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  • #2266277

    Vista Smacked down by headset

    Locked

    by druuzil ·

    Here is a prime example of why Vista is crap: I was trying to setup Teamspeak so I could chat with my fellow gamers in EVE Online. By simply plugging in the microphone jack, Vista went to a lovely blue screen of death. Windows would not even load again with the microphone plugged in.

    Awesome.

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    • #2522936

      Well, I’m not surprised by this at all

      by why me worry? ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      I just wonder how many suckers have yet to see Vista blow up in their face because they rushed to buy this piece ‘o’ crap from Micro$oft.

      • #2591513

        Well…..

        by josh_trow ·

        In reply to Well, I’m not surprised by this at all

        I had no trouble using a headset in Counter Strike. Once I swapped the audio output to the headphone/mic setting instead of speakers, it all went well. Even with parts swapping, all kinds of programs, and other fun stuff like that, I haven’t bluscreened since I tried to replace default video drivers for nVidia with the betas from the site (not long after it came out, sometime in March I think).

        • #2582699

          But is that

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to Well…..

          Just because of your hardware
          Which may not tell us any thing
          As far as vista is concerned

      • #2591368

        Many “suckers” as you so quaintly put it…

        by ivefallen ·

        In reply to Well, I’m not surprised by this at all

        have TRULY yet to see Vista “blow up in their faces”. Count me amongst one of those “suckers”. It’s okay if you don’t particularly like Vista or Microsoft that’s cool. Really. No one expects you to. But you refering to those who choose to use Vista as “suckers” is very 8th grade.

        • #2592795

          No Suckers here

          by neil higgins ·

          In reply to Many “suckers” as you so quaintly put it…

          Been using business edition for a while.True,I had to get Vista audio codecs,from a well known site,to get sound.But so far all is well.
          No Jack-in-the-box antics here.

        • #2592013

          customers have little choice….

          by davidfacer ·

          In reply to No Suckers here

          Suckers, you call em? That implies that end-users actually have a choice. The week before Micro$oft released Vista, they offered a buy-back deal to all the wholesalers in Australia on all existing stocks of XP etc. This was not taken up by all dealers, but enough did to make finding a legal XP licence very difficult to find come Monday morning when retail Vista was released. If the only thing on offer is Vista, where is the choice? Just for this action I detest MS and all it stands for.

        • #2592003

          yes they do

          by ragwing ·

          In reply to customers have little choice….

          There is always a choice, there are many other O/S out there and some a lot better and free as far as I am concerned.
          Download and try one of them out.

        • #2591977

          Plenty of choices available…..

          by quasar kid ·

          In reply to customers have little choice….

          The last time I checked, you live in a free country. If you don’t like Microsoft then don’t but their products. Very simple.

        • #2590788

          Nothing is free

          by bill ·

          In reply to Plenty of choices available…..

          Microsoft has choked or killed off any real competition. What they produce is pure crap.

          1) ‘C’ is WORSE than Basic. If you had been around you would know Basic was attacked mostly for being ”unstructured”. ‘C’ DOES NOT INCLUDE forced size/type checking, leading to ENDLESS cases of BUFFER OVERFLOW. (means Viruses and Trojans and crashes) Since ”structure” constrains the programmer, and ‘C’ DOES NOT, it should be thrown away before even starting the next generation. Just one example – voice. It’s now THIRTY YEARS and we still can’t talk to these machines. Go back and read early literature and ask yourself what went wrong. I say it’s mostly microsoft.

          2) Intel designed their current processors with amazing error-trapping capability. Microsoft, for god only knows what conceivable reason, choose to run RING-ZERO meaning NO ADMINISTRATIVE PROTECTION IS EVEN POSSIBLE. This isn’t just incompetent design – it is sheer lunacy. Gates is an idiot. A wealthy idiot.

          3) The ‘average’ computer buyer is totally computer illiterate. So he buys whatever advertising pitch sounds convincing. A con man like Gates, like generations of snake oil salesmen before him, does well when the audience has no tools to evaluate what’s being hawked.

          4) standards? You think having ONE monopoly in charge means you get standards? They continue to obsolete their own stuff. Look at multimedia – there are over 300 formats, with new ones every week. In twenty years, will you even be able to play whatever you create today? Wanna bet?

          So yes, you’re ”free’ to choose. But you had virtually no say in WHAT you can choose from.

        • #2590717

          I’m pretty sure Quasar Kid wasn’t talking about MS.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Nothing is free

          The way I read it, I think Quasar Kid was suggesting you buy something that doesn’t come from Microsoft. QK says you have the choice to not buy MS software, and you start complaining about how bad MS software is and act as though MS software is the entire lineup of choices.

          It looks like a tremendous communication disconnect.

        • #2590696

          Without disagreeing with anything you say about Gates…

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Nothing is free

          I do feel obligated to note that personal attacks do [u]nothing[/u] to improve the quality of software he produces. Business competition, if such existed, would.

        • #2591812

          Why the rant about C?

          by meski.oz ·

          In reply to Nothing is free

          1 Ok, c doesn’t do type checking, there’s this nice language, c++ that does. Buffer overflow? guard your inputs. Or use the secure libraries. Or both.

          2 Not everything runs at ring 0, user code certainly doesn’t. Some driver code seems to move between the rings from one version of Windows to another – supposedly for performance reasons. Google the net for which and why.

          3 yes

          4 Which explains Quicktime, mp3 … What do they have to do with Microsoft? I doubt you’ll be able to play them in 5,years, let alone 20. Protection only makes it worse. Example: I have 2 PDA’s – Microsoft’s secure book format requires that you register the reader on them. Fine. But the newer of the 2 refuses to register because its an unsupported (Mobile 5) OS. Microsoft cant even make their reader work with their new OS. There are ways around their secure format, or I’d be more annoyed.

        • #2591810

          meski.oz, re: file formats

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Nothing is free

          “[i]4 Which explains Quicktime, mp3 … What do they have to do with Microsoft? I doubt you’ll be able to play them in 5,years, let alone 20. Protection only makes it worse. Example: I have 2 PDA’s – Microsoft’s secure book format requires that you register the reader on them. Fine. But the newer of the 2 refuses to register because its an unsupported (Mobile 5) OS. Microsoft cant even make their reader work with their new OS. There are ways around their secure format, or I’d be more annoyed.[/i]”

          I have a hard time believing you aren’t aware of WMA and WMV formats (for instance). The reference to multimedia formats was only an example, too — which means that you should be able to extend from there to encompass Microsoft’s piss-poor legacy support for older MS Office file formats.

        • #2582424

          Why pick on ‘C’

          by Anonymous ·

          In reply to Nothing is free

          C is a very powerful language, but with power comes the responsibility to use it correctly. Think C is bad, try Assembly. I use it all the time and prefer both to Java.

        • #2582708

          Hate to tell you, but…

          by java_ho ·

          In reply to Nothing is free

          The ‘C’ language was developed as the native language of Unix (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_(programming_language)), and there’s gobs of C code in all the modern OS’s and their applications, especially as you get “close to the metal,” or at the level where the OS and the hardware interact.

          The C language gives the developer complete control over bit-level operations, and it’s therefor possible to create, using C, an application which is elegant and efficient or a ghastly mess – or anything in between.

          It’s the person(s) coding and testing the applications, not the language, that’s the problem.

          Add in the market forces that demand ever-more-glorious UI’s and applications, RIGHT F*CKING NOW, and the likelihood that some of them will suck gets pretty high.

        • #2591923

          Hm.. where is that long list of vendors selling complete systems with no OS

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Plenty of choices available…..

          Oh yeah.. Dell, and a very few other complete system retailers mostly outside the United States.

          Your both right though:
          – There is a long list of other perfectly viable OS available and some at no financial cost though you’ll pay with a bit of time to learn them.
          – There is little choice in buying a new system without a Microsoft OS on it and regular home users are not going to be building there own rig from selected parts.

          For the geek who’s building his own box, the future is wide open. For the home user that just wants there Vaio to turn on and go; best of luck betty home user.

        • #2582697

          Very old argument

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to Plenty of choices available…..

          That one and of no help to a person who has a problem with vista and wants to now use XP
          But cannot find somewhere to by it

          It also says that people have choice
          When in fact some people may have none

          It also ignores the fact that many people do have no choice when is comes to some computers, Microsoft products and what they may have available for that persons needs

          It is a stupid statement made be someone who cannot think of anything more intelligent to say

        • #2591704

          I note that you said “little choice”.

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to customers have little choice….

          Most of the replies below have branched off the first reply, which was phrased as though you had said “no choice”, which you did not. I think you’re right, and Microsoft would be a more useful entity to the market if it offered, and continued to support, XP, 2000, possibly NT 4.0 — the OSes I frequently see mentioned in discussions of the new version of Windows, with unneeded “improvements”. Market forces do not require Microsoft to do that, though, which is the fault of the market.

        • #2592650

          “the fault of the market”

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to I note that you said “little choice”.

          Technically, it’s the fault of the way market forces are corrupted by externalities like the massive body of corporate law in the US. I’m sure you know that — but I figured I’d make it more explicit.

        • #2592630

          I don’t necessarily agree with that.

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to “the fault of the market”

          I consider “the market” identical to “the populace”, meaning “the voters”, thus “the massive body of corporate law in the US” is only an “externality” to the extent that it is created without our consent. We know this is happening, and have [b]some[/b] recourse. No solution has yet been implemented, but it is noteworthy that [b]the problem[/b] was implemented iteratively, and could be (HINT) [b]rolled back[/b] in similar fashion, by demanding that our representatives repeal laws that provide such privileges to corporations. The failure of the populace to understand this, and to act accordingly as citizens, is responsible for the dearth of good options experienced, by the same populace, in our roles as “the market”. Government of the People, by the People, for the People, means some personal responsibility for one’s role, or lack thereof, in the body of law that governs us.

        • #2592564

          externalities

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to “the fault of the market”

          “[i]I consider “the market” identical to “the populace”, meaning ‘the voters’, thus ‘the massive body of corporate law in the US’ is only an ‘externality’ to the extent that it is created without our consent.[/i]”

          That’s a bit like saying slavery was okay in the early 1800s because voters allowed it to be legal. Anything that imposes restrictions on the market by means other than the economic (in otherwords, by external means) is, by definition, an externality — and anything that violates rights is going to be resistant to elimination through exercise of rights.

        • #2592544

          Shirley, you can’t be serious!

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to “the fault of the market”

          “I consider “the market” identical to “the populace”, meaning ‘the voters’, thus ‘the massive body of corporate law in the US’ is only an ‘externality’ to the extent that it is created without our consent.”

          [i]That’s a bit like saying slavery was okay in the early 1800s because voters allowed it to be legal. Anything that imposes restrictions on the market by means other than the economic (in other words, by external means) is, by definition, an externality — and anything that violates rights is going to be resistant to elimination through exercise of rights.[/i]

          I’m going to have to reply from home, where I have the time to be appropriately careful, but for now, I’ll just say that I strongly disagree because the market for x86-compatible computers has [b]much more[/b] say in these “externalities” (or could, if we exercised our rights more vigorously) than [b]slaves[/b] in pre-1860’s Americas.

        • #2592440

          I wasn’t necessarily using the term “externality” correctly.

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to “the fault of the market”

          “I consider “the market” identical to “the populace”, meaning ‘the voters’, thus ‘the massive body of corporate law in the US’ is only an ‘externality’ to the extent that it is created without our consent.”

          [i]That’s a bit like saying slavery was okay in the early 1800s because voters allowed it to be legal. Anything that imposes restrictions on the market by means other than the economic (in other words, by external means) is, by definition, an externality — and anything that violates rights is going to be resistant to elimination through exercise of rights.[/i]

          We differ on use of externality, which I should have Googled before using. The definitions I’ve found for “market externalities” all include the phrase “side effect”, and do not have the implication I assumed, which was more limited to the common use of the word “external”, as outside oneself and sphere of influence. I still maintain that these corporate laws we’re discussing are not entirely beyond the power and responsibility of the units of the market, but certainly, as consumers of operating systems, we have less direct impact on those laws than those laws have on our array of options. Basically, I concede the point, and if the word “slavery” was hyperbole, it served the purpose of sending me off to look up the exact meaning of the word I parroted.

        • #2592407

          In retrospect . . .

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to “the fault of the market”

          . . . while I knew what I meant, I did a piss-poor job of explaining it, anyway. Let’s just chalk up the entire experience to poor communication and call it a day.

        • #2591758

          When I hear or read about Vista…

          by zidamon ·

          In reply to Many “suckers” as you so quaintly put it…

          the only thing that comes to mind is: WOW! Wealth Of Waste!
          I get the distinct feeling Microsoft is trying their best to deliver a bunch of crap, so that we all can waste our money (and patience for that mather)on the next ‘new’ OS of Windows. I’m still using XP Pro and it seems to hold up after a ton of servicepacks, hotfixes and updates. Maybe they should let Windows be build from scratch up by a group of Wizz-kids, hackers, crackers and viruswriters. At least they seem to know what the’re doing!

        • #2582415

          Built from the ground up…

          by Anonymous ·

          In reply to When I hear or read about Vista…

          by a bunch of wizz-kids, hackers,crackers and virus writters. Does name Linus Torvalds ring any bells?

        • #2582694

          How do you know

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to When I hear or read about Vista…

          That the staff of microsoft
          Aren?t group of Wiz-kids, hackers, crackers and virus writers?
          Or are they just the bad ones
          Of course the quality of Wiz-kids, hackers, crackers and virus writers is an unknown factor

        • #2582698

          Well if they choose vista

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to Many “suckers” as you so quaintly put it…

          And it does blows up in there face
          Are they then suckers

      • #2590809

        I’m not surprised either

        by intrepi ·

        In reply to Well, I’m not surprised by this at all

        I’m not surprised as EVERY version of Windows has had the same issues everytime a new version was released. So, it shouldn’t be a surprise for anyone as Vista is new, it has had fixes, it will continue to have fixes and updates. It may well be the reason most reviewers giving reviews on Vista advised everyone to wait until SP1 came out. Vista is not a perfect OS, it shouldn’t be considered as one. Regardless of who buys it or why, doesn’t give you the right to be obnoxious nor condescending with your immature remarks as everyone has been a “sucker” at some point in their lives, you are no exception. If you don’t like Windows, don’t buy it or use it as it’s not a perfect OS but it’s not a piece of crap either. If you can, try and make some kind of constructive contribution to the forum even if it’s constructive criticism.
        To make these kind of adolescent posts only shows your questionable mentality and disrespect for people you don’t know.

        • #2591202

          An analogy

          by brian.mills ·

          In reply to I’m not surprised either

          To star this off, I will not profess to be an expert on anything. I will also admit that I have yet to use Vista, so I have no personal experience to pull from. But from the threads I’ve read on here and elsewhere about experiences with Vista, it sounds like Microsoft released a beta version product and called it finished.

          I’ll try to explain the way things look to me with an analogy about cars. Let’s say Vista is the newest model of car from General Motors, and 2% of them suddenly burst into flames while driving down the highway 3 months after being purchased. That would be grounds for a massive recall to correct the problem, but with the software industry, we just say “It’s not a perfect OS. All new software has bugs.”

