Questions

Have you used SATA or USB Tape Backups successfully?

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Have you used SATA or USB Tape Backups successfully?

jdclyde
Hi Everyone,

Have need for a tape backup, the server does not have a SCSI controller and do not have the budget to add one.

I need a low cost backup solution, that includes looking at both the price of the drive as well as the price of the media for it. We currently have SCSI DAT72 on another system that is about to be phased out, so leaning hard to stay with DAT72 just so we don't have to invest in new tapes for a bit.

I have seen several tape backups listed online in the 500 to 700 range, some by HP looked good to me.

My question is, has anyone had any personal success or failure using either SATA or USB drives?

Both fit my budget (which is almost nothing). Not a lot being backed up and done at night, so I don't care about the speed of the backup. Just want one that will be dependable.

The server is a low end HP running Windows Server8.

Thanks in advance for your input.
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    oldbaritone

    You mentioned that you don't have the budget to invest in a SCSI controller? As long as there is an available slot in the server, there are good SCSI controllers available for less than $100.

    There's even an HP DAT72 tape backup New/Refurb-In-Box on eBay cheap. It's the USB version. I've used USB external drives a couple times, and my only complaint was speed. That was mostly an issue for restore; backup was overnight, "set it and forget it" and speed didn't matter. It was done by morning. Restore requests were somewhat of a pain, but again, just start it and walk away. But the SCSI drives tended to run noticeably faster.

    Also, if the old server is being phased out, can you scavenge the DAT72 from the old server into the new server? That would seem to be the lowest-cost option.

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    jdclyde

    It has been there for a while. It also won't be phased out as a server until the end of the project, so would need that server to continue to perform backups for at least another week beyond when I need this one up and going.

    They are prepared to bite the bullet for around 600, and I am not willing to put my name/reputation on the line with used equipment just to save them a few hundred.

    Thanks for the feedback! :)

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    1 Votes

    We've tried both USB and eSATA drives, we've had reliability issues. Weird stuff, like a server crashing or locking up when removing or connecting the drive. That seemed to be server dependent, so it could have been bad drivers or hardware. But it definitely burned us! Once we found a hardware combo that worked, it seems to be OK.

    Edit: in reference to HARD DRIVES, not TAPE DRIVES.

    J.Ja

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    CG IT

    Like Justin, ran into the server detecting the USB drive and the backup software using it with scheduled, automatic backups.

    but, I still use the USB device as the backup source [use 2 identical devices]. I simply manually run the backups. One goes off site the other one stays onsite and we swap em once a week.

    It's an inexpensive alternative to tape if you can do manual backups.

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    jdclyde

    and I will not be the one taking care of this once it is setup, so it has to be as automated as possible.

    Thanks.

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    jdclyde

    This will be the one and only server when I am done, those are just the two interfaces I have available without having to buy a controller card.

    I want tape so one can be off site in case of fire or theft.

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    0 Votes

    Yeah, I know what you mean. We swap the drives to take them off site. Every time I look at tape, it is so much more expensive than disc on a per-TB basis once you get to the big numbers, it seems like. But swapping external drives has a headache factor too, in that you need to make sure it gets the same drive letter, is formatted right, has the correct permissions on it, etc.

    If you won't be dealing with it once it is set up, paying more for tape now will probably save them in headaches down the road.

    J.Ja

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    tbmay

    ...I do the external drive thing. A trusted employee takes them off-site. They're rsnc'ed nightly.

    I remember working with tapes for years very well. I remember a worn out tape, corrupted data, and unhappy folks.

    Also, with the quantities of data we're dealing with now, the external drive just seems to be the better alternative.

    You do have to coach the folks on procedures do they don't damage the drives though. That is a drawback.

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    1 Votes
    seanferd

    Probably not directly relevant, but current:
    http://techrepublic.com.com/5206-1009-0.html?forumID=101&threadID=339065&start=0&tag=content;leftCol

    Maybe he has experience with SATA tape drives.

