site this can only be done with copy and paste as well as links. Now on the Vista fans side—-you too have done much the same also….All I see is people who have decided on a PERSONAL OPINION based on their personal experiences coupled with what they have read. This in itself does not make anyone right or wrong—just means they have experienced 2 opposite extremes. Actually my position on buying Vista still stands and has not changed but all have made excellent points in the whole discussion—all I ask is stick to FACTS please and not libelous statements which cannot be backed up.
        And I must say, the shouting childishness on here (you know who you are) has convinced me of nothing except someone needs a time out. “The weaker your argument, the stronger your words.”

        • #2501964

          you know freedom of choice is the answer you are’nt forced

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to The question still stands

          to accept any argument in life it is up to you to choose.definetly someone needs to chill out or as the americans say take a powder.I’m not forcing anyone to adopt a view it’s up to them.Also i don’t get upset if they disagree with me.I know for a fact that ms & others are out in force to discredit me & have threatened me personally.
          Hey what the hell it’s a free country(world)
          Also i have stated what’s only obvious & i’m not against ms in any shape or form as many of my ms contact colleauges will attest.
          If ms got their act together in the first place i would not be saying anything except praising vista. But i have tested it & i’m sorry it is a piece of crap.there i go apologising for other people’s mistake.
          I do know they are out to get me but i won’t rest until i see the truth to be outed.
          What i’m saying is also backed up with quotes & research.
          To those people who think that i’m arrogant & in infallible sorry to say it but i’m not.I could be wrong like the next guy but i will defend your right to say it!!
          ta mick

        • #2502811

          Actually gsaravin

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to you know freedom of choice is the answer you are’nt forced

          this statement hardly covers what comes to mind, you are too gracious here: definetly someone needs to chill out or as the americans say take a powder. I am from the southern US and as we might say, “someone needs to chill BEFORE they have a can of whup-ass opened on them.

          It is beginning to get ridiculous, all this ranting and raving–take a valium if one needs too and you are of age. If not try a time out.

        • #2501961

          I n regards to vista evidence well Jim Allchin has been caught out

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to The question still stands

          yet again but he denies it!
          taken from webpronews.com
          Allchin’s PCs Vs. Macs Rant Thomas Hawk
          Expert Author
          Published: 2006-12-13

          WebProNews RSS Feed

          Jim AllchinWindows Vista Team Blog : Setting The Record Straight. Jim Allchin responds over on his blog regarding a recent news report quoting him as saying that he would have bought a Mac if he weren’t working for Microsoft in an email to Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates.

          The email surfaced as part of an ongoing trial between the State of Iowa and Microsoft, one of the last remaining state anti-trust trials that Microsoft is defending. Allchin says that the email was taken out of context and that he was being purposely dramatic in order to drive home a point.

          Recently after 15 years of using PCs I switched to a Mac. My decision to switch and the articulation behind my switch got a lot of attention, ending up on dozens of blogs and even ending up on Apple’s main home page.

          So far I’ve only been on a Mac for about a month now but I will say that the difference between Macs and my old Dell laptop running Windows XP is like night and day. There is simply no comparison as to how superior a machine the Mac is to my old Dell. And I think this is at heart what Allchin was talking about. Macs just work. PCs running Windows don’t work. They are broken in very fundamental ways. Allchin reportedly in his email said that Microsoft had “lost sight” of customer’s needs.

          This said, Macs are not faultless. My friend Kristopher Tate recently had to send his in for repair and my friend Tantek Celik has pointed out problems that he’s had with his Mac in the past. But despite these problems, overall, in general, they just work. They are a tool and because the tool works better, that makes me a more productive blogger, photographer, father (yes, getting things done faster on the Mac leaves more time for the family), and CEO.

          I believe despite Allchin’s claim that his statement that he would buy a Mac were he not a Microsoft employee was for dramatic effect, that there is probably some truth in what he was saying.

          So the challenge for Microsoft, and in some ways to an even larger extent Allchin himself personally, is to ship Vista in a state that is as bug free as the Mac.

          Vista is Allchin’s final legacy at Microsoft. After a long successful career this is his last hurah and in order to be successful it simply must be perfect.

          Allchin writes, “2-and-? years later, Windows Vista has turned into a phenomenal product, better than any other OS we’ve ever built and far, far better than any other software available today, in my opinion. ”

          We will see. I certainly will be upgrading at least one of my PCs to Vista when it ships and will give it a go. The demo stuff I’ve seen of Vista has been very impressive — but fundamentally for me the most important question will be “does it just work?” Does it just work like a Mac does?

          ta mick

        • #2501948

          Ms haunted by vista betas

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to The question still stands

          Thi is from apc.com.au
          Vista beta haunts Microsoft helpdesk
          14th December 2006 Dan Warne The Invistagator, Vista, Windows
          In a surreal “Groundhog Day” type announcement, Microsoft has announced it will now be offering tech support for Windows Vista betas.

          Microsoft finished the final “release to manufacturing” version of Vista a month ago and released it to business customers two weeks ago.

          Yet it now says it will provide “best effort” tech support to members of the public who are unfortunate enough to still be running Beta 2, RC1 or RC2.

          There are some caveats, however.

          Don’t even pick up the phone if you are trying to use Vista in a network domain environment, if you’re using a non-English version, or if you’re outside the US/Canada. (Of course, cheap VoIP makes international phone calls less of an issue these days.)

          One can’t help feeling the tech support team might have been dragged to the table kicking and screaming by the public relations and sales/marketing people, fearful of adverse ‘word of mouth’ reports about problems with the Vista beta in the lead up to the big sales push.

          Microsoft’s blog posts concludes with “For all CPP participants, the newsgroups remain the most valuable channel for finding helpful information on general issues related to Windows Vista.”

          In other words, Microsoft helps those who help themselves.

          ta mick

    • #2501831

      vista

      by njneiljones100 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      how can ya say vista is crap ,have you got it . No I don’t think so yet. I’m waiting for my free package upgrade and it aint out yet. Sorry

      • #2502848

        sorry to dissapoint you in what looks like to you

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to vista

        that i’m just making off the cuff comments.
        I have tested vista thoroughly used special development software & tools checking of source code for errors & to assess it’s strenghts & weaknesses & compared with other op systems as well recent trends indicate that i’m right that it is a piece
        of crap.
        ta mick

        • #2502812

          Yea and I’ve been asking/waiting for you to list the build numbers

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to sorry to dissapoint you in what looks like to you

          on the versions that you tested. Also how did you get those versions??
          Besides in another of these replys you said that you were waiting to see Vista so you could compare to Apple computer. Why when you say that you have tested all versions and they are crap.
          Mike
          PS If I was wrong about you being defuse-I apologize.

        • #2502602

          after the way i have been treated by you guys

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Yea and I’ve been asking/waiting for you to list the build numbers

          i’m not giving anything away to anyone.I have been threatened ms on a personal level.
          No way hose.previously i was going to release for xmas comparison charts of different vista builds with performance from xp & other detailed info.But after the way i’ve been treated & personal threats i’m not going to risk it.
          You just have to find out for yourselves.
          anyway i’m getting ready for my hols in central australia.
          ta mick

        • #2502558

          I have never threatened you-in fact for the most part I

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to after the way i have been treated by you guys

          have treated you with respect. All I ask is proof. Performance maybe less than XP but I can not notice a differance since I’m not a gamer-only game I play is Chess(which is in VIsta). For me the performanceseems just as fast as XP. I have recorded and burned TV Movies to dvd’s. In Vista X64 the convert/burn time is done much faster(+2/3 rd’s faster) than XP. I have had no BSOD’s or any other problems.
          Mike

        • #2501387

          we’ll agree to disagree but you have to read & marvel at

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I have never threatened you-in fact for the most part I

          the way people treat each other,
          lets agree to disagree & i’m not going to be ass forthcoming as people think even though i have been thretened by ms to shut me up.
          ta mick

        • #2502745

          checking of source code for errors !!!

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to sorry to dissapoint you in what looks like to you

          How – you don’t have it – no person has the source code – FOUND OUT>

        • #2502607

          i,ve got software that will check source code

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to checking of source code for errors !!!

          I don’t have to brag i’ve got it I can check things for errors,i can analyse software for stability performance etc.I was going to release data on vista & i was going to release performance charts of vista vs xp etc etc .Now i’m not giving anything out look at the way people treat me like shit why should i??.
          ta mick

        • #2502552

          What source code and how did you get it

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i,ve got software that will check source code

          I have been asking for the data since just about you started saying Vista is crap.You have yet to prove to me you know what your talking about.
          Oh, on the source code-MS never releases their code so where did you get it from and how can you check literally millions of lines of code without it.
          Mike

        • #2502540

          NOT TOO WORRY MICHAEL..

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to What source code and how did you get it

          MICKY MOUSE AND HIS VISTA CIRCUS MERRY GO ROUND WILL BE GONE SOON, IF HE HAS A BRAIN LEFT AND PICKED UP ON THE MESSAGE HE RECIVED

          I HAVE A FEELING HE’S GOING TOO BE BUSY LATER, DOING A LOT OF HOUSE CLEANING FOR CHRISTMAS…I’LL LET HIM HAVE THAT FRIST OF COURSE, BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE HAPPENS, TOLD HIM NOT TOO MESS WITH ME,GAVE HIM CLUES WOULDN’T LISTEN, NOT SO SMART AFTER ALL.

          THEN THIS FORUM CAN GET BACK TOO NORMAL, FOR ALL OF YOUS WITH PEOPLE IN HERE, LIKE YOURSELF AND REST OF YOUS THAT CAN AND ARE ABLE TO TALK SHOP ON OTHER TOPICS TOO, BESIDES ONES PERSONS CONSTANT WINDOWS BASHING…BS TOUR AND IT APPEARS TO BE ILLEGAL USE OF SOURCE SOFTHWARE CODE ON TOP OF THIS.

          NOT A COOL THING TO DO ANYWAYS.

          TC

        • #2502512
          Avatar photo

          Just one point here

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to NOT TOO WORRY MICHAEL..

          What may be Illegal in the US isn’t illegal in other parts of the world. For instance the M$ EULA isn’t legal in AU are you aware of that?

          As far as I’m concerned this Forum has been [b]Perfectly Normal[/b] for a very long time and this one thread is just part of a much bigger picture called TR. If you don’t like one thread [b]DON’T PARTICIPATE AFTER ALL NO ONE IS HOLDING A GUN TO YOUR HEAD UNLESS YOU WORK FOR M$ IN WHICH CASE EVERY ONE OF YOUR POSTS HAVE A VESTED INTEREST.[/b]

          Actually as I’m both a M$ Partner and Technet Member I’m ashamed to be associated with people like you who issue personal attacks rather than defend their arguments as they lack any form of a leg to stand upon.

          While M$ makes some decent products they are only part of the world of IT not the [b]Be All & End All[/b] of everything software related and they are certainly not the [b]Biggest Computer Company[/b] in the World as the Media likes to describe them.

          While you are entitled to your opinions they sound very much like the ramblings of a M$ Stooge without any real experience in the World of IT let alone any real knowledge of the Legal Implications of some of your comments.

          For the M$ relationship in AU I suggest that you contact Mark O’Shea the AU Technical Director of what happens here in AU. The M$ Sales people insisted that I remove the reference to Linux from my companies Web Site so I asked for that direction in writing and suggested that they seek legal advice on their demands. Mark rang me latter and asked what was going on and I just asked him what product M$ offered that would run on a 2K CPU Blade used for CG work and would run a Dedicated Nix application that speeded up the work. That as the end of the entire thing as far as I was concerned though if push came to shove I would quite happily have made an Official Complaint to the ACCC and that would have prevented M$ from doing any new business in AU till the case was settled. Under AU law M$ has to support any product that they sell here and even OEM Stuff can not be passed back to the System Builder as that is plain & Simple Illegal.

          Currently I have several QC’s who want to take M$ down a peg or two but I’m not interested in becoming involved as I don’t have the time or inclination to waste on what will turn out to be years of Legal Argument that M$ can not win.

          When you have been exposed to the [b]REAL WORLD[/b] you’ll obviously start to think a bit differently and remember that TR is a [b]World Wide Community[/b] not some American only club that anyone else is prevented from joining. That is what makes TR such a great place to be in.

          OH BTW I only use M$ because I used to work medical and we needed to deferante Multiple Serrious from Microsoft as all the IT workers got sick and tired of attempting to explain to Doctors and administration staff that [b]No Their Computers Didn’t have Multiple Serrious but where using Microsoft Software.[/b] So don’t try to read anything into what I place here that was never my intention. Even M$ AU accepts this from me on the few occasions when I have to contact them for something relating to their products.

          Col

        • #2501382

          Did any one asked you to comment NO

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to NOT TOO WORRY MICHAEL..

          So shut up & mind your own business.
          I thing you belong to another threaD THE MORON THREAD.
          ta ta mick

        • #2501675

          Forum will return to normal

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to NOT TOO WORRY MICHAEL..

          when some folks stop shouting like children in the playground.

        • #2492184

          you can go jump i’m not going to reveal to you my secrets

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What source code and how did you get it

          you can go catch a bus & go to redmond & ask
          to be shown the source code.
          ta mick

        • #2501390

          i’ve got software checking

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to checking of source code for errors !!!

          i could have published comparison charts etc where vista falls short &where their problems are.But the way you guys treat me i’d be an idiot to do it.Lets face you & others have treated me like a piece of shit if you were only more friendly i would have gone out of my way.
          so
          mick

        • #2501174

          The records stuck…

          by jpenrose ·

          In reply to i’ve got software checking

          …The records stuck…The records stuck…The records stuck…The records stuck…The records stuck…The records stuck…The records stuck…The records stuck…

        • #2501114

          Mick for $100…Name that tune (c)

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to The records stuck…

          Hang on?…..got it… it’s called… it’s crap.

          The records stuck…listen

          The only crap ahh, that’s in a here ahh, is with a you… it’s crap….Skip

          The only crap ahh, that’s in a here ahh, is with a you… it’s crap….Skip

          The only crap ahh that’s in a here…Skip

          The only crap ahh that’s in a here…Skip

          here…Skip…

          crap…Skip…

          here…Skip…

          crap…Skip…

          here…Skip…

          is with a you… it’s crap…Skip…

          is with a you… it’s crap…Skip…

          is with a you… it’s crap…Skip…

          The records stuck…… it’s crap

          scatcheeeeee..

          It look’s like a , all in here ahh just wase a there time ahh with your crap ola and a fool and that’s ahh for sure ahh..lol

          no a doubt a bout it, this a Micky daa crap Mouse a club just a for you’s.

          it like ahh, the broken of a daaaaa record.

          it’s ahh crap.

          just like a daaaaaa you, the Micky the Mouse

          got ahh love it..lol

          See you next time, on name that tuned…coming up…Mick’s, see I’m right and your wrong, cry of the Vista crap rain dance for aussie’s and Morons, who have trouble running it, because they got no clue and also later on, the Legal Implications of world wide copywrite laws and Illegal useage and infringement of softhware 101. stay tuned.

        • #2501106
          Avatar photo

          You should try dealing with M$ on a commercial basis

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Mick for $100…Name that tune (c)

          I support 1 Government Department with 2,500 XP Pro workstations and they jumped on the XP bandwagon as soon as it was released.

          That in itself I don’t have a problem with but some fool at M$ Sales told them they they could use XP Pro as a server so they had a lot of 10 station Peer to Peer Networks which where then connected to higher up the food chain 10 Peer to Peer work groups all the way up to the main server which in theory should have been able to read any XP machine on the network. Of course it didn’t work as it was envisaged and we got called in to make it work.

          After having a look see our first suggestion was that they needed a Real Server Application and not rely on sub Peer to Peer Workgroups but they should setup a Domain with sub domains as required and populate the Forest across their entire network. We handed them a base suggestion of what we thought would be required and a bill thinking that would be the end of things.

          Unfortunately the Governments IT Group couldn’t get the system working so we got another call back to set it up properly which was painful slow and a real nuisance retrofitting the system to what it should have been instead of what it actually was. At the time I didn’t realise that the Governments IT section had already refused to support this particular devision and we got stuck with the work. Normally this wouldn’t have been a big deal but it was XP Pro on a Volume License and being a Government Department staff change like the wind all that every new member of staff was ever told was to ring us when they had a problem.

          We supplied nothing but expertise to make the system run properly the Government department bought all the hardware, and all the M$ Product as they get it at a massive discount from M$.

          But since the original install when SP1 became available we had to change the product key on every computer as SP1 insisted that this was not Genuine M$ product so the then system admin instead of asking us what they should do promptly rang M$ and reported us for dealing in Pirate Software. That made getting a replacement product key so easy and instead of taking 7 to 10 days it took close to a month as we had to dig through the Government records and prove that the Government had brought the product directly from M$.

          Then SP2 came out and exactly the same thing happened and we got reported again by the then System Admin for something that we had absolutely nothing at all to do with again a few months to prove to M$ that the Person making the complaint didn’t know what they where talking about and it was actually a M$ problem that was causing the message to appear on the screens.

          Then a few weeks latter just after we had changed every Product Key in the building over to the newly supplied one WGA became available and the same thing happened and the same Bureaucrat again rang M$ complaining that we had supplied them Pirate Software even though she knew this to be incorrect but I suppose that she didn’t like to be proved wrong and made a fool of.

          Of course the Server 2003 copies have worked perfectly and we are constantly told by the ever changing staff that they are the only ones to buy Software as they do it right.

          I don’t like being reported to M$ for something that I haven’t done and I like M$’s response even less as once a complaint has been made you are guilty and have to prove your innocence even if you went through the entire mess 2 weeks previously and they already know that there is a problem at that place and better still that we had absolutely nothing at all to do with the supply of the offending product.

          After the third complaint to M$ I told the Person in charge there to find a new contractor as I was unwilling to do anything more for them, Of course the Government IT section refuses to deal with this crowd so we’re stuck with them for the time being at least.

          The only great news is that they are moving to Vista early in the new year and I can finally drop them in the $H#t that they belong in and walk away quite happily knowing that none of my staff will ever be abused again for the stupidity of some [b]Brain Dead Bureaucrat.[/b] But I’m just waiting for the call when they get Vista installed and it doesn’t work as they want it to I’m going to take great pleasure in telling them that currently we are not supporting Vista in a [b]Large LAN[/b] so they will have to look elsewhere for the service that they require.

          After 3 False Reports of selling a bulk amount of Pirate M$ Software I’m feed up and I never want to see them again. I’ll not mention the abuse that my staff get from these people or the threating letters from M$ Legal for something that I have no control over or the mess that they make for their customers.

          While I can live with the phone calls from M$ Legal attempting to get me to sell them a computer with Pirate M$ Software installed I don’t like them and I immediately know who they are as I don’t do domestic work so I just play along and explain why I can not supply what they are asking for at the price that they are prepared to pay. The last one must have been really desperate as they kept me on the phone for 2 hours pleading with me for a tower with Windows XP Pro and Office SBE at the very least for less than the cost of the OEM M$ Software and I kept explaining to them how I couldn’t help them and suggesting that they ring Dell or someone like that. Finally out of desperation I offered to supply them a very basic tower with XP Pro and Open Office installed which would do everything that they wanted but not breach M$ Licensing Policy. Then all I would have had to find is a source of OEM M$ Product as I never use it as all my work involves Volume License Product and Software Assurance so it’s easy to pick the M$ Legal Department requests for stuff, but I really don’t see why I should be singled out for this treatment when I’ve consistently proved over the years that I’ve had absolutely nothing at all to do with the supply of Faulty M$ Windows XP.

          At the last Partners Meeting I asked the head of the Legal Department had they solved their problems and stopped selling Pirate M$ Software to which she said they didn’t do it so I handed her a copy of everything that I’ve received from M$ over the years relating to this one place and my responses and with a bit of luck that will be the end of it but I’m not holding my breath waiting.

          Col

        • #2503007

          The real Truth about Vista code…lol

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to Mick for $100…Name that tune (c)

          the truth is out there….

          how i came to know that vista is crap is priveledged information, for i Mick, at night, put on my cape and become a secret agent man and my real last name is moulder…micheal…and now about
          to share with you and the world, this priveledged information.

          All i can say is you meet all kinds of people, real, fictional and imagenary too, when you are studying for a Phd, in how to spell and type rite.

          Theres ways & meanws to everythin. if only i could figure out what they were..butt as long as i keep telling myself i did it, then by god mate, while laying back and downing 2 cases of fosters larger in the morning to get my day started, well by the end of it mate, i guess i must of did it, i think?…. did i?………ahhhhh….were i’m i.. what were? we

          talking about….oh ya forgot, keep hearing music in my dam head…..must be daa broken record…from the….Vista is crap by Mick….crikey, that name sounds so familar..oh ya…that’s me mate…..lol

          I cannot divulge my sources as more than can anyone else, since they only exsist in the dark coradoors of ones own dark recesses of ones own mine, scarey eh?

          Boo…. you get my drift and that smell, sorry mate, it’s the fosters and that Kagaroo i had for breckfast, barking back at me.

          I could publish my findings, if only ,i could find out who and what they are frist and why they are here. or maybe write
          a book. once i learn how to write and type…oh ya..forgot..going for my phd. frist and then RIGHT after that, MY nuke-goo-u-lar science DEGREE, then most likely will be hired by MR. burns, move to springfield U.S.A and work along side Homer Simpson…NP…i’ll teach hommie a thing or two.

          But divulging my sources is not auger with me, since i will argue with anyone, for no apairent reason, weather it makes sence or not, including myself, and have went a few rounds with myself too and won everyone.

          proof to back it up too.np..when the last time you knew anyone that would kick the crap out of themselfs, just to tell themselfs to shut up, i send you movie i made while doimg this. i laugh every time i play it, which is every hour.

          But i have divulged my tools of trade which is more than enough.

          in case you forgot here they are again. micheal, my top 9 list….for number 10 is so top secret, even i dont know what it is ans i’am even working on it too.

          1. windows XP for dummies

          2. 1 non-working ati rage fury pro.64 mb video card

          3. 5 and a half in.. floppy drive, no cable

          4. 100MB super duper, zip drive, with no USB cable, still cant belive how much SPACE they got in these things AND HOW THEY MANAGE TO PUT 80 FLOPPIES IN IT TOO and IT’S still so thin…amazing tech really.wow.

          one day when i know what i’m doing, the frist thing i’ll do is open her up carefully since i think it’s spring loaded and take them all out when i got enough room on my desk….hang on ..note to myself..get new desk and face gaurd, for all those floppies.

          5. 1 tweeter,

          6. heathkit advance tube ham radio from 1968 for talking to my speical invisable friends at night, even works when it not plug in too.

          7. keyboard, in korean, which dont help me one bloody bit mate, in spelling or typping, plus a 1 yrs accumalation of, so you what to be a mover and a shaker, for united van lines. inc.

          8. car and driver books, for which car to use for quick getaway, if microsoft comes to get me.

          9. ONE IT PRO MAG…ISSUE, front cover say… if you cant do it, dont worry it’s crap anyways.

          you see michael, like i can say is you meet all kind of people, but in my case i not meet anyone yet, not even outside my house, only this place and hal9000 and you….and the dark coradoors of ones own dark recesses of ones own mine, scarey eh?

          Boo…..blime..sorry, forgot.did that already.

          i can and will divulge for the frist time ever, where i got the vista code from micheal,, and please dont tell anyone, they might think it crap.

          ok…………

          here’s it’s go.

          one night , not so long ago, i was playing with and turning my ham radio around and around and around for better reception.. when, i picked up a signel from a alien race of beings from the planet boltron, well then , when they knew i contacted them, critty, presto, i was abducted by them, quicker than i can log off here Micheal and not one for shooting ones own mouth off mate, which i do anyways about everything else, despite myself, i guess they took one look at me and after asking me questions, they told me, Mick you full of crap and said, you go now or we will destroy your world, but lucky for you’s and mankind, micheal, since i will not back down and argue with everyone…even with aliens because…well…. the rest as they say is top secrect and history even till this day.

          ok…micheal……???????… micheal?….you still there?…………oh…i see you fall on floor and now back in your chair…that’s good.

          anyways, i took them all on mate..yep me, just me and my fosters beer ,which i manage too slip, a few dozen down me shorts before i left..

          now, you may say micheal?…WOW…what happen next mick..how was it possible for you to take on all these aliens..BY YOURSELF.

          well my friend…it was even easyier than that..you see micheal, i have 2 secret weapons , that only Mick has with him 7/24..of course i use the frist one frist on them, which is my mouth…yep…simple eh…they got so tried of listening to my crap about XP being crap, never mind, even letting me get started on Vista, when they suddely cut me short and threw up their tiny, long skinny arms, in the air, and said please, please mr. the mick stop already , will give you anything you want..just shut up about XP PLEASEEEEE…so i said, really? anything?…yes they said, anything, money, women, men, toys, plants, houses, planes cars..power..the world if you want.

          well micheal…you know all those things wont bring a simple minded man like me with my intellect, happyniess..

          so since i knew, they can be invisable too, with their acme cloaking device, given to them by BUGS BUNNY when they abducted him IN 1948 AT ROSWELL..see micheal, there were two saucers that day and one crashed and the other had Bugs in it and in case you dont know this micheal, that’s were we get the term Bugs from, in computer talk, i also found out from them, that this device was… MADE BY?..WHO ELSE………..microsoft Mick?….yep…YOU Guessed it bucko, Microsoft, they been around a lot longer than any ones knows and bill gates he just a clone…that’s were we get the term clones from too..for the pc’s. WELL that really pissed me off to no end when i found that out… THEN I NEW right then and there what a aussie had too do..WITH A FEW FOSTERS and a kagaroo in me mate, i like , let GO MY OTHER secret weapon, one great big one too, AUSSIE style and i must say one of the best that ever came out of me mate and if i do say so myself, WHOOOOO HEEEEEE… that got there attention really quick. and then they fly me over OVER TO BILLS HOUSE NP AND get me a copy of vista..oops….HEHEHE i mean the source code…

          AMAZING EH MATE….I’LL SAY MICK ..

          YA.TOOK THEM DAM NEAR 5 MINS TO GET IT TOO, SLOW THESE ALIENS THEY ARE.

          THEN I FIND OUT, THEY WERE GOING TO DROP ME OFF IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ATLANTIC OCEAN..WELL THAT’S CRAP I SAID TO MYSELF FOR LIKE 30 MINS AND WHEN I STARTED TOO TALK TOO THEM AGAIN, TO LET THEM KNOW I NEW. WELL BLIME, PRESTO, FOUND MYSELF droped right next door to a pub, JUST DOWN FROM WHERE I LIVE, SO I DROP IN FOR A FEW and then finish off the other case, WHEN I GOT BACK HOME AND WAS about to rip into ANYWAYS THERE MATE before the abduction..

          so i guess, i saved the world from being invaded, THKS TOO MICROSOFT, MICHEAL…see. being A secret AGENT WITH A butt hole PROBLEM COMES in handy mate..yaaaa they not so smart them, these aliens and microsoft AND BETWEEN ME

          AND YOU MICHEAL..i took one of there MOST advanced type Writers and shove it down my shorts..since i drank all the fosters on their saucer ANYWAYS.

          BLIME..too bad the dam things in korean,

          SO NOW YOU KNOW ,HOW I GOT THE SORCE VISTA CODE AND NOW YOU KNOW I’M DOING THE SAME THING IN HERE WITH VISTA TO all of YOU’S AS I DID TO THOSE ALIENS WITH XP…LOL.

          SO WHERE WERE WE Micheal?….oh ya

          Vista….. is crap….carry on….lol

          HAD TOO BREAK THE tension IN HERE MICK, EVEN IF VISTA IS CRAP, REALLY, dont matter, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GET IT AND USE IT ANYWAYS MICK, LIKE PEOPLE WANT THEIR BIG MAC’S AT MCDONALDS AND THAT CRAP WILL KILL YA FOR SURE…LOL and that will keep me employed too.

        • #2502900

          good to see you are having fun

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Mick for $100…Name that tune (c)

          crap is that tune looks like you’ve got it.
          ta mick

        • #2502905

          you are fucking hilarious

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to The records stuck…

          time is definitely on my side as i know i’m right & you guys treat it all as a joke!
          ta mick

        • #2502904

          well michael youwant to know everything

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to The records stuck…

          the problem is i can’t divulge every little detail ,what with offers to write a book on vista & other lucrative deals why should i.
          We’ll let that go.
          ta mick

      • #2502590

        i don’t have prove anything to anyone you will have to make up

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to vista

        your own mind.Why should i bend over backwards for you people & some of you are very insulting & you just don’t seem to get it.When the evidence around is so overwhelming.
        ta mick

        • #2502566

          What evidence- I have seen none and

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i don’t have prove anything to anyone you will have to make up

          I am using the RTM version of Vista and I see no problems in either x86 or X64. I would still like to know how you got the source code of Vista, when MS never releases the code.
          Mike

        • #2501392

          you want proof your

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What evidence- I have seen none and

          not going to get it after the way you insulted me & are keep insulting.
          ta mick

        • #2501339

          Poor boy or are you a grownup

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to you want proof your

          gsaravine-you have insulted me many times-I have many times asked for proof-when I do you usually ignore me or you say VIsta is crap without giving proof.
          Both you and WDUPCF need to growup. Real grownups donot insult others for disagreeing with somebody else’s opinion.
          Since September I have asked for proof-not once have you given us your proof.
          Mike

        • #2501320
          Avatar photo

          Michael have you had much to do with Office 2007?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Poor boy or are you a grownup

          There are a couple of questions on areas that I haven’t worked on here if you can help

          http://techrepublic.com.com/5268-11518-0.html?id=4596979&filter=3

          They are with InfoPath & SharePoint both of which I’ve had very little to do with.

          Col

        • #2501273

          No I have not Hal

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Michael have you had much to do with Office 2007?

          I usually test Operating systems- udate site-service packs things of that nature.
          Mike

        • #2501178

          well michael you seem to be the poor victim

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Poor boy or are you a grownup

          & not me eh.Even if i give you proof you won’t beleive me so there you are you just shooting the messenger before they have chance to prove themselves.
          ta mick

        • #2501177

          all i know that some accounting programs are incompatible

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well michael you seem to be the poor victim

          with office 2007.there are numerious problems & bugs that make office 2007 incompatible with vista itself.Whether ms can resolve all the known issues or some of the issues remains to be seen.I tend to opt for open source programs as there seems to be less complex situations developing.
          Can you imagine that businesses are spending 100’s thousands of dollars on accounting packages only to discover that
          they don’t function properly.
          ta mick

        • #2501176

          source code testing proves vista is crap

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well michael you seem to be the poor victim

          Source code testing proves vista is crap
          I use software that other developers use called klocwork,which perform a detailed source code & design analysis.i can even look at complex situtions involving millions of lines of code.
          Also i use Seapine’s testtrack pro software ,it allows detailed tracking of any bugs.I also have used microsoft’s sourcesafe .As well as automated
          checking & verification i can select manual checking
          of code or any software.I also use testtrack pro from seapine which is a cross platform software
          which can quickly analyse any source code control integration.
          I also use a source code analyser from fortify software is called source code analysis 3.5It allows software developers to identify,priortise,
          & resolve any flaws in software applications before the operating system is deployed.I can check up on the actual operating system as it’s functioning with or without the software !I can pinpoint errors both in the operating system & the actual applications running.
          There is
          a built in structural analiser for finding flaws or definition of a program.

          ta mick

        • #2501108

          You keep saying you test the source code

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well michael you seem to be the poor victim

          But where did you get the source code from. MS does not give out their source code.
          From what I’ve read on the programs you say you use to test it-you need the source code. So how did you get it??
          Mike

        • #2501044

          well michael youwant to know everything

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well michael you seem to be the poor victim

          how i came to know that vista is crap is priveledged information.All i can say is you meet all kind of people when you are studyingfor a Phd.Theres ways & meanws to everything.I cannot divulge my sources as more than can anyone else you get my drift.
          I could publish my findings or maybe write
          a book.But divulging my sources is not auger with me.
          But i have divulged my tools of trade which is more than enough.
          ta mick

        • #2501024

          I’m sorry gsaravin but no way can you have the source code

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well michael you seem to be the poor victim

          As MS would gaurd it as heavily as the USA gaurds Fort Knox.
          Another thing at first you kept saying you had tested all the builds on various hardware-then you tried other people’s articles with not reporting the whole article(only what supported your opinion)now your saying that you tested the source code -parden me but I don’t think so.
          Mike

        • #2501666

          Are we saying here

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to well michael you seem to be the poor victim

          that it is utterly impossible for gsaravin to have the code or that it is improbable? There is a difference. Not even top secret things of national security are always safe. Many may spill the beans if the price is right……Let’s Make a Deal……

        • #2488727

          What I’m saying is that very few have access to

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well michael you seem to be the poor victim

          The full source code.Most MS employees will only have access to those parts of Vista that they work on. Vista is componentized so that they add components for the differant versions. Very-very few have access to the kernal code. So the possiblity of gsaravin having all the source code -you would more likely be hit by lightning 2 times before he would have it.
          Mike

        • #2501720

          well michael you seem to want to know evertything part 3

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What evidence- I have seen none and

          May i suggest you take up crystal ball gazing & fortune telling because that is all you are going to get from me.As i cannot divulge my sources.Particularly in relation to source codes et all such subjects are taboo.Do you want ms to mount
          a massive legal challenge??Have you got a couple billion bucks to cover it??
          I think just be happy with wcdp’s brand of humour!!sorry if i got his name wrong.
          All the best
          mick

        • #2501518

          well michael you seem to want to know evertything part 4

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to well michael you seem to want to know evertything part 3

          Thks Mick, HAD TOO BREAK THE TENTSION IN HERE, EVEN FOR ME.

          EVEN IF VISTA IS CRAP, REALLY, MICK, DONT MATTER ANYWAYS. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GET IT AND USE IT ANYWAYS, LIKE PEOPLE WANT THEIR BIG MAC’S AT MCDONALDS AND A DIET COKE AND THAT CRAP WILL KILL YA FOR SURE…LOL

          LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I RUN RC2 ON 3 MACHINES, THEY ALL WORK FINE, NOT ONE PROBLEM…BUT I’M SURE ONE DAY, ONE WILL POP UP AND WHEN IT DOES, ILL DEAL WITH IT, LIKE EVERYONE IS DOING ANY WAYS WITH ALL THE OTHER OS’S TOO, THAT’S WHY WE ALL HAVE JOBS IN THIS AREA.

          LOOK AT IT THIS WAY..MICK.IF THERE WAS A PERFECT OS OUT THERE AND EVERYONE WAS USING IT, THEN THERE BE NO JOBS FOR ANYONE TO REPAIR THIS STUFF FROM THE OS LEVEL AND WE JUST WAIT AROUND TILL SOMETHING BREAKS AT THE HARDWARE LEVEL, WHICH MEANS MOST, WOULD BE OUT OF WORK AT SO MANY LEVELS IN THIS FIELD, IT’S ALMOST SCAREY TO THINK ABOUT IT..AND ONLY A FEW WOULD WORK, FOR DEPLOYMENT AND HARDWARE UPGRADES, SO ON SO FORTH.

          I CANT PRETEND TO KNOW EVERYTHING EITHER IN THIS FIELD,I DONT AND NEVER WILL, NO ONE DOES OR CAN EITHER…IF THEY THINK THEY DO, WELL THEY MORE FOOL, THEN ME.

          I REMEMBER A LONG WHILE BACK, WHEN ON A SERVICE CALL TO A PRIVATE HOME…THE LADY, SHE HAD XP ON HER SYSTEM WITH SP1 AND ONE OF THE FEW I CAME ACROSS THAT HAD EVERY THING RIGHT UP TO DATE AT THAT TIME, VERY RARE, FOR HOME USERS, WHICH HELPS ME ALOT, BELIVE ME, BUT HER OS WAS DOING WEIRD AND WONDERFULL THINGS THAT EVEN HAD ME SCATCHING MY HEAD.

          LETS JUST SAY IT WAS OUT OF ORDER AT SO MANY LEVELS…IT WAS A JOKE…ABOUT AN HOUR LATER, STILL NO FIX..ON ONE OF THE MOST Screwed UP I HAD COME ACROSS IN A LONG WHILE..I ASK HER AFTER, IF SHE HAD UPGRADED ANY OF HER HARDWARE….SHE SAID SHE HAD JUST GOT A NEW WIRELESS KEYBOARD AND MOUSE PACKAGE..ABOUT.2 WEEKS AGO, SO I SAID TO HER..IF SHE NOTICE IF THE PROBLEMS HAD STARTED AT THE TIME….ALL I GOT BACK FROM HER WAS, I GUESS SO, WHICH WAS TO BE EXSPECTED AND DID’NT HELP MUCH.

          SO SINCE I CARRY MOST THE SAME COMPONETS ONE WOULD USE AT THEIR DESK, JUST IN CASE, I UNPLUG HER WIRELESS KEYBOARD AND USED MY PS2 ONE, REBOOTED AND LOW AND BEHOLD….THE OS RAN AS IF NOTHING WAS WRONG WITH IT, GO FIGURE, A BRAND NEW DEFECTIVE WIRELESS KEYBOARD KNOCKING THE CRAP OUT OF THE OS WITH CERTAIN KEYSTROKES….BUT OF COURSE THE OS GET’S THE BLAME FRIST, AS ALWAYS, THE POINT BEING, WHEN I THINK ABOUT IT NOW…MOST OF THE REPAIRS I DO ARE HARDWARE RELATED TO THE OS…VIDEO CARDS MOUSE, HARDRIVES, SOUND CARDS.ECT AND MOST ARE DRIVER RELATED ISSUSES TOO AND THIRD PARTY SOFTHWARE PROGRAMS RUN AMOCK WITH BAD CODE AND DLL’S BUMPING INTO EACH, OR SHOULD I SAY SMASHING INTO EACH OTHER, MOST DONT UPDATE NOTHING AND MOST RUN NORTON TOO, WHICH DONT HELP EITHER.

          THEY WILL SWEAR AND CURSE AND BLAME THE OS FRIST, WHEN IN FACT..IT’S THE PERSON WHO’S THEIR OWN WORSE ENEMY..OR HARDWARE…IN MOST CASES….YES SHE HAD NORTON TOO….AND I TOOK IT OFF HER SYSTEM AFTER THE FACT..AND DID SOME TUNNING AND SHE WAS MORE HAPPY THEN A PIG IN A MUD BATH.AFTERWARDS…LOL,

          SINCE THEN, WHEN ON A SERVICE CALL WE MAKE SURE AND ASK FRIST ABOUT ANY HARDWARE UPGRADES AND MAKE NOTES BEFORE WE EVEN TACKLE THE OS. AND BELIVE IT NOT MICK AND I HAD SAID BEFORE TOO…WHAT A UNDER POWERED. POWER SUPPLY CAN DO TO A COMPUTER AND THE OS.

          I RECOMEND AND REPLACE THAT ONE MORE OFFTEN THAN ANY OTHER COMPONET AND DOES WONDERS IN MAKING THE COMPUTER RUN STABEL. WHY?

          6 YEARS AGO I WORKED FOR A COMPANY CALLED TECHNOTRADE, AND I WAS ONE OF ONLY 3 HEAD SERVICE TECH LEADERS, EACH OF US HAD A GROUP OF OTHER SERVICE PEOPLE UNDER US AND TO LOOK AFTER TOO, BIG COMPANY AND HAD STORES ALL OVER THE PLACE UNDER THE BIC COMPUTERS CHAIN…ALL OF THERE REPAIRS CAME TO US AT HEAD OFFICE..LOTS AND I MEAN LOTS…WELL, WHEN THEY TOOK ON MSI AND STARTED BUILDING THERE WHITE BOX SYSTEMS WITH THAT GET UP, IT WAS’NT TOO LONG AFTER WARDS, WE NOTICE THEY WERE ALL COMING BACK, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, WITH BLOWN RAM AND OR MOTHERBOARDS OR BOTH, WELL IT WAS RIGHT ON THE PHONE TO MSI AND EVERYONE WAS NOT HAPPY TO SAY THE LEAST..AND OF COURSE THE MOTHERBOARD GOT THE BLAME FOR BEING CRAP…WEEKS WENT BY, MORE CAME BACK, IT WAS TURNING INTO A JOKE, SO ONE NIGHT I TOOK ONE APART WITH MY BUDDY TECH TIM….WE LOOK AT EVERY THING AND WAS KINDA OF WONDERING IF WE TOO WOULD ALSO END UP SMOKING ONE OF THESE, BEFORE WE FIGURED OUT WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS….FOR WE DID THIS ON THE SIDE, OUT OF INVENTORY AND NO ONE NEW…

          RISKY TO SAY THE LEAST.

          WE FOUND OUT WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS ALL RIGHT AND BY Accident TOO…I HAD KNOCKED POWER SUPPLY OFF THE TABLE, WHICH LANDED ON THE FLOOR, WHEN I PICKED IT UP, I JUST STARTED TO READ THE SIDE LABEL ON THE SPECKS..SOMETHING TO DO I GUESS IN BETWEEN.WHILE WE TOOK A BREAK,IT SAID 150 WATTS..I LOOK AT TIM AND SAID YOU KNOW SOMETHING, SEEMS TO ME THAT 150 WATTS MIGHT NOT BE ENOUGH FOR THAT PACKAGE SYSTEM, SO WE HOOKED IT UP AND MEASURED THE OUTPUT…WHOOO…WHAT WE GOT BACK WAS EVEN WORSE THAN THAT…THE OUTPUT CAME BACK AT ONLY 80 WATTS…AT FRIST WE THOUGHT WE HAD A DEFECTIVE ONE ANYWAYS…AND GRABBED ANOTHER ONE, SAME THING AND ANOTHER ONE, SAME THING, WE WENT THROUGH 5 OF THEM, ALL CAME BACK AS 80 WATTERS….WOW, WHAT WE DISCOVER IS ALL THE POWER SUPPLIES THE CAME WITH THAT WHITE BOX CASE SETUP WAS MISLABLED POWER SUPPLIES FROM THE MANUFACTURE AND THEY WERE BLOWING THE CRAP OUT OF THE MSI MOTHERBOARDS AND RAM, WE ALSO FOUND OUT AFTER REPORTING THIS AND THE CAUSE, THAT SOME DIP STICK IN THE BUYING DEPARTMENT WANTED TO SHOW EVERY ONE HOW SMART HE WAS IN SAVING THE COMPANY SOME MONEY BY OUTSOURCING TO A DIIFERNT CASE MAKER TO GET A BETTER DEAL..THAT DEAL. COST HIM HIS JOB AND THE COMPANY A LOAD OF MONEY TO GET THINGS BACK TOO NORMAL , SINCE MSI AND KINGSTON WOULD NOT REPLACE ANYMORE OF THEIR STUFF FOR FREE UNDER warrenty SINCE IT WAS’NT THEIR FAULT AND WORSE, THE COMPANY HAD TO PAID THEM THE MONEY ON WHAT WAS GIVEN AS FREE REPLACE UP UNTILL WE FOUND OUT WHAT THE REAL PROBLEM WAS.

          WE GOT ARE THANKYOU’S FROM UPSTAIRS AND WAS ALSO ASK WHAT WE THOUGH ABOUT ALL THIS…IT WAS EASY… GET RID OF THE THE CASE MANUFACTURE AND TIM AND I ALSO RECOMENDED THE USE OF 250 WATT POWER SUPPLIES FOR BASE SYSTEMS AND OF COURSE HIGHER FOR THEIR TOP OF THE LINE WHITEBOX SYSTEM, IF I CAN REMEMBER, I THINK IT WAS 350 WATT MAX BACK THEN..THE POINT BEING…IF THE SYSTEM IS ACTING UP, BSD OR PREMATURE SHUTDOWNS OR STARTUPS AND THE LIKE..AFTER A QUICK RUN WITH THE OS….FRIST THING REPLACE THE POWER SUPPPLY, YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH POWER TO RUN THESE THINGS, EVEN BACK THEN AND EVEN MORE SO TODAY… THE MORE, THE MERRY.

        • #2484161

          WDUPCF-Actually I wrote a piece on power supply

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well michael you seem to want to know evertything part 4

          I think that the power supply is one of the most important parts of a PC.
          http://www.epinions.com/content_217737694852
          I use at a minimum 400 watts-I also make sure I get a quality power supply.
          Mike

        • #2484079

          well michael you seem to know evertything vol 5

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to WDUPCF-Actually I wrote a piece on power supply

          on power supplies.I agree with you entirely.
          Have you ever tried to repair a broken power supply??.
          i have had some go down & come back on after a while.Just joking on “”well michael etc vo 5 series.
          ta mick
          merry xmas

        • #2484078

          well michael you seem to know evertything vol 5

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to WDUPCF-Actually I wrote a piece on power supply

          on power supplies.I agree with you entirely.
          Have you ever tried to repair a broken power supply??.
          i have had some go down & come back on after a while.
          Just joking on “”well michael etc vol 5 series.
          ta mick
          merry xmas

        • #2484072
          Avatar photo

          Well Michael I have to agree with you on that one

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to WDUPCF-Actually I wrote a piece on power supply

          Though personally I tend to use Antec PS mostly and I’ve had excellent service out of them with only one failure through bad manufacture.

          I’ve actually seen the results of a tree falling in a storm onto the overhead power lines and bringing the 33 KV lines into contact with the domestic 240 V lines and while the PS literally exploded the computer worked perfectly for the next 5 years till it was removed from service.

          In special cases I use the Zalman fanless cases and I’ve had brilliant success with them as the computers which live in a dusty environment have continued to work without a problem when for these units they are expected only to live for the life of a job and sometimes on the bigger jobs they will go through several computers that control the Laser Sighting equipment around earthworks. Without any fans and the entire case being a heat sink they are brilliant and I’ve yet to have one fail in use but so far they have only been in use for about 2.5 years. Prior to that a 6 month life was considered as excellent. Probably not good for my bank balance because I’m not supplying the same number of machines but the customers sure are happy.

          I also like decent cases as some of the cheap ones are really nasty to deal with and bend out of shape too easily so I stick to the better cases as well.

          But the best one that I’ve seen was a Insurance Job where I had to look at a dead Server which was totally dead, well that’s all that the insurance company told me and that the unit was under 2 weeks old and the builder was claiming that it had suffered a lighting strike. What I found was an unbranded PS claiming to be 400W attempting to drive a Dual Xeon M’Board and all the peripherals that accompany a high end server. In this case the Power Supply had failed totally and allowed mains power into the case then out across the network destroying everything connected to the LAN.

          That one was only settled last year by the builders insurance company as there where thousands of $ involved and the builder had gone broke in the mean time. When I rang my client the Insurance Company with the cause of the destruction I was then asked to go On Sits and do a full damage report of the entire system. What a waste that was they saved maybe $25.00 on a cheap PS to cost them Thousands of $ in damages and then even more in lost production. Seems like False Economy to me but the builder is not in business any more so I suppose that’s one less cowboy out there on the streets.

          Col

        • #2483925

          gsaravin-I don’t know everything about electronics

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to WDUPCF-Actually I wrote a piece on power supply

          But after 40+ years in electronics I do know a little bit. I’m still learning. I know quality electronics when I see it. I have even designed and built my own electronics projects. From speaker enclosures to stereo amplifiers. Even a power supply or 2.
          Mike

        • #2483846

          TO MICHEAL

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to WDUPCF-Actually I wrote a piece on power supply

          FRIST OF I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THAT ARTICLE, GOOD READ AND I WILL CHECK INTO ULTRA POWER SUPPLIES FOR MY COMPANY. LIKE YOURSELF I TOO WANT Quality.TOO.RIGHT NOW I USE OCZ AND ANTECH IN MY HI-END MACHINES….AND REMEMBER ALSO, NOT EVERYONE CAN AFFORD THESES DESPITE THE FACT, NO MATTER WHAT I TELL THEM, THAT’S THERE CHOICE TOO.

          SECOND, NO INSTULT INTENDED…OR IS OK IF IT ONLY COMES FROM FROM MICK, ABOUT THE DOG comment STUFF.

          THIRD…IF YOU HAD READ ANY OTHER POST AND REMEMBERED, I HAD ALREADY SAID BY no MEANS I KNOW EVERYTHING AND NEVER WILL, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, SO THERE NO GODS HERE THAT FOR SURE…LOL

          FOUTH. WHAT’S WITH THIS PROOF THING YOU GOT GOING ON, WITH YOUSELF, PROOF FOR WHAT?, THE PEOPLE I DEAL WITH AT MY END, YOU WANT ADRESSES AND PHONE NUBMBERS TOO, I’M SURE THEY WILL BE INTESTED IN HANDING THEM OUT TO YOU MICHEAL, LIKE ALL YOU CONTACKS WOULD BE IN GIVING THEIRS TO ME. I DONT HAVE PROOF FROM YOU SAID ABOUT THE POWER SUPPLY, BUT I HAVE TO TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT TOO RIGHT AND I CAN ALSO READ TOO….THE SPECKS AND KNOW I DONT NEED ONE ON MY DESK, TO KNOW THERE ONE HELL OF A NICE POWER SUPPLY.

          AND YA I ADMIT I WAS A BIT OUT OF LINE, THEN SO WAS JUST ABOUT EVERYONE IN HERE TOO, TO SOME DEGREE ALSO,EXCHANGING INSULTS WITH EACH OTHER, EVEN BEFORE I SHOWED UP.. REREAD THERE POSTS AGAIN, YOU’LL FIND LOTS… MUST BE THE WINTER BLUES, PLUS THE FACT MY DAD IS DYING OF CANCER RIGHT NOW,SOME CHRISTMAS FOR ME AND MY FAMILY AND HIM, YOU WANT ME TO SEND YOU HIS MEDICTAL CHARTS TO PROVE THAT TOO YOU TOO.

          I TRY TO BREAK UP THE TENSION WITH A SENCE OF HURMOR, I NEEED THAT TOO. BASE ON WHAT WASAND WENT DOWN IN HERE, MY I SUGGEST YOU TRY AND GET ONE TOO, AND READ BETWEEN THE LINES, IT SURE AS HELL MADE MICK LAUGH AND HE TOOK THE BRUNT OF IT HEAD ON, KUDOO’S MICK AND DIDN’T HAVE A HISSY FIT. I WAS MAKING FUN OF A SITUTION THAT REALLY, NO ONE HAS CONTROLL OVER ANYWAYS IN HERE
          ..VISTA…TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT…THEY STILL BUILD CRAP CARS AND HOMES TOO AND PEOPLE STILL BUY THEM, RIGHT, THE HUMAN RACE HAS BEEN FROM THE GET GO, BUILT ON THE Consumption. MODEL, Principal, THAT SHOULD TELL YA RIGHT THERE WERE NO GODS, GOOD OR BAD WERE RIGHT UP TO OUR NECKS IN IT NOW AND NO ONE OR NO SWITCH IS GOING TO JUST TURN IT OFF…WE STOP THAT NOW, THEN THIS PLANET WILL HAVE REAL PROBLEMS..UNLESS WE NUKE OUR ASS-ES RIGHT OFF THE PLANET…OR YOU CAN JUST PRAY OR BLAME GOD, LOT MORE EASY..DONT CHANGE A DAM THING REALLY, EITHER, WE ALL GET UP AND JUST MARCH ON TO FEED OURSELFS AND CONSUME AND OF COURSE A FEW FOSTERS TOO TO GET THROUGH THE DAY..LOL. 🙂

        • #2485513

          to WDUOCF-if you have read gsaravin posts

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to WDUPCF-Actually I wrote a piece on power supply

          You will see that he does a lot of cut and paste. He keeps saying Vista is crap and this is at a time I had the current build- which by the way was working without problems for me.
          First he claims hehas tested all versions on various hardware and Vista is crap. I and others asked what build numbers he tested-which henever told us-then he tried the cut and paste of parts articles that supported his position(which if he gave url-I/others wereable to shoot down)-then he did it without urls.
          This went on quite a few posts-then all of a sudden he says he tested the source code. But how can he get all of the source code as only a few trusted MS employees would have acess. MS would guard that source code very heavlly. The chances of him having source code is 1 in a billion shot.
          As far as insulting any one-gsaravin has done this throughout the posting.
          Mike

        • #2484082

          right on i’ts christmas & spread it on!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well michael you seem to want to know evertything part 4

          I have to agree that ms has got it all sown up like big macs at maccars,In the end ms wins & us poor suckers lose!!
          But what do we say to michael who want’s to know everything vol 699,part 420,sub part350.
          If michael were God which spells dog backwards then he would know everything!!!
          merry xmas
          mick

        • #2483957

          TO MICK

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to right on i’ts christmas & spread it on!

          Yaa, I think being a Dog God, God Dog would be really, Ruff, on anyone..lol

          Also Mick….in one sence when you think about it and look from a different angle, we all win too, as long as they contine to strive for perfection at one end of spectum, be it OS’S, hardware, power supplies and the like, it’s the freedom of choice we take for granted, or is limited, no matter who makes it or domiates it, like on a personal level, when it comes to our choices and of course everyones pocket book at all levels, out side are work place, were we have a bit more controll in making our choices, were as. at the work place, if you dont controll it, then someone else will, base on their calls, good , bad, or indiffrent, plus as we all know there will be others out there to try to undo it, at all levels too, with cost cutting measures and sometimes plain old stupidy. to save a buck and make the world go round.

          Ones that are some what poorer, which are the majority, can at least for the frist time have something too, over all or get started with something that resembles a computer in working order untill it gives out in less than a year and there back getting other one… it’s those ones in that sence who keep people like us in busniess, more so too at my end in the retail home desktop arena..which is totaly insane, were pricing can go from $299 to $8000 and people attitues to match it too, only backwards in a lot of cases and exspections when they go to purchase.

          The 4 most, HI, I got no brain, or clue what so ever and more stupid than a bag of nails questions I get over and over, are?

          1. how long do you think this computer will last, I’m just going to use it to surff the net and do some word processing.

          2. I was told by another place, if I put more ram in it,….it will it last longer.

          3. Can I play my dvd movies on a cd burner, I dont want to spend a whole lot of money, then comes the old blame a. friend of mine routine, said you could.

          Lets see , a LG 18X DVD DUAL LAYER BURNER ALL FORMATS AND PLAYES MOVIES TOO, FOR A RIP MY BANK ACCOUNT OUT AND BANKRUP ME PRICE of $42.00 WITH TAX…O0HHH ,IS THAT ALL, I’LL TAKE ONE THEN.

          4. and 2 kickers, I only recived ONLY once thks and both from a woman….go figure.

          I dont think I could use a faster video card for my games, because I wouldn’t be able to keep up with them after that, so I’ll keep the one I have now, it works fine for me at the speed i’m at now.

          I have all these little CUTE little furry stick on animals and I dont see any monitors her big enought to hold them all…..you got to be kidding me lady….she wasn’t, lucky for me she went elsewhere.

          more offten than not, i find the ones who can at lease afford it are the ones who think a $299 system should run like a $8000 one, these are the adults by the way…and then you get the kids..from 7-12

          dont even ask me what gos through my head at that point, when their parents let them lose.

          lol

        • #2483894

          If anyone thinks their GOD it’s you

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to right on i’ts christmas & spread it on!

          Your the one that says he knows it all and has it all. Anyone argues with you – you insult and never give any proof of what you say.
          Yes I’m now insulting you, just like you did me.

          Merry Christmas
          Mike

        • #2483880

          This I sure agree with

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to right on i’ts christmas & spread it on!

          WDUPCF said that at the very least MS must strive to produce a good product if they desire to stay in business—competition is good for the market place certainly.

    • #2502843

      Vista authentication issues

      by lasersteel ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Looks like Microsoft are at it again with authentication. This will make life interesting as you need to register within 30 days or the lights go out according to this web link http://www.pcprofile.com/Hasta_La_Vista.pdf

      • #2502610

        your spot on the money

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Vista authentication issues

        definitely right ms has ulterior motives.
        ta mick

        • #2502555

          Yep their ulterior motive

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to your spot on the money

          Is protecting their product.
          Mike

        • #2501377

          yep they are doing it better all the time

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Yep their ulterior motive

          If they can save themselves from piracy why not!
          After all it’s their product.
          ta mick

        • #2501318
          Avatar photo

          What a Crock of $h1t !!!!!!!!!!!!

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to yep they are doing it better all the time

          At the pre release of Vista & Office 2007 the M$ representatives claimed that 30% of all M$ software in AU was pirate stuff and to justify this they trotted out a study that they had done with downloading software without allowing WGA to do it’s thing and authentic the software as genuine. The only trouble is that each time you downloaded something it took ages for the process to go through its steps so it was faster to not bother to prove that you had genuine software and just download it, which is exactly what I did all the time with every bit of M$ Product that I have here which is all beyond doubt 100% Genuine or if it’s not M$ is selling Pirate Software themselves which is entirely possible.

          The proper outcome to draw from their study was that 30% of their customers couldn’t be bothered with going through the steps and wasting their time. Some of that 30% may have been Pirate but I can guarantee than the majority wasn’t and when I asked how much less traffic have you got since you made WGA Mandatory they had no answer as no one has bothered to even consider that their actions where self perpetuating and giving a skewed outcome.

          As it stands currently if you buy M$ Software in Singapore and import it into AU it’s considered as Pirate even though it made by M$ and supported by M$ Singapore where their Phone in Station is.

          What I’m confused about is how can Genuine M$ product in one part of the world be considered as Pirate in another part of the world. The sellers who are in all cases M$ know that they are selling for export and are more than willing to sell the product and then another devision of M$ comes in and starts Legal Action against the companies who legally bough Genuine M$ Software and imported it perfectly legally into AU but apparently while M$ is willing to sell and allow the importation they don’t like the idea of actually selling the product that these companies have paid for as a reduced rate per unit.

          The entire thing is nothing more than a money grubbing exercises and stinks and while I’m not affected buy this mess personally when I read the last Enforcement Alert I burst out laughing at the stupidity of M$ actions.

          Col

        • #2501664

          It is their product,

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to yep they are doing it better all the time

          that is right and they have made more than enough money off of it so why be always worrying about pirates and the like…only God and the oil companies have more money–it is ridiculous. How rich does any corp have to be?…..I would have to laugh to find out that this holy grail called “source code” did get out…..quite funny, that would be!

      • #2502556

        Actually it’s activation-not registration

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to Vista authentication issues

        I for one donot blame MS for this. Too many people think if a product is software it should be free. Like any busness MS want’s to protect their product. For this I donot blame them.
        Plus it only reduces functionality. So all that you have to do is activate.
        Mike

        • #2501372

          well your right, there it was only a matter of time

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Actually it’s activation-not registration

          coupled with the right op system it was just
          right to apply strict activation.So they are virtually ahead but for how long is anyones guess.They have recently hacked vista but they won’t receive updates for it.
          Ms by remaining a step ahead is able to maintain a tighter control.
          ta mick

      • #2501381

        yep that is the sickening thing

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Vista authentication issues

        have you tried registering by phone when internet fails it is fun repeating slabs of digits i’m sure ,missing a few & having to repeat over again.
        ta mick

        • #2501341

          Well being a beta tester I know I’ve done it a few

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to yep that is the sickening thing

          hundreds of times(more than you have) just this year. It takes me less than 10 minutes to re-activate over the phone.It does not bother me a bit to do it.
          Mike

        • #2501307
          Avatar photo

          While not related to Vista I find this tiresome

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Well being a beta tester I know I’ve done it a few

          To say the least. On the very few domestic installs that I work on I’ll get things like a HP Box loaded with XP Pro and have to activate over the phone and every time I get an operator and they seem to think that HP or whoever is selling Pirate M$ software [b]As If[/b]

          This never happens with White Boxes but on my personal Test Rig where I would regularly try out new hardware I would be reactivating it several times a week as I tested new hardware as it became available. It didn’t matter that it was always returned to it’s original configuration XP insisted that it be reactivated all the time. The crunch came when after adding 6 SCSI HDD to my personal Workstation I was accused of Pirating M$ Software all of the 17 products that needed reactivation because I had placed a 3 Pair Raid Array in the workstation. Seems that they wanted me to buy new software just because I had added 18K worth of product to my own hardware.

          I constantly use other software that requires activation and I’ve never had the problems that I’ve had with M$ using the software or activating it Corel who require activation on their products don’t give people the trouble that M$ does and nore does anyone else which is good considering just how unreliable Windows actually is as it will regularly fall over requiring either a Rescue Install or a Reload which is my preferred option when I get a Windows problem that stops it booting. I’ve never fully trusted any M$ product to repair itself or Upgrade itself and I’ve always found a clean install works better and for longer than a repair or upgrade.

          As late as Yesterday I got a phone call from one of my clients that Windows had some missing components that where necessary for it’s operation. I sent him an E-Mail with the Repair instructions for XP Pro so hopefully he’s got it working properly but I’m not so sure how he’ll deal with the Activation Centre if they accuse him of stealing their Software Being a QC he’ll most likely be so peeved off that he’ll start legal action against M$ and it’s workers for Libel or something like that.

          While I’ll keep a few Vista Boxes running here they are not going to be my main work platforms as they just don’t do the job well enough for my needs, I’m moving all my Mission Critical stuff away from M$ products and onto Open Source so I don’t have o deal with M$ personally for my home computers.

          If their Activation Centre was closer it would have been flattened by me driving a Super Dozer through it and levelling it a long time ago. I find them that painful to deal with and have repeatedly told the M$ People so. I’m a M$ Partner and I feel that way so I’m not sure how Joe Public feels and I’m just thankful that I generally don’t deal with them as I couldn’t bite my tongue when they come complaining.

          I don’t like being accused of Stealing particularly when I’m doing nothing wrong and as I’m fairly mild and forgiving with a special phone number to ring for Partners I really can understand just why so many members of the general public are so Pissed off with M$.

          Col

        • #2502896

          i have met heaps of partners at ms meetins & they express the utmost disgus

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to While not related to Vista I find this tiresome

          with the way things are transpiring at ms.They have virtually taken the view they may opt for another system like open source.
          As far as suing ms they have a list a mile long.
          ta mick

        • #2501719

          to mike you must be one of the most dedicated testers

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well being a beta tester I know I’ve done it a few

          ms has had over the years.All the hardwork you people put in when a new system comes about & i’ts continous feedback that helps ms immensly.I suppose it helps to make a better product, we all hope so in the end.
          mick

        • #2483863

          gsaravin No I just like working with new tech

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to to mike you must be one of the most dedicated testers

          I get to see the latest os MS is developing and help get it better for everyone. On better product- we helped with both XP and the SP packs and the update site.
          Mike

      • #2483836

        well to michael & his god bit vol10 sub part 5

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Vista authentication issues

        I have to agree with you that everyone can be their own god to some extent.Also i agree with wdcp that As we are dealing with ms & it’s a monopoly, pretty soon they are going to be beaten by other people like google etc who will overtake them if ms doesn’t meet the cosumers expectations.Also
        a lot of cosumers don’t like parting with
        $000.So eventually there will be greater choice in the market.
        ta mick

        • #2483833

          TO MICK PART 1 AREA 51..LOL

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to well to michael & his god bit vol10 sub part 5

          I DECIDED TO CHANGE THE HEADER AND TAKE THE PRESSURE OFF OF MICHEAL…LOL

          YEP, YOU GOT THAT RIGHT.MICK.IT WILL TAKE AWHILE AND OF COURSE IT WILL BE HARD FOR A LOT TO BREAK OLD HABITS..OR TAKING A WACK AT ONES 90% OF MARKET SHARE, WILL NOT HAPPEN OVER NIGHT..AND NO DOUBT SOME WILL FAIL..IN THE END….CHANGE FOR THE SAKE OF CHANGE,

          DONT KNOW IF I WILL LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO SEE IT HAPPEN, BUT IF EVER MCDONALDS DECIDE’S TO GO A ROUND WITH THERE OS..I THINK WE ALL BETTER FIND ANOTHER PLANET TO LIVE ON..I DONT WANT NO GOLDEN ARCHES AS MY DESKTOP BACK GROUND..AND ALL MY ICONS TO LOOK LIKE FOOD ITEMS WITH A COKE KEYBOARD AND MOUSE…LOL

        • #2485414

          HEY MICHEAL

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to TO MICK PART 1 AREA 51..LOL

          I AGREE WITH YOU ON ALL COUNTS…MAY I SUGGEST FLIM-FAM-MAN, WHICH MIGHT BETTER DESCRIBE ONES INTENTIONS or MOTIVES AND MAYBE THE Persona, MIGHT EXSPLAIN A LOT more TOO.
          One who plays.

        • #2483660

          talking about maccars i heard the funniest thing

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to HEY MICHEAL

          i don’t know if it’s true but maccars might be proposing to introduce with doing away with cashiers that take your orders.Instead they will simply have a microphone out there & you place your order & it will be instantly beamed by sattelite to an indian
          call centre who will then beam it back to the kitchen speakers.This will apparently save maccars heaps in $$$$.This has put a lot of customers off &maccars will loose custom if it happens.I’ll have fries with that!!
          goodness gracious me.
          ta mick

        • #2483657

          what do people think of quad cores.i think at the moment

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to talking about maccars i heard the funniest thing

          it would appeal to a minority.Software would need to be optimised for multicore chips.Pricing needs to be looked at before it becomes attractive for the average user.
          I’m pretty sure michael is just waiting to plonk his vista ultimate into a quad core pc.
          ta mick

        • #2483629

          yea who wouldn’t

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to what do people think of quad cores.i think at the moment

          But as money is a limiting factor for me-I won’t. I have told you before I’m retired and I do not have a lot of money.Dual core will do for me.Oh and Vista can use 2 dual core cpu’s if you have the money for it.
          I only have one free copy of Ultimate but I will be buying Vista Home Premium or the upgrade version of Ultimate for another computer and may even buy Home Premium for my granddaughters in the future.
          Mike

        • #2483616
          Avatar photo

          Well the price is about right

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to what do people think of quad cores.i think at the moment

          I remember paying $1,200.00 AU for a 90 MHZ Pentium 90 a long while ago and when I had upgraded a bit I couldn’t give away that P 90. I think that it’s still here actually.

          What impressed me was the number of Pentium Extremes that where ordered at their release a Dual Core with HTT and the Grey Set buying up big on the things to edit video and the like for the grandkids. I got one latter when the price became more reasonable and while there’s not a decent M$ OS to run on it Debian works a treat and runs beautifully.

          Actually that’s the first single CPU computer that I’ve had in a long time now as everything previously from the Pentium Days has all been either Dual or Quad CPU’s and most are still running like a charm. Though I have to replace the PS in the Quad 200 MMX Pentium as it blew the other day. But it was a lovely M’Board with 4 sticks of 72 Pin RAM per CPU everything since has just had the one bank of RAM for sharing to all the CPU’s.

          I started using XP Pro on a Gigabyte GA6- BSDU M’Board and it worked very well with a pair of 550 P3’s and a GIG of RAM. For it’s day it had everything On Board SCSI 3 channels so it could support 22 SCSI Devices and had an AGP 2 Slot with 6 PCI and 2 IDE though one PCI & IDE was shared but it never proved a problem.

          Currently when I get the time I’ve got a Dual Xeon unit to assemble and it’s one of the first Intel M’Boards that I’ve ever used and I’m not overly impressed with it probably why I haven’t really tried to put it together and have been running it open and unassembled when I’ve been running Vista Tests on it. Both Debian and SUSE 64 work much better than either Windows XP Pro or Vista both the 32 & 64 Bit versions though.

          I generally have Debian on my NB and a couple of spare HDD’s that get swapped around if I need a different OS for something but I find that I can do most things with Debian and just to screw with peoples minds I have ported IE6 to Debian so most people who look at the NB think that it’s running some form of Development Windows which just works without a problem.

          Maybe after the first round of price drops about 6 months after the Quad Cores are available I’ll look at getting one to have a play with.But I can’t see myself rushing out in the meantime and buying one for myself though if customers want them there will be no problems there.

          Col

        • #2483480

          well michael home user or not everyone should havesome right to sample the

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to what do people think of quad cores.i think at the moment

          benefits of an os system.But it seems to be the basic user will miss out on the visual features of vista & other benefits.You basically get what you pay for.So if one wants more complex features you have to pay for them.I would say ms has arsed about with their system where as mac o’s system
          is different in that you get all the features & you don’t need to register.
          So all in all in the way they are doing it is to squease as much as they can.
          people are not stupid you know they’ll find out that they’ve been had.
          ta mick

        • #2484500

          True people not stupid and everyone knows you get what you pay for

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to what do people think of quad cores.i think at the moment

          gsaravin I will let you on a little secret(of course it’s not so secret as it’s already on the web)but if you have a VIsta installation (full) dvd-if you when asked to put in product key-you instead just press next button-you can choose to try any version but you can only use for 30 days before you have to activate-at times it will ask about activating but not too often.
          You know gsaravin-MS is damned if they do and damned if they don’t-in this they are giving the public a choice of how much they want to spend.
          The most popular versions in my opinion will be Home Premium and Ultimate with Home Premium the most sold.
          Mike

        • #2484473
          Avatar photo

          Actually Michael M$ is just the latest in a very long line

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to what do people think of quad cores.i think at the moment

          But this time the customer doesn’t actually own anything they just buy the right to use which many find confusing as they never read the EULA so they don’t understand things.

          Then you get the Legal Types who read all the [b]Fine Print[/b] and then place their own interpretation on the way that they think things should go.

          Kind of reminds me of the good old days at IBM when I was working Mainframes and the PC was a novelty. Because I was the most Senior Person there I got called into the PC side of the business where a customer had shot a then new computer with 2 barrels of a 12 gauge because the software didn’t work properly. The correct way to read that is he couldn’t get the software to do what he wanted and he was insisting that this was covered by the Warranty as it was unusable and faulty.

          Well if I had of followed the letter of the Guarantee I would have shoved him out the door with his dead computer a 286 I think but as I didn’t work with those things I’m not overly sure. Instead I replaced the unit on condition that he attend classes that I had organised free for him so he could learn to use the provided software must have been M$ something but as I say I didn’t work with PC’s back in those days so I wasn’t overly interested I just didn’t want him coming back and shooting the Crap out of the place or worse still injuring one of the staff. Personally I really didn’t give a [b]Rats[/b] about the building but the staff was a different matter. If he had of taken out several of the PC Staff I would have had to loan some of my Mainframe staff till the problem was fixed and I couldn’t afford to loose any staff as I had them all working to peek efficiency.

          If I remember correctly the entire package that I arranged for him cost us less than 15K which was chicken feed to me and my team as we worked with the [b]Heavy Iron[/b] and 15K was really less than the labour involved in setting up a new installation so I didn’t think twice about it.

          The guy in charge of the PC side an Accountant didn’t quite see things as I did and just had to have a go at me for what I had done and as he wasn’t there I asked where he had gone because I shouldn’t have to had dealt with that incident and I was thinking of charging his department for my time. After all I did waste well over an hour organising things with people who could deal with this guy and not just dump him on the most junior member of staff available.

          Did I need to do as I did? No! Did I do the right thing? Yes!

          However every person that this guy spoke to insisted that they speak to me so I was constantly getting called over to the Play Toy section of the business and away from my real work which aggravated the Section Manager even more, and it continued even after he had complained to higher management about my actions on several occasions. Apparently I was overriding his department and having my way with his department and I really didn’t want anything at all to do with things there I just had to deal with the people who asked for me and then pass them onto someone who could help them as at that time I didn’t have a clue about PC’s and to be honest I wasn’t interested. About the only good thing out of that entire mess was I got to know the staff there as generally speaking we didn’t see much of each other.

          Then one day another person came in asking for me I had to explain to him that I just had to go now as I was needed On Site for a Mainframe Problem and I was hit with you fix Mainframes, Can you come around to my place next week and look at my setup? That involved looking at what he had installed and what he was attempting to do and supply new hardware for the entire place. Great way to keep the Sales people of the Mainframes happy that was. 😀

          And then I started to get calls from people who had dealt with the guy who I supplied a new mainframe for so I was not only running the Service & Installation Side but selling the bloody things as well.

          That entire job was a [b]Dammed if You Do and Dammed If You Don’t Position to be in.[/b] You just tried to do the right thing and hope for the best.

          I found that I never had a problem if I attempted to keep the [b]Customer Satisfied[/b] it didn’t matter if there where problems provided you looked as if you where genuinely trying to help solve a problem the customer was happy. Unfortunately this is something that M$ fails miserably in as they treat their customers as thieves who must prove their honesty first before they will even start to offer any help. Recently I had a WGA problem with a copy of XP Pro and it was insisting that this was a Pirate Copy of XP and wouldn’t let you into the system to do anything after needing to prove to M$ Technical that this was really a real copy of XP they then suggested that I do a repair install and then 2 days latter they would ring me back at which time I had to log onto their system and again verify that I did truly have a genuine copy of XP. It didn’t matter that I’m a Partner and it didn’t matter that I not only sold this thing but built it and could tell them exactly why this had happened and I only wanted a fix to prevent it happening again I was treated like a criminal first and had to prove my innocence and then just to top things off their fix was not to turn off Auto Updates on a system that is now very rarely used as it was the business system for a now dead man and it was only ever turned on occasionally when the Accountant wanted some information to do with the estate and I have to keep this one running for the next 4 years from next January maybe June just in case the Tax Man wants to do an Audit. It’s now on a 5 hour per month Dial Up connection instead of the Broadband connection that it was on and the Auto Updates are crippling the ability to receive incoming E-Mails on the rare occasions when it’s actually turned on. That’s about once every 3 months unless I get there to update the AV & Windows more often otherwise it’s only turned on maybe once in a Blue Moon. The real problem isn’t M$ products but their Attitude to their customers, that is what puts most people off them very quickly.

          What makes things better is Currently I’m not sure how the Backward License is going to be applied if needed provided that I keep copies of the current Volume License Stuff I can’t see a problem for a long time to come but that’s exactly what you are not supposed to do so I’m not really sure how things will work out.

          Col

        • #2484392

          well michael another year has gone & we ain’t getting any younger

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to HEY MICHEAL

          well michael heres another cut & paste you love so well.It merely proves a point.
          Little reason to rush into Vista upgrade
          Published December 25, 2006.by Jeff Zbar
          Sun Sentinel,south florida

          Duane Merson has heard the hype.

          He’s seen the articles, read the blogs and listened to IT peers talking about Windows Vista, Microsoft’s latest version of its operating system.

          So, when employees at TEKgroup International ask Merson when they’re going to see the system on the company’s desktop and laptop computers, his answer is simple.

          “It’s never, `Soon,'” said Merson, IT director at the Fort Lauderdale online public relations firm. “There’s no justification for it from a business perspective.”

          The long-delayed program is being heralded by Microsoft as providing vastly improved entertainment options, search and exploration, security and performance, organization and document handling, and general simplicity and ease of use.

          Yet many IT professionals and small business owners are not quick to jump on the bandwagon.

          Merson has several reasons not to upgrade to Vista, at least in the near term. First, he didn’t budget for the upgrade, which would cost thousands of dollars for the 30 computers in the company’s three offices. Also, Vista could force hardware and system upgrades, including 15GB of available hard drive space, up to 1GB of system memory, and from a 800 MHz to 1 GHz 32-bit 32- or 64-bit processor, among other requirements, according to Microsoft’s site.

          In fact, about half of PCs currently in use in North American businesses meet the minimum requirements to run Vista, according to a study from Softchoice Corp. For its part, Microsoft has noted that most PCs purchased in the past two years should be capable of running Vista, including its graphical capabilities.

          Those looking for a new computer to run Vista should look for “Windows Vista Capable PC” on the packaging.

          Merson looks for several conditions before upgrading. He wants assurances that his critical development tools and programs are compatible and will operate with the operating system.

          “Is somebody’s third-party plug-in going to work in the new environment?” he said. “Developers are afraid to slow down to try something new until somebody else has told them it’s going to work.”

          Will the new version sap employee time or resources? Install a new, unproven or unstable system or application and workers could be idle as glitches are corrected or people slowly learn how to navigate the application. Also, some reports note that Vista may require more battery power from laptop computers than currently needed by XP.

          Merson’s key question before any upgrade: Does the application deliver features his current version does not?

          “Vista is not providing anything for us that XP doesn’t provide from an operating system,” said Merson, who’s testing beta versions of Vista and Office 2007 on laptop at home.

          Robert Gaynor agrees. After all, there’s no rush. Microsoft typically supports previous versions of its software several years after newer versions have been released, he said.

          “I would say that if you are buying a new computer, and Vista is available, get it,” he said. “But make sure you also get a lot of memory.”
          well why not indeed!

          ta mick

        • #2483663

          you never knowms might do it,lates news is out and….

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to TO MICK PART 1 AREA 51..LOL

          Submitted by roto31 on Sun, 2006-12-17 06:44.

          There’s a big question mark on ms how long can they keep up with the hackers who avoid validation of their products. If those of you who have been following the releases of Vista from its initial beta to the current corporate release of Enterprise and Business we knew there would be something MS did to attempt to stop piracy.
          Well there has been the attempt with the Key Management Server which would allow a business to activate all the copies of Vista on their network using a key management server that would reactivate their machines every 180 days to discourage people from bringing in their home machines.
          Well now the table have been turned on MS again just as they had been when WGA was started by MS and the hackers went to work. Some enterprising hacker has gotten a hold of the KMS and found a way to create a virtual server using the KMS and VM Ware. It’s almost as if MS shot themselves in the foot with this now or even when it was supposed to be released in 07′.. Supposedly this will only work with the Business and Enterprise editions of Vista. Ultimate and the Home editions still need WGA from MS.
          To me in my humble opinion this proves that MS charges way too much for an operating system. Quite honestly I believe 400 dollars for an OS is too much if you buy the Ultimate version. The Basic version is 150 dollars but will only do basic things so, no gaming for you gamers out there. To get that you would probably have to go to the next version which is over 200 dollars. and Business editions. This also makes Linux an option for those who do not want to buy Vista. . Will MS close the hole that has been busted open? Or will as in previous versions of Windows the hole will remain open and MS uses stop gaps like WGA or a KMS of their own.
          ta mick

        • #2483625

          As usual you post old news

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to you never knowms might do it,lates news is out and….

          MS has already fixed that hole. As far as charging too much-VIsta Home premium is about $10 less than I paid for Windows 95. Plus it is 100x more stable-more capabilities-better security.
          As for Ultimate-not everyone needs or wants all of the capabilities.
          Mike

        • #2483610
          Avatar photo

          But Michael a lot of people will want more that the Basic Vista Offers

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to As usual you post old news

          Granted I don’t do much Domestic work but I’ve never seen a copy of XP Home other than on a complete network sold by some idiot to a business with 25 workstations and absolutely no software involved except XP Home.

          Everything was returned as it was unsuitable for the work required.

          Even M$ own advertising seems to push people to the Pro version from the Home Version This is directly from one of M$ Advertising broacher’s that was handed out to potential customers before buying a new computer

          [i]Premium Security, mobility and high performance for their desktops:- Windows XP Professional is recommended.

          Premier mobile support to work remotely – anywhere, any time:- Windows XP Professional is recommended

          Network Domain support for a small business or home office:- Windows XP Professional is recommended.

          Greater security, including the ability to encrypt their files and folders, to protect business data:- Windows XP Professional is recommended.

          Simple resource-sharing and home networking:- Both Windows XP Professional and Windows XP Home are recommended.

          Instant messaging, Web browsing and E-Mail at home:- Both Windows XP Professional and Windows XP Home are recommended.[/i]

          I still have a few of these Marketing Handouts here and my Stored one so if you want a scanned image I can supply it but that’s directly from the hand out.

          Col

        • #2483546

          True but I’m essentually a home user

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to But Michael a lot of people will want more that the Basic Vista Offers

          If I’d got a free copy of Home Premium-I would have been satisfied. Vista as far as I can see that good.
          It is true Ultimate has more features but for the commun home user that will not use them, they are better served by Home Premium. Oh more than likely I will beta test the SP’s.
          Mike
          PS the prices I gave here is for USA

        • #2483483
          Avatar photo

          You’re Welcome Mate

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to But Michael a lot of people will want more that the Basic Vista Offers

          As I’ve finally gone over the edge and am now officially totally insane before I’m carted off to a padded cell may I take this chance to Wish you a [b]Very Merry Christmas & A Happy & Prosperous New Year.[/b]

          Yesterday on the 24 th at 11.23 I accepted a Job doing Medical Work again and I was only slightly Blackmailed into it as my Local GP has hit me with I either do their IT work or they don’t meet Accreditation and have to cut back so I’ve been elected to do the IT work for them as it’s now got way to hard for the owner to do and he wants to get back to doing medicine.

          So for Christmas Day I’m upgrading their Server to 2003 Premium adding another 10 CAL’s and God only knows what else a well as something about their AV product which I didn’t quite catch.

          They seem to think that for some reason I would have Professional Licensed Product sitting here over the Christmas break going to waste. I mean really to start to ask questions after 10.00 PM on Christmas Eve and expect the problems solved is way beyond the normal. Luckily I have a Trial version of 2003 ES available here so I can use that latter today and get the proper stuff on the 27th when one M$ Reseller is open. Well at least I can put the order in and get things started rolling. Now I wonder what’s going to happen on Boxing Day? Just provided I get to see the start of the Sydney Hobart I don’t really care even if I have to shove a Video Tuner into my NB and take it along to watch the start of the race I’ll be happy.

          And I started this business to get into Semi Retirement [b]What a Fool I Am!!!!![/b]

          Col

        • #2483479

          well hal good luck with your new job

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to you never knowms might do it,lates news is out and….

          I hope you don’t encounter any accounting problems or office 2007 problems.I hope it’s plain sailing pardon the pun.All the best for 2007 & i hope you are number 1 at tech republic because you deserve it.Your comments & guidance through other threads etc have been most informative.
          Ps i still regard that michael is the resident expert on power supplies even though he won’t admit it.!
          Well what could i say 2007 could be a big turning points as far as os systems & ms could make or break it for 2007.
          One way or another we’ll all experience the
          problems first hand.Good luck to one & all.
          ta mick

        • #2484486
          Avatar photo

          NOT ME OR MY TECHS :D :^0 :D :^0 :D :^0

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to well hal good luck with your new job

          We will not be supporting Vista in a Business environment till all the bugs are ironed out or at least till the majority of them are.

          We’ll be sticking with XP Pro for the time being and if necessary using XP Pro on a Backward License of Vista Ultimate. Until both My Staff and Myself are happy with the new OS and we see how the wind is blowing we will not be using it for quite some time as it is a cost that our customers can not afford to carry in their business.

          We treat every workstation as a [b]Mission Critical[/b] station and consider that if it breaks we are not doing a proper job and when that nasty Government Department Migrates to Vista we can drop them completely and I’ll have a bit more time to do my real work. Right at the moment they are talking about switching early in the new year so that will be the end of them for us though we’ll probably still be receiving payments for another 18 months for work already done. They want you there immediately when something goes wrong but don’t see the need to bother to pay for the service work that is performed. 😀

          Currently the Government’s IT Section is getting ready to migrate them over to Vista and then try to drop them like a [b]Hot Potato[/b] but they’ll have to find somewhere else to drop them on as this time I’m not getting caught out again. :^0

          Well it’s now 07.27 on the 25TH December and at 12.00 I’m due at the Doctors Surgery to start a migration on something that I’ve never seen before should at least prove interesting even if I have no idea of what it is I’m doing. 🙂

          Somehow I seem to think that my [b]Extended Hospital Stay From January 30 is going to be put off.[/b] I was so looking forward to being in the local Meat works suffering from [b]Information Overload[/b] and not having a single Windows computer anywhere in my sight just my Debian NB and WiFi Connection to allow me to look around slowly and see what’s happening with Vista. The original idea was once it’s stable and working properly on large LAN’s I could then get out and not be in the position of having to work out how to make something that I don’t know much about work properly. Currently I have a slight disagreement with the Senior Guy at M$ as he keeps telling me that his LAN is big and it’s only a 200 Work Station upper limit that to me is a small network but unfortunately he will not accept that there is anything bigger in use out in the real world and he hasn’t been able to come visit when we are working on one of the big ones seems that he’s too busy every time that we invite him out. :^0

          Unfortunately I don’t think that I’ll be able to get my GP to write the necessary forms out now. 🙁

          Col

        • #2484400

          well hal another year has gone by & it has gone pretty quickly

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to NOT ME OR MY TECHS :D :^0 :D :^0 :D :^0

          I wish you all the best for 2007.I share your sentiments unless there are a huge benefits to converting to vista i don’t think anyone is going to waste their money.If they have a good system like xp free from bugs why would you??.The government is crazy enough to adopt vista with all it’s problems. well let them as they have money to waste our money.
          I’m currently in Alice Springs enjoying my holiday with the family.They got internet access at one of the motels wher i’m staying.
          ta mick

        • #2486012

          More illegal copies XP in future

          by robspcfixerupper ·

          In reply to NOT ME OR MY TECHS :D :^0 :D :^0 :D :^0

          I’ve been testing Vista for a few months. All I can see in my clientelle’s future – XP copies. Gotta love those German teenagers. Vista’s still very buggy and will not work on older systems (pre 2003), or older software. If your new base system doesn’t cost at least $900 (desktop) and $1300 (laptop) Vista will give u issues. I’ve advised all friends, family coworkers, clients not to upgrade. I see Vista as a money maker. XP will be even more prevalent than it is now. Some brave PC users will go to Apple, to avoid the forcible upgrade to Vista.

        • #2485756

          in answer to rob for school

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to NOT ME OR MY TECHS :D :^0 :D :^0 :D :^0

          i have to agree that ms dismal failure to producea more reliable system when you got testers like michael singing ms praises,ms can’t loose.
          But my test results prove what a dismal failure vista is with ms ducking & weaving.the’ve been rewriting source code.They had us all fooled for a while.
          Well in response to Mr know it all :
          Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results
          Vista & to XP Professional Compared
          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.

          Happy new year to one & all
          ta mick

        • #2484518

          gsaravin according to the benchmarks you posted

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to NOT ME OR MY TECHS :D :^0 :D :^0 :D :^0

          I just took a closer look and it seems Vista in most cases(90%+)is faster than XP-with benchmarks smaller is better or have you not learned that.
          Mike

    • #2486217

      Sounds Like You Are…

      by mr_wizard ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Upon reading your post, I’m guessing you are one of the following: 1) – the content would lead me to believe you are a Windows-hating Mac user; 2)- the grammar, spelling, and word usage lead me to believe you are a Linux user still attending kindergarten.

      • #2486210

        thank you Mr Wizard but you are wrong!

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Sounds Like You Are…

        Why??Because my job description is i’m a windows systems programmer & a developer.I don’t hate ms as a matter of fact some of my best friends are from ms.I don’t hate anyone or anything.It’s the current twist of ms offering a host of features under longhorn & taking a long time to produce & under vista most of the features were dumped.
        In the mean time i have done tests to vista
        to evaluate it’s performance as far as comparing it to xp professional.I found out that xp was performing better.I found heaps wrong with vista & until ms fixes these problems then i will comtinue to call it crap.
        So mr wizard what testing have you done on vista????
        ta mick
        ps i don’t use mac or linux & i’m not illiterate as i have a phd!!!!!
        so stick that up your pipe & smoke it!!
        Mr wizard have a happy new year!

        • #2485871

          Speaking of Longhorn

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to thank you Mr Wizard but you are wrong!

          Whatever happened to this so-called wonderous system which never made it?

        • #2485763

          well original ideas & concepts had most of us fooled

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Speaking of Longhorn

          into thinking that we are going to get value for money& we are going to get this wonderfull system.Even the name vista was stolen along with the concepts from the mac/os system of which there are no comparisons.Agains’t my wishes but to satisfy mr know it all michael.Well i’ve had to release my test results to prove how wrong he is:
          Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results
          Vista & to XP Professional Compared
          cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
          cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
          cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
          cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
          cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
          cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
          cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
          cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
          graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
          graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
          graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
          graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
          graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
          graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
          graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
          graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
          memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
          memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
          memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
          memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
          memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
          disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
          disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
          disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
          Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
          cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
          2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
          memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
          disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
          cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
          3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.
          I have proven that vista is a total crap system!!.
          ta mick

        • #2500516

          gsaravin if anyone thinks they’re a know it all-IT”S you

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well original ideas & concepts had most of us fooled

          You keep posting here that you know it all ad infintem. Let’s see a few

          “you just jealous because i’m right
          You just rambling on I have thouroughly tested all versions & i have done cost benefit analysis.At least i havean informed
          opinion & i don’t make off the cuff comments.It’s now 28/11/06 & i’m still right vista is crap!!!
          ta mick ”

          “i know what’s happening at microsoft
          the long delay is that they are having major tchnical
          hurdles
          have recently tried all versions & i’m convinced that there are major problems in the source code.I would hasard to guess they dare not
          release vista just yet!Further to this as Hal haspointed out the major shortfall of the vista system is that it seems to be too bloated.There are not much drivers around,theres not much software around.For those of you who are asking
          my background is I’m masters in computer science i specialise design,analysis of projects using new operating systems.You name the system i’ve done it.So far i’ve tested all versions of vista
          & unless microsoft comes up with the goods ie if they can provide a water tight vessel(operating system) personally i don’t think too many people
          are ready to ditch their operating systems. ”
          GET OUT OF MY POSTING!!!
          GET GET OUT OF MY POSTING!!!OUT OF MY POSTING!!!GET OUT OF MY POSTING!!!
          GET OUT OF MY POSTING!!!
          GET OUT OF MY POSTING!!!
          i HOPE YOU GOT THAT! YOU INSULTIN PIECE OF SH..T ”

          Need I add more.
          Happy New Year
          Mike

        • #2484860

          well michael you said it SO get out of my posting

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gsaravin if anyone thinks they’re a know it all-IT”S you

          no actually just kidding if you got something to say say it.It may sound that i may feel superior, well really i’m not.You can see from your quotes that if someone is insulting me i’m not going to sit back & take it.
          But i think that given the situation with vista & ms this has really got on people’s goat with this that & other & we have to use their crap system.Precisely, do we just sit there & take it.
          Also if someone disagrees with me,I’ts not often that we agree & i don’t ask you to agree merely to state your opinion is enough.
          There is a saying that i’ll defend your right
          to say something even though it’s not in agreement with me.
          Hey mike i’m wishing you a happy new year
          so forget our differences of opinion.
          What are you doing on new years eve & new years day???
          ta mick

        • #2484812

          Hey you were the one insulting me

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well michael you said it SO get out of my posting

          You were the one calling me a know it all in fact you had done that 3 or 4 times. I have said I don’t know it all, I do know what I think is a better Operating System. You say Vista is crap-I say I use it everyday 24/7 with no problems. You say XP is faster than Vista-I don’t disagree-but I don’t see that it is slower or the differance is so small that I can not see it.
          Burning a recorded tv movie in XP or Vista X86 Ultimate is slower than in Vista Ultimate X64-oh and XP takes 2 1/2 hours-Vista X86 takes 1 1/2 hours but Ultimate X64 takes 30 minutes.

          What will I be doing New Years Eve and Day is upgrading my granddaughter’s pc-playing with them-recording tv movies(editing same)burning to dvd. Also probably surfing the net all in Vista.
          Mike

        • #2500724

          so with Vista

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to Speaking of Longhorn

          we are basically getting a system we have to buy but no performance by the numbers? This is supposed to be something I exchange XP for? I found the test results fascinating and they sure seem to make the Vista much overrated.

        • #2500604

          Wonderous?

          by paul.opensource ·

          In reply to Speaking of Longhorn

          Unless you are being facicous :), nothing microsoft has ever done has been wonderous. What is a wonder to me is how they have managed to stay in business. They have managed to capture one of the largest IT markets in the world by selling pure crap. If they were an automobile manufacturer, they would have been sued into oblivion for defective products. It is a wonder to me people simply accept window’s failings as “normal”, and keep buying microsoft products.

        • #2500563

          well paul the reason is simply they have the power

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Wonderous?

          of a monopoly.They have been able to exclude heck of a lot of competition & is currently trying to exclude even software that is designed to run on windows but is not certified by ms to run.
          Now that google & other software manufacturers have decided to stand up to ms.
          Who knows what the future will hold??
          There is no replacement for a bit of healthy competition.
          ta mick

    • #2485852

      Vista, reincarnation of Windows Me?

      by flashtube105 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I was at a Microsoft convention in Washington, DC, some time ago, where Microsoft was introducing this great home windows operating system (Windows Me) to a room full of 1500+ IT people. The introduction of this great O/S failed miserably. The rep had to unplug the computer in order to reboot it.
      Vista is nothing more than Windows Me reincarnated. I do not think the world wants anymore great O/S’s.

      • #2485767

        well i could tell you stories about win 98

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Vista, reincarnation of Windows Me?

        win 98 was admittedly really a reincarnation of win 95 with a few tweaks & a new feel icons,plug & play.Managed to fool most people to say they got value for money??
        in response to mr know it all michael i’ve had to release my test results of which i was holding off for my forfthcoming vista book:

        Vista & Xp professional compared:mops(milliopsecond)test results
        Vista & to XP Professional Compared
        cpu interger math 50 vista,61 xp,
        cpu floating point math 177 vista,202 xp,
        cpu find prime numbers 212 vista,248 xp,
        cpu-sse/3dnow!1440 vista,1465 xp,
        cpu compression vista 1520,1711 xp,
        cpu encryption 9.2 vista,11.4 xp,
        cpu image rotation vista 242,277 xp,
        cpu string sorting 1027 vista,1210 xp,
        graphics 2d lines 64 (32 bit)vista,86.1 xp,
        graphics 2d rectangles(32 bit) 34 vista,45.1 xp,
        graphics 2d shapes(32 bit)19.6 vista,24.1 xp,
        graphics-2d fonts & text(32 bit)65.2 vista,105 xp,
        graphics-2d-Gui(32 bit)109.6 vista,159.7 xp,
        graphics simple 3d(32bit)248.1 vista,284.3 xp,
        graphics medium 3d(32 bit)35.2 vista,52.1 xp,
        graphis complex 3d(32 bit) 5.3 vista,7.6 xp,
        memory allocate small block 677.4 vista,1226.3 xp,
        memory read cached1164 vista,1322.4 xp,
        memory read uncached 942.1,1187.5 xp,
        memory write 498 vista,625.8 xp,
        memory ram large227.3 vista,326.6 xp,
        disk sequential read(c: drive)32 .3 vista,34.1 xp,
        disk sequential write (c drive) 23 .1 vista,30.2 xp,
        disk random seek+rw(c)3.2 vista,2.15 xp,
        Cd read 0.04 vista,0.02 xp,
        cpu mark398.5 vista,438.7xp,
        2d graphics mark vista 194.8,278.3 xp,
        memory mark261.4 vista,348.7 xp,
        disk mark198.2 vista,236.8 xp,
        cd mark3.96 vista,1.10 xp
        3d graphics mark93.2 vista,108.5 xp.
        as you can see vista performance is crap!!!
        ta mick

        • #2485692

          About the only ones that will even see a differance

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well i could tell you stories about win 98

          Are gamers and then only when they are playing games-if then.
          Mike

        • #2485654
          Avatar photo

          Actually Michael I see some big differences

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to About the only ones that will even see a differance

          Between Vista & XP Pro.

          These are [b]Mission Critically Applications[/b] provided by Third Party Vendors which simply do not run on Vista.

          To me and my customers this is a [b]Big Issue[/b] that is not easily solved at the moment.

          Col

        • #2485632

          Lets start compiling a list of 3rd party apps that fail

          by lasersteel ·

          In reply to Actually Michael I see some big differences

          It would be useful to share this list of 3rd party applications that don’t mesh with Vista so that we can all pick up on the lessons learnt by others.

          If you have a 3rd party application that fails Vista then pass the details on to the guys at PCProfile http://www.pcprofile.com as they will then load it up to a web page at their website or if you don’t like that idea, then load it up here as a topic.

        • #2500750

          Why not indeed if we had that it would be very useful

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Lets start compiling a list of 3rd party apps that fail

          Lasersteel that’s an excellent idea but why not share any hiccups you’ve had or anyone else on these threads.anyone is quite welcome to go to http://www.pcprofile.com.
          Well i’m sick of holding off results & things at the risk of being personally threatened & what the heck the cat had to come out of the bag sooner than later!
          ta mick
          again don’t just let me tell you, find out for yourselves & for goodness speak out as tha’ts what these forums & threads are for.
          Ta Mick
          I wish you all a Happy & prosperous New Year!
          (ps drive safely)

        • #2485602

          Actually Hal I was just comenting on the benchmarks

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Actually Michael I see some big differences

          gsaravin posted.
          Sure there are and will be compatibilty issues. There were major issues going from win9x to Windows 2k to XP as there is from XP/2K to Vista. There are probably more than a few Mission Critical Applications that will be needed to be patched or re-written to work with Vista.
          Mike

        • #2500610

          HI ALL

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to Actually Hal I was just comenting on the benchmarks

          Hey….Remember, YK2.

          HAD TO LAUGH AT THAT ONE, every one freaking out who did’nt know better, which was most of the planet, GRAB FOOD AND WATER, look at their clocks, the sky is falling, the sky is falling…….

          looked outsided…nope, it still out there and so will Vista, it’s time for that too…so let the patching begin…..same old stuff really…different day….that’s all.

          Now if only humanity could come out with the perfect OS,

          THIS WAY, WE CAN ALL, PUT DOWN ARE WEAPONS, STOP ALL WARS AND SAVE ALL THE ANIMALS AND LIVE IN PEACE WITH ARE FELLOW MAN…LOL

          NOW THAT’S DREAMING, WILL NEVER HAPPEN, IT CANT, THERE’S JUST TOO MANY VARIABLES.

          IF MICROSOFT BUILT CARS…YOU’D HAVE TO START THE THING TO, JUST TO TURN IT OFF….LOL…NEED A KEY ANYONE? LOL.

        • #2500572

          you know you have painted a very vivid & simple picture

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to HI ALL

          & that is no matter what happens we are still ruled by ms like it or not.I for one am stuck to xp like glue until such times as ms gets it’s act together if?? but in the end we all have to be pushed into it or should i say shoved into it.We don’t have much of a choice.The tests prove that vista depending of what you want or need out of it
          to me is a waste of space.Iv’ve been holding out to the last minute & as tests show side by side vista & xp,xp is still the way to go.
          ta mick
          all the best for the new year!

        • #2500748

          defintely right there as i have been holding off commenting

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Actually Michael I see some big differences

          in case there was any turnaround in performance.That is the latest testing & i’m sorry if i dissapoint a lot of people but i had to let the cat out of the bag.It’s
          not the popular thing to hear after all the spin doctoring going on by ms & their ilk.
          well you got ms stooges like michael hereid
          snr beleiving all is well with vista can’t accept the enevitable that ms has produced a crap system.

          ta mick

        • #2500713

          gsaravin-I told you before that in a side by side

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to defintely right there as i have been holding off commenting

          comparason-of escentually the same speed cpu-same amount memory. That the running of Vista and XP there is no noticable differance. Another thing I have not heard from any MS spokeperson that Vista is faster.
          Mike

        • #2500576

          well michael i’ve been telling you that vista has many flaws

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gsaravin-I told you before that in a side by side

          could it be that it’s all a rushed job.They call it work in progress still.I for one would not be buying vista until such times that ms really has fixed up most of it’s flaws.I for one will not sing it’s praises.As xp still is the way to go.But like all things in due time updates to xp will be scraped & people will be forced to eventually go to vista.As it stands vista
          is a total waste of space!
          Well i’ve been holding off to the last minute,thinking it will come good.
          ta mick

        • #2484853

          well good that you aresaying that because

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gsaravin-I told you before that in a side by side

          i have to agree speed is not one of the many benefits of vista as it’s too bloated.
          ta mick

    • #2485753

      latest news shows flaws in vista

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      excerpt from australian IT
      Vista still flawed
      Correspondents in San Francisco
      DECEMBER 27, 2006

      CHINKS have been found in the armor of new Vista software that Microsoft has touted as the safest operating system it ever designed.

      Determina Security Research, in Silicon Valley, said it had notified Microsoft of half a dozen software vulnerabilities, including potential for hackers to take administrative control of computers.

      “The vulnerable code is present in all versions of Windows up to and including Windows Vista,” Determina warned in a security bulletin on its website.

      A Russian programer that also discovered the potential to exploit a Vista weakness to gain access to computer systems published the information on the internet on December 15.

      Microsoft is working to patch Vista, Determina said. A business version of Vista was released in November and is to be available for the home computer market on January 30.

      Hackers could invade Vista-based computers via email or by tricking people into visiting websites that secretly plant malicious codes on their machines, according to Determina.

      There were no reports of hackers taking advantage of the weakness in any Windows operating systems, it said.
      ta mick

      • #2484809

        Yea and recent news shows flaws in Apple-linux-firefox

        by michael l hereid sr ·

        In reply to latest news shows flaws in vista

        so what’s your point. All software has flaws, MS is just a bigger target. The same thing was said about Xp when it came out. It’s too bloated-resource hungry-buggy, too slow, nobody will use, MS cannot write a OS, too many Mission critical software does not work with it, compatiblity issues.
        We have heard this all before.
        Mike

        • #2484795

          of course all software has some kind of flaws

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Yea and recent news shows flaws in Apple-linux-firefox

          my point is that, that ms has not tackled the critical issues of an operating system.I’m not attacking ms per se just because they are responsible.Look at the testing & look at the spin doctoring ms would have you beleive that everything is rosy when it’s not. We know previously about the slipshod way that vista was produced & introduced even the name vista was stolen & also the features were stolen from other systems like mac o/s & there was mad scramble to rewrite the source code & get x-box programmers to work on vista.This was more a face saving exercise.It was more to say hey were doing something worthwhile you’d better take us seriously.they reckon more was done in two months than in the five years,was there?? ehyou only got to see that testing shows apart from visual features comparison wise vista is crap.
          Also did i knock xp no i did’nt i have actually sang it’s praises.Nothing has changed much
          since their last beta.Only to hear that’s gotten better??
          Michael if testing showed any promise of a better performance i will be the first to say otherwise.When one is tested against the other well XP prevailed.We know thatgiven the test results you’d only need to be an idiot to take up vista purely for cosmetic reasons.
          Also ms saying to reduce costs they recommend an upgrade is not only crazy
          it’s silly as upgrades have serious implications to prerformance.Nothing beats clean complete installs.There michael am i knocking ms for having xp no,am i knocking vista yes because it’s got critical issues & so i’m knocking ms!
          i hope you got it by now!
          ta mick
          Ta mick

        • #2484750

          Lets see who stole what???

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to of course all software has some kind of flaws

          1 Gadgets -Apple-oops konfabulator had it first not Apple
          2 Search-Apple-oops again-MS announced/developed a full year before Appls so who stole what?
          3 Timemachine Apple-oops MS had it first in Server 2003.
          Looks like to me MS is not the only one.
          On the XBox did you know with XBox and Vista-say you have a movie on your pc-with xbox on the same network you can send that movie tothe xbox and show the movie on the tv . By the way it works perfectly.
          Mike

        • #2484726

          well michael whils’t everyone stels in the corporate world

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Lets see who stole what???

          ms made it so blatant.We as consumers expect original ideas not imitated ones from other o’s.We all pay good money & don’t expect a rehash of someone else’s ideas or name of which ms did go some lenghts to court& in a lot of cases it is all settled out of court for undisclosed sums.I don’tknow about you but i’d expect
          a higher amount of ethics from ms,more accountability for it’s actions.We consumers aren’t stupid you know & we won’t forget if we are lied to either.
          ta mick

        • #2484636

          Yea everyone steals ideas

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well michael whils’t everyone stels in the corporate world

          Lets see who has a Media Center Operating System-Apple(no)-linux(hmmm no)-MS(yes)
          Who came up with Apples idea of Timemachine-oh that’s right MS
          If ideas are good -why can’nt other companies use them.
          By the way gsaravin your right people are smart-they know what they want.
          Mike

        • #2484560

          at the moment ms is accused of divulging details

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Yea everyone steals ideas

          from hotmail accounts to third parties who are paying top dollar.
          Ms is simply denying it.
          ta mick

        • #2484559

          well michael you need a damn good set of lawyers

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Yea everyone steals ideas

          & heaps of money to protect you as the law will be after you.But big corporate gian’ts seem to get away with anything.
          Yea ,Yea,
          ta mick

        • #2484558

          yea you need a good set of lawyers & lot’s of money

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Yea everyone steals ideas

          yea,yea.
          ta mick

        • #2484725

          well michael whils’t everyone steals in the corporate world

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Lets see who stole what???

          ms made it so blatant.We as consumers expect original ideas not imitated ones from other o’s.We all pay good money & don’t expect a rehash of someone else’s ideas or name of which ms did go some lenghts to court& in a lot of cases it is all settled out of court for undisclosed sums.I don’tknow about you but i’d expect
          a higher amount of ethics from ms,more accountability for it’s actions.We consumers aren’t stupid you know & we won’t forget if we are lied to either.
          ta mick

        • #2484736

          you right Micheal

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to Yea and recent news shows flaws in Apple-linux-firefox

          Funny thing..I’m running rc2 since it came out….still running…no problems…so it must mean I know what I’m doing with it and I do.. OR GOT LUCKY OR BOTH.. only had 3 up dates in all that time…way better than XP…from that point of view, untill the hackers start cashing in…between bad code and them, good luck too anyone who thinks one day someone some where is going to put out a OS that’s run right….and Mick I never hold my breath for such a day, waste of time, I’d just pass out from beliving other wise….NO CAN PROVE NOTHING WHEN EVERY BIT OF SOFTWARE THAT EVER CAME OUT HAD SOME SHORT OF FLAW IN IT OR GOT DONE IN WITH A UPDATE….God we even get updates to fix one to cause another one.

