Questions

How to Dual Boot - Vista 32 bit and 64 bit

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How to Dual Boot - Vista 32 bit and 64 bit

tcavadias Staff
Yeah I know Google it. and I did, but wanted to get your advice as well.

I have ordered a new computer to replace my dying Dell that is now 6 yrs old. It will come with Vista Home Premium 64 bit installed. I bought a copy of Vista Home Premium 32 bit so I can dual boot. Several of my programs at the moment only use 32 bit drivers, so I need that version as well. Why did I not get 32 bit when I ordered? Well I figured if I was going to have to pay for a new computer I'd prefer the 64 bit over the 32 bit.

Anyway the new computer will come with two new hard drives - 300 gb each (for a total of 600 gb) - my plan is to put the 32 bit version on that second hard drive. This computer will also come with 6 gb of ram installed, so shouldn't have an issue in either of them departments.

So my question would be - what is the best/simplest way to do this with the least amount of problems? Googling shows several different ways and I've never dual booted before, having never had the need.

Thanks everyone,

-Tammy :-)
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    OH Smeg

    You need to keep the different OS's on different partitions so if you load the second OS the 32 Bit version on the second HDD it will work and you will be given the option of which OS you want to start when you boot the computer after the Dell Splash Screen.

    Now for the possible problems.

    Here it all depends on how Dell configure this computer if they actually load any software on the second HDD you will need to reload the Primary OS as well if you have bought the 32 Bit Version from Dell as they do not sell full OEM Copies just Slipstreamed Recovery Disc's so they need to format the drive before you can install the OS.

    Even if you have a M$ Supplied OEM CD it's still better to keep all of the 64 Bit Software on it's own drive away from the 32 Bit OS and Associated Software as there will be problems that arise.

    If Dell have configured any sort of RAID Array you'll have to reinstall both OS so do this before you do anything else and remember unless you have a license of Office 2007 remove it completely Do Not us it as you will have formatting issues with older versions of Office when it comes time to use your primary Office Application. Of course if you plan on using something like Open Office, Word Perfect Office because they can edit PDF Files you don't need to worry about 2007 anyway.

    Drop me a PM if you need any assistance.

    Col
    edited because I'm an Idiot.

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    tcavadias Staff

    as the Googling I did said it would be huh? None of the tips I found said anything about raid (and yes it will come configured that way)

    This is actually the basic configuration for the new one:

    XPS 630, Intel Core2 processorE8500 (3.16 GHz,1333FSB) w/Dual Core Technology and 6MB cache

    6GB DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz

    nVidia GeForce 9800GX2 1024MB

    Serial ATA RAID 0 With Dual 300GB SATA HD(10KRPM),Western Digital,VR150

    Microsoft Windows Vista SP1 Home Premium 64-bit Edition English


    and of course MS Office 2007

    Sound card will be the SB XFI Plantium

    ___

    The Vista 32 bit is a retail copy not an OEM copy from Dell. I wonder if XP would be easier to dual boot instead of Vista 32 bit? or the same issues?

    Any chance of there being a software program out there that would do all the leg work for me???? (wishful thinking huh?)

    Dual booting and Raid - two new items I have yet to experience - but hey I'm always up for learning new things.

    Thanks OH Smeg :-)

    -Tammy :-)

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    IC-IT

    Your programs do the require 32 bit Drivers or run in a 32 bit OS?
    If the OS then they will generally run in the 64bit OS at 32bit.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

    If there is a problem, turn off 64 bit;

    http://www.tipandtrick.net/2008/how-to-open-and-run-32-bit-command-prompt-in-64-bit-x64-windows/

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    OH Smeg

    Well in that case Tammy you only have 1 HDD as a RAID combines both Drives and only shows one Drive available in Explorer.

    If it comes that way you'll have a Stripped Array so you get better performance as both drives only hold part of the Data to improve speed.

    If you want to use the 2 drives separately you'll need to reinstall the 64 Bit OS without the RAID which may not be the easiest thing to do as the Recovery DVD will have the RAID Drivers and setup slipstreamed on it and want to install it. You may need to remove one of the drives to get the system to load if it will at all.

    I'm not sure about the Dell RAID as I seem to remember that it's not actually a RAID 0 Array it is only described that way to make it easier to sell the idea. Dell has this description on their Web Site but I seem to remember that they do it differently.

    http://tinyurl.com/48pyxr

    Just another thought any 32 Bit Windows can not use 4 GIG of RAM so 6 will most defiantly be over kill but work a treat with the 64 Bit version of Vista.

    Now for your other questions. :^0

    I wonder if XP would be easier to dual boot instead of Vista 32 bit? or the same issues?

    Sorry same issues but XP works better than Vista and supports more hardware so it might be a better option depending on your hardware include external things like Printers and so on here.

    Any chance of there being a software program out there that would do all the leg work for me???? (wishful thinking huh?)

    Sorry No there isn't and even if there was such a beast I wouldn't trust it as far as I can kick the M$ building as unassembling a RAID 0 Array and removing the RAID Driver from the Windows Kernel isn't something that is possible or desirable. Well with a software solution at least.

    On the Plus Side installing the OEM 32 Bit version of Vista will be a breeze after you have reinstalled the 64 Bit version without the RAID. Though you will need to download the 32 Bit Drivers for this hardware as the 64 Bit ones will not actually work on a 32 Bit OS. To do this open Device Manager and make a list of all the hardware and then look for 32 Bit Drivers for it. Start off on the Dell Web Site they should have the 32 Bit Drivers already there so you can download them easily. If they don't have em all try Drivers Guide for the required drivers that Dell doesn't list.

    http://tinyurl.com/khyvv

    Just remember to save them to a different location as when you delete the RAID all of the Data will be lost. But on the up side Dell provides several different Install Disc's there is the Primary OS and the Media Center or something like that which needs to be installed first to set the basic Partitions on the HDD's But you may not want to use this as it is only a recovery option which you can do without.

    Then you will have a Driver Disc which contains some system drivers and all of the Utilities and another Driver Disc and then the Office Install Disc.

    The OS install Disc is a DVD and all the rest should be CD's so they will not take long to install but none the less you should install one driver at a time and not allow the system to use the complete Driver Install Utility as they do produce problems with incompatible drivers conflicting with each other on the install.

    Unless you are a glutton for punishment it may be easier to just fit another HDD to install the 32 Bit Version to.

    OH also be prepared to need to download up to a GIG of Dell Drivers and Utilities for the 32 Bit Version of either XP or Vista so if you know the model that you purchased or are otherwise getting you could start download loading the drivers and Utilities now for the 32 Bit. You'll need to run the EXE on the system after you get it and they will install to a folder on the C Drive called dell where they will run from.

    Also when you install the 32 Bit OS Do Not Enable the Auto Update Option on the screen before Windows Opens for the First time as you will have problems with the Sound Driver which needs to be installed before you connect tot he Windows Update Server.

    Having second thought yet? ?:|

    OH and very importantly remember to remove the COA for the plastic Covering on the 32 Bit OEM Disc you can not install this without that 25 Digit Alpha Numeric Key. It should be stuck onto the case for use latter but none the less I always make a record of the Product Key as I find the COA very hard to read when it's on a case. Maybe that's just me and my 21 + year old eyes failing but I have seen numerous cases with OEM Product where the plastic covering is just ripped off and tossed and the COA gets lost. The COA is a Sticker on the outside of the OEM Product which you peal off supposedly before opening the product.

    Col

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    tcavadias Staff

    but it does leave me with another question...

    I just like to see all my angles...

    Since the 64 bit is what I'll be after long term but need 32 bit short term... Since I have a windows 32 bit retail copy and can get 32 bit drivers for everything... What if I just wiped out the HD(s) totally and reinstalled with Vista 32 bit only..then when I didn't need the 32 bit anymore... format it again, but this time using the 64 bit I get from Dell? I do have a 4 yr warranty on this including accidental, so I know I can get their assistance later if putting back the 64 bit goes horribly wrong.

    Simpler method? Too hard? Too screwy of an idea?

    The Third HD is an option.. would an external work?

    -Tammy :-)

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    tcavadias Staff

    Is it possible to remove the raid? Say by reformatting... and then using the two hard drives as such - one for each OS?

    I know a million questions...

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    Tammy do you realize that there is an Edit Function available?

    Yes you can install the 32 Bit Version of the OS without voiding the warranty but Dell may not be much help when you have a software problem. Though to be perfectly honest that aren't much help anyway so maybe there would be no difference. Their First Option is to always **** away the existing install and rebuild the system with the supplied Recovery Disc. Hardly helpful if you have a software conflict as as soon as you reinstall the offending bits it will be back again.

    But the Problem here is that the 32 Bit doesn't come slipstreamed for a RAID installation so you would need to set this up if you wanted to use a RAID.

    The 64 Bit Version from Dell should come with a pre-configured RAID on the Install Disc and should install this by default which could be hard to work around if it's not on a separate Install Disc.

    A External HDD wouldn't be my first choice as they are more vulnerable to damage from Heat and getting knocked about. In a External Case every HDD runs hotter than it would in a computer case as it just lacks the surface area of metal in the case to act as a Heat Sink and drag heat away from the HDD. It's also far less stable in an external case then in a Computer Case as you are very unlikely to bump a Computer Case and knock it off wherever it is positioned but a External HDD case is far easier to knock around. Remember you have Kids around you so you need to Child Proof the unit. Maybe your Hubby could explain this to you. :^0 :^0

    The Raid is actually setup in the Pre Windows Configuration so just by installing the OS again and not configuring the RAID you could install Both OS's easily but the problem here is that one is on a Dell Recovery Disc not a M$ Install Disc and doesn't follow the rules. Besides formatting the Drives would get rid of all the files which are 50% of the complete Data so it's a Good Idea Anyway. But Technically it's not necessary to reformat but it is highly desirable.

    If this was my system I would probably do a Wipe & Reload as I just don't like all of the junk that comes with prebuilt systems all of the Dell Utilities slow things down a lot and I don't like them but that's just me others may like it all.

    I use Wipe & Zap from IBM but that's no longer available and while not as good as Boot & Nuke it's faster and I'm not patient. I only use Boot & Nuke when I need to wipe a drive totally and that isn't often.

    Anyway I hope that is of some assistance and isn't tooooooooooooooo confusing.

    Col

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    tcavadias Staff

    While they are teenaged boys.. they don't come into my office. I have an upstairs FROG that is roughly 20x18 with a U shaped desk.. that is 6 feet on the left... 13 feet across (where I sit) and 9 feet on the right - this gives me plenty of room to spread things out (as I hate things all cluttered together when I'm working) and not have things bumping or getting knocked about - so that might not be an issue for an external.