          I’m sorry, but with the R&D capacity that Microsoft has at their disposal, and the time spent developing Vista, there shouldn’t be so many problems happening. I’d expect buggy software from the open-source community, where most of the programmers are unpaid volunteers working in their spare time, but not from a multi-billion dollar company like Microsoft. The only reason they aren’t held to a higher standard is because of the market dominance they have achieved through cutthroat business tactics that have nearly squashed all competitors. Microsoft hasn’t taken our choices away, but it have seriously limited the available choices and made it rather difficult to choose anything but its products.

          My next computer will be a Mac. At least their software works nearly flawlessly with their hardware. Of course, they do have the benefit of only using a small subset of all the hardware available. Perhaps the downfall of the Windows PC is the same freedom of choice in hardware that enables users to have a choice and not be stuck with what one manufacturer decides to use.

          Okay, I’m done with my rant now. Flame me all you want. I’ve simply stated my opinion, and I make no claims of it being any better or worse than anyone elses.

        • #2591100

          Try “stalling, in the parking lot” for an analogy.

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to An analogy

          The stipulation in your End User License Agreement that Microsoft software is not fit for “mission-critical applications” ought to dissuade you from taking it on the analog of a highway in the first place. Instead, you are told, right after opening your software, that what you have purchased with your hard-earned money is analogous to a go-cart. Stalling periodically is still a malfunction, and still good reason to buy a different brand of analogous go-cart, but Microsoft never was good enough to drive on the analogous highway, and the analogy to cars that “burst into flames” overstates the importance of the malfunction, as well as the maximum possible utility offered by Windows; even if it did not periodically stall for no reason, it just was never as good as the highway driving analogy implicitly gives it credit for!

        • #2591069

          Perhaps

          by brian.mills ·

          In reply to Try “stalling, in the parking lot” for an analogy.

          Since I have no Vista experience of my own, I cannot vouch for what the EULA states, but it seems a bit odd that Microsoft would sell a “Business” edition of their OS and say that it’s not fit for mission-critical applications.

          I think when I came up with the car analogy, I was having a flashback to the old OS airline analogy, where the Windows airplane burst into flames at 20,000 feet or so. At least only 2% of Windows cars burst into flames in my analogy. That leaves 98% guzzling gas on the interstate 🙂

          Maybe Microsoft should put their Home Server team to work on improving Vista. I’ve been in the beta for it for a couple months, and it seems to work better than some release software that the company has put out. Or maybe I’m just not trying hard enough to break it.

        • #2582370

          The EULA in short verse

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Perhaps

          It basically states; you can’t take us for court if you choose to use our product and loose information because of it.

          It’s a cover there butt clause. They’ll sell it and build solutions off it for high end business but the lawers make sure the license terms state “hey, it will probably break and may not be suited to your mission critical needs; we told you up front and you still used it so you can’t sue.”

          That’s the legal side of it though. If you focus on the product instead of the legal fluff, your right about one thing; MS has the resources to produce a better system and with Vista, they even showed a reaction to a profit margin threat they can’t buy or bully out of the market (“see, we included security and everything this time”). Truth is that they’ll need to become far more motivated (harder kicked in the wallet) before they produce somthing better than “good enough for to make a buck” quality products.

          In our industry, product quality rarely wins out over marketing and business practices. There’s a long standing tradition of squashing the better technical solution in favour of the pretty wrapping paper. That’s a big reason all those crazy FOSS folks keep popping up.

        • #2582691

          And then we have WGA

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to Try “stalling, in the parking lot” for an analogy.

          That makes more unfit for “mission-critical applications”
          Cool move that one by MS

        • #2582548

          Its why I have a second computer

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to An analogy

          I have a second computer I use for testing out stuff in . . BUT its not WINDOWS ! Its UBUNTU LINUX ! . . . And I load things like Printers which people say it will not work . . TA DAAA ! it works ! . . OLD Epson C40UX works took a bit of time for the drivers part to load the correct driver and install it but the Printer Prints like a scalded cat . . I made it print the same 26 point letters in 4 corners of the same page in Open source Word Processing its was something like this qwetcxv in 26 point ! So I send it home with them and write down the link to the Page where they need to go download the DRIVERS for Windows plus install it and every body is happy . . I hope ! ( old Computer is a 900 megahertz with 756 megs of PC-133 ram )

        • #2582365

          I think my printer started working in *nix

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Its why I have a second computer

          I keep spotting an “HP Unix imaging deamon” load message during boot but I’ve not been motivated to investigate further.

          It’s a Dell 810 Printer/Scanner so perhaps it’s HP hardware inside. Maybe it’s only the scanner being detected. Maybe support will turn up with the Dell now using Ubuntu.

        • #2582689

          Try a drive caddy

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to Its why I have a second computer

          Its cheeper than another computer
          Just put any os of your choice on as many as you like
          Hard drives are also cheaper that computers
          Or you may want to try a boot manager
          Cost zero those ones but hard drive space may be a problem

        • #2582414

          Then

          by Anonymous ·

          In reply to An analogy

          you will be using an OS developed by a bunch of people in their free time and by a bunch of University professors. Max OS X is a Mach III distribution of Linux with BSD extensions. The source code is available on project Darwin.

        • #2582362

          Isn’t it BSD kernel specifically?

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Then

          I was under the impression from what I’ve read and mucking around in the terminal underneath the pretty osX makeup that it was a BSD open license running behind a closed proprietary GUI layer.

          Last I checked on Darwin, it wasn’t so active anymore. I’m actually a little sad about that, I was looking forward to installing it on a system to play with but the only thing I could see similar to osX was the BSD back end.

        • #2581160

          Actually, you’re both wrong about the kernel.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Isn’t it BSD kernel specifically?

          MacOS X (and, thus, Darwin) uses a Mach 3 microkernel with the core of the FreeBSD OS sorta lacquered around it.

        • #2582688

          That of course

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to Then

          Tells us very little

          Since the amount of time they may have
          Or their skill level
          And how much interest they have in the project
          There are more

          Are all unknown

        • #2582692

          But is vista

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to I’m not surprised either

          Any better on its release than XP was on its release
          As far as what you are talking about

      • #2580182

        Probally as many as you racially abused!

        by now left tr ·

        In reply to Well, I’m not surprised by this at all

        I think!

    • #2591507

      Vista and microphone

      by ronnievr ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      Try to blame something else – not Vista. I’ve been using Vista for 3 months now without any problems – and my microphone is also plugged in.

      • #2591493

        taking your crap out of the so-called crapola vista

        by amj2010 ·

        In reply to Vista and microphone

        we are also trying vista and mostly of the time it is the old hardware to blame… for isntance a webcam etc.

        • #2582683

          Wow again

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to taking your crap out of the so-called crapola vista

          Another astounding conclusion you have only old hardware problems with vista

          So vista has no problems with new hardware
          And it shows that vista has no other problems

          So all the people who do are telling lies

          Wow fantastic an OS that has problems with old hardware
          But if XP has no problems what must that say about Vista

          Guess that?s not important

          Another smart person wow

      • #2590875

        Now dwell on this as I’d really like an answer, an honest one

        by intrepi ·

        In reply to Vista and microphone

        I’m very curious as to when and at what point would you consider Vista is to blame ? No offense but do you actually believe NOBODY out there has any problems with Vista ? Now, consider this carefully, do you think you have used, tried or had the same computer, running the same hardware with the same software as everyone out there ? The point of these questions are to make you realize that just because YOU have had no problems doesn’t mean you are qualified to know if Vista is to blame or not. So, try and refrain from making assumptions and telling us that we should blame something else as you DON’T
        know anything about his system or what is to blame. Making guesses without facts just shows your ignorance. Not everyone has a problem with Vista nor was anything like that implied. I’m glad you have had no problems, I just wish everyone had the same experience as you have but then we all know Vista is not a perfect OS and is a long way from it.

        • #2590819

          Setting the bar?

          by larry the security guy ·

          In reply to Now dwell on this as I’d really like an answer, an honest one

          “we all know Vista is not a perfect OS and is a long way from it.”

          I think it’s pretty safe to say that there is only one such beast, and that is a No. 2 pencil; the only mistakes it makes are caused by the user and are easily correctable. Expecting Vista, or any other OS, to be perfect is an exercise in futility, IMHO.

        • #2590802

          I do beg to differ as it’s a matter of opinion

          by intrepi ·

          In reply to Setting the bar?

          It seems that it always comes down to the user and I’m just not buying into that as Microsoft was the one who developed the certified driver program. They also told us that Vista would not run with some software and hardware which Vista would refuse to load or run. So, a certain amount of blame lies with the user for not checking to make sure it was in compliance but then Microsoft should stop making claims as to how secure and reliable their software is. If a driver causes Vista to crash, what is the difference between a driver or a virus, the result is pretty much the same. Some credit has to fall with Microsoft, Vista, the hardware manufacturer and the user but let’s not lay it all off on the user.

        • #2591901

          Well Larry,

          by mjwx ·

          In reply to Setting the bar?

          The no. 2 pencil suffers a severe structural flaw related to the lead breaking under moderate amounts of pressure such as that caused in the normal occurrence of “dropping”, this flaw could be fixed by adding some kind shock-absorber or padding but the basic flaw of graphite would still remains.

          Only kidding, I completely agree with you about there being no perfect OS and the user being by far its biggest flaw. I saw an opportunity for a joke and took it 🙂 . This being said I do have this to add.
          Time it took me to first break:
          XP – 5 days.
          Vista – 3 hours.
          This was getting it to the point of blue screening. Although I do know a lot more about breaking stuff now than I did 5 years ago.

        • #2582428

          Time to break,

          by Anonymous ·

          In reply to Well Larry,

          I have you beat. It took me 30 minutes to break Vista. However, it also took about that time to break openSuse 10.2 and Fedora 7 test 4. The time it takes to break a system depends on the kind of user you are. A power user will break the OS faster than a standard user and a beginner will break the OS faster than a standard user because they do not know what to do or not to do. A power user will try things that a sane user will not. A standard user just uses the computer and the software in the way the code was written.

          My complaint with Vista is that it broke every piece of software that I had, except Office 2003. I also have the standard complaints about the UAC, which I am not dumb enough to turn it off because it saved me once.

          But Vista does have problems, one of the more serious ones is a memory leak. I installed the OS and nothing more and let it idle 2 days. The RAM used crept in that time from 39% of 2 gigs to 69%. MS asserted that it must be the programs also installed that cause the leak; this was after I told them that only the OS was installed.

        • #2582679

          But we can say

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to Setting the bar?

          That if it has problems I guess you said that it does
          It shows how good Microsoft?s testing program is not that good
          Or is it
          An argument can be made that
          If it has a problem the testing was not good enough
          Also just how may problems should we accept to make it good enough
          It also shows how what we expect from software creators is now so much less than what we expect from others
          Fantastic we now can expect all software to have problems
          Amazing that they are allowed to sell it

          Amazing a product that has an acceptable error level

      • #2582686

        Wow

        by ghostbrowser ·

        In reply to Vista and microphone

        An astounding conclusion you have no problems with vista
        So vista has no problems
        So all the people who do are telling lies
        Wow fantastic

        You are so smart

    • #2591473

      Blame those who are at fault

      by verd1 ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      Edited: I have nothing to say

    • #2591467

      New sound technology has sensing jacks.

      by plangham ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      You may think that it should be impossible for you to crash a computer by plugging in speakers or a microphone, however, the new Realtek and other brands of sound chips have auto type sensing jacks. When a mic or speakers/headphones are plugged in a window pops up on your screen asking you to tell it what you just plugged in. It is this interface that is crashing your system. You most likely have the incorrect driver for your sound device installed. Check with the manufacturer (most likely realtek) for the updated driver for vista.

      • #2590823

        I have seen it on a few

        by jackie40d1 ·

        In reply to New sound technology has sensing jacks.

        Some of the computers I have made for people have Realtec sound card built in ! And I have seen the popup window come up with something like should the software see this when you plug or un plug or something like that ! And that was in Windows 2000 Pro . . And Linux ( Linspire 5.0 )

        • #2591917

          why should the OS ask me

          by justanotherguy ·

          In reply to I have seen it on a few

          if it should see this [headphone or microphone] when I plug it in. I’m sorry, but DUH. If this is what the Vista/New hardware is doing, well, I’ll just stay with Win2k – runs fine, and when I plug in a headphone, what – or why – does it care?

        • #2592422

          Ahem,

          by magpie_z ·

          In reply to why should the OS ask me

          The Operating system doesn’t tell you, it is the driver/control set for the sound hardware from the Audio manufacturer that the MB manufacturer integrated.

          Duh, really, are there any real people that write in here that know anything about how computers work or ?

          Most crashes are usually due to drivers and the Realtek driver set has an issue that has been addressed by the Audio manufacturer and MS. Get your update, my copies of Vista automatically downloaded the update, why not yours?

      • #2590777

        Nice post – logical explanation but Vista shouldn’t crash

        by intrepi ·

        In reply to New sound technology has sensing jacks.

        I think you are right as nothing is impossible but Vista shouldn’t crash as a result of this as it should be more stable than that. I do believe the fixes and updates will be made to Vista but I also believe that these issues would have been avoided if people would read the reviews and take the advice of the reviewers on waiting until Vista’s SP1 was available. If the United States government refuses to use Vista, it doesn’t take a bolt of lightening to get me to consider the fact that there has to be a logical reason for it. I enjoyed reading your post as it suggests a real valid reason for this happening to him but it doesn’t suggest why Vista allowed a non certified driver to be installed. Vista is supposed to be past these issues that XP had and every version previous had. Vista is supposed to be a stable, self monitoring OS or at least that is what Microsoft has led us to believe isn’t it ? Maybe the way to avoid this is just to wait until they’ve made these fixes to ensure non compatible software and drivers are all refused by Vista.

        • #2590597

          Vista shouldn’t crash….

          by stumilty ·

          In reply to Nice post – logical explanation but Vista shouldn’t crash

          Firstly, there are a lot of drivers and that out there and Microsoft cannot test them all. You know how long that would take. Secondly I guess you have never developed software. Otherwise you would know that it is nearly impossible to create a perfect crash free piece of software. And thirdly if anyone has such a big problem with Vista or any other OS, create one yourself, and then come back and stay how bad Microsoft Vista is. It is not perfectly stable but it is more stable and secure than XP.

        • #2591951

          That’s not the point.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Vista shouldn’t crash….

          The point is that plugging in a piece of audio hardware shouldn’t crash the OS — and that’s true. Failing to test for every piece of hardware in the world should just lead to a lack of proper support for the hardware. Software may crash for other reasons without getting this sort of attention. The fact that plugging in a microphone caused an OS crash, however, is simply unacceptable.

          Anyone that actually knows what (s)he is doing while developing software should be able to figure that out.

        • #2591899

          that maybe be true

          by stumilty ·

          In reply to That’s not the point.

          connecting a piece of hardware can cause the OS to crash indirectly. For example if the PSU can’t handle the extra load, it can make the system unstable and the OS can crash. I can also make non OS programs crash. I’m not say that it is the hardware’s fault, but to just blame the software is narrow minded. The software relies on the hardware, if that fails, the software fails.

        • #2591877

          missing my point

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to that maybe be true

          “[i]For example if the PSU can’t handle the extra load, it can make the system unstable and the OS can crash.[/i]”
          That causes the system to crash — it doesn’t cause a BSOD, which is a strictly software-related phenomenon.