    I'm limited to quarter inch cassette drives that connect to a floppy controller.

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    santeewelding

    That you cannot help with the more pressing issues of JD, his sons, and the wider universe of employment, self-worth, and how it all shakes out.

    Darts, too.

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    jdclyde

    but not relevant to what I am doing. That was about media that would be stored for long periods. I would just have a weeks worth of tapes being swapped out daily and taken off site

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    OH Smeg

    He's naiver used much in the way of External TAPE drives and other than one a very long time ago that worked off a Com Port.

    You couldn't format tapes on that thing but it was portable and the people who used it seemed to like it a lot.

    The only thing I've ever seen with External USB or eSATA Drives is the fact that they get hot really quickly and die quite fast. But none of those has ever been a Tape Drive so I'm not sure.

    But provided that it works USB may be too slow just depending on how big the backup actually is. eSATA may be better if that is an option.

    Col

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    jdclyde

    and I really don't trust the users to be carrying around a removable hard drive.

    Putting in a comprehensive backup solution a year ago like I wanted was not important, but since our unbacked up email system died last week, it is suddenly a justified expense. Not saying I told them so, but I did.

    Side note, I want this to be as simple of a solution as possible. I need it to "just work" easily and reliably.

    I just wasn't sure if I wanted the USB or SATA. The drive will never be disconnected as I am also going to be consolidating all of their computer needs from 4 old servers down to one new server. They will be in a MUCH better position to maintain this if/after I am gone with the changes I am going to be putting in place.

    I think I am going to go with the internal SATA DAT72.

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    OH Smeg

    At a Government Department here they delegated the Backup Job to a Night Time Security Guard who had no idea of anything to do with computers. He was told to bung the tape in press these 2 buttons and then he could walk away which is exactly what he did.

    6 Months latter when the server HDD's died and all of their Data went with it they discovered that for the past 6 months the Tape Drive was broken and only ran for a minute or two. Long enough for the Security Guard to walk away and not know even if he had of known any better.

    The one thing to look at though with External Tapes is the ability to Format the Tape in the External Drive.

    I don't have any experience with these things other than 1 instance years ago and I found that because you where unable to format the Tape it wasn't a really good solution.

    The drive would mess up the Tape's Formatting and then you have to replace the otherwise perfectly good tape. Of course if you got tapes with the Wrong Format or unformatted they where useless with that drive as well.

    Col

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    jdclyde

    internal always costs less than external, and I have zero need for portability.

    But as for drives going back, that is another reason I don't want to just get a scsi controller and move the existing one over.

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    OH Smeg

    I have a little experience with Tape Drives.

    HP which covers a wide range of Drive Makes, make a part way decent drive but they don't repair them they replace them while Under Guarantee and when they are no longer UG they expect you to buy new.

    Works OK provided that you don't need backward compatibility as I've had several customers who use HP tape drives that needed data off Tapes written to by the Old Drives. Their newly replaced drives didn't read the tapes even though they where the same form factor.

    These days there are a multitude of SATA Drives that are available and they all seem to work well. The Internal USB ones that I've seen use 2 USB Ports to increase Data Speed but can be a bit flaky when used with Windows but seem to work OK when used on a Nix based system.

    My personal preference these days is for the Tandenberg Drives but they are sort of pricey and more high end probably too expensive for what your company wants at the moment. Of course when they loose Data and can not recover it they see them as cheap.

    Sony has some decent low end Drives as well and then there are the IBM drives used in Tape Libraries which are way overpriced but very good. I love the things they just are unlikable but by the same token you pay for them to begin with.

    Just go with what you can afford or have budgeted and make sure that they are bolted to a metal frame to disperse as much heat as possible. It doesn't hurt having 2 drives if they are low end drives that way you can recover off the second drive in the file cabinet when the first one fails. Great if the replacement drive that is supplied doesn't read the old tapes which is very common.

