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  • #2291686

    Windows Vs. Novell – Who is better? Why?

    Locked

    by bratt ·

    Alright it’s getting to be about that time where we are re-evaluating our server software and getting ready to upgrade or change what we are using. Currently we have Novell 4.11 and it’s been rock solid, but (don’t get mad Oz) I need to look at what is right for the company as far as integrating other software and ERP applications, the users, and TCO figures. Opinions anyone? Why Windows or why not, why Novell or why not? No this is not for a college paper this is for my research I was asked to do for work. I need to hear from others with hands on experience what their opinions are and why they think what they do.

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    • #3345684

      ERP Solution?

      by dafe2 ·

      In reply to Windows Vs. Novell – Who is better? Why?

      I guess the first question I’d have is what tools were on on the table?

      Both NOS’s are solid performers.

      SAP /r3 & MY SAP runs under Windows. As far as I know they’re not supported on Novell. (Others may know for sure though)

    • #3345680

      it’s gonna have to be one or the other.

      by secure_lockdown9 ·

      In reply to Windows Vs. Novell – Who is better? Why?

      novell are going linux all the way and dumping netware. they are a solid company but it’s a new product that they are making. i am very VERY cautious when entering “new product”-land.

      microsoft are – well, microsoft – what more can we say.

      re: ERP. a few of our ERP vendors are developing for linux platform – so it’s an option – but i ain’t going to be sucker who steers my company onto the “new” linux platform and take the fall if it back fires.

      the debate is how much $$$ will you save by going linux as opposed to supporting big bad microsoft. you got a calculator and calculate those costs. the x factor is support. how much hand holding will you need from linux vendors? how much are they gonna want to charge you for it? remember: the open source guys give you the software for free – but they make their money from support.

      • #3345670

        Flashbacks

        by dafe2 ·

        In reply to it’s gonna have to be one or the other.

        Didn’t we just do this?? ;-o

        • #3345657

          you are right.

          by secure_lockdown9 ·

          In reply to Flashbacks

          i think you are right. this thread is sounding very familair. i better give her my classic and fav. link.

          http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

          in particular:
          ————————-
          Before You Ask
          Before asking a technical question by email, or in a newsgroup, or on a website chat board, do the following:

          Try to find an answer by searching the Web.

          Try to find an answer by reading the manual.

          Try to find an answer by reading a FAQ.

          Try to find an answer by inspection or experimentation.

          Try to find an answer by asking a skilled friend.

          If you are a programmer, try to find an answer by reading the source code.
          —————

          🙂

        • #3346780

          Great link

          by rknrlkid ·

          In reply to you are right.

          That’s a great link! I often wish more people would apply these techniques (including myself…I’ve been guilty in the past too).

        • #3346668

          I would rather. . .

          by bratt ·

          In reply to you are right.

          This is only a part of my research I am doing this is not painting the whole picture for me. This place is just another resource for me that is why I posted here, that is what this posting board is for is it not? Any yes this should be familiar to you if you read my discussion I started on VPN appliances that started world war three and went sideways into a Windows Vs. Novell discussion.

        • #3346667

          Bratt – Have you chosen your ERP

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to I would rather. . .

          ???

        • #3346660

          Not as of yet . . . but

          by bratt ·

          In reply to Bratt – Have you chosen your ERP

          The ERP we have in place isn’t what they said it was when we purchased it and what they demonstrated and what we received are two different things. We are currently looking at Microsoft ERP solutions, but again this is in the research phase. I have a feeling we are going to have to decide sooner than we realize though and start the ball rolling.

        • #3346656

          Right on…..you’ll be pleased

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to Not as of yet . . . but

          I’m not sure how many nodes your dealing with..
          but my largest implementation is SAP/R3 & 8500 nodes.

          No ‘real’ issues.

          I think you’ll be pleased & good luck to you

        • #3346976

          sound familiar

          by secure_lockdown9 ·

          In reply to Not as of yet . . . but


          The ERP we have in place isn’t what they said it was when we purchased it and what they demonstrated and what we received are two different things.

          this stuff happens all the time. as donald trump likes to say, “get used to it and get over yourself”.

          and as i like to say, “don’t ever deal with them again”.

          🙂

        • #3346972

          The SAP and the CRAP

          by secure_lockdown9 ·

          In reply to Not as of yet . . . but

          http://www.sap.com/solutions/business-suite/erp/brochures/index.aspx

          http://www.cognos.com/news/releases/2004/0803.html

          it’s all fine and dandy – but who will implement it for you? and how much will it cost? and have they done anything like this before? are you going to be their little “lab rat” and pay *them* for experimenting their idea’s on your company?

          ah… decisions… decisions..

          here a tip – if you don’t have anyone or don’t know of anyone who can implement this for you – don’t be a shmuck – go Microsoft.

          😉

        • #3344978

          not a technical question

          by awfernald ·

          In reply to you are right.

          It’s an opinion question. For a technical question I agree, however, this person is trying to get real life answers, from real life experience so that he/she doesn’t have to learn from their own good/bad experiences and millions of dollars.

          Real life experience is a tad bit difficult to glean from the web/manuals/faqs, experimentation in a case like this is expensive, and maybe the skilled friends don’t exist, or are too biased towards one side or the other.

        • #3344308

          You hit the nail on the head

          by bratt ·

          In reply to not a technical question

          Your right everyone I know and have spoken with can’t give me an opinion based on hands on experience exept for one person. I could read books and manuals all day long big deal that isn’t going to give me the answers I am looking for. I want cold hard facts from people in the industry who have experience with Microsoft and Novell not book worms who have never implimented nothing more than an OS on a desktop computer.

        • #3326548

          BIASED? HERE? Say it isn’t so

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to not a technical question

          All you have to do is look at any of the MS – VS – Linux discussions to see where so many people have their heads so deep in the sand they couldn’t give you an objective answer if their sheltered lives depended on it.

          Just because you know how to do something with one system doesn’t mean that is a good system or the best system.

          Download the free trials of the Novell and play with it. They also have been offering FREE half day seminars on the new Novell on SUSe which covers installation, basic config and operations.

          http://www.novell.com/linux/index.html?sourceidint=homepage_linuxprodsol

          http://www.novell.com/seminars/

    • #3346857

      Both have benefits, but Suse’s not new technology

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to Windows Vs. Novell – Who is better? Why?

      First of all,for a small organization, Novell usually works best as it is more reliable and a solid investment (as you know by running 4.11 still).

      Windows is popular and…….Windows is popular and…

      NOTE: With a Novell server, I would recommend Novell Linus Desktop (Which is Suse based)as opposed to Suse 9.2. Both use the KDE desktop now version 3.3 wich is far mroe compliant and faster than 3.2)

      For a VERY large organization I would recommend Novell as it offers encyption and more security out of the box, handles more simultaneous logins and processes than MS could ever hope to achieve with a boatload of servers.