        • #2592454

          What about the mic

          by stumilty ·

          In reply to missing my point

          What about the problem the guy had of BSOD when he plugged his mic in? Is that not hardware? And since drivers are installed deep in the OS if the driver has a flaw it can crash the OS because it has become a part of it.

        • #2592431

          whacked by the cluestick

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to missing my point

          Obviously, plugging in the mic was somehow detected by the OS, which then [b]did something software-related[/b] to cause the BSOD. Hardware and software [b]do interact[/b] at some level.

          Are you playing dumb?

        • #2591897

          It is the point

          by greg ·

          In reply to That’s not the point.

          If you fill your car with crap petrol the car wont start or runs poorly. I dont see people blaming Ford. Thats my point. Look outside the square.

        • #2591873

          hardware, not software

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to It is the point

          Filling the car’s tank with “crap petrol” won’t cause the fuel injection computer to have a software error.

        • #2591832

          Missed the point

          by greg ·

          In reply to hardware, not software

          I give up, I have better things to do. Keep bagging Microsoft if it makes you feel better.

        • #2592625

          I agree about “crap petrol”, ie “crap software”

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to It is the point

          You’re using that analogy bass ackwards for the computer hardware vs. computer software argument.

          HINT
          automobile hardware: gas tank:: computer hardware: operating system.

          Oh, sorry, that wasn’t really a “hint”, that was just the answer. I too don’t have time for this crap.

        • #2582678

          But ford

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to It is the point

          Can make a car that runs on all available petrol
          So the car thing was not even close
          Also don?t forget about filters
          Was the car a bad design because ford forgot to add a filter?

        • #2592609

          *sigh* Why do people always post this tripe?

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Vista shouldn’t crash….

          1) Ok. Linux and Mac seem to do just fine with a plethora of drivers out there…why can’t MS?

          2) What does that have to do with the price of beans in China? Nobody is talking about crash proof software

          3) It has been created, it’s called Linux. Not only does it gracefully deal with issues, but it won’t crash even if a driver borks things up. It’s called modular architecture.

          If you are curious, just look up my name and find my other posting…I’m sure I’ve rebutted your next statements multiple times.

        • #2592433

          “why can’t MS?”

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to *sigh* Why do people always post this tripe?

          It’s not just modular architecture, although that is sure to exacerbate the problem. But even if they developed a more modular architecture, they would still have problems that directly result from proprietary code, and outside sources of hardware. Apple avoids the problem by keeping more of their work “under one roof”. Linux handles the problem by making all the code available to everybody, so any problem can be fixed as quickly as it affects somebody who cares enough to do the work. Microsoft’s business strategy will mean that this problem will be most difficult for them, no matter how hard they work at writing more stable operating systems because they will always have to share some blame for drivers they didn’t even write.

        • #2592515

          Stable ? Secure ?

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to Vista shouldn’t crash….

          I am guessing that was a joke right . . Or at least I hope so. . There are patches for it which will make it lock up and sit there, you must not have got them yet . . hehehe have fun !

        • #2592419

          wasn’t the driver…

          by magpie_z ·

          In reply to Nice post – logical explanation but Vista shouldn’t crash

          the control panel of the audio system wrote to an area that actually caused the problem with which I believe is user32.dll.

          Driver was okay and the fix was to remove the control panel. Manufacturer rewrote program to properly install without writing to improper area.

          Problem gone. No problem, no foul, no harm, unless the person is not versed in how to research on issues.

          But don’t get me started on poorly written drivers for nVidia, managed to burn out a 7950 vc due to improperly written driver. Now that is a $300.00 ouch, but is going to manu for warrantee.

        • #2582413

          Refuses to use

          by Anonymous ·

          In reply to Nice post – logical explanation but Vista shouldn’t crash

          The government is not the only ones that refuse to use Vista. But in many cases it is not it is not the OS fault. Put Vista behind a Linux firewall and record the incoming an outgoing traffic. Vista was built with advise and some help from the NSA, NSC, and justice departments. Think your data is secure, check those logs.

    • #2591458

      Incorrect

      by now left tr ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      plugging in a microphone just to the MIC jack would not do this unless there was a HARDWARE problem when the low voltage was passed through the connection. So it is a HARDWARE issue!

      • #2590715

        not so

        by apotheon ·

        In reply to Incorrect

        A BSOD is a software issue, not a hardware issue. Voltage drops don’t cause BSODs — they cause things like sudden reboots. Excessively “helpful” drivers, however, can cause issues when attaching hardware like a set of headphones.

        • #2592418

          yup,,,,,,

          by magpie_z ·

          In reply to not so

          Happened with my unit, but removal of control panel for audio fix problem.

        • #2582677

          Sorry Nope

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to not so

          I have seen BSOD cause by hardware
          Just Drivers?
          No
          You forget some hardware has no drivers
          What ones
          CPU Ram irq

          There are lots
          I used ram just to show you
          Cpu yes had that happen
          Irq no pci didn?t solve all of that problem

          BSOD is only the os reaction to a problem

          Think about this some are MS drivers
          If its their drivers they are at fault
          That is if there is no problem with the hardware

        • #2582651

          still software, not hardware

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Sorry Nope

          “[i]CPU Ram irq[/i]”

          Memory errors are all the hardware problems that can cause a BSOD. The only reason a CPU can cause a BSOD is because it sits between the OS and for a bunch of operations. The only reason memory errors cause a BSOD is that memory is where the software resides while it’s running (and, thus, memory errors translate into software errors).

          IRQs, by the way, are not hardware. They’re software.

          Actual hardware problems never directly cause a BSOD — though software that interacts with it may have problems, which can then cause a BSOD. The hardware [b]itself[/b] cannot cause a BSOD, however.

        • #2583270

          Sorry IRQs

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to still software, not hardware

          Are a hardware generated interrupt request
          To tell the cpu (Hardware) to stop what it is doing and do something else
          They even have there own circuits on the motherboard
          Just different in PCI but still there
          Must be the interrupt vector tables that you refer to which are software
          Of cause BSOD cannot be caused by ram failure
          Cause we all no how ram has nothing to do with software
          Failure of ram is always predictable of course
          Just like windows
          Or is it BSOD is just part of a process
          We also know that BSOD cannot happen all by itself that would be a bug
          Of course BSOD to you is only what we see on the screen and nothing more than that
          I guess windows is also only one process then if is it also only what we see on the screen and no more then a movie
          But wait there is more the cathode ray tube only shows a dot on the screen
          So does that mean windows and BSOD are now a dot and not a screen
          In fact software cannot cause the BSOD
          Which is caused by the action of light on the crystals on LCD Displays
          Or the electron beam striking the chemical dots in the cathode ray tubes
          Which is hardware
          The action (cause) that starts a process is the cause of the process no matter how many components it may have
          Therefore the cause of the action is the cause of the result of the action

          Pays to sometimes think outside of the box
          Most things that use a single name are also part of a process or it can be the name of the process
          Cause and effect

          Now say sorry to everyone you miss under stood
          Guess that never happens on TR

        • #2580730

          IRQs

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Sorry IRQs

          IRQ errors are software errors related to misallocated interrupt requests. Get a clue.

        • #2580632

          Thanks

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to IRQs

          Guess those A, B, C, D labels are all wrong
          Must also be wrong about
          Hardware being the cause of any software process or action
          Amazeing that computers work at all
          Now where was the on button

          Just get it will you
          The cause of an action or reaction is still the cause of the result or reaction

          No matter how many other actions or reactions may occur in between the original action and end reaction

          Simply put cause and affect

          My reference to IRQs was hardware IRQs
          The faulty piece of hardware caused an unrelated Interrupt request
          This happened on the add-on daughter board
          But good software would have been able cope

          Static discharge can have some unbelievable effects
          Not sure if it was the cause in this case

          Understanding is bliss

        • #2582244

          the point

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Thanks

          There are hardware failures, and there are software failures. Hardware failures can sometimes be handled by software so that things don’t blow up in your face. Software that fails to handle those problems causes software problems. BSOD is a software failure.

        • #2582182

          OH MY GOD

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to the point

          CAUSE AND EFFECT
          CAUSE AND EFFECT
          CAUSE AND EFFECT
          CAUSE AND EFFECT
          CAUSE AND EFFECT

          FOR THE LOVE OF GOD READ UP ABOUT IT
          Try physics for start

          If you still don’t get it

          Fine since I do not have the time or interest to continue with this
          Also since you insist on limiting hardware and its processes
          I will apply the same limits to software and its processes

          So we will look at processors, buses, ram and chipsets
          Types of bus being control data and address

          Software, which is no more than information and instructions
          And its relationship to the mentioned hardware is obvious
          Which reduces software to nothing more than effect of electrical activity on the hardware I have mention

          We now can conclude that software is no more than electrical activity
          So if we remove electricity there is no software
          But wait what about the hard drive and firmware

          So we now have stored electricity, magnetic fields, and hardware
          So if IRQ errors and the blue SCREEN of death cannot be caused by hardware we must remove it
          So now we have electricity and magnetic fields

          But we have to include light or we cannot see the BSOD
          So we now can have fibre optics
          But the fibres are hardware so there is only light
          Well software must be electricity, magnetic fields and light
          But I have to remove software because software is a process and I must limit that

          So IRQ errors and the BSOD is caused by electricity, magnetic fields and light

          Or else I like to think of it in simple terms

          Software, which is instructions and information
          As means to control hardware
          Which must do everything including fetching executing and transferring software

          Pays to try and understand what people are saying and not nitpick
          It only makes people think you are acting superior
          Or they may just think you are a dick head

          I don?t
          I just think you need to think outside the box

          Now say sorry to all the people you told, ?The BSOD is caused by software?

          May have revise my opinion of you

          Steve

        • #2581996

          I’ll keep this short and sweet:

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to OH MY GOD

          Yes, some hardware failures might lead to software failures. No, a consistent BSOD response to a microphone being plugged in that is solved simply by removing the microphone is not a software failure response to a short. Continuing to try to blame a BSOD on a short circuit (do you even know what that means?) as if it is not a result of poor error handling by the OS is asinine, and will be ignored.

          Carry on with your life.

          (edit: re “nitpick” . . . my whole point in bringing up the fact that a BSOD is a software issue is to point out that a short circuit in the microphone case would not be the primary cause of a BSOD. Only by degrading an integrated circuit or otherwise long-term damaging other hardware would it lead to BSODs, at which point the BSOD response of the OS would not be so obviously linked directly to whether or not the microphone is currently plugged in. Thus, based on the evidence at hand, the BSOD is obviously not something so trite and unimaginative as a “short”, a term whose use in this context seems to me to be the result of a lack of technical understanding of the operation of a computer and its operating system. As I’ve said many times, yes, a short circuit could cause the software to fail to operate properly — in this case, however, such a failure would take the form of a shutdown or reboot, or potentially some other symptom that hasn’t occurred to me, but certainly not a BSOD.)

        • #2593619

          Wrong Apotheon

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to IRQs

          The hardware was the start of the whole process
          The cause of the process
          The whole process would not have happen without the hardware

          Again cause and effect

          Software is only part of the process not the cause of the process
          There would have been no process without the hardware when the computer restarted or was already started
          Software cannot be anything other than a process, which has a start
          The start was the hardware
          Other processes that may have been set in place or started cannot be included in the process if they are not part of the process
          BSOD was the end of the process

          Simply GET THIS
          The start of the whole process was hardware
          The middle of the whole process was hardware CONTROLLED by software (the Operating system)
          The end of the whole process was the BSOD displayed on hardware
          The START, CAUSE, INITIATOR, BEGINNING of the whole process was the hardware

          Please don?t answer me if you are so mind-boggling stupid that you cannot grasp such a simple concept is this

          AGAIN for the brain dead

          CAUSE AND EFFECT
          CAUSE AND EFFECT
          CAUSE AND EFFECT
          CAUSE AND EFFECT
          CAUSE AND EFFECT
          CAUSE AND EFFECT
          CAUSE AND EFFECT
          CAUSE AND EFFECT

          Good god man wake up

          Yes we get the fact that BSOD can be caused by hardware (The processor)CONTROLLED by software
          Which may or may not be defective

          (Amazing the processor may not be faulty)
          (Amazing the processor loaded the software)
          (Amazing the RAM contained the software)

          The plugging in of the microphone jack was the cause of the software related problem
          The defective software only reacted to this
          Yes the software was defective but it was not the cause, which was plugging in of the microphone jack a piece of HARDWARE

          DO YOU GET IT
          HARDWARE
          HARDWARE
          HARDWARE
          HARDWARE
          AND JUST IN CASE YOU MISSED IT
          HARDWARE

          Also short circuit
          A path of low resistance bypassing part of a circuit
          More HAREWARE

          That and the myth that BSOD can be caused by software(Which is untrue) may also be off the point

        • #2594282

          by analogy

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Wrong Apotheon

          Getting shot by a gun is a “hardware problem”.

          Getting shot with a tranquilizer dart is another “hardware problem”.

          The gunshot wound that puts you in the hospital is analogous to a short circuit that zaps the system.

          Getting woozy and falling over is a BSOD — not a direct result of getting shot by a tranquilizer dart, but rather the result of weird data getting fed to the system as a result of a “hardware problem” that doesn’t directly affect the system much.

          Get the friggin’ clue yet?

        • #2594058

          CAUSE AND EFFECT/CAUSE AND EFFECT/CAUSE AND EFFECT – reminiscent of…

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Wrong Apotheon

          http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=212977&messageID=2185400

          So, GB, software is not the root cause of this failure. But, better software would prevent the same minor hardware voltage spike from forcing a system reboot. Net result: to the end user, the system had to reboot, [b]because[/b] the software is not as good as other software. Still not the “prime mover” in this causality string, but, also still a part of the causality string, and the part primarily under discussion.

          PLEASE STOP YELLING.

        • #2593478

          A final word

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to IRQs

          Your post

          http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=222122&messageID=2233728

          States a BSOD is a software issue
          Not true as I showed in my posts
          It also shows you do not understand Cause and effect

          Apply Cause and effect to this post of yours

          http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=222122&messageID=2238384

          Software is no more than instructions and information for the CPU
          The CPU is part of the process that creates BSOD
          It may also be the cause of BSOD when it screws up the software
          If it becomes or is degraded (Physical or heat or other damage internal or external don?t care)
          Actual hardware is the only thing that can create the BSOD
          Software cannot directly cause a BSOD
          Cause and effect shows
          Actual hardware problems can directly cause a BSOD

          These post are the start of your miss understanding and lack of knowledge

        • #2594281

          yay, you can repeat yourself

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to A final word

          Repeating it doesn’t make it more true.

        • #2594199

          Guess you will never get it

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to IRQs

          You still DO NOT under stand cause and effect

          Getting shot by a gun or tranquilizer (the cause)
          And ending up in hospital (which is the effect)

          The system getting woozy is an effect
          Falling over is an effect
          The result of weird data getting fed to the system is an effect
          The BSOD is an effect

          The hardware problem is the cause

          How much it affects the system is irrelevant

          It shows how clueless you really are when it comes to cause and effect

          Like you said
          Get the friggin clue yet?

        • #2594052

          whacked by assistant cluestick

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Guess you will never get it

          Oh, friggin’ dear.