    So it looks like I'm down to three main choices:

    - wiping everything out and using 32 bit only for now (later when the time comes wiping again and going back to 64 bit with Dells help on getting the raid reset back up - I don't see the point in that (raid) for the 32 bit for now) After all even when I'm not working - I'm working if something comes up while I'm playing, so I don't want to have to switch OS's in the middle.

    - Going external - a viable option if this would allow the main OS to remain - then once I no longer needed the 32 bit, its just a simple matter of uninstalling anything that needs uninstalling and removing the external. Saving the hassle of reinstalling the 64 bit further down the road.

    - Going virtual? But as you mentioned it might be too clunky.

    So that really probably would leave with with two choices - External or wiping and going soley 32 bit for now.

    -Tammy :-)

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    Jacky Howe

    a removable drive kit. There would be a lot less mucking around.
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    OH Smeg

    Even the Active Cooled ones the drives in them run very hot and as this will hold a 32 Bit OS which is most likely to be used more at the moment it wouldn't be my preferred option.

    I've seen too many drives fitted like this fail for my liking. If it was a little use it would be ideal but not for Full Time Use.

    The external ones are just way too slow and downright dangerous for a job like this.

    Besides Tammy is a Blondie, Harley owner do I need to say any more?

    Col

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    Jacky Howe

    that that one was aluminium.

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    Jacky Howe

    I just thought that it would be a cheap investment to try out both Operating Systems with less configuration. I have always found that it doesn't take long when I Dual Boot to tend to use only one OS and the other rarely if ever gets used. It ends up as a wasted Drive that could be used for Storage. When the decision is made as to what OS is to be used the Hard Drives could be moved into the PC.

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    tcavadias Staff

    Just asked about that... If I went the 3rd HD route

    Course if it comes down to it I can go Win XP sp2.. since I haven't opened the Vista 32 bit yet, I can still take it back and exchange it - as long as which ever one I use is 32 bit - which is actually what I'd be using mainly - short term, eventually 64 drivers will come along for what I need and then 64 bit will become the main one (which is also why I went 64 bit since I was thinking long term and not short term)

    -Tammy :-)

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    Jacky Howe

    all of that Memory with XP, you would have to drop it to 3 or 2GB. Vista32 will run on that amount of memory and up to 4GB, but if you want to use the full amount then go with Vista64. I like your idea of useing the Vista32 for awhile at least until they get Vista64 sorted out. Who knows you may be one of the lucky ones and get a good install of Vista and not have any problems.

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    tcavadias Staff

    .. the 6 gbs was a free upgrade from 4 gbs So who was I to complain :-D

    I am starting to lean toward maybe the best way is just to wipe everything and go straight Vista 32 or XP.. Heck the worse that can happen is I call up Dell and say my computer is messed up and they have to fix it (by putting Vista 64 back ) - that's what I paid for.

    Might actually be the simplest method for now - since I really won't use the 64 bit - much if at all. My laptop has the 64 bit, so I can use that if need be when I want to use 64 bit.

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    With a 32 Bit OS but it will be wasted and not used though when 64 Bit Systems do start to be used things will be different. So the RAM isn't actually wasted if you look at things that way it will be used eventually when 64 Bit Systems are used but it's been a long time coming I can remember AMD giving away 64 Bit XP with their then new 64 Bit CPU's and they are yet to get used.


    I regularly fit 4 GIG to systems running 32 Bit OS's here but that is because of Dual Channel RAM and I don't want the units running in Single Channel Mode as it's slower so a bit of RAM not being used is nothing any 32 Bit Windows system will use 3.2 GIG so the remaining bit more than makes up for things and keeps the system in Dual Channel Mode. After all it's not as if a Gig of RAM is expensive these days. Besides you know that this way there will not be any timing issues with the RAM so I would keep it on the M'Board.

    But then again maybe that's just me.

    Col

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    Jacky Howe

    I would go with XP Pro 32 bit. Leave Vista until a few more bugs have been sorted out. That is my opinion as we are still BETA testing it as far as I am concerned.

    Mind you they must be working on something as the last Vista install that I did downloaded 160MB of Updates and then the next day it decided that it wanted to install SP1.

    Vista 32 bit at the moment is using 16.8GB of space and I haven't added any software as yet. Only WinRar and Vista Boot Pro. PageFile is 1.29GB.

    MB not GB

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    OH Smeg

    I don't know how well it works running that way and as Vista is a Hardware Hog running the 32 Bit Version Virtually on a 64 Bit Version I'm not sure just how well that would run.

    I don't know anyone that's tried it either so I have no idea of the actual results. I know that I gave up using Virtual Desktops because they drove me crazy and where too slow for me but it may be OK for Tammy here. I just don't know on this one.

    Col

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    Jacky Howe

    Yep it worked OK but I didn't have enough RAM or CPU power so it was a bit slow. Ran all the basic tests with it and they all worked. That would be a good environment to run it in as if you stuff up you just don't save the state as you close out of the VM. Its probably the safest way to run it and keep it running.

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    OH Smeg

    Do you want to guide Tammy Through it or me?

    I'm certainly no Vista expert here as I don't even like it all that much.

    Col

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    Jacky Howe

    easier if we all work together. Between us we should be able to get Tammy up and running. I will supply the Steps for the installation and we will see how it goes from there. I would love to be able to give you a copy of the first Vista Beta to have a look at. What an experience it was trying to use it and find your way around.
    <br><br>
    There is no way that I would part with any money for it as it still as far as I am concerned not ready yet, it still has bugs even with SP1. We all got a free copy of Vista Business Retail for Beta testing.
    <br><br>

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    tcavadias Staff

    We can give this a whirl first and if it doesn't work out well - then we have two other options - external or wiping.

    Even though the new one is due to arrive on a weds (they say the 18th but could be later since I had it customized with different options - then the orginal buy it like this option) - but regardless of when it arrives it will be either a week-end or a evening hours (my evening hours that is) when I start the process - so I'll be doing it around normal working hours - though my working hours are really all the time in most cases spammers don't take vacations or days off

    I much appreciate all the assistance - should be fun learning something new. Now if I could make the wireless connection in my laptop behave all would be well. :-)

    -Tammy :-)

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    The Scummy One

    Why not turn it into a Blog or Article?
    Maybe a 2 parter, part 1, setup a Vista VM, part 2, using Vista in a VM

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    tcavadias Staff

    How to install Vista 32 on a VM that even a Blonde can do it

    -Tammy :-)

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    Jacky Howe

    Just be sure to read up on the documentation that I have given the links to and it should be a breeze.


    You could also use VMWare but I am not familiar with it. Anyway I like to keep M$ with M$.

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    OH Smeg

    But by the same token VM Ware works a treat and doesn't come in different flavors for 32 & 64 Bit Operation.

    Where I have a problem is with Vista as I don't run it here and although I have all of the M$ Beta Versions of it and have tested it as well as a Volume License of Ultimate 32 Bit I haven't tried running a Virtual Machine on it with anything that approaches a Domestic System. It worked a treat on a dual Quad Core Xeon with 24 GIG of RAM but this isn't something that I expect to be available in many places and exceeds Vista's requirements by a very large amount. But it was a Nice System.

    Now Tammy the RAID is not for Redundancy here it's for SPEED so ideally if you end up choosing to wipe and just go with a 32 Bit OS it would be a good idea to reestablish the RAID so that you get a fair comparison between the two different OS's. As after using the 64 Bit Version on the RAID and then using a 32 Bit without this Performance Enhancement it will appear to be slower considerably slower.

    It's like using a IDE Drive to do the same thing that a Integrated SCSI Controller does with 15K SCSI Drives to Boot from there is a massive speed difference though to be totally fair I've never used SATA Drives in a RAID as the Server Boards that I use have always had the SCSI Controller Built in and well it's faster though a lot more expensive.

    On reflection I think that setting up a VM will be the way to go here and there are a couple of things here that you need to know as Vista comes on a DVD making a ISO Image maybe a bit hard as ISO Images are not supposed to encase the 4.7 GIG of a DVD well at least that's outside the Standard you'll need to use UDF/ISO to make the Image. Depending on what you have available there are many possibilities I've used Nero quite often to convert a Install Disc to a ISO Image but I do understand it's not everyone's Cup of Tea to do it that way. I've used Magic ISO previously and that's about it for making ISO's I haven't needed any other tools so I can not recommend any though I think that PT has recommended a Free Utility for this he may have some first hand experience here which I sadly lack.

    OH and Tammy Teenage kids are easy it's when they get to the early to mid 20's or older where they Know It All and do as they like because you know nothing that life gets difficult. Now will you take my 35 year old son and his wife off my hands? Both will drive you insane in the way that they manage to destroy OS's.

    Looks like I'll have to do some ground work and setup a Dual Core system to have a play with Vissy.

    Col

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    tcavadias Staff

    .. they already do believe they know it all - told em - well since you know it all its time to get a job, start living in the real world while you still do

    No I don't want no 35 yr old - when these last ones finally move out - I'm moving someplace they can't find me

    Got this all printed out and Jacky's too for my bath time reading material...

    Nice explaination on the raid - that makes sense since I'm more familiar IDE/SCSI

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    When SWMBO two moved out we turned one bedroom into a Junk Room and the other one got used as a Lab and for 15 years they couldn't move back in to bulge off us.

    Then we moved to a smaller house set it up the way we wanted it and have absolutely no room and SWMBO son moved back in with his wife and are now living on the couches in the living room when they can be bothered to stay at home and not go out to play.

    Anyway the RAID in this case could be IDE as it is just a way to improve Data Transfer from the HDD to the user for use. I'm not sure just how much faster it will be though as modern SATA Drives with 16 MEG of Cache are pretty fast and the read write times are very low so I'm not sure just how much of an improvement in speed it will be perhaps others here know this as I've never bothered to try one. I just don't see it as much of an advantage and the costs are pretty high for what it is as you need 2 HDD to do the job of 1. But in this case you should have the Full Capacity of Both Drives so you will probably be getting the best of both worlds or maybe that should read the beast of both worlds.

    Anyway I'll have a think on this and see what I have lying around here to play with.