      Yu can also add MS servers for specific tasks as needed and retain your NOvell platform as a solid and reliable backbone.

      Also, spend some time reviewing the NEW Novell, although the apps are still limited to somewhat basic versions, they are improving and moving forward at a strong and steady pace.

      ERP, although they haven’t a solid solution for many organizations without a lot of code rewriting, there are some ERP solutions available.

      Novell exteNd, Red Carpet or E-Directory permit flawless MS and Novell management/access no problem though, just keep your existing ERP platform/hardware behind it if you wish, again all under the security blanket of Novell.

      In four MS-Novell conversions I did last year, none have complained, [b]service/support calls are way down[/b] and [b]users had no migration problems or learning curves that were hurdles.[/b]

      It looks, feels and works just like Windows on the desktop.
      Try it for yourself:
      Suse 9.2 Live CD: http://www.novell.com/linux/suse/index.html

      Novell Linux Desktop 9: http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/eval.html

      I was doubtful of supposed “new” technology (new being a two year old merger of companies that have been around for many years)too, I rolled it out while sweating something fierce, new hardware and all, after convincing a company to do it.

      I had a rave review, even users loved it, less reboots and hangs, they recommended it to a partner company who also loved it. I then sold another client and that ended up as a 26 location rollout all over Vancouver Island.

      No problems

      I was not a Linux fan and always thought it was hard to get used to and would screw up the way of life for users. I also thought that all Linux flavours were the same.

      I have been proven wrong by actually testing and implementing it without seeing the issues I was told I would face.

      • #3346820

        don’t do it

        by secure_lockdown9 ·

        In reply to Both have benefits, but Suse’s not new technology

        don’t do it. don’t light the gasoline with your matchstick.

        btw – do you have stocks in novell or something?

        • #3346675

          Great post with no relevant countrt, just NO. Whatever! Try it one day.

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to don’t do it

          I have just heard enough from naysayers like yourself and only been proven wrong with each install.

          Hans on experience is what drives my opinion, not thought, preconceived ideas or weblogs, forums etc.

          Tried it, against my own judgement, and had no problem. Tried it again, again no problem. Tried a MUCh bigger install, again no problem.

          Finally tried a large multibranch install all VPN’d and VoIP’d together, STILL no problems.

          I have had more problems just updating NEC TAPI drivers in Windoze than rolling out chainwide Novell Linux.

      • #3346664

        Thanks Oz. .

        by bratt ·

        In reply to Both have benefits, but Suse’s not new technology

        Thank you I knew I could count on you for a educated opinion. And thanks for not killing me for mentioning Microsoft.

        • #3346652

          But you can count on his ‘spin’

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to Thanks Oz. .

          though can’t we.?

        • #3346969

          you sure can….

          by secure_lockdown9 ·

          In reply to Thanks Oz. .


          Thank you I knew I could count on you for a educated opinion. And thanks for not killing me for mentioning Microsoft.

          Oz can also do your plumbing for you and promote your kids alternative rock band and make him a millionaire. Oz is of many talents.

          🙂

        • #3345316

          Thanks for the vote of confidence.

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to you sure can….

          I never pigeonhole myself into one career focus, there’s always time and room for more.

          NO I can’t make your kid’s alternative rock band famous and make him millions. Nor have I EVER implied nor stated as much, that was your conclusion.

          I CAN, WILL and DO take experienced and talented heavy metal acts out of the pathetic North American market and get then started on a solid WORKING career path in Europe though.

          They have to be good, actually talented musicians and have drive, which VERY few bands out here have anymore. I have contacts from my past work in the industry, I send a demo and it actually gets listened to. I recommend a band who is playing in a local pub and someone actually visits to check them out.

          Try and get a break like that out here, good luck.

          Bands in Europe don’t usually seek to become millionaires, they are more concerned about REAL fans and retaining musical integrity by creating music that shows who they are, not what the label wants to sell.

          That’s why so many record companie here are struggling now and looking for new ways to conduct business without total control and ownership of personal license.

          Look at ACDC in Australia as an example of integrity. When you buy a CD you know exactly what you are getting. 45 minute FULL CD with 13-15 tracks of good rock’n’roll. NOt one track ou like and 13 experimental tracks the label has produced to market test new trends.

          A famous interview with Angus Young had an reporter asking “Are you aware that you have made 10 albums that ALL sound the same?”

          Angus Young replied “NO….we have made ELEVEN albums that all sound the same” THAT’S WHAT PEOPLE EXPECT!! If one band had all the sound, why have more than one artist on the market?

          As it is today out here, every artist is TOLD to mimick the flavour of the week, when the flavour stops selling they ALL change to the next sound the label wants.

          Sorry, but that just isn’t why people (should) create music and it most definitely does not display individual artistry.

          Your music industry was built on the grass roots of blues where people like Howlin Wolf and BB King etc. al were verytalented and had a unique sound. What happened? Ask the record company that pumps it out.

        • #3326536

          Long live Rock

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Thanks for the vote of confidence.

          It is so nice to hear someone with an opinion on music that matches my own.

          I will like a band, the way they write, the way they play TOGETHER and the sound that results.

          Bands start to get a little fame and then they change the sound to get on the radio and start to enjoy their commercial sucsess. (metalica anyone)

          Or as Gene Simons was quoted as saying “We became corporate whores”. This explaines Dynasty.

        • #3326418

          posted in wrong spot

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Long live Rock

          .

        • #3345274

          Bratt

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Thanks Oz. .

          There’s nothing wrong with MS really, it’s a good product used by many worldwide.

          It is not the end-all solution though, and in most cases would offer far better ROI, TCO and security if coupled with a Novell sever for directory, user and server management. Novell has lower hardware requirements and doesn’t mean you need to run out and buy new hardware. Keep your existing server and upgrade it, then you may want to add a high end server and run MS to get your preferred ERP solution in place, IF you don’t like the open source offerings.

          It’s still more cost effective in most cases, plus YOUR workload and the company’s maintenance costs are greatly reduced.

      • #3346657

        Windows is MORE than just popular

        by dafe2 ·

        In reply to Both have benefits, but Suse’s not new technology

        Windows is more than just popular.

        After 250 nodes Novell’s network performance frankly sucks, wheras Windows just barely breaks a sweat, and that’s befor clustering the servers.

        Most ERP solutions involve more than 500 seats……..that’s why I asked what ERP solution this person was after.

        • #3346966

          not to mention

          by secure_lockdown9 ·

          In reply to Windows is MORE than just popular

          You can also pay your windows Sys admins/DBA admins minimul wage because they are a dime a dozen.

          Have you a clue what a salary for a SAP expert is?

        • #3345318

          I hire them, so I guess I’d have a small clue

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to not to mention

          $500.00 /day + expenses +++

          As far as Windows Admins………you get what you pay for…so 80k year to start is good for me.

