Questions

8+ Core Processor Laptops on the Horizon?

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8+ Core Processor Laptops on the Horizon?

Bax2x
I'm in the market right now for a top of the new, top-of-the-line laptop. I heard about the many-multi cores in a information technology management class, Computer Applications in Business, last spring. It appears AMD is leading the way with I believe 8- and 12-core processors on the market right now. When can I expect to find these in say an HP from Best Buy or a Dell from Dell.com? I really don't want to upgrade until these become available. 8-core is really the smallest I want to go with an upgrade. When are 6s going to be available? I'm looking for time horizons in laptops of such hardware. Thanks!
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    OH Smeg

    i7 Intel CPU as used in the Gigabyte Range of NB's.

    http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3363#sp

    As for seeing these Specialized Units in places like Best Buy it's not going to happen as when this company has these a few years old they start to sell them to the crowds like HP and so on as their Top of the Line Units.

    In the mean time the Specialist Computer Sellers get to sell the High End NB's to high End users.

    Col

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    Bax2x

    What brand are those? I'm actually more interested in the AMD processors because it seems like they are further ahead in multi-core development. Am I wrong? I want as many cores as possible right now. So like 12 or 16 even.

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    Bax2x

    What brand meaning what computer brand on the GIGABYTE site.

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    Bax2x

    I prefer to get an HP because they have Beats by Dr. Dre audio. When can I expect to get this from them or how would I go about getting that hardware in this laptop also?

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    OH Smeg

    They are Gigabyte Brand

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    OH Smeg

    They are Gigabyte Brand

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    bye-cycle

    I would think that it will be a couple years or more before processors of that magnatude appear in laptops. Due largely to power requirements AND heat. If you really need a laptop with that kind of power take a look at Alienware by Dell. There are others out there, but they are the only one that comes to mind.

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    OH Smeg

    do not make Computers.

    They buy in from the Individual Makers and have the product badged for them and then resell them.

    The HP, Dell's, Gateway's of this world are the Resellers not Makers and as such they never produce the Leading Edge systems. They are always playing Catchup in the High Power Stakes because they do not make anything and even what they sell is made to a price not for outright Power.

    As for Gigabyte they are a Big Computer Parts Maker and as such they make their own High End NB's amoungst many other components.

    The Biggest NB Makers who have their Products sold by the Big Name Resellers are Gigabyte, Benq, MSI and Clevo. Currently none of these are using AMD CPU's so I can not point you at any place to even begin to look.

    Gigabyte is here

    http://www.gigabyte.com/products/list.aspx?s=46&p=175&v=2

    Benq is here

    http://ap.benq.com/products/product_line.cfm?plid=18

    Clevo is here

    http://www.clevo.com.tw/en/products/index.asp

    MSI is here

    http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=prodpage1&maincat_no=135

    These are the big NB Makers and their products can have any name on them depending on who agrees to buy them at the Asked for price.

    For instance the Clevo used to the the Top of the Range Dell units where as the MSI used to be top of the Range HP.

    Col

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    Bax2x

    What's "NB" stand for?

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    OH Smeg

    NB = Notebook

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    dogknees

    The 8 and 12 core AMD processors are server level. Among other things, they run very hot, so it's unlikely these particular CPUs will ever appear in a notebook. The current crop of desktop or notebook CPUs from AMD do not have as many cores as the Intel i7 family.

    One question that might help us help you is what sort of work are you planning on doing on this notebook that would need the sort of power you're looking for, The reason I ask is that I've got a new PC at home with a 4 core/8 thread cpu and 8 GB of RAM, and it takes pretty much anything I throw at it and never breaks a sweat. The only way I can push it to 100% on all threads is by running a cpu benchmark that is designed to do just that. Other than that, other issues are the limiting factor. Internet speed and disk speed tend to being the main culprits. Even the disk is rarely the problem as it will read or write well over 30 Megabytes per second continually. This equates to a full CD every 25 seconds or so.

