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What is the best way to find an IT Job?

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With so many choices of job search engines and community sites such as Craig’s List, I am curious as to the best way to actually find a job. Has anyone found a really good site or other type of media to search for jobs? Any kind of suggestion or comment is welcomed.

Topic

I think

In reply to What is the best way to find an IT Job?

I think you may have answered your own question in part.. “with so many choices of job search engines and community sites..” The more places you can search, and present yourself, the broader the chance you’ll see/be seen for something just right for you.

I used JobDango and set up notifications for any new postings for IT positions. It was a broad enough range that I saw everything coming and going on the site. Some days I’d send out a half-dozen to dozen resumes, some days there’d be nothing for me to pursue.
I also used Craigslist, as well as going directly to area employers’ websites, checking out their employment links.
And then, there’s networking – my partner put the word out that I was an available geek, and did anyone know of any open IT positions.

In all, I got hits.. nibbles?? from each of the above methods. The one that stuck in the end was via Craigslist.

“Craigslist? That’s just stuff for sale and tawdry hook-ups! I’ll never find a job there!”
Who knew? 🙂

You may not like my answer, but. . . . .

In reply to What is the best way to find an IT Job?

…..the best place to fnd a job is where one is not being offered. If you’d like me to elaborate, let me know.

Damn

In reply to You may not like my answer, but. . . . .

That is quite possibly the single best thing you have ever posted Max.

{And that makes 2 in one day. Goddammit. Up really is down.}

[b]lgreene[/b] – ask for clarification to get more on this point.

Please Elaborate

In reply to You may not like my answer, but. . . . .

Maxwell,

I’m interested in what you mean by “where one is not being offered”.

Thanks,

lgreene

Pick an industry, any industry. . . . .

In reply to Please Elaborate

….. and I don’t necessarily mean “the IT industry”, per se, even though the same principles would apply.

They ALL use Information Technology to create and/or deliver their end product. All of them. Automobile dealerships, Insurance companies, lawyers, architects, engineers, real estate companies, private schools (public schools are a different animal, but are certainly a possibility), grocery store chains, breweries, larger restaurants, auto parts stores, department stores, car rental companies, and on and on the list goes. The list is as long as the Yellow Pages! It helps if you have a knowledge and interest in the industry, of course, but most people can intelligently discuss myriad things without being an expert in manufacturing widgets, so to speak. And like I said, the “IT industry” is no different.

Then pick a particular company within that industry, and research it until you can discuss with anybody what they do, the product they offer, who their customers are, the number of employees they might have, and so on. You don’t have to get real particular about the details, but just get to a point so that you can intelligently tell them what they do instead of asking them what they do; just understand who it is you’re talking to. (I’m amazed at the people who’ve called me asking for a job, and then proceed to ask what we do!) You’ll also find the name of the president of the company, by the way, and that’s your contact.

You’re gonna’ call that person — by name — and offer your services in a way that will clearly show that you can apply your skills with information technology issues that will help the company improve its product, its process, or its profit. You’ll know what kind of computer network would accommodate their needs — for example, whether or not they might use remote access for a sales staff and such, whether or not they have satellite offices, the kinds of end users they might have, the kinds of software they might use, and you’ll know their Web site inside and out. You’ll know what kinds of computing and IT challenges that industry might be having. And you will not “ask for a job”, but rather “offer your services”. There IS a HUGE difference.

But they don’t have a job posting, you might say? Great! All the better! You have absolutely NO COMPETITION! Companies never really want to talk to someone who calls “asking for a job” anyway; but they ALWAYS want to talk to someone who they believe can make their company better, more productive, and more profitable. And if they don’t have a “job opening”, but here they have, sitting right in front of them, a person that they want on their team, they’ll either find a job opening or make one. Not only will you be selling your knowledge and skills, but you’ll also be selling yourself in a way that gives them a loud-and-clear message that you’re a real “go-getter” — AND you understand their needs. All good companies understand the win-win philosophy, and that will be your approach and mind-set.