          Not too long ago..I was pulling my hair out with XP and the service packs..it’s a lot more stable now, than before…but Vista was the frist one I was exspecting to really give me a hard time in RC1 and RC2….and too my surpise as compared to XP…the dam thing works as a RC2 BETTER than I had ever had with XP IN 5 YEARS. BEING A GAMER HELPS A LOT TOO…NEXT TO SERVERS…GAMERS RULE, THEN YOU GOT THE EASY STUFF…PLATFORMS..XBOX,PS3 AND A Wii Wii..lol and with morons who cant even hold the dam controller and now want sue for for being morons…

          One day I will retire from all this and have a few Fosters and laugh at it all as they put the implant chip into my arm and tell me it’s good for me and my bank account as my robot ask me if I need another drink and I’ll say hell ya and this time give me a fosters cold you stupid peice of ELECTRONIC MECHANICAL garbage with software written by microlinx..lol…
          PS..SEE YOU ALL THERE.

          I’m enjoying it till they…the hacks start too wreck it and they will…so like Micheal said What’s your point….as long as we have hackers to wrech it..i’ll have a job to repair it…hat’s off to them sort of speak.

        • #2484720

          well wdupcf you have a valid point with a twist is that

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to you right Micheal

          ms has thrown all of its cresources & money at vista & has made extreme promises & it has been caught out in such a short time,as you mentione by the hackers.My beef is not with micheal but with ms it’s about time it came out & gave a fairdinkum answer regarding the ligitness of it’s product namely vista.Ms has been proven wrong many times on it’s promises of a better failsafe system.I’ll beleive it when i see it!.
          ta mick

    • #2500552

      life

      by brooklyns finest ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      whats not to love about vista??its one of the latest versions of Microsoft OS’s, but yes your right it does take up alot of resources. But so did each windows os at its time. when you and I had commodore colt or commodore 64 we or I thought that the new windows machines were crap. I’m sure people thought the first color tvs were crap. I think plazma tv’s were crap when they first came out because of their weight, price and bulb burnout. But overtime you just get to love it. Imagining your computer experience without vista is like not driving a car and riding on horse and carriage…food for thought

      • #2484866

        Brooklyn u got a point, but…

        by robspcfixerupper ·

        In reply to life

        There are some nice additions to Vista. Though, it’s in its infancy, they’re software for the deaf and blind is a huge improvement on top of XP’s software. It still needs fine tuning though to match what’s out there. The snipping tool to create a custom screen capture is awesome. It was so annoying hitting ctrl-print scrn, then go into picture it 7.0 to edit it. The best feature i saw within vista for about 1 month was caller id. I have an Intel 537ep modem. Back in October, when the phone rang, I would get the number read out on my screen. For those of you who use your systems for faxing, it would be in the bubble saying you’ve sent a fax successfully. Since then it’s gone. My modem still works, but since I installed Vista I get a blue screen shutdown error resulting from intelc52.sys – a driver connected to my modem. Another feature Vista added which is desperately needed for novices is automatic defragging. This feature needs fine tuning. It’s impossible to know what the progress is anymore. All you do now is press defrag now, and it does it in the background. You have no idea when it’s done either. The security features are great, but just like every other forum on the net, everyone hates user account control. If my antivirus – AVG wants to update why can’t I automatically allow it each time. That security feature will annoy everyone, and in turn everyone will find a way or the gumption to turn off user account control. I have rambled on here about the some of the features in Vista, but I have to say you’re right. In this World, 90% of us are slaves to Microsoft. Within 5 years, 80% of all computers will have Vista. There’s no escaping it. I just wish they included a search feature in IE 7 for the bookmarks as Firefox does. They copied everything else, why not that.

        • #2484857

          good point rob4 school

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Brooklyn u got a point, but…

          definetely right there.If ms only listened
          to the consumer & what they wanted then perhaps then the focus might be different.I
          have to agree that certain features have got
          on everyone’s goat.Also i agree if they adopted some of the features that we’d want.
          Obviously i’ts a huge ask.i personally think
          only time will realy tell of what the real
          outcome for ms will be.as i have stated many times that ms is ultimately under test.
          It has only got itself to blame for the latest fiasco.
          ta mick

      • #2484865

        defintely right there as i have been holding off commenting

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to life

        we all got something to bitch about life & such & ms & it’s products are getting on people’s goat.Particularly when they have
        such a positive spin on their products.If their products namely vista were to be produced in such a way then we would’nt have to bitch.In my case i try to back up some of my bitchin with facts & figures.
        i just hope people are not taken in by the razzamataz of vista,when all is said & done xp will do the job much better because it’s a proven system.
        So you a Brooklyns finest eh keep up the tradition son!
        ta mick

        • #2484986

          XP vs Vista

          by lindfalas ·

          In reply to defintely right there as i have been holding off commenting

          I know how XP was in beta and in the realese form. it was not any better then Vista.
          It was much worst.
          Even win 2k was better then XP.
          you also compare a 6 years old OS that has been fine tuning and many bugs corected to a new OS( Vista)and wunder why its not the same that XP is??
          Well Its not XP and it still need som fine tuning, but that is the same for all software.
          None is 100% when it came out.
          And for the thing you say ms dont do what people want. *You got it wrong.
          Vista is more what people want then XP is.
          But you cant satified all people.
          For all people are not on the same level. They dont use the computer on the same way either.

          If you dont like vista, dont use it. Its so simple…

          Greetz

        • #2486970

          you are wrong & so is your friend michael

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to XP vs Vista

          Your comments are crap & you know it all you can resort to “well if you don’t like it you don’t have to use it”.Shows how dumb both you & others are.Ready to accept anything that is dished out to them hook line & sinker.
          ta mick

        • #2486916

          dumb??

          by lindfalas ·

          In reply to you are wrong & so is your friend michael

          Well , the only thing you have proven is your lack of knowlish about Vista and other OS.
          You say its crap and why do you still use it then?
          Why dont you trust you MS friend and dont use it??

          I use Vista more then other OS and it works fine. Even program that should not work on Vista.
          I use a programming language with the name “Clarion” and it works just fine.
          The only thing I did not be able to get to work is a webcam and a tv-card. All other work..
          Yes a also play game on it, but my XP is better on that for I have optimazed it for games. I bet I can get Vista to work the same way if I want to.

          Greetz

        • #2488343

          i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to dumb??

          vista ,in terms of performance & reliability i prefer xp over vista any day as there are known issues.In business i use xp as it performs better than vista.

          ta mick

        • #2488249

          Well in terms of reliablity and performance I prefer

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          Vista. It does all I want and more.
          Mike

        • #2488342

          i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to dumb??

          vista ,in terms of performance & reliability i prefer xp over vista any day as there are known issues.In business i use xp as it performs better than vista.

          ta mick

        • #2488248

          Well in terms of reliablity and performance I prefer

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          Vista. It does the job with no problems.
          Mike

        • #2488340

          i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to dumb??

          vista ,in terms of performance & reliability i prefer xp over vista any day as there are known issues.In business i use xp as it performs better than vista.You are all jumping the gun critizing me when you should criticise vista & ms.

          ta mick

        • #2488245

          Well in terms of reliablity and performance I prefer

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          Vista. I told you before my pc runs 24/7 with no problems.
          Mike

        • #2488339

          i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to dumb??

          vista ,in terms of performance & reliability i prefer xp over vista any day as there are known issues.In business i use xp as it performs better than vista.You are all jumping the gun critizing me when you should criticise vista & ms.

          ta mick

        • #2488271

          Jumping

          by lindfalas ·

          In reply to i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          Well I have used Vista since Beta1 and it has gott so much better now.
          I use it more then XP and I can say it working very good.
          So its you we are jumping on, for you dont have a qlue how good it is.
          The benchmark you have given us is a joke.
          Give as all data on the XP, Vista, computer and benchmark program. Befor that you are a joke.

          Greetz

        • #2488239

          Well in terms of reliablity and performance I prefer

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          Vista. yea where is the program you used to benchmark Vista. Plus what are the known issues you keep saying about Vista.
          Mike

        • #2488338

          i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to dumb??

          vista ,in terms of performance & reliability i prefer xp over vista any day as there are known issues.In business i use xp as it performs better than vista.You are all jumping the gun critizing me when you should criticise vista & ms.

          ta mick

        • #2488252

          Well in terms of reliablity and performance I prefer

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          Vista. It does all I want it too and then some.
          Mike

        • #2488337

          i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to dumb??

          vista ,in terms of performance & reliability i prefer xp over vista any day as there are known issues.In business i use xp as it performs better than vista.You are all jumping the gun critizing me when you should criticise vista & ms.

          ta mick

        • #2488243

          Well in terms of reliablity and performance I prefer

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i don’t know for personal use i prefer to use xp over vista having valuated

          Vista. Unlike you I do not do a cut and paste. Plus my Vista pc runs 24/7 with no problems so where are the problems you keep harping about?
          Mike

        • #2486971

          you are wrong & so is your friend michael

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to XP vs Vista

          Your comments are crap & you know it all you can resort to “well if you don’t like it you don’t have to use it”.Shows how dumb both you & others are.Ready to accept anything that is dished out to them hook line & sinker.
          ta mick

        • #2484880

          gsaravin-your facts and figures prove you wrong

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to defintely right there as i have been holding off commenting

          1 you said MS employees say Vista is crap and that Vista is dead as a OS- then how come Vista has been released
          2 You give benchmarks that you say proves Vista is slower than XP-90% of those benchmarks say Vista is faster(smaller numbers mean Vista takes less time to do benchmark)But then you have a PH’D and you know that RIGHT
          3 You say you’ve tested the source code when there is no way in h*** that you could have got that code
          4 if the source code is as bad as you say Vista would not even run
          Mike

        • #2487857

          :-)

          by lindfalas ·

          In reply to gsaravin-your facts and figures prove you wrong

          I agree with you, mike.
          1. Why should MS employees say its crap?
          Its there own product and if they did think its crap they would do it better.

          2. Benchmark are crap if you dont know how its done. I can show Vista is 1000% better or worst if I want, but that will not show the trues about it.

          3. No one have the code accept from MS there self. And even there very few have the whole code of all program thats used in Vista.

          4. Vista is good and why should MS realese a non working OS?? They would loose tomuch if they realese a none working OS.

          Greetz

        • #2488803

          greetz you are wrong & so is your friend mike

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to :-)

          1 ms employees say vista is crap because ms is a bullshit co to work for!Vista hs gone
          too long & is afaulty operating system & ms doesn’t care as long as they make $$$$$$$$$$$$$
          2 Bench amrks are not crap the figures are true vista side by side with xp performs less.
          ms has tricke you all to assume that it is better so you can buy it.
          3 only those people that care to have the code have it.You can test the code without accessing it by using various test software that developers use to test software.Even ms
          makes software to test it’s operating software.
          There’s heaps of people that can have access to the code by legal means & illegal means eg pirates.
          ms is just trying to be one step ahead of the rest & it can never be completely protected.
          4 vista is good ??why is it good it is slower than xp, there’s less drivers around,theres compatiblity problems & other issues.Ms has gone to the stage where it doesn’t care it has become a bloated monopoly.
          people like you & mike get taken in by the bells & whistles of vista.Wheras testing reveals the opposite results.
          I don’t hate ms,why because i like xp it’s better than vista.Vista is crap.!!!
          ta mick

        • #2487814

          RIPRavin…

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to gsaravin-your facts and figures prove you wrong

          You gave been ripped here gsaravin.
          Now get lost gsa!

        • #2488787

          you ready to accept the bullshit that michael pedals

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to RIPRavin…

          i have the facts & figures to prove you are wrong.The only tests you guys run is installation tests & even then you are just limited.
          Whereas i have done detailed analysis of performance side by side of vista v xp & xp wins by a long mile!!!
          Michael & others are wrong I’m right all they got is personal attacks on me .
          I’m right !!!
          ta mick

        • #2486915

          you right.. hahah

          by lindfalas ·

          In reply to you ready to accept the bullshit that michael pedals

          You are to funny.
          I do alot more then istall a OS.
          You have proven nothing so far.
          The test benchmark you showed prove not much more then you dont know what you are talking about.

          Greetz

        • #2488786

          your ready to accept the bullshit that michael pedals

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to RIPRavin…

          i have the facts & figures to prove you are wrong.The only tests you guys run is installation tests & even then you are just limited.
          Whereas i have done detailed analysis of performance side by side of vista v xp & xp wins by a long mile!!!
          Michael & others are wrong I’m right all they got is personal attacks on me .
          I’m right !!!
          ta mick

        • #2486976

          The problem with michael is he can’t accept the simple truth that

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to your ready to accept the bullshit that michael pedals

          ms got it all wrong,he’s got it wrong.It’s too awkward to accept that you arewrong michael you have t resort to personal attacks.
          Well michael you are happy to take ms word that vista is better than xp well youre wrong & so is your ms.
          ta mick

        • #2486861

          The problem with you gsaravin

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to The problem with michael is he can’t accept the simple truth that

          is that if somebody disputs your facts and figures- you figure it is an attack-you have insulted a whole lot more than me or anyone else.
          Mike

        • #2486858

          OK can you tell me

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to your ready to accept the bullshit that michael pedals

          What benchmarking software that you used to get those figures that you have cut and pasted many times. I would like to try them myself.
          Mike

        • #2488882

          my facts are right you are wrong

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gsaravin-your facts and figures prove you wrong

          The fact is michael you won’t accept anything less than that that ms.
          1 ms people have said to me in private that vista is crap & as an os is gone!.They are releasing it because that’s is what people expect at the long journey has anyone given
          any thought about it not on your nelly they have.
          2 This proves your wrong if xp does 10 million operations per second & vista does 8 million operations per second then xp is faster by doing an extra 2 million operations.
          I know why vista is slower i want you to work it out you don’t have to be a phd like me to work it out.Enough said People who are
          software developers in the industry know how to assess operating systems without even getting in the source code.I know i have used various software at my disposal that tests source code thoroughly & reports.As to my accessing vista code that’s for me to know & you to find out.My testing proves what a piece of shit vista is.
          3 see michael you don’t appreciate how things work.i have tested vista & know that its a pile of crap.
          4 yes michael it is badit’s all been produced in a roughshod way !
          ta mick

        • #2488876

          well michael latest vista problems show that

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to my facts are right you are wrong

          when you have a vista network coupled with
          both vista & xp pcs the xp pcs won’t work properly in a vista environment.As a matter of fact xps will not show up on vista mapping
          or be recognised by the network.Also xp pcs may show up & dissapear &vice versa.
          So another reason why vista is crap vista is not backward compatible with other windows versions or pcs containing other versions of windows.When networking ,Unless people replace their whole networks with vista then they can expect huge amount of trouble Trouble with a capital T.
          ta mick

        • #2488814

          What is the matter,gsaravin- didn’t your MS insiders tell you

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well michael latest vista problems show that

          MS knew about this very early in 2006 and no they don’t have to have to replace their whole network with Vista. The addition of a small program to a XP pc and the PC will work on the network.
          I have both Vista and XP on the same network with no problems.
          So again gsaravin your completely WRONG.
          Mike

        • #2488800

          The only thing thats crap, will be gsaravin.

          by lindfalas ·

          In reply to What is the matter,gsaravin- didn’t your MS insiders tell you

          You dont have the source code so you cant test it more then other can.
          Why should any company give out a product that not work??
          They would loose all the customer that way.
          I do also know ms people and they belive on there product.
          So do I.
          You benchmark prove nothing.
          Like I did write before it so easy to rigg this just for showing the resault you have.
          It just dont prove anything.
          On top of that Vista demand more power then Xp so you must meet that to.
          I also have W2000, xp and vista in a network.
          I also use remotedesktop with this OS, without any problem.

          So what are your problem?
          If you dont like Vista stay with XP or go to Linux system?s..

          Greetz

        • #2488795

          No your wrong Xp is faster than vista by a long shot!!!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to What is the matter,gsaravin- didn’t your MS insiders tell you

          You got it all wrong,say you have a vista network.If you try to connect xp pcs they will not be recognised & they will appear
          & dissapear at will.These are known issues also other windows op systems are not recognised.
          Also experience shows that vista networking is much slower than under xp.Xp networking is faster.There are other problems not resolved with vista & youre wrong.
          think again your wrong!
          ta mick

        • #2486741

          What’s the matter gsaravin did you not read that

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to What is the matter,gsaravin- didn’t your MS insiders tell you

          with the addition of a small program to the XP OS machine and there are no problems. This is old news to me, which has been corrected a long time ago.
          Mike

        • #2486965

          Well michael test results prove you are wrong !

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gsaravin-your facts and figures prove you wrong

          I held off not commenting & let you shoot your mouth off which you have & you said that xp is marginally better.No michael xp is extremely better than vista by a long shot.
          Xp is better in performance in most areas over vista there’s no room for your marginal performance analysis.You have been blown clear off the water.But michael you can’t admit to yourself because you are so set in your ways.Until you admit to yourself that someone else knows for a change you are set in your ways.You can go lick ms arse
          ta mick

        • #2486918

          TIME TO KILL THIS THREAD

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Well michael test results prove you are wrong !

          I will get on the case ASAP.

        • #2486854

          Kinda wish someone would……

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to TIME TO KILL THIS THREAD

          it is getting nowhere and I seriously doubt if anyone has really changed their minds after 1270 posts or so.

        • #2488067

          HOW TOO KILL A THREAD..PART 1..REVISED… THE CODE

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to Kinda wish someone would……

          the truth is out there…….. Mick

          how i came to know that vista is crap is priveledged information, for i Mick, at night, put on my white cape, my bright silver buckel, blues swade shoes and become

          a secret agent Elvis man, aaaaa, hun hun ….. and my code name, is Elvis Vista moulder…..and now. I WILL
          share with you and the world, this priveledged information….just read it backwards ok, np. might be a secret message in here like Paul is dead (Beatles) or Vista is crap….lol

          All i can say is you meet all kinds of people, real, fictional and imagenary ones too, when you are studying for a Phd, in how to spell, type rite AND READ BENCHMARKS.

          Theres ways & meanws to everythin. if only i could figure out what they are..butt as long as i keep telling myself i did it, then by god mate, while laying back and downing 2 cases of fosters larger in the morning to get my day started and on a roll, well by the end of it mate, i guess i must of did it, i think?…. did i?…ahhhhh….were i’m i.. what were? we talking about….

          oh ya, I’M RIGHT YOUR WRONG, forgot, keep hearing music in my dam head…..must be daa broken record…from the….Vista is crap 2006 by Mick….crikey, that name tha tune

          sounds so familar..oh ya…that’s me singing mate…..lol

          I cannot divulge my sources as more than can anyone else, since they only exsist in the dark coradoors of ones own dark recesses of ones own mine, scarey eh?

          Boo…. you get my drift and tHE smell, sorry mate, it’s the fosters and that Kagaroo i had for breckfast, barking back at me.

          I could publish my findings, if only ,i could find out, who would be moron enough TOO DO SO, or maybe write
          a book. once i learn how to write and type…oh ya..forgot..going for my phd. frist and then RIGHT after that, MY nuke-goo-u-lar science DEGREE, then I WILL

          AND HAVE THE PROOF, most likely, will be hired by MR. burns, move to springfield U.S.A and work along side Homer Simpson…NP…i’ll teach hommie a thing or

          two.

          But divulging my sources is not auger with me, since i will argue with anyone about Vista, for no apairent reason, weather it makes sence or not, including myself, and

          have went a few rounds with myself too and won everyone everyone of them too, becacuse i know I’m right…….right?

          YOU say you want proof….well here it is..when the last time you knew anyone that would kick the crap out of themselfs, just to tell themselfs they right?

          I’ll send you movie i made while doimg this. i laugh every time i play it, which is every hour….now that’s proof.

          But also, i have divulged my tools of trade which is more than enough.

          in case you forgot here they are again. my top 9 list….for number 10 is so top secret, even i dont know what it is and i’am even working on it right now too.

          1. Betty crocker cook book, 1972

          2. non-working ati rage fury pro.64 mb video card

          3. 5 and a half in.. floppy drive, no cable

          4. 100MB super duper, zip drive, still cant belive how much SPACE they got in these things AND HOW THEY MANAGE TO PUT 80 FLOPPIES IN IT TOO and IT’S still so

          thin…amazing tech really.wow.

          one day when i know what i’m doing, the frist thing i’ll do is open her up carefully since i think it’s spring loaded and take them all out, one by one when i got enough

          room on my desk….hang on ..note to myself..get new desk and face gaurd, for all those floppies.

          5. tweeter, broken

          6. heathkit advance tube ham radio from 1968 for talking to my speical invisable friends at night, even works when it not plug in too, i got proof.

          7. keyboard, in korean, which dont help me one bloody bit mate, in spelling or typping, plus a 1 yrs accumalation of, so you what to be a mover and a shaker, for united van lines. inc.

          8. car and driver books, for which car to use for quick getaway, if microsoft comes to get me.

          9. ONE IT PRO MAG…ISSUE 2003, front cover say, Bill Gates… Vista it’s crap, so what, you’ll get it anyways, I’ll make sure of that, for I’am Bill Gates.

          10. I know i said 9, but since i cant count or read my bunchmaks…..here’s the secret…

          Windows ME for dummies..since it all about ME anyways and it the speical, even I cant belive how dum you really are dummie Mick edition.

          like i can say is you meet all kind of people, but in my case i not meet anyone in 29 years, not even outside my house, only this place and hal9000 and

          you’s….and the dark coradoors of ones own dark recesses of ones own mine, scarey eh?

          Boo…..blime..sorry, forgot.did that already.

          i can and will divulge for the frist time ever, where i got the vista code from and please dont tell anyone, they might think it crap.

          ok…………

          here’s it’s go.

          one night , not so long ago, i was playing with and turning my 1968, ham radio around and around and around for better reception.. when, i picked up a signel from

          a alien race of beings from the planet boltron, well then , when they knew i contacted them, crikey, presto, mate, i was abducted by them, quicker than i can

          log off here with all my bechmarks and not one for shooting ones own mouth off mate in this thread, which i do anyways about nothing else, despite myself, wellll

          i guess, those little ones, they took one look at me, in my outfit and after asking me a few questions and my thoughts on XP, they told me, Mick you so

          full of crap, and where for Gods sake you get those clothes…… you go now Mick or we will destroy your world, but lucky for you’s and all of mankind,

          since i will not back down and argue with everyone…even with aliens because…well…. the rest as they say is top secrect and history even till this day, but i tell you anyways ok.

          ok..???????……you still there?…………oh…i see you fall on floor and now back in your chair…that’s good, grab a fosters and lay back ok.

          anyways, i took them all on mate..yep me, just me and my fosters beer , which i manage too slip, a few dozen down me shorts before i left..on there saucer.

          now, you may say…WOW…what happen next mick..how was it possible for you to take on all these aliens and all these people here in this thread, you think is yours and all..BY YOURSELF.

          well my friend…it was even easyier than that..you see, i have 2 secret weapons , that only Mick has with him 7/24..of course i use the frist one frist on them, which is my mouth…yep…simple eh?, simple things for simple people…they got so tried of listening to my crap about XP being crap, never mind, even letting me, get started on Vista, when they suddely cut me short and threw up their tiny, long skinny boney arms, in the air, and said please, please mr. the mick stop already ,will give you anything you want..just shut up about XP, PLEASEEEEE…so i said, really? anything?…yes they said, anything, money, women, men, toys, plants, houses, planes cars..power..the world if you want.

          well…you know all those things wont bring a simple minded man like me with my intellect, happyniess..

          so since i knew, they can be invisable too, with their acme cloaking device, given to them by BUGS BUNNY when they abducted him IN 1948 AT ROSWELL..see,

          people, there were two saucers that day and one crashed in the desert and the other had Bugs in it and in case you dont know this, that’s were we get the term Bugs from, in computer talk,

          i also found out from them, that this device was… MADE BY?..WHO ELSE………..microsoft Mick?….yep…YOU Guessed it bucko, Microsoft, they been around a lot longer than any ones knows and bill gates, well, he just a clone…that’s were we get the term clones from too..for
          the pc’s.

          WELL that really pissed me off to no end when i found that out… THEN I NEW right then and there what a aussie had too do..WITH A FEW FOSTERS and a kagaroo

          in me mate, i like , let GO, MY OTHER secret weapon, one great big one too, AUSSIE style and i must say one of the best that ever came out of me mate and if

          i do say so myself, WHoooooo HEEEEEE…, now that was real crap and that got there attention really quick too, then they just fly me over OVER TO BILLS HOUSE NP AND

          get me a copy of Windows ME…OOUPS..I mean vista..oops….HEHEHE i mean the source code…heheheheh

          AMAZING EH MATE….I’LL SAY MICK ..

          YA.TOOK THEM DAM NEAR 5 MINS TO GET IT TOO, SLOW THESE ALIENS THEY ARE.

          THEN I FIND OUT, THEY WERE GOING TO DROP ME OFF IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ATLANTIC OCEAN into a perfect storm…..WELL THAT’S CRAP I SAID TO MYSELF FOR LIKE 30 MINS, till i even got dizzy.

          AND WHEN I STARTED TOO TALK TOO THEM AGAIN, TO LET THEM KNOW I NEW. WELL BLIME, PRESTO, FOUND MYSELF droped right next door to a pub, JUST DOWN FROM WHERE I

          LIVE, SO I DROP IN FOR A FEW and then finish off the other case, WHEN I GOT BACK HOME AND WAS about to rip into ANYWAYS THERE MATE before the abduction..

          so i guess, i saved the world from being invaded, THKS TOO MICROSOFT, ME, Vista
          code, and one great big fart..like this thread…see. being A secret AGENT, dress the way i do, WITH A butt hole PROBLEM COMES in handy mate…for threads like these.yaaaa they not so smart them, these aliens, microsoft AND the people in here still listening to me LIKE a broken record.

          Oh YA…BETWEEN ME AND YOU, i took one of there MOST advanced type Writers and shove it down my shorts too..since i drank all the fosters on their saucer ANYWAYS.

          BLIME..too bad the dam things in korean.

          SO NOW YOU KNOW ,HOW I GOT THE SORCE VISTA CODE AND NOW YOU KNOW I’M DOING THE SAME THING IN HERE WITH VISTA, TO all of YOU’S AS I DID TO THOSE ALIENS WITH XP…LOL.

          SO WHERE WERE WE People..you smell anything?..oh ya

          Vista.. is crap.come take a wift.i have proof, i’m right and your wrong,..will never make the cut…i use tools..ask the aliens…….lol

          Looks like another year of Vista is crap coming from you know who, so line up fools and listen….he got a phd and you dont.

          this thread was dead from the start.

          it’s not about anything, less than the missguided bull-shit, rabblings and talk, from a guy who’s got you’s all worked up about nothing..we call them ..BULLSHITERS……lol.

          i’ll admit Mick….you got do have a PhD IN that one down and the suckers too prove it…lol

          I’M OUTA OF THIS, HERE AND IF YOU HAD ANY, YOU GO TOO AND LEAVE HIM HERE BY HIMSELF AND SOON NO MATTER WHAT, HE WILL BE RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING.

          between the 3 of you’s…

          YOU CAN KEEP THIS CRAP GOING ON TILL MICROSOFT COMES OUT WITH THEIR NEXT OS CALLED WINDOWS TFMC (TOTALY FULL OF MORE CRAP)…( should be easy..remember.3 KEY WORDS HERE…CRAP, PROOF..AND YOUR WRONG AGAIN…..CYA’S

        • #2488699

          VISTA SOURCE CODE LEAKED

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to TIME TO KILL THIS THREAD

          Here is the source code for Micosoft Windows Vista 😛

          /**
          * (c) 2007 Misrocoft Corp.
          * All rights reserved
          */

          #include

          class WindowsVista extends WindowsXP implements Nothing
          {
          boolean beta = true;

          WindowsVista()
          {
          checkIfHardwareIsCompatible();
          /** Ok. The idiot seems to have some high end hardware.
          * Lets make his life miserable
          */

          runInternetExplorer7();
          }

          void checkIfHardwareIsCompatible()
          {
          /*
          * Lets make sure that half the world cannot run this OS while
          * we fix all the bugs
          */
          if((installedRam < 2GB) && (processorSpeed < 4GHz)) { MessageBox("Your System does not seem to be capable of running zero err.. aero glass and the like. Please upgrade the hardware and try again."); WaitTillPoorGuyReadsTheMessage(); bsod(); } } void runInternetExplorer7() { IE7 ie7 = new IE7(); ie7.featureSet = firefox_features + safari_features + opera_features + lot_of_bugs; ie7.run(); WaitWhileThePoorGuyLooksAtTheNewInterface(); bsod(); } /** * return true when product is stable. */ boolean isReadyForRelease() { int lastReportedNumberOfBugs = 3457888E+08 int totalNoOfNewFeatures = 600; boolean readyForRelease = false; sendFeatureSetToMarketingGuys(); while (marketingGuysAreAtIt) { Thread fixBugsWhileInBeta = new fixBugsWhileInBeta(); fixBugsWhileInBeta.assignProgrammer(oneBug); fixBugsWhileInBeta.start(); if(programmersAreNotSufficient) { hireFromXBOXDivision(); } if(aMonthHasPassed) { announce("Windows Vista Consumer Version Will be delayed by one more month"); dropAFewFeatures(); totalNoOfNewFeatures = totalNoOfNewFeatures - 10; } /** Boss strictly told me that we should have no more than * 7000 bugs * when we ship the item */ if(lastReportedNumberOfBugs-- == 7000) return true; } } int main(void) { WindowsVista vista = new WindowsVista(); vista.runWindowsXP(); return plentyOfMoneyforBilly; } }

        • #2487301
          Avatar photo

          Well to state the obvious

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to TIME TO KILL THIS THREAD

          If you and others stopped posting to this thread it would die a natural death.

          If you keep feeding it it’s going to continue no matter who you complain to as it’s a valid technical thread where different people express their personal opinions about a product that will either make or break Microsoft. If not in this particular incarnation the next one in about 4 years time after M$ release a Service Pack something like SP 2 for XP in 2 years and then a modified OS 2 years or there about after that. If anyone had bothered to attend the M$ Roadshows they would already know that Vista is the basis for the next 10 years of development at M$ and they are planning on a service pack every 2 years and a modified OS every other 2 years.

          Hell if money is all that is important I’ve just made more selling 2 5 license CAL Packs for 2003 than I made selling the 2003 SBS Premium Edition Server or profit on the hardware involved for a small business with 13 workstations.

          M$ not only wants to charge for the OS then charge you to allow more than 5 computers to access the server at a time but they also insisted that as this business had brought 1 5 CAL license they now qualified for Volume License so I should sell them a Volume License for XP for each of the 13 workstations in the business which are already loaded with XP Pro.

          Talk about wanting their cake & eating it as well. I don’t know too many people willing to pay twice for the same thing and then shell out more money so that the server product can be used by all the workstations when it’s already expensive.

          Just as a comparison to look at the 2003 SBS Premium came in at about $1545.00 AU and the 2 packs of 5 CAL’s cost $1600.00 + AU maybe it’s just me but what is wrong with this picture where the cost of buying 10 CAL’s is more than the OS that they are loaded on?

          Again this is Medical work so I have to deferent between Microsoft and Multiple Scerrious and since Multiple Serricious was around a long time before Microsoft and got the MS tag Microsoft gets the M$ tag to denote the difference. I gave up a long time ago =trying to explain that No the Computers don’t have Multiple Serricious MS means something different in this case to what the Quacks and administrators write out every day as shorthand for a disease.

          And before anyone jumps on me for incorrect spelling this spell checker hasn’t been programed with Medical Terminology and I’m not interested in looking up the correct spelling, if that offends you [b]Suck Eggs![/b]

          Col

        • #2487647

          i have to agree with you whole heartedly

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well to state the obvious

          & they can all go suck eggs Or do their own testing!
          ta mick

        • #2489436

          Psssst, Hal …. a helping hand

          by marchred ·

          In reply to Well to state the obvious

          It’s Multiple Sclerosis, mate 😉

        • #2489387
          Avatar photo

          Unfair TIME OUT Where’s the Ref

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Well to state the obvious

          I gave up medical work years ago. I don’t do medical work any more and I don’t expect my staff to do it either.

          Worked quite nicely for about 15 years or so and then I got a skin cancer removed which wasn’t supposed to be anything special, unfortunately the pathology results said something different.

          So instead of having a Panicked GP scared that I was going to sue him for not doing the necessary work I asked for a copy of the Path report to ask a friend who just happens to be a surgeon who I’ve known for what feels like forever. Great to visit him at home and drink his expensive Scotch and I always stayed away from his OR until that report. 🙁

          He demanded a referral from th GP and them proceeded to help me loose some weight by cutting stuff out of me non of which where anything but moles, then when he got me in a position where I could see what he was doing he made an incision and then hit me to do some IT work in his surgery. He’s really an evil SOB but I still like him and he has good Scotch and I can always claim that I only drink under Medical Supervision. 😀

          So I did his surgery IT work and didn’t expect any of my staff to put up with him so I did it myself. After all what can you say to some crazy lunatic with a scalpel in his hand cutting into you? 🙁

          Then he started to help me by pushing other doctors to me for help. I’ve managed to avoid most of the work computers and just did their Home Computers so I was sort of happy with that arraignment. Then my local GP hit me with a simple Server Upgrade [i]I really do know better but again no working LAN no fast appointments.[/i] So I agreed to help out on one occasion after all how hard could it be to replace 1 SBS Server? Somewhat harder that I initially thought about but mainly because of the network setup which was the biggest problem and no one to tell how it had been configured so it took slightly longer than I originally anticipated and then AD was thrown into the mix as I had to supply a server running SBS Premium so it couldn’t be part of the workgroup that the old one was. Well as soon as th CAL’s arrive that will be finished and no more there [i]I Hope.[/i]

          Then the makers of the Medical Software got wind of what I had managed to achieve with their product so I’m now setting up a new system there after all I found all the solutions so why not that was their opinion anyway and as it’s strictly not Medical Work only Medical Related I suppose it’s not that bad. After all I screw up here no ones going to die as a result well not directly anyway. :^0

          That involved 2003 ES this time and quite a few more CAL’s as they want their system to be close to the doctors who buy their software but still powerful enough to support their needs.

          Now I’m looking very seriously at an extremely long Hospital stay suffering from [b]Information Overload[/b] but unfortunately I don’t now know a single quack who will fill in the necessary paperwork. 🙁

          But no matter what they say I’m not starting to do Medical Work again no matter how much I’m blackmailed into it. The Surgeon is retiring latter this year and I’ll find a new GP if necessary. But on the up side I’m currently owed several Major Operations buy one Surgeon, been promised 5 Transplant surgeries by another and several more major surgeries by the other mad quacks. Short of dropping another car on myself I don’t think that I need Medical Insurance any more. :^0

          Col ]:)

        • #2486855

          Ok what’s the benchmark program that proves you right

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Well michael test results prove you are wrong !

          I would like to run them myself and if the tests show you are right- I’ll admit it here. Lets see the proof.
          Mike

        • #2486805

          Benchmark

          by lindfalas ·

          In reply to Ok what’s the benchmark program that proves you right

          Well I would be intressting in those to.
          But I gues its old program that not run well on Vista. hehe.
          They need to be uptodate so they use all new things in both Xp and vista.
          Also the graphics driver need to be same and NOT any tweak 3:e part stuff.
          Like I did say it?s easy to fake a good resault if you dont give the other the same chance.

          Greetz

        • #2486710

          Well Said Michael

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to Ok what’s the benchmark program that proves you right

          the guantlet is thrown down.

        • #2488697

          VISTA SOURCE CODE LEAKED.

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well Said Michael

          Here is the source code for Micosoft Windows Vista 😛

          /**
          * (c) 2007 Misrocoft Corp.
          * All rights reserved
          */

          #include

          class WindowsVista extends WindowsXP implements Nothing
          {
          boolean beta = true;

          WindowsVista()
          {
          checkIfHardwareIsCompatible();
          /** Ok. The idiot seems to have some high end hardware.
          * Lets make his life miserable
          */

          runInternetExplorer7();
          }

          void checkIfHardwareIsCompatible()
          {
          /*
          * Lets make sure that half the world cannot run this OS while
          * we fix all the bugs
          */
          if((installedRam < 2GB) && (processorSpeed < 4GHz)) { MessageBox("Your System does not seem to be capable of running zero err.. aero glass and the like. Please upgrade the hardware and try again."); WaitTillPoorGuyReadsTheMessage(); bsod(); } } void runInternetExplorer7() { IE7 ie7 = new IE7(); ie7.featureSet = firefox_features + safari_features + opera_features + lot_of_bugs; ie7.run(); WaitWhileThePoorGuyLooksAtTheNewInterface(); bsod(); } /** * return true when product is stable. */ boolean isReadyForRelease() { int lastReportedNumberOfBugs = 3457888E+08 int totalNoOfNewFeatures = 600; boolean readyForRelease = false; sendFeatureSetToMarketingGuys(); while (marketingGuysAreAtIt) { Thread fixBugsWhileInBeta = new fixBugsWhileInBeta(); fixBugsWhileInBeta.assignProgrammer(oneBug); fixBugsWhileInBeta.start(); if(programmersAreNotSufficient) { hireFromXBOXDivision(); } if(aMonthHasPassed) { announce("Windows Vista Consumer Version Will be delayed by one more month"); dropAFewFeatures(); totalNoOfNewFeatures = totalNoOfNewFeatures - 10; } /** Boss strictly told me that we should have no more than * 7000 bugs * when we ship the item */ if(lastReportedNumberOfBugs-- == 7000) return true; } } int main(void) { WindowsVista vista = new WindowsVista(); vista.runWindowsXP(); return plentyOfMoneyforBilly; } }

        • #2488703

          WDUPCF you deserve a couple cases for that you cracked

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Ok what’s the benchmark program that proves you right

          the code.Why bother no one really cares i surprised myself we’ve reached 1300 responses.
          Your replies are most entertaining value of
          which even michael may benefit eh wash away the blues!!
          ta mick

        • #2488543

          THE FINAL ROUND, WITH A FOSTERS PLEASE

          by wdupcf ·

          In reply to WDUPCF you deserve a couple cases for that you cracked

          I’LL TAKE 2 CASES OF FOSTERS LARGER THKS….LOL

          THIS IS, THE BEST REPLY YOU HAVE GIVEN BACK IN ALL OF THIS AND 1300 RESPONSES YOU SAY..WHOOOO..BLOW ME AWAY.

          MAN, DID YOU EVER GET CRAP MILEAGE OUT OF THIS ONE..LOL

          PS. Although I was Bit hard, on picking on ya at times from the begining, It was Obvious you had to be the one, in this thread, to go after and I did, like a few others.

          I also, found myself getting too personal on the hate side of things about something , that in the end wont make a HILL a beans of differance in the end any ways, when all in all, it should of been fun, to exchange and debate, to poke fun at and laugh at ones self, you me or them.

          when I realized that, well, I started to poke fun.

          NO HARD FEELINGS MICK AND ALL, I’M SURE WE CAN ALL SIT DOWN BELT DOWN A FEW FOSTERS WITH A KAGAROO ON THE BAR-B.

          I’LL GIVE CREDIT TO BILL FOR ONE THING, HE’S THE ONLY ONE, WITH THE ONLY OS, AS BEST HE CAN DREAM AND THEY CAN DO, THAT’S TRYING TO BE EVERYTHING TO EVERYONE, IT WILL TAKE A WHILE YET, IF EVER AND COMES AT A PRICE, ALONG WITH THE STROUNG ARM TACTICS and like all things human, IT WILL NEVER BE PERFECT, TELL ME WHAT THINGS ARE ,COST MORE AND DELIVERY EVEN LESS THAN THIS,…. LOTS…..

          THE DAY YOU BORN, YOU GET TAGGED AND RELEASED, IN THE SO CALLED FREE WORLD, THAT’S A FREEDOM WE ALL TAKE FOR GRANTED AND THE PRICE WE PAY, IN SOME COUNTRIES YOU disappear FOR THREADS LIKE THIS, BUT WE STILL BUY THERE CRAP…BECAUSE IT CHEAP, WHICH MAKES US ALL Hypocrites.

          Vista will be good in the end, just in time for them to give us another one with bugs in it, hell XP, is even getting better, patch by patch…runs way better now than it ever did, but also keep in mind, so do the third party patches too….GET A OS WITH A CRAP VIDEO DRIVER…GUESS WHAT?…NO FUN.

          you can take any kernel that’s writen dam near perfect and surround it with trouble and then blame the OS….I’LL TELL YOU ONE THING, NO ONE…..WOULD SIT DOWN EVERYDAY IN THIS THREAD OR ANY OTHER AND LISTEN TOO THE EVERYDAY WORKINGS, ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON AT MICROSOFT WITH A OS LIKE VISTA…YOU’D GO INSANE.

          BUT LIKE THE CONSUMERS WE ARE….WILL BITCH AT THE FRIST SIGN OF TROUBLE ABOUT ANYTHING AS THOUGH WE WERE THE EXPERTS.

          HELL LOOK AT GAS…THINK WE DONT BITCH ABOUT THAT EVERYDAY, WHILE PUMPING IT.

          BUTTOM LINE HERE FOR ME AND I REALIZED A LONG TIME AGO, IS THEY RUN THE SHOW, ARE JOB IS TOO FIND FAULT AND TO BITCH ABOUT IT , WHILE PAYING FOR IT AT THE CHECKOUT COUNTER, WE ALSO GET PAID TO DO THAT TOO AND THEN YOU HAVE THE REAL DUMMIES TO PUT UP WITH ON TOP OF IT.

          THAT’S ABOUT 98.5% OF THE PLANET, SO GOOD LUCK TRYING TO FIND A SPACE THAT’S MAKES SENCE TOO YOU’S OR ME AND FIT IN.

          ALL I KNOW, IS THE FRIST I GOT WHEN I WAS BORN, WAS SLAP ON THE ASS AND A SLICE OR 2 FOR THE OTHER THING WE CALL PEOPLE WITH LATER IN LIFE.

          NOT A GOOD WAY OF SAYING WELCOME, BY THE WAY YOU GOT A GOD AND LATER , YOU’LL BE PAYING TAXES, GLAD YOU CAN JOIN US, YES US, THE HUMAN RACE…….LOL

        • #2487316

          well drinks all around i’m shouting lets take out all

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to WDUPCF you deserve a couple cases for that you cracked

          the tensions i can even see michael gobble a couple fosters & his face is covered in beer foam as he licks it away & smiles to himself that all is well on the vista front no one is going to take that from him sic.
          Good luck to one & all i’m happy with xp for the next**** years!
          ta mick
          ps pass a few beers for my buddies & keep the change sluuuuurrrrp
          ta mick ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

        • #2505843

          WDUPCF, michael keeps knocking back the free beer

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to WDUPCF you deserve a couple cases for that you cracked

          Well why don’t we just have another dozen cold tinnies to ourselves.We should celebrate the release of the vista source code.By the way have you read george ou’s blog jan 8 where he is not happy with vista.
          ps maybe he should partake of our free fosters beer slurrrrp,hic.
          ta mick

        • #2505844

          WDUPCF, michael keeps knocking back the free beer

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to WDUPCF you deserve a couple cases for that you cracked

          Well why don’t we just have another dozen cold tinnies to ourselves.We should celebrate the release of the vista source code.By the way have you read george ou’s blog jan 8 where he is not happy with vista.
          ps maybe he should partake of our free fosters beer slurrrrp,hic.
          ta mick

        • #2488633

          gsaravin WHERE IS THE BENCHMARK PROGRAM

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Ok what’s the benchmark program that proves you right

          there are several of us that would like to see if we can duplicate your facts.
          Or will this be like the time we asked for the programs that you used to test Vista but then when you told us what they were.We checked and the thing is those programs checked the source code only not the program.
          When I told you about this all of a sudden you said you had the source code.Yea RIGHT
          Mike

        • #2489299

          well michael don’t worry yourself with the details,have you read george

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gsaravin WHERE IS THE BENCHMARK PROGRAM

          ou’s blog jan 8 http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/Ou/?p=402
          where he gives vista the thumbs down & shows heaps wrong with vista of which he hopes ms will take note ! & fix???When i first started this thread he was singing vista’s praises.
          ta mick

        • #2488762

          Well gsaravin I know what I see

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Well michael test results prove you are wrong !

          1 a operating system that works with no problems
          2 in a side by side comparison of identical pc’s-Vista boots faster-same programs there is no noticable differance in speed.
          3 Vista is as stable and more secure than XP
          4 There you go again insulting somebody(me)
          Mike

        • #2488720

          why don’t we agree to disagree you be happy with your vista & let me be

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well gsaravin I know what I see

          There’s no need to reply to every little skerrick.Lets face it the only time you’ll agree when ms dissappears of the map.Just be happy with bwhat you’ve got.

          ta mick

        • #2488711

          Well software design & source code testing

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well gsaravin I know what I see

          go together.

          It is “AS STRONG AS THE WEAKEST LINK” Such massive failures occur because crucial design flaws are discovered too late. Only after programmers began building the code–the instructions a computer uses to execute a program–do they discover the inadequacy of their designs. Sometimes a fatal inconsistency or omission is at fault, but more often the overall design is vague and poorly thought out. As the code grows with the addition of piecemeal fixes, a detailed design structure indeed emerges–but it is a design full of special cases and loopholes, without coherent principles. As in a building, when the software’s foundation is unsound, the resulting structure is unstable.
          What is worse, bugs “fixed” during the testing process often exacerbate design problems. As programmers debug the code and insert new features, the software invariably grows barnacles of complexity, creating more opportunities for errors and inefficient operation.
          ta mick

        • #2488652

          funny II

          by lindfalas ·

          In reply to Well software design & source code testing

          you are just to funny.
          Dont you know anything at all about programming and design??
          I start 1979 with programming and I know how you can work.
          It?s seems on you like its only one code. Its not.
          Its many part that work toghether.
          Thats a strong design, for you dont have to rewrite all if things go bad.
          Also many people do diffrent part and go by a formula what that part shall do.
          In a building its to hard to build the foundation when most of the building is up.
          Thats not so with programming.
          Beta is a part that most things is were it shall be. You have come so long in the project so you need to test all things.
          In RC you dont change much, you only fix little bug?s that have not been fixed in the beta stage.
          in RTM you have fixed most bug and have a stable product.
          Ofcourse there will be bugs and other things that its not so good. But that is always how program works.
          No product is bugfree or work with all things around.

          Greetz

        • #2487298
          Avatar photo

          Greetz why are you attempting to defend M$?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Well software design & source code testing

          When they have already admitted that they [b]Screwed Up with Vista?[/b] What you are describing is the very problem behind Vista and what has caused the continual put off to release that have occurred since the development of Longhorn started.

          MS freely admit that they bit off more than they could chew with this one and have messed it up in a big way.

          They freely admit that they had too many different departments working in isolation of their bits of code and when the rare meetings came around they realised that the code that department A was working on wouldn’t work with Departments C F G & Z and so on down the line.

          As things currently stand there are various [b]Experts[/b] in various areas of Vista but no one who understands the entire thing in all it’s complex interactions.

          I’ll repeat just for you at the M$ Roadshow on 22 MAY 2006 the M$ Speaker said and I quote [i]”Vista as it stands now represents 1,000,000 man hours of development work and we are currently finding 5,000 new bugs per day.”[/i]

          You can not seriously be saying that since 22 May 2006 everything has been fixed as of the RTM date 5 months latter can you? If you are saying this you are claiming that Vista is offering something else that no other M$ Product so far has offered it’s perfect which it’s far from the truth with the weaknesses that have been found in the Volume License Versions that are currently in use.

          Even the Complete Office 2007 isn’t Vista Compatible try loading the Accounting Package and see what you are told by the installer. It goes something like this [i]”This piece of software relies on SQL 2005 which is not Vista Compatible so it will not work in this case.”[/i] That was as of 2 weeks ago now with the latest release of the Accounting Package for Office 2007. They might even get it fixed by 30 January 007 but as that will require a complete rewrite of SQL I doubt it somehow. And as MS has no release data for the Vista Server Products I think that it will be much longer for a solution to that little problem.

          Currently as things stand M$ is claiming that Vista & Office 007 is the biggest thing that they have released since Windows 95 and as we already know that a part of this new Application [b]Will Not[/b] work with Vista it’s being released as an add on to be applied to XP after Office 007 has been installed on that platform. Even M$ doesn’t expect business to take up Vista quickly though they would like it to it’s just not going to happen. They will be relying on the Game Players to report bugs for the first 12 months or so and the very few Business/Government Departments who they can talk into installing both Vista and Office 007 As Soon As they become available and to get this M$ will be offering vast cash incentives for these corporations to take up Vista & Office 007.

          I only know of one Government Department who will be doing this everyone else is prepared to sit and wait to see what happens.

          The days when people Que outside stores for days waiting to buy the latest version of Windows are long gone and as my desktop calender said this year [b]MICROSOFT = Most Intelligent People Realise Our Software Only Fools Teenagers.[/b] They are not my words but I did get a good laugh out of that thought of the day.

          Col

        • #2487275

          HAL for themost part I agree but GREETZ was not defending MS

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Well software design & source code testing

          gsaravin says he has a PH’d in programing but from he is posting I don’t think so. Greetz was just pointing a few facts out to him on the way to design and implement a program.
          Now on your posting
          Did MS start by having too much to include in Longhorn-heck yes-they even admit it.
          Are there still bugs in Vista-hxxl yes-but to have perfect software they could debug for 50 years and not find them all. Is Vista stable-yep I have not found any faults yet-but according to gsaravin I should have by now.
          Will all the bugs be fixed-nope
          Will enterprise take up Vista/Office most likely not till after the test-test-get their spacific applications working which may take a while.
          As far as meetings-you can bet as they are working on RC’s they are having daily meetings discussing latest bugs that have been found and who needs to work together.
          Mike

        • #2487090
          Avatar photo

          Actually Michael that’s exactly what M$ has said

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Well software design & source code testing

          I was just repeating what we’ve been told at Partner meetings and the like straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

          The main problem with Vista has been a lack of communication between the different departments which has pushed back the release date somewhat and yes M$ is now addressing this problem. But from everything that they have said and sent out other than their Product Development Manager Bill Gates there doesn’t appear to be anyone overseeing the entire project. That applies even now though I do understand that Bill Gates replacement is taking a larger part in that task.

          I haven’t seen too many problems in the RTM product yet other than some software that I can not load but to be fair I’m only using the 32 Bit version the real test will come when we start to deploy the 64 Bit version and see what happens. I’m defiantly booking myself into Hospital with [b]Information Overload[/b] when that happens as even if I was to take a holiday I would constantly be flattening the battery in my Mobile Phone taking calls, the hospital will prevent anyone ringing me to ask questions that I don’t know the answer to so it’s safer. 🙂

          I actually out of a sheer sense of terror or misguided apprehension bought a 5 license copy of Vista Ultimate 32 Bit but I’m only testing it at this point in time and I didn’t trust the 64 Bit version to have the available drivers that I need so I took the lesser of 2 evils route.

          While it’s a bit of a resource hog what’s new every new M$ OS has been this way. So I don’t see this as necessarily bad just a [b]Fact Of Life[/b] like every previous version of Windows unless you insist on looking at ME which I try very hard to ignore completely.

          Actually I’m waiting to see the new Red Screen of Death if it’s included as M$ was pushing the fact that the BSOD is no more I just hope that the Red isn’t so bright that you are blinded by it when it crops up. Though to be perfectly honest I honestly expect to see this with the 64 Bit Version before the 32 Bit one so I’m not holding my breath.

          Actually the way that M$ developed Vista is the correct way to work but they really needed more interaction between the different departments involved and that’s been their biggest problem. Kind of reminds me of when I worked at IBM just before they hit the dust pile they worked exactly the same way.

          Col

        • #2489297

          well michael there you go insulting me again!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well gsaravin I know what I see

          but you’ll say that i’m insulting you,whatever if you bothered to read the latest blog from george ou that he is more than likely staying off vista as a main operating system as there are far too many unresolved problems.That is what i have been saying for the last 6 months.How can ms waste
          5 years & produce vista prior to june was a huge disaster & then weeks later after a mad scramble anounce to the world that they have a much stable System.I don’t beleive them then I don’t beleive them now.
          ta mick

        • #2505824

          Well you make it too easy

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well michael there you go insulting me again!

          You give what you say is source code but it looks like no source code I have seen.
          You give benchmarks but give no benchmark program so your facts can be varified.
          You do a cut and paste of articles that support your position but again no url.
          As far as George Ou-if you had read all of the posts by him-you would have noticed that he is staying off Vista till he builds a new pc.
          Mike

        • #2505854

          well michael it is pure & simple unless you admit

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well michael there you go insulting me again!

          that vista is crap at the moment,why should i repeat what i have stated before i have shown what benchmarkin i use & other source coding software analysis.if you bother to read this thread you will see my methodology.
          I’ts not cut & paste & its not what you think it is.So stop insulting me weigh the evidence!!Have a leap of faith!
          ta mick
          please no insulting remarks as i’m a genteel person & i’ve copped enough crap!

        • #2504510

          Mick You have never told us the benchmark program you used

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well michael there you go insulting me again!

          According to you I would not be able to run Vista 24/7 without problems. Let alone burn a pre recorded tv movie-watch tv-surf the internet all at the same time with no problems. I also do this more than a few times in a weeks time.
          As far as George- he said that he will be holding off on Vista till he builds a new computer as I have said before here and in his blog, I think his problems are due to hardware(motherboard).
          Vista is very stable and does all I askon bothof my pc’s(homebuilt).
          (no insult just fact)
          Mike

    • #2487674

      GSARAVIN really has the SOURCE CODE then.

      by now left tr ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      In that case I have reported this fact and pointed out this thread to MS. Being a Gold Partner this is a duty of my company. MS will no doubt contact TR and then use them to trace GSARAVIN. Enjoy your day in the dock.

      MS – what is that then – My Supervisor?
      My Superior?
      My Software?

      • #2487656

        my god you are dumb techmal whether or not i have the source code is

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to GSARAVIN really has the SOURCE CODE then.

        immaterial who cares,i don’t care it’s a pile of shit.I don’t want it do you??? you can have it.All i’m saying is that vista is a worthless piece of shit.I don’t really care for vista i have done nothing illegal it’s all ligit benchmarking,testing etc anyone can do it given the right tools.I have not brokren any
        laws & some of my best friends are from ms!!
        I don’t hate ms I just hate the shit they put out.
        ta mick

        • #2487634

          Ah Well…

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to my god you are dumb techmal whether or not i have the source code is

          It will not be a problem when they come calling for you then.

          EDIT: Having the Vista Source Code is illegal and I’m 100% sure MS feel the same.
          But as you say – you are covered so no need to worry.

        • #2487599
          Avatar photo

          Answer this one then if you DARE!!

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Ah Well…

          Who is the bigger Criminal the person who claims to have breached a companies directive that may not be legally binding or the person who actually breaks a Countries Law?

          Just because you live in one part of the world doesn’t prevent [b]Deportation Action[/b] being brought against you for a breach of another countries Law. But don’t worry it’s only a 25 year Jail Term with no possibility of Parole as this is Federal Law not State Law so you don’t have to worry about some lousy State getting upset with your actions just a country. 😀

          If I was you I would be editing everything now and hoping that TR don’t take Generational Backup’s so you just may escape the [b]Illegal Activity[/b] that you have undertaken. :^0

          Col

        • #2487587

          Your logic is flawed

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Answer this one then if you DARE!!

          You can drink beer from 18 in my country.
          In the US it is 21-25.

          So by having a drink when at 18 in my country (and posting a video of such on youtube) I have broken a Law in the US.

          Yet you claim the US can request my deportation for this non-crime in my own country?

          Errrm…NO !!!

        • #2487576
          Avatar photo

          I wouldn’t have a clue about US Law

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Your logic is flawed

          And I don’t even claim to have any knowledge of US Law.

          But I do know and so should you if you are from GB that when an International Crime is committed just because you don’t live in the country that you committed it in doesn’t mean that you get off Scott Free.

          You my friend are a [b]FRAUD[/b] and deserve to be brought down as such. I don’t like bullies or thugs both of which you have shown yourself to be by the above post and a Liar as well so I’m not overly interested in what your silly opinion is only what’s right.

          But this I do know about US Law if you are under whatever the age is go to the US and drink alcohol you are directly under their law and are treated as such. Though as a Pommie Git they would probably prefer to Deport you that have you clog up their jail/legal system. 🙂

          Just sit and watch the AU Federal Police come knocking and then see if you still have the same attitude that you have now. 😀 :^0 😀 :^0 😀 :^0

          OH BTW AU Feds in GB will be accompanied by their Pommie Counter Parts who will be the ones who make the arrest and you’ll be held for a [b]Deportation Hearing[/b] not for the actual crime that you have committed. That I understand is for AU LAW!

          [b]FRAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!![/b]

          Col

        • #2487572

          SLANDER!!

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to I wouldn’t have a clue about US Law

          That my friend is Slander.

          I see no international crime in my above posts but I do see a bout of Slander from you. Slander is big on the UK law books.

        • #2489642

          i fully agree hal our federal police are much tougher than

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I wouldn’t have a clue about US Law

          British police or us police.Tech mal will be beaten by our cops by far.
          Not like the British cops “ello ello what’s this then??”
          ta mick

        • #2489646

          us law does not cover australian law & by the way

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Ah Well…

          i don’t think that i have done anything wrong i have tested vista using ms testing software & other software development Analysis of errors & used common benchmarking software.So i have not broken any rules merely analysed & benchmarked vista is that a crime!!
          You are simply jumping the gun & are ready to shoot the messenger& not heed the message.
          ta mick

      • #2487606
        Avatar photo

        Who’s the Gold Partner?

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to GSARAVIN really has the SOURCE CODE then.

        You or the company that you claim to work for? There is a very big difference between the two you know.

        Could [b]The TechMail[/b] be claiming to be something that it’s not here?

        Incidentally it’s not the duty of any M$ Partner Gold or otherwise to report that someone claims to have the Source Code for a M$ Product to M$ in another part of the world if you are really so well versed in all things M$ why do you not just read the EULA it’s actually all in there that you promise not to [b]Reverse Engineer[/b] the product and gain access to the [b]Source Code.[/b] Yes that’s right we all could get it if we are interested enough to bother to waste our [b]Time & Effort.[/b] This in itself is OK provided that it doesn’t breach [b]International Law or Country Law[/b] where the product has had this done to it.

        OH BTW The TechMail by posting that you have contacted M$ and passed this thread onto them is a breach of the [b]AU Post & Telecommunications Act[/b] so you should be deported and charged to the full letter of the LAW in AU. Did you even think about that before you made this silly post? Remember that one of the UK people where Deported to the US recently for Crimes against Computers for Hacking and he only had the [b]Idiot’s Guide to Hacking[/b] and a bit of time to waste.

        Then you have the Education Institution’s who regularly look into this type of thing and work with M$ in an attempt to improve their products. Do you want to report [b]Every University in the World who runs a Computer Science Course as well?[/b]

        Get your head out of your A$$ and smell the roses before you look even more of a fool than you already are. Perhaps I may suggest the heavy use of the [b]Edit[/b] feature here to make yourself look slightly more sane.

        As you have just committed an [b]International Crime[/b] I suggest that you pack your bags and move very quickly because if someone makes a complaint to the right Authorities you are in [b]Big Trouble[/b] with nowhere to run for protection.

        [b]Poor Deluded Boy[/b] [i]Gold Partner Yea Right.[/i] :^0 😀 :^0 😀 :^0 😀

        Col

        [i]OH BTW I’ve forwarded on a copy of your original posting along with the relevant part of the legislation to the Authorities in AU so I suppose that means that an Official Complaint has been made and I’ll forward the same onto TR as well so that if questioned they are not unknowing Accomplices to your Criminal Activity. Enjoy the attention I’m sure that’s what you actually wanted.[/i]

        • #2487593

          Ermm…

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Who’s the Gold Partner?

          The company I work for is a GP – plain & simple.

          This is a US Site
          I’m not in the US or (god forbid) AU.
          Therefore no law has been compromised.
          (My country — to the US site)

          Perhaps it is you that should check the facts before mouthing off.

          And the EULA has nothing to do with being a GP company or reporting stolen Source Code. The EULA is for using the software. Vista is not out in my country so there is no EULA for any Vista retail versions yet!

          Go scribble your brand of ‘graftiit’ elsewhere you wannabee…

        • #2487588
          Avatar photo

          THANK YOU VERY MUCH

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Ermm…

          If only you knew better you would be dangerous.

          But if this helps I’m sure no I’m actually positive that was the same flawed defence used in the recent case where the UK citizen was deported to the US for breaking into computers there.

          Col

        • #2487585

          “breaking into computers”

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to THANK YOU VERY MUCH

          That is a crime in both the US & my country.
          Some text on a web forum does not constitute a law break in US or UK unless it is slander.

        • #2487556

          End of Message Thread

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to “breaking into computers”

          .

        • #2487555

          End of Message Thread 2

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to End of Message Thread

          .

        • #2489633

          sure thing & pigs may fly you’ll be back

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to End of Message Thread

          you know this thread is better than the others because it’s most popular.
          Like i said you’ll be back….
          ta mick
          hasta la vista …baby!

        • #2487418
          Avatar photo

          Well firstly the person in question wasn’t charged with Hacking

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to “breaking into computers”

          But with one of the post 9-11 Laws of using the countries Infrastructure against the good of the country namely the Telecommunications system. :p

          I’m not exactly sure which piece of new legislation that was used in this case but either something like the [b]Patriot Act[/b] or the [b]Homeland Security Act.[/b] I’m sure that one of the US Peers can answer that question quite easily. ?:|

          The UK has some very similar laws because as you should know they been at war with the IRA for well over 25 years now so they need some Intelligence so they used the Telecommunications System to gather the Intelligence and make it legal to use as evidence in court. In this respect I believe that the UK has beaten the US by a long margin in Draconian Legislation. But to be fair to the Poms they did have a much longer start to bring in this Legislation. :p

          OH about the other thing as you didn’t strenuously defend yourself you are guilty by omission. If you fail to answer perfectly valid questions put to you, about the claims that you make about yourself you have no one but yourself to blame when someone takes your lead and comes to a opinion about your character by your inaction and Grandiose Claims. ;\

          Incidentally if you are tyring to get a laugh it helps no end to add some funny Emotions to the post so you are not taken seriously. If you don’t know where to find the available emotions here is a link to the TR’s Site B-)

          http://tinyurl.com/yzrj69

          The only thing that you need look out for is that the o’s have been replaced by Zeros to make the emotions work. You might like top Book Mark it for future reference. 🙂

          Col ]:)

        • #2489637

          i have to agree with you hal, Tech mail has done it this time

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Who’s the Gold Partner?

          I think he will have to be deported to face the music probable spend 25 years in long bay maximum.
          ta mick

        • #2489627

          One Slight Problem with that..

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to i have to agree with you hal, Tech mail has done it this time

          As You say:

          “us law does not cover australian law”

        • #2489622

          ok smart guy you’ve been on the plonk again

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to One Slight Problem with that..

          international law applies & australia is a cosiganatory to a lot of treaties & coventions & recprocal law & you will be still deported!!!
          ta mick

        • #2489617

          Deported Eh?

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to ok smart guy you’ve been on the plonk again

          Extradition is different from deportation. Extradition is a process countries use to force a person to face a criminal process in a particular country. Deportation is one of the ways used to remove a person from a country for immigration purposes.

          I’m not in the AU so how exactly are you going to deport me?

        • #2489613

          HAL 9000 – Deported!! LOL?

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Who’s the Gold Partner?

          Extradition is different from deportation. Extradition is a process countries use to force a person to face a criminal process in a particular country. Deportation is one of the ways used to remove a person from a country for immigration purposes.

          So I can’t be deported HAL as I was born here – I have the right to stay. You don’t know the difference do you? I suggest you stop now before you make a further fool of yourself.

          As you have reported my ‘text post’ I have passed you slander comments on to my private lawyer for review. I’m sure I will have more luck than your attempt to get the government to take up any case based on a forum post on the web. My lawyer will be in touch with Dan at CNET Networks, Inc. in due process…

          Guess what – no message was sent to MS about source code – or was it?

          All you have now is some text describing an action that may or may have hot happened.

          I still have my slander case. Just so you know – the pages have been archived as evidence so changing your postings will not help matters.

          ONE LAST THING:

          By forwarding a copy of this thread to the AU Government and TR you have committed the very crime you are reporting!

        • #2489588
          Avatar photo

          Really?

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to HAL 9000 – Deported!! LOL?

          I tried to use small words that someone like you may understand not the proper legal terms as someone who has been at the M$ Teat long enough to become a [b]Gold Partner[/b] brain has already turned to mush. Even if they just claim to be that and are nothing at all in any way related to M$ through a business argument.

          As for this quote [i]ONE LAST THING: By forwarding a copy of this thread to the AU Government and TR you have committed the very crime you are reporting![/i]

          I’m sorry but you lost me completely as you quite rightly say US Law doesn’t apply in this case and [b]As a Loyal Citizen of the Crown[/b] I’m duty bound to report Criminal Activity when I see it happen. I’m sure the same applies in the UK so what exactly have I done wrong?

          BTW have you looked up the meaning of Slander & Libel in a dictionary lately? I wouldn’t expect you to know that there is a difference but feel free to pay your Solicitor/Barrister/QC all you like the money coming out of your hip pocket not mine. 😀

          Col

        • #2489568

          OK Enough is Enough

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Really?

          Don’t have any more time to create any more. So are you GSARAVIN as well then?
          If not why is GSA getting involved?

          I win the Deportation meaning
          You win the Slander meaning.

          fin

        • #2489525
          Avatar photo

          No Sorry I’m defiantly not GSARAVIN

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to OK Enough is Enough

          I don’t actually have a clue who he is either.

          I also don’t necessarily agree with him on some points but I did get a good laugh out of the supposed code that was posted. 😀

          From my prospective the 32 Bit Version of Vista is almost workable from a Business prospective and when some of the more important third party applications are modified it might be worth the change but I would still caution for at least 12 to 18 months before adopting it on a business wide scale.

          The 64 Bit version which is what I think this thread was originally started over currently is a waste of time & effort. While it’s stable enough it doesn’t support anywhere enough hardware to be usable by a long shot yet and if anything is worse than the 64 Bit version of XP. At least with that I could setup a Media Centre box and have it working provided that I avoid a printer and scanner and some of the more high end internals that are available.

          As for GSA I can’t really tell you what his motivations are could be something as simple as wanting to keep [b]The Ashes[/b] here so it’s bash a POM week this week. Sorry but I don’t know what’s going on there. :8}

          Actually the entire thing as degenerated so I’ve been biting my tongue quite a bit and not injecting any hummer into this mess. Your post above just hit me after a very bad day with a 2003 ES Server so I was more than a bit short tempered. Actually today hasn’t been much better but at least I now know that the light I see at the end of the tunnel isn’t the solution it’s an express train travelling at top speed about to run me down. 😀

          I actually hope that you’ve having a better day than I’ve had [i]got to remember the time deference here.[/i] The only thing that hasn’t gone wrong is the hardware is still working pity that the software installed on it isn’t. :^0

          Anyway Cheers and have a good remainder of the day where you are.

          Col ]:)

        • #2507329

          what’s happening any news on vista so far??

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to No Sorry I’m defiantly not GSARAVIN

          i think it is a bit early but peoplewill see vista is a waste of space.
          ta mick

        • #2507327

          on the subject of gsaravin i think michael could be the one

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to No Sorry I’m defiantly not GSARAVIN

          yea yea & he signs as michael or mick heried??? the cat;’s out of the bag.

    • #2487405

      TheTechMail = Bush Lawyer????

      by marchred ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I was just reading a blog entry by George Ou which quite openly suggests that Vista is far from suitable at the moment … which made me cast my mind back to this thread, so I decided to come back and see if it had reached a logical conclusion

      I have to confess to being mildly entertained by the latest posts, which appear to have nothing to do with the merits (or otherwise) of Vista, but are nevertheless amusing.

      Slander, TheTechMail??? If you are going to play the Bush Lawyer you need to do two things – check your legal terminology and make sure the “charge” is appropriate.

      Firstly, slander is the ?… oral communication of false statements injurious to a person’s reputation?. I believe that you are actually inferring that you have been libelled – for libel is a ?… false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person’s reputation?.

      Second, given that you have provided no information in your profile which allows anyone to identify you, you have the cloak of anonymity ergo you have no reputation which can be damaged. So I doubt that you have even been libelled.

      I do apologise for being somewhat petty in this post, but as we all know, in matters of law, one needs to be pedantic.

      • #2489703

        Almost as funny as

        by now left tr ·

        In reply to TheTechMail = Bush Lawyer????

        The AU Post & Telecommunications Act charge by HAL 9000 for a forum post.

        Oh &:

        slan?der /ˈsl?ndər/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[slan-der] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation
        ?noun
        1. defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.

        2. a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.

        3. Law. defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc.
        ?verb (used with object)

        4. to utter slander against; defame.
        ?verb (used without object)

        5. to utter or circulate slander.

        noun
        1. words falsely spoken that damage the reputation of another

        2. an abusive attack on a person’s character or good name [syn: aspersion]

        verb
        1. charge falsely or with malicious intent; attack the good name and reputation of someone; “The journalists have defamed me!” “The article in the paper sullied my reputation” [syn: defame]

        I THINK I WAS CORRECT IN THE USE OF THE TERM.
        GOOGLE “NEWSPAPER SLANDER CASES” TO SEE MORE EXAMPLES

        • #2489570

          Want to know what is really funny-take a good close look

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Almost as funny as

          at what gsaravin purports to be source code for Vista-I know enough about programmin to know that ain’t it.
          He also says that Vista is unstable. If so how come I can run Vista 24/7 with no problems but according to him I should not be able to.
          His benchmarks show that Vista should be noticibly slower than Xp. But in a side by side comparison of them-there is no noticable differance in speed.
          He also does not name thebenchmark program he used to get those benchmarks so they can be varified.
          For many posts he said he used programs to check Vista-saying it had many errors. I tried many times to get him to list programs he used to test, when hefinally listed them-I noticed that with all the programs-you HAD to have the source code to use those programs on.
          Suddenly he says he has the source code. Plus he says he got it from his friends at MS. Do you really think there is really any chance in h**l that he would have it.
          Mike

        • #2489545
          Avatar photo

          Him personally having a copy of the source code NO

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to Want to know what is really funny-take a good close look

          The Education Institution that he attends most likely they have part of it. That he has access to for his classes.

          While someone can have access to something doesn’t necessarily mean that they actually have a copy of it or that they can copy it only that they can use it for whatever purposes that they need it for or that their Professors instruct them to test against.

          Maybe he’s wasted his time & effort and reverse engineered an install Disc and worked up the source code from there. While M$ doesn’t encourage this practise and actively tries to discourage it, here it’s not illegal to do provided that you don’t start to make money off a Copyrighted item. Any Post Grad Student would know this already and would in all likely hood have access to some of the code provided under supervision by M$ for teaching purposes. I know that when I’ve attended the local Uni I’ve been offered to be shown part of Windows Source Code but I’m not interested. However I would tend to believe this is the same part that is sold by M$ to third party software makers to allow for better security on the Windows Platform.

          If I was still programing things might be different but I walked away from that a long time ago and don’t want to revisit the place again. Universities have access to items that the general public don’t it’s a simple fact of life and can not be disputed.

          But I’ll admit to getting a good laugh out of the supposed Posted Code which doesn’t follow any real programing mythology closely enough to be believed but it was good for a laugh and close enough to actually look like something that M$ would produce.

          I’ve been to classes run by M$ where I’ve assembled Ink from scratch in VB which I suppose is classified information by M$ to the general public and while I did have a hard copy of the INK Code I’ve long since trashed it I really can’t even remember if we where given a copy to take home or not all I remember about that day is the Programmer from M$ who was a Nice Guy that I still keep in touch with and writing the entire thing in C++ very quickly and had it working properly with a much smaller footprint than the VB Code.

          But that was 2 or 3 years ago now maybe even longer I really can not remember the date or year just the class.

          Col

      • #2489652

        i have to agree with you no one has the right to slander another person

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to TheTechMail = Bush Lawyer????

        but under a cloak of anonimity they do it.
        The reason this thread has turnedthis way is that nobody has done any serious testing ,no one questions what ms has done.They are ready to swallow hook line & sinker.I would rather see experienced people say hey we have tested the op system vista it’s good ‘bad or indifferent.I’m getting a bunch of fence sitters with the exception of a few committed individuals hal & mike.I would like nothing more to be proven wrong but no one is game to do it.
        no i have to concur with you they get their kicks out of slandering people.
        ta mick

        • #2489634

          GSA?

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to i have to agree with you no one has the right to slander another person

          The slander was against me – I have ‘slandered’ no person here.

        • #2489626

          your brain may be reaching it’s use by date

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to GSA?

          GSA stands for go suck ags(eggs) that’s for you because you wasting everyones time when you could make worthwhile comments.So you limit yourself to slandering people grow up or you will be deported!!
          ta mick

        • #2489625

          To where???

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to your brain may be reaching it’s use by date

          A Penal Colony?

          Oh, wait…

        • #2489619

          you will be deported to a colony such as australia

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to To where???

          & you can play with your dingaling for the rest of your natural life.
          ta MIck

        • #2489604

          Deported!

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to you will be deported to a colony such as australia

          LOL

        • #2489578

          yes you will be reported & deported to queensland

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to you will be deported to a colony such as australia

          to face the music where hal will personally administer the cat o nine tails along with the 200 lashes&then to nsw where you will be hung upside down for 24 hours untill you confess your transgressions.
          ta mick

        • #2489574

          after the land of oz you will go to the usa where mike & the team

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to you will be deported to a colony such as australia

          will put you in a boxing ring with mike alias
          (tyson).Where he will administer 1000well laid punches for defaming & slandering the good old usa & where you will be made sorry for your transgressions & then thrown in the lockup with the key thrown away.
          ta mick

        • #2489534
          Avatar photo

          NO NO NOT TO Queensland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to you will be deported to a colony such as australia

          I’ve already worked for one deported POM and he drove me nuts. Apparently he drove Maggi Nuts as well that’s why he was deported/transported.

          It took that Winging Pommie Barsteward 2 years to wreck the company and then he took off to travel around AU in his luxury Mobile Home. He only lasted a little over a day as on the second one he killed both himself & wife when he hit a tree. Apparently having to drive 300 miles was too much for him to handle but of course he expected me to drive thousands of miles and be as fresh as a daisy when I arrived there. No more plane trips to long away places when you could drive there quite easily.

          I really don’t think the poor sod ever realised just how big this place actually is, or more importantly just how far away from help you can be when it’s needed. Apparently when he didn’t arrive at his destination they waited a day or two and then sent out a search party to find the bodies. Not something that I would have liked to have done after 3 days roasting in the summer heat it would have been a lovely smell and I’m betting that the poor sods who where sent out thought that they where looking for a breakdown.

          Col

    • #2489440

      Back to the VISTA topic ….

      by marchred ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I have no need to be on the leading edge of IT technical development, so I leave it to the more courageous pioneers to make the brave forays and like a true scavenger I come along afterwards and reap the benefit of their battle.

      So, while I have not installed VISTA, nor do I intend to for the moment as XP meets my requirements, I have followed the comments on it’s worthiness on this thread. Some of it has been filibuster – interspersed with some quite amusing personal asides – and a lot of the comments have been tempered with the “beta” caveat.

      I note however that in a recent blog entry, George Ouhas given VISTA the temporary thumbs down.

      • #2489383
        Avatar photo

        Surely not here are some reports written by M$

        by hal 9000 ·

        In reply to Back to the VISTA topic ….

        And since they made it they should know. :^0

        http://tinyurl.com/bxpy2

        http://tinyurl.com/ch79e

        http://tinyurl.com/qotjb

        http://tinyurl.com/y8y5bq

        http://tinyurl.com/y43mj3

        http://tinyurl.com/7vqqq

        Of course some people might dismiss these out of hand as not being independent but if the maker doesn’t know what their product does who should? 😀

        Col

        • #2489304

          hey hal have you read george ou’s blog jan 8

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Surely not here are some reports written by M$

          he is now not very happy with vista & i don’t think he likes it.More problems than you can poke a stick at.
          Well either ms knows it’s products & is not letting people on or it doesn’t
          ta mick

        • #2489208
          Avatar photo

          No I actually haven’t read George’s account

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to hey hal have you read george ou’s blog jan 8

          But he knows what he’s doing and I wouldn’t be starting an argument with him as he tends to back up his observations and if asked can elaborate quite well.

          God he jumped on me when I was agreeing with him so I wouldn’t make any direct attacks on him or his opinions but others who like to start fights and enjoy them are welcome to try it on with George and then crawl away to lick their wounds clean and try to prevent infection. 😀

          Col

        • #2489151

          No i woul’dnt tangle with him he is the god of it!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to No I actually haven’t read George’s account

          I just responded not to say he’s wrong but to say that 6 months ago he stated huge praises on vista i just said i told you so.
          I would not dare disagree with him merely to state the obvious & hoping good sense prevails.Now with mike & his vista well after reading george ou’s blog hope he comes around & realises that there are huge problems in vista>vista might be ok to muck around at home with the home pc but no business would risk using it as a main op system vista has a long way to go & it’s not the same because manufacturers are way ahead
          of the software & ms has a long time to make up for the shortfall.The poor consumer will suffer!
          ta mick

        • #2505887

          All OU’s problems listed

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to No i woul’dnt tangle with him he is the god of it!

          related to media and media playing. Not a business critical function in most corp shops.

        • #2504591

          it may seem media but there are other problems bugs etc

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to All OU’s problems listed

          to quote george “but there are still too many issues for me to want to use Vista.”
          I wouldn’t use vista in my business or any other business nor would i recommend for someone to use it.
          ta mick

      • #2489340

        hah

        by lindfalas ·

        In reply to Back to the VISTA topic ….

        Well you cant blame Vista if you have bad hardware.
        I never had any of the problem he writes about.
        And most part its Medial Player or Media Center that he has problem with.
        There is alot more things in Vista or any other OS.
        Its just to funny to read.
        I have build many 100 of pc, so I have ofcource build my own pc as well.
        So if it was a bug in vista I would have the same foult.. I dont…

        Greetz

      • #2489306

        i have to agree with you entirely,I have just read george

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Back to the VISTA topic ….

        ou’s thread & he just about agrees now that what i said months ago he poo poed my ideas
        & said the opposite,i know i was right.
        The thing is marchred I’m not against ms or it’s products in as much i support xp & vista has got huge problems which some people don’t beleive.How could Ms procrastinate with longhorn(vista)os for five years which was up to June 06 a complete failure & then turnaround in a matter of weeks produce a so called near perfect os system??
        the truth is ms must think us consumers are so gullible or stupid or both.
        ta mick

        • #2489206

          As a matter of fact I have-I even posted a few comments myself

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i have to agree with you entirely,I have just read george

          there. I think all the problems he is having is hardware related.
          In 2004 Jim Allchin decided that using the XP kernal they would not be able to do what they wanted. So they switched to the Server 2003 kernal.
          When I joined the Beta Team in July 2005, Longhorn was stable, my only problem was that my chipsets/systems were not supported yet. Then starting in Febuary of 2006 both of my systems chipsets had driver support. At this time Vista WAS stable but noticibly slower than XP. This was because of the debug software in the OS plus the code had not been optimized yet. In July I finally found a tv card that worked in Vista. From that time on I spent 80% or more time in VIsta, also at this time the OS was stable and it did all it was designed for. I only found a few bugs but i know others found more.
          For the RC’s the OS was noticibly faster-very stable and I found ony one bug. It was faster because at RC MS starts removing the debug programs and optimizing the code.
          So gsaravin it was a lot more than a few weeks.
          As far as insulting you again-you insulted everyone by your so called “Source code revealed” post.
          I’m still wondering why you won’t reveal the benchmark program you used to benchmark XP/Vista. What’s the matter don’t you have the program.
          Mike

        • #2505851

          well michael you would be classed as one of the better beta testers of ms

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to As a matter of fact I have-I even posted a few comments myself

          This is the news announcement back in june:”60% Of Windows Vista Code To Be Rewritten

          David Richards – 12 June, 2006

          Up to 60% of the code in the new consumer version of Microsoft new Vista operating system is set to be rewritten as the Company “scrambles” to fix internal problems a Microsoft insider has confirmed.

          In an effort to meet a dealine of the 2007 CES show in Las Vegas Microsoft has pulled programmers from the highly succesful Xbox team to help resolve many problems associated with entertainment and media centre functionality inside the OS. The team are also working closely with engineers from the Intel Viiv team. and it is now expected that the next version of Viiv could be delayed to line up with the launch of the consumer version of Vista at the 2007 CES Show in Las Vegas.

          One of the key components of the consumer version of Vista is the Media Centre code. This will be an optional package in the same way that Microsoft currently sell a Professional and Home version of XP. With Vista there will not be a seperate Media Centre SKU.

          Microsoft has also admitted that it has major problems in it’s Windows division and has has immediatly initiated a total restructure of the division, a move that comes after a costly delay in rolling out its Vista program.

          The company has said that it is restructuring its Platforms & Services Division and ‘enhancing’ the leadership team. At the heart of the changes is the elevation of Steven Sinofsky to senior vice president of the Windows and Windows Live Group. ‘Steven`s leadership, management and technical skills are well documented and evident in the kinds of products he ships and the type of work environment he creates,’ said Ray Ozzie, Microsoft`s chief technology officer.

          ‘I`m looking forward to working with Steven and his team in delivering software-based services that extend the value of our offerings by providing a more seamless connection between our desktop products and the Web.’ Analysts estimate that Microsoft`s delays in releasing the next generation of its operating system, known as Vista, have cost it about $500 million.

          Well just throwing money at a problem is not the answer when you have huge technical problems it’s a race against the clock.
          well michael i hope you got that!
          ta mick

        • #2505833

          gsaravine I think you had better read this-rewrite HOGWASH

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well michael you would be classed as one of the better beta testers of ms

          “Rewrite 60% of Windows? Hogwash!
          Out of Australia comes the report that up to 60% of Windows Vista will need a rewrite. What utter crap! 60% of Windows is millions and millions of lines of code. You can?t rewrite that much code, and ship in January. Maybe January 2009 if a 60% rewrite is needed, but not January 2007. Perhaps Microsoft is in denial, and Vista will never ship, or perhaps reporter Dave Richards is a tad too quick to jump on “the sky is falling” bandwagon.”
          Oh and the article this came from
          http://saunderslog.com/2006/03/24/rewrite-60-of-windows-hogwash/
          Unlike you I post the url of what I copy and paste.
          Mike

        • #2504608

          yes michael ms did have to rewrite their source code

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gsaravine I think you had better read this-rewrite HOGWASH

          crap, did they really??& yes after all this time you not admitting that vista is crap, i take back my comment about you being a good tester.I don’t think so. You not drinking booze is enough to drive any one to drink,you are so serious that you need a drink & realise that vista is crap.
          ta mick
          (no insults thank you.)

        • #2504537

          In other words from 24 March to April 24-they had to re write

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to yes michael ms did have to rewrite their source code

          millions of lines of code before issueing build 5365. Sorry but that would have been impossible. By the way the next Beta 2 was issued about one month(May 22) later-still impossible.
          I’m still asking what is the benchmark program? If you are so sure of your facts you should not be affraid of somebody verifying them.
          (no insult just facts)
          Mike

        • #2504415

          crap.

          by lindfalas ·

          In reply to yes michael ms did have to rewrite their source code

          Dont blame Vista to be crap, its you that lie and cant test system.
          You dont have the source code.
          You dont want to share information about the benchmark and what kind of computer you have tested vista on.
          You dont say anything about how XP was when you did( or not) the benchmark.

          It time for you do show the profe you claim to have. If you dont, you are the crappy one..

          Greetz

        • #2504768

          in answer to crap linfalas,your remarks are just insulting

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to yes michael ms did have to rewrite their source code

          to me.
          “Dont blame Vista to be crap, its you that lie and cant test system”.reply I have tested it it is crap.You can see the resultson these threads.
          “You dont have the source code”.NO one person holds the source code.What i have is priveledged that when i had my studies for a doctorate i was a priveledged person.I was able to access details in relation to my thesis.It’s something that an ordinary person like yourselves cannot have because it’s priveledge.It’s like saying give me the combination to the fort knox or the bank
          of england etc.Similarly a developer or programmer does not divulge their benchmarking methods.Unless it’s for a publication etc.
          See i can see where you guys are coming from
          you want answers but it’s not easy to get priveledged information.

          “You dont want to share information about the benchmark and what kind of computer you have tested vista on.”I did state elsewhere that i did run vista on common available hardware It’s immaterial to say what the specifics were when the outcome would be the same correlation.
          “You dont say anything about how XP was when you did( or not) the benchmark.”I did say that xp offers more stablity over vista.

          “It time for you do show the profe you claim to have. If you dont, you are the crappy one..” well there you go insulting me i have given you ample proof & you don’t beleive
          it so it virtually comes to whom you are going to beleive.I have been right so far.

          ta mick

        • #2486570

          gsaravin IF you had access to VIsta source code from MS

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to yes michael ms did have to rewrite their source code

          “What i have is priveledged that when i had my studies for a doctorate i was a priveledged person.I was able to access details in relation to my thesis.It’s something that an ordinary person like yourselves cannot have because it’s priveledge.It’s like saying give me the combination to the fort knox or the bank.”

          I have seen the contracts that a person or corporation has to sign in order to get access to the source code. This contract would also be binding in nil, AU and cost you a whole lot of money-just because your writting a thesis that MS would just give you the familly jewels-no way.
          First you say you got it from friends at MS and now your saying you got it from MS.
          The source code is valuble property and MS would not do that,
          (yea now I’m insulting and stating fact)
          Mike

        • #2486512

          Ordinary people can surprise you

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to yes michael ms did have to rewrite their source code

          In 1975 I had to go to a Universaty to take a bunch of tests for the Veterns Administration. After taking the tests the proffesor told me that I should go back to school and go for my Doctorate in Electronics. The only problem was I had a wife and 3 kids. There was no way I could go back to school.
          As I said ordinary people may surprise you.
          (just starting fact)

        • #2486455
          Avatar photo

          Or we could look at this members Profile

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to yes michael ms did have to rewrite their source code

          http://tinyurl.com/ya4fly

          A member to TR since Sept 2005 and no actual contributions to the site without an attempt to help a single peer with a problem that they are experiencing and no details in their Profile.

          Maybe the correct profile should read [i][b]Works for M$ Marketing and knows absolutely nothing about anything technical.[/i][/b] But I believe everything that is put in front of me by my fellow workers in the marketing department. [b]OH Great Vista can now slice breed as well as run a computer EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!![/b]

          And Michael I do agree with you that [i]Ordinary People[/i] can do surprising things but I’ve yet to find one of them who writes code as badly as M$ does in their products. Every member of the public not directly connected to M$ tends to write much better code.

          But as an example my brother before his death was a professional photographer who attended a surfing contest for a company who he was working for there he was with several Million $ worth of equipment to get the [b]Perfect[/b] shot that could be published and the 86 year old granny beside him with a $25.00 instamatic camera was the one who’s picture was published as a Cover.

          You just need to be at the right place at the right time nothing more and nothing less.

          But Ordinary People simply lack the resources to play the game with the Big People who spend lots of money to get the right materials for their profession. In the case of Post Grad Students at a University they are allowed to access University Propriety for their work but that in no way implies that they own it or can take copies for themselves as they feel like. Hell the same Post Grad Students here don’t even own the IP of their own work which they have to pay for to do it becomes open source available to anyone interested enough to actually look or the Uni sells it on to make a profit out of either way the person responsible for producing it doesn’t receive a cent for the work that they paid so much to do but others get a financial benefit out of it. This is called [b]Higher Education[/b] teaching you that you are going to get screwed no matter what you do.

          Col

        • #2505827

          I have been told by MS that I am one of the top testers also I don’t drink

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well michael you would be classed as one of the better beta testers of ms

          Alcohol. I’m a Pepsi-holic not a alcoholic. Last time I was drunk was June of 1964 and never again.
          Also I don’t think I’m one of the top testers-I just do the best I can.
          Mike

        • #2504601

          having a drink does not label one as a drunk

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I have been told by MS that I am one of the top testers also I don’t drink

          alcahol in moderation has got medicinal properties especially red wine!
          ta mick

        • #2504600

          having a drink does not label one as a drunk.

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I have been told by MS that I am one of the top testers also I don’t drink

          alcahol in moderation has got medicinal properties especially red wine!
          ta mick

        • #2515041

          ms imposes licensing restrictions on disclosure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to having a drink does not label one as a drunk.

          of vista benchmarking:Several published reports and open-source proponents have raised concerns about this terminology of the Vista license, claiming that it limits the Windows Vista benchmark results that can be published because of the inclusion of the .Net Framework. While benchmarking is still possible, Microsoft is in control of how that information is released, and the company can change the rules on the “conditions” Web site at any time. This could make it difficult for anyone to get a clear idea of how the operating system and certain components perform, critics say.

          “To be in control of what is published seems to be the logical consequence of Microsoft’s policy,” said Joachim Jakobs, a representative for the Free Software Foundation Europe, via e-mail. He cites several instances in which this behavior around benchmarks is consistent with other efforts Microsoft has used to control the use of its software, such as the company’s litigation against companies that it claims violate its patents, and the company’s continuing antitrust tussle with the European Union.

          Microsoft said Tuesday that on Thursday it will clarify issues raised by changes in Vista licensing — including ones around benchmarking. User concerns over Vista licensing began several weeks ago when it was disclosed that, as part of the changes, Microsoft is limiting the number of machines to which users can transfer licenses to one.

          The limitations on .Net Framework benchmarking are not new — they have been around since Microsoft introduced the development framework. But benchmarking and other limitations in Windows Vista bring to light a larger issue about the operating system’s licensing in general, said Michael Cherry, an analyst at Directions on Microsoft in Kirkwood, Washington.

          “My bigger issue with the license in general is that it’s just indecipherable,” he said. “There are a lot of terms that are probably more important to me than benchmarking, but how do I find them among these obscure things that are unclear about what I can or cannot do?”

          Joe Lindsay, CIO at Secured Funding Corp., a mortgage firm in Costa Mesa, Calif., agreed that licenses for commercial software are getting particularly hard to understand, and he thinks it’s driving more people to view open-source as a viable alternative.

          “These licenses are getting increasingly more confusing,” Lindsay said. “Part of the reason people find open-source so appealing is [they think], ‘I just want software. I don’t need a lawyer, I need an OS, some hardware and a programming language and then leave me alone’.”

          However, Lindsay said he wasn’t troubled by any limits on Vista benchmarking, since “most people who?ve been around awhile know that benchmarks are not worth the paper they are printed on.”

          Similarly, Lindsay said he is unfazed by all the hype surrounding the imminent arrival of Vista, saying his company is looking at it but will only upgrade when it can justify the cost.

          “Vista is just an evolution of Windows XP,” he said. “It still requires a mouse, a keyboard and a file system, and it runs Office. Is it really that revolutionary? No. I want it to read my mind. When it can do that, then I?ll be impressed.”
          Well plenty of indication of how low ms will stoop.
          ta mick

        • #2505768
          Avatar photo

          Michael looking at George’s Blog

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to As a matter of fact I have-I even posted a few comments myself

          It looks to me as if he’s testing the 64 Bit version of Vista with the problems that he’s encountering and has even made late comments about some items like the inability to play Ripped DVD’s that you own in Media Centre.

          That isn’t involved in the 32 Bit version of Vista so by the overall tone of the blog I would tend to think it refers to the 64 Bit version not the 32 Bit version which is far more stable & reliable.

          God I’m even telling my customers to buy Vista Ready systems and when Vista becomes available to pay M$ the Shipping & Handling charges for Vista but just not to install it yet till some of the nastier problems have been overcome. Even then I only tell them to look at the 32 Bit version and forget the 64 Bit version as it simply lacks the available drivers & necessary software.

          That’s not something that I can see changing in the short term as users want the ability to play Videos on their computers and not have them blocked by the Draconian Copy Protection that is currently being employed on the 64 Bit version to be [b]Legal[/b] with the Market Demands. That in itself will slow down the deployment of the 64 Bit version to most Home Users as it will not work for them.

          It’s hardly a great way to tempt people to step up to the 64 Bit Platform and play. Without the sales of the 64 Bit OS there will be no need for the hardware makers to write 64 Bit Drivers so the vicious circle will continue just as it has with the 64 Bit version of XP. Yea it’s available but you would need rocks in your head to actually buy it when the 32 Bit version works so much better with a much bigger range of available Hardware.

          Col

        • #2505756

          Well HAL you can tell your customers

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Michael looking at George’s Blog

          a little secret.
          On my pc’s I have 4 hardrives-I dual boot Vista Ultimate x86/64. By installing X86 first and setup- activating. Then the X64 is installed(differant hardrive of course)-guess what-I do not have to activate because it activates it during installing. This is because the hardware and product key are the same.
          Mike

        • #2504606

          well michael you make it all too easy

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well HAL you can tell your customers

          you know that it’s not the same with other people that they have different setups.
          ta mick

        • #2504758

          heres a response from one vista user

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well michael you make it all too easy

          castanet
          [?] The problem with Vista is manyfold. First, it?s not 64-bit programs we have to worry about, it?s 64-bit drivers for all of the peripherals you have. Essentially, if a peripheral (scanner, printer, dongle, etc.) wasn?t being actively sold by the manufacturer in the last year and a half, don?t expect a 64-bit driver any time soon. Anything older than three years or so, don?t expect to find 64-bit drivers at all. Secondly, Vista is an overgrown, overhyped, overstuffed piece of bloatware. MS initially had some really great plans for the product, but when they realized that in order to implement all their great ideas, the release date would have to be pushed back to 2020 or so, they cut 90% of the “great ideas” out of the final product. What you have masquerating as Vista is a slightly more secure copy of XP with nicer graphics but three to four times the system requirements (to really shine, Vista needs a dual-core or quad-core system with 2 Gb of memory and a 250 Gb hard drive? don?t even think of putting Vista on a machine with less than 512 Mb of memory!). Thirdly, what features they did leave in, they managed to bungle. Aero works slowly on even the fastest of graphics cards, and prevents some non-Vista-Approved programs from functioning properly. On top of it, it breaks dozens of usability laws (try determining at a glance which open window is active and in the foreground? it ain?t easy, even for this computer expert! Wait until the Newbies start chuckin their monitors out the window!). Oh, and it?ll only work with separate video cards, not integrated ones. The new security features, lifted from Unix, are perhaps the worst implementation possible – it seems they made it ten times more annoying that was ever possible on Unix and MacOSX. With User Account Control fully set up and enabled, it takes TWELVE FREAKIN STEPS to remove a simple shortcut off of the desktop. Windows XP? Two steps, at most. A great feature, in theory, but as it?s implemented it?s only a matter of time before everyone shuts it off (and therefore leave themselves even more vulnerable to malware). There is just soo much wrong with this version of Windows, I could go on for thousands of words. I predict that Vista will be another Windows Millenium – universally reviled for being bloatware and universally shunned for its inability to provide a positive user experience. For anyone looking to move beyond Windows XP, take my advice: Check out Ubuntu or SUSe Linux. Or better yet, do the intelligent thing and move to a Mac. You?ll never regret it. 5 Reasons NOT To Upgrade to Windows Vista 65 More Windows Vista Mistakes Vista: the Good the Bad and the Ugly The Dark Side of Windows Vista Where Vista Fails_________________?Anyone who believes in Intelligent Design is just as ill-educated as someone who believes in a flat earth. Intelligent Design is Religious Mythology, and as such, has no place in our Science classrooms.? – 99.99% of Scientists [?]
          well guys need i say more

          ta mick

        • #2504756

          some of the hardware used to test vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well michael you make it all too easy

          ok guys here’s some testing using performance test 6: installed vista ultimate/xp pro on gateway 6110d;2.66ghz;2 7200 rpm hds;
          nividia ge force 7600gs.
          vista ultimate/xp pro installed on dell inspiron/xp pro on 140..2.gb;2ghz m,7200 hd rpm.
          XP pro won with 278.9& dissapointing result for vista was 230.8 with sans aero glass.
          Don’t tell me i don’t give you anything!
          ta michael
          ps The only Stupid Question is the one you failed to Ask!

        • #2486582

          gsaravin How come at Gateway I cannot even find the model 6110d PC

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to well michael you make it all too easy

          Also I looked at Dell website-they have a compatiblity list on Vista and their Laptops.
          According to the list the Inspiron will run Vista but Basic only- No Aero graphics.
          Again you goofed.
          (no insult just fact)
          Mike

        • #2486558

          Crap

          by lindfalas ·

          In reply to well michael you make it all too easy

          Funny and crappy words.
          I use Vista and it works. I dont only test it.
          Why dont I get this foult and why do my system run smoth?

          Do you belive everything people write or??

          You still dont write what your benchmark program is.
          It still looks like copy&past results..

          Still Vista is more secure then XP.
          Its more good looking.
          Its working like a charm.
          I can use all program I use in XP without any problem.
          So can most people do without any problem.
          Most problem people has is hardware problem and crappy hardware or software that is so old so its just luck they worked on XP.

          Greetz

        • #2504364

          Sure I know each setup is differant in fact both of my pc’s use

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to Well HAL you can tell your customers

          differant chipsets.
          Compter #1
          MSI K8N NEO Platinum (nVidia nForce 3 250GB)
          AMD Sempron X64 3300+(1.8mhz)
          2 512meg DDR Kingston PC3200
          WD1200JB SE 120 gig
          Maxtor Diamond10 S ATA 80gig
          WD 800JB (2)
          MicroAdvantage DVD +- RW Dual-L
          Nvidia GeForce7300 256meg ddr2 memory
          AverMedia Ultra TV 1500 MCE
          Ultra V-series 500watt PSU
          Ultra Media Reader
          Windows XP SP2/Vista Ultimate X86/X64
          MS Optical Mouse(USB)
          Hitachi 19″ CRT
          Acer AL1717BBM LCD 17″monitor

          Computer #2
          MSI K8M NEO-V (VIA K8M800 chipset)
          AMD Athlon X64 2800+(2.0mhz)
          WD800 JB SE 80 gig hd
          Nvidia FX5200 256 meg memory
          2 512 meg DDr PC2700
          MadDog Combo dvd/cd rw
          AverMedia UltraTV 1500
          Ultra 400watt PSU
          Windows XP PRO SP2/Vista Home Premium trialX86/X64
          17″ Compaq crt
          Both Homebuilt-both used for beta testing Vista-both all drivers loaded and working with no problems.
          Mike

        • #2504778

          ok i know you are not insulting me this time & you want both source codes &

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Sure I know each setup is differant in fact both of my pc’s use

          benchmarks.
          I have allready stated in this thread what my methology was & i have not said that one
          cannot run vista at all.Far from it what i have said if you think that the system can run other software that you used to run on xp
          be prepared to be dissapointed.The vista system will install but it’s behaviour is unpredictable as ms did an extremely rushed
          job hence there are heaps of instances with source code problems.On the other side you have people that have bench marke vista with
          xp & have been surprised at the results.
          I can say in all honesty these are inherent system problems that are present in vista itself.Given time ms may finish the botched job it began.
          So all in all i’m delighted that you can run vista on your little machines but when benchmarked with xp,vista has a huge deficit to fill.I think ms has a lot to answer for.
          i’m sorry to say ms has dissapointed a lot of people by not offering a finished job.
          Ms is still behind hardware makers & even software makers & it cannot satisfy some.
          so i have to say we just have to accept the inevitable.
          ta mick
          ta mick

        • #2504706

          the crap in vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Sure I know each setup is differant in fact both of my pc’s use

          CRAP In Vista
          The new Content, Restriction, Annulment and Protection (CRAP) subsystem built into Vista is another reason to stay away from it.

          Leaving aside the political issues of CRAP, this is what users of Vista will be treated to:

          Executive Executive Summary
          The Vista Content Protection specification could very well constitute the longest suicide note in history.

          This document looks purely at the cost of the technical portions of Vista’s content protection. […] However, one important point that must be kept in mind when reading this document is that in order to work, Vista’s content protection must be able to violate the laws of physics, something that’s unlikely to happen no matter how much the content industry wishes it were possible.

          Read the whole piece, its hilarious.

          The “remote shutdown” capability for device drivers, if true is a reason enough to not buy Vista in any form or shape.

          Microsoft: Shooting itself in the foot. One toe at a time.If you wish to read the full article http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

          enjoy ta mick

        • #2504775

          hey hal can you do me a big favour can you explain

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Michael looking at George’s Blog

          to michael that ms apparently tried to rewrite upto 60 million lines of source code.
          Whether they did do it or not is immaterial because they did state they were rewriting the code.
          Also can you explain to michael that programmers & developers of software do not reveal their benchmarking secrets to people
          so easily.
          ta mick
          you’re a legend mate!

        • #2504675

          gsaravin-you say you are a programmer/developer of software

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to hey hal can you do me a big favour can you explain

          “that ms apparently tried to rewrite upto 60 million lines of source code”
          Any real programmer knows that if they tried rewriting 60% or 60 million lines of code-they would more than likely introduce more bugs and more than likely worse than already there.
          “Whether they did do it or not is immaterial because they did state they were rewriting the code.”
          Yea they’re rewriting code but to fix bugs found-which is way less than 1% of the code.
          “That programmers & developers of software do not reveal their benchmarking secrets to people.”
          Now why would they want to keep it a secret-when they would want people to know that what they are saying is true.
          (Not insulting just stating fact)
          Mike

        • #2486476
          Avatar photo

          Michael what needs to happen and what eventually happens

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to gsaravin-you say you are a programmer/developer of software

          Is very often quite different. Yes it was reported in AU press and many others that because of the lack of communication within M$ they had to rewrite up to 60% of this code so that it would work. Now as the time frame was impossible to correct 60% of the code properly I would tend to say that they just applied a Band Aid Treatment to the code and got it working with the absolute minimum of work required.

          Something like the British Government did when they where developing the R 100 Airship they used the best doping material available and the best glue available to glue the internal tapes to the outer skin and then when there was a chemical reaction that caused the outer skin to literally disengaged when under stress they hurriedly replaced the minimum amount possible to meet the Politically announced timetable. The result was that this airship Crashed & Burned killing most of those Onboard and there was never a full explanation for the crash. About the only good thing to come out of the crash was the number of Politicians Onboard at the time who had forced the hands of the designers and insisted that they do things this way and not the correct way. Unfortunately the Bureaucrats who where responsible for this mess weren’t on board so they continued to make decisions like the ones that had led to so many needless deaths.

          With the announced problems that M$ had with Vista early last year 2006 they seem to have done a similar thing with the idea of lets get it out as our Share Price is being adversely affected and we’ll fix it while in the field. I hate to repeat this figure again but it was exactly what we where told at a M$ Partners meeting on 22 May 2006 [i]Vista as it currently stands represents 1,000,000 man hours of development and we are currently finding 5,000 new problems per day.[/i] Now even if they didn’t admit to needing to rewrite so much of the code that simple figure of 5,000 problems per day is something to worry about as at the rate of them finding critical errors in May 2006 they could not have fixed everything by the release date for the Volume License stuff in November 2006.