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    Bax2x

    I usually run Chrome with at minimum about 40 tabs at at time. I need a computer that can handle the way I browse the Web with maximum effectiveness. I just want a top of the line model. I learned about the future advancement of multi-core technology in Computer Applications in Business that they will eventually have as many as 256 cores. Just want to get on that technology bandwagon as early as possible.

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    troubledmind

    My AMD 1090T has six cores running at 4.2 gHz solid. It is definitely current crop.

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    gearond

    I have had several experiences which suggest to me that all the OS and ESPECIALLY the application developers are a LONG WAY from using multicore efficiently. The best that you can hope for these days is that seperate apps use separate cores - and that's only about half the time. This is most true with small niche apps that don't get rebuilt often, only upgraded.

    My brother's cabinet CAD program is a perfect example. A VERY powerful AMD 6 core processor actually SLOWED it down. This is because the processors TOTAL processing power in a multicore part is higher than past gnereations. But they usually run slightly slower individually.

    One thing to take into account is the number of channels of IO that a processor has. That's why we chose the AMD for my brother's office. The network, video, DVD, Hard Drives, backup drives, USB ports, and normal memory IO have plenty of room to spare because it has so many IOs Ports.

    Always read Tom'sHardware.com(sp) before buying something. You'll learn a lot.

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    Bax2x

    Sorry to not be an IT professional, guys. But, all of you are so knowledgeable and helpful which is one great things about TechRepublic that brings me back again and again. What's an IO port? Just tell me all about them if you don't mind.

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    spdrcrtob

    First off not all programs are multithread capable. Meaning they don't work any better on a hyperthreaded multi core or real multi core CPU.

    But take for instance a real multithread capable program like Autodesk's AutoCAD (the O.G. of CAD), it doesn't slow down a quad core <2.0ghz and 2GB of RAM, for simple drawings or objects. It also depends on what you are doing. If you are throwing something in AutoCAD 2011 64bit for instance(assuming 64bit since you need a 64bit OS to run more then 4 cores), it runs without a problem in a system with a 1.8 Xeon with 2GB of memory, the AMD with the appropriate hardware matched will handle tons as well though, even if its a 1055T or a 1090T, etc . I'd suggest you look at the minimum requirements for that "Cabinet CAD Program" and look to see if you are full filling the "video card " requirements are first. Its not all about the processor, video card, etc. Certain CAD programs need more of a combination of parts to be effective. Example suggested hardware stats may be the way to go depending what you are doing and how much of your production is dependent on that machine or machines.

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    reggaethecat

    We recently bought an HP server with a 12-core AMD Opteron CPU, when we looked at the benchmarks it was actually a slower chip than the Intel 4-core CPU in the equivalent server.

    Check out http://www.cpubenchmark.net/

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    spdrcrtob

    Server CPU's are usually made for energy efficiency and you probably didn't get the models made for pure crunching. Just because it has more cores doesn't mean its faster, look at its rating compared to the desktop CPU or Server CPU you are comparing, more then likely apples and oranges not just in the number of cores, probably L2 L3 cache's, power settings for efficiency etc.

    Would have helped if you left some CPU models, otherwise this does no go getting referred to a benchmark site that with nothing to compare.

    Hmm so which Intel quad core (Xeon which one?) was he talking about? I'll just pick one.....and what 12core Opteron (guessing 6100 series, 6174?), I'll just pick one.

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    terry.sanderson

    The 8- and 12-core Opteron 6000-series processors that you speak of are server processors. These processors are built for up to quad socket support, feature technologies that would be relatively useless in a laptop, but most of all consume between 80 and 105 watts of power each (in their present 45nm incarnations). In contrast, Intel's hottest new modile chip release, the Core??? i7-2920XM Processor Extreme Edition, is a quad-core, eight thread CPU running at 2.50 GHz (with turbo speeds up to 3.5 GHz operating only a single core) and consumes only 55 watts maximum. Until technology moves to the 22 nm and 16 nm processes, we aren't going to see 8- or 12-core laptops.

    Which begs the question, what on earth could you need all these cores for? These quad-socket, multicore servers are designed to handle hundreds of simultaneous threads. Are you planning on selling timeshare services (boy, am I dating myself with that term!) on your laptop? You wouldn't believe the performance of the new high-end laptops...It's really more than anyone needs today.