It won’t work, you say? Yes, it will work. It’s worked for me — many times. Since I’ve been in my current industry, (one that uses information technology, but is not a stereo-typical “information technology” industry), which is about twenty five years, I’ve had jobs with five different companies — the current one for over fifteen. I’ve never answered a want-ad or job posting — not even once — and none of the companies were actively looking for someone to fill the position they eventually hired me to fill. In my current case, they literally created the position just for me.

I will admit, this approach isn’t for everybody. Some people actually believe they can’t sell themselves. But they’d see it if they’d only believe it. And while this approach is extremely successful when one focuses on smaller companies, it may not be as effective with an industry giant. But even with an industry giant who ALWAYS has “job openings” along with a huge HR department to filter candidates, if you’re introduced to the middle-managers or HR folks by the corporate officer that you called instead of walking in the door along with everybody else, you’ve increased your chances exponentially.

The bottom line is this. Don’t wait around and settle for some bone ….. I mean some job that somebody might throw your way. Instead, define the job that you want, locate where that might be, and pursue it with confidence and passion. Oh, and by the way. Once you get your position, you’ll have to deliver what you promise. But that’s never a problem for someone who has such an extreme interest in what they’re doing. In fact, you’re gonna’ deliver MORE than you promise — and then you’ll be well on your way to a very long and satisfying career.

That is exactly how I got my last three jobs

In reply to Pick an industry, any industry. . . . .

Don’t mean to make this a love-fest Max.

It’s may SEEM scary to do but you “lgreene” will be surprised that the first call is the hardest and you’ll actually find that people WANT to hear from you and listen to you.

If you can overcome the initial fear you will find it is so much more rewarding than the lottery of the resume and job ads.

Max’s critical point – you have NO competition. If the company genuinely can’t fit you in then you’ve lost nothing anyway (and invariably you’ve made good future contacts that WILL ALWAYS remember your name, even in 10 years time). But if they are impressed with your go-getting attitude, and your skills work with them, more often than not they will make a position for you. Entrepreneurs are impressed by ‘junior entrepreneurs’.

Here is a couple of practical to-dos that follow up Max’s points:

–> How do you find the name of the specific individual? * ask a friend (or friend-of-friend) who works in, or does business with, said company. A firm referral is worth a hundred cold calls. * get on the web site – they often have key individuals listed there. * On Monday, call the company and ask who is the CEO, or at least the director (or in USA, the VP) of the division that you wish to work for. Never go for anything less than that level. But DO NOT ask to be put through to that person on the first call. Get back on the web and research them. Then make another phone call when you are prepared for that individual. I usually do it the next day as you have less chance of the receptionist remembering your voice.

{Even if the CEO / VP are not the people who would decide on a job at ‘your level’, by calling them first you instantly get an internal referal. When you find out who the proper person is, you call them and tell them that “the CEO (insert name) said it is critical that we speak about an opportunity for (insert company name)”. You just effectively guaranteed your first interview.

{That’s a repeat of what Max said – I just re-read his note, but it is worthwhile repeating (ha hah hah).}

–> PRACTISE your initial call. With your mother. Your cat. The mirror. Make sure that you are prepared TO SPEAK PROPERLY.
Think about this – actors are amongst the best speakers in the world. If they practise and practise and practise before an important scene, isn’t it an example of the right thing to do? I practise to myself. I laugh at myself. When I can do it without giggling I know I’ve got it down.

–> Really (no, really [i]really[/i]) do your homework on the company. Find out what you can about the people, their current affairs, industry-specific issues happening at the time, recent large sales, recent acquisitions. google-search it. Yahoo it. Look on wall street sites for information about them or parent companies. Who are their competition? read the annula reports – not for the dollars and cents, but to get the company vision and objectives for the future. What is the CEO’s vision and how can you use the exact terminology in your resume and introduction? Whatever. Go in prepared. then use that information judiciously.

{I have had a person walk in and their first sentence was “well you guys truly f-cked up that sale to XYZ”. Since it was actually me who had indeed f-cked up the sale it didn’t hit my nice spot immediately. If you want to show your knowledge, err on the side of positive things. It probably has less risk!!}.

Remember, a web-based recruiting agent does not give a $hit about you or if you are the ‘best’ person for a particular role. Like real estate agents they are after a ‘quick’ response. So they search the resumes for ‘quick’ fixes and matches to a criteria list. Quick responses are quick dollars. Detailed examination is just too much work for most of them.