          1 primary cause

          More than one result

          More than one possible [u]end result[/u], depending on intermediate results, which become causes of subsequent results.

          Here beginneth your lesson:

          Primary cause = voltage out of bounds, in this case in the microphone hardware

          Direct result of this cause = variable in hardware driver’s software out of bounds

          End result under some operating systems = terminate a distinct process while the rest of the system continues to operate

          End result under other operating systems = terminate all operations & reboot the system

          It shows how clueless you really are when it comes to cause[u]s[/u] and effect[u]s[/u]

          Like you said
          Get the friggin’ clue yet?

        • #2594005

          obviously didn’t get the analogy

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Guess you will never get it

          Despite Absolutely’s excellent follow-up, I’ll add some fuel to the fire by trying to explain where the analogy makes my point a little more clearly for you:

          Your argument is akin to an argument that, because the bullet and the tranquilizer both involve you getting shot, getting shot with a bullet will just make you woozy and fall over (get a BSOD) because your software (brain) is affected by a catastrophic electrical discharge (bullet). Unfortunately for your argument, the “get woozy and fall over” stuff would happen because your software (brain) was fed bad data (a mind-altering drug in the tranquilizer dart) — not because of massive physical trauma and hydrostatic shock from a bullet to the chest.

          Now . . . if your OS (brain) was designed differently, the messed up data (tranquilizer) might not cause you to get woozy and fall over. Maybe it would give you pause for a moment, but then you’d move on. That’s how an OS that handles driver issues caused by a microphone being plugged in better than MS Windows would manage the situation — pause a moment to disable the issue, or not worry about it because the driver interface is better designed, and just move on without throwing up a system-stopping error like a BSOD.

          Let’s try it another way: Bullets can cause damage that makes you have psychological problems later, like post traumatic stress disorder, but on the way to doing that they cause physical damage now, and they don’t cause psychological problems only while they’re in contact with your flesh. Mind-altering drugs, on the other hand, cause their primary effects only while in your system, though they may leave some initially undetected long-term effects behind.

          So:

          Bullet = physical damage to the system that causes catastrophic failure now and maybe weird issues later that cause BSODs at that later date.

          Tranquilizer = BSOD now, with the potential for more problems later if it screws up the registry or otherwise leads to bits being rearranged on the hard drive.

          Is the analogy [b]crystal clear[/b] yet?

          Also — as Absolutely said, please STOP SHOUTING. Regardless of whether you’re “right” or “wrong”, I don’t think anyone is going to respect you at all based on the way you’ve flown off the damned handle here.

        • #2593997

          Thanks absolutely

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to IRQs

          For agreeing with me
          Now please explain it to apotheon
          Don?t forget to explain transfer of cause to him as well

          He is still clueless
          And deaf

          My first post to him
          Included 3 hardware related faults
          CPU Ram IRQ
          I also mention some hardware doesn?t have drivers
          He then contradicted himself in his reply
          Stating that hardware can cause BSOD
          Then states
          Actual hardware problems never directly cause a BSOD
          All to the point of course

          Edited to add this

          Can you tell me why you keep giving me a process as an example of a result?
          But will not accept the process that a hardware fault is the cause of a BSOD

        • #2593780

          You misunderstood: I grant you’re correct, on some trivia.

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Thanks absolutely

          On the substance of the matter, you are an apparition!

          :^0

        • #2593779

          I see.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to You misunderstood: I grant you’re correct, on some trivia.

          “[i]you are an apparition![/i]”

          Ephemeral. Insubstantial, even. Lacking tangible argument.

          You’re punny!

        • #2593752

          The apparition

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to IRQs

          Would appear to be your grasp of the facts
          It would also appear to be the fact that, you never misunderstood me

          What no better answer?

          Good to see that you don?t get condescending when losing an argument

          Well answer this

          Is the screen of death, caused by a process?

        • #2593785

          PDNFTT

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Sorry Nope

          “You forget some hardware has no drivers
          What ones
          CPU Ram irq”

          None of which are microphone jacks, the subject of this thread. You have made some valid, but inapplicable points below. You have done so in an unnecessarily abrasive and inappropriately condescending manner. You’re not overwhelming any of us with your knowledge. You are mainly displaying your own difficulty understanding or recognizing relevance in the present context.

        • #2593756

          I hope you say the same to Apotheon

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to PDNFTT

          About his post
          “not so”
          Where he states
          A BSOD is a software issue, not a hardware issue.

          Looks like thats on the topic as well

          Edited to add

          Guess you didn?t get the meaning of my statement about sticking to the point

        • #2593720

          re: “statement about sticking to the point”

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to I hope you say the same to Apotheon

          [i]Guess you didn?t get the meaning of my statement about sticking to the point[/i]

          I might have missed any ‘meaning’ amidst the shouting. If you care to repeat yourself clearly and directly, I might read it.

        • #2593709

          Good to hear from a professional?

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to re: “statement about sticking to the point”

          Since you are now reading these posts
          Can you explain the behaviour of apotheon

          Why he would make the statement

          A BSOD is a software issue, not a hardware issue

          Mystifies me why he would use a flawed statement like that
          When the plugging in of microphone jack was clearly the cause of the BSOD
          I don?t at all think he was acting superior or condescending in that
          Or any other similar statements to other people making the same type of comment
          ?Hardware was the cause of the BSOD?
          He then goes on to make the sooo accurate statement

          Voltage drops don’t cause BSODs — they cause things like sudden reboots.

          Then wonders why someone questions him on his post
          Boy am I surprised by his reply to my post
          He contradicts himself with this gem

          Memory errors are all the hardware problems that can cause a BSOD

          Of course it can only go down hill from there
          More stunning was his next statement

          The only reason a CPU can cause a BSOD is because it sits between the OS and for a bunch of operations.

          Wow is it software or hardware
          But wait there?s more

          The only reason memory errors cause a BSOD is that memory is where the software resides while it’s running (and, thus, memory errors translate into software errors).

          So easy to understand all of those statements
          His conduct from that point is of course very professional
          Should have given up then
          But I got pulled into the garbage
          (Sorry I was tired)
          Any attempts to explain are only seen by blind eyes or deaf ears (you choose)

          By now the smoke will be billowing out of his ears
          So I give up
          You must be right then apotheon
          Because I was the one to give in

          Anyone out there still wonder why there are so many fights on TR

          If you do just ask the experts
          I am sure they will give you an answer that is precise, short and to the point
          Don?t worry all the extra unwanted stuff is normal
          If you still don?t understand
          Don?t worry that?s normal on TR

          Absolutely thanks for listening

        • #2595100

          OK, benefit of doubt time:

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Good to hear from a professional?

          [i]Any attempts to explain are only seen by blind eyes or deaf ears (you choose)[/i]

          If forced to choose a pair of non-operative sense organs with which to see any attempts to explain, I guess I’d opt for deaf ears.
          😀

          Now, to the technicalities.

          [i]Since you are now reading these posts
          Can you explain the behaviour of apotheon

          Why he would make the statement

          A BSOD is a software issue, not a hardware issue[/i]

          I’ll tell you how I understood that, sure. When “[u]Plug & Play[/u]” hardware gets [u]plugged in[/u], elementary circuit theory says that voltages are [u]expected[/u] to change; the headphone & mic jacks occupy space that was empty, completing electric circuits. The change in voltage is represented mathematically by a Kronecker’s Delta, aka “step curve”. As this is inherent in the [u][b]expected operation[/b][/u] of the hardware, the software should be written so as to anticipate it. If the software drivers are not well written, the same [u]expected[/u] voltage fluctuation can be handled in no way other than the BSOD.

          [i]Voltage drops don’t cause BSODs — they cause things like sudden reboots.[/i]

          Well, OK, some voltage drops cause lightning, too, but…
          🙂
          my understanding of that statement, the first time I read it, was that he meant voltage [u]irregularities[/u], and I happened to assume that he also meant at/from the power supply. Whereas, in contrast, the voltage changes [u]caused[/u] by plugging in a headphone or microphone ought to cause a variable to be called, a method to be invoked, etc., and not the “Blue Screen of Death” method, either!

          Finally, I normally don’t try to play arbiter, peacemaker, or referee, but you seem honest in these questions, so I’ll make an exception:

          [i]Mystifies me why he would use a flawed statement like that
          When the plugging in of microphone jack was clearly the cause of the BSOD
          I don?t at all think he was acting superior or condescending in that
          Or any other similar statements to other people making the same type of comment
          ?Hardware was the cause of the BSOD?
          He then goes on to make the sooo accurate statement

          Then wonders why someone questions him on his post
          Boy am I surprised by his reply to my post
          He contradicts himself with this gem[/i]

          Well, a little sarcastic still, but also within “benefit of doubt” honesty parameters, so here goes. I found a lot of your posts difficult to read, not only because of SHOUTING, but because of your omission of punctuation and things like [u]formatting cues[/u] to indicate when you’re quoting somebody else, as distinct from words of your own. If you copy and paste one of my longer replies, to anybody, which contain a few paragraphs of [i]italicized quotes[/i] of another member and paste into Notepad, you’ll see that leaving out this formatting makes the same text much more difficult to read, and understand in context. I think that even if you made a good point, the lack of formatting tends to make it look less accurate, and more like gibberish, than it actually is. When, on top of being less easy to read than you could, you are even slightly confrontational, particularly to a member like apotheon who has been contributing substantially for years…

          Guide to formatting, as well as 😀 faces:

          http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-22_11-5269527.html

        • #2595083

          Thanks for that Absolutely

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to re: “statement about sticking to the point”

          Some it was difficult to understand
          Getting tired

          But I got some of it
          Did enjoy the deaf ears part

          I would like to point out
          Apart from my explanation of a short circuit
          I did not used the term short or short circuit as part of the discussion

          Funny don?t remember TheTechmall using it
          Just you guys
          My first post was directed at apotheon not TheTechmall

          One mistake I will correct
          An IRQ is a transition in an electrical circuit not a software process
          Still a hardware generated interrupt request

          By the way a person falling over
          Would be because their muscles relaxed and the effect of gravity
          Not the bullet or getting woozy
          Being carried through the hospital doors on a stretcher will put the person in hospital not the gunshot wound
          Unless he was just outside the doors and fell though when shot

          post traumatic stress disorder, psychological problems
          So we psychoanalyse the BSOD or hardware is that it?

          Primary cause = voltage out of bounds
          Not my choice of primary cause
          That and result are your choices

          Voltage spike or voltage drop pick one please

          All of these were such a big help in understanding your points

          Thanks Absolutely and apotheon I see my mistake

          It was reading your posts

          Some of them were good laughs
          Some ???????????

      • #2593719

        low voltage

        by absolutely ·

        In reply to Incorrect

        Microphones tend to be amplified, so voltage differences are larger than with other audio hardware. Good software should be written anticipating this well-known fact of microphone hardware, and handling it gracefully. Also, an operating system should not allow an audio process to take down the entire system.

    • #2591386

      Computer down after using headset.

      by mok611 ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      Please help me.I have a laptop Inspiron 1501 with Window Vista. I plug in my headset to listen to some music and having no problem listening. I shut down my computer and go to sleep. However, the next morning I could not open my computer. I contacted my dealer (Dell computer Malaysia) and was told that it was due to virus attacked and to rectify the problem I have to reformat my hard disk and ofcourse losing my data.Luckily I saw your article on the headset. Now, It is the headset that cause problem to my Vista or it is really a virus attacked. I am using a window defender and AVG Free Edition (Which is very reliable since I have been using it for years). I understand from my dealer that Window defender will protect my kennel meaning that I dont need to reformat incase of any serious attacked. I am quite lost in in depression state at the moment because I cant bear losing my precious data.

      Please help me. I am not really a computer literate and I dont know what to do.

      • #2590900

        My Best Suggestion

        by spacetack ·

        In reply to Computer down after using headset.

        Dear mok611,

        Most likely you didn’t lose your data, it is still on the hard drive. There is a possibility that your data can be recovered by a professional that know the command line. And in some cases I have been able to recover data using a linux distribution called Knoppix. This is a fully loaded booted Operating System from the CD-Rom. Yes you heard me, this doesn’t even require a hard drive to be installed to use Knoppix.

        Your best bet, is to forget what MS said. They couldn’t find themselve in broad daylight.

        I hope this helps some.

        Spacetack

        • #2592416

          Reread post….

          by magpie_z ·

          In reply to My Best Suggestion

          They said the dealer in Malaysia, not MS. Advice was given by typically uninformed sales people or low level techs.

      • #2590710

        not enough information

        by apotheon ·

        In reply to Computer down after using headset.

        That could be any number of problems, based on what you said. You could be suffering a hardware failure, there could be Windows Registry corruption due to long use with lots of installation and uninstallation of software, some kind of malware could have been introduced to the system (like a virus, worm, et cetera), and so on. In the case of malware, however, it’s possible that you might be able to recover the system without reformatting the hard drive, so I tend to guess the people at Dell were full of crap and just didn’t want to spend any real time on solving the problem.

        Unfortunately, you haven’t provided enough information for anyone here to really make an informed guess as to the nature of your problem. I suppose it’s possible that Dell gave you good information, but if that’s the case you must have given Dell more information than you’ve given us. Even if that’s the case, though, you still have options for recovering your data, as spacetack pointed out.

      • #2592413

        Okay, give this a try…..

        by magpie_z ·

        In reply to Computer down after using headset.

        See if you have the Vista install disc or the manufacturer restoration disc. There are tools available on the disc to do various repairs to a non starting system.

        When you boot using the disc, the first screen that asks if you want to install Vista will have a link in the lower left hand corner to take you to repair utilities.

        They have four different levels which increase in intrusiveness into the os to repair. The Manufacturer disc may be a little different but should have same utilities.

        If you have the disc, let us know and we may take this offline not to interfere with the message board. If you do not have the disc, the original Vista OS disc can usually be requested from Dell or MS depending on the arrangement by Dell.

        When the drive from nVidia hosed my system, these little gems worked great. Also, make sure that no other peripherals are hooked up to the notebook, as I had a fit trying to resolve a problem that was due to a second monitor being hooked up to the Video Card.

    • #2592896

      This doesn’t surprise me for now

      by sevenex ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      I have a client whose computer has an audio issue, not with the microphone, but with extremely weak audio. Even an amplified set of speakers brings up much background noise and a small output. I’m convinced it’s a Vista issue. I’ve not fully researched it to see if audio drivers for Vista have been written for his integrated motherboard or to the PC manufacturer, but it’s like anything new with Microsoft.

      Support for new OS’es with a lot of legacy stuff comes along after the launch. These sort of omissions can cause me to use the “Bang Your Head Here” paper target on the wall.

      • #2592860

        How in the hell can you blame Vista?

        by breadtrk ·

        In reply to This doesn’t surprise me for now

        When you have not even done a very simple check with the manufacturer of your hardware for Vista compliant drivers?

        I mean, come on! Are you Techs or crybabies?

        • #2592841

          Let’s think here

          by druuzil ·

          In reply to How in the hell can you blame Vista?

          It’s a standard headset w/boom mic. This isn’t exactly state of the art technology. It’s worked fine since windows 98. It should work now, and it should certainly not cause a blue screen by simply plugging it in. It’s just a typical audio jack. Nothing special.