    Enjoy your bath and hopefully there will be no interruptions. :0

    Col

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    Jacky Howe

    I was away from home working and staying on a property, well we knew that the work would run out and when it did I started heading home. I was hitch hiking back in those days and managed to get a lift to Queanbeyan which meant that I had another 15 miles to go to get home to Bungendore. It was getting close to sundown as I walked past my Great Grand Mothers house and decided that I had better say hello. Well we had a cuppa tea and a chin wag and I said that "I had better be going as it's hard to get a lift at night". She then said "You only have to go next door", "Your Mum and Dad moved in yesterday".

    Boy was I glad that I stopped in to say G'day.

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    tcavadias Staff

    Rather than hide from the kids... move in next door to them and torture them for the rest of their lives!

    -Tammy :-)

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    w2ktechman

    at least you wont need to hide out!

    And then your torture plan will really work, instead of a week party, its ever-after :^0

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    w2ktechman

    You can load Vista 64 for the main system, and use a virtual machine for Vista 32 bit. You have plenty of RAM and disk space, and can use both OS's at the same time (if needed).

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    tcavadias Staff

    but would that word with the Raid - based on what Col was mentioning?

    And if it did, then we are looking at another new thing I haven't done - I know the concept - but have never done it myself.

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    As the Virtual OS doesn't actually control the Hardware it only controls the Main OS interface tot he Hardware. So it would run quite happily on the RAID.

    The down side is that the Second or Virtual OS is slower and as this would be your Primary Work Platform I'm not sure that you'll be happy with the speed of it. It's also a bit more complicated installing software onto the Virtual Computer but nothing really nasty is involved. Running the 32 Bit OS virtually would work as the 64 Bit one which controls the actual Hardware will use 100% of the available Hardwares capacity but as it's your Primary OS which you will need to work in I have my doubts about just how satisfactory it will be.

    Still I suppose you can suck it and see if you are happy with it. After all, all that will happen is it will be too slow or finicky for your needs and you need to **** away the install of both OS's after backing up your Data. M$'s Virtual PC is available to download here

    http://tinyurl.com/3ccjz8
    If you want to take a look see you'll need the 64 Bit Version for the new PC but can test the 32 Bit Version they both work the same way I've been told at least as I don't use it VM Ware has a better product but it's not the simplest thing to use if you have never used a Virtual PC previously. VM Wares offering is available here if you want to have a look see.

    http://tinyurl.com/67q6zy

    Col

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    The Scummy One

    but not much. You should have plenty of resources to use it like this. And since it is the easiest way, and you can use both at the same time, this would be my preference to tell you.

    Personally, I have used swappable (IDE) drives with several bays (like Jacky mentions) and is my preferred method. However this poses new issues like having a good place to put the other drives/OS's, always needing to swap, etc..

    However doing a true dual boot has advantages as well, however it also has the problem of setting it up properly.

    Since the VM costs nothing, and is easy to setup using Dell's default 64-bit install, I say this would be a good start. If it doesnt work out for you, then you still have the other options. As a bonus, you wont have to reboot to switch to the other OS...

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    OnTheRopes

    I've done it before, at boot go into the BIOS to choose what drive to use to boot. If you have a 3rd drive you could leave your two current drives be, so your System Restore should work fine. Just install Vista 32 bit on the third drive by shutting off the other two in the BIOS when you boot. I believe that there are instructions here at TR on how to make a dual-boot system with Vista 32 and XP. Im not sure if you'll have to pull the 'extra' RAM or not or if Windows just won't recognize it.<br><br>
    Of course I'm just a lowly pc hobbyist but adding a third drive is what I'd do. The newer Dell cases for desktops are huge and have enough space for it. <br><br>
    I'd also get a monster external USB drive and use Ghost on a regular basis too. I've heard that Acronis True Image is as good or better than Ghost but I have no experience with it. If you had a Ghost image of your old XP drive you could just place it on the new third drive and then install Vista 32 for a dual boot.<br><br>
    Now, if I can ever afford it, when it becomes time to replace my Dell I'm going to go with an Apple MacPro. With additonal software like Parallels: http://www.parallels.com/en/ you can easily run any Windows software on a Mac that you want and you'd have the extra speed benefit of having a native 64-bit OS. There's also the added immeasurable geek factor but who cares about geek stuff? Too late now I guess but I just had to point that out or I'd be stifling myself.

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    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm?referrer=google&type=GoogleAdWordsContent
    This will give you a boot window of which to choose from before booting.

    Please post back if you have any more problems or questions.
    If this info is useful, please mark it helpful. Thanks

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    tcavadias Staff

    I've saved that to favorites to give it a read through.

    -Tammy :-)

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    Please post back if you have any more problems or questions.

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    Jacky Howe

    These are the steps that I have taken to install Vista to a Virtual PC. I don't think that I have left anything out but if I have someone will correct me.
    <br><br>
    Read up on the documentation that comes with the software.
    <br><br>
    Virtual PC 2007 Release Notes
    <br><br>
    http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/4/c/44ccd131-67fb-4224-a96e-193be1765b43/relnotes.htm
    <br><br>
    Download the full version of Microsoft Virtual PC 2007
    <br><br>
    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=04D26402-3199-48A3-AFA2-2DC0B40A73B6&displaylang=en
    <br><br>
    <br><br>
    Create your New Virtual Machine by clicking New. Click Next, select Create a virtual machine, click Next. Now you will give it a Name and Location. In XP the Default destination is My Documents, My Virtual Machines, I keep them in there. You can browse to the Location that you require and select OK. Click Next, select Operating system Windows Vista.
    <br><br>
    <br><br>
    Default hardware selection:
    <br><br>
    Memory: It will show the Memory that has been allocated.
    <br><br>
    Virtual disk: 65,536 MB will be allocated.
    <br><br>
    Sound: Vista sound compatible.
    <br><br>
    Click Next and now you will be able to adjust the RAM or use the default allocation. Click Next and you will have a choice to use an existing or a new Virtual hard disk as you shouldn't have an existing disk select New. Click Next and you will will be given a chance to change the name and location, it can be left as it is. You will also have the choice to change the Hard Disk size. The Maximum size is 130,557 MB, make your adjustment if requied and click Next and click Finish.
    <br><br>
    <br><br>
    Create an ISO Image from your Vista DVD.
    <br><br>
    This is the hard part as far as I am concerned as I always use Magic ISO but there are free ones out there that should be able to do it I just can't recommend one. Someone else will be able to weigh in on this.
    <br><br>
    http://www.shivaranjan.com/2006/09/26/how-to-create-iso-file-from-folders-and-cd-dvd/
    <br><br>
    http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=245
    <br><br>
    http://www.simplehelp.net/2007/09/26/how-to-create-an-iso-file-in-windows/
    <br><br>
    <br><br>
    Once you have created the ISO open the Virtual PC Console, Highlight the Operating System and click Start.
    <br><br>
    Click on CD and select Capture ISO Image. Navigate to your new Vista ISO and select it.
    <br><br>
    Follow the prompts for the install and put in your Key.
    <br><br>
    Leave everything connected to your PC including the Internet Access and Vista should automatically find it.
    <br><br>
    Install your Antivirus when you are up and running.
    <br><br>
    <br><br>
    I was lucky when I installed it on my PC as Vista found everything and I had no need to install any Device drivers.
    <br><br>

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    tcavadias Staff

    Got this saved and printed out - I'll read this all over and download what I need onto disc beforehand.

    May sound weird to some - but I'm actually looking forward to trying this - as its something new and challenges my brain :-)

    -Tammy :-)

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    Jacky Howe

    and you are in the right place if you need any assistance.

    They reckon a change is as good as a holiday and the old grey matter needs a bit of exercise every now and then.

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    Jacky Howe

    How I managed to Dual Boot Vista and Vista by stuffing up.
    <br><br>
    I installed Vista on seperate Hard Drives by only having one Drive connected at a time.
    <br><br>
    Connected the Drives with the Vista Drive that I wanted as the Main Drive on Slot0 and the second Drive on Slot1.
    <br><br>
    Started up the PC and installed VistaBootPRO v.3.3
    <br><br>
    This is where I was interrupted and missed a couple of steps when I got back to it. Alright I simply forgot, I think it comes with age.
    <br><br>
    I then ran Vista Boot Pro and forced detection, forgetting that I hadn't setup the rest of it.
    <br><br>
    Restarted the PC and got the ntoskrnl.exe is missing or corrupt problem. I had wiped the Boot information.
    <br><br>
    Restarted the PC with the Vista Recovery CD and did Startup Repair and restarted the PC and got the ntoskrnl.exe problem is missing or corrupt again, it was starting to sound like a cracked record
    <br><br>
    Restarted with Vista Recovery CD and did Startup Repair and low and behold I had a different menu item, I had a choice on what to < repair >. I chose the Original Business install.
    <br><br>
    The Menu choice that I had on startup Was Vista Business or Vista (Recovered)
    <br><br>
    I was up and running and used Boot Pro to change the Menu so that Vista (Recovered) was Vista Bus2.
    <br><br>
    Now I am going to have to start again to work out how to do it with Boot Pro.
    <br><br>
    < to add >
    <br><br>
    I may have stumbled on the fix for the ntoskrnl.exe problem is missing or corrupt.
    <br><br>

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    tcavadias Staff

    Just wanted to give an update - got an email from Dell this morning saying the new computer has been shipped and is due for a deleivery date or Mon/Tues. Now according to FedEx ground when I check the tracking it shows a delivery of Saturday.

    I've spent the last couple of days reading over everything (thank you Jacky and Col - I had plenty of bath time reading material), with that in mind along with a few other suggestions - I think I'm going to go the route of dual booting onto a third hard drive. Heck one can never have too much space right? So it's not like it will go to waste once I don't need it anymore or it doesn't work out. If that doesn't work for me though, the VMWare Enterprise (hope I got the name right there :-) ) is my second option ( as I'll need USB 2.0 support)

    Should it arrive on Saturday - I'll start the process late afternoon my time (after 3pm ET ) as hubby will be starting the 3-11pm shift this week.

    The only question I wonder about is should I disconnect the HD's that Vista 64 is sitting on before I start the install process so the new install will have its own MBR or would that be too much of a hassle to bother with? and if its not worth bothering with (just leave them connected) - will the names show Vista 64 and Vista 32 so I know which one I'm booting into or will both say Vista - and if both say Vista is there a way to edit that so I can make it say Vista 32.

    For now, remember I'll mainly be running Vista 32 bit so the 64 bit will be ignored until drivers come available for what I need.