A good recruiter who actually calls you before the ad is placed, well that is a different matter. Sometimes. Maybe. Handle with care. Bloody sales people.

Knowing the other company

In reply to That is exactly how I got my last three jobs

I never asert I know everything in an interview. But what I will do is ask a question that will give me an opening to show them the research I’ve done and more importantly how my ability to interpret it can help them.

I will give you an example. For my last interview, I googled alot and found a sales presentation on the companies products and background. I then googled for more general information about the industry to see what the challenges are in the industry itself.

So when I was in the interview I asked, “whats your company’s biggest challenge” Of course I had thought about a few of them and had considered the options they face. So when then answered : Challenge A, I could talk about possible approaches, asking them what they had tried how it had worked out. It sounded to the person that was interviewing me that I really wanted the job because I had both done some research and put some thought into it.

I think a good searcher should devote some time to a number of approaches. Some headhunters are boutique types – they act as part of the HR department of a few firms and are on retainer versus fee for each placement. Find them and court them. I’ve had less of a good experience with larger placement firms that tend to be machines.

Personal networking works for some, targeted marketing letters for others, shotgun applications for others. The task of looking for a job is a job, and a difficult one at times. You really ahve to set clear goals and make plans on how to meet them. The big thing I learned is; if what you are doing is not getting results, change your approach. Your resume not hitting the spot? Change it. Not having luck with one industry – consider another.

James

Therein lies the rub

In reply to Pick an industry, any industry. . . . .

“…offer your services in a way that will clearly show that you can apply your skills with information technology issues that will help the company improve its product, its process, or its profit”

This is not all that easy to do. Especially if you are an honest individual, and are unwilling to stretch the truth. I have tried this and they ended up taking my advice, but not my services.

An addition to my message

In reply to Please Elaborate

Good companies are ALWAYS on the lookout for good people. And regardless of the doom-and-gloom reports you read in the newspapers or hear on the news, the USA is almost at FULL employment right now. (Full employment, according to labor experts, is measured somewhere in the range of 3-4 percent unemployment — which equals 96-97 percent employment. Right now the unemployment rate’s at around 5 percent.) What that means is, people are not beating a path to the doors of these companies looking for a job (or in your case, offering your services).

One of the things I hate the most is “advertising” for a position, and that’s probably a typical sentiment. Getting bombarded with resumes and phone calls, and spending hours upon hours interviewing people is a real drag. The point here is to illustrate that good companies don’t want to wait until they have to advertise for a position, thus my comment they’re ALWAYS on the lookout for good people. It’s always better to fill a position, so to speak, before the need to do so becomes critical. So when a good prospect DOES show up at their doorstep, it’s not only a better environment to talk, but you have a better opportunity to “stand alone” in the crowd. After you leave the interview, the PTB are not asking themselves, “Who should we hire” from this pool of a gazillion applicants, but rather “This person seems pretty bright, and perhaps we should find a spot for him/her.” (Or look at it this way. If it’s you versus two hundred applicants, you might see your odds as 1 in 200. But if it’s you versus you, there’s a 50-50 chance for success.)

Disclaimer: Do ALL companies fit the picture that I’m painting? No, of course not. But in this environment, you don’t want to work for those companies anyway. And as such, it’s YOU who’s in a position of looking for that good fit, not them. I might even say this. The companies that continually advertise for people are, by definition, not as good as companies that seldom do. Therefore, if you want to find the “good companies”, look at the ones who don’t continually advertise for people.)

Another message addition: How to start?

In reply to Please Elaborate

After you’ve done the research we’ve suggested, you’re going to send your one-page resume (Did I say one-page resume?) and a cover letter directly to the person (President, CEO, CIO, etc.) you’ve determined is your best contact at the company. You WILL NOT start your cover letter with “To whom it may concern”, or “Dear Sir or Madam”, or any other generic nonsense. You’ll address that person by name: [i]”Dear Mr. Smith”[/i]. You’ll also mention the name of the company in the cover letter: [i]”….The skills that I can offer ACME Widget company….”[/i]. You’ll use the best stationary money can buy, and the form of your letter and accompanying resume will be perfect. (Did I say that the form of your letter and resume will be perfect?)