    I just flog 2 drives every time that I need to and keep one as a backup so that when the Drive fails you can still have access to the Data. It's much cheaper than needing to send the Tape to a Data Recovery Specialist . I've needed to do that on more than 1 occasion and the companies see just how cheap a second drive is in comparison.

    Just remember to get a Cleaning Tape and use it regularly it's very important with these drives.

    Col

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    seanferd

    So very dumb.

    :^0

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    CG IT

    that's been my experience and seems as well as everyone elses. No one knows if there's something on the tape until emergency time.

    Hopefully your customer realizes that someone's gotta look at the data on the tape. That's where Justin's USB HDDs are more appealing. you can actually look into the drive and check files and folders. Might require some prelim steps to make sure the backup software finds the right drive, but atleast someone can look at the data easily enough to verify it's there.

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    1 Votes
    CG IT

    with DAT72.

    note: the thing about backups is, checking to make sure there's stuff actually on the tape that's usable. Many believe since a backup is run the data is safe, and we've all heard the stories, or are actually the IT guy who goes in when a server crashes, everyone smiling thinking they got backups, only to find out, there's nothing usable on the tape.

    There's always the cloud but ya know, I just don't trust "the cloud" vendors.

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    0 Votes
    Who Am I Really

    simply present the fact that they are reducing their TCO by reducing the setup from 4 servers down to one
    and thus can afford a higher quality tape setup

    just the power savings alone would make up the difference in a very short time frame
    from the cheap to higher end tape drive and tapes

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    0 Votes
    rkuhn

    I bought 17 320 GB drives (1 yearly, 4 weekly and 12 monthly) for offsite backup (roughly 200 GB a week) and use a 750 GB and a 1 TB for onsite backups.

    I have found restores to be much quicker than tape (obviously) and all backups run just fine and within reasonable time frames.

    Microsoft Exchange is a tad slow but I think it's my Exchange server and not the drives.

    Each 320 GB drive at the time was $59.99 and we use Symantec Backup Exec. Been doing this for several years now and not a single drive has failed yet.

    BTW, I also noticed someone said heat could be an issue with externals. Not here. I use Seagate drives that spin down when not in use and don't get hot and don't suck down a lot of electric.

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    jdclyde

    Went with a Quantum SATA drive, DAT72.

    It came with Symantec backup exec. To activate, they say go to their website, but of course the link is dead. (nice job Quantum, way to be on the ball!).

    Go to the main page and able to register the drive, but nothing to activate the software. (nice job Quantum, way to be on the ball!).

    Call their "support" and the fool who answered thought it was OBVIOUS that it was a different link to symantec (even though the printed instructions THEY provided say otherwise)
    (nice job Quantum, way to be on the ball!).

    After filling out the form and waiting for about 20 minutes, the activation code FINALLY comes in. Of course it isn't in a form that I can just copy/paste in, so I have to type it in. (I guess I can blame Symantec for this one)

    Have the server running a Full backup to make sure everything is working properly, and will move all services over to the server tomorrow if everything goes well.

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    seanferd

    Too bad with <i>wrong instructions</i> you were given. Probably not the first time you have encountered that, right? :^0

    (I will never forget my experience with MS support making things worse for a user, which I had to straighten out. And then pretty much hound them for their errors. Well, they asked for feedback...)

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    OH Smeg

    But then again the Destructions for use where probably written before a Change which threw out all of the instructions with the Baby.

    Lets know how things get on with this one JD.

    Col

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    SOLARFINDER

    I was following your post and I have to say that I have definitely fallen into similar situations as you have, both in private contracts and employers alike. Budgets seem to get smaller and smaller until there's a problem, and then the wallets come out.

    The hard part is to push the I told you so's into a more proactive approach, as to avoid the pinching pain of the scathing critics on the projects. Over the years, I have managed to push the clients agenda only so far, until I come across a scenario where business continuity is in jeopardy, and then it is their choice.