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    Bax2x

    Can you talk about 22nm and 16nm; what this exactly means, which one is better than the other, what current laptops are, and anything else you wouldn't mind sharing or adding? I'm very detail-oriented so I like to know all there is to know about something, if you don't mind helping me out further.

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    Bax2x

    What's a quad socket port? Again, sorry for not being an IT professional.

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    Bax2x

    What are threads?

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    Slayer_

    Quad Socket...
    A plug with 4 holes, instead of, 3 (trisocket) 2, Duel socket) or 1 (Single socket)

    A thread is a term for a single instruction or set of instructions.
    So for example, when you click a button, a thread which is already running, sits and waits for input from the mouse, when it gets it, it checks the cursor location. Then messages all open Windows on screen.
    The button, on its own thread, receives this message, and checks if it got clicked on, if so it displays a quick animation, then depending on the code behind the button, might spawn another thread to do a process (Noticable between buttons that appear to stay "pushed in" while the computer works in the background, vs buttons that push in and pop out immediately. Staying "pushed in" means only one thread has been created, and therefore, the thread must finish before the button animation can complete)

    To view the current threads on your system, you can open up task manager.
    On the Processes tab, you should see a column titled "Threads". If not, click the View menu and choose select columns. And choose thread count.
    Another interesting one is handle count, this is the number if separate visual "window" objects being used.

    A fully multi CPU OS and software, will run each thread on its own processor/processing core. Thus maximizing performance, But each single thread can only run on a single processor.
    So if for example, you had 100 processors running at 100 MHZ each, that's a total of 10ghz of processor power. Sounds like a lot. But it would be really slow, likely a single processor running at 1ghz would royally kick its butt with todays software. Many programs are still single threaded, and would therefore not be able to take advantage of multiple cores.

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    zultekmilennia

    It seems to me that you just need a really fast notebook, and the brand that comes to mind is Alienware. The M17x tear aparts most competition, and then some. Just be mindful that there is always a tradeoff for these things.

    more powerful = consumes more power = not really suitable for on-the-road users

    These powerful laptops are meant as desktop replacement, intended to be plugged in most of the time. Depending on usage, the battery will only last a few hours.

    And just forget about these 8+ cores processors, they're gonna take a while to come out even on desktops, much less on laptops.

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    Input Output Ports, USB

    I agree, you will sh*t your pants when you play with a I7. Go and test one out at Best Buy.

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    Bax2x

    IO ports and USB ports are the same thing?

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    spdrcrtob

    And how is that relevant? Testing any of the machines at Best Buy is no comprison. Sometimes you don't get the better i7's or AMD's at Best Buy, not to mention those machine are standard OEM machine's. Goto Passmark's website and check out the benchmarks and put that against your wallet, yes you will see i7's at the top but can you afford an $800-1000 processor? Also those i'7s aren't really 12 core cPU's if you heard this, they only have 6 real cores, and hyperthreaded, or emulated. Intel did this joke of a trick when announcing they were first to make "dual core" CPU's, they were hyperthreaded as well and only being one technical core.

    8 core AMD Desktop CPU's should be on their way this summer and probably won't hit your "Bestbuy" desktops till back to school time.

    For those that build their systems and know better, you can see those at some retailers possibly by the summer.

    Laptoips, not till maybe next year or even after that, 6 cores haven't even made it to mainstream laptops, until you see that I wouldn't hold my breath because it might be a while after the 6 cores go mobile that we see the 8 cores go this route. Its only recent (past 2 quarters) quad cores hit the mainstream laptop market.

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    AlexNet0

    Please do not confuse the issue. IO ports and speaking of I/O in regards to the processor are two completely different things.

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    OH Smeg

    This is the width of the Tracks used in the DIE's of the CPU's.

    Basically the smaller/narrower the tracks the more you can fit into the CPU in the way of numbers of Transistors.

    So a 22 NM CPU has fewer Transistors possible in it than a 16 NM which used less space on the Silicon Wafer that is the basis of all Silicon Circuits.