Wait about two or three days after you’ve mailed the inquiry, and then follow up with a phone call — asking for that person by name. The stage for the phone call will have been set. [i]”Hello, Mr. Smith. I’m calling to discuss the resume I sent you a few days ago, and how I believe my skills and experience can help ACME Widget Company. Do you have some time this week to meet with me, or would another time be better?”[/i]

And to get yourself into the correct mind-set and in a real groove, contact several companies at the same time. Don’t start with only one, but rather select several from the same industry — even competitors. This will serve several purposes. First of all, that “mind-set” thing is huge; answers will become automatic, and your confidence will soar. Second of all, you’ll be giving yourself more opportunities instead of just one. Third of all, the inevitable question, “Are you talking to anyone else” can then be answered honestly. “Well yes I am. I have an appointment with ACE Widget Company tomorrow morning.” Fourth of all, after some time goes by and you’ve “offered your services” to several companies, it will be you who can then determine which company would be the best fit for you (Because you will, after all, get more than one offer!), and your starting salary can be negotiated more in your favor.

Would not work in the UK

In reply to Another message addition: How to start?

They don’t go for all that bull over here.

Harsh

In reply to Would not work in the UK

but correct in most cases.

Hard enough to sell yourself to someone who wants something in the UK. Not to mention MD’s PA is an absolute dragon in most cases. 😀

Whether you believe it works or not. . . . . .

In reply to Harsh

….you’re right.

Well as a method of getting a job

In reply to Whether you believe it works or not. . . . . .

I’m not sure I could do it. Selling myself is something I picked up while contracting or at interviews, it’s not really where my talents lie though.

That lack of confidence would kill me stone dead wouldn’t it.

I’ve never seen anyone get a job with this method anywhere I’ve worked. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. But in my experience with UK companies, you’d have to convince them that it was worth the time to let you have some time to convince them.

It should work, but I’m not sure they would let you try in the UK.

Tony – I’ve never found a job. . . . .

In reply to Whether you believe it works or not. . . . . .

…..OTHER than using the method I described. Looking at EVERY job I’ve ever had in my entire life, they were ALL found by methods other than want-ads or job listings. I’ve NEVER found a job the “normal way” — absolutely never.

And here’s an interesting side-note about the ONLY time I even considered using the want-ads to find a job. I had been out of the service for only a short time, and I was in a bar and grille having lunch and a beer, looking through the want-ads, trying to figure out what kind of job I wanted to look for. I was diligently reading the ads, circling the ones that sounded appealing, making notes, and all that stuff. It was in the middle of the afternoon, and my waiter, the restaurant manager, and I were about the only ones in the place (and the cooks, of course). I ended up in a conversation with the manager, and to make a long story short, I left that day with her buying my lunch and beer, AND offering me a job as a bartender. I had never been a bartender in my entire life, I didn’t know a martini from a manhattan or a scotch from a bourbon — nor was I even considering becoming a bartender.

She hired me because she loved my attitude. And when I quit the job 18 months later, I was told by her and several of the assistant managers that I was the best bartender they’ve ever had. (An absolutely true story.)

That story also relates to my own current “rule” about hiring people. I hire for attitude, and I train for skills. I never hire for skills if the person has a bad attitude. (In the case of finding someone with BOTH attitude AND skills, I pay more than my competition!) Most people with such “bad attitudes” simply cannot be “trained” to think otherwise; but people with great attitudes can be “trained” to do ANYTHING. There are SO many people out there inflicted with the dreaded stinkin’-thinkin’ disease, it’s no wonder a great attitude stands alone in the crowd.

Attitude is something I look for as well

In reply to Whether you believe it works or not. . . . . .

I want to work with people who are interested in what they do and enjoy it.

You don’t have to salute the logo or suck up, just show that what you do matters enough to put some effort in to doing it better.

I love people like you

In reply to Would not work in the UK

You make it SO EASY for people like me.

Ditto.

In reply to I love people like you

I see your type strolling out the door on a regular basis, head down with an application form in hand…

I guess that’s why. . . . .