    Thanks everyone once again :-)

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    Leave to to your Hubby to do as he will show what is required. :^0 :^0

    Now that I've got the Circuit City or whoever it was out of the way Tammy you don't need to disconnect the 64 Bit Drives as when you install the 32 Bit Version of Vista it will create a Dual Boot Option which should show the first boot option as the 64 Bit version of Vista and the second Boot Option as the 32 Bit Version of Vista

    At the very least the first option should be the Vista Home Premium Edition which if I remember correctly is the 64 Bit one and the second option will be what you install as a 32 Bit Option.

    I'll keep a Mail Client open so if you need any urgent help I'll get the message fairly quickly. I don't think that SWMBO will have me working out in the yard this weekend so when I'm not at the beast I'll look in from time to time.

    Cheers

    Col

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    tcavadias Staff

    I didn't think so either..but was reading some extra reasearch I did..someone mentioned - disconnecting them first one to give it its own MBR.

    As of right now...tracking says its sitting in Charlotte, NC about 3-3.5 hrs away(depdning on how fast you drive)... so I hope that means it will be here come morning, or at the very least early afternoon.

    -Tammy :-)

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    Jacky Howe

    Setup the drive that hasn't got the MBR and Boot from the Vista DVD and on the first screen click Next, click Repair your computer, if the Startup Repair doesn't automatically start click Next and click Next, select Startup Repair. Follow the prompts and you should be able to boot from the drive.
    <br><br>
    <i>Keep us informed as to your progress if you require further assistance.</i>
    <br><br>
    <font size="1"><i>If you think that any of the posts that have been made by all TR Members, have solved or contributed to solving the problem, please Mark them as <b>Helpful</b> so that others may benefit from the outcome.
    </i></font>

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    tcavadias Staff

    I did download a boot manager which is suppose to fix that little problem for me when dual booting with Vista.

    I did get my new computer in at 9:30am this morning. Just now getting a chance to get it open, now I'm getting ready to hook it up and make sure everything is at it should be, then install the new sound card I bought first. Once that is good to go, then I'll shut down and start the installing of the new HD and OS.

    And now the funs begins...

    -Tammy :-)

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    Jacky Howe

    with the install and if you have any problems I know a good place to ask questions.

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    tcavadias Staff

    So far nothing... why? Because as I got started... two teen-aged boys reminded me - one had a freshmen event at his HS, and the other was playing guitar at a rock concert (and he needed all his equiptment toted over) - back for 20 minutes until its time to pick up the frshment - the guitar player heavy metal/rock boy doesn't need loading up until later tonight...

    But I do have the sound card installed.. just not booted up yet for the drivers...

    And away we go....

    -Tammy :-)

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    tcavadias Staff

    New HD is installed - pretty simply as Dell actually included an extra sata cable already hooked up and ready to be placed into another HD (I can have 4 HD on this new one)

    Just booted from the Vista 32 bit CD... files installing...

    -Tammy :-)

    My fingers are crossed

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    tcavadias Staff

    well the files started loading then it said it wouldn't find the new hd (Sata) - just read everything that Western Digitial suggests... but none of it helps. It still does not see the new hd.

    Any ideas?

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    Jacky Howe

    to see that it is detected in BIOS. Start with only the CD/DVD on the last SATA Port and one Hard Drive on the lowest SATA0 or SATA1 depending on the board. Check your Motherboard Manual for BIOS settings for the Hard Drive.

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    tcavadias Staff

    the BIOS doesn't see it at all either... WD says check my raid settings and to ensure sata is enabled for all (it is).. then they said - possibly a bad hd drive even if its new (now that would make my night).

    Had to run to store to get me some Red Hots - some females eat chocolate when getting annoyed/stressed/depressed/etc.. - I eat red hots

    Motherboard manual LOL I did mention this was a Dell right? They never give you the manual.

    What I might try though and it will have to wait until tomorrow - is getting a seperate Sata controller card (instead of using the one on the MB) - never know (and its a little inkling I have - meaning the back of my head says its the sata connection)

    Overall though the new system is actually one of the best looking Dells I've seen in a long time - especially the inside - easy to get to everything except where the sata connectors are on the MB (they are covered up by the video card since that thing is HUGE and takes up two slots)

    But if worse comes to worse.. there is wiping the current HD's and just installing the 32 bit

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    Should have a setting in BIOS to enable the SATA Controller. The problem here is that Dell also have a SATA Driver for this unit.

    While we are at things grab a copy of the Service Manual from here

    http://supportapj.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps630i/en/SM/HTML/index.htm

    http://tinyurl.com/4c78oq

    The Owners Manual is available here for the way to install the OS

    http://supportapj.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps630i/en/OM/PDF/PP521A01.pdf

    http://tinyurl.com/5xlrj9

    What I think you are required to do here is follow the directions on Page 83 of the Manual on how to set the Boot Drive for when you install the 32 Bit OS.

    As this is a NVidia Chip Set M'Board Dell recommends that you Urgently Flash the BIOS to the one available on the Driver Page of Dell's Web Site here

    http://supportapj.dell.com/support/downloads/driverslist.aspx?c=au&cs=audhs1&l=en&s=dhs&ServiceTag=&SystemID=XPS_630I&os=WLH&osl=en&catid=&impid=

    Just in case TR Breaks the URL here is the Tiny URL for the same page

    http://tinyurl.com/5xmom8

    Here you need to check that your BIOS Version is 1.0.8 if it is you have the newest available but if it isn't you should flash it before doing anything else.

    Though you really should search by the Service Tag and not the computers model like I had to as it will show you exactly what is available for your hardware so you will not be given 13 different options for Video Drivers you'll just be shown the ones that you actually have and not all of the available Options Drivers.

    Lets know how you are getting on.

    Col

    PS in the service manual on Page 127 starting with this Heading Using the Operating System Media are the directions for installing the OS from the Supplied Media. Follow these directions with your OEM System Disc as the directions should work for that.

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    tcavadias Staff

    check it... there is no reason it shouldn't see this drive... so first thing in the morning I'm gonna try running it off its own sata controller card instead of Dell's... and while buying that..I'm gonna buy me an EIDE HD.. never know maybe it will like that one better

    For tonight though.. I'm going to give it a rest and let my mind clear.

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    If you get a SATA Controller Card you will need to get one that is compatible with the NVidia SATA Controller on the M'Board.

    The best bet would be a Promise Technology one as that should be safe with the NVidia M'Board Chip Set. A SIS Chip Set Controller Card will most likely be Incompatible with the M'Boards Chip Set and cause the system to not start.

    The easy answer here would be to use a IDE Drive as that will just work without a problem though if all the other Drives are SATA it will appear to the hardware as the C
    Drive because that is the way that Hardware works. This could introduce problems with the OS On the SATA Drives not being able to be loaded as the Hardware will have reorganized the Basic HDD layout and moved the Default C Partition away from the SATA Drive.

    I'm going to have a sleep as well as after over 36 hours I need a bit of a rest so I'll sleep on it and see what comes to mind.

    Col

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    tcavadias Staff

    to be exact - they are listed in the BIOS - one has slave and one for master.

    If I don't like this parition method route I took, I'll go that route.

    Wonder if there will be any problems with the fact Dell has the CD and the CDRW (there are two of them) set as optical drives. I remember reading something - but for the life of me can't remember what it was about optical drives you need to watch.

    -Tammy :-)

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    tcavadias Staff

    I really wanted to do this by using a different HD but figured if I had to wait until tomorrow - I'd just try doing it on a new parition. So that is what I did. I created a new parition - booted up with the Vista 32 bit CD - Installed it onthe new parition. And it is allowing me to dual boot between the two.

    Right now checking to make sure all the programs I need will run - so far they do.

    So I just may say the heck with a new HD and just keep it this way for now.

    Anyone know of any issues doing it this way I need to be aware of?

    -Tammy :-)

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    tcavadias Staff

    I'll give it a few days to ensure everything is good - Since I won't be using the 64 bit anyway - and this seems to be allowing me to boot fine into the 32 bit - all 32 bit drivers for everything have been installed - no errors after several reboots. Over-night sitting will tell the tell and a few days of running it.

    Does seem so much quicker than my old one - that is nice.

    But I did managed to fry my brand new keyboard (again) - hadn't had the thing but 2 weeks this time (thats a record) - but best buy will take it back and exhcnage it - so that is good.

    Guess I'll take my new HD back to, have to get me a monitor anyway (gonna set up my old for hubby's use - he only surgfs the net and does email - nothing fancy so it will work for him once I strip it down and leave the basics) - with that said - he'll need a monitor so since my old monitor (Dells 2405fpw) has no 64 bit drivers - (works fine on the 32 bit I'm running now) might as well get me a new monitor that will work on both 64/32 asnd give him this one. I saqw a very nice 25.5 Samsumg thast wasn't badly priced - might give that a whirl.

    Advice suggestions?

    BTW.. Thank you to everyone who hung around today while I tried to get that new hd installed - its a pita - Dell hates it

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    With Samsung Monitors they seem to work fine and if you like you can go the route of a 52 inch Monitor though I would imagine that using a Projector would be cheaper but it may have issues if you wanted to use it in a high light area.

    By the sounds of things what Dell is using as a RAID Driver is locking the system to just the RAID Array already fitted. I seem to remember that there was something about the RAID 0 Array Dell used not actually being RAID 0 as Dell use something slightly different. But I can not remember it I just know that there is something different about Dell's RAID 0 Array and it's not compatible with the Standard RAID 0 setup.

    With the extra HDD have you considered slipping it into a External Enclosure and using it for Data Storage? With these Stripped Arrays there is no redundancy so that when 1 drive fails it takes out the entire Array. With 2 Drives you have twice the chances of a HDD Failure from poor Workmanship being introduced.

    I was a bot surprised to hear that this new unit has a CD Drive and CD Burner as I can not buy anything but DVD Burners now. But from what you have been through with the third HDD I think that Dell need to do things this way because their RAID Setup will not allow for the use of SATA Optical Drives.

    While you can Edit the OS Names at the point where you chose which OS to boot into at thins stage I wouldn't bother as if you **** it all away it will have been a wasted effort and when you finally decide that you want to keep what you have it's no longer necessary to change things as you already know what's what but then again I'm Lazy and don't like doing more work that necessary.

    Lets know how you get on here.

    Col

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    OH Smeg

    Bung in some extra Case Fans as you need to keep the NVidia Chips cool. They currently have a Heat Issue which is directly affecting their Video Cards but as some are claiming that it is a Design Fault the problem could be spread to the entire range of NVidia Chips. Set the Alarms in BIOS to a low Heat Level and enable the Throttling back of CPU Power to the high end of the available range.

