Questions

25GB 'unknown' on my laptop c:drive

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0 Votes
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25GB 'unknown' on my laptop c:drive

cyuno
I am using windows xp on the vpn. I ran a scan on spacemonger and windirstat and discovered there is 25GB 'unknown' sitting on my c: drive taking up space. windows tells me the c drive is healthy, and shows no extra partition. i ran a diagnostic from seagate and the c drive passed. I ran sophos anti rootkit and avg anti rootkit and no rootkit. I also ran rootkit revealer and nothing out of the ordinary.

windows says i have a 48GB c drive. I ran a defrag report and the report says I am using 23GB and have 25GB free! Defragging has not helped. Disabling the restore points has only released 4.5GB of space.

Help!

Thanks in advance for your assistance.
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    ThumbsUp2

    So, what exaclty is your question? Help with what?

    Don't you think it's strange that the so called "scans" report there is 25GB of "unknown" and yet Windows says there's 25GB of free space (exactly the same amount) and that only 23GB is used? How can there be 25GB of "unknown" if only 23GB is used? If there was 23GB used plus 25GB unknown, your hard drive would be completely full and Windows wouldn't be able to start.

    Don't place all of your faith in those so called "scans". Do you understand that when files on your hard drive are "deleted", they're not really deleted? The space used by the file is simply marked as free to use again? Defrag doesn't change that. It just moves the files around. So, your so called "scans" may simply be seeing the fact that there is something IN that space and it can't tell you what it is because it's not really accessable. The bits are on, that's all.

    But, if you're concerned about space being used on your hard drive that you don't want to be used without your knowledge, I suggest you delete your temporary internet files. Visiting sites such as the ones you mentioned, which are riddled with pop-up ads, cookie dropers and who knows what else, means you've probably got a LOT of temporary files stored.

    Also, I find it odd that you seem to know all about VPN, hard drive scans, healthy drives, partitions, hard drive diagnostics, rootkits, defrag and restore points. Yet you don't know how to run Windows Explorer to take a look at things for yourself? And, you don't know about NOT opening up your entire hard drive, registry included, to web sites such as the ones you mentioned? How many of your passwords and bank accounts have now been compromised? Think about it.

    <edited typo>

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    cyuno

    no, the 25gb was taking up that space BEFORE I did the scanning. I have checked the hard drive after I have downloaded the scanning tools.

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    OldER Mycroft

    I quote:

    "I ran a scan on spacemonger and windirstat and discovered there is 25GB 'unknown' sitting on my c: drive taking up space"

    So you didn't know before you did the scan, did you?

    By the way, what IS the total size of your harddrive - you never said?

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    nentech

    But is most likely a corrupt directory or file tables

    Best thing to do
    Back up all your data
    Format the drive
    Then restore your data

    Col

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    pc21geek

    Disable hibernation and reboot. See if the 25 gigs is gone. Also how much page file space have you allocated?
    If hibernation is enabled, the file called hiberfil.sys will continue to grow. Check that and seee what you find. By default this is a protected windows file, so you willhave to unhide protected system files to see it. Just diable hibernation and see what happens.

    Regards,

    Kevin

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    nentech

    That is a very funny thought
    Please tell me where I can get a motherboard that needs that much HDD space
    I will start saving for it now
    Lets see 4 8gig ram modules will give me 32 gigs
    That should be just enough for the next version of windows
    May need to add more for the first service pack maybe 64 gig

    Yes it is possible but very unlikely
    Yes I do know some servers can handle that amount of memory

    But the size of the paging file should be looked at

    Col

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    cyuno

    Thanks to you both. I disabled hibernate and edited the registry to 0 0 on the page file but that 25GB is still sitting there...

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    nentech

    You have unhidden all files and folders including system files and folders

    Look at the C drive
    Set the folder view to details
    See if you can find any large files
    Use Ctrl A to select all files and folders
    Click to see their properties and size
    This will tell you if you have any large files

    You may want to check for compressed folders, which can make the size of the files look larger than the total space on the drive

    Also some files will not be included because of folder and/or security settings
    They take space but are not able to be accessed

    Col

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    pc21geek

    I have seen hibernation files grow very large. It has nothing to do with a motherboard either. Clearly you do not work with alot of laptop users. What does ram have to do with hibernation files any way?
    I think you need to go back and learn about laptops.