In reply to Ditto.

TheTechMail, you so snidely said, [i]”I see your type strolling out the door on a regular basis, head down with an application form in hand…”[/i]

I guess that’s why I’ve had my current job for fifteen years, and I probably make three times what you do.

Many Congratulations!!!!!!!

In reply to I love people like you

and I really mean it!!!!!!!!!!

You just reassured me of you arrogance and general lack of respect for other IT persons:

http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=205706&messageID=2140531

General comments like this are playground tactics – much like you much touted job hunting methods. If anybody is reading – this is the type of character you get if you allow their methods to influence you. Nothing but a self serving egotistical moron (and who wants that?)

Is this so called lack of earning?
(although I have no idea how you could know anything about my earnings – I’ve been promoted three times in 5 years)
?comment a desperate attempt at trying to look the big man?

Well Done!

You failed.

More info @
http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=206590&messageID=2140647

I cannot comprehend what type of IT job one could get hire by doing that.

In reply to You may not like my answer, but. . . . .

No offense, but once you get past all of the feel good, empowerment seminar rhetoric, are you seriously proposing that folks pursue a employment/career strategy that comprises of being hired on the whim of an executive and then being placed into either a made up position or forced into a department as a “pet” of said executive?

Sales and marketing…sure, management…maybe. But IT???? I guess if its a small enough company…

You have TWO people in this discussion. . . .

In reply to I cannot comprehend what type of IT job one could get hire by doing that.

…to provide living proof.

But if you don’t think YOU can do it, you’re right.

Besides, you have a very skewed view. . . .

In reply to I cannot comprehend what type of IT job one could get hire by doing that.

….of many things.

http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=205581&messageID=2134766

I have to wonder, how exactly do you define Information Technology? And do you really believe “I.T.” is a field in and of itself? Is it “the end”, or is it the means to an end?

my 2 cents

In reply to Besides, you have a very skewed view. . . .

ARE as follows, –max you make a great point about getting info about any industry and focusing on how to make the company more profitable and successful, however, the one thing noone has mentioned is race. This plays a huge factor on every hr hiring postion (period)
–in an ideal world what you say make sense and the job i have now reflects on some of the same guidelines you have discussed, but a few of my “dream” jobs have been dismissed because of race. i’m currently putting together the ‘blueprint’ in starting my own business, so the above can be disregarded towards me.
happy holidays to all

Being unfortunately

In reply to my 2 cents

white, I can only make one comment. It wouldn’t be a factor with me.

I’d also say working with a bunch of racists would be f’ing nightmare.

I would argue with that point

In reply to my 2 cents

Obviously I don’t have the same experience with the NY market. My company is all over the world, and we don’t seem to have that issue.

In my company our HR people are all female, and we have several races respresented. And in recent our positions hired, including some of my own hires, we have a diverse mix of backgrounds. Our CIO is of a South Asian background.

I will say that there is one time when I eliminated someone based on something cultural. I interviewed a young man who grew up in the Middle east and Africa, as well as Europe. Most of his work experience was international. I didn’t hold that against him at all. I value diversity. But he asked me in the interview about my religion and the origins of my ancestry. It wasn’t that talking about these things make me uncomfortable, it is that if you are applying for a job in North America, you should know that these are totally inappropriate questions. I judged that he wouldn’t fit in with the team.

James

IT example in an IT company

In reply to I cannot comprehend what type of IT job one could get hire by doing that.

Young guy of Chinese origin, finished his Microsoft letters and things. Approached us to get into our company – a successful US-based ERP vendor.

At first we said no. At second we said no. When he came back the third time we made a role for him as ‘support to the help-desk’. Which meant he did the real $hit work while he also was in a position to learn what the help-desk did.

He then grew into ‘technical help-desk support’ – he couldn’t help on the applications (yet) but could help when it came to the techo side of things. His accent could prove painful at times but his dedication, detail and follow-up were always there, and at the end of the day that was what the customer was generally after.

He has remained with that company now for 8 years even through their acquisition by Microsoft.

I wish the anonymity of the web didn’t stop me from passing on his details. But there is an example, if nothing else.