        • #2592034

          Is that so much to ask?

          by francoiswiid ·

          In reply to Let’s think here

          When can we get a Operating System that can just at least have error handling like it’s suppose to be!?

          How difficult can it be for a ca-drillion dollar company to develop a OS that when a game crash (or you plug in a friggen headset) just handle the problem and go back to stable operation without completely blowing up?!

        • #2590925

          Do something about it

          by quasar kid ·

          In reply to Is that so much to ask?

          I am always amazed at people who demand someone else do something. If you don’t like your OS choices then develop and market your own stable OS.

        • #2590917

          Ok, np

          by francoiswiid ·

          In reply to Do something about it

          Have you seen the technology of today… And they can’t prevent a BSOD when connecting a headset?
          I’m just trying to say that, separating the kernel from basic (including hardware) should have been a top priority. I don’t have more than 71,172 employees to help me develop my very own OS.
          That is used across the world that I’m claiming is the most stable that I’m charging people an arm and a leg 🙂

        • #2592408

          That is why…..

          by magpie_z ·

          In reply to Ok, np

          it crashed. Because some bonehead wrote software went where it wasn’t supposed to go. Not MS. The audio manufacturer thought they could do an XP type of thing and it caused people grief.

          MS will verify the drivers, not the control panel applets the manufacturers decide to throw in as an after thought.

          And no, nobody can prevent a BSOD on anything if someone is stupid enough to miswrite how something is installed into an OS, any OS.

        • #2592404

          Not exactly, magpie_z.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Ok, np

          If the driver is handled better by the OS, it can be prevented from crashing the system. Driver modules in Linux, for example, don’t have that kind of ability to crash Linux systems in the same way. While it’s true that a poorly written driver can crash the system no matter what OS it is, I’ve never seen any OS other than MS Windows with a driver that appeared to work perfectly for a while, then suddenly crashed the system.

        • #2591092

          Magpi

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Ok, np

          Not so much. BSOD are mostly preventable. The reason they occur is because:

          A) MS OSs are not modular
          B) MS OSs allow drivers to float between user and kernel space and they can kind of do what they want
          C) User32.dll is the a kludge of a mess
          D) Ditto for Kernel32.dll

          So basically what all this means is that MS has built in problems because they allow bad things to happen rather than gracefully stopping or mitigating them….a BSOD is not graceful or a good way to mitigate serious errors.

          I point you to a great introductory book on OSs (by Tannenbaum the inventor of Minix) http://www.amazon.com/Operating-Systems-Implementation-Prentice-Hall-Software/dp/0136374069

        • #2580187

          Apotheon, and et al….

          by magpie_z ·

          In reply to Ok, np

          The original post claimed that when he went to set up his headset/mic to work with an application, he plugged it in and it bluescreened. Second he stated that it didn’t stop until he removed it.

          The area that needed to be looked at, considering it was probably using HD Audio and jack sensing, would be the application that reconfigured the path for the audio/voice to travel since it is all not controlled mechanicallly but through reconfiguration by software.

          If the sound worked before he plugged it in, and did not blue screen, that means that something other than the driver caused the problem. Therefore, the offender would probably found in the application that caused the switching and that it could be misrouted or when jack sensing was invoked the execution infringed improperly on the OS.

          Yeah, I got the point that only Windows machine do the BSOD, and that it isn’t “elegant” but have you ever tried to free up a Mac when it locked? How elegant is that. At least with Vista it is now “more” capable of recovering from a lot of crashes, but not perfect.

        • #2582538

          locking up

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Ok, np

          The rarity of “locking up” or crashing in any sense occurring for a unixlike OS is staggering, especially in comparison with the relative frequency on MS Windows systems. Part of the reason for this is that unixlike systems don’t integrate everything under the sun into a single, inseparable whole. If some piece of software on the system craps out — crashes, “locks up”, whatever — if it comes to that you can generally switch to a TTY console and kill the offending process without affecting the rest of the system. If that’s not possible for some reason, and your system is on a network, you can almost certainly do so by accessing the system remotely with SSH.

          That’s simply not an option for MS Windows, where there is no TTY console because the core operating system includes the GUI, and Microsoft’s Remote Desktop is a GUI-based tool that depends on a chain of applications that tends to include whatever “locked up” or crashed.

          Simply put, [b]there are better ways to do it than MS Windows does it[/b].

        • #2582674

          So are you

          by ghostbrowser ·

          In reply to Do something about it

          Saying that MS can’t fix this problem
          Or is it that
          They have no responsibility for how their os works
          Or is it this simple
          The device should not been enabled until the driver was updated
          Good for most hardware issues

        • #2590705

          So use a different OS.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Is that so much to ask?

          There are other options out there. Have you tried them out?

          I haven’t had problems like this microphone silliness with FreeBSD — maybe that’s the OS you need.

        • #2592525

          I have a question there

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to So use a different OS.

          Did the microphone work before all this went down ? And did you plug it into the right hole ? My 8 channel sound card has lots of holes in it and I got to hit the little sound Icon and let it show me which one of the 8 holes to plug what into and I count over to the spot and plug away !. . . I got a mic which is really weak so I went to USB port Mic to get the sound . . It could be the Mic causing the problem or a setting in the sound card IRQ. .

        • #2590698

          When a 2nd ‘ca-drillion dollar company’ seriously reduces market share

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Is that so much to ask?

          …of company #1. Macs are not bought by enough people, and Linux is not installed by enough people, to motivate Microsoft to offer a better product. They have no competition, thus no motivation to compete.

        • #2592523

          I am working on the not enough installed

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to When a 2nd ‘ca-drillion dollar company’ seriously reduces market share

          I am working hard on the problem of NOT enough people have it installed . . I have a cheap computer for sale ( $80.00 ) made up of odds and ends and loaded one of the versions of Linux into it . . Runs great and has almost everything they want to do in it . .

        • #2590634

          There’s more to it

          by jusovsky ·

          In reply to Is that so much to ask?

          There are actually reasons for the way computer systems fail like this. The nature of certain errors are unrecoverable not because there’s just no way to pick up the pieces, but often because it would be in the best interest of the system to not even try. Say for example that headset or some other peripheral was sending a little too much power back into the system. Windows could handle error after error and keep going. In doing so, it could lead to data corruption in RAM, then the hard disk. It could result in some other physical damage to the hardware, too. Sometimes it’s best to just shrug and halt everything just to be safe- even though it’s a big pain in the ass for the user.

        • #2591949

          Are you kidding?

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to There’s more to it

          If that was the reason for the crash, it should warn the user and shut down — not go to a BSOD so that it can sit there for hours getting hit with excessive voltage.

        • #2591711

          Nope.

          by jusovsky ·

          In reply to Are you kidding?

          It’s doubtful the O.S. would have any idea what was going on (depending on what info the BIOS was giving out)- only that there’s something wrong. In most cases, halting the system would be sufficient to prevent damage, though it may or may not in this particular case. The headset is imaginary, and so is the problem. That BSOD is the warning that you speak of.

        • #2592647

          Poppycock.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Are you kidding?

          You want it both ways — the OS recognizes that there’s a problem that could damage the system, so it BSODs, but it’s unable to determine that there’s a problem that could damage the system, so it doesn’t shut down.

        • #2591095

          Well, jusovsky, I’d say that calls for a simple, neat, wrong solution!

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Are you kidding?

          “The headset is imaginary, and so is the problem.”

          So, just imagine it works, et voila!

          [i]For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.[/i]

        • #2591818

          Jip

          by francoiswiid ·

          In reply to There’s more to it

          I agree with you, if RAM is inserted incorrectly, corrupt or damaged then the whole PC and motherboard BLOWS UP! NO!!

        • #2592606

          Hummana

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to There’s more to it

          Wow…I think you win the prize for most made up stuff!

        • #2591148

          Curious

          by jusovsky ·

          In reply to Hummana

          But then again, what qualifies you to make that statement?

        • #2591099

          I’m the magical man from happy land, that’s my qualification

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Hummana

          Owww look at me, I’m making people Happy! I’m the magical man, from Happy Land, who lives in a gumdrop house on Lolly Pop Lane!!!!

        • #2591001

          *Blink*

          by jusovsky ·

          In reply to Hummana

          You have the day off, don’t you? Or was that just caffeine induced? 🙂

        • #2590978

          Too much Simpson

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Hummana

          Homer is the MAN…

        • #2592428

          Easy! Watch…

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to How in the hell can you blame Vista?

          I blame Vista like this: I already dislike Microsoft, since version 95, which was so unstable you could hear it clunk! Now, if I use Vista and something goes wrong, I blame Vista. It doesn’t have to be a computer problem at all! Burned toast? Vista didn’t install the non-existent toaster drivers, dammit! See? Easy as falling off a bike!
          :^0

      • #2592030

        Drivers???

        by jayz_ijk ·

        In reply to This doesn’t surprise me for now

        Most of the time drivers are not available. But if u r a good google searcher u might find one. I have a computer in my office whch i tried upgrading to Vista, later there was no sound at all. My computer is Vista compatible(Thats what HP said). I contacted HP to get those drivers for Vista…No go. Then i searched in google with the motherboard specifications, and there it was. Finally i got one driver which actually worked. So i learner a lesson. If u r upgrading the system make sure everything is ready for it, use microsoft website…upgrade advisor.

      • #2590633

        Not entirely in defense of Vista but not faulting it either.

        by rick.agolia ·

        In reply to This doesn’t surprise me for now

        Just a couple of things to think about as we all go around slamming Vista – and I will preface this with – I have not upgraded to and am not using Vista yet. MS provides an operating system that is ‘supposed’ to interact nicely with hundreds of different pieces of hardware from different manufacturers. This is a very difficult exercise, at best, because of the variety of the hardware available. Only recently have hardware/component manufacturers starting providing ‘unified’ drivers and this is typically limited to video cards. This means that there is the expectation the any operating system will play nicely with every piece of hardware out there – possible in a completely static environment but the pc hardware is anything but static. New devices being introduced is almost a daily occurrence. Regarding older devices, much of the support for very old devices has been left in the hands of the original hardware manufacturers. You can’t really blame MS if, for example, Creative doesn’t want to bother with Vista drivers for the SB16 sound card (out of production for quite some time I believe).

        If you want to look at other operating systems, let’s start with the Apple operating systems. I will NOT disparage the MAC OS/X operating system. It is a very good operating system. However, Apple when it builds computers and the associated operating systems severely limits the hardware available, providing and supporting drivers for only the hardware that they sell. As an example, this means that the necessary support for video cards drops from supporting hundreds of devices to just a few.

        LINUX is beginning to become a viable alternative on the desktop to any MS offering but this is only a recent accomplishment. Historically LINUX has been too complicated to use and administer for the average PC ‘user’. Drivers for these operating systems had not been provided by manufacturers until recently, depending up the open source community to pony up the time & effort to support new hardware.

        • #2592518

          [b]I got an Ideal[/b]

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to Not entirely in defense of Vista but not faulting it either.

          [b]The sounds of a giggle, boo or applause for things the operator does during setup would be of help !. . . Or at least make it interesting [/b] My Phone works again means I can send nasty fax’s to the J.O. in Washington DC again
          and do they need it . .

      • #2592411

        Phhhhttttttt……………..

        by magpie_z ·

        In reply to This doesn’t surprise me for now

        Uninformed claptrap remark.

        • #2591090

          So do tell, what’s the solution

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Phhhhttttttt……………..

          NT

        • #2580947

          Yup,

          by magpie_z ·

          In reply to So do tell, what’s the solution

          I found the answer, but for some reason I just cannot see sharing my knowledge with those who would rather point fingers and not bother researching the solution for themselves.

          Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him how to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

        • #2580944

          Rats,

          by magpie_z ·

          In reply to Yup,

          I am not wired like my last message. If sevenex will let me know what type of sound he is using, discrete or integrated, and what model and Manu made the card or the MB I will give him the solution. Oh, yeah, I assume that he is using Vista.

    • #2592838

      The plot thickens

      by druuzil ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      I now have no audio at all, and cannot solve the issue. I have been screwing with it for 2 hours. It should not be this tough to get “sound” out of a computer. I have been building and modding PC’s for 10 years and I have NEVER had this kind of trouble all over something so completely ridiculous. I am 99% ready to re-install (AGAIN) with XP and give Microsoft about another 2 years before I put Vista back on ANY of my machines. God this is retarded.

      • #2592833

        Just get the drivers man.

        by breadtrk ·

        In reply to The plot thickens

        Just like when we went to your beloved XP some things needed drivers. The sound is created in software, it is not as simple as just plug it in and it should work, this ain’t a friggen radio.

        Maybe you are new at real tech; there is a succinct difference between being a tech and a modder.

        Try this; download Everest Home free edition, find out what flavor of sound device you have, go to that website and get Vista capable drivers. If you don’t see them, E-mial the tech support for them.

        I will never understand why some folks want to be bleeding edge and have the very latest OS and things but want to blame the new software and cry that it does not work before they have taken reasonable steps to resolve the issue.

        • #2592815

          I solved the problem

          by druuzil ·

          In reply to Just get the drivers man.

          I solved it by reinstalling XP and putting my Vista disk in a folder to collect dust. Oh look, I’m listening to a CD as I write this thread! It’s… it’s… AUDIO! So I guess when Vista told me I didn’t have a audio device connected to my system it was mistaken right?

          As for taking the appropriate steps… I spent 2 hours trying various driver combinations and installation procedures. I downloaded all the newest Vista drivers for both my SB Live card, as well as my onboard audio. That includes both AC’97 drivers and the drivers from Realteks’ site, as well as Creative Labs’ SB Live! 24 bit Vista driver, and any applicable utilities. In all cases, the drivers installed fine, and Vista would recognize that the hardware was installed in the device manager. Then it would insist I didn’t have any audio hardware in any applications that require sound. As for being bleeding edge… Vista is far from it. I only installed it because I a) got it free, and b) had the option to rollback to XP if I ran into issues (as I had been told was likely). The audio was fine until I tried installing the microphone, and after that it all went to he11 on me.

          In any case, I will wait a few months (6 sounds like a good number) and try it Vista again. Perhaps at that time they will have enough updates to solve basic issues like audio. Maybe…

        • #2592032

          Sound problems

          by william_m_cox ·

          In reply to I solved the problem

          I haven’t experience with Vista but I have had a similar problem in the past with W98. The crux of the problem was that the sound card drivers were flakey and the motherboard was cheap. Nevertheless, it worked fine until I installed and upgrade to Windows Media Player (v10 I think). I then got all the symptoms you’ve been describing – the machine locked up when you tried to use the microphone for chat or whatever. Webcam wouldn’t work the second time you went for it even though it had appeared to run fine when first installed, etc., etc. I went though all the stuff you described – scoured the web for new Realtek drivers, etc., etc., all seemed to install fine, but the next time you went for the mic the machine froze up again.
          How did I get over the problem? Similar to you really, I’m sorry to say. I did a motherboard/processor/RAM transplant and then installed XP. Tarah! Windows ran fine again.
          I’m not sure what to advise Mr. Mok – other than get an external drive and back up your data ASAP. The Dell sound card should be OK so sooner or later you’re probably going to have to reinstall the operating system if you’re going to clear your problem, so you may as well back your data up now. (Sorry) I’m also not completely incompetent in looking after computers but I simply didn’t have any success trying to get round it by reinstalling drivers even if in principle that should have been a solution. I don’t necessarily feel that Visa should be considered to be rubbish, and I understand that it can be disappointing when a perfectly serviceable piece of kit suddenly becomes useless when its been working fine for years (scanners come to mind, for example), and I tend to want to use equpment as long as it’s serviceable, but perhaps a combination of older hardware and newer operating systems sometimes won’t fly and isn’t worth the hassle of trying to overcome. Expenditure on new kit initially feels annoying but as soon as it runs more sweetly than the older stuff you don’t normally look back!

