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  • #2178069

    What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

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    by debuggist ·

    I know CS seems like the obvious choice, although I’m sure others have chosen other majors and done well in IT.

    Do others major in Mathematics or both CS and Math (that’s what I did)?

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    • #3095246

      I think the answer boils down to this: “It depends.”

      by jmgarvin ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

      While CS is the typical choice, we are seeing more schools offering degrees in IT, IS, and various other IT related fields. While I don’t know if this is the perfect choice, I do think that CS does NOT prepare you for IT. CS makes you a scientist and a thinker, but you haven’t a clue how to setup a router or develop a good security policy.

      I’ve also seen CS degrees with a focus in IT or some such.

      Me? I’m a CS guy that learned IT as I chugged along. While I wish I could have had a class that focused more on the practical aspects of something like networking, I’m glad I have a very good understanding of the theory and protocols. Hell, I’m glad I wrote a protocol wrapper, just to see if I understood what was going on. However, I didn’t know how to setup a router until one was thrown in my lap.

      Looking at jobs on monster I’ve also noticed that certification requirements aren’t listed very often. It seems a degree is worth FAR more than certs now and that a BS in CS, IT, IS, or “technology” is typically required for most of the job postings I saw.

      • #3095046

        IT & IS degrees

        by debuggist ·

        In reply to I think the answer boils down to this: “It depends.”

        I’m not familiar with these kinds of degrees. It used to be CS covered a wide gamut of IT careers. Now universities are providing more specialized degree programs.

        I was just curious, since I’ve been out of the academic arena for more than a decade.

        • #3080508

          Compare courses to job reqts

          by dr dij ·

          In reply to IT & IS degrees

          I read a book on offshoring that was explaining that US colleges don’t prepare kids for what companies looking for. Colleges teach ‘knowledge’ and ‘how to think’, companies want ‘know-how’ or how to do something specific instantly, even if they could hire someone smart and train them.

          They want a degree just to show you plugged away for 4 years at something vaguely related, but then have humongous list of specific reqts whipped up by HR people who don’t know much about IT.

          One real-life example: An engineer I knew visited a hiring fair in Long Beach. He went to one company’s booth where the person was asking for 5 years experience with 68000 chip assembly. He got up to the person, and they asked him this. Engineer told them loudly that the chip had only been out 3 years (at that time), and left!

        • #3078213

          Similar experience

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Compare courses to job reqts

          I applied for a job that (total) required 97 years of experience in various areas. Apparently HR couldn’t add very well…

        • #3078380

          Re : Compare courses to job reqts

          by raja b ·

          In reply to Compare courses to job reqts

          During the recession time you would see many such requirements. The companies had to come to the hiring fairs but they were instructed not to hire. They would make outrageous requirements.

          I went to this job fair in 2002 ( Dallas TX) where they were looking for 10 yrs+ in Java. I am not sure if the inventors of Java would qualify 🙂

      • #3078067

        It’s a combination of 3 things

        by dave.schutz ·

        In reply to I think the answer boils down to this: “It depends.”

        I’ve been working in IT for 7 years and technology for almost 30 years. I’m a MSCE, MOS and currently working on my BS in IT. Most employers I’ve listened look at 3 things: degree, certifications, and experience. A degree just means you can pass some college classes. Certifications mean you can pass tests. Experience shows what you can do. When you combine these 3 things you are much more valuable.

    • #3095209

      B.S. in IT is just that (BS, that is).

      by godaves ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

      By far, the better software developers I’ve worked with don’t have any IT related degree. In fact, when I look for people to hire it has actually become a strike against them in my book. I look for people who sincerely like their work and are “passionate” about doing the job right (and come recommended by someone else) and the degree is always secondary by a long shot. People with an IT related major seem to have this entitlement mentality coming into interviews and, later, even into projects. This is not a ploy on my part to find an excuse to pay people less either.. I recommend paying people an amount that keeps them satisfied in their work, and not worried about personal finances so much, because they are far more productive that way, and in turn, the software they develop is that much more productive. It’s time for IT organizations to shed this old “Industrial Age” mentatility regarding hiring people based on college degrees and less on ability, at least for software development, which is still, after all, as much an art as a science.

      • #3095135

        agreed

        by lumbergh77 ·

        In reply to B.S. in IT is just that (BS, that is).