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    OldER Mycroft

    Unto the breach, etc etc.

    Dear pc21geek,

    I don't know what you are in the habit of taking for purposes of relaxation/enjoyment but it is affecting your squash.

    My laptop has no hibernation file, mainly because there are a lot more things I could be doing with the harddrive space. However I never managed to regain 25GB in the process.

    You asked "What does ram have to do with hibernation files any way?".

    For your information, the hibernation file is only designed to accommodate whatever data is in memory at time of activation. Therefore a 512MB laptop has a hibernation file of 511MB; a 1GB laptop has a hibernation file of 1023MB; etc etc ad nauseum.

    By it's very nature it is a snapshot of the memory immediately prior to shutdown, but it is not an entry in a photographic album! The file size does not grow with each snapshot.

    If it helps you, think of it as more of a disposable Polaroid photograph.


    <Edited for clarity>

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    nentech

    Learn something about hibernation and paging
    I will not bother to repeat what Old Mycroft has said in his post

    http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=101&threadID=239286&messageID=2330612

    Get a clue

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    Sue T

    is it a hidden restore partition put there by the manufacturer? If you open your computer and look at the hard drive what size does the label say?

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    ashij

    So.. Since you haven't accepted any answer (although I think ThumbsUp2 already answered your question in his first post), I have a lot of questions for you if don't mind..

    1. "I am using windows xp on the vpn"
    Q. are you connecting TO VPN from this machine or are you connecting to this machine FROM VPN

    2. "windows says i have a 48GB c drive. I ran a defrag report and the report says I am using 23GB and have 25GB free!"
    Q. Did you ever open "My Computer" and check how much disk space is being used and how much is free? From what windows is trying to tell you is that you have 25GB FREE and 23GB used, then 25+23 = whoa it's 48GB (exactly ThumbsUp2's point)

    So when the scanners that you ran tried to tell you that the space was "unknown", can we assume simply that it's NOT BEING USED ?

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    cyuno

    Hi Ashij. Only 2.48GB is free on the c drive. The capacity is 48GB. My actual usage of my files appears to be 4.5GB. This is when right clicking on the directory I work in under 'properties'. Programs take up apparently up 8GB after removing some programs that I have not used. Again this is after right clicking the program file under 'properties'. There are other miscellaneous files that I do not want to delete. I would say there is about 23GB that I can say are being used by me. I still cannot find out what this 'unknown' quantity is.

    I am connected to the vpn remotely.

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    OldER Mycroft

    If you are comfortable accessing a VPN remotely you must be reasonably 'keyed-up' with the technology.

    However, it is only as a result of some sort of scan performed on a whim, that you are now panicking so much about lost space.

    "My actual usage of my files appears to be 4.5GB. This is when right clicking on the directory I work in under 'properties'."

    So, your files occupy less than 10% of total harddrive space - hardly a 'power user'.

    "Programs take up apparently up 8GB after removing some programs that I have not used. Again this is after right clicking the program file under 'properties'"

    Hardly what I would call 'heavy usage'.

    "There are other miscellaneous files that I do not want to delete. I would say there is about 23GB that I can say are being used by me."

    At least 2.5GB of these is your Operating System - so you definitely don't want to delete them!

    "I still cannot find out what this 'unknown' quantity is."

    Firstly, it is NOT UNKNOWN. It exists within your harddrive, and by your own definition: it is space that you have not touched nor have any need of, since you are already panicking and deleting files out of your occupied 8GB.

    I'm sorry but if you trully only have 2.48GB of free space left your system should be crippled and no mistake. It should not be operating at all if it is running with 5% free space.

    Lastly, I have to ask: Why did you right-click "on the directory I work in under 'properties'" - that will not give an accurate representation.

    Right-click on C: and have a look at properties from there. How much free space does your WHOLE harddrive have?

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    nentech

    It appears that everybody has been wasting his or her time trying to help this person

    Why you would include VPN in a question about lost disk space beats me

    My final suggestion to him

    Cyuno get someone who has I clue about IT to have a look at your PC

    What a waste of time

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    cyuno

    I discovered the laptop is no longer supported by IT which is why I'm doing this.
    When they were going to tell me my laptop was not supported, I don't know.