        • #2590924

          You got it free???

          by quasar kid ·

          In reply to I solved the problem

          Stop complaining about a freebie. You get what you pay for!

        • #2590789

          You don’t always get what you pay for

          by intrepi ·

          In reply to You got it free???

          I couldn’t begin to count how many times I’ve paid for something and didn’t get what I paid for. This is a cliche which has been misused too many times for too many reasons. Very little is free and we all pay for everything in some indirect way or fashion but you being a Quasar kid may not have lived long enough to discover that for yourself. Try and make some constructive commentary in your next post as it may be of some use to somebody.

        • #2592424

          AAAAALRIGHTY then, try this: TIME = $$$$$$$

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to You got it free???

          & this “freebie” as you call it cost him time.

          Who got what who paid for?

        • #2590910

          First SB Live is NOT supported by Vista!

          by mhyrllin ·

          In reply to I solved the problem

          Well it is not going to work if you use non-compliant hardware. According to Creative’s website, SB Live is not and WILL NOT be supported within Vista. At some point, manufacturers have to phase out support for vintage equipment for several reasons, cost effectiveness and protection of margins for new products being the primaries. You want bleeding edge OS, but don’t want to spend to get modern up to date hardware, you get problems. It’s always been this way. Windows wouldn’t run on an old Northstar system programmed by dip switches, neither will Unix or OS/2 or even CPM. You want modern, then stay modern. It’s the same with any technology. Quit harping on Microsoft folks, they do an excellent job given the myriads of equipment they support. For more than 98% of the computers their software is installed on, there is rarely a glitch of any sort. We hear about the one or two cases that do glitch… not about the thousands that go without a hitch.

        • #2590902

          SBLive/Audigy 1: Notorious for driver issues

          by jusovsky ·

          In reply to I solved the problem

          I bet you have the value edition of that card. There are MANY flavors of that piece of crap because every OEM manufacturer created a slightly different PCB. The ONLY drivers for them are the ones that came with the card. Vista’s just not forgiving when it comes to drivers. You either need to have the exact diver for your hardware, or it won’t accept it. Creative doesn’t provide drivers because they do not have a way of knowing what spcific version of the SBLive you have. This has been a big issue for Lives and older Audigy cards for Vista since the betas, and Creative has no plans to provide drivers for these. Your best bet is to pick up a basic Audigy 4. You probably won’t have problems then.

        • #2590892

          It’s still overkill

          by francoiswiid ·

          In reply to SBLive/Audigy 1: Notorious for driver issues

          “You either need to have the exact diver for your hardware, or it won’t accept it.”

          That happens a lot with drivers (especially old ones) and is completely acceptable. But a BSOD? Vista should just “not accept it”.

        • #2590834

          Protection mechanism

          by jusovsky ·

          In reply to It’s still overkill

          I think it’s a harsh sort of protection mechanism. When it senses something is really wrong, rather than letting you know and trying to get around it, Windows throws up its hands and bails. I’m not sure this is the only way or the best way, but it was designed as such by developers with a lot more experience and knowledge than you or I. It’s easy for us to criticize something we understand- there’s probably a reason. It’s like a user getting pissed off and saying Windows is crappy because they added a new hard drive and created a ginormous swap disk, but the computer still runs slow because there’s not enough physical RAM.

        • #2590841

          SB Dilemma

          by adamtorres ·

          In reply to SBLive/Audigy 1: Notorious for driver issues

          What is really strange is that Vista did not recognize my SBLive 5.1 sound card after a new install of Vista. However, it did recognize it and installed drivers from Windows Update. I have not tried connecting a mike to it.

          On the other hand, Vista did nothing for me either on install or with Windows Update on my plain jane SBLive card in another PC. Weird…

        • #2592414

          Not that weird, for “legacy”, ie old hardware.

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to SB Dilemma

          Although I’m sure your SBLive5.1 is just as adequate as the day you bought it, because it isn’t the current-generation (newest) from that brand, it’s less likely to be included on the install disc, but since it’s a major brand, it is likely to be included in the vast repository of Windows Updates.

        • #2590890

          Congratulations – now get a Mac

          by vbnomad ·

          In reply to I solved the problem

          Glad to hear you can hear again. Does anyone remember Microsoft releasing a major OS without driver issues? Waiting 6 months sounds like a good idea. As with Xp, ME, and W95 upgraders with older hardware users are the 1st casualties. Buy new hardware with the new OS on it and your odds of it all working go way up.

          I write windows programs for a living. I have all my personal computing on a mac. The PC with it’s OS’ in varying states of stability, is only for development. Music, video, graphics, email, personal web browsing – all are on the mac. You can keep beating yourself if it feels good or offers a challenge; but when I just want things to work, I use my Mac.

        • #2590782

          I’m using linux and XP but waiting for the Leopard to pounce

          by intrepi ·

          In reply to Congratulations – now get a Mac

          I’ll likely follow your lead as I like it when everything just works without a lot of ado about downloading, installing and wondering about what’s causing a new found problem. I believe Mac’s new OSx will be an OS that will have some real WOW with new ways of doing things with graphics. Apple has never really taken a back seat to any OS when it came to graphics, I expect it to go beyond Vista’s present capabilities with Directx 10

        • #2591890

          I’m tired of these “get a mac” people.

          by mjwx ·

          In reply to Congratulations – now get a Mac

          I use my home PC for gaming, now lets ignore the fact that games are made for windows (I don’t like windows either but a Mac is no PC alternative) which is a money issue (MS throwing money at publishers to use DirectX).

          We have a marketing division in the company I work for that uses Mac’s and I’m the admin for that division so I know what can go wrong with these machines. They are pretty much designed for the niche market of graphic designers and this is reflected in the limited amount of software available for them.

          The Macintosh is really a poor platform for gaming or pretty much anything besides writing emails graphic design and browsing the web. Gaming tends to push hardware to their limits which has two effects that make Macintoshes really unsuitable, the first being that you cant upgrade the hardware yourself, the HD, Optical drive and processor are sealed. You also have no choice in what you can upgrade to, only what Apple allows. I am aware if you buy the AU$5000 Mac Pro you can open it like an ordinary PC, but I shouldn’t have to spend AU$5000 for that feature.

          The first being that Hardware breaks, this is a given no matter what platform you are using. The problem with this is that you cant change the hardware yourself in a Mac (specifically Imac), you need to send them to an authorised Apple service centre to be serviced with Authorised Apple parts. out of the 5 Mac’s we’ve had in production, 3 have broken, 1 G3 had to be retired, one G4 Imac suffered a HDD failure and had sent away to be repaired (took 2 days for a 5 minute job) and another G4 Imac had a PSU blow up (wouldn’t have happened if the user shut down his machine over the weekend like I told him to) this took 4 days to fix because the service centre had to order it in (there should have been a spare on the shelf). A PSU should take no more than 1 hour to install in a desktop PC and this includes the time needed to drive to the shop and buy one.

          Mac’s are quiet limited in what they can do and now are suject to moores law that same as Windows/Linux boxes. Also they are still more expensive, my gaming PC cost AU$1900 with no OS (AMD X2 6000, 2 GB Ram, Geforce 8800 GTS) a G5 Imac cost our company AU$2800 (Core 2 Duo 2 GHZ, 2 GB Ram, Radeon X1600) Without a warranty (I built my own gaming PC which doesn’t have a warranty, I insist on being fair in this test). For AU$700 less I bought a PC with was more capable than a Mac.

        • #2591662

          Right, but the world doesn’t revolve around gaming

          by vbnomad ·

          In reply to I’m tired of these “get a mac” people.

          For geeks who love tinkering with hardware, or thrill to pushing hardware to it’s limits in Extreme gaming – sure PCs or Unix boxes are great. But when I recommend Macs, I’m recommending them to the non-geek home user. email, web browsing, music, video, pictures… the simple stuff that most home users do. You just want to turn on your computer appliance and use it. They are sealed, so you can’t tinker, and they do break, and are built with planned obsolescence in mind, like all appliances.

          Incidentally, when you point out a 5 minute job taking 2 days, did you remove travel time? Or are you comparing apples and oranges for dramatic effect?

        • #2592586

          lol i agree they dont advertise wat a mac cant do

          by sexually arroused by pc internal bits ·

          In reply to I’m tired of these “get a mac” people.

          yeh thats probs da best thing i red on ere,
          n i must agree wiv ya there windows may not be perfect, i mean look there still fixin issues relating to xp, and thats been out for years, n yeh i really dont like microsoft but can ya play all the games on linux or mac. i dont think so, they are workin on an emulator though, coz microsoft are so tight, why dont they hire ppl that actually kno how to program, or better yet wait till at least most the bugs are fixed, not just so the operating system is stable wiv certain stuff, coz ppl are always gonna be tryin to see if one thing works wiv it, wat about the ppl that like to play around with the computer, n why not just upgrade windows xp n carry on with that, and make that “secure” so we dont have to use after market products to do the job, or just stop lyin to the public just to boost sales, seen the price of vista and now theres i think 4 versons to choose from, which was sort of weird whats gonna happen when the basic user buys the basic verson of vista and then decides 6 month when he/she learnt bit more that he/she want to do more, and have more control, the interface of vista ah now there just taking the piss, they should learn from the linux os and the mac but yeh as for operating systems they all have there good points, they all have there bad points, if ya like havin a variaty of software to choose from ya stuck wiv microsoft 🙁 if ya wanna play all the gr8 games yah stuck wiv microsoft, but not stuck wiv vista 😀 idda wait a year or so till anyone gets it, i tried vista well me boss is good to me 😀 n i got it for free n now im back to windows xp, there aint half as many issues wiv it, not now anyway

        • #2592426

          2 sound cards installed at once — no wonder!

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to I solved the problem

          I’d love to blame Microsoft for hunger, war, disease and my spilled beer, but I could have told you that trying to operate two sound cards simultaneously on the same system is one of the most likely ways to bork something. Not that it can’t be done, but it tends to be much more than twice as challenging as just running one sound card.

        • #2592409

          Well . . .

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to 2 sound cards installed at once — no wonder!

          It’s a lot easier to get working correctly on certain non-Microsoft operating systems.

        • #2591109

          for example:

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Well . . .

          Debian, Mandriva, Red Hat & Fedora.

          From what I have heard, I would expect similar ease of installation with the BSD’s, but I haven’t tried them myself.

        • #2590956

          I don’t know either.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to for example:

          I’ve never had occasion to look into multiple sound devices in FreeBSD, so I don’t know first-hand how easy (or difficult) setting it up for that purpose would be. Judging by the fact that configuring sound on FreeBSD is actually much easier, in my experience, than on any Linux distribution, I’d have to guess that using multiple sound adapters would be easier on FreeBSD as well.

          I ran across something that discussed multiple sound devices on a FreeBSD machine a while back, and I seem to recall that it looked pretty damned easy, but I haven’t tried it myself — so I can’t really vouch for its ease personally.

        • #2582541

          Its even faster !

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to for example:

          Linux of those versions are easier
          I have installed stuff in a computer and even during installation it found everything and made it work . . Then just doing things like plugging in a thumb drive and blip its there on the screen and asking me if I want to open the files . . Or plugging in a USB port extra drive click and its on the screen change speakers and its there what ever you change its there in seconds . . I made a OLD EPSON C40UX printer work when some one else said it does not work for them took a bit of time for Linux to sort out driver for it but it loaded and the printer works ! Printed out the stuff I typed on the OPEN SOURCE Word Processing in 26 point something like qwrg ;bvmasnd in all four corners of the page just to test it out and not waste gobs of paper . .

      • #2590839

        Leave a little room for a non perfect OS as Vista is new

        by intrepi ·

        In reply to The plot thickens

        I’m not here to put Vista down or load it with praise as I’ll leave that for the lovers and haters in this forum. You know or should know that Windows in every version has had initial start up problems with drivers, hardware and software. Countless reviews have advised to stay away from Vista until SP1 comes out for the very reasons you and others are having with it. Vista should not have loaded non certified drivers as this was something that Microsoft has had in place so either it works or it doesn’t. Either way, the driver or hardware you tried to install and load has caused Vista to crash. For all intensive purposes, the driver is no different than a virus as the results are pretty much the same. If Vista was secure and it was supposed to refuse to load non compliance hardware or non certified drivers then who do you blame, yourself, Vista, your hardware, Microsoft or the company who made the microphone ? When one bellies up to the bar, plunks down his cash and takes a drink,
        nobody is going to guarantee he’ll like it.

      • #2590818

        Try the PClinuxOS

        by jackie40d1 ·

        In reply to The plot thickens

        It has a very good supply of drivers and will run a lot of your stuff out of the box . .
        It a runs in memory till you decide to install it and you can see if the sound works as you like before you use it . . I have 2 Linux O/S’s to check out before I figure out which I will suggest to people as an alternative to Windows O/S . .

        • #2590793

          This OS has it’s own issues as does my Xandros Pro 4

          by intrepi ·

          In reply to Try the PClinuxOS

          Every version of Linux, Windows and Mac have issues that some can live with, others can’t and suggesting another OS is not always the solution to a problem if they are forced to use Windows for mandatory reasons. I like linux, I like every OS but I can’t use Windows anymore because of it’s licensing terms and conditions.
          However, I won’t bash it or praise it as it has issues as nobody cares, they just want somebody to listen to their problems and try to get somebody to help them fix them. Going to another OS is not going to fix Vista problems as Microsoft needs to be made aware of what the problems are as does the hardware manufacturers.

        • #2591874

          MS needs a reason to care

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to This OS has it’s own issues as does my Xandros Pro 4


          Going to another OS is not going to fix Vista problems as Microsoft needs to be made aware of what the problems are as does the hardware manufacturers.

          MS is motivated by money, that’s what the investors want and that’s how it is for the chosen business model. The initial product is sold for profit and once that initial sales profit is made; best of luck unless your buying the extended warrenty or a business service contract. (Last time I called MS for tech support, the call started with “this service call is billable, do you wish to continue.”)

          What MS needs is a reason to care. If enough users move to another desktop then MS profit margins take a hit and suddenly, MS cares. Kick them square in the wallet and they’ll double over and listen.

          As it is now, you have to be a big business class client to get MS ear. As johny home user, try giving them a call and see to what extent they are interested. As johny IT executive, give them a call and watch them fall overthemselves to keep that service contract lucritive.

          Just making MS aware of your indavidual issues with an OS product won’t likely garner much response (I truly wish it did, but ..). One of the motivations behind FOSS (distant motivation perhaps but none the less) is to drive MS into producing quality products or to have them realize a reduction in market share.

          Either outcome is in the better interests of the consumer rather than investor and the few MS employees who get more than a modest annual income.