        Can’t argue with ya.

      • #3095130

        I’ll tell you what’s BS

        by samson06 ·

        In reply to B.S. in IT is just that (BS, that is).

        An IT degree is a strike against someone? You gotta be kidding.

        There are many computer science/IT grads that were interested in the field, and busted their butts to get themselves through school to reach their goals. They knew exactly what they wanted to do and didn’t study an easy subject like psych or history so they could party hard for 4 years. And you stereotype IT grads as feeling “entitled” to a job? It’s no worse than your attitude, where you seem to think you’re “entitled” to cheap labor.

        In your world, success should be about who you know, not what you’re good at or interested in. It’s managers with that mentality that run companies into the ground.

        • #3095063

          Well while I wouldn’t say

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to I’ll tell you what’s BS

          that a degree is a strike against one, I’m not in the group that says not having one is either. A good job really, because I don’t have one.

          Any one who feels they can employ me because I’m cheaper than a grad is also in for a very rude awakening. LOL
          In fact I now find it’s the other way round I’ve been pipped for many positions by a wet behind the ears grad because they were cheaper, ?ks cheaper in fact. That’s even when they advertised for someone with my level of experience.
          Once I got asked to re-apply for a position six months after the person they chose instead of me failed due to lack of experience, I told them to stuff it.

          However the real point is anyone who picks candidates based simply on a preference for a bit of paper or against it will fail to choose the right one more often than not. Interestingly though if you aren’t judging on someone else’s recomendation you must have some other way of doing it like assessing their skill yourself.

          Lets face it getting a degree, is not about making you better at the job, it’s not about proving enthusiasm or dedication, It’s about giving yourself a chance to get an inteview. Because when they are sorting out candidates, no experience and no qualifications will always get your carefully crafted cv heading straight to the waste bin.

          Lack of respect for a qualification of any sort is not the the person who qualified for it’s fault. It’s for those who set the standard of qualification, if you hand them out like advertising fliers, they are going to have exactly the same value.

          You worked your ass off to get your degree, I worked my ass to cope with the fact that I hadn’t got one. Which one of us showed more dedication, enthuiasm and ability is impossible to quantify.

          You have to admit though there are far more employers out there who would give you the opportunity to be taken on before me. So exactly what criteria are they judging on. Not the ones you are talking about that’s for sure.

        • #3080486

          Who you know …

          by too old for it ·

          In reply to I’ll tell you what’s BS

          “In your world, success should be about who you know, not what you’re good at or interested in. ”

          This is different than the real world how?

      • #3078112

        agree

        by tauruse ·

        In reply to B.S. in IT is just that (BS, that is).

        i agree with you it should be that the degree will be rated as second in hiring an employee but they should be recommended by trusted people too

      • #2570760

        Agreed!

        by kyang12 ·

        In reply to B.S. in IT is just that (BS, that is).

        Will you hired me?

    • #3094951

      Blob

      by joel ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

    • #3096653

      Specialization

      by whistl3r ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

      Most employer’s look for individuals with strong specialization in a field.

      With my personal experience, employer’s are looking for a prospect with a type of liberal arts degree, not to mention a few certifications to back up their new found knowledge.

      • #3096678

        Any IT Degree

        by itengineerguy ·

        In reply to Specialization

        My two cents is to get any IT or IS related degree. Some require CS, but any IT or IS will do usually to get your foot in the door. I am working on a business degree and soon to graduate. Then I will go back and add BSCIT. But I have made it in the industry for the last ten years just on talent and determination. The best jobs I have had are the two last ones. One, I learned from a friend that heard about a job, and the second one (current) was they called me. I got the salary I wanted.

      • #3096657

        Utterly Useless degrees

        by enkin ·

        In reply to Specialization

        I personally have what appears prima facie an utterly useless degree…Philosophy.

        Having said that though, I find that experience is far more a boon. My previous job in Manufacturing recently landed me a nice position. So while certs and degrees are nice, I think most employers want experience.

        However, that doesn’t stop me from pursuing my Masters in CIS…

    • #3096659

      Any IT Related Degree is good

      by rbkinsey ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

      I’ve been in IT since the late 60s and grew into it because I could get money to pay for my family. I didn’t go for a degree until 76, when I got a BS in Bus Mgt, simply because it was the quickest degree to obtain. It seems to only count as a qualifier for some job requirements.
      Doesn’t seem to matter where you went or how well you did, just as long as you did it when it’s a requirement.