    Everyone, even the caustic bunch, have been a great help.

    Thanks.

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    TG2

    Performance of a system can be impacted by size and space, but 2.48 gigs free is still plenty of drive space for a useable computer.

    this user needs to figure out what is and is not occupying his drive space.

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    OldER Mycroft

    And more importantly, 5% is still 0.5 of 10%.

    So - tell me oh wise sage:

    Where, in your logic, is 2.48GB sufficient space in which to manipulate a system base of 45GB that probably includes a contiguous file > 4.8GB ???


    <Edited for typo>

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    TG2

    In your original message, you've stated that you did a scan of your computer using Spacemonger and Windirstat (programs). These programs are supposed to give you a representation on what is on your drive, where there are large chunks (files etc) so that you can better manage how much you have.

    If you right click your C drive, you should get a "used space" and a "free space" what does this information tell you?

    does it tell you (as you first posted) that you have a 48 gig drive, 23 gig used, and 25 gig free?

    What happens if you compare that to using the Defrag tool in windows *just analyze, don't bother defragging yet*, and how does that analyzed drive look, lots of red? or medium amount mixed with large areas of blue?

    Things that will rob you of drive space and you won't be consious of it.. many small files in one directory.

    It often surprizes people when they find they have 12000 files in one directory, and that directory is slow to view, and that the "size on disk" far exceeds what they see for free space.

    Do you have a situation like that? Where perhaps in one directory you have several thousand files? (Internet Explorer will have a lot in temporary internet files but usually not so many as to deteriorate the system, hence why there are usually multiple hex named directories in some people's IE Temporay folders...)

    Anyway.. start back at the beginning.. look to the details.. if windows is not telling you there is a problem, but two tools on the net are, then there could be serveral reasons for the discrepancy, not the least of which is that those tools didn't read the drive information properly..

    Do you have any other "odd" behaviors that might suggest you have malware running... something that would try to hide the fact that a malware abuser may have stored content on your machine to offer for others?

    Do a spreadsheet to help analyze what you're seeing if needed..such as right click each folder off of the root of C (c:\) and record the size, size on disk, and conents (number of files and folders) that's probably 5 columns of information (Folder name, size, size on disk, number of files, number of folders)

    go with this information to try to find the full value of what you have ... if you still come up with what windows shows and not what those scanning tools find, present the information to the maker of those scanning tools, and ask them for why there would be a discrepancy...

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    OldER Mycroft

    And you've got him creating a five column spreadsheet to track down what he can't find?

    Treesize is all he needs:

    http://www.snapfiles.com/get/treesize.html

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    cyuno

    Hi Old Mycroft:

    Treesize says i have used 16GB on the C drive. The directory I am using has only 2GB in it.

    However, in the lower left corner it is reporting 1.8 GB ( a decrease since yesterday, even after moving a lot of files off the c drive to the external drive) of 49GB.

    So whatever 'unknown' is, treesize is not able to read it.

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    nentech

    They are found in C:\Documents and Settings

    You should have
    All Users
    Default User
    LocalService
    NetworkService

    You may have Guest and Administrator if you have used them
    You should have a folder for your own account
    If there are any others you cannot access that maybe the answer

    Try Deleting the RECYCLER folder use Shift+Delete to delete it

    After this I would give up
    Backup
    Format and reinstall everything

    Col

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    cyuno

    thanks nentech.

    Will do.

    Regards,
    cyuno

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    cyuno

    Thanks TG2. I will implement these.

    I have been having a BSOD ipnat.sys error every now an then.

    What I'v done is I've purchased an external drive and moved the files I use on the c drive to the new drive. I still don't know what's on the drive, but I have disabled system restore and have 2plus GB free.

    Its like driving a car with a 800 pound invisible gorilla in the back seat.

    Thank you all for your help.

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    OldER Mycroft

    I'd stake a bet there's nuthin' there...(sic).

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    danpat1_2000

    It was Jimmy "Dmwit" Carter who was attacked by the 7' Rabbit way back in the 70's. Last heard he is still running from it.

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    OldER Mycroft

    http://www.narsil.org/politics/carter/killer_rabbit.html

    Good Call!!!