    Col

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    0 Votes
    OH Smeg

    i7 Intel CPU as used in the Gigabyte Range of NB's.

    http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3363#sp

    As for seeing these Specialized Units in places like Best Buy it's not going to happen as when this company has these a few years old they start to sell them to the crowds like HP and so on as their Top of the Line Units.

    In the mean time the Specialist Computer Sellers get to sell the High End NB's to high End users.

    Col

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    Bax2x

    What brand are those? I'm actually more interested in the AMD processors because it seems like they are further ahead in multi-core development. Am I wrong? I want as many cores as possible right now. So like 12 or 16 even.

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    Bax2x

    What brand meaning what computer brand on the GIGABYTE site.

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    0 Votes
    Bax2x

    I prefer to get an HP because they have Beats by Dr. Dre audio. When can I expect to get this from them or how would I go about getting that hardware in this laptop also?

    +
    0 Votes
    OH Smeg

    They are Gigabyte Brand

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    0 Votes
    OH Smeg

    They are Gigabyte Brand

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    0 Votes
    bye-cycle

    I would think that it will be a couple years or more before processors of that magnatude appear in laptops. Due largely to power requirements AND heat. If you really need a laptop with that kind of power take a look at Alienware by Dell. There are others out there, but they are the only one that comes to mind.

    +
    0 Votes
    OH Smeg

    do not make Computers.

    They buy in from the Individual Makers and have the product badged for them and then resell them.

    The HP, Dell's, Gateway's of this world are the Resellers not Makers and as such they never produce the Leading Edge systems. They are always playing Catchup in the High Power Stakes because they do not make anything and even what they sell is made to a price not for outright Power.

    As for Gigabyte they are a Big Computer Parts Maker and as such they make their own High End NB's amoungst many other components.

    The Biggest NB Makers who have their Products sold by the Big Name Resellers are Gigabyte, Benq, MSI and Clevo. Currently none of these are using AMD CPU's so I can not point you at any place to even begin to look.

    Gigabyte is here

    http://www.gigabyte.com/products/list.aspx?s=46&p=175&v=2

    Benq is here

    http://ap.benq.com/products/product_line.cfm?plid=18

    Clevo is here

    http://www.clevo.com.tw/en/products/index.asp

    MSI is here

    http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=prodpage1&maincat_no=135

    These are the big NB Makers and their products can have any name on them depending on who agrees to buy them at the Asked for price.

    For instance the Clevo used to the the Top of the Range Dell units where as the MSI used to be top of the Range HP.

    Col

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    Bax2x

    What's "NB" stand for?

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    0 Votes
    OH Smeg

    NB = Notebook

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    0 Votes
    dogknees

    The 8 and 12 core AMD processors are server level. Among other things, they run very hot, so it's unlikely these particular CPUs will ever appear in a notebook. The current crop of desktop or notebook CPUs from AMD do not have as many cores as the Intel i7 family.

    One question that might help us help you is what sort of work are you planning on doing on this notebook that would need the sort of power you're looking for, The reason I ask is that I've got a new PC at home with a 4 core/8 thread cpu and 8 GB of RAM, and it takes pretty much anything I throw at it and never breaks a sweat. The only way I can push it to 100% on all threads is by running a cpu benchmark that is designed to do just that. Other than that, other issues are the limiting factor. Internet speed and disk speed tend to being the main culprits. Even the disk is rarely the problem as it will read or write well over 30 Megabytes per second continually. This equates to a full CD every 25 seconds or so.

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    0 Votes
    Bax2x

    I usually run Chrome with at minimum about 40 tabs at at time. I need a computer that can handle the way I browse the Web with maximum effectiveness. I just want a top of the line model. I learned about the future advancement of multi-core technology in Computer Applications in Business that they will eventually have as many as 256 cores. Just want to get on that technology bandwagon as early as possible.

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    troubledmind

    My AMD 1090T has six cores running at 4.2 gHz solid. It is definitely current crop.