          What I think M$ tried to do was push out available Volume License product with the expectation on not much in the way of take up and they could help to prop up their share price with the announcement of a release of Vista to Business. Yes I bought a copy of a Volume License in December but M$ only released the Licensing Agreement and policies to their Resellers here in January 007. So I see the Volume License Release as nothing more than a Red Herring to help stop the decline of the M$ Share price which if you follow the Stock Market hasn’t been performing all that well recently.

          As for Developers not releasing their testing procedures to the General Public this is perfectly correct as they test at the Source Code Level so any of these tests would be impossible to reproduce by outside members or testers and would immediately call into question the honesty or truthfulness of the tests provided by the maker. This is nothing new and M$ learnt a lesson from this a very long time ago when they where running Shells on DOS and calling it Windows.

          Personally I wouldn’t expect M$ to release much in the way of benchmarking test results as yet because they would be working with the latest code available and these results couldn’t be replicated by external testers so the obvious thing that would happen is that the maker would be brought into question on their posted Test Results.

          While the release Date has more or less been set in stone now as January 30 007 the Programmers at M$ will still be working or repairs to the flaws that they know about in the original code and these fixes will be pushed out as Patches to fix problems that have been incorporated since the inception of the Program to develop this piece of software. Even M$ freely admits that they took on too much this time nd they will never again attempt to release an OS and Office application at the same time.

          Do you remember the release of 2003 Server? M$ was pushing the idea that this was the Most Secure OS that they had ever developed and they had tested in in a work Environment for nearly 12 months to prove just how rock solid it was. Within 2 weeks of the release of 2003 Server there where several Critical Patches released to fix flaws in the system that could allow outside sources to take control of that particular server.

          With any M$ Press Release you have to sift through the Marketing Hype and work out what you think the truth may be from the promotional material provided.

          Col

        • #2482924

          well michael there you go again well look at the latest of what is

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gsaravin-you say you are a programmer/developer of software

          happenng,regardless of me saying it.My benchmarking & my research is my bread & butter it’s what i love best & i’m not going to give out every detail that’s not going to pay my bills.I can give more detais etc but i need to be paid for it.
          ta mick look at what’s happening in the uk
          Government tells schools to avoid Vista

          Beware of the Vole

          By Nick Farrell: Friday 12 January 2007, 07:38

          THE UK schools’ computer agency has warned schools of the dangers of buying Microsoft’s Vista.
          The British Educational Communications and Technology Agency said that deploying Vista was risky and its benefits were unclear.

          According to ZD Net, the Agency is telling schools not to deploy the latest VoleWare for at least a year.

          The agency gives Vista a poor report saying that it contained no “must-have” features in Vista and but came with “technical, financial and organisational challenges associated with early deployment.?

          As for Office 2007, the Agency said that while there were many new features in Office 2007, most of these were only useful in the private sector and as useful as a chocolate teapot for schools.

          A jolly indignant Vole was quoted as saying that punters should test the operating system themselves and decide
          ta mick

        • #2482886

          gsaravin I had already read this report

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to gsaravin-you say you are a programmer/developer of software

          I agree most corporations and goverment agencies should evaluate and test before deploying.
          You may want to check out these

          http://reviews.cnet.com/Windows_Vista_RTM/4505-3672_7-32137426.html#more

          http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_08.asp

          (No insult just the facts)
          Mike

        • #2486410

          just how many of those 5,000 problems per day

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to hey hal can you do me a big favour can you explain

          may have been caused by one small section of code. Or how many reported by the more than 100,000 Tech Testers-MSDN testers and Corperate testers were not repoducable in the lab.
          Also how many may have been caused by drivers or hardware or by design.
          Sorry but rewritting 60 million lines of code is not logical or even the best idea. Doing that it is more than likely to add more and even worse bugs than what they begain with.
          As far as benchmarking programs gsaravin has said more than once he benchmarked the programs not source code. Both XP and Vista -are you trying to say gsaravin has the source code for BOTH XP and Vista and that he used the benchmark testing program on both. How likely is that? So why do you think he won’t give us the name of benchmark program.
          On exploits do you honestly believe that there is any software non-explotable.
          gsaravin tells so many differant things he can not keep them straight- he will tell one story then when called on it-he will tell some thing totally differant.
          (no insult just the facts)
          Mike
          PS on the 5000 statement did he hear this first hand or was it 2nd-3rd-4th-8th

        • #2486313
          Avatar photo

          Well Michael from the way that the M$ Tech boys where talking

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to just how many of those 5,000 problems per day

          These where 5,000 different problems long before the RC1 product was released for Beta Testing.

          I also don’t think that M$ has rewritten too much code either they have just applied fixes where problems existed and while this works it may not be the best solution available from a Code Construction Point of View.

          When it comes to Benchmarking Programs I wasn’t commenting on anyones testing but the maker in this case Microsoft as they have ready access to the Source Code and can access this at will. When I was writing code for a living that is how I worked and how everyone else in the industry worked as well.

          As for developing new software without possible exploits no I personally don’t think that it’s possible but M$ makes it easy by their need to make the systems easy to use and they do this at the expense of Security.

          As for the 5,000 New Problems Per day I heard that at a M$ Partners Meeting on 22 May 2006 as I clearly said in the post above and it came directly from one of the presenters at that meeting working for M$ and who’s job it was to show off Vista. M$ should have a Power Point Slide show of that meeting on their Web Site with the figures on it as it was shown by them to us plebes who resell their product. I’m not sure that anyone else has mentioned that figure but honestly it scared the living daylights out of me when it was mentioned as it’s a lot of problems on something that has spent so much time in development.

          Yes they had a Pre Beta Copy running on a Ferrari NB with all the features working. Well at least all the features that they wanted to show off as several things where not working or had been turned off. I also remember them telling us not to expect anything fantastic as this was a Pre Beta release so they honestly expected problems. About the only problem that they got was the inability of the user to remember how it actually worked because once he got away from the presentation he was completely lost.

          The talk went for about 1 hour with first a Power Point Slide Show and then a demonstration of both Vista and Office 2007 which lasted for about 15 or 20 minutes.

          [b]No Insults Just The Facts[/b]

          Col

          [i]PS I started a Thread on this subject the next day so it appears to be loaded on the TR Server on the 22- May-2007 because of the International Date Line. It’s here if you would like to read a first hand account of what we where told at that time.

          http://tinyurl.com/y93w9u

        • #2482973

          Well HAL/gsaravin Beta 2 was released to Testers on 13 May 2006

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to just how many of those 5,000 problems per day

          so they either demo’d Beta 2 or Build 5336 Review(which was a build just before Beta 2).
          The person who demo’d it for you-are you sure he was not a Sales Rep instead. A Tech Rep I would think be a little more prepared to answer questions.
          Also as I remember not all the features were in the pre-beta2 builds. When Build 5536 came out(about 25 August 2006) if I remember it was feature complete then. After that RC1 came out and this was mostly finding and fixing bugs.
          Also when I was talking about exploits- I was talking about any software. All have exploits.
          As far as rewritting all the code-nobody does that when they issues patchs. What any company does is replace the code giving the problem. Sometimes one small section of code can effect more than one feature or process esp with millions of lines of code. Also in the beta portion of testing- a bunch of debug code is included in the software which by the way slows down the program. It is during the RC phase that the debug code is removed. By the way gsaravin this is why Vista appears slower than XP. gsaravin with you having a Ph’D you know this don’t you.
          By the time RTM is released all debug code is removed and the code is optimised.
          (NO insult just the facts)
          Mike

        • #2482914
          Avatar photo

          Well Michael I hate to state the Obvious again

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to just how many of those 5,000 problems per day

          But when M$ Starts a Road Show series it doesn’t change it’s presentation through the tour. That Particular Road Show started prior to May and Brisbane AU was the last of the shows.

          M$ most likely still has the details of that show and it’s meeting points listed on their Web Site if you care to dig through it but you’ll have to look at the AU Site not the US M$ Web Page.

          Also what’s this [i]HAL/gsaravin[/i] rubbish are you replying to both of us or implying that we are one and the same person? You asked a direct question of me and I replied along with a link to a thread that I posted directly after the Road Show with exactly what we had been told by the Marketing people of M$ about the number of versions of Vista at the very least.

          I also explained in that thread that you have either ignored or was it too difficult for you to understand? That what we where told was still very flexible and [b]Shock Horror[/b] they where though M$ did manage to stick fairly close to their projected dates as listed in that thread if you’ve actually bothered to read it and at no point did I say anything about Vista Being Crap! I did question the readiness of it as a production version and could M$ push ahead with the projected release dates with the stated problems. If you think that is unreasonable so be it but any sane person would think otherwise.

          As for the person demonstrating the Product as he was imported from the US for the presentation and we where told that he came from the Vista technical Devision I’ll take M$ at their word and accept it is so but you are welcome to call them liars if you wish. Personally while I don’t trust everything that M$ tells me but when it comes to describing their personal I do tend to believe them but when the Marketing Department says something that’s what I’m cautious of.

          However he did sound like a Tech as he brushed over the TCO issue and as he said I have to show this and I’ll leave it to you to make up your own minds on. Sure Sounds Like a Tech to me and defiantly not one of the marketing types who blindly push out the company line without a second thought.

          As it’s a while ago now I’m not exactly sure if I started that thread directly after I returned home or if I had a few hours rest and read some of their material that was handed out or what I had written down and then posted the initial posting that started off that thread though I personally think that I waited a few hours after getting home and then while mostly exhausted I started it off as the title doesn’t sound like something that I would normally put out it’s incomplete. But once I start something I don’t go back and alter the main gist of the original post because I’m not like that.

          I wonder why you didn’t see and contribute to that thread if you are so wrapped up in everything M$. If I remember correctly it was given a Headline space in one of the newsletters of the time so you should have seen it and more importantly what was posted there that was incorrect at the time?

          Actually even now M$ is insisting that they will have 7 versions of Vista available so I can’t see that much has changed as they fail to mention the 64 Bit version completely at any M$ Partner Meeting or Road Show that I’ve been to since that date.

          Granted we’ll all know much more at the product release which here hasn’t as yet been scheduled or at least we the Partners haven’t been asked to register for it. As I don’t work for M$ I’m not exactly sure what their exact plans are but with the release date still looking as if it will be 30 January 007 I would expect that M$ would have scheduled the Product Release prior to the actual product Launch. Sure in November there was a Pre Release show but that was nothing like any previous M$ Product Launch that I’ve ever attended and it lacked quite a lot of the things that come with a product Launch. Namely it only lasted for a couple of hours at night and wasn’t an all day affair. They also failed to provide a Time Bomb of the Production Version which is normal for a product Launch. Actually they didn’t even mention that Vista had been released to the RTM level.

          But if you think that gsaravin and I are the same person you are sadly mistaken and if you care to look at my history on TR you’ll see that this is the first thread that I’ve contributed to with this person. But you are entitled to your own misguided opinion and I’m not going to bother to stoop to your level and attempt to make you think otherwise. It’s a pointless exercise as you appear to have already made up your mind and no matter how wrong you are it’s not worth my time or effort to try to put you straight. Besides there are others here who know me much better that you do Michael who have been both active and high participants in the TR Community and even if they don’t personally like me they will agree that I don’t bother to lie to them and can be relied upon to answer truthfully when asked something.

          You really seem to be getting the two of us mixed up but I’m willing to post URLs to the M$ Web Site but you’ll need to be a Partner to access those pages and even then I’m not sure if a US Partner can access AU Content but I’ll gladly dig out the M$ URLs and list them in Tiny URL format if you wish.

          Incidentally I only use the Hal 9000 site alias because originally TR displayed the entire E-Mail address which attracted a heap of Spam through the Bots that crawl the web, but I’ve never failed to put my name at the bottom of a single post that I’ve ever made and I have always accepted E-Mail from Peers which is a lot more than many people involved in this particular thread have done. I’m also not confided to just this one thread and am not totally consumed with it like some appear to be in their endless defence of Vista and everything M$. I sell their product and mostly the top end stuff not the bottom of the range rubbish that M$ pushes out and I use what suits my customers needs best which is a lot more than can be said for most M$ Small Business Specialists. The fact that I was addressing this segment of the market prior to M$ realising that it even existed should tell you something about me any my business sense. While there are some things that I disagree with from M$ there are also many that I agree with unfortunately in this case at this current point in time Vista isn’t one of them.

          Nor is the fact that buying 2 X 5 License CAL’s cost more than the OS that they are running on and a 20 X CAL is only $250.00 AU more expensive to buy. I see something wrong with this picture as it appears that it’s the small businesses who are subsidising the larger business with M$ Product to me at least.

          No Insults Just The Facts

          Col
          [i]Edited to add what seems to be the obligatory requirement at the bottom of every post to this thread now and to correct one typo where the I used work instead of word when describing the M$ Employee who demonstrated Vista to us.

        • #2482861

          NO I don’t think you are gsaravin but I also don’t think he is

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to just how many of those 5,000 problems per day

          a IT person unlike you.
          Sorry if I sounded like I did. I’m asking you though, do you honestly believe he has the source code for both XP and Vista?
          In my last post I was also explaining why Vista may seem so much slower than XP. You would think that he would already know this if as he says he is a programmer/developer with a Ph’D in Computer Systems.

          Oh and on the question of TCO- how can anyone that early in beta cycle answer that question.
          on 7 versions-Vista Starter-Vista Home Basic-Vista Home Basic N-Vista Home Premium-Windows Vista Business-Windows Vista Business N-Windows Vista Ultimate. Looks like 7 to me.
          As you say I’m not a reseller or live in australia. Prices are differant in the USA compared to where your at.
          Do I think some of the prices are too high-you bet. Will I buy a upgrade version of Vista Ultimate when I can-yep. At a price of only $10 higher than what I paid for Windows 95-OH yea. But as I have done in all upgrades I’ll install clean.
          As before I appologise if you thought I was thinking you and gsaravin was the same person-I was also addressing him, because I thought he might want to know WHY Vista may seem slower.
          (Just the facts)
          Mike

        • #2505606
          Avatar photo

          Does he have the Source Code for Vista & XP

          by hal 9000 ·

          In reply to just how many of those 5,000 problems per day

          I very much doubt it but if he’s attending a University he could have access to parts of it.

          As for the 7 Different versions that only covers the 32 Bit Version and then the same are supposed to be released in 64 Bit versions and then the server side of Vista.

          I just have a bit of a problem with the Names Ultimate as Ultimate is available in all 3 categories of the supported list of Home User, Small Business and Big Business.

          And then you have Business Version available in the Small Business and supposedly the equivalent to XP Pro and them also available in the Medium to Big Business with Software Assurance. Actually that’s the only one so far that has been confirmed to carry SA and most likely it’s going to be the only one available with SA. It’s just when you see the same name in all 3 categories it gets a bit confusing and M$ is claiming that they are never going to make the same mistake that they did with the naming of XP like they did with XP Pro and XP Home as many people bought the Home Version when they really needed the Pro Version.

          Anyway I’m sure that the Marketing people will have changed everything by the time that the Product Launch happens.

          Col
          [i]Edited for a Typo[/i] 🙁

        • #2505549

          Actually There is only ONE Ultimate which is a combination of

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to just how many of those 5,000 problems per day

          Vista Home Premium and Vista Business. Which means. All the features that is in both is in Ultimate.
          There is also a 8th version(called Enterprise) but only available with the Software Assurance program.
          As far as gsaravine is concerend-in his profile he says “I’ve been in the IT industry for the past 30 years.I’ve had an enjoyable experience & looking forward to what technology brings in the next 30 years!”
          So how likely is he to be going to school?
          (Tried to edit for Typo)
          Mike
          PS I agree on the 64 bit-it is the reason I have both the X86 and X64 on my PC.

    • #2486606

      writing skills crap

      by davidbrandon ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      vista may be crap, but it doesn’t hold a candle to your writing skills (or lack thereof).

      • #2482915

        well you got your little brain working

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to writing skills crap

        give yourself an upper cut,as who are you coming on you must be so perfect.you dont press the wrong key.At least do yourself a favour & piss off.
        ta mick

        • #2505344

          Wrong Key 0nce in a while, OK

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to well you got your little brain working

          but not in every single post ever made gsaravin!

        • #2505306

          to techmail you just grin & beer it (no spelling mistake)

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well you got your little brain working

          cheers.
          Mick

        • #2505301

          It’s like having the set of keys for the bank of england or the combination

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well you got your little brain working

          to fort knox.You guys are just stating that i have the full access to the code etc.You are just speculating i have not said that.I have said for people that are doing special studies such as Phd etc there are special dispensations to access the code be it in any platform MS or others give you a special clearance.
          >Equally to discuss access & details of the CODE is a NO NO!.You guys talk abou it so casually as if it’s a stroll in the park.
          Having access to the code is a priveledge i would not like to discuss it.But you are free to speculate.

          ta mick

        • #2505218

          But gsaravin you have posted for much earlier that you already

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to It’s like having the set of keys for the bank of england or the combination

          have a Ph’D. You also posted that you don’t have the source code. you also posted that you do. So which is it?
          Just a few you posted
          ” i’m qualified in Masters in computing plus I’m a PHD in the field of operating systems”

          “you haven’t tested the source code like i have”

          “michael have i said i have access to source code in vista”
          I think the your posts above answer that questions.
          Just the facts
          Mike

        • #2505131

          Actually this is the first time you have said this

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to It’s like having the set of keys for the bank of england or the combination

          “I have said for people that are doing special studies such as Phd etc there are special dispensations to access the code be it in any platform MS or others give you a special clearance.”
          So you are saying that you tested source code that MS was in the process of testing-finding bugs-rewritting. Now how likely is it that that code was released to any university or any where else.

          “You guys are just stating that i have the full access to the code etc.”

          No you have said it.

          “i have done in depth level testing
          with various software right to the kernel & other ground work investigative software.This simply proves that vista has a lot to be desired.”
          “I use software that other developers use called klocwork,which perform a detailed source code & design analysis.i can even look at complex situtions involving millions of lines of code.
          Also i use Seapine’s testtrack pro software ,it allows detailed tracking of any bugs.I also have usedmicrosoft’s sourcesafe .As well as automated
          checking & verification i can select manual checking
          of codeor any software.I also use testtrack pro from seapine which is a cross platform software
          which can quickly analyse any source code control integration.”
          Is this not what you have posted.
          Fact not insults
          Mike
          PS Oh andby the way gsaravin-HAL is actually the one that brought this posiblity up first having access to the code as a student going for a Ph’D. But you say you have the Ph’D already.

        • #2505040

          yes i have done in depth testing but to actually talk about my access right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Actually this is the first time you have said this

          lets say it’s forbidden.In depth testing that there are major faults at the kernel level.You understand that i cannot divulge any access codes etc.I would be in a lot of strife.
          If people had no rights then nothing will be written & it will be out of bounds to anyone.
          ta mick

        • #2491926

          OK then your saying that you do have access to

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to yes i have done in depth testing but to actually talk about my access right

          Beta source code that changes daily.

          “yes i have done in depth testing but to actually talk about my access right
          lets say it’s forbidden.In depth testing that there are major faults at the kernel level.You understand that i cannot divulge any access codes etc.I would be in a lot of strife.”

          Now a university may have access to source code that has been released to manufacturing like XP but then only parts of it not the whole. But the likely hood of having access to beta code-you’re more likely to be hit by lightning before that happens. Beta and RC code changes daily up until released (RTM).

          The benchmarks you have shown are more than likely only available on the program not source. So WHY can you not tell us what that program is.
          If you areso sure of your facts why not let someone verify those facts.
          No insult just fact
          Mike

        • #2491655

          well michael its for me to know & you to find out

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to OK then your saying that you do have access to

          ta mick

        • #2505037

          let’s just get back to the topic how vista is or i’snt crap

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to It’s like having the set of keys for the bank of england or the combination

          guys let’s get back on track & discuss what is at hand come on don’t be shy if you have done vista testing well say so we want to hear!
          ta mick

        • #2491914

          I agree-but how about you being honest for a change

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to let’s just get back to the topic how vista is or i’snt crap

          I have known a few with Ph’D’s. They are not afraid to let a person know what their test method’s are. It took 2 months before you even mentioned some of the programs you used. then when you gave benchmarks it was 3 to 4 months. Now you won’t give the benchmarking program you used. What is a person to think.
          You have changed your very first post and others in this thread where you about all you had said is”vista is crap” and substituted your benchmarks and what you say is source code.
          Just the facts no insult intended
          Mike

        • #2491657

          i suppose you want the access password to go in to the source code

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I agree-but how about you being honest for a change

          Well i’m not going to reveal it just on these forums.Think about the consequences of revealing the access codes.
          ta mick

        • #2491636

          free software foundation really hates vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i suppose you want the access password to go in to the source code

          A campaign called ?Bad Vista? from the Free Software Foundation is trying to tell Internet users that Vista is bad and that they shouldn?t use it.

          The Bad Vista campaign is one that tries to examine Vista?s deficiencies, its use of Digital Rights Management software and other perceived ills. The FSF, of Free Software Foundation wants us all to use Linux or other alternatives.

          The problem for them is that most of the world is very happy to use Windows, and when they start using Vista, they will be very happy for the improvements it brings to the Windows experience, as it certainly does bring forth a number of improvements
          ta mick

        • #2490870

          Just as much as having the code available over the web – I guess

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to i suppose you want the access password to go in to the source code

          .

        • #2493327

          No I don’t besides I don’t think you have access

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i suppose you want the access password to go in to the source code

          As I posted before the chances of anybody outside of the MS campus having having even parts of beta or RC source code is too remote.
          From the benchmarks shown-you would have to had access to more than a few parts of source code.
          No insult just fact
          Mike

        • #2503490

          once again you miss the point that it is the priveledge

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i suppose you want the access password to go in to the source code

          of access that not everyone can access the code it’s only a select few who are chosen to be given & there is an element of trust.Otherwise not many people will be allowed access.Yo can have access for the purposes of higher study eg phd.
          so unless you are thinking of going for a phd you can forget getting access & it must be related to the study.For one thing i would not dare divulge source information & things that would harm ms.If ms got it’s act together re vista in the first place everything would be sweet !
          ta mick

        • #2503413

          gsaravin you don’t get it Idon’t think you know what your talking about

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to i suppose you want the access password to go in to the source code

          You are just like many kids I have known over the years. To try to prove something they will say they did this and did that. Thing is you know that they just can not do it and if you press them they add more and more to try to prove they did it until they can not keep track of what they said before.
          Another clue is some of your posts that says you are a young kid.

          “VISTA IS R.I.P.
          VISTVISTA IS RIPA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIP VISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIPVISTA IS RIP
          AMEN TO THAT BROTHERS & SISTER
          YOURS MICK 08/19/06”

          That was funny-when within the next 6 days the next build 5536 was released to CPP testing.

          “where did you come from & go back to
          your black hole You should change your name txtopgun arseabout.You know jackshit you can’t even spell Phd properly.You show no respect to your elders & you don’t deserve any jack ****!
          Did anyone say ashit head like you can make any comment as you know buggerall.
          piss off
          Dr Mick ”

          “you prove that you know nothing
          You just prove to me that you are the real cretin.
          I have checked some of your postings & i have to say that they are crap & you are crap.Remember you are the one that’s attacking me .You don’t know anything as you are brainwashed whatever other people dish out to you. you can’t think for yourself,you can’t grasp reality.You are the real cretin.Whereas we are maintaining a sense of reality when someone like you comes along & spoils it for everyone.
          I challenge you to write in response how much you have tested vista I stake my claim on 29 years of testing in IT.I have a Masters in Computer science
          & i’m half way through my Phd.
          So there CRETIN go away!
          Mick ”
          Hmmm I thought you told us yu had your Ph.D and you were going for a second thesis.

          Then you also said ” i’m qualified in Masters in computing plus I’m a PHD in the field of operating systems”

          From what you have posted before and changed in many of your orginal posts. Plus the fake source code revealed-how can we believe that the benchmark’s you posted are not faked.
          I’m sorry but I just do not believe you.
          Just the facts
          Mike

        • #2503365

          yea yea michael is correct i’m wrong i don’t know what i’m saying

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i suppose you want the access password to go in to the source code

          extract taken from cnet news .com

          British agency tells schools to avoid Vista
          Government’s schools computer unit warns that deploying the new OS carries too much risk and that its benefits are unclear.
          By Richard Thurston
          Special to CNET News.com

          Published: January 11, 2007, 8:12 AM PST
          TalkBack E-mail Print del.icio.us Digg this
          The British government’s schools computer agency has warned that deploying Vista carries too much risk and that its benefits are unclear.

          The British Educational Communications and Technology Agency said Wednesday that it “strongly recommends” schools do not deploy Microsoft’s latest operating system within the next 12 months.

          In a further dig at Microsoft, the agency asserts that there are no “must-have” features in Vista and that “technical, financial and organizational challenges associated with early deployment currently make this (Vista) a high-risk strategy.”

          Tom McMullan, a technical consultant at the agency, told ZDNet UK: “There is not a case for schools to deploy it unless it is mission-critical stable.” Speaking at this week’s BETT education trade show in London, McMullan added: “There are lots of incremental improvements, but there are no must-haves that justify early deployment.”

          Now on News.com:
          Lobby bill spares political bloggers
          A brighter shade of high-tech light
          Photos: A first look inside Boeing’s new 747
          Extra: Two hip-hop producers in copyright trouble
          The agency was similarly dismissive of Office 2007, which is being launched alongside Vista. Although it acknowledged that there are many new features in Office 2007, the agency said most of these were only useful in the private sector.

          Microsoft waved aside such caution.

          Steve Beswick, Microsoft’s director of education for the U.K., told ZDNet UK: “Customers should evaluate Vista and test it and decide ‘Is this good for learning?’ Roll-out shouldn’t be stopped if it aids learning.”

          Earlier this month, the government agency renewed its Memorandum of Understanding with Microsoft for another year. It gives schools discounts of 20 percent to 37 percent on the company’s software products.

          Richard Thurston of ZDNet UK reported from London.

          TalkBack E-mail Print del.icio.us Digg this
          Read more on this story’s topics and companies
          Add to My News | Create an alert Education
          Add to My News | Create an alert Windows Vista
          United Kingdom
          Add to My News | Create an alert Microsoft
          36 comments
          Post a commentTalkBack
          ‘New’ features are not the issue.
          teast.twelve
          Jan 17, 2007, 8:38 AM PST

          British agency gives bad blind advice
          Ryo Hazuki
          Jan 17, 2007, 5:23 AM PST

          This is fair
          qwerty75
          Jan 14, 2007, 1:51 AM PST

          A massive waste of public funds
          grapesmc
          Jan 11, 2007, 10:25 AM PST

          Not news
          Mr-P
          Jan 11, 2007, 9:49 AM PST

          “a further dig at Microsoft”?
          jabbotts
          Jan 11, 2007, 9:49 AM PST

          First try then talk
          Oleg Simkin
          Jan 11, 2007, 9:10 AM PST

          A fair assessment.
          Christopher Hall
          Jan 11, 2007, 8:53 AM PST

          Poppycock!
          WJeansonne
          Jan 11, 2007, 8:52 AM PST

          Poppycock!
          WJeansonne
          Jan 11, 2007, 8:52 AM PST

          Is Vista Really Worth it?
          wilswong
          Jan 11, 2007, 8:50 AM PST

          MIchael is 100 percent right Im wrong
          ta mick

        • #2503328

          OK here are a few back to you

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to I agree-but how about you being honest for a change

          PCMAG Review
          http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2072255,00.asp

          Paul Thurott on Vista
          http://winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_08.asp

          CNET Editors review on Vista
          http://reviews.cnet.com/Windows_Vista_RTM/4505-3672_7-32137426.html?tag=box

          I can find more if that is not enough-I trust these people more than I do you or any others you may post.
          Just the facts
          Mike

        • #2503223

          well michael i’m wrong again if i remember right

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to OK here are a few back to you

          Paul Thurrott had reported 65 mistakes of ms on vista.Also some of those two bit reviews from pc mags are simply straight out msn vista releases not much independent thought has gone into it.Is’nt it marvelous to be wrong.
          Well to prove my point heres an example of the extent ms has gone to win favours:
          from splaTT’s blog:
          Acer Ferrari 1000 and Windows Vista Ultimate Review

          After spending most of the last two weeks out of the office taking photos around the mountains of the Upper Yarra Valley, last Friday i finally received my “review” AMD Dual-core 64 bit ACER Ferrari 1000 laptop running the final release of Windows Vista Ultimate from Microsoft and it sure is a cute little unit.
          I’m setting it up as my photography laptop and will be carrying it around with me as part of my camera setup. I’ve loaded it up with with all of my photo apps and will be giving a pretty good work out over the next few weeks.

          I feel i need to make a comment as well in response to the “noise” surrounding these review laptops that they have sent out…though i don’t really see the issue. For a start, the unit might be worth around US $2k, but i certainly didn’t get any crap from anybody when Microsoft invited me over to Redmond to take part in Search Champs v2 which included; a business class return airfare from Australia to the US, business class flights in the US, a weeks accomodation at the W Hotel in Seattle and from what i remember a $200 voucher to use in the Microsoft staff store…that trip must have cost them over AUD $10k

          And the crap about being “bought” by Microsoft is ridiculous;

          The three topics that i have blogged about most on this blog happen in the following order; Microsoft (154 posts), Blogging (126 posts) and Podcasting/Mediacasting (102 posts).

          Most of the companies I have started or been involved with in the last 15 years have nearly all been completely based on Microsoft software (both desktop and server) and i have been always been part of the team or the person responsible for making (or approving) those recommendations.

          I have been on beta test groups for quite a few Microsoft products.

          I have attended three of Microsoft Australia’s Tech.ed conferences (and done a major video job for them at one of them) as well as having attended a large number of their other conferences and events over the past 10 years.

          3 of the last 4 companies i have been involved in have been registered as Microsoft Partners.

          On top of the Search Champs trip, i have been to Microsoft’s Redmond campus a few other times on business trips where i have spent close to a week on each trip in meetings with a wide range of groups (paid for by the companies I was working for)

          I’ve lost track of the amount of times i have been to Microsofts Sydney office and caught up with my good friend Frank Arrigo or had meetings with various other people there.

          I have also had meetings at the ACER office in Sydney as well for a few things – though i don’t know the company, or the individuals that work there, anywhere near as well as Microsoft and a number of its employees.
          So I think its pretty safe to say that I am in the “Microsoft camp” and have been for a while and an ACER Ferrari laptop is not going to make me any more favourable than i probably already am towards them.

          You can believe or not believe me when i say that I will try and do the most honest review i can based on what i am doing with the machine and the amount of time i will be using it…but what matters is that i will be giving Microsoft (and ACER and AMD) an honest review of the machine and OS which i hope they will take on board as they both move onto developing their next range/versions of software and hardware.

          Anyway…thats about it from me on this subject. Since this is my first post for 2007 I also just want to say that hope you all had a great break and that you have a great year ahead…it’s certainly shaping up to be the best and most interesting year that i will probably have ever had…but more on that another time 😉
          Well need i say more of what ms will do.
          ta mick

        • #2491594

          Actually gsaravin I would rather trust a man who admits

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to OK here are a few back to you

          That he got that laptop from MS. Plus all the other stuff he as admitted to have done with MS. To me he sounds like a true professional unlike you. I think he will do a honest and truely evaluated review.
          How can anyone trust you.First you say you have programs that check programs for flaws.
          It takes more than one try before you finally post what those programs are. When I call you on those programs that they only check source code. When I call you on that you have no answer till HAL happens to mention that a person in school may have special access to source code you jump on it. I called you on that. Sure you may have access to parts of RTM code but a code still in beta-no way.
          You say you benchmarked XP/Vista programs-I ask for benchmark program suddenly it’s a program that tests source code.
          Since the first post you have said you have 29 years experiance in IT- plus you have a Ph’D in operating systems.
          Suddenly your going for a 2nd thesis but you already have a Ph’D in operating systems – so WHY the 2nd thesis???
          Sorry but you have been too inconsistant and changed too many of your orginal posts. There is no way I can trust or give any credance to any thing you say.
          Just the facts
          Mike

        • #2491563

          ok michael this has come to bite you in the ass

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to OK here are a few back to you

          recent news confirms that not only is vista slower than xp.That people are not taking it up & it’s a complete DUD.I was right i do’not apologise for that you are totally wrong i’m right on my opinion.Vista is useless especially on security.MS thought that was under control but people have fooled ms. SO michael you are wrong you dope!!

        • #2492189

          thank you for not trusting me because i don’t want anyone to trust me

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to OK here are a few back to you

          I don’t give a damn what anyone thinks.I don’t respect anyone that trusts what they read what others tell. them
          michael if it helps you i’m wrong so don’t trust me.I’m lying about vista that it’s crap.
          I’ts so good that i’m going to go out & buy it.
          ta mick

        • #2492187

          thank you ,for not trusting me because i don’t want anyone to trust me

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to OK here are a few back to you

          I don’t give a damn what anyone thinks.I don’t respect anyone that trusts what they read what others tell. them
          michael if it helps you i’m wrong so don’t trust me.I’m lying about vista that it’s crap.
          I’ts so good that i’m going to go out & buy it.
          ta mick

        • #2516298

          regarding your quotes

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to OK here are a few back to you

          in the pc mag the reviwer admits to heaps of problems bessetting vista & he mistakenly compares vista with win95;So Vista is likely to turn out just like Windows 95: a great platform on which developers will build and extend applications and create new ways of working. But Vista is obsolete in the same sense that Windows 95 was. Windows 95 went on to become the dominant OS, but it was the applications that went on top of it that reshaped the computing landscape. My guess is that, looking back, we’ll say the same about Vista. That is a wrong observation as compatiblity issues dog vista & it’s not the same!Also Paul Phurrot writes heaps of crap & renegs on it quite often 65 mistakes in vista case in point & then sings t’s praises!
          & the second review is full of errors also he resrves his opinion as he does not know how vista will tun out.

        • #2509571

          Well michael you are wrong on the quick books

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I agree-but how about you being honest for a change

          see the latest on quick books by george ou.You don’t know the whole story.
          ta mick

      • #2505298

        Well to settle your mind at ease there is no

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to writing skills crap

        connection between gsaravin & hal or gsaravin with michael or any other combination with another tech republic member.
        For pete’s sake all these people worryng about spelling mistakes give me the heebie jeebies,why don’t they just concentrate on giving their opinions as most of us can spell but we are one fingired typists who can’t be bothered editing our words.

        just give it up.

        ta mick

        • #2505079

          So are you

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Well to settle your mind at ease there is no

          Pete then?

        • #2505043

          I don’t know how you english might respond it’s like

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to So are you

          for heaven’s sake,well we say for the love of pete or for pete’s sake.Not that i’m pete.
          ta mick

        • #2490874

          Ermmm I’m not English!!!

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to I don’t know how you english might respond it’s like

          Why do you assume such?

          Last time I checked the UK was made up of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland & England.

          Well…I may as put you down as from New Zealand then eh?

        • #2492689

          sorry not being familiar with the cities & towns i thought

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Ermmm I’m not English!!!

          GB stood for great britain !
          ta mick
          if you mistake me for a kiwi i’ll have to say fush & chups !
          cheers

        • #2492684

          Whats your Point?

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to sorry not being familiar with the cities & towns i thought

          GB does stand for Great Britain. GB is made up of Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland and England.

          Your post assumed I was English just because I was from the UK (or GB), which I am not.

          My point still stands.

        • #2492070

          well stone the crows you’d think us jailbirds would keep ties

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to sorry not being familiar with the cities & towns i thought

          with our mother country.We refer to the english as winging pomsBut we do forget our roots.I think we can still belong for example as part of the commonwealth be it politics or olympic games.Soccer ,rugby & cricket.
          ta mick

        • #2492071

          well stone the crows you’d think us jailbirds would keep ties

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to sorry not being familiar with the cities & towns i thought

          with our mother country.We refer to the english as winging pomsBut we do forget our roots.I think we can still belong for example as part of the commonwealth be it politics or olympic games.Soccer ,rugby & cricket.
          ta mick

        • #2503499

          your location is eurma,asinwith GB

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Ermmm I’m not English!!!

          GB as in great Britain get it!
          So your the fonz heeeey!
          ta mick

        • #2491291

          Are you thick?

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to your location is eurma,asinwith GB

          GB is Great Britain yes. Great Britain is made of of 4 country’s. England (i.e being english) is only one of these four. Seeing as there is another three – I am not english. I could be Welsh, Scottish or (North)Irish. Have a look at a world map sometime.

        • #2492191

          i do the difference if you take away the welsh,& the scottish

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to your location is eurma,asinwith GB

          & irish theres hardly anything left>i know that the irish are a very funny people.The scottish wear the kilts & play the bagpipes.Where as the welsh i think they like to drink a pint of ale.What do you think i’m guessing you are irish>I know from the endings of irish ish & scottish ish that these nations are connected to the lost ten tribes of israel.Aparently the irish when they originally went to ireland carried a stone called the stone of destiny which is held under a chair in westminster abbey & is used for coronation purposes.The stone came from king solomons castle.
          The queen elisabeth 11 can trace her roots all the way to king david.
          i’m originally macedonian my self we can trace our heraldry to queen elizabetth the 2nd due to a connection with Samuel the second ,king of macedonia in the byzantine period.
          The other thing the macedonians are connected in some way with either the welsh or the scottish i don’t know the full history.
          ta mick

        • #2492118

          STONE OF DESTINY

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to your location is eurma,asinwith GB

          Lies in Scotland and has nowt to do with the Irish. There is some fake effort sitting in England.

          As for your country (as you insult most of the UK in your last post above). Nothing but a bunch of jail birds who decided to set up shop after being thrown out GB.

          It’s time they put you out to grass so you can do what you do best!

          You Wouldn’t know whether it’s Tuesday or Bourke Street, mate!

        • #2492065

          Well michael i’m wrong again seeing you are fond of pc

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well to settle your mind at ease there is no

          magazines.This article from pc world does not paint a rosy picture:
          Vista Upgrade: The Not-So-Rosy Picture
          Columnist Steve Bass reports on Microsoft’s new OS, free notebooks for bloggers, and a killer of a movie trivia game.
          Steve Bass
          Wednesday, January 10, 2007 01:00 AM PST

          You thought you were finished with me and my Vista rants. No such luck, folks. According to the e-mail I’ve been getting, the buzz around Vista is still alive and well.

          Things aren’t looking so hot for Vista’s right-around-the corner consumer release. There are a slew of reports that make me wonder if Vista’s rough edges are going to keep lots of people from upgrading.

          Step Into the Lab
          Let’s start with a PC World Labs report. After testing the soon-to-be-released Vista, it’s clear that if you want to use all of Vista’s features, you’re going to need a truckload of power–at a minimum, 1GB of RAM and a fast dual-core processor. It makes me wonder if Vista’s worth the move.

          There’s other not-so-good news. Notebooks users are going to see some of Vista’s features gobbling up more battery power than they expected.

          On the can’t-we-just-work-together front: Security vendors (McAfee and Symantec, for instance) are unhappy with Microsoft. They’re claiming Microsoft’s making it difficult for them to gain access to the part of the OS they need in order to upgrade their antivirus and anti-spyware tools to work with Vista. The hottest issue, among other things, is host-based intrusion detection. I love it when these behemoths duke it out—provided, of course, they work things out before everyone upgrades.

          Not surprisingly, our IDG News folks are saying that large companies are reluctant to upgrade for the reasons I’ve mentioned, and also because of program incompatibilities, the risk of hardware drivers not being available, and Microsoft’s reluctance to issue patches for Vista.

          If you’re planning on playing content that’s protected by digital rights management on a high-end audio device, such as one with a Sony/Philips Digital Interface (S/PDIF), you may be out of luck. Chris Mellor, of IDG’s Techworld, reports that Vista disables equipment that doesn’t have content protection features.

          On the hacking side of things, Engadget reports that that there’s a way to “freeze the 30-day countdown timer within the operating system in order to prevent it from ever leaving the fully functional evaluation mode.”

          I’m sure the Microsofties are on the case.

          Dig This: Moe and Edna sent me a link to a movie trivia site. They said, “We had a blast with this one in the office. We managed to figure out 15 out of 20 (there’s no answer sheet on the site) and wasted about 15 minutes.” Me, I’m stuck at 2 out of 20.

          Free Vista With All the Trimmings
          I looked on the front door porch: nada. Ditto for the back door. I was looking for the Acer Ferrari laptop loaded with Vista and Office 2007 that Microsoft was sending to a list of special bloggers.

          With all my bad-mouthing, you might not be surprised to hear that I’m not on any of Microsoft’s lists–except that very special one that starts with a capital “S” and ends with a “t.” I was put on that list in 1995 after making what were called “disparaging” remarks.

          It happened at PIBMUG, the users group I ran. Microsoft was there to show off Win 95 to the group’s 2000 members. I was on stage doing the intro. The microphone wasn’t working and a Microsoftie fiddled with it for a few minutes. When I got sound, I glibly said, “Wow, that’s the best tech support I’ve ever had from Microsoft.” I couldn’t help myself.

          The Laptop Deal
          The laptops, according to 18-year-old Long Zheng, a blogger living in Australia, aren’t gifts, but review units to help bloggers become familiar with Vista. Recipients have options: Keep the computer, return it, or donate it to charity. Read Zheng’s blog for his take on the arrangement.

          I don’t know any of the bloggers on Zheng’s list except for Ed Bott. Ed worked here at PC World eons ago. I know Ed and he’s an ethical, by-the-book, straight-arrow kind of guy. He has a different opinion.

          Ed’s bottom line is the same as mine: We can’t be bought or influenced.

          Dig This: Oh, mind reading is cool, even if it’s from an animation.

          My Vista Plan
          I’m installing Vista on my old production PC, but I thought it would be good to install Vista on a squeaky clean machine, too. So I also asked TigerDirect if I could use a brand-new Venture VX2 Systemax PC for a little over a month–it comes with an invoice, don’t worry. I can ship it back in 45 days or pay the $2000 price tag.

          The Systemax machine has an Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 2.66-GHz 1066FSB processor, an Intel D975XBX 2KR S775 ATX motherboard, 2GB PC6400 800-MHz DDR2 RAM, a 500GB RAID 0 Stripe SATA drive, and an ATI Radeon X1950 512MB video adapter.

          I’ll give you my impressions after I get back from the Consumer Electronics Show in a few weeks.

          I have to run. I think I hear the dogs barking at the DHL truck.
          me too ta mick

        • #2503778

          IN reply to you all fence sitters CNET has done testing that clearly shows

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well michael i’m wrong again seeing you are fond of pc

          that as early as june 2006 cracks appear in vista that vista is not the better os version.XP is a better version in the performance stakes.June 19, 2006, 2:04 PM PDT
          Windows Vista beta 2 application performance
          Posted by: Daniel A. Begun

          There’s been plenty of lively chatter lately about Microsoft Vista’s hardware requirements, software compatibility issues, bugs, and more. .
          We’ve already seen that the current Vista beta is not very battery-friendly for laptops. Hopefully, the final version will have more robust power-management features not really. Otherwise, future Vista users are in for some boring cross-country flights. But this begs the question, how does Vista’s performance hold up with regular applications? We’re glad you asked!

          We loaded Windows Vista beta 2 (build 5384) and Windows XP Professional SP2 on a 3.2GHz Pentium 4, with 1GB of DDR2 memory running at 664MHz and an ATI Radeon X850 XT graphics card. We ran a few of CNET Labs’ home-brewed tests on the two operating systems to see if we could discern any significant performance differences between XP and Vista. The results were surprising.

          iTunes encoding test
          (Shorter bars indicate better performance)

          Windows Vista beta 2 (build 5384)
          246
          Windows XP Pro SP2
          247
          Note: Time in seconds

          Photoshop CS2 image-processing test
          (Shorter bars indicate better performance)

          Windows Vista beta 2 (build 5384)
          378
          Windows XP Pro SP2
          400
          Note: Time in seconds

          3D games testing: F.E.A.R.
          (Longer bars indicate better performance)
          1,600×1,200 1,024×768
          Windows Vista beta 2 (build 5384)
          13 30
          Windows XP Pro SP2
          15 29
          Note: Scores in frames per second

          We expected to see “beta bloat” hamper the overall performance of the Vista beta, but that was not the case. Vista and XP both ran our iTunes encoding test in the same amount of time. Even more surprising, Vista was actually almost 6 percent faster than XP on our Adobe Photoshop CS2 image-processing test. The clear winner was xp.
          ta mick

        • #2503767

          more recent testing proves i was right all allong with vistas

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to IN reply to you all fence sitters CNET has done testing that clearly shows

          problems.
          Date: January 25, 2007
          Author: Rob Williams

          Does performance suck on Vista when compared to XP? That’s what I was set out to find out. I was worried at first, since the performance in Beta 2 was quite bad. While there is indeed a performance decrease,clearly microsoft has failed to deliver a better product than xp.
          Testing Overview & Methodology

          For our performance testing today, I will be using my Intel dual-core rig. The goal of the article is to show the direct performance decrease you will experience when making the move. Take note though, that the difference on your system may vary from my results, especially if you are using an older machine. I chose to use a “midstream” PC to benchmark with, as most people reading this may have a similar setup. If you use a computer that’s more than 2 years old, with a small GPU or one that has only 1GB of ram, you can expect Vista to not run that seamlessly.

          I will be comparing the performance from a freshly formatted machine with both an XP Professional and Vista Ultimate installation. I will be using a variety of synthetic benchmarks and also real world benchmarks that touch on multi-media tasks. All tests are performed on machines that are -not- altered for the best performance. Normally when we benchmark memory or a CPU, we disable many services and close needless programs before doing so. This will not be done here, as realistically, this is not what people do prior to crunching a video file or playing a game. No post-install third party applications will be left running though… just default system services.

          Testing System
          Intel E6300 Dual Core @ 1.866GHz
          ASUS P5N-E SLI 0307 BIOS
          Corsair 2GB PC2-9136 @ DDR2-1066 4-4-4-12
          ASUS EN7900GT 256MB
          Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB
          Corsair HX620W Power Supply
          Corsair Nautilus 500 Water Cooling
          LG 18x DVD-Burner
          D-Link WiFi Card
          NZXT Apollo Case
          Prior to benchmarking, the system is “cleaned” up. Needless scattered files on the desktop are removed, and post-install applications are closed down if they are running in the background.

          Throughout all of these charts, you will see many deltas. These symbolize the advantage or disadvantage Vista Ultimate has over XP.

          SANDRA 2007

          First up is SANDRA, one of my favorite benchmarks.

          XP Professional
          Sandra Arithmetic
          MIPS: 17116
          MFLOPS: 11906
          Sandra Multi-Media
          Int: 102632
          Float: 55427
          Sandra File Systems
          Avg. Read: 63MB/s
          Latency: 8ms
          Sandra Memory
          Int: 5773
          Float: 5775
          Vista Ultimate
          Sandra Arithmetic
          MIPS: 17037
          MFLOPS: 11905
          Sandra Multi-Media
          Int: 102281
          Float: 55338
          Sandra File Systems
          Avg. Read: 61MB/s
          Latency: 7ms
          Sandra Memory
          Int: 5782
          Float: 5717
          .
          Delta
          – 0.46%
          – 0.008%
          Delta
          – 0.34%
          – 0.16%
          Delta
          – 3.28%
          + 14.8%
          Delta
          + 0.16%
          – 0.66%

          There’s very little difference here so far… less than 1% all around.

          Cinebench, Sciencemark, 3D Mark 06

          The same goes for here with Cinebench, but I started to see even larger differences with Sciencemark where the delta was closer to 3.5%. Super Pi also proved 19 seconds slower under Vista.

          XP Professional
          Cinebench 2003
          Single Thread: 312
          Multi-Thread: 581
          Sciencemark 2 (Lower is Better)
          Mol Dyn: 83.72s
          Cipher: 15.39s
          3D Mark 06
          4907
          Super Pi
          32 Million: 25m 0s
          Vista Ultimate
          Cinebench 2003
          Single Thread: 312
          Multi-Thread: 579
          Sciencemark 2 (Lower is Better)
          Mol Dyn: 86.58s
          Cipher: 16.06s
          3D Mark 06
          4693
          Super Pi
          32 Million: 25m 19s
          .
          Delta
          – 0.00%
          – 0.34%
          Delta
          – 3.41%
          – 4.35%
          Delta
          – 4.56%
          Delta
          – 1.27%

          The 3D Mark score is about 300 points lower on Vista, but please don’t take that result too seriously at this point. NVIDIA is working around the clock on final Vista drivers, so the performance may improve when they are finally out the door.

          Hard Drive Benchmarks

          Overall with the disk access benchmarks, the only tests that had a rather large differences was with the burst and minimum speed tests. In both HD Tach and HD Tune, the Avg. MB/s proved no different at all, which is good to see.

          XP Professional
          HD Tach
          Burst Read: 134.5MB/s
          Avg. Read: 66.2MB/s
          Latency: 13.4ms
          HD Tune
          Min: 30.6MB/s
          Avg: 62.3MB/s
          Max: 76.3MB/s
          Latency: 13.4ms
          CPU Usage: 2.6%
          Vista Ultimate
          HD Tach
          Burst Read: 120.7MB/s
          Avg. Read: 66.2MB/s
          Latency: 13.4ms
          HD Tune
          Min: 36.6MB/s
          Avg: 62.3MB/s
          Max: 76.5MB/s
          Latency: 13.5ms
          CPU Usage: 7.7%
          .
          Delta
          – 11.43%
          – 0.00%
          – 0.00%
          Delta
          + 19.6%
          – 0.00%
          + 0.26%
          – 0.74%
          N/A

          The only thing that stands out to me here is the fact that HD Tune required over 5% more CPU power during usage. This could be the result of Vista forcing a Windows XP program to function. By default, it did not function in Vista, but adjusting the compatibility fixed everything.

          Real World Benchmarks

          For some light real world testing, I chose a few programs to conduct multi-media recoding. For Sony Vegas, I took a 50MB .divx file, recoded it to a high-definition profile and added a watermark. For Nero Record, I took a DVD from Volume 4 of the Family Guy collection and recoded it to fit on a backup sized DVD (4.5GB). Lastly, for LAME, I first ripped Voodoo & Serano: Cold Blood to a single .WAV file. Then I ran than through a “lame -b 320 vns.wav” command.

          XP Professional
          Multi-Media Recode (Lower is Better)
          Sony Vegas: 18m 38s
          Nero Recode: 9m 56s
          LAME Recode: 3m 59s
          Vista Ultimate
          Multi-Media Recode (Lower is Better)
          Sony Vegas: 18m 21s
          Nero Recode: 10m 31s
          LAME Recode: 4m 07s
          .
          Delta
          + 1.5%
          – 5.87%
          – 3.34%

          Interestingly enough, Vegas proved a touch better under Vista, but it fell short with the other two tests.

          Final Thoughts

          I don’t necessarily recommend Vista to anyone at this point in time, simply because it’s not needed. In the two months that I’ve been using it full time on my Windows machine, I’ve run into too many weird bugs that I would have liked to have avoided. This ranges from applications not working, quirky UI glitches or hardware drivers not working as well as they should.

          well guys i have been vindicated all allong.
          ta mick

        • #2503764

          independent testing has shown that vista is not ready

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to more recent testing proves i was right all allong with vistas

          for the consumer market.I have painted ableak picture of vista not being ready that they call it work in progress & saying i’ts vista ready when it clearly i’sn’t.
          There are far too many problems as were outlined in the independent tests.There are warnings should you buy vista you are on your own because no one can guarrantee the performance.
          ta mick

        • #2503760

          another reason why vista will not be taken up like

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to independent testing has shown that vista is not ready

          other releases:Vista: Costs limit Education Dept deployment
          By Munir Kotadia and Scott Mckenzie, ZDNet Australia
          27 November 2006 04:59 PM

          After more than eight months of beta testing Microsoft Windows Vista, licensing and implementation costs have stymied mass adoption at the NSW Department of Education and Training (DET).

          Tim Anderson, DET Information Services Director, believes the battery of tests which have been conducted since February provided no compelling business case to migrate its hardware to Microsoft’s first major upgrade of its operating system since Windows XP.

          The possibility of running Linux-based desktop platforms is real for us
          DET considers Linux on the desktop — Tim Anderson, Information Services Director, NSW Education and Training Department
          Anderson is not alone in his reluctance to quickly embrace the new OS. A majority of chief information officers and administrators of Australian companies recently polled by ZDNet Australia are in no rush either.

          DET has one of the largest IT infrastructures in the country with 1.3 million users spread across 2,500 locations. Its desktop fleet consists of 250,000 devices of which 160,000 are personal computers. Macs make up 15 percent to 20 percent of the total, and are more common in primary schools. Microsoft is the dominant platform with DET standardising on Windows XP, however, because of the size of the organisation there are some Windows 98 and Windows 2000 legacy systems.

          In an exclusive interview, Anderson told ZDNet Australia that the decision to deploy Vista depended on implementation costs — which includes licensing — as well as the benefits delivered from migrating to the new OS.

          He said the migration costs and the fact that DET’s enterprise agreement with Microsoft was up for re-negotiation next year were both a factor in any future deployment decision.

          As a result, DET is currently taking a cautious approach to a wide scale rollout of Vista. It is considering other options such as sticking with XP, which could prove less costly in the long run.

          “We can stay with XP, it’s a good solid platform as it stands.

          “It’s taken a little while to get there but we’re pretty happy with its performance and its security and the way it fits with our educational objectives,” Anderson said. He didn’t rule out migrating a portion of its computers to open-source software.

          Despite his reservations, Anderson admitted DET would conduct a controlled deployment of Vista for training purposes, particularly in the technical and further education (TAFE) sector, where teachers and students needed to have access to the most up-to-date hardware and software.

          “Under the early adopter program we are committed to doing 1,000 deployments by sometime in the middle of the first semester next year, and we’ll honour that.

          “I know there is already a pent-up demand for Vista from teaching staff that want to be in the position to provide current training on the latest products,” he said.

          Vista under the spotlight
          The first beta version of Vista was released in July 2005. It is the role of DET’s Information Technology Directorate, to keep an eye on the technology trends at both the operating system level and the applications level. That means taking a close look at Microsoft’s roadmap for its products and see whether the technology fits with the department’s requirements.

          DET was interested in many questions, including: how far back Vista could be retrofitted to its current fleet and whether the upgraded OS would fulfil the particular objectives the department had in desktop management.

          An extensive testing regime not only within the IT Directorate, but with a pilot program at Ashcroft High School in Sydney’s South West since July has enabled the department to determine Vista’s usefulness now and in the future.

          “We can see where we would get benefits from the overall management of the fleet by Vista, particularly some of the capabilities it has in image management and the deployment of software,” Anderson said.

          DET buys hardware from a fairly narrow range of vendors, but at any one time it can have up to 100 different hardware configurations in play. This means that the department needs to maintain an equal number of system images to manage a deployment of a piece of software, which is quite costly.

          For Anderson, Vista’s image formatting capabilities is one of the reasons to upgrade to the OS. He said the ability that Vista has to separate the various layers of the operating system so that it could manage a single system image for the whole state was very attractive.

          “We haven’t got down to a dollar value yet,” he said. “However, the ability for the department as a whole to deploy a standardised system image and then provide the means for local administrators to tailor that or localise that should have a significant effect on cost.”

          Imaging capabilities and the ability of the OS to maintain the security of the desktop aside, there are few benefits to switching from legacy systems to Vista, according to Anderson.

          He believes the involvement of third party application developers — who take advantage of Vista’s kernel structure — is needed to make a compelling business case for organisations (like DET) to deploy the OS.

          “It’s a bit like the changeover from DOS to Windows if you like,” Anderson said. “That is until there’s an application level driver for changing platforms then it’s really more a question of manageability and security of the operating system.”
          I’ve been saying this all allong
          ta mick

        • #2508347

          well,well i was right vista is not taken up much ms has finally

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Well michael i’m wrong again seeing you are fond of pc

          admitted by ms:
          Well it’s good to be right!
          the factors are I asked that question to analysts and Microsoft executives yesterday during Microsoft’s Vista partner launch, and I got some surprising answers.

          Cost weighed in as a major consideration, along with driver compatibility and potential customers (Microsoft expects bigger initial retail box sales of Ultimate than PC preloads). All three factors are legitimate reasons, and all three are likely right. Together they raise questions about whether Microsoft’s version strategy simply doesn’t make sense.
          Ultimate’s ultimate pricing–$399 for full-version retail and $259 for an upgrade–is an obvious purchase barrier. Microsoft doesn’t release OEM pricing, but Dell, Gateway and HP add-on pricing–$170, $160 and $120, respectively–gives some perspective. The add-on pricing is on top of what the customer already pays for Windows Vista Home Premium.
          well ho hum to that
          mick

        • #2508333

          well,well.once again ms is caught out advertising that vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well,well i was right vista is not taken up much ms has finally

          is faster & better than xp.Well benchmarking & testing has proved them wrong it’s the other way around.
          The fact now is that Vista is indeed slower rather than faster than XP, not only that but it is full of problems ranging from UI issues to some serious ones like IDE and Network performance. I’ts not simply the hardware & drivers but the actual op system that’s at fault.Also vista comes preloaded
          with something like 20,000 drivers.They all can’t be faulty??
          Worst case scenario is ms is simply trying to flog as much vista as it can & it hopes direct x 10 will be taken up.
          ta mick

        • #2508330

          confirmation from pc world that vista is slower at gaming than xp

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well,well.once again ms is caught out advertising that vista

          There is an article in February 2007 issue of PC World that says that Windows Vista is slower than Windows XP. Some games like Far Cry run up to 25% slower in Windows Vista than in Windows XP. DON’T waste your money on Windows Vista if you play games like Far Cry. definetly not
          ta mick

        • #2506555

          It’s too early for wild-ass statements

          by lasersteel ·

          In reply to well,well i was right vista is not taken up much ms has finally

          In the words of another writer;

          ?Techies have been talking to themselves about Vista for more than a year.

          Consumers and businesses will be the ultimate arbiter of Vista success and they haven’t even weighed in yet. ?

          http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=4380&tag=nl.e550

          It really is too early for wild statements about the take-up-rate!

        • #2495923

          the article says that vista skepticism pervades

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to It’s too early for wild-ass statements

          perhaps it is misplaced?? not in the way of the available evidence.Ms has been hiding under a bushell cloud hoping that people will fall for the brand new os syndrome.What people don’t realise is that vista is not any better than xp in the performance stakes in fact xp is more stable & performs better than vista.As the article says This just in?Vista is launching to consumers and the Web is buzzing with worries over how to upgrade (and whether those worries are legit), stories about demand and primers on killer apps and pitfalls.People are right to be worried & it is not misplaced!!

          One common thread: Folks are pretty damn skeptical about Vista.

          Yes Vista is an OS X wannabe. analysts who don’t see a big Vista bang. Vista is the clunker everyone seems to think it is maybe it shouldn’t have launched yes simply because ms allowed it to be.

          Is Vista a quantum leap? Probably not. But it’s an improvement over XP. No it’s not i’ts the opposite.Oh people are skeptical of vista & they are right to be.
          this is pure speculation “If my hunch is correct and Vista actually shows a little spark we could quickly be writing about hardware supply issues. After all, PC manufacturers seem to be putting their dollars behind their skepticism.
          Well manufacturers have left vista so far behind that it’s not funny.

          Pacific Crest analyst Brendan Barnicle said in a research note that OEMs have been cutting back on their component orders for Vista PCs. Barnicle gives the following reasons for the demand slowdown:

          PC makers think Vista PCs cost too much this is correct;
          Retailers don’t think Vista demand will be strong this is correct;
          Manufacturers are already saddled with inventory of components such as graphics cards cards are too expensive.
          Barnicle said:

          “Although Vista is an improvement over Windows XP,This is totally incorrect” we have been skeptical that it would drive consumer demand”. The commentary from the PC supply chain provides another reason to be skeptical about near-term outperformance from Vista.”

          There’s that word again?skeptical. I’m a little less skeptical for one simple reason. Techies have been talking to themselves about Vista for more than a year. Consumers and businesses will be the ultimate arbiter of Vista success and they haven’t even weighed in yet. Yes but people have allready made the decision they will not upgrade to vista as it leaves a lot to be desired.
          why does one bother !
          ta mick

        • #2495908

          there was no bang at the vista launch but a whimper!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to the article says that vista skepticism pervades

          people are reminded of the empty promises by ms.As ms was hoping to rake in the money that is not happening. The New York Times reports that that would be the largest product launch in Microsoft history. A microsoft-funded report predicts that Vista will generate nearly $70 billion in sales and 157,000 jobs related to Vista in 2007. Running under the tagline “Wow”, Microsoft is calling Vista a “new era of personal computing.” Consumers, however, are not initially reciprocating Microsoft’s enthusiasm. Niall Kennedy writes, “Earlier tonight I attendeded a Windows Vista launch event in San Francisco and was surprised to find not a single person in line to buy the software less .Well what have i been saying that ms want’s your money for their clunker os.

          ta mick

    • #2495921

      I got this in my e-mail about Vista

      by ang2006 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      It is a newsletter from this site: http://www.infopackets.com/channels/en/windows/bills_links_and_more/2007/20070130_windows_vista_drm_suicidal.htm

      A lot of the hoopla surrounding the new Windows Vista operating system (OS) is based on it’s new multimedia capabilities.

      However, users purchasing Vista to use the much-hyped and enhanced multimedia capabilities to watch high definition or blu-ray DVDs — or to listen to audio CDs — may be in for a very upsetting surprise.

      In a disturbing, albeit, eye-opening white paper detailing a cost analysis of Windows Vista Contect Protection, Peter Gutmann (a Department of Computer Science security engineering researcher at the University of Auckland, New Zealand) details the consequences of Microsoft’s new Digital Rights Management (DRM) cost in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, as well as hardware and software costs and their affect on Windows Vista users and the computer industry.

      In a nutshell: the paper explains how a new kind of technology is built into Windows Vista that will take high-definition DVDs, blu-ray DVDs, and audio discs, and degrade the play back quality drastically because of the content protection mechanism built into Vista, as well as the Microsoft requirements for drivers. At one point, he refers to the new content protection scheme as “suicidal.”

      Per the white paper, the new operating system will limit the functionality of certain pieces of hardware (such as video cards and monitors) from viewing High Definition (HD) content, requiring customized device drivers. It also requires that hardware vendors “get the OK” from major movie studios such as MGM, 20th Century Fox and Disney before releasing their drivers to the public.

      On top of that, additional costs will be incurred by hardware vendors because Microsoft disallows a one-size-fits-all design for devices in the new system. Futhermore, it bans the use of add-ons such as TV-out encoders, DVI circuitry and other add-ons, since the new OS disallows the feeding of unprotected video and audio to external components.

      According to the movie studios and Microsoft, that would make it too easy for a user to get around the copy right protected content. As a result, the devices will require a more custom design before being compatible with the new OS.

      The white paper also details the elimination of open source hardware since Vista will require Hardware Functionality Scan (HFS) (basically a unique fingerprint) to make sure the content is genuine. In order to provide that kind of uniqueness, vendors and developers would not be able to release any details of their devices. If a weakness is found in the drivers or devices, the OS will disable it.

      A 2 megabyte MS Word file from Microsoft, which details the content protection planned for Vista, is available from Ed Felten’s (a professor of computer science at Princeton University) freedom to tinker blog.

      The complete white paper by Mr. Gutmann is approximately 6000 words, and it barely touches the highlights. It’s a long and technical read, but the author brings up several good points and a lot of things to think about before jumping head-first into Vista.

      In response to Mr. Gutmann’s paper, Microsoft issued a response on their Windows Vista Team blog which, as usual, raises more questions than answers.

      Note also that if a user purchases another sound card and installs it after Vista has been installed, for example, this will modify your computer’s hardware profile (a unique fingerprint). If Vista determines that it’s running on a different profile, you’ll need to reactivate Vista or it will run in “reduced” mode.

      So, is the new Windows Vista content protection scheme “suicidal” as this paper explains, or is it much ado about nothing? We’ll find out soon.

      Oh yeah, one more thing: if you’re ordering a new computer from one of several manufacturers, bear in mind that you should still be able to demand one with Windows XP if preferred.

      As I have wondered many times, is Vista just a trap which we will get entangled in when XP works just fine and has no problems with driver certification or anti-virus difficulties. I still say there are too many loss ends here for me to waste my time and money only to find out that maybe the safest thing would have been stay with XP to start with. There are no problems with my XP Pro.

      • #2495891

        your comments are spot on & the link definetely

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to I got this in my e-mail about Vista

        Is correct that what ms has done is really suicidal.There are huge complications out there if people adopt vista.Typical catch phrase is “wouldn’t have minded a Windows XP service pack offering just ASLR. But Microsoft wants me to pay $200 for security features I don’t use or need just to get the one feature I truly do need.”
        ta mick

        • #2495364

          Besides

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to your comments are spot on & the link definetely

          I do not like all this playing around with the video capabilities and what not. If the computer is mine and the operating system is bought with my money—then I will use the machine as I see fit, whether to back up CDs or DVDs, whatever. Big Brother be damned!

        • #2495322

          DRM is the key issue

          by lasersteel ·

          In reply to Besides

          which is why the hardware and the video and the lockdowns for licenses (activation/validation etc)are occuring.

          Software As A Service is also on the (hidden) agenda ie; paying for software by metering per minute of use).

          The model is wrong (for the business community anyway) but how come Microsoft doesnt yet realize that!

          Maybe we could see Microsoft become a micro software house?

        • #2496557

          a lot of people are saying that ms has committed suicide

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to DRM is the key issue

          with drm.This will ultimately kill off ms as we know it.
          ta mick

        • #2496248

          In essence you are fighting a losing battle.

          by lasersteel ·

          In reply to a lot of people are saying that ms has committed suicide

          MS (and many others behind the scenes) have invested too much in DRM not to make it happen. You are mistaken if you see this as suicide attempt, even if it is clumsy.

          End users will end up paying even if they go via Open Source as a lot of the images and content have already been bought up by Microsoft. Besides, anyone who thinks Open Source is “without cost” doesn?t understand the business of running a business. DRM will apply irrespective of whether you use MS or Open Source eventually.

          Software As A Service (SAAS) is also rumoured to be part of the business ?licensing? model of the future and behind the scenes you have the telcos (baby bells in US), the ISPs and the movie/music industry who all intend to share in the $ revenues that will flow from DRM. Font licensing revenue is also on the agenda under DRM.

          In essence you are fighting a losing battle.

          Having said that MS does need to be more adaptive to suit the market as they just don?t understand the business drivers and the costs of doing business at the grass roots level.

          ?We are the ones who let them invade our workspace and now we can’t get rid of them?, as our businesses, in most cases, rely on their software in one form or another, if not for internal use or communicating and doing business with our trading partners.

          If you wanted to kill them off you needed to do it years ago, when there was an opportunity to do so, which is lost I believe unless you invent a better mousetrap and don?t even suggest that Open Source is that better mousetrap as it does cost!

          MS has got big, fat dumb and happy because we, the end users kept demanding more and more features and inclusions in the software and now that the software has got big, fat, bloated, and expensive ?we? are complaining. Doesn?t add up to me! Would we have been better off keeping low with our demands we might have been better off? I doubt it.

          Like has been said before, this sort of debate and ranting went on over Win95, Win98, WinNT, Win XP for those of us that are old enough (I’ve been in the computer industry in one form or another since 1973) to remember.

          I?d venture to say there will also be detractors complaining about the UBAVista (Mark II version) or whatever name it goes by, and we’ll be arguing the same again.

          The bottomline – performance means different things to different “applications or uses? of the software. eg; games, vs accounting, vs techno ?experts?, vs defence, vs government, vs manufacturing, vs research vs education etc.

          We all want different things in terms of performance for the out-of-the-box operating system delivered, so there is no one size that fits all when it comes to performance.

          MS is here to stay and I am not paid by MS to say this, it?s just a fact of life, and though it may change shape (due to perceived loss of customers churning to Open Source etc), it will be around a long time.

          It certainly needs to get a better understanding of how business works and what drives the cost of business and then they might deliver a leaner, stable operating system (patched once a year instead of 30 times) with installed applications that work tirelessly without interference/virus attack/security attack so that business can get on with life and do what business needs to do.

          They have started to do this with Vista Ultimate (with Bit Defender) but leaner and secure are contradictions in reality under these circumstances!

        • #2500057

          so true of ms as it’s had a monopoly

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to In essence you are fighting a losing battle.

          unless there are other companies getting into the operating system market then we deserve what we get.But as time rolls on we may get alternatives to ms & windows.
          ta mick

        • #2535826

          it’s only a matter of time

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to In essence you are fighting a losing battle.

          you have other players getting into the op system production that will take away the monopoly from ms.Pretty soon ms is going to pay for it’s ignorance & complacency.
          The public are slowly catching on to the lame duck ms has released.
          ta mick

        • #2496559

          you aredefinitely right you are the ultimate consumer

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Besides

          you paid your money you should use it as you wish big brother or sister can go to hell.
          ta mick

      • #2496674

        1 Point

        by now left tr ·

        In reply to I got this in my e-mail about Vista

        “and degrade the play back quality drastically because of the content protection mechanism built into Vista”

        Then offers no substance to back up such claims!!! – Not even in the link URL.

        Finally

        All that has been said above (right to the top of this forum) has been said every version of Windows that has ever been released. Did not make any difference then and it won’t now!

        Live with it – you will have to use & support it very soon, like it or not.

        • #2495786

          Another point

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to 1 Point

          —-Live with it – you will have to use & support it very soon, like it or not.—–

          Don’t put any grocery money on that, else you’ll go hungry. XP is as good as I need and I have heard nothing in thousands of posts to make me think Vista is worth more than XP. Some for and some against but nothing to really make it worth having. More along the lines of newer must mean better–that is about all I have heard—not a logical argument, sorry.

        • #2496563

          AHEM

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to Another point

          “XP is as good as I need and I have heard nothing in thousands of posts to make me think Vista is worth more than XP”

          I, I….I

          What about the customers who will be using it – not YOU. You support the customers so voilla!

        • #2496539

          you know tech mail you have painted a thousand

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to AHEM

          pictures, vista has along way to go to beat xp.
          ta mick

        • #2496537

          what are we support people going to say to our

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to you know tech mail you have painted a thousand

          consumers go out & buy vista?? no stay with
          xp until vista is more stable etc & all the bugs & problems have been sorted out.
          ta mick

        • #2496405

          Nobody listens to Support Staff

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to what are we support people going to say to our

          Do they?

          Upper suits want it, the get it, you support it.

          End Off

        • #2496307

          and After they do anyway?

          by dawgit ·

          In reply to what are we support people going to say to our

          or “It came with the ‘New’ computer”. And then “What do I do”, “It don’t work” and “Fix it”.
          I’m not quite sure what my “Response” will be. -d

        • #2496400

          …and a picture says a thousand words!!!!

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to you know tech mail you have painted a thousand

          .

        • #2500053

          yes you know what i mean

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to …and a picture says a thousand words!!!!

          ms is trully stuffed after their release of vista with so many problems it’s all happening at once.
          ta mick

        • #2496543

          tried & tested is the word

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Another point

          that’s why a tested product is better& also
          xp operates faster than vista.
          we know that ms wants us all to convert to vista so they can make more money out of us.
          ta mick

        • #2496403

          tried & tested is TWO WORDS!!!

          by now left tr ·

          In reply to tried & tested is the word

          .

        • #2500060

          i mean’t two but i mean’t to say it like a

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to tried & tested is TWO WORDS!!!

          buzzwordas one.We are not going to use vista for a long time as the costs are prohibitive,
          ta mick

        • #2500051

          broken windows theory

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to 1 Point

          taken from msdn:
          The World As Best As I Remember It
          Alert reader Bobby is Back!
          Broken Windows Theory
          Vista. The term stirs the imagination to conceive of beautiful possibilities just around the corner. And ?just around the corner? is what Windows Vista has been, and has remained, for the past two years. In this time, Vista has suffered a series of high-profile delays, including most recently the announcement that it would be delayed until 2007. The largest software project in mankind?s history now threatens to also be the longest.

          [I originally deleted the rest of this post of my own volition, without any pressure whatsoever from people within the company, because the discussion around it wasn’t constructive. I’ve now restored the original content unedited. More discussion on this topic here. – Ed.]

          Admittedly, this essay would be easier written for Slashdot, where taut lines divide the world crisply into black and white. “Vista is a bloated piece of crap,”? my furry little penguin would opine, “written by the bumbling serfs of an evil capitalistic megalomaniac.”? But that’d be dead wrong. The truth is far more nuanced than that. Deeper than that. More subtle than that.

          I managed developer teams in Windows for five years, and have only begun to reflect on the experience now that I have recently switched teams. Through a series of conversations with other leaders that have similarly left The Collective, several root causes have emerged as lasting characterizations of what’s really wrong in The Empire.


          Useless Trivia Sidebar: Broken Windows Theory

          The original broken windows theory, first coined by Wilson and Kelling, describes the purported phenomenon whereby an abandoned warehouse with no broken windows is mostly left alone, but as soon as one window is broken, it acts as an open invitation to passers-by that it’s open-season for rock-throwing.

          This was generally accepted for many years as being true, but is recently coming under fire from different angles. We won’t delve into those here, since we mostly commandeered the phrase because it sounded good, not because it actually has anything at all to do with our subject matter.


          The Usual Suspects

          Ask any developer in Windows why Vista is plagued by delays, and they’ll say that the code is way too complicated, and that the pace of coding has been tremendously slowed down by overbearing process. These claims have already been covered in other popular literature. A quick recap for those of you just joining the broadcast:


          Windows code is too complicated. It’s not the components themselves, it’s their interdependencies. An architectural diagram of Windows would suggest there are more than 50 dependency layers (never mind that there also exist circular dependencies). After working in Windows for five years, you understand only, say, two of them. Add to this the fact that building Windows on a dual-proc dev box takes nearly 24 hours, and you’ll be slow enough to drive Miss Daisy.
          Windows process has gone thermonuclear. Imagine each little email you send asking someone else to fill out a spreadsheet, comment on a report, sign off on a decision — is a little neutron shooting about in space. Your innocent-seeming little neutron now causes your heretofore mostly-harmless neighbors to release neutrons of their own. Now imagine there are 9000 of you, all jammed into a tight little space called Redmond. It’s Windows Gone Thermonuclear, a phenomenon by which process engenders further process, eventually becoming a self-sustaining buzz of fervent destructive activity.

          Let’s see if, quantitatively, there’s any truth to the perception that the code velocity (net lines shipped per developer-year) of Windows has slowed, or is slow relative to the industry. Vista is said to have over 50 million lines of code, whereas XP was said to have around 40 million. There are about two thousand software developers in Windows today. Assuming there are 5 years between when XP shipped and when Vista ships, those quick on the draw with calculators will discover that, on average, the typical Windows developer has produced one thousand new lines of shipped code per year during Vista. Only a thousand lines a year. (Yes, developers don’t just write new code, they also fix old code. Yes, some of those Windows developers were partly busy shipping 64-bit XP. Yes, many of them also worked on hotfixes. Work with me here.)

          Lest those of you who wrote 5,000 lines of code last weekend pass a kidney stone at the thought of Windows developers writing only a thousand lines of code a year, realize that the average software developer in the US only produces around (brace yourself) 6200 lines a year. So Windows is in bad shape — but only by a constant, not by an order of magnitude. And if it makes you feel any better, realize that the average US developer has fallen in KLOC productivity since 1999, when they produced about 9000 lines a year. So Windows isn’t alone in this. [KLOC data comes from ?Worldwide IT Trends & Benchmark Report 2001?, produced by META Group (now acquired by Gartner)]

          The oft-cited, oft-watercooler-discussed dual phenomenon of Windows code complexity and Windows process burden seem to have dramatically affected its overall code velocity. But code can be simplified and re-architected (and is indeed being done so by a collection of veteran architects in Windows, none of whom, incidentally, look anything like Colonel Sanders). Process can be streamlined where inefficient, eliminated where unnecessary.

          But that’s not where it ends. There are deeper causes of Windows’ propensity to slippage.

          Cultured to Slip

          Deep in the bowels of Windows, there remains the whiff of a bygone culture of belittlement and aggression. Windows can be a scary place to tell the truth.

          When a vice president in Windows asks you whether your team will ship on time, they might well have asked you whether they look fat in their new Armani suit. The answer to the question is deeply meaningful to them. It’s certainly true in some sense that they genuinely want to know. But in a very important other sense, in a sense that you’ll come to regret night after night if you get it wrong, there’s really only one answer you can give.

          After months of hearing of how a certain influential team in Windows was going to cause the Vista release to slip, I, full of abstract self-righteous misgivings as a stockholder, had at last the chance to speak with two of the team’s key managers, asking them how they could be so, please-excuse-the-term, I-don’t-mean-its-value-laden-connotation, ignorant as to proper estimation of software schedules. Turns out they’re actually great project managers. They knew months in advance that the schedule would never work. So they told their VP. And he, possibly influenced by one too many instances where engineering re-routes power to the warp core, thus completing the heretofore impossible six-hour task in a mere three, summarily sent the managers back to “figure out how to make it work.”? The managers re-estimated, nipped and tucked, liposuctioned, did everything short of a lobotomy — and still did not have a schedule that fit. The VP was not pleased. “You’re smart people. Find a way!” This went back and forth for weeks, whereupon the intrepid managers finally understood how to get past the dilemma. They simply stopped telling the truth. “Sure, everything fits. We cut and cut, and here we are. Vista by August or bust. You got it, boss.”

          Every once in a while, Truth still pipes up in meetings. When this happens, more often than not, Truth is simply bent over an authoritative knee and soundly spanked into silence.


          The Joy of Cooking

          Bundled with a tendency towards truth-intolerance, Windows also sometimes struggles with poor organizational decision-making. Good news is that the senior leaders already know this and have been taking active steps to change the situation.

          There are too many cooks in the kitchen. Too many vice presidents, in reporting structures too narrow. When I was in Windows, I reported to Alec, who reported to Peter, to Bill, Rick, Will, Jim, Steve, and Bill. Remember that there were two layers of people under me as well, making a total path depth of 11 people from Bill Gates down to any developer on my team.

          This isn’t necessarily bad, except sometimes the cooks flash-mob one corner of the kitchen. I once sat in a schedule review meeting with at least six VPs and ten general managers. When that many people have a say, things get confusing. Not to mention, since so many bosses are in the room, there are often negotiations between project managers prior to such meetings to make sure that no one ends up looking bad. “Bob, I’m giving you a heads-up that I’m going to say that your team’s component, which we depend on, was late.”? “That’s fine, Sandy, but please be clear that the unforeseen delays were caused by a third party, not my team.”

          Micromanagement, though not pervasive, is nevertheless evident. Senior vice presidents sometimes review UI designs of individual features, a nod to Steve Jobs that would in better days have betokened a true honor but for its randomizing effects. Give me a cathedral, give me a bazaar — really, either would be great. Just not this middle world in which some decisions are made freely while others are made by edict, with no apparent logic separating each from the other but the seeming curiosity of someone in charge.

          In general, Windows suffers from a proclivity for action control, not results control. Instead of clearly stating desired outcomes, there’s a penchant for telling people exactly what steps they must take. By doing so, we risk creating a generation of McDevs. (For more on action control vs. results control, read Kenneth Merchant’s seminal work on the subject — all $150 of it, apparently).

          Uncontrolled? Or Uncontrollable?

          We shouldn’t forget despite all this that Windows Vista remains the largest concerted software project in human history. The types of software management issues being dealt with by Windows leaders are hard problems, problems that no other company has solved successfully. The solutions to these challenges are certainly not trivial.

          An interesting question, however, is whether or not Windows Vista ever had a chance to ship on time to begin with. Is Vista merely uncontrolled? Or is it fundamentally uncontrollable? There is a critical difference.

          It’s rumored that VPs in Windows were offered big bonuses contingent on shipping Vista by the much-publicized August 2006 date. Chris Jones even declared in writing that he wouldn’t take a bonus if Vista slips past August. If this is true, if folks like Brian Valentine held division-wide meetings where August 2006 was declared as the drop-dead ship date, if general managers were consistently told of the fiscal importance of hitting August, if everyone down to individual developers was told to sign on the dotted line to commit to the date, and to speak up if they had any doubts of hitting it — mind you, every last one of those things happened — and yet, and yet, the August date was slipped, one has to wonder whether it was merely illusory, given the collective failure of such unified human will, that Vista was ever controllable in the first place.

          Are Vista-scale software projects essentially uncontrollable by nature? Or has Microsoft been beset by one too many broken windows?

          Vista is meant to be the operating systemt the standard for operating systems to be judged .
          Deep in the bowels of Windows, there remains the whiff of a bygone culture of belittlement and aggression. Windows can be a scary place to tell the truth. When a vice president in Windows asks you whether your team will ship on time, they might well have asked you whether they look fat in their new Armani suit. The answer to the question is deeply meaningful to them. It?s certainly true in some sense that they genuinely want to know. But in a very important other sense, in a sense that you?ll come to regret night after night if you get it wrong, there?s really only one answer you can give.
          yeah,yeah that’s certainly true
          mick

      • #2500282

        a lot of people point out what i haveallready stated

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to I got this in my e-mail about Vista

        Throughout the testing of the past releases, it was strikingly evident how incomplete Vista’s code was. Various incomplete features, missing graphics, place-holder text messages, and a plethora of bugs, left many feeling very underwhelmed, and increasingly worried by the next operating system from Microsoft.Worried they should be as a lot of promises were made to fix this or that & it fell on death ears.
        My testing revealed how much slower is vista to xp in that one pc magazine journalist said that “now Vista appears little more than an ill-performing version of XP with a glorified interface”.
        We are also told vista is mean’t to be this revolutionary os.Others are saying that “Unfortunately Vista provides little to no benefit for end users compared to that of the previous version of Windows, released five years ago in 2001.”
        There seems to be too much bloat & too much resource hungry features.For example When xp starts it uses about 250 to 300mb to do it.
        Where as when vista starts it continues to gobble up resources at over 500 to 550 megabytes.Also even at idle vista seems to gobble much more resources than xp.
        One would be astounded at what really goes on when the system is idle.
        Boot up time can take longer on vista by as much as 15 to 20 seconds hardly awe inspiring.
        ta mick

    • #2500044

      ms still has a long way to go top rotect vista

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      from zdnet:Microsoft’s own antivirus software, Live OneCare, is unable to fully protect Vista users against viruses, and one of security firm McAfee’s antivirus software packages also fails to protect users, according to independent research released Friday.

      Security news site Virus Bulletin, backed by a team of security researchers based in Oxfordshire, U.K., tested 15 antivirus software packages used by businesses and designed specifically for Vista, Microsoft’s newest operating system. The packages were released to businesses two months ago.

      The researchers tested whether each of the antivirus products would stop a set of viruses known to be currently circulating. In order to be awarded a pass, the software had to detect all the viruses with no false positives.

      But out of the 15, four failed: Microsoft Live OneCare 1.5; McAfee VirusScan Enterprise version 8.1i; G DATA AntiVirusKit 2007 v17.0.6353; and Norman VirusControl v5.90. The other 11, including software from CA, Fortinet, F-Secure, Kaspersky, Sophos and Symantec, detected all the viruses.

      “With the number of delays that we’ve seen in Vista’s release, there’s no excuse for security vendors not to have got their products right by now,” said John Hawes, technical consultant at Virus Bulletin. “In these days of hourly updates, it’s always a surprise and a disappointment to see major products missing them (viruses). Vista cannot fend off today’s malware without help from security products. It certainly looks like people upgrading to the new platform are going to need additional security solutions.”

      Joe Telafici, vice president of operations for McAfee’s Avert Labs, told ZDNet UK that, in his opinion, Virus Bulletin had not used its latest antivirus updates, causing the failure. He said McAfee would issue further results with the updated software.

      Microsoft pledged to improve Live OneCare. “We are looking closely at the methodology and results of the test to ensure that Windows Live OneCare performs better in future tests and, most importantly, as part of our ongoing work to continually enhance Windows Live OneCare,” a company representative told ZDNet UK.

      On the subject of Vista, the Microsoft representative added: “It’s important to remember that no software is 100 percent secure. Microsoft is working to keep the number of security vulnerabilities that ship in our products to a minimum, through our Security Development Lifecycle process, and that work is paying off. The release of Windows Vista is the first Microsoft operating system to use the Security Development Lifecycle from start to finish and was tested more, prior to shipping, than any previous version of Windows.”

      ta mick

      • #2496955

        I agree Totally!

        by bionicbron ·

        In reply to ms still has a long way to go top rotect vista

        I have tried Vista, both the 32bit and 64bit. I build computers in my small shop and I do the software loads, upgrades, and tech support for the systems I build. I currently install Windows XP on the systems I build and I will continue to. In the past I, like many others have kept up on the latest Microsoft developments, and upgraded both the software applications and the hardward in my computers. This seems like a never ending and expensive business. I have commented in past that, “A computer is a hole in your desk, that you keep pouring money into.” That being said, in my opinion Microsoft’s Vista is going to fall along the wayside like their Windows Millenium Addition did. I treated Windows Vista like I did Windows ME, I installed it, tried it for a week or two, then formated the system, and went back to the previous software. I am sure that many others will do the same. I will tell all my customers to wait for Microsoft to better and I’m sure they will soon. It’s just sad that companys like Microsoft practice buisness on the shady side of the street. This is just my opinion, and I know I’m not alone.

        • #2498744

          i have to agree with you 100%

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I agree Totally!

          That’s exactly what i’ve done.You are spot on regards the hole in the desk that’s pretty right.After all these years as loyal customers
          you’d think that ms would make another service pack or edition for xp.No they want a new windows so they can make more money.
          Until such time as vista is more developed i don’t think too many people are ready to part
          with their hard earned money.
          ta mick

        • #2517474

          vista is a doomed failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I agree Totally!

          dismal failure

    • #2498694

      More Problems

      by ang2006 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Here are some more problems reported with Vista from the komando.com newsletter:

      Ipod problems:

      APPLE RELEASES ITUNES REPAIR TOOL FOR VISTA
      Nobody ever said upgrading to Vista would be easy. But it seems that many iPod owners have been hit particularly hard. There have been a number of reported compatibility issues with iTunes 7.0.2. For example, some iTunes purchases won?t play on Vista.
      There have also been problems with syncing and ejecting iPods. There are things you can do to make the transition smoother. First, enable disk use on your iPod. Connect the iPod and right-click it in iTunes. On the Summary tab, deselect Enable Disk Use and click Apply.

      Also, deauthorize your music before you upgrade. In iTunes, click Store>>Deauthorize Computer. Enter your Apple ID and password. Click OK.

      Firewall Problems:

      My old computer broke. Since it was under warranty, the store replaced it with a new machine running Vista. I really wasn?t ready to make the switch. But now I have no choice. I tried to download ZoneAlarm, but it won?t work on Vista. That means I?m left without a decent firewall. Can you recommend one that will work on Vista?
      Steve in Joplin, MO

      I received this question on the show last week. I told the listener to go with Windows Vista?s firewall. It can be configured to be perfectly satisfactory.
      But Vista?s firewall isn?t for everyone. It is difficult to configure. And, unlike ZoneAlarm, it won?t prompt you to allow outbound connections on the fly.
      The Vista firewall is an improvement over the one in Windows XP. It can be used to block outbound connections as well as incoming ones.
      Unfortunately, though, outbound connections are allowed by default. And configuring it to block outbound transmissions is probably beyond most people?s comfort level. Nonetheless, I?m going to explain the firewall?s configuration. Then, I?ll tell you how to do it easily, for a mere $50!
      You may want another firewall. In the past, I have recommended the free ZoneAlarm firewall. But ZoneAlarm?s Vista firewall is not ready, as you point out. We could not find any free firewalls for Vista.
      However, you can purchase a firewall. Norton Internet Security 2007 ($70) works, although Norton Personal Firewall does not. Or, you can use McAfee?s Internet Security Suite (starting at $50).

      This just continues to confirm my fears of too many problems associated with Vista. And the beat goes on????.

      • #2500291

        i know of heaps of problems

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to More Problems

        people who have recently bought vista were shocked to learn vista will not perform unless you have proper drivers.Trying to run unsigned drivers is asking for trouble.
        Also even if one buys the latest hardware or software there is no guarantee that it is going to be compatible.Just because someone has said it’s vista ready doesn’t mean it’s ready.I have seen people simply go
        back to XP.
        ta mick

        • #2490198

          well latest news is that sales of vista have flopped

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i know of heaps of problems

          Pretty soon heads will be rolling at the ms camp.As the return to shareholders will not be fully realised.Ms has gone over budget on vista it is ms’s biggest money spending system .Sales are depressed at the moment.People are buying pcs but are not installing vista.
          ta mick

    • #2509588

      because of too many problems with vista

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Dell can’t make hand-built Vista machines

      Can’t get the wood you know

      By Nick Farrell: Monday 26 February 2007, 06:51

      PUNTERS WAITING for Dell to custom build high-end hardware with Microsoft’s new Vista operating system might be waiting for Godot.
      According to Information Week, Dell has been forced to admit that two of its top end custom built gaming machines can’t run Vista.

      Two of Dell’s high-end PCs, the XPS M1710 notebook and the XPS 710 desktop, both gaming computers, are still shipping with XP because of driver incompatibility with Vista.

      A spokesDell said that there were some compatibility problems with some of the peripherals. Dell said that this was the same sort of problem that every hardware outfit has when there is a major shift on an operating system.

      However that has not stopped Dell recommending Vista for products that can’t use it. Information Week tells the sad story of a bloke who wanted to buy a Latitude D420 notebook because it was recommended as Vista compatible. Then he discovered that all he could have on the laptop was a Bluetooth hardware, a DVD burner and an Intel processor with biometric reader, nothing else would work
      that’s it folks
      ta mick

      • #2509586

        gamers see red with vista problems galore

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to because of too many problems with vista

        Tuesday 13 Feb 2007 – 09:08

        Windows Vista’s powerful new graphics engine may be one of its hallmark features, but it’s engendering complaints from a key segment of potential early adopters: hardcore gamers.

        A small but significant number of games written for Windows XP either crash or creep along slowly on Vista, according to numerous complaints by game enthusiasts in online forums.

        “Formatted PC, installed Vista, updated any drivers possible. Now half [of my] games will not run, or run with corrupt graphics,” lamented one poster on Jan. 31 in a discussion forum at graphics chipmaker Nvidia’s Web site.

        “You installed Vista. You deserve your problems. Heh,” replied a second poster.

        Most of the problems have been found in popular first-person shooter games such as CounterStrike, Half-Life 2, Doom 3 and F.E.A.R.

        Games, especially first-person shooters, tend to strain a PC’s graphics capabilities much more than business or even multimedia applications.

        Besides the occasional crash, the most common reports appear to be games whose animation speed, measured in frames per second, suffers under Vista.

        Experts blame still-flaky software drivers, Vista’s complexity and a dearth of new video cards optimized for Vista’s new rendering technology, DirectX 10.

        That’s despite promises from Microsoft that Vista is backwards-compatible with XP’s graphic engine, DirectX 9, and that it will support existing games.

        Meanwhile, games written to take advantage of DirectX 10 have been slow to emerge. And one Nvidia executive predicts that gamers may not routinely see games optimized for DirectX 10 until mid-2008.

        It’s not that bad, says Microsoft

        Chris Donahue, manager of Microsoft’s Games for Windows group, says the company has tested 1,000 popular games from the past five years. Most work well with Vista, he said, declining to elaborate how many had problems and why.

        Vista’s DirectX 10 is reportedly a complete rewrite of Microsoft’s graphic engine that should allow games written for the platform to run much faster and display more textured, lifelike images than under DirectX 9.

        DirectX 10 is so advanced that even Vista’s advanced desktop interface, dubbed “Aero,” relies on the previous-generation DirectX 9 technology.

        Leading game publishers such as Electronic Arts Inc., PopCap Games Inc., Vivendi Games, THQ Inc., Slam Games and WildTangent Inc. are busily creating games taking advantage of DirectX 10, according to Microsoft. Microsoft, through its MSN Games group, is also releasing a number of less graphically-intensive “casual” games for Vista.

        But so far, Microsoft has only shown off — and only via screenshots and video clips — a handful of games that truly take advantage of DirectX 10. And many of those improvements appear to be subtle ones that only the most avid gamers will notice.

        Nvidia on the hot seat

        Besides complaining to Microsoft, users are compiling lists of games that do and do not work on Vista, such as the collections at zetafleet.com(download PDF), compatdb.org and NTcompatible.com.

        Graphics chipmakers such as Nvidia Corp., Intel Corp., and Advanced Micro Devices Inc. subsidiary ATI Technologies Inc. are rolling out drivers for existing graphics cards running their chips.

        But chipmakers are being criticized because of the slow appearance of those drivers, as well as their unreliability — even those that have been certified by Microsoft’s Windows Hardware Quality Labs (WHQL).

        Moreover, graphics chips optimized for DirectX 10 have yet to emerge from Intel or ATI, though the latter is expected to ship its first DirectX 10 processor, the R600, by midspring, according to unconfirmed reports.

        Santa Clara, Calif.-based Nvidia has released a processor for DirectX 10, the GeForce 8800. The drivers for the GeForce 8800, however, remain in beta and are not WHQL-certified.

        Some users are so disgruntled that they have created a Web site threatening a lawsuit.

        “Our [quality assurance staffers] didn’t expect there to be an extraordinary number of bugs, but people are hammering pretty hard on Vista, and there are obviously some parts that we missed,” said Daniel Vivoli, senior vice president for marketing at Nvidia.

        While pointing out that other vendors such as mouse and keyboard maker Logitech International SA, sound card maker Creative Technology Ltd. and Cisco Systems Inc., as well as its wireless print server subsidary, Cisco-Linksys LLC, have also gotten complaints for malfunctioning Vista drivers, Vivoli acknowledged that Nvidia deserves the criticism it is receiving.

        “Early adopters of Vista are the PC enthusiasts, and that’s where we have 90% market share, so it’s not surprising we get more heat than ATI,” he said.

        In response, Nvidia has created a page where users can directly report any problems with Vista drivers.

        It is also devoting heavy resources to fixing those drivers until “everyone is delighted,” Vivoli said.

        Games slow to level up

        So when will Vista-optimized games arrive?

        Besides driver problems, the lack of DirectX 10 video cards on the market so far has prevented game publishers from rushing to the new technology. Even Halo 2, Microsoft’s massive hit for the Xbox that it is busily porting over for a release later this year on Windows Vista, will still be based on XP’s DirectX 9 technology. That is changing. Nvidia said it plans to have an entire “top-to-bottom” family of GeForce 8800 chips by the end of the year.

        Microsoft’s Donahue, citing unnamed forecasters, predicted that up to 9 million DirectX 10 graphic cards or chip sets will be on the market by the end of this year.

        Microsoft is also working closely with game developers to train them in DirectX 10, though it is stopping short of offering financial incentives to move to the new platform.

        “I’d be very surprised to see any games that hit the market from this point forward straight out not support Windows Vista,” he said.

        But others equally plugged into game developers doubt such a quick timetable.

        “DirectX 10 is a different way of programming. It’s harder,” Nvidia’s Vivoli said. “I think it will take 12 to 18 months before we start to see all of the gaming titles coming out on DirectX 10.”
        see ya mick

        • #2509585

          Ms fined 1.5 gig for patent suit

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gamers see red with vista problems galore

          Microsoft fined $1.5B in patent suit
          Monday 26 Feb 2007 – 08:53

          A jury in federal court in San Diego has ordered that Microsoft pay US$1.5 billion in damages to Alcatel-Lucent for infringing on patents for MP3 encoding and decoding technology.

          Alcatel-Lucent, then called Lucent Technologies, first filed suit in 2003 against Microsoft customers Dell and Gateway for infringing on 15 patented technologies it said were being used in the Windows client operating system.
          that’s it guys
          mick

        • #2509584

          norton goes online & incompatibilities with vista sound the

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Ms fined 1.5 gig for patent suit

          alarm bells.
          Norton Goes Online

          FEBRUARY 26, 2007 | Symantec today rolled out a combination security and online backup service aimed at preventing identity theft and the compromise of other personal data for consumers.

          The service includes antivirus, anti-spyware, anti-phishing, two-way firewall, and behavior-based malware detection.

          “Most importantly, this [rollout] has all of the transaction security technology,” says Roland Trolup, Symantec’s vice president of consumer products. “The behavior-based protection system defends against crimeware to detect anything that will steal your identity, credit cards, and passwords,” such as keyloggers.

          The service is aimed at users who want an all-in-one security solution that does most of the work in the background, and with minimal user interaction. Norton 360 also tunes PC performance by diagnosing and fixing any related problems.

          Putting all your eggs in one security basket may be convenient, but it can also be risky, some experts say. “Norton 360’s all-encompassing approach to end-user security appears to be a good thing at first, but further inspection will reveal this to be a bad idea. Diversity is a great form of security, and relying on all of your security from one vendor opens you up to problems,” says David Maynor, CTO of Errata Security.

          “Symantec, just like every other AV vendor, has had problems in their software in the past. When you are 100 percent reliant on them for security, how can you be certain they won’t have more problems in the future?”

          Norton 360 uses Symantec Online Network for Advanced Response (SONAR) technology for behavior-based malware detection to spot new threats in real-time, and the service also removes rootkits in the kernel.

          The new software-as-a-service also performs Web authentication to protect against man-in-the-middle attacks, Symantec’s Trolup says, and performs vulnerability assessments to ensure strong passwords and to detect vulnerabilities.

          “It checks for browser vulnerabilities, misdirected addresses, too… And it makes sure the computer is configured properly,” he says.

          For backup, it comes with a two-Gbyte, automated online store. “Over one half of consumers don’t do backups, and one of the beliefs is it’s too difficult… This automatically does backups for them, so it’s simpler,” Trolup says. Symantec offers additional storage, too, at $29.99 for 5 Gbytes; $49.99 for 10 Gbytes; and $69.99 for 25 Gbytes.

          Norton 360 runs with Windows XP and the 32-bit version of Vista. But some of the security features in Norton 360 won’t work out of the box with the 64-bit version of Windows Vista, Trolup says, due to Microsoft’s PatchGuard.

          “Much of the new behavior-based malware detection against crimeware, screenscrapers, and keyloggers is disabled on the 64-bit version,” he says. “The net effect is it’s less secure. In fairness, it will give us mechanisms as early as Service Pack 1 to turn those back on.”
          well guys i was right ms has opened a can of worms.
          ta mick cheers!

        • #2509582

          apple gives vista the big flick

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to norton goes online & incompatibilities with vista sound the

          PC Makers’ Changing Faces, Apple’s Coming ‘Bypass Vista’ Campaign
          Print Version
          E-Mail Article
          Digg It
          Reprints
          By Rob Enderle
          TechNewsWorld
          02/26/07 4:00 AM PT

          The last time I saw an effort to displace the PC with Macs in business fail, the cause was the lack of Exchange compatibility. If this is fixed, we could see Macs actually move in business again. Leopard and its surrounding applications have been focused almost specifically to take Vista out at the knees, and I don’t think we’ve seen either Microsoft or Apple with this kind of focused effort on the other — ever.

          there is always the option.
          ta guys
          mick

        • #2535816

          the next op system release date announced

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to apple gives vista the big flick

          Vista replacement scheduled for 2009
          Microsoft preparing next version of Windows

          Tom Sanders in California, vnunet.com 13 Feb 2007

          ADVERTISEMENT
          Microsoft is preparing to launch the next generation of its Windows operating system by 2009.

          Ben Fathi, corporate vice president of development at Microsoft, said at the RSA Security conference in San Francisco last week that the next Windows could take two and a half years to build, putting the final release at the end of 2009.

          The launch could put Microsoft back on a release schedule that would see a major operating system launch every other year.

          The company previously released new operating systems on a biennial basis, but took more than five years to develop Windows Vista.

          Vista was delayed in part because Microsoft pulled engineering resources off the project to work on Windows XP Service Pack 2, an update that overhauled the operating system’s security after a slew of attacks against the software.

          Fathi suggested that the next version of Windows would contain some of the features that the company stripped from Windows Vista.

          Microsoft pulled improvements including a new file system dubbed WinFS, the UEFI Bios replacement and a set of advanced security features from Vista to prevent further product delays.

          The company is planning to add support for UEFI through a future update. Instead of implementing its new WinFS file system in its desktop operating system, Microsoft plans to integrate pieces of the technology into the SQL Server database, ActiveX Data Objects and other Microsoft products.

          Microsoft has not spoken recently about what is left of its Next Generation Secure Computing Base strategy, which envisioned a bolted down, compartmentalised security structure that would automatically contain attacks.

          Kevin Kutz, director of the Windows Client at Microsoft, said in an emailed statement that the company is not yet ready to provide guidance about the next Windows version.

          Microsoft has scheduled a Professional Developer Conference in Los Angeles this Autumn.

          The events for software developers occur only in years when Microsoft feels it has something new to talk about, and typically cover upcoming Windows versions.

        • #2509580

          partners report heaps of problems with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to norton goes online & incompatibilities with vista sound the

          Partners report 10 annoying Vista problems as conflicts dampen debut
          By Paula Rooney, CRN 19 February 2007 09:20 AEST Platforms & Applications

          Vista users facing a higher than usual number of conflicts.

          Partners are annoyed by the abundance of software and hardware incompatibilities surfacing as Windows Vista is deployed to more early adopters.

          The software giant launched Vista and a companion update called Windows Vista Application Compatibility Update to the market on January 30.

          That update, KB929427, handles some of the more problematic application incompatibilities, but the nightmare is far from over, partners say.

          It’s typical for these conflicts to appear shortly after an operating system is released. The big problem with Vista is not only the number of incompatibilities with existing applications but also the lack of drivers for critical hardware components and hardware peripherals, partners say.

          One partner said he is surprised by the lack of Vista drivers available for basic hardware components that keep a PC running.

          “Customers upgrading Vista in place may find getting support for existing hardware very challenging,” said Phil Aldrich, North American Microsoft Practice Manager for Dimension Data North America, a US$3.1 billion solution provider.

          “Tons of vendors haven’t done Vista drivers and that’s left a big hole in support. I can understand when it comes to printers and scanners, but when we’re talking about hard drives, chipset controllers and video cards, things that run the PC, it’s surprising,” he said. “It’s not just peripherals but primary component manufacturers aren’t ready, and that unusual compared to the previous releases of Windows.”

          According to various solution providers contacted by CRN, here are the 10 biggest problems faced by early adopters of Vista out of the gate:

          1. Lack of available drivers from ISVs causing application conflicts;

          2. Lack of available drivers for existing and new peripherals and hardware components;

          3. Buggy drivers;

          4. New security feature often flags existing applications as suspicious and interrupts service;

          5. Few applications aside from Vista and Office 2007 take advantage of user account control;

          6. Customers are confused by Office 2007’s ribbon-like user interface;

          7. The OS automatically recommends which Vista versions is best for each PCs configuration. This will cause small businesses to download different versions of Vista;

          8. Benefits of Vista and Office 2007 running together are not obvious. Partners and IT staff need training for maximum ROI;

          9. Deployment isn’t easy. Partners should use either Business Desktop Deployment tool, “lite” BDD no-charge tool or other tools;

          10. Hardware doesn’t run Windows Vista well.

          Some speculate hardware and software manufacturers have invested little in updating their current products because they expect most customers will buy a new and associated products to run Vista.

          Aldrich maintains, however, that many installed PCs are properly equipped to handle Vista and Office 2007 and the idea that customers must buy new PCs is a myth.

          Partners and IT pros are also facing problems with peripherals.

          “There’s not enough drivers out there. Peripherals manufacturers are not all up to speed with Vista, so be careful what you buy,” said Anthony Rodio, chief marketing officer at Supportsoft, a Redwood City, Calif., partner that provides helpdesk support for Windows Vista to enterprises and consumers. “People want to use the functionality in Vista and there are some multimedia, video and sound devices that support Vista, but many peripherals have to catch up.”

          He noted, for example, that Microsoft’s own recently released Zune is not Vista compatible. And he added that one of his technicians recently bought an up-to-date webcam for Windows Vista and it didn’t work.