    Apparently Old Mycroft has had a problem with these Chips or maybe still is check here for a reply on this issue posted elsewhere on TR.

    http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-10879-0.html?forumID=101&threadID=274403&messageID=2600321

    Col

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    tcavadias Staff

    I checked and it appears Dell has it set that way already

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    You need to keep the different OS's on different partitions so if you load the second OS the 32 Bit version on the second HDD it will work and you will be given the option of which OS you want to start when you boot the computer after the Dell Splash Screen.

    Now for the possible problems.

    Here it all depends on how Dell configure this computer if they actually load any software on the second HDD you will need to reload the Primary OS as well if you have bought the 32 Bit Version from Dell as they do not sell full OEM Copies just Slipstreamed Recovery Disc's so they need to format the drive before you can install the OS.

    Even if you have a M$ Supplied OEM CD it's still better to keep all of the 64 Bit Software on it's own drive away from the 32 Bit OS and Associated Software as there will be problems that arise.

    If Dell have configured any sort of RAID Array you'll have to reinstall both OS so do this before you do anything else and remember unless you have a license of Office 2007 remove it completely Do Not us it as you will have formatting issues with older versions of Office when it comes time to use your primary Office Application. Of course if you plan on using something like Open Office, Word Perfect Office because they can edit PDF Files you don't need to worry about 2007 anyway.

    Drop me a PM if you need any assistance.

    Col
    edited because I'm an Idiot.

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    tcavadias Staff

    as the Googling I did said it would be huh? None of the tips I found said anything about raid (and yes it will come configured that way)

    This is actually the basic configuration for the new one:

    XPS 630, Intel Core2 processorE8500 (3.16 GHz,1333FSB) w/Dual Core Technology and 6MB cache

    6GB DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz

    nVidia GeForce 9800GX2 1024MB

    Serial ATA RAID 0 With Dual 300GB SATA HD(10KRPM),Western Digital,VR150

    Microsoft Windows Vista SP1 Home Premium 64-bit Edition English


    and of course MS Office 2007

    Sound card will be the SB XFI Plantium

    ___

    The Vista 32 bit is a retail copy not an OEM copy from Dell. I wonder if XP would be easier to dual boot instead of Vista 32 bit? or the same issues?

    Any chance of there being a software program out there that would do all the leg work for me???? (wishful thinking huh?)

    Dual booting and Raid - two new items I have yet to experience - but hey I'm always up for learning new things.

    Thanks OH Smeg :-)

    -Tammy :-)

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    IC-IT

    Your programs do the require 32 bit Drivers or run in a 32 bit OS?
    If the OS then they will generally run in the 64bit OS at 32bit.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

    If there is a problem, turn off 64 bit;

    http://www.tipandtrick.net/2008/how-to-open-and-run-32-bit-command-prompt-in-64-bit-x64-windows/

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    OH Smeg

    Well in that case Tammy you only have 1 HDD as a RAID combines both Drives and only shows one Drive available in Explorer.

    If it comes that way you'll have a Stripped Array so you get better performance as both drives only hold part of the Data to improve speed.

    If you want to use the 2 drives separately you'll need to reinstall the 64 Bit OS without the RAID which may not be the easiest thing to do as the Recovery DVD will have the RAID Drivers and setup slipstreamed on it and want to install it. You may need to remove one of the drives to get the system to load if it will at all.

    I'm not sure about the Dell RAID as I seem to remember that it's not actually a RAID 0 Array it is only described that way to make it easier to sell the idea. Dell has this description on their Web Site but I seem to remember that they do it differently.

    http://tinyurl.com/48pyxr

    Just another thought any 32 Bit Windows can not use 4 GIG of RAM so 6 will most defiantly be over kill but work a treat with the 64 Bit version of Vista.

    Now for your other questions. :^0

    I wonder if XP would be easier to dual boot instead of Vista 32 bit? or the same issues?

    Sorry same issues but XP works better than Vista and supports more hardware so it might be a better option depending on your hardware include external things like Printers and so on here.

    Any chance of there being a software program out there that would do all the leg work for me???? (wishful thinking huh?)

    Sorry No there isn't and even if there was such a beast I wouldn't trust it as far as I can kick the M$ building as unassembling a RAID 0 Array and removing the RAID Driver from the Windows Kernel isn't something that is possible or desirable. Well with a software solution at least.

    On the Plus Side installing the OEM 32 Bit version of Vista will be a breeze after you have reinstalled the 64 Bit version without the RAID. Though you will need to download the 32 Bit Drivers for this hardware as the 64 Bit ones will not actually work on a 32 Bit OS. To do this open Device Manager and make a list of all the hardware and then look for 32 Bit Drivers for it. Start off on the Dell Web Site they should have the 32 Bit Drivers already there so you can download them easily. If they don't have em all try Drivers Guide for the required drivers that Dell doesn't list.

    http://tinyurl.com/khyvv

    Just remember to save them to a different location as when you delete the RAID all of the Data will be lost. But on the up side Dell provides several different Install Disc's there is the Primary OS and the Media Center or something like that which needs to be installed first to set the basic Partitions on the HDD's But you may not want to use this as it is only a recovery option which you can do without.

    Then you will have a Driver Disc which contains some system drivers and all of the Utilities and another Driver Disc and then the Office Install Disc.

    The OS install Disc is a DVD and all the rest should be CD's so they will not take long to install but none the less you should install one driver at a time and not allow the system to use the complete Driver Install Utility as they do produce problems with incompatible drivers conflicting with each other on the install.

    Unless you are a glutton for punishment it may be easier to just fit another HDD to install the 32 Bit Version to.

    OH also be prepared to need to download up to a GIG of Dell Drivers and Utilities for the 32 Bit Version of either XP or Vista so if you know the model that you purchased or are otherwise getting you could start download loading the drivers and Utilities now for the 32 Bit. You'll need to run the EXE on the system after you get it and they will install to a folder on the C Drive called dell where they will run from.

    Also when you install the 32 Bit OS Do Not Enable the Auto Update Option on the screen before Windows Opens for the First time as you will have problems with the Sound Driver which needs to be installed before you connect tot he Windows Update Server.

    Having second thought yet? ?:|

    OH and very importantly remember to remove the COA for the plastic Covering on the 32 Bit OEM Disc you can not install this without that 25 Digit Alpha Numeric Key. It should be stuck onto the case for use latter but none the less I always make a record of the Product Key as I find the COA very hard to read when it's on a case. Maybe that's just me and my 21 + year old eyes failing but I have seen numerous cases with OEM Product where the plastic covering is just ripped off and tossed and the COA gets lost. The COA is a Sticker on the outside of the OEM Product which you peal off supposedly before opening the product.

    Col

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    tcavadias Staff

    but it does leave me with another question...

    I just like to see all my angles...

    Since the 64 bit is what I'll be after long term but need 32 bit short term... Since I have a windows 32 bit retail copy and can get 32 bit drivers for everything... What if I just wiped out the HD(s) totally and reinstalled with Vista 32 bit only..then when I didn't need the 32 bit anymore... format it again, but this time using the 64 bit I get from Dell? I do have a 4 yr warranty on this including accidental, so I know I can get their assistance later if putting back the 64 bit goes horribly wrong.

    Simpler method? Too hard? Too screwy of an idea?

    The Third HD is an option.. would an external work?

    -Tammy :-)

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    tcavadias Staff

    Is it possible to remove the raid? Say by reformatting... and then using the two hard drives as such - one for each OS?

    I know a million questions...

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    Tammy do you realize that there is an Edit Function available?

    Yes you can install the 32 Bit Version of the OS without voiding the warranty but Dell may not be much help when you have a software problem. Though to be perfectly honest that aren't much help anyway so maybe there would be no difference. Their First Option is to always **** away the existing install and rebuild the system with the supplied Recovery Disc. Hardly helpful if you have a software conflict as as soon as you reinstall the offending bits it will be back again.

    But the Problem here is that the 32 Bit doesn't come slipstreamed for a RAID installation so you would need to set this up if you wanted to use a RAID.

    The 64 Bit Version from Dell should come with a pre-configured RAID on the Install Disc and should install this by default which could be hard to work around if it's not on a separate Install Disc.

    A External HDD wouldn't be my first choice as they are more vulnerable to damage from Heat and getting knocked about. In a External Case every HDD runs hotter than it would in a computer case as it just lacks the surface area of metal in the case to act as a Heat Sink and drag heat away from the HDD. It's also far less stable in an external case then in a Computer Case as you are very unlikely to bump a Computer Case and knock it off wherever it is positioned but a External HDD case is far easier to knock around. Remember you have Kids around you so you need to Child Proof the unit. Maybe your Hubby could explain this to you. :^0 :^0

    The Raid is actually setup in the Pre Windows Configuration so just by installing the OS again and not configuring the RAID you could install Both OS's easily but the problem here is that one is on a Dell Recovery Disc not a M$ Install Disc and doesn't follow the rules. Besides formatting the Drives would get rid of all the files which are 50% of the complete Data so it's a Good Idea Anyway. But Technically it's not necessary to reformat but it is highly desirable.

    If this was my system I would probably do a Wipe & Reload as I just don't like all of the junk that comes with prebuilt systems all of the Dell Utilities slow things down a lot and I don't like them but that's just me others may like it all.

    I use Wipe & Zap from IBM but that's no longer available and while not as good as Boot & Nuke it's faster and I'm not patient. I only use Boot & Nuke when I need to wipe a drive totally and that isn't often.

    Anyway I hope that is of some assistance and isn't tooooooooooooooo confusing.

    Col

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    tcavadias Staff

    While they are teenaged boys.. they don't come into my office. I have an upstairs FROG that is roughly 20x18 with a U shaped desk.. that is 6 feet on the left... 13 feet across (where I sit) and 9 feet on the right - this gives me plenty of room to spread things out (as I hate things all cluttered together when I'm working) and not have things bumping or getting knocked about - so that might not be an issue for an external.

    So it looks like I'm down to three main choices:

    - wiping everything out and using 32 bit only for now (later when the time comes wiping again and going back to 64 bit with Dells help on getting the raid reset back up - I don't see the point in that (raid) for the 32 bit for now) After all even when I'm not working - I'm working if something comes up while I'm playing, so I don't want to have to switch OS's in the middle.

    - Going external - a viable option if this would allow the main OS to remain - then once I no longer needed the 32 bit, its just a simple matter of uninstalling anything that needs uninstalling and removing the external. Saving the hassle of reinstalling the 64 bit further down the road.