          They may be a dime a dozen, but I don’t want one with snot on his nose or one that’s wet behind the ears either. 😉

        • #3345288

          Obviously

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to I hire them, so I guess I’d have a small clue

          You seem to enjoy hanging on to outdated dogma.

          I have seen some Novell installs with severalk thousand nodes without an issue.

          Lets have a look shall we?

          Novell 6.5 (probably a good 5 years after what you are referring to)

          >iFolder supports synchronizing multiple clients.
          -MS, Offline folders supports ONE.

          >iFolder only updates changed info as needed, this it is more efficient and bandwidth frendly requiring less processing power
          -MS Offline folders requires alot of bandwidth due to the entire folder being uploaded on synch.

          >The Nterprise Branch Office automatically provides data and directory synchronization services to corporate hubs, as well as local network, authentication, Web and printing services.
          -Microsoft recommended configuration requires five servers for a branch office solution.

          >iSCSI SANs?NetWare 6.5 provides ability to cluster iSCSI SANs for geo-site failover. Supports up to 32 servers in a cluster.
          -MS doesn’t support the cluster

          You mentioned MS does it without clustering, clever. MS doesn’t allow clustering unless in Enterprise or Data center versions because it relies on the individual Windows registry, generally resulting in security vulnerabilities.

          >The mature file storage and handling capabilities of NetWare (NSS) provide capacity as well as consistency. The result is less down time, fewer failures, and greater scalability than available with Win2003.

          >i-Manager allows management through ONE interface
          -MS requires sveeral tools for even the simplest management

          >Netware offers a better server consolidation utility, MS merely offers a migration/upgrade tool.

          >e-Directory will dance circles around AD with ease

          >Novell is tuned to a specific purpose with optimal server and parameter settings.
          -Win2003 Roles are only selected components with no customized tuning or optimization. Installing Roles on top of each other is possible,Although you can add theseontop of each other, there is a far reater risk of corruption.

          [u]The latest Netware 6.5 (Linux)[/u]

          >NetWare provides everything needed to create new enterprise-class open source applications or to run existing open source applications out-of-the-box. Microsoft requires additional products and licences to achieve the same.

          > Novell’s DirXML provides integration services for various different directories including Active Directory and NT domains.
          -MS does not offer this integration. (this is why MS users can’t see the two working together).

          >LDAP?eDirectory integrates with LDAP and can function as standalone LDAP server.
          -Minimal LDAP v3 compliance with limited support. Active Directory cannot be used as a standalone LDAP directory

          [u] Web services[/u]

          >J2EE?NetWare 6.5 fully supports J2EE standard 1.3 with ability to run open source code from large library of existing applications.
          -MS is hidden source, therefore it will only allow software converted to run on Windows.

          >exteNd Application Server?NetWare 6.5 includes exteNd Application Server, a fully compliant and comprehensive, J2EE certified platform for building and deploying enterprise-class Web applications
          -MS, does not include an application server in the box

          >exteNd Workbench
          -Win2003 does not include application development tools or IDE. This entails MORE software, added costs and more management, hardware investments.

          [u]OFFICE[/u]

          >Virtual teams, web based group collaboration
          -MS nothing evenremotely comparable.

          >eGuide – Directory information to users as needed
          -MS nothing….NADA

          >E-mail – Novell’s Virtual Office includes e-mail gateways that provide Web access to GW, Lotus Notes, Exchange and Novell NetMail. Users are able to access e-mail from anywhere using a standard browser.
          -Windows doesn’t even come close tocomparing to this functionality

          AGAIN THIS IS OUT OF THE BOX!

          [u]TCO[/u]
          Similarly priced to Windows 2003 Standard Edition, NetWare 6.5 provides all of the functionality of Microsoft’s Enterprise and Datacenter versions plus 32 node clusters with 32-way SMP.

          Novell licencing and cost is simplified and capability is greater with management for complete range of services integrated through eDirectory.

          >Licensing?NetWare 6.5 provides flexible licensing based on the needs of an organization. Licenses can be per user, per server or per organization.
          -The MS licensing subscription model is expensive and requires ongoing payment for continued right to use software [b](license expires!!).[/b]

          >NetWare on average requires less hardware power to provide the same level of capability.
          -Less efficient design requires more RAM and processing power to provide the comparable level of services in NetWare.

          >Support costs with NetWare are lower. Users can do more for themselves through the Web and eDirectory simplifies user provisioning and administration.

          >NetWare 6.5 Server Consolidation Utility and eDirectory flexibility make it easier to work between versions, migrate from other sources, reorganize and rearchitect.
          -MS provides an upgrade tool that requires replacing earlier version to bring them up to date.

          Win2003 is Windows NT/2000 with modifications and follows the historical Microsoft tradition of superficially updating features and interfaces while leaving the same fundamental desktop operating system architecture in place.

          The architecture in NetWare provides better security and higher performance which leads to long-term reliability and high scalability.

          In short, Novell is an out of the box scalable solution at a lower TCO that MSServer 2003.
          Management tasks are simplified, consolidated and again reduce licensing and hardware costs.

          MS 2003 is just the same old BS Microsoft with a new Web Server.

          Now your concern is for multiple nodes, I can appreciate this. Novel offers server clustering to achieve the same results. Even the added hardware costs are easily explained with the reduction in initial software and licencing costs, renewal costs, and additional management required with MS servers. MS triesto avoid clustering due to the inability for central management that e-Directory and i-folder achieve with ease.

          And the bottom line for ANY company’s benfit, it is FAR more stable and secure.

          [b]NOW THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE YOU HAVE COMPLETELY MISSED ALTOGETHER[/b]

          First of all your complaints began with user issues. That now being proven as a non issue, you resort to high numbers of network nodes.

          Now the thing at question here is the company it is being applied to.

          NOTE THE COMMENTS: Currently we have Novell 4.11 and it’s been rock solid

          So how does your last comment have ANY relevance at all?
          [i]After 250 nodes Novell’s network performance frankly sucks, wheras Windows just barely breaks a sweat, and that’s befor clustering the servers.[/i]

          You do realize we are not discussing YOUR organization but one that operates fine with a Netware 4.11 server right?
          Obviously you skipped that MOST IMPORTANT issue in your haste to support your predetermined conclusion.

          The original posters comment actually makes yours completely inapplicable and irrelevant. Try addressing the customer issue, not just addressing your own beliefs, LOL! [b]Avoid consulting at all costs![/b]

          now as I said before, if the guy is looking for an ERP solution for a smaller organization, Npvell open source does offer basic solutions, must most need customization.

          Therefore, if the chosen solution is not Novell based, run it on a stand alone MS server and use Novell for all of the rest. At least Novell will work WITH MS. Oh and it can be centrally managed and maintained.

          Sure looks like MS is the expensive, high maintenance, less secure option IN THIS SCENARIO.