          The lack of available Vista drivers for existing software applications is a nightmare, partners say. They don’t understand why Microsoft and its ISVs have dragged their feet for so long in developing drivers for existing applications.

          The Windows Vista Application Compatibility Update is a package of updates released on January 30 that fixes application compatibility issues with applications like Adobe Photoshop, AVG AntiSpyware, Google Desktop 4 and Roxio Easy Media Creator 7.,5.

          But that Vista patch introduced problems with another version of Roxio one partner is using. He reported it to Microsoft but it hasn’t been resolved yet.

          “So many things just don’t work and won’t ever work and that’s the problem,” said Brian Bergin, president of Terabyte Computer, Boone, N.C. “Smartphones, fingerprint scanners, video drivers and both ATI and nVidia’s cards are questionable at best, not to mention that many business applications don’t work. Microsoft did such a horrible job of working with vendors on legacy XP-Windows 2000 application-hardware compatibility that everything is up in the air.”

          One of the beauties of Vista is the added security, but in order to use it, you must have updated hardware and drivers for applications,” said Aldrich. “And none of the large ISVs have done it.”

          New security features in Vista are compounding the incompatibility issues, Supportsoft’s Rodio said.

          “Windows security is nice, but it may interrupt some existing applications you are running, like a travel service or something that Microsoft flags as spyware and interrupts,” Rodio added. “It will likely disrupt stuff you’ve done in the past.”

          Incompatibilities dominate the list of most common complaints registered against Windows Vista since it shipped on January 30, say several partners who support consumers and SMB and enterprise customers.

          Many ISVs have pledged to release Vista drivers in the second half of 2007 but partners should expect a flood of support calls for customers who deploy this year, experts say.

          Paul DeGroot, an analyst with Directions on Microsoft, a newsletter in Kirkland, Wash., said it’s not surprising to him that hardware manufacturers are not investing in new Vista drivers for older hardware.

          Although some maintain that Vista runs happily on a Pentium 4 with at least 512 megabytes of RAM, he and others expect most customers will migrate to Vista through new PC purchases.

          “I’m guessing that most of the hardware manufacturers will initially ship drivers for Vista only for new products that they’re shipping about now because there wasn’t demand in the marketplace for Vista drivers. In addition, Vista will be heavily related to OEM sales, and the OEMs may be selling compatible accessories with new PCs, so the aftermarket business will see less Vista-specific traffic.
          Evidence speaks for itself with the likes of michael herid snr singing vistas praises
          regardless ms has nothing to worry about.Ms is not fixing the problems quickly enough has only itself to blame.
          ta guys mick

        • #2509577

          is linux the choice for business eh??

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to partners report heaps of problems with vista

          FRANKLY SPEAKING

          Is The Penguin Listening?

          By Frank J. Ohlhorst, CRN Tech
          12:00 AM EST Mon. Feb. 26, 2007
          Have you seen Apple Computer’s latest Macintosh commercial? It’s the one where the Mac guy and the PC guy are trying to have a conversation, but Windows Vista’s user-account control guy gets in the way by asking “allow or deny?” for every exchange.

          FRANK J. OHLHORST
          Can be reached via e-mail at fohlhorst@cmp.com.
          While that may be a humorous oversimplification of how security works with Vista, it does drive home a point: Vista does put a great deal of burden on the end user to decide if something is safe or not. Of course, Apple’s answer is to buy a Mac and avoid all of that hassle.

          Well, there is another alternative: It’s called Linux. If you’re looking to upgrade your customers’ OSes, now is the time to consider Linux as a viable option. What is really needed is a commercial Linux marketing campaign. I can picture it now:

          The Mac guy, the PC guy and a penguin are all standing around having a conversation. The Mac guy, of course, would be pointing out the flaws of Vista, but there would be a twist, the Penguin would be asking, “Why do I have to buy a new computer to avoid all of those Vista problems?” And then the Penguin would jump on the PC guy’s shoulder and throw snowballs at the Mac guy. Perhaps the Mac guy would wander off muttering something like, “Those damn inexpensive alternatives!”

          OK, now that I have had my fun with the idea, let’s talk about the reality here. Businesses will be faced with a choice in the near future: What operating system should they run? For most, just switching to a Mac will be not possible, while for many the cost of upgrading to Vista may be prohibitive. And for others, doing nothing is not an option.

          Simply put, solution providers willing to discard preconceived notions and target those must-do-something (for security, compliance or performance reasons) customers can make a convincing argument for the Linux desktop and perhaps reap some income, while solving many of their customer’s problems.

          Commercial Linux vendors need to pay attention. The year 2007 very likely will become the year of change on the desktop thanks to Vista and the next generation of the Mac OS, and if the commercial Linux vendors don’t seize the day, the future may very well become bleak for Linux on the desktop.

          Hopefully, Novell (SUSE), Xandros, Mandriver and the other commercial Linux vendors out there will actively dive into the channel and build relationships with system builders to make the Linux desktop an obvious choice.

          ta guys mick

        • #2509574

          more problems galore with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to is linux the choice for business eh??

          February 26th, 2007
          Problems arise with Vista?s validation
          Posted by Ed Bott @ 6:41 am

          Categories: Windows Vista, WGA

          In Focus ? See more posts on: WGA, Vista
          +5
          9 votes
          Worthwhile? Last year, when Microsoft announced a new anti-piracy infrastructure for Windows Vista, I was skeptical. Here’s what I wrote at the time:

          What’s most distressing about the SPP announcement is Microsoft’s continued insistence that its anti-piracy tools are nearly perfect and that innocent victims never suffer from errors in their code. ? Microsoft insists that “most customers should never be affected by having a non-genuine installation.” That reassurance would be a lot more comforting if there wasn’t already a solid base of failures in its current WGA program.

          And now, only weeks after the retail launch of Windows Vista, early Vista adopters are experiencing a wave of validation and activation problems.

          I first heard about this a couple weeks ago, in a post that recounted one user’s experience with a new game called 9Dragons:

          I signup for the game and download the client, install without a hitch.

          I am playing the game when all of a sudden I get popped out of my game back to desktop with a message that my copy of Vista isn?t Genuine.

          [?]

          I tried to revalidate my copy of Vista only to be told that it was still not genuine. When I uninstalled the game and tried guess what it worked.

          As it turns out, that was just the tip of the iceberg. A quick scan of Microsoft’s Windows Vista Validation Issues forum turns up many similar examples, with users who paid for a retail key being told that their copy is “no longer genuine” and that the key is in use.

          The underlying issues were identified by Microsoft a few days after Vista’s release to manufacturing last November and publicly disclosed in this post on the Windows Vista Validation Issues forum:

          There are several threads in this forum that refer to Error 0xc004d401 causing non-genuine status or preventing activation. In those threads, we have discussed 3 applications that have been identified as conflicting with Vista software licensing technology (which causes the issue).

          The offenders included PC Tools Spyware Doctor (updating to the most recent version fixes the issue), Trend Micro Internet Security and PC-Cillin Anti-Virus (the issue goes away if you install version 14.56 or later), and nProtect GameGuard.

          That last product is the killer, as it turns out. This anti-cheating package used in a variety of online games has previously been called out for behavior that resembles a rootkit. The program’s action apparently triggers the anti-tampering features in Windows Vista. As I wrote last fall, that’s not good news for the user:

          The most chilling part of SPP is its new code to detect tampering. As Lindeman explained to me, “If the Software Protection Platform determines that the core binaries of your system have been hacked with, you will get a notification that operating system has been tampered with. Reinstallation is the remedy.” And the clock starts ticking immediately. When an anti-tampering warning first appears, you have three days to reinstall or otherwise fix your copy of Windows Vista or shift into reduced functionality mode.

          Unfortunately, getting a fix for the GameGuard problem isn’t as easy as it should be. According to Microsoft, each game manufacturer has to acquire the fix and then integrate the new version of GameGuard into their product.

          On January 30, the date of Vista’s retail release, Microsoft published Knowledge Base article 931573, You may be prompted to activate Windows Vista on a computer on which Windows Vista activation was not previously required, which lists the following symptoms:

          You may be prompted to activate Windows Vista on a computer on which Windows Vista activation was not previously required. Although this problem rarely occurs, it may occur during typical use of a Windows Vista-based computer. For example, this problem may occur under one or more of the following conditions:

          You install a device driver.
          You install a program.
          You run a new program.
          You remove a program.
          The article goes on to report the reasons that the problem occurs:

          This problem may occur because a specific system setting is removed when a program runs with administrative credentials. The removal of this system setting may cause a BIOS validation check to fail. The BIOS validation check is part of the system activation process. Therefore, you may be prompted to activate Windows Vista, even though the system did not previously require activation. For example, this problem is known to occur when you use Intuit QuickBooks 2007. However, this problem may also infrequently occur when you install other programs or device drivers.

          Give Microsoft credit for taking ownership of the problem and not throwing the blame back on third-party developers. The KB article contains this unequivocal statement:

          This problem does not occur because of an issue in the installed program or device driver. This problem is caused by a system problem in Windows Vista.

          At this point, there’s no telling how many people are affected by the issue. In some cases, at least, the only fix is to reactivate over the phone, a process that involves convincing a support tech that your installation is legitimate, reading a 50-character product ID over the phone, and then typing in a matching 50-character ID
          Well guys i did say there were huge problems with vista did’nt i.

          ta mick

        • #2532760

          linux is an alternative that should not be overlooked

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to is linux the choice for business eh??

          it is a viable alternative to what’s available.
          mick

    • #2510732

      speed tests show that windows vista 64 bit Vs 32 bit vista

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      is only 10.9 % faster.
      Windows Vista Benchmark: 64-Bit Faster Than 32-Bit
      December 6, 2006

      The 64-bit version of Windows Vista operating system is for about 10.9 percent faster than 32-bit Vista, according to the GeekBench benchmark for 32-bit and 64-bit Windows platforms.

      Both 32-bit and 64-bit tests were done on a budget AMD Sempron 2800+ powered desktop PC, featuring Asus K8U-X motherboard with 512MB of main memory.

      The 32-bit Windows Vista Ultimate achived 99.8 GeekBench points, while the 64-bit version of the same OS gained 110.7 points. The higher number of points is better. This Windows Vista 32-bit vs 64-bit benchmark consist of measuring integer performance, floating point performance, as same as memory and stream performance.

      Windows Vista Ultimate 32-Bit 64-Bit
      Integer
      Performance
      Emulate 6502

      single-threaded scalar 47 45.8

      multi-threaded scalar 46.7 62.1

      Blowfish

      single-threaded scalar 106.5 118.7

      multi-threaded scalar 106.5 119.6

      bzip2 Compress

      single-threaded scalar 160.1 172.3

      multi-threaded scalar 157.6 95.3

      bzip2 Decompress

      single-threaded scalar 129.1 139.4

      multi-threaded scalar 133.6 143.9
      Floating
      Point Performance

      Mandelbrot

      single-threaded scalar 108 77.6

      multi-threaded scalar 108.1 98

      Dot Product

      single-threaded scalar 50.9 150.9

      multi-threaded scalar 50.6 150.2

      single-threaded vector 124.4 196.5

      multi-threaded vector 122.2 196.6

      JPEG Compress

      single-threaded scalar 104.8 103.9

      multi-threaded scalar 105 103.1

      JPEG Decompress

      single-threaded scalar 97.8 115.3

      multi-threaded scalar 97.9 114.4
      Memory
      Performance

      Read Sequential

      single-threaded scalar 139.2 137.6

      multi-threaded scalar 143.3 142.7

      Write Sequential

      single-threaded scalar 110 109.9

      multi-threaded scalar 116 115.1

      Stdlib Allocate

      single-threaded scalar 129.2 92.2

      multi-threaded scalar 126.9 92

      Stdlib Write

      single-threaded scalar 40.9 88.2

      multi-threaded scalar 42.1 96.8

      Stdlib Copy

      single-threaded scalar 59.7 100.3

      multi-threaded scalar 66.4 105.5
      Stream
      Performance

      Stream Copy

      single-threaded scalar 103.9 106.2

      multi-threaded scalar 104.5 106.2

      single-threaded vector 97.3 96.3

      multi-threaded vector 95.7 95.1

      Stream Scale

      single-threaded scalar 118 118.3

      multi-threaded scalar 115.3 116.1

      single-threaded vector 97.2 98.9

      multi-threaded vector 95.6 97.1

      Stream Add

      single-threaded scalar 95.1 97.8

      multi-threaded scalar 91.5 93.3

      single-threaded vector 107.4 108

      multi-threaded vector 103.4 103.7

      Stream Triad

      single-threaded scalar 84.1 90.2

      multi-threaded scalar 81.3 87

      single-threaded vector 86.4 87

      multi-threaded vector 83.1 83.2

      OVERALL: 99.8 110.7
      So why would anyone bother is the 64 $ question!!!
      ta guys mick

      • #2510731

        64 bit is too early

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to speed tests show that windows vista 64 bit Vs 32 bit vista

        Chip makers AMD and Intel think the 64-bit version of Microsoft Windows Vista operating system will not take over the enthusiast market in 2007, The Inquirer reports.

        ?Without an exception, they all think it?s too early and the drivers won?t be that polished for 64 bit either. AMD and Intel have CPUs which can support 64 operating systems but the drivers are still lame, unpolished and slow compared with 32 bit,? the report says.

        Intel also said that Vista 32 is fine as it will address 2.75 or 3.25GB from the 4GB of memory, if provided.

        thanks guys, cheers mick

        • #2510729

          cnet reviews vista ultimate

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to 64 bit is too early

          CNET editors’ review
          Very good
          7.8
          out of 10The good: Windows Vista Ultimate does improve some features within Windows XP; fewer system crashes than Windows XP; Windows Vista offers better built-in support options.

          The bad: Windows Vista Ultimate does not put Search on the desktop (it’s buried within applications, within the Start Menu); optimized only for the Microsoft Windows ecosystem (for example, RSS feeds from Internet Explorer 7 get preferential treatment); there’s simply too much and not all of it is implemented properly; no new software yet written exclusively for Windows Vista; and there are too many editions of Windows Vista.

          The bottom line: Windows Vista is essentially warmed-over Windows XP. If you’re currently happy with Windows XP SP2, we see no compelling reason to upgrade. On the other hand, if you need a new computer right now, Windows Vista is stable enough for everyday use.

          Read editors’ review below
          Average user rating from 205 users
          Average
          5.5
          out of 10
          I still say why bother there are other factors that cnet has left out.
          ta mick

        • #2497411

          will ms listen to reports & fix the problems first hand

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to cnet reviews vista ultimate

          Microsoft Vista team reads iTWire and responds to Vista problems
          By Alex Zaharov-Reutt
          Thursday, 07 December 2006
          In my recent article ?More problems with Vista final release?? I detailed a couple of the problems I?ve been having with the final ?RTM? business version of Vista that was released on November 30. A ?Software Design Engineer in Test? from the Windows Experience Team at Microsoft has been in touch to get more details!Have they fixed these preoblems NO !

          Related stories
          Virtualization software Parallels updated at last
          F5 claims Vista SSL VPN first
          Accounting package supports Vista and Intel Macs
          Attacker mocks victims, says Symantec
          Security firm warns of first Office 2007 vulnerability
          It?s always nice to know that not only are ?you? reading this article, but that the companies we write about are reading too. In my recent article on Vista problems I talked of intermittent crashes when hibernating or sleeping, and a problem where the colours in Vista look washed out when resuming from a successful hibernation.

          While the crashing after hibernation or sleeping has not, as yet, returned, the dreaded colour scheme washout is still appearing, with my own quick fix of changing the colour scheme to 16-bit ?Vista Basic? and back to 32-bit ?Vista Aero? still working for me to get the colours back to normal, with the colours looking darker again.

          I?ve just sent off an email to Microsoft?s Vista Software Design Engineer after he requested more information on the configuration of my computer. He asked for the info ?so we can try to reproduce the problem in-house and root cause the issue?.

          Getting this kind of direct request for info from what would appear to be exactly the right person (or one of the right people) at Microsoft is very cool, and is certainly much better and quicker than contacting Microsoft Australia people who would probably have had to refer me to their US Vista counterparts anyway.

          I?ve only just sent the email before posting this article, so I?m not expecting an instant response. Indeed, they may ask me to provide even more information as they try to replicate the problem and work on a fix of some kind.

          As soon as we get an update, we?ll let you know. Until then, thank goodness there?s a workaround! I?ll also be updating Microsoft if I experience any more hibernation/sleep ?crash? issues.

          Update: I received another response back with instructions on how to save a file in Vista that will give Microsoft a more detailed look at what’s happening in the system, and a request to please send the file over so they can continue their investigation.

          Until then, I?m going to happily keep on using Vista. Yes, Mac fans have just told me to ?Get a Mac?? but as a tablet PC fan that isn?t an option. Maybe if Apple release that rumoured Apple Tablet after all with a dual-core chip inside I could be tempted.

          I did want to purchase a MacBook to run OS X and Vista at the same time, but for now I?ll wait ? there?s still a lot of great work going on in the OS X and XP/Vista space with the Parallels software and more, and waiting a bit longer is actually a good thing as Parallels keep on improving, with the latest version allowing you to place Windows program icons on the OS X desktop and running Windows software in its own screen.

          It?s the best implementation of Mac OS X running Windows software while still in OS X, but if the rumours of OS X 10.5 ? Apple?s upcoming operating system ? to be able to ?natively? run Windows alongside OS X are true, the Parallels people might be quaking at the thought. Unless Apple buys them up and uses their solution to offer the same capability from an OS level.

          So it?s all a waiting game. Waiting for Jan 30 for the consumer Vista launch, waiting for an email response from Microsoft, waiting for the Zune to be sold down under and waiting for a better MacBook from Apple.

          What I’d most like to see happen now, beyond getting every manufacturer in the world to get a move on with the latest Vista drivers for all of their hardware? Getting this colours issue fixed in Vista, the operating system I (mostly) happily use all day, every day. It’s only a little thing, consdering there is a workaround. But it’s always the little things that matter, isn’t it?

          After that, I’d simply like to see Microsoft work as hard as they can to get all of their partners focused on getting all software and hardware to work seamlessly and flawlessly with Vista. Now that Vista is out, there can be no more excuses!
          Goodness gracious me are people finding out
          about these problems now when i have pointed them out months ago.
          it’s now 28 february & ms has still not resolved much of the issues.

          ta mick

        • #2509999

          ishould know i’ve got a phd in it

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to will ms listen to reports & fix the problems first hand

          Windows Vista Media Center MCMLookalike project now has downloadable source code and markup
          I previoulsly posted an introduction to a new open source Media Center Markup Language (MCML) user interface widget library started by Steven Harding that is called MCMLookalike. I found via Niall’s blog and Ian’s blog that the first downloadable code package is now available on the SourceForge project site for MCMLookalike at https://sourceforge.net/projects/mcmlookalike.

          I am really excited to see an effort like this getting started in the community. One of the things that we did not have enough time for when creating the Windows Media Center SDK for Windows Vista was building up a library of reusable controls for developers to use in their applications. The MCMLookalike project aims to fill this type of void so that developers can focus more of their effort on fine-tuning the UI and building really nice functional experiences instead of needing to implement a set of building block UI controls before they can get started with their unique experiences.

          If you haven’t already, I encourage you to download the MCMLookalike project and take a look at the source code and markup (and contribute back new code/markup when you’re able to). The project includes not only MCML files, but also a Visual Studio 2005 project that appears to have been created with the project template we included in the Media Center SDK (and it is cool to see that this template is useful!). The project also includes an installer template for a Visual Studio setup/deployment project so you can build an MSI and install this application to try it out within Windows Vista Media Center as well.

          A couple of notes about the MCMLookalike download after I spent a few minutes looking at it:

          I strongly encourage you to use WiX v3.0 and the Votive Visual Studio 2005 add-in instead of the Visual Studio setup/deployment project to build installers for Windows Vista Media Center applications if possible. I’ve created updated sample setup projects for the Q podcast sample application (here) and the Z sample application (here) that are a part of the Media Center SDK. I understand that there is a learning curve for WiX that is a bit steeper than the built-in Visual Studio setup projects, but hopefully these samples and the accompanying blog posts can help get you past most of that.
          The app.xml file included in the project doesn’t contain the correct assembly strong name, so you cannot use that file with RegisterMceApp to register this application – registration will succeed but the application will crash when you try to launch it from within Media Center. The assembly version number is incorrect and the strong name key value is missing. If you’re like me and tend to try to prototype your application during development and don’t want to uninstall/reinstall an MSI every time, you can fix the app.xml and register the application that way instead of using the MSI (but only do this during development – shipping applications should be delivered as MSI-based installers).
          ta dr mick

        • #2509998

          Windows VIsta Source Code Management

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to will ms listen to reports & fix the problems first hand

          Windows Vista source code management

          Several people ?in the know? wrote about the difficulties in the Microsoft Vista code development. Starting with a post of Joel Spolsky on the strange solution of the nine different shut down-options in Windows Vista, continuing with a post of the developer in charge of these options, about how he worked a year on this feature, without any real progress on it, followed by people who criticized the complicated source code branching model, Microsoft uses. Joel Spolsky wrote the latest article in the discussion, noting that Microsoft?s model isn?t bad at all, it?s the only way that works for a product that?s THAT complicated.

          Well, I don?t agree with him 100%. He notes that Microsoft works on an own source code software, which they adopt to their needs, that is incredibly fast and everything. But Linux? Yes, it?s Linux that is the competitor to Microsoft in this area, and I don?t want to be a fan boy now, but there?s something very unique about Linux?

          It?s created of thousands of small projects, each running separately in its own source control systems, being closed from each other, communicating just over well-documented APIs. That?s the way to go. Look at Debian – as much as I don?t like how the project is influenced by radical developers that don?t help the project at all, they manage a 300-million-code-lines-project, with thousands of packages, dependencies, etc. without a big number of paid maintainers. Windows Vista on the other hand is said to consist of ?just? more than 50 million LoC, but is inflexible and slow, and makes it difficult to maintain/develop.

          The way to go for software development, especially with big projects, is the following:

          Separate the project in small parts.
          Separate anything that could be used by any other application and out-source it to a library with a documented API.
          If you want to implement a user interface for a feature, ask for the API and then stop to care about the developers that develop the feature and start designing your UI. This UI should then just access the API which should have been completed long before.
          Compile small libraries without the need of using many other APIs.
          Define the API in the beginning, and make changes as rarely as possible.
          There is some redundancy in this list now, but it?s extremely important to have everything separated. Then, you can let a team decide, how many options to shut down the computers should exist. Then, you let the kernel developers develop them. Then, you let the shut-down-UI-design-team design 10 prototypes of possible UI. Then, you let the start menu-UI-design-lead decide which is the best to fit together with the other parts of the UI of the start menu. Then, you let the general-UI-lead decide if everything?s ok.

          This is still a complicated process, and simply not having that many people to decide over a feature/UI/etc. would be even better, it would be more practical for companies like Microsoft.

          Of course, every team should have it?s own branches, of course not everybody should work on a central source control system. But, dedicating teams to certain libraries, and deciding in the beginning which functionality should be there, then developing the functionality, then developing the UI, would be much better than what it?s currently (according to the post of the Microsoft developer that used to work on that team), where everything?s done at the same time:

          The UI team creates a prototype.
          The kernel team refuses it, recommends something else.
          Some other team refuses that, recommends something else.
          ? (20 times the same thing)
          Some strange compromise which should make everybody at least not unhappy, is chosen.
          The point is: Make Windows Vienna (the code-name of the next-generation Windows) more modular. Devote a year?s time in seperating the components, defining internal APIs, try to remove dependencies, etc. In this time, don?t create new features or anything. Just make the development easier. After that, slowly start to develop features again. Define which libraries need to be created, and find out how they can be developed to be dependent on as little other libraries as possible.

          But in the end, I doubt that Microsoft will and *can* do that. Working just on making a product more modular doesn?t generate any money. It just makes the development process easier. We?ll see if that?s enough for the executives to do ?the right thing?.

          Well one can only hope the new windows system vienna is a step in the right direction.
          ta mick

        • #2509995

          One dimensional root finding algorithms

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Windows VIsta Source Code Management

          Introduction
          This article talks about root finding in one dimension. It discusses about some algorithms than can solve the problem f(x) = 0, where f is a given function and x is a real variable.

          Background
          Many algorithms can be found on the Internet, with their source code. My job here was just to translate them in C#, sometimes modify them a bit, and essentially embed them into a convenient framework, a la, C++ STL.

          About root finding
          How can a computer solve an equation like f(x)=0? As you can imagine, root finding algorithms don’t “solve” the equation. They “only” provide (in the best case) one approximated solution, using iterative methods. Starting with a given interval, that is assumed to contain the solution, the algorihtm reduces at least by 2 (using the Bisection method) the length of the interval at each iteration. It stops when the length of the remaining interval reaches a pre-defined value (called Accuracy).

          Basically, this works fine. But it can happen that the Accuracy can not be reached. To prevent the algorithm from iterating infinitely, you should prefer to stop it when the number of iterations reaches a certain value (called Iterations).

          Now, you’re almost ready to use the code. But you should be interested with a special improvement. Suppose you don’t know the function f you’re working with. How can you determine the range the algorithm has to start with? In this case, you have to use the OutwardBracketing. Given a growing factor, the algorithm will iteratively grow the initial range until the function f changes its sign between the bounds of the range. Note that because f is supposed to be continuous, this ensures that a solution lies in the grown interval.

          Using the code
          Using the library is very easy. The library provides six methods, among the most usual ones. Each one is embedded in a class, which itself inherited from the abstract RootFinder class, like it is shown on the picture:

          The most difficult of your job is to choose the good method. This will be discussed later. Suppose you want to solve the equation f(x) = 0, where f is defined like this:

          private double f (double x) {
          return 3x*x-1;
          }
          The two solutions lie in the interval [-1;+1]. Suppose you want the positive root. Don’t forget that the algorithms provide a unique solution. If you choose a too big starting interval, the algorithm may go wrong, or give you the solution you don’t want. So, you have to start with an interval like [0;1].

          private double FindRoot (double x) {

          // Create the root finder object, that contains the algorithm
          BisectionRootFinder finder =
          new BisectionRootFinder (new UnaryFunction(f));

          // Define the accuracy you want for the root
          finder.Accuracy = 1.0E-04;

          // Prevent overflow
          finder.Iterations = 30;

          // Compute without bracketing outward
          double root = finder.Solve(0.0,1.0,false);

          return root;
          }
          The root r of f on [0;1] is r = sqrt(1/3). The Accuracy ensures you that the approximated root r’ provided by the algorithm will verify :

          Abs(r’-r) < 10e-4 (Accuracy) except if the algorithm reaches the maximum of iterations you passed it (30 here). Which algorithm may you choose? If you have an expression of the derivative function df of f, use the Newton-Raphson method. It's stable and converges quickly. If you don't have an expression df of the derivative function of f, the answer is not easy. It depends, in fact, on what is the most important for you. The Bisection method will always lead you to a good approximation, but not as quickly as the others. The three methods False Position, Secant, and Ridder converge more quickly, but can fail in some cases. The Brent method seems so to be the most efficient method. Points of Interest The code source of the algorithms can be found everywhere on the Internet. Building a framework for one dimension functions is not easy in C#. In C++, you can create functors and arithmetic operators on template classes. In C#, you cannot. Okay, handling pointers on functions is very easy with delegates, but that's all. So, how can we build an efficient framework for functions in C#? To be honest, I think it is impossible. That's the reason why I don't provide such a framework. Creating an abstract class Function and derive it as needed is not necessarily the solution. What I propose in the downloadable package is a static class, named Functions that can help you with handling the functions: addition, substraction, and composition. Have fun mick

        • #2509992

          A dystopian future – looking beyond Windows Vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to One dimensional root finding algorithms

          A dystopian future – looking beyond Windows Vista
          by Sander Marechal
          If the thought of Microsoft Vista’s DRM restrictions, restrictive EULA, version confusion and user lock-in has you scared then you definitely do not want to know what the lads from Redmond have in store for the next version. If this patent application, covered by Groklaw here, is anything to go by then the next version of Windows, Vista+1 is really going to give you nightmares.

          In simple terms it’s a modular OS, much like Linux, whereby every package will have to be bought separately, has been heavily DRM’ed and will be licensed under different licensing terms. And I’m not talking about applications here but about things that people see as core OS functionality, such as basic networking, internet access, running multiple instances of one application, using an USB device (licensed on a per-device basis), etcetera. You’ll even have to pay separately just to be able to install third-party applications or to use the new RAM you bought.
          Well we can only hope!
          Ta mick

        • #2531979

          you can find heaps of answers on the net

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to One dimensional root finding algorithms

          just using algorithms!particularly problems with vista.

    • #2535829

      in reply

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      yes it is

    • #2516732

      vista is a DUD !

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Windows Vista’s 90-Day Report Card

      Microsoft’s new operating system vista
      By J. Nicholas Hoover
      InformationWeek

      March 10, 2007 12:05 AM (From the March 12, 2007 issue)

      Ninety days after its release to business customers, Windows Vista has cleared the first hurdle–serious security flaws,not yet so far. But it has stumbled badly on the second–user acceptance–as two big government agencies shun Microsoft’s new operating system for other reasons.

      Only two weeks after the consumer release of Vista on Jan. 31, CEO Steve Ballmer advised Wall Street to cool its expectations. “We’re driving it hard,” Ballmer said in a Feb. 15 presentation to financial analysts. “But I think some people have gotten a little overexcited.”

      CIO (and pilot) Bowen may ground Microsoft software

      Ballmer’s warning proved prescient. Two weeks later, InformationWeek learned of a memo written by Daniel Mintz, CIO of the U.S. Department of Transportation, that placed “an indefinite moratorium” on upgrades to Vista, citing “no compelling technical or business case for upgrading.”

      About the same time, the Federal Aviation Administration–which is part of the DOT but managed separately–put a freeze on Vista upgrades. CIO David Bowen says he may drop Microsoft’s PC software, Office included, in favor of Linux-based PCs and Google’s new online business applications. Among other problems, Bowen says Lotus Notes didn’t work properly when tested on Vista. “When you consider the incompatibilities and the fact that we haven’t seen much in the way of documented business value, we felt that we needed to do a lot more study,” Bowen says.

      Microsoft can’t take lightly the decision by two major federal customers with a total of 60,000 PC users to sidestep what’s usually a well-worn path to the next Windows operating system. And a successful implementation of Google Apps by a big agency like the FAA would be a cue to CIOs elsewhere to consider that alternative themselves.

      Microsoft is diplomatic about the snubbing. “Every organization has its own process for adopting software,” says Shanen Boettcher, general manager of Windows client product management.

      Hardware and software compatibility are among the concerns voiced by would-be Vista adopters. Parts manufacturer Quality Trailer Products pushed back its Vista deployment plans after experiencing compatibility issues during testing. “We took a good long look at it and figured it would be awhile before we do anything more with it,” VP of IT Carl Weddle says. The company has a few 1980s-era terminal emulators that work fine with XP, but not at all with Vista.

      Application compatibility is a factor at the Transportation Department. A number of applications and utilities in use there aren’t Vista-compatible, according to a memo issued by the DOT’s Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration. They include releases of Aspen, Capri, ISS, and ProVu applications.
      I definitely agree application compatibility & other factors have contributed to vista non acceptance.
      ta mick

      • #2516731

        news that businesses won’t upgrade to vista

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to vista is a DUD !

        There are plenty of other reasons companies are holding back–like having more important things to do. “We really haven’t had time to advance much beyond setting it up and letting our network guys mess with it,” says David Moore, CIO of Spectrum Labs. The medical laboratory network has been tied up with server upgrades and patching systems for the earlier-than-usual shift to daylight-saving time.

        The most likely way for Vista to get onto a business desktop is loaded on a new PC that’s part of a company’s normal equipment upgrade cycle. But even then, some companies are wiping Vista off the machines to maintain consistency in their computing environments. “Even if we get a new PC, we’re putting our XP image on it,” Moore says.

        Still, Windows Vista has begun, or is about to begin, creeping into companies. Engineering company Wright-Pierce will soon bring in new Vista-loaded PCs. However, it won’t replace Windows XP on existing PCs until it sees how users like Vista first.

        Boeing is evaluating Vista for application compatibility and security while assessing the return on investment. “If we determine it meets our business requirements, we could see migration to Vista beginning mid-2008,” says Radha Radhakrishnan, VP of computing and network operations at the aerospace company.

        Microsoft says Vista rollouts are in line with its expectations. Two early indicators–support calls and application and device compatibility–are about where it would have expected, Boettcher says. Microsoft last week couldn’t name any customers that have deployed Vista on more than a few hundred PCs, but a handful, including the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, plan to have Vista on thousands of PCs by year’s end.

        ta mick

        • #2516727

          vista has no wow factor

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to news that businesses won’t upgrade to vista

          there isn’t any.
          ta mick

        • #2516725

          confirmation of a doomed os

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista has no wow factor

          According to MS .But, pure and simple, it grieves us to say, Vista doesn’t stack up as the mighty blockbuster investors and geeks alike supposedly had been panting for.

          A few other factors worth noting: Mr. Ballmer cautioned against anyone out there being “somewhat too bullish.” He was distinctly wary that Vista might trigger a new PC boom. For those who like to argue that sector rallies precede fundamental gains, pray tell what the lack of buoyancy in the stocks of HP (HPQ), Dell (DELL) and Intel (INTC) suggest as to the Vista adaption cycle?

          Abelson goes on to quote from the very skeptical Fred Hickey as to what we should expect from the rest of Tech:

          Fred Hickey, proprietor of the High-Tech Strategist and treasured Roundtable member, had very low expectations for Vista and, as far as he’s concerned, they’ve already been fully met. As is not uncommon with Fred, he put his money where his mouth is, buying put options on Microsoft ahead of the product’s splashy introduction, and has the profits to prove it.

          We chatted with Fred on Friday, and he remains very much of a mind, as he wrote earlier this month in his newsletter, that Vista is “not an epic disaster for Microsoft” because “ultimately, businesses and consumers will resume their regular upgrade patterns and buy PCs that come pre-loaded with Vista.” However, he’s convinced its effect on the “PC food chain” stacks up as another and very much sadder story.

          Spurred in part by a study commissioned by Microsoft that concluded Vista would generate $72 billion in related hardware, software and service revenue, Fred relates, what he calls the PC food chain — distributors, resellers and solutions providers — went wild and hugely overbuilt in preparation for a post-Vista release boom that is clearly not coming.

          The result, sighs Fred, is that through the length and breadth of the industry, from semiconductor companies to electronic retailers, there has been a massive inventory build-up — which, he contends, is a prelude to a disaster. He suspects that the first tremors of real trouble will be felt a few weeks hence, when some dismal earnings forecasts begin to seep out.

          What confounds him and could greatly exacerbate a collapse in techs is that investors continue to be bullish on them despite six long years of underperformance by the sector. Besides Microsoft, his most recent published list of stocks he’s negative on includes Best Buy (BBY), CDW (CDWC), SanDisk (SNDK), Texas Instruments (TXN), Lam Research (LRCX), KLA-Tencor (KLAC), Nvidia (NVDA), Research in Motion (RIMM), Apple (AAPL), Microchip Technology (MCHP), STMicroelectronics (STM), Amazon.com (AMZN), International Rectifier (IRF), Dell (DELL), Novellus Systems (NVLS), Xilinx (XLNX), Motorola (MOT), Applied Materials (AMAT), NetLogic Microsystems (NETL) and Fairchild Semiconductor (FCS).
          Well i have been vindicated
          ta mick

        • #2516722

          why not indeed

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to confirmation of a doomed os

          definitely

        • #2516721

          where is the ostracised ostrich

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to why not indeed

          head in the sand

        • #2516720

          o o

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to where is the ostracised ostrich

          ostracised ostrich head in the sand

        • #2516717

          ostracised ostrich= michael heried snr

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to where is the ostracised ostrich

          why? cause he is one

        • #2516715

          .

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to where is the ostracised ostrich

          v
          i
          c
          t
          o
          r
          y

        • #2596163

          well i have been vindicated by motherboard manufacturers &

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to confirmation of a doomed os

          intel & Amd that Vista is not recommended os only xp.
          Vista is slower by 15 %% to xp.Gaming rendering is slower by 10 times.
          well guys & gals totally vindicated!!!!

    • #2534923

      vista has been pirated

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      It’s official: Pirates crack Vista at last
      4th March 2007 James Bannan Vista
      A genuine crack for Windows Vista has just been released by pirate group Pantheon, which allows a pirated, non-activated installation of Vista (Home Basic/Premium and Ultimate) to be properly activated and made fully-operational.

      Unlike cracks which have been floating around since Vista RTM was released in late November, this crack doesn?t simply get around product activation with beta activation files or timestop cracks – it actually makes use of the activation process. It seems that Microsoft has allowed large OEMs like ASUS to ship their products with a pre-installed version of Vista that doesn?t require product activation ? apparently because end users would find it too inconvenient.

      OEM Emulation
      This version of Vista uses System-Locked Pre-Installation 2.0 (SLP 2.0). It allows the ?Royalty OEMs? to embed specific licensing information into the operating system which Vista can activate without having to go back to Microsoft for verification. The licensing components include the OEM?s hardware-embedded BIOS ACPI_SLIC (which has been signed by Microsoft), an XML certificate file which corresponds to this ACPI_SLIC and a specific OEM product key.

      Pantheon released a bundle which includes the certificate files from ASUS, Dell, HP and Lenovo along with OEM product keys for Vista Home Basic, Home Premium and Ultimate, and an emulator which allows the BIOS ACPI_SLIC driver for any manufacturer to be installed without requiring the system to be physically running that hardware. For example, you can install the ASUS certificate information on any machine, not just an ASUS.

      And yes, the crack most certainly works. You end up with an activated, legitimate copy of Vista which passes all the Windows Genuine Advantage checks.

      The release of this crack does make a bit of a mockery of the whole volume activation process. I was beginning to think the new activation process introduced with Vista might spell the end of easy and large-scale Windows piracy, and if the only way to activate Vista was to have it communicate directly with Microsoft, then that just might have been a possibility. But allowing such a workaround to OEMs just because their users might not like it has introduced a weakness into the system. Pirate groups are well known for exploiting any weakness no matter how small (as evidenced by the cracking of KMS), so once this activation process became known it was only a matter of time.

      As the crack is tied to specific product keys, it remains to be seen whether Microsoft will be able to do anything about shutting out machines activated using this method. But their work will be made much more difficult now that such machines have completely bypassed the online activation process, and are connecting as legitimate copies of Windows.
      well so much for security
      ta mick

    • #2534922

      vista has been piratedbill is thanked for letting of piracy

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Thanks for letting us pirate
      5th February 2007 Nathan Davis Windows
      Piracy: F**k yeah!

      According to Romania’s president, Traian Băsescu, piracy rocks — and he recently thanked Bill Gates for it during a conference.

      Gates was in the country celebrating Microsoft’s new global technical support centre in the nation’s capital, Bucharest.

      Curiously, thanks in a large part to rampant piracy, employees at the new facility are familiarised with the software giant’s wares.

      Romania couldn’t be more proud of this fact.

      “Piracy helped the young generation discover computers. It set off the development of the IT industry in Romania,” flaunted the Romanian president.

      Piracy “helped Romanians improve their creative capacity in the IT industry, which has become famous around the world,” he continued, “Ten years ago, it was an investment in Romania’s friendship with Microsoft and with Bill Gates.”

      Throughout the joint news conference, Gates apparently didn’t utter a word. No doubt he was overwhelmed by the deep sense of involuntary charity.

      “Yarrr! To arms, me lads! Let’s fetch us some Vista spoils,” several people weren’t necessarily overheard shouting in central Bucharest.

      According to ‘experts,’ Reuters says around 70 percent of all software in Romania is pirated.

      Whether a technical support centre will help dilute the whole piracy thing remains to be seen. The waterfront access probably doesn’t help.

      President “where’s me blasted eyepatch” Băsescu and bonafide honorary pirate, Bill Gates.The other option would be open source software, but the piracy-inclined country seemingly gains too much excitement from looting intangible booty.

      Looting with a twist, perhaps, because salespeople currently visit central office buildings in the nation’s capital and pitch said pirated software to potentially loot-hungry companies.

      The sea lubbers over at TalkLikeAPirateDay.com must be prescient, as they foretold an upcoming and likely common phrase in Romania’s new technical support facility.

      It goes something like, “Ye bent my ear with yer lubberly questions WITHOUT tryin a reboot first? Arrr! It’s the plank for you, ye mangy cur… and thank ye for calling Microsoft Tech Support!”

      Microsoft tech support is about to be awesome, at least in Romania.

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      1: In an article some months
      In an article some months ago on the integration of former East European communist countries into the EU, the Economist noted that “Romania just doesn’t get it… they still smoke in meetings with clients and cite official corruption as a competitive advantage…”

      However, that aside, it is interesting to note an official acknowledgment of something the software industry has denied for years (whilst simultaneously grossly inflating the rate of piracy and its impact), namely that piracy has an upside for them in that it introduces significant numbers of people to their software who otherwise would have no access to it.

      But I doubt Bill was unduly concerned, as he would undoubtedly expect Brussels to drag Romania into line on matters of intellectual property as with everything else.

      ta mick

      • #2534921

        well the lid has blown on this one

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to vista has been piratedbill is thanked for letting of piracy

        Vista Upgrade DVD can be tricked into installing as a full install — whoops!
        1st February 2007 Nathan Davis Vista, Windows
        Windows Vista: Crowbar meets the pane.Contrary to Microsoft’s original intention, if you’re stuck without a previous edition of Windows and just want a clean install of Vista — and you are holding but an upgrade to Vista — you can now do just that.

        Yep, Microsoft slipped on this one.

        An option offered by previous upgrade editions of Windows is that Microsoft allowed you a clean install — that is, without having to first install an older version. The installer did, however, check if you owned an older version of Windows.

        The way in which the upgrade CD verified this was to request the aging install CD. Once the installer was satisfied, you popped in the newer Windows CD and all was blissfully peaceful in the land.

        With Vista coming screaming into the world, Microsoft was apparently intent on smashing that serenity. You see, it required that you have an existing Windows install on the system in which you intend to install Vista.

        Don’t have an existing install? According to Microsoft’s Knowledge Base, when you attempt to install Windows Vista with your legitimately-acquired upgrade key, “you will be blocked from continuing.”

        Its solution to this? Well, it says you can take your pick of two; you can either spend more money on another product license — a full one this time, you silly git — or start the upgrade installation from within an existing install of Windows 2000, Windows XP, or even Vista itself.

        This was supposed to mean that you can no longer perform a clean install with the upgrade CD/DVD of the latest version of Windows.

        Or so it seemed up until not a full day ago, for there is a third option.

        In a twist of fate, the likes of which Microsoft must be rather miffed, the Vista upgrade can, indeed, perform a shiny clean install without requiring anything else but itself.

        The lads over at DailyTech discovered that you first must install Vista with the upgrade media without using a license key — this installs the 30-day trial. Once you’re in here, you can initiate the actual install, or ‘upgrade’ as the kids call it, and this will accept your upgrade key.

        It’s not quite a clean install, but it’s a handy trick to have up the sleeve, nonetheless.

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        1: Alternate last sentence
        It’s not quite a clean install, but it’s cleaner than starting with a different OS version.

        tin (45 days ago)
        reply
        2: I tried this … doesn’t
        I tried this … doesn’t work at all. At least not on my puter.

        john (42 days ago)
        reply
        3: Who is the Real Pirate???
        I wish I had known that the other day when I tried to install my Vista Ultimate edition. I did not KNOW that you had to have on your hard disk the prior version, i.e. XP PRO for me. I had cleaned and formatted my hard drives for a “CLEAN” install. Then found out the hard way.

        As a computer hobbiest and gamer, I am FREQUENTLY reinstalling my operating system AND it is a PAIN in the neck to have to call in for “activation” since I have exceeded my “allotted” number. These “Piracy Protection schemes” may make them more money, BUT they don’t create much good will with us paying consumers having to jump through the hoops pleading to get our product reactivated…a product we paid very good money for. I lost a program from ScanSoft for “over activating”, so I will never buy another product from them or Tenebril for they, in effect, “pirated” my copies of legally purchased software by putting up roadblocks making activiation burdonsome.

        But back to my point, I didn’t NOT want to again go through the process of having to reactive XP Pro just to install Vista Ultimate. So I tried to upgrade without activating XP first AND it worked!!! Thank God for that.

        For home users, Microsoft should do what some other software providers are doing and give three licenses per product purchase. The cost of an upgrade is the cost of a major appliance and I only have ONE computer. I can’t imagine being a family household need to shell out more money for extra copies.

        I think Bill Gates is the REAL PIRATE for he’s got all the booty!!!! Just kidding Bill. 🙂

        why not
        ta mick

        • #2534919

          ms desrves what it gets

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well the lid has blown on this one

          Windows Mobile 6 pirated!
          1st March 2007 David Flynn Mobility, Windows

          A modified version of the code for Windows Mobile 6, which Microsoft launched less than two weeks ago at the 3GSM mobile phone conference, has hit the Net.

          It’s the handiwork of ?Kyphur’, a moderator at the discussion forums on XDA Developers site, who has released a hacked version of the code for Windows Mobile 6, aka ?Crossbow’.

          Because the foundation Windows Mobile codebase has to be accompanied by drivers for each specific model of PDA or smartphone (unlike its desktop sibling, which includes a broad set of drivers with others are offered by hardware manufacturers), the pirated version of Windows Mobile 6 is tuned to run only on one Windows Mobile device.

          Fortunately that device is the ?Hermes’, one of the most popular smartphones produced by Taiwanese company HTC (an OEM/ODM responsible for an estimated 80 percent of the world’s Windows Mobile devices).

          The Hermes is sold under a wide variety of brands and badges including the O2 Xda Trion, Cingular 8525, i-mate JASJAM, Dopod 838Pro, T-Mobile MDA Vario IIm, Vodafone v1605, Orange SPV M3100, NTT DoCoMo hTc Z and SoftBank X01HT.

          The code, Kyphur says is based on a plain ?vanilla’ edition of Windows Mobile 6 for Hermes, has been cheekily dubbed Windows Mobile XDA Live.

          In a posting on the forum, Kyphur happily shares the credit for this feat with fellow members of the XDA Developers community, saying “my head is in the clouds on this one only because I’m standing on the shoulders of giants. This project owes its very existence to many other contributors here and they deserve as much if not more of the kudos than I do.”

          A better Windows Mobile than Windows Mobile?
          While poking around the Crossbow codebase, Kyphur decided to add a few enhancements to his bespoke OS.

          The revised ROM image includes a handful of extra applications including a registry editor, tweaking tool, SMS backup, dictionary editor for the Word Mobile spell-checker and Microsoft’s own Hearts card game.

          The Remote Desktop Mobile utility has also been embedded into the ROM, along with two ?classic’ ring tones and some streamlining of the default display and the actions associated with hardware buttons.

          Missing from the Windows Mobile XDA Live mix are “all carrier customisations”, boasts Kyphur — “no need to soft reset to avoid customisation!”, along with some features such as push-to-talk, the Live! Mobile instant messenger and Windows Mobile Update client.

          ta mick

        • #2534918

          security on vista is crap

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms desrves what it gets

          Let’s cut the crap about Vista security
          By Stan Beer
          Thursday, 15 February 2007
          At first the media were crowing that there were no Vista flaws to be patched. Then it was oops there was in fact one critical bug, although it was actually part of the Windows Defender security software. The real issue is, however, is that there WAS a vulnerability in Vista and there will be more.

          Related stories I can almost hear Vista advocates screaming from the rafters: “For heaven’s sake it was just one tiny Vista flaw out of 20.” To them I say baloney!

          How many Vista users are there in the marketplace compared to XP, Win 2000 and Win 98 users? Where are the efforts being focussed by the security companies who discover these flaws? Where are the hackers most likely to direct their exploits? Not Vista with its still tiny user base.

          No doubt as Vista gets more widely used, more vulnerabilities will be discovered and more zero day exploits will surface. Remember this is an operating system that is necessarily backwardly compatible with previous versions of Windows. Also remember that one of the key selling points previous versions of Windows was their stability and improved security.

          Is Vista more secure than XP? Probably, unless of course you run it in administrator mode and turn off features such as the User Account Control that many users report to find annoying.

          Here is a prediction. As each monthly Tuesday patching cycle is revealed to the public, there will be an increasing number of update patches released for Vista. Assuming Vista becomes the predominant Windows operating system by say 2009, as some analysts suggest, the monthly patches will be no fewer in number than they are today and the majority will involve Vista or the Microsoft software that runs on it.

          At first glance, Vista looks to be a very nice, powerful and resource hungry operating system. But let’s not kid ourselves; it’s no more a security silver bullet than Windows XP
          ta mick

        • #2534917

          10 reasons not to get vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to security on vista is crap

          10 reasons not to get Vista
          21st January 2007 Ashton Mills Kernel Knowledge, Linux, Vista, Windows
          It’s all too easy to get caught up in the million dollar marketing engine as we approach the consumer release of Windows Vista, so lets not forget that it isn’t the second coming, and by all counts is an upgrade you can do without.

          There are many lists out there on why to get Vista, so here’s ours on why not to.

          1. You don’t actually need it — No, think about this. Vista doesn’t do anything you can’t already do with XP. About the only significant shift requiring Vista is DirextX10, but as no titles support it yet and, according to John Carmack (the godfather of modern gaming) there’s no need to yet either.

          2. Cost $$ — It’s so blindingly obvious, most people will be blinded to it. You already have XP, and alternatives like Linux are free. If you really want to throw money away, go give it to a local charity.

          3. On that note, it’s outrageously overpriced — at least in Australia. As revealed in the current APC, even after taking into account the profit margin Microsoft Australia previously applied to XP (as well as exchange rates, as you would expect), Australians are paying hundreds of dollars more for their copies than in the US. In fact, it’s cheaper for Australians to buy Vista direct by mail order from the States. If you think Microsoft Australia is reaming us, vote with your wallet.

          4. Upgrading hardware — XP was demanding at release, but Vista more so. If you have an older machine that struggles with XP at the best of times, Vista is out of your ballpark unless you spend even more money to upgrade. If this is you, see point 1.

          5. Driver support — Key hardware like video and sound is crippled at the moment — while Nvidia is working furiously to get a stable driver for the 8800 out by the 30th, there’s still no SLI support for any of the Nvidia range. And thanks to the removal of hardware accelerated 3D sound in Vista, Creative’s popular DirectSound based EAX no longer works at all, muting this feature for just about all gaming titles on the market today. Creative is in the process of coding a layer for its drivers to translate EAX calls to the OpenAL API which is seperate from Vista, but going by past experience with Creative drivers we won’t see these any time soon.

          6. Applications that don’t work — there’s been plenty of coverage about applications that won’t work without a vendor update. These include anti-virus, backup and security software such as those from Symantec, Sophos and ilk; CD and DVD burning tools like the suite from Nero need updated versions to work; and even basic disk management and partitioning tools such as Paragon’s Hard Disk Manager are awaiting an update for Vista to be compatible. How many more will fail as Vista enters mainstream? Even Firefox has issues with Vista.

          7. It’s a big fat target — with a new and untested in the global wild architecture, virus and malware authors are going to work overtime exploiting the holes Microsoft missed. In fact it’s already happening. Loath though I am to use the word ‘security’ and ‘Windows’ in the same sentence, Windows XP has at least been patched to the hilt and can be used with a plethora of reasonably effective security tools that work now, without waiting for an update down the track.

          8. UAC — Oh yes, the Microsoft solution for an operating system where mutli-user was an afterthought. Sure, you can disable it, but the OS then makes it clear then that the onus is on the user for any damaging programs that got to run with permissions, rather than with Windows in the first place. If you do have it on, it is going to annoy the hell out of you. It pops up far too frequently, and even on a fast PC, the UAC screen takes too long to come up and disappear.

          9. DRM — And to a lesser degree TPM — were made for the RIAAs and MPAAs of this world, and the even tighter integration of copy protection mechanisms and ‘Windows Rights Management’ into vista are nothing more than a liability to you, the user. This ComputerWorld piece says is succinctly: ‘it’s hard to sing the praises of technology designed to make life harder for its users.’ As for TPM, this short animated video shows just how far the rabbit hole goes. And to think you pay for the privilege of having the use of media you purchased and own dictated by third parties, even on your own system.

          10. The draconian license — somehow, Microsoft has forgotten that it built its business from products that empowered its customers, not hampered them. Of course, we forget that Microsoft’s customers aren’t you and I, afterall (see point 9). Aside from the backward thinking that is licensing, and not actually owning, your software new terms with Vista include being able to transfer the license only once; half the limit compared to XP for Home Basic and Premium on how many machines can connect to yours for sharing, printing and accessing the Internet; limits on the number of devices that can use Vista’s Media Center features; activation and validation governing your ability to upgrade hardware and use Windows itself; and outlawing the use of Home Basic and Premium with virtualisation software, and Ultimate only if DRM enabled content and applications aren’t used. But then again, who reads these anyway?

          The rebuttals…
          Dan Warne at The Invistagator blog has written a rebuttal, listing the 10 reasons you should get Vista.
          Thom Holwerda, Managing Editor of OSNews, has written a rebuttal on his blog about the upsides of Vista.
          I’ve rebutted Thom Holwerda’s rebuttal 🙂
          APC reader Ben Hay of Queensland has also written a rebuttal to Holwerda’s rebuttal. (This is getting confusing.)

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          1: I knew I didn’t want to buy
          I knew I didn’t want to buy Vista. Now I’m not sure I’d even use it if I got it for free.

          One thing that ticks me off about MS is how they break everything, call it a required change, then bang on about backwards compatibility. From what I can tell, Vista is about 10% compatible and 90% weird and unnescessary changes.

          tin (56 days ago)
          reply
          2: Number 1 reason to not get vista
          You can actually insist on XP from Dell etc.

          If more people did that, then maybe even Microsoft can’t get rid of XP. Just like Intel can’t get rid of the x86 even thought they tried with the Itanium. Same for IBM when they tried to shift to MCA instead of staying “IBM PC Compatible”

          If enough people ignored Vista and stuck to Windows XP, even Microsoft would have to remain “Windows XP Compatible”.

          And then we can concentrate on genuine innovations and features rather than helping Microsoft extend their monopoly via the frog boiling method.

          This is the number one reason to not use Vista.

          Anonymous (54 days ago)
          reply
          3: Re: Number 1 reason…
          The one problem with this reason is that MS has absoluetly no problem with burning off XP disks, and distributing them for $X. However, unfortunately with the release of Vista, they are getting rid of support for XP.

          This means that if the amount of XP use remains the same, there will be no continued effort to patch up security flaws that undoubtedly still exist, and within a few years (or months), people will be forced to use Vista, as XP will be comparative to a block of swiss cheese. As it is, it IS swiss cheese – but most holes have yet to be found. They will be, and without support, they will remain open.

          Other than that, I agree. I would strongly suggest avoiding Vista for now – let other people get exposed to security flaws, etc. first, and then (once MS is forced to lower the price, and fix it) upgrade when XP is too far gone. I personally was using ME until 2 years ago – though that really wasn’t any better – it’s all MS.

          Mr. Safety (54 days ago)
          reply
          4: Don’t forget MS does not
          Don’t forget MS does not care, and they never listen to the user. XP will be obsoleted in 5 years weather anyone goes to Vista or not. Linux(I use this instead of Windows at home) and MAC are viable alternatives. Linux does take some knowledge of configuring, dependencies, and permissions, but the price is right. I only know what my friends that own MACs say about them, and they do not have anything goods to say about Windows. Maybe it’s time to go to a MAC.

          Anonymous (54 days ago)
          reply
          5: Its in the bag.
          I am a hardcore gamer. That is 90% of my computer usage. I refuse to buy into Vista because of all the DRM/HDCP included. I didn’t ask for it. Its being forced down my throat. Gates knows this. Hardcore gamers don’t want Vista.

          DirectX 10 is the answer. Start making games that only upgraders can play. This is like making a game which comes on DVD… DVD is now standard in all home computers. But games still come out on 7CDs instead of DVD just in case someone doesnt have a DVD drive yet. Unless my hand is forced in order to play the next best game…. I wouldn’t install Vista if I was paid handsomely to.

          Anonymous (54 days ago)
          reply
          6: it’s already in the bag
          halo2 for the PC will only play on vista. i would imagine the list of “vista exclusives” will get longer by the day.

          kill-9 (51 days ago)
          reply
          7: HALO
          Halo PC sucks anyway, Why do you think HALO2 PC won’t be the same?.

          Anony (19 days ago)
          reply
          8: You know what’s funny?
          Because the last people who should whine about “cost” would be gamers. So you did not upgraded your computer for matching more hardware requiring new games, releasing every day? I mean com’on, if you are a hardcore gamer, you already have a computer that can work 5 vista at same time. You must have much better hardware to run Oblivion than Vista recommendations to play it smoothly.

          I’m using P4 2.6, 7200 IDE harddisks, X800″AGP” video card, Windows Vista works much more smoother than my XP at this moment. My only luxury is my “2 Gb RAM” which are 333 Mhz (that can’t be matched for many gamers)

          Basically, Vista works smoother, better, safer.

          Anonymous (47 days ago)
          reply
          9: GAME ON
          I’m into gaming myself, can’t wait until GTA 4 comes out on PC, hope it comes out on that platform, it normally does. I just love GTA. Played all of them starting from GTA 3 to San Andreas. Only PC version only. I just hope that most future games can still run on XP. HALO 3 is only Windows VISTA, hope most games now and for the next few years are still XP compatiable. Only thing is this directX10. You can only get it on VISTA!

          Anonymous (46 days ago)
          reply
          10: It?s stupid claims
          Unless you want the old games like cs or ut2003, you should go for Vista. Hardcore gaming, as I see it, is more for sport than actual injoying the game and it?s elements. Actual playing means you want all you can get of everything. Say, I?m willing to upgrade my rig with new hardware, vista (in time) and so forth not only to get the best performance, but for future use and stability.
          For the average user, vista may not be needed. But for those who love games and see themself injoying these for future times, you can?t miss the vista upgrade. This is of course for the DX10 upgrade. When playing future games, you really want the best graphic. As for those vista problems you listed above, I laugh about it. Analysis of the text more than show how distasteful the author were at the time of the writing. problems should always, if they are based on facts, be listed neutral. “You can?t scare me Paul”

          Anonymous (46 days ago)
          reply
          11: New games will support DX 10
          New games will support DX 10 yes, but they will also support DX 9.
          Game creators will not cut their purse strings and only make DX 10 games from now on.
          Only Halo 2 is Vista Only and Microsoft will learn that they will lose revenue because of this. Any way Halo was boring, running down corridors and reaching spawn points with excessive amounts of enemies; Halo 2 will be the same.

          Mickey101C (15 days ago)
          reply
          12: Vi$ta
          Went down the local puter store and had a look. Home basic … which is the version my puter can run [1.8gig, 2gigs ram, 256 vid card] … according to M$’s vi$ta checking tool, is nearly $400.

          I don’t know about anyone else, but I find this price outlandish for an o/s version that is only supposed to deal with basic computer work. Even the upgrade is $200 for home basic. I think I shall be spending my puter dollars elsewhere from now on.

          john (47 days ago)
          reply
          13: Vista
          The price is nowhere near that now, it’s $199 for the full version and the upgrade is $99, with additional licenses available for $50 each, up to three.

          Justin (24 days ago)
          reply
          14: Go online and purchase the
          Go online and purchase the OEM versions of Vista.
          Home Premium is about $120.

          Mickey101C (15 days ago)
          reply
          15: Time for Linux Spruikers to shape Up
          All fair comments but at the end of the day, the Vista OS will win out because of a lack of alternatives. And before any Linux Spruikers jump up and down, I have in the last week tried installing 3 different distro’s, Including an Old Red Hat, uBuntu and Suse from the APC DVD. They all failed on the system i built for it. And guess what, XP Pro went without a hitch. To cut it short i eventually got Suse working on another system. Point to all this is that Linux Spruikers should spend more time making an OS that works out of the box rather than putting energy into telling us all that Linux is a better or equal alternative.

          AndrewM (56 days ago)
          reply
          16: Exactly. Rag Vista all you
          Exactly. Rag Vista all you want, but this time next year do you really think the population will be using ubuntu or any other OS? I guarantee there is more bugs in that OS than Vista. Forget that a multi billion dollar company is releasing it, and imagine that a bunch of dudes writing an open source OS are releasing it and I bet everyone would be singing the praises… True???

          Greg Holland (56 days ago)
          reply
          17: So basically you don’t want
          So basically you don’t want any rights and you are going to stop using torrents and p2p networks. And the general public has no alternative other than linux. Lies, theres are hundreds of OSes that are available, i can think of 3 different ones off the top of my head that are becoming more and more amazing and user friendly every day, ReactOS, Mac OS X, and the infinite flavors of Linux. I for one will not be upgrading to Vista. And I will offer my services to friends to help them get a different OS other than M1Cr0$h4f7

          Anonymous (56 days ago)
          reply
          18: Sorry, but i guess you know
          Sorry, but i guess you know you are clueless and thus shouldn’t spread all that nonsense.

          First off all, p2p networks and Torrent Clients do work with Vista. You seem to have gotten the DRM part wrong. You can even still play non DRM Media and use DRM-incompatible software.

          ReactOS is an interesting project, but even ReactOS developers are going to tell you that it is still far away from anything an enduser would want to use.

          Linux is still troublesome to install (which was the point of critic here i guess) if your hardware is less than 5 years old. I just got through a very painfull opensuse 10.2 install myself (and i know what i’m doing) because my aging Geforce 6800 isn’t supported out of the box.

          Mac would be an upgrade path of course, but it also will mean you have to buy a complete set of new Hardware and you have to rebuy all you comercial software.
          Plus, most Macs have an TPM-chip, so if you aren’t as paranoid about them, you are obviously biased.

          Of course there are plenty of other OSses for PCs around but none of them has a big (comercial quality) software base and emulators are too slow for real use while compatibility layers which exist (wine) are so incompatible that they are basically useless (even an ancient Photoshop 5 crashes it as soon as you start realy using it, so we dont even have Win95 compatibilty yet).

          So while i will not Upgrade to Vista i can absolutely understand why people will do that.

          Anonymous (55 days ago)
          reply
          19: Vista also means new hardware to get the most from it
          RE…Mac would be an upgrade path of course, but it also will mean you have to buy a complete set of new Hardware…

          Vista needs big hardware resources, particularly if you want to get the most from it. So, if you need to buy a new OS such as Vista which will also mean buying new hardware, well, you might as well look at buying a Mac.

          Macs are safer than Vista too – I can’t imagine for one moment that a home user setting a Vista PNRP domain name on their computer is going to be safe for very long

          Tony (55 days ago)
          reply
          20: The people who are most
          The people who are most interested in getting Vista are those people who play games (DirectX 10). If you have an PC that is capable of playing recent games (1+GB Ram, DirectX9 compatible Graphicscard, 2+GHz CPU) then you have an Vista compatible PC.

          I have seen it run well on an 1GHz Pentium M with 786 MB Ram.

          Macs also force you to buy an Display as well, people who have an PC obviously already have an Monitor. Mac fanatics always compare prices on the basis that you buy an new monitor every two years which obviously isn’t the case in PC-Land. The only Macs you can buy without buying an Display are the MacMini and the Mac Pro.

          The Mac Mini will never be an Upgrade to your PC because of its 1999 Level GPU (yes, it has Pixelshaders but it doesn’t even have Hardware T&L and thus is useless even for basic 3D applications).

          The Mac Pro is absolutle overkill (who needs two double core CPU? – most of you apps will not gain any speed from it, except if you spend all day compressing videos) and thus costs twice as much as someone would spend on an resonable PC.

          If there would be an resonable desktop Mac without integrated Monitor (whos silly idea is that anyway… what are you gaining from an integrated display? That you can scrap your Diplay as well if your computer died an early death and vice versa?) i could be tempted, but until then i’ll stick with linux (beeing someone who can live with its much more problematic install and maintanance).

          Anonymous (55 days ago)
          reply
          21: RE The people who are
          RE The people who are most
          ***********************************
          Yous said: “The Mac Mini will never be an Upgrade to your PC because of its 1999 Level GPU (yes, it has Pixelshaders but it doesn’t even have Hardware T&L and thus is useless even for basic 3D applications).”…

          Agree with your sentiments, but it is quite possible that the Mac Mini will be upgraded to an Intel Core 2 Duo etc around March along with the OS X Leopard release.

          The Mac Mini costs $949 (including OS X), whereas Windows Vista Ultimate costs $751 alone.

          So, if the Mac Mini gets updated in March, all one needs to do is plug it into your existing keyboard, mouse and display.

          If you don’t need 3D, well, of course, you can get the Mac Mini now.

          Just because Vista will be on the market by the end of this month, doesn’t mean everybody has to go rushing out to buy it straight away. It would be worth waiting say 6 months for Vista to settle down (patches etc) and also to see what Apple’s response is. Oh, and, who knows, Ubuntu’s next release might even catch up to the Mac too…

          Tony (55 days ago)
          reply
          22: Let me help you with the
          Let me help you with the price a little my friend:

          Windows Vista Ultimate FULL Package (including x86 and x64 DVD Versions): $379.99

          Link:
          http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-?=UTF8&s=software

          Windows Vista Ultimate UPGRADE Package (including x86 and x64 DVD Versions): $259.99

          Link:
          http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-?amp;colid=NGZDI6G3ATSH

          Brand new Compaq Presario v6000z AMD Turion Dual-Core T50 / 1024 MB DDR2-SDRAM /Windows Media Center 2005 with a free coupon for a Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade: $704.99

          Link:http://www.shop?me=V6000Z_series

          ……

          Jazzor (54 days ago)
          reply
          23: Macs also force you to buy
          Macs also force you to buy an Display as well, people who have an PC obviously already have an Monitor. Mac fanatics always compare prices on the basis that you buy an new monitor every two years which obviously isn’t the case in PC-Land. The only Macs you can buy without buying an Display are the MacMini and the Mac Pro.

          Well, I am a graphics designer, and curently using PC/Win combination. Problem is I can’t swich to Linux becouse of obvious sotware problem. As we all await release of Vista and very fast end of support for all software made for XP My only choice at this point must be MAC

          The Mac Mini will never be an Upgrade Your PC because of its 1999 Level GPU (yes, it has Pixelshaders but it doesn’t even have Hardware T&L and thus is useless even for basic 3D applications).

          I have tried MacMini, and mentioned iMac with integrated monitor (24″/Intel core2duo…). Both of them are not “good enough” for me at this point, and my long term planing.

          The Mac Pro is absolutle overkill (who needs two double core CPU? – most of you apps will not gain any speed from it, except if you spend all day compressing videos) and thus costs twice as much as someone would spend on an resonable PC.

          Well, MacPro on any speed with 2GB of RAM is mine ultimate solution. And not for 1 or 2 but minimum 4 years period. And with 23″ HD monitor certified for prepress (wich I had tested) I don’t have to worry about my work. Also all software I currently use I don’t need to upgrade or buy again, becouse they work with same licence numbers and activation (checked personally) 🙂 So, if you look on tihis my way, it make sence. And with new mac I can still use old Win and windows applications if I ever need to.

          Aleksa (54 days ago)
          reply
          24: You sir know nothing about Linux
          if you think the latest distros are hard to install. After having installed linux for many friends who were fed up with Windows (for all sorts of reasons) I have run into very few glitches at all.

          Anonymous (42 days ago)
          reply
          25: NO THEY DON’T!
          P2P is crippled in Vista you PC illiterate moron and 9 out of 10 games crash on Vista. Vista is a piece of crap! Deal with it idiot!

          Annonymous (22 days ago)
          reply
          26: Don’t use “Old” redhat
          Why did you use “Old Red, Suse and Ubuntu”,
          it would be a good idea to try the newest
          copies of each. Would you expect Winddows 3.1 to
          work compatibly on a Core 2 Duo box with a
          Geforce 8800 card?

          Anonymous (56 days ago)
          reply
          27: What does not work out of the box?
          Linux has been the ONLY platform I have used to work out of the box. The last time I installed Windows XP on a reformatted drive, I had to install a number of additional drivers just to make things work, even as basic as sound and graphics support. I run Ubuntu and the last time I ran the installation it detected and setup everything without a hitch. I guess I have gotten pampered with Linux installation and had forgotten what a pain in the ass installing Windows really is. I think you must be either a troll or have pretty exotic hardware, but even that I find hard to believe since Linux has such great support with exotic hardware as it is.

          Anonymous (56 days ago)
          reply
          28: Yeah, people who aren’t of
          Yeah, people who aren’t of your opinion just *have* to be trolls, right?

          It is enough to have an “recent” (that is, only 2-4 generations old) Graphics Card and your install will be troublesome.

          Want examples? Geforce 6800 which was released in 2004(!) will crash your Ubuntu (or Suse or Fedora or whatever) install and will require you to download and install the proprietary nVidia drivers from a console without any help, which is asked a little much from an user that doesn’t have good linux knowledge.
          If nv drivers don’t work at all, why do distributions try anyway to run you Graphicscard with them? That’s just stupid.

          If you have more than one Soundcard installed (which is quite common because of crappy onboard sound devices everywhere) then you will have a fun time manually modifing configuration files (of course anyone new to linux does that while sleeping) on you Ubuntu installation.

          If you have an 5.1 sound system that sounds like crap in stereo mode, good luck getting upmix to actually play stereo sources in 5.1 upmix (and i don’t mean 4.0 upmix, which doesn’t solve the problem). I gave up on that in Linux and simply don’t listen to music on Linux.
          In Windows that is a nobrainer.

          Not to forget that there are still applications missing for many tasks. There aren’t realy good alternative for video editing, Gimp isn’t an replacement for Photoshop, there aren’t any real replacements for Music compositing software that you can get on Mac and Windows and who could blame the commercial application developers. Linux support is a nightmeare for non OSS software.

          Alleister (55 days ago)
          reply
          29: You haven’t tried installing
          You haven’t tried installing Linux recently (last year or so), have you? I’m not saying that you are a troll, more of an misinformed or very unlucky individual. I have had no problem on installing several Linux distributions on a lot of machines, also desktops. My teenage (17) sister installed Ubuntu Edgy by herself without any problems at all, to be honest i have to add that i had to burn the CD for her, burning a CD out of an iso file is too much for her. She has used Linux ever since for all her purposes: iPod, photos, text editing, instant messaging, viewing web pages etc. Both of my parents use Linux (57,58) and never had any problems with it whatsoever. I myself have used Linux for more than five years and since a year or so I haven’t used Windows for purposes other than occasional support at work. I had some sound problems with the new Creative sound cards but hardware issues are not too much of a bother with modern Linux distributions. To be frank the only people that should not consider switching to Linux at this stage of development of the system are are frequent Excel (advanced functions), Photoshop and Acrobat users, hardcore Windows gamers and professionals who require a specific piece of software running on their PC’s.

          bg (54 days ago)
          reply
          30: isn’t that everyone
          To be frank the only people that should not consider switching to Linux at this stage of development of the system are are frequent Excel (advanced functions), Photoshop and Acrobat users, hardcore Windows gamers and professionals who require a specific piece of software running on their PC’s.

          isn’t that everyone?

          Anonymous (54 days ago)
          reply
          31: Not it isn’t.
          It isn’t everyone. What about the “normal” users.
          Internet, chat, mail, job/school works with office and little more?
          And they aren’t a minory…
          I’m not saying that everyone must go to gentoo (but it will be ok :P), but there are a lot of “light” distributions that a windows user can install easier than windows.

          aldraia (46 days ago)
          reply
          32: Linux
          Try using xandros v4 we have found it perfect for home and office use and childs play to install PC’s

          rg (35 days ago)
          reply
          33: 64 Bit Drivers
          Graphic cards have always been one of the stickiest topics in the Linux world. Some producers are more cooperative than others, but often times it takes months for them to produce linux compatible drivers. This leaves linux users to wait, or to undertake the task of creating the drivers themselves.

          Without any documentation to go by, this takes time.

          At the moment, the 32bit version of the Ubuntu install has no problem detecting most video cards, especially if you use the live CD.

          However, last I checked there were still issues with some of the 64 bit drivers.

          Unless you really want to get ever little last possible bit of performance out of your machine, the 32 bit versions of the OSes work just fine on a 64 bit processor. ^_^

          burlingk (54 days ago)
          reply
          34: wtf pwned?
          dude, nv6800 work fine with the nv driver. True you won’t get direct rendering support (ergo not all 3d features) but it will give you a display! And yes, to get the good drivers you have to install them from the Nvidia site, BUT that is more of a legality issue than the distrobutions fault. some less popular distro’s will set up restricted drivers ‘out the box’ but the mainstream distros want to avoid the legal destruction.

          Anonymous (54 days ago)
          reply
          35: >Want examples? Geforce
          >Want examples? Geforce 6800
          FALSE – SUSE10.0 installed & working

          >If you have more than one Soundcard installed
          Some FALSE – SUSE10.0 plag&play. (ESS+i865-internal) Configured only for Skype – it has really stupid settings.

          >If you have an 5.1 sound system that sounds like crap in stereo mode,
          FALSE – SUSE10.0 + Audigy2ZSPlatinum plag&play.

          >here aren’t realy good alternative for video editing
          FALSE – STFW

          >there aren’t any real replacements for Music compositing software
          FALSE – STFW

          >Gimp isn’t an replacement for Photoshop
          Some FALSE – Gimp is not for prepress, and is no have some usable gadget, but for web & base task is very good. By the way, you can start Photoshop in linux. “wine” is help for you 🙂

          PS & look for http://freshmeat.net

          Stane (53 days ago)
          reply
          36: ignoramus – the world owes
          ignoramus – the world owes you nothing

          g_liquor (56 days ago)
          reply
          37: full of poo
          Fud, pure and simple. i have owned many different systems, and the only time i ever failed to install linux was red hat 7, 5 years ago. it was as simple as putting in a real modem, not a winmodem. But i did have to read a bit, pretty technical shit for a grade 9 dropout(me, not you)
          .

          ed (56 days ago)
          reply
          38: Not their problem
          You’re forgetting an important piece of information here. Microsoft don’t particularly care if their OS installs on a computer or not. The have in the last week tried installing Windows on 3 different computers, Including an Old Red Hat, uBuntu and Suse from the APC DVD. They all failed on the system i built for it. And guess what, XP Pro went without a hitch. To cut it short i eventually got Suse working on another system. computer/manufacturer hardware, on the other hand, knows that they will go bankrupt if their PCs don’t run Windows or their hardware doesn’t have a Windows driver. This is even more evident since Microsoft is throwing all of these stupid regulations at hardware vendors knowing that they will have to adopt them if they want to remain in business. Your comment about installing Linux is very anecdotal, I have personally installed countless ditributions a number of times on many machines with no issues, and I’ve found instaling Windows a nightmare (I have called the license validation ‘phone number soooooo many times because people come up to me for help when their legally licensed Windows system thinks they have pirated it). However, I can imagine the vast barrage of completely factually accurate anti-Linux comments there would be if Linux Torvalds made the next version of Linux refuse to work if hardware-crippling features X, Y and Z were added.

          Linux (and other Free Software systems) has to put up with whatever the industry throws at them, and personally I think they have done a damned good job so far. Just as an analogy for your comment:

          I have in the last week tried installing 3 different Windows versions, including an old Windows 98, Windows XP and Windows Vista. They all failed on the G5 Mac system i bought for them, the Playstation 3 I got, my GameCube, my Xbox, Amiga, etc. And guess what, Linux went without a hitch on all of them. To cut it short I eventually got 98 working on an x86 system. Point to all this is that Windows Spruikers should spend more time making an OS that works on the boxs rather than putting energy into telling us all that we can’t listen to our music or play our videos. Oh wait, Windows fanboys can’t do that at all, since they would get sued by their beloved Microsoft for getting Windows running on different architectures like PPC, CELL, etc.

          Now, that is not meant to be taken seriously, but I am saying it to show that neither should yours.

          Anonymous (56 days ago)
          reply
          39: Windows NT 4 had versions
          Windows NT 4 had versions which ran on PPC and Alpha

          Anonymous (54 days ago)
          reply
          40: and did you try Mepis?
          So, you tried Red Hat, and not Fedora. You tried Ubuntu which uses the Gnome desktop. You also tried Suse, with is an RPM distro.

          So, let me get this straight, you did not try Mepis? Here, I’ll even copy in the download pages for you : http://www.mepis.org/node/1462

          Just a friendly word of advice AndrewM: Before you go out and bash distributions for not working, do not do these things:

          1: Use older distributions: Unlike Windows which only sees major changes to the operating system about every 5 years or so, major changes to Linux can occur on monthly or weekly basis.
          ta mick

        • #2534915

          miguel dislikes vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to 10 reasons not to get vista

          The new Content, Restriction, Annulment and Protection (CRAP) subsystem built into Vista is another reason to stay away from it.

          Leaving aside the political issues of CRAP, this is what users of Vista will be treated to:

          Executive Executive Summary
          The Vista Content Protection specification could very well constitute the longest suicide note in history.

          This document looks purely at the cost of the technical portions of Vista’s content protection. […] However, one important point that must be kept in mind when reading this document is that in order to work, Vista’s content protection must be able to violate the laws of physics, something that’s unlikely to happen no matter how much the content industry wishes it were possible.

          Read the whole piece, its hilarious.

          The “remote shutdown” capability for device drivers, if true is a reason enough to not buy Vista in any form or shape.

          Microsoft: Shooting itself in the foot. One toe at a time
          well i have to agree
          ta mick

        • #2534916

          miguel dislikes vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to 10 reasons not to get vista

          The new Content, Restriction, Annulment and Protection (CRAP) subsystem built into Vista is another reason to stay away from it.

          Leaving aside the political issues of CRAP, this is what users of Vista will be treated to:

          Executive Executive Summary
          The Vista Content Protection specification could very well constitute the longest suicide note in history.

          This document looks purely at the cost of the technical portions of Vista’s content protection. […] However, one important point that must be kept in mind when reading this document is that in order to work, Vista’s content protection must be able to violate the laws of physics, something that’s unlikely to happen no matter how much the content industry wishes it were possible.

          Read the whole piece, its hilarious.

          The “remote shutdown” capability for device drivers, if true is a reason enough to not buy Vista in any form or shape.

          Microsoft: Shooting itself in the foot. One toe at a time
          well i have to agree
          ta mick

        • #2534914

          what’s wrong with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to miguel dislikes vista

          What’s wrong with Microsoft Windows Vista?
          by John Sullivan ? last modified 2007-03-06 09:46
          Microsoft’s new Windows Vista operating system is a giant step backward for your freedoms.
          Usually, new software enables you to do more with your computer. Vista, though, is designed to restrict what you can do.

          Vista enforces new forms of ?Digital Rights Management (DRM)?. DRM is more accurately called Digital Restrictions Management, because it is a technology that Big Media and computer companies try to impose on us all, in order to have control over how our computers are used.

          Technology security expert Bruce Schneier explains it most concisely:

          “Windows Vista includes an array of “features” that you don’t want. These features will make your computer less reliable and less secure. They’ll make your computer less stable and run slower. They will cause technical support problems. They may even require you to upgrade some of your peripheral hardware and existing software. And these features won’t do anything useful. In fact, they’re working against you. They’re digital rights management (DRM) features built into Vista at the behest of the entertainment industry – And you don’t get to refuse
          them.”

          well i was right wasn’t i ?
          ta mick

        • #2534913

          vista issues

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to miguel dislikes vista

          DRM gives power to Microsoft and Big Media.They decide which programs you can and can’t use on your computer
          They decide which features of your computer or software you can use at any given moment
          They force you to install new programs even when you don’t want to (and, of course, pay for the privilege)
          They restrict your access to certain programs and even to your own data files
          DRM is enforced by technological barriers. You try to do something, and your computer tells you that you can’t. To make this effective, your computer has to be constantly monitoring what you are doing. This constant monitoring uses computing power and memory, and is a large part of the reason why Microsoft is telling you that you have to buy new and more powerful hardware in order to run Vista. They want you to buy new hardware not because you need it, but because your computer needs it in order to be more effective at restricting what you do.

          Microsoft and other computer companies sometimes refer to these restrictions as ?Trusted Computing.? Given that they are designed to make it so that your computer stops trusting you and starts trusting Microsoft, these restrictions are more appropriately called ?Treacherous Computing?.

          Even when you legally buy Vista, you don’t own it.Windows Vista, like previous versions of Windows, is proprietary software: leased to you under a license that severely restricts how you can use it, and without source code, so nobody but Microsoft can change it or even verify what it really does.

          Microsoft says it best:

          The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways.

          To make it even more confusing, different versions of Vista have different licensing restrictions. You can read all of the licenses at http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx.

          It’s painful to read the licenses, and this is often why people don’t object to them. But if we don’t start objecting, we will lose valuable freedoms. Here are some of the ridiculous restrictions you will find in your reading:

          If your copy of Vista came with the purchase of a new computer, that copy of Vista may only be legally used on that machine, forever.
          If you bought Vista in a retail store and installed it on a machine you already owned, you have to completely delete it on that machine before you can install it on another machine.
          You give Microsoft the right, through programs like Windows Defender, to delete programs from your system that it decides are spyware.
          You consent to being spied upon by Microsoft, through the ?Windows Genuine Advantage? system. This system tries to identify instances of copying that Microsoft thinks are illegitimate. Unfortunately, a recent study indicated that this system has already screwed up in over 500,000 cases.
          Free software like GNU/Linux does not require you to consent to these absurd licensing terms. It is called free software because you are free to make as many copies as you want, and to share it with as many friends as you want. Nobody will be monitoring your actions or falsely calling you a thief.

          What you can do to help protect your freedomThere is a battle underway between those who value freedom, and corporations such as Microsoft who wish to profit by taking that freedom away. DRM and absurd licenses are at the heart of that battle. Please join us on the side of freedom by saying NO not just to Windows Vista and other DRM-enabled products, but to proprietary software in general. Instead, use non-DRM, ?free? software such as the GNU/Linux operating system. You can get your work done while ensuring that your rights and freedoms will not be restricted now and into the future.

          As more and more of our lives become digital, it is vital that we protect our digital freedoms just like we have always worked to protect our freedom of expression in print and speech.
          well i have to agree.
          ta mick

        • #2534912

          vista issues

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to miguel dislikes vista

          2007/01/09
          Document Actions
          Analysis of Microsoft’s Suicide Note (part 1)
          by oday ? posted at 2007-01-09 17:59 last modified 2007-02-14 14:30 Copyright 2006 Oliver Day, Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 License

          Oliver Day is a former corporate hacker turned student. While at eEye Digital Security he wrote audits for the Retina Vulnerability Scanner and was a Principal Security Consultant for @stake. He has written an unpublished book on SAN security and found a variety of exploits in web-based applications. He is contributing to BadVista.org a series of posts about the presence and implications of the ?content protection scheme? in Microsoft Windows Vista. This post is the first in that series.

          In a controversial technical analysis Peter Gutmann goes into fantastic detail about the recently released Vista operating system and its content protection scheme. One thing became clear to me after reading this analysis. Vista is being marketed to content producers, not consumers. If Windows XP was Microsoft?s attempt to embed a browser into the operating system then Vista is the attempt to embed DRM. Digital Rights Management technology has been applied to literally every ring of the OS architecture.

          Vista’s target market is content producers and the underlying philosophy of the user experience will be far different then what many consumers expect it will be. Microsoft has attempted to plug the infamous ?analog hole? as much as is possible by forcing all data through encryption algorithms. For those unaware of the ?costs? of encryption it is sufficiently high. Pushing HD audio and video content through encryption/decryption routines is a tremendous strain on any system currently available and in the near future. Even with the application of Moore’s Law a conservative estimate could place affordable and usable systems within this new content system 5 years away. It will be interesting to see how these restrictions will be spun by the large marketing and PR teams since none of these innovations will benefit consumers in any way. The job that has been handed to these PR and marketing teams is to dress up a product designed with every restriction a producer has asked for and make a consumer want to buy it. One of the most quotable lines from the Gutmann analysis sums this up perfectly as, ?breaking the legs of Olympic athletes and then rating them based on how fast they can hobble on crutches.?

          In the past when I have delivered lectures to web application developers I would caution them to never trust user input. Perhaps developers took this philosophy a little too far. The entire operating system now seems to have turned against the user. Zero tolerance drivers and regulation code will lock the system down if any type of deviance is detected. So called ?tilt bits? will signal an attack on the system if anything is found out of the ordinary. These changes won?t enhance user security unfortunately as they were designed to protect only ?premium content?. Medical data, credit card numbers, and other private things that do deserve this level of protection are completly ignored. Untrusting of any environmental changes the system will shut down or degrade performance in response to a perceived attack.

          This is a marked turn from the past versions of the Microsoft operating system. In the past one could take a hard drive from a Windows OS and drop it into an entirely different system. The new hardware would be detected and drivers applied on the spot. At most a single reboot would bring the user back into a usable system. This type of resilience was what impressed me during the early days of the new Windows architecture. In those days Microsoft was fairly dominant but still pursuing new customers. The new Vista scheme signals to me that they have exhausted new customer acquisition and are now focused on milking their existing market.

          In the next post I will look at who benefits (Intel, Hollywood, code obfuscation providers) and who doesn?t (consumers) and some security issues (driver revocations for DDOS)

          ta mick

        • #2534911

          more vista issues

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to miguel dislikes vista

          vista =crap
          Posted January 30, 2007
          Microoft Windows Vista launched today. wooo hoo. nope. I remember getting a leaked early beta way, way back in high school. yes, high school. since then I have graduated high school, attended college, and taken a full time job. Wre talking 6+ years here. plenty of time to inovate right? plenty of time to get things secure, at last, right? nope.

          Windows Vista is not a step forwards. If we were in an amusment park, in line for the ?Best OS ever? ride, here how thigs would look for the past few (5?) years:

          Linux: Started at the back of the line, however, was always moving forwards. never stoped moving, even if it was slow. has been speeding up as of late, see the newest GNOME/Ubuntu releases to see what I mean.

          Mac OS: was pretty far up in the line. keeps moving forward a step at a time, at a regular pace. Still out in front, with linux close behind. Tiger is nice. Leopard will be nicer.

          Windows: with XP it was right at the front of the line. but, in teh last 5 years, it hasn?t moved. its slipped back, behind everyone else. time for a big step forwards with Vista, right? more like they asked the other 2 to cut, got denied, and ended up just taking a tiny step forwards, and another to the side, trying to sleaze their way up there, with no success.

          yeah, that sounds about right.

          seriously. i remember hearing about all the great new things, years ago. WinFS? The big, universal data/meta-data store, for everything? sweet! oh, it didn?t make it into Vista? damn. Full drive encryption? sweet! oh, you need special hardware to do it, and it only come with Ultimate? rough. Better security? oh, its already been cracked..hmm?..

          a few points:

          Aero: looks nice. sorta. OSX looks nicer. Compiz/Berly looks best. this is a spot where Open Source can CRUSH everyone else. such a big community, and so much interest has appeared with the birth of compiz/beryl last year, that the momentum, and pace of development is astounding. New effects are apearing all the time. They are being used not to just look nice, but make the desktop better, more ?real?. The ?expose? feature is already far better and flexible that the Mac original. Vista? window flipping?ah?semi-transparent windows and?what else now? how about 10+ animations per window function (create, close, minimize, maximize, restore, shade, etc). how about you multiple desktops on a cube that rotates and unfolds, or a plane that slides nice and smooth. how about transparent windows, that with the flick of a mouse wheel get more or less as you see fit? how about fluid windows? how about writing over the entire desktop for presentations/screen casts? the list goes on here.

          BitLocker: you need special hardware, or a usb thumb drive. you would have to keep the thumb drive separate from everything else, all the time to keep it secure. plus you would need to buy Ultimate. I?d rather go with the free, open, and standard form of file system encryption, which comes in the Linux kernel.

          Security: So, its more secure, right? i guess. but if it was really secure, why would anyone need to then buy, in addition to the OS, anti-virus/spyware software from microsoft? why? I can jsut use linux, and not have to worry about those things. Same goes for Macs. sigh.

          DRM: So, you buy an HD DVD to play in that fancy new PC you got for Vista. you even have a great graphics card with the nice HD connectors for your big HD monitor. but why does your video look like ass? DRM. the DRM (digital rights management) in Vista is so over bearing, you won?t be able to do much with anything. They are taking the users control from them. I?ll stick with my open os. I can move my media as I wish, to where I wish, because its MY media. I bought the HD DVD, and the hardware. Don?t tell me i cannot play it back.

          Applications: Windows, you get Media Player, ?Mail?, ah?.MSN messenger (who uses that again?), um?.solitaire?.ah?.notepad. the usual.OSX? Mail.iCal.iChat.iDvd.Quicktime.iLife. not bad. Linux? Full Office suite, games, GIMP (Photoshop equivelent), etc, etc etc. its all free. included. you can just say, oh, install X, and it downloads and installs it. easy, right? right.

          Search: Windows Search?eh. It was supposed to use WinFS, but since that got ditched, its got cut way, way back in scale. OSX has Spotlight, which is decent. Linux has a few, mostly Beagle and Tracker. Both are coming along nice. Tracker is faster and light weight. Beagle has more backends and is more mature right now.

          I just don?t get it. Vista costs money. Lots. It might not work on your hardware if its older, or, at the elast, won?t work well, meaning ti will be slow, and features will be turned off. OSX is nice, and leopard is around the corner. no word on price yet. Linux is free. Ubuntu 7.04 is comming up. 6.10 is rock solid. GNOME is getting better every day. i see no reason anyone shouldn?t be using Linux. Or open-standards/data formats.

          I hope Vista eats it. I hope very few people upgrade initially. I hope businesses hold off, for a long, long while. I hope it has major problems, right away. I want Vista to be the last ?Windows?. XP was okay. Vista is XP+bling in my opinion. Microsoft, if you want to make money, do something new. Re Invent the desktop. Tie it all together (the data/meta-data that is). Make it all seamless. Make it fast. Make it secure. Make it insanly easy and intuitive to use. Write it ground up. Do it in 2-4 years, not 6-8. Remember how you made all that money in teh first place? Stealing ideas. I mean being innovative (by stealing ideas). Time to do it again, only elss idea stealing this time. Hire some Mac people. Hire some Linux people. Hire some Google people. bring it all together. and make it free. make it open source. Sell support. Or, just close your doors and let UNIX based OS?s take over the world, as they rightly should.

          I hope to get more detaisl on the parts of vista i think suck, and maybe those that don?t, with in a few weeks,once we get our testing copies. but we shall see.

          ta mick phd

        • #2514563

          vista flops in europe

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to security on vista is crap

          Vista flops in Europe

          p2pnet.net News:- Vista went to computer manufacturers on November 8, but, “More than half of European organisations have no plan to upgrade to Microsoft’s long-awaited operating system Windows Vista,” says BusinessWeek Online, going on:

          “A Forrester survey of 302 IT chiefs at European businesses found that 20 per cent are also planning to wait up to two years after Vista’s release before deploying it. Just six per cent said they planned to deploy it within the first six months of release and 18 per cent within one year.

          This reflects, “greater resistance to the Microsoft product strategy from users in the European market”.
          well guys i was right.
          ta mick

        • #2514562

          vole keeps mum about vista flops

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista flops in europe

          MICROSOFT HAS decided that it will not tell the world plus dog which software will not work with its super soaraway new operating system Vista.
          According to Zdnet, the outfit is wants punters to get a copy of the Microsoft Application Compatibility Toolkit (ACT). This tool allows users to log compatibility problems and cross-check compatibility results for selected applications.

          This is a bit of a turnaround for the Vole. When XP SP2 was released, Microsoft kindly produced a list of applications that had problems with the upgrade. Now, for some reason, Microsoft does not want to tell anyone. Brad Goldberg, Vole?s general manager for Windows client product management, is quoted as saying that releasing the ACT earlier was a much better plan.

          He said that the XP SP2 list needed constant revisions, created considerable customer confusion as the list was always changing. Vista would be even worse as Volish partners would be continually releasing Vista fixes, Vista drivers and new Vista-customised products.

          Of course, that is not to say that a list of software which has problems with Vista might be a bit long and create a PR embarrassment which the Vole probably would like to avoid.
          i knew it
          ta mick

        • #2514561

          all hell has broken loose at ms camp as untimely

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vole keeps mum about vista flops

          vista flops.Vista Flops More Woes Ahead
          By Wire Service | Wednesday | 21/02/2007

          The new Windows OS has flopped. Sales are down over 58 percent with 89 percent of businesses surveyed by SHN claiming that they will not upgrade this year. Also hurting Microsoft is the lack of third party drivers with many organisations and consumers realising that under Vista they cannot run key business or entertainment software.
          The initial sell through data on the new Microsoft Windows Vista indicates the new operating system did not sell as well as Windows XP, but it did spur PC hardware sales in the days following Vista’s Jan. 30 launch.

          The NPD Group’s weekly retail point-of-sale data analysis for Vista’s launch week showed unit shipments down 58.9 percent and dollar sales down 32.1 percent compared with the comparable period for Windows XP’s launch, reported Chris Swenson, NPD’s software analysis director.

          However, NPD found hardware sales for that same week were up 67 percent compared with the same period in 2006. While the research firm believes some of this increase reflects normal growth, much of it can be attributed to Vista.

          Retailers also noted an immediate hardware sales increase.

          “We’re pleased with the initial sales of Windows Vista software and computers running the new operating system. During the first week of sales said one major retailer who saw a spike in computer and software sales,” said Virginia Hodges, the chain’s home and business technology. “We expect sales of the software and computers running the new operating system to increase over the next few months as more consumers experience Windows Vista.”

          Steve Baker, NPD’s industry analysis VP, had stated that there was a fall-off in PC sales in the weeks leading up to Vista’s release, demonstrating that consumers were holding off until they could get a Vista-equipped PC.

          “Sales had slowed leading up to the release of Vista. Customers were probably holding off purchasing new PCs until the launch, although in October, Microsoft did offer free upgrades on systems purchased prior to the rollout,” confirmed Paulette Brown, business development director for RCS Computer Experience.

          She added that RCS experienced a 300 percent increase in PC sales year-over-year for the weeks starting Jan. 30. Brown couched that statement saying the store only had a limited number of PCs available last year.

          “Office Depot is pleased with the performance of Microsoft Vista and Microsoft Office software to date,” said Linda Boykin, the company’s divisional merchandising manager “Initial indications are showing a smooth platform transition for customers, and sales traffic has been meeting our expectations.”

          Amazon.com said Vista-based Sony, Toshiba and Hewlett-Packard computers dominated its top sellers list after Jan. 30 and the company saw a healthy number of customers place pre-orders on Jan. 28 and this activity greatly increased after Jan. 30.

          The Microsoft Office 2007 Vista was Amazon’s No. 2 best-selling software title still in late February with the Vista Premium selling far below in the 25 slot.

          It appears Microsoft and the various vendors did a good job informing consumers on whether their computer could handle Vista.

          “One week after the launch, we’ve only heard from three customers in total about problems loading Vista onto their PCs, mostly relating to a wireless driver issue,” said RCS’ Brown.

          Steve Wandler, CEO of the YourTechOnline a Web-based customer support firm, said Vista has not caused a spike in support calls, although some customers have complained the memory- and processor-hungry operating system is slowing down their PCs general operation.
          its all gone wrong need i say more
          ta mick

    • #2531982

      i have feedback that i’m right that yahoo answers

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      is using my statements as authrity as final
      arbiter.Another proof to say i know what i’m talking about.
      ta mick

    • #2525993

      current expose points to heaps

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      of problems not just driver but right accross the broad specrum of hardware & software compatibility.

    • #2525697

      apple to delay shipment of leopard

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

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      Report: Apple Will Delay Leopard Launch To Ensure Windows Vista Compatibility

      A Taiwanese electronics publication reports that Apple will push back the launch of Mac OS X 10.5 to September.

      By Paul McDougall
      InformationWeek

      March 23, 2007 10:50 AM

      A Taiwanese electronics publication reported Friday that Apple will significantly delay the launch of its forthcoming “Leopard” operating system to ensure that Macintosh PCs that run the software are also capable of running Microsoft’s new Windows Vista operating system.

      The publication, DigiTimes Systems, cited unnamed sources in reporting that Apple will push back the launch of Mac OS X 10.5 to September in order to finish work on a Leopard version of its Boot Camp technology that is Windows Vista compatible.

      Boot Camp is an Apple utility that enables Mac users to launch and run Microsoft operating systems, enhancing the Mac’s flexibility. Leopard was originally slated to launch in April.

      Apple officials couldn’t immediately be reached for comment, and the report couldn’t be immediately verified by InformationWeek.

      A number of major software makers are scrambling to update their products to ensure Windows Vista compatibility.

      Adobe Systems, for instance, has decided not to release Windows Vista updates for current versions of its Photoshop, InDesign, and Dreamweaver products. Instead, Adobe will devote most of its developer time to ensuring that new versions of the products scheduled to ship this spring are Windows Vista friendly, according to a company spokesman.

      Similarly, a spokesman for IBM said the company has placed Vista certification efforts for its current Lotus Notes products on the back burner to ensure that the forthcoming Lotus Notes 8 Suite is fully compatible with Windows Vista. “It’s a question of how we can best allocate our development resources,” said the spokesman.

      ta mick

    • #2525696

      apple to delay shipment of leopard

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Report: Apple Will Delay Leopard Launch To Ensure Windows Vista Compatibility

      A Taiwanese electronics publication reports that Apple will push back the launch of Mac OS X 10.5 to September.

      By Paul McDougall
      InformationWeek

      March 23, 2007 10:50 AM

      A Taiwanese electronics publication reported Friday that Apple will significantly delay the launch of its forthcoming “Leopard” operating system to ensure that Macintosh PCs that run the software are also capable of running Microsoft’s new Windows Vista operating system.

      The publication, DigiTimes Systems, cited unnamed sources in reporting that Apple will push back the launch of Mac OS X 10.5 to September in order to finish work on a Leopard version of its Boot Camp technology that is Windows Vista compatible.

      Boot Camp is an Apple utility that enables Mac users to launch and run Microsoft operating systems, enhancing the Mac’s flexibility. Leopard was originally slated to launch in April.

      Apple officials couldn’t immediately be reached for comment, and the report couldn’t be immediately verified by InformationWeek.

      A number of major software makers are scrambling to update their products to ensure Windows Vista compatibility.

      Adobe Systems, for instance, has decided not to release Windows Vista updates for current versions of its Photoshop, InDesign, and Dreamweaver products. Instead, Adobe will devote most of its developer time to ensuring that new versions of the products scheduled to ship this spring are Windows Vista friendly, according to a company spokesman.

      Similarly, a spokesman for IBM said the company has placed Vista certification efforts for its current Lotus Notes products on the back burner to ensure that the forthcoming Lotus Notes 8 Suite is fully compatible with Windows Vista. “It’s a question of how we can best allocate our development resources,” said the spokesman.

      ta mick

      • #2525693

        goodness gracious me india bans vista

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to apple to delay shipment of leopard

        The prestigious National Institute of Standards and Technology has put a ban on Windows Vista, but that’s standard procedure, according to NIST’s chief information officer.

        NIST, which does research and sets standards for things like cryptography for government use, is among several federal agencies that have put a moratorium on the use of Vista. The agencies are taking some time to make sure that the new Microsoft operating system meets their needs.

        It is not unusual that large organizations aren’t rushing to install major software updates. These organizations tend to do a lot of testing before upgrading. The same happened when Microsoft released Windows XP, and again with Service Pack 2 for Windows XP. Microsoft widely released Vista in late January.

        Simon Szykman, chief information officer at NIST, was slightly irked by some of the media reports on his agency’s move, which painted the ban as a major slap in Microsoft’s face. In fact, Szykman said, this is business as usual. Ultimately, NIST expects many of its PCs will run Vista. Still, Microsoft has predicted a swift adoption of Vista by businesses.

        NIST, based in Gaithersburg, Md., employs about 2,900 people and has an additional group of about 1,800 visiting researchers who complement the staff. Szykman spoke with CNET News.com about his organization’s plans for Vista.

        Q: What is your current position on Windows Vista?
        Szykman: Our policy states that we’re not allowing users to install or deploy Windows Vista for the time being. We consider this to be an interim policy to give us the time to do the adequate testing of Vista before we deploy it. We don’t expect to have any obstacles that would prevent us from eventually deploying Vista.

        Does the same go for Office 2007 and Internet Explorer 7?
        Szykman: For Office 2007, there is no policy to prevent individual users from purchasing and installing it, but we are not proactively rolling it out. On the issue of Internet Explorer 7, we have advised users not to upgrade to IE7 and are blocking downloads and automatic updates of IE7, again as an interim measure pending interoperability and compatibility testing. It is known that not all Web-based applications that run under IE 6 will function under IE 7, so we need to ensure that our critical business applications work, or are updated if initially they don’t work, before deploying it internally.

        How long does this process to test typically take?
        Szykman: That is hard to say in advance. It can take several months to do all of the various types of testing that are needed. And also depending on what happens, it may be necessary to wait for Microsoft to issue fixes or updates before it is functional enough to use operationally.

        What kind of things do you look for?
        Szykman: We look at a variety of issues. We look at interoperability testing, whether Vista works well with our existing networks and other machines on the network. We look at application testing, to make sure that the critical business applications that we have will actually run under Vista. We look at the ability for us to adequately secure machines that are running Vista.

        We also need to ensure, in addition to the applications, that there are drivers available for legacy equipment that we already have in place. We also need to ensure adequate training of not only the user community but our CIO staff so that we’re prepared to respond to various troubleshooting and help requests, and the people here are also trained to do the deployment.

        These are the kinds of issues that we need to be concerned with. It’s not just having some music-ripping software on a computer that stops working in case of incompatibilities. We have business-critical applications, and if those stop working it gets in the way of doing our job.

        Is there anything in particular in Vista that you like?
        Szykman: The encryption capabilities that are built into Vista are potentially useful from the perspective of federal government mandates. It is hard to say until we’ve adequately looked into its functionality and effectiveness, but there is currently a mandate for encryption of certain types of information and the use of encryption on laptops, so that’s potentially something that will be helpful.

        Is there anything in Vista that might make you postpone upgrading to it?
        Szykman: Nothing that I’m aware of in advance. We’ll have to see what happens with the testing, and interoperability, and availability of drivers and our applications to run on it and so on. But at the moment, we’re not anticipating any specific obstacles.

        Do you have any particular concerns that you’re going into the test with?
        Szykman: I don’t think there are any predispositions or any particular hot issues. We’re going into it with a relatively open mind as well as just looking forward to seeing what comes out of it.

        Do you have a lot of homegrown applications?
        Szykman: We have some, but for the most part we deal with commercial off-the-shelf software whenever we can. There are some applications that are tailored to our requirements.

        In the past, how long have your testing cycles been for a new operating system update? Szykman: I haven’t been through an equivalent testing cycle here. What I can say from common practices is that it is typical for this to take some months. Sometimes the deployment will wait until after a service pack is released. In cases where people do decide to wait for a service pack, it’s because they’re expecting the service pack to address issues that they view as holding up their deployment.

        Do you feel that Microsoft is helping you out? Are they involved at all with what you’re doing?
        Szykman: Our testing is internal, but Microsoft certainly has expressed a willingness to work with customers both at NIST and across the federal government. We don’t see any difficulty in working with them.

        Microsoft is not pressuring you into upgrading sooner?
        Szykman: Not at all. They’re fully respectful of customers making these types of choices and they certainly understand the need for testing before deployment when you’re talking about large, managed organizations.

        Have you used Vista yourself?
        Szykman: I have not.

        What operating systems do you use mostly at NIST?
        Szykman: Primarily Windows, but not exclusively. We also have Linux users, Macintosh users, and people who use other flavors of Unix.

        Would you ever consider moving to a predominantly Linux, Mac OS or other operating system environment?
        Szykman: There’s nothing in place that would prevent that from happening. It really depends on what the business requirements are and what people choose to use. There’s no obstacle to more people using other operating systems. People are able to use the operating systems they choose.

        Are you happy with what Windows XP does for you today?
        Szykman: So far that is supporting a majority of our population and it has been working fine.