    - Going virtual? But as you mentioned it might be too clunky.

    So that really probably would leave with with two choices - External or wiping and going soley 32 bit for now.

    -Tammy :-)

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    Jacky Howe

    a removable drive kit. There would be a lot less mucking around.
    <br><br>
    http://www.addonics.com/products/mobile_rack/aenrhdsa35-r.asp?PageType=Print
    <br><br>
    <i>Keep us informed as to your progress if you require further assistance.</i>
    <br><br>
    <br><br>
    <font size="1"><i>If you think that any of the posts that have been made by all TR Members, have solved or contributed to solving the problem, please Mark them as <b>Helpful</b> so that others may benefit from the outcome.</i></font>

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    OH Smeg

    Even the Active Cooled ones the drives in them run very hot and as this will hold a 32 Bit OS which is most likely to be used more at the moment it wouldn't be my preferred option.

    I've seen too many drives fitted like this fail for my liking. If it was a little use it would be ideal but not for Full Time Use.

    The external ones are just way too slow and downright dangerous for a job like this.

    Besides Tammy is a Blondie, Harley owner do I need to say any more?

    Col

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    Jacky Howe

    that that one was aluminium.

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    Jacky Howe

    I just thought that it would be a cheap investment to try out both Operating Systems with less configuration. I have always found that it doesn't take long when I Dual Boot to tend to use only one OS and the other rarely if ever gets used. It ends up as a wasted Drive that could be used for Storage. When the decision is made as to what OS is to be used the Hard Drives could be moved into the PC.

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    tcavadias Staff

    Just asked about that... If I went the 3rd HD route

    Course if it comes down to it I can go Win XP sp2.. since I haven't opened the Vista 32 bit yet, I can still take it back and exchange it - as long as which ever one I use is 32 bit - which is actually what I'd be using mainly - short term, eventually 64 drivers will come along for what I need and then 64 bit will become the main one (which is also why I went 64 bit since I was thinking long term and not short term)

    -Tammy :-)

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    Jacky Howe

    all of that Memory with XP, you would have to drop it to 3 or 2GB. Vista32 will run on that amount of memory and up to 4GB, but if you want to use the full amount then go with Vista64. I like your idea of useing the Vista32 for awhile at least until they get Vista64 sorted out. Who knows you may be one of the lucky ones and get a good install of Vista and not have any problems.

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    tcavadias Staff

    .. the 6 gbs was a free upgrade from 4 gbs So who was I to complain :-D

    I am starting to lean toward maybe the best way is just to wipe everything and go straight Vista 32 or XP.. Heck the worse that can happen is I call up Dell and say my computer is messed up and they have to fix it (by putting Vista 64 back ) - that's what I paid for.

    Might actually be the simplest method for now - since I really won't use the 64 bit - much if at all. My laptop has the 64 bit, so I can use that if need be when I want to use 64 bit.

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    With a 32 Bit OS but it will be wasted and not used though when 64 Bit Systems do start to be used things will be different. So the RAM isn't actually wasted if you look at things that way it will be used eventually when 64 Bit Systems are used but it's been a long time coming I can remember AMD giving away 64 Bit XP with their then new 64 Bit CPU's and they are yet to get used.


    I regularly fit 4 GIG to systems running 32 Bit OS's here but that is because of Dual Channel RAM and I don't want the units running in Single Channel Mode as it's slower so a bit of RAM not being used is nothing any 32 Bit Windows system will use 3.2 GIG so the remaining bit more than makes up for things and keeps the system in Dual Channel Mode. After all it's not as if a Gig of RAM is expensive these days. Besides you know that this way there will not be any timing issues with the RAM so I would keep it on the M'Board.

    But then again maybe that's just me.

    Col

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    Jacky Howe

    I would go with XP Pro 32 bit. Leave Vista until a few more bugs have been sorted out. That is my opinion as we are still BETA testing it as far as I am concerned.

    Mind you they must be working on something as the last Vista install that I did downloaded 160MB of Updates and then the next day it decided that it wanted to install SP1.

    Vista 32 bit at the moment is using 16.8GB of space and I haven't added any software as yet. Only WinRar and Vista Boot Pro. PageFile is 1.29GB.

    MB not GB

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    OH Smeg

    I don't know how well it works running that way and as Vista is a Hardware Hog running the 32 Bit Version Virtually on a 64 Bit Version I'm not sure just how well that would run.

    I don't know anyone that's tried it either so I have no idea of the actual results. I know that I gave up using Virtual Desktops because they drove me crazy and where too slow for me but it may be OK for Tammy here. I just don't know on this one.

    Col

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    Jacky Howe

    Yep it worked OK but I didn't have enough RAM or CPU power so it was a bit slow. Ran all the basic tests with it and they all worked. That would be a good environment to run it in as if you stuff up you just don't save the state as you close out of the VM. Its probably the safest way to run it and keep it running.

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    OH Smeg

    Do you want to guide Tammy Through it or me?

    I'm certainly no Vista expert here as I don't even like it all that much.

    Col

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    Jacky Howe

    easier if we all work together. Between us we should be able to get Tammy up and running. I will supply the Steps for the installation and we will see how it goes from there. I would love to be able to give you a copy of the first Vista Beta to have a look at. What an experience it was trying to use it and find your way around.
    <br><br>
    There is no way that I would part with any money for it as it still as far as I am concerned not ready yet, it still has bugs even with SP1. We all got a free copy of Vista Business Retail for Beta testing.
    <br><br>

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    tcavadias Staff

    We can give this a whirl first and if it doesn't work out well - then we have two other options - external or wiping.

    Even though the new one is due to arrive on a weds (they say the 18th but could be later since I had it customized with different options - then the orginal buy it like this option) - but regardless of when it arrives it will be either a week-end or a evening hours (my evening hours that is) when I start the process - so I'll be doing it around normal working hours - though my working hours are really all the time in most cases spammers don't take vacations or days off

    I much appreciate all the assistance - should be fun learning something new. Now if I could make the wireless connection in my laptop behave all would be well. :-)

    -Tammy :-)

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    The Scummy One

    Why not turn it into a Blog or Article?
    Maybe a 2 parter, part 1, setup a Vista VM, part 2, using Vista in a VM

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    tcavadias Staff

    How to install Vista 32 on a VM that even a Blonde can do it

    -Tammy :-)

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    Jacky Howe

    Just be sure to read up on the documentation that I have given the links to and it should be a breeze.


    You could also use VMWare but I am not familiar with it. Anyway I like to keep M$ with M$.

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    OH Smeg

    But by the same token VM Ware works a treat and doesn't come in different flavors for 32 & 64 Bit Operation.

    Where I have a problem is with Vista as I don't run it here and although I have all of the M$ Beta Versions of it and have tested it as well as a Volume License of Ultimate 32 Bit I haven't tried running a Virtual Machine on it with anything that approaches a Domestic System. It worked a treat on a dual Quad Core Xeon with 24 GIG of RAM but this isn't something that I expect to be available in many places and exceeds Vista's requirements by a very large amount. But it was a Nice System.

    Now Tammy the RAID is not for Redundancy here it's for SPEED so ideally if you end up choosing to wipe and just go with a 32 Bit OS it would be a good idea to reestablish the RAID so that you get a fair comparison between the two different OS's. As after using the 64 Bit Version on the RAID and then using a 32 Bit without this Performance Enhancement it will appear to be slower considerably slower.

    It's like using a IDE Drive to do the same thing that a Integrated SCSI Controller does with 15K SCSI Drives to Boot from there is a massive speed difference though to be totally fair I've never used SATA Drives in a RAID as the Server Boards that I use have always had the SCSI Controller Built in and well it's faster though a lot more expensive.

    On reflection I think that setting up a VM will be the way to go here and there are a couple of things here that you need to know as Vista comes on a DVD making a ISO Image maybe a bit hard as ISO Images are not supposed to encase the 4.7 GIG of a DVD well at least that's outside the Standard you'll need to use UDF/ISO to make the Image. Depending on what you have available there are many possibilities I've used Nero quite often to convert a Install Disc to a ISO Image but I do understand it's not everyone's Cup of Tea to do it that way. I've used Magic ISO previously and that's about it for making ISO's I haven't needed any other tools so I can not recommend any though I think that PT has recommended a Free Utility for this he may have some first hand experience here which I sadly lack.

    OH and Tammy Teenage kids are easy it's when they get to the early to mid 20's or older where they Know It All and do as they like because you know nothing that life gets difficult. Now will you take my 35 year old son and his wife off my hands? Both will drive you insane in the way that they manage to destroy OS's.

    Looks like I'll have to do some ground work and setup a Dual Core system to have a play with Vissy.

    Col

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    tcavadias Staff

    .. they already do believe they know it all - told em - well since you know it all its time to get a job, start living in the real world while you still do

    No I don't want no 35 yr old - when these last ones finally move out - I'm moving someplace they can't find me

    Got this all printed out and Jacky's too for my bath time reading material...

    Nice explaination on the raid - that makes sense since I'm more familiar IDE/SCSI

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    When SWMBO two moved out we turned one bedroom into a Junk Room and the other one got used as a Lab and for 15 years they couldn't move back in to bulge off us.

    Then we moved to a smaller house set it up the way we wanted it and have absolutely no room and SWMBO son moved back in with his wife and are now living on the couches in the living room when they can be bothered to stay at home and not go out to play.

    Anyway the RAID in this case could be IDE as it is just a way to improve Data Transfer from the HDD to the user for use. I'm not sure just how much faster it will be though as modern SATA Drives with 16 MEG of Cache are pretty fast and the read write times are very low so I'm not sure just how much of an improvement in speed it will be perhaps others here know this as I've never bothered to try one. I just don't see it as much of an advantage and the costs are pretty high for what it is as you need 2 HDD to do the job of 1. But in this case you should have the Full Capacity of Both Drives so you will probably be getting the best of both worlds or maybe that should read the beast of both worlds.

    Anyway I'll have a think on this and see what I have lying around here to play with.

    Enjoy your bath and hopefully there will be no interruptions. :0

    Col

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    Jacky Howe

    I was away from home working and staying on a property, well we knew that the work would run out and when it did I started heading home. I was hitch hiking back in those days and managed to get a lift to Queanbeyan which meant that I had another 15 miles to go to get home to Bungendore. It was getting close to sundown as I walked past my Great Grand Mothers house and decided that I had better say hello. Well we had a cuppa tea and a chin wag and I said that "I had better be going as it's hard to get a lift at night". She then said "You only have to go next door", "Your Mum and Dad moved in yesterday".