    I'd forgotten all about that particular peanut farmer.

    Fascinating Factoid: The 'peanut' is not a nut at all - it is a Legume!!!


    <Edited for factoid>

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    ThumbsUp2

    So, what exaclty is your question? Help with what?

    Don't you think it's strange that the so called "scans" report there is 25GB of "unknown" and yet Windows says there's 25GB of free space (exactly the same amount) and that only 23GB is used? How can there be 25GB of "unknown" if only 23GB is used? If there was 23GB used plus 25GB unknown, your hard drive would be completely full and Windows wouldn't be able to start.

    Don't place all of your faith in those so called "scans". Do you understand that when files on your hard drive are "deleted", they're not really deleted? The space used by the file is simply marked as free to use again? Defrag doesn't change that. It just moves the files around. So, your so called "scans" may simply be seeing the fact that there is something IN that space and it can't tell you what it is because it's not really accessable. The bits are on, that's all.

    But, if you're concerned about space being used on your hard drive that you don't want to be used without your knowledge, I suggest you delete your temporary internet files. Visiting sites such as the ones you mentioned, which are riddled with pop-up ads, cookie dropers and who knows what else, means you've probably got a LOT of temporary files stored.

    Also, I find it odd that you seem to know all about VPN, hard drive scans, healthy drives, partitions, hard drive diagnostics, rootkits, defrag and restore points. Yet you don't know how to run Windows Explorer to take a look at things for yourself? And, you don't know about NOT opening up your entire hard drive, registry included, to web sites such as the ones you mentioned? How many of your passwords and bank accounts have now been compromised? Think about it.

    <edited typo>

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    cyuno

    no, the 25gb was taking up that space BEFORE I did the scanning. I have checked the hard drive after I have downloaded the scanning tools.

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    OldER Mycroft

    I quote:

    "I ran a scan on spacemonger and windirstat and discovered there is 25GB 'unknown' sitting on my c: drive taking up space"

    So you didn't know before you did the scan, did you?

    By the way, what IS the total size of your harddrive - you never said?

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    nentech

    But is most likely a corrupt directory or file tables

    Best thing to do
    Back up all your data
    Format the drive
    Then restore your data

    Col

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    pc21geek

    Disable hibernation and reboot. See if the 25 gigs is gone. Also how much page file space have you allocated?
    If hibernation is enabled, the file called hiberfil.sys will continue to grow. Check that and seee what you find. By default this is a protected windows file, so you willhave to unhide protected system files to see it. Just diable hibernation and see what happens.

    Regards,

    Kevin

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    nentech

    That is a very funny thought
    Please tell me where I can get a motherboard that needs that much HDD space
    I will start saving for it now
    Lets see 4 8gig ram modules will give me 32 gigs
    That should be just enough for the next version of windows
    May need to add more for the first service pack maybe 64 gig

    Yes it is possible but very unlikely
    Yes I do know some servers can handle that amount of memory

    But the size of the paging file should be looked at

    Col

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    cyuno

    Thanks to you both. I disabled hibernate and edited the registry to 0 0 on the page file but that 25GB is still sitting there...

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    nentech

    You have unhidden all files and folders including system files and folders

    Look at the C drive
    Set the folder view to details
    See if you can find any large files
    Use Ctrl A to select all files and folders
    Click to see their properties and size
    This will tell you if you have any large files

    You may want to check for compressed folders, which can make the size of the files look larger than the total space on the drive

    Also some files will not be included because of folder and/or security settings
    They take space but are not able to be accessed

    Col

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    0 Votes
    pc21geek

    I have seen hibernation files grow very large. It has nothing to do with a motherboard either. Clearly you do not work with alot of laptop users. What does ram have to do with hibernation files any way?
    I think you need to go back and learn about laptops.

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    0 Votes
    OldER Mycroft

    Unto the breach, etc etc.

    Dear pc21geek,

    I don't know what you are in the habit of taking for purposes of relaxation/enjoyment but it is affecting your squash.

    My laptop has no hibernation file, mainly because there are a lot more things I could be doing with the harddrive space. However I never managed to regain 25GB in the process.

    You asked "What does ram have to do with hibernation files any way?".