        Does it make sense to upgrade to Vista if XP is not broken?
        Szykman: That’s true, except that it’s just part of a natural refresh cycle, and we expect Vista to start coming into our infrastructure in an increasing way as part of the natural refresh cycle. This is just part of the way business is done. It is part of a cycle and lifecycle of management of IT. Hardware gets refreshed, software gets refreshed, applications get upgraded, and operating systems get upgraded. Certainly there are hiccups here and there, but that’s the case with every instance or every step in the process.
        well no one’s going to rush &put vista in unless there are real tangible benefits.
        ta mick

        • #2525686

          apples & retiring bill gates

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to goodness gracious me india bans vista

          Apple’s Jobs hits his magnum opus: Microsoft’s Gates retiring with a whimper
          Posted Mar 9th 2007 11:28AM by Brian White
          Filed under: Management, Microsoft (MSFT), Apple Inc (AAPL)

          With Apple’s iPod and other products firing on all cylinders these days, current CEO Steve jobs appears to be on top of the world. His company’s products are ultra-cool and are doing extremely well, Jobs is having great success with Pixar Studios as well as Apple Inc. (NASDAQ:AAPL) and AAPL shares are doing very well year after year.

          With the impending release of the Apple iPhone, it seems that Apple (and Jobs) can do no wrong at this point in time. One can make a case for Apple products being more popular in the consumer electronics and computing field than they ever have been. Not a bad decade for Jobs and company, so far.

          Contrast this with the impending departure of Bill Gates from Microsoft Corp. (NASDAQ:MSFT) to focus on his worldly philanthropic efforts. I am a great admirer of Gates and the philanthropy that bears his name based on the projects he donates to and funds. It’s been said that the rise of Microsoft and MSFT stock was made on ill-gotten strategies, illegal monopolistic tactics, and other not-good things. Have those who have bought Microsoft products (default on almost every PC these days) actually subsidized the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation? Hmm.

          That aside, the release of Windows Vista — so far — is what I what consider to be a nonevent for the software giant. Sales are not expected to ramp up nicely for quite a while as critic after critic says that the consumer market should be just fine with that older copy of Windows XP.

          Is Windows Vista, which has been torn apart viciously already by reviewers, just another upgrade without much potential except for padding Microsoft’s bottom line? If history judges it that way, then Bill Gates will leave Microsoft with hardly an explosion at all. The one lingering — and hugely important — piece of Gates’s legacy won’t be at Microsoft at all.

          [Disclosure: I own MSFT shares as of 3-9-07]
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          1. Just another blogger suffering from the recency heuristic.

          Vista will continue to make huge money from new computer purchases and Apple will continue to make huge hype by spending their money on the media machine. You may have forgotten the critics said the same things about XP when it was released. Most of the complaints are petty or short-sighted, anyway.

          Props to Apple and Jobs for coming back from the brink of extinction and for becoming a successful company but, frankly, if I went out as the richest man in the world for 13 years running, I couldn’t care less if this blogger thinks I’m “on top” or not.

          Posted at 12:00PM on Mar 9th 2007 by Chocolate Starfish

          2. *sigh* — if you read between the lines, you’ll see that I am actually praising Gates for his philanthropy (more than the current-dud Windows Vista). Thanks for playing, though.

          Posted at 1:15PM on Mar 9th 2007 by Brian White

          3. I agree with OP.

          Sorry, Vista is no dud. The loudest complaints seem to be from those who haven’t used it.

          My favorite line is the fool saying that Vista is a copy of Mac OS. Which Mac OS is that? The one that died a horrible dead (pre OS X) or the one that Mac copied from BSD (OS X).

          Sorry, Mac users called us stupid for using a 3 button mouse. They called us stupid for using pre-emptive multi-threading. They call us stupid for everything they eventually copy and pretend they invented.

          If you think the people afraid to upgrade from XP to Vista are going get excited about the idea of learning a whole new OS that can’t run most of their software, good luck to you. I’ll bet against. Then again, how can you lose. With 95% of the market share, MS can do nothing but lose.

          Posted at 2:58PM on Mar 9th 2007 by Kamujin

          4. Great comments here — keep them up. Chew on this when you can — I own shares in MSFT (check the post disclaimer), but I switched *back* from Vista after installing it (Home Premium from a business friend that lent me it for business evaluation) to XP — the differences (albeit from this informed customer who is not a software engineer) — for me — did not warrant the price. Too much push to use Microsoft products in Vista as well — as Firefox and other non-Microsoft products are my tools of choice. Just my 2 cents here.

          Posted at 3:08PM on Mar 9th 2007 by Brian White

          5. Kamujin you have a real chip on your shoulder and are spreading misinformation. Just because someone you know called you stupid doesn’t mean you should group all Mac user into one group. I’ve been a Mac and PC user professionaly since 1987 and use them side by side daily, so I speak with some knowledge behind my belt. The current Macs use Intel processors and are capable of running ALL major software including Windows apps natively or under virtualization. I’ve used MS multi-button mice on all my Macs and have advised other Mac user to do so as well, I find them very useful, especially when surfing the web.
          The fact is ALL companies use ideas they see other companies using. Apple just happens to be very good at implementing an idea better then most other companies including Microsoft. Apple has brought more innovation to the market then any other PC company. Because OSX is based on a very stable, secure Unix underpinning and has the most intuative interface you WILL see more and more people choosing Macs as their computer of choice, I’ve seen it happening and the regular increase in marketshare month after month, year after year backs this up. I personally would not want any one company to have a monopoly on the PC market, including Apple. Competition is good and keeps innovation moving forward.
          well why not indeed.
          ta mick

        • #2525678

          well why not indeed

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to goodness gracious me india bans vista

          why not.

        • #2527741

          ms getting desperate &offering discounts on vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well why not indeed

          Ang writes
          “Is Microsoft having worries about selling Vista already? Ars reports that Microsoft has announced yet another ‘discount program’ for Vista, but these new discounts work out to only about 10% off list price ? not much when you notice that retailers already sell Vista below list. To make matters worse, the discount program would still end up costing you $100 more than the older ‘family’ discount built around Vista Ultimate in some situations. Ars spends seven paragraphs explaining this convoluted offer. Is all of this complexity supposed to help sell Vista?”
          If you must buy Vista, it might be advisable to sit on your wallet for a while. The discounts are bound to get sweeter.
          ta mick

        • #2527729

          proof of compatibility problems

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms getting desperate &offering discounts on vista

          Windows Vista Compatibility
          All ComTec XPw and XP-IQ software will run on Windows Vista systems. The only known issue is that videos placed on slides will not play.
          Although we are researching the issue, we strongly recommend using ComTec software on Windows XP systems and have decided to provide only limited support on Windows Vista systems. The primary reason for this decision is that there are currently dozens of issues with various hardware devices and programs running on Vista. And, users are very limited in what they can do to resolve these issues. This would place an undue burden on our support structure, requiring us to clear numerous unrelated issues before we can even begin diagnosis of our own products.

          ta mick

        • #2527720

          vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to proof of compatibility problems

          It’s official: Pirates crack Vista at last
          4th March 2007 James Bannan Vista
          A genuine crack for Windows Vista which allows a pirated, non-activated installation of Vista (Home Basic/Premium and Ultimate) to be properly activated and made fully-operational has just been released by a pirate group.
          ta mick

        • #2527718

          is tour phone vista readt?

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to proof of compatibility problems

          Is your mobile Vista compatible?
          23rd February 2007 Tim Gaden Mobility, Vista
          Inexplicably, virtually all the major phone manufacturers have been caught with their pants down over Vista compatibility

        • #2527715

          vista defective

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to proof of compatibility problems

          Why Vista is defective by design
          14th February 2007 Ashton Mills Internet, Kernel Knowledge, Vista, Windows
          Vista’s DRM features have been drawing ever more criticism, but it’s just the latest step among many that takes liberties out of the hands of users and into the media megacorps. So what are you going to do about it?

        • #2527712

          vista flops

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista defective

          BigPond and Optus broadband slip on Vista
          7th February 2007 Dan Warne Internet, The Invistagator, Vista
          More driver woes for Vista users: this time it’s lack of support for USB modems. BigPond is simply refusing to connect anyone using Vista to ADSL or Cable, and Optus admits it hasn’t completed the work to fully support Vista yet.

      • #2527525

        Why would they do that? ?:|

        by dawgit ·

        In reply to apple to delay shipment of leopard

        I’m not so sure about the reasoning… Could it be that they’re waiting for the final blow? (death) M$ as already stated that the Vista OS is only going to have a life span of two years, and the first SP is planed for this summer. I would wait also. It would seem to be the smart thing to do, and we need more ‘Smart Things’ and ‘Smart’ thinking.
        I bet you thought nobody was watching didn’t you. :0 Ha.!. 😀 -d

        • #2520205

          i just thought people did’nt care & no one was watching

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Why would they do that? ?:|

          Both michael hereid snr & hal 9000 have abandoned this thread completely. I agree with you dawgit along the same lines. All things will come in due time no matter how disastrous for ms.I’ve forgotten the name of the new os ms is planning in 2010 i think??
          Also things might happen sooner if the sp is released.
          Hey we just entered autumn here in oz down under.You guys are getting ready for spring!
          ta mick

    • #2538103

      Just not true

      by danceblade ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I am using Vista on a new Dual CPU 6600 with and Nvidia 8800 GTS and it works great. yes, a few driver issues but much to my astonishment a video editing program by Serif which i could never get to run on my XP system runs fine under Vista. Overall i see it as a much better OS !
      The real problem is developers who had over a year to get ready and failed to make the needed changes to their software.

      • #2531651

        with all due respect no one has said you can’t run

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Just not true

        vista.The problems are still to do with compatibility & speed.All tests reveal now that the os system vista is much slower than xp in as much as 10%.
        Why? it is a bloated system in comparison to xp.Also vista uses more code than xp by as much as 10 million more.Bigger does not seem better.The fact is there are heaps of people that have tried the os and are going
        back to xp.Please note software vendors like adobe have refused to partake of any of
        their software for upgrading to vista.
        So the evidence is there for all to see.Ms
        thought they could bullshit their way by labelling vista as a killer product or that vista is an improvement on xp is a complete
        joke.The drape features on vista are crappy & dreary,features from the mac os system were copied.If there was any appeal to vista that has been lost as more people have realised they’ve done there money on a flop system.

        ta mick

    • #2519213

      as predicted months ahead vista security is

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      worse than xpSo all that who ha about vista
      being so secure is balderdash
      ta mick

      • #2519212

        as predicted by me months ago that vista is going to be a

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to as predicted months ahead vista security is

        net hog is now true.Due to vista using different protocols to access the net .Isps are reporting a slow down in internet traffic.Vista hogs resources& slows everything down.
        to boot.
        ta mick

        • #2519210

          well the name is richard it may as well have been that

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to as predicted by me months ago that vista is going to be a

          dopey michael (dickhead richard)snr herid.
          Microsoft pressures testers after software leak
          advertisementElizabeth Montalbano, IDG News Service

          13/04/2007 12:01:01

          Microsoft is taking tough measures to find out who leaked a Community Technology Preview (CTP) of Windows Home Server to The Hotfix.net blog after the software preview was posted on the site by a user named “Richard” soon after it was released to a small group of testers.

          In a email to testers obtained by the IDG News Service, the Windows Home Server community lead at Microsoft, Kevin Beares, wrote to Most Valuable Professionals (MVPs) whose name contain “Richard” that they would not have access to the beta until he found out who leaked the software to The Hotfix.net site. MVP is a title Microsoft gives people who are active and helpful in communities for Microsoft’s different product groups, and many MVPs end up being early testers of products.

          “For right now, you have no access to the beta until I can find the Richard who posted the WHS (Windows Home Server) CTP on this site,” the email said. “I will work with the Connect Admin team to determine which one of you is the real culprit of this leak.” Beares apologised for having to punish all MPVs with the name “Richard” by withholding the CTP, and said if the person who posted the release “comes clean” he may “have some discretion as to what actions I take”.

          Windows Home Server is a new version of the Windows OS that lets users set up secure networks of PCs at home so they can share and store media files. A Beta 2 of the software is available now, and the final release is expected to ship before the end of the year. The owner of the Hotfix.net site who works as a quality assurance manager for a Bellevue, Washington-based software company, Ethan Allen, said that Microsoft also contacted him to ask him to remove the Windows Home Server CTP from his site. He said it has been moved from the main site to a private download page.

          Allen said he has caught flak from Microsoft since he posted fixes that he claimed would be in Windows Vista Service Pack 1 on his site last week. The company asked him to take down the software pack, which he did. However, Microsoft had been on his case about other things, he said, the CTP of Windows Home Server amongst them..

          He said that Microsoft had “spies” in the forums on the Hotfix.net in an attempt to find out who was leaking software previews on his site. Microsoft also asked him to provide the names of who was leaking Microsoft files to his site, but he said he declined to do so.

          A spokesperson from Microsoft’s public relations firm said she was unaware of Beares’ email or that the CTP was posted on The Hotfix.net site, but she would look into the situation with Microson

        • #2531645

          in it’s rush to develop windows vista ms has literally

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well the name is richard it may as well have been that

          thrown out the baby with the bath water.
          in what has been called a woefull performance,Vista?s development cycle has suffered some serious, well-documented problems. Group projects with that many internal difficulties and delays rarely turn out well. To make matters worse, many features that were to be included in Vista, such as the WinFS file system, were cut. Add that to Vista?s high system requirements, and many users have decided not to buy the expensive new hardware needed to run an expensive, unproven & slow operating system, especially one with such widespread developmental woes. The tech world has changed drastically since the days of DOS and Windows 95, and it may no longer be possible for a single company to enjoy near-ubiquity in all aspects of computing.
          tra mick

        • #2531643

          the death knell for vista has been spelt out

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to in it’s rush to develop windows vista ms has literally

          Vista Flops More Woes Ahead
          By Wire Service |
          The new Windows OS has flopped. Sales are down over 58 percent with 89 percent of businesses surveyed by SHN claiming that they will not upgrade this year. Also hurting Microsoft is the lack of third party drivers with many organisations and consumers realising that under Vista they cannot run key business or entertainment software.
          The initial sell through data on the new Microsoft Windows Vista indicates the new operating system did not sell as well as Windows XP, A lot of dell & xp customers selling vista reported to be buying windows vista preinstalled but many wanting xp instead.
          The NPD Group’s weekly retail point-of-sale data analysis for Vista’s launch week showed unit shipments down 58.9 percent and dollar sales down 32.1 percent compared with the comparable period for Windows XP’s launch, reported Chris Swenson, NPD’s software analysis director.

          However, NPD found hardware sales for that same week were up 67 percent compared with the same period in 2006. While the research firm believes some of this increase reflects normal growth, much of it can be attributed to Vista.

          Retailers also noted an immediate hardware sales increase.

          “We’re pleased with the initial sales of Windows Vista software and computers running the new operating system. During the first week of sales said one major retailer who saw a spike in computer and software sales,” said Virginia Hodges, the chain’s home and business technology. “We expect sales of the software and computers running the new operating system to increase over the next few months as more consumers experience Windows Vista.”

          Steve Baker, NPD’s industry analysis VP, had stated that there was a fall-off in PC sales in the weeks leading up to Vista’s release, demonstrating that consumers were holding off until they could get a Vista-equipped PC.

          “Sales had slowed leading up to the release of Vista. Customers were probably holding off purchasing new PCs until the launch, although in October, Microsoft did offer free upgrades on systems purchased prior to the rollout,” confirmed Paulette Brown, business development director for RCS Computer Experience.

          She added that RCS experienced a 300 percent increase in PC sales year-over-year for the weeks starting Jan. 30. Brown couched that statement saying the store only had a limited number of PCs available last year.

          “Office Depot is pleased with the performance of Microsoft Vista and Microsoft Office software to date,” said Linda Boykin, the company’s divisional merchandising manager “Initial indications are showing a smooth platform transition for customers, and sales traffic has been meeting our expectations.”

          Amazon.com said Vista-based Sony, Toshiba and Hewlett-Packard computers dominated its top sellers list after Jan. 30 and the company saw a healthy number of customers place pre-orders on Jan. 28 and this activity greatly increased after Jan. 30.

          The Microsoft Office 2007 Vista was Amazon’s No. 2 best-selling software title still in late February with the Vista Premium selling far below in the 25 slot.

          It appears Microsoft and the various vendors did a good job informing consumers on whether their computer could handle Vista.

          “One week after the launch, we’ve only heard from three customers in total about problems loading Vista onto their PCs, mostly relating to a wireless driver issue,” said RCS’ Brown.

          Steve Wandler, CEO of the YourTechOnline a Web-based customer support firm, said Vista has not caused a spike in support calls, although some customers have complained the memory- and processor-hungry operating system is slowing down their PCs general operation.
          ta mick

    • #2530631

      people think that upgrading to vista will solve their problems

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      The trap that a lot of people fall into is thinking that an upgrade to a newer version of a piece of software will speed things up. Ms & others mention “improved performance” or make some similar claim, but back in the real world where you and I live, I rarely see this work out. If you’ve PC has problems running XP, going up to Vista is unlikely to be the answer. If your system is sluggish running, say, Photoshop CS2, CS3 isn’t going to be the magic speed bullet you’ve been waiting for. If the company couldn’t write tight code last time, what makes you think they can do it now? Similarly, registry cleaners and memory booster software isn’t going to bring that smile back to your face. If your PC is struggling, ignore the hype and snake oil and save the money you were going to spend on software and put it towards new hardware.

      Trying to measure stability is also just as useless a metric as boot time. Just as I’ve seen two functionally identical PCs have wildly different boot times, I’ve seen identical PCs have wildly different levels of stability. This is why I’m always skeptical about PC reviews. You have to put the review (along with any associated benchmark) in the context of other similar reviews, discard reviews that follow different methodologies (even slight differences can have a huge impact on results), and then take everything you read with a pinch of salt and expect your real-world experiences to be different from what the reviews led you to expect.
      good luck
      mick

    • #2530627

      people think that upgrading to vista will solve their problems

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      JUST as the nation?s top tax collector Michael D?Ascenzo announced aggressive new targets to get people to lodge returns electronics, the Australian Taxation Office says it has been hit by Microsoft Windows Vista compatibility problems.
      The ATO has been one of the most advanced Federal departments in developing and deploying web applications and web services to simplify tax compliance for both individuals and businesses ? largely through its $450 million Change Program.

      Last year, 90 per cent of taxpayers lodged returns electronically, and as Tax Commissioner Mr D?Ascenzo had set a target for this year of boosting electronic returns to 95 per cent of taxpayers.

      But the target ? set last month ? has already been given a setback with the ATO reporting a series of problems for both individual taxpayers and businesses in getting Microsoft?s new Windows Vista applications to work with its back office systems.

      The Vista problems are ironic for the ATO, which has worked hand-in-glove with Microsoft on its online services and web services back-end systems for the past five years.

      The ATO was one of the first major users to throw its weight behind Microsoft?s .NET architecture as a Beta customer, and Microsoft used Tax as a global reference site in the early days of .Net release.

      The ATO has now published the Vista problems on its website. The problems relate largely to accessing and updating electronic forms.

      The ATO said:

      electronic forms are placed in a temporary location and will be automatically erased by Windows Vista. This means the user could lose all of their saved electronic forms
      The ATO record-keeping evaluation tool can still be used with Vista, but users will be unable to access the help application
      The personal tax record keep will work with Vista, but only with reduced useability ? and some text can become scrambled
      When using the facilitated lodgement tools with Vista the users? portal activity statement will not be pre-populated with their information.

      The ATO has issued work-arounds for most of the problems and said that Microsoft had been made aware of the issues.

      Despite the issues, Mr D?Ascenzo told a conference of tax specialists at Queensland University last month that the Change Program was on track, and that the change program Release 2 work ? where it implemented Siebel Case Management and Work Management systems had been a resounding success.

      The ATO?s independent assurer Cap Gemini said the project was the largest Siebel case management roll out anywhere in the world.
      ta mick

    • #2529596

      VISTA IS A PIECE OF S**T

      by downeypenry ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      VIST BASIC IS’NT EVEN WORTH BUYING BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE THE ADMINISTRATER TO DO ANY THING AND NOTHING IS COMPATIBLE OVER ALL I WOULD STRONGLY NOT RECOMENT THIS VISTA IS AND STUPID PEICE OF BULL S**T

      • #2541541

        you’ve seen for what it is

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to VISTA IS A PIECE OF S**T

        vista is a pile of shit.A lot of people like michael hereid snr or hal or george won’t comment they’ve hidden like the proverbial ostrich head in the sand they are afraid to admit that i was right about vista & they owe me a big apology.
        Vista is much slower than xp.vista is slower
        in some cases as by 10 %.
        ta mick

        • #2542333

          apple fails to fix vista problems

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to you’ve seen for what it is

          Apple’s latest update to the PC-version of its iTunes music software fails to address a number of compatibility issues with Microsoft’s Windows Vista operating system, Apple concedes.
          In a bulletin posted Monday on its Web site, Apple said the new iTunes 7.1 software fixes a number of unspecified Windows Vista-compatibility issues but leaves several potentially major problems unresolved. “Apple is actively working with Microsoft to resolve a few remaining known issues,” the bulletin states.

          In the meantime, iTunes users wishing to run the software on Microsoft’s newest operating system still need to be aware of some serious glitches, Apple states. Among them: Ejecting an Apple iPod digital music player from a PC by using Vista’s “Safely Eject Hardware” feature may result in corruption of the iPod.

          Apple says users need to be sure and select the “Eject iPod” button from within iTunes to disconnect their iPod from a Vista PC.

          Apple also warns that iTunes 7.1 may incorrectly display text and graphics when running on Windows Vista-equipped desktop or laptop. Additionally, contacts from the Windows Address Book may not correctly synch with an iPod. Finally, Apple warns that iTunes remains completely unsupported on 64-bit versions of Windows Vista.

          ta mick

        • #2542330

          vista an uneasy sleeper

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to apple fails to fix vista problems

          Emmy King writes
          “‘One thing we just can’t wrap our mind about is the terrible, broken, and completely pitiful support for waking Vista up from a Deep Sleep or hibernation.’ Any time you attempt to wake Vista up from Hibernation or “Deep Sleep” (S3-induced sleep mode), it dies. It’s either a BSOD, or a driver error, or a broken network, no DWM, lack of sound… the list goes on, and on. So much for an operating system to “power” the future! (No pun intended!) That’s with properly-signed drivers and no buggy software on multiple PCs…”
          ta mick

        • #2542326

          more vista compatibility problems

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista an uneasy sleeper

          An anonymous reader writes
          “Microsoft says there are over 1,000 applications you can run on Windows Vista with few, if any, issues. However, Windows apps number in the tens of thousands. Add to that the facts that x64 Vista versions don’t support legacy 16-bit code, and that the Windows Resource Protection in Vista breaks some apps, and you’ve got a big issue. InformationWeek lists a host of workarounds in How To Manage Windows Vista Application Compatibility. Among the tips discussed are Vista’s compatibility mode, its Program Compatibility Assistant wizard, and a little-known form of file and registry virtualization that’s built into the OS. What problems have you encountered with incompatible apps, and are any issues you’ve encountered deal-breakers that could further roil the already muddied adoption picture for Vista?”

          ta mick

    • #2542902

      to the walking sheep class that includes michael hereid junior

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      ms has just admitted that vista is a complete dud.
      The Inquirer’s Charlie Demerjian has some interesting insight to recent actions by Dell and Microsoft…
      “With two overlapping events, Microsoft admitted what we have been saying all along, Vista, aka Windows MeII, is a joke that no one wants. It did two unprecedented things this week that frankly stunned us.

      Dell announced that it would be offering XP again on home PCs. The second that Vista came out, Microsoft makes it very hard for you to sell anything other than MeII. It can’t do this on the business side because it would be laughed out the door, but for the walking sheep class, well, you take what you are shovelled.”
      He goes on to mention the $3 government purchased student bundle program Bill Gates recently announced in Beijing, citing the combination of events as a sure sign that MS is not as powerful as it once was. MS is a company with deep pockets and has demonstrated the ability to change if it so desires, so we shall see what lessons MS learns from this.

      ta mick

      • #2542901

        I HAVE BEEN TOTALLY VINDICATED MS ADMITS

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to to the walking sheep class that includes michael hereid junior

        to vista failure!!.As Bart Simpson would say eat my shorts!!
        Microsoft admits Vista failure

        Actions speak louder than PR

        By Charlie Demerjian in Beijing: Saturday 21 April 2007, 12:20

        WITH TWO OVERLAPPING events, Microsoft admitted what we have been saying all along, Vista, aka Windows Me Two (Me II), is a joke that no one wants.
        It did two unprecedented things this week that frankly stunned us.

        Dell announced that it would be offering XP again on home PCs. The second that Vista came out, Microsoft makes it very hard for you to sell anything other than Me II. It can’t do this on the business side because it would be laughed out the door, but for the walking sheep class, well, you take what you are shovelled.

        This is classic abusive monopoly behaviour, Microsoft wrote the modern book on it. It pulled all the major OEMs in by twisting their arms with the usual methods, and they again all fell into line. Never before has anyone backpedalled on this, to do so would earn you the wrath of Microsoft.

        But Dell just did. This means that Me II sales are at least as bad as we think, the software and driver situation is just as miserable, and Dell had no choice but to buck the trend. If anyone thinks this is an act of atonement for foisting such a steaming pile on us, think again, it doesn’t care about the consumer.

        What happened is, the OEMs revolted in the background and forced Microsoft’s hand. This is a big neon sign above Me II saying ‘FAILURE’. Blink blink blink. OK, Me II won’t fail, Microsoft has OEMs whipped and threatened into a corner, it will sell, but you can almost hear the defectors marching toward Linux. This is a watershed.

        The other equally monumental Me II failure? Gates in China launching a $3 version of bundled XP. Why is this not altruism? Well, it goes back to piracy and how it helped enforce the MS monopoly. If you can easily pirate Windows, Linux has no price advantage, they both cost zero.

        With Me II, Microsoft made it very hard to pirate. It is do-able, you can use the BIOS hack and probably a host of others, but the point is, it raised the bar enough so lots of people have to buy it. Want to bet that in a country with $100 average monthly salary, people aren’t going to shell out $299 for Me II Broken Edition?

        What did MS do? It dropped the price about 100x or so. I can’t say this is unprecedented, when it made Office 2003 hard to pirate it had to backpedal with the student edition for about $150. This time though, things are much more desperate.

        If you fit Microsoft’s somewhat convoluted definition of poor, it still wants to lock you in, you might get rich enough to afford the full-priced stuff someday. It is at a dangerous crossroads, if its software bumps up the price of a computer by 100 per cent, people might look to alternatives.

        That means no Me II DRM infection lock in, no mass migration to the newer Office obfuscated and patented file formats, and worse yet, people might utter the W word. Yes, you guessed it, ‘why’. People might ask why it is sticking with the MS lock in, and at that point, it is in deep trouble.

        So, it did the unthinkable, and dropped the price. I won’t bother to hunt down all the exec quotes saying how people can’t afford clean water would be overjoyed to sell kidneys to upgrade to the new version of Office, but they are out there. This was a sacred cow, and it is now hamburger backed up against the wall.

        These two actions by Microsoft are proof of what I suggested three years ago. Microsoft has lost its ability to twist arms, and now it is going to die. It can’t compete on level ground, so is left with backpedalling and discounts of almost 100 times.

        What we are seeing is an unprecedented shift of power. It is also an unprecedented admission of failure. And the funniest part about the moves made? They are the wrong things to do. Microsoft is in deep trouble.
        ta mick I was right

        • #2528712

          As usual you open your mouth and stick your foot in it

          by michael l hereid sr ·

          In reply to I HAVE BEEN TOTALLY VINDICATED MS ADMITS

          Looks like a lot of people disagree with you.
          http://abcnews.go.com/Business/IndustryInfo/story?id=3091665&page=1
          The one’s who agree’s with you are either linux fanatics or those who do not investigate ALL that is needed for Vista to give a great experiance. 3 of my computers are running Vista very nicely, the 4th is running WHS but thaqt’s another story.
          THIS is the last time I post on this thread because of you and your continuos saying Vista is a DUD with no real proof.
          Michael L Hereid Sr

          PS get yur head out of the ground and see the real world.

        • #2529080

          ps that was the previous time that you said you won’t reply!!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to As usual you open your mouth and stick your foot in it

          NO ONE HAS SAID YOU CAN’T INSTALL & OPERATE VISTA.Independent tests have revealed that it is a dud that is,it performs much slower than xp in as much as 10 %.
          What proof do you need it is ME 2 revisited.
          Ms has produced a bloated dud.I have investigated it others have investigated it & we have stated that is a dud .Ms has come to the fore it has admitted that it is a dud & now they are selling XP instead of Vista.
          Both HP & Dell have been directed to sell XP instead.I’m using XP & so is everybody else!I don’t give a stuff about
          Linux or Mac or other Os.I like XP.
          The proof is in the testing & MS coming to the fore at long last.Also I have just found major faults in the vista indexing
          problems as well.Where as XP corrects all indexing errors.There are instances where
          Vista ignores indexing errors & there comes
          waiting times & problems.
          As to the my head in the sand I thought it was the other way around.You have been renamed OSTRICH HEAD on this thread.
          What proof does one need??Have fun playing with ME2.
          Ps a lot of people(decent)have tried vista & they have gone back To XP!!!
          Wake up to yourself.You won’t admit it even if Bill Gates told you in person.
          Michael you are like a lot of sleeping sheep.
          Where are you & where is your comment to say you have tested anything with vista.
          I have tested it & have found major faults
          with indexing errors!
          Whose head is in the sand your’s or mine.
          I think you’ll comment when you realise i’m right the evidence is there wake up!!
          cheers mick
          Ps who gives a shit if you don’t reply no one is forcing you to comment!!

        • #2529077

          To Michael Hereid

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ps that was the previous time that you said you won’t reply!!

          You article is a lot of crap.If you bother to read the middle references youll see.
          Federal Agency Bans Microsoft Vista
          Department of Transportation Bans Microsoft Vista From Computers, Citing Cost, CompatibilityThe Associated Press WASHINGTONMar 22, 2007 (AP)
          Font Size

          E-mail
          Print At least two federal government agencies are refusing to upgrade their computers with Microsoft Corp.’s Windows Vista operating system, citing concern over costs and compatibility issues.

          In a Jan. 19 memo to staff, Dan Mintz, the Transportation Department’s chief information officer, imposed an “indefinite moratorium” on upgrading desktop and laptop computers with the new operating system, Office 2007 and Internet Explorer 7.

          Mintz wrote that there is “no compelling technical or business case” to upgrade to the new products and specific reasons not to upgrade.

          He cited hardware, software and labor costs, compatibility issues with current applications and limited funding. He also wrote technology staff will be busy with the agency’s move to a new headquarters.

          The memo says the software only may be acquired for testing purposes and only with the CIO’s approval.

          Microsoft did not return calls seeking comment.
          Also Michael

          Stocks stumble on Microsoft Vista viewBy Jennifer Coogan
          Feb 16, 2007
          Font Size

          E-mail
          Print NEW YORK (Reuters) – U.S. stocks fell on Friday after Microsoft Corp. tempered revenue expectations for the Vista computer operating system.

          Already battered home builder shares got another dose of bad news as data showed weaker-than-expected housing starts last month, sending the Dow Jones Home Builder index <.DJUSHB> down 1.3 percent.

          Related Content
          US Air posts profit, revenue outlook hits sharesUK may vote against transatlantic air pact: sourcesContinental, American Balk at Pilot Rest Rules: ReportMicrosoft Chief Executive Steve Balmer said late on Thursday analysts’ revenue forecasts for Vista were “overly aggressive.” For details, see . Shares of Microsoft were the top-weighted decliner on the Dow, S&P 500 and the Nasdaq 100.

          “Microsoft can’t catch a break. We’re at 20 million shares in volume already – that’s not your grandmother trading,” said Cummins Catherwood, managing director at Rutherford, Brown & Catherwood in Philadelphia. “Those hedge funds can’t deal with disappointment. They can’t afford to wait for the impact to dissipate.”

          The Dow Jones industrial average <.DJI> was down 7.93 points, or 0.06 percent, at 12,757.08. The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index <.SPX> was down 3.86 points, or 0.26 percent, at 1,452.95. The Nasdaq Composite Index <.IXIC> was down 10.61 points, or 0.42 percent, at 2,486.49.

          Microsoft shares were down 2.2 percent to $28.81 on the Nasdaq.

          AMR Corp. shares moved choppily after BusinessWeek magazine reported that the parent of American Airlines might be a buyout target of a group including British Airways and Goldman Sachs . But sources familiar with the matter said the British airline and the U.S. investment bank have no current plans to bid for AMR .

          AMR shares rose 11 percent to $41.90 before the opening bell, but the stock shed some of that gain, adding just 2.2 percent to $38.89 on the NYSE.

          In other M&A news, BBVA , Europe’s eighth-biggest bank by market capitalization agreed to buy U.S. bank Compass Bancshares Inc. for $9.6 billion .
          Also Michael you don’t like to comment well cause you are a lazy son of a bitch!!
          ta mick

        • #2522701

          well michael heres one back at you just the facts

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to As usual you open your mouth and stick your foot in it

          Bill Gates given a grilling by NPR’s Alex Chadwick about Vista and OS X
          Filed under: Politics, strategy and culture , Software

          Alex Chadwick, thank you for asking Bill Gates the questions that everyone else was too star-struck to ask.

          NPR runs a show called Day to Day that does long-format pieces on topics of the day. One of the topics chosen for 1/30/07 was the official retail launch of Vista. Bill Gates included Day to Day on his Vista launch promotional tour, and he didn’t get the glad-handing he expected.

          What he got was a grilling from NPR veteran Alex Chadwick, who has always been on my short list of gifted interviewers. He is well tuned-in to the unspun realities of Vista and OS X. He disregarded the talking points that Microsoft hands out for interviews and used his own homework. I expected nothing less when I heard his name on this story.

          I’m fond of Gates for his philanthropic work, and I take no pleasure in seeing or hearing him squirm. But I’ve gotten so tired of Microsoft deflecting criticism that Vista lacks imagination except for the decision to lift (usually poorly) features from Tiger. It was a pleasure to hear Chadwick carry that challenge all the way to the top. Microsoft was given no place to hide from the questions that those without Microsoft’s ear have been asking with nothing but scripted responses coming from Microsoft.
          Even though Bill Gates announced that vista was completely differeent to other versions
          & it may not function properly with a partiocular software in other words vista is a flop or a dud!!

        • #2522699

          recognition problems in vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well michael heres one back at you just the facts

          CD burnt on Vista are having problem recognizing in Windows XP. It says file is corrupted, etc. .. Ha Ha.. wasted two CDs.. They really need to think again.

          well there you have it

        • #2522697

          heres one back at you michael just the facts

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to recognition problems in vista

          one user comments,jaelha Says:I bought a new HP Media Center with Vista Home Premium. I don?t run into a LOT of the same problems as above, but yes, there are problems. Does Microsoft not release the Vista syatem to software companies prior to its public release? It would be nice if the programs we all want to use had updated drivers ready for us to install?.A simple thing like downloading a JPEG file was a problem. It said Windows does not support this format. It?s a JPEG! And the whole ?Cancel or Allow? thing is quite irritating to even have included in the OS. If I didn?t want to give permission to open a program, I wouldn?t have clickd on it to begin with. Why does it ask me for premission to open my own programs? I?m still holding onto my faith in this n OS, ut in the back of my mind I remember that the store I bought it from will take it back with no questions asked. They specifically told me so?I bet they?ve taken back a few.
          thats it

        • #2522695

          well michael you asked for it just the facts

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to recognition problems in vista

          from one user.
          kelokera Says:people are so blind? do you like vista just for those ?GREAT?effects? install suse 10.1 or run kororaa and yu wll see effects that will blow your mind, and you dont neet to pay 600 dollars for a 8800 gtx or 250 for a copy of the worst os ever created? linux is free, works better and can run in any computer? about performance? i dont remember where.. but i read a article where they compare vista and xp? the result? THE SAME THING!!! but the only different? you need a super computer to run vista? make you a favor? before you buy vista try it? there are a lots of torrents over there? download a copy and try the 30 days, install all stuff you thing you will use and put this crap to work as i did? windows vista is a crap!!! DON?T BUY IT!!!

        • #2522694

          just the facts another user michael

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well michael you asked for it just the facts

          Windows VISTA is a DUD!
          I wonder if Microsoft knows this?
          I went out and purchased a copy of vista first week in February after reading online hype about how great it is. Its far from great its complete garbage thats right garbage! And I paid $168 for it. Would wal-mart refund me? NO! I called Microsoft would they refund me? NO! I have a dual core AMD CPU and doing nothing but being at the desktop I watched the CPU usage climb to 100% Wow whats going on? RAM usage 700 to 800MB WOW WHAT A HOG! good thing I have 2GB DDR2 this is completely uncalled for! What a joke what a beast what a hog! In my honest opinion id say you need at least 4GB of RAM to make it run efficient. Forget about what you have now it wont run in Vista your printer,digital camera,GPU card,software,programs. heck half the buttons on my HP keyboard refused to work NO JOKE! Im so serious

        • #2522693

          another one at you michael

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well michael you asked for it just the facts

          Too many people are experiencing driver problems, software issues, compatibility issues, and hardware issues for this to be some kind of a fluke. And if you can?t use your computer to get things done, well, it doesn?t matter how pretty it looks. Or how many new features you throw in.

          It is unbelievable it took five years to achieve this and the results are disappointing to say the least.
          Where are the OEM hardware manufacturers? I can?t believe it is taking so long for them to come up with Vista compliant drivers. Is it they suspected that Vista would be a dud?
          For the amount of money people are spending for the new OS, I don?t think it is unreasonable for them to expect it to work. At least be on par with XP, or we had all hoped it would surpass XP. This does not seem to be the case.
          well i warned you did’nt i
          ta mick

        • #2522692

          for you michael

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well michael you asked for it just the facts

          If there has ever been a time for other operating systems to make their move, this must be it. Unless Microsoft pulls a rabbit out of its hat, Vista may go down in history as the software that brought down a mighty empire.

          Drastic statement? Maybe. But people are not going to lay down their hard-earned money for something that doesn?t work. Plain and simple. Hopefully the first service pack may fix the problems. Only time will tell.

          i warned you

        • #2522691

          this one is for you michael

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well michael you asked for it just the facts

          If there has ever been a time for other operating systems to make their move, this must be it. Unless Microsoft pulls a rabbit out of its hat, Vista may go down in history as the software that brought down a mighty empire.

          Drastic statement? Maybe. But people are not going to lay down their hard-earned money for something that doesn?t work. Plain and simple. Hopefully the first service pack may fix the problems. Only time will tell.

          i warned you

        • #2521633

          i stick to the facts where as you get emotional &runaway

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to As usual you open your mouth and stick your foot in it

          Responding to customer demand Dell has restarted selling new PCs with Windows XP installed on them. The decision reverses a policy begun in January that meant Windows Vista was the only operating system available on almost all new home machines. The change came after Dell?s feedback site was swamped with calls for the return of the venerable software.”
          aint that the truth!

        • #2521632

          why bitch because vista sux

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i stick to the facts where as you get emotional &runaway

          Hello, Microsoft, don?t you know that after some time, users will start clicking the ?Continue? button automatically? Whithout even reading the message?
          And when that happens UAC will be just another anoying useless feature of Vista?.
          Windows 98: 16mb of mem usage. Windows 2000: 60mb of mem. Windows XP: 100 meg. Windows Vista: 800 mb. Hello?!
          800 mb upon cold boot? 1gb after a minute of usage?
          Are you guys insane? I got 2gb of 667mhz memory on my laptop, and I can?t play Battlefield 2142 due to ?low memory? error messages.
          I can?t even start a descent VM with vista sucking up 1gb of RAM.
          And the aero fliker effects? I got a nVidia 7900 GS, that it?s just the best laptop card out there, and guess what happens when I minimize or maximize the IE window? FLICKER! It flicks! Flash and flicks! Arrghhh? And the blue pixel of death around every in focus Window?
          Experience: Select the pink theme. Now focus a window. See the awful blue pixel of death on the bottom and right side? Now that?s a clean and nice design.
          Do you guys guess the size of a Vista icon? 256 pixels, nice isnt it? Well, that would be nice if ALL of system DLLs have the same version of the same huge icon over and over again! I think that I know who?s using cached and system memory?.
          Oh, and Ready Bost? Just got my first Vista RTM blue screen of death! Why? ?Hardware Error – Memory Parity Check?. OMG, do you guys do parity check on a $10 SD card?!
          I?ll start praying today. If longhorn server sucks 1gb of RAM upon boot we?re doomed.
          Author: Guilherme

        • #2521630

          again at you

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to why bitch because vista sux

          after trying vista.
          Community Newsletter: Q&A: I want Vista out of my PC and XP back in, but how?
          by Lee Koo (ADMIN) – 27/04/07 13:39
          Total posts: 216 (Showing page 4 of 15) 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Back to Community Newsletter: Q&A forumTrack this thread
          Post 46 of 216Vista replacement with XP
          by johnruelle – 20/04/07 21:39
          In reply to: I want Vista out of my PC and XP back in, but how? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
          1) Assuming you have a SATA HD, switch the cable to make the Vista HD a slave drive. This way you can keep the Vista OS intact for future use.

          2) install a new SATA drive as primary drive

          3) Using your original XP disk, install XP to the master HD. You may find it easier if you disconect the power cable to the Vista drive when you install XP (the system thinks there is only one HD).

          ReplyPermalinkReport offensive postPost 47 of 216Yes, install one of the OSs on a SATA drive.
          by Golem_one – 27/04/07 20:17
          In reply to: Vista replacement with XP by johnruelle
          I temporarily disconnected the internal IDE drive and installed another copy of Windows XP on an external SATA drive in an enclosure which has SATA and USB 2 connectivity.

          I connected the external drive as an external SATA drive to the computer’s external ATA connector and installed a copy of Windows XP on that drive. I tested the new Windows XP installation and the computer booted from the external SATA drive connected as an ATA drive to the computer’s external ATA connector. Then I disconnected the external ATA drive from the computer’s external ATA connector and connected it to the computer with it’s USB 2 connection and reconnected the internal IDE drive with the original install of Windows XP on it. The computer booted via the original Windows XP installation on the internal IDE hard drive and the computer is able to use the external hard drive as a slave drive for storage. When I want to boot from the external drive, I just disconnect its USB 2 connection to the computer and reconnect it to the computer’s external SATA connector. and reboot from it. I have Windows XP on the internal IDE drive and the external SATA drive so that I have a clean copy of Windows XP on the external SATA drive in case anything screws up with the Windows XP installed on the internal IDE drive.

          My explanation is clear as mud but I hope it helps.

          ReplyPermalinkReport offensive postPost 48 of 216To XP or Not XP…..Vista is distracting.
          by Unycorn – 20/04/07 21:55
          In reply to: I want Vista out of my PC and XP back in, but how? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
          Hi Franklin,
          In the short and long of it, yes, you will need another copy of Windows XP, or you could also simply contact microsoft and purchase another license for your current copy of XP which will allow you to use it on a second machine. It will have it’s own code, but will be similar to having a duplicate copy of the software available for your own personal use. Unfortunately, that’s the way of the world, at least in the world of William “G.G.” Gates (don’t ask what the initials mean, but use your imagination). If you are MOST comfortable with WinXP, then by all means, contact Microsoft about the additional license, or if you are slightly more adventurous, you might consider giving one of the alternatives a test drive. Linux is now becoming more and more adaptive and the Plug & play community is becoming more adroit at working with odds and ends. I am uncertain of the XP additional license price, but I believe it to be around $99 (the average price of the “upgrade” version or OEM version of windows) The FULL Install version usually runs closer to $149. But, as I said, those are not facts, but simple guesses as I usually purchase and use the WinXP OEM disk when I purchase the hardware for my projects. I have little to no use for Windows business software and I find better software for database and word/note pad replacements.
          But, there you have it. According to the rules, you do indeed need to have a fresh license of the O/S.

          ReplyPermalinkReport offensive postPost 49 of 216I had a similar problem and here’e what I did…
          by Screaminlizard – 20/04/07 22:45
          In reply to: I want Vista out of my PC and XP back in, but how? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
          I run several systems here and have found a simple and effective solution that allows you to grow into Vista slowly as it develops and as drivers become available.

          Before we get into that, here are a couple things you can try to see if Vista will run your older software. After installing the software, right click on the software icon and select “run as administrator”. If this solves the problem then the issue is simply in the security protocol and can usually be fixed very easily. You can also tell this software to run in compatibility mode by right clicking on the software icon, select properties, click the compatibility tab, put a check mark in the box adjacent to the “run this program in compatibility mode for Windows XP SP2”.

          If this does not provide an adequate solution for you, the best solution is to buy a second hard drive (they are pretty cheap now)and install Windows XP on it. You probably won’t be able to use your restore CD from your previous computer because even if it installs XP properly, as soon as it tries to download the security updates from Microsoft, it will attempt to activate the OS at which point it will notice that the serial linked to your disk has already been activated to you previous system and the unique system ID associated with it. OEM software is non transferable to other systems and there is really no safe way to live without the security updates. At this point you’re really faced with having to buy a new license for XP and weigh the cost of that against replacing your peripherals.

          I would suggest keeping vista on the preinstalled drive and switch it to a secondary drive so that when you start your computer it boots to Windows XP on your primary drive. There are many advantages to doing it this way plus you’ll be able to use the secondary drive to back up your files when you use XP and vice versa when you use Vista. Eventually, you’re going to want to make the switch to Vista once the software and hardware companies catch up with their drivers etc. and this will allow you to run both platforms on separate drives. In the long term, new software made for Vista may not be backwards compatible due to the fact that Vista is not a true update to the XP platform. It’s actually based on the Windows Server platform and as a result is a much more complicated switch than you may have experienced in the past. That is also why your old hardware drivers don’t work on Vista. I really liked XP but let?s face it, a year from now everything is going to be programmed for Vista.

          By doing it this way you have two completely independent platforms that are also linked in a safe way because you can still drag and drop your files from the primary (C: drive) to your secondary (D: drive) making it easy to make the slow progression into Vista when the time comes… and it will. If you check in every once in a while for the required updates you need for your hardware and various software, you’ll eventually find everything you need to make the switch. In the meantime, you’ll have the stability of the more mature XP platform to work on.

          I hope this helps.

          ReplyPermalinkReport offensive postPost 50 of 216Don’t be so quick to blame Vista!
          by trevman71 – 20/04/07 22:46
          In reply to: I want Vista out of my PC and XP back in, but how? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
          Your programs and devices won’t run not because Vista won’t let them but rather the software developers and hardware manufacturers haven’t taken care of you, their customer by not keeping up with the change in times. Microsoft didn’t just spring Vista on the world February of 2007. Microsoft provided industry with numerous beta releases to try to prevent what you and so many other people are experiencing. Vista has been totally “code ready” since before it was released to enterprise in November 2006. There is really no excuse why the people who make your software and hardware haven’t produced the necessary patches and drivers to work properly with the best, most secure and stable operating system that the world has ever known. I applaud Microsoft for their efforts to give these vendors plenty of time to avoid this situation. Let’s please put the blame where it belongs. If you want to complain please call HP, Intuit, Symantec, Autodesk, and any other vendors whose products are only capable of working with a 5 year old operating system. Shame on them.

          Trevor Dierdorff
          President, Amnet
          Proud Microsoft Gold Certified Partner

          ReplyPermalinkReport offensive postPost 51 of 216The best most stable and secure operating system ?
          by Byteornibble – 21/04/07 11:41
          In reply to: Don’t be so quick to blame Vista! by trevman71
          Trevor,
          I can see why you might try to make excuses for Microsoft and so on.

          The truth is their system is obsolete as soon as it hits the public, and causes average users nothing but pain. Computing should be a far more pleasurable experience by now. I started with a Vic20 Commodore, and have moved through every MS/OS since DOS. I have suffered many lost weekends trying to deal with buggy software or Updates Gone Wild. I look back now, and realize that I have spent more time fixing Windows problems, than most any other activity. There are good alternatives to MS Windows–Ubuntu for example, has been running on my computer since last year without a single problem/virus/update. Compared to what I was dealing with before its a miracle. Microsoft needs to rethink their entire system quickly, and there are answers. I see them taking a big fall soon…they will probably wonder why, too.

          ReplyPermalinkReport offensive postPost 52 of 216Vista
          by WirelessDog – 27/04/07 18:42
          In reply to: Don’t be so quick to blame Vista! by trevman71
          Wow an answer pointing at other companies, go figure. What else would you expect to hear from a MS Gold partner. Duh they are all about selling you the next OS. And the patches. When MS comes out with and OS that is near bug free then you can talk about others.

          ReplyPermalinkReport offensive postPost 53 of 216Who’s at fault for vista compatability problems
          by john3347 – 27/04/07 20:49
          In reply to: Don’t be so quick to blame Vista! by trevman71
          Mr. Dierdorff obviously is not aware of a term that we used to hear from software developers – “backward compatability”. Microsoft has even been heard to utter this phrase back in Windows 3.11 and Windows 95 days. Nowdays Microsoft seems to be leading the charge to “planned obsolesence” and is deliberately phasing out compatabilities and the rest of the industry is following suit. They could have much better spent the engineering time and money to fixing the old system rather that obsoleting it.

          ReplyPermalinkReport offensive postPost 54 of 216Some problems may arise
          by Shabbadang – 20/04/07 23:04
          In reply to: I want Vista out of my PC and XP back in, but how? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
          Using your recovery disks might give you some problems. Windows XP won’t recognize you new computer’s configuration and either it won’t run at all or it will ask you to register your copy of Windows once more. The latter will also probably happen with some of your programs, typically MS Office.

          ReplyPermalinkReport offensive postPost 55 of 216Vista Sux
          by death_trooper30 – 20/04/07 23:09
          In reply to: I want Vista out of my PC and XP back in, but how? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
          I’m having the same issues. I’m probably going to load XP back up sometime next week. I’ve already noticed so many bugs and that UAC thing or whatever it is, is a joke! I have to turn it off just to connect to the internet, because it won’t give me an option of letting IE run, it just says there was an error in C++ programming or whatever, but it works fine when I turn it off!(which I have to do about once a day due to Vista turning it on without me telling it to) I absolutly hate Windows Vista, what a flop Microsoft! Whats the saying…..”if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it!!” Like u said, I had no trouble with XP!

          ReplyPermalinkReport offensive postPost 56 of 216Multiple Options
          by Jason83 – 20/04/07 23:17
          In reply to: I want Vista out of my PC and XP back in, but how? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
          The way I see it, there are a few options, depending on your system configuration.

          I doubt you can install XP over Vista, since Microsoft OS’s only usually allow an upgrade path (even though XP is like an upgrade to Vista for now, as it runs better!).

          Using the restore discs from your old PC will most undoubtedly cause XP to require authorisation from Microsoft to activate, since you are changing a lot of hardware variables. In theory, the license is for one machine, and although I have not read through it for all the fine details, it should be transferrable so long as you are no longer using it on the old machine. However, if restore discs work how I believe them to (I have no personal experiance with them; only ever used MS OEM discs) they will install all the system drivers etc that were relevant to your old machine. If this is the case, you will have to remove a lot of redundant drivers after the installation.

          Theres no harm in trying with the recovery discs, but if Microsoft can’t/ won’t autorise, or you run into other issues, you may be as well buying XP. You can get OEM copies quite cheaply. The only downside is that you won’t be eligible for Tech Support direct from Microsoft, but you can still use their forums and knowledge base for self help, and requesting advice from users. The massive saving, I find is well worth it.
          You may even be able to request a Genuine XP disc from the manufacturer of your old system. I hear some companies will supply you with a copy of XP and not just recovery discs for a little extra. You may or may not be elible for this, as some companies only offer it at time of purchase, but I recommend that you try. Just don’t let on that you will be using it for a different system, or they will most likely refuse anyway.

          You have the following options:

          * If only one hard drive in your system:

          + Backup your data (ESSENTIAL), format your hard drive, then revert to Windows XP from your recovery discs.

          or

          + Partition the hard drive and attempt to creat a dual boot system with Vista and XP (not ideal, but will give you the best of both worlds and ask you which OS to load on boot). Some people have had issues doing this on 1 HDD though, so I wouldn’t personally recommend it.

          * If you have a second hard drive:

          + Try installing XP onto the HDD that does not have Vista installed on it. I have actually done this through the Vista Beta and RC1. I still have RC1 installed on my second HDD, and my rig boots into XP by default. If you go for this option, and want XP as the default OS, you will need to boot into Vista and you can change the default OS there. You will need to go into system properties (Windows Key + Break, or right click My Computer the click properties). From there go to the advanced tab. There should be a Startup and recovery button. This opens a new tab. Top box is default operating system. Just select the XP option here click OK, then apply. When you reboot, your PC will display a list for you to choose between XP (displayed as “Older Version of Windows” or something similar), and Windows Vista. The older version should be highlighted in white, and will auto start after a few seconds (this timing can be changed in Vista where you change the default operating system, if you want to speed up the boot time. I would not recommend any shorter than 5 seconds though, since the selection screeen take 2 seconds to appear, by which time you will only have 3 seconds to select the OS).

          I would personally go for the dual boot option if you have the second HDD. That way, you can boot Vista every now and then, and check for the drivers you so desperately need. When the time comes, and Vista is right for you there will be no need to reinstall it, you can simply boot Vista and change it to the default OS once you are happy. You can then easily remove the XP install when the time comes.

          The catch with dual booting PCs is that your primary HDD with Vista on will be Drive “C” in Vista and the second HDD appears as Drive “D”. When you boot XP from the second HDD, the second HDD is seen as Drive “C” and the primary HDD with Vista on become Drive “D”. As long as you can get your head around this, it is a fine arrangement. Just thought I’d mention it in case you boot XP form a second HDD and think you have lost a folder or file; it will simply be on the other HDD.

          Hope this helps you in some way, and good luck.

          ReplyPermalinkReport offensive postPost 57 of 216solution
          by gokul8983 – 20/04/07 23:22
          In reply to: I want Vista out of my PC and XP back in, but how? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
          u have 2 first format the drive on which u have to install vista.then install vista,system drivers,now installed u r softwares properly.

          ReplyPermalinkReport offensive postPost 58 of 216Anwers for Franklin S Question
          by Evire – 20/04/07 23:27
          In reply to: I want Vista out of my PC and XP back in, but how? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
          Before you move back or restore to XP, you have to be very carefull as you might be asked to Re-Activate you XP, if a lot of change as occured to you System or Hardwares. XP will only Activate for a limited number of times and therefore, You must have a New XP Installation ready beside you. As you are in this stage, You have your own choice and that choice is your Own Risk too, therefore you shoul always read all licenced agreements before applying new softwares etc. There might be other Risk on both ideas, ie to stay with or to restore, so be ready for them.

          ReplyPermalinkReport offensive postPost 59 of 216Are you sure it’s VISTA?
          by paulreon – 20/04/07 23:31
          In reply to: I want Vista out of my PC and XP back in, but how? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
          I’m still running VISTA RC2 Build 5744. Works like a dream. Opens, lets in friends and keeps out the not so welcome. Could it be just “1st Time User” nerves?
          Try a System Restore and reload you programs and drivers. Best of luck.
          I’m running XP on my 2nd drive with dual boot selection. VISTA beats it hands down.

          ReplyPermalinkReport offensive postPost 60 of 216vista
          by daylo – 20/04/07 23:40
          In reply to: I want Vista out of my PC and XP back in, but how? by Lee Koo (ADMIN)
          split your hdd and run xp or vista when u start up or add another hdd and do the same
          good luck

        • #2521629

          vista ready can mean anything but that

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to again at you

          new PCs will show up with stickers identifying them as being “Windows Vista Capable.” But “Capable of Running Certain Versions of Windows Vista, But Maybe Not Stupendously Well” might be a more accurate designation, it seems.

          As my IDG News Service colleague Elizabeth Montalbano’s story explains, a PC can get the sticker if it has a “modern” CPU, 512MB of RAM, and a Direct 9-class graphics card. What’s a “modern” CPU? There’s no simple answer, but this Microsoft.com page links to external pages at CPU manufacturers with lists of chips that qualify. (Hmmm. the AMD list doesn’t include the Athlon XP inside my four-year-old home desktop–I guess that machine, which still runs XP fine, may never make the leap to Vista. Who knew that 2002 wasn’t part of the modern era?)

          But as Elizabeth’s story says, the Vista Capable designation doesn’t promise that a PC will provide a great Vista experience, or even that it’ll support all Vista features or features…just that it’ll be able to run Windows Vista Home Basic in some not-very-well-defined-but-apparently-adequate way.

          At the moment, there are still new PCs on store shelves that don’t meet the Vista Capable guidelines–for instance, low-end systems still sport 256MB of RAM in some cases. Wonder if that means that that A) we’ll see some cheap systems that still have XP even after Vista ships; or B) the specs on even the cheapest machines will be beefed up; or C) we’ll see machines that have Vista preloaded but which don’t qualify as Vista capable?

        • #2521628

          ms flops in china

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to why bitch because vista sux

          Only 244 copies of Genuine Windows Vista sold in China
          Microsoft spent millions of dollars advertising its next generation OS ‘Windows Vista’ in China, in fact the IT juggernaut threw up the biggest Vista Ad on the 421 meter high Jin Mao tower in Shanghai China. However after 2 weeks (Jan 19 to Feb 2) from launch Microsoft managed to sell a mere 244 copies of Windows Vista. Software piracy is rampant in the middle kingdom and a pirated version of Vista sells for a mere $1 on the streets.

        • #2521627

          facts speak for themselves

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to why bitch because vista sux

          they do don’t take my word for it.

        • #2528417

          MS has Admitted to vista failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I HAVE BEEN TOTALLY VINDICATED MS ADMITS

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by jjwm2763
          i have had windows 98 se, me, 2000, xp pro and xp x64 and i have to say vista ultimate is the most unstable os out of them all for me. bsod EVERY time i turn it on, i turn off the power and turn it back on and everything works great, i have no idea whats wrong. i duel boot with xp and vista on seperate hard drives and xp is flawless, wish i could say the same for vista.
          vista sux

        • #2528414

          vista is a failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to MS has Admitted to vista failure

          http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39087

          However good you think it is. Microsoft Vista is a failure. So much so that Dell have put XP back on their computers again. Is it case of Vista coming out too early? I think it is. With hardware lacking and the incentive to move to Vista is not very attractive. Who wants and needs to shell out the high cost of Vista for worse performance and no real directX10 games to make you want to buy this. No ATI cards for you to play the DirectX10 games on. Well who blames us for sticking with XP for the time being

        • #2528413

          failure of vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista is a failure

          Yea that maybe true about Dell, point taken Ian. But I hardly think MicroSoft would
          admit to Vista flopping. Within time, Vista will be tweaked by MS and the supprt from
          Hardware & Software will get stronger as each day passes. XP’s had its day, it’s
          an old OS that needs to go, and soon it will.

          You have to remember that Vista only came out in Jan this year. I think personally
          there’s been a lack of support from Hard/software companies, they’ve been far too
          complacent. I’ve had Vista since it was released and I’ve experienced flawless
          performace, although at the start, most games did not like Vista. Now though, I have
          almost all the games I have running beautifully, apart from NFS MW & Carbon
          (carbon doesn’t work on my Vista Premium 64Bit) although it does on 32Bit.
          This’s to do with EA and not MS.

        • #2528409

          ms fails on vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to failure of vista

          However good you think it is. Microsoft Vista is a failure. So much so that Dell have put XP back on their computers again. Is it case of Vista coming out too early? I think it is. With hardware lacking and the incentive to move to Vista is not very attractive. Who wants and needs to shell out the high cost of Vista for worse performance and no real directX10 games to make you want to buy this. No ATI cards for you to play the DirectX10 games on. Well who blames us for sticking with XP for the time being.

        • #2528405

          to michael another one just the facts

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms fails on vista

          However cool you think it is to hate Microsoft, it isn’t. It makes you a tool. Thanks to modern hardware (which is anything but lacking), Intel’s own GMA950 Integrated graphics can run Windows Vista WITH Aero. It also happens that Intel’s integrated graphics chips are the worst, options from ATI, Nvidia, SiS, Via, and S3 are much much better in performance. Who blames you for sticking to XP for the time being?

          Nobody.

          But I can and will blame you for posting internet waste like “Microsoft Vista is a failure.”, and depending on some lame and blatantly incorrect article (Windows “ME II” doesn’t come with the Student Innovation Suite, Mr. Demerjian, Windows XP Starter Edition does — I’m glad you did your research like any other self-respecting and credible publication) from a notoriously anti-Microsoft website to support your ineptly-typed, one paragraph “point.” Good day, sir.
          Post Edited On: Apr 22, 2007, 12:46am EDT

        • #2528404

          another one just the facts

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms fails on vista

          It’s true Dell is putting XP back on its computers after Customers demands.

          The concept there is simple: a budget Dell can’t haul Vista ass… Vista simply sits on it and it becomes a worthless pile of plastic and PCBs. They are complaining because Dell was stupid enough to put it on there in the first place and as a result, they are probably getting lawsuit threats from lawyers. It’s Dell’s fault for not offering Vista on mainstream-enthusiasts computers only, not Microsoft’s. The Inquirer was just playing spin doctor, as usual, with their typical anti-Microsoft rhetoric.

          Vista on a budget system is like trying to haul an elephant with a half-ton truck…

        • #2528400

          complete failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms fails on vista

          Of course, the other explanations are that people just want it but of course, Stvve Ballmer wouldn’t admit to that … just like the pent up demand for the Zune is enormous or that Nintendo sold more machines in 2 months than they were able to in a year … NOT HIS FAULT! Just like under his watch they’ve failed at everything from watch Oses to MSn to webtv but NOT HIS FAULT. He’s just the CEO who’s made $10 billion from the stock. It’s someone else, damn you – it’s always someone else

        • #2528389

          complete failuresta sux too much

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms fails on vista

          However, it is resource-hungry and it has absolutely no new features. Unless you call non-existing CableCard and Aero new features.

          Actually it does. It has many new features, just many that most don’t “need” or use, which is the main problem. I also wouldn’t call Aero “non-existing”. It very existing.

          Among the other features new that you likely don’t use or “need”…

          Backup and Restore Center
          Windows Calendar
          Windows Photo Gallery
          Windows DVD Maker
          Shadow Copy
          Windows SideShow
          ReadyBoost
          ReadyDrive
          DirectX 10
          BitLocker
          Windows Defender
          Flip 3D
          New Windows Search
          Etc

        • #2528388

          thanks but vista still is a failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms fails on vista

          It works, except for some devices and their drivers as you mentioned.

          However, it is resource-hungry and it has absolutely no new features. Unless you call non-existing CableCard and Aero new features.

          I have assembled two new HTPCs recently.

          I have several Vista licenses available.

          I installed XP on both of my new HTPCs

        • #2528386

          but vista still is a failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms fails on vista

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by galileo2000
          It is not horrible at all.

          It works, except for some devices and their drivers as you mentioned.

          However, it is resource-hungry and it has absolutely no new features. Unless you call non-existing CableCard and Aero new features.

          I have assembled two new HTPCs recently.

          I have several Vista licenses available.

          I installed XP on both of my new HTPCs.

          To add to the list of flaws in what you’re saying, at the time of RC1, I had Vista running fine, with Aero features enabled, with 512 megs of ram. In RC2, MS seemingly arbitrarily decided to make Aero not work with 512 megs ram, though it is supposedly possible to hack it to work.

          My computer is nowhere near being fast anymore. Its a AMD Athlon XP 2700, 1024 megs ram, and the newest part in my PC is a refurbished AGP ATI x800xl. Not once have I felt that Vista was slowing down my computer compared to XP or hogging my resources. In case my last post about it wasn’t clear, I could never go back to XP, and I entirely blame the hardware manufacturers for waiting until the last minute, for any issues I have had.

        • #2528383

          so much so that it is a failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms fails on vista

          All the new features now native to Vista were all available to XP as third party software so not new or revolutionary just MS doing their best to be the only software company on the planet which is not good for us at all. BTW all these features work better in XP than the implementation MS has built for 5+ years which should be called a failure.

          On the topic of drivers issues, MS should have done a better job of working with the hardware companies on building their drivers. I think that is MS’s job when writing drivers for Vista is so different then anything else before it.

          So it can said that MS has failed initially with Vista, but ultimately they will succeed because they have so much power which is why there is so much acrimony toward them for this. Any who disagrees with this doesn’t see the facts about it and is letting their love or emotion cloud their judgment.

        • #2528381

          so that it is a failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms fails on vista

          All the new features now native to Vista were all available to XP as third party software so not new or revolutionary just MS doing their best to be the only software company on the planet which is not good for us at all. BTW all these features work better in XP than the implementation MS has built for 5+ years which should be called a failure.

          On the topic of drivers issues, MS should have done a better job of working with the hardware companies on building their drivers. I think that is MS’s job when writing drivers for Vista is so different then anything else before it.

          So it can said that MS has failed initially with Vista, but ultimately they will succeed because they have so much power which is why there is so much acrimony toward them for this. Any who disagrees with this doesn’t see the facts about it and is letting their love or emotion cloud their judgment.

        • #2528380

          why not indeed

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms fails on vista

          I do think that people need to realize something about Vista:

          The transition to it from earlier operating systems was supposed to be an A to B type of thing. Backward compatibility was NOT very high up on the list of priorities (which is why I don’t use it). Microsoft’s idea was that those who bought a PC before Vista’s release date would stay with XP, and that everyone who bought a PC after Vista’s release would have Vista (but now Dell has gone against Microsoft’s plan). This way they wouldn’t need to add support in XP for something like DX10, and they wouldn’t need to add support in Vista for all the hardware and software that isn’t designed for Vista. Upon Vista’s release date, development of software for older operating systems would slow down to a halt and everyone would develop for Vista. Those who want to be sure hardware and software from after Vista’s release date works would need to buy a Vista compatible computer. This made it much easier for Microsoft to develop Vista. XP is like the New York City of operating systems. Instead of trying to accommodate for all the current residents, Microsoft just opened up a new town in Vermont called Vista. While Vista may have a water park, lower taxes, and armed guards making sure no one jeopardizes the security of the town or tries to copy from books in the Library, that doesn’t mean it is better than New York City, which is already well established. In the computer world, backwards compatibility is a good thing, and Vista is completely against it.

        • #2521533

          13 Replies?

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to MS has Admitted to vista failure

          While I am no fan of Vista at all, why have you posted 13 posts in the space of merely 45 minutes time? Talking a lot does not make you right and the more you do so the more I doubt you even believe what you are saying. If you really believe what you are saying, don’t rant and rave like you’re having a temper tantrum, just tell it once…..speaking of it over and over and over is only destroying your own view point to others. Maybe you feel better having wasted all this time for months on here cursing Vista but you have protested too much. Now it is not credible, more like a Narcissistic Personality (Google it).

        • #2521445

          he must be either unemployed or …..

          by lasersteel ·

          In reply to 13 Replies?

          …paid by the government – otherwise he would hare been fired by now for gross misconduct if he was working for business wasting bandwidth time and energy.

          He cant have a real job surely!

        • #2523999

          you have no idea really why bother to converse on this

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to he must be either unemployed or …..

          thread no idea at all.Your type of comments do not auger with this thread.I just stated months ago that vista is crap & now months later I’m right none of you had the guts to reply then & no guts or balls to reply now!!

        • #2524903

          on the contrary

          by lasersteel ·

          In reply to you have no idea really why bother to converse on this

          this really is the biggest load of rubbish submitted to TechRepublic for ages…. all you are doing is bagging the product.

          It was expected by those of us with experience, that there would be teething troubles with Vista as there was for XP and earlier Windows versions, so what did you expect, or are you so green and naive that you believe you are the only one with a viewpoint.

          Most of the other “contributors” on this thread have given up and moved on to other threads of “substance and value” whilst you keep banging your head up against a brick wall.

          Get a life and drop off the ranting as you do the tech community no favours by your rabbiting on!

          I subscribed to this thread for some technically balanced views initially and am now only hanging on just for the “amusement value” you bring.

          At some stage TR will wakeup and kill off this thread as its really evolved into a load of vitriolic dribble wasting bandwidth.

          Go and get yourself a real job!

        • #2590906

          again your reply is devoid of facts

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to you have no idea really why bother to converse on this

          If vista is so great why is ms abandoning it completely & it has admitted that it is a DUD! & ms staffers have dubbed it the ME2.!
          Am i really bagging a product for the sake of bagging.No i’m bagging it because it fails to deliver on many fronts it is slow much slower than xp my testing & other independant testing show to be as much as 10%.I RECCOMEND TO PEOPLE GO BACK TO XP!!!!!
          I presume you were the one along with others who sang vistas praises.Well you are wrong.My thread has stood the test of time.I have two Doctorates in the pc field & i knew that ms had botched everything up & all you can do
          is critcise me that i’m childish & i don’t know what i’m talking about well you have shown how ignorant you all are go hide under
          a LOG!!!! also MR smartguy I have found major faults in the vista indexing system!!!!
          TATA DR MICK
          ps i’m the equivalent of DR PHIL !!
          PS If i was wrong i would not be on this thread the fact is i was right from the begining you had comments from technical
          people eg george etc & others singing vista’s praises where are they now!!
          Basically you are an ignorant little thing go hide someplace!!

        • #2607143

          well let me point out what you don’t know

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to he must be either unemployed or …..

          Microsoft is planning to ship its next major version of Windows — known internally as version “7” — within roughly three years, CNET.com.au has learned.

          The company discussed Windows 7 on Thursday at a conference for its field sales force in Orlando, Florida, according to sources close to the company.

          While the company provided few details, Windows 7, the next client version of the operating system, will be among the steps taken by Microsoft to establish a more predictable release schedule, according to sources. The company plans a more “iterative” process of information disclosure to business customers and partners, sources said.

          Windows Vista, the oft-delayed most recent release of Windows, shipped to businesses in November and to consumers in January after more than five years of development. Vista’s gestation period was marked by shifting product details as internal priorities changed and problems arose with development.

          Like Vista, Windows 7 will ship in consumer and business versions, and in 32-bit and 64-bit versions. The company also confirmed that it is considering a subscription model to complement Windows, but did not provide specifics or a time frame.

          Next up on Microsoft’s agenda is Service Pack 1 for Windows Vista, which is expected before year’s end.

          The discussion of Windows’ future isn’t surprising, given that Microsoft has been criticised by business customers for delays related to Vista. Many business customers pay for Microsoft’s software under a license agreement called Software Assurance.

          Windows 7 was previously known by the code name Vienna. A Microsoft representative confirmed that Windows 7 is the internal code name for the next client release of Windows. The details were released “as part of our ongoing outreach to enterprise customers and partners, Microsoft has begun sharing plans for how they will continue to deliver value to businesses in the future Software Assurance customers in particular”, a representative said in a statement via e-mail.

          “Microsoft is scoping Windows 7 development to a three-year time frame, and then the specific release date will ultimately be determined by meeting the quality bar,” according to the representative.

          give or take a couple of years.

        • #2607139

          dual boot setups can destroy your harddrive

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well let me point out what you don’t know

          18th October 2006 James Bannan Windows
          PLEASE NOTE — there is a newer version of this tutorial available. Click here to go to it .

          ——————————————————————————–

          If one installation of Windows just isn?t enough, or you don?t feel like there?s enough pain in your life yet, why not install both Windows XP and Windows Vista onto the same machine?

          Why not indeed. To be honest, I have no idea why you?d want to do this. As mentioned in a previous blog??? entry, Vista?s dominance of the MBR makes the process something of a one-way street. Once Vista is introduced to any system you have to play ball according to Vista Rules.

          Partitioning

          The actual dual-booting process is, however, relatively painless and straightforward. On a machine with Windows XP installed, the only prerequisite is that the hard drive has enough space to accommodate a Vista installation, or that you have a second drive to drop Vista onto.

          If you only have one physical drive, then you?ll need some spare space on the disk for a Vista partition. This can be a drama if your XP partition takes up the entire disk, as you?ll need to resize it. Unfortunately XP won?t help you here. If you have a drive partitioning tool like Acronis, well and good. But if you don?t and you?d (understandably) rather not pay for it if you don’t have to, there are alternatives.

          Windows Vista CAN resize partitions on the fly, but unfortunately it won?t do it as part of the default Vista installation. However, if you can get your hands on Windows PE 2.0, then you?re in business.

          Boot into PE, and load DISKPART from x:\Windows\System32. This is the Vista version of DISKPART, so the SHRINK option is available. Select the appropriate volume first (usually SELECT VOLUME 0) and type in SHRINK. This isn?t a configurable process as it is via Disk Management in the Vista GUI. SHRINK just goes through and recovers what space it can. On a 20GB NTFS partition with a basic XP installation, SHRINK dropped the partition by 10GB, which is enough for Vista (just!). It’s likely that defragmenting free space on the partition you’re shrinking will help a lot.

          If you don?t have access to Windows PE 2.0, there?s a very powerful tool called GParted – the GNOME Partition Editor. This is a Linux-based GUI partitioning tool which can resize NTFS partitions (amongst LOTS of others).

          Grab the LiveCD download, burn the ISO to create a bootable CD and fire up the machine. Accepting all the defaults should work fine, except if you?re using VMWare, in which case load the graphics modules manually and select VESA, otherwise the screen will just go black. Right-click on the partition and select Resize/Move. Drag the edge of the partition until you get the size needed, select OK and then Apply. And that?s it! Reboot and install Vista into the newly-created partition.

          Boot Manager

          Once Vista is installed, the system brings up the Windows Boot Manager (Vista version), with a choice between ?Microsoft Windows Vista? or a bland and generic ?Earlier Version of Windows?.

          Bit boring, but unfortunately modifying the boot manager in Vista is not quite as easy as it has been in the past. You can still access boot information in System Properties (right-click My Computer, Properties, Advanced System Settings), then Startup and Recovery, Settings. Here you can select the default operating system to load and the selection timeout settings, but that?s it. To edit all the boot options, you have to use a new tool called BCDEDIT from the command line. And unfortunately, it?s not easy to use at all. Very comprehensive and powerful, but difficult.

          BUT – running to the rescue is EasyBCD from NeoSmart. This gives you a GUI for BCDEDIT and makes life SO much easier. There?s a swag of options you can choose depending on how in-depth you want to get. For the moment, just go to ?Configure Boot? and change the name of the Windows XP installation to ?Windows XP? and hit ?Save Settings?. Restart and you?ll see that the changes have been written to the boot manager, and life is slightly less bland that it was.

          Under ?Add/Remove Entries? you can move existing entries up and down the list, or add new ones, if you have an existing partition ready for the new operating system. In theory, you could use Vista to quad-boot XP, Vista, Linux and OSX. But you?d be very brave?or a tech writer.

          If you decide that dualbooting really isn?t for you after all, the Vista MBR needs to go if you want to get XP operational again. Luckily, EasyBCD can help. Go to ?Manage Bootloader? and select ?Uninstall the Vista Bootloader? then ?Write MBR?. Restart the machine and the Vista Boot Manager is gone – the system loads straight into Windows XP. And in XP, the Vista partition is now the secondary D: partition, which can be safely erased.

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          add new comment
          1:
          System Restore has these stupid issues when you dual-boot between XP and Vista.

          someone (337 days ago)
          reply
          2: Dual boot
          I am purchasing a new HP PAVILION laptop with AMD turion 1.73 GHz Proc, 1 GB RAM and 120 GB HDD…. I thought i’ll purchase a vista pre loaded machine, but dicovered that installing XP(a lower version than vista) after vista would be a real pain…
          So i decided to purchase a WINXP laptop and then install VISTA HOME PREMIUM on an external USB HDD….
          I am not that very technically sound as other ppl here are, but am doing a good thing?
          If I am, how can i install vista on my secondary HDD so that when i boot my system with the external HDD connected, i should get a menu to choose the bootup between XP and vista…
          CAN SOME ONE PLZ HELP ME? I AM LEARNING AND SO DESPERATELY WANNA KNOW THIS…

          Nikhil Nagaraj (227 days ago)
          reply
          3:
          Well I have to agree , why would anyone want to load both XP and Vista, although I’ll take it one step farther – Why would anyone want to load Vista at all?? What does Vista offer that we really need, any reall new application? The only thing that Vista does has is the UI, which won’t function proplery unless you have the top of the line new Core 2 Duo CPU with a lot of RAM! So why should we bother with Vista at all??

          Katz (336 days ago)
          reply
          4: I beg to differ but not argue
          I just wanted to make the statement regarding how you stated you must have a powerful machine to run Vista and why someone would want it. Yes I agree most will be in awe of the UI it is quite illuminating compared to old styles, but I want to state that I have a 1.73 GHz processor on a dell laptop with 1G of memory and Vista runs amazingly well. It runs better than XP (faster I mean). The problem I do have is the incompatibility with older software. Not even that old sometimes. Example, the new Panda 2007 can’t even work. I caught this while looking for an answer to another problem I’ve had. I installed Vista on my computer and then setup another partition and installed XP Pro which unfortunately made it to where my Vista install won’t boot now.

          Michael (257 days ago)
          reply
          5: about that incompatibility issue…
          I was reading these posts and noticed something about a compatibility issue. Believe me, I had them too. Vista does offer a cleverly convenient feature, however, which basically enables you to run any program as though you were running it in another version of Windows of your choice. So if you know the program works on Windows XP SP2, for example, you would set it to run as if it were in Windows XP SP2. What you do is right click on the icon of the program and open its properties. Click the “Compatibility” tab on the top. Check the box next to “Run this program in compatibility mode for:” and select your OS from the dropdown menu. The selections are (in exact wording): 1. Windows 95 2. Windows 98 / Windows ME 3. Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 5) 4. Windows 2000 5. Windows XP (Service Pack 2) 6. Windows Server 2003 (Service Pack 1). And then keeping the box unchecked obviously makes it run in Vista (DUH, you didn’t need me to figure that one out!) There are also some more compatibility settings such as coloring, resolution, DPI, etc. as well as the option to always run the program as an administrator. nifty! Well, I was able to play all my games like this, but some of them went kinda off (deleted the crosshair in one! How the heck can I shoot in a game without a crosshair?!) So I went through the painful process of installing an XP partition. My programs will work there, but I’m still in the process of downloading drivers (including the one for ethernet, which means I’m typing this on Vista.) Whatever, hope that helped!

          Anonymous (no, seriously!) (208 days ago)
          reply
          6: I have software for my
          I have software for my business given to me by the company I am affiliated with and it will not run on Vista at all, even with running under the XP SP2 mode.

          Anon (147 days ago)
          reply
          7: wow i’m running my desktop
          wow i’m running my desktop with vista ultimate PERFECTLY fine with a athlon64 3000+, 512 mb pc 2700 ram (anyone remember that speed?) and a 5500 geforce card. I seriously doubt vista could run any better (no lag with aero, and has a nice index rating (everything above 3 exept gaming graphics…

          I could say that I have the worst of the worst scenarios for running vista (in terms of computer performance) and i’m doing great!

          marco (172 days ago)
          reply
          8: Sorry to call your comments into question but…
          512 ram will only give a rating of 2 in Vista.

          Shrax25 (148 days ago)
          reply
          9: the comments “Why would
          the comments “Why would anyone want to install Vista at all?
          or What does Vista have to offer anybody?” is lame. If you don’t like it, don’t use it! I have never heard so much complaining about any piece of software before. I would bet that 90% of people who complain that Vista is a horrible operating system have NEVER EVEN USED IT! I can tell you that I think Vista is the best operating system I have ever used. I’ve had W95,98,2000,XP home and pro, and I even have still an Intel iMac. I like the macs, but i’ll never buy one again. The money is not worth spending just for adobe photoshop (imac+photoshop=at least $2100). I have never had a virus on my XP Vista machine. Photoshop works BETTER on my Vista machine. Halo and Medal of honor work better on vista. Office 2003 works better on Vista. Security is MUCH MUCH MUCH BETTER on Vista. If vista sucks for you, too bad. That doesn’t mean it sucks for everybody. all my old software and hardware work with Vista. I don’t WANT anything else.

          FEDORAble (153 days ago)
          reply
          10: the comments “Why would
          Hi FEDORAble,

          I think you have not used many softwares like flash 8.0 which actually are having problems with Vista. When you you select a text to edit in flash, the dotted line showing the selection becomes slower and slower.

          I think you are not aware of such problems occuring in VISTA.

          This was your information.

          Thanks
          ABC

          ABC (148 days ago)
          reply
          11:
          the new magazine is out for about a week but old one still being advertised on web site. Why?

          John (336 days ago)
          reply
          12:
          Dual booting is a great way to have a peek at the new OS (64 bit version in my case) and even with its limitations (drivers and Vista compatible apps), you can always flick back to the regular XP (x64 in my case) for work or more important stuff you don’t want to expose an almost complete system to.

          Thanks for the tips on removing and/or managing the MBR. I’ll keep it in mind when I get near the RC1’s expiry date.

          Rob (336 days ago)
          reply
          13:
          “Well I have to agree , why would anyone want to load both XP and Vista?”

          It could be some bizzarre experiment to see how many paper clips, software updates and flying envelopes it takes to bring a modern day CPU and a couple of G’s of ram to a complete halt!

          Raindog (336 days ago)
          reply
          14:
          I Agree with Rob above. I’ve dual-booted XP (32-bit) with Vista (32-bit) for the exact same purpose. I prefer having seperate OSes on seperate physical drives, with HDDs being so much cheaper now a days. Really appreciate the tips on removing MBR. I know I would have had to look around for it sooner or later… 🙂

          I am Linux curious and was planning to add Ubuntu to my current installation and get it to triple-boot. Any idea how the Vista boot-manager reacts to an addition of Linux? Is it tolerant, or does it make life too painful (in which case I plan to install Ubuntu on a spare USB HDD I have, allowing to plug in and out as required, without affecting the dual-boot)? Some insight into this will be helpful. Thanks…

          TechGermz (336 days ago)
          reply
          15: ubuntu on usb drive
          Linux in general doesn’t boot from usb drives, because of a bootstrap issue. USB support is not there until after booting. I have found some workarounds for this posted various places, but find the instructions unintelligible.
          There is just enough ambiguity to make it unclear how to proceed – the old “I know what I meant” problem.
          There are also dire warnings about trashing your Windows installation by altering the Master Boot Record.

          Arthur Pearson (222 days ago)
          reply
          16:
          I am running Vista RC2 without any problems, all programs working fine. More stable than XP Pro. Running on a 3.2 Pentium with 2 gig of ram. I did have XP and Vista sitting on their own drives. Only needed the Vista install disk to sit in the Dvd player when booting to load Vista. Decided to just run Vista as my main OS. Will never go back to earlier OS.

          Rob (336 days ago)
          reply
          17:
          Another option is that MS this week released a beta of Virtual PC 2007.

          This allows you to run Vista as a Virtual Machine inside of XP. Thus bypassing the problems of dual booting.

          Realise that it is another beta to run and that the VM will consume resources but is a good quick way to confirm compatibility of Vista on your machine

          Steve (336 days ago)
          reply
          18:
          “Why would anyone want to load Vista at all??”

          In answer to that, you will surly realise the following
          1. Not everyone dislikes Microsoft and Windows. Some users want (and can afford) the latest and greatest of everything.
          2. Some business will go forward with introducing Vista, then there is a need for people to support this product. The best way to support an OS is to know the OS and an early start is always useful.

          Personally I wont be installing Vista. I am happy with my current setup of XP SP2 + patches 🙂

          Peter (336 days ago)
          reply
          19:
          Is it ok to install vista on the same partion. I did this when i had 2000 and upgraded to XP. Although a mistake bothe Operating Systems work fine? would this be ok to do with vista?

          Ben (336 days ago)
          reply
          20:
          Thanks for the info on how to restore the bootloader to start XP and rid myself of Vista RC2 from my second HD. Sweet!

          John (332 days ago)
          reply
          21:
          Hi

          I Upgraded windows Xp pro to Windows Vista RC1 (5600), this was installed on disk 0 partition 1. Due to compatibility issues with some programs I Installed xp pro again on a diffrent partition (disk zero partion 3. Now I dont get an option to boot windows vista. Is theie anything I can do. thanks in advance

          Irfan (332 days ago)
          reply
          22:
          I am having the exact problem. Look for solutions. Many thanks

          Raj (332 days ago)
          reply
          23: XP Vista dual boot
          Hello

          About a month ago, I bought a number of HP Pavilions that have the newly released Vista OS. These workstations were meant to operate instruments in my laboratory. I quickly found out the Agilent Technologies XP GPIB interface cards I use are not compatible with Vista. My solution was to buy full installation versions of XP to replace Vista. Micosoft told me that will be possible with a ?clean install?.

          A clean install does not work. XP goes through a series of file download motions, and when I get to the point of XP installation, I get a window that says ?unknown disk?, . Continuing will lock up the computer.

          HP will not help because I have an issue with XP which is not a supported operating system on the workstations I bought. Agilent Technologies will not help because I have an issue with Vista which is not a supported operating system for the GPIB cards I bought. Microsoft has tried helping for hours upon hours but to no avail.

          Some of the other things I have tried were formating the HD before install XP, and replacing the original HD with a new one before installing XP. Neither worked. I am told the problem lies with the computer rather than Vista.

          The question I have is can I install XP on my vista workstations via dual boot.

          I am about to give up hope and realize I threw away thousands in computers and XP software. Any chance you can tell me otherwise?

          regards

          ejz

          ejz (206 days ago)
          reply
          24: Its far from being an ideal
          Its far from being an ideal solution, but you could try the ‘Virtual Machine’ solution mentioned earlier, but in reverse… Virtual machine would allow you to install xp within Vista if that makes any sense, and may, in theory allow you to use your incompatible hardware… I’m not experienced with the use of Virtual Machine but the principle seems sound.

          William Barber (201 days ago)
          reply
          25: I tried a clean install of
          I tried a clean install of XP as well, and came up with other errors, so I wiped the drive using a program called DBAN (copied to a floppy drive), as it will wipe SATA drives as well as IDE. Once I did this, I was able to install XP properly (after FDISK of course). Hope this helped…Doug.

          why do people bother at all

        • #2607138

          mighty mouse to the rescue

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well let me point out what you don’t know

          Mouse battle: is Microsoft’s new mouse the most over-the-top rodent ever?
          18th September 2007 William Maher PC Hardware

          After viewing the ?world?s most advanced mouse? – Logitech?s MX Revolution, with its motorised flywheel transmission – we thought mice couldn?t get any more over-the-top. We take that back.

          Microsoft is following Logitech?s lead with a weight cartridge system for tweaking mouse-feel. Its SideWinder mouse (pictured above) comes with four of the small metal weights, for up to 30 grams of extra weight. To add weights, open up a slide tray in the side wall of the mouse.

          The weights come in a little black box, along with three sets of rubber pads with a different ?glide? feel. The pads are changeable, so you can switch depending on what works best with your mouse pad or desk surface.

          FPS players will be pleased to know the SideWinder is a corded job, not wireless. The accessories box also acts as an anchor point for the mouse cord so it doesn?t catch on your keyboard/PC.

          For those who consider themselves decent at headshots, there?s a potentially handy set of toggle buttons on the top for changing dpi sensitivity (up to 2000 dpi). An LCD screen built into the mouse ? no, we?re not kidding – shows what DPI you?re using.

          The SideWinder isn?t cheap at $129.95 (availability scheduled for November 2007), but it?s still decent value compared with Logitech?s G5 (same price), and G9 ($169.95). Both Logitech mice have weight cartridges and customisable dpi settings.

          The SideWinder is one of a few eyebrow-raising mice we?ve seen of late. The Logitech G9 also has a choice of mouse shells ? a removable plastic chassis you can switch to provide a different feel. It also has an LED display.

          The other mouse that?s caught our attention is Logitech?s motion-sensing MX Air Rechargeable Cordless Air Mouse. In a move that reminds us a bit of the Nintendo Wii, the MX Air detects movement: wave it in the air to change the volume of music, or change tracks.

          Microsoft has also unveiled a dual-mode mini notebook mouse with a toggle for switching between Bluetooth and 2.4GHz wireless. Representatives from Microsoft argue that using 2.4GHz reduces the possibility of crosstalk between devices in crowded offices. The USB connector also doubles as a 1GB memory key.

          Kinda handy, but while the guy over the partition is copying the files you just handed him on the 1GB key, your mouse is going to be moving his mouse pointer… there’s an R&D flaw there somewhere.
          well who knows ms may get it right this time

        • #2607135

          sp1 what a joke

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to he must be either unemployed or …..

          Microsoft announces Vista SP1 Beta
          30th August 2007 James Bannan Microsoft, Vista, Windows
          This week, the Microsoft Windows Vista Team announced details about the official beta of Vista Service Pack 1.

          With the private beta having been leaked and done the rounds for the last few weeks (read our in-depth analysis here), Microsoft?s announcement doesn?t carry very many surprises. Still, it?s always informative to get the update straight from the horse?s mouth, so to speak.

          As expected, SP1 will contain all the updates currently available for Windows Vista. However, Microsoft aren?t holding off on deploying updates while waiting for the service pack?s release. Various non-critical but customer-driven updates have been released via Windows Update and Microsoft Download Center (namely the performance and reliability updates), and with Vista so closely tied to online Microsoft services, it?s good to see that being made use of.

          However, SP1 contains more than just patches and hotfixes. It will extend Vista?s functionality in various areas, namely reliability and performance (as we?ve already seen), administration experience and support for emerging hardware and standards. All the available technical detail is in the SP1 Beta Whitepaper, but here?s a summary or what to expect:

          Reliability/Performance/Security
          Enhanced communication with Windows Security Center
          Improved x64 kernel support for third-party security vendors
          RDP file signing
          Elliptical Curve Cryptography number generator (PRNG)
          Improved Bitlocker Drive Encryption (BDE)
          Improved reliability and compatibility for:
          newer graphics cards
          external laptop displays
          networking
          Windows XP-upgraded systems
          printer drivers
          entering and resuming from sleep
          Improved speed when:
          copying and extracting files
          resuming from Hibernation and Resuming
          domain PCs are operating on the domain
          Improves IE7 performance, especially in CPU utilisation and parsing Javascript
          Improved battery life via fewer calls on the CPU and screen re-drawing
          Faster logon procedure
          Faster browsing of network shares
          Administration
          Bitlocker can now encrypt local volumes other than the C: drive
          Fixes problems printing to printers in Terminal Service sessions
          Network Diagnostic tool will be able to fix problems with file sharing
          Disk Defragmenter can target specific volumes
          Emerging Hardware/Standards
          Flash memory storage will use exFAT files system, fully supported in Vista SP1
          Support for SD-DMA (Secure Digital Advanced Direct Memory Access)
          64-bit PCs will be able to boot using the EFI, which is currently only supported on IA-64 machines
          Added support for Direct3D 10.1
          Added support for SSTP (Secure Socket Tunnelling Protocol)
          The standalone service pack is likely to be fairly chunky (around 1GB in size for x86 machines), and is anticipated to need quite a lot of hard drive space to install (approximately 7GB for x86 and a whopping 12GB for x64 ? this is not insubstantial). The update will support all language packs so it can be installed on any version of Vista. Given the size of the standalone update however, an English-only version might be prudent.

          The service pack will be installable via three methods:

          Express ? an individual machine connects to the Internet and downloads only the necessary files. This uses far less drive space and would be a good method of updating an SOE or home machines with a broadband connection
          Standalone ? this functions like a standard hotpatch and is convenient for updating multiple machines. Does require a large one-off download
          Slipstream ? while users can use the standalone package to slipstream their own Windows Vista media, all post-SP1 versions of Vista media will have SP1 slipstreamed into it. Users can use this media to deploy Vista SP1 to new machines, or do an upgrade install. Volume License customers will be able to download the slipstreamed media
          Microsoft anticipate that SP1 Beta will be released to the public within a few weeks, and then a later SP1 pre-release will be made available to testers via MSDN and TechNet subscribers (and via BitTorrent for everyone else).

          The final release is still scheduled for the first quarter of 2008, and it?s tied very closely to the Windows 2008 engineering cycle, as has been commonly known for some time.

          Given that Microsoft has been pretty good about releasing Vista updates ahead of SP1, this may reduce any reluctance on the part of users and businesses to hold off upgrading to Vista until SP1 is released. Of course from what we?ve already experienced, Vista SP1 looks to be a far better experience than plain ?ol Vista, but the Vista experience so far hasn?t been bad at all, and it?s probable that by the time SP1 is released, a fully-patched Vista machine will be largely indistinguishable from a brand-new SP1 system. However, the fate of that particular forecast is well and truly in Microsoft?s hands.

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          1: M$
          I really and truly hate M$ and their arrogance. How can one company survive indefinitely after angering their customers, creating lousy products, and making horrible strategic decisions time and time again? IT WILL HAPPEN….they will crumble…..I hope we all see the day when that happens

          Haushoffer (19 days ago)
          reply
          2: I couldnt agree more with
          I couldnt agree more with this post, Microsoft keep stuffing half baked software in our face and turn around and tell us its the greatest. Anybody who is running vista are just beta testers at this time.

          Devon Smashh (19 days ago)
          reply
          3: vista
          I work in a school and I am currently buying five new computers. I have had to make a request to my supplier to down grade the products to XP. How bad is that? Vista is going backwards fast. “If it isn?t broke, don’t fix it”

          Brian O’Farrell (8 days ago)
          reply
          4: Hey Brian – I work at a
          Hey Brian – I work at a school as well….I’m not sure if this licensing option is open to you, but you can get Software Assurance licensing which licenses you for older versions of Windows.

          For example, you license for Vista Business, and you’re entitled to install anything from Windows 95 to Vista Business. The same sort of licensing is available for Office as well.

          James Bannan (8 days ago)
          reply
          5: Will it be any good?
          Well, good news that the update is coming along. We recently bought a load of Lenova laptops (“Vista-ready”) and they barely work. We’ve had to buy copies of XP and install that as an exercise in damage limitation!

          APC-UPS-man (19 days ago)
          reply
          6: Vista
          [quote]We recently bought a load of Lenova laptops [/quote] you better get a better system advisor … I dropped Lenova/IBM years ago.(poor service poor support poor drivers poor everything).. IBM suks worse than RCA. which is 100% junk.

          Snuffy (19 days ago)
          reply
          7: Newsflash: IBM No longer
          Newsflash: IBM No longer owns the “Thinkpad” line, a company called “Lenovo” (Not Lenova) does now.

          And have you ever seen IBM’s enterprise class machines? No? Didn’t think so.

          Windows Vista runs fine *IF* your machine has what it takes to get the job done. AMD Turion64@1.8ghz, 2gb of ram, 256m video laptop… runs like a charm. Games run better than they did in Windows XP for that matter.

          Windows Vista actually gets faster as you use it, it “learns” your style of use, and configures itself accordingly…

          People said the same about Windows XP, and Windows 2000 before it.

          Move on or move out (to linux) MS Windows is an ever-changing thing, and will *not* stay the same for long.

          IBM!=Lenovo (18 days ago)
          reply
          8: Bloat Ware
          The system resource requirements of Vista are crazy. 15Gb install vs 4GB for Mac OS X.

          Microsoft, with all of its resources should have developed an entirely new OS, unencumbered by the .dll hell that has always been Windows biggest weakness.

          Instead, they have created an operating system that is not completely compatible with old software and hardware while simultaneously not completely compatible with new software and hardware – it is half-baked.

          The next OS that they release needs to be built from scratch.

          Apple bit the bullet with OS X and broke with the past in order to create a much more stable, efficient and powerful.

          Microsoft needs to follow Apple’s lead.

          MacCacking myself (18 days ago)
          reply
          9: Redesigning Windows
          It’s a great idea in theory, but in practice? Microsoft have already made baby steps in this direction and look at the criticism they got for it. People constantly carping that nothing works like the “lenova” comment. Personally, I’ve got everything going, though sometimes resorting to forums. (I don’t use older software outside of the odd game.) Apple also has the advantage of having far fewer users, and even fewer corporate users, who would be most put out if they had to redesign their systems. (The corporate firm I work for has only just upgraded to Windows XP from NT4 no less!) And unfortunately, it’s the vast sales of Windows licenses to corporates that Microsoft make their money on.

          Scott (18 days ago)
          reply
          10: The Greatest So Far
          You don’t have to be smart to know that Vista is the greatest version of Windows so far. Sure there are a few things that need sorting out, like every OS before it. No operating system has been able to do what Vista does and it is the best OS ever made. Fullstop. Cry about more important things.

          The Man (7 days ago)
          reply
          11: Why does everyone slate MS?
          Why does everyone slate MS? If it is that bad they should just take it off their system and see how they get on with Linux, then they would see what MS has achieved or better still they should create an inproved OS.

          MD (2 days ago)
          reply
          12: Oh go have a cry and use a
          Oh go have a cry and use a mac and try do all the million things that you cant do on a mac.

          Anonymous Ranger (7 days ago)
          reply
          13: Best OS ever. let these
          Best OS ever. let these n00bs try work out how much better it is than everything else while we destroy the world

          Anonymousgagrr (7 days ago)
          reply
          14: To all the Microsoft slaters!
          Whats the point keep slating a company that clearly makes more money than anyone can imagen? The whole point being you have to change things for the better and sometimes it’s better to focas all the efforts on new ideas than it is to use efforts supporting old ideas. If you don’t like change, stick with the old stuff and never spend money upgrading and stop slatting a company thats got computer technology where it is today. Any decent workable idea costs money and the upgrades after dont cost much if anything. I Bought Cubase 4 costing ?500 and Steinberg have released 2 small fixes since its release well over a year ago with no dates for more patches or updates, now thats something to moan about. So, how many of you Microsoft haters actually bought Vista and gave it 5 minutes of your time? thats the real question, and I bet you wont even want it to do more than Windows XP does already so theres not much point upgrading is there? If your into software technology and like buying new hardware then Windows Vista is the gateway to the future of the Desktop Computer.
          Well i told you guys ms will not make it past the post with vista

        • #2607134

          ms faces the sweet success of failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to sp1 what a joke

          Microsoft: the authentic smell of failure
          27th August 2007 Angus Kidman Microsoft, Vista, Windows
          What is the Microsoft Windows Genuine Advantage, exactly? Over the past weekend, some owners of legitimate copies of Windows had their copies of Windows invalidated by Microsoft, while users of pirated copies were unaffected.

          The weekend meltdown of Microsoft’s Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) servers managed to offend the one group of users — people actually using Vista — that the software giant desperately needs to keep onside, and demonstrates once again why the company’s anti-piracy approach benefits neither users nor shareholders.

          On Saturday Australian time, Microsoft’s Windows Genuine Advantage servers, which authenticate copies of Windows and Office to ensure they are not pirated, managed to royally screw up and began incorrectly identifying legitimate Vista and XP systems as illegitimate.

          For people who’ve actually laid out good money for Vista — itself perhaps a questionable strategy given its hoglike hardware requirements, sluggish performance and lack of driver support — getting fingered as a pirate is offensive enough.

          However, if WGA identifies your system as suspect, it also disables many features of Vista, including the souped up Aero interface, leaving you with little more than Internet Explorer to play with.

          Microsoft engineers eventually managed to fix the problem around 19 hours after reports of it first surfaced, but not before it had to warn users on its forum that swearing wasn’t acceptable.

          To date, there’s been no word on the actual cause of the problem. The official site for ‘Genuine Windows’ doesn’t even include a reference to the problem, while Microsoft’s WGA blog only includes a brief note referring to how to revalidate affected systems.

          Customers who have been tagged as the Captain Jack Sparrow of the software world have to revalidate their machines again to re-enable the blocked features. (Naturally, being a Microsoft fix, this also requires rebooting your PC.) Some afflicted users have reported that since revalidating, they are no longer able to access the Windows Update service.

          The issue could have been much worse for Microsoft if the meltdown had occurred on a weekday, as many more machines would have potentially being affected. Nonetheless, it still demonstrates the essential stupidity of setting up a system which requires legitimate users to endlessly prove that they’re not criminals, shifting the burden of intellectual property protection away from Microsoft and onto its customers.

          The impact of WGA on piracy is questionable in any case. As one poster on Microsoft’s forums remarked: “Download a pirated copy of Windows with Activation Cracks and live happily.” The criminals stay happy, the genuine users get annoyed, and Microsoft staff seem more concerned about forum usage policies than customer discontent. It’s not a pretty picture, is it?

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          1: Heil Microsoft, lol.
          Heil Microsoft, lol.

          Brendan (24 days ago)
          reply
          2: An industry problem, not just one for MS.
          This is not just a Microsoft issue – sure, WGA is an example of the guilty until proven innocent mentality that activation procedures force people to endure, but they aren’t the only ones.

          I remember Intuit being one of the worst offenders a few years ago – forcing users to fork out at least $5.00 in calling a 1900 number to reactivate software that wouldn’t activate in the first place or needed to be reactivated for one reason or another. In my opinion, that’s ransomware.

          And then you have Starforce and other game “copy protection” mechanisms which infest yoru PC and occasionally prevent you from actually doing other things with yoru system.

          The irony is that you aren’t subjected to any of these restrictions with pirated software – and you save too. I’m not advocating the use of pirated software, but to pay for software these day seems a bit like paying to get someone to insert a pool cue in your proverbial…

          And of course, the same applies to the music and film industries.

          What’s the solution? I don’t know. The old idea of reducing the price of things so that people are less inclined to pirate is probably the best way, but no software/music/film vendor will ever do that.

          Sadly, the only other choice is to use product activation – until we all get suckered in to using online apps. The next time you buy a WoW voucher, you might have to pick one up for Office too…

          Jarrod Spiga (24 days ago)
          reply
          3: Some worthwhile points you
          Some worthwhile points you made there Jarrod. Copying isn’t unique to the software industry. If you’re a content creator you don’t want to be losing all that sweat and tears to creating something wonderful, then simply have someone take your work and use it without due credit.

          I think there will always be cheapskates out there who will steal things no matter what you do. I think the trick is to put extra added value and ‘cherishability’ to a product so that people will want to pay money for it. For example, the experience of buying a Harry Potter novel and holding it in your hand whilst reading it is much more rewarding than reading it off a dodgy photocopy or a computer screen. A quality hand printed family portrait photo is going to be cherished more than some tiny 2-inch proof prints. I think cheapening the product will just remove the incentive for going out and buying the real thing.

          Software? At the end of the day we aren’t paying for ownership of it – just the rights to borrow it for a while (as per EULAs). Unfortunately it feels like borrowing a favourite toy from an overprotective brother who wants to make sure you won’t scratch it.

          azi (23 days ago)
          reply
          4: I unfortunately chose
          I unfortunately chose Saturday to format my system, and still cannot update, as it was a fresh install, i am simply reformating but the way microsoft has handled this has been bad.

          Jordan Messenger (24 days ago)
          reply
          5: I hope XP starts entering
          I hope XP starts entering into Reduced Functionality Mode with XPSP3+WGA.

          Anonymuos (24 days ago)
          reply
          6: Unfortunate…
          I’m no MS basher, on the contrary, I’m a Windows user, but I’m afraid if MS lets too many of these things happen, businesses will find another OS. If there’s anything I’ve learned so far, if it doesn’t work reliably, businesses won’t deal with it. Such a happening is a long way off, I believe, but if MS keeps allowing irresponsible things like this happen, then they will lose money.

          I’ve always felt the Genuine Advantage is a ridiculous measure against piracy anyway. I’m in the US, and I doubt that more than 20% of computer users are pirates…seems like a big waste of money to me, when 80%+ of the market are legitimate users, if I’m correct in that assumption.

          Reghart (23 days ago)
          reply
          7: Microsoft: the authentic smell of failure
          The world is a funny place. Despite all these Microsoft muck-ups, come two years time Vista will be on literally every PC in the world. I really have to give it up to MS.
          This stuff is funny, unless your machine is flagged is illegal, of which mine hasn’t beeen flagged as yet..

          Beanyama (23 days ago)
          reply
          8: While it is a fact that in 2
          While it is a fact that in 2 years most pcs will have vista, it should be noted that in 2 years every effort for WGA will have been cracked and people will browse the web with their hacked vista with no problem

          Kaiser (22 days ago)
          reply
          9: Haaa
          I’m not surprized.
          Windows is Windows, nothing is new under the moon.