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    gearond

    I have had several experiences which suggest to me that all the OS and ESPECIALLY the application developers are a LONG WAY from using multicore efficiently. The best that you can hope for these days is that seperate apps use separate cores - and that's only about half the time. This is most true with small niche apps that don't get rebuilt often, only upgraded.

    My brother's cabinet CAD program is a perfect example. A VERY powerful AMD 6 core processor actually SLOWED it down. This is because the processors TOTAL processing power in a multicore part is higher than past gnereations. But they usually run slightly slower individually.

    One thing to take into account is the number of channels of IO that a processor has. That's why we chose the AMD for my brother's office. The network, video, DVD, Hard Drives, backup drives, USB ports, and normal memory IO have plenty of room to spare because it has so many IOs Ports.

    Always read Tom'sHardware.com(sp) before buying something. You'll learn a lot.

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    0 Votes
    Bax2x

    Sorry to not be an IT professional, guys. But, all of you are so knowledgeable and helpful which is one great things about TechRepublic that brings me back again and again. What's an IO port? Just tell me all about them if you don't mind.

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    0 Votes
    spdrcrtob

    First off not all programs are multithread capable. Meaning they don't work any better on a hyperthreaded multi core or real multi core CPU.

    But take for instance a real multithread capable program like Autodesk's AutoCAD (the O.G. of CAD), it doesn't slow down a quad core <2.0ghz and 2GB of RAM, for simple drawings or objects. It also depends on what you are doing. If you are throwing something in AutoCAD 2011 64bit for instance(assuming 64bit since you need a 64bit OS to run more then 4 cores), it runs without a problem in a system with a 1.8 Xeon with 2GB of memory, the AMD with the appropriate hardware matched will handle tons as well though, even if its a 1055T or a 1090T, etc . I'd suggest you look at the minimum requirements for that "Cabinet CAD Program" and look to see if you are full filling the "video card " requirements are first. Its not all about the processor, video card, etc. Certain CAD programs need more of a combination of parts to be effective. Example suggested hardware stats may be the way to go depending what you are doing and how much of your production is dependent on that machine or machines.

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    0 Votes
    reggaethecat

    We recently bought an HP server with a 12-core AMD Opteron CPU, when we looked at the benchmarks it was actually a slower chip than the Intel 4-core CPU in the equivalent server.

    Check out http://www.cpubenchmark.net/

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    0 Votes
    spdrcrtob

    Server CPU's are usually made for energy efficiency and you probably didn't get the models made for pure crunching. Just because it has more cores doesn't mean its faster, look at its rating compared to the desktop CPU or Server CPU you are comparing, more then likely apples and oranges not just in the number of cores, probably L2 L3 cache's, power settings for efficiency etc.

    Would have helped if you left some CPU models, otherwise this does no go getting referred to a benchmark site that with nothing to compare.

    Hmm so which Intel quad core (Xeon which one?) was he talking about? I'll just pick one.....and what 12core Opteron (guessing 6100 series, 6174?), I'll just pick one.

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    terry.sanderson

    The 8- and 12-core Opteron 6000-series processors that you speak of are server processors. These processors are built for up to quad socket support, feature technologies that would be relatively useless in a laptop, but most of all consume between 80 and 105 watts of power each (in their present 45nm incarnations). In contrast, Intel's hottest new modile chip release, the Core??? i7-2920XM Processor Extreme Edition, is a quad-core, eight thread CPU running at 2.50 GHz (with turbo speeds up to 3.5 GHz operating only a single core) and consumes only 55 watts maximum. Until technology moves to the 22 nm and 16 nm processes, we aren't going to see 8- or 12-core laptops.

    Which begs the question, what on earth could you need all these cores for? These quad-socket, multicore servers are designed to handle hundreds of simultaneous threads. Are you planning on selling timeshare services (boy, am I dating myself with that term!) on your laptop? You wouldn't believe the performance of the new high-end laptops...It's really more than anyone needs today.

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    0 Votes
    Bax2x

    Can you talk about 22nm and 16nm; what this exactly means, which one is better than the other, what current laptops are, and anything else you wouldn't mind sharing or adding? I'm very detail-oriented so I like to know all there is to know about something, if you don't mind helping me out further.