    I have always liked SATA connections over USB when in a pinch, as an external SATA card can be used, or if you have an additional slot, you can put a 10$ expansion esata port in. That way, the drive that you have connected is viewed by the OS as perpetually connected, and thus is more reliable when you use windows backup, symantec, or some third party software.

    Either way, I was curious on the stability of the hardware/software combo that you used. Congrats, and good luck on future projects.

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    1 Votes

    We've tried both USB and eSATA drives, we've had reliability issues. Weird stuff, like a server crashing or locking up when removing or connecting the drive. That seemed to be server dependent, so it could have been bad drivers or hardware. But it definitely burned us! Once we found a hardware combo that worked, it seems to be OK.

    Edit: in reference to HARD DRIVES, not TAPE DRIVES.

    J.Ja

    +
    1 Votes
    seanferd

    Probably not directly relevant, but current:
    http://techrepublic.com.com/5206-1009-0.html?forumID=101&threadID=339065&start=0&tag=content;leftCol

    Maybe he has experience with SATA tape drives.

    I'm limited to quarter inch cassette drives that connect to a floppy controller.

    +
    1 Votes
    CG IT

    with DAT72.

    note: the thing about backups is, checking to make sure there's stuff actually on the tape that's usable. Many believe since a backup is run the data is safe, and we've all heard the stories, or are actually the IT guy who goes in when a server crashes, everyone smiling thinking they got backups, only to find out, there's nothing usable on the tape.

    There's always the cloud but ya know, I just don't trust "the cloud" vendors.

    +
    0 Votes
    Who Am I Really

    simply present the fact that they are reducing their TCO by reducing the setup from 4 servers down to one
    and thus can afford a higher quality tape setup

    just the power savings alone would make up the difference in a very short time frame
    from the cheap to higher end tape drive and tapes

    +
    0 Votes
    rkuhn

    I bought 17 320 GB drives (1 yearly, 4 weekly and 12 monthly) for offsite backup (roughly 200 GB a week) and use a 750 GB and a 1 TB for onsite backups.

    I have found restores to be much quicker than tape (obviously) and all backups run just fine and within reasonable time frames.

    Microsoft Exchange is a tad slow but I think it's my Exchange server and not the drives.

    Each 320 GB drive at the time was $59.99 and we use Symantec Backup Exec. Been doing this for several years now and not a single drive has failed yet.

    BTW, I also noticed someone said heat could be an issue with externals. Not here. I use Seagate drives that spin down when not in use and don't get hot and don't suck down a lot of electric.

    +
    0 Votes
    jdclyde

    Went with a Quantum SATA drive, DAT72.

    It came with Symantec backup exec. To activate, they say go to their website, but of course the link is dead. (nice job Quantum, way to be on the ball!).

    Go to the main page and able to register the drive, but nothing to activate the software. (nice job Quantum, way to be on the ball!).

    Call their "support" and the fool who answered thought it was OBVIOUS that it was a different link to symantec (even though the printed instructions THEY provided say otherwise)
    (nice job Quantum, way to be on the ball!).

    After filling out the form and waiting for about 20 minutes, the activation code FINALLY comes in. Of course it isn't in a form that I can just copy/paste in, so I have to type it in. (I guess I can blame Symantec for this one)

    Have the server running a Full backup to make sure everything is working properly, and will move all services over to the server tomorrow if everything goes well.

    +
    0 Votes
    SOLARFINDER

    I was following your post and I have to say that I have definitely fallen into similar situations as you have, both in private contracts and employers alike. Budgets seem to get smaller and smaller until there's a problem, and then the wallets come out.

    The hard part is to push the I told you so's into a more proactive approach, as to avoid the pinching pain of the scathing critics on the projects. Over the years, I have managed to push the clients agenda only so far, until I come across a scenario where business continuity is in jeopardy, and then it is their choice.