        • #2592585

          terms and conditions? wat are they

          by sexually arroused by pc internal bits ·

          In reply to This OS has it’s own issues as does my Xandros Pro 4

          i dint fink anyone read them, well ok i read one from some company but it was long so correction i glanst through it.

        • #2590763

          Don’t tell everybody….

          by fxef ·

          In reply to Try the PClinuxOS

          Never suggest to a user that just dumped big bucks for Vista to try a free open source OS. They already feel a little on the stupid side, payed all those bucks for an OS that does not function properly. If they see all the advantages of Linux and the fact that it’s free; they may fall off the deep end. Now you would not want that on your conscience, would you?

          I never suggest Linux to a Windows user…. I just laugh at them all the way to the bank.

        • #2590723

          It’s people like yourself…

          by ivefallen ·

          In reply to Don’t tell everybody….

          that do the Linux community a great disservice.

        • #2592447

          I disagree.

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to It’s people like yourself…

          I haven’t seen that character around here much, so I’d call that one trash-talking post a small disservice, not a great one!

          :^0

        • #2591239

          True. Good point.***

          by ivefallen ·

          In reply to I disagree.

          No message.

        • #2591870

          The trick is knowing the user and there needs

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to Don’t tell everybody….

          I know, call me crazy for considering the user’s needs and all but I’m not going to call someone who’s just dropped a bundle on a Vista license an idiot for making the choice. If I talk to them before, I’ll mention other options and let them make an informed decision. Heck, the may be a gamer so winXP or Vista is pretty much the options they can choose from if they’re after the latest and greatest graphic novelty. (My winXP partition exists now for games 90% of the time) You can’t just call someone a twit and think they’re going to be open to your flavour of OS.

          Now, I’ve got friends and neibours I wouldn’t recommend Linux too quite yet (Ubuntu may have it now though pending user testing) but I’ve also thrown liveCDs at people without a second thought. It’s not a one OS fits all world any more than it’s a one Windows fits all world; regardless of what marketing claims.

          You where bang on the money until the elitist prick comment about laughing all the way to the bank.

        • #2592532

          Well I guess they have one

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to Don’t tell everybody….

          They have tried to pay me for FREE software
          and I accept pictures of dead Presidents on green paper . . No Problems accepting MONEY here . .

        • #2592445

          Strangely put, but true.

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Don’t tell everybody….

          I wasn’t receptive to what I was told about Linux, the first time I was told about it, partly because it sounded “too good to be true”, and so I assumed it must be, and partly because if it did prove true, I would have had to feel, as you said very well, “a little on the stupid side” because I had just “payed all those bucks for an OS that does not function properly,” not to mention the [b]time[/b] I had invested, to learn to [b]make it[/b] function adequately. Better late than never, but better early than late when it comes to Linux/GNU. I think the best time to tell Windows users about Linux is when they’re considering buying the new Windows, not just after they did, which if I understand correctly was the main point you made.

    • #2592780

      Vista user Smacked down by ignorance

      by fil0403 ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      Here is a prime example of why you’re a dumb ignorant: that’s fault of the headset driver, not Vista’s fault. If you put tires on your car that are not suitable for your car, you think the car is to blame when you have an accident?

      • #2592769

        What driver, lol

        by druuzil ·

        In reply to Vista user Smacked down by ignorance

        It’s an old Compaq headset. There is no driver software for it. If drivers of ANY kind were required for its operation then any version of windows would ask for software or at least say “new hardware has been installed” when you plug it in for the first time. This is not the case with this headset, and to clear up this issue for you regardless of whether or not the mic was installed the audio still did not work after a certain point. I cleared out all my audio devices (drivers and utilities) and installed both individually and then together fresh. Windows still did not recognize them as being there outside of the device manager.

        Do yourself a favor and quit with the preconcieved judgements. You weren’t here and as such cannot claim to know what steps I took to solve the issue (other than the fact that I just told you). Nobody likes a jerk, let alone one with an ego. If you can’t offer “advice” to solve a problem, I suggest you keep your pie-hole shut.

        Any questions?

        • #2590909

          Getting testy?

          by jusovsky ·

          In reply to What driver, lol

          “Do yourself a favor and quit with the preconcieved judgements.”

          Maybe it’s your hardware, Sassafrass. Blaming it on Vista sounds like a preconceived judgment. Calling an operating system “crap” just because some fringe hardware doesn’t work with it is like saying your microwave is a piece of junk because you’ve put a faulty part into it. It’s not the onus of Microsoft to provide drivers for every manufacturer’s devices. They do their best to help, but at the end of the day, perhaps you should look for other sources of blame before pointing the finger of blame at Vista.

          “Nobody likes a jerk, let alone one with an ego.”

          Well, isn’t this quaint? Someone who says Vista is crap because they’re using a crappy headset gets pissy when someone doesn’t stroke them! My advice to you?

          “…I suggest you keep your pie-hole shut.”

        • #2590695

          Hardware issue?

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Getting testy?

          He said Vista BSODed. That’s not a hardware issue.

        • #2590684

          That’s right.

          by jusovsky ·

          In reply to Hardware issue?

          You actually think faulty hardware can’t BSOD Windows or cause a kernel panic or be the cause of an “sad Mac” screen???

        • #2590652

          Yes, I do.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to That’s right.

          It’s not faulty hardware that causes these problems — it’s the inability of the OS to handle error states with grace.

        • #2590636

          Regardless…

          by jusovsky ·

          In reply to Yes, I do.

          The reality of the situation is that the hardware is the root cause of the problem- not how the software is designed. Even if the operating system could blush, giggle, and apologize, there’s still a hardware issue at hand.

        • #2590635

          yes and no

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Yes, I do.

          There may be a hardware issue at hand, but plugging in, say, a wooden socket plug shouldn’t cause a BSOD — so plugging in a microphone shouldn’t either. The only way the microphone is to blame for the entire OS taking a dump is if the microphone so significantly alters voltage levels that either the rest of the hardware isn’t getting enough power to run the OS (in which case the OS would disappear entirely and the system would reboot, or something along those lines) or the system is fried (in which case other hardware failures of a more catastrophic and permanent variety occur).

          Anything like a BSOD is a software problem, not a hardware problem. Yes, it might be a [b]reaction[/b] to a hardware problem, but that doesn’t mean it [b]is[/b] a hardware problem — and such a reaction is, itself, a problem, as no software should react that way to a hardware issue.

        • #2591884

          I beleive he said he was using the default Vista drivers

          by mjwx ·

          In reply to That’s right.

          So this is most definitely a MS issue as the user in question was using a Microsoft issued driver.

          A headset is in now way unstable hardware like a brand new video card or wireless card (both have given me headaches in the past), the design of a Microphone/Headphone has not changed in decades. It should in no way, shape or form cause the OS to BSOD, a simple crash would have been explainable but not a BSOD.

        • #2591872

          don’t bother

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to I beleive he said he was using the default Vista drivers

          Some of these people just don’t want to admit the possibility that Vista has flaws.

        • #2591702

          Hard to say

          by jusovsky ·

          In reply to I beleive he said he was using the default Vista drivers

          We really don’t know what exactly caused the BSOD. It could have been the driver (which may or may not have been written by MS, whether it was provided by them or not), the sound card might be faulty, the headset could be doing something funky, or it could be something completely unrelated. I’ve run across some wacky things that happened due to bad RAM. I have a broken Microcenter flash drive that freezes both XP and RedHat when it’s inserted(but things return to normal when I remove it), and cycles power to a Macintosh G4 I tried. A bad piece of hardware can really make a machine behave funny.
          As for the source of the drivers, in a later post, he said he tried the drivers from the manufacturers for the two audio interfaces in his system and had the same results. It would be interesting to see what hapened if the headset were plugged into a different machine. The problem is that there are so many variables and uncertainties that without taking some serious time to experiment, we shouldn’t be assigning blame to anyone.

        • #2591868

          hehe.. that was a nice response

          by neon samurai ·

          In reply to What driver, lol

          A little hostile but seemed an equal response to the comment.

          As for the actual issue, give it till next patch tuesday. If it’s a common issue, they’ll hopefully address it. If they don’t address it; Vista is still a beta product until SP1. Until games force DX10, there’s no compelling reason to move past winXP.

        • #2592580

          Edited by moderator

          by sexually arroused by pc internal bits ·

          In reply to What driver, lol

          Edited

          Message was edited by: beth.blakely@…

        • #2592548

          turnoffs include misspelling the word “aroused” …

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Edited by moderator

          and other careless errors in trivially easy tasks.

      • #2590904

        Flip

        by francoiswiid ·

        In reply to Vista user Smacked down by ignorance

        It’s a flippin piece of plastic with 2 speakers and a jack! Why BSOD the computer about it?!

        • #2590692

          Technically . . .

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Flip

          It’s wire, metal contacts, magnets, and a resonating surface of some kind. All one does to make it work is, on the speaker side, send voltage to the magnets to cause the magnetic field to fluctuate, and on the microphone side, apply vibration to the resonating surface so that the magnets move in relation to each other, generating voltage. The plastic is irrelevant.

          The technology of the hardware is exactly the same technology we’ve been using for decades, and the problem of interoperating with the hardware has been solved for many, many years. The fact that Vista had a stroke when it encountered the thing is, as you imply, simply ludicrous and generally unacceptable for something that’s billed as a technological advancement.

        • #2590672

          Back to the …Past

          by francoiswiid ·

          In reply to Technically . . .

          It gives you the feeling that Windows is going backwards and the price skywards… O well, I’ll stick to XP x64 till I don’t get daily newsletters with 5 topics each about problems with Vista… Or maby Linux Looking Glass…

        • #2590650

          the wayback machine

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Back to the …Past

          I tend to reach even further back these days — I prefer FreeBSD, built on a tradition of about forty years of Unix.

        • #2592521

          Interesting point, orthogonal sort of way.

          by daveo2000 ·

          In reply to Technically . . .

          Sorry, couldn’t help but use that term… even if not exactly correctly 🙂

          There are several different technologies of microphones available. The kind you mention (magnet/coil based) is, I believe, the more expensive and less frequently employed type. More frequently, if I remember correctly, is a piezo-electric type that varies the resistence in the line (with rest state being relatively higher resistence).

          Maybe this might be a viable path to investigate since I don’t think we currently know what type of mic is being used. Did this same mic work with an XP installation?

          After all, it wouldn’t be the first time a developer could remove “testing code” from (for instance) a driver simply because they were unaware of the need for keeping it.

          Whatcha think?

        • #2591091

          Very acute observation!

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Interesting point, orthogonal sort of way.

          Do you think you can do worse than that?

          ]:)

        • #2590961

          Maybe I was being obtuse about it…

          by daveo2000 ·

          In reply to Very acute observation!

          well… maybe that wasn’t quite “worse”… I will have to think on that. 😀

        • #2590949

          Oh, no, get your barf bags…

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Maybe I was being obtuse about it…

          That wasn’t obtuse, it was just on the opposite side of orthogonal from the previous acute observation!

          :^0

          [TR: please add ‘barf’ emoticon, a crucial element in any site’s repertoire of silly faces. thanks!]

      • #2590860

        Vista is not supposed to load non certified drivers

        by intrepi ·

        In reply to Vista user Smacked down by ignorance

        This seems to be a catch 22 snag as it was my understanding that Microsoft required drivers to be certified or they wouldn’t be loaded. If this is not the case, then why does Vista load some drivers and not others ? I mean Vista is supposed to be secure and not allow software to corrupt it’s operating system. If a driver is able to corrupt Vista, then what is the difference between this driver and a virus ? Can’t have it both ways, either it’s secure or it’s not ? Blame the driver, blame Vista or blame Microsoft for telling us it’s secure ? Have your own thoughts but don’t blame me for bringing this up as none of these issues were initiated by me, so give Vista some credit for turning blue.

        • #2590690

          Credit?

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Vista is not supposed to load non certified drivers

          An OS is “secure” if it isn’t brought to its knees by something it doesn’t like. It’s not “secure” if encountering something against which it’s supposed to protect you crashes the OS.

      • #2590810

        Wrong

        by rhomp20029 ·

        In reply to Vista user Smacked down by ignorance

        If Vista is supposed to be so secure that
        it will only load things it will support
        and refuse to load things it won’t support,
        then why was this person able to load it
        and hook it up in the first place. Vista
        should have said then that it was not good
        and not even try it. That is what M$ tells
        us it is supposed to do.

        Why on earth people keep buying this crappy
        OS is beyond me. You load it, spend
        hours every week making sure it doesn’t get
        malware, virus, spyware, etc and it still
        doesn’t do what it tells you it is supposed
        to do. Then if you try anything out of
        the ordinary it says you are doing
        something illegal and you have to call for
        a new license or a new registration or it
        won’t work at all. True case of S&M.

        And then you love the beating you are
        taking at that!

        • #2592576

          viruses wat spyware whats dat

          by sexually arroused by pc internal bits ·

          In reply to Wrong

          spyware n viruses lol id say dunt use virus scanners all i got is a firewall if sum1 hacks me pc or it gers a virus just stick in da recovery disk of me hard drive i only got music n stuff on it oh yeh n i mess about wiv home vids dat ger recorded on me cam 😛 n i use it for chat sumtimes i play games but if it nacks up i just make backup of save game sorted

      • #2582670

        Actually

        by ghostbrowser ·

        In reply to Vista user Smacked down by ignorance

        If the computer had sound device there would be no problem
        Except no sound

        But it cannot be said
        If Vista disabled the sound device there would be no problem

        But it would work unless the hardware had a problem

    • #2592018

      a possibility

      by jdkatz23 ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      When a headphone is plugged in some sound drivers have the option of automatically changing from, for example, 5.1 to stereo sound. If the drivers aren’t installed properly — crash. Thus, a simple little headset (hardware) can crash the sound driver (software). I’ve had a similar problem with XP and an Audigy notebook card switching from 7.1 to stereo when I plugged in a headset. Or plugging in a mic (maybe the mic/line option). Reinstalled XP, same hardware, now it works.

      • #2590827

        Vista is supposed to refuse to load non certified drivers

        by intrepi ·

        In reply to a possibility

        Vista refuses to load some software and hardware as well as some drivers that aren’t certified by Microsoft. Vista is supposed to be more secure than XP, I agree it is but if Vista allows itself to load software drivers that are capable of making it crash, then what is the difference between the driver, the software or a virus ? Vista decides what to allow, not allow and chooses the methods to which it’s going to employ it. When this kind of event happens, it only shows that most of the reviewers reviewing Vista were correct. They advised us to wait until the bugs were out, the dust had settled and MS had released SP1. If you chose to ignore the advice, then live with what comes as every version of Windows has had the same issues with hardware, drivers and software which is what prompted Microsoft to come out with the certification of drivers. I admit that money was also a factor in it but regardless you can’t make excuses unless of course you want to believe Vista is a perfect OS.

    • #2592012

      Curious

      by jcalexandres ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      Hi, sorry you had to see that horrible screen of death, but out of curiosity … did you upgrade your system or got a brand new PC running Vista on it, and if so, what version of Vista are you using?

      Thank you!