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    0 Votes
    Bax2x

    What's a quad socket port? Again, sorry for not being an IT professional.

    +
    0 Votes
    Bax2x

    What are threads?

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    0 Votes
    Slayer_

    Quad Socket...
    A plug with 4 holes, instead of, 3 (trisocket) 2, Duel socket) or 1 (Single socket)

    A thread is a term for a single instruction or set of instructions.
    So for example, when you click a button, a thread which is already running, sits and waits for input from the mouse, when it gets it, it checks the cursor location. Then messages all open Windows on screen.
    The button, on its own thread, receives this message, and checks if it got clicked on, if so it displays a quick animation, then depending on the code behind the button, might spawn another thread to do a process (Noticable between buttons that appear to stay "pushed in" while the computer works in the background, vs buttons that push in and pop out immediately. Staying "pushed in" means only one thread has been created, and therefore, the thread must finish before the button animation can complete)

    To view the current threads on your system, you can open up task manager.
    On the Processes tab, you should see a column titled "Threads". If not, click the View menu and choose select columns. And choose thread count.
    Another interesting one is handle count, this is the number if separate visual "window" objects being used.

    A fully multi CPU OS and software, will run each thread on its own processor/processing core. Thus maximizing performance, But each single thread can only run on a single processor.
    So if for example, you had 100 processors running at 100 MHZ each, that's a total of 10ghz of processor power. Sounds like a lot. But it would be really slow, likely a single processor running at 1ghz would royally kick its butt with todays software. Many programs are still single threaded, and would therefore not be able to take advantage of multiple cores.

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    0 Votes
    zultekmilennia

    It seems to me that you just need a really fast notebook, and the brand that comes to mind is Alienware. The M17x tear aparts most competition, and then some. Just be mindful that there is always a tradeoff for these things.

    more powerful = consumes more power = not really suitable for on-the-road users

    These powerful laptops are meant as desktop replacement, intended to be plugged in most of the time. Depending on usage, the battery will only last a few hours.

    And just forget about these 8+ cores processors, they're gonna take a while to come out even on desktops, much less on laptops.

    +
    0 Votes

    Input Output Ports, USB

    I agree, you will sh*t your pants when you play with a I7. Go and test one out at Best Buy.

    +
    0 Votes
    Bax2x

    IO ports and USB ports are the same thing?

    +
    0 Votes
    spdrcrtob

    And how is that relevant? Testing any of the machines at Best Buy is no comprison. Sometimes you don't get the better i7's or AMD's at Best Buy, not to mention those machine are standard OEM machine's. Goto Passmark's website and check out the benchmarks and put that against your wallet, yes you will see i7's at the top but can you afford an $800-1000 processor? Also those i'7s aren't really 12 core cPU's if you heard this, they only have 6 real cores, and hyperthreaded, or emulated. Intel did this joke of a trick when announcing they were first to make "dual core" CPU's, they were hyperthreaded as well and only being one technical core.

    8 core AMD Desktop CPU's should be on their way this summer and probably won't hit your "Bestbuy" desktops till back to school time.

    For those that build their systems and know better, you can see those at some retailers possibly by the summer.

    Laptoips, not till maybe next year or even after that, 6 cores haven't even made it to mainstream laptops, until you see that I wouldn't hold my breath because it might be a while after the 6 cores go mobile that we see the 8 cores go this route. Its only recent (past 2 quarters) quad cores hit the mainstream laptop market.

    +
    0 Votes
    AlexNet0

    Please do not confuse the issue. IO ports and speaking of I/O in regards to the processor are two completely different things.

    +
    0 Votes
    OH Smeg

    This is the width of the Tracks used in the DIE's of the CPU's.

    Basically the smaller/narrower the tracks the more you can fit into the CPU in the way of numbers of Transistors.

    So a 22 NM CPU has fewer Transistors possible in it than a 16 NM which used less space on the Silicon Wafer that is the basis of all Silicon Circuits.

    Col