    I have always liked SATA connections over USB when in a pinch, as an external SATA card can be used, or if you have an additional slot, you can put a 10$ expansion esata port in. That way, the drive that you have connected is viewed by the OS as perpetually connected, and thus is more reliable when you use windows backup, symantec, or some third party software.

    Either way, I was curious on the stability of the hardware/software combo that you used. Congrats, and good luck on future projects.

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    0 Votes
    oldbaritone

    You mentioned that you don't have the budget to invest in a SCSI controller? As long as there is an available slot in the server, there are good SCSI controllers available for less than $100.

    There's even an HP DAT72 tape backup New/Refurb-In-Box on eBay cheap. It's the USB version. I've used USB external drives a couple times, and my only complaint was speed. That was mostly an issue for restore; backup was overnight, "set it and forget it" and speed didn't matter. It was done by morning. Restore requests were somewhat of a pain, but again, just start it and walk away. But the SCSI drives tended to run noticeably faster.

    Also, if the old server is being phased out, can you scavenge the DAT72 from the old server into the new server? That would seem to be the lowest-cost option.

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    0 Votes
    jdclyde

    It has been there for a while. It also won't be phased out as a server until the end of the project, so would need that server to continue to perform backups for at least another week beyond when I need this one up and going.

    They are prepared to bite the bullet for around 600, and I am not willing to put my name/reputation on the line with used equipment just to save them a few hundred.

    Thanks for the feedback! :)

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    1 Votes

    We've tried both USB and eSATA drives, we've had reliability issues. Weird stuff, like a server crashing or locking up when removing or connecting the drive. That seemed to be server dependent, so it could have been bad drivers or hardware. But it definitely burned us! Once we found a hardware combo that worked, it seems to be OK.

    Edit: in reference to HARD DRIVES, not TAPE DRIVES.

    J.Ja

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    0 Votes
    CG IT

    Like Justin, ran into the server detecting the USB drive and the backup software using it with scheduled, automatic backups.

    but, I still use the USB device as the backup source [use 2 identical devices]. I simply manually run the backups. One goes off site the other one stays onsite and we swap em once a week.

    It's an inexpensive alternative to tape if you can do manual backups.

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    jdclyde

    and I will not be the one taking care of this once it is setup, so it has to be as automated as possible.

    Thanks.

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    jdclyde

    This will be the one and only server when I am done, those are just the two interfaces I have available without having to buy a controller card.

    I want tape so one can be off site in case of fire or theft.

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    0 Votes

    Yeah, I know what you mean. We swap the drives to take them off site. Every time I look at tape, it is so much more expensive than disc on a per-TB basis once you get to the big numbers, it seems like. But swapping external drives has a headache factor too, in that you need to make sure it gets the same drive letter, is formatted right, has the correct permissions on it, etc.

    If you won't be dealing with it once it is set up, paying more for tape now will probably save them in headaches down the road.

    J.Ja

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    tbmay

    ...I do the external drive thing. A trusted employee takes them off-site. They're rsnc'ed nightly.

    I remember working with tapes for years very well. I remember a worn out tape, corrupted data, and unhappy folks.

    Also, with the quantities of data we're dealing with now, the external drive just seems to be the better alternative.

    You do have to coach the folks on procedures do they don't damage the drives though. That is a drawback.

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    1 Votes
    seanferd

    Probably not directly relevant, but current:
    http://techrepublic.com.com/5206-1009-0.html?forumID=101&threadID=339065&start=0&tag=content;leftCol

    Maybe he has experience with SATA tape drives.

    I'm limited to quarter inch cassette drives that connect to a floppy controller.

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    0 Votes
    santeewelding

    That you cannot help with the more pressing issues of JD, his sons, and the wider universe of employment, self-worth, and how it all shakes out.

    Darts, too.