        • #3345273

          Actually I was answering Sec’s comment

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to Obviously

          But seing as you mention a few thing like……….nah….

          I don’t know where you got your MS info, but if he works for you you better fire him.
          The post is just so full of holes, BS & untruths it’s not even worth addressing….sorry.

          I also asked “Bratt” a couple of questions & offered GENERAL comments. He had not offered feedback until he told me they where considering an MS solution.

          I’ve worked with Novell long ennough to understand it’s limitations as well as it’s home (IMO)

          Now, forgetting your predictable MS slams and don’t forget to fire the guy that gave you the MS BS 😉 :

          I do agree that if there’s an ERP solution out ther that runs under NOVELL fill your boots NOVELL is a proven rock solid NOS.

        • #3345266

          You’re good!

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Actually I was answering Sec’s comment

          You actually read and verified the truth behind all that in what…5 minutes? Sure you did, that’s why you didn’t offer any counter ‘MS BS/proof’.

          These are facts taken from MANY sources, yes including some obviously biased untruths or LIES from Novell, we all know that’s how they achieved success, not by performance but by BS marketing. Others are from mixed test environments found on the net, others from consultants etc. Th enumber of soures was why I didn’t offer credits nor copied and pasted directly from them.

          SO what you are implying is that in a mere 5 minutes you can make such a blanket comment?

          What was that thread again? TECH’S KNOW IT ALL?

          Let me ask you how many Novell based MIXED environments you have configured and currently manage then. I know you have done a few, but how does THAT experience apply to THIS client?

        • #3345257

          Trust me OZ

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to Actually I was answering Sec’s comment

          ** I may have edited my original post while you answered so you may want to read it again 🙂

          I know WTF I’m doing with MS. I also did not say your Novell comments where wrong. I agreed with them based on what YOU said.

          I don’t agree with the MS stuff you said – period.

          You seem to know what your doing with NOVELL & I have NO real experience with it, nor will I bother researching something your familiar with.

          I’m not ‘implying’ anything -> I know my s.hit with MS…..believe it. Now relax willya. 😉

        • #3345254

          I answered you. . .

          by bratt ·

          In reply to Actually I was answering Sec’s comment

          First of all I am not a guy! Second of all I did answer one of your posts. We have Novell 4.11 running on a p-3 which is older than dirt. Our ERP has serious issues in performance and the company who makes it says it’s because of Novell. We currently have a total of 50 users and four servers. We run Windows 2000 Pro on users systems and I am testing out XP. Two of the servers are basic Windows 2000 Pro that we use for small things and the other is a linux box for the ERP. If we decided to change the ERP software out and go with something like Great Plains it would work best with Microsoft SBS. We also need to alow our mobile users to see the network drives so they can work more effectively from home. Did this answer your questions?

        • #3345246

          Yes……..I know Bratt

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to Actually I was answering Sec’s comment

          That comment of mine didn’t ‘sound right’….my appologies. ( That includes referring to you a ‘guy’ 🙂

          I think I got Oz a little wound up…

          I was just saying that we where speaking in general terms……..

        • #3345241

          That’s my whole point though

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Actually I was answering Sec’s comment

          NO I am not an MCSE, but I have configured and designed many MS/Novell/Unix mixed shops. The comments i found echoed my own feelings from my experiences, I didn’t include what I hadn’t experienced myself.

          You also mentioned something in your last post to Bratt “I was just saying that we where speaking in general terms……..”

          But we are talking about a speciic application, not general terms, that’s my point.

          I am not getting pis*ed at all, if I disagree and offer MY opinion is that now considered getting pis*ed?

        • #3345237

          Bratt

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Actually I was answering Sec’s comment

          NOvell’s i-Folder will solve OS many mobile users issues and do it efficiently as it only updates what is changed instead of a full upload of all documents everytime. i[Folder SOLD me on thenew Novell by itself, I work allover the place and it is alfesaver, not to mention easy on bandwidth and upload restrictions from ISP’s, thus reducing usage costs.

          I have also run into issues with Great Plains on a Novell server, but it was due to the vendor customizing it and only for MS. They tried to make it mroe Netware complaint (though based on Unix) but it didn’t work right until upgraded to Novell Linux. Prior to that, it would merely open in windowed mode. About 400 X 300px

          That’s the vendor’s issue and MS’s limitation though.

          In order to mass sell product it has to be engineered to work WITH a MS environment, although loosely do to restricted access to source code.

          People that make software that IS Novell compliant ensure it works seamlessly and resoucefully with it. Thus resulting in more stable software in the long run.

          I would say you should do some research and see what you can et for or with Novell, most peoplehave no idea what’s actually available as they are swamped by MS compatible offerings form sales peopleday in and day out,thus making it seem the only choice.

        • #3345236

          I was just teasing you Oz

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to Actually I was answering Sec’s comment

          I get a kick out of your (for lack of a better word) protective you are of Novell/Linux. I’m the same with MS.

          I was only teasing because I expected your response. You knew damned well I’d bite at that MS crap. 🙂

          I was talking with ‘Bratt’ in general terms, not trying to resolve anything. How could I possibly offer anything more? However, any comments I made where in fact from my REAL experience knowing I’ve only worked on or with about a hundred Novell/MS (Integrated) shops. Not nearly ennough to speak intelligently about NOVELL alone.

          I respect your Novell & real world skills.

          I can tell the difference between MS FUD & MS (real) deficiencies & I too will address them in the required manner.

          In this case it was BS & it didn’t deserve much more than a comment….no offense.

        • #3345233

          dafe2

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Actually I was answering Sec’s comment

          Nobody filled me with MS BS, and I didn’t slam MS in anyway. It was a comparisson based on what I have seen, what others have seen and what I have experienced in those mixed environments.

          But I’ll remember to fire myself, or better still only use MS where it makes sense.

          NOTE: Comments in my comparisson wer mostly OUT OF THE BOX comments, yes MS does offer SOME tools to do some of the tasks, but at a cost and another license! At THAT point it looks bleak as a viable or cost effective solution, as opposed to a mixed environment.

          To save yet another post that is going nowhere, it’s NOT all BS if it is first hand experience is it?

        • #3345230

          Then I call a spade a spade Oz

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to Actually I was answering Sec’s comment

          That may very well what you’ve experienced with MS Based Servers…………but from where I sit, it’s not the norm. Sorry about your luck & your fired.

        • #3345218

          It’s usually the inhouse MCSE’s

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Actually I was answering Sec’s comment

          They are the ones who are constantly sayng it can’t be done, or MS doesnt have that or else wading through a knowledgebase to get it do work as expected.

          I knw, know you will say they aren’t good MCSE’s, in actuality many have been VERY good MCSE’s flown in form the US as MS engineers and with direct contact to MS.

          Novell does it too though, but they fly out engineers that can actually MAKE things work as you want them to, not as they are supposed to.