    For your information, the hibernation file is only designed to accommodate whatever data is in memory at time of activation. Therefore a 512MB laptop has a hibernation file of 511MB; a 1GB laptop has a hibernation file of 1023MB; etc etc ad nauseum.

    By it's very nature it is a snapshot of the memory immediately prior to shutdown, but it is not an entry in a photographic album! The file size does not grow with each snapshot.

    If it helps you, think of it as more of a disposable Polaroid photograph.


    <Edited for clarity>

    +
    0 Votes
    nentech

    Learn something about hibernation and paging
    I will not bother to repeat what Old Mycroft has said in his post

    http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=101&threadID=239286&messageID=2330612

    Get a clue

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    Sue T

    is it a hidden restore partition put there by the manufacturer? If you open your computer and look at the hard drive what size does the label say?

    +
    0 Votes
    ashij

    So.. Since you haven't accepted any answer (although I think ThumbsUp2 already answered your question in his first post), I have a lot of questions for you if don't mind..

    1. "I am using windows xp on the vpn"
    Q. are you connecting TO VPN from this machine or are you connecting to this machine FROM VPN

    2. "windows says i have a 48GB c drive. I ran a defrag report and the report says I am using 23GB and have 25GB free!"
    Q. Did you ever open "My Computer" and check how much disk space is being used and how much is free? From what windows is trying to tell you is that you have 25GB FREE and 23GB used, then 25+23 = whoa it's 48GB (exactly ThumbsUp2's point)

    So when the scanners that you ran tried to tell you that the space was "unknown", can we assume simply that it's NOT BEING USED ?

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    cyuno

    Hi Ashij. Only 2.48GB is free on the c drive. The capacity is 48GB. My actual usage of my files appears to be 4.5GB. This is when right clicking on the directory I work in under 'properties'. Programs take up apparently up 8GB after removing some programs that I have not used. Again this is after right clicking the program file under 'properties'. There are other miscellaneous files that I do not want to delete. I would say there is about 23GB that I can say are being used by me. I still cannot find out what this 'unknown' quantity is.

    I am connected to the vpn remotely.

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    0 Votes
    OldER Mycroft

    If you are comfortable accessing a VPN remotely you must be reasonably 'keyed-up' with the technology.

    However, it is only as a result of some sort of scan performed on a whim, that you are now panicking so much about lost space.

    "My actual usage of my files appears to be 4.5GB. This is when right clicking on the directory I work in under 'properties'."

    So, your files occupy less than 10% of total harddrive space - hardly a 'power user'.

    "Programs take up apparently up 8GB after removing some programs that I have not used. Again this is after right clicking the program file under 'properties'"

    Hardly what I would call 'heavy usage'.

    "There are other miscellaneous files that I do not want to delete. I would say there is about 23GB that I can say are being used by me."

    At least 2.5GB of these is your Operating System - so you definitely don't want to delete them!

    "I still cannot find out what this 'unknown' quantity is."

    Firstly, it is NOT UNKNOWN. It exists within your harddrive, and by your own definition: it is space that you have not touched nor have any need of, since you are already panicking and deleting files out of your occupied 8GB.

    I'm sorry but if you trully only have 2.48GB of free space left your system should be crippled and no mistake. It should not be operating at all if it is running with 5% free space.

    Lastly, I have to ask: Why did you right-click "on the directory I work in under 'properties'" - that will not give an accurate representation.

    Right-click on C: and have a look at properties from there. How much free space does your WHOLE harddrive have?

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    nentech

    It appears that everybody has been wasting his or her time trying to help this person

    Why you would include VPN in a question about lost disk space beats me

    My final suggestion to him

    Cyuno get someone who has I clue about IT to have a look at your PC

    What a waste of time

    +
    0 Votes
    cyuno

    I discovered the laptop is no longer supported by IT which is why I'm doing this.
    When they were going to tell me my laptop was not supported, I don't know.

    Everyone, even the caustic bunch, have been a great help.

    Thanks.

    +
    0 Votes
    TG2

    Performance of a system can be impacted by size and space, but 2.48 gigs free is still plenty of drive space for a useable computer.

    this user needs to figure out what is and is not occupying his drive space.