And I know heaps of developers, analysts through to whatever hi-fallutin’ title is used nowadays (I love “Systems Architect”) who have done and continue to progress their career in this manner.

I’m absolutely sure you do to. I’d guarantee it. Perhaps it is a semantic thing about the words we’ve used. 🙂

Thanks for the example

In reply to IT example in an IT company

It sounds like he got his foot into the door by using perseverence and determination, not salesmenship. And since you used the term “we”, is it safe to presume that he wasn’t trying to do an end run by everyone involved and selling himself only to the top dog at the company?

More than anything

In reply to IT example in an IT company

[i]his dedication, detail and follow-up were always there, and at the end of the day that was what the customer was generally after.[/i]

I think it shows that [b]work ethic[/b] is the most important trait to possess. It will lead to everything else.

Best way to find an IT job

In reply to What is the best way to find an IT Job?

Search engines are great, but the best way to find an IT job is networking. Do you have former co-workers, friends or family working in the field? You want someone who can speak to your skills, ambition and work ethic who is an insider. Of course, if you don’t have those kinds of contacts, your resume will have to do the talking for you. These days openings get so many resumes that yours would have to be something really spectacular to get attention.

Suppose you’re new to the field and don’t know anyone to talk to. You can make contacts through local user groups or even by donating your expertise to a non-profit organization. The more people you meet, the better the chance that one of them knows the right spot for you.

From zero to hero

In reply to What is the best way to find an IT Job?

I found http://www.dice.com and http://www.careerbuilder.com to be good sources to find IT jobs.

I’d browse through those job postings and figure out what skills sets the employers are looking for. Then, try to acquire those skills sets by getting the proper certifications, attending boot camps, studying on your own.

What I’ve seen lately from newly hiring companies is that many employers are looking for a sharp, tech savvy individuals who are moldable. So, even if you don’t meet all their “wishlist” if they feel that you will fit into their environment, they’ll work with you. More and more I realize that companies are looking for cultures and personalities. They don’t want to hire an experienced CCIE toughneck whom they have to pay 6 figures, but they’d rather hire a less experienced but eager individual who are willing to work long hours and learn new technology. Wouldn’t you if you were to hire someone?? So, you have to really scope and figure out what they are looking for from the job posting; then, be that person during the interview. But, don’t try to be someone that you are not.

Bottom line is that if you are a lazy person who like to work in an IT field because it is a “trendy” thing to do nowadays, then wake up and smell the roses. You really have to figure out what you are really passionate about. What triggered your interest most during your school?

Tech jobs

In reply to From zero to hero

While I was working full time in a factory, and going to school, I just went to dice looking for project type work.

A recruiter called and gave me a 1 day deployment job. After that I asked for more, and then it became more frequent.

I did this in order to gain experience and to have something for a resume other than…well, working in a factory.

He even had me come in to tweak my resume into a Technical resume.

Now I am turning down jobs.

Don’t know about best

In reply to What is the best way to find an IT Job?

depends on what you are after and how much you can offer now.

Max & Oz’s sell yourself approach works by default. You can either do that or you can’t 😀

I’ve got most of my jobs through recruitment agencies, but this is not just scattering your cv about and sitting back waiting for the phone to ring.
You still have to target. If you see a job posted that appeals, or you get a you have been word searched email.

Look up what you can, look at your cv see if you can target it, at what you know about the opportunity.
Do that before you call.

Most firms don’t have exclusive deals in the UK. I’ve often found out more about a job by looking at other agency ads for what is fairly obviously the same opportunity.

Never rely on them ringing you up, ring them find out more, then send your cv (after a rewording maybe) unless they’ve put you off.

As for getting hit by them.
Two tips, buzzwords, don’t add them if you don’t know them, but if there’s an applicable one get it in there.
Often when you register with an agency they’ll ask some profile questions, don’t put restrictions in there.

You put must be in my state in there, the only hits you’ll get are those where you must live in the same state as the opportunity.

Just to illustrate, I put region prepared to work ‘europe’ in one profile. They must have been run by some nationalists who didn’t consider the UK in europe, because I got no hits for jobs in england.