          I find Novell offers more flexibliity, security and works fine with less demand for hardware, you just keep plopping it on the same server without the need for multiple server environments for email, files erving, printing etc. More robust with a lower demand.

          I don’t think ANYONE can argue the resourcefulness between the two, it’s obvious right on the side of the box.

        • #3345207

          Yo, Bratt

          by secure_lockdown9 ·

          In reply to Actually I was answering Sec’s comment

          50 users is nothing. i got 3000.

          given, you have a relativery small user base, and you already runing netware 4.x, you are a prime contender for open source. one good knowledgable linux/unix sys admin can keep you going.

          i don’t think you should give novell your money. redhat have been in the business a lot longer and IMO should are a safer bet. you could also look at other “real” open source alternatives.

          http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22open+source%22+ERP+solutions&meta=

          huggs & kisses, :-0
          SL

        • #3345150

          OZ & MCSE’s

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to Actually I was answering Sec’s comment

          Well I guess your right again…………that I’d call the in-house MSCE’s incompetent at the worst or closed minded to be generous.

          No (true) MCSE would shoot down or refuse to look at a possible Novell/MS implementation.

          Even a ‘paper’ MCSE should realize Novell & UNIX integration is heavily covered in 70-216.

          It’s covered for a reason —> It works when implemented properly.

          In any event Novell & UNIX stacks are implemented in both Workstation & Server. There are some ‘gotchas’ but it works well.

        • #3345147

          It’s not a matter of being right or wonrg really

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Actually I was answering Sec’s comment

          Just tat obviously we DO agree and after many posts find we agre eat the same level, for the most part.

          I find what happens here is that personal passion often clouds the meaning of the post and it simply takes a few more (or many more ) posts to realize we aren’t all really arguing, just not comparing apples and apples to begin with.

          It’s hard to make your intent clear without tone or inflection involved. The person reading may feel you are frowning and typing fiercely when you are smiling and happily clicking away.

        • #3345278

          True but…

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to not to mention

          Ms teams are usually larer than in Novell shops.

          Where many SMALL MS teams involve at least 5 people, the same Netware team can consist of ONE.

        • #3345155

          It’s hard to tell

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to not to mention

          whether they earn money or print it.

    • #3346762

      Not an “either/or” situation.

      by dstjulien ·

      In reply to Windows Vs. Novell – Who is better? Why?

      “Better” for what? Desktops, servers, security, TCO, ERP?
      This is a complex question and SHOULD test your professionalism. You need to decide based on the requirements, needs, and desires of your organization. NO solution should be removed from the table. “Either/or” is a win-lose position, you need to look for the win-win solution. THAT has never been easy. That is where your professionalism shoud enter.
      I will tell you that I have been a proponet of Novell for many years. The biggest reason for my continued support is because Novell’s philosophy has been oriented to assisting business efficiency through integration rather than segregation. You may want to visit Novell’s site to get a better understanding of the Novell “one Net” philosophy. (http://www.novell.com/offices/americas/canada/egov/whatis.html and http://www.novell.com/solutions/ ) In a nutshell, it means that whatever your business requires, Novell can provide the tools and expertise to integrate it all into a usable heterogenous solution.
      With the integration of traditional Netware services and SuSE Linux called the Open Enterprise Server you get an incredibly stable, proven server platform and set of network tools that allows you to use and integrate whatever is necessary to run your business. ( http://www.novell.com/products/openenterpriseserver/index.html?sourceidint=productscatmenu_oes ) Notice, I did not say that it was “point-click” or easy. What I am saying is, they provide you, as an IT professional, the tools, philosophy and support needed to “build” whatever kind or size of computer services you need for your business to operate securely and efficiently.
      If your business doesn’t require M$ Windows, I strongly suggest the SuSE desktop. It can be tailored to look, feel, and function very simlar to M$ Windows and provides much more stability and security.
      Just because you choose Novell, doesn’t mean you exclude M$. The same is not true if you choose M$. Why not make “best-of-breed” decisions that can be totally integrated rather than limiting your choices to the best of what is available for a closed OS?
      Its your business. Apply your professional due diligence and make your decisions accordingly.

    • #3346700

      Why not both and/or linux..

      by tomsal ·

      In reply to Windows Vs. Novell – Who is better? Why?

      Sorry if I’ve over-simplified the issue but “shooting from the hip” I don’t see the big dilemma on this one at all.

      Novell is a true NOS. Because of this it is very good at what it does — managing and being the network (operating system).

      You can still use Novell as your network and run Windows (or if you prefer…Linux) on your desktops.

      Novell has better network performance and reliability than MS but MS has the support for nearly every app on the planet — so its not far fetched in my estimation as to why its not logical to use both.

      • #3346673

        I have and it works like a charm

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Why not both and/or linux..

        You’re right, MS desktops with a Novell server is slick as can be, and stable.

        I have worked with VERY large corps that use Novell in the server room and nothing but Doze on desktops.

        NOTE: Without any exaggeration, the guys in the server room didn’t touch the desktops and vice versa, the guys in the server room played poker all day, the others worked with pain in the ass Doze issue all day.

        Doze does provide job security, you will always be needed to fix it.

      • #3346653

        Your right…EXCEPT

        by dafe2 ·

        In reply to Why not both and/or linux..

        Depending on the ERP solution, they may not have a client for Linux (On the desktop).

        • #3345213

          You really lit a fire under Oz. . .

          by bratt ·

          In reply to Your right…EXCEPT

          See why I like Oz? He’s very passionate about what he believes in and fights tooth and nail for it and doesn’t buckle for nobody. I answered your post if you look back through.

        • #3345205

          Absolutely………I like him for the same reason

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to You really lit a fire under Oz. . .

          Our opinions may differ but he never speaks when he doesn’t know & neither do I.

          He just chose the wrong OS & won’t shut up about it 🙂

          Yes I just saw your answer…(Sorry);

          Actually, as far as your network & great plains I think you’ll see a major improvement in performance & reliability with SBS 2003 but Great Plains will run fine on WIN2K too. XP on your desktops will only add expense…if you can stay with WIN2K. You could use something like Terminal Services and offer your Dial Up users more than just there network drives too or even use Sharepoint Services if you go the SBS route.

          Would upgrading one of you 2k servers make sense?

        • #3345201

          Experience with…

          by bratt ·

          In reply to Absolutely………I like him for the same reason

          I take it you have had experience with software such as Great Plain by Microsoft before?

        • #3345195

          I have

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Experience with…

          Only about 5 years but very hands on and spent a lot of time customizing it to suit specific needs.

          Again though, running on a MS server with a NOvell backbone. What good is decent software when it isn’t managed by proven secuirty and stability.

          There are also some modded versions, Samco Power accounting (http://www.samco.com/products/powover.htm)

          a cross between Real World and Great Plains.