      On a contract a couple of years ago, I noticed that the hiring manager thought less of anyone without a Masters, because he had one. I think it was his way of justifying his own self importance.

      I got an MBA in 03 and although it allows me to fit more project requirements, again I don’t think it really matters where you got it or what you study. Perhaps people who have walked the same journey can relate better and the requirement reflects the best fit for the team of people you would be involved with.

      • #3080538

        I have hired both

        by ltheodoru ·

        In reply to Any IT Related Degree is good

        Personally, I have degrees in both math and CS, but most of the techs that I hire do not have a degree. Of course, the pay they receive in a school system could not possibly demand a degree. The difference I have noticed between those who have degrees and those who do not is the ability to correctly analyze and resolve problems. I find that I usually have to double-check when one of them reports a specific problem to me. Case in point, one of my techs reported that a switch had failed. She added a single failed jack and the fact that our internet access was down for a short while just as she was checking the one computer that had been reported and came up with a failed switch even though that was not the case at all. It is not the specific facts that you learn in college, but the thought process and problem-solving approach.

        • #3080362

          problem solving

          by debuggist ·

          In reply to I have hired both

          That’s the value I received from Mathematics. It taught me how to “think”. Of course, if I mention that to anyone without a math major, they look at me like I’m an arrogant snob. What I really mean is “analyze” like you say: break a problem down and methodically analyze it. Math isn’t the only subject that can teach you that; it’s just the one that happened to really work well for me.

    • #3080544

      Don’t settle for just a degree

      by faradhi ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

      While I think that JamesFD’s position of counting a degree as a mark against that person is ridiculous. I would agree that experience is just as important in obtaining a position.

      The problem with IT in the States is that a large number of entry-level positions are being outsourced off shores. That means that experience is getting harder and harder to come by. The benefit to getting a degree is that most, if not all, colleges and universities offer internships or Co-Ops. While getting a degree, whether IT, IS or CS, be sure to seek out internships to gain experience.

      • #3080463

        Too true

        by evmafau ·

        In reply to Don’t settle for just a degree

        I got my BS in MIS last May and kept running into walls trying to get my first job because everyone wanted 3-5 years experience. Despite a couple projects from college, I had no real experience because I was involved in athletics and didn’t get an opportunity for an internship. The job I finally got, and still have, is a dead-end job that I’ve already grown out of (in under 4 months).

        For IT to survive in the States, companies need to get back in the practice of hiring employees that are willing and able to learn a position instead of expecting everybody to know everything.

        • #2570757

          True!

          by kyang12 ·

          In reply to Too true

          I am a recent gratz and I had the same problem, I mean how can I get 3-5 years of experience when I wasn’t even given the chance?

    • #3080483

      Psych

      by too old for it ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

      Since you’ll be looking for work about every 3-5 years, it will help to out-think the interviewers.

    • #3080459

      I would say

      by w2ktechman ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

      Probably something in device driver writing. Drivers need updating periodically, and new devices come out often.
      I pointed a friend to this a few years ago when he asked. After doing searches for it he found that available jobs (after the burst) were 5 times higher for device driver writers.

    • #3080393

      if you are not already in IT, choose another field!

      by bg6638 ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

      Based upon what I have run into, if you do not have at least 5 yrs exp. working for at least a mid-sized company, BS in CS/MIS, virtually EVERY cert from Msoft, Cisco, Sun, and Redhat, your resume will probably never see the light of day. A Robert Half recruiter told me that he felt that within the next 2-5 years, that a Master’s would be a minimum requirement to obtain a position in either an IT or Accounting related position. IT has not only become a mature field, but also a field that will require fewer and fewer people. I have interviewed with several companies where they have decided not to hire an IT mgr/staff, and outsource all of their IT needs. My 2 cents worth!

      • #3078374

        Master’s wont be a requirement

        by raja b ·

        In reply to if you are not already in IT, choose another field!