          Prefer Unix/Linux/Mac but where are all developers?

          bertilP (20 days ago)
          reply
          10: I love the Windows Genuine
          I love the Windows Genuine Advantage it truly is an Advntage

          One just wonders why ms has not stopped the
          circumventing of it’s products long time ago !!

        • #2607133

          your old pc needs to meet dr kevorkian

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to sp1 what a joke

          Your old PC needs to meet Dr Kevorkian
          10th August 2007 Dan Warne Apple, Mac, PC Hardware, Windows
          COMMENT | A friend recently asked me to set up her old PC so that another member of the family could use it. “Righto,” I thought… “probably won’t run Vista, but it’ll surely run XP.”

          When I saw the box, I knew that I would have no such good fortune. It was a 1998-vintage box, sans USB ports, ethernet, WiFi or any of those sorts of conveniences we take for granted. In fact, the only semi-modern convenience it had was a CD-ROM drive.

          I could have suggested that my friend simply put the box out to pasture and buy a cheap Dell, but the fact was, she only wanted to do the most basic of tasks on it — word processing, email and web browsing. Why should that justify a $700 expenditure?

          I dutifully set about reformatting and setting it up, installing the most recent versions of Windows and Office that would run acceptably on the very old hardware — Windows 98 and Office 2000 — and then discovered that it’s nearly impossible to get free or cheap anti-virus software that runs on Windows 98 any more. I did track down one eventually, after an hour of Googling, however.

          But then we bought an HP printer (the only one in Officeworks that still had a parallel port), and discovered that Windows 98 drivers were no longer available. Turns out that when Microsoft discontinues support for a version of Windows, so does everybody else.

          I could see that this computer was going to come back and haunt me time and time again, and I was musing over this conundrum at lunch with my friend (and contributor to APCMag.com) Danny Gorog. When he’s not writing for APC or the Herald Sun, Danny’s main business is a chain of stores that sells stuff on eBay on anyone’s behalf. He makes his money by taking a cut of the sale, so he’s intimately familiar with the cost of different sorts of goods in online auctions. His suggested course of action? Check out the prices of iMacs on eBay.

          iMac on eBay: runs the latest Mac OS X 10.4, costs peanuts
          Lo and behold, I discovered you can buy one of the original “fruity flavoured” all-in-one iMacs for about $50-$100 on eBay. These models are not speed demons in today’s terms, but they’re perfectly capable of running the latest version of Mac OS X, Microsoft Office and Firefox if you add a bit of extra RAM.

          I ended up getting a Bondi Blue iMac for my friend’s family member — 400MHz G3, 10GB hard drive, 128MB RAM and a CD-ROM. I had a spare 512MB PC133 RAM DIMM lying around from an old computer, so I slotted that in and installed OS X 10.3 on it (it runs a little quicker than Tiger, because it doesn’t have the Spotlight disk indexing or Dashboard widgets).

          It runs smoothly and at an acceptable clip (this family member is not going to be using it for much more than word processing, email, browsing the web and downloading small batches of digital camera pictures). It’s interesting to note that this computer I bought on eBay is of a close vintage as the PC I was trying to resurrect — the iMac was a year 2000 model, while the PC was a 1998 model. It’s interesting that you can run the latest Mac OS on a seven year-old Mac, but it’s fairly impossible to run anything other than Windows 98 on a 1998 vintage PC.

          More importantly, though, I know I’m not going to have to do weekend and late night tech support for the rest of the natural life of the Windows PC.

          The simple fact is I’m sick of doing friends’ and family tech support for problems that are really Microsoft’s fault, not mine. It’s not that I begrudge helping people, it’s that I begrudge the fact that I wouldn’t need to be helping them with most of the problems if they had a Mac.

          Spyware, viruses, irritating alerts advising you to clean up desktop icons, dogs with wagging tails — they’re problems that just don’t exist on a Mac. They might one day, but for now, they’re just not an issue Mac users have to deal with.

          So from now on, when anyone asks me to help them resurrect an old piece of rubbish computer that’s past its used by date, I’m just going to buy them an iMac on eBay. $50 out of my pocket won’t cause a ripple in my finances, but it will save me hours of tech support time in the future.

          John C. Dvorak, who has made a career out of writing opinion pieces that deliberately provoke the ire of the Mac userbase, has now reached the same conclusion.

          “As someone who does recommend gear to people, I have to think to myself, “Should I recommend something that will come back to haunt me, or recommend a Mac with its higher price but lower hassle factor?” The answer is simple. I hate the idea of having to do customer service for people who cannot keep their systems clean, and that’s most people.

          “I hate to say it, but the PC community talks a big game when it comes to security and protection. The reality is that they’ll never really get a handle on the problem as long as the PC is the never-ending target of hackers. I’m certain the Mac will eventually be targeted, but when? It doesn’t seem like it will be anytime soon.”

          For the first time ever, I couldn’t agree more with Dvorak.

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          1: lol.. quick question.. wat
          lol.. quick question.. wat would it be like tryin to work on a three gig imovie on an old mac like that?

          berrd (40 days ago)
          reply
          2: Pretty impossible :-> Like I
          Pretty impossible :->

          Like I said though, this was a replacement computer for a Windows 98 one, for someone who just wanted basic word processing, email, web browsing and photo storage. 10GB and a 400MHz processor is ample for that.

          APC administrator (40 days ago)
          reply
          3: how could you possibly
          how could you possibly critisize the ability of the old imac that still runs the near-latest OS for mac, and never crashes, as opposed to the pc which will probably be plagued with the blue screen of death for years to come. Whether it can run a 3 gig video file is of no consequence, because theres no chance you could do it on the PC even semi-successfully.

          Trolls…

          Blah (40 days ago)
          reply
          4: Not impossible at all
          I edited my first feature film (90min shot in miniDV) on a this very same machine in late 2000 using iMovie 2 in OS9!

          You would need an external firewire HD, as my final cut weights about 25GB, but it’s quite possible.

          JF Leduc (40 days ago)
          reply
          5: I am a BIG Mac fan, but you
          I am a BIG Mac fan, but you could have also just installed the latest of any Linux distro on that hardware and saved them from buying ANY new hardware, and given them all the functionality they were asking for and more…

          Eytan (40 days ago)
          reply
          6: Agreed, the original iMacs
          Agreed, the original iMacs are great machines.

          I’ve got a 350 MHz model, and it runs Tiger at a perfectly acceptable speed.

          In fact, it’s used for light Photoshop work. CS2 runs at a fine speed (unless you’re doing any complex filters).

          Anon (40 days ago)
          reply
          7: Video editing
          Really, digital video editing on an iMac of that age isn’t too bad if you:

          1. Add more RAM — the more the better
          2. Get a bigger, faster hard drive
          3. Get an iMac DV or later with Firewire ports (usually 500MHz+)

          As long as you stick to the basics and use iMovie to edit your videos, it is actually quite usable.

          Aaron (40 days ago)
          reply
          8: Can you resurrect an old PC for me
          I would love you to resurrect an old PC of mine, i.e. buy me an old iMac

          Richard Moore (40 days ago)
          reply
          9: LOL!!! Sorry, the offer is
          LOL!!! Sorry, the offer is limited to close friends and family 😉

          Dan Warne (40 days ago)
          reply
          10: $500 Dells have a place
          And there I was, Dan, thinking you’d whip together an old hack to convert one of us non believers.

          As for recycling old clunkers, any thing pre P-III it’s really not worth the bother, can be done but seriously not worth the hassle.
          I’m a little over doing those favours that have the need to keep on giving.

          Word of warning when doing these favours be they MAC or PC, the recipient must take them on the condition they do not come back, relatives no exception!!!

          If I gave it to you as an old box 3 years ago why would I suddenly need it back now that your done with it. Same goes for old HP Deskjets, lasers that require a 2 person lift and that carton of zip disks.

          raindog (39 days ago)
          reply
          11: Agreed.
          Several of my friends who make their living supporting PCs have converted their homes, families and friends to the Mac just to avoid dealing with the support issues at home. Give them iLife and WoW and they’re good to go.

          AnonymousCoward-InSoCal (40 days ago)
          reply
          12: Nix OS would work
          There are plenty of linux distros that would work just fine on an old PC.

          debiant (40 days ago)
          reply
          13: Mmmm.. but do they come with
          Mmmm.. but do they come with drivers for the latest HP Multifunction printers?

          Dan Warne (40 days ago)
          reply
          14: Yes, they do
          HP actually sponsors the creation of Linux drivers – see HP’s statement.
          You can see the list of supported and unsupported devices here. Basically, everything is supported except for some really old Deskjets and Laserjets.

          Linux User (40 days ago)
          reply
          15: Most of the big desktop
          Most of the big desktop distributions would, or would have drivers that are close enough.

          It’d be pretty frustrating trying to run modern versions of OpenOffice or GNOME/KDE at a comfortable speed on a made-for-Win98 machine, though.

          old_misery (40 days ago)
          reply
          16: Don’t need bloated WMs
          You could simply install any lightweight distro and use XFCE, or IceWM. IceWM can even have a Vista theme, very very nice.

          A good distro for old PCs is Puppy Linux, which runs extremely well on old hardware.

          Brendan (39 days ago)
          reply
          17: In addition to this, I have
          In addition to this, I have found that HP have a lot more drivers available for Linux than they do for Vista.

          I have a Networked MFC at home that I can only print on with Vista – yet I can scan over the network and print using Linux. Likewise, I cannot even install the KVM over IP software on Vista, yet I can under Linux – which makes me glad that I set up my work laptop to dual-boot, because I’d be screwed if I had to remotely support something using Vista.

          Jarrod Spiga (38 days ago)
          reply
          18: I recently installed XP on a
          I recently installed XP on a 500mhz k6-2 with 128 ram,12GB drive and 2mb pci video. As far as office type tasks are concerned it runs as smooth as silk. People who buy new computers solely for word processing are paying for performance they will never use.

          Currie (40 days ago)
          reply
          19: As my business offer service
          As my business offer service and tech support for all popular platforms, including Windows, Linux, Mac, I have to point out that you still haven’t realised what an 8 year old Mac can accomplish compared to a PC of that age. It’s like comparing a cripple to an Olympic athlete.
          Heck, I even installed in 2006, the Mac OS X Panther (ie. Windows XP) on a 1996 Wallstreet notebook. I was amazed to discover that Panther was running perfectly fine, it was able to modestly run all modern applications and also to take advantage of all the visual effects the OS featured! (ex. Expose, transparencies, etc.) Beat that on the PCs!…

          MacDaddy (40 days ago)
          reply
          20: Lets not confuse the hardware with the OS
          Lets not confuse the hardware with the Operating system.

          further it is still possible to set windows 98 up with free anti virus (avast home)ie6 etc with little problems.

          I’m not saying that the i-Mac was not a good solution, just that with some knowledge there probably wasn’t the perceived problem in the first place…

          debiant (38 days ago)
          reply
          21: No HP driver available for
          No HP driver available for the printer we bought, though.

          APC administrator (38 days ago)
          reply
          22: thats it!
          Thats the final nail in this coffin, sub 100 and able to run the latest operating system? say no more. Ebay here i come, its mac learning time!

          suicidal_weasel (38 days ago)
          reply
          23: Sounds great, but how much
          Sounds great, but how much does it cost to upgrade the OS to OS X 10.3 ?

          Andy (38 days ago)
          reply
          24: I like your solution
          While I might be most familiar with PCs, your solution is great for your family member.

          I have a story similar to yours, except I went the whole way and did restore an old PC. I wanted to give my girlfriend a computer she could use to surf the net and do word processing on, so I got an old Gateway PC circa 1998 or 1999 with a PII in it, that I had gotten from a friend, thinking of making a firewall. I stuck 512MB of RAM in it, and an old 8 gig hard drive, and amazingly, I got it running XP SP2. It works fine, and now she has a wireless internet connection on one of those USB NICs. It’s fast for the things she needs to do with it, like surf the web with firefox, and put songs on her MP3 player, so I guess old PCs aren’t all counted out!

          Thanks though, for sharing about those dirt cheap Macs, I might have to invest in one…

          Reghart (37 days ago)
          reply
          25: mac help
          my dad bought 2 imacs 2nd hand and tried to network them but the previos user had blocked networking and they are being used to much to compleatly reset

          is there a way to unlock networking so they can share files or external hard drives

          m (37 days ago)
          reply
          26: mac help
          just got my trendy imac. Plugged my mp3 player in usb, power not supported?no!! locked up with my usb connected.
          great little computer all in one.
          but support in programs just isnt there like microsoft.
          cost of os 10 more then cost of hardware!
          back to microsoft win98se here i come. load dx9,in expolorer6 win media player all good.
          mac another door stop now all pretty and colourful. :-))

          takecover (35 days ago)
          reply
          27: What MP3 player was it? If
          What MP3 player was it? If it supported USB mass storage mode it should have worked, but if it used a proprietary communication protocol then it wouldn’t have worked.

        • #2523995

          the facts are with me Ms has abandonded vista for the time being

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to 13 Replies?

          as predicted by me months ago,also i predicted vista would be much slower when everyone else attacked me who is right now!!!!I predicted vista would fail & people would all go back to XP.That’s all i’m saying.

        • #2523993

          I feel sorry for you members at tech republic

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to the facts are with me Ms has abandonded vista for the time being

          that the best you can do is sulk on these threads & not offer any feed back at all.
          All you can say is why should i bother,.i bothered because i knew i was right!

        • #2590737

          I have said

          by ang2006 ·

          In reply to I feel sorry for you members at tech republic

          from the very beginning that I use XP and do not intend to switch to Vista until it is less troublesome. You however, by continually bashing and complaining about the same things over and over, are committing overkill and it causes you to lose whatever credibility you may have had. Saying it multiple times does not make it more true. Give it a rest before I turn into a Vista supporter….always pull for the underdog being put down.

        • #2591722

          Yes but these threads are to make you think

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to I feel sorry for you members at tech republic

          I’m not bashing vista because i hate vista or hate ms no!.I don’t like the current crap that’s dished out & look how many of you ha ve really commented.The fact it’s allpointing to one thing ie a huge disaaster.From my point is a huge hey guys i told you so & a lot of you did not beleive me.When a veritable number of reputable people were saying that how great vista is.You guys are not really serious enough & have not come forward to comment.
          There is far too much silence.If it means repeating adnaseum to prove a point so be it !.But i have merely told you so.
          ta mick

        • #2589695

          if you only knew ms is just driving itself out of existence

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to 13 Replies?

          Vista is a another lame system it is trying to prop up so the gullible public will go out & buy so that ms gets richer./

        • #2589693

          vista is an o0p system that most are

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to if you only knew ms is just driving itself out of existence

          steerring away.One would think that by now all bugs & fixes would be fixed in the op system

        • #2589691

          defintely gone the way of me1 now dubbed me2

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista is an o0p system that most are

          evidence show this is right

        • #2589687

          over the years i have adopted every op system

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to 13 Replies?

          I have avoided vista cause its shit.!!!

    • #2521537

      by a Ford if the Chevy keeps breaking down

      by sdrose2 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I sit silently by listening to the rants of unhappy Microsoft customers. The same rants as came with every new operating system since 3.1. Lets compare vehicles to computers. For the last 20 years, vehicles have become more complex, more expensive, and with worse support from manufacturers and warranty providers. The conveniences built in to a PC system or automobile are driven by consumer requests, government regulation, and the need to stay competitive in the market place. I endured months of clamoring for the release of Vista. Why is it taking so long? Why isn’t it out when they said it would be? ON an on and on. Microsoft released it before they were ready and set up support sites to handle the barrage of calls for tech support. Have you ever witnessed the support teams that are activated when a new model vehicle hits the market? Microsoft doesn’t come close. Company’s rely on consumers to find flaws in products through trial and error, and no automobile, PC, Mac, or other complex piece of machinery is going to perform flawlessly every time for every consumer. The bottom line to this is, there are other operating systems out there just like there are other automobile manufacturers. Go test drive one and see if you like it.

      • #2524048

        i presume you agree now that vista is a comlete dud

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to by a Ford if the Chevy keeps breaking down

        & you see it as another me2.Stop the bullshitting & face the reality.
        enough is enough Ms has created a real disaster.I’m telling it like it is it is a slow system much slower than xp.It is a bloated system.It’s got 10 million codes more than xp.
        So why bother!!
        simple try out other systems if not go back to xp!!
        ta mick

    • #2592805

      recent independent tests have shown what a big flop

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      vista is .Ms has hust announced major problems have been ironed out & consumers can have confidence in vista.The big wow has been absent for some time it isn’t there for vista.
      May 12, 2007 12:01 AM (From the May 14, 2007 issue)

      Windows Vista is either the software blast heard round the computing world–Microsoft’s marketing line is “The WOW starts now”–or a dud, depending on who’s talking. Six months into Vista’s release to business customers, the reality lies in between those extremes.

      Boyd’s Price wonders: What’s the benefit?

      Photo by Jeffery Newbury

      Microsoft’s new operating system is in use at a quarter of companies surveyed by InformationWeek Research. That’s not a bad start, but you have to read the fine print to get the full, and less impressive, picture. Among those early adopters, 91% have installed Vista on 10% or fewer of their PCs. Most of the deployment work is still ahead even for them.

      The survey, completed on the Web by 612 business technology professionals in March and April, helps explain the contradictory information circulating about Vista’s uptake. The U.S. Department of Transportation, the Federal Aviation Administration, and NASA, for example, are all holding off on Vista upgrades, at least temporarily, and countless businesses have made similar decisions. On the other hand, when Microsoft announced record profit for its fiscal quarter ended March 31, the company attributed the blow-out performance to “robust demand” for Windows Vista and its Office 2007 line.

      It’s the old half-empty, half-full phenomenon, and Microsoft, understandably, is optimistic in its assessment. “Some of the leading indicators lead me to believe that people are teeing up to make this the fastest deployed business OS we’ve seen,” says Shanen Boettcher, general manager of Windows client product management. Microsoft reported $1.67 billion in deferred Vista licensing revenue in the March quarter. That means Vista license fees were paid to Microsoft, but it doesn’t mean that all of those Vista copies got loaded onto PCs or that users were thrilled if they did get them. Some companies, the Chicago Tribune among them, replace Vista with Windows XP on new PCs. For a variety of reasons, they’re not yet ready for Vista.

      One key finding of our survey is that Vista is falling short of expectations among a surprisingly high percentage (46%) of business technology pros. Only 19% say it’s meeting expectations, while an oddball 1% grade Vista as “exceeding expectations.” For a third of survey takers, it’s simply too soon to judge.

      Microsoft responds that there’s more to Vista than many customers realize, while security has been strong and incompatibilities few. “It’s an education process,” says Boettcher. “We’re very focused on improving the experience for customers.”

      CR Software, a developer of debt-recovery software, has yet to be wowed by Vista. The company tested its applications on Vista and found that two of them–Firstwave Connect-Care, a CRM product, and iCore Networks’ VoIP softphone–didn’t work. In addition, CR Software determined that many of its PCs would have to be upgraded or replaced for Vista to run properly. “So our strategy is to ignore Vista for a while,” says VP of IT Bob Zwick. “If it ain’t broke …”

      There’s always a lag between Microsoft’s release of a new operating system and widespread business adoption. Windows XP was no exception. “Corporations, for good reason, are notoriously slow to adopt,” Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said last month in a meeting with user-group representatives and other IT community leaders. Ballmer said business use of Vista is at about the same pace as earlier Windows upgrades and in line with Microsoft’s expectations.

      The Chicago Tribune is testing Vista on six machines and evaluating how much tweaking needs to be done to get its custom publishing apps to work with Vista. Tushar Patel, the publisher’s client systems manager, says that it typically takes about three years from the time Microsoft releases a new operating system for the Tribune to complete the upgrade.

      WEll it’s a BIG DUD!!!

      • #2592802

        well i told you months ago that vista security is a big flop

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to recent independent tests have shown what a big flop

        Security built in to Vista fails
        Posted on May 8th, 2007 by Jonathan Schlaffer
        This really shouldn?t come as a surprise. Microsoft touts Vista as the most secure version of Windows yet, find a news article about Vista and chances are the very same thing has been said thousands of times over. Saying it is the most secure version of Windows isn?t really saying much at all.

        Having some spyware protection is better than having none at all but Windows Defender as tested by PC World in the June 2007 issue failed to catch nearly 33% of their test threats and of those it did detect, it failed to remove pieces or active processes of some programs. Almost every other anti-spyware application performed better than Windows Defender but as I said, it?s better than nothing at all.

        User Account Control (UAC) is responsible for those annoying pop up boxes that ask you to perform certain actions like file copying, moving folders and other mundane tasks that XP just let you do without fuss. The problem is they crop up so often it?s almost advantageous for most users to turn UAC off but that defeats the purpose and some programs like Adobe Reader 8 will fail to install if UAC is turned off. The issue here is that people will become accustomed to clicking ?Allow? without actually reading what it is asking for permission to do also defeating the purpose of it.

        While the firewall in Vista is a vast improvement over previous versions of Windows in that it can block both inbound and outbound traffic, outbound protection is off by default and must be configured manually. I?ve found no easy way of configuring the Vista Firewall which can be done through the wf.msc command from the search box; it?s not the easiest thing to use. I recommend ditching the Vista Firewall in favor of the PC Tools Vista Firewall which has both manual and automatic learning modes so you don?t need to set your own rules. Many paid third party suites such as that offered by McAfee includes a firewall, anything paid or free is better than the Vista firewall.

        And this is only a small sampling of the built in features that have failed to live up to their expectations, I didn?t even rehash all the other security problems Vista has been prone to in the past. Windows Defender is by far and away a miserable failure, UAC is well on its way and the Vista Firewall is still lagging behind the likes of PC Tools, Zone Alarm, Comodo and just about anyone who produces firewall software.
        it’s so true

        • #2592801

          i did predict that vista would be useless for gaming

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well i told you months ago that vista security is a big flop

          Vista lowers gaming performance
          Posted on May 9th, 2007 by Jonathan Schlaffer
          But it depends on the game. It has been no secret that games have been performing slightly worse under Vista than the same games do on XP. Some of these games have not seen updates in several months, for some the last update was before Vista released. Not all games were affected in the same way and the drop in performance is completely dependent on the game being played.

          Hard OCP took a look at what they considered to be an ?average? mid-range computer equipped with an Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 processor; 2GB of memory, a 320GB hard drive, all powered by a 380W power supply and tested with both a Geforce 7600GT and 8800GTS under XP and Vista.

          Unfortunately they didn?t bother to run any of the Futuremark benchmarks in their tests which I think is very unfortunate but as some will tell you, artificial benchmarks are meaningless, it just depends on who you talk to. I don?t think they mean as much as actual in-game frame rates but it gives you an idea of what the system is capable of without having to do a lot of real work.

          There are still no DirectX 10 benchmarks for Vista but I expect when games able to take advantage of that come on the market there will be a huge improvement in the performance on Vista for those games.

          The game hit the worst by this was NFS:Carbon (I guess it?s a good thing I don?t like racing games) because it was hit by a performance drop by nearly 50% on Vista vs. XP. One game performed better by a slight margin? World of Warcraft scored better under Vista except for those two other games saw a minor performance drop on Vista but it?s nothing you would notice. Unless the game is dropping below 20fps on a regular basis then you aren?t going to notice any real difference.

          Technically you can say performance is worse in Vista but also take into account that nvdia does not have a final version of their Vista drivers ready, at least not WHQL drivers and the performance drop is very minor on most games with the exception of NFS:Carbon (a game I don?t and never intend to play) and WoW (which performed better) which I also do not play.

          Only time will tell if final WHQL drivers make a difference or how much (if any) improvement DirectX 10 games will see versus DirectX 9 only games.

          who in their right mind will waste their hard earned money

        • #2592799

          Malware hijacks windows vista update component

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to i did predict that vista would be useless for gaming

          Hackers are always finding new ways of compromising system security by hiding files in just about every file type possible but this is a relatively new concept which shows the increasing ?intelligence? of the hacking community. Malware can now be delivered to an already compromised system through the use of the Background Intelligent Transfer service (BITS) which is a component of Windows Update. Is nothing sacred?

          The reason this works is because ALL firewalls automatically trust BITS which makes it easy to piggyback malware onto files being transferred by BITS and this automatically grants the file unlimited access to network resources or the system itself. No file transferred by BITS is scanned for malware or virus infections, everything is automatically trusted.

          Although BITS has been directly affected, there is no reason to suspect that the Windows Update Service itself has been compromised in any way. Computer World spoke with Oliver Friedrichs of Symantec?s Security Response group and he said, ?There is no evidence to suspect that Windows Update can be compromised. If it has a weakness, someone would have found it by now.? That?s probably true.

          In case you?re curious BITS is part of every modern operating system based on NT code which started with Windows XP, was included with Windows Server 2003 and yes Vista has it as well.

          The idea is that once a system has an infected file on it, it will use BITS to download just about anything it wants and install it into the system and because this happens in the background, you won?t notice it. Of course, a quick check of Task Manager could tell you, if you know what to look for.

          The same remains true, don?t download files from unknown sources, don?t open email attachments from people you don?t know, don?t click on unknown links and keep up to date security software even if it requires you to pay for it, just do it.

          I can see it now, security vendors will being building in protection systems for BITS, I?m not saying it would be a bad thing but downloads are bound to take longer if each incoming file is checked for malicious code or behaviors.
          He guys i did predict that it would flop ,ms had the so called experts guessing & eating out of their hand.
          i told you so

        • #2580499

          vista underperforms in test lab dual core setups

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Malware hijacks windows vista update component

          Dual-core processors put PCs into a new categoryDual-core processors crank up the power in desktop systems while using little power … Time and again, Vista dragged down the system?s performance.I did predict that vista would not perform properly given the new archtitecture.

    • #2582080

      Confirmation that ms Bob Me2 is a dud

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Microsoft says ‘EU version’ of Windows Vista a dudBy Paul McDougall 22 May 2007 14:12 AEST Operating Systems A A A

      Company officials say no PC manufacturers have chosen to license the special editions of its operating systems, which are available only in Europe, that lack the Windows Media Player media playback software.

      A senior Microsoft official said the company has had few takers for modified versions of its Windows operating systems built to conform to European competition requirements. David Heiner, Microsoft’s deputy general counsel, said “not a single PC manufacturer has chosen to license” the special editions of its operating systems, which are available only in Europe.

      The software, Windows XP N and Windows Vista N, lacks the Windows Media Player media playback software, which ordinarily is integrated into Microsoft’s operating systems.

      EU regulators ordered Microsoft to unbundle Media Player from some versions of Windows available for sale in Europe after charging that the bundling gave the company an unfair advantage over media player products created by third-party developers. advertisement

      Microsoft, however, was allowed to offer standard editions of Windows for sale in Europe alongside the N editions, allowing consumers to choose between the two.

      Speaking in March to officials at the US Federal Trade Commission, Heiner said European consumers have opted en masse for the full versions of Windows. The N versions, he said, “sit on the shelf.”

      “PC manufacturers and consumers in Europe can now choose to get Windows with or without its media playback functionality. They have chosen the full-featured version of Windows, as might be expected,” said Heiner, according to a transcript of his remarks obtained by InformationWeek.

      Heiner was speaking to FTC officials to urge them to adopt anti-monopoly measures that promote competition rather than restrict consumer choice.

      He said Microsoft’s consent decree with monopoly watchdogs at the Department of Justice is a good example of the former. As a result of the deal, he said, “new Windows PCs come loaded up with software from Microsoft’s competitors” without limiting consumer access to Microsoft’s own products.” By contrast, the EU’s decision to order Microsoft to strip out its own media player technology from some versions of Windows has hurt both Microsoft and its European customers, Heiner said.

      “Costs have been imposed, but there is little apparent benefit for anyone,” he said.

      Microsoft continues to butt heads with European regulators over the prices it charges to competitors for interoperability protocols for file and print servers.

      Microsoft last month dodged – at least temporarily – European Union fines of up to US$4 million (A$4.8 million) per day by submitting an 11th-hour response to allegations that it continues to overcharge rivals for the tools they need to make their products compatible with the Windows operating system.

      The company told the EU that it needs “greater clarity on what prices the commission wants us to charge” and called for more talks on the issue, according to a statement released last month by the software maker.

      In his comments to the FTC, Heiner blasted the EU for inserting itself into talks between Microsoft and third-party product manufacturers.

      “Whether firms choose to take a license, and what kind of products they build with those licenses,” Heiner said, “is of course entirely up to them and outside the control of either Microsoft or any antitrust agency.”

      • #2582077

        why is vista a complete failure

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Confirmation that ms Bob Me2 is a dud

        Windows Vista is a Dud
        This wouldn’t be a new experience. Windows ME was a dud, and most of us can recall Microsoft Bob as a platform that didn’t exactly set the world on fire either. Currently IT buyers are not too excited about Vista, and we are not tracking any budget activity supporting a 2006 ramp-up in big business as a result of its release. Press coverage has been lukewarm at best so far, and it has seemed like every compelling feature that this product was to have had has been removed. This sets a baseline of negative perceptions that create a foundation for failure that is unprecedented in my experience.

        • #2582070

          a complete failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to why is vista a complete failure

          Microsoft admit Vista is a failure [ 21-04-2007 ]

          I’ve been thinking that the uptake of Vista hasn’t been as energetic as maybe the media made it seem initially. For months everyone sang the praises of “Longhorn” as it was once called, but when it was released it seemed to be met with nothing but apathy. This week, Microsoft basically admitted it’s failure.

          Vista promised the world and seemed to deliver a re-skinned XP. People were excited over the new interface, Aero, a new file management system and the early-adopters seemed to be the only people who actually followed through and bought it

        • #2582069

          in reply

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to a complete failure

          Vista has become widely known as Windows Millenium Edition 2 – which was a massive failure too!!!

        • #2582065

          a doomed failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to in reply

          Vista a Spectacular Failure?
          April 30th, 2007
          I haven?t even run Vista. Even though I?m a developer and make my living off Windows application development, I am frankly just not an OS tire kicker. I didn?t buy a Mac until Tiger came out, I still run the stable (_sometimes_ the testing) release of Debian and I haven?t tried Ubuntu as a possible replacement desktop OS. Add to that that I?ve heard way too many nightmare stories about Vista and compatibility issues with old hardware (which I?m not prepared to upgrade just yet) and you see why I?m apparently behind the techy crowd I?m usually up there with. However, as a sideline observer, I have to say, I?m worried and definitely not planning to upgrade to Vista anytime soon, if ever.

          This editorial caught my eye. It posits that Vista is a huge failure and is the latest in a serious of unmaintainable code bases that Microsoft has produced.

          Says Jewell:

          I believe there are a number of factors working together here, principally the high cost of the OS, the need to buy better hardware, driver/hardware incompatibility issues and the plain fact that ? sexy party dress aside ? it?s the same old tart underneath. Contrasting what was originally promised with what was finally delivered, Vista (nee Longhorn) has spectacularly failed.

          That?s quite the statement, but I?m sure Microsoft will continue trucking along. They?ve got a lot of money and a giant share in the corporate desktop OS market which will enable the dough to keep coming in for quite a while.

          But that really isn?t the point. The point is that it appears there is a growing distrust of Microsoft products and Vista in particular in the media and among developers. I?m just not sure I can trust Microsoft anymore. Dell certainly is backtracking on Vista, citing customer complaints, although I wonder how happy Dell is with Vista. Think about this. This is _Dell_. One of the leading pre-built PC manufacturers. This is a huge concession. This is just the latest example though.

          Knowing what I know about software development and hearing what I hear about Vista (even if half of them are false), I just don?t think I am willing to plunk down the cash they are asking for. I really can?t see myself ever running Vista and I don?t think I am alone. Perhaps Microsoft is counting on the unwashed masses not having enough information about their OS choices and all the issues on every side to know any better. But sooner or later they will catch on. If I?m an early adopter of distrust of Microsoft and Vista then eventually we will cross the chasm at which point Microsoft is going to have some big problems.

        • #2582062

          vista is an expensive failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to a doomed failure

          It seems a lot of people (especially those at Microsoft) are constantly extolling all the virtues of the next Microsoft operating system to-be, Windows Vista.

          Am I really the only person who sees it as a dinosaur?

          Admittedly, I?m not the biggest fan of Microsoft software. I?ve dealt with Microsoft for far too long to trust pretty much anything they release. I have struggled with each and every piece of software they have ever released.

          Well, save for one: DOS.

          Mind you, operating systems were a lot simpler back then. They didn?t need to do much. They just needed to provide an environment in which things would work. But the problems with Vista started even back then. Remember the 640k barrier? The workarounds to use the higher memory?

          I?ll wager that the roots of DOS are still there. Sure, they rewrote the whole thing for Windows NT. But have you ever wondered why the requirements for the operating system keep getting larger and larger? Why you need more and more disk space to run it all? Windows XP is supposedly based on Windows NT (as was Server 2003), and I wonder how well all the changes are managed.
          It?s an operating system. It?s supposed to support everything else, not set an initial barrier to entry! There have been press releases about how powerful hardware needs to be in order to get the best experience out of Windows Vista. Any system bought within the last year is likely outta luck ? you don?t have the juice. That just strikes me either as gloriously poor support for the user, or collusion with hardware vendors. Since when do you need a graphics accelerator to view a Word document?

          Okay, I exaggerate ? it will run sans 64 MB of RAM on your video card ? but the statement still seems to baffle the mind. Does Microsoft not think that perhaps there is need to rewrite from the ground up?

          Take the most successful operating system in recent years: UNIX. Not just Linux, but also Mac OSX. The kernel is small. No graphics. It runs. Add on only what you need to make things work. It runs nicely. There are releases of Linux out there that at a glance look like Microsoft Windows. Mac OSX is based (loosely) on the Mach kernel from the vaunted (and lamented) NeXTStep operating system. There?s a reason Macs run sooooo nicely, and it ain?t just the hardware.

          C?mon, Microsoft, if you hope to compete on the desktop space, you need to think much more carefully about your foundation. Crappy foundations lead to crappy experiences.

        • #2582058

          confirmation of a failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista is an expensive failure

          WITH TWO OVERLAPPING events, Microsoft admitted what we have been saying all along, Vista, aka Windows MeII, is a joke that no one wants. It did two unprecedented things this week that frankly stunned us. Dell announced that it would be offering XP again on home PCs.

          The second that Vista came out, Microsoft makes it very hard for you to sell anything other than MeII. It can?t do this on the business side because it would be laughed out the door, but for the walking sheep class, well, you take what you are shovelled. This is classic abusive monopoly behavior, Microsoft wrote the modern book on it.

          It pulled all the major OEMs in by twisting their arms with the usual methods, and they again all fell into line. Never before has anyone backpedalled on this, to do so would earn you the wrath of Microsoft. But Dell just did. This means that MeII sales are at least as bad as we think, the software and driver situation is just as miserable, and Dell had no choice but to buck the trend.

          If anyone thinks this is an act of atonement for foisting such a steaming pile on us, think again, it doesn?t care about the consumer. What happened is the OEMs revolted in the background and forced Microsoft?s hand. This is a big neon sign above MeII saying ?FAILURE?.

    • #2593382

      confirmation of a dud op system

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      According to Milton Ellis, Vice President of Harris Interactive?s Technology Group, “In order to generate that ?WOW? factor, Microsoft will have to put forth a value proposition that will move the majority to the upgrade category in the years ahead. Vista promised better performance result failure, reliability result failure, security completely failed, and a revolutionary user interface a load of copycat crap failed – but it appears consumers looking to upgrade are not ready to buy into the promise whereas new computer buyers will want the latest and greatest ms has failed. Microsoft has faced this challenge before with operating system upgrades. Consumers tend to wait until a few service packs have been released to fix real or perceived problems. No doubt, Microsoft understands theses issues and will proceed accordingly.”I doubt people will act how ms wants thgem to be.

    • #2593379

      confirmation of a dud op systemvista

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      According to Milton Ellis, Vice President of Harris Interactive?s Technology Group, “In order to generate that ?WOW? factor, Microsoft will have to put forth a value proposition that will move the majority to the upgrade category in the years ahead. Vista promised better performance result failure, reliability result failure, security completely failed, and a revolutionary user interface a load of copycat crap failed – but it appears consumers looking to upgrade are not ready to buy into the promise whereas new computer buyers will want the latest and greatest ms has failed. Microsoft has faced this challenge before with operating system upgrades. Consumers tend to wait until a few service packs have been released to fix real or perceived problems. No doubt, Microsoft understands theses issues and will proceed accordingly.”I doubt people will act how ms wants thgem to be.

    • #2593378

      confirmation of a dud op systemvista errors

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      According to Milton Ellis, Vice President of Harris Interactive?s Technology Group, “In order to generate that ?WOW? factor, Microsoft will have to put forth a value proposition that will move the majority to the upgrade category in the years ahead. Vista promised better performance result failure, reliability result failure, security completely failed, and a revolutionary user interface a load of copycat crap failed – but it appears consumers looking to upgrade are not ready to buy into the promise whereas new computer buyers will want the latest and greatest ms has failed. Microsoft has faced this challenge before with operating system upgrades. Consumers tend to wait until a few service packs have been released to fix real or perceived problems. No doubt, Microsoft understands theses issues and will proceed accordingly.”I doubt people will act how ms wants thgem to be.

    • #2593376

      confirmation of a dud op systemvista errors in

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      According to Milton Ellis, Vice President of Harris Interactive?s Technology Group, “In order to generate that ?WOW? factor, Microsoft will have to put forth a value proposition that will move the majority to the upgrade category in the years ahead. Vista promised better performance result failure, reliability result failure, security completely failed, and a revolutionary user interface a load of copycat crap failed – but it appears consumers looking to upgrade are not ready to buy into the promise whereas new computer buyers will want the latest and greatest ms has failed. Microsoft has faced this challenge before with operating system upgrades. Consumers tend to wait until a few service packs have been released to fix real or perceived problems. No doubt, Microsoft understands theses issues and will proceed accordingly.”I doubt people will act how ms wants thgem to be.

    • #2593375

      vista errors in java

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Windows Vista Notes
      The following notes apply to use of this release on Windows Vista platforms.

      On Windows Vista, there is a more restrictive sandbox for signed applets. A user has fewer privileges than if they were running on another Windows OS.

      On a Windows OS other than Windows Vista, when running a signed applet, a user is prompted with a security warning dialog box and must respond. If “Yes” is clicked, the applet will have AllPermissions to run on the user’s machine. This includes permission to write/delete a file from the local disk.

      On a Windows Vista OS, this is no longer true. Instead, AllPermissions is limited to Java Applet scope, not Windows scope. Because a process running in IE has a low integrity level, it will not be able to write/delete a file from a medium/high integrity level directory.

      A signed JNLP application can run only with medium integrity. Granting AllPermissions in a Java Web Start application only permits the Security Manager to allow operations that it would otherwise deny by throwing SecurityExceptions. It does not in any way elevate the permissions a user or a process has on the system.

      For example, a typical (non-admin) user might only be able to read and write files within their own home directory (unless other directories are specifically created to allow permissions to all users).

      User Experience Changes for HTTPS Connections

      On Windows Vista OS, several new behaviors (refer to bug report 6408329) have been introduced in the area of security and user experience for HTTPS connections. They are as follows:

      HTTPS Certificate

      IE7 blocks navigation to HTTPS sites that present a digital certificate having any of the following problems:

      Certificate was issued to a hostname other than the current URL’s hostname.
      Certificate was issued by an untrusted root.
      Certificate is expired.
      Certificate is revoked.

      Upon encountering a digital certificate problem, IE7 presents an error page that explains the problem. The user may choose to ignore the warning and proceed in spite of the certificate error (unless the certificate was revoked). If the user clicks through a certificate error page, the address bar flood fills with red to serve as a persistent notification of the problem.

      Mixed-Content Prompt

      A user no longer sees the so-called Mixed-Content prompt, which read:

      “This page contains both secure and nonsecure items.
      Do you want to see the nonsecure items?
      IE7 renders only the secure content and offers the user the opportunity to unblock the nonsecure content using the Information Bar.

      New Default Protocol Mode

      IE7 of Windows Vista has changed the default HTTPS protocol setting to disable the weaker SSLv2 protocol and to enable the stronger TLSv1 protocol.

      With the above changes in IE7 of Windows Vista, a Java plugin user will see different behavior when running their applets.

      AutoDownload of JREs is Disabled in the Control Panel

      Since the posted autodl bundles cannot run on Vista (without being re-written, and re-staged for all releases) the autodl feature is turned off by default, and the entry is disabled in the advanced tab of the Control Panel.

      Change Cache Location Dialog Disabled in the Control Panel

      Since the cache location must be set to a low-integrity directory, the ability to change it is disabled in the control panel. Refer to bug report 6422509.

      Java Plug-in Extension Installer Mechanism may Fail for a Non-administrator User Running in IE

      The extension install mechanism added to plugin in 1.4.2 uses Runtime.exec() to run a java extension installer (running java -jar ), or to run a native extension (running ). Normally these installers do things like write files to the lib/ext directory of the jre. These processes will run with the same limited privileges the user has, so may fail when (for example) writing a file where the user has no permission to write.

      This problem would also apply to any Java Web Start application that attempts to install an extension in lib/ext (though this is not a common practice).

      Refer to bug report 6432317.

      Gamesville- Bottle Rocket Applet Fails to Load

      This issue is related to the new Javascript implementation in IE7. A Microsoft bug (140684) has been filed and is under investigation by Microsoft.

      Yahoo-Finance Stock Screener Applet Fails to Load

      This bug is due to user error. The application checks for IE6 and then reverts to a pre-IE6 behavior that is incompatible with IE7. This change/limitation is documented by Microsoft.

      Refer to bug report 6421625.

      Icon Cannot be Added to Tray from an Applet Running Under IE7 on Vista

      Attempting to add an icon to the system tray fails silently, without exceptions. This is the result of security tightening in Internet Explorer 7.

      Refer to bug report 6419042.

      On Windows Vista, the use of DirectDraw for hardware acceleration is currently disabled by default because of incompatibilities with Vista’s Desktop Window Manager.

      The -Dsun.java2d.noddraw=false property can be used to re-enable the use of the DirectDraw pipeline. However, this is not recommended due to rendering artifacts and performance problems. To also enable the Direct3D pipeline, a combination of the aforementioned flag and -Dsun.java2d.d3d=true should be used.

      See bug report 6343853 for more information.

      Java SE 6 applications/applets (standalone, Java Plug-in, Java Web Start) do not support running in Windows XP Compatibility Mode.

      Java Control Panel: Under the advanced tab, the Default Java for browser checkboxes does not work for a standard user. To workaround the issue, you will need to run the Java Control Panel as an administrator.

      See bug report 6486929 for more information.

      Java Control Panel: Upon exit of Java Control Panel, you might see a Program Compatibility Assistant dialog box displayed by Windows Vista. We recommend choosing “This control panel works correctly” so that the dialog does not appear again next time you exit Java Control Panel.

      Choosing “Open the control panel using recommended settings” causes Java Control Panel to work incorrectly. To undo the setting, you will need to remove the following registry entry that contains javacpl.cpl or jpicpl32.cpl:

      HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\AppCompatFlags\Compatiblity Assistant\Persisted
      HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\AppCompatFlags\Layers

      See bug report 6485081 for more information.

      From the Desktop folder, attempts to choose a user directory or the Public directory will fail. For example:

      Open a JFileChooser under the Windows Look and Feel.
      Click the Desktop button on the left.
      Try to enter either your own or the Public directory from the desktop. It won’t go into the directory. No exceptions are thrown on the console.

      A workaround is to enter these directories by other means. For example:

      c: -> c:/users/ -> c:/users/
      c: -> c:/users/ -> c:/users/Public

      See bug report 6488081 for more information.

      When using JFileChooser under the Ocean look and feel, user and Public directories are not shown properly when viewed from the Desktop folder (click Look In, select Desktop), or in the Look In combo box. Instead they are shown as a long sequence of letters/digits. Selecting these sequences does not allow you to enter the directories.

      To access these directories, use the work-around mentioned above for 6488081.

      See bug report 6488082 for more information.

      JFileChooser has a Recent Items button under the win

    • #2590296

      why vista is a failure with business

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Vista in slow lane for Aussie CIOs
      Munir Kotadia and Renai LeMay,

      A majority of chief information officers and administrators of Australian companies polled by ZDNet Australia are in no rush to roll out Microsoft Vista because the operating system requires too much processing power and doesn’t provide a compelling business case to upgrade.

      However, a handful from the education sector have moved swiftly to embrace the new operating system.

      Those who said they will eventually deploy Vista will wait until their hardware requires a refresh and Microsoft has released at least one service pack (for Vista).

      This will stymie the software giant’s plan of making Vista more successful than its predecessor, Windows XP. Twelve months after the release of Vista, Microsoft expects that usage share of the operating system in businesses will be double that of XP, said Brad Goldberg, general manager for Windows product management.

      “Vista is built for businesses,” Goldberg said. “We’re giving businesses the tools they need to get out of the gate faster with Vista… Our goal is to have twice as fast deployment of Vista than for any other operating system.”

      Sharam Hekmat, the CIO of global insurance firm Aviva in Australia, told ZDNet Australia that neither Windows Vista or Microsoft’s upcoming update to its Office suite are very compelling.

      “I’m not excited about either of them. Generally the approach I take to commodity software — and these are clearly commodity software — is we have to evaluate them based on their true business value,” he said.

      Hekmat believes there is currently “no business justification to move to the next version”. However, he expects that to change in a few years as new applications are released that require Vista or security issues make the upgrade more compelling.

      “We might start facing interoperability issues or there might be a need to upgrade to these new versions because of security concerns, virus protection measures and so on. These are usually the things that eventually get you? So we’ll wait for that time to come.

      “That might be two year’s time or three year’s time but we’re certainly not going to be a first cab off the rank to convert to these products,” Hekmat said.

      The New South Wales Department of Commerce is also taking a cautious approach. It currently runs Windows XP SP2 and recently upgraded its enterprise resource planning (ERP) application but when it comes to a new operating system, the department’s general manager of Information Management and Technology, Geoff Tye, said he had “no immediate plans to upgrade to Vista”.

      “I’d expect that we would move to Vista within two to three years to more than likely allow integration with revised application software as it became available under that platform,” said Tye.

      Accountancy group PKF Australia, which recently moved around 800 users from Lotus Notes to Microsoft Exchange, could not see any reason to adopt Vista until 2008.

      The group’s chief information officer Mark Carmichael said: “At the moment there’s no glaring benefit to us”.

      Aviva’s Hekmat also cited cost as a barrier to the adoption of Vista: “For us, a migration such as moving from XP to Vista, is not a cheap exercise, it’s quite expensive … it can be quite disruptive as well.

      “There is the cost of implementation and then there is the negative cost of impact to the business? We have to consider those, versus the true value they deliver. And of course, unfortunately with Microsoft, often the value is very marginal,” said Hekmat.

      Meanwhile, the University of Tasmania’s IT director John Parry said he did not want to deploy Vista without first putting it through an “appropriate testing regime”.

      “We’re adopting a wait and see attitude. It’s not something that we’re really going to be dependent on because we’ve got quite a modern standard operating environment at the moment,” said Parry.

      Cost has also been flagged as an issue when considering a Vista upgrade. Apart from the additional hardware costs, the operating system is far from cheap.

      Ready for Vista
      However, not everyone has labelled Vista a low priority upgrade. Some organisations have ensured that their most recent hardware purchases will cope with Vista’s processing demands and have placed key employees through training programmes.

      Central Queensland University (CQU) is well advanced with its Vista plans. The university’s manager of corporate systems administration, Adrian Yarrow, said: “Since the beginning of this year, we actually set all of our desktop purchasing standards to be compatible”.

      He also revealed that two of CQU’s IT staff have undertaken Vista training with Microsoft.

      Perth’s Edith Cowan University (ECU) is also looking at being an early adopter, with IT director Mark Ridge admitting that some staff have been preparing for Vista since June.

      One compelling reason for ECU adopting Vista is improved administrator rights.

      “We had a couple of sessions with Microsoft, and I suppose did a checkpoint of our own environment and where we’re at? They’ve come back with some thoughts on helping us and the issues we need to look at doing in our Vista rollout,” Ridge said.

      Aviva’s Hekmat was not surprised that many of the early adopters are universities.

      “Universities do tend to be at the bleeding edge — their situation is so different, because in terms of corporate data, their investment is not huge. Whereas in a commercial environment it’s quite the opposite,” he said.

      “Vista could have been, in my mind, a service pack for XP. But of course, if Microsoft do that then they’ll have to give it away for free, whereas now, they can generate a few billion dollars of revenue through this.

      “So that’s the reality behind it. Great for [Microsoft], but not so good .

      • #2590292

        no backward compatibility

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to why vista is a failure with business

        During the beta testing phase, a lot of testers were frustrated by the lack of backwards compatibility with Windows XP applications

        • #2590290

          the success of vista hinges on software compatibility

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to no backward compatibility

          Jay Roxe, a group product manager in Microsoft’s developer division, said that the company is seeing a lot of new applications from users who wouldn’t normally be considered software developers. But it takes more time for those with existing products, he said.

          “There are a lot of people that have existing code bases that will evolve their applications to take advantage of Vista over time, some more rapidly than others,” he said.

          While some companies are well ahead with Vista-optimised software, others may take months or even years to appear. In part, that’s because developers don’t want to target a new operating system until a significant part of its users are running the new software.

          At this point, many developers are focusing on making sure that their programs will merely run on Vista, rather than adding new capabilities, for example Adobe Systems.

          Creators of professional programs have a much harder time just starting over. With Photoshop, for example, Adobe aims to keep the program looking modern, but wants to keep the controls and palettes in the places people expect rather than overhauling the user interface.

          John Nack, a senior product manager for Photoshop, said that the company doesn’t want to change things in a way that would force its users to forsake the hundreds or thousands of hours of muscle memory they have built up in the current generation of products.

          Adobe has released a test version of Adobe Photoshop CS3, the next version of the program, which will support Vista. “If somebody is moving to Vista, I think CS3 is going to be a great fit,” he said. “I wouldn’t say that you necessarily should upgrade (to Vista) because there is some particular feature we are leveraging.”

          One of the technologies that Microsoft has been working for years to bring into Windows for years is support for 64-bit computing. The company introduced a 64-bit version of Windows XP a couple of years ago, but it remains a niche product.

          Nack said that Adobe would have to see considerable performance gains to justify the effort needed to create a 64-bit version of Photoshop.

          The company is already straining to restructure its software to better use the additional processor cores that are becoming standard in PCs. “Making sure the cores aren’t going to waste — that’s a big challenge for us,” Nack said.

          Vista is also creating some new real estate for programmers, in particular the Sidebar that sits on the side of a Vista screen and houses widgets. Roxe also sees promise in its SideShow technology, basically small secondary displays that sit on the outside of a notebook or on a keyboard and offer notifications for appointments, incoming e-mail, and so on. Because SideShow has to be built into new hardware, it may take some time before there are enough people with it to attract significant developer efforts.

          “It will be a little bit longer until end users see it, but the sidebar runs right out of the box,” Roxe said. He noted that developers are already creating a lot of Sidebar gadgets, in part because the tiny applications are easy to write.

          Software makers that write large programs, such as sales force automation or other business programs, also can use a sidebar gadget to complement their existing products, offering a quick snapshot of data without needing to open up the full program or shift windows.

          Roxe said he is hopeful that Microsoft’s focus on security with Vista will ultimately free developers to spend more time on their creative efforts.

          “Since we’ve reduced the attack surface area, developers have to spend less time worrying about protecting against attacks, which gives them more time to focus on the real purpose of their application.”

          precious time is not what people have.

        • #2590283

          ozzies get the raw end of the carrot

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to the success of vista hinges on software compatibility

          Contrary to prior reports, Microsoft also confirmed that a service dubbed Windows Anytime Upgrade, which allows users to switch between versions of Vista by buying a registration code online, will not be available in Australia.

          Individuals and businesses with subscriptions can still download Vista and Office 2007 for testing purposes only from Microsoft’s Developer Network (MSDN). However Marketplace’s limitations will likely mean most Australians will still need to buy the products on hard media.

          Microsoft started selling Vista and Office 2007 to businesses last November,supposedly with consumers to get access to the new software from January 30.

          Microsoft Australia managing director Tracey Fellows and Harvey Norman chairman Gerry Harvey will personally sell the first copy of Windows Vista at midnight on January 29 in the retailer’s Alexandria, Sydney branch.

          That exclusive version of Windows Vista Ultimate will come signed by Microsoft chairman Bill Gates and be sold to the winner of a raffle. A number of other Harvey Norman stores across Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane will also be open for several hours at that time, offering 10 percent hardware discounts and giveaways to customers for an hour after midnight.
          what a joke!

        • #2590278

          vista is more vulnerable

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ozzies get the raw end of the carrot

          Mike Reavey, operations manager at Microsoft?s Security Response Centre, revealed last Friday that Vista is vulnerable to a flaw that allows a malicious hacker to escalate user privileges within several versions of Windows.

          Proof-of-concept code that exploits the code has been posted online, Reavey said in a blog posting, adding that Microsoft isn’t yet aware of any malware that takes advantage of it.

          “Initial indications are that in order for the attack to be successful, the attacker must already have authenticated access to the target system,” wrote Reavey.

          “While I know this is a vulnerability that impacts Windows Vista I still have every confidence that Windows Vista is our most secure platform to date. As always, we here at the MSRC encourage everyone to enable a firewall, apply all security updates and install anti-virus and anti-spyware software,” he added.

          Vista is Microsoft’s first operating system release in five years. The company had repeatedly emphasised that it is more secure than previous versions, having been extensively rewritten.

          One major change in Vista is that users accounts are created with administrator privileges turned off by default, unlike in XP where they are automatically turned on. Microsoft has cited this change as a key security change, as these administrator powers can be used to turn off other security measures.

          As such, this flaw could put Vista users at risk. However, Mikko Hypp?nen, chief research officer with Finnish security company F-Secure, has already said that the flaw it should not concern corporate or individual users as a malicious hacker can’t take advantage of it unless they already have access to their machine

        • #2590272

          to prove vista is quite hackable

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista is more vulnerable

          It’s very difficult to implement a 100 percent-efficient kernel protection.”

          To stage the attack, however, Vista needs to be running in administrator mode, Rutkowska acknowledged. That means her attack would be foiled by Microsoft’s User Account Control, a Vista feature that runs a PC with fewer user privileges. UAC is a key Microsoft effort to prevent malicious code from being able to do as much damage as on a PC running in administrator mode, a typical setting on Windows XP.

          “I just hit accept,” Rutkowska replied to a question from the audience about how she bypassed UAC. Because of the many security pop-ups in Windows, many users will do the same without realising what they are allowing, she said.

          Microsoft has touted Vista as its most secure version of Windows yet. It is the first operating system client to go through the company’s Security Development Lifecycle, a process to vet code and stamp out flaws before a product ships.

          “Windows Vista has many layers of defence, including the firewall, running as a standard user, Internet Explorer Protected Mode, /NX support, and ASLR, which help prevent arbitrary code from running with administrative privileges,” the Microsoft representative noted.

          After the presentation on bypassing the driver shield, Rutkowska presented a way to create the stealthy malicious software she code-named Blue Pill. The technique uses Pacifica, a Secure Virtual Machine, from chipmaker Advanced Micro Devices, to go undetected.

          Blue Pill could serve as a backdoor for attackers, Rutkowska said. While it was developed on Vista and AMD’s technology, it should also work on other operating systems and hardware platforms. “Some people suggested that my work is sponsored by Intel, as I focused on AMD virtualisation technology only,” she said, adding that is untrue.

          vista is a security joke!

        • #2590266

          the rocky road to vista migration

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to to prove vista is quite hackable

          Vista migration: the rocky road
          Oliver Rist, Information Age

          12/05/2007 14:16:52

          Certainly no coincidence, Microsoft has decked out its much-anticipated OS upgrade with beautiful landscape wallpapers — vistas, to be exact. But, as calming as these background images may be for end-users getting acquainted with Vista, for IT directors, the landscape approaching an enterprise rollout of any new Windows operating system has always been rocky.

          Convincing management with compelling ROI, quelling grumpy user rebellions and making sure the whole thing doesn’t blow up in your face are by now well-known impediments along any Windows migration path. It’s enough to make IT departments considering the journey downright cautious.

          And cautious many are. “The majority of companies, particularly in the medium and large sector, are telling us that it’s going to be between one and two years when they actually adopt Windows Vista,” says Stephen Minton, an analyst at IDC. According to a recent Equs Group survey, 26 per cent of companies plan to migrate to Vista this year, as opposed to 53 per cent in 2008 and 16 per cent in 2009.

          All this reluctance despite the fact that Microsoft has gone to great lengths to make the Vista deployment process as easy on IT administrators as possible — probably more so than with any previous version of Windows. Yet deploying Vista will still be as big an architectural leap as going from Windows 98 to Windows 2000. As such, expect no shortage of hurdles along the way.

          Chief among these hurdles, ironically, will be users themselves, as many IT managers already en route to Vista land are finding that their users simply don’t want Vista.

          What they’re really after are Office 2007 and Exchange 2007 — business-critical apps they perceive as essential to getting their work done. So much so that almost any thought of winding your way toward Vista should lend credence to bringing one or both of these platforms along.

          The whole hog or not at all? “It’s the Microsoft trifecta,” says Mike Connelly, vice president of IT at training and productivity-tool provider FranklinCovey, referring to the confluence of upgrades to Exchange, Office and Windows. Connelly has already rolled out Exchange 2007 and is currently rolling out Vista and Office as a single package. “Microsoft’s marketing has made the combination really compelling to our users. And it’s easier all around, since for our users, Vista hasn’t been that much of a learning curve. Office is the big jump, so we’re trying to give them all the functionality up front.”

          “Office 2007 is definitely a driver for Vista deployment,” says Larry LeSueur, vice president of infrastructure and security at Avanade, an Accenture-owned consultancy that specialises in large Microsoft consulting projects. Avanade currently has 33 Vista rollout projects under way worldwide.

          “The ability to create custom and ongoing applications using Vista and Office 2007 is simply too attractive for our customers to ignore,” LeSueur says, citing custom business research apps Avanade is helping to create in the oil and gas industry and the health-care sector using Office 2007, Office SharePoint Server 2007, and Exchange 2007.

          That isn’t to say that Vista on its own is an industry dud. It’s more that companies deploying the new OS right away are, for the most part, largely dependent on Office. Administrators at these companies simply can’t ignore the fact that Vista was released in conjunction with quantum leaps forward in, arguably, Microsoft’s other two most popular platforms.

          “More so than ever, the operating system is just such a small piece to the user,” says Stan Foster, research fellow and Microsoft specialist at Hewlett-Packard’s service division, which helps HP customers manage rollouts and provides additional services such as managed desktop outsourcing. “It’s the applications that are important to the business people. All these components [Vista, Office 2007, Exchange 2007] have individual benefits, but combined — that’s where the action is.”

          And though it may not simply be a matter of whole-hog deployment of the Microsoft trifecta or nothing at all, from a planning perspective, it’s certainly easier to consider Vista, Office, and Exchange as a holistic combination rather than starting over from scratch each time.

          Both Office 2007 and Exchange 2007 offer significant, new, user-facing features that could well influence management buy-in far more than Aero’s pretty face. Figuring out the right feature combination means charting the best course to ROI, and that, in turn, is the best path to getting management on board — a path that requires identifying the combination of these three platforms that will offer the most to your user set and then building your rollout plan around those features.

          Fortunately, this is one area where Microsoft has done a considerable amount of work — especially from an eat-your-own-dog-food perspective. “For us, deploying Vista definitely meant deploying Office 2007 simultaneously,” says Ron Markezich, vice president of managed solutions at Microsoft, and formerly the company’s CIO.

          Microsoft at present already has 64,000 Vista desktops deployed and previously had 107,000 Exchange 2007 mailboxes rolled out. Markezich cites the new Windows Imaging capability that’s included with Vista as a key driver for the decision to perform both product upgrades at the same time.

          “It’s just so much easier than with previous imaging packages,” says Chad Lewis, Microsoft’s Vista deployment product lead. “Remember, we don’t just deploy Vista or Office once, like our customers. We’ve had to deploy several builds of both at regular intervals. The ability to keep our WIM [Windows Imaging Format] file library small and easily tailored has made the whole process just so much easier.”

          Microsoft has configured its upgrade process to allow certain users to upgrade their own machines at their own pace when going from Windows XP/Office 2003 to Vista/Office 2007. But once on the new platform, Microsoft uses a forced SMS (Systems Management Server) 2003 upgrade process to make sure that users on Vista stay current with new builds. “The nice thing is that we can use the same WIM library for both operations,” Lewis says.

          Gut check: software compatibility That’s a rosy picture Microsoft paints for its own wares, but even with this brace of new deployment tools, Vista’s radically redesigned new innards will still have a significant impact on mission-critical line-of-business apps.

          “Software remediation is definitely the most important upgrade step across all our customers. It really drives the rest of the rollout process,” Avanade’s LeSueur says. “Our own internal rollout, for example, we’re halfway through, but our accounting department will have to come last because one of their critical software applications is going to need more time to become fully Vista-compliant.”

          Figuring out what’s running on the network — including a full software and hardware portfolio — will be the most crucial prep step for every enterprise Vista rollout. Fortunately, much of this can be accomplished with existing desktop management tools.

          “[Vista has] been a great business driver for us,” says Tony Thomas, senior product manager at Numara, the software company behind Track-It, a popular desktop management and asset management platform. “In fact, we’re creating a customer Web portal specific to Vista deployments, including the steps you should take, the features we do and don’t offer, and the ability to ask questions. We want to help them as much as possible with this process, and our software puts us in a unique position to do that.”

          In addition to the portal, Thomas says Track-It has received new features specific to the Vista predeployment process. “We’ve added reports designed specifically to let our customers see what machines are equipped to run Vista and what their overall software portfolio looks like,” he says. “The intention for us is to facilitate the planning as much as we can, then facilitate the rollout, and finally give them the tools they need to measure ROI.”

          And those are the right brush strokes whether you’re using Numara’s or another system — but don’t expect such systems to do all the work for you. No desktop management system catches everything. A complete software inventory still takes serious staff legwork, which drives up costs. The trick is to keep those costs as low as possible.

          A key worry that many readers have expressed in terms of software compatibility rests with desktop antivirus. With the redesigned Vista kernel, existing Windows XP antivirus packages won’t run on Vista. This situation has folks with hundreds or thousands of antivirus client licences concerned about how upgrading will affect their budgets. Fortunately, antivirus vendors are taking the sensible approach.

          “We had no problem with having to purchase additional Symantec licences,” FranklinCovey’s Connelly says. “Under our corporate licence, this was considered a feature upgrade, and we didn’t have to pay anything extra. Symantec got us the code, and we’ve made it part of our WIM files.” Although grateful for Symantec’s stance on the redesign, Connelly isn’t leaving well enough alone. He’s taking the opportunity to evaluate other desktop security platforms, notably Windows Live OneCare — yet another benefit of an organised software remediation and planning phase.

          Gut check: hardware performance “Definitely, a managed desktop resource is a huge help when planning for Vista,” HP’s Foster says. “But you’re still going to need to do some heavy manual lifting. There’s no escaping that.” And it’s with hardware where this lifting will be the heaviest, especially as hardware assessment will be a far more important part of the Vista migration planning process than it has been for the past couple of Windows generations.

          When it comes to hardware, Microsoft has been downplaying Vista’s requirements. The truth is that the OS is built to take advantage of the latest hardware developments. As such, deploying Vista over older hardware will generate issues. That means surveying the hardware landscape is another critical step — one that simply cannot be done with software tools alone. And then there’s that other thing …

          “It’s the testing,” Foster continues. Older hardware needs to be tested for optimal performance before a rollout, and that’s strictly a manual process. “Hardware that’s even a year old may have compatibility or performance problems. Video is the one everyone talks about, but RAM is just as important, as are older versions of things like Wi-Fi or Bluetooth,” he says.

          Not surprisingly, you’ll get the same message from the big hardware vendors. “Sure, you can run Vista on old hardware, but don’t. Do it on new hardware, and you’ll be better off all around,” says Greg Bryant, vice president of the business client group at Intel. That “all around” refers less to features than it does to a perceived ease of deployment when new hardware is involved. By waiting for current hardware lease agreements to run their course, enterprises can reduce the rollout process to simply saving and restoring user data. The new operating system and application portfolio can be handled by the hardware vendor or VAR.

          “We’re getting a lot of customer interest in that aspect of our service offerings,” HP’s Foster says. HP’s service division can help HP customers with hardware purchasing and post-purchase support, but the division also specialises in custom support as well. Customers can define a desktop software library, and Foster’s crew will test for Vista compatibility, build the WIM libraries, maintain them, and even roll out the images, either at HP’s site or at the customer’s.

          “A completely outsourced corporate desktop is becoming one of our more popular service offerings,” Foster says. “For many customers, it’s just the easiest way.”

          That’s a tempting carrot at first blush, providing both an easier implementation and gleaming new hardware. And Intel’s Bryant sweetens the deal with the mention of enhanced features. Which, of course, sounds like what a motherboard salesman would say, but when queried on specifics, Intel really does have features to back this up.

          “We’ve specifically optimised our CPU line for both Vista and specific apps in Office,” Bryant says. “Take Excel, for example. Our Core 2 Duo is specifically designed to boot the performance of large Excel calculations — and we’re not talking a small number, either. We’re talking about 300 per cent of improvement of the same calc run on hardware that’s only a year old.”

          Intel has also done serious work on Vista’s mobile side. InfoWorld testing has shown that notebooks with last year’s embedded Intel graphics chip set — the most popular mobile graphics system for the “value/business” notebook segment — don’t have the juice to run Aero. Vista’s own installation process automatically defaults to the non-Aero view when installed on these systems. Intel knew this would be a problem going forward and beefed up its chip set earlier this year.

          “We can’t comment on how hardware OEMs implement our chip sets,” Bryant says, “but we can say that the integrated graphics line does currently support the full Vista graphics load.” This was borne out in a quick impromptu test I conducted on a Gateway M255-E delivered last May running the then-current Intel graphics subsystem. That machine couldn’t run Aero. Gateway then sent the same model in November, armed with a Core 2 Duo CPU and a newer Intel Graphics Media Accelerator chip set. That machine is running Aero without difficulty.

          “New hardware definitely does make a difference,” Bryant says. And he references not just graphics oomph but management muscle as well. New versions of Intel CPUs and chip sets will incorporate features such as out-of-band management, remote updating, advanced hardware diagnostics, and similar goodies. And again, Vista-specific features are included here on Intel’s part as well.

          “Our Active Management Technology provides these new management and security features,” Bryant says. “As far as Vista goes, we’ve built features specific to the Vista desktop firewall directly into hardware, which means that security is no longer software-only.”

          Of course, both Foster and Bryant represent hardware manufacturers. Talk to an everyday IT administrator and your answers might be different. “The new hardware’s great, but we’re not waiting for it,” FranklinCovey’s Connelly says. “We’ve tested it, and we think it runs fine in 512MB or 1GB. The WIM tools are good enough that we can do the OS rollout right now and give our users the Office features they want without waiting for new hardware. We can add those advanced features later.”

          According to Connelly, FranklinCovey’s network carries approximately 800 distributed users, placing it on the small end of the enterprise rollout scale. Although the lower desktop count undoubtedly had something to do with Connelly’s decision to run his rollout across the existing hardware landscape, this isn’t a trend that’s relegated to the SMB segment. LeSueur says Avanade’s large enterprise customers aren’t following the hardware lease rollout plan, either.

          “Enterprises are evaluating Vista based on internal TCO, not initial hardware costs,” LeSueur says. “With Microsoft’s advances in software deployment tools, scheduling the rollout around lease agreements doesn’t interest them. Better to focus on software compatibility and mission-critical testing.” Just get your users what they need. Hardware purchasing doesn’t have to be affected at all.

          Too much too quickly? It’s the first time in more than a decade that Redmond has released this many product platforms at once.

          Microsoft, as you’d expect, is extremely pleased with the current state of its deployment tools, as well as its product release schedule. And make no mistake, consultants such as Avanade’s LeSueur and HP’s Foster see no downside to a large volume of simultaneous Microsoft platform upgrades, either. That would be termed “bread and butter” to those folks. But IT administrators living without Microsoft consultants aren’t quite as happy about having to swallow so much at once.

          “It’s definitely a concern,” Connelly says. “I’m a cautious guy, and typically, I’d be doing the server upgrades first, one at a time, and follow those with the desktop upgrades. But Microsoft releasing three new platforms at once doesn’t happen very often. That’s put us in a spot, plus we were moving to Microsoft CRM as well.” So at the moment, Connelly has separated his server upgrades from his desktop upgrades, but he is forced to roll out several new desktop platforms simultaneously while still testing a new server back end. “So far, it’s working fine, but it’s definitely a worry.”

          The cautious perspective to be sure, but that’s not to say it can’t be done. Justin Ainsworth, senior IT manager at Sierra Nevada Brewing, is in the same boat but is taking the Redmond product blitz in stride.

          “We’re just taking it one step at a time,” Ainsworth says. “Being in the Vista TAP [Technology Adoption Program] program definitely helped. That gave us a lot of early experience that’s really paying off now that we’re rolling out companywide. Also, you should very closely check out the Business Desktop Deployment [BDD] guide materials. That’s very good stuff and definitely worth reading before a rollout.”

          Overall, the perspectives Connelly and Ainsworth offer are well representative of the current viewpoint IT administrators have on Microsoft’s product cornucopia: It’s a lot of material, but taking it one step at a time will see them through. Their confidence in and appreciation of Vista’s new deployment tools are mirrored in InfoWorld’s testing — as will be demonstrated in an upcoming Test Center review currently in the works.

          “This time around, the key is really the planning,” Connelly says. And although that’s true of any Windows upgrade scenario, this time Microsoft’s new deployment tools seem to be making the effort worthwhile.

          Making it to the end of any Windows migration journey is arduous and painful. Thankfully, those embarking on this path are not alone. Advice abounds, much of it worthwhile. Everyone we spoke with emphasised that taking careful stock of both the software and hardware landscape should be the critical launching point for any migration to Vista. And rather than worry about budget concerns or hardware purchasing issues, mission-critical business drivers should dictate the schedule of your deployment.

          Most important, the act of rolling out the software is all about preparation. Take the time to test Microsoft’s deployment tools and become familiar with the deployment guidelines presented in the BBD.

          “Yeah, there’s a lot of stuff,” Sierra Nevada’s Ainsworth says. “But we’re just taking it at our own pace.”

          Words to live by.

          [sidebar] Vista/Office upgrade offers threats and promises

          By Dale Dixon

          Here are five practical steps for a smooth Vista/Office upgrade

          There’s both opportunity and risk in a combined deployment of Vista and Office, but organisations can tip the scales significantly in the right direction by following some practical steps.

          On one hand, deploying Vista and Office 2007 at the same time is a good opportunity to avoid the pain that can accompany staggered migrations, such as a major Operating System (OS) upgrade followed by an application suite upgrade six to twelve months later.

          However, on the flip side, it’s a major task to ensure all company PCs meet the hardware and software specifications, that all applications are compatible and that licence costs are optimised based on real business needs.

          Here are five recommendations to make the process easier:

          1. Don’t install more software The first step in a successful deployment of new software is taking an inventory of existing software across the business.

          One of the challenges in taking software inventory is the number of software solutions that require a software agent to be installed onto every PC to gather the information. This is somewhat self-defeating, because rolling out a new piece of software to all desktops can be a lengthy and costly process in itself.

          When a software vendor offers a “zero-touch” solution, ask them what they mean: is it a true zero-touch solution, where a PC can be analysed without new software being installed, or does it still require installation of software using a managed process?

          2. Get the right level of detail in software inventories When planning for a software upgrade, you’ll need to know both the product names and major versions of products installed on desktops, as well as the specific patch level of each product on each PC.

          Some software inventory solutions will tell you that one PC has DesktopApp 1.23.4 while another PC has DesktopApp 1.30.0, but from a licensing perspective that may be the difference between DesktopApp Standard 2000 and DesktopApp Pro 2003.

          Likewise, some inventory solutions base their data collection on the installer evidence logged by Windows; others look at executables and their version numbers, but most have difficulty correctly grouping the many ‘dot’ releases of programs and providing a summary report.

          Your inventory solution should ideally have an application recognition database that can identify software based on a number of factors. The database should be large enough to cover less common programs, and it should be flexible enough for IT to define their own applications for custom applications.

          3. Don’t get bogged down by manual analysis Companies that have gone through the lengthy process of collecting software and hardware information by hand from each PC have learned a valuable lesson. The practice of compiling this information and making decisions based on it can be a time consuming process in itself.

          Inventory needs to be taken in a short window of time to ensure a ‘snapshot’ is captured, and the data then needs to be analysed quickly, so that the data doesn’t become outdated before decisions are made based on it.

          By the time a manual audit is completed, analysed and actioned, it’s likely that the results will be significantly out-of-date, both in terms of software that will have been installed in the meantime and hardware that will have been upgraded or retired.

          An auditing solution should be able to handle the whole process from beginning to end for you. This will perform automated data collection and analysis of both software and hardware information, with the end result being a list of hardware component upgrades you’ll need to install into each PC in order to make them Vista capable. You will also get an understanding of how many PCs are going to need to be replaced entirely.

          4. Keep a lid on ongoing licence costs Two of the most common ways companies “lose” software licences is through PCs being decommissioned and employees leaving the business.

          But organisations are often unaware that thousand-dollar copies of Photoshop or other expensive applications that may have been purchased for special projects are now sitting dormant on staffers’ PCs.

          Worse, for specialised applications, organisations may discover years down the track that they’ve been paying inflated software maintenance fees due to dormant licences that no-one thought to check each time renewal rolled around.

          A central licence database and an automated way of collecting both licence and usage data is the crucial element in taking ongoing control of this problem. Further savings can be realised by tracking and monitoring application usage and reporting on little-used licences that could be redeployed to other users across the business in place of new purchases.

          This is the only circumstance where a solution can’t be “zero touch”, as it is necessary to install an agent on the client to accurately meter the usage of software applications (not just measure whether an application is open).

          From a compliance perspective, you should ensure the ongoing auditing application you deploy is able to identify the application versions, extract the relevant software licence information and link that to purchase orders to provide an authoritative central licensing database. If your organisation is formally audited for licensing compliance, there will be no last-minute rush to compile the information and no nasty surprises at the end of the process.

          5. Don’t forget the small things

          It goes without saying, but it’s not only PCs that are affected by a major operating system upgrade: it’s also printers, scanners, PDAs and other peripherals that connect into the PCs and the network.

          A category of peripheral that’s often forgotten in major system rollouts is mobile phones. Depending on your organisation’s choice of handheld platform, don’t forget that your audit should include the capability to include these types of devices also.

          Even if you’re not planning to deploy in the next 12-18 months, you still need to start planning now, especially around application compatibility due to the deep changes to Microsoft’s latest OS.

          Why bother!!

    • #2577731

      i have been proven right Gaming is shit with vista

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      testing has shown Planet Company of Heroes
      Company of Heroes/Vista Performance Charts
      Aaghh, another Vista news piece. And to make it even worse, it’s bad news! GameSpot has compiled a Company of Heroes performance chart, comparing CoH’s performance in XP vs Vista. And the bad news? XP has an advantage of 5-20 FPS, depending on the resolution. So if you’re really concerned about performance. Company of Heroes. Unless you have a GeForce 8800 GTX, because let’s face it, even its lowest result of 164 FPS is more than enough for anyone.

      Guys what did i say its a piece of crap?? i was right testing has proved it.

      • #2577730

        guys performance testing reveals vista is woefully slow

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to i have been proven right Gaming is shit with vista

        as compared to vistaWindows XP vs. Vista: The Benchmark Rundown
        Patrick Schmid, Achim Roos
        January 29, 2007 09:16

        Is Windows Vista Faster Than XP?
        Our Windows Vista coverage began with a hands-on diary by MobilityGuru’s Barry Gerber, followed by an assessment of gameplay under Windows Vista by graphics presidente Darren Polkowski, as well as a complete feature rundown of Vista. Barry took the new operating system and its look & feel with a grain of salt, while Darren was disappointed because OpenGL support was dropped along the way, meaning that Windows Vista currently offers horrible performance for graphics applications utilizing the Open Graphics Library.

        We are sure that mainstream users will appreciate the improved usability of Windows Vista, and the average office/multimedia user will likely never notice the lack of OpenGL. However, a chapter on the overall performance of Windows Vista requires more dedication. In particular, two things require an in-depth analysis:

        Basic Windows Vista Performance
        How does Windows Vista perform compared to Windows XP? Will applications execute equally quickly, or will they even run slower due to the new features and the AeroGlass interface?
        Windows Vista Performance Enhancements
        With SuperFetch and ReadyBoost, Windows Vista introduces two features to make use of today’s technology in order to improve the user experience. This means that more application data should be actively cached into all available memory (SuperFetch), whether that is physical RAM or a USB Flash memory device (ReadyBoost). Microsoft’s goal was to create balanced performance by removing delays in everyday work.
        This article deals with basic application execution under Windows Vista Enterprise, which is representative of the other editions. We put together a high-end test system and performed a comprehensive benchmark session both with Windows XP Professional and with Windows Vista Enterprise to see if there are differences. And indeed, we found that there are some…

        Software And Vista
        Although the main Windows Vista core has undergone lot of modifications, many of your applications will work with Vista. There is, however, no guarantee. You should definitely try any essential software on Windows before you upgrade.

        Process scheduling and thread pooling have been improved in Vista; a deadlock protection mechanism and hardware partitioning for virtualization support were added, together with many more features.

        We tried lots of different programs under Windows Vista Enterprise, and came up with a list of software that definitely works.

        Games
        Call of Duty 2
        Far Cry
        F.E.A.R.
        Unreal Tournament 2004
        Applications
        Adobe Acrobat 8
        Adobe Photoshop CS2
        Autodesk 3DSMax 8.0
        AutoGK 2.4
        Hamachi
        KeePass 1.06
        LAME MP3 Encoder
        MainConcept H.264 Encoder
        Miranda Messager 0.5.1
        Microsoft Office 2003
        Microsoft Office System 2007
        Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1
        Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5.0.9
        Nokia PC Suite 6.82.22.0
        Ogg Vorbis 1.1.2
        OpenOffice 2.1
        Picasa 2
        Putty
        Skype 2.5.x and 3.0
        SmartFTP 2.0
        Sungard Adaptive Credit Risk Calculation 3.0
        SonyEricsson PC Suite 1.30.82
        SQLyog 5.22
        Symantec AntiVirus 10.2.0.224
        UltraEdit 32 12.10
        WinRAR 3.70
        XviD 1.2.0
        Benchmarks
        3DMark 06
        Cinebench
        PCMark05 Pro
        SiSoft Sandra 2007
        SPECviewperf 9.03
        In other cases there were some issues.

        We found Vista updates for the Futuremark benchmark programs 3DMark and PCMark, as well as the popular data compression tool WinRAR. Lots of video-related software such as DivX could no longer be installed; new versions are required. The popular audio player WinAMP 5.32 throws up an error at startup, yet it works properly. Quake IV can still be executed, but the installation program did not work. Applications that run their own memory management won’t benefit from Vista’s SuperFetch function. For example, Adobe Photoshop takes care of creating a temporary work file every time it launches – Vista has no access to this process and cannot speed it up.

        There are some types of software that you should only use if they have been specifically designed for Windows Vista: firewalls, anti-spyware and anti-virus software needs to be Vista-Ready
        ??What i s Vista Ready according to Ms anything they say that it is !!
        give me strengh as vista ready doesn’t mean anything.

        • #2577727

          VISTA BENCHMARKING HAS SHOWN THAT VISTA

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to guys performance testing reveals vista is woefully slow

          HAS UNDERPERFORMED XP BY MILES !!
          Vista: Benchmarking or Benchmarketing?
          Patrick Schmid, Achim Roos
          April 19, 2007 07:35

          Can Vista’s Performance Indices Replace Benchmarking?
          Vista: Benchmarking or Benchmarketing?
          Patrick Schmid, Achim Roos
          April 19, 2007 07:35

          Can Vista’s Performance Indices Replace Benchmarking?
          Vista: Benchmarking or Benchmarketing?
          Patrick Schmid, Achim Roos
          April 19, 2007 07:35

          Can Vista’s Performance Indices Replace Benchmarking?
          There is a lot of variety in the hardware market: hundreds of types of processors, motherboards, hard drives, graphics cards and other components to choose from. And although consolidation has been going on for several years, leaving only AMD/ATI, Intel and Nvidia as the main players, along with a few motherboard makers and storage giants, finding the right products still can be an exhausting task. This is where benchmarking comes into play, because it helps to measure qualities and characteristics by applying a certain metric. Windows Vista now provides a built-in benchmarking solution to assess component and system performance, but does the so-called Experience Index correspond to what Tom’s Hardware and other tech publications find on the test bench?

          We will talk about benchmarking fundamentals on the following page, but I’d like to forestall the issue of synthetic vs. real-world benchmarks. Typically, using so-called real-world benchmarks is considered the proper way of technical benchmarking, because you use real applications to measure performance or assess capabilities. Although this creates a lot of work for reviewers, real-world software provides very relevant results. A great example is our popular Interactive CPU Charts, which compile almost 30 different programs and benchmarks across most processors on the market. Simply select your application and you’ll receive results that are relevant to you.

          Yes, the CPU Charts also include synthetic benchmarks – these were designed to specifically measure certain performance aspects of components. But synthetic benchmarks can be created with a certain focus in mind, resulting in test runs that may be less relevant, while real-world applications reflect what people actually use. The common attempt to create trust in synthetic benchmarks is finding industry-wide support, resulting in industry standard benchmarks.

          Microsoft is in an excellent position to create an industry standard benchmark on a consumer level, because Vista will be the dominant operating system for new PCs by the middle of this year. A built-in benchmarking solution would not only allow users to assess and compare the performance of components and systems, but be a powerful marketing instrument for the whole industry as well. Microsoft developed a comprehensive but simple to understand rating scheme, called the Windows Experience Index. It includes both performance and feature evaluation, expressed as a single number; Microsoft would like to see performance indices on both hardware and software retail boxes. This would allow users can check whether their scores were good enough to run a software package they intended to buy, and to compare possible hardware upgrades to match or exceed the Experience Index required by the software.

          The advantages of such an all-in-one benchmarking solution are pretty obvious, but how well does the Windows Experience Index really reflect real-life performance? As the name says, it is an experience index that was specifically designed for Windows Vista. We decided to check how the Vista results compare to our own in-depth benchmarking.
          Well one can draw ones’ conclussion that it’s all marketing hype there is no wow factor or what MS is saying is to make more $$$$$.It does not give a real hoot
          about the poor old consumer.That might sound like MS bashing but it’s the cold hard truth!!!
          Guys i regard you as far more intelligent, any comments????

        • #2577724

          re vista benchmarking

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to VISTA BENCHMARKING HAS SHOWN THAT VISTA

          Vista: Benchmarking or Benchmarketing?
          Patrick Schmid, Achim Roos
          April 19, 2007 07:35

          Benchmark Basics
          There are two basic types of benchmarks: real-world benchmarks, which are based on software or application scenarios that people all over the world actually use, and so-called synthetic benchmarks. This latter type consists of programs that were specifically designed for the sole purpose of stressing a system or specific components for testing. 3DMark and PCMark by Futuremark, and Sandra by SiSoftware are typical examples of synthetic benchmarks. Examples of real-life benchmarks would be a script running several tasks on Adobe’s Photoshop, transcoding one video format into another, or running a 3D game.

          Both benchmark types return either a composite score or a more tangible result such as the time required to process the benchmark workload. This can also be a certain metric such as frames per second (graphics), calculations or iterations per second (processors), megabytes per second (hard drives or main memory) and many others. Depending on what you’re benchmarking, you’ll receive one or more results, which have to be weighted before you come to a conclusion. You may want to put emphasis on a certain result, depending on your requirements.

          While some synthetic benchmarks, such as 3Dmark, have managed to become an industry standard on a consumer level, we still prefer real-world benchmarks because these typically return more tangible results. For example, 65 frames per second in a particular game at particular settings means more to most users than 6583 3DMark scores. Is this a lot? 65 frames per second certainly is enough to provide smooth graphics. But you could argue that the 3DMark score could be compared across completely different systems easily – because all that counts is the score – while the direct comparison of frames per second leads experienced users to ask about system details.

          In any case, benchmark results are only worth the work if there are results to which you can compare. Getting frames per second performance of a brand new graphics card at several resolutions is worth little if you don’t also have the results for its closest competitor, and maybe its predecessor. The very first step is creating a consistent test setup, which must not be changed as you alter the target parameters (e.g. varying graphics cards on a test system). It is also helpful to define a baseline to facilitate rating the differences. If 65 frames per second equals a baseline of 100, for example, 73 frames per second would be 112, or a 12% increase.

          It is crucial to be diligent, to make sure that all results are actually reproducible. One part of this is to verify results; the other is to find out if a particular benchmark shows a lot of variance. Running each benchmark at least three times turned out to be reasonable, but the more variance you find, the more repetitions you should run. If you still get varying results after ten runs you should probably drop the benchmark and find a more accurate solution. Working with benchmark results, you can either calculate an average, or take the fastest/slowest result. Which approach makes most sense highly depends on the type of benchmark.

          Finally, you should be aware that Windows Vista is capable of optimizing application startup time with its Superfetch feature, which pre-caches frequently launched applications into available main memory. This is particularly important for benchmarks that launch multiple modules – think of a benchmark suite such as BAPCo’s SYSmark, which launches one application after the other. Vista will recognize the pattern as you run the benchmark multiple times, and it will have the individual applications launch faster, improving the benchmark results over time. Here you should either train each system, or disable the Superfetch service.

        • #2577722

          vista benchmarking a big headache

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to re vista benchmarking

          Vista: Benchmarking or Benchmarketing?
          Patrick Schmid, Achim Roos
          April 19, 2007 07:35

          Windows Experience Index
          Windows Vista isn’t just the smarter, more beautiful Windows operating system: it is capable of assessing the performance of the system upon which it runs. Microsoft created the Windows Experience Index (WEI) to rate system components such as the processor, the main memory, the graphics subsystem and the primary hard disk. These results are called sub-scores. Windows uses these sub-scores to create the WEI score, which resembles the lowest sub-score.

          The WEI value is a simple number between 1 and 5.9, where 5.9 is the highest WEI score you can reach today. As soon as there is faster or more advanced hardware, Microsoft intends to introduce higher scores of 6 and up. Microsoft says there is no schedule for updating the score range, but it should be done approximately every 12 to 18 months.

          Vista’s WEI scores are not just a simple number; they follow a certain base score definition that is called the score level:

          Level 1 (1): Sufficient performance. Ready for office applications, web browsing, email and IM communication, basic educational software
          – older or entry-level computers, ultra-portable devices
          This is the minimum score to run Windows Vista.
          Level 2 (2.0 to 2.9): Adequate performance. Aero graphics, improved system responsiveness, but same application profile as in level 1.
          – low-end and mainstream computers
          Level 3 (3.0 to 3.9): Up to date system performance; Aero graphics, average 3D game and graphics capabilities
          – mainstream PCs with graphics capabilities
          This is the minimum score to reach Vista Premium certification.
          Level 4 (4.0 to 4.9): High system performance, capable of handling HD content and high resolutions in 2D and 3D modes
          – high end PCs, enthusiast PCs, desktop replacement notebooks and enthusiast notebooks
          Level 5 (5.0 to 5.9): Highest performance available today.
          – kick-butt computers
          As Microsoft adds level 6, the level definitions might change, but existing scores won’t. This way, it will be possible to compare old and new computers/hardware easily. Microsoft puts emphasis on the benefits of the WIE for hardware and software purchases, which is an obvious step from a business point of view.

          There is a nice blog by Nick White on the Windows Experience Index that we recommend to everyone who is interested in more details on WEI: Windows Experience Index: An In-Depth Look

        • #2579191

          vista is a big bloat

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista benchmarking a big headache

          What An Incredible Piece Of Bloatware
          Reader post by: Stating
          Posted on: March 15, 2006, 9:21 PM PST
          Story: Will your PC keep pace with Vista?
          Why one earth would average Joe User need so many computer resources just to do basic tasks on their computer? We’re not talking about mapping the human genome here for Christ’s sake. Computer hardware is already getting too expensive for a lot of folks. How are computer vendors going to absorb the cost of an extra gig of ram, faster processors, faster hard drives, and faster graphics cards without passing it along to the consumer. Dell’s going to have to yank the 1 year warranty and charge $200 for shipping. Is that $650 entry level laptop now going to cost $1,000? Or $1,200 if you want it to actually run well?

          I’ve got customers running a 20th century OS (Windows 2K) on 20th Century hardware (P4 128 meg ram) and things are just dandy. Now all of a sudden, a mere 4 years later, they need 8 times the resources to do the same things? How is this progress?

        • #2579181

          how ms has hid behind the rhetoric to cover it’s botched

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista is a big bloat

          up attempts on vista What’s New Since RC1?

          While we saw a great deal of changes between our initial review of Windows Vista Beta 2 and Release Candidate 1, it should come as no surprise that there have been far fewer changes between RC1 and the final version we are looking at today. For better or worse, RC1 was the last chance for Microsoft to implement any changes in Vista that were design changes; everything since then has been in the realm of last-minute polish and bug fixes. As a result, certainly Vista is in better shape than ever before, but at the same time it means that design issues we identified have not been resolved.

          Given that, prospective users of Vista are going to find that our previous complaints about the User Account Controls still stand. We still find it’s a good idea and a major improvement over the lackluster security features of previous versions of Windows, but even with the improvements Microsoft has made to it, it’s still too annoying from a power-user perspective.

          When Vista first entered widespread public testing about a year ago, a series of screenshots were circulated showing the worst-case scenario for the number of operations required to permanently delete a single file. At the time it was six operations ranging from confirmation of the delete to granting security permissions to empty the recycle bin. To Microsoft’s credit they’ve reduced that somewhat, but we can still replicate that situation and come up with a worst-case scenario that takes four steps. Two of those steps are the required confirmation for deleting the item and then emptying the Recycle Bin, but the other two are security confirmation steps and while it’s admittedly nit-picking, it’s overly redundant to require two security steps to delete a file; this makes it twice as hard as it is under any previous version of Windows. UAC security will be accepted up to a point, but even one more operation than is necessary is going to quickly cause UAC to end up disabled by those who know how to do it.
          Similarly, launching an application that requires administrative rights is still more difficult than it needs to be. As we touched upon this briefly last time, with the launch of Vista a lot of common 3rd-party applications will continue to require administrative privileges to run correctly, and it will continue to be this way for some time until everyone has had a chance to retrofit their applications for Vista. Unfortunately, every time one of these applications is launched the user needs to approve the application, and like the deletion scenario this gets increasingly redundant as the same applications are reused day in and day out. A pre-approval method or some other system is desperately needed for Vista’s UAC system if the goal is to maximize security while minimizing the number of users disabling these advanced security features. Otherwise there are only so many orange screens that one can stand before UAC becomes a victim of its super-secure design.

          One of the few noticeable changes since RC1 has been the driver situation with Vista, which has steadily improved since we first looked at Beta 2. Between the final driver submissions for RTM and a much smarter Windows Update, Vista was able to install drivers for all of our hardware in one of our test systems, other than the driver for a PhysX card. Working drivers were found for our motherboard, video, sound, network, on-board SCSI, and even TV cards. This is likely the high point for Vista as newer devices will ship without drivers built in to Vista, but nonetheless it’s a refreshing experience after the amount of work required to completely install a set of drivers on XP. With the ability to load drivers off of a USB drive at installation, it should never be that bad again either.

          The one weak spot as far as drivers are concerned continues to be audio and video drivers, but that too has been improving. We’ll take a look at later with our benchmarks of Vista, but video performance is much closer to that of Windows XP compared to our first look at Vista, at least as far as DirectX 9 titles go. DirectX 10 and OpenGL are not as clear as there are no DirectX 10 games (and they will require Vista regardless) and AMD is still working the kinks out of their new OpenGL driver for Vista. For audio, earlier concerns about the new audio stack breaking older games has been partially resolved as Creative Labs has released a DirectSound3D-to-OpenAL wrapper that works with some games, showcasing that it’s possible to work around the stack changes.

          Even with a lengthy preview article, there is still a lot of ground to cover when taking a close look at the final release version of Windows Vista. We have attempted to create a comprehensive look at the new operating system, but even then there are still plenty of items that will have to wait for another day before we can truly evaluate them. The big question that almost everyone is going to want answered is pretty simple: should you upgrade to Windows Vista now or wait awhile longer?
          In practice, SuperFetch depends a great deal on how predictable a user is and how much extra RAM a computer has. Veteran computer users will be slightly dismayed at first to find that Vista is actively attempting to use the entirety of a computer’s RAM (down to 0MB of free memory remaining), which is effectively the opposite of how XP attempted to conserve as much memory as possible. This looks worse than it actually is, as cached data can immediately be thrown away to make space for an application as required, but Microsoft has nonetheless attempted to clarify things since Beta 2 where the Task Manager would only show total memory usage. Now the Task Manager makes it clear how much RAM is being used for program execution and how much is being used for cache, but this will still inevitably spark a few debates on if full RAM usage is really a good thing. Given that RAM tends to be a low power device operating at near full power all the time (especially on desktop machines), we feel RAM is the ideal underutilized component to try to fully exploit, as it doesn’t incur the extra power costs of running at full load like a CPU/GPU do.

        • #2579171

          performance testing with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista is a big bloat

          Test your router’s compatibility with Vista
          Posted on 29 Mar 07 at 18:31 by Grant Holliday in Windows Vista |
          The Internet Connectivity Evaluation Tool checks your router to see if it supports certain networking technologies, like IPv6 tunnelling over IPv4, and traffic congestion protocols.

          My Belkin F1PI241EGau from iiNet scored the following:

          Basic Internet Connectivity Test – Supported
          Network Address Translator Type – Not Supported
          Traffic Congestion Test – Not Supported
          TCP High performance Test – Not Supported
          UPnP Support Test – Supported
          Multiple Simultaneous Connection States Test – Supported
          Test #2 failed with the following results:

          Sending a Router Solicitation frame with ConeBit off
          Waiting for Router Advertisement
          Didn’t receive any Router Advertisement frames from the Teredo server
          Test #3 failed with the following results:

          Trying to load library nsi.dll
          ECN is disabled
          Turning on ECN for testing
          Trying to connect to the test server http://www.microsoft.com
          Successfully connected to the test server
          Fetching the webpage /windows/using/tools/igd/StaticContent/igdprobedocs/ecn/test.txt from the test server
          Failed to fetch the webpage from the test server
          Test #4 failed with the following results:

          Trying to load library nsi.dll
          The current Auto Tuning Level is set to Normal
          Trying to connect to the test server http://www.microsoft.com
          Successfully connected to the test server
          Testing with webpage /windows/using/tools/igd/StaticContent/igdprobedocs/ws/test13.txt of size 8192
          Fetching the webpage /windows/using/tools/igd/StaticContent/igdprobedocs/ws/test13.txt from the test server
          Failed to get the webpage from the test server
          Clipboard Image Monitor
          Posted on 21 Jun 06 at 00:40 by Grant Holliday in Resources, Windows Vista, TFS Bug Snapper | 3 Comments | 1 Reference
          The idea was thrown up on our internal mailing list by Matty Cosier:

          ?Wouldn?t it be great if TFS Bug Snapper could use images from the clipboard? Then I could use SnagIt or the built-in Windows Vista Snipping Tool to take screenshots!? (or something like that)
          Clipboard Image Monitor is a small utility that sits in the system tray and watches the clipboard. If an image is copied to the clipboard this utility saves a copy to the filesystem.

          Download the MSI installer from ProjectDistributor (~400K)
          Download the source from ProjectDistributor (~65K)
          By default it saves PNG images to %TEMP% with the filename ClipboardImage_00000.png

          Instead of running a timer and polling the clipboard I?ve used code from Ross Donald?s article on using the Windows API to add another Clipboard Viewer and watch for WM_DRAWCLIPBOARD messages.

          Icon is from the cool (and free) IconExperience set.

          The next step is to integrate this into TFS Bug Snapper.

          Vista Performance Ratings
          Posted on 28 May 06 at 20:03 by Grant Holliday in Windows Vista | 1 Comment | 1 Reference
          Seeing as we?re having a swinging competition, here?s my contribution from Windows Vista?s System Performance Rating screen. (Press WinKey+PauseBreak)

          Sorry to break the news to you Geoff, but I don?t think 5 is the maximum ? maybe it?s opened ended so it copes with lots of new hardware.

          No doubt Mitch will beat us all given enough time to get his new laptop.

          FIX: Can’t connect to Virtual Server 2005 on Vista
          Posted on 26 May 06 at 23:20 by Grant Holliday in Windows Vista | 1 Comment | 1 Reference
          Further to my last post on installing Virtual Server 2005 R2 on Windows Vista here?s some more guidance. Since Vista Beta 2 was released a couple of days ago I?ve helped numerous people in the ?office? get Virtual Server up and running on Vista.

          After installing IIS with the required components (refer to the massive pkgmgr command line in the other post), Virtual Server installation won?t complain about IIS Admin any more and will install OK.

          However, when you try and connect to http://localhost/VirtualServer/vswebapp.exe, you?ll get an obscure error, something like ?No access to application data?.

          The solution
          Right-click on Internet Explorer in the Quick Launch toolbar
          select Run as administrator
          enter the Virtual Server admin URL, all should be fine.
          Obviously the reason for this is that the Virtual Server admin tool needs administrator credentials to be able to manipulate the service. Internet Explorer runs as an unprivileged user in Windows Vista, so you need to run IE using admin privileges to fix this.

          IIS7: Direct .NET Integration mode (PREFERRED)
          Posted on 23 May 06 at 22:16 by Grant Holliday in Windows Vista | 1 Comment
          So I?m trying to get Darren?s SingleUserBlog V2 up and running under Windows Vista and IIS7 so I can debug the Readify Bloggers OPML webpart that doesn?t seem to be working (even though it?s a valid OPML file)

          So the first step was to open IIS Manager and select ?Create Application? under ?Default Web Site?. Then setup like follows:

          After this I browsed to http://localhost/SUB/ to be greeted with the following error:

          Description: This application is running in an application pool that uses the Direct .NET Integration mode. This is the preferred mode for running ASP.NET applications on the current and future version of IIS.

          In this mode, the application should not specify ASP.NET module components in the / configuration section. Instead, it should use the / configuration section to load ASP.NET module components.
          Fortunately it provides two options for moving forward:

          Migrate the application to work with the Direct .NET Integration mode (PREFERRED).
          Move this application to an application pool using the Classic .NET Integration mode.
          I chose to go ahead with the PREFERRED method, because it?s in capitals. You can change the configuration files by running AppCmd.exe which is a tool which automatically migrates your old config, to IIS7?s new config format.

          %systemroot%\system32\inetsrv\APPCMD.EXE migrate config ?/?.
          However, this doesn?t work for me. I get this error when trying the conversion:

          ERROR ( hresult:c00cee02, message:Command execution failed.
          After creating a vanilla Web.config and trying to convert that configuration, I found that when I removed the XML definition from the top of the file everything worked fine. Go figure.

          Remove:
          So now I have a modules and httpHandlers section for SingleUserBlog that looks like this:

          And a working SingleUserBlog install on IIS7 on Windows Vista. But no debugging. I set a breakpoint in Visual Studio then hit F5 and get this:

          Unable to cast object of type ?System.Web.HttpDebugHandler? to type ?System.Web.HttpApplication?
          Now I?m lost. But at least I know I can run ASP.NET apps on Vista/IIS7 with little change.

          Installing Virtual Server 2005 on Vista 5365
          Posted on 21 May 06 at 12:00 by Grant Holliday in Windows Vista | 4 Comments | 3 References
          Virtual Server 2005 requires IIS and the IISAdmin service to be installed. However these are not installed by default on Windows Vista.

          Thanks to NickMacKechnie?s Weblog, I found the list of IIS components that are required.

          Use the following command line to install IIS before installing Virtual Server 2005:

          start /w pkgmgr /l:log.etw /iu:IIS-WebServerRole;IIS-WebServer;IIS-CommonHttpFeatures;IIS-StaticContent;IIS-DefaultDocument;IIS-DirectoryBrowsing;IIS-HttpErrors;IIS-HttpRedirect;IIS-ApplicationDevelopment;IIS-ASPNET;IIS-NetFxExtensibility;IIS-ASP;IIS-CGI;IIS-ISAPIExtensions;IIS-ISAPIFilter;IIS-ServerSideIncludes;IIS-HealthAndDiagnostics;IIS-HttpLogging;IIS-LoggingLibraries;IIS-RequestMonitor;IIS-HttpTracing;IIS-CustomLogging;IIS-ODBCLogging;IIS-Security;IIS-BasicAuthentication;IIS-WindowsAuthentication;IIS-DigestAuthentication;IIS-ClientCertificateMappingAuthentication;IIS-IISCertificateMappingAuthentication;IIS-URLAuthorization;IIS-RequestFiltering;IIS-IPSecurity;IIS-Performance;IIS-HttpCompressionStatic;IIS-HttpCompressionDynamic;IIS-WebServerManagementTools;IIS-ManagementConsole;IIS-ManagementScriptingTools;IIS-ManagementService;IIS-IIS6ManagementCompatibility;IIS-Metabase;IIS-WMICompatibility;IIS-LegacyScripts;IIS-LegacySnapIn;IIS-FTPPublishingService;IIS-FTPServer;IIS-FTPManagement;WAS-WindowsActivationService;WAS-ProcessModel;WAS-NetFxEnvironment;WAS-ConfigurationAPI
          Vista: Windows Flip 3D
          Posted on 1 May 06 at 21:53 by Grant Holliday in Windows Vista | Post a Comment | 1 Reference
          Today I discovered one of the neat new features in Windows Vista, that is Windows Flip 3D.

          Just like alt-tab, Windows-tab (Flip 3D) allows you to ?flip through open windows in a stack?.

          Why is this great? Well, it let?s you preview the whole window before you switch to it. I guess this can save you time. All I know is that Win-Tab is going to take some getting used to after years of alt-tab?ing. (Although alt-tab still works as it used to)

          Vista/IE7: Changing the default search provider
          Posted on 30 Apr 06 at 18:59 by Grant Holliday in Windows Vista | 2 Comments | 1 Reference
          Search is everywhere in Windows Vista. There?s a search box at the top of Internet Explorer and just above the Start button.

          But if you just can?t get used to the default Windows Live search, then don?t fret. Head over to Add Search Providers to Internet Explorer 7.

          Add your own Search Provider
          You can also add a search provider to any search engine you like using JavaScript. Checkout the OpenSearch specification for more information.

          window.external.AddSearchProvider(?URL?)
          Search my site
          Click to add holliday.com.au search provider

          Example


          Holliday.com.au
          Holliday.com.au Search


          Vista Fix: No sound through speakers on Dell laptop
          Posted on 30 Apr 06 at 18:24 by Grant Holliday in Windows Vista | 44 Comments
          I have a Dell Inspiron 9300 which has the SigmaTel C-Major Audio device.

          The Vista 5365 installer doesn’t have the drivers included but Windows Update includes a version. This version will install and work fine with the internal laptop speakers.

          However, when you plug headphones or speakers in ? they don’t work!

          Downloading and installing the latest Audio drivers for Windows XP from the Dell support site will fix the problem though.

          Workaround: Vista 5365 Explorer runs really slow
          Posted on 30 Apr 06 at 18:20 by Grant Holliday in Windows Vista | 2 Comments
          On Build 5365 of Windows Vista there is a bug with SearchIndexer.exe which causes it to crash continuously and slow down Windows Explorer. Thankfully I found a fix on this forum.

          Symptoms
          Windows Explorer is really slow. Folder contents take forever to display.
          File | Save As../Open.. has a lag of about 5 seconds.
          You keep getting the ?SearchIndexer.exe stopped working and was closed? errors
          Causes
          System Locale is not English (United States)
          Workaround

          Go to Control Panel
          Under ?Clock, Language and Region? select ?Change the system language?
          Select the ?Administrative? tab
          Select ?Change System Locale??
          Change the current language to ?English (United States)?
          Restart when prompted

        • #2579166

          woefull performance with vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista is a big bloat

          Windows XP and Vista Performance Comparison
          Monday, 12 March 2007
          Article Index
          Windows XP and Vista Performance Comparison
          The Test Machine
          Results – 3DMark06
          Results – PCMark05
          Conclusion
          Page 1 of 5
          Even before Windows Vista was publicly released, there was a lot of concern from people beta testing the O/S. Running Windows Vista seemed to have a large performance drop for their PC when compared to Windows XP. Was it true? Or is it just scare tactics from Microsoft haters?