          I generally work very closely with upper management and acounting departments when recommending products as I work for the company for 4-6 weeks before making efficiency changes.

          I work more on incresing efficiency and streamlining processes than I do as an actual admin. That is just a secondary thing I offer, working remotely to manage systems I have installed.

          I usually work with many staff (a few days or a week at a time) and then make a case based onall my findings, hopefully addressing all needs at the same time. Novell is just a die hard for me as I can trust it and rely on it, without needing new employees, thus completely killing the efficiencies I recommend.

          Not REALLY consulting, not really sales,not really admin F/T, but a mix of everything to ensure proftability and revenue retention, which is what I am paid on, other than the sale of telecom hardware etc. to various clients.

        • #3345194

          Before it was “Microsoft”

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to Experience with…

          Only from the ‘sales’ end 🙂 but a few friends run their businesses on it.

          It reminds me of a small, elegant SAP actually.

        • #3345200

          Of course I don’t buckle

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to You really lit a fire under Oz. . .

          But only because I am completely right.

          NO kidding! 😀

          Actually I HATE conformity, God knows how many political rants THAT has started! I can’t stand ‘sheep’ that merely follow the leader, well unlesof course I am the one leading, even then I hate YES-men who just want to keep me happy. Offer your own damn opinion!

          The one that pi**ses me off themost is when one employee comes and tells you what another is doing worng. I am hands-on enough to know what people around me are doing, usually the person complaining is just sucking up because they don’t feel they are pulling their own weight.

          What ever happened to people just being who they are and saying what they think, not what they are SUPPOSED to think, or even worse what is POPULAR to say or think.

          In your case, small shop, MIGHT have needs for a MS server for your ERP solution. Other than that, keep it as is and save you existing investment, just upgrade your Novell, 6.5 is really slick and easy as hell to manage!

          Just ask yourself, when was the last time your Novell licences expired ? long term costs are also a thing to keep in mind, everything looks flashy and keen when new, but who wants to swap it out every few years for a new flavour?

          As for desktops, the Novell Desktop is about as nice as any MS desktop (especially if you have Novell users) and actually doesn’t need the twice daily reboot and cleanout to keep it working efficiently.

          NO they aren’t completely freesolutions, but they are tested well and very robust, not the new, scary technology some wish to think it is.

        • #3344989

          Really?

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to Of course I don’t buckle

          “As for desktops, the Novell Desktop is about as nice as any MS desktop (especially if you have Novell users) and actually doesn’t need the twice daily reboot and cleanout to keep it working efficiently.”

          Twice daily reboots and cleanouts?

          Better fire the guys that installed those workstations too……..and what the hells a ‘cleanout’ anyway?

          Couldn’t help it 🙂

        • #3344911

          I get it

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Really?

          You are implying that users don’t triple click and mash keys until desktops lock up! What planet did you find your users on?

          Do your users not surf the internet and pick up crap all day long that eventually renders their systems useless as they smile and shrug at you about it?

          Man you DO have it easy, and they PAY you for this?

          I don’t see as many of these issues iwth N Desktop users and Suse users. IN fact they say how nice t is to work all day without such problems.

          You are always referring to ‘the guys’ who did this and that, we aren’t talking MS shops here they usually get rid of those staff when Novell is put in place, dead wood and all that.

          We are talkng Novell shops, where it is THE guy this and that. Yes, for several hundred users, not 6.

          hmmmmmm, and WHY do most MCSE’s fear Novell? Job secutity?

        • #3344899

          Simply put:

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to I get it

          “Do your users not surf the internet and pick up crap all day long that eventually renders their systems useless as they smile and shrug at you about it?”

          No Oz my users work………….and if I had to request a system be restarted twice a day I’d throw the system out the door and buy a new one.
          If I had a user out there ‘surfing all day’ I’m sure they’d be shown where the door was – real quick…….and if they were ‘picking up stuff’ better security measures would be put in place.

          For the record I’m NOT an MCSE & I spend my time managing servers not Desktops. All desktops are locked down. Also for the record: Our tech to user ratio in most MS shops I manage – 2 admins, 1 tech, 700 users, 75 Servers & 650 Workstations.

          If a machine has to be restarted twice a day it’s not stable and needs to be replaced (or) re-imaged.

          So I’d say you were trying to be funny (or) have sub-standard MS installations (or) work in places with very poor acceptable use policies (or) slack network security?

          ‘Fear’ Novell……………not in the least 🙂

        • #3344811

          No they don’t

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to I get it

          Most companies don’t employ really strict user policies here. There are a LOT of internet based companies where users surf the net ALL day as a job.

          People here (out west)generally don’t take well to such stringent guidlines in the workplace, it’s UnCanadian and not accepted. People in BC don’t want to work we just do it so we can play more in our free time. It takes a pretty7 cool employer to succeed these days. Many employers are the worst offenders and feel they must practice what they preach so they don’t push it on others.

          Some companies let you bring your pets to work, they provide pool tables, let users decorate their carols and offices however they choose etc.

          I worked for a company in a highrise where we’d have pub lunches downstairs for a few hours every now and then for the entire staff, on the company budget of course. We had a ‘corporate horseshoe’ pit on the balcony where we were encouraged to take time off midday to chill out(just had to be careful they didn’t go over, 15 floors to a busy street!). As a call center manager I gave a guy $20 to go and buy some pot so he would settle down and start producing. It is a relaxed and trusting work environment that breeds performers…and the odd stoner I suppose, but he was a damn good sales rep!

          Pretty slack and comfortable working environment though, it’s amazng what can be achieved without regiment.

        • #3344809

          Nothing wrong with a healthy workplace

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to I get it

          It’s just good security. There’s nothing wrong with having a healthy workplace.

          Like I said rebooting a machine twice daily comes down to:

          “you were trying to be funny (or) have sub-standard MS installations (or) work in places with very poor acceptable use policies (or) slack network security” 🙂

    • #3345311

      From a long time Novell supporter…

      by tbragsda ·

      In reply to Windows Vs. Novell – Who is better? Why?

      .
      I must unfortunately say Win 2003 is not bad. Novell has been the easy winner when I choose, but those pesky NT server apps keep coming, and I grudgingly put a NT/2k/2003 server up for X app. Well, recentley I replaced a GroupWise 5.2 system running on NW4.11 with GW6.5.2 running on Win2003. Very nice.

      So, do I think Windows is better than NetWare. No way. I have never had a NW server leave me totally stranded. I have had many “reinstalls” of Windows. NDS is a pleasure. To those that have stated speed problems with NW, well, I must ask, are you competent administering a NetWare enviroment? 4.11 (as in this case) running on a 500mhz server can kick a Win 2k server with 2 xeons.

      I have never had a either/or network. I have HPUX boxes sitting next to NW and MS servers. The question should be what fits the bill best. Past that, then you can look at performance/stability questions.