        “A Robert Half recruiter told me that he felt that within the next 2-5 years, that a Master’s would be a minimum requirement to obtain a position in either an IT or Accounting related position”.
        I dont think this will ever happen. What is taught in Bachelors is often different from what we do in the industry. IT is something everyone can do. You dont need a degree. Moreover companies will never be willing to pay for an advanced degree.

        Outsourcing is more likely …

        • #3080297

          Master’s will be used only as a screen

          by bg6638 ·

          In reply to Master’s wont be a requirement

          Raja, I agree that a Master’s is not required to work in IT/Accounting, however when an employer/recruiter receives 100+ resumes for a single position, it is obvious that they will set tighter screens. I have seen help desk I jobs where they want 3-5 yrs exp., an MCSE plus a CCIE and a raftload of other certs for a job paying $9/hr in the U.S.! What person with those qualifications would lower themselves to that level?

    • #3080350

      Several options

      by jdmercha ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

      Where I am at they offer: (In order of lowest to highest starting salary)

      A BS in MIS. This is a business degree that includes some technology training. It is ideally suitred for a job such as a business analyst.

      Then there is if BS in IT which is a tecnical degree that includes some business. This degree is best suited for project managers, network egnieers or DBA’s.

      Then there is the CS degree that teaches programming and is best suited to a career in software development.

      The there is the Computer Engineering degree that teaches both harware and software. This degree is best suited for filling the middle between hardware and software, such as dirver developers or OS developers.
      Then there is a EE degree that teaches the electronic. It is best suited for

    • #3078174

      More important than degree

      by hmosqueda ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

      More important than which degree you have is whether or not you are willing to be a slave to the company that you work for. Do more for less is the bottom line these days. It seems that today most companies want someone who is passionate about the IT field, willing to do the tasks that 4 or 5 people use to do, willing to do those tasks for a lower salary, willing to work 24×7 and most importantly, willing to put the company first above all else. Basically you need to be young, nieve, desperate for money and single. It is sad how IT skills have be devalued in the past couple of years. Seriously, I would recommend another field of study. Sure you can make good money eventually, if you learn all there is to know and then some. But, to me, it is not worth the stress. The performance curve is ever increasing. I’d rather spend what’s left of my middle age life, doing something that will benefit me, not the company.

      • #3078164

        Switch to what field?

        by samson06 ·

        In reply to More important than degree

        I totally agree with your post.

        This is one of the few fields where 30 years of experience is a negative rather than a postitive. And these employers are sucking us dry.

        However, if you have a degree and years of experience….what other field can you get into without taking a big pay cut and having to start over? You could spend years in school in another field but there’s no guarantee that it will lead to a decent career.

        • #3078838

          in deep hole

          by bg6638 ·

          In reply to Switch to what field?

          I’m one of those people with 30+ years in IT, but only have an Associate’s Degree. The credits don’t transfer since the degree is over 10 years old. I’ve been looking for two years, with even an interview being hard to get. Gal at the state jobs services made the suggestion that I retire! I’m only in my mid-fifties! How’s that for encouragement? Another recruiter suggested McDonalds. IT was kind to me, but now has left me totally out in the cold. Where does one go to rebuild a career at this stage?

        • #3079486

          Re-invent yourself

          by rbkinsey ·

          In reply to in deep hole

          Easy to say and hard to swallow, but re-invent yourself. Take some time to figure out what you really would enjoy doing and put together a plan on how to get there. If you have spent the last 30 plus years unhappy, now is the perfect time for you to start something that will make you happy.

          If you really feel like you’re in a deep hole, you need to get a hold of yourself and be determined to have and project a positive attitude. It will help you make the hole disappear and believe that it is possible for you to realize your dreams. Next work your plan and let nothing get in your way to success.

        • #3078498

          the hole is deeper than you think!

          by bg6638 ·

          In reply to Re-invent yourself

          I was very happy with IT, until my employer went bankrupt, and I found that the IT job market has declined very sharply. The few positions that are available, either want project management skills, or CCIE level skills with mid to large networks. I have only worked in one person IT shops, where I wore all hats from programmer thru IT mgr. That effectively kills my resume for the aforementioned type jobs. Five servers, 50 workstations, and myself to supervise hardly impresses “HR” when their networks have 25-50+ servers and 500+ workstations in multiple locations.