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    0 Votes
    jdclyde

    but not relevant to what I am doing. That was about media that would be stored for long periods. I would just have a weeks worth of tapes being swapped out daily and taken off site

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    OH Smeg

    He's naiver used much in the way of External TAPE drives and other than one a very long time ago that worked off a Com Port.

    You couldn't format tapes on that thing but it was portable and the people who used it seemed to like it a lot.

    The only thing I've ever seen with External USB or eSATA Drives is the fact that they get hot really quickly and die quite fast. But none of those has ever been a Tape Drive so I'm not sure.

    But provided that it works USB may be too slow just depending on how big the backup actually is. eSATA may be better if that is an option.

    Col

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    jdclyde

    and I really don't trust the users to be carrying around a removable hard drive.

    Putting in a comprehensive backup solution a year ago like I wanted was not important, but since our unbacked up email system died last week, it is suddenly a justified expense. Not saying I told them so, but I did.

    Side note, I want this to be as simple of a solution as possible. I need it to "just work" easily and reliably.

    I just wasn't sure if I wanted the USB or SATA. The drive will never be disconnected as I am also going to be consolidating all of their computer needs from 4 old servers down to one new server. They will be in a MUCH better position to maintain this if/after I am gone with the changes I am going to be putting in place.

    I think I am going to go with the internal SATA DAT72.

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    0 Votes
    OH Smeg

    At a Government Department here they delegated the Backup Job to a Night Time Security Guard who had no idea of anything to do with computers. He was told to bung the tape in press these 2 buttons and then he could walk away which is exactly what he did.

    6 Months latter when the server HDD's died and all of their Data went with it they discovered that for the past 6 months the Tape Drive was broken and only ran for a minute or two. Long enough for the Security Guard to walk away and not know even if he had of known any better.

    The one thing to look at though with External Tapes is the ability to Format the Tape in the External Drive.

    I don't have any experience with these things other than 1 instance years ago and I found that because you where unable to format the Tape it wasn't a really good solution.

    The drive would mess up the Tape's Formatting and then you have to replace the otherwise perfectly good tape. Of course if you got tapes with the Wrong Format or unformatted they where useless with that drive as well.

    Col

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    jdclyde

    internal always costs less than external, and I have zero need for portability.

    But as for drives going back, that is another reason I don't want to just get a scsi controller and move the existing one over.

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    0 Votes
    OH Smeg

    I have a little experience with Tape Drives.

    HP which covers a wide range of Drive Makes, make a part way decent drive but they don't repair them they replace them while Under Guarantee and when they are no longer UG they expect you to buy new.

    Works OK provided that you don't need backward compatibility as I've had several customers who use HP tape drives that needed data off Tapes written to by the Old Drives. Their newly replaced drives didn't read the tapes even though they where the same form factor.

    These days there are a multitude of SATA Drives that are available and they all seem to work well. The Internal USB ones that I've seen use 2 USB Ports to increase Data Speed but can be a bit flaky when used with Windows but seem to work OK when used on a Nix based system.

    My personal preference these days is for the Tandenberg Drives but they are sort of pricey and more high end probably too expensive for what your company wants at the moment. Of course when they loose Data and can not recover it they see them as cheap.

    Sony has some decent low end Drives as well and then there are the IBM drives used in Tape Libraries which are way overpriced but very good. I love the things they just are unlikable but by the same token you pay for them to begin with.

    Just go with what you can afford or have budgeted and make sure that they are bolted to a metal frame to disperse as much heat as possible. It doesn't hurt having 2 drives if they are low end drives that way you can recover off the second drive in the file cabinet when the first one fails. Great if the replacement drive that is supplied doesn't read the old tapes which is very common.

    I just flog 2 drives every time that I need to and keep one as a backup so that when the Drive fails you can still have access to the Data. It's much cheaper than needing to send the Tape to a Data Recovery Specialist . I've needed to do that on more than 1 occasion and the companies see just how cheap a second drive is in comparison.

    Just remember to get a Cleaning Tape and use it regularly it's very important with these drives.