      • #3345281

        What are you using for management though?

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to From a long time Novell supporter…

        I would assume in a mixed environment, easily possible with Netware (as your GW integration proves) you are probably using Novell tools.

        A key factor as you pointed out as both of these (MS and Novell) work VERY well together. Would you try and use a MS server to manage Novell though?

        I am suggesting using MS to run the ERP solution, as Novell has much to be desired although MANY options are available in open source.

        It seems that “MS only” junkies think MS is the end all solution and that it OUTPERFORMS and is MORE RESOURCEFUL than Novell??
        Er…..um….yeah, sure it does! LOL 😀

        Just goes to show you just how proprietarily brainwashing the MCSE training is, especialy when followed by working in MS shop full of other MS junkies.

        We are talking about someone who has had no problems with 4.11 and people are mentioning server loads with too many nodes?

        • #3345261

          eDirectory (NDS) for mgnt.

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to What are you using for management though?

          .
          I have been around Novell products long enough to have heard the discussion of the death of Novell many times, only to see them put out better and better products. The problem with Novell has been its management, and the ceaseless propaganda that MS supporters spit. The MS only folk has no idea what NetWare is or can do. Its dangerous to make decision based solely on a myopic MS is better mind set.

          With that said, for people who know better, putting in a 2003 server may not be the wrong decision. Thinking that Win will provide better performance or stability is silly, but if he must have Win for whatever app, your idea of eDirectory is ideal.

          Its my humble opinion that with Novell behind Linux, we will see a decline/shift in the windows server install base.

          P.S.
          Have you ever met a MCSE(only) worth a dam? I gave up on hiring based on certs long ago.

        • #3345217

          From what I hear

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to eDirectory (NDS) for mgnt.

          MANY shops in the US only hire based on certs?

          Oh well, to each his own I suppose,glad it isn’t my realm though.

        • #3345198

          in canukland

          by secure_lockdown9 ·

          In reply to From what I hear

          and unix land and linux land…certs don’t mean squat.

          even in windows land – they don’t mean much.

        • #3345192

          THey mean you went to school instead or working

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to in canukland

          That’s all most see in them anyway.

    • #3345271

      Raises a new question

      by oz_media ·

      In reply to Windows Vs. Novell – Who is better? Why?

      Just like the old, How many ______ does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

      How many MS servers does it take to _____? 😀

      Or

      How many MCSE’s does it take to manage a MS network running server 2003?

      – 23, 13 to say how great MS is, 10 to find a solution and update it.

      – 36, IF you have 36 servers.

      – 1 IF it is being centrally managed by Novell

      – 13, 2 to download and apply patches (on a 24/7 rotating shift) and 11 to read the manual

      or…..
      😀

      • #3345249

        Harsh.

        by tbragsda ·

        In reply to Raises a new question

        .
        But true. On a serious note, I personally think it was Microsoft certification programs that messed the hole thing up. Long long ago, in a life hardly remembered I got my CNE. It was difficult, but taught me many things that I could take to a employer with confidence. Im not sure what they teach MCSE, but its sure not how to manage a network. People buy books, practice test them selfs through this, and have no real skills to show for it.

        To all you MS cert folk out there, mine is a generalization, you may be very skilled. My question to you, did you learn anything from the MS process?

        • #3345231

          Agreed there are many experienced MCSE’s here

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Harsh.

          Note the keyword EXPERIENCED though.

          I don’t think any of these decent techs found here are relying on MCSE training, thay have formed opinions from trial and error in most cases.

          Unfortunately in a MS environment it is more error than trial. Sorry, couldn’t resist that as I typed it!

          Notice also that they understand MS and candefend it, but many have never worked in amixed environment,this proving that isn’t how MS wants to be seen.

          Novell welcomes the integration, that’s the difference I have noticed when it comesto saving money by retaining pesisting equipment and systems, just bolstering and managing them with Novell.

        • #3345191

          you are mistaken

          by secure_lockdown9 ·

          In reply to Agreed there are many experienced MCSE’s here

          i work at a university and the caliber and quality of IT staff here is astonishing to say the least.

          most staff are very highly competent in windows, netware, linux and unix servers. they can run circles around most of the dopes in the IT media these days.

          we posses some of the original players and hacker/hobbyists who were responsible for making the internet happen back in the ARPAnet days.

          even though these guys don’t like the poor quality of what microsoft produces, they can still see through all the smoke and crackle that the marketoids are pumping you with – and they can see a business reason and justify implementing microsoft in the network environment.

          You need to seperate yourself from the platform babble, the advocate mumbo jumbo when making a decision on what to implement into a business. you need to make you decisions based on what is *best* for the business – not what the advocates want you to do.

          regards,
          SL

        • #3345185

          What does that have to do with the price of eggs???

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to you are mistaken

          You are completely wong in saying that the Chrysler 304 will not accept 350 heads! I am a mechanic and have swapped them directly wihtout any prolems at all. When I was at BCIT for my fifth year in Auto, there were many experienced auto techs in my class.

          Nobody PUMPS me anything, I do not conform and am very skeptical until I see it, I don’t buy opinions you should know that by now.

          My opinions stem from personal experience, I was unaware that we were supposed to ask those we deem most knowledgable before posting?

          Where in this conversation and in my recommendations have I suggested anything BUT a mixed hybrid network utilizing of MS and Novell?

          Who’s got the blinkers on?

          Have said NOTHING about Universiy graduates !?

          Are you jumping to conclusions or what?

          Replace the batteries in your spelunking lamp, you don’t seem to be seeing too clearly.

        • #3345166

          i am not talking about university graduates!!

          by secure_lockdown9 ·

          In reply to What does that have to do with the price of eggs???

          most university graduates can bearly speak english these days.

          i am talking about university IT staff that have been working in IT way before the word “IT” ever existed.

          you do know where networks and networking was born from, don’t you?

        • #3345156

          Yes of course I do

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to i am not talking about university graduates!!

          Origin of the internet: The big mommy server and the big daddy sever really really liked each other, one went on holiday and they needed to talk long distance.

          As for PC’s in a network well that should be pretty self explanatory based on the above wouldn’t it?

          You are talking about University staff, that’s again [b]not addressing or correcting my comment in ANY way at all.[/b]

          I specifically referred to MCSE’s that have no experience, those that are just MCSE’s by passing a test or spending a few weeks in a buffer course.

          I also detailed that most people here are better because f experience and hands on knowledge.

          Are you trying to say such a comment applies to University IT staff that, as you say, “are very highly competent in windows, netware, linux and unix servers. they can run circles around most of the dopes in the IT media these days.” ?

          Gee that sure sounds like some pretty experienced staff with hands-on knowledge to me.

          Or do these guru’s gain their vast knowledge of multiple platforms by becoming MCSE’s?