          It is widely known that you need a much faster PC to run Vista than you do to run Windows XP. Microsoft recommend a minimum of a 1Ghz CPU and 1GB of RAM to run anything better than Vista Home Basic (I.e. Home Premium, Business or Ultimate) , and a Directx9 capable video card. I would hate to try and run Vista on a 1Ghz CPU, it would just be painfully slow. So when specing-up your new machine, make sure you at least double the minimum recommended RAM and CPU speed, have a dedicated PCI-Ex16 video card with 128MB of RAM or more, and you will be fine. If your video card supports DirectX9, you should even be able to run Aero.

          Vista may include a host of new features, look a whole lot better and tingle your inner geek in all the right places, but most people just want their games to run smoothly, their office applications to open quickly and run without fuss, and the internet to be as fast as possible, so why would you upgrade to an operating system that will serve only to slow you down? Well we?re going to run a few quick tests to either prove or dispel the rumours.

          What we?ve done is setup a high-spec machine, and we?re going to do a standard load of Windows XP Professional SP2, run our benchmarks, then a standard load of Windows Vista Ultimate and perform the same tests. The graphics tests will be run using 3DMark06, which runs on DirectX 9, not DirectX 10 as is written into Vista, so whilst it won?t be as true a comparison of possible performance as we would like, it is the best we can do at the moment, and tests current 3D software, which is what matters. 2D application tests will be performed by PCMark05. Whilst these are both ?artificial? benchmarks as it were, they perform a wide variety of tests, with 3DMark simulating current and future game rendering systems, and PCMark simulating everything from rendering web pages, to 3D Performance, 2D Image rendering and Hard Disk usage, all in one neat package.

          Windows XP and Vista Performance Comparison
          Monday, 12 March 2007
          Article Index
          Windows XP and Vista Performance Comparison
          The Test Machine
          Results – 3DMark06
          Results – PCMark05
          Conclusion
          Page 2 of 5

          Test Machine Specs:

          ASUS Striker Extreme nForce680i SLI Motherboard

          Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 CPU

          Corsair TWIN2X6400 2GB DDR-2 Memory Kit

          2 x Gigabyte GeForce 8800GTX 768MB PCI-Ex16 Video Cards running SLI

          Western Digital Raptor 150GB 10,000rpm SATA-II Hard Drive

          OCZ GameXstream 850W ATX Power Supply

          Certainly a bit higher-end than most home or office PCs, but this will allow us to run much more intense tests and be able to spot any differences more easily.

          Windows XP and Vista Performance Comparison
          Monday, 12 March 2007
          Article Index
          Windows XP and Vista Performance Comparison
          The Test Machine
          Results – 3DMark06
          Results – PCMark05
          Conclusion
          Page 3 of 5

          The Results:

          For 3DMark06 we ran 3 different tests, one with the video cards in SLI mode, one using only a single video card, and another in SLI mode using 8x Anti-Aliasing to try to see if there?s more of a difference when the 3D system is pushed hard. All tests were performed at a resolution of 1280×1024.

          As you can see above, there is around a 5% performance increase using Windows XP under both SLI tests, the single card test showed a negligible difference, but still in favour of old-hat XP.

          There were a few tests within 3DMark that showed a massive difference between the O/S?s, specifically the shader tests. The simple Vertex Shader test showed almost a 50% drop in performance under Vista, with XP running 369Million Vertices/sec versus 186MV/s under Vista. The shader particles test also showed Vista had a 25% drop from XP, and the pixel shader test a 15% drop in performance.

          3DMark also performs Batch Size tests of moving triangle systems, starting with 8 triangles and moving up with 32, 128, 512, 2048 and finally 32768.

          This test demonstrates graphics card memory throughput by testing how many triangles per second can be drawn. In these tests both versions of Windows improve at close to the same rate as the batch size increases, until (as you can see on the graph above) Vista seems to hit a wall, indicating a big problem with memory throughput under Vista. Hopefully this is only a driver issue that can be fixed by nVidia in the future.

    • #2579160

      vista performance down 15 % when compared with xp

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      This articlle from ozhardware website proves once for all.We can see an overall performance decrease of about 15% in Vista compared to XP, and when looking through the results, the main culprits are the graphics memory tests, where XP was a massive 11 TIMES Better than Vista!!! XP was able to pass through 3600frames per second compared to Vista?s lowly 312FPS. Again, hopefully future driver releases can help fix this issue, as that?s just pathetic.

      Video playback of a WMV file also suffered greatly under Vista, giving just 30.8FPS compared to 69.1FPS under XP. This means Vista would struggle to do anything else while a WMV video is playing, quite poor really considering the hardware we?re testing on.

      HDD performance was generally better on XP, but only by a few % barely worth a mention really. The only areas Vista excelled in were rendering transparent windows (i.e. like the Aero theme) and audio decompression. For transparent windows, Vista beats XP almost 4-fold, with 2671windows/sec under Vista, to 713windows/sec under XP. Microsoft has obviously optimised this process quite well for Vista to make the Aero theme run smoothly. Audio decompression was twice as good under Vista, working at 2665KB/s compared to 1371KB/s under XP. Unfortunately audio compression is the same under both, so you won?t be able to rip your CDs to MP3?s any faster.

    • #2584651

      why would anyone buy a vista copy at all

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Vista: Over 40 million copies sold . . . but to whom?
      On Tuesday, as he kicked off Microsoft’s annual Windows Hardware Engineering Conference — aka WinHEC — Bill Gates said more than 40 million copies of Windows Vista have been sold in the operating system’s first 100 days of availability:

      And now we can go back and talk about some of the success that was driven by the launch, talk about the Vista First 100 Days. We’ve really been amazed at the customer response. I mean, we knew that [Windows] Vista would become the standard version of Windows. We knew that the industry was stepping up to take advantage of those capabilities, but what’s happened in the last 100 days has been beyond our expectations. As of last week, we’ve had nearly 40 million copies sold, and so that’s twice as fast as the adoption of Windows XP, the last major release that we’ve had. What a liar!! They havea habit of bending the truth a little!!

      If you think about that, that says that in our first five weeks we’ve matched the entire installed base of any other provider of similar software. So just in five weeks we’ve gotten out to those levels. . . Proves he is a damn liar &knows it.

      This updates numbers released by Microsoft in March, in which the company said 20 million copies of Vista had been sold. But both now and then, what Microsoft isn’t saying is almost more revealing than its public statements.Yep sure they are lying to the consumers.

      The company’s not breaking the numbers out. It’s not saying how many copies are being sold as retail upgrades, how many are being sold pre-installed on new computers and how many result from PC owners turning in upgrade coupons they got with systems bought late last year.

      And Mary Jo Foley of All About Microsoft brings up an excellent point — many of these copies may not even be in the hands of consumers yet:Good point Mary JO.Sometimes she does ask pertinent questions!

      As Endpoint Technologies Associates analyst Roger Kay notes, the 40 million is the number of copies Microsoft sold to the channel, not the number of copies sold by the channel and directly to customers.
      I do think Windows Vista is a dud on the scale of Windows ME — operating system I think ms is just fudging the figures.

      • #2584649

        how many people have purchased vista & aren’t installing it yet

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to why would anyone buy a vista copy at all

        hoping ms comes good.
        I recently spoke to an HP representative in person – at a local retailer – and informed him that I was having to buy my new computer from Gateway and not from HP, as I had been planning to do since January, because HP refused to sell me a computer with XP installed rather than Vista – and was not providing drivers that would allow me to install XP myself.

        This individual explained that Microsoft was blackmailing the industry. He actually used the word “fined”, saying that Microsoft “fined” any manufacturer who sold a computer that did not have Vista installed.

        When I spoke with a Gateway salesman on the phone, he explained they had originally only sold new computers with Vista, but that only the week before they had started selling computers again with XP installed due to large numbers of customers who were asking for this. You have to pay a premium for XP and this confused me until I heard what Microsoft was doing.

        Microsoft is able to do this because all installations of Windows, whether XP or Vista, must be registered, or your computer will shut down and will not operate. If the computer vendor refuses to pay the “fine”, Microsoft will simply not recognize the XP installed on your new computer as legitimate. Microsoft’s explanation is that they no longer support XP as the operating system of choice – they want to force the pc world toward Vista. ( XP will probably be unattainable by the end of the year. )

        You may ask why Microsoft is so insistent on the changeover to Vista, when there seems to be strong consumer resistance to the new OS. You know, they could sell and support both operating systems at the same time. If Vista really is such a superior product, over a very short period, the consuming public would naturally move into the new OS.

        The answer is controversial, but designed into Vista are several things equally controversial: 1) Digital Rights Management, 2) Protected Video Path, and perhaps most controversial, 3) …” a revocation mechanism that allows Microsoft to disable drivers of compromised devices…” ( source, Wikipedia). The bottom line seems to be that, for the first time, Microsoft is now able to dictate hardware design, giving it unprecedented control over the entire computer industry.

        This just proves what a bunch of shonks Ms are in the industry trying to blackmaileveryone!!

    • #2584398

      recent posting reveals how ms doesn’t care

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      From info news
      Do you not remember the realease of EVERY OTHER os microsoft has released, it will have unchecked/sorted bugs for sure – just as long as they are generating money from it, who cares if the bloody thing doesn’t work!

      • #2584394

        recent posting shows vista sucks

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to recent posting reveals how ms doesn’t care

        From info news
        one user says VISTA It sucks.

        Some people think it wont suck. unless you connect it to a vacuum cleaner. Then it will just crash it because the drivers aren’t 64-bit aware. Then it won’t suck. But the good thing is that Bill Gates is retiring soon…Microsoft will never be the same again.

        No, it?s not at all certain that 90% of the world will be running Vista. What IS sure is that Vista will help drive more intelligent people to Mac or Linux. Frankly, I think Bill Gates may even give the word Vista a new definition:

        1. Proper Noun – The last operating system released by Microsoft before it became the world?s THIRD largest software manufacturer.

        2. Verb – To screw yourself by doing something incredibly stupid.

        Combine Vista with Zune, and you have an even bigger joke. No wonder poor Bill Gates is coming unhinged, making an ass out of himself on TV and blatantly lying about Vista. This is even making it easier for people to understand the truth about the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation – it?s a fraud, too.

    • #2584393

      recent posting reveals how ms doesn’t care

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      From info news
      Do you not remember the realease of EVERY OTHER os microsoft has released, it will have unchecked/sorted bugs for sure – just as long as they are generating money from it, who cares if the bloody thing doesn’t work!

      • #2584392

        why vista has flaws reported by a user

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to recent posting reveals how ms doesn’t care

        user reports at infonews
        I have both a Windows laptop (provided by my employer) and a Mac minitower (my personal computer). The Windows laptop get very frequent up dates as Microsoft finds more flaws in its OS. I have had a couple of updates just this week. The Mac get updates every few months many of which are more to update compatibility with new technology rather than to correct flaws in the OS. So, I would say that the Mac OS is much better than Windows in this respect.
        Add a Comment

      • #2584391

        why vista has flaws asreported by a user

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to recent posting reveals how ms doesn’t care

        user reports at infonews
        I have both a Windows laptop (provided by my employer) and a Mac minitower (my personal computer). The Windows laptop get very frequent up dates as Microsoft finds more flaws in its OS. I have had a couple of updates just this week. The Mac get updates every few months many of which are more to update compatibility with new technology rather than to correct flaws in the OS. So, I would say that the Mac OS is much better than Windows in this respect.
        Add a Comment

        • #2584390

          Bill makes an ass of himself on tv & gets caught

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to why vista has flaws asreported by a user

          lying about vista.
          Vista It sucks.

          Some people think it wont suck. unless you connect it to a vacuum cleaner. Then it will just crash it because the drivers aren’t 64-bit aware. Then it won’t suck. But the good thing is that Bill Gates is retiring soon…Microsoft will never be the same again.

          No, it?s not at all certain that 90% of the world will be running Vista. What IS sure is that Vista will help drive more intelligent people to Mac or Linux. Frankly, I think Bill Gates may even give the word Vista a new definition:

          1. Proper Noun – The last operating system released by Microsoft before it became the world?s THIRD largest software manufacturer.

          2. Verb – To screw yourself by doing something incredibly stupid.

          Combine Vista with Zune, and you have an even bigger joke. No wonder poor Bill Gates is coming unhinged, making an ass out of himself on TV and blatantly lying about Vista. This is even making it easier for people to understand the truth about the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation – it?s a fraud, too.

    • #2597171

      good old aussie know how has shown

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      that vista is in the slow lane of 15 % slower than xp.Well guys & gals i have been totally vindicated any comments are welcome.

      • #2597168

        well i have never met a more lazy bunch of

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to good old aussie know how has shown

        people than at tech republic.
        These people are a bunch of fence sitters
        & can’t comment for quits.Got no brains is better!!My challenge to you all 1. 5 million
        members to let you know & challenge you to prove that vista is better than xp!!!when i know it to be false vista is slower by 15% than xp.
        Prove it lets have some feed back

    • #2597573

      well independent tests have shown that vista is not good enough for gaming

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Adobe Production Studio CS3 will be Vista compliant, will the new version of AXIO Utils.Probably never!!
      Vista is a hog (albeit a pretty hog …), and should be avoided for any serious production at this time.

      I (and others) suggested to Matrox that they not waste the time on Vista until it is actually usable. I expect that it will be awhile …

      Benchmark tests done by independent labs, for instance, show render times (for popular 3D applications) under Vista are approximately 10 times longer than under XP Pro.Well guys & gals i have been vindicated.

    • #2586907

      total vindication

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      nothing less!!

    • #2596245

      well guys & gals there are still critical flaws in the vista

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Well no one fixes flaws in their op system after release like ms does.
      I rest my case

      • #2596244

        well a lot of people have blamed nividia for their

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to well guys & gals there are still critical flaws in the vista

        performance but not many have blamed ms for their critical flaws in their op system.
        Not NVidea’s fault?
        Reading Peter Gutmann’s original paper “A cost analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection” he was completely right in his predictions, that Vista would want graphics cards to do the impossible, and that Microsoft would then transfer the blame for high end cards not running well from the actual Vista operating system to the graphics hardware vendor.

        This is a classic example. Nvidia cards have always been one of the best brands of card on the market because of the drivers pulling every inch of power out of the cards. Now the goalposts have been moved and much more is expected of the card by the operating system BEFORE high powered games get to start utilising the GPU and it pushes Nvidia cards over the edge.

        Guttman writes: “As part of the bus-protection scheme, devices are required to implement AES-128 encryption in order to receive content from Vista. This has to be done via a hardware decryption engine on the graphics chip, which would typically be implemented by throwing away a GPU rendering pipeline or two to make room for the AES engine.

        Establishing the AES key with the device hardware requires further cryptographic overhead, in this case a 2048-bit Diffie-Hellman key exchange whose 2K-bit output is converted to a 128-bit AES key via a Davies-Meyer hash with AES as its block transformation component. In programmable devices this can be done (with considerable effort) in the device (for example in programmable shader hardware), or more simply by throwing out a few more rendering pipelines and implementing a public-key-cryptography engine in the freed-up space.”

        This is particularly of interest to NVidia users as previously ALL the available pipelines were used by the drivers to provide extra performance. Vista evidently requires that the entire workings of drivers be altered to suit itself, and the higher performance a driver previously was, the harder it will be for it to adjust to deliberately cutting out some of it’s performance ability.

        So I ask again, is this REALLY all Nvidia’s fault, or the product of a fundamentally flawed requirement of the operating system?

        • #2596241

          dell does not offer vista but xp

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well a lot of people have blamed nividia for their

          Dell offers Windows XP again but wants you to buy Vista
          Posted Apr 20th 2007 12:00PM by Brad Linder
          Filed under: OS Updates, Windows

          Dell is paying attention to the feedback gathered from its IdeaStorm site, and it’s making some changes. No, they’re not offering a system with Linux preloaded just yet. But they are bringing back the option of ordering a new PC with Windows XP.

          While Microsoft plans to kill off Windows XP by the end of the year, many users are still a bit nervous about running th newer Vista operating system.

          There may be compatibility issues with software they need to run, or they might just not feel like learning a whole new operating system when they’re perfectly happy with the one they’ve been using for the last five years. And most people remember that Windows XP got a lot better with Service Pack 2, so they might be holding out for Vista updates.

          Anyway, Dell is offering new computer buyers the choice to buy a system preloaded with Vista or XP. But as you can tell from the chart above, they try to stack things in favor of Vista by pointing out all the things it can do that XP can’t. Noticeably absent from the list? Boot up quickly.

          [via CyberNotes]
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          Reader Comments
          (Page 1)
          1. So few people want Vista, that a gigantic OEM ( first of many? ) is bringing back the previous generation operating system? Yet the operating system maker is going to kill of that very OS?

          I think we are reaching “The Singularity”…

          …where Microsoft’s hostility and contempt towards its paying customers causes its own self-extinction.

          Posted at 12:59PM on Apr 20th 2007 by Todd

          2. I think item 2 incompasses boot up quickly:

          “Excellent speeds for Startup, Shutdown and Resume times.”

          Besides which I’ve found the boot up speeds faster than XP on my machine. But I can imagine it being slower on an older computer.

          Posted at 1:11PM on Apr 20th 2007 by Jean

          3. Whoops, you’re absolutely right. That would cover booting up. I’ve found that Vista definitely boots slower on my system than XP. That said, the sleep function does work pretty well, so I rarely shut my machine down entirely.

          Posted at 1:12PM on Apr 20th 2007 by Brad Linder

          4. I’m amazed at how many programs don’t work with Vista. I don’t understand why this is, but its a show stopper for many businesses. Two examples:

          Sonicwall VPN client

          Trend Micro officescan client (enterprise anti virus)

          Posted at 2:24PM on Apr 20th 2007 by Myron

          5. Its not their fault nobody fixed their crapplications/drivers on time and its not their fault that they are trying to make $.

          XP is six-year old tech – get over it…

          Posted at 2:42PM on Apr 20th 2007 by Gyp Joe

          6. “Its not their fault nobody fixed their crapplications/drivers on time and its not their fault that they are trying to make $.

          XP is six-year old tech – get over it…”

          It’s not Microsoft’s fault, per se, that some applications don’t work on Vista — that is, I think it would be unreasonable to hold them to 100% backward compatibility — but it *is* Dell’s fault for pulling the option of keeping XP even though they must surely be aware that some popular applications haven’t been updated.

          Try to put yourself in the shoes of a developer. You spend a lot of time and money making an application. You sell it somebody. Now, that same somebody comes back a month or a year later and wants you to spend more of your time and money updating it so that it will work with their new operating system — and they probably expect you to do it for free. Why should you? You advertised that it would work in XP; you never said anything about Vista. It’s basically an act of charity (or marketing/garnering goodwill) to update your product for free.

          As for XP being “six-year-old tech”… what’s so new about Vista? Oooh, sparkly! Wow, it uses a 3D card to accelerate rendering… that’s, um, useful? Seriously, what does Vista do that XP doesn’t, other than suck up extra RAM to prettify your environment?

          Posted at 3:49PM on Apr 20th 2007 by James

          7. I think microsoft and the OEMs are realizing they came on a bit strong with the vista launch. basically, with all the developers being lazy (and YES it is third party developer’s faults in most cases. In fact, if the developers weren’t lazy in the first place their applications would still work on Vista and all we’d be waiting for is driver support) I don’t think Vista is likely to meet a large portion of people’s needs this early on.

          Should people make the switch anyways and get used to the next generation of Windows? Yup. But should Microsoft or Dell be forcing it when it’ll happen over time anyways? That’s just bad practice.

          This winter buying season’s going to see the release of SP1, as well as ANOTHER year (video card delvopers have had a year and a half before the release with the new video stack…so maybe with 50% more time…) of updates and drivers and new versions of applications…

          No, this won’t be the corparte market, the one needed for vista to be a success, but the home market embracing it this winter will be the bit indicator of how quickly vista will take over.

          And BTW: Ideastorm is one of the single worst and most abused sites on the internet. The fact that Dell is actually taking advice for from this gathering of rabid fanboys and evangelicals is disturbing. The vast majority of people requesting XP again are more than likely Linux people DESPERATE for Vista to fail.

          Posted at 3:56PM on Apr 20th 2007 by spencer.r

          8. “Try to put yourself in the shoes of a developer. You spend a lot of time and money making an application. You sell it somebody.”

          Actually in almost ALL of the cases…programmers invest as little time and energy into a application as possible…which leads to bad compatibility when Vista asks for applications to use it’s apis and libraries the way they were supposed to be used.

          Posted at 4:00PM on Apr 20th 2007 by spencer.r

          9. “…The vast majority of people requesting XP again are more than likely Linux people DESPERATE for Vista to fail.”

          Vista HAS failed:

          “…So while Microsoft spent millions to promote Vista in China, the company apparently sold just 244 copies of the operating system during the first two weeks it was legally available in China.”

          http://tinyurl.com/26bz25

          Posted at 4:10PM on Apr 20th 2007 by Todd

          10. So you give ONE report of a country that is well known for it’s rampant piracy having problems selling legitimate copies of Vista…ignoring the fact that the article is compleatly off topic to try to misrepresent the facts of the matter.

          And actually comments on the next line that the PIRATED version of Vista is in HIGH demand on china’s black market.

          Vista has outsold XP in it’s opening months world wide as a whole in the past few months. It hasn’t failed. It isn’t ME. It isn’t Bob. It’s a new operating system that comes with it’s own collection of headaches. XP was almost the exact same way(bad drivers, incompatible programs, and frustrating restrictions), and the fact that most people don’t remember that shows how short the memory span of the internet is.

        • #2596238

          vista flaws

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to dell does not offer vista but xp

          How do you expect Microsoft’s new Vista operating system to go over with consumers?

          A smash hit A middling success A mild disappointment An abject failure

          306 votes
          (10%) 1411 votes
          (43%) 1142 votes
          (36%) 340 votes
          (11%)

          Total Votes : 3199

          responses
          As usual, Microsoft will be trashed for developing a huge, pig of a program that doesn’t do everything the way people want it to, yet it will be hailed as too complicated. Windows is in a no-win situation with any release. They are the big monopolistic bully with the huge cashflow that everyone loves to hate.

          I personally believe Windows is an outstanding application that, despite it’s massive monopoly on the market, continues to add more features that are integrated into the operating system instead of charging extra for them as stand-alone programs. My only complaint is the speed at which they are able to deliver these additional features. They have become too large to be agile. <>

          And I predict the security for this version will be no better than previous versions. Expect patches upon patches to plug holes that dubious programmers exploit for sheer sport. But don’t blame MS for the security issues – blame the rogue hackers that spend countless hours searching for a way to destroy others’ good work. Nobody could effectively anticipate every way a community of punks could try to penetrate an operating system that is so widely used and poorly understood by endusers.

          And no, I am not a programmer, nor do I even work for a software company. I am an accountant by trade.

          suspect that most consumers will not upgrade to Vista unless by default. But eventually, it will happen…. probably because it will come with the new PC that we’ll all be buying some time over the next 3 years.

          I tried Linux on one of my home PC’s last year and I could not find an internet content filter that would adequately protect my daughters from the filth that is out there. There probably is a way to do it, but the convenience of using Windows XP is compelling for a busy family man. For all their faults — and we all fall short — Microsoft makes it easy to stay a customer.

          Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:26 am Post subject: Re: How do you expect Microsoft’s new Vista operating system to go over with consumers?

          ——————————————————————————–

          I don’t really care. I’m sure it will be at least a mild success. In my humble opinion software is supposed to facilitate our work and our lives and should otherwise be invisible. It is not supposed to become the work or even be of particular interest to anyone outside of the software development industry.

          There is nothing much more annoying than having to spend time figuring out why the latest patch didn’t work or going out to buy new peripherals because of software changes when the old ones work perfectly fine.

          Computers are appliances. Most people would be very upset if they had to replace their refrigerator every couple of years.
          i have been using vista for almost a month now.. and there’s nothing in there that should of taken 5 years to do … things work pretty much the same as in xp … seems to me that there are several new features but those are not worth the upgrade price tag or the hardware upgrades….
          perhaps security is better but perhaps not.. the main thing i’ve noticed is that there is a nagging message that shows up right before you install stuff…. surely hackers can find a way to get around that to install malicious software.
          It offers no innovation – all of it’s great new features have been part of OS X for a while. There is some security improvement, but fault will be found.

          In my environment I run a combination of Windows, Macs and Linux boxes. The Macs never crash, even when MS office or explorer lock up. The users really enjoy the ease of use and reliability (not to mention the quiet). These still can’t be beat for graphic design work.

          The Linux boxes are great at server tasks; DHCP, email, security, DNS, etc – but users still find it too intimidating to be thought of as a desktop. (though I’ve seen Ubuntu and like it)

          Windows – it’s familiar so people use it and it works well for general office tasks.

          What will it take to crack the Windows near monoploy? I have no idea – but we’re stuck with Vista for the next few years.
          I am currently running Vista (production version) on one of my computers that was previously running XP. Functionally it works the same as XP just a lot slower. I am sure there are new features in Vista that eventually I will see how they will benefit me and make my life easier, however, all I notice today is the significant slow down in performance (my PC has 1.8GHz Celeron with 500MB Memory). This coupled with the lack of drivers for printers and other peripherals underscores the question that one should ask themselves prior to upgrading, what is it in Vista that I need that XP cannot provide.

          The reason that I installed Vista was to test my company’s software products and make any necessary changes to the software and installation to support Vista. This is an important point as like myself and my company other software vendors will need to do the same and most likely made changes to their programs to support Vista. What this means to the general population of customers that migrate to Vista out of the gates is a certain percentage of the programs that run under XP will not perform correctly in Vista.

          I would expect than in a year from now many people will have moved over to Vista and be equally as pleased with it as they are with XP today. However, like any software early adopters will have to fight through the bugs not only with the operating system but with the drivers and other 3rd party applications.
          Bravo, thats exactly what I’ve done. I downloaded a beta version of Vista and found it to be bloated and slow. I wiped the computer clean and installed Ubuntu Linux. It’s rock solid stable, visually pretty, fast, and using the Linux package “Wine”, I can run any Windows program. And it’s free.
          don’t see any need to “upgrade” to Vista. My fear, however, is that I will be forced to use Office 2007 when others with whom I deal start using it. In typical MS fashion, documents created on Word 2007 will not be readable by Word 2003. The recent Mossberg review of Office 2007 left me wondering if Microsoft actually reads any criticism on behalf of users.

          shit yes

        • #2596237

          vista not the smash hit it is

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista flaws

          Support Notice

          G/Technology Vista statement

          The current 9.33 or earlier G/Technology application suites have not been certified against the Microsoft Vista platform. Currently, there are no plans to certify the G/Technology 9.33 application suites on Microsoft Vista.

          G/Technology will include Vista client support in the 10.0 platform. This release is planned for August 2007 and will include full certification of all clients on Vista (Desktop, NetViewer, MobileViewer, NetExport client).

          Following the 9.4 release, testing will be performed on 9.4 maintenance releases on the Vista operating system. Any faults attributable to the operating system within the G/Technology software will be corrected and included in a post-RTM 9.4 maintenance release. Expected availability for this release is Q3 2007. Functional changes to take advantage of Vista capabilities will be considered in the future but are not currently planned.

          FRAMME has a core dependency on MicroStation/J from Bentley. MicroStation/J is compatible with the commercial version of Windows NT 4, Windows 98 and Windows 95 on Intel compatible computers and workstations. At this time, we are not aware of Bentley’s plan for this version on the Vista operating system.

          Initial testing by Intergraph of MicroStation/J running on the Vista OS has been successful. However, the tests to date have been very limited. Beginning in Q2 2007, a simplified set of validation tests will be exercised for the FRAMME products. Any faults attributable to the operating system within the FRAMME software family will be corrected and included in fixes releases. This support extends only to the 04.00.08/3.4/1.3 and 04.01.00/3.5/1.4 releases of FRAMME and FRS / Field View / Web View respectively. However, no full certification on this operating system is planned for any future release. The FKT products (Rulebase Builder, Nucleus and Function Library) are excluded from this test plan. No future releases of this suite are planned.

          Functional changes to take advantage of Vista capabilities within the FRAMME suite of products will not be implemented.

          There are no plans to test the currently released versions of InService on the Vista platform. InService 8.1, scheduled to be released during the fourth quarter of 2007, will support the Vista operating system.

    • #2596567

      vista flaws remain unfixed

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Despite Microsoft assertions about the improved reliability of Vista, many in the industry are taking a wait-and-see approach. Microsoft?s previous operating system, Windows XP, required two ?service packs? issued over a number of years to substantially improve security, and new flaws are still routinely discovered by outside researchers.

      On Friday, a Microsoft executive posted a comment on a company security information Web site stating the company was ?closely monitoring? the vulnerability described by the Russian Web site. It permits the privileges of a standard user account in Vista and other versions of Windows to be increased, permitting control of all of the operations of the computer. In Unix and modern Windows systems, users are restricted in the functions they can perform, and complete power is restricted to certain administrative accounts.

      ?Currently we have not observed any public exploitation or attack activity regarding this issue,? wrote Mike Reavey, operations manager of the Microsoft Security Response Center. ?While I know this is a vulnerability that impacts Windows Vista, I still have every confidence that Windows Vista is our most secure platform to date.?

      On Saturday, Nicole Miller, a Microsoft spokeswoman, said the company was also investigating the reported browser flaw and that it was not aware of any attacks attempting to use the vulnerability.

      Microsoft has spent millions branding the Vista operating system as the most secure product it has produced, and it is counting on Vista to help turn the tide against a wave of software attacks now plaguing Windows-based computers.

      Vista is critical to Microsoft?s reputation. Despite an almost four-and-half-year campaign on the part of the company, and the best efforts of the computer security industry, the threat from harmful computer software continues to grow. Criminal attacks now range from programs that steal information from home and corporate PCs to growing armies of slave computers that are wreaking havoc on the commercial Internet.

      Although Vista, which will be available on consumer PCs early next year, has been extensively tested, it is only now being exposed to the challenges of the open Internet.

      ?I don?t think people should become complacent,? said Nand Mulchandani, a vice president at Determina. ?When vendors say a program has been completely rewritten, it doesn?t mean that it?s more secure from the get-go. My expectation is we will see a whole rash of Vista bugs show up in six months or a year.?

      The Determina executives said that by itself, the browser flaw that was reported to Microsoft could permit damage like the theft of password information and the attack of other computers.

      However, one of the principal security advances of Internet Explorer 7 is a software ?sandbox? that is intended to limit damage even if a malicious program is able to subvert the operation of the browser. That should limit the ability of any attacker to reach other parts of the Vista operating system, or to overwrite files.

      However, when coupled with the ability of the first flaw that permits the change in account privileges, it might then be possible to circumvent the sandbox controls, said Alexander Sotirov, a Determina security researcher. In that case it would make it possible to alter files and potentially permanently infect a target computer. This kind of attack has yet to be proved, he acknowledged.

      The Determina researchers said they had notified Microsoft of four other flaws they had discovered, including a bug that would make it possible for an attacker to repeatedly disable a Microsoft Exchange mail server simply by sending the program an infected e-mail message.

      Last week, the chief technology officer of Trend Micro, a computer security firm in Tokyo, told several computer news Web sites that he had discovered an offer on an underground computer discussion forum to sell information about a security flaw in Windows Vista for $50,000. Over the weekend a spokesman for Trend Micro said that the company had not obtained the information, and as a result could not confirm the authenticity of the offer.

      Many computer security companies say that there is a lively underground market for
      internet hacking.

      • #2596564

        recent flaws point to vista code problems

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to vista flaws remain unfixed

        Microsoft officially launched Vista for consumers in January, promoting the operating system as the most secure version of Windows yet. It is the first client version of Windows built with security in mind, meaning that it should have fewer coding errors that might be exploited in attacks, Microsoft has said.

        Yet the “critical” hole that affected much older Windows versions also hit Vista. The vulnerability lies in the way Windows handles animated cursors and could let an attacker commandeer a PC when the user views a malicious Web site or e-mail message.

        The cursor flaw lies in the operating system code. This means that any application that relies on the operating system to handle animated cursor files could be an attack vector. This includes alternative browsers, such as Firefox.

        Video: Hacking a Vista PC
        Determina experts explain how to exploit animated-cursor flaw.
        It is a flaw that should have been caught by Microsoft’s code-vetting processes for Vista, called the Security Development Lifecycle, some experts said. The flaw is also evidence that faulty code from previous Windows versions has been copied into Vista, they said.

        “It is a little premature to attack the whole effort altogether, but this is something that the Security Development Lifecycle should have caught,” said Amol Sarwate, a research manager at vulnerability management company Qualys.

        The buffer overflow vulnerability in the cursor function in particular should have already been fixed because a bug in the same Windows component was patched two years ago, said Rohit Dhamankar, manager of security research at TippingPoint, a seller of intrusion prevention products. That should have prompted re-examination of the code, Dhamankar said.

        Microsoft disputes that it should have caught the cursor bug before. People who say so don’t understand security vulnerabilities because not all bugs are created equal, said Stephen Toulouse, senior product manager in Microsoft’s Security Technology Unit.

        “In the case of the cursor vulnerability, even though something may look similar to the outside, that doesn’t mean the code is anything alike to the previous vulnerability,” Toulouse said. “The SDL was never meant to catch every single vulnerability, period.”

        But Dhamankar argues that Microsoft forgot to recheck all the possibilities that could lead to a buffer overflow after the original bug was found and patched in 2005.

        Mulchandani agreed. “The dirty little secret is that Microsoft clearly did not write Vista from scratch. They did not completely build a whole new code base for this operating system. Every version of Windows since Windows NT has had this flaw in it,” he said.

        Microsoft does acknowledge that Vista will have vulnerabilities. “There are going to be other vulnerabilities. The SDL is not a process by which no vulnerabilities will ever occur. There is no process on this planet that can do that,” Toulouse said.

        Now on News.com
        The iPhone has landed

        New GPL reflects software shifts

        Putting the ‘super’ in supercomputer

        Extra: IBM 1401 Mainframe, the musical The cursor flaw is like a sign post for the bug hunters. Hackers will now be looking for bugs in similar Windows components to find ways to attack Vista.

        “This has been a very significant break and it definitely gives a big pointer,” Dhamankar said. “If more such errors are found later, Vista is not going to be able to offer the great protection that’s claimed.”

        Still, Microsoft’s Vista security promise doesn’t fall apart because of this single vulnerability. Vista is more secure than XP or any other Microsoft client operating system, Sarwate said. “If you consider Windows 2000, XP, 2003, I would still say that Vista is more secure than all the other operating systems,” he said.

        Mulchandani also said that, while Microsoft has taken way too big a bite at the security message, Vista is more secure than its predecessors because of features such as User Account Control and others that limit privileges on the operating system.

        And that’s just the goal Microsoft was aiming for, Toulouse said.

        “You have to look at Vista versus XP. A lot of people are holding Vista up and saying in a vacuum it will reach some nirvana of security,” Toulouse said. “Our whole goal with Windows Vista was to create a fundamentally more secure operating system than we have ever created previously.”

        • #2596560

          xp turnaround was better

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to recent flaws point to vista code problems

          Microsoft better at patching XP than Vista
          Submitted Sunday, June 24, 2007 @ 11:30 PM
          Microsoft company information – ( Microsoft News )
          infoworld.com — A Microsoft security executive released data Thursday showing that, six months after shipping Windows Vista, his company has left more publicly disclosed Vista bugs unpatched than it did with Windows XP.

    • #2601489

      vista performance testing woes

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Vista Performance Shootout: Upgrade Vs. Clean Installation

      Benchmark Test Bed and Software
      As we always do, we took meticulous care to generate fair, accurate and repeatable scores. We performed all of the tests on the exact same system, altering none of the hardware. For the Windows Vista tests, we used all of the same driver versions. The computer’s graphics system is an ATI X1900 XTX CrossFire configuration; we enabled CrossFire through the driver interface and it remained on for all of the tests. Nothing was overclocked for these tests.

      The system was configured as follows:

      Motherboard ASUS A8R-MVP (a sturdy and well-regarded CrossFire board)

      CPU AMD Athlon FX-60 (it’s a classic)

      Memory 2GB Crucial Ballistix

      Graphics ATI Radeon X1900XTX CrossFire (Catalyst 7.1)

      Audio Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Fatal1ty (driver v.2_13_0001)

      Storage Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 300GB

      The performance tests we used were:

      PCMark05?Default run. (Note that this benchmark failed to run on the Vista upgrade. It simply closed without so much as an error message, probably because of an as-yet-undocumented incompatibility. Since this report is intended to compare a Vista upgrade to a Vista clean installation, the results were useless; we did, however, provide the results of the XP baseline tests and the Vista clean installation test for the sake of curiosity.) UPDATE: After many hours of fidgeting with Windows, uninstalling programs, and searching deep for incompatibilities, we managed to get the benchmark to run in the stripped version of Windows Vista. It simply refused to run in the raw in-place upgrade. We’re continuing our investigations?in the meantime, the pertinent results chart has been updated.
      3DMark06?Default run at low resolution (1024×768) and high resolution (1600×1200)
      Doom 3?Ran with default high quality settings at low res (1024×768) and high res (1600×1200, 4xAA).
      Half-Life 2Lost Coast?Run with default settings at low res (1024×768) and high res (1600×1200, 4xAA).
      Company of Heroes?Run with default settings at low res (1024×768) and high res (1600×1200, AA enabled).
      F.E.A.R.?Run with default settings at low res (1024×768) and high res (1600×1200, 4xAA).
      For encoding benchmarks, we used the MainConcept MPEG and H.264 encoders to encode a WMV HD video clip of The Magic of Flight (IMAX). We encoded the clip as MPEG-2 and H.264 files respectively, to the default NTSC settings.

      Note: We ran each of the performance tests three times and averaged them, rounding to the first decimal. In the case of Doom 3, which skips and starts on the first run of a timedemo, we ran the tests four times and threw out the first run.

    • #2607677

      Acer chiefdeals death blow to windows vista

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Once again more & more people are coming out & expressing themselves.
      Vista a dud, says Acer’s LanciFont Size: Decrease Increase Print Page: Print Correspondents in Frankfurt | July 24, 2007
      THE head of PC maker Acer, Gianfranco Lanci, has hit out at Microsoft’s Windows Vista operating system, saying that the “entire industry” was disappointed by it.

      Few buyers have purchased new PCs specifically for Vista, Acer’s chief says
      “The entire industry is disappointed by Windows Vista,” the head of the world’s fourth-biggest PC maker told the Financial Times Deutschland in its online edition on Monday.
      Never before had a new version of Windows done so little to boost PC sales, he said.

      “And that’s not going to change in the second half of this year,” Mr Lanci said.

      “I really don’t think that someone has bought a new PC specifically for Vista.”

      Microsoft’s operating system commands a market share of around 90 per cent, with Apple and Linux accounting for the rest.

      While the industry had waited for years for Vista, the software was not really ready when it was launched to great pomp at the start of this year, Mr Lanci complained.

      “Stability is certainly a problem,” he said.
      Well i said that nearly a year ago that stability would be a big problem.
      Once again i have been totally vindicated.!!!
      ta mick

      • #2607675

        recent tests on rendering times show that vista is

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Acer chiefdeals death blow to windows vista

        slower than xp by 20%.
        well vista is hopeless for gaming.
        ta mick

        • #2609345

          vista chief resigns due to vista failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to recent tests on rendering times show that vista is

          The reasons given for stepping down are related to Gates wanting to spend more time working for the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, for which he?s been working part-time . But looking at recent events and the situation at Microsoft, you can?t help but wonder if that really is the (only) reason for Gates stepping down. With the company facing a number of issues, and being in the middle of the ever delaying Windows Vista and Office 2007 development cycle, I?m sure he could have waited and picked a better time for his announcement, say, after Windows Vista and Office 2007
          I think the reason for Gates stepping down is that he is basically admitting his failure. I?m not sure if he is doing it himself, or if he?s being pressed by others to do it. But he, or others around him, have probably come to realize that his performance and his results as Chief Software Architect have not been very good in the last 3-5 years, and only seem to get worse. Gates himself has said that he feels very excited about things like voice recognition, tablet PC, unified filesystems and many other things that he feels that he still needs to help realize and it doesn?t make sense to me that someone who is excited about this would step down and go focus on unrelated things at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. It seems to me that if he was really excited about his work at Microsoft, he?d want to stay. That?s not an unreasonable assumption to make for someone as passionate as Gates, if you ask me. It looks like it?s just not as fun anymore for Gates, not fun enough for him to want to stay, in any case.

          One of the biggest failures of Gates is Windows Vista. When Windows Vista and Office 2007 miss their release dates, people often begin to blame Steve Ballmer. And as CEO, he has the ultimate responsibility, but the real guy in charge of Windows Vista is Bill Gates. Afterall, he was the Chief Software Architect, and the most senior technical guy responsible for making Vista development a success. And the way Windows Vista?s development went is nothing to be proud of to say the least. It?s a classic case of overpromising and underdelivering.

          I still have the PDC 2003 DVDs with all the sessions about the various new technologies and features that would make their way into Windows Vista. It was very exciting to see that, but very little of those features are going to make it into Windows Vista. Microsoft has been either completely removing features out of Windows Vista, even major ones like WinFS, or seriously scaling back other planned features. What remains now of Windows Vista is just a tiny part of what it was really supposed to be. And even then, its release is continiously being delayed. I?ve tried beta versions of Windows Vista, and the quality of the beta releases are less compared to previous betas I?ve been in. When Beta 1 was released it just seemed like they had to release it just so they could keep their promise of releasing it on schedule. There were such obvious bugs in it, I kept wondering how people missed those. The answer, ofcourse, is not that they missed those bugs, they just didn?t have enough time to fix them and have a more quality Beta 1 release. Even the Beta 2 release lacks quality. And just like they released Beta 1 just because they had to keep their promise, they promissed to release Windows Vista by the end of the year for businesses, with the consumer versions being released in January 2007. I don?t know about you, but that seems rather odd to me. If the consumer versions can?t be finished by the end of the year, why can the business versions be ready then? Weren?t all the versions supposed to be released on a single DVD?

          It just looks like they?re saying that the business versions of Windows Vista will be ready before the end of 2006 just to lessen the impact of another delay for the short term. . I?ve been saying before that they should have taken the time required to do it right, instead of giving out unrealistic release dates. The whole issue they?re having now is because of their own stupidity.
          One of the major screwups that Gates was in charge of is WinFS, which was supposed to make it into Windows Vista. It was so important in fact, that it was called one of the pillars of Windows Vista. First it was taken out of Windows Vista, and it was said that it would be released after Windows Vista was released as an add-on. And now, it?s been announced that WinFS will not be released anymore as a seperate add-on. It?s been broken up, with bits and pieces of it going to SQL Server and ADO.NET. So there will not be a relational filesystem anymore. Take the time to read that blogentry with the announcement, and notice how Microsoft is trying to make it sound like this is a positive thing. You really have to appreciate the attempts at deception there, because they?re quite good. Here they are, essentially announcing ?Hey, we?re going to stop working on WinFS, and we?re not going to release it anymore as an add-on for Windows Vista?, and they expect you to fall for the positive spin they put on it, trying to deflect your attention away from the fact that they failed to deliver what they promised. And according to the announcement, we?re supposed to like this because it was done ?based on feedback they received.? I wonder who they got that feedback from, since last I checked, everyone was hoping WinFS would be released and bring us a relational filesystem. And we?re talking about what was once considered a pillar of Windows Vista!

          Why can?t they just admit they screwed up? Just admit WinFS was too difficult a task for you, and explain why you can?t finish it, instead of trying to fool people. And WinFS was one of the things that Gates stood behind and wanted to get into Vista really badly. Together with the rest of the whole Vista mess, I think this is why Gates has stepped down. His other efforts like the tablet PC and Origami were also not very successful. If these are really the reasons why he?s stepping down, you have to wonder why he doesn?t just come out and admit it. The senior leadership at Microsoft just doesn?t seem to want to admit their failures these days. They don?t seem to want to hold themselves accountable. And if they do, they just ?retire,? often with a 1 or 2 year transition period, not actually taking any blame and making their exit seem positive.

          And now, the one guy that was setting the example for everyone else at Microsoft has left them. Yeah, I?m talking about Robert Scoble. I don?t think you?ll find anyone who won?t admit that Scoble has a done a lot for Microsoft?s public image, particularly, making the company seem more human. As early as 2003 he put up a list of points on his old weblog, explaining the things companies need to do if they want to put up a company weblog. Those points are exactly the things Microsoft needs to do right now, and I?m surprised they haven?t been paying more (any?) attention to the points Scoble listed there. I?m quite sure Scoble probably told them about those things much earlier and often as well, but it doesn?t seem like people were paying attention. At least, the senior management at Microsoft didn?t even seem to notice. I don?t think Ballmer or Gates even took the time to try and talk Scoble out of leaving Microsoft, which is a clear indication of how much they valued what he was doing for Microsoft, and how much they understand the need for what he was doing at Microsoft.

          Microsoft is dealing with a number of problems right now, and in a future post I?ll talk about those problems and about the things they need to do to make things better for the future.

        • #2609344

          vista chief resigns due to vista failure

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to recent tests on rendering times show that vista is

          The reasons given for stepping down are related to Gates wanting to spend more time working for the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, for which he?s been working part-time . But looking at recent events and the situation at Microsoft, you can?t help but wonder if that really is the (only) reason for Gates stepping down. With the company facing a number of issues, and being in the middle of the ever delaying Windows Vista and Office 2007 development cycle, I?m sure he could have waited and picked a better time for his announcement, say, after Windows Vista and Office 2007
          I think the reason for Gates stepping down is that he is basically admitting his failure. I?m not sure if he is doing it himself, or if he?s being pressed by others to do it. But he, or others around him, have probably come to realize that his performance and his results as Chief Software Architect have not been very good in the last 3-5 years, and only seem to get worse. Gates himself has said that he feels very excited about things like voice recognition, tablet PC, unified filesystems and many other things that he feels that he still needs to help realize and it doesn?t make sense to me that someone who is excited about this would step down and go focus on unrelated things at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. It seems to me that if he was really excited about his work at Microsoft, he?d want to stay. That?s not an unreasonable assumption to make for someone as passionate as Gates, if you ask me. It looks like it?s just not as fun anymore for Gates, not fun enough for him to want to stay, in any case.

          One of the biggest failures of Gates is Windows Vista. When Windows Vista and Office 2007 miss their release dates, people often begin to blame Steve Ballmer. And as CEO, he has the ultimate responsibility, but the real guy in charge of Windows Vista is Bill Gates. Afterall, he was the Chief Software Architect, and the most senior technical guy responsible for making Vista development a success. And the way Windows Vista?s development went is nothing to be proud of to say the least. It?s a classic case of overpromising and underdelivering.

          I still have the PDC 2003 DVDs with all the sessions about the various new technologies and features that would make their way into Windows Vista. It was very exciting to see that, but very little of those features are going to make it into Windows Vista. Microsoft has been either completely removing features out of Windows Vista, even major ones like WinFS, or seriously scaling back other planned features. What remains now of Windows Vista is just a tiny part of what it was really supposed to be. And even then, its release is continiously being delayed. I?ve tried beta versions of Windows Vista, and the quality of the beta releases are less compared to previous betas I?ve been in. When Beta 1 was released it just seemed like they had to release it just so they could keep their promise of releasing it on schedule. There were such obvious bugs in it, I kept wondering how people missed those. The answer, ofcourse, is not that they missed those bugs, they just didn?t have enough time to fix them and have a more quality Beta 1 release. Even the Beta 2 release lacks quality. And just like they released Beta 1 just because they had to keep their promise, they promissed to release Windows Vista by the end of the year for businesses, with the consumer versions being released in January 2007. I don?t know about you, but that seems rather odd to me. If the consumer versions can?t be finished by the end of the year, why can the business versions be ready then? Weren?t all the versions supposed to be released on a single DVD?

          It just looks like they?re saying that the business versions of Windows Vista will be ready before the end of 2006 just to lessen the impact of another delay for the short term. . I?ve been saying before that they should have taken the time required to do it right, instead of giving out unrealistic release dates. The whole issue they?re having now is because of their own stupidity.
          One of the major screwups that Gates was in charge of is WinFS, which was supposed to make it into Windows Vista. It was so important in fact, that it was called one of the pillars of Windows Vista. First it was taken out of Windows Vista, and it was said that it would be released after Windows Vista was released as an add-on. And now, it?s been announced that WinFS will not be released anymore as a seperate add-on. It?s been broken up, with bits and pieces of it going to SQL Server and ADO.NET. So there will not be a relational filesystem anymore. Take the time to read that blogentry with the announcement, and notice how Microsoft is trying to make it sound like this is a positive thing. You really have to appreciate the attempts at deception there, because they?re quite good. Here they are, essentially announcing ?Hey, we?re going to stop working on WinFS, and we?re not going to release it anymore as an add-on for Windows Vista?, and they expect you to fall for the positive spin they put on it, trying to deflect your attention away from the fact that they failed to deliver what they promised. And according to the announcement, we?re supposed to like this because it was done ?based on feedback they received.? I wonder who they got that feedback from, since last I checked, everyone was hoping WinFS would be released and bring us a relational filesystem. And we?re talking about what was once considered a pillar of Windows Vista!

          Why can?t they just admit they screwed up? Just admit WinFS was too difficult a task for you, and explain why you can?t finish it, instead of trying to fool people. And WinFS was one of the things that Gates stood behind and wanted to get into Vista really badly. Together with the rest of the whole Vista mess, I think this is why Gates has stepped down. His other efforts like the tablet PC and Origami were also not very successful. If these are really the reasons why he?s stepping down, you have to wonder why he doesn?t just come out and admit it. The senior leadership at Microsoft just doesn?t seem to want to admit their failures these days. They don?t seem to want to hold themselves accountable. And if they do, they just ?retire,? often with a 1 or 2 year transition period, not actually taking any blame and making their exit seem positive.

          And now, the one guy that was setting the example for everyone else at Microsoft has left them. Yeah, I?m talking about Robert Scoble. I don?t think you?ll find anyone who won?t admit that Scoble has a done a lot for Microsoft?s public image, particularly, making the company seem more human. As early as 2003 he put up a list of points on his old weblog, explaining the things companies need to do if they want to put up a company weblog. Those points are exactly the things Microsoft needs to do right now, and I?m surprised they haven?t been paying more (any?) attention to the points Scoble listed there. I?m quite sure Scoble probably told them about those things much earlier and often as well, but it doesn?t seem like people were paying attention. At least, the senior management at Microsoft didn?t even seem to notice. I don?t think Ballmer or Gates even took the time to try and talk Scoble out of leaving Microsoft, which is a clear indication of how much they valued what he was doing for Microsoft, and how much they understand the need for what he was doing at Microsoft.

    • #2608514

      Well guys & gals just as predicted vista was going to be a dud

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      I recently had a chance to speak to some developers who are working on vertical market software solutions, and they HATE Vista. The DRM features are making it difficult to get certified audio drivers for specialty cards, networking issues are delaying development, and Vista’s security is causing massive headaches for the whole development team. This is after 1.5 years of time developing for Vista. It is almost to the point that they are unsure as to the future of their product, because Microsoft is saying they will cease supporting/selling XP in December.

      On a consumer level, the different versions of Vista seem to be causing some problems as well. People are buying cheaper versions and not understanding why they don’t have Aero and other features they need. While this is a consumer research problem, some of the responsibility falls on Microsoft for taking such a poor approach to naming and selling Vista. Throw in the stiff system requirements, and Vista is just not going anywhere fast.

      Vista may be the last full OS release from Microsoft as we know them now. They need to make MAJOR changes if they are going to remain competitive beyond the pre-installed user base.
      Wellneed i say more folks than to say i was right all allong!!!!
      ta mick

      • #2608513

        another nail in the coffin for vista!!

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Well guys & gals just as predicted vista was going to be a dud

        The entire industry is disappointed by Windows Vista,? the head of the world?s fourth-biggest PC maker told the Financial Times Deutschland in its online edition on Monday?.Never before had a new version of Windows done so little to boost PC sales?..?And that?s not going to change in the second half of this year,? Lanci said?.I really don?t think that someone has bought a new PC specifically for Vista,? he added.

        Hmmm…I thought ‘Vista’ was doing rather well (according to Microsoft):

        “But probably a better measure overall of the interest in Windows Vista has to do with the sales results. What has that awareness translated to? And the results have been fantastic. As of May, the last time we reported numbers to you, more than 40 million copies of Windows Vista have been sold around the world, by far a record for Microsoft paid-for software, and certainly outpacing XP due to the interest in Windows Vista, the pent-up demand, and certainly the largest PC market that exists today than the last time we did a major PC platform update?..
        It’s all true folks

        • #2608509

          Widows vista fails tests

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to another nail in the coffin for vista!!

          Last Updated: Tuesday, 6 February 2007, 11:42 GMT

          E-mail this to a friend Printable version

          Windows ‘fails’ active virus test

          Vista comes equipped with several different security tools
          Security tools that work with Windows Vista have failed tests to see if they can detect viruses circulating online.
          Microsoft’s Windows Live OneCare security tool was one of four products that failed independent tests carried out by the Virus Bulletin.

          The security testing group found that Live OneCare missed far more active viruses than any other program tested.

          To pass the tests anti-virus tools must spot and stop 100% of the malicious programs used to attack them.

          Attack profile

          When Vista was launched on 30 January, Microsoft chairman Bill Gates claimed that it was “dramatically more secure” than other operating systems.

          Work began on Vista in 2001 and prior to release Microsoft said that some of the delay was due to efforts to harden the operating system against viruses and other malicious programs.

          Vista cannot fend off today’s malware without help from security products

          John Hawes, Virus Bulletin

          Version 1.5 of Windows Live OneCare was co-launched with Vista and uses the same scanning “engine” as the security tools bundled with the operating system. Typically users pay a yearly subscription to use Live OneCare.

          The Virus Bulletin tests try to catch out anti-virus software with a variety of malicious programs including bots and worms known to be spreading online, file infectors, polymorphic and macro viruses.

          While Live OneCare did manage to spot 100% of the macro viruses it was tested against, it missed some wild viruses, polymorphic programs and file infectors.

          Live OneCare caught 99.91% of the known active viruses it was tested against. This left it vulnerable to 37 separate malicious programs.

          Other anti-virus products that failed the tests included G-Data AntiVirusKit, McAfee VirusScan Enterprise 8.51 and Norman Virus Control 5.90.

          In a statement, Joe Telafici, vice president of operations for McAfee Avert Labs, said Virus Bulletin had not been using the most up to date version of VirusScan Enterprise at the time of testing.

          “McAfee is currently working with Virus Bulletin on this discrepancy and to make the updated test results available,” he said.

          “The tests conducted in our secure labs were against the most significant viruses and worms affecting real-world users,” said John Hawes, a technical consultant at Virus Bulletin.

          “Although many improvements have been made, Vista cannot fend off today’s malware without help from security products,” he said.

          Jo Wickremasinghe, Windows Live OneCare product manager, said in a statement: “We are looking closely at the methodology and results of the test to ensure that Windows Live OneCare performs better in future tests and, most importantly, as part of our ongoing work to continually enhance Windows Live OneCare to ensure the highest level of protection and service that we can provide our customers.”

        • #2608507

          vista is a big headache

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Widows vista fails tests

          Net firms tackle Vista headache

          Some new PC owners have faced problems getting online
          Windows Vista is causing problems for some new PC owners hooking up their machine to a broadband connection.
          Some old installation discs that simplify the task of configuring a PC for broadband have refused to work on machines loaded with Vista.

          One reader was warned by Virgin Media that it would be “weeks” before its software worked with Vista.

          Other net service firms have also admitted that the appearance of Vista has caused some hiccups for users.

          Disc delays

          Microsoft launched the consumer versions of Windows Vista on 30 January and anyone buying a PC since that date is likely to have it installed on their brand new machine.

          Many are thought to have suffered the same problem as Swansea-based Rob Evans who found that he could not use his existing Virgin Media account with his new PC from Tesco.

          After ringing Virgin for help he was told that Vista support may not be forthcoming for some time.

          A spokesman for Virgin Media, formerly NTL/Telewest, admitted that its discs did not yet work with Vista but added that Mr Evans was now using his broadband service.

          “We can get people online without the installation disc,” he added. “It’s not that it does not work, it’s just the disc.”

          The spokesman said that other net service firms were also known to be taking time to get to grips with Vista.

          Microsoft launched Windows Vista to consumers in January
          “It’s such a big product that to train staff up on it fully and make sure all your services are tested and compliant takes time,” he said.

          A spokesman for BT said: “I think we are now supporting it though we did have some issues with it.”

          In particular, he said, Vista was conflicting with the Norton security software that BT sells with some of its broadband bundles.

          “That’s now been ironed out,” he added.

          The spokesman said BT had created a help page devoted to Vista to make it easier for people to get their PC connected.

          Net service firm Tiscali advises its users to back-up important data on their Vista PC before attempting to connect it to broadband.

          Andrew Ferguson, editor at Think Broadband, said: “I suspect Vista is going to break a lot of things as it makes some major changes to how things are done in Windows.”

          “Many places aren’t up to speed with Vista yet,” he said.

        • #2608504

          office printers are a health risk

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista is a big headache

          The humble office printer can damage lungs in much the same way as smoke particles from cigarettes, according to a team of Australian scientists.

          An investigation of a range of models showed that almost a third emit potentially dangerous levels of toner into the air.

          The Queensland University of Technology scientists have called on ministers to regulate these kinds of emissions.

          They say some printers should come with a health warning.

          The researchers carried out tests on more than 60 machines.

          Almost one-third were found to emit ultra-tiny particles of toner-like material, so small that they can infiltrate the lungs and cause a range of health problems from respiratory irritation to more chronic illnesses.

          Conducted in an open-plan office, the test revealed that particle levels increased five-fold during working hours, a rise blamed on printer use.

          The problem was worse when new cartridges were used and when graphics and images required higher quantities of toner.

          The researchers have called on governments to regulate air quality in offices.

          They also want companies to ensure that printers are based in well-ventilated areas so that particles disperse.

        • #2617223

          Faulty drivers bypass Vista?s kernel protection

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista is a big headache

          that both the ATi Catalyst driver and nVidia?s nTune software can be used to write arbitrary registry values without performing the proper checks and ?could be used as an attack vector to circumvent Vista kernel protection.? Rutkowska continued with, ?The whole problem in NVIDIA is that the driver doesn?t do the proper checks and can do a write for an arbitrary registry.?

          But the problem doesn?t end there. Further investigation discovered that the computer doesn?t even need the bad driver installed for it to be used as a method of attack. ?The attacker could just include it as part of their own rootkit and then use it to exploit Vista,? she said.

          Her point was that the driver could be posted on any website and used to build a rootkit and it would not be possible to claim that it was intentionally done because a $250 driver signing certificate was easy enough to get from a Microsoft partner site.

          All this implies that the user would first have to download the file in the first place from a third party and not directly from nVidia or ATi. The thought of someone doing that almost sickens me but I know people do it and I?d advise them not to do so. That doesn?t negate the fact that this problem exists but in order to fall victim to it, you yourself have to download an infected file.

          Besides, the Catalyst software and nVidia?s drivers are fairly resource heavy and on my systems, I have everything but the basic driver support disabled. It?s a good idea you do the same, for security?s sake and because it will improve your startup times.

        • #2617221

          vista in capable logo suit

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Faulty drivers bypass Vista?s kernel protection

          and in this case it has been accused of not accurately portraying computers through the use of the ?Vista Capable? logo program. This was supposed to tell consumers that a computer could run Vista but there is a dispute over which version of Vista it applied to.

          The company says the ?Vista capable? logo applied only to computers that would be running Vista Basic and that some manufacturers were installing Vista Premium which would obviously lead to system slow downs and sluggishness. Microsoft claims this is not its fault.

          In this logo program is also ?Vista Ready? aka ?Premium Ready? which describes faster systems that are capable of running all the advanced features of Vista without a problem though sadly confusion among these programs is not sitting well with consumers. Doesn?t common sense say that a $300 computer won?t run Vista well even if it is ?capable,? I think it does.

          A federal judge has ruled that the lawsuit against Microsoft and its ?Vista capable? logos will go forward. On Tuesday, U.S. District Court Judge Marsha Pechman denied to dismiss this suit on two grounds that Microsoft?s attorneys were attacking but a third issue was considered.

          Currently there are two plaintiffs listed in the case who are now seeking that it be raised to ?class action? status. In an email to Internetnews, Microsoft said, ??This is the first step in the process and we welcome the opportunity to put our case to the court in due course.?

          If the case is not settled, a tentative trial date has been set for October 28, 2008, US courts are nothing, if not slow.

        • #2618216

          common errors in vista as dvd hangs

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista in capable logo suit

          My dvd chucks Massive hangs again. In the interest of fairness I should mention that the Vista Kernel seemed to have no problem with my DVD (in fact it seemed to be reacting to everything without problems at all). It pretty much seemed Windows Explorer to be the one that caused all the problems. Why a crappy process like explorer that accepts arbitrary extensions is in control of all the key life-saver key combinations that can get you out of a hang like this, is beyond me, but there you go.

          Anyway, I finally extracted the file I needed from the DVD. How? Well, I put it in my older laptop, which it running now Kubuntu 7.04 (more about that in a follow up post), copied the file to my home directory and then copied it over the network (thang goodness for samba!). Not a very pleasant experience overall, and just adds to my already big distrust of how crappy Windows Explorer in Vista is.

      • #2617227

        windows kernel problems with cpu usage

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Well guys & gals just as predicted vista was going to be a dud

        Basically there are problems in these areas
        Thread priority and scheduling
        File-based symbolic links
        Canceling I/O operations
        While clock-based time accounting might be OK for diagnostic tools that report thread and process CPU usage, use of that method by the thread scheduler can cause unfair CPU allocation. By default, on client versions of Windows threads are permitted to run up to 2 clock ticks (6 if in the foreground). However, the thread might get virtually no time on the CPU or up to 6 ticks (18 if in the foreground), depending on its behavior and other activity on the system.
        unfairness that can occur when two threads that have the same priority become ready to run at the same time. Thread A runs until the next time-slice interval expiration when the scheduler assumes it has run for the entire interval and so decides that Thread A’s turn is finished. Furthermore, Thread A gets unfairly charged for the interrupt that occurred during its turn. At the next interval, the scheduler picks Thread B to take over and it runs for a full interval.
        the Windows Vista scheduler does not count interrupt execution against a thread’s turn. This means that on Windows Vista a thread will always get at least its turn on the CPU and never more than an extra clock interval of execution, resulting in greater fairness and more deterministic app behavior. Figure 2 shows how Windows Vista responds to the scenario shown in Figure 1 by giving both threads at least one time slice interval of execution.
        The various task keys specify how much preference threads associated with different multimedia types get for CPU and graphics processor resources (though graphics processor resource management is not implemented in Windows Vista
        A major difference in the way Windows resolves symbolic links and directory junctions is where the processing takes place. Windows processes symbolic links on the local system, even when they reference a location on a remote file server. Windows processes directory junctions that reference a remote file server on the server itself. Symbolic links on a server can therefore refer to locations that are only accessible from a client, like other client volumes, whereas directory junctions cannot. To address this, Windows Vista supports the new symbolic link type for both files and directories.

        Many file system commands have been updated to understand the implications of symbolic links. For example, the Delete command knows not to follow links, which would result in deletion of the target, but to delete the link instead. However, because not all applications may handle symbolic links correctly, creating a symbolic link requires the new Create Symbolic Link privilege that only administrators have by default.
        On Windows Vista, the I/O completion processing is performed not necessarily by the thread that issued the I/O, but instead by the one that is waiting for the completion port to wake it up. This relatively minor change avoids needless thread scheduling and context switches that can degrade the application’s and the system’s overall performance. To improve performance further, a server can retrieve the results of multiple I/O operations from a completion in one request, avoiding transitions to kernel mode.

        In Windows Vista most I/O operations can be canceled, including the open file I/O that Net View and Explorer use. Applications have to be updated to respond to end-user requests to cancel I/O, however, and many of the Windows Vista utilities that interact with devices that have timeouts have the necessary support. The file open and save dialogs that are used by virtually every Windows application, including third-party applications, for example, now enable their Cancel button while trying to display the contents of a folder. The Net command also cancels its synchronous I/O when you press Ctrl+C.

        You can see the benefits of I/O cancellation by opening a command prompt on Windows Vista and typing:

        net view \\nonexistentmachine

        The command will hang while Windows tries to contact the nonexistent system, but you can type Ctrl+C to terminate it. In Windows XP, Ctrl+C has no effect and the command doesn’t return until the network operation times out.

        Another type of I/O that has caused users problems in past versions of Windows are those that device drivers didn’t cancel properly because there was no easy way for them to know that they should. If you’ve ever terminated a process, but subsequently saw it lingering in process-viewing tools, then you’ve witnessed a device driver failing to respond to a process termination and canceling I/O issued by the process that hadn’t completed. Windows can’t perform final process cleanup until all the process’ I/O has either finished or been canceled. In Windows Vista, device drivers easily register for notification of process terminations and so most of the un-killable process problems are gone.
        I/O Priority

        While Windows has always supported prioritization of CPU usage, it hasn’t included the concept of I/O priority. Without I/O priority, background activities like search indexing, virus scanning, and disk defragmenting can severely impact the responsiveness of foreground operations. A user launching an app or opening a document while another process is performing disk I/O, for example, experiences delays as the foreground task waits for disk access. The same interference also affects the streaming playback of multimedia content like songs from a hard disk.

        Windows Vista introduces two new types of I/O prioritization in order to help make foreground I/O operations get preference: priority on individual I/O operations and I/O bandwidth reservations. The Windows Vista I/O system internally includes support for five I/O priorities as shown in / but only four of the priorities are used (future versions of Windows may support High).
        I/O has a default priority of Medium and the Memory Manager uses Critical when it wants to write dirty memory data out to disk under low memory situations to make room in RAM for other data and code. The Windows Task Scheduler sets the I/O priority for tasks that have the default task priority to Low, and the priority specified by applications written for Windows Vista that perform background processing is Very Low. All of the Windows Vista background operations, including Windows Defender scanning and desktop search indexing, use Very Low I/O priority

    • #2617136

      amongst a barrage of ltany of lies

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Want proof that Vista is Crap?: reader comment from Penguinisto
      Posted on: August 18, 2007, 10:51 AM PDT
      Story: A bump on the road to Windows Vista
      Then look no further than here:

      http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2171472,00.asp

      “Maybe it was something in the water? I’ve been a big
      proponent of the new OS over the past few months, even going
      so far as loading it onto most of my computers and spending
      hours tweaking and optimizing it. So why, nine months after
      launch, am I so frustrated? The litany of what doesn’t work and
      what still frustrates me stretches on endlessly.”

      …and on page two of the article (after a litany of Vista
      problems…)

      ” I could go on and on about the lack of drivers, the bizarre
      wake-up rituals, the strange and nonreproducible system quirks,
      and more. But I won’t bore you with the details. The upshot is
      that even after nine months, Vista just ain’t cutting it. I definitely
      gave Microsoft too much of a free pass on this operating system:
      I expected it to get the kinks worked out more quickly. Boy, was
      I fooled! If Microsoft can’t get Vista working, I might just do the
      unthinkable: I might move to Linux.

      well a lot of folks are just doing that

      • #2617135

        talk about vista deployment

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to amongst a barrage of ltany of lies

        hardly any has been deployed.
        A bump on the road to Windows Vista
        IT managers are saying “not so fast” as they move toward the OS, despite Microsoft’s optimism about quick adoption.
        By Ina Fried
        Staff Writer, CNET News.com

        Published: August 15, 2007, 12:01 PM PDT
        TalkBackE-mailPrint del.icio.us Digg this

        Businesses that had been thinking of a quick move to Windows Vista may be rethinking things a bit, according to a new study by Forrester Research.

        “IT managers are finding themselves pulling back their initial Windows Vista deployment plans,” Forrester analyst Benjamin Gray said in a report issued this week.

        High ImpactWhat’s new:
        Businesses are moving to Windows Vista less quickly than originally planned, in part because of application compatibility woes, hefty hardware requirements and a lack of clarity around when the first service pack will be issued.

        Bottom line:
        Though slower Vista adoption would be a strategic blow to Microsoft, the financial impact could be muted, so long as businesses and consumers keep buying new PCs and its volume license business remains strong.

        More stories on this topic

        That said, Forrester notes in the first line of its report that it’s not like most businesses are really going to skip over Vista.

        “For the vast majority of businesses, Windows Vista is a matter of when and how, not if,” Gray wrote. “This is thanks in large part to Microsoft’s dominance in the corporate client operating system market.”

        While Linux has made considerable inroads in the server world and Apple has been able to substantially boost its market share in the consumer market, the corporate desktop remains solidly in Microsoft’s domain.

        But Microsoft has made the case that not only will businesses adopt Vista, they will do so quite quickly.

        In September, Brad Goldberg, general manager for Windows Client product management, predicted that Vista would be put in use by twice as many businesses in the first year as Windows XP was in the 12 months following its October 2001 release.

        Research firm IDC said that Windows XP usage was at 10 percent after a year in release. But IDC analyst Al Gillen said in September, talking about Vista, that “for them to do 20 percent in the first 12 months of availability is almost impossible.”

        Though slower Vista adoption would be a strategic blow to Microsoft, the financial impact could be muted, so long as businesses and consumers keep buying new PCs and its volume license business remains strong.

        Forrester finds that many businesses are focused on issues like making sure they move to Vista before support runs out on older operating systems. Windows 2000 remains in the extended support phase until July 2010, while Windows XP remains in mainstream support through April 2009, and in extended support until 2014.

        “When it comes to Windows Vista, Microsoft’s biggest competitor isn’t Apple, Novell, Red Hat or Ubuntu (just to name a few)–it’s Microsoft itself,” Gray wrote. “Businesses have, for the most part, been running either Windows 2000 or Windows XP for the past four or five years. These (operating systems) are mature, thoroughly tested and have been proven ‘good enough,’ making the business case for Windows Vista even harder for a lot of companies.”

        Another area of concern for businesses is the lack of specificity around the first service pack for Windows Vista. Although Microsoft has been making the case–and Forrester concurs–that SP1 need not be a critical milestone, some businesses are awaiting that release before migrating their machines to Vista.

        Now on News.com
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        Week in review: AMD’s scramble, Google’s gamble

        Is the digital pen getting mightier?

        Extra: Space cadet school
        “Most of the IT managers we spoke with cited SP1 as the reason they have yet to seriously consider deploying Windows Vista into their respective companies,” Gray wrote. “Whether right or wrong, experience tells IT managers that the first service pack is Microsoft’s official blessing that the new OS is complete.”

        Microsoft has not said exactly when that release will be available. It did say, as part of an antitrust settlement court filing, that a beta version will be out this year, but it has not said when the final version will be issued.

        And, although Microsoft initially touted the ability of older programs to run smoothly on Vista as a strength of the new operating system, Gray notes that “application compatibility doesn’t look as good as we had hoped.”

        “We heard application compatibility success rates that ranged from as low as 60 percent to as high as 90 percent,” Gray wrote, noting that the figures have improved over time.

        Also, Gray said that many businesses are finding Vista is not a good bet for their older, but still-in-use PCs. “Hardware compatibility is hard to get around with PCs older than 12 to 18 months,” Gray wrote.

        • #2617134

          hardly any business would risk migrating to vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to talk about vista deployment

          What’s new:
          Businesses are moving to Windows Vista less quickly than originally planned, in part because of application compatibility woes, hefty hardware requirements and a lack of clarity around when the first service pack will be issued.
          & thats the truth

        • #2617133

          volume licencing is the only hope to get dough out of

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to hardly any business would risk migrating to vista

          vista.Bottom line:
          Though slower Vista adoption would be a strategic blow to Microsoft, the financial impact could be muted, so long as businesses and consumers keep buying new PCs and its volume license business remains strong.

        • #2617132

          next web generation

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to volume licencing is the only hope to get dough out of

          Gates sizes up the Web’s next generation
          Microsoft’s chairman says it’s time to embrace new Web trends, from programmable sites to ad-funded hosted services.
          Video: Rebirth of the cool
          Video: Gates keynote at Mix ’06
          By Martin LaMonica
          Staff Writer, CNET News.com

          Published: March 21, 2006, 7:10 AM PST
          See all Newsmakers
          TalkBackE-mailPrint del.icio.us Digg this

          newsmakers Think Web 2.0 and think Microsoft? Not necessarily.

          The company has long provided the tools for building Web sites. But it’s been a couple steps behind when it comes to some of the bigger ideas and business models that have surfaced around Web 2.0, such as advertising-based software.

          In addition, Microsoft has long made devices–whether it’s the PC, server or handheld–the center of computing design. Now Web sites are becoming programmable, allowing people to “mash up” data from different sites.

          To try to capture–and participate–in some of the buzz around Web 2.0, Microsoft organized a conference in Las Vegas called Mix ’06 aimed at Web developers and designers. After his keynote speech at the conference Monday, Microsoft chairman and chief software architect Bill Gates spoke to CNET News.com about the push into hosted services, competition with Google and mobile computing.

          Q: A lot of the buzz and thinking around Web 2.0 has come from outside Microsoft. Is this conference an attempt to get more involved there? And does that concern you at all?
          A: Gates: Well, for the key new technologies that enable us to take the browser to a new level–DHTML, JavaScript, XML capabilities–we’ve been the pioneer.

          If I’m a consumer or small-business owner, I could get a lot of applications in a hosted version, from project management to word processing. In that world of Web applications, how do you make Windows Vista a must-have?
          Gates: Well, Vista is probably more relevant now than ever because, as you’re browsing, you want to download Active X controls and have a security framework in there. Having the kind of “reputation” services we built into Vista makes the community value more important: We know which Web sites are phishing Web sites. We know which controls people have had a good experience with. That kind of reputational value may be one of the biggest things people get out of Vista.

          Video: Gates on
          Web 2.0
          In interview with CNET News.com, Bill Gates says Microsoft is ready to mix it up with rivals.
          Likewise, the ability to download code and compartmentalize it–that’s kind of a breakthrough that’s come out of the fact that we’re down the learning curve on security–way more than any other company–I can say 100 times as much. In the last three years, it’s been our biggest R&D priority, and we’ve made breakthroughs.

          Vista, in terms of rich media–people are doing movies more. People want to organize and find those things. They want to work offline as well as online. We picked the things where people want Windows to (work) better.

          People are designing applications with the Web in mind. In the past, you’ve been more Windows-centric with development tools. Will you be pointing developers to write applications where the Web is the development platform?
          Gates: The Web is where a lot of code is being written, and you can go back to the year 2000 and the .Net initiative. .Net was designed to let people do state-of-the-art Web sites. In fact, .Net’s success has been the primary platform for building Web sites. It’s been quite phenomenal.

          People are using other tools–around scripting, PHP and all that. But we’ve come in and really targeted that market. And as people do richer Web sites, we think the richness of what we’ve done there will go beyond the scripting-language-type approaches, which are fine. But more and more people will do sophisticated things. So there’s nothing dramatic here, in the sense that the Web just happened.

          The Web is evolving. There’s a little bit more maturity now, in terms of business models with advertising coming in, with some of the late-’90s mistakes understood. But we’re probably, as an industry, making some of those same mistakes. And that’s OK. The ferment, the creativity, is incredible to see.

          You’ve been talking about the Web as a development platform for years. Internally at Microsoft, have you made the switch?
          Gates: (Microsoft’s) first company meeting around software as a service goes back over seven years now. We said it’s a lot better for us and customers. Instead of viewing software as a one-time thing–you buy a new version, you’re using that–if we have a continuous relationship (with) something like Watson, where we monitor what people are doing and the drivers they are using, Office Online can get templates and download new things.

          It’s letting our software innovation be more connected to the user, more customized to what they want. It’s a great paradigm for us–to create new value. We did underestimate advertising, so an element of what we’re doing there is catch-up.

          There was a major demarcation when Ray (Ozzie) put out his memo last year, really saying the primary applications model will have everyone delivering through the Web, monitored through the Web, updating through the Web. And many of these services, like storage or authentication, that you think of as long as they work.

        • #2617131

          gates sizesup the opportunity

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to next web generation

          Active Directory or SharePoint on premise–we’ve got to get those out (so people can) simply connect up to them. We’re making great progress on that.

          That’s what makes this industry fun. Even Microsoft, with incredible research capabilities–the marketplace will come along and show us to put more into this and what is not paying off. We’ve got to be very dynamic. So far, throughout our history, our epitaph has been written 10 times, and so far, we’re still alive. It’s fun to see we’re going through another one of those cycles.

          And particularly, people think Google was born on this (Web application) paradigm, and (are wondering whether) any of the traditional software companies understand and can actually push this paradigm. Here at this conference, clearly, we’re saying we’ve got the best tools for this paradigm, and we want to know where we should take it.

          Last week, you said you’re going after IBM. As you look at the next generation of applications across the board, who do you think is your primary competitor? Is it IBM and its platform, or is it Google and its Web platform?
          Gates: When it comes to supplying enterprises and having that long-term relationship, we and IBM are hotly competitive in doing that.

          Video: Mix ’06: Gates keynote
          From the stage of Mix ’06, Bill Gates discusses building new online applications.
          In terms of thought leadership, if someone said who’s cool right now, obviously, Google would be high on the list there. Really, one thing they’ve done that’s been key to their success (is search). We have to provide a better search experience–and get people to think about search in terms of these tasks, these contexts. We think we have a lot to contribute there. Not many people are brave enough to compete with something with that kind of scale and momentum. Well, we are.

          Google bought a little company that does an online word processor, and there’s talk of it doing an online calendar. Do you think it could assemble a Web “office” and compete with what you have?
          Gates: I think they can do anything they want. Remember Orkut? That was a great social-networking thing that I don’t think has been heard of for the last few years. They came out with an instant-messaging voice-type product.

          Certainly, there will be lots of ways that people offer software over the Internet. There will be so many companies doing these things. It’s not really appropriate to look at just one.

          Not many people are brave enough to compete with (Google), with that kind of scale and momentum. Well, we are. The idea that there will be complementary capability, where using rich-client capability and Web capability–that’s a big theme from us. You can look through our history. We’ve been pretty rational as the fads roll through. Yes, there’s a lot to be said for that, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that you want–when not connected to the Internet–access to your information. You want richness and responsiveness that local applications can provide.

          There’s a lot of experimentation with business models. Are you concerned that some of the business models are not quite baked?
          Gates: Well, I think we’ll see the same types of things we always see, with lots of new companies and new ideas. Ninety percent will not be distinct enough or not have the right business model, and those will go away. And yet the 10 percent that emerge will show new and neat things. Take all the companies doing video today. If you asked me today which ones will be here five years from now, I couldn’t really say and yet–I love using them. I think what (they’ve) got there is neat and exciting.

          I do think some of the bigger players, like ourselves, Yahoo and Google, will be in that space, offering those capabilities as well. But there’s room for some great success story to come out of it. I think it’s a bit unclear, though, now how far it can go.

          What problems do you want Ray Ozzie thinking about, as one of your chief technical officers?
          Gates: He’s a phenomenonal person, in terms that he thinks like a developer and thinks like an end user. He’ll sit down and literally do story boards–if I want to do this scenario, how can I do very few screens to get to that?

          Everything he’s done in his career has been a leading-edge thing. He, more than anyone, is thinking: What is a “Live” application? How is it different from a classical application and, therefore, what services should Microsoft provide? He’s gathered a top group of Microsoft people, and he’s driving that idea of how to design a platform. But because he’s Ray, he’s keeping in mind those end-user things.

          We wanted to hire Ray for decades–literally. But the timeliness of his coming in and knowing he’s shaped his mind around what these new applications look

        • #2617130

          gates sizes up 2

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to gates sizesup the opportunity

          like is phenomenal for us. Having someone full-time thinking about that evolution is very, very important.

          From a business point of view, what do you think is the bigger opportunity? Is it selling the servers and tools, or is it the advertising?
          Gates: Well, advertising–nobody really knows what the limits to that are. There will be experimentation to having you watch ads while you’re doing anything on the computer, because people will see if they can’t make money that way.

          I think the thing that will jump out over time–when you’re in the context of buying, when you want to organize a trip, an event, pick a gift–will be tools far beyond search that help with that.

          There is debate that just doesn’t go away, between the Web services protocol stack called WS Start and the simpler approach of XML over HTTP. Do you think that you overengineered Web services?
          Gates: I feel super good that we did the hard work (with Web services) and made that an industry standard for rich interoperability. The lead times for that–figuring what standards body to put them in, the testing with IBM products and all those things–that is the one we really needed to put the energy into. Now we can circle back and say, “OK, let’s make sure that the tools for all that spectrum are very strong.”

          When do you think ultramobile devices will become mainstream devices–and even a PC replacement?
          Gates: Well, it is a PC, and for a lot of people, it will be their second PC. And I’m a total believer in the tablet–I think it will be totally mainstream. Whatever it takes, Microsoft will be behind it to make it better and better. If I’m critical of us, I’d say that making it easy to have multiple PCs (and having) your “state” just show up on those PCs–that’s been partly holding people back.

          The Origami–you want to take it to meetings with you, but you don’t want to think about syncing before you walk out to that meeting. (The information) should just be there.

          You were critical of the $100 laptop idea for developing countries that’s come out of the MIT Media Lab. Can you tell us what alternative approaches you’re pursuing?
          Gates: Anybody that is doing low-cost PCs–that’s great. We love low-cost PCs. I do think you do need to think about the cell phone. We’re doing some things to let it display on a TV-type screen. Because it’s got a network, because it’s got a business model, that will often be your first PC (equivalent, in a developing country).

          Or (there could be) a shared PC where you go to a community center and you want a large screen and multiple people can stand around it. The PC industry is very, very competitive, so all the varieties (are) going to get tried. I think countries should let their marketplace figure out where’s the training, where are the communications networks, where’s the content.

          It’s a very complex thing that probably doesn’t lend itself to a top-down approach, but everything that drives computing out to more people we are very, very enthusiastic about.

          But you seem to prefer a cell phone attached to a TV?
          Gates: No, I don’t prefer any–to be clear, I think there’s going to be a variety of form factors that relate to the different environments. After all, the communications cost is really the hardest thing here. We have PCs down at $200–and that’s fine. Some of those even have a battery in them. So you don’t miss out there–where you miss out is the broadband connection, the curriculum, the support–all the elements that can make it relevant.

          Because, after all, we don’t just want PCs out there. We want them out there connected and used and relevant so that they lead to more economic success. Certainly, between Microsoft and the (Bill and Melinda Gates) Foundation, I spend a lot of time in developing countries, looking at the realities. It’s very complex to make sure you get all those pieces lined up.

    • #2612034

      vista platform loses user appeal

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      GUI: Features: Ease of use: Value:

      Everytime I visit this site I read about a new bug of Vista: programs that run perfectly on XP fail on Vista, it needs a Huge amout of memory and HDD, and there’s nothing needfull in the new features. It’s just like Nero. They wanted to develep their software and it’s GUI getting more terrible with every version, and some feauteres worked before just not work. I will NOT get Vista until XP becomes totally unsupported and I recommend you to do the same. (Maybe if XP becomes unsupported I will switch from Windows to an other OS.)

      • #2612033

        user dislikes vista

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to vista platform loses user appeal

        You are obviously NOT talking about Microsoft here! Of cause Vista will have bugs! Just wait and see.

        You will hear very clearly and very loudly the bugs and annoyances Vista has.

        Vista looks better than XP. However, on performace, XP is a thoroughbred steed and Vista is an Ass.

        If you are talking performance, XP leaves Vista at the starting post.

        I find it remarkable how Microsoft can code such an inferior product.

        I would NOT use Vista even if Bill Gates gave it to me!

        Heck maybe in 5 years when computers are able to handle Vista with ease and XP is so dated, but certainly not now, not next year 2007 and likely not 2008.

        If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it! XP with SR2 works just fine. It took long enough for XP to be working properly. I am not going to gamble on Vista.

        Vista should have run FASTER on the same hardware as XP. That would have been a winner. However, Vista is a dud. A lemon. A show pony. It has all the false glamour of Windows ME (the bean counter operating system).

        Vista this and Vista that. At the end of the day there is NO good reason to leave XP! Not for the next few years anyway.

        • #2612032

          vista does sux

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to user dislikes vista

          GUI: Features: Ease of use: Value:

          What is faster than Vista, uses less RAM than Vista, is a smaller install than Vista, runs more software than Vista, runs more games than Vista, is able to do everything that Vista can do with a few 3rd party installations?

          Windows XP

          In every way, except eye candy, Windows XP is a superior operating system than Vista.

          You can run XP on hardware that would grind to a halt with Vista.

          That game you are getting 100 frames per second may only get 20 frames per second if you install Vista.

          There is no good reason to install Vista.

          Vista is the Windows ME of tomorrow.

          Bloated to the max, needing new hardware and for what?

          Not only did Microsoft drop the ball with Vista, they damn well blew it to shreds.

          Windows XP is far superior to Vista.

          Sure have a play with it for curiosity, but to play that game and use that software lightning fast, keep XP. Or spend a lot of money to get new hardware, and not notice a speed or performance increase at all.

          How Microsoft can code such an inferior operating system to XP and claim it is better is astounding. They must take the public for fools.

          Vista should be faster on XP type hardware – NOT slower if not unable to run at all.

          The people at the top at Microsoft have lost touch with reality in their money castles.

          Vista sucks.

        • #2612027

          vista is a huge let down

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista does sux

          In every way, except eye candy, Windows XP is a superior operating system than Vista.

          You can run XP on hardware that would grind to a halt with Vista.

          That game you are getting 100 frames per second may only get 20 frames per second if you install Vista.

          There is no good reason to install Vista.

          Vista is the Windows ME of tomorrow.

          Bloated to the max, needing new hardware and for what?

          Not only did Microsoft drop the ball with Vista, they damn well blew it to shreds.

          Windows XP is far superior to Vista.

          Sure have a play with it for curiosity, but to play that game and use that software lightning fast, keep XP. Or spend a lot of money to get new hardware, and not notice a speed or performance increase at all.

          How Microsoft can code such an inferior operating system to XP and claim it is better is astounding. They must take the public for fools.

          Vista should be faster on XP type hardware – NOT slower if not unable to run at all.

          The people at the top at Microsoft have lost touch with reality in their money castles.

          Vista sucks.

    • #2614941

      vista has fatal flaws

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      There’s a lot to like about Vista. But it has some fatal flaws:

      DRM limits what you can do with your software and media content (including music). Media lovers, beware!

      WGA and Product Activation, what a pain! This also includes MS spyware.

      $260 to upgrade to Ultimate? Are you kidding?!

      You don’t even get *all* of the much-vaunted security features unless you get the Ultimate edition!

      Fatal flaws make Vista abysmal. And let’s not forget, this is “Version 1.0” software with lots of bugs. MS is pushing Service Pack 1 out to us before the end of the year to fix what should have been fixed at release date (today)! This is nuts.

      • #2614937

        more vista fatal flaws

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to vista has fatal flaws

        ——————————————————————————–

        More fatal Windows Vista exploits
        Published February 6th, 2007 by Long Zheng
        Last week, the media went schizophrenic over the Windows Vista speech recognition ?loophole? which allowed anyone with a microphone to have full access over your computer. Granted, you must also be partially-deaf, turned your speaker volume to full, carefully place your microphone next to the speakers, turn on speech recognition and train your speech profile as if you were someone else. It might sound incredibly challenging to get this exploit working properly, but the media assures this exploit is a ?fatal flaw?, so obviously Microsoft is to blame and Vista gets a big red ?Fail? on security.

        This week, two top Swedish security experts only to be named ?Long? and ?Zheng?, to hide their identity from Microsoft, exposes many more ?fatal? security flaws inside the newborn operating system, Windows Vista. Here are the two most dangerous exploits you should be concerned about.

        The first exploit is a bug inside the keyboard and mouse subsystem which enables the targeted system to be hijacked and maliciously delete files, folders, music, torrents and other important sounding stuff without the user?s authorization or control.

        Details of how such an exploit works are sketchy, but leaked documents reveal the keyboard and mouse APIs offers unprecedented amount of control over an operating system, allowing anyone and everyone to have full access to your computer with or without your authorization. This exploit allows anyone ranging from younger siblings to gang leaders who could use brute force, such as a punch or tickle, to gain access to your keyboard and mouse cursors and perform malicious activities such as browsing The Inquirer or deleting vital fraudulent financial documents.

        A second exploit highlights a serious flaw inside the popular Windows-platform development tool, Visual Studio. An undocumented feature inside this software is said to enable the ability for malicious users to compile and execute unsigned and potentially damaging source code. If users somehow come across malicious source code and decide to copy, paste, compile and execute within Visual Studio, the resulting application could change wallpapers, block access to YouTube, increase the volume and other serious irreversible damages to the computer system.

        Nobody knows exactly how or why Microsoft has designed Visual Studio to include such a dangerous and exploitable feature, but several self-proclaimed security experts has voiced their anger to Microsoft for such questions actions. ?Putting lives at risk like cars on the road? says one expert, ?cheese sandwiches are really good, but this is horrible like a tomato sandwich? insists another – drawing a connection between operating systems and lunch snacks.

        Whilst both exploits are said to affect the entire industry of operating systems, ?Long? and ?Zheng? insists that only Windows is affected due to its massive user-base and pretty wallpapers. Both security experts warn if users do not switch to another operating system, Apple and the Free Software Foundation will be really upset.

        Microsoft officials gave me a weird look and did not wish to comment at the time of writing.

        Next week, keep an eye out for the exclusive report on why Solitaire is a fire hazard. How the end-game fireworks might burn down your operating system. Not to be missed by every innocent Solitaire player.

        ——————————————————————————–

        ——————————————————————————–

      • #2614929

        lost n found

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to vista has fatal flaws

        ——————————————————

        Vista screensaver inspired WMP visualizations, ?Psychedelia Visualization Pack?
        21 Comments Published August 31st, 2007 by Long Zheng
        Correct me if I?m wrong but I think it?s been at least two Windows releases since any new or updated Windows Media Player visualizations. Sure, what comes in the box are still visualizations by definition, but I couldn?t consider any of them eye-candy. Recently, a new visualization pack made by two Microsoft employees in their spare time is worth checking out.

        Stephen Coy, the designer of the Windows Vista screensavers and Tim Cowley, a software engineer on the Office team have come together to release a visualizations pack for Windows Media Player called ?Psychedelia? two years in the making. But don?t worry, no LSD drugs involved.

        As a requirement to run these visualizations, you will need a graphics card that supports at least shader model 2.0 (most DirectX 9 graphics cards will), which might seem like a high requirement for visualizers, but how else are you suppose to create visual magic right?

        Included in the single package are 7 visualizations with over 40 variations in total, including

        Album Art 3D – 3D cubes with the album art of the song you?re currently playing
        Bubbles – inspired by the Bubbles Vista screensavers also featuring the album art
        Distortion – distorts the album art in a 3D waveform
        Hypnobloom – hypnotic checkered purple rings
        Ribbons – inspired by the Mystify and Ribbons Vista screensavers (as seen above)
        Gigertron 3D – 3D layered visualizer bars
        up cuber – a pigment arrangement of 3D hexagon cubes
        I?ve never been a big fan of visualizers before but I?m hooked onto ?Ribbons?. If you?re looking for some awesome WMP visualizers or something to match your Vista screensavers, then give Psychedelia a try. It?s a reasonably light download at 5MB but best of all it?s free!

        Continue reading ?Vista screensaver inspired WMP visualizations, ?Psychedelia Visualization Pack??

        ——————————————————————————–

        My name is Windows Vista Service Pack 1
        4 Comments Published August 30th, 2007 by Long Zheng

        Surprise! Pop some balloons and whack some Pinatas because today is Windows Vista Service Pack 1?s coming-out party. The party started a little earlier than scheduled but nevertheless it is now in full force, and you?re all invited! Do you want to meet him? Know when he?s coming around to your place? And why is he so cool? Then check out the word who got in the party early.

        Nick White, Windows Vista Team Blog – Announcing Windows Vista Service Pack 1 Beta
        Brandon LeBlanc, Windows Vista Team Blog – Windows Vista Service Pack 1 Beta White Paper (unabridged audiobook coming soon)
        Mary Jo Foley – The shroud of secrecy is lifted: Vista SP1 beta due in two weeks
        Joe Wilcox – Yes, Virginia, There Is a Vista SP1
        Josh Philips – Windows Vista SP1 Beta ?In a few weeks?
        Service Pack 1 is currently scheduled to tour select users, MSDN/TechNet subscribers and the general public within the next few weeks, ?later?, and first-quarter 2008 respectively. I heard he?s quite the handyman.

        ——————————————————————————–

        Microsoft shuts down popular Windows patching package, AutoPatcher
        12 Comments Published August 29th, 2007 by Long Zheng
        Microsoft Legal defies logic today by forcibly removing a free and trustworthy software package which makes updating Windows more convenient and accessible.

        AutoPatcher, for those who don?t know, was an impressive Windows community project that combined publically available Windows hotfixes and security updates each month to form a single package that could either be installed in a batch or burned on to an CD. To those who regularly format their computers or fix other people?s computers (for which I share you pain), AutoPatcher not only saves bandwidth but precious time downloading each individual update from Windows Update.

        It is not hard to imagine AutoPatcher violated some clause in some terms of service somewhere, but why Microsoft would act on it, and act on it now is unbelievable. If AutoPatcher could be as ?malicious? as Microsoft suggests, then why haven?t they acted on it sooner?

        AutoPatcher has been an extremely active project since 2003, distributed somewhat 40,000 copies monthly over just the official download mirrors, not counting other popular sources such as Bittorent and even leading PC magazines worldwide. I might even go as far as to say some people depend on it.

        The Microsoft official quoted on Neowin argues because Windows Update is more accessible now in other browsers like Firefox, AutoPatcher is more of a security concern. Did they forget AutoPatcher patches Windows? And what about those users who don?t have a fast-speed internet connection? Or maybe even no internet connection at all? Should those people visit the library each week to just keep their Windows up-to-date?

        Reasoning aside, AutoPatcher could well sidestep the legal roadblock by a simple but unproductive workaround. Microsoft argues updates should only be downloaded from the official Microsoft servers to prevent third-party modification, therefore AutoPatcher could instead of pre-bundling the updates, just fetch the updates from Microsoft?s own servers (HTTP downloads) to form a similar package on the user?s own computers at runtime. Might take a bit longer, but you can end up with the same package. As far as I know, you?re still allowed to archive Windows updates, thankfully.

        As Microsoft continues to play down the importance of service packs in favor of Windows Update, the ability to collate and backup updates will be come more useful than ever. For that reason, I hope AutoPatcher, or a new project, will solve the problem without attracting the hounds.

        ———————-

        • #2620443

          well one user agrees!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to lost n found

          I heard lots of rumor from various poeple at different IT company’s comparing Vista to Windows ME and indicating that Vista is largely being ignored in the business community. Alot of businesses I deal are buying Vista but then down grading to Windows XP.

          My own experience has seen laptops with a T7200, 2GB of RAM and X1660 chipset run like a slug and a laptop with T5500 chipset with 512 MB of RAM almost unworkable becuase it is so slow.

          Even desktop computers with Core 2 duo chipset and 1 GB of RAM do not come close to meeting my performance expectations when running simple applications like word 2007.

          I still have consistent problems with drivers on older and some newer equiptment espcially printers and scanners. I’ve normally resorted to Windows 98 drivers becuase they work more effectively than the VISTA drivers.

          Does anyone else get the impression that Vista is one big bug and next year its probably going to be swept under the carpet with a replacement? I do know that some IT companies are putting an offical complaint to Microsoft about the OS.

        • #2620441

          big code

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well one user agrees!

          Big Code

          ——————————————————————————–

          ——————————————————————————–

          ——————————————————————————–
          By Jack Ganssle
          Embedded.com
          (10/05/05, 02:28:00 PM EDT)
          Pundits (and many other sources) predict Microsoft’s Vista (ne頌onghorn) operating system will comprise at least 50 million lines of code? assuming the troubled OS is ever released.

          50 million lines of code. The scale is staggering.

          Expect a staggering number of bugs.

          Though it?s easy to poke fun at Microsoft, I?m impressed with the company?s recent performance. Windows XP is, at least for me, a very stable product. The much reviled update service seems to be working; reports surprisingly suggest Internet Explorer has fewer security vulnerabilities in recent months than Firefox.

          But any 50 MLOC program is a monster. How will they test it?

          Well-written C and C++ code contains some 5 to 10 errors per 100 LOC after a clean compile, but before inspection and testing. At a 5% rate any 50 MLOC program will start off with some 2.5 million bugs.

          Testing typically exercises only half the code. It?s hard to devise tests that check rarely-invoked exception handlers, deeply nested IFs and nested loops. So the 50% test coverage number suggests Vista could ship with some 1.25 million bugs.

          There are better ways to do testing that do produce fantastic programs. Code coverage, for instance, can insure every branch and conditional has been taken. It?s required by the FAA?s DO-178B level A standard for safety-critical avionics.

          But the costs are unbelievable. It?s not unusual for the qualification process to produce a half page of documentation for each line of code. A 50 MLOC program?s doc might be 25 million pages long, consuming 50,000 reams of paper – a stack 2 miles high. Will Vista undergo this rigorous evaluation? Probably not.

          Maybe Microsoft routinely uses a very disciplined approach to software engineering, including the mandatory use of code inspections. Again, the numbers are interesting. Since good inspections typically find 70% of the system?s mistakes, after inspection Vista might have 50 million * 0.05 bugs/LOC *0.30 defects left after inspection, or 750,000 bugs. If testing finds half of those, they?re still shipping with some 375,000 problems.

          Bummer.

          What if Microsoft were certified to the highest level of the Capability Maturity Model? Level 5 organizations employ a wide range of practices to generate great software. A CMM5 project typically ships with 1 bug per thousand lines of code. For Vista that works out to 50,000 bugs.

          This isn?t an anti-Microsoft rant. It?s a peek inside the problems any organization has when building huge programs. Though we do indeed have ways to build better code, the costs are huge, and scale exponentially as the program size increases.

          The largest commercial embedded systems I?m aware of are some cell phones which have around 5 million lines of code, generally a mix of C, C++ and Java. Though few if any of these companies work at CMM level 5, that 0.1% bug rate would yield 5,000 defects, a hopelessly buggy product. One can only hope that the most important features (like making a phone call) work well enough for most users most of the time.

          Firmware size doubles every 10 months to two years, depending on which surveys one believes. Programs are gigantic today, and will be simply unbelievable tomorrow.

        • #2620440

          re vista big code

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to big code

          Microsoft is coding an ever increasing percentage of their O/S’s in higher level languages with features like array bounds checking and automatic memory reclamation, which trap or eliminate certain classes of bugs.

        • #2620439

          marks blog confirms i’m right speed drop is 15%!!!

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to re vista big code

          Mark’s Blog
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          Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          A few weeks ago a poster with the handle dloneranger reported in the 2CPU forums that he experienced reduced network throughput on his Vista system when he played audio or video. Other posters chimed in with similar results, and in the last week attention has been drawn to the behavior by other sites, including Slashdot and Zdnet blogger Adrian Kingsley-Hughes.

          Many people have correctly surmised that the degradation in network performance during multimedia playback is directly connected with mechanisms employed by the Multimedia Class Scheduler Service (MMCSS), a feature new to Windows Vista that I covered in my three-part TechNet Magazine article series on Windows Vista kernel changes. Multimedia playback requires a constant rate of media streaming, and playback will glitch or sputter if its requirements aren?t met. The MMCSS service runs in the generic service hosting process Svchost.exe, where it automatically prioritizes the playback of video and audio in order to prevent other tasks from interfering with the CPU usage of the playback software:
          When a multimedia application begins playback, the multimedia APIs it uses call the MMCSS service to boost the priority of the playback thread into the realtime range, which covers priorities 16-31, for up to 8ms of every 10ms interval of the time, depending on how much CPU the playback thread requires. Because other threads run at priorities in the dynamic priority range below 15, even very CPU intensive applications won?t interfere with the playback.

          You can see the boost by playing an audio or video clip in Windows Media Player (WMP), running the Reliability and Performance Monitor (Start->Run->Perfmon), selecting the Performance Monitor item, and adding the Priority Current value for all the Wmplayer threads in the Thread object. Set the graph scale to 31 (the highest priority value on Windows) and you?ll easily spot the boosted thread, shown here running at priority 21:

          Besides activity by other threads, media playback can also be affected by network activity. When a network packet arrives at system, it triggers a CPU interrupt, which causes the device driver for the device at which the packet arrived to execute an Interrupt Service Routine (ISR). Other device interrupts are blocked while ISRs run, so ISRs typically do some device book-keeping and then perform the more lengthy transfer of data to or from their device in a Deferred Procedure Call (DPC) that runs with device interrupts enabled. While DPCs execute with interrupts enabled, they take precedence over all thread execution, regardless of priority, on the processor on which they run, and can therefore impede media playback threads.

          Network DPC receive processing is among the most expensive, because it includes handing packets to the TCP/IP driver, which can result in lengthy computation. The TCP/IP driver verifies each packet, determines the packet?s protocol, updates the connection state, finds the receiving application, and copies the received data into the application?s buffers. This Process Explorer screenshot shows how CPU usage for DPCs rose dramatically when I copied a large file from another system:

          Tests of MMCSS during Vista development showed that, even with thread-priority boosting, heavy network traffic can cause enough long-running DPCs to prevent playback threads from keeping up with their media streaming requirements, resulting in glitching. MMCSS? glitch-resistant mechanisms were therefore extended to include throttling of network activity. It does so by issuing a command to the NDIS device driver, which is the driver that gives packets received by network adapter drivers to the TCP/IP driver, that causes NDIS to ?indicate?, or pass along, at most 10 packets per millisecond (10,000 packets per second).

          Because the standard Ethernet frame size is about 1500 bytes, a limit of 10,000 packets per second equals a maximum throughput of roughly 15MB/s. 100Mb networks can handle at most 12MB/s, so if your system is on a 100Mb network, you typically won?t see any slowdown. However, if you have a 1Gb network infrastructure and both the sending system and your Vista receiving system have 1Gb network adapters, you?ll see throughput drop to roughly 15%.

          Further, there?s an unfortunate bug in the NDIS throttling code that magnifies throttling if you have multiple NICs. If you have a system with both wireless and wired adapters, for instance, NDIS will process at most 8000 packets per second, and with three adapters it will process a maximum of 6000 packets per second. 6000 packets per second equals 9MB/s, a limit that?s visible even on 100Mb networks.

          I caused throttling to be visible on my laptop, which has three adapters, by copying a large file to it from another system and then starting WMP and playing a song. The Task Manager screenshot below shows how the copy achieves a throughput of about 20%, but drops to around 6% on my 1Gb network after I start playing a song:

          You can monitor the number of receive packets NDIS processes by adding the ?packets received per second? counter in the Network object to the Performance Monitor view. Below, you can see the packet receive rate change as I ran the experiment. The number of packets NDIS processed didn?t realize the theoretical throttling maximum of 6,000, probably due to handshaking with the remote system.

          Despite even this level of throttling, Internet traffic, even on the best broadband connection, won?t be affected. That?s because the multiplicity of intermediate connections between your system and another one on the Internet fragments packets and slows down packet travel, and therefore reduces the rate at which systems transfer data.

          The throttling rate Vista uses was derived from experiments that reliably achieved glitch-resistant playback on systems with one CPU on 100Mb networks with high packet receive rates. The hard-coded limit was short-sighted with respect to today?s systems that have faster CPUs, multiple cores and Gigabit networks, and in addition to fixing the bug that affects throttling on multi-adapter systems, the networking team is actively working with the MMCSS team on a fix that allows for not so dramatically penalizing network traffic, while still delivering a glitch-resistant experience.

          Stay tuned to my blog for more information.