    Boy was I glad that I stopped in to say G'day.

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    tcavadias Staff

    Rather than hide from the kids... move in next door to them and torture them for the rest of their lives!

    -Tammy :-)

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    w2ktechman

    at least you wont need to hide out!

    And then your torture plan will really work, instead of a week party, its ever-after :^0

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    w2ktechman

    You can load Vista 64 for the main system, and use a virtual machine for Vista 32 bit. You have plenty of RAM and disk space, and can use both OS's at the same time (if needed).

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    tcavadias Staff

    but would that word with the Raid - based on what Col was mentioning?

    And if it did, then we are looking at another new thing I haven't done - I know the concept - but have never done it myself.

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    As the Virtual OS doesn't actually control the Hardware it only controls the Main OS interface tot he Hardware. So it would run quite happily on the RAID.

    The down side is that the Second or Virtual OS is slower and as this would be your Primary Work Platform I'm not sure that you'll be happy with the speed of it. It's also a bit more complicated installing software onto the Virtual Computer but nothing really nasty is involved. Running the 32 Bit OS virtually would work as the 64 Bit one which controls the actual Hardware will use 100% of the available Hardwares capacity but as it's your Primary OS which you will need to work in I have my doubts about just how satisfactory it will be.

    Still I suppose you can suck it and see if you are happy with it. After all, all that will happen is it will be too slow or finicky for your needs and you need to **** away the install of both OS's after backing up your Data. M$'s Virtual PC is available to download here

    http://tinyurl.com/3ccjz8
    If you want to take a look see you'll need the 64 Bit Version for the new PC but can test the 32 Bit Version they both work the same way I've been told at least as I don't use it VM Ware has a better product but it's not the simplest thing to use if you have never used a Virtual PC previously. VM Wares offering is available here if you want to have a look see.

    http://tinyurl.com/67q6zy

    Col

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    The Scummy One

    but not much. You should have plenty of resources to use it like this. And since it is the easiest way, and you can use both at the same time, this would be my preference to tell you.

    Personally, I have used swappable (IDE) drives with several bays (like Jacky mentions) and is my preferred method. However this poses new issues like having a good place to put the other drives/OS's, always needing to swap, etc..

    However doing a true dual boot has advantages as well, however it also has the problem of setting it up properly.

    Since the VM costs nothing, and is easy to setup using Dell's default 64-bit install, I say this would be a good start. If it doesnt work out for you, then you still have the other options. As a bonus, you wont have to reboot to switch to the other OS...

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    OnTheRopes

    I've done it before, at boot go into the BIOS to choose what drive to use to boot. If you have a 3rd drive you could leave your two current drives be, so your System Restore should work fine. Just install Vista 32 bit on the third drive by shutting off the other two in the BIOS when you boot. I believe that there are instructions here at TR on how to make a dual-boot system with Vista 32 and XP. Im not sure if you'll have to pull the 'extra' RAM or not or if Windows just won't recognize it.<br><br>
    Of course I'm just a lowly pc hobbyist but adding a third drive is what I'd do. The newer Dell cases for desktops are huge and have enough space for it. <br><br>
    I'd also get a monster external USB drive and use Ghost on a regular basis too. I've heard that Acronis True Image is as good or better than Ghost but I have no experience with it. If you had a Ghost image of your old XP drive you could just place it on the new third drive and then install Vista 32 for a dual boot.<br><br>
    Now, if I can ever afford it, when it becomes time to replace my Dell I'm going to go with an Apple MacPro. With additonal software like Parallels: http://www.parallels.com/en/ you can easily run any Windows software on a Mac that you want and you'd have the extra speed benefit of having a native 64-bit OS. There's also the added immeasurable geek factor but who cares about geek stuff? Too late now I guess but I just had to point that out or I'd be stifling myself.

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    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm?referrer=google&type=GoogleAdWordsContent
    This will give you a boot window of which to choose from before booting.

    Please post back if you have any more problems or questions.
    If this info is useful, please mark it helpful. Thanks

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    tcavadias Staff

    I've saved that to favorites to give it a read through.

    -Tammy :-)

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    Please post back if you have any more problems or questions.

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    Jacky Howe

    These are the steps that I have taken to install Vista to a Virtual PC. I don't think that I have left anything out but if I have someone will correct me.
    <br><br>
    Read up on the documentation that comes with the software.
    <br><br>
    Virtual PC 2007 Release Notes
    <br><br>
    http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/4/c/44ccd131-67fb-4224-a96e-193be1765b43/relnotes.htm
    <br><br>
    Download the full version of Microsoft Virtual PC 2007
    <br><br>
    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=04D26402-3199-48A3-AFA2-2DC0B40A73B6&displaylang=en
    <br><br>
    <br><br>
    Create your New Virtual Machine by clicking New. Click Next, select Create a virtual machine, click Next. Now you will give it a Name and Location. In XP the Default destination is My Documents, My Virtual Machines, I keep them in there. You can browse to the Location that you require and select OK. Click Next, select Operating system Windows Vista.
    <br><br>
    <br><br>
    Default hardware selection:
    <br><br>
    Memory: It will show the Memory that has been allocated.
    <br><br>
    Virtual disk: 65,536 MB will be allocated.
    <br><br>
    Sound: Vista sound compatible.
    <br><br>
    Click Next and now you will be able to adjust the RAM or use the default allocation. Click Next and you will have a choice to use an existing or a new Virtual hard disk as you shouldn't have an existing disk select New. Click Next and you will will be given a chance to change the name and location, it can be left as it is. You will also have the choice to change the Hard Disk size. The Maximum size is 130,557 MB, make your adjustment if requied and click Next and click Finish.
    <br><br>
    <br><br>
    Create an ISO Image from your Vista DVD.
    <br><br>
    This is the hard part as far as I am concerned as I always use Magic ISO but there are free ones out there that should be able to do it I just can't recommend one. Someone else will be able to weigh in on this.
    <br><br>
    http://www.shivaranjan.com/2006/09/26/how-to-create-iso-file-from-folders-and-cd-dvd/
    <br><br>
    http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=245
    <br><br>
    http://www.simplehelp.net/2007/09/26/how-to-create-an-iso-file-in-windows/
    <br><br>
    <br><br>
    Once you have created the ISO open the Virtual PC Console, Highlight the Operating System and click Start.
    <br><br>
    Click on CD and select Capture ISO Image. Navigate to your new Vista ISO and select it.
    <br><br>
    Follow the prompts for the install and put in your Key.
    <br><br>
    Leave everything connected to your PC including the Internet Access and Vista should automatically find it.
    <br><br>
    Install your Antivirus when you are up and running.
    <br><br>
    <br><br>
    I was lucky when I installed it on my PC as Vista found everything and I had no need to install any Device drivers.
    <br><br>

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    tcavadias Staff

    Got this saved and printed out - I'll read this all over and download what I need onto disc beforehand.

    May sound weird to some - but I'm actually looking forward to trying this - as its something new and challenges my brain :-)

    -Tammy :-)

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    Jacky Howe

    and you are in the right place if you need any assistance.

    They reckon a change is as good as a holiday and the old grey matter needs a bit of exercise every now and then.

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    Jacky Howe

    How I managed to Dual Boot Vista and Vista by stuffing up.
    <br><br>
    I installed Vista on seperate Hard Drives by only having one Drive connected at a time.
    <br><br>
    Connected the Drives with the Vista Drive that I wanted as the Main Drive on Slot0 and the second Drive on Slot1.
    <br><br>
    Started up the PC and installed VistaBootPRO v.3.3
    <br><br>
    This is where I was interrupted and missed a couple of steps when I got back to it. Alright I simply forgot, I think it comes with age.
    <br><br>
    I then ran Vista Boot Pro and forced detection, forgetting that I hadn't setup the rest of it.
    <br><br>
    Restarted the PC and got the ntoskrnl.exe is missing or corrupt problem. I had wiped the Boot information.
    <br><br>
    Restarted the PC with the Vista Recovery CD and did Startup Repair and restarted the PC and got the ntoskrnl.exe problem is missing or corrupt again, it was starting to sound like a cracked record
    <br><br>
    Restarted with Vista Recovery CD and did Startup Repair and low and behold I had a different menu item, I had a choice on what to < repair >. I chose the Original Business install.
    <br><br>
    The Menu choice that I had on startup Was Vista Business or Vista (Recovered)
    <br><br>
    I was up and running and used Boot Pro to change the Menu so that Vista (Recovered) was Vista Bus2.
    <br><br>
    Now I am going to have to start again to work out how to do it with Boot Pro.
    <br><br>
    < to add >
    <br><br>
    I may have stumbled on the fix for the ntoskrnl.exe problem is missing or corrupt.
    <br><br>

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    tcavadias Staff

    Just wanted to give an update - got an email from Dell this morning saying the new computer has been shipped and is due for a deleivery date or Mon/Tues. Now according to FedEx ground when I check the tracking it shows a delivery of Saturday.

    I've spent the last couple of days reading over everything (thank you Jacky and Col - I had plenty of bath time reading material), with that in mind along with a few other suggestions - I think I'm going to go the route of dual booting onto a third hard drive. Heck one can never have too much space right? So it's not like it will go to waste once I don't need it anymore or it doesn't work out. If that doesn't work for me though, the VMWare Enterprise (hope I got the name right there :-) ) is my second option ( as I'll need USB 2.0 support)

    Should it arrive on Saturday - I'll start the process late afternoon my time (after 3pm ET ) as hubby will be starting the 3-11pm shift this week.

    The only question I wonder about is should I disconnect the HD's that Vista 64 is sitting on before I start the install process so the new install will have its own MBR or would that be too much of a hassle to bother with? and if its not worth bothering with (just leave them connected) - will the names show Vista 64 and Vista 32 so I know which one I'm booting into or will both say Vista - and if both say Vista is there a way to edit that so I can make it say Vista 32.

    For now, remember I'll mainly be running Vista 32 bit so the 64 bit will be ignored until drivers come available for what I need.

    Thanks everyone once again :-)

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    Leave to to your Hubby to do as he will show what is required. :^0 :^0

    Now that I've got the Circuit City or whoever it was out of the way Tammy you don't need to disconnect the 64 Bit Drives as when you install the 32 Bit Version of Vista it will create a Dual Boot Option which should show the first boot option as the 64 Bit version of Vista and the second Boot Option as the 32 Bit Version of Vista

    At the very least the first option should be the Vista Home Premium Edition which if I remember correctly is the 64 Bit one and the second option will be what you install as a 32 Bit Option.