    • #3345199

      Hey Bratt – I think it was you……

      by dafe2 ·

      In reply to Windows Vs. Novell – Who is better? Why?

      who lit the fire 😉

      I hope your ERP goes well…no matter what you go with………………

      Now;

      OS/2 anyone?

    • #3344525

      Just of quick question

      by house ·

      In reply to Windows Vs. Novell – Who is better? Why?

      …and don’t take this the wrong way. All I want to know is if any of these posts are worth reading, or is it just another war?

      • #3344385

        You guessed it…………!

        by dafe2 ·

        In reply to Just of quick question

        Started off good……..
        Went downhill from there…..but (Bratt)
        got good info before the OS’s started ‘flying.’

        Are you surprised? 🙂

      • #3344315

        Pick and choose. . .

        by bratt ·

        In reply to Just of quick question

        I read between the lines alot and I like watching a good war sometimes because they paint you a picture of sorts if you pay attention.

        • #3326182

          As long as

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to Pick and choose. . .

          The result doesn’t look like a 60’s VW van from the San Francisco…..:-)

          Unless you like that sort of thing of course.

    • #3326168

      Which is better? – depends on what you need.

      by joedcook ·

      In reply to Windows Vs. Novell – Who is better? Why?

      I have used/sold/supported Netware since 1987 and Windows since 1988 although I have only used Windows servers since 2000… never was successful with NT.
      I have installations that vary from 2 users to 50 users so my customers are all small businesses. I almost always recommend Novell Small Business Suite unless a customer has a requirement for Windows Server such as MS-SQL or a vendor that will only support their product on a Windows network.

      In my experience E-Directory (NDS) is much simpler to manage than Acive Directory. Novell SBS 6.5 is much simpler to install that previous versions and includes several open source items like apache, perl, php, etc. all of which can be configured and installed at one time. It includes licenses for 5 servers out of the box so you can have a server for file and print, another for Web services, another for Groupwise. Licenses for all the included products are covered.
      Stay tuned to Novell for a Linux version of this same product.
      On that subject the more I use Linux the more I like it. I have never wanted to leave the Novell environment but if I must then Linux will be the choice that I make.
      In my own business I use a Netware 6.5 Small Business server with a combination of Linux and Windows workstations. I use SUSE 9.1 as my own desktop with KDE but the Novell Linux Desktop may be more appropriate for corporate desktops.
      The best solution is to use the products where they have the most strength, Novell for file and print servers and E-Directory + Groupwise, Linux for Web Server + Desktops, Windows if required for Application Servers + Desktops.
      While I believe that the Netware and Linux platforms are generally more secure, you have to be security conscious and alert no matter what platform you are running.
      Don’t know if this helps… good luck.

      • #3326166

        KDE

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Which is better? – depends on what you need.

        WHil Novell desktop and SuSe both use KDE, it is important with distros prior to SuSe9.2 to update the KDE to version 3.3 as it boots SO much faster, the main annoyance behind SuSe 9.1.

        I don’t know if you knew this and didn’t mention it or if this is helpful to you, just figured I’d offer the info anyway, just in case.

        • #3326153

          KDE 3.x

          by joedcook ·

          In reply to KDE

          I plan to upgrade to 9.2 soon so I haven’t ugraded the KDE 3.2.1 that I am using now.

          Any new installation of course should be 9.2 for the SUSE Professional product.

        • #3326147

          Do it as a stand alone

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to KDE 3.x

          I gues syou know that SuSe does offer a link to upgrade older versions to KDE 3.3?

          Worth a quick fix until you upgrade the OS, and start paying for new licenses, ensuring you meet the hardware compatibility list and add more RAM to make it all work right.

          http://www.novell.com/linux/download/linuks/index.html

          Amazingly, I couldn’t find a checkout button, I don’t know how you can go about paying for all of this but if not, just download and use it until someone complains. I think you have a whilein that respect.

    • #3326005

      Our experience with Netware

      by just a guy from spain ·

      In reply to Windows Vs. Novell – Who is better? Why?

      I work for a public administration in Spain.
      We have the largest Novell network in Europe (over 40.000 users). Novell Netware has been performing very well for many years. We don’t even think about migrating to another system.

      However, I may suggest a version upgrade as another alternative.

      The strong points of Netware are:
      – Reliability.
      – Easy of administration (thanks to eDirectory).

      • #3326002

        Nice user base.

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Our experience with Netware

        Just out of curiosity, how many techs do you have?!?

        • #3326514

          Top 10 Tree sizes

          by tbragsda ·

          In reply to Nice user base.

          .
          While working for Bank One in Chicago, we were on the top ten of largest trees. Little braging point, but intersting.

        • #3326420

          Cedar Grove

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Top 10 Tree sizes

          You want big trees you should see Cedar Grove in the Island. Not quite as big as some of the California Redwoods, but they actually still stand.

        • #3326900

          techs

          by just a guy from spain ·

          In reply to Nice user base.

          There are 52 regional goverments in Spain. There is a netware server (a cluster, actually) for each region, and a chief system administrator supporting it. Depending on the user base located on each region, there are additional techs…

          Additional infraestructure is located in Madrid, which we call “Central Services”. Root servers are located here.

      • #3326508

        Yikes………

        by dafe2 ·

        In reply to Our experience with Netware

        The largest Windows network (I’ve) worked with in Canada has 25,000 nodes. (Federal Dept)

        They run a massive Novell & Banyan Network as well & for the same reasons you’ve identified.

        Each admin will tell you the others ‘suck’. I think it would be fun to lock them all in a room for an hour myself.

        But hey, that’s just me.

        • #3326417

          Nodes

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Yikes………

          I don’t think it was youself but just recently in one of these threads someone stated how Novell was useless over a few hundred nodes, which is really a farce of a statement because that is one of Novell’s noticeable strengths against Windows, it is far more resourceful and robust in that respect.

        • #3326411

          Sure it was me

          by dafe2 ·

          In reply to Nodes

          We tested Novell against Microsoft. That was our Opinion. Once we hit 250 nodes we seemed to have issues.

          As far as the size of the 40k Network….there are Novell, MS Networks & Vines networks here in Canada that are just as large or larger that perform flawlessly every day of life. It’s not ‘unique’. (Maybe for Spain)

          The biggest one I (personally) ever worked on was for the Canadian Gov. 25k nodes (Again big, but not huge).

        • #3326396

          Fair enough

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Sure it was me

          I haven’t tracked back to see how it was exxplained but from what I remember it was a pretty sound assertion of why Novell wasn’t as good as MS for larger networks.

          Perhaps just another gerneralization without qualification.

          I just picked up some conflict in your statements but didn’t want to track through to see who and why they said it.

    • #2657694

      What is the date?

      by ajolivier ·

      In reply to Windows Vs. Novell – Who is better? Why?

      Does anyone know the most current end of life for Netware?

Viewing 11 reply threads