          Yes, I am targeting small area companies, but I have found that many are just outsourcing the work as needed. Some really could use an IT person, but with budgets tight, they cut corners. Freelancing has brought some work in, but the work is very light.

          I have thought about working towards a bachelor’s in MIS/Accting, but five years of college combined with 2 yrs of previous underemployment, plus late 50’s when I’ve completed the coursework makes me very skeptical of that move……

        • #3080215

          Regaining IT Footing

          by smilodon ·

          In reply to the hole is deeper than you think!

          bd, why go back to college? What about a cert such as CCIE if that is an area you enjoyed in your previous job and that might help you get hired by one of those large employers. I bet you would have jobs coming out of yours ears, enough to last you 12 or 15 years to retirement. I realize you are in a tough spot, best of luck to you.

        • #3079883

          Try consulting

          by tread ·

          In reply to the hole is deeper than you think!

          Get into the companies that outsource these positions, there are lots of companies that have on staff IT people and that is all they do. You would fit right into one of these positions

        • #3079760

          consulting has been hardy lucrative

          by bg6638 ·

          In reply to Try consulting

          In my area, I’ve seen quite a few companies that have 1-5 servers with 5-50 workstations, using “ABC Computers” and the like, who employ $7.25/hr techs, for their IT support team! This has hurt my efforts as a single individual operation, since some have been burned due to the lack of technical expertise exhibited by these firms. But, you get what you pay for! I’ve spoken with several dozen HR people in targeted firms, and while they have indicated that I’m the type of person that they need, budget considerations have prevented them from hiring any experienced IT staff, even on a part-time basis!

          The professional support companies on the other hand, want a BS in CS, 5-10+ yrs exp. working for a similar VAR, virtually every cert offered from Cisco, Citrix, Msoft, Novell, Redhat, and Sun, just to get in the door for an interview!

        • #2570796

          Allot of drama going around

          by paul.huber ·

          In reply to Switch to what field?

          Perhaps it gets back to the basics, supply and demand, during the .com we increased H1 visa’s to 70K yearly and today the market in flooded. I really believe some of this is because management is still angry we where billing at 325 an hour at that time and there still paying for it!

    • #3078626

      no need for a choice

      by gkrew ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

      as a former CS major I used to be upset to meet people who majored in English or History then got an IT job. It used to appear to me that the degree did not matter. I say do what you want to do and what challenges you.

    • #2570811

      IT Consultant

      by paul.huber ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

      I have the work experience of a Masters Degree in Computer Science, yes I believe higher education makes you more articulate and professional but consider this. The reality is in service delivery, deployment, and applications you need allot more than a degree to be successful. I remember being quite surprised from college where we learned Assembler and COBOL in Computer Science programs. This was a nice start, but I had to write CICS transactions with direct calls to databases. The point to get results, not manage an outsourced environment, you have to be able to drill down into the details from experience or you will fail and serve no purpose and everyone knows it.

      The reality is without proprietary education from hardware vendors such as IBM and SAP education programs, combined with years of experience, the higher education is less important than the experience. Even the private education falls short of the actually work in service delivery, deployment, and applications you have to be able to absorb technical information quickly from literature available. The same debate would be had over certification verses experience, where the later prevailed in most circles, and reality at this point make some experts sound ?dumb and dumber? implying this is critical. I enjoy IBM Global Services perspective that it?s all about your experience, with 45 billion in services and outsourcing they seem to be at the top of there game.

      Perhaps today, since IT doesn?t seem to build people anymore, and everyone starts as a subject matter expert the correct answer is a Masters Degree in Computer Science and English, followed by 3-5 years in a apprentice type program. I mention English because our programs today are so objective the communication and debating skills have become so critical in the art of persuasion.

      A opinion.

    • #2570781

      my suggestion

      by jck ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

      get an M.B.A. learn to manage things. get a minor in computer information systems or something.

      within 25 years, there won’t be IT careers here if things keep going the way they are. They’ll all be in Asia or Africa.

    • #2828930

      Sterotypes are alive and well in IT!!

      by jaehn_barbara ·

      In reply to What’s the best degree for a career in IT?

      As a plumb middle aged self taught expert, I found that I hit the ceiling early on in my IT career and a degree was REQUIRED. I watched department heads fall all over themselves for “self-taught genius” (all male)– so sorry but women need to have degrees.

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