    Col

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    seanferd

    So very dumb.

    :^0

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    0 Votes
    CG IT

    that's been my experience and seems as well as everyone elses. No one knows if there's something on the tape until emergency time.

    Hopefully your customer realizes that someone's gotta look at the data on the tape. That's where Justin's USB HDDs are more appealing. you can actually look into the drive and check files and folders. Might require some prelim steps to make sure the backup software finds the right drive, but atleast someone can look at the data easily enough to verify it's there.

    +
    1 Votes
    CG IT

    with DAT72.

    note: the thing about backups is, checking to make sure there's stuff actually on the tape that's usable. Many believe since a backup is run the data is safe, and we've all heard the stories, or are actually the IT guy who goes in when a server crashes, everyone smiling thinking they got backups, only to find out, there's nothing usable on the tape.

    There's always the cloud but ya know, I just don't trust "the cloud" vendors.

    +
    0 Votes
    Who Am I Really

    simply present the fact that they are reducing their TCO by reducing the setup from 4 servers down to one
    and thus can afford a higher quality tape setup

    just the power savings alone would make up the difference in a very short time frame
    from the cheap to higher end tape drive and tapes

    +
    0 Votes
    rkuhn

    I bought 17 320 GB drives (1 yearly, 4 weekly and 12 monthly) for offsite backup (roughly 200 GB a week) and use a 750 GB and a 1 TB for onsite backups.

    I have found restores to be much quicker than tape (obviously) and all backups run just fine and within reasonable time frames.

    Microsoft Exchange is a tad slow but I think it's my Exchange server and not the drives.

    Each 320 GB drive at the time was $59.99 and we use Symantec Backup Exec. Been doing this for several years now and not a single drive has failed yet.

    BTW, I also noticed someone said heat could be an issue with externals. Not here. I use Seagate drives that spin down when not in use and don't get hot and don't suck down a lot of electric.

    +
    0 Votes
    jdclyde

    Went with a Quantum SATA drive, DAT72.

    It came with Symantec backup exec. To activate, they say go to their website, but of course the link is dead. (nice job Quantum, way to be on the ball!).

    Go to the main page and able to register the drive, but nothing to activate the software. (nice job Quantum, way to be on the ball!).

    Call their "support" and the fool who answered thought it was OBVIOUS that it was a different link to symantec (even though the printed instructions THEY provided say otherwise)
    (nice job Quantum, way to be on the ball!).

    After filling out the form and waiting for about 20 minutes, the activation code FINALLY comes in. Of course it isn't in a form that I can just copy/paste in, so I have to type it in. (I guess I can blame Symantec for this one)

    Have the server running a Full backup to make sure everything is working properly, and will move all services over to the server tomorrow if everything goes well.

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    seanferd

    Too bad with <i>wrong instructions</i> you were given. Probably not the first time you have encountered that, right? :^0

    (I will never forget my experience with MS support making things worse for a user, which I had to straighten out. And then pretty much hound them for their errors. Well, they asked for feedback...)

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    OH Smeg

    But then again the Destructions for use where probably written before a Change which threw out all of the instructions with the Baby.

    Lets know how things get on with this one JD.

    Col

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    0 Votes
    SOLARFINDER

    I was following your post and I have to say that I have definitely fallen into similar situations as you have, both in private contracts and employers alike. Budgets seem to get smaller and smaller until there's a problem, and then the wallets come out.

    The hard part is to push the I told you so's into a more proactive approach, as to avoid the pinching pain of the scathing critics on the projects. Over the years, I have managed to push the clients agenda only so far, until I come across a scenario where business continuity is in jeopardy, and then it is their choice.

    I have always liked SATA connections over USB when in a pinch, as an external SATA card can be used, or if you have an additional slot, you can put a 10$ expansion esata port in. That way, the drive that you have connected is viewed by the OS as perpetually connected, and thus is more reliable when you use windows backup, symantec, or some third party software.