If you get no hits, rework your cv, if hits tail off, rework your cv. (New cv equals new candidate)
If you get loads, remember not to patiently explain that there is only one space between oracle and dba and that java and javascript are not the same thing.

From my experience…

In reply to What is the best way to find an IT Job?

…I’ve gotten jobs from Careerbuilder, from company websites and even the local paper. I don’t know what other folks experiences have been, but even though the head hunters always seem be looking for candidates, my experience with them has been very lacking to say the least.

But finding jobs is the easy part…getting them is another matter.

My suggestions for the process –

Getting the interview:
Build short and sweet resumes tailored specifically for the job you’re applying for. Don’t add anything more than what they’re looking for and for crying out loud, don’t write an encyclopedia by listing every single piece of equipment, software or protocol you’ve ever seen or touched. HR types and managers are going through a pile of resumes and they are not going to waste time digging through useless information to see if you might fit. Plus you might give them information they’ll use to reject you instead! Don’t list any extra certs that you have that they’re not looking for.
But on the other hand, what you do list, be prepared to back it up during the pop-quiz portion of your interview.

Speaking of which….

The interview:
Call ahead and find out the style of dress that is expected.
Know the technologies they listed in the job posting well enough to answer basic questions without hesitation. During the interview, how you answer a question is just as if not more important than what you actually say. Be interested in the place you’re looking to be employed at and the people who are talking to you.

Many professional job seeker websites and some of the folks here who have replied to your question think that you should ask in-depth questions about the organization and their plans, etc. I’ve tried that avenue many times and all I can say is that I’ve had very little positive reaction to this. Mostly indifference and even annoyance. If you bring something up about the interviewer’s company that the interviewer didn’t know and they have to stumble and look bad before their peers well, that’s not a positive thing to happen. :-0

Final step…
All of the jobs that I interviewed for and then was offered employment, in each one of those instances, I had written a follow-up letter after my interview.

My two and a half cents.

Late into this discussion but Max is right!!

In reply to What is the best way to find an IT Job?

I haven’t checked in at TR in some time but saw this thread and thought it was interesting.

First, shameless plug from the downloades here at TR…

Chapter 11 of my book – The IT Career Builder’s Toolkit is available here:
http://downloads.techrepublic.com.com/download.aspx?&kw=career&c=1&docid=173215

If you wait for a job posting, you are now meeting employers at their least favorite moment to find talent. They’ve obviously gone through internal channels, referrals, and other known commodities. In complete and utter desperation, they enter the open market – advertising their opportunity to everyone – including deadbeats and the dregs of the professional world.

Because of this, you are now viewed as nothing more than a number to churn through – and they are far less likely to offer premium salary in that situation. You have become a high-risk proposition.

Make yourself a known commodity. Find opportunities where and for whom you wish to work – then approach them – start a dialog, keep it going, foster it, impress them with your persistence and your growing understanding of their organization.

And emphasize your value, not your technical talent. The technical talent is expected – of course you can prove your talent – but can your convince them of your effectiveness?

Being effective is more important than being “good.” Of course, in my book, good is equated with effective but I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

Matthew Moran
Blog: Notes From The Toolshed
http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career/

Be careful

In reply to Late into this discussion but Max is right!!

I’m the target of much scorn around here, you know. We wouldn’t want the fallout to drift your way!

The problem with scorn…

In reply to Be careful

Well, first of all Max – you probably deserve that scorn – just for different reasons – because we all do. Look hard enough in the old closets and the skeletons are pretty apparent. I have a whole chorus line of skeletons – and try to add a dancer every week – so we can start a revue…

Another thing. I look at the general scorn against you – well, I gave a cursory glance over some of the post where scorn was heaped – and..well… people rarely address issues so it is easier to make rhetoric heavy personal attacks.

Don’t agree with someone’s immigration position – they’re a bigot! Never mind that their married to an immigrant.

Don’t agree with someone’s view on the war – they’re a war monger or they’re a wuss!

It plays both ways. I find that you, at least, state a position (a what and a why). People should disagree with a what and why too. Otherwise, the response is simply a…

Na ah! neenure neenure neenure

Which does have its place….in preschool!