    I'll keep a Mail Client open so if you need any urgent help I'll get the message fairly quickly. I don't think that SWMBO will have me working out in the yard this weekend so when I'm not at the beast I'll look in from time to time.

    Cheers

    Col

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    tcavadias Staff

    I didn't think so either..but was reading some extra reasearch I did..someone mentioned - disconnecting them first one to give it its own MBR.

    As of right now...tracking says its sitting in Charlotte, NC about 3-3.5 hrs away(depdning on how fast you drive)... so I hope that means it will be here come morning, or at the very least early afternoon.

    -Tammy :-)

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    Jacky Howe

    Setup the drive that hasn't got the MBR and Boot from the Vista DVD and on the first screen click Next, click Repair your computer, if the Startup Repair doesn't automatically start click Next and click Next, select Startup Repair. Follow the prompts and you should be able to boot from the drive.
    <br><br>
    <i>Keep us informed as to your progress if you require further assistance.</i>
    <br><br>
    <font size="1"><i>If you think that any of the posts that have been made by all TR Members, have solved or contributed to solving the problem, please Mark them as <b>Helpful</b> so that others may benefit from the outcome.
    </i></font>

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    tcavadias Staff

    I did download a boot manager which is suppose to fix that little problem for me when dual booting with Vista.

    I did get my new computer in at 9:30am this morning. Just now getting a chance to get it open, now I'm getting ready to hook it up and make sure everything is at it should be, then install the new sound card I bought first. Once that is good to go, then I'll shut down and start the installing of the new HD and OS.

    And now the funs begins...

    -Tammy :-)

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    Jacky Howe

    with the install and if you have any problems I know a good place to ask questions.

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    tcavadias Staff

    So far nothing... why? Because as I got started... two teen-aged boys reminded me - one had a freshmen event at his HS, and the other was playing guitar at a rock concert (and he needed all his equiptment toted over) - back for 20 minutes until its time to pick up the frshment - the guitar player heavy metal/rock boy doesn't need loading up until later tonight...

    But I do have the sound card installed.. just not booted up yet for the drivers...

    And away we go....

    -Tammy :-)

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    tcavadias Staff

    New HD is installed - pretty simply as Dell actually included an extra sata cable already hooked up and ready to be placed into another HD (I can have 4 HD on this new one)

    Just booted from the Vista 32 bit CD... files installing...

    -Tammy :-)

    My fingers are crossed

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    tcavadias Staff

    well the files started loading then it said it wouldn't find the new hd (Sata) - just read everything that Western Digitial suggests... but none of it helps. It still does not see the new hd.

    Any ideas?

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    Jacky Howe

    to see that it is detected in BIOS. Start with only the CD/DVD on the last SATA Port and one Hard Drive on the lowest SATA0 or SATA1 depending on the board. Check your Motherboard Manual for BIOS settings for the Hard Drive.

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    tcavadias Staff

    the BIOS doesn't see it at all either... WD says check my raid settings and to ensure sata is enabled for all (it is).. then they said - possibly a bad hd drive even if its new (now that would make my night).

    Had to run to store to get me some Red Hots - some females eat chocolate when getting annoyed/stressed/depressed/etc.. - I eat red hots

    Motherboard manual LOL I did mention this was a Dell right? They never give you the manual.

    What I might try though and it will have to wait until tomorrow - is getting a seperate Sata controller card (instead of using the one on the MB) - never know (and its a little inkling I have - meaning the back of my head says its the sata connection)

    Overall though the new system is actually one of the best looking Dells I've seen in a long time - especially the inside - easy to get to everything except where the sata connectors are on the MB (they are covered up by the video card since that thing is HUGE and takes up two slots)

    But if worse comes to worse.. there is wiping the current HD's and just installing the 32 bit

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    Should have a setting in BIOS to enable the SATA Controller. The problem here is that Dell also have a SATA Driver for this unit.

    While we are at things grab a copy of the Service Manual from here

    http://supportapj.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps630i/en/SM/HTML/index.htm

    http://tinyurl.com/4c78oq

    The Owners Manual is available here for the way to install the OS

    http://supportapj.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps630i/en/OM/PDF/PP521A01.pdf

    http://tinyurl.com/5xlrj9

    What I think you are required to do here is follow the directions on Page 83 of the Manual on how to set the Boot Drive for when you install the 32 Bit OS.

    As this is a NVidia Chip Set M'Board Dell recommends that you Urgently Flash the BIOS to the one available on the Driver Page of Dell's Web Site here

    http://supportapj.dell.com/support/downloads/driverslist.aspx?c=au&cs=audhs1&l=en&s=dhs&ServiceTag=&SystemID=XPS_630I&os=WLH&osl=en&catid=&impid=

    Just in case TR Breaks the URL here is the Tiny URL for the same page

    http://tinyurl.com/5xmom8

    Here you need to check that your BIOS Version is 1.0.8 if it is you have the newest available but if it isn't you should flash it before doing anything else.

    Though you really should search by the Service Tag and not the computers model like I had to as it will show you exactly what is available for your hardware so you will not be given 13 different options for Video Drivers you'll just be shown the ones that you actually have and not all of the available Options Drivers.

    Lets know how you are getting on.

    Col

    PS in the service manual on Page 127 starting with this Heading Using the Operating System Media are the directions for installing the OS from the Supplied Media. Follow these directions with your OEM System Disc as the directions should work for that.

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    tcavadias Staff

    check it... there is no reason it shouldn't see this drive... so first thing in the morning I'm gonna try running it off its own sata controller card instead of Dell's... and while buying that..I'm gonna buy me an EIDE HD.. never know maybe it will like that one better

    For tonight though.. I'm going to give it a rest and let my mind clear.

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    If you get a SATA Controller Card you will need to get one that is compatible with the NVidia SATA Controller on the M'Board.

    The best bet would be a Promise Technology one as that should be safe with the NVidia M'Board Chip Set. A SIS Chip Set Controller Card will most likely be Incompatible with the M'Boards Chip Set and cause the system to not start.

    The easy answer here would be to use a IDE Drive as that will just work without a problem though if all the other Drives are SATA it will appear to the hardware as the C
    Drive because that is the way that Hardware works. This could introduce problems with the OS On the SATA Drives not being able to be loaded as the Hardware will have reorganized the Basic HDD layout and moved the Default C Partition away from the SATA Drive.

    I'm going to have a sleep as well as after over 36 hours I need a bit of a rest so I'll sleep on it and see what comes to mind.

    Col

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    tcavadias Staff

    to be exact - they are listed in the BIOS - one has slave and one for master.

    If I don't like this parition method route I took, I'll go that route.

    Wonder if there will be any problems with the fact Dell has the CD and the CDRW (there are two of them) set as optical drives. I remember reading something - but for the life of me can't remember what it was about optical drives you need to watch.

    -Tammy :-)

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    tcavadias Staff

    I really wanted to do this by using a different HD but figured if I had to wait until tomorrow - I'd just try doing it on a new parition. So that is what I did. I created a new parition - booted up with the Vista 32 bit CD - Installed it onthe new parition. And it is allowing me to dual boot between the two.

    Right now checking to make sure all the programs I need will run - so far they do.

    So I just may say the heck with a new HD and just keep it this way for now.

    Anyone know of any issues doing it this way I need to be aware of?

    -Tammy :-)

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    tcavadias Staff

    I'll give it a few days to ensure everything is good - Since I won't be using the 64 bit anyway - and this seems to be allowing me to boot fine into the 32 bit - all 32 bit drivers for everything have been installed - no errors after several reboots. Over-night sitting will tell the tell and a few days of running it.

    Does seem so much quicker than my old one - that is nice.

    But I did managed to fry my brand new keyboard (again) - hadn't had the thing but 2 weeks this time (thats a record) - but best buy will take it back and exhcnage it - so that is good.

    Guess I'll take my new HD back to, have to get me a monitor anyway (gonna set up my old for hubby's use - he only surgfs the net and does email - nothing fancy so it will work for him once I strip it down and leave the basics) - with that said - he'll need a monitor so since my old monitor (Dells 2405fpw) has no 64 bit drivers - (works fine on the 32 bit I'm running now) might as well get me a new monitor that will work on both 64/32 asnd give him this one. I saqw a very nice 25.5 Samsumg thast wasn't badly priced - might give that a whirl.

    Advice suggestions?

    BTW.. Thank you to everyone who hung around today while I tried to get that new hd installed - its a pita - Dell hates it

    -Tammy :-)

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    OH Smeg

    With Samsung Monitors they seem to work fine and if you like you can go the route of a 52 inch Monitor though I would imagine that using a Projector would be cheaper but it may have issues if you wanted to use it in a high light area.

    By the sounds of things what Dell is using as a RAID Driver is locking the system to just the RAID Array already fitted. I seem to remember that there was something about the RAID 0 Array Dell used not actually being RAID 0 as Dell use something slightly different. But I can not remember it I just know that there is something different about Dell's RAID 0 Array and it's not compatible with the Standard RAID 0 setup.

    With the extra HDD have you considered slipping it into a External Enclosure and using it for Data Storage? With these Stripped Arrays there is no redundancy so that when 1 drive fails it takes out the entire Array. With 2 Drives you have twice the chances of a HDD Failure from poor Workmanship being introduced.

    I was a bot surprised to hear that this new unit has a CD Drive and CD Burner as I can not buy anything but DVD Burners now. But from what you have been through with the third HDD I think that Dell need to do things this way because their RAID Setup will not allow for the use of SATA Optical Drives.

    While you can Edit the OS Names at the point where you chose which OS to boot into at thins stage I wouldn't bother as if you **** it all away it will have been a wasted effort and when you finally decide that you want to keep what you have it's no longer necessary to change things as you already know what's what but then again I'm Lazy and don't like doing more work that necessary.

    Lets know how you get on here.

    Col

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    OH Smeg

    Bung in some extra Case Fans as you need to keep the NVidia Chips cool. They currently have a Heat Issue which is directly affecting their Video Cards but as some are claiming that it is a Design Fault the problem could be spread to the entire range of NVidia Chips. Set the Alarms in BIOS to a low Heat Level and enable the Throttling back of CPU Power to the high end of the available range.

    Apparently Old Mycroft has had a problem with these Chips or maybe still is check here for a reply on this issue posted elsewhere on TR.

    http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-10879-0.html?forumID=101&threadID=274403&messageID=2600321

    Col

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    tcavadias Staff

    I checked and it appears Dell has it set that way already

    -Tammy :-)