    Either way, I was curious on the stability of the hardware/software combo that you used. Congrats, and good luck on future projects.

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    1 Votes

    We've tried both USB and eSATA drives, we've had reliability issues. Weird stuff, like a server crashing or locking up when removing or connecting the drive. That seemed to be server dependent, so it could have been bad drivers or hardware. But it definitely burned us! Once we found a hardware combo that worked, it seems to be OK.

    Edit: in reference to HARD DRIVES, not TAPE DRIVES.

    J.Ja

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    1 Votes
    seanferd

    Probably not directly relevant, but current:
    http://techrepublic.com.com/5206-1009-0.html?forumID=101&threadID=339065&start=0&tag=content;leftCol

    Maybe he has experience with SATA tape drives.

    I'm limited to quarter inch cassette drives that connect to a floppy controller.

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    1 Votes
    CG IT

    with DAT72.

    note: the thing about backups is, checking to make sure there's stuff actually on the tape that's usable. Many believe since a backup is run the data is safe, and we've all heard the stories, or are actually the IT guy who goes in when a server crashes, everyone smiling thinking they got backups, only to find out, there's nothing usable on the tape.

    There's always the cloud but ya know, I just don't trust "the cloud" vendors.

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    0 Votes
    Who Am I Really

    simply present the fact that they are reducing their TCO by reducing the setup from 4 servers down to one
    and thus can afford a higher quality tape setup

    just the power savings alone would make up the difference in a very short time frame
    from the cheap to higher end tape drive and tapes

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    0 Votes
    rkuhn

    I bought 17 320 GB drives (1 yearly, 4 weekly and 12 monthly) for offsite backup (roughly 200 GB a week) and use a 750 GB and a 1 TB for onsite backups.

    I have found restores to be much quicker than tape (obviously) and all backups run just fine and within reasonable time frames.

    Microsoft Exchange is a tad slow but I think it's my Exchange server and not the drives.

    Each 320 GB drive at the time was $59.99 and we use Symantec Backup Exec. Been doing this for several years now and not a single drive has failed yet.

    BTW, I also noticed someone said heat could be an issue with externals. Not here. I use Seagate drives that spin down when not in use and don't get hot and don't suck down a lot of electric.

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    jdclyde

    Went with a Quantum SATA drive, DAT72.

    It came with Symantec backup exec. To activate, they say go to their website, but of course the link is dead. (nice job Quantum, way to be on the ball!).

    Go to the main page and able to register the drive, but nothing to activate the software. (nice job Quantum, way to be on the ball!).

    Call their "support" and the fool who answered thought it was OBVIOUS that it was a different link to symantec (even though the printed instructions THEY provided say otherwise)
    (nice job Quantum, way to be on the ball!).

    After filling out the form and waiting for about 20 minutes, the activation code FINALLY comes in. Of course it isn't in a form that I can just copy/paste in, so I have to type it in. (I guess I can blame Symantec for this one)

    Have the server running a Full backup to make sure everything is working properly, and will move all services over to the server tomorrow if everything goes well.

    +
    0 Votes
    SOLARFINDER

    I was following your post and I have to say that I have definitely fallen into similar situations as you have, both in private contracts and employers alike. Budgets seem to get smaller and smaller until there's a problem, and then the wallets come out.

    The hard part is to push the I told you so's into a more proactive approach, as to avoid the pinching pain of the scathing critics on the projects. Over the years, I have managed to push the clients agenda only so far, until I come across a scenario where business continuity is in jeopardy, and then it is their choice.

    I have always liked SATA connections over USB when in a pinch, as an external SATA card can be used, or if you have an additional slot, you can put a 10$ expansion esata port in. That way, the drive that you have connected is viewed by the OS as perpetually connected, and thus is more reliable when you use windows backup, symantec, or some third party software.

    Either way, I was curious on the stability of the hardware/software combo that you used. Congrats, and good luck on future projects.