You answered the question with a reasoned plan of attack. I tell people to grab a 1 page resume and generic cover letter, go the geographic locale you would like to work – and visit some of the more interesting looking businesses in the area.

Talk to some people, get some names, see if the person you speak to in the lobby is friendly, happy… See how others who come in and out are similarly friendly and happy. Friendly and happy is a good indication that maybe the culture for that company is friendly and happy. Friendly and happy – across a broad group of people is not accidental.

Then, follow up with those names, do research, continue to approach that company with your value message. You will be the only person who has done that with that company in the past year, 2 years, 5 years, probably 10 years. They will notice you.

And then, if you are also friendly and happy – they will hire you and you can be part of the friendly and happy club. Without the ridiculous commute of most passive job seekers – who drive 60 minutes one way, passing others who do the same type of work as they do – driving 60 minutes the opposite way.

It’s crazy I tell ya.

Matt Moran

Full agreement, Matt

In reply to The problem with scorn…

I both enjoy and value your insight. But dang, I should have looked you up the last time I was in your neck of the woods. I was there last April, but I forgot all about it. Well, maybe next time…

By the way

In reply to Late into this discussion but Max is right!!

Outstanding message!

Apology?

In reply to By the way

So am I getting one then?

Or are you the kind who throws an insults out yet pulls up others for exactly the same thing?

http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=205706&messageID=2140531

So this was a compliment?

In reply to Apology?

“I see your type strolling out the door on a regular basis, head down with an application form in hand…”

If you don’t want to be insulted, stop insulting. Though I said in another thread you started that I don’t really see it as a hard insult. I think you are choosing to take it that way.

James

lgreene – if you’re interested, some more comments

In reply to What is the best way to find an IT Job?

Whether one realizes it or not, attitude is probably the most important aspect of a person’s life. It can take you to heights never imagined — literally make your dreams become reality — or it can drag you down into the pits of misery. It can make your life happy or miserable, whichever you choose. The proof is pretty obvious, if you just think about it. How many “successful” people (and you can define “success” however you’d like) were successful because they thought they would fail? The answer is none of them. Nobody’s successful by accident. Now this isn’t to say that everyone who strives for that “success” will always achieve it, but they’ve increased their chances exponentially if they really believe it; but it’s also to say that those who believe they will fail will probably find failure. Which do you want?

Companies and corporations are in business for one thing: to make money by providing goods and services to others. If you can help them do that, you’ll succeed. Contrast that with all the people who literally demonize “big business”. How can those people help their companies if they consider them evil? This isn’t to say that all companies are great and hunky-dory, but most of them really are. If not, they would fail. It’s one’s perception that creates one’s own reality — but it’s only their reality, not everyone else’s. Don’t get sucked into such negative mind-sets that seem to be everywhere.

Negative people are a poison. They’re a poison to themselves; and they’re a poison to others. Avoid them like the plague because they will try to poison you as well, and negativity is the killer of success. Misery does indeed love company; and you’re known by the company you keep. You can really CHOOSE what to think. The choice is yours, and yours alone. You can choose to “believe” the naysayers and the failures, if you want, or you could choose to “believe” those who suggest otherwise:

[i]Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other one thing.[/i]
— Abraham Lincoln

[i]When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.[/i]
— Helen Keller

[i]A verse from the Veda says, ‘What you see, you become.’ In other words, just the experience of perceiving the world makes you what you are. This is a quite literal statement.[/i]
— Deepak Chopra

[i]Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference.[/i]
— Winston Churchill

[i]To put the world right in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must first put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must first cultivate our personal life; we must first set our hearts right.[/i]
— Confucius

[i]Everything can be taken from a man but one thing; the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.[/i]
— Victor Frankl (An absolutely amazing man with an amazing story. You should read his book, [i]Man’s Search for Meaning[/i])

[i]A stumbling block to the pessimist is a stepping-stone to the optimist.[/i]
— Eleanor Roosevelt

I could go on and on quoting famous people about success and attitude. And if anyone doubts the accuracy of their words, answer this one question: How can all those successful people be wrong, and all the failures be right?

One last quote:

[i]You become what you think about.[/i]
— Earl Nightingale

Keep the good thoughts, lgreene — even share them with others — and good things will come your way.

[Author]

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