      • #2592002

        EXCELLENT QUESTION!

        by binary b!tch ·

        In reply to Curious

        Just what I was thinking. Often upgrades are not nearly as stable in performance as clean installs. I have been running VIsta Ultimate on a TOshiba Satellite for months now with no issues and I do a great of audio work and use voice recognition [Dragon] all the time. The specs of your machine config would seriously help us to help you without any judgements.
        regards

        • #2591979

          Still shouldn’t get BSOD

          by paredown ·

          In reply to EXCELLENT QUESTION!

          After all the hype about Vista creating a more stable and protected kernel, the fact that plugging in any device would cause the BSOD makes me think the claims about greater protection for the kernel are only hype.

          A driver/device level conflict (especially if the OS has acknowledged their existence by “installing” them) SHOULD be handled more gracefully, especially since MS have claimed this is an OS where kernel protection has been stressed in its development.

          Always clean installs, though, and always find all the drivers you think you will possibly need (and multiple choices for audio and video since it is such a morass) & burn ’em onto one CD…

          my 2 cents

        • #2590901

          Brilliant suggestion

          by zclayton2 ·

          In reply to Still shouldn’t get BSOD

          Wonder why I haven’t ever seen that one before.

          It seems obvious, but it has never ocurred to burn drivers to one CD for (re)installs.

        • #2580453

          Yep!

          by mylittlemansanidiot ·

          In reply to Brilliant suggestion

          I’ve always compiled a CD (now dvd) of new drivers (with multiple versions) prior to any new OS installation. I also, as a rule, never install any manufacturer/3rd party written hardware management tools for video cards, sound cards and motherboards because they’re usually badly coded pieces of junk that cause more bloat than they’re worth. And it would seem that some optional (or perhaps non-optional, in that it was part of the driver installation package) sound card management software was the cause of the OP’s BSOD, in that it detected a device was plugged into the input on his soundcard and queried what device it was (as was suggested in an earlier post).

          It’s been my experience that these manufacturer/3rd party written management programs cause oodles of OS problems, and are completely unnessecary because pretty much anything they do can be handled by Windows control panel (with the exception of things like EAX for SB cards, which are merely useless bells and whistles).

          So if given the option to install the Super Whizbang Control Panel X-omatic 2000! (adding 2000 and an exclamation mark to ANYTHING makes it better!), just say no! =P

        • #2582528

          Never thought of making a DVD

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to Yep!

          I usually keep a copy of the drivers for stuff I have installed for people on their computers
          ( I make and sell custom made computers ) Never thought of making it on a DVD-RW and keeping the files on there . . Would save time just one DVD and drag it around in my case . . I know of People ( customers ) whom seem to delete stuff for no reason and then wonder why the computer does not work ! Or go into the control panel and do strange things . . . . There are times I would like to open their heads and see whats inside of it . .
          Reminds me got to send an e-mail to one to remind her to run the Tuneup Utilities 2007 program so it deletes the extra junk and keeps her computer running . . Plus the SpyDoctor program to delete the what ever things . .

        • #2590691

          intrinsic to proprietary but ‘interoperable’ business model

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to Still shouldn’t get BSOD

          Apple writes all their own software, and encounters this problem much less.

          GNU/Linux makes all source code available, and requires all compatible programs to do the same, thereby also encountering far fewer BSOD errors, according to my casual observation.

          Microsoft’s difficulty with BSOD is that by agreeing to ‘work with’ third-party hardware vendors, but not to provide their actual source code, those unfortunate programmers at Creative, nVidia, ATI [now AMD], etc. are stuck really guessing a lot about what will be compatible with an OS they cannot read.

          In both the Apple and GNU/Linux models, application & driver programmers write code to be compatible with source code they can actually [u]read[/u]. Microsoft’s intellectual property terms force his “partners” to work in the dark, so to speak.

    • #2590852

      Vista has had, will have and continue to have initial problems

      by intrepi ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      This is an old issue that pops up everytime a new OS comes out as all the previous versions of Windows went through the initial problems with drivers, software and hardware conflicts.
      I’m not excusing Vista though as Microsoft has told us that Vista is secure and it drivers were not certified, Vista wouldn’t load them.
      Now, maybe it’s the driver, maybe it’s the related hardware but if it is, then Vista should have refused to load or attempt to load it. This driver is no different than a virus as the result was much the same. Vista is not supposed to be “knocked out” by any virus, driver or anything else. It was Mr Gates who said bring it on but wasn’t specific in saying what it was supposed to be

    • #2590815

      Vista headset issues…

      by buhlig ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      Its an odd issue if your headset causes a BSOD is it a bluetooth or usb headset? Vista has behaved for the most part for me, however the one thing that i know is a Vista issue is when I reboot the workstation the +20db gain to mic output always comes back unchecked even though I recheck it every time.

    • #2590729

      My $0.02

      by nwix ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      If the microphone in question is not USB, but instead is the normal tip-ring round eighth inch connector, then your initial blue screen was likely NOT a driver or OS issue as this type of hardware has no driver.

      It is more likely that you managed to zap it with an ESD when you plugged it in.

      • #2590647

        Perhaps you can explain something.

        by apotheon ·

        In reply to My $0.02

        How does an ESD cause a BSOD? Seriously. The BSOD is what happens when software reaches a conflict state — in other words, it’s like someone’s idea of exception handling is to dump error information to STDOUT and hang the program. An ESD should not have that effect. I’m having a pretty difficult time imagining how that would even be a possible outcome of an ESD — technically possible, but only in the same sense that all the atoms in a playing card at rest on a table spontaneously reorder themselves to change it from a jack of diamonds to a six of hearts.

        So . . . how would an ESD lead to a BSOD?

        By the way, drivers for some sound cards (the mic was presumably plugged into a sound card) are these days designed to detect voltage fluctuations that indicate the insertion of a peripheral jack into the corresponding socket on the sound card. The driver management software may then perform some automated function in a manner similar in effect to the way USB devices are auto-configured. If the OS has issues with handling this, [b]that[/b] might cause a BSOD.

        • #2591699

          Uhhh… sure

          by nwix ·

          In reply to Perhaps you can explain something.

          Zap. ESD goes to ground…on the way bits get changed and the next instruction executed is from some random memroy location. Presto instant BSOD.

        • #2592635

          Like I said . . .

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Uhhh… sure

          . . . it’s a bit like all the atoms in a playing card spontaneously rearranging themselves to change the the suit/value of the card. Sure, it’s technically possible, but absurdly unlikely.

        • #2592547

          I believe the original post said “BSOD until mic unplugged”

          by daveo2000 ·

          In reply to Uhhh… sure

          If the problem was a momentary zap creating some random instruction, wouldn’t that instruction go away on reboot? I believe the poster said that rebooting failed until the mic was removed from the jack.

          I’m guessing here but this sounds like something wrong with the driver and the driver may only be employed when the system detects a mic to be present. When the mic is not present, the OS would not access the mic driver, right?

    • #2591955

      Look outside the square

      by greg ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      I also used to blame Windows 95, 98, ME and XP for every problem. I have found many other issues that are to blame. I had a PC that locked up every time a USB device was plugged in and My Computer took 15 seconds to open. A 250W power supply was replaced with a 400W and presto the PC works perfectly. That could be your problem Gaming computers use heaps of power and the Mic is the straw that breaks it. PC builders usually go with the cheapest option. The MIC could be faulty, to blame Vista is too easy. We blame Microsoft too much and not the hardware and software manufactures that build very poor products.

      • #2591697

        Yup

        by mmwhittier ·

        In reply to Look outside the square

        Amen!

      • #2592536

        CP/M used to hang or crash if a disk drive was opened

        by daveo2000 ·

        In reply to Look outside the square

        (was it only during a write operation?).

        CP/M was often criticized for this problem and no modern OS would be allowed to show its metaphorical face if it fell victim to this problem.

        If the OS cannot protect itself from its drivers then the OS was, indeed, smacked down by the issue.

        I find it interesting food for thought that a lot of complaints about Windows are blamed on drivers bringing down the OS. This has been the case for a long time now, hasn’t it? If the source code of the drivers or kernel were available for everybody to look at then these issues could be evaluated by a much larger community of folks that understand this type of issue far better than most of us would be able to do.

        Barring that, shouldn’t there be error handling code to intercept this type of thing?

    • #2591779

      New PC

      by burkew0 ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      If the PC was purchased with VISTA on it then
      the blame falls squarely on MS & the hardware manufacturer. A new preloaded PC should never blue screen by plugging in a microphone. In twenty years, I’ve never seen a PC blues screen by plugging in a microphone or speakers. Definitely a new LOW for the Redmond boys.

    • #2591726

      Try using a different program

      by mmwhittier ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      I’ve used Ventrilo with no problems whatsoever and I don’t get the annoying static that I did with Teamspeak. Don’t be so quick to call Vista crap. Every OS out there has problems accomodating different programs — especially if it’s not written for a particular OS.

    • #2592434

      look at the big picture

      by stumilty ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      I’m not saying that vista is perfect, but it is not solely to blame for any problems. The problem is that unlike Apple, Microsoft and hardware manufacturers don’t work in sync with each other. MacOS works so good because the OS and hardware are designed to work together, but being able to upgrade a component in the system is not as easy as with PC’s. Because of this ‘flexibility’ It is hard for MS to produce an OS that will be completely stable. If Microsoft started to develop hardware as well, then their OS’s will be stable like the MacOS. So the problem is not just Vista. It is Vista as well as the driver programmers as well as the hardware manufacturers. They are all to blame.

      • #2591008

        That picture is very BIG. How about a print, about 1/4 scale?

        by absolutely ·

        In reply to look at the big picture

        I think you’re right, and your post didn’t really call for any comment, so I posted a joke to draw attention to your keen observation. I hope you don’t object.

        🙂

    • #2580887

      smacked down by something else

      by inertman9 ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      i have been using vista since beta 1 and have never hadit bsd. obviously that doesn’t mean it couldn’t, but i does make me wonder about your set-up, both hardware andwhat else you have done to it. presently i am using retail ultimate, both 32 & 64, and had no trouble installing a bluetooth dongle and then a jabra 500 headset, to then tryout the voice options. maybe you need to look between the chair and the keyboard for your problem or maybe it’s the builder you need to ask.

      • #2580880

        Ya it’s the users fault!

        by jmgarvin ·

        In reply to smacked down by something else

        Never blame MS for the OSs short comings, it’s always PEBKAC!

        • #2581344

          Careful . . .

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to Ya it’s the users fault!

          The previous poster may be too short — your sarcasm may go over his/her head.

        • #2581310

          LMAO at this !

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to Careful . . .

          What if they are tall and it ran into them ?
          Like smacked them about the head . .

        • #2581271

          Then . . .

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to LMAO at this !

          . . . maybe (s)he would learn something.

        • #2582920

          not neccessarily

          by inertman9 ·

          In reply to Ya it’s the users fault!

          and that was only one possibility i mentioned,m along w/ many i didn’t. also the manufacturer of the system in question, or even by similar virtue, the sound card driver. i do find it very hard to believe, if not impossible, that pluging in a mic caused a crash all by it’s lonesome. anyone who actually believes this might want to help me move $1.6 billion out of kenya, just give me you bank info and we’ll get started.

        • #2582913

          My hypothesis has been proven!

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to not neccessarily

          Am I amazing or what? Eh?

        • #2582842

          I concurr !

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to not neccessarily

          Its why I ask about the mic and if they had used it in another computer before . . to me it sounds like a shorted Mic or a bad cord shorted some place . . But I guess you men never listen to ladies as per normal you keep on pushing the same button and expect something different Its like one of my clients whom wants to add a different driver to a modem than what supposed to be there So I quit bothering to remove it and make it right so the computer runs good . . Its his computer So let him scream its not working and let him find the problem and fix it . . Takes me like 15 minutes to fix it, when he gets tired of playing like he knows something (maybe DOS he knew something) but in XP forget it !

        • #2582790

          Shorts shouldn’t cause a BSOD.

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to I concurr !

          BSODs are software error states, not the result of hardware failures. Something like a short should only [b]indirectly[/b] cause a BSOD, such as by degrading some of the electronics in the machine so that it BSODs randomly due to gradual memory failure. This wouldn’t cause a BSOD at the moment of the short occurring followed by consistent failure state until the device is removed, however.

          In other words, the OS has to be involved — probably with some kind of inability to account for unexpected driver behavior effectively.

        • #2581585

          I hate to tell you this but

          by jackie40d1 ·

          In reply to Shorts shouldn’t cause a BSOD.

          I have had cords which were pulled on 1 to many times and were shorted and it gave Windows a BSOD . . What should and should not occur are two different things . .

        • #2582242

          That’s my point . . .

          by apotheon ·

          In reply to I hate to tell you this but

          MS Windows is so poorly designed in this instance that something that should not might have happened. Stop trying to blame the hardware for the software’s inability to deal with things that it should be able to deal with.

          A minor power fluctuation might have caused an insufficiently well designed OS to fail in the manner of a BSOD. An actual system failure that is entirely the fault of the hardware, however — such as a short that interrupts the operation of software by definition of the type of hardware failure — would not lead to a BSOD because the entire OS would crash, causing the OS to simply disappear or making the system reboot.

        • #2582717

          Did somebody say something?

          by absolutely ·

          In reply to I concurr !

          Try pushing the same button, once more! Maybe it will work [u]this time[/u] …

          IT’S NOT WORKING!

          :^0

    • #2582700

      More of interest

      by ghostbrowser ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      Is why this happened if it is true?

      I have never had this problem or heard of it happening before
      It could be simply a hardware problem

      Could happen because the microphone socket has ground and power
      This could show a power problem on the sound device or main board or power supply units
      Which would be no fault of vista

      But it may show that vista has a problem if a device fails partly or completely

      Could be interesting to she if it happened with Windows XP or a Linux distro

    • #2594176

      one thing i haven’t seen yet…

      by inertman9 ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      in reading most of these posts (though not all), is the fact thatthe system this supposedly happened on isn’t made clear northeactual error message on the blue screen, nor the timing (insert mic, either hardwaresensing or software begins to set-up chat etc, then bsod for ex.) and ifresearch was done on theerror code, etc. for all anyone knowsby reading this thread, itcould be a 966mz compaq w/ 512 ram and a 512 jumper using ready boost, and a minimum drive w/ minimum space. since nothing is really clear here, why would anyone take this seriously, and even if it was both clear and true, does anyone really believe it is actually the fault of the os instead of the driver or any other possibility? i have even tried pulling out a card when the system is running, sometimes get a blue screen, sometimes get a restart, sometimes a lock-up. putting it back never works while it is on. this is one reason a short is a possibility, though slim, or even that the sound card isn’t secured properly. the opposite of plug and play, right??! but since the system won’t ‘load’ (read restart here i guess), that is probably not true. i am sticking w/ either the driveris the issue or even the possibility that teamspeak is trying to complete the mic set-up after the crash is why it won’t restart. i have spent some time w/ manufacturers support over their vista drivers, and had varying results from “the chipset man. needs to provide that” to ‘we know it works so it’s your problem’ (which obviously may be true), to ‘we’re not supporting that device in vista’ ie my hp scanner which works fine in everything but linux. is any of that the fault of vista?

    • #2946221

      you are dead right

      by gsaravin9 ·

      In reply to Vista Smacked down by headset

      well i’ve had all sort of hiccups & blue screen of death etc.I have gone back to windows xp & i don’t know the new windows has compatibility problems.Vista reminds me of milenium windows.
      ta mick

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