          Published Monday, August 27, 2007 8:00 AM by markrussinovich

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          Comments
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Great article Mark, thank you for giving a clear explanation of the problem.

          Monday, August 27, 2007 2:32 PM by Tom
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          is it the reason that explain why my games are A LOT less performant with windows Vista? does playing audio in games and having Teamspeak (or ventrilo at the same time) reduce the graphic and procesor output for my games because audio is at higher priority (especially in MMORPG where the network is important)?

          is there a way to put this value back to normal?

          thanks

          Monday, August 27, 2007 4:56 PM by Serge Munger
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback
          Running XP I just tried playing an MP3 file, a video file and downloading several files from the internet all at the same time. The audio and video files played perfectly and there was no slowdown in my network speed.

          “mechanisms employed by the Multimedia Class Scheduler Service (MMCSS), a feature new to Windows Vista”

          Seems to me Microsoft tried to “fix” something that wasn’t broken.

          Monday, August 27, 2007 5:28 PM by Richard McBeef
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Very useful to know. I’ve spent a good bit of time trying to figure out why my file transfers were so slow. During all of that debugging, I probably had a music file running in the background…

          Serge: Games performance is probably more related to video driver issues. My understanding is that the new Vista video driver model is theoretically just as fast as the XP video driver model, but it requires a lot of stuff to be re-written by the driver developers for best performance. Until it all gets re-written, they’re using pieces from the XP driver (changing Vista’s input to what the XP driver expects, then changing the XP driver’s output to what Vista expects), and the result is that some tasks are done less efficiently.

          On my laptop, I could hardly get any video files to play without glitching. CPU usage would go up to 100% and stay there, even though the media file played just fine with only 20% CPU usage on XP. Then by accident I was running another program that was incompatible with Aero and forced Vista to switch into the XP-style video mode. Suddenly my video started playing back smoothly at 20% video usage, just like XP.

          Monday, August 27, 2007 5:37 PM by Doug
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Serge,

          I don’t own Vista yet, but the first thing I thought of when I started reading this post was “games”. Good question…

          Monday, August 27, 2007 5:42 PM by Matt
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Mark,

          A sincere thank you for explaining the issue in detail and not ?suger coating? it?you might renew my faith in Microsoft.

          Monday, August 27, 2007 6:47 PM by Anonymous
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Running XP I just tried playing an MP3 file, a video file and downloading several files from the internet all at the same time. The audio and video files played perfectly and there was no slowdown in my network speed.

          Monday, August 27, 2007 5:28 PM by Richard McBeef

          *****

          It won’t effect your internet speed; just your LAN speed.

          Monday, August 27, 2007 7:07 PM by Dr.Butt
          # Solution found
          my first thought was to disable the MMCS service, but the Windows Audio service is dependent on it.

          So I ran regedit, and changed the key

          HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Audiosrv\DependOnService

          Just remove MMCS from that key in the list, and set MMCS to disabled in services, then reboot.

          As soon as I rebooted I was able to copy files at 40mb/s+ while listening to audio

          -Courtney

          Monday, August 27, 2007 7:25 PM by Courtney
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Why is XP not having this problem then? This seems like unnecessary feature of Vista.

          I’ve spent countless hours for couple months trying to figure out why copying files over network was going at 5MB/s

          Monday, August 27, 2007 7:27 PM by Andrew
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          It seems to me that Vista has things backwards here. Rather than ensuring that music playback can be performed within its realtime constraints, and having programmable facilities within the kernel to ask for that, it’s arbitrarily degrading other bits of the system “just in case” they might interfere. The dependency is incorrect. It ought to be the scheduler making these kinds of decisions – not the sound subsystem.

          It smells more like a nasty hack – as if last-minute testing showed that there were glitches in playback with the latest kernel, so quick fixes needed to be bludgeoned in.

          Monday, August 27, 2007 7:35 PM by barrkel
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          “While DPCs execute with interrupts enabled, they take precedence over all thread execution, regardless of priority, on the processor on which they run”

          Am I reading this correct: The DPCs can all run on core #1 and multimedia can run on the other cores? -> no interruption of multimedia?

          Monday, August 27, 2007 8:57 PM by zzz
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Serge: No, the MCSS service is only used by multimedia applications like WMP (actually that’s probably all that uses it ATM).

          You can revert to old behavior by right clicking My Computer, clicking Manage, finding the Services entry on the left pane and finding the MCSS service mentioned and stopping it. To make this setting permanent, you have to go into properties and set the startup type to Disabled. However it will not make your games run any faster. (Hmm, Courtney notes it’s dependent on the Windows Audio user-mode stack and offers a workaround… I didn’t know that. Thanks Courtney!)

          Games are slower overall because of all the added functionality and features in Vista… even with many services, eyecandy, and programs disabled I still find programs run better in XP (and even better in Linux!). For example, BioShock runs horribly on my computer in Vista with input and audio lag making it unplayable. This didn’t surprise me too much as my computer didn’t meet the minimum specs in the CPU department. But, in XP, it ran quite acceptably. I was even able to up the details settings without performance degradation.

          I would recommend gamers to stick to Windows XP for the time being, unless you have a DirectX 10 video card and plan on playing DirectX 10 games (and you really, REALLY need DirectX 10 for some reason). Also note that DirectX 10 cards will not be able to take advantage of new DirectX 10.1 features in Vista SP!. You’d need a new card for those.

          Richard: As noted in the article, you have to have quite high bandwidth (over 100mbits/s) to be able to notice any slowdown. Also there was something broken they fixed… audio stuttering or jittering in WMP and other media applications. Now if they only did the same thing for games I might switch over to Vista permanently.

          Doug: Unless you’re speaking of LAN transfers on a 1gbps network, I doubt that was your problem.

          I have noticed problems when running on an IPv4 network. IPv6 drivers are enabled by default for every network adapter, meaning every time you try to connect to a remote computer/website, Vista tries using IPv6 first. If your network doesn’t support it, this only results in wasted time. You can disable this protocol by finding the moved “Network Connections” folder (go to Network Control Panel and click on whatever side entry relates to showing network adapters) and then right clicking Properties on desired adapters and unchecking the IPv6 protocol entries.

          Andrew: XP can have this problem if enough apps are suching up the CPU. Some multimedia apps, like Winamp, solve the problem themselves by boosting their own priority (Winamp runs at High by default) but this can be dangerous if done to High or above because the application is not stable because then it may freeze the entire system (fortunately Winamp is stable. I’ve never had problems in that area).

          Whenever I have an application which is running a tad pokey, especially games, I boost it to Above Normal using Process Explorer or Task Manager (cmon Mark, fix Procexp so it can replace Taskmgr when UAC is enabled). This works with most programs (a few games go wonky though).

          barrkel: I think all programmers do this, It’s called implementing the required and requested features with the least amount of work. We’re a lazy people. 😉

          zzz: I’m guessing you could minimize DPCs and interrupts on one core by putting only threads essential to music playback there, but most likely this would make the core underutilized. And just like with memory, you don’t want to leave it unused because you just end up wasting time which you could be saving by filling it with work.

          Monday, August 27, 2007 10:13 PM by Dan
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          An excellent explanation Mark.

          Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but you mention it limits to 10,000 packets. Wouldn’t the obvious solution be to increase this number (or make it configurable). Obviously if you make it too high, your songs can skip. If you have a multi-core CPU (as most will be in the next few years), then it would seem to me to be unnecessary. Perhaps Windows could detect whether this optimisation is really helpful.

          Monday, August 27, 2007 11:09 PM by Adam
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Great post Mark!

          Vinicius Canto

          MVP Windows Server – Admin Frameworks

          Brazil

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:13 AM by Vinicius Canto [MVP]
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          “I have noticed problems when running on an IPv4 network. IPv6 drivers are enabled by default for every network adapter, meaning every time you try to connect to a remote computer/website, Vista tries using IPv6 first. If your network doesn’t support it, this only results in wasted time.”

          Actually, the time wasted should be very little. Unless the hostname has an AAAA record associated with it, the system shouldn’t use IPv6 to try and communicate with the host.

          The only time it becomes a major delay, is when the remote host supports IPv6, and either the local or remote host isn’t properly configured for IPv6. Then, it has to time out, then switches to IPv4.

          IIRC, Teredo is on by default in Vista, which means (provided the teredo relay isn’t down and firewall isn’t blocking) you have functioning IPv6 on your end enough to be useful.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:21 AM by Brie Bruns
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Windows Vista does allow a fine grained control of priority boost, you just need to find where to look for it instead of disabling the service (MMCSS).

          http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms684247.aspx

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:56 AM by Tanveer Badar
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Please elaborate on why this kludge is required in Vista, when XP degrades gracefully in both the Single CPU+High Network Load+Multimedia case, and the insufficient resources to process multimedia properly case.

          See: http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/99609816/m/910004196831?r=628001007831#628001007831

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:08 AM by F16PilotJumper
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Why do Vista need seuch a system ?

          Ever an old Win2K, on un PIII 1Ghz, with 512Mb can play an audio file without glitchs during network transfert.

          Today, with have “big” CPU, and Vista cannot play audio file smoothly during network transfert ? Such a shame …

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:09 AM by Bill2
          # re: Solution
          I wrote up the details on my fix on my blog

          http://courtneymalone.com/2007/08/28/a-note-on-vista-network-speed/

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 3:54 AM by Courtney Malone
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Regarding multiple network cards. If I disable the other network cards will the performance go up (you said 3 cards 1/3 network performance?)

          also whats up with this key?

          HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\Currentversion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\SystemResponsiveness

          seems this is an easy registry edit to allocate less cpu time for MMCSS

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:00 AM by Julian W
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          I developed lots of audio drivers for the older Microsoft OSes, and interestingly, had to use the DPC to process audio mixing and such so that it wouldn’t glitch on systems with lots of thread activity. The trick to avoid using all the CPU cycles for audio was to keep track of how much time was being spent in the DPC vs. the scheduled threads.

          In Vista, trying to “guess” how much of the CPU is being used for MM operations is unrealistic, since it spans the domain from 128kb MP3 playback to DRM’ed HD audio/video playback.

          The MMCSS algorithm defaults to 8ms for MM threads and 2ms for the other threads, but the flaw in the algorithm is that the IRPT and DPC times are not subtracted from the wall-clock times.

          Suppose that a really busy network transfer used up 50% of the cpu in the DPC routines. MMCSS should then see that only 4ms is available for mm out of the 8ms maximum. The audio stack must do it’s part, then, by letting the MMCSS know if that 4ms was enough to process 10ms of output. For simple audio, it may need only 1ms to generate 10ms of audio output. OTOH, it may need more than 4ms to insure no glitching, and THAT is the point that the network should be throttled back.

          I think Vista gives most of the info needed to do this right — the new kernel thread time accounting now subtracts DPC (and probably IRPT) from the thread’s scheduling quantum. The audio stack “pulls” output from the hardware back through the various drivers, which should allow determination of how well the computational load is being handled.

          Looks like SP1 is needed now more than ever! Tell Balmer to forget the market-timing issues and just get a Vista SP out in the field. I’m even thinking seriously about ripping Vista off my new laptop and desktop if SP1 is not going to appear in the near future.

          Thanks for your as usual well-stated description of the problem!

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:05 AM by Jerry Schneider
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Mark,

          I’ve been following your insights for years. Once again, thank you for the excellent explanation. We have 2 users on the network who use Vista and have complained w/network issues.

          Once again Mark, thanks for the years and all the great utilities.

          PS: I use XP but have tried Vista. After spending over 15 hours of learning and tweaking, I finally gave up and uninstalled it. After 3 weeks of hard disk thrashing (I continually fought w/Vista services which “magically” reset to default thrash mode), it became futile. You may want to pass up the chain, it is for these reasons Vista will not be quickly adopted.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:26 AM by Steve
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          All good and nice, but :

          1. It seems that people have this problem even AFTER they disabled MMCSS.

          2. The performance impact is way bigger (from 500..1000 mbps to sub-100mpbs or even lower. This is by no means a minor impact.

          3. As other pointed out,it seems like a classic problem of “Shoot yourself in the foot” because previous versions of windows do not have this issue nor audio playback smoothness problems.

          4. If you really want to help maybe you should take a look on the original forum page (http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?t=83112) and see that the impact reported by other users and what you explain here does not quite add up.

          5. As a personal note : with today’s computing power this kind of problem on dual/quad core machines is ….well I don’t know if I should say “funny” or “pathetic” 🙂

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:44 AM by Gigel
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          “100Mb networks can handle at most 12MB/s, so if your system is on a 100Mb network, you typically won?t see any slowdown”.

          I think you need to learn a bit about networking. Not every frame is full. At half full, the limited number of frames is reached at 7.5MB/s, well within a 100Mb networks ability.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:02 AM by c3
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          This whole thing reeks of shoddy hack.

          Seriously, who’s idea was this? Have they been taken out and shot yet?

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:04 AM by Jimbo
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          sell out. you where all about discovering and fixing bugs/glitches, or even malware. now you are part of the MS propaganda. this kind of problem shows how flawed windows vista is. davinci would have torn the whole thing apart and started again.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:06 AM by tomthebomb
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Does this take into account jumbo frames if you’re using a gigabit network? If your frame size is, say, 9000 bytes, at 10000 packets/sec and 8bits/packet, that’s 720Mbit (theoretical) throughput. That’s still less than 100% but it’s not horrible…

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:09 AM by steveo
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          This doesnt make any sense design wise.

          Why does every OS so far, even WinXP and every *NIX OS doesnt have any trouble handling multimedia + network ?

          Furthermore pc hardware get faster over time not slower – the thinking behind this design implies that hardware gets slower because previously in other OS it worked fine.

          Once again, braindead developers at M$ which doesnt surprise me at all

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:09 AM by Mr. Obvious
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          So a non-privileged userland application is able to modify global kernel parameters?

          Sounds like a good idea to me.

          Any other bits of the kernel I can mess with from a non-priv account?

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:26 AM by Dave
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Why have to guess a good value for max packets/sec while playing audio? Why not have some intelligent monitoring to find if audio playback thread is starving for cpu? Like check for empty buffers? Profile normal playback cpu needs, and make sure it receives that?

          vajk

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:30 AM by Vajk
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          What I find most discouraging about this isn’t the hack to workaround what was probably a non-issue, but the fact that copying a file takes 41% of the CPU. What kind of networking stack has that kind of processor overhead?

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:41 AM by Rob
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          To me, this seems like overly optimistic resource allocation…

          I agree 100% that it needed to happen, (and I’m greatful for Mark’s detailed response/ explanation) however, it seems to be at so much overhead that it degrades other services…

          Given the multi-core CPU scenario we live in now, is this optimization even so necessary?

          I remember trying to set up MS ISA 2 years ago on a SMP server (in a hurry) and got very poor performance due to “CPU’s fighting over controlling the NIC’s” – (I realize that now that you can pin a NIC to a particular CPU)… Is this similar?

          Is there any way to pin or isolate these competing processes such that we are not stuck with such low limits to utilization?

          thanks again for a great explanation Mark.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:46 AM by Chris
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          What I think a few posters are missing is the fact that this has nothing to do with overall CPU speed. Overall, CPUs are fast and getting faster. This has to do with priority over the course of milliseconds.

          Both networking and media playback require instant results – because TCP/IP gets processed when it’s received, and because most audio is sampled at over 40 kHZ. On a 2 GHz machine, that means that it’s playing something every 22 microseconds (about once every 45,350 processor cycles, and it takes a few cycles to play something). If it delays too long, or drops a few samples, you hear skipping.

          As a result, the concern is that if both network functions and multimedia need the CPU *right now* then you have a collision. That’s why MS limited the networking so it only comes in on average once every 100 microseconds, to prevent that.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:54 AM by Zachary Pruckowski
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          One addition: Microsoft completely rewrote the TCP/IP stack for Vista, and doing so they surely made some… hm, mistakes. This might be another reason of strange behavior.

          See http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/columns/cableguy/cg0905.mspx and lots of other pages.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:05 AM by K
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Actually, multimedia glitching is a pretty well-known problem to heavy audio and video users (i.e. multitrack work, editing, not just playback). A whole alternate universe of drivers has sprung up to deal with this. It’s much less of a problem than it used to be, but under heavy loads, it’s still an issue.

          Sounds like Microsoft tried to be over-proactive about it, and (as others have said) shot themselves in the foot. I wonder if this isn’t something that went into Vista back in 2001 as an obvious necessity, and then wasn’t looked at toward the end of the release cycle…

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:07 AM by Jay Levitt
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Responding specifically to Chris, my understanding is that Vista can’t do the kind of things you talk about (segregate functions by processor) even if it would be an effective solution, because they simply can’t target dual-core machines yet.

          There’s a significant adoption lag that Microsoft has to adapt to. Let’s briefly look at the gaming world for an example, and then come back to this. Currently, game designers/programmers for many games have to make sure the game can run on computers are far back as pre-HT P4s. Therefore, they can’t fully optimize for a two-core world across the line yet.

          The same situation occurs with Vista. Given the average age of the PC install base, and Vista’s minimum CPU requirements (800 MHz single core), they can’t optimize for dual-core in that sort of a manner. Also, remember that Vista was designed in a period from 2001-2006. Dual-cores only became available in mid-2005, and weren’t really prevalent in most selling models until mid-2006 (release of Conroe in July, and subsequent price war). The Vista RTM was shortly thereafter.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:09 AM by Zachary Pruckowski
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Something as essential as music playback and file copying should not require days of investigation by users. Someone write better docs!

          PS – I have a *phone* running a 200 MHz ARM with a piddly little OS and am able to play streaming MP3’s on a broadband wireless network with no hassles. And a dual-core, 2 GHz desktop uses 41% CPU to simply copy files???

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:20 AM by s t
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Something as essential as music playback and file copying should not require days of investigation by users. Someone write better docs!

          PS – I have a *phone* running a 200 MHz ARM with a piddly little OS and am able to play streaming MP3’s on a broadband wireless network with no hassles. And a dual-core, 2 GHz desktop uses 41% CPU to simply copy files???

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:21 AM by s t
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          I did some playing on my XP system and got similar results as Richard. I transfered a copy of Win2KSP4 while I listened to a podcast I have downloaded on my local system. I did not see any decay in the file transfer speed over the LAN. I do not consider Mark a sellout because he reported on this issue. He identified it, he did not condone it. IMHO, this seems like a misplaced performance tweak on MS part. I hope it goes away in SP1. We still have not moved to Vista, I have intentionally ordered new systems with XP. It works and I am not willing to turn my shop into a test bed for a first release of an OS.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:28 AM by Guy
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Hi, I am the IPv6 Program Manager at Microsoft.

          Regarding the comment “Unless the hostname has an AAAA record associated with it, the system shouldn’t use IPv6 to try and communicate with the host.”

          Even if the destination has an A and an AAAA record, Vista will prefer IPv4 over Teredo. The order of precedence is IPv6, IPv4, THEN Teredo. So a destination host with an A and AAAA record will always be reached using IPv4, NOT TEREDO.

          The only time Teredo would be used is if the destination host ONLY had a AAAA record, and there are darn few of those out there. In other words, leaving IPv6 (and Teredo) enabled on your home PC have absolutely no impact on your networking performance.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:52 AM by Sean Siler [MSFT]
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Rob: … copying a file takes 41% of the CPU. What kind of networking stack has that kind of processor overhead?

          I regarded this kind of behavior when copying files using SMB. The same file copied from the same server using FTP was many times faster.

          Regards, Lothar

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:54 AM by Lothar
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput

          @Chris
          re: (I realize that now that you can pin a NIC to a particular CPU)

          can you elaborate? I’m looking around and can’t find any info – this could be helpful on one of my servers.

          Thanks

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:00 AM by Erik
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          I have had a ton of issues with media playback in Vista on both single core and dual core platforms, with and without Aero even when it could easily support it. My solution has been to shutdown as many ancillary services as possible, and there are a lot. Most, if not all of the security services are gone, and that was strictly for my sanity. Many of the disk services and indexing are shutdown. I do actually know where my content is and don’t need any help finding it. And then I shutdown some more things that just seemed to be hanging out and not really providing any immediately useful service. The result is a fairly smooth running system that runs aero, the sidebar, other applications, and my i-tunes videos full screen without glitches. Prior to shutting all of these things down, i-tunes videos were unwatchable, streaming internet video (ie simple slideshows) were unwatchable, and the whole media experience was enough to make me beg for XP back, or even 2000 pro. My disk access has gone from essentially constant to only when I’m actively doing something. Now I have my LED for power that stays on, and my disk activity LED is no longer solid 24/7. Things that ran fine on XP systems with less than half the performance of the current system now run like they should. Moving large files across the Gigabit network also move like they should. Vista still won’t play wmv files that run fine on my other XP boxes. Winamp will play them just fine on VISTA, but Media Player says there is a problem with my WHQL video card.

          Why all of this? There are many other issues with Vista playing media than the one network issue mentioned here and eliminating many of the ancillary services will go a long way, but not nearly all the way, to solving them. There error codes that Windows Media Player provide are of course useless because there is no description for them. I would have thought that all of the effort going into the driver certification process and application certification process would have resulted in a more stable and better performing system, but alas this has not been the case.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:03 AM by Mike E
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          > Despite even this level of throttling, Internet

          > traffic, even on the best broadband connection, won?t

          > be affected.

          This is only a valid analogy for someone downloading a single file off the Internet from a single source.

          Throw in P2P-anything and you get huge number of small packets which Vista will happily throttle for you [sigh], regardless of your actual bandwidth.

          One problem is you use packets/sec regardless of how ‘full’ those packets are. Another is that Vista apparently has a horribly inefficient TCP stack… 40% CPU usage for a file copy?

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:07 AM by Redesign It
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          “Games are slower overall because of all the added functionality and features in Vista… even with many services, eyecandy, and programs disabled I still find programs run better in XP (and even better in Linux!). For example, BioShock runs horribly on my computer in Vista with input and audio lag making it unplayable. This didn’t surprise me too much as my computer didn’t meet the minimum specs in the CPU department. But, in XP, it ran quite acceptably.”

          – Not to mention all the DRM throughout the audio and video stack. Benefitting who exactly? Not really the consumer, they’re better off with XP arguably. DX10 runs a fair bit quicker on XP and Linux (with the “backported” un-official release), that surely means something is very wrong.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:11 AM by Ken Davis
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          So this explains the problems with MCE’s having stutter problems? As they push data over the network while doing ‘media playback’ at the same time?

          The Transcode360 forums are full of this problem too.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:09 PM by Lee
          # The *MAXIMUM* standard frame is 1500
          Correction: “the standard Ethernet frame size is about 1500 bytes” should be “the *MAXIMUM* standard Ethernet frame size is about 1500 bytes.”

          This is significant because it is a “well known fact” that most ethernet frames are a lot less than the maximum length. It is only when pumping lots of data (e.g. file transfers) that maximum size frames are used heavily, and even then the acknowledgment frames going back to the data source are typically 64 bytes (minimum size).

          The minimum frame is 64 bytes, which works out to about 164,000 frames/second so throttling at 10,000 frames/second will throttle the network a *whole* lot worse than the calculation based on 1500 byte packets.

          Note that there is the same amount of overhead in a 1500 byte frame and a 64 byte frame, meaning the amount of useful data that gets passed in shorter frames is even worse.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:33 PM by gvb
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Robert Love (Linux Kernel Developer and author of Linux Kernel Development) has a good article comparing Linux’s implementation vs. Vista’s – he states that even on Gigabit Ethernet Linux equivalent of Vista’s DPC is unable to generate more than minuscule amount of CPU Usage.

          So can it be concluded that Vista’s Network performance is abysmal and to plug that Microsoft had to play around with prioritizing Multimedia and penalizing the network performance? Why would this ugly hack be required if Vista network implementation did not consume this much CPU.

          Mark – Answer is really appreciated. Thanks.

          Here is the URL for Robert Love’s blog post – http://blog.rlove.org/2007/08/those-dang-dpcs-clogging-mmcss.html

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:36 PM by LinuxGuy
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          The real questions, I suppose, have to do with the various virtualization scenarios – XP under Vista, or Vista under XP, and whether this resource allocation can be “fooled” under these circumstances.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:45 PM by Neil Prestemon
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          I just tried killing MMCSS along with the registery hack for the audio service, and it works like a charm. I was stuck at 10% transfers, and now I hit 80%. Fantastic! The interesting thing is why I was experiencing this before. Well, the majority of my network transfers are with media files, which means that I open a folder with lots of media files (i.e., AVIs) and copy them to another folder with lots of media files. No music playing, no video playing, and yet Vista slows down. Why? Because explorer is busy creating previews of all those media files, hence kicking in MMCSS and it’s silly slowdown! Well there you go, problem solved, another useless piece of software goes down.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:51 PM by FooBarBaz
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          And, yes, the same hardware running Linux can play back a glitch free mp3 while keeping the network link fully loaded with send and receive data.

          The answer to this particular problem – switch to Linux.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:04 PM by Anon
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          “The minimum frame is 64 bytes, which works out to about 164,000 frames/second so throttling at 10,000 frames/second will throttle the network a *whole* lot worse than the calculation based on 1500 byte packets.”

          True, but how often does one send out more than 10000 little frames per second? Usually when you’re transferring more than 10000 frames it’s because they’re part of, for example, a large TCP stream, and those frames are likely the maximum size, i.e. that of the MTU.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:06 PM by steveo
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Mark,

          Thanks for an honest discussion of the issue. It’s sad that MS can spend billions developing Vista and an obvious magic-number hack (and a buggy one too!) like this is acceptable for production release to the world.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:07 PM by Pete R
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          “PS – I have a *phone* running a 200 MHz ARM with a piddly little OS and am able to play streaming MP3’s on a broadband wireless network with no hassles. And a dual-core, 2 GHz desktop uses 41% CPU to simply copy files???”

          Does your phone transfer files at gigabit network speeds? I presume it does not so it appears you didn’t read the article and are making an invalid comparison.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:46 PM by Leo Davidson
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          “Why would this ugly hack be required if Vista network implementation did not consume this much CPU.”

          It seems to be a scheduling/throttling issue, rather than one caused by something using too much CPU. The problem is that fixed magic numbers were chosen, perhaps based on the worst-case hardware, and obviously without thinking about the requirements of gigabit networks.

          I don’t think Vista is actually using 100% CPU in this situation; the problem is that it’s still throttling the network “just in case” of something that won’t happen.

          With gigabit networks so common now, and for years, it’s surprising that this slipped through but it looks like it’s being addressed and it’s great to have it explained openly, and in detail, so soon after the issue was diagnosed.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:51 PM by Leo Davidson
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Leo Davidson said –

          “It seems to be a scheduling/throttling issue, rather than one caused by something using too much CPU. The problem is that fixed magic numbers were chosen, perhaps based on the worst-case hardware, and obviously without thinking about the requirements of gigabit networks.”

          If I could do network I/O without taxing the CPU I would not land into trouble with scheduling and neither would I need to do any throttling. The problem is not magic numbers themselves – the problem lies int the fact that they were needed.

          There is no excuse to use more than tiny amount of CPU to do network I/O even at Gigabit speeds if the OS and networking stack are designed sanely. Read the blog post I linked to.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:26 PM by LinuxGuy
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          I’m not so sure that the issue as described here scopes the symptoms broadly enough. I have a 100Mb network, 3GHz PC and all the latest Realtek HD audio drivers. I generally use iTunes connected my file server where my audio files are stored, and a number of other players for DVD and movie files both locally and on the server. The PC was previously happily running Windows 2000 and 2003 Server (it’s my development box), so I know it’s not the hardware. Under Vista, sound output is dire- sound playback hops, skips and squeaks to the extent that I now do my editing on another PC running Win2k. I have the same problem on a Sony AR31S which also has HD Audio playback.

          Using the same perfmon settings as above, I’m not seeing the same profile. My my network access is very ‘spikey’- zero to 400kps spikes while iTunes plays MP3.

          All these drivers are relatively frequently updated and I’ve noticed that the performance changes somewhat between versions (up and down), but is never resolved. Even setting iTunes to use it’s max buffer size (which would hopefully overcome a variable speed network problem) does not help.

          I feel that the problem is perhaps deeper in the HD Audio system that Vista introduces. The early Realtek HD drivers were rubbish and if I recall MS pushed a HD Audio fix early one- perhaps there’s more to learn and resolve? Unfortunately I’ve not the network diagnostics and audio driver skills to provide better diagnosis. I cannot identify any perfmon counters to measure HD Audio drivers, but iTunes CPU usage runs around 5-15%.

          I’m just hanging out for a proper fix (doh!) and wait for a fix and currently play music on a regular CD player. Bummer.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:34 PM by Stewart
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          It’s refreshing to hear a valid, lucid explanation of what the issue really is instead of the background “noise” created by the FUD mongers at Slashdot. Thank you once again for leading the way to understanding core Windows technologies.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:35 PM by FusionGuy
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          “It’s refreshing to hear a valid, lucid explanation of what the issue really is instead of the background “noise” created by the FUD mongers at Slashdot. Thank you once again for leading the way to understanding core Windows technologies.”

          This is a “lucid explanation” of a really BAD DESIGN.

          This is not FUD, its purely bad design… Do you know another OS in the world that needs more than 40% of the processor to handle a GigE traffic?

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:49 PM by Lucio
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Do you even know how to measure kernel time as a percentage of total processing time in any OS? I’ll give you a hint — it doesn’t show up in a typical CPU utilization chart.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 3:04 PM by Dupe
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          This is not only a Windows problem. You can find the same on many other OS.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:04 PM by CableGuy
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Lucio, nobody is claiming their isn’t a problem here. MS (or at least two MS employees in their blogs) are being quite open about the fact there is a problem that needs fixing.

          The FUD that I believe FusionGuy was referring to was people jumping to baseless conclusions that this issue was caused by the evil multimedia DRM in Vista and other such nonsense.

          It’s great that Mark and Larry (http://blogs.msdn.com/larryosterman/default.aspx) from Microsoft have been able to shed light on this new issue in such detail and I hope it puts an end to the FUD. The issue itself still needs to be solved but it’s clear that it’s being taken seriously, being worked on by the people that need to fix it, and not being hidden or excused.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:38 PM by Leo Davidson
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Mark – sorry, I know you’re one of the most credible living authorities on Windows, but you have a lot to learn about IP networks.

          A “standard Ethernet frame” isn’t 1500 bytes at all – as has been pointed out, the minimum is just 64 bytes, and a realistic average for a TCP stream would be somewhere between 600 and 900 bytes. If you’re using (the increasingly popular) UDP or some other connectionless protocol, the average tends to get smaller.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:59 PM by Mike
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          “It’s great that Mark and Larry (http://blogs.msdn.com/larryosterman/default.aspx) from Microsoft have been able to shed light on this new issue in such detail and I hope it puts an end to the FUD. The issue itself still needs to be solved but it’s clear that it’s being taken seriously, being worked on by the people that need to fix it, and not being hidden or excused.”

          No. This is where you’re downright WRONG.

          There should be no “issue” in the first place. Have you read any of the notes in this thread? Re-read everything, re-read all of them. Everyone is saying the same thing: how exactly did a FLAW like this get 1) created, 2) pass QA/testing, 3) shipped, and 4) not noticed after the release?

          What needs to happen is that Microsoft needs to fire the FTE (or terminate the contract of the dashtrash individual) who idealised/designed the methodology used, and also needs to terminate whoever was involved in the writing/production of the related code.

          Yes, someone needs to get fired over this. I will repeat myself: FIRED. Terminated. No more job. No more free Starbucks coffee, no more little ball-rubbing managerial meetings with PMs, no more time wasting. Whoever wrote the code needs to be axed, NOW. Oh, but I’m sure if they’re a FTE, they won’t be terminated, because Microsoft never fires FTEs — they just relocate them into other depts. and let them make the same mistakes over and over. Or maybe they’ll become a PM. 😉

          I’m well aware of Microsoft’s business practises — I mean, everyone who works there has taken Microsoft’s SBC 2007, right? SBC talks about *taking responsibility* and making good decisions, and that’s what Microsoft supposedly prides itself on doing. Was this engineering flaw even remotely a good decision? No. Was this engineering methodology discussed with other programmers? Probably. And no one chimed in with “Uh, this probably isn’t a good idea, Joe…”? Fire them all.

          So who’s going to pay? Whose ass is on the line? Oh right, I forgot: the consumer’s. Every Vista customer will suffer because one or two half-ass engineers at Microsoft decided “this way is AWESOME”.

          This entire engineering flaw proves that Microsoft is intentionally hiring programmers who need to “think opposite of UNIX” (and not “think outside the box”), does *absolutely NO form of decent QA* on their products, and simply put, doesn’t give a rats ass about a better end-user/consumer experience — all they care about is more services, more abstraction (WINDOWS MEDIA LIBRARY ENUMERATION DEVICE MANAGEMENT SERVICE!!!! YEAH!!!), and more CRAP.

          Do not tell me Vista needs a high-end P4 CPU when you’ve got _engineering flaws_ like this in your device ABI. This is atrocious. Back to what I said originally: someone, or some people, need to get FIRED over this.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:33 PM by I like sausages
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Mark, I commend to your notice the eHome tool VPT – contact John Pennock for details. Using this tool, I generated an ~85Mbps outbound TCP stream (on a 100bT network), which immediately fell to ~42Mbps when a local media file was played. This seems a bit more intrusive than your analysis indicated.

          VPT allows you to drive configurable bit-rates, as well, both in TCP and UDP protocols, using your choice of packet lengths (or msg sizes for some tests).

          You might find it interesting that playing media on the sending side of this flood test results in a larger performance penalty than playing on the receiving side. (That’s what’s described above) Also, increasing the message size to ~10 MTU almost completely eliminates the effect, at least on the receiving side.

          Hope this tool helps shed some light on the matter, when used by more capable hands than mine.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:51 PM by Dick Martin Shorter
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Sounds like MS still don’t understand scheduling… Or just presume that no one watches a DVD while doing other things.

          I tend to agree with “I like sausages”… The people responsible for this should be fired, or at least demoted to a level where they don’t touch code at all (janitor, marketing, graphical people, I don’t care).

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 7:27 PM by Tim B
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          “Tests of MMCSS during Vista development showed that, even with thread-priority boosting, heavy network traffic can cause enough long-running DPCs to prevent playback threads from keeping up with their media streaming requirements, resulting in glitching.” I’m going to assume that it wasn’t “normal” media streaming, but DRM-protected media. And probably not music, but video. However, the biggest question that I have is who designed the IP stack so that it handles packets for the TCP/IP driver. Both TCP and UDP are designed to throttle back if the CPU can’t keep up with the traffic. The DPC should be moving the packet into a buffer and then returning, not calculating TCP checksums. Let someone interrupible do that; if the buffer fills up in the meantime, let the retransmit algoithms deal with it.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:57 PM by samwyse
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          I wish the limit was lower yet. On my wireless network, transferring data at even moderate speeds (a few megabits per second) can cause glitching in audio playback. And this is with a fast dual-core processor.

          Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:59 PM by Adam Zey
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput

          @Erik
          :

          We had several Dual Processor P4’s with Hyperthreading, and we were trying to set up MS ISA 2004 on Windows 2003 SP1. The servers had multiple NIC’s, and we ran network throughput testing software between the servers either side of the ISA servers we were testing.

          I think it was the combination of using NIC bonding (aka Gigabit-etherchannel) as well as having multiple processors.

          It seemed like the nics were continually being handled by different CPU’s with some sort of context switch penalty when this happened. We could only manage something like 70Mbits through these servers when the theoretical maximum should have been 2 Gigabit.

          We ran out of time and so replaced the servers with linux which did not exhibit the problem, (could exceed at least 1 gigabit throughput)

          However afterwards I read somewhere that there is a setting somehow to enforce each nic to a particular cpu only, which may give better performance.

          http://support.microsoft.com/kb/252867 explains how to set the processor affinity to a single nic, as per the ISA recommendation in KB293640.

          My point to Zachary is that it’s not about optimizing code specifically for Hyperthreading/SMP, but more that since it’s very common now to have HT or SMP that something would need to be done to counteract this symptom. Perhaps the TCP/IP stack was fixed past Windows 2003 SP1 or in Vista so this is no longer applicable…

          Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:05 AM by Chris
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          The whole trick is to enforce unfair rules in a way the user expects. Prioritizing audio/video playback over network traffic is very reasonable indeed! The throttling leaves somewhat to be desired though…

          DPCs in the TCP/IP stack being long-running and non-preemptible (except by other interrupts) seems a little problematic. Once the critical sections of the interrupt handlers are finished, is there any reason not to queue up the remaining work so it can be scheduled fairly against other processes?

          The current approach essentially results in priority inversion on behalf of the processes that are doing all of the heavy I/O because the time spent in the kernel doing interrupt processing is not charged against them. When that happens scheduler priority classes become largely irrelevant and the rest of the system starves. It might also undermine rate management algorithms depending on how much buffering is going on.

          Is it possible to prevent this case through more accurate bookkeeping that takes into account the amount of time spent performing kernel services “on behalf of” a user-space process? If the consuming process can be identified early enough in the processing chain, then subsequent processing could be deferred unless the process has enough available CPU cycles in its budget for it to proceed. Thus a process that performed very heavy network I/O could only starve other processes if it resided in a sufficiently elevated priority class.

          Essentially, that would make “realtime” priority classes meaningful in the face of DPCs. But it sounds like a whole lot of work.

          So…

          What happens when using multi-core CPUs? Are ordinary processes allowed to run concurrently with DPCs? If so, can this property be used as part of the algorithm to tune throttling?

          Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:35 AM by Jeff Brown
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Surely setting multimedia playback to the highest possible priority means that it takes all the CPU time it needs and the rest can be used for other processes (i.e., handling network traffic). What’s the point of having prioritized processes otherwise? It seems like there’s some kind of fundamental flaw in Vista process scheduling. God help us all if anybody tries to use Vista for important stuff like medical equipment monitoring.

          Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:30 AM by tck
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          At such a low speed this might be due to something else.

          Wednesday, August 29, 2007 3:59 AM by James
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Obviously, if network was not demanding so much CPU, you could give more to the audio subsystem. But Vista would not probably be Vista if it did.

          Wednesday, August 29, 2007 4:02 AM by ccj
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          I very much disagree with “I like sausages”.

          Someone tells a story (and I can’t remember who) about a programmer who makes a mistake which costs his employer a huge sum of money (millions, maybe even 10s of millions). He gets called into see the boss, fully expecting to be fired, and gets a thorough roasting. At the end of the meeting he asks the boss about handing in his security badge, but the boss replies “I just spent x-million on your education. Why would I want to fire you?”

          Wednesday, August 29, 2007 4:18 AM by Tom M
          # If you think it’s trivial, you don’t understand the problem
          “Heads must roll?”. Before you pass out from over-ranting, go learn about the difference between a real-time OS and one that schedules threads of various priority.

          Oversimplifying, real-time means being able to GUARANTEE a RT thread will receive cycles either periodically and/or for a specified period. A trivial example is the engine computer in your new car — it must be able to schedule the proper sparkplug to fire within a few microseconds at high rpm.

          OSes designed for real-time don’t make for very good interactive, graphical user experiences, since it’s not important, for example, for all threads, particular the majority that do things like draw pixel, to run at a precisely specified time. For this use, you want an OS that can schedule threads using variable priority, while avoiding priority inversion and such, to get a responsive interface.

          The basic desktop PC OSes (MS, *nix) use the latter kernel scheduling design because you want a nice user experience. As you can probably deduce, there are a few types of functions running on the desktop OS that require GUARANTEED cycles at specific times, and if they don’t get their “tick” EVERY time, you hear a pop or click or video streak or ….

          So how do you implement such a hybrid OS? The old way (before Vista) was to schedule and run the RT-critical stuff in the Interrupt/DPC arena, leaving the scheduler to handle everything else as interruptible threads. The problem is that as your add more and more time-critical processes that need guaranteed cycles, you start writing a mini-scheduler that controls the stuff in the IRP/DPC world, and it’s really difficult to sync and interact this with the other world of scheduled threads.

          Vista, using MMCSS and new dynamic thread priority/importance mechanism, is attempting to move this Real-Time stuff back under a generic thread-scheduling design. One could argue that all of the DPC stuff in Vista should be converted to scheduled RT threds, and that would prevent anything except uncontrolled interrupt handlers from delaying RT functionality.

          In RTM Vista, it looks like the network hardware stuff is still running in DPCs that are capable of stalling the RealTime stuff. The obvious question is why are the DPCs doing so much? If you think it’s easy to do things like avoid deadlocks when you have DPCs and RT threads sharing data, then it won’t be obvious to you why a network DPC may have to do more than minimal operation on a chunk of data.

          Blaming “some idiot FTE” for these design problems isn’t pointing the gun in the right direction. Rather, the problem is how to dynamically limit the network DPC activity based on how likely the RT threads are to miss their scheduled time. You obviously don’t want to wait until you hear a pop/click before throttling back, so you must design an anticipatory algorithm to prevent interference by throttling the rate of interrupts that run DPCs. (This is extremely hard to do reliably, across all performance levels of CPUs and network hardware, making the “hack” look more appealing.)

          My guess is that future Vista scheduling mechanisms will move most or all of the remaining DPC-level code into real-time threads like the multimedia is now, but until that happens, the next best thing will be to come up with a more effective algorithm to dynamically limit the DPC activity based on how likely the RT threads are to miss their scheduled time.

          Read Larry Osterman’s blog quoted a few comments above about how isochronous streams require RT scheduling, and realize that major redesign of the kernel is not gonna happen in a SP, leaving the likely near-term solution to be limited dynamic network throttling based on a better anticipatory algorithm for the RT stuff. (I’m glad I’m not the one who has to come up with the solution — I’ve been there and done similar, and it’s a brain-twister.) However, some time in the future, the beauty of converting DPC tasks to RT threads is that threads scale very nicely to dual/quad/heptapenta core processors.

          And yes, I realize that Linux doesn’t have this problem — their equivalent of kernel DPCs is handled in the scheduler (which is the main reason it was so tough to get it right).

          (I don’t work for MS — in fact, I often don’t agree with some of the design approaches they have taken, but I hate to see great software engineers flamed just because understanding the problem is beyond the grasp of some.)

          As us old kernel farts used to say, flames to /dev/null (google it if you don’t grok)

          Wednesday, August 29, 2007 4:49 AM by Jerry Schneider
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          I am perplexed by the claim that Internet traffic is not affected by this, and even more perplexed by its reasoning. Is the writer perhaps unaware that people with beefy Internet connections get 9 gigabits per second of bandwidth in long distance benchmarks, and still much more than 1 gigabits in real world applications?

          Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:18 AM by Erno
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          Jerry Schneider – Is it not that DPCs consuming large amount of CPU is the main short term problem for MSFT to resolve? If the DPCs operated efficiently (i.e. they did not consume more than few percent CPU) would not the scheduler have more time to give to the RT Audio task and things be fine? Why would one give up on optimizing the DPCs? With modern NICs with offloads and interrupt coalescing and such sophisticated features DPCs have no business using so much CPU.

          Can anyone explain why optimizing DPCs would not work?

          Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:41 AM by LinuxGuy
          # re: Vista Multimedia Playback and Network Throughput
          The more I read about this issue the stranger it becomes. There are so many problems it’s even hard to know where to start.

          1. Why does the audio system require the following:

          “For instance, in Vista, the audio engine runs with a periodicity of 10 milliseconds. That means that every 10 milliseconds, it MUST wake up and process the next set of audio samples, or the user will hear a “pop”

      • #2512757

        fatally flawed vista

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to vista has fatal flaws

        nothing but total vindication
        Microsoft Extends XP Sales to June 2008
        Thursday September 27, 7:06 pm ET
        Microsoft Adds 5 Months to Windows XP’s Shelf Life

        REDMOND, Wash. (AP) — Microsoft Corp. said it will keep selling its Windows XP operating system beyond January, in response to demand from customers.
        The company decided to extend the deadline until the end of June to give customers — particularly small businesses — more time to switch to the new Windows Vista.

        ADVERTISEMENT

        “Maybe we were a little ambitious to think that we would need to make Windows XP available for only a year after the release of Windows Vista,” said Mike Nash, a corporate vice president for Windows product management at Microsoft.

        While software retailers and major computer makers like Dell Inc. will stop offering XP next June, system builders, or smaller companies that make and sell PCs, will still sell the older operating system until the end of January 2009.

        Nash said Microsoft’s policy in the past has been to discontinue an old operating system four years after its launch. But because Vista reached consumers more than five years after XP, the company had to revise the rules.

        “Making it available through June was a little bit better” for customers, Nash said.

        In April, Dell, which had all but stopped selling XP to consumers, said it would bring back more XP machines after customers asked for it. At the time, Microsoft responded that only “a small minority of customers” were still interested in the old operating system.

        Microsoft is also extending the availability of a version of XP aimed at customers in emerging markets, Windows XP Starter Edition, until June 30, 2010.

    • #2476813

      Ms has finally admitted & let the cat out of the bag!

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Microsoft Extends XP Sales to June 2008
      Thursday September 27, 7:06 pm ET
      Microsoft Adds 5 Months to Windows XP’s Shelf Life

      REDMOND, Wash. (AP) — Microsoft Corp. said it will keep selling its Windows XP operating system beyond January, in response to demand from customers.
      The company decided to extend the deadline until the end of June to give customers — particularly small businesses — more time to switch to the new Windows Vista.
      “Maybe we were a little ambitious to think that we would need to make Windows XP available for only a year after the release of Windows Vista,” said Mike Nash, a corporate vice president for Windows product management at Microsoft.

      While software retailers and major computer makers like Dell Inc. will stop offering XP next June, system builders, or smaller companies that make and sell PCs, will still sell the older operating system until the end of January 2009.

      Nash said Microsoft’s policy in the past has been to discontinue an old operating system four years after its launch. But because Vista reached consumers more than five years after XP, the company had to revise the rules.

      “Making it available through June was a little bit better” for customers, Nash said.

      In April, Dell, which had all but stopped selling XP to consumers, said it would bring back more XP machines after customers asked for it. At the time, Microsoft responded that only “a small minority of customers” were still interested in the old operating system.

      Microsoft is also extending the availability of a version of XP aimed at customers in emerging markets, Windows XP Starter Edition, until June 30, 2010.

      • #2476808

        ms has failed

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to Ms has finally admitted & let the cat out of the bag!

        WITH TWO OVERLAPPING events, Microsoft admitted what we have been saying all along, Vista, aka Windows Me Two (Me II), is a joke that no one wants.
        It did two unprecedented things this week that frankly stunned us.

        Dell announced that it would be offering XP again on home PCs. The second that Vista came out, Microsoft makes it very hard for you to sell anything other than Me II. It can’t do this on the business side because it would be laughed out the door, but for the walking sheep class, well, you take what you are shovelled.

        This is classic abusive monopoly behaviour, Microsoft wrote the modern book on it. It pulled all the major OEMs in by twisting their arms with the usual methods, and they again all fell into line. Never before has anyone backpedalled on this, to do so would earn you the wrath of Microsoft.

        But Dell just did. This means that Me II sales are at least as bad as we think, the software and driver situation is just as miserable, and Dell had no choice but to buck the trend. If anyone thinks this is an act of atonement for foisting such a steaming pile on us, think again, it doesn’t care about the consumer.

        What happened is, the OEMs revolted in the background and forced Microsoft’s hand. This is a big neon sign above Me II saying ‘FAILURE’. Blink blink blink. OK, Me II won’t fail, Microsoft has OEMs whipped and threatened into a corner, it will sell, but you can almost hear the defectors marching toward Linux. This is a watershed.

        The other equally monumental Me II failure? Gates in China launching a $3 version of bundled XP. Why is this not altruism? Well, it goes back to piracy and how it helped enforce the MS monopoly. If you can easily pirate Windows, Linux has no price advantage, they both cost zero.

        With Me II, Microsoft made it very hard to pirate. It is do-able, you can use the BIOS hack and probably a host of others, but the point is, it raised the bar enough so lots of people have to buy it. Want to bet that in a country with $100 average monthly salary, people aren’t going to shell out $299 for Me II Broken Edition?

        What did MS do? It dropped the price about 100x or so. I can’t say this is unprecedented, when it made Office 2003 hard to pirate it had to backpedal with the student edition for about $150. This time though, things are much more desperate.

        If you fit Microsoft’s somewhat convoluted definition of poor, it still wants to lock you in, you might get rich enough to afford the full-priced stuff someday. It is at a dangerous crossroads, if its software bumps up the price of a computer by 100 per cent, people might look to alternatives.

        That means no Me II DRM infection lock in, no mass migration to the newer Office obfuscated and patented file formats, and worse yet, people might utter the W word. Yes, you guessed it, ‘why’. People might ask why it is sticking with the MS lock in, and at that point, it is in deep trouble.

        So, it did the unthinkable, and dropped the price. I won’t bother to hunt down all the exec quotes saying how people can’t afford clean water would be overjoyed to sell kidneys to upgrade to the new version of Office, but they are out there. This was a sacred cow, and it is now hamburger backed up against the wall.

        These two actions by Microsoft are proof of what I suggested three years ago. Microsoft has lost its ability to twist arms, and now it is going to die. It can’t compete on level ground, so is left with backpedalling and discounts of almost 100 times.

        What we are seeing is an unprecedented shift of power. It is also an unprecedented admission of failure. And the funniest part about the moves made? They are the wrong things to do. Microsoft is in deep trouble. ?

        • #2476805

          vista is a flop

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to ms has failed

          Love It
          You put it perfectly. I have had enough of MS running the show. I am a sheep, correction, a very angry sheep. I am utterly stunned by the arrogance and inability to understand what users want. Hey, Bill, I just want to get something done, fast and simple. I don’t need or want all the options you are clobbering me with.

          posted by : Eunice Moyer, 05 October 2007

        • #2476804

          fait accompli

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista is a flop

          Vista? Brand XP gets my vote
          Daughter got Vista upgrade on her new XP desktop last year. [Dell]. One or two nice items, but very slow and difficult. Has now reverted to XP. I used it once to transfer material from one USB attachment to another. Total confusion, very slow. Went back to nice, clear XP. I have always upgraded Windows, from early days. But not this time. Love XP. Hate Vista.

          posted by : Barbara Prowse, 07 October 2007 TechFinder
          Search for Software, Hardware & Services
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        • #2476802

          developers can access source code

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to fait accompli

          Hands off Microsoft’s reference source code
          Microsoft is offering developers a view into its source code, but it doesn’t want anyone touching it. According to Scott Guthrie, general manager of the Microsoft .NET Framework in Microsoft’s Developer Division, Microsoft will be releasing the reference source code for the .NET Framework under the made-in-Redmond Microsoft Reference License. What is your opinion of the Microsoft Reference License?

    • #2477760

      the truth is out

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      dell says they’ve got incredible deals but it’s to do with xp & not much with vista.
      Proof that vista is allready been ditched by the business communuty is that dell prefers to offer xp with their deals.

    • #2624967

      well well apple sales have hit the roof &

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      share prices for apple have gone up dramatically unlike ms.more proof to me!

      • #2623464

        Maybe so

        by ang2006 ·

        In reply to well well apple sales have hit the roof &

        I have no doubt that Apple is a fine operating system but of the ones I have seen, I just cannot get used to not having something as simple as Windows Explorer to work from. Maybe if they had an Apple Explorer I could get more interested. I like the Tree formations as it is simple to work with.

    • #2472991

      nearly a year after it’s release & vista

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Has not made any progress like the orher
      released oses.Proof galore that its crap.
      Ms does’nt even recommend it anymore.Xp is still the way to go!!

    • #2638009

      proof galore of vista being a complete dud

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Vista SP1 no faster than stock OS, say testing experts
      Windows Vista Service Pack 1 (SP1) is not measurably faster than the original stock edition, a Florida-based developer of performance testing and network metrics software said yesterday.
      By Gregg Keizer / Wednesday, November 21 2007

      Windows Vista Service Pack 1 (SP1) is not measurably faster than the original stock edition, a Florida-based developer of performance testing and network metrics software said yesterday.

      “Microsoft has hinted that SP1 is faster than Vista RTM,” said Craig Barth, the chief technology officer at Devil Mountain Software, referring to the release to manufacturing version of the operating system. “But we found pretty much nothing measurable. It surprised me as much as it surprised everyone else, but the numbers are the numbers.”

      Devil Mountain ran its DMS Clarity Studio framework on a laptop Barth described as a “barn burner” — dual-core processor, dedicated graphics, and either 1GB or 2GB of memory — to compare performance of the SP1 release candidate that Microsoft released last week with the RTM version that hit general distribution last January. The Vista RTM was not updated with any of the bug fixes, patches or performance packs that Microsoft has pushed through Windows Update since the operating system’s debut.

      “One gigabyte, 2GB [of memory], it didn’t make a difference,” said Barth. “SP1 was never more than 1% or 2% faster.”

      The difference between Vista RTM and SP1 on Devil Mountain’s Microsoft Office-based test script was “statistically insignificant,” Barth said, while a multitasking test panel produced results for SP1 less than 1% faster than RTM.

      “Our goal wasn’t to bash Vista,” said Barth. “We’ve been doing this for a while, we know how to do it, and we tried to be as clinical as possible. But SP1 is not going to be a panacea for any performance problems users have with Vista. If you’ve been disappointed with the performance of Windows Vista, you’re not going to be any happier with SP1.”

      The bottom line: It’s Vista’s architecture and feature set — Barth cited Volume Shadow Copy, Vista’s snapshot service, as an example — not a lack of fine-tuning or bug fixes that makes it perform poorly on PCs that run Windows XP blazingly fast.

      Microsoft has touted a pair of performance packs that it has delivered to Vista users via Windows Update and that have also been rolled into SP1. The updates, issued most recently just last week, have included fixes for such performance-related issues as slow waking from power-saving states. Microsoft was not immediately available to comment on the Monday test results.

      Barth also said Devil Mountain is kicking off a community-based testing network, dubbed exo.performance.network, that it hopes can grow into an industry metrics resource. Users who register receive access to some of the company’s testing scripts and a web-based portal where results are shared. Some software must be downloaded and installed on the user’s PC.

    • #2642001

      carico writes that vista is the worst op system

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Not in my opinion. Reading the Vista article, we see the following points from the author to justify its inclusion in the list:

      1. That a percentage of new computer purchasers from top tier OEMs want to buy a machine with the previous version of Windows

      2. That MS has offered a Vista downgrade offer for people requiring XP

      3. Vista has hardware compatibility issues

      4. UAC

      5. Abusive use of DRM

      6. Greatly pointless as an upgrade

      Points 1, 2 and 3 fail to consider the significant changes that Vista brings to Windows. Three of the most significant are the updated network stack, now with IPv6 support, and the low latency audio stack, and the new Windows Display Driver Model. All of these are major improvements, but they come at a cost of backwards compatibility with hardware designed to run on earlier versions of Windows in some cases.

      The new low latency audio stack now puts Vista in the same league as any other OS in the realm of pro audio. Per app volume control is very useful

      IPv6 is the way of the future as more and more devices become network enabled.

      The new display model now provides enhanced fault tolerance. Microsoft learned from the tens of thousands of crash reports on earlier Windows versions, that a major source of system instability, hanging and blue screens were graphics related. WDDM gives Vista a robustness that is not matched by any previous version of Windows. It also gives the benefit of requiring less rebooting when the driver is updated.

      “UAC” is required. The massive botnets made up predominately of infected computers running XP and earlier versions of Windows are testimony to that. UAC is featured in comparable OSes like Linux, BSD and OS X. UAC can be turned off for Power Users, but for the vast majority of users who are incapable of doing something as mundane as changing the homepage that their browser points to, it will be left on (since it is on by default), and for this class of user, the bonehead, that is a good thing. Vista cannot be made more secure than previous versions of Windows without it. As most of us already know, once a system is setup with the suite of apps the user is going to use, UAC largely keeps out of the way unles you need to do something that changes system settings. For Power Users, and others who just love to install a new app on their system every hour or so, it can be pain, but such users will typically know how to run in Admin mode when they need to do lots of installing, or turn UAC off altogether. But the vast numbers of boneheads who just want to use a computer to surf, check mail, upload some snaps and watch Youtube, UAC will stay on, protecting them from themselves, and keeping largely out of the way while doing it. The weakest link in system security does not generally come from the OS but rather from the person between the chair and keyboard

      “Abusive use of DRM”. I am at a loss to decipher what the author is referring to here? I am yet to encounter a DRM issue with Vista? The only extra DRM that appears in Vista and not in an OS like OS X is the DRM required to play back protected High Def video. But since so few of us actually have a Blue Ray or HD DVD player in our systems, this DRM sits entirely inert. But if this form of High Def video content becomes more mainstream, only Vista currently has the capability to play this content back. Sure there are hacks for Linux that work up until the various authorities issues a new decoding key, then they must re-hack to get their functionality back. This activity, while possible, does break certain laws, and is way outside the capability of Joe and Jill average computer user.

      “Greatly pointless as an upgrade” In the author’s opinion. I personally prefer Vista to all other versions of Windows, and even though I have an iMac running Leopard on the same desk as my Vista rig, I spend over 99% of my time working on the Vista box. I have never regretted updating to it. I enjoy the enhanced security that comes from features like IE7 in protected mode, address space layout randomization, Previous Versions and full system backup. Plus the myriad of other nice things like the new Windows Explorer, Photo Gallery, global indexed

    • #2641998

      carico writes that vista is the worst op system writes

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Vista to me is a real pain. Booting issues are the worst I’ve ever had to solve for others. (NTFS, FAT32, Linux FS were easy in comparison).

      Vista uses NTFS. FAT32 is old and painful and retarded and missing all good features, but its very open so its easy to mess with. Which of the ‘linux FS’s are you talking about? (I think that says enough…)

      Also, I don’t see the advantages. I was perfectly secure and happy using my x64 Edition of Windows XP, and still am

      Thats saying XP x64 is good, that does not in any way mean Vista is bad.

      I never asked for yet another learning curve with crappy “do you really want this?” nag-screens from Microsoft.

      Thats one feature, disable it if you dont like it.

      What about the 100 other good features for the ‘average’ user. EG automatic weekly defrags, windows defender, etc.

      I was so glad I had finally trimmed XP down to its very minimum annoyance, and now the market wants to push me to use Vista? Sorry, but I’ll pass.

      You can do the same wtih Vista too, Vlite exists now too (for vista, like nlite)

      (Now *that* was a good OS release from MS! I still use 2000 without failure on one of my workstations.)

      Agreed, it was a real evolution and coming of age for Windows, a MASSIVE step up from NT4 in both the AD side and the OS side of things. Never going to disagree there, except for the pain of NT4 to 2000 server changes.

      port writes…
      XP and Win2k have had a dual mode stack available for at least three years, and that mode of operation will likely outlast all of the hardware.

      Agreed, now set routing and firewalling options on them, what? they arent unified? you have to do it twice? double the maintenence? its a single stack in Vista that does IPv4 and v6, not two stacks with two sets of options and two configurations needed.

      A simple way on XP to reduce damage is to change the users accounts to “Limited access” i.e. a member of the Users group, rather than the Administrators group. However, it wasn’t a default so as to not confuse the ignorant.

      Agreed there, thats why with UAC on in Vista internet explorer runs in a limited mode.

      • #2641994

        hellman writes about superfetch

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to carico writes that vista is the worst op system writes

        I have a love/hate relationship with Superfetch. As you say, apps launch instantly. If you turn it off and then compare app launch times to XP, they launch faster in XP. So in my opinion Superfetch was implemented to offset the slower loading times caused by who knows what in Vista.

        The thing that few seem to want to admit is that Superfetch comes at a cost. When Superfetch is populating my 2 gig of ram after startup, the machine lags badly if I try to do anything else. I’m running an XP 4200+ dual core and WD Raptor drive so my hardware isn’t to blame. Admittedly with the Sleep function one doesn’t have to boot too often, but it is still a major PITA if you have to reboot a lot during software installs etc.

        I read a post recently where the poster was saying that his machine is ready to use as soon as the desktop appears. Not really unless he has Superfetch turned off. On my machine it grinds the hard drive for a couple of minutes while it populates my ram.

        What I’ve done is put a couple of shortcuts on the desktop to stop and start Superfetch. If I know I’m going to be rebooting again shortly, I stop the Superfetch service before it starts its thing.

        • #2641993

          crokan writes about vista being the monumental screw

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to hellman writes about superfetch

          up of the century.
          Read the comments sir.
          No, no VISTA WAS DEFINITELY A FLOP. This has to be the worst technological failure in the last 20 years. It almost made me switch over to Mac, it was just that bad. No argument possible, period.
          Rob | Fri 23 November, 2007 2:31pm
          Almost made him switch to Mac! MAC!!! O.o
          That’s enough said right there… if crapplemac suddenly seems better than a microsoft OS you know it must be an epic failure..

        • #2640974

          hmm

          by lindfalas ·

          In reply to hellman writes about superfetch

          If this is true, then your system is just fucket up…
          I run Vista 32bit and 64bit and I never seen this.
          When I start my computers I can use it right away.

          Greetz

    • #2645471

      vista is still a performance dud

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      vista performance still lags when compared to
      xp it’s not just drivers

    • #2654767

      performance loss as much as 22% michael can eat my shorts

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      ——————————————————————————–

      ?What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away.? Such has been the conventional wisdom surrounding the Windows/Intel (?Wintel?) duopoly since the early days of Windows 95. In practical terms, it means that performance advancements on the hardware side are quickly consumed by the ever-increasing complexity of the Windows/Office code base. Case in point: Microsoft Office 2007 which, when deployed on Windows Vista, consumes over 12x as much memory and nearly 3x as much processing power as the version that graced PCs just 7 short years ago (Office 2000).

      ——————————————————————————–

      ——————————————————————————–

      Click Image to View Our Interactive Results Table

      ——————————————————————————–

      The net result is that, surprise, Vista + Office 2007 + state of the art hardware delivers throughput that?s nearly on par (~22% slower) with the previous generation of Windows XP + Office 2003 + the previous state of the art hardware.

    • #2665743

      worst scenario vista woefull performance of 22%

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Recent aussie lab testing has confirmed that comparison tests between vista & xp has been shown to be 15 % now it has been checked & can be as bad as 22%.Why a lot of it in the way the source code has been put together like wham bam thankyou maam!!

    • #3321795

      sales of vista are dwindling as no one wants

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      the lame system.

    • #2453412

      vista fault by design

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      Why Vista is defective by design
      14th February 2007 Ashton Mills Internet, Kernel Knowledge, Vista, Windows

      Vista’s DRM features have been drawing ever more criticism, but it’s just the latest step among many that takes liberties out of the hands of users and into the media megacorps. So what are you going to do about it?

      Even Vista is, of course, just the most recent example in a litany of anti-consumer devices designed to protect monopoly distribution for the media cartels and, most certainly, Microsoft at the expense of the you, the customer.

      In his recent column on Forbes, Bruce Schneier covers off all the essential arguments, including Microsoft’s interest in implementing DRM, which I couldn’t have said better myself. In my piece on 10 reasons not to get Vista, some of the comments in response suggested that the point about the inclusion of DRM in Vista was unfair, that Microsoft’s hand was forced by Hollywood. Which is, of course, a gigantic load of wombat poo. As Schneier puts it:

      “It’s all complete nonsense. Microsoft could have easily told the entertainment industry that it was not going to deliberately cripple its operating system, take it or leave it. With 95% of the operating system market, where else would Hollywood go?”

      But the problem didn’t start with Microsoft. Copy protection, and its newer perverted cousin DRM (Digital Rights Management, or more accurately Digital Restrictions Management) has been around for a rather long time now. And it’s not that products shouldn’t be protected, it’s that frequently these protections comes at a cost to the very people who it isn’t intended for — those who legitimately buy the products.

      The problem is that, while piracy is real, Hollywood and ilk make the assumption that everyone in the entire world is guilty until proven innocent. Apparently it’s all too hard to do the right thing, so why not just treat everyone as guilty and be done with it?

      It doesn’t matter if you legitimately purchased your DVD or CD, it doesn’t matter if you wish to format shift this product you own to another device you own, and doesn’t matter that you routinely go out and buy more music and movies to enjoy — you’re a criminal, deal with it.

      As DRM has absolutely no use to the end user, and in fact hinders their experience of a purchase, DRM infused products have been termed ‘Defective by design’. Because lets face it, they are. There’s even a website for it.

      And why should you foot the bill for a copy protection mechanism that doesn’t apply to you? Eric Raymond put it best in the Jargon File with his definition of copy protection:

      “copy protection: n.

      A class of methods for preventing incompetent pirates from stealing software and legitimate customers from using it. Considered silly.”

      Decades from now our children will look back be in awe at the irony this period of human history produced. Lets cover the facts shall we:

      Fact: DRM and copy protection doesn’t stop piracy.
      We’ve had these in place for decades now. I can remember playing games on a Commodore 64 that came with a ‘code wheel’ to prevent anyone without the wheel from playing. Today there is Safedisc, Laserlock, Securom and others to prevent games being copied.

      Yet games are still pirated.

      For DVDs we’ve had CSS and CDs all manner of perverse copy protection systems — one of which could be bypassed with a felt tip pen, while another installed a rootkit (both courtesy of Sony).

      Yet DVDs and CDs are still pirated.

      Even Vista’s DRM has already been broken.

      Fact: DRM and copy protection hinders legitimate users.
      Since DRM and copy protection is applied to the products on sale, naturally it’s the people who buy the products who end up encountering it. Pirates? They rip it out and the pirated versions of software, DVD and music have no usage restrictions, and no hindrance.

      It doesn’t get clearer than this: The only people who experience copy protection are same people who support the product by buying it.

      I can already hear the children who will inherit our legacy laughing.

      Fact: DRM and copy protection has cost billions.
      Between Hollywood, Sony, EMI, and the gaming publishers I can’t imagine the volumes of money sunk into these schemes. Yet piracy still occurs. It doesn’t take a genius to realise this is dead money that — here’s a crazy idea — could have been spent actually producing products that people want to buy, and turn a profit.

      Unfortunately, it also adds to the cost to produce these products, so the end user ultimately has to foot the bill for the paranoia of the media and entertainment megacorps that see the world through pirate-coloured glasses.

      So let’s summarise…
      DRM doesn’t work, it hinders legitimate use, and it has exorbitant costs through which ultimately users foot the bill.

      And we only need to look to current events for yet another example of how pointless and expensive the pursuit of copy protection and DRM really is. As this Boing Boing blog describes, the AACS copy protection system that forms a part of both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray has already been broken (just like CSS before it on DVDs), and puts it succinctly like so:

      “AACS took years to develop, and it has been broken in weeks. The developers spent billions, the hackers spent pennies.”

      So why does the Hollywood mentality still persist?

      Because the industry just doesn?t get the future that’s bearing down on it. The RIAA and MPAA especially are a middleman the world no longer needs, and they are fighting tooth and nail to hang onto the past. As legal, downloadable, music and TV distribution has shown the future is an on-demand online market where content producers sell direct to the consumer. No one needs the MPAA or RIAA anymore, but they don’t want you to know that.

      Finally, all of this could be averted if the flawed reasoning that people are inherently criminals was actually thought about for a picosecond — if the majority of people really were thieves, there isn’t a business on this planet that would still be standing.

      The fact is, while piracy is real (and is real eveywhere — you can bet the local fruit shop loses a few apples a week), that the majority of the human race will buy products rather than steal them, because we all have an understanding that the world just wouldn’t work otherwise.

      Hollywood, for one, wouldn’t have got as big as it has if this wasn’t true. Where did all those profits come from, even in age before digital restrictions where people could still copy VHS tapes? Funny how Hollywood didn’t collapse. Instead, it’s bigger than ever.

      So here’s the message to the big content producers of this world — stop trying to protect your B-grade products from being stolen (have you seen some of the shit movies that make it to DVD?), and start investing money in making A-grade products people want to buy. Economics will do the rest.

      Heck, for a teeny tiny fraction of the millions of dollars wasted that’s been wasted so far, I could give you the next Star Trek franchise.

      And what can you do about it? Be vocal. Let them know. Don’t buy DRM products, and when you see them on the shelves fire off an email telling why you didn’t buy it. Help them to understand that keeping you happy is in the best interests of their profts. When there’s enough noise, change is inevitable.

      Defective by design: What sort of future do you want?
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      1: Why should it be MS’s place
      Why should it be MS’s place to fight the battle against DRM? Imo, it’s between the consumers and the content providers. It’s not as though MS is enforcing it upon you – it has been included in the OS for the people who wish to watch HD content which requires DRM.

      DRM in vista is only used when the CONTENT REQUIRES IT, it’s not being used when the computer is doing anything but watching HD content which the content provider has enabled DRM. Everything else is how it’s been until now. Why the big fuss?

      If you want to take up the fight against DRM I think it’s much more worthwhile actually directing it at the organisations enforcing it, not those implementing it.

      Liam (383 days ago)
      reply
      2: That’s not the biggest problem.
      I care less about DRM itself. There are bigger isssues in MS-politics. They are demanding, that hardware manufacturers have to close the specs for the hardware in order to be allowed to work with Vista and DRM without reduced quality. That will mean – no drivers for Open-Source systems anymore! It’s the comunity, not the hardware vendors who make hardware actually work in Linux. And without specs it’s completely useless. This could mean an end to free software – hardware vendors won’t produce drivers for non-popular Linux and Linux will never became real alternative without newest hardware support. Right now, the lack of supported hardware in Linux is rather an old myth, but it will become more real that it ever was.

      Erik (378 days ago)
      reply
      3: bigger underlying problem
      I have to agree with erik —there is a bigger underlying problem as the approach microsoft is taking will further reduce or elminate all future driver support for the linux community — a rather alarming trend as specs must remain proprietary to microsoft for the drm to work. Additionally, microsoft is requiring hardware and software drivers to go through new testing (all for the sake of drm) which increases the costs of computers and hardware of the entire industry. Drm is driving the entire computer industry in a manner which decreases performance, increases the cost while decreasing the reliability – the effects of microsoft placing the resources of the entire computer industry towards implementing drm may have an unforeseen negative market impact as such vast resources of the industry in the past have been used to make the computer a better product.

      d s (378 days ago)
      reply
      4: What specs?
      Have you actually tried looking for those specs? I have, and they aren’t easy to find. Most knowledge of that kind of stuff comes from reverse engineering those chips (I have a board that relays PCI, for example, and looking at the signals sent versus those received says everything about how the hardware works.

      Now, this does give those hardware manufacturers a reason not to release their specs, but I can’t see as that matters considering that they were only available under an NDA anyways…

      Dan Hirsch (374 days ago)
      reply
      5: MS are not in any position to dictate to the RIAA
      Whilst I agree with pretty much all your criticisms of DRM, I still take issue with Schneier’s “Microsoft could have easily told the entertainment industry that it was not going to deliberately cripple its operating system, take it or leave it. With 95% of the operating system market, where else would Hollywood go?”

      “95%” is very misleading. 95% of the Operating system market is still an almost negligable percentage of the film consuming market; and moreover a proportion which the RIAA has demonstrated, time and time again, that it does not give a damn about. Remember, for a while, copy protection on some Sony music CDs consisted of simply not being able to play them on a PC at all! The RIAA would be more than happy to simply say “Fuck off” to MS if MS showed even the slightest sign of not doing exactly what the RIAA orders them to.

      Think about it. What, realistically, would it mean for Sony et al if you couldn’t play HD-DVDs & Blu-ray discs on a computer? It would, mean that… Well, you’d have to buy one of Sony’s standalone Blu-ray players. More money for Sony. Where’s the downside? (It’s not like there’s a significant proportion of people who would be happy to buy a PC blu-ray player & play discs on that but would baulk at buying a stand-alone player instead).

      The RIAA are requiring all stand-alone Blu-ray & HD-DVD players to implement AACS. BR & HD discs won’t play in players that don’t. From the Sony’s perspective, a PC is simply a standalone player that doesn’t make them any money since it isn’t manufactured by them — and moreover, one that historically makes ripping & pirating easy.

      What possible reason would there be for them to cave in to MS’s hypothetical demands to make the one system that most DVDs are currently pirated on the only one which doesn’t implement the copy protection?

      Answer: none at all. Any such demands on MS’s part would be met with an incredulous laugh and a raised middle finger.

      Simon (383 days ago)
      reply
      6: The flawed argument
      One of the arguments regularly brought out by the big name publishers is the one where sales (or revenue) have dropped as the internet became more popular.

      Now, this may be true… I don’t know as I’m not one of their accountants. But the fact that they don’t even consider for half a second is that TV, music and movies have progressively been getting crappier.

      Anyone want to watch yet another remix of the latest popular reality show? How about a remake of an old popular movie? Oh, and lets turn on the radio to yet another no-talent “artist” rhyming to a short out of time loop consisting of fake drums and a dodgy FM synthesized clap, usually telling us how tough it is being an African American.

      tin (383 days ago)
      reply
      7: Could not have stated it
      Could not have stated it better. And it’s not just DRM that puts Vista on the nose.
      The same logic applies equally to Product Activation, Windows Genuine Disadvantage etc.
      If the same effort had been put into product improvements as has been spent on all these user annoyances then maybe Vista would be a miles ahead of the competition.
      The cold hard reality for Microsoft is that all the intervention forced on the user actually makes the opposition look a whole lot more attractive. And quadrupling the workload of legions of network administrators will have them looking for alternatives they may not have otherwise have bothered with.
      When I purchase a license it should give me the right to load a single copy anywhere I damn well choose, and I should not be treated like like a criminal if I later chose to delete that software and load it somewhere else.
      Microsoft you’ve lost touch and from where your sitting the only way to go is down.

      Vista Defective by Design and totally unsuitable for the intended purpose!

      raindog (383 days ago)
      reply
      8: i agree with all of that,
      i agree with all of that, drm is nothing but a waste of time and it is frustrating that the corporations view the customer as potential loss of sales and untrustworthy, its just the companies that are worried that the minority groups would steal their products and profits and they have to pull all stops to avoid any loss, its like TPM take the power from the customer and give it to the companies, you are just along for the ride…you mentioned that because of the drm that the cost of the products will go up, guess what will happen when prices go up; people don’t bother buying it and they just download it instead causing more issues, it would be nice to see large corporations do something that would protect the customer not their corporate dollar cause with out the customer you loose the dollar

      eggie (383 days ago)
      reply
      9: The hidden agenda of Microsoft
      I completely agree with this article, there is no reason to keep such atrocities like the DRM, Windows disadvantage and product activation lurking inside products we use.
      This is the result of a greedy scheme plotted by the big corporate vermin like the Music and Movie industry, the MPAAand RIAA, aided by Microsoft and Apple Computer.
      These mongrels are crying foul their artists must be paid for, when it is the otherwise, the musicians are paid a pittance for their work meanwhile the Music Labels exploit them, squizzing them of their earnings which goes to fulfil the pockets of the idlers executives of the Music Industry.
      To say ?Sales of music CDs are lowest because of the Internet, production of this medium should be halted altogether? these bastards are trying to be smart with the consumer by directing them to go to the Internet and buy an inferior quality track or album of MP3 music at the same price of a CD you can buy anywhere and probably cheaper than getting that piece of junk.
      Music in electronic format was freely available on the Internet, this file format did not harm the sale of music CDs anywhere in the world; the music industry saw an opportunity to make money out of it by selling it to the public.
      To access the Internet, everyone knows well, you must choose an Internet provider, sign a contract to access it and there you go, grab the content you really want, because you have paid for it already, you should not be conned into buying something that is part of the service, otherwise the Internet would not have survived because you have to pay extra for a content that as I said should be part of the service you, me and other people have paid for.
      As this was the opportunity to shake the chicken from her golden eggs, the music industry aided by a mob of gangsters took
      down all the music sites that offered the MP3 format to the masses and are trying to mislead the public into buying it,
      again, the MP3 format is of lower quality is much better to buy the CD because it has been manufactured with a superior
      quality and there is no need to argue about its merits.
      Games should run from hard disk when installed, no disc should be in the drive unless there is a need to re-install it again due to installation failure or because the hard disk has been reformatted; I find irritating to put the disc every time a game is invoked to run in the computer system.
      Microsoft has gone too far this time around.
      Microsoft is pretending its users are fooling around with the bloated and defective Operating System called Windows Vista,
      while spending $500 millions of Dollars to advertise it around the world, this waste of money should have been channeled into something worthy.
      Yet, $751 Australian Dollars for a defective software is an steal, first clean up this messy software of the nuisances that have been put into the software and sell more cheaper, the ultimate version should sell for no more than $75 – $100 the complete software NOT an upgrade, after all, Microsoft will launch another OS and say buy this, I find it totally unacceptable.
      Moreover, Microsoft should not dictate the consumer what to do with the software product, because it was paid for, you, me
      and other people have the right to install it on any machine you have provided that Microsoft ease the restrictions of installation of the product and the license should allow more than one computer it should be up to a maximum of five computers; and DON?T COME TO ME SAYING YOU CAN?T HAVE IT because it should reflect the times that family members has more than one computer in home these days.
      If Microsoft is not interested in its user base and just it wants your money, don?t buy it any product, why waste your money?
      If you can?t wait until this situation is resolved or are very desperate because is the latest product, you are a complete
      stupid, you have been brainwashed by the evil Microsoft.
      Not happy to make the lives of the consumers miserable, Microsoft has created DRM software for the mobile phones, How come this???
      If you don?t want DRM embedded in the Operating System and Mobile Phones don?t buy products that contain these draconian
      methods; don?t buy Windows Vi$ta, because this OS has nothing new just a cosmetic makeup to look like a prostitute with a new sexy dress ready to trap her unsuspecting customers to a life of misery and the Blue Screen Of Death.

      halcon (382 days ago)
      reply
      10: I also find it irritating
      I also find it irritating that you can’t play games on Linux.

      Now why is it you’re against Microsoft? Because you like Linux.

      Drewbee3 (382 days ago)
      reply
      11: That is actually not true.
      That is actually not true. 3D support in Linux works fine as long as you are using nVidia or ATI cards. There are hundred thousands of tiny games out there, which – I agree – usually cannot be compared with the latest shooters or action games.

      But even in this field Linux is not completely beeing ignored. iD Software is a major supporter of Linux games and most of their shooters work just fine with the Open Source OS. And there are others as well which only run on Linux (as far as I know), e.g. BZflag.

      And if anyone out there reading this is right now thinking about buying a PSP: Better check this out http://www.gp2x.com !!! My brother just bought one and is absolutely happy with it. Oh, no Linux skills required by the way.

      Seb1982 (379 days ago)
      reply
      12: You need to take a look at
      You need to take a look at Cedega http://www.transgaming.com Yes, you can plan tonnes of Windows titles on a Linux PC. I’ve also heard Mandrake Linux (Mandriva) will come bundled with it in the near future.

      Anonymouse (376 days ago)
      reply
      13: read the latest APC
      if you read the latest APC (june07) you will see that they couldn’t get any games working with this cedega. If a compute mag can’t do what chance has ‘normal’ users got.

      goldcoaster (292 days ago)
      reply
      14: Well stated
      Very well argued article, and I’m living proof. I’m spending the next two years weening myself off of all things Microsoft. However, I did buy Vista (came w/new system), but not before fully testing a pirated version that worked perfectly and even activated itself. Same goes for Office 2007 Enterprise.

      Microsoft reminds me of the guy who says: “If you think the last boss was hard on you, just wait….” No matter how many times customers have said reduce the cost and open their software, Microsoft just ratchets everything down tighter and tighter. The result is being felt: ordinary guys like me who grew up on Windows are looking for the Exit, and distros like Ubuntu and Freespire have repeatedly caught my attention.

      Mark my words, Microsoft won’t go down for the next few years, but just like IE suffered great waves of abandonment to Firefox, 2007 was the beginning of the end of Microsoft’s desktop dominance.

      yadayada (382 days ago)
      reply
      15: Copy protection – just say no!
      Does anyone remember Beagle Brothers?

      No?

      Hardly surprising now I guess, as this was in the heyday of the Apple II. But at the height of the money-wasting, one-sided battle between software pirates and manufacturers of anti-disk-copying schemes, Beagle Brothers came up with the idea of selling their (excellent and somewhat whimsical) software cheaply and not bothering with the whole copy-protection farce. They became very popular that way.

      Anyway, let me simply say that I won’t be buying Vi$ta any time soon. I’ve already had far too much of the whole activation crap, with XP.

      Killer42 (382 days ago)
      reply
      16: Is that all
      Software, movies, books are all copyrighted. Yes people break laws but that doesn’t mean the law or the implementation is flawed. You really need to review your logic.

      If you don’t like DRM then do as you say. Don’t by CD’s,DVD’s, and software which are protected.

      I guess I’ve been lucky. To date I’ve not found DRM software or media difficult to validate or use. I am sorry you’ve had such a difficult time of it.

      btw I’m surprised there are only 10 reason you’ve found not to buy Vista

      galen (380 days ago)
      reply
      17: I care less about DRM
      I care less about DRM itself. There are bigger isssues in MS-politics. They are demanding, that hardware manufacturers have to close the specs for the hardware in order to be allowed to work with Vista and DRM without reduced quality. That will mean – no drivers for Open-Source systems anymore! It’s the comunity, not the hardware vendors who make hardware actually work in Linux. And without specs it’s completely useless. This could mean an end to free software – hardware vendors won’t produce drivers for non-popular Linux and Linux will never became real alternative without newest hardware support. Right now, the lack of supported hardware in Linux is rather an old myth, but it will become more real that it ever was.

      Erik (378 days ago)
      reply
      18: “Why should it be MS’s place
      “Why should it be MS’s place to fight the battle against DRM? Imo, it’s between the consumers and the content providers.”

      OK– here’s the situation. You own a legal copy of, say, Bladerunner. You want to make a back-up copy. Or rip it to your iPod for mobile viewing.These are perfectly legal “fair uses” you might contemplate. Except that breaking the DRM to do these things is technically ILLEGAL under DMCA. So, either the content companies need to stop treating customers like criminals, or Congress should void DMCA.

      I think DRM IS going away; I think Steve Jobs already lofted a warning shot in the direction of the labels. Labels that stick with DRM will increasingly face the wrath on consumers and may face legal action from countries that prefer open formats, like un-DRM’ed MP3.

      tom b (378 days ago)
      reply
      19: I agree whole heartedly.
      I agree with it not being MS place to impose DRM on the consumer wasting resources like the unsuspecting consumer has nothing better to do with their money but continually upgrade they systems. It’s bad enough that it cost $75 to $100 to by the upgrade to XP not that long ago and you had to buy a license for each machine, I have 4 making it close to $400 to upgrade all of them, now MS expects the consumer to turn around and purchase vista for each machine. Does MS really think they will stay in the lead of preferred operating systems when it’s costing the consumer every couple of years? Now with vista and the built in DRM they have put another burr under the saddle of the average consumer. I’m not a criminal and have purchased the software I enjoy using, the DVDs I enjoy watching and the CDs I like to listen to, I resent being treated as if I break the laws just because I can.

      Lucy (377 days ago)
      reply
      20: F.Y.I. Vista Ultimate DVD
      F.Y.I. Vista Ultimate DVD costs P100 here in the the Philippines, thats roughly below $2.00 USD..

      Arpee Ong (377 days ago)
      reply
      21: Is it really that good?
      Sure, in East Europe you are also able to buy Vista Ultimate for 2$, but M$ is HAPPY about that. Yes, they need pirates to dominate in coutries where people cannot afford a legal Windows copy. It is actually called dumping – a huge company with vast resources selling their product much cheaper than any competitor on this market can. They lose some money at this point, but, when all the competitors are gone, the corp. becomes monopolist and can dictate its price. Dumping is illegan and forbidden, but with pirate`s help M$ can act as a victim while destroying alternatives.
      M$ actually needs pirates in developing countries – people should stick to Windows, they should know only one Operating System. Microsoft will neither fight pirates nor pursue private users in those countries. But they will pursue large companies and government organizations, will force them to buy license copies of windows becouse companies and state are the only ones able to pay in developing countries. And they will pay, for noone knows any alternatives. Thank you pirates!

      Erik (377 days ago)
      reply
      22: This is true! Back in ’98
      This is true! Back in ’98 Bill Gates himself told a crowd how M$ anticipates piracy and has a plan.. (muh ah ah)

      http://www.p2pnet.net/issue04/issues.html

      Bill Gates was talking to business school students at the University of
      Washington and was quoted in the the July 20, 1998, Fortune
      Magazine as saying:
      “Although about three million computers get sold every year in China,
      people don’t pay for the software. Someday they will, though. And as
      long as they’re going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They’ll
      get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect
      sometime in the next decade.”

      Anonymouse (376 days ago)
      reply
      23: DRM
      DRM – Digital Restrictions Manglement (tell it how it is).

      OK – friend of mine purchased (shock, horror) an audio CD by Coldplay and tried to play same in his car CD player. No luck. Appears to be infected with Copy Control software.

      I had looked at this little piece of software and decided I needed to come up with an answer. This I did, to the CD owners delight.

      Now he can play the un-protected copy in his car CD player, another un-protected copy at home and anywhere else he wants to – just like the good-old-days.

      Congratulations – big brother has created yet another pirate just so he can play the music he paid for in the first place.

      Honesty counts for nothing in this day and age (are you listening RIAA?)

      BK (370 days ago)
      reply
      24: It’s true. People will buy
      It’s true. People will buy CDs less and download legal files less, because the restrictions will be such that they think “I’m not going to jump through all these hoops”. They create pirates by behaving in such poor trust.

      It’s funny, isn’t it? Vista comes with draconian licencing, draconian hardware requirements and draconian DRM, and people are not “Wow”ing as much as MS anticipated. Record companies infect CDs and DVDs with DRM, and people buy them less, instead preferring to download illegal copies. Getting the picture? If you treat your consumers like garbage in order to attempt to control them, then the opposite may happen.

      Good luck Vista, I’ve weaned off MS in the last year in order to avoid you. Thanks MS, it was tolerable while it lasted.

      Willy (364 days ago)
      reply
      25: Companies are doing exactly what they should, customers aren’t
      You’re effectively saying “I like this 45$ shirt because of the pattern on it, but I know the material probably cost 5$ total, so I’ll steal it because I’m annoyed they made something I really want so expensive”. Hey guess what, numbnuts, if no one buys that shirt for a few months, the company reacts and the price goes down… If half of them are stolen, and the other half are paid for full price… the price stays the same, and, the next shirt they make costs more because they think people really want their brand so much they’re willing to steal for it!!

      I have no excess of love for Microsoft or any other big organization, but companies jobs are to try to get the most money for what they produce, and consumers try to get more for their money… Consumers that are unhappy should vote with their wallet and boycott anything they don’t like and go to the competition. Now, stop making up excuses to make yourselves feel better about stealing… Instead, get off yer asses and do what’s right, stop stealing, send in letters to companies showing you like their products but you don’t buy them because of so and so, or tell them what kind of arrangement you’d be ok with. But don’t also go copying/stealing! You’re the dumbasses thinking you will get any love from a company you are stealing from, no matter how much you disagree with their pricing scheme…

      The Only Person With Some Sense Here (255 days ago)
      reply
      26: Microsoft WANT you to pirate Vista
      Anoymous Person said:

      You’re the dumbasses thinking you will get any love from a company you are stealing from, no matter how much you disagree with their pricing scheme…

      –Anonymous Person

      Actually, Microsoft want people to pirate their products, and Vista especially by allowing them to install it without a key, a method which can be easily cracked if the system clock has been set to a time in the future.

      Why the piracy? Because if somebody pirates something, they’re likely to use it more, slowly become dependant on it, and eventually, be forced to purchase software that supports it. While they might not purchase Vista itself, they will purchase software that supports it–3rd party or from Microsoft themselves–and keep the food chain running.

      Microsoft know that over 1 in 5 installations are pirated. We know of someone who called tech-support about a package not working in Windows, and when MS-Tech support was told it wasn’t a legitimte version of XP, they said it was fine as long as they eventually bought a copy later.

      Most people don’t buy Windows because they choose to, they get it because they don’t know any better.

      Sceptic?

      Ask anyone who has only used Windows which one came first: Unix or Linux? Mac OS9 or Tiger? Or what’s the difference between KDE and Gnome? You’ll be surprised (or not) at how much people don’t know what exists outside the box.

      On the contrary, it is uncommon–but not impossible–for anyone to use GNU/Linux as their first OS. Just about everyone that I have met in the GNU/Linux department are either professional Windows users or developers, and have switched to GNU/Linux because they know it is better than other OSes in different aspects. It’s not the perfect OS, but it does have its advantages. Another bizaar trademark of most GNU/Linux users is that they really do know more about Windows than most Windows-based people, not everything about it, but a lot more. I know of many instances where GNU/Linux users are able to resolve a greater amount of Windows problems than Microsoft Certified technicians.

      Just like how the person who gave up smoking raves about good it feels to be free, most of these GNU/Linux “nuts” are highly experienced Windows users who feel more comfortable using the open-source alternative. This, unfortunately, is also a burden. Inexperienced Windows users are more comfortable sticking to Windows, where the more professional users outgrow their Microsoft counterpart and get in to GNU.

      SamArthurAllen (254 days ago)
      reply

      • #2453410

        Majority of new PCs ship without Windows Vista, Gates (unintentionally) rev

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to vista fault by design

        Microsoft’s Windows Vista operating system is proving far less popular with new PC buyers than Windows XP did during XP’s first year on the market, if statements by company chairman Bill Gates at this week’s Consumer Electronics Show are any measure..
        Gates, in Las Vegas Sunday, boasted that Microsoft has sold more than 100 million copies of Windows Vista since the OS launched last January.

        While the number at first sounds impressive, it in fact indicates that the company’s once dominant grip on the OS market is loosening. Based on Gates’ statement, Windows Vista was aboard just 39% of the PC’s that shipped in 2007.

        And Vista, in terms of units shipped, only marginally outperformed first year sales of Windows XP according to Gates’ numbers — despite the fact that the PC market has almost doubled in size since XP launched in the post 9-11 gloom of late 2001.

        Speaking five years ago at CES 2003, Gates said that Windows XP in its first full year on the market sold more than 89 million copies, according to a Microsoft record of the event.

        Assuming Gates is using consistent measurements across time — and any failure to do so would raise questions about Microsoft’s reporting tactics — first year Vista unit sales have exceeded first year XP unit sales by little more than 10%.

        Windows XP launched in October 2001. According To Gartner Dataquest, worldwide PC shipments in 2002 totaled 132.4 million units. Windows Vista launched in January of 2007 — a year in which PC shipments will have totaled 255.7 million units when the final tallies are in, according to Gartner.

        Gates’ statements at the 2003 and 2008 Consumer Electronics Shows thus reveal — calculating roughly — that Windows XP captured about 67% of the new PC market during its first year. Vista, by contrast, captured just 39%, or less than half, of new PC shipments in 2007.

        The numbers are no doubt troubling for Microsoft, which spent millions of dollars developing and promoting Windows Vista.

        Despite the efforts, many corporate and individual PC users have turned their backs on Vista — citing concerns about its resource requirements and compatibility with older applications.

        A survey published by InformationWeek last year revealed that 30% of corporate desktop managers have no plans to upgrade their company’s PC’s to Vista — ever.

        Contributing to Vista’s woes is the fact that new desktop alternatives to the Windows operating system have emerged in recent years — including Apple’s beefed up Leopard OS and open source offerings from Ubuntu and other Linux distributors.

        • #2453409

          readers reply to vista woes

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Majority of new PCs ship without Windows Vista, Gates (unintentionally) rev

          “When XP came out most consumers were using Windows 98 and really needed to upgrade. Today, people don’t have the same urge to get off of XP that they did to get off of Windows 98.

          Windows Vista is actually a great OS, comapred to Suse 10.3 and Leopard. It’s faster than XP and more stable too. I betaed XP and was happy with it for 7 years, but Suse 10.3 with KDE 4 and Vista are both better OSes than XP hands down.” Posted by thomas, 9/01/2008 12:53:17 PM
          Report this comment as offensive >>

          ——————————————————————————–
          “M$ Vista is an OS that nobody needs to migrate to. What is it’s “killer app”?” Posted by Brutusbeefcake, 9/01/2008 4:39:14 PM
          Report this comment as offensive >>

          ——————————————————————————–
          “It seems like M$ crawled into bed with the RIAA and MPAA and shoving DRM down the publics throat. The people are shoving it back, we don’t want DRM !
          Its time to give up the OLD business models of the 20th century and play nice with the consumer.” Posted by Speedy, 10/01/2008 3:16:55 AM
          Report this comment as offensive >>

          ——————————————————————————–
          “I find that the most annoying thing today when purchasing a new computer is that it is preinstalled with Vista. Take a budget laptop, brand new. Slower than a goat with only two legs with Vista. It takes 3 hours to download the SATA drivers, put them on a floppy disk, find a USB floppy disk drive and reinstall XP before I can use it without Windows Media player lagging when opening a word document. Its unacceptable.” Posted by Tim, 16/01/2008 4:36:37

        • #2453406

          well guys nothing short of total vindication

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to readers reply to vista woes

          Microsoft partner: Vista less secure than XP
          Security company Kaspersky claimed that Vista’s User Account Control (UAC), the system of user privileges that can be used to restrict users’ administrative rights, will be so annoying that users will disable it.

          Natalya Kaspersky, the company’s chief executive, said that without UAC, Vista will be less secure than Windows XP SP2. “There’s a question mark if Vista security has improved, or has really dropped down,” she said to our sister site ZDNet UK at the CeBIT show in Hanover last week.

          Kaspersky provides one of the scanning engines in ForeFront, Microsoft’s business security product.

          Arno Edelmann, business security product manager for Microsoft, said that Kaspersky’s claims were surprising. “We have a thriving community of partners, and Kasperky is one of our best partners,” Edelmann told ZDNet UK. “I find their statements a little strange because they have one of the best insights into Microsoft security products.”

          After being roundly criticised over its security strategy in the past, Microsoft has done a lot of work to improve its approach and has been touting Vista as its most secure operating system. But Kaspersky confirmed that her analysts had found five ways to bypass Vista’s UAC, and that malware writers will find more security holes.

          Kaspersky also added her voice to Symantec and McAfee complaints that PatchGuard, designed to protect the Vista kernel, is hindering security companies’ work.

          “PatchGuard doesn’t allow legitimate security vendors to do what we used to do,” said Kaspersky.

          Symantec has claimed that PatchGuard is hurting security vendors more than it was hurting malware writers. Bruce McCorkendale, a chief engineer at Symantec, said: “There are types of security policies and next-generation security products that can only work through some of the mechanisms that PatchGuard prohibits.”

          Eugene Kaspersky, the company founder, said last Thursday that while vendors had to interact with Vista legitimately, hackers were under no such constraints.

          “Cybercriminals seem not to care about Vista licensing,” said Eugene Kaspersky. “They don’t need to follow regulations or be certified by Microsoft — antivirus vendors do.”

        • #2453404

          Symantec picks away at Vista’s core

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to well guys nothing short of total vindication

          In a third and final report on Windows Vista, Symantec examined the security of the operating system core and found some vulnerabilities.

          Vista includes several barriers designed to prevent malicious code from gaining access to the operating system core or kernel. These enhancements are “quite substantial” and result in a “dramatic reduction” of the overall attack surface of the operating system, Symantec said in a report published on Tuesday in the US.

          “However, we have identified certain weaknesses in the kernel enhancements that may be leveraged by malicious code to undermine these improvements,” Matthew Conover, principal security researcher at Symantec, wrote in the report titled “Assessment of Windows Vista Kernel-Mode Security” (click for PDF).

          Vista, slated to be broadly available in January, will be the first new version of Windows for PCs since XP, which was released in 2001. Microsoft has put a strong emphasis on security in Vista and promotes it as its most secure version of Windows yet.

          Microsoft dismissed Symantec’s report as old news, because the research is based on a Vista build released several months ago. “Microsoft has been progressing toward the final release of the product and has released subsequent builds that have addressed the majority of the issues identified in this report,” a Microsoft representative said.

          The Symantec report focuses on the 64-bit version of Vista, which has more kernel security features than the 32-bit version. Conover looked at build 5365 of Vista, released in April, for the report. “There have been security-related changes in subsequent builds, and we expect more changes up until the final release candidate,” he noted.

          In the report, Conover claims it is possible to circumvent several of the techniques Microsoft designed to protect the Vista core from malicious code. For example, the “PatchGuard” feature that checks the integrity of key parts of the kernel code can be disabled, according to the report.

          Also, an attacker could disable a mechanism to block unsigned driver software to run on Vista PCs by “patching” core operating system files, Conover wrote. Malicious drivers pose a serious threat because they run at a low level in the operating system. Last week another researcher attacked the same Vista security feature at the Black Hat event in Las Vegas.

          Microsoft thanked Symantec for its feedback, even though the software giant called it “unusual for a partner to provide this amount of analysis and publish its findings on a beta version of Windows Vista.”

          Traditionally allies, Microsoft and Symantec are now going head-to-head in the security arena. In late May, Microsoft introduced Windows Live OneCare, a consumer security package, and the company is readying an enterprise product. Symantec has sued Microsoft, alleging misuse of data storage technology it licensed to the company.

          Earlier Symantec reports on the Vista kernel looked at the networking stack and user account control features of Vista.

        • #2453386

          Microsoft’s own antivirus fails to secure Vista

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Symantec picks away at Vista’s core

          Microsoft’s own antivirus software, Live OneCare, is unable to fully protect Vista users against viruses, and one of security firm McAfee’s antivirus software packages also fails to protect users, according to independent research released Friday.

          Security news Web site Virus Bulletin, backed by a team of security researchers based in Oxfordshire, U.K., tested 15 antivirus software packages used by businesses and designed specifically for Vista, Microsoft’s newest operating system. The packages were released to businesses two months ago.

          The researchers tested whether each of the antivirus products would stop a set of viruses known to be currently circulating. In order to be awarded a pass, the software had to detect all the viruses with no false positives.

          But out of the 15, four failed: Microsoft Live OneCare 1.5; McAfee VirusScan Enterprise version 8.1i; G DATA AntiVirusKit 2007 v17.0.6353; and Norman VirusControl v5.90. The other 11, including software from CA, Fortinet, F-Secure, Kaspersky, Sophos and Symantec, detected all the viruses.

          “With the number of delays that we’ve seen in Vista’s release, there’s no excuse for security vendors not to have got their products right by now,” said John Hawes, technical consultant at Virus Bulletin. “In these days of hourly updates, it’s always a surprise and a disappointment to see major products missing them (viruses). Vista cannot fend off today’s malware without help from security products. It certainly looks like people upgrading to the new platform are going to need additional security solutions.”

          Joe Telafici, vice president of operations for McAfee’s Avert Labs, told ZDNet UK that, in his opinion, Virus Bulletin had not used its latest antivirus updates, causing the failure. He said McAfee would issue further results with the updated software.

          Microsoft pledged to improve Live OneCare. “We are looking closely at the methodology and results of the test to ensure that Windows Live OneCare performs better in future tests and, most importantly, as part of our ongoing work to continually enhance Windows Live OneCare,” a company representative told ZDNet UK.

          On the subject of Vista, the Microsoft representative added: “It’s important to remember that no software is 100 percent secure. Microsoft is working to keep the number of security vulnerabilities that ship in our products to a minimum, through our Security Development Lifecycle process, and that work is paying off. The release of Windows Vista is the first Microsoft operating system to use the Security Development Lifecycle from start to finish and was tested more, prior to shipping, than any previous version of Windows.”

        • #2453382

          Vista still vulnerable

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to Microsoft’s own antivirus fails to secure Vista

          VULNERABILITIES in Windows Vista will plague users in coming months and years, a prominent security researcher warns, despite its security improvements over predecessor XP.

          Security bug-hunters are now turning their attention to the new platform and users should not expect Vista to be immune to attack, said Marc Maiffret, founder and chief hacking officer of eEye Digital Security.

          “I don’t think it’s a huge leap forward,” he says. “Here we are a few weeks after Vista’s been released to retail and there’s already been five or six different Vista-specific vulnerabilities.”

          Last week eEye discovered a vulnerability in Microsoft’s Office 2007 software which it claims can be exploited in Vista.

          But Mr Maiffret does not blame the software giant for the mismatch between the market’s expectations about Vista’s security and the less palatable reality. “There’s no other software company that does more to secure their code than Microsoft,” Mr Maiffret says. “It’s weird to me that a lot of people think there should be this thing that we reach at some point where the operating system is impenetrable… I don’t think that is ever going to happen.”

          Matt Thomlinson, Microsoft’s senior director of security engineering, says Vista is a vast improvement on XP. He highlights the system’s handling of system memory as a big step forward.

          Protective measures that detect the abuse of a computer’s memory by an attacker have been written into the operating system, and Vista’s processes are now loaded randomly into memory for security purposes.

          By randomly placing system files into memory while booting, the operating system is harder to attack, he says.

          Some digital attacks require the perpetrator to know precisely where certain processes are located in memory. By randomising the layout of the operating system in a computer’s memory, Mr Thomlinson hopes Vista will sidestep an entire class of attacks.

          “The idea here is . . . we want our customers to get the advantage of natural variation. Every Windows box looks just a little bit different to an attacker,” he says. “So if somebody is writing (attack code) and they’re depending on something being in a certain place, it’s not going to work, or it will only work one half of 1 per cent of the time.”

          Chris Spencer, Australian vulnerability researcher and organiser of the Sydney-based Ruxcon security conference, is more upbeat than Mr Maiffret when assessing the improvements to Windows. “The heap management system’s been improved, so it’s going to be a lot harder to exploit vulnerabilities,” he says. “Not impossible, but a lot harder.”

          Like Mr Maiffret, Mr Spencer predicts bugs will still be found in the operating system, but hackers and researchers like himself will have to work much harder to transform security glitches into meaningful attacks. “It’s going to be a massive improvement,” he says.

          Hear more of Patrick Gray’s interview with Marc Maiffret on his podcast at http://www.itradio.com.au/security.

    • #2453273

      even ms execs admit vista was a dud

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to vista is a DUD ! (wham baam thankyou maam!)

      You’re Not Alone: Microsoft Execs Struggled with Vista
      Some of Microsoft’s own top executives had trouble getting Windows Vista to work in the weeks after its release, according to company e-mails unsealed today.
      Gregg Keizer, Computerworld
      Thursday, February 28, 2008 3:15 PM PST

      Recommend this story?Yes
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      Microsoft officials, including a member of the Microsoft board of directors, voiced some of the same complaints about missing drivers and crippled graphics that users have raised since Vista debuted in January 2007.

      They had trouble getting Windows Vista to work in the weeks after its release, according to company e-mails unsealed today.

      Steven Sinofsky, the Microsoft senior vice president who took charge of Windows development the day after Vista’s retail release, was among the top officials who said some of their hardware wouldn’t work with the new operating system. “My home multi-function printer did not have drivers until 2/2 and even then [they] pulled their 1/30 drivers and released them (Brother),” said Sinofsky in an e-mail dated Feb. 18, 2007.

      “People who rely on using all the features of their hardware will not see availability for some time, if ever, depending on the [manufacturer],” Sinofsky continued in the message. “The built-in drivers never have all the features but do work. For example, I could print with my Brother printer and use it as a stand-alone fax. But network setup, scanning, print to fax must come from Brother.”

      Sinofsky’s e-mail was one of hundreds made public Wednesday by U.S. District Court Judge Marsha Pechman as part of a lawsuit that claims Microsoft deceived buyers when it promoted PCs as “Windows Vista Capable” in the run-up to the 2006 holiday season. The lawsuit, which was granted class-action status last Friday, charges that the Vista Capable logo was slapped on systems that could run only the lowest-priced and lowest-powered version, Windows Vista Home Basic. That edition omits several of the most heavily promoted features of Vista, including Aero, the revamped graphical interface that in some ways resembles the look and feel of Apple Inc.’s Mac OS X.

      • #2924627

        vista woefull performance

        by gsaravin9 ·

        In reply to even ms execs admit vista was a dud

        well its nearly august 2008 &vista just joke!!

        • #2942518

          has anyone done any testing on windows 7

          by gsaravin9 ·

          In reply to vista woefull performance

          forget vista it has gone of the way the dodo has like windows millenium.
          Ive heard some good things re windows 7 & i’ve done some testing on the side.Let me be the first to say it is a better product than vista & is a logical step to to upgrade from xp to
          windows 7.I have found w 7 to be more stable than vista,performance wise it is an imrovement
          on xp.Other refinements make it a good system to have,
          mick

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