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    0 Votes
    OldER Mycroft

    And more importantly, 5% is still 0.5 of 10%.

    So - tell me oh wise sage:

    Where, in your logic, is 2.48GB sufficient space in which to manipulate a system base of 45GB that probably includes a contiguous file > 4.8GB ???


    <Edited for typo>

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    0 Votes
    TG2

    In your original message, you've stated that you did a scan of your computer using Spacemonger and Windirstat (programs). These programs are supposed to give you a representation on what is on your drive, where there are large chunks (files etc) so that you can better manage how much you have.

    If you right click your C drive, you should get a "used space" and a "free space" what does this information tell you?

    does it tell you (as you first posted) that you have a 48 gig drive, 23 gig used, and 25 gig free?

    What happens if you compare that to using the Defrag tool in windows *just analyze, don't bother defragging yet*, and how does that analyzed drive look, lots of red? or medium amount mixed with large areas of blue?

    Things that will rob you of drive space and you won't be consious of it.. many small files in one directory.

    It often surprizes people when they find they have 12000 files in one directory, and that directory is slow to view, and that the "size on disk" far exceeds what they see for free space.

    Do you have a situation like that? Where perhaps in one directory you have several thousand files? (Internet Explorer will have a lot in temporary internet files but usually not so many as to deteriorate the system, hence why there are usually multiple hex named directories in some people's IE Temporay folders...)

    Anyway.. start back at the beginning.. look to the details.. if windows is not telling you there is a problem, but two tools on the net are, then there could be serveral reasons for the discrepancy, not the least of which is that those tools didn't read the drive information properly..

    Do you have any other "odd" behaviors that might suggest you have malware running... something that would try to hide the fact that a malware abuser may have stored content on your machine to offer for others?

    Do a spreadsheet to help analyze what you're seeing if needed..such as right click each folder off of the root of C (c:\) and record the size, size on disk, and conents (number of files and folders) that's probably 5 columns of information (Folder name, size, size on disk, number of files, number of folders)

    go with this information to try to find the full value of what you have ... if you still come up with what windows shows and not what those scanning tools find, present the information to the maker of those scanning tools, and ask them for why there would be a discrepancy...

    +
    0 Votes
    OldER Mycroft

    And you've got him creating a five column spreadsheet to track down what he can't find?

    Treesize is all he needs:

    http://www.snapfiles.com/get/treesize.html

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    0 Votes
    cyuno

    Hi Old Mycroft:

    Treesize says i have used 16GB on the C drive. The directory I am using has only 2GB in it.

    However, in the lower left corner it is reporting 1.8 GB ( a decrease since yesterday, even after moving a lot of files off the c drive to the external drive) of 49GB.

    So whatever 'unknown' is, treesize is not able to read it.

    +
    0 Votes
    nentech

    They are found in C:\Documents and Settings

    You should have
    All Users
    Default User
    LocalService
    NetworkService

    You may have Guest and Administrator if you have used them
    You should have a folder for your own account
    If there are any others you cannot access that maybe the answer

    Try Deleting the RECYCLER folder use Shift+Delete to delete it

    After this I would give up
    Backup
    Format and reinstall everything

    Col

    +
    0 Votes
    cyuno

    thanks nentech.

    Will do.

    Regards,
    cyuno

    +
    0 Votes
    cyuno

    Thanks TG2. I will implement these.

    I have been having a BSOD ipnat.sys error every now an then.

    What I'v done is I've purchased an external drive and moved the files I use on the c drive to the new drive. I still don't know what's on the drive, but I have disabled system restore and have 2plus GB free.

    Its like driving a car with a 800 pound invisible gorilla in the back seat.

    Thank you all for your help.

    +
    0 Votes
    OldER Mycroft

    I'd stake a bet there's nuthin' there...(sic).

    +
    0 Votes
    danpat1_2000

    It was Jimmy "Dmwit" Carter who was attacked by the 7' Rabbit way back in the 70's. Last heard he is still running from it.

    +
    0 Votes
    OldER Mycroft

    http://www.narsil.org/politics/carter/killer_rabbit.html

    Good Call!!!

    I'd forgotten all about that particular peanut farmer.

    Fascinating Factoid: The 'peanut' is not a nut at all - it is a Legume!!!


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